
Browse content similar to 26/10/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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|---|---|---|---|
Would it be possible for that to
happen? I am sure | 0:00:00 | 0:00:00 | |
the Leader of the House will take on
board the views of the House and | 0:00:04 | 0:00:07 | |
will want to check what information
was given and I am sure the House | 0:00:07 | 0:00:10 | |
matters to all members and therefore
I would like to think things will be | 0:00:10 | 0:00:12 | |
put in place to make sure things do
not happen like that again. We now | 0:00:12 | 0:00:15 | |
come to the backbench debate on the
implementation of the modern slavery | 0:00:15 | 0:00:18 | |
act 2015. Vernon Coaker to move.
Thank you. Can I refer to my | 0:00:18 | 0:00:20 | |
declaration of interests in the
members register? Can I also thank | 0:00:20 | 0:00:23 | |
the honourable member for Maidstone
and all the other colleagues who | 0:00:23 | 0:00:26 | |
have helped bring about this
backbench business debate here this | 0:00:26 | 0:00:32 | |
afternoon? Can I thank the Minister
as well for her attendants? I know | 0:00:32 | 0:00:37 | |
all members are united by their
desire to do as much as we can to | 0:00:37 | 0:00:41 | |
tackle the scourge of modern
slavery. Over 200 years ago, | 0:00:41 | 0:00:47 | |
politicians described slavery as an
activity so enormous and horrible | 0:00:47 | 0:00:50 | |
that there was no parallel to it in
the annals of the world. Wilberforce | 0:00:50 | 0:00:54 | |
said it was our duty to put a stop
speediest possible to the traffic | 0:00:54 | 0:01:01 | |
and sale of our fellow men, but here
we are in 2017 were slavery still | 0:01:01 | 0:01:06 | |
exists in our country and the
horrible reality demands more than | 0:01:06 | 0:01:10 | |
our emotional outrage, it demands
even more action on our part. Just | 0:01:10 | 0:01:15 | |
15 years ago, many MPs would have
suggested that perhaps slavery did | 0:01:15 | 0:01:20 | |
not exist. But thanks, and I say
this to the campaign and for many | 0:01:20 | 0:01:24 | |
people in this House including
former colleagues, much has changed. | 0:01:24 | 0:01:35 | |
Referrals into the Government's
mechanism for identifying rises | 0:01:35 | 0:01:40 | |
year-on-year. The number of
prosecutions also rises annually. We | 0:01:40 | 0:01:47 | |
have a parliament and indeed, to be
fair, a Prime Minister with a | 0:01:47 | 0:01:51 | |
genuine desire to tackle this issue.
We have what was regarded and is to | 0:01:51 | 0:01:56 | |
be fair, trailblazing act that
offers life sentences for | 0:01:56 | 0:02:05 | |
traffickers and provides a statutory
defence against criminality for | 0:02:05 | 0:02:07 | |
victims. We have additional funding
going to police, international aid | 0:02:07 | 0:02:09 | |
and safe houses. And the commitment
from all of us in this House and | 0:02:09 | 0:02:14 | |
those who work in the Home Office on
this issue cannot be doubted. I hope | 0:02:14 | 0:02:19 | |
the Home Secretary will accept this
in the spirit that I mean it, that | 0:02:19 | 0:02:22 | |
it is important to challenge where
we are, and we look at what still | 0:02:22 | 0:02:25 | |
needs to be done in order to take
this issue forwards. For too often, | 0:02:25 | 0:02:30 | |
what we say does not happen in
practice. Many traffickers | 0:02:30 | 0:02:40 | |
themselves are not getting caught,
and those who are caught in many | 0:02:40 | 0:02:42 | |
circumstances are receding minimal
sentences. And many slaves are not | 0:02:42 | 0:02:44 | |
being freed. When they are, and many
are being lost, as the Minister | 0:02:44 | 0:02:50 | |
knows, our children. The challenge
for us is to find them. More | 0:02:50 | 0:02:56 | |
potential victims are being
identified. 3805 in 2016. I want to | 0:02:56 | 0:03:03 | |
point out that 1227 of those were
actually children in our country, in | 0:03:03 | 0:03:08 | |
2017. But it is still a long way, as
the minister will know, from her own | 0:03:08 | 0:03:15 | |
ministerial office's estimates of
the ten to 13,000 in this country. | 0:03:15 | 0:03:21 | |
So we have to ask, why is that? Why
are victims not coming forward? | 0:03:21 | 0:03:29 | |
Sometimes people who should
recognise victims do not identify | 0:03:29 | 0:03:32 | |
them. Local authorities have a duty
to identify but many are not. There | 0:03:32 | 0:03:36 | |
has been little funding to train
their staff and as the 2016 data | 0:03:36 | 0:03:41 | |
shows many local authorities find no
one at all. The second reason is we | 0:03:41 | 0:03:47 | |
have little to offer the victims
when they are found. We ask victims | 0:03:47 | 0:03:50 | |
to leave living under a trafficker's
roof, risking repercussion, threats | 0:03:50 | 0:03:56 | |
and violence and if adults do
consent to enter the system, there | 0:03:56 | 0:04:03 | |
are time-limited support, fears for
their immigration status and | 0:04:03 | 0:04:08 | |
long-term uncertainty, even if at
the end of the process they are | 0:04:08 | 0:04:10 | |
found to be victims. Should we be
surprised that the small numbers? If | 0:04:10 | 0:04:14 | |
we are not surprised that, what is
it we're actually going to do about | 0:04:14 | 0:04:19 | |
it, to actually increase that
number? The National referral | 0:04:19 | 0:04:24 | |
mechanism at its heart on
traumatised people who have often | 0:04:24 | 0:04:28 | |
only known betrayal to immediately
agreed to go into a government | 0:04:28 | 0:04:33 | |
system. And if they don't, they have
to fend for themselves, although a | 0:04:33 | 0:04:39 | |
small minority may be supported by
NGOs, with the rest receiving no | 0:04:39 | 0:04:44 | |
support. One NGO found outside of
the national referral system, found | 0:04:44 | 0:04:49 | |
three fifths of survivors will go
into the national referral | 0:04:49 | 0:04:52 | |
mechanism, if they are given a
preliminary period of support of say | 0:04:52 | 0:04:59 | |
six weeks. I would ask the Minister
if she would recognise that we need | 0:04:59 | 0:05:02 | |
to do more to make sure victims feel
safe and secure entering the | 0:05:02 | 0:05:06 | |
national referral mechanism and what
the Minister proposes to do. But | 0:05:06 | 0:05:13 | |
there are other problems. The
statutory national recovery and | 0:05:13 | 0:05:19 | |
reflection period support 45 days.
That is not in itself adequate. | 0:05:19 | 0:05:23 | |
Frequent delays mean an average
since 95 days and it can take longer | 0:05:23 | 0:05:27 | |
than that to access legal or health
support. And safe suitable | 0:05:27 | 0:05:33 | |
accommodation is not a given. There
is not a minimum standard. Section | 0:05:33 | 0:05:37 | |
50 of the slavery act gives powers
to induce regulation and support | 0:05:37 | 0:05:41 | |
that these have not yet been
implemented. Entire families were | 0:05:41 | 0:05:47 | |
example could be housed in one room,
sometimes hours away from any of the | 0:05:47 | 0:05:50 | |
services they need, and there is
also not enough specialist | 0:05:50 | 0:05:53 | |
accommodation and not just for those
with children. Traffickers often | 0:05:53 | 0:05:57 | |
target those with learning
difficulties or addiction issues and | 0:05:57 | 0:06:03 | |
yet our services for survivors oddly
do not. Would the Minister tell us | 0:06:03 | 0:06:08 | |
what her thoughts are about
extending the amount of faith have | 0:06:08 | 0:06:10 | |
provision there is for those with
specialist needs, and introduce care | 0:06:10 | 0:06:15 | |
standards along the lines of
recommendations published by the | 0:06:15 | 0:06:18 | |
human trafficking foundation and
supported by the Commissioner, to | 0:06:18 | 0:06:23 | |
guarantee survivors receive
high-quality support. It is this | 0:06:23 | 0:06:26 | |
lack of support that is a real
challenge for the system. The | 0:06:26 | 0:06:30 | |
Minister will also know that the UK
has no data on what actually happens | 0:06:30 | 0:06:35 | |
to victims beyond the 45 days, and
no system to ensure survivors don't | 0:06:35 | 0:06:42 | |
fall back actually into
exploitation. We spent 10 million | 0:06:42 | 0:06:46 | |
each year providing short-term
support, only to end the support | 0:06:46 | 0:06:50 | |
once the decision is made on whether
the person is actually trafficked or | 0:06:50 | 0:06:53 | |
not. The Modern Slavery Act, unlike
other acts, does not explicitly | 0:06:53 | 0:06:58 | |
place a duty on the state to provide
support or state the victim's | 0:06:58 | 0:07:06 | |
entitlements. Section 49 says these
will be set up in guidance but can I | 0:07:06 | 0:07:10 | |
ask the minister when that guidance
is set to be published? Thank you | 0:07:10 | 0:07:14 | |
for giving way. He may not know that
this is a very important campaign | 0:07:14 | 0:07:19 | |
for the co-operative party. Isn't it
the case that people who have been | 0:07:19 | 0:07:22 | |
entrapped into slavery do not stop
being victims when it has been | 0:07:22 | 0:07:26 | |
identified, it can take many years
for them to recover and rebuild | 0:07:26 | 0:07:30 | |
their lives? I thank my honourable
friend. That is the crucial point | 0:07:30 | 0:07:36 | |
which is often why Eddie end of the
45 day period, there is a period of | 0:07:36 | 0:07:41 | |
further support they may be given,
but the evidence shows the vast | 0:07:41 | 0:07:45 | |
majority of people who enter that,
fall back into exploitation or | 0:07:45 | 0:07:51 | |
indeed read trafficked. Something
needs to be done to deal with that. | 0:07:51 | 0:07:55 | |
And again, just picking up on my
honourable friend's point, the | 0:07:55 | 0:08:00 | |
police say they have referred the
same individual often into the | 0:08:00 | 0:08:05 | |
national referral mechanism multiple
times. Does the honourable member | 0:08:05 | 0:08:10 | |
agree with me tracing perpetrators,
all of our anti-slavery aims | 0:08:10 | 0:08:16 | |
throughout the UK including
Scotland, how will they continue to | 0:08:16 | 0:08:20 | |
function effectively? Will they
function effectively once we have | 0:08:20 | 0:08:24 | |
left the EU, especially if it means
we will be leaving intelligence | 0:08:24 | 0:08:30 | |
sharing agencies like Europol? I
think there will be challenges and I | 0:08:30 | 0:08:35 | |
thank the honourable member for
raising that point. We have to show | 0:08:35 | 0:08:40 | |
that even if we do leave the
European Union as the honourable | 0:08:40 | 0:08:44 | |
member says, we have to look at how
we replicate those systems with | 0:08:44 | 0:08:47 | |
whatever deal is done. It is crucial
to the victims, and I totally agree | 0:08:47 | 0:08:53 | |
with that remark. Mr Deputy Speaker,
each time survivors have left safe | 0:08:53 | 0:08:58 | |
houses, they remain destitute again
and targeted by traffickers. It is | 0:08:58 | 0:09:06 | |
life destroying for the survivors.
Surely, and I say to the Minister, | 0:09:06 | 0:09:10 | |
we have to accept that the
short-term system of support fails | 0:09:10 | 0:09:14 | |
us all and we need to look both as
victims, the police and government | 0:09:14 | 0:09:17 | |
and all of us at what more we could
do. If I could just finish this | 0:09:17 | 0:09:22 | |
point. For example, a refugee
granted asylum receives five years | 0:09:22 | 0:09:26 | |
of leave to remain in the UK. Surely
some in is recognised as enslaved | 0:09:26 | 0:09:34 | |
and entitle a person to some sort of
similar provision if not indeed five | 0:09:34 | 0:09:39 | |
years. I thank the honourable
gentleman for giving way and | 0:09:39 | 0:09:42 | |
congratulate him on bringing this to
the House. He is making an excellent | 0:09:42 | 0:09:46 | |
speech on such an important issue.
Would he agree with me that | 0:09:46 | 0:09:50 | |
domestically the justice system in
the UK is not set up to deal with | 0:09:50 | 0:09:54 | |
these matters and the burden of
proof is so high for a conviction, | 0:09:54 | 0:09:58 | |
that very often someone goes free
and the leave to remain is dependent | 0:09:58 | 0:10:02 | |
on a conviction, when those two
things should absolutely be | 0:10:02 | 0:10:07 | |
separated? I will come onto that but
that is absolutely crucial, that | 0:10:07 | 0:10:13 | |
relationship between a victim and
often are placed into and | 0:10:13 | 0:10:21 | |
immigration system where they are
regarded as trafficked but they have | 0:10:21 | 0:10:24 | |
no status in the UK. I know that is
something the Minister is looking at | 0:10:24 | 0:10:27 | |
but it is a real problem with the
way the system operates at the | 0:10:27 | 0:10:32 | |
moment. The work and pensions
committee made recommendations along | 0:10:32 | 0:10:37 | |
these lines. We cannot continue to
lose so many survivors, many of them | 0:10:37 | 0:10:45 | |
back to the same traffickers. As
Wilberforce himself said, you may | 0:10:45 | 0:10:49 | |
choose to look the other way, but
you can never again say you did not | 0:10:49 | 0:10:52 | |
know. It is upon us as legislators
to say what we actually going to do | 0:10:52 | 0:10:57 | |
about this? Survivors need time and
assistance... I thank my right | 0:10:57 | 0:11:02 | |
honourable friend for giving way, he
has been generous with his time. One | 0:11:02 | 0:11:07 | |
of the critical issues here is a
inspection and enforcement within | 0:11:07 | 0:11:10 | |
the Labour market. Would he agree
with me that resource in that is a | 0:11:10 | 0:11:16 | |
crucial point? A recent report by
focus on Labour exploitation, | 0:11:16 | 0:11:21 | |
charity of which I am a trustee,
detailed how far we are lagging | 0:11:21 | 0:11:26 | |
behind other countries and they
recommended levels of resource Inc. | 0:11:26 | 0:11:31 | |
Is he concerned that we only have
4000 inspectors per 10,000 workers | 0:11:31 | 0:11:36 | |
when Poland and Norway have twice as
many and Ireland spends twice as | 0:11:36 | 0:11:44 | |
much and does he think the issue
needs to be addressed by the | 0:11:44 | 0:11:49 | |
Minister? I think my honourable
friend put the question very well. | 0:11:49 | 0:11:54 | |
There is a need to look at the whole
area of labour enforcement. I know | 0:11:54 | 0:11:59 | |
the cooperation between the gang
masters licensing and the Home | 0:11:59 | 0:12:01 | |
Office, it is that sharing of data
and information is important. If I | 0:12:01 | 0:12:06 | |
can make one other point, it is also
this case of awareness. Just last | 0:12:06 | 0:12:12 | |
week in my own authority, Gedling
Borough Council, there was a farm | 0:12:12 | 0:12:19 | |
and they found a victim of labour
exploitation working on their farm. | 0:12:19 | 0:12:23 | |
It was found either person being
aware, a chance remark that caused | 0:12:23 | 0:12:29 | |
them to question what was happening.
I think part of it was enforcement | 0:12:29 | 0:12:33 | |
but it is also about raising
awareness said people may question | 0:12:33 | 0:12:36 | |
what is happening in terms of trying
to report back to the appropriate | 0:12:36 | 0:12:40 | |
authorities. I will give way. Can I
just say before I do give way, the | 0:12:40 | 0:12:46 | |
Speaker, I have been in this House a
long time and you give way a lot, | 0:12:46 | 0:12:51 | |
but you cannot have it both ways.
I'm sure that you want to finish | 0:12:51 | 0:12:58 | |
within 15 minutes to give everybody
from when you started, because the | 0:12:58 | 0:13:01 | |
benefit of it is, I will be putting
a time limit of seven minutes on. I | 0:13:01 | 0:13:05 | |
don't want to have to reduce that to
six. Are you sure you want to? If I | 0:13:05 | 0:13:12 | |
may, thank you for giving way. As
someone who has prosecuted offences | 0:13:12 | 0:13:16 | |
of servitude in the past, I am
grateful to him for the passion he | 0:13:16 | 0:13:21 | |
is showing for this horrible
offence. Would he join me in Penn | 0:13:21 | 0:13:26 | |
tribute to the Salvation Army who
held an event to get a message out | 0:13:26 | 0:13:29 | |
that everyone needs to be on their
guard? Can I just say on the serious | 0:13:29 | 0:13:37 | |
point that the honourable member has
raised, of course I pay tribute to | 0:13:37 | 0:13:42 | |
people like that in Cheltenham, but
also to all the honourable members | 0:13:42 | 0:13:46 | |
of this House so I know to draw to
the authority of their areas to | 0:13:46 | 0:13:52 | |
combat this crime. Mr Deputy
Speaker, survivors need time and | 0:13:52 | 0:13:58 | |
assistance to access justice, but
also accessing compensation, | 0:13:58 | 0:14:03 | |
something tried to recognise as
critical by the Modern Slavery Act. | 0:14:03 | 0:14:07 | |
Surely we don't want to make crime
pay? Between 2004 and 2014, 211 | 0:14:07 | 0:14:13 | |
persons were convicted of human
trafficking and slavery. But | 0:14:13 | 0:14:16 | |
according to the figures I have got,
only eight compensation orders were | 0:14:16 | 0:14:21 | |
made for these crimes, amounting in
total to £70,000. It does seem to me | 0:14:21 | 0:14:27 | |
that we do need to look at this
whole question of compensation for | 0:14:27 | 0:14:32 | |
victims. And where the courts do
order traffickers to pay, many do | 0:14:32 | 0:14:37 | |
not pay up, having moved their
assets abroad, again, something we | 0:14:37 | 0:14:41 | |
need to look at and I would be
grateful if the Minister in her | 0:14:41 | 0:14:45 | |
response does. Gene Simmons, a
tireless campaigner who seized an | 0:14:45 | 0:14:53 | |
award from the human trafficking
foundation provides a powerful | 0:14:53 | 0:14:57 | |
example of how powerful it is for
survivors to access support. Her son | 0:14:57 | 0:15:03 | |
Daryl was enslaved by a traveller
family. He worked day and night for | 0:15:03 | 0:15:07 | |
over 13 years for no pay. The police
refused to recognise that he was at | 0:15:07 | 0:15:11 | |
risk some in the end he was found
and recognised by his own family. | 0:15:11 | 0:15:17 | |
Four years after being rescued,
Daryl has still not had a penny of | 0:15:17 | 0:15:21 | |
compensation and nor has he received
the sort of support that we might | 0:15:21 | 0:15:26 | |
expect. It is also the case that
while the act focuses on criminal | 0:15:26 | 0:15:32 | |
justice without prioritising
support, I would suggest to the | 0:15:32 | 0:15:34 | |
minister we will not get the level
of prosecutions, let alone the level | 0:15:34 | 0:15:38 | |
of convictions that we would want.
Prosecution and conviction rates are | 0:15:38 | 0:15:42 | |
broadly rising but still remain far
too low. According to the CPS, 295 | 0:15:42 | 0:15:49 | |
human trafficking prosecutions were
completed in 2016/ 17. However, the | 0:15:49 | 0:15:55 | |
number of convictions actually fell
from 192 in 15/16 to 181 in 2016/ | 0:15:55 | 0:16:04 | |
17. The police often say why they
are failing to catch victims, they | 0:16:04 | 0:16:10 | |
are unable to get access to art
accommodation or benefits and many | 0:16:10 | 0:16:17 | |
will go missing before they get into
the national referral mechanism. But | 0:16:17 | 0:16:21 | |
there are many challenges also
facing the police. The HMRC report | 0:16:21 | 0:16:26 | |
this week said however, many victims
of modern slavery received a wholly | 0:16:26 | 0:16:32 | |
inadequate service from the police.
And the report described at host of | 0:16:32 | 0:16:36 | |
concerns. | 0:16:36 | 0:16:44 | |
An independent inspector made a
number of really serious criticisms | 0:16:44 | 0:16:48 | |
about the way in which the police
dealt with this issue, lack of focus | 0:16:48 | 0:16:52 | |
on victims, tendency to refer those
without equal status to an | 0:16:52 | 0:16:58 | |
immigration services, appoint our
colleague was speaking, concerns | 0:16:58 | 0:17:04 | |
about the quality of investigations,
investigations being closed | 0:17:04 | 0:17:08 | |
prematurely. This is what HMIC said,
the result was that we are leaving | 0:17:08 | 0:17:13 | |
victims of protected while offenders
are not brought to justice. To | 0:17:13 | 0:17:18 | |
conclude with a couple of further
remarks, as I think you are | 0:17:18 | 0:17:22 | |
encouraging me to do, I have not
touched on the issue of children. | 0:17:22 | 0:17:27 | |
Yet we have seen with respect to
children large numbers of children, | 0:17:27 | 0:17:31 | |
many brought into care of the state
as a result of trafficking or | 0:17:31 | 0:17:39 | |
suspected of being trafficked. What
happens to those children as we saw | 0:17:39 | 0:17:42 | |
in a recent report is many abscond,
leave or are taken away. It cannot | 0:17:42 | 0:17:50 | |
be acceptable that in our country in
2017, we cannot protect our children | 0:17:50 | 0:17:57 | |
that are brought into the care of
the state. It cannot be right. So we | 0:17:57 | 0:18:03 | |
need to understand and think what
more can be done. I think it is | 0:18:03 | 0:18:09 | |
important that we look at the act,
review it, consider the section is | 0:18:09 | 0:18:16 | |
still to be implemented, we consider
what more needs to be done. I will | 0:18:16 | 0:18:20 | |
finish with this. In 2006, I was the
minister in the Home Office and I | 0:18:20 | 0:18:29 | |
had responsibility for this area of
work. In 2017, and for four years | 0:18:29 | 0:18:36 | |
between 2006 and 2017, I had much of
the responsibility for dealing with | 0:18:36 | 0:18:40 | |
this, so when I challenged the
Government, it is a challenge to all | 0:18:40 | 0:18:44 | |
of us, to what I did, to everyone of
us, to every local authority, every | 0:18:44 | 0:18:50 | |
police force, everyone amongst us,
that we have to challenge ourselves | 0:18:50 | 0:18:54 | |
to do better, it is not acceptable
that modern slavery still exists, it | 0:18:54 | 0:18:58 | |
is a blight on the conscience of
this nation and whilst we have done | 0:18:58 | 0:19:07 | |
a lot, there is so much more to do.
Those people who are enslaved | 0:19:07 | 0:19:10 | |
deserve our help and support. Can I
just say, what an important debate | 0:19:10 | 0:19:13 | |
it is? The question is, the House
has considered the implementation of | 0:19:13 | 0:19:21 | |
the modern slavery act 2015. The
seven minute limit from now on. I | 0:19:21 | 0:19:28 | |
declare an interest in this debate
as a trustee of the Human | 0:19:28 | 0:19:32 | |
Trafficking Foundation. I first of
all want to pay tribute to a group | 0:19:32 | 0:19:39 | |
of mainly former parliamentarians
and a former judge who is still in | 0:19:39 | 0:19:42 | |
the other place. Anthony Steen, MBE,
Baroness Butler-Sloss, the right | 0:19:42 | 0:19:49 | |
honourable Clare Short, The right
honourable Sir John Randall, and the | 0:19:49 | 0:19:54 | |
right honourable Fiona McTaggart.
Not forgetting of course the right | 0:19:54 | 0:19:57 | |
honourable member current chair of
the APPG jeep on human trafficking | 0:19:57 | 0:20:03 | |
and modern slavery. Without their
passion, foresight and commitment, | 0:20:03 | 0:20:09 | |
we would not be in the position we
are today in the cause of defeating | 0:20:09 | 0:20:15 | |
human trafficking. I also want to
thank the Salvation Army and its | 0:20:15 | 0:20:19 | |
partners for the incredible work
they do at the coal face, looking | 0:20:19 | 0:20:23 | |
after and supporting victims of this
terrible crime. For me, human | 0:20:23 | 0:20:28 | |
trafficking is a scourge, it does
not discriminate, it permeates | 0:20:28 | 0:20:35 | |
across age, race, class and gender.
It also crushes self-confidence and | 0:20:35 | 0:20:42 | |
self-esteem which are the
prerequisites for aspiration, | 0:20:42 | 0:20:46 | |
motivation and success. This
exploitation of vulnerable men, | 0:20:46 | 0:20:51 | |
women and children by predatory
criminal groups is something that no | 0:20:51 | 0:20:57 | |
civilised society should tolerate.
It creates victims who are often | 0:20:57 | 0:21:02 | |
some of the most vulnerable members
of society, separated from their | 0:21:02 | 0:21:07 | |
families and friends with no access
to financial help or support. As I | 0:21:07 | 0:21:14 | |
speak today, I am reminded of a
young man I met around three years | 0:21:14 | 0:21:18 | |
ago when I was the victim 's
Minister. He dispelled many of the | 0:21:18 | 0:21:24 | |
myths surrounding human trafficking,
namely he was a man, he was British, | 0:21:24 | 0:21:28 | |
and he was trafficked for forced
labour. He bravely shared with me | 0:21:28 | 0:21:33 | |
his story of absolute misery. And
how he was dehumanised and degraded. | 0:21:33 | 0:21:41 | |
The meeting drove home to me just
how important it is for government, | 0:21:41 | 0:21:47 | |
local authorities and all of our
partners to work more effectively | 0:21:47 | 0:21:51 | |
together. Thanks to the efforts of
many, including our Prime Minister, | 0:21:51 | 0:21:56 | |
some good progress has been made in
tackling in combating trafficking. | 0:21:56 | 0:22:01 | |
Indeed the modern slavery act 2015
has been a landmark for success. We | 0:22:01 | 0:22:06 | |
now have a wide range of laws to
protect victims and a wide range of | 0:22:06 | 0:22:11 | |
organisations to support victims but
there is still much more that needs | 0:22:11 | 0:22:16 | |
to be done. There needs to be far
more focus on prevention by tackling | 0:22:16 | 0:22:23 | |
the issue at source and working
smarter at our borders. We must | 0:22:23 | 0:22:27 | |
improve prosecution and conviction
rates, improve data collection, and | 0:22:27 | 0:22:33 | |
deal with ongoing scepticism and
poor response, still greeting | 0:22:33 | 0:22:39 | |
victims when they try to report
abuse. This can certainly come from | 0:22:39 | 0:22:45 | |
people and organisations that ought
to know better, such as the police. | 0:22:45 | 0:22:49 | |
I know this government's ambition is
to eradicate all forms of human | 0:22:49 | 0:22:53 | |
trafficking. I know too many
millions of pounds have been spent | 0:22:53 | 0:22:58 | |
in supporting victims. But I think
our Home Secretary summed up the | 0:22:58 | 0:23:04 | |
position very well and candidly when
she wrote the following in April of | 0:23:04 | 0:23:07 | |
this year. She said, we must be
better at getting immediate support | 0:23:07 | 0:23:12 | |
to victims when they are at their
most vulnerable. Otherwise they just | 0:23:12 | 0:23:18 | |
slip through the net. To be abused
all over again. Then we lose any | 0:23:18 | 0:23:25 | |
opportunity to gain information on
the criminals who exploited them in | 0:23:25 | 0:23:28 | |
the first place. We also want to
make sure that victims are able to | 0:23:28 | 0:23:35 | |
rebuild their lives. Our aspiration
to help these people is in the right | 0:23:35 | 0:23:39 | |
place, but at present, the provision
of support may yet not be. Clearly | 0:23:39 | 0:23:48 | |
the Home Secretary recognises that
more needs to be done. And I will | 0:23:48 | 0:23:52 | |
therefore focus my suggestions today
on what can be done, on a group of | 0:23:52 | 0:23:57 | |
people who the authorities accept as
victims of human trafficking, namely | 0:23:57 | 0:24:02 | |
those who receive a positive and
conclusive grounds decision. First | 0:24:02 | 0:24:07 | |
of all, the conclusive grounds
decision must carry with it more | 0:24:07 | 0:24:11 | |
status, weight and meaning. In my
view, victims of trafficking victim | 0:24:11 | 0:24:16 | |
to the same vulnerable group as
refugees and victims of torture. It | 0:24:16 | 0:24:21 | |
therefore seems right that
conclusive grounds should carry with | 0:24:21 | 0:24:25 | |
them the same 12 months residency
permit, not only would this provide | 0:24:25 | 0:24:30 | |
the stability and assurances that
victims need to begin to recover, | 0:24:30 | 0:24:35 | |
but it would also create a better
environment for victims to assist | 0:24:35 | 0:24:40 | |
law enforcement agencies in finding
and prosecuting perpetrators. | 0:24:40 | 0:24:45 | |
Second, the paperwork received by
victims with positive conclusive | 0:24:45 | 0:24:50 | |
grounds must be recognisable and
transferable, the current form, to | 0:24:50 | 0:24:54 | |
be frank, is flimsy, short and
unhelpful. This should be recognised | 0:24:54 | 0:24:59 | |
by other government departments and
agencies and allow access to | 0:24:59 | 0:25:02 | |
appropriate services. Third, victims
need advice from those who | 0:25:02 | 0:25:07 | |
understand the system in relation to
accommodation, immigration and | 0:25:07 | 0:25:13 | |
employment support. The system which
personally, as a lawyer, some 23 | 0:25:13 | 0:25:18 | |
years, now an MP, I often struggle
to deal with. Victims with | 0:25:18 | 0:25:22 | |
conclusive grounds should have
access to a case worker to help them | 0:25:22 | 0:25:25 | |
comply with the procedures and
access services. Fourth, victims | 0:25:25 | 0:25:30 | |
need a roof over their heads. I ask
the Minister to consider introducing | 0:25:30 | 0:25:35 | |
some greater flexibility in the
moving on the victim from a safe | 0:25:35 | 0:25:39 | |
house. The safe house of course
should not be permanent long-term | 0:25:39 | 0:25:45 | |
accommodation but the current cliff
edge approach of losing the safe | 0:25:45 | 0:25:48 | |
house accommodation two weeks after
the conclusive grounds decision is | 0:25:48 | 0:25:52 | |
failing and not satisfactory. Mr
Deputy Speaker, Madam Deputy | 0:25:52 | 0:25:59 | |
Speaker, forgive me, human
trafficking is a scourge, it is | 0:25:59 | 0:26:03 | |
abhorrent and inexcusable and every
time I hear about an incident or | 0:26:03 | 0:26:07 | |
meet a victim, I think, what kind of
world are we living in and what can | 0:26:07 | 0:26:11 | |
we do to make things better? Every
victim and witness of a crime needs | 0:26:11 | 0:26:16 | |
to know they will be offered all
their help support they need and | 0:26:16 | 0:26:21 | |
deserve to move on in their lives
and bring perpetrators to justice. | 0:26:21 | 0:26:25 | |
We can do better. We must do better.
Thank you. The anti-slavery | 0:26:25 | 0:26:33 | |
commissioner stressed this week
using children to transport and sell | 0:26:33 | 0:26:37 | |
Class A drugs is a form of
modern-day slavery. He said the | 0:26:37 | 0:26:44 | |
police and other agencies were not
seeing it for what it is, the use of | 0:26:44 | 0:26:49 | |
children and young people as
commodities by criminal gangs. He | 0:26:49 | 0:26:51 | |
said that more and more lines were
being discovered each day but there | 0:26:51 | 0:26:57 | |
was often a lack of sympathy for the
victims. He was responding to the | 0:26:57 | 0:27:02 | |
HMIC report. The criminal
exploitation of children to sell | 0:27:02 | 0:27:09 | |
drugs is the next big grooming
scandal, it has many similarities to | 0:27:09 | 0:27:14 | |
grooming in the child sexual
exploitation cases in places like | 0:27:14 | 0:27:22 | |
Rochdale. The National Crime Agency
say 82% of police forces have | 0:27:22 | 0:27:26 | |
reported activity in their area. I
have been told by a well-informed | 0:27:26 | 0:27:31 | |
police source there could be up to
1000 county lines operating | 0:27:31 | 0:27:34 | |
throughout the country from major
cities where there are | 0:27:34 | 0:27:39 | |
well-established criminal gangs
including London, Liverpool and | 0:27:39 | 0:27:41 | |
Manchester. And although the
exploitation of children by | 0:27:41 | 0:27:44 | |
organised crime to carry and sell
drugs is not new, there is a huge | 0:27:44 | 0:27:48 | |
and growing problem of children
being groomed to supply Class A | 0:27:48 | 0:27:52 | |
drugs, crack cocaine and heroin,
around the country. This usually | 0:27:52 | 0:27:56 | |
involves going from an urban area
expanding their operations by | 0:27:56 | 0:28:01 | |
crossing one or more police force
boundaries to rural areas, setting | 0:28:01 | 0:28:05 | |
up a secure base and using one is to
conduct day-to-day dealing. A county | 0:28:05 | 0:28:10 | |
lines enterprise must always
involves the exploitation of | 0:28:10 | 0:28:15 | |
vulnerable children and adults. As
more are set up, more children are | 0:28:15 | 0:28:21 | |
being targeted and groomed to carry
on supply drugs. For the criminal | 0:28:21 | 0:28:25 | |
gangs, it is a very successful
business. New markets bring more | 0:28:25 | 0:28:29 | |
income and using children and young
people reduces the gang's risk of | 0:28:29 | 0:28:33 | |
detection. For the children and
young people, it often ends in drug | 0:28:33 | 0:28:37 | |
and alcohol addiction, violence, is
other sexual explication. They | 0:28:37 | 0:28:43 | |
become criminals and the groomers
and exploiters of other children. | 0:28:43 | 0:28:46 | |
The extent of it is very difficult
to map as data is collected by | 0:28:46 | 0:28:50 | |
various agencies and there was
little sharing of that data. This | 0:28:50 | 0:28:55 | |
week I was invited by Greater
Manchester Police to help launch an | 0:28:55 | 0:28:59 | |
excellent new campaign called
Tractor will raise awareness of how | 0:28:59 | 0:29:02 | |
young people can get drawn into
county lines. -- trapped. The police | 0:29:02 | 0:29:12 | |
found a young boy in Blackpool
Avenue this week who they said was | 0:29:12 | 0:29:17 | |
relieved to be locked up, his face
was green, as he had been so badly | 0:29:17 | 0:29:21 | |
beaten -- in Blackpool only this
week. Key to the approach is working | 0:29:21 | 0:29:33 | |
in schools, youth centres, housing
and drug services, to prevent young | 0:29:33 | 0:29:37 | |
people getting embedded or
furthering indebted into criminal | 0:29:37 | 0:29:40 | |
gangs, to provide them with safe
people to talk to. Some children are | 0:29:40 | 0:29:48 | |
vulnerable because of chaotic family
relationships, some are looked after | 0:29:48 | 0:29:52 | |
children, some may have older
siblings caught up in drugs, others | 0:29:52 | 0:29:56 | |
might have parents who are complicit
in the use of their child by | 0:29:56 | 0:30:00 | |
gangster helped feed their own drug
habit. Methods include offers of | 0:30:00 | 0:30:06 | |
cash and goods, coercion, young
people having to work back to pay | 0:30:06 | 0:30:09 | |
back a drug debt owed to a gang
member. I chair the all-party | 0:30:09 | 0:30:14 | |
Parliamentary group on runaway and
missing children. And adults. Which | 0:30:14 | 0:30:18 | |
is supported by the Children's
Society and missing people. We held | 0:30:18 | 0:30:22 | |
a Round Table in March on county
lines taking evidence from victims, | 0:30:22 | 0:30:28 | |
parents, experts and agencies. Can I
thank the honourable member for her | 0:30:28 | 0:30:32 | |
attendance at the round table? The
report we produced after the Round | 0:30:32 | 0:30:36 | |
Table made clear that children from
all backgrounds are at risk of being | 0:30:36 | 0:30:41 | |
drawn into county lines, the parents
who gave evidence to the Round Table | 0:30:41 | 0:30:44 | |
did not meet the profile of a
chaotic family, their sons had | 0:30:44 | 0:30:49 | |
become involved through friendships
with other young people who had | 0:30:49 | 0:30:52 | |
associations with gangs. Pressure on
young people is huge and at a time | 0:30:52 | 0:30:56 | |
of transition from childhood to
adolescents, they are particularly | 0:30:56 | 0:31:00 | |
vulnerable to the pressure from
peers. Young people can get drawn | 0:31:00 | 0:31:03 | |
into what initially looks like a
good offer in terms of cash and | 0:31:03 | 0:31:07 | |
lifestyle but end up being trapped
and coerced by very terrifying | 0:31:07 | 0:31:11 | |
people. Looked after children are
particular target for grooming by | 0:31:11 | 0:31:17 | |
criminal gangs, those placed miles
away from home areas | 0:31:17 | 0:31:30 | |
can be especially vulnerable, there
are additional difficulties in | 0:31:33 | 0:31:35 | |
keeping children safe when they are
placed far away. It is hard for a | 0:31:35 | 0:31:37 | |
social worker to give support from
hundreds of miles away. It is | 0:31:37 | 0:31:40 | |
concerning there has been a 78%
increase nationally in children | 0:31:40 | 0:31:42 | |
placed in children's poems out of
borough from March, 2012. Parents | 0:31:42 | 0:31:44 | |
whose children were exploited its
breast despair at the Round Table -- | 0:31:44 | 0:31:50 | |
expressed despair. My concern is the
response of the safeguarding system | 0:31:50 | 0:31:54 | |
is increasing the vulnerability of
young people. The parent who is not | 0:31:54 | 0:31:58 | |
supported will leave the child more
vulnerable. The placing of a child | 0:31:58 | 0:32:03 | |
in a children's home targeted by
criminal gangs increases their | 0:32:03 | 0:32:08 | |
vulnerability. Failing to
appropriately assess risk in missing | 0:32:08 | 0:32:13 | |
is percent will increase
vulnerability. | 0:32:13 | 0:32:18 | |
There needs to be a more joined up
response from the National Crime | 0:32:18 | 0:32:23 | |
Agency and police at a local level.
These crimes an aching millions from | 0:32:23 | 0:32:29 | |
the degradation of children,
responsible for endless beatings, | 0:32:29 | 0:32:32 | |
stabbing and murder. We also need to
disrupt the grooming of vulnerable | 0:32:32 | 0:32:36 | |
children at an early age, at the
same time as prosecuting gang | 0:32:36 | 0:32:41 | |
members. Preventing children getting
into gangs in turn prevents more | 0:32:41 | 0:32:45 | |
victims. We need to look at the
better use of child abduction | 0:32:45 | 0:32:48 | |
warning notices and the child
referral mechanism needs to be | 0:32:48 | 0:32:52 | |
better understood as it could be
used to identify children as victims | 0:32:52 | 0:32:56 | |
of exploit Asian and this in turn
makes it easier to prosecute their | 0:32:56 | 0:33:03 | |
exploiters under trafficking laws.
They are the ones hiding behind the | 0:33:03 | 0:33:08 | |
children and they also prevent
prosecution. The exploitation of | 0:33:08 | 0:33:14 | |
criminal gangs is increasing and it
is shocking the message that | 0:33:14 | 0:33:19 | |
organised crime is getting is
provided they use children and young | 0:33:19 | 0:33:22 | |
people, we are powerless to do
anything about it, so we need to | 0:33:22 | 0:33:25 | |
find better ways of working
together, and using better resources | 0:33:25 | 0:33:31 | |
and a better response to
safeguarding children. Children | 0:33:31 | 0:33:34 | |
should be our priority.
Last week the Church of England | 0:33:34 | 0:33:41 | |
introduced an initiative which is
aimed at tackling modern day | 0:33:41 | 0:33:44 | |
slavery. It draws on excellent work
pioneered by the Bishop of Derby. It | 0:33:44 | 0:33:51 | |
is used to detect incidences of
modern day slavery in their midst | 0:33:51 | 0:33:56 | |
and provide appropriate support for
victims. There are many tools to | 0:33:56 | 0:33:59 | |
help end slavery within the local
community, and the church which is | 0:33:59 | 0:34:04 | |
present in all communities has an
inherent responsibility to leave | 0:34:04 | 0:34:07 | |
these efforts. The Archbishop of
Canterbury said William Wilberforce | 0:34:07 | 0:34:12 | |
convinced his generation that
slavery was a sin. That is much | 0:34:12 | 0:34:16 | |
range but there is ignorance around
it. The charity takes its name from | 0:34:16 | 0:34:23 | |
a group of sisters who were founded
to help marginalised women but the | 0:34:23 | 0:34:28 | |
legacy today will be to address
modern day slavery. The campaign | 0:34:28 | 0:34:33 | |
slogan is: we see you.
The aim is to empower people like us | 0:34:33 | 0:34:38 | |
to spot the signs of modern forms of
slavery happening all around us in | 0:34:38 | 0:34:41 | |
our towns, cities and villages. They
could be right in the midst of | 0:34:41 | 0:34:47 | |
communities where we live. We do not
always know the signs and we do not | 0:34:47 | 0:34:51 | |
know what are the right questions to
ask. Modern slavery is a hidden | 0:34:51 | 0:34:56 | |
crime so we have to take seriously
the injunction to know who our | 0:34:56 | 0:35:00 | |
neighbour really is. Our neighbour
could be a homeless man forced into | 0:35:00 | 0:35:03 | |
work. It could be a girl kept into
domestic servitude. Victims may be | 0:35:03 | 0:35:08 | |
nearly invisible to us so we have to
develop sharper eyes in order to | 0:35:08 | 0:35:22 | |
detect their needs, hence, we see
you, the campaign. The initiative is | 0:35:24 | 0:35:26 | |
designed to help dieses help develop
strategies to protect their | 0:35:26 | 0:35:28 | |
communities by offering monitoring.
Crucially, it gives people contacts | 0:35:28 | 0:35:30 | |
to reach out to if they spot signs
of slavery and I worried that people | 0:35:30 | 0:35:33 | |
are trapped in it. Nationally, it
developed a network of practitioners | 0:35:33 | 0:35:40 | |
who can provide evidence -based data
to resource the church's national | 0:35:40 | 0:35:45 | |
engagement with statutory and
non-statutory bodies. The project | 0:35:45 | 0:35:49 | |
has taken best practice from Derby
and now there are ten other | 0:35:49 | 0:35:53 | |
participating dioceses, Bath and
Wells, Chester, Durham, Liverpool, | 0:35:53 | 0:35:58 | |
Portsmouth, Southwark and
Nottingham. A further 14 dioceses | 0:35:58 | 0:36:05 | |
are due to sign up later this year
and it is hoped the church's 42 | 0:36:05 | 0:36:10 | |
dieses and 12,000 parishes will all
become mobilised in the battle to | 0:36:10 | 0:36:15 | |
eradicate modern day slavery. Of
course, the landscape image is so | 0:36:15 | 0:36:19 | |
different so the approach and
training will need to be | 0:36:19 | 0:36:22 | |
contextualised, but there is no
doubt this approach can make a | 0:36:22 | 0:36:27 | |
difference. If we take in the
vanguard the Bishop of Derby and his | 0:36:27 | 0:36:30 | |
diocese which was right in the
forefront of this, and Bishop | 0:36:30 | 0:36:33 | |
Alistair was on the modern day
slavery Bill committee, along with | 0:36:33 | 0:36:38 | |
other members present, we can see
the key to this is developing a | 0:36:38 | 0:36:43 | |
strong working relationship with key
agencies, the police, the council | 0:36:43 | 0:36:47 | |
and other agencies who can reach out
and provide assistance to victims. | 0:36:47 | 0:36:52 | |
Within the church, the mothers union
has taken on a need for supplies for | 0:36:52 | 0:36:57 | |
victims, by fund-raising and
producing emergency packs for them. | 0:36:57 | 0:37:01 | |
There are many examples from this
initiative of each diocese taking | 0:37:01 | 0:37:04 | |
the opportunity to help and I
encourage every member present to | 0:37:04 | 0:37:13 | |
read the account. This is not to
diminish the good work carried | 0:37:13 | 0:37:20 | |
across the country by secular NGOs
and our community and I would like | 0:37:20 | 0:37:25 | |
to highlight the work of Soroptimist
International of Great Britain and | 0:37:25 | 0:37:30 | |
Ireland. It has undertaken surveys
online and face-to-face to | 0:37:30 | 0:37:37 | |
understand how much the public
actually knows and what their | 0:37:37 | 0:37:40 | |
perceptions are of slavery and human
trafficking. This survey is to help | 0:37:40 | 0:37:45 | |
the UK modern slavery training
delivery group to assess the level | 0:37:45 | 0:37:51 | |
of public knowledge, in order to
help combat it. As of last week, we | 0:37:51 | 0:37:55 | |
know over 3700 online surveys had
been completed and over 400 paper | 0:37:55 | 0:38:04 | |
surveys have been returned. When we
made a bid before the Backbench | 0:38:04 | 0:38:08 | |
Business Committee last week, one of
the issues I wanted to join in | 0:38:08 | 0:38:14 | |
raising was the issue of child
trafficking. I was shocked to read a | 0:38:14 | 0:38:20 | |
report in The Times which Baroness
Butler-Sloss said was very | 0:38:20 | 0:38:23 | |
disturbing, about scores of miners
who fall back into the hands of | 0:38:23 | 0:38:29 | |
traffickers. Nine the vicar -- many
children go missing every year. In | 0:38:29 | 0:38:44 | |
that report in the Times, Kevin
Hyland, the anti-slavery | 0:38:44 | 0:38:50 | |
commissioner has expressed his
concern that the frequency and speed | 0:38:50 | 0:38:54 | |
of which the mini is miners go
missing. -- Vietnamese miners. I do | 0:38:54 | 0:39:04 | |
particularly want to join with the
honourable member for Gedling and | 0:39:04 | 0:39:08 | |
others who have spoken to really
impress upon the Government to go | 0:39:08 | 0:39:11 | |
out of its way to tackle this
terrible abuse of the most | 0:39:11 | 0:39:18 | |
vulnerable of the vulnerable in our
society. I beg to move. | 0:39:18 | 0:39:25 | |
Kerry McCarthy. Madam Deputy
Speaker, it is a pleasure to see you | 0:39:25 | 0:39:28 | |
in the chair. I welcome the Modern
Slavery Act and imparticular section | 0:39:28 | 0:39:33 | |
54 on supply chains which was
something we had to fight quite hard | 0:39:33 | 0:39:37 | |
for. Despite the legislation as the
National Crime Agency said earlier | 0:39:37 | 0:39:43 | |
this year, modern slavery is
steadily increasing. There are many | 0:39:43 | 0:39:47 | |
industries in which modern slavery
goes undetected, everyday situations | 0:39:47 | 0:39:51 | |
right and our nose. 20 cases of
modern slavery have been | 0:39:51 | 0:39:55 | |
investigated in Bristol over the
last, including Eastern European | 0:39:55 | 0:39:59 | |
workers who were exploited by a
Bristol car wash and forced to work | 0:39:59 | 0:40:03 | |
long hours for low pay. One had
worked 18 months for no pay at all | 0:40:03 | 0:40:07 | |
and it is believed five others are
in the same situation. In July this | 0:40:07 | 0:40:11 | |
year, police arrested people
following a raid on a nail bar in | 0:40:11 | 0:40:18 | |
Southmead in Bristol, my honourable
friend's constituency. Unseen, a | 0:40:18 | 0:40:24 | |
Bristol-based charity who works to
eradicate modern day slavery and | 0:40:24 | 0:40:28 | |
runs the modern day slavery helpline
is currently running a net nail it | 0:40:28 | 0:40:33 | |
campaign which aims to stop slavery
in nail bars. I am happy to support | 0:40:33 | 0:40:39 | |
that campaign, hence my bright pink
nails today. And I think Avon and | 0:40:39 | 0:40:44 | |
Somerset police who support it and
ended up on the front page of the | 0:40:44 | 0:40:49 | |
Sun newspaper and were denounced by
the honourable member for Monmouth, | 0:40:49 | 0:40:52 | |
I believe they were right to do that
as well. Over the past 12 months in | 0:40:52 | 0:40:57 | |
the wider Avon and Somerset area,
police adults with 60 investigations | 0:40:57 | 0:41:02 | |
and have seen a significant increase
in modern slavery related | 0:41:02 | 0:41:06 | |
intelligence and also calls to the
helpline went up following that | 0:41:06 | 0:41:09 | |
awareness campaign. But the police
do need to be properly resourced and | 0:41:09 | 0:41:14 | |
as my local police in China Leave --
Police and Crime Commissioner said | 0:41:14 | 0:41:20 | |
they do not have the resources to
carry out basic policing functions | 0:41:20 | 0:41:24 | |
let alone mount investigations. Both
the gang masters licensing authority | 0:41:24 | 0:41:30 | |
and HMIC have received cuts to deal
with their capacity in slavery | 0:41:30 | 0:41:34 | |
offences. A firm could inspect a
visit only once every 250 years. | 0:41:34 | 0:41:44 | |
Many of the call about nail bars
fight the physical or psychological | 0:41:44 | 0:41:50 | |
state of workers, inappropriate
sleeping accommodation, poor working | 0:41:50 | 0:41:54 | |
conditions, lack of spoken English,
cheap prices, cash only transactions | 0:41:54 | 0:42:00 | |
and concerns of abuse and violence.
They need to -- they seem to be | 0:42:00 | 0:42:05 | |
intimidated by their bosses.
Customers need to be aware of these | 0:42:05 | 0:42:09 | |
issues. The Southmead raid was
prompted by a tip-off from a member | 0:42:09 | 0:42:14 | |
of the public who raised concerns
about a woman's welfare. Without | 0:42:14 | 0:42:20 | |
that into ventilation --
intervention it could have taken | 0:42:20 | 0:42:22 | |
longer to take the woman to a place
of safety. People do need to know | 0:42:22 | 0:42:27 | |
the signs of modern slavery in their
community. Victims may appear | 0:42:27 | 0:42:32 | |
withdrawn. They may have few
possessions. They may have few | 0:42:32 | 0:42:37 | |
clothes, all live and work at the
same address, may be dropped off and | 0:42:37 | 0:42:40 | |
collected for work on a regular
basis, either very early or very | 0:42:40 | 0:42:45 | |
late at night. People do need to be
vigilant, as I have said. Finally, I | 0:42:45 | 0:42:50 | |
want to say a bit about slavery in
the food processing, fishing and | 0:42:50 | 0:42:57 | |
agricultural sectors which remain a
huge issue. Unite the union's | 0:42:57 | 0:43:01 | |
excellent from plough to plate
report, said employers are some of | 0:43:01 | 0:43:04 | |
the worst exploiters of workers,
with countless instances of abuse, | 0:43:04 | 0:43:10 | |
meeting the legal definitions of
slavery and enforced labour. Lusty | 0:43:10 | 0:43:15 | |
group of Lithuanian chicken farmers
won their case against two Kent | 0:43:15 | 0:43:19 | |
-based gang masters who had forced
them to work under threat of | 0:43:19 | 0:43:23 | |
violence and kept them in squalid
living conditions. In another 2016 | 0:43:23 | 0:43:29 | |
case, two Lithuanian men had been
trafficked and worked in a meat | 0:43:29 | 0:43:34 | |
processing plant. They had their pay
withheld and were subjected to | 0:43:34 | 0:43:38 | |
violence but the traffickers were
only sentenced to 3.5 years in jail. | 0:43:38 | 0:43:43 | |
The environment of Justice
foundation has done as Bob will work | 0:43:43 | 0:43:46 | |
over the last five years, exposing
modern slavery in the Thailand | 0:43:46 | 0:43:52 | |
seafood sector, under covering,
there have been casing people kept | 0:43:52 | 0:43:59 | |
at the four years, being moved from
ship to ship and never reaching | 0:43:59 | 0:44:05 | |
shore to reach sanctuary. Despite
reforms, forced labour continues to | 0:44:05 | 0:44:13 | |
be widespread, including the
shocking statistic that 59% of Thai | 0:44:13 | 0:44:17 | |
fishing workers had witnessed the
murder of a fellow worker. Many more | 0:44:17 | 0:44:22 | |
had had wages and sleep been
withheld from them. Millions of | 0:44:22 | 0:44:32 | |
pounds worth of seafood products
imported from Thailand every year. | 0:44:32 | 0:44:37 | |
Another example from just this week,
is two of Italy's biggest tomato | 0:44:37 | 0:44:44 | |
suppliers for UK supermarkets have
been indicated in labour abuses with | 0:44:44 | 0:44:51 | |
workers being required to work 12
hours a day, seven days a week with | 0:44:51 | 0:44:55 | |
minimal pay and no access to medical
care. Those are a few examples of | 0:44:55 | 0:45:00 | |
something which is incredibly
widespread. In 2015 the Economist | 0:45:00 | 0:45:10 | |
described the transparency of
slavery requirement of a light | 0:45:10 | 0:45:12 | |
touch. I would say the Government
needs to go further. A full | 0:45:12 | 0:45:21 | |
complement -- statement should be
legally binding. Specifically in | 0:45:21 | 0:45:30 | |
relation to the seafood sector and
the fishing industry, the | 0:45:30 | 0:45:36 | |
environmental Justice foundation is
calling for transnational approaches | 0:45:36 | 0:45:40 | |
for all countries to fully ratify
and implement the convection an work | 0:45:40 | 0:45:46 | |
and fishing, for all countries to
amend legislation to prosecute | 0:45:46 | 0:45:51 | |
national citizens engaged in human
trafficking, on vessels registered | 0:45:51 | 0:45:54 | |
to another country, and for
retailers and to establish | 0:45:54 | 0:46:02 | |
effectively -- effective
transparency, including committing | 0:46:02 | 0:46:05 | |
to independent third-party
unannounced auditing of supply | 0:46:05 | 0:46:07 | |
chains. Madam Deputy Speaker, cheap
products and services often come at | 0:46:07 | 0:46:11 | |
an unseen cost and we must ask
ourselves, just how come prices are | 0:46:11 | 0:46:16 | |
so low. If it seems too good to be
true, it probably is. Such services | 0:46:16 | 0:46:22 | |
should never be used. We all need to
play a role in suffocating slavery | 0:46:22 | 0:46:27 | |
at source by exercising vigilance. | 0:46:27 | 0:46:33 | |
It is a pleasure to follow the
honourable member, she made some | 0:46:33 | 0:46:36 | |
excellent points. I want to pay
tribute to my right honourable | 0:46:36 | 0:46:41 | |
friend, the Prime Minister, for her
dedication when Home Secretary to | 0:46:41 | 0:46:45 | |
start to read our nation of this
evil practice of modern slavery and | 0:46:45 | 0:46:49 | |
leading the way globally -- read our
nation. The Modern Slavery Act 2015 | 0:46:49 | 0:46:57 | |
is a world leading legislation and
it is of paramount importance that | 0:46:57 | 0:47:03 | |
other countries follow our lead. The
member has already expressed the | 0:47:03 | 0:47:09 | |
important role the Bishop of Derby
played in driving the legislation to | 0:47:09 | 0:47:14 | |
where we are today. With my
constituency being on the doorstep | 0:47:14 | 0:47:20 | |
of Derby, listening to the bishops
speak on the subject really inspired | 0:47:20 | 0:47:24 | |
me to take more than just a passing
interest in this, it is probably | 0:47:24 | 0:47:28 | |
because of the Bishop I am here
today. The Bishop has been at the | 0:47:28 | 0:47:33 | |
forefront of the fight against
modern slavery with the | 0:47:33 | 0:47:36 | |
establishment of the Derby and
publisher modern slavery | 0:47:36 | 0:47:39 | |
partnership, -- the Derby and
Derbyshire modern slavery | 0:47:39 | 0:47:46 | |
partnership. This collaboration of
organisations across different | 0:47:46 | 0:47:51 | |
sectors is drawn from Derby city and
Derby County. Derbyshire as a whole. | 0:47:51 | 0:47:56 | |
This aims to raise awareness in the
understanding of what trafficking | 0:47:56 | 0:48:01 | |
is, how traffickers operate and an
understanding of the experiences of | 0:48:01 | 0:48:05 | |
victims. It is seen as a model of
best practice across the country. In | 0:48:05 | 0:48:11 | |
no way -- nowhere is immune from the
threat of modern slavery, it does | 0:48:11 | 0:48:15 | |
not just happen in big cities. It is
as likely to happen in the local car | 0:48:15 | 0:48:19 | |
wash, nail bar, in our towns, as
well as in the major cities we | 0:48:19 | 0:48:26 | |
automatically think of. To give this
important issue some context, | 0:48:26 | 0:48:31 | |
research carried out by the Home
Office in 2014 estimated that in | 0:48:31 | 0:48:37 | |
2013 the number of potential victims
of modern slavery in the UK was | 0:48:37 | 0:48:42 | |
between 10,000 up to 13,000.
Personally, I believe this is an | 0:48:42 | 0:48:47 | |
underestimate of the problem as more
and more people become aware of this | 0:48:47 | 0:48:50 | |
horrendous practice. Moore does need
to be done to educate employers and | 0:48:50 | 0:48:56 | |
the staff as to how to identify
people who may be modern slaves. A | 0:48:56 | 0:49:01 | |
recent case in Derbyshire
highlighted this. I know more | 0:49:01 | 0:49:06 | |
workers being done to educate both
employers and employees of what to | 0:49:06 | 0:49:10 | |
look for, how identify these people.
However, this number not only | 0:49:10 | 0:49:17 | |
represents victims trafficked into
the UK but also British adults and | 0:49:17 | 0:49:22 | |
children too. The National Crime
Agency estimates that in 2013 the UK | 0:49:22 | 0:49:26 | |
was the third most common country of
origin of identified victims. It is | 0:49:26 | 0:49:30 | |
happening on our doorsteps. But in
today's debate, I want to focus on | 0:49:30 | 0:49:36 | |
the supply chain aspect of the
legislation, the transparency in the | 0:49:36 | 0:49:40 | |
supply chains cause. This aspect of
the legislation applies to | 0:49:40 | 0:49:48 | |
commercial organisations which
operate in the UK and have an annual | 0:49:48 | 0:49:50 | |
turnover of £36 million. Such
businesses have to produce a slavery | 0:49:50 | 0:49:57 | |
and human trafficking statement each
year. The statement which is placed | 0:49:57 | 0:50:00 | |
on the company's website should set
out the steps taken to address and | 0:50:00 | 0:50:07 | |
prevent modern slavery in their
operations and supply chains. As my | 0:50:07 | 0:50:10 | |
interest in the subject has
developed, I have read numerous | 0:50:10 | 0:50:14 | |
statements from some of the largest
retailers and other businesses and I | 0:50:14 | 0:50:19 | |
am saddened when I read the
statements and see that they are | 0:50:19 | 0:50:27 | |
only paying lip service to the
legislation and do not appreciate | 0:50:27 | 0:50:30 | |
the importance of getting the supply
chain slavery free. In the last | 0:50:30 | 0:50:35 | |
Parliament, I tried to bring a
Private Members' Bill to displace to | 0:50:35 | 0:50:39 | |
strengthen the current legislation.
The bill was first introduced in the | 0:50:39 | 0:50:43 | |
House of Lords in May, 2016, by a
crossbench peer peer, aimed to amend | 0:50:43 | 0:50:53 | |
the Modern Slavery Act 2015 to
require organisations and public | 0:50:53 | 0:50:57 | |
bodies to include a statement on
slavery and human trafficking in | 0:50:57 | 0:51:01 | |
their annual report, not just on the
website. We did come across one | 0:51:01 | 0:51:07 | |
problem as the annual report and
accounts are legal entities, the | 0:51:07 | 0:51:12 | |
inclusion of the slavery statement
would have caused legal headaches, | 0:51:12 | 0:51:15 | |
but perhaps we need to address that
again. At the time of the | 0:51:15 | 0:51:19 | |
introduction of the Private Members'
Bill, the Government recognise the | 0:51:19 | 0:51:23 | |
2015 legislation was only the first
step towards a solution to the | 0:51:23 | 0:51:26 | |
problem. Currently, the legislation
only applies to the private sector, | 0:51:26 | 0:51:32 | |
not the public sector. To include
the public sector is still of | 0:51:32 | 0:51:36 | |
paramount importance. The other part
of the bill that we are looking to | 0:51:36 | 0:51:40 | |
introduce was to extend the
requirements of the private sector | 0:51:40 | 0:51:44 | |
to the public sector too. I find it
quite disturbing that the public | 0:51:44 | 0:51:50 | |
sector which procures vast amount of
goods and services is not included | 0:51:50 | 0:51:55 | |
in the legislation and I feel this
is a major flaw which currently | 0:51:55 | 0:51:59 | |
needs to be corrected. I was pleased
the Home Office at the time did have | 0:51:59 | 0:52:03 | |
meetings with the minister in her
place today so we have continuity | 0:52:03 | 0:52:07 | |
which is fantastic, a Home Office
agreed with the sentiment and the | 0:52:07 | 0:52:12 | |
aspirations of the bill and they
were developing policies in line | 0:52:12 | 0:52:15 | |
with what was laid out in the bill,
so I am looking forward to having | 0:52:15 | 0:52:19 | |
some updates from the minister when
she responds at the end of the | 0:52:19 | 0:52:22 | |
debate as to the progress through
the Private Members' Bill. Madam | 0:52:22 | 0:52:29 | |
Deputy Speaker, I am very proud we
lead the fight against modern | 0:52:29 | 0:52:35 | |
slavery in this country and this
battle continues to be a priority | 0:52:35 | 0:52:38 | |
for our government. Thank you. Thank
you. I rise to speak in this debate | 0:52:38 | 0:52:47 | |
and I thank those that brought it to
the Backbench Business Committee, I | 0:52:47 | 0:52:53 | |
am both of those people! I was on
both sides. I just realised as I was | 0:52:53 | 0:52:59 | |
saying it I was thanking myself
twice! I came to this House, prior | 0:52:59 | 0:53:07 | |
to being here, I ran one of the
services that operate safe houses | 0:53:07 | 0:53:12 | |
and community-based support for
victims of modern slavery, we | 0:53:12 | 0:53:17 | |
largely focused our safe houses on
women and children. I think that | 0:53:17 | 0:53:20 | |
what I found whilst working there, I
want to tell a few of the stories of | 0:53:20 | 0:53:27 | |
the people I met. But the vast
majority of women now living in the | 0:53:27 | 0:53:34 | |
safe accommodation through the
national referral mechanism were | 0:53:34 | 0:53:37 | |
there because they had been
trafficked into this country for | 0:53:37 | 0:53:39 | |
sexual slavery. It is not sex work,
these people were slaves. I worked | 0:53:39 | 0:53:49 | |
with women who were forced to have
sex with over 50 men in a day, who | 0:53:49 | 0:53:57 | |
fed scraps from the table of the
honest Johns, my honourable friend | 0:53:57 | 0:54:06 | |
from Bristol has talked about our
need for vigilance. The idea that in | 0:54:06 | 0:54:09 | |
a modern system of sex work that we
have the idea of the honest John | 0:54:09 | 0:54:16 | |
saying, do you mind if I ask you
where you have come from? Are you | 0:54:16 | 0:54:20 | |
hear out of choice? It is a total
fallacy. It is something that | 0:54:20 | 0:54:25 | |
successive governments have failed
to tackle and that we really need to | 0:54:25 | 0:54:29 | |
be tackling now because the amount
of women prostituted from different | 0:54:29 | 0:54:36 | |
countries and exploited and traffic
around the country who are from the | 0:54:36 | 0:54:40 | |
UK originally is absolutely
phenomenal. There are hundreds and | 0:54:40 | 0:54:47 | |
hundreds and hundreds of women who
have gone through just the service | 0:54:47 | 0:54:50 | |
are used to work for and if we do
not tackle this head on, then we are | 0:54:50 | 0:54:55 | |
letting down the victims of slavery.
Some people may be want to call it | 0:54:55 | 0:55:00 | |
something more civilised like sex
work. I want to also talk about some | 0:55:00 | 0:55:04 | |
of the problems I found while
working in that service and I worked | 0:55:04 | 0:55:09 | |
very closely with the Home Office
and before that, the Ministry of | 0:55:09 | 0:55:13 | |
Justice, because they were
originally the department that held | 0:55:13 | 0:55:15 | |
it. Everybody wanted success. There
are still some major and glaring | 0:55:15 | 0:55:23 | |
holes in how we treat the victim and
how the victim goes on the journey. | 0:55:23 | 0:55:27 | |
One of the things I wonder if the
Minister could feedback on is the | 0:55:27 | 0:55:31 | |
difference between those who are
housed in safe houses and those | 0:55:31 | 0:55:37 | |
housed in generic accommodation
through the asylum system in this | 0:55:37 | 0:55:39 | |
country. Because the difference,
there is a two tier system for | 0:55:39 | 0:55:44 | |
slaves in this country, essentially,
were those that live in safe houses | 0:55:44 | 0:55:47 | |
are getting amazing... I would say
that! I ran up the curtains, made | 0:55:47 | 0:55:55 | |
them lovely, brilliant. There is a
two tier system, I remember in one | 0:55:55 | 0:55:59 | |
instance a woman, she did not
qualify to get into the safe us | 0:55:59 | 0:56:03 | |
because of immigration status, I
went to visit her in one of the | 0:56:03 | 0:56:07 | |
asylum accommodations, this woman
was pregnant, she was nearly nine | 0:56:07 | 0:56:12 | |
months pregnant, she looked
considerably thinner than even I was | 0:56:12 | 0:56:16 | |
at the time and she was sleeping on
the floor and was being given one | 0:56:16 | 0:56:23 | |
meal a day. I was there to offer her
some community support and give her | 0:56:23 | 0:56:27 | |
some money and she wanted to move
accommodation from where she was and | 0:56:27 | 0:56:31 | |
she was going to be moved that data
Nottingham through the system and I | 0:56:31 | 0:56:36 | |
said, normally I would kick off
about this because you are in the | 0:56:36 | 0:56:40 | |
very final stages of your pregnancy,
you need to stay with the continuity | 0:56:40 | 0:56:44 | |
of care, and she cried and begged me
to not stop her being moved. As a | 0:56:44 | 0:56:50 | |
practitioner who has a duty of care
to a pregnant woman, I left myself | 0:56:50 | 0:56:59 | |
in a terrible dilemma and that is
something that has to be tackled. | 0:56:59 | 0:57:01 | |
The other thing which has been
raised by my right and Bob Friend, | 0:57:01 | 0:57:06 | |
the chair of the all-party
Parliamentary group, the issue | 0:57:06 | 0:57:10 | |
around what happens after the 45 day
reflection period -- my right | 0:57:10 | 0:57:14 | |
honourable friend. I cannot remember
anyone coming in and are only being | 0:57:14 | 0:57:18 | |
45 days is the honest truth. The way
the system works as you apply to | 0:57:18 | 0:57:23 | |
have more days and you always get
it, to be fair. The system is not | 0:57:23 | 0:57:28 | |
mean in that sense, but nobody ever
only needs 45 days. Talking about | 0:57:28 | 0:57:34 | |
deeply traumatised people, people
trying to take their organs, | 0:57:34 | 0:57:37 | |
enslaving them, having sex with them
50 times a day, 45 days is never | 0:57:37 | 0:57:42 | |
going to be enough. But what happens
to those people afterwards is a | 0:57:42 | 0:57:48 | |
massive, massive concern. They are
lost from services and services like | 0:57:48 | 0:57:52 | |
mine which was black countrywomen's
paid, we would try and do everything | 0:57:52 | 0:57:56 | |
we could to keep in touch on an
informal basis with people. However, | 0:57:56 | 0:58:04 | |
organisations like black country
women's aid do not have the | 0:58:04 | 0:58:09 | |
resources, they are doing amazing
and innovative things, I saw them | 0:58:09 | 0:58:12 | |
last week talking about trying to
understand the links between | 0:58:12 | 0:58:16 | |
substance misuse and human
trafficking, really innovative | 0:58:16 | 0:58:20 | |
stuff, but they have 178 people in
service today on one day, they do | 0:58:20 | 0:58:25 | |
not have the resources as the
voluntary sector to be the system | 0:58:25 | 0:58:30 | |
that follows those people
afterwards. It is an organisation | 0:58:30 | 0:58:33 | |
dealing with 8000 people per year
across different services. The | 0:58:33 | 0:58:38 | |
system needs to... There needs to be
a system put in place by the | 0:58:38 | 0:58:42 | |
Government to ensure the drop-off
does not happen. For those who are | 0:58:42 | 0:58:46 | |
Patrick Head, and I think many
people would be surprised, | 0:58:46 | 0:58:49 | |
especially those of us who deal with
immigration cases, the number who | 0:58:49 | 0:58:55 | |
want to be repacked rated. That is
maybe one issue about not being up | 0:58:55 | 0:58:59 | |
to find those people and hoping they
are all right, but those who are | 0:58:59 | 0:59:02 | |
still in the UK, and how they are
being trafficked around, it has got | 0:59:02 | 0:59:06 | |
to be tackled. And the long-term
recovery. The issue of the criminal | 0:59:06 | 0:59:14 | |
compensation must be bottomed out. A
man who lived in slavery for 13 | 0:59:14 | 0:59:19 | |
years, his aggressors were sent to
prison for two and a half years. | 0:59:19 | 0:59:23 | |
Currently not being able to access
compensation, that is a disgrace. He | 0:59:23 | 0:59:29 | |
also has no National Insurance
contributions. We have to look after | 0:59:29 | 0:59:33 | |
these people afterwards and make the
system that works for all of them. | 0:59:33 | 0:59:38 | |
Thank you very much. It is a
pleasure to follow the honourable | 0:59:38 | 0:59:43 | |
lady in this passionate debate. Some
of those very difficult personal | 0:59:43 | 0:59:53 | |
experiences really do hit home. I
would like to thank the right | 0:59:53 | 0:59:57 | |
honourable member for security in
this important debate and his | 0:59:57 | 1:00:02 | |
passionate opening, tackling modern
slavery is so important. I thank him | 1:00:02 | 1:00:06 | |
for his work he has done. And all
members on all sides of this House | 1:00:06 | 1:00:12 | |
and the organisations and
individuals who do so much. I know | 1:00:12 | 1:00:17 | |
the Minister shares very strong
concerns about exploitation, the | 1:00:17 | 1:00:22 | |
safety of women and girls, and to
make sure victims are identified and | 1:00:22 | 1:00:26 | |
looked after and working with
partners such as the NHS. As we have | 1:00:26 | 1:00:32 | |
heard, our Prime Minister in her
previous role and indeed in her | 1:00:32 | 1:00:36 | |
current role was absolutely leading
the example of how internationally | 1:00:36 | 1:00:40 | |
we will need to step up and stamp
out slavery in all forms. As the | 1:00:40 | 1:00:45 | |
chair of the all-party women in
Parliament group it is really | 1:00:45 | 1:00:48 | |
important we use the fact we have
women in Parliament, all sides and | 1:00:48 | 1:00:54 | |
benches, with more women than ever,
able to stand up and make these | 1:00:54 | 1:00:58 | |
positions heard. We have heard that
from all sides of the House. We | 1:00:58 | 1:01:03 | |
really need to take... Of course.
Thank you. A few months ago, we had | 1:01:03 | 1:01:09 | |
police raids in North Wales. There
were people who were being kept | 1:01:09 | 1:01:15 | |
effectively as slaves. The actual
response of a lot of people was, we | 1:01:15 | 1:01:19 | |
never realised this sort of thing
went on here. There is this idea | 1:01:19 | 1:01:22 | |
that it is only in perhaps London or
big cities, it is through the | 1:01:22 | 1:01:27 | |
country. | 1:01:27 | 1:01:32 | |
I absolutely agree with the
honourable gentleman. In fact, I | 1:01:32 | 1:01:35 | |
found that in my own constituency. I
did not think it affected Hampshire, | 1:01:35 | 1:01:41 | |
and it does. I agree we need to be
vigilant in this. We need to focus | 1:01:41 | 1:01:46 | |
on the drug trafficking, the
criminal exploitation we have heard | 1:01:46 | 1:01:50 | |
about in the agricultural sector,
the sexual exploitation of | 1:01:50 | 1:01:55 | |
vulnerable people and in my
particular area I found it was | 1:01:55 | 1:01:58 | |
people with learning difficulties as
well who were being exploited. As we | 1:01:58 | 1:02:02 | |
have heard, the 2015 slavery act has
been a very welcome and we heard | 1:02:02 | 1:02:11 | |
from my right honourable friend the
member for Maidstone and the wheeled | 1:02:11 | 1:02:15 | |
about some excellent points that she
raised about moving on this | 1:02:15 | 1:02:20 | |
ground-breaking act and I think they
were very hard to disagree with. I | 1:02:20 | 1:02:25 | |
think the act made a strong signal
for criminals about the vile trade | 1:02:25 | 1:02:30 | |
which is going on, but I think like
any act, there is a chance to move | 1:02:30 | 1:02:36 | |
this forward. Not only is it making
a difference locally, it is at home | 1:02:36 | 1:02:41 | |
and abroad. I will move on to this
other area as well about what we are | 1:02:41 | 1:02:47 | |
doing abroad and this is really
important about the work we are | 1:02:47 | 1:02:52 | |
doing through our visit finances, it
is 0.7% of GDP -- DFI D. We are | 1:02:52 | 1:03:01 | |
putting lots and lots of money into
this work around the world and | 1:03:01 | 1:03:07 | |
indeed locally, but I think we need
to focus, as we have heard from | 1:03:07 | 1:03:13 | |
around the Chamber on outcomes. It
is important that those affected by | 1:03:13 | 1:03:18 | |
modern slavery, so it is about 150
million we are spending tackling it | 1:03:18 | 1:03:22 | |
alone, with the 20 million global
investment fund, that we actually | 1:03:22 | 1:03:26 | |
look at the outcomes instead of just
talking about change. We have of | 1:03:26 | 1:03:31 | |
course seen the Prime Minister
working with the UN on this. We know | 1:03:31 | 1:03:37 | |
there were events locally in the
Speaker 's house on this as well. We | 1:03:37 | 1:03:39 | |
all know what we need to be done. In
Eastleigh, churches have come to me | 1:03:39 | 1:03:48 | |
raising their concerns. I certainly
think that they are very clued in | 1:03:48 | 1:03:53 | |
both locally and internationally,
about the concerns. One particular | 1:03:53 | 1:03:59 | |
consistency and Jacques Rogge
constituency survey was meeting a | 1:03:59 | 1:04:08 | |
mother and her teenage girl and
explaining what she thought was a | 1:04:08 | 1:04:15 | |
positive relationship was in fact
based on exploitation. I think | 1:04:15 | 1:04:21 | |
sometimes we think about large
exploitative gangs but sometimes it | 1:04:21 | 1:04:23 | |
can be down to one or two people
with a handful of young girls who | 1:04:23 | 1:04:27 | |
are learning this as a positive
relationship and frankly, it is not. | 1:04:27 | 1:04:33 | |
Another area of concern I have found
in my constituency is grown-up | 1:04:33 | 1:04:38 | |
children at exploiting their parents
or grandparents for drug money. In | 1:04:38 | 1:04:43 | |
effect, making them continue to go
to work to fund their choices, to | 1:04:43 | 1:04:48 | |
support those who are maybe addicted
to drugs, who are basically lodging | 1:04:48 | 1:04:54 | |
of the family. They are exploiting
their own family, making them carry | 1:04:54 | 1:04:57 | |
on going to work when they don't
need to, to fund a lifestyle choice. | 1:04:57 | 1:05:02 | |
When we do look at this act we
perhaps need to look more broadly. | 1:05:02 | 1:05:07 | |
But colleagues across this House, I
think there is more that can be done | 1:05:07 | 1:05:11 | |
and it has to be recognised that the
Government has taken some giant | 1:05:11 | 1:05:15 | |
leaps forward, particularly on the
human aspect and the pain and | 1:05:15 | 1:05:19 | |
suffering that we see, but business
absolutely has a role to play and | 1:05:19 | 1:05:24 | |
communities, seeking this out and
not letting people hide from it. In | 1:05:24 | 1:05:29 | |
ensuring transparency, we heard it
today, on businesses and supply | 1:05:29 | 1:05:34 | |
chains, the fashion industry in
particular. If we look at the | 1:05:34 | 1:05:38 | |
garments we are wearing, how would
we know where they were made and how | 1:05:38 | 1:05:41 | |
have they come to be and would we be
confident about that? I recently | 1:05:41 | 1:05:45 | |
went out with Hampshire Constabulary
Marine unit, as one of their | 1:05:45 | 1:05:52 | |
operations. My constituency in
Eastleigh is on the Hamble River. We | 1:05:52 | 1:05:56 | |
go on to Southampton water and
across the Solent. I would like to | 1:05:56 | 1:06:00 | |
say thank you so much to all the
police who are involved in the | 1:06:00 | 1:06:04 | |
operations they do. Absolutely, out
on those waters, making sure those | 1:06:04 | 1:06:10 | |
operations are doing the right
things in terms of slavery, because | 1:06:10 | 1:06:14 | |
people are coming across and victims
are being trafficked across and | 1:06:14 | 1:06:18 | |
without those members of the Marine
unit, we simply would not find out | 1:06:18 | 1:06:22 | |
what is going on, and they shared
with me most recently some real | 1:06:22 | 1:06:28 | |
concerns about what needs to be done
to help them make changes for those | 1:06:28 | 1:06:34 | |
people who find themselves in boats
being sent across the water. I look | 1:06:34 | 1:06:41 | |
forward to welcoming the comments
from the Minister and the | 1:06:41 | 1:06:44 | |
opportunity this House house to take
this act forward and indeed, | 1:06:44 | 1:06:48 | |
changing the lives of so many
people, just by opening our eyes. | 1:06:48 | 1:06:55 | |
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can
I begin by congratulating the | 1:06:55 | 1:07:01 | |
honourable member for Eastleigh. The
good thing about this debate is the | 1:07:01 | 1:07:03 | |
passion that is being shown on all
sides of the House. And probably for | 1:07:03 | 1:07:07 | |
the first and only time I want to
place on record my own recognition | 1:07:07 | 1:07:12 | |
of the value of the Prime Minister's
role when she was Home Secretary in | 1:07:12 | 1:07:17 | |
bringing forward this legislation.
Partly actually because it showed | 1:07:17 | 1:07:23 | |
leadership on an issue where
leadership is absolutely | 1:07:23 | 1:07:26 | |
fundamental, whether at national or
local level. It really does make a | 1:07:26 | 1:07:29 | |
difference. Perhaps I should begin
almost on the same track as my | 1:07:29 | 1:07:37 | |
friend for Birmingham Yardley. One I
was Police and Crime Commissioner in | 1:07:37 | 1:07:42 | |
Greater Manchester, a woman, when a
brothel was raided, she was asked | 1:07:42 | 1:07:45 | |
whether she was trafficked. She
denied vehemently that under any | 1:07:45 | 1:07:51 | |
circumstances she was trafficked,
until she was taken to room on her | 1:07:51 | 1:07:54 | |
own when she said, look, I have been
trafficked. I need you to drag me | 1:07:54 | 1:08:00 | |
out of here in handcuffs, with me
fighting and kicking and screaming, | 1:08:00 | 1:08:03 | |
because I need to demonstrate to my
traffickers that I am not a willing | 1:08:03 | 1:08:10 | |
accomplice. This woman was no sex
worker. She was a sex slave. In that | 1:08:10 | 1:08:17 | |
particular case, the police were
able to work with her to bring about | 1:08:17 | 1:08:22 | |
a different ambition. If I go back a
few years, my honourable friend for | 1:08:22 | 1:08:27 | |
Gedling said going back to his time
as police Minister, I don't think | 1:08:27 | 1:08:31 | |
any of us were talking enough about
slavery in that time. Even when I | 1:08:31 | 1:08:36 | |
first begin to have conversations
about the then Chief Constable and | 1:08:36 | 1:08:40 | |
the now Chief Constable, we did not
I think have in Greater Manchester a | 1:08:40 | 1:08:46 | |
proper understanding of what slavery
was all about. I'm glad to say the | 1:08:46 | 1:08:50 | |
HMIC report, which was critical of
policing, did say there were some | 1:08:50 | 1:08:55 | |
bright spots and Greater Manchester
was one of those bright spots. I | 1:08:55 | 1:09:00 | |
have pride, not in myself but among
the people who have made it work. | 1:09:00 | 1:09:03 | |
The has-been leadership from the
present Chief Constable. The Chief | 1:09:03 | 1:09:11 | |
Superintendent who has direct line
responsibility, and I want to praise | 1:09:11 | 1:09:16 | |
Detective Sergeant Debra Hurst and
her team, because this is a | 1:09:16 | 1:09:20 | |
dedicated small team of officers,
only four or five of them, who have | 1:09:20 | 1:09:24 | |
been committed to this role. Because
they have taken the time and they | 1:09:24 | 1:09:27 | |
care to understand what this is all
about, they have been able, if you | 1:09:27 | 1:09:32 | |
like, to affect the whole of Greater
Manchester Police and beyond with an | 1:09:32 | 1:09:37 | |
ambition to make a difference. GMP
has trained 120 victim liaison | 1:09:37 | 1:09:42 | |
officers. Dealing with people who
have been through the trauma of | 1:09:42 | 1:09:48 | |
enslavement, by working with them,
really is of fundamental importance. | 1:09:48 | 1:09:54 | |
There are many languages in Greater
Manchester. Slaves themselves, those | 1:09:54 | 1:09:58 | |
who are enslaved come from many
language backgrounds. The police | 1:09:58 | 1:10:03 | |
very often are facing cultural
differences. Even some very simple | 1:10:03 | 1:10:07 | |
issues that women from prostitution,
for example, face. They need things | 1:10:07 | 1:10:13 | |
like toiletries and clean underwear.
Those kind of furry basic needs. The | 1:10:13 | 1:10:17 | |
fact that we now have trained victim
liaison officers who can recognise | 1:10:17 | 1:10:21 | |
the need to go through the journey
with people from enslavement is | 1:10:21 | 1:10:26 | |
really an important issue. I think a
number of members on all sides have | 1:10:26 | 1:10:31 | |
talked about the need for a wider
partnership, and there is no doubt | 1:10:31 | 1:10:36 | |
building that kind of partnership
has a number of impacts. One is | 1:10:36 | 1:10:43 | |
immigration, the police and border
force are all absolutely fundamental | 1:10:43 | 1:10:49 | |
partners in this in making a system
of protective service work and that | 1:10:49 | 1:10:55 | |
does make a real difference.
Building that partnership is all | 1:10:55 | 1:10:59 | |
about something else. It does open
up the conversation about what | 1:10:59 | 1:11:04 | |
enslavement looks like in our
society. Frankly, it is everywhere. | 1:11:04 | 1:11:09 | |
Yes, it is obvious in some aspects
of prostitution. Sometimes we see | 1:11:09 | 1:11:14 | |
children who have been entrapped
into the county lines. Sometimes | 1:11:14 | 1:11:21 | |
these are issues which we know
exist. Frankly, the people enslaved | 1:11:21 | 1:11:25 | |
can be in almost any occupation, any
area of activity, and we need to | 1:11:25 | 1:11:30 | |
recognise that. We do therefore need
to raise public awareness and if you | 1:11:30 | 1:11:35 | |
like, corporate awareness as well. I
thought it was sad my honourable | 1:11:35 | 1:11:39 | |
friend for Bristol East made the
point about the criticism of Avon | 1:11:39 | 1:11:43 | |
and Somerset police force. Frankly,
it's a few police officers put nail | 1:11:43 | 1:11:46 | |
varnish on to bring home to the
public that in our nail bars there | 1:11:46 | 1:11:51 | |
may be people who are enslaved, I
don't think that such a terrible | 1:11:51 | 1:11:55 | |
thing to do. It is a sensible thing,
because it is actually saying to the | 1:11:55 | 1:12:01 | |
public, please be aware, please
think about where people around you | 1:12:01 | 1:12:06 | |
may be enslaved. A couple of points,
if I may. One of the things that I | 1:12:06 | 1:12:13 | |
hope the Minister will consider, at
the moment, there is a duty to | 1:12:13 | 1:12:18 | |
notify, but that duty to notify is
still circumscribed, but we may be | 1:12:18 | 1:12:23 | |
do need to look at extending that
concept. We also have talked, | 1:12:23 | 1:12:27 | |
members have talked about the
facilities for when people are | 1:12:27 | 1:12:35 | |
broken from their enslavement is.
Very often, one of the issues is | 1:12:35 | 1:12:40 | |
that first night accommodation.
Where do people go, literally on the | 1:12:40 | 1:12:44 | |
day that police and others bring
them? I have paid for a safe place | 1:12:44 | 1:12:57 | |
for that emergency accommodation but
we do need to look at the issue of | 1:12:57 | 1:13:00 | |
ongoing accommodation, and we do
need to work with the voluntary | 1:13:00 | 1:13:05 | |
sector in making sure that provision
is there. And they, provision of | 1:13:05 | 1:13:12 | |
institutional support is absolutely
fundamental in this. If I can | 1:13:12 | 1:13:15 | |
finish, perhaps on a good note, my
red for Gedling talked about the | 1:13:15 | 1:13:20 | |
need for compensation. There is a
case of a woman Alexandra, Hungarian | 1:13:20 | 1:13:27 | |
woman who was tricked into coming to
the UK to Greater Manchester, with | 1:13:27 | 1:13:31 | |
the offer of legitimate work. She
was forced to work and I will use | 1:13:31 | 1:13:37 | |
the term sex worker, on the streets
of Manchester. Nothing voluntary | 1:13:37 | 1:13:42 | |
about that. The good news is the
police were able to work with her. | 1:13:42 | 1:13:46 | |
They worked with her to such an
extent, that she came back too | 1:13:46 | 1:13:51 | |
hungry to take place in the
prosecution. The criminal injuries | 1:13:51 | 1:13:55 | |
authority did Ward, they should. She
is now living with her son in | 1:13:55 | 1:14:00 | |
Hungary, happy and free.
I congratulate the honourable | 1:14:00 | 1:14:07 | |
gentleman from Gedling on bringing
this important debate and also the | 1:14:07 | 1:14:11 | |
honourable lady from Birmingham
Yardley, she comes to this House | 1:14:11 | 1:14:14 | |
with a huge experience and passion
and we're lucky to have someone with | 1:14:14 | 1:14:19 | |
her background in this place. This
week there was a highly critical | 1:14:19 | 1:14:23 | |
report that found police forces are
failing to tackle modern slavery and | 1:14:23 | 1:14:28 | |
human trafficking because the cases
are often too difficult and senior | 1:14:28 | 1:14:31 | |
officers believe the public lack
sympathy for victims. This report | 1:14:31 | 1:14:35 | |
should concern us all as we consider
our international obligations and | 1:14:35 | 1:14:39 | |
how we support those who are
involved in trafficking and modern | 1:14:39 | 1:14:43 | |
slavery. Sadly I have my own
constituency experience. You come to | 1:14:43 | 1:14:49 | |
this role and you have an idea of
what you may or may not deal with. | 1:14:49 | 1:14:54 | |
In my constituency of Livingston, I
have to say I did not expect to deal | 1:14:54 | 1:14:58 | |
with modern slavery, but the case we
have had to deal with has been | 1:14:58 | 1:15:01 | |
deeply distressing for my
constituent and also my constituency | 1:15:01 | 1:15:05 | |
staff. She was trafficked from
Nigeria to London at the age of 14, | 1:15:05 | 1:15:11 | |
subjected to horrific abuse,
including rape, before she escaped | 1:15:11 | 1:15:15 | |
to my constituency of Livingston.
The Metropolitan Police worked | 1:15:15 | 1:15:19 | |
incredibly hard to bring charges
against her kidnapper, but told us | 1:15:19 | 1:15:28 | |
in the aftermath, and when we were
dealing with her case initially, the | 1:15:28 | 1:15:31 | |
burden of proof in these cases is
often so high, that they were not | 1:15:31 | 1:15:34 | |
able to charge anyone.
Unfortunately, the Home Office were | 1:15:34 | 1:15:36 | |
predicated on her leave to remain on
the conviction of her abuser, which | 1:15:36 | 1:15:38 | |
in itself I feel highlights the
flaws in the Home Office internal | 1:15:38 | 1:15:41 | |
processes. I do want to recognise
the work that has been done by the | 1:15:41 | 1:15:45 | |
Government in bringing the bonds
slavery act and the work they are | 1:15:45 | 1:15:48 | |
doing, but I think my constituency
case highlights some of the | 1:15:48 | 1:15:53 | |
challenges and floors -- Modern
Slavery Act. I identify some of the | 1:15:53 | 1:16:01 | |
issues. I would advise that the
burden of proof in a criminal case | 1:16:01 | 1:16:05 | |
is far higher beyond all reasonable
doubt than of a civil case. In light | 1:16:05 | 1:16:13 | |
of this, I would suggest any outcome
of a criminal case not impact on any | 1:16:13 | 1:16:18 | |
immigration appeal. I know the Prime
Minister when she was Home Secretary | 1:16:18 | 1:16:23 | |
commissioned a report which said
slavery remained under reported but | 1:16:23 | 1:16:27 | |
operational response was improving,
however the response said there was | 1:16:27 | 1:16:31 | |
a lack of consistency between
law-enforcement and criminal justice | 1:16:31 | 1:16:35 | |
agencies and poor quality
intelligence at all levels. | 1:16:35 | 1:16:41 | |
As things stand, my constituency has
-- my | 1:16:41 | 1:16:46 | |
As things stand, my constituency has
-- my constituent has the temporary | 1:16:46 | 1:16:48 | |
right to remain. The Home Office
needs to review its processes and | 1:16:48 | 1:16:51 | |
this case. The case might have been
difficult but the officers who | 1:16:51 | 1:16:55 | |
worked on it fought tooth and nail
from a constituent and I want to pay | 1:16:55 | 1:17:01 | |
tribute to the Met Police and put on
record how grateful I am for the | 1:17:01 | 1:17:07 | |
work they did to protect my
constituent when she was scared, | 1:17:07 | 1:17:10 | |
scared to send her children to
school, when she was worried her | 1:17:10 | 1:17:14 | |
attacker may come to Scotland and
seek her out. The notion that | 1:17:14 | 1:17:19 | |
anybody can that empathy or
sympathy, to me, it beggars belief. | 1:17:19 | 1:17:25 | |
That is what the report says.
Listening to the case of my | 1:17:25 | 1:17:29 | |
constituent, anyone would find it
difficult, and the cases of others | 1:17:29 | 1:17:32 | |
brought forward, to have sympathy
for those. She was brought at the | 1:17:32 | 1:17:39 | |
age of 14, taken to Nigeria, an
airport, given clothes and told she | 1:17:39 | 1:17:46 | |
would be leaving the country. The
women who took her told her not to | 1:17:46 | 1:17:50 | |
talk to anyone and do she was told.
She was brought to London and taken | 1:17:50 | 1:17:54 | |
to a house where she was told she
would be staying and looking after | 1:17:54 | 1:17:58 | |
children. She asked the woman when
she would be going back to school. | 1:17:58 | 1:18:02 | |
It was the first time the woman
slapped her. Mrs George asked about | 1:18:02 | 1:18:06 | |
her mother and she was told only to
speak when she was spoken to and | 1:18:06 | 1:18:09 | |
that she would not be allowed to
make any friends. Her daily routine | 1:18:09 | 1:18:13 | |
but getting up at 5am to get the
children ready for school, | 1:18:13 | 1:18:17 | |
collecting them, shopping, cleaning,
cooking. If she went out on an | 1:18:17 | 1:18:23 | |
errand, the woman would spit on the
floor and tell her she had to be | 1:18:23 | 1:18:26 | |
back before the split had dried or
she would be beaten. She was beaten | 1:18:26 | 1:18:34 | |
on a daily basis, she had her head
flushed down the toilet, she was | 1:18:34 | 1:18:38 | |
often privy to what we believe were
drug deals within the house. She had | 1:18:38 | 1:18:43 | |
a kettle of boiling water poured
over her chest. The details are very | 1:18:43 | 1:18:50 | |
distressing. My constituent gave us
permission before I came to the | 1:18:50 | 1:18:54 | |
House today to share those. I have
not shared them publicly before | 1:18:54 | 1:18:58 | |
although I have raised the case and
I am grateful for the work done by | 1:18:58 | 1:19:02 | |
the Home Office. Mrs George was
terrified that she would be killed | 1:19:02 | 1:19:05 | |
and that nobody would know she was
there. She was told if she ran away, | 1:19:05 | 1:19:09 | |
nobody would believe her. There was
nowhere for her to hide and she | 1:19:09 | 1:19:13 | |
would not be found, she was told.
She said there were often men honey | 1:19:13 | 1:19:18 | |
around and eventually when she
escaped at 17, she spent some time | 1:19:18 | 1:19:22 | |
on the streets, homeless, and
eventually was held at knife-point | 1:19:22 | 1:19:25 | |
and raped in North London -- men
hanging around. She escaped with her | 1:19:25 | 1:19:30 | |
now husband to Livingston, they have
jobs, three children, beautiful | 1:19:30 | 1:19:36 | |
children, they started a new life in
Livingston, but when she applied for | 1:19:36 | 1:19:41 | |
indefinite leave to remain, she was
told she could not work. Since the | 1:19:41 | 1:19:46 | |
Home Office intervention and
temporary leave to remain, both her | 1:19:46 | 1:19:49 | |
and her husband have returned to
work and her husband recently won an | 1:19:49 | 1:19:54 | |
award for social entrepreneurship.
It seems incredible that today | 1:19:54 | 1:19:58 | |
anybody would face such persecution
and such terrible treatment, but it | 1:19:58 | 1:20:04 | |
is the reality of my constituent and
I asked the Minister today to work | 1:20:04 | 1:20:07 | |
with me to look again at this case.
It is so distressing. She has come | 1:20:07 | 1:20:12 | |
to Livingston and spent significant
years there bringing up her children | 1:20:12 | 1:20:18 | |
and contributing to society. The
Scottish Government has done a huge | 1:20:18 | 1:20:21 | |
amount of work on the Sun published
its trafficking and exploitation | 1:20:21 | 1:20:24 | |
strategy to identify Papa support
victims and disrupt activity. I know | 1:20:24 | 1:20:33 | |
the Scottish Government is hugely
committed to that work and would | 1:20:33 | 1:20:36 | |
encourage the UK Government to look
at the good example being worked on. | 1:20:36 | 1:20:43 | |
-- to identify perpetrators. The
flaws that exist in the legal system | 1:20:43 | 1:20:50 | |
and in the Home Office are real,
real constituency cases we have, so | 1:20:50 | 1:20:55 | |
I hope the minister is listening and
she will do all she can to make sure | 1:20:55 | 1:20:59 | |
the flaws in the system are sorted
out. Thank you. May I congratulate | 1:20:59 | 1:21:06 | |
the right honourable friend for
moving this important debate? It | 1:21:06 | 1:21:11 | |
goes without saying human
trafficking, sexual exploitation, | 1:21:11 | 1:21:18 | |
forced labour, organ harvesting,
servitude, to name but a few forms | 1:21:18 | 1:21:23 | |
of modern slavery, it is criminally
deplorable. For many people, it goes | 1:21:23 | 1:21:26 | |
unseen. It is for this House and for
others to make it clear slavery | 1:21:26 | 1:21:33 | |
continues to exist at every level of
our society, including in my | 1:21:33 | 1:21:38 | |
constituency of Bristol North West.
As recently as July, as my right | 1:21:38 | 1:21:42 | |
honourable friend said, even in
Somerset a nail bombers raided, | 1:21:42 | 1:21:49 | |
arresting four people on suspicion
of human trafficking and slavery. -- | 1:21:49 | 1:21:53 | |
a nail bar was raided. In one of my
first constituency surgeries as a | 1:21:53 | 1:22:01 | |
new MP, and constituent came to me
with little English, tearful, unable | 1:22:01 | 1:22:04 | |
to communicate the sheer
disempowerment and lack of dignity | 1:22:04 | 1:22:10 | |
she had suffered from sexual
exploitation in another part of this | 1:22:10 | 1:22:13 | |
country, but thanks to the helpline
and Modern Slavery Act, she was | 1:22:13 | 1:22:24 | |
being supported, although with the
slow visa process. Car washes and | 1:22:24 | 1:22:29 | |
nail bars require local knowledge. I
shared concerns that the papers have | 1:22:29 | 1:22:37 | |
so-called reported a backlash
against Avon and Somerset | 1:22:37 | 1:22:40 | |
Constabulary for wanting to raise
this issue on social media in a way | 1:22:40 | 1:22:45 | |
that communicates to people in their
daily lives to keep an eye out for | 1:22:45 | 1:22:48 | |
where do you see these activities
happening, and so with thanks to my | 1:22:48 | 1:22:52 | |
honourable friend 's, perhaps it
is... I too proudly paint my nails | 1:22:52 | 1:23:01 | |
today in support of the Let's Nail
It Campaign. For those... It is not | 1:23:01 | 1:23:12 | |
an endorsement of Eddie Izzard for
the labour NEC. We know much more | 1:23:12 | 1:23:17 | |
needs to be done and in the face of
continued and severe cuts to | 1:23:17 | 1:23:21 | |
policing, the job is becoming more
difficult. I often stand here and | 1:23:21 | 1:23:26 | |
say Bristol is leading the way, but
perhaps that is the case with this | 1:23:26 | 1:23:32 | |
too. In 2008, there were safe
houses. In 2011, resettlement | 1:23:32 | 1:23:37 | |
service. In 2013, the establishment
of the anti-slavery partnership in | 1:23:37 | 1:23:43 | |
Bristol and now the headquarters of
the national charity Unseen. In true | 1:23:43 | 1:23:50 | |
Bristol fashion, we are also
innovating in the way we do these | 1:23:50 | 1:23:53 | |
things. As the honourable member has
mentioned, the transparency and | 1:23:53 | 1:23:57 | |
supply chains report, the TISC
report, helping to track and monitor | 1:23:57 | 1:24:02 | |
compliance with the modern slavery
act, it was built in Bristol | 1:24:02 | 1:24:09 | |
providing the compliant solution to
prevent modern slavery. But there is | 1:24:09 | 1:24:12 | |
little point in legislating without
enforcement. We have already heard | 1:24:12 | 1:24:19 | |
about the difficulties of police
being able to enforce because of | 1:24:19 | 1:24:23 | |
cuts to funding, but even the TISC
report which has a growing list of | 1:24:23 | 1:24:28 | |
over 2000 companies who continue to
not comply with their reporting | 1:24:28 | 1:24:33 | |
obligations under the act, I do not
know whether the minister has seen | 1:24:33 | 1:24:36 | |
the report, I'm very happy to
arrange for a copy to be given to | 1:24:36 | 1:24:40 | |
her, but I hope she will set out
what she will do to ensure companies | 1:24:40 | 1:24:43 | |
get in line and take this matter
seriously. I finally draw attention | 1:24:43 | 1:24:50 | |
to the issue of construction
projects. Web projects are entirely | 1:24:50 | 1:24:55 | |
privately funded, checks and
balances are by Prost and with the | 1:24:55 | 1:24:59 | |
use of subcontractors who
subcontract, umbrella companies to | 1:24:59 | 1:25:04 | |
sign a deal but do not employ
workers themselves, the situation | 1:25:04 | 1:25:07 | |
becomes much more complex. It is
often at the depths of the | 1:25:07 | 1:25:12 | |
subcontractor chain were
exploitation takes place. I raise | 1:25:12 | 1:25:15 | |
this because I have significant
construction projects in or near my | 1:25:15 | 1:25:22 | |
constituency, Hinkley Point C,
supply chains, new homes, expanding | 1:25:22 | 1:25:27 | |
retail, major infrastructure
upgrades in Bristol. I understand | 1:25:27 | 1:25:30 | |
from trade union officials who play
a vital role on the shop floor | 1:25:30 | 1:25:34 | |
checking whether this exploitation
is happening that there are concerns | 1:25:34 | 1:25:39 | |
of unethical working practices and
moving on modern slavery, in that I | 1:25:39 | 1:25:44 | |
am working with them on. Learning
the lessons from the Welsh | 1:25:44 | 1:25:47 | |
Government who have brought together
unethical working practices | 1:25:47 | 1:25:51 | |
alongside modern slavery to create
an ethical workplace constituents, I | 1:25:51 | 1:25:55 | |
will begin a new project next year
to to eradicate unethical working | 1:25:55 | 1:26:00 | |
practices and modern slavery from my
constituency. To those individuals | 1:26:00 | 1:26:04 | |
and companies who we know exploit or
enslave constituents, or those who | 1:26:04 | 1:26:09 | |
enslave others, let me be clear, you
are on notice, you are not welcome, | 1:26:09 | 1:26:15 | |
working with partners, we will
ensure you are prosecuted. In order | 1:26:15 | 1:26:19 | |
to do this work properly, I must
work with businesses, trade unions, | 1:26:19 | 1:26:25 | |
community groups, and important
innovations such as the TISC report | 1:26:25 | 1:26:29 | |
with proper funding for policing and
support from the Home Office to | 1:26:29 | 1:26:33 | |
support those who have been
enslaved, so I make the final plea | 1:26:33 | 1:26:36 | |
to the minister to set out how the
government in face of all of these | 1:26:36 | 1:26:40 | |
challenges will ensure a good piece
of legislation in the Modern Slavery | 1:26:40 | 1:26:45 | |
Act is enforced properly and how we
can work with partners to ensure is | 1:26:45 | 1:26:49 | |
that is the case. I appreciate the
opportunity to speak in this debate | 1:26:49 | 1:26:55 | |
on a subject I feel very strongly
about because it is one that gets to | 1:26:55 | 1:26:58 | |
the root of who and where we are as
a society, it tells us a lot about | 1:26:58 | 1:27:03 | |
whether we truly are the peaceful,
free, modern 21st-century democracy | 1:27:03 | 1:27:08 | |
we strive to be and that we support
others to be as well. Much we have | 1:27:08 | 1:27:12 | |
heard in this debate, much to be
proud of, I am new to this place, | 1:27:12 | 1:27:16 | |
but I am aware of the 2015 at it has
been described as trailblazing, and | 1:27:16 | 1:27:21 | |
we should celebrate there are those
protections for individuals in law. | 1:27:21 | 1:27:25 | |
We should celebrate the obligations
on businesses to be transparent | 1:27:25 | 1:27:29 | |
about modern slavery and the
possible risk and we should | 1:27:29 | 1:27:33 | |
celebrate the great legal powers for
the authorities to bring those to | 1:27:33 | 1:27:36 | |
justice who do the awful things we
have heard in this discussion. But | 1:27:36 | 1:27:39 | |
as last week we celebrate the
passing of modern slavery day, it is | 1:27:39 | 1:27:44 | |
right we consider how the law is
doing and how we can make sure it | 1:27:44 | 1:27:47 | |
delivers | 1:27:47 | 1:27:57 | |
what we want it to. I would like to
congratulate my honourable friend | 1:28:03 | 1:28:05 | |
for securing this debate, I was
proud to support it, but also to | 1:28:05 | 1:28:08 | |
congratulate him on his work as
co-chair of the old parliamentary | 1:28:08 | 1:28:10 | |
party group on human trafficking. I
know members are very active in | 1:28:10 | 1:28:12 | |
that. I will focus on firstly
awareness and secondly what we might | 1:28:12 | 1:28:15 | |
do to the current legislation. I
start with awareness because as I | 1:28:15 | 1:28:17 | |
guess... I have learned something in
the course of this discussion I did | 1:28:17 | 1:28:20 | |
not know. The honourable member
highlighted the scheme that is | 1:28:20 | 1:28:22 | |
apparently, if I have understood,
operating in my dioceses, so I will | 1:28:22 | 1:28:27 | |
be seeking them out to see how I
might help with that. Having laid my | 1:28:27 | 1:28:33 | |
own ignorance on the table, I was
shocked to read the results of the | 1:28:33 | 1:28:37 | |
polls by the Co-op Group that one in
five people in Britain have never | 1:28:37 | 1:28:40 | |
heard of modern slavery and two
thirds, the critical thing, would | 1:28:40 | 1:28:44 | |
not know what to do to spot the
crime. Furthermore, that poll said a | 1:28:44 | 1:28:49 | |
tenth of Britons think they may have
come across a victim yet half would | 1:28:49 | 1:28:53 | |
not know how to react or who to talk
to, a poll of 2000 people. Clearly | 1:28:53 | 1:28:58 | |
there is something that must be done
and that is a role for us in this | 1:28:58 | 1:29:02 | |
place and as leaders in our
communities and an important role | 1:29:02 | 1:29:06 | |
the business and local authorities
to plague heightening awareness, | 1:29:06 | 1:29:08 | |
using whatever power or influence
they have to make sure people know | 1:29:08 | 1:29:14 | |
what is going on, how to spot it,
and what to do. Before I came to | 1:29:14 | 1:29:19 | |
this place, I was a member of
Nottingham City Council, one of my | 1:29:19 | 1:29:24 | |
special responsibilities was around
procurement. It is very difficult on | 1:29:24 | 1:29:28 | |
a monthly procurement committee, an
awful lot of very important thing is | 1:29:28 | 1:29:34 | |
commissioned, from public sources,
private sources, community and | 1:29:34 | 1:29:37 | |
voluntary sector sources, following
the pounds through, as the | 1:29:37 | 1:29:41 | |
honourable member said, through the
first commissioning process to where | 1:29:41 | 1:29:44 | |
they might be going next, very
difficult. Perhaps we could learn | 1:29:44 | 1:29:48 | |
from the Welsh Assembly government
about their code of practice to make | 1:29:48 | 1:29:51 | |
sure local authority leads are able
to properly follow the money and | 1:29:51 | 1:29:57 | |
make sure they are not doing things
they would not countenance they | 1:29:57 | 1:30:00 | |
would do. Outside of statutory
services, innovative employment | 1:30:00 | 1:30:04 | |
programme such as the Co-op and
anti-trafficking group which claims | 1:30:04 | 1:30:10 | |
to offer proper work to victims of
modern slavery, so they can get on | 1:30:10 | 1:30:14 | |
and get their lives back to normal
and be treated properly. Those are | 1:30:14 | 1:30:18 | |
the sorts of things we can do around
awareness, just last month, the | 1:30:18 | 1:30:23 | |
Prime Minister, who I want to
associate myself with comments | 1:30:23 | 1:30:26 | |
across the House about and the Prime
Minister is leading that, she said | 1:30:26 | 1:30:30 | |
she hoped we would reimagine the
British dream, time to forge a bold | 1:30:30 | 1:30:34 | |
new role for ourselves on the world
stage and take the lead on cracking | 1:30:34 | 1:30:39 | |
down on modern slavery wherever it
is found, and that is really | 1:30:39 | 1:30:43 | |
important. Moving on to the act, the
member state it that she did not | 1:30:43 | 1:30:47 | |
feel the estimates of 10-13,000
exploited people were accurate, I | 1:30:47 | 1:30:52 | |
share that, I know the police think
it is the tip of the iceberg and the | 1:30:52 | 1:30:58 | |
tsar has described the estimate as
far too low. We know we need to do | 1:30:58 | 1:31:02 | |
more to find these victims and help
them out. A good place to start is | 1:31:02 | 1:31:06 | |
with the obligation of transparency,
to look at the businesses or | 1:31:06 | 1:31:11 | |
businesses operating in the UK with
a global turnover of 36 million to | 1:31:11 | 1:31:15 | |
see, is this working? I have tabled
written questions to ministers, not | 1:31:15 | 1:31:20 | |
to show anyone up, but to build up a
picture of what has happened and I | 1:31:20 | 1:31:23 | |
know it is very variable in terms of
how firms have treated the | 1:31:23 | 1:31:29 | |
obligation and what we understand in
the aggregate as a parliament, as to | 1:31:29 | 1:31:33 | |
the impact. We need to look at but
to see what we can do with the | 1:31:33 | 1:31:37 | |
public sector, to see whether 36
million has proven and effective | 1:31:37 | 1:31:41 | |
threshold, to close the loophole, I
am concerned with the 2022 World Cup | 1:31:41 | 1:31:46 | |
in Qatar. At the moment the
legislation has a loophole which | 1:31:46 | 1:31:49 | |
means there is no obligation to
report on wholly-owned subsidiaries | 1:31:49 | 1:31:55 | |
working overseas who could be
working in Qatar but there is no | 1:31:55 | 1:31:59 | |
obligation to report. Firms may
unwittingly be involved in things | 1:31:59 | 1:32:03 | |
they would not countenance doing in
Britain and elsewhere and we should | 1:32:03 | 1:32:05 | |
be concerned about that. | 1:32:05 | 1:32:10 | |
There are other things we can do as
well. The 45 day support has been | 1:32:10 | 1:32:15 | |
played out by others. Scotland is
moving to 90 days. We should look at | 1:32:15 | 1:32:20 | |
the same, perhaps even further. And
to look at what that offer of | 1:32:20 | 1:32:25 | |
assistance and support should be.
The 36 million threshold, we could | 1:32:25 | 1:32:31 | |
revisit also. Eventually, and I
think this touches on what the | 1:32:31 | 1:32:33 | |
previous speech from my honourable
friend was saying, eventually, the | 1:32:33 | 1:32:39 | |
shoe has to drop with noncompliant
companies. I can understand that | 1:32:39 | 1:32:44 | |
people would say initially as new
legislation comes in, there might be | 1:32:44 | 1:32:48 | |
some patients from firms to get it
right, but now we are getting to the | 1:32:48 | 1:32:52 | |
point where those reports have to be
done, they have to be accurate and | 1:32:52 | 1:32:56 | |
the penalties for not doing so
should be considerable. So there is | 1:32:56 | 1:33:00 | |
lots to do. I think all of those
things would improve this | 1:33:00 | 1:33:04 | |
legislation and improve our
society's approach to modern | 1:33:04 | 1:33:07 | |
slavery. I am one of 38 labour and
co-op members of Parliament and this | 1:33:07 | 1:33:12 | |
is one of the key issues for this
year. I will be using my place in | 1:33:12 | 1:33:17 | |
this chamber and the rest of the
other great opportunities we have | 1:33:17 | 1:33:22 | |
two raise this issue in the House
and outside and make sure we make | 1:33:22 | 1:33:27 | |
the legislation as best as possible
and we shine a light into the dark | 1:33:27 | 1:33:31 | |
corners.
Can I start by sincerely | 1:33:31 | 1:33:36 | |
congratulating the honourable member
for Gedling and his colleagues for | 1:33:36 | 1:33:40 | |
bringing this timely and important
debate, and indeed honourable | 1:33:40 | 1:33:42 | |
members who have taken part today
for their thoughtful and powerful | 1:33:42 | 1:33:46 | |
speeches. I recently had the
pleasure to visit the slave trade | 1:33:46 | 1:33:51 | |
Museum in Liverpool, shockingly and
bravely set out the close link | 1:33:51 | 1:33:56 | |
between that fantastic city and the
historic slave trade from Liverpool | 1:33:56 | 1:34:04 | |
ships transporting thousands across
the Atlantic. Many people would | 1:34:04 | 1:34:08 | |
think that was the only place you
would still find slavery today in | 1:34:08 | 1:34:11 | |
the UK. If this debate has drawn
attention to its ongoing existence, | 1:34:11 | 1:34:19 | |
that is good thing, and I think the
painted nails will help in that | 1:34:19 | 1:34:23 | |
regard. But despair after this
parliament voted to abolish the | 1:34:23 | 1:34:29 | |
slave trade we are once again must
face down a new and modern form of | 1:34:29 | 1:34:34 | |
slavery and trafficking. We have
heard the estimate of ten to 30,000 | 1:34:34 | 1:34:39 | |
victims in the UK is likely to be a
grave underestimate, and as members | 1:34:39 | 1:34:45 | |
have outlined, it affect on each of
those victims is absolutely | 1:34:45 | 1:34:48 | |
immeasurable. We all sincerely hope
that 2015 will be looked back upon | 1:34:48 | 1:34:52 | |
as a turning point, the year in
which three different parliaments | 1:34:52 | 1:34:57 | |
took up that battle by passing
legislation first of all here, then | 1:34:57 | 1:35:00 | |
at Holyrood and then in Stormont.
That legislation has been widely | 1:35:00 | 1:35:06 | |
praised. Stronger powers, risk
orders, independent child advocates, | 1:35:06 | 1:35:13 | |
the one thing the Minister might
want to addresses when they are | 1:35:13 | 1:35:16 | |
going to be rolled out across
England and Wales, and the duty to | 1:35:16 | 1:35:20 | |
notify all of which make for a solid
legislative platform on which to | 1:35:20 | 1:35:24 | |
build. Yet again we have a very
salutary lesson that legislation in | 1:35:24 | 1:35:29 | |
itself is not enough, just as indeed
the 1807 act was one step too long | 1:35:29 | 1:35:34 | |
route to ending slave trade. In her
one-year review, Caroline Haughey | 1:35:34 | 1:35:44 | |
said the act was a work in progress
and said it could have a strong | 1:35:44 | 1:35:50 | |
impact is used to its full potential
and that is undoubtedly true. I | 1:35:50 | 1:35:54 | |
commend those on bringing the
debate, focusing on implementation | 1:35:54 | 1:35:58 | |
and they could not have timed it any
better with the publication of Her | 1:35:58 | 1:36:06 | |
Majesty Inspector of Constabulary
report from earlier on this week. | 1:36:06 | 1:36:08 | |
One frustration at looking at that,
it almost feels like the Haughey | 1:36:08 | 1:36:14 | |
review has been sat on a shelf and
allowed to gather dust in some | 1:36:14 | 1:36:19 | |
respects. Haughey suggested there
was a need for specialism in forces | 1:36:19 | 1:36:23 | |
by using single points of contact.
She also points to the importance of | 1:36:23 | 1:36:28 | |
intelligence capacity at regional
and international levels and the | 1:36:28 | 1:36:31 | |
need for tailored training,
especially for front line police and | 1:36:31 | 1:36:36 | |
criminal Justice staff. Reading the
HMIC report, it is clear that is not | 1:36:36 | 1:36:42 | |
happening in far too many places.
Mrs Haughey found pockets of good | 1:36:42 | 1:36:47 | |
practice and the honourable member
for Rochdale referred to Greater | 1:36:47 | 1:36:50 | |
Manchester Police who were strongly
praised but overall, the conclusions | 1:36:50 | 1:36:55 | |
cannot be described as anything
other than disappointing. The | 1:36:55 | 1:36:58 | |
victims have been let down and the
police services have to do more | 1:36:58 | 1:37:03 | |
before it is satisfied and
responding quickly to modern slavery | 1:37:03 | 1:37:05 | |
and human trafficking. As four chief
constables acknowledge, this report | 1:37:05 | 1:37:12 | |
has to be seen as a wake-up call. I
detect a willingness there to detect | 1:37:12 | 1:37:17 | |
this. There are two review setting
out what has to be done. What we | 1:37:17 | 1:37:21 | |
also need is a government to provide
resources and a strategy to make it | 1:37:21 | 1:37:25 | |
happen. A huge range of issues have
been raised to date quite rightly by | 1:37:25 | 1:37:36 | |
honourable members. One which has
been mentioned already, is what | 1:37:36 | 1:37:38 | |
happens in terms of immigration
rules if victims are discovered. | 1:37:38 | 1:37:40 | |
There is report by the work and
pensions committee and made powerful | 1:37:40 | 1:37:47 | |
reports about workers in Dubai about
the immigration status and the | 1:37:47 | 1:37:52 | |
effect it has an access to support.
There are those who will be | 1:37:52 | 1:37:58 | |
recognised as refugees. There are
smaller numbers of non-EU nationals | 1:37:58 | 1:38:02 | |
who have obtained discretion leave
without having to apply, and a | 1:38:02 | 1:38:05 | |
similar number of EEA nationals who
are granted that but only after an | 1:38:05 | 1:38:10 | |
application first of all. For many,
there is no stability. That is | 1:38:10 | 1:38:15 | |
particularly the case for EEA
nationals who are almost certainly | 1:38:15 | 1:38:19 | |
going to find it impossible to show
that they are exercising treaty | 1:38:19 | 1:38:22 | |
rights hair, and that has a knock-on
implementation on their ability to | 1:38:22 | 1:38:29 | |
claim support. The lack of automatic
entitlement for victims of | 1:38:29 | 1:38:34 | |
trafficking when they are taking
steps to rebuild their lives is a | 1:38:34 | 1:38:40 | |
ludicrous situation. As an
anti-slavery campaigner pointed out, | 1:38:40 | 1:38:46 | |
there is precedent for those who are
here as domestic servants. We | 1:38:46 | 1:38:51 | |
recommend all victims be given
one-year's leave to remain. Imminent | 1:38:51 | 1:39:02 | |
removal is a result of coming
forward as a victim of trafficking, | 1:39:02 | 1:39:05 | |
we are going to struggle to find any
victims of traffickers to prosecute. | 1:39:05 | 1:39:15 | |
We need stronger firewall
established between those bodies | 1:39:15 | 1:39:18 | |
enforcing labour standards and those
enforcing immigration checks. They | 1:39:18 | 1:39:24 | |
often have an inconsistent approach
and that will be an important issue | 1:39:24 | 1:39:28 | |
for the new director of labour
market and force meant going | 1:39:28 | 1:39:30 | |
forward. The second issue which has
been touched on by the honourable | 1:39:30 | 1:39:35 | |
members for Bristol East and
Erewash, is the issue of the supply | 1:39:35 | 1:39:41 | |
chains and statements of companies
with a turnover of more than £36 | 1:39:41 | 1:39:45 | |
million. It is one of the few
provisions in the act to apply | 1:39:45 | 1:39:48 | |
across the UK. It's clear that these
need to be significantly | 1:39:48 | 1:39:53 | |
strengthened. There must be a
requirement to file these with the | 1:39:53 | 1:40:00 | |
public authority in much greater
clarity and what is required in | 1:40:00 | 1:40:03 | |
them. Mil returns cannot be
acceptable otherwise, these | 1:40:03 | 1:40:08 | |
provisions will be proved to be
barely worth the paper they are | 1:40:08 | 1:40:13 | |
written on. In conclusion, the 2015
legislation was a welcome start, | 1:40:13 | 1:40:19 | |
only a start, if the modern slavery
attacked is to become the turning | 1:40:19 | 1:40:23 | |
point it can be, resources need to
be stepped up -- the Modern Slavery | 1:40:23 | 1:40:29 | |
Act.
I want to thank the Backbench | 1:40:29 | 1:40:32 | |
Business Committee and the right
honourable member for Gedling for | 1:40:32 | 1:40:40 | |
leading us on the debate. Have been
many fantastic contributions from | 1:40:40 | 1:40:46 | |
both sides of the House, including
from honourable friends, the members | 1:40:46 | 1:40:51 | |
for Livingston, Cumbernauld and I
would also like to thank the member | 1:40:51 | 1:40:59 | |
for Birmingham Yardley for sharing
her powerful experiences of working | 1:40:59 | 1:41:02 | |
within the sector. The debates are
better with her in it. Sometimes, as | 1:41:02 | 1:41:09 | |
my honourable friend said, I think
we allow our selves to believe that | 1:41:09 | 1:41:13 | |
human trafficking takes place in
some other country, some other | 1:41:13 | 1:41:17 | |
culture and some other time and
place. However, as we have heard, it | 1:41:17 | 1:41:21 | |
is happening here throughout our
communities. The perfectly laudable | 1:41:21 | 1:41:31 | |
Modern Slavery Act aims to get rid
of slavery including domestic | 1:41:31 | 1:41:35 | |
servitude and organ removal. These
are cases which costs when we hear | 1:41:35 | 1:41:40 | |
about them on the news. But we are
misguided if we believe that human | 1:41:40 | 1:41:51 | |
trafficking and exploitation does
not tech base at home. Two thirds of | 1:41:51 | 1:41:55 | |
victims are women that human
trafficking can be committed against | 1:41:55 | 1:42:00 | |
men, women, boys or girls.
Travelling from one place to another | 1:42:00 | 1:42:05 | |
is not required action for it to be
an offence in Scotland and it does | 1:42:05 | 1:42:08 | |
not matter of the victim has
consented or not. Statistics from | 1:42:08 | 1:42:12 | |
the National Crime Agency have
reported that 3805 potential victims | 1:42:12 | 1:42:18 | |
were submitted to the National
framework. As the right honourable | 1:42:18 | 1:42:28 | |
friend for Gedling stated, that was
a 70% increase on the previous year. | 1:42:28 | 1:42:33 | |
150 victims were from Scotland, 123
from Wales and 33 from Northern | 1:42:33 | 1:42:40 | |
Ireland. Behind these damning
statistics are horrifying stories | 1:42:40 | 1:42:43 | |
where lives have been destroyed,
where women have been abused or | 1:42:43 | 1:42:47 | |
children have been sexually
exploited and workers have been | 1:42:47 | 1:42:52 | |
forced to work without pay. Despite
implementation of the act, the | 1:42:52 | 1:42:56 | |
National Crime Agency is warning
about the scale of modern slavery, | 1:42:56 | 1:43:00 | |
stating it is far more prevalent
than previously estimated, with | 1:43:00 | 1:43:04 | |
alleged victims as young as 12 are
being sold and exploited. However, | 1:43:04 | 1:43:08 | |
at the moment the police service
seems to be unable to tackle this | 1:43:08 | 1:43:12 | |
issue. If we accept the Government
funding issues that police are under | 1:43:12 | 1:43:20 | |
but police forces are failing to
recognise the crimes which make up | 1:43:20 | 1:43:23 | |
modern slavery. A recent report has
been referenced already by Her | 1:43:23 | 1:43:33 | |
Majesty's Inspectorate of
Constabulary. It states rather | 1:43:33 | 1:43:35 | |
bluntly that victims of modern
slavery has been let down at every | 1:43:35 | 1:43:38 | |
stage. It States cases are not being
quickly enough and some victims are | 1:43:38 | 1:43:49 | |
not identified. I cannot believe
that when a case of suspected | 1:43:49 | 1:43:54 | |
slavery is suspected, the
authority's first response is to | 1:43:54 | 1:43:59 | |
check the immigration status rather
than stopping the abhorrent abuse. | 1:43:59 | 1:44:04 | |
Cases of slavery and suspected
slavery are being closed without | 1:44:04 | 1:44:08 | |
detectives even speaking to victims.
When the director of the | 1:44:08 | 1:44:14 | |
Inspectorate of Constabulary spoke
they said we found investigations | 1:44:14 | 1:44:19 | |
closed prematurely. Victims were
being left unprotected leaving | 1:44:19 | 1:44:23 | |
perpetrators free to exploit people
as commodities. Madam Deputy | 1:44:23 | 1:44:27 | |
Speaker, this is simply not good
enough. We are failing those who | 1:44:27 | 1:44:30 | |
need our help the most. Women made a
vow that Britain would lead the | 1:44:30 | 1:44:41 | |
world in ending modern slavery. How
close are we to achieving this aim | 1:44:41 | 1:44:45 | |
is Mac we felt catch those who are
reported to appropriate authorities. | 1:44:45 | 1:44:51 | |
We should be concerned at the
fermentation of division is failing | 1:44:51 | 1:44:54 | |
at the moment. Madam Deputy Speaker,
as chair of the all-party group on | 1:44:54 | 1:45:01 | |
the White ribbon campaign, I take
pride in the national movement which | 1:45:01 | 1:45:04 | |
stresses the important role that men
can play in ending abuse that too | 1:45:04 | 1:45:08 | |
many of our young girls face on a
daily basis. Gender-based violence, | 1:45:08 | 1:45:14 | |
including the Porritt act of
trafficking affect every society and | 1:45:14 | 1:45:17 | |
we have the moral and political
responsibility to create a society | 1:45:17 | 1:45:20 | |
where this is consigned to the
history books. Unfortunately, Brexit | 1:45:20 | 1:45:28 | |
may have consequences on the
Government's ability to protect | 1:45:28 | 1:45:32 | |
people from being victims of modern
slavery practices. A report said | 1:45:32 | 1:45:40 | |
Brexit could curtail the efforts to
end human trafficking. Many lawyers | 1:45:40 | 1:45:46 | |
make use of the EU to defend
trafficking due to the lack of | 1:45:46 | 1:45:52 | |
safeguards provided in the act.
Brexit will make it harder for the | 1:45:52 | 1:45:55 | |
UK to work with other EU partners to
solve crimes which take place across | 1:45:55 | 1:46:00 | |
national boundaries. The 2005
convention is a great example of | 1:46:00 | 1:46:05 | |
European countries working together
to protect people being caught in | 1:46:05 | 1:46:09 | |
trafficking. The campaign group
chairman speaks about this | 1:46:09 | 1:46:14 | |
particular issue involving every
trafficking victims protection has | 1:46:14 | 1:46:23 | |
been implemented as a direct result
of the convention. It is said Brexit | 1:46:23 | 1:46:28 | |
will make it harder to tackle this
issue. Therefore, as other members | 1:46:28 | 1:46:32 | |
have mentioned, the Prime Minister
has two guaranteed that that | 1:46:32 | 1:46:36 | |
security cooperation will continue
following our exit from the EU and | 1:46:36 | 1:46:40 | |
this must be a crucial part of
negotiations. | 1:46:40 | 1:46:52 | |
The Scottish Parliament has
unanimously passed the human | 1:46:52 | 1:46:58 | |
trafficking act to consolidate the
existing law and enhance the status | 1:46:58 | 1:47:03 | |
of and support for the victims. The
act also strengthen the penalties | 1:47:03 | 1:47:08 | |
which can be passed down to a
maximum of life in prison. The | 1:47:08 | 1:47:11 | |
Scottish Government published a
strategy to set out how we as a | 1:47:11 | 1:47:18 | |
country intend to eliminate this
crime from our society. It was | 1:47:18 | 1:47:22 | |
developed in partnership with
support groups and those who have | 1:47:22 | 1:47:26 | |
survived human trafficking offences
and it aims to identify and support | 1:47:26 | 1:47:31 | |
victims, disrupt activity, and
address the conditions which foster | 1:47:31 | 1:47:34 | |
trafficking. By listening and
learning from victims, the Scottish | 1:47:34 | 1:47:38 | |
Government have been able to capture
the physical and psychological | 1:47:38 | 1:47:41 | |
damage caused by trafficking. This
new strategy has been welcomed by | 1:47:41 | 1:47:47 | |
important stakeholders including the
Lord Advocate who said, we work on | 1:47:47 | 1:47:52 | |
publication of the trafficking and
exploitation strategy comic human | 1:47:52 | 1:47:55 | |
trafficking is a serious and complex
crime presenting unique challenges, | 1:47:55 | 1:48:00 | |
the strategy will work hand-in-hand
with the tools at our disposal to | 1:48:00 | 1:48:04 | |
tackle this abhorrent trade. As the
member for Nottingham North said, | 1:48:04 | 1:48:11 | |
the Scottish Government has also
announced a period of support for | 1:48:11 | 1:48:17 | |
victims of trafficking has been
doubled to 90 days, Scotland is | 1:48:17 | 1:48:19 | |
leading the way. This is something
the victims of human trafficking | 1:48:19 | 1:48:24 | |
have been calling for and I would
encourage the UK Government to | 1:48:24 | 1:48:28 | |
follow Scotland's lead. In
conclusion, this has been a | 1:48:28 | 1:48:32 | |
consensual yet challenging debate it
is one of the scandals of the modern | 1:48:32 | 1:48:38 | |
age that we have to debate this at
all. Everyone could be affected by | 1:48:38 | 1:48:46 | |
these sick and abhorrent crimes and
we should all be deeply concerned | 1:48:46 | 1:48:49 | |
this is still happening and further
involvement more, it is growing. | 1:48:49 | 1:48:57 | |
Today's debate should serve as a
wake-up call for us to do more to | 1:48:57 | 1:49:00 | |
rid society and the world of modern
slavery. Thank you. I would like to | 1:49:00 | 1:49:09 | |
start by congratulating the
honourable member for not only the | 1:49:09 | 1:49:14 | |
debate but that excellent way he
takes the lead on this issue. I | 1:49:14 | 1:49:18 | |
would like to congratulate the
members for Bristol East and North | 1:49:18 | 1:49:23 | |
West, Rochdale and Nottingham North,
for their excellent contributions | 1:49:23 | 1:49:28 | |
today. I would like to pay special
tribute to the members from | 1:49:28 | 1:49:31 | |
Birmingham Yardley and Livingston
for bringing the real-life | 1:49:31 | 1:49:37 | |
consequences of the evil practice of
slavery into the Chamber today. The | 1:49:37 | 1:49:41 | |
modern slavery act was when this
house passed it a landmark piece of | 1:49:41 | 1:49:49 | |
legislation which provided
leadership on a global scale. | 1:49:49 | 1:49:53 | |
However, the lack of subsequent
legislation has meant it now risks | 1:49:53 | 1:49:57 | |
becoming less effective on key
issues of the fight against modern | 1:49:57 | 1:50:01 | |
slavery. Madam Deputy Speaker, I
will start by setting the scene. | 1:50:01 | 1:50:09 | |
45.8 million people are enslaved
worldwide. This can be anything from | 1:50:09 | 1:50:16 | |
forced labour, forced marriage,
forced sexual exploitation. In the | 1:50:16 | 1:50:20 | |
UK, one of the most developed
countries in the world, there are an | 1:50:20 | 1:50:29 | |
underestimated 13,000 in modern-day
slavery today. This is far too many. | 1:50:29 | 1:50:36 | |
As was alluded to by the honourable
member, companies who have made | 1:50:36 | 1:50:43 | |
statements under section 54 of that
act are in the minority, the | 1:50:43 | 1:50:48 | |
majority have not. Those who have
made a statement, the quality ranges | 1:50:48 | 1:50:51 | |
from very good, and I would
specifically name Marks & Spencer 's | 1:50:51 | 1:50:56 | |
and the Co-operative, to virtually
worthless. Ministers have done | 1:50:56 | 1:51:04 | |
nothing to address this, leaving
businesses free to carry on and take | 1:51:04 | 1:51:09 | |
no action, despite what this House
legislated for. We must put into | 1:51:09 | 1:51:15 | |
place a regime where this house can
be confident that its wishes as | 1:51:15 | 1:51:20 | |
expressed and that the commitment to
the Modern Slavery Act is fulfilled. | 1:51:20 | 1:51:24 | |
I ask the Minister come up when will
the Government publish a list of all | 1:51:24 | 1:51:31 | |
companies that should be producing
statements regarding the modern | 1:51:31 | 1:51:38 | |
slavery policies? -- I asked the
Minister, when will the Government. | 1:51:38 | 1:51:42 | |
The police do a fantastic job when
they protect and rescue individuals | 1:51:42 | 1:51:46 | |
from slavery, but the HMIC report
published earlier this week was a | 1:51:46 | 1:51:51 | |
stark reality check for us all. The
report tells us that all too often | 1:51:51 | 1:51:57 | |
the traffickers threats to the
victims that they have no means of | 1:51:57 | 1:52:00 | |
escape, as they will not be
believed, has sadly become a | 1:52:00 | 1:52:04 | |
self-fulfilling prophecy. The
report's biggest critique outlined | 1:52:04 | 1:52:11 | |
the policing surrounding modern
slavery and human trafficking is | 1:52:11 | 1:52:15 | |
reactive rather than proactive. So
more must be done to support | 1:52:15 | 1:52:20 | |
vulnerable people to ensure that
they will not be placed in the hands | 1:52:20 | 1:52:24 | |
of traffickers. It is vital that we
learn how traffickers prey on the | 1:52:24 | 1:52:31 | |
victim 's so that we are able to be
more of -- more effective. Does the | 1:52:31 | 1:52:38 | |
Minister agree that there is a real
need to improve training for police, | 1:52:38 | 1:52:42 | |
to help them better understand how
to identify victim 's and how best | 1:52:42 | 1:52:49 | |
to respond to the issues? Now I
would like to move the problematic | 1:52:49 | 1:52:55 | |
national referral mechanism. Adults
are required to consent to their | 1:52:55 | 1:53:01 | |
referral but without appropriate
funding, support and accommodation, | 1:53:01 | 1:53:06 | |
and a suitable environment when they
can get proper advice to allow them | 1:53:06 | 1:53:09 | |
to make informed decisions, far too
many turn to homelessness or even | 1:53:09 | 1:53:18 | |
worse, return to the traffickers.
All too often, the forms are rushed, | 1:53:18 | 1:53:28 | |
just to make sure the person
concerned has access to | 1:53:28 | 1:53:32 | |
accommodation. This means that at
times forms or incomplete or contain | 1:53:32 | 1:53:38 | |
inaccurate information. This
undermines the individual's | 1:53:38 | 1:53:40 | |
credibility. Legal advice and
representation must be offered early | 1:53:40 | 1:53:47 | |
to all potential victims to support
them in understanding their rights, | 1:53:47 | 1:53:54 | |
giving them access to justice, and a
real opportunity to move on with | 1:53:54 | 1:53:59 | |
their lives. Government support is
withdrawn quickly, after a | 1:53:59 | 1:54:05 | |
conclusive groundwork decision is
made. NGOs are often having to pick | 1:54:05 | 1:54:13 | |
up the pieces because of a lack of
resources and awareness among local | 1:54:13 | 1:54:17 | |
authorities. Safe house
accommodation should be more | 1:54:17 | 1:54:21 | |
flexible, with support diminishing
gradually, according to the needs of | 1:54:21 | 1:54:30 | |
the individual, and not just the rug
pulled out from under them. Not only | 1:54:30 | 1:54:34 | |
is the lack of support detrimental
to the individuals, it makes it | 1:54:34 | 1:54:40 | |
difficult for police and prosecutors
to do their job. Police have spoken | 1:54:40 | 1:54:45 | |
about losing survivors because of
lack of support. NGOs have spoken | 1:54:45 | 1:54:51 | |
about their anxiety caused by an
insecure immigration status and how | 1:54:51 | 1:54:57 | |
that prevents survivors in dealing
with traumatic experiences. Victims | 1:54:57 | 1:55:05 | |
are entitled to only 45 days of
support following rescue. This is | 1:55:05 | 1:55:10 | |
simply not enough. And regardless of
how well organised that 45 days | 1:55:10 | 1:55:17 | |
support is, it is still not enough
many of those rescued want to regain | 1:55:17 | 1:55:23 | |
control of their lives through
schemes like the Co-op's project | 1:55:23 | 1:55:31 | |
Bright Future, giving them a pathway
back to paid employment, but they | 1:55:31 | 1:55:35 | |
cannot because either they have not
had the support to get them ready | 1:55:35 | 1:55:39 | |
for work or they do not have the
legal right to work. Victims | 1:55:39 | 1:55:47 | |
continue to be denied access to
vital services they need to recover | 1:55:47 | 1:55:50 | |
and rebuild their lives. Authorities
often prioritise immigration control | 1:55:50 | 1:55:57 | |
over the safety of victims. This can
leave adults and children vulnerable | 1:55:57 | 1:56:03 | |
to going missing. Traffickers see
these individuals as vulnerable and | 1:56:03 | 1:56:08 | |
the current system is being
exploited by the traffickers and | 1:56:08 | 1:56:16 | |
there evil and despicable practices.
I welcome the fact the NRM is being | 1:56:16 | 1:56:22 | |
reformed but I hope that during the
reform process organisations such as | 1:56:22 | 1:56:27 | |
the human trafficking organisation,
Unicef, and others, listen to. And | 1:56:27 | 1:56:34 | |
that their advice is heeded. Slavery
touches our lives every day, whether | 1:56:34 | 1:56:42 | |
we know it or not. No country is
free from this horrific crime and no | 1:56:42 | 1:56:47 | |
one is safe. Women, men, youngsters,
and worse still, children, are | 1:56:47 | 1:56:56 | |
vulnerable. Exploitation on any
level is unjustifiable. But when it | 1:56:56 | 1:57:00 | |
involves a child, it is chillingly
deplorable. Huge concern of mine is | 1:57:00 | 1:57:08 | |
that within the national referral
mechanism, there is no specialist | 1:57:08 | 1:57:12 | |
support or accommodation for
trafficked children. I would urge | 1:57:12 | 1:57:16 | |
the Minister to address this as a
matter of urgency. We passed the | 1:57:16 | 1:57:21 | |
legislation in two years ago, but it
has been left to go stale. Either | 1:57:21 | 1:57:25 | |
through a lack of enforcement,
additional legislation or lack of | 1:57:25 | 1:57:30 | |
desire. Victims of modern slavery
are -- of trafficking are still | 1:57:30 | 1:57:38 | |
being... There is no clear pathway
or continuity of support and a lack | 1:57:38 | 1:57:44 | |
of constant training and
coordination of services to protect | 1:57:44 | 1:57:49 | |
them can hinder through lack of
knowledge and appropriate training | 1:57:49 | 1:57:51 | |
and funding. We are dealing with the
most vulnerable individuals. This is | 1:57:51 | 1:57:56 | |
a modern scourge with historical
roots. Too many people are relying | 1:57:56 | 1:58:00 | |
on us to protect them from danger.
And to offer them support. We must | 1:58:00 | 1:58:05 | |
make sure the service we offer is
robust, reliable and effective. | 1:58:05 | 1:58:13 | |
Thank you, Madam and at the
Chairman. I am very grateful to my | 1:58:13 | 1:58:21 | |
Honourable friends -- maddened
deputy chairman. It is a really | 1:58:21 | 1:58:26 | |
important debate today. I am
delighted to see Anthony Steen in | 1:58:26 | 1:58:30 | |
the Chamber today. As the Prime
Minister said, slavery is the | 1:58:30 | 1:58:36 | |
gravest human rights abuse of our
time and we all share in moral duty | 1:58:36 | 1:58:41 | |
to stamp it out and that duty really
should transcend party politics. In | 1:58:41 | 1:58:49 | |
the last two years, since the Prime
Minister brought in the Modern | 1:58:49 | 1:58:54 | |
Slavery Act, we have come a long
way, but we absolutely recognise we | 1:58:54 | 1:58:58 | |
are on a journey and there is much
more that we want to do. I have very | 1:58:58 | 1:59:04 | |
little time this afternoon so I am
going to concentrate my remarks on | 1:59:04 | 1:59:08 | |
reforms to the NRM because I want to
make some important announcements | 1:59:08 | 1:59:13 | |
today. But I will get back to
colleagues who have raised very | 1:59:13 | 1:59:17 | |
important points and I will continue
to work with the APPG and look | 1:59:17 | 1:59:24 | |
forward to further meetings to
discuss further reforms in more | 1:59:24 | 1:59:26 | |
detail. Following the meeting of the
Prime Minister's modern slavery task | 1:59:26 | 1:59:32 | |
force last week, a number of
improvements to the NRM were | 1:59:32 | 1:59:35 | |
announced. To improve the decision
making progress, a new single expert | 1:59:35 | 1:59:39 | |
unit will be created in the Home
Office to make decisions about | 1:59:39 | 1:59:43 | |
whether someone is a victim of
modern slavery. An independent panel | 1:59:43 | 1:59:48 | |
of experts will be created to review
all negative decisions, adding | 1:59:48 | 1:59:53 | |
significantly to the scrutiny such
cases currently receive. A new | 1:59:53 | 1:59:57 | |
judicial system to support the NRM
process will be developed to make it | 1:59:57 | 2:00:01 | |
easier for those on the front line
to refer for support and enabling | 2:00:01 | 2:00:05 | |
data to be captured and analysed to
better aid prevention and law | 2:00:05 | 2:00:11 | |
enforcement -- a new digital system.
To improve support for adults, | 2:00:11 | 2:00:17 | |
before, during and after the NRM,
there are things we want to do. It | 2:00:17 | 2:00:22 | |
is paramount the rights of victims
and entitlements are protected and | 2:00:22 | 2:00:26 | |
this is why the Government will
invoke section 50 of the Modern | 2:00:26 | 2:00:30 | |
Slavery Act and set out in
regulation the support victims are | 2:00:30 | 2:00:35 | |
entitled to. We will also launch a
consultation in the preparation of | 2:00:35 | 2:00:40 | |
statutory guidance under section 48
of the Modern Slavery Act on | 2:00:40 | 2:00:45 | |
identification and support for
victims of slavery. This regulatory | 2:00:45 | 2:00:49 | |
framework will ensure victims know
what they are entitled to and those | 2:00:49 | 2:00:54 | |
working with victims are clear on
their roles and responsibilities. It | 2:00:54 | 2:00:58 | |
is also vital to victims have access
to support immediately upon their | 2:00:58 | 2:01:04 | |
rescue out of situations of
exploitation. Government is | 2:01:04 | 2:01:07 | |
introducing places of safety for the
first three days for adult victims, | 2:01:07 | 2:01:12 | |
when they are identified by public
authorities. Before they make a | 2:01:12 | 2:01:16 | |
decision about whether they want to
enter the NRM. During this period, | 2:01:16 | 2:01:21 | |
potential victims will receive
advice and support to ensure they | 2:01:21 | 2:01:26 | |
understand their options and what
entering the NRM will mean for them. | 2:01:26 | 2:01:30 | |
Next, if potential victim does opt
to enter the NRM, we must ensure the | 2:01:30 | 2:01:37 | |
care they receive is consistent and
meeting minimum standards, | 2:01:37 | 2:01:40 | |
regardless of where in the country
they are cared for. That is what the | 2:01:40 | 2:01:43 | |
Government will adopt the Human
Trafficking Foundation's trafficking | 2:01:43 | 2:01:48 | |
survivor care standards as a minimum
standard for the Victim Support. | 2:01:48 | 2:01:53 | |
Finally, we know moving on from the
NRM, it can be challenging, a very | 2:01:53 | 2:02:00 | |
difficult time for some victims, as
they leave the security and | 2:02:00 | 2:02:03 | |
sanctuary of a safe house and
reintegrate into society in the UK | 2:02:03 | 2:02:07 | |
or return home. We know in many
cases the current move on support | 2:02:07 | 2:02:12 | |
period of 14 days is not enough
time. To enable the support to | 2:02:12 | 2:02:16 | |
happen. So we will extend that
period the 45 days, guaranteeing the | 2:02:16 | 2:02:22 | |
victims will receive a minimum of 90
days in government funded support. | 2:02:22 | 2:02:29 | |
For those confirmed as not being a
victim, we will further extend their | 2:02:29 | 2:02:32 | |
support by a period of a week to
nine days. | 2:02:32 | 2:02:39 | |
For all of those confirmed victims
who have left the NRM, we will also | 2:02:39 | 2:02:44 | |
run weekly drop-in centres in
partnership with the Salvation Army, | 2:02:44 | 2:02:49 | |
so that victims can continue to
receive ongoing support and advice. | 2:02:49 | 2:02:54 | |
As part of this refocus and
enriching the support that we are | 2:02:54 | 2:02:58 | |
giving to victims, we want to make
sure that we looked at the victims | 2:02:58 | 2:03:04 | |
within the asylum system. As members
will know, and has been commented on | 2:03:04 | 2:03:08 | |
today, a vast number of victims of
slavery are identified by UK visas | 2:03:08 | 2:03:15 | |
and immigration, when they are in
the process of looking through their | 2:03:15 | 2:03:19 | |
applications, because they spot
those people may also be victims of | 2:03:19 | 2:03:22 | |
slavery. It is important that we
ensure consistency between people | 2:03:22 | 2:03:28 | |
with seating can parable government
support in respect of their | 2:03:28 | 2:03:32 | |
day-to-day living expenses while
also ensuring the victims of modern | 2:03:32 | 2:03:37 | |
slavery receive specialist service,
regardless of where they are | 2:03:37 | 2:03:40 | |
accommodated, to enable them to
begin to recover and rebuild their | 2:03:40 | 2:03:44 | |
lives. For those victims of modern
slavery, who are in asylum | 2:03:44 | 2:03:50 | |
accommodation, the specialist
services are provided through | 2:03:50 | 2:03:52 | |
identified outreach support workers,
to insure victims receive the same | 2:03:52 | 2:03:58 | |
expert counselling, medical care,
legal aid and other assistance, as | 2:03:58 | 2:04:01 | |
if they were in NRM safe houses. As
we move towards indentation of | 2:04:01 | 2:04:12 | |
suspicion -- specific improvements
that I have today announced, we also | 2:04:12 | 2:04:17 | |
plan to align the arrangements for
covering basic living costs for | 2:04:17 | 2:04:20 | |
those that are in place for asylum
seekers, while continuing to ensure | 2:04:20 | 2:04:27 | |
that the specific additional needs
certain people have are catered for. | 2:04:27 | 2:04:31 | |
And we really want to build on our
work to make sure we are properly | 2:04:31 | 2:04:36 | |
identifying our victims of modern
slavery. We are also going to be | 2:04:36 | 2:04:40 | |
consulting on strengthening the
first responder role, including | 2:04:40 | 2:04:43 | |
looking at the criteria of who is a
responder and making sure they are | 2:04:43 | 2:04:48 | |
properly trained. Lastly, on our
final objective, we want to ensure | 2:04:48 | 2:04:52 | |
that the support for child victims
is improved. And we will continue to | 2:04:52 | 2:04:57 | |
roll out the independent child
trafficking advocates nationally and | 2:04:57 | 2:05:02 | |
continue to test new and innovative
ways of supporting trafficked | 2:05:02 | 2:05:07 | |
children, including specialist
accommodation. This includes the 2.2 | 2:05:07 | 2:05:13 | |
million funding granted as part of
the child trafficking protection | 2:05:13 | 2:05:16 | |
fund, to test what works for
specialist support of children. We | 2:05:16 | 2:05:19 | |
will also be looking at how best we
can make the NRM decision-making | 2:05:19 | 2:05:28 | |
processes child friendly as
possible, including how we are | 2:05:28 | 2:05:32 | |
communicating to children. Madam
Deputy Speaker, we believe this | 2:05:32 | 2:05:36 | |
package of reform offers a
significant improvement to the NRM | 2:05:36 | 2:05:39 | |
and will put victims needs in the
centre of this process. We are | 2:05:39 | 2:05:43 | |
grateful to the work of the Work and
Pensions Select Committee, the | 2:05:43 | 2:05:49 | |
independent anti-slavery
commissioner, and a number of | 2:05:49 | 2:05:52 | |
organisations across the sector and
indeed members in this House for | 2:05:52 | 2:05:55 | |
their work. And I are absolutely
determined to make sure that as we | 2:05:55 | 2:06:02 | |
deliver the changes that I have
announced today, that I will work | 2:06:02 | 2:06:05 | |
with those organisations, with
members in this House to ensure that | 2:06:05 | 2:06:10 | |
we can ensure victims experience
improvement as soon as possible. I | 2:06:10 | 2:06:18 | |
want no one in this House to be
under any doubt that this government | 2:06:18 | 2:06:23 | |
is totally dedicated to preventing
this most appalling global trade in | 2:06:23 | 2:06:28 | |
human misery, ensuring victims of
modern slavery receive the support | 2:06:28 | 2:06:33 | |
they need and offenders are brought
to justice. Today, we have heard | 2:06:33 | 2:06:39 | |
great examples of work around the
country, to raise awareness. We have | 2:06:39 | 2:06:43 | |
seen powerful messages sent out of
this place today, that despite all | 2:06:43 | 2:06:48 | |
our differences on many other
issues, we are united as a House of | 2:06:48 | 2:06:54 | |
Commons and committed to ending
modern slavery. We all have a role | 2:06:54 | 2:06:59 | |
to play in this House. People beyond
this chamber all have a role to | 2:06:59 | 2:07:04 | |
play. It is clear to me that only by
working together, we can stamp out | 2:07:04 | 2:07:10 | |
this most horrendous crime against a
shared humanity. Vernon Coaker to | 2:07:10 | 2:07:19 | |
wind up.
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can | 2:07:19 | 2:07:22 | |
I start by thanking everyone who has
contributed to what is a massively | 2:07:22 | 2:07:26 | |
important debate from right across
our country. And I am very grateful | 2:07:26 | 2:07:31 | |
to everyone for their time in doing
that. Can I also welcome many of the | 2:07:31 | 2:07:38 | |
statements, the comments the
Minister has just made, and the | 2:07:38 | 2:07:42 | |
reforms that she has just announced.
I think I have had more impact as a | 2:07:42 | 2:07:47 | |
co-chair of the all-party group than
I had as policing minister about | 2:07:47 | 2:07:52 | |
some of the changes! But the serious
point is the changes she has | 2:07:52 | 2:07:57 | |
announced to the national referral
mechanism, particularly in terms of | 2:07:57 | 2:08:01 | |
the extension of the time of support
that will be available is a very | 2:08:01 | 2:08:06 | |
important change. I think the other
changes she has announced in terms | 2:08:06 | 2:08:09 | |
of aligning the living costs
available to victims, those of the | 2:08:09 | 2:08:14 | |
people in the asylum system, will
also be extremely important. And | 2:08:14 | 2:08:20 | |
also with the awareness of first
responders will be another important | 2:08:20 | 2:08:27 | |
change. There are other things that
we will need to look at and discuss | 2:08:27 | 2:08:31 | |
which arose in the debate. I just
wanted to thank the Minister for | 2:08:31 | 2:08:37 | |
that response, and to say to her
that we as an all-party | 2:08:37 | 2:08:43 | |
parliamentary group will continue to
challenge the Government, not | 2:08:43 | 2:08:46 | |
because we wish to try and do
anything underhand, but it is only | 2:08:46 | 2:08:50 | |
by challenge that we will be able to
address what all of us agree is a | 2:08:50 | 2:08:59 | |
heinous crime. As we speak, there
are still unknown thousands of | 2:08:59 | 2:09:05 | |
children, women and men in the
sexual or labour exploitation. It is | 2:09:05 | 2:09:11 | |
2017. It is not 200 years ago when
we had the anti-abolition debate. We | 2:09:11 | 2:09:15 | |
need to do more. The Minister has
made some welcome comments today and | 2:09:15 | 2:09:19 | |
this House will be united in doing
all we can to stamp this out. Thank | 2:09:19 | 2:09:25 | |
you. The question is that this House
has considered the implementation of | 2:09:25 | 2:09:31 | |
the Modern Slavery Act 2015. As many
as are of the opinion, say "aye". To | 2:09:31 | 2:09:34 | |
the contrary, "no". I think the ayes
have it, the ayes have it. We now | 2:09:34 | 2:09:45 | |
come to the backbench debate on
global LGBT rights. | 2:09:45 | 2:09:49 | |
Nick Herbert to move. Thank you,
Madam Deputy Speaker. I'm very | 2:09:49 | 2:09:55 | |
grateful to the Backbench Business
Committee for agreeing to this | 2:09:55 | 2:09:58 | |
debate which has been proposed by
members of the all-party parliament | 2:09:58 | 2:10:02 | |
regrouped on global LGBT rights
which I have the honour to chair. | 2:10:02 | 2:10:07 | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, this is a tale
of two worlds. In one world, as we | 2:10:07 | 2:10:14 | |
saw in this House, we have seen the
near completion of rights for LGBT | 2:10:14 | 2:10:24 | |
people, full recognition in the law,
with some exceptions of course | 2:10:24 | 2:10:29 | |
throughout the United Kingdom,
culminating four years ago with the | 2:10:29 | 2:10:35 | |
passing of same-sex marriage
legislation by overwhelming | 2:10:35 | 2:10:38 | |
majorities in this House and in the
other players. In a 16 year period, | 2:10:38 | 2:10:45 | |
25 countries around the world have
passed same-sex marriage | 2:10:45 | 2:10:49 | |
legislation. Others have legislation
recognising civil partnerships. | 2:10:49 | 2:10:54 | |
Taiwan became the latest this year.
We hope that Australia will follow | 2:10:54 | 2:10:59 | |
suit soon. If that is the will of
the British people. And it is | 2:10:59 | 2:11:06 | |
noticeable but now only Japan of the
G-7 countries does not have | 2:11:06 | 2:11:14 | |
recognition of same-sex marriage.
All the other G-7 countries now do. | 2:11:14 | 2:11:21 | |
Italy has recognition of civil
unions. I will give way to the | 2:11:21 | 2:11:25 | |
honourable member. I thank the
honourable member for giving way and | 2:11:25 | 2:11:28 | |
I congratulate him on securing this
important debate today. He mentioned | 2:11:28 | 2:11:32 | |
Australia and I would add my support
to those campaigning for same-sex | 2:11:32 | 2:11:36 | |
marriage. Australia is a key member
of the Commonwealth and we will be | 2:11:36 | 2:11:41 | |
holding the meeting here in the UK
and I received this morning a card | 2:11:41 | 2:11:45 | |
from the Commonwealth
parliamentarians for but it was a | 2:11:45 | 2:11:47 | |
bit disappointing to not see on this
and mentions specifically of LGBT | 2:11:47 | 2:11:53 | |
plus rights being discussed there
and would he agree that the | 2:11:53 | 2:11:56 | |
parliament errands for is a great
opportunity to raise this issue with | 2:11:56 | 2:12:01 | |
our Commonwealth partners? I
strongly agree with the honourable | 2:12:01 | 2:12:03 | |
gentleman. I think it is important,
not least, because of the health | 2:12:03 | 2:12:07 | |
issues which were also raised as
well as the equality issues on HIV | 2:12:07 | 2:12:15 | |
aids. There is another world as
well. A world in which 75 countries | 2:12:15 | 2:12:22 | |
criminalised same-sex activity
between consenting adults. That | 2:12:22 | 2:12:26 | |
covers 2.9 billion people, 40% of
the world's population live in these | 2:12:26 | 2:12:31 | |
jurisdictions. Over 400 million
people, therefore, live under laws | 2:12:31 | 2:12:37 | |
which punish same-sex activity and
actually punish it with the death | 2:12:37 | 2:12:40 | |
penalty. The particular reason why I
will all-party group was so keen to | 2:12:40 | 2:12:47 | |
secure this debate now, was because
of what happened last month, during | 2:12:47 | 2:12:51 | |
the conference recess in a number of
countries, which give rise to grave | 2:12:51 | 2:12:58 | |
cause for concern about the abuse of
LGBT people. In Azerbaijan, during | 2:12:58 | 2:13:03 | |
the last two weeks of September,
organised police raids lead to mass | 2:13:03 | 2:13:09 | |
arrests of received gay and bisexual
men and trans women in the capital | 2:13:09 | 2:13:15 | |
Baku. The authorities claimed this
was a crackdown on prostitution but | 2:13:15 | 2:13:21 | |
activists claimed LGBT people were
specifically targeted. While in | 2:13:21 | 2:13:26 | |
detention, victims report being
subject to beatings, electric shock | 2:13:26 | 2:13:31 | |
torture, forced medical examinations
and other degrading and ill | 2:13:31 | 2:13:34 | |
treatment. The majority of detainees
were charged with disobeying police | 2:13:34 | 2:13:38 | |
orders which was an administrative
offence sentenced to between five | 2:13:38 | 2:13:42 | |
and 20 days in custody, and the
country's own Ministry of external | 2:13:42 | 2:13:47 | |
affairs stated 83 people were
detained in principle. The | 2:13:47 | 2:13:51 | |
Ambassador of the Republic of
Azerbaijan noted that we were | 2:13:51 | 2:13:55 | |
calling this debate and wrote to me
this week, and I think it is | 2:13:55 | 2:13:59 | |
important that I quote what he says.
He says: I can reassure you that | 2:13:59 | 2:14:04 | |
this was not a concerted effort to
crack down on the LGBT community, | 2:14:04 | 2:14:08 | |
but rather a police action to stop
solicitation of sexual services in | 2:14:08 | 2:14:13 | |
downtown Baku, following complaints
from local residents. It may be that | 2:14:13 | 2:14:17 | |
some within the local police force
acted overzealously and exceeded | 2:14:17 | 2:14:21 | |
them and eight. As soon as the
appropriate authorities were made | 2:14:21 | 2:14:24 | |
aware, the police operation was
stopped and all those detained were | 2:14:24 | 2:14:27 | |
released. I would like to reiterate
that the Azerbaijani constitutes the | 2:14:27 | 2:14:34 | |
Griquas dish and guarantees all
forms of expression and sexual | 2:14:34 | 2:14:38 | |
activity has been decriminalised
since September 2000. | 2:14:38 | 2:14:44 | |
But does not deal properly with the
situation because local groups have | 2:14:44 | 2:14:48 | |
reported since the initial raids,
the authorities continue to | 2:14:48 | 2:14:52 | |
intimidate and harass people they
perceive to be LGBT, and I think it | 2:14:52 | 2:14:56 | |
is very important that this House,
and I hope the Government, will send | 2:14:56 | 2:15:00 | |
a very clear message to the
Azerbaijani government that this | 2:15:00 | 2:15:06 | |
kind of oppression is unacceptable
in the ayes of the global community. | 2:15:06 | 2:15:10 | |
This House heard an urgent question
early on this year about the | 2:15:10 | 2:15:13 | |
terrible situation in Chechnya about
arbitrary arrests, detention and | 2:15:13 | 2:15:20 | |
torture of LGBT people that
continues to take place as part of a | 2:15:20 | 2:15:23 | |
wider crackdown on human rights,
despite the protests which have been | 2:15:23 | 2:15:28 | |
made to the Russian authorities. And
then in Egypt, over 50 people have | 2:15:28 | 2:15:33 | |
been arrested in response to just
this, in response to the flying | 2:15:33 | 2:15:40 | |
rainbow flags at a pop concert in
Cairo. Bataclan loan resulted in | 2:15:40 | 2:15:44 | |
arrests. The victims -- that act
alone resulted in arrests and | 2:15:44 | 2:15:52 | |
victims are charge would debauchery,
indecent and belonging to a banned | 2:15:52 | 2:15:57 | |
group. Many have been sentenced.
Victims report being subject to | 2:15:57 | 2:16:02 | |
beatings, sexual harassment and
forced banal examinations while in | 2:16:02 | 2:16:06 | |
detention. While same-sex conduct is
not expressively forbidding in | 2:16:06 | 2:16:14 | |
Egypt, the parliament is
considering, sexuality with a | 2:16:14 | 2:16:16 | |
proposed punishment of up to 15
years in prison. What is Her | 2:16:16 | 2:16:20 | |
Majesty's government saying to the
Egyptian authorities, to the | 2:16:20 | 2:16:24 | |
Government about this terrible abuse
of gay people, for committing what | 2:16:24 | 2:16:28 | |
we in this country would not regard
as any crime at all but simply the | 2:16:28 | 2:16:37 | |
freedom of expression of flying a
flag? I was very struck by a message | 2:16:37 | 2:16:40 | |
that I was sent by a young gay man
living in Egypt, who attended that | 2:16:40 | 2:16:44 | |
concept and he said: I can hear
those consistent steps coming | 2:16:44 | 2:16:51 | |
closer. Fear, is it happening? Fear,
are they coming for me? This has | 2:16:51 | 2:16:57 | |
been the most common stream of
thought in the past week in Cairo. | 2:16:57 | 2:17:00 | |
The thought of being arrested would
not leave my mind, ever since the | 2:17:00 | 2:17:04 | |
most recent escalation of the state
on its crackdown on LGBT pill the | 2:17:04 | 2:17:10 | |
macro people in Egypt. Fear that has
accompanied me for a lifetime as a | 2:17:10 | 2:17:14 | |
gay man in Egypt. It is
heartbreaking to wake up every day | 2:17:14 | 2:17:16 | |
for a new chapter of fighting for
your rights to exist, just to be. | 2:17:16 | 2:17:27 | |
These are not isolated cases. State
action, in turn, licenses | 2:17:28 | 2:17:34 | |
discrimination at best, violence at
worst, and a climate of fear under | 2:17:34 | 2:17:39 | |
which LGBT people have to live. In
June 2013, the Russian duma | 2:17:39 | 2:17:45 | |
unanimously adopted, and President
Putin signed, a nationwide law | 2:17:45 | 2:17:50 | |
banning distribution of propaganda
for nontraditional sexual relations, | 2:17:50 | 2:17:54 | |
often the excuse for measures which
discriminate against LGBT people. | 2:17:54 | 2:17:59 | |
Since the introduction of that law,
14 countries have considered similar | 2:17:59 | 2:18:04 | |
legislation in Eastern Europe,
Central Asia and Africa. Nigeria, | 2:18:04 | 2:18:08 | |
same-sex marriage prohibitions act,
criminalises the formation, and | 2:18:08 | 2:18:15 | |
support of gay clubs, societies and
organisations, with sentences of up | 2:18:15 | 2:18:19 | |
to ten years in prison. Uganda's
parliament passed a similar | 2:18:19 | 2:18:24 | |
anti-homosexuality act which would
have credited the promotion of | 2:18:24 | 2:18:28 | |
homosexuality by individuals and
organisations, incurring penalties | 2:18:28 | 2:18:31 | |
of up to seven years in prison. That
has been revoked, but in this year, | 2:18:31 | 2:18:38 | |
Uganda's pride had to be cancelled
as a consequence of the actions of | 2:18:38 | 2:18:41 | |
the state and the police, who were
determined that that expression | 2:18:41 | 2:18:46 | |
should not take place. Mr Deputy
Speaker, it is sometimes suggested | 2:18:46 | 2:18:53 | |
that the UK may be guilty of some
kind of neocolonialism, that we are | 2:18:53 | 2:18:59 | |
now seeking to impose our views on
countries in the same way that we | 2:18:59 | 2:19:05 | |
did in the past. And it is true that
40 of the 53 member states in the | 2:19:05 | 2:19:11 | |
Commonwealth, lies to same-sex
activity using legislation inherited | 2:19:11 | 2:19:15 | |
from the British Empire. But I would
argue that our history gives us a | 2:19:15 | 2:19:19 | |
special responsibility to atone for
the measures that we introduced, and | 2:19:19 | 2:19:26 | |
to act. That is a view shared by the
Prime Minister, who I am delighted | 2:19:26 | 2:19:30 | |
to say said last week that on the
world stage the government was | 2:19:30 | 2:19:38 | |
standing up for LGBT rights and
challenging at the highest level | 2:19:38 | 2:19:41 | |
those governments which allow or
inflict discrimination or abuse. The | 2:19:41 | 2:19:46 | |
anti-LGBT laws which remain in some
Commonwealth countries are a legacy | 2:19:46 | 2:19:50 | |
of Britain's colonial past, so the
UK Government has a special | 2:19:50 | 2:19:53 | |
responsibility to help change hearts
and minds. We will ensure these | 2:19:53 | 2:19:58 | |
important issues are discussed at
the Commonwealth Heads of Government | 2:19:58 | 2:20:01 | |
Meeting, which the UK Government is
hosting next April. That is | 2:20:01 | 2:20:05 | |
immensely welcome and only this week
the Commonwealth equality network of | 2:20:05 | 2:20:12 | |
activists and NGOs is meeting in
Malta to discuss how to reverse the | 2:20:12 | 2:20:15 | |
oppression of gay people into many
Commonwealth countries, and that | 2:20:15 | 2:20:17 | |
stand that the Prime Minister has
taken and this government will take | 2:20:17 | 2:20:20 | |
up the CHOGM meeting next year is
very important. After all, what many | 2:20:20 | 2:20:24 | |
of these countries are doing is in
breach of the Commonwealth charter | 2:20:24 | 2:20:27 | |
itself. Indeed, outside the
Commonwealth, every country has | 2:20:27 | 2:20:33 | |
signed up to the United Nations
declaration of human rights, rights | 2:20:33 | 2:20:37 | |
which guarantee liberty, freedom of
expression, freedom from torture and | 2:20:37 | 2:20:40 | |
oppression. That is why it is so
important that we continue to | 2:20:40 | 2:20:44 | |
support the United Nations'
institutions, the campaign is that | 2:20:44 | 2:20:50 | |
they run on, for instance, they're
free and equal campaign, and other | 2:20:50 | 2:20:54 | |
multinational initiatives, such as
the equal rights coalition, which | 2:20:54 | 2:20:57 | |
was launched last year with the UK
Government's support and now | 2:20:57 | 2:21:01 | |
incorporates 29 governments who
cooperate and share information. | 2:21:01 | 2:21:06 | |
That organisation needs begin
tingling active support of the UK | 2:21:06 | 2:21:08 | |
Government. I would argue that the
UK Government, which has done a good | 2:21:08 | 2:21:14 | |
deal in this area, can do much more.
I welcome the Prime Minister's | 2:21:14 | 2:21:19 | |
commitment to a high-level challenge
that she set out. The all-party | 2:21:19 | 2:21:25 | |
produced a report last year and made
a number of specific recommendations | 2:21:25 | 2:21:28 | |
for what the government could do.
First, to adopt a cross departmental | 2:21:28 | 2:21:34 | |
strategy, to ensure that all parts
of the government are co-ordinated | 2:21:34 | 2:21:39 | |
and are taking the necessary steps
to take a stance and promote the | 2:21:39 | 2:21:45 | |
values we think are important in
this country. There are multiple | 2:21:45 | 2:21:49 | |
actors. There is the involvement of
the apartment for foreign and | 2:21:49 | 2:21:54 | |
international development, the
Foreign Office, and the Home Office, | 2:21:54 | 2:21:57 | |
and it is important they are
co-ordinated and I welcome the | 2:21:57 | 2:22:02 | |
Minister's presence here, as a
minister in a domestic UK department | 2:22:02 | 2:22:07 | |
but nevertheless recognising his
responsibility, crosscutting, for | 2:22:07 | 2:22:10 | |
these issues. That coordination is
important. Secondly, perhaps one of | 2:22:10 | 2:22:15 | |
the most important thing is, the
funding that can be provided for | 2:22:15 | 2:22:19 | |
LGBT activist groups on the ground.
These are vulnerable, fragile | 2:22:19 | 2:22:23 | |
groups, run by very brave activists
in these countries, in sub-Saharan | 2:22:23 | 2:22:27 | |
Africa, in Russia and in the
countries which we have and will be | 2:22:27 | 2:22:31 | |
discussing. And they need support.
The support they can be given by, | 2:22:31 | 2:22:36 | |
yes, of course, private individuals
and foundations but also by the | 2:22:36 | 2:22:40 | |
British government, is immensely
important. Those funding streams | 2:22:40 | 2:22:45 | |
which can be directed through
British High Commission sent | 2:22:45 | 2:22:48 | |
embassies is very important those
are maintained. Thirdly, we should | 2:22:48 | 2:22:54 | |
ensure that safe routes are given to
people fleeing persecution, | 2:22:54 | 2:23:00 | |
particularly if they are applying
for asylum in countries like Canada | 2:23:00 | 2:23:04 | |
and other European countries. I
thank the honourable gentleman | 2:23:04 | 2:23:17 | |
forgiving way. Does he agree that on
funding it is great to see so many | 2:23:17 | 2:23:21 | |
corporate organisations supporting
the big celebrations across the UK | 2:23:21 | 2:23:27 | |
in globally but they need to think
about how they can direct funding | 2:23:27 | 2:23:29 | |
and support to local groups across
the UK and across the world? I thank | 2:23:29 | 2:23:35 | |
the honourable lady for that point
which she has made very effectively. | 2:23:35 | 2:23:39 | |
I will draw my remarks to a
conclusion because others wish to | 2:23:39 | 2:23:42 | |
get in. My central point is that
these are terrible abuses of LGBT | 2:23:42 | 2:23:47 | |
people that we see globally but
change can be affected and we should | 2:23:47 | 2:23:51 | |
not be despondent about that. In
Uganda, partly because of the | 2:23:51 | 2:23:56 | |
influence of the World Bank that was
considering granting an important | 2:23:56 | 2:24:00 | |
loan to Uganda, the President was
prevailed upon not to implement the | 2:24:00 | 2:24:04 | |
law that the parliament had passed
that would have oppressed gay | 2:24:04 | 2:24:06 | |
people. In Belize, legal challenge
has resulted in protection for LGBT | 2:24:06 | 2:24:13 | |
people. In Mozambique, legislation
has affected the same thing. We can | 2:24:13 | 2:24:18 | |
effect change, and the United
Kingdom, in conclusion, has an | 2:24:18 | 2:24:22 | |
important role in this respect. We
are the fifth largest economy in the | 2:24:22 | 2:24:26 | |
world. We have a global reach, very
important historic ties across the | 2:24:26 | 2:24:31 | |
world, not least through the
Commonwealth. We have one of the | 2:24:31 | 2:24:35 | |
largest aid budgets in the world,
and the massive opportunity to | 2:24:35 | 2:24:39 | |
exercise soft power and influence.
In Cairo, the crackdown on gay | 2:24:39 | 2:24:46 | |
people was, began when they flew the
rainbow flag. And the flying of the | 2:24:46 | 2:24:51 | |
rainbow flag over our own
Parliament, over our own government | 2:24:51 | 2:24:56 | |
buildings, sends an important
signal. An attachment to freedom, a | 2:24:56 | 2:24:59 | |
belief in liberty and equality. We
should not underestimate that taking | 2:24:59 | 2:25:03 | |
these stances is not trite, not
trivial. It matters. It matters in | 2:25:03 | 2:25:09 | |
the eyes of the communities and
activists looking for our support in | 2:25:09 | 2:25:12 | |
other countries. People will be
watching this debate and they want | 2:25:12 | 2:25:16 | |
to know that this house supports
these communities and that the | 2:25:16 | 2:25:20 | |
British government supports these
communities. Thousands of activists, | 2:25:20 | 2:25:24 | |
millions of people. Let freedom ring
for them. The question is this house | 2:25:24 | 2:25:30 | |
has considered global LGBT rights.
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I want | 2:25:30 | 2:25:38 | |
to start by paying tribute to the
honourable member for Aaron Doran | 2:25:38 | 2:25:42 | |
and the South downs for very
powerful speech. He has been a tall | 2:25:42 | 2:25:47 | |
order force in terms of championing
this issue and I hope that with | 2:25:47 | 2:25:52 | |
genuine cross-party co-operation on
this there is absolutely no reason | 2:25:52 | 2:25:55 | |
why we shouldn't. I also want to pay
tribute to the countries and | 2:25:55 | 2:25:59 | |
activists in the countries that have
made progress on these issues, but | 2:25:59 | 2:26:03 | |
also to the very brave activists
that in some cases even lost their | 2:26:03 | 2:26:07 | |
lives because of standing up for
LGBT rights. I think of David Kato | 2:26:07 | 2:26:14 | |
in Uganda, who was brutally murdered
in 2011. And we know from the | 2:26:14 | 2:26:19 | |
reaction of the Ugandan government,
there were newspaper headlines more | 2:26:19 | 2:26:23 | |
or less calling for people to Lynch
and hunt down homosexual men in the | 2:26:23 | 2:26:29 | |
streets. There was very much a
climate of fear, so it was | 2:26:29 | 2:26:34 | |
incredibly brave of him and his
successor to speak up. I know when I | 2:26:34 | 2:26:41 | |
met his successor, he said the
handful of openly gay people in | 2:26:41 | 2:26:45 | |
Uganda could almost be counted on
the fingers of two hands, because so | 2:26:45 | 2:26:49 | |
few people were willing to come
forward. We then had the proposals | 2:26:49 | 2:26:53 | |
to introduce the death penalty for
people. Quite often this debate is | 2:26:53 | 2:26:57 | |
couched in terms of, we don't mind
what you do in the privacy of your | 2:26:57 | 2:27:01 | |
homes, but it is when you promote it
and start talking about these issues | 2:27:01 | 2:27:04 | |
in front of children. I think that
is a pernicious angle to take | 2:27:04 | 2:27:09 | |
because it does, in effect, prevent
people leading their lives freely | 2:27:09 | 2:27:13 | |
and openly and free from fear of
persecution. Another activist in | 2:27:13 | 2:27:22 | |
Cameroon was murdered, again in
2013. He spoke, just before he was | 2:27:22 | 2:27:27 | |
murdered, of a climate of hatred and
bigotry in his country which extends | 2:27:27 | 2:27:31 | |
to high levels in government and
reassures homophobes they can get | 2:27:31 | 2:27:34 | |
away with these crimes. That was two
weeks before he was tortured and | 2:27:34 | 2:27:38 | |
murdered. The honourable member has
a ready spoken eloquently about some | 2:27:38 | 2:27:42 | |
of the issues that have been, the
persecution that had been suffered | 2:27:42 | 2:27:49 | |
by activists in countries such as
Egypt and Uganda, and the issue | 2:27:49 | 2:27:54 | |
about the suppression of Pride last
year. I want to talk about what | 2:27:54 | 2:27:58 | |
leveraged we have, and certainly our
membership of the Commonwealth | 2:27:58 | 2:28:02 | |
should give us enormous influence. I
spoke at the Commonwealth | 2:28:02 | 2:28:08 | |
Parliamentary Association conference
when I was shadow minister of human | 2:28:08 | 2:28:10 | |
rights in the Foreign Office a few
years ago, and there is this tricky | 2:28:10 | 2:28:13 | |
issue where it did feel slightly
like people from the white | 2:28:13 | 2:28:18 | |
countries, to put it crudely, were
preaching to the people from the | 2:28:18 | 2:28:22 | |
African countries. Somebody actually
said to me, you came over to our | 2:28:22 | 2:28:27 | |
country and told us homosexuality
was wrong, you sent the | 2:28:27 | 2:28:31 | |
missionaries, you preached the
Bible, you showed us where it said | 2:28:31 | 2:28:34 | |
these customs and practices, which
were tolerated in Uganda back then, | 2:28:34 | 2:28:39 | |
and in other countries, you said it
was wrong, and now you are coming | 2:28:39 | 2:28:42 | |
back to us and telling us, hang on,
you have now got to start accepting | 2:28:42 | 2:28:46 | |
our norms. The concern that you are
seen as a colonial force in doing | 2:28:46 | 2:28:52 | |
that is very real. The issue how
this fits into the debate about | 2:28:52 | 2:28:56 | |
freedom of religion and belief,
something we have had in this house | 2:28:56 | 2:28:59 | |
before, yes, people should be free
to express religious views and | 2:28:59 | 2:29:02 | |
beliefs, but that should not come,
they should not be able as a result | 2:29:02 | 2:29:08 | |
of expressing those views to promote
persecution of homosexuality, or | 2:29:08 | 2:29:15 | |
bigotry towards people from the LGBT
community. Too often it is used to | 2:29:15 | 2:29:20 | |
excuse that. The other leveraged we
have is through our trading | 2:29:20 | 2:29:23 | |
relations with other countries. In
autumn 2013, the Coalition | 2:29:23 | 2:29:29 | |
Government launched with a great
fanfare its business and human | 2:29:29 | 2:29:32 | |
rights action plan. The then Foreign
Secretary spoke of how he wanted to | 2:29:32 | 2:29:39 | |
mesh the two, the business and human
rights should not be separate, it | 2:29:39 | 2:29:43 | |
should be integral. It was almost an
ethical foreign policy. Since then | 2:29:43 | 2:29:48 | |
it has been disappointing that the
action plan appears to have been | 2:29:48 | 2:29:51 | |
shelved. It is not spoken about. The
permanent Secretary to the Foreign | 2:29:51 | 2:29:56 | |
Office gave evidence to the select
committee two years ago, the foreign | 2:29:56 | 2:30:01 | |
affairs select committee, and
admitted human rights were no long a | 2:30:01 | 2:30:04 | |
priority for his department, saying
that far more resources were going | 2:30:04 | 2:30:07 | |
into pursuing trade deals. They
dropped specific branches of human | 2:30:07 | 2:30:12 | |
rights activity in favour of some
very vague priorities. Human rights | 2:30:12 | 2:30:17 | |
groups described his comments as
being as astonishing as they were | 2:30:17 | 2:30:20 | |
alarming. This was before Brexit.
Now that we are entering a world in | 2:30:20 | 2:30:26 | |
which we will be pursuing more
vigorously trade deals and new | 2:30:26 | 2:30:29 | |
business relationships with overseas
countries, I think human rights | 2:30:29 | 2:30:33 | |
absolutely need to be back at the
heart of those conversations. I have | 2:30:33 | 2:30:37 | |
asked so many questions of ministers
about what they say when they go to | 2:30:37 | 2:30:41 | |
countries like Saudi Arabia about
human rights and I get vague answers | 2:30:41 | 2:30:44 | |
back saying, nothing was off the
table, a range of issues were | 2:30:44 | 2:30:48 | |
discussed. Clearly, if they were
discussed it was left to a minor | 2:30:48 | 2:30:52 | |
official to mention it in passing at
a meeting so they could say they had | 2:30:52 | 2:30:55 | |
ticked the box. It is disappointing
that the business and human rights | 2:30:55 | 2:30:59 | |
action plan appears to have been
sidelined and is not on the | 2:30:59 | 2:31:03 | |
international trade Secretary's
radar at all. That is one of the | 2:31:03 | 2:31:06 | |
things we need to push, that when we
go to countries with dreadful human | 2:31:06 | 2:31:10 | |
rights records and dreadful records
on LGBT issues in particular, we | 2:31:10 | 2:31:15 | |
need to be having that conversation
and put it on the table and say it | 2:31:15 | 2:31:18 | |
is not acceptable. Even to the
extent that people from British | 2:31:18 | 2:31:23 | |
companies, LGBT employees, going to
work in these countries with | 2:31:23 | 2:31:26 | |
dreadful human rights records are
not safe either. So I hope this is | 2:31:26 | 2:31:30 | |
an issue we can take up as a group. | 2:31:30 | 2:31:36 | |
It is a great honour to follow the
honourable lady and I'd like to | 2:31:36 | 2:31:41 | |
congratulate my honourable friend
for moving this motion. We have come | 2:31:41 | 2:31:44 | |
a long way over the years in this
country and indeed in this | 2:31:44 | 2:31:48 | |
Parliament and indeed myself. I
remember growing up in Swansea and | 2:31:48 | 2:31:56 | |
wondering whether it was braver of
me to come out as a conservative or | 2:31:56 | 2:31:59 | |
gay. Anyway, I have tried both and
it doesn't seem to have done me any | 2:31:59 | 2:32:06 | |
harm. If one looks at the journey we
have made in this Parliament, we | 2:32:06 | 2:32:11 | |
have more openly gay Members of
Parliament here than in any other | 2:32:11 | 2:32:15 | |
Parliament in the world, I think
that's a fantastic thing for which | 2:32:15 | 2:32:19 | |
we ought to be proud and I
congratulate the highest percentage | 2:32:19 | 2:32:25 | |
of openly gay MPs amongst us. I was
once asked, when will you become | 2:32:25 | 2:32:37 | |
Speaker of the House of Commons? And
I said, well... And he said, you | 2:32:37 | 2:32:41 | |
would be the first gay Speaker. And
I said, I did think so, Prime | 2:32:41 | 2:32:46 | |
Minister. I suspect there have been
a few others since. And it just... | 2:32:46 | 2:32:54 | |
Well, we know there was at least one
Deputy Speaker who was gay because | 2:32:54 | 2:32:57 | |
it was in 2010 when I was in the
Speaker's Department when we had a | 2:32:57 | 2:33:02 | |
fantastic reception when I did come
out as gay and I said to him, the | 2:33:02 | 2:33:07 | |
only thing more gay than me and the
apartments. And I think for each and | 2:33:07 | 2:33:13 | |
every one of us that have come out
as gay and those who are not gay but | 2:33:13 | 2:33:19 | |
speak up for LGBT rights, we know
there are people living in | 2:33:19 | 2:33:25 | |
persecution and fear about being gay
and it's not about the fulfilment of | 2:33:25 | 2:33:30 | |
their lives in some cases, it is
that they are fearful for their | 2:33:30 | 2:33:34 | |
lives. And that is absolutely
appalling. We have heard the number | 2:33:34 | 2:33:38 | |
of countries where it is actually a
capital offence for being gay and | 2:33:38 | 2:33:43 | |
we'll read in our newspapers, sadly,
and too many occasions about people | 2:33:43 | 2:33:46 | |
getting pushed off the top of tall
buildings simply because they are | 2:33:46 | 2:33:51 | |
gay. I remember a debate talking
about two young people I had read | 2:33:51 | 2:33:57 | |
about in one Sunday magazine who
were in Iran, they were about 16 and | 2:33:57 | 2:34:03 | |
17, teenagers, and they were strung
up for being gay and I remember at a | 2:34:03 | 2:34:11 | |
conference confronting the Iranian
delegation and I said, why is it | 2:34:11 | 2:34:15 | |
that young gay people are being
executed in Iran and they said, | 2:34:15 | 2:34:19 | |
well, if it is done in private, then
of course nobody knows but if it is | 2:34:19 | 2:34:23 | |
public, they will be tortured. They
actually used the watch tortured. I | 2:34:23 | 2:34:27 | |
was so angry and I said, yes, you
tortured them first and then you | 2:34:27 | 2:34:31 | |
hang them. For that, I just find it
totally unforgivable. I remember, of | 2:34:31 | 2:34:39 | |
course, my party has not always been
liberal towards LGBT rights. They | 2:34:39 | 2:34:47 | |
always had that question they asked
at selection meetings, is there | 2:34:47 | 2:34:52 | |
anything in your cupboard? I
remember Alan Clark was asked that | 2:34:52 | 2:34:55 | |
question and he said I could not get
anything more in my cupboard. I | 2:34:55 | 2:34:59 | |
thought that was rather brave of him
and he still got selected, of | 2:34:59 | 2:35:02 | |
course. But the question is not
asked any more. Not only have the | 2:35:02 | 2:35:06 | |
Conservative Party, long way on
these issues, I think it's almost | 2:35:06 | 2:35:08 | |
compulsory to be gay to get
selected. Not quite. My right | 2:35:08 | 2:35:16 | |
honourable friend mentioned Taiwan.
I am chairman of the all-party | 2:35:16 | 2:35:18 | |
Taiwan group and I was therefore it
a couple of months ago as a guest | 2:35:18 | 2:35:24 | |
and I am proud of what we have done
in Taiwan and we know Australia | 2:35:24 | 2:35:28 | |
going through the same issues now
and I believe the Chief Executive | 2:35:28 | 2:35:31 | |
officer of Qantas has just been made
the most influential LGBT person in | 2:35:31 | 2:35:35 | |
the world. For speaking up rather
briefly because there are a lot of | 2:35:35 | 2:35:43 | |
CEOs who sadly are afraid, for
whatever reason, to come out as gay. | 2:35:43 | 2:35:49 | |
And we know it is the same in the
world of sport and in football | 2:35:49 | 2:35:52 | |
particularly. And I just wish that
more sports men who are gay, like | 2:35:52 | 2:35:58 | |
Tom Daley, would be as brave as him
to come out. Because that would send | 2:35:58 | 2:36:02 | |
a massive signal as well. A lot of
these Commonwealth countries, they | 2:36:02 | 2:36:06 | |
are obsessed with football and if
only more of them would be prepared | 2:36:06 | 2:36:09 | |
to do that, it would send absolutely
the right signals. I am also proud | 2:36:09 | 2:36:14 | |
of the fact that within the world of
politics, we have had the former | 2:36:14 | 2:36:20 | |
Prime Ministers of countries in
Iceland, Belgium, Luxembourg, | 2:36:20 | 2:36:24 | |
currently Ireland and Serbia, who
have all been gay. And so, I think | 2:36:24 | 2:36:29 | |
that again send the right signals
but I have to tell the House, I have | 2:36:29 | 2:36:33 | |
just come back from Russia where we
decided in the human rights | 2:36:33 | 2:36:37 | |
subcommittee of a conference to
raise at the Geneva conference next | 2:36:37 | 2:36:41 | |
year the issue of what Parliaments
can do to stop dissemination on | 2:36:41 | 2:36:49 | |
LGBT+ issues. The chairperson was
from Botswana and we were debating | 2:36:49 | 2:36:54 | |
this issue and it was wonderful. A
number of countries spoke up on that | 2:36:54 | 2:37:01 | |
half of it, including MPs from Cuba,
Malaysia, to say, yeah, let's talk | 2:37:01 | 2:37:05 | |
about this, it is an important
issue. And it got past. But right at | 2:37:05 | 2:37:10 | |
the last moment, it was defeated in
the full plenary, when most people | 2:37:10 | 2:37:15 | |
had then started to go home and
countries like Iran, Uganda and | 2:37:15 | 2:37:20 | |
Morocco were banging the table
saying, this cannot be discussed or | 2:37:20 | 2:37:25 | |
deleted. That is an appalling thing,
that politicians from these | 2:37:25 | 2:37:29 | |
countries and a number of others
were banging the table and saying, | 2:37:29 | 2:37:32 | |
they were not even prepared to
discuss discrimination of LGBT+ | 2:37:32 | 2:37:38 | |
issues in what they're Parliaments
can do. That just shows you how far | 2:37:38 | 2:37:42 | |
we have got to go. And what was that
incident in the UAE and the other | 2:37:42 | 2:37:49 | |
ended up being prosecuted for
bumping into somebody and touching | 2:37:49 | 2:37:51 | |
them on the hip? Come on! This is
the 21st century! Fortunately, he is | 2:37:51 | 2:38:02 | |
home now but I cannot imagine there
are too many people wanting to go | 2:38:02 | 2:38:06 | |
there in future. I will give way. It
is not just LGBT people that might | 2:38:06 | 2:38:15 | |
not want to go there but others may
think, this is not acceptable, like | 2:38:15 | 2:38:19 | |
myself. Extremely grateful to my
honourable friend for saying that. | 2:38:19 | 2:38:26 | |
It sends a strong signal to the
United Arab Emirates and perhaps | 2:38:26 | 2:38:31 | |
other countries equally thinking of
that. I want to finish on the WHO | 2:38:31 | 2:38:36 | |
and that most appalling decision of
there's the other day, what did they | 2:38:36 | 2:38:39 | |
think they were doing, trying to
make Robert Mugabe a Goodwill | 2:38:39 | 2:38:43 | |
Ambassador? It is not just on the
health issues but if one looks at | 2:38:43 | 2:38:46 | |
the way he has treated LGBT+ issues
in his own country, with the stigma | 2:38:46 | 2:38:51 | |
of being gay meaning that many
people are afraid to even get tested | 2:38:51 | 2:38:55 | |
and are condemned to death because
they are not given the treatment | 2:38:55 | 2:38:58 | |
they need. I am delighted they
change their decision at the last, | 2:38:58 | 2:39:04 | |
well, after three days. Clearly,
they listened to the international | 2:39:04 | 2:39:07 | |
community but it did send the wrong
signals and I do hope they will | 2:39:07 | 2:39:11 | |
think again and as far as the pride
flag is concerned, when I asked for | 2:39:11 | 2:39:14 | |
the flag to be flown from every High
Commission at Embassy, I was told we | 2:39:14 | 2:39:19 | |
couldn't do it because in many cases
we only have one flagpole and there | 2:39:19 | 2:39:23 | |
is not enough room for two. We do it
in Whitehall, we double flag their | 2:39:23 | 2:39:28 | |
figurehead the minister, in summing
up, we'll be able to tell us that in | 2:39:28 | 2:39:32 | |
future, or Gay Pride week, the gay
pride flag will fly from every | 2:39:32 | 2:39:36 | |
flagpole in the High Commissions at
embassies throughout the world. | 2:39:36 | 2:39:42 | |
Thank you, a pleasure to follow my
fellow member of the International | 2:39:42 | 2:39:45 | |
development committee. Can I welcome
today's debate and thank the package | 2:39:45 | 2:39:50 | |
Business Committee for current
account? I congratulate the | 2:39:50 | 2:39:54 | |
honourable gentleman from Aaron
Doran South Downs and in particular | 2:39:54 | 2:39:58 | |
the key range of NGOs, both based in
the UK and abroad and global ones | 2:39:58 | 2:40:02 | |
like Amnesty International, for
their assistance? Next year marks | 2:40:02 | 2:40:08 | |
the anniversary, 30th anniversary of
Section 28, just three decades ago, | 2:40:08 | 2:40:12 | |
this Parliament, this Chamber,
carried discriminatory legislation | 2:40:12 | 2:40:16 | |
and I think we can learn something
from the past 30 years because after | 2:40:16 | 2:40:22 | |
Section 28 was passed, you saw a
renewal of LGBT organisations in | 2:40:22 | 2:40:27 | |
this country, the formation of the
Stonewall group, lesbian and gay | 2:40:27 | 2:40:30 | |
organisations in our trade union
movement and Lesbian and Gay | 2:40:30 | 2:40:34 | |
campaigns within political parties
and the Labour campaign for lesbian | 2:40:34 | 2:40:38 | |
and gay rights, now known as LGBT
labour, plays a critical role in | 2:40:38 | 2:40:42 | |
what went on to be Labour's 1997
manifesto. And there are lessons | 2:40:42 | 2:40:46 | |
from that experience here in the UK.
I believe, for this debate today. | 2:40:46 | 2:40:53 | |
Because what happened here was that
this place listened to LGBT | 2:40:53 | 2:40:57 | |
communities themselves. And that, I
believe, needs to be our starting | 2:40:57 | 2:41:03 | |
point when looking at global LGBT
rights. In the briefing the | 2:41:03 | 2:41:08 | |
honourable gentleman arranged
earlier, somebody said, change has | 2:41:08 | 2:41:11 | |
to come from below. And in a world
where there are still 13 countries | 2:41:11 | 2:41:15 | |
where being gay is punishable by
death, 75 countries where same-sex | 2:41:15 | 2:41:19 | |
contact remains a criminal offence,
the challenges are enormous. Can I | 2:41:19 | 2:41:27 | |
welcome the Department for
International Development's policy | 2:41:27 | 2:41:29 | |
paper on LGBT rights published last
year? In particular, the focus in | 2:41:29 | 2:41:33 | |
the paper, firstly on the
realisation of human rights | 2:41:33 | 2:41:39 | |
underpins sustainable development
and secondly, importantly, we need | 2:41:39 | 2:41:41 | |
to identify engage with the southern
voices that are beginning to emerge | 2:41:41 | 2:41:47 | |
on LGBT issues. Two years ago, the
world agreed the sustainable | 2:41:47 | 2:41:52 | |
development goals and the team is,
leave no one behind, inclusion must | 2:41:52 | 2:42:00 | |
include non-discrimination. We need
the ability to reach all | 2:42:00 | 2:42:03 | |
communities, including LGBT
communities. I thank my honourable | 2:42:03 | 2:42:09 | |
friend for giving way and he's
making a powerful Speech. Will he | 2:42:09 | 2:42:12 | |
agree with me that it is crucial
when we look at the work, we | 2:42:12 | 2:42:17 | |
specifically looked at the LGBT+
community in developing countries, | 2:42:17 | 2:42:27 | |
particularly when American pulling
out of bilateral and multilateral | 2:42:27 | 2:42:30 | |
eight? That is an important point
speaks to a broader issue, which is | 2:42:30 | 2:42:38 | |
about the availability of relatively
small amounts of funding for local | 2:42:38 | 2:42:42 | |
organisations working on HIV and
aids or a quality issues on the | 2:42:42 | 2:42:47 | |
ground. This is an international
issue raised across the full breadth | 2:42:47 | 2:42:52 | |
of their work. I think it has
resonance for today's debate. Can I | 2:42:52 | 2:43:05 | |
praise the staff in regard of the
work they do on this as well? This | 2:43:05 | 2:43:09 | |
is a tricky debate. Some people will
say, how come we are giving aid to | 2:43:09 | 2:43:15 | |
these countries, whose Government
and then acting so appallingly to | 2:43:15 | 2:43:19 | |
their LGBT communities? Should we
not be cutting a? And I want to | 2:43:19 | 2:43:23 | |
really urge caution against such an
approach. Cutting support for | 2:43:23 | 2:43:27 | |
malaria programmes in the poorest
countries of Africa does not help | 2:43:27 | 2:43:31 | |
LGBT rights. Cutting back support
for school programmes are some of | 2:43:31 | 2:43:37 | |
the poorest countries of Africa does
not help LGBT rights. What we need | 2:43:37 | 2:43:40 | |
to do is engage with civil society,
both here and on the ground in the | 2:43:40 | 2:43:48 | |
countries concerned. That sort of
engagement would be fruitful. Can I | 2:43:48 | 2:43:52 | |
welcome the appointment by the UN of
an independent expert on sexual | 2:43:52 | 2:43:59 | |
orientation and identity? He has an
important role to play. His position | 2:43:59 | 2:44:04 | |
was challenged and there was a vote
last year, 84-77, to allow him to | 2:44:04 | 2:44:10 | |
continue, 77 countries did not want
him to Taiwan to congratulate our | 2:44:10 | 2:44:14 | |
Government for the leading role the
UK played in defending his | 2:44:14 | 2:44:18 | |
appointments, but also the
Government of South Africa and | 2:44:18 | 2:44:22 | |
several Caribbean countries that
stood out against the pressure to | 2:44:22 | 2:44:24 | |
try to get rid of this particular
position? Can I contribute to the | 2:44:24 | 2:44:29 | |
role of the trade unions here and
internationally in the struggle for | 2:44:29 | 2:44:32 | |
LGBT rights? LGBT rights workers'
rights and next week, Public | 2:44:32 | 2:44:42 | |
services International education
International will host their fourth | 2:44:42 | 2:44:44 | |
LGBT Forum in Geneva. The crucial
issues of rights in the workplace, | 2:44:44 | 2:44:48 | |
violence against people in the
workplace but also trade unions in | 2:44:48 | 2:44:51 | |
the role more broadly in society in
making the case for equality and | 2:44:51 | 2:44:56 | |
against discrimination. The
honourable gentleman spoke about | 2:44:56 | 2:45:00 | |
Chechnya and I think many of us are
deeply concerned about elements | 2:45:00 | 2:45:03 | |
there in recent months. Last week,
human rights watch highlighted the | 2:45:03 | 2:45:06 | |
case of one individual who was
confined for 12 days in a dark | 2:45:06 | 2:45:13 | |
basement by the regime. The example
of Uganda has already been | 2:45:13 | 2:45:18 | |
described. A recent daily newspaper
front page and you said, exposed, | 2:45:18 | 2:45:23 | |
Uganda's top promos with photographs
of allegedly gay men. -- top Homos. | 2:45:23 | 2:45:37 | |
Tragically, this year they were not
allowed to let us think of those | 2:45:37 | 2:45:40 | |
sisters and brothers in Uganda. I
want to say something today about | 2:45:40 | 2:45:46 | |
Tanzania because a capital of
concerns that has been raised by | 2:45:46 | 2:45:50 | |
various organisations, including the
International HIV and aids Alliance | 2:45:50 | 2:45:53 | |
and the most recent incident was
last week when 13 activists and | 2:45:53 | 2:45:58 | |
lawyers were arrested in Tanzania
for trying to challenge the ban on | 2:45:58 | 2:46:02 | |
drop-in centres that serve
communities at risk of HIV. These 13 | 2:46:02 | 2:46:08 | |
were accused of promoting
homosexuality. They're still in | 2:46:08 | 2:46:13 | |
detention. Can I urge the Minister
to take to his colleagues in the | 2:46:13 | 2:46:17 | |
Foreign Office the vital importance
of the UK raising the cases of these | 2:46:17 | 2:46:22 | |
imprisoned people? The honourable
gentleman spoke about Iran. We know | 2:46:22 | 2:46:26 | |
Iran is a country that still
executes people simply for the crime | 2:46:26 | 2:46:29 | |
of being LGBT. | 2:46:29 | 2:46:36 | |
Can I urge the Minister to press
those countries like Iran that do | 2:46:36 | 2:46:40 | |
that to stop using the death penalty
against LGBT people? Most of the | 2:46:40 | 2:46:45 | |
examples I have given are from
Russia, Africa and the Middle East | 2:46:45 | 2:46:48 | |
but I want to say something about
the United States of America. | 2:46:48 | 2:46:53 | |
Resident Trump's decision to ban
transgender people from the US and | 2:46:53 | 2:46:58 | |
is an enormous shame and one I hope
we can condemn on a cross-party | 2:46:58 | 2:47:03 | |
basis. I pay tribute to the chairman
of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in | 2:47:03 | 2:47:07 | |
America for his positive, measured
response to President Trump's | 2:47:07 | 2:47:11 | |
actions and I urge our government to
do all that it can to press | 2:47:11 | 2:47:15 | |
President Trump to think again on
his attempt to ban trans people from | 2:47:15 | 2:47:19 | |
the Armed Forces. But this is not
the only incident of greater | 2:47:19 | 2:47:25 | |
homophobia and trans phobia in
American politics and policy. | 2:47:25 | 2:47:30 | |
Recently, the United States voted
against a UN Human Rights Council | 2:47:30 | 2:47:34 | |
resolution that simply condemned the
death penalty being used against | 2:47:34 | 2:47:38 | |
people cos they are LGBT. President
Obama left a positive legacy on LGBT | 2:47:38 | 2:47:45 | |
rights which, tragically, President
Trump is doing at the moment. That | 2:47:45 | 2:47:48 | |
leaves a vacuum in terms of global
LGBT rights. I hope the United | 2:47:48 | 2:47:54 | |
Kingdom, working with like-minded
countries, will play the leadership | 2:47:54 | 2:47:56 | |
role that we should, to ensure we do
not slip back but instead move | 2:47:56 | 2:48:01 | |
forward to global LGBT equality.
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I want | 2:48:01 | 2:48:09 | |
to pay, limits to my right
honourable friend for securing this | 2:48:09 | 2:48:12 | |
debate and for the leadership he
gives to the all-party group, and | 2:48:12 | 2:48:15 | |
the fact that he has taken a rather
more voluntary process to actually | 2:48:15 | 2:48:20 | |
taking itself onto the back benches
to champion the cause is like this, | 2:48:20 | 2:48:23 | |
to which the quality of his
leadership we all benefit from. My | 2:48:23 | 2:48:31 | |
rather more compulsory route to this
process means I have the freedom to | 2:48:31 | 2:48:35 | |
get engaged in these kinds of
issues. But they are incredibly | 2:48:35 | 2:48:42 | |
important. I want to reflect on why
this issue is so important. What has | 2:48:42 | 2:48:48 | |
brought us here is the headline
issues of what is happening in | 2:48:48 | 2:48:52 | |
Azerbaijan, Egypt and Chechnya,
which has been pointed out by | 2:48:52 | 2:48:57 | |
previous speakers. But you only have
to go online to look for a gay man | 2:48:57 | 2:49:01 | |
being lynched in Nigeria, to see
horrific videos of mob justice | 2:49:01 | 2:49:06 | |
there, and we have seen what happens
with Isis's administration of | 2:49:06 | 2:49:13 | |
justice to gay people being heaved
off tall buildings. I want to | 2:49:13 | 2:49:17 | |
reflect briefly on some of the
headline issues in Chechnya, because | 2:49:17 | 2:49:23 | |
some of those cases are truly
appalling. The honourable gentleman | 2:49:23 | 2:49:28 | |
talked about one man and the
evidence he has given. He was lucky | 2:49:28 | 2:49:36 | |
enough to survive. There is the
story of a pop star who went back to | 2:49:36 | 2:49:41 | |
Chechnya, to his sister's wedding,
on the 8th of August. And by all the | 2:49:41 | 2:49:46 | |
accounts I am able to get hold of,
he was arrested within three hours | 2:49:46 | 2:49:50 | |
and was dead within ten. This is a
man who has had his picture taken | 2:49:50 | 2:49:57 | |
with the leader of Chechnya riding
on his popularity. If it can happen | 2:49:57 | 2:50:03 | |
to him in Chechnya, then we should
draw our own conclusions about just | 2:50:03 | 2:50:10 | |
how appalling the situation is, and
our expectations of the Russian | 2:50:10 | 2:50:14 | |
authority addressing this. But it is
these headline atrocities that have | 2:50:14 | 2:50:22 | |
brought us here today, and the scale
of arrests in Azerbaijan, Egypt and | 2:50:22 | 2:50:28 | |
the direct state repression. But it
is not just those issues and | 2:50:28 | 2:50:32 | |
individuals involved in those
instances, who are counted in their | 2:50:32 | 2:50:35 | |
hundreds. It is actually the number
of people affected by the issues we | 2:50:35 | 2:50:41 | |
are talking about today go, in terms
of direct oppression, too many | 2:50:41 | 2:50:46 | |
hundreds of thousands of people in
relationships they don't want to be | 2:50:46 | 2:50:49 | |
in, of corrective rape, of forced
marriage is. It is millions of | 2:50:49 | 2:50:57 | |
people. In the case of India, to 100
million people who, because of their | 2:50:57 | 2:51:02 | |
laws, are simply not able to be
themselves. Of course. Would my | 2:51:02 | 2:51:08 | |
honourable friend agree that
although in various countries there | 2:51:08 | 2:51:12 | |
is a wide range of laws to protect
victims of abuse and discrimination, | 2:51:12 | 2:51:17 | |
the reality is that many are put off
using the law to protect themselves | 2:51:17 | 2:51:23 | |
because of high legal costs, high
burden of proof, or the worry about | 2:51:23 | 2:51:28 | |
implications on future job prospects
or whatever? Exactly. All of the | 2:51:28 | 2:51:35 | |
difficulties of living a life if the
society that you live in and the | 2:51:35 | 2:51:40 | |
laws you live around to not allow
you to be yourself. And the reason, | 2:51:40 | 2:51:47 | |
I would suggest, and obviously so
many of the honourable and right | 2:51:47 | 2:51:53 | |
honourable member speaking in this
debate are LGBT themselves, are | 2:51:53 | 2:51:56 | |
because we know just how important
this freedom is to us. And I know, | 2:51:56 | 2:52:01 | |
because I only came out when I was
50. And when I was growing up, | 2:52:01 | 2:52:07 | |
having been born in 1960, into the
United Kingdom that existed in the | 2:52:07 | 2:52:12 | |
60s and 70s, that what I understood
about myself was that there was | 2:52:12 | 2:52:15 | |
something wrong with me. And I
wanted to be a soldier and a | 2:52:15 | 2:52:19 | |
politician. And that was wholly
inconsistent ever with beginning to | 2:52:19 | 2:52:24 | |
come to terms with myself. There are
awful lot of men of my age who are | 2:52:24 | 2:52:33 | |
now coming out because they now have
the societal freedom and the | 2:52:33 | 2:52:36 | |
professional freedom to be to do so.
But the lesson that the British | 2:52:36 | 2:52:44 | |
experience can give, and the British
story, to the rest of the world, as | 2:52:44 | 2:52:48 | |
to how we have moved from active
implementation of the Criminal Law | 2:52:48 | 2:52:56 | |
Amendment Act 50s, with over 1000
men in prison for consent Sewol | 2:52:56 | 2:53:02 | |
same-sex acts, through to where we
are now, is a story that we should | 2:53:02 | 2:53:08 | |
be able to tell to others. I want to
reflect on the role we can take as | 2:53:08 | 2:53:17 | |
parliamentarians. One should not
underestimate the huge challenge our | 2:53:17 | 2:53:22 | |
parliamentary colleagues, in
societies that are, because of their | 2:53:22 | 2:53:27 | |
religious beliefs and the influence
of religion in those countries, who | 2:53:27 | 2:53:31 | |
are in the same state that the
United Kingdom was in the 1950s, in | 2:53:31 | 2:53:36 | |
terms of their attitudes towards
LGBT people. We should not | 2:53:36 | 2:53:42 | |
underestimate the effect of our own
personal stories and testimony, | 2:53:42 | 2:53:48 | |
looking our fellow parliamentarians
in the eye, where we have the | 2:53:48 | 2:53:52 | |
opportunity to do so, saying, get
them to first base. Your sexuality | 2:53:52 | 2:53:56 | |
is not something you choose. And I
used those terms in a debate in this | 2:53:56 | 2:54:02 | |
house before I truly understood
myself. And quite rightly, I was | 2:54:02 | 2:54:08 | |
heckled, quite properly, by
colleagues on the other benches. Do | 2:54:08 | 2:54:14 | |
not assume that people understand
that. And once you get to that first | 2:54:14 | 2:54:19 | |
base, that your sexuality is very
largely innate, if not completely in | 2:54:19 | 2:54:24 | |
eight, not something that you
choose, then, of course, the public | 2:54:24 | 2:54:32 | |
policy that ought to come from that
flows from that. So you can say to | 2:54:32 | 2:54:37 | |
your parliamentary colleagues in
other countries, you are | 2:54:37 | 2:54:40 | |
representing gay people, whether you
like it or not, and representing | 2:54:40 | 2:54:43 | |
just as many gay people as I am.
There is no evidence that there is | 2:54:43 | 2:54:48 | |
any difference in the proportion of
sexuality is between races, parts of | 2:54:48 | 2:54:55 | |
the world, at all. So they have a
responsibility, and I think our | 2:54:55 | 2:55:00 | |
responsibility is to help
parliamentary colleagues in other | 2:55:00 | 2:55:03 | |
countries, who have to lead opinion
to change those societies, by the | 2:55:03 | 2:55:07 | |
evidence we can give them from our
experience. Thank you, Mr Deputy | 2:55:07 | 2:55:14 | |
Speaker. When I received the e-mail
about this debate asking if there | 2:55:14 | 2:55:18 | |
were any countries I would like
information about ahead of the | 2:55:18 | 2:55:21 | |
debate, I thought, where do I begin?
I do not wish to talk down progress, | 2:55:21 | 2:55:27 | |
because we have made great progress,
but the world is still a much | 2:55:27 | 2:55:31 | |
smaller and more dangerous place for
LGBT people, whether we like it or | 2:55:31 | 2:55:34 | |
not. On the Foreign Office travel
advice website, a more than 30% of | 2:55:34 | 2:55:42 | |
the 225 countries listed,
homosexuality, or homosexual acts, | 2:55:42 | 2:55:45 | |
are illegal. In nearly a quarter
there is a warning of some kind for | 2:55:45 | 2:55:49 | |
OG BT people travelling to these
countries. While we have the luxury | 2:55:49 | 2:55:52 | |
of heeding that advice, people
living there have no such luxury. | 2:55:52 | 2:56:00 | |
The advice that frequently appears
for those countries where being LGBT | 2:56:00 | 2:56:04 | |
is legal but frowned upon, or not
universally accepted is that you | 2:56:04 | 2:56:08 | |
should be discreet. Imagine living
your life that way. It is as | 2:56:08 | 2:56:14 | |
observed as asking someone to be
discreet about their height. The | 2:56:14 | 2:56:18 | |
advice for countries like Armenia,
where homosexuality is illegal, says | 2:56:18 | 2:56:22 | |
it is the culture there for same-sex
couples to be often seen holding | 2:56:22 | 2:56:25 | |
hands and kissing in public. This is
common and not necessarily an | 2:56:25 | 2:56:30 | |
indicator of sexual orientation. So
it is not the act of the same-sex | 2:56:30 | 2:56:35 | |
couple holding hands or kissing, but
their sexuality that is the problem. | 2:56:35 | 2:56:39 | |
It is heterosexual privilege in
action. It is often that intolerance | 2:56:39 | 2:56:42 | |
under the surface of society that
leads to shocking attacks against | 2:56:42 | 2:56:46 | |
people that we have seen around the
world. It is not enough to | 2:56:46 | 2:56:51 | |
decriminalise homosexuality. There
must be laws protecting the rights | 2:56:51 | 2:56:55 | |
and safety of people, and an effort
to make sure that society catches up | 2:56:55 | 2:56:59 | |
with those laws by per -- supporting
groups working in communities. | 2:56:59 | 2:57:04 | |
Unfortunately, that is not the case
for too many LGBT people around the | 2:57:04 | 2:57:08 | |
world. Mr Deputy Speaker, it is up
to progressive countries like us to | 2:57:08 | 2:57:14 | |
lead the way in global LGBT rights,
particularly in Commonwealth | 2:57:14 | 2:57:18 | |
countries. To do so, we must make
sure our own house is in order. It | 2:57:18 | 2:57:22 | |
is shameful that complaints of
research by the time for inclusive | 2:57:22 | 2:57:27 | |
education campaign in Scotland has
found that 90% of LGBT young people | 2:57:27 | 2:57:33 | |
experience homophobia, by phobia and
transfer the in school, with 27% | 2:57:33 | 2:57:38 | |
having attempted suicide as a result
of bullying. I agree with my | 2:57:38 | 2:57:43 | |
honourable friend about section 28
but in some ways we have not moved | 2:57:43 | 2:57:46 | |
on in that regard. There is still a
hangover from that legislation. | 2:57:46 | 2:57:52 | |
Happy to give away. He is making a
very powerful speech. Many | 2:57:52 | 2:57:58 | |
contributors have spoken about the
example we have set, but he is right | 2:57:58 | 2:58:01 | |
to say we have to make sure our
house is in order. Despite progress | 2:58:01 | 2:58:06 | |
in Great Britain and the Republic of
Ireland, we still see Northern | 2:58:06 | 2:58:10 | |
Ireland significantly lagging
behind. He has mentioned trans | 2:58:10 | 2:58:12 | |
phobia and I are meeting an activist
group in Cardiff this evening, a | 2:58:12 | 2:58:16 | |
support group. We need to do more on
the issue of trans-community issues. | 2:58:16 | 2:58:23 | |
I thank my honourable friend for his
point and I will come on to talk | 2:58:23 | 2:58:28 | |
about LGBT rights elsewhere in the
UK. The campaign has found that | 2:58:28 | 2:58:32 | |
often teachers do not know what they
are allowed to talk about in schools | 2:58:32 | 2:58:37 | |
and do not feel adequately trained
to tackle LGBT issues. They seek to | 2:58:37 | 2:58:42 | |
change that. I welcome the work they
have done and continue to do. Today, | 2:58:42 | 2:58:46 | |
they managed to secure the support
of the first Catholic priest to back | 2:58:46 | 2:58:50 | |
the campaign. He joins other faith
leaders in the Scottish Episcopal | 2:58:50 | 2:58:58 | |
Church and the Church of Scotland as
well as teachers, trade unions, | 2:58:58 | 2:59:01 | |
charities and politicians from all
parties, in recognising we need | 2:59:01 | 2:59:05 | |
action for LGBT young people at
school. It is important we have | 2:59:05 | 2:59:10 | |
these examples from leading figures
in society. Legislation in | 2:59:10 | 2:59:13 | |
government is also part of a leading
role in changing societal attitudes. | 2:59:13 | 2:59:19 | |
So I wonder, Mr Deputy Speaker, what
example the Prime Minister set when | 2:59:19 | 2:59:23 | |
she welcomed into the heart of
government a party hardly famed for | 2:59:23 | 2:59:27 | |
its support for LGBT rights. When I
got on a plane in Glasgow and landed | 2:59:27 | 2:59:33 | |
in Belfast, not far from where my
husband was born, despite not having | 2:59:33 | 2:59:38 | |
left the UK, our marriage is no
longer recognised. Because the DUP, | 2:59:38 | 2:59:43 | |
ignoring public opinion and blocking
the will of the Northern Ireland | 2:59:43 | 2:59:47 | |
Assembly, refuses to extend the
rights to people in Northern Ireland | 2:59:47 | 2:59:51 | |
that are enjoyed by citizens in the
rest of Ireland and the UK, basic | 2:59:51 | 2:59:54 | |
rights. Members of this house who
find themselves propping up the | 2:59:54 | 3:00:00 | |
government are on record making
comments such as, I am pretty | 3:00:00 | 3:00:04 | |
repulsed by gay and lesbian isn't, I
think it is wrong. I think that | 3:00:04 | 3:00:09 | |
those people harm themselves and
without caring about it, arms | 3:00:09 | 3:00:12 | |
society. That does not mean to say
that I hate them, but I hate what | 3:00:12 | 3:00:15 | |
they do.
LGBT people harming society. | 3:00:15 | 3:00:21 | |
Shocking comments. The Prime
Minister talks about how far we | 3:00:21 | 3:00:24 | |
still have to go, yet this is the
company she is keeping in | 3:00:24 | 3:00:27 | |
government. I am grateful to the
honourable gentleman forgiving way. | 3:00:27 | 3:00:33 | |
Does he agree that the DUP would do
well to look south to the Republic | 3:00:33 | 3:00:38 | |
of Ireland, which, despite coming
from the Catholic tradition, as I do | 3:00:38 | 3:00:42 | |
myself, and was delighted to hear
about the Roman Catholic priest, | 3:00:42 | 3:00:47 | |
despite coming from the Catholic
tradition, we now have gay marriage | 3:00:47 | 3:00:51 | |
recognised and a gay Taoiseach. Does
he agree that the DUP would do well | 3:00:51 | 3:00:54 | |
to follow in the footsteps of their
fellow countrymen? I thank the | 3:00:54 | 3:00:59 | |
honourable lady and I agree with
her. They would do well to look to | 3:00:59 | 3:01:03 | |
Scotland, and the example we are
setting as well. It is a short | 3:01:03 | 3:01:08 | |
journey from Glasgow to Belfast, but
what a change in rights when you do | 3:01:08 | 3:01:11 | |
that. £1 billion was the cost of the
agreement that help this government | 3:01:11 | 3:01:15 | |
together. Why wasn't LGBT equality
for all UK citizens part of that | 3:01:15 | 3:01:20 | |
deal? What kind of example can we
hope to set for the rest of the | 3:01:20 | 3:01:25 | |
world when we reward homophobia with
a place in government? Silence and | 3:01:25 | 3:01:30 | |
inaction is not an option. It is
time for the government to put its | 3:01:30 | 3:01:33 | |
mouth where it money is. | 3:01:33 | 3:01:40 | |
Thank you, it is a pleasure to
follow the honourable gentleman for | 3:01:40 | 3:01:45 | |
Rutherglen and Hamilton West, not
least because it is a part of | 3:01:45 | 3:01:48 | |
Scotland my family hails from and
indeed I cut my campaigning teeth in | 3:01:48 | 3:01:54 | |
the Rutherglen constituency. Despite
there being a ward called Tory glen, | 3:01:54 | 3:01:57 | |
I came for the! -- fourth. My
honourable friend was correct to say | 3:01:57 | 3:02:12 | |
that we have a two world situation.
We should celebrate the fact there | 3:02:12 | 3:02:16 | |
are many countries in the world
which are making commendable | 3:02:16 | 3:02:22 | |
progress on LGBT+ issues. On the
first of this month, Germany, | 3:02:22 | 3:02:27 | |
same-sex marriage in Germany became
legal following a vote in her | 3:02:27 | 3:02:31 | |
parliament earlier this year. We
know about the referendum in | 3:02:31 | 3:02:35 | |
Australia, which I hope will go the
right way. I have relatives over | 3:02:35 | 3:02:38 | |
there and I will do a spot of
telephone canvassing to make sure | 3:02:38 | 3:02:45 | |
they vote the right way. And Taiwan
has become the first country in Asia | 3:02:45 | 3:02:52 | |
where their highest court recognises
same-sex marriage. I hope that will | 3:02:52 | 3:02:55 | |
play despite all the other tensions
in that part of the world. I hope | 3:02:55 | 3:03:01 | |
that example will encourage others
to the same route. As many members | 3:03:01 | 3:03:08 | |
on both sides have detailed, there
are so many shocking examples of | 3:03:08 | 3:03:13 | |
countries where there is an
incredibly regressive and retrograde | 3:03:13 | 3:03:19 | |
developments taking place. The point
I want to make this this debate is | 3:03:19 | 3:03:24 | |
principally this. We have to be
honest with ourselves that there is | 3:03:24 | 3:03:27 | |
not one simple, easy quick solution
to getting these countries to move | 3:03:27 | 3:03:32 | |
to a more enlightened place. You
cannot just legislate for change. | 3:03:32 | 3:03:37 | |
You have to encourage them to lower
culture is to adapt and prejudices | 3:03:37 | 3:03:40 | |
to be challenged and diminished. As
other members of mentioned, we must | 3:03:40 | 3:03:49 | |
remind ourselves that this country
has been on a journey. Yes, we have | 3:03:49 | 3:03:54 | |
probably the most advanced
equalities legislation in the world. | 3:03:54 | 3:03:59 | |
Yes, this Parliament is one of the
most LGBT+ friendly in the world. | 3:03:59 | 3:04:04 | |
Yes, we have seen an enormous shift
in British public opinion in a | 3:04:04 | 3:04:09 | |
relatively short period of time it's
only a couple of decades ago that | 3:04:09 | 3:04:12 | |
the majority of the country believed
homosexual acts were sinful or | 3:04:12 | 3:04:16 | |
wrong, that has been reversed and
rightfully so. But prejudice | 3:04:16 | 3:04:22 | |
remains. I want briefly to reference
two events in recent months which | 3:04:22 | 3:04:28 | |
confirmed to me that prejudice is
still there. In the summer, I | 3:04:28 | 3:04:33 | |
recorded a video for the Diana award
back anti-bullying project. The very | 3:04:33 | 3:04:39 | |
fact we have to do these campaigns
where young people are bullied at | 3:04:39 | 3:04:46 | |
school, shows us that prejudice
remains. In recent weeks, my new | 3:04:46 | 3:04:51 | |
partner and I were walking in a
shopping centre holding hands, as I | 3:04:51 | 3:04:58 | |
should have the right to do. And
someone who clearly knew me shouted | 3:04:58 | 3:05:04 | |
out a comment that was both racist
and homophobic. That, in Milton | 3:05:04 | 3:05:09 | |
Keynes, one of the more enlightened
and modern parts of our country. | 3:05:09 | 3:05:13 | |
That had happened shows there is
prejudice is still in this country. | 3:05:13 | 3:05:18 | |
We are still on a journey. I will
give way. I want to reinforce, | 3:05:18 | 3:05:26 | |
prejudice and bullying in schools
but there are aspects of public | 3:05:26 | 3:05:29 | |
policy that are still in the wrong
place. I talk about the prescription | 3:05:29 | 3:05:34 | |
of prep, established with £1 million
worth of advantage if a gay man | 3:05:34 | 3:05:44 | |
could be prescribed prep, we can't
have a public open policy, we have | 3:05:44 | 3:05:47 | |
to have a large trial to get this
thing delivered because of the | 3:05:47 | 3:05:52 | |
attitude that would then surround
the challenge faced by Secretary of | 3:05:52 | 3:05:56 | |
State for Health in order to do the
right thing around public health. My | 3:05:56 | 3:06:01 | |
honourable friend makes an important
point. Another example to back up | 3:06:01 | 3:06:07 | |
what I said, that we are still on a
journey in this country, even though | 3:06:07 | 3:06:10 | |
we have legislated in many areas and
we have to understand that other | 3:06:10 | 3:06:15 | |
countries will also have to take a
long time to get to the point we | 3:06:15 | 3:06:20 | |
want them to get to, you cannot just
legislate. That's why we have to use | 3:06:20 | 3:06:24 | |
all the tools at our disposal. And
colleagues on both sides have | 3:06:24 | 3:06:28 | |
mentioned some of those. Yes, we
have soft power that we can exert | 3:06:28 | 3:06:34 | |
because of our historical
relationships with many countries | 3:06:34 | 3:06:36 | |
and I very much hope we use the
meeting coming up to put these | 3:06:36 | 3:06:43 | |
issues on the agenda. The horrible
case in the UAE of the Scottish | 3:06:43 | 3:06:46 | |
gentleman who was put on trial and
has now had his charges dropped, I | 3:06:46 | 3:06:55 | |
very much hope that with the
exertion of diplomacy from this | 3:06:55 | 3:07:00 | |
country that helped that along the
way. We should make sure the soft | 3:07:00 | 3:07:07 | |
power we can exert through our
overseas aid budget is used in the | 3:07:07 | 3:07:09 | |
right way. The honourable gentleman
absolutely cock at night, we need to | 3:07:09 | 3:07:15 | |
make sure the money is there to help
groups on the ground. -- got that | 3:07:15 | 3:07:21 | |
right. We cannot take away money for
health projects just because of a | 3:07:21 | 3:07:31 | |
horrible LGBT+ policy, it should be
the other way round, we should use | 3:07:31 | 3:07:34 | |
that soft power to encourage them
down the road. As individual | 3:07:34 | 3:07:40 | |
parliamentarians, in my
constituency, I have a large | 3:07:40 | 3:07:42 | |
Nigerian population. I do not make
any secrets of my homosexuality when | 3:07:42 | 3:07:49 | |
I go with me then, I've that simple
act of me being open with them and | 3:07:49 | 3:07:53 | |
they can judge me however they like,
hopefully they will see I can act as | 3:07:53 | 3:07:57 | |
a politician and that then filters
through their community. I hope that | 3:07:57 | 3:08:03 | |
this is something each and every one
of us can do. We need to make more | 3:08:03 | 3:08:10 | |
use of soft power from sporting and
cultural events, like the upcoming | 3:08:10 | 3:08:16 | |
Olympic Games in Japan in 2020, I
hope sports men and women can be out | 3:08:16 | 3:08:24 | |
and proud and shown at their
sexuality makes no difference to our | 3:08:24 | 3:08:29 | |
sporting ability. And as the
honourable lady mentioned, trade | 3:08:29 | 3:08:34 | |
will be an enormous lever. I do not
want to get into a Brexit discussion | 3:08:34 | 3:08:44 | |
but one of the consequences of
leaving the EU is that we can | 3:08:44 | 3:08:48 | |
develop new trade policies with many
countries in Africa and I hope that | 3:08:48 | 3:08:54 | |
better interlinking of our
economies, where companies there | 3:08:54 | 3:09:02 | |
will realise there is a huge pink
pound market in the UK for them to | 3:09:02 | 3:09:08 | |
sell their products or to in their
country might be inhibited because | 3:09:08 | 3:09:11 | |
of their LGBT+ policies, I hope that
it by bit, example by example, those | 3:09:11 | 3:09:19 | |
closer economic ties will help break
down some of the prejudices. It is | 3:09:19 | 3:09:23 | |
not going to be easy, we should
pretend it is. It is not going to be | 3:09:23 | 3:09:29 | |
quick but that should not dissuade
us from the task to achieve a world | 3:09:29 | 3:09:34 | |
where people, whatever their
nationality or religion or | 3:09:34 | 3:09:37 | |
background can love whomever they
want to. A pleasure to follow the | 3:09:37 | 3:09:48 | |
honourable gentleman, can I start by
paying tribute to the security of | 3:09:48 | 3:09:53 | |
this debate and the hard work and
keeping this important human rights | 3:09:53 | 3:10:00 | |
issue high on the agenda. Over the
past year and in recent months, we | 3:10:00 | 3:10:05 | |
have continued to see persistent and
all reports of persecution of the | 3:10:05 | 3:10:09 | |
LGBT community from Chechnya to
Azerbaijan, Egypt to Tajikistan and | 3:10:09 | 3:10:15 | |
so many places in between.
Kidnapping, mistreatment, in | 3:10:15 | 3:10:21 | |
custody, harassment, torture, and a
significant scale. With the leaders | 3:10:21 | 3:10:24 | |
of these countries so often
appearing to face nothing more than | 3:10:24 | 3:10:28 | |
a stern talking to. I was going to
mention the murdered gay Chechnya | 3:10:28 | 3:10:35 | |
and pop star but that has already
been highlighted, where he was | 3:10:35 | 3:10:41 | |
simply attending his sister's
wedding Chechnya. Homophobia in all | 3:10:41 | 3:10:47 | |
shapes and forms is absolutely
abhorrent to be state-sponsored | 3:10:47 | 3:10:50 | |
persecution we still see too often
is disgusting and despicable and far | 3:10:50 | 3:10:54 | |
from being the strong men they think
they are, its perpetrators are among | 3:10:54 | 3:10:58 | |
the most cowardly, pathetic and vile
individuals alive. The process of | 3:10:58 | 3:11:03 | |
turning this around will not be an
easy one and it will take | 3:11:03 | 3:11:06 | |
co-ordinated international action
rather than isolated Government spot | 3:11:06 | 3:11:11 | |
the UK Government should be
commended for the times it has shown | 3:11:11 | 3:11:14 | |
leadership with respect to LGBT
rights. There is so much work ahead. | 3:11:14 | 3:11:20 | |
It is imperative the Government
persist in calling for the immediate | 3:11:20 | 3:11:23 | |
release for people when they are
detained on the basis of their | 3:11:23 | 3:11:26 | |
sexual orientation. Not only for
legislation that allows that to | 3:11:26 | 3:11:32 | |
happen, but it also has to be
positively for legislation that | 3:11:32 | 3:11:37 | |
protects against discrimination act
protects human rights. Laws and | 3:11:37 | 3:11:42 | |
political leaders are just one side
of the coin, it's not just about | 3:11:42 | 3:11:45 | |
changing the minds of presidents and
prime ministers. For example, | 3:11:45 | 3:11:49 | |
according to a 2013 survey, 95% of
Egyptians believe homosexuality | 3:11:49 | 3:11:54 | |
should not be accepted by society.
So, there is an even bigger battle | 3:11:54 | 3:11:59 | |
to change hearts and minds more
generally. But we can support change | 3:11:59 | 3:12:04 | |
and members have rightly pointed out
how both Government and business | 3:12:04 | 3:12:08 | |
must support NGOs protecting LGBT
rights. We must be ambassadors at | 3:12:08 | 3:12:13 | |
every opportunity, both in actions
abroad and when we hosts. Something | 3:12:13 | 3:12:19 | |
brought to mind Praet house in
Glasgow in 2014 during the | 3:12:19 | 3:12:26 | |
Commonwealth Games and a good
example of how close can promote | 3:12:26 | 3:12:31 | |
participation. 90 events were hosted
and over 6000 people passed through | 3:12:31 | 3:12:39 | |
the doors from at least 59 countries
and territories, all of whom will | 3:12:39 | 3:12:44 | |
now know that Glasgow, Scotland and
the UK want to support LGBT rights. | 3:12:44 | 3:12:49 | |
Even accepting that we hear still
have a journey to go. Before | 3:12:49 | 3:12:53 | |
concluding, I want to raise the
issue of how we treat people who | 3:12:53 | 3:12:56 | |
have fled repressive regimes. Those
who seek refugee status here. I | 3:12:56 | 3:13:04 | |
recall representing a young gay man
in few years ago and back then the | 3:13:04 | 3:13:10 | |
legal challenge to what was then
offers practice, to refuse | 3:13:10 | 3:13:15 | |
protection on the basis that a
person could be discreet, had barely | 3:13:15 | 3:13:19 | |
started by the Supreme Court made
absolutely clear that what is | 3:13:19 | 3:13:22 | |
protected under the refugee
Convention is not something right to | 3:13:22 | 3:13:25 | |
live a shadowy and furtive existence
at the right to live freely and | 3:13:25 | 3:13:29 | |
openly as a gay man or woman. In his
Speech, Lord Rodger put it in a | 3:13:29 | 3:13:34 | |
rather more colourful way. He said,
to illustrate the point with trivial | 3:13:34 | 3:13:39 | |
stereotypical examples from British
society, just as the essentials are | 3:13:39 | 3:13:42 | |
free to enjoy themselves playing
rugby, drinking beer and talking | 3:13:42 | 3:13:45 | |
about girls with their mates, so
mail essentials are to be free to | 3:13:45 | 3:13:49 | |
Kylie Minogue concerts, drinking
exotic cocktails and talking about | 3:13:49 | 3:13:52 | |
boys with a straight female mate. In
other words, gay men are to be as | 3:13:52 | 3:13:58 | |
free as the street equivalents in
the society content to live their | 3:13:58 | 3:14:02 | |
lives in a way that is natural to
them as gay men without fear of | 3:14:02 | 3:14:05 | |
persecution. Awful, awful
stereotypes aside, that was a | 3:14:05 | 3:14:11 | |
ground-breaking decision. Almost
seven years later, there is no | 3:14:11 | 3:14:16 | |
concern for the Home Office is not
taking that seriously. Different | 3:14:16 | 3:14:19 | |
stages of the asylum process, from
detention, two interviews, to | 3:14:19 | 3:14:24 | |
guidance and removals being
implemented. I very much welcome and | 3:14:24 | 3:14:27 | |
encourage the Government to continue
and redouble its efforts of tackling | 3:14:27 | 3:14:32 | |
persecution abroad. I simply ask
also to consider how it treats those | 3:14:32 | 3:14:37 | |
who have fled that same persecution
here at home. Thank you for allowing | 3:14:37 | 3:14:44 | |
me to talk in this Speech this
afternoon. I think my honourable | 3:14:44 | 3:14:50 | |
friend for securing this important
debate. Madame Deputy Speaker, I am | 3:14:50 | 3:14:54 | |
proud to sit with members on these
benches who have championed LGBT | 3:14:54 | 3:14:58 | |
rights. In the 20 manifesto that I
was elected on, it clearly stated | 3:14:58 | 3:15:03 | |
they were to combat the perpetuation
of violence against people because | 3:15:03 | 3:15:07 | |
of faith, gender or sexuality. In
action, conservatives have pushed | 3:15:07 | 3:15:13 | |
for the marriage equality act and
are now considering the gender | 3:15:13 | 3:15:16 | |
recognition act and we, on these
benches, are committed to the | 3:15:16 | 3:15:20 | |
principle of equality in law. The UK
has a proud record of LGBT rights, | 3:15:20 | 3:15:27 | |
as we have heard today, it has been
a journey that today we can stand | 3:15:27 | 3:15:34 | |
tall on the international stage to
champion how all parts of the | 3:15:34 | 3:15:38 | |
people's rates and ability to live
their lives first. Elsewhere, as | 3:15:38 | 3:15:42 | |
they appeared, in Chechnya,
Azerbaijan, we have had a number of | 3:15:42 | 3:15:46 | |
issues put forward and I find... I
thank my honourable friend for | 3:15:46 | 3:15:52 | |
giving way. As vice-chairman the
all-party group on Azerbaijan, I am | 3:15:52 | 3:15:58 | |
also a gay man and had a meeting
with still more this afternoon and | 3:15:58 | 3:16:03 | |
assured them the greatest formally
to get assurances that this sort of | 3:16:03 | 3:16:08 | |
behaviour we saw in September,
towards LGBT people will not be | 3:16:08 | 3:16:11 | |
repeated. | 3:16:11 | 3:16:17 | |
I wish him luck in his efforts. To
me, ideologies that suppress, | 3:16:17 | 3:16:25 | |
torture and kill because of one
human's feelings towards another are | 3:16:25 | 3:16:29 | |
unacceptable. In the UK, we must
show international leadership. | 3:16:29 | 3:16:34 | |
International leadership is very
important, and I would refer to the | 3:16:34 | 3:16:38 | |
United States, which was once a
beacon for all kinds of individual | 3:16:38 | 3:16:42 | |
rights. I would like to share my
disappointment at the decisions of | 3:16:42 | 3:16:49 | |
the latest American President to ban
the further recruitment of | 3:16:49 | 3:16:53 | |
trans-soldiers and deny funding of
certain medical treatment for those | 3:16:53 | 3:16:56 | |
soldiers. In my view, if someone is
brave enough to fight for their | 3:16:56 | 3:17:00 | |
country, their country should be
brave enough to fight for them. In | 3:17:00 | 3:17:05 | |
this country, we have a number of
measures that are helping | 3:17:05 | 3:17:09 | |
internationally. I welcome the Magna
Carta fund which is being pushed | 3:17:09 | 3:17:13 | |
through the FCO, and the
government's recent funding of 3 | 3:17:13 | 3:17:17 | |
million to tackle homophobic
bullying in schools in England and | 3:17:17 | 3:17:19 | |
Wales. The Scottish Government have
a campaign which has been very | 3:17:19 | 3:17:25 | |
successful and their anti-bullying
service is also welcomed. I look | 3:17:25 | 3:17:28 | |
forward to a joined up campaign
across the UK to promote LGBT | 3:17:28 | 3:17:34 | |
rights. We are a leader but we have
to maintain that position of | 3:17:34 | 3:17:38 | |
leadership. Speaking for my
constituency, the two centres where | 3:17:38 | 3:17:43 | |
we are able to collect statistics on
sexual orientation aggravated crime | 3:17:43 | 3:17:48 | |
have shown that in the last year
there were 21 cases of such crimes. | 3:17:48 | 3:17:57 | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, in my view,
that is 21 cases too many. A couple | 3:17:57 | 3:18:01 | |
of weeks ago, I had the privilege,
with other Scottish members, to | 3:18:01 | 3:18:07 | |
speak to a representative from a
campaign who talked about a number | 3:18:07 | 3:18:13 | |
of individuals, journeys and
challenges dealing with their | 3:18:13 | 3:18:17 | |
sexuality. One story that has stuck
with me was the story of a young man | 3:18:17 | 3:18:23 | |
who was so tortured by his own
sexuality and how he could fit in | 3:18:23 | 3:18:27 | |
with his local community, he had
gone so far as to pick a tree | 3:18:27 | 3:18:31 | |
outside his house from which to hang
in self, so he could be easily | 3:18:31 | 3:18:35 | |
collected by his family. I am sure
other members will join me when they | 3:18:35 | 3:18:43 | |
acknowledge that we have heard so
many tales of people tearing | 3:18:43 | 3:18:47 | |
themselves apart because of the way
they feel. They ask themselves one | 3:18:47 | 3:18:52 | |
question. Can I love who I do and
yet still be good? Still be a | 3:18:52 | 3:18:57 | |
success? Still be able to contribute
to their community? And I think, | 3:18:57 | 3:19:04 | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, in this house
the answer must be an unequivocal | 3:19:04 | 3:19:07 | |
yes. I support the campaign that has
been mentioned by honourable members | 3:19:07 | 3:19:12 | |
earlier, which is promoting
inclusive education to make sure | 3:19:12 | 3:19:19 | |
LGBT issues are included as part of
the curriculum. This is not to | 3:19:19 | 3:19:23 | |
promote one path or another, but
just to give young people the | 3:19:23 | 3:19:27 | |
confidence to walk the path that is
their own. Madam Deputy Speaker, we | 3:19:27 | 3:19:34 | |
must uphold LGBT rights with the
same ferocity as the rights of any | 3:19:34 | 3:19:39 | |
of our citizens. We must tackle
discrimination at home and abroad | 3:19:39 | 3:19:43 | |
and give everyone the confidence to
live their lives and contribute our | 3:19:43 | 3:19:46 | |
society. Unlike so many issues
debated in this house, equality in | 3:19:46 | 3:19:55 | |
law is something we can all agree
with and I hope every member in this | 3:19:55 | 3:19:58 | |
house can commit to it. Madam Deputy
Speaker, it is a pleasure to follow | 3:19:58 | 3:20:06 | |
the honourable gentleman. We always
welcome allies in these debates and | 3:20:06 | 3:20:09 | |
there have been a number of powerful
speeches. It is important to bring | 3:20:09 | 3:20:20 | |
forward and raise the voices of
those around the world who cannot | 3:20:20 | 3:20:23 | |
speak for themselves. Gay people are
born and belong to every society in | 3:20:23 | 3:20:27 | |
the world, all ages, races and
faiths. Doctors, teachers, farmers, | 3:20:27 | 3:20:32 | |
bankers, soldiers and athletes.
Whether we know it or knowledge it, | 3:20:32 | 3:20:35 | |
they are our family, friends and
neighbours. Being gay is not a | 3:20:35 | 3:20:40 | |
Western invention but a human rights
to. Those are the excellent words of | 3:20:40 | 3:20:44 | |
Hillary Clinton, which I have
returned to on many occasions. As | 3:20:44 | 3:20:50 | |
someone who took until they were 32
to come to terms with my own | 3:20:50 | 3:20:53 | |
sexuality, I spent a lot of my early
life hiding from myself, from I | 3:20:53 | 3:20:58 | |
feelings, from my emotions, from the
truth of who I am and who I love. | 3:20:58 | 3:21:02 | |
But I never had to hide from the
state, from the police, or from fear | 3:21:02 | 3:21:07 | |
of being persecuted or killed.
Sadly, that is the experience of | 3:21:07 | 3:21:12 | |
many LGBT people across the globe,
in places such as Mauritania, Saudi | 3:21:12 | 3:21:17 | |
Arabia, Iran and Afghanistan. In
those countries coming 2017, being | 3:21:17 | 3:21:23 | |
LGBT is punishable by death. So it
is vital that we shine a light, as | 3:21:23 | 3:21:28 | |
we have today, with many powerful
speeches, of those people who are | 3:21:28 | 3:21:32 | |
being persecuted and cannot speak
for themselves. They gay men in | 3:21:32 | 3:21:36 | |
Chechnya who are unable to hide, and
have been beaten, tortured or | 3:21:36 | 3:21:40 | |
killed. The stories that have
emerged have sickened us all. There | 3:21:40 | 3:21:45 | |
has been cross-party condemnation of
those acts. It is good that | 3:21:45 | 3:21:50 | |
international pressure has led to
investigations but questions remain | 3:21:50 | 3:21:53 | |
about President Putin's commitment
to stopping these crimes, as the | 3:21:53 | 3:21:57 | |
Guardian reported in May that rights
activists worry that Chechen | 3:21:57 | 3:22:00 | |
authorities will do anything to
obstruct the federal investigation | 3:22:00 | 3:22:03 | |
into these allegations. The UK
Government must continue to put | 3:22:03 | 3:22:09 | |
pressure on Russia and any future
trade deals during or after Brexit | 3:22:09 | 3:22:12 | |
must not be traded against human
rights. I am proud the UK and | 3:22:12 | 3:22:18 | |
Scotland has come so far. Scotland
is recognised as one of the most | 3:22:18 | 3:22:22 | |
progressive countries in terms of
LGBT rights, and as the honourable | 3:22:22 | 3:22:26 | |
gentleman previously referred to, we
are now the gayest party in this | 3:22:26 | 3:22:30 | |
Parliament. I was proud to bring
those numbers up. And I am also | 3:22:30 | 3:22:38 | |
proud that our only dirt in
Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon, was one | 3:22:38 | 3:22:42 | |
of the first leaders to take part in
a Pride event and speak at Glasgow | 3:22:42 | 3:22:48 | |
Pride earlier this year. It is not a
competition, at the end of the day, | 3:22:48 | 3:22:54 | |
and it was interesting that now you
have to be gay to become a | 3:22:54 | 3:22:58 | |
Conservative candidate. That is most
definitely progress. And the | 3:22:58 | 3:23:04 | |
campaign, time for inclusive
education, we have to pay tribute to | 3:23:04 | 3:23:08 | |
Jordan daily and Liam Stevenson.
They came to Parliament recently and | 3:23:08 | 3:23:11 | |
I was glad to co-host an event with
the honourable member, and the | 3:23:11 | 3:23:19 | |
stories they told us. Jordan's story
is so powerful. They have been | 3:23:19 | 3:23:29 | |
putting pressure on the Scottish
Government and other governments | 3:23:29 | 3:23:31 | |
around the world and have been
recognised by the UN as a leading | 3:23:31 | 3:23:35 | |
light, another example of how we are
leading the world. There are so many | 3:23:35 | 3:23:40 | |
charities and organisations we can
recognise. Stonewall and the | 3:23:40 | 3:23:43 | |
kaleidoscope trust are doing work
across the world. A friend of mine | 3:23:43 | 3:23:47 | |
who was openly gay at secondary
school, which I was too terrified to | 3:23:47 | 3:23:52 | |
do, told me recently that if it had
not been for the support she had | 3:23:52 | 3:23:56 | |
from Stonewall, she may not have
survived. They were, quite simply, a | 3:23:56 | 3:24:01 | |
lifeline that saved her life. I'm
grateful to my honourable friend. | 3:24:01 | 3:24:06 | |
Does she agree that part of the
problem that we have such difficulty | 3:24:06 | 3:24:10 | |
with bullying over LGBTI issues in
schools across the UK is the legacy | 3:24:10 | 3:24:17 | |
of the section 28 legislation, which
made it very difficult for teachers | 3:24:17 | 3:24:21 | |
to deal with these issues. Will she
act to the list of people to whom | 3:24:21 | 3:24:24 | |
she wants to pay tribute the Labour
government in Scotland which with | 3:24:24 | 3:24:31 | |
the support of the SNP repeal that
legislation, and the politicians and | 3:24:31 | 3:24:38 | |
activists who fought for so many
years against that pernicious | 3:24:38 | 3:24:41 | |
legislation. I remember a march in
Lanchester in 1987. So will she paid | 3:24:41 | 3:24:47 | |
to be to the people who fought that
legislation? I agree with her and I | 3:24:47 | 3:24:52 | |
think there is a consensus in the
chamber today and it is important to | 3:24:52 | 3:24:57 | |
pay tribute to those who came before
us, in the Labour government in | 3:24:57 | 3:25:01 | |
Scotland, and what the UK Government
is now doing, Justine Greening, the | 3:25:01 | 3:25:07 | |
minister, the Secretary of State,
doing a lot of work in terms of | 3:25:07 | 3:25:11 | |
education and LGBT matters as well.
It is important that we speak up and | 3:25:11 | 3:25:15 | |
work together. We may disagree on
many issues but there will be areas | 3:25:15 | 3:25:18 | |
of agreement. And there are chinks
of light internationally. We have | 3:25:18 | 3:25:23 | |
countries like Australia who are
finally catching up and have their | 3:25:23 | 3:25:27 | |
public survey and pleb as I act. I
should declare an interest as the | 3:25:27 | 3:25:31 | |
partner of an Australian citizen. It
saddens me that she does not have | 3:25:31 | 3:25:36 | |
the same rights at home in Australia
as she does here in Scotland and the | 3:25:36 | 3:25:39 | |
UK. I want to pay to be to the right
honourable member for Rutland, who | 3:25:39 | 3:25:44 | |
is not in his place but was earlier,
who took part, along with other | 3:25:44 | 3:25:48 | |
members in this chamber, in a
programme I made with the BBC about | 3:25:48 | 3:25:52 | |
politicians and their experiences of
coming out. We may not always agree, | 3:25:52 | 3:25:59 | |
but I have respect for the position
he took recently when he was | 3:25:59 | 3:26:02 | |
addressing the Chicago Council on
global affairs. He said the UK is | 3:26:02 | 3:26:06 | |
committed to promoting and
protecting the rights of women and | 3:26:06 | 3:26:09 | |
girls and LGBT people everywhere and
to build a wider international | 3:26:09 | 3:26:13 | |
consensus around efforts to advance
equality and justice, including in | 3:26:13 | 3:26:16 | |
the US, because that is another area
in which the US and the UK | 3:26:16 | 3:26:20 | |
administration do not see eye to
eye. We have made clear we oppose | 3:26:20 | 3:26:23 | |
all the cremation, including within
the Armed Forces. The honourable | 3:26:23 | 3:26:28 | |
member previously made reference to
President Trump's stance on | 3:26:28 | 3:26:33 | |
transgender people within the army,
which is at horror and. Restoring | 3:26:33 | 3:26:39 | |
that military ban on transgender
people is another regressive and | 3:26:39 | 3:26:42 | |
divisive step he has made comments
is good to see the UK Government and | 3:26:42 | 3:26:46 | |
ministers and Secretary of State
standing up to that. Perhaps | 3:26:46 | 3:26:50 | |
President Trump could take
inspiration from Jimmy Carter, who | 3:26:50 | 3:26:54 | |
famously said, America did not
invent human rights. In a very real | 3:26:54 | 3:26:58 | |
sense, inhuman invented America. The
question by the right honourable | 3:26:58 | 3:27:03 | |
member for Reigate who asked an
important question earlier, I am | 3:27:03 | 3:27:07 | |
sure he is aware and will join with
me in congratulating the Scottish | 3:27:07 | 3:27:11 | |
Government who have made prep free
on the NHS in Scotland. We hope his | 3:27:11 | 3:27:18 | |
government will come forward with
plans as soon as possible. He asked | 3:27:18 | 3:27:21 | |
a question of the British Embassy is
about flying the rainbow flag during | 3:27:21 | 3:27:27 | |
Pride day, an international Day
against homophobia and bi phobia. He | 3:27:27 | 3:27:32 | |
got a response that said the
promotion and protection of LGBT | 3:27:32 | 3:27:35 | |
rights is a UK foreign policy
priority, but there is no record | 3:27:35 | 3:27:39 | |
kept. I am sure he will agree that
it would be appropriate, if we are | 3:27:39 | 3:27:44 | |
going to push and promote LGBT
rights, that we should be tracking | 3:27:44 | 3:27:47 | |
the progress of our embassies and
missions around the world. And I am | 3:27:47 | 3:27:56 | |
sure it is a policy priority for all
of them, but there is progress that | 3:27:56 | 3:28:02 | |
has been made. There are other
chinks of light. In Taiwan and | 3:28:02 | 3:28:06 | |
Malta, Malta has become the first
European country to ban conversion | 3:28:06 | 3:28:09 | |
therapy, something all of us will
find utterly abhorrent. I will say | 3:28:09 | 3:28:16 | |
in closing that someone at Pride in
London spoke very powerfully before | 3:28:16 | 3:28:23 | |
the march started about the fact
that in this country and across the | 3:28:23 | 3:28:28 | |
UK we must continue to have lists
and celebrate our LGBT leaders. We | 3:28:28 | 3:28:33 | |
must continue to march for those who
can't march, but we must set the | 3:28:33 | 3:28:38 | |
best possible example to the rest of
the world and make sure that no one | 3:28:38 | 3:28:42 | |
is persecuted just for loving the
person that they love. Thank you, | 3:28:42 | 3:28:49 | |
Madam Deputy Speaker. It is a
pleasure to follow the honourable | 3:28:49 | 3:28:52 | |
lady. May I thank the right
honourable member for securing this | 3:28:52 | 3:28:58 | |
important debate. In fact, the
backbench business committee that | 3:28:58 | 3:29:03 | |
keeps keeping me in this chamber on
a Thursday afternoon, really | 3:29:03 | 3:29:08 | |
important cross-party debates. And I
know the honourable member is | 3:29:08 | 3:29:13 | |
working very hard on LGBTI writes,
here at home and abroad. And I think | 3:29:13 | 3:29:22 | |
parliamentarians from across this
house absolutely, by coming out and | 3:29:22 | 3:29:26 | |
most importantly speaking out, lead
the way on this. It takes courage. I | 3:29:26 | 3:29:32 | |
see, as a fellow human, that
courage, and I see, as a fellow | 3:29:32 | 3:29:36 | |
human, that I must support that
courage. Living in the UK today, we | 3:29:36 | 3:29:41 | |
have found out that absolutely we
are in a position where we are | 3:29:41 | 3:29:44 | |
leading the world and we are having
a very positive journey, all with | 3:29:44 | 3:29:51 | |
friends, families, neighbours,
colleagues openly identifying | 3:29:51 | 3:29:53 | |
themselves as LGBT community. And
this is being reflected through | 3:29:53 | 3:29:58 | |
government policy. We have made huge
strides since 2010, and in | 3:29:58 | 3:30:03 | |
particular under David Cameron,
where we witnessed the introduction | 3:30:03 | 3:30:06 | |
of marriage equality. We have seen
laws passed and the abolition of | 3:30:06 | 3:30:14 | |
offences which have affected so many
people. And the strides this summer | 3:30:14 | 3:30:19 | |
from the Prime Minister in terms of
the consultation forthcoming on the | 3:30:19 | 3:30:24 | |
gender recognition act. I am
fortunate to be working along with | 3:30:24 | 3:30:27 | |
one of my constituents and the
transgender community who are | 3:30:27 | 3:30:32 | |
working hard on these issues. So I
welcome the government's plans and | 3:30:32 | 3:30:35 | |
look forward to that moving forward.
Furthermore, as a former member of | 3:30:35 | 3:30:40 | |
the women and equality is select
committee I am delighted that it is | 3:30:40 | 3:30:44 | |
this Parliament that has done the
first investigating into transgender | 3:30:44 | 3:30:47 | |
rights. We were right to do that.
650,000 people identifying as | 3:30:47 | 3:30:54 | |
transgender. We have to tackle this.
It affects families, mental health, | 3:30:54 | 3:30:59 | |
the NHS in our communities. Our work
is world leading on this. Can I | 3:30:59 | 3:31:05 | |
thank the Lesbian and gay liaison
team at Hampshire Police for all the | 3:31:05 | 3:31:09 | |
work they do across our communities?
We all want equality for all. It | 3:31:09 | 3:31:15 | |
makes us safer, happier and
healthier. And I want to thank those | 3:31:15 | 3:31:19 | |
openly working in the NHS, the Fire
Services and all our communities. By | 3:31:19 | 3:31:24 | |
working together, it makes us
stronger, and by working with trans | 3:31:24 | 3:31:29 | |
people in particular in this area,
it makes our communities stronger. | 3:31:29 | 3:31:37 | |
Knitted hate crime awareness week
and we all have a responsibility to | 3:31:38 | 3:31:41 | |
be temperate in actions and
language. Tolerance matters. Hate | 3:31:41 | 3:31:47 | |
crime can leave an individual,
family or community isolated and | 3:31:47 | 3:31:51 | |
highlights a broken society. In the
UK, there is a place for hate. Being | 3:31:51 | 3:31:56 | |
tolerant and understanding makes us
safer together. I congratulate the | 3:31:56 | 3:31:59 | |
work of the Hampshire Police and
Crime Commissioner and his focus on | 3:31:59 | 3:32:04 | |
joint work with the Hampshire
Citizens Advice service on reporting | 3:32:04 | 3:32:09 | |
safe spaces in Citizens Advice
Bureau and the Isle of Wight, who | 3:32:09 | 3:32:13 | |
have secured a Pride there in 2018.
Next year, we will have a great | 3:32:13 | 3:32:19 | |
occasion and I have been contacted
by constituents who want a Pride | 3:32:19 | 3:32:24 | |
event in Eastleigh, they want to see
their town flying the flag. I was | 3:32:24 | 3:32:28 | |
delighted to hear the member for
Ribble Valley also mentioning this. | 3:32:28 | 3:32:32 | |
We are here and listen to those
living in fear worldwide because we | 3:32:32 | 3:32:38 | |
must all remember that being you is
not a crime but targeting youth, | 3:32:38 | 3:32:46 | |
bullying, threatening you, whoever
you are and where you live, that is | 3:32:46 | 3:32:49 | |
a crime and you do not have to put
up with it, reported and ask for | 3:32:49 | 3:32:52 | |
help and I congratulate Hampshire
and Isle of Wight youth Commission, | 3:32:52 | 3:32:57 | |
who are doing a project on tackling
this. This is a learned behaviour, | 3:32:57 | 3:33:02 | |
maybe at school or college and it is
simply unacceptable. If we can | 3:33:02 | 3:33:07 | |
achieve all of this year, we need to
do much more abroad and we have | 3:33:07 | 3:33:11 | |
heard about the perils if you happen
to be born in Chechnya, Azerbaijan | 3:33:11 | 3:33:17 | |
or indeed Egypt. And in fact,
hearing that apparently in Chechnya, | 3:33:17 | 3:33:21 | |
you don't exist if you are LGBTI,
everybody stands against that. We've | 3:33:21 | 3:33:32 | |
been talking about Australia, where
voting is compulsory. Should the law | 3:33:32 | 3:33:36 | |
be changed to allow same-sex couples
to marry? A strong Yes vote would be | 3:33:36 | 3:33:43 | |
a huge victory for LGBTI Australians
and this move forward can the | 3:33:43 | 3:33:49 | |
Government sent a clear message once
again globally. I welcome what we're | 3:33:49 | 3:33:53 | |
doing in the UK to make the lives of
people around the world better | 3:33:53 | 3:34:02 | |
through the FCA and our aid budget.
We need to make sure we continue to | 3:34:02 | 3:34:07 | |
work with the UN with the free and
equal campaign, which indeed is | 3:34:07 | 3:34:12 | |
heading towards about 2 billion
people who are interacting through | 3:34:12 | 3:34:17 | |
the power of social media. We have a
huge ability to change attitudes | 3:34:17 | 3:34:21 | |
because of that. To summarise, we
have made some huge strides in LGBT | 3:34:21 | 3:34:27 | |
rights here in the UK. We do set an
example, as parliamentarians, in our | 3:34:27 | 3:34:33 | |
local communities, in this Chamber
and across the globe. Indeed... I am | 3:34:33 | 3:34:39 | |
very grateful to her for giving way
and I will not seek her support | 3:34:39 | 3:34:44 | |
immediately for the amendment I'm
about to refer to because they | 3:34:44 | 3:34:46 | |
relate to the EU withdrawal Bill and
she may wish to looked more | 3:34:46 | 3:34:50 | |
carefully. But can I encourage her
to look at amendments to an 87-290, | 3:34:50 | 3:34:55 | |
which are supported by the equality
and human rights Commission, Amnesty | 3:34:55 | 3:35:00 | |
International, which I think of a
relevant to ensuring that was part | 3:35:00 | 3:35:03 | |
of the process of conversion from EU
multi channel, and human rights | 3:35:03 | 3:35:06 | |
Commission, Amnesty International,
which I think of a relevant to | 3:35:06 | 3:35:08 | |
ensuring that was part of the
process of conversion from EU Lottie | 3:35:08 | 3:35:10 | |
Kendall, that they relate to the EU
withdrawal Bill and she may wish to | 3:35:10 | 3:35:13 | |
look at them more carefully. But can
I encourage her to look at | 3:35:13 | 3:35:16 | |
amendments to an 87-290, which are
supported by the equality and human | 3:35:16 | 3:35:18 | |
rights Commission, Amnesty
International, which I think are | 3:35:18 | 3:35:20 | |
very relevant to ensuring that as
part of the process of conversion | 3:35:20 | 3:35:22 | |
from unity candle, and we do
preserve human rights aspects of | 3:35:22 | 3:35:24 | |
that EU law, which often has been
used in support of LGBT rights. I | 3:35:24 | 3:35:27 | |
hope she will at least look at
those. Arrow-mac I think the | 3:35:27 | 3:35:30 | |
honourable gentleman for this
intervention. Brexit to me, is | 3:35:30 | 3:35:32 | |
Brexit. It is not going back on
equality. I feel strongly about | 3:35:32 | 3:35:34 | |
that. I also mention the WHO who
have made such a regrettable | 3:35:34 | 3:35:36 | |
decision mentioned by the honourable
member for Ribble Valley, I am sure | 3:35:36 | 3:35:39 | |
UK Treasury made a difference on
that. Yes, the world does watch us | 3:35:39 | 3:35:45 | |
and indeed the Speech and the Pink
Gewirtz recognised that, from the | 3:35:45 | 3:35:54 | |
Prime Minister, and I recognised
that she has the chance to support | 3:35:54 | 3:35:57 | |
the LGBTI community until it but to
my children, not my children's | 3:35:57 | 3:36:02 | |
children, growing up in a world
where your sexuality nor your gender | 3:36:02 | 3:36:07 | |
and any kind of method to charge you
at all. Thank you, Madam Deputy | 3:36:07 | 3:36:17 | |
Speaker. I would like to thank the
member for Arundel and South Downs | 3:36:17 | 3:36:21 | |
for securing this debate. It is an
important debate, particularly in | 3:36:21 | 3:36:25 | |
light of some of the recent reports
from Azerbaijan, Egypt and Crimea. I | 3:36:25 | 3:36:31 | |
visited Azerbaijan many, many times
and in particular, Baku and Ganja, | 3:36:31 | 3:36:42 | |
when I was a member of any advisory
Council on youth, doing his work. I | 3:36:42 | 3:36:48 | |
found the young people there are
very tolerant, progressive, open | 3:36:48 | 3:36:52 | |
looking and it is often young people
that help create change in our | 3:36:52 | 3:36:56 | |
society. It is worrying that the
Government 's, these reports of | 3:36:56 | 3:37:06 | |
Government crackdown, I remember
racing reports of Government | 3:37:06 | 3:37:08 | |
crackdown on Azerbaijan in 2006 at
one of my first visit there. So, it | 3:37:08 | 3:37:15 | |
is reassuring to have the comments
from the Ambassador that we need | 3:37:15 | 3:37:18 | |
more than just words and I'm sure my
honourable friend will follow this | 3:37:18 | 3:37:26 | |
up but we need more than warm words,
we need concrete action from the | 3:37:26 | 3:37:30 | |
Azeri Government. You've got also --
Youth are often the part of the | 3:37:30 | 3:37:48 | |
population who suffer crackdowns.
And that pop concerts, young people | 3:37:48 | 3:37:57 | |
are disproportionately targeted.
Targeted for flying a flag? I mean, | 3:37:57 | 3:38:01 | |
really, it beggars belief. So, Madam
Deputy Speaker, we cannot just be | 3:38:01 | 3:38:07 | |
bystanders. They must be clear that
we have a moral duty to speak out | 3:38:07 | 3:38:12 | |
for human rights and human rights
abuses. For, Madam Deputy Speaker, | 3:38:12 | 3:38:19 | |
why is it that in so many countries
there are laws against LGBT people? | 3:38:19 | 3:38:25 | |
Why, in India, is the penal code
3707A? Why in Jamaica, Section and | 3:38:25 | 3:38:34 | |
77? It comes from 1861, that state
may give us a clue. And in | 3:38:34 | 3:38:44 | |
Singapore, the penal code 377, the
exact same number of the penal code | 3:38:44 | 3:38:48 | |
in India? Why? Because of course
they were laws imposed by British | 3:38:48 | 3:38:56 | |
colonial rule and British
imperialism. It was the Imperial law | 3:38:56 | 3:39:02 | |
combined by our imposition of
imperial Christian religion of the | 3:39:02 | 3:39:05 | |
time, expressed by an imperial
English language that enforced | 3:39:05 | 3:39:12 | |
homophobia in so many of our
Commonwealth countries that still | 3:39:12 | 3:39:18 | |
exist today. Often, against the
practices and they will of the local | 3:39:18 | 3:39:23 | |
historical narrative in those
countries. Madam Deputy Speaker, | 3:39:23 | 3:39:31 | |
study after study shows that it is
former British colonies that are | 3:39:31 | 3:39:36 | |
more likely to criminalise
homosexual acts and more likely than | 3:39:36 | 3:39:41 | |
any other former colonial state or
former state that was always | 3:39:41 | 3:39:50 | |
independent. 57% of state
criminalising homosexuality are from | 3:39:50 | 3:39:56 | |
a British colonial background. I
will give way. You have raised a lot | 3:39:56 | 3:40:03 | |
of historic points but would you not
agree that now is the opportunity to | 3:40:03 | 3:40:06 | |
use some of our long-standing
relationships with these countries | 3:40:06 | 3:40:09 | |
to improve those LGBT rights and
follow our good example? That is | 3:40:09 | 3:40:14 | |
exactly what I am coming onto. And I
am coming on to that because what I | 3:40:14 | 3:40:18 | |
am trying to say is that it is our
duty because we read them once, | 3:40:18 | 3:40:23 | |
historically, that actually imposed
some of these laws, to now speak up. | 3:40:23 | 3:40:27 | |
We cannot just wash our hands I
think we're anti-colonialists now, | 3:40:27 | 3:40:32 | |
we will just let you get on with it.
We have a duty actually to be | 3:40:32 | 3:40:36 | |
proactive in the response. I think
we will agree on this, 70% of | 3:40:36 | 3:40:42 | |
Commonwealth countries have some
sort of criminalisation of | 3:40:42 | 3:40:46 | |
homosexual acts and of course, we
have next year in this country to | 3:40:46 | 3:40:59 | |
ensure we are leading the way. I can
facts was at the Chogham event in | 3:40:59 | 3:41:11 | |
Sri Lanka for the youth Forum and
what was very interesting in both | 3:41:11 | 3:41:16 | |
those respects, the computer had an
interesting and detailed discussion | 3:41:16 | 3:41:21 | |
around anti-LGBT discrimination. In
the discussion, when it was opened | 3:41:21 | 3:41:25 | |
in the open ten array, it was touch
and go whether we would pass some of | 3:41:25 | 3:41:31 | |
the anti-LGBT discrimination closes
we were trying to get forward in the | 3:41:31 | 3:41:36 | |
declaration. When we asked for it to
go to a secret ballot, it passed | 3:41:36 | 3:41:42 | |
overwhelmingly. When I asked young
people from Commonwealth countries | 3:41:42 | 3:41:47 | |
by the change, later on, they said,
because actually, we are afraid of | 3:41:47 | 3:41:54 | |
our elders, we are afraid of often
more established forces in our | 3:41:54 | 3:42:00 | |
countries but we, our friends,
colleagues, other young people in | 3:42:00 | 3:42:03 | |
the country, do not see this as an
issue, we do not see LGBT people as | 3:42:03 | 3:42:10 | |
a problem, we actually see them as a
equal and should have their human | 3:42:10 | 3:42:19 | |
rights respected. I think that is
why it is so important that DFID and | 3:42:19 | 3:42:25 | |
the Foreign Office should continue
to support former Commonwealth and | 3:42:25 | 3:42:30 | |
other countries around the world in
being able to put forward that | 3:42:30 | 3:42:33 | |
argument. Because our role is not
just to go into these countries and | 3:42:33 | 3:42:37 | |
said our old penal code was wrong,
reverse it. Our role is to stand | 3:42:37 | 3:42:42 | |
shoulder to shoulder with other LGBT
activists, brothers and sisters, | 3:42:42 | 3:42:47 | |
around the world and to support
them. That is why it is important | 3:42:47 | 3:42:53 | |
and my honourable friend mentioned
earlier, embassies which have small | 3:42:53 | 3:42:59 | |
pots of cash to be able to support
groups on the ground, that is why it | 3:42:59 | 3:43:05 | |
is so important that Ambassador? No
they will get the backing of the FC | 3:43:05 | 3:43:09 | |
and if they put their neck out on
the line, on the ground to support | 3:43:09 | 3:43:15 | |
local LGBT groups. I was in Uganda
earlier in the year, speaking to | 3:43:15 | 3:43:21 | |
some of the LGBT groups there and
they're very thankful of the ongoing | 3:43:21 | 3:43:25 | |
support that our High Commission
offers them. One thing they do say | 3:43:25 | 3:43:30 | |
is that when the High Commissioner
changes, sometimes you get to the | 3:43:30 | 3:43:34 | |
change in wind, a slight different
direction, and that needs to be | 3:43:34 | 3:43:40 | |
something we are concerned about and
the FCO needs to give clear | 3:43:40 | 3:43:45 | |
guidelines to all ambassadors and
High Commissioner is to make sure | 3:43:45 | 3:43:48 | |
they know we have their back. I will
wrap up by saying, we have now an | 3:43:48 | 3:44:00 | |
opportunity to push at Chogham but
also at the UN to support people on | 3:44:00 | 3:44:04 | |
the ground and we must not those
opportunities go whilst also | 3:44:04 | 3:44:08 | |
speaking up against countries that
do breach human rights. When we're | 3:44:08 | 3:44:15 | |
talking about the abuses around the
world that we have been, it is best | 3:44:15 | 3:44:18 | |
to speak with a sense of humility of
the challenges we still face on | 3:44:18 | 3:44:24 | |
homophobia in our country. In
Brighton and Hove, which I am proud | 3:44:24 | 3:44:28 | |
to represent as one of the three
MPs, in May last year we sigh savage | 3:44:28 | 3:44:33 | |
homophobic attack against two young
people, both visitors to the city | 3:44:33 | 3:44:39 | |
who were savagely attacked in May
last year. We have also seen just | 3:44:39 | 3:44:44 | |
this week how somebody who
previously coming to this place but | 3:44:44 | 3:44:47 | |
still ended up as a Member of
Parliament in this place, used a | 3:44:47 | 3:44:50 | |
type of homophobic language in his
past that was really quite extreme | 3:44:50 | 3:44:55 | |
and offensive. He ended up as a
Member of Parliament in this | 3:44:55 | 3:45:00 | |
Parliament, being elected in this
year. But there are three things | 3:45:00 | 3:45:03 | |
about the response to both of these
cases but I think sets us apart the | 3:45:03 | 3:45:07 | |
country from those we are talking
about and are aiming to tackle in | 3:45:07 | 3:45:12 | |
this debate. The first, in the case
of the two men assaulted in | 3:45:12 | 3:45:17 | |
Brighton, the men who did assault
these two where convicted, arrested | 3:45:17 | 3:45:22 | |
and are currently serving a
five-year custodial sentence. The | 3:45:22 | 3:45:27 | |
state was on the victims' side. But
in other countries, from Russia to | 3:45:27 | 3:45:32 | |
Uganda, the police and judiciary are
often the ones carrying out the | 3:45:32 | 3:45:36 | |
homophobia in the first place,
whether through violence or use of | 3:45:36 | 3:45:39 | |
laws which are homophobic. They are
not protecting the citizens they | 3:45:39 | 3:45:43 | |
should be. Secondly, after the
assaults in Brighton that left those | 3:45:43 | 3:45:48 | |
men injured, one with both eye
sockets broken and cheekbones | 3:45:48 | 3:45:53 | |
broken, his nose broken, he said the
following. I hope that what happens | 3:45:53 | 3:45:58 | |
to me reminds people that
discrimination of any kind is not | 3:45:58 | 3:46:01 | |
acceptable and we need to challenge
it when it does. Whenever it happens | 3:46:01 | 3:46:05 | |
whenever we see it. No one should
live their life in clear and I would | 3:46:05 | 3:46:11 | |
be the first to urge people to be
themselves, to walk out the door | 3:46:11 | 3:46:15 | |
each day with their heads held high.
I know that these words coming from | 3:46:15 | 3:46:21 | |
a 22-year-old, who is a survivor of
a victim of hate crime, will be | 3:46:21 | 3:46:25 | |
inspiring to members across the
House. But this debate concerns | 3:46:25 | 3:46:28 | |
people who live in countries where
victims cannot hold their heads | 3:46:28 | 3:46:31 | |
high. | 3:46:31 | 3:46:36 | |
Because they suffer the fear of
arrest, torture or execution. Their | 3:46:36 | 3:46:41 | |
own states will not protect them, so
that is why we as a country have too | 3:46:41 | 3:46:46 | |
deliver some of the change their own
states are incapable of delivering | 3:46:46 | 3:46:50 | |
themselves. Thirdly, in the recent
incidents of the appalling words | 3:46:50 | 3:46:56 | |
used by the member for Sheffield
Hallam to describe gay people, it is | 3:46:56 | 3:47:00 | |
noticeable that both Parliament and
the media were convulsed by the | 3:47:00 | 3:47:05 | |
rough ocean of his words and the
sentiment behind them, even though | 3:47:05 | 3:47:08 | |
they were in his distant past. It is
right he has been suspended from the | 3:47:08 | 3:47:16 | |
Labour Party, but in parliaments in
Tanzania, Chechnya, Russia and to | 3:47:16 | 3:47:22 | |
many in Africa, offensive homophobic
rhetoric is not challenged but has | 3:47:22 | 3:47:24 | |
become the norm. Reading the
excellent report on global LGBT | 3:47:24 | 3:47:32 | |
rights, it makes for sobering
reading. The work put into it by | 3:47:32 | 3:47:37 | |
parliamentarians and campaigning
organisations was intense, immense, | 3:47:37 | 3:47:39 | |
but really worth it. I was
particularly struck by the | 3:47:39 | 3:47:45 | |
legislative assault on same-sex
relationships by the state in Uganda | 3:47:45 | 3:47:49 | |
and Nigeria. Legislation was
introduced in both countries which | 3:47:49 | 3:47:54 | |
strengthened the penalties for
same-sex activity, and drastically | 3:47:54 | 3:47:58 | |
limited the ability of LGBT people
to organise in defence of their | 3:47:58 | 3:48:00 | |
rights. Nigeria's same-sex marriage
prohibitions act has provisions in | 3:48:00 | 3:48:07 | |
it that criminalise the formation,
operation and support of gay clubs, | 3:48:07 | 3:48:11 | |
societies and organisations, with
sentences of up to ten years | 3:48:11 | 3:48:16 | |
imprisonment. And the curtailment of
the ability of LGBT communities to | 3:48:16 | 3:48:21 | |
organise themselves, to receive
funds and to provide services to and | 3:48:21 | 3:48:25 | |
allocate on behalf of LGBT people
goes beyond mere homophobia. It is a | 3:48:25 | 3:48:30 | |
direct assault on civil Society
itself. In terms of finding ways to | 3:48:30 | 3:48:34 | |
deliver change in these countries,
it is the erosion of civil society | 3:48:34 | 3:48:38 | |
that worries me most. In Britain,
the transformation from a country | 3:48:38 | 3:48:43 | |
with section 28 on statute to one of
equal rights and gay marriage was | 3:48:43 | 3:48:48 | |
not conceived and led and delivered
solely within the four walls of this | 3:48:48 | 3:48:52 | |
Parliament. Most of the leadership
came from outside, from within our | 3:48:52 | 3:48:57 | |
communities and by how remarkable
voluntary and campaigning sectors. | 3:48:57 | 3:49:01 | |
It was one of the best examples of
civil society and legislators | 3:49:01 | 3:49:05 | |
working together, almost in
partnership, to deliver positive | 3:49:05 | 3:49:08 | |
social change. It is notable that in
many of the countries we have talked | 3:49:08 | 3:49:13 | |
about today, they have suffered and
erosion and curtailment of wider | 3:49:13 | 3:49:17 | |
civil rights first, and as part of
this programme of eroding the rights | 3:49:17 | 3:49:20 | |
of gay people. This makes more
people vulnerable to abuse, both | 3:49:20 | 3:49:27 | |
state-sponsored, and from within the
institutions of the family and | 3:49:27 | 3:49:30 | |
community that surround them. I urge
ministers to act unrelentingly in | 3:49:30 | 3:49:35 | |
this area, to support lawyers trying
to challenge abuse by using the | 3:49:35 | 3:49:39 | |
expertise and resources of the
Department of Justice also, to train | 3:49:39 | 3:49:46 | |
our ambassadors appropriately in the
issue and to ensure this is a | 3:49:46 | 3:49:50 | |
priority of our whole government.
And to use our position in every | 3:49:50 | 3:49:55 | |
multinational and multilateral body,
from the UN to the Commonwealth, to | 3:49:55 | 3:49:59 | |
the monetary and banking
organisations, too, to make sure | 3:49:59 | 3:50:03 | |
that any country who chooses to
repress rather than support people | 3:50:03 | 3:50:06 | |
who want the basic human right to be
gay and to be happy, that Britain is | 3:50:06 | 3:50:11 | |
always on their side.
I think we have had an excellent | 3:50:11 | 3:50:18 | |
debate this afternoon and I would
particularly like to pay tribute to | 3:50:18 | 3:50:23 | |
the honourable member and his All
Party Parliamentary Group on Iran | 3:50:23 | 3:50:26 | |
LGBT global rights for being
instrumental in securing this | 3:50:26 | 3:50:28 | |
debate. Madam Deputy Speaker, I
suggest the litmus test of how much | 3:50:28 | 3:50:36 | |
we care in the UK about global LGBT
rights is how we treat LGBT plus | 3:50:36 | 3:50:41 | |
people who come to the UK from
countries where they have been | 3:50:41 | 3:50:45 | |
persecuted, seeking sanctuary.
Sadly, our record on that is not all | 3:50:45 | 3:50:51 | |
that it might be. Yesterday at Prime
Minister's Questions I raised with | 3:50:51 | 3:50:56 | |
the Prime Minister guidance recently
put out by the Home Office, put out | 3:50:56 | 3:50:59 | |
earlier this year, new Home Office
guidance on Afghanistan suggesting | 3:50:59 | 3:51:05 | |
that gay asylum seekers can return
to Afghanistan if they pretend to be | 3:51:05 | 3:51:09 | |
straight. This guidance flies in the
face of the Supreme Court decision | 3:51:09 | 3:51:15 | |
which my honourable friend raised
earlier. I was disappointed that | 3:51:15 | 3:51:23 | |
when I sought an undertaking from
the Prime Minister that the Home | 3:51:23 | 3:51:27 | |
Office would stop this practice of
deporting LGBT plus people to | 3:51:27 | 3:51:30 | |
Afghanistan with the instruction
they pretend to be straight, she was | 3:51:30 | 3:51:35 | |
not able to give me that undertaking
on the spot. If she wants to go to | 3:51:35 | 3:51:40 | |
the pink News awards and be lauded
as an advocate of LGBT rights, she | 3:51:40 | 3:51:44 | |
should know what is going on in her
government, and she did not seem | 3:51:44 | 3:51:47 | |
too. I am glad the Home Secretary
has approached me and said she will | 3:51:47 | 3:51:52 | |
look into the issue carefully. There
was also the issue of the fact that | 3:51:52 | 3:51:57 | |
in this country, one of the few
countries in Europe that detain | 3:51:57 | 3:52:01 | |
people who have come here as LGBT
asylum seekers. On this very day a | 3:52:01 | 3:52:09 | |
year ago, Stonewall and the UK
lesbian and Gay immigration group, | 3:52:09 | 3:52:13 | |
and I would like to pay tribute to
them in assisting me to prepare my | 3:52:13 | 3:52:18 | |
short speech today, on this very day
a era ago, they produced a report | 3:52:18 | 3:52:24 | |
called no safe refuge, which
detailed the experiences of asylum | 3:52:24 | 3:52:28 | |
seekers in detention in this
country, people who have come to | 3:52:28 | 3:52:32 | |
these countries of the United
Kingdom seeking sanctuary from the | 3:52:32 | 3:52:35 | |
countries we have been discussing
today, and who have been held in UK | 3:52:35 | 3:52:39 | |
detention centres. They found that
in those detention centres, people | 3:52:39 | 3:52:43 | |
have been asked about their past and
have had bad experiences, homophobic | 3:52:43 | 3:52:48 | |
experiences with staff and other
asylum seekers, and their physical | 3:52:48 | 3:52:52 | |
and emotional well-being has been
affected in detention, and also | 3:52:52 | 3:52:55 | |
their access to health and legal
services. The report exposed many | 3:52:55 | 3:53:03 | |
lapses in standards, with staff
often ill-equipped to deal with LGBT | 3:53:03 | 3:53:07 | |
people. Many of these people
interviewed recounted shocking | 3:53:07 | 3:53:11 | |
instances of homophobia at every
level of our system, from guards, | 3:53:11 | 3:53:18 | |
other detainees, interpreters and
even legal representatives. So we | 3:53:18 | 3:53:21 | |
really need to address the issue of
how we treat people who come to the | 3:53:21 | 3:53:26 | |
UK looking for sanctuary, fleeing
persecution in other countries | 3:53:26 | 3:53:29 | |
because they are LGBT plus. My
office spoke with Paul Delaine this | 3:53:29 | 3:53:34 | |
morning, the executive director at
UK LG Iggy. He told me that one year | 3:53:34 | 3:53:40 | |
since the publication of this report
into the treatment of LGBT asylum | 3:53:40 | 3:53:47 | |
seekers in detention, he is still
awaiting a formal response from the | 3:53:47 | 3:53:50 | |
government. So if we want to promote
ourselves in the United Kingdom as | 3:53:50 | 3:53:57 | |
supportive of LGBT plus rights, and
if we want to stand here and | 3:53:57 | 3:54:00 | |
criticise other countries who are
not, we must, cross-party, address | 3:54:00 | 3:54:05 | |
the issue of the disgraceful
treatment some LGBT plus asylum | 3:54:05 | 3:54:11 | |
seekers and refugees raise, receive
in the United Kingdom, and I hope | 3:54:11 | 3:54:16 | |
the minister responding to the
debate will note what I have said | 3:54:16 | 3:54:19 | |
and pass it on to the relevant
department. It simply will not do to | 3:54:19 | 3:54:26 | |
pose as great defenders of LGBTI
plus rights when we treat people who | 3:54:26 | 3:54:29 | |
come to this country seeking
sanctuary so badly. Thank you, Madam | 3:54:29 | 3:54:38 | |
Deputy Speaker. I want to thank the
honourable member for securing this | 3:54:38 | 3:54:42 | |
important debate. It has been a very
good and important discussion. We | 3:54:42 | 3:54:50 | |
have heard important and moving
contributions from all sides of the | 3:54:50 | 3:54:52 | |
house. The member for Bristol East
paid tribute activists around the | 3:54:52 | 3:55:00 | |
world who have been murdered and
talked about our leveraging our | 3:55:00 | 3:55:03 | |
country that we have with trade
talks post Brexit. The member for | 3:55:03 | 3:55:09 | |
Ribble Valley talked about gay
players in football. I do think the | 3:55:09 | 3:55:13 | |
FA have to change considerably
before we see that happen. And the | 3:55:13 | 3:55:18 | |
member from Liverpool and West Derby
talked about sustainable development | 3:55:18 | 3:55:22 | |
goals and paid tribute to trade
unions in their role in LGBT rights. | 3:55:22 | 3:55:26 | |
And the member for Reigate gave a
moving account of his lived | 3:55:26 | 3:55:30 | |
experience of coming out. Madam
Deputy Speaker, tragically, of the | 3:55:30 | 3:55:37 | |
LGBT people killed in the Americas
in 2013-2014, 46% were Transworld | 3:55:37 | 3:55:44 | |
in. Also, more than 2000 transgender
and gender diverse people were | 3:55:44 | 3:55:51 | |
murdered in 65 countries between
2008-2015, according to the | 3:55:51 | 3:55:56 | |
trans-murder monitoring project.
This is tragic. Although, Madam | 3:55:56 | 3:56:04 | |
Deputy Speaker, Labour has led the
way off and on LGBT plus rights, as | 3:56:04 | 3:56:08 | |
we speak about the global situation,
as has been said just now, it is | 3:56:08 | 3:56:13 | |
important that in the UK we get our
own house in order. And people | 3:56:13 | 3:56:18 | |
fleeing prosecution often end up on
our shores. Therefore, how we treat | 3:56:18 | 3:56:24 | |
people fleeing violence, persecution
and death is vital and important in | 3:56:24 | 3:56:28 | |
this battlefield human rights. Madam
Deputy Speaker, as the honourable | 3:56:28 | 3:56:34 | |
member for Edinburgh South West, I
was disappointed to read the | 3:56:34 | 3:56:40 | |
Guardian article in particular were
deported gay Afghans were told to | 3:56:40 | 3:56:44 | |
pretend to be straight. Yesterday
the Prime Minister on the floor of | 3:56:44 | 3:56:47 | |
the house said that it was her
government that changed the walls on | 3:56:47 | 3:56:51 | |
asylum seekers who faced persecution
in their home of origin because of | 3:56:51 | 3:56:54 | |
their identity. -- changed the
rules. This is true, because in June | 3:56:54 | 3:57:02 | |
2010, the Supreme Court found it was
not lawful for the Home Office to | 3:57:02 | 3:57:07 | |
apply a reasonably tolerable test to
determining whether an individual | 3:57:07 | 3:57:10 | |
could avoid the risk of future
persecution by concealing their | 3:57:10 | 3:57:14 | |
sexual identity in their country of
origin. But Madam Deputy Speaker, | 3:57:14 | 3:57:19 | |
although the Coalition Government
welcomed the decision, this | 3:57:19 | 3:57:22 | |
government is still sending out
letters like this one. The Home | 3:57:22 | 3:57:25 | |
Office sent this to a frightened
LGBT plus person. " You claim to | 3:57:25 | 3:57:34 | |
have a well founded fear of
persecution in Bangladesh on the | 3:57:34 | 3:57:37 | |
basis of sexual orientation. I have
considered your claim on the | 3:57:37 | 3:57:41 | |
Secretary of State. You have not
shown there are substantial grounds | 3:57:41 | 3:57:45 | |
for believing you face a real risk
of suffering serious harm. It | 3:57:45 | 3:57:51 | |
technologies that Bangladesh makes
homosexuality unlawful," | 3:57:51 | 3:58:00 | |
technologies that Bangladesh makes
homosexuality unlawful,". I am | 3:58:00 | 3:58:01 | |
ashamed to read this out, but it
ends with "It is considered that you | 3:58:01 | 3:58:05 | |
do not have such a high profile in
Bangladesh". Madam Deputy Speaker, I | 3:58:05 | 3:58:11 | |
am stunned by that, shocked, and I
don't know what it means in its | 3:58:11 | 3:58:17 | |
entirety. But our asylum policy
should not be based on whether | 3:58:17 | 3:58:21 | |
someone has a high profile, or
whether they have money, or anything | 3:58:21 | 3:58:24 | |
else but the laws of our country
applied equally, fairly and | 3:58:24 | 3:58:28 | |
compassionately. Madam Deputy
Speaker, there is an garment | 3:58:28 | 3:58:34 | |
referred to as the Anne Frank
principle will stop Lord Justice | 3:58:34 | 3:58:39 | |
Peel stated, it would be no defence
to a claim that Al Frank paced well | 3:58:39 | 3:58:43 | |
funded fear of persecution in 1942.
To say she was safe in a comfortable | 3:58:43 | 3:58:50 | |
attic, and she left the attic, a
human activity, could reasonably be | 3:58:50 | 3:58:54 | |
expected to enjoy her Jewish
identity, would have led to her | 3:58:54 | 3:58:57 | |
persecution. Refugee status cannot
be denied by expecting a person to | 3:58:57 | 3:59:03 | |
conceal aspects of identity, or
suppress behaviour the person should | 3:59:03 | 3:59:06 | |
be allowed to express. This
government action puts them at odds | 3:59:06 | 3:59:12 | |
with the United Nations guidelines
on refugees, United born free and | 3:59:12 | 3:59:17 | |
equal report 2012, whose five
pillars are, protect, prevent, | 3:59:17 | 3:59:22 | |
repeal, prohibit and safeguard.
Despite positive developments in | 3:59:22 | 3:59:28 | |
most countries, including ours,
there remains a lack of | 3:59:28 | 3:59:32 | |
comprehensive policies to address
rights violations against LGBT plus | 3:59:32 | 3:59:36 | |
and intersex people. There is a
concern that cases that have already | 3:59:36 | 3:59:42 | |
reached the appeal rights exhausted
stage are not that needs to be | 3:59:42 | 3:59:48 | |
revisited. I hope the Minister will
address this to the house. In | 3:59:48 | 3:59:54 | |
regards to domestic policies, it is
necessary, I know, to always talk | 3:59:54 | 3:59:58 | |
about what a Labour government will
do all in LGBT plus rights. And I | 3:59:58 | 4:00:03 | |
refer to our manifesto at this
point. A Labour government will | 4:00:03 | 4:00:08 | |
reform the gender recognition act
and equality Act 2010 as an intent | 4:00:08 | 4:00:11 | |
to ensure they protect trans people
in changing the protected | 4:00:11 | 4:00:15 | |
characteristics of gender assignment
to gender identity. A Labour | 4:00:15 | 4:00:19 | |
government will bring the law on
LGBT hate crimes into line with hate | 4:00:19 | 4:00:22 | |
crimes based on race, faith and
making them aggravated offences. We | 4:00:22 | 4:00:27 | |
will tackle bullying of LGBT young
people and Labour will ensure that | 4:00:27 | 4:00:31 | |
all teachers and health and social
workers receive initial and ongoing | 4:00:31 | 4:00:34 | |
training. The member for Reigate
will be interested that a Labour | 4:00:34 | 4:00:39 | |
government will ensure that NHS
England completes the trial | 4:00:39 | 4:00:46 | |
programme provided as quickly as
possible and fully roll out the | 4:00:46 | 4:00:49 | |
treatment to high-risk groups to
reduce HIV-infected. And Labour will | 4:00:49 | 4:00:55 | |
appoint a dedicated global
ambassadors for women's rights, LGBT | 4:00:55 | 4:00:59 | |
plus rights and religious freedoms,
to fight discrimination and promote | 4:00:59 | 4:01:03 | |
equality globally. Madam Deputy
Speaker, I conclude, three months | 4:01:03 | 4:01:09 | |
ago the Prime Minister said that her
own party's record on LGBT rights, | 4:01:09 | 4:01:13 | |
she said this. I act knowledge where
we have been wrong on these issues | 4:01:13 | 4:01:17 | |
in the past. There will be,
justifiably, scepticism about the | 4:01:17 | 4:01:21 | |
positions taken and post carts
through the years by the | 4:01:21 | 4:01:25 | |
Conservative government, party and
me. -- and votes cast. I would like | 4:01:25 | 4:01:30 | |
to help the Prime Minister and the
government. This has been a | 4:01:30 | 4:01:34 | |
conciliatory debate today. I would
like to help to ease this | 4:01:34 | 4:01:38 | |
scepticism. The government now has a
close working relationship with the | 4:01:38 | 4:01:42 | |
DUP. Will the Minister, when he
rises to his feet, make clear to the | 4:01:42 | 4:01:48 | |
house that he will help legalise
same-sex marriage in Northern | 4:01:48 | 4:01:50 | |
Ireland? Madam Deputy Speaker, human
rights are important to all humans. | 4:01:50 | 4:01:57 | |
Let's lead the way in the UK. | 4:01:57 | 4:02:04 | |
Thank you very much. Can I start by
congratulating my right honourable | 4:02:04 | 4:02:08 | |
friend for securing this debate and
a very powerful opening Speech. As | 4:02:08 | 4:02:15 | |
the chair of the parliamentary
group, he knows how important it is | 4:02:15 | 4:02:21 | |
that we tackle widespread violence
and discrimination against LGBT | 4:02:21 | 4:02:27 | |
people around the world and I pay
tribute to him for his energy and | 4:02:27 | 4:02:31 | |
commitment that he gives to this
cause. This has been an excellent | 4:02:31 | 4:02:37 | |
debate with many powerful and moving
speeches, including by the member | 4:02:37 | 4:02:41 | |
for Milton Keynes South and four
Ochil and South Perthshire and the | 4:02:41 | 4:02:46 | |
honourable member for Livingston and
for Hove. We are marking 50 years | 4:02:46 | 4:02:55 | |
since the partial decriminalisation
of, sexuality and England and Wales | 4:02:55 | 4:02:58 | |
and over the past 50 years, this
country has made considerable | 4:02:58 | 4:03:03 | |
progress, including introducing
same-sex marriage in 2013, | 4:03:03 | 4:03:07 | |
equalising gay age of consent and
introducing the gender recognition | 4:03:07 | 4:03:13 | |
act in 2004. The effect of
successive governments efforts in | 4:03:13 | 4:03:18 | |
recent decades means the UK has one
of the strongest legislative | 4:03:18 | 4:03:22 | |
frameworks in the world for LGBT
people. Yet, we also know that LGBT | 4:03:22 | 4:03:28 | |
people still experience
discrimination in their day-to-day | 4:03:28 | 4:03:31 | |
lives. The Government is committed
to eliminating or prejudice and | 4:03:31 | 4:03:34 | |
discrimination against LGBT people
in this country wherever its last | 4:03:34 | 4:03:41 | |
vestiges remain. As has been pointed
out, it begins in school, it is | 4:03:41 | 4:03:47 | |
important that schools are truly
inclusive for LGBT pupils and the | 4:03:47 | 4:03:52 | |
Government wants to tackle the
policing but sadly happens all too | 4:03:52 | 4:03:56 | |
often and this is why we're running
£80 million anti-bullying programme | 4:03:56 | 4:04:00 | |
to tackle bullying. Young people
should feel safe to be open at | 4:04:00 | 4:04:08 | |
school, so they can focus on their
studies. We announced in July. I | 4:04:08 | 4:04:13 | |
give way. I would seek clarity in
relation to the issue of sex | 4:04:13 | 4:04:20 | |
education, which the Government and
making compulsory and I welcome | 4:04:20 | 4:04:24 | |
that. Particularly what he thinks
should be done in terms of LGBT | 4:04:24 | 4:04:28 | |
rights within that but also within
faith schools, where of course they | 4:04:28 | 4:04:32 | |
have a different approach to that
issue. We will be consulting on the | 4:04:32 | 4:04:39 | |
content of RSC and relationships
education shortly but we didn't want | 4:04:39 | 4:04:44 | |
to ensure it is LGBT inclusive. We
announced in July that the | 4:04:44 | 4:04:48 | |
Government wants to consult on the
reform of the gender recognition act | 4:04:48 | 4:04:53 | |
to ensure we provide the best
support for transgender people. We | 4:04:53 | 4:04:58 | |
know that many trans people now find
the focus on medical checks in the | 4:04:58 | 4:05:03 | |
gender recognition process very
intrusive and stigmatising. In July, | 4:05:03 | 4:05:07 | |
the Government launched a national
LGBT survey to help us understand | 4:05:07 | 4:05:11 | |
the experiences of LGBT people in
Britain. This survey closed earlier | 4:05:11 | 4:05:14 | |
this month and the response we
received to the survey was | 4:05:14 | 4:05:18 | |
unprecedented. With well over
100,000 responses, which makes it | 4:05:18 | 4:05:24 | |
one of the largest surveys of its
kind in the world and it will be | 4:05:24 | 4:05:28 | |
hugely important in policy
development on LGBT issues. One of | 4:05:28 | 4:05:32 | |
the areas of focus for the LGBT
group was on LGBT asylum seekers, | 4:05:32 | 4:05:41 | |
and issue also raised by another
member. We are focusing on building | 4:05:41 | 4:05:49 | |
an inclusive society and an
important element of this is | 4:05:49 | 4:05:53 | |
ensuring Britain is a safe haven for
those who may be experiencing | 4:05:53 | 4:05:57 | |
persecution and abuse because they
are LGBT. We must make sure that | 4:05:57 | 4:06:03 | |
LGBT people seeking to escape
extreme discrimination are safe in | 4:06:03 | 4:06:06 | |
this country whilst their claims are
being processed. That is why in | 4:06:06 | 4:06:12 | |
September, the Government introduced
the adult at risk concept into | 4:06:12 | 4:06:15 | |
decision-making on immigration. In
this concept acts on the assumption | 4:06:15 | 4:06:19 | |
of vulnerable people who may be at
risk of particular harm in detention | 4:06:19 | 4:06:23 | |
should not be detained. And then
builds on an existing legal | 4:06:23 | 4:06:27 | |
framework. We have worked closely
with organisations such as | 4:06:27 | 4:06:31 | |
Stonewall, the UK Lesbian and Gay
immigration group in the | 4:06:31 | 4:06:43 | |
UK High Commissioner for refugees to
develop guidance and training for | 4:06:44 | 4:06:46 | |
staff in detention centres. We
continue to liaise with these groups | 4:06:46 | 4:06:49 | |
to consider what further
improvements can be made. As a world | 4:06:49 | 4:06:51 | |
leader on LGBT quality, this country
has a moral duty to work to improve | 4:06:51 | 4:06:54 | |
the lives of LGBT people living in
other countries. It is sadly the | 4:06:54 | 4:06:58 | |
case that homosexuality is still
illegal in 72 countries and | 4:06:58 | 4:07:01 | |
punishable by death in eight, this
Government remains committed to | 4:07:01 | 4:07:08 | |
working with like-minded countries
and with equal rights coalition of | 4:07:08 | 4:07:11 | |
which the UK is a founding member,
to stand up for LGBT rights | 4:07:11 | 4:07:14 | |
internationally. At the highest
levels of Government, we are | 4:07:14 | 4:07:19 | |
challenging those who inflict or
allow discrimination against LGBT | 4:07:19 | 4:07:23 | |
people and we urge those countries
which continued to criminalise | 4:07:23 | 4:07:27 | |
same-sex relationships, to take
steps towards decriminalisation and | 4:07:27 | 4:07:31 | |
we urge all countries to ensure they
have legislation that protects LGBT | 4:07:31 | 4:07:36 | |
people from all forms of
discrimination. Madame Deputy | 4:07:36 | 4:07:40 | |
Speaker, my right hon friend, the
member for Aaron Doran South Downs, | 4:07:40 | 4:07:44 | |
raised the issue of funding of local
LGBT groups internationally. We have | 4:07:44 | 4:07:49 | |
committed over £1.6 million from the
Magna Carta fund for human rights | 4:07:49 | 4:07:56 | |
and democracy to project is working
to promote and protect LGBT rights | 4:07:56 | 4:07:59 | |
and this includes £350,000 for the
UN free and equal campaign. And | 4:07:59 | 4:08:04 | |
lastly, the UK supported the
establishment of the United | 4:08:04 | 4:08:09 | |
Nations's first ever independent
expert on sexual orientation and | 4:08:09 | 4:08:13 | |
gender identity and we vigorously
defended his mandate when it was | 4:08:13 | 4:08:17 | |
challenged by other states. We truly
regret the resignation of the | 4:08:17 | 4:08:21 | |
independent expert due to ill-health
and commend the professor for his | 4:08:21 | 4:08:26 | |
work. It is vital that a successor
be found quickly to continue this | 4:08:26 | 4:08:31 | |
important work that we shall
continue to support this mandate. | 4:08:31 | 4:08:36 | |
The member for Ribble Valley and
also for Eastleigh raised the issue | 4:08:36 | 4:08:42 | |
of rainbow flags. We are proud to
fly the rainbow flag on our | 4:08:42 | 4:08:46 | |
buildings, both at home and abroad,
for a key events in the LGBT | 4:08:46 | 4:08:50 | |
calendar, like the gay pride events.
And we work closely to ensure that | 4:08:50 | 4:08:58 | |
flags were flown around the world
and will continue to do so and I | 4:08:58 | 4:09:01 | |
hope the flag will be flown in as
many countries as possible. I won't | 4:09:01 | 4:09:06 | |
give way, this is running out of
time. Turning to the Commonwealth, | 4:09:06 | 4:09:11 | |
it is currently the case that 36 out
of 52 Commonwealth countries still | 4:09:11 | 4:09:15 | |
criminalise all sexuality. The UK
Government has a special duty and | 4:09:15 | 4:09:19 | |
responsibility to help change hearts
and minds and our fellow, most | 4:09:19 | 4:09:22 | |
countries. Next April, we host the
Commonwealth summit in London and | 4:09:22 | 4:09:26 | |
Windsor and will be using this
opportunity to make sure we discuss | 4:09:26 | 4:09:29 | |
the important issue of LGBT equality
in the Commonwealth. Many members | 4:09:29 | 4:09:34 | |
raised during this debate concerns
about particular countries and the | 4:09:34 | 4:09:42 | |
tragic difficulties faced by LGBT
people in countries around the | 4:09:42 | 4:09:45 | |
world. This year, there have been
numerous reports regarding the | 4:09:45 | 4:09:50 | |
horrific situation in Chechnya for
LGBT people, the UK was amongst the | 4:09:50 | 4:09:55 | |
first countries to express concern
about the persecution of LGBT people | 4:09:55 | 4:10:00 | |
in Chechnya and we continue to lobby
the Russian Government to properly | 4:10:00 | 4:10:05 | |
investigate and to hold perpetrators
to account. On the 13th of April, | 4:10:05 | 4:10:10 | |
the Foreign Secretary co-signed a
letter to Russian Foreign Minister | 4:10:10 | 4:10:13 | |
Sergei Lavrov, common in the Russian
Government to investigate and ensure | 4:10:13 | 4:10:18 | |
the safety of journalists and
activists investigating these | 4:10:18 | 4:10:21 | |
abuses. Officials at our embassy in
Moscow have also raised concerns | 4:10:21 | 4:10:26 | |
that a senior level with the Russian
Ministry of foreign affairs. We're | 4:10:26 | 4:10:29 | |
also concerned about the recent
crackdown on LGBT in Egypt. The | 4:10:29 | 4:10:35 | |
Egyptian Government is well aware of
our position on LGBT rights and we | 4:10:35 | 4:10:39 | |
have called on the Government of
Egypt to uphold and protect the | 4:10:39 | 4:10:43 | |
rights of all minorities in the
country. We are concerned about | 4:10:43 | 4:10:46 | |
reports that suggest that some LGBT
people detained in Egypt are being | 4:10:46 | 4:10:52 | |
tortured and we continue to monitor
human rights in Egypt and continue | 4:10:52 | 4:10:56 | |
to urge the Government to urge the
human rights areas of its own | 4:10:56 | 4:11:06 | |
constitution. -- to implement the
human rights areas. Also, in | 4:11:06 | 4:11:16 | |
Azerbaijan, there have been arrests
and detentions, and we are | 4:11:16 | 4:11:20 | |
monitoring human rights in that
country and we regularly pressed the | 4:11:20 | 4:11:23 | |
Azeri Government to meet its
international obligations to protect | 4:11:23 | 4:11:26 | |
the rights of all its citizens,
including those who are LGBT. | 4:11:26 | 4:11:31 | |
Officials from the Foreign and
Commonwealth Office have raised | 4:11:31 | 4:11:34 | |
specific reports with the Government
of Azerbaijan and we have received | 4:11:34 | 4:11:38 | |
assurances that those arrested have
now been released. The honourable | 4:11:38 | 4:11:45 | |
member for Liverpool West Derby
raised concerns about Tanzania and | 4:11:45 | 4:11:48 | |
we are again very concerned by
increased anti-homosexual rhetoric | 4:11:48 | 4:11:54 | |
and deteriorating environment for
LGBT people in Tanzania. Our High | 4:11:54 | 4:11:59 | |
Commission along with partners and
international LGBT organisations in | 4:11:59 | 4:12:02 | |
Dar es Salaam are closely monitoring
the situation and is a close friend | 4:12:02 | 4:12:06 | |
and partner of Tanzania, we have
conversations about this issue and | 4:12:06 | 4:12:10 | |
many other human rights issues with
the Government. My honourable | 4:12:10 | 4:12:14 | |
friend, the member for Reigate,
raised the issue of prep. NHS | 4:12:14 | 4:12:21 | |
England and Public Health England
announced last year that up to £10 | 4:12:21 | 4:12:26 | |
million is to be made available to
run a three-year trial for prep to | 4:12:26 | 4:12:31 | |
answer outstanding questions about
future access and implementation of | 4:12:31 | 4:12:35 | |
this drug. The trial is aiming to
establish the most effective way to | 4:12:35 | 4:12:39 | |
distribute the drug to have the
greatest impact on reducing the | 4:12:39 | 4:12:42 | |
spread of HIV. The honourable member
for Bristol East raised the issue of | 4:12:42 | 4:12:51 | |
the business of human rights action
plan. Last year, the Government | 4:12:51 | 4:12:55 | |
published guidance for businesses to
implement the UN guiding principles | 4:12:55 | 4:13:00 | |
on business and human rights and the
Saky reaffirms the UK's commitment | 4:13:00 | 4:13:03 | |
to the implementation of the UN's
guiding principles. This has been a | 4:13:03 | 4:13:11 | |
hugely important debates, sending
the united message from this | 4:13:11 | 4:13:17 | |
Parliament to all those countries
that criminalise being LGBT to take | 4:13:17 | 4:13:21 | |
steps towards decriminalisation, to
be criminalise something that is | 4:13:21 | 4:13:26 | |
simply a part of an individual
nature. During the course of this | 4:13:26 | 4:13:38 | |
debate, I learned that 30 lawyers
and activists in Tanzania had just | 4:13:38 | 4:13:42 | |
been released on bail, they had been
arrested last week and charged with | 4:13:42 | 4:13:48 | |
the so-called crime promoting
sexuality. This crime does not exist | 4:13:48 | 4:13:55 | |
under Tanzania's penal code. They
were released on bail and then | 4:13:55 | 4:14:00 | |
rearrested. Their so-called crime
was simply to challenge the | 4:14:00 | 4:14:06 | |
country's circuitry than on HIV care
centres and during the course of | 4:14:06 | 4:14:13 | |
their detention in Dar es Salaam,
the police supplied to the courts in | 4:14:13 | 4:14:18 | |
Tanzania to undertake on these
individuals forced medical | 4:14:18 | 4:14:25 | |
examinations to establish whether or
not they were homosexual. | 4:14:25 | 4:14:31 | |
Fortunately, the courts denied that
application. If ever there were a | 4:14:31 | 4:14:35 | |
more sober reminder of what is
happening around the world in | 4:14:35 | 4:14:41 | |
countries which as my right
honourable friend, the minister, has | 4:14:41 | 4:14:45 | |
just said, are friends of our own
country, which are members of the | 4:14:45 | 4:14:50 | |
Commonwealth, countries that have
signed up to UN and Commonwealth | 4:14:50 | 4:14:53 | |
charter commitments, it was this
example. It has been right across | 4:14:53 | 4:15:00 | |
this house, on an entirely
nonpartisan basis, honourable | 4:15:00 | 4:15:03 | |
members from all have spoken out
against these terrible abuses of | 4:15:03 | 4:15:10 | |
LGBT rights, which are abuses of
human rights. And we have sent a | 4:15:10 | 4:15:16 | |
signal today and I'm grateful that
both Her Majesty's opposition and | 4:15:16 | 4:15:20 | |
Government have reinforced that
signal, that these abuses of LGBT | 4:15:20 | 4:15:25 | |
rights cannot be tolerated and that
we expect and look upon the | 4:15:25 | 4:15:30 | |
authorities in these countries to
uphold these universal commitments, | 4:15:30 | 4:15:35 | |
to which every country has signed
up. We should not be fearful of | 4:15:35 | 4:15:41 | |
taking a stance on these issues
because activists in these countries | 4:15:41 | 4:15:46 | |
are looking to us, their friends and
allies, to make such a stance and I | 4:15:46 | 4:15:53 | |
am grateful to honourable members on
all sites for doing so today. The | 4:15:53 | 4:16:00 | |
question is that this house has
considered a global LGBT rights, as | 4:16:00 | 4:16:10 | |
many are of the opinion, say I. The
ayes have it. | 4:16:10 | 4:16:20 | |
I think we can take motions two and
three on privilege and standards | 4:16:20 | 4:16:24 | |
together. I beg to move. The
question is as on the order paper. I | 4:16:24 | 4:16:35 | |
think the ayes have it.
The question is that a German. That | 4:16:35 | 4:16:52 | |
this House do now adjourn. The
notice advising that you were the | 4:16:52 | 4:17:03 | |
Minister answering the last debate
of the week was met with a groan. Is | 4:17:03 | 4:17:07 | |
the Minister aware that the M25
junction ten is where the A3 and the | 4:17:07 | 4:17:14 | |
M25 link? The traffic is such that
it is probably the biggest | 4:17:14 | 4:17:20 | |
interchange in the UK, with the
highest accident record, I believe, | 4:17:20 | 4:17:25 | |
and experiences frequent disruption
and jams in both directions on the | 4:17:25 | 4:17:29 | |
A3 as well as contributing to M25
jams. Delays for miles around. As | 4:17:29 | 4:17:36 | |
the main link between the south-east
and London the demand on the A3 and | 4:17:36 | 4:17:41 | |
a junction is growing and will
continue to do so. On the western | 4:17:41 | 4:17:44 | |
border of the A3, just south of
junction ten is the world-famous | 4:17:44 | 4:17:49 | |
world or to cult in society gardens.
To those without a compass, it is on | 4:17:49 | 4:17:54 | |
the left of the A3, just before the
M25, if you are driving towards | 4:17:54 | 4:17:59 | |
London. Access, at the moment, is
off the A3, directly, or if you are | 4:17:59 | 4:18:06 | |
driving towards London, or coming in
the opposite direction, near the | 4:18:06 | 4:18:11 | |
roundabout. There is a slip road to
the entrance and a similar slip road | 4:18:11 | 4:18:17 | |
onto the Arfon three on exciting. It
is adequate but not appreciably | 4:18:17 | 4:18:22 | |
signposted. I am sure the Minister
is -- aware of the importance of the | 4:18:22 | 4:18:27 | |
gardens. It is the UK's centre of
excellence for horticultural | 4:18:27 | 4:18:32 | |
science, research and education. And
I am not just meaning the | 4:18:32 | 4:18:38 | |
world-class, high standard
horticultural educational research | 4:18:38 | 4:18:40 | |
it undertakes, but also the annual
influx of about 18,000 | 4:18:40 | 4:18:44 | |
schoolchildren from over 450
schools. And then you add the 1.2 | 4:18:44 | 4:18:50 | |
million people of the general public
who flood in annually. I suggest to | 4:18:50 | 4:18:54 | |
the Minister if he is ever going to
visit, visit and park your car early | 4:18:54 | 4:19:00 | |
because you will walk for half a
mile to get in. That is the demand. | 4:19:00 | 4:19:05 | |
Hence, I must declare myself an
interest, as most of my family | 4:19:05 | 4:19:09 | |
belong to the RHS and visit
regularly. The miniature insects are | 4:19:09 | 4:19:16 | |
absolutely fascinated, as they tear
around the garden and try not to | 4:19:16 | 4:19:22 | |
fall into the pools and ponds. 240
acres of historic and horticultural | 4:19:22 | 4:19:28 | |
delight. It employs 400 staff and
has 250 volunteers. They are a third | 4:19:28 | 4:19:34 | |
of the way through a £650 million
investment development programme. | 4:19:34 | 4:19:41 | |
£650 million for a charity in this
country is some programme. This will | 4:19:41 | 4:19:46 | |
lift the numbers of full-time jobs
by 60 and they anticipate visitor | 4:19:46 | 4:19:49 | |
numbers will lift to not far short
of 1.5 million annually. This will | 4:19:49 | 4:19:55 | |
bring became elated benefit impact
locally over ten years to about 1 | 4:19:55 | 4:19:58 | |
billion. Because of its location,
there is no realistic public | 4:19:58 | 4:20:04 | |
transport and also, realistically,
no prospect of it. As one drives or | 4:20:04 | 4:20:11 | |
calls along the A3, one would be
forgiven for not knowing the gardens | 4:20:11 | 4:20:16 | |
are next to it. The gardens and
ancient woodlands are buffered by a | 4:20:16 | 4:20:21 | |
well planted shield with over 500
mature trees, many, if not most, | 4:20:21 | 4:20:26 | |
over 100 years old. I accept major
improvements to the junction are | 4:20:26 | 4:20:32 | |
necessary. It is glaringly obvious.
The RHS except this and highways | 4:20:32 | 4:20:37 | |
England engineers have been working
on plans to sort the problem out. | 4:20:37 | 4:20:42 | |
The most likely plan they appear to
favour, however, hits Wisley Gardens | 4:20:42 | 4:20:46 | |
hard and dramatically. The buffer
with those trees will go. The | 4:20:46 | 4:20:52 | |
entrances and exits will be
complicated and they will add about | 4:20:52 | 4:20:56 | |
7.5 miles to the round-trip per
visitor car. This complicated | 4:20:56 | 4:21:04 | |
entrance, we believe, will be a
deterrence for visitors. Just as the | 4:21:04 | 4:21:09 | |
investment is expected to increase,
just as it is going to help fund the | 4:21:09 | 4:21:13 | |
attraction, the deterrent will come
in. The need for direct access and | 4:21:13 | 4:21:18 | |
exit from the A3 is obvious. The
effect on local traffic through | 4:21:18 | 4:21:24 | |
villages and surrounding countryside
will be significant if this perhaps | 4:21:24 | 4:21:26 | |
preferred plan goes ahead. Indeed,
there has been considerable | 4:21:26 | 4:21:37 | |
discussion with highways England.
They are still meeting the RHS, and | 4:21:37 | 4:21:43 | |
it is very helpful. Indeed, highways
England have stated to me they are | 4:21:43 | 4:21:48 | |
not against the required south
facing slip roads, which would make | 4:21:48 | 4:21:56 | |
much of the problems. However, and
this is where the crunch comes for | 4:21:56 | 4:22:00 | |
the Minister, apparently this would
be outside the perimeter is, the | 4:22:00 | 4:22:05 | |
geographic perimeters of the scheme
currently being looked at, namely | 4:22:05 | 4:22:11 | |
the A3 road improvement scheme. The
new funding would be required, but | 4:22:11 | 4:22:15 | |
compared to the size of the previous
programme, not great. It needs a | 4:22:15 | 4:22:22 | |
business case. It would need further
consultation with local authorities | 4:22:22 | 4:22:26 | |
and perhaps landowners. It is a
further problem, but it is a | 4:22:26 | 4:22:31 | |
solution, and a solution that is
going with the grain, rather than | 4:22:31 | 4:22:35 | |
against it. A relatively small
delayed to produce a sensible scheme | 4:22:35 | 4:22:39 | |
is better than what I see as
blundering on to look back in time | 4:22:39 | 4:22:43 | |
and ask, why did we not do it right
when we had a chance? I was going to | 4:22:43 | 4:22:49 | |
ask the Minister if I could bring a
couple of RHS representatives to his | 4:22:49 | 4:22:53 | |
office. I have changed my mind.
Better than that, I am inviting him | 4:22:53 | 4:22:58 | |
to come to Wisley to actually see
it. If necessary I will personally | 4:22:58 | 4:23:03 | |
drive him from his office. Better
still, as a minister in the | 4:23:03 | 4:23:07 | |
Department for Transport, from the
local station. We will arrange free | 4:23:07 | 4:23:11 | |
entry, a short tour, a photo
opportunity, cup of coffee. RHS | 4:23:11 | 4:23:18 | |
barn. Actually, because it is an old
charity of long-standing, we were | 4:23:18 | 4:23:23 | |
actually get some Victoria cream
sponge slice for him. A visit, | 4:23:23 | 4:23:28 | |
seriously, is only -- the only way
to get the problem in perspective. | 4:23:28 | 4:23:34 | |
Looking at maps is not the same as
looking at the trees. I want us to | 4:23:34 | 4:23:39 | |
get it right. Right for generations
to come over the next decades, | 4:23:39 | 4:23:43 | |
running into the next century,
bearing in mind that Wisley Gardens | 4:23:43 | 4:23:46 | |
has been going for essential you. I
would hate my honourable friend to | 4:23:46 | 4:23:51 | |
be the one who was named by Wisley
visitors and asked, why didn't he | 4:23:51 | 4:23:56 | |
get it right when he had a chance?
Thank you very much indeed, Madam | 4:23:56 | 4:24:05 | |
Deputy Speaker. I congratulate my
honourable friend on securing this | 4:24:05 | 4:24:09 | |
important debate about highways
England's planned improvements to | 4:24:09 | 4:24:13 | |
the M25 junction ten near Wisley.
This scheme has attracted a great | 4:24:13 | 4:24:19 | |
deal of public and parliamentary
interest and highways England have | 4:24:19 | 4:24:22 | |
been listening carefully to all that
has been said, including I am sure | 4:24:22 | 4:24:27 | |
very eloquently tonight by the
honourable gentleman. I am delighted | 4:24:27 | 4:24:32 | |
that this government is delivering
what is overall the most ambitious | 4:24:32 | 4:24:36 | |
modernisation of England's motorways
and major roads in a generation. | 4:24:36 | 4:24:42 | |
Good transport links are critical to
our economy and its growth. That is | 4:24:42 | 4:24:46 | |
why this government is investing in
transport infrastructure up and down | 4:24:46 | 4:24:49 | |
the country. We are spending £15
billion, Madam Deputy Speaker, on | 4:24:49 | 4:24:57 | |
schemes between 2015-2021, across
England, that will connect people | 4:24:57 | 4:25:03 | |
and businesses together, creating
the right conditions for economic | 4:25:03 | 4:25:06 | |
prosperity and growth. And, as the
house will be aware, planning is | 4:25:06 | 4:25:12 | |
already well under way for the
second road investment strategy. | 4:25:12 | 4:25:16 | |
These great programmes of investment
must be delivered in a way that | 4:25:16 | 4:25:20 | |
respects our environment, keeps the
network of roads free-flowing, and | 4:25:20 | 4:25:24 | |
makes our roads as safe as possible
for those that travel and work on | 4:25:24 | 4:25:28 | |
them. These are all considerations
that highways England are taking | 4:25:28 | 4:25:31 | |
into account in the development of
this present scheme. In December | 4:25:31 | 4:25:39 | |
2014, the government launched the
first road investment strategy, | 4:25:39 | 4:25:42 | |
which outlined the scope of that
investment up until the year 2021. | 4:25:42 | 4:25:48 | |
The M25 junction Number Ten scheme
near Wisley is a critical component | 4:25:48 | 4:25:54 | |
of that national programme of
investment, which highways England | 4:25:54 | 4:25:58 | |
plans show will start in 2020-20
one. This junction, as my honourable | 4:25:58 | 4:26:04 | |
friend will know, is one of the
busiest road into changes in the | 4:26:04 | 4:26:09 | |
country and has one of the highest
accident rates anywhere on the | 4:26:09 | 4:26:13 | |
strategic road network. Our
investment here is, therefore, | 4:26:13 | 4:26:19 | |
important by any measure, and we are
committed to delivering a scheme | 4:26:19 | 4:26:23 | |
that will deliver a lasting benefit
for the region. I want to reassure | 4:26:23 | 4:26:29 | |
the house that I, personally,
understand the importance of RHS | 4:26:29 | 4:26:33 | |
Wisley. The land around the junction
and in the vicinity is of a very | 4:26:33 | 4:26:37 | |
high environmental designation,
including special protection areas, | 4:26:37 | 4:26:43 | |
sites of special scientific
interest, common land, ancient | 4:26:43 | 4:26:46 | |
woodland, scheduled monuments,
registered parks and gardens. It is | 4:26:46 | 4:26:51 | |
home to unique habitats and, of
course, RHS Wisley is | 4:26:51 | 4:26:56 | |
internationally recognised, as my
honourable friend said, as a | 4:26:56 | 4:26:59 | |
world-class visitor attraction which
brings 1.2 million visitors every | 4:26:59 | 4:27:05 | |
year to what is a renowned centre of
horticultural excellence. The | 4:27:05 | 4:27:11 | |
investments being made at RHS Wisley
are exciting and ambitious, and I | 4:27:11 | 4:27:16 | |
look forward to seeing the
improvements that will be delivered | 4:27:16 | 4:27:18 | |
in the coming years. These
investments and that institution is | 4:27:18 | 4:27:24 | |
something the government wishes to
support as a great national asset. | 4:27:24 | 4:27:29 | |
And the plan is being proposed by
highways England will, I am sure, do | 4:27:29 | 4:27:33 | |
exactly that, as well as improving
safety and congestion. Madam Deputy | 4:27:33 | 4:27:39 | |
Speaker, I have already alluded to
the levels of congestion on this | 4:27:39 | 4:27:42 | |
road. On a daily basis it causes
significant delays to those | 4:27:42 | 4:27:47 | |
travelling on both the A3 and the
M25. The objectives of this scheme | 4:27:47 | 4:27:54 | |
to relieve congestion, provide more
reliable journey times and flow, and | 4:27:54 | 4:27:58 | |
improve safety for everyone at a key
junction where the M25 meets the A3, | 4:27:58 | 4:28:05 | |
not omitting walkers and cyclists
who may wish to use the interchange. | 4:28:05 | 4:28:11 | |
Highways England proposals to
improve the M25 junction ten and A3 | 4:28:11 | 4:28:16 | |
interchange will also deliver
much-needed additional capacity | 4:28:16 | 4:28:18 | |
through widening that is required as
part of the scheme. With this | 4:28:18 | 4:28:25 | |
scheme, highways England has
committed to delivering improved | 4:28:25 | 4:28:28 | |
access for RHS Wisley itself,
improvements that will increase the | 4:28:28 | 4:28:32 | |
capacity of the road leading to the
gardens and make access safer for | 4:28:32 | 4:28:37 | |
everyone who visits and everyone who
works at RHS Wisley itself. Madam | 4:28:37 | 4:28:43 | |
Deputy Speaker, highways England ran
a non-statutory consultation on the | 4:28:43 | 4:28:47 | |
scheme earlier this year, along with
a number of public information | 4:28:47 | 4:28:50 | |
events. As part of that process they
have been working closely with the | 4:28:50 | 4:28:55 | |
RHS, as one of the key stakeholders,
rightly recognising the importance | 4:28:55 | 4:28:59 | |
of this site regionally and
nationally. That in gauge has been | 4:28:59 | 4:29:04 | |
constructive and helpful to both
organisations, I understand. -- that | 4:29:04 | 4:29:09 | |
engagement. RHS Wisley has expressed
three main concern is to highways | 4:29:09 | 4:29:13 | |
England in relation to access to the
gardens. The first is the potential | 4:29:13 | 4:29:19 | |
for land take and associated impact
on historic trees and habitats. The | 4:29:19 | 4:29:23 | |
second is the need to retain, as
they see it, direct access from | 4:29:23 | 4:29:28 | |
Wisley Lane onto the A3. And the
third is the additional distance | 4:29:28 | 4:29:35 | |
visitors to RHS Wisley would have to
travel under the proposed new road | 4:29:35 | 4:29:38 | |
layout. All three elements have been
mentioned by my honourable friend. I | 4:29:38 | 4:29:44 | |
recognise these concerns, as to
highways England, and I can reassure | 4:29:44 | 4:29:48 | |
my honourable friend that they are
being carefully considered. We | 4:29:48 | 4:29:52 | |
cannot use this debate to pre-empt
the formal processes which highways | 4:29:52 | 4:29:56 | |
England are committed to undertake
under process of law. It is | 4:29:56 | 4:30:00 | |
important that these are not
compromised, as they are designed to | 4:30:00 | 4:30:05 | |
enable sound public decision-making
on large-scale infrastructure | 4:30:05 | 4:30:06 | |
investments. These due processes
need to be fair to all parties. | 4:30:06 | 4:30:14 | |
Within these constraints, I have
little doubt that highways England | 4:30:14 | 4:30:17 | |
will find the optimal solution for
all, and one that minimises the | 4:30:17 | 4:30:22 | |
impact on the unique habitat and
trees at RHS Wisley. On issues of | 4:30:22 | 4:30:27 | |
access, I am advised that all
options are being carefully | 4:30:27 | 4:30:31 | |
considered and evaluated. This is an
essential step ahead of the | 4:30:31 | 4:30:35 | |
preferred route announcement for the
scheme, which I expect in the coming | 4:30:35 | 4:30:38 | |
weeks. While I am sympathetic to the
concerns I have heard over the last | 4:30:38 | 4:30:44 | |
few months, and of course this
evening from my honourable friend, I | 4:30:44 | 4:30:47 | |
must be clear that it is not
appropriate for myself or highways | 4:30:47 | 4:30:50 | |
England to consider any access
options that do not improve the | 4:30:50 | 4:30:54 | |
safety of this stretch of road, or
provide value for taxpayers' money. | 4:30:54 | 4:31:00 | |
I recognise the concerns of RHS
Wisley, the commercial concerns | 4:31:00 | 4:31:04 | |
about the distances some visitors
may need to travel under a proposed | 4:31:04 | 4:31:07 | |
new road layout, as well as their
concern that there should be | 4:31:07 | 4:31:12 | |
self-effacing slips at the
roundabout, as my honourable friend | 4:31:12 | 4:31:16 | |
has mentioned. As part of a value
for money consideration, the | 4:31:16 | 4:31:19 | |
business case must demonstrate
optimal use of resources to achieve | 4:31:19 | 4:31:23 | |
intended outcomes. But the key point
for this debate, as noted, is that | 4:31:23 | 4:31:29 | |
these commercial considerations do
not form part of the current scheme | 4:31:29 | 4:31:33 | |
proposal that highways England has
been asked and funded to deliver. | 4:31:33 | 4:31:37 | |
They could be considered as a
separate scheme in a future road | 4:31:37 | 4:31:41 | |
investment period, if appropriate,
and I am sure they would be given, | 4:31:41 | 4:31:45 | |
at that time," said rate. As
highways England moves towards a | 4:31:45 | 4:31:52 | |
preferred route announcement, I am
assured that they will continue to | 4:31:52 | 4:31:56 | |
engage with RHS Wisley. They are
carefully considering responses to | 4:31:56 | 4:32:00 | |
their consultation and will publish
the results in due course. This will | 4:32:00 | 4:32:03 | |
make sure that potential impacts on
the community are -- community and | 4:32:03 | 4:32:09 | |
environment have been considered. It
will ensure the final scheme design | 4:32:09 | 4:32:13 | |
considers all relevant responses
where applicable, and it will assure | 4:32:13 | 4:32:18 | |
that the final environmental
statement takes into account those | 4:32:18 | 4:32:21 | |
impacts and any mitigation measures
needed to address them. | 4:32:21 | 4:32:28 | |
Highways England will hold a second
consultation with the public can | 4:32:28 | 4:32:33 | |
give their views and influence the
specific development of the design. | 4:32:33 | 4:32:36 | |
I hope this encourages my honourable
friend in the view that the | 4:32:36 | 4:32:40 | |
Government and Highways England are
sensitive to the concerns he has so | 4:32:40 | 4:32:43 | |
eloquently raised this evening,
while recognising the critical | 4:32:43 | 4:32:48 | |
importance of our roads and
specifically of this junction | 4:32:48 | 4:32:50 | |
scheme, in building an economy that
works for everyone and the network | 4:32:50 | 4:32:55 | |
of highways that is safe. I have
also asked Highways England to write | 4:32:55 | 4:33:05 | |
to RHS Wisley explaining the current
position in response to the numerous | 4:33:05 | 4:33:08 | |
correspondence they have received,
as I thought to myself on behalf of | 4:33:08 | 4:33:12 | |
the Department. I cannot close
without responding to the final very | 4:33:12 | 4:33:17 | |
courteous and generous invitation
considering the manner of cake. As | 4:33:17 | 4:33:22 | |
the householder, there are no
ministers to my knowledge are | 4:33:22 | 4:33:26 | |
resistant to the charms of cake,
least of all a piece of RHS Wisley | 4:33:26 | 4:33:31 | |
Victoria sponge, as dutifully set
out. A bum would be one thing that | 4:33:31 | 4:33:37 | |
cake, I bridge to the House, is
quite a different matter, especially | 4:33:37 | 4:33:39 | |
when accompanied by a cup of tea
although I would insist upon paying | 4:33:39 | 4:33:45 | |
myself but I would be delighted to
take up this kind invitation | 4:33:45 | 4:33:49 | |
provided we're first able to see how
the matter of months after the | 4:33:49 | 4:33:52 | |
proper process of consultation has
completed. The question is that this | 4:33:52 | 4:33:59 | |
House now do adjourn. As many as are
of the opinion, say "aye". To the | 4:33:59 | 4:34:02 | |
contrary, "no". The ayes have it.
Order, order. | 4:34:02 | 4:34:16 |