Browse content similar to 03/02/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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So, again, in this situation such as that, yes that might happen, but not | :29:14. | :29:22. | |
actually driven by the people in the locality who want the item, that you | :29:23. | :29:28. | |
are asking for, if you see what I mean. What you have got is somebody | :29:29. | :29:35. | |
else setting the rules. Bringing local accountability, giving people | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
within councils into the authority is the ability to set those rates | :29:42. | :29:44. | |
then click that revenue is really something that I would welcome. At | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
the moment, the ability to do that is a long winded process of two | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
years for you how to apply for various changes in legislation and | :29:55. | :30:00. | |
so on. Take Bury St Edmunds. I had 550 long-stay car park uses last | :30:01. | :30:08. | |
year and 1.38 7 million short stay. This is a town of 40,000. We have | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
problems in the medieval grade. I was really pleased to see the master | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
plan come out this week in which it was spoken that we would have a | :30:19. | :30:29. | |
policy whereby we took varying procedures into account in order to | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
stop the off-street parking that blight so many people's lives, | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
particularly in the medieval quarter of the time. It must be that we | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
provide solutions in this place and we give local councils the ability | :30:44. | :30:50. | |
to set the right solution. This report encourages a blend of | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
pedestrian first recommendations in order to restore and keep the | :30:56. | :31:00. | |
medieval grade for pedestrians, tourists, shoppers and residents. | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
The small size of our grid, which is not only beautiful but historic, | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
needs attention in order to make sure that parking does not blight | :31:10. | :31:15. | |
it. I agree with you, we have a vibrant economic environment, people | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
need to park and work, and we have, luckily, a wonderful tourist | :31:21. | :31:26. | |
attraction in the town and that draws people to it. That is | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
juxtaposed against the market towns that very much need the flexibility | :31:31. | :31:37. | |
of doing it. What concerns with this amendment is that we are using our | :31:38. | :31:46. | |
sledgehammer to crack a nut -- crack a nut. My honourable friend pointed | :31:47. | :31:54. | |
out, it does seem to be an amendment that does what it does within the | :31:55. | :32:02. | |
body of the bill. I think the honourable lady for giving away. | :32:03. | :32:09. | |
There are provisions for local authorities to increase parking | :32:10. | :32:22. | |
charges. What all this does is to restrict this bill to be reducing | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
prices, there would still be powerless to increase car park | :32:28. | :32:35. | |
charges, that would still be there. Fine, but that still pictures back | :32:36. | :32:39. | |
to the point made earlier that isn't that already contained within the | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
body of the bill, so aren't we adding a little bit of jam to what | :32:44. | :32:46. | |
is already in the cake. Mr Speaker, I am grateful for you | :32:47. | :33:01. | |
calling me at what has been a debate. I congratulate my honourable | :33:02. | :33:08. | |
friend for bringing this to the house. I hope that I can convince | :33:09. | :33:17. | |
him and my honourable friends that he will not be... I do hope that I | :33:18. | :33:26. | |
can do that. I have to tell the house and the honourable member for | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
Torbay that when the committee met on Wednesday, there were no | :33:32. | :33:40. | |
amendments. The bill was reported to the house unamended, so this is a | :33:41. | :33:47. | |
somewhat late entry in the race. And was not a member of the bill | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
committee so could not move the bill to committee stage so the | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
opportunity to raise this ad report stage, just to clarify that. I feel | :33:57. | :34:03. | |
I am in error because I should have clearly as my honourable friend to | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
join the committee. I think he would have made it a major contribution. | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
One of the privileges of having a private member's bill is that one | :34:15. | :34:20. | |
does have some influence on the membership of the committee and it | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
is good to see my honourable friend who served on the committee and say | :34:26. | :34:32. | |
that the committee examined with some care the bill. Mr Speaker, when | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
I spoke at the end of the second reading debate in November, I said | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
that I could not in all honestly say that this modest to clause bill | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
would improve the quality of life in every city and town in this country. | :34:49. | :34:54. | |
I also said that I am grateful for the government supports and I am | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
pleased to see my honourable friend, the member for Nuneaton in his place | :35:00. | :35:12. | |
today. I also see the opposition spokesman in his place on the front | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
bench and as he will know his party were supportive of this measure in | :35:17. | :35:22. | |
committee. I hope that we can continue to have his support today. | :35:23. | :35:34. | |
This bill is very simple. My honourable friend the member for | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
Christchurch, who is not known as a great friend of private member's | :35:40. | :35:46. | |
legislation, whispered in my year one day, being a very educated man | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
and a classical scholar perhaps, said it was her day minimus spill | :35:51. | :35:57. | |
that I interpreted had very little in it. That was the point of this. I | :35:58. | :36:07. | |
was number five on the list. Having decided to run with this issue, it | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
had to be as simple bill that appeals to all sides of the house. | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
And not something that was going to attract controversy and encourage | :36:17. | :36:23. | |
colleagues to speak for perhaps a long time on the bill and impede | :36:24. | :36:35. | |
progress. . I described this as a Santa Claus bill as we were in the | :36:36. | :36:42. | |
run-up to Christmas, because the first and perhaps most important | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
provision of this bill is that it allows councils to reduce parking | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
charges about giving a 21 day notice in the local newspaper or in the | :36:52. | :36:57. | |
media. As I will develop this point in my speech, I think this is | :36:58. | :37:05. | |
increasingly a really important for local councils to have flexibility | :37:06. | :37:07. | |
and I will explain why in a moment. It doesn't actually affect the | :37:08. | :37:39. | |
charges themselves. I was somewhat stunned when I went into the shop in | :37:40. | :37:47. | |
the house to see Santa Christmas holding the Santa act as a Christmas | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
decoration for the tree. Clearly, I have been able to inspire somebody | :37:54. | :38:00. | |
to produce this Christmas decoration. I can issued you Mr | :38:01. | :38:06. | |
Speaker, being a slightly superstitious member, I would not | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
conceive of putting that on the tree until it had been passed as an | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
actor. Whether and to what extent the honourable gentleman indulges in | :38:16. | :38:23. | |
retail therapy, and what assessment he has made of the aesthetic | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
measures in the shopper window as a matter I think of consuming almost | :38:30. | :38:35. | |
intoxicating interest to members of the house. I question if it is | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
altogether relevant to the subject matter which is supposed to be under | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
discussion. I feel sure he will have a response. | :38:45. | :38:51. | |
I am flattered that you should bring me back to this point and asked me | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
to explain myself. I crave your indulgence because they did in error | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
produce the Christmas decoration and was rightly called to order because | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
we cannot use devices enable speeches. I am wary of your own | :39:06. | :39:14. | |
determination to maintain procedures so I did not venture to do that | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
today. The point I'm trying to make, Mr Speaker, is that this bill came | :39:21. | :39:28. | |
about as the Santa Claus bill, is something that brings about a lot of | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
and can be used particularly in the run-up to run-up to Christmas to | :39:34. | :39:39. | |
help people in the shopping, whereas previously the councils would be not | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
able to act quickly to respond to situations. I will deliver that | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
point any more. I will move on to say that my own local council, in | :39:49. | :39:57. | |
Hinckley, just across the board from my honourable friend, has many car | :39:58. | :40:05. | |
parks. It will certainly have an impact on the way that Hinckley and | :40:06. | :40:08. | |
Bosworth Borough Council implements parking in the future. Hinckley has | :40:09. | :40:19. | |
been very successful as a town centre, most recently being a | :40:20. | :40:22. | |
finalist in the Great British High Street competition. And | :40:23. | :40:32. | |
cost-effective parking for a time they can achieve that success. He is | :40:33. | :40:40. | |
right to talk about the success of times. Would he agree that is why it | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
is so important that we are clear that this bill is about varying | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
charges down, not by varying the map? I am glad my honourable friend | :40:51. | :40:57. | |
has intervened. He represents a beautiful seaside town, Torbay. In | :40:58. | :41:04. | |
fact, I knew his Conservative predecessor years ago who was also | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
passionately concerned about the Tyne. He was known as spy 13 because | :41:09. | :41:16. | |
of his other job, which was writing spy novels and I wish him well if he | :41:17. | :41:24. | |
is tuning into this debate. He is doing the right thing for his | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
constituency, may I say to my honourable friend, in Torbay where | :41:29. | :41:30. | |
parking is clearly going to be critical. I can assure him that B | :41:31. | :41:38. | |
looks a clause this bill is about enabling councils to reduced | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
charges. In the future they would have to go to the expense of | :41:42. | :41:47. | |
reducing the charges by publishing the notice in local newspapers. With | :41:48. | :41:56. | |
the honourable friend give way? Thank you. Isn't that come in a | :41:57. | :42:07. | |
nutshell, we really don't need to press this moment because it is that | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
flexibility, the fact that in the market they can charge a pine for | :42:12. | :42:15. | |
two hours, in Bury St Edmunds the produce the fees on a Tuesday | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
afternoon. Local solutions to local issues to stimulate the High Street. | :42:21. | :42:30. | |
I am grateful to my honourable friend. But I think for comparison, | :42:31. | :42:44. | |
I would just make clear what these two clauses do. The first clause | :42:45. | :42:46. | |
provides for a path of government to provides for a path of government to | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
make regulations that simplify the procedure to be followed for | :42:51. | :42:53. | |
lowering parking charges. At present, councils must give 24 days | :42:54. | :42:59. | |
per litigation and put signage in the car park if they want to lower | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
their charges. The private sector, on the other hand, can take a | :43:04. | :43:06. | |
business decision to lower without going through this process. To give | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
councils flexibility to reduce their charges, this clause would allow my | :43:13. | :43:18. | |
honourable friend to simplify this requirement putting local | :43:19. | :43:20. | |
authorities on an even footing with the private sector. So my honourable | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
friend for Torbay has not picked up on this point, but he might like to, | :43:25. | :43:30. | |
which is the fact that this gives councils flexibility to reduce their | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
charges and puts them on an even footing with the private sector. I | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
am sure my honourable friend may have spoken about this, had he | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
thought about it. He might want to come back to it on the fact that | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
this will put things on an even footing with the private sector. | :43:48. | :43:58. | |
Accept the valid points he makes. A private sector operator can change | :43:59. | :44:01. | |
the signs overnight if they wish to change the prices in a car park, | :44:02. | :44:04. | |
where as a council has to go through a very long procedure. But would he | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
agree with me that councils are meant to be bodies charged with | :44:10. | :44:12. | |
delivering the public good in an area rather than just a company that | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
is looking to make as much money as it can offer the asset it owns? I | :44:17. | :44:24. | |
honourable friend is hopefully leading me to an area I am going to | :44:25. | :44:27. | |
talk about, which is the impact of pricing on car parking charges | :44:28. | :44:33. | |
generally. But I would make this further point. It is equally | :44:34. | :44:36. | |
important that councils should consider the effect of increased | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
parking charges on the high street. To that end, the clause makes | :44:41. | :44:43. | |
provision for a consultation requirements of the councils take on | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
the views of local businesses and residents when they are looking to | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
increase parking charges on an existing traffic order. They must | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
already consult on a traffic order. However, it is proportionate to | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
expect them to consult if they are raising charges during the life of | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
the traffic order. So my honourable friend, who has been probing the | :45:05. | :45:14. | |
probing amendment, I said to my four for Torbay, there no fear here that | :45:15. | :45:21. | |
this bill is going to increase parking charges. It cannot do that. | :45:22. | :45:28. | |
I would resist my honourable friend the minister's potential to spring | :45:29. | :45:30. | |
to the dispatch box, because I know he will make a speech later. He is | :45:31. | :45:36. | |
nodding his head to reassure me that I haven't put anything in this bill | :45:37. | :45:40. | |
which will allow local authorities to increase charges, but simply | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
saying that they need to ask people before they contemplate such a | :45:45. | :45:51. | |
measure. Am grateful to my honourable friend for giving way. | :45:52. | :45:58. | |
His seat of Bosworth, the A5 is the link through to Aldridge-Brownhills | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
and onto Nuneaton. So three of us have something in common. But on the | :46:04. | :46:10. | |
point about consultation, would he agree that as a resident of one of | :46:11. | :46:15. | |
the -- one of the frustrating things is when you turn up in a town centre | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
and you find that car parking charges have gone up and you had no | :46:20. | :46:26. | |
idea about it. That is why consultation is important. When you | :46:27. | :46:29. | |
open your purse and find you haven't got the right coins to put in the | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
machine... I welcome the fact that this bill seeks to emphasise | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
consulting and listening to the views of residents. My honourable | :46:40. | :46:46. | |
friend knows how fast our area is developing. There is this huge | :46:47. | :46:52. | |
business park being developed in my constituency and dust on the border | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
of my honourable friend's constituency. My honourable friend | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
and I have been working over the years to improve the A5 and there | :47:02. | :47:05. | |
are some major improvements in the offing. It is of course a national | :47:06. | :47:13. | |
road and an important relief road when there are problems on the M6 | :47:14. | :47:18. | |
and other roads. So I think we will see an improvement in traffic | :47:19. | :47:21. | |
movements generally. And if you are going to have an improvement in | :47:22. | :47:24. | |
traffic movements, you need an improvement in how you manage the | :47:25. | :47:29. | |
people who are moving around. So when the road traffic act was put | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
into place, I don't think anybody thought there would be the | :47:35. | :47:37. | |
fluctuations in patterns of shopping that we have now. We are in a new | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
landscape. The world has speeded up. It is a completely different world | :47:42. | :47:47. | |
since the advent of mobile phones and/or the electronic media. So I | :47:48. | :47:57. | |
think these two clauses together offer an opportunity to take into | :47:58. | :48:00. | |
account the views of local communities while giving councils | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
the flexibility to decrease parking charges and better support the goal | :48:05. | :48:13. | |
of thriving town centres. Mr Speaker, I have also received | :48:14. | :48:17. | |
support from other organisations, which is worth mentioning. There is | :48:18. | :48:29. | |
an organisation which is very concerned with parking. I say to my | :48:30. | :48:36. | |
honourable friends, we should be aware that the value of UK retail | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
sales was 339,000,000,020 15, providing jobs for 3.3 million | :48:42. | :48:51. | |
employees by 2017 in approximately 287,000 outlets. However, | :48:52. | :48:53. | |
increasingly, the high street has been exposed to intense competition, | :48:54. | :48:57. | |
including an increased rise in online shopping and out-of-town | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
retailing, due to the ease with which consumers can use these | :49:03. | :49:08. | |
options. I think this point that they raised about online shopping is | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
important. We saw all the stories in the press about the impact on major | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
stores of online shopping and how difficult it is for them to fight | :49:18. | :49:27. | |
back. In the Midlands, we have these huge warehouses and distribution | :49:28. | :49:34. | |
centres. We are particularly aware where the M1 and to join. This is | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
the ideal place in the middle of England. I represent geographical | :49:39. | :49:44. | |
middle of England. It is in my constituency. So that is important. | :49:45. | :49:57. | |
There is another point, the parking charges barrier to regeneration, | :49:58. | :50:00. | |
which colleagues might want to expand on. I give way. Just on the | :50:01. | :50:09. | |
point my honourable friend mentioned about online retailing, one of the | :50:10. | :50:13. | |
things that was highlighted in a report in 2011 highlighted the role | :50:14. | :50:21. | |
of the small towns, who were charging way above the average in | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
the UK, thus putting them at a disadvantage. Would my honourable | :50:26. | :50:32. | |
friend agree that it is important that town councils have the | :50:33. | :50:37. | |
flexibility to be able to react quickly in line with the threat from | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
online retail? I do agree with that, and I am about to come to the impact | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
of the bill will have across the country and how it will impact with | :50:47. | :50:53. | |
some other figures. But may I indulge first by just referring him | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
to the porters review, which clearly showed that car parking charges were | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
the biggest barrier to the regeneration of our town centres. It | :51:02. | :51:08. | |
is perhaps no surprise, considering that the average hourly parking | :51:09. | :51:16. | |
which in London is ?8.44, 18% more than the minimum wage. It is a | :51:17. | :51:27. | |
staggering figure. The Rethinking parking on the high street report | :51:28. | :51:29. | |
clearly states that footfall does reflect town centre performance, | :51:30. | :51:34. | |
with those towns that have higher footfall generating a high level of | :51:35. | :51:39. | |
spend, meaning that the high street will remain under threat from | :51:40. | :51:42. | |
out-of-town retail facilities and online, where lack of parking or | :51:43. | :51:54. | |
extensive parking is not an issue. Would my honourable friend agree, | :51:55. | :51:57. | |
given that he has referred to London as having expensive parking charges, | :51:58. | :52:01. | |
but still having a thriving business centre around places like Oxford | :52:02. | :52:05. | |
Street, would he agree that London operates very differently in terms | :52:06. | :52:09. | |
of an economy than the rest of the country and that anything like that | :52:10. | :52:12. | |
in any other town would have devastated the shopping centres and | :52:13. | :52:19. | |
high-street businesses? I do accept that London is a special case and we | :52:20. | :52:22. | |
don't represent London. But I thought it was instructive to make | :52:23. | :52:29. | |
the point that these charges are so high here. What is also important, | :52:30. | :52:37. | |
given my honourable friend's remarks just now, is to look at how this | :52:38. | :52:46. | |
provision will operate in practice. For greater accuracy, I asked the | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
Commons library to provide some figures for me of the scale of | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
natural settlements known as build-up areas to most of us in the | :52:56. | :53:02. | |
country. We actually have, according to the 2011 census, 56 cities, of a | :53:03. | :53:16. | |
population of 5000 or more and 1590 villages with a population of | :53:17. | :53:24. | |
between one and 5000. Each of the settlements could be affected by the | :53:25. | :53:31. | |
provisions of this bill. Pride is a dangerous word in parliamentary | :53:32. | :53:37. | |
life. I think we can get to proud sometimes, but am delighted to bring | :53:38. | :53:43. | |
a bill to the House which affects not just a particular constituency | :53:44. | :53:48. | |
matter, but has a national impact. And this bill will have huge | :53:49. | :53:51. | |
ramifications for business. My honourable friend, the member for | :53:52. | :54:00. | |
Nuneaton, is nodding. On that broader point of business and | :54:01. | :54:07. | |
regeneration, I wonder if maybe my honourable friend will touch on | :54:08. | :54:14. | |
this. Giving councils that ability to have the flexibility to reduce | :54:15. | :54:18. | |
their car parking charges when they deem it necessary, be it for a | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
specific event or whatever, that can play a vital part in regeneration, | :54:23. | :54:27. | |
because whilst they may not be getting the income from the car | :54:28. | :54:30. | |
parking, they don't have the cost associated with advertising for that | :54:31. | :54:35. | |
reduction in car parking, but they could get an extra income through | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
increasing the vibrancy of the high street through their nondomestic | :54:40. | :54:41. | |
rate collection, which goes back into the council. My honourable | :54:42. | :54:48. | |
friend for Aldridge-Brownhills has struck on a rich seam there. I am | :54:49. | :54:55. | |
not personally going to mine it, but no doubt she can come back with me | :54:56. | :55:01. | |
on this. The statistics I have just given, I should for clarity said | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
that those towns and cities and villages are in England. And this | :55:07. | :55:13. | |
bill would affect Wales, but will not be included in Wales. I don't | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
have the statistics for Wales. I wanted him to something that hasn't | :55:19. | :55:23. | |
been mentioned so far, and that is what I call unusual events. | :55:24. | :55:29. | |
Exceptional events. I'm going to cite two exceptional events and | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
suggest that this bill might be useful in those circumstances. I | :55:35. | :55:44. | |
have always been happy to represent the constituency of Bosworth, which | :55:45. | :55:49. | |
is where English history changed on the 22nd of August, 1485, when the | :55:50. | :55:55. | |
last of the Yorkist Plantagenet line, King Richard, died in horrid | :55:56. | :56:06. | |
circumstances, leaving Henry Tudor to be crowned Henry VII. Just before | :56:07. | :56:18. | |
the 2015 election, the mortal remains of Richard had been | :56:19. | :56:23. | |
discovered in a car park in Leicester. Interestingly, he was | :56:24. | :56:36. | |
found, the exact position was under a parking bay with the letter R on | :56:37. | :56:44. | |
it, which turned out to be for Rex, King of England. Just before the | :56:45. | :56:51. | |
2015 general election, Richard's mortal remains were taken back to | :56:52. | :56:58. | |
the Battle of Bosworth Field, where he had died, killed in action over | :56:59. | :56:59. | |
500 years earlier. The question was, just how many | :57:00. | :57:22. | |
people were going to turn up. I was invited, Madam Deputy Speaker, I | :57:23. | :57:28. | |
welcome you to the chair, I was invited to attend the proceedings of | :57:29. | :57:36. | |
Bosworth Field, and also to attend the events are two words in market | :57:37. | :57:40. | |
with a police escort, given the with a police escort, given the | :57:41. | :57:44. | |
narrow lanes, there was no way I could do more than one event, I | :57:45. | :57:50. | |
couldn't do them all. I arrived at the battlefield two hours early | :57:51. | :57:53. | |
because I had no idea how long that was going to take me to get there. | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
We had a marquee that was I think six times the size of this chamber | :57:59. | :58:05. | |
absolutely packed, journalists from all over the world, and the roads | :58:06. | :58:12. | |
were very clogged. It was an incredibly emotional experience to | :58:13. | :58:20. | |
see this often arrive on the field but was and then silence. A very | :58:21. | :58:24. | |
special day was. The point is this, special day was. The point is this, | :58:25. | :58:32. | |
if this gets its third reading today and comes back approved from the | :58:33. | :58:37. | |
other place and becomes law, for councils in a situation like that | :58:38. | :58:41. | |
they could at a stroke want to change the parking regulations on | :58:42. | :58:44. | |
the day, they might be in a situation where they realised the | :58:45. | :58:51. | |
charges are ridiculous and they need to process people quickly. The other | :58:52. | :58:58. | |
events which I wanted to refer to was completely the opposite | :58:59. | :59:02. | |
situation as far as traffic was concerned. That was to the solar | :59:03. | :59:07. | |
eclipse that took place on August the 11th 1999. Would he agree that | :59:08. | :59:17. | |
special events are about the community coming together and | :59:18. | :59:22. | |
bringing a surge of trade and the local authorities wanted to rip | :59:23. | :59:28. | |
people off we could see the effects like happened with the solar eclipse | :59:29. | :59:31. | |
in Cornwall that were people increased prices, people just | :59:32. | :59:37. | |
didn't,. I have a good recollection of this. The first point I would | :59:38. | :59:42. | |
make is that it is not about raising charges, it is about lowering | :59:43. | :59:45. | |
charges and grazing consultation levels. That is the sound bite. That | :59:46. | :59:52. | |
is what this bill is all about and that is why allows my honourable | :59:53. | :59:56. | |
friend to withdraw his amendment. He talks about private car park owners | :59:57. | :00:02. | |
who wanted to ratchet up charges in Cornwall. My honourable friend, the | :00:03. | :00:07. | |
member for Cornwall Southeast who is not here today he has had only dues | :00:08. | :00:12. | |
with car parking, nor has the honourable member for Stevenage he | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
has had his issues and had a successful debate in Westminster | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
Hall the other day, but what happened was so much in the | :00:20. | :00:22. | |
newspapers about the pandemonium that was going to be caused by the | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
huge numbers of people going to Cornwall to watch the eclipse, which | :00:27. | :00:31. | |
would have blocked out the light of the sun totally for about a minute, | :00:32. | :00:38. | |
that there was so much media hype that nobody turned up. The numbers | :00:39. | :00:47. | |
were way down. Quite the reverse happened. It might have been the | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
councils had made provision to reduced charges then suddenly | :00:52. | :00:53. | |
realised there was no need to do it at all. Rather than with a 21 days | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
and have lost revenue, in that situation the opposite would have | :01:00. | :01:08. | |
applied. I will be concluding my remarks soon. I wanted to refer to | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
what the Federation of Small Businesses said to me yesterday. | :01:13. | :01:20. | |
Apart from generously congratulating me on negotiating the narrows of the | :01:21. | :01:26. | |
rivers to get to disappoint the Private Members' Bill, said that | :01:27. | :01:33. | |
they are wholly supportive of the views of the measures in this bill | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
and that it would be an additional tool for government to support local | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
small businesses and ensure that they and their customers can park | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
and that is why it would be very welcome. The room research shows | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
that seven in ten small firms think parking is a priority for the future | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
of independent shops, independent retailers in town centres are the | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
engines which help make the UK's local communities what they are. In | :02:02. | :02:10. | |
the reports, going the extra mile, they find that small businesses are | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
overwhelmingly reliant on roads with nine in ten firms placing high value | :02:15. | :02:22. | |
on the network with so many small businesses relying on the road | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
network, they argue... The final point, they are clear the | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
consultation with businesses before making local authorities increase | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
the cost of parking is what we require. I thank my honourable | :02:41. | :02:52. | |
friend forgiving way. Would he agree with me that this is particularly | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
pertinent inroad communities and small market town for a lot of the | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
trade has to come in from villages and so one? So the accessibility and | :03:01. | :03:07. | |
ability to control prices in a way that facilitates the businesses that | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
we want to survive because there is nothing sadder than a dying High | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
Street, that is what we need to aim for. One is always looking for help | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
in this place and I think my honourable friend has made | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
Michaelson remarks for me. What we are talking about here is a simple | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
to clause bill which has been reported from a committee without | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
amendment that seeks to allow councils to reduced parking charges | :03:35. | :03:41. | |
without consultation, but insists on consultation if they want to | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
increase charges. Before I sit down I would just like to say to my | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
honourable friend the member for Torbay, I think this is a very | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
helpful amendment that he has proposed. He clearly feels | :03:56. | :04:02. | |
passionately about this issue and he is right to come to the chamber and | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
get us to scrutinise this in some detail, but I do hope that I have | :04:07. | :04:13. | |
been able to give him the reassuring study requires and I look to my | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
honourable friend the Minister who has responsibility for this who is | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
sitting on the front bench, to flesh out any point that I have not made | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
and give the government's approval, but that I thank my honourable | :04:29. | :04:38. | |
friend from Torbay. I welcome the opportunity to comment on this | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
amendment and the important points raised by my honourable friends, the | :04:44. | :04:50. | |
member for Torbay. My honourable friends and constituency neighbour, | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
the member for Bosworth, has already set out insignificant detail his | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
views in relation to this amendment and whilst I think my honourable | :05:01. | :05:08. | |
friend for Torbay's intentions are good, as they generally are and | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
generally and the best interests of his constituents, I think my | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
right to speak against the amendment right to speak against the amendment | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
that has been tabled and now I am going to take this opportunity to | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
separate the government's view as why we do not think that the | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
amendment is a good idea and why the amendment should not stand. The bill | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
creates the power to make regulations, to simplify the | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
procedure is local authorities must follow if they want to lower the | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
parking charges for it also introduces a consultation | :05:47. | :05:48. | |
requirement if local authorities want to increase parking charges. | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
Parking provision plays an important role in the line people to access | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
our high streets in town centres. Town centres continue to play a | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
central role in the lives of our communities and parking charges can | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
be an important factor when people choose which town centre they want | :06:09. | :06:15. | |
to visit. Some out-of-town shopping malls provide free parking and | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
councils therefore need to think very carefully about the level and | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
range of parking that is available. Parking charges will no doubt play a | :06:27. | :06:33. | |
very important role in the choice that people make and the government | :06:34. | :06:41. | |
is absolutely committed to promoting our town centres and high streets as | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
thriving places at the heart of our communities. If I may now turn to | :06:46. | :06:53. | |
the issue of consultation for increased charges. I strongly | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
believe that it is right and proper for local authorities to consult the | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
to increase charges. This is not, local communities and town centre | :07:01. | :07:31. | |
and I would like to stress this, and I would like to stress this, | :07:32. | :07:31. | |
asking councils in a very Luke List this is not about the government | :07:32. | :07:32. | |
way to take account the views of way to take account the views | :07:33. | :07:32. | |
local communities before they seek to increase charges. In May and | :07:33. | :07:43. | |
constituency the local District Council has decided not to listen to | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
views of local people, increase Parker and charges and the part -- | :07:47. | :07:56. | |
car parking charges has dropped by ?350,000, which shows why it is so | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
important to consult local people, listen very carefully to what they | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
say because quite often the views of those local people and the views of | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
those business owners are the views of those very people who are going | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
to be using those car parts and depending on those car parts for | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
their livelihoods. I thank the Minister for giving away and it is | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
disappointing to hear that that council does not have the kind of | :08:25. | :08:32. | |
pro-business leadership inhabiting 2008 and 2010. Would he reassured me | :08:33. | :08:35. | |
that under this bill if it goes forward the government would not be | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
bringing it forward in a way that would be making it easier to | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
increase parking charges and this is purely about making it easier to | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
vary downwards, so we don't have consultations if you want to pay | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
less money. I can certainly reassure him that if a council, whether that | :08:55. | :09:02. | |
was in Torbay or whether it was in Nuneaton or elsewhere in the | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
country, did seek to increase the charges following the limitation of | :09:08. | :09:09. | |
this bill they would certainly have to consult with local people before | :09:10. | :09:20. | |
taking that decision. I can reassure my honourable friend for Torbay that | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
the provisions that we have before us today will not be implemented on | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
the day that it receives Royal assent. We want to make sure that we | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
have some balance to this and that the powers created are practical and | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
proportionate, to make sure that these measures work in practice | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
prior to the laying of regulations we will consult with local | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
authorities and the Local Government Association. We will also consult | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
with the British parking Association and other interested organisations | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
to ensure that there import important views are taken into | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
account before the regulations are made. Furthermore, Parliamentary | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
colleagues will have the opportunity to consider any regulations by the | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
normal procedure is for secondary legislation. My department will also | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
undertake a new burdens assessment to establish the administrative | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
affect on local authorities of this duty to consult. We also believe | :10:24. | :10:30. | |
that this is a measure that will strengthen local democracy by giving | :10:31. | :10:37. | |
people and businesses have voice in decisions on car parking charges | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
that impact on the vitality of any particular town centre. On that | :10:44. | :10:51. | |
point, do you think it is the most practical way of local businesses, | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
particularly when you have a business improvement district within | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
a time, Halesowen is going through the process of becoming a business | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
improvement district. Would he agree that is an appropriate forum for | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
local businesses to express their views about parking and charges and | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
its impact in town centres? As ever, my honourable friend for Hill to one | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
makes a very pertinent point. I am glad to hear about the business | :11:18. | :11:24. | |
improvement district that businesses in Halesowen are trying to bring | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
forward. I am also glad to say the businesses in my constituency in | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
Nuneaton are trying to do a very similar thing and bring broader | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
business improvement district. I think that is an excellent vehicle | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
for local businesses to be able to express the view over this type of | :11:43. | :11:44. | |
issue. It will be an excellent vehicle also | :11:45. | :11:54. | |
for the local authority, taking two into account the measures of this | :11:55. | :11:57. | |
bill to use that for an as one of the important consul tees that | :11:58. | :12:07. | |
should be consulted before parking charges are increased within a local | :12:08. | :12:15. | |
authority area. I welcome the news that my honourable friend's | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
department will be consulting on the issue of consultation and seeking | :12:19. | :12:26. | |
views. I understand that that may take time. Is he able to give us end | :12:27. | :12:34. | |
the indication as to the timescale on this bill? Does he think the | :12:35. | :12:44. | |
aspect over car parking charges will be in place before Christmas, given | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
that it has been called the Santa clause Bill? We have heard a great | :12:49. | :12:51. | |
deal about Santa Claus, and I am not sure whether my honourable friend | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
for Portsmouth bought the Santa decoration he came across in the | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
House shop. But perhaps he did, on the basis that once the Santa clause | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
Bill hopefully passes through this House, not wanted to tempt fate, he | :13:07. | :13:09. | |
will be able to put it on his tree next year. He said he didn't want to | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
tempt fate, and hopefully we will not be doing that today, but the | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
honourable lady makes a good point and that would certainly be our | :13:19. | :13:25. | |
intention, to make sure the measures in relation to areas being able to | :13:26. | :13:27. | |
reduce their parking charges can be brought forward to enable the | :13:28. | :13:41. | |
situation she mentions. Whilst I appreciate that there has been much | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
talk in today's Bill around car parking, would my four agree that | :13:47. | :13:53. | |
one of the biggest areas of contention for residents and local | :13:54. | :13:55. | |
people without question with this bill will help is around our local | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
hospitals, where we have huge problems around parking and the | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
facility to allow a consultation with those local people will make | :14:05. | :14:11. | |
sure we get some good results and good shortages put in place? I think | :14:12. | :14:18. | |
that consultation is always important, and the two issues are | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
interlinked in terms of the fact that many of the hospitals he | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
mentions are situated in and around town centres, which can cause all | :14:28. | :14:34. | |
sorts of pressures. In relation to a local authority's position, it can | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
also have a beneficial effect if they are able to use the measures | :14:41. | :14:47. | |
within this bill in a positive way that would seek to increase the | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
number of people using their car parks if they decide to lower | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
charges, which would then take pressure off other car parks. It is | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
also an important point that there are many town centres where there | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
are also many residents living around those town centre areas | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
where, if the parking charges are not proportionate to the situation, | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
people will often seek to park in the streets around a town centre and | :15:16. | :15:21. | |
avoid using the car parks because it is easy to walk into the town | :15:22. | :15:28. | |
centre, exacerbating the problems for people who live in these areas | :15:29. | :15:35. | |
because often, by definition, a town centre is a historic place in a | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
particular area. Generally, the properties around the town centre | :15:41. | :15:48. | |
will usually date back quite a while in history, say, the end of the 19th | :15:49. | :15:55. | |
century, beginning of the 20th century, when nobody had a car. | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
Therefore, those streets were not built for cars and there is a lot of | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
pressure in those streets for parking just amongst the residents | :16:05. | :16:07. | |
themselves. The last thing those residents want is councils that hike | :16:08. | :16:14. | |
parking charges up and could do that without consultation, when it would | :16:15. | :16:21. | |
put more pressure on those streets and the parking arrangements there. | :16:22. | :16:31. | |
So it is an important part of the bill to put in place a situation | :16:32. | :16:41. | |
where councils will consult. Would my honourable friend confirm that | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
the regulations also cover coach parking? There was a situation in | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
one of my market towns, Helmsley, where coach parking charges were | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
increased significantly, which then deterred tourist coaches from coming | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
to that town, which is a renowned market town in a tourist | :17:02. | :17:08. | |
destination. And that reduced the number of coaches coming to the | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
town. We then ran a campaign and the local authority decided to remove | :17:14. | :17:16. | |
those charges, which has helped tremendously in generating and | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
attracting new visitors to the town. I would be interested to hear the | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
minister's thoughts on whether this is covered also. Thank you, Madam | :17:25. | :17:32. | |
Deputy Speaker. I noticed that I have cleared the public gallery! | :17:33. | :17:39. | |
Which is an achievement in itself. As the honourable gentleman says on | :17:40. | :17:41. | |
the opposition front bench, not for the first time! It is always good to | :17:42. | :17:49. | |
be part of the legislative process where the honourable gentleman on | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
the front bench opposite is in his place. In terms of Helmsley, that is | :17:54. | :18:01. | |
an interesting example. They were the winner of the 2015 great British | :18:02. | :18:09. | |
high street competition, a competition that I thought at the | :18:10. | :18:11. | |
time would put paid to my ministerial career, because Helmsley | :18:12. | :18:19. | |
was in the final with Chipping Norton, and Chipping Norton was the | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
constituency of the former Prime Minister David Cameron. And when | :18:25. | :18:31. | |
Helmsley beat Chipping Norton in the final, I thought my life might not | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
be worth living. But I am glad to say that the former Prime Minister | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
did not hold it against me in that sense. But Helmsley is an important | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
example, because it is a place where a significant number of visitors go, | :18:46. | :18:53. | |
and therefore there has to be provision for things like coaches | :18:54. | :19:07. | |
and buses to park in those areas. The parking of buses in a bus | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
station is possibly subject to a different situation. And this is | :19:14. | :19:19. | |
something I will probably have to come back to my honourable friend | :19:20. | :19:27. | |
about. But I would say that in those places, we certainly have a | :19:28. | :19:30. | |
situation where there are many events that happen where local | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
traders may be heartened if the local authority were to use the | :19:36. | :19:37. | |
provisions that come from this bill once it becomes an act and reduce | :19:38. | :19:44. | |
their car parking charges. In conclusion, Madam Deputy Speaker, I | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
would like to say that I believe good communication between local | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
authorities and the public is vital for healthy democracy. This extends | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
to local authorities being clear about the decision-making process. | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
This means the public knowing why those decisions were taken, | :20:05. | :20:07. | |
decisions that affect individuals and their communities, decisions | :20:08. | :20:14. | |
that can have a profound effect on the lives and jobs of many people. I | :20:15. | :20:26. | |
thank the minister and particularly the member in charge, the honourable | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
member for Bosworth, for the comments they made in response to | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
the new clause. As I said, I moved this to get clear what the purpose | :20:34. | :20:40. | |
of this bill is and the procedures that would be created under it in | :20:41. | :20:43. | |
relation to local authorities and what they would be able to do. I | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
accept that it is right that there is a flexibility. The drive of this | :20:47. | :20:53. | |
bill is to make it easier to vary parking charges downwards. | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
Therefore, having heard the extensive reassurances provided by | :20:57. | :20:59. | |
the member in charge, which were particularly persuasive he has | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
succeeded in his goal. And having heard the reassurances from the | :21:04. | :21:06. | |
minister, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Is it the pleasure of | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
the House that new clause one be withdrawn? New clause one by Leif | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
withdrawn. Consideration completed, third reading what they? -- what | :21:18. | :21:29. | |
they? Now? Now. With your leave, I beg to move that this bill be read a | :21:30. | :21:38. | |
third time. If you could just say now... ! David driven it. Thank you, | :21:39. | :21:47. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker. I am so shocked to have got a bill through | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
the proceedings at this House that I forgot the procedure which I know so | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
well at the last moment. Thank you for guiding me correctly. As I beg | :21:58. | :22:07. | |
to move this third reading, I would like to make a couple of brief | :22:08. | :22:14. | |
remarks. It is a special moment for me to bring a bill to counter the | :22:15. | :22:25. | |
third bill in the House of Commons. I had three criteria for a private | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
member's bill. I to be sufficiently uncontroversial to pass through all | :22:30. | :22:32. | |
stages in the two Houses of Parliament, and I have sat through | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
seven parliaments in this house and seen many bills but the dust on a | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
Friday. I did not want to join that club. That is why I have kept it to | :22:43. | :22:53. | |
two clauses. Secondly, I wanted to have a national impact. Some | :22:54. | :22:56. | |
selecting a bill, I didn't want something that was parochial, I | :22:57. | :22:59. | |
wanted something that would make a difference across the country. | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
Thirdly, I wanted something that would improve the lives of our | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
constituents. To use the old-fashioned language, our duty is | :23:08. | :23:14. | |
to improve the condition of the people. That is what they said in | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
the 19th century. The modern translation is that our job is to | :23:20. | :23:30. | |
make people's lives better. So if I am allowed to be called a second | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
time, I might offer a few words of thanks, but at this point I will sit | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
down and say again how delighted I am that colleagues have allowed this | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
bill to third reading. The question is that the bill now be read for the | :23:43. | :23:49. | |
third time. Andy Slaughter. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is a | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
pleasure to be here for the opposition to respond to the | :23:56. | :23:58. | |
honourable gentleman's bill. I wish him success with it, as my | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
honourable friend said at the second reading. It has the support and I am | :24:04. | :24:12. | |
sure it will do as he says and bring pleasure around the country. I would | :24:13. | :24:26. | |
say in response to the bill, check the new burdens money, make sure it | :24:27. | :24:29. | |
is all there at the appropriate time. Having said that, unlike last | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
week, when we spent some five hours looking at different stages of a | :24:36. | :24:42. | |
bill, I would make two short observations. The honourable member | :24:43. | :24:51. | |
for Torbay was making his interesting and somewhat lengthy | :24:52. | :24:53. | |
comment earlier. He said two things I mildly disagree with. One is that | :24:54. | :25:00. | |
local authorities can fill their boots with parking charges and use | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
it for whatever they like. Now, the facility to charge money and other | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
road traffic regulation act was tested in the case of outfield and | :25:10. | :25:16. | |
Barnett, and the conclusion there by the learned judge Mr Justice Lang | :25:17. | :25:22. | |
was that the 1984 act is not fiscal measure does not authorise the local | :25:23. | :25:29. | |
authority to charge for parking in order to rate surplus revenue for | :25:30. | :25:35. | |
other transport purposes, funded by the general fund. Some authorities | :25:36. | :25:44. | |
connected to local traffic matters, I don't think it can simply be used | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
for revenue. Just to help the honourable gentleman and bring a | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
little bit of clarity, I think he's in what he says in terms of on | :25:55. | :26:02. | |
street ticket revenue. But in terms of off-street car parking, there are | :26:03. | :26:07. | |
no current restrictions on how off-street ticket revenue is spent | :26:08. | :26:08. | |
by local authorities. I was interested that the bill does | :26:09. | :26:18. | |
deal with both on street and off-street parking. The other matter | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
that was mentioned by the honourable member for Torbay was that he can't | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
envisage circumstances when he would get letters from people asking for | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
parking charges to go up. That may well be true about council owned car | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
parks and off-street parking, but of course often it is the case of on | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
street parking but this is shared use between residents and those who | :26:44. | :26:52. | |
are nonresident who wish to park the and pay and display. Quite often, | :26:53. | :26:58. | |
charging is for the purposes of regulating the access between | :26:59. | :27:06. | |
residents and visitors and in some cases residents to ask for certain | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
levels of charge. I don't think it goes to the heart. The intention is | :27:12. | :27:18. | |
to give flexibility to local authorities and to encourage them to | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
more boring than raising them. I just make that point because these | :27:24. | :27:30. | |
matters are often fraught for councils. I hope that councils to | :27:31. | :27:36. | |
try to do a decent job in pleasing everybody. If they don't, they tend | :27:37. | :27:42. | |
to get booted out. Having made those pettifogging remarks I am not going | :27:43. | :27:52. | |
to prolong comments. As the responders says, he wants to make | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
people better -- like that of the people around the country. This been | :27:59. | :28:08. | |
the first matter of discussion on the bill for reducing child poverty. | :28:09. | :28:19. | |
If I may have humbly say as someone who has a great deal of child | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
poverty in the constituency which we could get onto that. I am absolutely | :28:24. | :28:36. | |
pleased to be able to contribute to this debate than I would like to | :28:37. | :28:39. | |
thank the honourable member for Bosworth for bringing forward this | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
Private Members' Bill for what is now the third reading. This bill | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
seeks to make provision for the procedure to be followed by local | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
authorities when varying the charges to be paid for off-street parking | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
and parking on designated highways. As it amends provision within the | :28:59. | :29:04. | |
Road traffic act of 1984 in order to convince -- in order to consider the | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
merits of this bill it is necessary to consider the existing powers that | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
local authorities have with regards to parking and hide this bill | :29:13. | :29:15. | |
differs from the existing regulation. Section 41 and 42 of the | :29:16. | :29:24. | |
Road traffic act 1991 awarded new powers to local authorities to vary | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
car parking charges at both designated on street parking places | :29:29. | :29:34. | |
and in the off-street car parks, too. I understand that the | :29:35. | :29:40. | |
discussions on the provision of what would be caught in the 1991 act were | :29:41. | :29:43. | |
fairly limited and that the only debate came at the Lords report | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
stage with the government introduced a new clause on off-street car | :29:47. | :29:54. | |
parks. The then Transport Minister said the amendment applies to the | :29:55. | :30:01. | |
variation of charges and off-street parking places. Local authorities | :30:02. | :30:04. | |
prescribing charges and off-street parking places will in the future be | :30:05. | :30:07. | |
able to very those charges subsequently by the simpler public | :30:08. | :30:14. | |
notice procedure, to be presented by regulations made by the Secretary of | :30:15. | :30:17. | |
State and subject to the negative resolution procedure instead of | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
having to make a new parking order. The powers which were provided to | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
the 1991 act are contained in sections 35 C and 46 a of the Road | :30:28. | :30:35. | |
traffic regulation act of 1984 as amended. The current procedures | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
regarding the ability of local authorities to amend parking charges | :30:41. | :30:43. | |
are stipulated also through regulations 25 of the local | :30:44. | :30:48. | |
authorities traffic orders procedure is in England and Wales, regulation | :30:49. | :30:59. | |
1996, specifically SI 1996/2489. When seeking to either increase or | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
decrease charges, these regulations require the local authorities to do | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
so and to do the following. First of all they have to publish a notice of | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
variation at least once in a newspaper which circulates within | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
the area where the charges are to be opted at least 21 days before the | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
proposed changes are due to come into effect. They also have two... | :31:22. | :31:27. | |
The relevant notice Altima specify the date when it is due to come into | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
force Ulster that must stipulate parking place the notice relates to | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
and must outline the alterations to the charges which would take effect | :31:37. | :31:42. | |
for each parking place. Finally, the local authority must take steps to | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
ensure that copies of the notice are displayed in the affected areas and | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
that these remain in a legible condition until the date when the | :31:52. | :31:56. | |
changes come into effect. Through amending the existing powers of the | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
Secretary of State sections 35 C and 46 a of the Road traffic act 1984, | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
this bill revisits the current regulations and seeks to reduce the | :32:07. | :32:09. | |
bureaucratic burden placed on local authorities who are seeking to | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
reduce the parking charges. Furthermore, this bill allows a new | :32:16. | :32:18. | |
condition that will mean that local authorities will need to consult if | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
they are looking to increase the parking charges under an existing | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
traffic order. The intention behind this bill is fairly clear. It seeks | :32:28. | :32:35. | |
to give councils more flexibility to innovate with regards to the parking | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
strategies and to make it easier for them to reduce car parking charges | :32:41. | :32:45. | |
in order to react to particular circumstances or events, many of | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
which we have already heard on the floor of the house today. As the | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
honourable member for Bosworth has rightly pointed out, parking | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
policies have the potential to enhance the economic viability of | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
our high streets and that benefits to town centres and communities | :33:04. | :33:05. | |
whose strike the correct talents when it comes to parking charges can | :33:06. | :33:11. | |
be considerable. Before entering this House, I worked in the retail | :33:12. | :33:19. | |
industry for 30 years, during which time I witnessed first-hand the | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
impact that parking strategies can have on the High Street. The | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
independent retailers and traders and small businesses which are the | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
lifeblood of our town centres rely on a balanced parking policy, which | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
promotes the regular turnover of parking spaces. It also must manage | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
traffic flows successfully and it must ensure that the level of | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
charges are reasonable and proportionate in relation to the | :33:48. | :33:50. | |
retail offer which is available to consumers. My own local authority | :33:51. | :33:58. | |
has sought to introduce a range of additional charges over recent years | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
and has miserably failed to strike such a balance. A pointer will | :34:03. | :34:10. | |
return to shortly. Before doing so, it is worth exploring the link | :34:11. | :34:16. | |
between town centre prosperity and car parking provision in more | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
detail. There are of course our plethora of different factors that | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
the town centre. For this reason, it the town centre. For this reason, it | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
is incredibly difficult to evidence a clear link between parking | :34:31. | :34:33. | |
policies and success of town centres. In 2013 a number of | :34:34. | :34:40. | |
different organisations, including the Association of town and city | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
management, the British parking Association, Springboard research | :34:46. | :34:51. | |
Ltd and parking downtown research International put together a report | :34:52. | :34:54. | |
entitled rethink parking on the High Street. It was guidance parking | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
provision in town and city centres. This report look to see what | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
evidence could be collated and what could be learnt regarding the | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
relationship between car parking provision and town centre success. | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
Through analysing a range of information using a representative | :35:15. | :35:20. | |
group of town centres and primary indicators, those factors which are | :35:21. | :35:23. | |
judged that the largest impact on the health of the town centre, the | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
report provides some preliminary evidence which suggests important | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
trends and which provides a solid foundation for comprehensive | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
research. Due to the wide range of variable factors at play, the method | :35:38. | :35:52. | |
used in the report was tightly drawn to focus on a number of specific | :35:53. | :35:57. | |
influences, for example instead of considering alterations of parking | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
the report focuses specifically on the first two hours as it was felt | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
that this would cover those who have partners shopping and woods | :36:07. | :36:12. | |
eliminate other parking habits, such as commuter parking, from the | :36:13. | :36:15. | |
information. The parking variables which are considered included the | :36:16. | :36:18. | |
cost of parking and the quality of the spaces. In relation to the many | :36:19. | :36:25. | |
different indicators of town centre performance, the report measured the | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
two key statistics of the default and spend. Finally, the individual | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
towns which were the subject of the report were carefully selected so as | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
to provide a representative sample of town centre landscapes across the | :36:40. | :36:45. | |
UK. Towns in each region were included in the span the entire | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
retail hierarchy run major city to district centre level. As a | :36:51. | :36:59. | |
consequence of these precise methods that were used and acknowledging | :37:00. | :37:02. | |
that the variables that were chosen are only able to reflect part of | :37:03. | :37:08. | |
this wide and complex picture, we have to be naturally cautious of any | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
sparing this amount of the report sparing this amount of the report | :37:14. | :37:16. | |
does suggest interesting finds and trends. Firstly, that the parking | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
operators are providing parking provision that equates to the | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
football levels achieved by the location. Secondly, that there is no | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
clear relationship between car parking charges, that is set by | :37:31. | :37:37. | |
parking orders for operators, and the quality offer of the location | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
with some live range or smaller town centre potentially overcharging. | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
Finally, that the mid-range and smaller groupings of centres that | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
charge more than the national average with regard to theirs offers | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
suffer a higher than higher average decline in football in 2011, the | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
year the information was collected. Whilst we have to be cautious and | :38:01. | :38:03. | |
acknowledge that this is not conclusive evidence that the cost of | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
parking has a tangible influence on town centre prosperity, it does open | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
up an avenue for further research and it conforms to the common-sense | :38:12. | :38:19. | |
opinion with regard to the likelihood of the existence of a | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
link. Indeed, the fact that the report suggest that town centres | :38:24. | :38:26. | |
with higher than average parking costs showed an average decline in | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
2011 will hardly come as a surprise to most. It is evident that further | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
research is required before it can be categorically stated that any | :38:39. | :38:44. | |
such link exists. Furthermore, this tale of any detrimental impact than | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
higher than average parking costs may have the High Street and habits | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
of consumers is also unknown and requires additional investigation. | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
Each town centre is unique and is exposed the widely different | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
external factors and so what is true in one context may not be | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
demonstrated in another. I ever, the initial trend as suggested by this | :39:09. | :39:12. | |
report certainly should act as a wake-up call for local authorities | :39:13. | :39:20. | |
up and down the country. The very point leads me onto the record of my | :39:21. | :39:27. | |
own local authority, Calderdale Metropolitan Borough Council, who | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
have had a chequered history when it comes to implementing parking | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
charges. During the second reading of this bill a few months ago I | :39:36. | :39:38. | |
challenge the notion that local authorities do not use car parking | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
charges as a means of generating additional revenue. Now whilst I am | :39:44. | :39:50. | |
not placed to comment on the choices that other local authorities have | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
made over the last few years, I can say a few words about Calderdale's | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
unflattering record in this regard. In 2012 the Cabinet of Calderdale | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
Council approved a raft of additional car parking charges. The | :40:05. | :40:11. | |
title of the paper was the parking income generation study. And the | :40:12. | :40:19. | |
first line of the report unashamedly made it explicitly clear that the | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
intention of the proposals was to generate additional revenue from | :40:25. | :40:32. | |
parking. The proposals included a wide-ranging additional charges were | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
parking was free up to then added into generate an extra ?800,000 per | :40:37. | :40:42. | |
annum. Some of the measures outlined in the report were a genuine temp | :40:43. | :40:48. | |
two manage existing parking and traffic difficulties, including | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
long-standing problems around Calderdale Royal Hospital for | :40:54. | :40:55. | |
example, many of the proposals the areas where there was no | :40:56. | :41:02. | |
identifiable problems of parking or traffic management. Such measures | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
included the introduction of evening car parking charges in car parks | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
which were previously free in the small market towns and villages of | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
my constituency, such as Brighouse, Wrekenton and West feel. As members | :41:17. | :41:22. | |
will be aware, local authorities are only allowed to spend parking income | :41:23. | :41:29. | |
on certain things. Section 55 of the Road traffic regulations act of 1984 | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
as amended is the relevant piece of legislation here. It states that the | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
local authority shall keep an open account of their income and | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
expenditure in respect of parking places for which they are at the | :41:42. | :41:50. | |
local authority. Sections 55 subsection two and subsection four | :41:51. | :41:53. | |
other particularly prevalent parts that other what a surplus may be | :41:54. | :41:54. | |
spent on. These are where the council has | :41:55. | :42:04. | |
previously used money from a general fund to pay back money, meeting | :42:05. | :42:16. | |
parts of costs of provision of parking accommodation. If it appears | :42:17. | :42:24. | |
that the provision of further off-street accommodation is | :42:25. | :42:26. | |
unnecessary or undesirable for the following purposes, meeting costs | :42:27. | :42:30. | |
incurred whether by the local authority or some other person in | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
the local transport services. The purposes of highway or road | :42:36. | :42:38. | |
improvement projects in the local authority's area, in the case of | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
London authorities, meeting costs incurred by the authority in respect | :42:43. | :42:50. | |
of the maintenance of roads. The purposes of environmental | :42:51. | :42:53. | |
improvement in the local area and finally, they can use money in the | :42:54. | :42:56. | |
case of such local authorities as may be prescribed for any other | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
purposes for which the authority may lawfully incur expenditure around | :43:03. | :43:09. | |
parking. Of course, some of these charges which are implemented by | :43:10. | :43:12. | |
local authorities fit more comfortably than others within the | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
remit of legislation in section 55. In the examples given a few moments | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
ago within my own local authority, it could be argued that while the | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
measures to address problem parking issues around a busy hospital for | :43:26. | :43:29. | |
within both the letter and the spirit of the law, the proposals to | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
cash in on the lucrative market of evening parking charges in a busy | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
town centre are more questionable and difficult to justify. Local | :43:40. | :43:46. | |
authorities such as Calderdale will, I suspect, continue to try to defend | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
their actions in increasing parking charges. However tenuous the links | :43:51. | :43:59. | |
with a genuine desire to improve traffic situations in the area. The | :44:00. | :44:02. | |
judgment which has already been mentioned by the right honourable | :44:03. | :44:07. | |
member opposite in the case of Attfield and Barnet council | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
clarified the position where local authorities seek to use their powers | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
to charge local residents for parking explicitly in order to raise | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
surplus revenue for other transport purposes funded by the General fund. | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
In making her judgment against Barnet Council, Mrs Justice Lang | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
said that the council cannot set out with the objective of raising | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
parking charges in order to generate a surplus to fund other transport | :44:38. | :44:48. | |
schemes. David Attfield was able to win the case because the council was | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
open about increasing charges to provide revenue. The Cabinet | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
committee paper I alluded to earlier is produced by Calderdale Council | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
was frequently explicit in its overt intention to raise charges to | :45:01. | :45:04. | |
provide additional revenue. So I suspect that had this proposal been | :45:05. | :45:10. | |
formally challenged in the courts, a similar outcome to the verdict in | :45:11. | :45:13. | |
Attfield and Barnet may have been reached. Residents and community | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
groups, not to mention opposition councils and local authorities | :45:19. | :45:21. | |
across the country, may wish to pay attention to the ways in which local | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
authorities attempt to justify such increases in the future, as I am | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
sure Barnet Council is not unique in seeking to use motorists as cash | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
cows. In the absence of any further legal challenges to the practices of | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
local authority, it is down to residents and councillors to hold | :45:43. | :45:45. | |
local politicians to account. The additional charges I mentioned in | :45:46. | :45:51. | |
Calderdale that were improved in 2012 formally took effect in 2014. | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
Within months, the discontent of local residents and businesses who | :45:56. | :45:59. | |
were adversely affected by the charges had triggered opposition | :46:00. | :46:03. | |
councillors to hold a vote of no-confidence in the ruling Labour | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
administration and the council. The vote was carried and within weeks of | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
the new parking meters being installed, they were removed once | :46:13. | :46:15. | |
again on the orders of the new Conservative-led administration. | :46:16. | :46:20. | |
That is just one example of local democracy in action. However, such | :46:21. | :46:28. | |
is the nature of the finely balanced political landscape of Calderdale | :46:29. | :46:31. | |
Council that a few years later, the same Labour Cabinet once again were | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
in control and they are now seeking to reimpose many of the same | :46:37. | :46:40. | |
additional parking charges once again. The latest proposals for | :46:41. | :46:49. | |
additional charges affect a number of local towns including Brickhouse, | :46:50. | :46:53. | |
where the local business group have worked incredibly hard to | :46:54. | :46:58. | |
reinvigorate the town centre and to increase footfall. The efforts of | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
the traders in Brickhouse have seen town centre flourish and it runs | :47:03. | :47:11. | |
several farmers' markets every year, which bring people from across the | :47:12. | :47:14. | |
country. To the dismay of the traders, the residents and local | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
councillors, the counsellor seeking to impose on street parking charges | :47:19. | :47:25. | |
in the town centre despite it being widely acknowledged that there are | :47:26. | :47:29. | |
no problems with the flow of traffic, nor with the turnover of | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
parking spaces for consumers. To say the local business community are | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
furious is an understatement. The traders are rightly concerned about | :47:39. | :47:40. | |
the damaging effect that these proposals could have upon their | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
businesses and their livelihoods and despite making their feelings known | :47:45. | :47:50. | |
to the council, the local Labour politicians seem content to proceed | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
with their plans regardless of the scale of any opposition. This bill | :47:55. | :48:01. | |
makes provision for local authorities to consult interested | :48:02. | :48:04. | |
parties if they are seeking to increase the cost of parking | :48:05. | :48:08. | |
charges, to ensure the impacts of the towns are fully considered. This | :48:09. | :48:15. | |
can only be a positive step forward. Local businesses, residents and | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
councillors understand their own town centres and communities. They | :48:22. | :48:27. | |
are the ones who can recognise which measures will work and how their | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
local high street can be properly managed. It is a right that they are | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
consulted on any potential increases in charges and that detailed | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
consideration is given the impacts of such proposals on their town | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
centres. I appreciate that many local authorities will engage in | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
thorough consultation with their communities when it comes to such | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
issues, and I applaud them for doing so. But let me assure members that | :48:56. | :49:02. | |
this does not happen everywhere, so I wholeheartedly welcome the | :49:03. | :49:05. | |
provision within this bill to ensure that local communities are involved | :49:06. | :49:09. | |
in the decision-making process. I am sure that local communities such as | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
Brighouse will also welcome this measure and the opportunities it | :49:15. | :49:18. | |
will present to them to ensure that their views are taken into | :49:19. | :49:22. | |
consideration. During the second reading of this bill, the honourable | :49:23. | :49:26. | |
member from Royton, the opposition spokesman, raised questions in | :49:27. | :49:31. | |
relation to how the consultation process might work. He is correct in | :49:32. | :49:38. | |
that further detail with relation to the consultation process is indeed | :49:39. | :49:41. | |
required, and I trust that my honourable friend the member for | :49:42. | :49:44. | |
Nuneaton will elaborate upon this point later. As well as making | :49:45. | :49:51. | |
provision for consulting local communities, this bill also seeks to | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
make it easier for local authorities to lower their parking charges to | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
promote the economic viability of town centres. Specifically, it makes | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
provision for a reduction in charges without the need for the current 21 | :50:05. | :50:10. | |
days' notice. This reform will provide local authorities with the | :50:11. | :50:13. | |
flexibility to react more quickly to changes and the ability to innovate | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
in providing additional support town centres. Many of the market towns | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
within my constituency, such as Hebden Bridge, are still getting | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
back on their feet following the devastating floods they experienced | :50:29. | :50:37. | |
on Boxing Day in 2015. And just as a note, Hebden Bridge won the small | :50:38. | :50:40. | |
market town category of the great British high street awards last | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
year. And that is despite the flooding, so well done to them. Many | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
of the businesses within these towns struggled in the months after the | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
floods, when footfall on the high street was significantly reduced. | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
This proposal would have allowed the local authority flexibility of | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
quickly deciding how car parking charges in those towns could have | :51:04. | :51:09. | |
been used as a tool to support local businesses. Ideas such as free | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
parking on certain days or unlimited -- a limited production dock I will | :51:15. | :51:23. | |
give way. Just on that point flexibility and a local authority | :51:24. | :51:30. | |
being able to reduce car parking charges to reflect a situation like | :51:31. | :51:33. | |
the flooding, would my honourable friend agree that another advantage | :51:34. | :51:38. | |
of that would be, when you have an issue such as flooding, those | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
volunteers that come from outside to help those communities through a | :51:43. | :51:47. | |
difficult patch, and one of my local councillors had a collection of | :51:48. | :51:50. | |
materials to help in that situation, it would have been a great gesture | :51:51. | :51:56. | |
for the council to be able to make? I would like to thank my honourable | :51:57. | :52:03. | |
friend for her interjection. One of the great points about the floods | :52:04. | :52:08. | |
was that it was not the dozens of volunteers that game, but we had | :52:09. | :52:11. | |
thousands of people come to the Calder Valley, as no doubt other | :52:12. | :52:20. | |
areas did as well. And the outpouring of support for our | :52:21. | :52:22. | |
communities at that time from the whole of the UK, we had people | :52:23. | :52:26. | |
coming from Cornwall and even overseas to help, firemen and people | :52:27. | :52:33. | |
bringing food, mops, buckets, cleaning materials. You are right, | :52:34. | :52:40. | |
it is about giving something back to those people, for example a free car | :52:41. | :52:44. | |
parking. It is a small gesture compared to the huge support they | :52:45. | :52:52. | |
gave us at that awful time. But as I have said, ideas such as parking on | :52:53. | :52:58. | |
certain days for free or limited reductions in charges could have | :52:59. | :53:06. | |
been considered. Measures such as these would have provided traders in | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
these towns with a boost at the time that they were struggling to attract | :53:11. | :53:17. | |
footfall. We don't want football, because we haven't got a football | :53:18. | :53:24. | |
pitch! It is now over 12 months since the flooding hit the Calder | :53:25. | :53:27. | |
Valley, and the effects of the floods are still being felt by many | :53:28. | :53:34. | |
businesses. One of the main gateways to the town centre of a limp was | :53:35. | :53:37. | |
destroyed by the floods and still remains closed to traffic, in effect | :53:38. | :53:43. | |
cutting the town of Elland in half, very similar to what we have seen in | :53:44. | :53:50. | |
other places. Traders and small businesses in Elland have struggled | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
with significantly lower levels of footfall in the past year, not least | :53:55. | :53:57. | |
as a consequence of the closure of that bridge. Under this bill, the | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
local authority could have sought to introduce an imaginative strategy to | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
bring people to the town. This would have provided a huge lift to the | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
traders and the community and would have been a clear signal that the | :54:11. | :54:15. | |
town was open for business. It is vital that councils have the | :54:16. | :54:18. | |
flexibility to reduce or suspend charges at short notice to still | :54:19. | :54:23. | |
elect the high street. Sometimes, this may be in relation to | :54:24. | :54:27. | |
exceptional circumstances such as those I have alluded to. On other | :54:28. | :54:32. | |
occasions, it may be to support a community event or festival, such as | :54:33. | :54:35. | |
reducing charges in the run-up to Christmas trading. Furthermore, it | :54:36. | :54:41. | |
will allow councils to experiment and innovate. In many towns, there | :54:42. | :54:44. | |
is a significant difference between the levels of occupation in | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
different car parks and on street parking bays within the same | :54:50. | :54:53. | |
locality. This bill will allow councils to develop temporary | :54:54. | :54:57. | |
incentives to increase the awareness of underutilised assets and to see | :54:58. | :55:05. | |
which parking strategy is best suited to areas within a town. | :55:06. | :55:11. | |
Requiring 21 days' notice for the announcement to be published in a | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
local paper in the area is both over bureaucratic and unnecessary in this | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
day and age. When the council is competing with the private sector, | :55:21. | :55:29. | |
as in many areas it also puts them at a significant competitive | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
disadvantage, as private firms can currently vary charges as they see | :55:34. | :55:42. | |
fit. With the honourable gentleman agree that it is right that there | :55:43. | :55:45. | |
are some restrictions in terms of making it more difficult for | :55:46. | :55:48. | |
councils to deal with the sort of rapacious behaviour described by his | :55:49. | :55:52. | |
own counsel when the Labour Party are in charge of it? My honourable | :55:53. | :55:58. | |
friend is correct. I refer back to the fact that I spent 30 years in | :55:59. | :56:02. | |
retail. I know from my experience that when there is a proper parking | :56:03. | :56:07. | |
strategy in place, it benefits everybody. I remember one store in | :56:08. | :56:12. | |
particular that I worked for, Wilkinson 's home and garden stores, | :56:13. | :56:17. | |
when I was a general manager in their store in Bury in the cache. -- | :56:18. | :56:26. | |
in Lancashire. When the council there put a strategy in place for a | :56:27. | :56:34. | |
car park next 's, business increased by 15%, a significant uplift, just | :56:35. | :56:39. | |
by getting the car parking strategy right. So my honourable friend is | :56:40. | :56:42. | |
right. By getting the strategy and making sure that we have a proper, | :56:43. | :56:49. | |
open and honest debate about what can benefit all parts of towns, | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
whether it is the high street or the local hospital area, it can make a | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
huge difference not only to business, but also to residents and | :56:59. | :56:59. | |
people coming to the town. I thank the honourable member for | :57:00. | :57:11. | |
giving way. It seems to me that he is being more than a bit partisan | :57:12. | :57:16. | |
here. Is he aware it is often Conservative controlled councils | :57:17. | :57:19. | |
which make the most money from parking across the UK? I have looked | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
at the Independent newspaper for December 2000 15. They say | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
Westminster Council made an astonishing 46.4 million that year. | :57:30. | :57:37. | |
I would like to thank the honourable gentleman for his intervention. I | :57:38. | :57:43. | |
think I said earlier in my speech that actually those councils that do | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
it well are welcome. Sadly there are far too many and in my case, in my | :57:50. | :57:53. | |
own experience in a Labour-controlled council in | :57:54. | :57:57. | |
Calderdale, they have openly admitted it. As did Barnett, who | :57:58. | :58:03. | |
went to court, they were taken to court, that they use it as a cash | :58:04. | :58:09. | |
cow. That is why I was not being particularly partisan but pointing | :58:10. | :58:12. | |
out the mere fact Calderdale is a Labour-controlled council but were | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
honest enough to say they were using it as a cash cow. I will give way. I | :58:17. | :58:26. | |
made an early intervention that by trying to use comparators in central | :58:27. | :58:31. | |
London to the rest of the country is ridiculous. The reason why | :58:32. | :58:34. | |
Westminster Council makes a lot out of parking is because it is in the | :58:35. | :58:40. | |
very centre of London. As always my honourable friend makes a valid | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
point. Whether it is London, centre of Manchester, Birmingham or indeed | :58:45. | :58:50. | |
leads, the strategies they will have in place compared to what they would | :58:51. | :58:56. | |
have in small villages like Brighouse would be entirely | :58:57. | :59:01. | |
different. He is absolutely right. I will give way to the honourable | :59:02. | :59:07. | |
member. His experience contrasts with my experiences with our local | :59:08. | :59:11. | |
Conservative council, this is not a political point but it reflects, I | :59:12. | :59:15. | |
believe, a very pro-business culture in that council. One of our market | :59:16. | :59:21. | |
towns in Thirsk have introduced a scheme in the market square car park | :59:22. | :59:27. | |
with the first hour free, which has increased the turnover of shoppers | :59:28. | :59:31. | |
and parkers. As I think he related to in his first remarks. He makes an | :59:32. | :59:39. | |
incredibly valid point. As a retailer it is vitally important | :59:40. | :59:42. | |
that when a local resident is popping down to the town centre to | :59:43. | :59:47. | |
get a pint of milk or a loaf of bread, the essentials we need for | :59:48. | :59:53. | |
daily living, that they can do so at absolute ease. And an excellent car | :59:54. | :59:59. | |
parking strategy would be one that allows people to do that as fluidly | :00:00. | :00:04. | |
and as quickly as they possibly can. Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, high | :00:05. | :00:09. | |
streets and town centres continue to play a fundamental role in the lives | :00:10. | :00:14. | |
of our communities and parking is one of those factors which is most | :00:15. | :00:21. | |
able to shape the success. If local authorities can get the correct | :00:22. | :00:23. | |
balance, a successful parking strategy can bring visitors. And | :00:24. | :00:30. | |
just on that point I would say, I mentioned the Brighouse business | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
initiative earlier, how they do farmers markets in our area. One of | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
the things they do every year is a massive 1940s we can. It brings | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
about 200,000 people, additional people, in. That is how initiatives | :00:45. | :00:50. | |
in town centres can really bring in footfall. Car parking plays a vital | :00:51. | :00:57. | |
role in that. It helps to reinvigorate a town centre, as well. | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
Certainly if the local council gets it wrong, a town centre can | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
experience an all too different result. Where local authorities seek | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
to support the high street by reducing charges, this Bill will | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
facilitate them and give them the flexibility to do so. If they adopt | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
a different approach and seek to raise charges, this Bill ensures | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
local people and businesses are properly consulted and the impact on | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
the town is fully considered before any changes are made. This Bill, | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
Madam Deputy is bigger, has the potential to make a lasting positive | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
impact upon our town centres, and I wholeheartedly support the intention | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
behind it. I welcome the fact the Government and opposition have | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
suggested they will support the Bill and I commenced the honourable | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
member for Bosworth for bringing it before the House. The very final | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
point I will make before I sit down is a message to the Minister, just | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
to point out that whilst he has a great knack of HMV Gallery, if you | :01:59. | :02:07. | |
would like to have a look at, the gallery is almost full. -- playing | :02:08. | :02:14. | |
to the gallery. I would also like to add my congratulations to the | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
honourable member for Bosworth for I think achieving his goal, which I | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
think is incredibly simple, but also really makes a lot of common sense. | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
The importance of this Bill is not to be underestimated. Certainly | :02:27. | :02:33. | |
Derby City Council in the last five years have made around ?20 million | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
from parking and fines. But for me what this does is actually enables, | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
instead of the money just going to parking and focusing on parking, it | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
actually enables us to look at what we should be doing to the city and | :02:48. | :02:54. | |
city regeneration and making it better and easier for people to come | :02:55. | :03:01. | |
in and use our cities wisely. So the provision, I think, is rightly to | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
aim for the flexibility. This is something of particular importance | :03:06. | :03:11. | |
to do this, to try to get people coming into our cities more often. | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
We have mentioned before the great British high-street awards and in | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
actual fact, the Cathedral Quarter in Derby won it last year, the | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
high-street of the year award. We are very proud of that. It is not to | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
be underestimated how we did that, because we took a challenge, which | :03:33. | :03:39. | |
was a centre which was built, a new centre, built ten years ago, which | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
at the time took away the business from other parts of the city and | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
offered parking and shopping all in one place. Whereas now what we have | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
managed to do is regenerate two other parts of the city, we are | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
working on that and parking plays a significant part in that. And | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
certainly one of the things I would look to encourage is the flexibility | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
councils can offer in terms of looking at other things they can do | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
in terms of having one Saturday per month where they offer cheaper | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
parking to go to certain areas, or indeed, could they have free parking | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
at night, or one hour in the morning, as one of my honourable | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
friend 's mentioned? I think this is a great opportunity. I certainly | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
think this is something we should absolutely consider. The work of the | :04:34. | :04:41. | |
bid, and we have spoken about it before, is not going to be | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
underestimated, because they have a challenge in terms of getting people | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
who would normally want to have convenience shopping to actually | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
take advantage of places not in our shopping centre. Therefore one of | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
the ways they can do this is by having very reasonable and | :05:00. | :05:06. | |
convenient parking. So people will think this is destination shopping | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
where they can go, Park readily, get out of their car, they know it will | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
be reasonable and they can go and do their shopping. This is where I | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
think we can help, certainly small businesses, to do that. And we can | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
encourage a two centre shopping experience as opposed to the one | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
centre shopping experience was seeming to dominate at one point. I | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
also think one of the things we take great advantage of in Derby is the | :05:36. | :05:42. | |
use of events. We have the Derby test, which is very well attended, | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
with people performing in the street, we also have Christmas | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
markets, farmers markets, all of which we are trying to regenerate in | :05:53. | :05:59. | |
an area in Derby for people to come and enjoy and seek entertainment. | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
Clearly one of the things that should be done on these events is to | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
offer a parking offer as well, to make it more attractive for people | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
to be able to come along and attend these events. Because there is a | :06:14. | :06:19. | |
danger that people tend to go to the shopping centre, park there and not | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
then get out of the centre to go to other places where they will find | :06:26. | :06:32. | |
and have entertainment. So responding to local needs is exactly | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
what we need to do. And I certainly see this as a great opportunity for | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
us. One of the things we are also trying to do is encourage people to | :06:43. | :06:44. | |
walk from one destination to another. At the moment that isn't | :06:45. | :06:51. | |
happening because you can have a cheaper offer in our centres, | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
meaning people are parking in the centres and staying in the centres. | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
Whereas if we had a cheaper parking outside of the centres, say in the | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
Cathedral Quarter or Saint Peter 's quarter, that would mean people are | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
able to park there and then go and explore other parts of our great | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
city. Or indeed go to the market Hall where they can experience the | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
delights of the Derby pie clips, which I can recommend to many | :07:18. | :07:24. | |
people. If you do not know what that is it is a flattened crumpet. Like | :07:25. | :07:32. | |
my honourable friend for Calder Valley, I have been in retail, I was | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
in retail before I came here for over 30 years and it is not to be | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
underestimated the value retail can actually have on our economy. And | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
certainly the Federation of small businesses have highlighted the | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
parking charges as one of the main issues discouraging shoppers from | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
visiting traditional high streets. For me one of the most important | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
things we can do is try and regenerate these traditional high | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
street is, get people back and using them. And dependence, as well. I | :08:04. | :08:10. | |
think these parking charges will definitely be in courage in that. -- | :08:11. | :08:18. | |
dependents. -- encouraging that. I think again what we need to do is | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
make it as easy and attractive as possible for people to visit the | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
high-street and cities instead of sitting and doing online shopping | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
and it is automatically delivered to your door. Because what we are | :08:33. | :08:35. | |
trying to do as well, certainly in Derby city, and I suspect in a lot | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
of other city centres as well is to have not only a daytime economy we | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
are boosting, but a night-time economy, as well. It would be lovely | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
if we could see people walking along the high-street, having a bit of a | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
cafe culture that you see and taking part in what is the richness of our | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
Cathedral city. In my time as an MP I have taken part in small-business | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
Saturday each year and gunships in some of our local shops. And I have | :09:07. | :09:14. | |
to say... Done shifts in some of our local shops. We need to do | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
everything we can to get people to come to these shops. If we can get | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
people parking resolutely and easily and get them through the door they | :09:23. | :09:25. | |
will see the offer that is available is something unique and interesting. | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
And also something to certainly being courage. I will give way to | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
the honourable member. -- encouraged. Would she also agree | :09:35. | :09:43. | |
that one of the things of the high streets have is a small independent | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
trader? Which is what business Saturday is all about. And in those | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
shops very often you get a different offer that he would not necessarily | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
get on the Internet. You also get that personal service. And actually, | :09:58. | :10:03. | |
that is something worth having. So anything we can do to attract people | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
to enjoy our towns and cities and use that as leveraged, we must | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
encourage. Absolutely. As I mentioned earlier, we have just won | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
a high-street award. One of the reasons is that in the Cathedral | :10:21. | :10:23. | |
Quarter we have a unique offer in terms of shops that are available. I | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
would like to mention one of them which I think is a good way forward, | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
where a group of designers all get together and they all offer goods in | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
their shop, all very individually designed and then they take a turn | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
in working and selling those products. I think that is very | :10:41. | :10:47. | |
innovative. It is also inspirational and draws people in because you | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
would not get that as an example in our shopping centre. So absolutely, | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
I completely agree with my honourable friend. The private | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
sector has such an important part to play in this and again I think this | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
is why we should definitely... Of course I will. She makes a point | :11:08. | :11:14. | |
about the private sector and it is so important local authorities | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
consult with the private sector. Yet in York when I first located a | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
business and in our head offices, the council sold the car parks and | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
raised the charges on the remaining car parks. Really destroyed a lot of | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
the independent retailers in that city. Because at the same time they | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
were giving consent for out of town shopping centres, of which the rock | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
four around York, and then they gained from huge contributions back | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
into the council coppers, it is really anti-business in terms of | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
what is she says is the really important independent retailers in | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
our towns and city centres. Having been not just in retail but | :11:53. | :12:04. | |
an avid shopper for 30 years, I have on many occasions visited York. It | :12:05. | :12:11. | |
is a shame. Shopping centres do have their place, but we need to work in | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
partnership and make sure that we have two offers. As I mentioned | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
earlier, it is two almost defined destinations. One will be the | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
shopping centre and the other will be the independent retailers with a | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
very different for that is available. By allowing councils like | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
derby the freedom to set their parking charges on a more flexible | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
basis, we can allow local knowledge to have an impact on the local | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
understanding in terms of meeting local demand. At the same time, I | :12:43. | :12:53. | |
think it is relevant that the local authority needs to consult in terms | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
of whether they increase parking charges. They need to be given the | :12:58. | :13:05. | |
opportunity to consider whether the pay increase is correct and also | :13:06. | :13:13. | |
allow local people and businesses to be consulted in terms of whether it | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
is appropriate. Whilst I acknowledge that they still will be able to put | :13:18. | :13:24. | |
up prices if they choose, the opportunity to have that discussion | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
is important. That will mean there won't be any surprises and people | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
will at least know if prices are going up and it will allow | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
businesses and consumers to take note of that. | :13:40. | :13:50. | |
Finally, from my point of view, I fully support this sensible bill | :13:51. | :13:57. | |
that is being put forward. I can't emphasise enough the need for us to | :13:58. | :14:08. | |
keep supporting these retailers and independents and to keep encouraging | :14:09. | :14:14. | |
entrepreneurship. Parking is such a simple, effective way of encouraging | :14:15. | :14:21. | |
people to come into our city centres and see what the offerings. To | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
conclude, I give my full support to this bill. I think its provisions | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
are long overdue. It is one of these things that surprises me. Why hasn't | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
it been brought forward before? It makes so much sense. I think these | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
changes will be positive for villages, towns and cities up and | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
down the country. James Morris. I would also like to congratulate the | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
honourable member for Bosworth. This bill has the virtue of being very | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
simple, and I think that matches his criteria. It will also meet the | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
other criteria he laid out, so I welcome this bill and rise to | :15:02. | :15:10. | |
support third reading of it. High streets across the UK are under | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
pressure from a shift in spending from physical shops to online stop | :15:15. | :15:20. | |
there were 15 shop closures a day across the UK in the first half of | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
2016. And the number of new openings has fallen to the lowest level for | :15:26. | :15:32. | |
five years. That is why local authorities need to be able to do | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
all they can to help support local high streets and shops. And this | :15:37. | :15:45. | |
bill, with its simple implementation of new provisions, will give local | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
councils like mine the flexibility to help. I know from my own | :15:51. | :15:58. | |
constituency the problems local businesses are facing. Halesowen, | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
Craig Lee heath and Blackheath have important high streets within my | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
constituency that have a wide variety of shops, places of worship | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
Tom local services and entertainment venues which are popular among local | :16:13. | :16:21. | |
people. However, any time I visit one of my local high streets, | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
parking is nearly always the number one concern of local shop and | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
business owners. The Halesowen chamber of trade in particular and | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
local councillors in Halesowen have for a long time been campaigning for | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
reduced charges and where appropriate, free parking on our | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
local high street. Conservative councillors in Halesowen have | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
secured an important trial period for two hours of free parking to | :16:54. | :17:00. | |
help boost local footfall. If successful, I hope to see this move | :17:01. | :17:03. | |
extended to all council owned car parks. However, while I feel this | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
bill will prove useful to do Dudley bill will prove useful to do Dudley | :17:08. | :17:14. | |
well councils in my constituency because it would give them the | :17:15. | :17:17. | |
flexibility to do this more witty and more efficiently, as it stands | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
at the moment, local residents will need to wait until April for this | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
measure to come into effect. But local businesses are frustrated at | :17:26. | :17:28. | |
the time it takes to get this initiative going. The chamber of | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
trade is actively taking steps to increase footfall around the town, | :17:34. | :17:40. | |
looking at ideas for more activities, organising celebration | :17:41. | :17:43. | |
events and consulting with local businesses on what they need to help | :17:44. | :17:49. | |
them succeed. I would also like to take this opportunity is to | :17:50. | :17:51. | |
congratulate the chamber in Halesowen for the work they have | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
done to establish the first business improvement district within the | :17:58. | :18:00. | |
Dudley Boro, and hope that their well thought out is this plan is | :18:01. | :18:07. | |
approved next week. Traders' groups across the country organise special | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
promotional days to create more interest and increase the number of | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
people visiting, but many of these groups are frustrated by the | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
unnecessary bureaucracy they face when working with local councils to | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
set promotional incentives on parking. Many members of this House | :18:26. | :18:33. | |
will support their local high streets, as the honourable member | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
Ford Dudley North dead on small business Saturday. We should be | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
using campaigns like this to help our local shopkeepers. Just last | :18:42. | :18:48. | |
week, I visited a new business on Halesowen high street, the English | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
rose tea room, owned by the inspirational Gemma. She has | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
fulfilled her lifelong dream of owning her own business and not | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
allowed her challenges - she has been suffering from autism -- which | :19:04. | :19:14. | |
has not held her back. We should do all we can to create an environment | :19:15. | :19:20. | |
to help businesses like Gemma's thrive and remove barriers to | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
success. The Federation of Small Businesses references, as the | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
honourable member for Bosworth alluded to in his remarks, high | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
parking charges along with other issues such as changes in the way | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
people shop is discouraging shoppers from visiting traditional high | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
streets. The impact on the high street has been most seriously felt | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
by small retailers in smaller town centres. They agree that making it | :19:48. | :19:53. | |
easier to reduce car parking charges will go some way towards alleviating | :19:54. | :20:00. | |
this pressure. Unfortunately, as other honourable members have | :20:01. | :20:02. | |
pointed out, many local authorities are planning to hike parking charges | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
even further. The local government information unit think-tank last | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
year produced a report which suggested that nine in ten local | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
councils were considering to increase parking charges for off | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
street parking, despite the enormous amounts of money already raised | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
nationally. In my opinion, this is a short-sighted measure. It does not | :20:29. | :20:30. | |
address the problem facing our high streets and is just a quick method | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
of finding more ways to make money out of local motorists. For this | :20:35. | :20:42. | |
reason, it is important that local people and businesses are properly | :20:43. | :20:49. | |
engaged with the procedure if local council decides to increase parking | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
charges. It is only right that there is proper consultation on measures | :20:54. | :20:55. | |
which could adversely impact on local residents. This bill would | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
result in local authorities being required to consult interested | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
parties like local Traders' groups if there are seeking to increase the | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
cost parking charges. I welcome this. It is essential that the views | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
of those who work, live and rely on our high streets feel as if they | :21:18. | :21:24. | |
have the opportunity to make their case and that their views are | :21:25. | :21:32. | |
properly considered. In places like Brighouse and Hebden Bridge in my | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
constituency, where the local business initiatives work tirelessly | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
to put events on to boost footfall in the town centre, would my | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
honourable friend agree that those types of organisations and business | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
traders are the very people that need a high input into these | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
consultations, because they know what goes on? The honourable | :21:57. | :22:06. | |
gentleman makes a good point. In his constituency and my constituency, | :22:07. | :22:09. | |
organisations like the Halesowen chamber of trade, which has done a | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
huge amount of work trying to bring extra footfall into Halesowen, are | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
the group who should be front and centre of consultation on the | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
parking charges regime proposed for Halesowen, and that voice needs to | :22:22. | :22:30. | |
be heard. This measure is not necessarily to prohibit any increase | :22:31. | :22:36. | |
at all in charges. Occasionally, it may be necessary to increase charges | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
if the overhead costs are rising as well, especially in car parks would | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
require access through machines and extra staffing. It is about ensuring | :22:46. | :22:53. | |
the impacts on towns are fully considered and preventing increases. | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
On street parking often sees the same level of increases as | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
off-street, when the costs of providing these spaces are nowhere | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
near the same. This often leads to local residents feeling that they | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
are a cash cow, as other honourable members have pointed out, for local | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
authorities to plug a financial hole. A balance needs to be struck. | :23:17. | :23:19. | |
It is not a one size fits all situation. This bill will make it | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
quicker and easier for local authorities to do the right thing | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
where they think necessary. This measure will also allow local | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
authorities the flexibility to incentivise use of car parks which | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
are underused. These are spaces which the Council are paying to | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
maintain and are sitting idle with little use. This is not a benefit to | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
either the local authority or shopping centres. Empty car parks | :23:47. | :23:48. | |
can become a magnet for anti-social behaviour and crime, so it is | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
important for local authorities to be able to respond to declining | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
numbers quickly and within the best interests of the local area. The | :23:58. | :24:07. | |
honourable gentleman makes a salient point about when car parks fall into | :24:08. | :24:13. | |
disrepair. They become places of anti-social behaviour, which acts as | :24:14. | :24:15. | |
a double disincentive for people wanted to come to towns. I thank the | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
honourable lady for her intervention. I totally agree. We | :24:21. | :24:27. | |
mustn't allow these places to become centres of anti-social behaviour. | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
They are critical in getting car parking white and making them places | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
that people want to go. It is critical to town centre regeneration | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
and creating that good retail environment. I further welcome the | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
government's moved to look at further reforms to the local | :24:47. | :24:54. | |
government transparency code, which tends to ensure that motorists can | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
see first-hand the complete breakdown of parking charges that | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
their councils impose and how much they raise. There is normally a | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
suspicion among drivers that parking charges and penalties are being used | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
to increase the amount of money that local authorities can spend. Local | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
authorities have no legal powers to set parking charges at a higher | :25:17. | :25:19. | |
level than that needed to achieve the objective of relieving or | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
preventing congestion of traffic. This bill allows local authorities | :25:24. | :25:31. | |
to become more mindful of this fact. In the 2013-14 financial year, | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
councils received just under ?739 million from on street parking and | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
?599 million from off-street parking. The income received varies | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
wildly from counsel to counsel. The boards did not receive any income | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
from parking, whereas Cambridge City Council received over ?3 million | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
from on street parking. In total, councils in England made net profits | :25:57. | :26:05. | |
of 60 million and more from penalty charge notices. My own local | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
authorities have recorded nearly half ?1 million between them in | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
profit from parking charges. Local people want and deserve to have | :26:15. | :26:17. | |
faith that this money is being used properly. Under the last Labour | :26:18. | :26:25. | |
government, revenue from parking increased from 608,000,019 97 to 1.3 | :26:26. | :26:32. | |
billion in 2010. Such parking enforcement has undermined local | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
high streets and I'm grateful to the government for making efforts to | :26:37. | :26:39. | |
rein in these overzealous and unfair rules. | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
I have supported the government's action on tackling higher parking | :26:46. | :26:52. | |
charges and aggressive parking enforcement which causes | :26:53. | :26:54. | |
considerable distress to thousands of motorists. I want to congratulate | :26:55. | :27:00. | |
the government on the measures it has used to stop parking being used | :27:01. | :27:06. | |
as a stealth tax, including stopping the industrial use of CCTV spy cars. | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
I believe it is in the best interest of my constituents and that of local | :27:13. | :27:15. | |
businesses and high streets that this bill, very ably introduced by | :27:16. | :27:23. | |
the honourable member for Boswell, will enact the link between parking | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
charges and the health of British high street. It cannot be under | :27:28. | :27:33. | |
estimated, this will make it easier for local authorities to lower their | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
charges to promote economic vitality in our town centres and if an | :27:39. | :27:41. | |
increase is to be considered, the right steps should be taken to make | :27:42. | :27:47. | |
sure they are properly considered. I believe these are the right measures | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
to help our local high streets and inject that much-needed incentive to | :27:52. | :27:57. | |
revive town centres and high Street in my constituency and across the | :27:58. | :28:07. | |
country. First, I would like to congratulate my honourable friend | :28:08. | :28:09. | |
Tom Bosworth in bringing forward this very important bill. It is a | :28:10. | :28:18. | |
dilemma and I will always be a champion of small, independent | :28:19. | :28:21. | |
businesses. Everything we do in terms regulation should consider the | :28:22. | :28:31. | |
needs of small businesses and try to create that level playing field with | :28:32. | :28:37. | |
large business that we absolutely need to seek to encourage the | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
success of the local, small, independent retailer and business. | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
Small, independent businesses cover around 60% of our private in sector | :28:48. | :28:56. | |
employed workforce and around 60% of private sector turnover, so they are | :28:57. | :29:03. | |
hugely important. I must declare and called house's attention to my | :29:04. | :29:09. | |
declaration of member's interests. We have an estate agent business, | :29:10. | :29:16. | |
which has 190 small, independent shops around the UK in various high | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
Street and market towns. We do not rely on them all in terms of | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
football, so it is not a big issue for us in terms of car parking and | :29:26. | :29:31. | |
people coming to town centres and city centres, but it is for the | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
general health of those towns and villages and our cities to make sure | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
that we absolutely have a vibrant and healthy sector in our high | :29:41. | :29:49. | |
streets and town centres. As our business started to grow, we started | :29:50. | :29:56. | |
in 1992, our business grew and we became the market leader in our town | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
of York which is where our first business started. We thought, this | :30:03. | :30:08. | |
is going quite well, we are doing OK, our business is starting to | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
prosper. And then three or four years another very good independent | :30:14. | :30:25. | |
started up later. We looked very carefully at the business and what | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
we were doing and we started to work harder again and it made us focus on | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
what made a successful in the first place. That is a small illustration | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
of what the importance is of small, independent businesses. It is not | :30:41. | :30:46. | |
just about the fact that they are at the heart of the community. It is | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
not just about the fact that they provide a better service, as my | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
honourable friend from Bury St Edmunds referred to. It is also | :30:57. | :31:03. | |
about their dynamics of the commercial realities of business. | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
They hold big business to account. Wherever we see a situation with big | :31:08. | :31:17. | |
business in a monopolistic situation, and they tend to | :31:18. | :31:22. | |
monopolise the out-of-town shopping centres we see, I think we can see | :31:23. | :31:25. | |
less good quality. An extreme example of that, I believe, is | :31:26. | :31:31. | |
British Telecom. It is a private sector monopoly. We have all | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
experienced some of the letters and complaints we get from our | :31:38. | :31:40. | |
constituents about the lack of quality when you get a private | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
sector monopoly. We absolutely need to have that balance between big | :31:46. | :31:51. | |
business and our many, very good big businesses in this nation, and our | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
business aspired to be a big business, but we also need to make | :31:58. | :32:03. | |
sure that we have a very vibrant small, independent business sector. | :32:04. | :32:06. | |
That is why I think this is so important. In my experience I have | :32:07. | :32:13. | |
experienced some really bad policies, bad local government | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
policies in terms of car parking, and the one I referred to earlier is | :32:18. | :32:23. | |
the one we saw in Europe where we started our first business. It is | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
not in my constituency, a lot of my constituents work in Europe and a | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
lot have businesses in your and our head office is still in York, but | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
York City Council went through a policy of selling of important city | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
centre car parks which created revenues for the Council, which also | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
created section 106 contributions from the developers of those car | :32:48. | :32:54. | |
parks. The remaining car parks had more pressure put on them and the | :32:55. | :32:57. | |
charges went up in those car parks. In the centre of Europe it is ?2 an | :32:58. | :33:05. | |
hour to park. It is ridiculous, a deterrent from getting people into | :33:06. | :33:11. | |
the centre. At the very same time they are granting planning consent | :33:12. | :33:14. | |
for out-of-town shopping centres with free parking. There are four | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
out-of-town shopping centres around York in a town with 200,000 | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
residents. There was no consultation with local businesses. Any | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
consultations that did happen, there were panics with some of the | :33:30. | :33:35. | |
independent retailers in the centre of York, but the council pushed | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
ahead anyway much to the detriment of independent retailers in the city | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
centre. But some more positive examples I feel are in my | :33:46. | :33:51. | |
constituency. Hamilton District Council has a very innovative policy | :33:52. | :34:00. | |
in some of their conurbations. In Thirsk they have a market square car | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
parks and they allow people to come and park for an hour and they get a | :34:06. | :34:10. | |
ticket from a machine and they get an hour's free parking, or they can | :34:11. | :34:16. | |
pay 60p and park for two hours. It creates tremendous turnover in the | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
town centre which is what businesses want. They want people to come in so | :34:21. | :34:28. | |
they can shop in that short cycle when people want to come in for a | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
short time and shop or go to lunch. It is easy to do that, rather than | :34:33. | :34:39. | |
to get the money and the machine if you want to park for longer. It | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
means great turnover in the town. You can pay to park for longer. | :34:44. | :34:50. | |
Would he agree with me, because somewhat similar to my constituency | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
near to a large town, in my case Cambridge, in his case York, that is | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
a different environment to those small, rural environments around | :35:01. | :35:07. | |
small market towns that we want to generate that throughput so those | :35:08. | :35:11. | |
traders can survive so the people in the locality who cannot very often | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
achieved their shopping without getting in their car have an equal | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
choice to others who live near a town. She makes a very good point | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
and I could not agree with her more. I guess the key is what we are | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
looking for here is a symbiotic relationship between the local | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
authority and the businesses in that town. There is a close relationship. | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
Of course the local authority benefits from success of a business | :35:39. | :35:45. | |
in a town. But sometimes that conversation is not as comprehensive | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
as it needs to be, or is not as close. The understanding is not | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
there. Some of the provisions of this bill, which is about the | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
consultation of changes to car parking, or the ability to lower car | :36:00. | :36:02. | |
parking without going through a detailed process, that is why it is | :36:03. | :36:09. | |
so important to take this legislation through. Another good | :36:10. | :36:16. | |
example is my town of Malton. In the centre it is still owned by the | :36:17. | :36:20. | |
Fitzwilliam estate, so most of the shops and the car parks in the | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
centre are owned by an estate. It is in their very interest because they | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
owned the shops, and there are quite a few houses in the centre, and they | :36:31. | :36:36. | |
own the car parks. It is a very vibrant commercial environment. As | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
well as investing heavily in the town and improving the shops, they | :36:41. | :36:48. | |
changed the parking in the town so there is two hours free car parking | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
in the town centre car parks, which again has provided this fantastic, | :36:54. | :37:00. | |
vibrant commercial activity which we see in Malton. It has been | :37:01. | :37:09. | |
tremendously successful. There is a guy called Tom Leland who has set | :37:10. | :37:16. | |
out to develop a brand around Malton. He has called the | :37:17. | :37:22. | |
Yorkshire's food capital. We have the Malton food Festival. We have a | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
fantastic weekend. Honourable members must consider coming. There | :37:27. | :37:32. | |
is music, there is a beer festival at the same time and some of | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
Yorkshire's finest food. Yorkshire does have the finest produce for | :37:37. | :37:45. | |
food. So... As you can tell. It has been a wonderful success story and | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
the town has been regenerated on the back of it. It has to be seen to be | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
believed and that is because there was a sin by author relationship | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
between the car park owners, the town centre owners and the | :37:59. | :38:01. | |
businesses, a deep understanding between them. Helmsley, again it is | :38:02. | :38:09. | |
a place where you get a lot of coach parties coming to see the wonders of | :38:10. | :38:16. | |
Helmsley, a fantastic market town. Richard III had a connection with | :38:17. | :38:23. | |
Helmsley. The last King of the House of York was Richard III, so he had a | :38:24. | :38:33. | |
connection in Helmsley Castle. Richmond Castle as well. As the | :38:34. | :38:40. | |
minister said earlier, it was successful in the British high | :38:41. | :38:42. | |
street towards winning best market town. It was on the back of the | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
fantastic efforts of the traders and the local authority in that town. | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
But coach parking was introduced in one of the car parks and it became a | :38:54. | :39:02. | |
real deterrent for coaches coming to the town, coaches carrying 50 | :39:03. | :39:08. | |
tourists. So local people went to the council and campaigned on this | :39:09. | :39:12. | |
issue and they got the charges taken away, which brought the coach | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
parties back to the town. It is a good example of how business, | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
working with local authorities, can have a positive effect and have a | :39:22. | :39:26. | |
deep understanding of some of the challenges around running small, | :39:27. | :39:32. | |
independent businesses. Of course those are positive examples, but | :39:33. | :39:35. | |
there are examples we have heard of already here today. According to the | :39:36. | :39:45. | |
RAC, ?756 million of charges and penalties in 2015 for car parks | :39:46. | :39:55. | |
across the UK, up 9% on 2015. 34% on 2010. This attacks the shoppers and | :39:56. | :40:02. | |
the businesses, businesses that are paying rates. They want service from | :40:03. | :40:07. | |
the council, yet they are seen, as we have heard before, as sitting | :40:08. | :40:13. | |
ducks, golden geese, or whatever analogy you want. A sitting duck and | :40:14. | :40:22. | |
a golden goose at the same time! We should make sure we look after that | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
golden goose and not treat it as a sitting duck! Because ultimately | :40:27. | :40:35. | |
people, shoppers and businesses will vote with their feet. In | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
conclusion... Very happy to give way. While my honourable friend is | :40:40. | :40:46. | |
on the subject of geese, doesn't he think the local authorities who take | :40:47. | :40:49. | |
the wrong approach to this are likely to cook their goose? It is a | :40:50. | :40:57. | |
very good point. It has been a fantastic debate. We have talked | :40:58. | :41:06. | |
about the foul consequences of not having good parking policies in the | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
local town. We did mention the dog and duck earlier in my honourable | :41:12. | :41:20. | |
friend's remarks. Our local pub has a connection with the Neville family | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
and it was a staging post on the web from Durham Cathedral to York | :41:27. | :41:31. | |
Minster. In conclusion, what we need is a level playing field. We must | :41:32. | :41:37. | |
always look after the interests of small business. We should not in | :41:38. | :41:43. | |
this house worship at the altar of big business. We should absolutely | :41:44. | :41:47. | |
put small business, independent retailers, at the heart of | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
everything we do and I absolutely support the provisions of this bill | :41:53. | :41:55. | |
because I think that is exactly what it does. | :41:56. | :42:01. | |
Can I remind members that it is a narrow bill and although the | :42:02. | :42:08. | |
contributions are enjoyable, it would be nice... ! I shall do my | :42:09. | :42:17. | |
best to focus on the content of the bill. I must congratulate my | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
honourable friend, the member for Bosworth for bringing in this brief, | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
but important bill, which as other members have said, could be of such | :42:28. | :42:30. | |
benefit to their constituents and mine also. It is a pleasure to | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
follow my honourable friend, the member for Thirsk and Malton, who | :42:37. | :42:38. | |
has talked about many of the benefits of the bill. Although I | :42:39. | :42:44. | |
will try and stick to the topic, I will follow his example in making | :42:45. | :42:53. | |
sure I don't duck the issues. I am very lucky to represent a | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
constituency which is peppered with historic towns and villages. I will | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
mention particularly the historic market town of Faversham and the | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
villages of Lennon and Headcorn. I mention those not because the other | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
villages are not worth visiting, but because those three or have car | :43:14. | :43:20. | |
parks in them. In the car parks are very important for allowing | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
residents to access the shops and services in each of those centres. | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
And those centres, despite the pressures on the appeal of | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
out-of-town shopping and supermarkets and the internet, those | :43:36. | :43:42. | |
centres are doing well. Just last year, Faversham was a rising star | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
award winner in the great British high-street awards. It is a town | :43:47. | :43:52. | |
that I take great pleasure in shopping in regularly. Lots of small | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
shops are providing services that can be hard to find if you go to the | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
supermarket. You are unlikely to get your pictures framed at the | :44:02. | :44:07. | |
supermarket. And they do a fabulous selection of flowers at the florist | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
which you can get made appropriately for an event. The yarn shop which | :44:13. | :44:19. | |
recently opened, because as we know, there is a boom in knitting and | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
sewing crafts, is serving that. So there are new shops opening, along | :44:24. | :44:29. | |
with a huge amount of historic sites to visit while you are there. So | :44:30. | :44:35. | |
these towns and villages are managing despite the pressures they | :44:36. | :44:41. | |
are facing, but it's not easy. Faversham had to say goodbye to our | :44:42. | :44:44. | |
sweet shop just a couple of weeks ago, which is a lovely feature of | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
the town. It was attractive to see all the sweets. That has fallen foul | :44:49. | :44:57. | |
of these pressures, as well as our attempts to lead healthier lives. | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
Perhaps the children of Faversham are not eating so many sweets now. | :45:03. | :45:06. | |
But I know my son will miss going to that when recycling to town. -- when | :45:07. | :45:13. | |
we cycle into town. I value our towns and village centres, as I know | :45:14. | :45:17. | |
many of my constituents do. It is not just for the shops that you can | :45:18. | :45:22. | |
visit, but also the way that these town centres serve as a community | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
meeting place. You will often bump into somebody you have not seen for | :45:28. | :45:30. | |
a while if you are in the Market Square in Faversham. For me, it is a | :45:31. | :45:38. | |
great way to catch up with constituents, with councillors. I | :45:39. | :45:41. | |
almost always meet not one, but several people as I go through | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
Faversham. My husband knows not to expect me back at the time I say I'm | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
going to get back because I will inevitably meet several people and | :45:50. | :45:52. | |
have long conversations as I go through. With the honourable lady | :45:53. | :45:58. | |
agree that one of the ways of keeping town centres vibrant is to | :45:59. | :46:04. | |
ensure that car parking prices can vary, relating to events going on | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
and to encourage people to go in and in particular, that they are | :46:10. | :46:15. | |
competitive as well? I thank my honourable friend for making these | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
points. This is why I am talking about the value of town and village | :46:19. | :46:26. | |
centres and the importance of them to community, because it is linked | :46:27. | :46:29. | |
to the role car parking charges play in helping towns and villages to | :46:30. | :46:35. | |
play this role. As I said, the chance meetings that you have in the | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
town and village centre are valuable part of keeping our community is | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
strong. And we know we need our communities to get stronger again. I | :46:45. | :46:51. | |
would not deny that the large out-of-town shopping centre doesn't | :46:52. | :46:53. | |
have an important role to play. I know some of my constituents will go | :46:54. | :46:58. | |
to Bluewater when they want to get clothes or do a big shop. It is not | :46:59. | :47:04. | |
in my constituency, so I am not a regular visitor that, but it has a | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
role to play. But it is not the place where you are going to bump | :47:09. | :47:11. | |
into somebody that you have not seen for a while. This is a challenge. It | :47:12. | :47:17. | |
is difficult for our towns and villages to compete with those | :47:18. | :47:23. | |
destination shopping sites and the internet, and we know that parking | :47:24. | :47:28. | |
charges are a factor in this. Other members have reported to the -- they | :47:29. | :47:34. | |
have referred the Federation of Small Businesses' report which said | :47:35. | :47:39. | |
the car parking charges are a factor in people deciding where they are | :47:40. | :47:44. | |
going to shop. In a rural area, much though we want to encourage people | :47:45. | :47:48. | |
to use other modes of transport, the reality is that the car is the way | :47:49. | :47:52. | |
most people need to travel. So car parking charges are a factor for | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
most people in deciding where they are going to shop. So for the sake | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
of our towns and villages and many of us who would like to see car | :48:02. | :48:06. | |
parking charges as low as possible, I understand that it is not as | :48:07. | :48:13. | |
simple as putting car parking charges down to the lowest possible | :48:14. | :48:16. | |
level or getting rid of them altogether. There is an element of | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
the revenue that is needed to maintain car parks. There is also | :48:21. | :48:24. | |
the point of when you have a station near the town centre. You don't want | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
your town centre car park to be used as all-day station parking. And that | :48:30. | :48:34. | |
is a risk, that it if you get rid of car parking charges, it would just | :48:35. | :48:39. | |
become a station car park and therefore, you wouldn't have the | :48:40. | :48:42. | |
footfall of people coming and going and being able to use the car park | :48:43. | :48:48. | |
to get to the shops. So it is important that there be flexibility | :48:49. | :48:52. | |
about the level that car parking charges are set, and also for a | :48:53. | :48:58. | |
council to be able to experiment and work out what works and critically, | :48:59. | :49:06. | |
to enable councils to be able to reduce car parking charges at times | :49:07. | :49:13. | |
for special events. If you have a station in a town, the idea of | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
having a very low car parking charge may be impossible to do all the | :49:18. | :49:22. | |
time, but you could for specific events reduce the charges for that | :49:23. | :49:30. | |
event. Faversham is a fantastic town for special events. My honourable | :49:31. | :49:38. | |
friend, mentioned the food festival in his constituency in Malton. | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
Faversham has a food festival and a separate beer festival. We don't | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
have to have them on the same day! It is a hop festival. I shall be | :49:47. | :49:50. | |
called out if I call it the beer festival. It is the Faversham hop | :49:51. | :49:56. | |
festival. Albeit for that festival, a lot of people come by train. You | :49:57. | :50:02. | |
may understand why! We also have the hat festival, the nautical festival, | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
because Faversham is also a nautical town, the transport festival and we | :50:08. | :50:14. | |
have markets on the first and third Saturday of the month. So there are | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
many events to come to in Faversham. Those could be days for the council | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
to drop the car parking charges, or on the other hand, it might be an | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
opportunity to experiment with dropping car parking charges on days | :50:28. | :50:33. | |
when the town is quieter and there is a way to bring people into town | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
when there is not an event going on. The point is that this bill is about | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
giving councils more flexibility to be able to do that and to test what | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
works for bringing more footfall into a town. That is why I am | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
delighted to support the bill. On the other hand, one point was made | :50:52. | :50:57. | |
today which is worthwhile, emphasising that increasing car | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
parking charges is another matter. It is important that increases the | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
car parking charges should be consulted on with rigour, because | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
increases to car parking charges are clearly a concern for residents and | :51:12. | :51:19. | |
a concern for businesses. Given what I have been saying about how car | :51:20. | :51:24. | |
parking charges affect people's decisions, increasing car parking | :51:25. | :51:27. | |
charges could be a concern for businesses and some worry that they | :51:28. | :51:30. | |
might be put out of business. So it is right that if car parking charges | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
are to be increased, there should be consultation. Something I did before | :51:35. | :51:41. | |
speaking today was check with my local councils what their thoughts | :51:42. | :51:49. | |
were about this bill. I was in touch with the chair of the transportation | :51:50. | :51:53. | |
committee of Maidstone borough council, one of the two councils in | :51:54. | :52:00. | |
my constituency and Councillor David Burton, the chair of the committee, | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
said of this bill that he was happy with it and that it would place no | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
extra burdens on local councils. So I thought that was a good thing to | :52:11. | :52:17. | |
hear. He also flagged how he thinks the excellent modern transport Bill | :52:18. | :52:27. | |
is valuable and emphasised the point that councils will have to move | :52:28. | :52:29. | |
quickly to keep up with the pace of change. I certainly welcome that my | :52:30. | :52:37. | |
local councils have been good at bringing in payment by smartphone, | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
which is another thing which can be very helpful when thinking of | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
flexibility, enabling people to pay as they leave or top up easily while | :52:46. | :52:51. | |
parking. These are all important for councils to be using to support | :52:52. | :52:56. | |
local towns and villages and the shops in them. To conclude, I very | :52:57. | :53:05. | |
much support and want to see thriving towns and villages enter | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
is. Therefore, I am delighted to support this bill. Wendy Morton. | :53:10. | :53:17. | |
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I write to support my honourable | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
friend from Bosworth's bill again today. And I congratulate him on all | :53:22. | :53:27. | |
the work he has been doing in getting the bill thus far. I am | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
sure, like others in this chamber, we all wish it is speedy passage | :53:32. | :53:39. | |
through this place, because we can understand the benefits it will | :53:40. | :53:42. | |
bring to our constituents and constituencies. I believe that this | :53:43. | :53:51. | |
bill will make a difference across the country. My honourable friend | :53:52. | :53:56. | |
used the phrase "We come into politics to make a difference", and | :53:57. | :53:59. | |
this bill can make a difference to so many people in a small, but | :54:00. | :54:07. | |
simple way. The aim of the bill is to make it easier for local | :54:08. | :54:09. | |
authorities to lower their parking charges, to promote the economic | :54:10. | :54:16. | |
vitality of town centres allowing local authorities to react more | :54:17. | :54:19. | |
quickly to market changes, putting them on an even footing with the | :54:20. | :54:25. | |
private sector and promoting parking flexibility, something we have heard | :54:26. | :54:28. | |
so much about today, by allowing local authorities at short notice to | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
provide free or discounted parking to support town centre events. It is | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
also intended to provide local authorities to consult interested | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
parties if they are seeking to increase the cost of parking charges | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
and to ensure the impacts on the towns are considered. The it was | :54:46. | :54:52. | |
described earlier as the Santa clause Bill, but this bill is not | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
just for Christmas. I believe it is for all year round. I apologise, I | :54:57. | :55:01. | |
needed to get that one in today! But it does seem a little crazy. My | :55:02. | :55:08. | |
honourable friend is not in her place at the moment but she alluded | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
to the fact that why haven't we sought to change the law in this | :55:13. | :55:15. | |
regard before? It does seem crazy that currently, if the local | :55:16. | :55:21. | |
authority wanted to offer free parking in the run-up to Christmas | :55:22. | :55:23. | |
or Thursday night for late-night shopping or four a special event, it | :55:24. | :55:32. | |
would cost them to do so. Because of the requirement to make all the | :55:33. | :55:38. | |
necessary advertisements. That seems hardly an incentive for a local | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
authority to go down the route. It has almost been a barrier to them to | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
make those changes. In today's economic climate, we have heard a | :55:48. | :55:51. | |
lot about the rise of internet shopping, the rise of the | :55:52. | :55:53. | |
out-of-town shopping centres. They all have their role to play. But it | :55:54. | :56:00. | |
strikes me that this bill offers a simple and cost-effective way to | :56:01. | :56:07. | |
enable councils to effect change. It is not about saying they must lower | :56:08. | :56:12. | |
all the car parking charges, much as we would all like that. It is about | :56:13. | :56:17. | |
giving them the flexibility to lower our parking charges when they feel | :56:18. | :56:21. | |
it is in the interests of that local community to do so, taking account | :56:22. | :56:30. | |
of community needs. I see it is almost a tool in the tool box of | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
local authorities. I believe it means that the councils can win | :56:36. | :56:37. | |
because of that reduction in the cost of advertising. Residents can | :56:38. | :56:43. | |
win because it saves them money and crucially, retailers and local high | :56:44. | :56:49. | |
streets can win as well. I understand that car parking revenue | :56:50. | :56:55. | |
is important to local authorities. I made the point earlier in one of my | :56:56. | :56:58. | |
interventions about the need to strike that balance. But sometimes, | :56:59. | :57:04. | |
by reducing car parking charges for an event, say, a local authority can | :57:05. | :57:10. | |
get extra revenue overall from businesses because if they have a | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
thriving town centre, they get the income from business rates. | :57:15. | :57:22. | |
I really believe local authorities will be able to react quicker, | :57:23. | :57:28. | |
support local events and businesses, support local residents, and that is | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
what this bill is fundamentally about. We are unfortunately in my | :57:34. | :57:39. | |
constituency, we do at least have some free parking. I think in | :57:40. | :57:47. | |
Aldridge Village Centre in particular. Where you are able to | :57:48. | :57:53. | |
offer that, it really does encourage people to go in and shop locally. It | :57:54. | :57:59. | |
is something I know members on both sides of this house are often | :58:00. | :58:03. | |
speaking of and are often encouraging people and residents to | :58:04. | :58:08. | |
do so. If you pop into the local shops, you do your banking, you go | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
to the post office. In Aldridge you would go and have a cup of coffee or | :58:14. | :58:18. | |
a sweet and you spend that little bit more time in the town centre, | :58:19. | :58:23. | |
all adding to that vibrancy. I think this bill is about cutting down | :58:24. | :58:30. | |
bureaucracy. Something else that we on this side of the chamber often | :58:31. | :58:34. | |
talk about. This bill will remove that you're crazy. Put simply, it is | :58:35. | :58:40. | |
a no-nonsense bill, it is a common-sense bill, and I will be | :58:41. | :58:50. | |
supporting it. It is my pleasure to add to others the congratulations to | :58:51. | :58:54. | |
the honourable member for Boswell for bringing forward what is | :58:55. | :58:59. | |
unusually a very simple bill with a simple game that affects a great | :59:00. | :59:05. | |
number of people. I welcome the fact it is easier for our local councils | :59:06. | :59:09. | |
to sort their car parking, but I would like to talk about enabling | :59:10. | :59:15. | |
them to have a sense of place. That is really important. The honourable | :59:16. | :59:22. | |
member for Thirsk alluded to it, as did the honourable member for | :59:23. | :59:25. | |
Halesowen when he said it was not a one size fits all solution. A sense | :59:26. | :59:32. | |
of place is very much understanding your locality, your businesses, your | :59:33. | :59:36. | |
residence, and those people who come to your town. Our towns are | :59:37. | :59:41. | |
changing, which is why local authorities need flexibility. In | :59:42. | :59:48. | |
Bury St Edmunds we have residents living alongside the businesses and | :59:49. | :59:51. | |
the tourist attractions and a vast number of tourists come to our town. | :59:52. | :59:59. | |
As I mentioned, we are getting towards 2 million parking slots in a | :00:00. | :00:04. | |
town of 42,000 people per annum. That shows how popular we are, but | :00:05. | :00:11. | |
it also shows we need to have local flexibility and local | :00:12. | :00:15. | |
accountability. That is different to my town down the road at Stowmarket. | :00:16. | :00:23. | |
They have a less vibrant centre and they will need to apply different | :00:24. | :00:26. | |
measures to how they are going to accommodate their businesses and | :00:27. | :00:31. | |
stimulate a vibrant economy that is right for them. As the honourable | :00:32. | :00:37. | |
member for Faversham said, this is about building communities and about | :00:38. | :00:43. | |
people having time to go in and actually enjoy where they live and | :00:44. | :00:50. | |
actually... Of course. She makes a very good point about the different | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
types of town she has in her constituency. Isn't that the point | :00:56. | :01:03. | |
about this bill? It requires local authorities to work alongside | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
businesses to develop the right strategies or parking to make sure | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
they make the best of the opportunities whatever the different | :01:12. | :01:17. | |
conurbation is? Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. It is actually | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
the fact that in Bury St Edmunds I have a 6% occupancy rate in the | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
town, which he will know for retail is very low. 50% of what the | :01:28. | :01:35. | |
national average is. It won the award for having the best Christmas | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
fare anywhere in the country this year. It has a plethora of things we | :01:39. | :01:45. | |
can enjoy. It also has its own Cathedral. Tonight I will be | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
hopefully attending at the Theatre Royal Northanger Abbey in one of the | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
only Regency theatres in the country. It is fantastic. But I also | :01:55. | :02:01. | |
have great things in Stowmarket, but it is different and we need to | :02:02. | :02:07. | |
understand how this bill can facilitate that. One thing I would | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
like to ask the Minister, and perhaps he could write to me if | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
today is not the place for us to tease this out, is that in my | :02:15. | :02:22. | |
particular area I have a County Council, a Borough Council, a | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
District Council, three town councils, and very often it is only | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
the good working of those councils together that facilitate solutions | :02:31. | :02:37. | |
because some of the complexity of these different authorities owning | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
different car parts and so on. When decisions want to be made, for | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
example in Stowmarket, when the town council wanted to have a cheaper | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
parking rate for two hours, that was a collaboration with the District | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
Council and the town council. Sometimes in these multiple tiers we | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
have a complexity that even a simple instrument like this bill perhaps | :03:03. | :03:09. | |
does not address. It might be that there is a little more work to be | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
done in order to facilitate those areas that are not as simple as a | :03:14. | :03:20. | |
metropolitan area in order for them to have conversations to facilitate | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
quicker than is possible at the moment changes in their local | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
environment to their car parking, particularly permanent in an area | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
like Bury where we have the Contra problem to a lot of towns. We very | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
often do not have enough car parking spaces. It would be really good for | :03:40. | :03:46. | |
us to perhaps address issues like funding multistorey car parks and so | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
on and being able to drive initiatives like that which would | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
allow us greater parking, so our town centres are sclerotic. When | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
town centres are blocked, it is my residence who suffer. People park | :04:02. | :04:09. | |
without thinking somewhere in the town and residents cannot access | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
their houses. Permits are a good use, but that stops people parking | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
for business, so that is what I mean about a whole environment. I agree | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
with the honourable lady because I think there are issues with this | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
bill. Perhaps it should not have come to the third Reading today and | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
maybe we should have spent longer in committee ironing out some of these | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
issues? I thank the honourable lady for her intervention. No, I think | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
the beauty of this bill and why I would like to see it go through | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
today is its simplicity. But we live in a very fast moving environment, a | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
very fast paced environment, where things constantly change around us. | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
My point is that where we have a complexity of local government with | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
different authorities having responsibility over car parking, | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
maybe this is something we should look to address as we go forward. | :05:06. | :05:12. | |
Would she like me recall that there was a report stage on this bill | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
earlier today and that would have been the opportunity if anyone had | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
objections to the wording to make some changes, as I suggested myself? | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
I could not agree more with the honourable member for Torbay. As | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
there has been a plethora of people speaking on the bill today there has | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
been somewhat of a dearth of those on the opposite side saying what | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
benefits a simple bill like this could bring, but also perhaps | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
challenging, as is appropriate, at that reading. I am listening to the | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
honourable lady and I do think she is pushing her luck. A lot of us on | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
this site are very angry about the fact that the bill is being talked | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
out by her and her friends on the government backbenchers today. If | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
she wants to do that, she can play games, but please do not criticise | :06:07. | :06:13. | |
us. I do apologise. It was merely a statement of fact. However... Whilst | :06:14. | :06:24. | |
we are considering this bill, it is as others have said, incumbent on us | :06:25. | :06:31. | |
to look at where we are going in the future. As I conclude, I would like | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
to mention my own town council in Bury St Edmunds who have usefully, | :06:37. | :06:44. | |
in order to help ameliorate some of the problems around from the car | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
parking situation in my town, they have actually recruited some PS oh, | :06:49. | :06:59. | |
Emma Howell, to regain control over civil parking enforcement from the | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
police. She has single-handedly authorised over 100 civil parking | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
orders in her first few weeks, including the leader of the town | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
council who recruited her! She is indeed delivering greater monitoring | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
powers to local councils in order to exercise local management to which I | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
do hope this bill will add as we go forward. Thank you, Madam Deputy | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
Speaker. I am conscious of the time and what has been said already, so I | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
will keep my remarks rather brief. When I withdrew my amendment, I | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
still think this bill is right to go forward in the form it is in and it | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
will give a valuable opportunity for local councils to vary charges | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
downwards without going through the consultation process. It is rightly | :07:54. | :08:00. | |
there, but it is somewhat bizarre that under current legislation the | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
council has to spend money to try and do something that will cost it | :08:04. | :08:10. | |
money. In terms of this, I think it will be very beneficial bill and | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
will deal with some of the issues are used to encounter when I was in | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
local government myself. I will not go through a whole list of the | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
festivals and events in Torbay. I did that during the report states. | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
But the key thing I would like to hear from the Minister is how when | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
this bill goes forward, how they will be working with councils to | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
make sure it is used. Sometimes in legislation on a Friday, legislation | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
is not something to do for the fun of it, it is something to do that | :08:44. | :08:50. | |
will have an impact. One is interested to see how the local | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
authorities will use this power and how they promote it when it is | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
brought into effect. I hope this bill gets a third reading, I hope we | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
do not have to have a division to achieve that. I hope this is taken | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
forward, it is a bill in the right form and it is perfectly acceptable | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
and should achieve its third reading today. I am pleased to speak in | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
support of the bill's third reading. I would like to start by | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
congratulating my honourable friend and member for Bosworth who is | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
bringing in this bill in his third year in this house. I wish him well | :09:31. | :09:38. | |
today with getting this bill through to third reading, hopefully | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
unopposed, and to the bill going down to the other place and | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
hopefully not being amended. I also understand it is my honourable | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
friend for Bosworth's first Private member's bill. As somebody who not | :09:54. | :10:04. | |
too long ago was on the backbenches, I was never fortunate during that | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
time to secure a private member's bill, generally because I never | :10:09. | :10:17. | |
appeared far enough up the ballot. I never had the chance to bring | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
forward such an important piece of legislation as my honourable friend | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
has. So I congratulate him. As I indicated that the bill's second | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
reading, parking remains an issue that is very familiar. My | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
ministerial postbag remains very busy. The Royal Mail certainly | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
continues to enjoy the rewards of the numerous missives that I receive | :10:42. | :10:48. | |
on parking and in the three months since we started this process in | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
November it certainly remains the case that I still am receiving a | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
significant level of correspondence in this regard. High streets and | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
town centres are essential parts of the fabric of our lives and are the | :11:03. | :11:08. | |
social core of our communities. The need for affordable parking to | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
access town centres is critical and to the continued growth of our high | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
streets. The previous government recognised this in a number of | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
reforms brought forward on parking facilities owned by councils. The | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
previous government brought forward reforms to make it mandatory for | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
local authorities to give ten minute grace periods for all on street | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
parking bays and all off street parking bays. This gives town | :11:35. | :11:41. | |
centres and consumers greater flexibility to allow them to | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
complete their business in the town without having to worry about | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
feeding the meter. The use of CCTV camera cars by local authorities | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
that were being used as revenue generating devices was also a cause | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
for concern, that is why an addition to grace periods was good. | :12:01. | :12:10. | |
Individuals can have a degree of certainty that when they get a | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
ticket they will know about it on the day. | :12:14. | :12:23. | |
The government believes in town hall transparency and believes that the | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
transparency, believes that transparency is the foundation of | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
local accountability. It is the key that gives people the tools they | :12:34. | :12:36. | |
need to hold their local councils to account. Since 2010, transparency | :12:37. | :12:43. | |
and town halls has improved greatly. The Conservative led coalition | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
government changed the rules on attending town hall meetings to | :12:49. | :12:51. | |
enable the press and public to report on more meetings, including | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
being able to film proceedings at council meetings. More than that, we | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
have also changed the rules on what information local authorities must | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
make public, because transparency is good for the health of democracy. In | :13:08. | :13:15. | |
2011, the government issued a code of recommended practice for local | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
authorities on data transparency come to place more power in | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
citizens' hands, to increase democratic accountability and make | :13:23. | :13:25. | |
it easier for people to contribute to local decision-making and help | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
shape local public services. The scope and content of the 2011 code | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
of recommended practice for local authorities on data transparency was | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
reviewed in 2012. Was my department consulting on a proposed update of | :13:42. | :13:48. | |
the code. As a result of the consultation, the government | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
published a revised local government transparency code in 2014 and | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
further updated the code in February 20 15. Since October 2014, | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
compliance with part two of the code has been mandatory. The local | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
government transparency code 2015 requires certain authorities to | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
publish certain information, including about parking. We | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
encourage local authorities to produce an annual report about their | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
enforcement activities within six months of the end of each financial | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
year. The report should cover financial statistical and other data | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
reflecting the revenues received from car parking operations. The | :14:31. | :14:33. | |
Department for Transport require data to help develop parking policy, | :14:34. | :14:40. | |
but there is a concern that the data being supplied is not as | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
comprehensive as it should be, and most local authorities do not feel | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
obligated to do so. Accordingly, when we consulted last year about | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
updates to the transparency code, we proposed that the requirements to | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
publish data relating to the local authorities' parking counts be | :14:59. | :15:01. | |
expanded to include greater detail about parking charges. We also | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
propose that local authorities should publish statistics about the | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
enforcement of parking restrictions by that particular local authority. | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
Specifically, we propose that local authorities be required to provide | :15:17. | :15:23. | |
data on total income and expenditure on parking account, kept under | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
section 55 of the Road traffic regulation 1984, and off-street | :15:29. | :15:31. | |
parking charges and penalty charges, which are not covered under section | :15:32. | :15:38. | |
55 of the 1980 Four Rd traffic act regulation. In that particular point | :15:39. | :15:41. | |
has been raised by a number of honourable members during this | :15:42. | :15:44. | |
debate. We propose that local authorities be required to provide a | :15:45. | :15:53. | |
breakdown of income, of on street parking charges come on street | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
penalty charges, off Street car parking charges and off street | :15:59. | :16:00. | |
penalty charges. The responses to this proposal were enlightening but | :16:01. | :16:09. | |
not altogether surprising. They confirmed parking data is a great | :16:10. | :16:12. | |
interest to the public and of course, why wouldn't it be? Because | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
after council tax, parking charges are arguably one of the most visible | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
ways that local authorities take money from the public. Now, turning | :16:23. | :16:31. | |
to my honourable friend's bill and how it recognises that on the one | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
hand councils need flexibility is, it also recognises the need to | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
involve local communities in its decision-making process. The Parking | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
Places (Variation of Charges) Bill offers a real opportunity for small | :16:46. | :16:51. | |
but very sensible reforms to local authority car parks. The bill will | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
give the government powers to scrap the bureaucratic requirements on | :16:56. | :16:58. | |
local authorities if they wish to lower their parking charges. This | :16:59. | :17:01. | |
offers real opportunity for councils to take a flexible approach in | :17:02. | :17:08. | |
supporting their high streets. For example, by responding to be | :17:09. | :17:10. | |
opportunity of town Centre festivals, of which a number have | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
been referenced by honourable members this morning. One thing I | :17:15. | :17:21. | |
have learned from my involvement with the great British high street | :17:22. | :17:26. | |
competition in 2015 is the real passion that still exists in this | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
country for high streets and town centres. But while there is a need | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
for councils to offer flexibility is in respect of parking charges to | :17:38. | :17:40. | |
support their town centres, it's important that we recognise the | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
charging levels are quite often a significant concern for town centre | :17:46. | :17:48. | |
businesses. The government therefore thinks it's fit and proper that | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
councils are responsive to local concern before the King to increase | :17:53. | :17:59. | |
charges. My honourable friend's bill provides for consultation and | :18:00. | :18:02. | |
requirements but if councils want to raise their charges on an existing | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
traffic order I believe it's sensible that this reform balances | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
the needs of the local authority to set a fair pricing policy, but one | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
that also takes into account the views, and quite rightly, as local | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
people. So just to conclude, I appreciate the points that have been | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
made today. I'm grateful for the way the House has handled the bill, and | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
I want to thank the many colleagues who have made significant | :18:33. | :18:39. | |
contributions, and as I said when we started this bill, the bill does | :18:40. | :18:42. | |
represent a small but needed reform to help deliver a more effective | :18:43. | :18:48. | |
parking model that is supportive of our great British high streets and | :18:49. | :18:51. | |
town centres and I congratulate my honourable friend for Bosworth | :18:52. | :18:54. | |
making it this far and hope this bill ultimately becomes an act of | :18:55. | :19:06. | |
Parliament. Madame Dev disfigure, I welcome you to your place -- Madame | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
Deputy Speaker. I'd like to thank all colleagues here today for | :19:12. | :19:18. | |
contributing to the debate and wish this bill well on its travels to the | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
other place, the House of Lords. And I'd like to if I may make this point | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
to their noble lordships landlady ships. This bill passed the Commons | :19:29. | :19:34. | |
unamended. There were no amendments that committee stage and there were | :19:35. | :19:40. | |
discussions with the opposition and there was agreement, and I say to | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
the honourable lady on the front bench opposite, who expressed some | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
concerns just now, there were opportunities here to load this bill | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
was a lot more material and it was kept very narrow because in my long | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
experience of Fridays it was not going to proceed unless it was very | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
narrow. Madam Deputy Speaker, if I may continue with an earlier play on | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
words, I hope the noble Lords will get their ducks in a row. I hope | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
they won't add to them. We've quite enough here. It would be instructive | :20:16. | :20:23. | |
for councils up and down the land if they study this debate. There have | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
been some wonderful contributions will stop I'd just like to become | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
two or three points that have come up. My honourable friend for Thirsk | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
and Malton spoke with the experience of starting and expanding a small | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
business. I thought the point that he made about the power of one hour | :20:42. | :20:48. | |
free parking and then an additional 60p per hour was very persuasive. | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
Many councils up and down the land should notice that. The honourable | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
lady for Faversham in Kent and my honourable friend and the honourable | :20:57. | :21:05. | |
lady for Bury St Edmunds touched on festivals and the importance of | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
having special events that draw people into towns was focused on in | :21:10. | :21:16. | |
this debate, and of course that's where you need flexibility in | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
parking. Madame Deputy Speaker, I thank the members of the committee | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
for their help and members I've already thanked this afternoon. I'd | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
like to thank the two ministers who have helped me, who have spoken, my | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
honourable friend the member for Croydon Central for housing plan is | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
to minister spoke -- the member spoke in committee, my honourable | :21:41. | :21:43. | |
friend for local government, by political neighbour in | :21:44. | :21:45. | |
Leicestershire, the member for Nuneaton has spoken today and as | :21:46. | :21:51. | |
I've already said, I've had the support of the opposition. I'd also | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
like to thank my honourable friend for Nuneaton for allowing the access | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
to some of his officials. I know it's not normal to thank them, but | :22:01. | :22:02. | |
I'm going to thank Philip Dunkley and Thomas Adams for their | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
assistance and eight making sure that I was properly briefed so | :22:06. | :22:12. | |
Madame Speaker it is with great happiness and surprise that I find | :22:13. | :22:16. | |
myself in a situation that I have a private member's bill that can | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
affect every town, every city and every large village in the country, | :22:22. | :22:24. | |
and I hope it processes through the House of Lords. The question is the | :22:25. | :22:33. | |
Bill be now read the third time. As many are of the opinion, say "aye". | :22:34. | :22:40. | |
To the contrary, "no". The ayes have it. Not amended at the Public Bill | :22:41. | :22:52. | |
Committee to be considered. We begin with amendment one, with which it | :22:53. | :22:58. | |
will be convenient to consider amendments to three. | :22:59. | :23:12. | |
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And if it's in order I would like to | :23:13. | :23:20. | |
speak to both of my amendments, one after the other, because I do | :23:21. | :23:26. | |
appreciate that time is marching on. But Madame Deputy Speaker, just to | :23:27. | :23:29. | |
be clear, I have supported my honourable friend for Torbay's bill, | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
I was at second reading. I was also at the Bill committee stage. But | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
there were a couple of points that as I went through Bill committee and | :23:39. | :23:41. | |
on reflection I felt were worthy of a little bit more probing, as the | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
detail was not on the face of the bill. In reference to my first | :23:48. | :23:55. | |
Amendment, regarding public consultation. This is a very | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
important Bill will stop it stretches across many, many | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
different facets, reaching into potentially many different | :24:04. | :24:06. | |
communities. And the government at second reading indicated it will | :24:07. | :24:09. | |
conduct a form of consultation and review with all the relevant | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
stakeholders, on the technical details of this bill. But given the | :24:13. | :24:19. | |
technical nature of the Bill, I am seeking some reassurances from the | :24:20. | :24:25. | |
Minister, hence the insertion of, after public consultation. Because | :24:26. | :24:28. | |
for some very small community radio stations that are often run by | :24:29. | :24:35. | |
community volunteers, I really want to be certain, Madam Deputy Speaker, | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
that they are part of this consultation process. It would be | :24:41. | :24:43. | |
wrong if they were precluded and left out at the expense of the | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
larger ones. And now, turning to my second amendment, again at Bill | :24:50. | :24:56. | |
committee stages there were some concerns raised, in particular from | :24:57. | :25:02. | |
the community media Association about the nature of the Bill. So in | :25:03. | :25:08. | |
considering under my second amendment, I'm concerned that the | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
provision in the draft order, subsection four, paragraph C, that | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
the order may require a small-scale radio multiplex services to be | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
provided on a non-commercial basis is not a sufficient guarantee that | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
the services will be operated primarily for public and community | :25:26. | :25:31. | |
benefit. Second reading, we had so much about the benefits of community | :25:32. | :25:34. | |
radio and the way they can really get into some of those often very | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
hard to reach communities that on both sides of the House we are all | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
too familiar with, so that's what I'm seeking in this amendment. | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
There's a high risk where a small-scale radio multiplex services | :25:48. | :25:50. | |
run on a commercial basis that charges to small-scale and community | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
radio content providers could remain excessive, and that opportunities to | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
reduce the cost for small-scale and community radio operators through | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
sale of spare capacity would be lost and this would be ashamed. A | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
commercially operated small-scale radio multipacks operator may be | :26:09. | :26:11. | |
inclined to populate available capacity with content from those | :26:12. | :26:18. | |
providers prepared to pay the highest rate, rather than content of | :26:19. | :26:21. | |
the greatest public value. For example, content providers that have | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
very low fixed costs, such as those providing semiautomated | :26:26. | :26:26. | |
predominantly music services may be better placed to afford high costs | :26:27. | :26:34. | |
of transmission and content providers who invest in original | :26:35. | :26:42. | |
local content including speech and local journalism. Again, those | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
community stations that go to the heart of our communities. My | :26:46. | :26:47. | |
amendments produce -- proposes it be required for public and community | :26:48. | :26:50. | |
benefit rather than for commercial reasons, in order to favour existing | :26:51. | :26:56. | |
community radio providers or consortia of small-scale local and | :26:57. | :26:58. | |
community media to come together to operate the multiplex. | :26:59. | :27:05. | |
This would not preclude a small-scale, local, commercial radio | :27:06. | :27:13. | |
service to play a role to hold the multiplex licence and two operated | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
on such a base that local services, including small-scale, radio | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
services, are provided with a free cost base and any income generated | :27:25. | :27:37. | |
will be there. I want to be really sure that we are making sure that we | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
reach out to those parts of the community that really benefit from | :27:43. | :27:49. | |
community radio. I have a speech I was going to do today which almost | :27:50. | :27:55. | |
echoes exactly what she is saying. Can I say I wholeheartedly agree | :27:56. | :27:58. | |
with the principles she is espousing. I will not do my speech | :27:59. | :28:06. | |
in the hope that we will get to my honourable friend's speech later, | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
but I wholeheartedly accept what she is saying. I am grateful, I was just | :28:11. | :28:15. | |
about to sit down, be reassured. I am hoping my friend, the honourable | :28:16. | :28:23. | |
member for Torbay, will give us the assurances we are looking for and | :28:24. | :28:25. | |
hopefully I will be able to withdraw my amendment. Question is that | :28:26. | :28:34. | |
amendment one be made. The question is that amendment one be made. I | :28:35. | :28:44. | |
apologise, Madam Deputy Speaker, I am a novice at this. I would like to | :28:45. | :28:50. | |
also just very quickly add my amendment. I was here for the second | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
reading and so for me this is episode two, a little similar to my | :28:56. | :29:02. | |
honourable friend from Brownhill. I wish to probe a little bit further | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
for community radio. I spoke about the importance of it and in | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
particular the amendment, which is that the Secretary of State is not | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
to make an order under this section in relation to small-scale radio | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
multiplex services, with the exception of conditions to provide a | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
small-scale capacity to provide services of a description set out in | :29:26. | :29:32. | |
262. I want to know there is going to be enough space for community | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
radio in the system, in layman's language. When Ofcom went out and | :29:38. | :29:43. | |
did their trialling what was quite amazing was that you had within the | :29:44. | :29:50. | |
pie chart existing local commercial radio 9.2%. Existing local community | :29:51. | :29:57. | |
stations taking up 18.3%, but new format is made up a staggering | :29:58. | :30:04. | |
72.5%, which showed there was a real appetite for community stations. I | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
think this is something we have to look at and take into account with | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
this bill to make sure that we have given adequate provision. What it | :30:14. | :30:19. | |
tells us is there is a thirst from those people who want to serve their | :30:20. | :30:26. | |
local community. Of course. On top of what she is saying, do the same | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
report said that not only was there a real appetite for it, the report | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
also said it was technically possible and also economically | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
sustainable. There is evidence within the report to say that that | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
is the case. I thank the honourable member for adding weight to my | :30:47. | :30:49. | |
desire to probe further to see whether we can make sure that we | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
have facilitated local community radio to have its place rightfully | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
and vibrantly at the centre of its communities. We also know that | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
Ofcom, who trialled this, are keen to deliver the provision. I want to | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
know with this amendment to understand the access there will be | :31:12. | :31:16. | |
to access the multiplexes specifically. In and around our | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
communities things like forces radios, hugely important to a huge | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
sector of the community, universities running radios that | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
reach out to students, churches and cathedrals, but we also have new | :31:31. | :31:36. | |
forms of media and local groups and enterprises that want to reach in | :31:37. | :31:42. | |
and inform their local communities. They all work of minimal budgets, | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
usually on a charitable status, and if they cannot get the space in | :31:48. | :31:53. | |
order to access listeners, what is the point? My amendment is largely | :31:54. | :32:02. | |
to probe and to ask that question. Surely we can ring fenced a little | :32:03. | :32:11. | |
bit for the people who need it? Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, it | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
is a pleasure to be speaking on report stage. I will be urging the | :32:16. | :32:21. | |
two members to withdraw their amendments. Starting with amendment | :32:22. | :32:28. | |
one, I appreciate the intention of this amendment and I also noted the | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
comments from the honourable member for West Ham as well, to be sure | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
that local communities can have their views heard when a licence | :32:38. | :32:40. | |
application is made. I hope the honourable member will consider | :32:41. | :32:45. | |
withdrawing it, bearing the whole intention of this bill is to create | :32:46. | :32:51. | |
a lighter touch registration scheme for the smaller operators. This is | :32:52. | :32:57. | |
about small, commercial stations and community groups being able to | :32:58. | :33:03. | |
broadcast. Is it therefore important that these multiplexes are not | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
dominated by large media companies, that we do not end up with | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
monopolies, people holding several licenses, to make sure there is | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
availability on those multiplexes for those stations, which is the | :33:18. | :33:24. | |
basis of this bill? I will be coming on a bit later when I make comments | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
on amendment number three and deal with that point in detail. The whole | :33:30. | :33:35. | |
idea is to give community stations and ability to go on DA B. | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
Theoretically there is an ability, but at the moment the scale is so | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
large that very few operators in a community station would ever get to | :33:47. | :33:53. | |
that scale. In London the local area is London, so a community station | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
would find it extremely difficult because they would have to pay the | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
cost of transmission to London. A sponsor in Croydon is unlikely to be | :34:04. | :34:07. | |
of any great relevance to somebody living in Barking and Dagenham. This | :34:08. | :34:14. | |
bill must be seen as the first part of a three stage process. The first | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
is the bill, which allows the legal framework for the government to act | :34:19. | :34:24. | |
and without it the DA B community sector will not exist. It will | :34:25. | :34:28. | |
disappear. It also includes a very limited ability to amend primary | :34:29. | :34:34. | |
legislation by the affirmative procedure and this reflects what was | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
done with community radio in 2004 and local TV in 2012. Strikingly | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
similar circumstances and purposes. We have to be careful in terms of | :34:47. | :34:52. | |
those types of provision, but in this instance it is so strikingly | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
similar to precedence parliaments have set before it makes sense to do | :34:57. | :35:02. | |
it on this one. The next would be to create the structure and the third | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
and final stage would be Ofcom issuing licences to the individual | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
multiplex operators. In terms of the second stage and the amendment | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
talking about adding consultation, the minister, the honourable member | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
for West Suffolk, has already confirmed a second reading that the | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
detail of how a licensing scheme should operate and it will be | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
subject to a full consultation by the government. It will enable the | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
government to take account of different views from community radio | :35:35. | :35:38. | |
and commercial radio and ensure the right protections are in place, to | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
ensure licenses are taken up. The position of community stations are | :35:44. | :35:53. | |
protected. On the specific point of consultation, can I stress the | :35:54. | :35:56. | |
importance of making sure that consultation process is sufficiently | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
long enough to allow those radio stations to be able to feed in. I am | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
not expecting a set time frame today, but I want to stress that | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
point. My understanding is the government will have a suitable | :36:12. | :36:18. | |
timescale and groups like the community media Association are | :36:19. | :36:21. | |
already aware of the bill and its provisions and many operators will | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
be starting to think about the type of comments you want to make in | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
relation to the consultation. The honourable member is welcome to stop | :36:32. | :36:38. | |
me again if I am wrong, but it applies to orders made under the | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
bill rather than to require statutory consultation for an | :36:44. | :36:46. | |
individual licence. I see percent from somebody in a sedentary | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
position. Just for clarity, I confirm that. I therefore hope | :36:52. | :36:58. | |
members will accept that if every order under this act was required by | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
statute to be subject to a full consultation, this would strike at | :37:04. | :37:05. | |
the very heart of the intention behind this bill. The intention is | :37:06. | :37:11. | |
to create a legislator framework that would be adaptable and it may | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
not always be appropriate for every order made to be preceded by a full | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
public consultation. The government needs to have the flexibility to act | :37:20. | :37:25. | |
quickly and correct deficiencies or make minor and technical changes | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
without having to wait for the conclusion of a consultation, a | :37:30. | :37:35. | |
consultation that would make little sense. Technology is moving on | :37:36. | :37:44. | |
significantly. Internet stations are able to broadcast with no licence, | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
but we have to bear in mind with technology moving on, it is right | :37:49. | :37:54. | |
the government has an ability to reflect that, but more serious | :37:55. | :37:57. | |
changes would need to be the subject of consultation. If we say any order | :37:58. | :38:03. | |
under this power needs to have a consultation that could inhibit and | :38:04. | :38:13. | |
they would be consultations that very few people would wish to engage | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
with. Effectively it is about technical details. My understanding | :38:18. | :38:24. | |
is that once the initial consultation is complete, the | :38:25. | :38:26. | |
government was said out the details licensing arrangements that will be | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
intense subject to debate by both houses of parliament before coming | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
into effect. There is also parallel work with the government to do with | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
Ofcom in relation to the functioning of the new regime. I hope that will | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
give the honourable lady the explanation she needs as to what | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
consultation will happen and I hope she agrees to withdraw her | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
amendment. I fully appreciate the sentiment behind the second | :38:57. | :39:05. | |
amendment. I hope for the reasons I am about to separate the honourable | :39:06. | :39:08. | |
member will also agree to that amendment. It already enables the | :39:09. | :39:15. | |
Secretary of State to allow small-scale, multiplex services to | :39:16. | :39:24. | |
be supplied by non-commercial basis. It must seek to provide an | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
infrastructure to an area. We must be clear that multiplex is about | :39:29. | :39:35. | |
providing infrastructure for small-scale operations. It is not | :39:36. | :39:41. | |
the individual services you would chew into, although you need the | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
infrastructure for them to exist. Part of the objective behind the | :39:46. | :39:48. | |
amendment is already provided for in the bill. | :39:49. | :39:59. | |
I believe there are likely to be opposing views in future | :40:00. | :40:06. | |
consultations as to whether services in multiplexes should include those | :40:07. | :40:09. | |
being run on a commercial basis and I would not want to prejudge the | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
consultation by closing off this option in the bill. Whilst it is not | :40:14. | :40:20. | |
a specific aim, any future move to have a totally digital broadcast | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
system for radio would require an option for small-scale, commercial | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
stations to move onto DA B. The current system does not do that as | :40:30. | :40:33. | |
is evidenced by the lack of growth we have seen of local stations going | :40:34. | :40:39. | |
on to this currently existing multiplexes. The evidence from the | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
trials indicates unique radio services being provided and the | :40:44. | :40:55. | |
breakdown is where 18.3% for existing community stations, 9.2% | :40:56. | :40:58. | |
for an existing commercial station, and new formats were 72.5%. I hope | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
this will give the honourable ladies some comfort that stations are | :41:04. | :41:09. | |
getting onto DA B when this type of structure is in place as we have | :41:10. | :41:16. | |
seen in the trial schemes. As mentioned earlier, the detail of how | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
the new regime should operate will be subject to full consultation and | :41:21. | :41:28. | |
the details will be subject to both houses of parliament, giving an | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
opportunity to members to ensure that these objectives are included. | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
There are likely to be a number of areas that the government will need | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
to receive views on, for example on the number of licences each person | :41:43. | :41:49. | |
or organisation can hold. As was mentioned by the amendment that was | :41:50. | :41:56. | |
not selected for debate, I recognise these are the issues that the | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
community media Association has raised. They are important issues. I | :42:01. | :42:15. | |
accept that. But at this stage it is right the government maintains an | :42:16. | :42:18. | |
open mind and I would urge members to resist this amendment. | :42:19. | :42:25. | |
When we're discussing this bill, it's the fact previous legislation | :42:26. | :42:32. | |
is now up inflexible for an era when technology has moved on | :42:33. | :42:35. | |
significantly. Turning to amendment number three, submitted by the | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
honourable member for Bury St Edmunds, I again hope the member | :42:40. | :42:43. | |
will consider withdrawing it for the reasons I will shortly set out. I | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
can totally appreciate the intention behind it, reserving space for | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
community stations, and I suspect this may be partly motivated by the | :42:52. | :42:56. | |
superb work done by British forces broadcasting service at a number of | :42:57. | :42:59. | |
bases around the UK, given the honourable member's Strong work in | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
the Ministry of Defence. It would be natural that these stations should | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
be able to migrate onto DAB if they choose to and I'm clear this is | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
about choice in this bill, there is no compunction for anyone to use | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
small-scale DAB multiplex rather than a traditional license. However, | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
if we were going to open all digital solution we need to give them a | :43:23. | :43:24. | |
practical opportunity to do that. The problem with this amendment is | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
it would require the government by statute to disk up -- to adopt a | :43:29. | :43:36. | |
position which would prejudge the consultation for preserving the | :43:37. | :43:38. | |
capacity for community stations and I want to see this Bill retains the | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
maximum flexibility in creating the new regime that will follow it. I | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
think members have to have in mind there are hundreds of potential | :43:48. | :43:51. | |
locations for small-scale multiplexes and some may not be | :43:52. | :43:55. | |
viable, specifically reserved space, or there could be operations making | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
it unnecessary in a particular multiplex's case. I want Ofcom to be | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
a license small-scale multiplexes to operate under conditions appropriate | :44:07. | :44:09. | |
for the localities they will cover. I'd also not once provision that | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
creates a radio version of a Parliamentary train service, namely | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
a small bit of capacity kept just to meet a statutory requirement, rather | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
than deliver an actual real goal. Ultimately this issue will again be | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
the subject of a full consultation that will follow this bill becoming | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
law. But we can see the evidence from existing ones of what happens | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
whether current Leeds suggests current system is brought forward | :44:37. | :44:39. | |
and we see community stations going on. It's worth bearing in mind the | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
whole impetus behind the small-scale trial that the Department of | :44:45. | :44:47. | |
Culture, Media and Sport initiated in December 2013 was to ensure that | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
small stations, community stations and commercial radio stations, had a | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
digital option, especially if the strong shift in listening to digital | :44:57. | :45:01. | |
radio continues. This needs to be a practical option. Particularly we | :45:02. | :45:05. | |
are seeing the biggest change in the last few years, certainly since the | :45:06. | :45:08. | |
previous piece of legislation, has been the expansion of DAB into a car | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
radios. Not that long ago very, very few cars, perhaps the most expensive | :45:15. | :45:18. | |
vehicles, had a DAB radio installed. Now, quite a number have a DAB radio | :45:19. | :45:26. | |
install. It means when they switched to digital they find there is a | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
selection there, it's more likely to be the national radio stations, it's | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
almost certain to beat the syndicated regional ones, but they | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
may find that even commercial radio stations that are not that small, | :45:39. | :45:45. | |
for example there is an example Parisse FM, isn't actually on DAB. | :45:46. | :45:52. | |
That is either going to the people just migrate to Consolidated media | :45:53. | :45:55. | |
services, reducing choice and diversity are not all the actually | :45:56. | :46:01. | |
people don't migrate onto DAB and stick with FM, which in the long run | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
I suspect they will be a move to want to look at when radio could | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
switch over. He makes a very good point about small community radio | :46:12. | :46:17. | |
stations on FM rather than DAB. I've got one in my constituency, Vale | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
radio, covering the Vale of York and Vale of Pickering, but currently not | :46:23. | :46:29. | |
-- not on DAB because of costs and the licensing regime and this Bill | :46:30. | :46:31. | |
is intended to help organisations such as that. I thank the honourable | :46:32. | :46:38. | |
member for highlighting the whole purpose of this bill, which we can | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
come onto a bit more in third reading. But it is about the fact | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
that the current regulatory system that exists, if this bill doesn't | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
survive today, or if it gets talked out, then what will happen is it the | :46:51. | :46:56. | |
national and local multiplexes will continue, they'll still be there for | :46:57. | :47:00. | |
the largest operators in radio, that's fine, that suits their needs, | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
however, it will be the small community radio stations that are | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
the ones that will take the hit and ultimately see less users, less | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
choice and diversity, and also a regulatory system that would not | :47:14. | :47:17. | |
reflect the advancing technology. On second reading I made the point that | :47:18. | :47:21. | |
in the 1960s, the outcome of an outdated attitude to broadcasting | :47:22. | :47:25. | |
regulation was ships that just off our shores. The reality on this is | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
more radio stations would move onto the Internet, which myself and the | :47:31. | :47:37. | |
honourable member could go and set up on Internet radio station in our | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
office if we wanted to start broadcasting out. I'm not sure how | :47:42. | :47:44. | |
money people would want to listen to it. But that's the point of how | :47:45. | :47:48. | |
technology is moving on. In terms of giving people access to those | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
services, I can see some knobs of ascent to the point that very few | :47:54. | :47:56. | |
people might wish to listen to it, we can do that on Internet but it's | :47:57. | :48:03. | |
not got the type of ease of access that traditional rodeo -- radio | :48:04. | :48:08. | |
broadcasting mediums have. Yes, it's growing, and those who are tech | :48:09. | :48:11. | |
savvy probably have apps on their foes to do it, but it's not as easy | :48:12. | :48:15. | |
as having a simple digital radio that you can carry around that's | :48:16. | :48:19. | |
effectively something that is portable and doesn't have the size | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
of things like a laptop, and iPad or a smartphone. That's why I think | :48:25. | :48:27. | |
it's so important that we look to progress and have the version of the | :48:28. | :48:34. | |
bill unamended as it stands. That's where I'm quite clear, there needs | :48:35. | :48:36. | |
to be flexible as you for the future. What I wouldn't want to find | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
it in a year or two's time through well-intentioned reasons, we set up | :48:42. | :48:44. | |
some restrictions on the bill and then finding a year or two's time | :48:45. | :48:48. | |
that we are stunting growth and development in a rapidly moving | :48:49. | :48:54. | |
forward technology. It's safe to say that our forefathers, 30 or 40 years | :48:55. | :48:58. | |
ago, if we'd told them you could run broadcasting system for radio off | :48:59. | :49:04. | |
laptop, about this big, they'd have sat there in amazement. Broadcasting | :49:05. | :49:07. | |
station was a large room with a great tower on it. They'd have said, | :49:08. | :49:14. | |
what is a laptop? It's the way technology is moving on and it needs | :49:15. | :49:17. | |
to be flexible and adaptable, because there are so many different | :49:18. | :49:19. | |
locations. We are not replicating this Bill the guarantee of BBC | :49:20. | :49:25. | |
coverage, courage on the multiplex that is in the place for local and | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
national multiplexes, that was relevant for that time and for the | :49:30. | :49:32. | |
scale of the operations they were. I would be is to set a specific | :49:33. | :49:38. | |
requirement in every single licence for guaranteeing community access, | :49:39. | :49:41. | |
however, it's almost certain that Ofcom would want to consider how it | :49:42. | :49:46. | |
keeps a diversity on a particular multiplex, or how it gives an | :49:47. | :49:49. | |
opportunity, and the evidence from what we've seen is that actually | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
community radio stations have benefited very well from the | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
small-scale trials. But if we start to have a reservation or price | :49:58. | :50:01. | |
control and again, that's another thing we could consider, it would | :50:02. | :50:08. | |
get is into quite odd arguments as parliament into exactly where we set | :50:09. | :50:12. | |
price controls on particular areas, and also is a very purpose of smalls | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
scale multiplexes, there will be more of them which would bring costs | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
down and competition. There's got to be an incentive for the multiplex | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
owners to invest in this technology and equipment, and doesn't require a | :50:26. | :50:32. | |
significant investment, and what kind of rate of return would they | :50:33. | :50:36. | |
expect? That's obviously you need to create that incentive for this | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
equipment to be established. Thank the honourable member for his | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
intervention. It -- the bill gives provision for some of these to be | :50:47. | :50:49. | |
run as not for profit, effectively as community, and there's some | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
operations from a different stations come easily example I gave, was | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
whether things like a University or local authority might wish to | :50:58. | :51:00. | |
provide the infrastructure. We don't want to get into the game of local | :51:01. | :51:04. | |
authorities running radio stations, but you could run the infrastructure | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
under this license for not per for -- not purposes, but then the | :51:10. | :51:13. | |
station is, a commercial station could make a profit, but the key | :51:14. | :51:16. | |
issue is at the moment you can go from running an Internet radio | :51:17. | :51:20. | |
station in your bedroom to running a very small scale FM operation, and | :51:21. | :51:26. | |
build your business, build up your listeners to being a more | :51:27. | :51:30. | |
significant company. In the instance of additional radio regulation, to | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
go on to it you in some areas need to go to accompany turning over ?1 | :51:35. | :51:38. | |
million a year to pay the broadcast fees as part of that turnover. | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
That's why this is so important. I'm conscious of time. So I will wind | :51:43. | :51:51. | |
up, particularly by urging the two honourable members to withdraw their | :51:52. | :51:55. | |
amendments, and I'd urge the community media Association, who's | :51:56. | :51:58. | |
been very active with can -- contacting members, I've welcomed | :51:59. | :52:03. | |
that, and groups such as radio Centre, who have been in contact, to | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
work with the government through the consultation to deliver the | :52:08. | :52:10. | |
objectives I've outlined above. This is about opening up an opportunity, | :52:11. | :52:15. | |
giving community stations a chance to go digital and helping stimulate | :52:16. | :52:19. | |
creativity as we've seen and attend trial areas. I'll say more on third | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
reading but I hope the honourable two members have received the | :52:25. | :52:27. | |
assurances they need and withdraw these amendments. Thank you, I have, | :52:28. | :52:37. | |
I'm very grateful to my honourable friend, am I doing this right? Yes, | :52:38. | :52:44. | |
for his explanation, and he's gone a long way to reassure me, give me the | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
reassurances I need and explained the work of the trials, the way that | :52:49. | :52:54. | |
I see this is the start of the process and for that reason and the | :52:55. | :53:00. | |
need I believe to keep this Bill flexible with the leave of the House | :53:01. | :53:06. | |
IBEC to withdraw my amendments. Is at your pleasure the amendment be | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
withdrawn? Amendment by leaves withdrawn. Amendment withdrawn. | :53:11. | :53:19. | |
Consideration completed. Third reading, what day? Now. The question | :53:20. | :53:25. | |
is the bill be read in the third time. Thank you, Madam Deputy | :53:26. | :53:33. | |
Speaker. It's a pleasure to move the bill be read a third time and to | :53:34. | :53:36. | |
thank honourable members for the contributions that have been made | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
today, and to those who served on the bill committee. I don't intend | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
to detain the house hugely, in terms of this third reading, but I do want | :53:45. | :53:49. | |
to set out the wider purposes of this Bill and why I believe it's | :53:50. | :53:52. | |
right that it's now receives its final approval from this House | :53:53. | :53:57. | |
today. The whole purpose of the bill is to tackle a hole in the | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
legislation that currently exists around broadcasting. There are three | :54:02. | :54:08. | |
levels of radio, national, regional and larger local, and community. At | :54:09. | :54:13. | |
the moment, three of them exist on the analogue frequencies. Two of | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
them exist on the digital frequencies. And that's why it's now | :54:18. | :54:22. | |
important to create an opportunity via the framework to have community | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
stations to go onto digital. I very clear this Bill is not about forcing | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
any station to go onto digital platform. If they wish to stay on | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
the analogue platform. During the passage of this bill through this | :54:37. | :54:39. | |
House and in committee we've had comments around future moves to have | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
a switchover in the same way as we had with television some years ago, | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
but that is not the intention of this bill, and those requirements | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
are not in this Bill. I'd also be clear we do need to keep a | :54:53. | :54:58. | |
flexibility in this Bill to allow the hundreds of different | :54:59. | :55:01. | |
circumstances to be taken into account during the issue of | :55:02. | :55:04. | |
individual licences. It would clearly be rather bizarre to say, as | :55:05. | :55:11. | |
we don't do in any other community licence, that the idea of what might | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
be an appropriate restriction to cover Croydon, which is almost the | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
size of commentary -- Coventry but is an individual community in | :55:21. | :55:23. | |
London, will be the same requirement in Whitehaven in Cumbria, where is | :55:24. | :55:28. | |
actually the start I think the first place to switchover to digital TV, | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
it would not be appropriate in that community to put in the same sort of | :55:33. | :55:36. | |
restrictions we might think would be sensible and reasonable for a large | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
suburban part of London. It's also worth noting that and I firmly | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
believe is out there are because one of the points that has been made a | :55:46. | :55:48. | |
few times during the process of this Bill is, is there a demand for this? | :55:49. | :55:53. | |
It's all very well to sit here and legislate and say that we should | :55:54. | :55:56. | |
have this. I'll come to the honourable member in a moment. Is | :55:57. | :56:01. | |
there a demand? What we see from the ten small-scale trials as they are | :56:02. | :56:06. | |
simple to operate and there is a demand and new choices are created. | :56:07. | :56:10. | |
I give way. On that very point about digital technology, my honourable | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
friend from Thirsk and Malton alluded to it earlier, in the Calder | :56:15. | :56:20. | |
Valley we really do struggle with reception, so to allow community | :56:21. | :56:25. | |
radios and small radio stations move onto digital, surely we have to have | :56:26. | :56:28. | |
the technology in place first of all for them to do that. Thank you, I | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
thank the honourable member for that intervention, and he's right. The | :56:34. | :56:39. | |
thing is the technology actually exists. It's their, you can have | :56:40. | :56:43. | |
small-scale broadcasting, particularly looking at for example | :56:44. | :56:50. | |
the use of high buildings. If you put the transmission equipment on a | :56:51. | :56:53. | |
tall building it takes out the cost of maintaining a large radio mast, | :56:54. | :56:57. | |
the traditional type of broadcasting system we might think of. The | :56:58. | :57:03. | |
technology exists, but ability to license it does not. | :57:04. | :57:10. | |
What happens to the trial stations in the ten areas if we do not get on | :57:11. | :57:17. | |
and legislate? They will end up closing. A trial system is not the | :57:18. | :57:22. | |
proper way of regulating broadcasting in the long term. Yes, | :57:23. | :57:27. | |
it can be used to create the trial areas and the feedback is it has | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
gone down very well, but that cannot go on for ever. It needs to be | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
brought to an end. I totally and utterly agree with that sentiment. I | :57:38. | :57:43. | |
thank the honourable member for that statement. Sometimes in this chamber | :57:44. | :57:47. | |
we are exchanging comments to each other that are not normally quite so | :57:48. | :57:54. | |
supportive, so it is welcome. Thinking of the many diverse | :57:55. | :57:57. | |
communities in east London who in reality are not going to go on to a | :57:58. | :58:00. | |
London wide multiplex, they cannot do that. They will be able to get | :58:01. | :58:08. | |
small-scale licences and provide competition to larger operations and | :58:09. | :58:12. | |
they will be unique services with individual choice. I am delightful | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
and delighted to have the support of the honourable member for this bill. | :58:17. | :58:22. | |
I suspect we will be moving on to the third reading vote and I hope | :58:23. | :58:28. | |
she will be shouting iMac in her usual style. There is an issue | :58:29. | :58:43. | |
around could somebody own more than one small-scale multiplex? The | :58:44. | :58:48. | |
suggestion was brought up by the honourable member for Cardiff West | :58:49. | :58:52. | |
and the specific point on that would be if we restricted it to them only | :58:53. | :58:57. | |
having one, we could tap bizarre outcomes. For example, in an area | :58:58. | :59:04. | |
where more than one is needed, I would think in London one might be a | :59:05. | :59:13. | |
good restriction. But for the British forces services, do we do | :59:14. | :59:20. | |
that for one station, it would clearly be better for them to allow | :59:21. | :59:25. | |
them to have more than one across the country in particular military | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
bases. If you put restrictions in, we could see bizarre things | :59:31. | :59:39. | |
happening like having to put in a structure that allows somebody to | :59:40. | :59:47. | |
get around it. I am interested to hear the minister's thoughts on this | :59:48. | :59:54. | |
point as well, how we stop it from being local and national media | :59:55. | :00:00. | |
multiplex systems. If we were too strict on the bill, we would end up | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
with having a situation where there would be some quite outcomes that | :00:05. | :00:14. | |
were never intended. I hope when the bill heads to the other players, | :00:15. | :00:19. | |
their Lordships will recognise that as well, why there is a specific | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
reason why we have not put that restriction in on this bill. If ever | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
in the future we decided to go for a switchover, we need to provide an | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
option for companies who are not large-scale media conglomerates, but | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
who do have more than one station. I hope in considering today's third | :00:38. | :00:44. | |
reading that is taken into consideration. I look for the list | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
of community radio stations that are out there who will get the first | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
real chance to go onto DAB and there are so many of them and they are | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
very diverse. They are in communities that struggle to get | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
their voices heard. I hope when the bill gets the third reading they | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
will see that as an encouragement to continue and a real positive for the | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
future. That is why I am proud to have brought this bill to the floor | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
of the House and I am hopeful today the House will agree to give its | :01:18. | :01:20. | |
third reading and sent it on its way. Thank you very much, I will be | :01:21. | :01:32. | |
short and pithy to give my fellow members a chance to speak to move | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
the business on. I would like to thank the honourable member for | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
Torbay for his expansive reason as to why he did not think my amendment | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
was going to give any greater clarity to the bill. I have followed | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
this with interest and I would like to think there is space for a | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
community radio to have its full place and, like he said, to allow | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
those such as the British forces, ethnic music to have its place | :02:03. | :02:08. | |
within its community, so they can have a voice as well. There is an | :02:09. | :02:15. | |
enthusiasm for small and commercial, independent stations to broadcast on | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
DAB and I would like to hope they can do that without cost being a | :02:19. | :02:25. | |
factor in why they do not and I hope this bill would enable this to | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
happen. I would like to say that he has my support. I rise to support | :02:31. | :02:39. | |
the reading of this bill and to congratulate the honourable member | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
for Torbay for introducing this bill. It seems to me to be a bill | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
which is very much on the cusp of very important new developments in | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
the world of digital radio, helping to open up the market to community | :02:53. | :02:59. | |
radio stations that want to broadcast on DAB. I particularly | :03:00. | :03:11. | |
wanted to refer to a community radio station which is broadcasting to my | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
constituency, the Black Country radio. As the honourable member for | :03:16. | :03:22. | |
Torbay may know, the Black Country radio has been one of the smaller | :03:23. | :03:28. | |
radio stations which has been taking part in the local DAV trial. They | :03:29. | :03:35. | |
speak very positively of the benefits of the trial and they tell | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
me that if they had wanted to broadcast over DAB before the trial | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
had been introduced, it would have cost them thousands of pounds, that | :03:45. | :03:53. | |
is an to that radio station. Now the Black Country community radio | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
station is beginning to position itself as a vital source of local | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
community news for the Black Country area, covering local politics and | :04:02. | :04:09. | |
local community events. I am very hopeful that once this bill has | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
passed through the other place and hopefully gets its third reading | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
today, that the trial will be extended and this will allow the | :04:19. | :04:26. | |
Black Country radio to continue to extend its reach as a very effective | :04:27. | :04:33. | |
local community radio station. I think my honourable friend's bill is | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
going to be a major contributing factor in enhancing the offer of the | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
Black Country community radio station. As my honourable friend for | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
Torbay pointed out, digital radio is a large growth market and there has | :04:50. | :04:56. | |
been a proliferation of local radio stations which I want to tap into | :04:57. | :05:03. | |
and I think this bill will be a very effective mechanism of stimulating | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
that market. In the second quarter of 2016, we saw a large set of | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
digital stations posting results for the first time and it showed that | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
digital radio listening had reached a new high of 45.3%. We have seen | :05:20. | :05:28. | |
considerable annual growth in audiences for digital radio, I | :05:29. | :05:35. | |
growth of 4.5% over the last year. This bill allows small radio | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
stations to take full advantage of the growth in this sector and I have | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
already cited the example of the Black Country radio station. It will | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
bring growth and prosperity to small radio stations and this will benefit | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
the local community. The aim of this bill is ably articulated by the | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
honourable member for Torbay is to create a system of radio and | :06:03. | :06:08. | |
multiplexes. National multiplexes for UK wide transmission, local | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
radio multiplexes and small-scale radio multiplexes for sub county | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
level transmission. These three tier system with a lighter touch | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
regulatory framework will open the market and bring with it the | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
when it comes to the deregulation of when it comes to the deregulation of | :06:27. | :06:34. | |
the industry. This bill also puts in place a provision which excludes | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
larger radio stations, such as the BBC who have existing licences in | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
either national or local radio multiplex services, from holding a | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
small-scale multiplex licence. This helps to make sure that these new | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
multiplex sites will not be abused by larger radio stations and ensures | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
they can be used for the purposes they were intended, to let smaller | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
radio stations see the benefits of using the DAB format. I would like | :07:06. | :07:12. | |
to congratulate the honourable member for Torbay for steering this | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
bill through to its third reading stage. I think it represents a very | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
important modernisation of the existing licensing regime that will | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
take into account the different needs of local radio stations, | :07:28. | :07:33. | |
facilitating this creation of a richer market and a better | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
broadcasting experience for the consumer. I think we would all agree | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
that the current broadcasting act of 1996 has failed to keep pace with | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
the recent technological developments and market changes we | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
have seen and this bill is very important contribution to the of | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
digital radio and I very much support the third reading of this | :08:00. | :08:08. | |
bill. I would just like to congratulate my honourable friend | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
from Torbay for bringing this legislation forward and for his deep | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
understanding of the technologies that lie behind these fantastic | :08:18. | :08:19. | |
evolutions in our broadcasting abilities. I will support this bill | :08:20. | :08:28. | |
and particularly his reference to it creating more competition in the | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
market. More commercial operators. It can be dominated by quite large | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
national change even though they present themselves as local | :08:39. | :08:45. | |
operators. If those operators do compete with those larger stations | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
or networks for revenue from advertising, that can only be good | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
for opportunities for local people and for more business people. But of | :08:55. | :09:01. | |
course also community operators. I have an excellent community operator | :09:02. | :09:08. | |
in my constituency called Valle Radio, who have a deep understanding | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
of the local area. They are local people themselves and they regularly | :09:14. | :09:21. | |
do slots on the local MP. They came down to see what happened on a | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
typical MP's day. That local connection is incredibly important. | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
To facilitate these smaller operators you need more affordable | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
access and this is exactly what this is about, breaking down larger DAV | :09:35. | :09:43. | |
areas into areas 60% smaller than the typical schemes available at the | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
moment, which means it should be cheaper and more accessible. Putting | :09:48. | :09:55. | |
bandwidth aside specifically for the small commercial operators and for | :09:56. | :10:02. | |
community stations. As my honourable friend alluded to, these actual | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
schemes, the equipment and the multiplexes themselves, can be | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
provided by not for profit operators, which again will mean the | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
accessibility and cost of access is more suitable for local community | :10:18. | :10:26. | |
operators. They can have niche channels, but it very much relates | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
to the local area in terms of content of their programmes and in | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
terms of their local insights. Clearly there is demand, Madame | :10:35. | :10:41. | |
Deputy Speaker, for these towels and for this spectrum. There are 444 | :10:42. | :10:49. | |
small commercial stations that would like to get onto DAB and do not have | :10:50. | :10:56. | |
any access at the moment and this is a growing part of the broadcasting | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
market, 45% of listeners today listen on digital. That will go to | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
50% by the end of this year. It certainly is very significant in | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
terms of its access to the market and its future in terms of how | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
people will listen to radio in the future. One thing I would like to | :11:17. | :11:24. | |
question to my honourable friend and the Minister is around the actual | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
multiplex operators. Just in terms of the numbers of licences they can | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
own, and I referred to this earlier in my intervention, to making sure | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
we do not end up in a situation where you have a monopolistic | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
situation with a media company who owns lots of these multiplexes and | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
then has control over pricing, which is absolutely vital, making sure | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
there is a restriction on the numbers of multiplexes that one | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
licence holder can hold. At the same time we need to balance that with | :12:00. | :12:06. | |
the need for investment. There is investment in terms of technology, | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
equipment and staffing and you have to balance the two to make sure it | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
delivers a solution and both the roll-out of these multiplexes, | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
whilst making sure the community operators and the small commercial | :12:19. | :12:25. | |
I'll keep this intervention fairly short. I'm conscious the front | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
benches want to say something. In terms of reassure Hing Hing, look at | :12:31. | :12:38. | |
subsection B, Ofcom will make provision as to the gullibility | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
ability of eight small-scale license including persons holding national | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
and local, if they felt a monopoly was emerging in an area used powers, | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
but that's one for the detailed consultation on this point and | :12:54. | :12:56. | |
reorder, rather than the bill itself. Yes, he makes a good point. | :12:57. | :13:03. | |
Perhaps monopoly is too strong a word. Nevertheless, you could get in | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
a situation of a hinterland, Weverton operator of these multiplex | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
licences who has too strong a control, particularly in a given | :13:12. | :13:18. | |
area. Just to put some protections in place to make sure that | :13:19. | :13:21. | |
affordability of access remains. Whilst as I say, retaining an | :13:22. | :13:24. | |
incentive for a commercial operator, because they may we be commercial | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
operators who have the not-for-profit operators have still | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
got that incentive to invest. I'd like to say and congratulate the | :13:33. | :13:39. | |
Department for their foresight in starting this trial in 2014 and | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
putting that time and investment in this new technology, which is | :13:45. | :13:51. | |
leading to this potential roll-out and this new opportunity for a lot | :13:52. | :13:54. | |
of commercial stations and for community operators, but just to | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
conclude by really congratulate in a game my honourable friend for his | :14:01. | :14:03. | |
deep understanding of the process of Parliament to get this far and he is | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
nearly over the finishing line, but also his understanding of the | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
technology. His work will help many, many operators and many commutative | :14:13. | :14:18. | |
going forward. -- community is going forward. Thank you very much and my | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
remarks at third reading today will also be fairly brief, since we've | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
quite extensively discussed the Berlin committee and there's been a | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
very good debate today, at report stage, and at third reading, and I | :14:33. | :14:35. | |
know the honourable member and the government are as keen as we are by | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
2pm to hear from my honourable friend. Therefore my remarks won't | :14:41. | :14:46. | |
be overly extensive. The honourable gentleman for Torbay am I did | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
congratulate him at the committee stage and I do again today, for | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
bringing forward the bill and along its parliamentary journey. He said | :14:56. | :14:58. | |
earlier on should those amendments have been accepted by the House | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
there would be no chance to do anything about it later. That is not | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
technically correct because his bill makes it down the other end of the | :15:07. | :15:09. | |
building and they may have a different view and might have wanted | :15:10. | :15:12. | |
to take out something we put in at this end of the building, but | :15:13. | :15:15. | |
nevertheless they were amendments that were discussed, similar ones, | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
at committee stage, and it will now before the other place to decide | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
about the reassurances he's been able to give with regard to those | :15:24. | :15:25. | |
amendments which are subsequently withdrawn. I do congratulate the | :15:26. | :15:34. | |
honourable member for the bill. It was a noncontroversial hand-out bill | :15:35. | :15:36. | |
from the government, but you still have to carry it effectively through | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
its parliamentary stages and he indeed has done that, although it | :15:42. | :15:44. | |
might possibly be not unfair to observe that there is a bill at | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
committee stage in the other place right now, the Digital economy Bill, | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
bit which it might have been a suitable part of, had it been ready | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
in time for the government bill. We support this bill. We championed | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
community radio whilst we were in government. We created the community | :16:04. | :16:10. | |
radio order in 2004, establishing the community radio fund, and the | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
bill continues that work by updating the infrastructure available to | :16:15. | :16:17. | |
community radio stations and facilitating affordable access to | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
digital frequencies. I'm sure most members of a House, particularly as | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
we heard at second reading, have a community radio in their own | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
constituency in mind throughout the debate, and I will, like others, | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
paid tribute to my local radio station, Radio Cardiff. But | :16:38. | :16:40. | |
community radio stations are agents for social good, they involve | :16:41. | :16:46. | |
volunteers, engage listeners and contribute to social cohesion and | :16:47. | :16:49. | |
any measure which supports these stations in extending their reach | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
and expanding their impact is very welcome. So from this side of a | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
House, we give our welcome to the bill and we will support it at third | :16:59. | :17:05. | |
reading and hopefully send it on its way to a bright future in the other | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
place and hopefully without too much further delay into law, so it makes | :17:10. | :17:16. | |
the impact that undoubtedly will do at a local level in our | :17:17. | :17:25. | |
constituencies. The minister. Thank you, and thank you for calling me on | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
this important occasion. First, let me begin by taking this opportunity | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
to congratulate my honourable friend. It's the first chance I've | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
had the opportunity to soak for getting the broadcasting services | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
bill through to this stage, through to third reading, and he has done an | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
extremely detailed and thorough job with the bill. It's a great credit | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
to him that this bill looks like it's going to pass into law without | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
taking anything for granted in the other place of course. The | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
government supports this bill, because it will enable the creation | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
of an appropriate and low-cost licensing regime for the | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
transmission of digital radio on a small scale. It will give small | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
commercial and community stations a platform to broadcast on digital, | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
which is currently beyond their reach, due to costs and constraints | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
of the existing statutory re-theme. The detailed -- regime. The detail | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
of how the new licensing regime will operate will be subject to full | :18:28. | :18:30. | |
consultation that has been referred to earlier in the debate. But I | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
would like to thank all the honourable members and my honourable | :18:36. | :18:37. | |
friends for their very thoughtful contributions to the debate on this | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
bill today and also in the previous sessions that we've had, in | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
particular the honourable members for Aldridge-Brownhills, Thirsk and | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
Malton, Calder Valley and Halesowen and Raleigh Regis. With your | :18:52. | :18:58. | |
forbearance, there were some questions that have been raised that | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
I just want to quickly try and deal with before we move on. My | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
honourable friend the member for Bury St Edmunds asks the question | :19:08. | :19:12. | |
about access for small community radio stations. I just wanted to | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
reassure my honourable friend the aim is to provide a means for all | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
small stations, especially community stations, to go digital. The | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
builders allow us to put in protection to reserve capacity and | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
exclude large operators, however this is done needs a very flexible | :19:30. | :19:37. | |
approach. -- the bill does allow us. My honourable member the member for | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
Thirsk and Malton asks a similar question. I can confirm to him the | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
bill already gives Ofcom the power to exclude holders of existing local | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
and national multiplex licence holders from taking licenses in | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
small-scale digital radio multiplexes. This will stop large | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
groups, particularly large media organisations, which operates | :20:00. | :20:01. | |
digital radio multiplexes on a larger scale from holding small | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
radio multiplexes. This will have the benefit of keeping down the cost | :20:06. | :20:09. | |
of carriage on small-scale multiplexes because they will not be | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
open to existing large scale commercial radio multiplex | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
operators. The final question, which was raised by the honourable member | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
for Cardiff West, was about why is this not in the Digital economy | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
Bill. This has been dealt with before by my honourable friend the | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
member for West Suffolk. He has said that DSM -- DC MS needed to see the | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
conclusions of the Ofcom trials before we move to legislation. Ofcom | :20:38. | :20:44. | |
didn't publish that evaluation until September 2016, which was several | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
months after the introduction of the Digital economy Bill, which I think | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
the honourable member knew anyway, but we'll move on from there. This | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
must have repeatedly said how important local radio is to them -- | :20:59. | :21:05. | |
listeners have repeatedly said. We search in 2015 indicates 45% of | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
local commercial radio listeners valued the local news on it and 35% | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
value it for local travel and weather information. It's clear that | :21:15. | :21:21. | |
radio remains a very popular medium, with industry figures indicating 90% | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
of adult population listened to the radio each week and that overall | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
listening to radio remained strong, with over 1 billion hours being | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
consumed by adults in the UK each week. Although radio's popularity, | :21:35. | :21:41. | |
measured by its reach and audience hours, have been stable over recent | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
years, radio is changing. Listening on analogue is falling back, as DAB | :21:46. | :21:52. | |
listening on platforms only continue to grow steadily. Currently, digital | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
radio's share is 45.5%, as my friend for Torbay said, of all radio | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
listening, and almost 60% of homes are now owning ADA DAB radio. The | :22:04. | :22:12. | |
radio industry can't think this will continue and this means Digital will | :22:13. | :22:15. | |
overtake analogue as the default listening mode in the near future. | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
One of the drivers, almost literally, of this change, is new | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
cars. Around 85% of new cars sold according to the Society of Motor | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
Manufacturers and Traders, now have DAB radio is installed as standard | :22:31. | :22:36. | |
and according to digital radio UK, one quarter of all in car radio | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
listening is digital. This is behind total listening growing at 39% a | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
year. I'd also endorse what might honourable friends and said about | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
the important role played by local radio stations. Small commercial and | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
community radio stations continue to provide an important means of | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
informing and engaging with their communities, as well as providing | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
entertaining, popular and lively programming. So government | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
recognises the importance of smaller stations to their local communities, | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
and we have been aware for some time of the desire for small commercial | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
and community radio stations to have a route to broadcast on a digital | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
platform, which meets their needs. This is the objective behind this | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
bill, to give smaller stations the ability to broadcast on digital. A | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
key success of the small-scale multiplex trials, set up by Ofcom, | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
has been the strong support from smaller stations, including | :23:33. | :23:34. | |
community radio and the way that they've all worked together. The | :23:35. | :23:40. | |
majority of trial small-scale multiplexes are full, or nearly | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
full. The development of a lair of small-scale multiplexes will provide | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
the answer in most cases for how to provide the 400 small commercial and | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
community radio stations currently transmitting to their local areas on | :23:54. | :23:59. | |
FM or medium wave, with the opportunity to broadcast cost | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
effectively on a digital platform. The development of a tier of | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
small-scale DAB networks across the country could also attract new | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
entrants to launch radio services. Some with successful programme | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
formats from prior experience of broadcasting via the Internet. | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
Overall we think the development is likely to result in a wider | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
selection of stations and programme content for listeners, which I think | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
we will all agree can only be a really positive thing. This will | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
create new audiences for advertisers and sponsors, facilitating growth in | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
the sector. The government welcomes this bill. And supports it, as it | :24:42. | :24:50. | |
moves to the other place. It's had a very strong airing in this place and | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
we hope the other place will give the bill a fair wind, given its | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
limited but extremely targeted scope. The cross-party support, | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
including all honourable members here today, and the reassurances | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
that have been given by me and the honourable member for Torbay today, | :25:09. | :25:15. | |
thank you. With the leave of the House can I thank those members who | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
spoken and particularly the support that has just been received from the | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
government to this bill. I think this is a welcome measure that will | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
make a difference to so many communities across the country, and | :25:28. | :25:30. | |
I'm pleased it will be going up with cross-party support, not least given | :25:31. | :25:33. | |
the position in terms of the balance in the other place. This is a bill | :25:34. | :25:36. | |
that will have an impact across the whole of the United Kingdom. The | :25:37. | :25:39. | |
bill we've just finished discussing is one that will cover the whole UK | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
and will bring a real benefit of listening, creativity and diversity | :25:46. | :25:51. | |
and ultimately jobs to all parts of the United Kingdom. But I'm | :25:52. | :25:54. | |
conscious that time is marching on. There's another bill that I'm keen | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
to hear in a minute and to make some supportive remarks on, so with that | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
I'll thank all members who have spoken and allow the question to be | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
put. The question is that the Bill be now read the third time. As many | :26:10. | :26:12. | |
are of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". I think the ayes | :26:13. | :26:27. | |
have it, the ayes have it. Order. Child Poverty in the UK (Target for | :26:28. | :26:36. | |
Reduction) Bill second reading. Child Poverty in the UK (Target for | :26:37. | :26:38. | |
Reduction) Bill, Mr Jarvis. I beg to move that the bill be read | :26:39. | :26:50. | |
a second time. It is a privilege to have the opportunity to debate my | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
bill on the floor of the House today. This bill seeks to establish | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
a target for the reduction of child poverty because it is a fundamental | :27:00. | :27:02. | |
principle of fairness that every child should have the best start in | :27:03. | :27:08. | |
life. One of the great privileges of serving in Parliament is the broad | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
range of people you get the opportunity to meet. Kelly Louise, a | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
remarkable ten-year-old, stands out as someone who bravely shared her | :27:18. | :27:19. | |
experiences of growing up in poverty. She spoke of the stresses | :27:20. | :27:28. | |
poverty imposed on her family, how that affected her and the coping | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
mechanisms she used to make life liveable. From what you wear to | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
school, to the home you return to, she conveyed her poverty shapes so | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
much of a young person's life. When you see poverty through the lens of | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
children, the solutions become a little clearer and more urgent. That | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
is the reason why I served in Parliament, to ensure that where you | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
are bored is no barrier to your future. Is the honourable member | :27:56. | :28:03. | |
aware that the Joseph Rowntree Foundation issued figures which | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
indicated that while most of the population in poverty will be | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
decreasing by 2021, four children it will increase? My honourable friend | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
speaks with great authority on these matters and I am aware of those | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
figures and I will refer to them later on in my speech, but I am | :28:22. | :28:28. | |
grateful for her intervention. I was making the point the reason all of | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
us in this house served in Parliament is to ensure that where | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
you grow up does not determine where you end up. As a member of | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
Parliament for Barnsley Central, it is a huge privilege to work to | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
ensure that children who grow up in my constituency get the same life | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
opportunities as more other affluent parts of the country. Today I will | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
make the case that our shared duty means that in 2017 no child in | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
Britain should have to grow up in poverty. I will set out some of the | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
challenges facing those children and their families, because if we are to | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
take the required steps for poverty to be no longer an everyday reality | :29:12. | :29:22. | |
for children in Britain, we must recognise the realities of modern | :29:23. | :29:24. | |
poverty and we must develop solutions which are coordinated and | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
prioritised, building partnerships with communities, employers and | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
devolved administrations. As in life if you want to achieve something in | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
government, it is useful to set a target. It is a starting point upon | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
which a renewed effort can be built. The measures contained within that | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
target and policies required to achieve it should rightly be at | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
length. But my bill intends to establish the principle rather than | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
be prescriptive. In doing so I deferred to the advice of the House | :29:58. | :30:04. | |
of commons library to note, targets let those responsible for delivery | :30:05. | :30:07. | |
know what needs to happen so they can plan, monitor and deliver. Does | :30:08. | :30:15. | |
he agree with me if you do not meet your targets and you change your | :30:16. | :30:17. | |
actions, you do not change your targets. I am grateful again to my | :30:18. | :30:24. | |
honourable friend who speaks with real authority on this matter. I | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
absolutely agree with what she is saying. Let us be clear, this house | :30:30. | :30:36. | |
has previously united behind that principle, most notably in the | :30:37. | :30:39. | |
passing of the 2010 child poverty act. I congratulate him on bringing | :30:40. | :30:46. | |
forward this important bill. He is right to emphasise the importance of | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
targets and targets work. When Labour set its targets to reduce | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
child poverty by a quarter by 2005 and have by 2010, when we saw | :30:57. | :31:04. | |
progress falling back, action needed to be taken, which resulted in more | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
than a million children being removed from poverty. I honourable | :31:10. | :31:15. | |
friend speaks with huge knowledge and authority on this matter and she | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
is absolutely right. Today represents an opportunity for all of | :31:21. | :31:24. | |
us here to send out a clear statement of intent, that our goal | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
is that no child should have to grow up in poverty and we will hold | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
ourselves accountable and measure progress through the target we seek | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
to set. But why is it so urgent that we do so? The Resolution Foundation | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
highlights falling living standards among the least well off. It is a | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
combination of rising inflation, welfare cuts and lower pay | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
increases. They warn for the purist this time of Parliament will be the | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
worst for living standards since records began and the worst since | :32:00. | :32:06. | |
1980s for inequality. I wonder if my honourable friend agrees that a | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
growing problem in our country now is child poverty where parents are | :32:11. | :32:17. | |
working? I would agree with my honourable friend, she has | :32:18. | :32:19. | |
anticipated some of the remarks I will come to very quickly, but I am | :32:20. | :32:26. | |
grateful for her intervention. I was referring to a recent report from | :32:27. | :32:29. | |
the Resolution Foundation. I would like to refer to a landmark report | :32:30. | :32:36. | |
from the Royal College of paediatrics and Child health. They | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
highlight the stark inequalities between children of different | :32:41. | :32:43. | |
backgrounds and the effect of poverty in worsening children's | :32:44. | :32:52. | |
Hell. -- health. He has drawn attention to the importance of | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
targets for child poverty and I agree with him about the impact of | :32:57. | :33:02. | |
those targets when Tony Blair set them in 1999. One of the reason we | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
are going backwards is because targets have been abolished by | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
governments since 2010. My right honourable friend speaks because of | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
experience of implementing a target in government and we are grateful | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
for the work he has done. He is right, the reality is if any | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
government was serious about reducing the number of children | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
growing up in poverty, they would seek to set themselves a target. | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
That takes us to the essence of what this debate is about. But I am | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
confident that every member of this house serves constituents who live | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
in poverty. Every member of Parliament has considerable numbers | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
of constituents who grow up in poverty. All of us in this place | :33:49. | :33:53. | |
should and will be aware of the many challenges faced by families right | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
across the country. Times are hard and for many money is short. In | :33:59. | :34:04. | |
Britain today on average nine children in a classroom of 30 grow | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
up in poverty. For those 4 million children it can mean living in a | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
cold and cramped home, falling behind in school and suffering ill | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
health later in life. Today we have an opportunity to make a clear | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
commitment to do right by those children because feelings of concern | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
and insecurity about our future direction as a country are becoming | :34:29. | :34:35. | |
commonplace. This is not just about the Brexit debate, it extends to a | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
fundamental question of what we are prepared to tolerate as a society. | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
Ipsos Mori regularly surveys the public to ask about the top issues | :34:45. | :34:50. | |
facing Britain. One in five people now highlight poverty as one of the | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
biggest challenges facing our country. The anxiety has increased | :34:56. | :34:58. | |
significantly in recent times and it now stands at the highest level | :34:59. | :35:05. | |
since the question was first asked in 1997. In these uncertain times we | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
face a defining challenge in order to provide greater security to our | :35:11. | :35:17. | |
families and calling time on child poverty must be fundamental to that. | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
Without a change in approach, the ISS predict that by 2020, levels of | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
relative child poverty will increase by 50%. The reality may be starker. | :35:27. | :35:34. | |
Greater economic uncertainty, rising costs and lower pay growth mean the | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
ISS conclude that the outlook for poverty is almost certainly worse. | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
That is a wake-up call to a looming crisis. Ever increasing child | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
poverty is not inevitable, it is a result of political choices. When | :35:50. | :35:56. | |
child poverty rose sharply in the 1980s and peaked in the late 1990s | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
before falling very significantly, the previous government, which | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
happen to be Labour, showed us how that can be achieved, delivering the | :36:08. | :36:10. | |
biggest achievement of any EU nation in tackling child poverty, to lift 1 | :36:11. | :36:17. | |
million children out of poverty. It did not happen by accident. The | :36:18. | :36:20. | |
government set themselves a target and made achieving it a target. | :36:21. | :36:31. | |
Investment in early years education, start care, support was expanded for | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
families so they could enjoy greater control over their lives and greater | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
security in their finances. Policies including the tax credit system and | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
the doubling of the amount of maternity leave taken, all of this | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
was supported by the child poverty unit which has now been quietly | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
disbanded by the government. That cross departmental unit, | :36:55. | :37:00. | |
co-sponsored by the Department for Education, work and pensions and the | :37:01. | :37:05. | |
Treasury, held a special status. He recognised that action against child | :37:06. | :37:10. | |
poverty required across government approach. Its closure risked giving | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
the impression that tackling child poverty has been downgraded. Setting | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
a target can help put that right. It would demonstrate the seriousness of | :37:22. | :37:24. | |
purpose and determination to stop more children living in poverty | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
because we have a duty to this generation to make progress on | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
addressing child poverty once again. I am grateful. He mentioned the | :37:35. | :37:41. | |
Royal College of paediatrics' report a moment ago. Was he aware that they | :37:42. | :37:48. | |
found we had one of the worst levels in infant mortality in Western | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
Europe? Eliminating child poverty would save the lives of 1400 | :37:54. | :38:00. | |
children under 15 years old a year. I am grateful to my honourable | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
friend, not only for that incredibly important point she has made, but | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
for her unstinting support throughout this process. That is a | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
shocking statistic, it brings shame on our country, and collectively we | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
have to strive to do much better. This bill is about providing an | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
opportunity for government, for all of us, to seek to do much better. I | :38:24. | :38:30. | |
will give way. I wonder if he has seen the analysis of the end child | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
poverty coalition showing that since 2010 the cost of living has gone up | :38:36. | :38:41. | |
by 19%, the state pension has gone up by 22% and child benefit by 2%. | :38:42. | :38:48. | |
Does that not indicate where this child poverty statistic has arisen? | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
I honourable friend put his finger on the nub of the problem. Those in | :38:53. | :38:58. | |
work are increasingly struggling to make ends meet and that is what this | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
debate is about, how we can provide support to those families. I thank | :39:03. | :39:09. | |
the honourable member and as somebody who grew up in a family | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
that was rich in love, but not in money, can I welcome him bringing | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
this bill to the floor today. Sometimes my comments are about IQ | :39:20. | :39:22. | |
anger, but no alternative, so it is welcome to hear examples of | :39:23. | :39:31. | |
alternatives. I hope in a few moments he will be able to hear a | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
few more alternative proposals coming from myself. Forgive me. I | :39:36. | :39:42. | |
will make more progress. A target provides a strong foundation for a | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
wider approach which matches the complexity of the causes of poverty | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
today. I will briefly set out proposals contained in my bill. My | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
bill will ask the government to consult with the social mobility | :39:56. | :39:58. | |
commission to decide the date by which the target should be met. It | :39:59. | :40:04. | |
is not prescriptive in all of the poverty measures this target should | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
include, it requires the Secretary of State to bring forward a proposal | :40:09. | :40:13. | |
to allow for a range of measures to be considered, including the | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
government's indicators of children living in workless households and | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
educational attainment at age 16. I am clear it should include reference | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
to the four established measures of poverty based on income because it | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
is a central factor in meeting children's needs. Income measures | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
which have enjoyed cross-party support and the recording of which | :40:37. | :40:40. | |
which was placed on a statutory footing by the coalition. As my | :40:41. | :40:46. | |
honourable friend alluded to money is not everything, but that does not | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
mean it is nothing. A target should recognise that. In order to ensure | :40:51. | :40:57. | |
accountability to the target, my bill requires the government to lay | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
before Parliament a child poverty strategy, setting out the measures | :41:02. | :41:04. | |
the government will take to meet the target. I thank the honourable | :41:05. | :41:11. | |
member. Does he agree with me that the government could learn from the | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
Welsh Labour government that acknowledged in 2011 there should be | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
a strategy around tackling child poverty with five key areas for | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
improvement? They are making their way towards achieving those goals, | :41:26. | :41:29. | |
but the government could learn from the Labour government in Wales. He | :41:30. | :41:36. | |
is right, there is a lot of incredibly constructive work going | :41:37. | :41:40. | |
on around the country. In Wales, Scotland and in other parts of | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
Britain as well and collectively we all have a responsibility and a duty | :41:45. | :41:47. | |
to look at that and learn from it and spread is best practice across | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
the country. There would be a strategy setting | :41:53. | :42:01. | |
out the measures the government will take to meet the target and | :42:02. | :42:04. | |
crucially to report on progress towards meeting it. Now is the time | :42:05. | :42:10. | |
to make an unambiguous -- unambiguous commitment to reduce | :42:11. | :42:13. | |
child poverty and to measure our progress through setting a target. | :42:14. | :42:16. | |
The social and economic costs of failure are too great to risk and a | :42:17. | :42:22. | |
target can help to coordinate an approach across government, so | :42:23. | :42:25. | |
reducing poverty should be incorporated into strategy is being | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
developed on social justice, housing and industrial policy. The issue of | :42:30. | :42:38. | |
child poverty is one that affects members of both sides of this House | :42:39. | :42:44. | |
and I really welcome him and his bill coming forward today and I'd | :42:45. | :42:46. | |
like to congratulate him on that and to make the point in looking at the | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
Bill, does he acknowledge that there are many other factors that could be | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
looked at as well, one we're looking at poverty. Not just income, but | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
things such as rural poverty as well, that affects many children | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
around the country. I'm grateful for that intervention. She's right. What | :43:04. | :43:07. | |
I've done so far in this speech is outlined the moral case for action | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
on poverty, but also there's a sound economic one as well. We should | :43:12. | :43:17. | |
recognise that focus is necessary, in order to build an economy that | :43:18. | :43:22. | |
really works for everyone. Action on child poverty today can strengthen | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
our economy, improve productivity and reduce pressures on the public | :43:27. | :43:32. | |
purse. Both the IMF and the OECD have highlighted how poverty acts as | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
a drag on economic growth, reducing poverty will also strengthen our | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
economy. Not least because the less well-off households spend more of | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
the money they receive than those which are better off. When we hear | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
about those who are, as the Prime Minister described them, just about | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
managing, we must all seek to understand the reality of those | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
people's lives. Many families are just one bill away from finding | :44:00. | :44:02. | |
themselves struggling. Those families have been feeling the | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
squeeze four years, with half of households seeing no meaningful | :44:07. | :44:12. | |
increase in pay since 2005. Over the last decade, real earnings have | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
fallen by more than 10%, which the TUC points out leaves the UK equal | :44:17. | :44:22. | |
bottom league table amongst OECD nations, joint only with Greece. | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
This has been the longest pay squeeze in over a century. Poverty | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
also increases the demand on the public purse, being responsible for | :44:33. | :44:38. | |
one in every ?5 of public spending, put simply, poverty will make it | :44:39. | :44:41. | |
even harder to balance the books in the future. I will give way. A quick | :44:42. | :44:49. | |
point, it isn't just about now, but poverty amongst children creates | :44:50. | :44:52. | |
conditions in which those children don't thrive in the future. And | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
actually, it will cost us more in the future dealing with the poverty | :44:57. | :45:02. | |
that are children are experiencing today, food, education, prosperity, | :45:03. | :45:06. | |
health, etc. Absolutely. My honourable friend is absolutely | :45:07. | :45:10. | |
right. This is about investing in our future as a country. Research | :45:11. | :45:14. | |
from the Joseph Rowntree foundation estimates that the annual cost to | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
the public purse comes to ?78 billion. That's why it's penny wise | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
but Pound foolish to cut investment in early years interventions. I'm | :45:25. | :45:29. | |
going to make a bit of progress, if I may. It is therefore with some | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
concern that the House of Commons library analysis shows that since | :45:35. | :45:37. | |
2010, investment in sure start children's centres have been cut by | :45:38. | :45:43. | |
half. That has resulted in over 300 local centres closing. Those social | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
challenges of poverty, gaps between the richest and the rest of our | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
society in our schools, and with poor health, all come with economic | :45:52. | :46:00. | |
costs. As well as we -- redirecting public spending, poverty makes it | :46:01. | :46:03. | |
harder to achieve the productivity gains that workers and the economy | :46:04. | :46:06. | |
desperately need. This matters, because for too many families, work | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
no longer pays. Two thirds of children in poverty grow up in the | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
home where at least one parent works. So while the government | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
rightly highlights the role that work can play in moving people out | :46:19. | :46:24. | |
of poverty, taking a comrades approach requires action to support | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
those trapped on low incomes, so they can progress into better paid | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
jobs -- copper heads of approach. Four in five people who went to | :46:33. | :46:38. | |
low-paid work remained low paid ten years later. The upcoming industrial | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
strategy can two steps to support those workers. It should feature a | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
plan to support low-wage industries and government can also play a role | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
by bringing together employers and trade unions to focus on raising | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
productivity, which is the key to increasing pay. Localised pay | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
commissions could also play a role in areas dominated by low pay. By | :47:01. | :47:06. | |
taking action now on low pay we can recognise the realities of the | :47:07. | :47:10. | |
modern world of work for so many and in doing so reduce child poverty. | :47:11. | :47:16. | |
There is vital work under way across the country to support families who | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
have hit hard times. In my Barnsley constituency, the local anti-poverty | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
board, led by Councillor Jenny Platts wings together local partners | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
to support residents. They identify those families most in need, then | :47:31. | :47:36. | |
target resources to provide debt advice, information on Fuel Poverty | :47:37. | :47:39. | |
Action to sound healthy eating programmes. Despite that local | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
effort, more than one in four children grow up in poverty and | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
Barnsley. So today, I stand here to give a voice to those 5114 children. | :47:49. | :47:54. | |
I would like to take this opportunity to place on record my | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
thanks to the child poverty action group, who have long campaigned on | :48:00. | :48:03. | |
this issue and I'm very proud to have their support for my bill. I'd | :48:04. | :48:07. | |
also like to thank the Parliamentary clerks and those many stakeholders | :48:08. | :48:10. | |
who have lent support through this process. I will give way. I'm | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
grateful to my honourable friend for giving way. He's making incredibly | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
powerful speech. We'll see also join me in welcoming the work the | :48:19. | :48:23. | |
anti-poverty charities like Magic Breakfast do, who are providing | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
primary school breakfast clubs to tackle child poverty. Does he agree | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
with me that we shouldn't need charity to make sure that children | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
are well fed or well closed, or that families have the right level of | :48:36. | :48:39. | |
income? These are structural issues with our economy and its vital | :48:40. | :48:42. | |
government not only commits to a target, but the action to rebalance | :48:43. | :48:47. | |
our economy in a fair away. My honourable friend makes an important | :48:48. | :48:50. | |
point and I'm sure all others on this side and I hope many others on | :48:51. | :48:55. | |
the other side of the House will absolutely agree with him. What it | :48:56. | :48:58. | |
does neatly as take me really to the nub of this issue. I brought this | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
bill forward because millions of children in Britain need real | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
change. Poverty destroys childhoods and limits futures. Ending that | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
burning injustice should be a defining mission for the government. | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
A century ago, Joseph Rowntree demanded action on poverty. He made | :49:18. | :49:21. | |
the case to a Liberal government that the prevalence of poverty in | :49:22. | :49:25. | |
Britain would undermine its continued presence as a world power. | :49:26. | :49:32. | |
That sense of national purpose, in tackling poverty, was also witnessed | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
most memorably during our country's darkest hours. In 1942, in the | :49:36. | :49:42. | |
middle of a world war, Winston Churchill's coalition government | :49:43. | :49:45. | |
published the beverage Report. It defined in national minutes -- | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
mission that would follow in peace time under Clement Attlee. Today, at | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
moment of great uncertainty for our country that at any time since, | :49:56. | :49:58. | |
ending poverty once again deserves to be unrelenting effort. Brexit | :49:59. | :50:06. | |
should not be used as an excuse for inaction. Instead, it should provide | :50:07. | :50:10. | |
the reason for a new approach. Britain's place in the world | :50:11. | :50:14. | |
tomorrow will be brighter if we focus on child poverty today. | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
Solving this historic problem should be part of a modern national | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
mission. Our success as a country will increasingly require is to meet | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
our duty to those who are left behind, to provide security, | :50:30. | :50:35. | |
opportunity and hope to those who need it most. To end poverty so that | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
every child can realise their potential. That has to be our | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
ambition. It should be that unites us all, so letters set ourselves | :50:46. | :50:52. | |
that target once more. Thank you. The question is that the bill be now | :50:53. | :51:00. | |
read a second time. Kate Green. I'm going to speak only for a very short | :51:01. | :51:04. | |
time come because time is very tight. I warmly welcome this very | :51:05. | :51:08. | |
important legislation. Prior to entering this house I was part of a | :51:09. | :51:14. | |
coalition of well over 100 organisations that came together in | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
the end child poverty campaign, to Professor -- to press for the | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
legislation that was eventually passed in this Parliament and became | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
the 2010 child poverty act. That set out both targets for the reduction | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
of child poverty across a range as my honourable friend has said of | :51:30. | :51:34. | |
four measures, not just one, but a range of targets, but more | :51:35. | :51:40. | |
importantly still perhaps, it also highlighted the need for cross | :51:41. | :51:43. | |
government and cross civil society strategies to address all the | :51:44. | :51:47. | |
dimensions of poverty, housing, education, employment, parenting and | :51:48. | :51:52. | |
child well-being. What we saw between 1997 and 2010, as Labour set | :51:53. | :51:57. | |
about reducing child poverty and set targets for doing so, is that | :51:58. | :52:00. | |
targets are the most powerful tool we have for driving progress and | :52:01. | :52:07. | |
measuring and taking action when progress falters. It's right that | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
the government continues to emphasise the importance of | :52:12. | :52:14. | |
addressing poverty with its new measures, but when two thirds of | :52:15. | :52:18. | |
children in poverty are growing up in families where someone is in paid | :52:19. | :52:21. | |
work I just have to say to the Minister that a target that simply | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
looks at worthlessness misses one of the key and perhaps most disgraceful | :52:26. | :52:33. | |
aspects of child poverty today. No working parent should be struggling | :52:34. | :52:36. | |
to provide for and care for their children. That shames our country. | :52:37. | :52:41. | |
It shames a country as rich as ours that one in four children continues | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
to grow up poor. I know that there is consensus right round the House | :52:46. | :52:50. | |
for the importance of the Bill that my honourable friend brings forward | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
this afternoon. We need more than warm words. We need media sold | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
targets established in legislation, committed to by government and the | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
determination of policies and the resources to achieve them. It can be | :53:05. | :53:12. | |
done, it must be. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I did debate on my | :53:13. | :53:16. | |
mind giving time whether to get up but I understand the Minister has | :53:17. | :53:19. | |
quite a few remarks to make any way, which would take us through the | :53:20. | :53:24. | |
time. I wanted from this bench, there was a response to an excellent | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
speech from the member for Barnsley Central in moving this bill and I | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
made perhaps complements him, it's pleasing to hear that sort of | :53:34. | :53:36. | |
quality of performance from those benches at this time on a Friday | :53:37. | :53:39. | |
than it would be to hear it just after 12 o'clock on a Wednesday, | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
with six questions to pursue your agenda. In terms of what is set out, | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
I think it's welcome that there's a bill before the house about looking | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
at how we target reductions of child poverty. I look at my own | :53:52. | :53:57. | |
constituency, particularly parts have very high levels. I have an | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
area like a poor man's sandbanks, the large numbers are quite wealthy | :54:03. | :54:06. | |
retirees live, and the other side of the hill a large number of working | :54:07. | :54:09. | |
families, particularly working families who work in lower paid | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
industries such as tourism and the care sector. So for me it is welcome | :54:14. | :54:18. | |
to see the debates and some of the ideas on it. One of the things I've | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
always had is thought we might don't just look at relative incomes. | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
Probably the honourable will agree, just to have a debate or a target | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
that reflects actually those on the lowest incomes may not change, but | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
if others come down in theory relative poverty has disappeared. | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
However, if you've got, for me it's about those on the lowest incomes | :54:42. | :54:43. | |
are coming up, getting more opportunities and getting more | :54:44. | :54:52. | |
ability. I reiterate fully and also would like to say how important this | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
is and how it affects all of those within our constituencies. For me, | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
its rural poverty that is a real big problem, because we also like rural | :55:03. | :55:07. | |
services, buses, the ability for children's life chances to lift | :55:08. | :55:10. | |
themselves, but I would like to say that I agree with the honourable | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
member for Stratford and Urmston that this is a complex issue, | :55:15. | :55:18. | |
because house prices and rental prices has an acute place to play | :55:19. | :55:24. | |
here. Absolutely, I would fully agree, and if you are living in a | :55:25. | :55:29. | |
wealthy rural community and you are in poverty there's a sense of social | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
isolation as well. You will be at school having your friends having | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
certain things and what others are getting, and at schools, the point I | :55:38. | :55:42. | |
going to make, this sort of bill could be developed in future | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
sessions to include what we do around educational attainment | :55:48. | :55:50. | |
because one big thing we see almost a double hit of poverty that someone | :55:51. | :55:55. | |
grows up in a family where there is deprivation, but then those on free | :55:56. | :56:00. | |
school meals don't do well in our education system and I can remember | :56:01. | :56:03. | |
was hearing or speech from the member for Surrey Heath in which he | :56:04. | :56:07. | |
pointed out that less pupils in the entire cohort of free school meals | :56:08. | :56:14. | |
had got three Days the passport to a top university, than had actually | :56:15. | :56:18. | |
got out of Eton, just one group, soak I'm aware of the time but I was | :56:19. | :56:23. | |
conscious to minister would have spoken to the mark anyway, but I | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
felt from these benches we had why this bill is something that's not | :56:28. | :56:31. | |
just Labour members are pleased to see, not just the Scottish party | :56:32. | :56:34. | |
members but the ones that backbenchers will be pleased see and | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
why I hope it will be taken forward another time. Order. Order, the | :56:39. | :56:44. | |
debate to be resumed what day. The 24th of February, Madam Deputy | :56:45. | :56:49. | |
Speaker. Friday the 24th of February. Point of order. | :56:50. | :57:01. | |
My bill was due to be read for the second time today, but that has not | :57:02. | :57:09. | |
been the case. I want to thank the 100,000 members of the public who | :57:10. | :57:12. | |
have signed a petition, but I want to recognise Tim 's poor families | :57:13. | :57:24. | |
who have travelled to be here today. The government which will object to | :57:25. | :57:28. | |
the bill, but there is lots of support for this across the House, | :57:29. | :57:31. | |
even from the honourable gentleman himself, and I am working by the | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
government. Today is not the day, but there will be a day for Helen's | :57:37. | :57:43. | |
law. I understand the point the honourable gentleman is making. He | :57:44. | :57:47. | |
knows that from the chair I cannot as a matter of order do anything | :57:48. | :57:55. | |
about the fact that this bill has not yet been reached. But I also | :57:56. | :58:02. | |
appreciate it is sometimes difficult for those who do not have a full | :58:03. | :58:06. | |
grasp of Parliamentary procedures, which is most people... How true. As | :58:07. | :58:17. | |
honourable members indicate that includes a great number of people | :58:18. | :58:23. | |
who sit in this house, but the point I would like to make to the | :58:24. | :58:27. | |
honourable gentleman is that the fact that his bill has not been | :58:28. | :58:32. | |
reached today is not an indication that his bill is not held in high | :58:33. | :58:38. | |
esteem, and it is not an indication that the points which he would have | :58:39. | :58:47. | |
raised in his bill would have had a lot of support in this house and | :58:48. | :58:52. | |
what he is trying to achieve. It is very worthy. As he said, there will | :58:53. | :59:02. | |
be another day. In fact, we are just coming to that now. Unlawful | :59:03. | :59:10. | |
killing, recovery of remains Bill, second reading. Objection taken. | :59:11. | :59:18. | |
Second reading, what day? Friday the 24th of February. Friday the 24th of | :59:19. | :59:24. | |
February. And that will be the other day. Guardianship, missing persons | :59:25. | :59:34. | |
Bill, second reading. I beg to move. The question is it will now be read | :59:35. | :59:39. | |
a second time. As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, | :59:40. | :59:46. | |
"no".. The eyes have it. Protection of family homes, enforcement and | :59:47. | :59:55. | |
development Bill. On behalf of the member I beg to move. Object. | :59:56. | :00:00. | |
Objection taken. Second reading on what day? Friday the 24th of | :00:01. | :00:08. | |
February. Cram Tennessee's Bill, second reading. I beg to move. The | :00:09. | :00:13. | |
question is the bill now be read a second time. As many as are of the | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no".. The ayes have it. Cue gardens | :00:18. | :00:27. | |
leases Bill, second reading. With permission, now. The question is the | :00:28. | :00:33. | |
bill be read a second time. As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
the contrary, "no".. The ayes have it. I beg to move this house do now | :00:37. | :00:49. | |
adjourned. The question is this house do now adjourned. Thank you, | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker. I am grateful to have the opportunity to lead this | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
debate and I wish to thank my honourable friend, the member for St | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
Helens North, for championing Helen 's Law in this house last year a | :01:03. | :01:10. | |
tireless campaign after Helen McCourt was murdered in 1988. This | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
is not a speech I would ever wish to make. On the 15th of June, 1995, | :01:15. | :01:20. | |
Miss Jane Harrison disappeared following a trip to Wood Green | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
shopping Centre. She has never been seen again and her body has never | :01:25. | :01:31. | |
been found. She was just 22. She was murdered by her jealous and | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
controlling partner, Kevin Doherty. Jane left behind a grieving family, | :01:36. | :01:41. | |
devastated parents, sisters and two young sons, then aged 14 and 18 | :01:42. | :01:47. | |
months old. I would like this house to acknowledge the presence of | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
Jane's family in the public gallery today. I know that Harrison 's would | :01:52. | :02:02. | |
be very grateful for the opportunity to meet with the Minister in person | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
to discuss their case. The path to justice for the Harrison family has | :02:06. | :02:07. | |
been long and at times impossible. In January, 2013, after 18 years of | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
heartache and agony for the family, Kevin Doherty was finally sentenced | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
to 12 years in jail for manslaughter. At the time of Jane's | :02:17. | :02:23. | |
murder he was leading a double life. He was married to someone else with | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
whom he had other children, but was also in a relationship with Jane. | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
Together they had a baby and Jane had a teenage son from a previous | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
relationship. Doherty was a controlling partner and had been | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
abusive to Jane previously. On the day of her disappearance of the | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
couple were seen arguing near the flat on Powys Road, Islington. The | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
last trace of Jane was at 5pm on Wood Green shopping Centre by items | :02:53. | :02:59. | |
by the family holiday to Florida. However, Doherty had already | :03:00. | :03:02. | |
cancelled the plans for the holidays without Jane knowing because he knew | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
they were not going. He claimed he had later dropped her off at her | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
mother's house and she had never returned home. Jane was reported | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
missing by him the following day. It was not until 2012 that | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
technological advances allowed for analysis to be undertaken which | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
proved that Doherty had lied to the police in 1995 when he had been | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
originally arrested. He had claimed that Jane had called a landslide at | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
the family flat twice after she had disappeared. On both occasions they | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
happened in the presence of witnesses. Call analysis in 2012 | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
showed the calls had been made from Doherty's mobile telephone. | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
Furthermore, his movements in the days after Jane's disappearance did | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
not tie in with cell site data. What happened on June the 16th, 1995 | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
remains largely unknown. But we do know Doherty killed Jane and no one | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
else has ever been investigated as being connected to this case. His | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
manslaughter conviction in 2012 should have provided the House and | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
family with closure, but 12 years is not enough for a man who took away a | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
loving mother, sister and daughter from her family. At the same time he | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
has never expressed any remorse for Jane's murder, nor has he ever | :04:31. | :04:36. | |
revealed the location of her body. His final act of remorseless cruelty | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
has meant that the Harrison family has never been able to give Jane the | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
dignity of a funeral and a resting place. The Harrison 's have never | :04:45. | :04:51. | |
had somewhere to visit together on anniversaries, somewhere to place a | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
bunch of flowers. Jane's parents Phyllis and John devoted their lives | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
to search for justice for their daughter and raised the two beloved | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
sons she left behind. But they died before they were ever able to see | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
Doherty finally brought to justice. Jane's sister Claire Tobe it was her | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
mother's dying wish that Jane was found and laid to rest with her | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
parents. But Doherty has denied the family this source of closure, so I | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
hope the Minister can emphasise with the horror the Harrison is felt when | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
they discovered that Doherty, the same man that not only murdered | :05:33. | :05:39. | |
Jane, but had concealed her body for 22 years could be eligible for | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
parole next year, six years into the 12 year sentence. I thank my | :05:45. | :05:51. | |
honourable friend. Why we are waiting on Helen's law there is | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
nothing to shop the parole board changing its guidelines and I would | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
like to hear the minister today say what he is going to do to act on the | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
letter I received in May 2016 to say this will not be reviewed by the | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
parole board. When will we hear that those guidelines are going to be | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
updated so that people like Doherty will not be released on parole? Can | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
I agree with my honourable friend? In the English legal system it does | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
not require the convicted murderer to admit guilt or to reveal the | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
location of the victim's remains before being released on parole. It | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
should be common sense that Kevin Doherty, like Ian Simms, the | :06:35. | :06:41. | |
murderer of Helen McCourt, should under no circumstances be eligible | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
for applying for parole. The law must be changed to acknowledge the | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
suffering that Doherty has caused the Harrison family. I wish to | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
reaffirm support for the campaign lead in Parliament by my honourable | :06:54. | :07:01. | |
friend. Murderers like Doherty must be denied parole for as long as they | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
refuse to disclose the whereabouts of their victim's remains. Secondly, | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
Doherty and those like him must serve a full life tariff without | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
option of parole or release until the murderer discloses the location | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
and enables the recovery of their victim's remains. This must retain | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
regardless of their behaviour in prison. Thirdly, the following | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
rarely used common law fences must automatically be applied in murder | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
and manslaughter trial is without a body, that of preventing the burial | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
of a body and conspiracy to prevent the burial of a body, disposing of a | :07:41. | :07:47. | |
body, obstructing a coroner, as applied in the case of Regina versus | :07:48. | :07:54. | |
Hunter, 1974. These pieces of legislation serve to properly | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
enforce laws already in place but rarely used. Currently such | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
decisions are made by the parole board on a case-by-case basis, but | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
the law needs to change so the law is by default on the side of victims | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
and their families and not of the murderers. Even putting aside the | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
family's pain and grief, these murderers are dangerous. By refusing | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
to admit their guilt and by denying families a | :08:23. | :08:33. | |
small act of closure, they demonstrate their culpability and | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
their very real threat to society. Sadly honourable members will know | :08:38. | :08:39. | |
that Jane Harrison is one of so many devastating cases where a body has | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
never been found. I would like to take the opportunity to remind the | :08:43. | :08:45. | |
House of the other prolific murderers were the body has never | :08:46. | :08:52. | |
been recovered, including Helen McCourt in 1988, 22, Keith Bennett | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
in 1964, 12 years old, Paul Morrison in 2011, 32 years, Daniel Jones, | :08:59. | :09:06. | |
Essex, 15, Suzanne Pilley from Scotland in 2010 and Little April | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
Jones in 2012 who was just five years of age. Each of these families | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
have suffered untold grief without the humanity of a funeral and a | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
peaceful resting place. Since 2007 there have been 30 murders across | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
England and Wales were no body has been recovered. In every single one | :09:28. | :09:35. | |
of these cases, a murderer who continues to torment the families of | :09:36. | :09:38. | |
the victims in such a cold-blooded way should be under no circumstances | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
eligible for freedom. Jane's killers should not have the option of | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
freedom until Jane's family are granted the dignity of a final | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
resting place. Without robust laws in place our justice system can go | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
horribly wrong. Take the example of Sidney Cooke, a convicted child | :09:58. | :10:04. | |
molester and serial killer. He was sentenced to 19 years in 1989 for | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
the manslaughter of 14-year-old Jason Swift and was guilty of murder | :10:10. | :10:16. | |
of seven-year-old Mark Tyldesley. But in 1989 his sentence was reduced | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
to 16 years and he was paroled in nine years later in April, 1998, | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
having refused rehabilitation in prison and having never reveal where | :10:29. | :10:31. | |
Mark Tyldesley's body was to his bereaved parents. Mercifully he was | :10:32. | :10:37. | |
arrested in 1999 and received two life sentences. But our justice | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
system has made terrible mistakes in the past and we must now, to stop | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
this happening in the future, act now. The policy of nobody, no | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
parole, is in force in South Australia and is being considered at | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
federal level. Under this law convicted murderers are given an | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
opportunity to cooperate with the police in exchange for parole | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
options. All states in Australia have considered something like this | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
with South Australia and Victoria taking the lead in its | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
implementation. The law will only apply to people who have the | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
opportunity for parole anyway, meaning a person could not get a | :11:22. | :11:29. | |
lesser charge for information on the whereabouts of a body if they had no | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
chance for parole on the outset. At the same time describing the | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
location of the body would not allow a murderer to be released early. The | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
parole board should still have the final say and could deny it. | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
As of now, Australia is the only country that has implemented | :11:46. | :11:52. | |
something like this. Myself and my honourable friend and many others | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
firmly believe that the UK could lead the way and be the second | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
country to enshrine this law. This would not only give grieving | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
families the chances for some closure, but also serve as a future | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
example to others. I hope that the Minister will today outlined the | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
Ministry of Justice's plans to amend the law to reflect the | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
ground-breaking and fair mechanism, delivering justice to families that | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
deserve it and to the memories of so many. Jane Harrison's family cannot | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
be let down by our justice system and I hope the Minister will agree | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
with me that we all have a duty to preserve Jane's memory. Jane should | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
be remembered in life more than a death as a loving mum, sister and | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
daughter. This wasn't an easy speech to write and this is a very | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
difficult subject for any of us to talk about, so I would like to end | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
with a few words from Jane's sister, Claire, who has fought for years for | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
justice for her sister. We were so close and we spoke every day. She | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
was a wonderful sister and a devoted mother. I know that the last thing | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
that my sister thought of the day she died was hurt two boys. This | :13:01. | :13:07. | |
grief that we have carried for 22 years doesn't get easier, it gets | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
harder each day. And not to have some closure, somewhere for us to | :13:12. | :13:18. | |
gather, to lay flowers, it's simply absolute agony. I want to ask the | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
Minister what if this was a member of your family? Can you put yourself | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
in our shoes? Can you stand to see a man who had caused such devastation | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
walk free? Please help others, for the sake of our whole family and the | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
memory of our wonderful Jane, and for all those who have had to suffer | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
the same agony before and since, please listen. Minister. Thank you, | :13:43. | :13:52. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker. I would like to congratulate the honourable | :13:53. | :13:55. | |
member for Richmond Morden for securing this important debate | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
today. I would like to begin by expressing my deepest sympathies to | :14:01. | :14:03. | |
Jane Harrison's family. It's impossible to imagine the pain they | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
have experienced and continue to suffer, after losing Jane in such | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
tragic circumstances. I would also like to take this opportunity to | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
extend my deepest sympathies to bury McCourt, who has tirelessly | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
campaigned for a law change in memory of her daughter, Helen. On a | :14:20. | :14:26. | |
personal level, when considering this debate and indeed the private | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
member's bill of the honourable gentleman from St Helens North, I | :14:31. | :14:38. | |
recall the sight of Winnie Johnson, the mother of Keith Bennett, who | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
died never knowing where her son was buried, and indeed her face etched | :14:43. | :14:51. | |
with agony on the anniversary of her off the Moors murders stays with me. | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
To lose us loved one in such circumstances is truly horrendous. | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
The fact that Woody was denied the opportunity to give her some proper | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
burial is too awful to comprehend, so I understand why do you have | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
secured this debate and why the honourable gentleman is pursuing his | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
campaign for Helen's Law. The honourable lady has set out the | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
background to the case. I must stress that is a Justice Minister I | :15:17. | :15:19. | |
would not normally comment on individual cases. She'll be -- this | :15:20. | :15:26. | |
case involves a conviction for manslaughter, not murder. I did not | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
think it would be helpful to revisit that conviction or discuss what | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
amounts to manslaughter or murder. It might be helpful to me explain | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
the different options available when sentencing for manslaughter and the | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
different consequences of this sentences. Murder is the only | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
offence that carries a mandatory life sentence. In every case where | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
someone is convicted of murder, they will receive a life sentence. Apart | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
from the most serious cases, who will receive a whole life order, the | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
court will set a tariff for that offender. That means they will serve | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
a minimum time before they are considered for release and will only | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
be released by the independent parole board when they consider it | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
safe to do so. Manslaughter on the other hand has a maximum penalty of | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
a life sentence, but it is a discretionary rather than a | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
mandatory life sentence. The judge can impose a life sentence, or any | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
other sentence short of a life sentence, having considered all of | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
the factors in each case. The length of a custodial sentence imposed must | :16:32. | :16:33. | |
reflect the culpability of the offender and in the case of | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
manslaughter this can vary widely, given the wide range of behaviour | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
which the offence covers. Defendants convicted of manslaughter can and do | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
receive standard determinate sentences, in contrast to a life | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
sentence, and since the introduction of the criminal just act 2003, | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
prisoners serving a standard determinate sentence are | :16:57. | :16:58. | |
automatically released at the halfway point in their sentence. The | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
remainder of the sentences served on licence in the community. While on | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
licence, offenders will be subject to probation supervision and the | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
licence will include appropriate conditions. If an offender breaches | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
these conditions they may be recalled to prison. I should stress | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
that those offenders serving standard determinate sentences are | :17:20. | :17:22. | |
released automatically by statute and not considered for release at | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
the discretion of a body such as the parole board. It's also worth noting | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
that an offender convicted of manslaughter, serving a determinate | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
sentence of whatever length, will not be eligible for release earlier | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
than the halfway point and the home detention curfew scheme. The | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
judiciary are of course aware of how sentences are structured when | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
determining the appropriate sentence in a particular case, and explain | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
the effects of the sentence in open court. Therefore any offender | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
subject to do offence and -- determinate sentence will be | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
released at a fixed point irrespective of whether they admit | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
their guilt or cooperate with the authorities. There is no discretion | :18:03. | :18:05. | |
under the law to hold them beyond the sentence imposed by the court, | :18:06. | :18:08. | |
to change this would require a very significant change in the law and in | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
sentencing generally. It also raises some practical issues, which I want | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
to mention briefly. These are similar issues to those which the | :18:19. | :18:21. | |
private members bill from the honourable member for St Helens | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
North has championed, otherwise known as Helen's Law, in response to | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
the murder of Helen McCourt. I must stress the government sympathises | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
with the calls for a Helen's Law. I met, along with my colleague the | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
honourable member for St Helens North, to discuss his private | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
member's bill earlier this week. I congratulate him on his approach. | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
During that meeting. I would also like to express my respect and | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
admiration for Marie McCourt, who has led the campaign for Helen's | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
Law. I would like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to her | :18:55. | :18:57. | |
commitment to this issue and her tireless work over many years. As I | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
said earlier, any murder is horrific and no family should have to go | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
through such traumatic experience, with the added pain of not knowing | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
the whereabouts of their loved one and being denied the chance to lay | :19:10. | :19:12. | |
them to rest. For this reason the government welcomes the discussion | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
of the unlawful killing -- the unlawful killing ruck Rickert -- | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
Lawful Killing (Recovery of Remains) Bill has generated. His bill does | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
not present a legally sound solution to this difficult issue, in short, a | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
proponent -- proposes to deny released to those who refuse to | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
disclose the place of the victims' remains. There are some concerns in | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
how these proposed changes can be delivered, concerns regarding the | :19:45. | :19:47. | |
legality as well as the potentially adverse effect it would have on the | :19:48. | :19:50. | |
families of victims if they were to be made aware of the information | :19:51. | :19:55. | |
disclosed by offenders. As the victims' Minister I will always | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
represent and work hard toward delivering in the best interest of | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
victims of crime, such as I intend to ensure that any changes made to | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
the current process are tailored towards delivering a just and fair | :20:09. | :20:15. | |
outcome. I do not want today to get into any technical or legal details | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
during this debate, but let me just say that we have all to be careful | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
not to support something that would create perverse incentives for | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
offenders to lie about where the victim's remains are located, to try | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
and secure release, or to further torment victims' families. There's a | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
risk that each and every time an offender claimed to remember when | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
the victim's remains had been buried they would have to be taken | :20:39. | :20:41. | |
seriously, which could result in them being allowed to leave prison | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
temporarily to help authorities search for the body. In that regard | :20:47. | :20:48. | |
I think once again about Woody Johnson. We don't want offenders | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
creating false stories to toy with victims' families or to create false | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
hope. The further pain and anxiety inflicted upon victims' families as | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
a result of this is simply unthinkable. And additionally, | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
whilst the government has been unable to examine the billing | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
detail, there are several other complex practical and legal issues | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
arising from the proposals. These could avoid -- include avoiding | :21:12. | :21:18. | |
oratory sentences, being clear about the level of cooperation required | :21:19. | :21:21. | |
and whether it needs to lead to a successful outcome and avoiding | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
unlawful retrospective at locations of provisions. I would however like | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
to reassure the house that government is taking this issue very | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
seriously. As already mentioned, I met with the honourable member for | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
St Helens North this week to discuss his bill and the options going | :21:38. | :21:40. | |
forward. The government understands the importance of this issue and is | :21:41. | :21:43. | |
committed to considering what more can be done. I want to place on the | :21:44. | :21:55. | |
record my thanks to him in the Ministry of Justice for meeting with | :21:56. | :21:58. | |
me this week and the approach they have taken, which is a constructive | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
one. Notwithstanding what he has said about some of the practical | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
difficulties, I don't believe any of those are insurmountable. In terms | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
of the impact on victims, for Marie McCourt and her family, for Jean | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
Harrison's family, the thing that is causing them most torment and | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
anguish is the thought that the murderer of their loved ones will be | :22:22. | :22:24. | |
released from prison and the Minister should make no mistake | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
about that whatsoever. -- Jane Harrison. I thank the honourable | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
gentleman for his intervention. Of course I get that. The government | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
bowed to the independent parole board last year and asked them to | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
review its guidance -- wrote to the independent parole board. In regard | :22:45. | :22:51. | |
of prisoners who don't rip accept responsibility for their offence and | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
refuse to disclose the location of their victim. The parole board is | :22:55. | :22:57. | |
strengthening its guidance, which will be issued in the spring. | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
Clarifying the issues that may need to be considered, where the offender | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
does not disclose the whereabouts of the victim's body. Whilst it | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
reaffirms that the parole board's primary focus is on the risks to the | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
public it makes clear the offender with holding this information may | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
raise factors that are relevant to risk and therefore can result in the | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
offender not being released. The parole board continued to improve | :23:21. | :23:23. | |
and develop the way they liaise with and involves victims in their | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
decision-making. I very much welcome their approach, which recognises how | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
difficult it must be for victims to engage in any consideration of an | :23:32. | :23:34. | |
offender's release. In addition to this the government is aware of the | :23:35. | :23:37. | |
recent developments in some other countries, and we will be examining | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
these approaches in more detail and seeing how they are working in | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
practice. Mercifully these cases are rare, but we will consider whether | :23:48. | :23:50. | |
they should be appropriate for our justice system in England and Wales. | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
With reference to one question that was raised, regards to the family | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
having a chance to influence the conditions of release. I don't think | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
it's appropriate for me here to discuss individual details of the | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
case. As has previously been said by the Department, we will be happy to | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
meet with the family to update them. I know that the family have been | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
kept informed of any of developments in this case by the victim liaison | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
officer in the national probation service in relation to any move to | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
open conditions and on the eligibility and conditions of any | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
temporary release. In conclusion, I would like to end by a gain | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
extending my deepest sympathies to the family of Jane Harrison and | :24:35. | :24:36. | |
thank the honourable member for drawing this issue to the attention | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
of the house. As victims Minister I firmly believe that victims are the | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
heart of our criminal justice system and I know this is a deeply | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
distressing and troubling issue for victims' families. There is sadly no | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
solution here and I can tell the honourable lady that we will examine | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
all the options that might provide a lawful and effective way to | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
encourage offenders from withholding information. We all agree that we | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
should consider any practical solution that would allow families | :25:07. | :25:16. | |
to lay their loved ones to rest. The question is this House do now | :25:17. | :25:28. | |
adjourn. As many as of that opinion say aye. The ayes have it. Order, | :25:29. | :25:30. | |
order. | :25:31. | :25:33. |