Browse content similar to 29/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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most recently on the attack last Wednesday. We should not forget that | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
day in day out emergency services work on our behalf and often put | :00:00. | :00:08. | |
themselves in danger as a result. I have kept in touch as has my right | :00:09. | :00:14. | |
honourable friend the Home Secretary with the security services and | :00:15. | :00:17. | |
Metropolitan Police on the investigation taking place into the | :00:18. | :00:23. | |
attack last week and I am looking forward to security arrangements and | :00:24. | :00:26. | |
I can assure him they have the resources they need to carry out | :00:27. | :00:31. | |
vital work. Of course we all pay tribute to the police for the work | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
they do but there are some problems that between 2015 and 2018 there | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
will be a real terms cut in central government funding to police forces | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
of 330 million. Can the Prime Minister assure the house the police | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
all over the country have the necessary resources to do the job? I | :00:51. | :01:00. | |
would remind him that what we have done is protected that police budget | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
and of course the former Shadow Home Secretary, his colleague, the right | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
honourable member, prior to the... At the Labour Party conference said | :01:11. | :01:17. | |
savings can be found. The police say 5-10% is just about doable. We have | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
protected the police budget. I have been speaking to police forces and | :01:24. | :01:26. | |
they are cleared the work they are doing has the resources they need. | :01:27. | :01:33. | |
The Police Federation survey recently undertaken reveals that 55% | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
of serving police officers say morale is low due to the way in | :01:39. | :01:45. | |
which funding has been treated. Front line policing is vital in | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
tackling crime and terrorism. Since 2010, there are 20,000 fewer police | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
officers, 12,000 fewer on the front line. I asked the Prime Minister | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
again, will she think again about the cuts and guaranteed policing on | :02:01. | :02:07. | |
the front line will be protected so every community can be assured it | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
has the officers it needs in their community? I said we have protected | :02:12. | :02:19. | |
those police budgets including of course the precepts they raise | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
locally. Let's think about what has happened since 2010. Since 2010 we | :02:24. | :02:30. | |
have seen crime is traditionally measured by the independent crime | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
survey falling by a third to a record low, and that is the work of | :02:35. | :02:41. | |
hard-working officers up and down this country. They have been backed | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
by this government. We have made them more accountable through | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
directly elected Police and Crime Commissioners and there has been | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
reform, including reform of the Police Federation that was | :02:54. | :02:56. | |
necessary, but we have ensured police have resources to do their | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
job and we see crime at a record low. The Royal air forces preparing | :03:01. | :03:12. | |
to fly typhoons from my constituency to Romania, to support Nato allies | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
on the border with Russia. This is as President Putin is locking up | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
political opponents and crushing calls for democracy. Will my right | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
honourable friend confirm that as we leave the EU, the United Kingdom | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
will continue to lead Nato in defending this vital border, and | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
will she paid tribute to the Armed Forces who safeguard our democracy | :03:38. | :03:47. | |
at home and abroad? I am very happy to join my honourable friend in | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
paying tribute to the men and women of our Armed Forces, they are the | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
best in the world and they worked tirelessly to keep us safe and we | :03:58. | :04:05. | |
open every gratitude. Our commitment to collective defence and security | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
through Nato is as strong as ever. We will meet our pledge to spend 2% | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
of GDP wand expense every year of the decade and we plan to spend 178 | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
billion on equipment. She referred to work done by the Royal Air Force | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
in relation to Romania. With Nato we deploy a battalion to Estonia and | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
squadron to Poland and I think that shows our commitment to our | :04:32. | :04:38. | |
collective security and defence. We associate ourselves with the | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
condolences of the Prime Minister and leader of the Labour Party and | :04:42. | :04:44. | |
praise for the emergency and security services. After the | :04:45. | :04:52. | |
appalling terrorist atrocity. Last year, the Prime Minister promised | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
before she would trigger Article 50 on leaving the EU, she would secure | :04:58. | :05:10. | |
a UK wide approach and agreement... Last year the Prime Minister did | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
make that promise and promised there would be agreement with the | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
governments of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland before triggering | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
Article 50. The Prime Minister has now triggered Article 50 and she has | :05:25. | :05:30. | |
done so without an agreement. There is no agreement. Why has she broken | :05:31. | :05:38. | |
her promise and her word? I have been clear throughout and since the | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
first visit that I made as Prime Minister to Edinburgh last July, | :05:45. | :05:52. | |
which was we would work with the devolved administrations and develop | :05:53. | :05:55. | |
a UK wide approach but in negotiations it would be a UK | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
approach taken into the negotiations and it would be the United Kingdom | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
government that took forward that position and I would remind him that | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
Scotland is part of the United Kingdom. People will note the Prime | :06:09. | :06:22. | |
Minister did not deny she would seek a UK wide approach and agreement | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
with the governments of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and there | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
is no agreement. The Scottish Government was elected with a higher | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
percentage of the vote with a bigger electoral mandate than the UK | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
Government. Yesterday the Scottish Parliament voted by 69 to 59 that | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
people in Scotland should have a choice about their future. After the | :06:47. | :06:54. | |
negotiations with the EU are concluded, there will be a period | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
for democratic approval of the outcome. That choice will be | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
exercised in this Parliament, in the European Parliament, and in 27 | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
member states of the EU. Given that everybody else will have a choice... | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
Will the people of Scotland have a choice... ? I say to the right | :07:14. | :07:24. | |
honourable gentleman that we are taking forward the views of the | :07:25. | :07:30. | |
United Kingdom into the negotiations with the European Union on the | :07:31. | :07:37. | |
United Kingdom exiting the European Union. The Scottish Nationalist | :07:38. | :07:49. | |
party consistently talks... Order! This is unseemly heckling. You are a | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
distinguished QC. You would not behave like that in the Scottish | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
courts. You would be chucked out. Prime Minister. The SNP consistently | :07:58. | :08:06. | |
talks about independence as the only subject they wish to talk about. I | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
said to him and his colleagues that now is not the time to be talking | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
about a second independence referendum. On today of all days, we | :08:17. | :08:25. | |
should be coming together as a United Kingdom to get the best deal | :08:26. | :08:35. | |
for Britain. Improving vocational and technical | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
education is vital to closing our productivity gap so can the Prime | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
Minister assure me vocational education will enjoy equal status | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
with academic education so that as we leave the EU, our young people | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
can be equipped to build the high skilled economy of the future? My | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
honourable friend has raised an important issue. It is essential for | :08:58. | :09:04. | |
young people we give vocational and technical education the right esteem | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
and focus because it is essential in addressing the productivity gap. We | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
want to deliver a world leading technical education system to create | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
genuine options that are equal in esteem, two options for young people | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
in esteem. In the budget, the Chancellor announced a significant | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
package of investment to represent the most ambitious post-16 reform | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
since the introduction of A-levels. We will invest an extra half ?1 | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
billion in Ingham's technical education and introduce maintenance | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
loans or those studying high-level technical qualifications at | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
institutes of technology. The Treasury Select Committee says that | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
having to fill in a tax return every three months means that many smaller | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
companies face disaster. The Federation of small business says | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
the extra cost is likely to be annually ?2700 a year. This is | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
another burden on business from this government. She got it wrong on | :10:11. | :10:18. | |
national Insurance, is she going to backtrack now on tax returns, as | :10:19. | :10:19. | |
well? Perhaps the honourable gentleman | :10:20. | :10:27. | |
should have listened to the announcement the Chancellor made in | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
the budget where he indicated he would be delaying the introduction | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
of this for the smallest businesses below the VAT threshold for a year. | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
But I think it is right that HMRC does try to move to a greater | :10:40. | :10:42. | |
digitisation of the way in which it operates. I think that will enable | :10:43. | :10:48. | |
it to give a better service to those people who are completing their | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
forms, and we should always remember that aspect of what is being | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
proposed. I welcome the additional money the Government has given for | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
adult social care, but it is important we also look at long-term | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
solutions for the. Will the Prime Minister look at issues with how the | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
system works with Northampton county council and Northampton General | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
Hospital? I say to my honourable friend but I'm grateful that he is | :11:16. | :11:22. | |
welcome for the extra money, the ?2 billion going to social care and out | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
by the Chancellor. This shows we have recognised the pressures and | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
demands on social care, but it is also important that we ensure best | :11:32. | :11:34. | |
practice is delivered across the whole of the country, it isn't just | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
about money, so we are trying to find a long-term sustainable | :11:40. | :11:41. | |
solution which will help local authorities to learn from each other | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
and raise standards across the system, and we will bring forward | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
proposals in a green paper later this year to put the state funded | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
system on a more sustainable and long-term footing. As Home | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
Secretary, the Prime Minister clearly didn't protect police | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
budgets. Last week she told me four times, we have protected the schools | :12:01. | :12:07. | |
budget. Does she still stand by that statement? We have protected schools | :12:08. | :12:14. | |
budgets, and we are putting record funding into schools. Today, Mr | :12:15. | :12:21. | |
Speaker, the Public Accounts Committee says the Department of | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
Education that it does not seem to understand the pressures that | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
schools are already under. And they went on to say that funding per | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
pupil is reducing in real terms, and goes on to say schools budgets will | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
be cut by ?3 billion, equivalent to 8%, by 2020. Is the Public Accounts | :12:42. | :12:51. | |
Committee wrong on this? What we see over the course of this Parliament | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
is ?230 billion going into our schools. But what matters is the | :12:58. | :13:00. | |
quality of education that we see in our schools. 1.8 million more | :13:01. | :13:06. | |
children in good or outstanding schools, and a policy from this | :13:07. | :13:09. | |
Government to ensure that every child gets a good school plays. Mr | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
Speaker, the daily experience of many parents who have children in | :13:15. | :13:20. | |
schools is that they get letters from the schools asking for money. | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
One parent, Elizabeth, wrote to me to say she has received a letter | :13:26. | :13:28. | |
from her daughter's school asking for a monthly donation to top up the | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
reduced funds that her school is receiving. This Government's cuts to | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
schools are betraying a generation of our children. If the Prime | :13:40. | :13:42. | |
Minister is right, then the parents are wrong, the teachers are wrong, | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
the IFF is wrong, the National Audit Office is wrong, the education | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
policy Institute is wrong and now the Public Accounts Committee, which | :13:55. | :13:56. | |
includes eight Conservative members in it, is also wrong. So which | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
organisation does back the Prime Minister's view on education | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
spending in our schools? I would say to the right honourable gentleman | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
that as I have just said to him, we said we would protect school | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
funding, and we have. A real terms protection for the schools budget. | :14:15. | :14:17. | |
We said we would protect the money following children into schools, and | :14:18. | :14:24. | |
we have, it reaches ?42 billion as pupil numbers rise in 19/ 20. But it | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
is also about the quality of education children are receiving. | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
1.8 million more children in good or outstanding schools than under the | :14:35. | :14:37. | |
Labour government. But I also say this, because time and time again, | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
the gentleman stands up in PMQs and asks questions which would lead to | :14:43. | :14:45. | |
more spending. Let's look at what he has done recently. On the 11th of | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
January, more spending. On the 8th of February, more spending. On the | :14:51. | :14:56. | |
22nd of February, more spending. On the first and the 8th of March, more | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
spending. On the 15th and 22nd of March, more spending. Barely a PMQs | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
goes by that he doesn't call for more public spending. When it comes | :15:07. | :15:12. | |
to spending money that they haven't got, Labour simply can't help | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
themselves. It's the same old Labour, spend today and give | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
somebody else the Bill tomorrow. Well, we won't do that to the next | :15:21. | :15:21. | |
generation. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I'm sure | :15:22. | :15:37. | |
everyone in the House will want to join me in paying tribute to the | :15:38. | :15:40. | |
thousands who worked in munitions factories in both world wars. Often | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
in very dangerous conditions. And they produced a vital equipment for | :15:46. | :15:48. | |
the Armed Forces that helped us to victory. I'm sure my honourable | :15:49. | :15:51. | |
friend will recognise that for practical reasons it is not possible | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
to pursue individual awards, but I know that the Department for | :15:57. | :15:59. | |
Business would be happy to work with him to look at further ways to | :16:00. | :16:02. | |
recognise the collective effort of former munitions workers. I thank my | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
right honourable friend for that answer. These ladies found that the | :16:08. | :16:10. | |
chemicals in the shells turned their skins yellow, and they were | :16:11. | :16:17. | |
nicknamed canary girls. I know my right honourable friend is | :16:18. | :16:19. | |
exceptionally busy at the moment, but could she find just a few | :16:20. | :16:22. | |
moments in her diary to meet me and some of these canary girls to | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
recognise their service? I would be very happy to do that. I would be | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
very happy to meet some canary girls. As I said, they did work | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
which was vital to the war effort. They did work which in one sense was | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
absolutely routine, but in another sense was extremely dangerous, and I | :16:40. | :16:42. | |
think we should recognise the efforts that they put in. Thank you, | :16:43. | :16:49. | |
Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister will be aware that the Welsh Labour | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
government has established a children's funeral fund. Many | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
leading funeral providers have also indicated that there will be no | :17:01. | :17:03. | |
charges for children and young people's funerals. I know the Prime | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
Minister is a compassionate woman, and I know she understands the | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
importance of a children's funeral fund. Will she agree to work with me | :17:13. | :17:18. | |
to establish this fund to bring some comfort to bereaved parents in their | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
darkest hour? I pay tribute to the honourable lady who has been | :17:24. | :17:26. | |
campaigning tirelessly on this issue, and obviously it is not just | :17:27. | :17:32. | |
a passionate campaign, but she has spoken on many occasions moving in | :17:33. | :17:34. | |
this House about her personal experience which she has brought to | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
bear on this issue. I welcome the decision taken by the co-operative | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
funeral company to waive the fees on this. There is some financial | :17:45. | :17:47. | |
support available, we are looking at this issue on the problems faced by | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
parents, and at what more can be done through a cross government | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
piece of work, and I ask the Minister for the Cabinet office who | :17:56. | :17:58. | |
is meeting on that piece of work to meet with us and talk about the | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
idea. As the Prime Minister will know, the budget gave an extra ?200 | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
million to the Welsh Labour government in order to provide | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
business rate relief. Will the Prime Minister agree with myself and the | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
leader of Monmouthshire council that Welsh Labour must now commit to | :18:15. | :18:18. | |
spending that money on supporting Welsh businesses and giving the same | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
level of support that has been provided in England by this | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
conservative Government? I say to my honourable friend he is absolutely | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
right. As he said at the budget, my right honourable friend the | :18:33. | :18:34. | |
Chancellor announced a ?200 million boost to the Welsh budget. They will | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
be able to use that money to support their own priorities, but the people | :18:41. | :18:43. | |
of Wales can send a clear signal about these priorities by voting for | :18:44. | :18:46. | |
Conservative councillors like Peter Fox on the 4th of May. And I have to | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
say it is the UK Government actions to support working families | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
throughout the country that will make sure Wales benefits. The | :18:57. | :19:02. | |
Foreign Secretary jury be EU referendum campaign urged people to, | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
and I quote, take back control of huge sums of money, ?350 million per | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
week, and spend it on our priorities such as the NHS. The Prime Minister | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
will trigger article 50 today. Can the Prime Minister confirm precisely | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
when she wants to fulfil the promise made by her Cabinet colleagues who | :19:24. | :19:26. | |
is sitting on the front page smirking at the British public? | :19:27. | :19:34. | |
Order, order, Boris is sitting perfectly comfortably, there is an | :19:35. | :19:56. | |
air of repose about the fellow! Prime Minister. | :19:57. | :19:59. | |
I am very happy to tell the honourable lady that when this | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
country leaves the European Union, we will have control of our budget | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
and we will decide how that money is spent. With modification, schools in | :20:09. | :20:15. | |
my constituency welcome the National funding formula, and given the | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
Leader of the Opposition's intervention, I hope my next | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
question doesn't land me on the naughty step, but given that | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
Stockport schools and other schools have been at the bottom of the | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
funding pile for years, and have less scope for efficiencies, would | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
my right honourable friend consider giving immediate support to them? As | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
my honourable friend is saying, what we are doing is aiming to end the | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
postcode lottery of schools funding, and schools funding is at a record | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
high. In relation to the minimum funding level, as I have said | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
before, the DFE have heard representations on the issue on this | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
national funding formula and will be considering those. There have been a | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
lot of responses to that, but it is a historic and complex reform but | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
there has been general agreement for many years that reform is needed, we | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
want to get this right which is why we are carefully considering it. | :21:15. | :21:21. | |
After nine months of this Prime Minister's approach to Brexit, | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
Northern Ireland is deadlocked, the Welsh are alienated, Scotland is | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
going for a referendum, the English are split down the middle and Brexit | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
MPs are walking out of Commons committees because they don't like | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
home truths. Has the Prime Minister considered in terms of invoking | :21:41. | :21:42. | |
Article 50 that now is not the time? What the UK Government is doing in | :21:43. | :22:01. | |
invoking article 50 is putting into practice the Democratic vote of the | :22:02. | :22:04. | |
British people on the 23rd of June last year in a referendum. There was | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
a referendum in 2014 in Scotland when the Scottish people voted to | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
remain part of the United Kingdom. I suggest The right honourable | :22:15. | :22:16. | |
gentleman and his colleagues put that into practice! Mr Speaker, | :22:17. | :22:24. | |
three quarters of my constituent Umag voted to leave the European | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
Union. Does the Prime Minister agree with me that as she triggers article | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
50, it marks a watershed moment, not only for this country's control of | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
immigration and our sovereignty, but also for listening to the views of | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
people who were forgotten for far too long? I absolutely agree with my | :22:43. | :22:50. | |
honourable friend. Not only are we putting into place the views of the | :22:51. | :22:58. | |
British people as set out in that referendum on the 23rd of June last | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
year, but crucially that was not just a vote about leaving the EU. It | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
was a vote about changing this country for the future, and this | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
Government has a clear plan for Britain that will change this | :23:11. | :23:13. | |
country, that will see us with a more global outlook, a stronger | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
economy, a fairer society and a more united nation. The people expect the | :23:18. | :23:29. | |
Prime Minister to follow her party's manifesto and abide by a majority | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
vote of this Parliament. So why does she say that the First Minister of | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
Scotland should do the opposite? What I say is that at this point in | :23:40. | :23:48. | |
time Dodge at this point in time as we face this historic moment of | :23:49. | :23:57. | |
facing Article 50 and this country's relationship with the European | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
Union, now is the time for us to pull together and not, part. On | :24:04. | :24:09. | |
Friday, thousands of people will be up and down this country raising | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
funds and awareness of brain tumour research. Many of these people will | :24:14. | :24:23. | |
know people someone who have suffered from a brain tumour. It is | :24:24. | :24:29. | |
a bigger cancer killer of children and adults under 40. Will the Prime | :24:30. | :24:33. | |
Minister join me in commending all these people raising awareness and | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
funds and see what more we can do to raise funding for brain tumour | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
research? This is an important area, and I believe in this area the UK | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
does have a good record of research on brain tumours, and that is | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
important, but he is absolutely right. The people who are raising | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
funds for this important cause should be commended, as he says many | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
of them will have had personal experience in one way or another of | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
brain tumours, and I think it is important that we recognise that | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
there are many killers out there which don't often receive the | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
publicity and support of others, and we should recognise their | :25:11. | :25:12. | |
importance, and commend those who are raising funds. | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
Can the Prime Minister said what she is doing to ensure national and | :25:19. | :25:25. | |
local government prioritise the purchasing and buying of British | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
goods and services, although the Home Secretary on police vehicles, | :25:31. | :25:40. | |
does not give us cause for optimism. We have been encouraging the | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
procurement of British goods and services. He asked what we can do | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
for local authorities, if people want local authorities to take their | :25:50. | :25:55. | |
best interests to heart, they should vote Conservative. Can I ask... I | :25:56. | :26:01. | |
congratulate the Prime Minister and invoking Article 50. Does she agree | :26:02. | :26:08. | |
this needs to be the end of the phoney war and posturing and focus | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
now on the detail for every industry, centre and community to | :26:14. | :26:16. | |
get a bespoke deal we can all get behind? I agree with my honourable | :26:17. | :26:24. | |
friend. Now is the time to come together and be united across this | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
House and country to ensure we work for the best deal for the United | :26:29. | :26:36. | |
Kingdom and best future for us all. The Prime Minister has rightly | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
emphasised her determination to deliver for all constituent parts of | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
the United Kingdom on this historic day and while others are content to | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
moan, we want to see that delivery happen and we are confident she will | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
make that happen. In Northern Ireland, where some have walked away | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
from responsibilities in terms of devolution, we want devolution up | :26:59. | :27:02. | |
and running to have a functioning government and we have set no | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
preconditions. If others continue to stay away from devolution and walk | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
away, will she pledged to work more closely with those of us in this | :27:13. | :27:15. | |
House to defend and protect the interests of Northern Ireland? We | :27:16. | :27:21. | |
say that we all want to work together to ensure we can protect | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
the best interests of Northern Ireland. I think that ensuring we | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
have strong devolved government in Northern Ireland is important for | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
the future and so we can build on the significant progress made in | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
recent years for the people of Northern Ireland and I urge all | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
parties to come to the talks with a view to finding a way through so | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
that Northern Ireland once again can be restored to devolved government. | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
With the Prime Minister agree social media companies need to take action | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
to remove extremist and hate material from platforms and to foot | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
the Bill for the police who are currently doing their dirty work at | :28:02. | :28:08. | |
the taxpayers' expense? This question of working with the | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
companies to ensure extremist material is removed as quickly as | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
possible is one that is not new. Through the counterterrorism | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
internet referral unit we have the process to enable the police to take | :28:22. | :28:27. | |
material down. 250,000 pieces of material have been taken down since | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
2010 and there has been increase in that activity in the last couple of | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
years. I know the Home Secretary will be meeting companies this week | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
to talk to them about this important issue. We do not want extremist | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
material on the internet, what we want to see is companies taking | :28:48. | :28:50. | |
action to remove material encouraging hate and division. Late | :28:51. | :28:58. | |
on Saturday night, a massive explosion devastated new ferry in my | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
constituency. We are thinking of those who were hurt. It is a miracle | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
more people were not injured. The community faces dereliction. All the | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
Prime Minister join with me in thanking all of those who looked | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
after my community over the weekend and recent days, and will she | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
arrange a meeting with the Secretary of State who can discuss how the | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
government can help us to rebuild New Ferry. I am happy to do those | :29:28. | :29:33. | |
things. I commend and thank all of those who worked hard in the | :29:34. | :29:39. | |
emergency services and others to support her community when this | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
devastating explosion took place. That work will continue. There will | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
be support I am sure being given to the community in the future and I am | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
happy to ask the Secretary of State to meet her and discuss how that | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
community can be rebuilt and overcome the impact of this | :29:59. | :30:06. | |
explosion. Order. Statement, the Prime Minister. | :30:07. | :30:20. | |
Thank you, Mr Speaker. Today, the government acts on the democratic | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
will of the British people. It acts on the clear and convincing position | :30:26. | :30:32. | |
of this House. A few minutes ago in Brussels, the United Kingdom's | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
permanent representative to the EU handed a letter to the president of | :30:37. | :30:42. | |
the European Council on my behalf, confirming the government decision | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
to invoke Article 50. The Article 50 process is now under way and in | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
accordance with the wishes of the British people the United Kingdom is | :30:52. | :30:58. | |
leaving the European Union. This is an historic moment from which there | :30:59. | :31:04. | |
can be no turning back. Britain is leaving the European Union. We are | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
going to make our own decisions and laws. We are going to take control | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
of things that matter most to us and we are going to take this | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
opportunity to build a stronger, fairer Britain, a country our | :31:19. | :31:21. | |
children and grandchildren are proud to call home. That is our ambition | :31:22. | :31:28. | |
and our opportunity. That is what this government is determined to do. | :31:29. | :31:35. | |
Mr Speaker, at moments like these, great turning points in our national | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
story, the choices we make to find the character of our nation. We can | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
choose to save the task ahead is too great, we can choose to turn our | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
face to the past and believe it cannot be done, or we can look | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
forward with optimism and hope and to believe in the power of the | :31:54. | :32:00. | |
British spirit. I choose to believe in Britain and that our best days | :32:01. | :32:09. | |
lie ahead. I do so because I am confident we have vision and plan to | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
use this moment to build a better Britain. For leaving the EU presents | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
us with a unique opportunity. It is this generation's chance to shape a | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
brighter future, a chance to step back and ask ourselves what kind of | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
country we want to be. My answer is clear. I want the United Kingdom to | :32:30. | :32:37. | |
emerge from this period of change stronger, fairer, more united and | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
more outward looking than ever before. I want us to be a secure, | :32:42. | :32:47. | |
prosperous, tolerant country, a magnet for international talent and | :32:48. | :32:50. | |
are home to the pioneers and innovators who will shape the world | :32:51. | :32:55. | |
ahead. I want us to be a truly global Britain. The best friend and | :32:56. | :33:02. | |
neighbour to our European partners, a country that reaches beyond the | :33:03. | :33:09. | |
borders of Europe. Can I apologise for interrupting. Mr Boswell, calm | :33:10. | :33:13. | |
yourself, you have to learn to behave in a statement -- | :33:14. | :33:24. | |
statesman-like fashion. I want all colleagues the chance to question | :33:25. | :33:30. | |
the Prime Minister. This is an important statement and it is | :33:31. | :33:33. | |
reasonable to expect the Prime Minister gets a courteous hearing. | :33:34. | :33:43. | |
Mr Speaker, I want us to be a truly global Britain, the best friend and | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
neighbour to our European partners that a country that reaches beyond | :33:49. | :33:51. | |
the borders of Europe, a country that goes into the world to build | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
relationships with new friends and allies alike. That is why I have set | :33:57. | :34:02. | |
out a clear and ambitious plan for the negotiations ahead, a plan for a | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
deep and special partnership between Britain and the European Union, of | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
values, a partnership of interests, a partnership based on cooperation | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
in areas such as security and economic affairs, and a partnership | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
that works in the best interests of the United Kingdom, European Union | :34:21. | :34:26. | |
and wider world. Perhaps now more than ever the world needs the | :34:27. | :34:34. | |
liberal democratic values of Europe. Values... Perhaps... | :34:35. | :34:55. | |
Perhaps now more than ever the world needs the liberal democratic values | :34:56. | :35:05. | |
of Europe, values the United Kingdom shares and that is why while we are | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
leaving the institutions of the European Union, we are not leaving | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
Europe, we will remain a close friend and ally, we would be a | :35:16. | :35:18. | |
committed partner and play our part to ensure Europe is able to protect | :35:19. | :35:24. | |
its values and defend itself from security threats and we will do all | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
we can to help the European Union prosper and succeed. In a letter | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
delivered to resident Donald Tusk today, copies of which I have placed | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
in the library, I have been cleared the deep and special partnership we | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
seek is in the best interests of the United Kingdom and European Union. I | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
have been clear we will work constructively in a spirit of | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
sincere cooperation to bring this partnership into being. I have been | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
clear we should seek to agree the terms of this future partnership | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
alongside those of our withdrawal within the next two years. I am | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
ambitious for Britain and the objectives set out for these | :36:05. | :36:09. | |
negotiations remain. We will deliver certainty wherever possible so that | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
business, the public sector and everybody has as much clarity as we | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
can provide. Tomorrow we will publish a White Paper confirming our | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
plans to convert it into British law so that everyone knows where they | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
stand. It is why I have been clear the government will put the final | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
deal agreed to a vote in both houses of parliament before it comes into | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
force. We will take control of our laws and bring an end to the | :36:39. | :36:41. | |
jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in Britain. Leaving the | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
European Union will mean our laws will be made in Westminster, | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast, and those laws will be interpreted by | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
judges not in Luxembourg, but in courts across this country. We will | :36:57. | :37:02. | |
strengthen the union of the four nations that comprise our United | :37:03. | :37:10. | |
Kingdom. We will negotiate as one United Kingdom, taking account of | :37:11. | :37:14. | |
the specific interests of every nation and region of the UK and when | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
it comes to the powers we take back from Europe, we will consult on | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
which powers should reside in Westminster and which should be | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
passed on to the devolved administrations. No decision | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
currently taken by the devolved administrations will be removed from | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
them and it is the expectation of the government the devolved | :37:37. | :37:38. | |
administrations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland will see a sick | :37:39. | :37:42. | |
that could increase in decision-making power as a result of | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
this process. We want to maintain the common travel area with the | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
Republic of Ireland, there shall be no return to the borders of the | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
past. We will control immigration so we continue to attract the brightest | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
and best to work and study in Britain, but manage the process so | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
that our immigration system serves the national interest. We seek to | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
guarantee the rights of EU citizens living in Britain and the rights of | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
British nationals in member states as early as we can. That is set out | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
clearly in the letter as an early priority for the talks ahead. We | :38:20. | :38:25. | |
will ensure workers' rights are protected and maintained and under | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
my leadership not only with the government protect the rights of | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
workers, but we will build on them. We will pursue an ambitious free | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
trade agreement with the European Union that allows for the freest | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
trading goods and services between Britain and the EU member states. | :38:43. | :38:45. | |
That gives British companies the maximum freedom to trade with and | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
operate within European markets and let European businesses do the same | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
in Britain, because European leaders have said many times we cannot | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
cherry pick and remain members of the single market without accepting | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
the four freedoms that are indivisible. We respect that | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
position and as accepting those freedoms is incompatible with the | :39:09. | :39:12. | |
expressed will of the British people, we will no longer be members | :39:13. | :39:18. | |
of the single market. We will make sure that we can strike trade | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
agreements with countries from outside the European Union. Because | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
important though trade with the EU is and will remain, it is clear the | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
UK needs to increase significantly its trade with the fastest-growing | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
export markets in the world. We hope to continue to collaborate with | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
European partners in science, education, research and technology, | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
said the UK is one of the best places for science and innovation | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
and we seek cooperation with our European partners in important areas | :39:51. | :40:00. | |
such as crime, terrorism and foreign affairs and it is our aim to deliver | :40:01. | :40:02. | |
a smoother quarterly Brexit, reaching agreement about future | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
partnership by the time the Article 50 process has concluded and moving | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
into a process of implementation in which Britain, EU institutions and | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
member states prepare for the new arrangements that will exist between | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
us. We understand that there will be consequences for the UK of leaving | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
the EU. We know we will lose influence... | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
We know that we will lose influence over the rules that affect the | :40:28. | :40:33. | |
European economy. We know that UK companies that trade with the EU | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
will have to align with rules agreed by institutions of which we are no | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
longer part. Just as we do in other overseas markets. And we accept | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
that. However, we approach these talks constructively, respectfully | :40:48. | :40:52. | |
and in a spirit of Cisse Corporation, for it is in the | :40:53. | :40:55. | |
interest of both the UK and the European Union that we use this | :40:56. | :41:00. | |
process to deliver our objectives in a fair and orderly manner. Is it is | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
in the interests of both the United Kingdom and the European Union that | :41:05. | :41:06. | |
there should be as little disruption as possible, and it is in the | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
interests of both the United Kingdom and the European Union that Europe | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
should remain strong, prosperous and capable of projecting its values in | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
the world. At a time when the growth of global trade is slowing and there | :41:21. | :41:23. | |
are signs the protectionist instincts are on the rise in many | :41:24. | :41:29. | |
parts of the world, Europe has a responsibility to stand up for free | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
trade in interest of all our citizens. With Europe's security | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
more fragile today than at any time since the end of the Cold War, | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
weakening our Corporation and failing to stand up for European | :41:44. | :41:47. | |
values would be a costly mistake. Our vote to leave the EU was no | :41:48. | :41:51. | |
rejection of the values we share as fellow Europeans. As a fellow | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
European country, we will continue to play our part in promoting and | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
supporting those values during the negotiations and once they are done. | :42:00. | :42:05. | |
We will continue to be reliable partners, willing allies and close | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
friends. We want to continue to buy goods and services from the EU and | :42:11. | :42:13. | |
sell them hours. We want to trade with them as freely as possible, and | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
work together to make sure we are all safer, more secure and more | :42:19. | :42:21. | |
prosperous through continued friendship. Indeed in an | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
increasingly unstable world, we must continue to forge the closest | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
possible security cooperation to keep our people safe. We face the | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
same global threats from terrorism and extremism. That message was only | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
reinforced by the Borren to tack on Westminster Bridge and this place | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
last week. -- the abhorrent attack. So there is no reason why they | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
should not be a special partnership between the UK and the EU that works | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
for us all. Mr Speaker, I know that this is a day of celebration for | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
some disappointment for others. The referendum last June was divisive at | :42:58. | :43:00. | |
times. Not everyone shared the same point of view or voted the same way. | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
The arguments on both sides were passionate. But Mr Speaker, when I | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
sit around the negotiating table in the months ahead, I will represent | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
every person in the United Kingdom, young and old, rich and poor, city, | :43:14. | :43:18. | |
town, country and all the villages and hamlets in between. And yes, | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
those EU nationals who have made this country their home. And it is | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
my fierce determination to get the right deal for every single person | :43:28. | :43:30. | |
in this country. For as we face the opportunities ahead of us on this | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
momentum journey, our shared values, interests and ambitions can and must | :43:35. | :43:41. | |
bring us together. We all want to see a Britain that is stronger than | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
it is today. We all want a country that is fairer so that everyone has | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
the chance to succeed. We all want a nation that is safe and secure for | :43:51. | :43:53. | |
our children and grandchildren. We all want to live in a truly global | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
Britain that gets out and build relationships with old friends and | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
new allies around the world. These are the ambitions of this Government | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
was my plan for Britain, ambitions that unite us so we are no longer | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
defined by the vote we cast but by our determination to make a success | :44:11. | :44:15. | |
of the result. We are one great union of people and nations with a | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
proud history and a bright future. And now that the decision to leave | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
has been made and the process is under way, it is time to come | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
together. For this great national moment needs a great national | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
effort. An effort to shape a stronger future for Britain. So let | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
us do so together. Let us come together and work together. Let us | :44:40. | :44:45. | |
together choose to believe in Britain with optimism and hope. For | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
if we do, we can make the most of the opportunities ahead. We can | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
together make a success of this moment. And we can together will | :44:54. | :44:59. | |
they stronger, fairer, better Britain, a Britain our children and | :45:00. | :45:02. | |
grandchildren are proud to call home. I commend this statement to | :45:03. | :45:03. | |
the House. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like | :45:04. | :45:16. | |
to thank the Prime Minister for an advance copy of her statement. Today | :45:17. | :45:23. | |
we embark on the country's most important negotiations in modern | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
times. The British people made the decision to leave the European | :45:28. | :45:30. | |
Union, and Labour respect that decision. The next steps along this | :45:31. | :45:36. | |
journey are the most crucial. If the Prime Minister is to unite the | :45:37. | :45:40. | |
country as she says she aims to do, the Government needs to listen, | :45:41. | :45:46. | |
consult and represent the whole country, not just the hardline Tory | :45:47. | :45:55. | |
ideologues on our own benches. Britain is going to change as a | :45:56. | :45:58. | |
result of leaving the European Union. The question is, how? There | :45:59. | :46:05. | |
are Conservatives who want to use Brexit to turn this country into a | :46:06. | :46:06. | |
low-wage tax havens. Labour is determined to invest in a | :46:07. | :46:21. | |
high skill, high-tech, high wage future, to rebuild and transform | :46:22. | :46:25. | |
Britain, so that no one and no community is left behind. Mr | :46:26. | :46:32. | |
Speaker, the direction the Prime Minister is threatening to take this | :46:33. | :46:35. | |
country in is both a reckless and damaging. And Labour will not give | :46:36. | :46:42. | |
this Government a free hand to use Brexit to attack rights, protections | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
and cut services, or create a tax dodgers' paradise. So let me be | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
clear, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister says that no deal is better | :46:53. | :47:00. | |
than a bad deal. But the reality is, no deal is a bad deal. Less than a | :47:01. | :47:08. | |
year ago, the Treasury estimated that leaving the European Union on | :47:09. | :47:15. | |
World Trade Organisation terms would lead to a 7.5% fall in our GDP. And | :47:16. | :47:26. | |
?45 billion lost in tax receipts. Has the Treasury updated those | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
figures, or do they still stand? If updated, can they be published? If | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
not, what deal could be worse than those consequences of no deal? It | :47:37. | :47:43. | |
would be a national failure of historic proportions if the Prime | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
Minister comes back from Brussels without having secured protection | :47:48. | :47:55. | |
for jobs and living standards. So we will use every Parliamentary | :47:56. | :47:57. | |
opportunity to ensure this Government is held to account at | :47:58. | :48:05. | |
every stage of the negotiations. Mr Speaker, we all have an interest in | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
ensuring the Prime Minister gets the best deal for this country. To | :48:10. | :48:14. | |
safeguard jobs, living standards, we do need full access to the single | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
market. The Secretary of State for exiting the EU seems to agree on | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
this. He stated in this House on the 24th of January the Government plan | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
is, and I quote, a comprehensive free trade agreement and a | :48:30. | :48:34. | |
comprehensive customs agreement that will deliver the exact same benefits | :48:35. | :48:40. | |
as we have. So that is what they pledged. So will the Prime Minister | :48:41. | :48:45. | |
confirmed today that she intends to deliver a trade and customs | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
agreement with the exact same benefits? The same goes for | :48:50. | :48:57. | |
protecting workers' right and environmental standards, protecting | :48:58. | :49:01. | |
Britain's nations and regions, protecting Britain's financial | :49:02. | :49:04. | |
sector and services and making sure there is no return to a hard border | :49:05. | :49:11. | |
in Northern Ireland. And when, Mr Speaker, does she expect to be able | :49:12. | :49:16. | |
to guarantee the rights of all those EU nationals who live, work and make | :49:17. | :49:21. | |
such a massive and welcome contribution to this country? And | :49:22. | :49:29. | |
for those British and is who live in all parts of the European Union, | :49:30. | :49:32. | |
including guaranteeing that they were a pensions will not be frozen | :49:33. | :49:43. | |
post-Brexit. Brexit would be a huge task for any Government. But so far | :49:44. | :49:47. | |
they seem utterly complacent about the scale of the task ahead. The | :49:48. | :49:52. | |
Government Ministers cannot make up their minds about the real | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
objective. The Foreign Secretary, he is here today, said in October, our | :49:57. | :50:00. | |
policy is having our cake and eating it. How apposite from the Foreign | :50:01. | :50:08. | |
Secretary. Today, the Chancellor on BBC Radio 4 said, we can't have our | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
cake and eat it. Maybe they should get together and talk about it. | :50:14. | :50:19. | |
These at one level Mr Speaker might seem like a flippant exchanges from | :50:20. | :50:22. | |
Ministers, but they do reflect serious differences about Britain's | :50:23. | :50:28. | |
negotiating aims. The Government must speak with a united voice. | :50:29. | :50:34. | |
However, the Foreign Secretary is the same man who promised our | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
National Health Service ?350 million a week once we left the EU. Now he | :50:40. | :50:46. | |
believes that leaving the EU without a deal would be perfectly OK. It | :50:47. | :50:52. | |
would not be perfectly OK, it would damage our economy and people's | :50:53. | :50:57. | |
living standards. Will the Prime Minister confirmed that she rejects | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
such complacency? Labour set out our tests for this Government 's Brexit | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
negotiations, and we will use all means possible to make sure we hold | :51:08. | :51:12. | |
the Government to this word. An full access to the single market, on | :51:13. | :51:15. | |
protecting Britain from being dragged into a race for the bottom, | :51:16. | :51:19. | |
and ensuring our future relationship with the European Union is strong | :51:20. | :51:24. | |
and cooperative. A relationship where we can work together to bring | :51:25. | :51:27. | |
prosperity and peace to our continent. If the Prime Minister can | :51:28. | :51:33. | |
deliver aid Eildon meets our tests, that will be fine, we will backfire. | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
More than ever, Britain needs a Government that will deliver for the | :51:38. | :51:42. | |
whole country, not just a few, and that is the ultimate test of the | :51:43. | :51:45. | |
Brexit deal, that the Prime Minister must now secure. I'm grateful to the | :51:46. | :51:51. | |
right honourable gentleman. course we now enter the formal | :51:52. | :52:11. | |
process of negotiation. It does seem the message he sent today has not | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
got through to the whole of his front bench. I understand of the | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
Cabinet met his shadow international trade Secretary tweeted a photo of | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
me signing the letter, claiming I was signing away our country's | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
future. I'm afraid that's what we see from Labour all too often, | :52:29. | :52:31. | |
talking down Britain, desperate for the negotiations to fail and out of | :52:32. | :52:38. | |
touch with ordinary working people. He's referred to the tests which | :52:39. | :52:42. | |
I'll come onto. He asked me specifically about EU nationals. I | :52:43. | :52:45. | |
have expressly referred to this in the letter to President Tusk and | :52:46. | :52:51. | |
made it clear that I would hope we could deal with this issue of EU | :52:52. | :52:54. | |
nationals here and UK nationals in other member states at as early as | :52:55. | :53:01. | |
possible stage in the negotiations. I believe there is goodwill on both | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
sides to do that. He mentioned the Labour Party tests which they've set | :53:07. | :53:08. | |
out for negotiations. I've been looking at them. There are | :53:09. | :53:13. | |
principles that the government has time and time again said we are | :53:14. | :53:17. | |
determined to meet. He asks will the final deal ensure a strong and | :53:18. | :53:20. | |
collaborative future with the EU. Yes. In my letter to President Tusk | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
that's exactly what I set out our intention is to be. Will it deliver | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
the same benefits we have? We've been clear that we want to get the | :53:31. | :53:34. | |
best possible deal and free and frictionless trade. Will the deal | :53:35. | :53:42. | |
protect national security? Yes. Will the deal deliver for all regions and | :53:43. | :53:47. | |
nations of the UK? We've been very clear that we are taking all nations | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
and regions into account as I said in a letter to President Tusk. As I | :53:52. | :53:56. | |
said earlier in answer to questions in PMQs we expect that as powers are | :53:57. | :54:01. | |
repatriated devolved administrations will see a significant increase in | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
decision-making. His fifth test was Will the deal defend rights and | :54:06. | :54:11. | |
protect from a race to the bottom? We've been very clear that workers' | :54:12. | :54:15. | |
rights will be protected, it is not something up for negotiation under | :54:16. | :54:17. | |
this government. He should perhaps listen to his own Mayor of London | :54:18. | :54:24. | |
who has said" to give credit to the government, I do not think they want | :54:25. | :54:27. | |
to change workers' rights. There has been some anxiety, I have seen no | :54:28. | :54:35. | |
evidence that it is their aspiration or something they want to do". But | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
there is a sixth test the Labour Party has set out which I don't | :54:40. | :54:42. | |
think the honourable gentleman specifically mentioned and perhaps | :54:43. | :54:45. | |
that is because of confusion in the Labour Party because the sixth test | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
is will the deal ensure fair management of migration? What we see | :54:50. | :54:53. | |
on that is a confused picture from the Labour Party. The Shadow Home | :54:54. | :54:57. | |
Secretary says freedom of movement is a worker 's right and the Right | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
Honourable gentleman himself said the following. Labour is not wedded | :55:03. | :55:07. | |
to freedom of movement for EU citizens as a point of principle, | :55:08. | :55:12. | |
but I don't want that to be misinterpreted, nor do we rule it | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
out. Little wonder nobody has any idea what the Labour Party position | :55:17. | :55:17. | |
on that issue is. To all those we should be coming | :55:18. | :55:27. | |
together and exacting the ambition of our country for the future and we | :55:28. | :55:32. | |
should not be talking down the negotiations as he does. We should | :55:33. | :55:36. | |
set out our optimism and determination to get the best | :55:37. | :55:39. | |
possible deal for everybody in the United Kingdom. | :55:40. | :55:50. | |
Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Leader of the Opposition 's remarks were | :55:51. | :55:55. | |
breathtaking. For decades, from Maastricht onwards, he voted with us | :55:56. | :55:59. | |
over and over and over again and today, Mr Speaker, this is a | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
historic day indeed. Can my right honourable friend reaffirmed that at | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
the very heart of this letter lies the democratic decision in the | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
referendum of UK voters, given to them by a sovereign act of | :56:13. | :56:17. | |
Parliament by 6-1 in this house, enabling the British people to | :56:18. | :56:24. | |
regain their birthright to govern themselves, for which people fought | :56:25. | :56:26. | |
and died over generations? The referendum was then followed by a | :56:27. | :56:36. | |
massive majority of 372 in this house on the third reading of the | :56:37. | :56:42. | |
withdrawal bill itself. Trade and cooperation, yes. European | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
government, no. I think I can give my honourable friend the reassurance | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
that he seeks. If I just quote from the very opening paragraph of my | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
letter to President task, the very first line is to reaffirm that on | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
June 23 last year the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
European Union but I go on to say that we do want the European Union | :57:04. | :57:08. | |
to succeed and prosper. The vote was not a rejection of the values that | :57:09. | :57:11. | |
we share as fellow Europeans, instead the referendum was about to | :57:12. | :57:17. | |
restore as we see it, our national self-determination. It is important | :57:18. | :57:28. | |
for everybody to remember on this day that on the referendum for the | :57:29. | :57:32. | |
European Union the people of Scotland voted by 62% to remain in | :57:33. | :57:38. | |
the European Union. Every single local government area in the country | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
voted to remain in the European Union. Mr Speaker, this happened two | :57:43. | :57:48. | |
years after Scottish voters were told that they had to voted no to | :57:49. | :57:54. | |
Scottish independence to remain in the European Union, and yet | :57:55. | :57:59. | |
ironically this is exactly what will happen now, because of the majority | :58:00. | :58:04. | |
elsewhere in the United Kingdom, it will being imposed on the people of | :58:05. | :58:10. | |
Scotland. Last year, Mr Speaker, I have raised repeatedly in this | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
chamber the Prime Minister made a commitment to a UK wide approach and | :58:16. | :58:21. | |
agreement with the governments of Scotland, Wales and Northern | :58:22. | :58:25. | |
Ireland. Since then the Scottish Government has published a | :58:26. | :58:30. | |
compromise suggestion. At its heart a plan that could satisfy people in | :58:31. | :58:35. | |
Scotland and the rest of UK. The Prime Minister could have said that | :58:36. | :58:44. | |
she would try, try to seek an agreement with European partners on | :58:45. | :58:49. | |
the plan, which could have protected Scotland's place in the European | :58:50. | :58:53. | |
market, but she did not. The Prime Minister could have taken the views | :58:54. | :58:58. | |
of the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish governments seriously and she | :58:59. | :59:02. | |
could have reached an agreement before triggering Article 50, as she | :59:03. | :59:08. | |
promised. She did not and she does not... Order! I apologise for | :59:09. | :59:13. | |
interrupting the gentlemen, we cannot have side exchanges taking | :59:14. | :59:15. | |
place while the right honourable gentleman should have the floor. | :59:16. | :59:21. | |
Yes, I'm perfectly capable of seeing whence the disruption hailed, but I | :59:22. | :59:25. | |
hope it will not persist. The honourable gentleman has important | :59:26. | :59:28. | |
responsibilities in the government Whip office and he is normally the | :59:29. | :59:32. | |
embodiment of courtesy, to which I know he will now return. Mr Angus | :59:33. | :59:38. | |
Robertson. Thank you, Mr Speaker. We on these benches has become | :59:39. | :59:41. | |
accustomed to the views of members on the other side of the house being | :59:42. | :59:44. | |
incapable of understanding that the people of Scotland voted to remain | :59:45. | :59:50. | |
in the European Union. The Prime Minister promised, promised... The | :59:51. | :59:57. | |
honourable gentlemen and ladies opposite should understand that we | :59:58. | :00:01. | |
have televisions in Scotland and viewers in Scotland can see this | :00:02. | :00:06. | |
discourtesy from the benches opposite. They don't like to hear it | :00:07. | :00:13. | |
but listen they must. The Prime Minister promised an agreement. | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
There is no agreement. She has broken her word, and as Scotland's | :00:19. | :00:23. | |
members of Parliament, we have been sent here with a mandate to stand up | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
for the people of Scotland, it is a mandate that the Prime Minister does | :00:29. | :00:36. | |
not enjoy. 58 out of 59, 58 out of 59 MPs from Scotland voted against | :00:37. | :00:44. | |
triggering Article 50. The Scottish parliament voted against the | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
triggering of Article 50, the Scottish Government was against the | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
triggering of Article 50 before an agreement, and what has this | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
government done? It has carried on blithely, ignoring the views of | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
people in Scotland and its democratically represented a lack -- | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
democratically elected representatives. Europe is watching | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
and it is watching the way that this government treats parts of the | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
European Union that voted to remain with Europe. Mr Speaker, the UK | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
Government had a mandate to hold a Brexit referendum. We accept that. | :01:18. | :01:24. | |
We accept the result to leave in the rest of the United Kingdom, and in | :01:25. | :01:32. | |
that context... Again, Mr Speaker, the benches opposite do not seem to | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
understand that the United Kingdom is a multinational state with four | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
nations, and two of them voted to stay, and two of them voted to leave | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
and all of the rhetoric from the government benches does not paper | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
over the gaping chasm that there was not unity in this so-called United | :01:52. | :02:01. | |
Kingdom. As Democrats we should all accept that the Scottish Government | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
has a mandate, given that by the people of Scotland, in an election | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
that we should have a choice after the negotiations have concluded. It | :02:10. | :02:15. | |
should not be kicked into the long grass on that democratic choice | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
tonight. Yesterday the Scottish Parliament voted by 69-59 that | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
people and scholars should have that choice. Will the Prime Minister | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
confirm that she will recognise the democratic right of the people to | :02:29. | :02:35. | |
make their own choice after negotiations have concluded? Mr | :02:36. | :02:37. | |
Speaker, the Prime Minister says that she thinks that Brexit will | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
bring unity to the United Kingdom. It will not. On this issue it is not | :02:43. | :02:49. | |
a United Kingdom and the Prime Minister needs to respect the | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
differences across the nations of the United Kingdom. If she does not | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
and she remains intransigent, and if she denies Scotland a choice in our | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
future, she will make Scottish independence inevitable. Calm | :03:03. | :03:17. | |
yourselves! You are an exceptionally over excitable individual, | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
brandishing your order paper in a distinctly eccentric manner. Go and | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
entertain yourself somewhere else if you can't calm yourself. The Prime | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
Minister. The right honourable gentleman has said this afternoon on | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
a number of occasions, as he has on many occasions in this House before, | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
that Scotland voted to remain in the European Union and should therefore | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
be treated differently. My constituency voted to remain in the | :03:43. | :04:00. | |
European Union! The point is that we are one United Kingdom. It was a | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
vote of the whole of the united Kingdom. What I hear from people | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
outside of this chamber, and by the way the right honourable gentleman | :04:11. | :04:16. | |
seems to forget that something like 400,000 SNP supporters voted to | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
leave the European Union. What I hear from people outside this | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
chamber, from individuals and businesses alike, whether they voted | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
to remain or to leave, is that the vote, having been taken, the | :04:31. | :04:32. | |
decision having been given to people, of the United Kingdom that | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
we should now respect that vote and get on with the job of delivering | :04:38. | :04:44. | |
for everybody across the whole of the United Kingdom. He refers to the | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
issue of Scottish independence and its impact on membership of the | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
European Union. It is the case, and the European union has reinforced | :04:55. | :05:02. | |
the Barroso doctrine, that is Scotland were to... They seem to | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
find it amusing but just to remind everybody that that is the doctrine | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
that if Scotland were to become depends on the United Kingdom and if | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
they had voted for independence in 2016 that they would have ceased to | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
be a member of the European Union. We will be ensuring that the | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
substance of the deal that we achieve, the substance of the deal | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
that we achieve, and I am interested in the outcomes of this deal, will | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
be the best possible deal for the people of the whole of the United | :05:35. | :05:41. | |
Kingdom. He talks about democratic representation and democratic | :05:42. | :05:43. | |
responsibility. Perhaps the Scottish Government might like to consider | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
White has not passed a single piece of legislation in Holyrood in the | :05:47. | :05:54. | |
past year. -- why the Scottish Government has not passed a single | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
piece of legislation... I especially welcome that we want a special | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
relationship with the EU, based on friendship and trade and many other | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
collaborations once we are an independent country again. Would my | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
right honourable friend confirm that the UK Government is offering tariff | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
free trade with no new barriers to all of our partners in Europe, which | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
must make enormous sense for them? My right honourable friend is | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
absolutely right, we want to see that tariff free trade on a | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
reciprocal basis with the other countries in the European union. I | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
think it makes sense and we already operate on the same basis because we | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
operate under the same rules and regulations and I think we should | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
look to have that maxim of free trade between the two countries. I | :06:40. | :06:46. | |
thank the Prime Minister for her statement and for advance sight of | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
it but today the Prime Minister is not an the will of the people, she | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
is at best interpreting that will, choosing a hard Brexit outside the | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
single market, that was never on the ballot paper. This day of all days, | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
the Liberal Democrats will not roll over, as the official opposition has | :07:05. | :07:12. | |
done. Our children and our grandchildren will judge all of us | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
for our actions during these times. I am determined that I will look my | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
children in the eye and be able to say that I did everything to prevent | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
this calamity that the Prime Minister has today chosen. We now | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
face an unknown deal that will shape our country for generations. The | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
deal will be signed off by someone and the only question is who. Will | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
it be the politicians or should it be the people? Surely the Prime | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
Minister will agree with me that the people should have the final say? I | :07:42. | :07:49. | |
say to the right honourable gentleman, can I gently remind him | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
that he talks about us enacting the decision of the referendum, of | :07:54. | :07:55. | |
course, we're acting the decision that was taken by the people of the | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
United Kingdom enough referendum that I might remind him that it is | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
not that long ago that the Liberal Democrat party wanted a referendum | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
on this and we gave it to the man we are abiding by it. The Prime | :08:09. | :08:16. | |
Minister has made it very clear that immigration is her number one | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
priority. As a result of that, we cannot accept the free movement of | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
people and we cannot remain a member of the single market. But, Mr | :08:25. | :08:30. | |
Speaker, that may change in the next two years, who knows what might | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
happen? The EU may move away from that principle of the free movement | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
of people. In that event, could the Prime Minister give an assurance | :08:41. | :08:43. | |
that she has not turned her back on membership of the single market? It | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
is what British business once and it would stay off Nicola Sturgeon and | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
the SNP is outrageous demands for a second referendum, and... And these | :08:55. | :09:08. | |
are serious matters that this United Kingdom faces. It would provide the | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
solution to Northern Ireland as we now leave the European Union. Can I | :09:14. | :09:20. | |
just gently say to my honourable friend she started her question by | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
saying that immigration was the number one priority. What we have | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
done is said that we want a comprehensive package which does | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
enable us to control immigration and set our own rules on immigration but | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
also has exactly the sort of free access to the single market that I | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
think my honourable friend is talking about and businesses want to | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
see and I believe that we can achieve that agreement and we should | :09:44. | :09:46. | |
be optimistic and ambitious in achieving that agreement. There are | :09:47. | :09:55. | |
all the freedoms that the European Unions leaders will quote in | :09:56. | :09:57. | |
relation to full membership of the single market, such as the | :09:58. | :09:59. | |
jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice and I think people voted | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
to stop that jurisdiction last year and what matters to me is the | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
outcome, not the structure by which we achieve that outcome, but will we | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
have the free and frictionless tariff free access to the single | :10:12. | :10:14. | |
market, and that is what we want to achieve and it is what we are | :10:15. | :10:15. | |
working for. Can I thank the Prime Minister for | :10:16. | :10:23. | |
her statement and congratulate her government on delivering on the will | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
of the people of the United Kingdom and wish her well and her government | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
in the negotiations that lie ahead. We are convinced that she is the | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
right leader of our country for these challenges. And isn't the | :10:39. | :10:47. | |
fundamental point this: that this United Kingdom, this union is far | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
more important for the economic prosperity of all our people than | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
the European Union? And can I also commend her for putting in article | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
five in the principles she put out, Northern Ireland, the relationship | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
of the Republic, and the way that has put forward. She will have our | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
support in the coming months and years in this house to make that a | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
reality. I thank the right honourable gentleman for his | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
comments, particularly that we have recognised the particular | :11:22. | :11:24. | |
circumstances of Northern Ireland and its relationship because of the | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
land border with the Republic of Ireland. I recognised that in the | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
letter to President Tusk. Can I agree with him when he says the most | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
important union economically and for this United Kingdom in other ways is | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
the United Kingdom. It is the case that for individual constituent | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
parts it is the trading within the single market of the United Kingdom | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
is far more important than trading with the European Union. Can I | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
commend my right honourable friend for her constructive, positive and | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
realistic tone she has set today with her statement and the letter to | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
Donald Tusk. Can I also can't graduate her and her government for | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
the use of the last nine months in order to prepare us for this point | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
making up for the lack of preparation by the last | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
administration for this moment. And can I also urge on herbal | :12:18. | :12:20. | |
preparation that is implicit in this letter, that if it is impossible to | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
get a deal home, that whilst that will be coped with by the United | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
Kingdom and the European Union as it must be, that we are in the position | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
to cope with it, should that happen. I thank my right honourable friend | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
and it is important, we are approaching this in a realistic and | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
pragmatic way, as he says. It is absolutely right of course | :12:46. | :12:48. | |
government will be working across all departments to ensure that we | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
have preparations in place whatever the outcome be. As I made clear in | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
my letter to President Tusk, while both the European Union and the UK | :12:58. | :13:00. | |
could cope with no agreement, that would not be the ideal situation, it | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
is not what we would be working for and we should actively be working to | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
get the right deal for both sides. Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister is | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
right to say in her statement that this eventual deal must work for the | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
48% as well as the 52%, because whether we were Remainers or levers | :13:20. | :13:22. | |
we are in the same country together after Brexit. Can I emphasise to her | :13:23. | :13:30. | |
that national unity must be earned and not just asserted. And it must | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
be shown in deeds and not just in words. And we are a long, long way | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
away from it and I think she will agree with that. As she reflects on | :13:40. | :13:45. | |
the statement, can she say what she thinks she needs to do differently | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
in the next 24 months to achieve that national unity which, frankly, | :13:50. | :13:55. | |
eludes us at the moment. I think the most important thing that we can do, | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
to things that we will be doing over the next 24 months as a government, | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
one is putting in place our plan for Britain which is about ensuring that | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
we see the United Kingdom where the economy works for everyone, where we | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
see a much fairer society, where success is based on merit, not | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
privilege. That's what is driving this government and that's what we | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
will put into place domestic league. Also for the unity of the UK the | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
most important relation to the negotiations with Europe is to get | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
the best possible deal in terms of cooperation on security but also in | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
terms of the free trade arrangement which will bring prosperity to our | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
economy. Can I thank and congratulate my right honourable | :14:36. | :14:38. | |
friend for resolutely sticking to her promise to the UK people to | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
trigger Article 50. There will be celebrations all around the country, | :14:44. | :14:49. | |
nowhere more so than coastal communities where the health and | :14:50. | :14:52. | |
welfare of our fishing grounds has been trashed by the common fisheries | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
policy. In order to fully re-establish our national control we | :14:58. | :15:04. | |
will have to aggregate our meat membership of the London Convention | :15:05. | :15:07. | |
on fisheries 1964 and that requires two years notice, as my right | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
honourable friend intend to trigger that soon? My right honourable | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
friend has always had an interest in the impact of common fisheries and | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
it is an issue he has looked at. We are looking closely at the | :15:23. | :15:24. | |
convention and what needs to be done. He is right it would require | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
two years. Of course we expect to conclude the deal with the European | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
Union within two years but there will be then periods of | :15:34. | :15:36. | |
implementation periods beyond that period of time but we would hope to | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
be able to say something about the fisheries convention soon. There are | :15:40. | :15:46. | |
many across this house who are very aware of the sheer scale and | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
complexity of the negotiations that will face our team and very | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
conscious of the importance of getting those right. It has never | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
been more true that the devil will be in the detail. As that detail | :16:00. | :16:02. | |
emerges, will the Prime Minister ensure that everybody in her teens | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
stops the practice which has been so prevalent of claiming that every | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
awkward question is evidence of a desire to overturn the will of the | :16:12. | :16:18. | |
British people? The right honourable lady is absolutely right that these | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
will be very complex negotiations and I think it was right to wait for | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
the nine months that we have done in order to invoke article 57 we have | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
been able to do a considerable amount of preparation. There will be | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
technical discussions to take place as well as the higher level | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
discussions, and I can assure the right honourable lady that we | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
consistently ask ourselves difficult questions to ensure that we are | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
testing every approach that we put forward so that we get the best | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
possible deal. May I reassure my right honourable friend that Donald | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
Tusk has indeed received the letter, he tweeted about it one minute | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
earlier which shows the keenness of our team. May I also told the Prime | :17:03. | :17:10. | |
Minister that Donald Tusk has said that he is missing us already but | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
that he recognises it is in the European Union's interest as well as | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
that of the United Kingdom that we achieve an agreement that will | :17:21. | :17:23. | |
benefit both sides in this negotiation. This is absolutely | :17:24. | :17:32. | |
right. I'm pleased to hear that President Tusk has taken the view. | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
This is not just about the United Kingdom for the future, it is about | :17:37. | :17:39. | |
the European Union for the future and about the relationship that we | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
will have with them. As I said in the letter we wanted deeper and | :17:44. | :17:46. | |
special partnership to continue in the future. The Prime Minister has | :17:47. | :17:55. | |
the goodwill of the country as she seeks a new relationship with our | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
European allies. Will she confirmed that enshrines posing EU directives | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
and regulations into UK law we don't transpose all the rulings of the | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
ECJ. We do not have the EU Charter of fundamental rights imposed given | :18:10. | :18:12. | |
that we have long-standing assurances that it will not have | :18:13. | :18:18. | |
legal force in this country. I would say to the honourable gentleman that | :18:19. | :18:21. | |
we will be publishing the great repeal Bill tomorrow which will make | :18:22. | :18:28. | |
clearer how we are going to transpose the relevant judgments of | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
the European Court of justice. This government has taken a very clear | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
position that we don't think that the European Charter of fundamental | :18:38. | :18:40. | |
human rights is something that is applicable. In her letter to | :18:41. | :18:50. | |
President Tusk, the Prime Minister said in January, we are leaving the | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
European Union, we are not leaving Europe. She will know that 16.1 | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
million people last June voted to do neither. But the result is as it is | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
an needs to be honoured. Could my right honourable friend say how she | :19:05. | :19:07. | |
will keep Parliament fully engaged, this Parliament, through that | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
process, and also that she will do her utmost to secure a trade deal we | :19:11. | :19:17. | |
can all support and not listen to the siren voices who seem to think | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
that no deal is a good option? I'm very happy to give the reassurance | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
to my right honourable friend. I want to secure a really good trade | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
deal for the United Kingdom. I also want to secure trade deals with | :19:30. | :19:32. | |
countries around the rest of the world. We do want to ensure and we | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
start off from a good position because we are operating on the same | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
rules and regulations as the European Union, that we get that | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
really good trade deal with the EU. There will be significant | :19:46. | :19:47. | |
opportunities for this house and Parliament to consider opportunities | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
as we go through the next two years. The great repeal bill itself will be | :19:53. | :19:55. | |
a matter foot of and consideration in this house. There will also be | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
some subsequent pieces of legislation required as a result of | :20:01. | :20:03. | |
the decision to leave the European Union which will come before this | :20:04. | :20:07. | |
house and we will make every effort to keep this house informed as we go | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
through. I've always said we will be clear and give clarity were able to | :20:12. | :20:17. | |
do so. The Prime Minister will no doubt recall the referendum speech | :20:18. | :20:24. | |
she made last April in which she said "The big question is whether in | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
the event of Brexit we would be able to negotiate a new free trade | :20:28. | :20:34. | |
agreement with the EU and on what terms". Given that the European | :20:35. | :20:37. | |
Union appears to want to start the negotiations by talking only about | :20:38. | :20:44. | |
money, given that there are about 18 months ago, how is the Prime | :20:45. | :20:47. | |
Minister going to ensure that there is sufficient time to reach that | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
agreement to provide tariff and barrier free trade and access to the | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
European market for our services that she has promised Britain's | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
businesses that she will bring back from the negotiations? Of course we | :21:01. | :21:08. | |
don't yet know how the European Council will choose to friend the | :21:09. | :21:10. | |
negotiations. I will be meeting on the 29th of April to determine that. | :21:11. | :21:16. | |
There will be the two parts to the work going forward. One is the | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
process of withdrawal and the terms of withdrawal and the other is what | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
the future relationship will be. It's clear in Article 50 that the | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
former should be done in the context of the latter. So I think it is not | :21:31. | :21:33. | |
just reasonable but entirely right and proper that we look at those two | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
issues alongside each other. As I've said in answer to other questions, | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
the point about the comprehensive free trade agreement is that we will | :21:42. | :21:47. | |
not be operating as a third party such as Canada for example when it | :21:48. | :21:50. | |
started its negotiations with the European Union. We already operate | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
on the same basis and already have that free trade between the European | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
Union and the United Kingdom. I believe that sets us on a better | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
basis on which to start those negotiations and that it will be | :22:03. | :22:04. | |
possible to get that comprehensive free trade agreement. I thank the | :22:05. | :22:11. | |
Prime Minister on her handling of the triggering of Article 50 and | :22:12. | :22:14. | |
respecting the wishes of the British electorate at the referendum. Can I | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
suggest there's another reason to make sure that guaranteeing the | :22:19. | :22:20. | |
rights of EU nationals both living here and on the continent should be | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
a very high priority. Not only is it the right thing to do and it | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
establishes good intent but it would be clear to the world, should there | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
be no agreement, that actually that would not be our fault, we would not | :22:35. | :22:40. | |
be using EU nationals as bargaining chips? Well, I'm very clear in the | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
letter I have sent to President Tusk that we intend to work on the rights | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
of EU nationals and UK nationals living in the EU to be undertaken to | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
be part of the negotiations at an early stage. As I've said before I | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
genuinely believe there is goodwill to do that and I hope that we will | :22:59. | :23:04. | |
be able to achieve that at an early stage of negotiations and give | :23:05. | :23:07. | |
reassurance to both EU citizens living here and UK citizens living | :23:08. | :23:10. | |
in the European Union of their future. The last Prime Minister did | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
not want this day to come, although it did follow from many decisions he | :23:17. | :23:22. | |
took over many years. And he will be remembered as the Prime Minister who | :23:23. | :23:24. | |
unintentionally let Britain out of Europe. This Prime Minister, I know, | :23:25. | :23:31. | |
does not want to see the break-up of the United Kingdom, but she will | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
also note that holding us together requires more than just the rhetoric | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
of unity. So can she say what she will do in both the content and | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
style of her negotiations not to fuel further division, not to play | :23:46. | :23:51. | |
into the hands of others, but to ensure voices from all over the | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
country are genuinely heard in this debate so that she does not become a | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
Prime Minister who unintentionally leads the break-up of Britain. Can I | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
first of all say to the right honourable lady, she referred to the | :24:06. | :24:08. | |
decision on the referendum as one of leaving Europe, it is leaving the | :24:09. | :24:11. | |
European Union, it is not leaving Europe. We want at deep and special | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
partnership with the European Union, and we will continue to be part of | :24:18. | :24:20. | |
Europe and work with our friends and allies in Europe. As we go ahead we | :24:21. | :24:27. | |
will continue to undertake discussions with not just the | :24:28. | :24:30. | |
devolved administrations in the United Kingdom but with businesses | :24:31. | :24:33. | |
across the United Kingdom, with other organisations across the UK, | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
government departments are speaking with a whole range of sectors to | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
ensure that all views and considerations are taken into | :24:44. | :24:46. | |
account as we go forward in the negotiations. We want to make sure | :24:47. | :24:49. | |
that we fully understand the concerns and interests people have | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
and that's why we've already started talking widely with not just the | :24:54. | :24:56. | |
devolved administrations but also others across the United Kingdom to | :24:57. | :24:59. | |
ensure that we do get those views and take them into account. | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
Can I congratulate my right honourable friend on her resolve in | :25:06. | :25:11. | |
carrying forward the Democratic out crumb of the referendum and no | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
matter what the differences are crosses House I can assure her that | :25:16. | :25:18. | |
every single member of this House would wish her well for the | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
negotiations ahead. No matter how those negotiations progress over the | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
coming months and years, can she confirm that the United Kingdom will | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
continue to prioritise Corporation and the exchange of information with | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
the other European countries, to ensure that our internal and | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
external security is not compromised in any way whatsoever. I am happy to | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
give my right honourable friend that assurance. The security cooperation | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
that we have, the cooperation we have on justice and home affairs | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
matters, is very important to us as well as the member states of the | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
European Union. It is something I worked closely on as Home Secretary | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
and I can assure her that we will be looking to ensure that corporation | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
can continue. Now, as we look at the challenges we face, across the | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
globe, now is not the time for less Corporation, now is the time to | :26:14. | :26:15. | |
ensure that we continue to cooperate and build on that. Could I remind | :26:16. | :26:25. | |
the Prime Minister that Northern Ireland voted 56% to remain? My own | :26:26. | :26:31. | |
constituency voted almost 70% and could I, with respect, Prime | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
Minister, warn you about the Trojan horse being pushed out to you in the | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
form of honey words from the bench behind me. The Prime Minister says | :26:41. | :26:47. | |
that the interests of all nations and regions of the UK have to be | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
taken into account in the negotiations. What measures has she | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
been able to put into place, or does she intend to put into place, to | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
ensure that the Northern Ireland views, needs and special | :27:01. | :27:03. | |
circumstances are taken into account in these negotiations going forward? | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
Can I thank the honourable gentleman for his question and the point he | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
made about the boat in Northern Ireland is one that I was attempting | :27:11. | :27:22. | |
to show earlier, which is that different parts of the United | :27:23. | :27:24. | |
Kingdom voted in different ways, some voted to leave and some to | :27:25. | :27:27. | |
remain. The overall result of the referendum from the United Kingdom | :27:28. | :27:29. | |
was that we should leave the European Union and it is what we | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
will be doing. We have been maintaining contact with the | :27:33. | :27:34. | |
Northern Ireland executive up until the point at which the executive | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
ceased to exist and the election was taking place. We have been | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
continuing to talk to political parties in Northern Ireland on this | :27:44. | :27:50. | |
issue. The best result to ensure the voice of the devolved administration | :27:51. | :27:53. | |
can be heard in these negotiations is for the parties to come together | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
and for us to see a strong devolved government that will provide us with | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
that dealer Kutcher. Since the vote the economic news has confounded | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
expectations. Economists for free trade have told us how WTO rules | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
with the right policies can cut consumer prices and raise GDP and we | :28:12. | :28:19. | |
have heard every reason to believe that we will secure the right trade | :28:20. | :28:22. | |
deal for us and we will liberate trade right around the world. Will | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
the Prime Minister agree with me that the time for project fee is | :28:27. | :28:35. | |
over? My honourable right -- my honourable friend is right. | :28:36. | :28:37. | |
Obviously there were predictions of what happened to the economy of the | :28:38. | :28:40. | |
United Kingdom voted to leave and his predictions have not proved to | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
be correct and we see a strong economy. As we go forward we want to | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
build on that we want to ensure we get those comprehensive trade | :28:49. | :28:51. | |
agreements. I believe a comprehensive free trade agreement | :28:52. | :28:54. | |
with the European Union should be our aim and it is what we will be | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
working for and we will also be looking to promote trade around the | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
rest of the world, as my honourable friend says, it is I think in the | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
interests of everybody, not just the UK or the EU but also countries | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
around the world that we stand up for the benefits of free trade and | :29:11. | :29:18. | |
we promote it around the world. As has been said the Prime Minister | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
said in her statement she was taking due account of the specific interest | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
in every nation and region of the UK. Leading councils in Yorkshire | :29:28. | :29:34. | |
have had no contact whatsoever from the government. Can the Prime | :29:35. | :29:40. | |
Minister please work now with local government and local enterprise | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
boards in all English regions to analyse the effect on jobs and trade | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
and investment so negotiations can achieve, as was promised, not just | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
an aspiration by the Secretary of State for Brexit but the exact same | :29:56. | :29:58. | |
benefits, as we have for membership of the single market in the customs | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
union. She sidestepped the question from the Leader of the Opposition. | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
Can I ask again, does she believe the English regions can get the | :30:07. | :30:12. | |
exact same benefits as before? The Right Honourable Lady has asked a | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
number of questions there. I am very clear that we want to ensure that we | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
get that free trade agreement, that comprehensive free trade agreement, | :30:22. | :30:24. | |
which does give our businesses the benefits that they have had as | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
members of the European Union. In relation to local authorities and | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
Maher is my right honourable friend is talking to local Mayers and I had | :30:34. | :30:47. | |
a roundtable of local authorities in Birmingham and we spoke to them so | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
we're listening to voices across the regions. Like millions of others in | :30:51. | :30:56. | |
the United Kingdom, I am proud of the European Union and the | :30:57. | :30:59. | |
contribution the United Kingdom has made to the European Union during my | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
political lifetime, and I am a little sad about today, but I do | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
stand unequivocably with the Prime Minister as she calls for a united | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
approach to a new future. Does my right honourable friend therefore | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
agree with me that in order to make that national endeavour meaningful | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
that her door and the door of her ministers should always be open to | :31:24. | :31:30. | |
all parties in the House and all sides in this discussion because for | :31:31. | :31:33. | |
a new script to be written for the European Union and the United | :31:34. | :31:36. | |
Kingdom 's relationship, it should be written as much by those who | :31:37. | :31:39. | |
value the European Union as those who have campaigned to leave it? I | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
thank my right honourable friend for his question. As I stayed in my | :31:46. | :31:50. | |
statement earlier there will be those who are celebrated and those | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
who are sad and disappointed about the decision that has been taken | :31:55. | :31:57. | |
back can I reassure him that as we move forward and we ensure we are | :31:58. | :32:00. | |
getting the best possible arrangements for the future that we | :32:01. | :32:03. | |
can I do want to listen and ministers do want to listen to all | :32:04. | :32:09. | |
voices in this House, to those who were ardent on both sides of the | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
campaign and as I just indicated we are listening to all parts of the | :32:16. | :32:22. | |
United Kingdom. Today is the day that The Right Honourable member for | :32:23. | :32:25. | |
Maidenhead has become the first Prime Minister in recent history to | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
have to be reminded that Scotland is a country, not a constituency of | :32:31. | :32:33. | |
England. The Prime Minister refused to reply... The Prime Minister | :32:34. | :32:42. | |
refused to reply to the question of whether there had been an economic | :32:43. | :32:45. | |
assessment of the impact of leaving the EU with no deal. Has there been | :32:46. | :32:52. | |
such an assessment? Will she publish it at, and if that hasn't been hard | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
as the former Home Secretary know it is perfectly OK? Can I said The | :32:57. | :33:01. | |
Right Honourable gentleman I am well aware that Scotland is a constituent | :33:02. | :33:08. | |
nation of the United Kingdom. The point is a very simple one and it | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
was made from the bench behind him earlier, which is that different | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
parts of the United Kingdom voted in different ways. Different | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
constituencies voted different ways and Scotland Wales and Northern | :33:23. | :33:25. | |
Ireland voted in different ways. Wales voted to leave Scotland and | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
Northern Ireland voted to remain, but the overall response of the | :33:30. | :33:35. | |
United Kingdom was a vote to leave the European Union and that is what | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
we are putting into place. I say to The Right Honourable gentleman, that | :33:42. | :33:44. | |
we are looking at the arrangements that need to be put in place | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
whatever the impact and whatever the decision that is taken at the end | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
but crucially what I am very clear about, and I am clearing my lesson | :33:55. | :33:59. | |
to -- letter to President Tusk, that we should work to get that | :34:00. | :34:02. | |
comprehensive free trade agreement so we are not in a position of | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
having no deal but we have a deal to the benefit of everyone in the UK, | :34:07. | :34:13. | |
including the people of Scotland. Could I congratulate the Prime | :34:14. | :34:16. | |
Minister on the cool and constructive clarity and conviction | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
she has brought to this momentous period in British politics and her | :34:21. | :34:23. | |
commitment to to negotiate on behalf of everyone in this country, the 48 | :34:24. | :34:29. | |
as well as the 52. Does she agree that we must almost -- also double | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
our commitment to domestic reform, the Conservative programme that is | :34:35. | :34:37. | |
so key to skills and infrastructure and our post Brexit prosperity and | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
the union that we want to succeed. She said to Donald Tusk that the | :34:44. | :34:46. | |
task is momentous but it should be beyond us. Does she agree that that | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
applies to the members of the House and direct the shrill voices of | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
nationalism so that we pull together and not a part. My honourable friend | :34:57. | :35:04. | |
is absolutely right. The question that people responded to in the | :35:05. | :35:07. | |
referendum was about leaving the European Union but I believe that | :35:08. | :35:09. | |
the vote to leave was also a vote for change in this country, for | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
wider change in this country. That is why it is so important that we | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
put forward and deliver on our plan for Britain, for the stronger and | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
fairer society, a country that works for everyone, and it is important | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
right now that we do pull together and we do recognise that the task we | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
have ahead is about ensuring we get the right result for the whole of | :35:34. | :35:39. | |
the United Kingdom. I think regardless of how people voted in | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
the referendum I suspect there is an even bigger majority today for all | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
of us to get on and get the best we possibly can. Can I asked the Prime | :35:49. | :35:51. | |
Minister, because many businesses are worried, that in the triggering | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
of Article 50 they feel that the clock is ticking and everything | :35:57. | :35:59. | |
might need to be resolved within two years. She can she reassure those | :36:00. | :36:02. | |
businesses that what we will have end of the two years is the | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
headlines, that there will have to be transitional agreements to ensure | :36:09. | :36:10. | |
the Devil in the detail is explored and this House can discuss about and | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
we get it right for the businesses and the rest of Britain? The Right | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
Honourable lady is right. Of course businesses want the certainty of | :36:20. | :36:22. | |
knowing where they will stand so they can plan for the future. That | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
is why I think two things are important, that we bring this into | :36:27. | :36:32. | |
law through the UK repeal bill so that people know that every role | :36:33. | :36:35. | |
does still apply and they know where they stand. It is also right that it | :36:36. | :36:40. | |
is a tight timetable to get the agreement and there will need to be | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
implementation periods so that we can ensure it is now put into | :36:45. | :36:48. | |
practice in the way that makes practical sense for businesses and | :36:49. | :36:55. | |
governments. Will the Prime Minister reaffirm that the defence of Europe | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
does not depend upon the EU, but upon the deterrent effect of article | :37:01. | :37:06. | |
five of the Nato treaty, which means that an attack on any European Nato | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
member will involve the United States in its defence from the first | :37:12. | :37:18. | |
hour of the first day, but in a spirit of unity will she join with | :37:19. | :37:23. | |
me in congratulating two statesman on opposite sides of the Brexit | :37:24. | :37:28. | |
debate, Sir John Major and Lord Tebbit of Chingford who may not | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
share the same views on Europe but whose share the same birthday today. | :37:32. | :37:41. | |
I am very happy to wish a happy birthday to members of the | :37:42. | :37:47. | |
Conservative Party and do so indeed. Can I say to my honourable friend | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
that he has obviously raised the important issue of Nato, the bedrock | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
of our security and defence under article five lies at the heart of | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
that security and defence. We remain, as I indicated in answer to | :38:00. | :38:08. | |
my honourable friend, the member for Louth and Horncastle earlier, that | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
Nato is that important bedrock of our security and defence and we will | :38:14. | :38:16. | |
continue to contribute to Nato in the way we have done in the past and | :38:17. | :38:20. | |
continue to encourage others to ensure that Nato is able to provide | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
that security into the future as it has done in the past. I would remind | :38:25. | :38:31. | |
the Prime Minister that defence is about more than weapons, it is about | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
values and collective solidarity as well and there are two kinds of | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
futures stemming from the process that is triggered today. The first | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
is that we spend two years desperately trying to secure what we | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
have already come in the secretary of States words, the exact same | :38:50. | :38:52. | |
benefits that we have, while gaining control of immigration, which may | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
make little difference to the numbers, as ministers have | :38:57. | :38:59. | |
suggested, in which case people will ask | :39:00. | :39:26. | |
what is the point? Or there is another future where we crash out | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
without an agreement, defaulting to WTO rules, with all that would mean | :39:31. | :39:32. | |
for industry, agriculture and services. In which case people will | :39:33. | :39:34. | |
ask, what is the price? Which future does she think is the more likely? | :39:35. | :39:37. | |
What's the point? Or what the price? I have to say to The Right | :39:38. | :39:40. | |
Honourable gentleman that I think is throwing the question in the wrong | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
way. When people voted to leave the European Union I believe that we | :39:44. | :39:45. | |
still want to have that good trading relationship with the European Union | :39:46. | :39:47. | |
but what people were overwhelmingly voting for was to be able to know | :39:48. | :39:50. | |
that the UK Government was in control of key decisions which | :39:51. | :39:53. | |
previously had been taken in the EU institutions. Yes, the issue of | :39:54. | :39:55. | |
immigration laws was a part of that and about the spending of our budget | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
was also part of it but also the relationship of UK courts to | :40:00. | :40:03. | |
decisions being taken here in this Parliament and our ability to set | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
our own laws and for those laws to be determined by our courts was | :40:08. | :40:10. | |
underlying the vote that people took. This was not just a question | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
about money, it was about values and the value of that | :40:15. | :40:15. | |
self-determination. Can I join others in commending the | :40:16. | :40:23. | |
Prime Minister on what I think is a clear, concise and very generous | :40:24. | :40:28. | |
approach to negotiations in her statement today and her letter to | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
President Tusk. She will know the reason we have a strong economy | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
currently is partly due to decisions of the previous government and | :40:37. | :40:39. | |
partly because nothing has changed other than the sharp appreciation in | :40:40. | :40:45. | |
our currency. As we going to a period of really enhanced risk and | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
uncertainty for our country, process which I think she will lead us | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
admirably through, does she not agree it is time to start talking | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
facts and sense to the British people rather than rhetoric and | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
ideology? And in particular rejecting the idea that no deal and | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
a reliance on WTO rules would somehow be OK. Like me I'm sure she | :41:07. | :41:13. | |
has seen recent research from the research council that suggests that | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
the WTO deal, despite all the trade deals we want to sign with China and | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
Brazil and India and America would represent a loss of trade of a | :41:22. | :41:28. | |
quarter to the British economy. We cannot do that to this country. I | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
hope she will tell us we are not going to do that to this country. | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
Can we start talking about trusting experts are little bit more? Well my | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
honourable friend is absolutely right that the long-term economic | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
plan which was put in by the Conservative led government and on | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
which we all stood at the last election is the plan that has | :41:50. | :41:52. | |
enabled our economy to have the strength that is necessary and we | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
are pleased that we are able to maintain and build on that strength | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
in our economy. She talks about the WTO arrangements. What I say in the | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
letter to President Tusk is very clear, but if we leave without an | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
agreement, the default position is that we would have to trade on World | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
Trade Organisation terms. In this scenario the UK and EU would of | :42:15. | :42:17. | |
course cope with the change but is not the outcome that either side | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
should seek. We must therefore work hard to avoid that outcome. I'm | :42:24. | :42:28. | |
clear we want the comprehensive free trade agreement with the European | :42:29. | :42:30. | |
Union and that's what we'll be working for. On what is a genuinely | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
historic day for our country can I pay tribute to the Prime Minister | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
and indeed to the Brexit ministers for their determination and | :42:42. | :42:44. | |
dedication to get to this stage today to implement the will of the | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
British people. Would she agree with me that there is one area that we | :42:49. | :42:51. | |
should be able to move forward very quickly on in negotiations and that | :42:52. | :42:57. | |
is getting control of our fishing grounds back. I'd my right | :42:58. | :43:08. | |
honourable friend, the former Environment Secretary, did raise the | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
question of the London fisheries convention which we are looking at | :43:14. | :43:16. | |
and hope to be able to say something soon. | :43:17. | :43:18. | |
As we look at a whole raft in the negotiations that will be taking | :43:19. | :43:25. | |
place, we will be looking at policies that affect agriculture and | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
fisheries here in the United Kingdom and the other issues on Security and | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
crime. But we will be looking particularly at the London fisheries | :43:36. | :43:42. | |
convention in due course. The Prime Minister's letter to President Tusk | :43:43. | :43:45. | |
is not one I ever hope to read but having done so I welcome the eight | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
principles. But does the Prime Minister agree that to bring those | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
to fruition it would be very helpful to include all of us in this | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
process? Because of course even the most ardent pro-European is actually | :44:00. | :44:06. | |
also incredibly ambitious about this country. I'm very happy to give that | :44:07. | :44:11. | |
reassurance to my honourable friend. I think that what I hope we will see | :44:12. | :44:17. | |
and is indicated we will see, people who were previously on both sides of | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
this argument about leaving the European Union actually coming | :44:22. | :44:24. | |
together with that ambition for the future and it's important we take | :44:25. | :44:27. | |
all views into account as we develop that. In her letter and again in her | :44:28. | :44:34. | |
statement today she has made clear that she believes it will be | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
necessary to agree the terms of the divorce alongside the details of our | :44:40. | :44:42. | |
future relationship with the European Union. If the other 27 | :44:43. | :44:48. | |
comeback in their reply and say they want to agree the terms of the | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
divorce first including citizenship rights, our liabilities and the | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
issue of orders, particularly Northern Ireland, how will she | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
respond? The question will be that we will go into a negotiation with | :45:03. | :45:06. | |
the European Union about the best way in which we take things forward. | :45:07. | :45:09. | |
I have been putting forward the case, as have other ministers that I | :45:10. | :45:15. | |
think it makes sense for everybody from a pragmatic point of view to | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
ensure that at the end of the two years we have both of these | :45:20. | :45:22. | |
decisions concluded. The withdrawal process and the future relationship. | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
And that's because I don't think it's in anybody's interest for the | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
UK to agree to withdraw to go on to one set of arrangements and then | :45:33. | :45:34. | |
negotiate another set of arrangements which come into place | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
at a later date. I think it makes much better sense for individuals, | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
for businesses and for governments for us to be able to conclude those | :45:43. | :45:45. | |
two parts of the negotiation at the same time. Some members on both | :45:46. | :45:53. | |
sides of this house has been working all their political career to | :45:54. | :46:00. | |
extract the United Kingdom from the European superstate. Sometimes we | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
were isolated, sometimes we were ignored and sometimes we were | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
insulted. But thanks to the British people today we are leaving the | :46:10. | :46:14. | |
European Union. In the past when there has been a major change in our | :46:15. | :46:19. | |
relationship with Europe it has happened through conflict, bloodshed | :46:20. | :46:25. | |
and turmoil. Will the Prime Minister agree with me that the whole country | :46:26. | :46:32. | |
can celebrate the fact that this change is happening peacefully and | :46:33. | :46:38. | |
democratically? I'm very happy to endorse that and I think it is | :46:39. | :46:44. | |
attributed to the way in which we in the UK have approached this issue. | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
Also the way in which our European partners have been willing to | :46:50. | :46:52. | |
approach it and I think will be willing to approach it for the | :46:53. | :46:55. | |
future. I think the eyes of the world will be on us as we go through | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
this negotiation to see precisely how we conduct it and I wanted to be | :47:00. | :47:11. | |
positively and respectfully. After the Brexit deal has been negotiated | :47:12. | :47:14. | |
the European Union Parliament and every other member state in the | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
European Union will have a say on whether to accept the deal. Can the | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
Prime Minister not see that to deny the people of Scotland a say at the | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
same time would show at a contempt for democracy in Scotland? We've | :47:29. | :47:36. | |
been very clear that there will be a vote in this Parliament when we come | :47:37. | :47:42. | |
back with a deal from the European Union, that will be in both houses | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
of this Parliament, it will be before the deal comes into force and | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
we expect that to be undertaken before the European Parliament has | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
had an opportunity to debate and vote on this issue. Of course within | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
this house there are representatives from all parts of the United | :48:00. | :48:06. | |
Kingdom. Does my right honourable friend recalled the words of Francis | :48:07. | :48:12. | |
Drake? There must be a beginning of any great matter, and the continuing | :48:13. | :48:20. | |
to the end until it be thoroughly finished, yield the true glory. May | :48:21. | :48:24. | |
I wish my right honourable friend good luck and good fortune in her | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
negotiations until she comes to true glory and is welcomed back to this | :48:29. | :48:39. | |
house as a 21st-century glory Anah. I think the answer to that is I | :48:40. | :48:50. | |
thank my honourable friend. Mr Speaker, I wonder if the Prime | :48:51. | :48:53. | |
Minister might clear up a bit of confusion about immigration policy | :48:54. | :48:59. | |
on her own side. The Times reports that the International Trade | :49:00. | :49:03. | |
secretary is now arguing for more immigration from countries that are | :49:04. | :49:11. | |
outside the EU in return for striking new trade deals. Does the | :49:12. | :49:16. | |
Prime Minister agree? The government has a clear position on the work | :49:17. | :49:19. | |
that we aren't doing to reduce net migration into this country. Leaving | :49:20. | :49:27. | |
the EU will to introduce rules in relation to people moving from | :49:28. | :49:30. | |
European Union member states into the United Kingdom. But we continue | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
to ensure that we are bearing down on abuse in our immigration system | :49:35. | :49:37. | |
and having the rules that we believe are right to continue to bring the | :49:38. | :49:43. | |
lightest and the best here to the UK. May I thank the Prime Minister | :49:44. | :49:53. | |
for her statement and for being very clear that we are not leaving | :49:54. | :49:58. | |
Europe. For being very clear that we seek to guarantee the rights of EU | :49:59. | :50:02. | |
citizens. And when she says as early as we can, does the Prime Minister | :50:03. | :50:06. | |
agree with me as a fellow European, as early as we can means today? We | :50:07. | :50:15. | |
will be in terms of the negotiation because I want reciprocal rights it | :50:16. | :50:22. | |
is not just about what we say, it will be for the European Union | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
remaining 27 member states to negotiate with us on that. We need | :50:27. | :50:28. | |
that represent a class I am hopeful we can start this at an | :50:29. | :50:40. | |
early stage. Some members for the British people, isn't it important | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
to recognise for the large majority of people in this country are not | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
dogmatically for or against the UK being in the European Union. And if | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
we want to bring the people together as the Prime Minister has said, that | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
should be very much borne in mind. And the other aspect, if during the | :51:00. | :51:07. | |
negotiations which her predecessor undertook there had been some | :51:08. | :51:11. | |
flexibility from the European Union over the free movement of labour, is | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
it not quite likely we would not be debating this issue now? I say to | :51:18. | :51:26. | |
the honourable gentleman that David Cameron put an enormous effort, as | :51:27. | :51:31. | |
did others across government into the negotiations he undertook for | :51:32. | :51:34. | |
the deal he brought to the British people. But the assumption the | :51:35. | :51:37. | |
honourable gentleman has made is that the only issue on which people | :51:38. | :51:42. | |
voted on was free movement. I don't think that's right. I think it was a | :51:43. | :51:45. | |
key issue in that people wanted control of borders. But I think it | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
was about more than that. It was about control of our laws, control | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
of our money and it was about self-determination. I think that was | :51:56. | :52:04. | |
what was driving the decision. Many vegetable growers in South Rebel are | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
reliant on migrant labour and easy access to European markets for their | :52:09. | :52:12. | |
exports. Can my right honourable friend reassure my constituents that | :52:13. | :52:19. | |
which is farming will be a priority in her negotiations? I can assure my | :52:20. | :52:27. | |
honourable friend at the Secretary of State for the Department for food | :52:28. | :52:29. | |
and raw affairs is working very closely with farming communities on | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
the interests that they have for the future and the arrangements that | :52:36. | :52:38. | |
will be put in place once we leave the common agricultural policy. Can | :52:39. | :52:44. | |
I say that I welcome the triggering of Article 50 as it will make | :52:45. | :52:51. | |
possible the democratic socialist future which I and many others have | :52:52. | :52:55. | |
struggled for all our lives. The Prime Minister will be aware that we | :52:56. | :53:01. | |
have a trade deficit with the EU of over ?60 billion a year, another | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
deficit of around ?20 billion per year, and we pay in over ?10 million | :53:06. | :53:13. | |
a year as our contribution, total of ?90 billion, a huge sum roughly | :53:14. | :53:17. | |
equivalent to ?6,000 a year for a family of four. This has not put | :53:18. | :53:23. | |
Britain in a strong position, specifically about trade? I think we | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
are in a good position in relation to trade. I think that's because of | :53:29. | :53:34. | |
the benefits of trade that companies in the European union member states | :53:35. | :53:40. | |
see and I believe that there is a real benefit on both sides in this | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
negotiation to get a good trade deal for both of us. May I wholeheartedly | :53:46. | :53:54. | |
welcomed the Prime Minister's method of looking forward with optimism and | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
hope. Without this kind of view I would certainly have never made it | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
to this place. And today my heart is tinged with a little sadness but we | :54:04. | :54:09. | |
must always aim for better and I welcome wholeheartedly the tone and | :54:10. | :54:12. | |
spirit of the woods today. With this in mind would she agreed that it is | :54:13. | :54:16. | |
crucial that all sectors are treated fairly in future negotiations and in | :54:17. | :54:20. | |
the south-west where food, farming and agriculture are our biggest | :54:21. | :54:25. | |
sector, this sector must not be sold or traded at the expense of other | :54:26. | :54:31. | |
sectors. I say to my honourable friend we are working hard across | :54:32. | :54:34. | |
all government departments to ensure that the interests of different | :54:35. | :54:37. | |
parts of the United Kingdom are taken into account. We recognise the | :54:38. | :54:43. | |
value of certain sectors and jobs varies according to different parts | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
of the United Kingdom and there are parts in the south-west where food | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
and farming are particularly important and I can assure her that | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
we will be looking for a compromise package that will provide a good | :54:57. | :55:05. | |
deal for everybody across the UK. In her letter to Donald Tusk, the Prime | :55:06. | :55:09. | |
Minister says if we leave the European Union without agreement we | :55:10. | :55:14. | |
would have to trade on WTO terms. In security terms of failure to reach | :55:15. | :55:18. | |
agreement would mean our cooperation in the fight against crime and | :55:19. | :55:23. | |
terrorism would be weakened. Is she really saying the security of our | :55:24. | :55:26. | |
country will be traded like a bargaining chip in negotiations? | :55:27. | :55:31. | |
It going to be trading the security of our country but have a | :55:32. | :55:37. | |
relationship with the European Union. -- we are not going to be | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
trading. There are certain parts of the European Union in Justice and | :55:42. | :55:43. | |
home affairs that we are currently members of that leaving the European | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
Union we would not be members of. We need to negotiate what that future | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
membership would be. It is simple and pragmatic but the aim will be to | :55:54. | :55:58. | |
ensure cooperation on these matters. May I welcome the Prime Minister's | :55:59. | :56:02. | |
repeated use of the word pragmatic and her responses? Many of us | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
believe that this country is at its very best when we are pragmatic | :56:07. | :56:10. | |
rather than ideological. She mentioned the importance of | :56:11. | :56:13. | |
cooperation in justice and home affairs. Was she also accept that | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
cooperation in other aspects of judicial and legal services is also | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
pretty important to underpin her priority with the financial services | :56:25. | :56:27. | |
sector, so critical to any negotiation. My honourable friend is | :56:28. | :56:31. | |
very right. The strength that our legal services have is an important | :56:32. | :56:38. | |
part of the relationship and that is why the Lord Chancellor has been | :56:39. | :56:41. | |
working with the judiciary to look at exactly those issues and how we | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
can take those for to ensure the right level of cooperation the | :56:47. | :56:52. | |
future. I thank the Prime Minister for a band site of the statement. | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
She refers to the British spirit, and to a fairer and united Britain. | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
But fairness is just that. The proper respect for all people from | :57:02. | :57:08. | |
all parts of the islands. Not just taking into account specific | :57:09. | :57:13. | |
incidents of nations and regions. Not just consulting about which | :57:14. | :57:16. | |
powers should stay in Westminster and which should be whittled down as | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
she drives through her extreme version of Brexit. As we leave the | :57:22. | :57:25. | |
European Union, they must be a better way than just her way. He | :57:26. | :57:34. | |
refers to my vision for Brexit. As I have made very clear, in this House | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
this afternoon and elsewhere, we want to get that combines a free | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
trade agreement, we want good security cooperation and good | :57:44. | :57:46. | |
security on justice and home affairs matters. That is what is in the | :57:47. | :57:51. | |
letter to President Task. I do not see that as an extreme view, I see | :57:52. | :57:56. | |
that as a good deal for the United Kingdom. -- President Tusk. May I | :57:57. | :58:00. | |
congratulate my right honourable friend on the very reasonable | :58:01. | :58:04. | |
underlying tone in her letter to President Tusk today. My honourable | :58:05. | :58:08. | |
friend will be aware that this is a day I have campaigned for 426 years. | :58:09. | :58:14. | |
Will she with me that the dividend of restoring democracy to our | :58:15. | :58:18. | |
institutions, in stopping a huge fiscal transfer to the EU and the | :58:19. | :58:22. | |
potential for international trade deals are prizes that all across our | :58:23. | :58:28. | |
country will benefit from in years to come. As I indicated earlier, I | :58:29. | :58:35. | |
know that there are honourable honourable friend and others who | :58:36. | :58:42. | |
have wanted this for a long time and he's absolutely right. What will | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
delay the vote -- what underlay the vote was the feeling that the United | :58:48. | :58:51. | |
Kingdom needed to have control of its budget and laws, control of | :58:52. | :58:55. | |
immigration rules, and not just simply be subject to decisions taken | :58:56. | :59:04. | |
in the EU. I am proud to be a member of the European Parliament, one of | :59:05. | :59:10. | |
the first elected members in 1979 along with Boris Johnson's father, | :59:11. | :59:13. | |
who I don't think shares the same views as Boris any longer. She has | :59:14. | :59:20. | |
spoken about the role of the European Parliament this morning and | :59:21. | :59:24. | |
I'm sure she will agree that it is one of three important institutions | :59:25. | :59:28. | |
with whom negotiations will take place. At the end the European | :59:29. | :59:32. | |
Parliament has the power of veto. And that is a very important power. | :59:33. | :59:38. | |
-- at the end of the day, the European Parliament has. Is she | :59:39. | :59:43. | |
agreeing that if the European Parliament invited her, as they do | :59:44. | :59:47. | |
heads of state, to appear before the parliament to give her views and | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
answer some of their questions, that she would agree to do so? The | :59:52. | :59:55. | |
honourable lady is absolutely right, the European Parliament will play an | :59:56. | :59:59. | |
important role in this. Obviously the structure of the negotiations | :00:00. | :00:03. | |
that has been established is that the key negotiator will be the | :00:04. | :00:05. | |
European Commission operating under the mandate of the EU Council, but | :00:06. | :00:10. | |
the arrangements are made for interaction with the European | :00:11. | :00:13. | |
Parliament as part of that as well. I know that heads of government are | :00:14. | :00:21. | |
from time to time invited to address the European Parliament and were | :00:22. | :00:24. | |
such an invitation to come, I would look at it very seriously. This is | :00:25. | :00:31. | |
indeed a momentous day. On the half of all house, may I pass on our | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
congratulations to our honourable friend the Member for Morley and | :00:37. | :00:38. | |
Outwood on the birth of a baby boy this morning, Clifford George. The | :00:39. | :00:46. | |
Prime Minister has spoken about more decision-making powers for the | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
devolved assemblies. With that in mind, is now not the time to | :00:50. | :00:56. | |
turbo-charge devolved powers to Yorkshire and the North and to put | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
real backing into the northern powerhouse? I would like to | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
congratulate the honourable member for Morley and Outwood on that great | :01:07. | :01:14. | |
news. I would like to thank another honourable member who I think at | :01:15. | :01:22. | |
some hand in the matter. LAUGHTER. WELL, HE HAD A ROLE, ANYWAY! . Thank | :01:23. | :01:31. | |
you, Mr Speaker, I am glad I did not have to give clarification on your | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
statement. I would like to thank both my honourable friend is on the | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
birth of Clifford George this morning. I'm sure the whole house | :01:40. | :01:42. | |
will send their best wishes to mother and father and to their baby | :01:43. | :01:50. | |
son. It is of course, as others have indicated, important that we take | :01:51. | :01:57. | |
consideration of the views of other part of United Kingdom. We an | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
important deal around the country, devolution deals, with directly | :02:04. | :02:08. | |
elected mayor is coming into place on the 4th of May. -- mayors. We | :02:09. | :02:15. | |
will be looking to see how we can further boost the economy is around | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
the whole of the United Kingdom, including the northern powerhouse | :02:19. | :02:24. | |
and the Midlands engine. I was in Birmingham yesterday to discuss | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
exactly that. I think it is time to hear Mr Phil Boswell from his feet. | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
Having recently come from a Public Accounts Committee session about | :02:36. | :02:42. | |
caring for people with learning difficulties, can the Prime Minister | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
advise when the National Health Service will start receiving its | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
extra ?350 million a week? I am pleased to say that of course we are | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
putting more funding into the NHS and putting extra funding into | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
social care as my right honourable friend the Chancellor announced in | :03:00. | :03:02. | |
the budget. Decisions about how we spend our budget in the future, once | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
we have completed this negotiation and left the European Union, will be | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
decisions to be taken here in the United Kingdom. Mr Speaker, in less | :03:12. | :03:19. | |
than half an hour, the Italian Foreign Secretary will be visiting | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
Parliament to sign the book of condolence and lay some flowers on | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
behalf of the Republic of Italy. Mr Speaker, can I warmly commend the | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
Prime Minister's words in her statement. The first time that she | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
said this to the House. Those other words that say, I will represent | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
every person in the whole United Kingdom and yes, those EU nationals | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
who have made this country their home. That includes my parents, my | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
sister, some of my constituents and 3 million other EU nationals. I | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
would like to thank the Prime Minister for using those warm words. | :03:56. | :04:02. | |
Today marks a coming of age for her. She is showing this House and the | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
country that she is the right leader at this moment is time for the | :04:07. | :04:13. | |
country. I thank my honourable friend for his remarks. He has taken | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
a particular interest in the position of EU citizens living here | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
in the United Kingdom and I'm pleased to confirm that as I | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
negotiate, I will be negotiating with everyone in the Kingdom | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
including those EU citizens, and I have repeated in the letter to | :04:29. | :04:35. | |
President Tusk, I hope will be able to at this issue of rights of | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
citizens living here at an early stage of the negotiation. May I | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
remind the Prime Minister that at one stage both she and I were | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
remainders. I remain very much a Remainer. I am a passionate European | :04:49. | :04:55. | |
and believe that she should take careful note that a large number of | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
people this country valued European citizenship. Why? Because it | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
delivered over many years peace, prosperity and security. Will she | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
assure the House that those priorities will be maintained in all | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
the negotiations going forward? I will suddenly say to the honourable | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
gentleman that of course it is possible to be a passionate European | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
without believing that the UK should be a member of the European Union. | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
This is a difference in terms of the values that we share, working | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
together cooperatively across Europe on the issues that he raises. And | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
that is important. I believe, as these benches do, that the | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
determinant for security and defence across Europe has been Nato. We | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
continue to play a part in Nato but I recognise that those on the | :05:42. | :05:49. | |
continent of Europe, that there are those on the continent reveal that | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
the EU has been part of that process of delivering security and peace in | :05:53. | :05:55. | |
the future. I want to ensure that we continue to work together so that we | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
continue to see peace and security across our European continent. I | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
think I will call the fellow wearing the Elgar tie. Although she did | :06:05. | :06:12. | |
indeed support the Remainer side during the EU referendum campaign | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
last year, nevertheless the Prime Minister has demonstrated | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
outstanding leadership to our country in promoting the will of the | :06:22. | :06:30. | |
British people. On this glorious day, recalling Edward Elgar, having | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
campaigned to leave the common market myself in 1975, may I say to | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
my old friend how much I salute her determination to unite the country | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
in securing the very best deal, not only for the United Kingdom but for | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
our European Parliament as well. I thank my honourable friend for his | :06:49. | :06:51. | |
remarks and I know that he has been campaigning long and hard on this | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
issue over the years. I think it is right that we come together now and | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
get the best possible deal for the UK. I also want to put on record how | :06:59. | :07:05. | |
proud I am of what we have achieved as members of the European Union, | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
not just in terms of security and economy, but peace between our | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
nations, which twice in the last century have been at war. We know | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
there is more than one way to Brexit in the next two years will clearly | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
be a big debate about the trade-offs we need to make. We know the Prime | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
Minister wishes to ensure the future prosperity of Britain. So far, there | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
have been no economic assessments of the government's plans. With the | :07:34. | :07:35. | |
Prime Minister confirm that an economic assessment will be | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
published with the final deal and that it will compare the outcomes | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
expected, both with what we have now as with the prospect of no deal? The | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
honourable lady ask me to make a comparison of what we have now. Of | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
course we have decided to leave the European Union and therefore to | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
change our relationship with the European Union. But we will make | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
sure that when it comes to the vote in parliament that Parliament has | :08:01. | :08:12. | |
the necessary information. This is a day for which neither I nor the vast | :08:13. | :08:15. | |
majority of my constituents wanted to see but may I commend the Prime | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
Minister for her statement and tone in a letter to President. I fully | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
support the Prime Minister's objective in delivering a conference | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
of free trade deal on goods and services with the EU and let's be | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
clear, no deal would be a bad deal. What more can this House do to help | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
deliver her aims in the interests of both Britain and the European Union? | :08:35. | :08:42. | |
I think the task that this House will have of putting through | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
necessary legislation, great repeal Bill and other legislation to be put | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
through, will of course be an important part of that process of | :08:51. | :08:52. | |
being able to deliver on the deal that we need at the end of this | :08:53. | :08:59. | |
negotiation that we are entering into. I have every confidence that | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
members from all parts of the House and all sides of the argument in the | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
past will come together and will ensure that we work together to get | :09:09. | :09:17. | |
the best possible deal. With a maximum now of 72 weeks to negotiate | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
the UK EU trade deal, the future for Scotland is clear. It is | :09:23. | :09:25. | |
independence in Europe or go it alone with Westminster. As the | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
government thought of rejoining EFTA or will she go it alone and the | :09:31. | :09:40. | |
original entity on its own, shared only with the Gulf of Guinea and | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
some other countries. Because that is where she is taking the United | :09:44. | :09:50. | |
Kingdom. I said right from the beginning that I believe that, given | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
the position of the United Kingdom, we want to negotiate a deal that is | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
right for the United Kingdom. That means not just ticking off the shelf | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
an arrangement that other countries have, but actually asking what works | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
for the UK and EU, given the relationship that we have that, | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
given that we have been members of the European Union, given the size | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
of our economy and given the benefits to us and the European | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
Union of getting such a free trade deal. | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
Can I warmly welcome the tone of the Prime Minister's letter to President | :10:20. | :10:29. | |
Tusk and wish her every success in achieving free and frictionless | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
trade, but when it comes to returning sovereignty to this | :10:36. | :10:38. | |
parliament, will she undertake that she will limit entry Henry VIII | :10:39. | :10:46. | |
powers and allow MPs to vote on legislation that will affect the | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
future of their people? -- constituents? We will try to ensure | :10:53. | :10:59. | |
we have the best way of putting legislation through the size to | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
enable debate to take place. As we come to debates on the Great Repeal | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
Bill that will be part of discussions but I also ask | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
honourable members to recognise the many changes that need to take place | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
that our technical changes that are not about policy but are necessary | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
because of the intertwining of our legislation that if we are to ensure | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
that when we come to leaving we can have that clean break and we have | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
dealt with all the legislative consequences. I'm sure when the | :11:33. | :11:39. | |
Prime Minister went to the polling station last June and cast her vote | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
for Remain, she had at the forefront of her mind stability for British | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
industry. In the recent bye election she wrote to thousands of my | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
constituents highlighting the plan she said her party would have | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
diverse ramekin industry. The ceramic factories in Stoke-on-Trent | :12:01. | :12:02. | |
make the best pottery in the world but they need stability to reach | :12:03. | :12:08. | |
their great targets, so can the Prime Minister confirm that our | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
future relationship with the single market and the Customs Union will | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
deliver exactly the same benefits as it does so when I return to | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
Stoke-on-Trent I can give my major employers the confidence they need? | :12:24. | :12:29. | |
The answer I give him will be the answer I have given the wrote the | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
statement and in the past. We will be working for that comprehensive | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
free trade agreement to allow the distance to trade freely with the | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
European single market and in goods and services. That is what we want | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
to achieve. I recognised the need for a business to have as much | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
certainty as soon as possible. One thing in the latter which businesses | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
have been asking for is the concept of the implementation period so they | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
can put new arrangements in place and have notification of that, and | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
that is what I suggested to President Tusk we should agree is a | :13:10. | :13:16. | |
principle we abide by. A Canterbury knight, Sir Julian Brazier. In | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
strongly welcoming my honourable friend's statement, could I welcome | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
what she said about remaining good Europeans and will she agreed the | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
fact we are committed to Nato and its 2%, we have troops deploying to | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
neighbours in battle and we have troops fighting Daesh, shows just | :13:39. | :13:45. | |
what a good European country we are? He makes an important point. It | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
isn't about what we say but what we do and what we are doing in Nato, | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
our commitments to eastern European allies and our work to counter Daesh | :13:57. | :14:03. | |
are not just the military work but also our cooperation between | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
intelligence services across Europe, all important symbols of our | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
commitment to ensure we play our part in maintaining security in | :14:13. | :14:18. | |
Europe. The Prime Minister stated she will not provide a running | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
commentary on negotiations. Earlier this week in the Financial Times, it | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
was stated that the unity of the 27th will be stronger aged on full | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
transparency and debate, so what does it say about this so-called | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
team approached that members of this Parliament and devolved governments | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
across these islands are set to hear more about the outcome of those | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
talks then those on -- from those on the other side of the negotiating | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
table than from this Government? What I have said clearly is when we | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
are able to provide clarity as we have until now, we will do so, but | :15:00. | :15:07. | |
it is the case that if we're going to get the best deal for the UK, we | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
should not reveal every detail of our hand at every stage in the | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
negotiations. We will be looking to ensure that clarity and information | :15:20. | :15:25. | |
are available where appropriate. Wyatts seeking to protect and | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
enhance workers' writes, with the Prime Minister also seized the | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
opportunity of ordered by leaving the EU for greater sectoral | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
regulation, so businesses can create the prosperity we all need and on | :15:40. | :15:47. | |
which our public services rely? At the point we leave, the key will be | :15:48. | :15:54. | |
brought into UK law, to provide certainty but then it will be up to | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
the UK Parliament to determine what regulations remain in place and what | :16:00. | :16:08. | |
deregulation should take place? In her letter to Donald Tusk, the Prime | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
Minister refers to the treaty of the EU and the atomic energy treaty. She | :16:14. | :16:19. | |
makes no reference to the European economic area agreement which | :16:20. | :16:25. | |
underpins our membership of the single market. When and how does the | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
Prime Minister intend to withdraw us from the EEA? Membership of the EEA | :16:30. | :16:37. | |
is linked to our member shot of the EU and start notification of leaving | :16:38. | :16:52. | |
the EU covers also the EEA. Can I warmly congratulate my right | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
honourable friend for carrying out the wishes of the majority of my | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
constituents in Bury, Ramsbottom and Tottenham by triggering Article 50? | :17:02. | :17:09. | |
Does she agree that while inevitably after 40 years of membership there | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
could be difficult negotiations ahead, what matters is the big | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
picture, but we are taking back control for this Parliament, control | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
of our borders and of our contributions? There will be | :17:25. | :17:32. | |
detailed negotiations but we must always remain and keep as our vision | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
that big picture as he describes it that this is about control of our | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
laws, borders and budgets, that is what people voted for. Michel | :17:42. | :17:52. | |
Barnier, who will be involved in negotiations, has put Northern | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
Ireland top of his agenda because he was involved in the negotiations to | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
achieve a special European programme. Can the Prime Minister | :18:01. | :18:07. | |
outlined how she will ensure the protections of our fragile economy | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
in Northern Ireland to ensure there is Tara free access and continued | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
access to the single European market which is vital to the growing | :18:15. | :18:22. | |
economy on the island of Ireland? In overall terms negotiating a | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
comprehensive free trade agreement with what we want to achieve, are | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
free trade with the European single market, will cover the whole of the | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
UK including Northern Ireland, but we are conscious because of the land | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
border with the Republic that we have to look carefully at customs | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
arrangements. We want to be have trade agreements with other | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
countries around the world, that has implications in relation to the | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
Customs Union that we are working with the Irish government to ensure | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
arrangements can be put in place to maintain that the economy in | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
Northern Ireland, and as the Taoiseach and others have said, we | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
do not see a return to the borders of the past. May I commend my right | :19:11. | :19:20. | |
honourable friend on the comments she made regarding the need for all | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
of us to work together to secure the best possible need for our country | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
at this momentous time? She will be aware of the decision by the Supreme | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
Court, the unanimous decision that matters relating to relations with | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
the EU are to be dealt with exclusively by the UK Government and | :19:41. | :19:47. | |
UK Parliament and not a matter for the devolved in situations. Given | :19:48. | :19:53. | |
that as a country we regularly speak to the rest of the world about the | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
need to respect the rule of law, which she agree with me that it is | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
oughtn't that politicians from all four nations of our country | :20:03. | :20:11. | |
themselves respect the rule of law? I'm grateful to my honourable | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
friend. It is indeed the case that the Supreme Court found there would | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
be no veto for the devolved administrations but it is | :20:22. | :20:24. | |
interesting that I understand we have an argument from the SNP that a | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
decision to remain in the EU either Scottish voters should be dealt | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
within a different way from the overall result of the referendum. In | :20:36. | :20:42. | |
2014 when we had the referendum on membership of the UK in Scotland, | :20:43. | :20:48. | |
the SNP argued the opposite, that the result as a whole was the only | :20:49. | :20:54. | |
one that counted and if there were parts of Scotland like Orkney and | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
Shetland who voted differently, that should not be taken into account. | :20:59. | :21:05. | |
The Prime Minister has rightly spoken of in the day. Could she say | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
specifically how she will respect and give voice to those people who | :21:11. | :21:17. | |
have extreme anxiety and businesses about the direction the country is | :21:18. | :21:24. | |
now embarked? We do want to give certainty to businesses and others | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
as soon as possible on the arrangements that will be put in | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
place but this will be a negotiation and there will be uncertainty, and | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
we cannot take that uncertainty completely away, but we can't give | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
clarity at stages where we are able to do so, as we have been in the | :21:44. | :21:51. | |
last few months. I welcome the approach my right honourable friend | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
is taking to secure a positive outcome. Does she agree that Brexit | :21:55. | :22:02. | |
is a spur to action to tackle long-standing economic challenges | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
about productivity, skills and export performance, and will then | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
modern industrial strategy help in achieving these objectives? The vote | :22:12. | :22:18. | |
was not just about leaving the EU but changing the way the country | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
works for ever, getting that stronger economy, ensuring everyone | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
plays by the same rules, ensuring it works for everyone and we see growth | :22:28. | :22:34. | |
in every part of the UK, it is an important part of our plan for | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
Britain and dark industrial strategy is at the heart of delivering that. | :22:40. | :22:47. | |
Could the Prime Minister explain why in her long and detailed letter to | :22:48. | :22:53. | |
President Tusk, which clearly took weeks to prepare, she somehow forgot | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
to mention Gibraltar? Is it a case of out of sight, out of mind? We're | :23:00. | :23:08. | |
absolutely steadfast in our support of Gibraltar and its people and the | :23:09. | :23:11. | |
economy. Our position has not changed. We have been firm and our | :23:12. | :23:17. | |
commitment to never enter arrangements under which the people | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
of Gibraltar would pass to sovereignty of another state against | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
their wishes, or enter into negotiations with which they are not | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
content? The letters of negotiation in relation to our with drawing, | :23:32. | :23:38. | |
Gibraltar is not a separate member of the EU nor is it part of the UK | :23:39. | :23:45. | |
with reference to EU law but it is covered by our exit negotiations, we | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
are committed to involving them and have been having regular discussions | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
with the Government of Gibraltar and will work with them for the future. | :23:56. | :24:02. | |
As a representative of a give the constituency which voted | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
overwhelmingly to leave, I would like to congratulate the Prime | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
Minister on her leadership on this historic day. Much of my beautiful | :24:12. | :24:19. | |
constituency is rural farmland and the local farmland would like | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
reassurance that their livelihoods will be protected as we leave the | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
EU. Can my right honourable friend confirm she will do all she can to | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
support British farming in the process of these negotiations? We | :24:33. | :24:40. | |
have already been able to give some reassurance to farmers by the | :24:41. | :24:43. | |
commitment we have in terms of funding until 2020, then we need to | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
look at arrangements post the UK leaving the EU, but I can assure my | :24:50. | :24:57. | |
honourable friend that the Secretary of State for the environment, Food | :24:58. | :25:00. | |
and Rural Affairs is working with farmers in all parts of the UK to | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
look at arrangements for the best way ahead. There is a big economic | :25:05. | :25:13. | |
challenge ahead. Does the Prime Minister recognised that securing | :25:14. | :25:16. | |
anything like the barrier free access to the single market will | :25:17. | :25:22. | |
require some compromise to be found on the question of free movement of | :25:23. | :25:23. | |
people? The decision was taken on the 23rd | :25:24. | :25:31. | |
of June in relation to free movement was that it should be the free | :25:32. | :25:34. | |
government -- UK Government that determines the free migration of | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
people from the European Union to the United Kingdom. We will be | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
pitching for proposals to this House in due course as to what the | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
arrangements for the future should be but I have every confidence, | :25:47. | :25:49. | |
because we are not going to stop immigration from the European Union | :25:50. | :25:52. | |
coming into the United Kingdom, we recognise there will still be a need | :25:53. | :25:59. | |
for people to come from the EU into the United Kingdom. But the | :26:00. | :26:01. | |
important point will be that the rules governing that will be | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
determined by the UK Government. Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister is right | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
that the UK is leaving the institutions of the European Union, | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
not Europe itself. She's also to talk of this country as global | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
Britain. This nation is one of the world's leading aviation powers and | :26:22. | :26:27. | |
a trading nation. Can I seek assurances that the importance of | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
aviation, as we increasingly become a conduit between the rest of the | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
world and Europe, will be paramount. Obviously the arrangements for | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
aviation will be a key element of the negotiations as we take them | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
forward. Both in terms of ensuring that we see no disruption to the | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
aviation arrangements, but they are still able to continue to fly | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
between the UK and other parts of the European Union in the way that | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
they have done here and elsewhere in the world. But we recognise the | :26:59. | :27:01. | |
importance of our aviation industry not just in terms of the airlines | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
themselves and the work that they do, and our airports, but also the | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
manufacturing that we have here in relation to the aviation industries | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
is also important. There must be some relief from the toil of being a | :27:16. | :27:24. | |
whip. The Prime Minister talked grandly about self-determination. | :27:25. | :27:30. | |
Why is she so determined to not allow the Scottish people to | :27:31. | :27:40. | |
exercise that very right? As I have said before, I think now is not the | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
time to be talking about a second independence referendum and I would | :27:44. | :27:45. | |
simply remind the honourable gentleman that in 2014 the SNP were | :27:46. | :27:51. | |
clear that that was a once-in-a-lifetime vote. This is | :27:52. | :28:01. | |
truly a red white and blue letter day. Shut up. It represents all of | :28:02. | :28:09. | |
the constituent parts of United Kingdom including Scotland. Sending | :28:10. | :28:17. | |
an ambassador was a nice touch, Brown Minister. In the letter you | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
talk about the Brexit plans, the EU citizens living in the UK and the | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
British citizens including Scots who live and work in other parts of the | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
European Union. Another Prime Minister has said she will not give | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
a running commentary on the negotiations but will she give an | :28:34. | :28:35. | |
assurance that once a deal is reached, as far as the expats, she | :28:36. | :28:43. | |
will inform them to ease the anxiety they are currently feeling. The | :28:44. | :28:49. | |
point of trying to achieve a deal at an early stage is precisely so we | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
can tell people the nature of that deal. So that they can have the | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
reassurance and will not have to worry about their future. On days | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
such as this, the prime ministers should speak for the whole country. | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
She has chosen to speak for little more than half. Beyond empty | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
rhetoric, what reassurances can she give to the 70% of my constituents | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
who voted to remain and the one in six who are citizens of other EU | :29:16. | :29:19. | |
countries who have real fears for their livelihoods, their businesses | :29:20. | :29:27. | |
and their security? On the issue of EU citizens, as I have just | :29:28. | :29:33. | |
indicated in answer to my right honourable friend, the question of | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
the status of EU citizens living here and citizens living in the | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
member states will be one that we hope to address at early stages of | :29:42. | :29:44. | |
the negotiations so that we can give people that security and assurance | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
of their future. And of course for businesses I recognise there will be | :29:49. | :29:50. | |
a degree of uncertainty until the future arrangement has been | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
concluded and they know what the future arrangement is going to be. | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
We can give them, I hope, certainty that there will be able mentation | :30:00. | :30:02. | |
periods so that there will not be a cliff edge for them but what they | :30:03. | :30:05. | |
can be assured of is that we are going to try to ensure that we get | :30:06. | :30:08. | |
the most brands of free trade deal possible. -- comprehensive free | :30:09. | :30:15. | |
trade deal. Many people voted to leave the EU because they felt | :30:16. | :30:18. | |
disengaged with politics and the institutions did not work with them. | :30:19. | :30:24. | |
Over the next 18 months will the Prime Minister work to ensure that | :30:25. | :30:27. | |
we retain a place in the world but also to deliver on our domestic | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
agenda to ensure that people feel that our government is working for | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
them? My my honourable friend makes an important point which is that | :30:38. | :30:46. | |
holder will be important negotiations, it is important that | :30:47. | :30:49. | |
the government will be putting together a domestic agenda for a | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
stronger economy and fairer society, and that global outlook for the | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
United Kingdom. The work we will be doing around the world will be an | :30:58. | :31:06. | |
important part of that. Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister told us that | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
Brexit meant Brexit. But now we see the Scottish Parliament voting for a | :31:13. | :31:15. | |
second Scottish referendum will the Prime Minister realise and | :31:16. | :31:24. | |
acknowledge that Scotref means Scotref and agreed to an application | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
for a section 30. If we're going to make a success of Brexit, we need to | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
pull together at this time and make sure we're getting the best possible | :31:34. | :31:37. | |
deal for the United Kingdom. Scotland voted in September 2014 to | :31:38. | :31:44. | |
remain a member the United Kingdom. I will draw members to my | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
declaration of interest. I welcome the Prime Minister's statement and | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
the tone, embracing the whole of United Kingdom, and emphasis on | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
pursuing a Brexit that works for everyone. Can I seek reassurances | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
that the agriculture and environment, so closely linked, will | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
not become a sacrificial lamb in any future negotiations going forward, | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
any future trade negotiations. We will in our trade negotiations with | :32:14. | :32:16. | |
the European Union, but also with others around the world, we will be | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
very conscious of the need to ensure that we respect the requirements | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
both for the environment and also for our agriculture, food and | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
farming industry here in the United Kingdom. I ensure my honourable | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
friend that we will continue to maintain our commitment to both | :32:35. | :32:40. | |
those issues. Can I congratulate the Prime Minister on her stamina in | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
being at the dispatch box for two and a half hours. And that is only | :32:45. | :32:51. | |
halfway through. At least at the home affairs committee we give a | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
chair to sit down throughout the sessions. Anyway, the first of all | :32:55. | :32:57. | |
congratulate her congratulate her on her appointment for a new national | :32:58. | :33:06. | |
security adviser. Can I pressed her on the issue of policing and | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
security issues? I know there are headlines in the letter to Donald | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
Tusk but throughout these negotiations, will we remain a full | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
member of Europol and will we have access to the criminal databases of | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
the EU? And is that one of her ambitions, to retain that access | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
when we leave the EU? While we remain a member of the European | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
Union we will continue to have access and membership arrangements | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
that we currently have for the various issues that the honourable | :33:37. | :33:42. | |
gentleman the to. It will certainly be my expectation that we will be | :33:43. | :33:44. | |
looking to negotiate continued access for information, in various | :33:45. | :33:52. | |
ways like which we are currently sharing information with the | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
European Union. That is not just in our interests, it is in the | :33:56. | :33:58. | |
interests of the European Union. This is a great day for our country. | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
As we take back full control of our national destiny. Historically, we | :34:03. | :34:11. | |
have been a free trading nation am outward looking with a global | :34:12. | :34:14. | |
perspective. Does the Brown Minister agree that that which is historic in | :34:15. | :34:21. | |
our national DNA will stand us in good stead as we are going through | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
these critical negotiations. -- does the Prime Minister. I absolutely | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
agree and that is why I am optimistic and ambitious for our | :34:31. | :34:33. | |
future. I think that outward looking spirit that we have always had will | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
stand us in good stead. Can the Prime Minister confirm her | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
understanding of what will need to happen on the European side to | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
ratify the New Deal with the UK which we all want to see? Will there | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
be a decision as part of the exit negotiations by the Council of | :34:52. | :34:54. | |
Ministers and the commission or will it be something that requires | :34:55. | :34:57. | |
ratification by every single remaining EU member state, sometimes | :34:58. | :35:03. | |
including regional parliaments? Because clearly that could cause | :35:04. | :35:06. | |
absurdity of one member state or poses the terms that we have | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
negotiated for our exit. The extent to which any part of the deal | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
requires full ratification from every single member state and from | :35:17. | :35:19. | |
every constituent part of the European Union will vary according | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
to the nation of the asset of the deal. Overall, it will be necessary | :35:26. | :35:33. | |
for members of Parliament to ratify. For those of us who campaigned and | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
voted for Brexit, not just last year but also in 1975, this is indeed a | :35:38. | :35:44. | |
great day and one for celebration. 70% of my Cleethorpes constituents | :35:45. | :35:50. | |
and in neighbouring Grimsley voted for Brexit last June. In part that | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
was the continuing anger and resentment at the sell-out of the | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
fishing industry in the original negotiations. The Brown Minister has | :35:59. | :36:01. | |
reassured me that the fishing industry will be looked after but | :36:02. | :36:11. | |
the associated seafood industry is very much dependent on the fishing | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
industry. I have already met with industry leaders in my constituency | :36:18. | :36:20. | |
who see both opportunities and concerns. Can she reassured me that | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
the seafood processing industry will indeed be a key part of the | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
negotiations? I can give my honourable friend the assurance that | :36:32. | :36:34. | |
we don't just want to ensure we get a good future for the fishing | :36:35. | :36:37. | |
industry, we want to ensure that the parts of the industry that rely on | :36:38. | :36:40. | |
fishing will also have a good future here in the United Kingdom and we | :36:41. | :36:48. | |
will be taking that into account. Thousands of EU nationals do | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
essential and useful jobs in our agriculture and fishing sector. They | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
still do not know what their status is going to be two years from now. | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
The UK Government's position, is it so weak that they need to use these | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
people as bargaining fodder in their negotiations? Why won't the Brown | :37:09. | :37:10. | |
Minister make a goodwill gesture and guarantee their rights? -- the Prime | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
Minister. As the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, and as the | :37:17. | :37:23. | |
Parliament of the United Kingdom, I think we should all have cared not | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
just for citizens living here but for United Kingdom citizens living | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
in the EU. We want to ensure reciprocal arrangements guaranteeing | :37:32. | :37:40. | |
rights on both sides. I welcome the Prime Minister's clear commitments | :37:41. | :37:43. | |
to a positive, constructive and respectful approach to the | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
negotiations that lie ahead. Can I pressed her further, on behalf of | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
the fishing community in my constituency and around the United | :37:52. | :37:54. | |
Kingdom. She will know that in the past they have been badly let down | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
during negotiations, so can she give an equally clear commitment that the | :37:59. | :38:04. | |
fishing community will receive a sufficiently high priority during | :38:05. | :38:11. | |
the negotiations ahead? I can confirm to my honourable friend that | :38:12. | :38:13. | |
we are very conscious of the needs of the fishing industry. DEFRA has | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
been talking with the fishing industry and the secretaries of | :38:20. | :38:21. | |
state and others has been looking carefully at the arrangements and | :38:22. | :38:28. | |
needs of the fishing industry, which will be an important part of our | :38:29. | :38:31. | |
considerations in future. A number of people are very distressed and | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
sad that we are leaving the European Union. Many did not vote for it, | :38:37. | :38:44. | |
many did not even get a say in this decision, but they are the | :38:45. | :38:47. | |
generation most greatly affected by it. What will the Prime Minister do | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
to ensure that she listens to and engages with the next-generation? I | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
think the honourable lady makes an important point because the | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
decisions we take now about how we leave the European Union, about what | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
our arrangements are in the future, how we do what we do here in the | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
United Kingdom in terms of our industrial strategy and technical | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
education, are about the next generation. I want to ensure that we | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
are ambitious for the whole of the country and ambitious to ensure a | :39:16. | :39:18. | |
bright future for the next generation. That is what the | :39:19. | :39:24. | |
government will be working for. Can I thank my honourable friend for the | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
resonant way she has pushed through the will of the British people. Does | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
she agree with me that invoking Article 50, the logical conclusion | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
to that will be regaining control of our destiny? That means that all the | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
rules and regulations made to govern our lives will be made in this place | :39:43. | :39:49. | |
or on these islands, and not by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. I | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
think my honourable friend has put his finger on the issue which a | :39:55. | :39:57. | |
thing led to many people voting to leave the European Union, which is | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
what they wanted was to feel that decisions were being taken here in | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
the United Kingdom about their future and not being taken in | :40:06. | :40:08. | |
Brussels. From the ranks of the boisterous bunch of the SNP, I think | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
we should hear a voice of serenity and good conduct. | :40:13. | :40:19. | |
Thank you, Mr Speaker. The chair of the EU Constitutional committee has | :40:20. | :40:30. | |
spoken clearly and I quote, we have also taken note of the fact that UK | :40:31. | :40:36. | |
citizens vivid differently in Scotland and Northern Ireland and | :40:37. | :40:39. | |
also in Gibraltar, nicking it clear the majority wish to be in the | :40:40. | :40:46. | |
union, and it is difficult to imagine those differences could be | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
ignored and discarded in the process of Brexit, so can I ask how our | :40:51. | :40:56. | |
friends and partners in Europe are so clear about making our voices | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
heard and the honourable member complete the ignores them? The | :41:01. | :41:08. | |
Government is not completely ignoring and discarding voices. We | :41:09. | :41:14. | |
are focusing on the best possible outcome for the whole UK and that | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
best possible outcome, I look at it in terms of the events we want to | :41:21. | :41:27. | |
achieve, that free trade agreement, I understood that was what the | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
Scottish Government wanted to see, a comprehensive free trade agreement, | :41:33. | :41:40. | |
and we will be working four. The food and drinks manufacturing sector | :41:41. | :41:43. | |
is the largest manufacturing sector in the UK. It is innovative, a | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
significant exporter and employs a lot of people, and it is also an | :41:50. | :41:57. | |
area affected by EU law, so in the forthcoming negotiations will the | :41:58. | :42:00. | |
Prime Minister is sensitive to the needs of the sector and ensure it | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
can't compete on a level playing field? I can assure my honourable | :42:05. | :42:12. | |
friend that we are listening to the voices of industrial sectors around | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
the country to ensure we take account of the concerns they have as | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
we look ahead to leaving the EU because we want to ensure we build | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
on the success we have, he talks about innovation, we want to build | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
on that so we will take those interests in account. The Prime | :42:32. | :42:38. | |
Minister's letter to President Tusk states in security terms a failure | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
to reach agreement would mean our cooperation in the fight against | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
crime and terror would be weakened. Could she clarify, is she still | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
threatening to walk away with no deal if she doesn't get the economic | :42:53. | :42:59. | |
deal she wants? I go on to make it clear that not having agreements on | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
these issues would not be in the interests of the UK and the EU and | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
we should work to ensure we secure a deal. Can I thank the Prime Minister | :43:09. | :43:16. | |
for her statement and will she confirmed that during the Brexit | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
negotiation she will play attention to the concerns of people in | :43:21. | :43:26. | |
Gibraltar, maintain the effective working border with Spain and these | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
negotiations will not be used as a back door to discussions about | :43:30. | :43:37. | |
sovereignty, given that Gibraltarians, unlike some, want to | :43:38. | :43:40. | |
respect the result of the referendum? I can't give an | :43:41. | :43:47. | |
assurance to my honourable friend, we have set a Joint Ministerial | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
Council with the Government of Gibraltar to discuss their | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
particular issues to make sure the concerns are taken into account as | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
we enter these negotiations and we are committed to continue engaging | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
with Gibraltar. The honourable member is a jovial jackanapes, let's | :44:07. | :44:12. | |
hear from the fella. I do apologise. hear from the fella. I do apologise. | :44:13. | :44:29. | |
No, once is enough. Enough! Even an ardent Remainer like me recognises | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
we now have a golden opportunity to reshape immigration policy. The | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
Prime Minister spoke of a truly global Britain so will she apply | :44:40. | :44:46. | |
that principle and at the earliest opportunity remove international | :44:47. | :44:49. | |
students from net migration targets and sent out a message we are | :44:50. | :44:55. | |
welcome information, and also stem the plummeting tide of EU | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
applications to our universities? Whether or not students are included | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
in the net migration target is not a message about our country and how | :45:06. | :45:12. | |
welcome people. We welcome students to this country but what we do in | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
statistics is abide by the international definition which is | :45:17. | :45:21. | |
used by countries around the world. We want to ensure the brightest and | :45:22. | :45:26. | |
the best can come to the UK and get the value of our education. Could I | :45:27. | :45:35. | |
welcome the Prime Minister's seven principles in her letter, especially | :45:36. | :45:38. | |
the first about constructive and respectful engagement and about the | :45:39. | :45:45. | |
importance of the relationship with the Republic of Ireland and the | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
Belfast Agreement. Which she agree that to achieve the best possible | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
outcome for all constituents, there should be a minimum of red lines and | :45:55. | :46:01. | |
the maximum flexibility? A agree it's important to be flexible but | :46:02. | :46:05. | |
the key thing is that in everything we do we put the British national | :46:06. | :46:13. | |
interest first. I don't know that the Prime Minister is aware of the | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
draft resolution published by the European Parliament which includes a | :46:18. | :46:24. | |
recognition that a large number of UK citizens, including a majority in | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
Scotland and Northern Ireland, voted to remain in the EU. It doesn't | :46:29. | :46:35. | |
mention Maidenhead, perhaps because the people of Maidenhead did not | :46:36. | :46:38. | |
have a referendum where they were told that voting to remain in the UK | :46:39. | :46:44. | |
would also mean remaining in the EU. The SNP cannot have it all ways | :46:45. | :46:52. | |
because they wanted to leave the UK, which would have meant leaving the | :46:53. | :46:58. | |
EU. I welcome how the Prime Minister has taken forward the will of the | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
British people, including my constituents. In relation to | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
fighting extremism, in 2014 there were 20 Daesh inspired terror acts | :47:09. | :47:16. | |
around the world and in 2015 there were 60 such events. The UK has | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
always had open intelligence sharing with our partners around the world, | :47:22. | :47:27. | |
and there is a moral obligation for every international partner where | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
they have that information to prevent a terror attack to provide | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
that to their partner because we are all in it together. We are working | :47:36. | :47:42. | |
together to fight terror and many of the exchanges on terrorism matters | :47:43. | :47:48. | |
are not part of EU structures. Agriculture is devolved to the Welsh | :47:49. | :47:55. | |
Government. Can the Prime Minister confirm whether any repeat region to | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
powers in this area will also transferred to the Welsh Government? | :48:01. | :48:08. | |
There are powers devolved to the administrations, if they are subject | :48:09. | :48:13. | |
to decisions taken in the EU, so once we leave those would come to | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
the UK. We want an open discussion with devolved administrations to | :48:20. | :48:23. | |
ensure we keep a single market operating in the EU -- in the UK, | :48:24. | :48:30. | |
but it is our expect patient that we will see significant increased | :48:31. | :48:36. | |
decision-making powers moving to the devolved administrations when we | :48:37. | :48:42. | |
leave. Today we embark on a journey which is undoubtedly motivated in | :48:43. | :48:48. | |
part by a desire to control immigration but as we sit here, | :48:49. | :48:52. | |
entire swathes of our country, public services and the economy, are | :48:53. | :48:58. | |
dependent on hard-working EU migrants to function. In seeking to | :48:59. | :49:04. | |
control immigration many people here want to seek lower levels of | :49:05. | :49:08. | |
immigration but it will not be possible in practice until we reform | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
our welfare state and education system so we can replace our | :49:13. | :49:16. | |
reliance on foreign Labour with more local talent. We need to ensure that | :49:17. | :49:25. | |
people in the UK have the skills and incentives to take up the jobs | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
available, so bidders is here to not find it so necessary to rely on | :49:31. | :49:36. | |
people from abroad. We recognise the valuable contribution that EU | :49:37. | :49:42. | |
citizens are making to society here and we want to take the interests of | :49:43. | :49:47. | |
business into account as we shape our immigration laws for the future. | :49:48. | :49:55. | |
The Prime Minister's letter refers to doing nothing to jeopardise the | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
peace process and the need to uphold the Belfast Agreement. Though she | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
recognised the Belfast Agreement exists in several strands, including | :50:05. | :50:10. | |
a framework for all Ireland cooperation, North-South joint | :50:11. | :50:14. | |
implementation in key areas that presumed that would all happen in | :50:15. | :50:18. | |
the context of common membership of the EU, so if that strength is not | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
to be diminished and the agreement not damaged, how will the Government | :50:24. | :50:29. | |
do that well saying there can be no differential treatment for Northern | :50:30. | :50:32. | |
Ireland either inside the UK or by the EU? They cannot put that red | :50:33. | :50:39. | |
line down in respect of Northern Ireland's prospects. We are | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
conscious of the arrangements in the Belfast Agreement and the practical | :50:46. | :50:51. | |
issues arising from the UK leaving the EU because of that land border | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
with the Republic of Ireland. We're conscious of the work across border | :50:57. | :51:01. | |
between Northern Ireland and the Republic, across a variety of areas, | :51:02. | :51:07. | |
so we are working closely with the Irish government to ensure we can | :51:08. | :51:11. | |
preserve the developments that have taken place and the progress made in | :51:12. | :51:16. | |
Northern Ireland and we recognise the importance of the Belfast | :51:17. | :51:19. | |
Agreement in that peace process and the future of Northern Ireland. Not | :51:20. | :51:27. | |
to be last on these benches is a great honour indeed. Would my right | :51:28. | :51:33. | |
honourable friend join me in thanking all those who have done so | :51:34. | :51:39. | |
much to increased the prosperity and liberty of the European continent | :51:40. | :51:44. | |
over 40 years? We should remember the change we have seen is so great | :51:45. | :51:49. | |
that the president of the EU was a man born under tyranny who now leads | :51:50. | :51:53. | |
an impressive union which we have chosen to leave, but like the great | :51:54. | :52:00. | |
democrat he is, he has taken the will of the British people quietly | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
and sensibly and is working with our government to ensure the Prime | :52:06. | :52:07. | |
Minister can deliver what people voted for. Will she join me in | :52:08. | :52:13. | |
hoping that this town of friendship which she has shown today and in her | :52:14. | :52:19. | |
letter and that President Tusk has demonstrated in his reception of it, | :52:20. | :52:23. | |
will continue through both negotiating teams and all ministers? | :52:24. | :52:30. | |
I agree it is important that they're looking at this negotiation in every | :52:31. | :52:37. | |
letter, it is important we maintain that positive approach, I think that | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
is the best way of getting a good agreement at the end of it. On the | :52:42. | :52:48. | |
23rd of June my constituency were not asked if they wanted to leave | :52:49. | :52:53. | |
the single market or the Customs Union. In the event of not reaching | :52:54. | :52:59. | |
a camera free trade agreement with the EU, why does she agree | :53:00. | :53:03. | |
membership of the EU market and Customs Union is better than no Deal | :53:04. | :53:11. | |
or a bad deal? Constituents were asked whether they wanted to remain | :53:12. | :53:14. | |
members of the EU with everything that membership entails. The | :53:15. | :53:20. | |
majority of people across the UK decided to vote to leave the EU. | :53:21. | :53:28. | |
That has an of consequences and we want to negotiate that comprehensive | :53:29. | :53:32. | |
free trade agreement which will provide for continuing free trade | :53:33. | :53:37. | |
between the UK and the EU that it will be a different relationship in | :53:38. | :53:44. | |
future. I am sure there is no dishonour in being last on these | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
benches. Last week a new car factory was opened in my constituency with a | :53:49. | :53:55. | |
?300 million new investment to build a new London taxi. Will the Prime | :53:56. | :54:02. | |
Minister ensure that the outcome of Article 50 negotiations will allow | :54:03. | :54:06. | |
the UK to secure this kind of valuable inward investment? I'm | :54:07. | :54:12. | |
pleased to say we have seen significant commitments to inward | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
investment both in the automotive industry over recent months and in | :54:18. | :54:25. | |
things like the Softbank takeover of Arm and in the UK and Qatar business | :54:26. | :54:30. | |
investment conference, Qatar is committing to setting up a ?5 | :54:31. | :54:37. | |
million fund to invest in our infrastructure in the UK. Can I say | :54:38. | :54:46. | |
respectfully to the Prime Minister that she talks about self did | :54:47. | :54:51. | |
termination, what's good for the goose is good for the gander and | :54:52. | :54:54. | |
will the Prime Minister please respect that the people of this | :54:55. | :55:01. | |
couple and voted to remain within Europe? Are democratically elected | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
parliament has now voted and is seeking a section 30 agreement from | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
this Government so that people of Scotland, on the basis we are being | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
dragged out of the EU against our will, have our right to say, and to | :55:16. | :55:22. | |
quote back to bust the 2014 referendum is disrespectful because | :55:23. | :55:25. | |
we were told our place in Europe was secure. Do the right thing, allow | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
the people of Scotland to have their say. I assume the honourable | :55:31. | :55:38. | |
gentleman was voting to leave the UK in that referendum and that would | :55:39. | :55:47. | |
have been a vote to leave the EU. While benefiting from free trade in | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
goods and services come we also benefit from free flow of data | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
across borders. In the nightmare scenario of Brexit without a data | :55:57. | :56:02. | |
agreement in place, British businesses would have to renegotiate | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
millions of contracts with the EU, so is it the Prime Minister's | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
understanding that we could not begin those negotiations until we | :56:12. | :56:18. | |
Brexit, so is preparing for those negotiations key for the British | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
economy? We recognise that the exchange of data is an issue we have | :56:25. | :56:28. | |
to address because it underpins so much that happens, as she won't know | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
the right new arrangements being brought into place in the EU in | :56:34. | :56:39. | |
terms of the directive. We will have to ensure that when we leave we have | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
arrangements in place to enable the necessary flow of data and I expect | :56:45. | :56:49. | |
that to be part of negotiations going forward. The European | :56:50. | :56:56. | |
Commission has confirmed into solutions will be complete by autumn | :56:57. | :57:03. | |
2018 and the Brexit resolution includes acknowledging that a | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
majority of people in Scotland voted to stay in the EU. The will of the | :57:08. | :57:13. | |
Scottish people was expressed for the transfer of powers to hold a | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
legal referendum, compatible with the Prime Minister, the EU and the | :57:18. | :57:24. | |
First Ministerspublicly expressed timetables. We have seen the EU | :57:25. | :57:32. | |
figures and institutions in respect to Scotland's Democratic voice, so | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
when will this Prime Minister respect them? I can only repeat what | :57:37. | :57:44. | |
I said, now is not the time for a second independence referendum. It's | :57:45. | :57:50. | |
important we work together to ensure we get the best possible deal for | :57:51. | :57:54. | |
everyone across the UK, including the people of Scotland. The Prime | :57:55. | :58:02. | |
Minister expresses confidence that a free trade agreement with the EU | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
would be secured or she will know any trade agreement requires a | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
mechanism to resolve disputes. She doesn't like the European Court of | :58:12. | :58:15. | |
Justice, so what did she want to put in its place and how much will it | :58:16. | :58:21. | |
cost? If you have a free-trade agreement it is important to have a | :58:22. | :58:27. | |
resolution body in place, and this will be part of negotiations. In her | :58:28. | :58:35. | |
letter, the Prime Minister promised that negotiations will take due | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
account of the specific interests of every region of the UK, so can she | :58:40. | :58:45. | |
tell us who's advice she will listen to two inch she is fully appraised | :58:46. | :58:51. | |
of the specific interests of the region of which my constituency | :58:52. | :58:56. | |
forms a part? We will work with the devolved administrations but also | :58:57. | :59:02. | |
listen to businesses and others across the UK as they make clear to | :59:03. | :59:09. | |
us their interrupts. I supported the remain campaign in the referendum | :59:10. | :59:12. | |
but unlike the Prime Minister I'd have been consistent in my view of | :59:13. | :59:18. | |
how damaging Brexit will be, while she carriers towards hard Brexit, | :59:19. | :59:23. | |
presumably a prisoner of the ideological Brexiteers on her own | :59:24. | :59:30. | |
benches. Can I ask about agencies that there will need to be | :59:31. | :59:34. | |
established, has she identified how many we will need to have up and | :59:35. | :59:39. | |
running and whether we will have the capacity to staff them? His role in | :59:40. | :59:46. | |
the premise when he says the Government is going for a hard | :59:47. | :59:51. | |
Brexit. We are not. I was clear in my statement today and in everything | :59:52. | :59:58. | |
in this chamber, we are looking for a comprehensive free trade agreement | :59:59. | :00:02. | |
with the EU. I believe we can achieve that. When will Scotland | :00:03. | :00:10. | |
receive the enhanced powers including over emigration promised | :00:11. | :00:16. | |
by the dense Secretary of State for Justice? In terms of powers that | :00:17. | :00:26. | |
have been repatriated to the UK from Brussels, we will enter discussions | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
with the devolved administrations about how those powers should best | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
be dealt with, whether they should remain in terms of UK frameworks or | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
be further evolved, but there will be significant decision making | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
powers coming to the devolved administrations? Eye with the Prime | :00:45. | :00:51. | |
Minister well in these negotiations. She carries a heavy burden on her | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
shoulders, the hopes of millions of people across the UK who look | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
forward to a bright future outside the EU, free from the Dick patient | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
of how our laws come and how our money is spent, and can I welcome | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
the fact her ministers have spent so much time on dealing with the issue | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, but during | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
these negotiations we may not have worked in Northern Ireland Assembly. | :01:23. | :01:30. | |
Can she tell us how the interrupts of Northern Ireland will be | :01:31. | :01:32. | |
represented during the ongoing negotiations? I would hope we can | :01:33. | :01:41. | |
ensure we do have a Northern Ireland Assembly in place, so we are able to | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
have that interlocutor in Northern Ireland as we go forward and take | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
the views of Northern Ireland Ford, and it's in all our interests to | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
work for that devolved government, not just for that reason but because | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
I think it is right for Northern Ireland. In the absence of such a | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
government we will continue to talk to political parties in Northern | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
Ireland would also take wider views from businesses and others about | :02:11. | :02:17. | |
their concerns for their interests within Northern Ireland and other | :02:18. | :02:25. | |
parts of the UK. For weeks the Prime Minister May it abundantly clear she | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
did not want the Scottish Parliament to vote in favour of a referendum on | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
independence, no one could have been left in any doubt as to her position | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
in this matter, but given that the Scottish parliament last night by | :02:39. | :02:45. | |
unambiguous majority in favour of a referendum on independence, | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
regardless of her personal preference and recognising her | :02:50. | :02:57. | |
commitment for constructive and respectful dialogue, will the Prime | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
Minister now respect that democratic decision? He is right, the Scottish | :03:01. | :03:09. | |
parliament was clear when it came to consider this issue, and as he says | :03:10. | :03:15. | |
there was a majority in favour of Article 30 but I was clear that now | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
is not the time for a second independence referendum, now is the | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
time for the UK to come together and focus on the historic decision that | :03:27. | :03:33. | |
we have taken and the negotiations we now have to ensure the right deal | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
for the whole UK, including the people of Scotland. The Prime | :03:39. | :03:45. | |
Minister said in July at the same time as promising a UK wide | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
agreement that she wanted to make this country work for everyone. This | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
week we see cuts to disability support in the shape of employment | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
allowance, so can she explain how Brexit Britain will be in need | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
different in delivering the socially just society she keeps promising? I | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
have set out my plans for a fairer society and looking ahead to the | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
various things we will put in place to ensure we have a society where | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
people can succeed on merit not privilege, a stronger economy where | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
people played by the same rules that he mentions welfare, powers relating | :04:28. | :04:34. | |
to welfare have been given to the Scottish Government and I understand | :04:35. | :04:42. | |
they have yet to use them. This morning I witnessed a construction | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
worker telling some eastern European workers that you lot can go home | :04:49. | :04:56. | |
now. Without guarantees to EU national friends, colleagues and | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
family, this is behaviour and rhetoric will only increase. So it | :05:01. | :05:07. | |
does the Prime Minister agreed that this is the time to show leadership | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
in granting unilaterally the rights of our EU national friends asked | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
Mike xenophobic behaviour. None of us want to see xenophobic saviour in | :05:19. | :05:26. | |
the UK, EU citizens have worked alongside us and contribute to our | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
economy and society, but then looking ahead I want to ensure a | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
reciprocal agreement for EU citizens here, the honourable lady shakes her | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
head. We have a duty to have a care for EU citizens. The Prime | :05:43. | :05:51. | |
Minister's commitment to get the best possible deal for the UK offers | :05:52. | :05:58. | |
little reassurance to rural Scotland because they're experienced from the | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
allocation of convergence, farm payments, two Scottish fishing being | :06:03. | :06:08. | |
expendable, shows where they are on a Conservative government priority | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
list. We understand the need for EU frameworks but could she offer | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
reassurance by confirming the powers over Scottish agriculture and | :06:20. | :06:22. | |
fishing will go to the Scottish parliament and that Scottish | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
officials will represent Scottish interests in negotiations? We want | :06:27. | :06:36. | |
to ensure we have a single market continuing within the UK, but as has | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
been clear from the honourable gentleman speaks up for Scottish | :06:43. | :06:49. | |
fishing, and I can assure him that agriculture and fishing will be | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
issues we take into account, recognising their importance for the | :06:56. | :07:02. | |
whole UK. Given the Prime Minister earlier compared the nation of | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
Scotland to the kids of Maidenhead, does she understand the UK is | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
composed of four nations and not one? Can she outline for us today | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
what practical concessions the UK Government has made to the devolved | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
government's concerns as part of the UK wide approach to article 54 is it | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
a case of lemmings unite as we leap off the Brexit cliff together? | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
There is a very simple point which is that across the United Kingdom | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
people voted in different ways at the referendum, but the majority of | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
the United Kingdom electorate voted to leave the European Union and the | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
government is respecting that vote. And we will continue to work with | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
the devolved administrations. We have taken into account that there | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
are many areas where we have common ground with the Scottish Government | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
in wanting a copper hands of access to the European single market. In | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
wanting to protect workers' rights and recognise the importance of | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
science and innovation. In all those, we have had common ground | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
with the Scottish Government but it is unfortunate they do not seem to | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
recognise where we do have common ground with them and are unable and | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
unwilling to acknowledge that. Today's statement is full of | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
cliches, platitudes and jingoism but no answers. When will the government | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
of Scotland, democratically elected to represent the nation of Scotland, | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
a nation devoted to remain in the EU, be given an opportunity to | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
contribute to supplying the facts and figures that are so lacking. He | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
has had one vacuous vowel and we do not need another one. -- vacuous | :08:48. | :08:54. | |
vow. He talks about representation in Scotland and he and his | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
colleagues represent Scottish constituencies in the UK Parliament | :08:59. | :09:05. | |
of which he is a constituent part. In an act of self determination, the | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
Scottish Parliament yesterday voted to hold an independence referendum. | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
The Prime Minister has repeatedly said, no will not be the time. | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
Nobody is planning to hold a referendum now. If I may paraphrase | :09:17. | :09:24. | |
Ruth Davidson, or part of now does she not understand? -- what part of | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
now. I will say to the honourable gentleman that I have answered | :09:32. | :09:33. | |
questions on this thread this afternoon and my position has not | :09:34. | :09:40. | |
changed. Thank you, Mr Speaker, while the Prime Minister was | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
deliberate killing -- delivering her Battenberg addressed earlier, she | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
indicated that she would continue to ignore Scotland but is she aware of | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
the comments of Tory SMP Annie Welles who says she does not respect | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
the sovereignty of the Scottish Parliament? And will she distance | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
herself from those remarks? Can I say to the honourable gentleman that | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
I did not say I would ignore the views of Scotland. In fact, in the | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
letter sent to President Tusk, we make it clear that the views of all | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
constituent parts of the UK will be taken into account in our | :10:12. | :10:19. | |
negotiations. As the Prime Minister has had difficulty with | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
constitutional issues, let me ask another question about workers' | :10:26. | :10:27. | |
rights. Can the Prime Minister pledged that employment rights for | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
women, that derive from EU legislation and ECJ rulings in | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
relation to equal pay, pregnancy, maternity and protection against | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
termination, will be retained and if so, can she outline the process is | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
to maintain those protections? In the speech that I set out in | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
Lancaster house, that I gave in January, I set out the key part of | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
our negotiations and workers' rights was a key part of that speech. In | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
further statements today and at other times, I have been clear that | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
this government wants to protect workers' rights and enhance workers' | :11:03. | :11:09. | |
rights. Many thanks, Mr Speaker. Ploughing on regardless, does the | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
Prime Minister simply feel that she can ride roughshod over the will of | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
the Scottish people on the EU and now the mandate of the Scottish | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
Government? Is the Prime Minister in denial or is this a deliberate | :11:22. | :11:28. | |
policy of disrespect? There is no question of riding roughshod over | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
the votes of anybody in the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom held a | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
referendum. This Parliament agreed that | :11:36. | :11:35. | |
the decision of leaving the European Union or not should be given to the | :11:36. | :11:44. | |
British people, people across all of the United Kingdom. They were given | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
that referendum and they chose to vote to leave the European Union and | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
the government is now respecting the result that referendum. Despite | :11:52. | :12:02. | |
having a majority in this House, there are a few facts are Prime | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
Minister needs to remember. In 2015, firstly the Tories only got 36% of | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
the vote in the UK. They got less than 15% of the vote in Scotland and | :12:13. | :12:19. | |
only one MP. Their worst performance since 1855. Last year, in the | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
Scottish Parliament election, the Ruth Davidson party was still only | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
third in the constituency votes. By contrast, the SNP government was | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
re-elected with the biggest vote share of any government in the | :12:31. | :12:39. | |
Europe. Within the manifesto, a to hold a referendum in Scotland. Why | :12:40. | :12:48. | |
then, and she says she has answered this question, does she think that | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
she can continue to stand at the dispatch box with no mandate in | :12:53. | :12:54. | |
Scotland and take control of the timing of the referendum? This is | :12:55. | :13:02. | |
the United Kingdom Parliament, and as the banister of the United | :13:03. | :13:05. | |
Kingdom, I have said and I continue to say that I think that now is not | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
the time for a second independence referendum. -- as the Prime Minister | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
of the United Kingdom. What we should be focusing on at this time | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
is working to ensure that we get the best deal for the whole of the | :13:20. | :13:26. | |
United Kingdom as we leave the EU. In both her statement today and in | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
her letter to President Tusk, the Prime Minister speaks of the | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
expectation that devolved government powers will be increased. I am sure | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
she will want to honour the promises made to win the referendum so can | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
she confirmed that one of the powers devolved to Scotland will include | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
immigration as promised by the Justice Secretary during the | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
campaign or is now not the time? The honourable gentleman will be aware | :13:51. | :13:52. | |
that the issue of immigration was one that was looked at in the Smith | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
Commission and it is not determined to be one of the issues that was | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
delegated. But I repeat what I have said in a letter and I have said | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
here again today, that as a result of the repatriation powers we will | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
see significant decision-making powers being given to the devolved | :14:10. | :14:12. | |
administrations over and above what they have today. The stated position | :14:13. | :14:26. | |
of the UK Government was that the UK is a family of nations, a | :14:27. | :14:32. | |
partnership of equals. Why, then, is the UK Prime Minister and her | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
Secretary of State for Scotland so disrespectful to the people and | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
Parliament of Scotland, and why are they running so scared of a Scottish | :14:41. | :14:48. | |
referendum 18 months to two years down the line? There is no | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
disrespect for anybody. But the raises respect for putting into | :14:53. | :14:55. | |
place a vote that was taken by the people of the United Kingdom on the | :14:56. | :15:05. | |
23rd of June last year. Last year, the Prime Minister gave her word | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
that she would seek an agreed United Kingdom approach on Brexit with the | :15:10. | :15:12. | |
devolved administrations. In order to assist us in making a judgment | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
about what the word is worth, can I ask her to give this House a single | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
example of a suggestion or request made by the Scottish Government | :15:24. | :15:26. | |
which she has taken on board? A single one, anyone. I have already | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
set out that there are many areas of issues that the Scottish Government | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
has raised in their paper on which we agree. As will become clearer | :15:38. | :15:44. | |
when we respond to that paper. Order. Patience rewarded. Thank you, | :15:45. | :15:52. | |
Mr Speaker. I wonder how the Prime Minister would have responded if | :15:53. | :15:55. | |
Donald Tusk and simply said that now is not the time. -- if Donald Tusk | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
had simply said. I think the honourable gentleman with his | :16:02. | :16:04. | |
background will know that the Treaty on the European Union enables the | :16:05. | :16:07. | |
member states to trigger Article 50 in the way that we have done and it | :16:08. | :16:10. | |
is then for the European Union to respond to that by sitting out the | :16:11. | :16:18. | |
basis -- setting out of the basis of two years of negotiation. Order, | :16:19. | :16:21. | |
order. We will come to a point of order in a moment but first of all | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
can I thank all 113 backbench members to question the Prime | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
Minister and can I thank the Prime Minister, who has been with us for | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
the last three hours and 21 minutes, attending to this statement for the | :16:34. | :16:40. | |
last two hours and 46 notes. I think in the name of courtesy, we ought to | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
say a big thank you to the Prime Minister. Point of order, Mr Tom | :16:45. | :16:51. | |
Brady. Mr Speaker, the Liberal Democrats believe that Brexit will | :16:52. | :16:54. | |
cause untold damage to the UK's economy and influence in the world. | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
But the government has triggered Article 50 so we will do all in our | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
power to ensure that it is a success. Mr Speaker, if it is not a | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
success, what guidance can you give me on how those responsible for any | :17:09. | :17:16. | |
such damage, the Prime Minister, the secretary straight for common | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
affairs, and exiting the EU, will truly be held to account in this | :17:22. | :17:26. | |
House for their actions and for their failure, and that the blame | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
will simply not be shifted to the Remainer is, the European Union or | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
anybody else they choose to blame? I do not wish to be unkind to the | :17:37. | :17:39. | |
right honourable gentleman who has served as a deputy leader of this | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
has no less. Possibly say to the honourable gentleman, two things, | :17:44. | :17:49. | |
first of all I am not all wary of entertaining hypotheticals, and at | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
the moment, the right honourable gentleman, perfectly legitimately, | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
is using the ruse of a point of order to raise a hypothetical. That | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
is the first point. The second point is, and the right honourable | :18:03. | :18:05. | |
gentleman knows this, all members of this House have not only a right | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
but, frankly, a responsibility on whichever side of the House they | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
sit, to hold the executive to account. That is a primary function | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
of a member of Parliament, and all I can say to the right honourable | :18:21. | :18:23. | |
gentleman is that however this situation evolves, he can rest | :18:24. | :18:31. | |
content that those who seek to hold the executive to account will always | :18:32. | :18:42. | |
have a friend in the chair. Point of order, Mrs Cheryl Gillan. Mr | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
Speaker, you and I and several other members of this House have taken | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
more than a passing interest in a project which is one of the largest | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
infrastructure projects in Europe, called HS2. And it has been brought | :18:56. | :19:02. | |
to my attention on the wires this afternoon that... On the wires? The | :19:03. | :19:12. | |
press Association, I believe it is known as the wires to those of us | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
who have been around as long as I have. Seriously, the engineering | :19:16. | :19:22. | |
firm that was handed ?170 million last month to develop phase two of | :19:23. | :19:30. | |
HS2 has announced that it is pulling out of that section of the project, | :19:31. | :19:39. | |
amid alleged conflicts of interest. CH2M is also the firm that has been | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
awarded a ?350 million deal to develop phase one of the line from | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
London to Birmingham. In the comments that came from the CH2M | :19:51. | :19:58. | |
spokesman, allegedly on the wire, it says that the protracted delays and | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
ongoing speculation risk further delays to this critical national | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
infrastructure, thereby increasing costs to UK taxpayers as well as to | :20:07. | :20:12. | |
the firm. It goes on to say that it is fully committed to delivering | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
phase one on time and within budget, Mr Speaker, this is a pretty amazing | :20:17. | :20:25. | |
announcement from one of the main contractors on HS2. I wondered if | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
you had had any indication at all from the Department for Transport | :20:31. | :20:32. | |
that a minister was intending to come here to the House and explain | :20:33. | :20:39. | |
this extraordinary state of affairs, because after all, this now raises | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
questions over large amounts of taxpayers money that are being sunk | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
into this project, and I think that this House needs to be the first to | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
know and not to read it on the press Association wires. I am grateful to | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
the honourable lady for her point of order to which I respond as follows. | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
First, very much in the margins of what the right honourable lady had | :21:03. | :21:04. | |
to say, this seems to be some for old browse. And moderately noisy | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
reactions to her reference to what she had heard on the wires. It seems | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
to be a fairly unexceptional observation that the right | :21:15. | :21:16. | |
honourable lady made. She will recall that the father in the House | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
-- the father of the House in the last Parliament would account to the | :21:21. | :21:28. | |
House what he had heard on the wireless that morning, by comparison | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
to which the right honourable lady's statement is positively modern. | :21:34. | :21:36. | |
Secondly I will say to her that this was news to me until a few moments | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
ago. It is certainly a significant element involving a large-scale | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
contractor and very significant sums of public money. I have received no | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
indication from a minister of any intention to make a statement on the | :21:50. | :21:52. | |
matter and that may be because there is so much -- no such intention or | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
it may be the courtesy of ministers not wanting to approach me while I | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
am attending to my duties in the chair. I feel that it may be a | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
triumph of optimism over reality but it is possible that may explain the | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
situation. I will say to the honourable lady that if memory | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
serves me correctly, we have questions to the Secretary of State | :22:12. | :22:14. | |
for Transport tomorrow and if the record is anything by which to | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
judge, which I expect it is, the right honourable lady will be in her | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
place and will almost certainly be an opportunity to raise this matter | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
with the Secretary of State. I look forward to that exchange with eager | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
anticipation, as I am sure does the House. If there are no further | :22:30. | :22:38. | |
points of order, we come now to the next business. In a moment I will | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
call Neil grade to make an application for leave to propose a | :22:43. | :22:45. | |
bait on a specific and important matter that should have urgent | :22:46. | :22:48. | |
consideration under the terms of standing order number 24. The | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
honourable gentleman has up to three minutes in which to make such an | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
application. Mr Neale Graver. Thank you, Mr Speaker, I take leave to | :23:00. | :23:02. | |
propose that the House should debate the specific and important matter | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
that should have urgent consideration, namely mitigating | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
support for the support allowance work group. We have known about this | :23:13. | :23:22. | |
that happening for some time. I have raised this issue in collaboration | :23:23. | :23:24. | |
with others on a cross-party basis on a number of occasions. The cut is | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
unanimously opposed by disability charities and disabled peoples | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
organisations -- disabled People's organisations. Next week the cut | :23:35. | :23:36. | |
comes into force on the House has not been given the information it | :23:37. | :23:39. | |
was promised about what the government is going to do to ensure | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
that the recipients, new and existing, are not financially | :23:44. | :23:46. | |
penalised. I will use the couple of minutes that I have to appeal to the | :23:47. | :23:49. | |
House for a fuller debate but also to the government. Next week, a cut | :23:50. | :23:59. | |
of one third to the income of recipients of ESARAG will begin, | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
?170 down to ?70 a week. That means that many disabled people found | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
unfit to work will be ?30 a week worse off, money desperately needed | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
to pay bills, stay healthy and undertake work-related activity such | :24:14. | :24:16. | |
as volunteering or attending courses. We already know that a | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
large proportion of those currently in receipt of ESARAG are struggling | :24:23. | :24:25. | |
to make ends meet on what they receive now. With that extra ?30 a | :24:26. | :24:32. | |
week we have no idea what the impact will be on them when ESARAG is cut | :24:33. | :24:39. | |
back. These are people with disabilities or mental health | :24:40. | :24:45. | |
conditions who want to work. They want to work but they are currently | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
unable. Bridging and deeper into poverty will hinder, not help, any | :24:52. | :24:54. | |
move towards employment. They are being faced with a double indignity, | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
Mr Speaker, of wanting to work but being unable to find a job and then | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
being told that the level of financial support that they are | :25:04. | :25:06. | |
struggling to live on is a disincentive to work. That should | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
shame cars. In November, MPs from eight Botaka parties plus | :25:12. | :25:17. | |
independents helped to unanimously carried emotion that are brought to | :25:18. | :25:20. | |
the House asking for the government to oppose these cuts. We were | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
promised that mitigations would be in place before next week but there | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
has been no oral statement, no written statement or announcement, | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
just a vague commitments to social tariffs and hardship funds. That is | :25:32. | :25:34. | |
no way to treat people desperate for support. I have been asking | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
questions. I did so on Monday and I do not take the lack of a proper | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
response personally as as the expert charities themselves have been | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
seeking this information only to receive the same vague responses. I | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
know that time is tight this week of all weeks. I understand that. But | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
time is not on the side of people who desperately need this board. | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
That is why I made this request of you, and why I am grateful to have | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
had some time to appeal to the government. It is not too late for | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
them to publish the support they have secured which they promised | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
will make up for the cut of the ?30 a week. This is the last chance that | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
we have to discuss this issue which has united members from across | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
Pliskova bides, before it is too late, before there is nothing to be | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
done. -- from across political divides. I hope ministers hear this | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
and please react. The honourable member asks leave to propose a | :26:30. | :26:32. | |
debate on a specific and important matter that should have urgent | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
consideration, namely mitigating support for employment support | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
allowance activity group. I have listened carefully to the | :26:42. | :26:43. | |
application from the honourable gentleman but I am afraid that I am | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
not persuaded that this matter is proper to be discussed, | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
understanding order number 24. As the honourable gentleman and his | :26:52. | :26:54. | |
colleagues will doubtless be aware, the standing order does not permit | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
me to give my reasons to the House. That said, and double certainly | :26:59. | :27:04. | |
today was the last opportunity for the honourable gentleman to seek | :27:05. | :27:07. | |
such a debate before we depart for the recess, the may well be an | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
opportunity for this matter to be debated in another way upon our | :27:13. | :27:19. | |
return. And I am sure that the honourable gentleman will eagerly | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
seize any such opportunity. If there are no further points of order we | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
come now to the ten minute rule motion which the honourable | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
gentleman the Member for Lee has been so patiently -- so patiently | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
waiting. Thank you, Mr Speaker, I beg to move that leave be given to | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
bring in a bill to set a requirement on public institutions, public | :27:44. | :27:46. | |
servants and officials, that those carrying out functions on their | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
behalf to act in the public interest and with candour and frankness, to | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
define the public law duty on them to assist courts, official quarries | :27:55. | :27:57. | |
and investigations to enable victims to enforce such duties, to great | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
offences for the breach of certain duties, to provide funding for | :28:03. | :28:04. | |
victims and the relatives in certain proceedings before the courts and at | :28:05. | :28:10. | |
official enquiries and investigations, and for connected | :28:11. | :28:12. | |
purposes. Mr Speaker, next month marks the 28th anniversary of the | :28:13. | :28:18. | |
Hillsborough disaster and the first anniversary of the historic verdict | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
of the second inquest. Whatever the sense of relief felt a year ago, it | :28:23. | :28:28. | |
will never wipe away the pain of the 27 Wilderness years between those | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
two events, and the intangible toll on thousands of lives. We await | :28:33. | :28:39. | |
accountability for that. All those years, the evidence sat in official | :28:40. | :28:45. | |
files, but our political, legal and colonial systems did not uncover it. | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
Nor did the media. Worse, they actively colluded in a cover-up, | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
advanced in the committee rooms of this House. I said again and I it | :28:55. | :29:00. | |
again today, Hillsborough must be a watershed moment in this country, a | :29:01. | :29:05. | |
point in history when the scales of justice are tipped firmly in favour | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
of ordinary families fighting for loved ones. This is what the public | :29:10. | :29:17. | |
authority accountability Bill, or Hillsborough Law, seeks to achieve. | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
It is a powerful Bill proposed and supported by all of the Hillsborough | :29:24. | :29:26. | |
families, and both the Hillsborough Family Support Group and the | :29:27. | :29:29. | |
Hillsborough Justice campaign. It has been developed with the help of | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
their lawyers and I pay particular tribute to Peter Weatherby QC in | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
this regard. As an aside, Mr Speaker, it happens to be the last | :29:39. | :29:41. | |
bill that will be prepared by Mr Glenn McKee from the public Bill | :29:42. | :29:48. | |
office, who, after 34 years here, retires tomorrow. I am sure that | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
colleagues on both sides will join me in paying tribute to an | :29:54. | :29:59. | |
exceptional servant to this House and to our democracy. The bill has | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
formidable backing from other justice campaigns, including | :30:04. | :30:09. | |
Inquest, many in the legal profession and honourable member is | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
on both sides. Its aim is simple, to protect other families from going | :30:14. | :30:16. | |
through what the Hillsborough families went through and from a | :30:17. | :30:19. | |
similar miscarriage of justice. It empowers victims to ensure | :30:20. | :30:28. | |
disclosure of crucial information and prevent public authorities lying | :30:29. | :30:30. | |
to them or hiding the truth by making that an imprisonable offence. | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
-- and imprisonable offence. It empowers police officers to stand up | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
to seniors trying to make them stick to a misleading corporate lie. It | :30:41. | :30:43. | |
makes it an offence for such a line to be peddled to the media. | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
Crucially, it reached a level legal playing field at inquests for | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
bereaved families so that finally inquests become what they should | :30:52. | :30:54. | |
always be, a vehicle to get to the truth. After last year's verdict, | :30:55. | :31:01. | |
the chair of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, Margaret Aspinall, | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
came here to speak of her experience in the early 1990s. I don't think | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
anyone who was at that meeting will ever forget her talking about her | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
pain when she was sent a Kalimantan official letter with a cheque for | :31:13. | :31:18. | |
?1226 which was supposed to represent compensation for James' | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
life. She spoke about how she was forced to cash against her will | :31:25. | :31:27. | |
because she could not find the money to pay it against ?3000 share of the | :31:28. | :31:33. | |
families' legal costs. She said, making a mother like myself accept a | :31:34. | :31:36. | |
pittance to fight to cars, the guilt this has lived with me for the past | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
28 years. It would be at least something if we could say that this | :31:42. | :31:44. | |
would not happen today. But sadly we cannot. Since the Hillsborough | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
verdict, the families of those who died in 1974 in the Birmingham pub | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
bombings have, quite wrongly and unbelievably, been made to beg for | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
legal aid. There are thousands of other hidden individual cases where | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
bereaved families are denied legal representation while the public | :32:05. | :32:07. | |
bodies that they are up against in court spend public money like water | :32:08. | :32:13. | |
hiring the best QCs in the land, as cuts to legal aid bite -- in the | :32:14. | :32:20. | |
land. As cuts to legal aid bite, the problem gets worse. There was a | :32:21. | :32:26. | |
young boy who died as part of the national cuts in 2014. His parents | :32:27. | :32:31. | |
believe that the problem was caused by contaminated landfill. Scientists | :32:32. | :32:34. | |
were called onto the site and the case was discussed at Cobra. Despite | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
this, the family were denied legal aid. They arrived at the inquest to | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
find themselves up against a phalanx of top QCs and left feeling as | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
though they had been put on trial. They are still fighting for and | :32:47. | :32:50. | |
today as to what happened to their child. Consider the | :32:51. | :33:10. | |
experience of distracting the force from the Milly Dowler investigation, | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
an accusation with no foundation. My wife and I were made to feel that we | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
were on trial and our families undermined at every opportunity, he | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
said after the verdict. The brutal and uncomfortable truth is this, Mr | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
Speaker. Bereaved families are not just denied legal assistance, they | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
have their character questioned and denigrated by lawyers or public | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
bodies. They are thrown into courtrooms, roll with grief, pitched | :33:36. | :33:38. | |
into an adversarial battle and effectively put on trial. -- raw | :33:39. | :33:44. | |
with grief. How long will we in here led vast sums of public money be | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
used to torment families in this way? If the state can cover up 96 | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
deaths at a football match, shouldn't we be concerned of what it | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
might do to individuals? The Hillsborough Family Support Group | :33:58. | :33:59. | |
has asked me to say this to the House today. For the good of the | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
nation there should be a level playing field of inquests. The | :34:05. | :34:07. | |
grief, pain and heartache is enough for families to deal with. They | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
should not have to deal with money worries or beg for public funds to | :34:12. | :34:14. | |
get to the truth. Their powerful call for quality of arms has support | :34:15. | :34:21. | |
including from Peter Thornton QC, the former chief coroner. To those | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
who say it will add costs, I disagree. The practical effect of | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
clause four would be to create a new incentive for public bodies to limit | :34:30. | :34:32. | |
of their own legal expenditure. And by making them come clean at the | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
outset, the bill will cut the length of inquests and enquiries, thereby | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
making considerable savings. It would promote good public | :34:41. | :34:43. | |
administration and promote public confidence in the police. Most | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
importantly, it will rebalance our legal system in favour of ordinary | :34:49. | :34:51. | |
people. Until then, the true lesson of Hillsborough will not have been | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
learned. What has disappointed me most are in the last year is to see | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
how things have reverted to business as usual, for the establishment | :35:00. | :35:01. | |
teams that Hillsborough was the one that got away rather than what it | :35:02. | :35:04. | |
should have been, the catalyst for change. I see this with sadness as I | :35:05. | :35:10. | |
truly hope it would be the latter, but of elements over the last year | :35:11. | :35:13. | |
suggest otherwise. Alongside the shoddy treatment of the Birmingham | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
families we have the refusal of an enquiry into Orgreave on the basis | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
that nobody died. If that is now the Home Secretary's benchmark for the | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
wrongdoing can be investigated, God help us all. Nobody died at | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
Orgreave, true, but innocent people were wrongly and maliciously | :35:31. | :35:33. | |
prosecuted in the country should know how that came to be. Nobody | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
died during the building workers dispute of the early 1970s, either, | :35:38. | :35:40. | |
but it does not mean that we should not be told the truth about the | :35:41. | :35:43. | |
politically motivated Shrewsbury show trial and what I believe was a | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
serious miscarriage of justice. Then there | :35:47. | :36:05. | |
is the treatment of victims of contaminated blood. Arguably the | :36:06. | :36:07. | |
greatest injustice of all. They had been led up to the top of the hill | :36:08. | :36:10. | |
only to be let down once again. As with Hillsborough, clear evidence of | :36:11. | :36:13. | |
serious wrongdoing is there if only people care to look for it. I have | :36:14. | :36:15. | |
seen evidence that medical records were altered without people's | :36:16. | :36:17. | |
consent and false entries included. That is potentially a criminal | :36:18. | :36:19. | |
matter. Next month, I hope to persuade you to allow me to use the | :36:20. | :36:22. | |
adjournment to present a dossier of such evidence, just as amended | :36:23. | :36:24. | |
police statements reopened Hillsborough. I believe that | :36:25. | :36:25. | |
evidence of amended medical records must reopen the contaminated blood | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
scandal. The fact that these victims remain in the darkest of | :36:30. | :36:38. | |
wildernesses show that Hillsborough has not changed our country yet but | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
I am hopeful that it will do so. If this bill becomes law, it will trade | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
a permanent legislative legacy for the 96 people who died on April 15 | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
1989. Last year, the Prime Minister has the right reverend bishop James | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
Jones to conduct a review of the experience of the Hillsborough | :36:56. | :36:58. | |
families. On the half of the House I would like to thank the Bishop for | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
his incredible service to those families and everybody affected by | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
the tragedy and respectfully ask him to consider adopting this bill as | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
part of his recommendations. In this country, we like to talk of | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
ourselves as a paragon of democracy and the rule of law. But I finish, | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
Mr Speaker, by asking this of every member in this House. Think of the | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
constituents that you have met and your surgeries who have spent years | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
fighting for justice. Picture now the lines on their faces, the black | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
shadows beneath their eyes. Then ask yourself this, is this country they | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
to people who, through no fault of their own, find themselves fighting | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
for loved ones? We all mouldy answer. No. The fight is too hard | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
and it takes too great a tall, is too hard and it takes too great a | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
tall, it grinds people down. To claim. -- it takes too great a toll. | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
There is a possibility that I will not be in this House long enough to | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
see this bill become a law, but I have enough faith in the humanity of | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
both sides that one day it will. The question is that the right | :38:10. | :38:12. | |
honourable member have leave to bring in the bill. As many as are of | :38:13. | :38:19. | |
that opinion say aye. The contrary, no. The ayes have it, the ayes have | :38:20. | :38:24. | |
it. Who brings in the Bill? Steve Rotherham, Maria legal, Derek Twigg, | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
Alison McGovern, the Leicester seven, Sir -- Sir Peter Bottomley, | :38:30. | :38:37. | |
Jess Phillips, Tim Farron, Mark Durkin, Christopher Stevens, | :38:38. | :38:39. | |
Caroline Lucas, Alec Shelbrooke and myself, Mr Speaker. | :38:40. | :38:53. | |
Public authority accountability bill. Second reading what they? | :38:54. | :39:26. | |
Friday 12th of May. Order. We now come to the emergency debate under | :39:27. | :39:28. | |
Standing Order number 24. Debbie Abrahams. Thank you, Mr Speaker, and | :39:29. | :39:40. | |
thank you for granting this vital debate on the new personal | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
independence payment regulations. While I welcome the chance to debate | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
this issue, it's highly regrettable the Government has had to be dragged | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
to the House to take account for this nasty piece of legislation. The | :39:54. | :39:58. | |
Government has ignored to urgent questions on this matter, and early | :39:59. | :40:05. | |
day motion signed by 179 members calling on these punitive | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
regulations to be annulled, and over 185,000 people who signed the | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
petition asking the Government not to make these changes. When pushed | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
at business questions last Thursday, the Leader of the House said there | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
would be a debate but not when, and last night it became clear that the | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
19th of April has now been scheduled. What kind of arrogance or | :40:30. | :40:35. | |
disregard for democracy is the Government revealing? This does not | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
go well for a accountability to this place in future negotiations. For | :40:41. | :40:47. | |
the record, today's debate does not allow a substantive vote on the | :40:48. | :40:52. | |
regulations and big cars the Government has not allowed a debate | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
before the EDM period comes to an end on the 3rd of April, they will | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
not be automatically revoked should the House vote against them on the | :41:03. | :41:08. | |
19th. I would be grateful for an explanation as to why when we rose | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
twice this week the Government could not find time for this debate before | :41:13. | :41:18. | |
the Easter recess. By delaying the debate the Government hopes the | :41:19. | :41:21. | |
objection to these regulations will be kicked into the long grass but it | :41:22. | :41:29. | |
will not. Let's remind ourselves how these emergency regulations were | :41:30. | :41:31. | |
introduced and what they'd changed. I will. I'm grateful to her for | :41:32. | :41:39. | |
giving way and thank her own behalf of many of my constituents for | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
bringing about this motion does she agree that the least we owe it to | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
people who through no fault of their own have found themselves in | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
difficult circumstances is to tell them whether the appalling impact on | :41:53. | :41:55. | |
their incomes of decisions made clear were voted for? He makes an | :41:56. | :42:03. | |
excellent point, and this is what we have been trying to do since these | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
of urgency regulations were laid down. These regulations laid down | :42:08. | :42:15. | |
before the House on the 23rd of February and amended the legislation | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
by which people with a chronic condition are to be assessed for | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
eligibility to personal independence payment. They came into force two | :42:24. | :42:29. | |
weeks ago. The new regulations followed to tribunal rulings, the | :42:30. | :42:36. | |
first judgment in November 2016 held that needing support to take | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
medication and monitoring a health condition should be scored in the | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
same way as needing support to monitor therapy like dialysis at | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
home. The second one ruled that people who find it difficult to | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
leave their house because of severe psychological distress should in C | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
-- should receive the enhanced rate of support. In a letter to me last | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
week the Secretary of State said he became aware of these rulings in | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
December. To win the half months later the Government laid there are | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
emergency regulation. I'm sure the arrows me of something taking two | :43:16. | :43:20. | |
and a half months being an urgency has not been lost on you, Mr | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
Speaker. In this time not only were the Government unable to bring these | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
regulations to the size but they bypassed their own Social Security | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
Advisory committee and ignored recommendations for wider engagement | :43:36. | :43:39. | |
to present the changes and analysed their impacts. Isn't that the point | :43:40. | :43:47. | |
that those legal cases broadened the provisions and this order that is | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
under debate is just trying to restore what the policy has been and | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
should be to target support of those who need it most? I will come onto | :43:58. | :44:04. | |
this in a moment because unfortunately members have been | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
hoodwinked by this and I will expose what the Government has said around | :44:10. | :44:16. | |
this. The move undermines and suburbs not just our democracy but | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
independent tribunal judgments. It is unprecedented and should concern | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
us about future action the Government may take in other court | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
cases they lose. It is also unusual for such a fundamental change to be | :44:31. | :44:35. | |
introduced by a negative statutory incident in this way, bypassing | :44:36. | :44:42. | |
debate in this House. It is clear from the huge number of cases I have | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
dealt with but the entire pep system is flawed, it results in appalling | :44:48. | :44:53. | |
decisions and causes distress to thousands of disabled people and | :44:54. | :44:59. | |
their families. There should be an independent review of how | :45:00. | :45:02. | |
assessments are carried out, given the obvious failings in the system. | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
I think she is right, there have been long-term issues around the PAP | :45:08. | :45:15. | |
assessment process but it is interesting, I think it was | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
yesterday that the Government that out but they would be announcing a | :45:20. | :45:25. | |
recent review but tomorrow, just when we have risen for recess. It's | :45:26. | :45:32. | |
a highly unusual situation that we have introduced this negative | :45:33. | :45:39. | |
statutory instrument in this way. On Monday the other place passed a | :45:40. | :45:45. | |
regret motion tabled by Baroness Sherlock asking the Government to | :45:46. | :45:48. | |
reconsider this regulation that this has been denied in the vital period. | :45:49. | :45:56. | |
This is very worrying behaviour from the Government. The minister claims | :45:57. | :46:04. | |
these changes restore PIP do with original policy intentions but they | :46:05. | :46:08. | |
do not hold water. During the consultation in 2012, ministers were | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
quoted saying mental health conditions would be given parity | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
with physical health as part of that PIP assessment. This one from Esther | :46:19. | :46:26. | |
McVey, the assessment was designed to consider intellectual and | :46:27. | :46:32. | |
cognitive impairment stop... The Samaritans produced a report which | :46:33. | :46:41. | |
points to significant association between socioeconomic advantage and | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
suicidal behaviour. The report found that those already vulnerable | :46:47. | :46:52. | |
individuals such as those supported by social welfare with pre-existing | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
mental health problems are at greater risk. It is shocking that | :46:58. | :47:03. | |
the Government have not looked at the risk of suicide for those who | :47:04. | :47:06. | |
will be denied support for their mental health. I agree, and another | :47:07. | :47:15. | |
honourable friend gave a moving account of how one of her | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
constituents was a fact did buy this and unfortunately took their own | :47:20. | :47:27. | |
life last week, and I will. Does my honourable friend I agree the | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
Government seems to be in a place where the NHS is catching up with | :47:33. | :47:35. | |
the need to treat mental health conditions properly at the other | :47:36. | :47:42. | |
public services, whether DWP or the Prison Service, is stuck in the past | :47:43. | :47:49. | |
and this must change. My honourable friend is right and this makes a | :47:50. | :47:52. | |
mockery of the claim around parity of esteem. If I could finish this | :47:53. | :48:00. | |
point, my honourable friend mentions rightly about what the NHS is trying | :48:01. | :48:08. | |
to do but sadly there are still issues with treatment for mental | :48:09. | :48:12. | |
health conditions. I will make some progress and then come back. The | :48:13. | :48:18. | |
Government's response to the PIP consultation reiterated that | :48:19. | :48:23. | |
psychological distress would be included in the assessment, as did | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
the Government in the Upper tribunal case of each bell wire the Secretary | :48:28. | :48:36. | |
of State for Work and Pensions. Investors also said people with | :48:37. | :48:39. | |
mental health disorders who suffer psychological distress would not | :48:40. | :48:44. | |
lose out on PIP but under the new guidelines for assessment issued | :48:45. | :48:50. | |
this March, it says descriptors see, the and Beth are amended and the | :48:51. | :48:59. | |
effects of psychological distress, are not relevant -- C, D and R. They | :49:00. | :49:10. | |
cannot score the 12 points needed if they are to get the enhanced PIP | :49:11. | :49:16. | |
mobility rate, so instead of ?57 per week they were now only get ?22 a | :49:17. | :49:25. | |
week. In recent months I have had 44 PIP cases in my constituency, dozens | :49:26. | :49:31. | |
going to appeal. Of the eight that I've gone to appeal, everyone has | :49:32. | :49:39. | |
been overturned. This is a massive and inexcusable waste of time, money | :49:40. | :49:44. | |
and resources. I think the red two points I would like to make, first | :49:45. | :49:52. | |
of all the Association of bill health and disability around former | :49:53. | :49:59. | |
industrial areas. And then, as he says, about the impact of these | :50:00. | :50:06. | |
assessments and they cannot be got right first time, why is that? Why | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
has the Government not been able to get these assessments right first | :50:12. | :50:17. | |
time? Will he give me two minutes? I will make a little more progress. | :50:18. | :50:23. | |
Someone who experiences psychological distress because of a | :50:24. | :50:25. | |
mental health condition can score at ten points for the river Dee of | :50:26. | :50:31. | |
planning and following a journey unless they also have a cognitive | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
sensory or physical empowerment, falling short of the 12 points | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
needed to qualify for the higher rate. In a 2016 case the upper | :50:41. | :50:48. | |
tribunal ruled that psychological distress by itself cannot satisfy | :50:49. | :50:56. | |
descriptors under activity two unless the psychological distress | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
causes a change in someone's physical condition, so it is these | :51:01. | :51:06. | |
regulations, not the rulings, that undermine the intention of the | :51:07. | :51:11. | |
primary legislation by restricting people with ability severely limited | :51:12. | :51:16. | |
by their mental health condition from qualifying for the advanced | :51:17. | :51:25. | |
rate. I thank her for giving way, it's important we get these | :51:26. | :51:30. | |
regulations right but with the Shadow Minister accept that more | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
people with mental health conditions qualify under PAP than under old DLA | :51:35. | :51:43. | |
regulations? No, I would not, the mental health charity Mind has | :51:44. | :51:51. | |
produced data which shows that 55% of DLA claimants who are supported | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
with a mental health condition will receive no or a reduced level when | :51:57. | :52:03. | |
they transferred to PIP, so it is another fallacy from this | :52:04. | :52:06. | |
Government... I thank her for giving weight again. She might have | :52:07. | :52:11. | |
suggested members on this side have been hoodwinked, I'm sure she was | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
not suggesting the minister plays with other than a straight bat, and | :52:17. | :52:22. | |
over a quarter of those on PIP received the highest level of | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
support, much higher then working age payments under the old DLA, so | :52:28. | :52:32. | |
isn't this targeting resources at those who need it most? I don't see | :52:33. | :52:42. | |
the logic at all. It doesn't make sense, I'm sorry, I will certainly | :52:43. | :52:50. | |
come onto that in a bit more detail because we must dispel some of the | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
fallacies that this Government has come out with over the last few | :52:56. | :53:01. | |
weeks. Before he intervenes, there are ten other members who wish to | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
make speeches in the debate, including the minister, the | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
honourable lady is being generous that not only with her own time but | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
with time that would otherwise be available to others and may want to | :53:17. | :53:20. | |
tailor her contribution accordingly. I wouldn't take much credence from | :53:21. | :53:28. | |
planted with's questions from the backbench, but the other element of | :53:29. | :53:32. | |
this which is concerning is those people who when they fail and | :53:33. | :53:37. | |
assessment can make their mental health position worse and in some | :53:38. | :53:40. | |
cases it ends up with them going into hospital, another cost to the | :53:41. | :53:49. | |
NHS. I couldn't agree more, that is such irrelevant point and it hasn't | :53:50. | :53:54. | |
been factored into this in the silo approach this Government is taking. | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
The third justification used for bringing in these regulations is | :53:59. | :54:05. | |
that PIP is more generous to those with mental health conditions and | :54:06. | :54:11. | |
the mental health charity repeats this, their database on the DWP's | :54:12. | :54:18. | |
own statistics revealed that 55% of people with mental health conditions | :54:19. | :54:24. | |
previously supported by the late get reduced or no awards when they | :54:25. | :54:32. | |
transferred to PIP. The Government's own data shows only 12% of people | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
with mental health disorder or another condition are on the | :54:37. | :54:42. | |
enhanced award. These regulations are just a shameful cut, the | :54:43. | :54:46. | |
Government balancing books on the back of the sick and disabled. The | :54:47. | :54:55. | |
new regulations will affect more than 120,000 people by 2023, many of | :54:56. | :55:01. | |
these will be new applicants but also those being reassessed. They | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
will not be eligible for the full support they would have been | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
entitled to under the tribunal's rulings, and accepted cut of ?3.7 | :55:12. | :55:13. | |
billion. Pip helps people who are disabled to | :55:14. | :55:23. | |
fund their living costs. The disability charity Scope has | :55:24. | :55:26. | |
estimated that these additional costs amount to ?550 a month. And | :55:27. | :55:32. | |
the key reason disabled people are twice as likely to live in poverty | :55:33. | :55:38. | |
as non-disabled people. For someone who may not be able to leave their | :55:39. | :55:41. | |
own home on their own, it will help with heating costs or it may pay for | :55:42. | :55:44. | |
someone to assist them when they have to travel to medical | :55:45. | :55:48. | |
apartments. Pip is a vital source of income to prevent hardship and to | :55:49. | :55:52. | |
the shame of this government, they are denying this support. I thank | :55:53. | :56:02. | |
you for giving way. Do you also agree that being able to receive the | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
Pip funding is also part of somebody's rehabilitation to help | :56:07. | :56:13. | |
them back into the workplace? Absolutely. My honourable friend has | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
first-hand experience of that in her former professional capacity. I have | :56:19. | :56:21. | |
been contacted by so many people telling me their stories of living | :56:22. | :56:24. | |
with a severe mental health problem and how this affects them, including | :56:25. | :56:28. | |
men and women from the armed and emergency services. I just wanted to | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
share Bob's story with you. Bob started in the police service in | :56:34. | :56:36. | |
Liverpool and then went into the prison service. After 20 years, he | :56:37. | :56:40. | |
said he started to experience the need to escape from the cells and | :56:41. | :56:43. | |
inmates by locking himself into the rest room for a few minutes. Over | :56:44. | :56:49. | |
the years, this graduated to cluster headaches and a full-blown anxiety | :56:50. | :56:52. | |
and panic attacks. After a period of sick leave, he left the service. The | :56:53. | :56:57. | |
attacks continued, though, and he eventually sought psychiatric | :56:58. | :57:02. | |
treatment, when he was declared disabled by virtue of his | :57:03. | :57:06. | |
debilitating anxiety attacks. The degree of disability fluctuated, but | :57:07. | :57:09. | |
at times he said it was so severe that he would run from a shopping | :57:10. | :57:12. | |
centre into a car just to feel safe. He said he wanted to work, but when | :57:13. | :57:16. | |
he went for a job interview, he had an attack in the car and by the time | :57:17. | :57:20. | |
he got home, he could barely function, hyperventilating and | :57:21. | :57:26. | |
unable to move. It is people like Bob that these new regulations will | :57:27. | :57:32. | |
deny support too. These changes to Pip come on top of significant cuts | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
to our social security system, with support for disabled people being | :57:38. | :57:40. | |
particularly targeted. Scope has estimated the impacts of the 2012 | :57:41. | :57:45. | |
wealth reform act alone will see nearly ?30 billion of cuts in | :57:46. | :57:47. | |
support of 3.7 million disabled people. Next week as we have heard, | :57:48. | :57:54. | |
another ?30 a week will be cut from disabled people who are found not | :57:55. | :58:02. | |
fit for work. The disabled community is tired of this government's | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
rhetoric. They want and need to be treated with dignity, not plunged | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
further into poverty. There is plenty of new evidence to show that | :58:12. | :58:15. | |
this is what is happening since 2010. Will the minister now publish | :58:16. | :58:21. | |
a cumulative impact assessment of all changes and the impact it will | :58:22. | :58:26. | |
have on disabled people? For some time now, there has been concern | :58:27. | :58:33. | |
about the way Pip is working. 65% of those who appeal to the tribunal | :58:34. | :58:40. | |
succeed. Over a quarter of all Pip assessments are challenged and | :58:41. | :58:43. | |
referred for mandatory reconsideration, with the majority | :58:44. | :58:46. | |
of these decisions changed. So why can't we get these assessments right | :58:47. | :58:51. | |
first time? More than 750 people a week are losing the Motability cars | :58:52. | :58:56. | |
because of changes to entitlement when moving to Pip. This is | :58:57. | :59:00. | |
counter-productive for so many disabled people that it makes it | :59:01. | :59:04. | |
nigh impossible for them to work, let alone enable them to live | :59:05. | :59:07. | |
independently. We should never forget that nine out of ten | :59:08. | :59:10. | |
disabilities are acquired. It could happen to any of us. That is what | :59:11. | :59:16. | |
our social security system is for. It is there to provide support for | :59:17. | :59:22. | |
any of us in our time of need. Labour will stand with disabled | :59:23. | :59:25. | |
people who have already borne the brunt of seven years of austerity | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
and injustice. I do not believe that given the choice, the British public | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
would choose cuts in corporation tax over pushing disabled people into | :59:36. | :59:41. | |
destitution or worse. It is exactly a week since the horrendous attack | :59:42. | :59:46. | |
in Westminster, when four people including our colleague PC Keith | :59:47. | :59:50. | |
Palmer were murdered and 50 were injured. The following day, the | :59:51. | :59:54. | |
Prime Minister quite rightly said that she was" looking at what | :59:55. | :00:00. | |
further support can be made available for victims in a wider | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
sense, because there will be people who were not physically injured in | :00:05. | :00:08. | |
the attack, but for whom there may be other scars. It is important to | :00:09. | :00:15. | |
provide that support". But the fact is that with these new regulations, | :00:16. | :00:21. | |
support for people suffering psychological distress is being | :00:22. | :00:25. | |
restricted. Warm words need to be backed up with action. No more cuts | :00:26. | :00:28. | |
in support is on disabled people. Enough is enough. The question is | :00:29. | :00:35. | |
that this House has considered changes to personal independence | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
payment regulations. Can I politely suggest to the House that we weren't | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
at this stage have a formal time limit on backbench speeches, but if | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
each backbench contributor feels able to confine him or herself to | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
five or six minutes or thereabouts, everyone will get in. We will start | :00:56. | :01:03. | |
with the sage from Swindon. Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is a pleasure to | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
speak in this debate. Having spent 14 happy months as the minister | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
responsible for this area, I wanted to pass on some of my observations | :01:15. | :01:20. | |
during that time. To be clear, the stakeholders of the charities do | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
recognise that Pip is a better benefit than DLA. It isn't perfect. | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
There is much more to do to deliver further improvements, but the stats | :01:29. | :01:37. | |
show why it is better. And the DLA, only 16.5% of claimants accessed the | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
highest rate of benefit. Under Pip, that is over 25%. It is particularly | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
better at identifying those with hidden impairments, including mental | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
health, where under DLA only 22% of claimants with a mental health | :01:53. | :01:54. | |
condition access to the higher rate of benefit, where it is 66% under | :01:55. | :02:06. | |
Pip. This is why the improvements have seen the government spending an | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
additional ?3 billion helping those with long term disabilities, which | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
is around 6% of all government spending. Understandably, in all the | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
debates I have attended, people say yes, there is a 65% success rate of | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
appeals, so surely the quality of assessment is not good enough. That | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
is why we have to look at what is going wrong. The majority of the | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
successful appeals are because of late additional submitted evidence. | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
It is these areas we must look to improve. If the system is so good, | :02:39. | :02:44. | |
why do people need to come and see us? We have an almost 100% success | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
rate of getting what that person is entitled to without any intervention | :02:50. | :02:57. | |
from any of us. Because presumably, when a claimant comes to speak to | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
any of us as members of Parliament, we will talk to them about where | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
they feel the decision wasn't right. When they get the letter that | :03:06. | :03:07. | |
doesn't give them the benefit they were hoping for, it spells out why. | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
And that normally triggers the claimant to think they have not | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
considered this particular challenge and they will then submit additional | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
late evidence, and then it is looked at again and a different decision is | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
arrived at, which doesn't mean the original decision was wrong based on | :03:25. | :03:27. | |
the facts presented, which is one of the reasons why I am keen to see a | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
way the assessors can automatically assessed the medical records for the | :03:35. | :03:41. | |
claimant with their consent. For a lot of people, you have to fill in | :03:42. | :03:49. | |
your 50 page form. And you sometimes understate the challenges you face. | :03:50. | :04:01. | |
He is wrong. With my constituents, the assessors don't even consider | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
the evidence, even when it is taken with them. And when I have | :04:05. | :04:07. | |
intervened, that is when it gets overturned. The system is not | :04:08. | :04:15. | |
working. Well, I am not wrong. The majority of successful appeals are | :04:16. | :04:18. | |
because of late additional submitted evidence. I appreciate the | :04:19. | :04:30. | |
honourable gentleman giving way. In my constituency, people are taking | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
deckchairs at early hours of the morning, 5am or 6am, in order to | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
queue outside Citizens Advice Bureau. Isn't this thirsty adding to | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
the stress, and shouldn't it be clearer that they can get the | :04:45. | :04:52. | |
assessment that they need? I am trying to explain what we can do to | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
help improve... There are cases where there are mistakes. 1.5 | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
million people are going through the Pip process. But we know the Pip | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
process is better than DLA because we are spending ?3 billion more and | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
the success rate to get those with the highest rate of challenges on to | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
the highest rate of benefit is the proof in the pudding. But this | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
debate is because there has been a legal judgment that has suggested | :05:19. | :05:20. | |
that there are areas where additional money should be spent. As | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
I have argued when we had the urgent question, if we are going to spend | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
money to make further improvements, it needs to be done in a coordinated | :05:29. | :05:36. | |
manner, not in an ad hoc way. The way this works is, we have lots of | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
impressive charities with great policy teams, and they come in and | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
lobby based on the experiences of their users. We as MPs also raise | :05:44. | :05:56. | |
suggestions for improvements. We have already seen significant | :05:57. | :06:04. | |
changes. The much-needed changes for claimants, the fact that waiting | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
times have improved after a difficult start when Pip was first | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
rolled out, as we chance for people from DLA to Pip, it is rightly being | :06:13. | :06:19. | |
done so as not to compromise waiting times. The assessment qualities are | :06:20. | :06:28. | |
improving month on month. There are more areas to work on, but I have | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
spent many times meeting the smaller charities where you have less common | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
conditions coming forward, who would then spend time helping train the | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
assessors, rewriting the manual so that they are picked up in the | :06:44. | :06:51. | |
assessment. And also for the first time, looking at the timings of when | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
people should come back for reassessment. Under the old DLA | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
system, 70% of claimants were on a lifetime award. But one in three | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
claimants' condition changes significantly within 12 months and | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
they should be on a different benefit, the majority of which were | :07:08. | :07:10. | |
getting worse, not better and should be entitled to a higher rate of | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
benefit. But a lot of people did and then phone up and say can I present | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
myself for reassessment, so they were missing out on the benefits | :07:18. | :07:18. | |
they should have entered at a lower rate | :07:19. | :07:33. | |
of benefit and they can see that you are likely to worsen in your | :07:34. | :07:35. | |
condition and would access a higher rate of benefit, it will | :07:36. | :07:37. | |
automatically assess when that should be and that will trigger a | :07:38. | :07:39. | |
reassessment to make sure people most in need get that money at the | :07:40. | :07:46. | |
best possible time. I do not always agree with the Government on well | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
for, but I believe the assessments have been improving. My concerns are | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
that the 50 page application form is not improving and people are | :07:55. | :08:01. | |
struggling. And access to the assessments where people are being | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
put in taxis for up to an hour is also an increasing problem. My | :08:05. | :08:11. | |
honourable friend was one of the greatest advocates for pushing for | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
changes and I had many constructive and challenging meetings with him as | :08:17. | :08:19. | |
he brought forward suggestions. That is the point, to look at this in a | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
coordinated manner. There are further improvements for the | :08:25. | :08:27. | |
application form and the way some of the descriptors are applied. The | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
Government is considering ordering the automatic recording of all | :08:34. | :08:36. | |
assessments so that that can be used in the appeal, and that would | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
benefit both the assessors and the claimants who have been asking for | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
this. Broadly, I agree that the Pip process is a work in progress and | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
needs to get better. I could give you many stories of my experience of | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
where it is going wrong. I agreed a gradual change is a great thing, but | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
the courts have given us a loud and clear message - on mental health, | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
you have got it wrong. In this age when we are desperately trying to | :09:05. | :09:13. | |
change the understanding of mental health, the courts have given us the | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
decision for a reason. I understand the point, but it has to be done in | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
eight water dated manner. Pip -- has to be done in a co-ordinated manner. | :09:25. | :09:36. | |
If additional money is to be spent, it should be done on speeding up the | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
appeals process. This is a problem for those with a Motability car who | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
could lose the car before their appeal is heard. There should be | :09:44. | :09:52. | |
automatic access to medical records and where possible to shed that | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
between the CSA assessment and the Pip assessment because often, they | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
are similar and that would make the claimant's life easier. We also need | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
to do more signposting for additional help. We are spending | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
more as a government supporting people with mental health | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
conditions. The biggest challenge is often identifying people with mental | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
health conditions to give them the support that is being brought | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
forward. Pip is good at identifying them and we should be offering those | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
additional areas of support and saying to them, these are the sorts | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
of services available in this area and you can take advantage of them. | :10:29. | :10:35. | |
I urge the minister to continue to work with those policy teams. I | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
spoke to Macmillan yesterday. They were grateful for the ability to | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
continue to access senior ministers and discuss suggestions. We have | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
some brilliant stakeholders and knowledge of double charities. Let | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
them help where further improvements will be. | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
It is a relief we're having this debate on the floor of the House, I | :10:56. | :11:02. | |
never like to thank you for following it up. It is a shame that | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
only matter like this the houses had to be dragged the Government to the | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
dispatch box to be held accountable weeks of refusal. As we have heard, | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
197 honourable members across eight different parties have signed to | :11:18. | :11:24. | |
annul the statutory changes. The truth is that the Government had | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
been shying away from accountability from the start. They initially | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
refused to comply with the tribunal support ruling by bringing forward | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
these changes in the first place and then didn't have the decency not | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
courtesy to refer a draft of the red elation to the social society that | :11:42. | :11:47. | |
Security advisory committee. If they are so confident that these big | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
relations will hold up, why have they avoided due process and tried | :11:52. | :11:54. | |
to speak the changes through the back door? My party will not allow | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
the Government to take these are unfair backward steps. These changes | :12:00. | :12:07. | |
will affect 150,000 people, losing out on PIP to is what the cost of | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
living with a disability. It will save the Government ?3.7 billion. | :12:12. | :12:21. | |
Given that this marked hypocrisy, it has been said Government would not | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
seek to make any further cuts, is that the reason why they didn't want | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
the regulation scrutinised? It seems fitting that with the current | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
Government's attitude to PIP and the assessment that they will sneak up | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
the second independent route review on Thursday, the day the House rises | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
for Easter recess. What are they so scared that they have shared the | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
release of this report in order that they can face no immediate scrutiny? | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
During the passage of the welfare reform act 2012, which established a | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
new personal independent payment system, ministers were clear that it | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
was an important step that be want to see between the physical and | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
mental health. Ministers even talked about the descriptors for the | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
mobility component, taking into account ability to plan a journey, | :13:08. | :13:14. | |
and PIP was designed to assess barriers that individuals face and | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
not make judgments based on their... PIP is supposed to support people | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
with additional disabilities. We have heard about the court ruling | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
which these changes seek to undermine. It ruled that he will | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
find it hard to leave the House because of anxiety, panic attacks | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
and other mental health problems should be up to receive a higher | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
rate of PIP. I have said before, but it bears repeating. Doesn't this run | :13:39. | :13:48. | |
the risk of increasing stigma of mental health? It is saying to | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
people clearly that anxiety, causing you to stay inside, is not something | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
that is serious? And doesn't conflict with the principle of equal | :13:58. | :13:59. | |
treatment between mental and physical health? Thank you for his | :14:00. | :14:07. | |
intervention, I completely agree. We should not treat one disability | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
differently from another. As I said, this Government cannot simply change | :14:14. | :14:16. | |
the goalposts every time it loses a battle in court. These regulations | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
do nothing more than pander to the old attitudes and stigmas was mental | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
illness. At the FA person needs help, they need it regardless of the | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
nature of the disability. Evidence to the lord Secretary legislation | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
committee in Scotland and allies of Scotland's major disability | :14:38. | :14:40. | |
organisations raise the number of concerns regarding the changes. They | :14:41. | :14:46. | |
said they disagree with the Government's presentation of the | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
change. It is clear the version from the state of names from the | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
legislation in 2012 which was intended to award in hands mobility | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
component if a person's mobility is severely limited by their physical | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
or mental condition. Essentially the Government is intended to try and | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
spin their way out of this, by stigmatising those with severe | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
mental health conditions. Disability Scotland also say that current | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
recipients will lose out in future awards despite no change to their | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
condition if they are reassessed under the new criteria. It will come | :15:22. | :15:28. | |
as no shock that the DWP's own shows that the garment has no idea of the | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
long-term impact, basically don't care. They are happy to Bush forward | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
with a move that basically and distinct distinction between people | :15:39. | :15:40. | |
with different conditions against the ruling of the court. They are | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
clearly concerns about the assessment process. The Scottish | :15:46. | :15:52. | |
Association issued a report which sets this out. One of the main | :15:53. | :15:55. | |
themes that run through it is the distrust of the process. Someone | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
responding said, people advise you not to shave, turn up dishevelled to | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
show that mentally you are unwell. Just because you are articulate | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
doesn't mean you don't have an mental health condition. There is to | :16:10. | :16:12. | |
be no consistency in the assessment process and yet the Government keeps | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
shifting sands a piecemeal way which only exacerbates the problem and the | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
impact of the life of those I tried to claim what they are entitled to. | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
We already know the Government have form at pulling the safety net from | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
those who are desperately with life-threatening indices. Such is | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
the impact of sanctions on people with mental health conditions that | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
there is become destitute and dependent on food bank. They are not | :16:39. | :16:45. | |
keen... It seems like a Government it is doing everything it can to | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
make people dependent on support rather than empowering to live | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
independent lives. This means nothing to the Government when they | :16:56. | :16:58. | |
have instructed private companies to carry out assessments to only awards | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
in the high rate of mobility component of people with physical or | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
sensory impairments. The Scottish Government is determined to build a | :17:09. | :17:11. | |
social security system that puts dignity and fairness at heart. When | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
the process of building assessment taking over responsibility is | :17:16. | :17:24. | |
ongoing,... And grateful for her to give way. Television show her that | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
is also affects seats like my own, which I called metropolitan or | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
elitist or suburban. We have had 120 cases of this recently, and the | :17:36. | :17:41. | |
thing that people keep pointing out, it's another example how the | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
Government says one thing and does another. I thank the Honourable lady | :17:46. | :17:54. | |
for her intervention and agree. Most of us have constituents chewing up | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
at the door with issues of PIP. I hope the lessons can be learned from | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
this debate. The Government should stop forcing through important | :18:05. | :18:07. | |
legislation to the back door, that they should consult with their own | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
security advisory committee, and that they should not have to be | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
dragged to the dispatch box in an emergency debate simply because they | :18:17. | :18:19. | |
haven't given how House the answers. They haven't even waited on the | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
second independent review on PIP four-minute relating the system. The | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
minister needs to stop mucking about, back away from these ill | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
judged and ill thought out changes, and bring forward a vote to annul | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
the regulations, if they do not then it goes to show their intent to | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
build on legislation without scrutiny and in spite of the | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
independent judicial ruling. The bottom line is these changes are | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
being implemented to save the Government money. No matter the cost | :18:50. | :18:52. | |
to our communities and those with mental health conditions. This is no | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
way to treat our people in society. I am asking the Government to | :18:58. | :19:03. | |
reconsider. Can ask members to stick to five minutes each? And their work | :19:04. | :19:09. | |
be time for a proper ministerial response about which members will | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
then understandably be the first to complain. Five minutes each. It is a | :19:14. | :19:19. | |
pleasure to speak in this important debate. I appreciate the concern set | :19:20. | :19:26. | |
out by the honourable lady, but the bigger picture is clear. The | :19:27. | :19:29. | |
Government spends ?50 billion a year to support people with disabilities | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
and health conditions, as increase of ?7 billion is 2010. The | :19:36. | :19:38. | |
Government moved away from a disability living allowance to PIP | :19:39. | :19:41. | |
on the basis that support should be given to those experiencing the | :19:42. | :19:44. | |
greatest barriers to live independently. PIP support people | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
with the overall level of need and not on the basis of a specific | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
medical condition. It is based on their freedom to live independently | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
and how it is impaired. I am chair of the all-party Parliamentary group | :19:59. | :20:06. | |
of on visual impairment. I let the debate yesterday on preventing | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
avoidable sight loss. In many sight loss cases, they are unavoidable. | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
How we support those in limited ability to live independently is | :20:15. | :20:17. | |
important. Sight loss at that nearly 2 million people in the UK, and a | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
huge personal challenges and people with sight loss how to live | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
independently can never be underestimated. To my work with the | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
cross-party group, I have seen first-hand the Government's | :20:31. | :20:33. | |
commitment to helping people dealing with sight loss. Last year the | :20:34. | :20:42. | |
employment minister, is alerted a meeting with her team to help blind | :20:43. | :20:49. | |
and partially sighted people. My honourable friend will be made in | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
her soon to see our PIP can best help people with sight loss. I am | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
grateful to her and the DWP ministers for their focus on this. | :20:59. | :21:01. | |
I'm sure that she would agree with me that they do commendable work and | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
would urge people who are blind or partially sighted to contact RNIB | :21:07. | :21:12. | |
are created a toolkit to compete the pitfall effectively, to deal with | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
the daily living component. I would like to share with the personal | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
experiences of PIP which have been collated by the RNIB and are | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
available on their website. Research and evidence was gathered, and the | :21:30. | :21:36. | |
key findings of this study which reflected real-life experiences of | :21:37. | :21:39. | |
people with sensory loss and visual impairment is that those | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
participants who transitioned from DLA to PIP reported a positive | :21:45. | :21:53. | |
financial outcome with PIP. However I hope the minister will reflect on | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
the feedback of the process which some found confusing, and that | :21:58. | :22:06. | |
assessors always work to deliver a positive experience face-to-face, | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
regardless. The evidence shows that in this study, switching from DLA to | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
PIP met a more positive financial outcome and that is welcome. Members | :22:16. | :22:22. | |
opposite have accused the Government of betraying people with mental | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
health conditions. The Government is spending ?11.4 billion on mental | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
health this year alone. There are more people with mental health | :22:33. | :22:35. | |
conditions receiving enhanced PIP daily living and mobility rates that | :22:36. | :22:38. | |
were previously getting the equivalent under DLA. There isn't | :22:39. | :22:46. | |
enough time for everyone to get in. 66% of people on PIP with a mental | :22:47. | :22:55. | |
health condition save it in the highest rate of DLA. I will finish | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
my focusing on the Government's record helping disabled people into | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
work. Since 2013, the number of disabled people into work has | :23:04. | :23:08. | |
increased by 500,000. There at the site last item bottom of the table | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
and I hope we can do more to ensure that they can... She is making a | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
very good speech with valuable points. It has nothing whatsoever to | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
do the regulation under discussion today. Chair has to make a judgment | :23:24. | :23:32. | |
about pertinence. At this stage, I am content with my own judgment. At | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
the right honourable gentleman is not, I shall do my best to bear the | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
burden with such stoicism and fortitude as I am able to muster. We | :23:41. | :23:49. | |
have heard excuses where PIP isn't working, but I want to share | :23:50. | :23:52. | |
experiences where it is working and that is important. The point I was | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
trying to make is we have many more people with disabilities going back | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
into work, I want to make sure the campaign- those with sight loss that | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
they have those opportunities. We have happened million more people | :24:06. | :24:08. | |
benefiting from opportunities, secure work, they can support | :24:09. | :24:15. | |
families and loved ones. They're supporting themselves and their | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
communities and the economy, and I thank the honourable lady for giving | :24:20. | :24:22. | |
us the opportunity to reflect on that and welcome those figures as | :24:23. | :24:30. | |
well. I want to congratulate her on Security thing that I see during | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
this debate. I want to challenge some of the assertions made by the | :24:37. | :24:39. | |
Secretary of State in commenting on these changes. I've no doubt that | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
the comments he made were made in good faith, but I think they were | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
incorrect. In particular, these changes do not restore the original | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
intentions of the benefit. The changes are clearly a cut, the | :24:54. | :25:01. | |
secretary said yesterday they weren't. They are and the effect a | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
substantial number of people. The analysis produced by the Department | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
tellers that the current caseload, 143,000 people would have had their | :25:11. | :25:13. | |
current mobility of what the dues to zero if they had been made under the | :25:14. | :25:20. | |
new regulations. At other 21,000, with Irvine it reduced. This is not | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
a minor or insignificant cut, it is a substantial one affecting a large | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
amount of people. Table six in the assessment held as, title conditions | :25:30. | :25:36. | |
most likely affected by reversing effective upper tribunal judgment | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
and mobility activity one, and the list includes schizophrenia, | :25:43. | :25:45. | |
learning disability, autism, cognitive disorder due to stroke, | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
dementia and post-traumatic stress disorder. According to the | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
Government, those are the people most affected. I will give way. | :25:54. | :26:01. | |
My right honourable friend clearly there is something about the new | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
regulations. I do as well. Those with psychological illness cannot | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
now qualify for renowned mobility because activity 11E only attracts a | :26:13. | :26:22. | |
certain number of points. This is clearly a cut by the Government. | :26:23. | :26:32. | |
They should just fess up. The Secretary of State did tell us at | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
the beginning that no body would see their current benefit being cut. It | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
is now accepted by ministers that that statement was incorrect. I just | :26:40. | :26:46. | |
want to read one paragraph, paragraph four. "In The table in | :26:47. | :26:53. | |
part three ( mobility activities ), in relation to activity one ( | :26:54. | :27:05. | |
planning and following journeys ) cannot for reasons other than | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
psychological distress". So the changes explicitly carve out people, | :27:10. | :27:16. | |
if they cannot go on a journey because of psychological distress. | :27:17. | :27:23. | |
They have said people with cognitive impairments can still qualify, which | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
may well be the case. But that is a different group of people. These | :27:30. | :27:35. | |
changes explicitly carve out people whose mobility impairment arises | :27:36. | :27:43. | |
from psychological distress. Was that the original intention? The | :27:44. | :27:45. | |
right honourable member for Basingstoke, on the 7th of February | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
2012, I think she was the predecessor but two to the | :27:50. | :27:55. | |
honourable member for North Swindon, she said this. When considering | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
entitlement to both weights of the mobility component, we will take | :28:00. | :28:02. | |
into account ability to plan and follow a journey in addition to | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
physical ability to get around. Importantly, she said, Pip is | :28:09. | :28:15. | |
designed to assess barriers individual face, not make a judgment | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
based on their impairment. That is a clear statement of the original | :28:22. | :28:28. | |
intent of this benefit. If the Secretary of State has been advised | :28:29. | :28:30. | |
that the original intention was something different, he needs to | :28:31. | :28:37. | |
check the record. These changes are different to that intention. They | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
introduce an explicit judgment based on impairment type. The original | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
intention was to have no such distinction. The regulations | :28:48. | :28:53. | |
introduce a distinction that was not in the original intention of the | :28:54. | :28:59. | |
benefit. The regulations say you are in if you struggle to plan and | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
follow a journey, but if the problem is due to psychological distress, | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
you are out. It is an explicit judgment. It is carving out a large | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
group of people with mental health problems. Doesn't the carve out | :29:15. | :29:21. | |
ultimately amount to nothing but discrimination against those | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
suffering mental distress, and isn't it the case that any references to | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
spending on mental health in any other area is irrelevant to this? | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
This is about discrimination so far as this rule change is concerned. It | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
is explicit in the face of the regulations that that group is being | :29:42. | :29:44. | |
discriminated against, contrary to the original intention that the | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
Secretary of State said he was restoring. The Secretary of State | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
suggests that it was never the intention to include this group of | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
people with mental health problems, but his predecessors at the time | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
told this House that it was the intention to include people, | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
irrespective of their impairment type. That was the intention in | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
2012. These regulations will thwart it. I hope that like the other | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
place, we will say no to these changes. It is a privilege to serve | :30:16. | :30:24. | |
on the work and pensions select committee with the right honourable | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
lady in the last parliament. I want to focus on two areas. First, it is | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
in the case that the Government is using this as a cost-cutting | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
exercise. Secondly, I will address some of the comments made by members | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
opposite on mental health and physical conditions regarding Pip. | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
We spend ?50 billion a year on benefits to support people with | :30:49. | :30:53. | |
disabilities and health conditions, up from 7 billion since 2010. So | :30:54. | :31:01. | |
rather than being subject to austerity, the Government has | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
increased its spending. That is 6% of all government spending or 2% of | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
GDP, significantly more than countries like France and Germany | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
and above the OECD average. It is more than we spend on defence of the | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
realm. It is not, as some members have made out, a cost-cutting | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
exercise. The Government has been clear that it will seek no further | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
savings through welfare this Parliament. I am asking my right | :31:28. | :31:29. | |
honourable friend to reassure the House that she will continue to | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
defend the disability budget. These changes restore the original aim of | :31:35. | :31:37. | |
the policy by clarifying the assessment criteria to make sure | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
support is targeted on those that need it most. Nobody will receive | :31:42. | :31:47. | |
any less money than they have previously been awarded. This is not | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
about making savings. Pip was widely debated and voted upon in this House | :31:53. | :31:54. | |
during the coalition government. Over two thirds of Pip recipients | :31:55. | :32:10. | |
with a mental health condition received the enhanced living | :32:11. | :32:12. | |
component compared with 22% who used to receive the higher rate under | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
DLA. This Government is investing more in mental health support than | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
any before it. A record of 11.4 billion this year. Parity between | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
mental and physical conditions is a core principle at the heart of Pip's | :32:27. | :32:32. | |
design, and awards are made dependent on the claimant's overall | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
level of need regardless of whether the condition is mental or physical. | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
As well as increasing spending on disabilities, this Government is | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
challenging attitudes towards disability through initiatives like | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
disability confident. Last year, I and many members of this House held | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
my first disability confident fair, bringing together 20 local | :32:54. | :33:00. | |
businesses and supporting agencies to encourage employers to consider | :33:01. | :33:08. | |
taking on residents. The honourable gentleman says parity of esteem | :33:09. | :33:11. | |
applies to the way Pip works, but the right honourable member for East | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
Ham has specifically explained how the carve out of mental distress | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
means that it is clearly discriminatory. Does he not agree? I | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
can't comment on the specific case that the honourable gentleman for | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
East Ham referred to, because I don't know the details. It does vary | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
from case to case, and we can all come out with examples. But in my | :33:34. | :33:39. | |
experience, these changes to Pip have overwhelmingly been better for | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
people with mental illness in my constituency. And overall... I will | :33:44. | :33:52. | |
give way. I would also like to say we have a number of local residents | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
concerned about those with mental health issues having access to the | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
higher rate mobility allowance. This has probably had the unintended | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
consequences, and this is where I would take my write's advice, of | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
young people, post-transition, not being able to have access to their | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
blue badge or disability or mobility access. That is a point I would like | :34:14. | :34:22. | |
her to examine. That is for the minister to answer. In closing, the | :34:23. | :34:33. | |
disability confident fair brought in employers, and I would encourage | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
members across the House to do something similar. I learned a lot | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
about the challenges of my constituents and helped bring | :34:43. | :34:51. | |
employers and residents together. Our government is providing a strong | :34:52. | :34:53. | |
safety net for those who need it. Pip is a more modern and fair | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
benefit than its predecessor of DLA, focusing support on those in our | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
constituency that need it most. Mr Stephen Twigg. I thank my honourable | :35:05. | :35:13. | |
friend for securing this debate and reaffirm the points she made about | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
how disappointing it is that this Government did not find time for a | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
vote on these regulations before they come in. I would say to the | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
government that it does not reflect well on this House or on the | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
government in terms of public trust in our proceedings if we do not | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
conduct these votes prior to such significant regulations coming in. | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
We know that disabled people are at least twice as likely to live in | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
poverty as non-disabled people. Pip helps to level the financial playing | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
field between disabled and non-disabled people. I represent a | :35:48. | :35:50. | |
constituency that has a significant level of poverty, and the numbers of | :35:51. | :35:58. | |
receipt in Pip in my constituency are 3410. We have all received | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
representations from a range of third sector organisations about | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
this assessment process, and we have all seen the impact of how it works. | :36:07. | :36:13. | |
I want to highlight two organisations I have worked with. | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
One is the motor neurone disease Association. I am pleased to be | :36:18. | :36:20. | |
patron of their Merseyside branch. Their analysis shows that between | :36:21. | :36:27. | |
2013 and 2016, the proportion of people with MND who saw their award | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
reduced as they moved from DLA to Pip was 13%. This is a condition | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
which by its nature is both progressive and terminal. When I | :36:36. | :36:42. | |
spoke to MND this morning, they said they want me to raise in this debate | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
the quality of assessments. They believe the poor quality of | :36:48. | :36:50. | |
assessments has contributed to the issues that have been raised by | :36:51. | :36:58. | |
others. One thing that startled me when I have been through Pip | :36:59. | :37:04. | |
assessments myself if the generalist nature of the assessors. They are | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
expected to be experts on mental and physical health and mobility, and it | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
is not possible in my opinion. There needs to be some kind of triaging. I | :37:14. | :37:19. | |
bear that out from my experience in my local office. Research suggests | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
that 71% of respondents said that assessors had not sought any | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
evidence or information about the specific condition. That is part of | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
the reason why 65% of those who challenge a decision then find that | :37:33. | :37:39. | |
that challenge is successful. We have to be careful when the | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
Government says it is targeting somebody or something, because you | :37:43. | :37:46. | |
know that that is a code word for cuts in benefits. My constituents | :37:47. | :37:56. | |
often find they are entering the unexpected. My honourable friend | :37:57. | :38:05. | |
makes a powerful point. The other condition is epilepsy. I am a vice | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
president of epilepsy action, and they have been in touch to say they | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
fear that these proposals could penalise people with epilepsy, who | :38:15. | :38:20. | |
rely on support to monitor their health condition. The DWP's | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
understudy recognises that a person with epilepsy who has a seizure may | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
need a carer to administer medicine without which they may go into | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
status epilepticus, which can lead to brain damage or death. So I would | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
like to reaffirm what my honourable friend from the front bench said | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
today. We have an opportunity to air concerns on a cross-party basis, but | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
I would urge the Government to listen to those concerns. As the | :38:48. | :38:50. | |
honourable lady from South Cambridgeshire said earlier, we have | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
been sent a message by the tribunal is about parity between mental and | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
physical health. Let us say that we have listened to that message and we | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
urge the Government to look again at these regulations. As someone who | :39:03. | :39:09. | |
spends a great deal of time on work to improve the care and support for | :39:10. | :39:12. | |
people with mental health conditions, I will begin with a | :39:13. | :39:19. | |
couple of points of context before I moved to talking about the question | :39:20. | :39:27. | |
of Pips which we are debating. I am thankful that mental health has | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
never been a higher priority for any government. The Prime Minister has | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
made it clear that it is a priority for her. We have the five-year | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
forward view for mental health. We have extra funding for mental | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
health, and people I work with in the mental health sector, | :39:45. | :39:46. | |
campaigners, charities and professionals, have said to me that | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
now is a golden moment to improve mental health care because of this | :39:53. | :39:55. | |
unprecedented commitment by the Government to mental health. I know | :39:56. | :40:07. | |
that my right honourable friend de Secretary of State forward and | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
pensions and my 'em the minister for disabled people share this | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
commitment. It is shown in the green paper recently published on work and | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
disability and in the review of employment for people with mental | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
health problems. There is also evidence that Pip is a better | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
benefit for people with mental health conditions than its | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
predecessor. Some of these statistics have already been given | :40:32. | :40:34. | |
by my honourable friend the member for North Swindon, so I will not | :40:35. | :40:37. | |
reiterate that beyond saying that it is important to note that on the | :40:38. | :40:46. | |
mobility component of Pip, people with mental health conditions are | :40:47. | :40:49. | |
far more likely to receive that an its equivalent under DLA, 28% | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
getting the enhanced mobility component compared to 10% getting | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
the equivalent under DLA. That is relevant to what we are debating | :40:59. | :40:59. | |
today. They hope odds are PIP has the | :41:00. | :41:08. | |
minister has said is that the award is based on the how the condition | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
affects day-to-day life. It is based on that, not on their diagnosis. It | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
is based on their needs and consequent costs. I am happy to give | :41:19. | :41:25. | |
way. I thank the honourable lady. Does she agree with me that for the | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
Government to suggest that mobility impairment caused by psychological | :41:31. | :41:33. | |
issues are not relevant is an insult to anyone with a mental health | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
condition, and that she also agreed that mental health conditions should | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
be treated no differently to physical health conditions? I don't | :41:41. | :41:47. | |
agree with the first point, I think he should continue to listen to what | :41:48. | :41:51. | |
I have to say. The second point is one that I probably do agree with, | :41:52. | :41:56. | |
but if he could listen, he may find that we are aligned on that. I would | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
like to thank the minister, because she has been exceptionally assiduous | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
in responding and discussing my concerns on the matter is that we | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
are debating today. We have had several meetings. In those meetings, | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
she has emphasised to me her commitment to achieving the original | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
aim of PIP which is to support people to live full, independent | :42:22. | :42:24. | |
lives. I have questioned her about these regulations, both in my role | :42:25. | :42:31. | |
as chair of the APG from mental health, but also as a local member | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
of Parliament. We have discussed the case of a lady I met in Maidstone | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
recently, who had been set on fire on a bus. That lady told me that | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
since then she has been unable to go out of the House without being | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
accompanied by somebody that you trust. She has been very worried | :42:49. | :42:55. | |
during this discussion about these regulations, she has been worried | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
that the welfare system might not treat her the same as someone who | :42:59. | :43:01. | |
has been unable to leave the House because of a physical disability. | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
The minister has assured me that is not the case. And that people are | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
and will continue to be given payment not based on their diagnosis | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
but based on their needs. I would ask my honourable friend to clarify | :43:15. | :43:22. | |
to all of us today that for examples somebody suffering from severe | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
psychological distress, for instance post-traumatic stress disorder, who | :43:28. | :43:30. | |
needs to get out and about, for instance to go to work or take | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
children to school, but finds it impossible to go out and about | :43:35. | :43:37. | |
without significant assistance, could and would receive the enhanced | :43:38. | :43:43. | |
rate of mobility component of PIP, if the needs justified that. I would | :43:44. | :43:52. | |
also ask my honourable friend that given the concern about these | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
regulations, for her reassures on three counts to do with lamentation. | :43:58. | :44:03. | |
One to make sure that the guidance for assessors is absolutely clear, | :44:04. | :44:06. | |
that people with mental health conditions can and should receive | :44:07. | :44:09. | |
PIP was based on their needs and costs, and that may well be the | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
enhanced level. Secondly to make sure that the audit system, that she | :44:14. | :44:19. | |
will make sure this is what happens in practice. And thirdly to draw on | :44:20. | :44:24. | |
the evidence provided by recordings of PIP assessments, the trialling of | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
which I welcome, having pressed her and her predecessor who is behind | :44:30. | :44:35. | |
the on this point that I think PIP assessments should be recorded, and | :44:36. | :44:38. | |
I welcome that this is going to be trialled. Finally, I'm just wrapping | :44:39. | :44:45. | |
up. I look forward to hearing from my right honourable friend that she | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
will assure as all that this Government's welfare system can and | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
will continue to treat people the same, whether they needs are for | :44:54. | :45:03. | |
mental or physical conditions. I to congratulate my honourable friend | :45:04. | :45:05. | |
for bringing this matter before the House. I just want to concentrate on | :45:06. | :45:12. | |
a couple of the misapprehensions in this afternoon's debate. First of | :45:13. | :45:19. | |
all, in relation to the original policy intent, and we heard from my | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
right honourable friend, that in 2011 and 2012 we were told by | :45:25. | :45:28. | |
ministers during the passage of the welfare reform act, that not only | :45:29. | :45:33. | |
would psychological stress and all conditions be eligible to be covered | :45:34. | :45:39. | |
by PIP, but specifically the benefit would be judged not on the basis of | :45:40. | :45:43. | |
their condition, but the overall impact on some apartment life. If | :45:44. | :45:48. | |
that has significant impact on somebody's live, why will it be is | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
good in assessing for the higher rate? It is contradictory to what we | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
were told at the time of the passage of the Act. The Government | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
acknowledged in 2015 that psychological strays was to be | :46:04. | :46:07. | |
included, now they say that was a mistake. That is not good enough for | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
a Government go around making these kind of mistakes. Secondly, the | :46:12. | :46:17. | |
Government has said that nobody will suffer a cut to their benefit, it is | :46:18. | :46:21. | |
not clear to me if they are still saying that not to be clear, to cut | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
I'd like to point out. On the 15th of March, in the course of the | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
urgent question heard in this House, the Secretary of State did | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
acknowledge that some people who had had their award increased as a | :46:35. | :46:38. | |
result of a decision in a first tribunal could see that reduced back | :46:39. | :46:44. | |
to the level of the original DWP award. The Secretary of State was | :46:45. | :46:47. | |
very careful with his words, he didn't say all awards would be | :46:48. | :46:51. | |
protected, he said the original DWP award would be protected. Does that | :46:52. | :46:55. | |
mean that it will be some people who will in practice see them was | :46:56. | :47:01. | |
reduced? When will that happen? Because the other thing the | :47:02. | :47:07. | |
Government is doing is appealing to the tribunal decisions. That is | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
specifically to catch people who have seen their benefit on a higher | :47:12. | :47:17. | |
level and who would of course enjoy that higher level, because the | :47:18. | :47:20. | |
regulations would come in to relate for them to be impacted as the | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
benefits reduced. Is the minister telling us that Government is | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
successful, they would be reducing the benefit of those people who got | :47:31. | :47:33. | |
rich awards prior to these regulations back to the level of the | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
original DW be a white? The third thing I want to say is that asking | :47:39. | :47:44. | |
the Government may reconcile cases decided on the upper tribunal, on a | :47:45. | :47:51. | |
month of March with a decision to strip out the psychological and | :47:52. | :47:55. | |
stress. In part because I understand it is a fluctuating condition, as we | :47:56. | :47:58. | |
have heard in the decisions made on the 9th of March in the upper | :47:59. | :48:01. | |
tribunal, it is not just whether something is occasional not that | :48:02. | :48:03. | |
determines whether summit should be eligible. It is also about the total | :48:04. | :48:13. | |
impact of that condition. The member for Liverpool, there's no better | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
example than someone with epilepsy who may suffer occasional seizures, | :48:20. | :48:22. | |
but many do suffer no seizures at the effect, the harm that they could | :48:23. | :48:24. | |
be experienced to be very considerable and resulting brain | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
damage or even death. May I ask the minister to explain how she | :48:30. | :48:35. | |
reconciles those decisions with the assertion that because it is a | :48:36. | :48:39. | |
fluctuating condition, psychological stress should not attract the | :48:40. | :48:45. | |
highest rate of award? I would like the minister to have ten minutes in | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
which the reply, so she needs to be on her feet. With regards to these | :48:50. | :48:58. | |
PIP changes, the Government has done all it can to avoid parliamentary | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
scrutiny. It has ignored the concerns repeatedly expressed by MPs | :49:04. | :49:10. | |
and disability benefits Consortium and the concerns out there. They can | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
be no doubt that the consequences of these changes are having a | :49:15. | :49:17. | |
fundamental and life limiting effect on those affected by them. The point | :49:18. | :49:24. | |
of PIP to help with the extra costs resulting from disability of | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
long-term ill-health, replacing DLA. The effect, real axe or accidental, | :49:30. | :49:33. | |
physically discrimination against those living with mental health | :49:34. | :49:36. | |
challenges and could put vulnerable claimants at risk. That was the | :49:37. | :49:42. | |
conclusion of the House of Lords. The disability rights Consortium is | :49:43. | :49:47. | |
it concerned that these changes will restrict access for disabled people | :49:48. | :49:51. | |
who needed in order to face additional costs. Clearly the | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
criteria is now far too strict, which has resulted in almost 50% of | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
disabled people and people with long-term health conditions losing | :50:00. | :50:07. | |
access to some or all of the support when being assessed. In addition we | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
know that over 60% of PIP appeals are successful. To those who have | :50:12. | :50:16. | |
had their support withdrawn reduced, I would say this. Go to your MP for | :50:17. | :50:24. | |
help. The process is distressing, upsetting, but please, appeal any | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
decision which you think is unfair, because over 60% of appeals are | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
successful. This shows, on its own, that the process is not working. And | :50:34. | :50:39. | |
that the system causes unnecessary distress are far too many claimants. | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
My constituency office in Ardrossan, north Ayrshire, has numerous | :50:45. | :50:50. | |
examples of such cases. It leaves claimants confused, frightened, | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
bewildered and in serious financial difficulty. There are also | :50:56. | :50:58. | |
particular concerns around the mobility component, with over 750 | :50:59. | :51:02. | |
becoming them to ability Beatles every week due to withdrawal of | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
essential support. We know from the DWP's own analysis that 146,000 | :51:08. | :51:13. | |
people, disabled people, could lose the natural support at the drop from | :51:14. | :51:19. | |
the higher rate ability to no entitlement at all. It is also | :51:20. | :51:23. | |
conceded by the DWP is that there is difficulty in predicting these | :51:24. | :51:27. | |
numbers as the final numbers losing financial support could be in fact | :51:28. | :51:33. | |
much higher. It is vital that the PIP assessment criteria is reviewed | :51:34. | :51:36. | |
to ensure there are clear definitions in place before any | :51:37. | :51:40. | |
changes. The criteria is far too narrow and far too restrictive, and | :51:41. | :51:47. | |
simply does not recognise the impact that many long-term conditions and | :51:48. | :51:50. | |
disabilities have on a person's ability to undertake daily living | :51:51. | :51:54. | |
activities. I'd often feels to take account of Headon and fluctuating | :51:55. | :51:58. | |
symptoms, including cognitive difficulties. What kind of people | :51:59. | :52:03. | |
are suffering under this system? Those with MS, Parkinson is, serious | :52:04. | :52:11. | |
chronic conditions. Often those that such conditions very often suffer | :52:12. | :52:18. | |
from depression and anxiety. That is not specifically diagnosed, spice | :52:19. | :52:23. | |
PIP is concerned, it doesn't exist. Those that long-term conditions and | :52:24. | :52:25. | |
disabilities which include depression and anxiety are a common | :52:26. | :52:30. | |
symptom which will not score under the original descriptor. These | :52:31. | :52:37. | |
changes, on top of the arbitrary cut of ?30 a week to yesterday, | :52:38. | :52:40. | |
work-related activity group, which is also due to be imposed show the | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
complete disregard for the same people in the Government. How can | :52:47. | :52:48. | |
putting disabled people integrate a hardship help to remove barriers or | :52:49. | :52:54. | |
help them get back into work? Where are the disability employment | :52:55. | :53:00. | |
support programmes? We need to treat disabled people with dignity and | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
respect. This Government needs to listen and show some compassion and | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
understanding, and stop trying to build an austerity programme on the | :53:10. | :53:16. | |
backs of the poor and disabled. I want to start by thanking the | :53:17. | :53:22. | |
minister, never for Portsmouth North, last Wednesday as a kid down | :53:23. | :53:26. | |
the escalator she and a group of people were coming in the opposite | :53:27. | :53:29. | |
direction and made it clear that we should leave the building. I thank | :53:30. | :53:34. | |
her for that. Moving on to the debate. I'd like to thank my staff | :53:35. | :53:39. | |
who, like others, having 100% success rate in the appeals that we | :53:40. | :53:42. | |
have taken up in our office. And like to thank you Mr Speaker phone | :53:43. | :53:47. | |
facilitating this debate. The Government should have done so in a | :53:48. | :53:50. | |
timely manner, and they stand condemned for failing to do so in | :53:51. | :53:58. | |
spite of a cross-party requests. And I am pleased that the original | :53:59. | :54:02. | |
prayer which we tabled with his port of the opposition has led to the | :54:03. | :54:11. | |
successful securing of the debate, fighting a member for old east and | :54:12. | :54:15. | |
Saddleworth. As members and said, PIP helps disabled people to meet | :54:16. | :54:20. | |
some of costs related to their impairment and condition. The | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
Government have a stated intention of security -- how does this move to | :54:25. | :54:30. | |
stop people with mental health problems securing extra support, | :54:31. | :54:35. | |
activity 11 I believe to PIP, to help them with their journeys, help | :54:36. | :54:40. | |
achieve parity of esteem? The Government will claim that they are | :54:41. | :54:43. | |
simply affirming what the legislation originally intended. I | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
dispute that. The evidence disputes that. Members have quoted the about | :54:49. | :54:56. | |
audible member for Basingstoke. Particularly the phrase that PIP is | :54:57. | :55:01. | |
designed to assess barriers individuals face, not make judgments | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
based on their impairment type. I quote lord Freud who said, one of | :55:07. | :55:10. | |
the big differences between PIP and DLA is that the personal | :55:11. | :55:15. | |
independence claim it looks at the ability to plan a journey not just | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
the physical capacity. I think these examples alone demonstrate that the | :55:21. | :55:23. | |
Government's intention was to allow people with mental health problems | :55:24. | :55:27. | |
to receive PIP, assist them in their mental health meant they could not | :55:28. | :55:32. | |
travel without assistance. If the Government wants to change the law, | :55:33. | :55:38. | |
because of the extra costs that they have identified associated with | :55:39. | :55:45. | |
funding PIP, so be it. But let's have proper scrutiny, a proper | :55:46. | :55:49. | |
debate and a proper vote, not this piece of Parliamentary | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
jiggery-pokery. Can I advise the minister that she | :55:54. | :56:06. | |
should sit down no later than 5.13. Can I start by thanking all | :56:07. | :56:08. | |
honourable members who have contributed to this debate. There | :56:09. | :56:14. | |
are many points I need to answer and I do not have much time, but I will | :56:15. | :56:20. | |
do my best and any outstanding points, I will write to honourable | :56:21. | :56:25. | |
members about. At the core of Pip's design is the principle that awards | :56:26. | :56:28. | |
should be made according to a person's level of need, not whether | :56:29. | :56:31. | |
their condition is one sort or another. Those with a higher need, | :56:32. | :56:38. | |
great limitations on their ability to participate in society and higher | :56:39. | :56:41. | |
costs associated with their condition will get more support. If | :56:42. | :56:49. | |
I have time, I will pick interventions at the end. This | :56:50. | :56:52. | |
approach, using the social definition of disability, is | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
important. Assessments are complex. The assessor will be trying to | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
understand the impact on that person's life and how their | :57:02. | :57:04. | |
disability or health conditions will affect them in their caring duties, | :57:05. | :57:10. | |
being a parent, in their social life and daily living. As this House has | :57:11. | :57:15. | |
heard many times, recent legal judgments have interpreted the | :57:16. | :57:17. | |
assessment criteria for Pip in ways that are different from what was | :57:18. | :57:22. | |
originally intended under the coalition government. The other | :57:23. | :57:26. | |
tribunal judgments were concerned solely with the interpretation of | :57:27. | :57:32. | |
the wording and not, as the honourable member, my honourable | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
friend from South Cambridgeshire has said, about policy. We have | :57:37. | :57:40. | |
therefore made amendments to clarify the criteria used to decide how much | :57:41. | :57:45. | |
benefits claimants receive. This amendment both restores the original | :57:46. | :57:48. | |
aim of the policy previously agreed by Parliament, which followed | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
extensive consultation and adds clarity for all. As my right | :57:54. | :58:02. | |
honourable friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has said | :58:03. | :58:05. | |
in this House and his letter last week to the honourable lady | :58:06. | :58:12. | |
opposite, it is important to be clear what these regulations are | :58:13. | :58:17. | |
not. They are not a policy change. They are not intended to make new | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
savings and they will not result in any claimant seeing a reduction in | :58:22. | :58:27. | |
the amount of Pip previously awarded by DWP. There is no change to the | :58:28. | :58:32. | |
budget and no change to guidance that we give assessors. To answer | :58:33. | :58:41. | |
the honourable lady's point, she is right that between the ruling is | :58:42. | :58:45. | |
being made under regulations coming into force, there will be a handful | :58:46. | :58:49. | |
of people, currently about eight people, that will have been awarded | :58:50. | :58:55. | |
a higher amount in the tribunal rulings. We are not going to claw | :58:56. | :58:58. | |
back money from those people, but we will look at those cases and it | :58:59. | :59:03. | |
would be our intention to restore them to the original benefit level. | :59:04. | :59:07. | |
That is one reason why we have acted quickly. But people who have | :59:08. | :59:15. | |
previously awarded an amount by DWP and those in the future who will be | :59:16. | :59:21. | |
assessed on the same principles and the same policy, there are amounts | :59:22. | :59:26. | |
will not change. It is appropriate for the Government to act to restore | :59:27. | :59:30. | |
the clarity of the law. As governments have done before and no | :59:31. | :59:34. | |
doubt will continue to do in the future, indeed, the opposition, when | :59:35. | :59:39. | |
in government in 2000, introduced a change to the rules of disability | :59:40. | :59:43. | |
living allowance which overturned a commissioner's decision that held | :59:44. | :59:47. | |
that telephone conversations to someone with severe depression and | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
chronic anxiety should count as qualifying attention for the care | :59:52. | :59:57. | |
component of DLA. That decision was seen to have significantly widened | :59:58. | :00:01. | |
the gateway not only to DLA, but to attendance allowance too, and the | :00:02. | :00:04. | |
Government therefore took a similar decision to the one we have taken to | :00:05. | :00:10. | |
restore the original policy intent. Let me assure the House that we want | :00:11. | :00:14. | |
to make sure that our policies are working and being delivered | :00:15. | :00:17. | |
effectively, and we will continue to review our policies including Pip. | :00:18. | :00:24. | |
This Government has already introduced two formal statutory | :00:25. | :00:27. | |
reviews of the Pip assessment, and we remain committed to publishing | :00:28. | :00:34. | |
Palgrave's independent review as set out in legislation. We will remain | :00:35. | :00:39. | |
committed to continuous improvement and making those improvements to the | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
Pip assessment and our decision-making and improving the | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
advice that we provide people to guide them through the process. We | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
know that feedback from claimant and stakeholders give us valuable | :00:53. | :00:54. | |
insight into the services we deliver. That is why we are setting | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
up the service user panels for Pip and ESA claimants, their carers, | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
advocates and representative groups together evidence on Pip and ESA. | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
These panels will start next month and will run for 12 months, asking | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
for people's experiences of claiming, capturing new ideas for | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
improvement and testing reactions to changes in the proposals. We wish to | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
reach as many people as possible and we are working with charities and | :01:24. | :01:32. | |
representatives to promote awareness and draw on their expertise. | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
Following reference to those panels last month in the other place, we | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
have started to see requests from claimant is keen to participate. We | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
are also carrying out pilots to test whether there are any benefits to | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
audio recording face-to-face assessments. Those pilots started on | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
the 13th of March and will last for six weeks, involving 400 claimants. | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
We are also trialling telephoning claimants to ensure all the evidence | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
they wish to be considered has been submitted. This is important to | :02:02. | :02:12. | |
reduce those going to appeal. And we are giving fuller reasons to people | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
as to why they have not been successful to ensure that they | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
understand exactly why. We have strengthened clinical support and | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
mentoring for health care professionals that carry out | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
assessments. Our assessors are discussing with that person the | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
impacts on their life prior to taking a medical history. The right | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
honourable gentleman from North Durham raised the issue of ensuring | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
that there is support throughout the assessment process for people | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
particularly with a mental health condition. He knows there are | :02:43. | :02:53. | |
processes in place and markers for such individuals. We are always | :02:54. | :02:56. | |
interested in what we can do to improve that. Please bear with me. | :02:57. | :03:10. | |
The health and work green paper is looking at the issue of shared | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
health records that honourable members have mentioned. And we have | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
also been working with Motability to ensure that the issues around | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
appeals and the counter-productive bureaucracy that honourable members | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
have referred to are resolved and we will report to the House as soon as | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
possible. I can assure my honourable friend the member for Kensington | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
that a particular focus for that has been young people and students in | :03:41. | :03:43. | |
particular. We are also looking at what further we can do, and I can | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
give assurances to the honourable lady for Wealden that we are working | :03:48. | :03:54. | |
with the RNIB. Let me turn to the specifics on mental health and the | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
regulations. Supporting people with mental illness is a priority for | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
this government. That is why we are spending more on mental health | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
provision than ever before. 11.4 billion in this year alone. We have | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
introduced the first-ever access and waiting standards for mental health | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
services, and these changes and the investment are already making a | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
difference. Since 2010, the number of people accessing mental health | :04:22. | :04:28. | |
services has risen by 40%. And the number of consultant psychiatrists | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
in this country has risen by 5%. We are working to join up the health | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
care system, the welfare system and society more widely so that we focus | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
on the strength of people with disabilities or health conditions | :04:42. | :04:44. | |
and what they can do if properly supported. It is for that reason | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
that in the summer of 2015, the health and work unit was created in | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
the Department of Health and wire in October last year, we published | :04:54. | :05:03. | |
improving lives... Mr Speaker, you rightly ensured that the minister | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
had enough time to answer questions. None of that is about the key issue | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
in the regulations. The right honourable gentleman must seek to | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
intervene if he can and pursue other mechanisms if he can't. I am coming | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
on to the revelations. The key issue of this debate is that people are | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
questioning the parity of mental health with physical health, and I | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
am wishing to point out to the House that mental health has never been | :05:29. | :05:31. | |
more prominent on any Government's addenda before. If you allow me to | :05:32. | :05:39. | |
turn to the issue of the regulations, I will not repeat the | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
statistics about the number of people with a mental health | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
condition receiving Pip more favourably than was on DLA. But let | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
me tackle the issues around regulations. Several members have | :05:52. | :06:00. | |
concluded that someone who is suffering from psychological | :06:01. | :06:03. | |
distress, that would not count towards their scoring and that they | :06:04. | :06:11. | |
would somehow be excluded from scoring the maximum amount on the | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
descriptors. That is not the case. As time is tight, I could perhaps | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
place some case studies in the library. But if you are suffering | :06:23. | :06:30. | |
from autism, PTSD or depression, you can score 12 points on that | :06:31. | :06:41. | |
descriptor. We have used the most appropriate Parliamentary procedure. | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
It is set out in the welfare reform act of 2012. In light of the | :06:46. | :06:52. | |
significant and urgent consequences of these judgments, these amendments | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
were passed by the social security advisory committee on the 8th of | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
March after the regulations were laid. We have welcomed the response | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
we have received from the committee and the fact that they did not wish | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
to have the regulations referred to them for public consultation. We | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
have also responded to the recommendations made by the | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
committee. We have made it clear that we are committed to continuous | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
improvement as we recognise its importance both in terms of quality | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
and consistency to ensure that Pip policy is clearly articulated. We | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
will also ensure that health care professionals who carry out the | :07:35. | :07:36. | |
assessment is fully understand what those amendments mean. The | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
regulations were today passed by the joint committee on statutory | :07:41. | :07:49. | |
instruments. In conclusion, I will reassure the House that these | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
regulations simply restore the original aim of the policy as | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
previously debated. We are delivering Pip in line with its | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
original intent. These changes will not result in claimants seeing a | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
reduction in the amount of Pip awarded by the department. Order. | :08:07. | :08:13. | |
The question is that this House has considered changes to personal | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
independence payment regulations. As many as are of the opinion, say | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
"aye". To the contrary, "no". The ayes have it, the ayes have it. | :08:21. | :08:31. | |
Point of order, Mr Carton. Thank you, Mr Speaker. On an intervention | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
to my honourable friend the member for East Ham, I forgot to mention a | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
direct interest. My wife sits as a judge. I apologise to you and the | :08:43. | :08:53. | |
House. I appreciate that. Mr Speaker, can I apologise to you and | :08:54. | :08:56. | |
the House for inadvertently misleading it during my German | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
debate -- adjournment debate last Thursday on the incinerator? Said | :09:03. | :09:11. | |
that in 2012, Hertfordshire County Council objected and that the | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
company was now proposing 12 HGV movements a day. This figure was | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
provided to me on the 4th of March 2000 16. I have since discovered | :09:23. | :09:29. | |
that the actual number is 268 HGV movements a day. Nothing Veolia | :09:30. | :09:38. | |
tells me turns out to be the reality of the situation, but I owe it to | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
this House to do my homework more thoroughly. So I apologise to you | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
again for misleading this House and my esteemed colleagues in this | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
place, who indicated that they share my sense of outrage. I am grateful | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
to the honourable gentleman for his point of order. He is certainly a | :09:58. | :10:05. | |
witty wag. But I would add that as far as Veolia is concerned, the | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
honourable gentleman is a formidable foe. I rather imagine the company is | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
discovering that now, if it didn't know before. Point of order, Sir | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
Simon Burns. TRANSLATION: As you will appreciate, | :10:17. | :10:25. | |
my honourable friend was put in a most unfortunate situation because | :10:26. | :10:34. | |
he was giving duff information which he used in good faith, and then | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
turned out that the incorrect information that he gave was an | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
under estimate of the severe impact those journeys were going to have on | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
his constituency and local community. Could you advise us of | :10:51. | :10:57. | |
any satisfactory way in which notwithstanding my honourable | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
friend's generous apology to the House, that the people who where the | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
perpetrators of this disinformation could be called to this place to | :11:08. | :11:14. | |
explain why they embarrassed my honourable friend, and lead to | :11:15. | :11:17. | |
misleading letters being giving in a debate which did have the effect on | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
the views of other honourable members listening to the debate? I | :11:23. | :11:29. | |
am grateful to him for that point of order. Summoning summer to the bar | :11:30. | :11:37. | |
of the House is rarely used at a disciplinary device, and of course | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
it is an extremely serious matter. I would have to reflect very carefully | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
on whether it would be appropriate in that case. Even if it were not, I | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
think they might honourable gentleman would agree with me that | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
in the circumstances the least we might all expect is that an apology | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
would be profit by the company, because there is no shame in making | :12:01. | :12:06. | |
a mistake, but there certainly is in failing to recognise the fact that | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
one's done so and failing to apologise for having done so. I will | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
wait to see whether we received an apology, and if I receive any such | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
apology, the Right Honourable gentleman will be the first hear of | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
it. If there are no farther point of order. We come now to the rogue RAM | :12:26. | :12:39. | |
motion, the ministers move. -- programme motion. I think the ayes | :12:40. | :12:50. | |
have it. The clerk will now proceed to read the orders of the day. | :12:51. | :13:04. | |
Pension scheme and mended to further consider. I must now put the | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
question is necessary to bring to the conclusion proceedings of | :13:08. | :13:10. | |
consideration. The members will be aware that when the House because | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
they considered the Bill on Wednesday last, the setting was | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
suspended and subsequently the House adjourned during the division on the | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
question that new cars and property for the second time. I will begin | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
proceedings in the Bill today by putting the question to the House. | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
The question is that new clause would be read a second time. As many | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
of that opinion, the iMac. To the contrary, no. | :13:38. | :14:30. | |
The ayes to the right, 230. The noes, 279. -- 289. The noes have it. | :14:31. | :26:26. | |
We continued clause two. -- new clause two. As many as are of the | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". | :26:32. | :27:45. | |
John. He requests that new clause to be added to the Bill. As many as are | :27:46. | :27:58. | |
of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". | :27:59. | :34:49. | |
Order. The ayes to the right, 187. The noes to the left, 289. | :34:50. | :38:25. | |
The noes have it. Unlock. We now come to amendment, the question is | :38:26. | :38:40. | |
the member moment will be read. As many as are of the opinion, say | :38:41. | :38:43. | |
"aye". To the contrary, "no". Division, clear the lobbies. | :38:44. | :39:58. | |
Quick. Order. The question to the amendment. As many as are of the | :39:59. | :40:13. | |
opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". | :40:14. | :46:50. | |
These lock the doors. -- locked the doors. | :46:51. | :49:14. | |
order. The ayes to the right, 188. The noes to the left, 286. The ayes | :49:15. | :49:40. | |
to the Rye, 188. The noes to the left, drugs and 86. The noes have | :49:41. | :49:48. | |
it. Consideration completed, third reading. Minister to move. Deputy | :49:49. | :49:59. | |
Speaker, we return to this Bill after last Wednesday's, to give | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
vent. My thoughts and sympathies are to those affected but I would also | :50:05. | :50:07. | |
like to take this opportunity to thank all my loyal members of both | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
sides of the House for their support and professionalism on what was a | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
very difficult time for us all. But it is now my pleasure to beg the | :50:16. | :50:22. | |
Bill be now read for a third time. Mr Speaker, or Madam Deputy is | :50:23. | :50:29. | |
bigger, now Madam Deputy Speaker, this Bill, I'm very pleased that she | :50:30. | :50:33. | |
is here, because she hasn't heard this before. This Bill focuses on | :50:34. | :50:39. | |
master trusts, including a new opposition regime for them and | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
setting out how they must satisfy pensions regulators of certain | :50:45. | :50:46. | |
criteria before they can begin continue to operate. The criteria | :50:47. | :50:52. | |
were developed in discussion with the industry in response to specific | :50:53. | :50:56. | |
key risks. While the Bill provides some detail, much more will be set | :50:57. | :51:01. | |
out in regulations after further consultation with the industry and | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
others. The Bill gives the regulator new powers to supervise master | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
trusts and to step in when schemes fall below the required standards, | :51:11. | :51:13. | |
and it gives the readily get additional powers when master trusts | :51:14. | :51:18. | |
experience the risk events. His scheme that has experienced such an | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
event will be required to resolve the issue or wind-up. Along with the | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
regulator 's new powers, this supports continuity of saving for | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
members, protect members where is the Mr wind-up, and supports | :51:32. | :51:35. | |
employers with the automatic enrolment duties. To protect members | :51:36. | :51:39. | |
of existing schemes, some aspects of the regime will have effect from the | :51:40. | :51:45. | |
20th of October this year, 2016, last year, Madam Deputy Speaker. | :51:46. | :51:51. | |
They will report triggering events to the regulator and restrictions on | :51:52. | :51:54. | |
certain charges and the event is resolved. But the Bill also amends | :51:55. | :51:59. | |
existing legislation so that regulations can override relevant | :52:00. | :52:02. | |
contract terms that are inconsistent with those regulations. We intend to | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
use this provision along with existing powers to make regulations | :52:08. | :52:14. | |
capping early exit charges in some occupational pension schemes. Madam | :52:15. | :52:18. | |
Deputy Speaker, when this Bill was introduced in the other place last | :52:19. | :52:23. | |
October, it was welcomed across the pensions industry, and as an | :52:24. | :52:26. | |
essential piece of legislation that will protect millions of people who | :52:27. | :52:32. | |
now safely guard their time to retire -- pensions trust. It has | :52:33. | :52:35. | |
been welcomed by all sides in both houses. We have listened to the | :52:36. | :52:40. | |
points raised in both houses and continued to engage in is with | :52:41. | :52:45. | |
stakeholders and I can confirm that we have brought forward a number of | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
amendments to address their concerns. Any other place, | :52:49. | :52:53. | |
amendments at committee stage mainly related to how the regulator would | :52:54. | :53:00. | |
enforce the new enforcement regime. Amendments focused on registration | :53:01. | :53:02. | |
making powers in the Bill, acknowledging the report any | :53:03. | :53:08. | |
delegating powers in the reform committee. One amendment inserted | :53:09. | :53:11. | |
that powers make limited consequential changes to legislation | :53:12. | :53:15. | |
to ensure the law works as it's huge. We also make a change to allow | :53:16. | :53:22. | |
that provisions of fraud compensation, pensions act 2004, to | :53:23. | :53:25. | |
be modified for master trusts, and that the laws third reading would | :53:26. | :53:29. | |
include a minor technical chase to clarify that regulations may require | :53:30. | :53:35. | |
them to be audited. At committee stage in this House, we agreed on | :53:36. | :53:41. | |
further changes. First it removed a cause that had been inserted after a | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
narrow vote in the other place which provided for a scheme to meet costs | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
by a masterclass is being wound up without the necessary funds to | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
transfer accrued benefits. We discussed this once again at report | :53:55. | :53:59. | |
stage earlier this afternoon, last week that was, when the House | :54:00. | :54:03. | |
excepted the Government's argument that this was unnecessary. In | :54:04. | :54:08. | |
response to a point raised by another place by unintended | :54:09. | :54:13. | |
consequences of the deal, we made amendments in relation to any part | :54:14. | :54:16. | |
of the scheme, not just the money purchase section. The original | :54:17. | :54:23. | |
requirement in the Bill that the scheme is a separate legal entity | :54:24. | :54:26. | |
must try at activity directly relating to the Master trust schemes | :54:27. | :54:30. | |
in question was amended to address concerns about the impact of this | :54:31. | :54:33. | |
requirement on business. The amendments enable scheme finders to | :54:34. | :54:38. | |
operate more than one master trust and to give the estate the | :54:39. | :54:49. | |
accessibility to make exceptions, and Deputy Speaker, I would like to | :54:50. | :54:51. | |
thank honourable members from both sides of the House, the honourable | :54:52. | :54:57. | |
gentleman from Stockton North, who is the shadow spokesman, and the | :54:58. | :55:00. | |
honourable gentleman from Ross Skye and Lochaber particular. I can now | :55:01. | :55:07. | |
pronounce the name of this constituency without reading it, I | :55:08. | :55:11. | |
thank for his contribution. An electable tickly thank the build | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
team from DWP and everyone who has contributed to make this Bill, and | :55:16. | :55:19. | |
leave it is an excellent piece of legislation. I beg to move. | :55:20. | :55:25. | |
The question is that the Bill be now read a third time. Thank you, Madam | :55:26. | :55:34. | |
Deputy Speaker. As we know, the passage of this pensions Bill was | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
interrupted this time last week as a result of a horrendous attack that | :55:40. | :55:42. | |
took place just metres away from this place. I would like to echo | :55:43. | :55:49. | |
remarks of the Minister and express my sincere condolences to everyone | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
who is grieving for a loved one or who is recovering from their | :55:54. | :55:58. | |
injuries. I also want to express my gratitude to the emergency services, | :55:59. | :56:02. | |
especially to the incredible support team that we have working in and | :56:03. | :56:07. | |
around this amazing place. So just to say that how treasured you all | :56:08. | :56:13. | |
are. Onto the Bill. I'd like to put on record my thanks to my honourable | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
friend, the Member for Stockton North, whose unstinting work on this | :56:19. | :56:23. | |
Bill. Our coverage in the other place who's always been mentioned, | :56:24. | :56:28. | |
and they kicked this process. And all our teams for putting this Bill | :56:29. | :56:38. | |
in motion, and increasing protections for the savers being as | :56:39. | :56:46. | |
good as possible. It will come as no surprise that I regret that he has | :56:47. | :56:50. | |
been intransigent and frail to accept our amendments. He may have | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
been constrained but I wish we could have done more on this. It really | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
would have strengthened the Bill. And to have protected savers more | :57:00. | :57:04. | |
than it currently does. However, as it does stand, the Bill goes some | :57:05. | :57:10. | |
way to it increasing protection place for Master Trust savers the | :57:11. | :57:15. | |
vast majority of whom will automatically involve through the | :57:16. | :57:19. | |
sponsoring employee. Employer, sorry. This has not been the easiest | :57:20. | :57:26. | |
Bill to scrutinise. The content is technical of course, but there is an | :57:27. | :57:30. | |
unusual amount of legislation left to secretary regulation. I think | :57:31. | :57:36. | |
this is a real concern, Madam Deputy Speaker. It's becoming a hallmark of | :57:37. | :57:40. | |
this government, it is entirely regrettable. It is not only brought | :57:41. | :57:44. | |
government, with criticisms of the government, who suggested government | :57:45. | :57:49. | |
was writing legislation in lieu of policy, but it also made it | :57:50. | :57:53. | |
difficult for this House to get a full picture of how this legislation | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
will put rate, crew operate in practice. Nevertheless, we point to | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
significant gaps in this government's approach to legislation | :58:04. | :58:07. | |
as well as some parts we believe require the further thought. I'd | :58:08. | :58:10. | |
like to briefly touched on some points here. As my honourable friend | :58:11. | :58:16. | |
mentioned last week, we tried to table amendments to this Bill at | :58:17. | :58:19. | |
committee stage, to enact our commitment to the women who we would | :58:20. | :58:26. | |
extend pension credit to those worst affected. In showing hundreds of | :58:27. | :58:29. | |
thousands of this woman became eligible for up to 156 pounds a | :58:30. | :58:36. | |
week. Sadly these amendments were not selected. It is a disappointment | :58:37. | :58:40. | |
the government did not use the Bill to address the plight of this woman. | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
Labour has a clear costed plan targeted to the most vulnerable | :58:45. | :58:46. | |
women and we are exploring further options to help as many as we can. | :58:47. | :58:54. | |
And given we understand pensions Minister, can put me right, this is | :58:55. | :58:58. | |
going to be the only pensions Bill in this Parliament, there are many | :58:59. | :59:02. | |
other pensions issues that should have been included in a more pump | :59:03. | :59:07. | |
comprehensive pensions Bill. It is a wasted opportunity. Onto the | :59:08. | :59:14. | |
specifics of the Bill. On the funder of last resort, it is a shame that | :59:15. | :59:19. | |
the government did not heed the advice of our noble Lords in the | :59:20. | :59:23. | |
other place. And provide provision to guarantee fund of last resort. | :59:24. | :59:28. | |
Our amendment would ensure the scheme members are protected in the | :59:29. | :59:31. | |
event of a Master Trust being insolvent. It would have offered | :59:32. | :59:35. | |
them a clear route for the drawdown of the saving. The Minister believes | :59:36. | :59:41. | |
that the new regulation regulatory framework. Provides the material to | :59:42. | :59:47. | |
make this cause unnecessary. He seemed unwilling to give a guarantee | :59:48. | :59:52. | |
that no future Master Trust will go bust. I'm glad the Minister has | :59:53. | :59:57. | |
faith in them regulatory regime and I hope his faith is justified for | :59:58. | :00:02. | |
the sake of scheme members. Madam Deputy Speaker, we hope to include, | :00:03. | :00:09. | |
improve the clause of the Bill. Under this, the regulator can step | :00:10. | :00:15. | |
in for a team elation and each unit were failing Master Trust. The | :00:16. | :00:19. | |
government has made an exception of people getting divorced to allow | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
them at to access, access funds. It but did not see fit to offer the | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
same opportunity to, for example, disabled people or those in ill | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
health. This is likely to cause distress to those in desperate need | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
of drawing down the saving. The government also did little to | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
consider what would happen to the savers affected by eight clause | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
order who want to continue putting contribution from the salary and the | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
sponsoring employer aside for retirement. Our amendment had | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
suggested that the employer take responsibility for holding onto the | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
savings until the clause order had ended or a new Master Trust found. | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
Again, the government unfortunately rejected this practical suggestion. | :01:01. | :01:07. | |
With regard to the issue of transparency regarding costs and | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
charges this is one of the scandals of the pension industry. In spite of | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
government promises to tackle it for years, I can remember being a member | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
of the work and pensions Select Committee, going back several years | :01:19. | :01:24. | |
and one of the Treasury ministers promising in the last Parliament | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
that this would be done. We are still waiting. It is one of those | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
issues that unfortunately, we were taking far too long to tackle. I | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
appreciate we got a review that will be published at the end of the year, | :01:40. | :01:42. | |
but that would be too late the legislation. It will be up to the | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
industry to determine what and how and when they will publish around | :01:46. | :01:52. | |
the costs. With charges, this is the real scandal, I wonder if anyone can | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
say how much they know the pension scheme is being charged. It has been | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
estimated that is up to ?120 billion a year, and that affects all savers. | :02:04. | :02:11. | |
We need to decide, really, whose side we are on. Were we look after | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
savers or I began to prop up the pensions industry? We tried to raise | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
the issue of a page costs and charges being applied to members by | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
investment managers and brokers but the government failed to respond | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
again. For too long, people have been encouraged but the faith and | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
the money in a distance savings pot. With very little information about | :02:33. | :02:37. | |
where that was invested, the performance of the savings and | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
importantly, how much the investment was costly in terms of costs and | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
charges they incurred. In short, neither the scheme trustees nor the | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
scheme members have been able to adequately ascertain whether there | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
were getting value for money to the investment. Enormous every market, | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
people looking to purchase a or service provider with basic | :03:00. | :03:01. | |
information about performance and cost of what they are looking to buy | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
in advance of the purchase. This is a necessary requirement to ensure | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
they are getting finally the money but there's basic principle is not | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
operating in our pension system. Part two of the Bill makes a small | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
step towards greater transparency and charges applied to those hoping | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
to make the most of pension freedoms and remove the savings from the | :03:25. | :03:27. | |
Master Trust. But we maintain that is is not enough. Much more could | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
have been done to shine a light in transactions cost being applied to | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
investment returns. The Minister committed the government to | :03:36. | :03:37. | |
implement the recommendations of the SCA but what and the affluent | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
merchant and marking off or surely this could've been a great | :03:42. | :03:43. | |
opportunity for the government to make a start. There is work to be | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
done to tackle the problem of opaque and of, or as excessive charges from | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
workers savings and investment managers. Currently the Bill merely | :03:56. | :04:03. | |
scratches the surface. There remains unanswered questions on the | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
government despite our attempts to clarify. We believe this Bill should | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
increase member representation on trustee board. It is the money being | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
invested and they should be involved. There are pensions act of | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
1995 introduced the requirement for company pension schemes do have | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
member nominated trustees. If the scheme 's sole trustee is a company | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
including the employer rather the then the individual, scheme members | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
will have a right to nominate directors to the company, member | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
nominated get directors. The 2004 act, pensions act, in the enshrined | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
the right have at least a third of trustees and trust -based scheme. | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
This comes from basic democratic principles that those for whom the | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
decisions have been taken should have a say in those decisions. The | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
pension regulator agrees. That Master Trust are covered by this | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
legislation which is why some already have member nominated | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
trustees. They have however turned a blind eye to this matter on the | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
basis of having multiple sponsoring employees presented. We do not | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
believe this is acceptable and have urged the government to try and | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
apply the law in this regard. Scheme members should be represented to | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
trustees of Master Trust funds, it is, as I've said, they have a direct | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
interest in ensuring a sound and a sustainable investment strategy | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
delivered at good value. It is disappointing that the government | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
did not take up this matter which requires urgent action. Nor was a | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
convincing argument given as to why Master Trust should not have to meet | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
the statutory requirement especially in light of the increased risk being | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
bought by scheme members. Finally, it is disappointing that the Bill | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
also does nothing to build upon the success of Labour's policy to | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
involve automatically, by ensuring the master that is accessible, and | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
encourage groups that work excluded by automatic enrolment by the | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
government's changes to eligibility criteria. Throughout these debates, | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
we have recognised the government has announced review of automatic | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
enrolment, but we have not heard the explanation of why the review comes | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
after the spill. The self-employed, women, those working multiple jobs, | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
carers and people on low incomes can all benefit hugely from enhanced | :06:23. | :06:28. | |
opportunities to say -- save towards the inner retirement. The government | :06:29. | :06:35. | |
will not commit to a review, we will hold them to account to review | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
itself, took to ensure that these excluded groups are dated. To | :06:40. | :06:46. | |
conclude, we welcome legislation to strengthen the regulation of Master | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
Trust. We have tried to address serious issues in these debates | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
through pragmatic engagement with the Bill and highlighting its many | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
gaps. One would have thought that the government will have time to | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
include much more detail in this piece of Barbara legislation, to | :07:03. | :07:05. | |
allow a proper scrutiny of both places. It seems however, that they | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
are and are unable to get their act together as part of pensions. I can | :07:12. | :07:21. | |
hear the noise from the other benches, I think there is dissent | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
there. We hope that through the debates, we have drawn attention to | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
these important issues and the need to create further security and | :07:32. | :07:34. | |
dignity in retirement for working families across the UK. Thank you. | :07:35. | :07:46. | |
Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I also say myself with the remarks | :07:47. | :07:53. | |
that were made by the Minister, the about the events of last Wednesday, | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
we should also reflect the debate outside the chamber that | :07:57. | :08:05. | |
our thoughts are very much with those in the line of duty. The | :08:06. | :08:18. | |
police officer that lost his life, and the public who lost their lives. | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
Our thoughts are with them. When having this debate, we should | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
reflect on our responsibility in this House. That is to make sure we | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
are creating an architecture that creates a climate that consumers | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
around the UK can safely invest in pension schemes and savings, there | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
was a level of trust. On that basis, I welcome broadly, this Bill in | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
improving that landscape. It's an important step forward. Insofar as | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
that it brings a level of protection which is necessary for those who are | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
investing through automatic enrolment. It is an crucial that -- | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
is it is crucial that it has come forward. I like that the | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
spokespersons from the Labour front bench would see the amendments by | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
the government. Having said that, I was encouraged by the response of | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
the Minister who responded last week, in particular to the amendment | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
that had been moved in relation to section 70 five. And that there is a | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
commitment that can come back out on leaders of this issue. I think the | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
Bill has got to be seen within the wider context of what we are seeking | :09:29. | :09:34. | |
to achieve in pension. The work two clauses that are worth taking for | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
debate, one was on the establishment of a pensions and savings | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
commission, and I still believe that this is something that the | :09:42. | :09:44. | |
government should consider. There is an awful lot going on on the | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
landscape. Some of that has been described by the Labour in the | :09:50. | :09:56. | |
speech have heard. The fact that we've had the review, we got the | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
green paper on benefit pension schemes, and we've got the paper. | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
There is a willingness to work Collegiate league in order to | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
improve the landscape of all of these factors. I forward to the | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
debates we will be having on taking this forward. It all comes back to | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
the point that I made about how we create confidence that | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
If I put this in the context of the defining benefit in the paper that | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
came out, one of the most striking things is the figure which is | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
contained in the front of that for the court, which indicates that the | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
average is ?70,000, and I think we all have to accept that pension | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
saving is not done at appropriate level in this country, and we all | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
want to see people saving to the extent that they can have dignity in | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
their retirement, also in the workplace pension and in the state | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
pension as well. I look forward to working with the Government to have | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
that review. We know that whilst they are improving that landscape | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
for protection for consumers today, we know there is more we need to do | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
in terms of protecting in particular are a lot of women who are excluded | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
from this, those who are in part-time jobs, below the threshold, | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
and those who are self-employed and are often exploited. I applaud the | :11:24. | :11:25. | |
Government for what they are doing here, I see it as a very necessary | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
step forward, but there's much more that can do in working together for | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
mutual benefit for those who invest in pension schemes. The question is | :11:35. | :11:45. | |
that the Bill should be ready third time. Those in favour say aye, | :11:46. | :11:54. | |
though to the contrary, no. The ayes have it. The clerk will now proceed | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
to read the title of the Private Bill set down for consideration | :11:59. | :12:09. | |
today. - level Bill, second reading. -- the question is that the Bill be | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
now read i.e. Second time, Mr Kevin Foster. Thank you Madam Deputy is | :12:15. | :12:21. | |
bigger and it is a joy to hear your colleagues so loudly in moving this | :12:22. | :12:27. | |
Bill. We move for this Bill to be read a second time. It might be | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
helpful for the House of I give some background and reasons for this Bill | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
being here. The first point for those... Are happily give way once I | :12:35. | :12:42. | |
make a bit progress. They will be opportunity for debate. It might be | :12:43. | :12:45. | |
helpful for the House to get some background and the reasons for this | :12:46. | :12:48. | |
Bill being here. The first point for those not familiar with it, what is | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
the middle level? It is the central and larger section, the great level | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
that was reclaimed by drainage in the mid-17th century. There is a | :13:00. | :13:06. | |
north-west and east, to the north by the previously trained Martin | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
stilts, and the Dom and amid lovely river system consisted of 120 miles | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
of water courses, approximately 100 miles of which are statutory | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
navigations, a catchment of just 170,000 acres. Vitriol of the | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
fenland it lies below means sea-level. The middle level | :13:28. | :13:29. | |
Commissioners, together with the local internal drainage board, | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
operate a highly complex water level management system. This now see the | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
various water uses and requirements and alleviated the flooding of land | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
and property. The efficient operation of it this system is vital | :13:45. | :13:47. | |
to the safety and prosperity of over 100,000 people who live and work in | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
area and the 26,000 properties that depend on that system. In a moment, | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
I will just it make a little bit more progress. The operators of the | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
commissioners and the local board, much of the fenland would be under | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
water for much of the year, and many of the present land uses would be | :14:07. | :14:12. | |
impossible. I will now give way. I thank him for giving way. The levels | :14:13. | :14:18. | |
are very important because they often have a quite sensitive | :14:19. | :14:20. | |
archaeology. I wonder whether what he is proposing will effect that in | :14:21. | :14:26. | |
the slightest. I thank the honourable member for his | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
intervention. By understanding from these response of the Bill is that | :14:31. | :14:32. | |
this is about framework for management of the levels, it is not | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
about specific developments are any projects. Visit the commissioners | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
went to decide this or that, they would have to go through the usual | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
processes to get permissions, and given some historical nature of this | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
site we are talking about, that would be taken into consideration. I | :14:52. | :14:59. | |
thank him for that intervention. Can I ask him, but his status as? He's | :15:00. | :15:05. | |
telling us about this Bill and the location of it, but he doesn't | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
represent an area anywhere near the affected area, and I wondered why it | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
has not been possible for the promoters of this Bill to find a | :15:15. | :15:20. | |
local MP who is sympathetic to the points that are being put forward. I | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
thank him for his intervention. I know he is a scrutinise bills, even | :15:25. | :15:31. | |
if they are not those that directly relate to Christchurch. Like me, he | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
takes his duties as a member of the overall very seriously in terms of | :15:36. | :15:45. | |
promoting legislation and debating. I know he champions in this chamber | :15:46. | :15:52. | |
and rightly so. Where this Bill has been discussed some of the MPs are | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
directly affected and Government ministers, Inc and so this is a | :15:57. | :15:59. | |
Private Bill and they are unable to move it as he will be aware, at | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
least BA backbench member for obvious reasons. Given the address I | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
have expressed in waterways before and also in seeing consistent | :16:09. | :16:11. | |
management in terms of this area, that it was appropriate that this | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
legislation fell attached to be presented to the House and all | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
members have the opportunity to dissipate in the debate. And sure we | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
will hear from me is one of the local members affected and from the | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
local honourable gentlemen cell who will share his own insights. I am | :16:29. | :16:39. | |
not directly affected, but the trade and waterways in question are | :16:40. | :16:42. | |
adjacent to my own constituency and I support their 100% and would like | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
the way he's moving. I figured as appropriate, that having a local MP | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
moving in, maybe there could be conflict of some kind, so having an | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
MP from another part of the country to give the commissioners more power | :16:55. | :16:57. | |
and is a great deal of sense, and we're grateful him. At like my | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
honourable friend for that intervention. I couldn't have put it | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
better myself. Moving on to buy a Bill. As many will know, I made a | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
point on Friday that legislating is not a thing to do for the fun of it | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
or a unique form of parliamentary sport. For a Bill to be worthy of | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
Parliamentary time, there must be a clear need for it. This Private Bill | :17:20. | :17:26. | |
is being promoted by the commissioners that our concert you | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
did on the middle level act 1862. The commissioners provide flood | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
defence and water level management in the area, and the navigational | :17:34. | :17:36. | |
authority from the middle level river system. The legal framework | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
that covers the commissioners navigation function is made of a | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
number of 18th and 19th century Acts, they dilated waterways that | :17:47. | :17:49. | |
may themselves be laid out in the 17th century. May act of you, Madam | :17:50. | :17:59. | |
Deputy is Speaker, my apologies for my lateness. I was detained. With my | :18:00. | :18:07. | |
honourable friend agree that the area covered only middle level | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
commission is not strictly analogous to other authorities in that the | :18:13. | :18:20. | |
middle level area is essentially a connected to basins rather than | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
bespoke revellers. I thank him for his intervention. Again showing his | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
exceptional knowledge of his constituency and the assets that the | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
board. He is right, a fundamental beaver commando when told about | :18:35. | :18:38. | |
framework regulation. This is about the drainage system, but of course | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
they have developed a pleasure boat usage and other uses as time has | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
progressed. One of the reasons for this Bill is the fact that some of | :18:48. | :18:50. | |
the uses would not have been envisaged at the time in the 18th | :18:51. | :18:56. | |
century -- 19th-century, motor boats did not exist at that time and the | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
concept of denials was very different during that period. I want | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
to make some progress just what a moment and then I will be happy to | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
give way. As I was touching on, the regulation for these waterways is | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
mainly laid out in the 17th century, these acts are now considerably out | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
of date and do not align with our requirements by the statutory | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
framework of the navigation authorities, in particularly current | :19:26. | :19:27. | |
legal framework which governs the commissioners do not include | :19:28. | :19:30. | |
adequate provision for the registration of vessels used in the | :19:31. | :19:33. | |
waterways or the leading of charges for the use of the waterways and | :19:34. | :19:36. | |
associated facilities. It may be thing with the promoters of this | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
Bill, it was remarked how this might mean is exempted from pleasure craft | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
and those transporting manure. As a result, the commission is currently | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
do not receive any income from navigation of the waterways. This | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
has meant that money made to drainage rate and levies have had to | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
be used to find navigation rather than flood defences. In the | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
financial year ending the 31st of March 2016, this amounted to | :20:02. | :20:11. | |
?108,000. This was unfunded expenditure. The question is seeking | :20:12. | :20:14. | |
to update and clarify their powers to enable them to properly regulate | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
and find waterways. The powers are similar to those already used by | :20:20. | :20:22. | |
other large inland navigation authorities, for example the canal | :20:23. | :20:25. | |
and river trust, the Environment Agency and the boards authority. | :20:26. | :20:31. | |
Future maintenance and management of the waterway will be funded in a | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
similar way. Not based on one set of users, and those who benefit can be | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
asked to contribute to it. In terms of why a Private Bill, the | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
Commissioner originally proposed to update their legislation in 2000, | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
using a transport and Works order, and approach the death rather do | :20:50. | :20:55. | |
this. But they considered the charging schemes which would be | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
outside the powers and the commission proposals did not proceed | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
any further. Having consulted on updated proposals, the commissioners | :21:06. | :21:08. | |
approach them again in 2016. Manitoba 2016I understand that | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
apparat confronted position had not changed and that the WHO can not be | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
used in this instance. Their reasoning was that it could not be | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
used to impose charges on a navigation when the primary | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
legislation governing it does not itself contain charging provisions, | :21:27. | :21:28. | |
as is the case with the middle level navigation. It was therefore the | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
commissioners pursued a Private Bill to update the powers. I'm sure | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
members will agree to the right approach, and given that we can have | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
this debate this evening on these important subjects. Whilst it is the | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
first opportunity for a wider debate in the House on this matter, the | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
proposals will not come as a surprise to those might be affected, | :21:53. | :21:55. | |
as there has been a wider consultation already. He is making a | :21:56. | :22:09. | |
very good speech. Can I just put it to him that at first sight this is | :22:10. | :22:15. | |
an attempt to regularise vis-a-vis other navigation authorities | :22:16. | :22:18. | |
legislation to the middle level, but what is missing on the face of the | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
Bill, and it might be different from secondary legislation, is any | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
commensurate commitment to update facility which is as similar to | :22:29. | :22:31. | |
other navigational authorities, and that is the Achilles heel of this | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
Bill, where it may need to be looked at again by this House or in the | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
other place. I thank him for his intervention. I agree with him that | :22:41. | :22:50. | |
there is clearly, nobly was be paying extra charges for the same | :22:51. | :22:53. | |
facilities, but if we don't change the legal framework, then it is | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
asking those using this for drainage to pay for facilities for those | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
wishing use it for navigation. That means it is very unlikely those will | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
ever be developed. It would need to go hand-in-hand. Our command to his | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
response about the petitioners, of the viewers I've had come back for | :23:13. | :23:23. | |
from them about this point. This will very briefly. And grateful to | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
him. If you rightly say that this consultation to place at same time | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
as the EU referendum, which we celebrate the outcome of today, and | :23:35. | :23:40. | |
is it also right to say that the march cruising club, for example, | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
which has headquarters almost opposite the offices for the | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
commissioners, that that club was not consulted, and other petitioners | :23:49. | :23:54. | |
were not consulted other? I thank him. I know she, like myself, would | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
agree that most people are more than able to have two issues going at the | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
same time. While the EU referendum was a very important referendum that | :24:04. | :24:06. | |
many people in this House engaged in, I know he engaged passionately | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
putting his side down, but whether other things other members have had | :24:11. | :24:17. | |
different items on the agenda. Nobody would take part in this | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
consultation... There have been petitioners deposited in relation to | :24:23. | :24:28. | |
the Dell, and one thing if this gets to second reading is the petitioners | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
would then be heard at a Private Bill committee, where we could | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
scrutinise in more depth, so I would hope he receive this to give this | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
Bill its second reading so those points can be made and we can look | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
at how we can work constructively and appropriately to reframe this as | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
a modern framework for regulation, rather than continuing with one that | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
is mostly based on the needs of the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries, very | :24:53. | :24:55. | |
briefly... She maybe keep... and bringing into life in ways, such | :24:56. | :25:18. | |
as the canal and river trust. It is a question long overdue for an | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
update. Thank you to the honourable member for his intervention. Rosie | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
Zwingli, the exact point is made is that if the current system of | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
regulation that, grow dates from another era, the health isn't the | :25:33. | :25:39. | |
petition to refer other areas to the system. It is noticeable there is a | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
demand for change. It might be helpful or members if I go through | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
the consultation that took place between February and June 20 16. He | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
has notified parties, land range interest, and local authorities, | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
publishing news two newspaper notices on the website. We received | :25:59. | :26:07. | |
18 responses, three neutral, and to oppose. The supporters included the | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
Inland waterways Association, the East Anglian waterways Association, | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
the National Association of boat owners, the middle level Watermans | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
club, the residential boat owners Association, the Association of | :26:22. | :26:23. | |
waterway cruising club and five local council. The honourable member | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
who represents the nearby constituency, indicated this as | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
well. I would say, mentioning the support, it is right to mention the | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
concerns as well. Six petitions have been deposited against the Bill from | :26:38. | :26:43. | |
individuals with varying degrees of interest in the waterways. The | :26:44. | :26:46. | |
cruising club mentioned by the honourable mention, | :26:47. | :26:53. | |
this has been raised in petitions and in response for the honourable | :26:54. | :27:00. | |
member for question. If the Bill is given second reading, we will | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
respond to them prior to the Bill committee stage. And both the | :27:05. | :27:07. | |
commissioners and the petition will have the opportunity to give | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
evidence directly supporting the case. This will determined the line | :27:11. | :27:16. | |
by line detail of the Bill and also that the Bill has been proved. The | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
Bill is a long, complex one, and I do not intend for the benefit of the | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
members to go through every aspect of this Bill and every aspect of the | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
petition race. There are two issues I should cover at the stage which | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
may assist the House. The first is the issue in relation to houseboat | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
owners. For some, the middle level is the home, not just a pleasure of | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
watercourse. I recognise that one of the petitions is the national bard | :27:42. | :27:45. | |
is travelling Association, I have raised this issue particular in | :27:46. | :27:48. | |
relation to the Bill's power. I have been advised to say that the | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
commissioners are a public authority bound by the Human Rights Act, to | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
complying with the Convention rights. If removing a vessel, would | :27:56. | :28:00. | |
challenge the article eight rights, for a wide, grow private family | :28:01. | :28:06. | |
life, this would only be done if it is proportionate. It is more likely | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
to be proportionate if a person fails to meet safety standards or | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
its owner consistently refuses to get insurance. But not if there is a | :28:16. | :28:24. | |
genuine breach of licence. The commission can throw this out in | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
more detail, in registration bylaws, if this Bill was passed. And those | :28:29. | :28:37. | |
bylaws would be subject to a ministerial investigation. We can | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
discuss this more at committee stage. Those that make this place | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
the home could also benefit from more securities and a more | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
modernised system of regulation and legal framework around the middle | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
level. The second point is the one the honourable member for | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
Peterborough has mentioned, which is the idea of paying more but no | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
facilities. An income tax on using this stretch of water. I accept, and | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
I think the Bill's promoters do as well. This has to be a two-way | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
street. The cannabis be more charges for those who navigate and a similar | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
service at the end. There has to be a clear benefit. Having raised this | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
with the Bill's promoters, they advised me that the commissioners | :29:21. | :29:22. | |
recognise that navigator is being asked to pay charges will have to | :29:23. | :29:25. | |
get something in return for their money. No two ways about that. They | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
have agreed with the Inland waterways Association, East Anglia | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
and waterways Association, and the National Association of boat owners | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
to set up a if passed. This will discuss maintenance and improvements | :29:40. | :29:45. | |
before charges are set. The precise arrangements have been agreed but | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
the commission has certainly set up detail if that was helpful, and I | :29:51. | :29:54. | |
hope that gives them reassurance to the House that again this is a | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
matter we can explore in some depth at community stage. Although I would | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
make a point that we are talking about the older acts up currently | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
regulating it, we must look carefully how much we want to but on | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
the face of a Bill that is how much consensus we have to allow | :30:12. | :30:13. | |
flexibility from day-to-day management of the level. There is a | :30:14. | :30:19. | |
lot of detail I could go into the in discussing this Bill. Particularly | :30:20. | :30:22. | |
relating to the patchwork of rather elderly acts that regulate that | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
waterway. And allowed timing for debate, I will not go through them | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
all. But I will respond to points in this debate am I look forward to the | :30:31. | :30:34. | |
Minister's comments as well. I knew for a second reading to make the | :30:35. | :30:40. | |
case and so the middle level can have an modern, up-to-date system of | :30:41. | :30:47. | |
regulation that it deserves. The Bill be now read a second time. I am | :30:48. | :30:55. | |
pleased arise to speak to the private Bill on behalf of the | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
official opposition. Can I thank the honourable member for Torbay, for | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
giving such a thorough covering of the background of the issue as | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
needed. I'd like to emphasise a few points because I think it's | :31:10. | :31:12. | |
important the House as a clear understanding about the proposals | :31:13. | :31:19. | |
and why this is needed. The Bill updates and amends the powers of | :31:20. | :31:22. | |
middle level commissioners. It brings the middle level into light | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
with powers granted to the Environment Agency, the canal and | :31:28. | :31:30. | |
River trust and the Norfolk Broads authority. We have heard that the | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
existing legislation dates from the 18th and 19th centuries, primarily | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
the middle level act of 1862. So it is remarkably out of date. The | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
middle level commissioners provide flood defence and water management | :31:46. | :31:50. | |
to the middle level area, and they are the navigational authority for | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
the middle level river system. The middle level is the largest of the | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
great level of defence. It was proclaimed by drainage of the land | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
back in the 17th century. It currently consists of over 120 miles | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
of water courses, with 100 of these being set free. But in the | :32:08. | :32:13. | |
operations of the commissioners and the local drainage boards, much of | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
this land would be underwater. As much of it is below sea level. This | :32:18. | :32:23. | |
would have a devastating impact on the hundred thousand people who live | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
and work in this area. The commissioners have consulted widely | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
and family with interested parties, and the substantial majority were in | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
favour of the proposed changes. So in a nutshell, the Bill would allow | :32:39. | :32:41. | |
the middle level commissioners to charge vessels to use the waterways, | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
to fine people staying longer then allowed on moorings, to check they | :32:47. | :32:52. | |
have valid insurance, to remove sunken or abandoned vessels, | :32:53. | :32:55. | |
temporarily close sections waterways for work or events, and enter it | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
into arrangements with other navigation authorities of the mutual | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
recognition of red Cliff, the registration and license. Chris | :33:06. | :33:11. | |
Howells, who is a local boat enthusiast, told the local newspaper | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
in 2016 that he agreed with the commission's plan. He cited the | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
apparently abandoned boat rotting away on the old. These could be get | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
rid off under the new powers. He said that the proposals are | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
potentially so exciting and so beneficial, that it is hugely | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
important that they come to fruition. So if we want this to | :33:33. | :33:39. | |
aspire to be a tourist destination my column, generating income to | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
invest in our currently largely successful waterways is a necessary | :33:44. | :33:49. | |
stage. The chief Executive of the middle level commissioner, said it | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
is important that we update the laws, to enable us to have better | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
control of the waterways that we oversee. Additional income for the | :33:56. | :34:02. | |
commissioners could make a real difference to the waterways. I | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
personally know the area well, having living, lived there for a | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
number of years. I would support efforts to boost a local economy. | :34:12. | :34:18. | |
This brings the middle level into the 21st century in line with other | :34:19. | :34:21. | |
navigation authorities, and we would support it. Minister Theresa Coffey. | :34:22. | :34:41. | |
I am delighted to see my honourable member for North West Norfolk, as it | :34:42. | :34:47. | |
is his birthday today. It shows how dedicated he is for the -- about his | :34:48. | :34:54. | |
constituency duty. That is covered by the middle level can stitch, | :34:55. | :35:02. | |
growth legislation, that includes my honourable friend for Southeast | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
Norfolk and Northeast Cambridge. Being members of the government, | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
they cannot speak directly to this Bill. Thank you for the kind | :35:11. | :35:16. | |
remarks. Shall be aware of two things. First, quite a lot of the | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
navigation traffic of boats and other crafts start in King's Lynn or | :35:22. | :35:27. | |
in my constituency, they go upstream into waterways. Another point I'm | :35:28. | :35:34. | |
sure she'll come onto, she and I share a passion for flood defences. | :35:35. | :35:38. | |
The extra money will be used to secure some of these waterways to | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
prevent flooding. But obviously would be devastating for all of us | :35:43. | :35:45. | |
around the farm areas and many people who make their living in this | :35:46. | :35:51. | |
particular area. As my honourable friend has pointed out, his | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
constituency is ensuring that people who start the journey in his | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
constituency are well served. I recognise what he says about the | :36:00. | :36:02. | |
ability of waterways to help with flooding. The main purpose of the | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
middle Level Bill is to amend and update the powers of the middle | :36:07. | :36:09. | |
level commissioners to regulate the middle level in the city of | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
Peterborough, and the counters of Cambridge and Norfolk. The | :36:14. | :36:16. | |
commissioners being the navigational authorities of the waterways have | :36:17. | :36:20. | |
these powers to arrange local Acts passed between 1663 and 1874. They | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
are the fourth largest in the navigation authority in the country, | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
by length and narrow waterway. They have previously lobbied my | :36:32. | :36:34. | |
department, as my honourable friend laid out, as we the lead policy | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
Department for navigation in land matters in this country. They wanted | :36:39. | :36:41. | |
to take forward legislation in powers. Given the constraint on | :36:42. | :36:48. | |
topic time, and the local focus, it was on our advice of the commission | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
support for this private Bill and I welcome the work in bringing this | :36:53. | :36:58. | |
board. With regards to government scrutiny of the Bill, as the | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
Minister responsible, I want to be satisfied that the proposed | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
legislation of this Bill is fit for purpose. I believe that it is as the | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
existing leading framework that governments the function, is now | :37:13. | :37:15. | |
considerably dated. Not only do some of the current laws that the | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
Minister is working to remove, they do not allow for modern | :37:20. | :37:25. | |
requirements. They do not align with statutory framework, including in | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
particular the commissioners neighbouring navigational authority, | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
which is responsible for navigation on the river. This Bill will update | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
this legislation. Unlike many other navigation authorities such as the | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
Environment Agency, which I have this version, the commissioners do | :37:46. | :37:48. | |
not have charging powers to licensed boats with user navigation. This | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
Bill will allow that to happen, and give them powers to introduce a | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
registration scheme for vessels using waterways. It will give | :37:57. | :37:58. | |
commission similar powers already exercise for other authorities such | :37:59. | :38:04. | |
as the canals agency and the boards authority in respect of the | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
navigation. The Bill will, importantly, not all to the | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
commission's existing duty to maintain the navigation is, nor | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
affect the public's right of navigation on the waterway. As a | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
consequence, Madam Deputy Speaker, the government will be content for | :38:21. | :38:32. | |
this Bill to make progress. I begin my speech by remarking about the | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
fact that all politics is local, we are discussing the Middle Level Bill | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
and earlier today, we were talking about major geopolitical issues | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
including the voting of article 50. Such is the cornucopia of delight in | :38:48. | :38:54. | |
the House of Commons. I believe that this Bill should not be the subject | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
of a division. I think it is important we have a full and | :39:00. | :39:06. | |
combines of debate today, but as it proceeds to build committee, so that | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
as my honourable friend the Member for Torbay, who so eloquently | :39:12. | :39:14. | |
introduced the Bill as a sponsor said, it can be looked at in much | :39:15. | :39:22. | |
more detail. As we go on. I am a local member of Parliament but as my | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
honourable friend the Minister is dead, it has not been possible for | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
both ministers directly affected, but principally, my neighbour the | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
honourable gentleman for North East amateur, to take part in this | :39:35. | :39:38. | |
debate, as he is a government whip. But as members will know, the | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
waterways on which we are discussing, and of debate, do meet | :39:44. | :39:51. | |
at the city of Peterborough. So I have a connection and interest in | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
the substance of this debate. I might make the point that in | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
Cambridge, it is the revenue, if Northampton, quote Northamptonshire | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
it is the river Nairn for some bizarre reason. May I pay tribute to | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
one of the petitioners, my constituent Chris Taylor, of new | :40:11. | :40:13. | |
Brewer, who has been indefatigable in raising this issue and to | :40:14. | :40:22. | |
My concern and his is that I believe that the petitioning period was | :40:23. | :40:33. | |
insufficient, there has not been a proper debate on this matter, and I | :40:34. | :40:39. | |
do think principally that there hasn't been a costly therefore | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
analysis, and the reason I put that point of view forward is that, as I | :40:45. | :40:51. | |
said to him, we're not looking at a navigation authority which is | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
analogous to others, such as the Port authority known across the | :40:55. | :41:01. | |
country, which do provide better facilities, in fact provide any | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
facilities. Therefore, to give on the face of the Bill legislative | :41:06. | :41:13. | |
power to impose charges without upgrading those facilities would be | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
draconian and a retrograde step, and that is essentially why I think we | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
need to debate this matter further in committee. I understand the | :41:24. | :41:31. | |
imperative legally to regularise the legal basis for the navigational | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
authorities duties and responsibilities, with the proviso | :41:37. | :41:39. | |
of course that the Government doesn't get involved in the detailed | :41:40. | :41:45. | |
operational matters of the authority. But it does oversee their | :41:46. | :41:54. | |
statutory duties, and I understand that they broadly supported the need | :41:55. | :42:02. | |
to update and amend on the basis that they put in the documentation. | :42:03. | :42:09. | |
Because it is, as the minister said, very aged legislation, it is not | :42:10. | :42:15. | |
just 17th-century legislation, that the minister said, the middle level | :42:16. | :42:22. | |
act of 1810 to 1874, the act of 1753, the land drainage act of 1991, | :42:23. | :42:29. | |
and the flood of the management act of 2000 -- 2010, because what we're | :42:30. | :42:34. | |
talking about is not a traditional canal or river, we're talking about | :42:35. | :42:44. | |
interconnected open drains, which were used and drained in the 17th | :42:45. | :42:49. | |
century in order to release land for agriculture and other uses. Because | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
it is below sea level, until that period it was effectively an inland | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
sea. The town of Whittlesea, the clue is in the name, it was pretty | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
wet and it was not used greatly, although I would say of course as a | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
local MP that it has some of the finest Agut cultural land in Britain | :43:10. | :43:15. | |
if not Europe, because that is incredibly well irrigated. -- | :43:16. | :43:18. | |
agricultural. We have to look at the fact that this navigation authority | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
is difference of Stansted from those more traditional navigational | :43:24. | :43:28. | |
authorities. The key issue which has caused concern is not just the very | :43:29. | :43:36. | |
basic issue of charges, as covered in part two, clause three and | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
potentially clause nine under the bylaws of this Bill. But the fact | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
that it is a contention of the petitioners, and I accept that they | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
are in the minority, but it is a contention that those, not quite | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
ancient rights, but well-established historical rights bestowed upon them | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
in the latter part of the 17th century by the Duke of Bedford a | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
major landowner, to the east of Peterborough and in the fence as a | :44:03. | :44:07. | |
whole, that Rose are being curtailed and reduced, so that the rights of | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
navigation. They make a contention in their petition and further papers | :44:13. | :44:18. | |
that those rates go back much further, beyond the Magna Carter and | :44:19. | :44:24. | |
1215, even to the fourth century. That is a major issue. If I could | :44:25. | :44:30. | |
put more detail on the complaint they have. Bearing in mind, this is | :44:31. | :44:37. | |
about charges on pleasure boats. The 600 pleasure those that use this | :44:38. | :44:43. | |
hundred miles of waterway every year, it is not about commercial | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
activity. I accept that in these economic times it is one has to look | :44:50. | :44:52. | |
where one can have a public authority in order to secure extra | :44:53. | :44:57. | |
funding. It cannot just come from landowners and farmers and the | :44:58. | :45:00. | |
taxpayer, they have to look at other ways. I do not have an ideological | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
aversion to further tools and charges, but I do have an aversion | :45:06. | :45:12. | |
to any unfairness to people who are existing users of the facilities. At | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
the moment, there are no services on this waterway. There are no | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
motorboats. There are no mood rings or toilets showers are collection | :45:24. | :45:29. | |
points for rubbish. More importantly, notwithstanding the | :45:30. | :45:32. | |
fact that secondary legislation might ameliorate the issue, at the | :45:33. | :45:35. | |
moment they are not on the face of the Bill and are not promised. I | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
think that is and ported point made in the documentation by the | :45:42. | :45:44. | |
residential boat owners Association, and the National Bard Travelers | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
Association. I think there is an important issue to raise correctly, | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
by my honourable friend, that there is an issue of human rights | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
legislation because if under article eight you are curtailing the right | :45:59. | :46:02. | |
to a family life by removing a passage those people to enjoy what | :46:03. | :46:07. | |
is their home, a barge for instance, or a pleasure cruiser, then that is | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
a wider legal issue, and I'm sure that may be explored further in | :46:12. | :46:23. | |
committee. Thank you for giving way. Would you not accept though it is | :46:24. | :46:29. | |
not a question of using levies for fees provide services, but also | :46:30. | :46:32. | |
there is an essential maintenance that is needed, because these are | :46:33. | :46:37. | |
maintained and in the worst case scenario you can have the banks | :46:38. | :46:41. | |
giving way, because after all as he rightly points out, this was an | :46:42. | :46:47. | |
error that was drained in the 16th century. -- area. It is eight | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
question of maintaining the fabric of these waterways. May act actually | :46:53. | :47:01. | |
congratulations of the House for his birthday. He is pretty ageless. | :47:02. | :47:07. | |
Felicitations to my honourable friend. He is right, the flood | :47:08. | :47:15. | |
prevention, flood ameliorate and is massively important, we agree. I | :47:16. | :47:24. | |
will give way. Coming as I do from Somerset, I am not familiar with the | :47:25. | :47:31. | |
exact area, but example is just the same, surely any income that can be | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
raised from navigation of the waterways would be welcomed, because | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
currently, as I understand it, money for the drainage levies that ought | :47:41. | :47:48. | |
to be going to vital prevention work to protect your precious farmland is | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
indeed being diverted to navigation work? This legislation is just | :47:54. | :47:57. | |
tightening that up, to correct this injustice. I am mindful of time and | :47:58. | :48:04. | |
other members wish to contribute, so I will wrap up, because the whip is | :48:05. | :48:11. | |
giving the the evil eye. And only her most endearing way. I don't | :48:12. | :48:19. | |
think... I defer to the knowledge of my honourable friend, and I know | :48:20. | :48:26. | |
that in Somerset they suffered the most appalling drama of widescale | :48:27. | :48:32. | |
flooding five years ago or thereabouts, and I don't think it is | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
mutually exclusive four hours to be removing sunken boats, dredging and | :48:38. | :48:43. | |
do a important in infrastructure work there needs to be done, but I | :48:44. | :48:47. | |
think it needs to be done on a more systematic way, I am unconvinced as | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
to whether this Private Bill, which seeks to be quite innocuous, but is | :48:52. | :48:57. | |
potentially quite Kone invited imposes on people whose rights have | :48:58. | :49:01. | |
been established for many hundreds of years, I'm not convinced. I will | :49:02. | :49:08. | |
conclude by saying, Madam Deputy Speaker and has been a pleasure to | :49:09. | :49:11. | |
have had the opportunity to represent Mr Taylor and some of the | :49:12. | :49:16. | |
other people, if we are not here to represent unfashionable views of our | :49:17. | :49:19. | |
constituents then we are wasting our time. But I hope will happen is that | :49:20. | :49:26. | |
in the course of the debate, about this Bill, that both the petitioners | :49:27. | :49:31. | |
and others with a key interest in the middle level will have an | :49:32. | :49:36. | |
opportunity to have a cordial and productive meeting with the middle | :49:37. | :49:39. | |
level Commissioners, and when it goes to committee, they will take on | :49:40. | :49:44. | |
board some of those comments and the Bill will be improved so that we can | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
regularise the legislative necessity for this Bill, but at the same time | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
keep faith in those people who are the lifeblood of this area, the | :49:54. | :49:58. | |
pleasure boat users, because we need to look after their interests. I | :49:59. | :50:03. | |
hope we will find a mutually beneficial compromise in the near | :50:04. | :50:11. | |
future. Thank you madam that the Speaker, I am Michael of the hour, | :50:12. | :50:16. | |
so I'll keep my contribution brief. As a member of the APPG on | :50:17. | :50:22. | |
waterways, and as a narrow boat enthusiast -- narrow boat | :50:23. | :50:25. | |
enthusiasts. I support this Private Bill today. I would like to take if | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
you manage to explain why. Across the country, we have benefited and | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
continue to benefit from an incredible network of over 2000 | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
miles of canals, waterways and other navigations. In my own constituency, | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
we have the Essington and were later now, a canal that we have taken our | :50:47. | :50:52. | |
own boat on. I've never been on the middle levels yet. Once the means | :50:53. | :50:58. | |
for transporting goods in and out and across the West Midlands, today | :50:59. | :51:02. | |
it is very much a place for walking and for leisure. The work of the | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
canal and the river trust, the aid in what ways Association and others | :51:08. | :51:10. | |
including many local organisations, charities and voluntary groups, we | :51:11. | :51:16. | |
have seen a remarkable revival in our waterways in recent years, and | :51:17. | :51:20. | |
we are seeing them being put under more sustainable footing. But | :51:21. | :51:27. | |
turning to this Private Bill, the middle level Bill, it relates | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
specifically, as we've heard, to the central and larger section of the | :51:32. | :51:35. | |
great level of the fence, an area we claim by that I can be claimed by an | :51:36. | :51:39. | |
drainage in the mid-17th century, and there are members him a far more | :51:40. | :51:44. | |
local knowledge than I would ever declare having, but it covers 120 | :51:45. | :51:49. | |
miles of watercourses, 100 of which are statutory navigation. The Bill | :51:50. | :51:53. | |
in front of us today seeks to modernise the Commissioner 's | :51:54. | :51:59. | |
operations and powers, in particular allows them to levy charges and uses | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
of the waterways to pay for the navigation functions. I will very | :52:05. | :52:10. | |
briefly give way. One of the issues that has been in the press can last | :52:11. | :52:13. | |
few days is the amount of litter that has been deposited across the | :52:14. | :52:18. | |
countryside, and some of it has been deposited in what awaits. Does she | :52:19. | :52:23. | |
feel that the charges would enable that letter to be taken away and | :52:24. | :52:26. | |
disposed of in a place that it should've been? If that is part of | :52:27. | :52:29. | |
the purpose, then it's got to be a step in the right direction. I'm | :52:30. | :52:33. | |
grateful to him for his intervention. What I notice when I'm | :52:34. | :52:39. | |
out on the waterways is that there are stretches where we do see a lot | :52:40. | :52:44. | |
of litter and often baby, but every user of our canals, be they on the | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
water or icy walking, has a responsibility and duty to play | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
their own part in collecting that letter as well as it being a | :52:53. | :53:01. | |
provision. Referring back to the Bill, what is particularly | :53:02. | :53:04. | |
interesting is that Commissioners currently have no navigation income, | :53:05. | :53:11. | |
and any navigation works must be subsidised by those who pay a | :53:12. | :53:17. | |
drainage level -- levy, in fact the largest navigation authority in the | :53:18. | :53:25. | |
country without a navigation income. I'm also that fact and almost about | :53:26. | :53:29. | |
to conclude. I will just continue. I am mindful of time. This Bill to | :53:30. | :53:35. | |
conclude, in my view, is needed because it will aid in the middle | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
level Commissioners to become, and this is crucial, a sustainable | :53:40. | :53:42. | |
navigation authority with the proper powers to manage a 21st-century | :53:43. | :53:47. | |
navigation, which I think is in the interests of those who use it and | :53:48. | :53:54. | |
those in the local area as well. May I begin by saying that this debate | :53:55. | :54:01. | |
would not have taken place if I had it as he blocked this Bill going | :54:02. | :54:04. | |
through on the second reading. We have already heard the benefits of | :54:05. | :54:10. | |
having a proper second reading debate on a Private Bill. Can I also | :54:11. | :54:19. | |
say that I think having spoken to some of the petitioners on the | :54:20. | :54:24. | |
telephone, that the promoters of this Bill have a serious | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
responsibility to actually engage with those people who take a | :54:29. | :54:34. | |
different view or have concerns about the contents of this Bill. I | :54:35. | :54:39. | |
was told by one of the petitioners that there had to be no contact | :54:40. | :54:45. | |
whatsoever with the authorities on this, and it is easy to see were, | :54:46. | :54:51. | |
when we get to this going to and proposed Bill committee, and I got | :54:52. | :54:56. | |
no objection to this having a second reading, I think it is important | :54:57. | :54:59. | |
that when it goes to the opposed Bill committee, that is after they | :55:00. | :55:07. | |
had been an exhaustive discussion between petitioners and the | :55:08. | :55:11. | |
promoters, rather than that being used as the forum for that | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
discussion, because the Private Bill procedure in committee is an | :55:16. | :55:19. | |
expensive and potentially adversarial one, and I would have | :55:20. | :55:23. | |
wished that they would be more discussion between the promoters and | :55:24. | :55:24. | |
the objectors. In my own speech, he gave the | :55:25. | :55:33. | |
example of the march cruising club, I am but, group advised they are | :55:34. | :55:39. | |
written and telephoned, but no reply was received. I would agree that | :55:40. | :55:48. | |
there needs to be further engagement and the formal session of the | :55:49. | :55:54. | |
committee. I'm glad he agrees. With the need for informal engagement | :55:55. | :56:00. | |
before it gets to the proposed Bill committee, because some of these | :56:01. | :56:06. | |
petitioners are not well funded but if there is a long period in private | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
Bill committee where they have to be represented by counsel, the costs | :56:12. | :56:18. | |
will be disproportionately high. The other point I'd make at this stage | :56:19. | :56:26. | |
is that there's recently been a very illuminating report from the | :56:27. | :56:33. | |
National Audit Office, published on 21st March, on internal drainage | :56:34. | :56:38. | |
boards. Basically, what we are talking about today is a whole | :56:39. | :56:43. | |
connection of drain. We are not talking the canals, we are talking | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
about drains. In that portable from the National Audit Office, -- report | :56:48. | :56:55. | |
from the National Audit Office, there is need for proper oversight | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
and assurance that these internal debt drainage boards are not going | :57:00. | :57:05. | |
to engage in conflicts of interest. Then I noticed that within the | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
middle level, there are 33 independent internal drainage | :57:10. | :57:15. | |
districts. And each is responsible for the local drainage of the area. | :57:16. | :57:23. | |
When we thought about giving more powers to the middle level | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
commissioners, I think we need to be very circumspect about what checks | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
and balances that are in relation to the exercise of those powers. I hope | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
that that is something that the committee will be able to | :57:39. | :57:43. | |
investigate when it meets to consider these proposals. And the | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
petition against them. I'm going to refer briefly to some of these | :57:50. | :57:58. | |
positions. One is from a man called Nigel Moore who calls himself a boat | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
owner and boat manager on various navigation, he's an adviser on | :58:03. | :58:08. | |
nationwide legal issues about boating, and a late advocate for | :58:09. | :58:14. | |
vote in High Court action, where issues rise over the allocation of | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
similar causes. He objects to be built because it entails a clear | :58:20. | :58:26. | |
abolition of private and public right to no justifiable purpose, and | :58:27. | :58:31. | |
will lead to unnecessary future litigation over the ambiguities. And | :58:32. | :58:39. | |
he refers, like other petitioners, to interpretation of the wide | :58:40. | :58:42. | |
interpretation of the expression waterways, which is being sought to | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
be included in the Bill, and if one looks at schedule one of the Bill, | :58:48. | :58:52. | |
one can see the waterways will extend to a lot of areas which are | :58:53. | :58:58. | |
not even navigable, and would also extend the commission's powers to | :58:59. | :59:03. | |
adjacent waters including private waters, which are not currently | :59:04. | :59:05. | |
within the commission's jurisdiction. This apparently, Mr | :59:06. | :59:14. | |
Moore says, has been a contentious point in relation to legislation. He | :59:15. | :59:25. | |
mentions rights being taken away, surely we are talking about some | :59:26. | :59:29. | |
responsibilities. A few extra charges, but what right did he have | :59:30. | :59:35. | |
in mind that will be removed. At the moment, people for example, who are | :59:36. | :59:40. | |
the owners of private waters, which are not subject to the middle level | :59:41. | :59:47. | |
commissioners, they will be as a result of this act, incorporated | :59:48. | :59:53. | |
within the responsibilities of the middle level commissioners, and the | :59:54. | :59:56. | |
middle level commissioners will be able to use the regulatory powers in | :59:57. | :00:02. | |
relation to what is currently private waters. That seems to me to | :00:03. | :00:09. | |
be an extension well beyond the Cole what one might have thought of as | :00:10. | :00:15. | |
the scope of this Bill. As my noble friend knows, as soon as people get | :00:16. | :00:19. | |
chance to legislate, they want to take more powers. Then they strictly | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
need. That is one of the concerns of the petition. I give way. Does he | :00:25. | :00:29. | |
agrees with me that there is a level of confusion as to the duties and | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
responsibilities of the authority, as enunciated in the Bill, as | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
between navigation and dredging? That needs to be clarified when the | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
Bill proceeds to committee, potentially. That again is a good | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
point. It is raised by several of the petition. Can take other | :00:48. | :00:56. | |
concerns expressed by Mr Moore, is that he objects to clause 83 -- 8.3, | :00:57. | :01:03. | |
because the wording of the clause follows the contentious wording of | :01:04. | :01:10. | |
the waterways that section eight, which has years of litigation to its | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
effects, and he would prefer a wording of similar clause of the | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
biomed agency inland waterways set 2012 section 16 because that allows | :01:20. | :01:25. | |
for no ambiguity and unwarranted extension of powers. He says the | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
wording, without lawful authority, import 8.3, is in applicable to | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
refer to boat on public navigable waters, won the right to the | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
waterways derived from the public right and the proposed provisions | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
for registration of boat does not change that. He says that that is | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
actually in line with the Environment Agency's submissions, | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
and the recent case on the Thames which he thinks was correct. As | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
worded, the proposed clause would not only be against the express | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
policy of the Environment Agency, but in his view it will be | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
ineffectual in law. Contrary to the exportation of the commissioners, | :02:04. | :02:10. | |
and in prejudice to voters. I hope those issues raised by Mr Moore, | :02:11. | :02:18. | |
will be. There is a petition from the March cruising club, which is | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
submitted by Mr Harwood, the club harbour master, apart from | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
complaining about the inadequate consultation, he raises a number of | :02:30. | :02:41. | |
issues. Following on, the history that has been given by a number in | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
this debate, he says that pleasure boats have had three, grow free | :02:46. | :02:53. | |
navigation to the old River. Which forms a large section of the river | :02:54. | :03:00. | |
level, from before 1215, protected by Magna Carta and subsequent | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
statutes and Royal commission. There are even Roman transcripts | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
describing navigation along the old River as early as the fourth century | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
during the Roman occupation. The river is natural and the public | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
right of navigation has existed since time immemorial, and was first | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
clarified in the Magna Carta of 1215. I'm not sure if he's aware of | :03:23. | :03:32. | |
the preamble of the navigation act 1753 which describes the ancient | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
navigation as being at all times extremely tedious, difficult and | :03:38. | :03:39. | |
dangerous, and very frequently altogether impracticable. My | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
honourable friend, I don't care what the pointers. He refers to a | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
preamble to a piece of legislation which of course is not an act of | :03:50. | :03:56. | |
Parliament. I'm not sure it really undermines any thing that I put. | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
Inciting what has been submitted by the March cruising club. I'm sure | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
that when the promoters engage properly with the March cruising | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
club, there will be able to explore the issue further. One of the other | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
points made by the cruising club, and contradicts an number of | :04:21. | :04:23. | |
assertions that have already been made in this debate, is that the | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
commissioners already have the power to charge boats for the use of the | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
waterways. What they don't have is the power to charge pleasure boats. | :04:31. | :04:38. | |
If a shortfall, as has been alleged, of 178,000 unfunded expenditure, | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
then there is nothing to stop the Commissioner starting to charge | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
vessels which are not pleasure boats or charging for other activities. | :04:48. | :04:55. | |
That would be consistent with the historical rights of pleasure boat | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
owners to use this navigation without charge. He goes on to say, | :05:00. | :05:13. | |
basically, that this is a network of navigable terrains. It is therefore | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
in a different category from some of the other comparators that have been | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
cited in support by the promoters of this Bill. They make a number of | :05:25. | :05:35. | |
other points in the submission. One of them is echoed by my honourable | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
friend, the Peterborough. Boat the Bill contains no obligations under | :05:41. | :05:49. | |
which the would-be duty-bound to provide water for dredging, | :05:50. | :05:51. | |
maintenance, or any facilities to vote, boaters. The legislation would | :05:52. | :06:01. | |
force the EU to register annual licensees, being a criminal offence | :06:02. | :06:10. | |
to... Must display a registration number, repeal a licence, so there | :06:11. | :06:19. | |
will be no advantage from boaters at in return and ultimately this will | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
destroy the middle level navigation as far as the boating community is | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
concerned. They have a number of other detailed points but I won't | :06:28. | :06:34. | |
fight them all, Madam Deputy Speaker. But unless these issues are | :06:35. | :06:42. | |
resolved amicably, between the commissioners and the promoters, | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
then this Bill is going to have a pretty slow passage through this | :06:49. | :06:56. | |
House. I'm sure that members of this House will not wish to impinge upon | :06:57. | :07:03. | |
the rights of individuals which are being enjoyed for many years. Unless | :07:04. | :07:10. | |
those are very strong -- there is a very strong justification for | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
impinging those rights. Another petition comes Mr John Hodges, who | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
describes himself as a member of the public, a homeowner with a mooring | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
on the banks of the middle level, and he says that the proposals will | :07:24. | :07:32. | |
directly and specially affect his rights and that's an indication of | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
another category of objector. There is also a petition against this from | :07:38. | :07:46. | |
somebody called Derek Pace. Mr Pace describes himself as living on a | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
narrow boat, which since it is not a commercial boat, most fits the | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
description of pleasure boat in the 1684 act. On the middle level. This | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
has been his home since 2011. He says it was only available and | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
affordable because after he watched lost his home of eight years when | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
his father died. He alleges the proposals will affect his rights and | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
interests, including allowing the commission of new powers to seize | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
his home and sell it on the less than it is valued. Effectively make | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
him homeless, destitute as an additional cost to the state. He | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
says the Bill contains no protection for the home, grow hundreds of | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
people who live on boats like him. That was the theme picked up by | :08:38. | :08:47. | |
Pamela Smith's cup from -- from the bhajis. They have have done boats | :08:48. | :08:58. | |
for many years. They don't have moorings but feel threatened by what | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
is the pros. She estimated that there may be as many as between | :09:04. | :09:10. | |
10000 and 25,000 people, not just in this area, but throughout the United | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
Kingdom, who are living on boats but not at a fixed mooring. This is a | :09:16. | :09:25. | |
sort of different sort of itinerant beauty, and Mrs Pamela Smith feels | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
the this particular group of people are going to be very much | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
discriminated against by what is proposed in March of this private | :09:36. | :09:46. | |
Bill. Those concerns are echoed by other petitioners. Another point | :09:47. | :09:55. | |
picked up here, Madam Deputy Speaker, is clause nine refers to | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
giving the commissioners more bylaws, but they already have | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
adequate by lawmaking powers under the middle level act of 1870, | :10:07. | :10:14. | |
Under clause nine examining two the get people's homes, which be | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
unnecessary invasion of personal space. They are statutory bodies, | :10:21. | :10:27. | |
including the police, and the 30 two into peoples homes, requiring voters | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
to surrender their right to privacy as a condition of being granted a | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
licence navigate, is an reasonable and intrusive. You can see, Madam | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
Deputy Speaker, that there are quite significant attempts in this Bill | :10:43. | :10:49. | |
imposed upon the rights of individuals, and I noticed when the | :10:50. | :10:56. | |
minister gave her certification in relation to whether or not this Bill | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
was compliant with the European Convention of human rights, that you | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
said was, she had no reason to suppose that the assertions made by | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
the promoters were incorrect. I'm not sure from that be can be | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
satisfied that the Government has yet explored these issues relating | :11:17. | :11:24. | |
to human rights for its own purposes, and to ensure that | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
actually the Government can assure as that, in the Government's own | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
view, not just relying on the promoters, that this Bill is fully | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
compliant with the law on human rights. Madam Deputy is bigger, my | :11:38. | :11:45. | |
honourable friend for Peterborough has already referred to the petition | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
from Christopher Taylor, his constituent. I would refer to that | :11:50. | :11:58. | |
again. I have already referred briefly to what Pamela Smith has | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
said on behalf of the National by the travellers association. But that | :12:03. | :12:12. | |
organisation has put in a major objection to much of what is | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
contained within this Bill. It has over 700 members, for local groups, | :12:19. | :12:27. | |
and represents the interests of the estimated 15,000 to 30,000 bhaji | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
travellers in the United Kingdom. A significant number of the | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
disassociation either live permanently on the middle levels or | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
use the waterways regularly, and therefore it is a matter of great | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
regret that there hasn't been any proper discussion with the | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
travellers on the very important issues which are contained within | :12:52. | :12:59. | |
this Bill, and I hope that that will be remedied much sooner rather than | :13:00. | :13:10. | |
later. They say also that many bhaji travellers use the middle levels as | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
a channel between the east Anglian waterways and the rest of the inland | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
waterways, and there is no other inland waterway route, and it would | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
be no choice but to be bound by the imposed terms and conditions and to | :13:26. | :13:33. | |
pay the proposed charges. Mr Deputy Speaker, I am not very familiar with | :13:34. | :13:41. | |
this part of the friends, and I'm not particularly, apart from having | :13:42. | :13:48. | |
visited other people who have got narrow boats, I am not familiar with | :13:49. | :13:55. | |
that type of recreational use of boozing. But I am familiar with the | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
sort of recreational use of browsing in my constituency in Christchurch, | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
and all I can say is that if my constituents when faced with some of | :14:07. | :14:12. | |
the new proposed regulations and powers to invade their privacy to -- | :14:13. | :14:20. | |
proposed in the middle level of the fans, then they would be outraged in | :14:21. | :14:29. | |
deed. And we have more on the river in Christchurch, a large number of | :14:30. | :14:32. | |
votes, and they do not all have names on them and certainly you | :14:33. | :14:39. | |
don't have two declare your name and address to some passing enforcement | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
officer, so it seems to me, Mr Deputy Speaker, that there is a lot | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
in this Bill which should be removed before it comes back for further | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
consideration at report stage, and I hope that a detailed discussion in | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
consideration and scrutiny of this in committee, that that will be the | :15:01. | :15:06. | |
consequence. We will then be able to look back on this and say, this has | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
been a worthwhile exercise because a not very good Bill has been much | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
improved as a result of proper scrutiny. So, Mr Deputy Speaker, I | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
am not going to speak at length again on this occasion, but I | :15:22. | :15:31. | |
reserve the right on behalf of the petitioners, and I know my | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
honourable friend for Peterborough is equally concerned about this, | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
that the rights of these petitioners are heard in this great home of | :15:39. | :15:51. | |
democracy. Thank you, Deputy Speaker,. I would certainly thank | :15:52. | :15:58. | |
the members for Peterborough, and for Christchurch for the detailed | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
scrutiny and consideration given to this Bill this afternoon. There are | :16:03. | :16:05. | |
certainly elements that we can take from this debate and deal with in | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
committee stage, and particular round some of the rights of powers | :16:10. | :16:12. | |
and engagement then is to be. Given we had such a thorough airing of | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
this Bill, all that remains for me to Bill is to move this Bill to be | :16:17. | :16:24. | |
met a second time. As many of that opinion the McAdoo. On the country, | :16:25. | :16:32. | |
say no. The ayes have it. The question is as on the paper, may on | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
that opinion the aye. Ali Carter, say no. The ayes have it. Rather | :16:38. | :16:48. | |
earlier than I feared, but I am delighted to be addressing the House | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
on the petition on school funding. I must declare an interest, as I sit | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
on the board of the Academy trust at Hillview School for girls, and | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
excellent local school, but one of many excellent local schools that | :17:03. | :17:06. | |
are all going to be straggling that are struggling with the new formula, | :17:07. | :17:09. | |
and I had been petitioned by 75 people on paper and a further few | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
hundred electronically, in order to present a petition to the House of | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
Commons which reads, the petition of residents of Tonbridge declares that | :17:21. | :17:23. | |
school in the area remain underfunded under both the current | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
and proposed funding plans. The petitioners therefore urge the House | :17:29. | :17:30. | |
of Commons denote the objections to the funding formula for schools in | :17:31. | :17:32. | |
Tonbridge. The petitioners remain. Petition, school funding in | :17:33. | :18:01. | |
Tonbridge and Marling. I beg to move this has to adjourn. - thank you, Mr | :18:02. | :18:09. | |
Deputy Speaker, and would like to use as a judgment of this evening to | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
the failure of Hyde Housing Association in my constituency to | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
honour its pledges and promises to the residents of it landed estates | :18:20. | :18:26. | |
and properties. Back in 1999, the tenants and residents of the central | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
stock will area voted for a stock transfer from the council to high | :18:32. | :18:38. | |
homes, part of the Hyde group. 2000 houses were transferred from Lambeth | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
Council and a few years later in 2005 these 650 homes in the | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
Kennington Park estate and the Bridge estate near the Oval followed | :18:48. | :18:53. | |
suit. Hyde Southbank homes were very proactive and very good landlords in | :18:54. | :18:59. | |
the first few years. Headed up then I be was legendary Charlie Adams, it | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
was a bottom-up organisation keen to stick to its commitments are | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
providing tenants with good quality, well managed and well maintained | :19:09. | :19:11. | |
homes at affordable rents in the future. Unfortunately on this sad | :19:12. | :19:17. | |
death of Charlie and the many changes that they made, the | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
management and maintenance went downhill, and residents began to see | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
their real difference. The official documentation of agreement between | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
the residents of Hyde Southbank homes constituted a legal document. | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
It stated, this contact with contain a legally binding document that Hyde | :19:39. | :19:41. | |
Southbank homes would keep all the promises made to you in this | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
document. When deciding about the future ownership of their homes, as | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
you would expect, given incident took there responsibly that Agnes | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
Bollettieri seriously and took the promises they were given very | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
seriously. Were assured legally and morally that they could rely on | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
legal protection, not just at the time of the transfer, but into the | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
future, and the promise doctrine also stated, any surplus money that | :20:11. | :20:13. | |
Hyde Southbank homes makes will remain within the Hyde Southbank | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
homes and will not be shared with any other part of the Hyde group. | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
Hyde explicitly promised that the existing community buildings would | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
be refurbished to provide facilities for all residents, non-Housing | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
services such as improved community facilities would be provided, and | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
they would be encouraging better and more regular use of local | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
facilities, such as the community centres. There are two committee | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
holds owned and managed by Hyde in my constituency, and now they are | :20:48. | :20:54. | |
both at risk in a complete reneging of Hyde Housing's promises to the | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
residents. Following a very unsatisfactory so-called | :21:00. | :21:06. | |
consultation between November and January 2017, Hyde decided to go | :21:07. | :21:09. | |
ahead and with their plans to privatise the community centre and | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
are looking for an organisation to take it on. They have now extended | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
the closing date for its best is of interest from suitable | :21:21. | :21:23. | |
organisations, because only three expressions of interest where | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
received, and because the interested organisations were relatively small, | :21:28. | :21:30. | |
but small town turnovers, and therefore not any strong enough | :21:31. | :21:33. | |
organisation financial position to take responsibility for the building | :21:34. | :21:40. | |
and its management. We also believe these organisations find the | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
conditions for taking the lease of the Centre soap restrictive that it | :21:45. | :21:46. | |
would be of no benefit our advantage to the organisation and we are very | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
concerned and the residents are concerned about the intention of | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
Hyde, honey setting conditions which no well-regarded not-for-profit | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
organisation can agree with Mike under these conditions, the centre | :22:02. | :22:04. | |
could not be made in nicely viable. The Kennington Park estate has been | :22:05. | :22:10. | |
earmarked for closure and demolition, to allow for the | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
building of new homes. We would say, great, new homes, but nearly all of | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
them are designed for sale private shared ownership. The consultation | :22:21. | :22:27. | |
on this for all of the residents of the estate who have a stake in the | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
future of it immediately centre has been very poor indeed. All members | :22:32. | :22:37. | |
of the households on Kennington Park estate past and present or potential | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
futures users of the centre are entitled to be asked what they | :22:45. | :22:51. | |
think. This did not happen. Hyde seemed to think that it was the | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
TRA's responsibility to carry out consultation, but the consultation | :22:57. | :22:59. | |
should have been much wider than just the very immediate past decided | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
the committee the centre, because that centre is used by many people | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
from all around the area. It was a very shoddy consultation, they put | :23:11. | :23:20. | |
out some questions and answers to residents, saying that they owned | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
and managed the media centres, the cost of them was becoming too much | :23:26. | :23:32. | |
for them, and that they therefore try to take advantage of the | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
Government 's 1% reduction for social housing means that they have | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
to make savings. The minister may be surprised to know that despite | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
residents' not liking this 1% rate reduction for social housing, they | :23:48. | :23:57. | |
actually blaming this -- appreciating this at all. It is | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
completely inaccurate to say that Hyde subsidises the running cost, | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
because its income from the tenets' rents to contribute to the | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
maintenance of services such as community centres. It also said | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
that, as a housing provider, the need to make efficient use of their | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
income to prioritise building more homes to help address the housing | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
crisis. This means they have to make difficult choices about what | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
additional services they continue to fund and what they stop. The | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
residents strongly feel that any responsible landlord is required to | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
prioritise delivery of an acceptable standard of landlord services to its | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
existing tenants first. It is a real matter of concern and disappointment | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
to the residents, local councils and myself that Hyde only too clearly | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
puts the funding of new build above its duty and responsibility to | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
deliver to an acceptable standard the full rate of landlord services | :24:56. | :25:02. | |
as required by law. What has happened is that as it will find out | :25:03. | :25:10. | |
about this, it is very clear that the committee is against this. Hyde | :25:11. | :25:18. | |
asserts as I mentioned that they cannot afford to run the Kennington | :25:19. | :25:25. | |
Park Centre D1 stock well. Yet Hyde Housing their current shows a | :25:26. | :25:31. | |
surplus by 2015 and 2016 of over ?2 million and revenue reserves of over | :25:32. | :25:39. | |
?46 million. Member what I mentioned at the beginning, commitments made | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
when it transfers took place, any surplus money that they make would | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
remain in HS age, and would not be shared with any other part of Hyde. | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
That was the promise. In other words, the surface and reserves | :25:54. | :25:56. | |
should be first being reinvested in HS age and should not be just | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
getting up to the high group for building of new housing. At the same | :26:01. | :26:08. | |
time, they should not be replacing the community centre already there. | :26:09. | :26:14. | |
Hyde's argument is that it needs to prioritise building homes, and for | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
all others that is a priority and we know that more than anyone. This is | :26:19. | :26:31. | |
not the same as the revenue generated from the rents. The | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
Kennedy and Parker says residents Association that the revenue | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
generated from the rents does cover the bridge was provided to keep the | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
centre open and running, given that that is less than 2% of HS age's | :26:44. | :26:50. | |
2015, 2016 surplus. Which incidentally was linked to a time | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
when the community centre was closed very often when income was at its | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
potential lowest level due to hide's indecision and incompetence and bad | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
management. There is just real shock that Hyde, after what they promised, | :27:06. | :27:12. | |
and in the early stages of how well they did work with local residents, | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
have now decided to go down this route. Hyde Housing is failing in so | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
many fronts, not just the community centres, from service charges, has | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
one leaders said they are in chaos, the day-to-day maintenance, parking | :27:30. | :27:31. | |
charges, putting new housing in totally inadequate space, and one | :27:32. | :27:37. | |
example that my constituency has given me the quote from his letter, | :27:38. | :27:44. | |
is over service charges. It is typical of the way Hyde work, | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
completely non-transparent. Service charges for this coming year are | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
based on estimates from so-called actual costs, but one which have | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
never had so been sent to the residents. They have been sent out | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
service charges for this year without having any real proof of how | :28:02. | :28:04. | |
the service charges for last year where spent. -- where spent. This | :28:05. | :28:11. | |
President has a long-standing discussions with Hyde, said Timmy | :28:12. | :28:18. | |
that he requested that the account and receipt for the 2013, 2014 | :28:19. | :28:26. | |
period and this took over a year to finally arrive in October 2015 | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
before they were able to re-examine it. To this day, we still have | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
issues with those that remain unresolved by Hyde. The 2014, 2015 | :28:35. | :28:44. | |
accounts, this took Hyde well over six Munster finally provide. After | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
going through those, there were numerous issues which are incorrect | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
and lots of invoices which were not there and not been identified by | :28:55. | :29:01. | |
Hyde. After a number of exchanges, and he dealt with 17 different | :29:02. | :29:08. | |
people in Hyde, they finally got a comprehensive spreadsheet detailing | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
many issues referenced to the invoicing scheme? | :29:13. | :29:23. |