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similar issues in our constituencies and I know that right across | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
government officials and ministers are very sympathetic to these cases | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
and do try to expedite them as quickly as possible. SPEAKER: | :00:00. | :00:13. | |
Statement, the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, | :00:14. | :00:15. | |
secretary Karen Bradley. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I came to this House on | :00:16. | :00:22. | |
the 16th of March to confirm that I had issued a European intervention | :00:23. | :00:27. | |
notice in relation to the proposed merger between 21st-century fox and | :00:28. | :00:33. | |
Sky plc on the grounds of media plurality and commitment to | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
broadcasting standards. That triggered a requirement for Ofcom to | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
report, initially by the 16th of May but extended to the 20th of June on | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
the media public interest considerations and for the | :00:47. | :00:48. | |
Competition and Markets Authority, the CMA, one jurisdiction. I issued | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
a statement last week to confirm that I had received those reports | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
and undertook to both publish them today and to come to the House to | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
set out my minded to decision on the next step in this process, which is | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
whether or not to refer the merger to a fuller phase two investigation. | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
In line with my commitments I am today publishing both documents, | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
copies of which will also be deposited in the libraries of both | :01:16. | :01:18. | |
houses. I will also publish later today the letter to both parties | :01:19. | :01:24. | |
with my decision, which I sent to them this morning. Separately, Ofcom | :01:25. | :01:27. | |
is today publishing its fit and proper assessment of the merged | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
company. This reflects its ongoing responsibility as the independent | :01:34. | :01:35. | |
regulator under the broadcasting Acts to monitor who is fit and | :01:36. | :01:37. | |
proper to a broadcast license. Decisions made by the Secretary of | :01:38. | :01:48. | |
State under the enterprise act or made on a quasi judicial basis. I | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
want to be clear about what that means. When taking a quasi-judicial | :01:52. | :01:58. | |
basis -- decision, I am tightly bound. I must take my decision only | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
on the evidence that is relevant. My decision cannot be based on opinion, | :02:03. | :02:08. | |
speculation or conjecture. Any decision must be objectively | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
justified by the facts before me. I must set aside wider political | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
considerations, going beyond the scope of the legislation. I must act | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
independently and follow a process that is scrupulously and impartial. | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
This is what I am doing. On the question of whether the merger gives | :02:27. | :02:33. | |
rise to public interest concerns in relation to media plurality, Ofcom | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
concludes, the transaction raises public interest concerns as a result | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
of the risk of increased influence by members of the Murdoch family | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
trust over the UK news agenda and political process. With its unique | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
presence on radio, television, in print and online. We consider these | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
concerns may justify reference by the Secretary of State to the | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
Competition and Markets Authority. On the basis of Ofcom's assessment I | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
confirm I am minded to refer to a face to investigation on the grounds | :03:04. | :03:10. | |
of media plurality. The reasoning and evidence are persuasive. The | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
proposed entity would have the third largest total breach of any news | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
provider, lower the only than the BBC and ITV. It would span | :03:20. | :03:26. | |
television, radio, newspapers and online. Ofcom's report says that it | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
would give the Murdoch family trust material evidence over news | :03:32. | :03:37. | |
providers. This potentially raises public interest concerns because in | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
Ofcom's view, the transaction may increase members of the Murdoch | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
family trust's ability to influence the overall news agenda and the | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
ability to influence the political process, and it may also result in | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
the perception of increased influence. These are clear grounds | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
were by referral to a phrase two investigation are warranted. There | :03:59. | :04:05. | |
is however a statutory process I must follow. I required by | :04:06. | :04:08. | |
legislation to allow the parties the opportunity to make representations | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
to me on this position before I reach a decision. I will now do that | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
and have given them until Friday the 14th of July to respond. The second | :04:17. | :04:23. | |
question concerns whether, after the merger, the relevant media | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
enterprises would have a genuine commitment to broadcasting | :04:27. | :04:34. | |
standards. Ofcom concludes that, in light of Fox's and Sky's business | :04:35. | :04:44. | |
records, we do not consider that the merged entity would like a genuine | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
commitment to the attainment of broadcasting standards. Therefore we | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
consider there are no broadcasting standards concerns that may justify | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
a reference by the Secretary of State to become additional markets | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
authority. Ofcom's approach sought to measure commitment to | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
broadcasting standards by reference to breaches of regulatory codes. It | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
found that Fox's compliance with the UK's compliance code is in line with | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
comparable broadcasters. North of their compliance record in relation | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
to overseas jurisdictions give cause for concern. -- nor did the. I also | :05:21. | :05:29. | |
asked Ofcom to consider any effect of corporate governors on this | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
consideration. Ofcom did this in respect of its secondary | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
consideration of whether Fox and Sky would be fit to hold broadcast | :05:39. | :05:47. | |
license -- licenses. It held that -- these did not in its views | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
demonstrate that the merged company would like a genuine commitment to | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
broadcasting standards. In reaching a view, I have to be guided only by | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
the evidence before me. As such, based on the Ofcom report, I am | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
currently minded not to refer to a phase two investigation in relation | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
to a general commitment to broadcasting standards. I am giving | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
the parties and opportunities -- over Shittu to make representatives | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
in relation to media plurality grounds. In the interest of | :06:18. | :06:25. | |
transparency, I will also invite wider representations on the | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
question is to represent -- broadcasting standards. Parties | :06:31. | :06:36. | |
responding to the consultation should not simply duplicate any | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
representations previously made to Ofcom. Instead, responses should be | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
limited to setting out any new and substantial evidence and any comment | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
to Ofcom's overall approach. Rather a strong feelings among supporters | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
and opponents of this merger, in this quasi judicial approach, I can | :06:56. | :07:07. | |
only be guided by evidence, and not by who shouts loudest. Under the | :07:08. | :07:14. | |
process set out in the enterprise act, it is open to the parties to | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
propose undertakings in view of a reference to the CMA for a more | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
detailed investigation, in other words the parties May seek to avoid | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
a phase two reference by proposing remedies to address the public | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
interest concerns that have been identified. The decision as to | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
whether or not to accept undertaking is for the Secretary of State alone, | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
however, the parties proposed a set of undertakings to Ofcom and Ofcom | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
commented on them. Proposed undertakings centred around Fox | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
maintaining the editorial independence of Sky News. And any | :07:51. | :07:58. | |
changes to Sky News editorial guidelines. The only -- also include | :07:59. | :08:05. | |
a commitment to maintain Sky branded news for five years with spending | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
similar levels to now. Ofcom's view were -- was that these measures | :08:10. | :08:16. | |
would mitigate plurality concerns. They also suggested the remedies | :08:17. | :08:19. | |
could be further strengthened. The parties last week without prejudice | :08:20. | :08:25. | |
to my decision today formally submitted undertakings in largely | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
the same terms to me. In accordance with the legislation, if I still | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
intend to refer the merger after considering representations from the | :08:35. | :08:36. | |
party, I required to consider whether or not these bodies are | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
appropriate. Given the parties have offered these undertakings and Ofcom | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
have commented, I have taken an initial view, and I have today | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
written to the parties indicated that I am minded not to accept the | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
undertakings that have been offered. While Ofcom suggests they may | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
mitigate its concerns, it is for the Secretary of | :08:57. | :09:07. | |
State to decide whether or not this efficiently mitigate awfully remedy | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
what are serious public interest considerations. I know that Ofcom's | :09:12. | :09:13. | |
report says we recognise that behavioural undertakings can be | :09:14. | :09:15. | |
difficult to monitor, and that there are areas where the proposed | :09:16. | :09:16. | |
undertakings could be strengthened. It cites questions regarding the | :09:17. | :09:19. | |
ongoing arrangements for the appointment of independent members | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
of the Sky News editorial board, and the period of Fox's commitment to | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
maintaining its investment in Sky News. I also note the guidance of | :09:28. | :09:37. | |
the markets authority, which says that in ordinary Kim -- cases it is | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
highly unlikely to accept behavioural limitations -- remedies | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
that phase one. I have given the parties ten working days to make | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
representations on the decisions I have reached. If I receive further | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
offers of undertakings, I will keep the House informed on how I intend | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
to structure the statutory process must follow considering them. As I | :10:02. | :10:07. | |
have set out, I will now take representations on my positions. The | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
call will remain open for ten working days, and they will then | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
consider the evidence received before coming to a final decision on | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
both grounds. To be clear, the minded to decisions are not my final | :10:20. | :10:27. | |
decisions. A word before I close. As the independent regulator, Ofcom's | :10:28. | :10:34. | |
fit and proper -- I have seen the report and no many members will want | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
to comment on it. However, given my current role and the merger, I will | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
not be commenting on its findings. It is rightly not for Government to | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
determine who should and should not hold TV broadcasting licences. Ofcom | :10:48. | :10:55. | |
has an ongoing duty to ensure all organisations are fit and proper to | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
hold broadcasting licences. If evidence -- in the evidence comes to | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
light, it is Ofcom's it is for Ofcom to consider it. I trust this | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
statement gives an option to do to debate this position well at the | :11:10. | :11:11. | |
same time respecting the limits of what I can say given my ongoing | :11:12. | :11:17. | |
quasi judicial role. I commend this statement to the House. I thank the | :11:18. | :11:26. | |
Secretary of State for her statement, albeit in redacted form, | :11:27. | :11:33. | |
which is utterly ridiculous. This decision was delayed as a result of | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
the unexpected General Election campaign. I help the party opposite | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
found those weeks as productive as we did on this side of the House, | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
but nothing about this decision is a surprise. It is the old playbook, | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
the Secretary of State has known all along what wants to end up doing, | :11:53. | :11:59. | |
but she has two establish -- follow the established dance steps. So let | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
me make a prediction. The parties have proposed some pretty minor | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
undertakings in you. They always knew they were not going to be | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
enough to satisfy Ofcom, so the Secretary of State will demand extra | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
conditions, as a result of which she will get written up as a tough | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
operator. The parties will offer something new which they always had | :12:21. | :12:23. | |
in their back pocket, the Secretary of State will accept them, and this | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
merger will go ahead. Well, let me tell the Secretary of State the | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
problem with Murdoch's undertakings. Not just these undertakings, but any | :12:35. | :12:43. | |
undertakings in lieu which have never been undertaken -- offered by | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
the Murdoch family. Ask Harold Evans or James Harding about the | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
guarantees of a -- editorial or independence. Can the Secretary of | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
State name any undertakings in lieu that the Murdoch family have ever | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
made that have been respected? And if the current rules mean that James | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
Murdoch can't pass a fit and proper test, given everything we know about | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
his behaviour over phone hacking, and given everything we know about | :13:14. | :13:20. | |
Fox's behaviour over the ongoing sexual harassment scandal and the | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
United States, that says more about the rules than about Mr Murdoch. -- | :13:24. | :13:30. | |
can pass a fit and proper test. If the current Conservative Government | :13:31. | :13:37. | |
will not risk -- rewrite the rules, the next Labour Government will. | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
This company has been found guilty of significant corporate failure, | :13:43. | :13:45. | |
and yet this bid process can go ahead. In fact over the next 12 | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
months the Labour Party will be reviewing media ownership rules in | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
the UK, and let me put the media barons on notice. The days when | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
citizens of other countries can dominate our media markets while | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
paying their taxes overseas have got to end. The truth is, the world is | :14:03. | :14:08. | |
changing. And it is time the Conservative Party realised it. We | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
have seen what looks like an implicit bargain between the | :14:14. | :14:16. | |
Conservative Party and the Murdoch Empire over recent years, the | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
Conservatives will give Murdoch what he wanted, the Sky deal, and Murdoch | :14:21. | :14:29. | |
would deliver Theresa May the landslide victory she craved. Well, | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
it hasn't quite worked out that way, has eight? Rupert Murdoch has not | :14:34. | :14:40. | |
delivered his side of the bargain, has he? His papers may have done | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
their best to urge a Tory landslide, but he couldn't follow through. He | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
is not what he was. It wasn't the sun that one it. The Sun told | :14:52. | :15:00. | |
Britain, don't chuck Britain in the bin. But Britain and chucked the | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
Tory manifesto in the bin instead. -- chuck Britain in the Corbyn. | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
Murdoch wasn't any use to the Tories. They do not need to be any | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
use to him any more. And if I was speaking to the Minister outside the | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
chamber I would say to her, at long last, you are free. You can do the | :15:21. | :15:26. | |
right thing. And one way of signalling that freedom would be to | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
go ahead and order parte two of the liver some inquiry. Notwithstanding | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
Ofcom's fit and proper investment, the only way to get to the bottom of | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
corporate governance issues is that the Secretary of State should hold | :15:43. | :15:49. | |
parte two of the inquiry. She doesn't have a mandate to drop | :15:50. | :16:00. | |
Leveson two. Does the Secretary of State worry that given this autumn | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
James Murdoch is facing a civil trial in the High Court over new | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
allegations of hacking, and the destruction of evidence summary: | :16:11. | :16:13. | |
does she think she might come out of this process with egg all over her | :16:14. | :16:19. | |
face? How can this process possibly proceed, with these cases hanging | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
over them? Before she makes her final decision, can she guaranteed | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
to let the House now what the Prime Minister discussed with Rupert | :16:30. | :16:32. | |
Murdoch at their private meeting in New York last year? | :16:33. | :16:39. | |
Mr Speaker. I am disappointed at the honourable gentleman. I have come | :16:40. | :16:47. | |
here to be fair and proper in a quasi judicial process and he is | :16:48. | :16:50. | |
choosing to make it party political and that is a shame. It is very | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
cynical of him. You should judge me on my record. Throughout this whole | :16:55. | :16:57. | |
process I have been scrupulously fair and I have looked at the | :16:58. | :17:00. | |
evidence and analysis available to me. He should not prejudge any | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
decisions that I take. I will take them on the basis of the evidence | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
and analysis given to me and that icy and I will make an appropriate | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
judgment based on that evidence. Hope that he will give me credit for | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
the fact that so far I have done that and will continue to do that. | :17:20. | :17:27. | |
Mr John Whittingdale. Me I commend my Right Honourable | :17:28. | :17:29. | |
friend on the scrupulous way in which she is both following the | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
advice that she has been given and also giving the maximum opportunity | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
for interested parties to comment at each stage. Would she also agree | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
that the only thing on which the opposition spokesman was correct was | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
in saying that when it comes to plurality it is becoming | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
increasingly obvious, and the general election bears this out, | :17:53. | :17:55. | |
that the printed press are a waning influence and the real media giants | :17:56. | :18:02. | |
today are companies like Google and social media giants? My Right | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
Honourable friend who has significant experience in this area | :18:08. | :18:09. | |
and a great track record is absolutely right that we did see, | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
particularly during the general election, the power and influence of | :18:14. | :18:16. | |
social media companies, who simply do not have to abide by the same | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
rules of impartiality, fairness and checking sources that the mainstream | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
media do. I thank him for his comments about the approach I have | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
taken to this merger. Whatever final decision I will take, I will take it | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
on the basis of the evidence. I want to make sure that we are as | :18:36. | :18:38. | |
transparent as possible because there is great public interest in | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
this issue and I want to make sure whatever final decision I take it is | :18:43. | :18:48. | |
understood by the public and respected. Brendan O'Hara. I thank | :18:49. | :18:51. | |
the Secretary of State for the prior sight of her statement. Ofcom has | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
serious concerns about the further concentration of media ownership in | :18:58. | :19:00. | |
fewer and fewer hands and we welcome the fact she is minded to refer this | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
to the Competition and Markets Authority on the grounds of | :19:06. | :19:08. | |
diminishing plurality. In doing so she will bolster public confidence | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
that recognising plurality and diversity are vital components of an | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
independent media. In her statement she said that the guarantee she | :19:18. | :19:25. | |
received from Fox that it does not go far enough. Should she outlined | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
what it is she looking for from Fox to guarantee that independence of | :19:30. | :19:38. | |
editorial standards? Issue satisfied the current arrangements,... | :19:39. | :19:52. | |
Mr Speaker, if I can take the latter comment about the fit and proper | :19:53. | :20:03. | |
person test, I think it would be extraordinary to be in a situation | :20:04. | :20:05. | |
where it was government ministers who had any form of say over who | :20:06. | :20:12. | |
held a broadcasting licence. I think it is absolutely right that is with | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
Ofcom and if he has questions about the Ofcom process and Ofcom report | :20:17. | :20:19. | |
when he sees it then he should address those questions to Ofcom in | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
order that they can give him that comfort that he needs. He asks what | :20:24. | :20:30. | |
it is I'm looking for when it comes to undertakings. Again, it is not | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
for me to prejudge that. I have set out today that I give all parties | :20:36. | :20:38. | |
ten working days to come forward. That is, interested bodies who was | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
do not wish to make further presentations on broadcasting | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
standards and media plurality, and the parties themselves on the matter | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
of further undertakings they may wish to make or other matters on my | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
mind it too decisions and at that point I will make a decision. Damian | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
Collins. In terms of media plurality what | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
consideration has been given as the member for moulding raises, to the | :21:04. | :21:06. | |
world in which we live today were increasingly people get news on | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
Facebook, and in the future of the television market, the merger of two | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
companies, being dominated by the financial power and influence of | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
companies like Netflix and Amazon? Mr Speaker, my honourable friend | :21:20. | :21:22. | |
will see the Ofcom report which should have been published now and | :21:23. | :21:25. | |
will see the consideration taken. One of the points of note is that in | :21:26. | :21:33. | |
terms of the Fox - Sky merger, the concern was this is a media company | :21:34. | :21:36. | |
that has positions on both broadcast, radio, newsprint, and | :21:37. | :21:42. | |
online, which is unique compared to other media organisations. He's | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
right that we are in an ever changing media landscape and one | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
that we need to be cognisant of when looking at how to ensure that the | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
public receives a wide and diverse range of accurate and fair news. Ed | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
Miliband. Can I start by welcoming the fact the Ofcom report says they | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
should be a referral to the CMA on the grounds of plurality and urge | :22:08. | :22:10. | |
the Secretary of State is not to do a grubby deal with the Murdochs. We | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
know their history, as my Right Honourable friend on the front bench | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
says, they break every undertaking they make to the Times to the Wall | :22:20. | :22:26. | |
Street Journal. About broadcasting standards, what does it take to be | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
declared on fit and proper to hold a broadcast license? Ofcom have | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
apparently found a second significant corporate failure on the | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
part of the Murdochs. In terms of her responsibilities in terms of | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
broadcast standards, we have an entity found responsible for this | :22:45. | :22:47. | |
second huge corporate failure at Fox News after News International. | :22:48. | :22:58. | |
Regarding the fit and proper person is test I would ask him to put those | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
concerns to Ofcom, they have the independent role. He will see their | :23:04. | :23:10. | |
report later today. It ill behoves him to use the term grubby when it | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
comes to the work that we will do. If undertakings are given, and if as | :23:16. | :23:18. | |
a result of those undertakings I am minded to consider them, there will | :23:19. | :23:24. | |
be a full statutory public consultation on those undertakings | :23:25. | :23:26. | |
so that we can be as transparent as possible, so that they can be no | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
allegations of anything being grubby at all. I'm glad that the Secretary | :23:32. | :23:40. | |
of State has pointed to the need to make decisions on the basis of | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
evidence. She will be aware that there was a long e-mail campaign of | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
rather emotional e-mails on this. What role have they played in her | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
thinking and how will that help to retain public confidence. I thank my | :23:55. | :24:02. | |
honourable friend for the comments. The petitions and campaigns that he | :24:03. | :24:04. | |
refers to have been considered as part of Ofcom's work. He will see in | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
the report Ofcom have considered over 51,000 responses as part of | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
their work. He is right that in my role, the quasi judicial role, I'm | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
obliged to look at the evidence and analysis before me. I have made the | :24:20. | :24:22. | |
comments in my statement that shouting the loudest is not | :24:23. | :24:25. | |
necessarily the way to get the result of one wants. We are looking | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
for evidence and we are looking for new substantive evidence that may | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
make a change to this decision. Sir Vince Cable. | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
Is it not the case that the Internet companies which have been referred | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
to, are essentially aggregators of news rather than independent | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
providers? A company that is the leading supplier of newspaper | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
content, the second leading supplier of radio content, and the third | :24:52. | :24:58. | |
largest provider of content is a threat to plurality? Mr Speaker, can | :24:59. | :25:06. | |
I welcome the Right Honourable gentleman back to this House. He is | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
right that there is much of the Internet news that we see which is | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
content which has been previously written and owned by other | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
providers, and he is right in his assessment of that. But in terms of | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
the comments on media plurality, that is why I am minded to refer to | :25:25. | :25:31. | |
a Phase inquiry. On the subject of phone hacking I would like to remind | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
the House it wasn't just the News of the World that was guilty. The | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
Mirror newspaper was found guilty of hacking. Back to the subject of | :25:41. | :25:46. | |
evidence, and following on from the point my honourable friend full | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
Hendley made, she will mow that there have been a number of | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
identical e-mails from organisations -- Henley. Quite properly like 38 | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
Deg. From her statement she drew the difference between evidence and | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
perception. Is it's not evidence which is now required? My honourable | :26:07. | :26:15. | |
friend is right. It is evidence. I am sure there will be more e-mail | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
campaigns. I can assure my honourable friend that my inbox is | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
full completely to bursting of identical responses from around the | :26:24. | :26:30. | |
world. But emotional perception is not evidence. What we need is | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
evidence in order to enable us to make a decision in a quasi judicial | :26:36. | :26:42. | |
way. Ben Bradshaw. She asks us to judge her on her record which I will | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
happily do. When will she keep the promises made to the victims after | :26:47. | :26:53. | |
the Leveson Inquiry? Both announce Leveson two and and Section 40 of | :26:54. | :26:56. | |
the crime and Courts act, which disgracefully was passed almost | :26:57. | :26:59. | |
unanimously by both houses and has to not been implement it by the | :27:00. | :27:05. | |
government? Mr Speaker, we have had a consultation on what should be the | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
next steps with regard to the second part of the Leveson Inquiry and | :27:10. | :27:16. | |
Section 40. I will be publishing the responses to that consultation. | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
There is a process that I need to go through as Secretary of State in | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
order to take anything further. I think we need to remember that the | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
Leveson Inquiry was 2011. Many things have happened, many things | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
have changed in that time. We also have to think about how best we | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
support local press and have a free, fair and vibrant local press. I will | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
be looking at all of those points when considering responses to the | :27:42. | :27:48. | |
consultation. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thank the Secretary of State for | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
her statement and fully recognise her quasi judicial role. During the | :27:53. | :27:54. | |
election campaign on the doorsteps constituents raised with me there | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
concerns about bias across various media and online platforms. The | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
concern about value for money and about plurality. Easy for me to say! | :28:04. | :28:11. | |
meanwhile, agree that this referral meanwhile, agree that this referral | :28:12. | :28:14. | |
will give the public confidence when it comes to this and what they are | :28:15. | :28:21. | |
actually taking out of the media or is it purely conjecture? I thank my | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
honourable friend and I had a similar conversations on the | :28:26. | :28:27. | |
doorstep in my constituency and other parts of the country. That's | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
why it is important there is full public confidence and we have a | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
transparent process the public can have confidence in. If she had sat | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
in the High Court day after day as I had to do as a victim of phone | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
hacking she would have heard endless examples and evidence, yes, real | :28:45. | :28:47. | |
evidence heard in court before a judge, of the corruption that the | :28:48. | :28:56. | |
Murdochs perpetuated deliberately in the British political system. The | :28:57. | :28:59. | |
truth of the matter is you cannot possibly now make a proper final | :29:00. | :29:01. | |
judgment on whether the Murdochs are proper people to have any broadcast | :29:02. | :29:03. | |
license in this country unless you hear more evidence in court in | :29:04. | :29:10. | |
Leveson two. Mr Speaker, the point is that that evidence was heard in | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
court and Ofcom have looked at that evidence as part of all the work | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
they have been doing and I suggest he takes his points about fit and | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
proper person with Ofcom. Mr Peter Bone. Can I thank the excellent | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
Secretary of State for coming to the House and making such a clear | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
statement. One of the things that seemed to me in the statement was | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
14th July cropped up as the date when responses could be given. We | :29:38. | :29:44. | |
are going to be going into recess shortly after that date. Can the | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
Secretary of State assure us we will not have a final decision while the | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
House is not sitting? Can I just add to one thing one of my honourable | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
friend said, that on the doorstep media bias came up a lot but I'm | :29:59. | :30:03. | |
afraid it was media bias by the BBC. They suggested to me that they | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
should be called the Brussels broadcasting Corporation. | :30:09. | :30:16. | |
Mr Speaker, I am acutely aware of the Parliamentary timetable force on | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
the 14th of July, I hope, will enable me to have time from that | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
date to before the House rises to come back to the House with any | :30:25. | :30:30. | |
further updates. But I will endeavour, as I have throughout this | :30:31. | :30:33. | |
process, to ensure that the House is updated before anybody else. Hannah | :30:34. | :30:40. | |
Bardell. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Sky Television is the largest employer | :30:41. | :30:46. | |
in my Livingston constituency, so can I ask the Honourable Lady that | :30:47. | :30:48. | |
she make sure in any considerations she make sure in any considerations | :30:49. | :30:51. | |
and discussions she has, that the workers of both organisations and | :30:52. | :30:54. | |
their jobs are given full and proper consideration? And further to that, | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
as my honourable friend tried to elicit from her, she seems to know | :31:00. | :31:01. | |
what isn't good enough for the process, but surely she must know | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
what will be good enough. Surely that should be written down, | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
published and will be evidence presented and put forward so we can | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
have confidence in the process. I do of course recognise the issue with | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
regard to people working for the organisations and employees and we | :31:19. | :31:21. | |
need to be mindful of that. That is why in many ways it's important that | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
decisions are taken in as prompt a time as possible in order that | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
uncertainty does not persist and pervade. But it would not be right | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
for me to in any way try and set out today what I think would be | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
appropriate or not. It is for the parties to come forward with their | :31:41. | :31:43. | |
representations and for me to make a decision as to whether I think they | :31:44. | :31:46. | |
are appropriate to stop they phased two referral. | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
Is the Minister aware of her total failure to see the link between on | :31:51. | :32:01. | |
the one hand a fit and proper test, and on the other hand regular | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
arrangements with them that might lead to some reduction in the | :32:06. | :32:14. | |
influence of market share? Unless they are fit and proper, they will | :32:15. | :32:21. | |
never meet those regulations. We know the first is not there, why the | :32:22. | :32:28. | |
second? In the process for the media merger, I have a responsibility, if | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
quasi-judicial role, to ensure that the public interest test of the | :32:35. | :32:40. | |
enterprise act 2002 are fully met, and that media plurality, which is | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
the question he raised, is dealt with. That is an ongoing test for | :32:45. | :32:51. | |
the independent regulator, Ofcom, and I would suggest he refers those | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
comments to them. As to commitment to broadcasting standards, many of | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
the same issues are considered as are considered for the fit and | :33:01. | :33:03. | |
proper persons test, and he will see in the report exactly what Ofcom | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
say. If he has further substantive comments to make, I suggest he makes | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
them as part of that process. I thank the Secretary of State for her | :33:15. | :33:20. | |
statement. I am sure she will be reflecting on contrasting the | :33:21. | :33:22. | |
broadcasting regulations with what exists online, and a huge impact | :33:23. | :33:33. | |
that has. Even a hypothetical Fox news UK would have to be very | :33:34. | :33:40. | |
different to its US sibling. Any broadcaster in the United Kingdom | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
has to comply with the broadcasting codes, has to meet our tests of | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
impartiality, has to meet our tests of credibility and fair reporting, | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
and that may be very different from the tests employed -- applied in | :33:56. | :34:01. | |
other countries. While we welcome the Secretary of State is minded to | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
refer the proposed acquisition for fuller investigation by the CMA, and | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
we are pleased the statement does recognise the danger of too much | :34:12. | :34:18. | |
power -- media power in the hands of too many individuals, we would ask | :34:19. | :34:21. | |
her if in light of her previous references to failures of corporate | :34:22. | :34:26. | |
Government -- governance, in reference to phone hacking, is she | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
now believes a CMA inquiry will go far enough to tackle wholesale the | :34:31. | :34:37. | |
problems at Sky? I welcome the honourable lady to hear. -- to this | :34:38. | :34:45. | |
place. I am obliged under the process to comply with the terms of | :34:46. | :34:51. | |
the enterprise act 2002, and I am following those processes | :34:52. | :34:58. | |
scrupulously. In terms of broadcasting standards, does she | :34:59. | :35:06. | |
recall the anger over the Fox news broadcaster claimed that birds -- | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
Birmingham is a city where Muslims simply cannot go? If she approves | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
this merger, what assurance can she give us that she can event that kind | :35:17. | :35:23. | |
of offensive knowledge -- nonsense being allowed on a Sky News | :35:24. | :35:30. | |
broadcast in this country? Any broadcaster in the UK has to comply | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
with broadcasting codes. And those codes are different to those in | :35:35. | :35:44. | |
other countries. I welcome the Minister's statement. The merger | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
test busby fit and proper, there are many concerns that this fit -- there | :35:49. | :35:51. | |
are doubts that the new service will be impartial. Is it right that one | :35:52. | :35:57. | |
body controls so much of the media outlet, too much control in the | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
hands of too few is surely a danger? And that is why I am minded to refer | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
to a face two inquiry to ensure that we do have full confidence in | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
whatever decision I finally take. -- a phase two inquiry. In coming to | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
its view on their commitment to broadcasting standards, did Ofcom | :36:21. | :36:23. | |
take account of the new civil case in which the judge, on phone | :36:24. | :36:29. | |
hacking, has required James Murdoch to surrender his personal laptop? I | :36:30. | :36:36. | |
would have to ask the honourable lady to wait for the Ofcom report | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
and to look at that, but I would remind her that the duty on Ofcom on | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
fit and proper person is an ongoing duty, Iniesta because of the | :36:47. | :36:49. | |
reviewed and reflected upon, and that is for Ofcom to do. -- it needs | :36:50. | :37:00. | |
to be reviewed. Union-macro our predecessors determined that the | :37:01. | :37:03. | |
broadcasters should have a duty of balance in our news, as a result of | :37:04. | :37:12. | |
which we trust the broadcasters to a greater or lesser extent than the | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
press which carried out a campaign of character assassination on the | :37:17. | :37:23. | |
leader of my party in the election. And rightly, the views of the BBC | :37:24. | :37:31. | |
trusted the truth rather than the propaganda. But don't we have -- | :37:32. | :37:37. | |
aren't we in a world where fake news is a real danger, and activities | :37:38. | :37:43. | |
that are invisible and outside the nature of all the controls we have?. | :37:44. | :37:50. | |
We need a new charter for all news? -- do we not need? We announced in | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
the Queen's Speech that we are looking to construct a digital | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
charter which will look at the way that people access information off | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
the Internet. And he right, I think we were all victims in this House of | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
what appeared to be an echo chamber of people who would put something | :38:11. | :38:16. | |
completely vile and false on social media, and it was reinforced and | :38:17. | :38:19. | |
repeated time and time again, that is simply not acceptable, it is | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
something I have raised with the social media companies and will | :38:24. | :38:30. | |
continue to do so. The Conservative Party has blocked never said two. | :38:31. | :38:38. | |
How can we respect the quasi-judicial role of the Secretary | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
of State when she is closing of the hearing of additional evidence that | :38:43. | :38:45. | |
was promised by the Prime Minister David Cameron would be heard to the | :38:46. | :38:52. | |
victims of phone hacking? -- the Conservative Party has blocked | :38:53. | :38:58. | |
Leveson two. These are different matters, and I am bound by the | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
evidence before me. I'm sure the Secretary of State sees through some | :39:03. | :39:08. | |
of the humbug on the Labour benches concerning the former leader who | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
warmed the bed of the media mogul who became the godparent to James | :39:12. | :39:23. | |
Murdoch's stepsister. But can I congratulate the Minister for the | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
way she has conducted herself today, in the handling of this report? And | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
look forward to being able to make representations. What MPs be able to | :39:32. | :39:34. | |
meet her personally or will we have to write to her to make their case? | :39:35. | :39:43. | |
-- will they be able to. I am happy to meet members, but can recommend | :39:44. | :39:52. | |
he makes requests through the official line. Before they come to | :39:53. | :39:53. | |
points | :39:54. | :39:54. |