Browse content similar to 22/02/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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aviation Bill. Second reading, what day? Any day! Tomorrow. Tomorrow. | :00:00. | :00:09. | |
Thank you. We come now, colleagues, to the ten minute rule motion. James | :00:10. | :00:20. | |
Berry. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I beg to move the leave be given for me to | :00:21. | :00:26. | |
bring in a bill to amend section 48 or the Lee Valley regional park act | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
1966 to remove the power of the Lee Valley regional park authority to | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
raise funds by way of levy on any local authority whose local | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
authority area falls outside the area defined under section 2.2 of | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
that act and for connected purposes. Like so many people in this country, | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
I love our parks and open spaces. I enjoy walking in the stunning parks | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
we enjoy in south-west London almost every weekend, and I doubt that I | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
can improve on the conclusions of local government committee to Mac' | :00:57. | :01:04. | |
-- local government committees' excellent reports. Parks are | :01:05. | :01:10. | |
essential to the lives of their communities, providing leisure, | :01:11. | :01:16. | |
exercise and also are fundamental to community cohesion, physical and | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
mental health and well-being, biodiversity and local economic | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
growth. I would be pleased to welcome any member of this House to | :01:24. | :01:26. | |
one of our excellent local park in the royal borough of Kingston upon | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
Thames, to the injured Fairfield in Kingston, fish ponds part, Toloa | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
court farm, Chessington or Beverley park in new Maldon to name but a | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
few. All of these parks are open for the public to enjoy, and all are | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
maintained with Kingston taxpayers' money. The same is the case for | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
virtually every part of the country, local taxpayers pay for their local | :01:52. | :01:58. | |
parks. But Lee Valley park is different, it is paid for by local | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
ratepayers but also by ratepayers of every single London borough, and | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
this includes my borough of Kingston upon Thames, which is about as far | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
away from the Lee Valley as one can get within Greater London. Let me be | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
caveat said. I have no quarrel with the Lee Valley regional park. It is | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
an excellent facility enjoyed by many Londoners full stop my simple | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
contention is that at a time when councils are having to reduce their | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
own parks budgets, it is no longer justifiable that hefty sums are | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
levied on London borough to maintain a park that is miles away and seldom | :02:32. | :02:41. | |
used by their resident Mac. S. The Lee Valley regional park authority | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
was created in 1966 to maintain the valley, it is a 10,000 acres amenity | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
from Hertfordshire to East India Dock, and as well as the counties of | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
Essex and Hertfordshire, seven out of London's 32 boroughs have parts | :02:55. | :03:00. | |
of their park within it. It contains several state-of-the-art Olympic | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
sporting venues such as the Whitewater venue for the Olympics, | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
and this was partially funded by the Mayor of London's Olympic precept | :03:10. | :03:18. | |
which Londoners have footed the bill for. The clause in the act allows | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
the authority to raise funds for the upkeep of the park by way of a levy | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
on every London borough as well as three councils immediately outside | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
London. This unusual funding model might have been appropriate in 1966, | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
and certainly this House deemed it so 50 years ago, but rather like the | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
England football team's fortunes, the financial position of local | :03:41. | :03:42. | |
authorities was rather more favourable in 1966 than it is now. | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
Local authorities have had to make significant spending cuts following | :03:48. | :03:55. | |
repeated cuts to their grants, and will have to continue to do so. | :03:56. | :04:02. | |
Councils are having to retreat to meeting the increasing demand of | :04:03. | :04:05. | |
statutory services like adult social care at the expense of discretionary | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
services including parks. The Si Yajie committee's report shows that | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
92% of local authority parks departments have experienced budget | :04:14. | :04:20. | |
reductions in the last three years. Kingston's Conservative council has | :04:21. | :04:22. | |
rightly maintain funding on parks, but that is a political commitment | :04:23. | :04:25. | |
the Conservative group made in the 2040 local elections and one that | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
comes at the opportunity cost of funding in other discretionary areas | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
that other councils have chosen to prioritise, so it is against this | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
backdrop that there is increasing disquiet, particularly south of the | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
Thames, at having to pay the Lee Valley park's massive annual levy. | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
The opportunity to present this ten minute rule Bill is timely, because | :04:47. | :04:49. | |
local authorities receive their demand from the authority just | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
before recess on February ten, and the 2017/18 levy is over ?10 | :04:55. | :05:02. | |
million. I should point out this is a small reduction, and a welcome | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
reduction on last year's levy. But it is out of step with the reduction | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
in funding for local authorities over the same period. The demand on | :05:10. | :05:17. | |
my local authority of Kingston is 160,000 pounds, and over the same | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
period, Kingston Council will be spending ?1.3 million on parks, | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
trees and ground maintenance within our borough, Sir R ratepayers would | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
rightly ask me when our own services are under pressure they are being | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
forced to pay a sum equivalent to 10% of our borough's own parks | :05:36. | :05:42. | |
budget to maintain apart 20 miles and -- away which most never use and | :05:43. | :05:49. | |
some have never heard of. A number of arguments will be levied against | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
me, the first that believe Valley park is there for the enjoyment of | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
all Londoners, so the cosh should be shared across London. But as would | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
be expected, there is an uneven distribution of visitors, with the | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
number of visitors coming from contiguous borrowers far | :06:06. | :06:07. | |
outstripping the numbers coming from other boroughs, particularly south | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
of the river, and this is borne out by the visitor statistics for last | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
year, with show that 6005000 visits were made by residents from Waltham | :06:17. | :06:24. | |
Forest, yet only 5000 by Kingston resident and 4000 by Sutton | :06:25. | :06:30. | |
residents. Dividing the resident levied by the number of visitors, | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
the cost per visit tells an interesting story. A visit from each | :06:34. | :06:40. | |
Waltham Forest resident costs 32p per visitor. A visit from a Kingston | :06:41. | :06:49. | |
resident costs my local council ?32 per visitor, and I suggest that is | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
unreasonable. A visitor from Sutton costs their council ?46.92 per | :06:54. | :07:01. | |
visit, and the levy bears no relation to the number of visitors | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
from a borough in the previous year. I suggest even if my bill is not | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
carried, the funding formula is in need of radical review. Another | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
point that might be made against me is that the Lee Valley park would | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
suffer from a loss of funding from all London boroughs, let me be | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
clear, I do not want to see any diminution in the quality of the | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
park. There are many other funding models. The levy on local | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
authorities proximate to the park could be increased, though that | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
clearly would not be popular with those local authorities. The park | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
could be funded by central government in the same way that the | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
royal parks and national parks are. Or the part could find ways to | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
reduce its frankly very high outlay. Its budget is twice that of the | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
largest park in the country, the Lake District national park, 58 | :07:53. | :07:55. | |
times the size of the Lee Valley regional park, or it could increase | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
its revenue, including through the use of the amazing sporting | :08:02. | :08:03. | |
facilities it has been gifted at the taxpayers' expense. And the noble | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
lord Trew offered some suggestions to this effect in the Other Place | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
last March. I do not pretend to have a solution today for the future | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
funding model of the park. That will be a matter for debate and | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
consultation in the future. So in conclusion, Mr Speaker, it is my | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
contention that the Lee Valley regional park authority should have | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
it statutory power to levy local authorities outside the area in | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
which it sits should be removed. This is also the contention of | :08:33. | :08:35. | |
colleagues on the Government benches who have kindly lent their support | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
to this bill. The contention of London's Conservative council | :08:41. | :08:42. | |
leaders and of the Greater London authority Conservative group in the | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
London assembly, and having reviewed reports on the note Lee Valley | :08:47. | :08:55. | |
campaign, a number of representatives across the political | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
divide agree, too. The Lee Valley regional Parks act passed through | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
this House over 50 years ago when the financial position of local | :09:04. | :09:05. | |
authorities was very different to that today. In straitened times, | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
when local authorities are being required to cut their own parks' | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
budgets, it is simply not right that vast sums are being levied | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
year-on-year by the Lee Valley authority on boroughs like Kingston | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
to pay for the upkeep of a park many miles away that is seldom used by | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
their residents. I hope that the Lee Valley regional park has a long | :09:28. | :09:30. | |
future, but not at the expense of taxpayers in Kingston or across | :09:31. | :09:38. | |
London. The question is that the honourable member have leave to | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
bring in the Bill. Stella Creasy. Mr Speaker, I rise to oppose this | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
legislation, and I hope the honourable gentleman opposite will | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
give me an opportunity to explain why. Let me declare straitened | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
foremost as a member Parliament for Waltham Forest I'm a regular user of | :09:58. | :09:59. | |
the Lee Valley park authority spaces. I have been to the ice rink. | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
I'm afraid I haven't been on the horses. I certainly walk the | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
wetlands. I also as a young child enjoyed the parks of Kingston, my | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
grandparents living in Surbiton. And it is for that reason I believe that | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
this legislation that the gentleman proposes is fundamentally misguided, | :10:22. | :10:24. | |
because he misses the point of the value of regional Parks for London | :10:25. | :10:32. | |
and for all of our constituents, for the benefit of maintaining and | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
developing beautiful spaces for recreation, nature and enjoyment for | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
all our constituent Roumat, and I hope at the time available to me | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
that I can set out the five reasons I believe that white he might feel | :10:46. | :10:47. | |
he is standing up for the residents of Kingston, he actually may be | :10:48. | :10:49. | |
selling them short. Even born respect the fact that | :10:50. | :11:11. | |
London needed green spaces. We referred to Lee Valley's authority | :11:12. | :11:18. | |
is London's lung. It has 10,000 acres of Greenland benefiting every | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
single resident of London. Patrick Abercrombie, who argued for the case | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
of this park never saw it as simply benefiting those who live nearby, | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
recognising the investment or the regions could make in that park | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
benefiting every constituents. When he talks about the visitor numbers, | :11:39. | :11:45. | |
I share his concern, not as many of his residence, as my residents, use | :11:46. | :11:51. | |
the park. I would encourage them to come to the park and benefit from | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
the green lung. He talks about citizens in Kingston not having | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
heard of the Lee Valley Park. Many will have watched and visited the | :12:01. | :12:06. | |
Olympics. VuliVuli regional Park played a key part in the Olympics. | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
Many constituents cheering on Joe Clark as the won GB's first medal. | :12:13. | :12:22. | |
While he thinks he is talking up for his constituents, he may understand | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
their pride on what the Lee Valley Park delivered during the Olympics | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
and continues to deliver. When he talks about visitor numbers, we have | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
seen a 50% increase in people coming to leave early. That is directly | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
because people saw the benefits of having the Olympic recreational | :12:42. | :12:43. | |
facilities on our doorstep in London. It is more than that, not | :12:44. | :12:51. | |
just about whether people are coming, it is the concept of a green | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
lung. The air quality in our city has never been worse. Constituents | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
coming to him like they do me about the air quality in London, and their | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
concerns. The value of green spaces become more paramount, not just to | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
those living in the area, the member for Richmond jumping up and down. | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
The same argument comes for Richmond Park. The value of the spaces | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
becomes bigger, not smaller when we are facing such a crisis with the | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
quality of air and the quality of our environment in this city. The | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
fact we have 14 sites of scientific interest in VuliVuli Park identifies | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
the specialisms we have there. I would like to invite the member for | :13:32. | :13:39. | |
Kingston, instead of not visiting, come and see the benefits of the | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
Walthamstow wetlands. A National site of significance. The crucial | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
pressure for all of us. I would like to invite all the members opposite | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
to you: see the Walthamstow the herons the cormorants we have in | :13:54. | :14:03. | |
London. This is the point. Sometimes we invest together because we | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
benefit together. Lee Valley regional Park authority is exactly | :14:08. | :14:15. | |
that. Set up in the 1960s to recognise the mutual investment in | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
green spaces in London. In the 21st 2017, the case for the spaces grows | :14:21. | :14:32. | |
even bigger. Certainly the member opposite's could ask about the | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
funding for the Royal Parks. Whether or not, I did listen to what he | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
said. I did look at his legislation, not suggesting a similar cut in the | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
Royal Parks funding, reflecting concern about whether residents from | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
Kingston go to the Royal Parks. That is the point are invest in these | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
regional organisations for our mutual benefit. I recognise the | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
point he's making about local government cuts. Maybe he should be | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
talking to the front bench about the way the funding level for local | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
government has gone down, rather than skimping in saving on such | :15:11. | :15:16. | |
valuable regional authorities. If we only ever see Parks is valuable to | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
people who live directly next to them, of which I am one of them, I | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
recognise that. We missed the point of the benefit of having these | :15:26. | :15:28. | |
authorities. Rather than trying to cut corners, he makes the case to | :15:29. | :15:35. | |
the front bench of that proper investment in local government, | :15:36. | :15:37. | |
proper funding for local government. Not trying to cut the funding to | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
this green lung for London that his constituents can benefit from. | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
Encourage his constituents to come and use the facilities they are | :15:48. | :15:55. | |
painful. He will find a warm welcome in the north-east corner of London. | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
While I recognise the member for Kingston may think he is making a | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
case for the residents of Kingston, I believe the residents of London, | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
which the residents of Kingston and Surbiton are some, they deserve | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
better for all of us. To think strategically, invest in regional | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
parks like this. To see London as potentially an urban green part in | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
the future. To invest in green spaces, to recognise the benefits | :16:22. | :16:24. | |
for all of us. Fully small amount of funding entails. To make a case of | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
local funding for government. This bill does not do any of these | :16:30. | :16:32. | |
things, I don't believe it should proceed further in the House. There | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
are others from our part of London and across the country who will come | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
and benefit from the Walthamstow wetlands, he will agree with me. The | :16:42. | :16:49. | |
question is that the honourable member have leave to bring the bill. | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no".. I | :16:54. | :17:04. | |
think the ayes have it. He will bring in the bill. Bob Blackman, | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
Neil Stewart. Mike Freer, Victoria Royo. Syriza Villiers, and me, Sir. | :17:11. | :17:27. | |
Lee Valley regional Park Amendment Bill. Second reading stop 24th of | :17:28. | :18:02. | |
March. We come to motion number two on the police grant report, England | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
and Wales. To move, I called the Minister, Brendan Lewis. Thank you | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
Mr Speaker. I bid to move that the police grant report, laid before | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
this House on the 1st of February be approved. In addition to seeking | :18:18. | :18:24. | |
approval, I think it is right to outline the context in which we find | :18:25. | :18:27. | |
it covers the work around the continuation of the job we have of | :18:28. | :18:35. | |
seeing through police reform. This funding settlement provides a fair | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
and stable funding for the police, providing essential policing reform | :18:41. | :18:42. | |
and tremendous summation to go further and faster, so we make sure | :18:43. | :18:51. | |
we have support from the vulnerable, supporting crime fighting in our | :18:52. | :18:58. | |
communities. Today I'm seeking this House's approval for the second | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
reading. We protected police spending last year, and I'm pleased | :19:04. | :19:10. | |
to say that the 20 17th funding settlement maintains protection for | :19:11. | :19:18. | |
police spending. -- the 2017 - 18 settlement. On December 15 Islay | :19:19. | :19:29. | |
-- I laid before the House the funding, along with a ministerial | :19:30. | :19:44. | |
statement, after careful consideration of the consultation | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
responses. We have decided force level allegations will be as | :19:50. | :19:56. | |
announced in December. I believe providing stable funding is the | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
right way to allocate. I am concerned that the Minister may have | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
inadvertently misled the House. He has said here's been able to protect | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
police budgets, after the precept is taken into account. That is not the | :20:12. | :20:14. | |
case in greater magister police, they had to cut front line policing | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
even though they used the whole precept power. Will he correct the | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
record? Greater magister police is a good example of a police force that | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
has increased reserves. Across the sector they have increased reserves | :20:32. | :20:37. | |
by 400 million. The reality is for policing when the precept is taken | :20:38. | :20:40. | |
into account we are delivering on the spending review statement, the | :20:41. | :20:43. | |
funding settlement maintains protection for police spending. Our | :20:44. | :20:51. | |
police forces do a great job, they need funding to support vital work. | :20:52. | :20:53. | |
So-called traditional crafts the direct accountability and | :20:54. | :21:11. | |
transparency with the policing crime commissioners. | :21:12. | :21:35. | |
They are taking ?1 billion of savings. Does the Minister intend to | :21:36. | :21:45. | |
shift more money away from London, after the level of 700,000,020 15? | :21:46. | :21:52. | |
Will he say whether he will fund the national and capital cities grant? | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
The Home Secretary is appointing a new commissioner with the mayor. The | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
Minister must recognise there are special responsibilities in London | :22:02. | :22:04. | |
which the government should engage with? This statement is per the | :22:05. | :22:12. | |
written statement in December. He is referring to the work we are doing | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
to the police funding formula. That work is ongoing, I was with the | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
mayor this morning. I do not recognise the figure he outlines. | :22:22. | :22:27. | |
700 million. I have spent a lot of time with the mayor in the last | :22:28. | :22:30. | |
couple of days. Not something he has outlined to me. I look forward to | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
hearing how he is come to those figures. The 2017 and 18 | :22:35. | :22:45. | |
settlement... I will give away. He is making a lot of sense on this | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
issue. Bedfordshire, from a financial 's point, one of the most | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
financially challenged police forces. Kathryn Holloway has found | :22:55. | :23:01. | |
planning to put 100 more officers on the front line. We can do things to | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
increase front line policing. Can he say more about the timing of the | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
funding formula? That will make a very big difference in Bedfordshire. | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
I will not be in position to outline the new funding formula, that work | :23:17. | :23:22. | |
is ongoing. In terms of timing, I will give a flavour. Police forces | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
around the country have done some interesting work, and good work | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
around performance. More officers spending time on the front line is | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
giving up as a percentage. Gone up 50%. We are using resources | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
properly, ensuring uniformed police officers are on the front line | :23:43. | :23:45. | |
working for their communities. There is some good work going on. | :23:46. | :23:51. | |
Bedfordshire, I met the PCC and the council in Bedfordshire, as I did in | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
London. Talking about the changes they face. As a county, where they | :23:57. | :24:02. | |
have real work to do with a urban centre in Luton. Good examples in | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
Bedfordshire and elsewhere about police forces working with other | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
forces, as Bedfordshire does, and working with other agencies, the | :24:12. | :24:14. | |
Fire brigade, ambulance, to see operational benefits, bringing | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
savings and a better service for communities. I thank the Minister | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
for giving way, and the engagement with the North Yorkshire PCC, on the | :24:23. | :24:28. | |
challenges of rural policing. Could I urge to look at recommendations of | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
his department's technical reference group, including population is the | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
best predictor of police demand, and should be a key part of any future | :24:38. | :24:43. | |
funding formula for rural areas? I thank my honourable friend for his | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
comment. I'm very happy to be engaged with the excellent PCC in | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
Bedfordshire and North Yorkshire, with Julia Mulligan. There is | :24:52. | :24:58. | |
another good example of a police and crime commission delivering for the | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
front line, looking to find savings, to deliver even better and wider | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
services or the local community. In terms of coming up to my honourable | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
friends question about the timeline and the technical reference group, | :25:13. | :25:15. | |
there are two groups working. Academics, police crime | :25:16. | :25:21. | |
commissioners, and chief constables. I am grateful for the work of all of | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
them, to be involved in that group. To come and see me. I still have an | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
open door policy for any he want to come see me to talk through this, to | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
put forward ideas that they are working through. In terms of | :25:38. | :25:39. | |
Thailand, I'm clear from the beginning. I will just finishing | :25:40. | :25:41. | |
answering the previous questions before I give way further. I have | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
been clear from the beginning, this is a very big piece of work. | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
Important piece to get right. Rather than setting timelines I want to let | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
the groups do their work, to report to us. There are decisions we have | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
to make. I'm keen we get the work done, equally I demand to pressure | :26:00. | :26:01. | |
them with having a specific time frame. Honourable friends will have | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
to bear with us. Important rather than rushing this, we take the time | :26:07. | :26:08. | |
to get it right. I would just like to ask the | :26:09. | :26:22. | |
Minister weather, although it says within the special areas, sparsity | :26:23. | :26:32. | |
and rurality are taken into consideration. It is important for | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
our area. If we go by population, suffered will be 3000 less than | :26:38. | :26:49. | |
Norfolk -- Suffolk. The Suffolk PCC was in in the last week or two just | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
making that very point. There is a piece of work to do at the moment. | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
The technical reference group, the senior group, will be making those | :27:00. | :27:02. | |
recommendations to us. I'm not going to prejudge the outcome. It is right | :27:03. | :27:08. | |
to let the experts do their work to see what the fundamentals should be. | :27:09. | :27:14. | |
This sentiment also includes extra resources for national programmes | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
including the transformation fund which enables forces to undertake | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
essential policing reform. Last year, we provided help to PCCs. | :27:25. | :27:33. | |
Stable funding for the police force. It means every PCC who maximises | :27:34. | :27:41. | |
their local precept will receive the same direct resource funding in cash | :27:42. | :27:47. | |
as they received in 2015, 2016. I can also report of the House that | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
local council tax precept income has actually increased faster than | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
expected. This means we can not only meet our planning assumptions but we | :27:56. | :28:02. | |
can also increase our national investment in police reform and | :28:03. | :28:05. | |
transformation faster than expected. This make sure police officers are | :28:06. | :28:12. | |
given the tools to perform and able to perform in the change in the | :28:13. | :28:20. | |
nature of crime. I hope he agrees that the outstanding Labour PCC Ron | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
Hogg and chief constable who is working hard to make the force more | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
efficient, which he also recognise forces like Durham are hindered in | :28:30. | :28:36. | |
being able to raise the amount of precept? In Durham, 55% of | :28:37. | :28:45. | |
properties adding banned a -- are in Band A so it doesn't generate as | :28:46. | :28:56. | |
much money as Surrey. I met the police chief constable and PCC | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
recently, this came to see me to outline some of the points he just | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
made. It is correct to say there are differences around the country and | :29:07. | :29:08. | |
we got to make sure we recognise that different areas will have | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
different abilities to raise money locally based on their council tax | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
base, he's absolutely right. I represent a constituency were | :29:18. | :29:19. | |
something like 80% of our property falls into the law tax band so I | :29:20. | :29:34. | |
appreciate the point -- law, lower. My honourable friend is making | :29:35. | :29:36. | |
sensible observations on the changing profile of crime and the | :29:37. | :29:49. | |
rural of crime. It is different in rural areas. Difficult jobs that | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
require police presence cannot be offset by technology. That must be | :29:55. | :30:00. | |
understood in this review. My honourable friend makes a very good | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
point as always and is one of the realities of their time with the way | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
policing is changing and it's important we have local | :30:10. | :30:16. | |
decision-making around police and are able to redirect resources to | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
meet the basic demands of their area. This year, we have created the | :30:21. | :30:27. | |
police transformation fund because the grant settlement is not the only | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
source of money for policing. The fund has already provided investment | :30:31. | :30:37. | |
to tackle cybercrime and other emerging crimes and has created an | :30:38. | :30:44. | |
uplift in capacity and the fund will increase to ?175 million next year, | :30:45. | :30:50. | |
a ?40 million increase and we will allocate specific funding to | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
counterterrorism to make sure terrorism capabilities -- accounts | :30:54. | :31:03. | |
to combat terrorism capabilities are maintained. This reinforces our | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
commitment to protect the public from the threat of terrorism. This | :31:10. | :31:15. | |
House and the public can be in no doubt the police will have the | :31:16. | :31:17. | |
resources they need to do their crucial work and will be given the | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
investment necessary to provide a more modern and efficient service. | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
My honourable friend will agree that we have the most professional armed | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
police officers in the world and the statistics of fatalities bear that | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
out but would you agree that forces outside London have two upscale | :31:36. | :31:38. | |
there aren't capacity to match the level we have in London in view of | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
the terror threat that affects the whole country? This comes back to | :31:43. | :31:48. | |
the point when it's important that local Police and Crime Commissioners | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
are able to insist what is right for them and to work across policing. It | :31:54. | :32:01. | |
is being nature the police forces are working across areas and coming | :32:02. | :32:04. | |
together for the benefit of the country. The Metropolitan police has | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
a big part to play in that as a large part of policing in this | :32:09. | :32:15. | |
country. This year 's's efficiency report raised a concern that some | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
forces may have eased up on the pace of reform in the last year so it is | :32:20. | :32:28. | |
a clear challenge from us to police leaders to ensure this is not the | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
case in 2017, 2018. Maintaining funding should not mean police take | :32:35. | :32:40. | |
their foot off the gas. What I can assure this gas is that this | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
Government will do its part to support forces to make the | :32:45. | :32:46. | |
transformation more efficient and I want to update the House on the | :32:47. | :32:49. | |
steps we are taking to give the police the tools they need to | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
transform. We are increasing the size of the transformation fund by | :32:54. | :32:59. | |
?40 million and this will enable additional investment in cross force | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
capabilities, exploring new technology, driving efficiency and | :33:04. | :33:06. | |
improving how we respond to changing threats. The first year of the fund | :33:07. | :33:12. | |
has demonstrated that it is supporting and incentivising | :33:13. | :33:22. | |
policing to meet new challenges. The key to the success of this work is | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
that it is sent a lead. Through the police reform and transformation | :33:28. | :33:32. | |
board, the police transforming themselves to meet Japan's, the | :33:33. | :33:40. | |
demands of the future. But the police presence in place, there is | :33:41. | :33:43. | |
more that can be done to create compelling investment proposals and | :33:44. | :33:46. | |
the functional also allowed the best ideas from across policing for | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
transformational change to be developed and delivered so in 2017, | :33:51. | :33:57. | |
2018, we will invest further ?32 million to continue major uplift in | :33:58. | :34:05. | |
firearms capacity so we can respond quickly to any firearms attack. I | :34:06. | :34:10. | |
expect proposals endorsed by the National crime agency to go further. | :34:11. | :34:18. | |
Organised crime is a growing and diverse national security threat | :34:19. | :34:20. | |
that cost the native kingdom at least ?24 billion a year. It leads | :34:21. | :34:27. | |
to loss of life, praise on the vulnerable, creates negative role | :34:28. | :34:34. | |
models and communities -- in communities. We need to ensure that | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
police forces have the right tools to do the job and improve | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
efficiency. Thank you to the Minister for finally giving way. The | :34:46. | :34:53. | |
most outstanding police force in the country for efficiency is Durham. | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
Can you tell me why that has not been rewarded? This year, for | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
example, the budget in the funding formula will mean the force will | :35:04. | :35:10. | |
face ?700,000 less than it had last year. What it would say to the | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
honourable gentleman, I have already accepted an intervention once | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
already so I'm surprised at his opening comment! He has made a good | :35:20. | :35:26. | |
case for why it is important we do this funding review to make sure we | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
get a formula not based on the one that has been in place for decades | :35:31. | :35:35. | |
that many police forces are unhappy with. We will deliver on our | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
manifesto pledge to create a fair funding formula for police. What the | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
public are noticing is a reduction in visibility in terms of policing | :35:46. | :35:51. | |
in neighbourhoods. They will match what they have seen on the ground | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
with complacent statements they have heard today. We need to get | :35:55. | :36:00. | |
transparency. The promise at the 20 15th spending review was wheeled -- | :36:01. | :36:07. | |
real term protection for the police. Has he met that promise or not? We | :36:08. | :36:13. | |
have met that promise. For the Police and Crime Commissioners who | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
maximise their precept, the ad in the same positions is no matter how | :36:18. | :36:20. | |
many times you ask the same question, you will get the same | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
answer. I thank the Minister for giving way. | :36:27. | :36:40. | |
Order! I didn't hear anything that was said that was out of order. If I | :36:41. | :36:49. | |
didn't hear it, I can't act on it, but at this point, the honourable | :36:50. | :36:52. | |
gentleman is intervening so we will hear that. I can't comment on | :36:53. | :36:58. | |
something I didn't hear. Intervention. When the Chancellor | :36:59. | :37:08. | |
announced in 2016 the police budgets would continue to be protected in | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
cash terms assuming council tax was maximise, I like many others | :37:14. | :37:16. | |
welcomed the news. Last year's cuts in grant funding were 0.6% and this | :37:17. | :37:23. | |
year's provisional settlement outlined a further 1.3% cut to | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
direct resource funding. How does that square with what the Minister | :37:28. | :37:35. | |
has said? Last year we protected police spending were precept is | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
taken into account in the overall level of Government funding | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
allocated to police is exactly as announced in the 20 15th spending | :37:43. | :37:50. | |
review at 8400 and ?97 million. That's why I am delighted because it | :37:51. | :37:59. | |
lets us implement provisions that will further help policing in | :38:00. | :38:08. | |
future. It's better tackles emerging threats, they can go further and | :38:09. | :38:12. | |
faster and make sure money is spent on the front line delivering for the | :38:13. | :38:14. | |
communities in which the police work. There is evidence that shows | :38:15. | :38:20. | |
closer collaboration between emergency services. Can it improve | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
public safety, secure more proficient services and deliver | :38:25. | :38:26. | |
better value for money for taxpayers. I strongly support has | :38:27. | :38:34. | |
efforts to get stronger collaboration and efficiency. Does | :38:35. | :38:38. | |
he accept however that when these reviews are formally going on, they | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
often don't take into account the capacity in different kinds of | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
forces to make change? If you're a large, or an authority you have huge | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
capacity for change. If you are a small, rural police force, it is | :38:53. | :38:55. | |
much more difficult. Will that be taken into account? It is a very | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
good point and we are looking at all of these factors as we work through | :39:01. | :39:07. | |
that process. The chief constables and Police and Crime Commissioner | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
you're are doing that work to make sure that it is fully informed when | :39:13. | :39:14. | |
we come through with the process and no doubt we will be discussing that | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
in this House in due course. What we have seen is Police and Crime | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
Commissioners and chief constables up and down the country already | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
collaborating and pooling resources to improve effectiveness. That is a | :39:28. | :39:36. | |
credit to them. I think... Thank my honourable friend for his case. I | :39:37. | :39:46. | |
encourage him to proceed in the way he has outlined because my local | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
constabulary in Cambridgeshire is working on things that forensics, | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
fires, dogs and homicide and has become more efficient and the tragic | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
Joanna Dennehy murders of two or three years ago would not have been | :40:02. | :40:08. | |
solved as efficiently without cross county collaboration by police | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
forces. My honourable friend is right and having met his Police and | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
Crime Commissioner earlier this week, they were able to exemplify | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
some of the great work being done and also working to make sure they | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
deliver the opportunities that the act gives them in terms of bringing | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
together the fire and police force to see even further efficiencies. | :40:31. | :40:40. | |
Efficiency has increased, but can only take us so far. Londoners are | :40:41. | :40:48. | |
playing ?61 in their council tax every year to make up the shortfall | :40:49. | :40:54. | |
that should come from national funding. When the Minister looks at | :40:55. | :41:02. | |
funding further, will he look at regional and local authorities, and | :41:03. | :41:04. | |
what they are contributing at the moment? I do agree with the | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
honourable gentleman, as they go through the work, in terms of the | :41:10. | :41:13. | |
review work we look at the functions coming in at a capital city, like | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
other parts of the country. It is true that we do pay extra money into | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
London. We have to remember the Metropolitan Police is by far the | :41:23. | :41:25. | |
best funded police force in the country. Accounts for 25% of all | :41:26. | :41:33. | |
funding. Very well funded police. So I want to make some progress. We | :41:34. | :41:39. | |
have to make sure we support greater collaboration, and to support this, | :41:40. | :41:45. | |
the act contains revisions to enable policing crime commissioners to take | :41:46. | :41:48. | |
over responsibility for local Fire Services where that case is made. | :41:49. | :41:54. | |
That means we can maximise the benefits of joint working at local | :41:55. | :41:57. | |
level, and bring the same accountability to fire as does | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
policing this the settlement for 2017 and 18 is not impacting by the | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
police called grant distribution review, maintaining the pr cis | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
distribution we have used in recent years. I give way to my honourable | :42:13. | :42:16. | |
friend. Would you not acknowledge that it will be different in | :42:17. | :42:20. | |
different places? Wilts and Dorset went from a consolidation. It would | :42:21. | :42:34. | |
mean more costs being spent on reorganisation when we just had won | :42:35. | :42:38. | |
on the Fire Service. It needs to be done carefully, county by county. My | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
honourable friend makes a very good point, highlighting is important | :42:43. | :42:49. | |
should be locally driven thing. The actors is an enabling power, not a | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
regulatory power. I know his own PCC are looking at how they can be more | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
involved without necessarily changing the excellent work done to | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
find savings over the last year or so. A number of honourable members | :43:04. | :43:09. | |
and honourable friends have mentioned distribution reviews, | :43:10. | :43:12. | |
while I'm talking about the funding formula, it would be remiss not to | :43:13. | :43:18. | |
answer questions on that review, as there is clearly widespread | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
interest. We are continuing the process of widespread engagement. I | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
have been meeting all PCCs who want to discuss the issue. I can ensure | :43:28. | :43:33. | |
the House no funding regions will be put in place without a full proper | :43:34. | :43:39. | |
public consultation. I want to highlight, the 2017 and 18 funding | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
settlement does provide a fair and stable funding for police forces. It | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
increases funding for the police transformation fund, to make sure | :43:49. | :43:51. | |
police leaders are given tools to support reforms. And the | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
capabilities they need to respond to the changing nature of crime. We are | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
protecting police spending, meeting our commitment to finish police | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
reform so we can make sure we and the police are helping the | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
vulnerable, cutting crime and supporting our communities. I | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
commend this motion to the House. The question is, as on the order | :44:14. | :44:22. | |
paper. We on this side of the House deplore the approach this government | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
has taken to police funding. They have broken their promise to | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
parliament that they would protect front-line policing. They have let | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
police forces across the country not have the money they need to keep | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
citizens safe from crime. Funding cuts every single year, there are | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
now 21,000 fewer police officers than they were in 2010. That is what | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
this government has done for policing. Moreover, they are | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
persistently failing to introduce a funding formula linked in any | :44:55. | :44:57. | |
meaningful way to the different needs for different areas. When they | :44:58. | :45:03. | |
did try, it literally did not add up, and had to be withdrawn. Now we | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
see, in the motion we are debating today that for another year they are | :45:09. | :45:17. | |
salami slicing the budget again. Cuts across the force. Regardless of | :45:18. | :45:22. | |
need. They decided they could not run their own funding model, because | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
they said it was broken. They have not been able to build a new one, | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
despite trying for four years. This is incompetence, the action of a | :45:33. | :45:38. | |
panicked and out of touch government. Forced to make bad | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
decisions that bear little relation to the community's needs. Because of | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
lack of capacity, which is a problem of their own creation. I thank my | :45:49. | :45:54. | |
honourable friend for way. Would she agree that the 4.9 real percentage | :45:55. | :46:00. | |
cut in Gwent, and the cuts in south Wales will put front-line policing | :46:01. | :46:03. | |
at risk in those areas? Does she agree we have spent time with | :46:04. | :46:09. | |
front-line police officers as part of the Parliamentary policing | :46:10. | :46:11. | |
scheme. They front-line officers I have met do not recognise the rosy | :46:12. | :46:18. | |
picture painted by the Minister. I agree with my honourable friend, | :46:19. | :46:21. | |
appreciating the work he has done with the police parliamentary | :46:22. | :46:25. | |
scheme. He understands what real policing is all about. No wonder, | :46:26. | :46:31. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, last week the outgoing head of the Metropolitan | :46:32. | :46:35. | |
Police said, and I quote, it is getting difficult, the bottom line | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
is that there are less cops. I cannot see any other way. Only so | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
much you can cut and make efficiencies, then you have to have | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
less police. I am not sure whether that is wise. We do not believe it | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
is wise either, Madam Deputy Speaker. Would my right honourable | :46:55. | :47:01. | |
friend agree, the payments are not been distributed equally across the | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
country? In Durham we have lost 25% of our police officers since 2010. | :47:07. | :47:12. | |
Nationally the averages 12%. Surrey has only lost 1% of the officers. I | :47:13. | :47:18. | |
would certainly agree. I think it is shambolic. We believe that this was | :47:19. | :47:28. | |
unwise. Broken promises, let me give history. In 2011, David Cameron said | :47:29. | :47:35. | |
there is no reason for there to be fewer front line police officers. | :47:36. | :47:38. | |
The number of police officers fell by almost 21,000 since he became | :47:39. | :47:45. | |
Prime Minister. The total for the police workforce falling by over | :47:46. | :47:52. | |
46,000 since 2010. Following a successful campaign from these | :47:53. | :47:55. | |
benches, led by the right honourable gentleman for Lee, he told | :47:56. | :48:09. | |
parliament, now is not the time for further police cuts, there will be | :48:10. | :48:14. | |
real term protection for police funding. These figures show he has | :48:15. | :48:20. | |
broken a promise to Parliament. Between 2015 and 16, and going | :48:21. | :48:27. | |
forward, 2017 and 18, the total amount of grants for police fell by | :48:28. | :48:37. | |
4.4%. The real turn -- turn cuts come on top of the cuts of ?2.3 | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
billion, a cut of 25% in the preceding five years, as shown by | :48:43. | :48:49. | |
the National Audit Office. The motion before us today means next | :48:50. | :48:56. | |
year, after inflation... I'm interesting in the argument that | :48:57. | :49:00. | |
develop. Is she asserting local taxation is not a form of revenue? | :49:01. | :49:11. | |
It is. The motion means next year after inflation funding for London | :49:12. | :49:14. | |
services will be cut by more than ?48 million. The Northumberland | :49:15. | :49:18. | |
police service will find themselves in a position where they have to | :49:19. | :49:22. | |
increase the local tax burden by ?6 million. Just to stand still. | :49:23. | :49:29. | |
Funding for South Wales Police service will fall by over 5% in a | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
single year. Meanwhile, crime, which they keep telling us is falling, I | :49:35. | :49:43. | |
will... I'm grateful for her giving way. The promise in the 2015 | :49:44. | :49:48. | |
spending review was real terms protection. Local tax rises have not | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
made up for the cuts the front bench has given the police. Real terms cut | :49:54. | :49:58. | |
for police services all over the country. Of all ministers in the | :49:59. | :50:01. | |
government, the police Minister should tell the truth at the | :50:02. | :50:08. | |
dispatch box? It will be welcome. Meanwhile, crime which they keep | :50:09. | :50:10. | |
telling us is falling, is around twice what it was previously | :50:11. | :50:16. | |
presumed to have been. As we have learned since January, and inclusion | :50:17. | :50:20. | |
of cyber crime. In London, the proposed settlement does not include | :50:21. | :50:24. | |
the full costs of policing ceremonial and national events | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
taking place, because it is our nation's capital. I will. I thank | :50:29. | :50:37. | |
you, for painting the correct picture, London only get half the | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
money should get nationally. ?61 every Londoner is paying on its | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
council tax to subsidise that. One of the biggest cost is in | :50:47. | :50:49. | |
neighbourhood policing, destroyed under the previous mayor to London, | :50:50. | :50:52. | |
resurrected by the current mayor. Under huge financial pressures. I | :50:53. | :51:00. | |
agree with my honourable friend. In London, if you happen to be a | :51:01. | :51:04. | |
citizen of London, you end up paying more for national events through | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
your council tax than anyone else. Colleagues in London will be pleased | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
to note out of their pockets will come the funding for trips, such as | :51:15. | :51:20. | |
that by President Trump. This underfunding of police services must | :51:21. | :51:24. | |
stop. Our citizens deserve the police force fit for purpose. Our | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
hard-working police men and women deserve a government supporting them | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
to do a job. They minister is being disingenuous trying to imply that | :51:35. | :51:38. | |
these cuts take place without any negative effect in our ability to | :51:39. | :51:46. | |
police effectively. Excuse me. We're starting to see real evidence that | :51:47. | :51:50. | |
neighbourhood policing is suffering as a direct result of the actions of | :51:51. | :51:56. | |
the party opposite. Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary in the | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
latest annual report, and I quote, neighbourhood policing is one area | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
where the day danger of across-the-board reduction in | :52:07. | :52:10. | |
resources is apparent. As chief officers reduce workforces, they | :52:11. | :52:13. | |
would need to include assurances that a smaller police force will not | :52:14. | :52:20. | |
compromise public safety, and explain any effect there may be | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
neighbourhood policing. I share these concerns. Neighbourhood | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
policing matters, not just reassuring local communities, but | :52:29. | :52:35. | |
crucial for crime prevention. Unfortunately, I fear the damage has | :52:36. | :52:40. | |
really been done. To continue the quotation from last year's annual | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
report, we found there are too many forces where there are signs of an | :52:47. | :52:49. | |
ever larger proportion of the workforce being drawn into | :52:50. | :52:54. | |
responding to incidents, leading to a reduction in crime reduction | :52:55. | :53:01. | |
activity. I don't believe the cuts being asked for today will not lead | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
to reduction in neighbourhood policing. I can only assume that is | :53:07. | :53:09. | |
a price the Minister is willing to pay. The problem is compounded by | :53:10. | :53:14. | |
cuts to other front line services, as local authority and mental health | :53:15. | :53:19. | |
services are also being pegged back. It is forced for the police to pick | :53:20. | :53:23. | |
up services when preventable problems become major incidents. | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
This is a problem for police resources. More than that, a tragedy | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
for the individuals, families and communities concerned. Returning to | :53:34. | :53:47. | |
the HMIC assessment, they concluded that society should no longer | :53:48. | :53:56. | |
tolerate these cuts, in a society with disorder, desperation, but | :53:57. | :54:01. | |
these are tolerated because the government has got their priorities | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
wrong. As a result police resources are used to respond to individual | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
cases, that do not count in the crime figures. Forces themselves | :54:10. | :54:16. | |
estimate the crime any accounts for 22% of the number of emergency and | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
priority incidents. When the minister says crime is falling, he | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
is wrong. It is wrong to use that as the justification for funding cuts. | :54:27. | :54:34. | |
The Minister argues, it is OK to cut, because forces can raise local | :54:35. | :54:39. | |
precepts to fill the gap. That is missing the point. Raising the | :54:40. | :54:46. | |
preset, which most forces for understandable reasons are | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
attempting to do is just asking the public to pay more for a political | :54:51. | :54:54. | |
decision, taken on behalf of the government, so they can give less | :54:55. | :54:58. | |
from general taxation. I will make progress. It is passing the buck on | :54:59. | :55:05. | |
a monumental scale. More than that, it is unfair, because some forces | :55:06. | :55:09. | |
are on able to raise the same as others. I will make progress. | :55:10. | :55:15. | |
Depending on local circumstances and the prevailing level of accounting | :55:16. | :55:19. | |
tax. Neither of which bears resemblance to policing needs. In | :55:20. | :55:24. | |
fact, initial results from a current research project at the London | :55:25. | :55:28. | |
School of Economics, which has examined factors driving demand for | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
policing, suggest in general crime levels are significantly higher | :55:33. | :55:38. | |
where house prices are lower. If this is correct, it means shifting | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
towards greater funding through a council tax precept is precisely the | :55:43. | :55:49. | |
opposite of what is required. The communities with the greatest need | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
will have the least ability to meet that need through higher tax rises. | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
All of this suggests the government has a policy on policing is wrong. | :56:00. | :56:05. | |
My real concern is deeper, it is this. I do not think the government | :56:06. | :56:11. | |
has any real idea of whether or not it is jeopardising public safety. No | :56:12. | :56:15. | |
analysis behind the proposals, we are being asked to approve today. | :56:16. | :56:20. | |
The National Audit Office in its 2015 report on the financial | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
sustainability of police forces concluded that, police forces have | :56:25. | :56:30. | |
insufficient funds at Delhi Macca understanding fully the month for | :56:31. | :56:36. | |
the services affecting their cost. -- police services have insufficient | :56:37. | :56:45. | |
understanding for services affecting the cost. It is hard to find out if | :56:46. | :56:51. | |
the service is offering value for money, how can the party opposite | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
shore us that these cuts are safe? Frankly it is a mess. -- assure | :56:56. | :57:06. | |
Russ. We need to understand that but that the attack there. Cannot even | :57:07. | :57:13. | |
come up with a formula funding before is fairly on current need. | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
And understand our responding to future needs must be beyond the | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
capability. Worse than that they are ignoring the work already done. In | :57:25. | :57:28. | |
2014, a group of senior police officers explored how policing | :57:29. | :57:31. | |
should work in an environment of austerity. The report, entitled | :57:32. | :57:37. | |
reshaping policing for the public discussed a wide reshaping of the | :57:38. | :57:43. | |
police force, wide restructuring to get greater bang for the taxpayer's | :57:44. | :57:50. | |
bark. As predicted, by the policing crime commission for Northumbria, | :57:51. | :57:53. | |
the report made its way onto a shelf in Whitehall, currently collecting | :57:54. | :57:54. | |
dust. In summary the government presents | :57:55. | :58:03. | |
itself of the party of law and order but their policy on policing is in | :58:04. | :58:08. | |
shambles. They do not know what forces need or where the taxpayers' | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
money is being spent properly. You cannot see at which point efficiency | :58:14. | :58:17. | |
gains become a threat to public safety. They promised they would | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
protect the front line as they take away the cash that is needed to do | :58:22. | :58:26. | |
so. They passed the Bucks to local taxation even though the areas that | :58:27. | :58:29. | |
need more resources are those with the least ability to raise funds. In | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
the absence of any credible policy they keep cutting every year. In the | :58:35. | :58:42. | |
hope all will be OK. It is not OK. The government's incompetence led | :58:43. | :58:46. | |
down the taxpayer. The broken promises about further cuts to front | :58:47. | :58:51. | |
line services lead in the public and it is insulting to the hard-working | :58:52. | :58:55. | |
and brave police officers across this country. It would be negligent | :58:56. | :59:11. | |
of me, I shall not be speaking for long, to thank our PCC, the 1200 | :59:12. | :59:20. | |
brave officers who serve other than the 1000 staff who support them so | :59:21. | :59:25. | |
admirably across Dorset. I would like to pay tribute to the minister | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
on the front bench who has been given a difficult pack of cards and | :59:31. | :59:37. | |
is dealing with it as best he can bearing in mind that the state of | :59:38. | :59:41. | |
our economy, which we inherited, and to run an effective NHS or police | :59:42. | :59:49. | |
force, we need money. Dorset Police have an overall budget requirement | :59:50. | :59:54. | |
of ?121.3 million. That sounds a lot of money but for the large county | :59:55. | :00:02. | |
like Dorset it is not. Dorset still receives the second lowest grants | :00:03. | :00:05. | |
per head of population. Only surreal receives lest. That has been the | :00:06. | :00:13. | |
case for some years. The comments I have made have been based on | :00:14. | :00:16. | |
comments from the Chief Constable herself and the PCC Mr Underhill. | :00:17. | :00:22. | |
All police forces have faced the same cut in police grant which | :00:23. | :00:29. | |
equates to a cut of 1.4%. This is higher than last year due to top | :00:30. | :00:35. | |
slicing for national projects like the police transformation fund and | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
the emergency services network. In Dorset that 1.4% cut in central | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
government grants these a reduction of over ?800,000. In a letter to the | :00:47. | :00:53. | |
police resources unit the Chief Constable and Mr Underhill said, | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
they are disappointed in the settlement provided to the PCC | :00:59. | :01:05. | |
Dorset. Each police force can raise funds through council tax. The | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
elected PCC in each police force area decide the level of preset | :01:12. | :01:17. | |
levied on the residential council tax bills. It is limited to 2% or | :01:18. | :01:24. | |
triggers a referendum. After local consultation in Dorset and with the | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
clear majority of nearly 80% to approve an increase Mr Underhill | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
agreed to increase the council tax by 1.98% this year. However with a | :01:34. | :01:41. | |
1.4% cut in central funding this means the overall funding remains | :01:42. | :01:49. | |
static. Every year the number of people paying council tax in Dorset | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
increases. Which you would think is good news, it increases the tax | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
base. However that tax base is a direct result of an increase in the | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
number of properties in the county. Which in turn places more pressure | :02:04. | :02:08. | |
on the police service. It is generally accepted and we have here | :02:09. | :02:15. | |
that a new funding formula is being looked at. The government is to | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
replace the existing one with a simplified formula and is consulting | :02:21. | :02:27. | |
on the arrangements. However following the discovery of | :02:28. | :02:29. | |
statistical errors in the funding proposals last year the formula | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
review was restarted. It is not yet finished and I believe it is not | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
clear, maybe he can help, as to when this will be. Dorset still loses | :02:41. | :02:49. | |
?1.9 million while the formula dampens due to the 2009 - 2010 | :02:50. | :02:56. | |
review and the formula never been properly implemented. To balance the | :02:57. | :03:03. | |
books this year Dorset Police strategic alliance with Devon and | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
Cornwall police, which will be welcomed, the fact they are looking | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
far and wide to create more efficiencies, will be required to | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
deliver savings of ?3.9 million and ?12 million over the next three | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
years. These are considerable sums of money. Dorset is way ahead of | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
many police forces in cutting backroom staff and making more | :03:27. | :03:34. | |
efficient. The comprehensive spending review of 2010 resulted in | :03:35. | :03:41. | |
savings. These were due to the fact that the country was in a terrible | :03:42. | :03:49. | |
state. Cuts had to be made. Thankfully in November 2015 the new | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
spending review protected police spending. But this was based on the | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
assumption that council tax would rise every year. The actual | :03:58. | :04:04. | |
settlement for 2016 with a cast reduction of 0.6% and gave no | :04:05. | :04:13. | |
details for future years. Future settlements protect police funding | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
only on the basis that council tax will rise every year. The | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
provisional police settlement is once again only for a single year | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
unlike other government departments which give a four-year preparatory | :04:27. | :04:34. | |
budget. This significantly compromise is the ability for police | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
forces to plan ahead. The police are facing radical reviews and changes | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
and different crime patterns, particularly in areas like rural | :04:45. | :04:52. | |
Dorset. Any new formula needs to provide stability, transparency and | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
certainty. And recognise the needs of a predominantly rural police | :04:58. | :05:08. | |
force like Dorset. I listened carefully to the argument he has | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
been advancing and I agree with much of what he has been seeing. Would he | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
say that the government has honoured its promise to the police that was | :05:17. | :05:24. | |
made in the 2015 spending review? He is playing slightly with figures in | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
the sense that the government has honoured but it depends on the fact | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
that council tax is not raised every single year which in some cases it | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
is not and the various different bands raised different levels of | :05:39. | :05:46. | |
money. He is doing his best. I am grateful. Would he agree that | :05:47. | :05:55. | |
history suggests that very complicated formally invented by a | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
very clever statisticians usually go horribly wrong? There is a great | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
deal to be said in this instance for simplicity and transparency for | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
tilting towards a formula based on population which we can all | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
understand. That would help Dorset and the country as a whole. It is | :06:14. | :06:20. | |
well known that he is an extremely intelligent man. I did not know he | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
was able to foresee what I was about to see in the very next sentence! | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
Maybe he wrote my speech. That is the point I was going to make. A | :06:31. | :06:39. | |
fair settlement would use population, not crime statistics, as | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
a basis for any formula, and I believe he mentioned sparsity which | :06:44. | :06:49. | |
is essential for counties like mine. The population measure is fair, | :06:50. | :06:56. | |
robust, can be monitored, and is not influenced by police action. Crime | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
statistics ignore things like road safety, fear of crime, and assume | :07:03. | :07:05. | |
the same police response for every situation. I hear what he is saying | :07:06. | :07:15. | |
about population but is he saying that any future formula should not | :07:16. | :07:21. | |
take into account poverty, demand in terms of the issues that are faced | :07:22. | :07:28. | |
in cities or areas with particular problems? If he is suggesting what | :07:29. | :07:35. | |
he is suggesting clearly we will get what we have gotten local government | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
where any type of understanding of poverty which relates to crime and | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
anything else is taken out of the formula which will benefit his | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
constituents at the expense of mine. He clearly does not know the make up | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
of my constituency which probably has as much poverty in it hidden in | :07:56. | :08:04. | |
the depths of Dorset as hers. Dorset needs a fairer share of the cake. | :08:05. | :08:12. | |
Whether it be education funding, police funding, any funding. We | :08:13. | :08:20. | |
suffer from huge rural mass which the police force have difficulty | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
getting round. People in my constituency do not often see a | :08:25. | :08:30. | |
police officer and what concerns me are comments that I here if you do | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
not see a police officer that is a good thing. If someone says that, | :08:35. | :08:42. | |
the goodies say that, I am sure the baddies see that as a soft touch and | :08:43. | :08:54. | |
want to go for a day out, which happens all too frequently. Would he | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
agree that there is often an assumption that rural areas are | :08:59. | :09:00. | |
wealthy but in fact rural deprivation is very significant and | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
it often requires to be measured in different ways, and those in rural | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
areas are often below average income but have higher costs? Absolutely. | :09:10. | :09:21. | |
In Dorset and her constituency the deprivation is spread over a vast | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
area. With respect to the member I suspect the deprivation is in a more | :09:28. | :09:30. | |
compact area therefore easier to police. Dorset is a massive area | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
which is not easy to police and deprivation is spread across it. A | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
few points Mr Underhill made in a recent letter to me. Rural | :09:44. | :09:50. | |
communities already struggle to access services on a par with urban | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
communities, public transport, affordable housing and the like. The | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
fear of crime is higher than any urban areas. Confidence in policing | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
is lower in rural areas although this is not a criticism of Dorset | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
Police who do the best job they can. People in rural areas do not often | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
see police areas. -- police officers. They will do not feel the | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
police understand their concerns. The point was made about her | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
coursing. And other rural crime that takes place across Dorset like hare | :10:25. | :10:32. | |
and trespassing. The honourable gentleman talks about | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
confidence in the police. Just last night and my constituency, a | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
convicted murderer was taken to the local hospital in a taxi and | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
absconded because the taxi was called for to return back to prison. | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
Is this part of the problem that he talks about in regard to confidence | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
when police numbers are a factor in taking prisoners to and from | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
appointments outside the prison. Does this need a review of numbers? | :11:05. | :11:11. | |
I hear the honourable member and the example he is giving. I think I read | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
about something now he's mentioned it but not aware of the details are | :11:17. | :11:22. | |
not in a position to comment I hear his concern that he's expressed. All | :11:23. | :11:31. | |
the above will only get worse if the funding for rural police is reduced | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
any further. Finally, can I beg the minister on behalf of Dorset Police, | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
who do a wonderful job for us, please, please, please, when this | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
review is done that all the factors I mention are taken into account and | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
Dorset gets not more of the cake but a fairer share. Delighted to follow | :11:52. | :12:03. | |
the honourable member for South Dorset. We represent very different | :12:04. | :12:10. | |
constituencies but made a thoughtful contribution which exposed many of | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
the flaws in the Minister's arguments about police funding. Each | :12:14. | :12:27. | |
year in the September recess I hold a community consultation across my | :12:28. | :12:35. | |
constituency. And make that point because 1000 people come to around | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
50 meetings and 1000 or more completing surveys, it's a useful | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
time to take the temperature once a year every September on what the | :12:47. | :12:49. | |
issues are that are concerning people. And what's worrying them | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
about their communities. each of them there is an issue. In | :12:54. | :13:08. | |
last year's consultation it came up even more forcefully. People in | :13:09. | :13:21. | |
areas where between 1997 and 2010 patient work properly supported in | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
developing community policing and building partnership had a real | :13:26. | :13:35. | |
impact to reduce crime, Edward enhanced community safety, made | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
people feel positive about the areas they lived in an proud of the areas | :13:40. | :13:42. | |
they lived in. It builds trust in the police. That work has been | :13:43. | :13:54. | |
eroded since 2010 and communities have felt the consequences. South | :13:55. | :14:03. | |
Yorkshire Police has had its problems over the years and had a | :14:04. | :14:06. | |
number of particular issues we've had to | :14:07. | :14:19. | |
confront we now have strong leadership in an outstanding Police | :14:20. | :14:28. | |
and Crime Commissioner Alan Billings and a newly appointed and | :14:29. | :14:31. | |
outstanding Chief Constable Stephen Watson. Like forces across the | :14:32. | :14:38. | |
country, their ability to provide the policing our communities need a | :14:39. | :14:46. | |
severely undermined by the funding that's been made available by the | :14:47. | :14:49. | |
government and I'd like to pay tribute to all the men and women in | :14:50. | :14:56. | |
the South Yorkshire force who do a tough job on behalf of all of us | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
that live in the region and often at enormous personal risk. But it's a | :15:01. | :15:06. | |
tough job, Madam Deputy Speaker that's being made tougher that the | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
cuts they have to do come to terms with. Numbers are key. In 2011 we | :15:12. | :15:27. | |
had a force of 5849 full-time equivalent staff. For 2017-18 we're | :15:28. | :15:36. | |
looking at a force of 4967 and break those numbers down further, what | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
we've seen is an 18% fall in the number of front line police. We've | :15:42. | :15:48. | |
lost almost one in five of those people serving us on our streets. | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
It's almost the equivalent of every police officer in Doncaster gone, | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
wiped out in impacting the force across the region. Civilian staff | :15:58. | :16:08. | |
are down by 24%. Police civilian staff play a critical role in | :16:09. | :16:09. | |
supporting people. Police community support officers | :16:10. | :16:31. | |
who played such a vital role over the preceding years and building up | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
the relationship between communities and police, in developing that trust | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
and identifying the source is a crime on dealing with it before | :16:42. | :16:48. | |
crimes emerged, we lost 27% of those people and all of that has an | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
impact. Both for the communities that depend on policing but also for | :16:54. | :17:01. | |
those who provide it and as the acting chair of South Yorkshire | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
Police Federation told me, she said to me, I represent a talented and | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
committed group of people and she does. They care deeply about the | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
communities that they serve. But she said to me, they feel increasingly | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
that they're doing their job with their hands handcuffed behind their | :17:20. | :17:26. | |
backs. It's not simply that, we are putting them at risk as well. There | :17:27. | :17:33. | |
is an increasing reliance on single crewing, where previously officers | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
worked in pairs in dealing with difficult situations and the | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
Minister will be aware of the appalling attack on Sheffield PC | :17:43. | :17:55. | |
Lisa Bates. A vicious, awful axe attack which was felt desperately | :17:56. | :18:03. | |
across the whole of the community across South Yorkshire. Lisa, in | :18:04. | :18:13. | |
that situation... If she had been single crewing as we now face | :18:14. | :18:20. | |
increasingly, she might now be dead. These are the risks that cuts and | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
numbers are putting, not only on our communities but on the people that | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
serve them in our police force. There are all the issues that people | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
have talked about on the Minister acknowledged the growth in serious | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
organised crime. The growth in cybercrime and there are other | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
pressures too. Caused by the cuts that other arms of the government | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
are making on partner organisations who work alongside the police in | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
trying to build safe and secure communities. Increasingly the police | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
are picking up the consequences of pressures on social services, | :18:59. | :19:01. | |
picking up an increasing role from the crisis in mental health | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
provision. Madam Deputy Speaker, the thin blue line in South Yorkshire, | :19:07. | :19:13. | |
and I know across the country, is becoming the last line of protection | :19:14. | :19:19. | |
in ever wider areas. And it's reaching breaking point. Now I know | :19:20. | :19:30. | |
judging by the only service he didn't mention. This the Ambulance | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
Service I think that is the single greatest source of pressure on front | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
line policing and is putting police officers in very difficult | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
situations belong beyond their training and competence. Does there | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
need to be an urgent review on the performance of the Ambulance Service | :19:48. | :19:50. | |
and the pressure it's placing on police officers on the front line. I | :19:51. | :19:55. | |
think my right honourable friend makes a perfect point and is right | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
in seeking such a review and we seen the pressure is on the Ambulance | :20:01. | :20:07. | |
Service in some fairly frightening cases and one that my honourable | :20:08. | :20:10. | |
friend the member for Sheffield dealing raised on the floor of the | :20:11. | :20:13. | |
House in terms of response times and the combination of the problems and | :20:14. | :20:23. | |
pressures that are created. I want to return to the point about the | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
level of funding which he also tried to pin the minister down on earlier | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
and judging by the Minister's early responses I'm sure he's going to | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
argue that arise in the precept to offset the proposed cut in grants | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
will compensate the South Yorkshire force for the ?2.5 million loss in | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
funding that we face with this settlement. But that is | :20:52. | :20:57. | |
disingenuous. And the Minister knows it. Even putting aside the political | :20:58. | :21:08. | |
double-dealing of forcing local tax increases to fund national tax cuts | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
for those who don't need them. Flat cash funding isn't real protection | :21:14. | :21:19. | |
for police and he knows that's the case. To meet the increase in wages | :21:20. | :21:26. | |
and other pressures within the South Yorkshire, we will still seek cuts | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
of around ?7 million to the local force so local residents are being | :21:32. | :21:34. | |
asked to pay more for a further decline in services. Now, we have | :21:35. | :21:41. | |
seen what short-sighted policies have done to our prison service. | :21:42. | :21:51. | |
With the government itself now scrambling to overcome the problem | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
is that they've created. Surely we can't let this happen to the police | :21:57. | :21:59. | |
service as well. We need the government to recognise the scale of | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
the problem, to recognise this settlement doesn't address it and to | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
persuade the Chancellor to take action before it's too late. It's a | :22:07. | :22:15. | |
pleasure to follow the honourable member for Sheffield Central. As in | :22:16. | :22:22. | |
all areas of public services, the police service is historically | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
underfunded in rural areas for too long. This has often been based on a | :22:27. | :22:33. | |
false perception about the nature of crime and policing in rural areas | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
when compared to cities and other urban areas. The notion that crime | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
in rural areas is little more than the occasional break into a garden | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
shed or something of that nature is a false notion. There is a direct | :22:47. | :22:49. | |
comparison between the types and nature of crime in urban areas on a | :22:50. | :22:57. | |
population pro rata basis, the number of crimes are also distinctly | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
similar. In addition there are many very specific challenges of policing | :23:04. | :23:06. | |
rural areas. They often require great police presence that requires | :23:07. | :23:14. | |
boots on the ground. The constituency of St Austell and | :23:15. | :23:21. | |
Newquay that I represent, it's an area of Cornwall that alongside | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
routine residential police matters sees record numbers of tourists, | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
evermore busy roads and many other issues concerning our rural | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
communities, not least the simple fact that sparsely populated rural | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
areas have additional logistic costs to bear. Cornwall is after all one | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
of the longest counties with the longest coast and that is before you | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
consider the challenges of policing the Isles of Scilly. The cost of | :23:49. | :23:54. | |
policing rural sparsely populated areas where officers must cover | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
large areas and deal with on wide variety of issues, not just crimes, | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
is significant. Rural areas have more than its fair share of remote | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
and winding roads. Statistically there is a disproportionately high | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
number of road traffic accidents. I understand that 61% of road traffic | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
accidents are on our rural roads. That puts additional burden on the | :24:23. | :24:28. | |
police and other emergency services. I'm pleased to see that deprivation | :24:29. | :24:31. | |
is a key factor when considering police funding but yet again there | :24:32. | :24:37. | |
is a myth perpetuated, often by the party opposite, that deprivation | :24:38. | :24:43. | |
only exists in cities. My constituency of St Austell and | :24:44. | :24:46. | |
Newquay contains five neighbourhoods that are in the 10% most deprived in | :24:47. | :24:54. | |
the country. I got to say I'm sure he's obviously not read my maiden | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
speech but I refer to my constituency as a rule constituency | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
with urban problems, so I very much recognise the pointy mates. I'm very | :25:05. | :25:07. | |
grateful to the honourable member for that dimension and pleased to | :25:08. | :25:13. | |
report that he is an exception of the members opposite to continually | :25:14. | :25:15. | |
present the image that deprivation is an exclusively urban issue. | :25:16. | :25:22. | |
Previously when discussing this I was told that the trouble with | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
Cornwall was that we had the wrong type of deprivation when it came to | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
attracting police funding. The wrong type of deprivation, I do not | :25:33. | :25:35. | |
believe that is an excuse even Network Rail could come up with. | :25:36. | :25:41. | |
Deprivation exists in our rural villages and it is often the people | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
who live in the most remote parts of our country who are the most | :25:46. | :25:51. | |
probable. It is time to address the unfairness in funding that has left | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
our police in rural areas... That has affected our police in rural | :25:57. | :26:03. | |
areas. I believe that we have a police minister who understands the | :26:04. | :26:06. | |
issues facing rural areas and is willing to address them. Not only | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
have I phoned him willing to take on board the points that I and many of | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
my colleagues have put to him but I am pleased to report the Police and | :26:18. | :26:20. | |
Crime Commissioner for Devon and Cornwall has asked me to | :26:21. | :26:23. | |
congratulate the minister for the transparent unconstructive process | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
that he has dealt with her and other PCCs. The job of fighting crime and | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
making our communities safe is not just the responsibility of the | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
police, it is a partnership between all stakeholders. In my constituency | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
we have a number of examples where this is happening. In Newquay the | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
new key safe scheme has attracted national recognition, a | :26:50. | :26:52. | |
collaboration between residents, the council, the business community and | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
the police, who have successfully worked together to reduce crime and | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
anti-social behaviour in the town and repair the image of new key as a | :27:01. | :27:06. | |
world-class family holiday resort. Another town has suffered from a | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
growing problem of anti-social behaviour in recent years. | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
Stakeholders have come together to address the problem and recently the | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
town centre have funded extra security to reduce anti-social | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
behaviour in the town centre. While it is good that different parts of | :27:25. | :27:27. | |
the community are working together to address the issues that cannot be | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
a substitute for front line police. We should not expect the business | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
community to be finding others to do the job of the police in keeping our | :27:37. | :27:42. | |
streets safe. I am pleased to report that despite the restraints on | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
budgets and the comments from members opposite our PCC has | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
recently announced Devon and Cornwall will be gaining 100 | :27:52. | :27:53. | |
additional front line police officers. The increase is greatly | :27:54. | :27:59. | |
welcomed and will take the forced's total back-ups over 3000. Another 80 | :28:00. | :28:06. | |
posts are to be created in key support roles, proving once again it | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
is this party on the side of the house that is leading the way in | :28:11. | :28:13. | |
delivering value for money for the taxpayer. While we would all of | :28:14. | :28:21. | |
course like more money for our police I am happy to support the | :28:22. | :28:24. | |
motion of the police grant that is before the house today. However I am | :28:25. | :28:30. | |
also reassured by the minister's acceptance that the formula does | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
need to be reviewed going forward and I trust that we can count on him | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
to ensure that in future the unfairness towards rural areas is | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
addressed and we can see our police in places like Devon and Cornwall | :28:44. | :28:53. | |
receive a better deal in the future. I have listened carefully to what | :28:54. | :28:59. | |
the member has said and particularly the member from Sheffield Central. | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
It rings very true what comes forward. Merseyside Police relies on | :29:05. | :29:10. | |
government funding for 81% of its funding for the police force. That | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
is due to the low council tax base. Percentage cuts therefore government | :29:15. | :29:23. | |
grant heads as hard. Since 2010 Merseyside Police budget has been | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
reduced by 15% and during this period the force has been required | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
to make reductions of spending in policing of ?91 million. The budget | :29:33. | :29:40. | |
of Merseyside Police is ?21 million short to restore the 4000 police | :29:41. | :29:48. | |
officers we need. The police employed 4588 police officers. By | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
March next year that was 2010. By March next year force will be | :29:55. | :30:01. | |
reduced to 3580 police officers, losing more than 1000. If these cuts | :30:02. | :30:08. | |
continue we estimate that by 2020 the force will be operating with | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
more than 26% less officers compared to 2010, reduced the 3400 police | :30:14. | :30:21. | |
officers. As the government continues to cut our police grant | :30:22. | :30:30. | |
ministers are determined, by the maximum allowed 1.95% a year. Our | :30:31. | :30:36. | |
commissioner has not really been given a choice. Even though we are a | :30:37. | :30:45. | |
low council tax -based county. Most of our properties around Bandy and | :30:46. | :30:47. | |
banned bees will be below not well off and therefore ?5 has a | :30:48. | :30:54. | |
significant impact on them. Before Christmas it was confirmed by the | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
government that the grant allocated to Merseyside Police would be | :30:58. | :31:06. | |
further cut for 2017-2018. This equated to 1.4% cut and has left the | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
force with ?0.3 million less grants next year in comparison to this | :31:13. | :31:18. | |
year. By increasing the precept by the maximum allowed it raises less | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
than half the money lost by the grant, it raises 1.2 million. Even | :31:24. | :31:30. | |
with the extra contribution provided by taxpayers we still have to find | :31:31. | :31:37. | |
6.8 million of savings in this next financial year in order to balance | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
the books. The demands on Merseyside Police, 1.2 million calls every | :31:44. | :31:50. | |
year, between 500 and 700 emergency 999 calls every day, on average | :31:51. | :32:03. | |
1.234 thousand incidents each day. Over 200 or their covert operations | :32:04. | :32:06. | |
and events every year including large-scale public orders. One of | :32:07. | :32:12. | |
the most the mandate of all is organised crime which is a major | :32:13. | :32:19. | |
priority in Merseyside. There are 83 organised crime groups operating | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
regionally but identified crossovers or geographic links to Merseyside. | :32:25. | :32:30. | |
The force analysis highlights the significant national spread of | :32:31. | :32:36. | |
activity of organised crime. Merseyside in all 43 forces. This | :32:37. | :32:43. | |
means our police have to cross over into 43 forces. Merseyside has a | :32:44. | :32:49. | |
significantly higher number of organised crime groups with | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
international links. The assessments have indicated Merseyside is one of | :32:55. | :32:57. | |
the three hubs nationally for drugs. The main criminality for 70% of | :32:58. | :33:04. | |
Merseyside organised crimes is drugs. The other being the | :33:05. | :33:10. | |
Metropolitan Police Service and West Midlands Police. This is a further | :33:11. | :33:16. | |
indication of the impact of Merseyside organised crime groups on | :33:17. | :33:23. | |
national crime trends. Recorded crime, drug offences, 5903 | :33:24. | :33:31. | |
nationally, was only met by record by the Met Police. Gun crime, | :33:32. | :33:41. | |
2014-2015 162 firearm offences, the sixth highest in the country | :33:42. | :33:44. | |
reported to Parliament. This indicated there were 277 firearms on | :33:45. | :33:53. | |
Merseyside, that eight of which were active and had been fired within the | :33:54. | :34:01. | |
next 12 months -- 38. Since 2010 Merseyside has written a 12% | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
increase in the number of people killed or seriously injured on the | :34:05. | :34:11. | |
roads. Recent data, every 12 months more than 500 people are killed or | :34:12. | :34:18. | |
suffer serious injuries. Merseyside has some of the most deprived | :34:19. | :34:21. | |
boroughs in the country. The index of multiple deprivation rates | :34:22. | :34:28. | |
Liverpool as second and fifth local authority districts with the largest | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
proportions of highly deprived neighbourhoods in England. With | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
Liverpool being the local authority with the largest number of | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
neighbourhoods in the most deprived 1% of all neighbourhoods. This issue | :34:43. | :34:51. | |
is further exacerbated by ongoing cuts to all other public sector | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
services like love local authorities who have magnificent working | :34:56. | :34:58. | |
relationships with the police and many joined up issues but they work | :34:59. | :35:05. | |
together all sadly being disembarked. Youth offending | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
services who were previously more able to support the police in their | :35:10. | :35:13. | |
community safety work. Merseyside poll, act -- the ability to assist | :35:14. | :35:23. | |
other forces as it has done in the past may be compromised making this | :35:24. | :35:31. | |
as much a national as local issue. Government is currently working on a | :35:32. | :35:35. | |
new funding formula which must dictate how much each police force | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
receives from the current funding pot. We deserve a proper funding | :35:40. | :35:50. | |
settlement from the government. It is sad but I have to say this, the | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
Conservative government has chosen austerity programme cuts to all | :35:55. | :36:01. | |
public services valued by everyone in this country has sadly taken the | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
great out of Great Britain and what we were so admired for in years gone | :36:07. | :36:19. | |
by. The minister knows that I have sought to work as cross-party is | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
possible to try to overcome some of the challenges facing front line | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
policing. My campaign has had support from MPs across the house | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
and the 11 names on my bill presented to the chamber two weeks | :36:33. | :36:34. | |
ago represented five different political parties. But I am | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
struggling to recognise the picture painted by the minister who suggests | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
that this funding formula is the fastest route to a transformed | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
efficient and therefore better policing. The Home Office has always | :36:48. | :36:53. | |
sought to suggest there is no correlation between reduction in | :36:54. | :36:56. | |
funding and increased vulnerability of officers which he knows is an | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
important issue to me and the reduced service they are able to | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
offer. In his statement published with the police grant report he | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
stated, the government will provide the resources necessary for the | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
police to do their critical work and prioritise finishing the job of | :37:14. | :37:16. | |
police reform by enabling the police to transform so they can tackle | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
changing crime, deal with previously had an crimes and protect the | :37:21. | :37:26. | |
vulnerable. It is this notion that cuts to policing facility reform and | :37:27. | :37:29. | |
reform equates to better policing that I am struggling with. Since | :37:30. | :37:35. | |
2010 West Yorkshire Police have lost 1200 front line officers, 800 | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
members of staff. The impact this has had on their ability not just to | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
respond to be increased complexity of crime and social challenges that | :37:47. | :37:48. | |
are the responsibility of the police and to do some of the basics is | :37:49. | :37:55. | |
undeniable. My experience being out with officers in my constituency, I | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
welcome investments in technology and advances in forensics which make | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
the police more effective than ever before, in almost every aspect of | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
policing the numbers of boots on the ground really do matter. I | :38:08. | :38:13. | |
appreciate he will stress that the allocations are protected at flat | :38:14. | :38:15. | |
cash levels compared with the previous financial year however West | :38:16. | :38:22. | |
Yorkshire Police have faced cuts of 140 million since 2010, 20 5% of | :38:23. | :38:30. | |
their budget. Does she is sure the concern that the funding formula | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
review taking place first of all has been shrouded in mystery, the | :38:37. | :38:41. | |
minister has not given any details of the main indicators that are | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
going to be implemented in the outcome of that, and also many | :38:46. | :38:52. | |
police authorities I am sure will be on the receiving end of that funding | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
and he is not able to tell us when that review itself will be finished? | :38:57. | :39:02. | |
Even if police forces are scratching their heads about the future. You | :39:03. | :39:10. | |
are right in that there was confusion about whether this was the | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
formula for next year or the year after because we have not had that | :39:15. | :39:17. | |
level of detail about what is coming up in the future. You are right | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
about the uncertainty that fosters within forces up and down the | :39:23. | :39:25. | |
country trying to respond to challenges. Faced with those cuts | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
efficiencies alone simply cannot offset cuts like that. We know the | :39:31. | :39:37. | |
amounts that PCCs can collect will very greatly with the poorest unable | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
to finance the shortfall in the grant required to meet the grant. | :39:42. | :39:49. | |
West Yorkshire is the fourth-largest force and takes in Leeds, Bradford, | :39:50. | :39:55. | |
Wakefield and others. The Leeds district itself is bigger than some | :39:56. | :40:01. | |
forces. We have diverse communities, lots to offer, but sometimes that | :40:02. | :40:07. | |
challenges as well. We have socio economic characteristics in pockets | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
of deprivation that increased policing demands. We taken some of | :40:13. | :40:21. | |
the urban areas, big urban areas, in the north like Leeds and Bradford | :40:22. | :40:24. | |
uncovered some of the sweeping rural areas in the Pennines. We have heard | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
from members this should be a formula based on population size but | :40:30. | :40:33. | |
I do not believe the police grant recognises the pressures of complex | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
evolving crimes such as cyber crime, human trafficking, preventing child | :40:39. | :40:43. | |
sexual exploitation and missing persons inquiries. | :40:44. | :41:43. | |
The resources allocated have not changed. I was able to see during my | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
time with West Yorkshire Police the difficulties of having to divert | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
cruised into locating missing people which is compromising policing work | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
and eating into officers available for 999 calls. Leading up to the | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
shift I did, they had safely recovered nine vulnerable missing | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
people and were involved in looking for an additional seven the | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
following day. It is picking up the pressures to cuts to services that | :42:13. | :42:15. | |
is having an impact on policing at the same time they are facing | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
financial pressures. The weekly average for called Ollie is 43 | :42:22. | :42:27. | |
missing people. West Yorkshire Police responded to over 20,000 | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
occurrences of missing people last year which is staggering and | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
completely unsustainable. We have had a safeguarding uplift to meet | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
this demand but those officers have come from policing so numbers are | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
down across the vital teams I work so closely with in my role. The | :42:46. | :43:08. | |
conversations I've had. Having spent time with out of hours mental health | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
services, I spent all night sad with two police officers who were unable | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
to leave somebody detained under the Mental Health Act. They had to | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
listen to call after call but could not believe a young nurse on her own | :43:22. | :43:23. | |
mother gentleman who didn't agree she should have been detained and | :43:24. | :43:28. | |
becoming increasingly aggressive. I've been out with history Dane | :43:29. | :43:31. | |
Nielsen my community which is a great initiative were volunteers | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
seek to ensure that people on a night that have a safe time. That | :43:36. | :43:39. | |
alleviates the pressures on the police and the notion of the big | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
society in action was that they have expressed concerns to me that when | :43:44. | :43:46. | |
the encounter fights or potentially violent individuals and demands on | :43:47. | :43:54. | |
the police are such they can't get involved and organisations like them | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
start to lose confidence in the police, should they be able to | :44:00. | :44:02. | |
respond to them if they needed and that starts to undermine some of the | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
great partnership work that we are seeing. The minister is well aware | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
of my concerns as we have heard from my honourable friend the member for | :44:11. | :44:13. | |
Sheffield Central that reduced numbers mean that officers | :44:14. | :44:16. | |
themselves are particularly vulnerable to assaults when they are | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
on their own. I hope the Minister will consider any and all measures | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
to protect officers including those measures outlined in my ten minute | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
Bill. I'm asking the Minister ahead of the publication of the funding | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
formula that we're expecting in the spring that he looks to factor in | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
the different demands placed on forces beyond simply population and | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
geography. From there that recognises there is an imbalance | :44:43. | :44:45. | |
between the amounts that different forces can harvest through the | :44:46. | :44:48. | |
precept and adopt a formula that genuinely meets the demands on | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
policing and allows officers to do the job that they do so well. | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
It's a pleasure to follow the honourable member for Halifax and a | :44:59. | :45:05. | |
very thoughtful and well considered speech. I'd like to use the | :45:06. | :45:11. | |
opportunity to initially raise some general points about the funding of | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
Welsh police forces. On my skull and Northern Ireland, policing is not | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
yet devolved to Wales. Scotland and Northern Ireland policing is done | :45:21. | :45:26. | |
via the Barrett allocations and Welsh policeman are reliant on a | :45:27. | :45:34. | |
funding formula from Westminster. Usual ballot allocations were | :45:35. | :45:37. | |
applied and Welsh police forces would benefit from an extra ?25 | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
million investment per annum on policing services in my country if | :45:42. | :45:46. | |
the money was ring fenced by the Welsh government. The wheels are | :45:47. | :45:48. | |
Naidin formula has not been historically kind to Welsh policing. | :45:49. | :45:55. | |
My police force has faced cuts of ?30 million over the years. This is | :45:56. | :45:59. | |
one of the primary reasons for the controversial loss of our dedicated | :46:00. | :46:03. | |
police helicopter and I will resist the temptation to re-raised those | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
issues today. The aborted funding formula review read by the previous | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
minister last year would have led to a cut of ?32 million for Welsh | :46:13. | :46:18. | |
police forces funding. A further 7.9 million pounds, a staggering 16% of | :46:19. | :46:27. | |
its budget. The aborted formula aims to concentrate on social economic | :46:28. | :46:33. | |
data in terms of criteria for funding allocations. These | :46:34. | :46:36. | |
determinations cannot reflect the true cost of policing rural areas | :46:37. | :46:40. | |
like the ones I represent and it's vital that the Minister before he | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
publishes his new formula takes a broader view. Due to Westminster | :46:46. | :46:48. | |
underfunding, local residents have had to make a greater contribution | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
for police services by the annual precept. It's a typical trick | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
whereby the burden moved from general tight-lipped taxation onto | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
local taxation and the Tory manifesto pledging to not increase | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
income tax, the UK Government has to look at other forms of taxation to | :47:07. | :47:10. | |
make up the numbers. The sort of fiscal strategy is completely | :47:11. | :47:13. | |
regressive and we have had that point made by several honourable | :47:14. | :47:19. | |
members. There is no operational reason why policing is not devolved | :47:20. | :47:21. | |
to Wales and it's disappointing that the last wheels built like the | :47:22. | :47:27. | |
ambition to equalise powers not to mention cities like Manchester were | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
policing powers are being devolved. With all four Welsh police | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
commissioners and a clear financial dividend is clear that its narrow | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
ideology driving policy in Westminster as it relates to Welsh | :47:41. | :47:43. | |
policing. May I now turn my attention to other points raised by | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
police commissioners relating to the cost. | :47:48. | :48:01. | |
The area cost factor the police each users is skewed in favour to the | :48:02. | :48:10. | |
south-east of England are salaries are higher. This might be necessary | :48:11. | :48:19. | |
but is not including... The Department for environment and rural | :48:20. | :48:22. | |
affairs reported in 2014 outlining how the cost of service delivery in | :48:23. | :48:27. | |
rural areas is higher than average. Mentioned in this report of travel | :48:28. | :48:30. | |
costs and travelled downtown, evidence shows travel time for | :48:31. | :48:34. | |
police forces in rural areas is 25 times longer than in metropolitan | :48:35. | :48:37. | |
areas. The issue concerns the size and shape of various forces police | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
and particularly the distance they have to travel to deal with public | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
safety and welfare and transport. The point made by the honourable | :48:46. | :48:51. | |
member for Cornwall. Population in the small compact police forces make | :48:52. | :48:54. | |
less demand on travel time than one in a large irregular police force | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
area with multiple population focus. It serves less than 8000 people in | :49:00. | :49:09. | |
290 hectares. The police serves a resident population over half a | :49:10. | :49:12. | |
million people spread across over 1 million hectares of largely | :49:13. | :49:15. | |
dispersed towns and villages. The UK Government report also has the | :49:16. | :49:22. | |
difficulty of channel shift. As you have also heard from other members | :49:23. | :49:27. | |
of the party, digital infrastructure is a major problem in our country. | :49:28. | :49:33. | |
Too many of our communities, they are without broadband. The police | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
forces have to rely on other ways to communicate with their service | :49:38. | :49:40. | |
industries which are more time intensive. Call handler can deal | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
with one collar at any one time but may deal with several simultaneously | :49:45. | :49:50. | |
using web chat. Another example is holding cells, due to its | :49:51. | :49:53. | |
geographical territory, there are three holding cell units in our area | :49:54. | :50:00. | |
and these must be manned simultaneously in 24 hour basis. | :50:01. | :50:06. | |
That's more expensive than a police force who has one central holding | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
unit. I could go on and on to make several other examples. The area | :50:12. | :50:14. | |
cost adjustment factor for the City of London is 1.52, the area cost | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
adjustment for vivid palace is less than one. I would urge the Minister | :50:20. | :50:26. | |
to review the factors that review area cost to take into account the | :50:27. | :50:29. | |
unique and more difficult circumstances that rural police | :50:30. | :50:32. | |
forces face. If I may now turn my attention to the national and | :50:33. | :50:36. | |
international capital city ground. It is difficult to conceive of a | :50:37. | :50:39. | |
simple police grant formula that could encompass such a range of | :50:40. | :50:43. | |
circumstances for stubbornly the specific needs of the City of London | :50:44. | :50:47. | |
Metropolitan Police forces have long been recognised, primarily through | :50:48. | :50:50. | |
the national and international capital city ground. Cardiff is also | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
a capital city and does not receive this grant. What consideration has | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
the Minister given to awarding Wales with a proportion of the national | :50:59. | :51:01. | |
and international capital city grant to adequately address the unique | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
challenges the police forces face in the capital city of my country. I | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
would like to conclude by saying that when it comes to the funding of | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
release services my country, the devolution of policing to Wales as a | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
political and financial no-brainer. I would finish by saying that this | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
is probably the only time you'll ever hear me and this house saying | :51:27. | :51:29. | |
something positive about Barnet formula. | :51:30. | :51:39. | |
Lancashire's been one of the top performing police forces in the | :51:40. | :51:45. | |
country for many years and in some ways it's been a victim of its own | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
success. I say that because despite the improvements in performance and | :51:51. | :51:53. | |
efficiency, it still be on the receiving end of cuts from this | :51:54. | :51:56. | |
government for quite a number of years. Given its success I would | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
like to pay a particular tribute to the county council, our police and | :52:03. | :52:09. | |
crime commission but especially to chief Percival Cisse in his retiring | :52:10. | :52:13. | |
nature after many years service to the people Lancashire. -- Chief | :52:14. | :52:20. | |
Constable. The pressures police are facing and their partner services | :52:21. | :52:23. | |
are cut as well as the challenges that we face through future | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
uncertainty of the police. The financial uncertainty caused by the | :52:29. | :52:35. | |
return of the police formula funding review means forces like Lancashire | :52:36. | :52:41. | |
are particularly affected. Last time around mistakes were made in the | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
process that suggested Lancashire would lose around ?25 million a year | :52:46. | :52:51. | |
on top of the ?76 million worth of savings that have been made since | :52:52. | :52:55. | |
2010. However, even when the figures were revised over ?8 million a year | :52:56. | :53:01. | |
would be taken out of Lancashire's annual policing budget on this man | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
that Lancashire face savings over four ?100 million a year by 2020 | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
compared with 2010 that is the equivalent of more than a third of | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
Lancashire's budget. Reform of the police funding formula is overdue, | :53:17. | :53:23. | |
as has been stated by the home affairs select committee and indeed | :53:24. | :53:26. | |
mentioned here today and it's vital that the new formula actually | :53:27. | :53:30. | |
represents the demands on police forces. All forces me to be | :53:31. | :53:34. | |
adequately resourced but this must happen without disadvantaging other | :53:35. | :53:39. | |
areas where already making tough choices to deliver necessary | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
savings. My constituents repeatedly tell me that they do not want to see | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
resources taken out of policing and they have supported increases to the | :53:49. | :53:53. | |
policing precept to see this happen. But further cuts will impact on | :53:54. | :53:57. | |
officer numbers is around 80% of the constabulary total budget is | :53:58. | :54:03. | |
staffing and other costs. When the Chancellor announced in 2016 that | :54:04. | :54:11. | |
police budgets would continue to be protected in cash terms, assuming | :54:12. | :54:15. | |
council tax was maximised, I, along with many others, welcomed the news. | :54:16. | :54:21. | |
Last year's cuts in grant funding where a uniform 0.6% and this year's | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
provisional settlement outlined a further 1.3% cut to direct resource | :54:26. | :54:33. | |
funding. While these cuts are considerably better than originally | :54:34. | :54:37. | |
expected in 2015, they do still mean that Lancashire has to absorb normal | :54:38. | :54:43. | |
inflation and other government imposed cost pressures such as the | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
national insurance changes, national living wages and introduction of the | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
apprentice levy. As a result, in Lancashire, it still has to deliver | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
?4 million worth of savings in 2017-18 with a further ?40 million | :54:58. | :55:06. | |
to be found by 2019-2020. I'm also disappointed to see a further | :55:07. | :55:13. | |
reduction in police capital grant for 2017-18. The cost of regular IT | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
replacement cycles are a significant cost for the force but this | :55:19. | :55:22. | |
investment is vital to ensure improved productivity and efficiency | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
in future years. The reduction in grant means that the burden on | :55:27. | :55:29. | |
scarce revenue resources is increased as borrowing increases to | :55:30. | :55:36. | |
meet these costs and it's an unattractive option given the | :55:37. | :55:39. | |
relatively short life cycle of IT assets. I'll talk a little bit about | :55:40. | :55:45. | |
top slicing because the Minister didn't mention that in his speech to | :55:46. | :55:52. | |
the House. The value of top slicing has increased significantly in 2017 | :55:53. | :55:58. | |
- 2018 by over ?100 million. This increases more than the assumed | :55:59. | :56:03. | |
year-on-year increase in precept income from the 2016-2017 level | :56:04. | :56:08. | |
nationally. It could therefore be argued that this means that local | :56:09. | :56:10. | |
taxpayers are in effect funding the There is no detail of the plans for | :56:11. | :56:25. | |
the transformations fund set up for 2017-18. The Treasury of my health | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
or it is unable to gauge how much of this funding might be coming back | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
into the service. In recent years there has been a shift by government | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
towards creating ports of funding for the police service to bid for | :56:39. | :56:43. | |
and that bidding process can be laborious and possibly fruitless at | :56:44. | :56:46. | |
the time and resources are thinly stretched. We would also like an | :56:47. | :56:52. | |
assurance that the proposed increase of this transformation fund of ?525 | :56:53. | :57:00. | |
million in 2018-19 to give total fund of ?700 million will not be met | :57:01. | :57:05. | |
by further top slices to the police grants distributed to PCCs as a | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
further reduction of this magnitude in direct funding for policing would | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
have detrimental effect on the ability of forces to deliver their | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
services to the public. The top slice taken to fund the emergency | :57:20. | :57:23. | |
services network programme has increased significantly at the time | :57:24. | :57:26. | |
in the implementation of the new network is consistently being pushed | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
further back. I am concerned that the report of the Public Accounts | :57:32. | :57:37. | |
Committee into the new programme that the December 2019 cut-off point | :57:38. | :57:41. | |
may not be met. This may mean that the existing error with contract | :57:42. | :57:46. | |
being extended at the potential cost of almost ?500 million. This is at | :57:47. | :57:52. | |
the time and resources for policing are stretched to an unprecedented | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
level. It does not seem prudent to remove funding from forces to pay | :57:57. | :58:00. | |
for a programme that is not really moving forward. I would be grateful | :58:01. | :58:06. | |
from the minister for any information or the assurances the | :58:07. | :58:10. | |
department can provide about the ability to meet the timescales in | :58:11. | :58:13. | |
question or protection of individual force budgets for many of our costs | :58:14. | :58:20. | |
arising from the emergency services network or the extension of airwave | :58:21. | :58:25. | |
contracts. I would also appreciate more certainty in general about the | :58:26. | :58:29. | |
future level of top slicing that will take place as this has | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
increased each year but at inconsistent levels. This makes the | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
forecasting of future levels of resources extremely difficult and | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
the government is making financial planning and prudent management of | :58:43. | :58:45. | |
public funding considerably more difficult than it needs to be. I | :58:46. | :58:50. | |
would appreciate certainty in general about the future level of | :58:51. | :58:55. | |
top slicing that will take place as this has increased each year at | :58:56. | :59:00. | |
inconsistent levels and it makes resources extremely difficult to | :59:01. | :59:06. | |
allocate in particular with financial planning and the | :59:07. | :59:08. | |
difficulty that comes with that. There has been a great deal of media | :59:09. | :59:13. | |
attention recently on mental health services. It is widely understood in | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
the sector that mental health is a key driver of the man for policing. | :59:18. | :59:23. | |
When I met with my Chief Constable couple of weeks ago I was told that | :59:24. | :59:28. | |
80% of incoming calls to the police, not even crime related, many of the | :59:29. | :59:32. | |
calls relates to problems related to mental health. While the police have | :59:33. | :59:39. | |
received relative protection from this particular round of the | :59:40. | :59:43. | |
government's austerity the same cannot be said for many of our | :59:44. | :59:48. | |
bluelight partners. Local government has been affected severely. Despite | :59:49. | :59:54. | |
additional resources the pressures on health are well documented and | :59:55. | :59:57. | |
have been made clear by other members speaking in this debate | :59:58. | :00:02. | |
today. As a result the services facing increased pressure from cuts | :00:03. | :00:09. | |
to other services funded and I would ask the Home Office and ministers | :00:10. | :00:12. | |
present and other government departments to ensure that | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
investment in other sectors such as the health service, the courts, | :00:16. | :00:19. | |
prisons and other relevant departments are maintained in order | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
to generate benefits for the police service themselves are caused by | :00:24. | :00:29. | |
cutting these other services it is having an indirect effect on the | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
operation of the police service. I ask that the minister speaks to the | :00:35. | :00:39. | |
Chancellor and makes representations on the budget because I hope that | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
the government and that the Chancellor in particular will take | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
account of these issues that had been raised in order to improve the | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
police service to the people of Lancashire and elsewhere up and down | :00:52. | :01:00. | |
this country. The minister has come to the house today to tell us that | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
the government and he are protecting police budgets. That is not true. | :01:05. | :01:14. | |
Not true. The minister learned many of his people skills at the knee of | :01:15. | :01:21. | |
the member for Brentwood who works on the basis that what you do is you | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
just keep saying the same thing over and over and people will believe | :01:26. | :01:31. | |
you. Today we have seen across the chamber people exploding the myth | :01:32. | :01:37. | |
which he tried to be true today. The member for Sheffield Central made it | :01:38. | :01:44. | |
clear flat cash is not protection of our budgets. The member for Dorset | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
south made clear the cuts which has for so going to have to make even | :01:49. | :01:54. | |
with this settlement today. It is no good the minister coming here and | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
repeating that the government are protecting police budgets because | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
the people who really know this is not true are the brave men and women | :02:04. | :02:11. | |
of our police forces up and down the country who are doing a job to | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
protect our safety. We take them for granted on many occasions and we do | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
not back them enough. I agree with the member for Halifax who outlined | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
the dangers which they face on a daily basis. Can we stop this that | :02:26. | :02:33. | |
somehow the budgets are being protected? We have to take into | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
account the effects of the last six years of cuts on police forces up | :02:39. | :02:46. | |
and down the country. In Durham, which covers my constituency, they | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
have lost the hundred and 75 officers, extreme PCS alls and 82 | :02:53. | :03:00. | |
police support staff. The National Audit Office recognise it as one of | :03:01. | :03:02. | |
the forces most affected by the government cuts in police funding. | :03:03. | :03:12. | |
In 2010 central government grant was ?100 million, this unit will be ?84 | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
million. The central government grant accounts for 75% of funding | :03:19. | :03:25. | |
for Durham Constabulary's funding, the other 25% is made up from the | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
precept. Even with what is being put forward today the budget for Durham | :03:31. | :03:38. | |
will be cut by another ?700,000 in 17-18. The realities on the ground | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
are going to be that police budgets are going to be cut. No matter what | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
the minister tries to spin the figures and tell us that the | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
government are committed to protecting police funding they are | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
clearly not. You have to add onto that the compound effect in terms of | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
what has happened over the last year. Durham has lost 25% of front | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
line police officers over the last six years. It is the force apart | :04:07. | :04:13. | |
from Cleveland, it has lost more in that period, the only one. That is | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
the direct result of the decisions taken by this government in terms of | :04:19. | :04:25. | |
cutting the police grant. Much has been said about the new funding | :04:26. | :04:34. | |
formula that we can make up the shortfall is that I been put forward | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
by the cuts in central grant by precepts. That is where areas such | :04:39. | :04:45. | |
as Durham are at a huge disadvantage because if you look at Durham's | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
council tax base 55% of the properties are in band | :04:50. | :05:04. | |
A. Comparing it to areas like Surrey and others which are up to band H | :05:05. | :05:15. | |
properties, a 1% increase would generate large sums of money. In | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
times of that funding formula or trying to block the cuts that have | :05:21. | :05:27. | |
been forced upon Durham and others by this government the ability of | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
Durham to do this is limited and that is the case for many areas. | :05:33. | :05:43. | |
Whatever the government are going to spin after this debate Durham | :05:44. | :05:51. | |
Constabulary will have to find another ?700,000 cut to its police | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
budget in addition to the 16 million it has lost over the last six years. | :05:56. | :06:03. | |
The idea that somehow you can keep cutting without affecting front line | :06:04. | :06:10. | |
services, as members have said, is unrealistic. Durham has done a | :06:11. | :06:17. | |
tremendous job in spite of what the cuts have been inflicted on them by | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
this government. It is the most efficient force the UK. It is | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
outstanding as a force and that is down... I am sorry that the minister | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
would not grudgingly admit that the labour PC sea had to do with this, | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
but it is good teamwork between him and the Chief Constable who works | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
very closely together in terms of not just driving efficiencies but | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
making sure that front line policing is protected despite the cuts. I | :06:49. | :06:55. | |
would like to thank the men and women of Durham Constabulary because | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
it is them on the front line doing the job every day. It is the support | :06:59. | :07:06. | |
staff also we should pay tribute to. Front line police officers are very | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
important in terms of being a visible face of the police but | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
without the admin staff behind them they cannot carry out that. They | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
have done a tremendous job. We have the funding formula in terms of | :07:20. | :07:29. | |
being promised for 2018-19. If we do not take on the issue around | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
recognition that there are places such as Durham which has a large | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
number of band A properties that if we do not tackle the issue around | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
the precept the ability in Durham to raise any substantial amount will be | :07:46. | :07:54. | |
little effect. The member for Mookie raise the issue about rural | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
policing. Durham is a rural county. We have those issues in some of our | :08:00. | :08:06. | |
former post-industrial communities which are on par with some of the | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
issues that urban communities face. In terms of ensuring that the | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
distribution of central government funding is targeted it has to take | :08:18. | :08:24. | |
into account poverty and need of those local communities. The member | :08:25. | :08:30. | |
for Preston raised a point which this government does not think | :08:31. | :08:36. | |
about, it is not about joined up government because we have a | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
situation where if you take money out of one part of the system it | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
will directly impact on another part. Policing is a great example. | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
The member for Preston raise the issue about mental health services. | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
If you cut those those people have to go somewhere and end up in A | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
and the police get called to deal with those. Is that good for those | :09:00. | :09:05. | |
individuals and a good use of police time? No. I would go further and | :09:06. | :09:12. | |
look at the neighbourhood policing, which a model in Durham has been | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
used which has worked well have joined up services between local | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
councils and the police but with cuts coming in that affects the | :09:20. | :09:25. | |
ability... In a minute... Affects the ability of those councils to do | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
the joint partnership working with the local police and local | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
authorities. I would like to join him in commending the work that the | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
police force do with particularly with those suffering from mental | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
health problems. Would he agree the funding formula needs to not only | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
include that but wider issues of vulnerability particularly the | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
elderly population which is higher in rural areas like Devon? She makes | :09:53. | :10:00. | |
a very good point. It goes back to the point about vulnerability. If | :10:01. | :10:08. | |
you get a child who goes missing it is the police get involved. With an | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
elderly population and a rise in dementia and other illnesses, they | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
are going to put pressures on local services and police because of | :10:21. | :10:23. | |
someone goes missing from a care home or their home the first people | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
to call are the police and we have to have services that are joined up | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
locally. I do not think you can look at policing in isolation. | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
I supported it because I think the joint work we've seen in Durham | :10:41. | :10:48. | |
between health services and police and local authorities is the way | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
forward. You can't keep taking money out of one system and don't think it | :10:53. | :10:55. | |
will affect on another. The honourable lady does make very good | :10:56. | :11:01. | |
point. And grateful to my honourable friend for giving way on that point | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
in relation to the point made by the member opposite. I mention that when | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
I was out with the out-of-hours services and police officers were | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
there with somebody detained in the Mental Health Act but another person | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
was detained because there is pressure to keep people detained in | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
Mental Health Act to police cells, there was no other place with safety | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
and accredited in a police car until the place safety became available. | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
Tying all this together and getting the systems in place and supporting | :11:32. | :11:34. | |
people with mental health difficulties, the police will keep | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
picking up those vulnerabilities. My honourable friend makes a very good | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
point and I served on the police Bill and had a welcome step of | :11:44. | :11:46. | |
trying to ensure we do not keep people with mental health issues in | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
police cells. She also makes a very good point, it's reliant then on | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
places of safety to go to and in some areas it may be a hospital bed. | :11:56. | :12:02. | |
Miles of we need at a local level to develop places of safety where | :12:03. | :12:09. | |
people can be taken to and not left, as she just described, and a police | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
car anywhere else. That is about funding and like I said, you cannot | :12:14. | :12:20. | |
look at policing just an isolation. If we have some joined strategy here | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
it can save money because I think there is an issue about money being | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
saved but it's also got to make sure that better provision of services. | :12:31. | :12:37. | |
In conclusion, I'd like to say this, in the case of Durham we have an | :12:38. | :12:43. | |
outstanding force, a force which despite the horrendous cuts that | :12:44. | :12:46. | |
have been inflicted upon them are doing a first-class job. They can't | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
take any more. I would just urge the Minister if he's listening to this, | :12:51. | :12:59. | |
when he does come to his new funding formula, forces like Durham that | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
have gone through a lot of pain and change are recognised in terms of | :13:05. | :13:06. | |
the efficiency and steps they've taken forward and also not only the | :13:07. | :13:13. | |
reality of situations but also in terms of the formula that those | :13:14. | :13:19. | |
areas with large numbers of band aid properties who have not got an | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
ability to raise the precept, that should be taken into consideration, | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
otherwise what will happen unfortunately, it will have... The | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
cuts have already taken place and more pain will be added onto them. | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
To finish, I will say this. Do not believe what the Minister is saying | :13:37. | :13:44. | |
today. This settlement today is a cut in police services to our nation | :13:45. | :13:46. | |
and people should recognise that. The total police grant for 2017-18 | :13:47. | :13:58. | |
for England and Wales is being cut by ?96.7 million, a cut of nearly ?1 | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
billion. This comes after swingeing cuts of 4% in 2015-16. Merseyside | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
Police which serves my constituency relies on the government for 81% of | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
its funding and has been one of the worst hit by the government cuts. | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
Our budget has been reduced by 15% since 2010 and during this time the | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
force has been required to make savings of ?91 million to balance | :14:24. | :14:29. | |
the books. That's a huge figure. Merseyside Police is now facing a | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
?21 million shortfall for the money that it needs to restore 4000 police | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
officers. I know from talking to officers just how hard police | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
officers work and I know that they need a fair deal and so did the | :14:43. | :14:45. | |
communities that they serve. Let's just consider for a moment some of | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
the work they do to keep our community said. Merseyside Police | :14:50. | :14:52. | |
takes more than 1.2 million calls every year. It receives between five | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
and 700 emergency 909 calls every day and on average it records 1234 | :14:59. | :15:06. | |
incidents each day. Merseyside as unique policing demands. There are | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
83 organised crime groups operating in the region, including a | :15:11. | :15:13. | |
significant number with international links. Merseyside is | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
one of the three hubs nationally for illegal drugs and just under 6000 | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
drug offences were reported in June 20 16. Gun crime sort 162 firearms | :15:23. | :15:31. | |
offences in 2014-15. As my friend, the member for St Helens are clearly | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
set out, Mehdi said as one of the most deprived boroughs in the | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
country and bringing with it particular policing challenges and | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
of course there are also the issues around a value of the precept that | :15:43. | :15:45. | |
can be raised locally, and issue dealt clearly by my honourable | :15:46. | :15:48. | |
friend the member for Swansea East and North Durham. It is vital that | :15:49. | :15:55. | |
the Home Secretary and her minister acknowledged that Merseyside has | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
unique policing demands and it is vital they recognise that by cutting | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
the police budget over the last seven years they are leaving our | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
communities vulnerable. In so doing they are putting pressure on police | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
officers as well. Men and women who on already sometimes dangerous job | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
in service of the local communities. The budget for Merseyside Police is | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
?21 million short of the money it needs and it's vital that the | :16:18. | :16:20. | |
Minister takes note and looks at what he can do to give us that | :16:21. | :16:24. | |
money. On Merseyside, the Police Commissioner in Chief Constable have | :16:25. | :16:27. | |
been forced to consider the possibility of closing police | :16:28. | :16:29. | |
stations and while no decision on a particular station has been made | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
yet, I do know that the impact of last year's cuts and the cuts for | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
2017-18 are already causing anxiety amongst the residents in Wirral | :16:39. | :16:41. | |
West. I know this because they tell me, as do the people that run | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
businesses in the area. Madam Deputy Speaker, is a prime responsibility | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
of government to keep our people safe. | :16:51. | :17:35. | |
The Conservative Party used to claim to be the party of law and order, | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
sadly I believe that can no longer be the case. We all remember the | :17:40. | :17:42. | |
terrifying scenes of the London police riots in 2011 under the Tory | :17:43. | :17:44. | |
led coalition government, yet it seems that the Tories have not | :17:45. | :17:46. | |
learnt from this banging episode. There was serious disorder in 22 of | :17:47. | :17:49. | |
32 boroughs overseen by the Metropolitan Police and on the | :17:50. | :17:51. | |
fourth day of rioting 16,000 officers were deployed, yet under | :17:52. | :17:53. | |
the tourist police numbers have fallen by 20000 and now they're | :17:54. | :17:55. | |
making further cuts. The government has a duty to fund policing | :17:56. | :17:57. | |
adequately. Our community is deserve as much. That absolutely | :17:58. | :17:59. | |
unacceptable to me that there are some parts of my constituency Wirral | :18:00. | :18:02. | |
West, very nice place to be, where some are too frightened to go to the | :18:03. | :18:04. | |
local shops in it's unacceptable that an already dangerous job is | :18:05. | :18:07. | |
being made more perilous by of duty and I call upon the government to | :18:08. | :18:09. | |
give our police the funding the government must think again. By | :18:10. | :18:11. | |
believe anything less is a dereliction of duty and I call upon | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
the government to give our police the funding they need. Thank you | :18:15. | :18:16. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker. With a leave of the House I would thank you Madam | :18:17. | :18:19. | |
Deputy Speaker. With the leave of the House I would just like to say | :18:20. | :18:22. | |
briefly that this debate and I'm grateful to all members across the | :18:23. | :18:24. | |
House who an excellent debate and I'm grateful to all members across | :18:25. | :18:27. | |
the House who have contributed over the last hour or fair funding | :18:28. | :18:29. | |
settlement for the we have actually secured a fair funding settlement | :18:30. | :18:32. | |
for the I note the comments made by a number we're going forward with | :18:33. | :18:35. | |
and then pleased to hear she will be supporting us in getting that done. | :18:36. | :18:37. | |
I'm just curious as to why they never did it when they were in | :18:38. | :18:40. | |
government around the police funding formula review work that we're going | :18:41. | :18:42. | |
forward with and then pleased to hear she will be supporting us in | :18:43. | :18:45. | |
getting that done. I'm just curious as to why they never did when they | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
were in government also she spoke and members of the set have talked | :18:52. | :18:54. | |
as if there was no point any kind of budget deficit. They sometimes | :18:55. | :18:56. | |
forget the mess that they real tyrants. The government has met the | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
real spending review .promised that we outlined in the 2015 spending | :19:01. | :19:02. | |
review. When you consider the government grant, precept and | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
reallocation such as the police transformation fund, the 2015 let's | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
be very clear about the numbers here because honourable members opposite | :19:10. | :19:15. | |
really haven't seen it. The total spending in 27-18 of 11700 and 83 | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
million. With preset maximised this has a settlement and proposes a | :19:22. | :19:29. | |
higher total of some 11800 and ?4 million. Police forces across this | :19:30. | :19:32. | |
country, not a single police force in this country looked at 2015-16 to | :19:33. | :19:40. | |
2017-18 with the use of its precept sees any reduction whatsoever. The | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
Right Honourable gentleman who was speaking from a sedentary position | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
quite a lot but chose not to speak, talked about greater Manchester I | :19:50. | :19:52. | |
forgot to point out that they're actually seeing an increase from 541 | :19:53. | :19:59. | |
to over ?543 million. Indeed, the police and crime commissioners | :20:00. | :20:02. | |
across the country and the last few years have seen the reserves | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
increase by over ?400 million. Putting aside what those increases | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
in the reserves may be used for, it means they've had surpluses and | :20:14. | :20:16. | |
funds in the last few years to build up those reserves in the first | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
place. I look forward to seeing police forces use them wisely in the | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
efficiency work on the ahead. There are still considerable scope for | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
forces to continue to improve the efficiency of the organisations and | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
transform the way in which they operate. It's vital that pace and | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
urgency of change continues and goes faster. If we are to make sure we | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
have a police force that is fit to meet the challenges of the 21st | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
century. I want to bang honourable friends from South Dorset and Saint | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
Austell in Newquay for the contributions outlining the | :20:51. | :20:53. | |
importance of transparency. I would say to the honourable member for | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
Preston, there will be a full public consultation. The work that is going | :20:59. | :21:01. | |
on at the moment is being contributed to by police crime | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
commissioners including his own and she does doubles all of whom I am | :21:06. | :21:08. | |
willing to meet and want to be meeting. Maybe he has not been | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
talking to policing crime commissioners the way that we have. | :21:12. | :21:21. | |
The honourable gentlemen are surely understandable is of us who'd been | :21:22. | :21:24. | |
in the chamber these last two hours now that he didn't take part in the | :21:25. | :21:27. | |
debate and hasn't been in the chamber, so I hope he will not seek | :21:28. | :21:34. | |
to intervene again. It is important the work goes ahead and we will do | :21:35. | :21:37. | |
that in a proper way, as the service has asked us to to do it properly | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
and not take the rushed approach the members opposite would support. I | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
commend this police grant to the House, it provides stable funding | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
for forces, extra funding for transformation and it should leave | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
this has absolutely clear that the police in England and Wales will | :21:55. | :21:57. | |
have the resources they need to continue protecting the public and I | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
commend this motion to the House. The question is on the order paper. | :22:03. | :22:09. | |
As many of that opinion say aye. On the contrary no. Division. Clear the | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
lobby. Order. Before I put the question I | :22:14. | :24:28. | |
must remind the House at the motions are subject to double majority | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
voting. Worst of the whole house and then of those representing | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
constituencies in England and Wales. The question is as on the order | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
paper. As many of that opinion say aye. Aye. Of the contrary no. | :24:43. | :24:50. | |
Tellers for the ayes. Tellers for the Noes. | :24:51. | :35:52. | |
The ayes to the right 275. The noes to the left 179. Of those honourable | :35:53. | :36:09. | |
members representing constituents England and Wales, the ayes to the | :36:10. | :36:18. | |
right 269, the noes to the left 173. A moral victory. | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
THE SPEAKER: The ayes to the right 275, the noes to the left 179 of | :36:25. | :36:34. | |
those honourable members representing constituency in England | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
and Wales, the ayes to the right 269, the noes to the left, 173. So | :36:40. | :36:46. | |
the ayes have it. The ayes have it. It. Is unlock. -- unlock. We come | :36:47. | :37:03. | |
now to the three motions on local government finance which will be | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
debated together. I must inform the House that the Speaker has certified | :37:08. | :37:21. | |
the third... As relating exclusively to England and within devolved | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
legislative competence. All three instruments will therefore be | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
subject to double majority voting, the whole House and those | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
representing constituencies in England. I call the Secretary of | :37:37. | :37:42. | |
State Mr Sajid Javid to move the first of the three motions. Thank | :37:43. | :37:48. | |
you. I beg to move that the report on local government finance England | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
2017-18 laid before this House on the 20th February be approved. | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
Madame Deputy Speaker, local government is the front-line of our | :37:59. | :38:06. | |
democracy. Every day England's almost 400 districts, counties | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
boroughs Metropolitan areas provide countless services to millions of | :38:11. | :38:13. | |
people. Clean our streets, repair our roads care for you our most | :38:14. | :38:20. | |
vulnerable people, maintain our struck, put roofs on our head and so | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
much more. It's our job to make sure they are adequately funded to do | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
that. A financial settle am was published last year. We have | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
received formal representations from nearly 200 organisations and | :38:34. | :38:36. | |
individuals. Let me take this opportunity to thank everyone who | :38:37. | :38:41. | |
has taken part in that process. The results of the consultation are | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
before you all today in the shape of the financial settle am. It's a | :38:46. | :38:49. | |
settlement that provides councils with the resources required to | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
deliver world-class public services in a year ahead while continuing to | :38:54. | :38:57. | |
play their part in bearing down on the deficit. No, I will in a moment. | :38:58. | :39:03. | |
Nobody knows local government better than local government itself so this | :39:04. | :39:12. | |
is a settle am that representatives of every tier of local government | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
and every political party. I will give way to the honurable lady. I | :39:17. | :39:22. | |
agree with him in drawing attention to the importance of local | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
government, could he then explain why Liverpool with its high levels | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
of deprivation and low-tax base has now lost over 60% of its central | :39:32. | :39:39. | |
government funding? The honurable lady will know all councils have | :39:40. | :39:45. | |
been asked to help make a distribution to dealing with the | :39:46. | :39:48. | |
large deficit that this country had in 2010. That doesn't mean it hasn't | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
been challenging. It has been challenging for Liverpool and | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
others, but there are ways to deal with that many other councils have | :39:58. | :40:00. | |
demonstrated where they have handled those challenges well. I also think | :40:01. | :40:03. | |
it might be reashiring to the honurable lady to be reminded that | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
Liverpool, the Liverpool city region is also part of the business | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
retention pilot which I shall come on to in a moment which may help | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
deal with some of those challenges. Will he give way. I | :40:17. | :40:27. | |
Does he agree with me with authorities in my area it had been | :40:28. | :40:37. | |
extreme and more needs to be done to create fairness? I do very much | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
agree with my right honourable friend on just that point and in a | :40:42. | :40:44. | |
moment I will come onto the fair funding review which attempt to do | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
just that. I will move on and take some further interventions in a | :40:51. | :40:55. | |
moment. The measures can be broadly grouped into three areas which I | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
would like to go through during this debate. I would also like to update | :41:00. | :41:05. | |
the House later on and on another important source of government | :41:06. | :41:08. | |
funding for local authorities and that is business rates. Madam Deputy | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
is bigger, the first request that we've had from local authorities is | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
increased certainty over funding. For years, councils have called for | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
the tools to improve services and deliver efficiencies over a longer | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
horizon. That's why the 2015 spending review delivered a ?200 | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
billion flat cash settlement for local government. That's why we've | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
delivered for your funding allocations which provide a | :41:37. | :41:38. | |
financial certainty required for councils to be bold and ambitious. | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
They have used that funding certainty to publish long-term | :41:44. | :41:47. | |
efficiency plans. Joiner taxpayers that they can deliver great services | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
and still live within their means. But the story does not end there. | :41:53. | :41:58. | |
Last month we introduced the local government Finance Bill to this | :41:59. | :42:01. | |
house. It will devolve 100% of business rates to local government | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
and will also enshrine in law our commitment to providing funding | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
certainty, establishing a legal framework for multi-year | :42:11. | :42:13. | |
settlements. The revenue support grant will be abolished so councils | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
will become financially self-sufficient and with the | :42:19. | :42:20. | |
services financed locally, councils will be even more accountable to the | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
electorate rather than ministers in Whitehall. The Secretary of State | :42:26. | :42:32. | |
says councils are living within their means but Trafford Council, | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
where I'm a member of Parliament as having to draw on its reserves to | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
meet the spending gap that it faces as a result of the reduction in the | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
revenue support grant, which is not fully compensated even in a rich | :42:45. | :42:47. | |
authority like Trafford by being able to retain more business rates. | :42:48. | :42:55. | |
My honourable friend, the Minister for local growth met with Trafford | :42:56. | :43:02. | |
Council just recently and I do meet with many of the councils and listen | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
to some of the challenges they have but Trafford Council is one of those | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
that is implementing some efficiencies but there are always | :43:12. | :43:14. | |
more things that can be done and later on in the statement I will | :43:15. | :43:17. | |
highlight some of those types of measures. Hull City Council wrote to | :43:18. | :43:24. | |
the Secretary of State a short while ago and the Secretary of State in | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
his response offered to meet with the chief executive and the leader | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
of the Council in Hull. We waited many many weeks to get that meeting | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
setup and then we received from the secretary a letter saying the | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
Secretary of State wasn't able to meet. I wonder what he's just said | :43:43. | :43:45. | |
about meeting with local authorities whether he'd never agree to meet | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
with Hull City Council. -- he'd now agreed to meet. I can assure the | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
honourable lady that ministers from my department have had a number of | :43:57. | :43:59. | |
meetings with Hull council and I'm happy to meet with Hull council. I | :44:00. | :44:05. | |
did receive a letter if I remember collecting in November and replied | :44:06. | :44:08. | |
within weeks and more than happy to meet and just today I can tell the | :44:09. | :44:12. | |
honourable lady I have contacted Hull council and offered the | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
meeting. Madam Deputy is bigger, under the new system, there will no | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
longer be an annual Finance settlement that's reviewed and | :44:22. | :44:24. | |
imposed by Westminster each year. Instead the government will set the | :44:25. | :44:28. | |
envelope on the principles for allocating funding over a period and | :44:29. | :44:31. | |
it will be for councils to grow their income. This can be done in a | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
variety of ways from attaching new businesses, to building new homes, | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
to working with local partners to deliver more joined up local | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
services. 100% business rates retention is being piloted from next | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
year in greater Manchester, and the Liverpool city region, the West | :44:51. | :44:53. | |
Midlands, Cornwall, the West of England and by the Greater London | :44:54. | :45:02. | |
authority. I'd like to bring to the attention the fact that Lancashire | :45:03. | :45:11. | |
is the third lowest tax base of any of the Shire local authorities and | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
whilst we welcome the reductions in business rates that we've seen for | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
example in my constituency in Preston, or this effectively means | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
is that the 100% tax take, as a result of the reduction of the | :45:25. | :45:27. | |
business rate, we don't mind that but the loss of central government | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
funding through the rate support grant, would be a huge vote | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
Lancashire Preston. I can tell the honourable gentleman first letter | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
has been reset for Lancashire, so they shouldn't lose everything but | :45:42. | :45:43. | |
the fares any further information he wants to provide me with that we | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
might not be aware of, I'd be happy to take a look at that. Madam Deputy | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
Speaker, these authorities that I just mentioned with the business | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
rates pilots will be able to keep more of the growth in their business | :45:56. | :45:59. | |
rates income with no impact on the rest of local government. We plan to | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
undertake further pilots in 2018-19 in areas without a devilish and deal | :46:05. | :46:13. | |
including two tier council areas. I very much welcome the roll-out of | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
these pilots across the country and entirely the right approach to take. | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
His immediate predecessor K2 Bromley and met the leader of our council | :46:23. | :46:25. | |
and chief executive when the expressed interest in Bromley | :46:26. | :46:28. | |
becoming a pilot. Will he take it from me that that offer and interest | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
still stands and perhaps he could come to Bromley to discuss it with | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
us. First of all, I know my honourable friend speaks with a | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
great deal of experience on matters of local government and I would be | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
more than happy to meet the member for Bromley. We plan to undertake | :46:47. | :46:53. | |
further pilots for the two tier authorities and the like to welcome | :46:54. | :46:56. | |
applications from any council 's witty to take part in this second | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
trial. The nationwide roll-out of 100% business rate retention will | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
take place across England in 2019-20. Ever this month, my | :47:07. | :47:10. | |
department published a consultation seeking views on exactly how the | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
system will look. The second key area... Secretary of State, unless | :47:16. | :47:22. | |
I've missed it, could he explain were sorry is in these pilots | :47:23. | :47:25. | |
because that was the explanation as to why it wasn't a sweetheart deal, | :47:26. | :47:31. | |
it something permit perfectly normal and available to authorities. We're | :47:32. | :47:37. | |
trying to work it out here. There's actually not much to work out. I | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
think that ridiculous claim was demolished on the day it was made. | :47:43. | :47:53. | |
The second key area... At the Secretary of State looks at page 34 | :47:54. | :47:57. | |
he'll see Surrey- Croydon business rates pool set out in the statement. | :47:58. | :48:08. | |
I thank my honourable friend. I just want him to clarify which councils | :48:09. | :48:15. | |
are eligible to be part of the pilot run the 100% retention of business | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
rate and which ones are not. Is all councils in two tier areas. Madam | :48:22. | :48:27. | |
Deputy Speaker, the second key area where we have listened and responded | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
as funding for adult social care. This is an issue that transcends | :48:32. | :48:37. | |
party politics. Local government may have the statutory duty to look | :48:38. | :48:39. | |
after our most vulnerable citizens but we all have a moral duty to help | :48:40. | :48:44. | |
them do so. The spending review put in place to ?3.5 billion funding for | :48:45. | :48:51. | |
adult social care by 2019-20. We recognise that the coming year is | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
the most difficult in the settlement period for many councils. There are | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
immediate challenges in the provision of care and these are | :49:00. | :49:03. | |
challenges that must be met now before those substantial additional | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
resources become fully available. The settlement creates a new ?240 | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
million adult social care support grant. It allows councils to raise | :49:13. | :49:18. | |
the adult social care precept by up to 3% next year and the year after. | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
Together, these measures make up almost ?900 million of additional | :49:24. | :49:26. | |
funding from adult social care available over the next two years. | :49:27. | :49:31. | |
That means the total dedicated funding available for adult social | :49:32. | :49:35. | |
care over the next four your settlement period is 7.6 billion. I | :49:36. | :49:41. | |
thank the sector estate for giving way. Does he recognise that the | :49:42. | :49:48. | |
packages put forward while welcome will go nowhere near addressing the | :49:49. | :49:54. | |
major crisis in social care that the people in Liverpool are currently | :49:55. | :50:00. | |
suffering from? Madam Deputy is bigger, I do recognise there is more | :50:01. | :50:06. | |
to do, especially in the area of reform of adult social care, | :50:07. | :50:08. | |
something I will come on to in a moment. Of course, some local | :50:09. | :50:14. | |
authorities, when it comes to the precept will be able to raise less | :50:15. | :50:18. | |
than others. That's why we've also confirmed that the improved better | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
care fund allocations, which are worth ?1.5 billion by 2019-20, that | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
these allocations will take into account cancel's ability to raise | :50:29. | :50:37. | |
funding through the precept. I recognise what he says is that it | :50:38. | :50:40. | |
would be tailored in such a way as to help those authorities that can | :50:41. | :50:43. | |
raise less under the precept. The better care fund is really kick in | :50:44. | :50:47. | |
until the following financial year. Why is the government not doing | :50:48. | :50:50. | |
anything to help those councils with a lesser ability to raise the | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
precept in the next financial year 17-18? The honourable gentleman, he | :50:55. | :51:03. | |
may not be aware, the better care fund, whilst it's correct to say it | :51:04. | :51:07. | |
picks up over time, it has already kicked in. I think it's ?105 million | :51:08. | :51:12. | |
this year, rising in the following years but it's already kicked in. He | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
does make an important point and I do listen carefully to what he has | :51:17. | :51:20. | |
to say, especially as chair of the select committee overseeing my | :51:21. | :51:23. | |
department. Hopefully he will agree with me that the better care fund, | :51:24. | :51:29. | |
as it comes in and starts to build up, will start making a bigger | :51:30. | :51:35. | |
difference. I'm sure he'll also... Will he confirm that all additional | :51:36. | :51:40. | |
funds that have been committed and will be committed for the purposes | :51:41. | :51:44. | |
of adult social care will be allocated according to the needs | :51:45. | :51:48. | |
-based formula, not the existing local government formula so that | :51:49. | :51:53. | |
they will truly consider things like sparsity of population and a | :51:54. | :51:58. | |
deteriorating demographic? I can confirm to my honourable friend that | :51:59. | :52:04. | |
the way the funding has been allocated overall is based on | :52:05. | :52:09. | |
relative needs and also in particular, for example, I mentioned | :52:10. | :52:14. | |
the ?240 million fund that this settlement sets up for adult social | :52:15. | :52:18. | |
care, that's also based on need as well. My honourable friend, he has | :52:19. | :52:24. | |
also been a very passionate advocate of making sure that we think about | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
all parts of our country, including the more rural parts that face some | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
particular challenges and I know that in the past he's rightly | :52:35. | :52:38. | |
highlighted and had many constructive discussions with him on | :52:39. | :52:40. | |
this and will continue to do so, that we've got to make sure that | :52:41. | :52:44. | |
those needs -based formulas, whether for adult social care or for funding | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
for local authorities more generally that they are updated and modern and | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
certainly something I'm attempting to do. Thank you Minister. By 2020, | :52:52. | :53:04. | |
using the figures from Northumberland, the rate support | :53:05. | :53:07. | |
grant review will give each person 600 and -- ?6.85, whereby the | :53:08. | :53:13. | |
neighbouring metropolitan Tyne Wear gets ?68 53. Can you explain | :53:14. | :53:24. | |
that? I don't have the same numbers that the honourable gentleman is | :53:25. | :53:29. | |
looking at. Again, what I can tell us that first of all I do recognise | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
that for many local authorities have had to see their core spending power | :53:34. | :53:38. | |
changed and therefore had to deal with some of those challenges. But | :53:39. | :53:42. | |
he might be reassured to know that in his local authority, | :53:43. | :53:46. | |
Northumberland, core spending power per dwelling is over ?1700, which is | :53:47. | :53:53. | |
far higher than the average for that class and I'm sure that goes to help | :53:54. | :54:00. | |
the people in Northumberland. I thank the Secretary of State and I | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
commend the effort via the better care fund to address the demographic | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
issues, to which he refers, which actually transcend party politics. | :54:10. | :54:15. | |
Can I ask specifically, when looking at the efficacy of the funding he's | :54:16. | :54:20. | |
mentioned, will he bring in a fiscal incentive to those local authorities | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
who are trying to integrate adult social care with Acute Hospital care | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
such as Torbay, so they have a real incentive to drive those reforms and | :54:29. | :54:34. | |
changes that are needed. My honourable friend with me directly | :54:35. | :54:41. | |
to my next point, which is about making sure that we all recognise | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
that more money for adult social care is not the only answer. We want | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
every area to move towards integration of health and social | :54:50. | :54:54. | |
care services by 2020 and so it feels much more like one service. I | :54:55. | :54:58. | |
welcome what I believe is a consensus across both sides of the | :54:59. | :55:02. | |
host that in the long term we need to develop reform to make social | :55:03. | :55:06. | |
care more sustainable and effective for everyone. I do think the point | :55:07. | :55:10. | |
my honourable friend is made is an important one that as we work | :55:11. | :55:13. | |
towards integration we should best look to see how we can encourage | :55:14. | :55:22. | |
that. 30 area concerns the fair funding review. | :55:23. | :55:25. | |
It's nearly a decade since the current formula was looked at | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
thoroughly. Some parts of it date back to as far as 1991, a time when | :55:31. | :55:37. | |
Theresa May was an up-and-coming young councillor. It's fair to say | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
that few things have changed since then. The demographic makeup of many | :55:42. | :55:47. | |
areas has altered radically. An ageing population means demand for | :55:48. | :55:51. | |
different services has shifted. And, we're entering a world in which | :55:52. | :55:56. | |
local government spending is funded by local resources, not central | :55:57. | :56:01. | |
grant. So we are undertaking a fair funding review to thoroughly | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
consider how to introduce a more up-to-date, a more transparent and a | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
fairer needs assessment formula. It's vital that the new formula | :56:11. | :56:15. | |
delivers to we're working closely with local government to give way. | :56:16. | :56:19. | |
Will you give way? I will, of course. I welcome many aspects of | :56:20. | :56:26. | |
this statement. He's aware that rural authorities were unhappy at | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
the end of the last Conservative Government, the then Labour | :56:31. | :56:33. | |
Government shifted brutally considerable funds to the inner | :56:34. | :56:37. | |
cities. There is now a massive discrepancies, not just in council | :56:38. | :56:41. | |
tax raised but money redistributed from the the centre and, above all, | :56:42. | :56:45. | |
services. I will vote tonight with the Government, without any great | :56:46. | :56:49. | |
enthusiasm for this settlement. I would like an absolute guarantee | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
this review will go back to the basics and look at the needs and the | :56:54. | :56:56. | |
significant changes on the ground so that next year we come back we will | :56:57. | :57:00. | |
have a completely different settlement which will reverse the | :57:01. | :57:04. | |
trend and bring wealth back fairly to the rural areas. I welcome my | :57:05. | :57:12. | |
right honourable friend's support for the settlement. I very much | :57:13. | :57:17. | |
sympathies with the issues he raised about wrurl communities. He has been | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
a passionate advocate for this for a long time. I'm pleased his only | :57:22. | :57:25. | |
local authority is part of the working group we established to look | :57:26. | :57:30. | |
at the specific challenges faced by more rural areas. I do want to | :57:31. | :57:35. | |
reassure him that this fair funding review must look at the kind of | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
issues he mentioned, that I know he knows a lot about and make sure that | :57:40. | :57:42. | |
this time when we approach this that we get it right. Now, Mr Deputy | :57:43. | :57:52. | |
Speaker, as we conduct this fair funding review, we need to make sure | :57:53. | :57:57. | |
that, as I said, it's up-to-date, it's more transparent and a fairer | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
needs based assessment. It's vital the new formula delivers so we are, | :58:03. | :58:05. | |
woing closely with all of local government in trying to get that | :58:06. | :58:08. | |
right. We had literally hundreds of responses to the call for evidence | :58:09. | :58:12. | |
that my department published last year. It's clear that people in all | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
areas feel very strongly about this, as we've just heard from my right | :58:17. | :58:19. | |
honourable friend. Will you give way? I will. Thank you. I'm grateful | :58:20. | :58:24. | |
for my right honourable friend giving way. When we looks at the | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
review, would he take into account, not least because of the debate on | :58:29. | :58:32. | |
social care, whether the funding review will take into account age | :58:33. | :58:35. | |
based proportions within a community? That may be one way of | :58:36. | :58:40. | |
diverting more money for those at the older age of the spectrum? Mr | :58:41. | :58:48. | |
Deputy Speaker, I can confirm to my honourable friend that is exactly | :58:49. | :58:51. | |
the kind of thing we need to look at more closely. Physical he allows me, | :58:52. | :58:55. | |
I can give him more detail on the kind of things I'm keen to make sure | :58:56. | :59:01. | |
is covered by this review. Now, I've been privileged to hear the views | :59:02. | :59:05. | |
from colleagues across the House on this issue many with direct | :59:06. | :59:08. | |
experience in local government. Various themes have emerged. | :59:09. | :59:10. | |
Foremost is the needed to make sure that the formula works for all local | :59:11. | :59:15. | |
authorities where ever they are, rural councils, in particular, have | :59:16. | :59:20. | |
unique needs that have to be met and councils have been very clear they | :59:21. | :59:23. | |
want to see action sooner rather than later. So I am happy to confirm | :59:24. | :59:28. | |
what we have previously said on this issue. We will make the changes to | :59:29. | :59:33. | |
the fastest possible parliamentary timetable and we will aim to | :59:34. | :59:40. | |
implement new baselines for every authority in 1920, following Royal | :59:41. | :59:48. | |
accent, secondary legislation and the replacement of the funding | :59:49. | :59:53. | |
review. I will update the House when I have further details to share. I'm | :59:54. | :59:58. | |
grateful. In the fastest time parliamentary process will allow. | :59:59. | :00:03. | |
Can I invite him to be clearer on when he will anticipate that means | :00:04. | :00:08. | |
the review being completed and committed to. What I can tell my | :00:09. | :00:13. | |
honourable friend, again I want to take this opportunity to thank him | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
for the role he's played in making sure that this issue is looked at | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
properly, is that he will know that because of the business rates | :00:23. | :00:25. | |
retention commitment that we have, I've talked about it a moment ago, | :00:26. | :00:33. | |
we want that to start in 1920, that financial year, that there will be a | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
requirement to have the proper baseline set for all local | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
authorities before that can be properly brought in. I hope that | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
gives him some comfort on the timing that is necessary with the two | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
things, the fair funding review and the business rates retention plan. | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
They are very much interlinked. There will be various staging posts | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
on the way. As always, I will be more than happy to sit down with my | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
honourable friend and take him through those and discuss it | :01:00. | :01:05. | |
further. I'm grateful. What he is saying is music to my ears also. | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
Does he agree with me, this is exactly the right time to address | :01:12. | :01:20. | |
this issue of unfair funding. It will be there forever. It's vital we | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
get it right now before the retention of business rates goes | :01:25. | :01:30. | |
ahead? He's right on this point. As we move to business rates retention, | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
100% business rates retention, that requirement for local authorities to | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
be more self-sufficient, it is right that we have the correct baselines | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
and that necessary Tats a proper review of needs for all areas and | :01:46. | :01:54. | |
including our most rural areas. -- necesstates. Will he accept that one | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
of the key basis of this review, which is to be welcomed, is to be | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
hoped that we can eradicate the urban versus rural. For those of us | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
who represent rural areas it's tedious to go through all of that | :02:10. | :02:15. | |
every year. It's an arid sort of debate. We are not seeking an unfair | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
advantage to the rural areas, merely fairness and transparency. I'm | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
certainly encouraged from what he said from the box this afternoon. My | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
honourable friend is correct. It is not about special treatment for one | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
area versuses another, it's about recognising the needs of each area. | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
So, for example, when it comes to more rural areas, there are obvious | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
differences, sparsity, for example, the delivery of certain services | :02:46. | :02:47. | |
therefore can be more expensive. There may be others that might be | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
cheaper. It's about having the right data, being more transparent and | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
making sure those needs are met. That's exactly my ambition in | :02:59. | :03:01. | |
looking at this and making sure we get it right. I will give way one | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
more time on this and then I will have to move on. I don't agree with | :03:06. | :03:14. | |
much of what he said, it is a refreshing change to have a | :03:15. | :03:16. | |
Secretary of State who has given away as much as he has in this | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
debate. It contributes very much to the discussion. I wanted to start by | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
saying that. Thank you to the Secretary of State for giving way. | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
Can I just say to the Secretary of State, whether it's 100% retention | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
of business rates, whether it's the fair funding review he is talking | :03:32. | :03:41. | |
about, the key question for local authorities, 62% cash reduction. The | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
opportunity to make sure they deliver the services that the | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
government require them to do that so many local authorities across the | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
country are struggling to do. First, let me thank him for his words. As | :03:56. | :04:02. | |
we conduct this review it's about all areas of England, all local | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
authorities, whether rural or urban making sure that we have the right | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
settlement for each one for the long-term. I think - I hope the | :04:11. | :04:16. | |
honourable gentleman will agree, given the formula hasn't been looked | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
at properly for years and years now. It's out-of-date. It require as | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
fresh look and this is exactly I think the kind of approach that is | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
required. No now, Mr Deputy Speaker, I want to move on another another | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
important topic, for local government we know that funding | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
doesn't just have to be fair for the local government, the area itself, | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
it also has to be fair to the people who provide the funds in the first | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
place and that includes the millions of hard-working business owners who | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
pay business rates. Now, growing up above the family shop I saw for | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
myself the impact an increase in rates can have on small businesses. | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
A rise in the cost lowered the mood of the whole family. As a child I | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
knew it wasn't good when I found a stack of bright red final reminders | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
hidden away at the back of the drawer. My dad was never shy about | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
sharing about what he thought of out of town retail parks and how that | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
took away customers from his shop on the high street. If he were alive | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
today I'm sure he would be the first to phone me up and lobby me about | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
the business rates revaluation, in particular, I could just imagine him | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
telling me about the treatment of large retailers and how it compares | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
to the more traditional shops on our high street. Now, my background | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
helps to explain why I've always been passionate about supporting | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
businesses. It's why, for example, as Business Secretary I Championed | :05:49. | :05:55. | |
the ?6. 7 billion relief passage a that means 600,000 small businesses | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
will never have to pay rates again. That is one third of all businesses. | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
That is the biggest cut in business rates in history. Now, the current | :06:06. | :06:12. | |
rate revaluation is fiscally neutral, it's not being used to | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
raise a single extra penny for the Treasury. To do so would be illegal. | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
For most businesses, three quarters of them in fact, the amount they end | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
up paying will go down or stay the same. As I said, for 600,000 small | :06:26. | :06:32. | |
businesses they are being lifted out of business rates altogether, | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
permanently. While these three quarters of businesses will benefit | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
or seep see no change, I'm also acutely aware of the impact on the | :06:40. | :06:45. | |
quarter that will see increases. If your rates are going up, it's no | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
consolation to hear that others will be going down. I've long recognised | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
the need to provide support. That's precisely why we've put in place a | :06:57. | :07:06. | |
?3.6 billion package of relief to help more than 140,000 smaller | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
businesses. As colleagues and media highlighted in recent days there are | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
some individual businesses facing particular difficulties. For | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
example, businesses that are coming off rate relief can be faced with an | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
alarming cliff edge. Independent retailers, in some high value areas, | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
are also struggling. I have always listened to businesses and this | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
situation is no exception. It's clear to me that more needs to be | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
done to level the playing field and to make the system fairer. I'm | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
working closely with my right honourable friend, the Chancellor, | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
to determine how best to provide further support to businesses facing | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
the steepest increases. We expect to be in a position to make an | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
announcement at the time of the Budget in just two weeks' time. I | :07:54. | :08:02. | |
will give way. As my right honourable friend goes around the | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
country facing council leaders can I invite him to come to Brocks born | :08:09. | :08:15. | |
where he can meet the Chief Executive of Mullins pub, many young | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
people are seeing their rates increase by 200%. That isn't fair, | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
McMullins may not be a small business, if they have to pay high | :08:25. | :08:31. | |
rates at that level they will stop employing young people in my | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
constituency. I will be happy to come to the pub with my honourable | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
friend. He highlights the importance of pubs, not just McMullins, more | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
this House, as we so often have this House, as we so often | :08:45. | :09:00. | |
learn more from him and the pub it noted, pubs are | :09:01. | :09:01. | |
evil is. I will give way to the evil is. I will give way to the | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
Chair of the Select Committee. I take the point it's fiscally neutral | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
and it reflects the change in property prices. Perhaps the | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
Government didn't help themselves delaying it for two years. He | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
referred to the contradiction between the cost of business rates | :09:18. | :09:29. | |
for a premise on the high street is he is he looking on how valuations | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
are done to get a better reflection of the cost of business between the | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
high street and out of town centres? I will come on to the point by the | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
Chair of the Select Committee in a moment. I will come on to those | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
issues next. I will give way before I do so. ... Can I say, I welcome | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
very much his statement and the tone with which that is made. Many of us | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
have raised concerns upon the issues he touches on and in particular in | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
areas like mine, where land values are high, that's no consolationing | :10:06. | :10:08. | |
to the independent trader on the high street. Will he undertake to | :10:09. | :10:15. | |
meet perhaps with myself and other London Conservatives and south-east | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
MPs who have been doing detailed work on this to find a constructive | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
way forward? My honourable friend makes an important issue like areas | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
such as Bromley and challenges businesses face, particularly on the | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
high street. I will be happy not only to meet the leader of his | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
council with him, also to meet the local representatives that he he | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
addressed so we can learn more about those challenges. | :10:41. | :10:47. | |
Business taxes have been around for many decades, centuries eating. | :10:48. | :10:54. | |
Nobody would argue that the system is perfect and it is not entirely | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
right to ask whether the time has come for some kind of reform. The | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
Treasury's 2015 consultation showed little appetite for replacing the | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
whole system. It remains a vital element of the local government | :11:12. | :11:14. | |
finance settlement and its supporters will only rise with the | :11:15. | :11:17. | |
introduction of this dispute retention. With underlying concerns | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
about things like globalisation, international tax structures and the | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
struggle between the high street and the virtual world, there is clearly | :11:27. | :11:29. | |
some room for improvement. We will be looking closely at all possible | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
steps for making it fairer and more sustainable in both the short and | :11:35. | :11:41. | |
long-term. I welcome what the Secretary of State says about a | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
review. He will be interested to know of research conducted recently | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
into shopping centres that showed that business rates were the single | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
largest deterrent of foreign retailers establishing or expanding | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
in the UK. Would he be willing to meet the researchers behind that | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
report to discuss in the context of this review, what can be done to | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
ensure the UK is an attractive destination for foreign retailers? I | :12:07. | :12:13. | |
wondered to make sure that I am listening carefully to anyone, any | :12:14. | :12:20. | |
business, an individual member of Parliament who has concerns to bring | :12:21. | :12:23. | |
to me about the business rates system. I have talked about some of | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
those now. The honourable lady talks about issues about foreign retailers | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
and others and I would gladly look at those issues. If she wants to | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
furnish me with more information I will look at that and make sure | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
that, as we deal with these challenges with a tax that we agree | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
is not perfect but serves an important purpose in funding public | :12:46. | :12:48. | |
services, we must look to see how we can improve the situation. I thank | :12:49. | :12:57. | |
my right honourable friend. Notwithstanding the fact there will | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
always be speculative and vexatious appeals, will he confirm and dispel | :13:02. | :13:08. | |
the urban myths that we are, as the government, in some way getting rid | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
of the appeals process and that the peers will continue to be open, fair | :13:13. | :13:15. | |
and transparent for those who are unhappy with their assessment and | :13:16. | :13:22. | |
business rates? I am very happy to confirm just that two honourable | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
friend. In fact, I think the appeasers are an important and vital | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
part of the system. Businesses must be that they have confidence in the | :13:33. | :13:39. | |
system and if they feel for any reason that their valuation could be | :13:40. | :13:42. | |
wrong, they should be in a position to challenge it. If anything, I want | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
to make it more transparent and easier for businesses who feel there | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
is a valid issue to do just that. For example, some of the changes we | :13:52. | :13:58. | |
have already introduced through the evaluation office will allow some | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
smaller businesses to go directly online to check their valuation and, | :14:04. | :14:06. | |
if they are in any doubt, they will be able to contact the valuation | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
office directly on line or through other forms of direct contact and | :14:11. | :14:17. | |
get the review very quickly. Contrary to the opinions out there | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
that we want to make it harder, I am determined to make sure we have a | :14:22. | :14:24. | |
proper way for businesses to challenge the system as is their | :14:25. | :14:31. | |
right. Mr Deputy Speaker, I must conclude and what the nature of that | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
colleagues have enough time for debate. This local government | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
finance settlement honours are prepared to four-year funding | :14:40. | :14:42. | |
certainty for council is committed to reform. It recognises the cost of | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
delivering adult social care and needs more funding available sooner | :14:47. | :14:49. | |
and that this local councillors in the driving seat with the commitment | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
to support them with a fairer funding formula. I commend it to the | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
House. The question is as on the order paper. With social care in | :14:59. | :15:05. | |
crisis, huge numbers of businesses are deeply worried about rising | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
business rates bills and council tax set to increase by 25% by 2020, this | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
is a local government finance settlement that would work for Mr | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
Singh -- ministers, but would work for anyone else. While there may be | :15:19. | :15:25. | |
some help for businesses most affected by the revaluation, the | :15:26. | :15:27. | |
Prime Minister boss Michael spokesperson was today briefing that | :15:28. | :15:34. | |
there would be no more extra funding available to fund this support for | :15:35. | :15:40. | |
businesses. Perhaps the Minister can confirm whether that is the case or | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
not, because if it is the case, what we will be seeing is one group of | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
businesses who were expecting help being robbed to fund a relief to | :15:49. | :15:54. | |
another group of businesses. Many businesses will receive their new | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
bills next week and council tax bills are almost ready to be sent | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
out. This is the latest the settlement has been for decades. One | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
might have expected there to be better in use in it compared to the | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
original offering in December. There is no new money for local government | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
to tackle the social care crisis, nothing to help councils tackle | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
rising homelessness and the doubling of rough sleeping. Just passing the | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
buck onto local councils while residents are paying more in council | :16:23. | :16:25. | |
tax at the same time as public services deteriorate. I will give | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
way in one second. No wonder this is being described as a hugely | :16:33. | :16:35. | |
disappointing settlement. But my friends, but the words of Lord | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
Porter, chairman of the local government Association and | :16:41. | :16:41. | |
Conservative leader of Essex County Council. Nottinghamshire County | :16:42. | :16:49. | |
Council has lost ?200 million over the last seven years and giving 40% | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
of the budget goes to adult social care, is and the one that they are | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
today we are getting the most heartbreaking stories from our | :16:59. | :17:01. | |
constituents who simply are not getting the care that their loved | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
ones need? My honourable friend makes a very good point. All the | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
more worrying that ministers want to abolish revenue support grant into | :17:11. | :17:13. | |
total and at the Local Government Finance Bill. Perhaps I shouldn't be | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
too harsh on the Secretary of State. He has had a difficult week after | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
all. Accused by the former Conservative Party chair of spinning | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
the numbers, I hear there was concern opposite that of the | :17:29. | :17:30. | |
Secretary of State was being hung out to dry by colleagues. It was | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
good to hear the spokesperson for the Prime Minister confirming that | :17:35. | :17:36. | |
number ten still has confidence in him. In truth, in just eight short | :17:37. | :17:43. | |
months, the Secretary of State has been found asleep at the wheel | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
twice. A social care crisis entirely of the government's own making, | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
which he was warned about well in advance, and now a business rates | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
crisis, which given his party delayed the revaluation by two | :17:57. | :17:59. | |
years, he must have known there would be a problem for many | :18:00. | :18:02. | |
businesses. It has taken him until now to grasp its seriousness. Would | :18:03. | :18:11. | |
he perhaps agree with me that, if county councils like Nottinghamshire | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
what to do better in terms of social care, they can look at cutting the | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
costs are actually going into a unitary authority, just as | :18:21. | :18:23. | |
Nottinghamshire Conservative county council agreed was a good idea, but | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
Labour county council is no doubt thinking about the loans has decided | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
was a bad idea. The honourable lady, who I usually have respect for, | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
might be encouraged, instead of making such a partisan and in | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
accurate point, took the dreaded booklet that has been published by | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
the LGA Libra group, giving 100 examples of the way in which the | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
councils have innovated over the past few years and she might want to | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
encourage some Conservative councillors that she was to take up | :18:56. | :19:02. | |
such examples. The Secretary of State sent a letter to all of his | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
colleagues on that side of the House claiming that the concerns raised | :19:08. | :19:09. | |
over business rates by businesses and hospitals were based, | :19:10. | :19:15. | |
apparently, on a relentless campaign of distortions and half-truths. | :19:16. | :19:18. | |
Leaving aside the question of whether it was ready to release | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
these figures just two members in his own party, the irony is it was | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
quickly exposed that the actual bills businesses will receive are | :19:26. | :19:32. | |
likely to be 7% higher than in the figures he produced. Under-Secretary | :19:33. | :19:35. | |
of State, I would suggest, is in danger of getting a reputation for | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
being sloppy with his use of figures. Ministers have known about | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
the revaluation for a long time. Announcing the delay, the right | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
honourable member for Brentwood explained that it was to prevent | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
unexpected hikes in business rates. Why did the current group of | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
ministers now not think of analysing its consequences in little earlier? | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
How can it possibly be fair for Amazon on, who have avoided paying | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
corporation tax, despite making huge profits, can't see it overall | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
business rates Bill going down, while family-owned businesses which | :20:09. | :20:11. | |
have existed for decades on local high street face huge rises in their | :20:12. | :20:21. | |
bills? To accuse the Federation of Small Businesses, the CBI and the | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
British Retail Consortium of distortions and half-truths in their | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
campaigning is a disgrace and he should apologise to them. Whilst he | :20:29. | :20:36. | |
is discussing the revaluation of business rates, will he perhaps | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
welcomed the government measures in recent years to provide small | :20:41. | :20:43. | |
business rate relief and its indefinite extension which has been | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
advantageous to many of the businesses he claims the government | :20:47. | :20:52. | |
has harmed? I certainly do welcome the small business rates relief that | :20:53. | :20:55. | |
is in existence. I think we will have the wit and see if ministers | :20:56. | :21:02. | |
will give the money to fund support for other businesses who will see | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
even bigger increases in the business rates bills than they | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
expected. He is making a case for more funding for social care and | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
more great relief, how much money does he have in mind and how should | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
that be paid for? If the honourable gentleman will bear with me, I am | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
sorry he was successful in his efforts to get onto the Local | :21:27. | :21:29. | |
Government Finance Bill, but I want to come to the issue of walking home | :21:30. | :21:36. | |
and social care. I thank the honourable gentleman forgiving way. | :21:37. | :21:45. | |
He seems concerned about the group, why was it that he and his | :21:46. | :21:48. | |
colleagues advocated that we should vote for the authorities to increase | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
the multiplier in an arbitrary fashion and that the tax rate of | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
businesses? The minister has got onto his feet because I was coming | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
on to his performance yesterday in the Local Government Finance Bill | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
and to note that given the deep and profound concerns on the question of | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
the business rates revaluation it was a little surprising that the | :22:12. | :22:14. | |
Secretary of State should sound out as minister to reject the idea that | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
any change to business rates was necessary and his spokesperson was | :22:19. | :22:21. | |
still being quoted yesterday as claiming that business concerns were | :22:22. | :22:28. | |
just scaremongering. In 2005, PricewaterhouseCoopers tracked the | :22:29. | :22:31. | |
tax liabilities of the biggest British companies and found that | :22:32. | :22:34. | |
half of the total came from corporation tax, while just 11% came | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
from business rates. Today, corporation tax is volunteered | :22:40. | :22:45. | |
19.7%, while the figure for business rates is 21%. Moving away from | :22:46. | :22:52. | |
taxing revenue and profits and increasing the texture and | :22:53. | :22:55. | |
businesses more reliant on bricks and mortar is surely going the wrong | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
direction, given the rise of the Digital economy. Now, I welcome his | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
decision, as I have said, that there will a review of support for | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
businesses hit hardest by the business rates revaluation. I look | :23:11. | :23:18. | |
forward to him being able to instruct his Minister and to | :23:19. | :23:24. | |
encourage his honourable members to support the amendment that we have | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
tabled again for a report stage at the Local Government Finance Bill | :23:30. | :23:32. | |
requiring a full review of business rates and its impact on local | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
government finance before the Local Government Finance Bill comes into | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
effect. I just wonder if you could clarify something. He has said he | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
supports the 100% retention of business rates for councils did | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
seems to be advocating for a business rates for businesses and | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
yet more money for local councils. But that doesn't seem to add up. | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
Where will the money come from? As we have suggested before in this | :23:59. | :24:05. | |
chamber, we simply don't think it is the right time for cuts in taxes on | :24:06. | :24:12. | |
businesses like Amazon in terms of corporation tax were businesses like | :24:13. | :24:20. | |
Sports Direct for the biggest banks. It is important to get business rate | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
right because from April 2019 local government will be increasingly | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
reliant on that income stream to fund vital public services. Since | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
the party opposite King Power, funding from central government has | :24:33. | :24:35. | |
been cut by more than 40% and they want to axe the revenue support | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
grant completely. ?10 billion less would be spared the councils this | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
year on the public services in England than they spent in 2010-11. | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
Minster have never denied the local government Association calculation | :24:51. | :24:53. | |
is that local authorities are faced with a ?5.8 billion gap by 2020, | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
just to fund a statutory services. This settlement represents a further | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
cut in councils's Quartz spending power. Not a single extra penny of | :25:06. | :25:08. | |
new money for local government has been found for the care of the older | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
son was vulnerable citizens. ?4.6 billion axed from social care | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
budgets since 2010. Over 1 million English adults, people who have | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
served our country, who deserve to be treated properly and with dignity | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
are estimated to have an Medicare needs. A | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
It is a crisis having profound consequences for the national health | :25:32. | :25:40. | |
services and council axe funding for other services to enable them to | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
have the most basic service to the most vulnerable. Back in July last | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
year the Association of Directors for Social Services warned there | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
were serious problems in social care but the Secretary of State wouldn't | :25:54. | :25:59. | |
act then. The Care Quality Commission described adult social | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
care services at a tipping point. It was dismissed as an exaggeration. | :26:04. | :26:10. | |
The Autumn Statement came and went. When the statement of local | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
government finance came round we were presented with money being | :26:16. | :26:20. | |
moved around from one council funding pot and permission to put | :26:21. | :26:23. | |
the council tax up quicker than before. That raises different sums | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
of money in different areas. It's completely unrelated to need. It | :26:28. | :26:35. | |
shifts the burden of solving a national crisis on to hard pressed | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
local councils and local residents and those who are just managing make | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
ends meet. Members from all parties ends meet. Members from all parties | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
have called on the Government to act. The Chairs of the Select | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
Committees on health, communities and local government and the Public | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
Accounts Committee called on ministers to act, yet the crisis has | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
just got worse. The Association of Directors of Social Services and the | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
head of the NHS have all called on ministers to act, indeed, Age UK say | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
that the English social care system is facing complete collapse. I'm | :27:08. | :27:13. | |
grateful to him for giving way. He is right to talk about the need for | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
social care reform. I believe this government is doing just that. Would | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
he like to take the opportunity to congratulate Conservative-run East | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
Sussex County Council who put their budget with the local CCG budget | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
#57bd moving money out of hospitals so the patients come out of hospital | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
and don't in there. Would that be a good example of local reform that is | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
absolutely delivering now? I'm supportive of things that improve | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
our services to local people. What I'm surprised about, it I mate say, | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
is the honourable gentleman's complacency that the social care | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
crisis is not in existence at all, which seems to be the implication of | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
his remarks. Local authorities up-and-down the country, if he spoke | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
to councillors in East Sussex, he would find they are deeply worried | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
about the social care situation. He will give way to him. I'm grateful. | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
I talk to my councillors on a regular basis, I'm here to represent | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
them as I am for all constituents. When he talks about a a crisis. | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
There are challenges in the system. There is a need for reform. The talk | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
of crisis to me is scaremongering and sending out the signal things | :28:23. | :28:25. | |
can't be fixed at a local level when my County Council is showing that | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
can be by hard work, imagination and application. If the honourable | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
gentleman won't listen to me perhaps he will listen to the Chair of the | :28:35. | :28:41. | |
LGA's health and willing being board and ksh leader of Warwickshire | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
council she said, "to continue it's looking like we are cutting it into | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
the bone of services that matter to people." According to analysis, 147 | :28:51. | :29:00. | |
of England social care authorities introducing the social care | :29:01. | :29:02. | |
pre-September for next year. They estimate that that will raise just | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
over ?540 million which does not even cover the cost of paying for | :29:08. | :29:10. | |
the Government's national living wage. It won't tackle either the | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
growing crisis in services available to support the elderly or disabled | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
or stop the need for cuts to local services, including social care. | :29:20. | :29:21. | |
Such is the funding crisis. Of course I will give way. Grateful. He | :29:22. | :29:30. | |
referred earlier to the needs within different local authorities. Does he | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
accept that some local authorities are under greater pressure than | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
others. 13 London boroughs were able to reduce or freeze council tax in | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
2016-17 where many other local authorities were not able to do | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
that. Is he advocating a system purely based upon cost drivers a | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
future system based on cost drivers, based on need and the cost of | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
delivery rather than the formulas in previous years based on regression | :30:03. | :30:05. | |
The honourable gentleman will remember he and I had this | :30:06. | :30:10. | |
discussion many times in the sessions on the local government | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
finance bill. What I suggest to him is he seeks to champion his | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
constituency and what I know a rural area. He might want to talk to | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
ministers where they are intending to abolish the rural delivery | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
services grant which was introduced to provide additional funding to | :30:29. | :30:34. | |
rural areas like his own. He knows very well that is in the context of | :30:35. | :30:41. | |
much more money coming into the system, ?12.5 billion by 2020. That | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
is the context he is talking about rather than withdrawing funding from | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
local authorities? I suggest to the honourable gentleman given the scale | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
of the funding crisis facing local government at the moment, given the | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
abolition of other funding streams, such as the ?3 billion that is going | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
in terms of the public health grant that will be abolished as well, he | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
ought to be more of a champion for rural areas in trying to defend, I | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
might suggest, his own area's funding through the rural delivery | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
services grant. I will take the honourable lady the Chairman of the | :31:17. | :31:20. | |
Health Select Committee. I would like to put on record that my | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
constituency covers part of Torbay which has a national and | :31:26. | :31:28. | |
international reputation for integration of health and social | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
care, but despite that is now under extraordinary pressure from a number | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
of sources and I think it's very important that ministers are aware | :31:39. | :31:41. | |
of the strain that social care is under. Quite right. Well, I commend | :31:42. | :31:48. | |
the honourable lady's remarks she has been a brave voice on her side | :31:49. | :31:54. | |
of the House in raising this issue. Happily give way to my honourable | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
friend. I thank you for giving way. I think he was right earlier on when | :31:59. | :32:05. | |
he said local authorities are allowed to raise that money by 2021 | :32:06. | :32:12. | |
it won't cover the cost as there will be a deficit. Having said that, | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
by 2021 there will be a deficit of ?33 million that gives you the scale | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
of the problem. My honourable friend has taken a number of opportunities | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
of late to champion his local authority and the difficulties it is | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
facing, not only now but in the long-term. What the situation that | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
he describes in terms of commentary is being mirrored up-and-down the | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
country. It is time that ministers grasp the seriousness of the | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
situation. The Local Government Association, I will give way in a | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
second, has made clear the continued under funding the social care is | :32:53. | :32:55. | |
making impossible for many local authorities to fulfil their legal | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
duties under the Care app act and leaving open the prospect of a | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
series of costly court challenges. It is true that some money, ?240 | :33:04. | :33:09. | |
million has been switched from the new homes bonus to fund social care. | :33:10. | :33:15. | |
When serious analysts suggest that ?1.3 billion is needed urgently now | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
to stabilise the social care system and that the funding gap for social | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
care is expected to reach ?2.6 billion by 2020, it is difficult to | :33:25. | :33:27. | |
find anyone, even in the Government's own party who thinks | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
ministers are on track to sort the social care Cha thaengs our country | :33:32. | :33:40. | |
faces. In terms of social care funding, is it not disappointing | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
there is an attempt now to blame local authorities for the problems | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
that central government is making. When Mr Stevens came to the select | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
he committee he made it clear there would be a funding problem for | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
social care in this country even if every local authority performed at | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
the level of the best? Well, my honourable friend makes a very good | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
point. The default position for members opposite when there is an | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
issue raised in terms of the funding gap both for social care and other | :34:12. | :34:14. | |
services is to blame local authorities. The evidence of Simon | :34:15. | :34:21. | |
Stevens and others rightly rebutts that point. OK. I'm grateful. On | :34:22. | :34:31. | |
this side of the House we blame the Labour frontbench for shamelessly | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
rigging the system in favour of Labour controlled cities during | :34:37. | :34:39. | |
their time in government. I'm sure the Shadow Minister will welcome the | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
review announced today to make sure the future funding formula for local | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
government is much fairer to both urban and rural. Well, I admire the | :34:49. | :34:56. | |
honourable gentleman, if nothing else. In terms of mates rates | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
arrangements we will come to Surrey County Council in just a second. | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
Just last month the Secretary of State once again told the House that | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
in the last spending review the Government allocated an additional | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
?3.5 billion a year by 2020 to adult social care. This is based on ?1.5 | :35:14. | :35:19. | |
billion from the back loaded better care fund and ?2 billion from the | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
social care. When you look closely the ?2 billion figure is rounded up | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
from the department's estimate that ?1.8 billion would be raised. That | :35:29. | :35:40. | |
was based on every council raising it by the set amount. Not all | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
councils will do so. When we look at it closely, it builds in the | :35:46. | :35:53. | |
assumption that there will be an additional ?1. 1.5 billion House of | :35:54. | :36:01. | |
Lords... I have no idea how they have plucked the figure of 1.5 | :36:02. | :36:08. | |
million new households paying... Perhaps he will be tempted to call | :36:09. | :36:11. | |
this another case of spinning the numbers. The truth is, the | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
additional funding the Government claims to be putting into social | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
care is far from guaranteed. Even then, unless the Government finds | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
genuinely new money there will still be a significant funding gap by | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
2020. Let us come to Surrey County Council and the sorry saga of the | :36:31. | :36:38. | |
abandon 15% council tax referendum. The leader of Surrey County Council | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
revealed he had made cuts of ?450 million and explained that he would | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
have to take an axe to services if the extra ?60 million at 15% hike in | :36:50. | :36:53. | |
council tax would have raised wasn't greed. One reason why Surrey's | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
announcement was so striking is that they have been able to increase | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
spending on adult social care by over 34% since 2010-11. Some | :37:04. | :37:11. | |
councils had to decrease spending on adult social care. Only two out of | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
the 152 social care providing local authorities have been able to | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
increase their spending on social care more than Surrey. If Surrey | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
says they can't cope with the demand for social care, where can? In the | :37:24. | :37:28. | |
most deprived areas of the country, social care spending fell by ?65 per | :37:29. | :37:34. | |
person as councils have been hit particularly hard by Government | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
funding cuts, but rose by ?28 per person in the least deprived areas. | :37:39. | :37:44. | |
The ocean air would only further entrench this inequality. Blackpool, | :37:45. | :37:52. | |
the most deprived authority area in the country faces 31% reduction in | :37:53. | :37:59. | |
its spending power. Woking ham, the least depraved area, a 4% fall in | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
the same period. Perhaps ministers will today finally take the | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
opportunity to enlighten us about what discussions took place between | :38:09. | :38:10. | |
their department and Surrey County Council. From the outside it looks | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
like policy making on the hoof. Ministers embarrassed by one of | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
their own, exposing the fallacy of their argue up. Ministers seem to | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
have settled on opening up the business rates retention pilot | :38:24. | :38:31. | |
scheme. Why is that Surrey were given special access when other | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
local authorities have not been told how they can apply now. Woking ham | :38:36. | :38:43. | |
starts ?400 ahead worse off than the best rewarded ones. That is why | :38:44. | :38:46. | |
there is a different you rate. I suggest he might like to think about | :38:47. | :38:52. | |
the funding for the services need in that area. I suggest in that spirit | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
he might recognise the accuracy of the figures I've just given. Thank | :38:57. | :39:05. | |
you. If you take, for example, an authority like Coventry from 2010 | :39:06. | :39:12. | |
until 2020, they will have had 50% cut in Government grants and the | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
Government is shifting the Government is shifting the | :39:17. | :39:18. | |
responsibility of grants into local authorities. Coventry will have lost | :39:19. | :39:24. | |
?655 million. That will be typical of local authorities up-and-down the | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
country. He make as good point. The more reason why we need to continue | :39:30. | :39:36. | |
to hold the party opposite for their decision to axe it in full under the | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
bill. Rough sleeping fell to historic lows | :39:41. | :39:53. | |
under Labour. It's doubled since 2010. The number of social homes | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
being built is at the lowest level on record. With more than a million | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
people on social housing waiting lists, council spending on housing | :40:02. | :40:04. | |
families in temporary accommodation has gone up by 46%. Ministers aric | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
taking money away from councils through the new homes bonus. | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
Ministers sing the praises of the multi year settlement as a way to | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
give local government certainty but make a late switch leaving many | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
countries with an unplanned switch in their beens. No areas in England | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
have been spared from cuts on services. The doors have shut on | :40:28. | :40:30. | |
libraries, day centres and care homes. Bus services, youth services | :40:31. | :40:37. | |
and leisure centres have closed or had their hours restricted. Funding | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
and contracts for local charities taken away. Advice services have | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
gone. Street cleaning has been sharply reduced. All these services | :40:48. | :40:53. | |
are vital life lines for vulnerable residents have been cutting. The | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
people of England are left with worse public services. It will | :40:59. | :41:00. | |
deepen the divide between those parts of the country that are well | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
off and those who rank highest for deprivation. It will not remotely | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
tackle the social care cries is and will hit the pockets of those | :41:10. | :41:12. | |
struggling to balance their budgets particularly hard. It doesn't tackle | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
the long-term problems facing councils from an increasing | :41:18. | :41:19. | |
dependence on business rates. England deserves better. That's why | :41:20. | :41:22. | |
we will be voting against this report. | :41:23. | :41:29. | |
Could I begin by paying a handsome tribute to all councillors, where | :41:30. | :41:37. | |
ever they may be and bit political party they are? I am being | :41:38. | :41:45. | |
nonpartisan. If you have a good councillor, they are genuinely with | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
their weight in gold, whatever their political allegiances may be. If you | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
are a half decent member of Parliament you will work hand in | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
glove with your councillors. I have always tried to do that come with it | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
is at the Parish level, whether it is in the district were Barral level | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
and at the higher tier in the county level, because I benefit from a | :42:09. | :42:17. | |
unitary authority. We should say a big thank you to the work that so | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
many of our good councillors do, that they have a critical role not | :42:22. | :42:27. | |
only in delivering democracy, but in delivering the key and most | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
important of our public services. I have only ever stood once for a | :42:32. | :42:37. | |
council, I was unsuccessful, but I never doubted this invaluable work | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
that local authorities do and I think we often forget the value of | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
that work was that could I apologise to any members of Nottinghamshire's | :42:48. | :42:54. | |
county council, Labour members can I was not suggesting they were | :42:55. | :42:57. | |
resisting moves to be unitary because they might fear they would | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
lose their allowances, but the reality is, I will be blunt, but in | :43:02. | :43:07. | |
too many areas, including some Conservative and Lib Dem areas, but | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
when there is a genuine need for a unitary authority, and I am of the | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
firm view that we should go unitary, with very few exceptions. I said | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
that because I wanted the pleasure of going to rugby come as a borough | :43:23. | :43:28. | |
council it could be the fact a unitary, because they do a cracking | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
job. Not every council should be unitary, but overwhelmingly, and I | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
would urge this on the Secretary of State and his ministerial team, to | :43:38. | :43:43. | |
look at his desire to have unitary authorities and to say to make of | :43:44. | :43:46. | |
our colleagues in the Conservative Party and across the other way, the | :43:47. | :43:53. | |
days when you could sit on a borough for district taking an allowance, | :43:54. | :43:59. | |
doing a good job for your community, but those days have gone. We do need | :44:00. | :44:04. | |
to move to a unitary model in order to make sure that we reduce our | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
costs, but also deliver services in a more effective and efficient way. | :44:10. | :44:17. | |
In our area we have yet local authorities. It cannot be right in | :44:18. | :44:27. | |
terms of removing the tears of bureaucracy and cost that we need to | :44:28. | :44:31. | |
do to maximise resources. I could not agree with my honourable friend | :44:32. | :44:37. | |
more. He makes a compelling point here. I am going to turn to Brock | :44:38. | :44:41. | |
steal her counsel and they have done a terrific job. I will pay credit to | :44:42. | :44:49. | |
the previous Labour and Lib Dem controlled authority, when it was | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
run by them, because they did actually start to share their | :44:54. | :44:56. | |
back-office facilities. They take the firm view that the new | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
Conservative run for a council is even better. Genuinely am I | :45:01. | :45:07. | |
genuinely believe it is. Notwithstanding the unfortunate | :45:08. | :45:10. | |
position they find themselves in, which I am about to address, because | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
it is not all roses in my speech as you might imagine. We are here to | :45:16. | :45:21. | |
represent our constituents and that means we are sure to represent our | :45:22. | :45:29. | |
hard-working councillors. The council, no Conservative run, has | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
continued much of the good work of Kings -- Charing Park offices. As my | :45:34. | :45:39. | |
friend identifies, there is only so much you can do. What we're finding | :45:40. | :45:43. | |
is that we are sharing and can share back office functions, but we are | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
going across borders. We are sharing of those back offices with | :45:48. | :45:55. | |
Rushcliffe. I have spoken to the leader of borough council, Richard | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
Jackson, and I said I am worried about this. We share the view that | :46:01. | :46:03. | |
we should be moving to unitary, which is a brave when you are the | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
leader of the borough council. He is also on the county council. | :46:09. | :46:11. | |
Conservatives on the borough are being brave and seeing that going | :46:12. | :46:18. | |
unitary would be to the benefit. They have two or more with | :46:19. | :46:22. | |
authorities in the county and not perhaps across the border into | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
Derbyshire. They are sharing back office duties. As the honourable | :46:27. | :46:29. | |
gentleman says, there is only so much that you can do and when you | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
just look at planning, no disrespect to my planning officers who, in | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
reality, need one unitary authority when it comes to these important | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
matters. Turning to the difficulties that Brock still faces because of | :46:45. | :46:55. | |
the settlement. We will lose... A total of ?1.1 million over the next | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
three years. This equates to an increase in council tax of about 5% | :47:00. | :47:06. | |
and we really do need to bear in mind Mr Deputy Speaker that no doubt | :47:07. | :47:09. | |
one of the reasons the Conservatives came into power in 2015, one of the | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
reasons, was that we promised we would not increase council tax. We | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
do not want to put up council tax. We are faced with the big drop in | :47:20. | :47:23. | |
their income in the forthcoming year. The thing which agitates the | :47:24. | :47:29. | |
council even more, agitates Richard Jackson, is the short notice which | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
they got in relation to the settlement and, as he put it to me, | :47:34. | :47:40. | |
the administration hardly had any time to plan for the reductions that | :47:41. | :47:43. | |
will be needed with literally a few weeks to do so in order to balance | :47:44. | :47:50. | |
the budget next year and it is tough to say this, but the reality is | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
that, increasingly, for all our local authorities, they are finding | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
themselves in financial difficulty. They have a desire to deliver | :48:00. | :48:04. | |
excellent services, but they are finding that the amount of money | :48:05. | :48:08. | |
that they have available to them, notwithstanding the good work that | :48:09. | :48:13. | |
so many have done in reducing their costs, is putting a strain on their | :48:14. | :48:16. | |
ability to deliver the first class services that they are determined | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
they will deliver. I did make that plea on behalf of the Borough | :48:22. | :48:26. | |
Council, that they have accepted this cut, it would be difficult, and | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
the Secretary of State was good enough to arrange a meeting and we | :48:31. | :48:35. | |
are grateful for that, but enough is enough. This must be the end of | :48:36. | :48:39. | |
these sorts of cuts for good local authorities. Could I turn, if I may, | :48:40. | :48:47. | |
to the issue of business rates. I have no doubt whatsoever, having had | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
the pleasure of working with the Secretary of State for some 12 | :48:52. | :48:54. | |
months and if you've more, that he absolutely understands the needs, | :48:55. | :49:02. | |
the pressures and, indeed, the joys especially of running small | :49:03. | :49:05. | |
businesses. He gets it, of course he gets and understands that. In our | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
time together, we did do so much to improve the lot of small businesses. | :49:11. | :49:18. | |
My concern, I have a big concerns about business rates, now is not the | :49:19. | :49:21. | |
time to go into all of that. Business rates are about system, in | :49:22. | :49:27. | |
my view. It is inherently unfair. It matters not how much money you make | :49:28. | :49:33. | |
or lose, you still have to pay your rates and that is absolutely wrong. | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
You can get a certain space that might have only a couple of people | :49:39. | :49:43. | |
working in it, but it could be making millions and millions of | :49:44. | :49:45. | |
pounds in profits because it is basically an online search this -- | :49:46. | :49:52. | |
service. That same space could be a shop in a high street which is | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
struggling. We all want our high streets to be thriving places. It | :49:58. | :50:00. | |
will deploy there be three more new book, it will have a much smaller | :50:01. | :50:06. | |
turnover, but it's rates will be exactly the same as that | :50:07. | :50:10. | |
multi-million pound business in the same space. I am sorry, but that is | :50:11. | :50:16. | |
not fair. As I say, now is not the time to discuss this. I think the | :50:17. | :50:19. | |
government gets it and the trick is to find an alternative that still | :50:20. | :50:25. | |
raises the same amount of money and I accept that is difficult. I agree | :50:26. | :50:33. | |
with a lot of what she has said, but if you look at business rates, we | :50:34. | :50:40. | |
are talking small businesses. Only small business could face an | :50:41. | :50:43. | |
increase in the rates of something like ?17,000 a year. That is a lot | :50:44. | :50:47. | |
of money which could put small businesses out of business. I think | :50:48. | :50:54. | |
the honourable gentleman for his intervention, but I think we do have | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
to realise that when we define small business with companies from | :50:59. | :51:04. | |
different ways. There is a profound difference tween the government | :51:05. | :51:07. | |
definition of a small business, which is only business employing | :51:08. | :51:11. | |
under 250 people and the real micro-businesses which so many of us | :51:12. | :51:16. | |
have so many in our constituencies. Who should not underestimate the | :51:17. | :51:22. | |
benefit that many of them have had from the raising of the threshold to | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
12 and half thousand pounds a year. That has been a real boost. The | :51:27. | :51:32. | |
difficulty is that there are many small businesses, the micro ones | :51:33. | :51:35. | |
employing five people, if not even fewer than that we still have this | :51:36. | :51:39. | |
burden of rates. And then the government can do to improve the | :51:40. | :51:45. | |
situation is hugely welcomed. The situation in my constituency, what | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
concerns me is that when some businesses will undoubtedly benefit | :51:50. | :51:52. | |
from this revaluation, and we don't know all the details because it has | :51:53. | :51:57. | |
not been officially announced and would be until March, but we know | :51:58. | :52:02. | |
the multiplier is reduced and we are looking and asking small businesses | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
about the effect. Weepu small businesses will benefit. My concern | :52:07. | :52:14. | |
is that some pubs might have quite an unbearable rise in their rates. | :52:15. | :52:20. | |
We don't have all the details and a note the Secretary of State will | :52:21. | :52:22. | |
want to know those details and I will give them to him. We know the | :52:23. | :52:25. | |
value of pubs. We know they are important to our communities but | :52:26. | :52:31. | |
they are important to our economy as well. The are grouped small | :52:32. | :52:35. | |
businesses. There are concerns about that. There are concerns that some | :52:36. | :52:38. | |
supermarkets will find a reduction in rates, but other businesses | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
employing five or ten people were found an increase in their rates. In | :52:44. | :52:49. | |
my constituency it is neutral, not the 0.7 in the letter. It is just | :52:50. | :52:57. | |
that it might be an equal in terms of who pays more and who pays less. | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
We think the regional part, we have three retail parks, some of those | :53:02. | :53:07. | |
businesses might be paying less, but in the high Street and the result | :53:08. | :53:12. | |
was a debate about regional Park versus the high Street and it is | :53:13. | :53:17. | |
often a battle between the two, and we think some high streets will pay | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
more while retail parks will be paying less and is on the retail | :53:22. | :53:27. | |
parks that you have the big businesses that, I am not saying | :53:28. | :53:33. | |
they can necessarily afford it, but they can probably suck it up in a | :53:34. | :53:36. | |
way that a small independent business cannot. I will provide any | :53:37. | :53:43. | |
details as they come out to the Secretary of State. I know he will | :53:44. | :53:49. | |
take those on board. I do just very quickly on to say about social care. | :53:50. | :53:54. | |
I have no doubt this government understands the very real strains in | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
our social care system and I welcome all that has been done. I think | :54:01. | :54:05. | |
there is much more that also needs to be done. I reject the use of the | :54:06. | :54:11. | |
word crisis. It is a word that is horribly overused. I don't think we | :54:12. | :54:16. | |
are in a crisis. I think our services are strained, but they are | :54:17. | :54:20. | |
not in a crisis and a note in Nottinghamshire, the Conservatives | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
have made it clear that if we are successful in May and in control | :54:25. | :54:27. | |
again of the county council, we will use the very good systems in place | :54:28. | :54:36. | |
to raise the additional money through the preset. The extra 3%. We | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
will do that to raise as much money as possible for social care. I | :54:41. | :54:44. | |
greatly fear the reality is that, from government, from the taxpayer, | :54:45. | :54:50. | |
we need to put more into it. I will have to say this, I spoke to the | :54:51. | :54:54. | |
Chief Executive of Nottinghamshire on Friday and such is the strain, | :54:55. | :54:58. | |
for all sorts of reasons which I don't have the time to go into, one | :54:59. | :55:02. | |
of the reasons Nottinghamshire finds itself in the position of not being | :55:03. | :55:08. | |
able to offer care homes for unaccompanied child refugees is | :55:09. | :55:11. | |
because of the extraordinary cost that is required to make sure that | :55:12. | :55:16. | |
those unaccompanied refugee children are kept safe. It is very important | :55:17. | :55:20. | |
to get the right services and placement. At the moment, | :55:21. | :55:24. | |
Nottinghamshire does not have the resources to do the right thing by | :55:25. | :55:28. | |
those unaccompanied children. So, we do have to bear in mind, as I said | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
at the beginning, the real strains that are being put on our local | :55:33. | :55:38. | |
I made the point about unitary authorities. I would urge the | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
Secretary of State to consider being even more brave than he is and look | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
at saying, actually, we are going to take this bull by the horns and say | :55:48. | :55:54. | |
to councils - now is the time, you must become unitary because for many | :55:55. | :55:59. | |
it is the way forward to save unhundred, but actually, most | :56:00. | :56:05. | |
importantly, to improve services. First of all, the obvious point is | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
that there's no change from the provisional settlement. We are | :56:10. | :56:12. | |
talking about the same figures as the Government presented to us a few | :56:13. | :56:18. | |
weeks ago. It's difficult to imagine that nothing that any local | :56:19. | :56:21. | |
councillor saying during this time has been relevant to their financial | :56:22. | :56:25. | |
circumstances to the extent that ministers feel the need to respond | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
to it in some way. If that's the ways, no change whatsoever to the | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
initial proposals. This does therefore represent a continuation | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
of the cuts that began in 2010. I welcome, and have done previously, | :56:40. | :56:43. | |
the four year spending settlements that have been given to councils. I | :56:44. | :56:46. | |
think that's a emhadful step forward. I know local government has | :56:47. | :56:50. | |
welcomed that in general, as well. It is a cash flat settlement over a | :56:51. | :56:57. | |
period of four years. Therefore, that means a continuation of cuts | :56:58. | :57:06. | |
because cash does buy less over a four year period with inflationary | :57:07. | :57:09. | |
pressures, but the additional pressures on service from the | :57:10. | :57:13. | |
growing number of elderly, the extra pressures of the care act and the | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
children and families act. The pressures that local authorities are | :57:18. | :57:22. | |
having to absorb within that cash flat settlement. The auditor and | :57:23. | :57:28. | |
controller general figures say that the spending power in real terms for | :57:29. | :57:34. | |
local authorities has reduced by 25% between 2010 and 2016. He then says | :57:35. | :57:41. | |
there is going to be a further 6% predubgs up to 2020. He is saying | :57:42. | :57:47. | |
the cuts are continuing. Furthermore, it's very clear that | :57:48. | :57:51. | |
local government has received bigger cuts over a longer period of time | :57:52. | :57:57. | |
than any other service that's provided by Government. Far bigger | :57:58. | :58:03. | |
than any service provided by any other central Government department. | :58:04. | :58:07. | |
No other Government department has had cuts on that scale. That is the | :58:08. | :58:13. | |
reality of the situation. I don't think it can be challenged because | :58:14. | :58:16. | |
they are the facts. The Local Government Association said that by | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
2020, at the end of the spending review period, there will be a gap | :58:21. | :58:24. | |
of ?5.8 billion. That's their figure. I know there will be some | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
people who say - they would say that, wouldn't they, they want extra | :58:29. | :58:34. | |
money? They may just be right. There may be those demands on service | :58:35. | :58:39. | |
provision that can't be met by the funding settlement that has been | :58:40. | :58:42. | |
agreed to. All I would say to the Secretary of State and the Minister | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
is, please think very carefully when the position comes for decisions to | :58:48. | :58:53. | |
to be made about the scheme for 100% business rate retention and extra | :58:54. | :58:58. | |
?11 to ?13 billion that are going to be allocated. The Local Government | :58:59. | :59:01. | |
Association is saying very clearly, the first call on those resources | :59:02. | :59:05. | |
should be the existing services that can't be funded with the existing | :59:06. | :59:10. | |
money be that local government has. That is a very fundamental point. I | :59:11. | :59:13. | |
hear what members are saying opposite, about the need to get the | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
needs assessment right and the Select Committee, I see one of my | :59:18. | :59:20. | |
colleagues on the Select Committee is nodding in agreement. She is | :59:21. | :59:26. | |
looking at needs assessment, we are commissioning work on that as well. | :59:27. | :59:35. | |
No good getting that right if you get wrong the overall needs of local | :59:36. | :59:39. | |
government as a whole at the beginning of this process. That is | :59:40. | :59:43. | |
why we need to take particular account of that demand. My only | :59:44. | :59:46. | |
authority, Sheffield, has challenges next year. It's saying to me, | :59:47. | :59:55. | |
another ?23 million cut in revenue support grant. Savings are needed to | :59:56. | :00:01. | |
make inflation and demands like the council have to make, to deal with, | :00:02. | :00:06. | |
particularly around social care. And, they are saying, again, this is | :00:07. | :00:11. | |
going to mean reductions in the standard of provision of servicesle | :00:12. | :00:14. | |
right across the board. They will try and protect social care. That | :00:15. | :00:17. | |
does mean less money for other services such as parks and open | :00:18. | :00:22. | |
spaces where the Select Committee has done a report showing the stress | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
and strains occurring in those particular services as well. I want | :00:27. | :00:29. | |
to pay particular attention now to social care. It's been given a lot | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
of attention, rightly so. Along with the Chair of the Health Select | :00:35. | :00:39. | |
Committee and the Chair of the Public Accounts Select Committee I | :00:40. | :00:42. | |
wrote to the Prime Minister and asked for a review of the long-term | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
care needs of - long-term needs of funding for social care and asked | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
for that to be done on an all party basis. I still think that needs to | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
be done. We need to reach a new settlement, clearly the currentsome | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
system does not work. We have to make the best of it for the time | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
being, but we need something, reached by general agreement, of a | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
more substantial nature for the longer term. Something that will | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
stand the test of time. That review still needs to be done. But | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
immediately, let us look at the situation. Again, there will be ?2.6 | :01:18. | :01:26. | |
billion of deficit in social care funding by the end of this financial | :01:27. | :01:33. | |
settlement in 2020. Of which ?1.3 billion is here and now. They are | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
saying that next year, despite the Government's proposals on the | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
increase in preset up to 3%, despite the cut in the new homeless bonus to | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
allow for extra social care grant, despite those things, the Local | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
Government Association are still saying a ?1.3 billion deficit. The | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
Select Committee are doing an inquiry into social care at present. | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
I won't pre-judge the outcome of that. We will be producing reports | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
in due course, that will be wrong of me to do so. What I can say, | :02:08. | :02:12. | |
however, is that we have evidence from the King's Fund, the nut field | :02:13. | :02:19. | |
Trust from IFS, very similar figures about the gap which currently exist. | :02:20. | :02:25. | |
They may disagree by a few 100,000. Essentially, they are all saying | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
there is a current gap in terms of the provision of adult social care, | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
a gap in the money that local authorities have available to meet | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
their leads. Of course I will give way. Grateful. He talked ermier | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
about a long-term solution to adult social care. He and I went to | :02:43. | :02:49. | |
Germany to look at the care system. We were both impressed I think about | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
their achievement of a cross-party consensus about a future solution | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
for adult social care. Is that something he would advocate when we | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
look at it in the long-term and cross-party? Absolutely. I think | :03:03. | :03:10. | |
their system may not be immediately transferable. They did this on a | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
cross-party basis, 20 years ago. They got cross-party agreement and | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
they are having to put their rates of contributions up now. They have | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
done so with cross-party agreement and with general public support | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
because they have the system in place standing the test of time. | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
There is an example of about how to do it if we come up with a different | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
solution we should look at the method they used to reach that | :03:36. | :03:38. | |
agreement and put a system in place that stands the test of time. | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
Absolutely right op that point. The Government has given local | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
authorities the right to increase presets by 3% in the next financial | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
year. I welcome the fact that most local authorities have chosen to do | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
that. There are problems with council tax, it isn't the most | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
progressive of taxes there could be reforms we could make to improve | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
that. Nevertheless, in the end, local authorities faced with a | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
choice of having not enough money to care for elderly people and going to | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
council taxpayers and say why the increase is necessary. They have | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
done that and I think that is right and they should be congratulated for | :04:16. | :04:22. | |
it. Even then, the money that will be raised by the preset covers the | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
cost of the increase in the living wage, as the Government calls it. In | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
other words, the money has gone straight out of the door in extra | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
pay. Absolutely right, it goes to low-paid workers who do an | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
absolutely superb job in most cases, you know, and under great stress and | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
strain to deliver it. Absolutely right they get more pay, but the | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
money that is raised by the preset isn't going to actually sustain the | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
level of social care given the extra demands based upon it. That is the | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
reality. I mention the cut in the new homes bonus, Mr Deputy Speaker. | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
I live in Sheffield, a unitary authority. I reflect on the issues | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
for two-tier authorities where the County Council is getting extra | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
social care grant and the money is coming from the budgets. District | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
councils and the cut in the new homes bonus. I would say, although | :05:17. | :05:23. | |
the new homes bonus was not parto fish Ali of the four year | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
settlement. For a smaller council who fact Order into their plans the | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
bonus coming in, to have an element of that removed is a considerable | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
financial shock to the system and a very difficult thing for them to | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
address at short notice. I have sympathy with councillors and their | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
officials in those small district councils who are struggling as a | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
result of this change which creates the uncertainty the Government was | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
trying to remove by the creation of a four-year settlement. That is is | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
something we should be concerned about and reflect upon. I will come | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
on to comments about business rates. But before I do, I will reflect on | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
one or two comments that might be appropriate that have been made by | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
Mr Morse, the auditor and controller general. I don't know how many | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
members have read his article recently, it's up on the website, he | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
talks about the issue, and it is about social care and the cuts in | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
funding and the relationship to the NHS. He call it is a - lack of | :06:29. | :06:37. | |
joined up thinking. It talks about central government making decisions | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
and it might be very appropriate to read the words that he uses. "Those | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
operating outside a department's boundary or with a different mandate | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
without necessarily understanding the effectical allocating savings | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
for others to make." In other words, Government department allocating | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
savings for someone else to make without understanding their impacts. | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
It sound horribly true, doesn't it, when it's put like that? He talks | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
about central government being slow to adjust, often acting only when | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
serious failure occurs. It's an interesting report because he talks | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
about local councils, it's an interesting article. Local councils | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
are responding with efficiency savings. Members have called for | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
more efficiency savings from local councils. He says that's OK at the | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
beginning, over time, "while councils could initially respond | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
with more for less, we have got to the point where it's less for less." | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
In his words, "during this progressive reduction in under | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
iffing I've not seen any evidence based effort to reconcile funding to | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
local needs. In my view, the policy objectives for local government and | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
the local government statutory duties have not been properly | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
weighted against potential efficiency savings." He said that | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
local authorities have tried to protect social care. There has been | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
a 7% reduction in real terms. That's an effect on care - on the users of | :08:09. | :08:16. | |
the care service, but also a reduction which has been affect on | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
its to the NHS. Costs are being shunted from one part of the | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
connected system to another. He is not blipping local councils for | :08:25. | :08:27. | |
this. He is blaming central government for having got it so | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
badly wrong in how they've gone about this. He also says, members | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
opposite may not be always willing to accept this. "Areas with the | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
greatest needs have lost the most." That's the independent review from | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
the auditor and controller general. He says, "central savings may have | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
been secured, but significant damage has been done." That, again, is from | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
the senior official looking after public accounts in this country. It | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
is a damning indictment about what has happened with regard to cuts in | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
social care. The impact on users and the knock-on consequences to the NHS | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
and the damage done there with the horrible term "bed-blocking" which I | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
don't like, elderly people who need to come out of their bed in hospital | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
into care in the community, not having that care because it simply | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
isn't available. At the other end, individuals who could with earlier | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
prevention have stopped getting to hospital in the first place, not | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
getting that earlier prevention either. I will come on to business | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
rates. I have sympathy with the Secretary of State, as I said on the | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
issue of business rates. Revaluation is simply about reallocating the | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
total payment to different businesses. It reflects the fact | :09:49. | :09:55. | |
that businesses - prosperity of different parts of the United | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
Kingdom have changed since the seven years of the last revaluation, | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
therefore those businesses in more prosperous areas where is there has | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
been a greater growth in prosperity will find their rates go up and | :10:06. | :10:08. | |
others will find their rates go down. I understand the point made. | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
It's not a way of raising extra money, it's reflecting the different | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
prosperity changes in differenth pa of the United Kingdom over the past | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
few years. I welcome what the Secretary of State said however | :10:22. | :10:24. | |
about looking again about how the money that's raised is balanced | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
between, say, a shop in the high street and a business on an out of | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
town retail park or between a retail business which sells direct to the | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
public and an off line business which has lower rates than the | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
direct provider of retail services. That will be very interesting to see | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
what the Government proposal is on that. Though I disagree with many | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
other items in the funding settlement, if the Select Committee | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
can help to look at that issue, how business rates reform could take | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
place to more properly reflect who should be paying what in the system | :11:01. | :11:03. | |
in the way that I've just indicated. I think we will be more than happy | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
to work with the Government and the Secretary | :11:07. | :11:13. | |
Thank you very much a Mr Deputy Speaker. In Somerset, local | :11:14. | :11:21. | |
government looks pretty small. In the 600 or so square miles of my | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
constituency there are six bus routes, one of them is under threat | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
at the moment. There is one train station, reduced library opening | :11:32. | :11:34. | |
hours, reduced in collections, limited amounts of road improvement | :11:35. | :11:41. | |
schemes, no major roof in the road improvement schemes. But have been | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
cut to youth clubs, is funding to support the elderly in their own | :11:46. | :11:52. | |
homes and communities. In return, what they have got is a higher | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
preset for flood protection, a higher preset for adult social care | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
and they have higher council taxes. That is no criticism of Somerset | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
County Council. They froze council tax for six years when household | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
incomes were typist, helping families across the county and they | :12:11. | :12:17. | |
were saddled with the reckless debts of the Lib Dem administration, none | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
of whom can be bothered to turn up for it debate today on local | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
government finance, presumably because they are too busy in the | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
other place turning their back on democracy instead of being here are | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
standing up for the communities they pretend to still represent. Those | :12:34. | :12:42. | |
deaths were ?350 million that they racked up when they were running | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
Somerset Council and that means that millions of pounds every year from | :12:48. | :12:50. | |
Somerset County Council's budget is being spent on paying the interest | :12:51. | :12:57. | |
on those Lib Dem debts. All of that is happening while, in rural areas, | :12:58. | :13:06. | |
petrol prices rise, as they are everywhere, but it impacts cost of | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
living more quickly. For many of my constituents of the gas grid, | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
heating oil prices have gone up, increasing the cost of living. They | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
paid the same for a mobile phone contracts as those in cities and yet | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
they get a fraction of the functionality. They paid the same | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
for broadband contracts as those in cities and yet they get a fraction | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
of the conductivity. House prices and rents are above the national | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
average and yet they get a fraction of the conductivity. House prices | :13:35. | :13:36. | |
and rents are above the national average and get their wages are | :13:37. | :13:39. | |
below the national average that the solution the government have come up | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
with to reducing local government funding and widening the gap between | :13:45. | :13:47. | |
urban and rural is to increase the council tax burden on those in rural | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
areas when, in so many areas, the cost of living is so much higher | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
than elsewhere. Last year, the unfair gap in funding between urban | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
and rural areas or to widen if it was not for the late intervention of | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
the then Secretary of State to put in an interim grant to the rural and | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
urban funding, whilst being cut, would become by the same across the | :14:12. | :14:18. | |
board. That interim grant did nothing to correct the trajectory of | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
those cuts, so that this year the gap between urban and rural widens | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
by just as much as it was always intended to do. That brings with it | :14:26. | :14:36. | |
no reflection of the cost of rural living, no reflection of the cost of | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
an ageing demographic and no reflection of limited ability to | :14:41. | :14:43. | |
grow our economy given the lack of conductivity or the size of the | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
working age population as a proportion of the population as a | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
whole. This year, Somerset County Council and the district councils in | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
our area have set their budgets and those painful decisions have been | :14:57. | :14:59. | |
taken, so for this year, it is all too late. But to put my honourable | :15:00. | :15:05. | |
friend for North Dorset who is no longer in his place, we have to be | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
aware, as he said, in this debate this time last year, we have to not | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
accept that in rural areas, public services have not just been cut to | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
the bone, they have had the marrow suck them as well. The disadvantage | :15:20. | :15:26. | |
for rural areas cannot continue. So, I warmly welcome the announcement of | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
the Secretary of State has made at the dispatch box today in that the | :15:31. | :15:33. | |
review he has committed to his ambitious in its scale and scope. | :15:34. | :15:39. | |
This is not about claiming that rural areas should be at an | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
advantage over rural, over urban, it is simply about making things fair. | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
It simply means understanding the needs of Republican rural areas and | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
it funding formula that allocates money accordingly. That review, will | :15:57. | :16:11. | |
be completed, but we cannot leave it until this debate in two year's time | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
to be clear on the result of that review. Council needed to know by | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
this debate mixture in January 2018 what the outcome of the review is, | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
so they can know that the jam tomorrow that we have been promising | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
to out these very difficult for years means that their retention of | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
business rates will be baseline at X and they can start planning | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
accordingly. Certainty is all that they have left to ask for now that | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
it is clear that there isn't going to be any more money in the near | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
future either. So must the government also said the mechanism | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
for the ongoing review of that baseline of business rates once the | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
retention has been introduced for the Secretary of State and his team | :16:59. | :17:01. | |
will agree that the potential for economic development will vary from | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
region to region, area to area. When you consider that in many of the | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
smaller and more hard pressed county council is the economic development | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
team, if there is one left, is one person, then the opportunities to | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
grow the economy are more limited and we must just have an eye to the | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
idea that once we have baseline in 2019-20, there might be some areas | :17:26. | :17:28. | |
you through entrepreneurial guide are able to grow the economy guide | :17:29. | :17:31. | |
are able to grow their economies more quickly than others, therefore | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
there will be a requirement to reset from time to time somebody remains a | :17:37. | :17:46. | |
cripple. Or, the Secretary of State could direct that the growth dealers | :17:47. | :17:49. | |
that are allocated better reflect the areas where skills, conductivity | :17:50. | :17:56. | |
or a of most difficult. In the south-west we like behind the rest | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
of the country on infrastructure spending, we are well behind in | :18:01. | :18:03. | |
conductivity and we are well behind on our skills base as well. Yet, | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
when the growth dealers were announced, they did for Devon and | :18:09. | :18:14. | |
Cornwall was particularly for. It would be great to see the growth | :18:15. | :18:18. | |
dealers reflecting the areas where the economic development challenge | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
is greatest, so this entrepreneurial idea, which I support in the full | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
attention of business rates, we start with the of opportunity, | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
because we have that conductivity, we have got the skills and the | :18:32. | :18:38. | |
infrastructure. I am sure he is aware that in the industrial | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
strategy White Paper, it does refer to this point about having regard in | :18:43. | :18:50. | |
future to per capita spending throughout the country, rather than | :18:51. | :18:53. | |
spending been concentrated in London and other regions which are getting | :18:54. | :18:56. | |
the lion password crusher the moment. I agree. -- lion's share. | :18:57. | :19:05. | |
There is something empowering about giving customers the opportunity the | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
masters of their own financial destiny. Say if he attract business | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
into your area, the rewards are yours to keep and spent on improved | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
public services for your communities. We have to be aware | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
that when we get that going, we need to have stacked the growth dealers | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
in favour of those areas with the challenge is greatest so they can | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
take things into their own hands and grow their economies as keenly as | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
the areas that already benefit from better infrastructure and skills. It | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
is sad that the Chief Secretary and the Chancellor have already left | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
their seats, because there was one of the plea that I was going to make | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
in order to alleviate the problems in Somerset in the short term. The | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
government has encouraged local authorities to do as they wish | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
mechanisms such as the new home owners with the community | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
infrastructure Levy. However, not too long ago, there was an aggregate | :20:02. | :20:08. | |
levy was designed so the minerals that were extracted in certain areas | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
would be taxed and 10% of that was supposed to stay locally in order to | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
fund local betterment and mitigation. That has drifted off | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
into the centre and is no longer benefiting the communities that | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
suffer from posting those industries. Why does that matter to | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
us in Somerset? In Somerset the chance raises ?24.7 million a year | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
from the aggregates Levy and the 10% that we have lost is worth ?2.47 | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
million. That is an awful a lot of bus routes, youth centres, community | :20:43. | :20:49. | |
support for the elderly, and offer of library hours, bin collections | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
and everything. I'd ask the Chancellor, put that in place and | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
offer the infrastructure Levy to communities he might find fracking | :20:59. | :21:01. | |
appealing as the offer of the new homes bonus as an incentive for | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
communities who might want more housing. Can we have back the 10% of | :21:05. | :21:11. | |
the aggregates levy that was the incentive for posting worrying, | :21:12. | :21:14. | |
because in my constituency, we are doing an awful lot to facilitate | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
national infrastructure projects. Lorries going to would include | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
number more than 300 a day as Hinckley has gone to 24-hour a day | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
building. The pylons to connect anchor leg to the National Grid will | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
move through my constituency shortly. All of that building work, | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
all of those lorries are having an impact on our roads. They are | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
causing problems and congestion and we are getting zero mitigation | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
whilst getting a very bad deal on local government finance. Public | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
services in Somerset are being squeezed right down, but the adult | :21:55. | :21:57. | |
social care performance will continue to grow and grow and grow. | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
We should not seek libraries, bus services, support groups, the | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
centres as being something that can be cut in order to just divert money | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
across toward adult social care. That is the force economy. It is the | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
bus routes, the day centres, the community support groups, the | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
libraries that actually allow people to lead independent lives, keeping | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
their own homes independent of the adult social care system and it is | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
only one isolate them and make them only that we end up with needing to | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
pay more and more and more adult social care. So, let us move as | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
quickly as we can to get the review that the Secretary of State has | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
promised to be done. It is a very welcome announcement for which I and | :22:46. | :22:48. | |
many colleagues are very grateful indeed. I have every confidence that | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
his review will make a huge difference to rural areas, perhaps | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
in terms of the money we get, but much more importantly, in terms of | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
the perception of our constituents that the system is stacked against | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
them, that they get a fair crack of the government cash. I urge the | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
Secretary of State, and I know he wants to be bold in the scope and | :23:14. | :23:16. | |
scale of the review that he embarks on, but I urge him to do it urgently | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
and to get it done this year so that next year when we have this debate | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
with have offered council is much more certainty for what business | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
rate retention looks like and what the advantage of that to them will | :23:30. | :23:38. | |
be. St Helens Council, which is part of my constituency, and one where I | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
was a councillor for 38 years, so I know a little bit of local | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
government, is one of the fixed grant settlements for four years. It | :23:48. | :23:53. | |
is subjected to the efficiency plan and that being accepted by the DC | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
LG. That will be a great ask for sedans because it is an efficient | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
council which is well run and it manages its finances well. They have | :24:02. | :24:08. | |
a ten year grant reductions of ?90 million by 2020, 70 5% reduction in | :24:09. | :24:17. | |
grant support, ?511 per person. St Helens Council and the commissioning | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
group have a strong joint working relationship. It is St Helens who | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
were awarded the first partnership and it was the first to have a | :24:26. | :24:28. | |
public and private sector partnership. We have strong working | :24:29. | :24:31. | |
relationships and this has enabled joint agreed priorities for the use | :24:32. | :24:38. | |
of the better care fund and social care and health. It is indeed the | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
leader in integrated adult social care. It is with some pride that I | :24:43. | :24:49. | |
asked a former hospital 's minister to visit, but it was a recent | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
hospital Minister who took up the visit and he was amazed at what he | :24:55. | :25:05. | |
saw there. Quite frankly,, St Helens Hospital trust has just one a tender | :25:06. | :25:14. | |
for providing district nursing, treatment rooms, adult social care, | :25:15. | :25:21. | |
and cricket teams and that will lead to even more integration. | :25:22. | :25:28. | |
We are commissioning medicine in care homes. That will have 30 pilot | :25:29. | :25:36. | |
tele-medicine units in homes so the elderly will not need to go to an | :25:37. | :25:43. | |
Accident Emergency, 24/7 access to a very senior nurse that will be | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
able to help and keep them in the care homes. Many of the older people | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
that turn up at Accident Emergency are from residential homes and care | :25:54. | :25:56. | |
homes. They haven't got nursing care. If | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
they take serious off they go to Accident Emergency during the | :26:00. | :26:02. | |
night. They are admitted. That would cut that down. A response car which | :26:03. | :26:10. | |
has been piloted in December. It worked over the Christmas period. | :26:11. | :26:21. | |
This meant that 40% less elderly people went into hospital because | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
they had a fall. They didn't go to A, the patients were able to | :26:26. | :26:31. | |
access service more rapidly. A handyman service, faulty equipment | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
and clinical nurse support within two hours in their own homes, and | :26:35. | :26:44. | |
they stayed there. The integrated access social care, superb. | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
Resources centres where they go, not fit to stay at home, not bad enough | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
to go into hospital, places they can go for a few days while the family | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
is away. St Helens council and the commissioning group and the hospital | :27:00. | :27:02. | |
work well together, but it isn't all the answer. We are still beds short | :27:03. | :27:09. | |
in the hospital. Still beds short. We still haven't got enough money | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
for social care, even though we are getting just under ?1 million from | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
the cut in the new homes bonus.s all that is very useful, but it isn't | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
the answer to everything, they still continue to work together. Local | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
government is the most efficient part of government and it's unfair | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
that it's taking the hardest burden. It's the most efficiency. Despite | :27:34. | :27:42. | |
everything that is thrown at them they are resilient we have committed | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
workforces. It's shameful how they are abused, quite frankly. Even with | :27:47. | :27:53. | |
all that joint working together and the integrated care elderly people | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
are languishing in Whiston Hospital am some people have to go into | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
hospital at the end because they are really, really poorly. They are | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
waiting to go into a care home, residential home or care home, they | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
come along and assess up to five people for one place in their home. | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
It's inevitable that they will choose the least complex cased, and | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
the reason they do it is because the complex cases take a lot more | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
staffing and they haven't got the staffing. They haven't got the | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
staffing. My colleague here touched on it. Yes, the living wage, we do | :28:29. | :28:34. | |
want it, but the money has not gone into the homes they haven't got the | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
staffing the most complex cases are left languishing in beds. Some years | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
ago we did a survey of all our elderly people, anybody from 55, | :28:45. | :28:50. | |
what they wanted in their old age, did they want residential homes, did | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
they want to stay at home? Every single one in their homes said they | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
wanted to stay at home. They didn't want to go back there now, they were | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
settled. They wanted to stay at home, but they didn't have the | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
support they needed. We set off a programme of funding the homes, but | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
getting the types of homes and providing the care to keepcoo our | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
older people at home. We did that successfully. Sadly, the homes went, | :29:14. | :29:21. | |
we have dozens of homes because we are all living much older with much | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
more complex needs. So this problem is a problem of funding, it's not | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
going to go away. Each one of us in here can look forward to much longer | :29:32. | :29:37. | |
life and we will have complex needs. Let's make sure that the services | :29:38. | :29:44. | |
are there that's needed. The council works well together and efficient | :29:45. | :29:51. | |
care and everything like that. I followed the member, it was a | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
pleasure to listen to him. I was listening to what was going in my | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
own area where I live because every service is being ut cut. Every | :30:03. | :30:05. | |
single service. We have been proud to build them services. All local | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
government is provide of the services they build, they are not | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
prif lousily they are there because the public wanted and what they | :30:14. | :30:16. | |
appreciated. Every single one of them are being looked at. I'm sorry | :30:17. | :30:24. | |
to say that every care package will be relooked at, revisited again | :30:25. | :30:27. | |
because funding will not be there in the future. We had a director in | :30:28. | :30:31. | |
Liverpool, a neighbouring authority, a Merseyside authority, who is | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
resigning. He is resigning because he said there is simply not the fund | :30:36. | :30:41. | |
there to deliver the services. Every single director around the area | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
where I come from is saying, very sadly, we are coming to the time | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
when be we will be feeding, getting people out of bed, washing and | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
toileting. This is not what our edlederly people deserve. They | :30:56. | :31:03. | |
deserve dignity, they have given much to society -- elderly. Our | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
society should be looking after its elderly. | :31:08. | :31:10. | |
I plead with you. I listened with you carefully. I listened very | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
carefully I do think you are listening and do your best. Please | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
do your best. It's about keeping people happy. If they are happy they | :31:20. | :31:25. | |
stay healthy longer. Keeping the children happy, youth services | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
going, refuge collection, park Rangers going, golf courses going. | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
It's a crying shame that all these facilities are going. We say, keep | :31:34. | :31:41. | |
them happy, keep energetic and happy #57bd all the services we are | :31:42. | :31:47. | |
providing are going. Thank you. It's a pleasure to follow the member. I | :31:48. | :31:54. | |
would like to echo the words of the member for her praise for her | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
councillors and the work they do. I want to pay credit to the parish | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
councillors who are working hard to cover the gaps left by Cornwall | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
Council in my neck of the woods as they retreat from delivering | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
services in our rural areas. The parish councillors are doing jobs | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
now they never expected to be doing. They are doing a fantastic job and | :32:15. | :32:17. | |
we need to do what we can to support them. I'm really looking forward to | :32:18. | :32:24. | |
the review of funding allocation for local governments. However, I want | :32:25. | :32:32. | |
to particularly refer to the council today and the pressure they are | :32:33. | :32:43. | |
under. I'm privileged as member of parliament, there are 2,200 people | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
there, it's an incredible unique environment. The council is | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
standalone, single-tier unitary authority. There's no means of | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
devolving powers to local parishes. The responsibilities of the council | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
are exes sentencive. I'm visiting the islands this Friday and Saturday | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
and it's not an exaggeration to say that whilst I'm there almost | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
everything I sea see, touch or use will be the responsibility of the | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
council. They are in charge of public safety they operate the | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
airport, the care home, maintain the island's swimming pool and leisure | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
facilities. They are the only local authority in England and Wales that | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
also act as a water authority with the council providing water to | :33:31. | :33:38. | |
around 1,070 homes on St Mary's as well as the sewage infrastructure. | :33:39. | :33:41. | |
It's a huge undertaking they are the lasts in England and Wales to do so. | :33:42. | :33:49. | |
The ability of the council to fulfil these responsibilities is made | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
difficult by the fact they are limited with next to no public | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
assets that can be used to raise council revenue. Most of the lands | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
on the island are owned by the Duchy. House building is a | :34:03. | :34:08. | |
particular challenge. We proposed allocation fails to take into | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
account the uniqueness of this unity authority. The provisional new homes | :34:13. | :34:19. | |
bonus has been reduced by 22,200. The allocation of the new adult | :34:20. | :34:25. | |
social care ropt 12,700 a reduction. Nearly 10,000. The allocation of the | :34:26. | :34:33. | |
better care fund is zero. Residents have high needs but low council tax | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
base. This funding decision does not appear to be fair or recognise the | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
specific needs of the remote island community. Finally, the allocation | :34:43. | :34:50. | |
for rural services delivery grant is zero despite assurances in 2016, you | :34:51. | :34:53. | |
will be pleased to know, Secretary of State, before your time, by civil | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
servants they would closely at this issue. You can't get a more rural | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
area, but they get no delivery grant whatsoever. During my visit this | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
week I will be discussing the challenges being faced in terms of | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
transport, adult social care, housing and marine safety. Ever | :35:15. | :35:17. | |
since I was elected in 2015 I have been working with the council and | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
with ministers who have been keen to help and support us to try and ease | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
some of these pressures. Particularly the pressure on the | :35:26. | :35:28. | |
council finances. However this task is made more difficult by the fact | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
that the current allocation of funding does not reflect the | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
specific challenges and costs being faced. There is a risk of social, to | :35:37. | :35:42. | |
social and leisure immune 'tis on the island. There arer foos, I'm | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
kweting emails, this eke, that their care home will no longer be able to | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
stay open. That is partly to do with funds and the difficulties of | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
attracting the staff they need because of a lack of housing and the | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
lack of ability to build housing. Members of the aisle of silly | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
council are working hard to identify how they can save money to be a much | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
leaner than they have been over the years. They have worked to be laner | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
and more efficient council. They have got as lean as they can and yet | :36:13. | :36:18. | |
the pressure is for them to make further savings remain viable and | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
ensure that the council delivers a sustainable future for the islands. | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
The funding proposal places increased pressure on a small | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
council with huge responsibilities and threatens essential public | :36:31. | :36:33. | |
services and leaves the need for reconsideration under deniable. As I | :36:34. | :36:40. | |
say, the review of council funding is certainly needed in terms of the | :36:41. | :36:47. | |
Isles of Scilly. I want to move on to the mainland of my constituency | :36:48. | :36:50. | |
and business rates. The truth is, many of the businesses in Cornwall | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
are small businesses and many in my constituency are being taken out of | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
business rates altogether. That is loungely welcomed. It's a fantastic | :36:59. | :37:01. | |
piece of work this Government is achieving. However, I've got this | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
rather peculiar situation in the town of St Ives, 8,000 people in the | :37:08. | :37:13. | |
whole of my constituency, the area covers about 8,000 people, their | :37:14. | :37:17. | |
independent stores are seeing increases of sometimes 62% even well | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
over 100% on their business rates this April. In fact, across the | :37:22. | :37:27. | |
independent businesses in the town of St Ives they are seeing an | :37:28. | :37:33. | |
increase of 24% increase. This is particularly difficult. I listened | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
to the chief Secretary of State to the Treasury on Radio 4 this weekend | :37:39. | :37:44. | |
talking about the prosperity of the Isles of - sorry, St Ives. There are | :37:45. | :37:50. | |
big business that are prosperous. They can cope can difficult times, | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
particularly during winter months where there is nobody around. An | :37:55. | :37:57. | |
independent business actually relies on a few months in the summer where | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
they make their business and yet the business rate is required of them | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
however successful or not they are all year round. Certainly. I thank | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
my honourable friend very much for giving way. There are definitely | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
winners and losers in the business weight review, but there are many | :38:14. | :38:20. | |
farm cottages, farm tourism businesses riding stables and others | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
being valued hugely, much greater value, they are seeing their rates | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
go up 60%, 80%, it's too much for these businesses. | :38:30. | :38:32. | |
We need to see them helped in some way by the Government. That's | :38:33. | :38:39. | |
absolutely the case. In total, 32 independent businesses have | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
contacted me just from the St Ives town alone. One business which will | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
be seeing their business rate go from ?2,000 to ?3,000 a week. We are | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
talking about a small high street business where already the charges | :38:54. | :38:56. | |
they face are considerable by operating in that town. Businesses | :38:57. | :39:02. | |
are saying there is no way they are viable and they can continue. In | :39:03. | :39:09. | |
Penzance our supermarkets are seeing all of the supermarkets are seeing a | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
drop of 15% in business rates we have high street businesses going up | :39:15. | :39:17. | |
by 10%. I cannot believe that was ever the intention of a Conservative | :39:18. | :39:19. | |
Government. I would very much like to see that | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
unintended consequence reversed. I think I've said all I need to say. | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
Can I say he speaks with such passion and knowledge on behalf of | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
Cornwall, as do all of his colleagues on this side of the | :39:35. | :39:37. | |
House. Does he share my suspicion that the appearance of a Lib Dem | :39:38. | :39:40. | |
might reflect there are was significant anger in Cornwall they | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
couldn't find the time to be here for the first hour-and-a-half of the | :39:44. | :39:45. | |
debate? My friend and member from Newquay | :39:46. | :40:02. | |
refers to the fact that for many, many years the Liberal Democrats | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
talked and talked about the fairer funding, the truth is, it's since we | :40:06. | :40:11. | |
all got elected in Cornwall in 2015 we have seen progress in that area. | :40:12. | :40:14. | |
I'm absolutely privileged to say that if you want things to happen, | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
you need to get people that can make - Certainly. | :40:20. | :40:26. | |
The temptation was too great. Does he share my concern that what needs | :40:27. | :40:36. | |
to be happening between now and 2020, rural counties are losing out | :40:37. | :40:50. | |
on the proportion of income coming from council tax banding. Is he is | :40:51. | :40:58. | |
concerned about the impact on rural areas as I am? You are still very | :40:59. | :41:10. | |
welcome. If we can get the funding better for the police, the health | :41:11. | :41:18. | |
service and everything. That would be a significant result for members | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
of Parliament in the south west of the country. For many years, this | :41:24. | :41:27. | |
has been unattainable. I want to bring my piece to the end by looking | :41:28. | :41:42. | |
at the Scilly Isles. It is unfair that people are having to move off | :41:43. | :41:45. | |
the islands to have residential care. The high street shops are the | :41:46. | :41:56. | |
backbone of the local economy and the not benefiting from these new | :41:57. | :42:04. | |
business rate rearrangement. The RV unintended victims of this new | :42:05. | :42:15. | |
arrangement. Can I tour attention to my interests. I also serve as a | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
councillor in Bradford. I will be brief. The Deputy speaker very | :42:21. | :42:30. | |
kindly added my name to the list. I am very grateful. I will keep my | :42:31. | :42:41. | |
comments in relation to the revenue support. Like my honourable friend | :42:42. | :42:49. | |
from Sheffield said earlier. I am disappointed that the secretary of | :42:50. | :42:58. | |
state has not come back to the house to the to discuss these proposals, | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
even after the consultation in terms of the advancement of any further | :43:03. | :43:08. | |
funding for local authorities who are struggling. I want to make | :43:09. | :43:17. | |
comment on the three points which the secretary of state and others | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
have brought up to date. The first is the business rates. I think it is | :43:24. | :43:32. | |
largely welcome across the house, listening to various views from all | :43:33. | :43:35. | |
sides, that there did need to be a review of business rates and it | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
cannot be right that we have a high-street shop sometimes paying | :43:41. | :43:54. | |
more than a large business. I do hope the review for incorporate an | :43:55. | :44:06. | |
element of factors including the provision and other things which | :44:07. | :44:14. | |
would affect some communities whether to list can be affected. In | :44:15. | :44:20. | |
terms of the social Kier comments, the only one I wouldn't want to make | :44:21. | :44:27. | |
is that the precept that members have referred to in the most | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
deprived communities. That precept will not go towards addressing that | :44:33. | :44:41. | |
and, sadly, like others, there is nothing a today that convinces me | :44:42. | :44:43. | |
that the government has got the social Kier budget under control. | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
This is a crisis. We have got 1.2 million elderly | :44:48. | :45:05. | |
people living without the care varied choir. Many other facilities | :45:06. | :45:12. | |
have closed. We'll be honourable friend sure my concern that the cuts | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
in local authority funding are undermining the very things which | :45:19. | :45:19. | |
make our communities strong? In my make our communities strong? In | :45:20. | :45:27. | |
own local authority, those cuts are own local authority, those cuts are | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
having a devastating effect. The final point, the Secretary of State | :45:33. | :45:41. | |
talked about the fear funding formula. I do accept the points from | :45:42. | :45:52. | |
members who have said that rural and urban areas have to be looked at | :45:53. | :46:01. | |
separately. There needs to be a fear funding formula looking at all | :46:02. | :46:07. | |
aspects. I will say, however, if you look at the week the cuts have been | :46:08. | :46:13. | |
distributed, nine out of ten of the most deprived councils and the | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
country received above-average cuts, that is not fair. I would dodge and | :46:19. | :46:29. | |
that any funding formula has to be something which is opposite in | :46:30. | :46:32. | |
parallel to the way these government cuts to local government have been | :46:33. | :46:38. | |
administered, because the rear administered in a completely unfair | :46:39. | :46:43. | |
fashion. The affected the poorest households with the highest levels | :46:44. | :46:54. | |
of deprivation. I think we have had the harshest end of that. In my own | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
local authority, I am disappointed we have not come back here today. | :46:59. | :47:06. | |
These have been made by many councils. The Secretary of State is | :47:07. | :47:14. | |
being proactive to going out to meet council leaders. But part of that is | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
to come back and listen to the serious concerns which local | :47:20. | :47:27. | |
authorities have. My local authority said the figures for this year, it | :47:28. | :47:33. | |
is then by. It is much higher if you look at it from 2010. We are down to | :47:34. | :47:48. | |
the born in Bradford Council. Councillors from all sides will have | :47:49. | :47:52. | |
to make some very tough decisions. There are services which absolutely | :47:53. | :48:00. | |
need protecting but many other services, including libraries and | :48:01. | :48:08. | |
youth facilities, social care and other services will be up for | :48:09. | :48:13. | |
discussion tomorrow. Maybe they cannot give the same level of | :48:14. | :48:17. | |
service which they would like to provide. I would urge the Secretary | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
of State again to listen to the people. Please go and visit these | :48:22. | :48:26. | |
councils. Please meet them in Bradford. He still has the time to | :48:27. | :48:38. | |
look again at the equitable nature of this. Look at those authorities | :48:39. | :48:45. | |
which are in serious trouble. The reality of the situation is that | :48:46. | :48:51. | |
there are a good percentage of local authorities around this country that | :48:52. | :48:59. | |
perhaps will not even make it as far as 2020. That is the stark reality | :49:00. | :49:05. | |
of where we are. The services they provide, the funding will not be | :49:06. | :49:19. | |
adequately available. Can I start by welcoming the statement by the | :49:20. | :49:21. | |
Secretary of State, which I thought was very constructive. | :49:22. | :49:33. | |
My constituency of Bromley is very keen to go and we welcome the | :49:34. | :49:48. | |
changes in business rates, which will help my constituency galore. I | :49:49. | :49:54. | |
think this will help in formal planning, all longer term planning. | :49:55. | :50:05. | |
business rates retention. We were business rates retention. We were | :50:06. | :50:11. | |
able to start on that four years ago. I am delighted to see my | :50:12. | :50:20. | |
successor ticking through the final bit of that legislation at the | :50:21. | :50:24. | |
moment. It is an important evolutionary step. Hopefully it will | :50:25. | :50:32. | |
not be the end of the evolutionary steps for local government finance. | :50:33. | :50:44. | |
As more local authorities to come depended not just on the central | :50:45. | :50:47. | |
government but on creating their own resources. We could have the suite | :50:48. | :50:54. | |
of revenue raising powers. Perhaps as we go forward, we should make you | :50:55. | :51:01. | |
look at other factors which could be localised in a cost effective way. | :51:02. | :51:09. | |
The likes of land tax, for example. The fact that he is keen to look at | :51:10. | :51:18. | |
that is a step forward. A cross-party commission established | :51:19. | :51:31. | |
has put forward a number of very has put forward a number of very | :51:32. | :51:34. | |
sensible suggestions. It was established by the former Mayor of | :51:35. | :51:46. | |
London. That is welcome. The constraint that the government has | :51:47. | :51:51. | |
inherited her well-known. We are seeing a number of grants rolled | :51:52. | :51:57. | |
into business retention. I think that makes sense. I am glad that the | :51:58. | :52:08. | |
devolution attendance allowance funding is still in place. With | :52:09. | :52:18. | |
constituencies like my own, my constituency itself has the highest | :52:19. | :52:24. | |
number of pensioners in the London area. These pressures are important. | :52:25. | :52:31. | |
I hope there were also be more work to join up health spending. I would | :52:32. | :52:40. | |
see, I hope you speak to your colleague, the Secretary of State | :52:41. | :52:44. | |
for Health. All too often I have phoned in my own district, it is not | :52:45. | :52:51. | |
working on the ground as one would wish. The bitter Kier funds was a | :52:52. | :53:08. | |
good initiative. Better care Fund. It is all part of the way the hilt | :53:09. | :53:16. | |
services working. There is a lack of joined up thinking. Would he agree | :53:17. | :53:32. | |
with me that there is a duty for the local authorities to cooperate with | :53:33. | :53:38. | |
the social service providers? It is immensely helpful. I hope he will | :53:39. | :53:49. | |
take that away to other Cabinet colleagues. Unfortunately, in my own | :53:50. | :53:57. | |
experience, I was part of the strategic health authority in London | :53:58. | :54:04. | |
before coming into this house. It tends to look up words, rather than | :54:05. | :54:13. | |
imports in the community. It should be working within the way the local | :54:14. | :54:21. | |
authorities had planned it. But for that, we need to make sure that | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
people are not just been listen to within their own department. Would | :54:26. | :54:34. | |
he agree that part of the picture is the ability for local government to | :54:35. | :54:38. | |
help finance the infrastructure that will allow that joined up working | :54:39. | :54:43. | |
between the health service and local communities? If they cannot talk to | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
each other because of the inactivity of the platforms, you cannot expect | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
things to get better. That is right, the connectivity | :54:53. | :55:06. | |
platforms is important. Many of us have come across instances where a | :55:07. | :55:10. | |
CCGs have good medical people involved but they are not doing what | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
they signed up to do which is keen to be managers and budget holders | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
which is the way people local authority are used to doing. We have | :55:20. | :55:23. | |
a situation where the local authority is willing to engage but | :55:24. | :55:29. | |
the CCG does not have as great a capacity in terms of its | :55:30. | :55:36. | |
infrastructure and its management systems which often could be hosted | :55:37. | :55:38. | |
by the local authority on a collaborative basis. But an | :55:39. | :55:41. | |
unwillingness because of their culture within the health service, | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
that bottom-up culture, to engage. I think it is important we have a | :55:47. | :55:50. | |
political steer from the Department of Health to deal with that. I will | :55:51. | :55:56. | |
give way. I thank the honourable member for giving way. I totally | :55:57. | :56:00. | |
agree with the point he's giving about the different cultures in the | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
NHS and local government. Does he share my view that we should be | :56:05. | :56:09. | |
aiming for a unified health and care commission in a locality with | :56:10. | :56:13. | |
Democratic accountability through the local authority rather than | :56:14. | :56:15. | |
through this ridiculous approach that we have at the moment? He is | :56:16. | :56:23. | |
absolutely right. We experienced it when we weren't members of the group | :56:24. | :56:28. | |
at the same time. It needs a steer from the top to be able to do that. | :56:29. | :56:36. | |
I will move the fair funding review. I welcome that. It is necessary to | :56:37. | :56:41. | |
be Boldon comprehensive in the in the Read the review is. When I was | :56:42. | :56:48. | |
in the local government, the regression analysis had to be gone | :56:49. | :56:52. | |
through in the formula and we have knocked it down to about 400, it is | :56:53. | :56:59. | |
not comprehensive. It is extremely a peak and produces consequences which | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
are difficult to reconcile with what local government sees on the ground | :57:04. | :57:09. | |
at the time. One thing should be taken into account, I understand | :57:10. | :57:17. | |
needs versus resource matrix but equally, it has proven impossible to | :57:18. | :57:19. | |
build into the system something which gives a proper weighting to | :57:20. | :57:25. | |
historically efficient authorities. You have a situation where if local | :57:26. | :57:29. | |
authorities have historically been efficient and running services well | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
at low cost, they get no credit for that. They tend to be penalised. I | :57:34. | :57:40. | |
say that because Bromley, a comparatively low tax rate authority | :57:41. | :57:45. | |
in London, is also the lowest in terms of cost per head, unit costs | :57:46. | :57:50. | |
of its service delivery but the system has never taken account of | :57:51. | :57:54. | |
that. We to incentivise that within the system. I will give way. I must | :57:55. | :58:01. | |
press on. To pick up on his point, he said earlier that his local | :58:02. | :58:09. | |
authority had the highest percentage... Yet total spending | :58:10. | :58:15. | |
power is ?75 a head. The total spending power for Camden is 1100 at | :58:16. | :58:22. | |
head, how can that yet? It cannot. Although we are broken down some of | :58:23. | :58:29. | |
the artificiality of barriers, the idea that people thought there was a | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
major distinction between costs in and outer London has changed. Many | :58:35. | :58:39. | |
of the outer boroughs have much more in common with the inner London | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
boroughs. On the business rates, I welcome what was said about the | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
review and I welcome what he has said in terms of transition release. | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
That is very important. The Secretary of State has hit on key | :58:54. | :58:59. | |
areas in regions like mine, I suggest in particular we look at | :59:00. | :59:06. | |
putting something on the CPI index. We need in the long term to look at | :59:07. | :59:10. | |
how we capture businesses which do not have a large physical footfall, | :59:11. | :59:16. | |
the online competitors and so on to deal with the issue of out-of-town | :59:17. | :59:21. | |
supermarkets which I have been more favourably treated man shops because | :59:22. | :59:26. | |
land values come into the equation. Perhaps we could move from the | :59:27. | :59:31. | |
sledging we have at the moment on the transitional relief, onto a | :59:32. | :59:38. | |
sliding scale. I put for those as a constructive suggestion which could | :59:39. | :59:46. | |
be taken forward. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Speaker, I am delighted to | :59:47. | :59:53. | |
contribute to this important debate. I welcome this single representative | :59:54. | :59:57. | |
from the Liberal Democrats, leaked to the party. It is good to have | :59:58. | :00:06. | |
them here. That is no doubt about it for me, local government is clearly | :00:07. | :00:13. | |
at the front line of delivering services to the residents of our | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
country. I know that from my own time as a local councillor but also | :00:18. | :00:23. | |
from the sheer weight of correspondence I get through my | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
office raising concerns about things which are actually delivered by a | :00:28. | :00:33. | |
local council, whether picking up dog mess, cutting the grass or | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
filling potholes or adult social care and things like that. There is | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
no doubt that we value local government and we see it as an | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
essential part of delivering the services to our country. It is also | :00:47. | :00:53. | |
clearly correct that local government is going under a period | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
of dramatic reform. It is right that we do that, we need to bring it into | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
the modern age and make sure we drive out inefficiencies and waste | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
that can often be present within local government and make sure it is | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
set for a purpose and well-run as it could possibly be. I will give way. | :01:12. | :01:18. | |
I appreciate the welcome that he gave me. I wonder if he would agree | :01:19. | :01:27. | |
with the rural services network that believes that the impact of the | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
changes for a predominately rural councils compared to urban councils | :01:33. | :01:38. | |
is in their words, not only discriminatory but also | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
unsustainable for rural authorities. This will have a pernicious effect | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
on councils like Canada Gate but also my county of Norfolk? He has | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
possibly been reading the notes of my speech because that was exactly | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
going to be my main point. -- like Cornwall. I welcome broadly the | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
changes that the department is bringing forward in terms of the way | :02:04. | :02:08. | |
local government is financed and making it more directly accountable | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
for raising and spending its own finance and far less dependable on | :02:12. | :02:19. | |
local -- on central government. I also welcome the renewed interest in | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
the rural fair share campaign to address the imbalance which has | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
existed for too long in the level of funding that rural councils have | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
received as opposed to predominantly urban councils. Local government | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
spending... I will not take any more interventions because time is short. | :02:39. | :02:47. | |
Local government spending still contributes a very large part of | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
central government spending. It is absolutely understandable that we | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
have had to make savings and cut the amount of money whilst we have been | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
dealing with the legacy of the huge record deficit we inherited from the | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
previous Labour government. We have had to find those savings across | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
government and that is included local government so that is the | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
context we have to set to the situation we find yourself then. But | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
I absolutely welcome the Minister's confirmation today that funding for | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
rural councils, a fair funding formula, based on the cost of | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
delivery and need is going to be brought forward. My concern is about | :03:31. | :03:32. | |
the timing of bringing that review forward. I remember clearly been | :03:33. | :03:38. | |
stood here last year at this debate and at the very last minute, the | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
Secretary of State came forward with some transitional funding to ease | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
the huge cuts that were going to be brought upon the rural councils to | :03:49. | :03:56. | |
make sure that the gap between the funding between rural and urban | :03:57. | :04:02. | |
councils was not further extended. On that basis, I supported the | :04:03. | :04:05. | |
government position last year with the promise that this would be | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
looked at. It is very disappointing that we are here again 12 months | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
later and so little progress has been made in addressing this issue. | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
I welcome the fact that is still some transitional funding available | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
for this year but the fact this will run out next year. Next year there | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
will be nothing to ease the impact on the rural councils and the | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
widening of that gap so it is absolutely urgent we bring forward | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
this review and address this issue. The point I made to the Secretary of | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
State earlier, if we do not deal with it now, the problem will be | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
that this unfairness and this lack of funding for rural councils will | :04:44. | :04:50. | |
be fixed into the system once we go to 100% of business rates so it is | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
important it is brought forward. We can no longer live with this | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
approach to this, as we see in Cornwall. Sometime in an | :05:00. | :05:08. | |
undetermined point in the future. It feels like that has been the | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
approach when it comes to this fair funding review. We need to get on | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
with it and stop talking about it and deliver as a matter of urgency. | :05:15. | :05:23. | |
I happy to say, based on last year's funding agreement being a mac year | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
agreement and the majority of councils have now set their council | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
tax, I will be supporting this motion. -- four year agreement. I am | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
disappointed at the lack of progress which has been made. I do so on the | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
basis that I take the Minister and the Secretary of State at their | :05:46. | :05:48. | |
word, these issues will be addressed. I will continue to make | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
the case as strongly as I can and work with colleagues as strongly as | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
I can but this unfairness is addressed and we see rural councils | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
much more fairly blundered into the future. -- more fairly funded. I | :06:00. | :06:10. | |
will keep my comments brief, Mr Speaker. I have been told to by the | :06:11. | :06:17. | |
whips and the Deputy Speaker. My comments are simple. I think the | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
Secretary of State has a lot on his plate at the moment. He has sat on a | :06:23. | :06:30. | |
golden opportunity, once in a Parliamentary generational | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
opportunity to fix two fundamental problems in the system. One is the | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
fairness of the rate system and the other one is a fairer funding for | :06:38. | :06:43. | |
local authorities. In terms of the rates, I must refer members to my | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
member's interest, we do have a lot of shops around the UK. They are | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
currently subject to the rating system. If we change to what I | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
believe would be a fair system, it would be a sales tax. It would be a | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
much fairer system in my view. My principal comments relate to fairer | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
funding in terms of how local authorities are funded. We have | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
heard many comments from honourable members about how this affects rural | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
regions, metropolitan areas but if you look at the system, the Shadow | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
minister knows what I will see, the biggest in equity by far is that we | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
Londoners treated versus the rest of the country. That is the reality. -- | :07:31. | :07:39. | |
London is treated. I am grateful to Leicestershire County Council, I | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
urge you to download this report. They looked at the collapse of the | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
district council and county council is being collapsed into one | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
resource, divided by the number of people in those particular areas. It | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
came out with their spending power per local authority. In reality, | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
nine out of ten local authorities with the highest spending power is | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
adding London but nine out of ten local authorities with the lowest | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
council tax are also in London. It is simply not fair. It would be | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
appropriate as long as there were keen drivers in there but to give | :08:17. | :08:24. | |
you a simple example, Harrell. Harrell has ?80 a year spending | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
power more than North Yorkshire. Yet it has a richer population and a | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
younger population. -- Harrell. How can that be right? I have been told | :08:34. | :08:40. | |
not to take any interventions. Very briefly. Would he also concur that | :08:41. | :08:48. | |
looking through those figures that those rural areas often have poor | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
education, police and health funding as well so we get hit on all sides? | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
She moves on to the second point of my remarks. 13 London boroughs this | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
year either froze or lowered their council tax, that is not possible in | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
areas like North Yorkshire. This is not a plug purely for the rural | :09:12. | :09:19. | |
position. The lowest spending local authorities, you have your work, | :09:20. | :09:28. | |
Trafford, Leeds per person per head and yet you have Westminster at 1100 | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
pence per head. This simply cannot be right. -- ?1100. This is because | :09:34. | :09:42. | |
the system is based on what has happened before. As Einstein said, | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
we cannot solve the problems of today with the same thinking is | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
reused when we created them. We created these problems. The simple | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
solution going forward must be that we used cost drivers. -- we use cost | :09:59. | :10:06. | |
drivers. This is made and the cost of delivery, it is as simple as | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
that. The more simple the formula and the more understandable, the | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
more people will buy into the system. The fair funding review. | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
Commissioned by the Secretary of State is crucial to this. I support | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
that approach but it does need to be a blank canvas and a new approach to | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
this problem. The opportunity that exists, the clear opportunity that | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
exists is that there is more money going into the system whatever the | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
opposition says. There is an ?11 billion by 2020 because of the | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
retention of business rates, clearly there has to be quid pro quo for | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
that but ultimately there is more money going into the system. This is | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
the opportunity I believe exists, Mr Speaker. It is said and rising tide | :10:53. | :11:00. | |
will lift all votes. It is very difficult to rebalance the system | :11:01. | :11:03. | |
when there is no new money going in but that is more money going in, | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
spending rounds are tight and the Secretary of State will have to be | :11:09. | :11:10. | |
careful where that money is going to make sure he gets bang for his buck. | :11:11. | :11:17. | |
But this opportunity, if we set under the right path, we can make a | :11:18. | :11:24. | |
system that is fundamental -- fundamentally unfair, into a system | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
in the future that will be fair and equitable and delivered via | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
resources to my local authorities and the local authorities and the | :11:33. | :11:39. | |
If I may say, it is a pleasure to see you in the cheer and long may | :11:40. | :11:50. | |
that continue. It has been a very interesting debate. It is also a | :11:51. | :12:03. | |
reflection from the provisional statement that we need to provide | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
the funding for the councils to provide the sort of services they | :12:08. | :12:15. | |
require. You have to wonder, if when hundreds of local authorities | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
respond and members of parliament make representation on their behalf, | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
there is no new money. We talked about the crisis in social care. We | :12:26. | :12:34. | |
talked about the loss of libraries and day centres. There is no new | :12:35. | :12:43. | |
money. We have been through ten sessions of the local government | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
Finance Bill. I am sure the member Wilshire and regulate of what we | :12:50. | :12:57. | |
have cleaned from the sessions. It has been an education. We have | :12:58. | :13:04. | |
talked a lot. It has been constructive at times. There has | :13:05. | :13:14. | |
been a lot of chatter from the naughty classmates at the back. But | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
very little to help as a longest journey to resolving this. I did | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
think I should be a bit more charitable when I came in. I did | :13:25. | :13:34. | |
find it enjoyable. I had an uncharitable view of the Secretary | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
of State because I thought he was in a position he did not really enjoy. | :13:39. | :13:45. | |
That came out a bit today in a different weave when he talked about | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
business. That is we his heart is. He kills about business and | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
enterprise. When talking about business rates I thought he was very | :13:57. | :14:04. | |
decisive, seeing something had to be done about it. Not so decisive when | :14:05. | :14:11. | |
it came to social care, the 1.2 million people who need more support | :14:12. | :14:17. | |
and do not get it. No sulking talking about people in hospital | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
desperate to get home but the support structure not been clear for | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
them. That is the crux of the job for the Secretary of State. He is | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
doing a job he does not want to do. He is maybe greeting for the | :14:33. | :14:35. | |
opportunities which lie ahead. But that is a cost to their attitude | :14:36. | :14:43. | |
which the Minister has to deal with. We are hoping when we hear further | :14:44. | :14:51. | |
details of the financial settlement that the will be new money. The | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
worry is that the money will not be used for social care, but focused on | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
the business rates scheme. It is not the business rates scheme. It is not | :15:02. | :15:11. | |
fit for purpose. There are limitations. Having a 25% increase | :15:12. | :15:18. | |
in council tax for people local in council tax for people local | :15:19. | :15:31. | |
level to fund social care is simply not acceptable. If we do not find | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
another way of funding social care and hills, we will have this debate | :15:37. | :15:44. | |
over and over again. People in a decent society deserve better than | :15:45. | :15:47. | |
that. They contribute to the country by working hard. The one that change | :15:48. | :15:53. | |
for the generations to come after them. Firstly, I hope the fear | :15:54. | :16:01. | |
funding settlement will come forward with an equation which will not be | :16:02. | :16:09. | |
further delayed the net has to be. I thought we can get through the | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
transitional phase. I hope all the people will support it as a matter | :16:15. | :16:23. | |
of urgency. Those who require to be treated in the role home will | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
require further funding. We need additional money. More than that, I | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
believe everyone should fulfil their potential. I hope that the Secretary | :16:35. | :16:45. | |
of State finds the job he wants quite soon. I thank honourable | :16:46. | :16:53. | |
members for their contributions to this debate. It is my pleasure to | :16:54. | :17:00. | |
close it. It is an important aim of reform for local government finance. | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
It provides a sustainable path to the reforms introduced by the end of | :17:05. | :17:11. | |
parliament. The set of business rates will be devolved to local | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
government. It will give them access to an additional 12.5 billion pounds | :17:17. | :17:23. | |
of business rates to be set in own local services. It was introduced to | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
the house just last month. That bill will also enshrine in law our | :17:30. | :17:36. | |
commitment to establishing a legal framework, which will be a key | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
feature of the settlement. That is something which local government has | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
called for further decades. We will continue to work with local | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
government over the coming months on the detail of the reform. Much of | :17:51. | :17:57. | |
that will be set out in secondary legislation. We are aware that many | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
approach. Thanks to this governments approach. Thanks to this governments | :18:02. | :18:09. | |
action, 600,000 businesses are being lifted out of business rates | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
altogether. The revaluation was overdue. Many will end up paying the | :18:15. | :18:27. | |
same or a reduced amount of money. Three quarters of business will | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
benefit. I am aware of the impact on the one quarter who will see the | :18:32. | :18:38. | |
business rates rise. We are looking closely at what can be done to help | :18:39. | :18:48. | |
them. It is important that we have a regular revaluation. As ever, my | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
honourable friend makes an important point. His experience of running a | :18:55. | :19:02. | |
business himself. The government has very clear that we want to move to a | :19:03. | :19:10. | |
system of regular revaluation. This is a very important point. As my | :19:11. | :19:17. | |
right honourable friend the Secretary of State announced | :19:18. | :19:20. | |
earlier, he is working very closely with the Chancellor to see how we | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
can best offer support to those businesses seeing the biggest | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
increases as a result of the evaluation. We expect to be able to | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
make an announcement of the time of the budget in a fortnight. One | :19:37. | :19:44. | |
aspect of business rates retention is being launched next year. We are | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
looking local government retaining business rates without further | :19:51. | :20:00. | |
denting any of the budget. We are looking at two tier camping areas. | :20:01. | :20:10. | |
The roll-out of 100% business rates retention will be ruled out in | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
England in 2019. My colleague laid out exactly how this might be | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
implemented. I look forward to discussing this in the house over | :20:21. | :20:29. | |
the next few weeks. We want to meet local authority self sufficient. | :20:30. | :20:29. | |
This settlement we will vote on This settlement we will vote on | :20:30. | :20:37. | |
today reaffirms our commitment to funding certainty for local | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
government. At the spending review, we delivered a if financial | :20:42. | :20:52. | |
settlement and a four-year funding project which was bold and | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
ambitious. The settlement is the second of the four-year offer which | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
was the beat it and has been accepted by 90% 97% of local | :21:01. | :21:10. | |
with the resources are required to with the resources are required to | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
deliver world-class public services in the years ahead for continuing to | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
play the part on helping bring down the deficit. We have consulted very | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
carefully and I am grateful to honourable members who have brought | :21:23. | :21:29. | |
the constituents views to us during the consultation. Adult social care | :21:30. | :21:38. | |
is an issue which is close to all of our hearts and one which transcends | :21:39. | :21:45. | |
party politics. I take seriously the representation on the subject today. | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
I take seriously the need to show greater respect, dignity and | :21:50. | :21:57. | |
independence for those requiring social care. We have put in ?3.5 | :21:58. | :22:04. | |
adult social care. We acknowledge adult social care. We acknowledge | :22:05. | :22:15. | |
that the coming year is particularly challenging. The energy challenges | :22:16. | :22:22. | |
which must be met no before these substantial additional resources | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
become available. That is why we have created the ?240 million adult | :22:27. | :22:34. | |
social care support fund. We've also raise the by 3%. We will also do | :22:35. | :22:43. | |
that next year. Together, it will mean ?900 million of additional | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
funding for adult social care over the next couple of years. The total | :22:50. | :22:56. | |
of over the four-year settlement will be ?4.6 billion. As we look to | :22:57. | :23:02. | |
the future, local government funding will be based on local resources and | :23:03. | :23:10. | |
not the central grant. We are devising a new funding formula that | :23:11. | :23:18. | |
is fit for purpose. The Secretary of State earlier recognise | :23:19. | :23:18. | |
contributions which had been made by contributions which had been made by | :23:19. | :23:27. | |
many colleagues here today. The growth of the elderly population has | :23:28. | :23:35. | |
directly affected this and put pressure on services. We do take | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
into consideration these views and look at ways in which the system can | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
be more transparent and fever. We have been working closely with local | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
government to make sure this formula works. We will be making changes as | :23:51. | :23:57. | |
fast as possible within the parliamentary timetable. Did you | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
with a few of the comments mentioned. Firstly, the honourable | :24:01. | :24:07. | |
gentleman who is never backwards in coming forward. It was interesting | :24:08. | :24:16. | |
that many of his arguments were inconsistent during the debate. But | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
he was consistent in not coming up with one single idea of how we would | :24:22. | :24:29. | |
solve the challenges the country faces or those faced by local | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
government. I was interested also by his colleagues comments saying, we | :24:35. | :24:46. | |
are is the money? Perhaps he should contact is honourable member for | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
Birmingham who could give him some advice. He would be able to tell | :24:51. | :24:57. | |
them where the money went. My right honourable friend makes some very | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
pertinent points. She mentioned unitary authorities. We have | :25:03. | :25:09. | |
listened to proposals. These must be driven from a local level. These | :25:10. | :25:18. | |
must be coming from the bottom up. We would be more than willing to | :25:19. | :25:25. | |
listen to that. She also mentioned the local authority spending | :25:26. | :25:31. | |
challenge. That is also part of the settlement. In many cases, councils | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
who have additional reserves are able to sometimes use these | :25:38. | :25:39. | |
resources to bridge the funding gap resources to bridge the funding gap | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
until we know what the situation is going to be like in the fourth year | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
of this settlement. in terms of his comments about 100% | :25:47. | :26:09. | |
business protection, he advocated additional funding should go | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
directly to local governments. Whilst that may seem tempting, just | :26:15. | :26:21. | |
to remind him, we have been very clear that the situation would be | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
fiscally neutral so any responsibilities which would be new | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
and come with the ?12.5 billion would be put to local government. It | :26:34. | :26:39. | |
was good to hear from the honourable member for Wells who is a strong | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
champion for his constituency. He supported the fair funding review | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
and I did hear his concerns regarding that as well. A similar | :26:50. | :26:56. | |
sentiment was made by my honourable friend for Austin and Newquay. I | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
very much take their comments into account. I also held the comments | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
about business rate protection baseline and the principle of | :27:08. | :27:11. | |
resetting the system which is an important part of the business tree | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
protection system. Finally he mentioned the aggregate levy, he | :27:17. | :27:19. | |
spoke to my honourable friend the Secretary of State on that and I | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
will look into the points he makes. My honourable friend for St Ives, | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
makes important points about the uniqueness of the Scilly Isles and I | :27:30. | :27:35. | |
take this on board. My noble friend from Chislehurst has vast experience | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
in local government, I was pleased to hear his welcoming the attendance | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
allowance not being included in business rates protection. He was | :27:46. | :27:51. | |
right that there needs to be more done on the integration of health | :27:52. | :27:57. | |
and social care. He was right to advocate the business rate | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
multiplier is changed from RPI to CPI which the government fully | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
intends to do. In conclusion, this local government finance sector | :28:07. | :28:13. | |
commitment honours our funding to councils which are committed to | :28:14. | :28:19. | |
reform. It recognises the costs and will make resources available | :28:20. | :28:21. | |
sooner. It fits councils and the driving seat with a commitment to | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
support them with the fair banding formula. It will give government the | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
resources needs to go further and I commend it to the House. The | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
question is the motion on the report of local government finance England | :28:36. | :28:37. | |
as on the order paper. All those in favour say aye, | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
all those against say no. Order, I remind how House this | :28:42. | :31:07. | |
motion is subject to double majority voting. Hall House and those | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
representing constituencies. The question is the motion on the local | :31:13. | :31:14. | |
government finance report. All those in favour say aye, | :31:15. | :31:17. | |
all those against say no. the Minister to move the second | :31:18. | :43:38. | |
motion. This relates to council tax increases. Principles England is on | :43:39. | :43:46. | |
the order paper. All those in favour say aye, | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
all those against say no. The Minister to move the third | :43:51. | :44:05. | |
motion. Referendums relating to council tax increases of alternative | :44:06. | :44:14. | |
notional amounts. As on the order paper. | :44:15. | :44:17. | |
All those in favour say aye, all those against say no. | :44:18. | :44:20. | |
We will move on to number four. Local government. | :44:21. | :44:36. | |
All those in favour say aye, all those against say no. | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
All those in favour say aye, all those against say no. | :44:41. | :44:53. | |
All those in favour say aye, all those against say no. | :44:54. | :45:09. | |
All those in favour say aye, all those against say no. | :45:10. | :45:20. | |
The adjournment. The question is that this house no germs. Members | :45:21. | :45:38. | |
unaccounted worry so can do so unaccounted worry so can do so | :45:39. | :45:44. | |
quickly and quietly. They are missing out on a significant | :45:45. | :45:51. | |
experience. This question to know John? I am most fateful for that | :45:52. | :46:04. | |
very kind introduction. I hopefully do not want to do is detain my | :46:05. | :46:11. | |
friend the Minister. There's 55 minutes left for this adjournment | :46:12. | :46:22. | |
debate. I will begin by stating what we all know to be true that housing | :46:23. | :46:30. | |
associations to the most phenomenal work often for houses with the most | :46:31. | :46:38. | |
vulnerable people in our communities and do so in a very professional and | :46:39. | :46:45. | |
engaged with. Without housing associations and the commitment, the | :46:46. | :46:53. | |
problems piling up for our local authorities and for others as | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
constituency members of Parliament would be multiplied. With the | :46:58. | :47:07. | |
backdrop of a shortfall, it is with a particular sadness that I felt we | :47:08. | :47:17. | |
had no other option but to secure this debate this evening. This is in | :47:18. | :47:28. | |
relation to the Aster Group Housing Association, which operates in my | :47:29. | :47:34. | |
constituency and in other constituencies of honourable friends | :47:35. | :47:40. | |
in the house. The corporate public relations state that Aster is | :47:41. | :47:51. | |
unethical landlord committed to benefiting society. It says it has a | :47:52. | :47:58. | |
huge impact on peoples lives, from the hills to the well-being. But in | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
the case of my constituent, that is certainly not the case. It proves | :48:04. | :48:13. | |
point that warm words do not batter any parsnips. Talk is cheap on eBay | :48:14. | :48:18. | |
website. When practical application is tested, that is not the case. Due | :48:19. | :48:25. | |
to the sensitivity of this, I will not be naming either of my | :48:26. | :48:34. | |
constituents involved in this case. It is to some extent on going. But | :48:35. | :48:38. | |
the constituent I am seeking to represent is not someone who | :48:39. | :48:46. | |
complains. She has always had friendly relations with all of the | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
housing association tenants who have lived next to her. But she is a | :48:52. | :48:57. | |
private resident owning her own property. It is a rather small and | :48:58. | :49:06. | |
isolated community within my constituency. She is a women who | :49:07. | :49:13. | |
lives alone. She works. She is self supporting and self sustaining. She | :49:14. | :49:22. | |
has had considerable proportions -- problems with tenants who have been | :49:23. | :49:28. | |
host by Aster in the property immediately adjacent to her. | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
Anti-social behaviour of the physical and verbal kind have gone | :49:34. | :49:41. | |
on for several months. The excellent district councillor Simon Tong has | :49:42. | :49:49. | |
been involved and so frustrated that he become that he asked me to bring | :49:50. | :49:58. | |
together a multi-agency group including the police and the | :49:59. | :50:01. | |
District Council to see if we could identify a way through this | :50:02. | :50:07. | |
particular problem. It is this. A single lady living alone is no felt | :50:08. | :50:16. | |
so intimidated to stay within her own property, arguably, a breach of | :50:17. | :50:26. | |
her human rights under article eight, that she has had to move out | :50:27. | :50:32. | |
of her property to seek private rental accommodation, which is | :50:33. | :50:40. | |
difficult for Passion of rather modest means. Her credit cards are | :50:41. | :50:44. | |
now at their maximum. This is proving a real stress and strain for | :50:45. | :50:53. | |
her. The corporate watch on the Aster website of the importance of | :50:54. | :50:59. | |
quality housing. It is actually having the complete juxtaposition | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
and opposite effect in the case of my constituent. I mention the | :51:05. | :51:10. | |
allegations she makes her not fictitious and have been accepted by | :51:11. | :51:14. | |
the housing association and have been endorsed by the police. So far, | :51:15. | :51:27. | |
the only identified remedy for this is for the housing association | :51:28. | :51:33. | |
itself to seek an injunction in the courts to seek an eviction. But the | :51:34. | :51:39. | |
process of this injunction requires a neighbour to give written and | :51:40. | :51:47. | |
potential oral testimony to that court, with no guarantee which is | :51:48. | :51:53. | |
always the case in the legal process, that the application to the | :51:54. | :51:57. | |
court would be successful. Frankly, I do not know if this is the one of | :51:58. | :52:06. | |
unique case all of this is mirrored elsewhere. Maybe there are other | :52:07. | :52:11. | |
tenants and neighbours with similar problems. To an extent, it does not | :52:12. | :52:20. | |
matter if it is an individual case. It has had the most fundamental | :52:21. | :52:25. | |
understanding and upsetting and devastating outcome on the quality | :52:26. | :52:36. | |
of her life. I am very grateful. I congratulate him on assuring this | :52:37. | :52:45. | |
important debate. I have had similar cases. I know others. Part of the | :52:46. | :52:57. | |
problem is there is no duty of care no legal imperative on the housing | :52:58. | :53:03. | |
associations to take any action. The housing associations find it very | :53:04. | :53:07. | |
difficult to take action in these circumstances. He is right. He | :53:08. | :53:16. | |
brings considerable experience as a lawyer to this debate. I am grateful | :53:17. | :53:25. | |
for a colleague who also intervened in this debate. A number of | :53:26. | :53:32. | |
colleagues when they saw the name of the company on the order paper have | :53:33. | :53:37. | |
come up to me and said, yes we have had problems with them. They are the | :53:38. | :53:43. | |
least will performing housing association in my constituency. | :53:44. | :53:51. | |
Aster Came up to see me yesterday. The just given an incredulous shrug | :53:52. | :54:02. | |
of the shoulders. The almost seem to think I was making it up. I shrug of | :54:03. | :54:06. | |
the shoulders. Nothing to do with us. I will give way at the moment. | :54:07. | :54:18. | |
This lady is not fictitious. In an e-mail, the anti-social behaviour | :54:19. | :54:27. | |
officer said in December, we are satisfied anti-social behaviour is | :54:28. | :54:37. | |
being taken letters are duty as a housing association to take action. | :54:38. | :54:43. | |
of last year. In the words of the of last year. In the words of the | :54:44. | :54:49. | |
local councillor, it is clear to all of us that Aster are playing all the | :54:50. | :54:57. | |
delaying tactics that they can. Just a bit on to the injunction process. | :54:58. | :55:04. | |
Given the level of intimidation about what this lady has been | :55:05. | :55:12. | |
through two driver. They have hurled verbal abuse at her. Damaged | :55:13. | :55:19. | |
property within the vicinity of her own property. It is little wonder | :55:20. | :55:28. | |
she has been fundamentally un-willing to play a part in the | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
court proceedings, because of anxiety and fear. | :55:33. | :55:41. | |
is taking the view, it is 1's which I do not link is so clear cut as to | :55:42. | :55:54. | |
be true, that without the active participation of the private | :55:55. | :55:59. | |
resident next award, they are unable to begin the injunction process. I | :56:00. | :56:05. | |
do not believe that is correct. Looking at the briefing note prison | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
-- appeared by the librarian in this place, that does not seem to be | :56:11. | :56:15. | |
borne out. They just seem to be unwilling and hoping the issue will | :56:16. | :56:25. | |
go away. Of course. I am disturbed to hear this case about his | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
constituents. I deal with those issues all too often in my own | :56:31. | :56:36. | |
office. Is this system the same on the mainland as it is in Northern | :56:37. | :56:40. | |
Ireland where the tenant of the association has a set of rules that | :56:41. | :56:45. | |
here she must adhere to? If they do not adhere to that, they can be | :56:46. | :56:50. | |
recommended and evicted eventually if they do not do what they should | :56:51. | :56:59. | |
do. My honourable friend is absolutely right. Further perusal of | :57:00. | :57:10. | |
the corporate propaganda of the association makes absolutely clear | :57:11. | :57:13. | |
that anti-social behaviour is a breach of the tenancy. They are | :57:14. | :57:21. | |
utterly and totally unambiguous. In their assessment of what such | :57:22. | :57:28. | |
behaviour represents. And yet, even now, they refuse either unwilling or | :57:29. | :57:32. | |
whatever in order to take the action which I believe is actually | :57:33. | :57:41. | |
required. I wrote, Madam Deputy Speaker, earlier this year to make | :57:42. | :57:46. | |
what I thought, I am sure we have all done this, when you make a | :57:47. | :57:52. | |
request or suggestion which I would say in the vernacular is a | :57:53. | :57:58. | |
no-brainer. The answer you expect to get, you almost think you could | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
write yourself. The request is modest, politely and respectfully | :58:03. | :58:10. | |
put and the expectation is clear. It was a very simple one. Given the | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
fact that my constituent is now in cutting costs which you cannot can | :58:16. | :58:20. | |
-- cannot sustain and is racking up debts which will have to be serviced | :58:21. | :58:24. | |
in due course. She has a home which she feels is not safe to return to, | :58:25. | :58:32. | |
could this association make some contribution to her additional | :58:33. | :58:35. | |
housing costs whilst this was resolved? I hope it was not naive, I | :58:36. | :58:44. | |
think it was in hindsight. I merely said I was aware they had no legal | :58:45. | :58:49. | |
obligation so to do but given their stated portrait aims and objectives, | :58:50. | :58:54. | |
there was a moral case and compulsion that they should take | :58:55. | :59:00. | |
part in that process. That elicited a response which told me what I | :59:01. | :59:10. | |
already understood. That they had no legal obligation and however | :59:11. | :59:16. | |
regrettably and I quote from a letter from the regional director of | :59:17. | :59:23. | |
Somerset, Dorset and Wiltshire of Aster Group Housing Association, I | :59:24. | :59:26. | |
cannot agree with you that the association has a moral obligation | :59:27. | :59:31. | |
to do so. This is in sharp distinction to what the stayed in | :59:32. | :59:36. | |
their corporate objectives of wishing to be a good neighbour | :59:37. | :59:40. | |
engaged in the community, doing good in our rural areas. Here is a prime | :59:41. | :59:46. | |
face a case where they have clearly not just done good but where tenant | :59:47. | :59:53. | |
is doing significant harm and they seem unwilling or unable to | :59:54. | :00:01. | |
intervene. That has been I think the most depressing of all. That utter | :00:02. | :00:10. | |
and total pilot like washing of hands of any form of moral | :00:11. | :00:20. | |
obligation. And soon closing, this case has in my mind raced two | :00:21. | :00:30. | |
issues. -- raised. I invite the Minister to reply, not necessarily | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
from the dispatch watched this evening, but he can have more | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
thought and I'm happy to meet him to discuss it. It is clear that in | :00:38. | :00:43. | |
actual fact for a housing association to evict a tenant of | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
which they are convinced is committing anti-social behaviour and | :00:48. | :00:56. | |
is damaging the House itself and is damaging their private neighbours | :00:57. | :00:58. | |
property and making their lives a misery. It does seem to me overly | :00:59. | :01:08. | |
onerous if the housing association aye is correct that you then need to | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
have the active engagement of the person who has brought the complaint | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
in seeking redress in the courts. There has to be surely a gambit in | :01:18. | :01:25. | |
the guidance whereby in particular the housing association tenant | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
relationship, there should be an additional duty of care, duty of | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
responsibility for the behaviour of the tenants. If a tenant under Aster | :01:34. | :01:42. | |
Group Housing Association rules is committing anti-social behaviour and | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
is in breach of their tenancy agreement, that should be that. But | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
it is not. If my constituent was married to a very tall, weight | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
lifter type man who was always around, not like me. I am more of | :01:59. | :02:05. | |
the Jack Russell variety of guard dog rather than the more robust | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
which I think my constituent may be in need of. However I am a champion | :02:10. | :02:16. | |
for the cause of my constituent. But living alone in an isolated area and | :02:17. | :02:23. | |
she sought the advice of the police. I cannot thank enough Tom Clements | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
and others in the constabulary who had been closely engaged in this. As | :02:28. | :02:35. | |
we know the police budget is always difficult and strained. This is an | :02:36. | :02:38. | |
area of sparse population and they have bent over backwards to do what | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
they can. They have made themselves available to me and I want to put on | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
record my enormous gratitude to them. But we had to confirm to her | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
that given the location of the property, they could not guarantee | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
their safety and security if the injunction was granted and the | :02:57. | :03:04. | |
eviction was made, particularly if the injunction was not granted and | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
the tenants remained. We even suggested to the housing association | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
which is always seeking to add to its stock whether they might be | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
interested in buying the property at the market rate, not any huge uplift | :03:18. | :03:23. | |
but again that is a commonplace suggestion which was also dismissed | :03:24. | :03:30. | |
slightly out of hand. It may well be that the front bench needs to | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
consider the rules and regulations with regard to eviction of housing | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
association tenants. The vast majority of whom, let me put it on | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
record, are decent folk, law-abiding and helpful part of their community. | :03:46. | :03:53. | |
But there does seem to be, the second thing I would invite the | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
Minister to give some consideration to, is the duty of a social | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
landlords were their properties are adjacent to private residences. This | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
could easily see a devaluation of the property although that is of | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
course not the point. But the ability of a housing association to | :04:14. | :04:22. | |
place, it could be a troubled family, it could be somebody with in | :04:23. | :04:30. | |
general, it might not but when anti-social behaviour arises, they | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
have placed the tenant there. There has to be, in my opinion, a greater | :04:36. | :04:42. | |
duty of care and certainly budget -- a greater duty of responsibility to | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
those residents. I do not know whether as the principal housing | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
white paper evolves through this place, that might provide a hook to | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
hang something on, if indeed there was any traction for this problem. | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
As we stand tonight, Madam Deputy Speaker, all I have been able to do | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
on behalf of one of my district councils, I distressed resident, the | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
police and myself, is to put on record are very real anxiety and are | :05:15. | :05:23. | |
very real upset on behalf of a private resident who until the row | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
-- the arrival of these tenants, had been enjoying her life and the | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
property for which she had worked. I'm just summing up. One of the | :05:33. | :05:40. | |
things he has not mentioned which I hope to boost, his constituent who | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
owns a property, if she was to sell their property, she would have to | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
notify any potential buyer of her problems. This would result in | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
financial disadvantage perhaps and make it difficult for her to do what | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
she wants to do which is get out and get ahead. I am grateful to him, | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
that is a point which I have not thought about but in now so doing, | :06:04. | :06:12. | |
he is absolutely right. If there is been a neighbour dispute, the | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
questionnaire you have to complete for conveyancing does not have a get | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
out of jail free card, was the property rented in the social | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
private sector but have you had a neighbourly dispute? My honourable | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
friend raises an important point. As I was saying, in conclusion, against | :06:32. | :06:40. | |
all the backdrop and corporate speech on the website, against all | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
policies, a lady working, trying to make her way, trying to feel safe in | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
her own home has been forced out of it through fear, anxiety and | :06:53. | :06:58. | |
intimidation. I do believe, although I see this more in sorrow than | :06:59. | :07:05. | |
anger, although it is hard to retain the anger, I think Aster Group | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
Housing Association has been lacking in proactive engagement and sympathy | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
in this occasion. They need to know and my constituent needs to be | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
assured that I will not rest until we get justice for this lady who | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
hitherto I believe has been denied it. Andrew Percy. Thank you Madam | :07:26. | :07:33. | |
Deputy Speaker. I want to begin with an apology on behalf of their | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
housing minister who is unable to respond to this this evening. I am | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
here and happy to respond, having myself been through a number of | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
cases which are very similar to that of my honourable friend. I want to | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
congratulate him on securing this debate and doing what he has done | :07:53. | :07:58. | |
already in a short time, gained a reputation for, which is standing up | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
for North Dorset and his constituents. It is also telling | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
that there are other members you from across the United Kingdom but | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
specifically on the front and back bench, from areas of the country | :08:13. | :08:15. | |
were Aster Group Housing Association are active. I hope very much the | :08:16. | :08:22. | |
listening to this debate. If they are not, they had better read the | :08:23. | :08:24. | |
words of my honourable friend tomorrow. Anti-social behaviour and | :08:25. | :08:32. | |
nuisance can take many forms. If left unchecked it can have a huge | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
impact on people's lives, as we heard from my honourable friend in | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
relation to this particular case. Whilst individuals should be held to | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
account, in cases of anti-social behaviour in the social housing | :08:48. | :08:55. | |
tenants, social housing landlords have a moral duty to work with the | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
police and local authorities to resolve matters. I will see more | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
about the responsibilities of social landlords but when emphasising that, | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
we should not fail to recognise the responsibility for this behaviour | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
comes from the individual. Having spent ten years in local government | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
and seven years here, I cannot get my head around why some people | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
choose to make life so difficult and offal for other people. I have seen | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
people's lives destroyed by neighbours who simply cannot be used | :09:29. | :09:34. | |
in a decent, respectful neighbourly manner. It is appalling and my heart | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
goes out to the constituent in this case who has had her home and life | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
changed in the rematch honourable friend so eloquently outlined. | :09:45. | :09:52. | |
Leaving aside the responsibility of the individual, social landlords | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
have absolutely responsibility and duty. They must demonstrate a | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
tenants and residents how easily they can report anti-social | :10:01. | :10:03. | |
behaviour and provide active support to victims and witnesses. We have as | :10:04. | :10:09. | |
a government recognise the frustration of victims of | :10:10. | :10:11. | |
anti-social behaviour with regard to how complex and slow process art to | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
evict anti-social tenants in social housing. I used to find this | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
incredibly frustrating as a local councillor. We would go through this | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
routine... Order. I moved that this House adjourns. Andrew Percy. | :10:29. | :10:40. | |
I the process becoming a round in a circle. That is why we passed the | :10:41. | :10:58. | |
anti-social act in 2014. Those powers make it easier for social | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
landlords to take swift and decisive action against anti-social tenants. | :11:03. | :11:14. | |
Those powers of there to protect the activities of law-abiding citizens. | :11:15. | :11:20. | |
The majority of them are, including those in social housing. It is also | :11:21. | :11:29. | |
to protect victims from unacceptable behaviour. They can take civil | :11:30. | :11:37. | |
injunctions against social tenants who are engaging in anti-social | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
behaviour. That does carry significant sanctions. Of course, | :11:44. | :11:52. | |
most make proportionate and reasonable judgments before opting | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
for a civil injunction. This can often be fast and protective | :11:58. | :12:05. | |
protection for tenants and city clear standard of behaviour for | :12:06. | :12:12. | |
perpetrators. The ground for positions in the act makes it easier | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
for landlords to evict persistent anti-social tenants. Especially in | :12:18. | :12:27. | |
this case, of anti-social behaviour has been proven in court. Landlords | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
can use the position for one of five conditions is met. Those are that | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
the tenant or person visiting has been convicted of a series of | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
friends. The tenant has been found by a court to have breached a civil | :12:45. | :12:53. | |
injunction. Has been convicted for reaching the noise abatement order. | :12:54. | :13:02. | |
Or breaching a curfew order for anti-social behaviour. The | :13:03. | :13:09. | |
government has published this to front-line professionals on the use | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
of these powers. There are specific questions that my friend brought up. | :13:14. | :13:19. | |
We will feed that into the process. We have also set up an anti-social | :13:20. | :13:26. | |
behaviour advisory group. Government is also currently reviewing the | :13:27. | :13:33. | |
statutory guidelines with regard to front-line professionals with the | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
use of the powers. We expect that to be published in spring of this year. | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
Perhaps the cadence can then be used by those professionals working in | :13:44. | :13:52. | |
housing. I wanted to the specific case that my honourable friend from | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
North Dorset has brought up. There are limitations on what we can and | :13:59. | :14:07. | |
cannot say. As I said at the beginning, I can only imagine how | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
bad the situation has been for the women for her to take such a serious | :14:13. | :14:21. | |
step. Obviously, within the realms of us, she has had to incur | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
substantial credit card debt, which she should absolutely not be put in | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
that position. We will make it absolutely clear to existing | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
customers that anti-social behaviour is unacceptable if it arises and it | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
would me lead to action being taken against them. That is very clear | :14:43. | :14:51. | |
that the published policy is that Aster must not delay on taking | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
action against tenants indulging in anti-social action. My honourable | :14:57. | :15:04. | |
friend will be we are, as he outlined, Aster has worked with the | :15:05. | :15:14. | |
police and councils in an effort to resolve this matter. I take on | :15:15. | :15:17. | |
the comments from my honourable the comments from my | :15:18. | :15:18. | |
friend about that effectiveness of friend about that effectiveness of | :15:19. | :15:25. | |
the joint action. I do understand that Aster has talked about pursuing | :15:26. | :15:34. | |
an injunction that this has not been taken. It does remain an option. I | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
appreciate the concerns he highlights about either option has | :15:40. | :15:47. | |
not taken up. It is the case that QC and professional witness evidence | :15:48. | :15:50. | |
those unable to give aid evidence those unable to give aid evidence | :15:51. | :15:59. | |
because of intimidation in pursuit of one of these injunctions. It | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
could be provided by a police officer Laurie a ski official who is | :16:04. | :16:13. | |
a rear of the situation of the witness. I will get more detail of | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
that. I will also write directly to the Aster Group Housing Association | :16:19. | :16:26. | |
author particular provision so that they are fully aware of them. Can I | :16:27. | :16:36. | |
also make reference to the call for Aster to pay compensation to the | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
affected family. That is a matter for Aster which I cannot comment on. | :16:43. | :16:56. | |
He has made a compelling moral case for that. I do understand that Aster | :16:57. | :17:09. | |
have installed to cameras into the residence which should lower | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
evidence to be gathered. The assurance that they will continue to | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
work with the family saw that she could return to her house is quite | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
swiftly as possible. But given a few years my friend has outlined with | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
regard to threats and intimidation, that may not be something she | :17:28. | :17:35. | |
desires. We can all agree that everyone needs to feel safe and | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
protected in their own communities. There is rule for the social housing | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
regulator with regard to anti-social behaviour. It requires housing | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
associations to publisher policy how the leak intend to tackle | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
anti-social behaviour with the award properties. It is also a framework | :17:57. | :18:14. | |
for complaints to be investigated. We would expect the housing | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
association with the social purpose association with the social purpose | :18:20. | :18:22. | |
of the tenants but all the residents of the tenants but all the residents | :18:23. | :18:29. | |
within that community. I will give way. Thank you. He has hit on the | :18:30. | :18:45. | |
exact problem. It is we're housing association tenants living alongside | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
private residence. There is almost an obligation here. It is much | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
easier when housing associations are dealing with tenants all under the | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
Housing Association umbrella. We need to look at what more can be | :19:01. | :19:06. | |
done to resolve this. The review rear undertaking will look at some | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
of these issues. It is naturally laying out when there are two | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
tenants in a dispute, it is much easier for the social landlord to | :19:18. | :19:24. | |
mediate and to take action. Again, setting aside the fact that the | :19:25. | :19:33. | |
individuals are responsible for the behaviour and they will not be let | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
off the hook, the housing association has a responsibility to | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
the community when one of the tenants as the source of anti-social | :19:44. | :19:46. | |
behaviour and should not really matter whether the neighbour as part | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
of the housing association family or a private occupier. But I take on | :19:51. | :20:03. | |
board the points he has referenced. I want to also raise awareness of | :20:04. | :20:12. | |
the community trigger. This was specifically to deal with the | :20:13. | :20:19. | |
concerns of anti-social behaviour that the concerns are not adequately | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
responded to. This requires agencies to deal with anti-social behaviour | :20:25. | :20:30. | |
which had previously been ignored. It brings together sections of the | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
police counsel to investigate. It was a very positive change in | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
legislation. Everybody has a right to live a safe and secure life and | :20:43. | :20:50. | |
that applies both to my honourable friend and her constituency who has | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
been victimised in this. Also, the other residents within that area. | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
These people who engage in this behaviour make people's lives hell. | :21:02. | :21:08. | |
The cause misery, affect people's hills, physically and mentally, and | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
it is completely unacceptable. All the agencies responsible have a role | :21:13. | :21:20. | |
to play to make sure that those who engage in this behaviour and deal | :21:21. | :21:28. | |
with appropriately. Always putting the views of the victim at the heart | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
of the response. That response must be proportionate. I want to finish | :21:35. | :21:41. | |
by thanking my honourable friend. I hope Aster I'm watching this debate. | :21:42. | :21:49. | |
They will have here the impassioned plea on behalf of my honourable | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
friend 's constituent. With regard to the issue of hearsay evidence and | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
professionals acting on behalf of of witnesses who feel intimidated, we | :22:00. | :22:06. | |
will Aster write to to clarify that and look very closely at this case | :22:07. | :22:14. | |
to see what else they can do to deal with this persistent anti-social | :22:15. | :22:20. | |
behaviour. As I said at the start, he has proven himself to be a | :22:21. | :22:28. | |
champion for his constituents, throughout his team here. The | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
question is that this house adjourned. | :22:34. | :22:43. | |
That is the end of business in the House of Commons. We will no be | :22:44. | :23:09. | |
going over to the House of Lords. In a world where we will not be able to | :23:10. | :23:18. | |
join forces not necessarily any coherent way. A lot of our aid goes | :23:19. | :23:26. | |
through our relationship with the EU. What consideration has been | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
given to the | :23:32. | :23:32. |