29/03/2017 House of Commons


29/03/2017

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most recently on the attack last Wednesday. We should not forget that

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day in day out emergency services work on our behalf and often put

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themselves in danger as a result. I have kept in touch as has my right

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honourable friend the Home Secretary with the security services and

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Metropolitan Police on the investigation taking place into the

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attack last week and I am looking forward to security arrangements and

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I can assure him they have the resources they need to carry out

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vital work. Of course we all pay tribute to the police for the work

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they do but there are some problems that between 2015 and 2018 there

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will be a real terms cut in central government funding to police forces

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of 330 million. Can the Prime Minister assure the house the police

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all over the country have the necessary resources to do the job? I

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would remind him that what we have done is protected that police budget

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and of course the former Shadow Home Secretary, his colleague, the right

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honourable member, prior to the... At the Labour Party conference said

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savings can be found. The police say 5-10% is just about doable. We have

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protected the police budget. I have been speaking to police forces and

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they are cleared the work they are doing has the resources they need.

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The Police Federation survey recently undertaken reveals that 55%

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of serving police officers say morale is low due to the way in

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which funding has been treated. Front line policing is vital in

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tackling crime and terrorism. Since 2010, there are 20,000 fewer police

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officers, 12,000 fewer on the front line. I asked the Prime Minister

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again, will she think again about the cuts and guaranteed policing on

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the front line will be protected so every community can be assured it

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has the officers it needs in their community? I said we have protected

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those police budgets including of course the precepts they raise

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locally. Let's think about what has happened since 2010. Since 2010 we

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have seen crime is traditionally measured by the independent crime

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survey falling by a third to a record low, and that is the work of

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hard-working officers up and down this country. They have been backed

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by this government. We have made them more accountable through

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directly elected Police and Crime Commissioners and there has been

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reform, including reform of the Police Federation that was

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necessary, but we have ensured police have resources to do their

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job and we see crime at a record low. The Royal air forces preparing

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to fly typhoons from my constituency to Romania, to support Nato allies

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on the border with Russia. This is as President Putin is locking up

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political opponents and crushing calls for democracy. Will my right

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honourable friend confirm that as we leave the EU, the United Kingdom

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will continue to lead Nato in defending this vital border, and

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will she paid tribute to the Armed Forces who safeguard our democracy

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at home and abroad? I am very happy to join my honourable friend in

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paying tribute to the men and women of our Armed Forces, they are the

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best in the world and they worked tirelessly to keep us safe and we

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open every gratitude. Our commitment to collective defence and security

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through Nato is as strong as ever. We will meet our pledge to spend 2%

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of GDP wand expense every year of the decade and we plan to spend 178

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billion on equipment. She referred to work done by the Royal Air Force

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in relation to Romania. With Nato we deploy a battalion to Estonia and

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squadron to Poland and I think that shows our commitment to our

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collective security and defence. We associate ourselves with the

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condolences of the Prime Minister and leader of the Labour Party and

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praise for the emergency and security services. After the

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appalling terrorist atrocity. Last year, the Prime Minister promised

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before she would trigger Article 50 on leaving the EU, she would secure

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a UK wide approach and agreement... Last year the Prime Minister did

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make that promise and promised there would be agreement with the

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governments of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland before triggering

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Article 50. The Prime Minister has now triggered Article 50 and she has

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done so without an agreement. There is no agreement. Why has she broken

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her promise and her word? I have been clear throughout and since the

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first visit that I made as Prime Minister to Edinburgh last July,

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which was we would work with the devolved administrations and develop

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a UK wide approach but in negotiations it would be a UK

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approach taken into the negotiations and it would be the United Kingdom

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government that took forward that position and I would remind him that

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Scotland is part of the United Kingdom. People will note the Prime

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Minister did not deny she would seek a UK wide approach and agreement

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with the governments of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and there

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is no agreement. The Scottish Government was elected with a higher

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percentage of the vote with a bigger electoral mandate than the UK

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Government. Yesterday the Scottish Parliament voted by 69 to 59 that

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people in Scotland should have a choice about their future. After the

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negotiations with the EU are concluded, there will be a period

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for democratic approval of the outcome. That choice will be

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exercised in this Parliament, in the European Parliament, and in 27

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member states of the EU. Given that everybody else will have a choice...

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Will the people of Scotland have a choice... ? I say to the right

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honourable gentleman that we are taking forward the views of the

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United Kingdom into the negotiations with the European Union on the

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United Kingdom exiting the European Union. The Scottish Nationalist

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party consistently talks... Order! This is unseemly heckling. You are a

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distinguished QC. You would not behave like that in the Scottish

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courts. You would be chucked out. Prime Minister. The SNP consistently

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talks about independence as the only subject they wish to talk about. I

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said to him and his colleagues that now is not the time to be talking

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about a second independence referendum. On today of all days, we

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should be coming together as a United Kingdom to get the best deal

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for Britain. Improving vocational and technical

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education is vital to closing our productivity gap so can the Prime

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Minister assure me vocational education will enjoy equal status

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with academic education so that as we leave the EU, our young people

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can be equipped to build the high skilled economy of the future? My

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honourable friend has raised an important issue. It is essential for

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young people we give vocational and technical education the right esteem

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and focus because it is essential in addressing the productivity gap. We

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want to deliver a world leading technical education system to create

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genuine options that are equal in esteem, two options for young people

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in esteem. In the budget, the Chancellor announced a significant

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package of investment to represent the most ambitious post-16 reform

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since the introduction of A-levels. We will invest an extra half ?1

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billion in Ingham's technical education and introduce maintenance

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loans or those studying high-level technical qualifications at

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institutes of technology. The Treasury Select Committee says that

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having to fill in a tax return every three months means that many smaller

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companies face disaster. The Federation of small business says

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the extra cost is likely to be annually ?2700 a year. This is

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another burden on business from this government. She got it wrong on

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national Insurance, is she going to backtrack now on tax returns, as

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well? Perhaps the honourable gentleman

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should have listened to the announcement the Chancellor made in

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the budget where he indicated he would be delaying the introduction

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of this for the smallest businesses below the VAT threshold for a year.

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But I think it is right that HMRC does try to move to a greater

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digitisation of the way in which it operates. I think that will enable

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it to give a better service to those people who are completing their

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forms, and we should always remember that aspect of what is being

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proposed. I welcome the additional money the Government has given for

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adult social care, but it is important we also look at long-term

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solutions for the. Will the Prime Minister look at issues with how the

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system works with Northampton county council and Northampton General

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Hospital? I say to my honourable friend but I'm grateful that he is

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welcome for the extra money, the ?2 billion going to social care and out

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by the Chancellor. This shows we have recognised the pressures and

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demands on social care, but it is also important that we ensure best

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practice is delivered across the whole of the country, it isn't just

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about money, so we are trying to find a long-term sustainable

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solution which will help local authorities to learn from each other

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and raise standards across the system, and we will bring forward

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proposals in a green paper later this year to put the state funded

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system on a more sustainable and long-term footing. As Home

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Secretary, the Prime Minister clearly didn't protect police

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budgets. Last week she told me four times, we have protected the schools

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budget. Does she still stand by that statement? We have protected schools

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budgets, and we are putting record funding into schools. Today, Mr

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Speaker, the Public Accounts Committee says the Department of

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Education that it does not seem to understand the pressures that

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schools are already under. And they went on to say that funding per

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pupil is reducing in real terms, and goes on to say schools budgets will

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be cut by ?3 billion, equivalent to 8%, by 2020. Is the Public Accounts

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Committee wrong on this? What we see over the course of this Parliament

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is ?230 billion going into our schools. But what matters is the

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quality of education that we see in our schools. 1.8 million more

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children in good or outstanding schools, and a policy from this

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Government to ensure that every child gets a good school plays. Mr

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Speaker, the daily experience of many parents who have children in

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schools is that they get letters from the schools asking for money.

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One parent, Elizabeth, wrote to me to say she has received a letter

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from her daughter's school asking for a monthly donation to top up the

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reduced funds that her school is receiving. This Government's cuts to

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schools are betraying a generation of our children. If the Prime

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Minister is right, then the parents are wrong, the teachers are wrong,

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the IFF is wrong, the National Audit Office is wrong, the education

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policy Institute is wrong and now the Public Accounts Committee, which

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includes eight Conservative members in it, is also wrong. So which

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organisation does back the Prime Minister's view on education

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spending in our schools? I would say to the right honourable gentleman

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that as I have just said to him, we said we would protect school

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funding, and we have. A real terms protection for the schools budget.

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We said we would protect the money following children into schools, and

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we have, it reaches ?42 billion as pupil numbers rise in 19/ 20. But it

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is also about the quality of education children are receiving.

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1.8 million more children in good or outstanding schools than under the

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Labour government. But I also say this, because time and time again,

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the gentleman stands up in PMQs and asks questions which would lead to

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more spending. Let's look at what he has done recently. On the 11th of

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January, more spending. On the 8th of February, more spending. On the

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22nd of February, more spending. On the first and the 8th of March, more

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spending. On the 15th and 22nd of March, more spending. Barely a PMQs

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goes by that he doesn't call for more public spending. When it comes

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to spending money that they haven't got, Labour simply can't help

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themselves. It's the same old Labour, spend today and give

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somebody else the Bill tomorrow. Well, we won't do that to the next

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generation. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I'm sure

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everyone in the House will want to join me in paying tribute to the

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thousands who worked in munitions factories in both world wars. Often

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in very dangerous conditions. And they produced a vital equipment for

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the Armed Forces that helped us to victory. I'm sure my honourable

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friend will recognise that for practical reasons it is not possible

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to pursue individual awards, but I know that the Department for

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Business would be happy to work with him to look at further ways to

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recognise the collective effort of former munitions workers. I thank my

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right honourable friend for that answer. These ladies found that the

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chemicals in the shells turned their skins yellow, and they were

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nicknamed canary girls. I know my right honourable friend is

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exceptionally busy at the moment, but could she find just a few

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moments in her diary to meet me and some of these canary girls to

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recognise their service? I would be very happy to do that. I would be

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very happy to meet some canary girls. As I said, they did work

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which was vital to the war effort. They did work which in one sense was

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absolutely routine, but in another sense was extremely dangerous, and I

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think we should recognise the efforts that they put in. Thank you,

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Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister will be aware that the Welsh Labour

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government has established a children's funeral fund. Many

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leading funeral providers have also indicated that there will be no

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charges for children and young people's funerals. I know the Prime

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Minister is a compassionate woman, and I know she understands the

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importance of a children's funeral fund. Will she agree to work with me

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to establish this fund to bring some comfort to bereaved parents in their

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darkest hour? I pay tribute to the honourable lady who has been

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campaigning tirelessly on this issue, and obviously it is not just

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a passionate campaign, but she has spoken on many occasions moving in

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this House about her personal experience which she has brought to

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bear on this issue. I welcome the decision taken by the co-operative

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funeral company to waive the fees on this. There is some financial

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support available, we are looking at this issue on the problems faced by

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parents, and at what more can be done through a cross government

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piece of work, and I ask the Minister for the Cabinet office who

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is meeting on that piece of work to meet with us and talk about the

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idea. As the Prime Minister will know, the budget gave an extra ?200

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million to the Welsh Labour government in order to provide

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business rate relief. Will the Prime Minister agree with myself and the

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leader of Monmouthshire council that Welsh Labour must now commit to

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spending that money on supporting Welsh businesses and giving the same

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level of support that has been provided in England by this

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conservative Government? I say to my honourable friend he is absolutely

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right. As he said at the budget, my right honourable friend the

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Chancellor announced a ?200 million boost to the Welsh budget. They will

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be able to use that money to support their own priorities, but the people

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of Wales can send a clear signal about these priorities by voting for

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Conservative councillors like Peter Fox on the 4th of May. And I have to

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say it is the UK Government actions to support working families

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throughout the country that will make sure Wales benefits. The

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Foreign Secretary jury be EU referendum campaign urged people to,

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and I quote, take back control of huge sums of money, ?350 million per

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week, and spend it on our priorities such as the NHS. The Prime Minister

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will trigger article 50 today. Can the Prime Minister confirm precisely

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when she wants to fulfil the promise made by her Cabinet colleagues who

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is sitting on the front page smirking at the British public?

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Order, order, Boris is sitting perfectly comfortably, there is an

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air of repose about the fellow! Prime Minister.

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I am very happy to tell the honourable lady that when this

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country leaves the European Union, we will have control of our budget

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and we will decide how that money is spent. With modification, schools in

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my constituency welcome the National funding formula, and given the

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Leader of the Opposition's intervention, I hope my next

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question doesn't land me on the naughty step, but given that

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Stockport schools and other schools have been at the bottom of the

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funding pile for years, and have less scope for efficiencies, would

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my right honourable friend consider giving immediate support to them? As

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my honourable friend is saying, what we are doing is aiming to end the

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postcode lottery of schools funding, and schools funding is at a record

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high. In relation to the minimum funding level, as I have said

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before, the DFE have heard representations on the issue on this

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national funding formula and will be considering those. There have been a

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lot of responses to that, but it is a historic and complex reform but

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there has been general agreement for many years that reform is needed, we

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want to get this right which is why we are carefully considering it.

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After nine months of this Prime Minister's approach to Brexit,

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Northern Ireland is deadlocked, the Welsh are alienated, Scotland is

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going for a referendum, the English are split down the middle and Brexit

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MPs are walking out of Commons committees because they don't like

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home truths. Has the Prime Minister considered in terms of invoking

:21:41.:21:42.

Article 50 that now is not the time? What the UK Government is doing in

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invoking article 50 is putting into practice the Democratic vote of the

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British people on the 23rd of June last year in a referendum. There was

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a referendum in 2014 in Scotland when the Scottish people voted to

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remain part of the United Kingdom. I suggest The right honourable

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gentleman and his colleagues put that into practice! Mr Speaker,

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three quarters of my constituent Umag voted to leave the European

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Union. Does the Prime Minister agree with me that as she triggers article

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50, it marks a watershed moment, not only for this country's control of

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immigration and our sovereignty, but also for listening to the views of

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people who were forgotten for far too long? I absolutely agree with my

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honourable friend. Not only are we putting into place the views of the

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British people as set out in that referendum on the 23rd of June last

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year, but crucially that was not just a vote about leaving the EU. It

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was a vote about changing this country for the future, and this

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Government has a clear plan for Britain that will change this

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country, that will see us with a more global outlook, a stronger

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economy, a fairer society and a more united nation. The people expect the

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Prime Minister to follow her party's manifesto and abide by a majority

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vote of this Parliament. So why does she say that the First Minister of

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Scotland should do the opposite? What I say is that at this point in

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time Dodge at this point in time as we face this historic moment of

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facing Article 50 and this country's relationship with the European

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Union, now is the time for us to pull together and not, part. On

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Friday, thousands of people will be up and down this country raising

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funds and awareness of brain tumour research. Many of these people will

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know people someone who have suffered from a brain tumour. It is

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a bigger cancer killer of children and adults under 40. Will the Prime

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Minister join me in commending all these people raising awareness and

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funds and see what more we can do to raise funding for brain tumour

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research? This is an important area, and I believe in this area the UK

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does have a good record of research on brain tumours, and that is

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important, but he is absolutely right. The people who are raising

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funds for this important cause should be commended, as he says many

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of them will have had personal experience in one way or another of

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brain tumours, and I think it is important that we recognise that

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there are many killers out there which don't often receive the

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publicity and support of others, and we should recognise their

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importance, and commend those who are raising funds.

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Can the Prime Minister said what she is doing to ensure national and

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local government prioritise the purchasing and buying of British

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goods and services, although the Home Secretary on police vehicles,

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does not give us cause for optimism. We have been encouraging the

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procurement of British goods and services. He asked what we can do

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for local authorities, if people want local authorities to take their

:25:50.:25:55.

best interests to heart, they should vote Conservative. Can I ask... I

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congratulate the Prime Minister and invoking Article 50. Does she agree

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this needs to be the end of the phoney war and posturing and focus

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now on the detail for every industry, centre and community to

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get a bespoke deal we can all get behind? I agree with my honourable

:26:17.:26:24.

friend. Now is the time to come together and be united across this

:26:25.:26:28.

House and country to ensure we work for the best deal for the United

:26:29.:26:36.

Kingdom and best future for us all. The Prime Minister has rightly

:26:37.:26:40.

emphasised her determination to deliver for all constituent parts of

:26:41.:26:44.

the United Kingdom on this historic day and while others are content to

:26:45.:26:48.

moan, we want to see that delivery happen and we are confident she will

:26:49.:26:53.

make that happen. In Northern Ireland, where some have walked away

:26:54.:26:58.

from responsibilities in terms of devolution, we want devolution up

:26:59.:27:02.

and running to have a functioning government and we have set no

:27:03.:27:07.

preconditions. If others continue to stay away from devolution and walk

:27:08.:27:12.

away, will she pledged to work more closely with those of us in this

:27:13.:27:15.

House to defend and protect the interests of Northern Ireland? We

:27:16.:27:21.

say that we all want to work together to ensure we can protect

:27:22.:27:25.

the best interests of Northern Ireland. I think that ensuring we

:27:26.:27:30.

have strong devolved government in Northern Ireland is important for

:27:31.:27:34.

the future and so we can build on the significant progress made in

:27:35.:27:38.

recent years for the people of Northern Ireland and I urge all

:27:39.:27:42.

parties to come to the talks with a view to finding a way through so

:27:43.:27:47.

that Northern Ireland once again can be restored to devolved government.

:27:48.:27:52.

With the Prime Minister agree social media companies need to take action

:27:53.:27:58.

to remove extremist and hate material from platforms and to foot

:27:59.:28:01.

the Bill for the police who are currently doing their dirty work at

:28:02.:28:08.

the taxpayers' expense? This question of working with the

:28:09.:28:12.

companies to ensure extremist material is removed as quickly as

:28:13.:28:16.

possible is one that is not new. Through the counterterrorism

:28:17.:28:21.

internet referral unit we have the process to enable the police to take

:28:22.:28:27.

material down. 250,000 pieces of material have been taken down since

:28:28.:28:32.

2010 and there has been increase in that activity in the last couple of

:28:33.:28:37.

years. I know the Home Secretary will be meeting companies this week

:28:38.:28:41.

to talk to them about this important issue. We do not want extremist

:28:42.:28:47.

material on the internet, what we want to see is companies taking

:28:48.:28:50.

action to remove material encouraging hate and division. Late

:28:51.:28:58.

on Saturday night, a massive explosion devastated new ferry in my

:28:59.:29:03.

constituency. We are thinking of those who were hurt. It is a miracle

:29:04.:29:08.

more people were not injured. The community faces dereliction. All the

:29:09.:29:13.

Prime Minister join with me in thanking all of those who looked

:29:14.:29:17.

after my community over the weekend and recent days, and will she

:29:18.:29:21.

arrange a meeting with the Secretary of State who can discuss how the

:29:22.:29:27.

government can help us to rebuild New Ferry. I am happy to do those

:29:28.:29:33.

things. I commend and thank all of those who worked hard in the

:29:34.:29:39.

emergency services and others to support her community when this

:29:40.:29:44.

devastating explosion took place. That work will continue. There will

:29:45.:29:48.

be support I am sure being given to the community in the future and I am

:29:49.:29:53.

happy to ask the Secretary of State to meet her and discuss how that

:29:54.:29:58.

community can be rebuilt and overcome the impact of this

:29:59.:30:06.

explosion. Order. Statement, the Prime Minister.

:30:07.:30:20.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. Today, the government acts on the democratic

:30:21.:30:25.

will of the British people. It acts on the clear and convincing position

:30:26.:30:32.

of this House. A few minutes ago in Brussels, the United Kingdom's

:30:33.:30:36.

permanent representative to the EU handed a letter to the president of

:30:37.:30:42.

the European Council on my behalf, confirming the government decision

:30:43.:30:47.

to invoke Article 50. The Article 50 process is now under way and in

:30:48.:30:51.

accordance with the wishes of the British people the United Kingdom is

:30:52.:30:58.

leaving the European Union. This is an historic moment from which there

:30:59.:31:04.

can be no turning back. Britain is leaving the European Union. We are

:31:05.:31:08.

going to make our own decisions and laws. We are going to take control

:31:09.:31:14.

of things that matter most to us and we are going to take this

:31:15.:31:18.

opportunity to build a stronger, fairer Britain, a country our

:31:19.:31:21.

children and grandchildren are proud to call home. That is our ambition

:31:22.:31:28.

and our opportunity. That is what this government is determined to do.

:31:29.:31:35.

Mr Speaker, at moments like these, great turning points in our national

:31:36.:31:39.

story, the choices we make to find the character of our nation. We can

:31:40.:31:45.

choose to save the task ahead is too great, we can choose to turn our

:31:46.:31:49.

face to the past and believe it cannot be done, or we can look

:31:50.:31:53.

forward with optimism and hope and to believe in the power of the

:31:54.:32:00.

British spirit. I choose to believe in Britain and that our best days

:32:01.:32:09.

lie ahead. I do so because I am confident we have vision and plan to

:32:10.:32:14.

use this moment to build a better Britain. For leaving the EU presents

:32:15.:32:20.

us with a unique opportunity. It is this generation's chance to shape a

:32:21.:32:25.

brighter future, a chance to step back and ask ourselves what kind of

:32:26.:32:29.

country we want to be. My answer is clear. I want the United Kingdom to

:32:30.:32:37.

emerge from this period of change stronger, fairer, more united and

:32:38.:32:41.

more outward looking than ever before. I want us to be a secure,

:32:42.:32:47.

prosperous, tolerant country, a magnet for international talent and

:32:48.:32:50.

are home to the pioneers and innovators who will shape the world

:32:51.:32:55.

ahead. I want us to be a truly global Britain. The best friend and

:32:56.:33:02.

neighbour to our European partners, a country that reaches beyond the

:33:03.:33:09.

borders of Europe. Can I apologise for interrupting. Mr Boswell, calm

:33:10.:33:13.

yourself, you have to learn to behave in a statement --

:33:14.:33:24.

statesman-like fashion. I want all colleagues the chance to question

:33:25.:33:30.

the Prime Minister. This is an important statement and it is

:33:31.:33:33.

reasonable to expect the Prime Minister gets a courteous hearing.

:33:34.:33:43.

Mr Speaker, I want us to be a truly global Britain, the best friend and

:33:44.:33:48.

neighbour to our European partners that a country that reaches beyond

:33:49.:33:51.

the borders of Europe, a country that goes into the world to build

:33:52.:33:56.

relationships with new friends and allies alike. That is why I have set

:33:57.:34:02.

out a clear and ambitious plan for the negotiations ahead, a plan for a

:34:03.:34:07.

deep and special partnership between Britain and the European Union, of

:34:08.:34:11.

values, a partnership of interests, a partnership based on cooperation

:34:12.:34:16.

in areas such as security and economic affairs, and a partnership

:34:17.:34:20.

that works in the best interests of the United Kingdom, European Union

:34:21.:34:26.

and wider world. Perhaps now more than ever the world needs the

:34:27.:34:34.

liberal democratic values of Europe. Values... Perhaps...

:34:35.:34:55.

Perhaps now more than ever the world needs the liberal democratic values

:34:56.:35:05.

of Europe, values the United Kingdom shares and that is why while we are

:35:06.:35:10.

leaving the institutions of the European Union, we are not leaving

:35:11.:35:15.

Europe, we will remain a close friend and ally, we would be a

:35:16.:35:18.

committed partner and play our part to ensure Europe is able to protect

:35:19.:35:24.

its values and defend itself from security threats and we will do all

:35:25.:35:29.

we can to help the European Union prosper and succeed. In a letter

:35:30.:35:33.

delivered to resident Donald Tusk today, copies of which I have placed

:35:34.:35:37.

in the library, I have been cleared the deep and special partnership we

:35:38.:35:42.

seek is in the best interests of the United Kingdom and European Union. I

:35:43.:35:46.

have been clear we will work constructively in a spirit of

:35:47.:35:50.

sincere cooperation to bring this partnership into being. I have been

:35:51.:35:55.

clear we should seek to agree the terms of this future partnership

:35:56.:35:59.

alongside those of our withdrawal within the next two years. I am

:36:00.:36:04.

ambitious for Britain and the objectives set out for these

:36:05.:36:09.

negotiations remain. We will deliver certainty wherever possible so that

:36:10.:36:13.

business, the public sector and everybody has as much clarity as we

:36:14.:36:19.

can provide. Tomorrow we will publish a White Paper confirming our

:36:20.:36:25.

plans to convert it into British law so that everyone knows where they

:36:26.:36:29.

stand. It is why I have been clear the government will put the final

:36:30.:36:34.

deal agreed to a vote in both houses of parliament before it comes into

:36:35.:36:38.

force. We will take control of our laws and bring an end to the

:36:39.:36:41.

jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in Britain. Leaving the

:36:42.:36:46.

European Union will mean our laws will be made in Westminster,

:36:47.:36:51.

Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast, and those laws will be interpreted by

:36:52.:36:56.

judges not in Luxembourg, but in courts across this country. We will

:36:57.:37:02.

strengthen the union of the four nations that comprise our United

:37:03.:37:10.

Kingdom. We will negotiate as one United Kingdom, taking account of

:37:11.:37:14.

the specific interests of every nation and region of the UK and when

:37:15.:37:19.

it comes to the powers we take back from Europe, we will consult on

:37:20.:37:23.

which powers should reside in Westminster and which should be

:37:24.:37:27.

passed on to the devolved administrations. No decision

:37:28.:37:31.

currently taken by the devolved administrations will be removed from

:37:32.:37:36.

them and it is the expectation of the government the devolved

:37:37.:37:38.

administrations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland will see a sick

:37:39.:37:42.

that could increase in decision-making power as a result of

:37:43.:37:47.

this process. We want to maintain the common travel area with the

:37:48.:37:51.

Republic of Ireland, there shall be no return to the borders of the

:37:52.:37:56.

past. We will control immigration so we continue to attract the brightest

:37:57.:38:00.

and best to work and study in Britain, but manage the process so

:38:01.:38:05.

that our immigration system serves the national interest. We seek to

:38:06.:38:09.

guarantee the rights of EU citizens living in Britain and the rights of

:38:10.:38:13.

British nationals in member states as early as we can. That is set out

:38:14.:38:19.

clearly in the letter as an early priority for the talks ahead. We

:38:20.:38:25.

will ensure workers' rights are protected and maintained and under

:38:26.:38:29.

my leadership not only with the government protect the rights of

:38:30.:38:33.

workers, but we will build on them. We will pursue an ambitious free

:38:34.:38:37.

trade agreement with the European Union that allows for the freest

:38:38.:38:42.

trading goods and services between Britain and the EU member states.

:38:43.:38:45.

That gives British companies the maximum freedom to trade with and

:38:46.:38:50.

operate within European markets and let European businesses do the same

:38:51.:38:54.

in Britain, because European leaders have said many times we cannot

:38:55.:38:59.

cherry pick and remain members of the single market without accepting

:39:00.:39:04.

the four freedoms that are indivisible. We respect that

:39:05.:39:08.

position and as accepting those freedoms is incompatible with the

:39:09.:39:12.

expressed will of the British people, we will no longer be members

:39:13.:39:18.

of the single market. We will make sure that we can strike trade

:39:19.:39:22.

agreements with countries from outside the European Union. Because

:39:23.:39:26.

important though trade with the EU is and will remain, it is clear the

:39:27.:39:31.

UK needs to increase significantly its trade with the fastest-growing

:39:32.:39:36.

export markets in the world. We hope to continue to collaborate with

:39:37.:39:41.

European partners in science, education, research and technology,

:39:42.:39:46.

said the UK is one of the best places for science and innovation

:39:47.:39:50.

and we seek cooperation with our European partners in important areas

:39:51.:40:00.

such as crime, terrorism and foreign affairs and it is our aim to deliver

:40:01.:40:02.

a smoother quarterly Brexit, reaching agreement about future

:40:03.:40:05.

partnership by the time the Article 50 process has concluded and moving

:40:06.:40:10.

into a process of implementation in which Britain, EU institutions and

:40:11.:40:14.

member states prepare for the new arrangements that will exist between

:40:15.:40:19.

us. We understand that there will be consequences for the UK of leaving

:40:20.:40:23.

the EU. We know we will lose influence...

:40:24.:40:27.

We know that we will lose influence over the rules that affect the

:40:28.:40:33.

European economy. We know that UK companies that trade with the EU

:40:34.:40:37.

will have to align with rules agreed by institutions of which we are no

:40:38.:40:42.

longer part. Just as we do in other overseas markets. And we accept

:40:43.:40:47.

that. However, we approach these talks constructively, respectfully

:40:48.:40:52.

and in a spirit of Cisse Corporation, for it is in the

:40:53.:40:55.

interest of both the UK and the European Union that we use this

:40:56.:41:00.

process to deliver our objectives in a fair and orderly manner. Is it is

:41:01.:41:04.

in the interests of both the United Kingdom and the European Union that

:41:05.:41:06.

there should be as little disruption as possible, and it is in the

:41:07.:41:11.

interests of both the United Kingdom and the European Union that Europe

:41:12.:41:15.

should remain strong, prosperous and capable of projecting its values in

:41:16.:41:20.

the world. At a time when the growth of global trade is slowing and there

:41:21.:41:23.

are signs the protectionist instincts are on the rise in many

:41:24.:41:29.

parts of the world, Europe has a responsibility to stand up for free

:41:30.:41:33.

trade in interest of all our citizens. With Europe's security

:41:34.:41:38.

more fragile today than at any time since the end of the Cold War,

:41:39.:41:43.

weakening our Corporation and failing to stand up for European

:41:44.:41:47.

values would be a costly mistake. Our vote to leave the EU was no

:41:48.:41:51.

rejection of the values we share as fellow Europeans. As a fellow

:41:52.:41:55.

European country, we will continue to play our part in promoting and

:41:56.:41:59.

supporting those values during the negotiations and once they are done.

:42:00.:42:05.

We will continue to be reliable partners, willing allies and close

:42:06.:42:10.

friends. We want to continue to buy goods and services from the EU and

:42:11.:42:13.

sell them hours. We want to trade with them as freely as possible, and

:42:14.:42:18.

work together to make sure we are all safer, more secure and more

:42:19.:42:21.

prosperous through continued friendship. Indeed in an

:42:22.:42:25.

increasingly unstable world, we must continue to forge the closest

:42:26.:42:29.

possible security cooperation to keep our people safe. We face the

:42:30.:42:33.

same global threats from terrorism and extremism. That message was only

:42:34.:42:38.

reinforced by the Borren to tack on Westminster Bridge and this place

:42:39.:42:43.

last week. -- the abhorrent attack. So there is no reason why they

:42:44.:42:47.

should not be a special partnership between the UK and the EU that works

:42:48.:42:52.

for us all. Mr Speaker, I know that this is a day of celebration for

:42:53.:42:57.

some disappointment for others. The referendum last June was divisive at

:42:58.:43:00.

times. Not everyone shared the same point of view or voted the same way.

:43:01.:43:05.

The arguments on both sides were passionate. But Mr Speaker, when I

:43:06.:43:09.

sit around the negotiating table in the months ahead, I will represent

:43:10.:43:13.

every person in the United Kingdom, young and old, rich and poor, city,

:43:14.:43:18.

town, country and all the villages and hamlets in between. And yes,

:43:19.:43:22.

those EU nationals who have made this country their home. And it is

:43:23.:43:27.

my fierce determination to get the right deal for every single person

:43:28.:43:30.

in this country. For as we face the opportunities ahead of us on this

:43:31.:43:34.

momentum journey, our shared values, interests and ambitions can and must

:43:35.:43:41.

bring us together. We all want to see a Britain that is stronger than

:43:42.:43:45.

it is today. We all want a country that is fairer so that everyone has

:43:46.:43:50.

the chance to succeed. We all want a nation that is safe and secure for

:43:51.:43:53.

our children and grandchildren. We all want to live in a truly global

:43:54.:43:57.

Britain that gets out and build relationships with old friends and

:43:58.:44:01.

new allies around the world. These are the ambitions of this Government

:44:02.:44:06.

was my plan for Britain, ambitions that unite us so we are no longer

:44:07.:44:10.

defined by the vote we cast but by our determination to make a success

:44:11.:44:15.

of the result. We are one great union of people and nations with a

:44:16.:44:20.

proud history and a bright future. And now that the decision to leave

:44:21.:44:25.

has been made and the process is under way, it is time to come

:44:26.:44:29.

together. For this great national moment needs a great national

:44:30.:44:34.

effort. An effort to shape a stronger future for Britain. So let

:44:35.:44:39.

us do so together. Let us come together and work together. Let us

:44:40.:44:45.

together choose to believe in Britain with optimism and hope. For

:44:46.:44:49.

if we do, we can make the most of the opportunities ahead. We can

:44:50.:44:53.

together make a success of this moment. And we can together will

:44:54.:44:59.

they stronger, fairer, better Britain, a Britain our children and

:45:00.:45:02.

grandchildren are proud to call home. I commend this statement to

:45:03.:45:03.

the House. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like

:45:04.:45:16.

to thank the Prime Minister for an advance copy of her statement. Today

:45:17.:45:23.

we embark on the country's most important negotiations in modern

:45:24.:45:27.

times. The British people made the decision to leave the European

:45:28.:45:30.

Union, and Labour respect that decision. The next steps along this

:45:31.:45:36.

journey are the most crucial. If the Prime Minister is to unite the

:45:37.:45:40.

country as she says she aims to do, the Government needs to listen,

:45:41.:45:46.

consult and represent the whole country, not just the hardline Tory

:45:47.:45:55.

ideologues on our own benches. Britain is going to change as a

:45:56.:45:58.

result of leaving the European Union. The question is, how? There

:45:59.:46:05.

are Conservatives who want to use Brexit to turn this country into a

:46:06.:46:06.

low-wage tax havens. Labour is determined to invest in a

:46:07.:46:21.

high skill, high-tech, high wage future, to rebuild and transform

:46:22.:46:25.

Britain, so that no one and no community is left behind. Mr

:46:26.:46:32.

Speaker, the direction the Prime Minister is threatening to take this

:46:33.:46:35.

country in is both a reckless and damaging. And Labour will not give

:46:36.:46:42.

this Government a free hand to use Brexit to attack rights, protections

:46:43.:46:47.

and cut services, or create a tax dodgers' paradise. So let me be

:46:48.:46:52.

clear, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister says that no deal is better

:46:53.:47:00.

than a bad deal. But the reality is, no deal is a bad deal. Less than a

:47:01.:47:08.

year ago, the Treasury estimated that leaving the European Union on

:47:09.:47:15.

World Trade Organisation terms would lead to a 7.5% fall in our GDP. And

:47:16.:47:26.

?45 billion lost in tax receipts. Has the Treasury updated those

:47:27.:47:31.

figures, or do they still stand? If updated, can they be published? If

:47:32.:47:36.

not, what deal could be worse than those consequences of no deal? It

:47:37.:47:43.

would be a national failure of historic proportions if the Prime

:47:44.:47:47.

Minister comes back from Brussels without having secured protection

:47:48.:47:55.

for jobs and living standards. So we will use every Parliamentary

:47:56.:47:57.

opportunity to ensure this Government is held to account at

:47:58.:48:05.

every stage of the negotiations. Mr Speaker, we all have an interest in

:48:06.:48:09.

ensuring the Prime Minister gets the best deal for this country. To

:48:10.:48:14.

safeguard jobs, living standards, we do need full access to the single

:48:15.:48:19.

market. The Secretary of State for exiting the EU seems to agree on

:48:20.:48:24.

this. He stated in this House on the 24th of January the Government plan

:48:25.:48:29.

is, and I quote, a comprehensive free trade agreement and a

:48:30.:48:34.

comprehensive customs agreement that will deliver the exact same benefits

:48:35.:48:40.

as we have. So that is what they pledged. So will the Prime Minister

:48:41.:48:45.

confirmed today that she intends to deliver a trade and customs

:48:46.:48:49.

agreement with the exact same benefits? The same goes for

:48:50.:48:57.

protecting workers' right and environmental standards, protecting

:48:58.:49:01.

Britain's nations and regions, protecting Britain's financial

:49:02.:49:04.

sector and services and making sure there is no return to a hard border

:49:05.:49:11.

in Northern Ireland. And when, Mr Speaker, does she expect to be able

:49:12.:49:16.

to guarantee the rights of all those EU nationals who live, work and make

:49:17.:49:21.

such a massive and welcome contribution to this country? And

:49:22.:49:29.

for those British and is who live in all parts of the European Union,

:49:30.:49:32.

including guaranteeing that they were a pensions will not be frozen

:49:33.:49:43.

post-Brexit. Brexit would be a huge task for any Government. But so far

:49:44.:49:47.

they seem utterly complacent about the scale of the task ahead. The

:49:48.:49:52.

Government Ministers cannot make up their minds about the real

:49:53.:49:56.

objective. The Foreign Secretary, he is here today, said in October, our

:49:57.:50:00.

policy is having our cake and eating it. How apposite from the Foreign

:50:01.:50:08.

Secretary. Today, the Chancellor on BBC Radio 4 said, we can't have our

:50:09.:50:13.

cake and eat it. Maybe they should get together and talk about it.

:50:14.:50:19.

These at one level Mr Speaker might seem like a flippant exchanges from

:50:20.:50:22.

Ministers, but they do reflect serious differences about Britain's

:50:23.:50:28.

negotiating aims. The Government must speak with a united voice.

:50:29.:50:34.

However, the Foreign Secretary is the same man who promised our

:50:35.:50:39.

National Health Service ?350 million a week once we left the EU. Now he

:50:40.:50:46.

believes that leaving the EU without a deal would be perfectly OK. It

:50:47.:50:52.

would not be perfectly OK, it would damage our economy and people's

:50:53.:50:57.

living standards. Will the Prime Minister confirmed that she rejects

:50:58.:51:02.

such complacency? Labour set out our tests for this Government 's Brexit

:51:03.:51:07.

negotiations, and we will use all means possible to make sure we hold

:51:08.:51:12.

the Government to this word. An full access to the single market, on

:51:13.:51:15.

protecting Britain from being dragged into a race for the bottom,

:51:16.:51:19.

and ensuring our future relationship with the European Union is strong

:51:20.:51:24.

and cooperative. A relationship where we can work together to bring

:51:25.:51:27.

prosperity and peace to our continent. If the Prime Minister can

:51:28.:51:33.

deliver aid Eildon meets our tests, that will be fine, we will backfire.

:51:34.:51:37.

More than ever, Britain needs a Government that will deliver for the

:51:38.:51:42.

whole country, not just a few, and that is the ultimate test of the

:51:43.:51:45.

Brexit deal, that the Prime Minister must now secure. I'm grateful to the

:51:46.:51:51.

right honourable gentleman. course we now enter the formal

:51:52.:52:11.

process of negotiation. It does seem the message he sent today has not

:52:12.:52:15.

got through to the whole of his front bench. I understand of the

:52:16.:52:20.

Cabinet met his shadow international trade Secretary tweeted a photo of

:52:21.:52:24.

me signing the letter, claiming I was signing away our country's

:52:25.:52:28.

future. I'm afraid that's what we see from Labour all too often,

:52:29.:52:31.

talking down Britain, desperate for the negotiations to fail and out of

:52:32.:52:38.

touch with ordinary working people. He's referred to the tests which

:52:39.:52:42.

I'll come onto. He asked me specifically about EU nationals. I

:52:43.:52:45.

have expressly referred to this in the letter to President Tusk and

:52:46.:52:51.

made it clear that I would hope we could deal with this issue of EU

:52:52.:52:54.

nationals here and UK nationals in other member states at as early as

:52:55.:53:01.

possible stage in the negotiations. I believe there is goodwill on both

:53:02.:53:06.

sides to do that. He mentioned the Labour Party tests which they've set

:53:07.:53:08.

out for negotiations. I've been looking at them. There are

:53:09.:53:13.

principles that the government has time and time again said we are

:53:14.:53:17.

determined to meet. He asks will the final deal ensure a strong and

:53:18.:53:20.

collaborative future with the EU. Yes. In my letter to President Tusk

:53:21.:53:25.

that's exactly what I set out our intention is to be. Will it deliver

:53:26.:53:30.

the same benefits we have? We've been clear that we want to get the

:53:31.:53:34.

best possible deal and free and frictionless trade. Will the deal

:53:35.:53:42.

protect national security? Yes. Will the deal deliver for all regions and

:53:43.:53:47.

nations of the UK? We've been very clear that we are taking all nations

:53:48.:53:51.

and regions into account as I said in a letter to President Tusk. As I

:53:52.:53:56.

said earlier in answer to questions in PMQs we expect that as powers are

:53:57.:54:01.

repatriated devolved administrations will see a significant increase in

:54:02.:54:05.

decision-making. His fifth test was Will the deal defend rights and

:54:06.:54:11.

protect from a race to the bottom? We've been very clear that workers'

:54:12.:54:15.

rights will be protected, it is not something up for negotiation under

:54:16.:54:17.

this government. He should perhaps listen to his own Mayor of London

:54:18.:54:24.

who has said" to give credit to the government, I do not think they want

:54:25.:54:27.

to change workers' rights. There has been some anxiety, I have seen no

:54:28.:54:35.

evidence that it is their aspiration or something they want to do". But

:54:36.:54:39.

there is a sixth test the Labour Party has set out which I don't

:54:40.:54:42.

think the honourable gentleman specifically mentioned and perhaps

:54:43.:54:45.

that is because of confusion in the Labour Party because the sixth test

:54:46.:54:49.

is will the deal ensure fair management of migration? What we see

:54:50.:54:53.

on that is a confused picture from the Labour Party. The Shadow Home

:54:54.:54:57.

Secretary says freedom of movement is a worker 's right and the Right

:54:58.:55:02.

Honourable gentleman himself said the following. Labour is not wedded

:55:03.:55:07.

to freedom of movement for EU citizens as a point of principle,

:55:08.:55:12.

but I don't want that to be misinterpreted, nor do we rule it

:55:13.:55:16.

out. Little wonder nobody has any idea what the Labour Party position

:55:17.:55:17.

on that issue is. To all those we should be coming

:55:18.:55:27.

together and exacting the ambition of our country for the future and we

:55:28.:55:32.

should not be talking down the negotiations as he does. We should

:55:33.:55:36.

set out our optimism and determination to get the best

:55:37.:55:39.

possible deal for everybody in the United Kingdom.

:55:40.:55:50.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Leader of the Opposition 's remarks were

:55:51.:55:55.

breathtaking. For decades, from Maastricht onwards, he voted with us

:55:56.:55:59.

over and over and over again and today, Mr Speaker, this is a

:56:00.:56:04.

historic day indeed. Can my right honourable friend reaffirmed that at

:56:05.:56:08.

the very heart of this letter lies the democratic decision in the

:56:09.:56:12.

referendum of UK voters, given to them by a sovereign act of

:56:13.:56:17.

Parliament by 6-1 in this house, enabling the British people to

:56:18.:56:24.

regain their birthright to govern themselves, for which people fought

:56:25.:56:26.

and died over generations? The referendum was then followed by a

:56:27.:56:36.

massive majority of 372 in this house on the third reading of the

:56:37.:56:42.

withdrawal bill itself. Trade and cooperation, yes. European

:56:43.:56:47.

government, no. I think I can give my honourable friend the reassurance

:56:48.:56:51.

that he seeks. If I just quote from the very opening paragraph of my

:56:52.:56:55.

letter to President task, the very first line is to reaffirm that on

:56:56.:56:59.

June 23 last year the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the

:57:00.:57:03.

European Union but I go on to say that we do want the European Union

:57:04.:57:08.

to succeed and prosper. The vote was not a rejection of the values that

:57:09.:57:11.

we share as fellow Europeans, instead the referendum was about to

:57:12.:57:17.

restore as we see it, our national self-determination. It is important

:57:18.:57:28.

for everybody to remember on this day that on the referendum for the

:57:29.:57:32.

European Union the people of Scotland voted by 62% to remain in

:57:33.:57:38.

the European Union. Every single local government area in the country

:57:39.:57:42.

voted to remain in the European Union. Mr Speaker, this happened two

:57:43.:57:48.

years after Scottish voters were told that they had to voted no to

:57:49.:57:54.

Scottish independence to remain in the European Union, and yet

:57:55.:57:59.

ironically this is exactly what will happen now, because of the majority

:58:00.:58:04.

elsewhere in the United Kingdom, it will being imposed on the people of

:58:05.:58:10.

Scotland. Last year, Mr Speaker, I have raised repeatedly in this

:58:11.:58:15.

chamber the Prime Minister made a commitment to a UK wide approach and

:58:16.:58:21.

agreement with the governments of Scotland, Wales and Northern

:58:22.:58:25.

Ireland. Since then the Scottish Government has published a

:58:26.:58:30.

compromise suggestion. At its heart a plan that could satisfy people in

:58:31.:58:35.

Scotland and the rest of UK. The Prime Minister could have said that

:58:36.:58:44.

she would try, try to seek an agreement with European partners on

:58:45.:58:49.

the plan, which could have protected Scotland's place in the European

:58:50.:58:53.

market, but she did not. The Prime Minister could have taken the views

:58:54.:58:58.

of the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish governments seriously and she

:58:59.:59:02.

could have reached an agreement before triggering Article 50, as she

:59:03.:59:08.

promised. She did not and she does not... Order! I apologise for

:59:09.:59:13.

interrupting the gentlemen, we cannot have side exchanges taking

:59:14.:59:15.

place while the right honourable gentleman should have the floor.

:59:16.:59:21.

Yes, I'm perfectly capable of seeing whence the disruption hailed, but I

:59:22.:59:25.

hope it will not persist. The honourable gentleman has important

:59:26.:59:28.

responsibilities in the government Whip office and he is normally the

:59:29.:59:32.

embodiment of courtesy, to which I know he will now return. Mr Angus

:59:33.:59:38.

Robertson. Thank you, Mr Speaker. We on these benches has become

:59:39.:59:41.

accustomed to the views of members on the other side of the house being

:59:42.:59:44.

incapable of understanding that the people of Scotland voted to remain

:59:45.:59:50.

in the European Union. The Prime Minister promised, promised... The

:59:51.:59:57.

honourable gentlemen and ladies opposite should understand that we

:59:58.:00:01.

have televisions in Scotland and viewers in Scotland can see this

:00:02.:00:06.

discourtesy from the benches opposite. They don't like to hear it

:00:07.:00:13.

but listen they must. The Prime Minister promised an agreement.

:00:14.:00:18.

There is no agreement. She has broken her word, and as Scotland's

:00:19.:00:23.

members of Parliament, we have been sent here with a mandate to stand up

:00:24.:00:28.

for the people of Scotland, it is a mandate that the Prime Minister does

:00:29.:00:36.

not enjoy. 58 out of 59, 58 out of 59 MPs from Scotland voted against

:00:37.:00:44.

triggering Article 50. The Scottish parliament voted against the

:00:45.:00:48.

triggering of Article 50, the Scottish Government was against the

:00:49.:00:52.

triggering of Article 50 before an agreement, and what has this

:00:53.:00:56.

government done? It has carried on blithely, ignoring the views of

:00:57.:01:00.

people in Scotland and its democratically represented a lack --

:01:01.:01:05.

democratically elected representatives. Europe is watching

:01:06.:01:09.

and it is watching the way that this government treats parts of the

:01:10.:01:12.

European Union that voted to remain with Europe. Mr Speaker, the UK

:01:13.:01:17.

Government had a mandate to hold a Brexit referendum. We accept that.

:01:18.:01:24.

We accept the result to leave in the rest of the United Kingdom, and in

:01:25.:01:32.

that context... Again, Mr Speaker, the benches opposite do not seem to

:01:33.:01:36.

understand that the United Kingdom is a multinational state with four

:01:37.:01:41.

nations, and two of them voted to stay, and two of them voted to leave

:01:42.:01:45.

and all of the rhetoric from the government benches does not paper

:01:46.:01:51.

over the gaping chasm that there was not unity in this so-called United

:01:52.:02:01.

Kingdom. As Democrats we should all accept that the Scottish Government

:02:02.:02:05.

has a mandate, given that by the people of Scotland, in an election

:02:06.:02:09.

that we should have a choice after the negotiations have concluded. It

:02:10.:02:15.

should not be kicked into the long grass on that democratic choice

:02:16.:02:19.

tonight. Yesterday the Scottish Parliament voted by 69-59 that

:02:20.:02:23.

people and scholars should have that choice. Will the Prime Minister

:02:24.:02:28.

confirm that she will recognise the democratic right of the people to

:02:29.:02:35.

make their own choice after negotiations have concluded? Mr

:02:36.:02:37.

Speaker, the Prime Minister says that she thinks that Brexit will

:02:38.:02:42.

bring unity to the United Kingdom. It will not. On this issue it is not

:02:43.:02:49.

a United Kingdom and the Prime Minister needs to respect the

:02:50.:02:53.

differences across the nations of the United Kingdom. If she does not

:02:54.:02:58.

and she remains intransigent, and if she denies Scotland a choice in our

:02:59.:03:02.

future, she will make Scottish independence inevitable. Calm

:03:03.:03:17.

yourselves! You are an exceptionally over excitable individual,

:03:18.:03:21.

brandishing your order paper in a distinctly eccentric manner. Go and

:03:22.:03:25.

entertain yourself somewhere else if you can't calm yourself. The Prime

:03:26.:03:29.

Minister. The right honourable gentleman has said this afternoon on

:03:30.:03:33.

a number of occasions, as he has on many occasions in this House before,

:03:34.:03:38.

that Scotland voted to remain in the European Union and should therefore

:03:39.:03:42.

be treated differently. My constituency voted to remain in the

:03:43.:04:00.

European Union! The point is that we are one United Kingdom. It was a

:04:01.:04:05.

vote of the whole of the united Kingdom. What I hear from people

:04:06.:04:10.

outside of this chamber, and by the way the right honourable gentleman

:04:11.:04:16.

seems to forget that something like 400,000 SNP supporters voted to

:04:17.:04:21.

leave the European Union. What I hear from people outside this

:04:22.:04:25.

chamber, from individuals and businesses alike, whether they voted

:04:26.:04:30.

to remain or to leave, is that the vote, having been taken, the

:04:31.:04:32.

decision having been given to people, of the United Kingdom that

:04:33.:04:37.

we should now respect that vote and get on with the job of delivering

:04:38.:04:44.

for everybody across the whole of the United Kingdom. He refers to the

:04:45.:04:49.

issue of Scottish independence and its impact on membership of the

:04:50.:04:54.

European Union. It is the case, and the European union has reinforced

:04:55.:05:02.

the Barroso doctrine, that is Scotland were to... They seem to

:05:03.:05:05.

find it amusing but just to remind everybody that that is the doctrine

:05:06.:05:09.

that if Scotland were to become depends on the United Kingdom and if

:05:10.:05:15.

they had voted for independence in 2016 that they would have ceased to

:05:16.:05:20.

be a member of the European Union. We will be ensuring that the

:05:21.:05:25.

substance of the deal that we achieve, the substance of the deal

:05:26.:05:30.

that we achieve, and I am interested in the outcomes of this deal, will

:05:31.:05:34.

be the best possible deal for the people of the whole of the United

:05:35.:05:41.

Kingdom. He talks about democratic representation and democratic

:05:42.:05:43.

responsibility. Perhaps the Scottish Government might like to consider

:05:44.:05:46.

White has not passed a single piece of legislation in Holyrood in the

:05:47.:05:54.

past year. -- why the Scottish Government has not passed a single

:05:55.:05:59.

piece of legislation... I especially welcome that we want a special

:06:00.:06:05.

relationship with the EU, based on friendship and trade and many other

:06:06.:06:08.

collaborations once we are an independent country again. Would my

:06:09.:06:12.

right honourable friend confirm that the UK Government is offering tariff

:06:13.:06:16.

free trade with no new barriers to all of our partners in Europe, which

:06:17.:06:21.

must make enormous sense for them? My right honourable friend is

:06:22.:06:26.

absolutely right, we want to see that tariff free trade on a

:06:27.:06:29.

reciprocal basis with the other countries in the European union. I

:06:30.:06:33.

think it makes sense and we already operate on the same basis because we

:06:34.:06:36.

operate under the same rules and regulations and I think we should

:06:37.:06:39.

look to have that maxim of free trade between the two countries. I

:06:40.:06:46.

thank the Prime Minister for her statement and for advance sight of

:06:47.:06:49.

it but today the Prime Minister is not an the will of the people, she

:06:50.:06:55.

is at best interpreting that will, choosing a hard Brexit outside the

:06:56.:06:59.

single market, that was never on the ballot paper. This day of all days,

:07:00.:07:04.

the Liberal Democrats will not roll over, as the official opposition has

:07:05.:07:12.

done. Our children and our grandchildren will judge all of us

:07:13.:07:17.

for our actions during these times. I am determined that I will look my

:07:18.:07:20.

children in the eye and be able to say that I did everything to prevent

:07:21.:07:25.

this calamity that the Prime Minister has today chosen. We now

:07:26.:07:30.

face an unknown deal that will shape our country for generations. The

:07:31.:07:34.

deal will be signed off by someone and the only question is who. Will

:07:35.:07:38.

it be the politicians or should it be the people? Surely the Prime

:07:39.:07:41.

Minister will agree with me that the people should have the final say? I

:07:42.:07:49.

say to the right honourable gentleman, can I gently remind him

:07:50.:07:53.

that he talks about us enacting the decision of the referendum, of

:07:54.:07:55.

course, we're acting the decision that was taken by the people of the

:07:56.:07:59.

United Kingdom enough referendum that I might remind him that it is

:08:00.:08:02.

not that long ago that the Liberal Democrat party wanted a referendum

:08:03.:08:08.

on this and we gave it to the man we are abiding by it. The Prime

:08:09.:08:16.

Minister has made it very clear that immigration is her number one

:08:17.:08:21.

priority. As a result of that, we cannot accept the free movement of

:08:22.:08:24.

people and we cannot remain a member of the single market. But, Mr

:08:25.:08:30.

Speaker, that may change in the next two years, who knows what might

:08:31.:08:34.

happen? The EU may move away from that principle of the free movement

:08:35.:08:40.

of people. In that event, could the Prime Minister give an assurance

:08:41.:08:43.

that she has not turned her back on membership of the single market? It

:08:44.:08:49.

is what British business once and it would stay off Nicola Sturgeon and

:08:50.:08:54.

the SNP is outrageous demands for a second referendum, and... And these

:08:55.:09:08.

are serious matters that this United Kingdom faces. It would provide the

:09:09.:09:13.

solution to Northern Ireland as we now leave the European Union. Can I

:09:14.:09:20.

just gently say to my honourable friend she started her question by

:09:21.:09:25.

saying that immigration was the number one priority. What we have

:09:26.:09:28.

done is said that we want a comprehensive package which does

:09:29.:09:32.

enable us to control immigration and set our own rules on immigration but

:09:33.:09:36.

also has exactly the sort of free access to the single market that I

:09:37.:09:39.

think my honourable friend is talking about and businesses want to

:09:40.:09:43.

see and I believe that we can achieve that agreement and we should

:09:44.:09:46.

be optimistic and ambitious in achieving that agreement. There are

:09:47.:09:55.

all the freedoms that the European Unions leaders will quote in

:09:56.:09:57.

relation to full membership of the single market, such as the

:09:58.:09:59.

jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice and I think people voted

:10:00.:10:03.

to stop that jurisdiction last year and what matters to me is the

:10:04.:10:07.

outcome, not the structure by which we achieve that outcome, but will we

:10:08.:10:11.

have the free and frictionless tariff free access to the single

:10:12.:10:14.

market, and that is what we want to achieve and it is what we are

:10:15.:10:15.

working for. Can I thank the Prime Minister for

:10:16.:10:23.

her statement and congratulate her government on delivering on the will

:10:24.:10:28.

of the people of the United Kingdom and wish her well and her government

:10:29.:10:34.

in the negotiations that lie ahead. We are convinced that she is the

:10:35.:10:38.

right leader of our country for these challenges. And isn't the

:10:39.:10:47.

fundamental point this: that this United Kingdom, this union is far

:10:48.:10:53.

more important for the economic prosperity of all our people than

:10:54.:10:59.

the European Union? And can I also commend her for putting in article

:11:00.:11:04.

five in the principles she put out, Northern Ireland, the relationship

:11:05.:11:08.

of the Republic, and the way that has put forward. She will have our

:11:09.:11:12.

support in the coming months and years in this house to make that a

:11:13.:11:17.

reality. I thank the right honourable gentleman for his

:11:18.:11:21.

comments, particularly that we have recognised the particular

:11:22.:11:24.

circumstances of Northern Ireland and its relationship because of the

:11:25.:11:27.

land border with the Republic of Ireland. I recognised that in the

:11:28.:11:31.

letter to President Tusk. Can I agree with him when he says the most

:11:32.:11:37.

important union economically and for this United Kingdom in other ways is

:11:38.:11:41.

the United Kingdom. It is the case that for individual constituent

:11:42.:11:46.

parts it is the trading within the single market of the United Kingdom

:11:47.:11:49.

is far more important than trading with the European Union. Can I

:11:50.:11:54.

commend my right honourable friend for her constructive, positive and

:11:55.:11:58.

realistic tone she has set today with her statement and the letter to

:11:59.:12:03.

Donald Tusk. Can I also can't graduate her and her government for

:12:04.:12:06.

the use of the last nine months in order to prepare us for this point

:12:07.:12:11.

making up for the lack of preparation by the last

:12:12.:12:17.

administration for this moment. And can I also urge on herbal

:12:18.:12:20.

preparation that is implicit in this letter, that if it is impossible to

:12:21.:12:25.

get a deal home, that whilst that will be coped with by the United

:12:26.:12:29.

Kingdom and the European Union as it must be, that we are in the position

:12:30.:12:35.

to cope with it, should that happen. I thank my right honourable friend

:12:36.:12:40.

and it is important, we are approaching this in a realistic and

:12:41.:12:45.

pragmatic way, as he says. It is absolutely right of course

:12:46.:12:48.

government will be working across all departments to ensure that we

:12:49.:12:52.

have preparations in place whatever the outcome be. As I made clear in

:12:53.:12:57.

my letter to President Tusk, while both the European Union and the UK

:12:58.:13:00.

could cope with no agreement, that would not be the ideal situation, it

:13:01.:13:05.

is not what we would be working for and we should actively be working to

:13:06.:13:10.

get the right deal for both sides. Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister is

:13:11.:13:14.

right to say in her statement that this eventual deal must work for the

:13:15.:13:19.

48% as well as the 52%, because whether we were Remainers or levers

:13:20.:13:22.

we are in the same country together after Brexit. Can I emphasise to her

:13:23.:13:30.

that national unity must be earned and not just asserted. And it must

:13:31.:13:35.

be shown in deeds and not just in words. And we are a long, long way

:13:36.:13:39.

away from it and I think she will agree with that. As she reflects on

:13:40.:13:45.

the statement, can she say what she thinks she needs to do differently

:13:46.:13:49.

in the next 24 months to achieve that national unity which, frankly,

:13:50.:13:55.

eludes us at the moment. I think the most important thing that we can do,

:13:56.:13:58.

to things that we will be doing over the next 24 months as a government,

:13:59.:14:03.

one is putting in place our plan for Britain which is about ensuring that

:14:04.:14:07.

we see the United Kingdom where the economy works for everyone, where we

:14:08.:14:11.

see a much fairer society, where success is based on merit, not

:14:12.:14:15.

privilege. That's what is driving this government and that's what we

:14:16.:14:18.

will put into place domestic league. Also for the unity of the UK the

:14:19.:14:22.

most important relation to the negotiations with Europe is to get

:14:23.:14:27.

the best possible deal in terms of cooperation on security but also in

:14:28.:14:30.

terms of the free trade arrangement which will bring prosperity to our

:14:31.:14:35.

economy. Can I thank and congratulate my right honourable

:14:36.:14:38.

friend for resolutely sticking to her promise to the UK people to

:14:39.:14:43.

trigger Article 50. There will be celebrations all around the country,

:14:44.:14:49.

nowhere more so than coastal communities where the health and

:14:50.:14:52.

welfare of our fishing grounds has been trashed by the common fisheries

:14:53.:14:57.

policy. In order to fully re-establish our national control we

:14:58.:15:04.

will have to aggregate our meat membership of the London Convention

:15:05.:15:07.

on fisheries 1964 and that requires two years notice, as my right

:15:08.:15:12.

honourable friend intend to trigger that soon? My right honourable

:15:13.:15:17.

friend has always had an interest in the impact of common fisheries and

:15:18.:15:22.

it is an issue he has looked at. We are looking closely at the

:15:23.:15:24.

convention and what needs to be done. He is right it would require

:15:25.:15:29.

two years. Of course we expect to conclude the deal with the European

:15:30.:15:33.

Union within two years but there will be then periods of

:15:34.:15:36.

implementation periods beyond that period of time but we would hope to

:15:37.:15:39.

be able to say something about the fisheries convention soon. There are

:15:40.:15:46.

many across this house who are very aware of the sheer scale and

:15:47.:15:50.

complexity of the negotiations that will face our team and very

:15:51.:15:54.

conscious of the importance of getting those right. It has never

:15:55.:15:59.

been more true that the devil will be in the detail. As that detail

:16:00.:16:02.

emerges, will the Prime Minister ensure that everybody in her teens

:16:03.:16:06.

stops the practice which has been so prevalent of claiming that every

:16:07.:16:11.

awkward question is evidence of a desire to overturn the will of the

:16:12.:16:18.

British people? The right honourable lady is absolutely right that these

:16:19.:16:22.

will be very complex negotiations and I think it was right to wait for

:16:23.:16:28.

the nine months that we have done in order to invoke article 57 we have

:16:29.:16:31.

been able to do a considerable amount of preparation. There will be

:16:32.:16:35.

technical discussions to take place as well as the higher level

:16:36.:16:39.

discussions, and I can assure the right honourable lady that we

:16:40.:16:43.

consistently ask ourselves difficult questions to ensure that we are

:16:44.:16:48.

testing every approach that we put forward so that we get the best

:16:49.:16:52.

possible deal. May I reassure my right honourable friend that Donald

:16:53.:16:56.

Tusk has indeed received the letter, he tweeted about it one minute

:16:57.:17:02.

earlier which shows the keenness of our team. May I also told the Prime

:17:03.:17:10.

Minister that Donald Tusk has said that he is missing us already but

:17:11.:17:15.

that he recognises it is in the European Union's interest as well as

:17:16.:17:20.

that of the United Kingdom that we achieve an agreement that will

:17:21.:17:23.

benefit both sides in this negotiation. This is absolutely

:17:24.:17:32.

right. I'm pleased to hear that President Tusk has taken the view.

:17:33.:17:36.

This is not just about the United Kingdom for the future, it is about

:17:37.:17:39.

the European Union for the future and about the relationship that we

:17:40.:17:43.

will have with them. As I said in the letter we wanted deeper and

:17:44.:17:46.

special partnership to continue in the future. The Prime Minister has

:17:47.:17:55.

the goodwill of the country as she seeks a new relationship with our

:17:56.:18:00.

European allies. Will she confirmed that enshrines posing EU directives

:18:01.:18:05.

and regulations into UK law we don't transpose all the rulings of the

:18:06.:18:09.

ECJ. We do not have the EU Charter of fundamental rights imposed given

:18:10.:18:12.

that we have long-standing assurances that it will not have

:18:13.:18:18.

legal force in this country. I would say to the honourable gentleman that

:18:19.:18:21.

we will be publishing the great repeal Bill tomorrow which will make

:18:22.:18:28.

clearer how we are going to transpose the relevant judgments of

:18:29.:18:33.

the European Court of justice. This government has taken a very clear

:18:34.:18:37.

position that we don't think that the European Charter of fundamental

:18:38.:18:40.

human rights is something that is applicable. In her letter to

:18:41.:18:50.

President Tusk, the Prime Minister said in January, we are leaving the

:18:51.:18:54.

European Union, we are not leaving Europe. She will know that 16.1

:18:55.:18:59.

million people last June voted to do neither. But the result is as it is

:19:00.:19:04.

an needs to be honoured. Could my right honourable friend say how she

:19:05.:19:07.

will keep Parliament fully engaged, this Parliament, through that

:19:08.:19:10.

process, and also that she will do her utmost to secure a trade deal we

:19:11.:19:17.

can all support and not listen to the siren voices who seem to think

:19:18.:19:21.

that no deal is a good option? I'm very happy to give the reassurance

:19:22.:19:25.

to my right honourable friend. I want to secure a really good trade

:19:26.:19:29.

deal for the United Kingdom. I also want to secure trade deals with

:19:30.:19:32.

countries around the rest of the world. We do want to ensure and we

:19:33.:19:36.

start off from a good position because we are operating on the same

:19:37.:19:40.

rules and regulations as the European Union, that we get that

:19:41.:19:45.

really good trade deal with the EU. There will be significant

:19:46.:19:47.

opportunities for this house and Parliament to consider opportunities

:19:48.:19:52.

as we go through the next two years. The great repeal bill itself will be

:19:53.:19:55.

a matter foot of and consideration in this house. There will also be

:19:56.:20:00.

some subsequent pieces of legislation required as a result of

:20:01.:20:03.

the decision to leave the European Union which will come before this

:20:04.:20:07.

house and we will make every effort to keep this house informed as we go

:20:08.:20:11.

through. I've always said we will be clear and give clarity were able to

:20:12.:20:17.

do so. The Prime Minister will no doubt recall the referendum speech

:20:18.:20:24.

she made last April in which she said "The big question is whether in

:20:25.:20:27.

the event of Brexit we would be able to negotiate a new free trade

:20:28.:20:34.

agreement with the EU and on what terms". Given that the European

:20:35.:20:37.

Union appears to want to start the negotiations by talking only about

:20:38.:20:44.

money, given that there are about 18 months ago, how is the Prime

:20:45.:20:47.

Minister going to ensure that there is sufficient time to reach that

:20:48.:20:51.

agreement to provide tariff and barrier free trade and access to the

:20:52.:20:56.

European market for our services that she has promised Britain's

:20:57.:21:00.

businesses that she will bring back from the negotiations? Of course we

:21:01.:21:08.

don't yet know how the European Council will choose to friend the

:21:09.:21:10.

negotiations. I will be meeting on the 29th of April to determine that.

:21:11.:21:16.

There will be the two parts to the work going forward. One is the

:21:17.:21:20.

process of withdrawal and the terms of withdrawal and the other is what

:21:21.:21:25.

the future relationship will be. It's clear in Article 50 that the

:21:26.:21:30.

former should be done in the context of the latter. So I think it is not

:21:31.:21:33.

just reasonable but entirely right and proper that we look at those two

:21:34.:21:37.

issues alongside each other. As I've said in answer to other questions,

:21:38.:21:41.

the point about the comprehensive free trade agreement is that we will

:21:42.:21:47.

not be operating as a third party such as Canada for example when it

:21:48.:21:50.

started its negotiations with the European Union. We already operate

:21:51.:21:54.

on the same basis and already have that free trade between the European

:21:55.:21:58.

Union and the United Kingdom. I believe that sets us on a better

:21:59.:22:02.

basis on which to start those negotiations and that it will be

:22:03.:22:04.

possible to get that comprehensive free trade agreement. I thank the

:22:05.:22:11.

Prime Minister on her handling of the triggering of Article 50 and

:22:12.:22:14.

respecting the wishes of the British electorate at the referendum. Can I

:22:15.:22:18.

suggest there's another reason to make sure that guaranteeing the

:22:19.:22:20.

rights of EU nationals both living here and on the continent should be

:22:21.:22:26.

a very high priority. Not only is it the right thing to do and it

:22:27.:22:30.

establishes good intent but it would be clear to the world, should there

:22:31.:22:34.

be no agreement, that actually that would not be our fault, we would not

:22:35.:22:40.

be using EU nationals as bargaining chips? Well, I'm very clear in the

:22:41.:22:45.

letter I have sent to President Tusk that we intend to work on the rights

:22:46.:22:50.

of EU nationals and UK nationals living in the EU to be undertaken to

:22:51.:22:54.

be part of the negotiations at an early stage. As I've said before I

:22:55.:22:58.

genuinely believe there is goodwill to do that and I hope that we will

:22:59.:23:04.

be able to achieve that at an early stage of negotiations and give

:23:05.:23:07.

reassurance to both EU citizens living here and UK citizens living

:23:08.:23:10.

in the European Union of their future. The last Prime Minister did

:23:11.:23:16.

not want this day to come, although it did follow from many decisions he

:23:17.:23:22.

took over many years. And he will be remembered as the Prime Minister who

:23:23.:23:24.

unintentionally let Britain out of Europe. This Prime Minister, I know,

:23:25.:23:31.

does not want to see the break-up of the United Kingdom, but she will

:23:32.:23:36.

also note that holding us together requires more than just the rhetoric

:23:37.:23:40.

of unity. So can she say what she will do in both the content and

:23:41.:23:45.

style of her negotiations not to fuel further division, not to play

:23:46.:23:51.

into the hands of others, but to ensure voices from all over the

:23:52.:23:55.

country are genuinely heard in this debate so that she does not become a

:23:56.:23:59.

Prime Minister who unintentionally leads the break-up of Britain. Can I

:24:00.:24:05.

first of all say to the right honourable lady, she referred to the

:24:06.:24:08.

decision on the referendum as one of leaving Europe, it is leaving the

:24:09.:24:11.

European Union, it is not leaving Europe. We want at deep and special

:24:12.:24:17.

partnership with the European Union, and we will continue to be part of

:24:18.:24:20.

Europe and work with our friends and allies in Europe. As we go ahead we

:24:21.:24:27.

will continue to undertake discussions with not just the

:24:28.:24:30.

devolved administrations in the United Kingdom but with businesses

:24:31.:24:33.

across the United Kingdom, with other organisations across the UK,

:24:34.:24:39.

government departments are speaking with a whole range of sectors to

:24:40.:24:43.

ensure that all views and considerations are taken into

:24:44.:24:46.

account as we go forward in the negotiations. We want to make sure

:24:47.:24:49.

that we fully understand the concerns and interests people have

:24:50.:24:53.

and that's why we've already started talking widely with not just the

:24:54.:24:56.

devolved administrations but also others across the United Kingdom to

:24:57.:24:59.

ensure that we do get those views and take them into account.

:25:00.:25:05.

Can I congratulate my right honourable friend on her resolve in

:25:06.:25:11.

carrying forward the Democratic out crumb of the referendum and no

:25:12.:25:15.

matter what the differences are crosses House I can assure her that

:25:16.:25:18.

every single member of this House would wish her well for the

:25:19.:25:24.

negotiations ahead. No matter how those negotiations progress over the

:25:25.:25:28.

coming months and years, can she confirm that the United Kingdom will

:25:29.:25:33.

continue to prioritise Corporation and the exchange of information with

:25:34.:25:37.

the other European countries, to ensure that our internal and

:25:38.:25:42.

external security is not compromised in any way whatsoever. I am happy to

:25:43.:25:48.

give my right honourable friend that assurance. The security cooperation

:25:49.:25:52.

that we have, the cooperation we have on justice and home affairs

:25:53.:25:56.

matters, is very important to us as well as the member states of the

:25:57.:25:59.

European Union. It is something I worked closely on as Home Secretary

:26:00.:26:03.

and I can assure her that we will be looking to ensure that corporation

:26:04.:26:08.

can continue. Now, as we look at the challenges we face, across the

:26:09.:26:13.

globe, now is not the time for less Corporation, now is the time to

:26:14.:26:15.

ensure that we continue to cooperate and build on that. Could I remind

:26:16.:26:25.

the Prime Minister that Northern Ireland voted 56% to remain? My own

:26:26.:26:31.

constituency voted almost 70% and could I, with respect, Prime

:26:32.:26:35.

Minister, warn you about the Trojan horse being pushed out to you in the

:26:36.:26:40.

form of honey words from the bench behind me. The Prime Minister says

:26:41.:26:47.

that the interests of all nations and regions of the UK have to be

:26:48.:26:52.

taken into account in the negotiations. What measures has she

:26:53.:26:56.

been able to put into place, or does she intend to put into place, to

:26:57.:27:00.

ensure that the Northern Ireland views, needs and special

:27:01.:27:03.

circumstances are taken into account in these negotiations going forward?

:27:04.:27:07.

Can I thank the honourable gentleman for his question and the point he

:27:08.:27:10.

made about the boat in Northern Ireland is one that I was attempting

:27:11.:27:22.

to show earlier, which is that different parts of the United

:27:23.:27:24.

Kingdom voted in different ways, some voted to leave and some to

:27:25.:27:27.

remain. The overall result of the referendum from the United Kingdom

:27:28.:27:29.

was that we should leave the European Union and it is what we

:27:30.:27:32.

will be doing. We have been maintaining contact with the

:27:33.:27:34.

Northern Ireland executive up until the point at which the executive

:27:35.:27:39.

ceased to exist and the election was taking place. We have been

:27:40.:27:43.

continuing to talk to political parties in Northern Ireland on this

:27:44.:27:50.

issue. The best result to ensure the voice of the devolved administration

:27:51.:27:53.

can be heard in these negotiations is for the parties to come together

:27:54.:27:57.

and for us to see a strong devolved government that will provide us with

:27:58.:28:02.

that dealer Kutcher. Since the vote the economic news has confounded

:28:03.:28:07.

expectations. Economists for free trade have told us how WTO rules

:28:08.:28:11.

with the right policies can cut consumer prices and raise GDP and we

:28:12.:28:19.

have heard every reason to believe that we will secure the right trade

:28:20.:28:22.

deal for us and we will liberate trade right around the world. Will

:28:23.:28:26.

the Prime Minister agree with me that the time for project fee is

:28:27.:28:35.

over? My honourable right -- my honourable friend is right.

:28:36.:28:37.

Obviously there were predictions of what happened to the economy of the

:28:38.:28:40.

United Kingdom voted to leave and his predictions have not proved to

:28:41.:28:44.

be correct and we see a strong economy. As we go forward we want to

:28:45.:28:48.

build on that we want to ensure we get those comprehensive trade

:28:49.:28:51.

agreements. I believe a comprehensive free trade agreement

:28:52.:28:54.

with the European Union should be our aim and it is what we will be

:28:55.:28:58.

working for and we will also be looking to promote trade around the

:28:59.:29:02.

rest of the world, as my honourable friend says, it is I think in the

:29:03.:29:06.

interests of everybody, not just the UK or the EU but also countries

:29:07.:29:10.

around the world that we stand up for the benefits of free trade and

:29:11.:29:18.

we promote it around the world. As has been said the Prime Minister

:29:19.:29:22.

said in her statement she was taking due account of the specific interest

:29:23.:29:27.

in every nation and region of the UK. Leading councils in Yorkshire

:29:28.:29:34.

have had no contact whatsoever from the government. Can the Prime

:29:35.:29:40.

Minister please work now with local government and local enterprise

:29:41.:29:44.

boards in all English regions to analyse the effect on jobs and trade

:29:45.:29:49.

and investment so negotiations can achieve, as was promised, not just

:29:50.:29:55.

an aspiration by the Secretary of State for Brexit but the exact same

:29:56.:29:58.

benefits, as we have for membership of the single market in the customs

:29:59.:30:02.

union. She sidestepped the question from the Leader of the Opposition.

:30:03.:30:06.

Can I ask again, does she believe the English regions can get the

:30:07.:30:12.

exact same benefits as before? The Right Honourable Lady has asked a

:30:13.:30:16.

number of questions there. I am very clear that we want to ensure that we

:30:17.:30:21.

get that free trade agreement, that comprehensive free trade agreement,

:30:22.:30:24.

which does give our businesses the benefits that they have had as

:30:25.:30:29.

members of the European Union. In relation to local authorities and

:30:30.:30:33.

Maher is my right honourable friend is talking to local Mayers and I had

:30:34.:30:47.

a roundtable of local authorities in Birmingham and we spoke to them so

:30:48.:30:50.

we're listening to voices across the regions. Like millions of others in

:30:51.:30:56.

the United Kingdom, I am proud of the European Union and the

:30:57.:30:59.

contribution the United Kingdom has made to the European Union during my

:31:00.:31:04.

political lifetime, and I am a little sad about today, but I do

:31:05.:31:08.

stand unequivocably with the Prime Minister as she calls for a united

:31:09.:31:13.

approach to a new future. Does my right honourable friend therefore

:31:14.:31:17.

agree with me that in order to make that national endeavour meaningful

:31:18.:31:23.

that her door and the door of her ministers should always be open to

:31:24.:31:30.

all parties in the House and all sides in this discussion because for

:31:31.:31:33.

a new script to be written for the European Union and the United

:31:34.:31:36.

Kingdom 's relationship, it should be written as much by those who

:31:37.:31:39.

value the European Union as those who have campaigned to leave it? I

:31:40.:31:45.

thank my right honourable friend for his question. As I stayed in my

:31:46.:31:50.

statement earlier there will be those who are celebrated and those

:31:51.:31:54.

who are sad and disappointed about the decision that has been taken

:31:55.:31:57.

back can I reassure him that as we move forward and we ensure we are

:31:58.:32:00.

getting the best possible arrangements for the future that we

:32:01.:32:03.

can I do want to listen and ministers do want to listen to all

:32:04.:32:09.

voices in this House, to those who were ardent on both sides of the

:32:10.:32:15.

campaign and as I just indicated we are listening to all parts of the

:32:16.:32:22.

United Kingdom. Today is the day that The Right Honourable member for

:32:23.:32:25.

Maidenhead has become the first Prime Minister in recent history to

:32:26.:32:30.

have to be reminded that Scotland is a country, not a constituency of

:32:31.:32:33.

England. The Prime Minister refused to reply... The Prime Minister

:32:34.:32:42.

refused to reply to the question of whether there had been an economic

:32:43.:32:45.

assessment of the impact of leaving the EU with no deal. Has there been

:32:46.:32:52.

such an assessment? Will she publish it at, and if that hasn't been hard

:32:53.:32:56.

as the former Home Secretary know it is perfectly OK? Can I said The

:32:57.:33:01.

Right Honourable gentleman I am well aware that Scotland is a constituent

:33:02.:33:08.

nation of the United Kingdom. The point is a very simple one and it

:33:09.:33:13.

was made from the bench behind him earlier, which is that different

:33:14.:33:17.

parts of the United Kingdom voted in different ways. Different

:33:18.:33:22.

constituencies voted different ways and Scotland Wales and Northern

:33:23.:33:25.

Ireland voted in different ways. Wales voted to leave Scotland and

:33:26.:33:29.

Northern Ireland voted to remain, but the overall response of the

:33:30.:33:35.

United Kingdom was a vote to leave the European Union and that is what

:33:36.:33:41.

we are putting into place. I say to The Right Honourable gentleman, that

:33:42.:33:44.

we are looking at the arrangements that need to be put in place

:33:45.:33:49.

whatever the impact and whatever the decision that is taken at the end

:33:50.:33:54.

but crucially what I am very clear about, and I am clearing my lesson

:33:55.:33:59.

to -- letter to President Tusk, that we should work to get that

:34:00.:34:02.

comprehensive free trade agreement so we are not in a position of

:34:03.:34:06.

having no deal but we have a deal to the benefit of everyone in the UK,

:34:07.:34:13.

including the people of Scotland. Could I congratulate the Prime

:34:14.:34:16.

Minister on the cool and constructive clarity and conviction

:34:17.:34:20.

she has brought to this momentous period in British politics and her

:34:21.:34:23.

commitment to to negotiate on behalf of everyone in this country, the 48

:34:24.:34:29.

as well as the 52. Does she agree that we must almost -- also double

:34:30.:34:34.

our commitment to domestic reform, the Conservative programme that is

:34:35.:34:37.

so key to skills and infrastructure and our post Brexit prosperity and

:34:38.:34:43.

the union that we want to succeed. She said to Donald Tusk that the

:34:44.:34:46.

task is momentous but it should be beyond us. Does she agree that that

:34:47.:34:51.

applies to the members of the House and direct the shrill voices of

:34:52.:34:56.

nationalism so that we pull together and not a part. My honourable friend

:34:57.:35:04.

is absolutely right. The question that people responded to in the

:35:05.:35:07.

referendum was about leaving the European Union but I believe that

:35:08.:35:09.

the vote to leave was also a vote for change in this country, for

:35:10.:35:14.

wider change in this country. That is why it is so important that we

:35:15.:35:19.

put forward and deliver on our plan for Britain, for the stronger and

:35:20.:35:24.

fairer society, a country that works for everyone, and it is important

:35:25.:35:29.

right now that we do pull together and we do recognise that the task we

:35:30.:35:33.

have ahead is about ensuring we get the right result for the whole of

:35:34.:35:39.

the United Kingdom. I think regardless of how people voted in

:35:40.:35:43.

the referendum I suspect there is an even bigger majority today for all

:35:44.:35:48.

of us to get on and get the best we possibly can. Can I asked the Prime

:35:49.:35:51.

Minister, because many businesses are worried, that in the triggering

:35:52.:35:56.

of Article 50 they feel that the clock is ticking and everything

:35:57.:35:59.

might need to be resolved within two years. She can she reassure those

:36:00.:36:02.

businesses that what we will have end of the two years is the

:36:03.:36:08.

headlines, that there will have to be transitional agreements to ensure

:36:09.:36:10.

the Devil in the detail is explored and this House can discuss about and

:36:11.:36:15.

we get it right for the businesses and the rest of Britain? The Right

:36:16.:36:19.

Honourable lady is right. Of course businesses want the certainty of

:36:20.:36:22.

knowing where they will stand so they can plan for the future. That

:36:23.:36:26.

is why I think two things are important, that we bring this into

:36:27.:36:32.

law through the UK repeal bill so that people know that every role

:36:33.:36:35.

does still apply and they know where they stand. It is also right that it

:36:36.:36:40.

is a tight timetable to get the agreement and there will need to be

:36:41.:36:44.

implementation periods so that we can ensure it is now put into

:36:45.:36:48.

practice in the way that makes practical sense for businesses and

:36:49.:36:55.

governments. Will the Prime Minister reaffirm that the defence of Europe

:36:56.:37:00.

does not depend upon the EU, but upon the deterrent effect of article

:37:01.:37:06.

five of the Nato treaty, which means that an attack on any European Nato

:37:07.:37:11.

member will involve the United States in its defence from the first

:37:12.:37:18.

hour of the first day, but in a spirit of unity will she join with

:37:19.:37:23.

me in congratulating two statesman on opposite sides of the Brexit

:37:24.:37:28.

debate, Sir John Major and Lord Tebbit of Chingford who may not

:37:29.:37:31.

share the same views on Europe but whose share the same birthday today.

:37:32.:37:41.

I am very happy to wish a happy birthday to members of the

:37:42.:37:47.

Conservative Party and do so indeed. Can I say to my honourable friend

:37:48.:37:51.

that he has obviously raised the important issue of Nato, the bedrock

:37:52.:37:55.

of our security and defence under article five lies at the heart of

:37:56.:37:59.

that security and defence. We remain, as I indicated in answer to

:38:00.:38:08.

my honourable friend, the member for Louth and Horncastle earlier, that

:38:09.:38:13.

Nato is that important bedrock of our security and defence and we will

:38:14.:38:16.

continue to contribute to Nato in the way we have done in the past and

:38:17.:38:20.

continue to encourage others to ensure that Nato is able to provide

:38:21.:38:24.

that security into the future as it has done in the past. I would remind

:38:25.:38:31.

the Prime Minister that defence is about more than weapons, it is about

:38:32.:38:35.

values and collective solidarity as well and there are two kinds of

:38:36.:38:39.

futures stemming from the process that is triggered today. The first

:38:40.:38:44.

is that we spend two years desperately trying to secure what we

:38:45.:38:49.

have already come in the secretary of States words, the exact same

:38:50.:38:52.

benefits that we have, while gaining control of immigration, which may

:38:53.:38:56.

make little difference to the numbers, as ministers have

:38:57.:38:59.

suggested, in which case people will ask

:39:00.:39:26.

what is the point? Or there is another future where we crash out

:39:27.:39:30.

without an agreement, defaulting to WTO rules, with all that would mean

:39:31.:39:32.

for industry, agriculture and services. In which case people will

:39:33.:39:34.

ask, what is the price? Which future does she think is the more likely?

:39:35.:39:37.

What's the point? Or what the price? I have to say to The Right

:39:38.:39:40.

Honourable gentleman that I think is throwing the question in the wrong

:39:41.:39:43.

way. When people voted to leave the European Union I believe that we

:39:44.:39:45.

still want to have that good trading relationship with the European Union

:39:46.:39:47.

but what people were overwhelmingly voting for was to be able to know

:39:48.:39:50.

that the UK Government was in control of key decisions which

:39:51.:39:53.

previously had been taken in the EU institutions. Yes, the issue of

:39:54.:39:55.

immigration laws was a part of that and about the spending of our budget

:39:56.:39:59.

was also part of it but also the relationship of UK courts to

:40:00.:40:03.

decisions being taken here in this Parliament and our ability to set

:40:04.:40:07.

our own laws and for those laws to be determined by our courts was

:40:08.:40:10.

underlying the vote that people took. This was not just a question

:40:11.:40:14.

about money, it was about values and the value of that

:40:15.:40:15.

self-determination. Can I join others in commending the

:40:16.:40:23.

Prime Minister on what I think is a clear, concise and very generous

:40:24.:40:28.

approach to negotiations in her statement today and her letter to

:40:29.:40:32.

President Tusk. She will know the reason we have a strong economy

:40:33.:40:36.

currently is partly due to decisions of the previous government and

:40:37.:40:39.

partly because nothing has changed other than the sharp appreciation in

:40:40.:40:45.

our currency. As we going to a period of really enhanced risk and

:40:46.:40:49.

uncertainty for our country, process which I think she will lead us

:40:50.:40:53.

admirably through, does she not agree it is time to start talking

:40:54.:40:57.

facts and sense to the British people rather than rhetoric and

:40:58.:41:01.

ideology? And in particular rejecting the idea that no deal and

:41:02.:41:06.

a reliance on WTO rules would somehow be OK. Like me I'm sure she

:41:07.:41:13.

has seen recent research from the research council that suggests that

:41:14.:41:17.

the WTO deal, despite all the trade deals we want to sign with China and

:41:18.:41:21.

Brazil and India and America would represent a loss of trade of a

:41:22.:41:28.

quarter to the British economy. We cannot do that to this country. I

:41:29.:41:31.

hope she will tell us we are not going to do that to this country.

:41:32.:41:36.

Can we start talking about trusting experts are little bit more? Well my

:41:37.:41:41.

honourable friend is absolutely right that the long-term economic

:41:42.:41:45.

plan which was put in by the Conservative led government and on

:41:46.:41:49.

which we all stood at the last election is the plan that has

:41:50.:41:52.

enabled our economy to have the strength that is necessary and we

:41:53.:41:57.

are pleased that we are able to maintain and build on that strength

:41:58.:42:01.

in our economy. She talks about the WTO arrangements. What I say in the

:42:02.:42:06.

letter to President Tusk is very clear, but if we leave without an

:42:07.:42:09.

agreement, the default position is that we would have to trade on World

:42:10.:42:14.

Trade Organisation terms. In this scenario the UK and EU would of

:42:15.:42:17.

course cope with the change but is not the outcome that either side

:42:18.:42:23.

should seek. We must therefore work hard to avoid that outcome. I'm

:42:24.:42:28.

clear we want the comprehensive free trade agreement with the European

:42:29.:42:30.

Union and that's what we'll be working for. On what is a genuinely

:42:31.:42:36.

historic day for our country can I pay tribute to the Prime Minister

:42:37.:42:41.

and indeed to the Brexit ministers for their determination and

:42:42.:42:44.

dedication to get to this stage today to implement the will of the

:42:45.:42:48.

British people. Would she agree with me that there is one area that we

:42:49.:42:51.

should be able to move forward very quickly on in negotiations and that

:42:52.:42:57.

is getting control of our fishing grounds back. I'd my right

:42:58.:43:08.

honourable friend, the former Environment Secretary, did raise the

:43:09.:43:13.

question of the London fisheries convention which we are looking at

:43:14.:43:16.

and hope to be able to say something soon.

:43:17.:43:18.

As we look at a whole raft in the negotiations that will be taking

:43:19.:43:25.

place, we will be looking at policies that affect agriculture and

:43:26.:43:30.

fisheries here in the United Kingdom and the other issues on Security and

:43:31.:43:35.

crime. But we will be looking particularly at the London fisheries

:43:36.:43:42.

convention in due course. The Prime Minister's letter to President Tusk

:43:43.:43:45.

is not one I ever hope to read but having done so I welcome the eight

:43:46.:43:50.

principles. But does the Prime Minister agree that to bring those

:43:51.:43:54.

to fruition it would be very helpful to include all of us in this

:43:55.:43:59.

process? Because of course even the most ardent pro-European is actually

:44:00.:44:06.

also incredibly ambitious about this country. I'm very happy to give that

:44:07.:44:11.

reassurance to my honourable friend. I think that what I hope we will see

:44:12.:44:17.

and is indicated we will see, people who were previously on both sides of

:44:18.:44:21.

this argument about leaving the European Union actually coming

:44:22.:44:24.

together with that ambition for the future and it's important we take

:44:25.:44:27.

all views into account as we develop that. In her letter and again in her

:44:28.:44:34.

statement today she has made clear that she believes it will be

:44:35.:44:39.

necessary to agree the terms of the divorce alongside the details of our

:44:40.:44:42.

future relationship with the European Union. If the other 27

:44:43.:44:48.

comeback in their reply and say they want to agree the terms of the

:44:49.:44:52.

divorce first including citizenship rights, our liabilities and the

:44:53.:44:58.

issue of orders, particularly Northern Ireland, how will she

:44:59.:45:02.

respond? The question will be that we will go into a negotiation with

:45:03.:45:06.

the European Union about the best way in which we take things forward.

:45:07.:45:09.

I have been putting forward the case, as have other ministers that I

:45:10.:45:15.

think it makes sense for everybody from a pragmatic point of view to

:45:16.:45:19.

ensure that at the end of the two years we have both of these

:45:20.:45:22.

decisions concluded. The withdrawal process and the future relationship.

:45:23.:45:27.

And that's because I don't think it's in anybody's interest for the

:45:28.:45:32.

UK to agree to withdraw to go on to one set of arrangements and then

:45:33.:45:34.

negotiate another set of arrangements which come into place

:45:35.:45:38.

at a later date. I think it makes much better sense for individuals,

:45:39.:45:42.

for businesses and for governments for us to be able to conclude those

:45:43.:45:45.

two parts of the negotiation at the same time. Some members on both

:45:46.:45:53.

sides of this house has been working all their political career to

:45:54.:46:00.

extract the United Kingdom from the European superstate. Sometimes we

:46:01.:46:04.

were isolated, sometimes we were ignored and sometimes we were

:46:05.:46:09.

insulted. But thanks to the British people today we are leaving the

:46:10.:46:14.

European Union. In the past when there has been a major change in our

:46:15.:46:19.

relationship with Europe it has happened through conflict, bloodshed

:46:20.:46:25.

and turmoil. Will the Prime Minister agree with me that the whole country

:46:26.:46:32.

can celebrate the fact that this change is happening peacefully and

:46:33.:46:38.

democratically? I'm very happy to endorse that and I think it is

:46:39.:46:44.

attributed to the way in which we in the UK have approached this issue.

:46:45.:46:49.

Also the way in which our European partners have been willing to

:46:50.:46:52.

approach it and I think will be willing to approach it for the

:46:53.:46:55.

future. I think the eyes of the world will be on us as we go through

:46:56.:46:59.

this negotiation to see precisely how we conduct it and I wanted to be

:47:00.:47:11.

positively and respectfully. After the Brexit deal has been negotiated

:47:12.:47:14.

the European Union Parliament and every other member state in the

:47:15.:47:19.

European Union will have a say on whether to accept the deal. Can the

:47:20.:47:24.

Prime Minister not see that to deny the people of Scotland a say at the

:47:25.:47:28.

same time would show at a contempt for democracy in Scotland? We've

:47:29.:47:36.

been very clear that there will be a vote in this Parliament when we come

:47:37.:47:42.

back with a deal from the European Union, that will be in both houses

:47:43.:47:46.

of this Parliament, it will be before the deal comes into force and

:47:47.:47:50.

we expect that to be undertaken before the European Parliament has

:47:51.:47:54.

had an opportunity to debate and vote on this issue. Of course within

:47:55.:47:59.

this house there are representatives from all parts of the United

:48:00.:48:06.

Kingdom. Does my right honourable friend recalled the words of Francis

:48:07.:48:12.

Drake? There must be a beginning of any great matter, and the continuing

:48:13.:48:20.

to the end until it be thoroughly finished, yield the true glory. May

:48:21.:48:24.

I wish my right honourable friend good luck and good fortune in her

:48:25.:48:28.

negotiations until she comes to true glory and is welcomed back to this

:48:29.:48:39.

house as a 21st-century glory Anah. I think the answer to that is I

:48:40.:48:50.

thank my honourable friend. Mr Speaker, I wonder if the Prime

:48:51.:48:53.

Minister might clear up a bit of confusion about immigration policy

:48:54.:48:59.

on her own side. The Times reports that the International Trade

:49:00.:49:03.

secretary is now arguing for more immigration from countries that are

:49:04.:49:11.

outside the EU in return for striking new trade deals. Does the

:49:12.:49:16.

Prime Minister agree? The government has a clear position on the work

:49:17.:49:19.

that we aren't doing to reduce net migration into this country. Leaving

:49:20.:49:27.

the EU will to introduce rules in relation to people moving from

:49:28.:49:30.

European Union member states into the United Kingdom. But we continue

:49:31.:49:34.

to ensure that we are bearing down on abuse in our immigration system

:49:35.:49:37.

and having the rules that we believe are right to continue to bring the

:49:38.:49:43.

lightest and the best here to the UK. May I thank the Prime Minister

:49:44.:49:53.

for her statement and for being very clear that we are not leaving

:49:54.:49:58.

Europe. For being very clear that we seek to guarantee the rights of EU

:49:59.:50:02.

citizens. And when she says as early as we can, does the Prime Minister

:50:03.:50:06.

agree with me as a fellow European, as early as we can means today? We

:50:07.:50:15.

will be in terms of the negotiation because I want reciprocal rights it

:50:16.:50:22.

is not just about what we say, it will be for the European Union

:50:23.:50:26.

remaining 27 member states to negotiate with us on that. We need

:50:27.:50:28.

that represent a class I am hopeful we can start this at an

:50:29.:50:40.

early stage. Some members for the British people, isn't it important

:50:41.:50:45.

to recognise for the large majority of people in this country are not

:50:46.:50:50.

dogmatically for or against the UK being in the European Union. And if

:50:51.:50:55.

we want to bring the people together as the Prime Minister has said, that

:50:56.:50:59.

should be very much borne in mind. And the other aspect, if during the

:51:00.:51:07.

negotiations which her predecessor undertook there had been some

:51:08.:51:11.

flexibility from the European Union over the free movement of labour, is

:51:12.:51:17.

it not quite likely we would not be debating this issue now? I say to

:51:18.:51:26.

the honourable gentleman that David Cameron put an enormous effort, as

:51:27.:51:31.

did others across government into the negotiations he undertook for

:51:32.:51:34.

the deal he brought to the British people. But the assumption the

:51:35.:51:37.

honourable gentleman has made is that the only issue on which people

:51:38.:51:42.

voted on was free movement. I don't think that's right. I think it was a

:51:43.:51:45.

key issue in that people wanted control of borders. But I think it

:51:46.:51:50.

was about more than that. It was about control of our laws, control

:51:51.:51:55.

of our money and it was about self-determination. I think that was

:51:56.:52:04.

what was driving the decision. Many vegetable growers in South Rebel are

:52:05.:52:08.

reliant on migrant labour and easy access to European markets for their

:52:09.:52:12.

exports. Can my right honourable friend reassure my constituents that

:52:13.:52:19.

which is farming will be a priority in her negotiations? I can assure my

:52:20.:52:27.

honourable friend at the Secretary of State for the Department for food

:52:28.:52:29.

and raw affairs is working very closely with farming communities on

:52:30.:52:35.

the interests that they have for the future and the arrangements that

:52:36.:52:38.

will be put in place once we leave the common agricultural policy. Can

:52:39.:52:44.

I say that I welcome the triggering of Article 50 as it will make

:52:45.:52:51.

possible the democratic socialist future which I and many others have

:52:52.:52:55.

struggled for all our lives. The Prime Minister will be aware that we

:52:56.:53:01.

have a trade deficit with the EU of over ?60 billion a year, another

:53:02.:53:05.

deficit of around ?20 billion per year, and we pay in over ?10 million

:53:06.:53:13.

a year as our contribution, total of ?90 billion, a huge sum roughly

:53:14.:53:17.

equivalent to ?6,000 a year for a family of four. This has not put

:53:18.:53:23.

Britain in a strong position, specifically about trade? I think we

:53:24.:53:28.

are in a good position in relation to trade. I think that's because of

:53:29.:53:34.

the benefits of trade that companies in the European union member states

:53:35.:53:40.

see and I believe that there is a real benefit on both sides in this

:53:41.:53:45.

negotiation to get a good trade deal for both of us. May I wholeheartedly

:53:46.:53:54.

welcomed the Prime Minister's method of looking forward with optimism and

:53:55.:53:58.

hope. Without this kind of view I would certainly have never made it

:53:59.:54:03.

to this place. And today my heart is tinged with a little sadness but we

:54:04.:54:09.

must always aim for better and I welcome wholeheartedly the tone and

:54:10.:54:12.

spirit of the woods today. With this in mind would she agreed that it is

:54:13.:54:16.

crucial that all sectors are treated fairly in future negotiations and in

:54:17.:54:20.

the south-west where food, farming and agriculture are our biggest

:54:21.:54:25.

sector, this sector must not be sold or traded at the expense of other

:54:26.:54:31.

sectors. I say to my honourable friend we are working hard across

:54:32.:54:34.

all government departments to ensure that the interests of different

:54:35.:54:37.

parts of the United Kingdom are taken into account. We recognise the

:54:38.:54:43.

value of certain sectors and jobs varies according to different parts

:54:44.:54:47.

of the United Kingdom and there are parts in the south-west where food

:54:48.:54:52.

and farming are particularly important and I can assure her that

:54:53.:54:56.

we will be looking for a compromise package that will provide a good

:54:57.:55:05.

deal for everybody across the UK. In her letter to Donald Tusk, the Prime

:55:06.:55:09.

Minister says if we leave the European Union without agreement we

:55:10.:55:14.

would have to trade on WTO terms. In security terms of failure to reach

:55:15.:55:18.

agreement would mean our cooperation in the fight against crime and

:55:19.:55:23.

terrorism would be weakened. Is she really saying the security of our

:55:24.:55:26.

country will be traded like a bargaining chip in negotiations?

:55:27.:55:31.

It going to be trading the security of our country but have a

:55:32.:55:37.

relationship with the European Union. -- we are not going to be

:55:38.:55:41.

trading. There are certain parts of the European Union in Justice and

:55:42.:55:43.

home affairs that we are currently members of that leaving the European

:55:44.:55:49.

Union we would not be members of. We need to negotiate what that future

:55:50.:55:53.

membership would be. It is simple and pragmatic but the aim will be to

:55:54.:55:58.

ensure cooperation on these matters. May I welcome the Prime Minister's

:55:59.:56:02.

repeated use of the word pragmatic and her responses? Many of us

:56:03.:56:06.

believe that this country is at its very best when we are pragmatic

:56:07.:56:10.

rather than ideological. She mentioned the importance of

:56:11.:56:13.

cooperation in justice and home affairs. Was she also accept that

:56:14.:56:18.

cooperation in other aspects of judicial and legal services is also

:56:19.:56:24.

pretty important to underpin her priority with the financial services

:56:25.:56:27.

sector, so critical to any negotiation. My honourable friend is

:56:28.:56:31.

very right. The strength that our legal services have is an important

:56:32.:56:38.

part of the relationship and that is why the Lord Chancellor has been

:56:39.:56:41.

working with the judiciary to look at exactly those issues and how we

:56:42.:56:46.

can take those for to ensure the right level of cooperation the

:56:47.:56:52.

future. I thank the Prime Minister for a band site of the statement.

:56:53.:56:56.

She refers to the British spirit, and to a fairer and united Britain.

:56:57.:57:01.

But fairness is just that. The proper respect for all people from

:57:02.:57:08.

all parts of the islands. Not just taking into account specific

:57:09.:57:13.

incidents of nations and regions. Not just consulting about which

:57:14.:57:16.

powers should stay in Westminster and which should be whittled down as

:57:17.:57:21.

she drives through her extreme version of Brexit. As we leave the

:57:22.:57:25.

European Union, they must be a better way than just her way. He

:57:26.:57:34.

refers to my vision for Brexit. As I have made very clear, in this House

:57:35.:57:39.

this afternoon and elsewhere, we want to get that combines a free

:57:40.:57:43.

trade agreement, we want good security cooperation and good

:57:44.:57:46.

security on justice and home affairs matters. That is what is in the

:57:47.:57:51.

letter to President Task. I do not see that as an extreme view, I see

:57:52.:57:56.

that as a good deal for the United Kingdom. -- President Tusk. May I

:57:57.:58:00.

congratulate my right honourable friend on the very reasonable

:58:01.:58:04.

underlying tone in her letter to President Tusk today. My honourable

:58:05.:58:08.

friend will be aware that this is a day I have campaigned for 426 years.

:58:09.:58:14.

Will she with me that the dividend of restoring democracy to our

:58:15.:58:18.

institutions, in stopping a huge fiscal transfer to the EU and the

:58:19.:58:22.

potential for international trade deals are prizes that all across our

:58:23.:58:28.

country will benefit from in years to come. As I indicated earlier, I

:58:29.:58:35.

know that there are honourable honourable friend and others who

:58:36.:58:42.

have wanted this for a long time and he's absolutely right. What will

:58:43.:58:47.

delay the vote -- what underlay the vote was the feeling that the United

:58:48.:58:51.

Kingdom needed to have control of its budget and laws, control of

:58:52.:58:55.

immigration rules, and not just simply be subject to decisions taken

:58:56.:59:04.

in the EU. I am proud to be a member of the European Parliament, one of

:59:05.:59:10.

the first elected members in 1979 along with Boris Johnson's father,

:59:11.:59:13.

who I don't think shares the same views as Boris any longer. She has

:59:14.:59:20.

spoken about the role of the European Parliament this morning and

:59:21.:59:24.

I'm sure she will agree that it is one of three important institutions

:59:25.:59:28.

with whom negotiations will take place. At the end the European

:59:29.:59:32.

Parliament has the power of veto. And that is a very important power.

:59:33.:59:38.

-- at the end of the day, the European Parliament has. Is she

:59:39.:59:43.

agreeing that if the European Parliament invited her, as they do

:59:44.:59:47.

heads of state, to appear before the parliament to give her views and

:59:48.:59:51.

answer some of their questions, that she would agree to do so? The

:59:52.:59:55.

honourable lady is absolutely right, the European Parliament will play an

:59:56.:59:59.

important role in this. Obviously the structure of the negotiations

:00:00.:00:03.

that has been established is that the key negotiator will be the

:00:04.:00:05.

European Commission operating under the mandate of the EU Council, but

:00:06.:00:10.

the arrangements are made for interaction with the European

:00:11.:00:13.

Parliament as part of that as well. I know that heads of government are

:00:14.:00:21.

from time to time invited to address the European Parliament and were

:00:22.:00:24.

such an invitation to come, I would look at it very seriously. This is

:00:25.:00:31.

indeed a momentous day. On the half of all house, may I pass on our

:00:32.:00:36.

congratulations to our honourable friend the Member for Morley and

:00:37.:00:38.

Outwood on the birth of a baby boy this morning, Clifford George. The

:00:39.:00:46.

Prime Minister has spoken about more decision-making powers for the

:00:47.:00:49.

devolved assemblies. With that in mind, is now not the time to

:00:50.:00:56.

turbo-charge devolved powers to Yorkshire and the North and to put

:00:57.:00:59.

real backing into the northern powerhouse? I would like to

:01:00.:01:06.

congratulate the honourable member for Morley and Outwood on that great

:01:07.:01:14.

news. I would like to thank another honourable member who I think at

:01:15.:01:22.

some hand in the matter. LAUGHTER. WELL, HE HAD A ROLE, ANYWAY! . Thank

:01:23.:01:31.

you, Mr Speaker, I am glad I did not have to give clarification on your

:01:32.:01:36.

statement. I would like to thank both my honourable friend is on the

:01:37.:01:39.

birth of Clifford George this morning. I'm sure the whole house

:01:40.:01:42.

will send their best wishes to mother and father and to their baby

:01:43.:01:50.

son. It is of course, as others have indicated, important that we take

:01:51.:01:57.

consideration of the views of other part of United Kingdom. We an

:01:58.:02:03.

important deal around the country, devolution deals, with directly

:02:04.:02:08.

elected mayor is coming into place on the 4th of May. -- mayors. We

:02:09.:02:15.

will be looking to see how we can further boost the economy is around

:02:16.:02:18.

the whole of the United Kingdom, including the northern powerhouse

:02:19.:02:24.

and the Midlands engine. I was in Birmingham yesterday to discuss

:02:25.:02:30.

exactly that. I think it is time to hear Mr Phil Boswell from his feet.

:02:31.:02:35.

Having recently come from a Public Accounts Committee session about

:02:36.:02:42.

caring for people with learning difficulties, can the Prime Minister

:02:43.:02:46.

advise when the National Health Service will start receiving its

:02:47.:02:50.

extra ?350 million a week? I am pleased to say that of course we are

:02:51.:02:55.

putting more funding into the NHS and putting extra funding into

:02:56.:02:59.

social care as my right honourable friend the Chancellor announced in

:03:00.:03:02.

the budget. Decisions about how we spend our budget in the future, once

:03:03.:03:08.

we have completed this negotiation and left the European Union, will be

:03:09.:03:11.

decisions to be taken here in the United Kingdom. Mr Speaker, in less

:03:12.:03:19.

than half an hour, the Italian Foreign Secretary will be visiting

:03:20.:03:24.

Parliament to sign the book of condolence and lay some flowers on

:03:25.:03:29.

behalf of the Republic of Italy. Mr Speaker, can I warmly commend the

:03:30.:03:33.

Prime Minister's words in her statement. The first time that she

:03:34.:03:37.

said this to the House. Those other words that say, I will represent

:03:38.:03:42.

every person in the whole United Kingdom and yes, those EU nationals

:03:43.:03:46.

who have made this country their home. That includes my parents, my

:03:47.:03:50.

sister, some of my constituents and 3 million other EU nationals. I

:03:51.:03:55.

would like to thank the Prime Minister for using those warm words.

:03:56.:04:02.

Today marks a coming of age for her. She is showing this House and the

:04:03.:04:06.

country that she is the right leader at this moment is time for the

:04:07.:04:13.

country. I thank my honourable friend for his remarks. He has taken

:04:14.:04:18.

a particular interest in the position of EU citizens living here

:04:19.:04:21.

in the United Kingdom and I'm pleased to confirm that as I

:04:22.:04:24.

negotiate, I will be negotiating with everyone in the Kingdom

:04:25.:04:28.

including those EU citizens, and I have repeated in the letter to

:04:29.:04:35.

President Tusk, I hope will be able to at this issue of rights of

:04:36.:04:41.

citizens living here at an early stage of the negotiation. May I

:04:42.:04:45.

remind the Prime Minister that at one stage both she and I were

:04:46.:04:48.

remainders. I remain very much a Remainer. I am a passionate European

:04:49.:04:55.

and believe that she should take careful note that a large number of

:04:56.:05:00.

people this country valued European citizenship. Why? Because it

:05:01.:05:04.

delivered over many years peace, prosperity and security. Will she

:05:05.:05:09.

assure the House that those priorities will be maintained in all

:05:10.:05:14.

the negotiations going forward? I will suddenly say to the honourable

:05:15.:05:17.

gentleman that of course it is possible to be a passionate European

:05:18.:05:21.

without believing that the UK should be a member of the European Union.

:05:22.:05:26.

This is a difference in terms of the values that we share, working

:05:27.:05:30.

together cooperatively across Europe on the issues that he raises. And

:05:31.:05:34.

that is important. I believe, as these benches do, that the

:05:35.:05:38.

determinant for security and defence across Europe has been Nato. We

:05:39.:05:41.

continue to play a part in Nato but I recognise that those on the

:05:42.:05:49.

continent of Europe, that there are those on the continent reveal that

:05:50.:05:52.

the EU has been part of that process of delivering security and peace in

:05:53.:05:55.

the future. I want to ensure that we continue to work together so that we

:05:56.:05:58.

continue to see peace and security across our European continent. I

:05:59.:06:04.

think I will call the fellow wearing the Elgar tie. Although she did

:06:05.:06:12.

indeed support the Remainer side during the EU referendum campaign

:06:13.:06:18.

last year, nevertheless the Prime Minister has demonstrated

:06:19.:06:21.

outstanding leadership to our country in promoting the will of the

:06:22.:06:30.

British people. On this glorious day, recalling Edward Elgar, having

:06:31.:06:33.

campaigned to leave the common market myself in 1975, may I say to

:06:34.:06:38.

my old friend how much I salute her determination to unite the country

:06:39.:06:44.

in securing the very best deal, not only for the United Kingdom but for

:06:45.:06:48.

our European Parliament as well. I thank my honourable friend for his

:06:49.:06:51.

remarks and I know that he has been campaigning long and hard on this

:06:52.:06:55.

issue over the years. I think it is right that we come together now and

:06:56.:06:58.

get the best possible deal for the UK. I also want to put on record how

:06:59.:07:05.

proud I am of what we have achieved as members of the European Union,

:07:06.:07:08.

not just in terms of security and economy, but peace between our

:07:09.:07:13.

nations, which twice in the last century have been at war. We know

:07:14.:07:19.

there is more than one way to Brexit in the next two years will clearly

:07:20.:07:22.

be a big debate about the trade-offs we need to make. We know the Prime

:07:23.:07:28.

Minister wishes to ensure the future prosperity of Britain. So far, there

:07:29.:07:33.

have been no economic assessments of the government's plans. With the

:07:34.:07:35.

Prime Minister confirm that an economic assessment will be

:07:36.:07:38.

published with the final deal and that it will compare the outcomes

:07:39.:07:44.

expected, both with what we have now as with the prospect of no deal? The

:07:45.:07:49.

honourable lady ask me to make a comparison of what we have now. Of

:07:50.:07:54.

course we have decided to leave the European Union and therefore to

:07:55.:07:57.

change our relationship with the European Union. But we will make

:07:58.:08:00.

sure that when it comes to the vote in parliament that Parliament has

:08:01.:08:12.

the necessary information. This is a day for which neither I nor the vast

:08:13.:08:15.

majority of my constituents wanted to see but may I commend the Prime

:08:16.:08:18.

Minister for her statement and tone in a letter to President. I fully

:08:19.:08:23.

support the Prime Minister's objective in delivering a conference

:08:24.:08:26.

of free trade deal on goods and services with the EU and let's be

:08:27.:08:29.

clear, no deal would be a bad deal. What more can this House do to help

:08:30.:08:34.

deliver her aims in the interests of both Britain and the European Union?

:08:35.:08:42.

I think the task that this House will have of putting through

:08:43.:08:46.

necessary legislation, great repeal Bill and other legislation to be put

:08:47.:08:50.

through, will of course be an important part of that process of

:08:51.:08:52.

being able to deliver on the deal that we need at the end of this

:08:53.:08:59.

negotiation that we are entering into. I have every confidence that

:09:00.:09:03.

members from all parts of the House and all sides of the argument in the

:09:04.:09:08.

past will come together and will ensure that we work together to get

:09:09.:09:17.

the best possible deal. With a maximum now of 72 weeks to negotiate

:09:18.:09:22.

the UK EU trade deal, the future for Scotland is clear. It is

:09:23.:09:25.

independence in Europe or go it alone with Westminster. As the

:09:26.:09:30.

government thought of rejoining EFTA or will she go it alone and the

:09:31.:09:40.

original entity on its own, shared only with the Gulf of Guinea and

:09:41.:09:43.

some other countries. Because that is where she is taking the United

:09:44.:09:50.

Kingdom. I said right from the beginning that I believe that, given

:09:51.:09:54.

the position of the United Kingdom, we want to negotiate a deal that is

:09:55.:09:58.

right for the United Kingdom. That means not just ticking off the shelf

:09:59.:10:02.

an arrangement that other countries have, but actually asking what works

:10:03.:10:05.

for the UK and EU, given the relationship that we have that,

:10:06.:10:09.

given that we have been members of the European Union, given the size

:10:10.:10:12.

of our economy and given the benefits to us and the European

:10:13.:10:15.

Union of getting such a free trade deal.

:10:16.:10:19.

Can I warmly welcome the tone of the Prime Minister's letter to President

:10:20.:10:29.

Tusk and wish her every success in achieving free and frictionless

:10:30.:10:35.

trade, but when it comes to returning sovereignty to this

:10:36.:10:38.

parliament, will she undertake that she will limit entry Henry VIII

:10:39.:10:46.

powers and allow MPs to vote on legislation that will affect the

:10:47.:10:52.

future of their people? -- constituents? We will try to ensure

:10:53.:10:59.

we have the best way of putting legislation through the size to

:11:00.:11:04.

enable debate to take place. As we come to debates on the Great Repeal

:11:05.:11:08.

Bill that will be part of discussions but I also ask

:11:09.:11:12.

honourable members to recognise the many changes that need to take place

:11:13.:11:18.

that our technical changes that are not about policy but are necessary

:11:19.:11:23.

because of the intertwining of our legislation that if we are to ensure

:11:24.:11:29.

that when we come to leaving we can have that clean break and we have

:11:30.:11:32.

dealt with all the legislative consequences. I'm sure when the

:11:33.:11:39.

Prime Minister went to the polling station last June and cast her vote

:11:40.:11:44.

for Remain, she had at the forefront of her mind stability for British

:11:45.:11:48.

industry. In the recent bye election she wrote to thousands of my

:11:49.:11:53.

constituents highlighting the plan she said her party would have

:11:54.:12:00.

diverse ramekin industry. The ceramic factories in Stoke-on-Trent

:12:01.:12:02.

make the best pottery in the world but they need stability to reach

:12:03.:12:08.

their great targets, so can the Prime Minister confirm that our

:12:09.:12:13.

future relationship with the single market and the Customs Union will

:12:14.:12:18.

deliver exactly the same benefits as it does so when I return to

:12:19.:12:23.

Stoke-on-Trent I can give my major employers the confidence they need?

:12:24.:12:29.

The answer I give him will be the answer I have given the wrote the

:12:30.:12:35.

statement and in the past. We will be working for that comprehensive

:12:36.:12:39.

free trade agreement to allow the distance to trade freely with the

:12:40.:12:43.

European single market and in goods and services. That is what we want

:12:44.:12:49.

to achieve. I recognised the need for a business to have as much

:12:50.:12:55.

certainty as soon as possible. One thing in the latter which businesses

:12:56.:13:00.

have been asking for is the concept of the implementation period so they

:13:01.:13:05.

can put new arrangements in place and have notification of that, and

:13:06.:13:09.

that is what I suggested to President Tusk we should agree is a

:13:10.:13:16.

principle we abide by. A Canterbury knight, Sir Julian Brazier. In

:13:17.:13:22.

strongly welcoming my honourable friend's statement, could I welcome

:13:23.:13:28.

what she said about remaining good Europeans and will she agreed the

:13:29.:13:33.

fact we are committed to Nato and its 2%, we have troops deploying to

:13:34.:13:38.

neighbours in battle and we have troops fighting Daesh, shows just

:13:39.:13:45.

what a good European country we are? He makes an important point. It

:13:46.:13:50.

isn't about what we say but what we do and what we are doing in Nato,

:13:51.:13:56.

our commitments to eastern European allies and our work to counter Daesh

:13:57.:14:03.

are not just the military work but also our cooperation between

:14:04.:14:08.

intelligence services across Europe, all important symbols of our

:14:09.:14:12.

commitment to ensure we play our part in maintaining security in

:14:13.:14:18.

Europe. The Prime Minister stated she will not provide a running

:14:19.:14:23.

commentary on negotiations. Earlier this week in the Financial Times, it

:14:24.:14:27.

was stated that the unity of the 27th will be stronger aged on full

:14:28.:14:33.

transparency and debate, so what does it say about this so-called

:14:34.:14:38.

team approached that members of this Parliament and devolved governments

:14:39.:14:42.

across these islands are set to hear more about the outcome of those

:14:43.:14:48.

talks then those on -- from those on the other side of the negotiating

:14:49.:14:54.

table than from this Government? What I have said clearly is when we

:14:55.:14:59.

are able to provide clarity as we have until now, we will do so, but

:15:00.:15:07.

it is the case that if we're going to get the best deal for the UK, we

:15:08.:15:13.

should not reveal every detail of our hand at every stage in the

:15:14.:15:19.

negotiations. We will be looking to ensure that clarity and information

:15:20.:15:25.

are available where appropriate. Wyatts seeking to protect and

:15:26.:15:30.

enhance workers' writes, with the Prime Minister also seized the

:15:31.:15:35.

opportunity of ordered by leaving the EU for greater sectoral

:15:36.:15:39.

regulation, so businesses can create the prosperity we all need and on

:15:40.:15:47.

which our public services rely? At the point we leave, the key will be

:15:48.:15:54.

brought into UK law, to provide certainty but then it will be up to

:15:55.:15:59.

the UK Parliament to determine what regulations remain in place and what

:16:00.:16:08.

deregulation should take place? In her letter to Donald Tusk, the Prime

:16:09.:16:13.

Minister refers to the treaty of the EU and the atomic energy treaty. She

:16:14.:16:19.

makes no reference to the European economic area agreement which

:16:20.:16:25.

underpins our membership of the single market. When and how does the

:16:26.:16:29.

Prime Minister intend to withdraw us from the EEA? Membership of the EEA

:16:30.:16:37.

is linked to our member shot of the EU and start notification of leaving

:16:38.:16:52.

the EU covers also the EEA. Can I warmly congratulate my right

:16:53.:16:56.

honourable friend for carrying out the wishes of the majority of my

:16:57.:17:01.

constituents in Bury, Ramsbottom and Tottenham by triggering Article 50?

:17:02.:17:09.

Does she agree that while inevitably after 40 years of membership there

:17:10.:17:14.

could be difficult negotiations ahead, what matters is the big

:17:15.:17:19.

picture, but we are taking back control for this Parliament, control

:17:20.:17:24.

of our borders and of our contributions? There will be

:17:25.:17:32.

detailed negotiations but we must always remain and keep as our vision

:17:33.:17:37.

that big picture as he describes it that this is about control of our

:17:38.:17:41.

laws, borders and budgets, that is what people voted for. Michel

:17:42.:17:52.

Barnier, who will be involved in negotiations, has put Northern

:17:53.:17:56.

Ireland top of his agenda because he was involved in the negotiations to

:17:57.:18:00.

achieve a special European programme. Can the Prime Minister

:18:01.:18:07.

outlined how she will ensure the protections of our fragile economy

:18:08.:18:11.

in Northern Ireland to ensure there is Tara free access and continued

:18:12.:18:14.

access to the single European market which is vital to the growing

:18:15.:18:22.

economy on the island of Ireland? In overall terms negotiating a

:18:23.:18:28.

comprehensive free trade agreement with what we want to achieve, are

:18:29.:18:34.

free trade with the European single market, will cover the whole of the

:18:35.:18:39.

UK including Northern Ireland, but we are conscious because of the land

:18:40.:18:43.

border with the Republic that we have to look carefully at customs

:18:44.:18:49.

arrangements. We want to be have trade agreements with other

:18:50.:18:54.

countries around the world, that has implications in relation to the

:18:55.:18:58.

Customs Union that we are working with the Irish government to ensure

:18:59.:19:02.

arrangements can be put in place to maintain that the economy in

:19:03.:19:07.

Northern Ireland, and as the Taoiseach and others have said, we

:19:08.:19:10.

do not see a return to the borders of the past. May I commend my right

:19:11.:19:20.

honourable friend on the comments she made regarding the need for all

:19:21.:19:25.

of us to work together to secure the best possible need for our country

:19:26.:19:31.

at this momentous time? She will be aware of the decision by the Supreme

:19:32.:19:36.

Court, the unanimous decision that matters relating to relations with

:19:37.:19:40.

the EU are to be dealt with exclusively by the UK Government and

:19:41.:19:47.

UK Parliament and not a matter for the devolved in situations. Given

:19:48.:19:53.

that as a country we regularly speak to the rest of the world about the

:19:54.:19:57.

need to respect the rule of law, which she agree with me that it is

:19:58.:20:02.

oughtn't that politicians from all four nations of our country

:20:03.:20:11.

themselves respect the rule of law? I'm grateful to my honourable

:20:12.:20:16.

friend. It is indeed the case that the Supreme Court found there would

:20:17.:20:21.

be no veto for the devolved administrations but it is

:20:22.:20:24.

interesting that I understand we have an argument from the SNP that a

:20:25.:20:29.

decision to remain in the EU either Scottish voters should be dealt

:20:30.:20:35.

within a different way from the overall result of the referendum. In

:20:36.:20:42.

2014 when we had the referendum on membership of the UK in Scotland,

:20:43.:20:48.

the SNP argued the opposite, that the result as a whole was the only

:20:49.:20:54.

one that counted and if there were parts of Scotland like Orkney and

:20:55.:20:58.

Shetland who voted differently, that should not be taken into account.

:20:59.:21:05.

The Prime Minister has rightly spoken of in the day. Could she say

:21:06.:21:10.

specifically how she will respect and give voice to those people who

:21:11.:21:17.

have extreme anxiety and businesses about the direction the country is

:21:18.:21:24.

now embarked? We do want to give certainty to businesses and others

:21:25.:21:29.

as soon as possible on the arrangements that will be put in

:21:30.:21:34.

place but this will be a negotiation and there will be uncertainty, and

:21:35.:21:38.

we cannot take that uncertainty completely away, but we can't give

:21:39.:21:43.

clarity at stages where we are able to do so, as we have been in the

:21:44.:21:51.

last few months. I welcome the approach my right honourable friend

:21:52.:21:54.

is taking to secure a positive outcome. Does she agree that Brexit

:21:55.:22:02.

is a spur to action to tackle long-standing economic challenges

:22:03.:22:05.

about productivity, skills and export performance, and will then

:22:06.:22:11.

modern industrial strategy help in achieving these objectives? The vote

:22:12.:22:18.

was not just about leaving the EU but changing the way the country

:22:19.:22:22.

works for ever, getting that stronger economy, ensuring everyone

:22:23.:22:27.

plays by the same rules, ensuring it works for everyone and we see growth

:22:28.:22:34.

in every part of the UK, it is an important part of our plan for

:22:35.:22:39.

Britain and dark industrial strategy is at the heart of delivering that.

:22:40.:22:47.

Could the Prime Minister explain why in her long and detailed letter to

:22:48.:22:53.

President Tusk, which clearly took weeks to prepare, she somehow forgot

:22:54.:22:59.

to mention Gibraltar? Is it a case of out of sight, out of mind? We're

:23:00.:23:08.

absolutely steadfast in our support of Gibraltar and its people and the

:23:09.:23:11.

economy. Our position has not changed. We have been firm and our

:23:12.:23:17.

commitment to never enter arrangements under which the people

:23:18.:23:21.

of Gibraltar would pass to sovereignty of another state against

:23:22.:23:26.

their wishes, or enter into negotiations with which they are not

:23:27.:23:31.

content? The letters of negotiation in relation to our with drawing,

:23:32.:23:38.

Gibraltar is not a separate member of the EU nor is it part of the UK

:23:39.:23:45.

with reference to EU law but it is covered by our exit negotiations, we

:23:46.:23:50.

are committed to involving them and have been having regular discussions

:23:51.:23:55.

with the Government of Gibraltar and will work with them for the future.

:23:56.:24:02.

As a representative of a give the constituency which voted

:24:03.:24:06.

overwhelmingly to leave, I would like to congratulate the Prime

:24:07.:24:11.

Minister on her leadership on this historic day. Much of my beautiful

:24:12.:24:19.

constituency is rural farmland and the local farmland would like

:24:20.:24:23.

reassurance that their livelihoods will be protected as we leave the

:24:24.:24:27.

EU. Can my right honourable friend confirm she will do all she can to

:24:28.:24:32.

support British farming in the process of these negotiations? We

:24:33.:24:40.

have already been able to give some reassurance to farmers by the

:24:41.:24:43.

commitment we have in terms of funding until 2020, then we need to

:24:44.:24:49.

look at arrangements post the UK leaving the EU, but I can assure my

:24:50.:24:57.

honourable friend that the Secretary of State for the environment, Food

:24:58.:25:00.

and Rural Affairs is working with farmers in all parts of the UK to

:25:01.:25:04.

look at arrangements for the best way ahead. There is a big economic

:25:05.:25:13.

challenge ahead. Does the Prime Minister recognised that securing

:25:14.:25:16.

anything like the barrier free access to the single market will

:25:17.:25:22.

require some compromise to be found on the question of free movement of

:25:23.:25:23.

people? The decision was taken on the 23rd

:25:24.:25:31.

of June in relation to free movement was that it should be the free

:25:32.:25:34.

government -- UK Government that determines the free migration of

:25:35.:25:39.

people from the European Union to the United Kingdom. We will be

:25:40.:25:43.

pitching for proposals to this House in due course as to what the

:25:44.:25:46.

arrangements for the future should be but I have every confidence,

:25:47.:25:49.

because we are not going to stop immigration from the European Union

:25:50.:25:52.

coming into the United Kingdom, we recognise there will still be a need

:25:53.:25:59.

for people to come from the EU into the United Kingdom. But the

:26:00.:26:01.

important point will be that the rules governing that will be

:26:02.:26:06.

determined by the UK Government. Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister is right

:26:07.:26:12.

that the UK is leaving the institutions of the European Union,

:26:13.:26:17.

not Europe itself. She's also to talk of this country as global

:26:18.:26:21.

Britain. This nation is one of the world's leading aviation powers and

:26:22.:26:27.

a trading nation. Can I seek assurances that the importance of

:26:28.:26:31.

aviation, as we increasingly become a conduit between the rest of the

:26:32.:26:37.

world and Europe, will be paramount. Obviously the arrangements for

:26:38.:26:40.

aviation will be a key element of the negotiations as we take them

:26:41.:26:46.

forward. Both in terms of ensuring that we see no disruption to the

:26:47.:26:50.

aviation arrangements, but they are still able to continue to fly

:26:51.:26:54.

between the UK and other parts of the European Union in the way that

:26:55.:26:58.

they have done here and elsewhere in the world. But we recognise the

:26:59.:27:01.

importance of our aviation industry not just in terms of the airlines

:27:02.:27:05.

themselves and the work that they do, and our airports, but also the

:27:06.:27:11.

manufacturing that we have here in relation to the aviation industries

:27:12.:27:15.

is also important. There must be some relief from the toil of being a

:27:16.:27:24.

whip. The Prime Minister talked grandly about self-determination.

:27:25.:27:30.

Why is she so determined to not allow the Scottish people to

:27:31.:27:40.

exercise that very right? As I have said before, I think now is not the

:27:41.:27:43.

time to be talking about a second independence referendum and I would

:27:44.:27:45.

simply remind the honourable gentleman that in 2014 the SNP were

:27:46.:27:51.

clear that that was a once-in-a-lifetime vote. This is

:27:52.:28:01.

truly a red white and blue letter day. Shut up. It represents all of

:28:02.:28:09.

the constituent parts of United Kingdom including Scotland. Sending

:28:10.:28:17.

an ambassador was a nice touch, Brown Minister. In the letter you

:28:18.:28:21.

talk about the Brexit plans, the EU citizens living in the UK and the

:28:22.:28:25.

British citizens including Scots who live and work in other parts of the

:28:26.:28:29.

European Union. Another Prime Minister has said she will not give

:28:30.:28:33.

a running commentary on the negotiations but will she give an

:28:34.:28:35.

assurance that once a deal is reached, as far as the expats, she

:28:36.:28:43.

will inform them to ease the anxiety they are currently feeling. The

:28:44.:28:49.

point of trying to achieve a deal at an early stage is precisely so we

:28:50.:28:53.

can tell people the nature of that deal. So that they can have the

:28:54.:28:56.

reassurance and will not have to worry about their future. On days

:28:57.:29:02.

such as this, the prime ministers should speak for the whole country.

:29:03.:29:06.

She has chosen to speak for little more than half. Beyond empty

:29:07.:29:11.

rhetoric, what reassurances can she give to the 70% of my constituents

:29:12.:29:15.

who voted to remain and the one in six who are citizens of other EU

:29:16.:29:19.

countries who have real fears for their livelihoods, their businesses

:29:20.:29:27.

and their security? On the issue of EU citizens, as I have just

:29:28.:29:33.

indicated in answer to my right honourable friend, the question of

:29:34.:29:36.

the status of EU citizens living here and citizens living in the

:29:37.:29:41.

member states will be one that we hope to address at early stages of

:29:42.:29:44.

the negotiations so that we can give people that security and assurance

:29:45.:29:48.

of their future. And of course for businesses I recognise there will be

:29:49.:29:50.

a degree of uncertainty until the future arrangement has been

:29:51.:29:55.

concluded and they know what the future arrangement is going to be.

:29:56.:29:59.

We can give them, I hope, certainty that there will be able mentation

:30:00.:30:02.

periods so that there will not be a cliff edge for them but what they

:30:03.:30:05.

can be assured of is that we are going to try to ensure that we get

:30:06.:30:08.

the most brands of free trade deal possible. -- comprehensive free

:30:09.:30:15.

trade deal. Many people voted to leave the EU because they felt

:30:16.:30:18.

disengaged with politics and the institutions did not work with them.

:30:19.:30:24.

Over the next 18 months will the Prime Minister work to ensure that

:30:25.:30:27.

we retain a place in the world but also to deliver on our domestic

:30:28.:30:32.

agenda to ensure that people feel that our government is working for

:30:33.:30:37.

them? My my honourable friend makes an important point which is that

:30:38.:30:46.

holder will be important negotiations, it is important that

:30:47.:30:49.

the government will be putting together a domestic agenda for a

:30:50.:30:53.

stronger economy and fairer society, and that global outlook for the

:30:54.:30:57.

United Kingdom. The work we will be doing around the world will be an

:30:58.:31:06.

important part of that. Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister told us that

:31:07.:31:12.

Brexit meant Brexit. But now we see the Scottish Parliament voting for a

:31:13.:31:15.

second Scottish referendum will the Prime Minister realise and

:31:16.:31:24.

acknowledge that Scotref means Scotref and agreed to an application

:31:25.:31:29.

for a section 30. If we're going to make a success of Brexit, we need to

:31:30.:31:33.

pull together at this time and make sure we're getting the best possible

:31:34.:31:37.

deal for the United Kingdom. Scotland voted in September 2014 to

:31:38.:31:44.

remain a member the United Kingdom. I will draw members to my

:31:45.:31:49.

declaration of interest. I welcome the Prime Minister's statement and

:31:50.:31:54.

the tone, embracing the whole of United Kingdom, and emphasis on

:31:55.:31:59.

pursuing a Brexit that works for everyone. Can I seek reassurances

:32:00.:32:03.

that the agriculture and environment, so closely linked, will

:32:04.:32:08.

not become a sacrificial lamb in any future negotiations going forward,

:32:09.:32:13.

any future trade negotiations. We will in our trade negotiations with

:32:14.:32:16.

the European Union, but also with others around the world, we will be

:32:17.:32:21.

very conscious of the need to ensure that we respect the requirements

:32:22.:32:26.

both for the environment and also for our agriculture, food and

:32:27.:32:30.

farming industry here in the United Kingdom. I ensure my honourable

:32:31.:32:34.

friend that we will continue to maintain our commitment to both

:32:35.:32:40.

those issues. Can I congratulate the Prime Minister on her stamina in

:32:41.:32:44.

being at the dispatch box for two and a half hours. And that is only

:32:45.:32:51.

halfway through. At least at the home affairs committee we give a

:32:52.:32:54.

chair to sit down throughout the sessions. Anyway, the first of all

:32:55.:32:57.

congratulate her congratulate her on her appointment for a new national

:32:58.:33:06.

security adviser. Can I pressed her on the issue of policing and

:33:07.:33:10.

security issues? I know there are headlines in the letter to Donald

:33:11.:33:15.

Tusk but throughout these negotiations, will we remain a full

:33:16.:33:19.

member of Europol and will we have access to the criminal databases of

:33:20.:33:23.

the EU? And is that one of her ambitions, to retain that access

:33:24.:33:29.

when we leave the EU? While we remain a member of the European

:33:30.:33:32.

Union we will continue to have access and membership arrangements

:33:33.:33:36.

that we currently have for the various issues that the honourable

:33:37.:33:42.

gentleman the to. It will certainly be my expectation that we will be

:33:43.:33:44.

looking to negotiate continued access for information, in various

:33:45.:33:52.

ways like which we are currently sharing information with the

:33:53.:33:55.

European Union. That is not just in our interests, it is in the

:33:56.:33:58.

interests of the European Union. This is a great day for our country.

:33:59.:34:02.

As we take back full control of our national destiny. Historically, we

:34:03.:34:11.

have been a free trading nation am outward looking with a global

:34:12.:34:14.

perspective. Does the Brown Minister agree that that which is historic in

:34:15.:34:21.

our national DNA will stand us in good stead as we are going through

:34:22.:34:25.

these critical negotiations. -- does the Prime Minister. I absolutely

:34:26.:34:30.

agree and that is why I am optimistic and ambitious for our

:34:31.:34:33.

future. I think that outward looking spirit that we have always had will

:34:34.:34:38.

stand us in good stead. Can the Prime Minister confirm her

:34:39.:34:42.

understanding of what will need to happen on the European side to

:34:43.:34:47.

ratify the New Deal with the UK which we all want to see? Will there

:34:48.:34:51.

be a decision as part of the exit negotiations by the Council of

:34:52.:34:54.

Ministers and the commission or will it be something that requires

:34:55.:34:57.

ratification by every single remaining EU member state, sometimes

:34:58.:35:03.

including regional parliaments? Because clearly that could cause

:35:04.:35:06.

absurdity of one member state or poses the terms that we have

:35:07.:35:11.

negotiated for our exit. The extent to which any part of the deal

:35:12.:35:16.

requires full ratification from every single member state and from

:35:17.:35:19.

every constituent part of the European Union will vary according

:35:20.:35:25.

to the nation of the asset of the deal. Overall, it will be necessary

:35:26.:35:33.

for members of Parliament to ratify. For those of us who campaigned and

:35:34.:35:37.

voted for Brexit, not just last year but also in 1975, this is indeed a

:35:38.:35:44.

great day and one for celebration. 70% of my Cleethorpes constituents

:35:45.:35:50.

and in neighbouring Grimsley voted for Brexit last June. In part that

:35:51.:35:54.

was the continuing anger and resentment at the sell-out of the

:35:55.:35:58.

fishing industry in the original negotiations. The Brown Minister has

:35:59.:36:01.

reassured me that the fishing industry will be looked after but

:36:02.:36:11.

the associated seafood industry is very much dependent on the fishing

:36:12.:36:17.

industry. I have already met with industry leaders in my constituency

:36:18.:36:20.

who see both opportunities and concerns. Can she reassured me that

:36:21.:36:25.

the seafood processing industry will indeed be a key part of the

:36:26.:36:31.

negotiations? I can give my honourable friend the assurance that

:36:32.:36:34.

we don't just want to ensure we get a good future for the fishing

:36:35.:36:37.

industry, we want to ensure that the parts of the industry that rely on

:36:38.:36:40.

fishing will also have a good future here in the United Kingdom and we

:36:41.:36:48.

will be taking that into account. Thousands of EU nationals do

:36:49.:36:54.

essential and useful jobs in our agriculture and fishing sector. They

:36:55.:36:58.

still do not know what their status is going to be two years from now.

:36:59.:37:03.

The UK Government's position, is it so weak that they need to use these

:37:04.:37:08.

people as bargaining fodder in their negotiations? Why won't the Brown

:37:09.:37:10.

Minister make a goodwill gesture and guarantee their rights? -- the Prime

:37:11.:37:16.

Minister. As the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, and as the

:37:17.:37:23.

Parliament of the United Kingdom, I think we should all have cared not

:37:24.:37:27.

just for citizens living here but for United Kingdom citizens living

:37:28.:37:31.

in the EU. We want to ensure reciprocal arrangements guaranteeing

:37:32.:37:40.

rights on both sides. I welcome the Prime Minister's clear commitments

:37:41.:37:43.

to a positive, constructive and respectful approach to the

:37:44.:37:47.

negotiations that lie ahead. Can I pressed her further, on behalf of

:37:48.:37:51.

the fishing community in my constituency and around the United

:37:52.:37:54.

Kingdom. She will know that in the past they have been badly let down

:37:55.:37:58.

during negotiations, so can she give an equally clear commitment that the

:37:59.:38:04.

fishing community will receive a sufficiently high priority during

:38:05.:38:11.

the negotiations ahead? I can confirm to my honourable friend that

:38:12.:38:13.

we are very conscious of the needs of the fishing industry. DEFRA has

:38:14.:38:19.

been talking with the fishing industry and the secretaries of

:38:20.:38:21.

state and others has been looking carefully at the arrangements and

:38:22.:38:28.

needs of the fishing industry, which will be an important part of our

:38:29.:38:31.

considerations in future. A number of people are very distressed and

:38:32.:38:36.

sad that we are leaving the European Union. Many did not vote for it,

:38:37.:38:44.

many did not even get a say in this decision, but they are the

:38:45.:38:47.

generation most greatly affected by it. What will the Prime Minister do

:38:48.:38:52.

to ensure that she listens to and engages with the next-generation? I

:38:53.:38:56.

think the honourable lady makes an important point because the

:38:57.:39:00.

decisions we take now about how we leave the European Union, about what

:39:01.:39:04.

our arrangements are in the future, how we do what we do here in the

:39:05.:39:08.

United Kingdom in terms of our industrial strategy and technical

:39:09.:39:11.

education, are about the next generation. I want to ensure that we

:39:12.:39:15.

are ambitious for the whole of the country and ambitious to ensure a

:39:16.:39:18.

bright future for the next generation. That is what the

:39:19.:39:24.

government will be working for. Can I thank my honourable friend for the

:39:25.:39:28.

resonant way she has pushed through the will of the British people. Does

:39:29.:39:32.

she agree with me that invoking Article 50, the logical conclusion

:39:33.:39:36.

to that will be regaining control of our destiny? That means that all the

:39:37.:39:42.

rules and regulations made to govern our lives will be made in this place

:39:43.:39:49.

or on these islands, and not by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. I

:39:50.:39:54.

think my honourable friend has put his finger on the issue which a

:39:55.:39:57.

thing led to many people voting to leave the European Union, which is

:39:58.:40:01.

what they wanted was to feel that decisions were being taken here in

:40:02.:40:05.

the United Kingdom about their future and not being taken in

:40:06.:40:08.

Brussels. From the ranks of the boisterous bunch of the SNP, I think

:40:09.:40:12.

we should hear a voice of serenity and good conduct.

:40:13.:40:19.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. The chair of the EU Constitutional committee has

:40:20.:40:30.

spoken clearly and I quote, we have also taken note of the fact that UK

:40:31.:40:36.

citizens vivid differently in Scotland and Northern Ireland and

:40:37.:40:39.

also in Gibraltar, nicking it clear the majority wish to be in the

:40:40.:40:46.

union, and it is difficult to imagine those differences could be

:40:47.:40:50.

ignored and discarded in the process of Brexit, so can I ask how our

:40:51.:40:56.

friends and partners in Europe are so clear about making our voices

:40:57.:41:00.

heard and the honourable member complete the ignores them? The

:41:01.:41:08.

Government is not completely ignoring and discarding voices. We

:41:09.:41:14.

are focusing on the best possible outcome for the whole UK and that

:41:15.:41:20.

best possible outcome, I look at it in terms of the events we want to

:41:21.:41:27.

achieve, that free trade agreement, I understood that was what the

:41:28.:41:32.

Scottish Government wanted to see, a comprehensive free trade agreement,

:41:33.:41:40.

and we will be working four. The food and drinks manufacturing sector

:41:41.:41:43.

is the largest manufacturing sector in the UK. It is innovative, a

:41:44.:41:49.

significant exporter and employs a lot of people, and it is also an

:41:50.:41:57.

area affected by EU law, so in the forthcoming negotiations will the

:41:58.:42:00.

Prime Minister is sensitive to the needs of the sector and ensure it

:42:01.:42:04.

can't compete on a level playing field? I can assure my honourable

:42:05.:42:12.

friend that we are listening to the voices of industrial sectors around

:42:13.:42:17.

the country to ensure we take account of the concerns they have as

:42:18.:42:21.

we look ahead to leaving the EU because we want to ensure we build

:42:22.:42:26.

on the success we have, he talks about innovation, we want to build

:42:27.:42:31.

on that so we will take those interests in account. The Prime

:42:32.:42:38.

Minister's letter to President Tusk states in security terms a failure

:42:39.:42:43.

to reach agreement would mean our cooperation in the fight against

:42:44.:42:48.

crime and terror would be weakened. Could she clarify, is she still

:42:49.:42:52.

threatening to walk away with no deal if she doesn't get the economic

:42:53.:42:59.

deal she wants? I go on to make it clear that not having agreements on

:43:00.:43:03.

these issues would not be in the interests of the UK and the EU and

:43:04.:43:08.

we should work to ensure we secure a deal. Can I thank the Prime Minister

:43:09.:43:16.

for her statement and will she confirmed that during the Brexit

:43:17.:43:20.

negotiation she will play attention to the concerns of people in

:43:21.:43:26.

Gibraltar, maintain the effective working border with Spain and these

:43:27.:43:29.

negotiations will not be used as a back door to discussions about

:43:30.:43:37.

sovereignty, given that Gibraltarians, unlike some, want to

:43:38.:43:40.

respect the result of the referendum? I can't give an

:43:41.:43:47.

assurance to my honourable friend, we have set a Joint Ministerial

:43:48.:43:52.

Council with the Government of Gibraltar to discuss their

:43:53.:43:56.

particular issues to make sure the concerns are taken into account as

:43:57.:44:02.

we enter these negotiations and we are committed to continue engaging

:44:03.:44:06.

with Gibraltar. The honourable member is a jovial jackanapes, let's

:44:07.:44:12.

hear from the fella. I do apologise. hear from the fella. I do apologise.

:44:13.:44:29.

No, once is enough. Enough! Even an ardent Remainer like me recognises

:44:30.:44:34.

we now have a golden opportunity to reshape immigration policy. The

:44:35.:44:39.

Prime Minister spoke of a truly global Britain so will she apply

:44:40.:44:46.

that principle and at the earliest opportunity remove international

:44:47.:44:49.

students from net migration targets and sent out a message we are

:44:50.:44:55.

welcome information, and also stem the plummeting tide of EU

:44:56.:45:00.

applications to our universities? Whether or not students are included

:45:01.:45:05.

in the net migration target is not a message about our country and how

:45:06.:45:12.

welcome people. We welcome students to this country but what we do in

:45:13.:45:16.

statistics is abide by the international definition which is

:45:17.:45:21.

used by countries around the world. We want to ensure the brightest and

:45:22.:45:26.

the best can come to the UK and get the value of our education. Could I

:45:27.:45:35.

welcome the Prime Minister's seven principles in her letter, especially

:45:36.:45:38.

the first about constructive and respectful engagement and about the

:45:39.:45:45.

importance of the relationship with the Republic of Ireland and the

:45:46.:45:49.

Belfast Agreement. Which she agree that to achieve the best possible

:45:50.:45:54.

outcome for all constituents, there should be a minimum of red lines and

:45:55.:46:01.

the maximum flexibility? A agree it's important to be flexible but

:46:02.:46:05.

the key thing is that in everything we do we put the British national

:46:06.:46:13.

interest first. I don't know that the Prime Minister is aware of the

:46:14.:46:17.

draft resolution published by the European Parliament which includes a

:46:18.:46:24.

recognition that a large number of UK citizens, including a majority in

:46:25.:46:28.

Scotland and Northern Ireland, voted to remain in the EU. It doesn't

:46:29.:46:35.

mention Maidenhead, perhaps because the people of Maidenhead did not

:46:36.:46:38.

have a referendum where they were told that voting to remain in the UK

:46:39.:46:44.

would also mean remaining in the EU. The SNP cannot have it all ways

:46:45.:46:52.

because they wanted to leave the UK, which would have meant leaving the

:46:53.:46:58.

EU. I welcome how the Prime Minister has taken forward the will of the

:46:59.:47:03.

British people, including my constituents. In relation to

:47:04.:47:08.

fighting extremism, in 2014 there were 20 Daesh inspired terror acts

:47:09.:47:16.

around the world and in 2015 there were 60 such events. The UK has

:47:17.:47:21.

always had open intelligence sharing with our partners around the world,

:47:22.:47:27.

and there is a moral obligation for every international partner where

:47:28.:47:31.

they have that information to prevent a terror attack to provide

:47:32.:47:35.

that to their partner because we are all in it together. We are working

:47:36.:47:42.

together to fight terror and many of the exchanges on terrorism matters

:47:43.:47:48.

are not part of EU structures. Agriculture is devolved to the Welsh

:47:49.:47:55.

Government. Can the Prime Minister confirm whether any repeat region to

:47:56.:48:00.

powers in this area will also transferred to the Welsh Government?

:48:01.:48:08.

There are powers devolved to the administrations, if they are subject

:48:09.:48:13.

to decisions taken in the EU, so once we leave those would come to

:48:14.:48:19.

the UK. We want an open discussion with devolved administrations to

:48:20.:48:23.

ensure we keep a single market operating in the EU -- in the UK,

:48:24.:48:30.

but it is our expect patient that we will see significant increased

:48:31.:48:36.

decision-making powers moving to the devolved administrations when we

:48:37.:48:42.

leave. Today we embark on a journey which is undoubtedly motivated in

:48:43.:48:48.

part by a desire to control immigration but as we sit here,

:48:49.:48:52.

entire swathes of our country, public services and the economy, are

:48:53.:48:58.

dependent on hard-working EU migrants to function. In seeking to

:48:59.:49:04.

control immigration many people here want to seek lower levels of

:49:05.:49:08.

immigration but it will not be possible in practice until we reform

:49:09.:49:12.

our welfare state and education system so we can replace our

:49:13.:49:16.

reliance on foreign Labour with more local talent. We need to ensure that

:49:17.:49:25.

people in the UK have the skills and incentives to take up the jobs

:49:26.:49:30.

available, so bidders is here to not find it so necessary to rely on

:49:31.:49:36.

people from abroad. We recognise the valuable contribution that EU

:49:37.:49:42.

citizens are making to society here and we want to take the interests of

:49:43.:49:47.

business into account as we shape our immigration laws for the future.

:49:48.:49:55.

The Prime Minister's letter refers to doing nothing to jeopardise the

:49:56.:49:59.

peace process and the need to uphold the Belfast Agreement. Though she

:50:00.:50:04.

recognised the Belfast Agreement exists in several strands, including

:50:05.:50:10.

a framework for all Ireland cooperation, North-South joint

:50:11.:50:14.

implementation in key areas that presumed that would all happen in

:50:15.:50:18.

the context of common membership of the EU, so if that strength is not

:50:19.:50:23.

to be diminished and the agreement not damaged, how will the Government

:50:24.:50:29.

do that well saying there can be no differential treatment for Northern

:50:30.:50:32.

Ireland either inside the UK or by the EU? They cannot put that red

:50:33.:50:39.

line down in respect of Northern Ireland's prospects. We are

:50:40.:50:45.

conscious of the arrangements in the Belfast Agreement and the practical

:50:46.:50:51.

issues arising from the UK leaving the EU because of that land border

:50:52.:50:56.

with the Republic of Ireland. We're conscious of the work across border

:50:57.:51:01.

between Northern Ireland and the Republic, across a variety of areas,

:51:02.:51:07.

so we are working closely with the Irish government to ensure we can

:51:08.:51:11.

preserve the developments that have taken place and the progress made in

:51:12.:51:16.

Northern Ireland and we recognise the importance of the Belfast

:51:17.:51:19.

Agreement in that peace process and the future of Northern Ireland. Not

:51:20.:51:27.

to be last on these benches is a great honour indeed. Would my right

:51:28.:51:33.

honourable friend join me in thanking all those who have done so

:51:34.:51:39.

much to increased the prosperity and liberty of the European continent

:51:40.:51:44.

over 40 years? We should remember the change we have seen is so great

:51:45.:51:49.

that the president of the EU was a man born under tyranny who now leads

:51:50.:51:53.

an impressive union which we have chosen to leave, but like the great

:51:54.:52:00.

democrat he is, he has taken the will of the British people quietly

:52:01.:52:05.

and sensibly and is working with our government to ensure the Prime

:52:06.:52:07.

Minister can deliver what people voted for. Will she join me in

:52:08.:52:13.

hoping that this town of friendship which she has shown today and in her

:52:14.:52:19.

letter and that President Tusk has demonstrated in his reception of it,

:52:20.:52:23.

will continue through both negotiating teams and all ministers?

:52:24.:52:30.

I agree it is important that they're looking at this negotiation in every

:52:31.:52:37.

letter, it is important we maintain that positive approach, I think that

:52:38.:52:41.

is the best way of getting a good agreement at the end of it. On the

:52:42.:52:48.

23rd of June my constituency were not asked if they wanted to leave

:52:49.:52:53.

the single market or the Customs Union. In the event of not reaching

:52:54.:52:59.

a camera free trade agreement with the EU, why does she agree

:53:00.:53:03.

membership of the EU market and Customs Union is better than no Deal

:53:04.:53:11.

or a bad deal? Constituents were asked whether they wanted to remain

:53:12.:53:14.

members of the EU with everything that membership entails. The

:53:15.:53:20.

majority of people across the UK decided to vote to leave the EU.

:53:21.:53:28.

That has an of consequences and we want to negotiate that comprehensive

:53:29.:53:32.

free trade agreement which will provide for continuing free trade

:53:33.:53:37.

between the UK and the EU that it will be a different relationship in

:53:38.:53:44.

future. I am sure there is no dishonour in being last on these

:53:45.:53:48.

benches. Last week a new car factory was opened in my constituency with a

:53:49.:53:55.

?300 million new investment to build a new London taxi. Will the Prime

:53:56.:54:02.

Minister ensure that the outcome of Article 50 negotiations will allow

:54:03.:54:06.

the UK to secure this kind of valuable inward investment? I'm

:54:07.:54:12.

pleased to say we have seen significant commitments to inward

:54:13.:54:17.

investment both in the automotive industry over recent months and in

:54:18.:54:25.

things like the Softbank takeover of Arm and in the UK and Qatar business

:54:26.:54:30.

investment conference, Qatar is committing to setting up a ?5

:54:31.:54:37.

million fund to invest in our infrastructure in the UK. Can I say

:54:38.:54:46.

respectfully to the Prime Minister that she talks about self did

:54:47.:54:51.

termination, what's good for the goose is good for the gander and

:54:52.:54:54.

will the Prime Minister please respect that the people of this

:54:55.:55:01.

couple and voted to remain within Europe? Are democratically elected

:55:02.:55:06.

parliament has now voted and is seeking a section 30 agreement from

:55:07.:55:11.

this Government so that people of Scotland, on the basis we are being

:55:12.:55:15.

dragged out of the EU against our will, have our right to say, and to

:55:16.:55:22.

quote back to bust the 2014 referendum is disrespectful because

:55:23.:55:25.

we were told our place in Europe was secure. Do the right thing, allow

:55:26.:55:30.

the people of Scotland to have their say. I assume the honourable

:55:31.:55:38.

gentleman was voting to leave the UK in that referendum and that would

:55:39.:55:47.

have been a vote to leave the EU. While benefiting from free trade in

:55:48.:55:52.

goods and services come we also benefit from free flow of data

:55:53.:55:56.

across borders. In the nightmare scenario of Brexit without a data

:55:57.:56:02.

agreement in place, British businesses would have to renegotiate

:56:03.:56:06.

millions of contracts with the EU, so is it the Prime Minister's

:56:07.:56:11.

understanding that we could not begin those negotiations until we

:56:12.:56:18.

Brexit, so is preparing for those negotiations key for the British

:56:19.:56:24.

economy? We recognise that the exchange of data is an issue we have

:56:25.:56:28.

to address because it underpins so much that happens, as she won't know

:56:29.:56:33.

the right new arrangements being brought into place in the EU in

:56:34.:56:39.

terms of the directive. We will have to ensure that when we leave we have

:56:40.:56:44.

arrangements in place to enable the necessary flow of data and I expect

:56:45.:56:49.

that to be part of negotiations going forward. The European

:56:50.:56:56.

Commission has confirmed into solutions will be complete by autumn

:56:57.:57:03.

2018 and the Brexit resolution includes acknowledging that a

:57:04.:57:07.

majority of people in Scotland voted to stay in the EU. The will of the

:57:08.:57:13.

Scottish people was expressed for the transfer of powers to hold a

:57:14.:57:17.

legal referendum, compatible with the Prime Minister, the EU and the

:57:18.:57:24.

First Ministerspublicly expressed timetables. We have seen the EU

:57:25.:57:32.

figures and institutions in respect to Scotland's Democratic voice, so

:57:33.:57:36.

when will this Prime Minister respect them? I can only repeat what

:57:37.:57:44.

I said, now is not the time for a second independence referendum. It's

:57:45.:57:50.

important we work together to ensure we get the best possible deal for

:57:51.:57:54.

everyone across the UK, including the people of Scotland. The Prime

:57:55.:58:02.

Minister expresses confidence that a free trade agreement with the EU

:58:03.:58:07.

would be secured or she will know any trade agreement requires a

:58:08.:58:11.

mechanism to resolve disputes. She doesn't like the European Court of

:58:12.:58:15.

Justice, so what did she want to put in its place and how much will it

:58:16.:58:21.

cost? If you have a free-trade agreement it is important to have a

:58:22.:58:27.

resolution body in place, and this will be part of negotiations. In her

:58:28.:58:35.

letter, the Prime Minister promised that negotiations will take due

:58:36.:58:39.

account of the specific interests of every region of the UK, so can she

:58:40.:58:45.

tell us who's advice she will listen to two inch she is fully appraised

:58:46.:58:51.

of the specific interests of the region of which my constituency

:58:52.:58:56.

forms a part? We will work with the devolved administrations but also

:58:57.:59:02.

listen to businesses and others across the UK as they make clear to

:59:03.:59:09.

us their interrupts. I supported the remain campaign in the referendum

:59:10.:59:12.

but unlike the Prime Minister I'd have been consistent in my view of

:59:13.:59:18.

how damaging Brexit will be, while she carriers towards hard Brexit,

:59:19.:59:23.

presumably a prisoner of the ideological Brexiteers on her own

:59:24.:59:30.

benches. Can I ask about agencies that there will need to be

:59:31.:59:34.

established, has she identified how many we will need to have up and

:59:35.:59:39.

running and whether we will have the capacity to staff them? His role in

:59:40.:59:46.

the premise when he says the Government is going for a hard

:59:47.:59:51.

Brexit. We are not. I was clear in my statement today and in everything

:59:52.:59:58.

in this chamber, we are looking for a comprehensive free trade agreement

:59:59.:00:02.

with the EU. I believe we can achieve that. When will Scotland

:00:03.:00:10.

receive the enhanced powers including over emigration promised

:00:11.:00:16.

by the dense Secretary of State for Justice? In terms of powers that

:00:17.:00:26.

have been repatriated to the UK from Brussels, we will enter discussions

:00:27.:00:30.

with the devolved administrations about how those powers should best

:00:31.:00:35.

be dealt with, whether they should remain in terms of UK frameworks or

:00:36.:00:39.

be further evolved, but there will be significant decision making

:00:40.:00:44.

powers coming to the devolved administrations? Eye with the Prime

:00:45.:00:51.

Minister well in these negotiations. She carries a heavy burden on her

:00:52.:00:57.

shoulders, the hopes of millions of people across the UK who look

:00:58.:01:01.

forward to a bright future outside the EU, free from the Dick patient

:01:02.:01:07.

of how our laws come and how our money is spent, and can I welcome

:01:08.:01:12.

the fact her ministers have spent so much time on dealing with the issue

:01:13.:01:16.

of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, but during

:01:17.:01:22.

these negotiations we may not have worked in Northern Ireland Assembly.

:01:23.:01:30.

Can she tell us how the interrupts of Northern Ireland will be

:01:31.:01:32.

represented during the ongoing negotiations? I would hope we can

:01:33.:01:41.

ensure we do have a Northern Ireland Assembly in place, so we are able to

:01:42.:01:46.

have that interlocutor in Northern Ireland as we go forward and take

:01:47.:01:52.

the views of Northern Ireland Ford, and it's in all our interests to

:01:53.:01:57.

work for that devolved government, not just for that reason but because

:01:58.:02:01.

I think it is right for Northern Ireland. In the absence of such a

:02:02.:02:06.

government we will continue to talk to political parties in Northern

:02:07.:02:10.

Ireland would also take wider views from businesses and others about

:02:11.:02:17.

their concerns for their interests within Northern Ireland and other

:02:18.:02:25.

parts of the UK. For weeks the Prime Minister May it abundantly clear she

:02:26.:02:29.

did not want the Scottish Parliament to vote in favour of a referendum on

:02:30.:02:34.

independence, no one could have been left in any doubt as to her position

:02:35.:02:38.

in this matter, but given that the Scottish parliament last night by

:02:39.:02:45.

unambiguous majority in favour of a referendum on independence,

:02:46.:02:49.

regardless of her personal preference and recognising her

:02:50.:02:57.

commitment for constructive and respectful dialogue, will the Prime

:02:58.:03:00.

Minister now respect that democratic decision? He is right, the Scottish

:03:01.:03:09.

parliament was clear when it came to consider this issue, and as he says

:03:10.:03:15.

there was a majority in favour of Article 30 but I was clear that now

:03:16.:03:20.

is not the time for a second independence referendum, now is the

:03:21.:03:26.

time for the UK to come together and focus on the historic decision that

:03:27.:03:33.

we have taken and the negotiations we now have to ensure the right deal

:03:34.:03:38.

for the whole UK, including the people of Scotland. The Prime

:03:39.:03:45.

Minister said in July at the same time as promising a UK wide

:03:46.:03:50.

agreement that she wanted to make this country work for everyone. This

:03:51.:03:55.

week we see cuts to disability support in the shape of employment

:03:56.:04:01.

allowance, so can she explain how Brexit Britain will be in need

:04:02.:04:06.

different in delivering the socially just society she keeps promising? I

:04:07.:04:12.

have set out my plans for a fairer society and looking ahead to the

:04:13.:04:18.

various things we will put in place to ensure we have a society where

:04:19.:04:24.

people can succeed on merit not privilege, a stronger economy where

:04:25.:04:27.

people played by the same rules that he mentions welfare, powers relating

:04:28.:04:34.

to welfare have been given to the Scottish Government and I understand

:04:35.:04:42.

they have yet to use them. This morning I witnessed a construction

:04:43.:04:48.

worker telling some eastern European workers that you lot can go home

:04:49.:04:56.

now. Without guarantees to EU national friends, colleagues and

:04:57.:05:00.

family, this is behaviour and rhetoric will only increase. So it

:05:01.:05:07.

does the Prime Minister agreed that this is the time to show leadership

:05:08.:05:13.

in granting unilaterally the rights of our EU national friends asked

:05:14.:05:18.

Mike xenophobic behaviour. None of us want to see xenophobic saviour in

:05:19.:05:26.

the UK, EU citizens have worked alongside us and contribute to our

:05:27.:05:31.

economy and society, but then looking ahead I want to ensure a

:05:32.:05:36.

reciprocal agreement for EU citizens here, the honourable lady shakes her

:05:37.:05:42.

head. We have a duty to have a care for EU citizens. The Prime

:05:43.:05:51.

Minister's commitment to get the best possible deal for the UK offers

:05:52.:05:58.

little reassurance to rural Scotland because they're experienced from the

:05:59.:06:02.

allocation of convergence, farm payments, two Scottish fishing being

:06:03.:06:08.

expendable, shows where they are on a Conservative government priority

:06:09.:06:14.

list. We understand the need for EU frameworks but could she offer

:06:15.:06:19.

reassurance by confirming the powers over Scottish agriculture and

:06:20.:06:22.

fishing will go to the Scottish parliament and that Scottish

:06:23.:06:26.

officials will represent Scottish interests in negotiations? We want

:06:27.:06:36.

to ensure we have a single market continuing within the UK, but as has

:06:37.:06:42.

been clear from the honourable gentleman speaks up for Scottish

:06:43.:06:49.

fishing, and I can assure him that agriculture and fishing will be

:06:50.:06:55.

issues we take into account, recognising their importance for the

:06:56.:07:02.

whole UK. Given the Prime Minister earlier compared the nation of

:07:03.:07:08.

Scotland to the kids of Maidenhead, does she understand the UK is

:07:09.:07:13.

composed of four nations and not one? Can she outline for us today

:07:14.:07:19.

what practical concessions the UK Government has made to the devolved

:07:20.:07:25.

government's concerns as part of the UK wide approach to article 54 is it

:07:26.:07:30.

a case of lemmings unite as we leap off the Brexit cliff together?

:07:31.:07:36.

There is a very simple point which is that across the United Kingdom

:07:37.:07:42.

people voted in different ways at the referendum, but the majority of

:07:43.:07:47.

the United Kingdom electorate voted to leave the European Union and the

:07:48.:07:51.

government is respecting that vote. And we will continue to work with

:07:52.:07:55.

the devolved administrations. We have taken into account that there

:07:56.:07:59.

are many areas where we have common ground with the Scottish Government

:08:00.:08:02.

in wanting a copper hands of access to the European single market. In

:08:03.:08:06.

wanting to protect workers' rights and recognise the importance of

:08:07.:08:10.

science and innovation. In all those, we have had common ground

:08:11.:08:13.

with the Scottish Government but it is unfortunate they do not seem to

:08:14.:08:17.

recognise where we do have common ground with them and are unable and

:08:18.:08:23.

unwilling to acknowledge that. Today's statement is full of

:08:24.:08:28.

cliches, platitudes and jingoism but no answers. When will the government

:08:29.:08:32.

of Scotland, democratically elected to represent the nation of Scotland,

:08:33.:08:38.

a nation devoted to remain in the EU, be given an opportunity to

:08:39.:08:42.

contribute to supplying the facts and figures that are so lacking. He

:08:43.:08:47.

has had one vacuous vowel and we do not need another one. -- vacuous

:08:48.:08:54.

vow. He talks about representation in Scotland and he and his

:08:55.:08:58.

colleagues represent Scottish constituencies in the UK Parliament

:08:59.:09:05.

of which he is a constituent part. In an act of self determination, the

:09:06.:09:09.

Scottish Parliament yesterday voted to hold an independence referendum.

:09:10.:09:13.

The Prime Minister has repeatedly said, no will not be the time.

:09:14.:09:16.

Nobody is planning to hold a referendum now. If I may paraphrase

:09:17.:09:24.

Ruth Davidson, or part of now does she not understand? -- what part of

:09:25.:09:31.

now. I will say to the honourable gentleman that I have answered

:09:32.:09:33.

questions on this thread this afternoon and my position has not

:09:34.:09:40.

changed. Thank you, Mr Speaker, while the Prime Minister was

:09:41.:09:45.

deliberate killing -- delivering her Battenberg addressed earlier, she

:09:46.:09:48.

indicated that she would continue to ignore Scotland but is she aware of

:09:49.:09:52.

the comments of Tory SMP Annie Welles who says she does not respect

:09:53.:09:56.

the sovereignty of the Scottish Parliament? And will she distance

:09:57.:10:01.

herself from those remarks? Can I say to the honourable gentleman that

:10:02.:10:04.

I did not say I would ignore the views of Scotland. In fact, in the

:10:05.:10:08.

letter sent to President Tusk, we make it clear that the views of all

:10:09.:10:11.

constituent parts of the UK will be taken into account in our

:10:12.:10:19.

negotiations. As the Prime Minister has had difficulty with

:10:20.:10:25.

constitutional issues, let me ask another question about workers'

:10:26.:10:27.

rights. Can the Prime Minister pledged that employment rights for

:10:28.:10:33.

women, that derive from EU legislation and ECJ rulings in

:10:34.:10:36.

relation to equal pay, pregnancy, maternity and protection against

:10:37.:10:40.

termination, will be retained and if so, can she outline the process is

:10:41.:10:44.

to maintain those protections? In the speech that I set out in

:10:45.:10:49.

Lancaster house, that I gave in January, I set out the key part of

:10:50.:10:55.

our negotiations and workers' rights was a key part of that speech. In

:10:56.:10:59.

further statements today and at other times, I have been clear that

:11:00.:11:02.

this government wants to protect workers' rights and enhance workers'

:11:03.:11:09.

rights. Many thanks, Mr Speaker. Ploughing on regardless, does the

:11:10.:11:12.

Prime Minister simply feel that she can ride roughshod over the will of

:11:13.:11:16.

the Scottish people on the EU and now the mandate of the Scottish

:11:17.:11:21.

Government? Is the Prime Minister in denial or is this a deliberate

:11:22.:11:28.

policy of disrespect? There is no question of riding roughshod over

:11:29.:11:31.

the votes of anybody in the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom held a

:11:32.:11:35.

referendum. This Parliament agreed that

:11:36.:11:35.

the decision of leaving the European Union or not should be given to the

:11:36.:11:44.

British people, people across all of the United Kingdom. They were given

:11:45.:11:48.

that referendum and they chose to vote to leave the European Union and

:11:49.:11:51.

the government is now respecting the result that referendum. Despite

:11:52.:12:02.

having a majority in this House, there are a few facts are Prime

:12:03.:12:07.

Minister needs to remember. In 2015, firstly the Tories only got 36% of

:12:08.:12:12.

the vote in the UK. They got less than 15% of the vote in Scotland and

:12:13.:12:19.

only one MP. Their worst performance since 1855. Last year, in the

:12:20.:12:22.

Scottish Parliament election, the Ruth Davidson party was still only

:12:23.:12:27.

third in the constituency votes. By contrast, the SNP government was

:12:28.:12:30.

re-elected with the biggest vote share of any government in the

:12:31.:12:39.

Europe. Within the manifesto, a to hold a referendum in Scotland. Why

:12:40.:12:48.

then, and she says she has answered this question, does she think that

:12:49.:12:52.

she can continue to stand at the dispatch box with no mandate in

:12:53.:12:54.

Scotland and take control of the timing of the referendum? This is

:12:55.:13:02.

the United Kingdom Parliament, and as the banister of the United

:13:03.:13:05.

Kingdom, I have said and I continue to say that I think that now is not

:13:06.:13:10.

the time for a second independence referendum. -- as the Prime Minister

:13:11.:13:15.

of the United Kingdom. What we should be focusing on at this time

:13:16.:13:19.

is working to ensure that we get the best deal for the whole of the

:13:20.:13:26.

United Kingdom as we leave the EU. In both her statement today and in

:13:27.:13:31.

her letter to President Tusk, the Prime Minister speaks of the

:13:32.:13:34.

expectation that devolved government powers will be increased. I am sure

:13:35.:13:37.

she will want to honour the promises made to win the referendum so can

:13:38.:13:41.

she confirmed that one of the powers devolved to Scotland will include

:13:42.:13:45.

immigration as promised by the Justice Secretary during the

:13:46.:13:50.

campaign or is now not the time? The honourable gentleman will be aware

:13:51.:13:52.

that the issue of immigration was one that was looked at in the Smith

:13:53.:13:56.

Commission and it is not determined to be one of the issues that was

:13:57.:14:01.

delegated. But I repeat what I have said in a letter and I have said

:14:02.:14:05.

here again today, that as a result of the repatriation powers we will

:14:06.:14:09.

see significant decision-making powers being given to the devolved

:14:10.:14:12.

administrations over and above what they have today. The stated position

:14:13.:14:26.

of the UK Government was that the UK is a family of nations, a

:14:27.:14:32.

partnership of equals. Why, then, is the UK Prime Minister and her

:14:33.:14:36.

Secretary of State for Scotland so disrespectful to the people and

:14:37.:14:40.

Parliament of Scotland, and why are they running so scared of a Scottish

:14:41.:14:48.

referendum 18 months to two years down the line? There is no

:14:49.:14:52.

disrespect for anybody. But the raises respect for putting into

:14:53.:14:55.

place a vote that was taken by the people of the United Kingdom on the

:14:56.:15:05.

23rd of June last year. Last year, the Prime Minister gave her word

:15:06.:15:09.

that she would seek an agreed United Kingdom approach on Brexit with the

:15:10.:15:12.

devolved administrations. In order to assist us in making a judgment

:15:13.:15:18.

about what the word is worth, can I ask her to give this House a single

:15:19.:15:23.

example of a suggestion or request made by the Scottish Government

:15:24.:15:26.

which she has taken on board? A single one, anyone. I have already

:15:27.:15:33.

set out that there are many areas of issues that the Scottish Government

:15:34.:15:37.

has raised in their paper on which we agree. As will become clearer

:15:38.:15:44.

when we respond to that paper. Order. Patience rewarded. Thank you,

:15:45.:15:52.

Mr Speaker. I wonder how the Prime Minister would have responded if

:15:53.:15:55.

Donald Tusk and simply said that now is not the time. -- if Donald Tusk

:15:56.:16:01.

had simply said. I think the honourable gentleman with his

:16:02.:16:04.

background will know that the Treaty on the European Union enables the

:16:05.:16:07.

member states to trigger Article 50 in the way that we have done and it

:16:08.:16:10.

is then for the European Union to respond to that by sitting out the

:16:11.:16:18.

basis -- setting out of the basis of two years of negotiation. Order,

:16:19.:16:21.

order. We will come to a point of order in a moment but first of all

:16:22.:16:25.

can I thank all 113 backbench members to question the Prime

:16:26.:16:29.

Minister and can I thank the Prime Minister, who has been with us for

:16:30.:16:33.

the last three hours and 21 minutes, attending to this statement for the

:16:34.:16:40.

last two hours and 46 notes. I think in the name of courtesy, we ought to

:16:41.:16:44.

say a big thank you to the Prime Minister. Point of order, Mr Tom

:16:45.:16:51.

Brady. Mr Speaker, the Liberal Democrats believe that Brexit will

:16:52.:16:54.

cause untold damage to the UK's economy and influence in the world.

:16:55.:16:58.

But the government has triggered Article 50 so we will do all in our

:16:59.:17:03.

power to ensure that it is a success. Mr Speaker, if it is not a

:17:04.:17:08.

success, what guidance can you give me on how those responsible for any

:17:09.:17:16.

such damage, the Prime Minister, the secretary straight for common

:17:17.:17:21.

affairs, and exiting the EU, will truly be held to account in this

:17:22.:17:26.

House for their actions and for their failure, and that the blame

:17:27.:17:30.

will simply not be shifted to the Remainer is, the European Union or

:17:31.:17:36.

anybody else they choose to blame? I do not wish to be unkind to the

:17:37.:17:39.

right honourable gentleman who has served as a deputy leader of this

:17:40.:17:43.

has no less. Possibly say to the honourable gentleman, two things,

:17:44.:17:49.

first of all I am not all wary of entertaining hypotheticals, and at

:17:50.:17:53.

the moment, the right honourable gentleman, perfectly legitimately,

:17:54.:17:58.

is using the ruse of a point of order to raise a hypothetical. That

:17:59.:18:02.

is the first point. The second point is, and the right honourable

:18:03.:18:05.

gentleman knows this, all members of this House have not only a right

:18:06.:18:09.

but, frankly, a responsibility on whichever side of the House they

:18:10.:18:14.

sit, to hold the executive to account. That is a primary function

:18:15.:18:20.

of a member of Parliament, and all I can say to the right honourable

:18:21.:18:23.

gentleman is that however this situation evolves, he can rest

:18:24.:18:31.

content that those who seek to hold the executive to account will always

:18:32.:18:42.

have a friend in the chair. Point of order, Mrs Cheryl Gillan. Mr

:18:43.:18:46.

Speaker, you and I and several other members of this House have taken

:18:47.:18:51.

more than a passing interest in a project which is one of the largest

:18:52.:18:55.

infrastructure projects in Europe, called HS2. And it has been brought

:18:56.:19:02.

to my attention on the wires this afternoon that... On the wires? The

:19:03.:19:12.

press Association, I believe it is known as the wires to those of us

:19:13.:19:15.

who have been around as long as I have. Seriously, the engineering

:19:16.:19:22.

firm that was handed ?170 million last month to develop phase two of

:19:23.:19:30.

HS2 has announced that it is pulling out of that section of the project,

:19:31.:19:39.

amid alleged conflicts of interest. CH2M is also the firm that has been

:19:40.:19:44.

awarded a ?350 million deal to develop phase one of the line from

:19:45.:19:50.

London to Birmingham. In the comments that came from the CH2M

:19:51.:19:58.

spokesman, allegedly on the wire, it says that the protracted delays and

:19:59.:20:01.

ongoing speculation risk further delays to this critical national

:20:02.:20:06.

infrastructure, thereby increasing costs to UK taxpayers as well as to

:20:07.:20:12.

the firm. It goes on to say that it is fully committed to delivering

:20:13.:20:16.

phase one on time and within budget, Mr Speaker, this is a pretty amazing

:20:17.:20:25.

announcement from one of the main contractors on HS2. I wondered if

:20:26.:20:30.

you had had any indication at all from the Department for Transport

:20:31.:20:32.

that a minister was intending to come here to the House and explain

:20:33.:20:39.

this extraordinary state of affairs, because after all, this now raises

:20:40.:20:43.

questions over large amounts of taxpayers money that are being sunk

:20:44.:20:48.

into this project, and I think that this House needs to be the first to

:20:49.:20:52.

know and not to read it on the press Association wires. I am grateful to

:20:53.:20:57.

the honourable lady for her point of order to which I respond as follows.

:20:58.:21:02.

First, very much in the margins of what the right honourable lady had

:21:03.:21:04.

to say, this seems to be some for old browse. And moderately noisy

:21:05.:21:09.

reactions to her reference to what she had heard on the wires. It seems

:21:10.:21:14.

to be a fairly unexceptional observation that the right

:21:15.:21:16.

honourable lady made. She will recall that the father in the House

:21:17.:21:20.

-- the father of the House in the last Parliament would account to the

:21:21.:21:28.

House what he had heard on the wireless that morning, by comparison

:21:29.:21:33.

to which the right honourable lady's statement is positively modern.

:21:34.:21:36.

Secondly I will say to her that this was news to me until a few moments

:21:37.:21:41.

ago. It is certainly a significant element involving a large-scale

:21:42.:21:45.

contractor and very significant sums of public money. I have received no

:21:46.:21:49.

indication from a minister of any intention to make a statement on the

:21:50.:21:52.

matter and that may be because there is so much -- no such intention or

:21:53.:21:56.

it may be the courtesy of ministers not wanting to approach me while I

:21:57.:22:00.

am attending to my duties in the chair. I feel that it may be a

:22:01.:22:04.

triumph of optimism over reality but it is possible that may explain the

:22:05.:22:07.

situation. I will say to the honourable lady that if memory

:22:08.:22:11.

serves me correctly, we have questions to the Secretary of State

:22:12.:22:14.

for Transport tomorrow and if the record is anything by which to

:22:15.:22:18.

judge, which I expect it is, the right honourable lady will be in her

:22:19.:22:22.

place and will almost certainly be an opportunity to raise this matter

:22:23.:22:25.

with the Secretary of State. I look forward to that exchange with eager

:22:26.:22:29.

anticipation, as I am sure does the House. If there are no further

:22:30.:22:38.

points of order, we come now to the next business. In a moment I will

:22:39.:22:42.

call Neil grade to make an application for leave to propose a

:22:43.:22:45.

bait on a specific and important matter that should have urgent

:22:46.:22:48.

consideration under the terms of standing order number 24. The

:22:49.:22:53.

honourable gentleman has up to three minutes in which to make such an

:22:54.:22:59.

application. Mr Neale Graver. Thank you, Mr Speaker, I take leave to

:23:00.:23:02.

propose that the House should debate the specific and important matter

:23:03.:23:06.

that should have urgent consideration, namely mitigating

:23:07.:23:12.

support for the support allowance work group. We have known about this

:23:13.:23:22.

that happening for some time. I have raised this issue in collaboration

:23:23.:23:24.

with others on a cross-party basis on a number of occasions. The cut is

:23:25.:23:28.

unanimously opposed by disability charities and disabled peoples

:23:29.:23:34.

organisations -- disabled People's organisations. Next week the cut

:23:35.:23:36.

comes into force on the House has not been given the information it

:23:37.:23:39.

was promised about what the government is going to do to ensure

:23:40.:23:43.

that the recipients, new and existing, are not financially

:23:44.:23:46.

penalised. I will use the couple of minutes that I have to appeal to the

:23:47.:23:49.

House for a fuller debate but also to the government. Next week, a cut

:23:50.:23:59.

of one third to the income of recipients of ESARAG will begin,

:24:00.:24:04.

?170 down to ?70 a week. That means that many disabled people found

:24:05.:24:09.

unfit to work will be ?30 a week worse off, money desperately needed

:24:10.:24:13.

to pay bills, stay healthy and undertake work-related activity such

:24:14.:24:16.

as volunteering or attending courses. We already know that a

:24:17.:24:22.

large proportion of those currently in receipt of ESARAG are struggling

:24:23.:24:25.

to make ends meet on what they receive now. With that extra ?30 a

:24:26.:24:32.

week we have no idea what the impact will be on them when ESARAG is cut

:24:33.:24:39.

back. These are people with disabilities or mental health

:24:40.:24:45.

conditions who want to work. They want to work but they are currently

:24:46.:24:51.

unable. Bridging and deeper into poverty will hinder, not help, any

:24:52.:24:54.

move towards employment. They are being faced with a double indignity,

:24:55.:24:59.

Mr Speaker, of wanting to work but being unable to find a job and then

:25:00.:25:03.

being told that the level of financial support that they are

:25:04.:25:06.

struggling to live on is a disincentive to work. That should

:25:07.:25:11.

shame cars. In November, MPs from eight Botaka parties plus

:25:12.:25:17.

independents helped to unanimously carried emotion that are brought to

:25:18.:25:20.

the House asking for the government to oppose these cuts. We were

:25:21.:25:23.

promised that mitigations would be in place before next week but there

:25:24.:25:26.

has been no oral statement, no written statement or announcement,

:25:27.:25:31.

just a vague commitments to social tariffs and hardship funds. That is

:25:32.:25:34.

no way to treat people desperate for support. I have been asking

:25:35.:25:38.

questions. I did so on Monday and I do not take the lack of a proper

:25:39.:25:43.

response personally as as the expert charities themselves have been

:25:44.:25:46.

seeking this information only to receive the same vague responses. I

:25:47.:25:50.

know that time is tight this week of all weeks. I understand that. But

:25:51.:25:55.

time is not on the side of people who desperately need this board.

:25:56.:25:59.

That is why I made this request of you, and why I am grateful to have

:26:00.:26:03.

had some time to appeal to the government. It is not too late for

:26:04.:26:07.

them to publish the support they have secured which they promised

:26:08.:26:11.

will make up for the cut of the ?30 a week. This is the last chance that

:26:12.:26:16.

we have to discuss this issue which has united members from across

:26:17.:26:21.

Pliskova bides, before it is too late, before there is nothing to be

:26:22.:26:25.

done. -- from across political divides. I hope ministers hear this

:26:26.:26:29.

and please react. The honourable member asks leave to propose a

:26:30.:26:32.

debate on a specific and important matter that should have urgent

:26:33.:26:36.

consideration, namely mitigating support for employment support

:26:37.:26:41.

allowance activity group. I have listened carefully to the

:26:42.:26:43.

application from the honourable gentleman but I am afraid that I am

:26:44.:26:47.

not persuaded that this matter is proper to be discussed,

:26:48.:26:51.

understanding order number 24. As the honourable gentleman and his

:26:52.:26:54.

colleagues will doubtless be aware, the standing order does not permit

:26:55.:26:58.

me to give my reasons to the House. That said, and double certainly

:26:59.:27:04.

today was the last opportunity for the honourable gentleman to seek

:27:05.:27:07.

such a debate before we depart for the recess, the may well be an

:27:08.:27:12.

opportunity for this matter to be debated in another way upon our

:27:13.:27:19.

return. And I am sure that the honourable gentleman will eagerly

:27:20.:27:25.

seize any such opportunity. If there are no further points of order we

:27:26.:27:29.

come now to the ten minute rule motion which the honourable

:27:30.:27:32.

gentleman the Member for Lee has been so patiently -- so patiently

:27:33.:27:38.

waiting. Thank you, Mr Speaker, I beg to move that leave be given to

:27:39.:27:43.

bring in a bill to set a requirement on public institutions, public

:27:44.:27:46.

servants and officials, that those carrying out functions on their

:27:47.:27:50.

behalf to act in the public interest and with candour and frankness, to

:27:51.:27:54.

define the public law duty on them to assist courts, official quarries

:27:55.:27:57.

and investigations to enable victims to enforce such duties, to great

:27:58.:28:02.

offences for the breach of certain duties, to provide funding for

:28:03.:28:04.

victims and the relatives in certain proceedings before the courts and at

:28:05.:28:10.

official enquiries and investigations, and for connected

:28:11.:28:12.

purposes. Mr Speaker, next month marks the 28th anniversary of the

:28:13.:28:18.

Hillsborough disaster and the first anniversary of the historic verdict

:28:19.:28:22.

of the second inquest. Whatever the sense of relief felt a year ago, it

:28:23.:28:28.

will never wipe away the pain of the 27 Wilderness years between those

:28:29.:28:32.

two events, and the intangible toll on thousands of lives. We await

:28:33.:28:39.

accountability for that. All those years, the evidence sat in official

:28:40.:28:45.

files, but our political, legal and colonial systems did not uncover it.

:28:46.:28:49.

Nor did the media. Worse, they actively colluded in a cover-up,

:28:50.:28:54.

advanced in the committee rooms of this House. I said again and I it

:28:55.:29:00.

again today, Hillsborough must be a watershed moment in this country, a

:29:01.:29:05.

point in history when the scales of justice are tipped firmly in favour

:29:06.:29:09.

of ordinary families fighting for loved ones. This is what the public

:29:10.:29:17.

authority accountability Bill, or Hillsborough Law, seeks to achieve.

:29:18.:29:23.

It is a powerful Bill proposed and supported by all of the Hillsborough

:29:24.:29:26.

families, and both the Hillsborough Family Support Group and the

:29:27.:29:29.

Hillsborough Justice campaign. It has been developed with the help of

:29:30.:29:33.

their lawyers and I pay particular tribute to Peter Weatherby QC in

:29:34.:29:38.

this regard. As an aside, Mr Speaker, it happens to be the last

:29:39.:29:41.

bill that will be prepared by Mr Glenn McKee from the public Bill

:29:42.:29:48.

office, who, after 34 years here, retires tomorrow. I am sure that

:29:49.:29:53.

colleagues on both sides will join me in paying tribute to an

:29:54.:29:59.

exceptional servant to this House and to our democracy. The bill has

:30:00.:30:03.

formidable backing from other justice campaigns, including

:30:04.:30:09.

Inquest, many in the legal profession and honourable member is

:30:10.:30:13.

on both sides. Its aim is simple, to protect other families from going

:30:14.:30:16.

through what the Hillsborough families went through and from a

:30:17.:30:19.

similar miscarriage of justice. It empowers victims to ensure

:30:20.:30:28.

disclosure of crucial information and prevent public authorities lying

:30:29.:30:30.

to them or hiding the truth by making that an imprisonable offence.

:30:31.:30:35.

-- and imprisonable offence. It empowers police officers to stand up

:30:36.:30:40.

to seniors trying to make them stick to a misleading corporate lie. It

:30:41.:30:43.

makes it an offence for such a line to be peddled to the media.

:30:44.:30:47.

Crucially, it reached a level legal playing field at inquests for

:30:48.:30:51.

bereaved families so that finally inquests become what they should

:30:52.:30:54.

always be, a vehicle to get to the truth. After last year's verdict,

:30:55.:31:01.

the chair of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, Margaret Aspinall,

:31:02.:31:04.

came here to speak of her experience in the early 1990s. I don't think

:31:05.:31:07.

anyone who was at that meeting will ever forget her talking about her

:31:08.:31:12.

pain when she was sent a Kalimantan official letter with a cheque for

:31:13.:31:18.

?1226 which was supposed to represent compensation for James'

:31:19.:31:24.

life. She spoke about how she was forced to cash against her will

:31:25.:31:27.

because she could not find the money to pay it against ?3000 share of the

:31:28.:31:33.

families' legal costs. She said, making a mother like myself accept a

:31:34.:31:36.

pittance to fight to cars, the guilt this has lived with me for the past

:31:37.:31:41.

28 years. It would be at least something if we could say that this

:31:42.:31:44.

would not happen today. But sadly we cannot. Since the Hillsborough

:31:45.:31:49.

verdict, the families of those who died in 1974 in the Birmingham pub

:31:50.:31:54.

bombings have, quite wrongly and unbelievably, been made to beg for

:31:55.:31:59.

legal aid. There are thousands of other hidden individual cases where

:32:00.:32:04.

bereaved families are denied legal representation while the public

:32:05.:32:07.

bodies that they are up against in court spend public money like water

:32:08.:32:13.

hiring the best QCs in the land, as cuts to legal aid bite -- in the

:32:14.:32:20.

land. As cuts to legal aid bite, the problem gets worse. There was a

:32:21.:32:26.

young boy who died as part of the national cuts in 2014. His parents

:32:27.:32:31.

believe that the problem was caused by contaminated landfill. Scientists

:32:32.:32:34.

were called onto the site and the case was discussed at Cobra. Despite

:32:35.:32:38.

this, the family were denied legal aid. They arrived at the inquest to

:32:39.:32:42.

find themselves up against a phalanx of top QCs and left feeling as

:32:43.:32:46.

though they had been put on trial. They are still fighting for and

:32:47.:32:50.

today as to what happened to their child. Consider the

:32:51.:33:10.

experience of distracting the force from the Milly Dowler investigation,

:33:11.:33:14.

an accusation with no foundation. My wife and I were made to feel that we

:33:15.:33:18.

were on trial and our families undermined at every opportunity, he

:33:19.:33:22.

said after the verdict. The brutal and uncomfortable truth is this, Mr

:33:23.:33:26.

Speaker. Bereaved families are not just denied legal assistance, they

:33:27.:33:31.

have their character questioned and denigrated by lawyers or public

:33:32.:33:35.

bodies. They are thrown into courtrooms, roll with grief, pitched

:33:36.:33:38.

into an adversarial battle and effectively put on trial. -- raw

:33:39.:33:44.

with grief. How long will we in here led vast sums of public money be

:33:45.:33:48.

used to torment families in this way? If the state can cover up 96

:33:49.:33:52.

deaths at a football match, shouldn't we be concerned of what it

:33:53.:33:57.

might do to individuals? The Hillsborough Family Support Group

:33:58.:33:59.

has asked me to say this to the House today. For the good of the

:34:00.:34:04.

nation there should be a level playing field of inquests. The

:34:05.:34:07.

grief, pain and heartache is enough for families to deal with. They

:34:08.:34:11.

should not have to deal with money worries or beg for public funds to

:34:12.:34:14.

get to the truth. Their powerful call for quality of arms has support

:34:15.:34:21.

including from Peter Thornton QC, the former chief coroner. To those

:34:22.:34:25.

who say it will add costs, I disagree. The practical effect of

:34:26.:34:29.

clause four would be to create a new incentive for public bodies to limit

:34:30.:34:32.

of their own legal expenditure. And by making them come clean at the

:34:33.:34:36.

outset, the bill will cut the length of inquests and enquiries, thereby

:34:37.:34:40.

making considerable savings. It would promote good public

:34:41.:34:43.

administration and promote public confidence in the police. Most

:34:44.:34:48.

importantly, it will rebalance our legal system in favour of ordinary

:34:49.:34:51.

people. Until then, the true lesson of Hillsborough will not have been

:34:52.:34:55.

learned. What has disappointed me most are in the last year is to see

:34:56.:34:59.

how things have reverted to business as usual, for the establishment

:35:00.:35:01.

teams that Hillsborough was the one that got away rather than what it

:35:02.:35:04.

should have been, the catalyst for change. I see this with sadness as I

:35:05.:35:10.

truly hope it would be the latter, but of elements over the last year

:35:11.:35:13.

suggest otherwise. Alongside the shoddy treatment of the Birmingham

:35:14.:35:18.

families we have the refusal of an enquiry into Orgreave on the basis

:35:19.:35:22.

that nobody died. If that is now the Home Secretary's benchmark for the

:35:23.:35:26.

wrongdoing can be investigated, God help us all. Nobody died at

:35:27.:35:30.

Orgreave, true, but innocent people were wrongly and maliciously

:35:31.:35:33.

prosecuted in the country should know how that came to be. Nobody

:35:34.:35:37.

died during the building workers dispute of the early 1970s, either,

:35:38.:35:40.

but it does not mean that we should not be told the truth about the

:35:41.:35:43.

politically motivated Shrewsbury show trial and what I believe was a

:35:44.:35:46.

serious miscarriage of justice. Then there

:35:47.:36:05.

is the treatment of victims of contaminated blood. Arguably the

:36:06.:36:07.

greatest injustice of all. They had been led up to the top of the hill

:36:08.:36:10.

only to be let down once again. As with Hillsborough, clear evidence of

:36:11.:36:13.

serious wrongdoing is there if only people care to look for it. I have

:36:14.:36:15.

seen evidence that medical records were altered without people's

:36:16.:36:17.

consent and false entries included. That is potentially a criminal

:36:18.:36:19.

matter. Next month, I hope to persuade you to allow me to use the

:36:20.:36:22.

adjournment to present a dossier of such evidence, just as amended

:36:23.:36:24.

police statements reopened Hillsborough. I believe that

:36:25.:36:25.

evidence of amended medical records must reopen the contaminated blood

:36:26.:36:29.

scandal. The fact that these victims remain in the darkest of

:36:30.:36:38.

wildernesses show that Hillsborough has not changed our country yet but

:36:39.:36:42.

I am hopeful that it will do so. If this bill becomes law, it will trade

:36:43.:36:46.

a permanent legislative legacy for the 96 people who died on April 15

:36:47.:36:51.

1989. Last year, the Prime Minister has the right reverend bishop James

:36:52.:36:55.

Jones to conduct a review of the experience of the Hillsborough

:36:56.:36:58.

families. On the half of the House I would like to thank the Bishop for

:36:59.:37:02.

his incredible service to those families and everybody affected by

:37:03.:37:06.

the tragedy and respectfully ask him to consider adopting this bill as

:37:07.:37:11.

part of his recommendations. In this country, we like to talk of

:37:12.:37:16.

ourselves as a paragon of democracy and the rule of law. But I finish,

:37:17.:37:21.

Mr Speaker, by asking this of every member in this House. Think of the

:37:22.:37:26.

constituents that you have met and your surgeries who have spent years

:37:27.:37:31.

fighting for justice. Picture now the lines on their faces, the black

:37:32.:37:36.

shadows beneath their eyes. Then ask yourself this, is this country they

:37:37.:37:41.

to people who, through no fault of their own, find themselves fighting

:37:42.:37:45.

for loved ones? We all mouldy answer. No. The fight is too hard

:37:46.:37:49.

and it takes too great a tall, is too hard and it takes too great a

:37:50.:37:53.

tall, it grinds people down. To claim. -- it takes too great a toll.

:37:54.:37:59.

There is a possibility that I will not be in this House long enough to

:38:00.:38:04.

see this bill become a law, but I have enough faith in the humanity of

:38:05.:38:09.

both sides that one day it will. The question is that the right

:38:10.:38:12.

honourable member have leave to bring in the bill. As many as are of

:38:13.:38:19.

that opinion say aye. The contrary, no. The ayes have it, the ayes have

:38:20.:38:24.

it. Who brings in the Bill? Steve Rotherham, Maria legal, Derek Twigg,

:38:25.:38:29.

Alison McGovern, the Leicester seven, Sir -- Sir Peter Bottomley,

:38:30.:38:37.

Jess Phillips, Tim Farron, Mark Durkin, Christopher Stevens,

:38:38.:38:39.

Caroline Lucas, Alec Shelbrooke and myself, Mr Speaker.

:38:40.:38:53.

Public authority accountability bill. Second reading what they?

:38:54.:39:26.

Friday 12th of May. Order. We now come to the emergency debate under

:39:27.:39:28.

Standing Order number 24. Debbie Abrahams. Thank you, Mr Speaker, and

:39:29.:39:40.

thank you for granting this vital debate on the new personal

:39:41.:39:43.

independence payment regulations. While I welcome the chance to debate

:39:44.:39:48.

this issue, it's highly regrettable the Government has had to be dragged

:39:49.:39:53.

to the House to take account for this nasty piece of legislation. The

:39:54.:39:58.

Government has ignored to urgent questions on this matter, and early

:39:59.:40:05.

day motion signed by 179 members calling on these punitive

:40:06.:40:10.

regulations to be annulled, and over 185,000 people who signed the

:40:11.:40:16.

petition asking the Government not to make these changes. When pushed

:40:17.:40:21.

at business questions last Thursday, the Leader of the House said there

:40:22.:40:25.

would be a debate but not when, and last night it became clear that the

:40:26.:40:29.

19th of April has now been scheduled. What kind of arrogance or

:40:30.:40:35.

disregard for democracy is the Government revealing? This does not

:40:36.:40:40.

go well for a accountability to this place in future negotiations. For

:40:41.:40:47.

the record, today's debate does not allow a substantive vote on the

:40:48.:40:52.

regulations and big cars the Government has not allowed a debate

:40:53.:40:57.

before the EDM period comes to an end on the 3rd of April, they will

:40:58.:41:02.

not be automatically revoked should the House vote against them on the

:41:03.:41:08.

19th. I would be grateful for an explanation as to why when we rose

:41:09.:41:12.

twice this week the Government could not find time for this debate before

:41:13.:41:18.

the Easter recess. By delaying the debate the Government hopes the

:41:19.:41:21.

objection to these regulations will be kicked into the long grass but it

:41:22.:41:29.

will not. Let's remind ourselves how these emergency regulations were

:41:30.:41:31.

introduced and what they'd changed. I will. I'm grateful to her for

:41:32.:41:39.

giving way and thank her own behalf of many of my constituents for

:41:40.:41:43.

bringing about this motion does she agree that the least we owe it to

:41:44.:41:48.

people who through no fault of their own have found themselves in

:41:49.:41:52.

difficult circumstances is to tell them whether the appalling impact on

:41:53.:41:55.

their incomes of decisions made clear were voted for? He makes an

:41:56.:42:03.

excellent point, and this is what we have been trying to do since these

:42:04.:42:07.

of urgency regulations were laid down. These regulations laid down

:42:08.:42:15.

before the House on the 23rd of February and amended the legislation

:42:16.:42:19.

by which people with a chronic condition are to be assessed for

:42:20.:42:23.

eligibility to personal independence payment. They came into force two

:42:24.:42:29.

weeks ago. The new regulations followed to tribunal rulings, the

:42:30.:42:36.

first judgment in November 2016 held that needing support to take

:42:37.:42:40.

medication and monitoring a health condition should be scored in the

:42:41.:42:45.

same way as needing support to monitor therapy like dialysis at

:42:46.:42:50.

home. The second one ruled that people who find it difficult to

:42:51.:42:54.

leave their house because of severe psychological distress should in C

:42:55.:42:58.

-- should receive the enhanced rate of support. In a letter to me last

:42:59.:43:04.

week the Secretary of State said he became aware of these rulings in

:43:05.:43:10.

December. To win the half months later the Government laid there are

:43:11.:43:15.

emergency regulation. I'm sure the arrows me of something taking two

:43:16.:43:20.

and a half months being an urgency has not been lost on you, Mr

:43:21.:43:25.

Speaker. In this time not only were the Government unable to bring these

:43:26.:43:31.

regulations to the size but they bypassed their own Social Security

:43:32.:43:35.

Advisory committee and ignored recommendations for wider engagement

:43:36.:43:39.

to present the changes and analysed their impacts. Isn't that the point

:43:40.:43:47.

that those legal cases broadened the provisions and this order that is

:43:48.:43:52.

under debate is just trying to restore what the policy has been and

:43:53.:43:57.

should be to target support of those who need it most? I will come onto

:43:58.:44:04.

this in a moment because unfortunately members have been

:44:05.:44:09.

hoodwinked by this and I will expose what the Government has said around

:44:10.:44:16.

this. The move undermines and suburbs not just our democracy but

:44:17.:44:21.

independent tribunal judgments. It is unprecedented and should concern

:44:22.:44:25.

us about future action the Government may take in other court

:44:26.:44:30.

cases they lose. It is also unusual for such a fundamental change to be

:44:31.:44:35.

introduced by a negative statutory incident in this way, bypassing

:44:36.:44:42.

debate in this House. It is clear from the huge number of cases I have

:44:43.:44:47.

dealt with but the entire pep system is flawed, it results in appalling

:44:48.:44:53.

decisions and causes distress to thousands of disabled people and

:44:54.:44:59.

their families. There should be an independent review of how

:45:00.:45:02.

assessments are carried out, given the obvious failings in the system.

:45:03.:45:07.

I think she is right, there have been long-term issues around the PAP

:45:08.:45:15.

assessment process but it is interesting, I think it was

:45:16.:45:19.

yesterday that the Government that out but they would be announcing a

:45:20.:45:25.

recent review but tomorrow, just when we have risen for recess. It's

:45:26.:45:32.

a highly unusual situation that we have introduced this negative

:45:33.:45:39.

statutory instrument in this way. On Monday the other place passed a

:45:40.:45:45.

regret motion tabled by Baroness Sherlock asking the Government to

:45:46.:45:48.

reconsider this regulation that this has been denied in the vital period.

:45:49.:45:56.

This is very worrying behaviour from the Government. The minister claims

:45:57.:46:04.

these changes restore PIP do with original policy intentions but they

:46:05.:46:08.

do not hold water. During the consultation in 2012, ministers were

:46:09.:46:13.

quoted saying mental health conditions would be given parity

:46:14.:46:18.

with physical health as part of that PIP assessment. This one from Esther

:46:19.:46:26.

McVey, the assessment was designed to consider intellectual and

:46:27.:46:32.

cognitive impairment stop... The Samaritans produced a report which

:46:33.:46:41.

points to significant association between socioeconomic advantage and

:46:42.:46:46.

suicidal behaviour. The report found that those already vulnerable

:46:47.:46:52.

individuals such as those supported by social welfare with pre-existing

:46:53.:46:57.

mental health problems are at greater risk. It is shocking that

:46:58.:47:03.

the Government have not looked at the risk of suicide for those who

:47:04.:47:06.

will be denied support for their mental health. I agree, and another

:47:07.:47:15.

honourable friend gave a moving account of how one of her

:47:16.:47:19.

constituents was a fact did buy this and unfortunately took their own

:47:20.:47:27.

life last week, and I will. Does my honourable friend I agree the

:47:28.:47:32.

Government seems to be in a place where the NHS is catching up with

:47:33.:47:35.

the need to treat mental health conditions properly at the other

:47:36.:47:42.

public services, whether DWP or the Prison Service, is stuck in the past

:47:43.:47:49.

and this must change. My honourable friend is right and this makes a

:47:50.:47:52.

mockery of the claim around parity of esteem. If I could finish this

:47:53.:48:00.

point, my honourable friend mentions rightly about what the NHS is trying

:48:01.:48:08.

to do but sadly there are still issues with treatment for mental

:48:09.:48:12.

health conditions. I will make some progress and then come back. The

:48:13.:48:18.

Government's response to the PIP consultation reiterated that

:48:19.:48:23.

psychological distress would be included in the assessment, as did

:48:24.:48:27.

the Government in the Upper tribunal case of each bell wire the Secretary

:48:28.:48:36.

of State for Work and Pensions. Investors also said people with

:48:37.:48:39.

mental health disorders who suffer psychological distress would not

:48:40.:48:44.

lose out on PIP but under the new guidelines for assessment issued

:48:45.:48:50.

this March, it says descriptors see, the and Beth are amended and the

:48:51.:48:59.

effects of psychological distress, are not relevant -- C, D and R. They

:49:00.:49:10.

cannot score the 12 points needed if they are to get the enhanced PIP

:49:11.:49:16.

mobility rate, so instead of ?57 per week they were now only get ?22 a

:49:17.:49:25.

week. In recent months I have had 44 PIP cases in my constituency, dozens

:49:26.:49:31.

going to appeal. Of the eight that I've gone to appeal, everyone has

:49:32.:49:39.

been overturned. This is a massive and inexcusable waste of time, money

:49:40.:49:44.

and resources. I think the red two points I would like to make, first

:49:45.:49:52.

of all the Association of bill health and disability around former

:49:53.:49:59.

industrial areas. And then, as he says, about the impact of these

:50:00.:50:06.

assessments and they cannot be got right first time, why is that? Why

:50:07.:50:11.

has the Government not been able to get these assessments right first

:50:12.:50:17.

time? Will he give me two minutes? I will make a little more progress.

:50:18.:50:23.

Someone who experiences psychological distress because of a

:50:24.:50:25.

mental health condition can score at ten points for the river Dee of

:50:26.:50:31.

planning and following a journey unless they also have a cognitive

:50:32.:50:35.

sensory or physical empowerment, falling short of the 12 points

:50:36.:50:40.

needed to qualify for the higher rate. In a 2016 case the upper

:50:41.:50:48.

tribunal ruled that psychological distress by itself cannot satisfy

:50:49.:50:56.

descriptors under activity two unless the psychological distress

:50:57.:51:00.

causes a change in someone's physical condition, so it is these

:51:01.:51:06.

regulations, not the rulings, that undermine the intention of the

:51:07.:51:11.

primary legislation by restricting people with ability severely limited

:51:12.:51:16.

by their mental health condition from qualifying for the advanced

:51:17.:51:25.

rate. I thank her for giving way, it's important we get these

:51:26.:51:30.

regulations right but with the Shadow Minister accept that more

:51:31.:51:34.

people with mental health conditions qualify under PAP than under old DLA

:51:35.:51:43.

regulations? No, I would not, the mental health charity Mind has

:51:44.:51:51.

produced data which shows that 55% of DLA claimants who are supported

:51:52.:51:56.

with a mental health condition will receive no or a reduced level when

:51:57.:52:03.

they transferred to PIP, so it is another fallacy from this

:52:04.:52:06.

Government... I thank her for giving weight again. She might have

:52:07.:52:11.

suggested members on this side have been hoodwinked, I'm sure she was

:52:12.:52:16.

not suggesting the minister plays with other than a straight bat, and

:52:17.:52:22.

over a quarter of those on PIP received the highest level of

:52:23.:52:27.

support, much higher then working age payments under the old DLA, so

:52:28.:52:32.

isn't this targeting resources at those who need it most? I don't see

:52:33.:52:42.

the logic at all. It doesn't make sense, I'm sorry, I will certainly

:52:43.:52:50.

come onto that in a bit more detail because we must dispel some of the

:52:51.:52:55.

fallacies that this Government has come out with over the last few

:52:56.:53:01.

weeks. Before he intervenes, there are ten other members who wish to

:53:02.:53:06.

make speeches in the debate, including the minister, the

:53:07.:53:11.

honourable lady is being generous that not only with her own time but

:53:12.:53:16.

with time that would otherwise be available to others and may want to

:53:17.:53:20.

tailor her contribution accordingly. I wouldn't take much credence from

:53:21.:53:28.

planted with's questions from the backbench, but the other element of

:53:29.:53:32.

this which is concerning is those people who when they fail and

:53:33.:53:37.

assessment can make their mental health position worse and in some

:53:38.:53:40.

cases it ends up with them going into hospital, another cost to the

:53:41.:53:49.

NHS. I couldn't agree more, that is such irrelevant point and it hasn't

:53:50.:53:54.

been factored into this in the silo approach this Government is taking.

:53:55.:53:58.

The third justification used for bringing in these regulations is

:53:59.:54:05.

that PIP is more generous to those with mental health conditions and

:54:06.:54:11.

the mental health charity repeats this, their database on the DWP's

:54:12.:54:18.

own statistics revealed that 55% of people with mental health conditions

:54:19.:54:24.

previously supported by the late get reduced or no awards when they

:54:25.:54:32.

transferred to PIP. The Government's own data shows only 12% of people

:54:33.:54:36.

with mental health disorder or another condition are on the

:54:37.:54:42.

enhanced award. These regulations are just a shameful cut, the

:54:43.:54:46.

Government balancing books on the back of the sick and disabled. The

:54:47.:54:55.

new regulations will affect more than 120,000 people by 2023, many of

:54:56.:55:01.

these will be new applicants but also those being reassessed. They

:55:02.:55:06.

will not be eligible for the full support they would have been

:55:07.:55:11.

entitled to under the tribunal's rulings, and accepted cut of ?3.7

:55:12.:55:13.

billion. Pip helps people who are disabled to

:55:14.:55:23.

fund their living costs. The disability charity Scope has

:55:24.:55:26.

estimated that these additional costs amount to ?550 a month. And

:55:27.:55:32.

the key reason disabled people are twice as likely to live in poverty

:55:33.:55:38.

as non-disabled people. For someone who may not be able to leave their

:55:39.:55:41.

own home on their own, it will help with heating costs or it may pay for

:55:42.:55:44.

someone to assist them when they have to travel to medical

:55:45.:55:48.

apartments. Pip is a vital source of income to prevent hardship and to

:55:49.:55:52.

the shame of this government, they are denying this support. I thank

:55:53.:56:02.

you for giving way. Do you also agree that being able to receive the

:56:03.:56:06.

Pip funding is also part of somebody's rehabilitation to help

:56:07.:56:13.

them back into the workplace? Absolutely. My honourable friend has

:56:14.:56:18.

first-hand experience of that in her former professional capacity. I have

:56:19.:56:21.

been contacted by so many people telling me their stories of living

:56:22.:56:24.

with a severe mental health problem and how this affects them, including

:56:25.:56:28.

men and women from the armed and emergency services. I just wanted to

:56:29.:56:33.

share Bob's story with you. Bob started in the police service in

:56:34.:56:36.

Liverpool and then went into the prison service. After 20 years, he

:56:37.:56:40.

said he started to experience the need to escape from the cells and

:56:41.:56:43.

inmates by locking himself into the rest room for a few minutes. Over

:56:44.:56:49.

the years, this graduated to cluster headaches and a full-blown anxiety

:56:50.:56:52.

and panic attacks. After a period of sick leave, he left the service. The

:56:53.:56:57.

attacks continued, though, and he eventually sought psychiatric

:56:58.:57:02.

treatment, when he was declared disabled by virtue of his

:57:03.:57:06.

debilitating anxiety attacks. The degree of disability fluctuated, but

:57:07.:57:09.

at times he said it was so severe that he would run from a shopping

:57:10.:57:12.

centre into a car just to feel safe. He said he wanted to work, but when

:57:13.:57:16.

he went for a job interview, he had an attack in the car and by the time

:57:17.:57:20.

he got home, he could barely function, hyperventilating and

:57:21.:57:26.

unable to move. It is people like Bob that these new regulations will

:57:27.:57:32.

deny support too. These changes to Pip come on top of significant cuts

:57:33.:57:37.

to our social security system, with support for disabled people being

:57:38.:57:40.

particularly targeted. Scope has estimated the impacts of the 2012

:57:41.:57:45.

wealth reform act alone will see nearly ?30 billion of cuts in

:57:46.:57:47.

support of 3.7 million disabled people. Next week as we have heard,

:57:48.:57:54.

another ?30 a week will be cut from disabled people who are found not

:57:55.:58:02.

fit for work. The disabled community is tired of this government's

:58:03.:58:07.

rhetoric. They want and need to be treated with dignity, not plunged

:58:08.:58:11.

further into poverty. There is plenty of new evidence to show that

:58:12.:58:15.

this is what is happening since 2010. Will the minister now publish

:58:16.:58:21.

a cumulative impact assessment of all changes and the impact it will

:58:22.:58:26.

have on disabled people? For some time now, there has been concern

:58:27.:58:33.

about the way Pip is working. 65% of those who appeal to the tribunal

:58:34.:58:40.

succeed. Over a quarter of all Pip assessments are challenged and

:58:41.:58:43.

referred for mandatory reconsideration, with the majority

:58:44.:58:46.

of these decisions changed. So why can't we get these assessments right

:58:47.:58:51.

first time? More than 750 people a week are losing the Motability cars

:58:52.:58:56.

because of changes to entitlement when moving to Pip. This is

:58:57.:59:00.

counter-productive for so many disabled people that it makes it

:59:01.:59:04.

nigh impossible for them to work, let alone enable them to live

:59:05.:59:07.

independently. We should never forget that nine out of ten

:59:08.:59:10.

disabilities are acquired. It could happen to any of us. That is what

:59:11.:59:16.

our social security system is for. It is there to provide support for

:59:17.:59:22.

any of us in our time of need. Labour will stand with disabled

:59:23.:59:25.

people who have already borne the brunt of seven years of austerity

:59:26.:59:30.

and injustice. I do not believe that given the choice, the British public

:59:31.:59:35.

would choose cuts in corporation tax over pushing disabled people into

:59:36.:59:41.

destitution or worse. It is exactly a week since the horrendous attack

:59:42.:59:46.

in Westminster, when four people including our colleague PC Keith

:59:47.:59:50.

Palmer were murdered and 50 were injured. The following day, the

:59:51.:59:54.

Prime Minister quite rightly said that she was" looking at what

:59:55.:00:00.

further support can be made available for victims in a wider

:00:01.:00:04.

sense, because there will be people who were not physically injured in

:00:05.:00:08.

the attack, but for whom there may be other scars. It is important to

:00:09.:00:15.

provide that support". But the fact is that with these new regulations,

:00:16.:00:21.

support for people suffering psychological distress is being

:00:22.:00:25.

restricted. Warm words need to be backed up with action. No more cuts

:00:26.:00:28.

in support is on disabled people. Enough is enough. The question is

:00:29.:00:35.

that this House has considered changes to personal independence

:00:36.:00:41.

payment regulations. Can I politely suggest to the House that we weren't

:00:42.:00:47.

at this stage have a formal time limit on backbench speeches, but if

:00:48.:00:50.

each backbench contributor feels able to confine him or herself to

:00:51.:00:55.

five or six minutes or thereabouts, everyone will get in. We will start

:00:56.:01:03.

with the sage from Swindon. Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is a pleasure to

:01:04.:01:09.

speak in this debate. Having spent 14 happy months as the minister

:01:10.:01:14.

responsible for this area, I wanted to pass on some of my observations

:01:15.:01:20.

during that time. To be clear, the stakeholders of the charities do

:01:21.:01:23.

recognise that Pip is a better benefit than DLA. It isn't perfect.

:01:24.:01:28.

There is much more to do to deliver further improvements, but the stats

:01:29.:01:37.

show why it is better. And the DLA, only 16.5% of claimants accessed the

:01:38.:01:41.

highest rate of benefit. Under Pip, that is over 25%. It is particularly

:01:42.:01:46.

better at identifying those with hidden impairments, including mental

:01:47.:01:52.

health, where under DLA only 22% of claimants with a mental health

:01:53.:01:54.

condition access to the higher rate of benefit, where it is 66% under

:01:55.:02:06.

Pip. This is why the improvements have seen the government spending an

:02:07.:02:11.

additional ?3 billion helping those with long term disabilities, which

:02:12.:02:15.

is around 6% of all government spending. Understandably, in all the

:02:16.:02:20.

debates I have attended, people say yes, there is a 65% success rate of

:02:21.:02:24.

appeals, so surely the quality of assessment is not good enough. That

:02:25.:02:29.

is why we have to look at what is going wrong. The majority of the

:02:30.:02:33.

successful appeals are because of late additional submitted evidence.

:02:34.:02:38.

It is these areas we must look to improve. If the system is so good,

:02:39.:02:44.

why do people need to come and see us? We have an almost 100% success

:02:45.:02:49.

rate of getting what that person is entitled to without any intervention

:02:50.:02:57.

from any of us. Because presumably, when a claimant comes to speak to

:02:58.:03:00.

any of us as members of Parliament, we will talk to them about where

:03:01.:03:05.

they feel the decision wasn't right. When they get the letter that

:03:06.:03:07.

doesn't give them the benefit they were hoping for, it spells out why.

:03:08.:03:11.

And that normally triggers the claimant to think they have not

:03:12.:03:15.

considered this particular challenge and they will then submit additional

:03:16.:03:19.

late evidence, and then it is looked at again and a different decision is

:03:20.:03:24.

arrived at, which doesn't mean the original decision was wrong based on

:03:25.:03:27.

the facts presented, which is one of the reasons why I am keen to see a

:03:28.:03:34.

way the assessors can automatically assessed the medical records for the

:03:35.:03:41.

claimant with their consent. For a lot of people, you have to fill in

:03:42.:03:49.

your 50 page form. And you sometimes understate the challenges you face.

:03:50.:04:01.

He is wrong. With my constituents, the assessors don't even consider

:04:02.:04:04.

the evidence, even when it is taken with them. And when I have

:04:05.:04:07.

intervened, that is when it gets overturned. The system is not

:04:08.:04:15.

working. Well, I am not wrong. The majority of successful appeals are

:04:16.:04:18.

because of late additional submitted evidence. I appreciate the

:04:19.:04:30.

honourable gentleman giving way. In my constituency, people are taking

:04:31.:04:34.

deckchairs at early hours of the morning, 5am or 6am, in order to

:04:35.:04:39.

queue outside Citizens Advice Bureau. Isn't this thirsty adding to

:04:40.:04:44.

the stress, and shouldn't it be clearer that they can get the

:04:45.:04:52.

assessment that they need? I am trying to explain what we can do to

:04:53.:04:56.

help improve... There are cases where there are mistakes. 1.5

:04:57.:05:01.

million people are going through the Pip process. But we know the Pip

:05:02.:05:07.

process is better than DLA because we are spending ?3 billion more and

:05:08.:05:10.

the success rate to get those with the highest rate of challenges on to

:05:11.:05:13.

the highest rate of benefit is the proof in the pudding. But this

:05:14.:05:18.

debate is because there has been a legal judgment that has suggested

:05:19.:05:20.

that there are areas where additional money should be spent. As

:05:21.:05:25.

I have argued when we had the urgent question, if we are going to spend

:05:26.:05:28.

money to make further improvements, it needs to be done in a coordinated

:05:29.:05:36.

manner, not in an ad hoc way. The way this works is, we have lots of

:05:37.:05:40.

impressive charities with great policy teams, and they come in and

:05:41.:05:43.

lobby based on the experiences of their users. We as MPs also raise

:05:44.:05:56.

suggestions for improvements. We have already seen significant

:05:57.:06:04.

changes. The much-needed changes for claimants, the fact that waiting

:06:05.:06:07.

times have improved after a difficult start when Pip was first

:06:08.:06:12.

rolled out, as we chance for people from DLA to Pip, it is rightly being

:06:13.:06:19.

done so as not to compromise waiting times. The assessment qualities are

:06:20.:06:28.

improving month on month. There are more areas to work on, but I have

:06:29.:06:34.

spent many times meeting the smaller charities where you have less common

:06:35.:06:39.

conditions coming forward, who would then spend time helping train the

:06:40.:06:43.

assessors, rewriting the manual so that they are picked up in the

:06:44.:06:51.

assessment. And also for the first time, looking at the timings of when

:06:52.:06:55.

people should come back for reassessment. Under the old DLA

:06:56.:06:59.

system, 70% of claimants were on a lifetime award. But one in three

:07:00.:07:03.

claimants' condition changes significantly within 12 months and

:07:04.:07:07.

they should be on a different benefit, the majority of which were

:07:08.:07:10.

getting worse, not better and should be entitled to a higher rate of

:07:11.:07:14.

benefit. But a lot of people did and then phone up and say can I present

:07:15.:07:17.

myself for reassessment, so they were missing out on the benefits

:07:18.:07:18.

they should have entered at a lower rate

:07:19.:07:33.

of benefit and they can see that you are likely to worsen in your

:07:34.:07:35.

condition and would access a higher rate of benefit, it will

:07:36.:07:37.

automatically assess when that should be and that will trigger a

:07:38.:07:39.

reassessment to make sure people most in need get that money at the

:07:40.:07:46.

best possible time. I do not always agree with the Government on well

:07:47.:07:50.

for, but I believe the assessments have been improving. My concerns are

:07:51.:07:54.

that the 50 page application form is not improving and people are

:07:55.:08:01.

struggling. And access to the assessments where people are being

:08:02.:08:04.

put in taxis for up to an hour is also an increasing problem. My

:08:05.:08:11.

honourable friend was one of the greatest advocates for pushing for

:08:12.:08:16.

changes and I had many constructive and challenging meetings with him as

:08:17.:08:19.

he brought forward suggestions. That is the point, to look at this in a

:08:20.:08:24.

coordinated manner. There are further improvements for the

:08:25.:08:27.

application form and the way some of the descriptors are applied. The

:08:28.:08:33.

Government is considering ordering the automatic recording of all

:08:34.:08:36.

assessments so that that can be used in the appeal, and that would

:08:37.:08:40.

benefit both the assessors and the claimants who have been asking for

:08:41.:08:47.

this. Broadly, I agree that the Pip process is a work in progress and

:08:48.:08:51.

needs to get better. I could give you many stories of my experience of

:08:52.:08:55.

where it is going wrong. I agreed a gradual change is a great thing, but

:08:56.:08:59.

the courts have given us a loud and clear message - on mental health,

:09:00.:09:04.

you have got it wrong. In this age when we are desperately trying to

:09:05.:09:13.

change the understanding of mental health, the courts have given us the

:09:14.:09:18.

decision for a reason. I understand the point, but it has to be done in

:09:19.:09:24.

eight water dated manner. Pip -- has to be done in a co-ordinated manner.

:09:25.:09:36.

If additional money is to be spent, it should be done on speeding up the

:09:37.:09:40.

appeals process. This is a problem for those with a Motability car who

:09:41.:09:43.

could lose the car before their appeal is heard. There should be

:09:44.:09:52.

automatic access to medical records and where possible to shed that

:09:53.:09:56.

between the CSA assessment and the Pip assessment because often, they

:09:57.:10:02.

are similar and that would make the claimant's life easier. We also need

:10:03.:10:05.

to do more signposting for additional help. We are spending

:10:06.:10:09.

more as a government supporting people with mental health

:10:10.:10:12.

conditions. The biggest challenge is often identifying people with mental

:10:13.:10:15.

health conditions to give them the support that is being brought

:10:16.:10:19.

forward. Pip is good at identifying them and we should be offering those

:10:20.:10:22.

additional areas of support and saying to them, these are the sorts

:10:23.:10:28.

of services available in this area and you can take advantage of them.

:10:29.:10:35.

I urge the minister to continue to work with those policy teams. I

:10:36.:10:39.

spoke to Macmillan yesterday. They were grateful for the ability to

:10:40.:10:43.

continue to access senior ministers and discuss suggestions. We have

:10:44.:10:47.

some brilliant stakeholders and knowledge of double charities. Let

:10:48.:10:50.

them help where further improvements will be.

:10:51.:10:55.

It is a relief we're having this debate on the floor of the House, I

:10:56.:11:02.

never like to thank you for following it up. It is a shame that

:11:03.:11:06.

only matter like this the houses had to be dragged the Government to the

:11:07.:11:12.

dispatch box to be held accountable weeks of refusal. As we have heard,

:11:13.:11:17.

197 honourable members across eight different parties have signed to

:11:18.:11:24.

annul the statutory changes. The truth is that the Government had

:11:25.:11:27.

been shying away from accountability from the start. They initially

:11:28.:11:33.

refused to comply with the tribunal support ruling by bringing forward

:11:34.:11:36.

these changes in the first place and then didn't have the decency not

:11:37.:11:41.

courtesy to refer a draft of the red elation to the social society that

:11:42.:11:47.

Security advisory committee. If they are so confident that these big

:11:48.:11:51.

relations will hold up, why have they avoided due process and tried

:11:52.:11:54.

to speak the changes through the back door? My party will not allow

:11:55.:11:59.

the Government to take these are unfair backward steps. These changes

:12:00.:12:07.

will affect 150,000 people, losing out on PIP to is what the cost of

:12:08.:12:11.

living with a disability. It will save the Government ?3.7 billion.

:12:12.:12:21.

Given that this marked hypocrisy, it has been said Government would not

:12:22.:12:25.

seek to make any further cuts, is that the reason why they didn't want

:12:26.:12:29.

the regulation scrutinised? It seems fitting that with the current

:12:30.:12:32.

Government's attitude to PIP and the assessment that they will sneak up

:12:33.:12:37.

the second independent route review on Thursday, the day the House rises

:12:38.:12:42.

for Easter recess. What are they so scared that they have shared the

:12:43.:12:46.

release of this report in order that they can face no immediate scrutiny?

:12:47.:12:51.

During the passage of the welfare reform act 2012, which established a

:12:52.:12:55.

new personal independent payment system, ministers were clear that it

:12:56.:13:00.

was an important step that be want to see between the physical and

:13:01.:13:04.

mental health. Ministers even talked about the descriptors for the

:13:05.:13:07.

mobility component, taking into account ability to plan a journey,

:13:08.:13:14.

and PIP was designed to assess barriers that individuals face and

:13:15.:13:19.

not make judgments based on their... PIP is supposed to support people

:13:20.:13:23.

with additional disabilities. We have heard about the court ruling

:13:24.:13:26.

which these changes seek to undermine. It ruled that he will

:13:27.:13:30.

find it hard to leave the House because of anxiety, panic attacks

:13:31.:13:34.

and other mental health problems should be up to receive a higher

:13:35.:13:38.

rate of PIP. I have said before, but it bears repeating. Doesn't this run

:13:39.:13:48.

the risk of increasing stigma of mental health? It is saying to

:13:49.:13:53.

people clearly that anxiety, causing you to stay inside, is not something

:13:54.:13:57.

that is serious? And doesn't conflict with the principle of equal

:13:58.:13:59.

treatment between mental and physical health? Thank you for his

:14:00.:14:07.

intervention, I completely agree. We should not treat one disability

:14:08.:14:13.

differently from another. As I said, this Government cannot simply change

:14:14.:14:16.

the goalposts every time it loses a battle in court. These regulations

:14:17.:14:21.

do nothing more than pander to the old attitudes and stigmas was mental

:14:22.:14:27.

illness. At the FA person needs help, they need it regardless of the

:14:28.:14:33.

nature of the disability. Evidence to the lord Secretary legislation

:14:34.:14:37.

committee in Scotland and allies of Scotland's major disability

:14:38.:14:40.

organisations raise the number of concerns regarding the changes. They

:14:41.:14:46.

said they disagree with the Government's presentation of the

:14:47.:14:50.

change. It is clear the version from the state of names from the

:14:51.:14:55.

legislation in 2012 which was intended to award in hands mobility

:14:56.:14:59.

component if a person's mobility is severely limited by their physical

:15:00.:15:04.

or mental condition. Essentially the Government is intended to try and

:15:05.:15:09.

spin their way out of this, by stigmatising those with severe

:15:10.:15:13.

mental health conditions. Disability Scotland also say that current

:15:14.:15:18.

recipients will lose out in future awards despite no change to their

:15:19.:15:21.

condition if they are reassessed under the new criteria. It will come

:15:22.:15:28.

as no shock that the DWP's own shows that the garment has no idea of the

:15:29.:15:32.

long-term impact, basically don't care. They are happy to Bush forward

:15:33.:15:38.

with a move that basically and distinct distinction between people

:15:39.:15:40.

with different conditions against the ruling of the court. They are

:15:41.:15:45.

clearly concerns about the assessment process. The Scottish

:15:46.:15:52.

Association issued a report which sets this out. One of the main

:15:53.:15:55.

themes that run through it is the distrust of the process. Someone

:15:56.:15:59.

responding said, people advise you not to shave, turn up dishevelled to

:16:00.:16:05.

show that mentally you are unwell. Just because you are articulate

:16:06.:16:09.

doesn't mean you don't have an mental health condition. There is to

:16:10.:16:12.

be no consistency in the assessment process and yet the Government keeps

:16:13.:16:16.

shifting sands a piecemeal way which only exacerbates the problem and the

:16:17.:16:20.

impact of the life of those I tried to claim what they are entitled to.

:16:21.:16:25.

We already know the Government have form at pulling the safety net from

:16:26.:16:29.

those who are desperately with life-threatening indices. Such is

:16:30.:16:33.

the impact of sanctions on people with mental health conditions that

:16:34.:16:38.

there is become destitute and dependent on food bank. They are not

:16:39.:16:45.

keen... It seems like a Government it is doing everything it can to

:16:46.:16:50.

make people dependent on support rather than empowering to live

:16:51.:16:55.

independent lives. This means nothing to the Government when they

:16:56.:16:58.

have instructed private companies to carry out assessments to only awards

:16:59.:17:04.

in the high rate of mobility component of people with physical or

:17:05.:17:08.

sensory impairments. The Scottish Government is determined to build a

:17:09.:17:11.

social security system that puts dignity and fairness at heart. When

:17:12.:17:15.

the process of building assessment taking over responsibility is

:17:16.:17:24.

ongoing,... And grateful for her to give way. Television show her that

:17:25.:17:31.

is also affects seats like my own, which I called metropolitan or

:17:32.:17:35.

elitist or suburban. We have had 120 cases of this recently, and the

:17:36.:17:41.

thing that people keep pointing out, it's another example how the

:17:42.:17:45.

Government says one thing and does another. I thank the Honourable lady

:17:46.:17:54.

for her intervention and agree. Most of us have constituents chewing up

:17:55.:17:59.

at the door with issues of PIP. I hope the lessons can be learned from

:18:00.:18:04.

this debate. The Government should stop forcing through important

:18:05.:18:07.

legislation to the back door, that they should consult with their own

:18:08.:18:12.

security advisory committee, and that they should not have to be

:18:13.:18:16.

dragged to the dispatch box in an emergency debate simply because they

:18:17.:18:19.

haven't given how House the answers. They haven't even waited on the

:18:20.:18:24.

second independent review on PIP four-minute relating the system. The

:18:25.:18:28.

minister needs to stop mucking about, back away from these ill

:18:29.:18:32.

judged and ill thought out changes, and bring forward a vote to annul

:18:33.:18:36.

the regulations, if they do not then it goes to show their intent to

:18:37.:18:41.

build on legislation without scrutiny and in spite of the

:18:42.:18:45.

independent judicial ruling. The bottom line is these changes are

:18:46.:18:49.

being implemented to save the Government money. No matter the cost

:18:50.:18:52.

to our communities and those with mental health conditions. This is no

:18:53.:18:57.

way to treat our people in society. I am asking the Government to

:18:58.:19:03.

reconsider. Can ask members to stick to five minutes each? And their work

:19:04.:19:09.

be time for a proper ministerial response about which members will

:19:10.:19:13.

then understandably be the first to complain. Five minutes each. It is a

:19:14.:19:19.

pleasure to speak in this important debate. I appreciate the concern set

:19:20.:19:26.

out by the honourable lady, but the bigger picture is clear. The

:19:27.:19:29.

Government spends ?50 billion a year to support people with disabilities

:19:30.:19:35.

and health conditions, as increase of ?7 billion is 2010. The

:19:36.:19:38.

Government moved away from a disability living allowance to PIP

:19:39.:19:41.

on the basis that support should be given to those experiencing the

:19:42.:19:44.

greatest barriers to live independently. PIP support people

:19:45.:19:48.

with the overall level of need and not on the basis of a specific

:19:49.:19:54.

medical condition. It is based on their freedom to live independently

:19:55.:19:58.

and how it is impaired. I am chair of the all-party Parliamentary group

:19:59.:20:06.

of on visual impairment. I let the debate yesterday on preventing

:20:07.:20:10.

avoidable sight loss. In many sight loss cases, they are unavoidable.

:20:11.:20:14.

How we support those in limited ability to live independently is

:20:15.:20:17.

important. Sight loss at that nearly 2 million people in the UK, and a

:20:18.:20:23.

huge personal challenges and people with sight loss how to live

:20:24.:20:27.

independently can never be underestimated. To my work with the

:20:28.:20:30.

cross-party group, I have seen first-hand the Government's

:20:31.:20:33.

commitment to helping people dealing with sight loss. Last year the

:20:34.:20:42.

employment minister, is alerted a meeting with her team to help blind

:20:43.:20:49.

and partially sighted people. My honourable friend will be made in

:20:50.:20:54.

her soon to see our PIP can best help people with sight loss. I am

:20:55.:20:58.

grateful to her and the DWP ministers for their focus on this.

:20:59.:21:01.

I'm sure that she would agree with me that they do commendable work and

:21:02.:21:06.

would urge people who are blind or partially sighted to contact RNIB

:21:07.:21:12.

are created a toolkit to compete the pitfall effectively, to deal with

:21:13.:21:17.

the daily living component. I would like to share with the personal

:21:18.:21:23.

experiences of PIP which have been collated by the RNIB and are

:21:24.:21:29.

available on their website. Research and evidence was gathered, and the

:21:30.:21:36.

key findings of this study which reflected real-life experiences of

:21:37.:21:39.

people with sensory loss and visual impairment is that those

:21:40.:21:44.

participants who transitioned from DLA to PIP reported a positive

:21:45.:21:53.

financial outcome with PIP. However I hope the minister will reflect on

:21:54.:21:57.

the feedback of the process which some found confusing, and that

:21:58.:22:06.

assessors always work to deliver a positive experience face-to-face,

:22:07.:22:10.

regardless. The evidence shows that in this study, switching from DLA to

:22:11.:22:15.

PIP met a more positive financial outcome and that is welcome. Members

:22:16.:22:22.

opposite have accused the Government of betraying people with mental

:22:23.:22:27.

health conditions. The Government is spending ?11.4 billion on mental

:22:28.:22:32.

health this year alone. There are more people with mental health

:22:33.:22:35.

conditions receiving enhanced PIP daily living and mobility rates that

:22:36.:22:38.

were previously getting the equivalent under DLA. There isn't

:22:39.:22:46.

enough time for everyone to get in. 66% of people on PIP with a mental

:22:47.:22:55.

health condition save it in the highest rate of DLA. I will finish

:22:56.:22:59.

my focusing on the Government's record helping disabled people into

:23:00.:23:03.

work. Since 2013, the number of disabled people into work has

:23:04.:23:08.

increased by 500,000. There at the site last item bottom of the table

:23:09.:23:12.

and I hope we can do more to ensure that they can... She is making a

:23:13.:23:17.

very good speech with valuable points. It has nothing whatsoever to

:23:18.:23:23.

do the regulation under discussion today. Chair has to make a judgment

:23:24.:23:32.

about pertinence. At this stage, I am content with my own judgment. At

:23:33.:23:36.

the right honourable gentleman is not, I shall do my best to bear the

:23:37.:23:40.

burden with such stoicism and fortitude as I am able to muster. We

:23:41.:23:49.

have heard excuses where PIP isn't working, but I want to share

:23:50.:23:52.

experiences where it is working and that is important. The point I was

:23:53.:23:56.

trying to make is we have many more people with disabilities going back

:23:57.:23:59.

into work, I want to make sure the campaign- those with sight loss that

:24:00.:24:05.

they have those opportunities. We have happened million more people

:24:06.:24:08.

benefiting from opportunities, secure work, they can support

:24:09.:24:15.

families and loved ones. They're supporting themselves and their

:24:16.:24:19.

communities and the economy, and I thank the honourable lady for giving

:24:20.:24:22.

us the opportunity to reflect on that and welcome those figures as

:24:23.:24:30.

well. I want to congratulate her on Security thing that I see during

:24:31.:24:36.

this debate. I want to challenge some of the assertions made by the

:24:37.:24:39.

Secretary of State in commenting on these changes. I've no doubt that

:24:40.:24:44.

the comments he made were made in good faith, but I think they were

:24:45.:24:47.

incorrect. In particular, these changes do not restore the original

:24:48.:24:53.

intentions of the benefit. The changes are clearly a cut, the

:24:54.:25:01.

secretary said yesterday they weren't. They are and the effect a

:25:02.:25:05.

substantial number of people. The analysis produced by the Department

:25:06.:25:10.

tellers that the current caseload, 143,000 people would have had their

:25:11.:25:13.

current mobility of what the dues to zero if they had been made under the

:25:14.:25:20.

new regulations. At other 21,000, with Irvine it reduced. This is not

:25:21.:25:24.

a minor or insignificant cut, it is a substantial one affecting a large

:25:25.:25:29.

amount of people. Table six in the assessment held as, title conditions

:25:30.:25:36.

most likely affected by reversing effective upper tribunal judgment

:25:37.:25:42.

and mobility activity one, and the list includes schizophrenia,

:25:43.:25:45.

learning disability, autism, cognitive disorder due to stroke,

:25:46.:25:48.

dementia and post-traumatic stress disorder. According to the

:25:49.:25:53.

Government, those are the people most affected. I will give way.

:25:54.:26:01.

My right honourable friend clearly there is something about the new

:26:02.:26:07.

regulations. I do as well. Those with psychological illness cannot

:26:08.:26:12.

now qualify for renowned mobility because activity 11E only attracts a

:26:13.:26:22.

certain number of points. This is clearly a cut by the Government.

:26:23.:26:32.

They should just fess up. The Secretary of State did tell us at

:26:33.:26:35.

the beginning that no body would see their current benefit being cut. It

:26:36.:26:39.

is now accepted by ministers that that statement was incorrect. I just

:26:40.:26:46.

want to read one paragraph, paragraph four. "In The table in

:26:47.:26:53.

part three ( mobility activities ), in relation to activity one (

:26:54.:27:05.

planning and following journeys ) cannot for reasons other than

:27:06.:27:09.

psychological distress". So the changes explicitly carve out people,

:27:10.:27:16.

if they cannot go on a journey because of psychological distress.

:27:17.:27:23.

They have said people with cognitive impairments can still qualify, which

:27:24.:27:29.

may well be the case. But that is a different group of people. These

:27:30.:27:35.

changes explicitly carve out people whose mobility impairment arises

:27:36.:27:43.

from psychological distress. Was that the original intention? The

:27:44.:27:45.

right honourable member for Basingstoke, on the 7th of February

:27:46.:27:49.

2012, I think she was the predecessor but two to the

:27:50.:27:55.

honourable member for North Swindon, she said this. When considering

:27:56.:27:59.

entitlement to both weights of the mobility component, we will take

:28:00.:28:02.

into account ability to plan and follow a journey in addition to

:28:03.:28:08.

physical ability to get around. Importantly, she said, Pip is

:28:09.:28:15.

designed to assess barriers individual face, not make a judgment

:28:16.:28:21.

based on their impairment. That is a clear statement of the original

:28:22.:28:28.

intent of this benefit. If the Secretary of State has been advised

:28:29.:28:30.

that the original intention was something different, he needs to

:28:31.:28:37.

check the record. These changes are different to that intention. They

:28:38.:28:41.

introduce an explicit judgment based on impairment type. The original

:28:42.:28:47.

intention was to have no such distinction. The regulations

:28:48.:28:53.

introduce a distinction that was not in the original intention of the

:28:54.:28:59.

benefit. The regulations say you are in if you struggle to plan and

:29:00.:29:03.

follow a journey, but if the problem is due to psychological distress,

:29:04.:29:08.

you are out. It is an explicit judgment. It is carving out a large

:29:09.:29:14.

group of people with mental health problems. Doesn't the carve out

:29:15.:29:21.

ultimately amount to nothing but discrimination against those

:29:22.:29:26.

suffering mental distress, and isn't it the case that any references to

:29:27.:29:31.

spending on mental health in any other area is irrelevant to this?

:29:32.:29:35.

This is about discrimination so far as this rule change is concerned. It

:29:36.:29:41.

is explicit in the face of the regulations that that group is being

:29:42.:29:44.

discriminated against, contrary to the original intention that the

:29:45.:29:48.

Secretary of State said he was restoring. The Secretary of State

:29:49.:29:53.

suggests that it was never the intention to include this group of

:29:54.:29:57.

people with mental health problems, but his predecessors at the time

:29:58.:30:01.

told this House that it was the intention to include people,

:30:02.:30:05.

irrespective of their impairment type. That was the intention in

:30:06.:30:11.

2012. These regulations will thwart it. I hope that like the other

:30:12.:30:15.

place, we will say no to these changes. It is a privilege to serve

:30:16.:30:24.

on the work and pensions select committee with the right honourable

:30:25.:30:29.

lady in the last parliament. I want to focus on two areas. First, it is

:30:30.:30:35.

in the case that the Government is using this as a cost-cutting

:30:36.:30:39.

exercise. Secondly, I will address some of the comments made by members

:30:40.:30:44.

opposite on mental health and physical conditions regarding Pip.

:30:45.:30:48.

We spend ?50 billion a year on benefits to support people with

:30:49.:30:53.

disabilities and health conditions, up from 7 billion since 2010. So

:30:54.:31:01.

rather than being subject to austerity, the Government has

:31:02.:31:04.

increased its spending. That is 6% of all government spending or 2% of

:31:05.:31:08.

GDP, significantly more than countries like France and Germany

:31:09.:31:14.

and above the OECD average. It is more than we spend on defence of the

:31:15.:31:19.

realm. It is not, as some members have made out, a cost-cutting

:31:20.:31:23.

exercise. The Government has been clear that it will seek no further

:31:24.:31:27.

savings through welfare this Parliament. I am asking my right

:31:28.:31:29.

honourable friend to reassure the House that she will continue to

:31:30.:31:34.

defend the disability budget. These changes restore the original aim of

:31:35.:31:37.

the policy by clarifying the assessment criteria to make sure

:31:38.:31:41.

support is targeted on those that need it most. Nobody will receive

:31:42.:31:47.

any less money than they have previously been awarded. This is not

:31:48.:31:52.

about making savings. Pip was widely debated and voted upon in this House

:31:53.:31:54.

during the coalition government. Over two thirds of Pip recipients

:31:55.:32:10.

with a mental health condition received the enhanced living

:32:11.:32:12.

component compared with 22% who used to receive the higher rate under

:32:13.:32:17.

DLA. This Government is investing more in mental health support than

:32:18.:32:21.

any before it. A record of 11.4 billion this year. Parity between

:32:22.:32:26.

mental and physical conditions is a core principle at the heart of Pip's

:32:27.:32:32.

design, and awards are made dependent on the claimant's overall

:32:33.:32:36.

level of need regardless of whether the condition is mental or physical.

:32:37.:32:41.

As well as increasing spending on disabilities, this Government is

:32:42.:32:44.

challenging attitudes towards disability through initiatives like

:32:45.:32:48.

disability confident. Last year, I and many members of this House held

:32:49.:32:53.

my first disability confident fair, bringing together 20 local

:32:54.:33:00.

businesses and supporting agencies to encourage employers to consider

:33:01.:33:08.

taking on residents. The honourable gentleman says parity of esteem

:33:09.:33:11.

applies to the way Pip works, but the right honourable member for East

:33:12.:33:15.

Ham has specifically explained how the carve out of mental distress

:33:16.:33:19.

means that it is clearly discriminatory. Does he not agree? I

:33:20.:33:24.

can't comment on the specific case that the honourable gentleman for

:33:25.:33:29.

East Ham referred to, because I don't know the details. It does vary

:33:30.:33:33.

from case to case, and we can all come out with examples. But in my

:33:34.:33:39.

experience, these changes to Pip have overwhelmingly been better for

:33:40.:33:43.

people with mental illness in my constituency. And overall... I will

:33:44.:33:52.

give way. I would also like to say we have a number of local residents

:33:53.:33:56.

concerned about those with mental health issues having access to the

:33:57.:34:00.

higher rate mobility allowance. This has probably had the unintended

:34:01.:34:04.

consequences, and this is where I would take my write's advice, of

:34:05.:34:09.

young people, post-transition, not being able to have access to their

:34:10.:34:13.

blue badge or disability or mobility access. That is a point I would like

:34:14.:34:22.

her to examine. That is for the minister to answer. In closing, the

:34:23.:34:33.

disability confident fair brought in employers, and I would encourage

:34:34.:34:38.

members across the House to do something similar. I learned a lot

:34:39.:34:42.

about the challenges of my constituents and helped bring

:34:43.:34:51.

employers and residents together. Our government is providing a strong

:34:52.:34:53.

safety net for those who need it. Pip is a more modern and fair

:34:54.:34:59.

benefit than its predecessor of DLA, focusing support on those in our

:35:00.:35:04.

constituency that need it most. Mr Stephen Twigg. I thank my honourable

:35:05.:35:13.

friend for securing this debate and reaffirm the points she made about

:35:14.:35:16.

how disappointing it is that this Government did not find time for a

:35:17.:35:20.

vote on these regulations before they come in. I would say to the

:35:21.:35:24.

government that it does not reflect well on this House or on the

:35:25.:35:28.

government in terms of public trust in our proceedings if we do not

:35:29.:35:33.

conduct these votes prior to such significant regulations coming in.

:35:34.:35:38.

We know that disabled people are at least twice as likely to live in

:35:39.:35:42.

poverty as non-disabled people. Pip helps to level the financial playing

:35:43.:35:47.

field between disabled and non-disabled people. I represent a

:35:48.:35:50.

constituency that has a significant level of poverty, and the numbers of

:35:51.:35:58.

receipt in Pip in my constituency are 3410. We have all received

:35:59.:36:02.

representations from a range of third sector organisations about

:36:03.:36:06.

this assessment process, and we have all seen the impact of how it works.

:36:07.:36:13.

I want to highlight two organisations I have worked with.

:36:14.:36:17.

One is the motor neurone disease Association. I am pleased to be

:36:18.:36:20.

patron of their Merseyside branch. Their analysis shows that between

:36:21.:36:27.

2013 and 2016, the proportion of people with MND who saw their award

:36:28.:36:31.

reduced as they moved from DLA to Pip was 13%. This is a condition

:36:32.:36:35.

which by its nature is both progressive and terminal. When I

:36:36.:36:42.

spoke to MND this morning, they said they want me to raise in this debate

:36:43.:36:47.

the quality of assessments. They believe the poor quality of

:36:48.:36:50.

assessments has contributed to the issues that have been raised by

:36:51.:36:58.

others. One thing that startled me when I have been through Pip

:36:59.:37:04.

assessments myself if the generalist nature of the assessors. They are

:37:05.:37:09.

expected to be experts on mental and physical health and mobility, and it

:37:10.:37:13.

is not possible in my opinion. There needs to be some kind of triaging. I

:37:14.:37:19.

bear that out from my experience in my local office. Research suggests

:37:20.:37:24.

that 71% of respondents said that assessors had not sought any

:37:25.:37:28.

evidence or information about the specific condition. That is part of

:37:29.:37:32.

the reason why 65% of those who challenge a decision then find that

:37:33.:37:39.

that challenge is successful. We have to be careful when the

:37:40.:37:42.

Government says it is targeting somebody or something, because you

:37:43.:37:46.

know that that is a code word for cuts in benefits. My constituents

:37:47.:37:56.

often find they are entering the unexpected. My honourable friend

:37:57.:38:05.

makes a powerful point. The other condition is epilepsy. I am a vice

:38:06.:38:10.

president of epilepsy action, and they have been in touch to say they

:38:11.:38:14.

fear that these proposals could penalise people with epilepsy, who

:38:15.:38:20.

rely on support to monitor their health condition. The DWP's

:38:21.:38:24.

understudy recognises that a person with epilepsy who has a seizure may

:38:25.:38:28.

need a carer to administer medicine without which they may go into

:38:29.:38:32.

status epilepticus, which can lead to brain damage or death. So I would

:38:33.:38:38.

like to reaffirm what my honourable friend from the front bench said

:38:39.:38:43.

today. We have an opportunity to air concerns on a cross-party basis, but

:38:44.:38:47.

I would urge the Government to listen to those concerns. As the

:38:48.:38:50.

honourable lady from South Cambridgeshire said earlier, we have

:38:51.:38:54.

been sent a message by the tribunal is about parity between mental and

:38:55.:38:58.

physical health. Let us say that we have listened to that message and we

:38:59.:39:02.

urge the Government to look again at these regulations. As someone who

:39:03.:39:09.

spends a great deal of time on work to improve the care and support for

:39:10.:39:12.

people with mental health conditions, I will begin with a

:39:13.:39:19.

couple of points of context before I moved to talking about the question

:39:20.:39:27.

of Pips which we are debating. I am thankful that mental health has

:39:28.:39:30.

never been a higher priority for any government. The Prime Minister has

:39:31.:39:35.

made it clear that it is a priority for her. We have the five-year

:39:36.:39:39.

forward view for mental health. We have extra funding for mental

:39:40.:39:44.

health, and people I work with in the mental health sector,

:39:45.:39:46.

campaigners, charities and professionals, have said to me that

:39:47.:39:52.

now is a golden moment to improve mental health care because of this

:39:53.:39:55.

unprecedented commitment by the Government to mental health. I know

:39:56.:40:07.

that my right honourable friend de Secretary of State forward and

:40:08.:40:11.

pensions and my 'em the minister for disabled people share this

:40:12.:40:15.

commitment. It is shown in the green paper recently published on work and

:40:16.:40:19.

disability and in the review of employment for people with mental

:40:20.:40:23.

health problems. There is also evidence that Pip is a better

:40:24.:40:27.

benefit for people with mental health conditions than its

:40:28.:40:31.

predecessor. Some of these statistics have already been given

:40:32.:40:34.

by my honourable friend the member for North Swindon, so I will not

:40:35.:40:37.

reiterate that beyond saying that it is important to note that on the

:40:38.:40:46.

mobility component of Pip, people with mental health conditions are

:40:47.:40:49.

far more likely to receive that an its equivalent under DLA, 28%

:40:50.:40:53.

getting the enhanced mobility component compared to 10% getting

:40:54.:40:58.

the equivalent under DLA. That is relevant to what we are debating

:40:59.:40:59.

today. They hope odds are PIP has the

:41:00.:41:08.

minister has said is that the award is based on the how the condition

:41:09.:41:13.

affects day-to-day life. It is based on that, not on their diagnosis. It

:41:14.:41:18.

is based on their needs and consequent costs. I am happy to give

:41:19.:41:25.

way. I thank the honourable lady. Does she agree with me that for the

:41:26.:41:30.

Government to suggest that mobility impairment caused by psychological

:41:31.:41:33.

issues are not relevant is an insult to anyone with a mental health

:41:34.:41:37.

condition, and that she also agreed that mental health conditions should

:41:38.:41:40.

be treated no differently to physical health conditions? I don't

:41:41.:41:47.

agree with the first point, I think he should continue to listen to what

:41:48.:41:51.

I have to say. The second point is one that I probably do agree with,

:41:52.:41:56.

but if he could listen, he may find that we are aligned on that. I would

:41:57.:42:01.

like to thank the minister, because she has been exceptionally assiduous

:42:02.:42:06.

in responding and discussing my concerns on the matter is that we

:42:07.:42:11.

are debating today. We have had several meetings. In those meetings,

:42:12.:42:16.

she has emphasised to me her commitment to achieving the original

:42:17.:42:21.

aim of PIP which is to support people to live full, independent

:42:22.:42:24.

lives. I have questioned her about these regulations, both in my role

:42:25.:42:31.

as chair of the APG from mental health, but also as a local member

:42:32.:42:35.

of Parliament. We have discussed the case of a lady I met in Maidstone

:42:36.:42:39.

recently, who had been set on fire on a bus. That lady told me that

:42:40.:42:44.

since then she has been unable to go out of the House without being

:42:45.:42:48.

accompanied by somebody that you trust. She has been very worried

:42:49.:42:55.

during this discussion about these regulations, she has been worried

:42:56.:42:58.

that the welfare system might not treat her the same as someone who

:42:59.:43:01.

has been unable to leave the House because of a physical disability.

:43:02.:43:05.

The minister has assured me that is not the case. And that people are

:43:06.:43:09.

and will continue to be given payment not based on their diagnosis

:43:10.:43:14.

but based on their needs. I would ask my honourable friend to clarify

:43:15.:43:22.

to all of us today that for examples somebody suffering from severe

:43:23.:43:27.

psychological distress, for instance post-traumatic stress disorder, who

:43:28.:43:30.

needs to get out and about, for instance to go to work or take

:43:31.:43:34.

children to school, but finds it impossible to go out and about

:43:35.:43:37.

without significant assistance, could and would receive the enhanced

:43:38.:43:43.

rate of mobility component of PIP, if the needs justified that. I would

:43:44.:43:52.

also ask my honourable friend that given the concern about these

:43:53.:43:57.

regulations, for her reassures on three counts to do with lamentation.

:43:58.:44:03.

One to make sure that the guidance for assessors is absolutely clear,

:44:04.:44:06.

that people with mental health conditions can and should receive

:44:07.:44:09.

PIP was based on their needs and costs, and that may well be the

:44:10.:44:13.

enhanced level. Secondly to make sure that the audit system, that she

:44:14.:44:19.

will make sure this is what happens in practice. And thirdly to draw on

:44:20.:44:24.

the evidence provided by recordings of PIP assessments, the trialling of

:44:25.:44:29.

which I welcome, having pressed her and her predecessor who is behind

:44:30.:44:35.

the on this point that I think PIP assessments should be recorded, and

:44:36.:44:38.

I welcome that this is going to be trialled. Finally, I'm just wrapping

:44:39.:44:45.

up. I look forward to hearing from my right honourable friend that she

:44:46.:44:49.

will assure as all that this Government's welfare system can and

:44:50.:44:53.

will continue to treat people the same, whether they needs are for

:44:54.:45:03.

mental or physical conditions. I to congratulate my honourable friend

:45:04.:45:05.

for bringing this matter before the House. I just want to concentrate on

:45:06.:45:12.

a couple of the misapprehensions in this afternoon's debate. First of

:45:13.:45:19.

all, in relation to the original policy intent, and we heard from my

:45:20.:45:24.

right honourable friend, that in 2011 and 2012 we were told by

:45:25.:45:28.

ministers during the passage of the welfare reform act, that not only

:45:29.:45:33.

would psychological stress and all conditions be eligible to be covered

:45:34.:45:39.

by PIP, but specifically the benefit would be judged not on the basis of

:45:40.:45:43.

their condition, but the overall impact on some apartment life. If

:45:44.:45:48.

that has significant impact on somebody's live, why will it be is

:45:49.:45:53.

good in assessing for the higher rate? It is contradictory to what we

:45:54.:45:58.

were told at the time of the passage of the Act. The Government

:45:59.:46:03.

acknowledged in 2015 that psychological strays was to be

:46:04.:46:07.

included, now they say that was a mistake. That is not good enough for

:46:08.:46:11.

a Government go around making these kind of mistakes. Secondly, the

:46:12.:46:17.

Government has said that nobody will suffer a cut to their benefit, it is

:46:18.:46:21.

not clear to me if they are still saying that not to be clear, to cut

:46:22.:46:26.

I'd like to point out. On the 15th of March, in the course of the

:46:27.:46:30.

urgent question heard in this House, the Secretary of State did

:46:31.:46:34.

acknowledge that some people who had had their award increased as a

:46:35.:46:38.

result of a decision in a first tribunal could see that reduced back

:46:39.:46:44.

to the level of the original DWP award. The Secretary of State was

:46:45.:46:47.

very careful with his words, he didn't say all awards would be

:46:48.:46:51.

protected, he said the original DWP award would be protected. Does that

:46:52.:46:55.

mean that it will be some people who will in practice see them was

:46:56.:47:01.

reduced? When will that happen? Because the other thing the

:47:02.:47:07.

Government is doing is appealing to the tribunal decisions. That is

:47:08.:47:11.

specifically to catch people who have seen their benefit on a higher

:47:12.:47:17.

level and who would of course enjoy that higher level, because the

:47:18.:47:20.

regulations would come in to relate for them to be impacted as the

:47:21.:47:25.

benefits reduced. Is the minister telling us that Government is

:47:26.:47:30.

successful, they would be reducing the benefit of those people who got

:47:31.:47:33.

rich awards prior to these regulations back to the level of the

:47:34.:47:38.

original DW be a white? The third thing I want to say is that asking

:47:39.:47:44.

the Government may reconcile cases decided on the upper tribunal, on a

:47:45.:47:51.

month of March with a decision to strip out the psychological and

:47:52.:47:55.

stress. In part because I understand it is a fluctuating condition, as we

:47:56.:47:58.

have heard in the decisions made on the 9th of March in the upper

:47:59.:48:01.

tribunal, it is not just whether something is occasional not that

:48:02.:48:03.

determines whether summit should be eligible. It is also about the total

:48:04.:48:13.

impact of that condition. The member for Liverpool, there's no better

:48:14.:48:19.

example than someone with epilepsy who may suffer occasional seizures,

:48:20.:48:22.

but many do suffer no seizures at the effect, the harm that they could

:48:23.:48:24.

be experienced to be very considerable and resulting brain

:48:25.:48:29.

damage or even death. May I ask the minister to explain how she

:48:30.:48:35.

reconciles those decisions with the assertion that because it is a

:48:36.:48:39.

fluctuating condition, psychological stress should not attract the

:48:40.:48:45.

highest rate of award? I would like the minister to have ten minutes in

:48:46.:48:49.

which the reply, so she needs to be on her feet. With regards to these

:48:50.:48:58.

PIP changes, the Government has done all it can to avoid parliamentary

:48:59.:49:03.

scrutiny. It has ignored the concerns repeatedly expressed by MPs

:49:04.:49:10.

and disability benefits Consortium and the concerns out there. They can

:49:11.:49:14.

be no doubt that the consequences of these changes are having a

:49:15.:49:17.

fundamental and life limiting effect on those affected by them. The point

:49:18.:49:24.

of PIP to help with the extra costs resulting from disability of

:49:25.:49:29.

long-term ill-health, replacing DLA. The effect, real axe or accidental,

:49:30.:49:33.

physically discrimination against those living with mental health

:49:34.:49:36.

challenges and could put vulnerable claimants at risk. That was the

:49:37.:49:42.

conclusion of the House of Lords. The disability rights Consortium is

:49:43.:49:47.

it concerned that these changes will restrict access for disabled people

:49:48.:49:51.

who needed in order to face additional costs. Clearly the

:49:52.:49:55.

criteria is now far too strict, which has resulted in almost 50% of

:49:56.:49:59.

disabled people and people with long-term health conditions losing

:50:00.:50:07.

access to some or all of the support when being assessed. In addition we

:50:08.:50:11.

know that over 60% of PIP appeals are successful. To those who have

:50:12.:50:16.

had their support withdrawn reduced, I would say this. Go to your MP for

:50:17.:50:24.

help. The process is distressing, upsetting, but please, appeal any

:50:25.:50:28.

decision which you think is unfair, because over 60% of appeals are

:50:29.:50:33.

successful. This shows, on its own, that the process is not working. And

:50:34.:50:39.

that the system causes unnecessary distress are far too many claimants.

:50:40.:50:44.

My constituency office in Ardrossan, north Ayrshire, has numerous

:50:45.:50:50.

examples of such cases. It leaves claimants confused, frightened,

:50:51.:50:55.

bewildered and in serious financial difficulty. There are also

:50:56.:50:58.

particular concerns around the mobility component, with over 750

:50:59.:51:02.

becoming them to ability Beatles every week due to withdrawal of

:51:03.:51:07.

essential support. We know from the DWP's own analysis that 146,000

:51:08.:51:13.

people, disabled people, could lose the natural support at the drop from

:51:14.:51:19.

the higher rate ability to no entitlement at all. It is also

:51:20.:51:23.

conceded by the DWP is that there is difficulty in predicting these

:51:24.:51:27.

numbers as the final numbers losing financial support could be in fact

:51:28.:51:33.

much higher. It is vital that the PIP assessment criteria is reviewed

:51:34.:51:36.

to ensure there are clear definitions in place before any

:51:37.:51:40.

changes. The criteria is far too narrow and far too restrictive, and

:51:41.:51:47.

simply does not recognise the impact that many long-term conditions and

:51:48.:51:50.

disabilities have on a person's ability to undertake daily living

:51:51.:51:54.

activities. I'd often feels to take account of Headon and fluctuating

:51:55.:51:58.

symptoms, including cognitive difficulties. What kind of people

:51:59.:52:03.

are suffering under this system? Those with MS, Parkinson is, serious

:52:04.:52:11.

chronic conditions. Often those that such conditions very often suffer

:52:12.:52:18.

from depression and anxiety. That is not specifically diagnosed, spice

:52:19.:52:23.

PIP is concerned, it doesn't exist. Those that long-term conditions and

:52:24.:52:25.

disabilities which include depression and anxiety are a common

:52:26.:52:30.

symptom which will not score under the original descriptor. These

:52:31.:52:37.

changes, on top of the arbitrary cut of ?30 a week to yesterday,

:52:38.:52:40.

work-related activity group, which is also due to be imposed show the

:52:41.:52:46.

complete disregard for the same people in the Government. How can

:52:47.:52:48.

putting disabled people integrate a hardship help to remove barriers or

:52:49.:52:54.

help them get back into work? Where are the disability employment

:52:55.:53:00.

support programmes? We need to treat disabled people with dignity and

:53:01.:53:04.

respect. This Government needs to listen and show some compassion and

:53:05.:53:09.

understanding, and stop trying to build an austerity programme on the

:53:10.:53:16.

backs of the poor and disabled. I want to start by thanking the

:53:17.:53:22.

minister, never for Portsmouth North, last Wednesday as a kid down

:53:23.:53:26.

the escalator she and a group of people were coming in the opposite

:53:27.:53:29.

direction and made it clear that we should leave the building. I thank

:53:30.:53:34.

her for that. Moving on to the debate. I'd like to thank my staff

:53:35.:53:39.

who, like others, having 100% success rate in the appeals that we

:53:40.:53:42.

have taken up in our office. And like to thank you Mr Speaker phone

:53:43.:53:47.

facilitating this debate. The Government should have done so in a

:53:48.:53:50.

timely manner, and they stand condemned for failing to do so in

:53:51.:53:58.

spite of a cross-party requests. And I am pleased that the original

:53:59.:54:02.

prayer which we tabled with his port of the opposition has led to the

:54:03.:54:11.

successful securing of the debate, fighting a member for old east and

:54:12.:54:15.

Saddleworth. As members and said, PIP helps disabled people to meet

:54:16.:54:20.

some of costs related to their impairment and condition. The

:54:21.:54:24.

Government have a stated intention of security -- how does this move to

:54:25.:54:30.

stop people with mental health problems securing extra support,

:54:31.:54:35.

activity 11 I believe to PIP, to help them with their journeys, help

:54:36.:54:40.

achieve parity of esteem? The Government will claim that they are

:54:41.:54:43.

simply affirming what the legislation originally intended. I

:54:44.:54:48.

dispute that. The evidence disputes that. Members have quoted the about

:54:49.:54:56.

audible member for Basingstoke. Particularly the phrase that PIP is

:54:57.:55:01.

designed to assess barriers individuals face, not make judgments

:55:02.:55:06.

based on their impairment type. I quote lord Freud who said, one of

:55:07.:55:10.

the big differences between PIP and DLA is that the personal

:55:11.:55:15.

independence claim it looks at the ability to plan a journey not just

:55:16.:55:20.

the physical capacity. I think these examples alone demonstrate that the

:55:21.:55:23.

Government's intention was to allow people with mental health problems

:55:24.:55:27.

to receive PIP, assist them in their mental health meant they could not

:55:28.:55:32.

travel without assistance. If the Government wants to change the law,

:55:33.:55:38.

because of the extra costs that they have identified associated with

:55:39.:55:45.

funding PIP, so be it. But let's have proper scrutiny, a proper

:55:46.:55:49.

debate and a proper vote, not this piece of Parliamentary

:55:50.:55:53.

jiggery-pokery. Can I advise the minister that she

:55:54.:56:06.

should sit down no later than 5.13. Can I start by thanking all

:56:07.:56:08.

honourable members who have contributed to this debate. There

:56:09.:56:14.

are many points I need to answer and I do not have much time, but I will

:56:15.:56:20.

do my best and any outstanding points, I will write to honourable

:56:21.:56:25.

members about. At the core of Pip's design is the principle that awards

:56:26.:56:28.

should be made according to a person's level of need, not whether

:56:29.:56:31.

their condition is one sort or another. Those with a higher need,

:56:32.:56:38.

great limitations on their ability to participate in society and higher

:56:39.:56:41.

costs associated with their condition will get more support. If

:56:42.:56:49.

I have time, I will pick interventions at the end. This

:56:50.:56:52.

approach, using the social definition of disability, is

:56:53.:56:56.

important. Assessments are complex. The assessor will be trying to

:56:57.:57:01.

understand the impact on that person's life and how their

:57:02.:57:04.

disability or health conditions will affect them in their caring duties,

:57:05.:57:10.

being a parent, in their social life and daily living. As this House has

:57:11.:57:15.

heard many times, recent legal judgments have interpreted the

:57:16.:57:17.

assessment criteria for Pip in ways that are different from what was

:57:18.:57:22.

originally intended under the coalition government. The other

:57:23.:57:26.

tribunal judgments were concerned solely with the interpretation of

:57:27.:57:32.

the wording and not, as the honourable member, my honourable

:57:33.:57:36.

friend from South Cambridgeshire has said, about policy. We have

:57:37.:57:40.

therefore made amendments to clarify the criteria used to decide how much

:57:41.:57:45.

benefits claimants receive. This amendment both restores the original

:57:46.:57:48.

aim of the policy previously agreed by Parliament, which followed

:57:49.:57:53.

extensive consultation and adds clarity for all. As my right

:57:54.:58:02.

honourable friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has said

:58:03.:58:05.

in this House and his letter last week to the honourable lady

:58:06.:58:12.

opposite, it is important to be clear what these regulations are

:58:13.:58:17.

not. They are not a policy change. They are not intended to make new

:58:18.:58:21.

savings and they will not result in any claimant seeing a reduction in

:58:22.:58:27.

the amount of Pip previously awarded by DWP. There is no change to the

:58:28.:58:32.

budget and no change to guidance that we give assessors. To answer

:58:33.:58:41.

the honourable lady's point, she is right that between the ruling is

:58:42.:58:45.

being made under regulations coming into force, there will be a handful

:58:46.:58:49.

of people, currently about eight people, that will have been awarded

:58:50.:58:55.

a higher amount in the tribunal rulings. We are not going to claw

:58:56.:58:58.

back money from those people, but we will look at those cases and it

:58:59.:59:03.

would be our intention to restore them to the original benefit level.

:59:04.:59:07.

That is one reason why we have acted quickly. But people who have

:59:08.:59:15.

previously awarded an amount by DWP and those in the future who will be

:59:16.:59:21.

assessed on the same principles and the same policy, there are amounts

:59:22.:59:26.

will not change. It is appropriate for the Government to act to restore

:59:27.:59:30.

the clarity of the law. As governments have done before and no

:59:31.:59:34.

doubt will continue to do in the future, indeed, the opposition, when

:59:35.:59:39.

in government in 2000, introduced a change to the rules of disability

:59:40.:59:43.

living allowance which overturned a commissioner's decision that held

:59:44.:59:47.

that telephone conversations to someone with severe depression and

:59:48.:59:51.

chronic anxiety should count as qualifying attention for the care

:59:52.:59:57.

component of DLA. That decision was seen to have significantly widened

:59:58.:00:01.

the gateway not only to DLA, but to attendance allowance too, and the

:00:02.:00:04.

Government therefore took a similar decision to the one we have taken to

:00:05.:00:10.

restore the original policy intent. Let me assure the House that we want

:00:11.:00:14.

to make sure that our policies are working and being delivered

:00:15.:00:17.

effectively, and we will continue to review our policies including Pip.

:00:18.:00:24.

This Government has already introduced two formal statutory

:00:25.:00:27.

reviews of the Pip assessment, and we remain committed to publishing

:00:28.:00:34.

Palgrave's independent review as set out in legislation. We will remain

:00:35.:00:39.

committed to continuous improvement and making those improvements to the

:00:40.:00:43.

Pip assessment and our decision-making and improving the

:00:44.:00:46.

advice that we provide people to guide them through the process. We

:00:47.:00:52.

know that feedback from claimant and stakeholders give us valuable

:00:53.:00:54.

insight into the services we deliver. That is why we are setting

:00:55.:01:00.

up the service user panels for Pip and ESA claimants, their carers,

:01:01.:01:06.

advocates and representative groups together evidence on Pip and ESA.

:01:07.:01:10.

These panels will start next month and will run for 12 months, asking

:01:11.:01:15.

for people's experiences of claiming, capturing new ideas for

:01:16.:01:19.

improvement and testing reactions to changes in the proposals. We wish to

:01:20.:01:23.

reach as many people as possible and we are working with charities and

:01:24.:01:32.

representatives to promote awareness and draw on their expertise.

:01:33.:01:36.

Following reference to those panels last month in the other place, we

:01:37.:01:39.

have started to see requests from claimant is keen to participate. We

:01:40.:01:44.

are also carrying out pilots to test whether there are any benefits to

:01:45.:01:47.

audio recording face-to-face assessments. Those pilots started on

:01:48.:01:53.

the 13th of March and will last for six weeks, involving 400 claimants.

:01:54.:01:58.

We are also trialling telephoning claimants to ensure all the evidence

:01:59.:02:01.

they wish to be considered has been submitted. This is important to

:02:02.:02:12.

reduce those going to appeal. And we are giving fuller reasons to people

:02:13.:02:16.

as to why they have not been successful to ensure that they

:02:17.:02:19.

understand exactly why. We have strengthened clinical support and

:02:20.:02:23.

mentoring for health care professionals that carry out

:02:24.:02:26.

assessments. Our assessors are discussing with that person the

:02:27.:02:31.

impacts on their life prior to taking a medical history. The right

:02:32.:02:35.

honourable gentleman from North Durham raised the issue of ensuring

:02:36.:02:39.

that there is support throughout the assessment process for people

:02:40.:02:42.

particularly with a mental health condition. He knows there are

:02:43.:02:53.

processes in place and markers for such individuals. We are always

:02:54.:02:56.

interested in what we can do to improve that. Please bear with me.

:02:57.:03:10.

The health and work green paper is looking at the issue of shared

:03:11.:03:15.

health records that honourable members have mentioned. And we have

:03:16.:03:21.

also been working with Motability to ensure that the issues around

:03:22.:03:26.

appeals and the counter-productive bureaucracy that honourable members

:03:27.:03:30.

have referred to are resolved and we will report to the House as soon as

:03:31.:03:34.

possible. I can assure my honourable friend the member for Kensington

:03:35.:03:40.

that a particular focus for that has been young people and students in

:03:41.:03:43.

particular. We are also looking at what further we can do, and I can

:03:44.:03:47.

give assurances to the honourable lady for Wealden that we are working

:03:48.:03:54.

with the RNIB. Let me turn to the specifics on mental health and the

:03:55.:03:59.

regulations. Supporting people with mental illness is a priority for

:04:00.:04:02.

this government. That is why we are spending more on mental health

:04:03.:04:06.

provision than ever before. 11.4 billion in this year alone. We have

:04:07.:04:12.

introduced the first-ever access and waiting standards for mental health

:04:13.:04:17.

services, and these changes and the investment are already making a

:04:18.:04:21.

difference. Since 2010, the number of people accessing mental health

:04:22.:04:28.

services has risen by 40%. And the number of consultant psychiatrists

:04:29.:04:32.

in this country has risen by 5%. We are working to join up the health

:04:33.:04:36.

care system, the welfare system and society more widely so that we focus

:04:37.:04:41.

on the strength of people with disabilities or health conditions

:04:42.:04:44.

and what they can do if properly supported. It is for that reason

:04:45.:04:49.

that in the summer of 2015, the health and work unit was created in

:04:50.:04:53.

the Department of Health and wire in October last year, we published

:04:54.:05:03.

improving lives... Mr Speaker, you rightly ensured that the minister

:05:04.:05:06.

had enough time to answer questions. None of that is about the key issue

:05:07.:05:10.

in the regulations. The right honourable gentleman must seek to

:05:11.:05:14.

intervene if he can and pursue other mechanisms if he can't. I am coming

:05:15.:05:18.

on to the revelations. The key issue of this debate is that people are

:05:19.:05:23.

questioning the parity of mental health with physical health, and I

:05:24.:05:28.

am wishing to point out to the House that mental health has never been

:05:29.:05:31.

more prominent on any Government's addenda before. If you allow me to

:05:32.:05:39.

turn to the issue of the regulations, I will not repeat the

:05:40.:05:43.

statistics about the number of people with a mental health

:05:44.:05:46.

condition receiving Pip more favourably than was on DLA. But let

:05:47.:05:51.

me tackle the issues around regulations. Several members have

:05:52.:06:00.

concluded that someone who is suffering from psychological

:06:01.:06:03.

distress, that would not count towards their scoring and that they

:06:04.:06:11.

would somehow be excluded from scoring the maximum amount on the

:06:12.:06:18.

descriptors. That is not the case. As time is tight, I could perhaps

:06:19.:06:22.

place some case studies in the library. But if you are suffering

:06:23.:06:30.

from autism, PTSD or depression, you can score 12 points on that

:06:31.:06:41.

descriptor. We have used the most appropriate Parliamentary procedure.

:06:42.:06:45.

It is set out in the welfare reform act of 2012. In light of the

:06:46.:06:52.

significant and urgent consequences of these judgments, these amendments

:06:53.:06:56.

were passed by the social security advisory committee on the 8th of

:06:57.:07:00.

March after the regulations were laid. We have welcomed the response

:07:01.:07:04.

we have received from the committee and the fact that they did not wish

:07:05.:07:10.

to have the regulations referred to them for public consultation. We

:07:11.:07:14.

have also responded to the recommendations made by the

:07:15.:07:18.

committee. We have made it clear that we are committed to continuous

:07:19.:07:24.

improvement as we recognise its importance both in terms of quality

:07:25.:07:28.

and consistency to ensure that Pip policy is clearly articulated. We

:07:29.:07:34.

will also ensure that health care professionals who carry out the

:07:35.:07:36.

assessment is fully understand what those amendments mean. The

:07:37.:07:40.

regulations were today passed by the joint committee on statutory

:07:41.:07:49.

instruments. In conclusion, I will reassure the House that these

:07:50.:07:52.

regulations simply restore the original aim of the policy as

:07:53.:07:57.

previously debated. We are delivering Pip in line with its

:07:58.:08:02.

original intent. These changes will not result in claimants seeing a

:08:03.:08:06.

reduction in the amount of Pip awarded by the department. Order.

:08:07.:08:13.

The question is that this House has considered changes to personal

:08:14.:08:16.

independence payment regulations. As many as are of the opinion, say

:08:17.:08:20.

"aye". To the contrary, "no". The ayes have it, the ayes have it.

:08:21.:08:31.

Point of order, Mr Carton. Thank you, Mr Speaker. On an intervention

:08:32.:08:38.

to my honourable friend the member for East Ham, I forgot to mention a

:08:39.:08:42.

direct interest. My wife sits as a judge. I apologise to you and the

:08:43.:08:53.

House. I appreciate that. Mr Speaker, can I apologise to you and

:08:54.:08:56.

the House for inadvertently misleading it during my German

:08:57.:09:02.

debate -- adjournment debate last Thursday on the incinerator? Said

:09:03.:09:11.

that in 2012, Hertfordshire County Council objected and that the

:09:12.:09:17.

company was now proposing 12 HGV movements a day. This figure was

:09:18.:09:22.

provided to me on the 4th of March 2000 16. I have since discovered

:09:23.:09:29.

that the actual number is 268 HGV movements a day. Nothing Veolia

:09:30.:09:38.

tells me turns out to be the reality of the situation, but I owe it to

:09:39.:09:42.

this House to do my homework more thoroughly. So I apologise to you

:09:43.:09:48.

again for misleading this House and my esteemed colleagues in this

:09:49.:09:53.

place, who indicated that they share my sense of outrage. I am grateful

:09:54.:09:57.

to the honourable gentleman for his point of order. He is certainly a

:09:58.:10:05.

witty wag. But I would add that as far as Veolia is concerned, the

:10:06.:10:09.

honourable gentleman is a formidable foe. I rather imagine the company is

:10:10.:10:13.

discovering that now, if it didn't know before. Point of order, Sir

:10:14.:10:16.

Simon Burns. TRANSLATION: As you will appreciate,

:10:17.:10:25.

my honourable friend was put in a most unfortunate situation because

:10:26.:10:34.

he was giving duff information which he used in good faith, and then

:10:35.:10:38.

turned out that the incorrect information that he gave was an

:10:39.:10:44.

under estimate of the severe impact those journeys were going to have on

:10:45.:10:50.

his constituency and local community. Could you advise us of

:10:51.:10:57.

any satisfactory way in which notwithstanding my honourable

:10:58.:11:02.

friend's generous apology to the House, that the people who where the

:11:03.:11:07.

perpetrators of this disinformation could be called to this place to

:11:08.:11:14.

explain why they embarrassed my honourable friend, and lead to

:11:15.:11:17.

misleading letters being giving in a debate which did have the effect on

:11:18.:11:22.

the views of other honourable members listening to the debate? I

:11:23.:11:29.

am grateful to him for that point of order. Summoning summer to the bar

:11:30.:11:37.

of the House is rarely used at a disciplinary device, and of course

:11:38.:11:41.

it is an extremely serious matter. I would have to reflect very carefully

:11:42.:11:44.

on whether it would be appropriate in that case. Even if it were not, I

:11:45.:11:47.

think they might honourable gentleman would agree with me that

:11:48.:11:53.

in the circumstances the least we might all expect is that an apology

:11:54.:12:00.

would be profit by the company, because there is no shame in making

:12:01.:12:06.

a mistake, but there certainly is in failing to recognise the fact that

:12:07.:12:10.

one's done so and failing to apologise for having done so. I will

:12:11.:12:15.

wait to see whether we received an apology, and if I receive any such

:12:16.:12:19.

apology, the Right Honourable gentleman will be the first hear of

:12:20.:12:25.

it. If there are no farther point of order. We come now to the rogue RAM

:12:26.:12:39.

motion, the ministers move. -- programme motion. I think the ayes

:12:40.:12:50.

have it. The clerk will now proceed to read the orders of the day.

:12:51.:13:04.

Pension scheme and mended to further consider. I must now put the

:13:05.:13:07.

question is necessary to bring to the conclusion proceedings of

:13:08.:13:10.

consideration. The members will be aware that when the House because

:13:11.:13:14.

they considered the Bill on Wednesday last, the setting was

:13:15.:13:17.

suspended and subsequently the House adjourned during the division on the

:13:18.:13:22.

question that new cars and property for the second time. I will begin

:13:23.:13:26.

proceedings in the Bill today by putting the question to the House.

:13:27.:13:31.

The question is that new clause would be read a second time. As many

:13:32.:13:37.

of that opinion, the iMac. To the contrary, no.

:13:38.:14:30.

The ayes to the right, 230. The noes, 279. -- 289. The noes have it.

:14:31.:26:26.

We continued clause two. -- new clause two. As many as are of the

:26:27.:26:31.

opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no".

:26:32.:27:45.

John. He requests that new clause to be added to the Bill. As many as are

:27:46.:27:58.

of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no".

:27:59.:34:49.

Order. The ayes to the right, 187. The noes to the left, 289.

:34:50.:38:25.

The noes have it. Unlock. We now come to amendment, the question is

:38:26.:38:40.

the member moment will be read. As many as are of the opinion, say

:38:41.:38:43.

"aye". To the contrary, "no". Division, clear the lobbies.

:38:44.:39:58.

Quick. Order. The question to the amendment. As many as are of the

:39:59.:40:13.

opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no".

:40:14.:46:50.

These lock the doors. -- locked the doors.

:46:51.:49:14.

order. The ayes to the right, 188. The noes to the left, 286. The ayes

:49:15.:49:40.

to the Rye, 188. The noes to the left, drugs and 86. The noes have

:49:41.:49:48.

it. Consideration completed, third reading. Minister to move. Deputy

:49:49.:49:59.

Speaker, we return to this Bill after last Wednesday's, to give

:50:00.:50:04.

vent. My thoughts and sympathies are to those affected but I would also

:50:05.:50:07.

like to take this opportunity to thank all my loyal members of both

:50:08.:50:11.

sides of the House for their support and professionalism on what was a

:50:12.:50:15.

very difficult time for us all. But it is now my pleasure to beg the

:50:16.:50:22.

Bill be now read for a third time. Mr Speaker, or Madam Deputy is

:50:23.:50:29.

bigger, now Madam Deputy Speaker, this Bill, I'm very pleased that she

:50:30.:50:33.

is here, because she hasn't heard this before. This Bill focuses on

:50:34.:50:39.

master trusts, including a new opposition regime for them and

:50:40.:50:44.

setting out how they must satisfy pensions regulators of certain

:50:45.:50:46.

criteria before they can begin continue to operate. The criteria

:50:47.:50:52.

were developed in discussion with the industry in response to specific

:50:53.:50:56.

key risks. While the Bill provides some detail, much more will be set

:50:57.:51:01.

out in regulations after further consultation with the industry and

:51:02.:51:06.

others. The Bill gives the regulator new powers to supervise master

:51:07.:51:10.

trusts and to step in when schemes fall below the required standards,

:51:11.:51:13.

and it gives the readily get additional powers when master trusts

:51:14.:51:18.

experience the risk events. His scheme that has experienced such an

:51:19.:51:22.

event will be required to resolve the issue or wind-up. Along with the

:51:23.:51:27.

regulator 's new powers, this supports continuity of saving for

:51:28.:51:31.

members, protect members where is the Mr wind-up, and supports

:51:32.:51:35.

employers with the automatic enrolment duties. To protect members

:51:36.:51:39.

of existing schemes, some aspects of the regime will have effect from the

:51:40.:51:45.

20th of October this year, 2016, last year, Madam Deputy Speaker.

:51:46.:51:51.

They will report triggering events to the regulator and restrictions on

:51:52.:51:54.

certain charges and the event is resolved. But the Bill also amends

:51:55.:51:59.

existing legislation so that regulations can override relevant

:52:00.:52:02.

contract terms that are inconsistent with those regulations. We intend to

:52:03.:52:07.

use this provision along with existing powers to make regulations

:52:08.:52:14.

capping early exit charges in some occupational pension schemes. Madam

:52:15.:52:18.

Deputy Speaker, when this Bill was introduced in the other place last

:52:19.:52:23.

October, it was welcomed across the pensions industry, and as an

:52:24.:52:26.

essential piece of legislation that will protect millions of people who

:52:27.:52:32.

now safely guard their time to retire -- pensions trust. It has

:52:33.:52:35.

been welcomed by all sides in both houses. We have listened to the

:52:36.:52:40.

points raised in both houses and continued to engage in is with

:52:41.:52:45.

stakeholders and I can confirm that we have brought forward a number of

:52:46.:52:48.

amendments to address their concerns. Any other place,

:52:49.:52:53.

amendments at committee stage mainly related to how the regulator would

:52:54.:53:00.

enforce the new enforcement regime. Amendments focused on registration

:53:01.:53:02.

making powers in the Bill, acknowledging the report any

:53:03.:53:08.

delegating powers in the reform committee. One amendment inserted

:53:09.:53:11.

that powers make limited consequential changes to legislation

:53:12.:53:15.

to ensure the law works as it's huge. We also make a change to allow

:53:16.:53:22.

that provisions of fraud compensation, pensions act 2004, to

:53:23.:53:25.

be modified for master trusts, and that the laws third reading would

:53:26.:53:29.

include a minor technical chase to clarify that regulations may require

:53:30.:53:35.

them to be audited. At committee stage in this House, we agreed on

:53:36.:53:41.

further changes. First it removed a cause that had been inserted after a

:53:42.:53:45.

narrow vote in the other place which provided for a scheme to meet costs

:53:46.:53:50.

by a masterclass is being wound up without the necessary funds to

:53:51.:53:54.

transfer accrued benefits. We discussed this once again at report

:53:55.:53:59.

stage earlier this afternoon, last week that was, when the House

:54:00.:54:03.

excepted the Government's argument that this was unnecessary. In

:54:04.:54:08.

response to a point raised by another place by unintended

:54:09.:54:13.

consequences of the deal, we made amendments in relation to any part

:54:14.:54:16.

of the scheme, not just the money purchase section. The original

:54:17.:54:23.

requirement in the Bill that the scheme is a separate legal entity

:54:24.:54:26.

must try at activity directly relating to the Master trust schemes

:54:27.:54:30.

in question was amended to address concerns about the impact of this

:54:31.:54:33.

requirement on business. The amendments enable scheme finders to

:54:34.:54:38.

operate more than one master trust and to give the estate the

:54:39.:54:49.

accessibility to make exceptions, and Deputy Speaker, I would like to

:54:50.:54:51.

thank honourable members from both sides of the House, the honourable

:54:52.:54:57.

gentleman from Stockton North, who is the shadow spokesman, and the

:54:58.:55:00.

honourable gentleman from Ross Skye and Lochaber particular. I can now

:55:01.:55:07.

pronounce the name of this constituency without reading it, I

:55:08.:55:11.

thank for his contribution. An electable tickly thank the build

:55:12.:55:15.

team from DWP and everyone who has contributed to make this Bill, and

:55:16.:55:19.

leave it is an excellent piece of legislation. I beg to move.

:55:20.:55:25.

The question is that the Bill be now read a third time. Thank you, Madam

:55:26.:55:34.

Deputy Speaker. As we know, the passage of this pensions Bill was

:55:35.:55:39.

interrupted this time last week as a result of a horrendous attack that

:55:40.:55:42.

took place just metres away from this place. I would like to echo

:55:43.:55:49.

remarks of the Minister and express my sincere condolences to everyone

:55:50.:55:53.

who is grieving for a loved one or who is recovering from their

:55:54.:55:58.

injuries. I also want to express my gratitude to the emergency services,

:55:59.:56:02.

especially to the incredible support team that we have working in and

:56:03.:56:07.

around this amazing place. So just to say that how treasured you all

:56:08.:56:13.

are. Onto the Bill. I'd like to put on record my thanks to my honourable

:56:14.:56:18.

friend, the Member for Stockton North, whose unstinting work on this

:56:19.:56:23.

Bill. Our coverage in the other place who's always been mentioned,

:56:24.:56:28.

and they kicked this process. And all our teams for putting this Bill

:56:29.:56:38.

in motion, and increasing protections for the savers being as

:56:39.:56:46.

good as possible. It will come as no surprise that I regret that he has

:56:47.:56:50.

been intransigent and frail to accept our amendments. He may have

:56:51.:56:54.

been constrained but I wish we could have done more on this. It really

:56:55.:56:59.

would have strengthened the Bill. And to have protected savers more

:57:00.:57:04.

than it currently does. However, as it does stand, the Bill goes some

:57:05.:57:10.

way to it increasing protection place for Master Trust savers the

:57:11.:57:15.

vast majority of whom will automatically involve through the

:57:16.:57:19.

sponsoring employee. Employer, sorry. This has not been the easiest

:57:20.:57:26.

Bill to scrutinise. The content is technical of course, but there is an

:57:27.:57:30.

unusual amount of legislation left to secretary regulation. I think

:57:31.:57:36.

this is a real concern, Madam Deputy Speaker. It's becoming a hallmark of

:57:37.:57:40.

this government, it is entirely regrettable. It is not only brought

:57:41.:57:44.

government, with criticisms of the government, who suggested government

:57:45.:57:49.

was writing legislation in lieu of policy, but it also made it

:57:50.:57:53.

difficult for this House to get a full picture of how this legislation

:57:54.:57:58.

will put rate, crew operate in practice. Nevertheless, we point to

:57:59.:58:03.

significant gaps in this government's approach to legislation

:58:04.:58:07.

as well as some parts we believe require the further thought. I'd

:58:08.:58:10.

like to briefly touched on some points here. As my honourable friend

:58:11.:58:16.

mentioned last week, we tried to table amendments to this Bill at

:58:17.:58:19.

committee stage, to enact our commitment to the women who we would

:58:20.:58:26.

extend pension credit to those worst affected. In showing hundreds of

:58:27.:58:29.

thousands of this woman became eligible for up to 156 pounds a

:58:30.:58:36.

week. Sadly these amendments were not selected. It is a disappointment

:58:37.:58:40.

the government did not use the Bill to address the plight of this woman.

:58:41.:58:44.

Labour has a clear costed plan targeted to the most vulnerable

:58:45.:58:46.

women and we are exploring further options to help as many as we can.

:58:47.:58:54.

And given we understand pensions Minister, can put me right, this is

:58:55.:58:58.

going to be the only pensions Bill in this Parliament, there are many

:58:59.:59:02.

other pensions issues that should have been included in a more pump

:59:03.:59:07.

comprehensive pensions Bill. It is a wasted opportunity. Onto the

:59:08.:59:14.

specifics of the Bill. On the funder of last resort, it is a shame that

:59:15.:59:19.

the government did not heed the advice of our noble Lords in the

:59:20.:59:23.

other place. And provide provision to guarantee fund of last resort.

:59:24.:59:28.

Our amendment would ensure the scheme members are protected in the

:59:29.:59:31.

event of a Master Trust being insolvent. It would have offered

:59:32.:59:35.

them a clear route for the drawdown of the saving. The Minister believes

:59:36.:59:41.

that the new regulation regulatory framework. Provides the material to

:59:42.:59:47.

make this cause unnecessary. He seemed unwilling to give a guarantee

:59:48.:59:52.

that no future Master Trust will go bust. I'm glad the Minister has

:59:53.:59:57.

faith in them regulatory regime and I hope his faith is justified for

:59:58.:00:02.

the sake of scheme members. Madam Deputy Speaker, we hope to include,

:00:03.:00:09.

improve the clause of the Bill. Under this, the regulator can step

:00:10.:00:15.

in for a team elation and each unit were failing Master Trust. The

:00:16.:00:19.

government has made an exception of people getting divorced to allow

:00:20.:00:24.

them at to access, access funds. It but did not see fit to offer the

:00:25.:00:28.

same opportunity to, for example, disabled people or those in ill

:00:29.:00:32.

health. This is likely to cause distress to those in desperate need

:00:33.:00:35.

of drawing down the saving. The government also did little to

:00:36.:00:39.

consider what would happen to the savers affected by eight clause

:00:40.:00:44.

order who want to continue putting contribution from the salary and the

:00:45.:00:47.

sponsoring employer aside for retirement. Our amendment had

:00:48.:00:53.

suggested that the employer take responsibility for holding onto the

:00:54.:00:56.

savings until the clause order had ended or a new Master Trust found.

:00:57.:01:00.

Again, the government unfortunately rejected this practical suggestion.

:01:01.:01:07.

With regard to the issue of transparency regarding costs and

:01:08.:01:10.

charges this is one of the scandals of the pension industry. In spite of

:01:11.:01:14.

government promises to tackle it for years, I can remember being a member

:01:15.:01:18.

of the work and pensions Select Committee, going back several years

:01:19.:01:24.

and one of the Treasury ministers promising in the last Parliament

:01:25.:01:29.

that this would be done. We are still waiting. It is one of those

:01:30.:01:33.

issues that unfortunately, we were taking far too long to tackle. I

:01:34.:01:39.

appreciate we got a review that will be published at the end of the year,

:01:40.:01:42.

but that would be too late the legislation. It will be up to the

:01:43.:01:45.

industry to determine what and how and when they will publish around

:01:46.:01:52.

the costs. With charges, this is the real scandal, I wonder if anyone can

:01:53.:01:58.

say how much they know the pension scheme is being charged. It has been

:01:59.:02:03.

estimated that is up to ?120 billion a year, and that affects all savers.

:02:04.:02:11.

We need to decide, really, whose side we are on. Were we look after

:02:12.:02:15.

savers or I began to prop up the pensions industry? We tried to raise

:02:16.:02:20.

the issue of a page costs and charges being applied to members by

:02:21.:02:25.

investment managers and brokers but the government failed to respond

:02:26.:02:28.

again. For too long, people have been encouraged but the faith and

:02:29.:02:32.

the money in a distance savings pot. With very little information about

:02:33.:02:37.

where that was invested, the performance of the savings and

:02:38.:02:40.

importantly, how much the investment was costly in terms of costs and

:02:41.:02:45.

charges they incurred. In short, neither the scheme trustees nor the

:02:46.:02:49.

scheme members have been able to adequately ascertain whether there

:02:50.:02:53.

were getting value for money to the investment. Enormous every market,

:02:54.:02:59.

people looking to purchase a or service provider with basic

:03:00.:03:01.

information about performance and cost of what they are looking to buy

:03:02.:03:05.

in advance of the purchase. This is a necessary requirement to ensure

:03:06.:03:09.

they are getting finally the money but there's basic principle is not

:03:10.:03:13.

operating in our pension system. Part two of the Bill makes a small

:03:14.:03:18.

step towards greater transparency and charges applied to those hoping

:03:19.:03:24.

to make the most of pension freedoms and remove the savings from the

:03:25.:03:27.

Master Trust. But we maintain that is is not enough. Much more could

:03:28.:03:31.

have been done to shine a light in transactions cost being applied to

:03:32.:03:35.

investment returns. The Minister committed the government to

:03:36.:03:37.

implement the recommendations of the SCA but what and the affluent

:03:38.:03:41.

merchant and marking off or surely this could've been a great

:03:42.:03:43.

opportunity for the government to make a start. There is work to be

:03:44.:03:50.

done to tackle the problem of opaque and of, or as excessive charges from

:03:51.:03:55.

workers savings and investment managers. Currently the Bill merely

:03:56.:04:03.

scratches the surface. There remains unanswered questions on the

:04:04.:04:07.

government despite our attempts to clarify. We believe this Bill should

:04:08.:04:10.

increase member representation on trustee board. It is the money being

:04:11.:04:14.

invested and they should be involved. There are pensions act of

:04:15.:04:18.

1995 introduced the requirement for company pension schemes do have

:04:19.:04:22.

member nominated trustees. If the scheme 's sole trustee is a company

:04:23.:04:27.

including the employer rather the then the individual, scheme members

:04:28.:04:31.

will have a right to nominate directors to the company, member

:04:32.:04:35.

nominated get directors. The 2004 act, pensions act, in the enshrined

:04:36.:04:41.

the right have at least a third of trustees and trust -based scheme.

:04:42.:04:45.

This comes from basic democratic principles that those for whom the

:04:46.:04:48.

decisions have been taken should have a say in those decisions. The

:04:49.:04:54.

pension regulator agrees. That Master Trust are covered by this

:04:55.:04:58.

legislation which is why some already have member nominated

:04:59.:05:02.

trustees. They have however turned a blind eye to this matter on the

:05:03.:05:05.

basis of having multiple sponsoring employees presented. We do not

:05:06.:05:11.

believe this is acceptable and have urged the government to try and

:05:12.:05:15.

apply the law in this regard. Scheme members should be represented to

:05:16.:05:18.

trustees of Master Trust funds, it is, as I've said, they have a direct

:05:19.:05:24.

interest in ensuring a sound and a sustainable investment strategy

:05:25.:05:28.

delivered at good value. It is disappointing that the government

:05:29.:05:32.

did not take up this matter which requires urgent action. Nor was a

:05:33.:05:36.

convincing argument given as to why Master Trust should not have to meet

:05:37.:05:40.

the statutory requirement especially in light of the increased risk being

:05:41.:05:45.

bought by scheme members. Finally, it is disappointing that the Bill

:05:46.:05:49.

also does nothing to build upon the success of Labour's policy to

:05:50.:05:55.

involve automatically, by ensuring the master that is accessible, and

:05:56.:06:00.

encourage groups that work excluded by automatic enrolment by the

:06:01.:06:05.

government's changes to eligibility criteria. Throughout these debates,

:06:06.:06:09.

we have recognised the government has announced review of automatic

:06:10.:06:13.

enrolment, but we have not heard the explanation of why the review comes

:06:14.:06:18.

after the spill. The self-employed, women, those working multiple jobs,

:06:19.:06:22.

carers and people on low incomes can all benefit hugely from enhanced

:06:23.:06:28.

opportunities to say -- save towards the inner retirement. The government

:06:29.:06:35.

will not commit to a review, we will hold them to account to review

:06:36.:06:39.

itself, took to ensure that these excluded groups are dated. To

:06:40.:06:46.

conclude, we welcome legislation to strengthen the regulation of Master

:06:47.:06:51.

Trust. We have tried to address serious issues in these debates

:06:52.:06:55.

through pragmatic engagement with the Bill and highlighting its many

:06:56.:06:59.

gaps. One would have thought that the government will have time to

:07:00.:07:02.

include much more detail in this piece of Barbara legislation, to

:07:03.:07:05.

allow a proper scrutiny of both places. It seems however, that they

:07:06.:07:11.

are and are unable to get their act together as part of pensions. I can

:07:12.:07:21.

hear the noise from the other benches, I think there is dissent

:07:22.:07:26.

there. We hope that through the debates, we have drawn attention to

:07:27.:07:31.

these important issues and the need to create further security and

:07:32.:07:34.

dignity in retirement for working families across the UK. Thank you.

:07:35.:07:46.

Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I also say myself with the remarks

:07:47.:07:53.

that were made by the Minister, the about the events of last Wednesday,

:07:54.:07:56.

we should also reflect the debate outside the chamber that

:07:57.:08:05.

our thoughts are very much with those in the line of duty. The

:08:06.:08:18.

police officer that lost his life, and the public who lost their lives.

:08:19.:08:22.

Our thoughts are with them. When having this debate, we should

:08:23.:08:26.

reflect on our responsibility in this House. That is to make sure we

:08:27.:08:31.

are creating an architecture that creates a climate that consumers

:08:32.:08:36.

around the UK can safely invest in pension schemes and savings, there

:08:37.:08:40.

was a level of trust. On that basis, I welcome broadly, this Bill in

:08:41.:08:45.

improving that landscape. It's an important step forward. Insofar as

:08:46.:08:51.

that it brings a level of protection which is necessary for those who are

:08:52.:08:55.

investing through automatic enrolment. It is an crucial that --

:08:56.:09:01.

is it is crucial that it has come forward. I like that the

:09:02.:09:06.

spokespersons from the Labour front bench would see the amendments by

:09:07.:09:09.

the government. Having said that, I was encouraged by the response of

:09:10.:09:14.

the Minister who responded last week, in particular to the amendment

:09:15.:09:19.

that had been moved in relation to section 70 five. And that there is a

:09:20.:09:23.

commitment that can come back out on leaders of this issue. I think the

:09:24.:09:28.

Bill has got to be seen within the wider context of what we are seeking

:09:29.:09:34.

to achieve in pension. The work two clauses that are worth taking for

:09:35.:09:38.

debate, one was on the establishment of a pensions and savings

:09:39.:09:41.

commission, and I still believe that this is something that the

:09:42.:09:44.

government should consider. There is an awful lot going on on the

:09:45.:09:49.

landscape. Some of that has been described by the Labour in the

:09:50.:09:56.

speech have heard. The fact that we've had the review, we got the

:09:57.:10:00.

green paper on benefit pension schemes, and we've got the paper.

:10:01.:10:06.

There is a willingness to work Collegiate league in order to

:10:07.:10:11.

improve the landscape of all of these factors. I forward to the

:10:12.:10:15.

debates we will be having on taking this forward. It all comes back to

:10:16.:10:20.

the point that I made about how we create confidence that

:10:21.:10:26.

If I put this in the context of the defining benefit in the paper that

:10:27.:10:32.

came out, one of the most striking things is the figure which is

:10:33.:10:36.

contained in the front of that for the court, which indicates that the

:10:37.:10:41.

average is ?70,000, and I think we all have to accept that pension

:10:42.:10:45.

saving is not done at appropriate level in this country, and we all

:10:46.:10:49.

want to see people saving to the extent that they can have dignity in

:10:50.:10:54.

their retirement, also in the workplace pension and in the state

:10:55.:10:57.

pension as well. I look forward to working with the Government to have

:10:58.:11:03.

that review. We know that whilst they are improving that landscape

:11:04.:11:08.

for protection for consumers today, we know there is more we need to do

:11:09.:11:13.

in terms of protecting in particular are a lot of women who are excluded

:11:14.:11:17.

from this, those who are in part-time jobs, below the threshold,

:11:18.:11:23.

and those who are self-employed and are often exploited. I applaud the

:11:24.:11:25.

Government for what they are doing here, I see it as a very necessary

:11:26.:11:29.

step forward, but there's much more that can do in working together for

:11:30.:11:34.

mutual benefit for those who invest in pension schemes. The question is

:11:35.:11:45.

that the Bill should be ready third time. Those in favour say aye,

:11:46.:11:54.

though to the contrary, no. The ayes have it. The clerk will now proceed

:11:55.:11:58.

to read the title of the Private Bill set down for consideration

:11:59.:12:09.

today. - level Bill, second reading. -- the question is that the Bill be

:12:10.:12:14.

now read i.e. Second time, Mr Kevin Foster. Thank you Madam Deputy is

:12:15.:12:21.

bigger and it is a joy to hear your colleagues so loudly in moving this

:12:22.:12:27.

Bill. We move for this Bill to be read a second time. It might be

:12:28.:12:30.

helpful for the House of I give some background and reasons for this Bill

:12:31.:12:34.

being here. The first point for those... Are happily give way once I

:12:35.:12:42.

make a bit progress. They will be opportunity for debate. It might be

:12:43.:12:45.

helpful for the House to get some background and the reasons for this

:12:46.:12:48.

Bill being here. The first point for those not familiar with it, what is

:12:49.:12:54.

the middle level? It is the central and larger section, the great level

:12:55.:12:59.

that was reclaimed by drainage in the mid-17th century. There is a

:13:00.:13:06.

north-west and east, to the north by the previously trained Martin

:13:07.:13:12.

stilts, and the Dom and amid lovely river system consisted of 120 miles

:13:13.:13:17.

of water courses, approximately 100 miles of which are statutory

:13:18.:13:20.

navigations, a catchment of just 170,000 acres. Vitriol of the

:13:21.:13:27.

fenland it lies below means sea-level. The middle level

:13:28.:13:29.

Commissioners, together with the local internal drainage board,

:13:30.:13:35.

operate a highly complex water level management system. This now see the

:13:36.:13:40.

various water uses and requirements and alleviated the flooding of land

:13:41.:13:44.

and property. The efficient operation of it this system is vital

:13:45.:13:47.

to the safety and prosperity of over 100,000 people who live and work in

:13:48.:13:52.

area and the 26,000 properties that depend on that system. In a moment,

:13:53.:13:58.

I will just it make a little bit more progress. The operators of the

:13:59.:14:02.

commissioners and the local board, much of the fenland would be under

:14:03.:14:06.

water for much of the year, and many of the present land uses would be

:14:07.:14:12.

impossible. I will now give way. I thank him for giving way. The levels

:14:13.:14:18.

are very important because they often have a quite sensitive

:14:19.:14:20.

archaeology. I wonder whether what he is proposing will effect that in

:14:21.:14:26.

the slightest. I thank the honourable member for his

:14:27.:14:30.

intervention. By understanding from these response of the Bill is that

:14:31.:14:32.

this is about framework for management of the levels, it is not

:14:33.:14:38.

about specific developments are any projects. Visit the commissioners

:14:39.:14:41.

went to decide this or that, they would have to go through the usual

:14:42.:14:45.

processes to get permissions, and given some historical nature of this

:14:46.:14:51.

site we are talking about, that would be taken into consideration. I

:14:52.:14:59.

thank him for that intervention. Can I ask him, but his status as? He's

:15:00.:15:05.

telling us about this Bill and the location of it, but he doesn't

:15:06.:15:10.

represent an area anywhere near the affected area, and I wondered why it

:15:11.:15:14.

has not been possible for the promoters of this Bill to find a

:15:15.:15:20.

local MP who is sympathetic to the points that are being put forward. I

:15:21.:15:24.

thank him for his intervention. I know he is a scrutinise bills, even

:15:25.:15:31.

if they are not those that directly relate to Christchurch. Like me, he

:15:32.:15:35.

takes his duties as a member of the overall very seriously in terms of

:15:36.:15:45.

promoting legislation and debating. I know he champions in this chamber

:15:46.:15:52.

and rightly so. Where this Bill has been discussed some of the MPs are

:15:53.:15:56.

directly affected and Government ministers, Inc and so this is a

:15:57.:15:59.

Private Bill and they are unable to move it as he will be aware, at

:16:00.:16:04.

least BA backbench member for obvious reasons. Given the address I

:16:05.:16:08.

have expressed in waterways before and also in seeing consistent

:16:09.:16:11.

management in terms of this area, that it was appropriate that this

:16:12.:16:16.

legislation fell attached to be presented to the House and all

:16:17.:16:20.

members have the opportunity to dissipate in the debate. And sure we

:16:21.:16:23.

will hear from me is one of the local members affected and from the

:16:24.:16:28.

local honourable gentlemen cell who will share his own insights. I am

:16:29.:16:39.

not directly affected, but the trade and waterways in question are

:16:40.:16:42.

adjacent to my own constituency and I support their 100% and would like

:16:43.:16:46.

the way he's moving. I figured as appropriate, that having a local MP

:16:47.:16:50.

moving in, maybe there could be conflict of some kind, so having an

:16:51.:16:54.

MP from another part of the country to give the commissioners more power

:16:55.:16:57.

and is a great deal of sense, and we're grateful him. At like my

:16:58.:17:01.

honourable friend for that intervention. I couldn't have put it

:17:02.:17:07.

better myself. Moving on to buy a Bill. As many will know, I made a

:17:08.:17:11.

point on Friday that legislating is not a thing to do for the fun of it

:17:12.:17:15.

or a unique form of parliamentary sport. For a Bill to be worthy of

:17:16.:17:19.

Parliamentary time, there must be a clear need for it. This Private Bill

:17:20.:17:26.

is being promoted by the commissioners that our concert you

:17:27.:17:29.

did on the middle level act 1862. The commissioners provide flood

:17:30.:17:33.

defence and water level management in the area, and the navigational

:17:34.:17:36.

authority from the middle level river system. The legal framework

:17:37.:17:40.

that covers the commissioners navigation function is made of a

:17:41.:17:46.

number of 18th and 19th century Acts, they dilated waterways that

:17:47.:17:49.

may themselves be laid out in the 17th century. May act of you, Madam

:17:50.:17:59.

Deputy is Speaker, my apologies for my lateness. I was detained. With my

:18:00.:18:07.

honourable friend agree that the area covered only middle level

:18:08.:18:12.

commission is not strictly analogous to other authorities in that the

:18:13.:18:20.

middle level area is essentially a connected to basins rather than

:18:21.:18:25.

bespoke revellers. I thank him for his intervention. Again showing his

:18:26.:18:30.

exceptional knowledge of his constituency and the assets that the

:18:31.:18:34.

board. He is right, a fundamental beaver commando when told about

:18:35.:18:38.

framework regulation. This is about the drainage system, but of course

:18:39.:18:42.

they have developed a pleasure boat usage and other uses as time has

:18:43.:18:47.

progressed. One of the reasons for this Bill is the fact that some of

:18:48.:18:50.

the uses would not have been envisaged at the time in the 18th

:18:51.:18:56.

century -- 19th-century, motor boats did not exist at that time and the

:18:57.:19:01.

concept of denials was very different during that period. I want

:19:02.:19:06.

to make some progress just what a moment and then I will be happy to

:19:07.:19:12.

give way. As I was touching on, the regulation for these waterways is

:19:13.:19:15.

mainly laid out in the 17th century, these acts are now considerably out

:19:16.:19:19.

of date and do not align with our requirements by the statutory

:19:20.:19:25.

framework of the navigation authorities, in particularly current

:19:26.:19:27.

legal framework which governs the commissioners do not include

:19:28.:19:30.

adequate provision for the registration of vessels used in the

:19:31.:19:33.

waterways or the leading of charges for the use of the waterways and

:19:34.:19:36.

associated facilities. It may be thing with the promoters of this

:19:37.:19:41.

Bill, it was remarked how this might mean is exempted from pleasure craft

:19:42.:19:45.

and those transporting manure. As a result, the commission is currently

:19:46.:19:49.

do not receive any income from navigation of the waterways. This

:19:50.:19:53.

has meant that money made to drainage rate and levies have had to

:19:54.:19:56.

be used to find navigation rather than flood defences. In the

:19:57.:20:01.

financial year ending the 31st of March 2016, this amounted to

:20:02.:20:11.

?108,000. This was unfunded expenditure. The question is seeking

:20:12.:20:14.

to update and clarify their powers to enable them to properly regulate

:20:15.:20:19.

and find waterways. The powers are similar to those already used by

:20:20.:20:22.

other large inland navigation authorities, for example the canal

:20:23.:20:25.

and river trust, the Environment Agency and the boards authority.

:20:26.:20:31.

Future maintenance and management of the waterway will be funded in a

:20:32.:20:35.

similar way. Not based on one set of users, and those who benefit can be

:20:36.:20:40.

asked to contribute to it. In terms of why a Private Bill, the

:20:41.:20:45.

Commissioner originally proposed to update their legislation in 2000,

:20:46.:20:49.

using a transport and Works order, and approach the death rather do

:20:50.:20:55.

this. But they considered the charging schemes which would be

:20:56.:21:00.

outside the powers and the commission proposals did not proceed

:21:01.:21:05.

any further. Having consulted on updated proposals, the commissioners

:21:06.:21:08.

approach them again in 2016. Manitoba 2016I understand that

:21:09.:21:12.

apparat confronted position had not changed and that the WHO can not be

:21:13.:21:17.

used in this instance. Their reasoning was that it could not be

:21:18.:21:21.

used to impose charges on a navigation when the primary

:21:22.:21:26.

legislation governing it does not itself contain charging provisions,

:21:27.:21:28.

as is the case with the middle level navigation. It was therefore the

:21:29.:21:34.

commissioners pursued a Private Bill to update the powers. I'm sure

:21:35.:21:38.

members will agree to the right approach, and given that we can have

:21:39.:21:43.

this debate this evening on these important subjects. Whilst it is the

:21:44.:21:48.

first opportunity for a wider debate in the House on this matter, the

:21:49.:21:52.

proposals will not come as a surprise to those might be affected,

:21:53.:21:55.

as there has been a wider consultation already. He is making a

:21:56.:22:09.

very good speech. Can I just put it to him that at first sight this is

:22:10.:22:15.

an attempt to regularise vis-a-vis other navigation authorities

:22:16.:22:18.

legislation to the middle level, but what is missing on the face of the

:22:19.:22:23.

Bill, and it might be different from secondary legislation, is any

:22:24.:22:28.

commensurate commitment to update facility which is as similar to

:22:29.:22:31.

other navigational authorities, and that is the Achilles heel of this

:22:32.:22:35.

Bill, where it may need to be looked at again by this House or in the

:22:36.:22:40.

other place. I thank him for his intervention. I agree with him that

:22:41.:22:50.

there is clearly, nobly was be paying extra charges for the same

:22:51.:22:53.

facilities, but if we don't change the legal framework, then it is

:22:54.:22:57.

asking those using this for drainage to pay for facilities for those

:22:58.:23:02.

wishing use it for navigation. That means it is very unlikely those will

:23:03.:23:06.

ever be developed. It would need to go hand-in-hand. Our command to his

:23:07.:23:12.

response about the petitioners, of the viewers I've had come back for

:23:13.:23:23.

from them about this point. This will very briefly. And grateful to

:23:24.:23:28.

him. If you rightly say that this consultation to place at same time

:23:29.:23:34.

as the EU referendum, which we celebrate the outcome of today, and

:23:35.:23:40.

is it also right to say that the march cruising club, for example,

:23:41.:23:44.

which has headquarters almost opposite the offices for the

:23:45.:23:48.

commissioners, that that club was not consulted, and other petitioners

:23:49.:23:54.

were not consulted other? I thank him. I know she, like myself, would

:23:55.:23:58.

agree that most people are more than able to have two issues going at the

:23:59.:24:03.

same time. While the EU referendum was a very important referendum that

:24:04.:24:06.

many people in this House engaged in, I know he engaged passionately

:24:07.:24:10.

putting his side down, but whether other things other members have had

:24:11.:24:17.

different items on the agenda. Nobody would take part in this

:24:18.:24:22.

consultation... There have been petitioners deposited in relation to

:24:23.:24:28.

the Dell, and one thing if this gets to second reading is the petitioners

:24:29.:24:32.

would then be heard at a Private Bill committee, where we could

:24:33.:24:36.

scrutinise in more depth, so I would hope he receive this to give this

:24:37.:24:40.

Bill its second reading so those points can be made and we can look

:24:41.:24:44.

at how we can work constructively and appropriately to reframe this as

:24:45.:24:48.

a modern framework for regulation, rather than continuing with one that

:24:49.:24:52.

is mostly based on the needs of the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries, very

:24:53.:24:55.

briefly... She maybe keep... and bringing into life in ways, such

:24:56.:25:18.

as the canal and river trust. It is a question long overdue for an

:25:19.:25:24.

update. Thank you to the honourable member for his intervention. Rosie

:25:25.:25:28.

Zwingli, the exact point is made is that if the current system of

:25:29.:25:32.

regulation that, grow dates from another era, the health isn't the

:25:33.:25:39.

petition to refer other areas to the system. It is noticeable there is a

:25:40.:25:44.

demand for change. It might be helpful or members if I go through

:25:45.:25:48.

the consultation that took place between February and June 20 16. He

:25:49.:25:54.

has notified parties, land range interest, and local authorities,

:25:55.:25:58.

publishing news two newspaper notices on the website. We received

:25:59.:26:07.

18 responses, three neutral, and to oppose. The supporters included the

:26:08.:26:13.

Inland waterways Association, the East Anglian waterways Association,

:26:14.:26:17.

the National Association of boat owners, the middle level Watermans

:26:18.:26:21.

club, the residential boat owners Association, the Association of

:26:22.:26:23.

waterway cruising club and five local council. The honourable member

:26:24.:26:28.

who represents the nearby constituency, indicated this as

:26:29.:26:34.

well. I would say, mentioning the support, it is right to mention the

:26:35.:26:37.

concerns as well. Six petitions have been deposited against the Bill from

:26:38.:26:43.

individuals with varying degrees of interest in the waterways. The

:26:44.:26:46.

cruising club mentioned by the honourable mention,

:26:47.:26:53.

this has been raised in petitions and in response for the honourable

:26:54.:27:00.

member for question. If the Bill is given second reading, we will

:27:01.:27:04.

respond to them prior to the Bill committee stage. And both the

:27:05.:27:07.

commissioners and the petition will have the opportunity to give

:27:08.:27:10.

evidence directly supporting the case. This will determined the line

:27:11.:27:16.

by line detail of the Bill and also that the Bill has been proved. The

:27:17.:27:20.

Bill is a long, complex one, and I do not intend for the benefit of the

:27:21.:27:23.

members to go through every aspect of this Bill and every aspect of the

:27:24.:27:28.

petition race. There are two issues I should cover at the stage which

:27:29.:27:33.

may assist the House. The first is the issue in relation to houseboat

:27:34.:27:37.

owners. For some, the middle level is the home, not just a pleasure of

:27:38.:27:41.

watercourse. I recognise that one of the petitions is the national bard

:27:42.:27:45.

is travelling Association, I have raised this issue particular in

:27:46.:27:48.

relation to the Bill's power. I have been advised to say that the

:27:49.:27:52.

commissioners are a public authority bound by the Human Rights Act, to

:27:53.:27:55.

complying with the Convention rights. If removing a vessel, would

:27:56.:28:00.

challenge the article eight rights, for a wide, grow private family

:28:01.:28:06.

life, this would only be done if it is proportionate. It is more likely

:28:07.:28:11.

to be proportionate if a person fails to meet safety standards or

:28:12.:28:15.

its owner consistently refuses to get insurance. But not if there is a

:28:16.:28:24.

genuine breach of licence. The commission can throw this out in

:28:25.:28:28.

more detail, in registration bylaws, if this Bill was passed. And those

:28:29.:28:37.

bylaws would be subject to a ministerial investigation. We can

:28:38.:28:41.

discuss this more at committee stage. Those that make this place

:28:42.:28:46.

the home could also benefit from more securities and a more

:28:47.:28:50.

modernised system of regulation and legal framework around the middle

:28:51.:28:54.

level. The second point is the one the honourable member for

:28:55.:28:57.

Peterborough has mentioned, which is the idea of paying more but no

:28:58.:29:02.

facilities. An income tax on using this stretch of water. I accept, and

:29:03.:29:07.

I think the Bill's promoters do as well. This has to be a two-way

:29:08.:29:12.

street. The cannabis be more charges for those who navigate and a similar

:29:13.:29:16.

service at the end. There has to be a clear benefit. Having raised this

:29:17.:29:20.

with the Bill's promoters, they advised me that the commissioners

:29:21.:29:22.

recognise that navigator is being asked to pay charges will have to

:29:23.:29:25.

get something in return for their money. No two ways about that. They

:29:26.:29:29.

have agreed with the Inland waterways Association, East Anglia

:29:30.:29:34.

and waterways Association, and the National Association of boat owners

:29:35.:29:39.

to set up a if passed. This will discuss maintenance and improvements

:29:40.:29:45.

before charges are set. The precise arrangements have been agreed but

:29:46.:29:50.

the commission has certainly set up detail if that was helpful, and I

:29:51.:29:54.

hope that gives them reassurance to the House that again this is a

:29:55.:29:58.

matter we can explore in some depth at community stage. Although I would

:29:59.:30:02.

make a point that we are talking about the older acts up currently

:30:03.:30:07.

regulating it, we must look carefully how much we want to but on

:30:08.:30:11.

the face of a Bill that is how much consensus we have to allow

:30:12.:30:13.

flexibility from day-to-day management of the level. There is a

:30:14.:30:19.

lot of detail I could go into the in discussing this Bill. Particularly

:30:20.:30:22.

relating to the patchwork of rather elderly acts that regulate that

:30:23.:30:26.

waterway. And allowed timing for debate, I will not go through them

:30:27.:30:30.

all. But I will respond to points in this debate am I look forward to the

:30:31.:30:34.

Minister's comments as well. I knew for a second reading to make the

:30:35.:30:40.

case and so the middle level can have an modern, up-to-date system of

:30:41.:30:47.

regulation that it deserves. The Bill be now read a second time. I am

:30:48.:30:55.

pleased arise to speak to the private Bill on behalf of the

:30:56.:30:59.

official opposition. Can I thank the honourable member for Torbay, for

:31:00.:31:03.

giving such a thorough covering of the background of the issue as

:31:04.:31:09.

needed. I'd like to emphasise a few points because I think it's

:31:10.:31:12.

important the House as a clear understanding about the proposals

:31:13.:31:19.

and why this is needed. The Bill updates and amends the powers of

:31:20.:31:22.

middle level commissioners. It brings the middle level into light

:31:23.:31:27.

with powers granted to the Environment Agency, the canal and

:31:28.:31:30.

River trust and the Norfolk Broads authority. We have heard that the

:31:31.:31:35.

existing legislation dates from the 18th and 19th centuries, primarily

:31:36.:31:39.

the middle level act of 1862. So it is remarkably out of date. The

:31:40.:31:45.

middle level commissioners provide flood defence and water management

:31:46.:31:50.

to the middle level area, and they are the navigational authority for

:31:51.:31:54.

the middle level river system. The middle level is the largest of the

:31:55.:31:59.

great level of defence. It was proclaimed by drainage of the land

:32:00.:32:03.

back in the 17th century. It currently consists of over 120 miles

:32:04.:32:07.

of water courses, with 100 of these being set free. But in the

:32:08.:32:13.

operations of the commissioners and the local drainage boards, much of

:32:14.:32:17.

this land would be underwater. As much of it is below sea level. This

:32:18.:32:23.

would have a devastating impact on the hundred thousand people who live

:32:24.:32:28.

and work in this area. The commissioners have consulted widely

:32:29.:32:33.

and family with interested parties, and the substantial majority were in

:32:34.:32:38.

favour of the proposed changes. So in a nutshell, the Bill would allow

:32:39.:32:41.

the middle level commissioners to charge vessels to use the waterways,

:32:42.:32:46.

to fine people staying longer then allowed on moorings, to check they

:32:47.:32:52.

have valid insurance, to remove sunken or abandoned vessels,

:32:53.:32:55.

temporarily close sections waterways for work or events, and enter it

:32:56.:33:01.

into arrangements with other navigation authorities of the mutual

:33:02.:33:05.

recognition of red Cliff, the registration and license. Chris

:33:06.:33:11.

Howells, who is a local boat enthusiast, told the local newspaper

:33:12.:33:16.

in 2016 that he agreed with the commission's plan. He cited the

:33:17.:33:20.

apparently abandoned boat rotting away on the old. These could be get

:33:21.:33:25.

rid off under the new powers. He said that the proposals are

:33:26.:33:29.

potentially so exciting and so beneficial, that it is hugely

:33:30.:33:32.

important that they come to fruition. So if we want this to

:33:33.:33:39.

aspire to be a tourist destination my column, generating income to

:33:40.:33:43.

invest in our currently largely successful waterways is a necessary

:33:44.:33:49.

stage. The chief Executive of the middle level commissioner, said it

:33:50.:33:52.

is important that we update the laws, to enable us to have better

:33:53.:33:55.

control of the waterways that we oversee. Additional income for the

:33:56.:34:02.

commissioners could make a real difference to the waterways. I

:34:03.:34:06.

personally know the area well, having living, lived there for a

:34:07.:34:11.

number of years. I would support efforts to boost a local economy.

:34:12.:34:18.

This brings the middle level into the 21st century in line with other

:34:19.:34:21.

navigation authorities, and we would support it. Minister Theresa Coffey.

:34:22.:34:41.

I am delighted to see my honourable member for North West Norfolk, as it

:34:42.:34:47.

is his birthday today. It shows how dedicated he is for the -- about his

:34:48.:34:54.

constituency duty. That is covered by the middle level can stitch,

:34:55.:35:02.

growth legislation, that includes my honourable friend for Southeast

:35:03.:35:07.

Norfolk and Northeast Cambridge. Being members of the government,

:35:08.:35:10.

they cannot speak directly to this Bill. Thank you for the kind

:35:11.:35:16.

remarks. Shall be aware of two things. First, quite a lot of the

:35:17.:35:21.

navigation traffic of boats and other crafts start in King's Lynn or

:35:22.:35:27.

in my constituency, they go upstream into waterways. Another point I'm

:35:28.:35:34.

sure she'll come onto, she and I share a passion for flood defences.

:35:35.:35:38.

The extra money will be used to secure some of these waterways to

:35:39.:35:42.

prevent flooding. But obviously would be devastating for all of us

:35:43.:35:45.

around the farm areas and many people who make their living in this

:35:46.:35:51.

particular area. As my honourable friend has pointed out, his

:35:52.:35:54.

constituency is ensuring that people who start the journey in his

:35:55.:35:59.

constituency are well served. I recognise what he says about the

:36:00.:36:02.

ability of waterways to help with flooding. The main purpose of the

:36:03.:36:06.

middle Level Bill is to amend and update the powers of the middle

:36:07.:36:09.

level commissioners to regulate the middle level in the city of

:36:10.:36:13.

Peterborough, and the counters of Cambridge and Norfolk. The

:36:14.:36:16.

commissioners being the navigational authorities of the waterways have

:36:17.:36:20.

these powers to arrange local Acts passed between 1663 and 1874. They

:36:21.:36:25.

are the fourth largest in the navigation authority in the country,

:36:26.:36:31.

by length and narrow waterway. They have previously lobbied my

:36:32.:36:34.

department, as my honourable friend laid out, as we the lead policy

:36:35.:36:38.

Department for navigation in land matters in this country. They wanted

:36:39.:36:41.

to take forward legislation in powers. Given the constraint on

:36:42.:36:48.

topic time, and the local focus, it was on our advice of the commission

:36:49.:36:52.

support for this private Bill and I welcome the work in bringing this

:36:53.:36:58.

board. With regards to government scrutiny of the Bill, as the

:36:59.:37:02.

Minister responsible, I want to be satisfied that the proposed

:37:03.:37:06.

legislation of this Bill is fit for purpose. I believe that it is as the

:37:07.:37:12.

existing leading framework that governments the function, is now

:37:13.:37:15.

considerably dated. Not only do some of the current laws that the

:37:16.:37:19.

Minister is working to remove, they do not allow for modern

:37:20.:37:25.

requirements. They do not align with statutory framework, including in

:37:26.:37:31.

particular the commissioners neighbouring navigational authority,

:37:32.:37:35.

which is responsible for navigation on the river. This Bill will update

:37:36.:37:41.

this legislation. Unlike many other navigation authorities such as the

:37:42.:37:45.

Environment Agency, which I have this version, the commissioners do

:37:46.:37:48.

not have charging powers to licensed boats with user navigation. This

:37:49.:37:52.

Bill will allow that to happen, and give them powers to introduce a

:37:53.:37:56.

registration scheme for vessels using waterways. It will give

:37:57.:37:58.

commission similar powers already exercise for other authorities such

:37:59.:38:04.

as the canals agency and the boards authority in respect of the

:38:05.:38:09.

navigation. The Bill will, importantly, not all to the

:38:10.:38:13.

commission's existing duty to maintain the navigation is, nor

:38:14.:38:17.

affect the public's right of navigation on the waterway. As a

:38:18.:38:20.

consequence, Madam Deputy Speaker, the government will be content for

:38:21.:38:32.

this Bill to make progress. I begin my speech by remarking about the

:38:33.:38:37.

fact that all politics is local, we are discussing the Middle Level Bill

:38:38.:38:42.

and earlier today, we were talking about major geopolitical issues

:38:43.:38:47.

including the voting of article 50. Such is the cornucopia of delight in

:38:48.:38:54.

the House of Commons. I believe that this Bill should not be the subject

:38:55.:38:59.

of a division. I think it is important we have a full and

:39:00.:39:06.

combines of debate today, but as it proceeds to build committee, so that

:39:07.:39:11.

as my honourable friend the Member for Torbay, who so eloquently

:39:12.:39:14.

introduced the Bill as a sponsor said, it can be looked at in much

:39:15.:39:22.

more detail. As we go on. I am a local member of Parliament but as my

:39:23.:39:26.

honourable friend the Minister is dead, it has not been possible for

:39:27.:39:30.

both ministers directly affected, but principally, my neighbour the

:39:31.:39:34.

honourable gentleman for North East amateur, to take part in this

:39:35.:39:38.

debate, as he is a government whip. But as members will know, the

:39:39.:39:43.

waterways on which we are discussing, and of debate, do meet

:39:44.:39:51.

at the city of Peterborough. So I have a connection and interest in

:39:52.:39:56.

the substance of this debate. I might make the point that in

:39:57.:40:01.

Cambridge, it is the revenue, if Northampton, quote Northamptonshire

:40:02.:40:05.

it is the river Nairn for some bizarre reason. May I pay tribute to

:40:06.:40:10.

one of the petitioners, my constituent Chris Taylor, of new

:40:11.:40:13.

Brewer, who has been indefatigable in raising this issue and to

:40:14.:40:22.

My concern and his is that I believe that the petitioning period was

:40:23.:40:33.

insufficient, there has not been a proper debate on this matter, and I

:40:34.:40:39.

do think principally that there hasn't been a costly therefore

:40:40.:40:44.

analysis, and the reason I put that point of view forward is that, as I

:40:45.:40:51.

said to him, we're not looking at a navigation authority which is

:40:52.:40:54.

analogous to others, such as the Port authority known across the

:40:55.:41:01.

country, which do provide better facilities, in fact provide any

:41:02.:41:05.

facilities. Therefore, to give on the face of the Bill legislative

:41:06.:41:13.

power to impose charges without upgrading those facilities would be

:41:14.:41:18.

draconian and a retrograde step, and that is essentially why I think we

:41:19.:41:23.

need to debate this matter further in committee. I understand the

:41:24.:41:31.

imperative legally to regularise the legal basis for the navigational

:41:32.:41:36.

authorities duties and responsibilities, with the proviso

:41:37.:41:39.

of course that the Government doesn't get involved in the detailed

:41:40.:41:45.

operational matters of the authority. But it does oversee their

:41:46.:41:54.

statutory duties, and I understand that they broadly supported the need

:41:55.:42:02.

to update and amend on the basis that they put in the documentation.

:42:03.:42:09.

Because it is, as the minister said, very aged legislation, it is not

:42:10.:42:15.

just 17th-century legislation, that the minister said, the middle level

:42:16.:42:22.

act of 1810 to 1874, the act of 1753, the land drainage act of 1991,

:42:23.:42:29.

and the flood of the management act of 2000 -- 2010, because what we're

:42:30.:42:34.

talking about is not a traditional canal or river, we're talking about

:42:35.:42:44.

interconnected open drains, which were used and drained in the 17th

:42:45.:42:49.

century in order to release land for agriculture and other uses. Because

:42:50.:42:53.

it is below sea level, until that period it was effectively an inland

:42:54.:42:58.

sea. The town of Whittlesea, the clue is in the name, it was pretty

:42:59.:43:04.

wet and it was not used greatly, although I would say of course as a

:43:05.:43:09.

local MP that it has some of the finest Agut cultural land in Britain

:43:10.:43:15.

if not Europe, because that is incredibly well irrigated. --

:43:16.:43:18.

agricultural. We have to look at the fact that this navigation authority

:43:19.:43:23.

is difference of Stansted from those more traditional navigational

:43:24.:43:28.

authorities. The key issue which has caused concern is not just the very

:43:29.:43:36.

basic issue of charges, as covered in part two, clause three and

:43:37.:43:40.

potentially clause nine under the bylaws of this Bill. But the fact

:43:41.:43:45.

that it is a contention of the petitioners, and I accept that they

:43:46.:43:49.

are in the minority, but it is a contention that those, not quite

:43:50.:43:54.

ancient rights, but well-established historical rights bestowed upon them

:43:55.:43:58.

in the latter part of the 17th century by the Duke of Bedford a

:43:59.:44:02.

major landowner, to the east of Peterborough and in the fence as a

:44:03.:44:07.

whole, that Rose are being curtailed and reduced, so that the rights of

:44:08.:44:12.

navigation. They make a contention in their petition and further papers

:44:13.:44:18.

that those rates go back much further, beyond the Magna Carter and

:44:19.:44:24.

1215, even to the fourth century. That is a major issue. If I could

:44:25.:44:30.

put more detail on the complaint they have. Bearing in mind, this is

:44:31.:44:37.

about charges on pleasure boats. The 600 pleasure those that use this

:44:38.:44:43.

hundred miles of waterway every year, it is not about commercial

:44:44.:44:49.

activity. I accept that in these economic times it is one has to look

:44:50.:44:52.

where one can have a public authority in order to secure extra

:44:53.:44:57.

funding. It cannot just come from landowners and farmers and the

:44:58.:45:00.

taxpayer, they have to look at other ways. I do not have an ideological

:45:01.:45:05.

aversion to further tools and charges, but I do have an aversion

:45:06.:45:12.

to any unfairness to people who are existing users of the facilities. At

:45:13.:45:17.

the moment, there are no services on this waterway. There are no

:45:18.:45:23.

motorboats. There are no mood rings or toilets showers are collection

:45:24.:45:29.

points for rubbish. More importantly, notwithstanding the

:45:30.:45:32.

fact that secondary legislation might ameliorate the issue, at the

:45:33.:45:35.

moment they are not on the face of the Bill and are not promised. I

:45:36.:45:41.

think that is and ported point made in the documentation by the

:45:42.:45:44.

residential boat owners Association, and the National Bard Travelers

:45:45.:45:49.

Association. I think there is an important issue to raise correctly,

:45:50.:45:54.

by my honourable friend, that there is an issue of human rights

:45:55.:45:58.

legislation because if under article eight you are curtailing the right

:45:59.:46:02.

to a family life by removing a passage those people to enjoy what

:46:03.:46:07.

is their home, a barge for instance, or a pleasure cruiser, then that is

:46:08.:46:11.

a wider legal issue, and I'm sure that may be explored further in

:46:12.:46:23.

committee. Thank you for giving way. Would you not accept though it is

:46:24.:46:29.

not a question of using levies for fees provide services, but also

:46:30.:46:32.

there is an essential maintenance that is needed, because these are

:46:33.:46:37.

maintained and in the worst case scenario you can have the banks

:46:38.:46:41.

giving way, because after all as he rightly points out, this was an

:46:42.:46:47.

error that was drained in the 16th century. -- area. It is eight

:46:48.:46:52.

question of maintaining the fabric of these waterways. May act actually

:46:53.:47:01.

congratulations of the House for his birthday. He is pretty ageless.

:47:02.:47:07.

Felicitations to my honourable friend. He is right, the flood

:47:08.:47:15.

prevention, flood ameliorate and is massively important, we agree. I

:47:16.:47:24.

will give way. Coming as I do from Somerset, I am not familiar with the

:47:25.:47:31.

exact area, but example is just the same, surely any income that can be

:47:32.:47:36.

raised from navigation of the waterways would be welcomed, because

:47:37.:47:40.

currently, as I understand it, money for the drainage levies that ought

:47:41.:47:48.

to be going to vital prevention work to protect your precious farmland is

:47:49.:47:53.

indeed being diverted to navigation work? This legislation is just

:47:54.:47:57.

tightening that up, to correct this injustice. I am mindful of time and

:47:58.:48:04.

other members wish to contribute, so I will wrap up, because the whip is

:48:05.:48:11.

giving the the evil eye. And only her most endearing way. I don't

:48:12.:48:19.

think... I defer to the knowledge of my honourable friend, and I know

:48:20.:48:26.

that in Somerset they suffered the most appalling drama of widescale

:48:27.:48:32.

flooding five years ago or thereabouts, and I don't think it is

:48:33.:48:37.

mutually exclusive four hours to be removing sunken boats, dredging and

:48:38.:48:43.

do a important in infrastructure work there needs to be done, but I

:48:44.:48:47.

think it needs to be done on a more systematic way, I am unconvinced as

:48:48.:48:51.

to whether this Private Bill, which seeks to be quite innocuous, but is

:48:52.:48:57.

potentially quite Kone invited imposes on people whose rights have

:48:58.:49:01.

been established for many hundreds of years, I'm not convinced. I will

:49:02.:49:08.

conclude by saying, Madam Deputy Speaker and has been a pleasure to

:49:09.:49:11.

have had the opportunity to represent Mr Taylor and some of the

:49:12.:49:16.

other people, if we are not here to represent unfashionable views of our

:49:17.:49:19.

constituents then we are wasting our time. But I hope will happen is that

:49:20.:49:26.

in the course of the debate, about this Bill, that both the petitioners

:49:27.:49:31.

and others with a key interest in the middle level will have an

:49:32.:49:36.

opportunity to have a cordial and productive meeting with the middle

:49:37.:49:39.

level Commissioners, and when it goes to committee, they will take on

:49:40.:49:44.

board some of those comments and the Bill will be improved so that we can

:49:45.:49:49.

regularise the legislative necessity for this Bill, but at the same time

:49:50.:49:53.

keep faith in those people who are the lifeblood of this area, the

:49:54.:49:58.

pleasure boat users, because we need to look after their interests. I

:49:59.:50:03.

hope we will find a mutually beneficial compromise in the near

:50:04.:50:11.

future. Thank you madam that the Speaker, I am Michael of the hour,

:50:12.:50:16.

so I'll keep my contribution brief. As a member of the APPG on

:50:17.:50:22.

waterways, and as a narrow boat enthusiast -- narrow boat

:50:23.:50:25.

enthusiasts. I support this Private Bill today. I would like to take if

:50:26.:50:30.

you manage to explain why. Across the country, we have benefited and

:50:31.:50:36.

continue to benefit from an incredible network of over 2000

:50:37.:50:41.

miles of canals, waterways and other navigations. In my own constituency,

:50:42.:50:46.

we have the Essington and were later now, a canal that we have taken our

:50:47.:50:52.

own boat on. I've never been on the middle levels yet. Once the means

:50:53.:50:58.

for transporting goods in and out and across the West Midlands, today

:50:59.:51:02.

it is very much a place for walking and for leisure. The work of the

:51:03.:51:07.

canal and the river trust, the aid in what ways Association and others

:51:08.:51:10.

including many local organisations, charities and voluntary groups, we

:51:11.:51:16.

have seen a remarkable revival in our waterways in recent years, and

:51:17.:51:20.

we are seeing them being put under more sustainable footing. But

:51:21.:51:27.

turning to this Private Bill, the middle level Bill, it relates

:51:28.:51:31.

specifically, as we've heard, to the central and larger section of the

:51:32.:51:35.

great level of the fence, an area we claim by that I can be claimed by an

:51:36.:51:39.

drainage in the mid-17th century, and there are members him a far more

:51:40.:51:44.

local knowledge than I would ever declare having, but it covers 120

:51:45.:51:49.

miles of watercourses, 100 of which are statutory navigation. The Bill

:51:50.:51:53.

in front of us today seeks to modernise the Commissioner 's

:51:54.:51:59.

operations and powers, in particular allows them to levy charges and uses

:52:00.:52:04.

of the waterways to pay for the navigation functions. I will very

:52:05.:52:10.

briefly give way. One of the issues that has been in the press can last

:52:11.:52:13.

few days is the amount of litter that has been deposited across the

:52:14.:52:18.

countryside, and some of it has been deposited in what awaits. Does she

:52:19.:52:23.

feel that the charges would enable that letter to be taken away and

:52:24.:52:26.

disposed of in a place that it should've been? If that is part of

:52:27.:52:29.

the purpose, then it's got to be a step in the right direction. I'm

:52:30.:52:33.

grateful to him for his intervention. What I notice when I'm

:52:34.:52:39.

out on the waterways is that there are stretches where we do see a lot

:52:40.:52:44.

of litter and often baby, but every user of our canals, be they on the

:52:45.:52:48.

water or icy walking, has a responsibility and duty to play

:52:49.:52:52.

their own part in collecting that letter as well as it being a

:52:53.:53:01.

provision. Referring back to the Bill, what is particularly

:53:02.:53:04.

interesting is that Commissioners currently have no navigation income,

:53:05.:53:11.

and any navigation works must be subsidised by those who pay a

:53:12.:53:17.

drainage level -- levy, in fact the largest navigation authority in the

:53:18.:53:25.

country without a navigation income. I'm also that fact and almost about

:53:26.:53:29.

to conclude. I will just continue. I am mindful of time. This Bill to

:53:30.:53:35.

conclude, in my view, is needed because it will aid in the middle

:53:36.:53:39.

level Commissioners to become, and this is crucial, a sustainable

:53:40.:53:42.

navigation authority with the proper powers to manage a 21st-century

:53:43.:53:47.

navigation, which I think is in the interests of those who use it and

:53:48.:53:54.

those in the local area as well. May I begin by saying that this debate

:53:55.:54:01.

would not have taken place if I had it as he blocked this Bill going

:54:02.:54:04.

through on the second reading. We have already heard the benefits of

:54:05.:54:10.

having a proper second reading debate on a Private Bill. Can I also

:54:11.:54:19.

say that I think having spoken to some of the petitioners on the

:54:20.:54:24.

telephone, that the promoters of this Bill have a serious

:54:25.:54:28.

responsibility to actually engage with those people who take a

:54:29.:54:34.

different view or have concerns about the contents of this Bill. I

:54:35.:54:39.

was told by one of the petitioners that there had to be no contact

:54:40.:54:45.

whatsoever with the authorities on this, and it is easy to see were,

:54:46.:54:51.

when we get to this going to and proposed Bill committee, and I got

:54:52.:54:56.

no objection to this having a second reading, I think it is important

:54:57.:54:59.

that when it goes to the opposed Bill committee, that is after they

:55:00.:55:07.

had been an exhaustive discussion between petitioners and the

:55:08.:55:11.

promoters, rather than that being used as the forum for that

:55:12.:55:15.

discussion, because the Private Bill procedure in committee is an

:55:16.:55:19.

expensive and potentially adversarial one, and I would have

:55:20.:55:23.

wished that they would be more discussion between the promoters and

:55:24.:55:24.

the objectors. In my own speech, he gave the

:55:25.:55:33.

example of the march cruising club, I am but, group advised they are

:55:34.:55:39.

written and telephoned, but no reply was received. I would agree that

:55:40.:55:48.

there needs to be further engagement and the formal session of the

:55:49.:55:54.

committee. I'm glad he agrees. With the need for informal engagement

:55:55.:56:00.

before it gets to the proposed Bill committee, because some of these

:56:01.:56:06.

petitioners are not well funded but if there is a long period in private

:56:07.:56:11.

Bill committee where they have to be represented by counsel, the costs

:56:12.:56:18.

will be disproportionately high. The other point I'd make at this stage

:56:19.:56:26.

is that there's recently been a very illuminating report from the

:56:27.:56:33.

National Audit Office, published on 21st March, on internal drainage

:56:34.:56:38.

boards. Basically, what we are talking about today is a whole

:56:39.:56:43.

connection of drain. We are not talking the canals, we are talking

:56:44.:56:47.

about drains. In that portable from the National Audit Office, -- report

:56:48.:56:55.

from the National Audit Office, there is need for proper oversight

:56:56.:56:59.

and assurance that these internal debt drainage boards are not going

:57:00.:57:05.

to engage in conflicts of interest. Then I noticed that within the

:57:06.:57:09.

middle level, there are 33 independent internal drainage

:57:10.:57:15.

districts. And each is responsible for the local drainage of the area.

:57:16.:57:23.

When we thought about giving more powers to the middle level

:57:24.:57:28.

commissioners, I think we need to be very circumspect about what checks

:57:29.:57:33.

and balances that are in relation to the exercise of those powers. I hope

:57:34.:57:38.

that that is something that the committee will be able to

:57:39.:57:43.

investigate when it meets to consider these proposals. And the

:57:44.:57:49.

petition against them. I'm going to refer briefly to some of these

:57:50.:57:58.

positions. One is from a man called Nigel Moore who calls himself a boat

:57:59.:58:02.

owner and boat manager on various navigation, he's an adviser on

:58:03.:58:08.

nationwide legal issues about boating, and a late advocate for

:58:09.:58:14.

vote in High Court action, where issues rise over the allocation of

:58:15.:58:19.

similar causes. He objects to be built because it entails a clear

:58:20.:58:26.

abolition of private and public right to no justifiable purpose, and

:58:27.:58:31.

will lead to unnecessary future litigation over the ambiguities. And

:58:32.:58:39.

he refers, like other petitioners, to interpretation of the wide

:58:40.:58:42.

interpretation of the expression waterways, which is being sought to

:58:43.:58:47.

be included in the Bill, and if one looks at schedule one of the Bill,

:58:48.:58:52.

one can see the waterways will extend to a lot of areas which are

:58:53.:58:58.

not even navigable, and would also extend the commission's powers to

:58:59.:59:03.

adjacent waters including private waters, which are not currently

:59:04.:59:05.

within the commission's jurisdiction. This apparently, Mr

:59:06.:59:14.

Moore says, has been a contentious point in relation to legislation. He

:59:15.:59:25.

mentions rights being taken away, surely we are talking about some

:59:26.:59:29.

responsibilities. A few extra charges, but what right did he have

:59:30.:59:35.

in mind that will be removed. At the moment, people for example, who are

:59:36.:59:40.

the owners of private waters, which are not subject to the middle level

:59:41.:59:47.

commissioners, they will be as a result of this act, incorporated

:59:48.:59:53.

within the responsibilities of the middle level commissioners, and the

:59:54.:59:56.

middle level commissioners will be able to use the regulatory powers in

:59:57.:00:02.

relation to what is currently private waters. That seems to me to

:00:03.:00:09.

be an extension well beyond the Cole what one might have thought of as

:00:10.:00:15.

the scope of this Bill. As my noble friend knows, as soon as people get

:00:16.:00:19.

chance to legislate, they want to take more powers. Then they strictly

:00:20.:00:24.

need. That is one of the concerns of the petition. I give way. Does he

:00:25.:00:29.

agrees with me that there is a level of confusion as to the duties and

:00:30.:00:34.

responsibilities of the authority, as enunciated in the Bill, as

:00:35.:00:38.

between navigation and dredging? That needs to be clarified when the

:00:39.:00:41.

Bill proceeds to committee, potentially. That again is a good

:00:42.:00:47.

point. It is raised by several of the petition. Can take other

:00:48.:00:56.

concerns expressed by Mr Moore, is that he objects to clause 83 -- 8.3,

:00:57.:01:03.

because the wording of the clause follows the contentious wording of

:01:04.:01:10.

the waterways that section eight, which has years of litigation to its

:01:11.:01:14.

effects, and he would prefer a wording of similar clause of the

:01:15.:01:19.

biomed agency inland waterways set 2012 section 16 because that allows

:01:20.:01:25.

for no ambiguity and unwarranted extension of powers. He says the

:01:26.:01:30.

wording, without lawful authority, import 8.3, is in applicable to

:01:31.:01:34.

refer to boat on public navigable waters, won the right to the

:01:35.:01:39.

waterways derived from the public right and the proposed provisions

:01:40.:01:43.

for registration of boat does not change that. He says that that is

:01:44.:01:47.

actually in line with the Environment Agency's submissions,

:01:48.:01:50.

and the recent case on the Thames which he thinks was correct. As

:01:51.:01:54.

worded, the proposed clause would not only be against the express

:01:55.:01:58.

policy of the Environment Agency, but in his view it will be

:01:59.:02:03.

ineffectual in law. Contrary to the exportation of the commissioners,

:02:04.:02:10.

and in prejudice to voters. I hope those issues raised by Mr Moore,

:02:11.:02:18.

will be. There is a petition from the March cruising club, which is

:02:19.:02:23.

submitted by Mr Harwood, the club harbour master, apart from

:02:24.:02:29.

complaining about the inadequate consultation, he raises a number of

:02:30.:02:41.

issues. Following on, the history that has been given by a number in

:02:42.:02:45.

this debate, he says that pleasure boats have had three, grow free

:02:46.:02:53.

navigation to the old River. Which forms a large section of the river

:02:54.:03:00.

level, from before 1215, protected by Magna Carta and subsequent

:03:01.:03:05.

statutes and Royal commission. There are even Roman transcripts

:03:06.:03:08.

describing navigation along the old River as early as the fourth century

:03:09.:03:14.

during the Roman occupation. The river is natural and the public

:03:15.:03:18.

right of navigation has existed since time immemorial, and was first

:03:19.:03:22.

clarified in the Magna Carta of 1215. I'm not sure if he's aware of

:03:23.:03:32.

the preamble of the navigation act 1753 which describes the ancient

:03:33.:03:37.

navigation as being at all times extremely tedious, difficult and

:03:38.:03:39.

dangerous, and very frequently altogether impracticable. My

:03:40.:03:45.

honourable friend, I don't care what the pointers. He refers to a

:03:46.:03:49.

preamble to a piece of legislation which of course is not an act of

:03:50.:03:56.

Parliament. I'm not sure it really undermines any thing that I put.

:03:57.:04:03.

Inciting what has been submitted by the March cruising club. I'm sure

:04:04.:04:09.

that when the promoters engage properly with the March cruising

:04:10.:04:15.

club, there will be able to explore the issue further. One of the other

:04:16.:04:20.

points made by the cruising club, and contradicts an number of

:04:21.:04:23.

assertions that have already been made in this debate, is that the

:04:24.:04:26.

commissioners already have the power to charge boats for the use of the

:04:27.:04:30.

waterways. What they don't have is the power to charge pleasure boats.

:04:31.:04:38.

If a shortfall, as has been alleged, of 178,000 unfunded expenditure,

:04:39.:04:41.

then there is nothing to stop the Commissioner starting to charge

:04:42.:04:47.

vessels which are not pleasure boats or charging for other activities.

:04:48.:04:55.

That would be consistent with the historical rights of pleasure boat

:04:56.:04:59.

owners to use this navigation without charge. He goes on to say,

:05:00.:05:13.

basically, that this is a network of navigable terrains. It is therefore

:05:14.:05:19.

in a different category from some of the other comparators that have been

:05:20.:05:24.

cited in support by the promoters of this Bill. They make a number of

:05:25.:05:35.

other points in the submission. One of them is echoed by my honourable

:05:36.:05:40.

friend, the Peterborough. Boat the Bill contains no obligations under

:05:41.:05:49.

which the would-be duty-bound to provide water for dredging,

:05:50.:05:51.

maintenance, or any facilities to vote, boaters. The legislation would

:05:52.:06:01.

force the EU to register annual licensees, being a criminal offence

:06:02.:06:10.

to... Must display a registration number, repeal a licence, so there

:06:11.:06:19.

will be no advantage from boaters at in return and ultimately this will

:06:20.:06:23.

destroy the middle level navigation as far as the boating community is

:06:24.:06:27.

concerned. They have a number of other detailed points but I won't

:06:28.:06:34.

fight them all, Madam Deputy Speaker. But unless these issues are

:06:35.:06:42.

resolved amicably, between the commissioners and the promoters,

:06:43.:06:48.

then this Bill is going to have a pretty slow passage through this

:06:49.:06:56.

House. I'm sure that members of this House will not wish to impinge upon

:06:57.:07:03.

the rights of individuals which are being enjoyed for many years. Unless

:07:04.:07:10.

those are very strong -- there is a very strong justification for

:07:11.:07:14.

impinging those rights. Another petition comes Mr John Hodges, who

:07:15.:07:18.

describes himself as a member of the public, a homeowner with a mooring

:07:19.:07:23.

on the banks of the middle level, and he says that the proposals will

:07:24.:07:32.

directly and specially affect his rights and that's an indication of

:07:33.:07:37.

another category of objector. There is also a petition against this from

:07:38.:07:46.

somebody called Derek Pace. Mr Pace describes himself as living on a

:07:47.:07:52.

narrow boat, which since it is not a commercial boat, most fits the

:07:53.:07:57.

description of pleasure boat in the 1684 act. On the middle level. This

:07:58.:08:02.

has been his home since 2011. He says it was only available and

:08:03.:08:08.

affordable because after he watched lost his home of eight years when

:08:09.:08:13.

his father died. He alleges the proposals will affect his rights and

:08:14.:08:17.

interests, including allowing the commission of new powers to seize

:08:18.:08:21.

his home and sell it on the less than it is valued. Effectively make

:08:22.:08:25.

him homeless, destitute as an additional cost to the state. He

:08:26.:08:31.

says the Bill contains no protection for the home, grow hundreds of

:08:32.:08:37.

people who live on boats like him. That was the theme picked up by

:08:38.:08:47.

Pamela Smith's cup from -- from the bhajis. They have have done boats

:08:48.:08:58.

for many years. They don't have moorings but feel threatened by what

:08:59.:09:03.

is the pros. She estimated that there may be as many as between

:09:04.:09:10.

10000 and 25,000 people, not just in this area, but throughout the United

:09:11.:09:15.

Kingdom, who are living on boats but not at a fixed mooring. This is a

:09:16.:09:25.

sort of different sort of itinerant beauty, and Mrs Pamela Smith feels

:09:26.:09:31.

the this particular group of people are going to be very much

:09:32.:09:35.

discriminated against by what is proposed in March of this private

:09:36.:09:46.

Bill. Those concerns are echoed by other petitioners. Another point

:09:47.:09:55.

picked up here, Madam Deputy Speaker, is clause nine refers to

:09:56.:10:01.

giving the commissioners more bylaws, but they already have

:10:02.:10:06.

adequate by lawmaking powers under the middle level act of 1870,

:10:07.:10:14.

Under clause nine examining two the get people's homes, which be

:10:15.:10:20.

unnecessary invasion of personal space. They are statutory bodies,

:10:21.:10:27.

including the police, and the 30 two into peoples homes, requiring voters

:10:28.:10:30.

to surrender their right to privacy as a condition of being granted a

:10:31.:10:36.

licence navigate, is an reasonable and intrusive. You can see, Madam

:10:37.:10:42.

Deputy Speaker, that there are quite significant attempts in this Bill

:10:43.:10:49.

imposed upon the rights of individuals, and I noticed when the

:10:50.:10:56.

minister gave her certification in relation to whether or not this Bill

:10:57.:11:02.

was compliant with the European Convention of human rights, that you

:11:03.:11:07.

said was, she had no reason to suppose that the assertions made by

:11:08.:11:11.

the promoters were incorrect. I'm not sure from that be can be

:11:12.:11:16.

satisfied that the Government has yet explored these issues relating

:11:17.:11:24.

to human rights for its own purposes, and to ensure that

:11:25.:11:28.

actually the Government can assure as that, in the Government's own

:11:29.:11:32.

view, not just relying on the promoters, that this Bill is fully

:11:33.:11:37.

compliant with the law on human rights. Madam Deputy is bigger, my

:11:38.:11:45.

honourable friend for Peterborough has already referred to the petition

:11:46.:11:49.

from Christopher Taylor, his constituent. I would refer to that

:11:50.:11:58.

again. I have already referred briefly to what Pamela Smith has

:11:59.:12:02.

said on behalf of the National by the travellers association. But that

:12:03.:12:12.

organisation has put in a major objection to much of what is

:12:13.:12:18.

contained within this Bill. It has over 700 members, for local groups,

:12:19.:12:27.

and represents the interests of the estimated 15,000 to 30,000 bhaji

:12:28.:12:31.

travellers in the United Kingdom. A significant number of the

:12:32.:12:36.

disassociation either live permanently on the middle levels or

:12:37.:12:41.

use the waterways regularly, and therefore it is a matter of great

:12:42.:12:45.

regret that there hasn't been any proper discussion with the

:12:46.:12:51.

travellers on the very important issues which are contained within

:12:52.:12:59.

this Bill, and I hope that that will be remedied much sooner rather than

:13:00.:13:10.

later. They say also that many bhaji travellers use the middle levels as

:13:11.:13:15.

a channel between the east Anglian waterways and the rest of the inland

:13:16.:13:19.

waterways, and there is no other inland waterway route, and it would

:13:20.:13:25.

be no choice but to be bound by the imposed terms and conditions and to

:13:26.:13:33.

pay the proposed charges. Mr Deputy Speaker, I am not very familiar with

:13:34.:13:41.

this part of the friends, and I'm not particularly, apart from having

:13:42.:13:48.

visited other people who have got narrow boats, I am not familiar with

:13:49.:13:55.

that type of recreational use of boozing. But I am familiar with the

:13:56.:14:00.

sort of recreational use of browsing in my constituency in Christchurch,

:14:01.:14:06.

and all I can say is that if my constituents when faced with some of

:14:07.:14:12.

the new proposed regulations and powers to invade their privacy to --

:14:13.:14:20.

proposed in the middle level of the fans, then they would be outraged in

:14:21.:14:29.

deed. And we have more on the river in Christchurch, a large number of

:14:30.:14:32.

votes, and they do not all have names on them and certainly you

:14:33.:14:39.

don't have two declare your name and address to some passing enforcement

:14:40.:14:44.

officer, so it seems to me, Mr Deputy Speaker, that there is a lot

:14:45.:14:49.

in this Bill which should be removed before it comes back for further

:14:50.:14:55.

consideration at report stage, and I hope that a detailed discussion in

:14:56.:15:00.

consideration and scrutiny of this in committee, that that will be the

:15:01.:15:06.

consequence. We will then be able to look back on this and say, this has

:15:07.:15:11.

been a worthwhile exercise because a not very good Bill has been much

:15:12.:15:16.

improved as a result of proper scrutiny. So, Mr Deputy Speaker, I

:15:17.:15:21.

am not going to speak at length again on this occasion, but I

:15:22.:15:31.

reserve the right on behalf of the petitioners, and I know my

:15:32.:15:34.

honourable friend for Peterborough is equally concerned about this,

:15:35.:15:38.

that the rights of these petitioners are heard in this great home of

:15:39.:15:51.

democracy. Thank you, Deputy Speaker,. I would certainly thank

:15:52.:15:58.

the members for Peterborough, and for Christchurch for the detailed

:15:59.:16:02.

scrutiny and consideration given to this Bill this afternoon. There are

:16:03.:16:05.

certainly elements that we can take from this debate and deal with in

:16:06.:16:09.

committee stage, and particular round some of the rights of powers

:16:10.:16:12.

and engagement then is to be. Given we had such a thorough airing of

:16:13.:16:16.

this Bill, all that remains for me to Bill is to move this Bill to be

:16:17.:16:24.

met a second time. As many of that opinion the McAdoo. On the country,

:16:25.:16:32.

say no. The ayes have it. The question is as on the paper, may on

:16:33.:16:37.

that opinion the aye. Ali Carter, say no. The ayes have it. Rather

:16:38.:16:48.

earlier than I feared, but I am delighted to be addressing the House

:16:49.:16:52.

on the petition on school funding. I must declare an interest, as I sit

:16:53.:16:58.

on the board of the Academy trust at Hillview School for girls, and

:16:59.:17:02.

excellent local school, but one of many excellent local schools that

:17:03.:17:06.

are all going to be straggling that are struggling with the new formula,

:17:07.:17:09.

and I had been petitioned by 75 people on paper and a further few

:17:10.:17:15.

hundred electronically, in order to present a petition to the House of

:17:16.:17:20.

Commons which reads, the petition of residents of Tonbridge declares that

:17:21.:17:23.

school in the area remain underfunded under both the current

:17:24.:17:28.

and proposed funding plans. The petitioners therefore urge the House

:17:29.:17:30.

of Commons denote the objections to the funding formula for schools in

:17:31.:17:32.

Tonbridge. The petitioners remain. Petition, school funding in

:17:33.:18:01.

Tonbridge and Marling. I beg to move this has to adjourn. - thank you, Mr

:18:02.:18:09.

Deputy Speaker, and would like to use as a judgment of this evening to

:18:10.:18:15.

the failure of Hyde Housing Association in my constituency to

:18:16.:18:19.

honour its pledges and promises to the residents of it landed estates

:18:20.:18:26.

and properties. Back in 1999, the tenants and residents of the central

:18:27.:18:31.

stock will area voted for a stock transfer from the council to high

:18:32.:18:38.

homes, part of the Hyde group. 2000 houses were transferred from Lambeth

:18:39.:18:43.

Council and a few years later in 2005 these 650 homes in the

:18:44.:18:47.

Kennington Park estate and the Bridge estate near the Oval followed

:18:48.:18:53.

suit. Hyde Southbank homes were very proactive and very good landlords in

:18:54.:18:59.

the first few years. Headed up then I be was legendary Charlie Adams, it

:19:00.:19:04.

was a bottom-up organisation keen to stick to its commitments are

:19:05.:19:08.

providing tenants with good quality, well managed and well maintained

:19:09.:19:11.

homes at affordable rents in the future. Unfortunately on this sad

:19:12.:19:17.

death of Charlie and the many changes that they made, the

:19:18.:19:21.

management and maintenance went downhill, and residents began to see

:19:22.:19:27.

their real difference. The official documentation of agreement between

:19:28.:19:32.

the residents of Hyde Southbank homes constituted a legal document.

:19:33.:19:38.

It stated, this contact with contain a legally binding document that Hyde

:19:39.:19:41.

Southbank homes would keep all the promises made to you in this

:19:42.:19:46.

document. When deciding about the future ownership of their homes, as

:19:47.:19:50.

you would expect, given incident took there responsibly that Agnes

:19:51.:19:56.

Bollettieri seriously and took the promises they were given very

:19:57.:20:01.

seriously. Were assured legally and morally that they could rely on

:20:02.:20:05.

legal protection, not just at the time of the transfer, but into the

:20:06.:20:10.

future, and the promise doctrine also stated, any surplus money that

:20:11.:20:13.

Hyde Southbank homes makes will remain within the Hyde Southbank

:20:14.:20:18.

homes and will not be shared with any other part of the Hyde group.

:20:19.:20:22.

Hyde explicitly promised that the existing community buildings would

:20:23.:20:26.

be refurbished to provide facilities for all residents, non-Housing

:20:27.:20:32.

services such as improved community facilities would be provided, and

:20:33.:20:36.

they would be encouraging better and more regular use of local

:20:37.:20:41.

facilities, such as the community centres. There are two committee

:20:42.:20:47.

holds owned and managed by Hyde in my constituency, and now they are

:20:48.:20:54.

both at risk in a complete reneging of Hyde Housing's promises to the

:20:55.:20:59.

residents. Following a very unsatisfactory so-called

:21:00.:21:06.

consultation between November and January 2017, Hyde decided to go

:21:07.:21:09.

ahead and with their plans to privatise the community centre and

:21:10.:21:15.

are looking for an organisation to take it on. They have now extended

:21:16.:21:20.

the closing date for its best is of interest from suitable

:21:21.:21:23.

organisations, because only three expressions of interest where

:21:24.:21:27.

received, and because the interested organisations were relatively small,

:21:28.:21:30.

but small town turnovers, and therefore not any strong enough

:21:31.:21:33.

organisation financial position to take responsibility for the building

:21:34.:21:40.

and its management. We also believe these organisations find the

:21:41.:21:44.

conditions for taking the lease of the Centre soap restrictive that it

:21:45.:21:46.

would be of no benefit our advantage to the organisation and we are very

:21:47.:21:51.

concerned and the residents are concerned about the intention of

:21:52.:21:56.

Hyde, honey setting conditions which no well-regarded not-for-profit

:21:57.:22:01.

organisation can agree with Mike under these conditions, the centre

:22:02.:22:04.

could not be made in nicely viable. The Kennington Park estate has been

:22:05.:22:10.

earmarked for closure and demolition, to allow for the

:22:11.:22:15.

building of new homes. We would say, great, new homes, but nearly all of

:22:16.:22:20.

them are designed for sale private shared ownership. The consultation

:22:21.:22:27.

on this for all of the residents of the estate who have a stake in the

:22:28.:22:31.

future of it immediately centre has been very poor indeed. All members

:22:32.:22:37.

of the households on Kennington Park estate past and present or potential

:22:38.:22:44.

futures users of the centre are entitled to be asked what they

:22:45.:22:51.

think. This did not happen. Hyde seemed to think that it was the

:22:52.:22:56.

TRA's responsibility to carry out consultation, but the consultation

:22:57.:22:59.

should have been much wider than just the very immediate past decided

:23:00.:23:04.

the committee the centre, because that centre is used by many people

:23:05.:23:10.

from all around the area. It was a very shoddy consultation, they put

:23:11.:23:20.

out some questions and answers to residents, saying that they owned

:23:21.:23:25.

and managed the media centres, the cost of them was becoming too much

:23:26.:23:32.

for them, and that they therefore try to take advantage of the

:23:33.:23:37.

Government 's 1% reduction for social housing means that they have

:23:38.:23:41.

to make savings. The minister may be surprised to know that despite

:23:42.:23:47.

residents' not liking this 1% rate reduction for social housing, they

:23:48.:23:57.

actually blaming this -- appreciating this at all. It is

:23:58.:24:00.

completely inaccurate to say that Hyde subsidises the running cost,

:24:01.:24:04.

because its income from the tenets' rents to contribute to the

:24:05.:24:08.

maintenance of services such as community centres. It also said

:24:09.:24:14.

that, as a housing provider, the need to make efficient use of their

:24:15.:24:17.

income to prioritise building more homes to help address the housing

:24:18.:24:23.

crisis. This means they have to make difficult choices about what

:24:24.:24:27.

additional services they continue to fund and what they stop. The

:24:28.:24:32.

residents strongly feel that any responsible landlord is required to

:24:33.:24:36.

prioritise delivery of an acceptable standard of landlord services to its

:24:37.:24:42.

existing tenants first. It is a real matter of concern and disappointment

:24:43.:24:47.

to the residents, local councils and myself that Hyde only too clearly

:24:48.:24:51.

puts the funding of new build above its duty and responsibility to

:24:52.:24:55.

deliver to an acceptable standard the full rate of landlord services

:24:56.:25:02.

as required by law. What has happened is that as it will find out

:25:03.:25:10.

about this, it is very clear that the committee is against this. Hyde

:25:11.:25:18.

asserts as I mentioned that they cannot afford to run the Kennington

:25:19.:25:25.

Park Centre D1 stock well. Yet Hyde Housing their current shows a

:25:26.:25:31.

surplus by 2015 and 2016 of over ?2 million and revenue reserves of over

:25:32.:25:39.

?46 million. Member what I mentioned at the beginning, commitments made

:25:40.:25:43.

when it transfers took place, any surplus money that they make would

:25:44.:25:49.

remain in HS age, and would not be shared with any other part of Hyde.

:25:50.:25:53.

That was the promise. In other words, the surface and reserves

:25:54.:25:56.

should be first being reinvested in HS age and should not be just

:25:57.:26:00.

getting up to the high group for building of new housing. At the same

:26:01.:26:08.

time, they should not be replacing the community centre already there.

:26:09.:26:14.

Hyde's argument is that it needs to prioritise building homes, and for

:26:15.:26:18.

all others that is a priority and we know that more than anyone. This is

:26:19.:26:31.

not the same as the revenue generated from the rents. The

:26:32.:26:34.

Kennedy and Parker says residents Association that the revenue

:26:35.:26:39.

generated from the rents does cover the bridge was provided to keep the

:26:40.:26:43.

centre open and running, given that that is less than 2% of HS age's

:26:44.:26:50.

2015, 2016 surplus. Which incidentally was linked to a time

:26:51.:26:55.

when the community centre was closed very often when income was at its

:26:56.:27:01.

potential lowest level due to hide's indecision and incompetence and bad

:27:02.:27:05.

management. There is just real shock that Hyde, after what they promised,

:27:06.:27:12.

and in the early stages of how well they did work with local residents,

:27:13.:27:17.

have now decided to go down this route. Hyde Housing is failing in so

:27:18.:27:23.

many fronts, not just the community centres, from service charges, has

:27:24.:27:29.

one leaders said they are in chaos, the day-to-day maintenance, parking

:27:30.:27:31.

charges, putting new housing in totally inadequate space, and one

:27:32.:27:37.

example that my constituency has given me the quote from his letter,

:27:38.:27:44.

is over service charges. It is typical of the way Hyde work,

:27:45.:27:49.

completely non-transparent. Service charges for this coming year are

:27:50.:27:53.

based on estimates from so-called actual costs, but one which have

:27:54.:27:56.

never had so been sent to the residents. They have been sent out

:27:57.:28:01.

service charges for this year without having any real proof of how

:28:02.:28:04.

the service charges for last year where spent. -- where spent. This

:28:05.:28:11.

President has a long-standing discussions with Hyde, said Timmy

:28:12.:28:18.

that he requested that the account and receipt for the 2013, 2014

:28:19.:28:26.

period and this took over a year to finally arrive in October 2015

:28:27.:28:29.

before they were able to re-examine it. To this day, we still have

:28:30.:28:34.

issues with those that remain unresolved by Hyde. The 2014, 2015

:28:35.:28:44.

accounts, this took Hyde well over six Munster finally provide. After

:28:45.:28:48.

going through those, there were numerous issues which are incorrect

:28:49.:28:54.

and lots of invoices which were not there and not been identified by

:28:55.:29:01.

Hyde. After a number of exchanges, and he dealt with 17 different

:29:02.:29:08.

people in Hyde, they finally got a comprehensive spreadsheet detailing

:29:09.:29:12.

many issues referenced to the invoicing scheme?

:29:13.:29:23.

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