Browse content similar to 10/07/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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encourage our prime contractors to see where they can use British Steel | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
and I am sure in due course he will be pleased to see progress. | :00:00. | :00:11. | |
Statement, the Prime Minister. With permission, I would like to make a | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
statement on the G20 in Hamburg. At this summit we showed how a global | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
Britain can play a key role in shaping international responses to | :00:21. | :00:23. | |
some of the biggest challenges of our time. On terrorism, trade, | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
climate change, international develop and, migration, modern | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
slavery and women's economic empowerment, we made leading | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
contributions on issues that critically affect our national | :00:35. | :00:37. | |
interest but which can only be addressed by working together with | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
our international partners. First on terrorism, as we have seen with the | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
horrific attacks in Manchester and London, the nature of the threat we | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
face is evolving and our response must evolve to meet it. The UK is | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
leading the way. At the G-7 and subsequently through a detailed | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
action plan with President Macron, I called for industry take | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
responsibility to more rapidly detect and report extremist content | :01:04. | :01:06. | |
online and industry has now announced the launch of a global | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
Forum to do just that. At this summit we set the agenda again. We | :01:11. | :01:18. | |
called on allergy 20 partners to squeeze the life blood of terrorist | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
networks by making the global financial system and entirely | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
hostile system for terrorists. And we secured agreement on all | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
proposals. We agreed to work together to ensure there are no safe | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
spaces for terrorist financing by increasing capacity building and | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
raising standards worldwide especially in terrorist finance | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
hotspots will stop we agree to bring industry and law enforcement | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
together to develop new tools and technologies to better identify | :01:49. | :01:50. | |
suspicious small flows of money being used low-cost terrorist | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
attacks such as those we have seen in the UK. And just as interior | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
ministers are following up on the online agenda, so finance ministers | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
will follow through on these T20 commitments to cut off the funding | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
that throws a terrorist threats we face. I also called for the G 22 | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
come together to better management arrest throws for foreign fighters | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
as exposed in France were Syria and Iraq and we agreed we would work to | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
improve international information sharing the movement of individuals | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
known to have travelled to and from Dyche territory. By working together | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
in these ways we can defeat the terrorist threat and ensure our way | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
of life will always prevail. Turning to the global economy, we are seeing | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
encouraging signs of recovery with the IMF forecasting the will rise by | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
3.5% this year. But many both here and the UK and across the UK are not | :02:46. | :02:52. | |
sharing in the benefits. We need to build a global economy that works | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
for everyone be ensuring trade is not just free but also crucially | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
fair for all. That means fair people in the UK, which is why we are | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
forging a modern industrial strategy that will help to bring the benefits | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
of trade to every part of the country. It means fair terms of | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
trade for the poorest countries which is why we will protect their | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
trade preferences as we leave the EU, and in time explore options to | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
improve their trade access. And it means strengthening the | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
international rules that make trade fair between countries. At this | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
summit I argued that we must reform the international trading system | :03:30. | :03:31. | |
especially the World Trade Organisation given its central role | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
so that it keeps pace with developments in key sectors like | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
digital and services and so it is better able to resolve disputes. | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
Some countries are not playing by the rules. They are not behaving | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
responsibly and are creating risks to the global trading system. | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
Nowhere is this more clear than in relation to the dumping of steel on | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
global markets. The urgent need to react to remove excess capacity was | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
recognised last year at the G20's but not enough has been done since. | :04:00. | :04:07. | |
If we are to avoid unilateral action we need immediate collective action. | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
We agreed that the global Forum established last year needs to be | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
more effective and the pace of its work must quicken. In order to | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
ensure its work gets the necessary attention and there is a senior | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
accountability, I have pressed for aggressive ministers to meet around | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
the world. The UK will play a leading role in championing these | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
reforms so that all citizens can share in the benefits of global | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
growth. As we leave the EU, we will negotiate a new comprehensive bold | :04:38. | :04:39. | |
and ambitious free trade agreement with the EU. | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
LAUGHTER Yes. But we will also sees the | :04:45. | :04:51. | |
exciting opportunities to strike deals with old friends and new | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
partners. And that this summit I hold a number of meetings with other | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
world leaders, all of whom made clear their strong desire to form | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
ambitious new bilateral trading relationships after Brexit. This | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
included America, Japan, China and India. This morning I welcomed | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
Australian Prime Minister to handle to Downing Street where he also | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
reiterated his desire for a bold new trading relationship. All these | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
discussions are a clear and powerful vote of confidence in British goods, | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
services, economy and the British people. I look forward to building | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
on them in the months ahead. On climate change, the UK reaffirmed | :05:35. | :05:37. | |
our commitment to the Paris agreement which is vital if we are | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
to take responsibility for the world we pass on to our children and | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
grandchildren. There is not a choice between decarbonisation and economic | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
growth as the UK's own experience shows. We have reduced emissions by | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
around 40% over the last 16 years, but growing GDP by almost two | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
thirds. I am my counterparts at the G20 are dismayed at America's | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
withdrawal from the agreement. I spoke personally to President Trump | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
to encourage him to rejoin the Paris agreement and I continue to hope | :06:09. | :06:16. | |
that is exactly what he will do. On international development, we | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
reaffirmed our commitment to spend 0.7% of gross national income and an | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
element assistance and we set out plans for a new long-term approach | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
to reduce Africa's relies on aid. This includes focusing on supporting | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
asp and aspirations of trade and growth, creating millions of new | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
jobs and harnessing the power of capital markets to generate | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
trillions of new investment. We welcomed Germany's new compact with | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
Africa which reflects those bristles. On migration, I expressed | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
the UK continued support for the scale of the challenge facing Italy | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
and agreed with the Prime Minister that a UK expert Home Office | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
delegation will travel to Italy to see how we can help further. This is | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
yet further evidence that while we are leaving the EU, as a global | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
Britain we will continue to work closely with all our EU partners. | :07:04. | :07:10. | |
Did you 20 also agreed to use the upcoming negotiations on the UN | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
global compact is to seek the conference of approach that the UK | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
has been arguing for. This includes ensuring refugees claim asylum in | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
the first safe country they reach, Inc proving the way we distinguish | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
between refugees and economic migrants, and developing a better | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
overall approach to managing economic migration. It is so | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
includes providing humanitarian and vegetarian assistance. We committed | :07:34. | :07:41. | |
?55 million to support the Government of Tanzania in managing | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
its refugee and migrant policies and to support the further integration | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
of new naturalise refugees. Turning to modern slavery, it is hard to | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
comprehend that in today's modern world, innocent people are being | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
enslaved, forced to do hard labour. Raped, beaten and passed from abuse | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
to abuse for profit. We cannot it and will not ignore this dark and | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
barbaric trade in human beings that is simply horrifying in its | :08:12. | :08:14. | |
inhumanity. That is why I put this in shoe on the G20 agenda at my | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
first summit a year ago, and at this I pushed for a global and | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
coordinated approach to the complex business supply chains which can | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
feed the demand for forced labour and child labour. Our | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
ground-breaking UK modern slavery and it requires companies to examine | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
all aspects of their businesses including their supply chains and to | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
publish their results. I called IgE 20 partners to follow Britain's | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
lead. And I welcomed Germany's proposed vision zero fund to which | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
the UK is contributing as an important part of ensuring the | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
health and safety of workers in global supply chains. Finally, we | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
agreed to create better job of reduced the women, remove the legal | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
barriers and end discrimination and gender-based violence that restrict | :09:03. | :09:05. | |
opportunities at home and abroad, and as part of this the UK is | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
contributing to the women entrepreneurs finance initiative | :09:11. | :09:12. | |
launched by the World Bank which will provide more than $1 billion to | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
support women in developing countries to start agribusinesses. | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
This is not just Molly really right it is economically essential and the | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
UK will continue to play a leading role in driving forward women's | :09:25. | :09:26. | |
economic empowerment across the world. Of course we did not agree on | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
everything at the summit, in particular climate change. But when | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
we have such disagreements it is only more important that we come | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
together in forums such as the G20 to try to resolve them. And as a | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
global Britain we will continue to work at bridging differences between | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
nations and forging global responses to issues that are fundamental to | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
our prosperity and security and that of our allies around the world. That | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
is what we did at this summit, that is what the Government will continue | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
to do and I commend this statement to the house. | :09:59. | :10:05. | |
Jeremy Corbyn. Thank you Mr Speaker and I thank the Prime Minister for | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
the advance copy of the statement. I am surprised she had so much to | :10:12. | :10:14. | |
contribute to the G20 given that there was barely a mention of | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
international policy and her party 's election manifesto. Or any policy | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
so much so that the government is now apparently asking other parties | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
for their policy ideas. So if the Prime Minister would like it am | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
happy to finish with a copy of our election manifesto. Or better still | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
an early election so that the people of this country can decide! Lets | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
face it Mr Speaker the government has run out of steam out of the | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
pivotal moment in our country and the world amid uncertainty of | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
Brexit, conflict in the Gulf states, nuclear sabre rattling over North | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
Korea, refugees continue to flee war and discretion, ongoing pandemics, | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
cross-border terrorism, poverty, inequality and the impact of climate | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
change are the core global challenges of our time. When we need | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
strong government we have weakness from this government. The US | :11:07. | :11:13. | |
president attempts to pull the plug on the climate change deal. And only | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
Mr Speaker a belated informal mention and brief meeting with him. | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
No ability to sign a joint letter from European leaders at the time he | :11:23. | :11:29. | |
made the announcement. The UK's trade deficit, Mr Speaker, is | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
growing at a time when we are negotiating our exit from the | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
European Union. The UK backed Saudi war in Yeaman continues to kill, | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
displays and injure thousands. With 300,000 cases of cholera. And on | :11:43. | :11:49. | |
this, a man-made catastrophe but was, Mr Speaker the government | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
continues to sell arms to Saudi Arabia, one of the most oppressive | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
and butter regimes that finances terrorism and is breaching | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
humanitarian law. The court may have ruled that the government actively | :12:02. | :12:04. | |
gay. It certainly is not acting ethically. -- acted legally. We on | :12:05. | :12:16. | |
the ceasefire agreed, it is good news, did the Prime Minister play | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
any role in those negotiations. But she commit to work with them to | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
expand the ceasefire to the rest of that poor benighted country. The US | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
President's attempt to pull out of the climate change deal is both | :12:31. | :12:32. | |
reckless and very dangerous. The commitments made in Paris are a | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
vital move to stop the world reaching the point of no return on | :12:37. | :12:44. | |
climate change. The T20 leaders have been unequivocal with the US | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
president but not our Prime Minister who raised the is suing formally. I | :12:50. | :12:56. | |
don't know what that means but the Prime Minister can tell us exactly | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
what the nature of meeting was. What a complete neglect of her duty both | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
to our people and perhaps equally importantly to our planet as well. | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
We need a leader prepared to speak out and talk up follies of | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
international co-operation, of human rights, social justice and respect | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
for international law. She needs to listen. So I ask, will she condemn | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
attempts to undermine global co-operation on climate change. Will | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
she take meaningful action against our country's role in global tax | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
avoidance, which starts many developing countries of funding for | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
sustainable growth which is also sucking investment out of our public | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
services. Will she offer European union National is in Britain the | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
same rights as they have now. What proposals does she have, what | :13:50. | :13:55. | |
discussants did she have on Britain's membership of your Tom. | :13:56. | :14:01. | |
Will she hold immoral arms sales to Saudi Arabia as Germany has and will | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
she backed Germany's call to end the bombing in Yemen. We've heard of the | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
Prime Minister talk about safe spaces for terrorist finance. So why | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
are so government sat on the report into foreign funding of extremism | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
and radicalisation in the UK. When will this report be released. And | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
what new regulations is the UK bringing forward for UK companies | :14:25. | :14:32. | |
and banks as part of her new accord on terrorist financing. Mr Speaker, | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
keeping Britain global is one of our country's most urgent tasks. Yet the | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
truth is this country needs a new approach to foreign policy and | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
global co-operation. The Conservative government, simply | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
cannot deliver. Responding to the grotesque levels of inequality | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
within countries and between them is important to the security and | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
sustainability of our world. In a joint report published in April, the | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
World Bank, the IMF, the world trade organisation recognised what they | :15:07. | :15:09. | |
referred to as the long-lasting displacement as well as large | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
winning bosses of workers. And that the negative experience of | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
globalisation has informed the public 's rejection of the | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
established political order. The Prime Minister talks of the dumping | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
of steel in global markets but white as it failed to take the action that | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
the other European nations did of the most acute time an our steel | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
industry is suffering? This government is the architect of the | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
failed austerity policies and now threatens to use Brexit to turn | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
Britain into a low wage deregulated tax haven on the shores of Europe. | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
And narrow, hopeless vision of the potential of this country, which | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
would only serve the few. One that would ruin industry, destroy | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
innovation and hit living standards. And finally Mr Speaker the US | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
president said, a US- UK trade deal will happen quickly. Can the Prime | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
Minister give any detail or timetable or any of the terms of | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
this agreement on environmental protections, workers' rights, | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
consumer rights, product safety, any of those PCs that is so concerned | :16:19. | :16:25. | |
that so many people? Mr Speaker, she lost her mandate at home and know | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
she is losing Britain and her influence abroad. Prime Minister. | :16:29. | :16:38. | |
Thank you Mr Speaker. Can I say to the right honourable gentleman on | :16:39. | :16:40. | |
the issue of terrorist financing it is the UK that has been not only | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
developing approaches within the UK with working with our financial | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
sector but is taking this internationally and as I said raised | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
this at the G20 and has agreement from those countries sitting around | :16:55. | :16:57. | |
the T20 table that we will take this forward together. What was important | :16:58. | :17:03. | |
was that we had a separate communique on counterterrorism which | :17:04. | :17:05. | |
specifically identifies issues like working with the financial sector to | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
identify suspicious small flows of funding. This is what the UK has | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
been leading on, it was the UK's proposal and was in the communique | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
at the due 20. He talks of global tax avoidance. If the UK that has | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
led on the issue of global tax avoidance. Global tax avoidance is | :17:25. | :17:27. | |
only on the agenda at international meetings because right honourable | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
predecessor David Cameron put it there. It is the UK that has leading | :17:33. | :17:40. | |
on that. He talks about trade deals, I am very happy to say that we are | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
already working with the Americans and what a trade deal might look | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
like, we already have a working group with the Australians and one | :17:50. | :17:52. | |
with India as well. We are out there. He says what Britain needs is | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
somebody standing up and speaking about these things, what we need is | :17:59. | :18:01. | |
someone doing these things and this is exactly what we are doing. And on | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
the issue of climate change this country has a proud record on | :18:07. | :18:12. | |
climate change. We secured the first truly globally legal binding | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
agreement on climate change at the Paris agreement, we are third best | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
country in the world on tackling climate change, at the leading edge | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
on putting our own legislation through regarding emissions and we | :18:28. | :18:30. | |
will continue to lead on this issue. He refers to the question of the | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
sale of arms to Saudi Arabia. I welcome the High Court judgment | :18:35. | :18:37. | |
today. This shows that Mike right honourable friend the Defence | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
Secretary will make a statement on this later, but it shows that we do | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
operate one of the most robust export control regimes in the world. | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
And finally he talked of the government 's agenda. This | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
government has an ambitious agenda to change this country. There are | :18:56. | :19:11. | |
many issues... Mr Ashworth you are a cheeky and other excitable | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
whippersnapper. Calm yourself. Take some sort of soothing medicament. It | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
is a refrain of mine, with good reason. Per minister. Mr Speaker | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
that many issues on which I hope we will achieve consensus across this | :19:27. | :19:32. | |
House. Like ensuring that our police and security agencies have the | :19:33. | :19:34. | |
powers they need to deal with the terrorist threat we face. It is like | :19:35. | :19:43. | |
responding to the Matthew Taylor report which I initiated to ensure | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
that in the new gig economy as we see the world of work changing | :19:48. | :19:53. | |
workers have their rights protected. Finally I also hope we talked about | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
women's empowerment at this G20 summit. One of the issues that have | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
been concerned about recently is the fact that many female candidates in | :20:02. | :20:04. | |
the general election found themselves bullied and harassed. And | :20:05. | :20:11. | |
in receipt of bullying and harassment. I would have thought, as | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
has been referred to by the right Honourable Lady, the Member for | :20:17. | :20:19. | |
Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford, I would have hoped that | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
every leader of every party in this House would condemn such action and | :20:25. | :20:34. | |
it's time he did so. John Redwood. I congratulate the Prime Minister on | :20:35. | :20:37. | |
her many successes at a productive summit particularly on the trade | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
front. Would she confirmed that ministers are working not just on | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
trade deals with those countries who don't have once about the moment but | :20:45. | :20:50. | |
will when we are outside the EU but or making sure we transferred the EU | :20:51. | :20:54. | |
ones to the UK as well as to the rest of the EU on Brexit. Am happy | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
to give that confirmation to my right honourable friend. Three areas | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
in trade we are working on. One, looking ahead to trade agreements we | :21:05. | :21:07. | |
can have with countries we don't have them with as a member of the | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
EU, the second, ensuring that where there are trade agreements with the | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
EU, as we Lee Hook enrolled as Ford, the third area is working with | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
countries like India and Australia to say what changes we can make now | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
before we leave the EU to Wood EU to improve our trade relationship. | :21:27. | :21:34. | |
Thank you Mr Speaker. The G20's and was an eye opening event, the UK is | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
now floundering on a global stage desperately trying to win friends. A | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
disastrous, and predictable alliance formed with the American president | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
on trade. Goodness knows what a trade deal with America would mean | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
for public services, food quality and workers' rights. Talk about UK- | :21:54. | :22:00. | |
US trade deal was dubbed a blow by the Prime Minister 's own Justice | :22:01. | :22:03. | |
Secretary who only hours after the summit ended said it wouldn't be | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
enough on its own. The Prime Minister must now come to her | :22:08. | :22:10. | |
senses. The United Kingdom outside the single market would be ruinous. | :22:11. | :22:18. | |
Our EU friends and partners are moving on without us. This year | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
alone finalising trade deals with Japan and Canada while the UK turns | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
in on itself. Today's Scottish chamber of commerce shows 61% of | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
Scottish businesses feel the UK should remain in both the single | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
market and the customs union. It is quite scandalous that the Prime | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
Minister turns a blind eye to the economy in favour of Eurosceptic | :22:45. | :22:51. | |
colleagues. Mr Speaker, I welcome the progress made at the G20 summit. | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
I especially pay tribute to the work of the German Chancellor who hosted | :22:57. | :22:59. | |
and delivered a challenging agenda on global issues. The communique is | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
clear, we must redouble our efforts in the Paris agreement, calling it | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
irreversible. As the Prime Minister to set up the next steps in | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
delivering the Paris agreement. The communique also delivers the T20- | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
Africa partnership to boost growth and jobs across Africa including an | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
initiative on rural employment creating 1.1 million new jobs by | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
2022. Can the Prime Minister explain the UK's role in delivering the | :23:30. | :23:32. | |
initiative and confirm whether the UK role will continue after exiting | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
the EU. Mr Speaker, the agreement to take further action to achieve | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
gender equality is universally welcomed in this House. The | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
conclusions also push the T20 to taking immediate effective measures | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
to eliminate child Labour by 2025, forced Labour, human trafficking and | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
all forms of modern slavery, promising step indeed. However Mr | :23:56. | :23:58. | |
Speaker the Prime Minister went to Hamburg with an open message, she | :23:59. | :24:04. | |
wanted the T20 to tackle terrorism. In particular she wanted the G20 to | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
tackle terrorist financing. What staggering hypocrisy. The Prime | :24:09. | :24:15. | |
Minister, sitting on a board commissioned by her predecessor, | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
denying us the truth about terrorist financing in the UK had the brass | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
neck to call upon the G20 to do more. What an absolute outrage. Will | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
she publish the Home Office report on terror funding in the UK and | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
world she said at a public inquiry into questions around the funding of | :24:32. | :24:40. | |
extremism? I hope that the honourable gentleman was not making | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
a personal accusation against the Prime Minister. Order, order, I know | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
what I'm doing in these matters. I cannot believe that he would | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
knowingly do that, make a personal accusation against the Prime | :24:54. | :24:56. | |
Minister because it is disorderly and if he is not aware of that it is | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
time he was. I think he ought to spring to his feet and clarify the | :25:01. | :25:07. | |
position. I'm happy to clarify. Point of explanation. My sense was | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
that there was an element of an accusation. Withdraw. I will | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
withdraw the allegation against the Prime Minister. Per minister. -- per | :25:16. | :25:18. | |
minister. As I stepped out in my statement | :25:19. | :25:30. | |
earlier. We have set out with a number of countries, the United | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
States, Japan, China, India, and other countries at the G20. He asked | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
about the compact with Africa, this is not a unique EU -ish and | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
initiative, it is something that has been led by Chancellor Merkel under | :25:46. | :25:51. | |
the G20 and the UK is playing its role. The principles that underpin | :25:52. | :25:54. | |
the compact with Africa are principles we have used in our | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
systems we have been giving it development aid to do variety of | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
countries in Africa are already, and we already have a compact with | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
Ethiopian witness the UK has put forward which will create 100,000 | :26:07. | :26:13. | |
jobs including jobs for refugees living in Ethiopia. Again, we have | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
shown by what we are doing a commitment to these issues already. | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
He talks about the issue of terrorist financing, of course what | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
we looks to cast is that we are looking across the board at all | :26:27. | :26:29. | |
aspects of terrorist financing and that means as we look at the | :26:30. | :26:32. | |
changing nature of terrorism that we do not just look at large-scale | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
financing we also look at the small sums of financing that are harder to | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
trace, harder to identify, but which could potentially underpin attacks | :26:42. | :26:48. | |
that take place. That is where the communique clearly put a focus and | :26:49. | :26:52. | |
that is a new initiative that has been taken. Then he talks about | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
modern slavery, I think it is important to eradicate that. It was | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
in the G20 agenda, because I put it there. Because modern slavery is an | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
issue this Government takes very seriously. We introduced a modern | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
slavery act, the first piece of legislation in its kind in the | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
world, and we are working with others to ensure we eradicate modern | :27:15. | :27:18. | |
slavery. I have to say, his portrayal of the UK's position at | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
the G20 was simply wrong. But then he wasn't there, and I was. If I am | :27:23. | :27:29. | |
to accommodate the extensive interests of colleagues in this | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
matter, there will be an imperative for great brevity, to be I hope | :27:35. | :27:42. | |
spectacularly exemplified now. That is kind of you, but I didn't | :27:43. | :27:45. | |
actually have a question. LAUGHTER | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
Well the answer is, the right honourable lady... All! I didn't | :27:51. | :27:57. | |
imagine it in my sleep, the Right Honourable lay lady was standing. If | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
she sees to do so I did not realise, but she has led to her feet with | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
alacrity, the house is in a state of eager anticipation and baited | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
breath. I would like to take the opportunity to say something. I | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
wondered if my right honourable friend could help is with the modern | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
slavery act because she rightly identifies we have led the world on | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
this sort of legislation and many of us are hugely proud of the work she | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
did when she was Home Secretary. Is she finding that across the world | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
there is now a desire for other countries to follow where she and | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
this country have led? I am pleased to be able to say to her that is | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
indeed the case. We are seeing a much greater awareness of this wish | :28:42. | :28:44. | |
you around the world and we are seeing a much greater willingness | :28:45. | :28:47. | |
for governments to look at this issue. First, I think governments | :28:48. | :28:53. | |
are looking at the human trafficking aspect across borders but as we know | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
in the UK it is also important to look at what happens in country two | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
to citizens of 1's own country, and that is what we are doing. I am | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
certain the member will be as brief as his surname. In the light of the | :29:07. | :29:14. | |
discussions of security, the Prime Minister will no doubt be aware | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
across the house about her proposal to withdraw the UK from the Euratom | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
treaty despite the concerns there are about the implications for | :29:23. | :29:29. | |
scientists, materials and is life-saving therapies. Can she | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
explained what the cake nuclear industry gains from such a policy? I | :29:34. | :29:37. | |
am sure he will be aware from his chairing of the select committee | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
that members see of Euratom is inextricably linked with membership | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
of the EU. What we are doing, as was signalled in the Queen's speech, | :29:47. | :29:49. | |
with reference to a future Bill on this issue, is wanting to ensure we | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
can in maintaining these relationships which enable the | :29:54. | :29:59. | |
exchange of scientists, material, there are countries around the world | :30:00. | :30:02. | |
that have that relationship with Euratom but are not memberships of | :30:03. | :30:13. | |
the EU. I look forward to the Bill. Does my right honourable friend | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
agree that free trade is going to be one of the great Brexit dividends, | :30:18. | :30:21. | |
that it will provide cheaper feud, clothing and footwear to the | :30:22. | :30:24. | |
greatest benefit of the poorest in our society? I agree that it is free | :30:25. | :30:33. | |
trade that enables us to grow economies, increase prosperity, | :30:34. | :30:36. | |
provide jobs. And there will be benefits from the trade agreements | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
that we want to negotiate around the whole of the world. But we also need | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
as a country to defend the concept of free trade because it is under | :30:45. | :30:52. | |
too much attack from protectionists. When journalists and have been | :30:53. | :31:02. | |
murdered in Putin's Russia, does the primaries to share my anger at the | :31:03. | :31:07. | |
chilling sight of Presidents Trump and Putin joking about the | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
inconvenience of a free press? Will she commit to raising the importance | :31:12. | :31:15. | |
of the independence of the media to both leaders when she meets them | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
next? We defend a free press, we think it is an intentional and | :31:21. | :31:24. | |
depending of our democracy here and we want to defend it around the | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
world. I can assure the lady that indeed we do regularly raise this | :31:30. | :31:32. | |
issue with the Russian president and at all levels in Russian | :31:33. | :31:41. | |
authorities. Can I also pay tribute to my right honourable friend for | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
the all that work she has done in the past on the issue of human | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
trafficking and slavery and I commend her for raising this at the | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
G20. With the world on the move unfortunately opportunities for more | :31:54. | :31:56. | |
of this rather than less are now there. So what can we do between the | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
G20's to ensure other countries take this as seriously as we do. We have | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
set the bar in this we need to raise others to it. That is right. We are | :32:06. | :32:12. | |
taking action across a number of areas. The specific area we focused | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
on the G20 was the business supply chains, but one of the key ways of | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
ensuring we can act against human trafficking and modern slavery is | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
through the cooperation of law enforcement agencies here in the UK | :32:27. | :32:29. | |
with others around the world, and that is exactly what we are | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
encouraging and what is happening with some success. A year ago the | :32:33. | :32:39. | |
then financial secretary told the house that the Government supported | :32:40. | :32:42. | |
a multilateral deal on public country by country reporting. He | :32:43. | :32:45. | |
said if we have not made progress by this time next year on reaching a | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
multilateral agreement we will need to look carefully at the issue | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
again. A year on, can I ask for confirmation of what discussant she | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
has had with G20 members to make sure we can cap tackle corporate tax | :32:58. | :33:06. | |
avoidance? This is an issue we regularly raise. It is true to say | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
that we are disappointed at the lack of progress that has been made in | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
this area. We will continue to press on this issue but if we are going to | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
get that multilateral agreement others have to agree to this concept | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
as well. We will continue to press it. It is there because the UK has | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
been putting it on the agenda in the past. We will continue to do so. | :33:28. | :33:35. | |
About this new love fest with the benches opposite, given the record | :33:36. | :33:43. | |
of the Leader of the Opposition on the counterterrorism and security | :33:44. | :33:46. | |
act, does she possessed a very long spoon? | :33:47. | :33:54. | |
LAUGHTER Yes, I can say to my right | :33:55. | :33:59. | |
honourable friend that I have in the past as Home Secretary welcomes the | :34:00. | :34:03. | |
cooperation which I have had from the Labour benches, not from the | :34:04. | :34:06. | |
right honourable gentleman who is currently the Leader of the | :34:07. | :34:09. | |
Opposition, but from others who have seen the need to ensure our agencies | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
have appropriate powers to deal with terrorist threats that we face. I | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
look forward to Labour MPs and indeed others across the benches | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
opposite in this house, coming forward and supporting those | :34:23. | :34:24. | |
counterterrorism measures when they are brought forward. The G20 | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
communique includes important reference to investment in global | :34:30. | :34:33. | |
education, including the global partnership for education and | :34:34. | :34:36. | |
education cannot wait. The UK has a proud record in leading in global | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
health. Will she join with Argentina in the forthcoming G20 presidency to | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
give investment in global dedication the premise to it deserves? Indeed I | :34:46. | :34:51. | |
would say it is not about looking at ahead to the agenda for the next | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
meeting, it is also about what the UK has been doing practically | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
through our international development budget as significant | :35:01. | :35:03. | |
number of girls around the world being educated as a result of the | :35:04. | :35:07. | |
input we put in. We think that global education agenda is very | :35:08. | :35:14. | |
important. Thank you. As the Prime Minister said in her statement, as | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
we are leaving the EU we are not leaving Europe. Can I welcome the | :35:19. | :35:21. | |
announcement we will continue to work with our European friends and | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
allies in developing a better overall approach to managing | :35:27. | :35:32. | |
economic migration? He is right. I think this is an issue that the UK | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
again has been leading on. And increasingly we see other countries | :35:38. | :35:40. | |
recognising that what the UK has said about the importance of | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
differentiating refugees and economic migrants, we will continue | :35:45. | :35:47. | |
to work not just in the G20 on that but in the UN work that started last | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
year that will be progressing towards the end of this year in | :35:53. | :35:55. | |
terms of looking at the compact for migration and refugees across the | :35:56. | :36:03. | |
world. We know that US intelligence services leaked sensitive UK | :36:04. | :36:07. | |
intelligence in the hours following the attack on the Ariana Grande | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
concert in Manchester. This weekend we had Presidents Trump and Putin | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
discussing forming and penetrable cyber security unit so that election | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
hacking will be guarded and safe. According to Presidents Trump's | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
tweet. Can she guarantee that UK intelligence assets on cyber warfare | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
will not be compromised or shared in anyway as long as there is a risk of | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
this sort of bizarre and dangerous alliance with the Russians? I can | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
say to the honourable lady that we take the issue of intelligence | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
sharing very seriously. It is important we are able to share | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
intelligence with our allies in the US and with other allies around the | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
world, but what what matters is we are able to do that on the basis of | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
confidence, that that intelligence will be treated appropriately. I can | :36:58. | :37:02. | |
assure her we take the whole issue of cyber security extremely | :37:03. | :37:05. | |
seriously, that is why we set up the new National Cyber Security Centre | :37:06. | :37:10. | |
and we recognise and understand the threat Russia poses in that area. | :37:11. | :37:17. | |
The G20 summit we heard positive words from the president of the US | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
and more this morning from the President of Australia as to the | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
opportunities for rapid and comprehensive trade deals between | :37:27. | :37:29. | |
their companies and the UK. Does my right honourable friend agree that | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
new trade deals with old friends and knew that are only really a risible | :37:34. | :37:36. | |
outside the customs union will add to the prosperity of a new global | :37:37. | :37:44. | |
Britain? He is right. We have been very clear that we want to be able | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
to and take an sign up to and activate those new trade deals with | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
old friends and new allies alike, and that means not being in the part | :37:53. | :37:55. | |
of the customs union that would prevent it. It is important we are | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
able to negotiate trade agreement with the EU and the rest of the | :37:59. | :38:05. | |
world. Can I press the Prime Minister on the issue of migration | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
and displacement that affects 65 million people worldwide? She will | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
know since the 1st of January 82,800 people have risked their lives | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
trying to cross the Mediterranean and 2000 have died. The G20 leaders | :38:20. | :38:26. | |
run 84% of the economy of the world. Apart from the 55 million as you | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
mentioned going to Tanzania, what other resources are being given to | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
deal with this catastrophic problem? The resources being given to this | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
issue are significant and varied. From the UK's own point of view, | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
there is the work we have been doing through our development aid budget, | :38:46. | :38:48. | |
particularly in another of countries in Africa, I referred earlier to the | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
compact we have of Ethiopia, which is providing jobs there for refugees | :38:54. | :38:57. | |
and others, because we see it as important to ensure that there are | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
economic opportunities in the countries of origin for this | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
migration so people do not feel the need to make this journey. We have | :39:05. | :39:12. | |
also, as I announced, we are giving extra funding, 75 million to work | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
with Libya and Italy to ensure that there are humane conditions for | :39:17. | :39:23. | |
people to able to return to countries in Africa that we increase | :39:24. | :39:30. | |
the ability of the Libyan coast guard to ensure they are properly | :39:31. | :39:33. | |
intercepting those boats which could pose a risk to people in terms of | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
their life if they were to make it across the Mediterranean. It is | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
multifaceted, but the UK is involved in every aspect. The Leader of the | :39:42. | :39:48. | |
Opposition has spent his entire life opposing trade deals with countries | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
around the world such as Mexico and India. The Prime Minister success at | :39:54. | :39:58. | |
G20 means we can look both East and West securing trade deals and does | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
my right honourable friend agree that we should recognise and be | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
proud of the global confidence in British services, goods, and the | :40:07. | :40:14. | |
British economy? My honourable friend is absolutely right. I think | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
the fact that a number of leaders, those I have mentioned, but others | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
as well, have expressed their interest in trade deals with the UK, | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
it is a vote of confidence in the British people. | :40:27. | :40:33. | |
Mr Speaker, I would be interested to know when the Prime Minister expects | :40:34. | :40:39. | |
to sign a trade deal with Australia and India how much these deals will | :40:40. | :40:42. | |
be worth and how much extra immigration she will accept as part | :40:43. | :40:48. | |
of these deals. The honourable lady may know that there's a limit to | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
what we can put in place while we are still members of the EU but we | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
can still discuss what a future trade agreement might be and it | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
doesn't mean we can't discuss how to improve trade relations already, | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
there are some areas we can do that which are not covered in terms of EU | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
competences and those discussions are having. Has been found. There | :41:08. | :41:14. | |
does seem to be consensus that when we leave the European Union UK- US | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
free trade deal would be a good and necessary thing. Does the Prime | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
Minister welcomed the clear support of the American administration that | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
this is expressed at the G20 but the other important decision-makers in | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
this are the US Congress. Following her successful visit to Philadelphia | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
with the Republican caucus witchy enable the excellent Congressional | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
relations office of our office in Washington to up MPs make the case | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
to congressional colleagues for this free trade deal? My right honourable | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
friend is right about the role Congress will play, he has raised an | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
interesting idea. I did indeed have discussions with members of Congress | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
in Philadelphia and I know that my right honourable friend was | :41:59. | :42:01. | |
Secretary of State for International Development has been having | :42:02. | :42:03. | |
discussions recently in America with members of Congress as well. We will | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
certainly consider the proposal that my right honourable friend has put | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
forward. He's right, we will work with Congress and the American | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
administration on this. Mr Speaker she says she wants help for building | :42:18. | :42:20. | |
consensus on sensible policies, there a majority in this House to | :42:21. | :42:31. | |
stay in Euratom and also in the European medicines agency so why | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
not. As referred to the membership of ten 2-mac is inextricably linked | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
with membership of the EU and as we leave the EU we will leave Euratom. | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
Yet what we look to put in place is a similar relationship with Euratom | :42:45. | :42:47. | |
like other countries which are not members of the EU having access to | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
the movement of scientists and materials and the standards produced | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
under Euratom. We recognise the importance of this, this is why a | :42:58. | :43:00. | |
bill in relation to this was in the Queen's Speech. Sir Edward Lee. As | :43:01. | :43:07. | |
my right honourable friend is now open to ideas to a man who tried to | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
remove her from office will she take an idea from a friend who stood on a | :43:12. | :43:18. | |
platform of keeping her in office? And once it is day in office. The | :43:19. | :43:29. | |
honourable gentleman from Rhondda should come himself, I want to hear | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
what the honourable member the gains that has to say. We have warm words | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
on helping Italy of migration but as long as Italy is forced to take all | :43:39. | :43:41. | |
the refugees more and more will come. Will my right honourable | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
friend work with our allies to establish safe havens in Libya so | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
that people can be returned safely to Libya. That's a conservative | :43:50. | :43:55. | |
idea, not useless socialist one! I have to say to my right honourable | :43:56. | :43:58. | |
friend not only is that concept of being able to return people to Libya | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
a good one, it is one we already working on. This is one of the | :44:03. | :44:08. | |
issues we will be discussing with the Italians and others in relation | :44:09. | :44:12. | |
to the extra humanitarian aid we are making available. We've also made | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
available, offered to the Italians, support and help to return as to | :44:18. | :44:20. | |
Nigeria because a significant number of those reaching Italy are from | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
Nigeria and we have arrangements already run by the United Kingdom in | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
Nigeria to provide just that sort of area where people are able to stay. | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
Alison McGovern. May I ask the Prime Minister about Syria and the loss of | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
civilian life specifically as it relates to you as operations against | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
Morisi in Raqqa. It appears that the rules of engagement have changed. So | :44:45. | :44:51. | |
has she raised this with the US or have any of her ministers -- US | :44:52. | :45:01. | |
operations against Daesh. We regularly in discussion with the | :45:02. | :45:03. | |
Americans and others in the coalition about the action. The | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
action taken place in Mosul to drive Daesh of muscle is important and the | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
reaction in Raqqa will be important but as United Kingdom we take the | :45:15. | :45:18. | |
position that we want to ensure that these actions deal with those who | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
they are supposed to deal with, ie the terrorists, and don't affect | :45:23. | :45:30. | |
civilians. Mr Costa. Thank you Mr Speaker, may I add my welcome to the | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
statement from the Prime Minister particularly in respect of | :45:35. | :45:37. | |
assistance given to Italy to tackle migration. I am chairman of the APPG | :45:38. | :45:43. | |
research group and as my right honourable friend knows, Greece also | :45:44. | :45:49. | |
has a huge burden with the movement of migrants. Would my right | :45:50. | :45:51. | |
honourable friend agreed to consider whether the delegation that has been | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
sent to Italy might also be sent in due course to Greece? What we are | :45:57. | :46:07. | |
doing is mirroring in Italy something we have offered Greece and | :46:08. | :46:15. | |
which they have taken up. It's difficult because of the deal with | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
Turkey that EU did so we've seen a significant reduction in the number | :46:20. | :46:23. | |
of migrants trying to reach Greece. We've also seen people coming | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
through those roots and trying to go through Libya into Italy. But we | :46:27. | :46:31. | |
will certainly ensure that we are giving as much support as we can to | :46:32. | :46:38. | |
Italy in this matter. Sir Vincent cable. In the Prime Minister's | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
enthusiasm for a bilateral trade union with the USA Wilshere accept | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
American insistence that we don't loot food standards and agree to the | :46:48. | :46:51. | |
establishments of investment protection mechanisms which override | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
British courts -- Wilshere accept? . Nash will she accept that we dilate | :46:57. | :47:03. | |
food standards? This hasn't yet taken place, we will be negotiating | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
trade commissions with the Americans. Thank you, Mr Speaker. | :47:08. | :47:17. | |
Many countries are eager to trade free from punitive tariffs, does my | :47:18. | :47:20. | |
right honourable friend agree that Britain can be a leader in free | :47:21. | :47:23. | |
trade fair trade once we leave the by setting off our own standards and | :47:24. | :47:31. | |
striking our: trade deals. It's important, we will have that ability | :47:32. | :47:38. | |
once outside the EU to strike deals around the world, underpinning what | :47:39. | :47:41. | |
my right honourable friend asks is the need for the UK to stand up and | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
promote free and fair trade around the world. As I said earlier in | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
response to another honourable friend, there is this attempt in | :47:50. | :47:55. | |
some areas to towards protectionism. I think we should stand against | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
that. We should show clearly that it is free trade that brings prosperity | :48:00. | :48:03. | |
and jobs and help is not just economy is like ours but some of the | :48:04. | :48:07. | |
poorest countries in the world to develop. Given the special | :48:08. | :48:13. | |
relationship the Prime Minister enjoys with President Trump can she | :48:14. | :48:16. | |
explain why she failed to influence him from preventing him from pulling | :48:17. | :48:23. | |
out the Paris climate agreement? And will she commend that decision and | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
refrain from rolling out the red carpet in the form of a state visit | :48:28. | :48:37. | |
to him. We made, i-mate, the UK made, our views on the Paris climate | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
agreement is well-known, the US takes its own decisions, this is a | :48:43. | :48:47. | |
commitment President Trump made in his electoral campaign, I said to | :48:48. | :48:50. | |
him more than once that either the USA can be encouraged to come back | :48:51. | :48:53. | |
into the Paris agreement, I think it is important and we will try to work | :48:54. | :49:01. | |
to get them back in. David TC Davies. Mr Speaker given that most | :49:02. | :49:06. | |
of the MPC are stored on a platform backing tracks and including the | :49:07. | :49:09. | |
Leader of the Opposition isn't it time people stopped using these | :49:10. | :49:12. | |
negotiations for political or personal advantage and united behind | :49:13. | :49:16. | |
the Prime Minister and her ministers to get on with the deal that works | :49:17. | :49:25. | |
for the Halliburton? Whole of Britain. My honourable friend is | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
right, 80% of votes in the general election were for parties that | :49:31. | :49:33. | |
wanted to deliver on the Brexit decision taken by the British people | :49:34. | :49:36. | |
in the referendum master. That is what the government will get on and | :49:37. | :49:39. | |
do and I hope others in the House was aborted. The Prime Minister said | :49:40. | :49:46. | |
in a statement that women and children are being enslaved, forced | :49:47. | :49:49. | |
into hard Labour, raped and beaten and passed from abuse and to abuse | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
of profit. Does she agree that this is no more true than the depravity | :49:54. | :49:58. | |
of child prostitution in India and did she raised this with the Prime | :49:59. | :50:04. | |
Minister of India? I have raised this issue previously with the Prime | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
Minister of India, the question of modern slavery, as we have, to | :50:09. | :50:16. | |
address this particular issue. We are very clear that we want to see | :50:17. | :50:23. | |
this issue being dealt with, this is one reason why we have put into | :50:24. | :50:26. | |
legislation requirement for companies in the UK who will be | :50:27. | :50:29. | |
manufacturing and sourcing products from around the world that they need | :50:30. | :50:32. | |
to look at their supply chains and make sure and report on they find in | :50:33. | :50:37. | |
their supply chains and whether or not modern slavery is taking place | :50:38. | :50:43. | |
within those supply chains. Does the Prime Minister agree that while we | :50:44. | :50:46. | |
are still leaving the EU there are many manners in which we still need | :50:47. | :50:50. | |
to cooperate, especially dealing with the migrant problems, how we | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
will manage international trade and work with Europe to tackle the evil | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
of people trafficking, and also cooperate to stop multinationals | :51:01. | :51:06. | |
abusing tax systems across the continent. I agree with my | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
honourable friend, there is much on which we will continue to cooperate. | :51:11. | :51:15. | |
With countries in the European Union, the relations we have with | :51:16. | :51:18. | |
French and Belgium in particular in relation to ports and the traffic of | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
people across the Channel is very important to us. And we have been | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
working increasingly with the French authorities and reversing including | :51:27. | :51:29. | |
the Greek authorities in dealing with this issue of human trafficking | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
and successfully insuring criminal gangs involved in this are not just | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
identified but investigated and prosecuted. | :51:38. | :51:51. | |
Bambos Charalambous. As the Prime Minister spoken to the president of | :51:52. | :51:59. | |
Turkey about the Cyprus talks? Headed on by authors put to the | :52:00. | :52:01. | |
Secretary General of the UN who was president at the talks. About the | :52:02. | :52:08. | |
reasons why they broke down. It is a matter not only of disappointment | :52:09. | :52:11. | |
but great sadness that those talks did not come to fruition, they were | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
the closest we have come to finding a solution for the unification of | :52:17. | :52:23. | |
Cyprus. It was a matter of sadness that this could not be achieved. The | :52:24. | :52:31. | |
United Kingdom played a strong role in trying to achieve that but sadly | :52:32. | :52:39. | |
it did not happen. One quarter of G20 members are also members of the | :52:40. | :52:43. | |
Commonwealth, I welcome my honourable friend welcoming | :52:44. | :52:49. | |
preliminary discussions with Australia and India, can she also | :52:50. | :52:51. | |
say what discussions have been had with other Commonwealth countries | :52:52. | :52:55. | |
like New Zealand. And happy to let my honourable friend know that we | :52:56. | :53:01. | |
have also been discussing with New Zealand, this is an issue we can | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
progress with other members of the Commonwealth, not just New Zealand, | :53:07. | :53:13. | |
also Canada. Catherine West. Mr Speaker, what concrete steps will be | :53:14. | :53:16. | |
taken to get climate change back on the discussion with the US | :53:17. | :53:22. | |
administration. We raise the issue regularly with them but crucially | :53:23. | :53:24. | |
there was a clear message from everyone at the G 22 the US | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
administration about the importance we all placed on that climate change | :53:29. | :53:32. | |
agreement, the Paris agreement and the US being a member of it. Mr | :53:33. | :53:41. | |
Philip collarbone. Kettering is located at the economic beating | :53:42. | :53:44. | |
heart of the nation so a strong economy and new international trade | :53:45. | :53:47. | |
deals post Brexit are very important for all of us live there. The Prime | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
Minister has told the house that over the weekend she met the leaders | :53:52. | :53:56. | |
of America, China, Japan and India to talk about new trade deals. May I | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
say it sounds like a very good start and a very good week and's work. I | :54:01. | :54:10. | |
thank my honourable friend and can I also recognise the important role | :54:11. | :54:13. | |
Kettering plays in the economy of this country and the benefits when | :54:14. | :54:16. | |
we see new trade deals coming into place. Mr Speaker can the Prime | :54:17. | :54:25. | |
Minister guarantee that Brexit will not weaken the fight against | :54:26. | :54:34. | |
terrorism? Will we retain full membership of Eurapo and Eurajust? I | :54:35. | :54:45. | |
have defended our membership of that and various other things, we are | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
informal negotiations with the EU and these will be part of the | :54:50. | :55:02. | |
negotiations but I am sure, some of the arrangements with countries are | :55:03. | :55:07. | |
arrangements we have outside EU but we want to retain that co-operation | :55:08. | :55:11. | |
because it is important not only for us but the countries outside euro | :55:12. | :55:23. | |
FIA - EU. What does she see in that crisis and might not part of it be | :55:24. | :55:26. | |
restrictions against British banks, two of which had impositions against | :55:27. | :55:32. | |
them for inadvertently treading with North Korea. And happy to say I've | :55:33. | :55:37. | |
had discussions with other leaders about what is happening on the | :55:38. | :55:43. | |
Korean peninsula, especially with the president of China because I | :55:44. | :55:46. | |
think the role of China is a crucial one, they are the country that has | :55:47. | :55:51. | |
the greatest leveraged in relation to North Korea and I urge the | :55:52. | :55:54. | |
president of China as I believe others have done to exercise that | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
leveraged. We want to see the denuclearisation of North Korea. | :55:59. | :56:06. | |
The Prime Minister talks about boosting trade but could she tell is | :56:07. | :56:09. | |
what discussions he had with other leaders about the open skies | :56:10. | :56:13. | |
agreement with the USA which depends upon our relationship with the EU, | :56:14. | :56:17. | |
is a cause for concern to the aviation industry. Time is very | :56:18. | :56:27. | |
short. The open skies agreement was referenced in the conversation I had | :56:28. | :56:33. | |
with President ramp. Can I congratulate her on her comments | :56:34. | :56:37. | |
condemning President Trump's decision to abandon Paris? Can I | :56:38. | :56:43. | |
encourage her to keep the UK in the global Vanguard on climate change by | :56:44. | :56:52. | |
publishing so that those who are more reluctant can see the value of | :56:53. | :56:55. | |
a green economy? I think the UK has a good record on this. We can | :56:56. | :56:58. | |
PowerPoint are ready to the actions we have taken, but we can be looking | :56:59. | :57:05. | |
to do more on air quality in the future, but we can already show the | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
action we have taken and the benefit it has had. As I said earlier, there | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
is no contradiction between decarbonisation and a growing | :57:15. | :57:20. | |
economy. Is a bad trade deal with the United States better than no | :57:21. | :57:22. | |
deal? LAUGHTER | :57:23. | :57:26. | |
We will be working to negotiate a good trade deal with the US. She | :57:27. | :57:33. | |
will recall that the recently deceased teat it would have included | :57:34. | :57:41. | |
grotesque provisions for private corporations to prosecute legitimate | :57:42. | :57:46. | |
democratic governments. Would she resist any deal that includes such | :57:47. | :57:54. | |
proportions? I can assure him that as we look to negotiate a trade deal | :57:55. | :57:59. | |
with the US we will be looking for one in the best interest of the | :58:00. | :58:05. | |
United Kingdom. For all the progress against Dyche there are mine | :58:06. | :58:07. | |
hundreds of thousands of civilians in Syria who remain under siege from | :58:08. | :58:14. | |
the evil Al Assad Government. Will she look again at the issue of | :58:15. | :58:20. | |
getting aid with multilateral agreement into those besieged towns | :58:21. | :58:25. | |
and cities? He raised a very important issue which we do | :58:26. | :58:30. | |
regularly discuss with our coalition partners about the possibility of | :58:31. | :58:33. | |
getting that aid in. As he will know, there have been some attempts | :58:34. | :58:37. | |
to ensure aid can be getting through to those civilians who are besieged. | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
They have not always... He says try again. We do regularly raise this as | :58:43. | :58:48. | |
an issue. The best answer is to find a solution to the situation in Syria | :58:49. | :58:51. | |
which leads to a stable Syria meaning those civilians are no | :58:52. | :58:58. | |
longer besieged. In a summit of extraordinarily awkward moments, | :58:59. | :59:04. | |
perhaps the most bizarre was when President Trump's seat was taken by | :59:05. | :59:07. | |
his daughter. The Prime Minister did not seem to bat an eyelid, which I | :59:08. | :59:12. | |
assume is because she's exhuming somebody else will take her seat | :59:13. | :59:17. | |
soon. I wonder who she hopes that will be, the Home Secretary, the | :59:18. | :59:19. | |
Foreign Secretary, or the Chancellor? I have to say, in | :59:20. | :59:26. | |
relation to the fact that Iran could Trump took the present's seat at one | :59:27. | :59:30. | |
point, that was after a session we had had in the morning where we had | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
launched the rim and entrepreneurs financing initiative, which is an | :59:36. | :59:38. | |
initiative that has been developed by Yvonne could Trump and the World | :59:39. | :59:43. | |
Bank so I think it was entirely reasonable! It is welcome and that | :59:44. | :59:53. | |
the Prime Minister raised the issue of the jumping of Chinese steel but | :59:54. | :59:59. | |
quite frankly words are cheap. It is actions that matter. Can she please | :00:00. | :00:03. | |
tell the house what specific actions are going to be taken to ensure | :00:04. | :00:08. | |
China starts playing by the rules? The honourable gentleman will be | :00:09. | :00:11. | |
aware of the action we have taken here in the UK to support our steel | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
industry. We have urged at the last T20 took the decision that the | :00:18. | :00:20. | |
global Forum would be the basis on which work could be done | :00:21. | :00:23. | |
internationally to look at the issue of excess capacity in steel. That | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
has not worked as well as hoped. It was set up under the Chinese | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
presidency and it is that that we want to see with the ministerial | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
meeting to look at excess steel capacity this year. Will the Prime | :00:35. | :00:43. | |
Minister confirmed that the NHS will be excluded from any trade deal with | :00:44. | :00:49. | |
the United States? I am conscious that this was an issue that was | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
raised in relation to the T tip deal and concerned people had that | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
somehow that was about changing the NHS. We are not going to change the | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
NHS. The deal was never a deal that was going to impact on the NHS in | :01:04. | :01:11. | |
the way the opposition suggested. Not all G20 countries have made the | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
same sort of progress we have in this country in relation to racist | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
and discrimination are re-language. That was an issue she discussed and | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
does she agree that where it happens organisations should take decisive | :01:25. | :01:30. | |
and swift action? I have to say to him, I think it is beholden on a | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
salt to make sure we use appropriate language at all times. With the | :01:35. | :01:44. | |
President of German industries stating it would be negative from | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
Brexit, has she got any closer to carrying out an economic assessment | :01:49. | :01:57. | |
of the UK leaving the single market? What is very clear is that we want | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
to negotiate a comp Raza agreement with the European Union, which gives | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
us access to the single market. But anybody looking at the impact that | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
take place of leaving the single market should recognise that the | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
single market that is most important two nations within the ice kingdom | :02:16. | :02:25. | |
is the United Kingdom. Given her personal commitment to ending modern | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
slavery and her desire for other countries to follow the UK's please, | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
why did she think it takes her Home Office more than two years to | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
investigate the case of a woman in my constituency who is a victim of | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
rape, slavery and trafficking? What kind of example issue setting for | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
the G20 there? I am not aware of the individual case that you raise. He | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
talks about investigation of a case of rape. That is not a matter for | :02:54. | :02:56. | |
the Home Office, it is for the police. Following the questions by | :02:57. | :03:08. | |
Mike Right Honourable friend the member for Leeds Central and Exeter, | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
the Prime Minister said our membership of your atom is linked | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
with membership of the EU and yet we have been members of your atom for | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
longer than we have of the EU. So how can that be the case and world | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
Government rethink our arrangements and returns of your atom which is so | :03:30. | :03:39. | |
important? The fact is the treaty makes it clear that there is either | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
link between the membership. If you are a membership of the EU and | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
membership of the Euratom. Across the house we are all agreed that we | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
want to maintain the arrangements and relationships that currently | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
exist under Euratom. But they will be on a different basis in the | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
future. But we want to maintain them. There is no argument about | :04:00. | :04:06. | |
that. I thank her for her statement and note her effort to reform the | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
World Trade Organisation rules in order for them to keep up with the | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
services and digital sectors, crucial to the British economy. Does | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
she agree with me that any reform to the WTA rules will take longer than | :04:19. | :04:27. | |
we have left before we leave the EU? One of the point I was making at the | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
G20's we need to speed up the way the world trade organisation looks | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
at these issues. Looking a trade rules around the Digital economy is | :04:35. | :04:37. | |
not something they will be starting from scratch, they have been doing | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
ever some time, we need to ensure we get on with it and get get rules | :04:42. | :04:48. | |
set. I welcome her indication that she wants to coax the United States | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
back into the Paris agreement. Will she consider strengthening her | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
negotiating hand by suggesting to President Trump that there will be | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
no negotiations on a free-trade deal until they come back into the deal, | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
or is securing a free-trade deal with the US is more important than | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
securing the future the planet? What we want is to ensure we get a good | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
trade deal with the US because it will be to the benefit of people in | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
the UK with proper parity and economic growth and jobs across the | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
UK. But we will continue to press on climate change agreement as well. | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
And as I say, I am encouraging President Trump as are others to | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
find a way back into the Paris agreement. I think it is important | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
for us all. Meanwhile we will continue to do our bit in terms of | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
the application of the Paris agreement. Older. I think the right | :05:36. | :05:42. | |
honourable gentleman wanted to raise a point of order. No? OK. I was | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
going to say if he wanted to it would normally be after statements | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
but he could raise it now if he wanted to. But he does not wish to. | :05:52. | :05:59. | |
That is fine. Thank you. We move now to the second statement. The | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
statement the Secretary of State for International Development, Doctor | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
Liam Fox. With permission I would like to make a station on the High | :06:12. | :06:14. | |
Court judgment on export licensing. We welcome the divisional Court | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
judgment today dismissing the claim by the campaign against Arms trade | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
for judicial review of decisions revising exporter Saudi Arabia for | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
possible use of the conflict in Yemen. We are grateful to the court | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
for the careful and meticulous way the evidence from both sides has | :06:32. | :06:33. | |
been considered in reaching the judgment. The judgment recognises | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
the rigorous and robust processes we have in place across Government to | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
ensure UK defence exports are licensed consistence with the | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
Government consisted national arms licensing criteria. These criteria | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
give effect to an EU Common position setting out rules for assessing | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
Mapes Arias sports. They were introduced in October 2000 and last | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
updated in 2014. The Consolidated criteria used to assess each | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
exporter licence application cover our international obligations | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
including sanctions, human rights and international humanitarian law, | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
and confidence, national security and the security of our allies, | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
terrorism, risk of diversion and the technical and economic capacity of | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
the recipient country. The claim that challenge decisions not to | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
suspend extant licences for the sale of transfer of arms or military | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
equipment and to continue to grant is new lances for such transfers. | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
The judgment states these decisions were lawful and rational. It | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
describes the Government discussion about export licences as and I | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
quote, highly sophisticated, structured and multifaceted. We note | :07:52. | :07:54. | |
the application to appeal and will continue to defend the decision is | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
challenged. We remain confident that the UK operates one of the most | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
robust export control regimes in the world. The central issue in relation | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
to the defence exports to Saudi Arabia in the context of the | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
conflict in Yemen is criterion to see of the Consolidated EU and | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
national arms licensing criteria. That is that the Government will not | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
grant a licence if there is a clear risk that the items might be used in | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
the commission of a serious violation of international | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
humanitarian law. We have sufficient information to carry out proper | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
risk-based assessment is against criterion to see, the core situation | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
has been kept under close review, and to date we have not refused | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
licences on to see grounds because we have assessed on all the event | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
nation available including information not publicly available, | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
that the clear risk threshold has not been reached. The judgment says | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
that on the evidence we were rationally entitled to conclude this | :08:58. | :09:05. | |
threat has not been reached. The exercise taken to into form these | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
rest than is has in the words of the Government, all the hallmarks of a | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
rigorous and robust multilayered process of analysis, carried out by | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
numerous expert personnel upon which the secretary of state could rely. | :09:20. | :09:27. | |
In addition by considered analysis of humanitarian law, there has been | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
intensive engagement with the Saudis at the highest level, stressing the | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
need to comply with international humanitarian law, to investigate all | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
instances of concern and ensure lessons are learned. Through this | :09:42. | :09:44. | |
engagement and our long-standing relationship with the Saudis, we | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
have developed a higher degree of insight into Saudi military | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
processes and procedures adopted in Yemen and might be expected for a | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
country not party to the conflict. We have also considered public | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
commitments to comply with international humanitarian law made | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
by the Saudis and monitored and analysed development on the ground. | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
Each of these strands takes into account a wide range of sources and | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
analyses including those of a sensitive nature to which other | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
parties such as NGOs and the UN do not have access. Taken together, | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
these strands of information and analysis which are reviewed | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
regularly by the FCO in comprehensive reports to the Foreign | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
Secretary, have enabled ministers to take informed decisions about the | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
overall criterion to see position and individual export licence | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
applications. They provide a sound basis on which the Foreign Secretary | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
is able to advise me on these points. That the assessment has been | :10:45. | :10:51. | |
that the issue of military exports to Saudi Arabia is finally balanced, | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
is seen by the judgment as instructive and points two and again | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
I quote, anxious scrutiny given to the matter and the essential | :11:01. | :11:03. | |
rationality and rigour of the process in which the secretary of | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
state was engaged. And as the judgment states on the basis of this | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
information and analysis we were rationally entitled to conclude | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
Saudi Arabia has put processes in place to secure respect for | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
compliance with international humanitarian law and that Saudi | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
Arabia has been and remains committed to compliance with | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
international humanitarian law. The Saudis have engaged and continue to | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
engage constructively with the UK on these matters. | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
We do not receive this judgment as a signal to do anything other than to | :11:37. | :11:44. | |
take our exports responsibilities very seriously. Our policy is to | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
assess licence applications on a case-by-case basis against the | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
rigorous tests set out in the Consolidated EU and national arms | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
export licensing criteria. We will not grant a licence if to do so | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
would be inconsistent with these criteria. We will continue to keep | :12:00. | :12:06. | |
the situation in Yemen under close scrutiny and base our export | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
licensing assessments on the most up-to-date information and analysis | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
available. If we assess that the clear risk threshold under criterion | :12:14. | :12:22. | |
to see of the Consolidated EU and national licensing criteria has been | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
reached them you will not hesitate to refuse export licences and | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
suspend licences already in circulation. I commend the statement | :12:29. | :12:38. | |
to the House. Thank you. I thank the Secretary of State for his | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
statement. I know he and the whole House will agree that the war in | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
Yemen as each monetary tragedy. Thousands of people the -- | :12:47. | :12:54. | |
humanitarian tragedy. Thousands of people have been at effect through | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
loss of hospitals and water supplies and all of us should do more on | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
that. The question for the High Court was whether we are entitled to | :13:05. | :13:10. | |
conclude that there was no risk British weapons would be used in | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
serious violations of international humanitarian law. Since the bombing | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
of Yemen began, the UK has licensed more than ?3.3 billion worth of arms | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
to the Saudi regime including 2.2 billion pounds worth of licences | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
dealing with aircraft and helicopters. 1.1 billion pounds | :13:30. | :13:38. | |
worth doing with grenades and bombs and countermeasures and ?430,000 | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
worth dealing with armoured vehicles and tanks. The Secretary of State | :13:44. | :13:46. | |
knows that instrument use of air strikes, the destruction of the | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
countries means of food production and the targeting of civilians are | :13:51. | :13:53. | |
all classed as war crimes under international humanitarian law. Does | :13:54. | :14:00. | |
she recall that in January 2016 a United Nations panel of experts | :14:01. | :14:02. | |
reported that Saudi Arabian forces had engaged in widespread and | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
systematic targeting of civilians. Does she recall that in July last | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
year the Government corrected its previous declarations that they had | :14:14. | :14:16. | |
no evidence of any violations and that in September the Foreign | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
Secretary stated in the Government's new position was that they had been | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
unable to make an assessment and that the Saudi authorities are best | :14:24. | :14:29. | |
placed to make such an assessment? Does he accept that the Foreign | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
Secretary was wrong to franchise out our obligation in this way and that | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
we, not the Saudis, have the duty to assess whether there is a risk that | :14:40. | :14:42. | |
British arms sold to the Saudis might be used in contravention? Is | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
she recall that evidence revealed in the High Court in February showed | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
that the civil servant at the head of export control had provided | :14:53. | :14:55. | |
advice to the previous Secretary of State recommending that the UK | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
suspend arms sales to Saudi Arabia given in the gaps in knowledge about | :15:01. | :15:06. | |
Saudi operations? Can he explain to the housewife that recommendation | :15:07. | :15:09. | |
was overruled by the then Secretary of State and sits alongside him? But | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
the Secretary of State at the committee should be set up in this | :15:15. | :15:20. | |
Parliament without delay so that export licensing for arms sales and | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
commander of the necessary parliamentary scrutiny? Does he | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
agree that today's judgment did not seek to whether the Government were | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
correct and concluding that there was no clear risk of a serious | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
breach of international managerial role but rather whether Ensor | :15:36. | :15:41. | |
concluding they had reached a decision which could be considered | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
rational given in the procedures they had adopted and the evidence | :15:47. | :15:53. | |
they had considered? Does he further except that if such procedures | :15:54. | :15:57. | |
themselves were defective or the evidence they had considered | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
insufficient or misleading or not comprehensive, then it follows that | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
the decision, however rational within its own parameters, could be | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
deeply flawed and this country might be at grave risk of violating their | :16:12. | :16:14. | |
obligations in international humanitarian law? The Government | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
relied upon material which brought forward only and closed hearing, | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
evidence which was not able to be seen or heard by the campaign | :16:25. | :16:27. | |
against the Arms trade or their lawyers. The court ruling that the | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
Government 's decision was irrational one given in the | :16:34. | :16:36. | |
procedures and evidence at considered was based on secret | :16:37. | :16:39. | |
evidence which it was impossible to challenge. Does the Secretary of | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
State except that the court 's judgment makes specific reference to | :16:45. | :16:48. | |
the substantial body of evidence is presented in open session that in | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
fact suggests a clear risk does exist that British arms might be | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
used in violation of international monetary and more? Will he agree to | :16:57. | :16:59. | |
make evidence that was available on the enclosed session available to | :17:00. | :17:05. | |
members of this House on Privy Council terms or indeed make it | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
available to the intelligence and security select committee? Does he | :17:11. | :17:12. | |
agree that in mattress review would wish this country not only to adopt | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
the highest ethical standards and controls but also to be seen to | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
adopt them, it would be helpful if he could no reassure the House that | :17:22. | :17:27. | |
is his considered view that not only was the Government rational and | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
adopting the view instead given the procedures it followed and the | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
evidence at considered, but that he personally can give his assurance to | :17:37. | :17:39. | |
this House that there is too has a certain knowledge no risk whatsoever | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
that UK arms make use by Saudi Arabia and Yemen or in any way that | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
might constitute a violation of our obligations and international | :17:51. | :17:58. | |
humanitarian law? Can I say first of all that I agree with the honourable | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
gentleman and Yemen is indeed a humanitarian disaster that is | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
begging for a political social ocean to lead to enable us to carry out | :18:08. | :18:09. | |
without a dramatic efforts and Germanic taking efforts. I doubt | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
anyone would disagree with that. In terms of what he said, he wasn't | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
quite accurate in terms for the court case was about. There were | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
three grounds of challenge. Firstly there to ask the correct questions | :18:24. | :18:30. | |
to make enquiries. Failure to apply the suspension mechanism and a | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
rationally concluding there was no clear risk under criterion 2C. All | :18:35. | :18:36. | |
these grounds have been dismissed by the court. He makes the point about | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
targeting. Can I say to him that the efforts by the MOD have gone to the | :18:43. | :18:49. | |
smallest degree to improve the ability of the Saudis to target more | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
effectively including by training. By UK personnel. That is that one of | :18:54. | :18:56. | |
the biggest advantage is that we have helped the Saudis make on this. | :18:57. | :18:59. | |
He said the United Nations have set out their own reservations about | :19:00. | :19:05. | |
what had happened but as the judgment made very clear, it didn't | :19:06. | :19:08. | |
have all the information, that the judges were able to look at as part | :19:09. | :19:11. | |
of that and 20 said that there were gaps in the Government's knowledge, | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
he's the court made very clear that not only did the Government have the | :19:16. | :19:18. | |
ability to assess what the gaps in the knowledge might have been, they | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
had the appropriate means of addressing that and I remain timid | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
that the criteria that we operate a part of the EU Consolidated | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
criteria, not UK Government unilateral criteria. I take | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
exception with the final point that he made because this idea that | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
somehow if we have closed sessions that makes the judgment less valid, | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
I substitute except because I don't accept this idea that we simply | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
cannot have closed sessions. That particular national security for the | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
personnel involved in a national security, our sources need to be | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
protected. Ellis to the argument he makes but I cannot bring myself to | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
accept it. -- I listened to the argument. At the end of the | :20:03. | :20:09. | |
statement he referred to steps that could be taken if it were found that | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
Saudi Arabia were misusing the arms which we supply. Can I ask you to | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
expand on that, an issue that has come up before any committees for | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
arms export controls? Supposing we supply it consists in Saint of | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
sophisticated weapons for use in one way and it is used in a different | :20:30. | :20:32. | |
way or abused in defiance of the laws of war, what could be rendered | :20:33. | :20:44. | |
to rectify that? As he knows from his experience, there are a number | :20:45. | :20:46. | |
of criteria for refusal is and revocations. If he has not seen the | :20:47. | :20:54. | |
list I will ensure he is sent it and if we believe that we are not able | :20:55. | :21:01. | |
to convince ourselves that we were operating entirely within the | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
Consolidated criteria, we can suspend licences and refuse new ones | :21:07. | :21:09. | |
and as I made clear, if we believe that we are not fully in alignment | :21:10. | :21:20. | |
with those criteria, we would do so. Apologies for my horse voice. -- | :21:21. | :21:33. | |
horse voice. Amnesty International believes UK and US weapons have been | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
used against Yemeni civilian is. 10,000 civilians have been killed | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
and 3 million displaced. Today's judgment raises questions and be | :21:44. | :21:47. | |
paid tribute to the campaign against Arms trade love taking the | :21:48. | :21:49. | |
Government to court and force them to explain themselves. We have | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
knowledge they plan to appeal but the UK Government should be coming | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
to this House with all the facts at all times, but having to be dragged | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
through the courts for the public to get a full explanation so does he | :22:03. | :22:04. | |
accept that it cannot be beneficial of the public loses confidence in | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
the Government over its solution ship with the supposed ally? One | :22:09. | :22:15. | |
which is infrequent breach of its international humanitarian law and | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
Yemen? Let's not forget that Saudi Arabia, UK's largest weapons client | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
has bought more than ?3 billion worth of British arms and the last | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
two years. UK and EU arms sales rules that state export licences | :22:28. | :22:30. | |
cannot be granted if there is not a clear risk that the equipment can be | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
used in breach of international humanitarian law. He says that he | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
takes it very seriously and he will know that our former colleague Angus | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
Robertson was strong advocate for the re-establish that of the | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
committee on arms export control. UK Government promised before the | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
election it would be reconvened. Can I ask the Secretary of State when | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
will that committee take place, when will its first meeting happen and | :22:59. | :23:01. | |
can he give us categorical assurances that the election does | :23:02. | :23:03. | |
not mean that such an important committee will be kicked into the | :23:04. | :23:16. | |
long grass? As the judgment itself set out, the case focused on the air | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
strikes conducted by a coalition led by Saudi Arabia and support of the | :23:22. | :23:23. | |
legitimate Government of Yemen against the rebellion so we need to | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
put on record that that is the origin of the conflict. Of course | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
the humanitarian issues and Yemen are deeply troubling to all of us, | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
we have all seen the pictures and the United Kingdom through our | :23:38. | :23:39. | |
various agencies and Government departments have been fulfilling as | :23:40. | :23:42. | |
much of our diplomatic and you manage union actions as we can and | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
the circumstances. It will only be brought to an end by a political | :23:48. | :23:51. | |
settlement, not a military one. She talks about the clear risk test, the | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
judgment could not have been clearer that the Government admitted the | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
clear risk test of criterion 2C in the way the Government has carried | :24:01. | :24:02. | |
this out. On her point about the committee on Arms exports, I have | :24:03. | :24:08. | |
absolutely no objections to such a committee being set up in fact I | :24:09. | :24:11. | |
think it is beneficial to us to ensure at all times the highest | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
reputation of our property in these matters and I would have absolutely | :24:17. | :24:19. | |
no objection to such a committee being in place. Does the Secretary | :24:20. | :24:27. | |
of State agree with me that the detail of this judgment actually | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
makes it clear just what a great job as civil servants and other civil | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
servants and officials in both MOD and the Foreign Office have done any | :24:37. | :24:39. | |
rigorous way they have gone about their responsibilities so that the | :24:40. | :24:46. | |
judgment can then say that they were highly sophisticated structures and | :24:47. | :24:48. | |
multifaceted and it deserves congratulations? | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
I don't think the judgment could have been more unequivocal, and I am | :24:53. | :24:59. | |
very grateful for his comments. We have been utterly rigorous in the | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
process. The work between the FCO and the MoD and the de-IT has been | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
extremely close. Our officials have done a wonderful job. I'm not sure | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
they appreciated the number of letters necessary that went between | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
is to ensure the process works as tightly as it has, but I am sure | :25:17. | :25:19. | |
they will all feel totally vindicated by the judgment and in | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
the way they have carried out their duties on behalf of this country's | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
international duties and law. Can I welcome the judgment and say it | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
demonstrates how robust the Arms export control act of 2002 | :25:32. | :25:34. | |
introduced by the Labour Government is. It also supports hard-working | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
defence workers in our defence industry. In the judgment, it says | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
the coalition would not targeting civilians and Saudis have procedures | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
to abide by the principles of international humanitarian law. In | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
light of that can the union should make representations of the Saudis | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
to publish their own enquiries ins to the stars? I thank him for his | :25:59. | :26:06. | |
comments. We do as I said have I think the most robust system in | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
place on defence exports that exists. And we have been very clear | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
with the Saudis that they have to carry out investigations into some | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
of the incidents he mentioned and they had to make that clear to the | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
United Kingdom Government and that we had to be very clear if we were | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
to license further defence exports that those lessons had been learned | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
and that mechanisms have been put in place to ensure they would not | :26:33. | :26:38. | |
happen again. Given the High Court has today found the Government has | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
been meticulous in its export licensing processes, could he | :26:44. | :26:45. | |
perhaps inform the house how much the court case will cost the | :26:46. | :26:53. | |
taxpayer in legal fees? I hesitate a little because there may well be an | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
appeal and we may not yet be at the end of the legal process. But to | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
date the case has cost the UK taxpayers somewhat in excess of | :27:03. | :27:12. | |
?600,000. The secretary of state and the Government may have won the | :27:13. | :27:15. | |
legal skirmish but they have not won the moral case and there are still | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
many unanswered questions about the relationship here and the terrible | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
situation we see in Yemen. The Secretary of State says he was | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
confident but on the other hand the court judgment makes it clear he was | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
anxious. He knows he wrote to the Foreign Secretary saying he was | :27:31. | :27:33. | |
concerned that it continue to be finely balanced and he asked they | :27:34. | :27:40. | |
commissioned a further investigation and seek advice from lawyers. Why | :27:41. | :27:44. | |
was he anxious? Was it the civilian deaths,? The use of cluster bombs, | :27:45. | :27:53. | |
all the attacks on humanitarian supplies including water and | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
medication? I know he takes a close interest in this but I would not | :27:59. | :28:05. | |
describe today's landmark case as a skirmish and I think everyone in the | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
house would be advised to read the full judgment. It is my job to be | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
anxious about these things. It is my job to give the nth degree of | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
scrutiny because lives are potentially being lost if we give | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
the wrong judgments. It is the judgment of myself, the Foreign | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
Secretary and other senior ministers that gives us such anxiety. Were we | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
to be cavalier he would be absolutely right to criticise us. | :28:32. | :28:34. | |
When we take the nth degree of care about the judgments we make, as | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
previous governments have done, he ought to be grateful that we are | :28:39. | :28:45. | |
doing so. I welcome my friend's statement as it comes from an | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
independent judiciary and underscores the robustness of the | :28:50. | :28:52. | |
assessment of the export licence applications. He will be aware that | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
Saudi Arabia is going through self authored and hugely welcome | :28:59. | :29:01. | |
modernisation and change. Can he assure me that these changes within | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
the kingdom will be taken into account when considering future | :29:06. | :29:11. | |
export licence applications to our strong and reliable ally in the | :29:12. | :29:16. | |
Middle East? We take all of this information into account when coming | :29:17. | :29:19. | |
to a judgment. We look across what is happening from the information we | :29:20. | :29:25. | |
have from the FCO, the MOD, my department, we will put all this | :29:26. | :29:28. | |
picture together before we come to judgment. I think we can hardly be | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
accused of spending too much time and looking at too much evidence in | :29:33. | :29:35. | |
order to come to the right conclusion. Of course we accept the | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
guy judgment of the court because we accept the rule of law in this | :29:42. | :29:47. | |
country. However, how does this help the Yemeni people? So far 10,000 | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
people have died, 14 million people have been displaced and 200,000 | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
people are suffering from cholera. He is a former Foreign Minister, | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
former Defence Secretary, could he after this statement go back to the | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
Foreign Office and get everyone back at the negotiating table? Please? | :30:06. | :30:16. | |
This Government are leaving no stone unturned to try to get the peace | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
process driven forward. We have had so many attempts to try to do so. | :30:21. | :30:27. | |
And it is in all our interests to stop what is a dreadful humanitarian | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
disaster. He is absolutely right, the parties need to understand that | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
it cannot be solved by a purely military solution. It has to be a | :30:38. | :30:44. | |
political solution. Can I also welcome today's landmark ruling on | :30:45. | :30:50. | |
what was a very difficult case. Tens of thousands of defence workers, | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
many in my constituency, whose job depends on the deals that are done. | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
Can he assure me we will do is continue to work with the Saudis to | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
ensure accurate targeting and also robust and sales? Of course we will | :31:02. | :31:08. | |
continue to work with the Saudis to get an improvement in the position | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
to make sure any decisions we take our within the criteria. He is right | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
that a lot of jobs in this country depend on our defence industry. And | :31:17. | :31:22. | |
whether campaigns such as the campaigns against the Arms trade to | :31:23. | :31:25. | |
be successful it would mean there would be a rapid proliferation of | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
new defence companies trying to set up around the world. They would | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
actually be less control over proliferation rather than more. | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
Parliamentary scrutiny of arms exports is necessary. May I welcome | :31:40. | :31:43. | |
what he said in response to challenges on arms export controls, | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
it is vitally important they are established soon. Can I also asked | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
the Government to look again at the question of independent UN led | :31:53. | :31:58. | |
investigation into all alleged humanitarian law of the conflict? We | :31:59. | :32:05. | |
have never had any objection to an independent UN enquiry. Part of the | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
trouble was set out in the judgment itself, which is the availability of | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
evidence. Especially in open session, that I'd be available to | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
such an enquiry. That is why I think when members read the full judgment | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
they will see why there is such significance to this particularly | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
judgment, but I am open-minded about any future UN enquiry. Instances | :32:27. | :32:34. | |
have been refused. There are a number of different criteria and | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
they are assessed on a regular basis. There were 366 refusals or | :32:38. | :32:45. | |
revocations in 2016. They are set out in a number of eight different | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
categories. Of refusals and revocations. Additive is helpful I | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
shall make a copy available in the library if it is not there already. | :32:55. | :33:01. | |
Can the secretary of state confirmed that this judgment does not confirm | :33:02. | :33:06. | |
there was no risk of IHL breaches in the Yemen, that the judge | :33:07. | :33:09. | |
acknowledged significant evidence which submits just there was a risk | :33:10. | :33:15. | |
or is and it remains a risk the UK Government is heavily dependent on | :33:16. | :33:17. | |
Saudi guarantees that they are not targeting civilians? It is | :33:18. | :33:27. | |
impossible to sell anybody to anything, anything to anybody, that | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
has no risk attached. That is why we have a clear risk test in the | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
Consolidated criteria. And we are in close touch to a degree I have never | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
known before with a country that is party to a military dispute in terms | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
of seeing how they do their targeting, understanding their | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
methods, and their information, and we have been very close in helping | :33:49. | :33:51. | |
to instruct them in ways that will minimise visual and counselled | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
season future. I have had the opportunity of travelling to Saudi | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
Arabia and visiting the targeting Centre in Riyadh where targets in | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
Yemen are allocated. Would he agree with me that as well as exporting | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
hardware we also export a doctrine of responsible use that at the end | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
of the day saves lives? I would entirely agree. It is not just the | :34:16. | :34:22. | |
doctrine that we export it is the professional expertise and training | :34:23. | :34:25. | |
which can help turn that doctrine into effect. Medicine some frontier | :34:26. | :34:40. | |
say Yemenis are free to go to the cholera treatment centre. Jeered | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
declared this was an unintentional mistake along with facilities | :34:47. | :34:53. | |
elsewhere. All of these were hit by Saudi bombs. How many hospitals | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
protected by international humanitarian law will the secretary | :34:58. | :35:00. | |
of state allow to be hit by Saudi Arabia before he stopped selling | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
them bombs? The Honourable lady talks as though there is only one | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
party in this particular dispute in this part of the world, and | :35:10. | :35:18. | |
unfortunately it is not. We take the absolute the queer risk criteria | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
very seriously but I'm afraid making the sort of uninformed point she | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
does for propaganda purposes does not help the humanitarian situation. | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
Would he agree with me that amongst our many security objectives and | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
values, keeping faith with important allies and being a reliable security | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
partner should be among the most important and so our allies today | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
can see we take these important decisions rigorously, with due | :35:48. | :35:49. | |
process which they deserve, and under the rule of law? He is right. | :35:50. | :35:57. | |
Protection of our allies and working with them is extremely important. | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
But it is almost important that they had themselves understand we will | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
rigorously apply the criteria that we have set out and been party to | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
international agreement for. I think getting the balance right between | :36:11. | :36:13. | |
those things is exactly what the Government has sought to achieve. | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
Will the secretary of state please enlighten us as to why he does not | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
take more notice of the foreign and Commonwealth offices reports into | :36:24. | :36:25. | |
countries of concern for human and repression? Perhaps we are talking | :36:26. | :36:34. | |
about a different judgment, because the judgment makes very clear that | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
we did take very clear account of the advice given by the Foreign | :36:40. | :36:42. | |
Office and indeed sought further advice from the Foreign Office when | :36:43. | :36:50. | |
it was necessary. Does he agree that closed sessions are absolutely | :36:51. | :36:52. | |
standard in litigation of this nature and it is nature wrong to | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
seek to undermine a clear and impartial ruling of the High Court | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
which confirms the rigorous and detailed scrutiny. I think there is | :37:00. | :37:06. | |
a danger in making that sort of attack on the court system. Not | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
least because secret or classified evidence was open to challenge by | :37:13. | :37:15. | |
the special advocates representing the claimants in this case. The | :37:16. | :37:21. | |
Secretary of State will be aware of reports by the BBC and Danish | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
newspapers in relation to the sale of surveillance and decryption | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
technology to Saudi Arabia by British companies via Danish subsidy | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
Aries. This has been used to crush internal dissent and has a potential | :37:35. | :37:41. | |
impact on UK security. Will they be reviewing legislation and oversight | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
procedures governing sales of this data? If any individual or gaunt | :37:45. | :37:52. | |
organisation has evidence they believe quite clearly illustrates | :37:53. | :37:55. | |
wrongdoing they should bring it to the attention of the Government in | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
detail. Could this judgment we have heard today shows the UK is very | :38:01. | :38:06. | |
robust in its licensing criteria but in light of this decision could he | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
reassures the house that under decision decisions to grant such | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
licences are and occasion and indication humanitarian law? The | :38:16. | :38:24. | |
judgment makes clear it is the case. I think that those who criticise the | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
UK system should look to see how robust we are in comparison to other | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
countries. I think it would do everybody in this country good to | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
recognise how robust and clear we are in the decisions we make and how | :38:39. | :38:45. | |
transparent we are in their contact. The secretary of state rightly draws | :38:46. | :38:52. | |
attention to the robust nature of the wording in the document produced | :38:53. | :38:58. | |
by the courts. Does he agree that because this judgment relates to a | :38:59. | :39:06. | |
decision under the EU consolidation criteria that it will be extremely | :39:07. | :39:13. | |
important that in future we continue to maintain control of arms exports | :39:14. | :39:18. | |
at least as strong as under the existing EU Consolidated criteria? | :39:19. | :39:25. | |
It is slightly worrying to me how often I do agree with the honourable | :39:26. | :39:28. | |
gentleman, and I find myself doing so again today. It is not what the | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
criteria are called, it is what they contain that matters. And the | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
content has clearly stood the rigour of scrutiny by the court today and I | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
completely agree with him that it would be wayward to say the least | :39:45. | :39:48. | |
for any Government to consider criteria that were any less rigorous | :39:49. | :39:51. | |
than the ones we have today. He doesn't look worried at all. He | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
looks in a state of high contentment. Anyone would think that | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
Christmas had come early. But I suppose it is always good when | :40:01. | :40:01. | |
people agree with one. Could she tell you House that the | :40:02. | :40:13. | |
High Court had before it all the information needed in order to reach | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
the judgment? That was very much the view of the court. Could I ask if he | :40:18. | :40:26. | |
continues to promote the sale of arms to Saudi Arabia what regard | :40:27. | :40:29. | |
this Government has today factor for hundred and 57 people were executed | :40:30. | :40:32. | |
there last year including minors and four young men arrested as minus | :40:33. | :40:41. | |
remain at imminent risk of execution by crucifixion? By our engagement | :40:42. | :40:49. | |
with Saudi Arabia be able to raise any reservations that we have about | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
international humanitarian law or human rights which we do. At the | :40:54. | :41:01. | |
last Parliament urged to quit some period of time for the committee on | :41:02. | :41:04. | |
Arms export controls to be set up. Will my friend speak to the Leader | :41:05. | :41:12. | |
of the House speak to the two C of this committee can be set up as | :41:13. | :41:19. | |
quickly as possible? The usual channels will have heard the view, I | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
have no objection to be such a committee being in place, it is a | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
balanced judgment as to whether we have such a committee or not but as | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
I have said any committee looking into the property decision of | :41:34. | :41:35. | |
ministers should be welcomed by ministers as well as the House as a | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
whole. In 2013 in the Government launched its plan on business human | :41:42. | :41:48. | |
rights to great fanfare but subsequent questions revealed that | :41:49. | :41:50. | |
appears to be little more than a piece of paper. Not an action plan. | :41:51. | :41:56. | |
How does that suppose it action plan and former business Roshan ship with | :41:57. | :41:59. | |
Saudi Arabia and how will it going forward? It will not be affected by | :42:00. | :42:06. | |
this judgment because it said that the Government was carrying out a | :42:07. | :42:12. | |
rigorous and responsible and rational view of the decisions on | :42:13. | :42:15. | |
defence exports. I would have thought that the House might have | :42:16. | :42:18. | |
been pleased that our systems are working so clearly and transparently | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
well. I visited Saudi Arabia as part of a cross-party delegation in April | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
and have declared this in the register. It is quite right that | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
arms exports are subject to legal challenge and everyone agrees about | :42:33. | :42:40. | |
the material crisis and Yemen but I was surprised to learn that 65,000 | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
shells and rockets have been fired from Yemen and Saudi Arabia, that | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
there have been civilian deaths and injuries and Saudi Arabia, civilians | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
have been evacuated and displaced and hospitals damaged all and Saudi | :42:55. | :42:57. | |
Arabia. Would you welcome more balanced coverage of this | :42:58. | :43:05. | |
distressing conflict? He makes a very important point that this was | :43:06. | :43:13. | |
not a conflict that Saudi Arabia or the coalition sought and they have a | :43:14. | :43:16. | |
legitimate right of self-defence and they have a legitimate right to | :43:17. | :43:19. | |
acquire the means of conducting that self defence. It is quite clear that | :43:20. | :43:26. | |
this is a bloody and brutal conflict and it requires a proper political | :43:27. | :43:33. | |
settlement and to continue with humanitarian and automatic efforts | :43:34. | :43:36. | |
and he is right that we could not do any harm to have a little more | :43:37. | :43:43. | |
objective than simply a one-sided blast that we have seen rather too | :43:44. | :43:51. | |
often in this House and elsewhere. Today's judgment was unequivocal. | :43:52. | :43:54. | |
Really Government has failed as an advancing the peace process and | :43:55. | :43:56. | |
Yemen and that includes Saudi Arabia. When will we see the | :43:57. | :44:03. | |
Government make progress on a peace settlement for that country? This | :44:04. | :44:09. | |
Government is doing all it can to help take that process forward. | :44:10. | :44:15. | |
Where it is so simple that we could simply unilaterally create a | :44:16. | :44:18. | |
solution in that walk on part of the world. We are doing what we can to | :44:19. | :44:22. | |
help our allies reached a settlement and we will continue to do so. It is | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
easy monetary disaster but we sadly don't have it unilaterally in our | :44:28. | :44:33. | |
power to bring it to an end. -- humanitarian disaster. I will take | :44:34. | :44:41. | |
the points of order no because there are many of them. The two honourable | :44:42. | :44:53. | |
gentleman can wait. On a point of order, during the most recent | :44:54. | :45:00. | |
business energy and industrial strategy questions, I raised the | :45:01. | :45:03. | |
case of local employers misleading workers about the rights to holiday | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
pay. I was assured that the Government have increased the power | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
is open to Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs to enforce those rights. I | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
have received a written answer from the same minister stating that HM | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
Revenue and Customs has no powers to sanction companies from uploading | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
holiday pay. The Minister has given me to Asda is stating the complete | :45:28. | :45:30. | |
opposite and the space of a few days. Clearly one or other of those | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
answers must be wrong and double I am not out of the new to this place | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
I was given to understand that ministers were a particular | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
obligation not to mislead the House even if inadvertently. More | :45:45. | :45:46. | |
importantly this leaves us unable to say for certain what the Government | :45:47. | :45:50. | |
is actually going to do about the problem I raised. Can you advise me | :45:51. | :45:53. | |
whether there is any way to bring the minister back to the House to | :45:54. | :45:56. | |
tell us which of her answers as final? And grateful for the point of | :45:57. | :46:04. | |
order and courtesy in giving me advance notice of it. There was also | :46:05. | :46:10. | |
exceptionally helpful to attach to her proposed point of order the text | :46:11. | :46:20. | |
of those two answers. I must say that textual exegesis is of the | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
essence in these matters. I have pored over the two answers and | :46:25. | :46:27. | |
sought to reflect on whether they might in some way be not | :46:28. | :46:35. | |
incompatible with each other. But such a conclusion is beyond my | :46:36. | :46:41. | |
limited intellectual capacities. It certainly appears that the two | :46:42. | :46:44. | |
answers are echoes of reconcilable. One must be correct and therefore | :46:45. | :46:50. | |
one must not be. It is quit difficult to see how one can | :46:51. | :46:53. | |
increase power is open to her HMO see if in fact we have no such | :46:54. | :47:01. | |
powers at all. We mattered as I think require some clarification. | :47:02. | :47:04. | |
The honourable lady has made her concern clear. The content of | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
answers is not a matter for the chair but our concern has been | :47:10. | :47:12. | |
conveyed to the Minister in the sense that the presenters of the | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
Treasury bench will have heard it at her point will be recorded in the | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
official report. If the Minister considers that she has | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
unintentionally misled the House I'm sure she will take steps to put the | :47:27. | :47:32. | |
record straight. I advise on the honourable lady to watch this space | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
and see whether such an attempt at corrective action is made. If it is, | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
she will be happy. If it isn't, my advice to her would be to become to | :47:43. | :47:45. | |
the matter through further questioning or possibly if necessary | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
in extremists by a recourse to the chair. Given the importance of | :47:51. | :48:04. | |
parliamentary scrutiny on arms export controls, would you believe | :48:05. | :48:10. | |
there is anything preventing the committees on arms export controls | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
or other committees to be able to review and look at classified | :48:16. | :48:18. | |
information that was relevant to these matters provided that the | :48:19. | :48:20. | |
necessary security clearances were obtained? Wouldn't be anything | :48:21. | :48:29. | |
preventing that? I would say that the only thing I can imagine of the | :48:30. | :48:34. | |
top of my head that would prevent that would be a Government refusal | :48:35. | :48:42. | |
to divulge the information on the grounds that it was classified ad | :48:43. | :48:46. | |
that the relative department or agency didn't think such site by the | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
committee was necessary or desirable. Otherwise there is | :48:52. | :48:58. | |
nothing to prevent it. If such a committee were to seek it, it might | :48:59. | :49:06. | |
find that its search was successful. If it had anything to do with the | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
prodigious efforts of the honourable gentleman, I'm sure it would have a | :49:11. | :49:12. | |
very good chance of being successful. I hope that'll do for no | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
because that is the best answer I can offer. During the statements | :49:18. | :49:24. | |
just now, there were strong cross-party support for the | :49:25. | :49:26. | |
re-establishment of the committees on arms export controls. In the | :49:27. | :49:29. | |
previous parliament that committee ceased to meet because one of its | :49:30. | :49:35. | |
component select committees voted to unilaterally leave the committee. | :49:36. | :49:38. | |
Can I ask you to use your good offices to ensure that what both the | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
Secretary of State and Shadow Secretary and SNP spokesperson said | :49:43. | :49:44. | |
during the statement is fulfilled and we re-establish the committees | :49:45. | :49:51. | |
as as soon as possible? It would be desirable for Parliament and for the | :49:52. | :49:58. | |
scrutiny of the executive branch by Parliament for that committee to be | :49:59. | :50:02. | |
re-established sooner rather than later. The word of caution caveat | :50:03. | :50:12. | |
that I insert which you will appreciate is that unless I am much | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
mistaken, that committee can be established only when what might be | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
called the feeder or constituent committees have themselves been | :50:22. | :50:27. | |
established. That requires, I must say to you, not merely the election | :50:28. | :50:35. | |
of the chair is of those committees which is due to take place on | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
Wednesday of this week, but the election by such methods as they has | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
adopted by the respective parties of their member contingent on those | :50:46. | :50:54. | |
committees. I have not been given much encouragement to think that | :50:55. | :50:59. | |
those committees will be fully constituted by the time of the | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
summer recess though I must say to the honourable gentleman that it | :51:05. | :51:08. | |
would be perfectly possible fully to constitute all of the select | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
committees by the time of the summer recess if there were a proper will | :51:14. | :51:19. | |
to do so. If it were the case that none of the constituent political | :51:20. | :51:23. | |
parties was interested in getting its act together, but I think would | :51:24. | :51:26. | |
reflect very badly on them to be frank. The issue is not the interest | :51:27. | :51:33. | |
of the party but the interest of Parliament. Never transpired that | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
some parties were ready to elect their members to those committees | :51:38. | :51:40. | |
and other parties were not, that would look very bad for the parties | :51:41. | :51:45. | |
that were not ready. They have a responsibility in this matter and I | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
don't wish to say this and kindly but it is absolutely natural that | :51:51. | :52:01. | |
the seal and enthusiasm to establish the it site committees scrutinise | :52:02. | :52:05. | |
the executive branch are never as obvious within the executive branch | :52:06. | :52:11. | |
as they are within Parliament. As Speaker, I am concerned about | :52:12. | :52:17. | |
Parliament exercising its rates and Parliament doing its duty. I would | :52:18. | :52:23. | |
rather hope that to put it bluntly, instead of faffing around, we could | :52:24. | :52:30. | |
get on with this matter. Further to that point of order, in defence of | :52:31. | :52:35. | |
the former Foreign Affairs Committee, it must be said that I | :52:36. | :52:39. | |
think the reason for their withdrawal from the committees on | :52:40. | :52:42. | |
arms export controls was the unauthorised leaking of a draft | :52:43. | :52:48. | |
report so it was a more compact situation than was first suggested. | :52:49. | :52:58. | |
Is there anyway reverting to the question, given that they understand | :52:59. | :53:02. | |
the need to 22 committee hasn't held its elections and it would normally | :53:03. | :53:08. | |
handle the election of ordinary members to the select committees, is | :53:09. | :53:12. | |
there anyway that the resources of the House might be involved in some | :53:13. | :53:16. | |
way in assisting this process to get underway more quickly in the absence | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
of the election of members of the executive of the need to 22 | :53:22. | :53:28. | |
committee to a minister? I would quibble with your first point, I | :53:29. | :53:35. | |
don't want to enter into the dispute about what caused the ceasing to | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
operate that committee. I simply note what he said. So far as the | :53:40. | :53:45. | |
second point is concerned, I note that he used the word the offices of | :53:46. | :53:54. | |
the 1922 normally handle the election of members. To put it | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
bluntly, but the officers of the 1922 committee usually do in respect | :54:01. | :54:06. | |
of their party is to put it very simply to oversee the count. As to | :54:07. | :54:16. | |
whether the officers of the 1922 committee of our elected, that is a | :54:17. | :54:23. | |
party matter. Overseeing the count does not require the qualities of | :54:24. | :54:26. | |
Einstein. It is a pretty prosaic task. I don't think it would be | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
great to see that the resources of the House can be made available and | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
what is essentially the oversight of the matter undertaken by parties. | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
However it seems to me perfectly feasible of my colleagues were so | :54:42. | :54:47. | |
willing that the Deputy speakers and I could volunteer services to | :54:48. | :54:50. | |
oversee the count of the House thought that that was helpful. My | :54:51. | :54:55. | |
basic point I think stands, do colleagues want these committees to | :54:56. | :55:00. | |
be set up sooner rather than later? If they don't that is a pity but if | :55:01. | :55:03. | |
they do within those of us who are of good will and can be relied upon | :55:04. | :55:07. | |
to conduct the count perfect family would I suspect be very happy to | :55:08. | :55:11. | |
offer our services. I can hardly be more explicit. I think Google leave | :55:12. | :55:23. | |
it there for now. If there are no further points of order, we will | :55:24. | :55:28. | |
note move on and specifically I want to call Diana Johnson to make an | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
application for leave to propose a debate on a specific and important | :55:34. | :55:36. | |
matter that should have urgent consideration under the terms of | :55:37. | :55:40. | |
standing order number 24. The honourable member has to three | :55:41. | :55:43. | |
minutes in which to make such an application. | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
I seek leave to propose that the House should debate a specific and | :55:48. | :55:53. | |
important matter that should have urgent consideration, namely the | :55:54. | :55:57. | |
need for the Government to establish an independent public inquiry into | :55:58. | :56:01. | |
being contaminated blood scandal, the worst treatment disaster in | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
history of the NHS. In his valedictory speech to this House on | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
the 25th of April 2017, B then Honourable member for Lee outlined a | :56:10. | :56:15. | |
dossier of extremely serious allegations amounting to criminal | :56:16. | :56:18. | |
conduct on the part of individuals involved in the contaminated blood | :56:19. | :56:22. | |
scandal. He says that if the Government did not commit to a | :56:23. | :56:27. | |
public inquiry before the summer recess, he was referred as evidence | :56:28. | :56:31. | |
to the police. But then Parliamentary Under-Secretary of | :56:32. | :56:34. | |
State for health asked him to submit his dossier of evidence to the | :56:35. | :56:37. | |
Health Secretary which he did. She assured the House that this would be | :56:38. | :56:43. | |
given the highest priority. However, we have heard nothing since then. | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
And we now have further unanswered questions which underlined the need | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
for an emergency debate. Best of all, last week, the Daily Mail set | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
out evidence that as early as 1980, officials knew that 50 people with | :56:57. | :57:00. | |
haemophilia per year were being infected with hepatitis C. Nothing | :57:01. | :57:04. | |
was done about this for five years. Secondly, as reported in the Sunday | :57:05. | :57:09. | |
Times, on Friday the 7th of July, the Westminster readers of all six | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
non-government parties in the House of Commons, including the Democratic | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
Unionist Party, wrote a joint letter to be Prime Minister urging her to | :57:19. | :57:22. | |
commit to a Hillsborough style inquiry and thirdly yesterday, the | :57:23. | :57:25. | |
Right Honourable Andy Burnham reaffirmed his commitment to take | :57:26. | :57:32. | |
alleged criminality cases to the police confirmed he has an | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
appointment on the 26th of July with the police. We are now fast | :57:37. | :57:39. | |
approaching the summer recess airline, yet what little comments | :57:40. | :57:41. | |
the Government has made is only adding to the confusion and | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
strengthening the case for this emergency debate application. It | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
would appear that the Secretary of State for Health has not considered | :57:50. | :57:52. | |
the dossier as promised on the 25th of April. And last week, but the | :57:53. | :57:57. | |
Prime Minister and a Leader of the House of Commons responded to | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
questions about scandals, one for myself and the other from my right | :58:03. | :58:04. | |
honourable friend the member for Newport East, yet neither address | :58:05. | :58:07. | |
the direct question about the need for a public inquiry. Indeed, both | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
raised further confusion by referring to the financial support | :58:12. | :58:17. | |
for those affecting as compensation, contradicting the position taken by | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
previous ministers. Mr Speaker, please recent developments have been | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
extremely significant. The letter of the 7th of July raises the prospect | :58:28. | :58:31. | |
that if this matter, the matter of a public inquiry, were to be put to a | :58:32. | :58:35. | |
vote in this House, it would command the support of the majority of | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
members of Parliament. For all the reasons I have outlined, I believe | :58:40. | :58:43. | |
that we now need an emergency debate and for the Government to do the | :58:44. | :58:46. | |
right thing and secure justice for those affected in this scandal, | :58:47. | :58:52. | |
including justice by the 2400 people who have already died. Here, here. I | :58:53. | :59:01. | |
have listened carefully to the application from the honourable | :59:02. | :59:04. | |
member and I am satisfied that their matter raised by her is proper to be | :59:05. | :59:08. | |
discussed under the terms of standing order number 24. Has the | :59:09. | :59:12. | |
honourable member the leave of the House? The honourable member has | :59:13. | :59:24. | |
obtained the leave of the House. I can inform the House that the debate | :59:25. | :59:27. | |
will be held... Thank you! Thank you very much. I can inform the House | :59:28. | :59:33. | |
that the debate will be held tomorrow, Tuesday the 11th of July, | :59:34. | :59:37. | |
as the first item of public business. The debate... Excuse me | :59:38. | :59:44. | |
the debate, colleagues, will last for up the hours and will arise on | :59:45. | :59:49. | |
emotion that the House has considered the specified manner set | :59:50. | :59:53. | |
out in the honourable member's application. She may wish to liaise | :59:54. | :59:56. | |
either with my office or at the Clark says that the precise wording, | :59:57. | :00:01. | |
but I think was referenced in her initial application to me and it | :00:02. | :00:07. | |
conveys the gravel and of the issue in terms that are unmistakable. So I | :00:08. | :00:10. | |
hope that is helpful to the honourable member and the House | :00:11. | :00:16. | |
which has a little under 24 hours, or 24 about hours' notice. Perhaps a | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
bit less than that, but anyway, it has notice of the intended debate. | :00:21. | :00:29. | |
Thank you. The clerk will now proceed to read the orders of the | :00:30. | :00:35. | |
day. Telecommunications infrastructure, nondomestic rates | :00:36. | :00:42. | |
bill second reading. Now. Thank you. To move the second reading of the | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
bill, I called the Minister of State, Minister Matt Hancock. Thank | :00:49. | :00:55. | |
you very much, Mr Ziegler. I bid to move that the bill now be ready | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
second time. Mr Speaker, we all know in this House of the importance of | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
being connected whether through traditional means or increasingly | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
through digital connections. Whether the next generation of broadband | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
technology, better mobile phone coverage, or preparing for the next | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
generation of five G. And this bill is all about improved connectivity | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
whether over fixed networks in the ground or using the Next Generation | :01:20. | :01:26. | |
of mobile and wireless connectivity. What people care about is how | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
well-connected they are. Your download speeds, upload speeds, | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
reliability, latency and how quickly you get reconnected when there is a | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
problem. It's a problem, Madam Deputy Speaker, that we can all | :01:39. | :01:43. | |
identify with and if I may say so, it is a great pleasure to see you in | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
the chair for the first time I have been at this dispatch box. Our task | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
is to prepare for a world of considerably greater demand for | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
digital connectivity and just as Moore 's law states that the cost of | :01:56. | :02:01. | |
computing Hafeez year, so Nielsen's law has seen the doubling of data | :02:02. | :02:07. | |
demands every two as world-class collectivity is important for people | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
to function in the modern world, whether that be at work or at play. | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
And it will continue to transform our public services and bring | :02:17. | :02:18. | |
efficiency is important for people to function in the modern world, | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
whether that be at work or at play. And it will continue to transform | :02:22. | :02:23. | |
our public services and bring efficiencies there the challenge is | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
always to stay one step ahead of needs. We need the digital of a | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
structure that can support this, providing ubiquitous coverage so | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
that no one is left out. With sufficient capacity to ensure data | :02:36. | :02:38. | |
can flow at the volume, with the speed and with the reliability to | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
meet the demands of modern life. All these connections rely on Britain | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
laying more fibre-optic cable, whether that is the fibre all the | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
way to the premise or to each home and to ease business or the fibre | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
underpinning the mobile network, all modern collectivity runs off a | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
fiver. Around five years ago, we took a strategic decision as a | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
nation to roll out high-speed broadband based largely on eight | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
part five are part of what copper network and superfast broadband | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
delivered in this way is now available to 93% of UK homes and | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
businesses and we rank amongst the Mac first amongst the big European | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
states for superfast connections on track to reach 95% by the end of | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
this year. In discussing this, may I pay tribute to my right honourable | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
friend the member for Wantage, who did so much and never let me forget! | :03:35. | :03:46. | |
How much he did to deliver first-rate, high-quality, superfast | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
broadband connectivity to homes and businesses around the country that | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
now allows us to say that 93% have access to, but not necessarily all | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
take up, superfast broadband. I will give way. I thank the Right | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
Honourable does never been so quick to give an intervention but may I | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
suggest he is a little paint is glossy and positive in his approach | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
because I think we have received a number of complaints and yet the | :04:12. | :04:14. | |
grin on his face suggests quite the opposite. That was me talking about | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
what we have done so far. Wait until I talk about what we need to do in | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
the future. I agree very strongly with heard that there is much more | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
that we need to do. I will come onto that because that is what the bulk | :04:28. | :04:30. | |
of the speech is all about and indeed, that's what this bill is all | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
about and if she caught the view that she espouses, I look forward to | :04:35. | :04:36. | |
her marching through the division lobbies and support later. Precisely | :04:37. | :04:44. | |
on the point she raises, of course, 7% of people don't yet have access | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
to superfast connections or 7% of premises, I should say. And so we | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
are introducing the new broadband universal service obligation so that | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
by 2020, everyone has the access to a minimum level of service. This | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
will provide a vital safety net and make sure that nobody is left behind | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
as the country takes these strides towards better connectivity. Yet | :05:08. | :05:14. | |
even this isn't enough. Demand marches on. People's needs and | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
expectations have risen further and will continue to keep on rising. So | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
we need to, yes, celebrate what we have done so far but also deliver | :05:25. | :05:30. | |
deeper connectivity now and in the future to support a competitive | :05:31. | :05:32. | |
market and to make sure that we get this infrastructure in the ground. | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
We must work now to deliver the next generation of technologies, 5G and | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
five over the decades ahead. This bill is part of a suite of actions | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
we are taking to boost to Britain's fibre. We will break down barriers | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
to better broadband for visitors and get quicker collectivity for | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
consumers. First, in the Digital economy act, we reformed the | :05:58. | :06:00. | |
electronic communications code which regulates agreements between people | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
who provide the sites and the digital communication operators. | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
This new code will make it easier for electronic communications in the | :06:09. | :06:10. | |
structure to be deployed, maintained and upgraded and we are currently | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
finalising the regulations needed to support the new Golden planned to | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
commence it later this year when the work has been completed. Second, | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
with the separation of open reach from BT, we will see a more | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
competitive market with an Open reach that will serve our customers | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
well, not just focus on BT. This decision has been largely welcomed | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
by BT's competitors and is the result of some intense negotiations | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
between off, and BT and I think it is the right outcome and the one | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
that will ensure Openreach delivers not just for its customers but for | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
the whole country. Third, we support the fibre roll-out through a 400 | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
million digital infrastructure investment fund to help competitors | :06:54. | :06:56. | |
in the market to reach scale and to deliver. The fund will improve | :06:57. | :07:04. | |
access to funding for alternative providers for fibre infrastructure | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
to allow them to compete with larger players. Well that assist those | :07:08. | :07:15. | |
areas of which there seemed to be a great number in my old constituency | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
where one part of, say, a market town or small village has actually | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
had the box upgraded by BT but because some of the users are a few | :07:24. | :07:29. | |
yards further away from the box, with longer copper wires, they can't | :07:30. | :07:36. | |
get a decent service? It may well help, but the thing that will really | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
help those people is the universal service obligation. That means that | :07:41. | :07:48. | |
everybody will have a right to a high-speed broadband connection so | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
they can get connected. Some of these will be delivered by the | :07:52. | :07:54. | |
next-generation full fibre collectivity. Some of them by the | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
existing technology, but part of our whole package of measures which | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
delivers better broadband and quicker collectivity will ensure | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
that we reach those people who frustratingly can be just a few | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
yards away, further away, from the box or indeed see the bitter fibre | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
go down the road in front of them but not be connected. I welcome this | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
bill, I think this is essential for moving the country forward in making | :08:23. | :08:25. | |
our businesses are strong as possible, but even in the centre of | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
Thompson, Taunton Deane and the county town Taunton, there are areas | :08:32. | :08:33. | |
they still cannot get fast broadband so I wonder if the Minister might | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
tell us how quickly they might be able to take advantage of this new | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
service? The universal service obligation is in the law to make | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
sure that everybody can have access to that service by 2020, but that is | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
an end state. That is a deadline. As I said earlier, we have now reached | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
93% of premises. Crucially, this is access to broadband for 92% of | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
broadband. You still have to take it up and everybody who takes up the | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
service, if it is in a subsidised area, then puts more money into the | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
box we can get more out and give access to superfast broadband to | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
more people and so we have gone from 42% in 2010 when my right honourable | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
friend for Wantage took up the reins of delivering this. Just 42% of the | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
country had it, now it is 93% have access to it, on track to get to 95% | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
by the end of the year and 100% of premises will have access to | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
high-speed broadband by 2020. As she can see, we are rolling that out. | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
But the crucial thing is that that is delivering today's technology | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
that delivers the needs of the average household today. But we | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
also, at the same time, need to make sure we are ahead of the curve on | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
the next generation of technology and so the digital investment fund | :09:53. | :09:59. | |
will... The idea here is that it supports the commercial finance of | :10:00. | :10:01. | |
alternative developers so we get more players into the market. It's | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
not just BT and Version, but more players into the market and the | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
Government's investment will be matched by private sector investment | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
so we expected to capitalise more private investment and bring over ?1 | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
billion of investment over all, we hope, into full fibre broadband, | :10:22. | :10:24. | |
getting very high speeds that some people need and want now but many, | :10:25. | :10:27. | |
many more will in the future as these demands increase. | :10:28. | :10:35. | |
Referring back to the universal service obligation which is a | :10:36. | :10:46. | |
revolution in provision by wonder if she could indicate greater | :10:47. | :10:48. | |
constituents are like this noteworthy cost cap is going to be | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
and whether he will burnish his credentials are as a hero of the | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
rule Britain or not? I know it'd take a condiment as a threat. -- | :10:58. | :11:08. | |
compliment. It all depends on the technology because for some places | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
and there are a long way away from the existing network it may cost an | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
awful lot to Dick a trench and get a piece of fibre or the rate to them | :11:17. | :11:23. | |
and new technologies are coming on stream to beam a signal from one | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
place to another and as a last resort satellite technologies which | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
are good but just not as reliable. That means that everybody can get | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
connected to the aim is to get decent speed broadband to every | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
premise that wants them but to make sure that as much of that is as | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
feasibly possible is covered by a fixed network but also using | :11:49. | :11:50. | |
technologies to reach the hardest to reach. Thank you for confirming that | :11:51. | :12:01. | |
100% of properties will have access by 2020 but will he confirm what | :12:02. | :12:04. | |
speeds they will have access to? There is a range of 2 megabits per | :12:05. | :12:12. | |
second and 24 megabits per second, what range of speeds as he talking | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
about? 10 megabits per second as a minimum and that is the off, | :12:18. | :12:25. | |
analysis of the needs today of the average household because this is | :12:26. | :12:27. | |
about making sure there is a service that everybody can use. As we ask | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
people to pay their taxes and get the passport online or indeed or | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
indeed do their applications for payment services for example, it is | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
perfectly reasonable request back to us in Government that people should | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
have a decent level broadband. If you want to be related top level, | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
then people may have to pay more for that and I think that is not a | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
reasonable either. We are saying there must be a decent level of | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
high-speed broadband. At the moment we have said 10 megabits per second | :13:01. | :13:03. | |
as a minimum but we have also said it has to be reviewed in an upper | :13:04. | :13:11. | |
selection in due course. I speak as someone whose constituency is one | :13:12. | :13:22. | |
big roadworks and 52 premises is welcomed by people Robert | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
committees. Will you be able to help us concerns you might have about | :13:28. | :13:33. | |
this discussion with the valuations office agency who seem to not | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
understand the way the world is and at the click of a bureaucrat's | :13:39. | :13:46. | |
modes, cancel radically alter the finances of a local authority in | :13:47. | :13:54. | |
terms of how business rate networks. I beef we are committed to | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
e-business reach review to look at the existing fibre that is currently | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
in the ground and I'm sure the Secretary of State and Minister will | :14:04. | :14:09. | |
have hurt him but the heart of this bill is making sure that new fibre | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
that goes into the ground will have no such right at all for the next | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
five years and that is why we're here legislating today to make sure | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
that companies like the one mentioned can get on and this fibre | :14:21. | :14:27. | |
and stick it into the ground has sufficient it and cheaply as | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
possible and reduce the tax on that. The next thing fibre is important | :14:33. | :14:40. | |
for its gentleman thief IG strategy, including a cut and shut up | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
products. You want mobile phone coverage where people live and work | :14:45. | :14:52. | |
and travel. We are working with off, to make sure they are five G ready | :14:53. | :15:01. | |
and working right across Government to make sure we get the rules around | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
putting that infrastructure in place right. We are supporting 5G pilots | :15:06. | :15:13. | |
so we can rule out the first 5G next year which will mean Britain will be | :15:14. | :15:20. | |
a global leader in 5G. All 5G Robert is supported by fibre. You cant have | :15:21. | :15:28. | |
a 5G mask of 35 connecting it to the network. The programme is about | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
supporting local bodies testability market for fibre connectivity. You | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
can't deliver this with some sort of entirely nationalised top-down | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
taxpayer funded system. You have to do it in collaboration with the | :15:44. | :15:50. | |
private sector. The local fibre networks programme is being | :15:51. | :15:52. | |
delivered in support of local bodies to encourage the market to provide | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
more fibre connectivity for instance through the public sector anchor | :15:58. | :16:00. | |
tenancy which will bring public sector broadband demand together in | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
an area to create an anchor customer to make sure that there is investors | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
know there is enough revenue to reduce the risk of building a new | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
network directly connecting into public sector buildings and schools | :16:11. | :16:13. | |
and hospitals and at the same team will improve the connectivity for | :16:14. | :16:16. | |
those working in our vital public services. And bringing fibre closer | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
to more homes and businesses allowing them to be connected as | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
well. The first will begin later in the year. It is a great example of | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
the public and private sector working together to improve | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
connectivity for all. Our business broadband fibre connection of | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
vouchers, this is incredibly exciting afflict me you are | :16:39. | :16:41. | |
frustrated at the poor quality of broadband been delivered to | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
businesses. Any last parliament we had a really effective voucher | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
scheme for superfast broadband for businesses and this will be trialled | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
by the end of the year. It will be for full fibre connections for | :16:56. | :16:58. | |
businesses and we will roll it out more widely in 2018 to help | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
businesses get the best fibre broadband because we notes are many | :17:03. | :17:06. | |
jobs and business growth depends on it. This Bill takes a further step, | :17:07. | :17:11. | |
business rates are an important source of revenue for local services | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
but have long been sated by the Telecom service as a barrier to | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
investment. Has been consternation about how these rates have been | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
acculturated with the perception of a disparity right for fairness and | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
the rates paid by some operators like BT and virgin media and smaller | :17:32. | :17:38. | |
alternative networks. The rating methodology as a matter for the | :17:39. | :17:41. | |
independent VOA that has been working with the sector on this but | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
this is a complex work and we haven't got a moment to waste. We | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
recognise the urgent need to go the urgent mail so in the Autumn | :17:50. | :17:56. | |
Statement last year the Chancellor announced 100% rates relief on all | :17:57. | :17:59. | |
new fibre networks repeat of five years from April 2017 with any | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
relief to that date. We will find a group of fuel a full fibre future | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
and we have brought forward at this Bill Elliott in this Parliament to | :18:11. | :18:16. | |
bring forward the changes to legislation to make it happen. The | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
bill introduces new rules into each provision for business rates to | :18:22. | :18:24. | |
allow us to vary the rates bill for telecommunication infrastructure | :18:25. | :18:27. | |
which will be set so that no rates are paid on new fibre for five years | :18:28. | :18:35. | |
from the April just gone. I'm grateful for giving way. Does he | :18:36. | :18:43. | |
think the five-year period will be sufficient to incentivise the | :18:44. | :18:46. | |
players and the market to get on and roll out this fibre broadband and | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
can he try and ensure that in doing that we get coverage across the | :18:52. | :18:54. | |
country that is just starting any easy to reach areas first? There is | :18:55. | :19:02. | |
no doubt that the five-year business rates according shows that we are | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
reducing the cost of getting this fibre into the ground. It is time | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
limited so my message to alternative providers and the big players is get | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
on with it. Make use of this relief while it is available. It gives us | :19:17. | :19:19. | |
time through the business rates review and the VOA to look at the | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
context is in this of a reasonable period of time and come forward with | :19:26. | :19:37. | |
a long-term sustainable scheme and and I'm sure Hansard from excess but | :19:38. | :19:45. | |
similarly eloquent, I can't remember right was up to and I have lost my | :19:46. | :19:52. | |
train of thought... The other thing is, the final thing I was going to | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
say is that it will give us the opportunity towards the end of that | :19:57. | :19:59. | |
period to decide whether five years has been long enough and whether we | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
want to extend it. The fact it is a five-year period demonstrates that | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
people should get on with it and it will be no shorter than five years, | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
I can reassure you of that Diane Whipple for the intervention because | :20:14. | :20:15. | |
it allowed me to completely get confused with my own points. | :20:16. | :20:25. | |
Entitled is all part of an effort for the ?1.1 billion to support the | :20:26. | :20:29. | |
market lead role of fibre broadband and ensure we are at the front of | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
the queue for five G. There is a lot more work to be done. You will | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
consult shortly on the technical details of implementation. The | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
relief will introduce cost of 2.1, incentivise the market to deliver | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
and I hope that in the spirit of cross-party collaboration, the bill | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
will get support from all sides as it will benefit people right across | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
our United Kingdom. We want to see a country where people are better | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
connected, where everyone can get online and reach their full | :21:00. | :21:02. | |
potential and make sure nobody is left behind. This bill provides a | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
step on that journey and I commend the bill to the House. The question | :21:07. | :21:15. | |
is that the bill be no read a second time. Thank you. Can I welcome you | :21:16. | :21:23. | |
to nature, it is a pleasure to see you and your rightful place. Kerry | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
also take this opportunity to welcome my shadow communities and | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
local Government team, the honourable friend the member member | :21:32. | :21:40. | |
for old west, the member for make a field and the member for Portsmouth | :21:41. | :21:49. | |
South who has agreed to be my McAfee. We cautiously welcome the | :21:50. | :21:59. | |
Government's apparent commitment for five years for all new investment in | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
full fibre internet. I see cautiously and I will set out wide | :22:04. | :22:10. | |
and the course of my speech. Until the last and from dimension the | :22:11. | :22:13. | |
minister waxed lyrically for 20 minutes before he got onto the | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
subject of a very short bill which is a business rate relief. We on the | :22:19. | :22:24. | |
side of the housework and the opportunity to finally discuss a | :22:25. | :22:27. | |
crucial piece of infrastructure policy which will have a huge impact | :22:28. | :22:33. | |
on the potential investment opportunities for all other | :22:34. | :22:35. | |
amenities over the coming decades. I do think it is rather ironic that on | :22:36. | :22:43. | |
the day that pretty much all of the parliamentary internet connection | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
own that we are talking about IT connections but nevertheless I have | :22:49. | :22:51. | |
it on good assurance that the parliamentary offices at busily | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
trying to reconnect MPs to their e-mail accounts and the intranet. | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
All members all know that this policy will have an impact on every | :23:02. | :23:10. | |
part of the country, urban or rule and we have to get this right. | :23:11. | :23:17. | |
Members I'm sure will fuel the circular today as we and others duff | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
struggle with the collapse of the internet across the Westminster | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
estate. We are expecting a larger and more substantial bill here today | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
not least considering the scope of investment and certainty needed both | :23:35. | :23:37. | |
in terms of a full fibre infrastructure as well as on | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
business rates more widely. It would appear that the Government has been | :23:42. | :23:48. | |
an permanent listening mode for quite some known which would explain | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
their decision to acquiesce to the concerns of independent and large | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
internet providers who had the end of last year faced an excess of | :23:56. | :23:58. | |
fourfold increase and there are rateable values. It has been | :23:59. | :24:06. | |
estimated by the UK's main providers and broadband commission that UK 5G | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
infrastructure will outstrip economic benefits of fibre broadband | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
which most of the country and the users by 2026 when it will be | :24:18. | :24:24. | |
outdated. By 2020 six the UK will reach a tipping point where the | :24:25. | :24:32. | |
direct economic benefits will be the conventional fibre broadband. | :24:33. | :24:35. | |
Various estimates point to a boost to the UK economy between five | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
billion and ?7 billion just to six years from roll-out. With 5G | :24:41. | :24:46. | |
broadband delivering economic growth almost twice as quickly as | :24:47. | :24:48. | |
conventional fibre broadband use today. Much like a railways and | :24:49. | :24:57. | |
roads thanks, the quicker the connection, the faster businesses | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
will grow particularly in an age where online sales, social media and | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
direct online contact with the buyers and sellers is becoming ever | :25:07. | :25:08. | |
more the norm. Boasting all the productivity by a | :25:09. | :25:29. | |
total of ?10 billion. As I've already mentioned, Madam Deputy | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
seeker, this makes good sound economic sense. With improved | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
collectivity comes greater economic growth, more jobs and improved links | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
between business hubs and individuals alike. So whilst I'm | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
sure that today's bill will be welcomed by larger providers in the | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
sector to relieve some of the burden that they face from increases in | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
business rates, this ?60 million on offer and it is a big giveaway to | :26:00. | :26:06. | |
them, I worry we'll do not as much as perhaps it ought to for the | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
independent providers and won't come close to mitigating for the fourfold | :26:11. | :26:17. | |
increase all providers have faced or, perhaps, in winding up perhaps | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
the Minister can give some reassurances that respect. Because, | :26:23. | :26:29. | |
not only do need assurances, also consumers need assurances that those | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
costs will not be passed on to them. Additionally, Madam Deputy Speaker, | :26:36. | :26:37. | |
I am slightly disappointed because today we only have the opportunity | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
to debate a partial bill instead of a more details and wide-ranging set | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
of proposals that were outlined in the local Government Finance bill of | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
which these measures originally were parked. And I specifically mentioned | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
the local Government Finance Bill which I note had already | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
successfully passed committee as it did include proposals on local | :27:04. | :27:06. | |
business rate retention for local authorities as well as the | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
legislation for business rate relief for a new full fibre broadband which | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
we are now discussing today. However, the fullest set of measures | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
seems to have disappeared since the general election. Since that | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
election, I have asked the Secretary of State on three separate occasions | :27:25. | :27:30. | |
for clarification on the progress of delivering business rate retention | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
for local authorities. Now, perhaps the Minister can respond either... | :27:35. | :27:41. | |
I'll allow him to intervene on me or he can respond in the closing, but I | :27:42. | :27:50. | |
ask him again, what is happening to retention and why has business rate | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
relief for a new 5G collectivity now been separated into this smaller | :27:56. | :28:01. | |
separate bill? I wrote to the Secretary of State and I await his | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
response, although by this stage I do hope the department can do | :28:07. | :28:09. | |
somewhat less listening and some more acting, so perhaps we can have | :28:10. | :28:17. | |
some answers and some clarity on the issue of business rate retention and | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
in the spirit of the cross-party co-operation that the Prime Minister | :28:24. | :28:29. | |
herself is now asking for, and in respect of ideas and a genuine | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
dialogue between the opposition and the Government, perhaps we can work | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
together on a shared future for local Government finance because the | :28:39. | :28:45. | |
local Government sector deserve more than a policy and a financial black | :28:46. | :28:51. | |
hole that they are currently faced with, with the exclusion of the | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
local Government Finance bill from the Queen's speech, but at the same | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
time, with the Government still announcing their intention to remove | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
the revenue support grant. So perhaps the Minister can clarify | :29:07. | :29:14. | |
that when closing. Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, the Secretary of State and | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
I both visited the LGA conference last week and admittedly we received | :29:19. | :29:23. | |
a slightly different restriction. At the conference, I'm sure he would | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
have been reminded again and again by representatives from councils of | :29:29. | :29:34. | |
all political colours of the financial certainty that a local | :29:35. | :29:37. | |
authority desperately need. Specifically, at a time when they | :29:38. | :29:43. | |
have already absorbed around 40% of cuts to their budgets. Now, instead, | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
like me, they have received no updates and no certainty, so while | :29:49. | :29:51. | |
we are talking about an element of the business rate in this bill, | :29:52. | :30:00. | |
perhaps we can remind the Secretary of State is that local authorities | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
need to have that clarity and that certainty for financial planning | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
going for words that they are going to get some idea from this | :30:12. | :30:14. | |
Government of where there are wider business rates policy is going. | :30:15. | :30:21. | |
Because I will repeat what I said during my speech to the local | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
Government Association, the Secretary of State told local | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
Government that they faced a looming crisis in confidence. He's wrong. | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
It's this Government that are facing a looming crisis in confidence. | :30:36. | :30:41. | |
Because the lack of clarity on business rates, this Government's | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
botched prisons rates and evaluation have left thousands of businesses | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
facing the cliff edge of increases in their rates as well as the | :30:53. | :30:57. | |
Government's support packages and promises to review the re-evaluation | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
progress is going nowhere near far enough. It's clear that business | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
rates are at this department's ticking time bomb and it threatens | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
to destroy high streets and town centres across the country. Now, on | :31:10. | :31:16. | |
the side of the House, Madam Deputy Speaker, we advocate introducing | :31:17. | :31:20. | |
statutory annual re-evaluations to start businesses facing periodic and | :31:21. | :31:28. | |
unmanageable hikes. And guarantee a fair and transparent appeals | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
process. We will reform business rates, we will scrap quarterly | :31:34. | :31:36. | |
reporting and we will end the scourge of late payments because it | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
is this side of the House, Madam Deputy Speaker, the Labour Party, | :31:42. | :31:44. | |
which is the party of business. LAUGHTER | :31:45. | :31:55. | |
They can heckle, but... But the fact is speak clearly. This Government | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
have lets down a business and they have let down local Government. Now, | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, there was a further mission to this bill. I will | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
give way. Could he just remind us of the Labour Party's policy on | :32:11. | :32:17. | |
corporation tax rates? Absolutely! The Labour Party would have | :32:18. | :32:24. | |
increased corporation tax to pay for better public services, but our | :32:25. | :32:26. | |
corporation tax rates would still have been some of the lowest in the | :32:27. | :32:34. | |
G20. It's a question of priorities. You can either have poorly funded | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
public services or you can put that money where people want it, in a | :32:40. | :32:45. | |
better NHS, in better local governments, in better education or | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
you can give tax giveaways to those at the very top. It seems quite | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
clear that the Conservative Party, for all the rhetoric of ending | :32:55. | :33:00. | |
austerity, have not changed one iota. Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
there was a further admission to this bill, specifically... I will | :33:06. | :33:15. | |
give way. I'm very grateful. I wonder, witty acknowledge, does he | :33:16. | :33:17. | |
recognise that the reductions in corporation tax over the last few | :33:18. | :33:20. | |
years have led to a massive increase to be cast collected by the | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
Treasury? As I said before, it's a question of priorities. You can give | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
tax cuts to big business or you can invest in public services. Now, the | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
point is we made a very clear choice. We have differences of | :33:38. | :33:43. | |
opinions on this. The honourable gentleman, I don't dispute, feels | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
that having the lowest corporation tax is a good thing. I think having | :33:49. | :33:54. | |
some of the lowest corporation tax in the world, but having a better | :33:55. | :34:01. | |
funded public... It's not an anti-business rads! It's both | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
pro-business and pro-public services and that is the choice because our | :34:07. | :34:10. | |
public services are on their knees and if this is the cross-party | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
co-operation Minister and Prime Minister wants, then I'm afraid it's | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
going to be a long time waiting. I will give way because we are talking | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
now about infrastructure. -- I will not give way. No, I have given way | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
once. I am not giving again. There is a further admission to this bill, | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, and it is specifically the exclusion of any | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
real and meaningful legislative commitments on growing of broadband | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
within this bill. I am worried that there appears to be absolutely no | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
mention in the Bill's body or the explanatory notes of growing and | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
expanding the UK's superfast broadband in our rural areas. I know | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
the Minister touched on it and I think that there is some consensus | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
of the desirability of getting this hands I will give a short anecdote | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
that last year, I was privileged to be in the delegation to Zambia with | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
the interparliamentary union for their assembly. In the middle of | :35:16. | :35:21. | |
Africa, and we were in the middle of nowhere on literally one of the | :35:22. | :35:28. | |
visits to a health scheme near the Zambezi River, I received almost | :35:29. | :35:37. | |
perfect for Jie collectivity to my mobile phone. Madam Deputy Speaker, | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
there are parts of my own constituency where you don't get is | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
such perfect 4G connection and so I do think that we do have to look at | :35:47. | :35:52. | |
our Internet connections, our broadband connections, our mobile | :35:53. | :35:55. | |
telephone connections in this country so that we have the very | :35:56. | :36:02. | |
best to support business, to support consumers and to support | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
individuals. As I'm sure the Minister is aware, families living | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
in rural areas are, many of them, struggling to get anything close to | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
fast broadband, let alone 5G which is being discussed today. Many | :36:16. | :36:18. | |
others are struggling to get anything above two mega megabytes | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
per second, making most average use of day-to-day Internet functions and | :36:24. | :36:30. | |
can be frustrating. The impact on rural businesses is steeper with the | :36:31. | :36:33. | |
environment, food and real affairs committee warning before the 2015 | :36:34. | :36:40. | |
general election that rural communities are being overlooked for | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
investment by businesses looking to either expand and develop due to | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
certain regions having very poor digital collectivity. In fact, the | :36:50. | :36:53. | |
then chair of the committee, the former member for Thirsk and Malton, | :36:54. | :36:59. | |
said that there is a risk in the current approach that improving | :37:00. | :37:02. | |
services for those who already have it will leave even further behind | :37:03. | :37:09. | |
those that have little or none. Now, rather than taking responsibility | :37:10. | :37:15. | |
for this ever growing chasm in our technology and identifying specific | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
areas that desperately need investment, the Government has | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
instead chosen to rely solely on the market to encourage improvements in | :37:24. | :37:28. | |
any given area. I will give way. I just want to let him know that's not | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
in fact the case and the Digital economy act, which is the last Bill | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
packed in the last Parliament, gives us the power to require the | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
universal service obligation to give high-speed broadband to everybody. | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
Exactly, as my honourable friend the member for Alden Western Royton | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
says, that should be shared with the backbenchers because there is | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
growing dissatisfaction across all areas of the House with some of the | :37:55. | :37:59. | |
Google broadband collectivity. The impact that is having not just on | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
consumers but on businesses and the slow pace at getting those | :38:04. | :38:09. | |
improvements in and it's clear that perhaps the Government ought to use | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
those powers that it has to make sure that those improvements do | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
indeed happen because it is a massive frustration and I can see | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
the Minister nodding his head in agreement. It is a massive | :38:21. | :38:23. | |
frustration for those communities and those businesses. I will give | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
way. It is a massive frustration and we will use the powers. If she can | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
let me answer the intervention that the Minister has just said before | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
taking a second intervention. I'm grateful to hear that from the | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
Minister and we will certainly hold the Government to account to make | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
sure that that intervention takes place because, as he knows, we are | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
all here to make sure that those improvements happen and if he has | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
given a commitment from the dispatch box that he is going to use his | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
ministerial position to ensure that the market isn't given a free for | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
all and that the Government will ensure that those improvements | :39:04. | :39:06. | |
happen in those rural areas, to those rural businesses and those | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
rural consumers then that will certainly have support from the side | :39:12. | :39:12. | |
of the House. I will give way. Many of us are campaigning on behalf | :39:13. | :39:25. | |
of constituents for a better broadband but I would also say that | :39:26. | :39:31. | |
I appreciate on behalf of 20% of the properties and many of my | :39:32. | :39:34. | |
constituents, 20% of those properties have been connected with | :39:35. | :39:37. | |
superfast broadband back to the Government's intervention. I'm | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
expecting to see up to 100% as a minister referred to connected | :39:44. | :39:51. | |
thanks to the obligation so I am looking forward to being very | :39:52. | :39:53. | |
grateful to this Government of what they are doing for my constituents. | :39:54. | :40:01. | |
I'm grateful to the intervention because it wasn't just from the | :40:02. | :40:04. | |
Government and I don't know whether she was a remain or a lever but it | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
would be very remiss of this House would ever 1's views on Brexit are | :40:10. | :40:17. | |
to also acknowledge the involvement of the European Commission in | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
ensuring that the roll-out of some of this infrastructure and | :40:21. | :40:23. | |
technology was funded through the European Commission as well. Not | :40:24. | :40:28. | |
just from this Government but actually from others and you can see | :40:29. | :40:35. | |
from the boxes and down country, the country, the European flag is | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
actually on a number of those cabins and infrastructure. I'm afraid I | :40:40. | :40:47. | |
have probably by mentioning the word Europe have upset the honourable | :40:48. | :40:55. | |
gentleman. On that point of the EU, he has to recognise the downside to | :40:56. | :41:02. | |
the involvement. I know he struggled for a long time with EU state aid | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
rules with the roll-out of broadband and had to come up with a slightly | :41:08. | :41:10. | |
Heath Robinson scheme of vouchers to get around these EU rules. If | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
anything they have the right not assisting. You're absolutely right. | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
I am not saying that everything was perfect with that scheme with the | :41:21. | :41:23. | |
European Community or the European Union. Merely passing the point to | :41:24. | :41:31. | |
the lady's intervention that it would be remiss of us to suggest it | :41:32. | :41:38. | |
was just all from the central Government, the funding for this, it | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
has come from a variety of sources including from the European | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
Commission as on all the cabins give a testament to four. As I have | :41:46. | :41:54. | |
already said, what are rural areas and you need is that long-term | :41:55. | :42:00. | |
investment strategy and we don't just need a short-term subsidy | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
helpful though that is and so I look forward to making sure and holding | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
this minister to account when he is in this post. To make sure he makes | :42:11. | :42:18. | |
good on his word today at the dispatch box, that the short-term | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
subsidy will help of some of this investment but we do need to make | :42:23. | :42:26. | |
sure that investment continues apace beyond the deadline of the five | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
years of this business rate relief and that we continually update our | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
internet connections with whatever is on the latest technology of the | :42:37. | :42:45. | |
day. On the side of the House, focus is touring college investment in old | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
amenities by excluding new investment in plant and machinery | :42:52. | :42:54. | |
from future business rates valuation which will free up medium and large | :42:55. | :43:00. | |
businesses to invest in any area of the country. The country does need | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
fresh ideas in order to meet the emerging challenges of the new | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
century network we have seen today in a strip Stone Bill as the lack of | :43:10. | :43:20. | |
compliance of an compelling alliterative framework supporting | :43:21. | :43:23. | |
all businesses and local authorities in respect of business rates. On | :43:24. | :43:33. | |
that I do desperately plead that the corporation the Prime Minister has | :43:34. | :43:41. | |
asked for is genuine and heartfelt hope and that she doesn't look for | :43:42. | :43:47. | |
ideas genuinely from the side of the House which we are more than happy | :43:48. | :43:54. | |
to provide to the Government both in terms of how we improve | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
infrastructure and cities and in rural areas, how we update our | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
connectivity not just in the physical but also through the cloud | :44:03. | :44:11. | |
and other technologies as well, how we use emerging technologies to | :44:12. | :44:13. | |
benefit British business which is going to be absolutely crucial if we | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
are going to keep a competitive advantage in the uncertain years | :44:19. | :44:25. | |
ahead as we remove ourselves from the European Union and the strike a | :44:26. | :44:31. | |
new set of trade deals across the world, we've got to keep that | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
competitive edge. I agree with the minister is that and emerging | :44:37. | :44:42. | |
technology and infrastructure as part of that mechanism to be able to | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
drive forward the British economy and these new challenges that lie | :44:48. | :44:53. | |
ahead. I will end on this because we would divide the House tonight, we | :44:54. | :45:00. | |
will look to strengthen the bill and committee, we will continue to | :45:01. | :45:04. | |
challenge the Government on the right policy for local Government | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
finance until we get the answers and the certainty that the local | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
Government sector so desperately needs but not infrastructure and | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
building that capacity for Britain to grow, and develop and a changing | :45:17. | :45:25. | |
world, a world where we are looking to emerging markets and looking into | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
new markets, that technology and infrastructure is vital to our | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
present Government in the future, it is incumbent on the party in power | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
working constructively with others to make sure that Britain's | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
infrastructure is kept as up-to-date and as state of the art as possible | :45:45. | :45:50. | |
and in that respect we give our cautious welcome to this bill. We | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
will seek to strengthen it and committee but let's work committee | :45:56. | :46:02. | |
telly-mac together for some of the measures because as local Government | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
minister knows, local Government does need that sister. -- certainty. | :46:06. | :46:15. | |
Am grateful for the chance to appear for the second time and I have sent | :46:16. | :46:23. | |
you to my entries. It is a great pleasure to take part in this debate | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
which I thought might be narrowly focused but a just from the | :46:27. | :46:31. | |
interventions that clearly this is going to be yet another pork -fest | :46:32. | :46:42. | |
about equality but for client -- talk fest. I know they are | :46:43. | :46:53. | |
unswerving and the support of my right honourable friend but don't | :46:54. | :46:58. | |
have a go at me when I did his job. It was good to hear the speech from | :46:59. | :47:04. | |
the opposition spokesman because she spent very little time actually | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
talking about broadband which thinks shows how will the job has been | :47:09. | :47:17. | |
done. He finished his speech to drop wildly about business rates are not | :47:18. | :47:22. | |
broadband. I respect his reasons because what we have seen under the | :47:23. | :47:24. | |
stewardship of my right honourable friend is the most successful rural | :47:25. | :47:31. | |
broadband programme ever devised another in the world. There was | :47:32. | :47:40. | |
Mitsubishi cheer. -- met to be a cheer. I will give you my cue points | :47:41. | :47:47. | |
as I go through my speech. This incredibly successful programme for | :47:48. | :47:54. | |
a few hundred million pounds has delivered superfast broadband to | :47:55. | :48:00. | |
fourth and a half million premises. All that money welcome back to the | :48:01. | :48:06. | |
Government because of the way the contracts reconstructed means that | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
once take-up passes a certain threshold, money is starting to be | :48:11. | :48:24. | |
paid back. I would echo my honourable friend when she talked | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
about the 20% and misses in her constituency that have superfast | :48:30. | :48:35. | |
broadband, it is important that we see our cup is half full and they | :48:36. | :48:38. | |
know the opposition Chief Whip Nick and his cup is half full at the | :48:39. | :48:47. | |
moment though that that deputy chief work? I digress. The cup is | :48:48. | :48:54. | |
half-full and it is absolutely understandable that we hear from | :48:55. | :49:00. | |
people who don't have broadband and are waiting for it and they are | :49:01. | :49:02. | |
understandably irritated but those of voices obviously grow louder as | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
superfast or bond spreads and more and more people do have access to | :49:08. | :49:12. | |
this fantastic technology. I got involved in the debate about | :49:13. | :49:19. | |
business rates for broadband many years ago, when I was in opposition | :49:20. | :49:25. | |
are used to tease then telecoms Minister and they came up with an | :49:26. | :49:31. | |
opposition policy that we were going to reduce or illuminate business | :49:32. | :49:38. | |
rates on telecoms infrastructure and every provider I came to used to | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
tell me that business rates were a big impediment to investment and I | :49:43. | :49:47. | |
challenged the Minister about what he was going to do about it. The | :49:48. | :49:53. | |
valuation office agency was in charge and it was his job to sort | :49:54. | :49:59. | |
this out and when I got into office I realised there was absolutely | :50:00. | :50:03. | |
nothing I could do about this. The VOA is independent, it says the | :50:04. | :50:09. | |
level of business rates and certainly sees off any Minister that | :50:10. | :50:14. | |
tries to alter its independence or affect its judgment and quite right | :50:15. | :50:20. | |
too. The other role we had is that apparently BT gets a better deal on | :50:21. | :50:25. | |
its business rates compared to some of the smaller providers about | :50:26. | :50:28. | |
understanding is that is because of long-standing court case which BT | :50:29. | :50:34. | |
took and it is one of those unfortunate things because BT has | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
much more infrastructure and the ground, it was able to cut a | :50:40. | :50:43. | |
wholesale deal but it is much more difficult for small providers | :50:44. | :50:46. | |
getting underway. The point I am trying to make in my rambling | :50:47. | :50:53. | |
fashion is that the impact is real, one of the factors people take into | :50:54. | :50:58. | |
account when they are trying to build infrastructures so this bill | :50:59. | :51:01. | |
is a welcome measure to address that problem. I have to say, the bill is | :51:02. | :51:09. | |
the most boring and technical bill I have a read. It is only six clauses | :51:10. | :51:13. | |
and they sought six officials in the box and I wondered of each one had | :51:14. | :51:16. | |
been given a clause because the chance of making it to the end of | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
even one as most impossible and I don't know if under the stress of | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
doing this job any of my honourable friend to suffer from insomnia but I | :51:26. | :51:28. | |
strongly recommend you take this bill home and halfway through clause | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
one you will be sound asleep. But we understand the thrust of what it is | :51:35. | :51:37. | |
trying to do which is to encourage new investment in broadband | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
infrastructure so by suspending the levying of business rates it should | :51:42. | :51:46. | |
encourage investment in infrastructure and I think the | :51:47. | :51:50. | |
Government has cultivated something like ?60 million worth of savings | :51:51. | :51:52. | |
are potentially going to be made available. I echo what was said at | :51:53. | :51:58. | |
the dispatch box and I hope that all new infrastructure providers will | :51:59. | :52:07. | |
take advantage of this because this bill is aimed squarely at them to | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
remove a financial barrier to further investment. Of course what I | :52:13. | :52:20. | |
think the Government is trying to do is understand that we are no moving | :52:21. | :52:23. | |
to the next phase broadband roll-out. The key task of the last | :52:24. | :52:29. | |
Parliament was to get effectively workable broadband, speeds of around | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
24 megabits to as many people as possible and that has pretty much | :52:36. | :52:39. | |
been completed and I understand people and the last 5% might get | :52:40. | :52:43. | |
lower speeds but those are still workable speeds. Starting to build | :52:44. | :52:46. | |
the infrastructure that will be future proof, that will be able to | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
deliver fast and reliable broadband at speeds above 30 megabits and more | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
indicator broadband speeds you will be able to dial up as more and more | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
people make use of this technology. We all know how much of this | :53:01. | :53:06. | |
technology and data be no use in terms of just the average home, with | :53:07. | :53:15. | |
CO2 teenagers at home and parents watching four K content at home, | :53:16. | :53:18. | |
became the bandwidth you need for that kind of content let alone | :53:19. | :53:23. | |
business needs as well. I would mention the biggest impediment apart | :53:24. | :53:29. | |
from business rates is of course planning. This is what a lot of | :53:30. | :53:35. | |
people do forget, that you think it is very easy to build this | :53:36. | :53:40. | |
infrastructure, it is not at all. One comes across far too many cases | :53:41. | :53:49. | |
of cancels not being coordinated, of broadband providers having to go to | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
five different departments and a council to get permission to dig up | :53:54. | :54:01. | |
the highway all the sort of permissions they need to make the | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
skin of infrastructure. That really is something that needs to be | :54:06. | :54:12. | |
gripped in some shape of fashion and in the spirit of cooperation, the | :54:13. | :54:21. | |
Prime Minister has announced this morning, there must be an | :54:22. | :54:24. | |
opportunity for the London mayor to set up a broadband task force to get | :54:25. | :54:29. | |
local London boroughs to coordinate the planet. I have heard of cases of | :54:30. | :54:34. | |
cancels, doesn't really matter for political colour, not granting way | :54:35. | :54:40. | |
leads to broadband provider who wanted to provide broadband for | :54:41. | :54:43. | |
social housing in London. I've heard of other councils the green boxes on | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
the pavements because they didn't like the design. I came across other | :54:48. | :54:53. | |
councils who because the broadband provider hadn't cleared up after | :54:54. | :54:55. | |
themselves on the previous work refused to let them go ahead with | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
future work. I understand the irritation but at the same time | :55:00. | :55:01. | |
there are still holding it back. There must be an opportunity, it is | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
a credible adult point, to coordinate the planning functions of | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
the Dunbar is but also cancels all across the country. | :55:12. | :55:16. | |
I disagree vigorously as it is not a boring point, it is a very important | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
point that these companies got after themselves because it gives | :55:23. | :55:24. | |
reputational damage as well when a company goes in trying to deliver | :55:25. | :55:28. | |
superfast broadband and they leave a mess behind them. That causes | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
concern to residences, has caused concern in my constituency. This is | :55:33. | :55:38. | |
an important point as well, it is important for them to get it right | :55:39. | :55:41. | |
so they can be encouraged to do more in the future as well. Virgin Media, | :55:42. | :55:49. | |
while I welcome their investment in Didcot, has in fact irritated quite | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
a few of my constituents on the Lido Grove estate, is you are quite | :55:54. | :55:56. | |
right. They should clear up after themselves. I did not make light of | :55:57. | :56:01. | |
clear, whilst they should be held accountable for that, their | :56:02. | :56:07. | |
reputation should not be, "You can't do any more work" because then they | :56:08. | :56:12. | |
are punishing other constituents for a past transgression. Clearly what | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
the Government wants to do is to encourage full fibre, fibre to the | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
premises and it is true that we are falling behind to some other | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
countries. Spain, for example, is well advanced but that is a | :56:25. | :56:28. | |
historical advantage that Spain has because it put the infrastructure in | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
some 30 years ago with extraordinary foresight and also, one has to | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
remember, topography. The built environment topography, the more | :56:37. | :56:40. | |
apartment blocks and someone you have, the easier it is to deliver | :56:41. | :56:46. | |
broadband quickly as opposed to spread out domestic homes. It is | :56:47. | :56:50. | |
also the case that one shouldn't necessarily be seduced by | :56:51. | :56:52. | |
statistics. You might see for example that France is ahead of us | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
in terms of fibre to premises but that fibre is in the same place as | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
fibre to the Cabinet and very few people therefore take it up. A lot | :57:02. | :57:05. | |
would say they have wasted investments in the approach that has | :57:06. | :57:08. | |
been taken so far, the incremental approach in the UK, in terms of | :57:09. | :57:15. | |
moving on to fibre are premises is the right approach because it keeps | :57:16. | :57:21. | |
pace with customer demand. Nevertheless, the good news about | :57:22. | :57:25. | |
fibre to premise is that the cost is coming down rapidly. Talk talk has | :57:26. | :57:30. | |
conducted trials in Europe and it is very telling to see what has | :57:31. | :57:33. | |
happened in Europe. They have the cost of connecting each home down to | :57:34. | :57:42. | |
a few hundred. -- in York. In the community, they talk about whether | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
people are in the Green zone which is word the fibre to the premises, | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
people want to be there and also interestingly, in terms of what | :57:50. | :57:53. | |
customers want, they don't actually care whether or not they're able to | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
access per gigabit. What they get, and all of us who have accessed as a | :57:59. | :58:05. | |
bras brought man's, is that they get 100% reliable servers whereas even | :58:06. | :58:08. | |
those who have superfast broadband know that the service can drop out. | :58:09. | :58:16. | |
So this is a very important and very welcome bill. All I would ask the | :58:17. | :58:21. | |
Minister is whether... If he could talk a little bit in summing up, I | :58:22. | :58:25. | |
don't know whether it will be the Secretary of State or my right | :58:26. | :58:28. | |
honourable friend summing up, about whether or not the Government has | :58:29. | :58:33. | |
considered how this release impacts on mobile infrastructure, so the | :58:34. | :58:37. | |
roll out of forgery in this country has been very successful and let's | :58:38. | :58:41. | |
not forget that has all been done by private investment. We really get | :58:42. | :58:44. | |
the mobile operators, but we have to remember that they pay us, as it | :58:45. | :58:47. | |
were, as taxpayers by paying into the Treasury coppers and then build | :58:48. | :58:52. | |
up their networks effectively with their own capital. They come across | :58:53. | :58:57. | |
the most bizarre planning issues all the time. I know the minister talked | :58:58. | :59:01. | |
about the electronic dealing cases code which is going to help make | :59:02. | :59:04. | |
mobile planning easier but whether or not this bill applies potentially | :59:05. | :59:09. | |
to be fibre Google from masts bark to the cabinets or whether it could | :59:10. | :59:17. | |
be amended, perhaps, to include mobile masts being free from | :59:18. | :59:20. | |
whatever business rates they pay. And also how this bill will | :59:21. | :59:25. | |
encourage the roll-out of 5G because 5G is going to potentially transform | :59:26. | :59:28. | |
everything and what we need there is a small cells dotted throughout an | :59:29. | :59:35. | |
urban environment and I know I company like our Kiva is already | :59:36. | :59:43. | |
trialling if 5G network. We knew that a rethink on planning that will | :59:44. | :59:46. | |
make it much much easier for mobile companies to roll out the small | :59:47. | :59:49. | |
cells because if they have to get some form of planning permission | :59:50. | :59:52. | |
regarding small cells they need for the dense coverage for the cells for | :59:53. | :59:57. | |
5G, it will be a real hindrance to the fast roll-out of 5G. I could | :59:58. | :00:03. | |
tell, as they made these remarks, that I had the full attention of the | :00:04. | :00:07. | |
House (!) I noticed one or two yarns, argues that the irritated | :00:08. | :00:14. | |
looks, when is this guy going to finish so I can get my spirits? | :00:15. | :00:23. | |
More! More! The time is now, I have finished. Thank you. Thank you for | :00:24. | :00:30. | |
calling me to speak in this debate is an air also, and perhaps of my | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
Plaid Cymru colleagues congratulate you on your election as Deputy | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
Speaker and is to say how much we're looking forward to working and | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
serving under your guidance for the duration of this Parliament. I will | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
keep my contributions short, as were all in and purposes from lost | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
perspective, this is a neighbouring bill. We broadly welcomed the | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
provisions as outlined in the Bill which provide power was for Welsh | :00:54. | :01:01. | |
ministers to give business relief for properties used to transmit | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
broadband and mobile communications. This is at least one step in the | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
right direction for my constituents who have seen a little digital | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
dividend from the hundreds of millions of pounds spent on | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
broadband and mobile signal to date. I do however have some concerns in | :01:16. | :01:22. | |
relation to the Government strategy into the most advanced technology. | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
As I understand the bill, the plan in England this revival of hundred | :01:28. | :01:30. | |
percent business rate relief for technology that supports 5G and | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
ultrafast broadband. As we heard in an earlier intervention, that is a | :01:35. | :01:41. | |
budget of around 60 million, which equates to budget consequential is | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
around ?3 million for Wales which will go into the general Welsh | :01:45. | :01:51. | |
Government pot and is vital, if I have one message from today's debate | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
that the Labour Boscombe and have ring fenced that cash and that that | :01:57. | :02:02. | |
is not spent on petrol tracks. 40% of my constituents, Madam Deputy | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
Speaker, are unable to access high-speed Internet. An even greater | :02:08. | :02:12. | |
proportion are unable to get a 4G mobile phone signal in their homes. | :02:13. | :02:21. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, there is quite clear that we have a conductivity | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
problem. There is no doubt of course that is is holding back the Welsh | :02:25. | :02:32. | |
economy. We have no hope of making progress in terms of developing our | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
economy as we are able to get to the bottom of the telecommunication | :02:37. | :02:38. | |
infrastructure problems we face and if we were able to do so, I would be | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
exuding confidence that we have a very, very bright economic future in | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
Carmarthenshire and in Wales due to the incredible natural assets that | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
we have as a county and as a country. I'm very fortunate to have | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
been born and raised in one of the most peaceful parts of the world and | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
I have no hesitation in mentioning that. With a range of incredible | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
leisure activities and I think one of the things we will see in a | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
modern workplace is that work and leisure time will become compressed | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
and people will be looking to set up their businesses where there are | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
leisure activities lie so if you like horse riding, cycling, | :03:17. | :03:23. | |
mountaineering, canoeing, all those leisure activities we have in | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
abundance in Carmarthenshire and I'm very confident that if we were able | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
to deal with those basic telecommunication infrastructure | :03:32. | :03:33. | |
problems that we face that we would be able to put forward a very | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
attractive economic package for investors and people looking to set | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
up their businesses in our beautiful county. While I would urge the last | :03:42. | :03:51. | |
Government to incentivise a conductivity improvements in Wales, | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
I would like to call in my speech, Madam Deputy Speaker, Welsh | :03:57. | :03:58. | |
ministers to take an alternative approach to that put forward by the | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
UK Government. It is absolutely vital that future investment as a | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
bare minimum in ours reels to be too baroque playing field before we | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
start supporting these advanced technologies. He needs to be | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
eradicated are not entrenched and I'm afraid what we have seen over | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
recent years is the Government and providers concentrating investment | :04:23. | :04:25. | |
on easy hits, on the large cities and large towns in my country | :04:26. | :04:33. | |
whereas the more rural areas have been deliberately left behind. The | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
last Government, via this bill now have used these powers and | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
consequential is wisely. Rather than only incentivising the most advanced | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
telecommunications technology, it is time something drastic was done to | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
incentivise the building of telecommunications of the structure | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
in rural areas such as the communities I am fortunate to serve | :04:54. | :05:02. | |
in Carmarthenshire. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I suppose I should | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
apologise particularly to my honorary friends the Secretary of | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
State from the Department of communities and local governments | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
because the last time I was called to speak in a debate which didn't | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
have a time limit was on the local Government finance settlement in | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
2016. I think my honourable friend putter-mac skies have just about | :05:25. | :05:26. | |
heel from that process. I was starting to date, every time I was | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
on the list and call to speak, suddenly a new time limit was | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
imposed, usually shorter than that which had gone before hand and my | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
neighbour for mid Dorset North Poole suggested that one was putting | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
posture is the applicant had to speak but I hope Madam Deputy | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
Speaker will resist this proves a car. I am not allowed to speak with | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
the authority that is my right honourable friend for Wantage spoke | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
with because he speaks with great authority. But I would likely some | :05:57. | :06:04. | |
points. I very much welcome this bill and the fact that it appears to | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
be the result of a collaboration between three important Government | :06:11. | :06:17. | |
departments. The community of local Government, DC MS and the Treasury. | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
And that sort of joined up working of three departments coming together | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
to identify a problem and to create a solution is, I think, to be | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
welcomed and certainly signposts to a very likely successful | :06:35. | :06:37. | |
governmental modus operandi is for the final five years that we have a | :06:38. | :06:39. | |
Conservative Government at the head of us. Now, I find myself lost in a | :06:40. | :06:48. | |
way that I reached for the smelling salts in some form of remedial | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
medication agreeing with the honourable gentleman who spoke from | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
the Labour Party front bench. I probably approach it in a slightly | :06:58. | :07:06. | |
different way, but certainly as far as local Government is concerned and | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
especially small shire districts who are always trying to seek to be more | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
efficient, as welcome as the proposals are within this bill to | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
help speed and underscore the importance of the delivery of | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
broadband, I hope and indeed to note that my right honourable friend the | :07:25. | :07:30. | |
Minister for DC LG will of course be taking this reduction now in a | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
funding stream of nondomestic rates to a local authority into | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
consideration as he evolves the new settlement, the new funding | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
settlement for our local council to do so much good work to do those | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
services and I felt the honourable gentleman made that point well and | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
I'm sure it will have been heard on both sides of the House because both | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
the delivery of broadband and the delivery of those local council | :07:58. | :08:03. | |
services are important, very often to exactly the same constituents who | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
need to see both. And I hope that this bill and the financial | :08:07. | :08:14. | |
incentive, if that is the correct word, will act as a spur to existing | :08:15. | :08:24. | |
providers to deliver on the lot spots very prevalent, particularly | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
though not exclusively in our rural areas where the economic case for | :08:29. | :08:37. | |
delivery is either nonexistent or is marginal. Or where, as a result of | :08:38. | :08:46. | |
further economic investigation, they have fallen out with the confines | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
and the constraints of the initial contract, usually agreed within | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
county councils as in the case with Dorset and so many and British | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
Telecom. My right honourable friend the member for Wantage spoke with | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
huge authority and experience on this and I don't you are from | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
anything that he is said and my right honourable friend the member | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
for West Suffolk talked about the evolving technologies that it isn't | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
just going to be wire, copper, fibre etc but fixed wireless and satellite | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
are playing a part. I think occasionally, Madam Deputy Speaker, | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
so long has been this debate I would to my right arm friend the member | :09:29. | :09:35. | |
for Boston and Skegness who has... I he doesn't look to me but I would to | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
him, he has done so much to promote the delivery of rural broadband in | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
this area, so much that he has been made a PBS in the department which | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
means he can no longer speak on the subject. This, Madam Deputy Speaker, | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
points the route to promotion. Talk with authority and knowledge on a | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
subject and then gives a up and silenced for many years to come. | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
Maybe that is why I was moved to the Home Office, I don't know. | :10:02. | :10:07. | |
Because this debate has not around with public and political debate and | :10:08. | :10:14. | |
the media for so long, it is worthwhile I would suggest just | :10:15. | :10:23. | |
posing for a few moments and reminding ourselves of the most | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
enormous strides that broadband Oregon and | :10:29. | :10:37. | |
and I'm going to cheesy House because I ordered something online | :10:38. | :10:48. | |
yesterday to be delivered to my House tomorrow. The sketch writers | :10:49. | :10:56. | |
and anybody else may wish to run some sort of book on what it was. | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
Why were levelled tell you that it was not something I would have | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
guessed you could have ordered online even three or four years ago. | :11:04. | :11:10. | |
My honourable friend is looking even more perplexed than usual. But it | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
just struck me of the huge change that this has made and this bill | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
helps to underpin its delivery but from a rural point of view, what | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
could be more rural than North Dorset, it is worthwhile reapplying | :11:24. | :11:33. | |
the benefits derived from fast and superfast broadband and which I | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
believe will be further helped by the contents of this bill. It was a | :11:37. | :11:44. | |
pleasure to follow the gentleman who was a right to point out as I do the | :11:45. | :11:53. | |
huge unlocking of charisma potential -- charisma potential in terms of | :11:54. | :12:07. | |
hotel rooms and visitor attractions. Interactive tourist attractions the | :12:08. | :12:13. | |
local authorities have withdrawn from face-to-face encounters, for | :12:14. | :12:15. | |
the farmer trying to buy or sell stock or make a submission to the | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
rural payments agency. Fast reliable broadband of a speed and regularity | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
which no longer drops off just as you are adding that crucial moment | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
of send or loading up on that last map is going to be absolutely | :12:31. | :12:37. | |
crucial. For small and medium-size businesses and I think of to my | :12:38. | :12:46. | |
constituency both based in a small market town, they provide platforms | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
online and interactive platforms for large international conferences. | :12:54. | :13:01. | |
Offices based in Seattle, Sydney and storm and stimulant. There because | :13:02. | :13:15. | |
town has 4G, Herts, the sort of shop review don't say, do you sell, you | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
merely ask queer can I find bequest is one of those shops that sell | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
absolutely everything from blackout curtains to make a lasting, it is | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
all there. None of those things Madam Deputy Speaker you require. No | :13:33. | :13:41. | |
she knows what I was ordering and he would be wrong on all counts. The | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
largest amount of their sales takes place from the Kokrak department | :13:47. | :13:54. | |
online. And a small market town that had until a few years ago their main | :13:55. | :13:56. | |
centre of industry having the largest calf and livestock market in | :13:57. | :14:04. | |
the whole of the south-west, broadband transforming local rural | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
economies and creating good quality high-tech jobs. It also helps and we | :14:10. | :14:18. | |
forget this at our peril, with the delivery of a whole raft of other | :14:19. | :14:27. | |
things, the rural social life. Small businesses disconnected by geography | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
and not particularly will still buy a rural public transport. Trying to | :14:31. | :14:37. | |
support charitable fundraising events. I can see the frustration we | :14:38. | :14:44. | |
now have a faster broadband provision that we used to have but I | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
can see the frustration on my wife's face tried to download posters for | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
events she's trying to organise. Suddenly transformed by a faster | :14:55. | :14:57. | |
speed being able to do it to know everybody in North Dorset and | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
through the official report will no that this trade it sees the Saint | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
Gregory Sommer says love, everyone is invited, a huge fundraising event | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
for a local school, the promotion of which all better enabled through | :15:13. | :15:19. | |
broadband. I'm more about my honourable member's life now than I | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
did five minutes ago. The entire House still wants to reveal what he | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
ordered last week online that he couldn't have ordered four years ago | :15:29. | :15:37. | |
online. It is a terrible mission from the Torah of my honourable | :15:38. | :15:40. | |
friend 's domestic online and agents. | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
I will tantalise the House still further by telling that what it was | :15:46. | :15:52. | |
is that it is inflatable... LAUGHTER | :15:53. | :16:01. | |
And is made of rubber. It happens to be a small two-man dinghy to allow | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
my elder daughter and I to do a little bit of rowing and Michael | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
fishing during our summer holidays. That is either pleased or | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
disappointed, distressed or despondent my honourable friend on | :16:18. | :16:25. | |
the side of the House. Rural isolation... Or are relieved that it | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
was something so entirely innocent and innocuous. Fast broadband | :16:32. | :16:39. | |
allowing us to watch television and order online will help with rural | :16:40. | :16:42. | |
isolation particularly important in an area such as mine, helping keep | :16:43. | :16:52. | |
families together and keep those intergenerational conversations | :16:53. | :16:55. | |
going over geography and a weekly visit may be not always appropriate. | :16:56. | :17:09. | |
Feasible or affordable. Again, my honourable friend has a Glastonbury | :17:10. | :17:22. | |
in his constituency, I know he has lost all of his banks... He mentions | :17:23. | :17:29. | |
banks and they know in my constituency I have had several | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
branches shut and one of the arguments I am given is that people | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
can use online but this is the very reason why we do need to ensure that | :17:38. | :17:40. | |
we have at excellent broadband facilities. You make my point and a | :17:41. | :17:50. | |
far better rate than I was going to because she is absolutely right, a | :17:51. | :17:57. | |
town such as mine which is lost to banks within the last year and loses | :17:58. | :18:04. | |
the bank at the end of this. Customers are being told both | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
private and business customers are being told there is entered banking. | :18:10. | :18:16. | |
That is fine as long as the speed and service is reliable enough to | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
allow you to remember why you were only on by the time you have | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
actually logged on to try and remember what financial transaction | :18:25. | :18:26. | |
you were going to undertake. That will not be a situation... And | :18:27. | :18:35. | |
grateful for giving way and didn't use the word relieved it was | :18:36. | :18:41. | |
reassured that move onto my point and does he agree with me at in more | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
rural areas which is referring to that having the good speed broadband | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
to enable you to access banking services ready are no longer exist, | :18:51. | :19:00. | |
enable particularly small businesses to operate any business environment | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
so they are not competitively disadvantaged against those parts of | :19:06. | :19:08. | |
the country that do have a good broadband coverage? You're | :19:09. | :19:14. | |
absolutely right and which of us will not have gone to an | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
agricultural show or some small business which can't necessarily | :19:19. | :19:20. | |
always afford the infrastructure of having all of those interconnected | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
pieces which allow you to pay by credit card etc? But as you will | :19:27. | :19:36. | |
know all too well, it it baffles me whereby some device plugged into my | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
phone means my credit card can be charged for whatever services I | :19:42. | :19:47. | |
provided, purchased thereby helping small to medium-size businesses | :19:48. | :19:50. | |
particularly than not exclusively also helping those people who make | :19:51. | :19:53. | |
things and sell things from home. They don't actually have a | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
commercial premises on their own from which to trade. For all of | :19:57. | :20:03. | |
those reasons plus our next generation, because I think we are | :20:04. | :20:11. | |
always inclined to look at television advertisements, they will | :20:12. | :20:14. | |
always focus on getting the film a bit faster or watching the spot, all | :20:15. | :20:22. | |
that is of course welcome and laudable but he's huge learning | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
opportunities and potential for young people in delivering education | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
and a 21st-century setting to hopefully boost and bolster | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
productivity can also be assisted by superfast and rival broadband. -- | :20:39. | :20:49. | |
reliable broadband. The Government has made the most enormous strides | :20:50. | :20:51. | |
and we have occasionally beaten up ministers and others about, I have | :20:52. | :20:57. | |
this village that villagers and cetera and we have all had it. I | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
said at the start of this is not just an issue reserved solely to the | :21:01. | :21:08. | |
rural setting, it also happens on the edge of London and elsewhere. | :21:09. | :21:16. | |
But when we actually pause and look at the data, notwithstanding some of | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
those problems which we have had, we are striding ahead of many of our | :21:21. | :21:28. | |
European friends and economic and commercial competitors and providing | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
access to broadband as we shouldn't always beat ourselves up. It is a | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
time when we are all been fed on the negative and the anti-, this is | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
actually something which was referenced earlier, something for | :21:44. | :21:47. | |
which we should be I think as a Government duly proud. This bill is | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
a fundamental and very important next step in that delivery. We hope | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
and believe that it will assist better and faster delivery and are | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
at rural areas in North Dorset and across the county of Dorset. It has | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
my full support. The ministers promoting it have my admiration and | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
encouragement and I look forward to making a speedy progress through | :22:13. | :22:24. | |
this House. The pleasure and honour to follow my comment from not | :22:25. | :22:32. | |
Dorset. -- my comrade. My first day I was told that if I wanted to keep | :22:33. | :22:35. | |
something secret I should make a speech about it in the House of | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
Commons. So it was on the 13th of September last year that I gave a | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
speech on the subject of this bill and called for a 100% rate relief on | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
new fibre networks. They even went so far as to draft an amendment to | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
the Digital economy Bill not to give that rate relief but to require the | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
valuation office to produce an annual report on the impact of the | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
rating system on competition in the telecoms sector because I had been | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
presented by various players in the industry with the ridiculous | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
conundrum that it was cheaper for them to rent fibre from BT and to | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
pay the rates bill on putting in a new fibre themselves. That was in | :23:21. | :23:26. | |
there a few entrenching the monopoly, near monopoly of BT and | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
giving an enormous structural advantage that was basically | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
chopping off competition. I spoke at the second reading of the Digital | :23:38. | :23:40. | |
economy Bill, draft of this amendment and had a very fruitful | :23:41. | :23:43. | |
conversation with the Minister who is not at his place at the moment | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
but he persuaded me that given some of the other amendments that I | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
should leave this to the Government to mull over for some months and | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
that they would give it some serious thought. So imagine my pleasure and | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
surprise when it appeared in the Autumn Statement last year and even | :24:02. | :24:04. | |
more now that it has appeared in this bill. Because it will provide | :24:05. | :24:11. | |
an enormous boost to competition in the sector, no doubt about it that | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
the differential, the asymmetric deal one business rates between BT | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
and new entrants is talking of new investment in large parts of the | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
country and means smaller countries have very little incentive and | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
competing directly with British Telecom the absolute for areas that | :24:33. | :24:34. | |
are currently underserved and commercial to try and make their | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
networks pay. This has resulted in a situation of innovation is had to | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
come by. BT have been helpful to me and my constituents as they have | :24:46. | :24:48. | |
been to a number of other members and I hope that they will take this | :24:49. | :24:54. | |
measure in the spirit at which it is intended which is that those of us | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
who believe any market economy that think that competition is good and | :24:58. | :25:00. | |
that it will not only be better for the consumer by better for BT | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
because it will drive them to greater innovation and efficiency | :25:05. | :25:07. | |
and hopefully greater profit in the future. This bill also represents a | :25:08. | :25:16. | |
welcome move for me towards seeing broadband and civic vacations as | :25:17. | :25:18. | |
what they should be fit as a utility. -- telecommunications. We | :25:19. | :25:26. | |
have seen recently more and more step towards that position so the | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
building regulations have been changed to make the position | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
broadband compulsory in new developments. We are so seeing | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
broadband been provided as a universal service hopefully over the | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
next few years and now we are seeing this listing of nondomestic rates on | :25:42. | :25:47. | |
parts of the network so that broadband is being treated much more | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
now like water or gas lighter city as a fatal utility which is course | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
is what it is becoming so I am pleased about this particular | :25:58. | :26:00. | |
development and hope this movement towards broadband as utility will | :26:01. | :26:01. | |
continue. Four seats like mine, broadband is | :26:02. | :26:13. | |
incredibly important. Very successful, vibrant countryside, if | :26:14. | :26:15. | |
it is going to compete with its urban neighbours, it needs to be | :26:16. | :26:20. | |
connected to the world. And socially, economically, the current | :26:21. | :26:23. | |
form of connection these days, more and more is not the road or the | :26:24. | :26:26. | |
motorway or visual carriageway but the superfast broadband. As my | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
honourable friend the member for North Dorset said, my constituency | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
like him it is peppered with businesses now wish to most of their | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
business online and we are very pleased to know that on Saturday I | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
attended the amp portrait and came across a brand-new business, very | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
pleasing business called Thames Valley gin which is a new brand of | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
June that is taking the market by storm. -- gender. Kate Griffin, the | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
inventor of this gin is having some success. 36 bottles a week, | :27:00. | :27:02. | |
production are selling like hot cakes, much of it online. I think | :27:03. | :27:08. | |
the website is called Jean Ali .co .uk. I'm very grateful to the | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
honourable gentleman. My ears pricked up when he mentioned gin but | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
perhaps in the interest of cross-party co-operation, you could | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
chairs around. Balls I have to confess to you, I was so taken with | :27:23. | :27:29. | |
the small sample because I was driving, the small sample that I did | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
buy a bottle. Media I will bring one in. I wondered whether at the House | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
of Commons authorities might start serving as in the bars. It is very, | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
very good. Our secret recipe of local herbs and spices, and | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
excellent drink I recommend to you. Businesses like that. Mike I had | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
of being in his constituency yesterday and I will back his | :27:51. | :27:57. | |
forgiveness provided not seek his permission... But honourable members | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
will be pleased to know it was purely for a cricket match and | :28:02. | :28:04. | |
therefore I did not feel I was obligated to seek his permission to | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
play cricket in his wonderful constituency. The point he's making | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
is an important one. It is not just his constituency but all our | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
constituents that broadband is more and more important to and I phrase | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
it as important as road and rail. Part of our infrastructure that all | :28:21. | :28:23. | |
of our constituents just can't do without. The honourable gentleman is | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
absolutely right, of course. He is very welcome to visit my | :28:29. | :28:31. | |
constituency at any time. I'm surprised he has only been once | :28:32. | :28:34. | |
recently, he should come more often. The door is always open. But it is | :28:35. | :28:41. | |
true that it's becoming a vital to maintaining rural life that villages | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
are connected to be world and it is ridiculous more and more to our | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
rural residents that they can see broadcast quality footage of Tim | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
Peake in the International Space Station but they can't go online and | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
post-complementary comments on my Facebook page. But many of my | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
constituents seem increasingly sold to do. By all means. Might I suggest | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
that his constituency might want to do the former rather than the latter | :29:13. | :29:18. | |
more often. That's very... Rather shy Leszek smack given how Coppola | :29:19. | :29:24. | |
Medran have been about him. -- rather churlish considering how | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
complement Riyadh have been about him. Perhaps I will reach the same | :29:28. | :29:35. | |
level of appreciation as Tim Peake. Something like 25% of small | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
businesses now are located in rural areas, nearly half a million | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
businesses are providing lots and lots of employment, jobs and | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
creating wealth that is going to be increasingly important. But this | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
bill points to a wider issue with which this House is going to have to | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
grapple over the next few years and the right honourable gentleman on | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
the front bench opposites did mention it and that's the | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
appropriateness of the business rates system. This is a tax that was | :30:06. | :30:12. | |
first devised in 1572 and now we are applying its to a 21st-century | :30:13. | :30:15. | |
economy, much of which takes place somewhere in the clouds, wherever | :30:16. | :30:23. | |
that might be. The bill acknowledges in its very core that business rates | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
have a disproportionate impact on competition in this sector and those | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
of us who have rural constituencies and indeed anyone with a high street | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
understands the disproportionality of business rates for retail | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
businesses. Particularly as more people are buying things online, as | :30:41. | :30:43. | |
my honourable friend from North Dorset said. If we are going to keep | :30:44. | :30:50. | |
our high-street vibrant and keep our businesses working, if we're going | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
to keep the competitiveness of the real economy against those huge | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
businesses that operate from nowhere these days, then whether business | :30:59. | :31:03. | |
rates, property on investment and expansion, taxes on investment and | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
expansion is an appropriate way to gather the revenue weenies, I would | :31:10. | :31:12. | |
question. I think there is going to, point over the next couple of | :31:13. | :31:18. | |
decades where we have to consider shifting taxation on corporations | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
away, perhaps even from profit and property, towards turnover. It is | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
certainly the case that if we were tasking the turnover of these large | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
international is, Google and Amazon etc, we would collect more from them | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
in a fairer way than we currently do and when we have corporations in | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
this country who transact here, perhaps dispatch goods from a second | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
country and yet booked the profit and a third country competing with | :31:46. | :31:50. | |
small shops on my high streets in north-west and a share, then we have | :31:51. | :31:53. | |
to think about the asymmetric taxation system on those two | :31:54. | :31:59. | |
organisations if we want a level playing field from the competition | :32:00. | :32:02. | |
point of view. So I welcome the bill, I welcome the direction of the | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
build towards broadband as a utility and awards in recognition of | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
business rates has a distorted effect on commerce and I hope that | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
over the next five years or so that many companies will take advantage | :32:17. | :32:19. | |
of this window. I suspect by the time we get to the end of the | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
window, it somehow will be extended and I hope that extension becomes | :32:25. | :32:27. | |
permanent that they will take advantage of the window and come to | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
North West Hampshire where they can plaster my entire constituency with | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
broadband, fibre to the Cabinet, fibre to the premises with my | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
pleasure and approval. Thank you. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy | :32:43. | :32:48. | |
Speaker. Like several other members here this afternoon, and this | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
evening, I had the pleasure of representing a beautiful and very | :32:54. | :32:59. | |
rural constituency. In fact, 42% of my constituency is part of an area | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
of outstanding natural beauty, so it makes a lovely constituency to go | :33:06. | :33:11. | |
walking in, to spend time in, to go for picnics N, fabulous for farming, | :33:12. | :33:19. | |
but is less good for connectivity. And I have, over the two and a bit | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
here is that I have been a member of Parliament, received letters and | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
occasionally e-mails if they have managed to get online, from | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
constituents in many villages including Kingswood, Doddington, | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
Eastern Lane, shelves which, all of which are lovely villages but all of | :33:39. | :33:47. | |
which struggle to be well connected and in all of which there are some | :33:48. | :33:50. | |
of my constituents who have had difficulty getting fast broadband | :33:51. | :33:57. | |
and also in several of those villages, it can be very difficult | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
to get a mobile phone signal. A couple of months ago during the | :34:04. | :34:07. | |
general election campaign, I was in Headcorn and I thought I might tweet | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
a picture from Headcorn station and I went to tweet that is not only did | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
I not have 4G on my mobile phone to do it, I did not have any mobile | :34:17. | :34:24. | |
phone signal at all. I couldn't even make an old-fashioned mobile phone | :34:25. | :34:27. | |
telephone call or send a text message. So there are parts of my | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
constituency like that patch of Headcorn where unless you happen to | :34:34. | :34:39. | |
be only one operator that may serve it a little bit, it's impossible to | :34:40. | :34:46. | |
even make a mobile phone call. So my constituency wants to have better | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
broadband and better mobile phone connections and is that is why I | :34:51. | :34:56. | |
welcome the commitment that this Government has been and is making to | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
connectivity across this country. As I mentioned earlier with an | :35:02. | :35:08. | |
intervention, thanks to the Government's programme on rolling | :35:09. | :35:14. | |
out high-speed broadband, 8432 properties have now got a high-speed | :35:15. | :35:17. | |
broadband connection that would not have had it without this programme | :35:18. | :35:25. | |
and by September 2018, I'm expecting around 2000 more properties to be on | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
high-speed broadband thanks to that programme. Which will amount to a | :35:30. | :35:36. | |
coverage of 25% of the properties in my constituency being connected | :35:37. | :35:39. | |
thanks to this Government's work and commitment to high-speed broadband. | :35:40. | :35:47. | |
That'll get Faversham and Mid Kent to around 90% of properties on | :35:48. | :35:50. | |
high-speed broadband, so we are still some way off the 100% that I | :35:51. | :35:58. | |
would like to see and so I very much welcome the universal service | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
obligation that is coming into force and, in fact, the work of my | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
honourable friend for Boston and Skegness who campaigned very hard to | :36:07. | :36:13. | |
put that into law. And I welcome the commitment made by my right | :36:14. | :36:16. | |
honourable friend the Minister earlier on the front bench of the | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
dispatch box when he mentioned that the cap, the financial cap that will | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
be in place for that will be high enough to make sure that 100% of | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
properties in constituencies like mine should receive access to | :36:30. | :36:36. | |
broadband of at least a 10 megabits per second. Now, that's not the | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
high-speed of the future, that is not the speed that we hope will be | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
delivered by legislation such as the legislation we are debating today, | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
but for those who have no or incredibly slow broadband at the | :36:50. | :36:53. | |
moment, 10 megabits per second will make a great difference. And that is | :36:54. | :37:01. | |
because, to all of us who represent a blog as it was is no, the | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
difference between the haves and have-nots that having high-speed | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
broadband esteem the life changing. Whether it allows you to do things | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
that we now consider to be everyday functions of life like sending | :37:14. | :37:19. | |
e-mails, like booking tickets and booking flights online, like | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
choosing Hall tells or B and B is, like comparing the offers on travel | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
insurance or publishers, like shopping for groceries, there is so | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
much which those about to have high-speed broadband take for | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
granted but some people still in my constituency do not even have that | :37:38. | :37:43. | |
access. I will give way. Which is surely not also adds that watching | :37:44. | :37:46. | |
BBC Parliament to watch this excellent speech for all her | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
constituents in Faversham and Mid Kent? I think my honourable friend | :37:50. | :37:56. | |
very much for that intervention. Although whether there is even one | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
of my constituents watching this speech, I won't hold my breath for | :38:01. | :38:07. | |
confirmation. But we know, for instance, that children often get | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
sent home work tasks that require them to look things up on the | :38:12. | :38:14. | |
Internet a child lives in a rural village or at the end of a track and | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
can't get online, they are disadvantaged in doing that work. | :38:19. | :38:21. | |
There is the very basic thing of staying in touch with distant | :38:22. | :38:24. | |
relatives who live all around the world now and actually I remember | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
when I was a Child is the enormous cost of making international call. I | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
think during my gap year when I was an 18-year-old, I need to phone | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
calls home in a period of nine months to my parents because it cost | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
such a huge amount to phone home. Now, you can do a video call | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
basically for nothing, so families can be in touch around the world and | :38:47. | :38:52. | |
also, as older people manage to get online and many people in their 70s, | :38:53. | :38:58. | |
80s and 90s are very active Internet users, it is one way I hope we will | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
be able to tackle the challenge of loneliness. Being able to make a | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
face time call to your grandma or grampa is a great way of keeping in | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
touch and much easier often than actually if it is very difficult to | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
go and see them. Then there is the question about work and that makes a | :39:16. | :39:21. | |
huge difference in rural areas as it does for the economy. Whether it is | :39:22. | :39:25. | |
enabling people to work from home, and I have two caseworkers who do | :39:26. | :39:28. | |
the majority of their work supporting me in my constituents | :39:29. | :39:31. | |
from home which enables them to double that work around their home | :39:32. | :39:39. | |
commitments. There are many people who run businesses from home in my | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
constituency and many quite significant rural businesses. There | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
is a fabulous business round the corner from where I live just | :39:48. | :39:50. | |
outside Faversham which makes amazing products out of maps. If any | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
of you are interested in making some interesting products with maps of | :39:56. | :40:01. | |
your constituencies, I recommend that you contact Bombast to get all | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
sorts of books, paper goods and lampshades made out of maps of your | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
constituency. On the other side of my constituency near Maidstone there | :40:11. | :40:13. | |
is a business which enables you to compare utility prices with around | :40:14. | :40:20. | |
100 employees. There is no way that business would exist without good | :40:21. | :40:24. | |
broadband so this is really, really important for the real economy. | :40:25. | :40:32. | |
It was around 12 years ago I was working at Warner and launching a | :40:33. | :40:43. | |
digital products and one of them was the UK's first video on demand | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
service so that you can download a film and one of the things we had to | :40:48. | :40:52. | |
do was plan ahead because if you wanted to watch that film you would | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
have two started downloading then go away and maybe cook something and | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
can back a couple of hours later and it would have downloaded enough to | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
be able to watch it if you were lucky. It might well have stopped | :41:05. | :41:10. | |
halfway through. At the time we were launching the product ever to that | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
ahead of 40 technology could do that now my children will sit down in | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
front of the television on a Sunday morning when tried to catch up on | :41:21. | :41:23. | |
some sleep and they will switch on the television and will be watching | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
something absolutely immediately with another delay which is turned | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
watching television into a completely different experience. I | :41:34. | :41:40. | |
very much welcome the Government's commitment to this but I would ask | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
them to press on with making sure that we get high-speed broadband to | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
100% of properties across constituencies like mine and also to | :41:50. | :41:55. | |
make sure the new technologies enabled in this bill like 5G and | :41:56. | :42:06. | |
Phil fibre broadband benefit not only those in urban areas but also | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
have benefits for those in the rural areas of the country. It shouldn't | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
be a simple sequential process as far as possible that you have the | :42:17. | :42:24. | |
kind of work your way and sometime in the distant future the eventually | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
get 5G. I am very keen that there should be almost some with these | :42:30. | :42:34. | |
technologies and that those in more rural areas may be able to catch up | :42:35. | :42:37. | |
thanks to the new forms of technology. It is particularly | :42:38. | :42:45. | |
important that this bill is going ahead and investing in these new | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
technologies in the challenging economic climate in which we live. | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
And the challenging economic times. I am very mental of the ageing | :42:55. | :43:04. | |
population -- I am very mindful of and the cost of that ageing | :43:05. | :43:11. | |
population and the dye desire to increase the page. We also face a | :43:12. | :43:18. | |
productivity challenge and we are not nearly as productive as a | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
country as we need to be for people to have a good and better standard | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
of living and we face global competition in this. I am pretty | :43:27. | :43:33. | |
realistic that unfortunately unlike the proposal from the Honourable | :43:34. | :43:39. | |
member opposite who wishes to raise a business rates and thinks | :43:40. | :43:47. | |
erroneously that that might increase revenue to spend on things like | :43:48. | :43:51. | |
public services, history tells us we very well know that increasing | :43:52. | :43:59. | |
business rates results in a fall in revenue and as he gave way to me I'm | :44:00. | :44:05. | |
me and I did give way to him. I merely want to correct the record | :44:06. | :44:08. | |
that is no stage did either I or the Labour Party say they wanted to | :44:09. | :44:15. | |
increase business rates. What we do want is to have a small increase in | :44:16. | :44:21. | |
corporation tax which would still result in as having one of the | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
smallest corporation taxes in the world. I appreciate him putting the | :44:26. | :44:31. | |
record straight because I have made an error amendments here and instead | :44:32. | :44:41. | |
of business rates, I did indeed mean to say and I was talking about | :44:42. | :44:45. | |
corporation tax and the point that I made earlier that we disagreed about | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
but the point in corporation tax does stand actually raising | :44:52. | :44:54. | |
corporation tax unfortunately results in a reduction in income and | :44:55. | :45:03. | |
revenue to the Government but I'm not happily give way. Was she is | :45:04. | :45:13. | |
shocked as I was that the front bench of Labour referred to the | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
small increase because the rate of 17 is most a 50% increase. That is | :45:19. | :45:26. | |
absolutely right and it is significant because as corporation | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
tax rates come down below 20%, businesses behave in different ways. | :45:32. | :45:33. | |
We are more likely to have businesses locate in this country, | :45:34. | :45:36. | |
invest in the business in this country, create jobs which is what | :45:37. | :45:46. | |
constituents want, to create jobs and also generate the revenue which | :45:47. | :45:48. | |
is then paid in taxes to fund public services. Order the matter of larger | :45:49. | :45:59. | |
increases, giving you you will be outraged about the 50% increase, you | :46:00. | :46:06. | |
must be absolutely distraught with the business rate evaluation that | :46:07. | :46:14. | |
are seen some go up by 200%. I think some respects we may agree, not with | :46:15. | :46:18. | |
the specifics of the point but has other members have said, we know | :46:19. | :46:22. | |
that business rates does need a further look as a system because I | :46:23. | :46:28. | |
am a happy with the way they tend to be nice high street shops and some | :46:29. | :46:36. | |
of my smaller towns. I have a constituency with the largest | :46:37. | :46:39. | |
employer is a brewer and pubs have really struggled with some increases | :46:40. | :46:42. | |
in business rates although I recognise in the efforts the | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
Chancellor made following lobbying to help pubs to help with the | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
changes to business routes but there was no question there is further | :46:52. | :46:55. | |
work to be done on business rates and that has been acknowledged by | :46:56. | :47:01. | |
the Government. Like to be corporation tax point, she is | :47:02. | :47:04. | |
absolutely right that the production has seen an increase in tax take and | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
that is the important thing, not looking at the rate but how much | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
taxes actually read in the final point is the one about jobs, record | :47:14. | :47:18. | |
level of employment across all other constituencies which is to be | :47:19. | :47:21. | |
welcomed and that is because we have businesses that want to expand and | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
take on more people. Thank you for that intervention. I will return to | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
talking about the content of the bill any moment but I am spending a | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
lot of time on this because the Honourable gentleman opposite spent | :47:36. | :47:42. | |
some time talking about corporation tax himself and I just think it is a | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
very important that we on the side of the House make clear that we are | :47:47. | :47:49. | |
absolutely committed to making sure that we can raise revenue for public | :47:50. | :47:56. | |
services. The last thing we want to see as tax changes that might seem | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
to gain any rate headlines but actually unfortunately have the | :48:03. | :48:04. | |
wrong effect on the bottom line from the Government's point of view and | :48:05. | :48:07. | |
we are absolutely committed to making sure we can raise revenue for | :48:08. | :48:11. | |
public services about which we care very much. But we recognise that to | :48:12. | :48:16. | |
do that you have to have a tax environment which is supportive to | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
businesses because they provide jobs and economic growth. To that point, | :48:22. | :48:26. | |
looking at economic growth at how we don't want people to have to just | :48:27. | :48:33. | |
work harder to keep up their standard of living, we know that as | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
an economy we need to be more productive and technology as the | :48:39. | :48:43. | |
crucial enabler of being more productive. That is exactly what | :48:44. | :48:52. | |
this bill is about supporting. For instance, 5G as a technology is and | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
will be a great enabler for instance of the intranet of things. Every | :48:57. | :49:04. | |
second around the world, 127 devices are a newly connected to the | :49:05. | :49:10. | |
intranet. 127 devices every second at the moment and that rate is | :49:11. | :49:19. | |
surely going to increase so the demand for connectivity and the | :49:20. | :49:21. | |
ability to carry large columns of data is only going to go up. It is | :49:22. | :49:26. | |
vital we are at the forefront of this. 5G is forecast to globally | :49:27. | :49:37. | |
boost economic value by four to $11 trillion by 2020. That is a huge | :49:38. | :49:43. | |
increase in economic value so it is vital that we as a country take our | :49:44. | :49:47. | |
share of that and that share of economic growth. What that will mean | :49:48. | :49:51. | |
in practice is things like the developments which will enable us to | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
have smart household appliances, driverless cars in due course and | :49:56. | :50:01. | |
one day driverless lorries which from my constituents are a very | :50:02. | :50:05. | |
unhappy about lorries parked openly buys a lot, could be in interesting | :50:06. | :50:16. | |
prospect. This is an issue we both face, the plight of residents and | :50:17. | :50:19. | |
businesses who are faced by HTV parking. I know this is something | :50:20. | :50:26. | |
she is passionate about, does she agree that as we advance in | :50:27. | :50:30. | |
technology we should be looking at different ways of doing business? I | :50:31. | :50:42. | |
am sure that the Honourable Lady will find an ingenious way of | :50:43. | :50:47. | |
relating the intervention from the other Honourable Lady precisely to | :50:48. | :50:53. | |
this bill. I can see a way of doing it, I'm sure the Honourable Lady | :50:54. | :51:01. | |
will succeed. Thank Q. I can see the frown on your face that might have | :51:02. | :51:09. | |
seemed like a stretch to go from telecommunications to lorry parking | :51:10. | :51:12. | |
but as 5G as an enabler of the internet of things and enabler of | :51:13. | :51:20. | |
driverless cars and lorries, run drivers were longer have to take | :51:21. | :51:23. | |
long breaks to sleep and that is the reason why they are part in the | :51:24. | :51:26. | |
lay-by is on our roads because the housekeeping. They have to do a | :51:27. | :51:32. | |
compulsory rest before they can keep driving but without a driver... | :51:33. | :51:33. | |
LAUGHTER . It does genuinely connect. To | :51:34. | :51:45. | |
return to what I was planning to talk about, another very important | :51:46. | :51:52. | |
application of 5G potentially as an health care and wearable devices. | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
For instance heart rate and blood pressure can be tracked. This is | :51:57. | :52:00. | |
very much part of the future of health care and preventative health | :52:01. | :52:03. | |
and happiness or look after ourselves and somebody who is very | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
committed to the NHS and make sure we have a sustainable NHS and | :52:08. | :52:10. | |
healthier population, I am very keen to make sure that we enable this | :52:11. | :52:17. | |
kind of health care development. Those are just a handful of examples | :52:18. | :52:21. | |
of what we hope that 5G may enable and we will hope to be at the | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
forefront of this technology by investing in it. The full fibre part | :52:26. | :52:32. | |
of this legislation I hope will be an end to what I often hear... You | :52:33. | :52:40. | |
have been generous with your time but before she moves away from 5G, | :52:41. | :52:45. | |
can we reflect on this point that it is important not to leave behind | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
those committees who have yet to clock on to 3G. And should have | :52:49. | :52:55. | |
constituency is the same there are areas for use of the car and get | :52:56. | :53:01. | |
access to 3G 4G Somerville 5G is to be welcomed, can she join me in | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
ensuring some areas are not left behind? There are parts of my | :53:06. | :53:14. | |
constituency which don't have 3G or 4G mobile signal to make a phone | :53:15. | :53:18. | |
call so absolutely I am very keen for the Government to intervene to | :53:19. | :53:27. | |
make sure that there is comprehensive mobile phone reception | :53:28. | :53:34. | |
across rural areas and also I hope we can do a catch up and go very | :53:35. | :53:40. | |
quickly straight to 5G very quickly in those areas. While we are on the | :53:41. | :53:49. | |
subject of areas at and Blackett alias, I wonder if she would agree | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
that there are a keeper at areas such as along really lines in my | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
constituency of Chelmsford, many of my constituents commute every day | :53:59. | :54:01. | |
and there is sophistry tee to be able to get a phone signal online, | :54:02. | :54:10. | |
real realignment that this bill will enable extra infrastructure to have | :54:11. | :54:12. | |
connected commuters would you think is key in the 21st century. | :54:13. | :54:18. | |
My honourable friend makes an important point, the focus on the | :54:19. | :54:23. | |
infrastructure along particular routes like rail lines and motorways | :54:24. | :54:28. | |
where it will be of particular benefit and I have commuters just as | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
she does who would like to be able to do more work on the train, which | :54:33. | :54:39. | |
that will enable. But I was just coming briefly before I conclude to | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
the point about full fibre broadband and how this should bring an end to | :54:44. | :54:49. | |
the problem that I often hear from BT engineers, the challenge of the | :54:50. | :54:54. | |
old last mile of those copper wires which are so very dated, some of | :54:55. | :54:59. | |
them over 100 years old, and though it is a technology that has served | :55:00. | :55:02. | |
us very well for many, many years, it is probably time to move on so | :55:03. | :55:07. | |
that people can genuinely get high-speed broadband and when you | :55:08. | :55:14. | |
live further away from the Cabinet and the traditional infrastructure. | :55:15. | :55:17. | |
I welcome the proposed legislation because I think this is very much | :55:18. | :55:21. | |
the right way of Government supporting this sort of development | :55:22. | :55:27. | |
of infrastructure, by incentivising and providing the conditions or | :55:28. | :55:31. | |
substantial private investment in that infrastructure which will | :55:32. | :55:35. | |
multiply by many, many, many times the level of investment that the | :55:36. | :55:39. | |
Government is making using taxpayer funds. But we've got the combination | :55:40. | :55:45. | |
of the 400 million digital infrastructure fund and the 60 | :55:46. | :55:49. | |
million business rate relief included in this legislation and | :55:50. | :55:57. | |
that amount of money should be wearable for the Government | :55:58. | :56:00. | |
financially, put it that way, but result in much, much greater scale | :56:01. | :56:05. | |
investment in the country's digital infrastructure which is what we sow, | :56:06. | :56:11. | |
so badly needs. And one point just to conclude with, very much thinking | :56:12. | :56:16. | |
of the younger voters who I know that I want to make sure we reach | :56:17. | :56:22. | |
out and communicate with, and I would say to younger voters to take | :56:23. | :56:28. | |
note. You may not be watching the Parliament channel on your Internet | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
connection, but actually this is an example of the Government is looking | :56:34. | :56:36. | |
ahead to the sort of economy that we need for the future, looking ahead | :56:37. | :56:40. | |
at investing in the infrastructure that we need so that we will be able | :56:41. | :56:45. | |
to compete globally, so we will be able to have a model economy, so we | :56:46. | :56:50. | |
will be able to have innovation, so we will have the kind of jobs and | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
the kind of economy that will provide opportunities for decades to | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
come for younger workers and provide us with the economic growth we need | :57:01. | :57:04. | |
to fund a high standard of living and the public services that we care | :57:05. | :57:13. | |
so much about. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I would begin, even | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
though he is no longer in his place, by thanking the member for North | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
Dorset and indeed my right honourable friend for Faversham and | :57:22. | :57:27. | |
Mid Kent for being so kind about the work I have done previously on | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
broadband. When the member for North Dorset said I would not speak in | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
this debate, I was going to leap to my feet like some sort of digital | :57:37. | :57:40. | |
gazelle, but I thought I would keep the House waiting and I know that | :57:41. | :57:46. | |
having done that, we have heard several very extensive speech is | :57:47. | :57:51. | |
going through the many benefits of Government investing in digital | :57:52. | :57:54. | |
infrastructure, so while I shall be somewhat brief, I would like to | :57:55. | :58:03. | |
begin just by using a phrase from my right honourable friend for | :58:04. | :58:06. | |
Faversham and Mid Kent is Ebersohn of her constituents were not able to | :58:07. | :58:10. | |
do something as old-fashioned as make a mobile telephone call. Now, | :58:11. | :58:16. | |
more about telephone calls are, in our modern world, pretty | :58:17. | :58:19. | |
old-fashioned, but we should not forget that it was not many years | :58:20. | :58:23. | |
ago in this place when they were simply impossible. Now, we have not | :58:24. | :58:29. | |
only been through the period of the invention of mobile phones, we have | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
been through a period where all of our constituents railed against the | :58:35. | :58:39. | |
installation of mobile phone masts and now we have come full circle as | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
they rail against the absence of mobile phone masts. So the digital | :58:45. | :58:50. | |
revolution has thoroughly revolved. I want to say simply three brief | :58:51. | :58:56. | |
points about this bill. The first about this particular approach to in | :58:57. | :59:02. | |
courage in digital infrastructure investment is to say that while the | :59:03. | :59:07. | |
Government is forgoing a certain amount of revenue with business | :59:08. | :59:11. | |
rates relief, it seems to me obvious that by fostering digital | :59:12. | :59:17. | |
information and digital infrastructure investments, the | :59:18. | :59:21. | |
amount that the Government will get back through the broader benefits of | :59:22. | :59:25. | |
economic growth will be many times greater than that which the business | :59:26. | :59:31. | |
rates themselves cost the state and cost the taxpayer and that is, to | :59:32. | :59:35. | |
me, seems like it is the definition of the way the Government should be | :59:36. | :59:42. | |
using public money. It is pumped prime it economic investment so that | :59:43. | :59:47. | |
we can see the kind of economy develops that works in the digital | :59:48. | :59:53. | |
way that we have heard our children will expect and which all modern | :59:54. | :59:58. | |
businesses already expect. So I would absolutely commend the | :59:59. | :00:04. | |
Government for taking that approach. I would add, however, that it is | :00:05. | :00:11. | |
also commendable that by making this a five-year term for relief which my | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
right honourable friend the Minister hinted could even go beyond five | :00:18. | :00:22. | |
years, then it incentivising firms to invest in putting in a Firebird | :00:23. | :00:29. | |
now, even if they do not turn it on, so to speak, for a number of years, | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
so what effectively happens is that we can get the economies of scale of | :00:34. | :00:40. | |
broader investments, I would hope, but we will see the continued | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
benefits of a business rate relief on this investment and that can only | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
be a good thing and it addresses some of the concerns that industry | :00:49. | :00:55. | |
has raised prior to the introduction of this piece of legislation. And it | :00:56. | :01:02. | |
is worth remembering that that growth in demand for fibre is only | :01:03. | :01:09. | |
going to increase. When I was a journalist writing about the launch | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
of the eye player, which the BBC cunningly launched on Christmas Day | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
because they knew the demand would be rather more limited, they did not | :01:17. | :01:23. | |
think for one minute that they themselves would be broadcasting in | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
four K, 2016, 2017, much less that we would live routinely in | :01:31. | :01:32. | |
households where half a dozen people wanted to download the four K | :01:33. | :01:41. | |
streams that broadcasters now routinely provide. And it is in no | :01:42. | :01:47. | |
small irony that when Basil Jette build London's Sirs, by all accounts | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
he offered quadruple the capacity that was required in Victorian | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
London -- servers. Now we see that that quadruple capacity is more than | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
exhausted by a growing population. We should take the same approach | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
when it comes to investing in our digital infrastructure. The fact | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
that there is a very prominent Basil Jette still involved in the life of | :02:14. | :02:19. | |
our digital nation is not in anyway to draw the comparison between these | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
sewage and the modern digital output with which he is involved. Big huge | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
benefits of the man who brought as Big Brother and a host of other | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
things are not to be considered in that way in the slightest. All we | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
can say is that this is a family who have contributed a huge amount of | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
the life of our nation at every level of infrastructure. But what I | :02:43. | :02:50. | |
would say to conclude these brief remarks is that there is never an | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
excuse in this day and age to underestimate the amount of digital | :02:57. | :03:05. | |
capacity that we will require. 4K may seem like it is pretty adequate | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
for our purposes today. We may look back on it in a number of years and | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
we will see it as a paltry amount compared to what we will be using on | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
a routine basis, whether it is virtual reality, whether it is | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
revellers cars, whether it is all the technologies that will totally | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
eradicate the digital scourge of flight parking that is my honourable | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
friend the member for Cannock Chase previously mentioned. So I think | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
that we should encourage the Government is not only to hasten | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
that this bill as quickly as it possibly can but we should further | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
encourage any Government to make sure that this sort of rate relief | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
applies to investment in digital infrastructure whether that is | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
mobile or whether it is fixed and in that way, to continue from the | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
launch of the iPlayer not all that long ago, the Internet of things | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
that is now coming upon us will be fully served and it will be thanks | :04:09. | :04:11. | |
to the investment of governments such as this one. Thank you. | :04:12. | :04:21. | |
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am very grateful to speak in this | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
even's debate and it is a real honour to follow my right honourable | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
friend, the member for Boston and Skegness who is a real expert in | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
this field and demonstrated in his contribution to night his expertise | :04:37. | :04:44. | |
in this whole world and I have to admit, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
am a technical dinosaur. When it comes to communication, if I had a | :04:49. | :04:56. | |
choice, e-mail, text or a telephone, every single time, I would like to | :04:57. | :05:02. | |
have a conversation. It takes an awful lot less time to actually pick | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
up the phone and have that conversation one than very lengthy | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
e-mails which often can take hours to construct by virtue of the need | :05:11. | :05:17. | |
to check on the content, and the tone, as well as the text message | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
which at the moment I have about eight messages all building up and I | :05:21. | :05:28. | |
will probably no doubt forget to respond to each and every one of | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
them. Turning to the bill this evening, I welcome the | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
telecommunications infrastructure built which provides business rate | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
relief for new fibre-optic infrastructure. This bill and these | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
measures form part of a wider package to encourage is widely | :05:48. | :05:54. | |
investment in our infrastructure and to help ensure that Britain remains | :05:55. | :06:01. | |
a digital world leader. The Bill will have homes and businesses | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
across the country having faster, more of portable and more reliable | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
broadband collectivity. This evening, we have heard from many | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
members across the House who have a very different constituency to mind. | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
Many of them are very rural. We have heard a lot from many members about | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
the issues in terms of collectivity both in terms of mobile and | :06:25. | :06:31. | |
broadband in rural areas. My constituency, Madam Deputy Speaker, | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
is very different. I have largely towns and one large village which is | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
Cannock, Kingsford and Northern Keynes. The amount of rural space in | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
my constituency is really rather limited. I see my honourable friend | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
the member for Oldridge Brownhills who is one of my new neighbours, | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
nodding away. She recognises what my constituency looks like. I have | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
these towns but then I have a forest. To be honest, Madam Deputy | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
Speaker, if you are driving through the forest of Cannock Chase, the | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
chances are in that conversation that I have been talking about, the | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
phone call will cut off. I have to add, I am on Bluetooth. But it is an | :07:13. | :07:20. | |
issue in some of those smaller rural parts of my constituency so these | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
measures that will make broadband and mobile access is much better | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
will be welcomed by people and businesses across the country, | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
including my constituency. I will happily give way. I am grateful to | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
my honourable friend and neighbour for giving way this evening. Would | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
she agree though that although all her constituency has some | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
similarities with mine, that it is not largely rural. Even in a | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
non-rural constituency, you still can find those not spots, not just | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
in the forest but within built-up areas as well. I are very grateful | :07:59. | :08:01. | |
for my honourable friend because she makes an absolutely perfect point | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
and I will come onto some specific issues as I go into my contributions | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
this evening. I think about my office in the heart of Hednesford, | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
on market Street in Hednesford, the centre of the town, and guess what? | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
When I sat in my office, more often than not I cannot make those | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
telephone calls because I do not have any mobile phone reception. | :08:23. | :08:31. | |
Then also when I go to and from my office to my home, invariably, the | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
mobile phone reception falls. Why is broadband and mobile access so | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
important? Some honourable members today have actually discussed some | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
of the ways in which it is key to family and our daily lives. Keeping | :08:47. | :08:52. | |
in contact with our friends across the world via Facebook and social | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
media, banking, we talked about the closing of banks on high Street | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
across the country because increasingly, people are doing their | :09:03. | :09:05. | |
banking online but you need to have that excellent online access to be | :09:06. | :09:12. | |
able to do that. Actually, one thing I am not sure any members have | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
mentioned this evening is being able to switch your energy supplier so we | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
talk about trying to get better rates for their energy, their gas | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
and outer city, but most of this is best done by looking online portals. | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
If you haven't got a good Internet access, then you are actually | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
restricted in terms of the deals that you can get. Then there are | :09:36. | :09:41. | |
other things we have talked about that watching TV, personally I just | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
turn the TV on which goes back to being a bit of a dinosaur, but I | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
understand a lot of people use OnDemand services. | :09:51. | :09:57. | |
My mother has never used a computer but we bought her and I play than | :09:58. | :10:07. | |
she is reliant on it for clinical eating Li relocating with people. | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
She has to have excellent broadband access and they want to command to | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
specific issues in terms of broadband access and the roar of | :10:16. | :10:31. | |
full fibre connectivity. I have a number of residents who complain of | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
painfully low broadband speeds. This is a new development on the edge of | :10:37. | :10:45. | |
the town which comprises around 130 houses despite being billed as a | :10:46. | :10:52. | |
superb collection of homes including three or four bedroom homes, | :10:53. | :10:55. | |
high-quality homes and a mix of House types to suit a range of | :10:56. | :11:01. | |
tastes, and easy access to the local amenities, to which I fully support | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
these are fantastic things and it is a fantastic development, the one | :11:06. | :11:08. | |
thing that local residents don't enjoy is a fast and reliable | :11:09. | :11:18. | |
broadband access. I'm building a new housing development, developers | :11:19. | :11:20. | |
install gas, electricity and water as a matter of course. We are in a | :11:21. | :11:28. | |
time of broadband is the fourth utility and the provision of | :11:29. | :11:30. | |
superfast broadband should be treated in the very same way. This | :11:31. | :11:37. | |
is not a problem unique to chase water drains. Looking online, and I | :11:38. | :11:45. | |
have done a lot of research on this issue, I have been reading endless | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
reports of residents of new developments up and down the country | :11:49. | :11:57. | |
facing similar issues. My honourable friend the member for North West | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
Hampshire actually made the point that this problem has been | :12:03. | :12:05. | |
recognised in last year an agreement was made between the Government, BT | :12:06. | :12:12. | |
Openreach and the house-builders Federation to insure that superfast | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
and ultrafast broadband connectivity would provided free Oracle funded by | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
open reached new development. This has been extended to all development | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
is with more than 30 homes and it will be connected for free. We are | :12:27. | :12:33. | |
rightly placing emphasis on building new homes, we talk about this issue | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
on a regular basis. I am pleased to see that this recognition that | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
actually broadband connectivity is as important as the other utilities. | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
This is something that home buyers expect. This is something | :12:51. | :12:56. | |
particularly important in my constituency because we are seeing | :12:57. | :12:58. | |
thousands of new homes are being built all the time. I drove around | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
the constituency and I never cease to be amazed by these developments | :13:04. | :13:11. | |
are up to. Grey level we are building homes all the time and we | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
need to make sure we have access to the main utilities but also | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
broadband as well. The moves that have been made by BT Openreach and | :13:20. | :13:26. | |
the House builders Federation, it's good news but the trouble is it's | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
not going to resolve the issues faced by those residents in my | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
constituency. I was very pleased to learn last week that they have made | :13:36. | :13:42. | |
some progress as a community to secure funding from both BT | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
Openreach and Teller bumpy to complete the work to install the | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
fibre -based broadband. The issue however is this still face a | :13:53. | :13:59. | |
shortfall in terms of funding and in the Aaron publication with superfast | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
Staffordshire and hope there will be successful in being able to secure | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
some assistance to be able to fill the gap and ensure that this fibre | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
broadband is connected. I hope as a result of this that the residents | :14:14. | :14:20. | |
will soon be able to enjoy the benefits of fast and reliable | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
broadband, that they will be able to do their banking, that the teenagers | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
will be able to do their homework online. We can all agree that that | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
is important that they can complete their assignments. Also that those | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
of residents that I know want to work for home can work from home. | :14:40. | :14:49. | |
But the issues in terms of broadband speed and just I was cited in my | :14:50. | :14:56. | |
constituency, I hope of other places who have been waiting years for this | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
connectivity to be made. Also those of small number of properties that I | :15:02. | :15:09. | |
do have my constituency. They are still waiting for connectivity as | :15:10. | :15:17. | |
well. However, I want to talk about a slightly more positive aspect of | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
broadband access, fast broadband access and it would take this | :15:23. | :15:25. | |
opportunity took about the opportunities that the redevelopment | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
of the region power station present in terms been able to tuck into | :15:31. | :15:33. | |
existing superfast broadband infrastructure. On this note, the | :15:34. | :15:44. | |
power station sits alongside the West Coast mainline and actually | :15:45. | :15:51. | |
this has the superfast broadband network of running the line so it is | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
right next to this piece of land. Equally the canal network in the | :15:57. | :15:58. | |
area has got this infrastructure as well. The power station site is | :15:59. | :16:06. | |
where we have the real grind and the canal structure, we also have the | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
National Grid infrastructure as well. It is a connectivity crossover | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
as I have described it before in this House and we need to make the | :16:16. | :16:24. | |
most of this. This is an ideal opportunity to ensure we attract | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
businesses that are high-tech and advanced manufacturing to can make | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
the best of this infrastructure. Equally as part of the site there | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
will be some new home developments and the need to have this kind of | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
broadband infrastructure to the doors, the superfast broadband line | :16:47. | :16:49. | |
is so close and we do need to make the most of it. We need to make the | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
most of it not just for today but for future generations. There is a | :16:54. | :17:00. | |
real opportunity to ensure that the regeneration of this power station | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
site attracts the businesses that will create the high skill jobs and | :17:05. | :17:14. | |
high low-paid jobs for future generations. As I have said and will | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
no doubt say again, we need to ensure that we have ambitious, bold | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
and visionary plans. That one other site in my constituency which is | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
where we have excellent digital infrastructure and we need to ensure | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
that we make the most of it. That is the South Staffordshire codgers | :17:36. | :17:47. | |
campus. -- college campus. Disappointing news that it was going | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
to shut given falling numbers but there was multi-million pound | :17:52. | :17:54. | |
investment in a few years ago and part of this investment was insuring | :17:55. | :17:56. | |
it had excellent digital infrastructure. This is an | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
opportunity to make the most of this as we look at the plans for the | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
future, we need to ensure we tap into this digital infrastructure as | :18:06. | :18:14. | |
well. I think it is probably many members who want to speak into this | :18:15. | :18:18. | |
evening is very important debate. Having said that, it is important to | :18:19. | :18:27. | |
come back to the bill we were discussing tonight because this is | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
part of a weight range of reforms that the Government undertaking to | :18:33. | :18:35. | |
ensure that we have excellent digital infrastructure and across | :18:36. | :18:46. | |
our country. I welcome this bill and welcomed what it will do to ensure | :18:47. | :18:49. | |
that my constituents and other constituents in this chamber will | :18:50. | :18:56. | |
have access to faster and more reliable broadband and will be able | :18:57. | :18:59. | |
to enjoy all the benefits that the intranet and e-mails of us. Thank | :19:00. | :19:11. | |
you. Thank you. As always it is a pleasure to follow my constituency | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
neighbour and honourable friend the member for Cannock Chase. It is a | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
pleasure to take part in this debate this evening. Before I get onto the | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
content on my speech I would like to acknowledge and thank the Minister | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
who is not in his place for giving me a very congruence of response to | :19:33. | :19:40. | |
what I thought was quite a simple and straightforward intervention | :19:41. | :19:43. | |
earlier today. -- comprehensive response. And when the five-year | :19:44. | :19:50. | |
limit in terms of the deadline for the business rate relief because it | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
was an important point and death through this bill we can incentivise | :19:55. | :20:02. | |
companies to get paint investment in digital infrastructure then that is | :20:03. | :20:05. | |
a good thing and it is very far-reaching and positive benefits. | :20:06. | :20:13. | |
But this bill didn't make me think a couple of things and rather like my | :20:14. | :20:16. | |
honourable friend the member for Cannock Chase referred to herself I | :20:17. | :20:22. | |
believe is a technology dinosaur, I would trade myself as a technophobe. | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
In recent weeks with the challenges we have had to roared into net | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
connections here in Parliament that has been frustrating to see the very | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
least and on many occasions I will say it is very handy to have a | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
member of staff and your team is a good bit younger than yourself | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
because I have found they know everything about the intranet and | :20:47. | :20:54. | |
have been a huge shock to me. I am also reminded about 20 or more years | :20:55. | :21:02. | |
ago when we first started to see internet appear. I use the word | :21:03. | :21:05. | |
appear because that's what it felt like. I remember our first internet | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
connection, it was a big thing to have internet Atul Madison to recall | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
there was such thing as wireless, there was a wire that led to | :21:15. | :21:17. | |
downstairs from upstairs and you have to plug it in and pluck it out | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
and it wasn't possible for more than one person to be on a computer at | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
the same time. How things have progressed, how things have changed. | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
I'm also reminded of the mobile phone that we first had, I couldn't | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
fit it in even my large handbag. It was more like the size of a brick | :21:37. | :21:42. | |
and it had an aerial on it and used to walk around and even had a | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
handset with a curly cable attached to it. Again I say how things have | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
progressed. You can imagine that he would be standing here this evening | :21:52. | :21:58. | |
talking about 5G... And I'm grateful. I have to say that perhaps | :21:59. | :22:07. | |
my nostalgia is greater than hers because actually my Nokia brick was | :22:08. | :22:10. | |
far more reliable than my Apple iPhone ever has been. I bow to his | :22:11. | :22:21. | |
judgment on that. I didn't have much chance to use the brick that we had | :22:22. | :22:28. | |
as my husband tended to have that is at least I do have my own iPhone | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
these days. Things have changed. We also see today the way that we can | :22:35. | :22:43. | |
stream films into our homes, we can download music and they even have | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
one of these boxes, I call it the beauty box that I can have in the | :22:48. | :22:50. | |
kitchen and move around the House and the case at the music from my | :22:51. | :22:56. | |
iPhone. It is amazing what you can do until it has changed lives. It | :22:57. | :23:03. | |
has also changed business, changed so many other things that we do. The | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
bill we are looking at this evening and debating, the telecoms | :23:08. | :23:14. | |
infrastructure bill is actively relatively short. It is so very | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
important and it gives effect to one of the number of commitments under | :23:19. | :23:21. | |
jockey medication is that are made in the Autumn Statement last year. | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
But it is also important because it aims to give very hacked it is some | :23:26. | :23:33. | |
fought to the Lord of full fibre broadband connections and five | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
Chibhabha publications. The meet up with infrastructure then | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
this post so often we are talking about roads and railways and | :23:43. | :23:50. | |
bridges. We are talking about very visible pieces of infrastructure, | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
very tangible items of infrastructure, obviously items of | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
infrastructure that really matter often to a local area are much more | :24:00. | :24:07. | |
originally on a national basis. But sometimes what may appear to be a | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
small has a much more far-reaching impact. This infrastructure bill to | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
me is about a piece of infrastructure that is far less | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
visible. We may see the green broadband boxes as we drive around | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
our constituencies but we don't see this full fibre broadband would be | :24:25. | :24:27. | |
no it is their rebuild no it is there because we will be able to | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
access it. Whilst it isn't visible, through this Bill that will enable | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
full fibre broadband to reach across England and Wales. I believe global | :24:39. | :24:46. | |
benefit residents and businesses across the country and across my | :24:47. | :24:53. | |
constituency. As we have had this evening, many honourable members | :24:54. | :24:56. | |
have given us examples of their broadband can make a difference in | :24:57. | :25:02. | |
their own constituencies. Whether as individual households, a small | :25:03. | :25:05. | |
retail business, a large manufacturer or a business park. Or | :25:06. | :25:08. | |
someone who is working in the gig economy. If they think my own | :25:09. | :25:17. | |
constituency, a lot of small and medium-size businesses are the | :25:18. | :25:19. | |
absolute backbone of our local economy. It is businesses that are | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
creating the jobs, businesses that has driven investment into driving | :25:25. | :25:30. | |
down unemployment. In developing the skills of four today and for the | :25:31. | :25:38. | |
future. Whether that be in the village centre retail shops, whether | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
it is one of many in the sparks, where we have a whole variety of | :25:43. | :25:44. | |
businesses. But these businesses, they could be | :25:45. | :25:53. | |
using the Internet to sell goods, they could be using the Internet for | :25:54. | :25:59. | |
ordering components for their business, some will use it for | :26:00. | :26:05. | |
customer services. It is now an integral part of business. Access to | :26:06. | :26:13. | |
the Internet is as important as electricity. If the lights go out, | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
power go off, if you have a manufacturing business, you can have | :26:20. | :26:22. | |
a situation where you cannot produce goods. Without the Internet your | :26:23. | :26:31. | |
business grinds to a halt. Yes, my honourable friend is right. Before | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
coming into this place, I worked in a business in the optical industry | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
and we relied on the Internet for processing orders, sending stock | :26:42. | :26:44. | |
orders back across into Europe and the minute the Internet went down, | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
all of a sudden we could do nothing at all, showing just how crucial | :26:50. | :26:57. | |
that connectivity is. So this bill will be absolutely vital. Under | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
current broadband and superfast broadband and mobile coverage, there | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
are still some of those so-called not sports which we have heard about | :27:08. | :27:15. | |
this evening. We have heard a lot of contributions from members | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
representing the more rural constituencies of the country. My | :27:20. | :27:22. | |
constituency does not fall into that category and I agree with my friend | :27:23. | :27:29. | |
there member for Cannock Chase that it is not just the rural | :27:30. | :27:35. | |
constituencies affected. We do have some not sports and in my own home I | :27:36. | :27:38. | |
find that from time to time I have to move around to get some | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
telephone, mobile connection and were it not for the Wi-Fi | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
connection, I would really struggle. I hope that the days of having to | :27:50. | :27:56. | |
lean out of the kitchen window are moved to a certain spot in the | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
living room to enable a pick-up of the mobile phone signal. Be a thing | :28:02. | :28:11. | |
of the past. But it is not just businesses, we have heard a lot | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
about business, it is not just about individuals, but I think also of the | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
many voluntary sector organisations and charities that are in my | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
constituency, many of them provide lifelines to local residents. They | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
also rely on the Internet, they rely on a good Internet connection and | :28:32. | :28:34. | |
that means through their web pages there is information out there 24 | :28:35. | :28:41. | |
hours a day so that people can pick up on that information. Through | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
Internet we're able to reach out much further than perhaps we could | :28:46. | :28:51. | |
in the past. But I also wanted to follow up on a point that a couple | :28:52. | :28:58. | |
of honourable friends made and that was related to demographics and | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
ages. Internet access is something that has the potential to cut across | :29:03. | :29:08. | |
all ages of society, whether you are an older person, through good | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
Internet access you can use the Internet to keep in touch with your | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
family, you can use Facebook, face time, things we did not have a fuel | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
years ago. If you have grandchildren living on the other side of the | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
country or the other side of town but you want to have that connection | :29:29. | :29:34. | |
with them, and it is much cheaper than using the telephone, that can | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
be facilitated through having a good Internet connection. I also think | :29:39. | :29:46. | |
about often when I go into a school, have a debate with young people | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
either primary school children or more often than not older, secondary | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
school children. The question will often come up, what does government | :29:56. | :30:02. | |
do for us as young people? Sitting here today has made me realise that | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
this is an excellent example of something that government is doing | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
that will help young people, not just older people but young people | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
as well, because they are the generation that rely and use and are | :30:17. | :30:22. | |
much more tax and phones savvy probably than all of us in here put | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
together, and I know I can speak about myself in regard to that. I am | :30:27. | :30:34. | |
sure my honourable friend will agree as it is that the age disparity we | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
have between young and old can be bridged through the Internet through | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
proper broadband and mobile connection, especially in rural | :30:45. | :30:47. | |
constituencies, those in Scotland and although some of these powers | :30:48. | :30:56. | |
have been devolved, unfortunately none of my SNP colleagues are here | :30:57. | :31:03. | |
tonight, but we recognise the importance Westminster can play in | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
giving funding and directing for broadband and mobile. It is England | :31:09. | :31:20. | |
and Wales and not Scotland. I am grateful to my honourable friend for | :31:21. | :31:23. | |
making that point. A very valuable point but I do think and I am sure I | :31:24. | :31:32. | |
will be corrected if I am wrong, that although this bill is for | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
England and Wales only, the Barnett Formula consequential is will apply. | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
My honourable friend from Scotland made a very valid point. This bill | :31:44. | :31:54. | |
that we are debating this evening, to me is about looking to the | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
future. It is about developing infrastructure for the future so | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
that we can take our country forward. As we seek to develop new | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
relationships and new partnerships in a post-Brexit world, this will | :32:08. | :32:14. | |
make that connectivity around the world so much easier and so much | :32:15. | :32:24. | |
better. If I turn now to the issue of business rates, only briefly, | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
because I believe that by providing the 100% business rate relief for | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
new for fibre infrastructure which this bill will enable, but for a | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
period of five years, I hope and trust this will provide an incentive | :32:39. | :32:45. | |
and an encouragement to telecommunications to get on with | :32:46. | :32:52. | |
the job and delivering what clearly week in this House want to see and I | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
hope that together with the universal service obligation will | :32:57. | :33:01. | |
start to make a real and significant difference to our constituents. Also | :33:02. | :33:07. | |
that in doing that we are able to make big contributions to closing | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
the digital divide, that digital divide that we have heard so much | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
about this evening. And that we can help to get higher quality, more | :33:17. | :33:22. | |
reliable connectivity into households and businesses because | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
that is what I want in my constituencies and that clearly is | :33:27. | :33:29. | |
what other members in this House want also. But this enclosing for me | :33:30. | :33:39. | |
is also about supporting a bill and supporting a government that is | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
investing in our country, investing in our infrastructure and investing | :33:44. | :33:51. | |
in the livelihoods and futures of not just today's generation but | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
tomorrow is as well, so I will be supporting this bill this evening. | :33:56. | :34:02. | |
It is a pleasure to follow my honourable friend who address the | :34:03. | :34:09. | |
substance of this important bill with her customary attention to | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
detail and indeed her personal reflections on the progress that the | :34:14. | :34:16. | |
Internet has made and they change it has made to all of our lives I thing | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
has been enormously valuable this evening. Let me go to the core of | :34:21. | :34:29. | |
the bill first and then let me explain why I believe this is so | :34:30. | :34:33. | |
important. I do believe that it is excellent that this bill will | :34:34. | :34:39. | |
provide for 100% business rate relief for for fibre infrastructure | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
for a five-year period from the 1st of April 2000 and 17. It is also | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
very important that this is backdated so that it will truly | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
support telecommunications companies who invest in their fibre network, | :34:54. | :35:00. | |
but what is also important is that the Government will cover the full | :35:01. | :35:03. | |
costs of this relief and I say that someone who has been a former | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
councillor, who knows the impact that government release can make | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
local government and it is important to note government has said here | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
because of the importance of this measure, that the Government will | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
meet the full costs of this belief. I am grateful to my honourable | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
friend and indeed my honourable friend is a member for South | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
Perthshire for mentioning the impact on Scotland because of course this | :35:32. | :35:40. | |
bill has territorial to England and Wales but the Barnett Formula | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
applies. So it is important to recognise how it affects the whole | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
of the UK. There are varying constituencies today, urban, rural | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
both tightly packed in urban settings button so more sparsely | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
located in rural settings and superfast broadband paste on part | :36:01. | :36:06. | |
five, part copper technology as today is now available to 93% of | :36:07. | :36:12. | |
premises. That is good progress and we have heard from my honourable | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
friend the progress the Internet has made. I recall having the dial-up | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
modem which would be the way which would connect you then to 25 | :36:23. | :36:31. | |
kilobits and to be able to do this time or Skype would have been | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
inconceivable in those days. We have made huge progress and 93% of | :36:36. | :36:40. | |
premises being able to access the part copper, part fibre service is | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
good news, this relief provides I believe and the Minister will | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
correct me if I am wrong, ?60 million worth of support to | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
companies who invest in their fibre network by installing new fibre | :36:54. | :37:01. | |
lines and virgin media and it is important at this point to deviate | :37:02. | :37:05. | |
and demonstrate the shows the importance of having a competitive | :37:06. | :37:08. | |
corporation tax regime, which has been noted already today, which | :37:09. | :37:15. | |
means companies like liberty have invested in Britain and have bought | :37:16. | :37:18. | |
virgin media and are now taking it forward and I would have thought | :37:19. | :37:25. | |
this will boost virgin media's ?3 billion project expansion as well as | :37:26. | :37:32. | |
plans by Beattie opened the each -- BT Openreach to increase its | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
investment in fibre optics and also to help smaller alternative players | :37:38. | :37:44. | |
which as my honourable friend reference have been priced out of | :37:45. | :37:51. | |
the market in the past. Due to the impact of business rates along with | :37:52. | :37:53. | |
some other competitive and regulatory pressures. I welcome the | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
Government's aim through this and other measures to provide superfast | :38:00. | :38:07. | |
broadband, speeds of 24 megabits per second or more, for at least 95% of | :38:08. | :38:13. | |
the UK. That is progress beyond what we have achieved today, but I think | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
we should go further and that is why I am pleased that in the digital | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
economy act 2017 the act provided for every household to have a legal | :38:23. | :38:30. | |
right, a legal right to request fast broadband connection. I am grateful | :38:31. | :38:42. | |
that he mentions 95%. I don't apologise for reinforcing this point | :38:43. | :38:45. | |
because it is important. There are still 5%, many of whom are | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
constituencies left out, so will he join me in pressing the Government | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
to ensure this is universal and do we do welcome the measures set out | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
in the bill, we are still speaking out for constituents still waiting. | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
As ever my honourable friend makes a very important and cogent point | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
here. He is right to champion the interest for 100% of the UK and that | :39:12. | :39:18. | |
is why the universal service obligation is so important and it is | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
only a first step towards making sure that Britain is the most | :39:23. | :39:29. | |
competitive country and is the place that other businesses based | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
elsewhere in the world want to do business in the future, and as my | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
honourable friend also noted, that is even more important in a | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
post-Brexit world. We must make sure that we are match fit and ready to | :39:44. | :39:50. | |
go in the next century. That is why it is important that every household | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
has a legal right to request fast broadband connection and as has | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
become customary at some of the exchanges we listen to on Wednesday, | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
I want to reference the few points made by some of my constituents. | :40:05. | :40:15. | |
Some of my constituents in hazy league get less than half of 1 | :40:16. | :40:20. | |
megabit per second and that is unacceptable. In fact, they say it | :40:21. | :40:27. | |
is worse than that because they say they have too much downtime because | :40:28. | :40:30. | |
the current connection is unreliable. It is not just homes and | :40:31. | :40:39. | |
individuals and families that are affected, but diversify rural | :40:40. | :40:42. | |
businesses. I got a quote from my constituent who said just yesterday | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
I saw a third visit this week by Openreach to my neighbour will stop | :40:48. | :40:52. | |
I took the perpetuity to talk to the engineer who confirmed there was a | :40:53. | :40:59. | |
major problem, perhaps with the old underground cabling to the area | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
simply giving up. He also confirmed that none of the line managers are | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
likely to take this further because of the cost to Beattie to supply | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
cabling would be too high. Not only is the company dealing with | :41:12. | :41:24. | |
old underground cabling that is simply giving up and was introduced | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
for technologies that are now old-fashioned, as another member | :41:29. | :41:36. | |
referenced but also, it is tackling the cost that applies to businesses | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
through business rates and other regulatory matters, particularly | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
business rates, the costs have been prohibitive in helping businesses | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
invest. I was a British British-American parliamentary group | :41:51. | :42:01. | |
in Tennessee, where the weather was almost as good as it has been here | :42:02. | :42:07. | |
recently. What is important is that I found a ?70 million grant, and | :42:08. | :42:14. | |
there is a population of just over 500,000 people in Chattanooga, a ?70 | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
million grant had not local people in Chattanooga notched 24 megabits | :42:20. | :42:25. | |
per second, which is the Government's measure of success in | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
this phase of superfast broadband, but one GB per second and that was | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
through what the Government is trying to do today, fibre to the | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
premises, not just to the Cabinet, so this is absolutely right, as a | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
way forward. But coming back across the pond, to the seat of the Duke of | :42:46. | :42:56. | |
Wellington, the exchange there is the problem because at present, the | :42:57. | :43:08. | |
broadband connection given to my constituents say, and I'm sure | :43:09. | :43:16. | |
undoubtedly others, come from across the county boundary instead of | :43:17. | :43:19. | |
within the county of Hampshire. Bramley is closer than the current | :43:20. | :43:28. | |
location and so the length of cabling required from the exchange | :43:29. | :43:34. | |
to the home would be cut in half if it was from Bramley. This shows the | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
lack of flexibility in the system today, where we really need to make | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
sure it is the right technology in the right places to serve people in | :43:44. | :43:50. | |
the 21st century, not the convenience of telecommunications | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
operators from the 20th. And in Bramley, some are neither | :43:56. | :44:05. | |
Basingstoke but they're connected via cables from Bramley which are | :44:06. | :44:08. | |
steel and not copper because apparently when those cables when | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
installed by BT, at that point state-owned, not sure of the party | :44:14. | :44:19. | |
opposite wish to renationalise that as well... The honourable gentleman | :44:20. | :44:29. | |
said it is a possibility! Perhaps he would like to clarify the matter at | :44:30. | :44:36. | |
the dispatch box but the point being, that BT at the time said, it | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
is all right, we don't face any competition we will just shove some | :44:41. | :44:43. | |
steel cabling in there and it doesn't matter what happens to local | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
people. When it was analog telephone technology that was fine but in this | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
new digital age, we need to make sure people have the right | :44:53. | :44:55. | |
technology to their doorstep and that is why we must tackle this head | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
on. I don't want to be totally critical of BT, they have done good | :45:01. | :45:08. | |
work and have shown flexibility in the way things are delivered, for | :45:09. | :45:15. | |
example, in the parish of Ennis field in my constituency, BT came up | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
with a match funding scheme which said if the community can raise some | :45:20. | :45:25. | |
of the money, BT will put in half. I think that is innovative for a rural | :45:26. | :45:32. | |
community. But therein lies the problem, no one should be penalised | :45:33. | :45:38. | |
for what is, as my honourable friend, the member for Cannock | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
Chase, rightly set out, is now a utility. It is something people | :45:43. | :45:50. | |
should be able to accept and so, to charge people ?558 per dwelling is | :45:51. | :45:57. | |
not only on the cusp of what BT might ordinarily provide as a | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
commercial arrangement, but actually was penalising those resident in | :46:03. | :46:06. | |
rural areas for a living where they do. I am grateful, can I move to | :46:07. | :46:17. | |
Dorset and endorse what he is saying, advocating greater | :46:18. | :46:19. | |
flexibility in saying there is some good work being done but more could | :46:20. | :46:25. | |
be done. Would he not agree to any to see flexibility, not in | :46:26. | :46:29. | |
Hampshire, but across the piece, where that are difficult rural | :46:30. | :46:35. | |
issues, there should be sensible solutions? My honourable friend | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
makes an important further contribution to this debate, he is | :46:41. | :46:44. | |
correct and if I can take him back to the exchange and remarks by the | :46:45. | :46:52. | |
member for North West Hampshire, he pointed out breaks it an opportunity | :46:53. | :47:00. | |
here because European legislation got in the way of allowing local | :47:01. | :47:02. | |
communities to come up with solutions. When I was a local | :47:03. | :47:08. | |
councillor, there was a measure introduced called Kitty, a new way | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
of providing match funding from the Borough Council. And then that was | :47:13. | :47:15. | |
ruled out of order because it was deemed state aid and through careful | :47:16. | :47:23. | |
financial management, we kept council tax down and used excellent | :47:24. | :47:27. | |
initiatives by this Government in match funding and helping local | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
councils keep tax down but further, that money that we had saved and | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
wanted to put to good use for the residents of Basingstoke and steam | :47:38. | :47:39. | |
in North Hampshire could not be used because of state aid rules. Would | :47:40. | :47:49. | |
she give way? I am very grateful to the honourable gentleman for the | :47:50. | :47:52. | |
important point he is making. The combination of local Government and | :47:53. | :47:58. | |
local IT companies. We have a similar situation in my | :47:59. | :48:04. | |
constituency, but through good local governments and the freedom of local | :48:05. | :48:10. | |
companies with sensibly managed local finances, that is where we can | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
find the solution to the internet shortages. I thank my honourable | :48:15. | :48:23. | |
friend for that point and he is right, this is all part of the | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
competitive nature we need to try and show his supported and provide | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
local solutions to local problems. Mr Deputy Speaker, I am sure you are | :48:33. | :48:38. | |
aware that the County Council has been working to go beyond 96% | :48:39. | :48:41. | |
connectivity in the county of Hampshire... And if you weren't | :48:42. | :48:53. | |
aware, you are now! Is to Deputy Speaker, that could be met if we had | :48:54. | :48:59. | |
local firms meeting the 4% shortfall. If we allow local firms | :49:00. | :49:05. | |
to bid for further funding from the state, not hindered by EU state aid | :49:06. | :49:09. | |
rules but indeed further supported by these business rates initiatives, | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
we would close at 4% cap without a shadow of a doubt. And if I can turn | :49:15. | :49:23. | |
now from BT, who have had a great benefit from the current dismissed | :49:24. | :49:30. | |
rates arrangement to Virgin Media, who should benefit, as I outlined | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
earlier in passing but it is important to talk a little bit more | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
to outline the importance of this two British companies based in my | :49:40. | :49:41. | |
constituency, their corporate headquarters is in Coke in my | :49:42. | :49:50. | |
constituency, so they actually are running a competition through their | :49:51. | :49:53. | |
own commercial judgment to supercharge local communities and | :49:54. | :50:01. | |
though they haven't supercharged Hook yet, they have agreed to | :50:02. | :50:07. | |
supercharge Hartley Whitney and Phoenix Green, just down the road | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
and that means that they will have ultrafast fibre to the premise very | :50:12. | :50:16. | |
shortly, which is good news because those residents will get a head | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
start on what the Government aspires the home of the country to receive, | :50:22. | :50:27. | |
they will receive 52 premises, which means they will be eligible to get | :50:28. | :50:30. | |
one gigabit per second telecommunication connectivity that | :50:31. | :50:38. | |
is critical for the future. Businesses will benefit as well, not | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
just households. In Yateley, Samsung has its European quality control | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
centre. If we want those technical businesses to be based in | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
constituencies like mine, we need to make sure they have the connectivity | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
to match. Samsung being the technical giant it is, it needed | :50:58. | :51:04. | |
more than perhaps anyone else. So, it is absolutely brilliant news to | :51:05. | :51:08. | |
hear that these business rates initiatives will be introduced. But | :51:09. | :51:14. | |
it's not just the Giants, the small businesses also and in Fleet, there | :51:15. | :51:22. | |
is a business called CV library, set up in 2000 in the dot-com boom | :51:23. | :51:29. | |
mirror, a different internet era but an internet business it remains. And | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
it is very successful, it was set up by a young carpet fitter and it is | :51:34. | :51:39. | |
now the UK's third biggest job sport, which has thrived on the | :51:40. | :51:44. | |
great number of new jobs created under the economic management of | :51:45. | :51:52. | |
this Government. And it is one of the top 500 most visited website in | :51:53. | :52:01. | |
the UK. This is a well reputed website. This small business, set up | :52:02. | :52:12. | |
in 2000, has come a long, long way. Resume library is now allowing this | :52:13. | :52:16. | |
business to operate in the United States and it is now thriving as an | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
international business but again, just like Samsung, if we want these | :52:22. | :52:23. | |
businesses to be based outside of the main towns and cities, outside | :52:24. | :52:30. | |
of London, across the country, making sure we create an economy of | :52:31. | :52:36. | |
the nations and regions, not just of London, then we need connectivity | :52:37. | :52:43. | |
that serves businesses like CV library, allowing them to thrive and | :52:44. | :52:46. | |
connect with the world, as they have done with resume library and as I am | :52:47. | :52:52. | |
sure they will do in the future. Incidentally, they were the first | :52:53. | :52:56. | |
jobs website to allow people to apply for jobs on a mobile phone. | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
And I will come to that in a moment because I think that is also a very | :53:01. | :53:07. | |
important point. One resident in Bramley said to me, he found it | :53:08. | :53:14. | |
incredible that we are surrounded by much better services and yet it | :53:15. | :53:19. | |
appears we are unable to access fees. People like this resident are | :53:20. | :53:24. | |
used to going on their mobile phone, connecting to 4G and yet, in their | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
House, on fixed broadband, they cannot connect to the decent | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
service. He was told by BT, he says, that it is not possible to switch | :53:34. | :53:38. | |
exchanges. This is the point I raised earlier, from one to another | :53:39. | :53:41. | |
because it was simply too difficult. In the mobile mirror and the mobile | :53:42. | :53:46. | |
age where people can go about their daily business Valley walk to work, | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
it is not acceptable for something to simply be too difficult to a | :53:51. | :53:56. | |
monopoly provider. We must invent on the Government is doing this. And | :53:57. | :54:01. | |
that's why it's important the Government encourages this fool | :54:02. | :54:07. | |
fibre initiative. 100% business rate relief is focused on that fool | :54:08. | :54:12. | |
fibre, fibre to the premises initiative and indeed the digital | :54:13. | :54:15. | |
infrastructure investment fund has been designed to incentivise this | :54:16. | :54:19. | |
also. Traditionally, in Britain, it has been difficult to pronounce this | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
because the industry has been relatively young and there's a lack | :54:24. | :54:25. | |
of certainty that has existed around future demand, which is meant | :54:26. | :54:31. | |
investment has been difficult to secure. So, I hope the digital | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
infrastructure investment fund will pass these business rates | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
initiatives and ignite interest from private finance to invest in the | :54:41. | :54:44. | |
sector, an important sector, a critical part of infrastructure, | :54:45. | :54:50. | |
just like roads and rail, and I hope it will draw in private interest | :54:51. | :54:55. | |
that we really do need. And indeed, as my honourable friend mentioned, | :54:56. | :55:02. | |
drawing in private finance means this market will be more competitive | :55:03. | :55:08. | |
and it will allow local solutions to rise up and meet the needs of local | :55:09. | :55:10. | |
people. For fibre networks are so much more | :55:11. | :55:19. | |
resilient than the traditional copper networks. A constituent told | :55:20. | :55:23. | |
me the copper cabling was failing and that is because most Internet in | :55:24. | :55:35. | |
Britain's homes is delivered by copper cables. From the Green | :55:36. | :55:41. | |
cabinet that my honourable friend reference, the Green cabinet is that | :55:42. | :55:47. | |
people see springing up so that they can be enabled for fibre but still | :55:48. | :55:51. | |
the final part of the service is delivered by copper. These wires can | :55:52. | :55:57. | |
be degraded by distance as has been the case for my constituents, indeed | :55:58. | :56:06. | |
the constituents in Bramley have a long distance from the exchange, | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
whereas for fibre networks seek to run the connection straight to the | :56:12. | :56:15. | |
doors of customers homes or businesses and that is why I make | :56:16. | :56:21. | |
one plead to the Government. In planning law, planning legislation | :56:22. | :56:30. | |
there is still no capability for local councils to mandate on new | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
developments solving the problem that my honourable friend | :56:35. | :56:41. | |
referenced. There is no capability for local councils to mandate the | :56:42. | :56:50. | |
new developments but the only requirement they can make is there | :56:51. | :56:53. | |
will be a telephone connection to way home. If it is done on a scale, | :56:54. | :57:02. | |
the cost is marginalised if at all existent, but the fact that it is | :57:03. | :57:05. | |
made difficult for councils to mandate this could be something that | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
government does very easily and would be transformational in the new | :57:10. | :57:13. | |
homes that the Government aspires to build across the whole of the United | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
Kingdom. My honourable friend mentions copper and he mentioned the | :57:20. | :57:26. | |
fact that the wire can be degraded by age and distance, but it is also | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
by volume of traffic and will he agreed that on a Saturday night when | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
there is a popular programme on and more people want to be streaming or | :57:37. | :57:40. | |
gaming, the whole system grinds to a halt and that is part of the | :57:41. | :57:46. | |
degradation process as well. He is absolutely right. The capacity of | :57:47. | :57:52. | |
copper is insufficient for today's challenges and we must make sure | :57:53. | :57:57. | |
that we are not only dealing with today's challengers but tomorrow's | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
also so we must make sure there is more fibre than we today because we | :58:03. | :58:08. | |
do not want a situation, perhaps five, ten years from now whether | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
fibre we have installed today is not good enough for the challenges of | :58:14. | :58:20. | |
tomorrow. In turning to the challenges of tomorrow, it is | :58:21. | :58:24. | |
important to consider mobile communications which is enabled by | :58:25. | :58:29. | |
fibre broadband, Firebird linking the mobile mast together, five are | :58:30. | :58:33. | |
providing the connectivity to users via the mast who want to connect to | :58:34. | :58:40. | |
their banking on their phone as has been referenced by a number of | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
members. And deploying mobile infrastructure does remain | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
challenging at times, particularly in those remote locations or food | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
then more difficult topography, so it is important reconsidered the | :58:54. | :59:02. | |
viability of these initiatives as we move from 4G 25 G and remedying | :59:03. | :59:10. | |
those communities who have not moved to three or 4G in the first place. | :59:11. | :59:14. | |
We must make sure those initiatives are viable so that no one is left | :59:15. | :59:20. | |
behind. Indeed mobile telecommunications can be an | :59:21. | :59:24. | |
excellent way of providing mobile broadband, fast broadband to rural | :59:25. | :59:29. | |
communities instead of running fibre to those homes. It could be part of | :59:30. | :59:34. | |
the solution, part of dealing with the final 4% is indeed to make sure | :59:35. | :59:41. | |
there is fibre run to mobile masts that is then accessible to those | :59:42. | :59:46. | |
rural communities. Juicing operating costs is critical to make sure the | :59:47. | :59:51. | |
potential economic viability of these sites is considered properly. | :59:52. | :59:55. | |
I am sure the Government will consider this in the deliberations | :59:56. | :00:00. | |
they will have a head. Targeted business rates relief to enable | :00:01. | :00:05. | |
fibre cabling to be rolled out to those hard to reach areas would be | :00:06. | :00:11. | |
particularly helpful in not spots that are badly served by telecoms to | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
date, could be much better served by telecoms in the future. It is | :00:18. | :00:22. | |
important to prioritise sites like railways and motorways as has been | :00:23. | :00:27. | |
referenced by my honourable friend for Faversham Kent. The honourable | :00:28. | :00:33. | |
member for Chelmsford who demonstrated that connectivity, | :00:34. | :00:44. | |
connected commute was the term, connected can need Firebird... I | :00:45. | :00:52. | |
have let a lot of leeway and I do not want to get too involved in 4G, | :00:53. | :01:00. | |
five G, absolutely nothing to do with what we are discussing and I | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
know you have been asked to filibuster. With so many more | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
speakers to con you might deprive them! Filibuster never, informed the | :01:11. | :01:21. | |
nation! But it has to be on the subject we are discussing. We will | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
be talking about cricket next, come on! Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. | :01:26. | :01:39. | |
Perhaps I can demonstrate... Mr Deputy Speaker suggests this is a | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
filly Buster, my honourable friend has hardly cleared his throat! The | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
worry is I have heard too much already. You are very kind in your | :01:48. | :01:55. | |
last remark but I shall be bringing my remarks to a close very shortly. | :01:56. | :02:03. | |
I'd just do think it is important to recognise the way that fibre which | :02:04. | :02:10. | |
will be enabled by these initiatives, new fibre rolled out | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
and business rates relief, that new fibre does allow for better mobile | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
connectivity in those hard to reach areas. On the topic of | :02:18. | :02:28. | |
infrastructure, I think he makes a good point around infrastructure | :02:29. | :02:31. | |
linked to railways and roads but would he not agree that airports | :02:32. | :02:40. | |
need infrastructure there as well? I have a suggestion for the House. I | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
think we ought to put in another adjournment debate. As ever you make | :02:45. | :02:53. | |
an excellent suggestion there. I will speak to third honourable | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
gentleman in due course. As we allow fibre to be rolled out through this | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
relief, to areas that have not been accessible in the past, I think it | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
is important they reflect on the way that consumers, people are changing | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
their behaviour. People are moving to mobile, we need to make sure that | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
accessibility to the mobile networks, to the fibre network is | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
possible and that is why it is critical we work with people like | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
Network Rail to roll-up on their land as well as well as across other | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
people's land, but it is in contrast as my honourable friend referenced, | :03:32. | :03:40. | |
to the way in which we used to work, the way in which we used to work and | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
it is important that people are helped along this journey, because | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
if we want to roll out more fibre, we need to make sure there is demand | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
for red otherwise it is not commercially viable. We need to | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
reduced operating costs, we are doing that through relieving | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
business rates from new fibre rolled out but it is good to see new | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
digital training opportunities that are being created, the new digital | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
skills partnership seeing government, business and charities | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
come together, so this is really positive news. Indeed I should | :04:16. | :04:23. | |
declare an interest, refer members to the plan by Lloyds Banking Group | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
to give face-to-face digital skills training to 2.5 million people by | :04:28. | :04:34. | |
2020. Indeed a pledge by Google as part of their commitment to five | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
hours of free digital skills also. This is something adopted by | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
business. Let me conclude by saying that this strategy and these plans | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
do demonstrate that the Government takes businesses and people | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
seriously in rolling out fibre broadband to people across the | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
country. It is part of cuts to business rates, it is part of cuts | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
to business rates to the benefit of all ratepayers and it is part of the | :05:06. | :05:12. | |
Government's focus on making sure that we do create an economy that | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
serves the whole of this country, all of the nations and regions and | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
indeed it is about making sure that the Government is committed to the | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
long-term reforms of our economy. Who would have thought that Ali | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
Babar and Amazon would be the big retailers of today not the | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
greengrocer on the high Street? Who would have thought we would be | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
speaking to people across the world instead of flying to see them? Who | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
would have thought that people would be able to watch this speech on | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
their mobile phone rather than read it, there I say in hindsight? I am | :05:51. | :06:01. | |
sure many will. Sorry? Can I just say, I have a problem, I did not | :06:02. | :06:08. | |
expect to bring in a time limit. Can I just so, I do not want to put a | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
time limit on but if you think we have something up in about an hour | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
and we are still five speakers to come so if we aim for 12 minutes. | :06:19. | :06:34. | |
Thank you. The words that will bring in my ears, filibuster never, inform | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
the nation always. That is a lesson for us all. I will give you an extra | :06:41. | :06:51. | |
lotion. -- lesson. You have to inform the nation on the subject we | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
discuss. Of course, Mr Deputy Speaker. Thank you for that kind | :06:58. | :07:04. | |
reminder. This bill matters. And as my honourable friend the member for | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
Wantage, the former minister in this area mentioned, it is right that | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
this is not necessarily the most thrilling of bills. It is relatively | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
short, six clauses. As a former lawyer I can appreciate that | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
actually brevity is often harder than writing something very long, so | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
I admire the ability of the draughtsman of this bill for putting | :07:30. | :07:38. | |
together something so succinct. I believe that this bill should have | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
strong support not just from government benches but also from all | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
sides of this House as has already been indicated from speakers from | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
the opposition benches. My constituents only 30 to 40 miles | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
from central London face very patchy broadband coverage in many areas. I | :07:58. | :08:05. | |
appreciate the point made by my honourable friend the member for | :08:06. | :08:08. | |
Wantage that often it is harder to get broadband in spread out villages | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
and rural areas than it is in Tower blocks and urban areas and I | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
appreciate that point, but for example in the village of Kimbolton, | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
slap bang in the middle of my constituency, it has bad would ban | :08:25. | :08:31. | |
reception. Some statistics to back this point up. No resident or | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
business receives superfast broadband, not one. We are in the | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
bottom 7% of the country for average download speed and we are in the | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
bottom 0.5% for connections of over 30 megabytes, so there is still a | :08:49. | :08:56. | |
job to do and I would just with do deference as a new member say to the | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
Government, we still do have a job connecting up existing rural areas | :09:01. | :09:09. | |
and we should not forget that. I thank the member for giving way. As | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
he knows my 92-year-old aunt lives in the village of Kimpton. Would he | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
agree with me that it is most important in rural areas where there | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
are older people living in the community that we have access that | :09:24. | :09:26. | |
keeps them engaged with their friends and family? I would agree | :09:27. | :09:40. | |
and also ad that it is not just important that people are connected | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
to friends and family but the converse is one of loneliness in | :09:44. | :09:50. | |
many respects. We live in a society increasingly atomised that it is | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
helpful for older members to make sure that they have that fall | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
digital connectivity and that is another reason for this bill being | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
important. In a recent meeting, a business owner told me that in her | :10:04. | :10:09. | |
business situated in a rural area, it takes three days to back-up | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
server such as the slow download speed. | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
Business rates relief for the installation of fibre broadband will | :10:20. | :10:28. | |
provide an incentive for investors and that point has been made by | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
several members, not least the member for North East Hampshire. But | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
it is, I think, important to consider why. In the broader sense, | :10:39. | :10:46. | |
having world's leading digital structure is important, why are we | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
all here? I shall offer a few observations to the House. We are | :10:52. | :11:00. | |
going through a new industrial revolution. Technology, powered | :11:01. | :11:07. | |
largely by the internet, is powering a global future and we need to be | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
the heart of this in this country and fool fibre broadband, rolling | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
this out is central to that charge. This Bill will make that easy, it | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
will enable small businesses in rural areas like mine to have access | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
to the superfast they need and as the Minister of State said earlier, | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
it will break down barriers to business, something that I know | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
everybody at least on our side wants to see. This Bill also shows that | :11:32. | :11:42. | |
Government can, in limited ways, and when the time is right, provide | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
innovative solutions to help solve some of the biggest problem is | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
choking up areas of our economy. We need to strongly support the free | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
market, free enterprise, with the Government intervention, with little | :11:56. | :12:02. | |
Government intervention, unless necessary, but we do need to be bold | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
and I believe this Bill is bold and the Government actions are bold. We | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
need to use the tools of Government to allow the private sector to work | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
more efficiently and be incentivise to provide better results for our | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
constituents, who are, after all, the people who sent us to this place | :12:20. | :12:27. | |
on their behalf. Business rate relief is very welcome and many of | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
my right honourable friends and members on opposition benches have | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
mentioned this fact, but I urge the Government to also make sure we | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
don't lose sight of our manifesto commitment for a review of business | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
rates, a food business rate review, and produce a system more fit for | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
purpose because I think the system in certain ways in recent years has | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
shown itself to be capricious and cumbersome and frankly unfair in | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
some senses. I believe it is perhaps appropriate in discussion of a Bill | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
on digital infrastructure and point out the fundamental asymmetry and | :13:03. | :13:10. | |
unfairness that bricks and mortar businesses have when paying this | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
levy in comparison with some of their digital technology-based | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
businesses that they often compete with on a day-to-day basis. We all | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
know businesses on High Street have this problem. It is important for | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
the House to recognise there are many international taxation treaties | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
which inhibit the UK from taking unilateral action on the taxation of | :13:32. | :13:33. | |
global technology businesses because their nature is global rather than | :13:34. | :13:40. | |
domestic and everybody can appreciate the difficulties but I | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
would urge the Government to look to find more international agreement so | :13:45. | :13:47. | |
we can address the balance of business rate tax paid by physical | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
bricks and mortar businesses compared with their digital cousins. | :13:51. | :14:01. | |
I think it is incumbent on me, in line with staying true to the detail | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
and narrow nature of this Bill, to talk about five G mobile broadband, | :14:06. | :14:15. | |
following on from my honourable friend, this may seem a dull topic | :14:16. | :14:23. | |
but I can assure you, it is not. The reason it can be dull is because 5G, | :14:24. | :14:33. | |
like forgery or 3G, is something we take for granted. We don't think | :14:34. | :14:44. | |
about the work that goes into it. -- like 4G. Good to have released a | :14:45. | :14:53. | |
report that infrastructure for 5G will be just as pivotal over the | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
next ten years and will boost British productivity, something all | :14:58. | :14:59. | |
members of this House should wish to see. And the benefits are four areas | :15:00. | :15:09. | |
like telecare health apps, smarter cities, seamless public services, | :15:10. | :15:17. | |
user many benefits that 5G can bring and I urge members to support this | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
Bill because it provides some of the digital plumbing to enable us to | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
bring tangible benefits to constituents. I should also mention, | :15:26. | :15:39. | |
the point raised earlier, on 3G technology and 4G. There are some | :15:40. | :15:49. | |
areas still not at this level. I am bothered about time that I would | :15:50. | :15:56. | |
like to discuss this around broadband infrastructure rather than | :15:57. | :15:59. | |
4G etc, which is mobile phones. If the debate was on mobile | :16:00. | :16:02. | |
telecommunications that would be brilliant but we're not. The member | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
from North East Hampshire should know better than to lead you on to | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
discuss something not specifically related to... Forgive me, my first | :16:13. | :16:19. | |
point of order, I'm sure you'll indulge me as a relatively new | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
Member of Parliament, within the first clause, there is reference to | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
mobile phone telecommunication... I can help you because I am bothered | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
about the length of time and the number of speakers, so if we can | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
concentrate on the bulk of what it is about, it will be easier to get | :16:38. | :16:40. | |
everyone to speak. The last thing I would hate to do is not allow | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
someone to speak, seeing as you have been sat here all day, so I'd think | :16:45. | :16:48. | |
it is better to help the House move along to the area we need to | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
discuss, to talk about 3G over 4G is not relevant to today's debate, I | :16:55. | :16:57. | |
will make the Woodlands, you will listen and we can discuss it later | :16:58. | :17:06. | |
if you wish. Thank you. In closing, Mr Deputy Speaker, I believe this | :17:07. | :17:11. | |
Bill is a significant step forward, it helps our country to lead the | :17:12. | :17:14. | |
world in the new Industrial Revolution based on digital | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
technology and secondly, to show that this Government, indeed any | :17:19. | :17:21. | |
Government using its powers effectively, to make it truly | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
positive impact on people's lives when acting in the right way. To | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
enable superfast proper to reach more people more quickly. It is a | :17:29. | :17:39. | |
great pleasure to follow the distinguished speakers in this | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
debate who have made excellent points, particularly the member for | :17:44. | :17:46. | |
Hitchin Harpenden who so eloquently spoke of many issues we | :17:47. | :17:53. | |
face in our constituencies. I have some points to make about May I have | :17:54. | :17:59. | |
a little trip down memory lane to start? I recently purchased an | :18:00. | :18:07. | |
iPhone and it reminded me of my first iPhone which had a thing | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
called Edge, it did not have 3G. Those days are long behind us but | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
with this device, I can of course carry out a great number of tasks I | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
could not have done in the past. Today is my baby son, Henry's first | :18:25. | :18:30. | |
birthday. I apologise to him in advance if he ever watches this | :18:31. | :18:38. | |
Speech, but all is not lost, because due to the wonderful invention of | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
mobile phones on the internet, I can take part in the happy day and for | :18:45. | :18:52. | |
example, I can see him on Skype, I can speak to him, he wonders why his | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
father's voices coming out of a small box that my wife is holding in | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
front of him. I can see photographs. I can see videos of him opening | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
presents. These are present but of course were ordered by a well-known | :19:08. | :19:12. | |
very large internet company, I am sure, his everyday necessities are | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
ordered through the internet, there is no longer a requirement to go to | :19:19. | :19:26. | |
the shop and there is a possibility, I understand, to link up the House, | :19:27. | :19:31. | |
so I could turn up and down the lights in his room if I wished. I | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
could check on his welfare through a webcam that I could feel my mobile | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
phone. I think what is perhaps the most extraordinary and perhaps | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
disturbing, is there is a teddy bear in his room which is a company | :19:47. | :19:55. | |
called Cloud Pets, and I can record a message so that when he plays with | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
the Teddy, he can hear my voice. This is extraordinary. Lovely, of | :20:02. | :20:10. | |
course, on his first birthday, but the internet of course is not just | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
something to amuse and perhaps confuse, and perhaps even slightly | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
frightening, it is of course something of everyday importance for | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
us all. So many members have quite rightly referred to already, the | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
internet needs to be seen these days, and ceremony of the people of | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
Whitney and West Oxfordshire, as an essential utility. We all know and | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
expect that we're able to get about my roads, trains, that we're | :20:38. | :20:44. | |
connected to water, electricity and in some cases, gas. Those are things | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
we expect now and of course, the internet, not so many years ago, was | :20:50. | :20:52. | |
once seen as something that was a bit of a luxury. You might go online | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
and look at websites but it wasn't something you needed to have to do | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
but now it is very much the case because in many cases, services take | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
place online, so it is increasingly hard to carry this out over the | :21:09. | :21:15. | |
telephone and you increasingly encouraged by, for example, | :21:16. | :21:18. | |
utilities companies, rather than ringing and to speak to a person, to | :21:19. | :21:26. | |
go online and change your car off, for example, so it is absolutely | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
critical that everybody has access to these services immediately. -- | :21:32. | :21:47. | |
change your car -- tariff. We have discussed broadband, superfast, and | :21:48. | :21:55. | |
I appreciate the House is aware that it's worth mentioning, it is | :21:56. | :22:01. | |
fibre-optic to Cabinet but from Cabinet to House is only copper and | :22:02. | :22:04. | |
that is an old system and it simply doesn't carry the data required | :22:05. | :22:10. | |
these days due to attenuation, the breakdown over the course of | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
difference and the physical effect of the current going through the | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
copper, the signal slows down so that by the time, even if you have | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
fibre-optic to the Cabinet, by the time you get to the House, you're | :22:24. | :22:26. | |
not receiving anything like superfast coverage. That is why, | :22:27. | :22:32. | |
although I am glad, and as the honourable member mentioned, that's | :22:33. | :22:41. | |
why there is still a job to do, as I think we would all accept and | :22:42. | :22:44. | |
superfast broadband is being rolled out across the entirety of the | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
country but there are 5-10% of people who don't have that, never | :22:50. | :22:52. | |
mind anything else and what we increasingly need his five to the | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
property, which enables you to have full speed broadband all the way. In | :22:57. | :23:04. | |
my own profession, I see why Mrs and I know other honourable members will | :23:05. | :23:12. | |
feel the same. As a barrister, papers are sent through the last | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
minute and they can be very large and Clerks would wish to e-mail them | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
to save us coming to Chambers to pick up papers before we go home and | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
if I had been in court in London and want to go to Chambers in Oxford | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
before I went home, I would wish to avoid that step. And that has been | :23:31. | :23:39. | |
the case, where I have had to go home to look at the e-mails to see | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
if it had been sent to me because there just wasn't broadband speed | :23:44. | :23:45. | |
enough to download the papers, so I had to get into the car, driving to | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
Chambers, pick up the political bundles and right back. All that | :23:50. | :23:58. | |
time I was wasting, wasting money, downgrading my productivity, adding | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
to the traffic on the roads, the pollution on the roads, all of which | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
was unnecessary and it is for those reasons, so when people write to me, | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
as they do frequently, who say it is impossible to carry out their | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
business, I entirely understand the point they make because I have | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
suffered from the same frustration myself. West Oxfordshire is full of | :24:18. | :24:24. | |
businesses who operate from home and I have been written to, I hope the | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
House will forgive me if just for a moment, I looked to my e-mails | :24:30. | :24:33. | |
before this debate and looked at how many villages had written to me and | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
over the brief time I have been a Member of Parliament I have been | :24:38. | :24:46. | |
contacted by constituents from various locations. 18 altogether. | :24:47. | :25:01. | |
I was written to by a gentleman and I quote him because he makes the | :25:02. | :25:12. | |
point very succinctly. He makes the point that they are lucky to get a | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
speed of 1.5 megabits per second and he points out that the indications | :25:18. | :25:23. | |
are that businesses working from high simply cannot, secondly, that | :25:24. | :25:29. | |
the traffic flow as I have alluded to people having collect items in | :25:30. | :25:36. | |
person or having to go to a workplace, but also third leave the | :25:37. | :25:46. | |
matter of education, that in many cases children are required to do | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
their homework online and cannot. My correspondent has missed out one of | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
the real drawbacks of the absence of a proper broadband connection and | :25:57. | :26:07. | |
that is in the ROMs of elderly care. We often go away to go and work | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
leaving in many case of elderly relatives in places without | :26:14. | :26:16. | |
immediate access to family. It is crucial that people are able to be | :26:17. | :26:22. | |
in contact with loved ones quickly and easily, and secondly, that they | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
are able to access the services as they need them the year to get | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
online to get medical advice or to book transport if that is necessary. | :26:32. | :26:38. | |
We are a long way away really from the days where I remember my father | :26:39. | :26:44. | |
going abroad on business trips and if he telephoned during the week, he | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
would wait while the signal parts of the satellite, went round the world. | :26:49. | :26:57. | |
When I was working in New Zealand, I was able to have a video conference | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
with my loved ones very quickly those powers exist only if you are | :27:02. | :27:08. | |
in an adequate Internet signal. For businesses particularly with regards | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
to the elderly, family and with regards to care as well. I have | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
referred to rural areas where I am conscious and I know many members | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
represent areas where that is the chief concern, but it is much the | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
same in cities as well. We are here in Westminster and in Westminster | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
and Lambeth, the speeds that are experienced by householders here in | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
many cases are not much better than those that we in representing rural | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
areas deal with there. Let us not think this is only something that | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
affects those of us who have loads of small villages in their area. The | :27:49. | :27:54. | |
same is true of cities as well. In my biggest town, Whitney, I was | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
written to by a lady and she makes the same point that has been | :27:59. | :28:05. | |
referred to by friends for Cannock Chase. With regards to developers. | :28:06. | :28:11. | |
Developments are built and certainly where my correspondent wrote to me, | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
she was frustrated to see that the Cabinet was very close but the | :28:16. | :28:18. | |
developers are not required to connect up the rest of the | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
properties and that clearly is something that causes immense | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
frustration understandably to that constituent and many others. The | :28:28. | :28:36. | |
digital economy is one, we agree 7%, three times faster than other areas | :28:37. | :28:41. | |
of the economy so it is one of enormous significance to the economy | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
and particularly in areas such as mine where there are so may people | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
who work from home, who are self-employed and who run small | :28:51. | :28:58. | |
businesses. That clearly is something very close to my heart. We | :28:59. | :29:04. | |
have talked about bank closures and there have been in many great bank | :29:05. | :29:12. | |
closures and that is because people are told that people do their | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
services online and that is all well and good provided they have the | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
ability to do so. Whilst you might have the strong signal in Kosten, | :29:21. | :29:26. | |
you would not necessarily in the surrounding villages outside. It | :29:27. | :29:32. | |
necessary to have that to pay your council tax, to go Internet | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
shopping. It is one of the wonders of the Internet age and when I was | :29:37. | :29:43. | |
younger, you might want to have a particular book, and you would have | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
to order from the local book shop and it would take months to arrive, | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
whereas now some of the romance of that is lost because you can have | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
almost anything and then it appears weird in a matter of days. But this | :29:56. | :30:02. | |
is a wonder of the Internet age as it is with music and for those of us | :30:03. | :30:10. | |
who are music lovers, once there was a particular song and album and you | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
might be able to track it down somewhere, now with many well-known | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
streaming services, one can listen to whatever you like immediately | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
again provided that you have a good enough Internet service to do it. It | :30:24. | :30:29. | |
is absolutely crucial that we have the ability to have decent | :30:30. | :30:36. | |
high-speed and I mean proper high-speed ultrafast broadband | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
capabilities for necessities and for business. The honourable member for | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
North Dorset has given an inkling to the sorts of things that happened | :30:47. | :30:49. | |
that are required in rural economies. In years gone by, much of | :30:50. | :30:57. | |
the economy was provided indirectly or directly by something by the | :30:58. | :31:03. | |
Cotswold lion. It is blankets and gloves that in not be too distant | :31:04. | :31:11. | |
past was the mainstay of Whitney's economy. Now we are looking to | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
unlock tourism, we are looking to provide bed-and-breakfast | :31:18. | :31:20. | |
accommodation. We have a great many houses that are let for sure lets. | :31:21. | :31:27. | |
It is essential that people are able to get those online. On Saturday I | :31:28. | :31:34. | |
went to the Whitney Carnival and many of these events and fates which | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
are all over West Oxford, there are small stores which are where people | :31:40. | :31:43. | |
sell things from their business and it may be artists, it may be food | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
products and again all of these are made possible and made successful by | :31:48. | :31:55. | |
access to good, fast broadband and without that, it simply will not | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
take place. The businesses will not work and so I cannot stress and | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
opener Joe for saying it and over again, broadband is not a luxury. It | :32:04. | :32:11. | |
is absolutely essential in this day and age and when people from West it | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
point out they have a slow connection and they ought to have a | :32:16. | :32:21. | |
fast one, I agree with them, it is essential for them for their | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
personal life and businesses. As we look at home businesses, premises, | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
tourism, across the entire industry, broadband is necessary. The | :32:32. | :32:38. | |
Government has taken great steps and I thank the Government from before | :32:39. | :32:40. | |
the times that I came into Parliament and its continuing | :32:41. | :32:47. | |
efforts for rolling out fast broadband, but it is necessary for | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
us to complete the job. I applaud the fact there is a legal rights | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
being introduced to superfast broadband. We have about 90% | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
coverage in Whitney at the moment but clearly we need to work towards | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
100% as possible, and I applaud and welcome the measures the Government | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
is introducing at this stage. The universal service obligation and the | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
400 million going into the digital infrastructure investment fund. I | :33:15. | :33:22. | |
particularly encourage their private investment that we have. I grateful | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
to BT for having being proactive in my constituency but with sound | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
money, good local governance the role of strong, investing locally, | :33:34. | :33:42. | |
we can provide this full solution and using local companies who are | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
flexible and agile and cost-effective for money and I would | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
encourage that. I will touch on the two cruises in the build that I | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
considered the most relevant. The first is business rates relief for | :33:56. | :34:01. | |
this bill quite rightly puts broadband alongside the belief that | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
already exists for small businesses, charitable beliefs and rural | :34:06. | :34:12. | |
businesses. And close six promises the effect of this will be more or | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
less immediate and I applaud that at this stage. Five G of course is | :34:17. | :34:24. | |
something as over the course of time... Broadband and mobile | :34:25. | :34:33. | |
telephony is combining over the course of the years and that is | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
something I wholly applaud. Fixing not spots is something we must do | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
and I applaud the Government for everything it has done. Just to say | :34:44. | :34:52. | |
he may want to take a few pages out at his now ten minutes each. I am | :34:53. | :34:59. | |
grateful for your ruling earlier on this evening because it has given me | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
the opportunity to speak for ten minutes rather than nine or I can | :35:05. | :35:12. | |
make it eight to give someone else more time? I am grateful indeed to | :35:13. | :35:23. | |
you for that. The member for Whitney, I felt great sympathy for | :35:24. | :35:32. | |
him and many would have been in a similar situation when trying to | :35:33. | :35:35. | |
communicate with members of our family whether it be birthdays or | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
anniversaries, but also because he and I and the honourable member for | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
Hexham were all members of the same chambers and therefore in the same | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
situation when trying to download papers on e-mail to make sure that | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
the papers arrived in court on time. But I do stand to me welcome this | :35:56. | :36:01. | |
bill and the importance of broadband as we have heard from so many other | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
members this evening cannot be overstated. It is as important as | :36:07. | :36:12. | |
road and rail, it is a vital part of our infrastructure and although I am | :36:13. | :36:15. | |
pleased with the progress the Government is making I will dwell on | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
one or two brief points to say where improvements still need to be made. | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
But I do start with a word of congratulations because it is right | :36:26. | :36:28. | |
to acknowledge where the Government is moving in the right direction and | :36:29. | :36:34. | |
to stand here and say 93% coverage for superfast at present is an | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
achievement indeed. I also applaud the ambition to have 95% coverage by | :36:40. | :36:47. | |
the end of 2017. I was pleased to hear that the Government is on | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
target. But it is frustrating and this is a point that has been | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
repeated this evening, it is frustrating for those of the 5% who | :36:58. | :37:02. | |
was still left without and many of us who are spoken will represent | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
constituents who are in exactly that position. I know a number of | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
constituents will not be consoled by the fact that 95% of the rest of the | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
population have access to superfast broadband whilst they do not. I | :37:17. | :37:22. | |
needn't dwell on specific speeds in relation to the Internet suffice it | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
to say that the 1000 Mb per second that is lauded as a part of this | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
bill is warmly welcomed but it is a figure that would be staggering to | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
many of my constituents who are struggling on 0.5 - 1 megabit per | :37:36. | :37:42. | |
second and cannot imagine those speeds so vast as 1000 Mb per | :37:43. | :37:48. | |
second. But if I may just well on two or three very brief examples | :37:49. | :37:55. | |
from my constituency. And those are examples that constituents have | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
raised with me and I must declare an interest that I'm a self in the | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
village of Lucian affected by many of these same issues. The first is a | :38:04. | :38:09. | |
constituent who wrote to me with great concern about the broadband | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
speeds and these are speeds of between 0.5 and 1 megabit per | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
second. It has been mentioned that we use our Internet for more and | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
more things these days, including education and I think my honourable | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
friend for Faversham mentioned researching points of education but | :38:28. | :38:31. | |
it goes further. Many of our children are asked to do homework | :38:32. | :38:34. | |
based on the Internet employee based on the Internet, in fact they have | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
to access the Internet to download homework they are doing on that | :38:40. | :38:42. | |
particular evening. One constituent wrote to me saying they have to | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
actually a Russian the amount of homework that their family can do | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
and take it intends to get onto the computer and carry out their | :38:54. | :38:59. | |
homework because the speeds of 0.5 - 1 megabit per second do not allow | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
for two children to do their homework at one and the same time. | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
This additional point was made that when updating software Microsoft | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
these days you don't get a wonderful DVD that you put in your computer, | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
you have to download it and therefore if the speeds are not fast | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
enough, you simply cannot download and update the software. The second | :39:23. | :39:28. | |
example that I have been given by a constituent involves several bull | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
business. This constituent lives about 100 metres from a different | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
network that would be so much faster where the business could function | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
properly, but as it is, struggling on less than 1 megabit per second he | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
has to go to his place of work in order to download his work, the | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
speeds simply will not allow the Atlantis was a point made. BT have | :39:53. | :39:59. | |
not been fixable enough. An example was merchant where Beatty were | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
flexible, however in this case they have not been flexible enough and | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
will not allow my constituent to change despite the distance of | :40:10. | :40:11. | |
nearly 50 metres or so. I am conscious of the time but I | :40:12. | :40:21. | |
want to make one or two final points, in relation to postcodes. I | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
am conscious the Minister will soon jump up to the dispatch box but | :40:28. | :40:33. | |
quite often date is arranged by postcode and percentages are | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
cultivated on the basis of postcodes but some roads in fact have the same | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
postcode but different exchanges and I think of one particular example in | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
Dorset where it is claimed they have the potential to access superfast | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
broadband on the basis of a postcode alone and the fact is that is | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
absolutely not the case because it has one postcode but two separate | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
exchanges. I warmly welcome the measures set out in this Bill but it | :41:01. | :41:08. | |
will not solve all the problems overnight and when my constituents | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
look at the full fibre speeds to the door rather than the Cabinet, they | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
applauded but they wanted soon. Thank you for indulging me, Mr | :41:17. | :41:22. | |
Deputy Speaker and I sit down in advance of those ten minutes. Doctor | :41:23. | :41:34. | |
Caroline Johnson. Thank you. To speak tonight on this Bill is a | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
pleasure because as I campaign to a by-election in December, broadband | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
was one of the major issues and trying to deliver broadband | :41:44. | :41:45. | |
throughout my constituency is part of the 5-point plan many of you | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
helped me campaign on in those winter months. I agree with my | :41:51. | :41:56. | |
colleague, the member for Whitney, when he says broadband is essential. | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
This is a relatively new thing, when a look back to my own childhood and | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
I am not that old, I remember there are simply being one BBC computer of | :42:07. | :42:12. | |
the school that we went to a class at a time to go into use. Only when | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
I got to university to burst out of the really use of the internet and | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
the ability to send e-mails but at that stage, it was e-mails to others | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
within the university. In my case, mostly to a man who is now my | :42:27. | :42:34. | |
husband, actually. But now we cannot see how we could possibly live | :42:35. | :42:38. | |
without it, whether we are young or old, as my colleague has said, | :42:39. | :42:41. | |
whether it is an opportunity to do homework and I know my constituents | :42:42. | :42:45. | |
and indeed my own children have come home with things like maths | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
applications that they're supposed to do online that they simply cannot | :42:52. | :42:54. | |
because with speeds of less than two megabytes of broadband, it is just | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
not possible to do this work and this is affecting opportunities for | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
education for children in our most rural constituencies. Young people | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
in general are having difficulties, when you turn on the television or | :43:09. | :43:14. | |
open sky broadband, you get suggestions to watch downloads, TV | :43:15. | :43:24. | |
on demand or downloading films but you cannot because actually that's | :43:25. | :43:27. | |
not available to those people living in rural constituencies that I | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
represent, where download speed of less than two megabytes are very | :43:32. | :43:38. | |
common. It is perhaps the business people that the lack of broadband | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
represents the greatest problem. For small businesses, particularly in | :43:44. | :43:46. | |
rural areas, farmers, who have to complete single farm payment online, | :43:47. | :43:51. | |
reloading and freeloading and reloading the page becomes very | :43:52. | :43:58. | |
wearisome. We are now being asked to complete tax online and will be | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
asked to come pleated four times a year online and VAT returns and all | :44:03. | :44:07. | |
this becomes more wearisome as we have to do it online and physically | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
cannot. Job applications, you want to advertise for a new employee? You | :44:12. | :44:17. | |
do it online. You want to apply, you do it online. All of the things | :44:18. | :44:20. | |
cannot be achieved because we do not have access to what is now in effect | :44:21. | :44:27. | |
a utility. For families who want to do their shopping, it's not possible | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
in many parts of my constituency. People tell me they live in the most | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
rural area and cannot order shopping. But for the elderly, it is | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
perhaps more of a concern. Jo Cox started a foundation for loneliness, | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
looking at people in our community, the elderly, you're cut off from | :44:47. | :44:49. | |
society and perhaps that more great in the rural communities and in the | :44:50. | :44:57. | |
cities. The internet offers people who live in rural communities the | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
opportunity to connect to families through Skype and other methods of | :45:03. | :45:08. | |
communication and it also offers opportunities for telemedicine, as | :45:09. | :45:15. | |
we look at opportunities for social care and the elderly, telemedicine | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
to monitor the condition and well-being of an elderly person, is | :45:21. | :45:25. | |
something that allows us to improve our social care offering to | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
communities everywhere but if we do not have the internet resource to | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
support that, we cannot do that. I do welcome the Government's 93% | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
coverage for superfast broadband and I think we have seen great strides | :45:42. | :45:46. | |
in increasing those people with access to this wonder but for those | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
who do not have access to it, it has become increasingly frustrating. | :45:53. | :46:01. | |
Those people living in one area, for example, said they can't see the | :46:02. | :46:04. | |
Cabinet and we do not have access to it because we're coming off a | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
different exchange and by the time the signal reaches us from that | :46:10. | :46:14. | |
Cabinet, it is now so slow as to be virtually useless. These people are | :46:15. | :46:17. | |
being supported through the community five Premiership and I | :46:18. | :46:26. | |
hope -- community vibe partnership. One constituents said they were full | :46:27. | :46:31. | |
of excitement at the sight of the superfast broadband sign of growing | :46:32. | :46:35. | |
up in the constituency, the little box in the corner but it was right | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
outside their House and they are not connected to it, they're connected | :46:40. | :46:45. | |
to one down the road. And finally, can I declare an interest that I | :46:46. | :46:48. | |
happen to live close to this village, they were told they would | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
get broadband by September that the railway line, which isn't new, they | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
have been told that because of the railway line, even though they were | :46:58. | :47:00. | |
promised for this September, it will now not certainly happen, it seems | :47:01. | :47:07. | |
to have been indefinitely postponed. It beggars belief that in this day | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
and age something as simple as a branch line should prevent the | :47:12. | :47:18. | |
upgrade of a broadband network. Overall, I think this Bill, which | :47:19. | :47:25. | |
will reduce or abolish temporarily the business rates on fibre | :47:26. | :47:29. | |
broadband for five years, will encourage placement of new fibre | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
lines and I very much hope it will encourage the placement of new fibre | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
lines into rural components of my constituency and I hope that in | :47:39. | :47:45. | |
focusing this money, this benefit, the minister is minded to ensure it | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
is those people in rural communities currently suffering without access | :47:51. | :47:53. | |
to this vital utility that are prioritised over increasing speeds | :47:54. | :48:00. | |
from very fast to even faster in the town centres and cities of this | :48:01. | :48:09. | |
country. Thank you. It is a pleasure to be the last Speaker to be called | :48:10. | :48:16. | |
during this debate, which has been interesting, I think at times the | :48:17. | :48:19. | |
connection between the clauses of this Bill and the content of | :48:20. | :48:25. | |
speeches has been perhaps well and truly lost. Indeed, there was a | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
suggestion that constituents of hours will have been able to watch | :48:31. | :48:33. | |
this debate online, in which case I find myself at certain parts having | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
sympathy with those 93% of the public that do indeed have access to | :48:39. | :48:44. | |
do so. The member for North East Hampton share made the point -- the | :48:45. | :48:58. | |
member for North East Hampshire. He made the point out a battery not | :48:59. | :49:05. | |
lasting long but this has been an interesting debate and one which I | :49:06. | :49:08. | |
am delighted to take the last few minutes to further. Mr Deputy | :49:09. | :49:15. | |
Speaker, despite great work by my county of East Sussex, and indeed | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
the Government, there are too many of my constituents who do not have a | :49:20. | :49:25. | |
connection to fast broadband. My constituency is one where the | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
constituents have an aged profile and from our perspective it is | :49:31. | :49:33. | |
essential to balance our economy to get more people to come and live and | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
work in East Sussex, which is of course not that far from London but | :49:38. | :49:43. | |
from a commuting perspective, for many, particularly with the travails | :49:44. | :49:46. | |
we have with Southern Rail, it is too far to attract workers to come | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
to our constituency. We are also fortunate to have 75% of the | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
geography as an area of outstanding natural beauty, so therefore, it's a | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
natural area for people to want to come and set up their own businesses | :50:00. | :50:03. | |
but they will not do so unless they have the conductivity of superfast | :50:04. | :50:07. | |
broadband. Would my honourable friend give way on that point? He | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
describes the constituency different from my errand, the city of | :50:14. | :50:16. | |
Gloucester, but with similar issues because we struggle with black | :50:17. | :50:23. | |
spots, where most of the city is covered but certain blackspots where | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
people cannot access broadband to enable them to work from home, which | :50:28. | :50:33. | |
is similar to the problem might honourable friend describes. I thank | :50:34. | :50:38. | |
my honourable friend for his point and he's absolutely right, it is not | :50:39. | :50:44. | |
just rural parts that parts which will not continue to regenerate | :50:45. | :50:51. | |
without this problem being fixed. I welcome this Bill as a result of 5G | :50:52. | :50:59. | |
installations and it should Act as a further incentive that they need in | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
my constituency to provide a fix. I also welcome the previous bills | :51:04. | :51:09. | |
introduction of the new universal service obligation, which again | :51:10. | :51:12. | |
should give the last 7% faster broadband. As has been mentioned, | :51:13. | :51:19. | |
this type of conductivity, this infrastructure in the modern age is | :51:20. | :51:23. | |
akin to the delivery of a new road or rail way to our constituents and | :51:24. | :51:27. | |
it is vital for the entire economy than we do not leave these | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
constituents behind. As well as recognising investment from the | :51:32. | :51:37. | |
Government and previous funding initiatives, may I recommend | :51:38. | :51:39. | |
conservative front East Sussex County Council and Labour-run Royton | :51:40. | :51:44. | |
and Hove Borough Council for working together to help businesses. Through | :51:45. | :51:53. | |
their East Sussex Project, Mark County have allocated money for | :51:54. | :52:00. | |
areas too expensive for the market to upgrade. Every exchange in East | :52:01. | :52:03. | |
Sussex will be included in the current project will cover an area | :52:04. | :52:11. | |
of 660 square miles and over 66,500 premises. This will result in over | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
400 new telecoms cabinets and other structures and will lay over 1000 | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
kilometres of fibre, the same distance as would be between | :52:21. | :52:25. | |
Brighton and Berlin. The first East Sussex contract is receiving | :52:26. | :52:28. | |
excellent results in bringing better and more reliable fibre broadband to | :52:29. | :52:33. | |
many areas that would not otherwise benefit from an upgraded service. | :52:34. | :52:38. | |
However, there remain properties and hard to reach, for example where it | :52:39. | :52:42. | |
is too far from the upgraded cabinet to benefit from any speed uplift and | :52:43. | :52:47. | |
hard to reach generally means too expensive for the public purse to | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
fund. East Sussex has therefore assigned a secondary contract with | :52:53. | :52:56. | |
BT for further investment so that an additional 5000 homes and businesses | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
in East Sussex will be able to access high-speed fibre broadband. | :53:01. | :53:06. | |
There has been much talk of political parties coming together a | :53:07. | :53:09. | |
a common interest today. Perhaps this is a local illustration of the | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
power of positive collaboration and working together. I give way again. | :53:14. | :53:21. | |
I am grateful. Can he shared with us whether his council and that in | :53:22. | :53:27. | |
Brighton has introduced in its planning requirements and absolute | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
requirement on developers to provide superfast broadband as part of their | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
planning application? This is an area where our councils and others | :53:36. | :53:46. | |
could do more. Thank you. In answer to the comment, I do not believe | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
they have but this touches on another issue because whilst I am | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
referring to East Sussex County Council and Brighton and Hove | :53:55. | :53:56. | |
Borough Council, it is outside of Brighton but with the Sussex, the | :53:57. | :54:01. | |
district councils which actually have the planning powers he | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
referenced, so I am afraid to say that I doubt that they do this is | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
perhaps a good example of where districts could work together with | :54:11. | :54:17. | |
county cousins. Whilst all of this scene is great news for East Sussex, | :54:18. | :54:22. | |
I am afraid we are from a low base in terms of where we operate from. A | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
recent report by the consumer organisation which found that the | :54:27. | :54:34. | |
geography of the District Council in my constituency is in the bottom ten | :54:35. | :54:38. | |
of all district and boroughs in the entire British Isles for average | :54:39. | :54:43. | |
broadband speeds, so rather joins the Highlands, Shetland and Orkney | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
Islands in the bottom ten performing areas. In contrast, those fortunate | :54:48. | :54:53. | |
residents from Tamworth, which topped the list for speeds, with an | :54:54. | :54:58. | |
average of 30 megabits per second, will be more fortunate than my | :54:59. | :55:01. | |
constituents, with the average speed is less than 10 megabits per second | :55:02. | :55:08. | |
for Rother. I very much welcome the commitment | :55:09. | :55:21. | |
by the Minister that by 2020 100% of my constituents will receive 10 | :55:22. | :55:24. | |
megabits by second. However it would appear that the increased | :55:25. | :55:31. | |
performance for the District Council will be vital if the Government is | :55:32. | :55:36. | |
going to meet its 100% target, so can I put in a blatant invitation to | :55:37. | :55:42. | |
the Minister to meet with me and discuss what in this bill could be | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
on offer to my constituents in order for me to then assist the Government | :55:48. | :55:54. | |
in meeting their 100% target. In conclusion, I welcome this bill as | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
part of a package of proactive measures from this Government to | :55:59. | :56:01. | |
deliver faster broadband. I should also mention that I additionally | :56:02. | :56:08. | |
welcome further reforms to the business rate mechanism and whilst I | :56:09. | :56:15. | |
do not wish to wander off too far, there have been examples where | :56:16. | :56:18. | |
business rates can impact businesses where services are being offered. We | :56:19. | :56:23. | |
should not forget that members are subject to business rates as well, a | :56:24. | :56:28. | |
matter I found out to my personal cost having excluded my staff | :56:29. | :56:37. | |
budgets. -- exceeded. I welcome the point that business rates can be | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
linked towards turnover rather than to premises and that will help my | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
constituency. As a further meander can I also make... There is no | :56:47. | :56:54. | |
prohibition on him deleting a little further if he is minded to do so. He | :56:55. | :57:01. | |
has clearly got an expected audience. I think at least part of | :57:02. | :57:06. | |
that sentence was perhaps a little helpful to me and perhaps not | :57:07. | :57:10. | |
accurate. But the point I wanted to touch on was with regard to | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
corporation tax and whilst I think I would be making a very collaborative | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
speech so far that members of the opposition may agree, it is this | :57:20. | :57:22. | |
aspect that I wish to take issue with because corporation tax as has | :57:23. | :57:28. | |
been pointed out has reduced and the overall yield, the amount of money | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
that can be put into the public services has increased, so for | :57:34. | :57:37. | |
whatever reason the opposition would want to increase corporation taxes | :57:38. | :57:41. | |
and reduced the amount of money on public services to me is illogical | :57:42. | :57:49. | |
and I give way. Has he not once more powerfully shown the benefits of the | :57:50. | :57:52. | |
Laffer curve where lower rates lead to more tax revenue? I thank the | :57:53. | :57:59. | |
honourable member for reminding me for something I have not heard since | :58:00. | :58:05. | |
my days doing A-levels, studying economics. He is absolutely right | :58:06. | :58:09. | |
and this brings me to another point with respect to the opposition. As | :58:10. | :58:16. | |
well as supporting this bill, it is important to support the aims which | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
are to increase business, to increase turnover, the amounts of | :58:21. | :58:23. | |
money we can put into public services. On a recent visit I've | :58:24. | :58:27. | |
made to the new Bexhill business park where the Government is | :58:28. | :58:30. | |
creating the funds for a new road and in return, there is hope that | :58:31. | :58:36. | |
investment is generated for new businesses setting up. There are | :58:37. | :58:39. | |
many businesses from across Europe who are looking to set up and place | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
their business headquarters on that business Park and at times when | :58:45. | :58:50. | |
perhaps business confidence is a little uncertain due to our own | :58:51. | :58:55. | |
position with regard to the EU, it is essential to make sure we have | :58:56. | :58:59. | |
the lowest possible corporation tax base to ensure those businesses have | :59:00. | :59:04. | |
every incentive to invest in this country not just for the short-term | :59:05. | :59:08. | |
but the long-term and I'm sure those businesses will be delighted that | :59:09. | :59:11. | |
this Government has been returned to deliver just that. In conclusion to | :59:12. | :59:19. | |
my conclusion, I very much welcome the steps that have been taken by | :59:20. | :59:25. | |
this Government to incentivise further broadband roll-out. I hope | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
that it will help my constituents who I repeat again in the lowest ten | :59:31. | :59:34. | |
districts in case the SNP had not heard the first time round and I | :59:35. | :59:38. | |
very much look forward to supporting this bill as it spends its many days | :59:39. | :59:47. | |
through committee stage. Thank you. We on this side of the House to | :59:48. | :59:52. | |
welcome this measure. It is vital that our homes and businesses have | :59:53. | :59:57. | |
access to broadband and that broadband is faster, safer and more | :59:58. | :00:02. | |
reliable than before. That is why we will be scrutinising this bill | :00:03. | :00:05. | |
carefully in committee. As the Chancellor has put it this country | :00:06. | :00:10. | |
was late to the forgery party, so let's do all we can to ensure the UK | :00:11. | :00:17. | |
is at the forefront of five G communications and has full fibre | :00:18. | :00:20. | |
broadband to support it. There was some doubt that this bill would | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
appear. The policy was originally announced in the Chancellor's Autumn | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
Statement in 2016 and was due to be implemented as the local got the | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
Finance bill but this was scuppered by the general election. It was not | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
mentioned in the Queen's speech and there were some industry nervousness | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
that it had been abandoned, but here we are, early July, with the | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
stand-alone bill and I am glad we are. Now as we have heard the bill | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
has a simple premise, at least I thought it was simple before I | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
attended the start of this debate five hours ago. It will encourage | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
firms to install new optical fibre by providing 100th and business rate | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
relief and will do so for a period of five years minimum backdated to | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
last April and we understand it will cost the Exchequer around 65 million | :01:10. | :01:16. | |
by 20 22. Sure to be welcome news to the UK's broadband companies and | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
many of whom wrote to the Chancellor to complain that the current | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
business rate regime is not fit for purpose and it discourages inward | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
investment and upgrades. This reform meets some of those concerns. The | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
fact is those business leaders were really talking about the whole | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
business rates regime. This bill deals with just one aspect where we | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
actually need to be talking about the whole system and many members | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
from across the House have agreed with that. There are many changes to | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
the system that we could help to support businesses and we outline | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
some of those in our manifesto, including switching from RPI to CPI | :01:55. | :02:01. | |
indexation, exempting new investment in plant and machinery and insurance | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
business have access to a proper appeals process. I appreciate this | :02:05. | :02:11. | |
is a stand-alone bill that deals with digital infrastructure, but I | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
do feel it is no more than a sticking plaster for our moribund | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
business rate system when we need a total rethink. It is a framework | :02:19. | :02:26. | |
bill, it is short on detail. For example, conditions of eligibility | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
will be outlined in future regulations and this is why we need | :02:31. | :02:33. | |
to scrutinise the bill, but I wonder which firms will benefit? The relief | :02:34. | :02:41. | |
is expected to boost the big data providers, for example, Virgin | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
Media, project lightning and also BT Openreach but it is not clear | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
whether the smaller firms will benefit at least originally and I | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
would like to hear from the minister about how he expects the reform to | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
impact on the smaller providers. It would be a great shame if this was | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
merely a bill for big business. Would it help smaller firms if the | :03:04. | :03:10. | |
provisions could be applied retrospectively to capture work on | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
the full fibre networks that have already taken place? Like many | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
members across the House I do have the concern about how it will | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
benefit Britain's rural communities who have not done so well out of the | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
broadband revolution. There are many areas that have been dogged by poor | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
connectivity and indeed it applies to urban areas as well. My own area | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
I could not get broadband speeds for the past seven years. It was last | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
week we were connected thanks to the housing plan -- company that built | :03:42. | :03:48. | |
my house not allowing them to cable it. But many customers still do not | :03:49. | :03:56. | |
get the advertised speeds that they are paying for. If they want an | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
upgrade, they pay for the upgrade. And what they are getting is not | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
what is advertised and I really commend their witch report on the | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
broadband speeds. If we pay for our water rates and the utility company | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
media gave us a trickle out of the tap, we would be quick to complain. | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
Many members have said that broadband and speeds are the next | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
utility. Why is this not included then? Businesses have suffered by | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
not having the proper access to markets and customers that they | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
should have, the public have suffered, cutting them off from | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
Internet sites and the entertainment sources and Air Jordan are doubly | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
penalised in so much of the modern education relies on online | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
resources, but I must mention Digital exclusion which has been | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
lacking here. More and more services are going online. In fact there have | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
been closures of job centres recently as people are encouraged to | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
apply online for all their benefits, council services and yet, many | :05:05. | :05:11. | |
people do not have access to this. In fact, in my own constituency in | :05:12. | :05:18. | |
the Wigan Borough, 99% of people do have access to faster broadband, | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
only 74% of them have the skills to use it. I do hope the cuts in the | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
adult education budget particularly of penalising these people from | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
joining the digital economy that we all enjoy here. As I said at the | :05:35. | :05:41. | |
outset, we on this side support the bill. It is an important step | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
towards securing better broadband connectivity and access, but it is | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
more than just access. It can only work if it is part of a broader | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
picture which on the one hand fully incentivises businesses to invest in | :05:58. | :06:00. | |
the future, and on the other hand ensures everyone and not just a | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
select few benefit from the reforms and that is more than just this | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
bill. It does mean education, it means ensuring that everyone has the | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
skills to take advantage of this great step forward. We have had an | :06:17. | :06:27. | |
interesting and at times wide ranging debate on this important | :06:28. | :06:34. | |
bill. It was good to see such interest on the Government | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
backbenchers in relation to this important subject, but slightly | :06:40. | :06:47. | |
disappointing not to see one speech from the opposition backbenches on | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
what is a critical issue across the country. The improvement of | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
connectivity in the digital age helps individuals in their | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
workplace, in their home and can transform public services and the | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
economy. Improved connectivity will bring significant economic reports. | :07:08. | :07:14. | |
Research suggests that increased broadband speeds alone could add ?17 | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
billion to the UK output by 2024. This is something which has been | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
recognised by all members who have spoken today. I would like to thank | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
the many colleagues who have made contributions to date and the | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
passionate way in which members have spoken. It shows that we here in | :07:34. | :07:41. | |
Parliament will recognise the importance of investing in our | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
telecommunications infrastructure. This ensures that we help to close | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
the digital divide and help to get higher quality, more reliable and | :07:49. | :07:55. | |
resilient connectivity to more households and businesses. This | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
brings forward the technical changes to legislation needed to introduce | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
100% business rates relief for five years for newly installed fibre | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
infrastructure. The importance which we place in this relief is | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
recognised in the fact we have brought forward this bill so quickly | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
in the session. The Chancellor announced at the Autumn Statement | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
that we would provide relief on new fibre with effect from 1st of April | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
2000 17. It is vital we move quickly to reassure the sector that that | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
relief will follow. Investment decisions have been made upon the | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
back of the Chancellor 's commitment and it is right we move forward with | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
this bill to give us the power was to deliver the relief that has been | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
promised. The supports this bill introduces forms part of a wider ?1 | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
billion government package of measures being put in place to | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
support investment in digital infrastructure and forms an | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
important part of the Government's Digital strategy. As such this bill | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
will help to maintain the UK's current high-ranking as an Internet | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
e-commerce economy as well as providing significant coverage of | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
quick reliable broadband connections to homes across the country. I want | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
to mention some of the contributions that have been made in this debate. | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
First of all by the honourable gentleman for Denton and Redditch | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
who did welcome the bill and he also made the economic case for the bill. | :09:29. | :09:34. | |
And I feel he did acknowledge that this Government is investing in the | :09:35. | :09:43. | |
technology of the future. He did intimate that the measures in the | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
bill will favour larger providers, but just to reassure him on the | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
contrary, this bill actually helps the smaller providers and opens up | :09:54. | :10:00. | |
competition and actually puts those smaller providers on a more level | :10:01. | :10:03. | |
playing field and I think we heard several contributions where that was | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
a view that was reiterated. In terms of business rate retention, | :10:08. | :10:18. | |
we're clear we want local Government to keep more of the taxes they raise | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
locally, that was in our manifesto and something we are looking to | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
follow through on. I will give way. I am grateful to the Minister for | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
giving way. I have raised this point in point of order and through other | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
mechanisms in the last week, can he clarify that it is still the | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
Government's intention to proceed with the measures that were in the | :10:44. | :10:50. | |
local Government Finance Bill relating to local retention of | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
business rates in the same timetable that was set out with the changes to | :10:54. | :11:01. | |
the revenue support grant? As I said, this Government is absolutely | :11:02. | :11:10. | |
committed to allowing local Government to keep taxes they raise | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
locally, that was in our manifesto, but he did make an important point | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
during his contribution about local Government wanting certainty, he | :11:21. | :11:34. | |
made that point using a little bit of faux rage, I thought, because | :11:35. | :11:42. | |
local Government currently has a four year... We do need to provide | :11:43. | :11:51. | |
certainty to local Government and it is our intention to do just that. He | :11:52. | :12:00. | |
also mentioned regular evaluations, I won't give way, I want to make | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
some progress, in terms of re-evaluations, I want to tell him | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
we are committed to delivering more frequent re-evaluations. Another | :12:11. | :12:16. | |
point was made about the detail of the measures within the Bill. As the | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
honourable lady who made the point knows, this is a framework and we | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
will bring forward for other regulations to implement this Bill | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
but I can assure her that those regulations will be put forward | :12:29. | :12:31. | |
before the Committee stage of this Bill, so that honourable members can | :12:32. | :12:37. | |
scrutinise those regulations during the passage of the Bill. Moving | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
on... Mr Andrew Quinn, point of order. You know I have stood up this | :12:45. | :12:51. | |
dispatch box on a number of locations on this important issue | :12:52. | :12:58. | |
and ask you how we can get a response and statement from the | :12:59. | :13:01. | |
Secretary of State for his ministers. The last time, the | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
Secretary of State did say we could raise it in a debate. I have asked | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
the question and we still have not got answers. How do we get that | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
certainty for local Government? The answer to the honourable gentleman | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
is that if he had first does not succeed, he must try and try again, | :13:20. | :13:22. | |
I am sure this is something his mother must have taught at school. | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
What I would say is, persist, go to the table office, think of the | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
opportunities for different types of questions and as we approach the | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
summer recess, the relative urgency or emergency of what he seeks. | :13:38. | :13:44. | |
Minister? Thank you, Mr Speaker. Moving onto contributions made by | :13:45. | :13:50. | |
other members. I just want to firstly comment on comments made by | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
the member for Wantage, he showed his significant knowledge in this | :13:57. | :14:03. | |
area when he welcomed the Bill and it was good to see the significant | :14:04. | :14:12. | |
knowledge that he has, he did confirm his fault was this would | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
help and incentivise smaller providers and increase the | :14:18. | :14:24. | |
competition, a point reiterated by the member for North West Hampshire. | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
My honourable friend for Wantage did mention the impact this would have | :14:31. | :14:37. | |
on mobile infrastructure and 5G. He also mentioned looking at the | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
planning system in relation to making sure we have mobile | :14:42. | :14:48. | |
infrastructure we need and I am sure my right honourable friend will be | :14:49. | :14:51. | |
aware that in the Digital Economy Act, there have since from that set | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
of regulations, been put forward in the House last November, which will | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
speed up the planning process for telecom infrastructure. With regard | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
to the honourable gentleman for Carmarthen, he welcomed the | :15:08. | :15:08. | |
framework for England and Wales and acknowledged this Bill actually will | :15:09. | :15:14. | |
put on a framework that will allow the devolved Government to take up | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
or not is the case maybe, the measures in Bill. He was right to | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
point out also that this will provide funding for Wales through | :15:24. | :15:30. | |
Barnett consequentials. My honourable friend for North Dorset | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
also made a very important point about the potential loss of income | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
to local authorities during the implementation of this Bill and just | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
to reassure him, that where a network is on the local waiting | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
list, compensation for local Government will be provided via a | :15:52. | :15:58. | |
grant to cover that particular local authority's share of the cost of | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
providing the business rate relief. My honourable friend for North West | :16:05. | :16:07. | |
Hampshire welcomed the Bill, which fulfils a wish, as I understand it, | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
of his, that he had during the passage of the Digital economy is | :16:13. | :16:19. | |
ill and he seemed extremely pleased that one of the suggestions made was | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
giving this very business rate relief has been taken up by the | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
Government. My honourable friend for Faversham talked about the | :16:30. | :16:31. | |
importance of the Bill in the context of social conclusion and | :16:32. | :16:39. | |
tackling loneliness. Tim Visser into rural small businesses that would | :16:40. | :16:47. | |
benefit from the delivery of five broadband to those communities. My | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
honourable friend for Aldridge-Brownhills recognise that | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
the five-year rate relief period would provide a significant | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
incentive to providers of fibre broadband and she made a perceptive | :17:03. | :17:06. | |
comment, as did my honourable friend for Bexhill and Battle that this | :17:07. | :17:13. | |
type of fibre broadband is becoming as an important part of our nation's | :17:14. | :17:20. | |
infrastructure as is currently our road and rail network. My honourable | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
friend for Boston and Skegness made a very important contribution and I | :17:26. | :17:33. | |
know has campaigned tirelessly on this particular issue, spoke about | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
the benefits the Government will get in terms of its investment in this | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
area being returned many times over, as a result of the increase in | :17:44. | :17:49. | |
economic activity it will create. My honourable friend for Cannock Chase | :17:50. | :17:56. | |
talked about the importance of fibre connectivity on new housing estates | :17:57. | :18:03. | |
and sited close water Grange and also mentioned the opportunity the | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
fibre roll-out could give to new industrial developments and my | :18:09. | :18:10. | |
honourable friend did not lose the opportunity or for covert, to | :18:11. | :18:16. | |
mention the rooms lead the power station site, which China is | :18:17. | :18:19. | |
important to her to her and her constituents. My honourable friend | :18:20. | :18:27. | |
for North East Hampshire welcomed the Bill and mentioned that in rural | :18:28. | :18:35. | |
areas, this profession could well assist tech jobs that had it you may | :18:36. | :18:42. | |
not have been able to be delivered in rural areas. I will give way. | :18:43. | :18:48. | |
Thank you, you are mentioning rural areas and I would like you to | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
reference my constituency, broadband is imperative not only for my | :18:55. | :19:01. | |
constituency need to log files but for many businesses across the three | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
towns I represent, Wayne collectivity in our rural areas and | :19:08. | :19:12. | |
a headache and comment that. High concurrent with what my honourable | :19:13. | :19:19. | |
friend says, and my honourable friend for Sleaford and North | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
Hykeham made similar comments with regard to how these types of | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
measures will help those engaged in her constituency in terms of the | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
agricultural industry and farming. So, Mr Speaker... In conclusion, | :19:34. | :19:42. | |
this Bill will help businesses and households with their broadband and | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
support the economy. It is only one of several measures. The House | :19:48. | :19:55. | |
cannot wait to hear more of the auditory of the honourable | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
gentleman. This is one of several measures we're taking on relating to | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
broadband and business rates and I commend it to the House. The | :20:04. | :20:11. | |
question is that the Bill now be read a second time. As many as are | :20:12. | :20:14. | |
of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". I think the ayes | :20:15. | :20:22. | |
have it. Motion to be moved formally. As many as are of the | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". The ayes have it. The question | :20:27. | :20:40. | |
is as on the order paper. As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
the contrary, "no". The ayes have it. Order, order. We come to the | :20:46. | :20:54. | |
adjournment. Quick to move. The question is that this House does now | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
adjourned. As I am often moved to observe, if inexplicably some | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
members do not wish to hear the debate on the future of the King | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
George Hospital in Ilford, I hope they will leave the Chamber quickly | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
and quietly. So we can hear the oration from the constituency Member | :21:16. | :21:22. | |
of Parliament and his neighbour, to whom the matter is of great | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
importance. The question is that this House do now adjourned. Thank | :21:28. | :21:33. | |
you, it is a pleasure to be called before 10pm. I wish to begin by | :21:34. | :21:44. | |
saying that earlier this evening, I was at a celebration function | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
organised by the barking Havering and Redbridge University trust. This | :21:49. | :21:55. | |
was to celebrate the fact that they, after three years, came out of | :21:56. | :22:03. | |
special measures in March. This event was a very good occasion | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
because it enabled me to get even more up-to-date information before | :22:09. | :22:17. | |
this debate. They have published ten tips to climb out of special | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
measures and I'm sure other NHS trusts may find this accountable. | :22:22. | :22:23. | |
They have also published a booklet, the only way is up, which is | :22:24. | :22:32. | |
original, and this details the strenuous efforts made by all the | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
staff and the management and various people that they were engaged with | :22:39. | :22:41. | |
in order to achieve this great progress. In my 25 years in this | :22:42. | :22:51. | |
House, I have often had to bring to the attention of the House and the | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
Government, problems in the NHS in my area. It's not the first time I | :22:58. | :23:04. | |
have talked about the future of King George Hospital. And although the | :23:05. | :23:13. | |
hospital, which is one of the two hospitals with Queen's Hospital, | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
Romford, within our trust, is now improving and is under the best | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
management, in my opinion, that it is ever had in 25 years, there are | :23:24. | :23:31. | |
still clouds on the horizon. Firstly, there is inexplicably a | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
delay in an announcement about the future of the north-east London NHS | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
treatment centre, where I understand there is some difference of opinion | :23:44. | :23:51. | |
between local CCGs and I have to declare an interest, I had an | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
operation on my nose in that facility a few years ago and found | :23:56. | :24:02. | |
it to be very good. But there is a very strong argument that this | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
facility could be brought in House, within the NHS and no longer | :24:07. | :24:15. | |
provided by Care UK as a provider. And that would allow greater | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
flexibility on site for longer planning of what might happen at | :24:21. | :24:27. | |
King George Hospital. Secondly, I referred to clouds on the horizon, | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
there is the ongoing social care crisis. This has impacted in my | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
local authority and neighbouring authorities very much. It is linked | :24:38. | :24:43. | |
to the 40% cuts in funding for Redbridge local authority which we | :24:44. | :24:51. | |
have hacked and also the one hand, ageing population but secondly... | :24:52. | :24:59. | |
Order, the two move. The question is that this House now do adjournment. | :25:00. | :25:09. | |
The ongoing social care crisis which has major difficulties. Private care | :25:10. | :25:18. | |
homes are struggling and there is an issue of quality. And one advantage | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
it seems to me of the King George Hospital site is that it is | :25:25. | :25:32. | |
co-located next door to the facilities of the north-east London | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
foundation trust, good maize hospital and its various other | :25:38. | :25:43. | |
facilities that provide support for people with learning difficulties, | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
people with acute and severe but also with minor, less severe mental | :25:47. | :25:54. | |
health problems. It would seem logical if we are going to have | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
joined up NHS treatment that we could have alongside a hospital | :26:00. | :26:07. | |
facilities for those who need short-term, temporary or maybe | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
longer care in a transition either to or from the NHS facilities next | :26:13. | :26:21. | |
door. This site is big enough to do that and with imagination, it could | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
be a model which could be followed. We also have a third cloud on the | :26:27. | :26:35. | |
horizon. Which is the north-east London draft stability and | :26:36. | :26:38. | |
transformation plan. The Minister will recall that he and I had a very | :26:39. | :26:46. | |
useful meeting in February when I met him and his then colleague, we | :26:47. | :26:53. | |
had a very useful discussion about the implications of the huge deficit | :26:54. | :27:04. | |
in north-east London, ?586 million, and the potential cuts that would be | :27:05. | :27:13. | |
huge. In the budget over the next four years. And the implications | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
that would have. I raise this in detail in the debate on the 16th of | :27:19. | :27:25. | |
December 2016 and that was why following that I had a meeting with | :27:26. | :27:32. | |
ministers. I have to say I am very concerned that the funding gap, even | :27:33. | :27:40. | |
if we have predicted regular savings within the NHS of around ?220 | :27:41. | :27:53. | |
million or ?240 million would still be ?336 million by 2021. One of the | :27:54. | :27:59. | |
most worrying points about this plan and I understand it's still a draft, | :28:00. | :28:05. | |
it has not been signed off, but I went to a meeting last week whether | :28:06. | :28:12. | |
people involved in this organisation looking at the plan were discussing | :28:13. | :28:21. | |
it and reference was made by senior figures in the London NHS to the | :28:22. | :28:27. | |
plan and they said, you have to work on the basis of the plan. The plan | :28:28. | :28:33. | |
has not been signed off, it has not been approved yet by the people | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
within the NHS health economy in north-east London are thinking ahead | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
as though it will be. And one of the points in that plan points out that | :28:43. | :28:48. | |
the population of the north-east London boroughs will increase by 18% | :28:49. | :28:58. | |
over the next 15 years. And that is equivalent to a new city. Normally | :28:59. | :29:05. | |
with that level of population increase you would need a new | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
hospital, but there is no provision and no funding and no expectation of | :29:10. | :29:18. | |
a new hospital. Instead what is proposed and it is still in the | :29:19. | :29:25. | |
plan, is the downgrading of the existing King George Hospital in my | :29:26. | :29:30. | |
constituency and the accident and emergency department to be taken | :29:31. | :29:37. | |
away. This is not a new proposal. In fact I have been campaigning to save | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
the A in my constituency for more than ten years. But formerly the | :29:43. | :29:51. | |
decision was only taken by the former Health Secretary Andrew | :29:52. | :30:02. | |
Lansley in 2011. That decision linked at that time to a suggestion | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
of closing the maternity services at King George Hospital said that those | :30:08. | :30:14. | |
two things would happen in around two years. That was October 2000 and | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
11. The reality is the maternity services did go in early 2013. They | :30:20. | :30:26. | |
went to Queens and they have been improvements, I don't question that, | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
but the way and he could not close, there was no capacity at other | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
hospitals in the region, in the area and in addition it was quite clear | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
that it required a huge capital investment that was not forthcoming. | :30:42. | :30:51. | |
So 2011 decision, 2013 no action. Issue was deferred and then because | :30:52. | :30:58. | |
of a variety of issues, the trust got into the special measures three | :30:59. | :31:03. | |
years ago to which I have already made mention. When the trust came | :31:04. | :31:10. | |
out of special measures, of course, then the question becomes does it | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
then go ahead with the plans to close the A? I know that it is | :31:16. | :31:23. | |
impossible practically for that closure to happen soon. But the | :31:24. | :31:32. | |
plan, the stability and transformation plan still says that | :31:33. | :31:40. | |
it is intended to close the a and D in 2019. The original suggestion was | :31:41. | :31:46. | |
that from September this year they would stop having a 24-hour service | :31:47. | :31:53. | |
and they would get rid of the overnight A In January, that was | :31:54. | :31:59. | |
dropped. Which I welcome. But the reality is it is still in the plan | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
and it is still proposed and this cloud still hangs over this trust | :32:06. | :32:12. | |
and all the accident staff who have done so much to bring our hospital | :32:13. | :32:21. | |
out of special measures. I give way. I congratulate him on securing this | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
important debate. In my capacity as a Labour councillor I am chairing a | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
cross-party working group on the future of A provision and one of | :32:32. | :32:35. | |
the frustrating things is that all of the local health leaves in | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
north-east London are working to a decision made by the previous | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
Secretary of State, a decision which still stands, they have to work | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
towards it, they do not believe it is achievable, clinically sound and | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
yet when pressed to abandon the plan they printed the -- point to the | :32:54. | :33:00. | |
Secretary of State. I hope the Minister will be able to reverse the | :33:01. | :33:07. | |
decision. I am grateful to that intervention. In fact, the Secretary | :33:08. | :33:18. | |
of State came to Ilford to my honourable friend constituency | :33:19. | :33:21. | |
during the election campaign for a private Conservative Party function | :33:22. | :33:28. | |
and he was asked by the local paper about the plans to close the A at | :33:29. | :33:35. | |
King George Hospital, and he said, quote, it would not be closed, there | :33:36. | :33:39. | |
were no plans to close it in the foreseeable future. I don't know how | :33:40. | :33:45. | |
big the crystal ball is, I don't know what kind of telescope the | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
Secretary of State has an witch and he is looking through. The fact is | :33:51. | :33:56. | |
foreseeable does not necessarily mean it is not going to close in | :33:57. | :34:02. | |
2019. If it is not going to close in the near future or even the | :34:03. | :34:08. | |
medium-term future, why not lift the cloud of uncertainty over the staff | :34:09. | :34:15. | |
and over the planning process? And secondly, then we could have a | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
serious look at the draft stability and transformation plan for | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
north-east London, which is predicated as part of its proposals | :34:25. | :34:28. | |
on the closure of the A at King George Hospital. In January, the | :34:29. | :34:39. | |
trust wrote a letter saying that it is our intention to make the changes | :34:40. | :34:45. | |
by 2019, but please be assured nothing will happen until we are | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
fully satisfied all necessary resources are in place, including | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
the additional capacity of neighbouring hospitals and we have | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
made sure it is safe for our patients. In the meantime, the | :34:58. | :35:04. | |
existing A facilities at King George will continue to operate as | :35:05. | :35:10. | |
now. The reality is there real snow additional resorts going in than the | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
capital that will be required to provide the beds for 400 patients at | :35:16. | :35:25. | |
King George Oval all and we are in a very uncertain future if the A was | :35:26. | :35:33. | |
to be close, where with this patients go? There would be need for | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
capital investment at Queens, big capital investment at whips across | :35:39. | :35:41. | |
and that would take time and resources at a time when NHS budgets | :35:42. | :35:48. | |
of seriously pressed, and we still have that huge deficit within our | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
regional health economy. Why not take the issue of the agenda and my | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
friend and I wrote jointly a letter to the Secretary of State with the | :36:00. | :36:06. | |
leader of our council, leader of Redbridge council last month | :36:07. | :36:12. | |
requesting that the Secretary of State reverse the decision taken by | :36:13. | :36:18. | |
his predecessor, formerly to allow certainty and allow planning on a | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
more sensible basis than we currently have. Last week, one of | :36:24. | :36:30. | |
our health campaigners who put various questions and freedom of | :36:31. | :36:37. | |
information requests, Andy Walker, who is a very persistent campaigner, | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
received a response from the barking, favouring an Redbridge | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
trust which commented on this issue and it also made clear the same | :36:47. | :36:52. | |
formulation. We have been very clear, no changes will be made until | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
we have the relevant assurance that it is safe to do so and this remains | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
the case. That formulation has been used for several years. It is like a | :37:02. | :37:09. | |
stuck record. It is not safe to make the changes, it is not safe, why not | :37:10. | :37:14. | |
have a new approach, an imaginative approach that says let's look at | :37:15. | :37:22. | |
social care? Look at the potential for developing the site? Look at | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
collaboration between the mental health services of the north-east | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
London foundation trust and providing particular forms of | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
housing and support? And this area could be a model for a new way | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
forward. I know from discussions I have had that there are people | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
within various NHS organisations who are currently working on | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
possibilities of this kind. But they cannot go any further than possible | :37:50. | :37:57. | |
explorations whilst this cloud of the threat to close the A still | :37:58. | :38:04. | |
lives on the table. If the Secretary of State would take that off the | :38:05. | :38:07. | |
table then we could have some serious discussions about | :38:08. | :38:13. | |
improvements to health facilities, not just dealing with the A but | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
also trying to deal with other issues. We have on the King George | :38:18. | :38:25. | |
site at this moment, we also have an urgent care centre which just | :38:26. | :38:34. | |
recently had a CQC inspection and was rated as requires improvement. | :38:35. | :38:41. | |
And this is an indication again of the problems that we face. I then my | :38:42. | :38:48. | |
constituency have a lot of inadequate GP facilities. I have | :38:49. | :38:51. | |
lots of problems with people coming to me complaining that they cannot | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
get through one-stop primary care has a crisis in north-east London. | :38:57. | :39:03. | |
Of of recruitment, of standards of services. Again, if we could have an | :39:04. | :39:11. | |
Emmanuel at it you of the facilities at the King George Hospital site, we | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
could make a big difference to primary care as well as to the acute | :39:16. | :39:18. | |
services and the mental health services next door. So my plea to | :39:19. | :39:24. | |
the Minister, to the Government is take the closure of the A off the | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
table and let us then work in a collaborative way to improve the NHS | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
in north-east London and in my constituency. It is a pleasure to | :39:35. | :39:46. | |
serve under you, Mr Speaker, this evening and to have another debate | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
sponsored by the honourable member for Ilford South and I congratulate | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
him for his tenacity in keeping the subject of the King George Hospital | :39:57. | :39:59. | |
at the forefront of health ministers's minds in recent years, | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
not least during my tenure as he rightly said earlier on, we had a | :40:05. | :40:11. | |
meeting in February with myself and my former colleague to discuss many | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
of the issues he has raised this evening, so I hope he will forgive | :40:16. | :40:20. | |
me if some of what I say he has heard before, but his honourable | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
friend their member for Ilford North, I congratulate him on joining | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
us this evening. He obviously has experience of these matters as well | :40:31. | :40:31. | |
given his role in the local council. I'd like to stand by joining the | :40:32. | :40:41. | |
honourable gentleman in paying tribute to the staff and management | :40:42. | :40:49. | |
at the University Hospital NHS Trust in the extenuating measures after | :40:50. | :40:52. | |
what has undoubtedly been a long journey for them over the last three | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
years. I was very pleased they were able to exit special measures in | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
March this year and it's a huge tribute to everyone involved in | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
ensuring they were focused on the areas where the CQC had identified | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
not the best practice and they have focused on improving the | :41:11. | :41:18. | |
deficiencies and the fact they were awarded an improved rating enabled | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
us to take that decision. I also join him in congratulating the | :41:24. | :41:26. | |
quality of management now in place on a substantive basis in the trust, | :41:27. | :41:31. | |
at least one of whose members has himself been a beneficiary of | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
treatment, I think for a different complaint to the honourable | :41:36. | :41:42. | |
gentleman, in the urgent, intermediate treatment centre but | :41:43. | :41:47. | |
all credit to that member of the executive team. He has touched on a | :41:48. | :41:53. | |
couple of clouds, as he described them, which I will touch on before I | :41:54. | :41:59. | |
get into the substance of my response. And the first was the | :42:00. | :42:05. | |
intermediate treatment centre, which provides elective and planned | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
procedures provided by an independent provider, Care UK, and | :42:11. | :42:17. | |
we do as he will appreciate, in fact, under the previous Labour | :42:18. | :42:27. | |
Government, when the independent sector was provided capacity to | :42:28. | :42:33. | |
support the NHS and a number of areas, we have had a policy of | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
allowing independent providers to be commissioned to undertake care and | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
this is a matter for the local commissioners in his area to do so. | :42:43. | :42:49. | |
It is not for me to tell them who are the best providers to undertake | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
care. I am pleased he was a beneficiary of some of that care and | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
it will be up to the commissioners working with the NHS to decide who | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
is best to provide services in his area, as they come up for renewal | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
from time to time. He also referred to the social care challenge which | :43:09. | :43:15. | |
exists in north-east London, as many other parts the country, which is | :43:16. | :43:21. | |
why we decided in the budget in March this year to inject additional | :43:22. | :43:29. | |
?1 billion into adult social care budgets of local authorities across | :43:30. | :43:32. | |
the country and a further ?1 billion in the next financial year and last | :43:33. | :43:39. | |
week announced some measures to scrutinise the performance of local | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
authorities in managing those budgets in particular, so they | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
contribute to the patient flew challenge, which we experience in | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
many hospitals, including the King George Hospital, of having patients | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
occupying hospital beds in acute settings who have no medical reason | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
to continue to be there because of the challenge of providing | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
placements into the community. It is important that is closer integration | :44:06. | :44:12. | |
of social care through local authorities but also, as he rightly | :44:13. | :44:15. | |
identifies, throughout the NHS providers, in particular if they are | :44:16. | :44:19. | |
co-located on the site and he describes an opportunity for the | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
north-east London and NHS Foundation Trust to work alongside BHR in | :44:24. | :44:30. | |
trying to smooth the passage and find other opportunities in the | :44:31. | :44:35. | |
community for a more appropriate patient flew, that was very | :44:36. | :44:39. | |
interesting and I very much hope he is engaging with the SDP leadership | :44:40. | :44:45. | |
to try to put some of these imaginative ideas forward in the | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
hope that some of them will be assessed appropriately when looking | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
at providing the future pattern of health care in his area. The | :44:54. | :45:00. | |
honourable gentleman is focused mostly about the challenge to the | :45:01. | :45:08. | |
A at King George and I would like to spend most of the rest of my | :45:09. | :45:15. | |
remarks on trying to address his concerns as best I can. He will | :45:16. | :45:23. | |
appreciate that across the country, the NHS is coming together through | :45:24. | :45:25. | |
the sustainability and transformation plans, as published | :45:26. | :45:34. | |
at the end of last year, to try to identify the right pattern of care | :45:35. | :45:42. | |
across an individual NHS footprint and north-east London has come | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
together within the SDP for that area and it is our view that this is | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
the right way to try to encourage a more holistic way of looking at the | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
future provision of NHS services. But it needs to be led by clinicians | :45:59. | :46:04. | |
and led by those responsible for managing NHS organisations and to | :46:05. | :46:07. | |
work in a collaborative and perhaps more open way than in the past with | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
local authorities, who have their part to play. In facilitating the | :46:12. | :46:22. | |
passage beyond hospital back into the community. We're clear that any | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
significant service change which arises out of the implementation of | :46:27. | :46:37. | |
STP plans must be subject to consultation proposals must meet | :46:38. | :46:44. | |
reconfiguration tests, which support for clinical commissioners, clarity | :46:45. | :46:51. | |
and a robust public and patient engagement of support for patient | :46:52. | :46:54. | |
choice. And there was additional NHS guidance which means that proposed | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
service reconfigurations should be tested for their impact on overall | :47:00. | :47:05. | |
bed numbers in the area, a point the honourable gentleman identified | :47:06. | :47:08. | |
appears to be lacking at present from the STP plans and something I | :47:09. | :47:11. | |
would urge him to continue to challenge within his area. I am | :47:12. | :47:20. | |
grateful to the Minister for giving way, can the Minister clarify | :47:21. | :47:23. | |
therefore that it would be his expectation that the STP process | :47:24. | :47:30. | |
should now publicly consult on any proposal he romped to close the A | :47:31. | :47:33. | |
at King George Hospital and furthermore that where the | :47:34. | :47:39. | |
recommends ministers that the A should remain, that ministers would | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
heed the advice and the STP process should not be constrained by the | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
decision made by the Secretary of State previously? I will have to | :47:48. | :47:53. | |
disappoint the honourable gentleman because I am not in a position to | :47:54. | :47:57. | |
second-guess the conclusions of the STP discussions and recommendations | :47:58. | :48:05. | |
that they make. It is appropriate for them to take into account its | :48:06. | :48:11. | |
clinical decisions made in the recent past and a decision over the | :48:12. | :48:16. | |
A at King George is one of those and it is up to them to decide | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
whether that is something they intend to take forward as the STP | :48:21. | :48:26. | |
evolves. It is right that the STP management looked at the health | :48:27. | :48:34. | |
provision in the round, they will be responsible for delivering health | :48:35. | :48:37. | |
care to local residents and they need to take into account all the | :48:38. | :48:40. | |
information sources they have available. I don't think it is right | :48:41. | :48:49. | |
to say they have to necessarily re-consult on issues, they need to | :48:50. | :48:58. | |
form a view as to what is the right configuration and then use available | :48:59. | :49:04. | |
data sources and go through the process. I will come on to try to | :49:05. | :49:15. | |
explain to him the process that as I understand it is now under way in | :49:16. | :49:24. | |
his area. Both honourable gentlemen are right that it was a decision in | :49:25. | :49:32. | |
2011 by the then Secretary of State on advice from the independent | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
reconfiguration panel, who approved the proposal, that the north-east | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
London scheme should be allowed to proceed. That the Secretary of State | :49:42. | :49:48. | |
at the time and, as repeated since by anybody who has asked the | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
question of health authorities in the area, made it very clear that no | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
changes were to take place until it was clinically safe to do so. I | :49:58. | :50:01. | |
believe it is in that context that remarks which might have been made | :50:02. | :50:05. | |
by the Secretary of State when visiting the area recently should be | :50:06. | :50:15. | |
considered. There can't be a number of changes since the decision was | :50:16. | :50:24. | |
made -- there have been a number of changes. First of all, the STP team | :50:25. | :50:30. | |
are reviewing entry validating the modelling used in 2010 to ensure | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
proposals then made remain appropriates, which is as one would | :50:37. | :50:43. | |
expect. Secondly, the governing members of the CCG board, the trust | :50:44. | :50:47. | |
board and the STP port will need to agree the business case that arises | :50:48. | :50:56. | |
coming out of STP recommendations. Thirdly, once that has been | :50:57. | :51:01. | |
achieved, if it is, both NHS England and NHS improvement would be | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
required to approve the business case. And finally, it is envisaged | :51:06. | :51:15. | |
it would be a clinically led Gateway assurance team, and NHS construct, | :51:16. | :51:19. | |
who would manage a series of Gateway reviews at different stages of the | :51:20. | :51:23. | |
process, from planning to implementation, as they project | :51:24. | :51:31. | |
proceeds, to assure patient safety and system readiness at every step. | :51:32. | :51:43. | |
Does he think the whole process could be completed by 2019? I am | :51:44. | :51:50. | |
going to have to disappoint him again, it is not for me to prejudge | :51:51. | :51:54. | |
how long I would take. I think in all honesty, it is most unlikely | :51:55. | :52:02. | |
that would take place within less than two years, so it is conceivable | :52:03. | :52:08. | |
it could be concluded by the end of 2019 but I think it is a two-year | :52:09. | :52:20. | |
process. As a minimum. In the meantime, CQC visits and reports | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
will continue to take place on a routine basis, now that the trust | :52:25. | :52:30. | |
has exited special measures they will be somewhat less frequent than | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
when they were in special measures and any information coming from that | :52:35. | :52:37. | |
well-informed decisions taken by rate the trust and the STP area. In | :52:38. | :52:47. | |
the last comment I make, I would like to try to reassure the | :52:48. | :52:53. | |
honourable gentleman and their residents that the proposals include | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
a new urgent care centre at King George Hospital which would provide | :52:59. | :53:07. | |
emergency support to local residents for the majority of present | :53:08. | :53:13. | |
attendances at A, which would be handled by the urgent care centre. | :53:14. | :53:18. | |
It would be blue light trauma and emergency cases requiring full | :53:19. | :53:25. | |
emergency medical teams to provide support to patients which would take | :53:26. | :53:32. | |
place at other hospitals in the area. The majority of cases | :53:33. | :53:37. | |
currently treated at King George would continue to do so in the new | :53:38. | :53:41. | |
urgent care centre would benefit from a number of improvements, | :53:42. | :53:47. | |
including more space and access for diagnosis, x-ray, blood tests and so | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
on. I hope that would provide the honourable gentleman with some | :53:53. | :53:57. | |
reassurance that facilities which would remain at King George would | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
continue to provide the majority of their constituents with the care | :54:03. | :54:05. | |
they need, should they need it in an emergency. Taking an intervention or | :54:06. | :54:17. | |
concluded? Very briefly, what the minister is saying is that the STP | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
process should not be constrained by the decision of 2011 if they think | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
it was the wrong decision? It should be informed by decisions taken in | :54:26. | :54:32. | |
2010 but it will be up to today's STP leadership to decide what to do. | :54:33. | :54:38. | |
The question is that this House now do adjourn. As many as are of the | :54:39. | :54:41. | |
opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". The ayes have it. Order, | :54:42. | :54:42. | |
order. Subtitles will resume at 11pm, | :54:43. | :54:56. | |
with Monday In Parliament. | :54:57. | :55:07. |