Browse content similar to 19/12/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Join me for the highlights of both Houses of Parliament at 11pm. | :00:00. | :00:10. | |
We are committed to ensuring that we have a high-quality affordable | :00:11. | :00:16. | |
childcare that families need. We are childcare that families need. We are | :00:17. | :00:23. | |
investing record funding of ?1 billion per year, have announced a | :00:24. | :00:31. | |
fire early funding system and are providing nearly 4000 places one | :00:32. | :00:42. | |
year early. Last week I visited a very well-respected local nursery. | :00:43. | :00:43. | |
They are concerned about the level They are concerned about the level | :00:44. | :00:49. | |
of funding they will receive. Can she give us some reassurance and | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
would she like to visit the school because they would be delighted to | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
see her? I thank my honourable friend for that. I would be more | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
than happy to visit. He is right to highlight the importance of this and | :01:07. | :01:15. | |
that is why we've committed to providing these until the end of the | :01:16. | :01:23. | |
Parliament. Isn't it the case that the promise is being funded by | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
nurses and can the Secretary of nurses and can the Secretary of | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
State tell us what analysis she has undertaken of the damage that will | :01:35. | :01:40. | |
be done by the cuts she is making? It is a rather churlish comment and | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
we are investing more money in this policy than any government ever. ?6 | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
billion. He needs to be more appreciative, I think. Working | :01:53. | :01:59. | |
parents in my constituency very much welcome the 30 hours of free | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
childcare. Can the Minister set out for them, particularly those with | :02:04. | :02:08. | |
disabled children, how they will disabled children, how they will | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
make sure there is sufficient funding available to give children | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
the best start in life through that scheme. She's absolutely right. I | :02:16. | :02:22. | |
was in a nursery in new and they were already seeing a massive | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
difference this is making to working families and it is with regard to | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
children with special educational needs, there is a fund which will go | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
towards them. I hope the Minister will agree that the pupil premium | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
provides vital support to some of our most disadvantaged children and | :02:47. | :02:55. | |
we want them to know that many will not be able to care for the most | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
vulnerable children when the 30 hours is introduced so will the | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
Minister guarantee that all of the money will go to our most vulnerable | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
children and this vital resource will not be cut this Parliament? It | :03:08. | :03:15. | |
will continue and will continue to go to the most vulnerable children. | :03:16. | :03:27. | |
We are committed to making sure as many pupils as possible have a place | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
at school. The latest report shows that standards have risen compared | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
to 2010, when 1.8 million more pupils are taught in good or | :03:38. | :03:45. | |
outstanding skills, proposals are in place in the consultation. I am very | :03:46. | :03:53. | |
encouraged by the reply from the Minister. One of the issues raised | :03:54. | :04:00. | |
by them is securing school places for siblings. Will my right | :04:01. | :04:09. | |
honourable friend look at this as part of her plans? Any changes in | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
relation to the overall way that the code operates will be scrutinised by | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
this house, she will be aware that admissions for authorities are | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
responsible for setting their own admissions arrangements. But | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
actually it allows them to prioritise siblings and some | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
authorities choose to do that already. Headteachers in my | :04:29. | :04:38. | |
constituency say they are stymied by changing expectations from | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
government. Will the Secretary of State reassure her teachers in my | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
constituency that expectations will not keep changing without good | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
reason? I had a chance to visit one of the schools last week which was a | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
fantastic opportunity, they were working with Bristol University, and | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
in relation to the continued reforms, we want to make sure we see | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
improvements in classrooms and she will no doubt welcome the fact that | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
we launched the strategic school improvement fund which is about | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
making sure we can get the investment in schools that need to | :05:14. | :05:21. | |
improve quickly and effectively. Skills include technical provision | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
as a must, so does the Secretary of State agree that university | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
technical colleges play an important role in this and these should be | :05:32. | :05:37. | |
good and outstanding? We expect them to deliver high standards. I had the | :05:38. | :05:45. | |
chance to go to Didcot UTC and it was providing a fantastic education, | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
are very different one but one that worked for them in their interest. | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
It was getting very good results because of that. Thank you, Mr | :05:53. | :06:00. | |
Speaker. It is my understanding that in the last two years there were | :06:01. | :06:03. | |
over 60 schools which have been rated inadequate weir and an Academy | :06:04. | :06:12. | |
order has been issued and a sponsor yet to be identified. How does that | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
uncertainty help improve standards in those schools? We are committed | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
to making sure that when we see schools that are not achieving the | :06:22. | :06:24. | |
results that they need to for those children that we have a strong | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
approach that is steadily improving the schools and working with them to | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
approve, but where they cannot improve we want to make sure that | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
changes take place in terms of leadership and school sponsorship, | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
that means schools have got the flexibility and freedom to get | :06:41. | :06:50. | |
better. Yes. Thank you, Mr Speaker. As a former Acton residents, I'm | :06:51. | :07:04. | |
sure they will share concerns... They have a full role of students, a | :07:05. | :07:11. | |
secure site but no physical building. Can she do everything she | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
can to pressure the funding authority to find the shortfall that | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
Balfour Beatty want, because East Acton is the most deprived wards... | :07:21. | :07:28. | |
She's made her point with great force and eloquence but it does not | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
need to be made at any further point. Acton is a place I very much | :07:34. | :07:41. | |
enjoy living in and it is important we see school standards raised in | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
Acton. I will look very carefully at the particular issues she has raised | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
and perhaps write to her to find out what she can advise we do to speed | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
things up. There is a skill in my constituency, two of my children | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
attended, so do 1000 of its children, and it has been placed in | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
special measures and will become an Academy, which I support, but the | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
choice of Academy has been made and subsequently retracted pending | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
surveys on the school. The process is flawed. Would the secretary take | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
a look at this with urgency? I'm aware of this matter because he has | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
done his rule as a fantastic local MP in already raising it with me and | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
it is something we are looking at within the Department to see whether | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
we can make sure that the barriers preventing their school from getting | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
a great sponsor that can help improve it, not just for his own | :08:39. | :08:40. | |
children but all the children there, can be quickly removed. | :08:41. | :08:50. | |
Multi-Academy trusts enable the sharing of staff and expertise that | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
can help foster a truly excellent special education provision and | :08:55. | :09:03. | |
special schools can be helpful in supporting children with special | :09:04. | :09:03. | |
education needs as well as provision education needs as well as provision | :09:04. | :09:10. | |
alongside mainstream provision. Some examples can be found in the good | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
practice guidance published on the 9th of December. I was going to ask | :09:14. | :09:22. | |
him to issue further guidance when I tabled the question in December. I | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
don't think it has been issued so I'm grateful for that. I would | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
encourage him to look at special needs schools operating as special | :09:30. | :09:36. | |
needs schools because there is a difference between thousands of | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
pupils. I think the honourable gentleman is encouraged by the power | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
of his own question tabling. I expect nothing less from the | :09:48. | :09:54. | |
honourable gentleman. He raises an important issue. We continue to | :09:55. | :10:02. | |
provide guidance in this area. I would encourage any newly forming | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
organisation to get in touch. You've moved to number four. Very | :10:08. | :10:29. | |
well. I thank the Minister for meeting to discuss the contents of | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
my ten minute rule Bill to do with special needs. He mentioned the | :10:33. | :10:39. | |
arrangements were not ideal and needed some adjustment and mentioned | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
a consultation. Could he give us any more information on that? I welcome | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
a lot of sympathy for the cause he a lot of sympathy for the cause he | :10:49. | :10:57. | |
makes within it. I can commit to a consultation early in the New Year | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
and I know that he will want to contribute along with others | :11:01. | :11:08. | |
interested in this issue. Great teachers are critical to improving | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
educational outcomes. Teaching is a profession and we are supporting the | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
development of teachers including through the new leadership | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
innovation fund and the new chartered College of teaching and | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
also through investment in improving curriculum expertise and in | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
particular in maths which I saw for myself on a recent visit to China. | :11:32. | :11:38. | |
In the paper that was produced in In the paper that was produced in | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
March in 2016, there was a good proposal in that paper for a | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
national teacher vacancy website to national teacher vacancy website to | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
ensure that the cost of recruitment was kept down. What progress is | :11:52. | :11:53. | |
being made? She set out a commitment we made in | :11:54. | :12:02. | |
the March White Paper. It is going to offer a website with a free route | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
for schools to advertise teacher vacancies, but also provide teachers | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
with easier access to information about job opportunities. We have | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
worked closely with schools and teachers on testing out different | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
approaches for how to deliver that website so we can make sure it adds | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
maximum value to all schools. Whenever I meet young people in my | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
constituency, they tell me that the thing that could most affect their | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
educational outcomes is a curriculum for life and compulsory PSAT in all | :12:33. | :12:39. | |
schools. The curriculum was last updated before Facebook was even | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
invented. Teachers go unsupported and untrained. If yesterday's | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
briefings to the papers are to be believed, the government is | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
considering bringing in compulsory PSHE. Is this true, and if so, when | :12:53. | :13:01. | |
will it happen? It is urgent. I was clear in my first education select | :13:02. | :13:04. | |
committee appearance but I felt this was an area we needed to look at, | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
which is what we are doing. It is not just a question of updating the | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
guidance, it is also about the schools that it is taught in. It is | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
also about the quality of the teaching that happens as well. As | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
someone who did pure maths and applied maths as well as physics and | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
English at A-level, I am very keen mathematics teaching. I was | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
wondering, what was the Secretary of State's assessment of the recent | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
mathematics teacher exchange between the United Kingdom and China? I | :13:36. | :13:45. | |
think it has worked fantastically well so far. We have seen 131 | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
teachers from England visiting Shanghai and 127 teachers from | :13:51. | :13:53. | |
Shanghai visiting English schools. Through that exchange, our teachers | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
have observed Shanghai teaching methods. And in the 48 schools that | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
have taken part in the study, most teachers have implemented changes | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
which have led to increased enthusiasm for mathematics, | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
hopefully as strong as his was at school, deeper engagement and | :14:11. | :14:12. | |
increased confidence, but critically, higher attainment. One | :14:13. | :14:19. | |
of the best ways to support teachers in improving educational outcomes, | :14:20. | :14:22. | |
particularly for children with special needs, is through the pupil | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
premium. Will she therefore explain to the House why the level of the | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
pupil premium has been frozen at current levels through this | :14:30. | :14:35. | |
Parliament? The pupil premium was of course something that the previous | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
coalition government introduced and is continuing to be supported | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
throughout this Parliament to make sure funding goes to those children | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
who need it most. Last week, I announced the national funding | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
formula, which also prioritises resources going towards children | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
with a distant advantage. The Secretary of State will know how | :14:58. | :15:00. | |
traumatic it is for students and teachers in getting children through | :15:01. | :15:07. | |
GCSE maths and English resits, which can often blight their post-GCSE | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
students. Can we have a curriculum which is vocationally based for | :15:13. | :15:15. | |
numeracy and literacy, which will give people the skills they need for | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
work without having to go through this traumatic and often wasteful | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
experience? It is important that all children leaving our education | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
system leave with something to show for their names, particularly on | :15:27. | :15:32. | |
maths and English. That is why we brought in the GCSE resits policy. | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
For students who achieved a D and were close to being able to get to | :15:39. | :15:41. | |
the better standard, they should have another go at doing that. | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
However, the functional skills qualifications have been | :15:47. | :15:48. | |
well-received by employers and we want to look at how they can also | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
play a role in enabling all young people to show their | :15:53. | :15:59. | |
accomplishments. Grammar schools are the Prime Minister's flagship policy | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
for improving outcomes, but today the Independent is saying that | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
officials in the Department for Education have said there is no | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
chance of a new selective school before 2020. Can the Secretary of | :16:16. | :16:17. | |
State confirm how many selective schools are to be built in this | :16:18. | :16:25. | |
Parliament? The consultation finished last week. We will now look | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
at the responses to it. We have to recognise that we need an education | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
system that has more good school places, especially for children in | :16:35. | :16:37. | |
parts of the country that don't have access to them. Rather than carping | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
with no suggestions, I hope we can have a good debate now that the | :16:44. | :16:46. | |
consultation has finished and bring forward additional grammar school | :16:47. | :16:46. | |
places. The school workforce census reports | :16:47. | :17:02. | |
a constant vacancy rate of 0.2% of teachers in post. New analysis | :17:03. | :17:05. | |
published in September looks at the proportion of schools with at least | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
one vacancy. This measure has sung the Luke shown some variance since | :17:10. | :17:16. | |
2010, with London having the highest proportion of vacancies. The | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
department is also working to identify those schools experiencing | :17:20. | :17:22. | |
the greatest teacher shortages and to support them to meet those | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
challenges. Good teaching depends on retaining good teachers in the | :17:28. | :17:30. | |
profession. Does the minister not accept that the consistent | :17:31. | :17:33. | |
underfunding of schools in disadvantaged areas such as the | :17:34. | :17:36. | |
north-east makes retaining teachers difficult, and will he look again at | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
the cost adjustment element of the national funding formula that could | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
have the adverse effect of sending money away from disadvantaged areas | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
into more affluent ones? We have protected the score schools but in | :17:51. | :17:53. | |
real terms throughout this Parliament and the last. We have | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
also grasped the nettle, something the Labour government failed to do | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
while in office, of introducing fair funding. One of the elements of that | :18:02. | :18:08. | |
is in ensuring sufficient funds to tackle disadvantaged and lower | :18:09. | :18:15. | |
attainment. Schools in Somerset have great teachers, but find it hard to | :18:16. | :18:18. | |
recruit does. Does my right honourable friend agree that | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
adjusting the funding formula will help rural areas like mine attract | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
and retain excellent teachers? My honourable friend is right. Areas | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
around the country have been underfunded for many years. We have | :18:34. | :18:40. | |
been the first government that has grasped this nettle introducing a | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
much fairer national funding formula that will deal with these historic, | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
and anachronistic and unfair national funding formulas. Regarding | :18:50. | :18:58. | |
the proposed funding formula last week, can I ask the minister how it | :18:59. | :19:01. | |
helps recruit and retain teachers when all but one of the schools in | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
my constituency will lose money under the funding formula? The | :19:07. | :19:13. | |
national funding formula has been introduced to ensure that we have a | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
fair funding system. We are consulting on that system over the | :19:19. | :19:21. | |
next 40 weeks, and I am sure the honourable gentleman will send him | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
his representations. If an outstanding academy in the New | :19:28. | :19:33. | |
Forest, minutes from the seaside, is having difficulty recruiting an | :19:34. | :19:35. | |
English teacher, what hope is there for anywhere else? My honourable | :19:36. | :19:44. | |
friend raises an important point. The national funding formula will | :19:45. | :19:47. | |
help schools have the resources to enable them to use the discretion we | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
have given schools in how they reward teachers, particularly in | :19:53. | :19:54. | |
those subjects where they find it difficult to recruit. Can I take | :19:55. | :20:07. | |
this opportunity to wish the House well. The Association of schools and | :20:08. | :20:14. | |
college leaders have found that opening up new grammars may worsen | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
new teacher recruitment is. Doesn't he think the priority should be | :20:20. | :20:21. | |
incentivising teacher recruitment and retention, rather than taking | :20:22. | :20:27. | |
the retrograde step of providing new armers that will do nothing for new | :20:28. | :20:37. | |
pupils and parents? We are prioritising teacher recruitment. We | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
met 94% of our target last year and 93% this year. We are recruiting | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
more teachers in science than before. She should look at the | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
number of teachers coming into teacher training, and acknowledge | :20:51. | :20:54. | |
the fact that there are 456,000 teachers in our schools today, an | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
all-time high, and there are 50,000 more teachers today than in 2010. | :21:00. | :21:10. | |
May I take the opportunity to thank the honourable gentleman for the | :21:11. | :21:17. | |
work he does for education. Helping all young people to get the careers | :21:18. | :21:20. | |
education and guidance they need is crucial to delivering social | :21:21. | :21:27. | |
mobility. That is why we are investing ?90 million over the | :21:28. | :21:29. | |
parliament to ensure that every young person has access to advice | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
and inspiration to fulfil their potential. This includes further | :21:34. | :21:36. | |
funding for the careers and enterprise company to continue the | :21:37. | :21:42. | |
excellent work it has started, including 1 million for the first | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
six opportunity areas. The all-party group for education is conducting an | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
inquiry into how we prepare children for their future careers. It seems | :21:52. | :21:58. | |
to be not just the academic, but also the soft skills. Does the | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
government feel that it is doing that ably enough, and would you | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
attend the launch of our document when it is produced on the 7th of | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
February? The honourable gentleman makes an important point. Not enough | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
schools are encouraging their children to do not just soft skills, | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
but all skills and technical education and apprenticeships. We | :22:26. | :22:28. | |
have worked to change that and make sure schools talk about | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
apprenticeships and skills when they give careers advice. We are | :22:33. | :22:35. | |
investing millions in the careers enterprise company, which is going | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
to look after 250,000 students in areas of the country that have least | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
careers provision. In terms of the event that the honourable gentleman | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
has asked me to, I will do my best. I have to obviously check the diary. | :22:52. | :22:58. | |
The junction of the careers and enterprise company will do a great | :22:59. | :23:01. | |
deal to improve careers advice among secondary school students. But to | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
encourage more girls into a science career, we have to start earlier in | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
primary schools. Can the minister confirmed that increasing diversity | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
in the careers that leads to greater productivity will form a central | :23:15. | :23:20. | |
part of the Stem related strategies? Again, my honourable friend is | :23:21. | :23:26. | |
right. We need to do everything was able to ensure that young people do | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
the empty macro subjects are encouraged into doing so -- the Stem | :23:31. | :23:36. | |
subjects. That is why we are encouraging apprenticeships. It is | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
why the get up and go campaign focuses on Stem subjects and | :23:41. | :23:43. | |
encouraging more women to do the skills we need. I am glad to hear of | :23:44. | :23:51. | |
the minister's support for young people studying Stem subjects. Does | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
he share my disappointment that the GCSE in environmental science has | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
now been discontinued? There are alternative qualifications. I would | :24:04. | :24:06. | |
also add that we are creating a state-of-the-art technical education | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
system with 15 different pathways, which will have important technical | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
routes and qualifications that will have the prestige and give employers | :24:17. | :24:23. | |
the qualifications that they need. The minister knows that university | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
technical colleges can be a fantastic route into | :24:28. | :24:29. | |
apprenticeships, degrees and jobs. The proposed Gloucestershire health | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
university technical College will be a magnificent example of this, but | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
with the minister to the chamber when the delayed deadline for UCT | :24:39. | :24:47. | |
applications will be announced? My honourable friend is right to | :24:48. | :24:50. | |
highlight the importance of UCT and here's a champion of apprentices and | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
skills in his constituency since he has been elected. I will speak to my | :24:56. | :24:58. | |
honourable friend the UCT minister about question he raises. Question | :24:59. | :25:15. | |
number seven, Mr Speaker. Following the EU referendum on the 23rd of | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
June, we are considering all aspects of how the vote of the people of the | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
United Kingdom to leave the EU might impact on further education | :25:26. | :25:28. | |
institutions. This includes consideration of institutions' | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
access to EU funding sources. We are committed to ensuring that the FE | :25:33. | :25:35. | |
sector remains effective in delivering learning that provides | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
individuals with the skills the economy needs for growth. The | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
Chancellor of the Exchequer committed to stability in the period | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
leading up to departure from the EU. Further institutions in Glasgow need | :25:49. | :26:00. | |
a certainty in this scenario, including those who have benefited | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
from European social fund to the tune of ?1.5 million this year | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
alone. Brexit is not a circumstance of Glasgow's choosing. Will the | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
government commit to abandon the empty "Brexit means Brexit" rhetoric | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
and publish detailed plans on Sunday? I say to the honourable lady | :26:19. | :26:26. | |
that leaving the European Union means that we all want to take our | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
own decisions about how to deliver the policy objectives previously | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
targeted by EU funding. The government is consulting closely | :26:36. | :26:38. | |
with stakeholders to review all EU funding schemes to ensure that any | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
ongoing funding commitments best serve the UK's national interest, | :26:44. | :26:46. | |
while ensuring appropriate certainty. | :26:47. | :26:54. | |
You are not be sensible for the government to commit simply | :26:55. | :27:01. | |
replacing EU funding with UK funding, keeping everyone happy? My | :27:02. | :27:11. | |
honourable friend makes an important point. The government of the UK will | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
decide how best to spend the money that was previously going to the | :27:17. | :27:25. | |
European Union. Colleges Scotland have received 250 million in EU | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
funding to fund capital projects. Given it was this government who | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
gambled away Scotland's membership, what is the likelihood of this | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
government replacing this type of vital funding in the years ahead. I | :27:40. | :27:53. | |
find it interesting that the party's position is to campaign for more | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
powers to go from Westminster to Scotland and yet they would like | :27:57. | :28:02. | |
funding decisions decided in the EU than in Scotland. Having said that | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
she will know the Chancellor has announced the Treasury will | :28:07. | :28:12. | |
guarantee investment bids which are signed before the UK leaves the EU | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
including funding for projects agreed after the Autumn Statement if | :28:18. | :28:20. | |
they represent good value for money and if they are aligned with the | :28:21. | :28:23. | |
continue beyond the departure from continue beyond the departure from | :28:24. | :28:31. | |
the EU. We know that our further education colleges benefit hugely | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
from European social funds. The government told me in February that | :28:36. | :28:43. | |
the funding agency had ?725 million and 120 million went to colleges | :28:44. | :28:52. | |
from funding, it guarantees jobs and skills. Can the Minister guarantee | :28:53. | :28:55. | |
that government will replace this after Brexit and F E colleges, which | :28:56. | :29:04. | |
provide courses and get the same guarantee as universities? Thank | :29:05. | :29:12. | |
you, Mr Speaker, I had hoped in the spirit of Christmas the honourable | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
gentleman might have welcomed the 900,000 apprenticeship | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
participation, the highest in our island's history. The access to | :29:23. | :29:29. | |
European funding is one aspect of business that is impacted by the | :29:30. | :29:32. | |
decision to leave the European Union and we are considering all aspects | :29:33. | :29:38. | |
of how colleges may be affected but it is worth noting that by 2020 the | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
adult budget will be the highest in the nation's history if you include | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
apprenticeships. All this getting up is good | :29:48. | :30:06. | |
preparation for Christmas. If he knows he has the next question he is | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
very welcome to remain standing at the box, nobody would think there is | :30:12. | :30:14. | |
anything disorderly or unreasonable about that. Thank you, it is good | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
for the calories in advance of Christmas. | :30:20. | :30:32. | |
We are making over 60 million support apprenticeship take-up from | :30:33. | :30:42. | |
disadvantaged areas. Our campaign aims to get more young people to | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
apply for an apprenticeship. We are increasing the number of | :30:48. | :30:53. | |
traineeships. What measures is he putting in place to overcome | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
barriers to accessing apprenticeships and for ensuring a | :30:59. | :31:06. | |
good promotion of them by schools? I thank my honourable friend for this | :31:07. | :31:11. | |
question. We are putting 60 million in deprived areas to encourage | :31:12. | :31:18. | |
trainers to have that. We are putting a lot of funding into | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
helping 16-18 -year-olds, supporting businesses and providers. We are | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
supporting health and social care apprenticeships if they have a plan | :31:29. | :31:41. | |
from the local authority. We're giving 12 million to the fund. This | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
government is committed to ensuring most young people can do | :31:47. | :31:53. | |
apprenticeships. From next April, many schools will pave the | :31:54. | :31:59. | |
apprenticeship levy, and other cost. That is an additional cost of | :32:00. | :32:02. | |
?15,000. Will the Minister agreed to meet with me and another member and | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
concerned headteachers to discuss the impact of the levy on schools | :32:08. | :32:16. | |
and academies. I'm very happy to meet with the honourable lady but | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
the whole purpose of the levy is to change behaviours and ensure we | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
become an apprenticeship and skilled nation. If the schools have the | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
needs of their levy then not only will they not pay any levy but they | :32:30. | :32:38. | |
will get 10% on top. Small businesses often give the best | :32:39. | :32:41. | |
experience to an apprentice but lack the resources to support them. What | :32:42. | :32:47. | |
steps is the Minister taking to encourage small businesses to take | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
on apprentices? I know that the honourable friend is a champion of | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
small businesses in his constituency. We are doing huge | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
amounts to encourage small businesses to take on young | :33:03. | :33:05. | |
apprentices, huge financial incentives for the providers and the | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
businesses, small businesses have to pay no training cost at all if they | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
have 16-18 -year-olds. We have cut national insurance for | :33:15. | :33:21. | |
apprenticeships up to the age of 25. The scheme must be better publicised | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
in our high schools and primary schools to encourage those who don't | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
feel comfortable in academia to understand there are options | :33:30. | :33:31. | |
available to them. Could the Minister specified how the | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
Department plans to implement any such system in schools? As so often, | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
the honourable gentleman makes a the honourable gentleman makes a | :33:42. | :33:44. | |
good point. When I go around the country, again and again, | :33:45. | :33:47. | |
apprentices have not been encouraged by their schools to do this and we | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
are looking at how to ensure that careers encourage them. We are | :33:53. | :34:02. | |
investing ?90 million in careers, they have many advisers, getting | :34:03. | :34:13. | |
kids to do work experience. We are committed to tackling inequalities | :34:14. | :34:20. | |
so that all pupils can fulfil their potential. We welcome the | :34:21. | :34:27. | |
contribution, including the benefits of an academic curriculum. The | :34:28. | :34:40. | |
northern powerhouse challenge as well funded as the London challenge | :34:41. | :34:48. | |
was funded with the very welcome, for schools such as one outstanding | :34:49. | :34:55. | |
school in my constituency. What support will be available to schools | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
like that already doing their very best in very disadvantaged areas? | :35:00. | :35:09. | |
There is an achievement gap which is why in March 2016 the Chancellor | :35:10. | :35:17. | |
announced ?20 million of new funding to support a northern powerhouse | :35:18. | :35:27. | |
strategy. Old Trafford is the best performing in North England but one | :35:28. | :35:30. | |
of the worst funded authorities. I'm sure he can imagine the concern that | :35:31. | :35:35. | |
the draft funding formula produced last week would lead to all | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
secondary schools being worse off and the number of primary schools | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
being worse off. Can I ask him to look as a matter of urgency at the | :35:46. | :35:48. | |
nature of the funding formula to ensure fairness to the | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
which have been underfunded? They which have been underfunded? They | :35:53. | :36:02. | |
will see gains, some ?210 million, but in Trafford there is a loss of | :36:03. | :36:11. | |
0.4%. The current formula under funds primary is computed | :36:12. | :36:11. | |
secondaries. Under the proposed national funding | :36:12. | :36:26. | |
formula, the secondaries will lose but the primaries will game. The | :36:27. | :36:35. | |
education policy found that there are no better standards in local | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
authorities so why is expanding trust is key to driving up | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
standards? Is it because he is very well paid by an academy trust and is | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
there perchance any evidence? He is experienced in running a very | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
successful one. Sponsored academies do increase more rapidly. One of the | :36:56. | :37:09. | |
causes identified is the challenge of teacher supply. Does my | :37:10. | :37:12. | |
honourable friend agree with me that one way of improving that will be to | :37:13. | :37:19. | |
recruit more members from the former members of the Armed Forces into the | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
teaching profession? I do agree and we have a scheme that does just | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
that, and as the years go by it is recruiting increasing numbers, small | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
numbers but increasing numbers of highly qualified but experienced | :37:32. | :37:42. | |
ex-military personnel. Thank you, Mr Speaker, we've not permanently | :37:43. | :37:45. | |
closed any academies within three years of their conversion, but we've | :37:46. | :37:57. | |
re-brokered them. If no school has been closed within three years of | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
such conversion and now Academy closed solely as a result of a bad | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
Ofsted report and there is no reliable estimate of the cost or the | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
availability of alternate places and future demand and the real travel | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
alternative schools, how does the alternative schools, how does the | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
government justified reneging on their promise to the pupils and | :38:20. | :38:26. | |
parents to rescue an Academy in my constituency rather than close the | :38:27. | :38:35. | |
school? No decision has been taken yet on the future of this academy | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
but ministers are going to consider all options and the view of parents | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
in the community before reaching a final decision. They will ensure | :38:44. | :38:57. | |
that they get good access. Increasing this for pupils underpins | :38:58. | :39:03. | |
our commitment to making sure our country works for everyone and in | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
the pupil premium we are narrowing the gap between disadvantaged pupils | :39:08. | :39:10. | |
and their peers and indeed, this can be seen in the primary school in | :39:11. | :39:17. | |
Enfield which I want to congratulate for its excellent work on pupil | :39:18. | :39:28. | |
premium. Thank you for the response. On the response from my right | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
honourable friend for Harlow, given the school's link with local | :39:35. | :39:38. | |
employers, they have let their most vulnerable. Can I commend the | :39:39. | :39:42. | |
Secretary of State for the good example of the TEFL steps in to work | :39:43. | :39:45. | |
programme which is bucking the national trend. It is something I do | :39:46. | :40:02. | |
commend. We're working with it to strengthen links between employers | :40:03. | :40:13. | |
and schools when you get a close relationship, especially for those | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
with learning difficulties, it can make a great difference. There is a | :40:19. | :40:25. | |
serious problem here in terms of disadvantaged young people, clever | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
and bright at the age of 11, then lose them, they fail in secondary. | :40:31. | :40:37. | |
Is she further aware, though she is reluctant to answer the question, | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
how many young people from disadvantaged backgrounds are locked | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
into the further education system unable to get their GCSEs in maths | :40:46. | :40:46. | |
and English? When is she going to do and English? When is she going to do | :40:47. | :41:00. | |
something about it? We've seen the attainment gap getting lower between | :41:01. | :41:07. | |
disadvantaged young people and those who start off from better | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
backgrounds. We put resources into the system. Further education is one | :41:12. | :41:19. | |
of our key aims across the Parliament to make sure it delivers | :41:20. | :41:22. | |
the same gold standard. The House will know that the | :41:23. | :41:39. | |
Secretary of State failed to commit to building a school in this | :41:40. | :41:46. | |
Parliament. Today, the policy Institute have released evidence | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
showing you cannot future proof and 11 plus test. Does she agree with me | :41:52. | :41:53. | |
that selection at 11 will favour that selection at 11 will favour | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
families that can afford it and do nothing to improve the educational | :41:58. | :42:00. | |
outcomes of the most disadvantaged pupils? | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
I disagree. As usual, from the opposition, we have had criticism | :42:06. | :42:13. | |
but no alternative policies whatsoever, and a continued failure | :42:14. | :42:15. | |
by the opposition to set out whether it would close existing grammars. At | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
some stage, it would be fantastic to get clarity on Labour Party policy. | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
We want to see more good school places for children, particularly | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
disadvantaged children, and we know the disadvantaged children on free | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
school meals who get into grammar schools see the attainment gap | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
closed by the time they leave. The new national curriculum that came | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
into force in September 2014 expects every pupil to know the | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
multiplication tables to 12 times 12 by the end of year four. We have | :42:49. | :42:54. | |
strengthened our primary maths assessment to prioritise fluency in | :42:55. | :42:57. | |
written calculation and we have removed the use of calculators from | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
key stage two tests. We have not made an assessment of the proportion | :43:02. | :43:04. | |
of children in Northamptonshire or England who know the multiplication | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
tables by heart, but we plan to intend a multiplication tables check | :43:10. | :43:11. | |
for primary school pupils in England to ensure that every child leaves | :43:12. | :43:15. | |
primary school fluent in that times tables up to and including 12 times | :43:16. | :43:22. | |
12. Which my friend madrasas is 144. We are all much better informed! | :43:23. | :43:29. | |
Would my honourable friend agree that learning your times tables is | :43:30. | :43:32. | |
essential for success and maths, and what is the government's official | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
view to the best way in which times tables should be taught and learnt? | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
We don't have an official way of how this is taught, but we do expect | :43:42. | :43:44. | |
every child to know their tables. The reason it is until year four is | :43:45. | :43:50. | |
so that children can recall the times tables automatically so that | :43:51. | :43:53. | |
they can then tackle long multiplication and long division. We | :43:54. | :44:00. | |
want all pupils to be healthy and active and have the opportunity to | :44:01. | :44:04. | |
engage in sport and physical activity. That is why PE remains a | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
compulsory subject at all four key stages in the national curriculum | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
and since 2013, we have given ?600 million to primary schools to | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
include the quality of PE provision, with that doubling from 2017. Given | :44:19. | :44:25. | |
the urgent need to tackle child obesity and physical inactivity, can | :44:26. | :44:27. | |
my right honourable friend tell the House what steps he is taking to | :44:28. | :44:33. | |
work with organisations such as the UK active outdoor industry | :44:34. | :44:36. | |
Association as well as local organisations like active Cheshire | :44:37. | :44:39. | |
to follow the example of the school where my daughter goes to take | :44:40. | :44:45. | |
forward more daily initiatives? As a fellow Cheshire MP, I am aware of | :44:46. | :44:48. | |
the excellent work done by local schools and local groups in | :44:49. | :44:55. | |
partnerships. We welcome initiatives such as the daily mile. They help | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
teachers have the autonomy to make good decisions on behalf of their | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
pupils to have an array of excellent initiatives, and we continue to | :45:04. | :45:09. | |
promote those. The minister is too modest in declining to take the | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
opportunity to say that he has himself over many years led by | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
example to his repeated and impressive marathon running, with | :45:17. | :45:19. | |
which the whole House by now should be familiar. Physical activities are | :45:20. | :45:25. | |
important to equip the next generation with the skills to | :45:26. | :45:28. | |
contend with both their physical health and the mental health. But | :45:29. | :45:33. | |
alone, it will not content with our nation's obesity crisis. We know | :45:34. | :45:36. | |
from the child measurement figures how challenging this is for our | :45:37. | :45:42. | |
country. Will his government be bringing forward compulsory PSHE so | :45:43. | :45:45. | |
we can equip the next generation with the knowledge and skills to | :45:46. | :45:48. | |
know what they should be eating as well as what physical activities | :45:49. | :45:52. | |
they should be doing? I have already told the House that PE is compulsory | :45:53. | :45:57. | |
at all four key stages. The Secretary of State has set out the | :45:58. | :46:01. | |
need to improve the access and quality of PSHE, and that is | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
something we are looking forward to. I will be taking part in the London | :46:07. | :46:09. | |
Marathon again next year to continue my efforts to lead by example. The | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
honourable gentleman is genuinely a hero! Topical questions, Mr Nigel | :46:14. | :46:24. | |
Huddlestone. If I can just wish everybody a happy Christmas in the | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
House as well. Mr Speaker, the latest stab figures show that there | :46:30. | :46:36. | |
are near Ely 1.8 million -- there are nearly 1.8 million children | :46:37. | :46:39. | |
being taught in outstanding schools than in 2010. Our consultation has | :46:40. | :46:42. | |
ended and we look forward to responding to that in due course. In | :46:43. | :46:48. | |
the past few weeks, we have announced ?114 million for the | :46:49. | :46:51. | |
strategic school improvement fund and have published the next age of | :46:52. | :46:55. | |
consultation on our national fairer funding formula for schools across | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
England, which will finally bring an end to the historic postcode lottery | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
of school funding. I also saw the excellent teacher exchange programme | :47:05. | :47:07. | |
in Shanghai, China, earlier this month, as well as visiting many | :47:08. | :47:13. | |
great schools in our own country. Team GB gave an incredible | :47:14. | :47:17. | |
performance that this year's Rio Olympic Games, bringing home 67 | :47:18. | :47:21. | |
medals. One third of those medal winners went to private schools | :47:22. | :47:25. | |
compared to 7% of the population as a whole. What else is the government | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
doing to encourage greater participation in sport in our state | :47:31. | :47:36. | |
schools? Since 2013, we have provided over ?600 million to | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
primary schools through the primary PE and sport premium, which is | :47:41. | :47:47. | |
making a difference. In independent research, schools reported an 84% | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
increase in participation in extracurricular activities. We know | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
there is more to do, and that is why we have doubled a premium to ?320 | :47:57. | :48:03. | |
million a year from autumn 2017. I would also like to wish the | :48:04. | :48:06. | |
Secretary of State a Merry Christmas and all the members of the House, | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
but it ain't going to be a Merry Christmas for our schools. The | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
recent government consultation says there will be a floor on schools | :48:15. | :48:17. | |
funding so that no school would lose more than 3% of their funding per | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
pupil as a result of changes to the funding formula. Some schools face | :48:23. | :48:29. | |
to severe cuts to manage. But only has the National Audit Office show | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
that schools are facing funding cuts of 8% per pupil, they have | :48:34. | :48:36. | |
criticised her department for failing to make the scale of the | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
coming cuts clear. The Secretary of State has two choices. Order. I am | :48:41. | :48:45. | |
sorry. If we are going to have a right for the opposition front bench | :48:46. | :48:50. | |
to come in on topical is, and I make this clear with immediate effect, it | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
must be done briefly, otherwise it is completely absorbing the time for | :48:55. | :48:58. | |
backbenchers. A single sentence from the honourable lady will suffice. | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
Sorry, Mr Speaker. Will she cut the funding in 2020 or will she issue | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
guidance to schools on what those cuts will be? We are consulting on | :49:09. | :49:14. | |
proposals for a new national funding for here. Everybody accepts the | :49:15. | :49:18. | |
current system is unfair, transparent and out of date and it | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
doesn't support our aspiration for all children to reach their | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
potential to succeed in adult life. There is little or no justification | :49:28. | :49:32. | |
for the differences that local schools get at the moment. The | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
consultation is now under way. I have no doubt that honourable | :49:36. | :49:38. | |
members across the House will want to respond. The former Chancellor | :49:39. | :49:46. | |
was the most recent senior Conservative to say that the Prime | :49:47. | :49:49. | |
Minister's plans to include international students in migration | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
figures were not sensible. Will the Secretary of State join us and | :49:54. | :49:55. | |
commit to doing everything she can to reverse this foolish policy and | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
ensure that students are removed from the migration statistics? We | :50:00. | :50:06. | |
value the significant contribution that international students make to | :50:07. | :50:10. | |
our universities. We have no plans to introduce a cap on and take. As | :50:11. | :50:14. | |
the Secretary of State recently announced, we will shortly be | :50:15. | :50:18. | |
seeking views on the study immigration root of all parties | :50:19. | :50:20. | |
including the opposition should ensure their point of view is heard. | :50:21. | :50:25. | |
Getting it right early on is crucially important for life | :50:26. | :50:31. | |
chances. Corby provides flagship nursery provision and early | :50:32. | :50:34. | |
intervention provision which local families appreciate and value. With | :50:35. | :50:40. | |
the minister be willing to visit to discuss how the funding reforms can | :50:41. | :50:44. | |
best support this provision going forward? We all know that maintained | :50:45. | :50:51. | |
nursery schools are a small but important part of the early years | :50:52. | :50:55. | |
sector, providing high quality child care and education, often in | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
disadvantaged areas. They have a potentially important role in | :51:01. | :51:03. | |
shaping best practice with other providers in their area, and I would | :51:04. | :51:06. | |
be happy to meet my honourable friend and other representatives to | :51:07. | :51:11. | |
discuss this further. Does that Secretary of State acknowledge that | :51:12. | :51:14. | |
many schools including the primary school in the most deprived part of | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
my constituency which contacted me on Wednesday are struggling | :51:19. | :51:21. | |
financially as a result of amongst other things, the overhead is being | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
heaped on them. It is children with special educational needs who are | :51:26. | :51:28. | |
likely to suffer most from the financial squeeze. In fact, under | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
the national funding formula that we announced last week to stop the | :51:35. | :51:38. | |
consultation on in relation to high needs, there will be no local areas | :51:39. | :51:44. | |
losing. And we will be able to do not only that, but also ensure that | :51:45. | :51:47. | |
those areas that need to gain who have been underfunded will be able | :51:48. | :51:53. | |
to gain up to 3% over 2018-19 and 2019-20. Following the publication | :51:54. | :52:02. | |
of the key stage two results on Thursday, the national average pass | :52:03. | :52:08. | |
rate was 54%. The Lancashire pass rate was 54%, but the pass rate in | :52:09. | :52:12. | |
my constituency was 47%. What steps is this Parliament taking towards | :52:13. | :52:19. | |
best practice for schools like those in my constituency and what can she | :52:20. | :52:23. | |
do to help schools that are underperforming? I share my | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
honourable friend's concern. We want all schools to use evidence -based | :52:29. | :52:34. | |
teaching and to help spread effective practice. We have | :52:35. | :52:37. | |
established a national network of teaching schools as well as school | :52:38. | :52:43. | |
partnerships led by schools that excel in the teaching of maths, | :52:44. | :52:46. | |
phonics and science. International students are vital to an economy and | :52:47. | :52:52. | |
contribute ?7 billion to universities in the UK. Can the | :52:53. | :52:55. | |
Secretary of State confirm whether or not the government plans to use | :52:56. | :52:57. | |
the new teaching and excellence framework to link student visas to | :52:58. | :53:02. | |
the quality of an institution as a means of cutting immigration? No | :53:03. | :53:09. | |
decision has been taken as to the best way to differentiate in order | :53:10. | :53:15. | |
to allow our best institutions to continue to attract international | :53:16. | :53:18. | |
students at this stage. The Home Secretary has indicated that she | :53:19. | :53:22. | |
will be starting a consultation in the new year. All parties are | :53:23. | :53:28. | |
encouraged to contribute to that. Recognising the mental health | :53:29. | :53:30. | |
challenges faced by an increasing number of young people, can my right | :53:31. | :53:33. | |
honourable friend to the House what steps she is taking to work with | :53:34. | :53:38. | |
bodies such as young minds and the NSPCC to help young people and their | :53:39. | :53:42. | |
parents tackle self harming, which is blighting the lives of too many | :53:43. | :53:48. | |
children? Every child and young person should be able to enjoy good | :53:49. | :53:52. | |
mental health and well-being. My honourable friend is right to raise | :53:53. | :53:58. | |
serious concerns about self harm. We are working with the Department of | :53:59. | :54:00. | |
Health to tackle it by funding guidance for schools on teaching | :54:01. | :54:06. | |
about self-harm and pointing parents towards the Mind portal and the | :54:07. | :54:12. | |
invaluable NSPCC ChildLine, but we know there is more to do. The 80 | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
sector in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland supported SNP | :54:18. | :54:22. | |
amendments to the higher education Bill on UK research and innovation. | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
Can the Secretary of State tell us if she plans to look at this issue | :54:27. | :54:30. | |
again, or is she happy to ignore the HE voices within the devolved | :54:31. | :54:37. | |
nations? The honourable gentleman will have seen the amendment | :54:38. | :54:40. | |
ensuring that there will be at least one member of the UK border with | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
experience of the excellent research that goes on in at least one of our | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
devolved administrations. Universities like Sunderland do a | :54:50. | :54:54. | |
fantastic job supporting part-time and mature students into higher | :54:55. | :54:57. | |
education. Ministers claim to support this, so why in the Autumn | :54:58. | :55:01. | |
Statement was funding for widening participation cut by 50%? The | :55:02. | :55:07. | |
honourable lady will be encouraged to see that spending on access | :55:08. | :55:13. | |
agreements will increase to over ?800 million in the next financial | :55:14. | :55:19. | |
year, up from ?400 million when this last coalition government came into | :55:20. | :55:23. | |
office, almost doubling the amount being spent on this important area. | :55:24. | :55:29. | |
The Secretary of State will remember the historic and ongoing problems | :55:30. | :55:32. | |
with flooding in Tipton St John primary school. Will she ever | :55:33. | :55:37. | |
announce an early Christmas present for the people of Tipton St John by | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
announcing that her department is going to contribute to the funding | :55:42. | :55:47. | |
solution to relocate the school to Ottery St Mary? Following his | :55:48. | :55:50. | |
meeting on the top of October with my right honourable friend the | :55:51. | :55:53. | |
Secretary of State and representatives from the county to | :55:54. | :55:57. | |
consider plans to relocate the school, a feasibility study was | :55:58. | :56:01. | |
submitted to the educational funding agency. Officials have reviewed the | :56:02. | :56:06. | |
report and have been in dialogue with Devon County Council to address | :56:07. | :56:10. | |
outstanding issues. Once those are resolved, a decision can be taken | :56:11. | :56:13. | |
about whether a central funding contribution can be made and whether | :56:14. | :56:14. | |
he will have a Christmas present. What contingency plans does the | :56:15. | :56:31. | |
Minister has showed a source of recruitment for EU teachers | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
diminish. As I said earlier the government welcomes the contribution | :56:37. | :56:41. | |
EU students and international students make to higher education | :56:42. | :56:44. | |
institutions and there is no plan to introduce a cap on that number. We | :56:45. | :56:52. | |
continue to welcome EU students. Superb schools across my | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
constituency based a double financial whammy of being both rural | :56:57. | :56:59. | |
and small. Under new funding formula is only eight schools will get | :57:00. | :57:05. | |
another blip. Could the minister look again at school is not hitting | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
the traditional markers of deprivation? -- get an uplift. We | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
have a consultation on introducing a national funding formula. We have | :57:17. | :57:18. | |
tried to make sure there are factors affecting schools in more remote | :57:19. | :57:25. | |
locations but also where they have higher cost bases under the | :57:26. | :57:28. | |
additional costs allowance to reflect that as well. This is a | :57:29. | :57:34. | |
consultation and I'm sure she will want to have input into this. Last | :57:35. | :57:40. | |
Tuesday was in 2000 people filled the Royal concert Hall in Nottingham | :57:41. | :57:43. | |
to hear hundreds of schoolchildren singing and playing together in the | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
Nottingham music service Christmas in the city concert. The opportunity | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
to learn to play music is very important in building confidence and | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
enjoyment of school and will she visit Nottingham music service to | :57:59. | :58:01. | |
hear more of the wonderful work but they are doing in our city schools | :58:02. | :58:05. | |
were more than 8000 students are learning to play a musical | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
instrument? ?300 million has been announced for music and the arts. I | :58:11. | :58:17. | |
recognise how important music is and I hope those children will get the | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
benefit of the ongoing investment this government is now putting in. | :58:22. | :58:32. | |
Willmore pupils be able to take up places in grammar schools? Once we | :58:33. | :58:35. | |
have got through the response to consultation and had the chance to | :58:36. | :58:38. | |
change the law hopefully preventing grammar schools from being opened, I | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
hope we will be able to make progress on this. And finally, Fiona | :58:43. | :58:50. | |
McTaggart. Headteachers will be grateful to the Minister for meeting | :58:51. | :58:56. | |
with them to discuss teacher shortages but unfortunately, I have | :58:57. | :59:00. | |
reminded him twice since then about the fact that they have not received | :59:01. | :59:04. | |
the letter he promised at that meeting. Can I expect that before | :59:05. | :59:10. | |
Christmas? I will do my utmost to ensure they receive a letter and I | :59:11. | :59:14. | |
enjoyed reading them, they raised important points, but we are | :59:15. | :59:19. | |
ensuring that we are filling teacher training places and there are more | :59:20. | :59:23. | |
teachers now in the system than last year. Statement. The Prime Minister. | :59:24. | :59:36. | |
Thank you Mr Speaker and with permission I would like to make a | :59:37. | :59:42. | |
statement on last week's European Council. Both the UK and the rest of | :59:43. | :59:46. | |
the EU are preparing for the negotiations that will begin when we | :59:47. | :59:50. | |
trigger Article 50 before the end of March next year. The main focus of | :59:51. | :59:54. | |
this council was rightly on how we can work together to address some of | :59:55. | :59:57. | |
the most pressing challenges we face. These include responding to | :59:58. | :00:03. | |
the migration crisis, strengthening Europe's security and helping | :00:04. | :00:06. | |
alleviate the suffering in Syria. As I have said | :00:07. | :00:20. | |
for as long as the UK is a member of the EU we will continue to play our | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
full part. And that is what this council show. With the UK making a | :00:26. | :00:27. | |
significant contribution on each of the issues. First migration, from | :00:28. | :00:30. | |
the outset the UK has pushed for a conference of approach that focuses | :00:31. | :00:32. | |
on the root causes of migration is the best way to reduce the number of | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
people coming to Europe. I've called for action in transit countries and | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
source countries to destruct smuggling what works, improve local | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
capacity to control borders and support sustainable livelihoods both | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
for people living there and refugees. And we must better | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
distinguish between economic migrants and refugees, swiftly | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
returning those who have no right to remain and thereby sending out a | :00:54. | :00:55. | |
deterrence message to others thinking of embarking on a perilous | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
journey. The council agreed to action in all these areas and the UK | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
remains fully committed to playing our part. We have already provided | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
training to the Libyan coast guard, the Royal Navy is providing | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
practical support in the Mediterranean and Aegean Sea and we | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
will deploy 40 additional staff to the Greek islands to accelerate the | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
processing of claims especially from Iraqi, Afghan and Eritrean nationals | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
and help return those who have no right to stay. Ultimately we do need | :01:26. | :01:28. | |
a long-term sustainable approach and that is the best way to obtain the | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
consent of our people to provide support and sanctuary to those most | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
in need. Turning to security and defence, whether deterring Russian | :01:40. | :01:42. | |
aggression, countering terrorism or fighting organised crime, the UK is | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
firmly committed to the security of our European neighbours. That is | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
true now and will remain true once we've left the EU. At this council | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
will welcome the commitment from all member states to take greater | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
responsibility for their security, invest more resources and develop | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
more capabilities. That is the right approach. And as the council made | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
clear, it should be done in a way that complements rather than | :02:08. | :02:12. | |
duplicates Nato. A stronger EU and the stronger Nato can be mutually | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
reinforcing and this should be our aim. We must never lose sight of the | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
fact that Nato will always be the bedrock of our collective defence in | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
Europe. But we must never to undermine that. We also agreed at | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
the council to renew Tier three economic sanctions on Russia for a | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
further six months, maintaining pressure on Russia to implement the | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
Minsk agreement in full. Turning to the appalling situation in Syria, we | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
have all seen the devastating pictures on our television screens | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
and heard heartbreaking stories of families struggling to get to | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
safety. At this council we heard directly from the Mayor of East | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
Aleppo, a brave and courageous man who already has witnessed his city | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
brought to rubble. His neighbours murdered and lives of children | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
destroyed. He had a simple plea, to get those that have survived through | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
years of conflict, torture and fear, to safety. | :03:08. | :03:37. | |
Together with our European partners we must do all we can to help. The | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
council was unequivocal in its condemnation of President Assad and | :03:42. | :03:43. | |
his backers, Russia and Iran. Who must bear the responsibility for the | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
tragedy in Aleppo. They must now allow the UN to evacuate safely the | :03:47. | :03:48. | |
innocent people of Aleppo, Syria and Sue President Assad claims to | :03:49. | :03:50. | |
represent. We've seen some progress in recent days but a few | :03:51. | :04:13. | |
bus-loads is not enough when there are thousands more that must be in | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
Aleppo, but we are in President Assad may be congratulating his | :04:20. | :04:21. | |
regime forces on their actions in Aleppo, but we are in that this is | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
no victory but a tragedy. One that we will not forget that this is no | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
victory but a tragedy. One that we will not the council Rougerie did | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
that those responsible must be held to of practical support for | :04:37. | :04:38. | |
alongside our diplomatic efforts, the UK will provide a further ?20 | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
million of practical support who are most for trusted humanitarian | :04:44. | :04:45. | |
partners, working on the front line in some of the hardest to reach | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
places in Syria, to help them deliver food parcels and medical | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
supplies to those most in need this includes ?10 million for trusted | :04:54. | :04:55. | |
humanitarian partners, working on the front line in some of the | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
hardest to reach places in Syria, to help them deliver food parcels and | :04:59. | :05:00. | |
medical supplies to those most in and an additional ?10 million to | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
Unicef to provide life-saving aid supplies for all those that have | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
been lost but it is not too late to save those who remain at the | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
Jordanian border. It is sadly too late to save all those that have | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
been lost but it is not too late to save those who and turning the | :05:18. | :05:19. | |
Council on the UK plans for leaving the EU and explained I updated the | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
Council on the UK plans for leaving the EU and explained that two this | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
House voted I explained that two weeks I explained that two a | :05:28. | :05:36. | |
considerable this House voted by a to support the government by | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
delivering the referendum result and invoking article 50 before the end | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
of, almost six to one to support the government by delivering the | :05:46. | :05:46. | |
referendum result and invoking Article 50 before the end of month | :05:47. | :05:54. | |
on whether the will respect the verdict of independent judiciary but | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
equally clear that whichever way the judgment goes we will meet the | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
timetable that I have set out. I also reaffirmed my commitment to a | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
smooth and orderly exit and in this period made it clear to the other EU | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
leaders that it remains my objective that we give reassurance early in | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
negotiations to EU citizens living in the UK and UK citizens living in | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
EU countries that their right to stay where they have made their | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
homes will be protected. This is an issue I would like to agree quickly | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
but clearly requires the agreement of the rest of the EU. I welcomed | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
the subsequent short discussion between the 27 other leaders on | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
their own plans for the UK withdrawal. It describe the other | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
leaders prepare for the negotiations just as we are making our own | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
preparations. That is in everyone's best interests. My aim is to cement | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
the UK is a close partner of the EU once we've left as I've said I want | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
the deal that we negotiate to reflect the kind of mature | :06:54. | :06:56. | |
cooperative relationship that close friends and allies enjoy. A deal to | :06:57. | :06:59. | |
give our company is the maximum freedom to trade with the European | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
markets and allow European businesses to do the same year. A | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
deal that will deliver the deepest possible cooperation to ensure | :07:09. | :07:10. | |
national security and that of our allies but a deal that will mean | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
when it comes to decisions about our national interest, such as how we | :07:16. | :07:18. | |
control immigration, we can make these decisions for ourselves. And | :07:19. | :07:25. | |
that our laws are once again made in the UK and not in Brussels. The calm | :07:26. | :07:27. | |
and measured approach this government will honour the will of | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
the British people and secure the right deal to make a successful | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
Brexit for the UK, the EU and the world. I commend this statement to | :07:37. | :07:44. | |
the House. I would like to thank the Prime Minister for an advance copy | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
of her statement and as we approach the end of this year I think we can | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
all agree this has been a year of enormous change in this country and | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
the rest of the world. With that change comes a great deal of | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
division. As we move swiftly to the triggering of Article 50, I want to | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
appeal to the prime Minster to not only work hard to heal the divisions | :08:04. | :08:10. | |
in the UK but also make sure her new years resolution includes a to build | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
better relations with our European partners so we get the best deal for | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
the people of this country. Not just a Brexit that benefits business and | :08:20. | :08:25. | |
bankers, and at the moment it is clear that on the international | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
stage the Prime Minister and the UK are becoming increasingly isolated. | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
If we are to build a successful Britain after Brexit it is more | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
vital than ever that our relationship with our European | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
partners remains strong, cordial and respectful. It is also clear through | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
my own discussions with European leaders that they are becoming | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
increasingly frustrated by her shambolic government and the | :08:52. | :08:54. | |
contradictory approach to Brexit negotiations. The mixed messages | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
from her front bench only adds to the confusion. This government fails | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
to speak for the whole country, instead we hear a bubble of voices | :09:06. | :09:08. | |
speaking for themselves and their vested interests. For instance last | :09:09. | :09:16. | |
week we were told by the permanent representative to the EU that a | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
Brexit deal may take ten years. Contradicting what the Secretary of | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
State for Brexit told us at a select committee that day when he said that | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
a deal could be struck in 18 months. A bit of a difference. We also heard | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
from the Chancellor told us that Britain was looking for a | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
for the Secretary of State for for the Secretary of State for | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
a transitional deal. Saying that any a transitional deal. Saying that any | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
would go against the wishes of those would go against the wishes of those | :09:50. | :09:50. | |
who voted to leave. The people of Britain deserve better than this | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
confusion at the heart of government. Confidence has been | :09:55. | :10:01. | |
lost, the Office for Budget Responsibility made their own | :10:02. | :10:03. | |
judgment on the government Brexit plans in November. When they | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
published a new forecast for 2017. Growth was revised down, wages | :10:09. | :10:15. | |
revised down, business investment revised down. The only thing that | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
the Obi are raised was their forecast for inflation. They are | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
risking even weaker growth than they have delivered so far, an exodus of | :10:25. | :10:32. | |
financial services and hitting the manufacturing industry hard. I | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
welcomed that the government have now accepted the labour demands for | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
a published Brexit plan. But it is still unclear as to how the plan | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
will be presented and when we will receive it here in Parliament. So | :10:47. | :10:53. | |
can the Prime Minister today do what the Secretary of State for Brexit, | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Secretary of State for International | :10:58. | :10:59. | |
trade and the permanent Secretary to the EU all failed to do last week, | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
and give this country some real answers. Can she tell us when the | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
House will receive the government plans for Article 50, how long we | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
will be given to scrutinise that plan, can she also tell us how long | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
the British Government envisages the whole process taking and can she | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
tell us if the British Government will be looking for an interim | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
transitional deal with the European Union. These are basic questions | :11:27. | :11:28. | |
that still have not been answered almost six months after the UK voted | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
to leave the EU. There are also reports that the UK | :11:32. | :11:41. | |
will be asked to pay a 50 billion euro bill to honour commitments to | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
the European budget until 2020. Can the Prime Minister tell the House if | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
this is the case, and can she update us on the government's contingency | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
plans for those projects and programmes in the UK that are | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
currently reliant on EU funding after 2020? There is much concern in | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
many parts of the country about those programmes. I welcome the | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
Prime Minister's desire to bring forward and give greater clarity to | :12:10. | :12:12. | |
the issue of rights of European Union citizens in the UK. However, | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
if the Prime Minister is serious about this, why wait? Why won't this | :12:19. | :12:25. | |
government and the worry, as this House demanded in July, and give an | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
unequivocal commitment to guarantee people's rights before Article 50 is | :12:30. | :12:37. | |
triggered, as both the TUC and the British Chamber of Commerce have | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
called for this weekend? Not only is it the right thing to do, it would | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
also send a clear signal to our colleagues and our European friends | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
that Britain is committed to doing the right thing and committing to a | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
friendly future relationship. With that in mind, I would like to take | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
this opportunity to welcome the Austrian President, Alexander van | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
der Bellen, on his election. I am sure we will all agree his victory | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
in the presidential elections represents a victory for respect and | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
kindness over hate and division. And it is a signal against the dangerous | :13:18. | :13:24. | |
rise of the far right across Europe. Mr Speaker, I am also glad the | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
European Union Council leaders discussed the other pressing global | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
issues last week, notably the terrible situation in Syria. I want | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
to use this opportunity to renew the calls I made in a letter to the | :13:39. | :13:41. | |
Prime Minister last week for an urgent and concerted effort from the | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
government to press for an end to the violence and a UN led ceasefire. | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
The creation of a UN brokered humanitarian corridor and the | :13:52. | :13:59. | |
insurance of an end to attacks on the civilian publishing as well as | :14:00. | :14:07. | |
urgent talks through the UN to ensure a political settlement. The | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
rules of war are being broken on all sides. Labour has long condemned | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
attacks on civilian targets on all sides, including those by Russian | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
and pro-Syrian government forces in Aleppo. For which there can be no | :14:19. | :14:28. | |
excuse. I also know the issue of Cyprus and reunification was raised | :14:29. | :14:31. | |
at the council meeting. Could the Prime Minister give us an update on | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
what was said on this issue? Britain is after all a guarantor of Cypriot | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
independence from the 1960 treaty. There is a lot to do in 2017, with a | :14:42. | :14:47. | |
lot of important decisions to be made. I make a plea to the Prime | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
Minister to represent all sides, whether they voted to leave or | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
remain, and to make the right decisions that benefit not just her | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
party, but everyone in this country. Prime Minister. Thank you, Mr | :15:01. | :15:10. | |
Speaker. On the issue of Cyprus, yes, the president updated us on the | :15:11. | :15:13. | |
talks that have taken place. These are important talks. We all accept | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
that we have perhaps the best opportunity for a settlement in | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
Cyprus that we have seen for many years. The president made clear that | :15:22. | :15:28. | |
the talks have been taking place under UN auspices between the two | :15:29. | :15:36. | |
leaders. They have been encouraged by the leaders on the island and it | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
is important to recognise the leadership they have shown in | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
relation to this. The honourable gentleman is right, there are three | :15:44. | :15:46. | |
guarantors, Greece, Turkey and the UK. We stand ready to play our part | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
is required and when it is appropriate for us to do so. There | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
is the possibility of a meeting coming up in January. There is the | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
possibility that that will be attended by others like the UK. The | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
EU said it stood ready to participate if that was going to be | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
part of helping this deal to come through. Secondly, on the issue of | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
Syria, as I said, the honourable gentleman wrote to me asking to take | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
action through the United Nations. We have consistently been taking | :16:19. | :16:21. | |
action through the UN. We have worked over the weekend to ensure | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
that there was a UN Security Council resolution today. That was accept | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
it, as members of this House will know. There have been other Security | :16:32. | :16:34. | |
Council resolutions previously that Russia have vetoed. The most recent | :16:35. | :16:40. | |
one, Russia and China vetoed. But we now have a resolution that has been | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
accepted by Russia and China and accepted unanimously by the Security | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
Council that provides for UN monitoring, and also for | :16:50. | :16:51. | |
humanitarian access and UN monitoring of people leaving Aleppo, | :16:52. | :16:58. | |
which I think is important. He spent most of his comments in relation to | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
the issue of Brexit. He started talking about is wanting a deal that | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
benefits the UK. Yes, I have been saying that ever since I first came | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
into this role. We want to make sure we get the best possible deal. But | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
in negotiations, you don't get the best possible deal by laying out | :17:18. | :17:25. | |
everything you want in advance. He talks about isolation. Well, the | :17:26. | :17:32. | |
point is that the UK is going to leave the European Union. We are | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
leaving the group that is the European Union. In due course, they | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
will be meeting only 27 because we will no longer be a member. But what | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
is clear from what happened at the European Council is that as long as | :17:47. | :17:49. | |
we are a member, we will continue to play our full part within the | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
European Union. He talked about the question of EU funds which are | :17:54. | :17:59. | |
currently intended to continue beyond the date at which we would be | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
leaving the European Union. The Chancellor of the Exchequer set out | :18:04. | :18:06. | |
clearly weeks ago what the position on this was, that those funds will | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
continue to be met, provided they give value for money and meet the UK | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
Government's objective is. He talked about the length of the process. As | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
he knows, once we trigger article 50, the treaty allows for a process | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
that can take up to two years. Of course, how long within that process | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
it does take depends on the progress of the negotiations that take place. | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
He then talked about uncertainty and needing investment to come into the | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
UK. He gave the impression that there was this bleak picture in | :18:39. | :18:41. | |
terms of the economy. Fastest growing economy this year in the G7, | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
I would remind him. Let's look at companies that have announced new | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
additional investment since the Brexit referendum. Honda, Jaguar | :18:53. | :19:01. | |
Land Rover, Nissan, Howdy, Facebook, Google, GSK. The list will continue, | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
because this is still a good place to invest. It is still a good place | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
to grow businesses. Then he talks about confusion on the front bench. | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
Well, he has obviously been looking at his own front bench when he can | :19:15. | :19:19. | |
to does this. Let's take one simple issue of immigration. The Shadow | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
Home Secretary suggests freedom of movement should be maintained. The | :19:24. | :19:26. | |
Shadow Chancellor said we should have a fair deal on freedom of | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
movement, and the shadow Brexit secretary says we should have | :19:31. | :19:33. | |
immigration controls. They can't even agree on one aspect of the | :19:34. | :19:40. | |
European Union and leaving it. With the right honourable gentleman's | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
negotiation techniques, if he was in office, we would be getting the | :19:45. | :19:47. | |
worst possible deal we could get for the United Kingdom. Mr Iain Duncan | :19:48. | :19:57. | |
Smith. May I ask my right honourable friend that when she was at the | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
council and she reminded the council leaders about her generous offer to | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
allow EU citizens who were here in the UK to remain and for UK citizens | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
to receive the same privilege, did she manage to take to one side | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
Donald Tusk and ask him simply white, when his own government was | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
keen to agree to that, he turned around and vetoed it? My right | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
honourable friend is right. I made clear once again that I hope that | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
this issue of EU citizens living here and UK citizens living in the | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
EU member states can be dealt with at an early stage of the | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
negotiations. The other member states and the council have been | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
clear that they are not prepared to enter into negotiations before | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
article 50 is triggered. But I will continue to remind them of our hope, | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
for good reason, because we want to reassure people, that this can be | :20:51. | :20:53. | |
dealt with at an early stage and then the people concerned can get on | :20:54. | :20:59. | |
with their lives. I thank the Prime Minister for advanced site of her | :21:00. | :21:06. | |
statement and wish colleagues a very Merry Christmas, happy Hogmanay and | :21:07. | :21:12. | |
a fantastic 2017. Mr Speaker, it is now more than six months since the | :21:13. | :21:21. | |
Brexit referendum, when more than 6 million voters in Scotland voted to | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
remain. Tomorrow, the Scottish Government will become the first | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
administration in the UK to publish its plans in detail. The Prime | :21:29. | :21:31. | |
Minister has said she will seriously engage with the Scottish Government. | :21:32. | :21:37. | |
She says she has a Respect agenda. So will the Prime Minister commit to | :21:38. | :21:40. | |
meet with the First Minister to incorporate priorities of the | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
Scottish Government in the UK negotiating position? On security, | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
the Prime Minister's statement welcomed commitments on capability | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
including cyber threats. Without going into details for obvious | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
reasons, is the Prime Minister confident that enough safeguards are | :21:58. | :22:04. | |
in place regarding democratic institutions in the UK, including | :22:05. | :22:06. | |
political parties? And on the issue of Middle East violence, it was | :22:07. | :22:12. | |
discussed in the council and across the House, we obviously welcome | :22:13. | :22:15. | |
initiatives that make a difference in Syria. But there was no mention | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
in her statement of Yemen. Is it true that senior ministers have | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
known for some time that UK cluster munitions have been used in the | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
current conflict in Yemen, and when was the Prime Minister told about UK | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
cluster munitions in Yemen, and when will the UK join our European | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
partners in starting to have a more ethical foreign policy on both Saudi | :22:38. | :22:45. | |
Arabia and Yemen? Prime Minister. On the issue of Yemen, the right | :22:46. | :22:47. | |
honourable gentleman will have seen that there will be a statement being | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
made by the Defence Secretary later this afternoon. This was not an | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
issue that was discussed at the European Council. We focused on the | :22:56. | :22:58. | |
issues I mentioned in my fitment. He talks about cyber security and | :22:59. | :23:04. | |
political parties. I have to say that maintaining their cyber | :23:05. | :23:07. | |
security is a matter for individual political parties. It is up to them | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
to look at how they undertake that. Then he referred to the document the | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
Scottish Government will be publishing tomorrow. I took a call | :23:16. | :23:17. | |
from the First Minister this morning and I assured her that we will look | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
seriously at the proposals the government in Scotland is bringing | :23:23. | :23:25. | |
forward. I welcome the fact that they are looking at their | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
priorities. We have encouraged all devolved administrations to look at | :23:30. | :23:32. | |
their priorities so that they can be taken into account in the UK | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
negotiations on leaving the EU. There is already a structure that | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
enables us to discuss this with the devolved authorities. And there will | :23:41. | :23:52. | |
be a further session of the plenary in January. These normally only meet | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
once a year, but we are accelerating the number of meetings precisely so | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
that we can engage with the devolved administrations on these issues. | :24:04. | :24:10. | |
John Redwood. When people in the opposition and in business say that | :24:11. | :24:13. | |
we should make compromises by offering money or some control over | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
our laws or some control over our borders to get a deal, does the | :24:18. | :24:20. | |
Prime Minister agree that they are bidding against our country, making | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
a good deal more difficult to achieve and misunderstanding what | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
the majority voted for? I say to my right honourable friend, I agree | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
with him that what the public want is for us to get the best possible | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
deal for the UK. They want to leave the European Union and deliver | :24:40. | :24:42. | |
success in doing that. It is right that we don't give out every detail | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
of our negotiating strategy because if we did, that would be the way to | :24:47. | :24:55. | |
get the worst possible deal. On Friday, together with other | :24:56. | :24:56. | |
honourable members from Wolverhampton, I met with UTC | :24:57. | :25:02. | |
Aerospace, which employs 1600 people in high-value jobs in Wolverhampton. | :25:03. | :25:09. | |
That company raised with us membership of the European aviation | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
safety agency. When the Prime Minister says Brexit means Brexit, | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
does she mean we will no longer participate in the European aviation | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
safety agency and other agencies such as the European medical agency | :25:24. | :25:30. | |
and many others? It is precisely because we need to look with great | :25:31. | :25:35. | |
care at the wide range of our relationships with Europe that we | :25:36. | :25:38. | |
have taken time before we trigger Article 50. This is exactly the sort | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
of work that the department for exiting the European Union is doing, | :25:43. | :25:45. | |
looking at the range of organisations, some of which are | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
linked to membership of the European Union and some of which are not so | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
linked to the EU. They are crucially talking to each sector about what is | :25:54. | :25:56. | |
important for them so that we understand what matters to business. | :25:57. | :26:07. | |
I welcome these are preparations before triggering Article 50 and | :26:08. | :26:16. | |
would she agree that a speedy conclusion of the subsequent | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
negotiations would be in the interests of this country both to | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
put an end to damaging uncertainty and because according to the Office | :26:26. | :26:28. | |
for Budget Responsibility, every additional weeks of delay in leaving | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
the EU costs the country during ?50 million nett per week. As I said in | :26:35. | :26:46. | |
an earlier response, the treaty sets out for a potential two-year process | :26:47. | :26:52. | |
of negotiations. How long that is necessary to take is of course a | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
matter for the progress of those discussions and talks. So I think | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
that is a valid point about the sooner certainty can come the better | :27:04. | :27:06. | |
for business but of course we need to make sure we're getting the right | :27:07. | :27:14. | |
deal for the UK. Perhaps the Prime Minister could tell us with some | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
certainty when her plan for exiting the EU which she has agreed to | :27:20. | :27:22. | |
present to the House is actually going to be ready. Presumably some | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
time before she triggers Article 50. Yes. In their joint statement of the | :27:28. | :27:42. | |
15th of December at the president of the European Council and of the | :27:43. | :27:49. | |
European Commission and the heads of state of all the 27 member states | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
unanimously insisted and I quote, access to the single market requires | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
acceptance of all four freedoms including freedom of movement. Does | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
my right honourable friend agree that such an ultimatum is both | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
unacceptable and will not be accepted by the British people. I | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
have said all along I believe part of the vote to leave the EU, | :28:14. | :28:19. | |
underlying that was the desire for the British people to have control | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
over immigration and for decisions on immigration to be made by the | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
government here in the UK. And we should deliver on that. I look at | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
these issues in terms of the deal with want to negotiate, in terms of | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
the outcome that we want, which is the best possible deal for trading | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
with an operating within the single European market but doing that | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
commensurate with the other requirements we have, which is | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
British laws made here in Britain and control on immigration. | :28:48. | :28:58. | |
Following the European Council it appears the Prime Minister is | :28:59. | :29:01. | |
leading the country not just out of the EU but also out of the single | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
market and the customs union. Neither of which were on the ballot | :29:06. | :29:15. | |
paper last June. If instead remain had won by whisker last June, but | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
the government have had a mandate I wonder for a hard remain, would | :29:21. | :29:27. | |
David Cameron now has been stood there bouncing us into the euro and | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
showing and will she agree that as ludicrous as it sounds, it is no | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
more ludicrous than the extreme rewriting of the referendum result | :29:37. | :29:38. | |
which she now seeks to impose on the British people. The majority vote at | :29:39. | :29:47. | |
the referendum was for the UK to leave the EU. That is what we will | :29:48. | :29:54. | |
be delivering. Once again the right honourable gentleman raises | :29:55. | :29:59. | |
questions about means rather than ends. What we want is the best | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
possible outcome in terms of the trading relationship with the EU. | :30:05. | :30:10. | |
And for operating within the EU. That is where the focus should be | :30:11. | :30:13. | |
and not on particular processes to get there. The council conclusions | :30:14. | :30:22. | |
stress the continued resolve of the union to deepen and strengthen its | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
relationship with the Ukraine in face of current challenges. How | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
strongly does she expect government to support Ukraine after we have | :30:31. | :30:37. | |
left the EU? It is absolutely right that the European Council was | :30:38. | :30:42. | |
concerned with and wanted to ensure that we had that continuing | :30:43. | :30:46. | |
relationship with Ukraine. The UK is already supporting Ukraine in a | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
number of ways. And obviously when we have left the EU we will look at | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
our continuing bilateral relationships with countries across | :30:57. | :31:01. | |
the European continent. We are already providing money to establish | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
a national anti-corruption bureau in Ukraine, supporting energy reform in | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
Ukraine to reduce dependence on Russian gas, offering defensive | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
training to the Ukraine armed forces and supporting internal reform with | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
Ukrainian Ministry of Defence. So in a number of areas where already | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
supporting Ukraine and expect we will continue to want to have a good | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
bilateral relationship with them once we have left the EU. Could the | :31:28. | :31:35. | |
Prime Minister update as if they have been any discussions about how | :31:36. | :31:38. | |
successful the EU thinks its arrangement with Turkey with regards | :31:39. | :31:45. | |
to order and flow of immigration has been. We support the continuing EU - | :31:46. | :31:53. | |
Turkey deal and it has had an impact on migratory movements but of course | :31:54. | :31:56. | |
there are elements to that deal with which the UK is not involved because | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
they involve the Schengen zone member states. That is still a | :32:02. | :32:04. | |
matter of being discussed by those members of the Schengen zone. The UK | :32:05. | :32:11. | |
is not part of that. But I think we should recognise that the | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
arrangements in place so far have had an impact on movements into | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
Greece from Turkey. And crucially, I think what we need to see is making | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
sure the process of returning people who have no right to be in Greece is | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
operating as swiftly as possible. That is one reason why we are | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
offering extra staff to Greece to enable that process and those claims | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
to be processed more smoothly. The whole house will welcome the focus | :32:39. | :32:47. | |
reported from the meeting on Syria and Aleppo. The additional British | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
humanitarian support including for Unicef that she has announced on the | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
part played by British diplomats and the government over the weekend in | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
securing the successful UN resolution very much along the lines | :33:02. | :33:04. | |
of the debate in this House last week, will she ensured that over the | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
Christmas and New Year holiday, the full span of government attention | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
continues on securing unfettered access for humanitarian workers for | :33:15. | :33:20. | |
medical supplies and food. Bearing in mind there are still more than | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
50,000 people out in the open in Aleppo. Very frightened and in | :33:25. | :33:32. | |
temperatures well below freezing. My right honourable friend recognises | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
it is not just about agreeing resolution but about ensuring that | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
that is implemented. So the desire to ensure that humanitarian aid is | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
available to people and people are able to leave safely is put into | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
practice. I can assure him we recognise the importance of getting | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
the momentum of this. It is over the coming days and weeks that this will | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
be important to be doing this and the focus will continue to be on | :33:57. | :34:02. | |
that. May I ask about the risks of that cliff edge prompting some key | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
financial institutions already to think about moving some businesses | :34:08. | :34:13. | |
out of the UK. Does she agree with the chance of the said it would be | :34:14. | :34:19. | |
helpful if we started to discuss a transitional arrangement going | :34:20. | :34:21. | |
beyond that particular deadline and started to discuss that now. The | :34:22. | :34:28. | |
Chancellor reflected the comments I made when I spoke to the CBI, which | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
was a recognition of the desire for business to be able to have some | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
certainty beyond that point of leaving the EU. That is one reason | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
why we have already announced that we're going to bring EU law into | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
domestic law in the UK that point so people can have some certainty about | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
what that point of movement from membership of the EU to outside it | :34:50. | :35:01. | |
is. The CSU economy minister of Bavaria gave a clear warning to | :35:02. | :35:04. | |
coalition partners in Berlin in November that uncertainty could | :35:05. | :35:07. | |
damage the Bavarian economy is the UK is one of its most important | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
trading partners. Does the Prime Minister appreciate that they will | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
be significant forces in Europe supporting her timetable to trigger | :35:17. | :35:19. | |
Article 50 at the end of March in order to bring conclusion to the | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
arrangement of pre-trade existing between us and Bavaria. Well it is | :35:25. | :35:32. | |
an important point, he raises a specific case in relation to Bavaria | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
but overall the point is simple, this is not just about what is in | :35:37. | :35:39. | |
the interests of the UK but also about what is in the interests of | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
the remaining 27 members of the EU. As we negotiate the deal I expect us | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
to be negotiated a deal which is right in the UK but will retain a | :35:49. | :35:55. | |
strong EU with which we will be trading and with which we will be | :35:56. | :35:57. | |
working together on matters of mutual interest. I welcome the | :35:58. | :36:04. | |
extension of sanctions against Russia for six months but there has | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
been little visible progress on the Minsk accord during the time, during | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
recent months. What will the extension of these sanctions | :36:15. | :36:21. | |
achieve? The council was updated by Chancellor Merkel and president | :36:22. | :36:23. | |
Francois Hollande who have been leading in relation to discussions | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
on the Minsk agreement. Everyone is concerned that we still have the | :36:28. | :36:29. | |
position where the Minsk agreement has not been put into place. I | :36:30. | :36:37. | |
believe we need to roll over sanctions to show our continuing | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
rigger on this matter. And a continuing expectation for Russia | :36:42. | :36:44. | |
that they will actually abide by the requirements. Instead of EU | :36:45. | :36:56. | |
countries dangerously duplicating Nato structures but without American | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
participation, would it not do much more for the defence of Europe is | :37:01. | :37:06. | |
countries like France and Germany and other EU states that are members | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
of Nato actually spend a minimum of 2% of their GDP on defence. My | :37:13. | :37:19. | |
honourable friend is right that we want to see other countries also | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
stepping up to the plate. This country is spending 2% of its budget | :37:24. | :37:28. | |
on defence, we think others should be as well and I would encourage | :37:29. | :37:36. | |
them to do so. Is it not clear that there are many differences on her | :37:37. | :37:42. | |
side of freedom of movement. Would also not be the case that if this | :37:43. | :37:49. | |
arrangement continues, it would make a mockery of a majority decision | :37:50. | :37:55. | |
taken by the British people in the referendum. As I said earlier I | :37:56. | :38:04. | |
think an important part of the vote, one of the things underlying the | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
vote, was a desire for people to see the British Government bringing | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
control of immigration back home. I suggest if he has that view of | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
freedom of movement he might talk to his own front bench. Over 10,000 | :38:21. | :38:31. | |
Ukrainian servicemen have now been killed since the start of the | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
Russian backed conflict and progress on Minsk appears to be stalled. | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
Would she agree that we have a special responsibility in this since | :38:39. | :38:44. | |
we are signatories of the Budapest Memorandum and will she examine what | :38:45. | :38:47. | |
further pressure we can put on Russia and also what additional | :38:48. | :38:50. | |
assistance we can give to the people of Ukraine. I have to say we do look | :38:51. | :39:01. | |
at what more we can do. My right honourable friend the Defence | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
Secretary announced recently some extension of the training of | :39:05. | :39:10. | |
Ukrainian forces. And my right honourable friend the Foreign | :39:11. | :39:12. | |
Secretary also looks at whether there are other ways in which we can | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
ensure that the Minsk agreement is implemented in full. Of course I | :39:18. | :39:21. | |
think it is important that we work through the European Union in doing | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
that and put the pressure of the EU behind this. Did she discuss with | :39:25. | :39:31. | |
fellow leaders interference by Russia in the political processes of | :39:32. | :39:34. | |
Western democracies including our own using propaganda and cyber, what | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
action will she take to investigate what may already happened in this | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
country and how we can stop it happening in the future. I think | :39:44. | :39:53. | |
everyone is aware of the way in which Russia is currently operating | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
and the more aggressive stance rushes taking across a whole range | :39:57. | :40:03. | |
of ways, a whole range of aspects. I'm sure the right honourable | :40:04. | :40:06. | |
gentleman will not expect me to go into detail as to how we look at | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
these issues particularly in relation to cyber matters is the | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
right honourable gentleman the spokesman for the Scottish National | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
Party indicated earlier. But I can assure the right honourable | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
gentleman that we take the actions of state sponsored intervention and | :40:24. | :40:34. | |
cyber attacks very seriously. 2.8 million EU citizens must be assured | :40:35. | :40:38. | |
of their position in the UK, that has been welcomed. I work on a | :40:39. | :40:48. | |
report providing suggestions on how to regularise the immigration status | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
of the 1.8 million people on track to gain permanent residents and who | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
we suggest should be granted indefinite leave to remain. I am | :40:58. | :41:04. | |
aware of this report and I can assure her that we of course look | :41:05. | :41:07. | |
seriously as any proposals but come forward on this and other matters | :41:08. | :41:16. | |
relating to Brexit. Could I pressed her on the replied that she gave to | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
the leader of the Scottish National Party on Yemen? I appreciate she was | :41:21. | :41:25. | |
the only leader of a foreign country to address the GCC recently and the | :41:26. | :41:29. | |
Foreign Secretary has spoken courageously about the situation in | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
the Yemen. We celebrate Christmas on Sunday, but the people of that | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
country will be eating grass and drinking sea water in order to | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
survive. What does it say about politics in 2016 that the richest | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
club in the world is unable to find time to discuss one of the poorest | :41:49. | :41:49. | |
countries. I can assure the honourable | :41:50. | :41:58. | |
gentleman we're taking the situation in | :41:59. | :42:13. | |
Yemen seriously. Not least in humanitarian aid, but also my | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
honourable friend, the Foreign Office minister was in Riyadh, and | :42:19. | :42:21. | |
one of the issues he was discussing was the opening of the port, save | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
supplies can get through. My reading of the council conclusions on | :42:26. | :42:28. | |
defence corporation is the strength of British implements, rather than | :42:29. | :42:30. | |
the weakness, the Leader of the Opposition's inclusions. Given we | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
spent two percent of GDP on defence, 0.7% on aid, both sides of that | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
argument, are we in a good position to make this case? When we have | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
left, our European partners will still want that close relationship, | :42:45. | :42:51. | |
why we will get a good deal. My honourable friend is absolutely | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
right. We should be proud of the fact that in this country we spent | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
two percent on defence, 0.7% on international aid. Something | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
recognised not just across the European Union, but internationally. | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
It is that which enables us as the United Kingdom to take the lead on a | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
number of issues. He is absolutely right, from everything we saw in the | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
position and role the United Kingdom has played in the EU Council | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
discussions, it is clear people will continue to want to have a good | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
relationship with United Kingdom, that puts us in a good place in | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
getting the right deal. Can I congratulate the French and British | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
diplomats in New York who got the security council resolution today? | :43:36. | :43:41. | |
Is the Prime Minister aware, the Assad regime pass presented | :43:42. | :43:47. | |
immediately denounced it. It is quite clearly Syrian government will | :43:48. | :43:51. | |
not be happy about this. Can she take practical steps to ensure that | :43:52. | :43:55. | |
the resolution is actually implemented? Particularly protecting | :43:56. | :44:04. | |
those people witnesses to crime. Those people like the White helmets | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
being so brave in East Aleppo, which now could be vulnerable to | :44:10. | :44:16. | |
Hezbollah, the militias and the Assad regime. The honourable | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
gentleman is right, he is right about how the resolution isn't | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
lamented. French and UK diplomats worked hard to make sure this | :44:25. | :44:27. | |
resolution would be accepted by the Security Council. We had to make | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
sure it is put into practice. He refers to the evidence of crime, we | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
have been taking action making sure people are equipped, and trained to | :44:37. | :44:42. | |
gather evidence of crimes that have taken place, so they can be properly | :44:43. | :44:49. | |
investigated. Earlier private Prime Minister said: when it comes to | :44:50. | :44:55. | |
decisions on national interest, and immigration, we can make those | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
decisions for ourselves. May I commend that statement, and when she | :45:00. | :45:02. | |
finally presents her plan to Parliament, will she keep it brief, | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
focus on outcomes and not means. We are leaving the EU, the internal | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
market, we are going to regain control of our borders and laws, but | :45:12. | :45:17. | |
nothing in that is against concluding a free-trade deal | :45:18. | :45:22. | |
overwhelmingly in favour of our interests and our friends and | :45:23. | :45:26. | |
allies? My honourable friend is right, we need to get the right | :45:27. | :45:30. | |
possible deal. He is right to focus on the outcome of the deal we want, | :45:31. | :45:33. | |
rather than particular ends on means to achieve that outcome. It is | :45:34. | :45:38. | |
absolutely clear it is possible to get a deal which is a very good | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
trade deal for the United Kingdom. Also in the interests of the | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
European Union. With regards to the best interests of the United | :45:49. | :45:52. | |
Kingdom, with the Prime Minister confirm remaining in the European | :45:53. | :45:56. | |
arrest warrant, and Euro poll are in the best interest of the United | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
Kingdom? The honourable gentleman knows I have stood at this dispatch | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
box and argues we should remain in these particular aspects. In the | :46:07. | :46:13. | |
whole area of cooperation on crime, it will be part of the negotiations. | :46:14. | :46:20. | |
It is an issue, not just of what is in the UK's interests, the UK | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
working with partners in the European union is in their | :46:25. | :46:31. | |
interests, too. What are the chances of the proposed European defence | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
fund adding new money to collective European defence and security? What | :46:37. | :46:40. | |
is the Prime Minister'sattitude to the leaked a matter of the mechanism | :46:41. | :46:48. | |
due next year? On the issue of the European defence fund, referred to | :46:49. | :46:55. | |
in the Council conclusions, this is something which is yet to be fully | :46:56. | :47:01. | |
fledged out, how it will operate in the future. One of the issues | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
discussed by the European Council members is a concern to ensure | :47:07. | :47:09. | |
better procurement of defence equipment across the European Union. | :47:10. | :47:15. | |
It is in that context that these issues are being considered. Can I | :47:16. | :47:22. | |
push the Prime Minister on the matter of security? Viewed from | :47:23. | :47:28. | |
Moscow Europe must look so much more disunited and weak since June. The | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
fact the matter, we have 100,000 men and women in our Armed Forces, you | :47:34. | :47:40. | |
can get them in Wembley Stadium. What it tanks rolled across borders | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
in this unstable period of European history, what would we do? I have to | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
say to the honourable gentleman, first of all, the Secretary of State | :47:50. | :47:55. | |
for Defence has told me the figure is too not 100,000. Let's look at | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
the issue he has talked about. One of the things I have said in my | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
statement, the importance of Nato is the bedrock of our security and that | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
of our allies. That is important in ensuring our defence. What is this | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
government doing in defence spending, spending two percent, | :48:16. | :48:19. | |
committing over ?170 billion over a number of years for investment in | :48:20. | :48:26. | |
defence equipment. Ensuring we have the defence we need, both the forces | :48:27. | :48:32. | |
and equipment to keep us safe. Can my right honourable friend set out | :48:33. | :48:38. | |
how our support for the Syrian people, through the aid budget, is | :48:39. | :48:42. | |
helping alleviate some of the horrendous suffering happening over | :48:43. | :48:48. | |
there? My honourable friend is right to raise this issue, as we focus on | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
the specific question of Aleppo, it is easy to forget the significant | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
contribution in the UK is making through its aid budget, to the | :48:59. | :49:01. | |
humanitarian effort for the refugees from Syria. Much of that is going to | :49:02. | :49:09. | |
refugees in countries around Syria, Lebanon, Turkey and Jordan. We are | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
the second biggest bilateral donor in relation to humanitarian aid for | :49:15. | :49:18. | |
refugees, have committed ?2.3 billion. Medical supplies, food, | :49:19. | :49:24. | |
water, these are getting through, to people where they would not have | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
them elsewhere. It means that children are being educated as a | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
result of the money being spent by the United Kingdom. Absolutely right | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
we should do that. Can I commend the Prime Minister for her solid and | :49:39. | :49:44. | |
strong stance on Brexit. 27 EU members met without the Prime | :49:45. | :49:48. | |
Minister in attendance. Is this beginning of the cloak and dagger | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
approach? Ken's I/O sure we will not be kept in the dark, everything is | :49:54. | :49:58. | |
open. The British view expressed that the ballot box is sacrosanct | :49:59. | :50:03. | |
and a priority. 27 members of the European met for 25 minutes to | :50:04. | :50:08. | |
discuss aspects of the process for the UK leaving the European Union. | :50:09. | :50:11. | |
Absolutely right they meet together as 27. When we trigger article 50 we | :50:12. | :50:17. | |
want to make sure the process is as smooth and orderly as possible. It | :50:18. | :50:21. | |
is in our interests, the interests of the economy, the interest of | :50:22. | :50:27. | |
other economies as well. I welcome the fact that they are meeting of a | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
27, to make preparations, as we do when the 27, to make preparations, | :50:32. | :50:37. | |
as we do when we trigger article 30. -- 50. It is absolutely right we | :50:38. | :50:43. | |
maintain good relationships with the 27 member states of the European | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
Union, what steps is the premise the making connection we talk to | :50:49. | :50:51. | |
countries not in the European Union, to gain insight in their position, | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
and make plans for the future? My honourable friend raises an | :50:57. | :50:59. | |
important point, not just relationships with the EU, our | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
relationship with individual countries member of the EU, and | :51:04. | :51:13. | |
members of -- those who are not members. I held discussions with | :51:14. | :51:17. | |
those countries, and the United Kingdom outside the EU will not be | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
leaving Europe, we want to continue to have good relations with friends | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
and allies in Europe, good bilateral relationships, enabling us to trade | :51:26. | :51:32. | |
well with those nations, as well. One of the key aspects of security | :51:33. | :51:34. | |
cooperation across Europe is the ability to impose sanctions on the | :51:35. | :51:39. | |
EU sanctions regime. What discussions that the Prime Minister | :51:40. | :51:45. | |
have on the UK's involvement in that after leaving the European Union? I | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
can ensure him that the UK voice will be heard from you put forward | :51:50. | :51:54. | |
our opinion on matters like sanctions on Russia, and maintained | :51:55. | :52:00. | |
until the Minsk agreement is observed. One thing that both sides | :52:01. | :52:16. | |
of the EU referendum campaign can agree on is that during the | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
referendum campaign one of the big issues with the amount of money we | :52:21. | :52:22. | |
give each year to the European Union. Will the Prime Minister make | :52:23. | :52:28. | |
a pledge that when we leave the EU we will not be paying any money to | :52:29. | :52:34. | |
the EU budget, and surely even contemplating that would be | :52:35. | :52:37. | |
contemplating what people voted for in the EU referendum? Obviously | :52:38. | :52:45. | |
while we remain members of the European Union we continue to have | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
obligations as members of the European Union. When we leave the | :52:49. | :52:54. | |
European Union people want to ensure that the British government the site | :52:55. | :53:00. | |
at tax payers money is spent. The European Council stressed that those | :53:01. | :53:03. | |
responsible for breaches of international law in Syria must be | :53:04. | :53:09. | |
held accountable, and the EU is considering all available options. | :53:10. | :53:15. | |
They disagree with that sentiment. Can the Prime Minister set out what | :53:16. | :53:22. | |
that means in practice? The first thing, and it is a position that the | :53:23. | :53:27. | |
UK Government holds, where people have breached international | :53:28. | :53:30. | |
humanitarian law, that should be investigated and properly dealt | :53:31. | :53:34. | |
with. People should be brought to justice in relation to that. In | :53:35. | :53:38. | |
relation to the available options, there has been some consideration of | :53:39. | :53:43. | |
further sanctions, and issue the UK has raised in the past. We continue | :53:44. | :53:49. | |
to look at it. Does the Prime Minister agree with me, her first | :53:50. | :53:54. | |
duty as Prime Minister is to defend the rights of British subjects? It | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
would be a foolish negotiating strategy to unilaterally guarantee | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
the rights of EU nationals residing here? Much as we would like to, | :54:05. | :54:07. | |
until we have achieved represents the teeth for British nationals | :54:08. | :54:10. | |
overseas. -- repertoires . It is right that the UK Prime | :54:11. | :54:24. | |
Minister should have concern for UK citizens. Those living in other EU | :54:25. | :54:31. | |
states don't want to be left high and dry. We will guarantee EU | :54:32. | :54:39. | |
residents living hair, providing that UK citizens living overseas can | :54:40. | :54:41. | |
have their rights guaranteed as well. We'll Brexit deliver what | :54:42. | :54:49. | |
three ministers promised in the referendum, and for what the | :54:50. | :54:54. | |
majority of the voters supported? Namely a 350 million pounds a week | :54:55. | :55:02. | |
payment to the health service? Will they get the bill for 50 billion, | :55:03. | :55:10. | |
for which nobody voted? Premier League the European Union, we will | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
be delivering on what my colleagues, campaigning for leaving the European | :55:15. | :55:18. | |
Union campaign for, and those who voted for. The United Kingdom no | :55:19. | :55:24. | |
longer being a member of the European Union, taking control of | :55:25. | :55:27. | |
how taxpayer money is spent, how laws are made, and immigration. | :55:28. | :55:39. | |
Will my... In conversations with the European Parliament, will my right | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
honourable friend make clear, whatever deal we strike the European | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
Union, we will be offering free trade? And she ask them why anybody | :55:50. | :55:54. | |
is considering a reversion to protectionism and tariffs, | :55:55. | :56:00. | |
particularly in the fact that Article 35 in the European Union | :56:01. | :56:05. | |
joins the European Union to contributing to free and fair trade? | :56:06. | :56:14. | |
That is an important point, that this is about getting a good trade | :56:15. | :56:20. | |
relationship with the EU which is in their interests as well as our | :56:21. | :56:25. | |
interests. Lots of references made to the process in relation to trade, | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
but actually what we need to focus on the outcome, the best possible | :56:31. | :56:39. | |
deal in terms of trading the EU. Under the leadership of this Prime | :56:40. | :56:43. | |
Minister Britain has opposed strengthening trade measures and | :56:44. | :56:50. | |
Judy rules have crippled the UK steel industry. British workers and | :56:51. | :56:57. | |
British industry will be more exposed than ever before. The trade | :56:58. | :57:02. | |
defence arrangements that have been in place have significant impact on | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
the question of the dumping of steel. Of course everyone recognises | :57:08. | :57:12. | |
the importance of overcapacity and the effect of overcapacity in China. | :57:13. | :57:23. | |
With taken measures with regards to climate change and energy costs for | :57:24. | :57:27. | |
the steel industry, we have ensured other factors can be taken into | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
account when looking at procurement of steel, so social economic factors | :57:32. | :57:37. | |
are taken into account. Regarding the trade defence arrangements in | :57:38. | :57:41. | |
Europe, we think that we should ensure that we look at impact on | :57:42. | :57:46. | |
producers and also read to look at the impact on consumers. We call for | :57:47. | :57:49. | |
a balance in dealing with these issues. As the Prime Minister | :57:50. | :57:58. | |
reaches her first Christmas in her role I commend her for the sureness | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
of touch she has demonstrated as Prime Minister. I commend her for | :58:03. | :58:06. | |
setting up a fresh new government department for us to leave the EU | :58:07. | :58:11. | |
and remind her that in Kettering, 61% of people voted to leave and | :58:12. | :58:15. | |
they want her to get on with it as soon as possible. I thank my right | :58:16. | :58:21. | |
honourable friend for his kind words and I assure him that the government | :58:22. | :58:30. | |
is focused on delivering what overall the British people wanted, | :58:31. | :58:38. | |
leaving the EU. Can I press the Prime Minister how will the | :58:39. | :58:43. | |
government held President Assad to account for the decimation of | :58:44. | :58:53. | |
Aleppo? This is a matter which we and others in the international | :58:54. | :58:56. | |
community will be looking at. At the moment of course the situation is | :58:57. | :59:00. | |
that President Assad is still there in Syria, this is something we have | :59:01. | :59:04. | |
said from the beginning we want to see a political transition away from | :59:05. | :59:07. | |
President Assad but we are clear we need to look carefully at all the | :59:08. | :59:12. | |
actions that are being taken in relation to the conflict in Syria | :59:13. | :59:17. | |
and ensure people are held to account for those actions and | :59:18. | :59:20. | |
obviously those actions that break international humanitarian law. I | :59:21. | :59:26. | |
congratulate and thank my right honourable friend for the robust | :59:27. | :59:32. | |
stance she has taken in representing the UK at the recent EU Council | :59:33. | :59:37. | |
meeting. Can the Prime Ministers say with any of the leaders of the 27th | :59:38. | :59:43. | |
of whether they expressed a wish not to want to trade with the UK. I'm | :59:44. | :59:50. | |
happy to tell my honourable friend that when I have met leaders | :59:51. | :59:55. | |
bilaterally, they had been very keen to express their desire to continue | :59:56. | :59:58. | |
to trade and have a good trading relationship with the UK. What has | :59:59. | :00:03. | |
happened in Aleppo has been a tragedy and also an act of | :00:04. | :00:08. | |
deliberate brutality by President Putin and his regime and the | :00:09. | :00:11. | |
panellist is right to say that those responsible must be held to account. | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
There is something that she could do immediately, which is she could sign | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
up to the motion, to the amendment to the criminal finance bill tabled | :00:21. | :00:24. | |
by the right honourable member for barking at honourable friend which | :00:25. | :00:30. | |
would take the assets from those who have been involved in human rights | :00:31. | :00:39. | |
abuses and war crimes of them. The honourable gentleman raised an | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
important point, we already have legislative capacity in relation to | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
such matters and that is why I think the amendment has been considered | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
not to be necessary and not to take us forward. Assuming a humanitarian | :00:52. | :01:06. | |
corridor to Aleppo supported by a clear UN mandate is a possibility, | :01:07. | :01:14. | |
would Her Majesty the government be prepared to consider using our | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
military forces perhaps in small teams to monitor such an arrangement | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
as it is something in which we have had considerable expertise and | :01:25. | :01:33. | |
success to date. The Prime Minister could introduce an addendum to her | :01:34. | :01:41. | |
last answer. I'm afraid I was thinking in terms of the Lord that | :01:42. | :01:49. | |
he frequently raises in relation to the matters relating to Russia. So I | :01:50. | :01:56. | |
apologise for that. -- the law. My honourable friend has personal | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
experience providing support in circumstances where we need to | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
provide that humanitarian aid and support to people. This will be a | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
matter that will be taken up of course by the United Nations, and | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
the role the UK campaign that will be a matter for consideration under | :02:11. | :02:18. | |
the auspices of the United Nations. Towards the end of her remark she | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
talked in broad terms about the kind of mature cooperative relationship | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
she wants for the UK outside the EU. Which of the European countries that | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
are not in the EU does a deal she wants for Britain most closely | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
resemble? I have said consistently that we are not looking to try to | :02:39. | :02:45. | |
duplicate or replicate a model that is there for some other country | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
within Europe. What we will be doing is negotiating the deal that is | :02:52. | :02:53. | |
right for the UK and we will be ambitious in doing so. While | :02:54. | :03:06. | |
strongly commending the pivotal role which the UK is playing in Lebanon, | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
Jordan and other neighbouring states and coping with the miserable | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
outflow from Syria, could I urge my honourable friend that a high | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
priority in dealings with the incoming administration in | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
Washington must be tackling the growing military strength of Russia | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
and Iran in that region. It is very important that we look seriously at | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
the actions of Russia, as I indicated earlier in response to | :03:36. | :03:42. | |
another question, we must look at the actions of Russia across a range | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
of activities they are not -- there are now involved in. One element of | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
the conclusions of the European Council was that it now also | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
identified Iran is backing the Assad regime. I think that is a very | :03:55. | :03:57. | |
important step forward and we should continue to make the point that it | :03:58. | :04:05. | |
is not just Russia but Iran as well. It is welcome that the UN Security | :04:06. | :04:08. | |
Council has unanimously voted to approve UN personnel in eastern | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
Aleppo to monitor the evacuations and access to humanitarian aid | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
however I'm concerned that a requirement to what Nate with | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
involved parties such as the Syrian regime, Russia and Iran, could see | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
the monitor is denied access. What diplomatic role does the panellist | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
to think that Europe could play in ensuring access is not restricted in | :04:31. | :04:36. | |
this manner. It is for all of us in the international arena to ensure we | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
provide maximum support to the UN in being able to do what has been set | :04:41. | :04:43. | |
out in the Security Council resolution. It is significant that | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
it has been unanimously accepted and not fitted by Russia, the European | :04:50. | :04:56. | |
Union through the high representative has already been | :04:57. | :04:58. | |
involved in the international arena. Of course as has my right honourable | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
friend the Foreign Secretary. In urging all parties to ensure that | :05:05. | :05:06. | |
this humanitarian aid can get through and that the people who wish | :05:07. | :05:16. | |
to leave can be safely evacuated. Iran is the other major actor in | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
Syria and what steps will the council be taking to have | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
discussions with Iran so the atrocities committed in Aleppo are | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
not nearly committed in other towns and cities in Syria. My | :05:29. | :05:36. | |
understanding is that the European Union high representative has | :05:37. | :05:38. | |
already had discussions with Iran particularly with an aspect of | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
looking at the humanitarian aid which is necessary to get through. I | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
have just indicated in response to a previous question that it is right | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
that we have identified Iran as being a backer of the Assad regime | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
and should continue to do so and continue to press them and Russia | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
that we now have a Security Council resolution in relation to the | :06:02. | :06:04. | |
evacuation and humanitarian aid for Aleppo but the is a lot more to be | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
done if we are to reach a peaceful Syria in the future. Full stop. Can | :06:10. | :06:21. | |
I ask the Prime Minister what pressure or assistance are the | :06:22. | :06:28. | |
European leaders agreeing to to help refugees and help Jordan process | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
hundreds of thousands of refugees trapped in the no man's land between | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
Syria and Jordan. This is part of the work that we are doing, putting | :06:38. | :06:45. | |
aid into countries like Jordan to help them in dealing with those | :06:46. | :06:54. | |
refugees who are particularly, those already in Jordan. Some of the many | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
we're making available will specifically be looking at those now | :06:59. | :07:05. | |
massing on Jordanian border. I congratulate my right honourable | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
friend for her thoughtful statement. Does she agree that Brexit means | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
Brexit and that means we leave the EU and all its EU regulations and | :07:15. | :07:16. | |
Russia agree that that is the certainty that the country is | :07:17. | :07:26. | |
looking for. --. She agree. Brexit indeed means Brexit and as regards | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
the EU regulations it is important that at the point at which we leave | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
the EU, EU regulations are brought into domestic law in the UK. Then of | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
course it will be up to this Parliament to decide which of those | :07:39. | :07:40. | |
regulations it wishes to continue with and which it wishes to change. | :07:41. | :07:47. | |
In regard to citizens who have come to live in the UK, does the Prime | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
Minister agree that the principle of protecting those who make a positive | :07:53. | :07:55. | |
contribution to our communities should be a core responsibility of | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
government. I recognise the positive contribution made by EU citizens | :08:01. | :08:07. | |
living here and I have said on many occasions that I expect to be able | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
to wish to guarantee their status in the UK but we need reciprocity, we | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
need to have care and concern for UK citizens living in the EU. Did | :08:18. | :08:24. | |
promise to have any discussions with their counterparts on how quickly | :08:25. | :08:31. | |
the EU can progress on multinational tax avoidance and country by country | :08:32. | :08:39. | |
reporting? This was not a matter that was being discussed at the | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
European Council but the question of tax avoidance is one that the UK has | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
been a leader on. And this is an issue that I raised at the G20 | :08:49. | :08:55. | |
earlier this year. Did the discussions the Prime Minister had | :08:56. | :08:57. | |
with her European counterparts touch on the exchange rate of sterling and | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
how many euros did she get for her pound on her trip? We did not | :09:03. | :09:15. | |
discuss that. The Prime Minister mentioned an extra ?20 million of | :09:16. | :09:17. | |
practical support band perhaps she could talk a bit more about all the | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
other things that we are funding in that region. I will not list | :09:22. | :09:31. | |
everything that we are funding, as I have said we're a contribution that | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
is now committed to 2.3 billion to helping Syrian refugees and that is | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
about medical supplies, water, the opportunity for young people to be | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
educated. 10 million of the 20 million I indicated earlier will be | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
for those now massing on the Jordanian border. So very | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
specifically looking at those that have, that are vulnerable as a | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
result of the most recent actions that have been taken. It is right | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
that we putting supporting and I think this House should be proud of | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
the effort that this country is undertaken to support Syrian | :10:07. | :10:14. | |
refugees. A major poll last week in Wales noted the overwhelming Brexit | :10:15. | :10:16. | |
priority of the people of my country was continued single market | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
membership of the controls on immigration. If she intends to | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
abandon the single market will she support membership status for Wales | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
to ensure the Welsh economy is not shackled to a sinking UK ship. It is | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
the UK that will leave the EU and UK that will be negotiating the deal | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
that we have for leaving the EU but we will be working with the devolved | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
administrations and taking into account the particular priorities | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
that they have. But I repeat what I have said earlier, the honourable | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
gentleman makes a reference to what is essentially a means or process in | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
relation to trading. What we want to focus on the outcome we want, which | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
is the best possible trading deal for trading with and operating | :11:02. | :11:08. | |
within single European market. I congratulate the Prime Minister on | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
her determination to raise the issue of reciprocal rights despite the | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
fact it was not formally on the agenda. This is an issue of serious | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
concern for EU citizens living here and our citizens living in Europe. I | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
also congratulate for raising this with individual member states as | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
well. I urge her to continue with these talks and ensure we put people | :11:28. | :11:29. | |
first before process. Negotiations are of immediate | :11:30. | :11:54. | |
concern to many of my constituents, that of this. Prime Minister confirm | :11:55. | :12:04. | |
whether she will be present for the multilateral talks. Will the UK | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
guarantee the independence of Cyprus? What I would say to my | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
honourable friend, we recognise the importance of the talks taking | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
place. The UK's position is simple, as a guarantor we will do what is | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
necessary to play our part. It is important that that is primarily led | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
by the two leaders pushing these discussions in Cyprus, under the | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
auspices of the United Nations. We stand ready to attend the talks of | :12:33. | :12:34. | |
the 12 January. The European Union has | :12:35. | :12:43. | |
also indicated their readiness to be present. We will be present if that | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
is going to aid coming to a settlement. We should focus on | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
whether we will get the result. It should be with the aim is a | :12:56. | :13:04. | |
settlement and reunification. It is accepted that business wishes to see | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
the maximum possible certainty to make investment decisions. Does my | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
right honourable friend agreed that that certainty is not obtained by | :13:14. | :13:20. | |
equivocation of tricking article 50, triggering it promptly and being | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
flexible and business focused in the terms of our negotiation and | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
implementation of the final deal? My honourable friend makes an important | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
point, precisely why I indicated in October we would trigger Article 50 | :13:35. | :13:41. | |
by the end of March, giving people certainty as to the timetable. He is | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
absolutely right, we need a maximum Flex ability thereafter, making sure | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
we can meet business needs and the needs of the UK generally. The Prime | :13:50. | :13:56. | |
Minister'sapproach is absolutely right, especially for constituents | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
whose jobs rely on trade, investment, students and residents | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
from the European Union, he wanted CS focus on the key ingredients on | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
success. Will her pragmatic focus on outcomes be Maugham likely to unify | :14:11. | :14:18. | |
the country, then some political parties defining Brexit is a boiled | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
egg, either soft or hard? I agree with my honourable friend. The | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
British people want us to get on with it, do the deal, and get a good | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
deal for the United Kingdom. That is exactly what we want to do. Thank | :14:31. | :14:36. | |
you Mr Speaker, I would not expect the premise that to comment on | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
today's events. Was there a discussion on the stability of | :14:43. | :14:45. | |
Turkey, as a key ally and applicant country? There was some discussion, | :14:46. | :14:52. | |
notably in the context of migration with Turkey. And the relationship. | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
As I indicated in response to a question earlier, that relationship | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
is important. De EU and Turkey deal has led to the significant reduction | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
in numbers of people crossing into Greece. We need to make sure the | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
deal is being properly undertaken, giving extra support to Greece. And | :15:11. | :15:18. | |
for the other aspects of the deal, Visa liberalisation, that is a | :15:19. | :15:26. | |
matter for the Schengen states the -- to consider. We are all aware of | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
their relationship with Turkey. I welcome the premise the's statement, | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
condemning the actions of the Assad regime, Russia and Iran. Apart from | :15:38. | :15:44. | |
condemning, was there a strategy looking to counter Iranian | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
aggression in Syria, and the destabilising activity in the wider | :15:49. | :15:54. | |
region? First of all, it was very important that the conclusions that | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
came out of the council identified Iran as well as Russia as being part | :15:58. | :16:05. | |
of the backers of the Syrian regime. It was in the context of condemning | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
what took place in Aleppo that that was specifically raised. As regards | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
Iran more generally, and what is happening in Syria, we can continue | :16:16. | :16:22. | |
as a European Union and United Kingdom to put pressure on those | :16:23. | :16:25. | |
backing President Assad, to make sure we can do everything that | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
people in the European Union Watt, moving to a peaceful and stable | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
Syria with political transition and a proper political process. It means | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
continued pressure on Russia and Iran. May I also congratulate the | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
Prime Minister on her calm and measured approach since taking over. | :16:45. | :16:57. | |
On EU and UK relations. As we understand the UK and US position on | :16:58. | :17:03. | |
the Trump and Clinton campaigns, will we be doing the same in the EU | :17:04. | :17:10. | |
to help how every negotiation process? I say to my honourable | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
friend, of course we are in discussions with a number of people | :17:16. | :17:18. | |
to ensure we understand the approach being taken in other member states | :17:19. | :17:26. | |
by various parties. It is not just about political parties, also about | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
understanding business and other interests in the member states we | :17:31. | :17:37. | |
are negotiating with, so we can be better able to come to a deal that | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
is not only good for the United Kingdom, but as I said, is the deal | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
we want. A deal that is good for the UK will be good for the EU as well. | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
Does my right honourable friend agree that the government's | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
priorities in Syria must extend beyond the vital humanitarian aid, | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
and a post-conflict settlement, and a reconstruction plan | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
that will help the people of Syria? I have to say to my honourable | :18:08. | :18:15. | |
friend, bringing peace and stability to | :18:16. | :18:45. | |
Syria. I can my right honourable friend confirm that when we leave | :18:46. | :19:07. | |
the European Court of just over? This is an issue my honourable | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
friend has campaigned on considerable time. Part of the vote | :19:11. | :19:18. | |
that people took was Parliament in the United Kingdom actually | :19:19. | :19:20. | |
determining laws in the United Kingdom. That means not being under | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. A diplomat friend | :19:25. | :19:34. | |
of mine from Sweden told me last week it will not just be the budget | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
they will miss from Brexit, what they will miss is the English and | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
British nationals working for the European Union, who he says are | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
organised, systematic and imaginative. Quite a contrast to | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
many of the others who work for the secretariat. With my right | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
honourable friend join me in wishing them well for the future, and I | :20:00. | :20:06. | |
guess, happy Christmas? I'm happy there are many excellent British | :20:07. | :20:08. | |
officials working inside the European Union. Including our | :20:09. | :20:15. | |
commissioner, Sir Julian King, with his important portfolio on security | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
matters. I wish them all well for the future, I wish them and the | :20:21. | :20:27. | |
whole House Merry Christmas. Would we be prepared to spend more than | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
two percent on the fence, for example, on carrier battle and | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
support, to underpin security in Europe and elsewhere, as part of the | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
constructive on giving relationship between the EU and the UK? I have to | :20:41. | :20:47. | |
say to my honourable friend, we have that commitment to spending two | :20:48. | :20:50. | |
percent of GDP on defence, an important commitment we have given. | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
I understand support will be there for the carriers. I think it is | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
right we encourage others within the European Union and Nato to increase | :21:02. | :21:11. | |
their spending to the same level. Shortly before the council met, the | :21:12. | :21:19. | |
15th round of the EU and US talks ended in stalemate, predictably | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
enough. At the same time the prospects of a bilateral UK and US | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
deal appeared to be on the rise. It does not come from I-70 between the | :21:28. | :21:37. | |
two nations, does not see the need for a new supranational policy | :21:38. | :21:37. | |
organise disputes, because we organise disputes, because we | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
respect each other and we have a relationship with the incoming | :21:44. | :21:47. | |
administration. As continuing members of the EU, and as long as we | :21:48. | :21:54. | |
are there, we will continue to press for the advantage of the | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
transatlantic partnership deal. I'm looking at the possibilities of a | :21:59. | :22:01. | |
trade deal we will be able to have with them in due course. In Libya, | :22:02. | :22:09. | |
there seems to be a lack of stability in Tripoli, but there is | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
stability in Benghazi. I would like to ask my honourable friend, whether | :22:14. | :22:21. | |
the European Council is doing anything to stabilise the situation | :22:22. | :22:24. | |
so there is no migration of people coming from Libya. There was some | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
discussion of Libya, because of the recognition it plays an important | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
role in relation to the migration of people from the rest of Africa, up | :22:33. | :22:35. | |
into the Mediterranean, individually. Royal Naval vessels | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
have been in the Mediterranean saving people's lives, and continue | :22:41. | :22:47. | |
to be there. As I indicated in my statement, training Bolivian Coast | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
Guard, an important part of the process of preventing migration from | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
taking place. It is important we have that government in Libya, and | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
are able to interact with the government. We would encourage and | :23:00. | :23:06. | |
wish to see stability across Libya so we can further ensure we are | :23:07. | :23:08. | |
dealing with the issue of migration. With permission Mr Speaker, I would | :23:09. | :23:31. | |
like to make a statement about serious disturbance at HMP | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
Birmingham. I want to pay tribute to the bravery and dedication of the | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
prison officers he resolved this difficult situation. I want to give | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
thanks to West Midlands Police who supported the prison service through | :23:45. | :23:47. | |
the day, and the ambulance and Fire Service you provided assistance. | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
This was a serious disturbance. I have ordered a full investigation | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
and appointed Sarah pain, adviser to the independent Chief Inspector, | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
former director of the Welsh prison service to leave the work. I don't | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
want to prejudge the outcome of the investigation. As we currently | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
understand it, at 9:15am on Friday, at HMP Birmingham, six prisoners | :24:15. | :24:21. | |
climbed onto netting. When staff intervened, one of them had their | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
keys snatched. At that point staff withdrew for their own safety. Two | :24:26. | :24:37. | |
Tornado teams were deployed by G4S. Gold command was open. Seven | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
additional tornado teams were dispatched to the prison. Prisoners | :24:43. | :24:49. | |
gained access to two more wings. Gold command make decisions further | :24:50. | :24:56. | |
reinforcements were needed, and an additional four tornado teams were | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
dispatched to the prison. At 2:45pm the police and prison service | :25:02. | :25:04. | |
secured all four wings, which remain secure through the day. Shortly | :25:05. | :25:10. | |
after three p.m., there were reports of an injured prisoner, paramedics | :25:11. | :25:12. | |
and staff tried to intervene, but were prevented from doing so by | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
prisoners. During the afternoon every bus plan was prepared to take | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
back control of the wings. Minimising risk to staff and | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
prisoners. It is important that in this type of situation, the right | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
resources are in place before acting. Ten tornado teams of highly | :25:31. | :25:38. | |
trained officers swept through the wings. Shortly after 10pm the teams | :25:39. | :25:44. | |
had secured all four wings. The prisoner, who had been previously | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
reported injured was treated by paramedics and taken to hospital, | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
along with two other prisoners. Throughout the day the Prisons | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
Minister and I shared cross government calls to make necessary | :25:58. | :26:00. | |
preparations, and to ensure the prison service had all the support | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
it needed. I want to thank the tornado teams, prison officers and | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
emergency services for their emergency work as I said before, | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
levels of violence are too high in our prisons. We also have very | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
concerning levels of self harm and deaths in custody. We are reforming | :26:20. | :26:25. | |
our prisons to be safe and purposeful praises, taking swift | :26:26. | :26:28. | |
action to deal with acts, It will take time and effort to turn | :26:29. | :26:50. | |
the situation around. We are continually working to reduce risk | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
and ensure stability across the prison estate. The Prison Service is | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
leading Gold command to collect intelligence, to deploy resources | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
and in particular manage the movement of prisoners. Including | :27:05. | :27:07. | |
managing incidents at Hull prison yesterday morning which were quickly | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
dealt with by staff. To date we have moved 380 prisoners out of | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
Birmingham and we continue to assess the level of damage on the wings. | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
The prisons minister chairs daily meetings with the chief executive | :27:23. | :27:25. | |
and senior members of the Prison Service to monitor prisons for risk | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
factors that might indicate potential violence and unrest. Where | :27:32. | :27:34. | |
necessary we are providing governors with immediate and targeted support | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
ranging from extra staff through to the transfer of difficult prisoners | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
and speeding up repairs or replacements to facilities. As we | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
manage the difficult situation we have currently, we are implementing | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
a reform programme which will reduce violence and cut the ?15 billion | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
cost of reoffending as laid out in the white paper. In September we | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
rolled out tests for dangerous psychoactive drugs in prison and we | :28:04. | :28:06. | |
are the first country to do this. We're rolling out new technology to | :28:07. | :28:12. | |
prevent mobile phone use and we are recruiting for a new ?3 million | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
national intelligence unit to crack down on gang crime. We are | :28:17. | :28:23. | |
increasing staffing levels by 2500 officers and we are taking steps to | :28:24. | :28:29. | |
train and retain our valued staff. This includes a new apprenticeship | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
programme, graduate entry scheme, fast-track promotions and retention | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
payments and we're putting an extra ?100 million into this. We're | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
modernising our estate with a ?1.3 billion investment programme and we | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
are empowering governors to manager -- to manage locally to get people | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
off drugs, get them the skills that they need and get them into work. | :28:52. | :28:54. | |
Importantly for the first time ever in the prison chords built next year | :28:55. | :29:00. | |
we will make clear that the purpose of prison is not just about housing | :29:01. | :29:05. | |
prisoners but also reforming them. Together these reforms are the right | :29:06. | :29:10. | |
way to address our issues in prisons so they become purposeful places | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
where offenders get off drugs and get the education and skills they | :29:16. | :29:19. | |
need to find work and turn their backs on crime for good. The issues | :29:20. | :29:25. | |
in our prisons are long-standing, and they're not going to be | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
completely solved in weeks or months. We're working to ensure that | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
the prisons are stable while the deliver our reforms. Of course this | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
is a major task and I'm committed to this and so is the Prison Service | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
and know that governors and prison officers are as well. The next few | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
months will be difficult. But I'm confident that we can turn this | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
situation around, we can turn our prisons into places of safety and | :29:53. | :29:58. | |
perform and this is my absolute priority as Secretary of State. I | :29:59. | :30:07. | |
commend this statement to the House. Thank you to the Secretary of State | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
for giving me advance sight of her statement. I want to pay tribute to | :30:12. | :30:17. | |
the Tornado teams, the prison officers and the emergency services. | :30:18. | :30:23. | |
But the Secretary of State has a prison crisis on her hands. It would | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
be helpful if she admitted this to the House and the country. The riots | :30:28. | :30:33. | |
at the privately run Birmingham prison on Friday has been described | :30:34. | :30:39. | |
as probably the most serious riot in a B category prison since | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
Strangeways back in 1990. But there's riot is not a crisis, it is | :30:44. | :30:50. | |
a symptom of the crisis. In recent months there have been disturbances | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
at Lincoln, Lewis, Bedford, and incidents at Hull prison and | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
elsewhere. Folsom prison staff are at an all-time high and prison | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
officers are leading the service in such numbers that 8000 will be | :31:04. | :31:11. | |
needed to be recruited to meet the 2500 target. So the Secretary of | :31:12. | :31:15. | |
State has questions to answer and so does the government as a whole. When | :31:16. | :31:21. | |
the Independent monitoring board said back in October that an urgent | :31:22. | :31:24. | |
solution was needed to the prevalence of synthetic drugs in | :31:25. | :31:30. | |
Birmingham prison, what action did the Secretary of State take question | :31:31. | :31:36. | |
mark I want to ask how much has the disorder on Friday cost and who is | :31:37. | :31:42. | |
footing the bill for the damage. Will tend to be reimbursing the | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
public purse for the use of public sector staff to sort out this | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
disorder and does the Secretary of State think it is acceptable that | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
private sector prisons do not have to reveal staffing levels in the way | :31:55. | :31:57. | |
that prisons in the public sector do. If like me she does not believe | :31:58. | :32:05. | |
it is acceptable, is she going to do anything about it? And does the | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
Secretary of State regret her vitriolic attack on prison officers | :32:10. | :32:16. | |
this Chamber on the 15th of November, is it even shocked many of | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
her colleagues. Is it not about time that the secular state started to | :32:21. | :32:23. | |
listen to prison officers on the front line. Of all prisons in 2015, | :32:24. | :32:31. | |
Birmingham had the highest number of assaults on staff. There were 164 | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
assaults on staff in 2015 alone. The prison officers Association, PCS | :32:37. | :32:43. | |
trade union and Prison Governors Association had warned of this | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
crisis since 2010. It is about time that fundamental questions were | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
asked about the way the prison systems are working or not working. | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
The secular state is to consider whether or not it is right that | :32:57. | :33:03. | |
private companies like G4S at Birmingham should be making profit | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
from prisons and from societies ills. The Secretary of State needs | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
to change her mind to the fight that where rehabilitation fails and where | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
prison education is cut, reoffending rises. This is a failure to protect | :33:19. | :33:25. | |
society. Privatisation of the probation service, Savage cuts to | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
prison staff, overcrowding in prisons, cuts to through the gate | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
services, or stop prisons are working and put the public at | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
increased risk. The Secretary of State should admit that in her | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
overcrowded, understaffed prisons, shorter sentence prisoners are | :33:46. | :33:48. | |
leaving prison with drug addiction is they did not have won it went in | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
and they are leaving more likely to commit more serious crimes than | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
those crimes they were put away for in the first place. This is not | :33:56. | :34:01. | |
protecting society but endangering society. Such is the crisis in our | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
prisons that the secretary of state needs to develop an open mind on the | :34:06. | :34:17. | |
future of anything that we can learn from how prisons work in other | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
countries, perhaps we could learn from some of the experiences in | :34:22. | :34:24. | |
Norway and elsewhere. One thing is for sure, the USA model of huge | :34:25. | :34:26. | |
privately run several prisons is not the way to go. To conclude, can the | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
Secretary of State tell us, 380 prisoners are being transferred from | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
HMP Birmingham, where have they been transferred to, is G4S back running | :34:37. | :34:42. | |
things in Birmingham now, will the government review the role of G4S | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
and private companies in running a prisons and though she finally | :34:48. | :34:50. | |
realise that it was wrong and dangerous to cut 6000 front-line | :34:51. | :34:56. | |
prison staff in the first place? The crisis in our prisons is a symptom | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
of a failing government that has lost control. Since I was appointed | :35:02. | :35:11. | |
as Secretary of State for Justice in July I have been absolutely clear | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
that we need to improve safety in prisons and that the levels of | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
violence we currently have is unacceptable. We are investing a | :35:21. | :35:28. | |
further ?500 million over the next three years, which was announced in | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
the Autumn Statement, as part of our present safety and reform plan. He | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
talks about psychoactive drugs and what we have done about that, what | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
we have done is to put in tests to be able to detect those drugs and we | :35:42. | :35:45. | |
have trained up people and officers to be able to detect those drugs. We | :35:46. | :35:51. | |
have role that out across the prison estate. We are also running out new | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
measures to deal with mobile phones and we are investing in a ?3 million | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
intelligence unit. The most important thing is staff and I have | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
huge respect for prison officers and the work that they do. That is why | :36:04. | :36:10. | |
we are strengthening the front line by 2500 officers, that will enable | :36:11. | :36:13. | |
us to ensure that we have one officer for every six prisoners, | :36:14. | :36:20. | |
enabling us to make prisons safer and also turning lives around. We're | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
getting a new apprenticeship scheme, we are creating a fast-track so we | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
can train up existing offices and get them promotion within the | :36:30. | :36:35. | |
service. This is a long-term programme but we have. We are taking | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
immediate action but everyone in this House needs to recognise that | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
it will take time to bring those people online and get those people | :36:45. | :36:48. | |
trained up. In the meantime we are ensuring there is a full | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
investigation at HMP Birmingham, a full police investigation, and the | :36:55. | :36:56. | |
perpetrators of this incident will feel the full force of the law. | :36:57. | :37:02. | |
Because the reality is that their actions put both staff and prisoners | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
at risk. He asked about G4S, they will be covering the cost of what | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
has happened at HMP Birmingham. Including the resources that have | :37:13. | :37:15. | |
been employed by the public sector. But we need to be honest, this is an | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
issue across the prison estate. We have the issues that private sector | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
prisons and public sector prisons. That is why our staff investments | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
are also going to be across the board. That is why reform measures | :37:29. | :37:35. | |
and increased transparency are going to apply to both public sector and | :37:36. | :37:42. | |
private sector prisons. He talked about the prison population and the | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
reality is it rose by 23,000 under the Labour government. Between 1997 | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
and 2010. It has been stable under this government since 2010. He | :37:54. | :38:00. | |
talked about short sentence prisoners, we have seen the number | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
of short sentence prisoners going down by 1500 since 2010. We have | :38:05. | :38:12. | |
seen increases in areas like sex offenders who rightly been put away | :38:13. | :38:19. | |
for those heinous crimes. We are reforming our prisons. This is going | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
to take time. We have got the right measures in place to turn the tide | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
and we need to turn our prisons into places of safety and perform. We | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
have taken immediate action to reduce risk across the estate but | :38:34. | :38:36. | |
everyone in this House has got to recognise that it will take time to | :38:37. | :38:40. | |
make sure that our prisons become the places we want them to be. I | :38:41. | :38:49. | |
welcome the Secretary of State as a bank statement and her frankness | :38:50. | :38:51. | |
about the seriousness of the situation. I join her in paying | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
tribute to the professionalism of prison staff especially Tornado | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
teams and others which operated very efficiently. This is a problem which | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
is built up over many years and for which all parties have to accept a | :39:06. | :39:09. | |
measure of responsibility. Wilshere ensured that the report not only | :39:10. | :39:15. | |
looks at the immediate issues that arise from what happened in | :39:16. | :39:19. | |
Birmingham prison but also lends the broader lessons about how best to | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
deal with dispersal of disruptive prisoners, how to deal with pressure | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
is on the estate under those circumstances, how to deal with the | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
problem of contractual difficulties in repairs to the estate, how to | :39:31. | :39:36. | |
deal sensibly with the problem of retention of experienced officers. I | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
just received an e-mail from a prison officer indicating that after | :39:41. | :39:45. | |
years of service he is leaving because of the failure of senior | :39:46. | :39:48. | |
management to listen consistently to the concerns of officers on line. We | :39:49. | :39:55. | |
need to listen so we can turn the tide around. Order. He is Chair of | :39:56. | :40:04. | |
the lustrous select committee governing these matters. -- but I | :40:05. | :40:15. | |
advise other members that they may seek to imitate his erudition and | :40:16. | :40:20. | |
not rival his leg. I thank my honourable friend for his comments. | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
He is right that those issues will be looked at in the investigation | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
taking place. In terms of staff retention, we are already doing work | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
in terms of retention bonuses, giving governors additional powers. | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
I can assure him that I have asked for further investigation into | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
precisely how we're to improve the tension. We have been meeting with | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
prison officers around the country and listening to their concerns in | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
areas like career progression and training and we will be taking | :40:53. | :40:58. | |
action on that as well. For those of us who have been following the | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
crisis in our prisons, nothing that happened in Winston Green in my | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
constituency on Friday came as a shock. The independent monitoring | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
report on HMP Birmingham found staff resource constraints gave cause for | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
concern and there was a lack of capacity to run the full prison | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
regime. What action was taken when the report was published and will | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
this be part of the investigation she is now promising and will she | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
tell us if there are other things she knows about that she has yet | :41:29. | :41:37. | |
failed to act upon. I would be happy to have a discussion about HMP | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
Bramham specifically. These are issues that we have across the | :41:41. | :41:47. | |
prison estate. Staff retention, psychoactive substances, the prisons | :41:48. | :41:49. | |
minister has a daily meeting looking at these and making sure we are | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
providing every governor regardless of whether public or private sector, | :41:55. | :41:56. | |
with the support that they need. tooth and mobile telephones are used | :41:57. | :42:06. | |
in prison for the furtherance of crime and violence. | :42:07. | :43:01. | |
we didn't read the report, the Prisons Minister constant contact | :43:02. | :43:25. | |
over these issues. Some reports suggested up to 75% of the have one | :43:26. | :43:33. | |
or more mental health problem. Would you agree with me that we are | :43:34. | :43:34. | |
unlikely to reform is until we reform the mental | :43:35. | :43:52. | |
health provision. I agree with my honourable friend, that is why we're | :43:53. | :43:58. | |
giving governors power mental health along with the NHS to make sure we | :43:59. | :44:00. | |
have the right services in our prisons. Does this mean, furthering | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
the question from my right honourable friend, that you read the | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
report and take absolutely no action at all? We talk to governors, | :44:11. | :44:20. | |
including the governor at HMP Birmingham. These are issues that | :44:21. | :44:26. | |
many prisons are facing. That is why we have taken action on psychoactive | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
substances, taking action on mobile phones, recruiting staff, also at | :44:32. | :44:41. | |
HMP Birmingham. No matter whether the prisons are state run or | :44:42. | :44:45. | |
privatised. For the record I believe they should be state run. Can I ask | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
my right honourable friend, whether they will be any new laws to act as | :44:52. | :44:57. | |
a deterrent for prisoners. If they assault a prison officer, there is | :44:58. | :45:00. | |
an automatic extension to their sentence. Can she informed the House | :45:01. | :45:06. | |
whether any move has been made? I will look at the issue that my | :45:07. | :45:14. | |
honourable friend races. Can I thank the Justice Secretary for the time | :45:15. | :45:17. | |
she afforded me earlier to discuss the incidents at HMP Hull at the | :45:18. | :45:24. | |
weekend. She won over Rob Nicholson of the prison officers Association | :45:25. | :45:31. | |
describing the situation as a powder keg waiting to go off. The prison | :45:32. | :45:39. | |
was put on lockdown, said to be on the brink of riot. Prison officers | :45:40. | :45:46. | |
tell me they are afraid to go to work. What can she do to assure the | :45:47. | :45:50. | |
public and those prison officers that they are safe to go to work? I | :45:51. | :45:56. | |
thank the honourable gentleman for his question. I discuss the specific | :45:57. | :46:00. | |
issue of Hull with the head of the prison service. There were two | :46:01. | :46:06. | |
incidents in Hull, they were dealt with. The issue has been dealt with | :46:07. | :46:14. | |
across-the-board. The government commitment to closing the Victorian | :46:15. | :46:21. | |
prisons which are no longer fit for purpose, and investing in | :46:22. | :46:23. | |
unprecedented amount of money on building new prisons. When will the | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
Secretary of State update us as to the prisons being closed and the new | :46:29. | :46:34. | |
prisons being opened? I thank my friend macro for the question, we | :46:35. | :46:38. | |
have a ?1.3 billion building programme. The first prison will be | :46:39. | :46:45. | |
HMP Bellerin, which will open in February. Bringing an additional | :46:46. | :46:50. | |
2100 places, reducing the crowding across the estate. I understand | :46:51. | :46:56. | |
listening to my honourable friend's comments in Hull the prisoners | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
involved in that were part of the prisoners who had been disbursed | :47:02. | :47:05. | |
from Birmingham. I wonder whether the Secretary of State can say | :47:06. | :47:09. | |
something about the dispersal programme and how that is working? I | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
thank the honourable lady for her question. Of course given the | :47:15. | :47:17. | |
condition of the wings at HMP Birmingham, the prison service | :47:18. | :47:22. | |
needed to disperse those individuals across the prison estate. That is | :47:23. | :47:28. | |
being carefully managed by the prison service, experienced in | :47:29. | :47:32. | |
dealing with those issues. There were incidents, dealt with at HMP | :47:33. | :47:40. | |
Hull, we are dealing with difficult individuals, and that is being | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
closely looked at. My right honourable friend mentioned the | :47:45. | :47:47. | |
discussions she was having with mobile phone providers. Is she doing | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
the same thing with drone manufacturers? My honourable friend | :47:52. | :47:58. | |
is correct, we are working with drone manufacturers to create no-fly | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
zones over prisons, and to deal with the scourge enabling contraband to | :48:04. | :48:10. | |
enter prisons. I can remember a time when a minister coming before this | :48:11. | :48:13. | |
House before such a serious incident may have had two shows a degree of | :48:14. | :48:25. | |
contrition. The reason that G4S have made a profit at HMP Birmingham is | :48:26. | :48:29. | |
because they have reduced the number of experienced an expensive staff | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
and replace them with cheaper and less experienced officers? I have | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
been very clear, we need to have experienced staff. 80% of staff | :48:38. | :48:43. | |
working for the prison service have been with us five or more years. I | :48:44. | :48:48. | |
am very keen to make sure we retain those staff, offering them promotion | :48:49. | :48:54. | |
opportunities. The levels of staffing are not set by G4S, they | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
are set by our overall prison policy. That is what I am changing | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
to make sure we have sufficient staff levels, investing in extra | :49:05. | :49:07. | |
?100 million a year in starting to make sure we have the right staffing | :49:08. | :49:12. | |
levels in both private and public sector prisons. We have a ready | :49:13. | :49:18. | |
heard about the dramatic rise in psychometric drug use. Phone use, | :49:19. | :49:27. | |
and the use of drones. I am told by my local prison officers, this is | :49:28. | :49:30. | |
because the level of prison officers has got dangerously low. Can my | :49:31. | :49:36. | |
honourable friend tell the House what measures thereafter interim | :49:37. | :49:39. | |
staffing levels until we can get them to higher levels? My honourable | :49:40. | :49:44. | |
friend is absolutely right, we do not have a sufficient staff in our | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
prisons. Which is why the additional investment is being put in by the | :49:50. | :49:54. | |
government. We started with ten of our most challenging prisons, where | :49:55. | :49:57. | |
we needed to recruit an extra 400 staff. We have put our job offers to | :49:58. | :50:04. | |
280 staff, which shows we can recruit. In 75% of prisons we don't | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
have a problem recruiting. In the areas we do, we are offering extra | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
retention payments to achieve those recruitment plans. Our prisons have | :50:14. | :50:22. | |
7000 fewer officers since 2010, a cut of 8%. Two thirds are | :50:23. | :50:29. | |
overcrowded, disturbances at many prisons, not just Birmingham which | :50:30. | :50:33. | |
we have discussed today. The level of suicide in our prisons is the | :50:34. | :50:36. | |
highest it has been for over 25 years. A truly shameful record. Very | :50:37. | :50:43. | |
little remorse from the Secretary of State today. Will she now apologise? | :50:44. | :50:47. | |
I have been very clear about the issues we have in our prisons | :50:48. | :50:54. | |
system. Since I secured this role in July, I have been focused on dealing | :50:55. | :50:59. | |
with them, making sure we make our prisons safer, making sure we invest | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
in our staff. Making sure we invest in mental health facilities in our | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
prisons to deal with the situation. The Justice Secretary says that the | :51:10. | :51:13. | |
Prisons Minister chairs daily meetings with the chief executive to | :51:14. | :51:16. | |
the prison service, to monitor prisons for risk factors that may | :51:17. | :51:20. | |
indicate potential violence and unrest. Why was the risk of serious | :51:21. | :51:28. | |
violence HMP Birmingham not raised in those daily meetings? If it was | :51:29. | :51:31. | |
not raised, what is the point of having the daily meetings? I thank | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
my honourable friend for his question, I'm sure he will recognise | :51:37. | :51:40. | |
with an operational service like the prison service, we can reduce and | :51:41. | :51:44. | |
minimise risk, we cannot eliminate it completely. That is what the | :51:45. | :51:48. | |
efforts of the daily meetings are about. Reducing the level of | :51:49. | :51:54. | |
violence, giving governors what they need to keep our prisons are safe as | :51:55. | :52:00. | |
possible. What I would say, when the incident did occur, it was dealt | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
with extremely effectively by the tornado teams. I want to see a more | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
stable prison estate, that means building extra capacity so we don't | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
have overcrowding, investing in staff, so we have prisons staff at a | :52:15. | :52:19. | |
proper level. I have to tell the House, it will take time. Whilst we | :52:20. | :52:23. | |
are seeking to minimise risk, we cannot prevent every incident from | :52:24. | :52:32. | |
happening. Given the level of assaults on staff, and on prisoners, | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
and on this order in prisons generally, it is higher in the | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
private sector for prisoners, than the public sector, could she tell | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
the House how many of the extra staff will be employed by the | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
private sector, over which she has no direct control over recruitment? | :52:49. | :52:57. | |
I thank the honourable gentleman for his question. If you look at the way | :52:58. | :53:02. | |
we recruit prisons, the performance of the private and public sector is | :53:03. | :53:07. | |
relatively equivalent. No significant difference between the | :53:08. | :53:10. | |
private and public sector. We set the levels of staff that the private | :53:11. | :53:16. | |
sector have to employ. We're moving to a 1-6 ratio in both the public | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
and private sector. All of our evidence suggests that is enough to | :53:22. | :53:26. | |
make sure we keep prisons safe, but also importantly we are reforming | :53:27. | :53:30. | |
prisons. Reducing the cost of reoffending. The Secretary of State | :53:31. | :53:37. | |
in her statement said these matters have been developing over a number | :53:38. | :53:42. | |
of years. Isn't it the case that between 1997 and 2010, there were no | :53:43. | :53:47. | |
category a escapes, no rights like this. Since then there have been two | :53:48. | :53:53. | |
category eight escapes, and many other escapes. There have been | :53:54. | :53:57. | |
record numbers of suicides, and a record numbers of homicides in our | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
prisons. Why should we trust her party to run the prison service? I | :54:03. | :54:08. | |
have absolutely said we have seen significant rises in violence in | :54:09. | :54:14. | |
over recent years. That is why we have launched the prison safety and | :54:15. | :54:19. | |
reform plan. The first thing I did when I became Secretary of State, | :54:20. | :54:22. | |
making sure we dealt with those issues. We have face new challenges | :54:23. | :54:27. | |
like psychoactive drugs, mobile phones, which were not an issue | :54:28. | :54:32. | |
before. I would say to the honourable lady, since the inception | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
of prisons we have not seriously impacted the reoffending rate, that | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
is a challenge we face as a country costing us 15 billion. Is important | :54:41. | :54:48. | |
that we make prison also full of reducing reoffending. They have two | :54:49. | :54:55. | |
for both -- they have to follow both. It is a pity the Secretary of | :54:56. | :55:03. | |
State will not admit that prisons a crisis. Why is G4S involved in the | :55:04. | :55:15. | |
first place? Look at its past. I appreciate that the honourable | :55:16. | :55:19. | |
gentleman, the member for Hexham, an illustrious government whip is very | :55:20. | :55:22. | |
excited in the approach to his wedding. I would advise him that the | :55:23. | :55:31. | |
ascent on him of a Zen like calm will aid his preparations. The | :55:32. | :55:39. | |
organisation that had to pay back her own department 109 million for | :55:40. | :55:47. | |
overcharging. Medway secured Centre, the Yarwood immigration detention | :55:48. | :55:51. | |
centre. Many other cases where that organisation has been involved. Time | :55:52. | :55:59. | |
for G4S told very clearly their organisation is no longer needed in | :56:00. | :56:05. | |
our prison service. I would point out to the honourable gentleman, the | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
decision to put HMP Birmingham out to private tender was a Labour | :56:10. | :56:22. | |
decision in 2009. I appreciate the right honourable gentleman is an | :56:23. | :56:25. | |
illustrious former Prisons Minister, eager to make his point with great | :56:26. | :56:35. | |
force. Border. Order. I know you're trying to aid matters, you are | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
disadvantage me in facilitating good order. Your assistance may be | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
required at some unspecified point in the future. We must the answers | :56:45. | :56:46. | |
from the Secretary of State. The issues we have, the underlying | :56:47. | :56:55. | |
causes in the rise of psychoactive drugs which the prison and | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
probations ombudsman described as a game changer, it's not having a | :57:01. | :57:05. | |
sufficient level of staff, which I've addressed in the white paper, | :57:06. | :57:08. | |
it's the rise of mobile phones, gangs and drugs and bullying. Those | :57:09. | :57:12. | |
issues are common to the public and private sector. Those issues are | :57:13. | :57:19. | |
what this Government is addressing. Thank you Mr Speaker. Will the | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
Secretary of State now acknowledge that cutting ?700 million from the | :57:25. | :57:31. | |
Prison Service since 2010 is at the root of the cause of these | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
difficulties and will she now apologise to the House and say that | :57:37. | :57:45. | |
this was a false economy? As I've already said, since I started this | :57:46. | :57:50. | |
job in July, I have been clear that we do need additional staff in our | :57:51. | :57:55. | |
Prison Service to face the new challenges, such as psychoactive | :57:56. | :57:59. | |
drugs, and mobile phones, and gangs in our prisons. We are putting the | :58:00. | :58:03. | |
money in. That's been announced in the Autumn Statement. We have a | :58:04. | :58:07. | |
comprehensive programme of reform. A lot of the problems in our prison | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
have been decade-long problems. That's why, for the first time ever, | :58:12. | :58:16. | |
we're making it clear in legislation the reform is a key purpose of | :58:17. | :58:18. | |
prison. THE SPEAKER: Let's hear the fellow | :58:19. | :58:25. | |
from Wrexham. I'm very grateful Mr Speaker. You're | :58:26. | :58:32. | |
most accommodating. The Secretary of State has already mentioned HM | :58:33. | :58:40. | |
prison Berwyn in Wrexham, the largest prison in western Europe | :58:41. | :58:43. | |
with 2,000 men reside thering in due course. Will she meet with me so | :58:44. | :58:48. | |
that I can discuss with her the arrangements in place for the | :58:49. | :58:52. | |
opening to allay some of the concerns of my constituents, which | :58:53. | :58:56. | |
she can imagine on a day like today have risen somewhat? I'd be very | :58:57. | :59:00. | |
pleased to meet the honourable gentlemanment -- honourable | :59:01. | :59:05. | |
gentleman. If she's looking for some light reading over Christmas, she | :59:06. | :59:09. | |
would do well to get a copy of the book written by the honourable | :59:10. | :59:13. | |
member for Hexham, doing time, prisons in the 21st century, which | :59:14. | :59:18. | |
has a number of ideas. If I heard you correctly, Mr Speaker, about his | :59:19. | :59:21. | |
intended marriage, maybe that will help pay for the cost of the wedding | :59:22. | :59:23. | |
if the Secretary of State was able if the Secretary of State was able | :59:24. | :59:26. | |
to buy a copy? The point I want to make is there are 9,971 foreign | :59:27. | :59:31. | |
national prisoners in our prisons at the moment. In order to reduce the | :59:32. | :59:36. | |
prison population, what further steps are being taken to get the | :59:37. | :59:39. | |
foreign national prisoners back to their country of origin? | :59:40. | :59:45. | |
THE SPEAKER: Book sales will now increase no doubt manifold. I'm sure | :59:46. | :59:53. | |
the honourable gentleman this book already has pride of place on my | :59:54. | :59:58. | |
book shelf. I thoroughly recommend it to everybody in the House. My | :59:59. | :00:02. | |
honourable friend is very, very committed to prison reform, so much | :00:03. | :00:05. | |
that he agreed to become a whip in my department to keep an eye on us | :00:06. | :00:09. | |
and making sure we're on the right track. But the honourable gentleman | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
is absolutely right about foreign national offenders. That's an issue | :00:14. | :00:24. | |
we're very much dealing with. Taken over by G4S and then by the prisons, | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
the independent monitoring report says staff shortages are a major | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
issue, "On too many occasions in many areas the services were reduced | :00:33. | :00:40. | |
by being insufficient staff". It was the very theme of their report. | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
Whose fault is it, the private operator or the Government? I thank | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
the honourable gentleman for his question. Clearly, there are issues | :00:47. | :00:53. | |
across our prison estate. There are not sufficient time out of cell. | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
It's one of the things we're going to be measuring in our new reform | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
measures. We don't have sufficient staff to be able to keep our prisons | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
safe and be able to reform offenders, which is what we need to | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
do. It took three written Parliamentary | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
questions for me to get the Government to confess that there was | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
only oneries anyone Britain that was free of illegal drug use. It took a | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
fourth question to get the information that prison had no | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
prisoners because it had closed down. This is similar toe mattic of | :01:29. | :01:35. | |
-- symptom attic of the Government being in denial of the corruption | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
and chaos in our Prison Service and hasn't the Government's policies for | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
the past six years been like the minister's statement today, evidence | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
free and ignorance rich. I congratulate the honourable | :01:51. | :01:57. | |
gentleman on the acidious nature of his Parliamentary questions which | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
has elucidated an answer. If he reads the prison safety and reform | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
white paper, he will see there is a whole section on how we deal with | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
the issue of drugs, testing offenders on entry and exit, making | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
sure that governors are held accountable for getting people off | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
drugs, that is the way we're going to crack this problem. | :02:17. | :02:24. | |
As my honourable friend the Shadow secretary has pointed out, this is | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
the worst prison disturbance since the Strangeways riots of 1990. The | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
Wolf report recommended that no establishment should hold more | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
prisoners than is provided for its certified normal level of | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
accommodation. It's reported that HMP Birmingham was overcrowded by | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
almost a third last year. Has this Government learned no lessons at all | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
from the riots of 26 years ago? I thank the honourable lady for her | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
question. I've discussed the issue she mentions with Lord Wolf. She's | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
absolutely right this was a very, very serious disturbance at HMP | :03:04. | :03:06. | |
Birmingham. That's where we're investing 1. 3 billion in our prison | :03:07. | :03:13. | |
build programme to create extra capacity to eliminate overcrowding | :03:14. | :03:20. | |
in the prison estate. Mr Speaker, the Howard league published a report | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
indicating all Welsh prisons have seen a fall in the number of ofgsers | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
compared to last year. What Shh... Is she doing to ensure the Welsh | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
prison estate is equipped with sufficient staffing levels, | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
especially as it's the policy of UK Government to build in wrem ham one | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
of the largest in Europe to house prisoners from overcrowded prisons | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
in England? I thank the honourable gentleman for his question. We have | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
very great recruitment plans and programmes in place. We've already | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
recruited a significant number for the first ten prisons, including one | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
in Wales and we will be following that through with new apprenticeship | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
programmes, graduate entry programmes and also making sure that | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
staff in our Prison Service are able to gain promotion and get the | :04:08. | :04:09. | |
training they need to process. -- progress. | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
The president of the National Council of independent monitoring | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
boards is John Thornhill, he says the boards are frustrated bit lack | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
of response to the issues raised in her annual reports. Can the | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
Secretary of State tell me three specific and sub-Stan Tiff actions | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
taken as a result of the relevant monitoring board's latest annual | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
report into Birmingham? I thank the honourable gentleman for his | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
question. The white paper is very clear about reforming and making | :04:40. | :04:47. | |
sure that IMB recommendations are taken seriously and working closely | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
with Her Majesty's Inspectorate of prisons. At the moment there is no | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
duty for the Secretary of State to respond. That's what we're putting | :04:55. | :04:57. | |
in place to make sure it triggers action. How many staff were on duty | :04:58. | :05:07. | |
when the riots started? And what's her estimate of the cost of the | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
disturbance? I thank the honourable gentleman for his question. I've | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
recounted the events of the day as far as we are aware of them. But | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
there will be a full investigation that will make all of those facts | :05:22. | :05:23. | |
clear. THE SPEAKER: The honourable | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
gentleman is a noted thespian, I know therefore he will greatly enjoy | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
the warm ack La mags that he receives when he rises from his | :05:32. | :05:41. | |
seat. Mr Speaker, no-one could seriously for a moment attempt to | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
deny that there is a something rotten in the prison estate at this | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
moment. I would like to give credit of finally considering the issue of | :05:53. | :05:59. | |
post release work. She has an her benches the greatest expert in | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
Parliament on that particular subject. Would she have the | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
gentleman, the member for Crewe, to give a report to the House in say | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
six months' time on what the Government is doing for post-release | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
employment? It is that crucial? The honourable gentleman is absolutely | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
right. Making sure that people have a job to go to when they leave | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
custody is vital. I'm already working very closely with members of | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
the honourable member for Crewe's family on this. In fact, the prisons | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
minister will be publishing a report on this issue next year. Plans about | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
how we're going to make sure that governors are held accountable for | :06:43. | :06:45. | |
how effective they are at getting offenders in their prison into work. | :06:46. | :06:55. | |
THE SPEAKER: Order. It's a point of a clarification for the minister if | :06:56. | :06:57. | |
she may. THE SPEAKER: I hope it isn't a | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
continuation of the debate? Well, he's got an honest face, I'll give | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
him a chance. Point of order. Thank you Mr Speaker, the Lord Chancellor | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
indicated that the Labour Government privatised HMP Birmingham. Could she | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
agree that the Ministry of Justice announced in March 2011 that G 4 H | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
would take over HMP Birmingham. THE SPEAKER: The honourable | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
gentleman has made his own point in his own way. The point I made was | :07:28. | :07:34. | |
the decision to put HMP Birmingham out to tender was made by Labour. | :07:35. | :07:45. | |
THE SPEAKER: Order. Order. There's quite a lot of eccentric Jess tick | :07:46. | :07:54. | |
Haitian going on -- gesticulation. Consult the record, it would be very | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
useful to read and digest the official report tomorrow morning | :08:00. | :08:01. | |
over breakfast. The honourable gentleman will probably find it | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
therapeutic. I'm grateful to the Secretary of State. Order. Statement | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
the Secretary Of state for defence. Secretary | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
Michael Fallon. With permission, Mr Speaker, I would | :08:12. | :08:26. | |
like to update the House on an announcement that was made in Riyadh | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
earlier today on the conflict in Yemen. In 2014, Houthi forces and | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
those loyal to former president S arrest lah took over the capital and | :08:37. | :08:43. | |
forced out the government. Hugy forces have consequently attacked | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
Saudi territory, shelling villages daily and killing Saudi civilians. A | :08:48. | :08:53. | |
ten-country Saudi-led coalition intervened to restore the | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
government, to deter further Houthi aggression and defend the Saudi | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
border. United Nations Security Council resolution 2216 condemned | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
the Houthi's actions. The United Kingdom fully supports both the | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
coalition and the right of Saudi Arabia to defend itself. Instability | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
in Yemen, where there is a long standing presence of Al-Qaeda, and a | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
growing threaten from Daesh, seen tragically in Aidan this weekend, | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
threatens not just the Gulf but our security in western Europe. Concerns | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
have been raised in this House and by nongovernmental organisations | :09:35. | :09:36. | |
about our export of military equipment to Saudi Arabia and | :09:37. | :09:42. | |
elsewhere in the Gulf. There have been allegations about breaches of | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
international humanitarian law. Because we operate one of the | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
strictest arms export control regimes in the world, we take any | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
such allegations very seriously and we do our best to ensure that they | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
are properly investigated by the coalition. Following the air strike | :10:01. | :10:07. | |
on the Great Hall on October 26 this year, for example, I spoke to the | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
Saudi Defence Minister, the Foreign Secretary spoke to his counterpart | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
and the Parliamentary under secretary for the Foreign Office | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
travelled to Riyadh to underline our concerns in person. The coalition's | :10:20. | :10:26. | |
joint incidence assessment team subsequently announced interim | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
findings within a week. The coalition committed to review its | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
rules of engagement and command and control systems and to take action | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
against those held responsible. We acknowledge the progress they have | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
made and we look forward to the completed investigation on that | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
incident. The coalition continues to investigate other allegations. The | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
findings of eight investigations were announced on 4th August and a | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
further five on the 6th December. We are pressing the coalition to | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
complete all the remaining investigations as quickly as | :11:01. | :11:07. | |
possible. One specific allegations that UK supplied cluster munitions | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
were used in January this year was raised in this House on 24th May. | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
The United Kingdom signed the convention on cluster munitions in | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
2008 and has not supplied any such weons to Saudi Arabia -- weapons to | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
Saudi Arabia since 1989, over a quarter of a century ago. Our | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
initial view, set out by the then minister of state for defence | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
procurement and based on the information we held at the time, was | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
that a UK weapon had not been used but we committed to analyse the | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
allegation and to seek a full investigation by the coalition. That | :11:48. | :11:56. | |
investigation has now concluded. The coalition confirmed earlier today | :11:57. | :12:03. | |
that a limited number of BL 755 cluster munitions exported from the | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
United Kingdom in the 1980s were dropped in Yemen, including in the | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
incident alleged by amnesty international, not far from the | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
Saudi border by a coalition aircraft. | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
The coalition whose members are not party to the convention, has said | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
that the munitions were used against a legitimate military target and did | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
not, therefore, contravene international humanitarian law. | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
However, Saudi Arabia has now confirmed that they will not further | :12:41. | :12:47. | |
use BL755 cluster munitions, and I welcome that. This particular | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
instance shows that with our support, and in complete contrast to | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
Russian and Syrian air strikes, that where allegations are made the Saudi | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
led coalition is prepared to investigate thoroughly, to publish | :13:04. | :13:10. | |
the findings, and take action where appropriate. I can assure the House | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
that we will continue to keep current sales of military equipment | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
to Saudi Arabia and two other Gulf allies under review, in accordance | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
with our arms export criteria, and I commend this statement to the House. | :13:24. | :13:30. | |
Mr Speaker, can I thank the Secretary of State for his statement | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
and advance sight of it. Mr Speaker, we are all deeply concerned about | :13:36. | :13:42. | |
the ongoing conflict in Yemen. And the dire humanitarian situation this | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
has caused. As the House is aware there have been widespread | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
allegations from both sides of the conflict that they have violated | :13:52. | :13:54. | |
international law. The latest revelation that the UK made cluster | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
munitions used by the Saudi coalition in Yemen is deeply | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
worrying. Not only are these weapons dangerous but they come with a toxic | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
legacy lying on battlefields and threatening civilians, especially | :14:11. | :14:13. | |
children, long after a conflict has ended. In 2008 the last Labour | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
government signed the Convention on cluster munitions. The strikes the | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
Secretary of State has described today amount to be first confirmed | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
use of UK made cluster bombs since that date. Can the Secretary of | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
State tell the House when was he first made aware of the possible use | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
of such weapons by the coalition in Yemen and why has it taken so long | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
to confirm that these weapons were in fact used? A few days ago the | :14:45. | :14:50. | |
Secretary of State will be aware that the Obama administration | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
blocked the sale of guided munitions kits over concerns about civilian | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
casualties. This followed the United States' blocking of the sale of | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
cluster munitions to the state of Saudi Arabia. The Foreign Minister | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
has said that the test for British arms sales is "Whether those weapons | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
might be used in the commission of a serious breach of international | :15:13. | :15:19. | |
humanitarian law". I know the Defence Secretary has confirmed that | :15:20. | :15:22. | |
a limited number of cluster munitions supplied by this country | :15:23. | :15:25. | |
were dropped in Yemen by a coalition aircraft. Although these cluster | :15:26. | :15:32. | |
munitions were exported in the 1980s, will the Government commit to | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
examining whether its current policy needs to be changed? Surely they | :15:36. | :15:43. | |
have been actions which are wholly unacceptable and this country cannot | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
sit on its hands. The Government has consistently rejected calls for | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
independent United Nations led investigation into a possible breach | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
of a humanitarian and international law in the Yemen. In light of what | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
we have learned today, could I implore the Government to heed calls | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
from these benches, as well as from the business foreign affairs and | :16:09. | :16:10. | |
International Development Committee is to have such an inquiry. We need | :16:11. | :16:17. | |
such an inquiry so that we can have independent verification of all the | :16:18. | :16:20. | |
actions of both sides in this conflict. Finally, Mr Speaker, on | :16:21. | :16:27. | |
the humanitarian situation, can the Secretary of State set out what | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
action is being taken to help the 14 million people in need of urgent | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
food and the 13 million Yemenis who lack access to clean water. In | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
particular, we would like to know what is being done to help those | :16:41. | :16:43. | |
children suffering so desperately in this conflict. | :16:44. | :16:50. | |
I'm grateful to the honourable gentleman. We all want to see this | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
conflict brought to an end, and I hope we would be evenhanded about | :16:55. | :17:01. | |
that. Over 90 Saudi civilians have lost their lives through this | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
conflict through shelling over their border into Saudi Arabia and over | :17:05. | :17:07. | |
500, including women and children, have been injured and it is | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
important those are set alongside other allegations of civilian | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
casualties in Yemen itself. He asks me when we first became aware of | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
this allegation. We were made aware of it in the spring, it was brought | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
to the floor of this House in May. Our own analysis began. I wrote back | :17:28. | :17:36. | |
to Amnesty at the end of June telling them we had commenced work | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
on our own analysis. But our analysis could only take us so far. | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
The investigation itself was a matter for the Saudi authorities and | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
that is the investigation that has continued throughout the autumn and | :17:50. | :17:56. | |
has only concluded in the last few days. And we too have been | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
frustrated by the length of time that it has taken. But the | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
investigation is being carried out and it has now got us to the | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
transparent admission that has been made this morning. The asked me | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
about the United States stopping the supply of munitions. We should be | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
careful here, the United States has only stopped one munitions license. | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
They continue to supply combat aircraft, attack helicopters, and | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
other munitions to Saudi Arabia. Only one licence has been stopped. | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
We have a different process as he has described, and it is an arms | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
control process that we keep under continuous review. He asked me what | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
our current policy on cluster munitions weapons is. It is exactly | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
the same as it was left under the Labour government. We oppose the use | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
of cluster munitions, let me be very clear to the House. We are | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
signatories, we are parties to that convention and we opposed the use of | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
cluster munitions. We have made that very clear to the Saudi authorities, | :19:04. | :19:11. | |
and we therefore welcome their announcement today that they will no | :19:12. | :19:20. | |
longer use cluster munitions. That is a result from this investigation | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
and the pressure that we have been putting on. Finally he asked me | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
about an independent inquiry. We have been clear throughout that an | :19:30. | :19:36. | |
allegation like this is first for the Saudi authorities and the | :19:37. | :19:38. | |
coalition authorities to investigate. They have shown through | :19:39. | :19:45. | |
this process that they are able to do that. They have investigated. | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
They have today announced the findings and they have today taken | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
action as a result. Doctor Julian Lewis. | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
Have the Saudis explained why they used these British supplied weapons, | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
presumably in the knowledge it would cause considerable embarrassment to | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
the British Government? And what plans do they have to dispose of | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
their remaining stocks? The Saudis have made clear that they use these | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
munitions in a border area just a few kilometres from the Saudi border | :20:20. | :20:27. | |
in Yemen on a legitimate military target which may have been | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
responsible for some of the attacks and deaths they had been suffering | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
on their side of the border. They therefore stay that the use of these | :20:35. | :20:37. | |
cluster munitions, because they are not parties to the convention, does | :20:38. | :20:44. | |
not contravene international law. So far as stocks are concerned they | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
have made it clear they will not use UK supplied cluster munitions in | :20:49. | :20:51. | |
future, and I think we should all welcome that. Mr Brendan O'Hara. Mr | :20:52. | :20:57. | |
Speaker, we on these benches have been clear for many, many months | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
that there have been undeniable violations of international | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
humanitarian law by Saudi Arabia in its conflict in Yemen. There is | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
overwhelming evidence that the Saudis have been failing to conduct | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
military operations lawfully, a situation indeed that caused the | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
United States to join the Netherlands and Germany in | :21:17. | :21:19. | |
suspending arms sales to Saudi Arabia very recently. Once again, Mr | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
Speaker, Madame Deputy Speaker, the Saudi regime stands accused of | :21:25. | :21:27. | |
routinely using cluster bombs against the Yemeni people, a weapon | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
even this government describes as unjustifiable because it is designed | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
to kill and injure civilians. Today's revelations aren't | :21:39. | :21:41. | |
particularly new, but unless the Government acts immediately to end | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
arms sales to Saudi Arabia the court of public opinion will find it | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
guilty of collusion and violations of international humanitarian law. | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
Madame Deputy Speaker, I have a couple of questions. Can the | :21:55. | :21:57. | |
Secretary of State tell us when did you first see the analysis | :21:58. | :22:00. | |
confirming the UK cluster bombs, and is up-to-date's Guardian article | :22:01. | :22:06. | |
correct in saying he first saw it a month ago? And if that is the case | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
why is the House only finding out now after it appeared in the press? | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
His statement says that the cluster bombs were used against legitimate | :22:17. | :22:22. | |
military targets, and therefore did not contravene international | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
humanitarian law. But how can we continue to do business with a | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
regime who routinely use cluster bombs against civilian populations? | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
This country is a signatory to the treaty which obliges us to stop | :22:35. | :22:42. | |
other people using such munitions. And finally, Madame Deputy Speaker, | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
can I ask, what does a regime have to do? How many breaches of | :22:47. | :22:49. | |
international humanitarian law must it commit before this government | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
deems them an unacceptable partner to deal in arms? | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
First of all, I'm not sure the honourable gentleman was listening. | :23:02. | :23:04. | |
The United States has not suspended arms sales to Saudi Arabia, he is | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
incorrect about that. They have suspended one sale of munitions. | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
They continue to sell munitions generally to Saudi Arabia, they | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
continue to supply aircraft and attack helicopters. Secondly, there | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
is no evidence that cluster munitions have been routinely used | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
in Yemen. On the contrary, this allegation stood out for what it is. | :23:30. | :23:36. | |
This allegation stood out for what it is, and it has been thoroughly | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
investigated, and as a result of that investigation, and as a result | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
of our pressure, we have now an undertaking from Saudi Arabia that | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
they will not use cluster munitions of this kind in the future, and | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
indeed that Saudi Arabia is now considering becoming a party to the | :23:56. | :24:02. | |
Convention. He asked me when I first became aware of the analysis that we | :24:03. | :24:11. | |
were doing. We started analyses as my Right Honourable friend the | :24:12. | :24:14. | |
member for defence procurement, told the House in May, that we would look | :24:15. | :24:20. | |
hard at this allegation. We began our analysis but we were not | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
investigating this allegation, only the coalition could investigate this | :24:24. | :24:26. | |
allegation because only the coalition had access to all the | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
information that would be needed to see whether this particular | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
allegation was justified. That investigation has taken a long time, | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
I concede that but we now have the result, and we now have the | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
admission from the Saudi authorities that cluster munitions were used | :24:46. | :24:47. | |
together with the undertaking that they won't be used in the future. | :24:48. | :24:57. | |
Are the Saudis correct in seeing the existence of an Iranian backed | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
Houthi regime on their southern border as an existential threat to | :25:02. | :25:08. | |
the kingdom? In a word, yes, and they are seeing villages being | :25:09. | :25:11. | |
shelled on a daily basis across-the-board and I have yet to | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
hear any member on the benches opposite condemn that shelling, or | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
taking any notice of the lives that have been lost, the innocent lives | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
that have been lost, on the Saudi side of the border. As well, of | :25:26. | :25:28. | |
course, as the innocent lives that are being lost in the conflict in | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
Yemen. Absolutely, Saudi Arabia has the right to defend itself. Keith | :25:34. | :25:40. | |
Vaz. Thank you, Madame Deputy Speaker. I am glad he and is being | :25:41. | :25:43. | |
discussed in the House again today but sad and disappointed that it is | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
for these reasons. Of course I accept the assurances given by the | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
Minister, and I know that he will ensure that the Saudi Arabian | :25:52. | :25:54. | |
government will also keep to their promise. But what the people of | :25:55. | :25:57. | |
Yemen need over the next few days is a ceasefire. Bombs, famine and | :25:58. | :26:05. | |
cholera, the country is starving to death and desperately needs that | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
ceasefire. The Prime Minister said the minister, the member for | :26:10. | :26:12. | |
Bournemouth East, who has done so much work on this issue was in | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
Riyadh yesterday. Can he give us any further information as to how we can | :26:16. | :26:21. | |
get this ceasefire so the aid can start getting through to save the | :26:22. | :26:24. | |
people of Yemen before it's too late? That's a very constructive | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
approach from the honourable gentleman, I know of his interest in | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
chairing the all-party group. We are trying as a government to do two | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
things, first to bring about the ceasefire that he seeks and that we | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
have all sought in Yemen by getting the parties together, because in the | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
end there has to be some kind of political settlement in Yemen. We | :26:46. | :26:52. | |
have been working towards that end. Second, my honourable friend was in | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
Riyadh just yesterday, I believe, working on this. We need urgently to | :26:57. | :27:02. | |
get the ports, including head I do, properly opened, so we can get | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
humanitarian aid in, particularly for the civilian population so | :27:08. | :27:08. | |
desperately needed now. Bill Wiggin. Can he talk about the relationship | :27:09. | :27:17. | |
we have with Saudi Arabia and how it keeps our streets safer here? Yeah, | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
Saudi Arabia is a key partner in our fight against terrorism. We depend | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
on each other's intelligence. There are terrorist plots to this country, | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
of which we have been forewarned by Saudi Arabia and it is essential for | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
our own security that we keep our relationship with Saudi Arabia in | :27:40. | :27:47. | |
good repair. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I'm so the sorry to say | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
that those of us with long memories, this reminds me of the sort of | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
discussions we used to have on arms to Iraq. Eventually we had an | :27:56. | :28:03. | |
inquiry and we found that Government ministers had misled us. I won't put | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
it any stronger than that. Those on here at this time, they should | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
reflect on the kinds of answers that were given to us. We knew what was | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
going on in Iraq. We know what's going on in the Yemen. How can we | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
possibly support continuing to send arms to Saudi Arabia, which are | :28:24. | :28:29. | |
being used in that country? As somebody who was here part of the | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
time during that process, I certainly recall the very close | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
attention the House eventually paid to the sale of arms to Iraq. Now we | :28:39. | :28:45. | |
have partly as a result of exactly what happened in the 1980s, a very | :28:46. | :28:53. | |
tough arms export control regime. We keep our armeds sales -- arms sales | :28:54. | :29:00. | |
under continuous review. We weigh up each successive license, when it's | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
brought before ministers. But we need also to be very clear that | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
Saudi Arabia has the right to defend itself and Saudi Arabia is coming | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
quite legitimately to answer the call of the legitimate government of | :29:14. | :29:21. | |
Yemen in coming to its aid. I must say, earlier I wascy little | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
surprised to hear it's almost three decades ago since we last sold | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
cluster munitions to sowedament but it was heartening to -- Saudi | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
Arabia. But it's heartening to hear they've agreed to no longer use | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
them. Can my right honourable friend tell me whether any UK personnel is | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
used in supporting the continued mans nens to allow the cluster | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
munitions to be used since we signed the convention in 2008. I'm happy to | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
give my honourable friend that very specific assurance. No United | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
Kingdom personnel have been involved in the storage, the transport, the | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
maintenance or the deployment of any cluster munitions in Saudi Arabia. | :30:03. | :30:09. | |
I'm sure everyone in this House would condemn the murder of Saudi | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
civilians in the way they do Yemeni civilians. We're talking about the | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
sale of UK weapons to Saudi. How many times have cluster munitions | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
been dropped? And have they been drop ped on any occasions by | :30:24. | :30:29. | |
UK-supplied aircraft. Were all the targets legitimate military targets? | :30:30. | :30:32. | |
And what the UK involvement in the targeting? We are only aware of this | :30:33. | :30:39. | |
single allegation that has now been fully investigated by the Saudi | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
authorities, a single allegation that cluster munitions were used in | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
this particular incident around the turn of the year and as the Saudis | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
have made clear today, have been dropped by a coalition aircraft. I'm | :30:55. | :30:58. | |
sorry, he asked me a second question? By a coalition aircraft is | :30:59. | :31:05. | |
what the Saudis have said today. He had a further question, I'm sorry? | :31:06. | :31:13. | |
They were all legitimate targets? So far as the target is concerned, the | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
Saudi authorities have said today that these munitions were used | :31:18. | :31:22. | |
against a legitimate military target in the border area between, on the | :31:23. | :31:28. | |
Yemeni side of the Saudi border. So far as UK involvement, we are not | :31:29. | :31:36. | |
involved in approving or selecting targets for the coalition in Yemen. | :31:37. | :31:45. | |
Iran, North Korea, Cuba, we see what happens when countries are shunned | :31:46. | :31:50. | |
bit international community. Does my right honourable friend agree with | :31:51. | :31:53. | |
me, it's positive engagement through the diplomatic service with our | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
ally, Saudi Arabia, that will influence this process and not | :31:58. | :31:59. | |
shunning them like some on the benches opposite suggest? Exactly. | :32:00. | :32:06. | |
There is nothing to be gained by shunning or boycotting Saudi Arabia. | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
On the contrary, Saudi Arabia is on the cusp of enormous social and | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
economic reforms, as well as being a key security partner and a key | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
trading partner and a key investment partner in this, in our own country, | :32:21. | :32:27. | |
Saudi Arabia now is on the cusp of a major reform programme of its | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
economy and its society. We ought to be playing our part in that, rather | :32:32. | :32:38. | |
than constantly calling from the side linesment Could the Secretary | :32:39. | :32:45. | |
of State of be clear what specific date did the Saudis inform him or | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
colleagues that they had used UK cluster munitions in Yemen? Given | :32:51. | :32:55. | |
the range of allegations, which still don't have answers, MSF are | :32:56. | :32:58. | |
questioning some of the investigations, why should we trust | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
Saudi Arabia that they have conducted operations lawfully and | :33:04. | :33:06. | |
appropriately? The official confirmation about this particular | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
allegation has come today, this afternoon, from Riyadh. I thought it | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
right that Parliament should be informed as soon as that | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
announcement was made in Riyadh. There are other investigations | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
outstanding. We continue to press the Saudi authorities to get those | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
investigations wrapped up, to get the findings published and then to | :33:28. | :33:32. | |
take action if there are weak bes in their -- weaknesses in their command | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
and control procedures to get them remedied. It is only through that, I | :33:38. | :33:41. | |
think, that they will demonstrate that the assurance that's they give | :33:42. | :33:44. | |
us and their other allies are properly valid. What analysis has | :33:45. | :33:53. | |
the Defence Secretary made of the humanitarian consequences of the | :33:54. | :34:00. | |
illicit redistribution of munitions, cluster munitions including BL 755 | :34:01. | :34:06. | |
from chaotic, failed and post-conflict states on civilian | :34:07. | :34:08. | |
populations throughout the Middle East and north Africa and much | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
further afield. Well, clearly, we oppose the use of cluster munitions. | :34:15. | :34:21. | |
We don't keep records of how these stocks that may have been | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
accumulated by countries in the Middle East have been later | :34:26. | :34:31. | |
distributed or sold on. Clearly, we oppose their use in any conflict | :34:32. | :34:40. | |
now. I welcome the secretary's statement but it is simply not the | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
case that this these British-made cluster munitions were used against | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
a legitimate military target. They were dropped in farmland in northern | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
Yemen, creating de facto mine fields which have killed and injured | :34:55. | :34:57. | |
civilians. It's taken over six months for the Saudi led coalition | :34:58. | :35:02. | |
to admit using these. Why now does the secretary give them the benefit | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
of the doubt over their use when such international humanitarian law | :35:08. | :35:11. | |
breaches are being alleged? I've not seen evidence that the dropping of | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
this particular munition has resulted in any civilian casualties. | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
On the contrary, this was a munition that from the, from all accounts had | :35:21. | :35:28. | |
not exploded probably because of its age. If she has evidence that any | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
civilians have been either killed or injured, we would very much like to | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
see it. The investigation, as I've made clear, has taken a while. We | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
have continued to press the Saudis that when something like this is | :35:42. | :35:44. | |
alleged, they need to be as transparent as possible. They need | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
to get on with the investigation. They need to reassure their allies | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
by simply publishing the findings. If something went wrong, then | :35:54. | :35:56. | |
admitting it went wrong and putting it right. That is not what happens | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
when we consider the Russian bombing of completely innocent civilians in | :36:02. | :36:07. | |
Aleppo. May I welcome my right honourable | :36:08. | :36:10. | |
friend's statement to the House today. Could I ask him to say a few | :36:11. | :36:13. | |
words on the regional situation that has led to this conflict. Clearly | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
the Iranian invasion in Yemen is causing many of the issues and while | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
he is talking about the regional situation, would he join with me in | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
offering condolences to the family of Russia's ambassador to Turkey, | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
who was tragically murdered today and agree with me that just because | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
we condemn Russian violence in Aleppo, does not mean we support | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
other violence against Russia in other parts of the world. I'm sure | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
the House will join with him and me in condemning the number dear of the | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
Russian ambassador to Turkey, a shocking act, involving a diplomat, | :36:50. | :36:55. | |
who should otherwise, of course, enjoy proper protection and whose | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
murder does not bring any conflict in the Middle East further to | :37:00. | :37:06. | |
resolution. There are, however, too many states in the Middle East who | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
are acting beyond their borders, like Iran, clearly involved | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
behind-the-scenes in Yemen, in prolonging a conflict that only | :37:17. | :37:18. | |
perpetuates the suffering the Yemeni people. I commend the Defence | :37:19. | :37:24. | |
Secretary on making a statement rather than being dragged here to be | :37:25. | :37:27. | |
given an urgent question. That's an important part of the way we do our | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
business here. I commend him for it. I support what he says about Saudi | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
Arabia having a right to defend itself. Surely the point is not at | :37:35. | :37:39. | |
any cost and not in any way. That's all we're trying to get at really. | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
So when the honourable member for Ludlow, who is an honourable man. I | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
don't think for an instant wanted to mislead the house, when you said in | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
May, based on all the information available to us, including sensitive | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
coalition operational reporting, we assess that no UK supplied cluster | :37:57. | :38:03. | |
munitions have been used, had he been lied to by coalition allies and | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
in which case, can we really trust anything that the Saudis say today? | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
No, as I made clear, that was his view at the time, based on the only | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
information that we had available, long before the investigation had | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
properly started, which has concluded today. That was the best | :38:22. | :38:27. | |
information he had at the time. On his first point, yes, and the | :38:28. | :38:32. | |
purpose of international humanitarian law is to recognise | :38:33. | :38:35. | |
that states have the right to defend themselves but they have to do so in | :38:36. | :38:41. | |
a way that is necessary, that is proportionate, that avoids hitting | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
the sick or the wounded and properly distinguishes between combatants and | :38:47. | :38:47. | |
noncombatants. That is the basis of noncombatants. That is the basis of | :38:48. | :38:53. | |
international humanitarian law. The Saudis believe, and he may not | :38:54. | :38:59. | |
accept this, the Saudis believe in this particular ins dented, this | :39:00. | :39:02. | |
edid respect international humanitarian law. How many BL 755 | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
cluster munitions were exported from this country to Saudi Arabia before | :39:07. | :39:12. | |
1989? What is their shelf life? And how many cluster munitions were used | :39:13. | :39:18. | |
in this particular incident? I don't have to hand and I'm not sure, | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
indeed we still have the reports from -- records from the 1980s as to | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
exactly how many cluster munitions were exported. I'm sorry to tell my | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
honourable friend I'm not so much of an expert as to know the precise | :39:33. | :39:44. | |
obselescence of this weapon. If he will allow me, I will wroo write to | :39:45. | :39:48. | |
him on those points. Can I welcome the minister's statement as well. | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
When I was on the Defence Select Committee along with the chair, | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
sitting here as well, we attended a joint meeting with the arms exports | :39:57. | :39:59. | |
sales committee, which some of the ministers here were at as well. We | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
were assured if evidence was proven to be true that action would be | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
taken. The proof has been confirmed today in relation to his statement. | :40:09. | :40:13. | |
Can we ask what sanctions will be taken against Saudi Arabia? Is it | :40:14. | :40:19. | |
too much to ask that the blanket bombing of Yemen's civilians, the | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
murder of innocents should stop immediately As I've made clear | :40:26. | :40:28. | |
throughout this evening, there are innocents being killed on both sides | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
in this terrible conflict and there are Saudi innocent civilians being | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
killed by Houthis through the shelling and constant attacks across | :40:38. | :40:44. | |
the Saudi-Yemeni border. He asks what action we're taking. We're the | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
ones who have pressed for this allegation to be properly | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
investigated and, although it may not satisfy the honourable | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
gentleman, we have the result today. We have a decision by the Saudi | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
government that it will no longer be using cluster munition weapons. That | :41:03. | :41:09. | |
is a result for us. Can I ask my right honourable | :41:10. | :41:12. | |
friend, what implications it would be for Britain if we didn't have a | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
close relationship with Saudi Arabia? Well, we would certainly be | :41:16. | :41:21. | |
weakened in our fight against terrorism. Our Security Services | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
would lose the cooperation we have with the Saudi authorities. But more | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
than that, Saudi is an investor in our country. It's a key trade | :41:31. | :41:36. | |
partner of ours in the Gulf. It's an important ally in promoting in | :41:37. | :41:39. | |
security the stability that we all want to see in the Middle East. | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
Ian Murray. The Secretary of State continues to | :41:45. | :41:51. | |
use the word allegation but this is no longer an allegation, it is a | :41:52. | :41:54. | |
proven fact that a British cluster bomb has been used in the conflict | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
in Yemen. Given it took seven months for the Saudi Arabian authorities in | :42:00. | :42:02. | |
his words to be transparent, committee honestly saying his | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
government's sanction on Saudi Arabia is enough to accept his | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
reassurance? He's right that from today we should describe this as a | :42:10. | :42:12. | |
fact rather than an allegation, I was calling it an allegation because | :42:13. | :42:15. | |
that is what it was when it was first brought before this House back | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
in May. But now we have the confirmation from Saudi Arabia that | :42:21. | :42:26. | |
a coalition aircraft did drop one of these cluster munitions around the | :42:27. | :42:32. | |
turn of the year. So far as sanctions are concerned, as I have | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
said it is this country that has pressed for all these allegations, | :42:38. | :42:40. | |
and some of them are still allegations, for all of these | :42:41. | :42:43. | |
allegations to be properly investigated, findings to be | :42:44. | :42:45. | |
published and where necessary for evidence from the Saudi coalition | :42:46. | :42:52. | |
authorities that changes have been made in their command and control, | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
or rules of engagement, or targeting procedures. Those are the results | :42:58. | :43:05. | |
that we want to see. I am pleased to hear the news that Saudi is no | :43:06. | :43:08. | |
longer using the cluster munitions, but will the government encourage | :43:09. | :43:14. | |
the Saudis not just stop using them but to destroy any remaining cluster | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
munitions that they have? I can tell my honourable friend that we have | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
put that request in to the Saudi government and I hope they will | :43:24. | :43:26. | |
accept that suggestion of hers and of hours. Nick Smith. | :43:27. | :43:33. | |
Thank you, Madame Deputy Speaker. Yemen is said to be one step away | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
from famine, so can our government help open the ports and the airports | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
so that humanitarian aid can be shipped to its people? | :43:43. | :43:50. | |
Yes. The key is to get aid into the country, and that means reopening | :43:51. | :43:53. | |
the ports that have been damaged in the fighting, particularly Hadidah. | :43:54. | :44:02. | |
Hadidah. Hadidah. So sorry. And making arrangements that will allow | :44:03. | :44:10. | |
the charities and NGOs to get on now with the vital work. He's right that | :44:11. | :44:13. | |
the country is on the brink of famine, and probably beyond that | :44:14. | :44:21. | |
now. There is not enough food or oil, or other essentials getting | :44:22. | :44:27. | |
through to the people. Chris White. Thank you, Madame Deputy Speaker. | :44:28. | :44:31. | |
With the limiting of US arms even by one sale, as well as this new | :44:32. | :44:37. | |
evidence on cluster munitions coming to light this week, will the | :44:38. | :44:42. | |
Secretary of State outline the circumstances under which the | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
government would suspend a UK arms exports to Saudi Arabia, and called | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
for an independent UN led investigation into potential | :44:53. | :44:53. | |
breaches of international humanitarian law. If we had evidence | :44:54. | :45:01. | |
that international humanitarian law had been breached then of course | :45:02. | :45:04. | |
that would be a serious factor in considering whether or not to | :45:05. | :45:11. | |
agreeing to future licences or suspending existing licences. It | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
would also be the case that if we felt that if the Saudi authorities | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
were not properly able to investigate allegations of this kind | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
then, of course, we would support the call that there has already been | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
for an independent inquiry. But the events of the last few weeks and | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
months have shown that, thanks to our pressure, that the Saudis have | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
been able to investigate these allegations and have, as a result, | :45:37. | :45:39. | |
made the announcement they have made. Diana Johnson. Thank you, | :45:40. | :45:46. | |
Madame Deputy Speaker. With our strong diplomatic relationship with | :45:47. | :45:49. | |
Saudi Arabia and with them saying they will no longer use cluster | :45:50. | :45:53. | |
bombs, I wonder whether it could be stressed very strongly to the | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
Saudis, but as a gesture of good faith, this dumb at the destruction | :45:58. | :46:00. | |
and independently verified destruction of the cluster bombs | :46:01. | :46:06. | |
they have would go a long way in the international community to restoring | :46:07. | :46:08. | |
some faith in what the Saudi Arabians say. | :46:09. | :46:14. | |
I will make sure that suggestion is conveyed to the Saudi authorities. | :46:15. | :46:19. | |
As I have said, we have already offered to help them destroy the | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
BL755 cluster munitions, which are the only ones that we supplied to | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
Saudi Arabia, and which we have been discussing this afternoon. Hywel | :46:29. | :46:37. | |
Williams. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Thank you for the statement | :46:38. | :46:40. | |
and the prior sight of it. He was careful to say that the Saudis have | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
said they will not use BL755 cluster munitions, British supplied once. Do | :46:46. | :46:55. | |
they have stocks supplied by others? I am grateful to the honourable | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
gentleman for giving me another opportunity to clarify that the | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
study segment does relate to BL755 cluster munitions, the only ones | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
that we sold them that have been the centre of these allegations. I'm not | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
able to comment on whether they hold stocks of other cluster munitions. | :47:14. | :47:17. | |
Perhaps he would allow me to write to him on that? Thank you, Madam | :47:18. | :47:22. | |
Deputy Speaker. If the UK had ended arms exports to Saudi Arabia as some | :47:23. | :47:26. | |
have argued, does my Right Honourable friend think that having | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
done so, and having weak possibly irretrievably damaged our | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
relationship with an old friend, the investigation that he is announcing | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
the results of today will dumb and would be more like you're less | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
likely, that the UK would have more less influence of the events on the | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
ground in Yemen? My honourable friend makes a very good point. And | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
we refused to sell particular arms or munitions to Saudi Arabia, our | :47:51. | :47:53. | |
place would undoubtedly have been taken by some less scrupulous arms | :47:54. | :48:02. | |
supplier, and who would not have pressed for the kind of | :48:03. | :48:08. | |
investigation that we have done in this particular situation. We'd had | :48:09. | :48:12. | |
the investigation now. We'd had confirmation from the Saudi | :48:13. | :48:15. | |
authorities, and we have now had the result that the coalition will no | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
longer use BL755. And finally, the prize for patients, goes to Doctor | :48:22. | :48:28. | |
Tanya Matthias. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I declare my | :48:29. | :48:31. | |
interest as an amnesty dumb at Amnesty International member. I | :48:32. | :48:34. | |
welcome the fact the government will help the destruction of the | :48:35. | :48:38. | |
stockpile. Can the Minister tell us how many BL755s are in the Saudi and | :48:39. | :48:41. | |
will the UK Government also help the clearing of the omelettes, I believe | :48:42. | :48:49. | |
one bomb produces 147 small bombs from the villages in Yemen? We don't | :48:50. | :48:54. | |
have records going back right through the 1980s of exactly how | :48:55. | :49:00. | |
many cluster munitions were sold to Saudi Arabia. We have offered to | :49:01. | :49:07. | |
help dispose of any remaining stocks the Saudis hold. I am not able to | :49:08. | :49:13. | |
offer UK help into a conflict zone to deal with any unexploded | :49:14. | :49:22. | |
ordinance. My best information is that this particular munition did | :49:23. | :49:32. | |
not explode and therefore the bomblets are still in the area but | :49:33. | :49:37. | |
if I'm right about that I will write to the honourable member. Point of | :49:38. | :49:43. | |
order. Point of order, today's deliberations on the statement show | :49:44. | :49:46. | |
why it is vital we have robust Parliamentary scrutiny of UK arms | :49:47. | :49:52. | |
exports. In that light, if you or Mr Speaker received any Nick | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
notification of any committee attempting to withdraw the committee | :49:58. | :50:00. | |
on arms exports control structure which exists to scrutinise UK arms | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
exports and has done so for many years? I thank the honourable | :50:06. | :50:10. | |
gentleman for his point of order but I think he knows as the House does, | :50:11. | :50:15. | |
that the point that he raises is not a matter that can be addressed by | :50:16. | :50:21. | |
me, or from the chair, but he wished to make a point, he has made it, and | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
I'm sure that those on whose ears he wished his point to fall have heard | :50:26. | :50:33. | |
what he had to say. Further to that point of order, and fluid. Thank | :50:34. | :50:39. | |
you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am a member of the Foreign Affairs Select | :50:40. | :50:40. | |
Committee -- and fluid. There was considerable pressure with | :50:41. | :50:55. | |
visits from Saudi Arabia ministers when we were deciding our report on | :50:56. | :51:03. | |
the Yemen and I think it's right the House should know, there are | :51:04. | :51:07. | |
pressures going on here. In the past the arms export committee was quite | :51:08. | :51:11. | |
strong, it revoked 50 licences in the last Parliament. It's regrouping | :51:12. | :51:20. | |
was delayed by six months in this Parliament, and I think that speaks | :51:21. | :51:26. | |
for itself. The Honourable Lady knows that is not a point of order. | :51:27. | :51:33. | |
She wished to raise a point of political interest in the chamber, | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
but it's not a point of order. I can say nothing further to it. Point of | :51:38. | :51:46. | |
order. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I hope this is a point of | :51:47. | :51:51. | |
order and it is a different matter entirely. Today I tried to submit an | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
urgent question on the recall of the Northern Ireland Assembly, which was | :51:57. | :51:59. | |
debating a motion of no confidence on the First Minister. But could the | :52:00. | :52:06. | |
Speaker explained, maybe at a later time, why the question wasn't | :52:07. | :52:10. | |
selected, as the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland does have a | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
responsibility for political stability in Northern Ireland, | :52:15. | :52:17. | |
especially at such times of crisis and failure of the executive. I | :52:18. | :52:23. | |
appreciate the point which the honourable gentleman is making and | :52:24. | :52:26. | |
there is a matter about which he and other members may well be concerned. | :52:27. | :52:32. | |
But I absolutely cannot come absolutely cannot address that point | :52:33. | :52:36. | |
from the chair here in the chamber, nor will Mr Speaker give, now or at | :52:37. | :52:40. | |
any time, an explanation as to why he has or has not granted an urgent | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
question. That is not a matter that should be brought up in the chamber | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
and not a matter that can be disclosed from the chair. Further to | :52:51. | :52:57. | |
the further points of order that were not... Further to the previous | :52:58. | :53:04. | |
almost points of order... I will give the honourable gentleman the | :53:05. | :53:07. | |
benefit of the doubt that this might be a point of order. Doctor Julian | :53:08. | :53:12. | |
Lewis. I think this one might actually be a point of order | :53:13. | :53:16. | |
because, although the Defence Select Committee has not withdrawn from the | :53:17. | :53:20. | |
committees on arms export controls, I am aware of the serious concern | :53:21. | :53:27. | |
caused by a leakage of a draft report that those committees had | :53:28. | :53:33. | |
drawn up. Would she agree with me that it is of absolute importance | :53:34. | :53:38. | |
that if select committees, or quarter apartheid composite | :53:39. | :53:41. | |
committees like this are to function, they should be no question | :53:42. | :53:46. | |
of draft reports being late for political purposes as happened in | :53:47. | :53:52. | |
that case? That may or may not be a point of order as far as order in | :53:53. | :53:58. | |
the chamber is concerned. But it is a point about which Mr Speaker will | :53:59. | :54:04. | |
be concerned and we should all be extremely concerned because the | :54:05. | :54:07. | |
leaking of reports underlines the work of the committee is working | :54:08. | :54:14. | |
hard on those reports. It is not honourable behaviour becoming of | :54:15. | :54:20. | |
honourable members of this House to leaked reports. Point of order. | :54:21. | :54:29. | |
Following on that last point of order, would the Madame Deputy | :54:30. | :54:35. | |
Speaker clarify whether a committee, any committee of this House, should | :54:36. | :54:42. | |
be disbanded if there is a leak? Now that is not a point of order. It is | :54:43. | :54:51. | |
not for me, it is not for the chair to opine on whether a committee | :54:52. | :54:54. | |
should or should not in any particular circumstance be | :54:55. | :55:00. | |
disbanded. It is a matter which I'm sure honourable members will address | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
in another forum in another way and the honourable gentleman has made | :55:05. | :55:11. | |
his point. Point of order, Sir. I don't want to prolong this | :55:12. | :55:14. | |
discussion but I wonder given the points of order we have had in the | :55:15. | :55:17. | |
chamber with regards to the committee on arms exports control, | :55:18. | :55:20. | |
if there is anybody yourself or Mr Speaker cousin Dominic's good office | :55:21. | :55:28. | |
could do -- Mr Speaker's good office could do for the benefit of our | :55:29. | :55:31. | |
constituents because they do want a robust arms and export control in | :55:32. | :55:35. | |
this House. The honourable gentleman makes a very pale stomach fair point | :55:36. | :55:42. | |
but it is out with the competence of Mr Speaker, not many things are out | :55:43. | :55:45. | |
the competence of Mr Speaker but it is out with the absence of Mr | :55:46. | :55:52. | |
Speaker to require any action by the Chairman of Committees. However, | :55:53. | :55:54. | |
once again, the honourable gentleman has made his point and I am quite | :55:55. | :55:59. | |
sure that the chairman of the relevant committees will have heard | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
the concerns in the House and will act accordingly. | :56:05. | :56:13. | |
If there are no more further points of order, or non-points of order, we | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
now come to the general debate on exiting the EU and science and | :56:19. | :56:22. | |
research. And I called Joe Johnson to | :56:23. | :56:24. | |
I'm pleased to Er introduce today's debate about science and research. | :56:25. | :56:30. | |
This is one of a number of debates about our exit from the EU. It's | :56:31. | :56:33. | |
important we continue to give members of this House the | :56:34. | :56:37. | |
opportunities to discuss and debate Brexit and the impact on our | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
country. I'd like to say up front that the UK's science base is not | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
only one of this country's most impressive national achievements, | :56:47. | :56:50. | |
but it is also one of the strongest in the world. Within the G 7, we | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
have the most productive science base in terms of papers and | :56:55. | :57:01. | |
citations per unit of GDP. With our world class universities, four of | :57:02. | :57:05. | |
which in the wore's top ten, and 18 in the world's top 100, we have a | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
long established system which supports and attracts the brightest | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
minds throughout their career and enables them to generate high | :57:15. | :57:17. | |
quality research. With less than 1% of the global population and just | :57:18. | :57:23. | |
over 3% of global R spend the UK produces almost a fifth of the most | :57:24. | :57:29. | |
highly cited research articles. The benefits for our economy are very | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
real. The World Economic Forum ranks the UK among the top four nations in | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
the worlingd for university industry collaboration in R and ranking | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
third in the global innovation index in 2016. If honourable members want | :57:43. | :57:48. | |
a specific example, they might look at the space sector, a high growth, | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
high productivity industry that show cases UK research strengths in a | :57:54. | :57:59. | |
global market. Earlier this month, at the European Space Agency council | :58:00. | :58:03. | |
of ministers, the Government showed its confidence by investing an extra | :58:04. | :58:09. | |
1. 4 billion in ISA so we support the world class science and | :58:10. | :58:12. | |
innovation under-Pinocheting this high growth sector of the economy. | :58:13. | :58:17. | |
Our investment of 170 million euros in the exploration programme will | :58:18. | :58:23. | |
bring tangible benefits ensuring that the exo-Mars Rover, being built | :58:24. | :58:26. | |
in Stevenage is completed and launched. Thanks to our investments, | :58:27. | :58:31. | |
we now lead the research and innovation programmes in ISA for | :58:32. | :58:35. | |
telecoms, earth observation and navigation, positioning of the UK to | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
seize opportunities in the growing markets. I also signed a new MOU | :58:40. | :58:46. | |
with ISA to ensure their European centre for space applications and | :58:47. | :58:51. | |
telecommunications, which is a fast growing space cluster in | :58:52. | :58:56. | |
Oxfordshire, is the focus for the commercial exploitation of space | :58:57. | :58:59. | |
datament these and early investments are delivering results. The space | :59:00. | :59:03. | |
sector in this country is growing strongly, now worth 13. ?13.7 | :59:04. | :59:09. | |
billion a year to the UK economy, employing just under 40,000 people | :59:10. | :59:12. | |
and we are ambitious for it. We want to increase our share in the global | :59:13. | :59:20. | |
sector to 10% by 2030, creating 100,000 new jobs. Space is one of a | :59:21. | :59:25. | |
number of success stories that are, in part, due to government | :59:26. | :59:28. | |
investments in collaborative structures with international | :59:29. | :59:30. | |
partners in Europe and around the world. A story we plan to continue | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
writing long after we've left the European Union. | :59:36. | :59:40. | |
The minister just mentions collaboration with EU partners and | :59:41. | :59:44. | |
around the world. I represent a university that has given us Dolly | :59:45. | :59:52. | |
the sheep and Higgs Bosun. The only reason those things are associated | :59:53. | :59:54. | |
with the University of Edinburgh is because they were able to lead these | :59:55. | :59:59. | |
clob aTiff projects. We're hearing already That Is The Spirit because | :00:00. | :00:05. | |
of -- that because of Brexit that may not continue to happen. Will the | :00:06. | :00:12. | |
minister do all he can to ensure universities are protected in terms | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
of exiting the European Union? That's an important point. The | :00:17. | :00:21. | |
Government has given assurances to UK institutions and institutions | :00:22. | :00:25. | |
across the European Union that we in the UK remain full members of the | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
European Union and we are eligible to lead European bids and compete | :00:31. | :00:34. | |
successfully for competitively bid for funding streams. We continue to | :00:35. | :00:37. | |
do so. We want institutions such as the one he represents in Edinburgh | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
to continue to be successful in the way it has been in the past. This | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
Government recognises that our world leading science and research must be | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
at the very heart of this Government's industrial strategy. We | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
are matching rhetoric with resources. At the Autumn Statement, | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
the Chancellor announced an additional ?2 billion per year for | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
R by 2021. This is the single biggest uplift in research and | :01:07. | :01:08. | |
innovation spending in decades and it is an opportunity for us to make | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
Britain in the Prime Minister's words "the global go-to place for | :01:14. | :01:19. | |
scientists, innovators and tech investors". I thank my honourable | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
friend, the Science Minister, for giving way. He's making an important | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
point. Does he agree that investment and commitment also builds | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
confidence with business and it's to be noted that AstraZeneca opened a | :01:33. | :01:38. | |
?120 million site which demonstrates their commitment to the UK economy | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
because of the support he rightly highlights? My honourable friend is | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
exactly right. This does certainly boost not only our research | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
community's confidence but that of the business community, which can | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
see we are putting innovation at the very heart of our industrial | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
strategy. We are, because for every pound of public investment in | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
research, we get back over ?7 of net economic benefit, both at local and | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
national level. When we invest in research, we invest in our wider | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
prosperity. I thank the minister for giving way. Whilst the announcement | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
by the Chancellor that Government will continue to fund EU projects | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
such as Horizon 2020, was very welcome, but making sure that our | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
universities continue to collaborate is still very important. What | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
further measures will he make to ensure this stays in place? Our | :02:30. | :02:37. | |
universities are successful in winning European funding bids. In | :02:38. | :02:43. | |
fact, we have the top four slots of all European institutions in London | :02:44. | :02:50. | |
and Oxford, Cambridge and Imperial ucl in terms of the share of | :02:51. | :02:57. | |
participation. That underscores the strengths of our university system | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
and we want them to continue to be able to bid successfully for as long | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
as we're members of the European Union. We want this level of | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
economic benefit to continue long after we leave the EU, which is why | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
we're setting up the industrial strategy challenge fund. It will | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
back priority technologies like robotics and Bayeux technology, | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
where -- bio technology, where just as in the space sector, the UK has | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
the potential to return strengths into a commercial lead. Though our | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
research and innovation system is world leading, we are working to | :03:33. | :03:35. | |
ensure it stays there to be even more effective. We are implementing | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
the recommendation that's we should establish a single strategic | :03:41. | :03:43. | |
research and innovation funding body, UK research and innovation, | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
which will be a strong and unified voice, championing UK research and | :03:49. | :03:51. | |
innovation nationally and internationally. For the UK's | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
research base, the EU is important, of course, but it is not the only | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
game in town. The UK has been a place of learning for many of the | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
EU's member states even existed. Some of our universities have been | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
centres of excellence for nearly a millennium. The UK will continue to | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
play a leading role in major, non--EU research collaborations that | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
take place here from CERN in Switzerland. We are a major partner | :04:22. | :04:29. | |
the world's largest radio telescope. And in the scientific collaboration, | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
it was UK researchers working with their counterparts who made the | :04:34. | :04:36. | |
dramatic gravitational waves discovery possible. All that said, | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
it will not be lost on many honourable members of this House | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
that there are many valuable interactions between UK and EU | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
scientific institutions. We work closely with our European neighbours | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
on issues which affect our planet as well as everyone on it. I'm grateful | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
to the minister for giving way. The Chancellor has promised to guarantee | :05:01. | :05:09. | |
projects which win funds from Horizon 2020 before we leave the EU. | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
What he's done is set two further tests for giving guarantees, that | :05:15. | :05:16. | |
projects are good value for money and that they're in line with | :05:17. | :05:23. | |
domestic strategic priorities. It's not clear how at the time that | :05:24. | :05:30. | |
researchers apply for their Horizon 2020 they know from Government | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
departments whether it is good value for money and in line with the | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
Government's strategic priorities. So could the minister please explain | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
not just for the benefit of the House, but for the benefit of the | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
academics, what they're supposed to do to meet the Chancellor's | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
criteria? The Chancellor's August 13 statement was an extremely important | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
one, which has to a very great degree helped put aside the | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
uncertainty that the science and research community had over its | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
ability to participate in competitively-won funding streams. | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
The treasure has made clear it would be good for guaranteeing payments | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
that fall due to UK institutions after the moment of Brexit and that | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
has significantly helped reassure our scientists and researchers that | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
they can confidently bid for funding streams in the months ahead. It is | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
not in our interest to turn away from our long standing partnerships. | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
This message was reinforced by the Prime Minister who has stated that | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
the Government is committed to a positive outcome for UK science, as | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
we exit the European Union. Our priority in this respect can be | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
broken down into two core issues - continuity in international research | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
collaboration and maintenance of the factors that make the UK location of | :06:50. | :06:52. | |
choice for some of the best minds on the planet. With regard to a smooth | :06:53. | :06:58. | |
departure from the EU, the two core inputs into these issues are funding | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
and people. On funding, as I've just said, the Chancellor announced in | :07:05. | :07:11. | |
August that the Treasury will guarantee all successful | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
competitively bid for EU research funding applied for before the UK | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
leaves the EU. This means UK participants and international | :07:21. | :07:22. | |
partners can be confident that they will have the funding necessary | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
throughout the life of their horizon 2020 fundling project. The UK as | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
honourable members will know has benefitted strongly from Horizon | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
2020 with over 5,2000 participations and 2. 6 billion euros of funding | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
support since 2014. We are top of the table with regard to | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
participations and second only to Germany in terms of funding won. In | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
addition to underwriting the competitively bid for research | :07:53. | :07:55. | |
funding, the Chancellor has confirmed that funding will be | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
guaranteed for structural and investment fund project, signed | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
before the UK departs the EU. We have worked closely with the | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
European Commission to provide swift reassurances. The commissioner | :08:09. | :08:10. | |
stated immediately after the referendum that as long as the UK is | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
a member of the European Union, EU law continues to apply and we retain | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
all our rights and obligations as a member state. Helping us to | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
reinforce the message that we still have the same terms of access to | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
European research funding, including Horizon to 20, for as long as we are | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
a member of the EU. Turning to people, we recognise the very | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
significant contribution to our research base made by non-UK EU | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
nationals. The Prime Minister earlier today again made clear that | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
during negotiations she wants to protect the status of EU nationals | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
already living here as a global hub for research excellence, we will | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
always welcome the best and the brightest. Others are concerned | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
about EU national students and the rules regarding their student loans | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
from the Student Loans Company. I would like to reassure the House | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
that they are unchanged and remain in force. I will give way. Thank you | :09:07. | :09:14. | |
very much. The minister is making a very eloquent description of a | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
situation that we currently have. But I'm thinking post-Brexit. The | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
key question I think is this: Does the Government intend to seek | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
associate country status for Horizon 2020? That would give us some | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
continuity? These are important questions, which the honourable | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
member, my honourable friend will understand are clearly going to form | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
an important part of the overall discussions around our future | :09:42. | :09:47. | |
relations with the EU. We recognise the benefits of collaboration with | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
European parters in and we will seek obviously to ensure that we can | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
continue to derive strong collaboration arrangements all | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
around the world. I thank my honourable friend for giving way. He | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
has been a very strong advocate for our university sector since he took | :10:04. | :10:09. | |
up the post. One of the key concerns my own university has, and others | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
across the country, he probably knows what I'm about to say in | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
relation to international student numbers, given the opportunities | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
available to us in a post Brexit world, we have to be better | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
communicating what immigration looks like in our country. For me and | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
pretty much most universities across the country, we need to split up our | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
international student numbers from overall immigration figures. It's | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
got the support of the public by 70%. I hope he'll agree upon that | :10:33. | :10:39. | |
point. Whenever I get the chance, I reiterate that we welcome | :10:40. | :10:41. | |
international students and value the contribution that they make to our | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
universities and to our economy. I'm pleased to be able to re-it rate | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
there's no cap on the number of international students to come and | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
study here and no plan to introduce one. It's important that we make | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
clear that EU students continue to be able to access our loan book and | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
continue to be able to come here to study on home fee status, just as | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
domestic UK students. We've been very quick as a Government to make | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
that clear to students applying in 2016/17 and in 2017/18. We will | :11:15. | :11:21. | |
decide the policy for the 2018/19 year in plenty of time for the start | :11:22. | :11:23. | |
of that application process. I am grateful to the Minister, can I | :11:24. | :11:35. | |
come back to the point raised by the chair of the Select Committee about | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
non-EU nationals who made a reluctant, more reluctant than they | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
were, to come to this country for as long as our international | :11:44. | :11:45. | |
relationships with the rest of the EU are still unclear? As I said, we | :11:46. | :11:53. | |
want to encourage international students to come to the UK. They | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
bring enormous benefits to our universities and to our economy and | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
we have no plans to introduce a capital sum we have a great higher | :12:02. | :12:04. | |
education system in the country and the fact we attract the second | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
largest group of international students of any country in the world | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
is a testament to the quality of our institutions, that will continue | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
after Brexit. I will give way one last time. I am grateful for giving | :12:17. | :12:23. | |
way. Will he tell us how much it costs to fund the grants, sorry, the | :12:24. | :12:30. | |
loans which EU students are entitled to, unlike non-EU students who pay | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
the full fee and help subsidise the rest of us, given that only 16% are | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
currently repaying their loans at present? Should that cost not be | :12:40. | :12:46. | |
taken into account when we talk about the costs and benefits of | :12:47. | :12:49. | |
university education in this country? | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
I thank my Right Honourable friend for his intervention. Of course we | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
weigh up the cost of enabling EU students to have access to our alone | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
book, which is only right they have access to as long as we are a member | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
of the European Union. Additional costs thereafter, after Brexit, will | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
be taken into account as we put in place arrangements for EU students | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
for the longer term. But for the time being while we are still | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
members of the European Union they have a right to come here and access | :13:22. | :13:24. | |
higher education in this country as home fees students do and have | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
access to our student loan book. I will let my honourable friend come | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
in. I'm pleased to hear what the minister has to say about students | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
in the UK. Has he had any indication from his interlocutors in the rest | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
of Europe about the status of the increasing number of British school | :13:45. | :13:47. | |
leavers who wish to study in European countries, and the | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
relatively favourable fees they are expected to pay? Well, we wish more | :13:52. | :13:59. | |
UK students took the opportunities that are available to them to study | :14:00. | :14:06. | |
overseas. International mobility is a great life enhancer, it improves | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
employability, and it's something which we want to encourage and we | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
are encouraging through programmes promoted by the British Council, | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
such as generation UK to India generation UK to China, which are | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
valuable problems we want to -- programmes we want to encourage in | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
the future. In my stakeholder working group on EU exit for | :14:30. | :14:32. | |
universities, research and innovation, I was impressed with the | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
positive outward looking approach of key decision makers within the UK | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
research and innovation community. As we prepare for the negotiations | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
ahead, no stone can be left unturned in learning about the opportunities | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
ahead for the UK. If we are to win in the global marketplace and we | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
must win the global battle for talent. Britain has always been one | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
of the most welcoming places in the world for brilliant minds and it | :14:59. | :15:00. | |
will remain so. Madam Deputy Speaker, throughout our exit of the | :15:01. | :15:03. | |
European Union we will continue to build on our ambitious global | :15:04. | :15:06. | |
partnerships, including with our friends in the EU. We will put the | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
UK at the forefront of international research on emerging global | :15:12. | :15:14. | |
challenges and continue to make sure UK researchers have access to and | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
leadership of world-class research facilities. We will continue to do | :15:20. | :15:22. | |
everything we can to make sure that our Price -- proud history as prime | :15:23. | :15:30. | |
place. The question is, this House has considered exiting the EU and | :15:31. | :15:38. | |
science and research. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The American | :15:39. | :15:44. | |
physicist called science the engine of prosperity and that is certainly | :15:45. | :15:51. | |
true for us in the United Kingdom. In 2015 then have -- the campaign | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
for science and engineering found that for every ?1 spent by the | :15:58. | :16:00. | |
government on research and develop and we got back 30p each and every | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
year in perpetuity on that investment. I am a strong believer | :16:06. | :16:11. | |
in science for science's sake. I think it is part of our innate | :16:12. | :16:18. | |
humanity to seek to push forward the bounds of knowledge. But we must | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
also recognise that as far as the UK economy is concerned, science | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
investment is the gift that keeps on giving. Are a world-renowned science | :16:27. | :16:33. | |
sector plays a huge role in economic growth and the creation of jobs. 20% | :16:34. | :16:40. | |
of the UK workforce are employed in science roles and these are high | :16:41. | :16:46. | |
skilled, well-paid jobs where employees earn 40% more than the | :16:47. | :16:52. | |
average wage. The UK punches above its weight on science, as the | :16:53. | :16:59. | |
Minister said, we represent just 0.9% of the global population but we | :17:00. | :17:07. | |
produce a staggering 16% of the world's most significant research | :17:08. | :17:10. | |
citations. We are the home of Stephen Hawking, the discoverer of | :17:11. | :17:17. | |
the Higgs boson, Peter Higgs, who I'm proud to say may have been at | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
Edinburgh University but was born in else sick in Newcastle. But despite | :17:22. | :17:29. | |
this proud history we are lagging behind on investment. Since 2012 UK | :17:30. | :17:37. | |
public sector spending on science is falling to below 0.5% of our GDP. | :17:38. | :17:46. | |
The lowest level of any G8 country. The UK has long been known for its | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
research and development but we are at risk of losing that reputation | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
and the rewards it reeks for our economy and jobs if the government | :17:57. | :18:02. | |
refuses to support science through Brexit. The UK world leading | :18:03. | :18:11. | |
position in technology, research and development, is thanks in part to | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
our integration with and the contribution of our soon-to-be | :18:17. | :18:18. | |
ex-partners in the European Union. The Minister mentioned 2020. One in | :18:19. | :18:29. | |
every ?6 spent on science by the European Union is spent here in the | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
United Kingdom. I know in my own constituency scientists not only | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
benefit from EU funding, but from the highly skilled researchers and | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
scientists it brings with us. So Newcastle University, Madam Deputy | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
Speaker, employs nearly 600 staff from different European countries. | :18:50. | :18:56. | |
European Union funding allows them to retain and attract talented | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
researchers through prestigious European research council grants, | :19:01. | :19:10. | |
such as the individual fellows, 50 of which are hosted by Newcastle | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
University, equating to 11 million in research funding terms. Some of | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
Newcastle's leading research centres would not be possible without | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
European Union staff, for example the John Walton muscular dystrophy | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
research team which pioneers treatment for children with muscular | :19:31. | :19:39. | |
dystrophy. More than 30% of staff are European and three of its four | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
lead academics from the European Union. Many re-honourable and Right | :19:45. | :19:47. | |
Honourable member is will have similar examples in their own | :19:48. | :19:54. | |
constituencies. -- honourable. Leaving the EU presents our science | :19:55. | :19:57. | |
and research sectors with numerous challenges around process, timing, | :19:58. | :20:04. | |
funds, skills, creativity and resources. Challenges the government | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
has a duty to address. But as highlighted in the Science and | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
Technology Committee's most recent report, the Government's | :20:15. | :20:16. | |
communication, and the Minister's speech notwithstanding, over its | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
Brexit and science strategy has been woefully insufficient. Why, Madam | :20:22. | :20:28. | |
Deputy Speaker, is science not a part of the Government's Brexit | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
strategy? It is at the heart of our economy. The Government says it will | :20:35. | :20:40. | |
match funding until the horizon 2020 programme expires but this suggests | :20:41. | :20:43. | |
it is planning to withdraw from the scheme thereafter, one which the | :20:44. | :20:52. | |
Royal Society has estimated accounts for 22.2% of global research | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
programmes, which is higher, Madam Deputy Speaker, than either China or | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
the US's contribution to global research. Why would we seek to | :21:02. | :21:09. | |
withdraw from such a scheme? We receive significantly more from it | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
and we put in, 8.8 billion euros between 2007 and 2013, as against | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
5.4 billion that we paid in. And we do not have to lose access to the | :21:19. | :21:27. | |
framework programmes. There are 13 non-member states currently enjoying | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
associated country status which gives them full access to Horizon | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
2020 funding and the same status as member states. The benefits of | :21:37. | :21:42. | |
involvement with European Union programmes are not confined to | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
funding. Contrary to the picture painted by many in the Leave | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
campaign, EU science and technology institutions actually reduce | :21:55. | :21:56. | |
bureaucracy and streamline administration processes. For | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
example, preventing work being done in different labs, from Dummett | :22:01. | :22:07. | |
preventing the same work being done in different labs, spreading good | :22:08. | :22:10. | |
practice among the European scientific community and harmonising | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
clinical trial regulations. The latter, Madam Deputy Speaker, is | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
absolutely critical for the diffusion and adoption of innovative | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
new treatments, upon which many lives depend. In addition, | :22:24. | :22:31. | |
cross-border and cross discipline collaboration has benefits for | :22:32. | :22:33. | |
innovation and creativity which cannot be expressed in pounds, | :22:34. | :22:41. | |
shillings and pence, or in euros. However, if the Government pursues | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
its commitment to ending existing European Union Freedom of movement | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
arrangements these benefits will be jeopardise. In 2014 Switzerland held | :22:51. | :22:57. | |
a referendum blocking free movement for Croatian nationals, which | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
directly led to the suspension from Horizon 2020. So, Madam Deputy | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
Speaker, the Conservatives cannot call themselves the party of | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
business when actively working to undermine our science and technology | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
sectors. The Prime Minister's refusal to reassure European Union | :23:22. | :23:28. | |
nationals living here that they will continue to be able to do so... | :23:29. | :23:36. | |
Astounding, and the Home Secretary's reported plans to halve student fees | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
are members, numbers, highlight their failure to recognise the | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
potency of British scientific research in the wider British | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
economy. We are entering a fourth Industrial Revolution. Technology | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
advancement is central to the way in which we work. But the Government | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
seeks to curtail our access to the brightest and best in science, as | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
well as curtailing the opportunity for our own citizens to work and | :24:07. | :24:15. | |
study abroad. Madam Deputy Speaker, the Conservative current policy is | :24:16. | :24:17. | |
more about short-term political point scoring than there are now | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
forgotten long-term economic plan. We don't hear so much about that now | :24:24. | :24:29. | |
today, do we? Indeed, as the Vice Chancellor of one of our leading | :24:30. | :24:31. | |
universities recently said, on student visas politics is trumping | :24:32. | :24:41. | |
economics. Of course the Tories have form here. Under the last Tory | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
government science spending was squeezed. Indeed, the campaign Save | :24:46. | :24:53. | |
British Science was launched in 1986 in response to the Ben Thatcher | :24:54. | :24:56. | |
Government's woeful record on science and research. -- then | :24:57. | :25:03. | |
Thatcher government. Labour doubled the science budget from 1.3 billion | :25:04. | :25:12. | |
up to 3.4 billion, reaching almost 4 billion by 2,010. Madam Deputy | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
Speaker, save British science had to be renamed the campaign for British | :25:19. | :25:21. | |
science and engineering because British science had been saved by | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
Labour. So, the boost to the research and development budget in | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
the Autumn Statement is widely welcomed. But we must set it against | :25:30. | :25:37. | |
a backdrop of six years of subsistence spending. Not only are | :25:38. | :25:40. | |
we now the lowest funder of science out of any G8 country, but our | :25:41. | :25:47. | |
spending as a proportion of GDP has fallen to its lowest point in 20 | :25:48. | :26:00. | |
years. This increase in forecasting expenditure assumes all other | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
spending commitments for science and research will remain in place, safe | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
from sweeping Conservative cuts, and given the party's previous actions, | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
I believe we should remember the motto of the world's oldest | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
scientific Institute, the Royals at a week, which is" take nobody's word | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
for it." LAUGHTER | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, I began by saying how important science and | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
research is to our economy and that's why today's debate is so | :26:33. | :26:38. | |
critical. Science provides the inventions and the infrastructure | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
which propels our industry forward. It uncovers the challenges that we | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
face today and provides our industries with a vision for the | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
future. We in the Labour Party recognise that in order to have an | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
industrial strategy that works for each and every member of our | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
society, a thriving science community is absolutely key. I ask | :27:01. | :27:09. | |
the Secretary of State last week if he would give the UK economy the | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
Christmas present it deserves an industrial strategy. Sadly, it that | :27:15. | :27:18. | |
Santa's elves are nowhere ready on this one. As my Right Honourable | :27:19. | :27:24. | |
friend, the Shadow Secretary of State for business, has said, we | :27:25. | :27:30. | |
believe that industrial strategy should be mission orientated. One of | :27:31. | :27:37. | |
the roles of public spending, when it is mission orientated, is to lay | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
down the foundation of new opportunities which then galvanise | :27:42. | :27:45. | |
businesses, the private sector, to invest. The world's leading | :27:46. | :27:54. | |
economist on mission orientated innovation has shown how business | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
investment should not be assumed but created by ambitious public | :28:01. | :28:01. | |
investment policies. No matter how excited businesses | :28:02. | :28:12. | |
get, they will only invest when there is a potential market. | :28:13. | :28:15. | |
Government can help create new markets and enlarge existing ones | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
through procurement and critically, through trade agreements. The | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
European Union is possibly the most successful trade agreement in | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
history. It has benefitted British companies for decades. 44% of UK | :28:31. | :28:39. | |
goods and services went to the European Union in 2015. I'm most | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
grateful to the honourable lady for giving way. She said the European | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
Union was the most successful trade agreement in history. Now for a | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
generation or so, that was certainly true, does it not worry her, that | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
it's now the slowest growing economic block in the world and that | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
44% that she's just quoted continues to fall, it's fallen more than ten | :29:02. | :29:09. | |
points over the last few years? I thank the honourable gentleman for | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
that contribution. I'm glad he agrees with me that the European | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
Union was the most successful trade agreement in history. His points | :29:18. | :29:25. | |
regarding the economic growth of the European Union do not - it's still | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
one of the largest and most successful economies in the world. | :29:30. | :29:35. | |
It's still a huge market for our goods and services. It has some of | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
the richest people in the world and whilst economic growth may have been | :29:40. | :29:46. | |
slow over the last, over the last few years, it still represents a | :29:47. | :29:49. | |
huge opportunity. I hope he would agree with me, one of the biggest | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
trading blocks in the world. We should obviously be looking outside | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
the European Union for trade opportunities, but we need to be | :29:59. | :30:01. | |
trading with the European Union. There are a lot of people who buy a | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
lot of our goods who need to continue to buy them. It's | :30:06. | :30:10. | |
absolutely clear that a hard Brexit would reduce the size of this market | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
for British companies. On top of that, broach it will reduce the | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
European Union financed research and development investments. So that | :30:22. | :30:27. | |
means that an existing problem that we have in this country, low private | :30:28. | :30:33. | |
sector investment in research, may get worse because the markets for | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
goods will be smaller. Ironically, for a Government which claims to be | :30:39. | :30:44. | |
focussed on reducing the public debt, though we know public debt has | :30:45. | :30:47. | |
gone up hugely under this Government, given this claim, it's | :30:48. | :30:54. | |
ironic that by reducing private investment, public investment in | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
research and investment will need to take more of the strain. We in the | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
Labour Party believe in public investment. But it shouldn't make up | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
for a lack of private sector investment. We have committed to | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
raising total investment in research and development and science to 3%. | :31:12. | :31:15. | |
But we expect the private sector to do its bit. I urge the minister to | :31:16. | :31:23. | |
try and get this right for British science. If not, once again, the | :31:24. | :31:30. | |
next Labour Government will have to make up for the economic scientific | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
and social mess a Tory Government has left behind. Madam Deputy | :31:35. | :31:43. | |
Speaker, the history of these aisles, speaks of a people with a | :31:44. | :31:49. | |
verve for technological and scientific endeavour. We ask that | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
Government provides the conditions for continued investigation and | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
inquiry. We cannot have an economy that relies on cheap and insecure | :32:00. | :32:06. | |
labour. A high-tech, knowledge-intensive economy must be | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
Britain's future. Madam Deputy Speaker, this Government and the | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
people of Britain cannot afford to suffocate our sciences in the smoke | :32:16. | :32:21. | |
of Brexit. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
Thank you for calling me so early in this very important debate. Can I | :32:27. | :32:31. | |
also thank the Government for putting aside Government time to | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
discuss this very important issue and for agreeing to tag the recently | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
published science and technology committee report, leaving the EU | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
implications and opportunities for science and research. I am very | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
appreciative. Now before I turn to the report Madam Deputy Speaker, and | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
its obvious relevance to this debate, as this is the first time | :32:53. | :32:54. | |
I've had the opportunity to address the House since my election as chair | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
of the science and technology committee, can I place on record my | :33:00. | :33:04. | |
gratitude to the House for electing me to this important role. I hope | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
that I can live up to the example set by my predecessors. I would like | :33:10. | :33:13. | |
to take this opportunity to pay tribute to my immediate predecessor, | :33:14. | :33:19. | |
the honourable member for her stewardship of the committee over | :33:20. | :33:25. | |
the last 15 or so months. She moved very quickly back in June to launch | :33:26. | :33:33. | |
the report and I think its findings will inform today's debate. But I | :33:34. | :33:39. | |
also would like to pay tribute to the interim chair the honourable | :33:40. | :33:42. | |
member for Twickenham who stepped into the breach prior to my | :33:43. | :33:45. | |
election. I'm very grateful to her as well. I'd like to thank the | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
clerks and staff of the committee for all their support and guidance | :33:51. | :33:56. | |
in these first few months and finally, as finally as part of the | :33:57. | :33:59. | |
thank yous Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to thank the more than | :34:00. | :34:03. | |
270 individuals and organisations who took time to provide written | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
evidence to the committee's call for evidence in the preparation of this | :34:10. | :34:15. | |
report. Now I had hoped to talk a bit about Brexit itself, but because | :34:16. | :34:18. | |
time is short and I can see there is a great deal of interest in this | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
debate, I'm going to leave that for another time. Just to state that | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
Brexit was not about science. It was one of the casualties along with | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
many other sectors that got caught up in a much bigger argument. So to | :34:31. | :34:38. | |
our report. As we've heard, it identifies five key themes in | :34:39. | :34:40. | |
relation to the concerns of the science and research community. All | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
of which I expect will feature and have already done so, somewhere in | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
honourable members' contributions this evening. These are: Funding, | :34:50. | :34:56. | |
people, collaboration, leader and influence, regulation and finally | :34:57. | :34:59. | |
facilities. I'll talk properly about funding and people. In terms of | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
collaboration, leadership and influence, for UK researchers to | :35:04. | :35:07. | |
continue to be part of multinational projects and continue to influence | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
EU's research agenda has to be of paramount importance. Regulation, | :35:13. | :35:20. | |
ensuring that regulation that facilitate research collaboration | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
and EU market access are retained while others, which hinder | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
innovation are revised. With regards to facilities, ensuring ongoing | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
access to the multinational research facilities hosting in other | :35:34. | :35:35. | |
countries and the need to protect those based in the UK. Again, it's | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
something that we have to work very hard at maintaining. Now a report | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
also outlines some of the opportunities arising from Brexit | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
that should be maximised. Such as the opportunity to embed science and | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
technology at the very heart of the Government's new industrial | :35:54. | :35:57. | |
strategy. The seizing of the opportunity specifically to look at | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
GM regulation and now an improve upon the EU's overly cautious | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
approach in this area. And the Government has the opportunity of | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
revising its VAT rules in a way that would stimulate university and | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
business collaboration. However, above all, what the Government needs | :36:16. | :36:18. | |
to do is to set out and I think it is beginning to do that, is to set | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
out a truly ambitious vision for science in the context of Brexit, to | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
send a message around the world that Britain's position as a science | :36:28. | :36:30. | |
superpower is going to grow and grow. Merely being open for business | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
isn't enough if you don't have any customers. The Government must think | :36:36. | :36:40. | |
beyond the open for business model now. However, as I've said, as time | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
is short, I will concentrate if I may Madam Deputy Speaker on what I | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
believe to be the two main issues, people and funding. With regards to | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
people, my committee agreed to highlight people as a particularly | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
significant theme. We called on the Government to make an immediate | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
commitment to exempt EU scientists and researchers already working in | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
the UK from wider potential immigration controls. Telling EU | :37:10. | :37:12. | |
scientists and researchers already working in the UK that they are | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
allowed to stay is one way the Government could reduce the | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
uncertainty right now. I've heard many warm words from both the | :37:22. | :37:24. | |
ministers on the frontbench and from the Prime Minister to take that | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
extra step to provide reassurance for those 40,000 people this would | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
apply to, I do not think is a particularly big ask. The risk is, | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
along with the brain drain, that the UK will become a less attractive | :37:39. | :37:43. | |
place for EU scientists to live, work and study. Now with regards to | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
funding, when our report was published, I said that the Autumn | :37:49. | :37:51. | |
Statement would be a chance for the Government to demonstrate its | :37:52. | :37:53. | |
commitment to science and research in the context of Brexit. So you can | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
imagine how delighted I was when the Chancellor responded to this by | :38:00. | :38:02. | |
increasing the Government investment in research and development to the | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
tune of ?2 billion per year by 2020. This is a huge step in the right | :38:07. | :38:12. | |
direction and is a step towards meeting that 3% of GDP commitment. I | :38:13. | :38:18. | |
think we all want to sign up to. Our report noted that the Government had | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
provided some very welcome and helpful short-term reassurances for | :38:25. | :38:27. | |
the science community following the referendum. Including underwriting | :38:28. | :38:32. | |
EU funding for research, maintaining access to student loans. It's clear | :38:33. | :38:35. | |
that the Government has done the right thing here in the short-term. | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
However, my committee is worried that there isn't a comprehensive | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
communications strategy for these messages of are assurance. The | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
minister for universities, science, research and innovation, has been | :38:49. | :38:51. | |
saying the right things. I'm worried that not everyone will have heard | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
him. That was brought home this week when I met with the new or the | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
interim chief executive of BBSRC, who said she'd attended a meeting | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
where someone had not heard about those reassurances. There is more | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
work to be done. The message is good. But does the Government know | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
yet whether that message is being received? Clearly Government can't | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
do all the communication itself. But it can have a strategy for providing | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
reassurances, a clear idea of who its message needs to reach and an | :39:21. | :39:26. | |
idea of who is best placed to reach those people. The recommendation | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
from my committee is simple: The Government has made helpful first | :39:31. | :39:33. | |
steps, but it needs to have a clear strategy for getting that message | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
out to everyone who needs to hear it. Another key area of concern is | :39:37. | :39:44. | |
that, as we've heard, that science and research is not at the heart of | :39:45. | :39:51. | |
- not at the heart of its thinking. I think again, that was highlighted | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
to the committee during the inquiry by the fact that we have yet to see | :39:57. | :40:04. | |
a chief scientific advisor appointed. I hope that is something | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
the minister will be able to address in his closing remarks. The | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
Government will be responding to our report in due course. But I hope | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
that the themes in the report will give honourable members an overview | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
of what the big issues for science and research are. Science and | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
research is the jewel in the UK's crown. It needs to be front and | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
centre of the Government's thinking. If we get this right, we can go from | :40:30. | :40:35. | |
strength to strength and support major life science industries here | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
in the UK. But if the needs of science are forgotten, then our | :40:40. | :40:42. | |
position as a science leader will diminish. Science is not a zero-sum | :40:43. | :40:49. | |
game. That is, we can create a Brexit which is both a win for the | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
UK science and a win for EU science. But that comes with a warning, | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
getting it wrong doesn't just damage the UK, it holds the whole cause of | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
science back too. Our understanding of the world, our ability to | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
exercise appropriate stewardship of it and our capacity for making it a | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
better place to live it in. -- live in. So to finish, Madam Deputy | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
Speaker, I apologise in advance for this, it is the season of goodwill | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
and Christmas is coming, the Chancellor has given us some gold. | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
We now need some Frankness, some sense... And a sustainable, sensible | :41:28. | :41:39. | |
im-mehr-gration policy. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I | :41:40. | :41:53. | |
won't attempt to follow that, my goose would be roasted. I will | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
declare first of all, Madam Deputy Speaker, and interest as both a | :41:58. | :42:04. | |
scientist and also as an EU national, I hold an Irish passport, | :42:05. | :42:10. | |
and as such I do feel strongly about what is happening during this | :42:11. | :42:18. | |
debate. Madam Deputy Speaker, whilst Brexit makes no sense for many of | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
us, for the scientific community Brexit goes against all normal rules | :42:23. | :42:26. | |
and threatens the very creativity which is central to the work. | :42:27. | :42:34. | |
Scientists do not see a person's nationality, class or ethnicity. | :42:35. | :42:40. | |
They see only a mind and a personality. If that mind is | :42:41. | :42:43. | |
brilliant, if that person has a contribution to make and a part to | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
play them they are part of that community. We have already heard | :42:48. | :42:55. | |
science and the impact it has on our economy described, we have heard the | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
importance of continued or enhanced funding for science, and we know how | :43:01. | :43:04. | |
important international collaborations are for science | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
excellence. The Minister has already talked of the importance of the | :43:10. | :43:15. | |
space sector, however the UK's continued, anticipation in projects | :43:16. | :43:18. | |
such as the Galileo programme are under serious threat -- | :43:19. | :43:24. | |
participation. Galileo is the EU's answer to the US's system GPS. This | :43:25. | :43:32. | |
is important because GPS can be blocked in times of conflict. Europe | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
needed an independent system that it could rely on the UK's potential has | :43:38. | :43:46. | |
been frozen out of both systems potentially a dangerous possibility. | :43:47. | :43:52. | |
I would argue that the single most important elements to ensure we | :43:53. | :43:55. | |
continue to maintain the UK's position as a science superpower is | :43:56. | :44:02. | |
protecting and valuing the people who make UK science so impressive. I | :44:03. | :44:09. | |
was delighted to welcome the principal of Glasgow University to | :44:10. | :44:16. | |
parliament a fortnight ago. We were provided with interesting | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
statistics. Peter Aldous 20% of the teaching staff and 50% of the | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
research staff at Glasgow were EU nationals. If we consider the | :44:26. | :44:32. | |
different types of staff referred to firstly we have the typically young | :44:33. | :44:42. | |
postgrad or post-doc researcher. Less likely to have family ties that | :44:43. | :44:45. | |
for some would make it difficult to leave and go elsewhere. So this is a | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
highly mobile group of people for whom the institution has been chosen | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
because of its speciality in a particular area. However, there | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
will, by the nature of science, and many other institutions across | :45:01. | :45:04. | |
Europe who have expertise in similar areas. The next group of staff are | :45:05. | :45:14. | |
more established. They are holding more senior research lecturer | :45:15. | :45:16. | |
positions and in charge of large projects or a large teams, and may | :45:17. | :45:20. | |
well have family ties which make it to leave. But what both these groups | :45:21. | :45:25. | |
of staff have in common are the doubts that have been placed over | :45:26. | :45:30. | |
their future. The UK Government may well say that nothing will change | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
for them in the short-term, but I keep hearing about the requirement | :45:35. | :45:39. | |
for other EU states to offer reciprocal arrangements for UK | :45:40. | :45:46. | |
citizens. So these scientists, some of the very best minds in the world, | :45:47. | :45:50. | |
the very people enabling the UK to maintain its position at the | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
forefront of world science, the people who are contributing to the | :45:55. | :46:01. | |
UK economy. We know that in Scotland alone are world-class academic | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
sector of 19 universities create an annual economic impact of 7.2 | :46:07. | :46:15. | |
billion. These very people are being compared to non-economically active | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
pensioners living in Spain. How insulting is this to these top | :46:19. | :46:25. | |
scientists to be used as bargaining chips and negotiation rights to | :46:26. | :46:29. | |
remain? And which one of us would hang about where we are not wanted? | :46:30. | :46:36. | |
My own husband is an EU national and an engineer. His 17 years service in | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
the UK Armed Forces have been reduced to details of his place of | :46:42. | :46:48. | |
birth. Thankfully in Scotland the First Minister has made robust | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
statements on the importance of our EU nationals, and has thanked them | :46:53. | :46:55. | |
for choosing to make Scotland their home. But we need similarly strong | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
leadership on this from the UK Government. We need assurances | :47:01. | :47:05. | |
called for in the recent Science and Technology Committee report on | :47:06. | :47:09. | |
leaving the Rapp. These recommendations which have already | :47:10. | :47:13. | |
been highlighted, included an immediate commitment to exempt EU | :47:14. | :47:17. | |
researchers already working here from any wider potential immigration | :47:18. | :47:24. | |
controls. But we need to go further. We should not be looking to exempt | :47:25. | :47:29. | |
any researcher with the required skills, whether or not they are | :47:30. | :47:35. | |
already resident in the UK. Because if we don't offer these assurances | :47:36. | :47:38. | |
there are plenty of countries ready to sap these scientists up. Moving | :47:39. | :47:45. | |
on to EU students, we have the potential for serious impact in | :47:46. | :47:48. | |
higher education sector if we are not clear about what their | :47:49. | :47:54. | |
immigration and fees status will be post-Brexit. Again, this potentially | :47:55. | :48:00. | |
represents lost funding streams. The University of Liverpool in their | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
submission to the Science and Technology Committee, stated that if | :48:05. | :48:07. | |
they have no new EU students coming to study them by 2018-19 there are | :48:08. | :48:17. | |
loss of fee income would be 6.2 million. In Scotland are EU students | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
contribute massively to the local economy and increase the diversity | :48:23. | :48:27. | |
and the student experience for all involved in higher education. | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
Indeed, the financial loss is only one aspect, and we need to consider | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
how we will protect the talent streams from the EU. Currently in | :48:37. | :48:47. | |
the UK we cannot fill our places with EU students. The EU students | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
who come to study in our institutions provide future talent | :48:52. | :48:57. | |
in areas of key shortages. I would ask the minister Watt student | :48:58. | :49:00. | |
recruitment strategies are being considered in key stem areas both at | :49:01. | :49:06. | |
home and abroad? What fee structures will be in place post-Brexit? | :49:07. | :49:13. | |
Because, an attractive UK university will quickly become less attractive | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
if EU students are asked to pay international student fees. Already | :49:18. | :49:26. | |
these restrictions pose major hurdles for non-EU scientists hoping | :49:27. | :49:29. | |
to come to the UK for short study visits. What will happen post-Brexit | :49:30. | :49:35. | |
when an EU research hopes to collaborate with a UK group? Of | :49:36. | :49:42. | |
course, we keep hearing Brexit means Brexit, but does Brexit really mean | :49:43. | :49:45. | |
that the UK's international reputation for science should be | :49:46. | :49:52. | |
threatened? Leaving the EU presents major challenges for the future of | :49:53. | :49:58. | |
UK science. But there is no representative of science on the | :49:59. | :50:02. | |
Brexit negotiations and science must have a voice in any negotiations. | :50:03. | :50:08. | |
The clock is ticking. We need action now to prevent fundamental and | :50:09. | :50:15. | |
lasting damage. Albert Einstein once said two things are infinite, the | :50:16. | :50:22. | |
universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe. | :50:23. | :50:29. | |
CHUCKLES This government needs not to be | :50:30. | :50:32. | |
infinitely stupid as it gambles with this most important area of the UK | :50:33. | :50:42. | |
economy. Peter Lilley. Thank you. It's a great honour to follow the | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
member for Glasgow North West, with whom I do agree on some aspects, | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
particularly the importance of giving assurances to EU nationals, | :50:52. | :50:54. | |
whether scientists or not in this country, that they can stay. What my | :50:55. | :51:01. | |
Right Honourable friend the Minister, the Shadow minister, have | :51:02. | :51:07. | |
said about our universities is if anything an understatement. They are | :51:08. | :51:10. | |
every bit as good as they say and more. I shall argue that they are | :51:11. | :51:18. | |
too modest. Our universities underestimate how attractive that | :51:19. | :51:24. | |
they are and will be not just in the EU but around the world. They | :51:25. | :51:27. | |
underestimate their ability to persuade their own government of the | :51:28. | :51:30. | |
importance of funding research if they have been successful in | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
persuading EU institutions of funding research in our | :51:35. | :51:39. | |
universities. They underestimate, given their success in attracting | :51:40. | :51:43. | |
students from outside the EU, how successful they will be in | :51:44. | :51:45. | |
continuing to attract students from within the EU once we are no longer | :51:46. | :51:52. | |
a member. So the universities have actually been too modest and too | :51:53. | :52:02. | |
afraid of change. They should look forward positively to the | :52:03. | :52:04. | |
opportunities that will open up when we are no longer in the EU. Three | :52:05. | :52:10. | |
issues have been raised. The first is money. They claim that 10% of | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
publicly funded UK research and develop that comes from the EU. That | :52:15. | :52:20. | |
is, of course, a grossly misleading figure. During the referendum | :52:21. | :52:23. | |
campaign there was much debate about the use of gross figures of our | :52:24. | :52:29. | |
contribution to the EU rather than net figures. For instance the gross | :52:30. | :52:37. | |
figure of ?350 million a week on the side of the Leave bus was | :52:38. | :52:40. | |
criticised. I always use the net figure and we know from the Office | :52:41. | :52:44. | |
for Budget Responsibility that the net figure that we will get back | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
when we are no longer members of the EU will be ?250 million a week. | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
Anyone who criticised that figure should be equally criticised and | :52:53. | :52:58. | |
critical of those who quote the gross receipts from the EU without | :52:59. | :53:04. | |
mentioning our contributions to it. The Honourable Lady did mention. In | :53:05. | :53:10. | |
the case of the Horizon programme, we should not talk about the gross | :53:11. | :53:13. | |
figure of 8.8 billion but the net figure of 3.4 billion over the | :53:14. | :53:20. | |
period 2007-2013, which is of the order of half a billion a year and I | :53:21. | :53:23. | |
will come back to that significant figure. Overall we are net | :53:24. | :53:31. | |
contributors to the EU according to the OBR figures of exceeding ?13 | :53:32. | :53:38. | |
billion a year so it shouldn't be too difficult for a universities to | :53:39. | :53:42. | |
argue for the continuation of the money they receive from the EU being | :53:43. | :53:49. | |
funded in future directly from the Treasury instead of indirectly via | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
the EU from a Treasury which will then be ?13 billion better off after | :53:54. | :53:59. | |
meeting all the commitments that are currently funded from EU funds. I | :54:00. | :54:07. | |
will now come to the issue of collaboration. It is obviously | :54:08. | :54:13. | |
important that that we continue to provide opportunities for UK | :54:14. | :54:19. | |
researchers to collaborate with high-calibre researchers across the | :54:20. | :54:25. | |
world. Not just in the EU, but across the world. Because our | :54:26. | :54:27. | |
universities and researchers are such high-calibre that they will be | :54:28. | :54:33. | |
in demand as partners and shall be given opportunities to work with | :54:34. | :54:42. | |
partners from across the world. If there are barriers to collaboration | :54:43. | :54:46. | |
with researchers in North American, Asia, Australasia and Latin America | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
I'd like to know about them. I constantly hear and meet researchers | :54:51. | :54:56. | |
from those countries in the UK. If you look at the figures it turns out | :54:57. | :55:02. | |
there we have 32,000 EU citizens working as academics in the UK, we | :55:03. | :55:07. | |
also have 21,000 from non-EU countries working here so there does | :55:08. | :55:12. | |
not seem to be too much difficulty in getting researchers and academics | :55:13. | :55:21. | |
from outside the EU. If there are such problems, why have I never been | :55:22. | :55:25. | |
lobbied by the universities to overcome the problems of bringing in | :55:26. | :55:32. | |
citizens from non-EU countries? Do not like Americans, Latin Americans, | :55:33. | :55:37. | |
Asians? Do they prefer Europeans? Shouldn't we be seeking | :55:38. | :55:39. | |
opportunities worldwide and not narrowly in the EU was Mac I have | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
been hinted at I should make progress rather than take | :55:44. | :55:51. | |
interventions, I'm afraid. If there are such difficulties, let's | :55:52. | :55:53. | |
overcome them and make sure they don't apply to Europe EU students in | :55:54. | :56:01. | |
the future. Then we come to the issue of student numbers. The | :56:02. | :56:11. | |
universities UK talk about increased barriers to recruiting EU students. | :56:12. | :56:15. | |
I understand there are some 115,000 EU students currently in the UK, and | :56:16. | :56:21. | |
of course they are entitled to loans from the British taxpayer and the | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
right to stay and work after they have ceased studying. By contrast, | :56:27. | :56:33. | |
our universities are spectacularly more successful in recruiting | :56:34. | :56:36. | |
students from outside the EU. Even though they students pay the full | :56:37. | :56:42. | |
cost of their education, effectively helping to subsidise all of the | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
other students, British and European at university. And they have no | :56:48. | :56:54. | |
right to, or more restricted rights, to remain and work in the UK. | :56:55. | :57:01. | |
The universities claimed, in the past, when we interdeuced full fees | :57:02. | :57:07. | |
for foreign university students that it would make it impossible for them | :57:08. | :57:14. | |
to recruit from abroad. Happily, they were wrong, spectacularly | :57:15. | :57:20. | |
wrong. I've no doubt they'll be equally wrong about the, their | :57:21. | :57:25. | |
ability to continue recruiting EU students once we are no longer | :57:26. | :57:32. | |
members of the EU. EU countries are closer, they're richer than many of | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
the countries from which we do recruit students paying full fees. | :57:37. | :57:40. | |
But we ought to take into account, when we're assessing the costs and | :57:41. | :57:46. | |
benefits the cost to this country at present, from giving loans to EU | :57:47. | :57:54. | |
students, which are inevitably more difficult to get back when they've | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
left. Indeed official figures show that only 16% of EU students are | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
currently repaying the loans that they've received from the British | :58:03. | :58:06. | |
taxpayer. I don't know what the figures are, but I'll venture some | :58:07. | :58:10. | |
so that people can knock them down and come back with better figures. | :58:11. | :58:18. | |
Supposing 60% of these students - would the right honourable gentleman | :58:19. | :58:22. | |
like to intervene if he's got some funny point to make? We haven't got | :58:23. | :58:30. | |
any facts or figures. I'm trying to elicit them Madam Deputy Speaker. | :58:31. | :58:34. | |
There are 115,000 students, I don't know how many have loans. Let's say | :58:35. | :58:39. | |
60% take out loaneds. If only -- loans. If only 16% of them repay, | :58:40. | :58:43. | |
that mean it's costs the British taxpayer over ?500 million a year to | :58:44. | :58:49. | |
subsidise EU students. Now I hope that the minister can tell us that | :58:50. | :58:52. | |
the sum is less than that. Or members on the other side can tell | :58:53. | :58:56. | |
us that it's less than that. But perhaps they're not interested. | :58:57. | :58:59. | |
Perhaps they like dishing out British taxpayers' money without | :59:00. | :59:03. | |
calculating how much is at stake and for whom. Now the other aspect that | :59:04. | :59:11. | |
universities are worried about and rightly worried about is whether | :59:12. | :59:19. | |
immigration controls will imprink on our -- impinge on our ability to | :59:20. | :59:24. | |
recruit students from the EU. They reiterated their demand that student | :59:25. | :59:26. | |
numbers be excluded from the immigration figures. That's a | :59:27. | :59:30. | |
somewhat disingenuous request. That's not what they really want. Of | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
course, if students return to their home country after studying here, | :59:36. | :59:40. | |
the net contribution of students to the net immigration figure is zero. | :59:41. | :59:46. | |
What universities mean is not they want the figures excluded but they | :59:47. | :59:52. | |
want the limitations on students' right to remain to be lifted. They | :59:53. | :59:58. | |
want to, as it were, sell university places by giving it the added | :59:59. | :00:02. | |
benefit that you can get round our immigration controls. They want that | :00:03. | :00:07. | |
in the present for those come being from outside the EU and they want to | :00:08. | :00:11. | |
maintain it in future for those coming from the EU when we're not in | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
it. I think that is not the right way to approach it. We should have | :00:17. | :00:23. | |
immigration rules, which allow us to recruit students from abroad, but to | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
ensure that they return later. And that we can recruit academics from | :00:28. | :00:33. | |
abroad as we do at present and without creating added difficulties | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
for it. If we do, if we have sensible policies about continuing | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
our fundy, which we'll be able to afford to do, about continuing to | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
recruit from abroad, which we ought to be able to do, and we don't | :00:49. | :00:55. | |
impose any new restrictions on recruiting academics, I think the | :00:56. | :00:57. | |
opportunities for British universities will be far greater | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
than they imagine and I urge them to put their excessive modesty behind | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
them and set aside their fear of change and embrace the opportunities | :01:08. | :01:09. | |
which Brexit will give them. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker for | :01:10. | :01:19. | |
calling me and giving me the opportunity to make my maiden speech | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
today. It's a privilege and an honour to be standing here as the | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
located representative of Richmond Park, which brings with it a great | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
responsibility that I shall use my best endeavours to fulfil. I wish to | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
pay tribute to my predecessor Mr Zac Goldsmith and thank him for his | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
excellent constituency work on behalf of my fellow residents over | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
the last six years. In particular, we owe him our unending thanks for | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
his efforts to block plans to build a third runway at Heathrow. The fact | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
that he felt he could no longer be part of a Conservative Party that | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
improved expansion demonstrates his passion and commitment to the cause. | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
It's a cause that I take up willingly on behalf of constituents, | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
who know that the claimed economic benefits of expansion will not | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
compensate for the impacts of the increased noise and air pollution | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
that millions will suffer if expansion goes ahead. I would also | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
like to acknowledge the contribution of his predecessor my fellow Liberal | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
Democrat Susan Kramer who fought the third runway for so many years. I | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
look forward to working with colleagues from all parties as we | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
continue to make the case against expansion. It's a particular honour | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
to be elected to represent Richmond Park, not just because it's my home | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
and the place where I have been bringing up my family, but also | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
because of its great history and wonderful environment. Richmond | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
takes its name from the Earl of Richmond, later Henry VII, who built | :02:48. | :02:54. | |
his great Palace in 1500. Henry VII was the king, who having won a great | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
victory at the battle of Bosworth, came to power at a time when the | :02:59. | :03:01. | |
country was catastrophicically divided by the wars of the roses and | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
urgentsly needed leadership to bring it back to harmony an prosperity. | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
Britain today is a divided country, split asunder by the decision taken | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
in June this year to leave the European Union. At it's hard to see | :03:15. | :03:21. | |
how these divisions can be healed. It's my belief Parliament can be a | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
positive force in bringing together the two sides of the Brexit debate. | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
If the arguments can be aired openly, questions answered | :03:30. | :03:31. | |
thoughtfully and votes taken on all the significant points of | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
difference, then each British citizen will see their point of view | :03:36. | :03:38. | |
is being represented whichever way they voted in June. There can be no | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
question of people being silenced or sneered at for their opinion on | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
Britain's future within the European Union. I make no secret of the fact | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
that my own opinion is that we remain. I believe that the will of | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
the people is the same today as it has always been, to live in a | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
prosperous and stable society. Our spoments and Parliamentarians are | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
the -- responsibilities are the same as they always have been to act in | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
the best interests of our country. We have a duty to future generations | :04:09. | :04:14. | |
to bequeathe them a society in which they can thrive. Evidence and | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
instinct suggests that collaboration with our nearest neighbours benefit | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
our trade, education, environment, security and our individual well | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
being. Such benefits should not be carelessly thrown aside without a | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
careful, sober and detailed examination of what the consequences | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
will be. The impact of Brexit will be wide ranging and not just | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
financial. In my constituency, our hospital relies on the hard work and | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
dedication of migrants from Europe. Many of my constituents work in | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
financial services, which rely on our privileged position inside | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
Europe. Many of our businesses import from and export to the | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
European Union and rely on the tariff free access for their | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
success. Many families, hard working, community spirited, warm, | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
friendly people have come to our little corner of London from across | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
Europe and made it their home. And in the area of science and research, | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
there is no doubt that the UK has benefitted hugely from its | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
membership of the European Union. I had the enormous privilege before | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
being located as MP to work for a world renowned science and research | :05:24. | :05:26. | |
organisation. So I've had some experience of the discussions and | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
the concerns that the prospect of Brexit has raised amongst the | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
science community. The obvious impact will be the lack of access to | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
research funding provided by the EU. There is no question that the UK is | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
currently a net beneficiary of this. Between 2007 and 2013 we paid in 5 | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
billion euros to the Horizon 2020 fund and received 8 billion euros | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
back in grant funding. The impacts go deeper. One of the biggest | :05:54. | :05:56. | |
concerns is that by being shut out of access to EU funding, UK | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
scientists will also be excluded from cross-EU collaborative projects | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
and lose access to specialist laboratory facilities across Europe. | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
This will result in a loss of opportunities for UK scientists to | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
participate at the very forefront of research. UK laboratories and | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
research facilities currently benefit from the ability of | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
scientists from across the EU to come and work here. If Brexit | :06:20. | :06:22. | |
inhibits the ability of EU nationals to move to the UK, then UK based | :06:23. | :06:28. | |
science and research will suffer. The success of UK science and | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
technology industries will be receiptical to our future economy | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
and we should be doing all we can to nurture and promote them. Dinot | :06:36. | :06:42. | |
aspire to be a politician. I didn't ever expect to be standing here and | :06:43. | :06:49. | |
addressing members as I am today. I felt compelled to put myself forward | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
by the events of the last few months, not just the referendum | :06:54. | :06:56. | |
result, the Government response and the aftermath and the divided | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
society that has resulted. I wish to close by thanking fellow MPs from | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
all sides of the House for the warm welcome they have extended to me | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
since my election, unexpected though my election was, I'm enormously | :07:08. | :07:10. | |
excited by the opportunity I've been given and look forward to playing a | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
full part in the business of this House. We start with a seven minute | :07:14. | :07:22. | |
speech limit. Thank you very much Madam Deputy Speaker. Could I be the | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
first to congrape late the honourable lady on her -- | :07:28. | :07:29. | |
congratulate the honourable lady on her speech and particularly on the | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
generous tribute she paid to her predecessor and on the very real | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
knowledge that she brings to this debate with her own professional | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
background. She's clearly -- she clearly feels passionate about this | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
issue and the wider issues it brings about. I look forward to hearing | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
further contributions from her. I would just gently say that she | :07:50. | :07:56. | |
referred to the Brexit vote as deeply divisive. And leaving us a | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
divided country. I'd suggest to her that for some of us it seemed that | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
we were becoming a divided country before it and the hope is that now | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
those people who found themselves so many times on the wrong side of the | :08:09. | :08:11. | |
divide have actually spoken out, that we may find a way forward that | :08:12. | :08:18. | |
eventually suits everybody. I'm proud to be the representative of | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
the largest student body of any constituency in the country, with | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
the University of Kent Christchurch university and one of the campuses | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
of the University of the creative arts in my constituency, more than | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
20,000 students. I would say in answer to some of the earlier points | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
we've heard about the issue of visas, that it seems to me there's a | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
clear middle way to be followed here. It is absolutely essential | :08:48. | :08:53. | |
that top quality academics have access to visas here and indeed, | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
that those who are already here from the EU feel completely secure in | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
their jobs. I'm with all those who have spoken out on that point. I see | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
nothing in any way inconsistent in that with also believing that a | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
sensible immigration policy, which is what the country wants, must | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
include clamping down on abuses of the student route. The fact that | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
we've closed 800 phony colleges is a very important part of that. I'd | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
like to especially welcome what my honourable friend said in his speech | :09:27. | :09:36. | |
about accepting Sir Paul Merse's recommendations. I'm a supporter of | :09:37. | :09:42. | |
the need for a VAT Jay. For many -- strategy. For many years this | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
country was at the forefront of research and then to see it | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
exploited outside this country. You need a strategy and focussed | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
research policy in order to ensure that we get the most response from | :09:56. | :10:02. | |
our very, very successful university research programmes. The University | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
of Kent has facilities in Brussels, Paris, Athens and Rome and calls | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
itself the European Union verse I. I am -- university. I am delighted to | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
say that I think a withdrawal from the structures of the EU shouldn't | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
mean a withdrawal from Europe. There isn't time to list its successes in | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
the space world, but I would just say on the medical side, that just | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
in the last month, another grant from Horizon 2020 for research | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
network addressing biometric solutions for the use of mobile | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
devices, a successful bid for a 2 million grand for the Relate | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
programme designed a step change in how nature under-Pinochets human | :10:49. | :11:01. | |
well being. I, like -- under-pins. The Times league of international | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
universities puts 24 out of 25 of them in the English speaking world, | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
including five British ones. Intriguingly, the only exception is | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
the formidable ETH Zurich and Switzerland, like most | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
English-speaking countries, has a structure where free standing | :11:22. | :11:24. | |
institutions, something which is sadly not really the case in most | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
continental countries, where universities are much closer to the | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
government departments. While there may be a short-term concern, which | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
we've heard expressed several times now by speakers opposite that we may | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
lose out on collaborative ventures somehow, even though we're putting | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
the money in to compensate, because we may get attitudes from the other | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
side that are not actually in their best interests. The fact that we | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
have so much excellence, I believe firmly will win through. We also | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
have another advantage, which is particularly relevant to medical | :12:02. | :12:04. | |
research. When we're dealing with America, which has the largest | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
concentration of excellence in the world, we have a massive advantage | :12:09. | :12:14. | |
because we don't have the third party of the insurance companies | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
constantly creating a drag on research. If patients want to be | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
part of an experimental programme to access an experimental drug, perhaps | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
as their last chance to stay alive, they can sign up for it, in a way | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
they can't in America without permission from their insurance | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
companies, which is why, for example, our first 14 ECMCs, | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
experimental cancer medicine centres are attracting so much interest from | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
American pharmaceutical companies. I'd like to end by saying how very | :12:45. | :12:54. | |
strongly support the bid from Canterbury Christ Church University | :12:55. | :13:01. | |
and the University of Kent to setup the creation of a group of health | :13:02. | :13:04. | |
centres of excellence with a view in the long run to medical school in | :13:05. | :13:10. | |
Kent. We are the largest area in the country without its own medical | :13:11. | :13:19. | |
school. The inspirational leadership of Doctor Abdul would make sure this | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
medical school addressed the very buzzwords we keep hearing about we | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
need to fix in the NHS. It's no good talking about ending things like | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
silos, transferring things from secondary to primary care, about | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
closer links between social care and NHS care which people have been | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
talking about for 30 years, unless we hard-wired into medical training | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
together with feedback mechanisms to make sure people are brought | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
up-to-date automatically on new skills which have to be programmed | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
into the lectures. These are just some of the ideas which this | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
incredibly innovative programme leader is pushing for in this new | :14:04. | :14:09. | |
medical school. It's a sad fact that of the thousands of University of, | :14:10. | :14:16. | |
I'm about to run out, but students including my own son who is a | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
medical student, who come through our excellent hospitals, relatively | :14:21. | :14:22. | |
few of them stay because we don't have a medical school backing them | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
up. I'd like to recommend that to the Minister. Deputy Speaker, it | :14:29. | :14:35. | |
used to be the straight banana syndrome whereby some commentators | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
would blame everything on the European Union whenever anything in | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
the world went wrong. Well, that's flipped on its head now. I would | :14:45. | :14:52. | |
call it the private Fraser syndrome whereby the moment you mention | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
Brexit everything is doom and gloom, and forecasts of everything going | :14:57. | :15:05. | |
haywire and wrong. My advice on science and technology to government | :15:06. | :15:07. | |
is the same on other issues related to Brexit. Get on with it. Its | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
uncertainty that causes problems. That Article 50 vote should have | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
taken place in July. They were too busy having elections in September. | :15:17. | :15:24. | |
That should already have been passed. Delay and uncertainty is | :15:25. | :15:27. | |
what industry tells me they do not like and do not wish to see. The | :15:28. | :15:34. | |
repeal act, when it comes, let me give advice to the Government, I | :15:35. | :15:40. | |
hope they will listen. Make it simple. Every single piece of EU law | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
should be brought into broad usual. If the Conservative Party or any | :15:45. | :15:47. | |
other party wants to change that in the future they have plenty of | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
opportunity when it is British law to change it, but every single thing | :15:53. | :15:55. | |
in one Bill in one swipe should become British law. That would help | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
remove uncertainty and Saevarsson rather a lot of time in here to | :16:01. | :16:06. | |
concentrate on other matters. Now, may I say, how much I agree with the | :16:07. | :16:15. | |
member for Glasgow North West -- save us rather a lot of time. When | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
she says science does not see nationality. That's the whole part | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
of the problem with the EU when it comes to science and technology and | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
any other specialism. It sees nationality within the EU. The times | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
I was involved in bidding for money and within the EU structures and | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
rules you had to incorporate this EU country, that EU country, that body, | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
this body, in order to get the full mix to the exclusion of the rest of | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
the world, the other 170 nations and their expertise. That has been on | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
occasion a strength, but far more often a weakness within the EU. We | :16:52. | :16:57. | |
should not see nationality when we are looking at science and research | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
collaboration. We should be seeing where the best expertise is. I've | :17:02. | :17:11. | |
spoken to my own constituents. Several thousand have been polled. | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
There is somewhat of a consensus emerging in my area. The same with | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
the House. The vast majority of people who vote Remain, the vast | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
majority, see reducing immigration as critical to Brexit. The vast | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
majority of people who voted Leave see access to the Single Market, in | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
whatever form, as perfectly acceptable to them. Actually, I | :17:36. | :17:43. | |
think the consensus is far greater than people in here are prepared to | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
admit. Now, what kind of immigration, frankly, I do not think | :17:48. | :17:54. | |
that if this Parliament decides that the big universities should have its | :17:55. | :18:01. | |
students, teaching staff and other experts and scientists from abroad, | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
that my constituents are going to complain. I would go a step further, | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
I'd like to see regional work visas brought in. Frankly, Scotland, | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
Wales, Northern Ireland, if they choose whoever they choose to have | :18:15. | :18:17. | |
working in those countries, my constituents do not have a strong | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
view on it. Their care what happens in my locality, they care whether we | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
can stop Mr Ashley and Sports Direct bringing in 3200 people from abroad | :18:28. | :18:30. | |
and stopping my constituents applying for jobs and reducing their | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
wages in adjoining industries. That is what they are bothered about. I | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
think solutions in relation to where we need to be our straightforward, | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
though negotiations will always be complex. Get on with them. Think of | :18:46. | :18:54. | |
the things we've missed out. We were the leaders 30 years ago. In these | :18:55. | :19:02. | |
things, technology, the world leaders. We had the scientists. Our | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
weakness was always turning it into manufactured products. The entire | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
digital era, digital microphones, they are all forms of digital | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
technology, where we were world leaders 30 years ago, we got wiped | :19:19. | :19:21. | |
out because we were incapable of turning it into effective products. | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
And indeed, I think that the EU did not assist us in relation to that. | :19:28. | :19:34. | |
Similarly as well, looking at the energy sector, where we were world | :19:35. | :19:40. | |
leaders but where classically, when it comes to science and technology | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
and energy, the EU goes in ten different directions at once because | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
of national pressures and doesn't have that coherence. Europe lags | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
behind on energy technology. Robotics, again in the 80s, we were | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
the world leaders. Are academics were the greatest in developing | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
robotic technology. But neither Arsenal others in Europe were | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
capable of delivering that into the jobs that others did. We missed and | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
skipped a generation in terms of application, and the whole computer | :20:16. | :20:23. | |
industry even more graphically, we did not protect our embryonic | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
industries and companies. We weren't allowed to protect our embryonic | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
industries and companies. Now we are. There is nothing wrong with | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
control and protection when you have a new sector emerging. For us to use | :20:36. | :20:43. | |
our freedoms to protect. The geothermal sector is clearly going | :20:44. | :20:50. | |
to be the next energy development. We have that capacity. We should be | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
protecting that sector to allow it to develop and using those freedoms. | :20:56. | :21:05. | |
That is why we have great opportunity. We've always had the | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
ingenuity. We want to keep the partnerships, including with the | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
Germans, the French, the Italian scientists and technologists, | :21:16. | :21:17. | |
allowing our universities to do so, but also with the rest of the world, | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
and use that freedom to protect those embryonic industries so they | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
will then result in production and jobs and wealth in this country as | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
well as the ingenuity and innovation. Doctor Tanya Matthias. | :21:32. | :21:38. | |
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. May one congratulate the member for | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
Richmond Park on her excellent maiden speech, and I look forward to | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
working with you on many aspects that affect residents of both of our | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
constituencies. I'd also like to thank the government for giving time | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
to this very important debate and very special thanks to the member | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
for South Basildon and East Thurrock for his very kind words. It was an | :21:59. | :22:04. | |
absolute joy to be interim chair of this excellent committee. What I'd | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
also like to point out is I did chair one of the sessions, is | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
members of the committee, some of the members of the science committee | :22:13. | :22:15. | |
voted to remain, like myself, some voted to leave. That this committee | :22:16. | :22:23. | |
is unanimous on this report about the EU and the opportunities and | :22:24. | :22:26. | |
risks for science and research, this committee is unanimous in wanting | :22:27. | :22:32. | |
Brexit to work for the science community and research. That's why | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
I'm especially proud of this report. Yes, the UK is a science superpower | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
as the ministers and members have said, we make up less than 1% of the | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
world's population but 15.9% of the world's most highly cited research | :22:47. | :22:53. | |
articles are UK. But science is, as we put in our report, a global and | :22:54. | :23:01. | |
mobile endeavour. My colleague again from South Basildon East Thurrock | :23:02. | :23:04. | |
was right to say people were the major factor that our committee | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
heard evidence about. The Minister is right to say the UK should be ago | :23:09. | :23:15. | |
to place, but note what we have in our report, the campaign for the | :23:16. | :23:17. | |
advancement of science and engineering said is not enough to | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
allow EU scientists and students to be in our country. We must fight for | :23:23. | :23:31. | |
them. That is how our science and research will succeed more. It is | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
great to have the guarantees for EU students, and I do note that the | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
Minister has repeatedly confirmed this for students now and the EU | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
students coming in 2017-18 for the duration of their course. But again, | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
we have to say the communication programme is not enough. That does | :23:51. | :23:58. | |
need to be worked on. Will also note and we are glad about the guarantees | :23:59. | :24:02. | |
for Horizon 2020, and importantly the guarantees on funding will not | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
be taken out of the science budget. They will be extra to it. I | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
absolutely applaud that. Also, subsequent to this report, I greatly | :24:11. | :24:18. | |
valued the Minister, the member for Worcester, who met several of my | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
token science businesses and researchers, and I know he took note | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
of many of those detailed points. What I would like the Minister to | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
note is that Horizon 2020 might finish, but we do need to put in | :24:32. | :24:39. | |
place as the laboratory of the government chemists pointed out our | :24:40. | :24:41. | |
own transitional research projects, but is also vitally important. Also | :24:42. | :24:48. | |
my colleague from Lewisham West and pension also alluded to concerns | :24:49. | :24:55. | |
about some of our EU researchers already leaving the UK. -- Penge. | :24:56. | :25:02. | |
This is where the committee said we need to have proper metrics before | :25:03. | :25:05. | |
and after the Brexit negotiations. Are we still lose and people? Are we | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
still ahead in those research projects? Importantly, as has | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
already been mentioned, but this is extraordinary and is a big negative | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
currently in the negative Domagoj Pavicic or exiting the EU, you do | :25:19. | :25:26. | |
need a chief scientific adviser -- Department for exiting the EU. That | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
has to be in place. You need guidance on the metrics, the | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
regulations. I know from the evidence from the British | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
pharmacological Society, it is critical, the European medicines | :25:41. | :25:43. | |
agency, yes, we were leading on those regulations, the clinical | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
trials pharmacopoeia Joe Lynskey. We have also had evidence from local | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
businesses, about the unitary patents system. You need your chief | :25:55. | :26:02. | |
scientific adviser to say what you're going to do about this. You | :26:03. | :26:09. | |
have to fight for the students, scientists and researchers from the | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
EU. We have to fight from the -- for the funding, maintaining those | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
research projects. But in this season, this Christmas season, we | :26:19. | :26:20. | |
have heard lots of wishes that should be on your Christmas wish | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
list from Santa. Primarily, you need Santa to give you a chief scientific | :26:26. | :26:28. | |
adviser. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm pleased to | :26:29. | :26:39. | |
follow the honourable member for Twickenham who made such an informed | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
speech and also the honourable member for Richmond Park who made an | :26:45. | :26:50. | |
excellent maiden speech. The importance of signs to Britain in's | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
Industrial Revolution is well known. Dear tourney in physics, Faraday's | :26:55. | :27:01. | |
electrical magnetism, the vaccination, these scientific | :27:02. | :27:04. | |
advances weren't simply great intellectual achievements, they also | :27:05. | :27:07. | |
made a difference to the way of life of everybody in this country and | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
indeed across the entire world and this is still true today. The | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
quality of our scientific research is valuable in itself. It's also | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
what underpins our economic performance, our standard of living | :27:23. | :27:29. | |
and our quality of life. It imbues our values as a civilised country | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
and it is what distinguishes us from our medieval forebears. The leading | :27:35. | :27:44. | |
clinical geneticist who was born in West Auckland undertook research in | :27:45. | :27:50. | |
1990 testing aspirin across 68 countries and that was how he found | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
that regular doses can reduce hereditary cancer. I asked him about | :27:55. | :28:02. | |
the value of pan EU collaboration and he said more effective, easier | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
to lure the best scientists onto projects and despite the | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
bureaucratic hurdles it produces better results. An industrial site | :28:13. | :28:29. | |
my constituency has a Glaxo plant. It facilitates precompetitive | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
research into such questions as liver toxicity which are far more | :28:34. | :28:36. | |
economic to carry out at a European level than could ever be the case | :28:37. | :28:43. | |
for an individual country. Currently Glaxo does 30% of its research and | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
development in the UK. It would be costly to move it but in a | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
worst-case scenario could happen. Honourable members have already | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
spoken about the financial benefits to us of joining in the EU | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
programme. One of the key things is that we are at the heart of shaping | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
the research. The European strategy Forum on research infrastructure is | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
currently chaired by British academic as is the board of the | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
European research area. We host EU facilities and headquarters. Does | :29:16. | :29:22. | |
the Minister think that if we became merely an associated country run | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
nonassociated third country we would still be leading the EU direction | :29:27. | :29:34. | |
for this research? Everyone values Horizon 20 20s so I'm calling on the | :29:35. | :29:40. | |
government to make continued membership of Horizon 2020 and its | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
success of programmes a key objective in the negotiating | :29:46. | :29:51. | |
strategy for Brexit. Then the Treasury Select Committee, the | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
Chancellor confirmed he was guaranteeing projects that receive | :29:56. | :30:01. | |
Horizon 2020 money. Beyond that period. The minister was not able to | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
tell us in the opening speech how researchers can now that their | :30:07. | :30:13. | |
guarantees meet these two further tests. I hope in the wind up the | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
other Minister, his colleague, can explain that to us. Many colleagues. | :30:18. | :30:24. | |
To save perhaps time in the wind-up, may I say to the honourable lady | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
that did Treasury will underwrite all successful bids if they are | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
approved by the commission even when specific projects continue. | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
Government departments will not assess Horizon 2020 grant | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
applications and it is an EU problem and grant funding is awarded by the | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
commission based on peer review. Beauty businesses should continue to | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
bid for those EU funds while we remain a member. I'm pleased the | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
Minister has given at confirmation, it sounds as if the Chancellor is | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
seeing that his criteria are met if you are a successful Horizon 2020 | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
bidder. Colleagues have spoken about the problems that will come if we | :31:05. | :31:12. | |
lose freedom of movement. At best discouraging European academics from | :31:13. | :31:15. | |
working here, at worst preventing people from coming at all. These | :31:16. | :31:23. | |
people make up over 20% of teaching staff in some of the most crucial | :31:24. | :31:30. | |
scientific subjects. Physics, astronomy, mathematical sciences, | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
biological sciences, chemistry and Mysterio sciences, computer | :31:36. | :31:37. | |
scientists. We cannot afford to Lee's -- Losey 's people -- material | :31:38. | :31:44. | |
sciences. I will not repeat what other colleagues have said and no | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
doubt will say but it is vital that ministers confirm the stages of | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
people who are in the country today but furthermore the government | :31:54. | :31:55. | |
should make it clear that they will seek a complete carve out for | :31:56. | :32:03. | |
British and European academics post Brexit so they can travel and work | :32:04. | :32:10. | |
in each other's universities. Thirdly, the government should | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
commit to a shared post Brexit regulatory structure so that | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
researchers have a level playing field, can minimise costs and can | :32:19. | :32:24. | |
continue to run large population experiments in parallel across | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
European countries. In essence, this would be an open market in research | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
and development post Brexit. What I think we have to remember is that | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
scientific development is essentially a collaborative and | :32:39. | :32:46. | |
cooperative part of human endeavour. It does not recognise national | :32:47. | :32:50. | |
boundaries in the quest for truth. This is not a new idea. Writing to | :32:51. | :32:57. | |
Robert Hooke in 1676, Isaac Newton said" what Descartes did was a good | :32:58. | :33:04. | |
step. You have added much, if I have seen further it is by standing on | :33:05. | :33:14. | |
the shoulders of giants. " It's an honour to be able to speak in this | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
debate and studio to follow on from the honourable member for Richmond | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
Park who gave an exceptional maiden speech and I wish her well. It takes | :33:24. | :33:31. | |
me back to my maiden speech, I think when I was speaking on the same day | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
as my right honourable friend the member for Loughborough and we both | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
topped on science I seem to remember and I congratulate her on the great | :33:41. | :33:43. | |
work she's done since in helping to boost skills in that vitally | :33:44. | :33:49. | |
important area. I'm delighted to be able to speak on the subject. | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
Science is absolutely vital field for us, even more so at this time of | :33:54. | :33:56. | |
significant change and great uncertainty. Brexit is not something | :33:57. | :34:02. | |
we should fear. The fundamentals of our economy are good, indeed the | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
forecasts indicate that growth will be stronger than Germany's and | :34:07. | :34:13. | |
France's next year and we should look forward in confidence as we | :34:14. | :34:16. | |
navigate our way forward and realise the real opportunities that lie | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
ahead. We need to use Brexit as a spur, a real call to action in | :34:22. | :34:24. | |
addressing long-standing challenges that have been a drag on our economy | :34:25. | :34:28. | |
for too long including the skills gap and below par productivity. | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
Science and technology has a vital role to play as I'm sure that | :34:34. | :34:36. | |
colleagues across the House would agree with. The action plan from the | :34:37. | :34:43. | |
medicine manufacturing industry partnership says it is part of | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
leaving the EU it is vital that the UK makes all efforts to retain and | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
continued to improve its fiscal offering in order to secure | :34:53. | :34:55. | |
investments and infrastructure in the UK and give confidence to | :34:56. | :35:02. | |
investors. That's why I joined the science and technology select | :35:03. | :35:05. | |
committee in welcoming the government's funding guarantees | :35:06. | :35:08. | |
relating to EU science projects that we have talked about at length in | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
this debate. I want to pay tribute to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
he gets this and understands how vitally important that as we build | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
investor confidence that we back innovation and productivity and | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
infrastructure and I welcome ?2 billion per year that he announced | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
in the Autumn Statement, absolutely vital to science and innovation. | :35:32. | :35:34. | |
It's a very important step in hugely welcomed. It's not just about | :35:35. | :35:40. | |
funding. Colleagues have spoken about the importance of | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
collaboration and I think that is critical to maintain relationships | :35:45. | :35:47. | |
with European and other international partners. We need to | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
do that and build our commitment to collaborations, not least of which | :35:53. | :35:55. | |
is the science project that is critical in our area, the square | :35:56. | :36:01. | |
kilometre array project which will see the creation of the world's | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
largest radio telescope photo we must continue to be ambitious in | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
backing a world leading scientific initiatives, it's got to be a clear | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
priority. That's why I welcome the Prime Minister's demand and her | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
ambition for a modern industrial strategy, one that fits a clear | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
place of the value of science. I think that she was absolutely right | :36:26. | :36:28. | |
that part of her campaign to win the leadership of the Conservative Party | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
was to say it's hard to think of an industry with the greater strategic | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
importance to Britain than it pharmaceutical industry and | :36:39. | :36:39. | |
describing AstraZeneca in that speech in Birmingham was a huge | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
significance for Michael Field as a jewel in the Crown of this country | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
and an economy. The Prime Minister also gets this. She has learned | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
lessons from Germany and from Australia who are setting a clear | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
industrial strategies and we now need to do the same. Not seeking to | :36:58. | :37:02. | |
pick winners but what we are seeking to do is to create the conditions to | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
enable winners to emerge without being picked. A fundamental | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
difference and we are well placed to do that. It's clear that as we look | :37:12. | :37:20. | |
at our industrial strategy, science has a role to play, life sciences | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
has a role to play particularly given the huge impact it makes not | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
just on creating jobs, 62,000 jobs and life sciences but the | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
productivity per employee that is so critical. ?330,000 of gross value | :37:34. | :37:39. | |
added per employee, it's staggering and critical that we get behind this | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
industry and other scientific endeavours to make sure that we | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
realise the productivity improvements that are available and | :37:48. | :37:50. | |
as we all know and this has it's critical that we tackle the gaps and | :37:51. | :37:56. | |
productivity that have plagued us for too long. Here are some of the | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
tasks I fitted a minister at the stage. Please continue to take | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
action on infrastructure, it will be critical to underpin our economic | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
performance, not just a jazz two by trans-Pennine links. Action on | :38:11. | :38:17. | |
skills. Driving the quality of apprenticeships, I'm pleased that | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
the Department for Education's full 16 skills Bunn has an emphasis on | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
health and sciences that will be vital. I also urge ministers to | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
speed up the adoption of new medical treatments by implementing the | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
accelerated access review. I was delighted to read what the Health | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
Secretary had to sit in his recent article that it's vital to life | :38:38. | :38:43. | |
sciences and it's critical in improving patient outcomes as well. | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
There's more that we need to see in the north. We talk a lot about the | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
Golden triangle of Oxford and Cambridge but there are important | :38:54. | :38:55. | |
clusters being developed in the North as well, not least of which is | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
the life science corridor in Cheshire that links in with the | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
university city of matches to as well. That is key for the Northern | :39:04. | :39:12. | |
powerhouse. That means we need more in way of the catapult centres being | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
created as a network. I'm delighted we are seeing one in launched in the | :39:17. | :39:22. | |
North in orderly park with the medicines technology catapult but we | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
also need to have the antimicrobial resistance centre located there as | :39:27. | :39:32. | |
well. As we do this we will build confidence in business as well. I've | :39:33. | :39:35. | |
already talked about in my intervention with the Minister, | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
AstraZeneca's investment in the northern Macclesfield which is most | :39:40. | :39:47. | |
welcome. Does my honourable friend agree that actually part of the EU | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
regulations on phase one clinical trials have not been helpful and | :39:52. | :39:54. | |
this is part of one of the opportunities we may have going | :39:55. | :40:00. | |
forward is? Absolutely, we need to seize those opportunities and get | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
behind science and get behind life sciences and looking at local | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
examples. Where AstraZeneca decided to relocate to an Cambridge we see | :40:10. | :40:15. | |
600 jobs being created in just a couple of years, highly important | :40:16. | :40:21. | |
jobs for the North. It's not just about life sciences, I've already | :40:22. | :40:26. | |
talked about and I hope ministers will support me in driving for it to | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
be nominated for a world Heritage site which will be key to celebrate | :40:31. | :40:37. | |
the heritage that site makes for the North and the visceral economy. | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
I will come in my closing remarks the work the government is doing to | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
re-examine its excellent work in research and development tax credits | :40:48. | :40:52. | |
and allowances and it's helped underline how important sciences are | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
and to show that the UK economy is open for business and I'm pleased | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
that the Chancellor has indicated that there will be a review of the | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
tax environment to make sure that we can build on the introduction of | :41:07. | :41:09. | |
above line tax credits to show we are even more competitive. I can | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
match the honourable member, the chair of the side select committee | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
for his Christmas closing but all I will see in the words of one of my | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
constituents and one of the great Christmas jingles is that it's time | :41:23. | :41:24. | |
for us now to look to the future it's only just begun. | :41:25. | :41:34. | |
Thank you, Mr Speaker, can I say to the honourable gentleman who just | :41:35. | :41:41. | |
spoke that apropos to the last line of the report, both my honourable | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
friend from Blakley and Broughton and myself, having known he would do | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
that, we would never have voted for it in the first place, but | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
nonetheless I am delighted to be here this evening to support the | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
committee 's report and to discuss this extremely grave and urgent | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
matter in the few minutes that I have. I shall try to be as brief as | :42:03. | :42:12. | |
possible. I congratulate the honourable member for Richmond Park | :42:13. | :42:14. | |
on a very coherent and well delivered maiden speech. I would say | :42:15. | :42:18. | |
to her that I disagree with her over Heathrow, but I do agree with her | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
over Brexit and exiting the European Union. I will set out my position | :42:25. | :42:31. | |
briefly, if I may. As I told the PM at the statement on the servants -- | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
27th of June following a referendum, that in all of my almost 25 years | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
now as a member of this house, when faced with any difficult matter I | :42:41. | :42:43. | |
have always regarded my primary responsibility is being towards the | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
people of Lewisham West and Penge. They voted by something of the order | :42:48. | :42:53. | |
of 2-1 to remain in the European Union which is very convenient for | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
me because I share that judgment. That is why just the week before | :42:59. | :43:06. | |
last I voted against the government amendment to the opposition day | :43:07. | :43:14. | |
motion on the timetable for article 50 and I was in a substantial | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
minority and I accept that, and I will probably remain in that | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
minority because I have told my constituents that I will not vote | :43:23. | :43:25. | |
for anything which undermines our relationship with the European | :43:26. | :43:29. | |
Union. My position is that we should really sought more effort to reform | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
the institutions of the European Union but that chance has now gone | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
and I accept what will happen in the future. Others have written to me | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
saying it is a betrayal of democracy but this has collectively may well | :43:45. | :43:50. | |
have two reserve -- represent the British people overall, but any | :43:51. | :43:53. | |
individual member of this has really only represents the people who vote | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
for them, and I am quite happy if I have got this issue Ronkainen and | :43:59. | :44:00. | |
that eventuality has been known to occur in the past, I will happily go | :44:01. | :44:07. | |
back to the map the next election and rest on their judgment. I do not | :44:08. | :44:13. | |
believe it is in the best interests of this country or the constituents | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
of the city in which my constituency is part, to leave the EU, and I | :44:19. | :44:24. | |
shall not vote for it. It is no betrayal or denial of democracy, as | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
some have suggested, for members to represent their constituents to the | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
best of their ability. This is an extremely important issue, as many | :44:35. | :44:37. | |
others have said in this debate, science and research, Britain and | :44:38. | :44:42. | |
the UK are amongst the international leaders of this some people always | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
say British is best almost in regard -- almost regardless of what it is, | :44:47. | :44:55. | |
but in this field, science and research, technology, there is a | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
clear and strong case to be made that Britain is in a particularly | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
strong position and what we have seen, I think, over the recent past | :45:04. | :45:09. | |
in today's debate is widespread concern at the uncertainty into | :45:10. | :45:15. | |
which British science and technology has been placed by the decision of | :45:16. | :45:21. | |
the 23rd of June and as an indication of just how much things | :45:22. | :45:25. | |
have changed in the intervening almost six months, when the | :45:26. | :45:31. | |
committee under the previous chair did a report earlier this year into | :45:32. | :45:38. | |
the EU regulation of life sciences, we took evidence in March and April | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
last year and published the first report of the 19 -- 20 60s/ 70s | :45:44. | :45:50. | |
version and will receive 19 written submissions. The report about this | :45:51. | :46:04. | |
debate and the Minister is play some evidence from him in October and | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
that enquiry given an extremely changed landscape of the science and | :46:10. | :46:12. | |
research background attracted no less than 264 written submissions. | :46:13. | :46:21. | |
From nearly all of EU research universities in these situations | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
have been mentioned today, many more from academics and researchers who | :46:27. | :46:31. | |
are individually concerned precisely about the position they have been | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
left in. I accept it will not be easy to provide the assurances in | :46:37. | :46:42. | |
the short term. I dissent from something one of my honourable | :46:43. | :46:44. | |
friends on this side said earlier, that we want to get on with it and | :46:45. | :46:50. | |
do it quickly. I accept the value of clarity in the short-term but I want | :46:51. | :46:57. | |
to make sure, despite my better judgment, that we get this right and | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
it's better to get it right then get it soon and if it's possible to do | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
both then all well and good. I think all members, not just the members | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
who are here today for this debate have received numerous submissions | :47:12. | :47:13. | |
recently about this debate this evening from a wide variety of | :47:14. | :47:18. | |
medical charities, universities and other organisations. I haven't time | :47:19. | :47:24. | |
to read it all out now but I commend the submission from the Royal | :47:25. | :47:29. | |
Society, which highlights a number of categories which need to be | :47:30. | :47:32. | |
addressed. Others have mentioned this. People, networks and | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
collaboration, investment and regulation. Those are cue areas | :47:38. | :47:51. | |
which we must address. I would say, actually, nearshore providing | :47:52. | :47:52. | |
clarity to people, the government could take the smart step of | :47:53. | :47:54. | |
guaranteeing the position of EU nationals in the UK now and then go | :47:55. | :47:57. | |
with a strong hand to the negotiations after article 54 equal | :47:58. | :47:59. | |
treatment of British National Party that. In conclusion, the result of | :48:00. | :48:02. | |
the referendum has raised serious questions over the future of a | :48:03. | :48:05. | |
number of vital industries and activities in the United Kingdom. | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
Financial services may be particularly exposed but I believe | :48:10. | :48:12. | |
research science research is equally significant to the well-being of our | :48:13. | :48:18. | |
people and omit the numerous complexities of redesigning our | :48:19. | :48:21. | |
relationship and our future relationship with the European Union | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
the government must award of it can as soon as it can to resolve the | :48:26. | :48:28. | |
serious issues facing the entire scientific and research community. | :48:29. | :48:34. | |
Thank you for calling me to speak in this debate. I welcome the fact that | :48:35. | :48:38. | |
this debate is happening in government time and I was delighted | :48:39. | :48:42. | |
to support the backbench application for it and it is a pleasure to | :48:43. | :48:46. | |
follow the honourable gentleman, the member for Lewisham West and Penge | :48:47. | :48:49. | |
and in her absence I want to congratulate the member of | :48:50. | :48:51. | |
Parliament for Richmond Park. Had she been here I would gently point | :48:52. | :48:56. | |
out to her that Richard III is a popular moniker in Leicestershire | :48:57. | :49:02. | |
and has been very good for our tourist industry. It is important to | :49:03. | :49:08. | |
my constituency and constituents because Loughborough University is | :49:09. | :49:11. | |
at the heart of the constituency. As well as potential life science | :49:12. | :49:14. | |
opportunities at the Charnwood campus. It is a shame the science | :49:15. | :49:18. | |
minister is not still at his place because I hoped he might have an | :49:19. | :49:25. | |
early Christmas present for us in stating an opportunity for that | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
Charnwood campus, although I do not expecting to make that announcement | :49:30. | :49:33. | |
this afternoon. I want to get the other business organisations reliant | :49:34. | :49:36. | |
on science and research in our local area, including Leicester | :49:37. | :49:40. | |
University. The science minister recently visited he will know that | :49:41. | :49:45. | |
according to the 2014 research excellence framework 65% of the | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
academic staff are involved in internationally leading research, | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
putting the University 17th out of 154 higher educational institutes. | :49:55. | :49:57. | |
They are tenth in England for research intensity and generate in | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
excess of ?40 million a year in research grants. Art experience, | :50:03. | :50:08. | |
which is directly relevant to the investor concerns about EU funding | :50:09. | :50:12. | |
and collaboration. I think it is right to recognise this and previous | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
government 's commitments to science and research funding and I want to | :50:17. | :50:19. | |
pay tribute to the science minister who is now backing in its place | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
anti-will have heard about my request for an early Christmas | :50:25. | :50:30. | |
present, and also the member for Mid Norfolk and the Minister for haven't | :50:31. | :50:34. | |
have fought the science corner in budgets and Autumn Statement and | :50:35. | :50:37. | |
spending rounds because this government is delivering on its | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
manifesto commitment to protect the science capital budget and the | :50:42. | :50:44. | |
budget will rise in cash terms every year in this Parliament. It is there | :50:45. | :50:49. | |
to say that in the general hubbub around the 23rd of June science and | :50:50. | :50:54. | |
research funding perhaps wasn't at the forefront of the campaigning. | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
Perhaps people don't always understand, I certainly didn't | :50:59. | :51:04. | |
before becoming a member of Parliament for Loughborough and | :51:05. | :51:07. | |
Loughborough University what Brexit might mean for innovation and jobs | :51:08. | :51:10. | |
and Britain's place in the world. The chairman of the science and | :51:11. | :51:13. | |
technology committee was right when he said that how this aspect Brexit | :51:14. | :51:18. | |
is handled, and I am paraphrasing here, it goes to the heart of | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
whether we remain an outward facing nation, leading the world in | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
research and cutting-edge technology or whether we see to that position | :51:28. | :51:30. | |
to other countries. One local business put it to me that being in | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
the EU puts us in a much larger market than the UK alone and it | :51:35. | :51:39. | |
helps to attract and employ the best people to compete in fierce | :51:40. | :51:41. | |
international markets in the UK should be seen as modern, open and | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
inclusive to invite further investment. I know that some on my | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
benches are going to disagree about the terms on which we conclude | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
Brexit, but I think we can agree from figures already | :51:56. | :52:06. | |
cited the UK research is enormously influential around the world. What | :52:07. | :52:10. | |
was missing before June 23 was just how important that EU research | :52:11. | :52:12. | |
funding is in supporting the UK's research and how much that funding | :52:13. | :52:15. | |
is at risk at the moment. It is not just about money, it is about things | :52:16. | :52:18. | |
like uniform regulations, and that is something which shouldn't be | :52:19. | :52:21. | |
overlooked in future negotiations and agreements. Advances in research | :52:22. | :52:24. | |
and consequent benefits to the society and economy could not be | :52:25. | :52:27. | |
realised by placing the same level of funding through a UK funding | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
body. Loughborough University tell me that urgent action is required to | :52:32. | :52:38. | |
guarantee UK participation, EU research networks, post-Brexit, | :52:39. | :52:41. | |
including continuing to contribute EU research problems -- programmes | :52:42. | :52:47. | |
initiated in the years after invoking article 50. We all have | :52:48. | :52:51. | |
anecdotes that research bids have been dropped completely due to the | :52:52. | :52:58. | |
events of 23rd of June. But I know of one case where the UK was invited | :52:59. | :53:03. | |
back into the project following the Treasury statement in August on | :53:04. | :53:07. | |
underwriting UK participation and that demonstrates how important that | :53:08. | :53:10. | |
announcement and continuing announcements in the same vein are | :53:11. | :53:13. | |
and I welcome the Chancellor giving that commitment. We have already | :53:14. | :53:18. | |
heard about the demands for the UK to be associated and have associated | :53:19. | :53:23. | |
countries spacious -- status and/or third country status which would be | :53:24. | :53:31. | |
much less satisfactory. I have a nonuniversity example, of Meadow | :53:32. | :53:34. | |
Link East Midlands who have supported over 1000 companies in | :53:35. | :53:41. | |
their development of innovations project that they ran. They have | :53:42. | :53:47. | |
three new ER DEF projects that we will continue to sport in the next | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
couple of years and it is worth noting that they have been the only | :53:52. | :53:54. | |
source of funding for business innovation projects available to | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
them since 2010. Over the last seven years MediLink East Midlands has | :54:01. | :54:05. | |
delivered an intensive programme of innovation support to the life | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
sciences sector. It supports over 1000 companies and it means a GDA of | :54:10. | :54:15. | |
over 8.2 million and safeguarding many jobs and 25 new product | :54:16. | :54:20. | |
launches. We have heard that none of this is possible without talking | :54:21. | :54:23. | |
about people. This is top of the worry list for those most affected | :54:24. | :54:28. | |
by this debate. We have already heard about how much money | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
International students bring, ?11 billion to the UK economy each year, | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
they also make an important cultural contribution. In 2012 and 2013 5.5% | :54:37. | :54:44. | |
of students in the UK were from EU countries generating billions of | :54:45. | :54:47. | |
pounds for the UK economy and sustaining 34,000 jobs in local | :54:48. | :54:51. | |
communities. I can tell the house that as a local member of Parliament | :54:52. | :54:54. | |
representing a large university they are not always high-value | :54:55. | :55:11. | |
jobs, they are cleaners and cooks and administrators that maybe | :55:12. | :55:14. | |
universities function. Leaving to one side the other jobs created | :55:15. | :55:16. | |
locally that rely on the university, such as retail and leisure. I echo | :55:17. | :55:19. | |
the calls of the member for Bath that students should not be taken | :55:20. | :55:21. | |
into account in net migration numbers. I welcome the Prime | :55:22. | :55:24. | |
Minister 's statement about an early deal on the rights of EU citizens | :55:25. | :55:26. | |
and I continue to push ministers to honour that. We are going to have by | :55:27. | :55:29. | |
2019 and new immigration policy, a new trading policy and we look | :55:30. | :55:32. | |
forward to a new industrial strategy and we must have a new relationship | :55:33. | :55:35. | |
that enables our institutions to take part in EU funding for science | :55:36. | :55:44. | |
and research. The debate about leaving the EU and science is not | :55:45. | :55:49. | |
unique in having myths associated with it. There are two myths I would | :55:50. | :55:55. | |
really like to talk about today. The first one is, and it has been | :55:56. | :56:00. | |
mentioned by a number of people, the problems with scientific | :56:01. | :56:03. | |
collaboration and financing. It has been well documented and elucidate | :56:04. | :56:13. | |
it that this country benefits in its research budget as a net gain in | :56:14. | :56:17. | |
research. It has also been pointed out that we are a net donor when it | :56:18. | :56:23. | |
comes to the overall European funding. What is often not stated is | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
that when you look at the science budget as a whole we are a net | :56:28. | :56:28. | |
contributor. Gerry 's sciences funded through the | :56:29. | :56:42. | |
European development fund. It should be possible with human ingenuity to | :56:43. | :56:48. | |
sort out that funding issue was that second late on collaboration, one of | :56:49. | :56:53. | |
my honourable friend 's mentioned 17th-century science. Isaac Newton | :56:54. | :57:00. | |
put his theory of gravity together while there was a plague going on. | :57:01. | :57:05. | |
He used the work of Johann Kepler who put his work together stealing | :57:06. | :57:11. | |
work in Denmark and working on the Italian and Polish work as a German | :57:12. | :57:17. | |
well the 30 year war was going on. Science finds a way to collaborate | :57:18. | :57:23. | |
across all sorts of boundaries. I want to quote really from the | :57:24. | :57:29. | |
science and technology committee is report that my honourable friend | :57:30. | :57:35. | |
from Lewisham referred to with the new regulation of life sciences | :57:36. | :57:38. | |
which was published a week before the EU referendum. This was passed | :57:39. | :57:45. | |
unanimously by the different parties on the committee after some debate I | :57:46. | :57:50. | |
have to say. It's worth reading because the myth is that the | :57:51. | :57:53. | |
European Union is pro-science and is good for science. The committee 's | :57:54. | :58:00. | |
enquiries showed some resistance from the European Commission to | :58:01. | :58:03. | |
evidence -based policy making and science including the hostility to | :58:04. | :58:10. | |
GM organisms and an unscientific news of the precautionary principle. | :58:11. | :58:18. | |
The clinical trials directive on the electromagnetic field directive as | :58:19. | :58:22. | |
well as the sacking of Professor Anne Glover, the EU is hardly a body | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
with a good record on science, the sacking of Anne Glover was a | :58:28. | :58:31. | |
disgrace, she was sacked not because she was a poor sciences, she was | :58:32. | :58:37. | |
sacked because she was a good scientists giving evidence about GM | :58:38. | :58:40. | |
foods which Greenpeace quite disgracefully lobbied against her | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
staying in the commission. Spineless as ever they sacked her. The | :58:45. | :58:51. | |
clinical trials directive has already been referred to, it was not | :58:52. | :58:56. | |
only a bad directive that led to science leaving the EU because it | :58:57. | :59:04. | |
was ineffective, it took too long, it was inconsistently applied and | :59:05. | :59:07. | |
there are new regulation is that the EU is now proposing for 2018 which | :59:08. | :59:14. | |
hopefully will be more effective but it's taken 20 years while science, | :59:15. | :59:22. | |
scientists and science have been leaving the EU to put the directive | :59:23. | :59:29. | |
right. The electromagnetic field directive was relatively quick in | :59:30. | :59:37. | |
being rectified and only took ten years to put that right, which was | :59:38. | :59:45. | |
hindering work on machines are used for diagnosing cancer is and other | :59:46. | :59:58. | |
diseases using magnetic resonance spectroscopy and that was being | :59:59. | :00:02. | |
hindered by the directive and to the EU ten years to put that right. | :00:03. | :00:13. | |
There was one phthalate that was banned so the EU then found another | :00:14. | :00:19. | |
series of them, almost the first lesson that any people gets in | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
chemistry is to point out that sodium chloride is essential for | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
life and potassium chloride as a poison, you can say because one | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
phthalate might poison rats which was the evidence -based they were | :00:34. | :00:41. | |
using but all phthalates with poison rats, the overuse of the | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
precautionary principle which means the ban on GM foods is continued, | :00:46. | :00:52. | |
that this country does not have the benefit of blight free potato | :00:53. | :01:00. | |
because of that and many other agricultural products which would | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
have been of benefit to us during the referendum debate we were told | :01:05. | :01:10. | |
how did the EU was for industry. I did get tired of pointing out that | :01:11. | :01:16. | |
our agrochemical industry had almost disappeared because of the | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
commission and the EU's attitude to science. Two other agencies that are | :01:23. | :01:31. | |
not EU agencies that have been mentioned in the debate, I will | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
referred to as indicating how anti-scientific the EU is. Once the | :01:36. | :01:41. | |
European Space Agency, which is an excellent organisation with some | :01:42. | :01:47. | |
very good work indeed. When they visited it in Rome just before the | :01:48. | :01:54. | |
last general election. The senior scientists were desperate to keep | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
the commission out of their work. They were worried about the | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
anti-scientific attitude and the Galileo project which is partly | :02:03. | :02:13. | |
funded by the European Commission and the European Space Agency use it | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
is three times over budget and is only halfway through and has taken | :02:19. | :02:25. | |
three times as long to complete as was expected. I will friend from | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
Lewisham said it was better to get it right. Not get it right. | :02:32. | :02:51. | |
Following the referendum I've been working very closely with | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
institutions and businesses in my consistency this includes not only | :02:56. | :03:32. | |
Plymouth University. The Marine biological Association which was set | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
up in 1870s to explore that we could never overfished our waters and | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
Plymouth Marine laboratories. PML did a great deal of research into | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
CO2 emissions and global warming and are not surprised the Captain Robert | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
Falk and Scott was a Plymouth by as well. About two p tribute to the | :03:53. | :04:01. | |
chief executive of PML for the work that he and his team have done in | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
preparing today's speech. Both PML and the NBA do much for science and | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
technological research, not only on science West but then the whole | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
country. They have done much research into the movement of | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
plankton in and around Antarctica and this is a key part of fishing | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
diet, if you take out the plankton all those fish which we are eating | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
wouldn't happen and that's why I was pleased that the recent Autumn | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
Statement the chance as the government is committed to making | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
science and research a linchpin of our economy after Brexit by taking | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
steps towards increasing scientific spending as the science and | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
technology committee has previously urged. The government has provided | :04:49. | :04:55. | |
the reassurance to the science and research community by promising to | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
underwrite the payment of EU grants extending beyond the point when the | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
UK believes the European Union. It's very interesting. This is more | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
important than ever because a government study recently found that | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
for every pound of public investment in research and development the | :05:15. | :05:21. | |
private sector puts another 126% on average and that is a pretty good | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
return as far as I'm concerned. I'm unashamedly pro-science, the | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
contribute to economic growth, new goods and services, attracting in | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
new jobs. When the former Prime Minister announced the referendum, | :05:37. | :05:44. | |
my local paper the great Plymouth Herald ran an article entitled 19 | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
things EU funding has done for Plymouth and let me just also say | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
that in 2020 we will be commemorating the Mayflower leaving | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
Plymouth to go and find the American colonies and interesting enough the | :06:00. | :06:02. | |
strap line for Plymouth used to be the spirit of discovery but then we | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
had said Francis Drake and an enormous amount of scientists who | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
have come from that. 16 of those 19 projects sit within my constituency | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
with many involved in science and research and ensure this level of | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
funding is vital for the industry and for my constituents. I recognise | :06:21. | :06:27. | |
all EU funding is not so well-paid but I would encourage the science | :06:28. | :06:30. | |
and technology committee to undertake enquiry into how this can | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
be improved as well. Statistics on the UK participation on the new | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
Horizon, published by the Department for business, energy and industrial | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
strategy earlier this month indicated the UK ranks first in | :06:46. | :06:47. | |
terms of participation within the programme. Previously published | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
statistics show the UK-based researchers need for more projects | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
in Horizon 2020 than any other nation. As we leave the EU I would | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
like the British Government to continue in investing in research | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
and development and in science organisations not just in the EU but | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
to use this opportunity to forge new alliances with our non-European | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
partners in the US, a significant amount of research and development | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
taking place and of course the far east including South Korea. Although | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
the costs of development in research might not be more is less in the | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
short term I hope that market forces will make sure we bring that down. | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
One of the contentious issues which we've heard about the whole issue of | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
immigration. I quite understand the government's position and I'm not | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
wanting to take out the student population but I think it is really | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
important that we make sure the government is much more proactive in | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
talking about the number of students who are making up inside that whole | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
thing. I'm aware that the government has got to do some work on that | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
whilst I welcome that any non-UK EU citizen who lived in this country | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
for five years will be allowed to remain here, I believe the | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
government must get the balance right between protecting those | :08:13. | :08:15. | |
researchers who contribute so much to our science and technology and | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
also listening to the very real concerns of this house have heard on | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
the doorsteps during the course of the referendum campaign on | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
immigration. June's referendum, Vote Leave the European Union was an | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
historic one but that has provided uncertainty but huge amounts of | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
opportunity for the science and technology sectors. Let's seize this | :08:40. | :08:41. | |
opportunity to show the world Britain is open for business and | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
ready to lead on the front when it comes to improve the lives of | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
everyone around the world through science and invention. | :08:50. | :08:57. | |
This is a very welcomed a bit and I congratulate the government for | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
recognised that members of this house are very worried about how the | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
panellist applies to take Britain out of the EU and what the fine | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
print of Brexit will be not least for science and research and the | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
many interlinked sectors and economies. The impact on our | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
universities and their ability to maintain immense contributions to | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
science and research is one of the many concerning and complex | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
challenges Brexit throws up. The wide role played by our universities | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
cannot be underestimated. Universities are engines for so much | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
in our economy and our society. According to the ISS degenerate and | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
annual output of ?73 billion for the UK economy, around ?11 billion of | :09:42. | :09:48. | |
export earnings for the UK. They create jobs, drive innovation, | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
support growth and are recognised for their integrity, quality and | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
innovation by the rest of the world. The regional and local level their | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
importance is no less noteworthy. The University of Bradford in my | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
hometown is an important and central part of the city in many different | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
and positive ways. The university supports local and regional growth | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
and encourages enterprise, business development, attracts investment and | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
talent and provides and creates employment. Bradford is not unique | :10:19. | :10:26. | |
in this regard. For universities are dynamic and make an invaluable | :10:27. | :10:28. | |
contribution to the UK's place in the world. Brexit must not be | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
allowed to undo that either intentionally or inadvertently. The | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
government must protect and enhance the way in which British | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
universities bring about positive impacts on behalf of the UK, not | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
least in the area of science and research. Collaborative working with | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
the EU in this field makes an enormous contribution to Britain. | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
The Association for modern universities in its own report on | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
the challenges of Brexit stresses the value of cross-country | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
collaboration between academics in different EU countries cannot be | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
undervalued. The collaborative research and the relationships that | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
stem from it needs to be promoted as part of the negotiations to leave | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
the EU. This is just as important as guaranteeing funding. In 2014-15, UK | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
universities received ?836 million in research funding from EU sources. | :11:22. | :11:28. | |
50% of the total value of all research funding that year. | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
Million-plus said this proves more funding from UK sources. The | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
Alzheimer Society offers one example of the importance of research for | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
and how about Brexit may damage Britain. | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
The society Prince at the British is a global leader in dementia research | :11:50. | :11:57. | |
but this issue could progress as we exit the UK. Myself and the | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
Alzheimer's Society origin the government to prioritise securing | :12:03. | :12:05. | |
continued access to EU funding schemes are programmes for research | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
as negotiates a new relationship with the EU post Brexit. It is one | :12:11. | :12:16. | |
example of how EU collaboration and investment can be critical, and | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
there are many others. Collaborations are vital for | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
science. Scientists should be able to work with the best in their | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
field, irrespective of their geographical location and | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
institutional affiliation. Researchers collaborate. They | :12:30. | :12:36. | |
overcome all sorts of institutional and financial difficulties by | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
working together and pooling resources together. EU funding has | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
played a part in overcoming the sorts of challenges researchers | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
face. I am sure I speak for many universities and all those | :12:51. | :12:53. | |
organisations who are beneficiaries of the research they do when I urge | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
the government to look seriously at how to make up shortfalls in funding | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
from research that arises from Britain's departure from the EU post | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
Brexit. I hope the government will commit to making sure any lost | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
research and innovation funding arising from Brexit is replaced and | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
I hope the government will reassure our research community and preserve | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
our international reputation by committing to a real terms increase | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
in science funding. Safeguarding what we have and reassuring those | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
with a vested interest is only the first step. The next phase will be | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
to ensure that the ways in which Britain works with the world does | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
not lose sight with the vital and specific needs of our universities | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
and research they carried out. The government will not just need a | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
long-term plan for leaving the EU but a plan for engaging with the | :13:48. | :13:49. | |
rest of the world on many important and fundamental levels. | :13:50. | :14:00. | |
Scientific research is one of the United Kingdom 's biggest assets and | :14:01. | :14:07. | |
we must see that British -- Brexit provides Britain with an | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
opportunity. We are in a position to critique on aspects of EU | :14:11. | :14:13. | |
legislation that hold us back holdback development and to adopt | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
the policies that have benefited us and create a Britain that is | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
increasingly outward looking and pioneering in science and research. | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
Many sectors claim that their people are the greatest asset but I think | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
this is most clear in the area of scientific research and innovation, | :14:31. | :14:33. | |
where individual qualities council so much. Skills need to be developed | :14:34. | :14:40. | |
over a number of years and there is a great deal of specialisation. | :14:41. | :14:47. | |
Recruitment for talented scientist is already challenging and the | :14:48. | :14:50. | |
potential for a barrier to go up between the UK and the EU was a | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
great concern. I was pleased that the Prime Minister attempted to | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
resolve this problem and enable the 1.3 British subjects living in the | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
EU to remain there and the 3.3 million EU citizens to remain here, | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
but I was disappointed that Donald Tusk, playing politics with people's | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
lives, rebuffed the proposal. When discussing migration, especially in | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
the context Brexit, we have to get the tone and values right. During | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
the referendum campaign I talked to hundreds of people about what it | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
would mean to leave the European Union, and controlling our borders | :15:27. | :15:28. | |
was a significant concern, though not the greatest. I did not meet | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
anyone who thought that we should stop scientists and engineers from | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
coming to an settling in the UK. There is a desire that Britain | :15:38. | :15:40. | |
should control her borders but also enable those who contribute to come | :15:41. | :15:47. | |
here. This should give an huge reassurance to the scientific | :15:48. | :15:50. | |
community that the British people greatly valued their contribution, | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
no matter from where they came. I university sector as world leading | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
with three in the world times University rankings top ten. There | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
is only one other European University -- organisation in the | :16:05. | :16:12. | |
top ten and that is Swiss. The whole European University sector post | :16:13. | :16:15. | |
Brexit must retain its attractiveness to EU students and | :16:16. | :16:18. | |
also enable more students to come from countries such as India by | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
removing barriers to those students. Since students come for a set period | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
of time for a specific purpose I also would make the case to take | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
them out of our immigration figures so that the numbers reflect seeking | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
to remain here. While leaving the EU has caused some to raise fears that | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
this will lead us to becoming an inward looking nation, cut off from | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
the world, and opportunities mostly prefer to be optimistic and Brexit | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
is an opportunity to ensure that people have the skill and talent is | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
that when it come to Britain so we have an immigration that works for | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
everyone. The UK has been a net beneficiary of EU funding for | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
research and benefited from the collaboration of EU programmes such | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
as Horizon Twenty20, although in this debate we do need to be clear | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
that our overall contributions massively outweighed any financial | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
returns in this particular sector. Some countries receive most of their | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
Horizon Twenty20 monies in structural funds to build up their | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
levels of science but in Britain we largely receive money based on | :17:30. | :17:35. | |
excellence. We ought to be clear that in this debate that scientists | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
from across the EU gain enormously by collaborating with us. We ought | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
not to think ourselves in a week and dependent position because we are | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
not. Members may know concern is about funding were raised in the | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
science and technology select committee seventh report of this | :17:56. | :17:57. | |
session. I'm looking forward to the government 's response in the New | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
Year. However, like many, I was encouraged by the recent government | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
announcement to guarantee funding for participation and projects under | :18:06. | :18:08. | |
the horizon Twenty20 initiative even if the project finishes after our | :18:09. | :18:16. | |
departure. The Prime Minister 's announcement of additional funding | :18:17. | :18:19. | |
for science and innovation of 2 million a year by 2021 through the | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
new invert terrestrial strategy is welcome although I would like a | :18:25. | :18:27. | |
little clarification as to where that money is to be spent. Since we | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
will no longer be a member of the EU we will not receive any funding from | :18:33. | :18:39. | |
Horizon Twenty20 's successor. Is it possible or expected that a | :18:40. | :18:46. | |
proportion of this 2 billion may be used to buy into, in part, or in | :18:47. | :18:53. | |
full, to Horizon Twenty20 's successor. Britain can participate | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
in Horizon Twenty20 outside the EU according to the EU commission 's | :18:59. | :19:05. | |
rules, just like Tunisia, Norway and Tunisia do. Brexit offers an | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
opportunity to correct any failings in EU policy in science or research | :19:10. | :19:15. | |
for example the clinical trials directive of 2001 which is widely | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
seen as being a failure due to increased costs, delays and also | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
differing interpretations across the EU. It is due to be replaced with a | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
clinical trial regulation that is widely expected to be much better | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
and is currently due to be implemented in October 20 18. It | :19:34. | :19:39. | |
does demonstrate how slow the EU can be to amend and change regulation, | :19:40. | :19:45. | |
this is taking nearly 20 years. In conclusion, I am glad to hear that | :19:46. | :19:48. | |
their reassurances on the future of British science and its funding and | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
also to note that the whole of the scientific community has a | :19:55. | :19:56. | |
responsibility to ensure the future of British science and it is for | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
each and every one of our scientists to go across the world to tell | :20:01. | :20:03. | |
everyone that we are open for business and science has a bright | :20:04. | :20:12. | |
future in the UK. I rise to speak in support of UK science and research | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
and particularly for the two world-class universities in Bristol | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
is, one in my constituency and the other just outside, University | :20:21. | :20:22. | |
Bristol and the University of West of England and also the business and | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
science incubators and catapults and other institutions that value and | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
need a good research environment within the European Union. Since the | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
referendum I have been talking with the universities about the impact of | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
a possible exit from the EU on science and research. The science | :20:40. | :20:48. | |
carried out at the University of is pioneering, from better early | :20:49. | :20:50. | |
diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease to tackling antimicrobial resistance | :20:51. | :20:52. | |
and food security, to understanding how we can prevent and stop violence | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
against women. The University of Bristol has leading researchers | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
doing vital work. Meanwhile across the city there is work on big data, | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
developing flood resilience, improving air quality, shaping | :21:06. | :21:08. | |
sustainable suburb of working on labour productivity and I am sure we | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
will all agree these are very important things and if I may join | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
in the Higgs boson name check, Mr Higgs was in the class of 1946 at | :21:18. | :21:25. | |
Cotham School in Bristol West, which has educated not just Mr Higgs but | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
my nephews and nieces are the sons of my honourable friend, the member | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
for Bristol South, so it is a school of which I am very fond so I'm glad | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
to get that mention in there. There are five cue issues of concern for | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
science and research and they are linked. No single strand stands | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
alone but they were bought out by the recent report. Funding has been | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
mentioned quite a lot today so I will not dwell on it. People, | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
collaboration and influence, regulation and facilities. As | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
Professor Ian Diamond, Gerald universities UK policy network | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
explained, there was no point having the regulatory framework if you do | :22:06. | :22:08. | |
not have the talent. There was no point having talent if you don't | :22:09. | :22:11. | |
have access to the grants. Chief development officer of innovate UK | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
said we cannot look at each of these parts individually, we need a | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
strategy and a plan which allows us to move the whole ecosystem forward | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
because together they take world-class science and they'd turn | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
it into jobs and growth and together they allow businesses to export and | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
compete in wider markets and build broader partnerships. My honourable | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
friend, the honourable member for Newcastle Central, said I was in | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
favour of science for sciences site but it is a mess of critical | :22:43. | :22:45. | |
importance at the moment that we are clear about the benefits of | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
world-class universities. The presence of the universities in | :22:51. | :22:53. | |
Bristol contributes such a lot, from the staff and the students and | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
whether they decide to stay beyond the life of their research project, | :22:58. | :23:05. | |
but some of them do not feel they should stay, they feel they should | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
take the offer from the University in Berlin or Bonn or Copenhagen. | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
Some of them say they feel like their families, when they have | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
partners from the EU, are no longer feel welcome, and that is a great | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
worry to me. Universities UK say they want the government to | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
recognise that our universities are one of our country's best experts | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
and they contribute indirectly through a long-term contribution to | :23:29. | :23:36. | |
knowledge. All of this is already been said so wayward junket. I have | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
every confidence that the universities of Bristol can compete | :23:43. | :23:49. | |
whatever the circumstances they find themselves in at the circumstances | :23:50. | :23:52. | |
need tackling. There are big universities such as those in my | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
Conservative -- my constituency but I'm concerned about small | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
universities that specialise in particular fields but are less | :24:00. | :24:02. | |
equipped on the economies of scale than the large universities in | :24:03. | :24:08. | |
weathering any storm. In Aberystwyth the Institute of biological | :24:09. | :24:11. | |
environmental and rural sciences, where I have to declare in test, | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
because my niece is a Ph.D. Student there, research there is pioneering | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
ways for crops to resist disease in finding out what microbes living | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
glaciers, but other small institutes such as the London School of | :24:25. | :24:27. | |
tropical hygiene and schools for music and arts and the Royal | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
agricultural University, they all have unique contributions to make, | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
but I worry that their size will make it harder for them to weather | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
the storm. I urge the government to consider the various options on our | :24:43. | :24:44. | |
relationship with the EU through this lens. What will make it easier | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
for our universities to continued to be the world-class institute is that | :24:51. | :24:53. | |
they currently are? What agreements can we make for free movement of | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
students and researchers? I will be open and honest in that I am a | :25:00. | :25:02. | |
passionate believer in the value of free movement of people and I think | :25:03. | :25:05. | |
universities have a strong case to make about why it applies to them. | :25:06. | :25:08. | |
What is the best regulatory framework for us to be in in order | :25:09. | :25:23. | |
to collaborate with other universities and how can we make | :25:24. | :25:25. | |
sure new medical treatments are not delay to British people because of | :25:26. | :25:27. | |
different rules? One way to ensure the government keep these in mind | :25:28. | :25:30. | |
would be, as was mentioned earlier, to have a voice of science in the | :25:31. | :25:33. | |
process. I am deeply concerned about the committee report that says the | :25:34. | :25:40. | |
post of chief scientific adviser post has not had the advert go out | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
yet. Finally I would like to ask the Minister to tell us at the end of | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
this debate if they have considered the other recommendations in the | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
report? Will the government commit to beeping student numbers out of | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
immigration targets and caps? If they have not already prepared a | :25:58. | :26:00. | |
response to the select committee, where will they do so? I hope the | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
Minister will be able to answer some or ideally all of these questions | :26:06. | :26:07. | |
because the production of knowledge is one of the things we do best in | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
this country and I am proud of it in my own constituency. It is a | :26:12. | :26:18. | |
pleasure to follow my honourable friend. | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
But excellent embargoes has heard as a whole has been profound, | :26:25. | :26:34. | |
especially in our grade universities. My constituency of | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
Cambridge is particularly productive. The University of | :26:40. | :26:41. | |
Cambridge has fostered over 100 Nobel Prize winners and the area | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
around is home to a thriving network of technology companies. As we were | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
once cautioned, unless we get smarter, we will get poorer. Eight | :26:53. | :26:55. | |
years later at a time when our relationship with Europe is at a | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
crucial junction, that is significant. Unfortunately, in the | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
words of the trade union representing people, they said it is | :27:06. | :27:10. | |
inescapable that UK science has taken a hit as a result of Brexit. I | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
want the government to provide assurances to the EU nationals | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
working in science and research around the country, existing staff | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
need certainty, something sorely missing at the moment. I've visited | :27:24. | :27:30. | |
a laboratory at the University of Cambridge as part of this pairing | :27:31. | :27:36. | |
scheme and I met her neurologist studying autism and I spent much of | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
the day with her and her colleagues, it was a brilliant and inspiring | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
day. What was striking was the number of people working in the | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
laboratory who were even new nationals. It is the same in | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
laboratories around the country. The Royal Society tells us there are | :27:52. | :28:00. | |
31,000 people working in the UK. The Institute outside Cambridge says | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
nearly a third of their employees are non-UK EU nationals. Cancer | :28:05. | :28:11. | |
Research UK, tell us that EU nationals were significant as part | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
of their workforce, dedicated to beating cancer sooner, with 33% of | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
the Ph.D. Students and 39% of the research Fellows non-UK EU | :28:20. | :28:28. | |
nationals. Another laboratory says 45% of their post-doc researchers | :28:29. | :28:34. | |
are from the EU and at the university came at as a whole, a | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
quarter are EU nationals. They are undertaking valuable work across the | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
UK to tackle global challenges and improve the lives of people and they | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
make a huge contribution to UK science and research, but sadly, | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
written evidence from the organisations I have mentioned, | :28:53. | :28:55. | |
testifies to those people all feeling anxious and unwelcome, | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
insecure or even abused, and concerned about their ability to | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
continue working here, I find that genuinely horrifying and I urge the | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
government today detail EU nationals working in UK science that they are | :29:08. | :29:16. | |
welcome here. The evidence shows that the EU research who come here | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
are the top of their field. Grant recipients in 2014 were non-UK EU | :29:21. | :29:26. | |
citizens and the University of Cambridge argued that UK | :29:27. | :29:29. | |
institutions risk using this talent and the accompanying funding, should | :29:30. | :29:36. | |
EU nationals not be attracted to the UK. A potential consequence of any | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
restrictions on freedom of movement and losing access if funding is not | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
just about attracting talent, it is about retaining it. Of course, all | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
this is not just about the UK standing, it is about scientific | :29:50. | :29:52. | |
progress itself, collaboration and the pulling of talent is essential | :29:53. | :29:58. | |
to innovation. The famous discovery of the construction of DNA involved | :29:59. | :30:03. | |
a visiting US scientist and antibodies were developed by an | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
Argentinian. Science knows no borders, so talented people and | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
their ideas must be allowed to flow freely. EU citizens being required | :30:12. | :30:17. | |
to apply for a Visa to work in UK universities poses a risk to the | :30:18. | :30:23. | |
ability of universities to retain staff, it -- maintaining mobility | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
and refusing to create barriers must be a priority and Brexit | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
negotiations. I would like to conclude on a couple of other vital | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
areas. I have spoken before about the importance of ensuring the UK | :30:36. | :30:42. | |
has access to the regulatory framework. Project that importance | :30:43. | :30:51. | |
-- reject that importance and access to new treatments will slow down, | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
drugs prices will go up and our NHS will foot the bill. Our sector will | :30:57. | :31:01. | |
sucked. Think a bridge there are over 106 to life science companies | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
and of the country is that the single market, they will no longer | :31:05. | :31:15. | |
be able to work the BMA. Sweden has reported to host the E M a | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
headquarters. Our technology sector is reliant on maintaining the | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
system. In this case ensuring that data protection rules are in line | :31:24. | :31:30. | |
with the new general data protection regulation after Brexit. Data flows | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
are essential everyone both our technology and financial services | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
sectors to remain competitive. During an adjournment debate | :31:41. | :31:43. | |
recently, the minister said we want a data protection framework that | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
works best for the UK and meets our needs. Those consultations will be | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
forthcoming. I wonder if we can now be told when those consultations | :31:52. | :31:55. | |
will be published. He said that the government are considering all | :31:56. | :31:57. | |
options for the most beneficial way of ensuring that the data protection | :31:58. | :32:03. | |
regime continues to build confidence and trust, safeguard systems and | :32:04. | :32:09. | |
supports people in a global data economy. Perhaps the Minister can | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
outline some of those options. We need better answers from the | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
government and soon or we risk seeing the advantages achieved by | :32:18. | :32:27. | |
Britain at great cost. Thank you. I wanted to follow the previous | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
Speaker from Cambridge and I feel that he has covered every corner of | :32:32. | :32:35. | |
how important it is that science and the movement of people and | :32:36. | :32:39. | |
scientists is kept in place. I don't really apologise about being here to | :32:40. | :32:45. | |
speak on behalf of Northern Ireland, I was vice-chair of the Education | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
Committee for three years and watched under the previous minister, | :32:50. | :32:57. | |
cuts in the funding to teaching and to the whole of science and yet | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
somehow, Northern Ireland remained up there, high with its results. We | :33:02. | :33:04. | |
should note that this year, they have dropped some six places in the | :33:05. | :33:11. | |
tables on science and we should keep that in mind. What I am really | :33:12. | :33:17. | |
leading to and I spoke on this last week, that it is key to Northern | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
Ireland, being an island with the land border to Ireland, that we keep | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
our trade and keep our movement of people and it becomes even more | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
essential to our economy. The universities themselves want all | :33:32. | :33:38. | |
universities in the UK to thrive, Queen's University is part of the | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
Russell group of universities but they see it as absolutely essential | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
that we keep them ability of staff and students throughout the whole of | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
Europe and that we keep the access to research funding and the | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
collaboration in projects. That is the key and that is really what I | :33:56. | :33:58. | |
asked the ministers when they are looking at Northern Ireland and | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
Brexit, to put at number one. Putting research and development and | :34:04. | :34:07. | |
the funding for the universities as one of our very top matters. We have | :34:08. | :34:12. | |
Ulster university and Queen's University with the Magee campus in | :34:13. | :34:21. | |
Londonderry and when it comes to funding, the Ulster university has | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
9.9 million euros to date and is looking to try and get another 10.5 | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
million, Queens has attracted 61 million and wants to get more, but | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
the message that they are really sending to us is that they need | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
clarity. They want an end to the uncertainty, they know the funding | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
is being guaranteed until when we leave, but after that they need to | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
be able to promise something to the people they are trying to attract, | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
so that we hold them there and do not leave them. If I can borrow a | :34:52. | :34:54. | |
little bit of the Christmas spirit, someone said to me last week, that | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
we should be following the star, all students follow the star, they want | :35:00. | :35:08. | |
to go to that university where that star professor is and we have to | :35:09. | :35:10. | |
make sure that we keep the key people in the universities. I think | :35:11. | :35:13. | |
if there is a key message, please take that on board. I am grateful | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
for what the Chancellor said and the clarification, but in our case in | :35:18. | :35:20. | |
Northern Ireland, we need to know that that funding is going to be | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
ring fenced and not lost in the Barnett Formula. It could go into | :35:26. | :35:28. | |
the Barnett Formula and be spent with other things, we need to make | :35:29. | :35:34. | |
sure that it comes through to the universities themselves. I was | :35:35. | :35:38. | |
pleased to see the British academy, one of their key points was to pay | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
particular that are critical attention to Northern Ireland and | :35:43. | :35:45. | |
working with the Irish and another point that we need to remember, 50% | :35:46. | :35:54. | |
of academic papers are written with international partners. That is how | :35:55. | :35:57. | |
it should all remain, we should keep working together. It doesn't mean it | :35:58. | :36:01. | |
all has to be with Europe, we can look outwards and that is what we | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
should be doing, to gather in the specialists from throughout the | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
whole world. Northern Ireland is well known for its aerospace, | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
defence, pharmaceutical, medical and many areas and if I can give you one | :36:15. | :36:21. | |
example, in cardiac, we have plenty of people who set examples, but we | :36:22. | :36:24. | |
have to make sure that happens into the future. At the moment, the | :36:25. | :36:31. | |
anecdotes that are coming back to us is that the Northern Ireland | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
universities are losing out and that people are already looking elsewhere | :36:36. | :36:38. | |
for collaboration. We have got to make sure we stop that happening | :36:39. | :36:45. | |
today. 6% of the university of Ulster come from Europe, 30% of the | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
staff from Queens come from Europe and really to make sure we keep | :36:50. | :36:58. | |
people. Another point to take on board, the appellate system tells us | :36:59. | :37:04. | |
the statistics that we are 9% down last year in students coming to | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
Northern Ireland -- UCAS. It has been increasing every year until | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
this year. That puts a key point at the top, we must look at what we are | :37:14. | :37:18. | |
doing on science. I have pleaded enough, I hate always making | :37:19. | :37:21. | |
Northern Ireland a special case, but it is our home and it is very | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
important and we need to work and see every word drive. Few will be | :37:26. | :37:34. | |
surprised if I approached the debate from a decidedly Scottish | :37:35. | :37:37. | |
perspective, with five universities ranked in the top 200 academic | :37:38. | :37:43. | |
institutions of the world, Scotland certainly punches above its weight, | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
something reflected in the world renowned academic research carried | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
out north of the border. The university of Edinburgh, for one | :37:53. | :37:55. | |
example, the research carried out there is truly ground-breaking and | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
you would be hard pushed to find someone who has not heard of Higgs | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
boson or Dolly the sheep. It is little wonder that that university | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
enjoys a consistent high placing in international league tables. We | :38:09. | :38:12. | |
should rightly be concerned when this esteemed university, was of the | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
risk of harm to the quality of its research posed by Brexit. In written | :38:18. | :38:24. | |
evidence supplied to the committee, the institution gives a stark | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
warning that our exit from the European Union could lead to fewer | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
excellent research is being permitted to apply to universities | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
here. If your international universities will be willing to | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
collaborate with UK universities and researchers and that less funding | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
could be available. There are arguments that this could lead to | :38:46. | :38:49. | |
the loss of its global reputation, a loss of opportunities for UK | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
researchers and scientists, and less high quality advice available to | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
government and business. This could seriously impact on our ability to | :38:59. | :39:04. | |
tackle global problems such as clean energy, food security and ageing | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
populations. All the governments seem capable of doing is sowing more | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
confusion with reports that the Home Office is now considering plans to | :39:14. | :39:18. | |
almost half the numbers of international student visas issued. | :39:19. | :39:23. | |
42% of the students at the university of Edinburgh Art EU and | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
international students and these proposals will only compound the | :39:27. | :39:32. | |
stark Brexit warning already issued. One positive measure that the | :39:33. | :39:35. | |
government could take right now is to give clarity that the immigration | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
rights of EU nationals currently living in Scotland will not change | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
in the future. Such assurances would help forward planning and the | :39:45. | :39:47. | |
retention of researchers and scientists. I recently received a | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
letter from the principle of the university of the West of Scotland, | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
which is planning to open a new state-of-the-art campus in my | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
constituency. In the letter, he emphasised the huge importance of | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
international students, not only to universities, but to the Society and | :40:07. | :40:13. | |
economy. He cites a report which found that the university generates | :40:14. | :40:19. | |
?530 million in Scotland and supports almost four and a half | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
thousand jobs. A significant element of the strategy of the university is | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
to grow the number of international students and it is my belief that | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
the uncertainty caused by Brexit stands to seriously jeopardise this. | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
The immigration status of EU nationals is not some negotiating | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
peace for the Prime Minister and threatening it as such is causing | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
damage. In addition to clarity, the government should be starting to | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
give answers on future research funding. The university of the West | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
of Scotland has received over 740,000 euros of funding, with | :40:57. | :41:04. | |
Scottish higher education institutions receiving around 106 to | :41:05. | :41:07. | |
5 million euros in total. The promise of a guarantee from the | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
Treasury on the funding is welcome, but simply does not go far enough. | :41:13. | :41:18. | |
The government needs to provide the necessary certainty, but academic | :41:19. | :41:21. | |
and research institutions to know that they will have enough support | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
for the duration of the projects and we need a clear sign of intent that | :41:26. | :41:31. | |
the government will put in place an equivalent funding framework post | :41:32. | :41:32. | |
Brexit. The decision to leave the EU will | :41:33. | :41:44. | |
further exacerbate the government failures. The effect on the economy | :41:45. | :41:51. | |
cannot be understated. The SNP Scottish Government takes a very | :41:52. | :41:56. | |
different approach, fostering innovation, investment and | :41:57. | :41:58. | |
internationalism. We want to see Scotland become a fairer and more | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
competitive economy and you can be assured that those of us on these | :42:04. | :42:10. | |
benches will not stand idly by and watch the Tories wage war on our | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
world-class educational institutions. Almost six months | :42:16. | :42:18. | |
after the vote to leave the EU it is time for the government to get its | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
act together and to start getting answers and I hope the Minister will | :42:23. | :42:30. | |
come up with some answers today. I am very grateful for the opportunity | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
to speak in this important debate on a subject that is very close to my | :42:36. | :42:41. | |
heart. As an NHS scientist before I came to this place I worked in a | :42:42. | :42:45. | |
field that thrived on collaboration and I recognised no geographical | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
boundaries. Our UK universities, as many have said, are brightly held in | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
high esteem worldwide and we have 18 of the top 100 universities in the | :42:56. | :43:01. | |
world including four in the top ten. I was pleased to hear the honourable | :43:02. | :43:07. | |
member from South Antrim says even Brexiteers I remain this when it | :43:08. | :43:16. | |
comes to our universities. You will get your chance. Considering Bridges | :43:17. | :43:23. | |
science, it is well-known that Britain punches well above its | :43:24. | :43:27. | |
weight in the International university league tables and it does | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
so mainly thank to EU grants. It is not awash with funding and it has | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
the lowest per capita spending on research of any G-7 country. The | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
referendum outcome has added uncertainty to its implications for | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
the higher placate -- higher education sector and it is easy to | :43:47. | :43:49. | |
trot out the phrase Brexit means Brexit, but the devil is in the | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
detail and for the future of science and research in this country that | :43:54. | :43:59. | |
detail cannot be glossed over in a sound bite. There are two aspects of | :44:00. | :44:04. | |
the human and intellectual cost of Brexit for universities. The first | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
is the potential for another brain drain and the second is the | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
potential restrictions on overseas research students. I say another | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
brain drain as it is sadly nothing new. Many senior figures in British | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
universities remember the lack of support from the Thatcher government | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
in the 80s and the exodus of scientists abroad. It is ironic that | :44:27. | :44:36. | |
the four British Nobel prize winners this year are all based in the US, | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
having been forced out during the 1980s brain drain. British research | :44:42. | :44:49. | |
scientists are worried, worried that the Prime Minister 's Matt and | :44:50. | :44:51. | |
Charles Brexit means Brexit will lead to a lack of funding and grants | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
for Bridges science and the potential for a modern brain drain. | :44:57. | :45:03. | |
Added to this is the potential for British universities to become less | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
attractive to international research students and FIS chancellors from | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
LSE, Kings College London, and Bristol, have already voiced their | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
fears about recruitment of international students with serious | :45:17. | :45:22. | |
financial as well as human resource consequences for our universities. | :45:23. | :45:25. | |
The Vice Chancellor of Cambridge University, Professor is a stalwart | :45:26. | :45:32. | |
Remainer but in common with many have voted to remain here is a | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
pragmatist and he wants Cambridge to get the best out of Brexit and he | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
says that to achieve this the government must provide some basic | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
clarity on what exactly Brexit means and he is asking for three things | :45:46. | :45:52. | |
from the government. The first one, clarity on the national status of | :45:53. | :45:57. | |
University staff. Second recognition of the collaborative ideal implicit | :45:58. | :46:06. | |
in EU projects. Thirdly a government guarantee of vital university | :46:07. | :46:10. | |
budgets. I would hope that the Vice Chancellor 's requests will be | :46:11. | :46:12. | |
listened to and heeded by this government. He is after all what | :46:13. | :46:18. | |
some might regard as something of an expert. Although the people of this | :46:19. | :46:24. | |
country were urged not to listen to experts during the referendum, on | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
this subject and on many others affected by the Brexit negotiations | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
it is absolutely vital that this government pays heed to our finest | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
minds. They are not asking for a running commentary, they are asking | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
for clarity and a coherent and informed plan as to the exact nature | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
and man of our departure from the EU. The EU makes substantial | :46:47. | :46:54. | |
financial contributions to research in UK universities, research funding | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
from the EU amounts to around ?1 billion per year, whilst our own | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
national research budget is below international averages. I represent | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
a greater Manchester constituency and universities across my region | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
have more than 4000 EU students currently on campuses. This equates | :47:14. | :47:18. | |
to spending of ?90 million per year, not just on tuition fees but also on | :47:19. | :47:24. | |
expenditure and American economy. Manchester University is 29th in the | :47:25. | :47:29. | |
world's top 100 universities and has received ?48 million on research | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
funding in the last two years alone. The loss of such substantial funding | :47:35. | :47:39. | |
and a failure to attract EU students could not fail to have a detrimental | :47:40. | :47:45. | |
effect on our area. I can't lay claim to a connection with Mr Higgs, | :47:46. | :47:51. | |
but one of Manchester University 's most famous academics, Professor | :47:52. | :47:57. | |
Brian Cox, who like me was born in Oldham,, he said in a recent | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
interview on the effects of Brexit said that the central issue for | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
science is that it is a global pursuit. I work at the hadron | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
Collider at certain in Geneva and that is a global project. The things | :48:12. | :48:16. | |
that scientists and universities are most worried about is the movement | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
of people around the world. We need to say this is a country where you | :48:21. | :48:26. | |
are welcome to live and study and do science, but at the moment we are | :48:27. | :48:28. | |
representing to Europe and the rest of the world is not the right one. | :48:29. | :48:42. | |
Do I have until 930 PM? Six minutes. OK, I will keep to the sex. I was | :48:43. | :48:48. | |
just save it was possible! I am very pleased to be speaking on this | :48:49. | :48:51. | |
debate and as the health spokesperson I can get great | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
interest in medical research and I am intensely proud of our | :48:56. | :48:58. | |
universities and Northern Ireland. I am happy to follow at the honourable | :48:59. | :49:04. | |
lady for Heywood and Middleton. I bat for my team in Northern Ireland | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
and I will do that now. As a Brexiteer and one who voted to leave | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
and who was very proud that the people of Great Britain made that | :49:15. | :49:16. | |
decision and my constituency in particular made that decision, I see | :49:17. | :49:23. | |
we now have opportunities. The Centre for Cancer research at Queens | :49:24. | :49:28. | |
University is a research centre with over 300 researchers from across the | :49:29. | :49:32. | |
world and they achieve the highest quality of research excellence. It | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
extends from population studies of cancer and three tumour biology and | :49:37. | :49:40. | |
clinical trials and health service research. The Institute itself is | :49:41. | :49:45. | |
committed to fostering transdisciplinary investigation and | :49:46. | :49:49. | |
cancer control that led the very interface between fundamental and | :49:50. | :49:55. | |
clinical population research. There are 250 faculty graduate and | :49:56. | :49:58. | |
postdoctoral trainees and support staff. Opportunists will graduate | :49:59. | :50:04. | |
and postdoctoral training offered in partnership with several departments | :50:05. | :50:09. | |
at the University including biomedical and cell biology and | :50:10. | :50:12. | |
biochemistry and microbiology and immunology in pharmacology and | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
toxicology and community health and epidemiology in mathematics and | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
statistics. Oncology, pathology and medicine. Queens School studies all | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
of these things at Queens University and they are done with expertise and | :50:27. | :50:31. | |
they are supported by the Terry Fox foundation in partnership with the | :50:32. | :50:34. | |
Canadian Institute of health research. This high level of | :50:35. | :50:37. | |
research needs a highly qualified and specialist skill set. On leaving | :50:38. | :50:44. | |
the EU we must ensure the skill set is protected and enabled -- are able | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
to continue the process work in our universities. I was -- I saw the | :50:49. | :50:57. | |
Royal Society president in a recent column wanting us to build on our | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
research we are doing that in Northern Ireland and we want to make | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
sure it happens. I have faith that the Brexit team understands the | :51:06. | :51:08. | |
necessity of the arrangements to be put in place to ensure that this | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
knowledge and skill can and will and shall take place. I am sure the | :51:14. | :51:16. | |
minister is nodding in appreciation and we will get that confirmed in a | :51:17. | :51:23. | |
few moments when he rises to speak. The University research benefits | :51:24. | :51:27. | |
from the top researchers in the UK includes several Nobel prize winners | :51:28. | :51:30. | |
and we must give them the opportunity to enable they are live | :51:31. | :51:36. | |
and work here in the UK. As president of the Royal Society said | :51:37. | :51:40. | |
30% of our academic research staff from abroad and a third of UK | :51:41. | :51:46. | |
start-ups funded by non-UK national rules and we are second only to the | :51:47. | :51:50. | |
US as a destination for global talent. We produce a first rate | :51:51. | :51:54. | |
environment for training home-grown talent and losing them would be a | :51:55. | :51:57. | |
disaster for our economy and we need to take immediate steps to reassure | :51:58. | :52:02. | |
those who are here that they are welcome. They are welcome and we | :52:03. | :52:04. | |
want them to stay and the Minister will say that very clearly in a few | :52:05. | :52:09. | |
moments. The role played by foreign centres and graduates must not be | :52:10. | :52:13. | |
overlooked or under estimated. They are an essential component in the | :52:14. | :52:17. | |
cog of our industry and I take this opportunity to underline that fact | :52:18. | :52:21. | |
in the chamber today and put it on record. In 2015 over half of the UK | :52:22. | :52:27. | |
research output was the result of an international collaboration and | :52:28. | :52:29. | |
these collaborations are increasing. The European research Council is | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
part of Horizon 2020 and it finds frontier research purely on the | :52:36. | :52:39. | |
basis of scientific excellence and it has established a very strong | :52:40. | :52:43. | |
international reputation. At Queens University we have international | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
partnerships with companies and business and other universities | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
across the United Kingdom and across the world. We are coming together to | :52:52. | :52:56. | |
bring the scientific excellence that is needed right there at University | :52:57. | :53:01. | |
-- Queens University in Belfast in Northern Ireland. The funding stream | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
does not require international collaboration and 58% of papers with | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
ERC funding has co-authors that are based in other countries. | :53:10. | :53:14. | |
Collaboration enhances the quality of scientific research and improves | :53:15. | :53:18. | |
the efficiency and effectiveness of that research and it is increasingly | :53:19. | :53:23. | |
necessary as a scale of both budgets and research challenges grow. I am | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
sure the Minister in his response will confirm that the collaboration | :53:29. | :53:32. | |
that takes place at this moment in time will continue post-Brexit and | :53:33. | :53:36. | |
into the future. The primary driver of most collaborations is the | :53:37. | :53:39. | |
centres themselves and in developing their research and finding answers | :53:40. | :53:45. | |
scientists will work with the best institutions and the best equipment | :53:46. | :53:47. | |
that complement their research where ever they may be. If so happens that | :53:48. | :53:54. | |
most of those good people are in Belfast at Queens University! This | :53:55. | :53:57. | |
will be maintained and enhanced and comes back to my point regarding | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
Brexit. It is an opportunity to put in place mutually beneficial | :54:03. | :54:05. | |
cooperation between countries that we must make the most but I believe | :54:06. | :54:11. | |
we will do just that. We work better as a team. Brexit must take this | :54:12. | :54:15. | |
opportunity to put in place the roles that enhance the games, bring | :54:16. | :54:19. | |
the best results and I have every confidence in the Brexit minister | :54:20. | :54:22. | |
and his team in this great nation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain | :54:23. | :54:25. | |
and Northern Ireland. Better together. Thank you, Madam Deputy | :54:26. | :54:36. | |
Speaker. Before winding up the debate it is perhaps worth noting, | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
as you will know, that while we have been debating this important issue | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
somebody has driven a lorry into a Christmas market in the heart of | :54:47. | :54:53. | |
Berlin, killing nine people. I am sure that I speak on the half of the | :54:54. | :54:59. | |
whole house in expressing our solidarity at this time with the | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
German people and expressing our shared commitment to work together | :55:05. | :55:10. | |
to oppose all of those who challenge the democratic values that we share | :55:11. | :55:17. | |
across Europe. Madam Deputy Speaker, this is the third of our general | :55:18. | :55:23. | |
debates on exiting the European Union and I am sure that at some | :55:24. | :55:27. | |
stage the government will trot out all of the hours we have spent in | :55:28. | :55:32. | |
the chamber and claim that it represents in some way, some sort of | :55:33. | :55:39. | |
involvement for parliament in the Brexit process. I see the Minister | :55:40. | :55:44. | |
nodding. But it misses the point. While we have had a very interesting | :55:45. | :55:51. | |
debate and members on both sides have demonstrated both their | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
understanding of and their commitment to the importance of | :55:56. | :55:58. | |
science and research in the economic future of our country, we have | :55:59. | :56:05. | |
really got to be illuminated march on the government 's thinking or the | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
government 's plans which perhaps na vely I thought would be something | :56:11. | :56:12. | |
to do with these general debates. I'd like to welcome the many | :56:13. | :56:23. | |
contributions that have been made, particularly, the powerful maiden | :56:24. | :56:26. | |
speech for the new member for Richmond Park. I'm sure that the | :56:27. | :56:35. | |
honourable member will pass on my view which I am sure will be shared | :56:36. | :56:40. | |
across the House, that she will add real value to this place and she was | :56:41. | :56:46. | |
also right to highlight the divided country that we have become through | :56:47. | :56:52. | |
this debate and the need for leadership. Leadership which I think | :56:53. | :57:00. | |
is sadly lacking at the moment, because, as I pointed out, we are no | :57:01. | :57:06. | |
clearer on how the government aims to protect science and research in | :57:07. | :57:10. | |
the Brexit negotiations. The chair of the Education Committee as a | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
simple and straightforward question, to the Minister in his opening | :57:17. | :57:23. | |
remarks, will the government seek associate country status in the | :57:24. | :57:26. | |
success of programmes to Horizon 2020 and we got no answer. And | :57:27. | :57:33. | |
honourable members are pointed out throughout the debate, as we | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
navigate our way in it increasingly competitive world, the future of our | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
economy will depend heavily on research and innovation. Many have | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
talked about the strengths, but there are glimpses as well | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
particularly in the lack of investment in research and | :57:51. | :57:55. | |
development. We have slipped from leading the OECD countries, in terms | :57:56. | :58:02. | |
of spent since 1979 and we trailed behind all of our competitors. OECD | :58:03. | :58:10. | |
countries like the EU average 2.4% but the country invests just 1.7%, | :58:11. | :58:19. | |
less than half the 3.9% investor by South Korea, which as a result | :58:20. | :58:24. | |
remains a major manufacturing nation. The strength though, Mr | :58:25. | :58:31. | |
Speaker, and it is considerable, the research capacity of our | :58:32. | :58:35. | |
universities as many have pointed out, but that strength is | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
potentially at risk if the government gets Brexit wrong. So | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
what does getting it wrong look like in relation to research and science? | :58:45. | :58:50. | |
What are the risks? The chair of the science and technology committee in | :58:51. | :58:55. | |
an excellent report produced by that committee highlighted the five key | :58:56. | :59:00. | |
issues, funding, people, collaboration, regulation and | :59:01. | :59:03. | |
facilities and he was also right to express the concerned that if we are | :59:04. | :59:08. | |
not careful, science could be one of the casualties of Brexit and I am | :59:09. | :59:12. | |
sure we share a desire across the house that that should not be the | :59:13. | :59:18. | |
case. It would in that context the useful if the minister in winding up | :59:19. | :59:24. | |
was able to answer his point on when the department will be appointing | :59:25. | :59:30. | |
scientific adviser. Mr Speaker, because our universities are so | :59:31. | :59:36. | |
good, we do disproportionately well from EU research funding, better per | :59:37. | :59:42. | |
head than any other EU country and EU programmes provide almost 15% of | :59:43. | :59:49. | |
UK university research funding. As the right honourable member for | :59:50. | :59:52. | |
Loughborough pointed out, we can all agree on the importance of this | :59:53. | :59:57. | |
funding and with that money comes a critical collaboration and my | :59:58. | :00:01. | |
honourable friend, the member for Bishop Auckland was right to | :00:02. | :00:05. | |
highlight that point about the Pan European collaboration that comes | :00:06. | :00:10. | |
with the involvement in Horizon 2020 and its predecessor programmes. All | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
of that is at risk if research is not put centre stage in the Brexit | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
negotiations. Second point that was made by the chair of the Select | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
Committee was about people and again, because our universities are | :00:26. | :00:29. | |
so good, they attract great staff from all over the world, 28% of | :00:30. | :00:35. | |
academics are non-UK citizens, 15% from the EU and for key research | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
staff, the number is higher, much higher, accounting for more than | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
half in some stem subjects and as the honourable member for Bristol | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
West highlighted, we have all heard stories of jobs declined, of those | :00:50. | :00:56. | |
already here questioning their in the UK because the government will | :00:57. | :00:58. | |
not give the assurance that this House asked for in July for a | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
unilateral commitments that those who are already here can stay when | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
we leave the EU on the same basis that they currently enjoy. As the | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
member for Glasgow North West pointed out, we should never forget, | :01:12. | :01:18. | |
these are highly mobile people. They don't have to be here. They have | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
lots of other offers available to them, they are not a drain, they are | :01:22. | :01:28. | |
an asset to the UK. And if we leave the EU with no deal on the future | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
movement of workers, we will fall back on current immigration rules, | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
which, as the honourable member for Cambridge pointed out, will not | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
work, because there are tens of thousands of early career academics | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
and researchers who will not meet the tier two income threshold which | :01:47. | :01:55. | |
would create a potential crisis for our research community. And so with | :01:56. | :02:02. | |
staff, so with students, as the honourable member for South Antrim | :02:03. | :02:09. | |
pointed out. Around 125,000 of our 436,000 international students are | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
from the EU and their future is uncertain and a survey before it | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
June the 23rd indicated that one third of non-EU students would find | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
the UK are less attractive destination if we chose to leave. | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
The worst outcome is that we could lose at more than half of our | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
international students currently in the UK, costing billions of pounds, | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
as the honourable member for Heywood and Middleton pointed out, the | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
impact on her local economy, which will be repeated in local economies | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
across the country. Not only costing money, not only costing jobs, but | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
bringing into question the viability of many courses, particularly | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
postgraduate courses and particularly in stem subjects which | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
would no longer be available to UK students. You would | :03:00. | :03:12. | |
imagine, Mr Speaker, that the government would be seeking to | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
mitigate this risk by setting out a clear strategy for maintaining our | :03:16. | :03:17. | |
position as a destination of choice for international students. Instead, | :03:18. | :03:19. | |
the Home Secretary, extraordinarily, has put international students at | :03:20. | :03:21. | |
the centre of her plans to cut migration, making a bad situation | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
worse. So, what do we need from the Brexit negotiations? Firstly we need | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
a plan and I am pleased that the House agreed and we are looking | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
forward to seeing it. So, we can start some meaningful debate and to | :03:38. | :03:39. | |
replace the general debates we are so much and join at the moment. | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
LAUGHTER. Clearly the Minister isn't going to shed the plan at this | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
stage, but I hope that he will share his views on a few key questions | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
which will be central to it. On funding, will he give a clear | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
commitment that the government will prioritise research and innovation | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
in the negotiations, with our partners in Europe, with a view to | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
ensuring continued UK participation in EU research programmes, not just | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
for the full duration of Horizon 2020, but for FP nine and success of | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
programmes and will he outlined beyond the 2 billion already | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
announced, which I think it takes our research and development to 1.9% | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
on a rough calculation, what plans he has two strengthen support for | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
research and innovation more widely to mitigate any damage from leaving | :04:33. | :04:40. | |
the EU. On staff, will he press for the earliest confirmation that EU | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
nationals working in our universities can remain on current | :04:46. | :04:47. | |
terms without having to apply for leave to remain, as the honourable | :04:48. | :04:54. | |
member for Lewisham West mentioned and will he say what assurances the | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
government will give to those who join our universities during the | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
pre-Brexit period until 2019, because if there are no such | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
assurances, then recruitment will be made significantly more difficult. | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
What representations is he making about future these arrangements post | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
Brexit so that we can continue to enjoy the benefits of securing the | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
services of the best researchers from the EU and the rest of the | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
world? And on students, does he agree that we need early clarity on | :05:25. | :05:31. | |
axis to student funding for EU students? We have it for next year | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
but what about 2018 and 2019 and will it apply to postgraduates as | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
well? Does he agree that we need to confirm the immigration status of | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
existing and prospective EU students and the right to remain in the UK | :05:45. | :05:52. | |
for work and postgraduate study? Mr Speaker, among the many issues we | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
face, these are relatively straightforward questions. But an | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
off a lot depends on the answers and if the Minister can't fully answer | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
them tonight, I hope that he will make sure that the answers are in | :06:08. | :06:14. | |
the plan that we will see in the New Year. Because our economy and our | :06:15. | :06:21. | |
future as a country depends on it. Robert Walker to reply to that. | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
Thank you very much, it is always a pleasure to follow the honourable | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
gentleman and may I echo his comments about the appalling loss of | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
life in Berlin. I am sure that the whole house will join us in | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
expressing sympathy for the victims. Our thoughts and bears are with the | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
families affected and we should stand shoulder to shoulder with | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
Germany and our European allies and partners after a terrible incident | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
of this sort. This has been an excellent debate and I would like to | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
thank all members, particularly the honourable lady of rich -- from | :06:59. | :07:05. | |
Richmond Park who spoke about Parliament bringing people together | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
after the referendum. We should all aim to do that. This has been, the | :07:10. | :07:17. | |
third it is here is a debate about important issues around the UK's | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
withdrawal from the European Union and I am promised by the Secretary | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
of State for Brexiting the European Union, I would like to know how | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
fruitful we have found these debates and I am glad that the honourable | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
gentleman for Chavez has enjoyed them so much. When the house | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
returned from summer recess, I had the very first debate in Westminster | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
Hall and it is a delight to be able to conclude this session with the | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
last major government debate in the main chamber. The UK's global status | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
as a science and research superpower is fundamental to our wider economic | :07:52. | :07:58. | |
competitiveness. The honourable lady for Newcastle described it as the | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
engine of prosperity. This government wants the new Quay to be | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
the old who plays for innovators and investors around the world and we | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
intend to secure the right outcome for the UK research base as we exit | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
the European Union. This debate has highlighted some of the issues that | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
we know we will have to consider as we negotiate to leave the European | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
Union, maintaining our science and research base is a top priority as I | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
think we have seen from the debate and it is shared by members on all | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
sides of this House and before I begin to respond to some of the | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
helpful points raised by members, I would like to take some time to | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
point out the action the government has already taken to secure our | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
place in the world of research and science. The government is | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
determined to ensure all the relevant views from stakeholders in | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
this base are reflected in our analysis of the UK's withdrawal from | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
the EU. We are conducting a range of meetings around are negotiating | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
position and this includes a wide programme of engagement within the | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
department to ensure the views of the research and science sectors are | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
heard and to reassure the honourable lady from Heywood and Middleton that | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
we are listing to experts. My ministerial colleagues and I have | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
met a number of higher institution educations and groups and just last | :09:15. | :09:25. | |
week I attended the new stakeholder working group, posted by my | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
honourable friend on EU exit universities research and | :09:31. | :09:33. | |
innovation. The sector strongly supports our ambition to create an | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
environment in which the UK as a whole can continue to be a world | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
leader in research, science and the tertiary education sector. We are | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
also continuing to talk with representatives of the science and | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
technology sectors between myself and ministerial colleagues, we | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
recently met with the Chief scientific adviser, the President of | :09:54. | :09:55. | |
the Royal Society and the President of the Royal Academy 's as well as | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
representatives from the life sciences, environment, space and | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
technology sectors, and the digital sector who have advocated a strong | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
position on freedom of movement of data. I'll Sue enjoyed giving | :10:11. | :10:17. | |
evidence to my honourable friend, to the Select Committee and I welcome | :10:18. | :10:20. | |
the report to which the government will be responding in full at a | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
later date. To his point and the point of my honourable friend for | :10:25. | :10:27. | |
Twickenham, we are working closely with the government 's chief | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
scientific adviser and the government office for science to | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
ensure that we have axis to the expertise that we need. Lastly I | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
visited Surry satellites in Guildford to see at first hand the | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
levels of innovation present in the UK space industry which my | :10:44. | :10:46. | |
honourable friend was right to praise in his opening speech. We | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
will continue to meet with such stakeholders in the coming months. | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
The government have already taken action on some of the concerns that | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
these groups have raised. The Treasury will underwrite all | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
successful bids from Horizon 2020 that are approved by the commission | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
even when specific projects continue beyond our departure from the EU | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
after 2020. This gives British participants and their EU partners | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
the assurance and certainty to plan ahead for projects that can run over | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
many years. The guarantees provided send a clear message to UK | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
businesses and the universities that while we remain a member of the EU, | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
they should continue to bid for competitive EU funding. | :11:27. | :11:33. | |
My right honourable friend for life gave an important example of where | :11:34. | :11:40. | |
it restored funding as a result. It will help to ensure that the UK | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
remains a world leader in international research. We have | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
provided further assurances to universities to confirm that | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
existing EU students and those starting courses soon will continue | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
to be evident -- eligible for student loans and home fees status | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
throughout their courses. We have extended that to postgraduate | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
support and studentships that will remain open to EU students starting | :12:06. | :12:13. | |
courses further on. Their course will be covered even if it continues | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
after the UK has left the EU. We will disc -- we will decide the | :12:19. | :12:25. | |
policy for the 18/19 academic year in good time for applications. We | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
were challenged over the government 's funding for science but at a time | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
of tight control over all government spending it is significant that we | :12:35. | :12:36. | |
were able to protect the science budget with a total investment of | :12:37. | :12:44. | |
?26 billion between 2016 and 2017 and 2020 and 2021. We have been | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
going further to protect the science ecosystem in the country and the | :12:49. | :12:51. | |
government have committed to real terms influences in research and | :12:52. | :12:58. | |
development. It rises and helps put Britain at the cutting edge of | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
science and technology and I join my friends the chair of the select | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
committee in welcoming that. The new industrial strategy challenge fund | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
will direct some of that investment into scientific research on the | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
development of a number of priority technologies, in particular | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
addressing Britain's historic weakness on commercialisation and | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
turning our world leading research into success. To realise the full | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
economic potential of these new technologies we have also announced | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
a review of support for organisations undertake research to | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
the tax system. The Treasury will look at whether we can make the | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
support even more effective to ensure the UK continues to actively | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
encourage innovation. Ultimately we need to ensure that our world | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
beating science and research base maintains global research excellence | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
in our institutions, innovation in our businesses, and strong local | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
economies across the UK. It has been striking during this debate to hear | :13:55. | :13:57. | |
so many honourable members from both sides of the cattle is -- from both | :13:58. | :14:08. | |
sides of the house from Loughborough, Bradford, Bristol West | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
etc, speaking passionately about the benefits of science, universities | :14:13. | :14:15. | |
and research bring to their constituencies. We can be confident | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
that our fundamentals are strong but we need to fully evaluate the | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
consequences, challenges and opportunities to UK science and | :14:24. | :14:26. | |
innovation of leaving the EU. It will take time and I am grateful for | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
the support and challenge we have received from this house and from a | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
very wide range of other informed sources as we do so. I do see | :14:35. | :14:46. | |
continuing confidence in the UK as a natural home of the world leader for | :14:47. | :14:49. | |
science and innovation. Since the referendum we have welcomed hundreds | :14:50. | :14:51. | |
of millions of pounds of new investment from many companies in | :14:52. | :14:58. | |
the life sciences and pharmaceutical sectors and a huge investment in | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
space technology. There have been important job announcements from | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
companies that will build four new data centres here in the UK. A | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
recent survey by the CBI says 70% of businesses plan to increase or | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
maintain innovation suspended following the vote to leave the EU | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
and only 7% plan to reduce their investment. The UK has always been | :15:23. | :15:24. | |
one of the most innovative nations on the face of the earth and I am | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
certain it will remain so. I want to move on to respond to some of the | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
helpful points raised by members across the house. We have covered a | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
wide range of comments and what I have learned is in three cue areas, | :15:39. | :15:47. | |
funding and collaboration. UK businesses should continue to build | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
for competitive EU funds while we remain a member of the EU and we | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
will work with the commission to ensure payment when funds are | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
rewarded. The Treasury will underwrite the payment of such | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
successful rewards even when it continues beyond the UK departure. | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
The government has reassured that structural and investment projects | :16:09. | :16:11. | |
signed before the UK withdraws from the EU will be guaranteed by the | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
Treasury up until 2020. These projects will have two provide | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
strong evidence and be in line with UK strategic priorities. We have | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
heard submissions from across the house of a future relationship with | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
Horizon 2020 and it is too early to speculate on the detail of our | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
future relationship and its successor programmes but the UK | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
Government is committed to ensuring we remain a world leader in research | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
and innovation. The views expressed in the house today are that many who | :16:42. | :16:52. | |
campaigned to leave have echoed what we have been hearing from | :16:53. | :16:55. | |
stakeholders on the importance of research mobility. We are carefully | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
considering the impact of this across the sector but our ambition | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
is to create an immigration system that allows us to control numbers | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
and encourage the best and the brightest to come to this country. I | :17:09. | :17:16. | |
will give way. Can I extend an invitation due to visit the Queen 's | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
University in Belfast because it will encourage them and it is a | :17:21. | :17:23. | |
chance to show what we are doing and it will also get the partnerships | :17:24. | :17:30. | |
growing even more. I would be delighted to accept that invitation | :17:31. | :17:33. | |
and I have already visited one university in Northern Ireland and I | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
would be absolutely delighted to visit another as soon as the | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
opportunity arises. There has been no change to the rights and status | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
of EU nationals in the UK as an immediate result of the referendum. | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
Prime Minister has been clear that during negotiations once to protect | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
the status of EU nationals already living here and the only | :17:54. | :17:56. | |
circumstances in which it wouldn't be possible would be if British | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
citizen rights were not protected in return. | :18:01. | :18:14. | |
I was glad to hear her repeat her desire to see such a deal, early in | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
her statement today. Looking to the future I will repeat again what my | :18:20. | :18:21. | |
Secretary of State has said before. We will always welcome those with | :18:22. | :18:24. | |
the skills of the drive and the expertise. I give way but I will | :18:25. | :18:26. | |
finish this point. The skills for driving the expertise to make our | :18:27. | :18:29. | |
nation better still. If we are to win in the global marketplace we | :18:30. | :18:31. | |
must win the global battle for talent. Britain has always been one | :18:32. | :18:34. | |
of the most tolerant and welcoming places on the face of the Earth and | :18:35. | :18:37. | |
it must and remain so. Back to the status of EU nationals in this | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
country. Everyone would notice the embarrassing position in which the | :18:43. | :18:45. | |
Prime Minister found herself at the European Council when she raised the | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
issue and her next remarks were that she ought to leave because she got | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
no response at all. I'm sure he cannot say this authoritative lead | :18:55. | :18:57. | |
but what is preventing the government from offering that | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
undertaking now and then going on to article 50 discussions at a later | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
date? I would simply say he of a gentleman that it is very clear that | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
the government has the ambition of securing this through the | :19:11. | :19:13. | |
negotiations. We have raised the issue at the European Council and | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
the response that the government has received is that there is no -- | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
negotiation without notification and we need to secure it through | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
negotiations. As many honourable friends have said there are | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
opportunities to support the needs of the research on community is to | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
attract global talent into the future. It is a mark of our success | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
that the UK is the second greatest destination for international | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
students after the USA. On international collaboration this | :19:46. | :19:48. | |
debate underscores what we have been hearing as to how vital successful | :19:49. | :19:51. | |
research is, we've heard about the importance of access to European and | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
global research infrastructure. Every international collaboration is | :19:57. | :19:58. | |
different and we would need to look carefully at all of them to ensure | :19:59. | :20:03. | |
that UK scientists continue to have access to cutting-edge equipment and | :20:04. | :20:07. | |
corporations. In the majority of cases UK access to research | :20:08. | :20:10. | |
facilities is not dependent on being a member of the EU. At Cern we | :20:11. | :20:18. | |
remember in our own right and it will continue and also at the | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
European Space Agency, our membership is not dependent on the | :20:23. | :20:25. | |
EU and we will continue the investments we are taking them. We | :20:26. | :20:29. | |
have made no final decisions on how our future relationship with | :20:30. | :20:32. | |
research in the EU will look and there are a number of options | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
available but international collaboration in this space is | :20:37. | :20:39. | |
nothing new. We are thinking through how best UK researchers can continue | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
to work with the best of their international counterparts, European | :20:45. | :20:46. | |
and more widely. We start from a strong basis with a recent survey | :20:47. | :20:52. | |
showing that 47.6% of UK articles were internationally co-authored. We | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
should seek to keep building on this. The decision to double our | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
investment in the Newton fund was a positive statement of intent in this | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
regard that my honourable friend for Plymouth Davenport made clear we | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
must take the broader global opportunities in this space. The | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
honourable gentleman for Bassetlaw is no longer in his place by his | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
endorsement of our strategy, are there he is, I greatly welcome. I | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
would like to close by saying that this government is committed to | :21:25. | :21:26. | |
ensuring that research and innovation in the UK will continue | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
to be a major success story after we withdraw from the EU. As the Prime | :21:31. | :21:36. | |
Minister said earlier we will negotiate to reflect the kind of | :21:37. | :21:42. | |
mature cooperation that our friends enjoy and it should include the | :21:43. | :21:45. | |
fields of science and research which are vital for our country's | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
prosperity, security and well-being. We are determined to ensure that | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
people and businesses have stability and certainty in the period leading | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
up to our departure from the EU and we use the opportunities that | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
departure represents to reinforce our priorities as United Kingdom. | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
Britain is not just a European leader in the field of European | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
research but a global leader and we will be doing all we can to ensure | :22:08. | :22:15. | |
we stay that way. The excellence of our research and the attractiveness | :22:16. | :22:18. | |
of the UK as a place to do it are fundamental to our success. As well | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
as a complete life history of Mr Higgs of Higgs boson fame, we have | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
had a number of bits from my honourable friends in this debate | :22:26. | :22:31. | |
for a medical school and life sciences Centre and a world Heritage | :22:32. | :22:37. | |
site and also the honourable member requesting extra funding for | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
Northern Ireland. I am not in a position to play Santa Claus from | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
the dispatch box but I can assure them that their pleas will have been | :22:45. | :22:47. | |
aired and speaking personally I hope they get all the presents that they | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
wish for. May I take this opportunity to thank the honourable | :22:52. | :23:01. | |
members on all sides for their contributions and wish everyone a | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
Merry Christmas. The question is this house has considered exiting | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
the EU in science and research. As many of the opinion, say I. The eyes | :23:13. | :23:20. | |
have it. With the leave of the house we will take motion 's number two to | :23:21. | :23:31. | |
six together. The question is motion 's number two to six on the order | :23:32. | :23:42. | |
paper. I think the ayes have it. In order. We come now to the | :23:43. | :23:48. | |
adjournment. The whip to move. I beg to move that this house do now | :23:49. | :23:54. | |
adjourned. The question is that this house do now adjourned. Judith | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
Collins. Thank you for granting me this important debate. Ten years ago | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
the Bradford Bulls were the dominant force in rugby league, not just here | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
in the UK but in the world. In 20 years of super league Bradford have | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
been champions four times, jointly holding the record for most titles. | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
They won the league twice prior to the creation of the super league and | :24:19. | :24:21. | |
have been runners-up in the top flight five times. The challenge cup | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
is being brought back to Bradford five times from the clubs 11 | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
appearances in the prestigious tournament 's final. Bradford has | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
won the World Cup challenge by the European champions take on the | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
champions of Australia a total of three times, I get Jonny holding the | :24:42. | :24:43. | |
record for the club with the most wins in the competition. They were | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
also the first team to ever win a domestic treble in 2003. Prior to | :24:50. | :24:57. | |
Super League the club was a founding member of the Rugby football league | :24:58. | :25:05. | |
in 1895. Their stadium is in my Bradford South constituency and it | :25:06. | :25:08. | |
has been the home of the club since 1934. When Bradford moved there it | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
was the biggest stadium in the country outside Wembley and it | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
remains to this day the country's largest rugby league club ground. In | :25:18. | :25:23. | |
fact it holds the record for rugby league attendance. In 1954 102,569 | :25:24. | :25:30. | |
spectators watched Warrington beat Halifax in the challenge club cup | :25:31. | :25:39. | |
final replay. The success of the Bradford Bulls extends beyond its | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
field of play, its connection with the development of rugby at the | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
grassroots and in the community is noteworthy. Bradford 's community | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
work is outstanding. Its foundation received the much coveted foundation | :25:53. | :25:55. | |
of the year award this year and it has worked with more than 30,000 | :25:56. | :26:04. | |
people in 2016 alone. It runs 15 separate community projects | :26:05. | :26:06. | |
including coaching in local primary and secondary schools. It has had | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
one of the most successful projects that has been delivered with the | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
Rugby football league and Sky Television Innova... I beg to move | :26:18. | :26:28. | |
that this house do now adjourned. Judith Cummins. | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
Is the Bulls are responsible for some amazing work. Participation in | :26:35. | :26:43. | |
rugby league has increased by more than 50% in Bradford this year and | :26:44. | :26:46. | |
the number of women getting involved is increasing. 5% of all registered | :26:47. | :26:53. | |
participation in rugby league in the country is in Bradford. This has | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
increased by roughly 1% every year for the last three years. Aside from | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
the Bulls there are 15 rugby league clubs in a five mile radius Bradford | :27:05. | :27:10. | |
City centre. The Bulls' legacy on the field and their work off it, the | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
strong contribution in developing rugby league and working in the | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
community shows how important and invaluable Bradford is to rugby | :27:20. | :27:20. | |
league. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I join my | :27:21. | :27:31. | |
friend, my honourable friend also in paying tribute to some of the | :27:32. | :27:37. | |
fantastic wins Bradford Bulls have had over many years now. Does she | :27:38. | :27:44. | |
further agree with me that in a place like Bradford, with its high | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
levels of deprivation, we need to do more to encourage young people and | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
women to participate in sport, not less? Thank you, I agree with my | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
honourable friend from Bradford East on that point. Today, however, the | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
Bulls are a shadow of their former selves. Whereas the club and its | :28:05. | :28:11. | |
legacy are on the brink of being lost for ever. The Bradford Bulls | :28:12. | :28:14. | |
entered administration last month for the third time since 2012. This | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
was devastating news for my constituency. The Bulls are a highly | :28:20. | :28:29. | |
respected institution and in my constituency, as a proactive member | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
of the local community. The impact was felt not just by the thousands | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
of loyal fans but equally by the City of Bradford and the wider | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
region. It is also a major blow to the rugby league family. In spite of | :28:45. | :28:47. | |
their relegation to the Championship, caused by a points | :28:48. | :28:54. | |
deduction from previous administration, Bradford has | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
continued attracting big crowds. The club has been responsible for just | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
over a quarter of the total of combined attendances in the | :29:02. | :29:03. | |
Championship for the last two regular seasons. The golden era of | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
Bradford Bulls may have passed for now but the Bulls return an enormous | :29:08. | :29:14. | |
presence in the world of rugby league. That presence cannot and | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
must not be lost. The Bradford Bulls need a solid foundation from which | :29:19. | :29:24. | |
the club can be built, securing its future for generations to come, for | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
the good of its fans, players and staff, for the good of the City and | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
for the good of the sport. Rescued with a future in the league and a | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
chance to rebuild, the Bulls could recover their past glory and | :29:39. | :29:40. | |
continue being a positive force for Bradford and rugby league. It seems | :29:41. | :29:46. | |
to me that the Rugby Football League, Bradford Council and myself | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
are on the same page when it comes to the future of the Bulls. We agree | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
that rugby league has to be at the centre of any deal that brings Bulls | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
out of administration and there is a lot of work to insure that happens | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
and that the club survives. I've met the administrators and note how much | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
work they are doing among many others. But my worry is that this | :30:08. | :30:14. | |
site and its stadium, the Wembley of the North, is the focus of many | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
potential suitors. I am worried that rugby is of little to no interest | :30:20. | :30:22. | |
and at best nothing more than a fleeting interest to some of those | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
interested in taking the reins at the Bulls. Not all, but some. There | :30:27. | :30:34. | |
is no doubt that the sight of Odsal has development potential which must | :30:35. | :30:37. | |
be realised but rugby league must be at the heart of that and I hope it | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
will be. The future does not have to be bleak. Bradford should expect | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
top-level rugby league to be played in our City. Bradford is rugby | :30:46. | :30:55. | |
league's Fat land. It has boundless potential -- rugby league's | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
heartland. Soon Bradford will be home to a new rugby league Museum | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
and that is in the pipeline, which I welcome. Bradford Council and the | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
Rugby Football League both have a major interest in the site at Odsal, | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
the Council owns a great deal of the land around and near to it. How | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
exciting would that unique partnership be for the owner of the | :31:19. | :31:21. | |
rugby club at the heart of rugby league country? Working together the | :31:22. | :31:27. | |
Bulls could be at the centre of an exciting new regeneration of an | :31:28. | :31:30. | |
historic and important Rugby Club. There is potential for far more. | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
This is where I hope the Minister will take particular note. Odsal is | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
the best located rugby ground in the country. It is the biggest, the best | :31:41. | :31:46. | |
connected and the most accessible. And it is, as I said a moment ago, | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
at the heart of rugby league's homeland. This is the Northern | :31:51. | :31:56. | |
powerhouse of sport, right here. Bradford can claim to be the | :31:57. | :31:59. | |
national powerhouse of rugby league, I have no doubt of that but the | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
dream of what the Bulls and Odsal could become is what the northern | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
powerhouse is all about. All it takes is the right owner, a brave | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
and forward looking Council, the expertise and drive of eight | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
committed RFL, and the boldness to invest. Mr Speaker, you know as well | :32:18. | :32:24. | |
as I that rugby is a bold sport, not for the faint-hearted. But when push | :32:25. | :32:30. | |
comes to shove, those with a role in this affair, those charged with | :32:31. | :32:33. | |
safeguarding and developing the future of the club and the sport, | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
must not shy away from the difficult challenges that are now apparent. I | :32:38. | :32:44. | |
can't fail to mention how we have got here and the broader context of | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
sport today. There is a great deal of work to do, not just by rugby but | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
the cross sport to tackle the profiteers who seek to plunder clubs | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
and strip them of their essence. Be they Rugby Club is, or football | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
clubs, there is a serious issue with ownership in sport and with some of | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
the people who take on the clubs, and this, Mr Speaker, is another | :33:11. | :33:13. | |
point where I trust the Minister will pay particular attention. How | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
has this been allowed to happen to the Bradford Bulls three times in | :33:18. | :33:23. | |
five years? What is wrong in today's sporting culture that means that the | :33:24. | :33:33. | |
Mark White of the law not successfully protect our sporting | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
institutions? As we see elsewhere in sport, the fit and proper person, | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
although in theory is a strong safeguard, in practice it does all | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
too often not actually deliver what it should. The RFL's rules are | :33:48. | :33:55. | |
designed to do two things, prohibit people who have or could have an | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
adverse impact on the game and prohibit any club from controlling | :34:00. | :34:03. | |
or influencing another club. And secondly and perhaps more | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
importantly, to protect the long-term health and high ability of | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
our clubs. We are some distance from finding out why the Bradford Bulls | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
have ended up in this position again -- the viability of our clubs. Part | :34:19. | :34:27. | |
of the -- are the foot and proper person rules too narrow? -- fit and | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
proper person. Do they protect the best interests of the club's, who | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
are always the first and most damaged. Are the roles of robust | :34:37. | :34:42. | |
enough? Sadly I fear they are not. -- the rules. I hope that the | :34:43. | :34:48. | |
Minister can offer assurances today about the future of humanity clubs | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
such as the Bradford Bulls. Assurances specifically that grounds | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
will be protected from poverty speculators, ensuring that the sport | :34:58. | :35:00. | |
itself is at the centre of any plans rather than the site it sits on -- | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
property speculators. That the ownership of clubs will be | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
scrutinised to ensure who is a fit and proper person. I would | :35:10. | :35:13. | |
appreciate the Minister's thoughts as to how the Department can help to | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
ensure that this situation doesn't happen again to the Bradford Bulls. | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
How can the Minister ensure that the future of rugby league is protected, | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
not just in Bradford but across the country? Lastly will the Minister | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
support my call for a select committee hearing into the ownership | :35:31. | :35:36. | |
of sports clubs? This would go beyond the Bradford Bulls and rugby | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
league, and look at the ownership of sports clubs more generally. The | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
ownership of the assets of a community sports club is crucially | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
important, setting the direction for the club, having owners who have a | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
genuine interest in the club is vital. The assets of a club such as | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
its name, colours, fads and home should not be tampered with without | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
the consent of its most powerful stakeholders -- badge. In closing | :36:03. | :36:09. | |
can I simply say this, rugby league is a sport that has never lost | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
contact and touch with its roots. Rugby league is and always has been | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
a sport of working men and women on the pitch and on the terraces. Rugby | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
league, led by clubs such as the Bradford Bulls, is a sport that is | :36:26. | :36:28. | |
strengthening itself at the grassroots and in the community. | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
Rugby league deserves better than what has happened to the Bradford | :36:33. | :36:38. | |
Bulls. Bradford, the fans, the people of my constituency deserve | :36:39. | :36:40. | |
better than what has happened to the Bradford Bulls. I hope that the | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
Minister will commit to helping me understand how things went wrong so | :36:45. | :36:52. | |
many times. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I called the Minister for sport, | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
Tracey Crouch, to respond. Thank you, I would like to thank the | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
member for Bradford South for calling this debate on the future of | :37:01. | :37:05. | |
Bradford Bulls and rugby league. Despite being a soft Southerner I am | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
a huge rugby league fan and one of my favourite players is Jamie | :37:10. | :37:11. | |
Peacock who is a legend of Leeds Rhinos and Bradford Bulls. Mr | :37:12. | :37:17. | |
Speaker, it is you in the chair, I'm grateful to say it is you and not | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
your supporting doggy deep -- supporting deputy. Before turning to | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
the specific issues I would like to quickly pay tribute to Mike | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
Stevenson, a rugby league legend who stepped down from the commentary box | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
at the end of last season. His enthusiasm for the game is | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
infectious and armchair rugby league enthusiasts will miss him next | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
season immensely. I was sorry to hear of the Bulls' recent problems | :37:46. | :37:54. | |
and I understand this is a depressing time for the club. Clubs | :37:55. | :37:59. | |
are so important and have such a positive impact at the grassroots, | :38:00. | :38:05. | |
the club's proud heritage dates back to the very formation of the Rugby | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
Football League over 120 years ago. Odsal Stadium is notable for hosting | :38:11. | :38:16. | |
the record rugby league attendance, of 120000 and the club has continued | :38:17. | :38:20. | |
having great success over the years, winning the Challenge Cup five years | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
and -- five times and being the first club to win the domestic | :38:26. | :38:32. | |
trouble in 2003. The foundation was judged foundation of the year at the | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
Kingston press champions award in 2016. The foundation has worked with | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
nearly 34,000 people so far this year, through 15 separate community | :38:42. | :38:44. | |
projects including primary and secondary schools, coaching, playing | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
touch rugby league and activity camps. The Sky tribe project has | :38:50. | :38:56. | |
been very successful, delivered to 100 primary and secondary schools, | :38:57. | :39:06. | |
and community clubs. As both members for Bradford mentioned, the Bradford | :39:07. | :39:09. | |
Bulls women's team reached the women's Grand Final in October, | :39:10. | :39:12. | |
inspiring future generations to get involved. I have no doubt that the | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
sport's profile will continue to grow in Bradford as the build-up to | :39:18. | :39:21. | |
the World Cup which was awarded to England in October following the | :39:22. | :39:28. | |
RFL's bid to host the tournament. I was delighted, as all rugby league | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
fans will be, that the government supported the bid with ?25 million | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
to enhance the tournament. In this context of apparent health in the | :39:40. | :39:42. | |
community, it is more concerning that the Bulls have had to go to | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
administration and for the third time in recent years. The honourable | :39:47. | :39:53. | |
lady alluded to the role of HMRC in Bradford's from rental history and | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
it would be inappropriate to cast verdict on the club's individual | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
circumstances while the administration process is ongoing | :40:02. | :40:04. | |
and against the backdrop of the strict duty of confidential and he | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
set out in legislation. In general terms, HMRC will support businesses | :40:11. | :40:13. | |
suffering from short-term financial difficulties but not those who are | :40:14. | :40:19. | |
insolvent. They do not enforce debts lightly but when they cannot pay, | :40:20. | :40:21. | |
they will take action where appropriate. They would only | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
instigate insolvency after other avenues have been tried and as a | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
means to stop further debt accruing. HMRC monitors actions to make sure | :40:31. | :40:36. | |
that cases are worked on properly by insolvency professionals and support | :40:37. | :40:40. | |
actions that may increase with those two predators, which may include | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
HMRC. On the commencement of insolvency, whether or not HMRC | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
instigate action, it will proceed no differently from any other creditor | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
to finalise their claim. The administrator has a duty to | :40:54. | :41:00. | |
administer and is to get the company and HMRC will monitor to ensure that | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
the creditors interests are being met. In these respects, HMRC will | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
treat rugby Club is no differently to any other company entering | :41:09. | :41:14. | |
administration. -- clubs. The future of Bradford Bulls and the wider | :41:15. | :41:17. | |
sport depends on the ability of those involved to deliver a | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
sustainable business model. The Rugby Football League has a clear | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
responsibility in supporting the sport to do this, ensuring that one | :41:26. | :41:31. | |
such long established club, repeatedly being unable to recover | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
its financial position is not the first indicator of an endemic | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
financial instability in the sport. I will pick up the specific issues | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
that the lady raises regarding the owner and director's test in the New | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
Year but in the meantime I'm sure she will be aware that work within | :41:49. | :41:55. | |
the round ball football leagues has sufficiently reduced the | :41:56. | :41:58. | |
insolvencies of clubs with the strengthening of owners and | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
directors tests, and with the financial regulations to which clubs | :42:03. | :42:05. | |
must comply to remain part of the domestic competition. In this | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
respect much progress has been made in the sport of football, especially | :42:11. | :42:11. | |
the lower leagues. The financial instability which many | :42:12. | :42:22. | |
football clubs historically suffered from is not something we should let | :42:23. | :42:25. | |
creep back into any sport and the Rugby league could learn lessons | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
from this. Potential points deductions in the new season is | :42:31. | :42:33. | |
obviously a cue factor in recent clearing the future ownership of the | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
club and I would earn the RFL to continue to work closely with the | :42:39. | :42:41. | |
appointed administrator to ensure the future of the club in this | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
respect. The ongoing well-being of clubs like the Bradford Bulls and | :42:47. | :42:49. | |
healthy domestic leagues are of great importance to a thriving | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
sports sector and I am very clear that financial stability is just one | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
facet of how the sector must continue to develop. It is important | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
that sports clubs have good governance in place to sustain and | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
support the financial viability so there will be a requirement in all | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
bodies in receipt of public funding, including the RFL, to agree to a new | :43:12. | :43:14. | |
code for sports governance and it will come into force in the next | :43:15. | :43:20. | |
funding cycle in April 20 17. Organisations will be required to | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
have strong leadership in place with the right checks and balances to | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
minimise the likelihood of financial integrity issues arising. The | :43:29. | :43:34. | |
honourable lady reflected on the importance of protecting facilities | :43:35. | :43:36. | |
are sporting contribution to the local area. I will encourage | :43:37. | :43:39. | |
communities to consider the provisions within the localism act | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
which allow local groups to nominate Stadium the area as valuable assets | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
and to ask their local authority to place them on the register as an | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
asset of community value. By demonstrating social value | :43:54. | :43:56. | |
communities can be given a right to buy and preserve the value should | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
the site be put up for sale. Bradford Bulls are a positive force | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
in the local community and I have no doubt that their prompt | :44:06. | :44:08. | |
reinstatement to the Rugby football league would be a wonderful boost to | :44:09. | :44:12. | |
the area and the sport more widely. This reinstatement remains at the | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
discretion of the RFL and remains dependent on the new owners in place | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
but I understand that there are interested parties engaging with the | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
appointed administrator. I hope that this can deliver an exciting new | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
phase for Bradford Bulls and I wish the club the very best in the | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
future. Order. As many as are of that opinion say aye, on the | :44:35. | :44:41. | |
contrary, no. The question is that the house do adjourned. The ayes | :44:42. | :44:43. | |
have it. Order, order. These days there is no shortage of | :44:44. | :45:58. | |
news from Westminster, on television, online | :45:59. | :45:59. |