26/10/2017 House of Commons


26/10/2017

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Would it be possible for that to

happen?

I am sure

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the Leader of the House will take on

board the views of the House and

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will want to check what information

was given and I am sure the House

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matters to all members and therefore

I would like to think things will be

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put in place to make sure things do

not happen like that again. We now

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come to the backbench debate on the

implementation of the modern slavery

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act 2015. Vernon Coaker to move.

Thank you. Can I refer to my

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declaration of interests in the

members register? Can I also thank

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the honourable member for Maidstone

and all the other colleagues who

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have helped bring about this

backbench business debate here this

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afternoon? Can I thank the Minister

as well for her attendants? I know

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all members are united by their

desire to do as much as we can to

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tackle the scourge of modern

slavery. Over 200 years ago,

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politicians described slavery as an

activity so enormous and horrible

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that there was no parallel to it in

the annals of the world. Wilberforce

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said it was our duty to put a stop

speediest possible to the traffic

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and sale of our fellow men, but here

we are in 2017 were slavery still

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exists in our country and the

horrible reality demands more than

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our emotional outrage, it demands

even more action on our part. Just

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15 years ago, many MPs would have

suggested that perhaps slavery did

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not exist. But thanks, and I say

this to the campaign and for many

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people in this House including

former colleagues, much has changed.

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Referrals into the Government's

mechanism for identifying rises

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year-on-year. The number of

prosecutions also rises annually. We

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have a parliament and indeed, to be

fair, a Prime Minister with a

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genuine desire to tackle this issue.

We have what was regarded and is to

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be fair, trailblazing act that

offers life sentences for

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traffickers and provides a statutory

defence against criminality for

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victims. We have additional funding

going to police, international aid

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and safe houses. And the commitment

from all of us in this House and

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those who work in the Home Office on

this issue cannot be doubted. I hope

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the Home Secretary will accept this

in the spirit that I mean it, that

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it is important to challenge where

we are, and we look at what still

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needs to be done in order to take

this issue forwards. For too often,

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what we say does not happen in

practice. Many traffickers

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themselves are not getting caught,

and those who are caught in many

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circumstances are receding minimal

sentences. And many slaves are not

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being freed. When they are, and many

are being lost, as the Minister

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knows, our children. The challenge

for us is to find them. More

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potential victims are being

identified. 3805 in 2016. I want to

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point out that 1227 of those were

actually children in our country, in

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2017. But it is still a long way, as

the minister will know, from her own

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ministerial office's estimates of

the ten to 13,000 in this country.

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So we have to ask, why is that? Why

are victims not coming forward?

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Sometimes people who should

recognise victims do not identify

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them. Local authorities have a duty

to identify but many are not. There

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has been little funding to train

their staff and as the 2016 data

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shows many local authorities find no

one at all. The second reason is we

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have little to offer the victims

when they are found. We ask victims

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to leave living under a trafficker's

roof, risking repercussion, threats

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and violence and if adults do

consent to enter the system, there

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are time-limited support, fears for

their immigration status and

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long-term uncertainty, even if at

the end of the process they are

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found to be victims. Should we be

surprised that the small numbers? If

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we are not surprised that, what is

it we're actually going to do about

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it, to actually increase that

number? The National referral

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mechanism at its heart on

traumatised people who have often

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only known betrayal to immediately

agreed to go into a government

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system. And if they don't, they have

to fend for themselves, although a

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small minority may be supported by

NGOs, with the rest receiving no

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support. One NGO found outside of

the national referral system, found

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three fifths of survivors will go

into the national referral

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mechanism, if they are given a

preliminary period of support of say

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six weeks. I would ask the Minister

if she would recognise that we need

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to do more to make sure victims feel

safe and secure entering the

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national referral mechanism and what

the Minister proposes to do. But

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there are other problems. The

statutory national recovery and

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reflection period support 45 days.

That is not in itself adequate.

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Frequent delays mean an average

since 95 days and it can take longer

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than that to access legal or health

support. And safe suitable

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accommodation is not a given. There

is not a minimum standard. Section

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50 of the slavery act gives powers

to induce regulation and support

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that these have not yet been

implemented. Entire families were

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example could be housed in one room,

sometimes hours away from any of the

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services they need, and there is

also not enough specialist

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accommodation and not just for those

with children. Traffickers often

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target those with learning

difficulties or addiction issues and

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yet our services for survivors oddly

do not. Would the Minister tell us

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what her thoughts are about

extending the amount of faith have

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provision there is for those with

specialist needs, and introduce care

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standards along the lines of

recommendations published by the

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human trafficking foundation and

supported by the Commissioner, to

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guarantee survivors receive

high-quality support. It is this

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lack of support that is a real

challenge for the system. The

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Minister will also know that the UK

has no data on what actually happens

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to victims beyond the 45 days, and

no system to ensure survivors don't

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fall back actually into

exploitation. We spent 10 million

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each year providing short-term

support, only to end the support

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once the decision is made on whether

the person is actually trafficked or

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not. The Modern Slavery Act, unlike

other acts, does not explicitly

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place a duty on the state to provide

support or state the victim's

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entitlements. Section 49 says these

will be set up in guidance but can I

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ask the minister when that guidance

is set to be published?

Thank you

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for giving way. He may not know that

this is a very important campaign

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for the co-operative party. Isn't it

the case that people who have been

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entrapped into slavery do not stop

being victims when it has been

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identified, it can take many years

for them to recover and rebuild

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their lives?

I thank my honourable

friend. That is the crucial point

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which is often why Eddie end of the

45 day period, there is a period of

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further support they may be given,

but the evidence shows the vast

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majority of people who enter that,

fall back into exploitation or

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indeed read trafficked. Something

needs to be done to deal with that.

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And again, just picking up on my

honourable friend's point, the

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police say they have referred the

same individual often into the

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national referral mechanism multiple

times.

Does the honourable member

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agree with me tracing perpetrators,

all of our anti-slavery aims

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throughout the UK including

Scotland, how will they continue to

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function effectively? Will they

function effectively once we have

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left the EU, especially if it means

we will be leaving intelligence

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sharing agencies like Europol?

I

think there will be challenges and I

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thank the honourable member for

raising that point. We have to show

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that even if we do leave the

European Union as the honourable

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member says, we have to look at how

we replicate those systems with

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whatever deal is done. It is crucial

to the victims, and I totally agree

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with that remark. Mr Deputy Speaker,

each time survivors have left safe

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houses, they remain destitute again

and targeted by traffickers. It is

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life destroying for the survivors.

Surely, and I say to the Minister,

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we have to accept that the

short-term system of support fails

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us all and we need to look both as

victims, the police and government

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and all of us at what more we could

do. If I could just finish this

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point. For example, a refugee

granted asylum receives five years

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of leave to remain in the UK. Surely

some in is recognised as enslaved

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and entitle a person to some sort of

similar provision if not indeed five

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years.

I thank the honourable

gentleman for giving way and

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congratulate him on bringing this to

the House. He is making an excellent

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speech on such an important issue.

Would he agree with me that

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domestically the justice system in

the UK is not set up to deal with

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these matters and the burden of

proof is so high for a conviction,

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that very often someone goes free

and the leave to remain is dependent

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on a conviction, when those two

things should absolutely be

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separated?

I will come onto that but

that is absolutely crucial, that

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relationship between a victim and

often are placed into and

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immigration system where they are

regarded as trafficked but they have

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no status in the UK. I know that is

something the Minister is looking at

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but it is a real problem with the

way the system operates at the

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moment. The work and pensions

committee made recommendations along

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these lines. We cannot continue to

lose so many survivors, many of them

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back to the same traffickers. As

Wilberforce himself said, you may

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choose to look the other way, but

you can never again say you did not

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know. It is upon us as legislators

to say what we actually going to do

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about this? Survivors need time and

assistance...

I thank my right

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honourable friend for giving way, he

has been generous with his time. One

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of the critical issues here is a

inspection and enforcement within

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the Labour market. Would he agree

with me that resource in that is a

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crucial point? A recent report by

focus on Labour exploitation,

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charity of which I am a trustee,

detailed how far we are lagging

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behind other countries and they

recommended levels of resource Inc.

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Is he concerned that we only have

4000 inspectors per 10,000 workers

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when Poland and Norway have twice as

many and Ireland spends twice as

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much and does he think the issue

needs to be addressed by the

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Minister?

I think my honourable

friend put the question very well.

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There is a need to look at the whole

area of labour enforcement. I know

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the cooperation between the gang

masters licensing and the Home

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Office, it is that sharing of data

and information is important. If I

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can make one other point, it is also

this case of awareness. Just last

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week in my own authority, Gedling

Borough Council, there was a farm

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and they found a victim of labour

exploitation working on their farm.

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It was found either person being

aware, a chance remark that caused

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them to question what was happening.

I think part of it was enforcement

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but it is also about raising

awareness said people may question

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what is happening in terms of trying

to report back to the appropriate

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authorities. I will give way. Can I

just say before I do give way, the

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Speaker, I have been in this House a

long time and you give way a lot,

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but you cannot have it both ways.

I'm sure that you want to finish

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within 15 minutes to give everybody

from when you started, because the

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benefit of it is, I will be putting

a time limit of seven minutes on. I

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don't want to have to reduce that to

six. Are you sure you want to?

If I

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may, thank you for giving way. As

someone who has prosecuted offences

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of servitude in the past, I am

grateful to him for the passion he

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is showing for this horrible

offence. Would he join me in Penn

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tribute to the Salvation Army who

held an event to get a message out

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that everyone needs to be on their

guard?

Can I just say on the serious

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point that the honourable member has

raised, of course I pay tribute to

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people like that in Cheltenham, but

also to all the honourable members

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of this House so I know to draw to

the authority of their areas to

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combat this crime. Mr Deputy

Speaker, survivors need time and

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assistance to access justice, but

also accessing compensation,

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something tried to recognise as

critical by the Modern Slavery Act.

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Surely we don't want to make crime

pay? Between 2004 and 2014, 211

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persons were convicted of human

trafficking and slavery. But

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according to the figures I have got,

only eight compensation orders were

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made for these crimes, amounting in

total to £70,000. It does seem to me

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that we do need to look at this

whole question of compensation for

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victims. And where the courts do

order traffickers to pay, many do

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not pay up, having moved their

assets abroad, again, something we

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need to look at and I would be

grateful if the Minister in her

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response does. Gene Simmons, a

tireless campaigner who seized an

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award from the human trafficking

foundation provides a powerful

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example of how powerful it is for

survivors to access support. Her son

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Daryl was enslaved by a traveller

family. He worked day and night for

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over 13 years for no pay. The police

refused to recognise that he was at

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risk some in the end he was found

and recognised by his own family.

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Four years after being rescued,

Daryl has still not had a penny of

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compensation and nor has he received

the sort of support that we might

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expect. It is also the case that

while the act focuses on criminal

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justice without prioritising

support, I would suggest to the

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minister we will not get the level

of prosecutions, let alone the level

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of convictions that we would want.

Prosecution and conviction rates are

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broadly rising but still remain far

too low. According to the CPS, 295

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human trafficking prosecutions were

completed in 2016/ 17. However, the

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number of convictions actually fell

from 192 in 15/16 to 181 in 2016/

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17. The police often say why they

are failing to catch victims, they

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are unable to get access to art

accommodation or benefits and many

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will go missing before they get into

the national referral mechanism. But

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there are many challenges also

facing the police. The HMRC report

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this week said however, many victims

of modern slavery received a wholly

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inadequate service from the police.

And the report described at host of

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concerns.

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An independent inspector made a

number of really serious criticisms

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about the way in which the police

dealt with this issue, lack of focus

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on victims, tendency to refer those

without equal status to an

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immigration services, appoint our

colleague was speaking, concerns

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about the quality of investigations,

investigations being closed

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prematurely. This is what HMIC said,

the result was that we are leaving

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victims of protected while offenders

are not brought to justice. To

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conclude with a couple of further

remarks, as I think you are

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encouraging me to do, I have not

touched on the issue of children.

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Yet we have seen with respect to

children large numbers of children,

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many brought into care of the state

as a result of trafficking or

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suspected of being trafficked. What

happens to those children as we saw

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in a recent report is many abscond,

leave or are taken away. It cannot

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be acceptable that in our country in

2017, we cannot protect our children

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that are brought into the care of

the state. It cannot be right. So we

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need to understand and think what

more can be done. I think it is

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important that we look at the act,

review it, consider the section is

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still to be implemented, we consider

what more needs to be done. I will

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finish with this. In 2006, I was the

minister in the Home Office and I

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had responsibility for this area of

work. In 2017, and for four years

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between 2006 and 2017, I had much of

the responsibility for dealing with

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this, so when I challenged the

Government, it is a challenge to all

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of us, to what I did, to everyone of

us, to every local authority, every

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police force, everyone amongst us,

that we have to challenge ourselves

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to do better, it is not acceptable

that modern slavery still exists, it

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is a blight on the conscience of

this nation and whilst we have done

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a lot, there is so much more to do.

Those people who are enslaved

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deserve our help and support. Can I

just say, what an important debate

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it is? The question is, the House

has considered the implementation of

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the modern slavery act 2015. The

seven minute limit from now on.

I

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declare an interest in this debate

as a trustee of the Human

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Trafficking Foundation. I first of

all want to pay tribute to a group

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of mainly former parliamentarians

and a former judge who is still in

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the other place. Anthony Steen, MBE,

Baroness Butler-Sloss, the right

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honourable Clare Short, The right

honourable Sir John Randall, and the

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right honourable Fiona McTaggart.

Not forgetting of course the right

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honourable member current chair of

the APPG jeep on human trafficking

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and modern slavery. Without their

passion, foresight and commitment,

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we would not be in the position we

are today in the cause of defeating

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human trafficking. I also want to

thank the Salvation Army and its

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partners for the incredible work

they do at the coal face, looking

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after and supporting victims of this

terrible crime. For me, human

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trafficking is a scourge, it does

not discriminate, it permeates

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across age, race, class and gender.

It also crushes self-confidence and

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self-esteem which are the

prerequisites for aspiration,

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motivation and success. This

exploitation of vulnerable men,

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women and children by predatory

criminal groups is something that no

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civilised society should tolerate.

It creates victims who are often

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some of the most vulnerable members

of society, separated from their

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families and friends with no access

to financial help or support. As I

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speak today, I am reminded of a

young man I met around three years

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ago when I was the victim 's

Minister. He dispelled many of the

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myths surrounding human trafficking,

namely he was a man, he was British,

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and he was trafficked for forced

labour. He bravely shared with me

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his story of absolute misery. And

how he was dehumanised and degraded.

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The meeting drove home to me just

how important it is for government,

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local authorities and all of our

partners to work more effectively

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together. Thanks to the efforts of

many, including our Prime Minister,

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some good progress has been made in

tackling in combating trafficking.

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Indeed the modern slavery act 2015

has been a landmark for success. We

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now have a wide range of laws to

protect victims and a wide range of

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organisations to support victims but

there is still much more that needs

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to be done. There needs to be far

more focus on prevention by tackling

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the issue at source and working

smarter at our borders. We must

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improve prosecution and conviction

rates, improve data collection, and

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deal with ongoing scepticism and

poor response, still greeting

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victims when they try to report

abuse. This can certainly come from

0:22:390:22:45

people and organisations that ought

to know better, such as the police.

0:22:450:22:49

I know this government's ambition is

to eradicate all forms of human

0:22:490:22:53

trafficking. I know too many

millions of pounds have been spent

0:22:530:22:58

in supporting victims. But I think

our Home Secretary summed up the

0:22:580:23:04

position very well and candidly when

she wrote the following in April of

0:23:040:23:07

this year. She said, we must be

better at getting immediate support

0:23:070:23:12

to victims when they are at their

most vulnerable. Otherwise they just

0:23:120:23:18

slip through the net. To be abused

all over again. Then we lose any

0:23:180:23:25

opportunity to gain information on

the criminals who exploited them in

0:23:250:23:28

the first place. We also want to

make sure that victims are able to

0:23:280:23:35

rebuild their lives. Our aspiration

to help these people is in the right

0:23:350:23:39

place, but at present, the provision

of support may yet not be. Clearly

0:23:390:23:48

the Home Secretary recognises that

more needs to be done. And I will

0:23:480:23:52

therefore focus my suggestions today

on what can be done, on a group of

0:23:520:23:57

people who the authorities accept as

victims of human trafficking, namely

0:23:570:24:02

those who receive a positive and

conclusive grounds decision. First

0:24:020:24:07

of all, the conclusive grounds

decision must carry with it more

0:24:070:24:11

status, weight and meaning. In my

view, victims of trafficking victim

0:24:110:24:16

to the same vulnerable group as

refugees and victims of torture. It

0:24:160:24:21

therefore seems right that

conclusive grounds should carry with

0:24:210:24:25

them the same 12 months residency

permit, not only would this provide

0:24:250:24:30

the stability and assurances that

victims need to begin to recover,

0:24:300:24:35

but it would also create a better

environment for victims to assist

0:24:350:24:40

law enforcement agencies in finding

and prosecuting perpetrators.

0:24:400:24:45

Second, the paperwork received by

victims with positive conclusive

0:24:450:24:50

grounds must be recognisable and

transferable, the current form, to

0:24:500:24:54

be frank, is flimsy, short and

unhelpful. This should be recognised

0:24:540:24:59

by other government departments and

agencies and allow access to

0:24:590:25:02

appropriate services. Third, victims

need advice from those who

0:25:020:25:07

understand the system in relation to

accommodation, immigration and

0:25:070:25:13

employment support. The system which

personally, as a lawyer, some 23

0:25:130:25:18

years, now an MP, I often struggle

to deal with. Victims with

0:25:180:25:22

conclusive grounds should have

access to a case worker to help them

0:25:220:25:25

comply with the procedures and

access services. Fourth, victims

0:25:250:25:30

need a roof over their heads. I ask

the Minister to consider introducing

0:25:300:25:35

some greater flexibility in the

moving on the victim from a safe

0:25:350:25:39

house. The safe house of course

should not be permanent long-term

0:25:390:25:45

accommodation but the current cliff

edge approach of losing the safe

0:25:450:25:48

house accommodation two weeks after

the conclusive grounds decision is

0:25:480:25:52

failing and not satisfactory. Mr

Deputy Speaker, Madam Deputy

0:25:520:25:59

Speaker, forgive me, human

trafficking is a scourge, it is

0:25:590:26:03

abhorrent and inexcusable and every

time I hear about an incident or

0:26:030:26:07

meet a victim, I think, what kind of

world are we living in and what can

0:26:070:26:11

we do to make things better? Every

victim and witness of a crime needs

0:26:110:26:16

to know they will be offered all

their help support they need and

0:26:160:26:21

deserve to move on in their lives

and bring perpetrators to justice.

0:26:210:26:25

We can do better. We must do better.

Thank you.

The anti-slavery

0:26:250:26:33

commissioner stressed this week

using children to transport and sell

0:26:330:26:37

Class A drugs is a form of

modern-day slavery. He said the

0:26:370:26:44

police and other agencies were not

seeing it for what it is, the use of

0:26:440:26:49

children and young people as

commodities by criminal gangs. He

0:26:490:26:51

said that more and more lines were

being discovered each day but there

0:26:510:26:57

was often a lack of sympathy for the

victims. He was responding to the

0:26:570:27:02

HMIC report. The criminal

exploitation of children to sell

0:27:020:27:09

drugs is the next big grooming

scandal, it has many similarities to

0:27:090:27:14

grooming in the child sexual

exploitation cases in places like

0:27:140:27:22

Rochdale. The National Crime Agency

say 82% of police forces have

0:27:220:27:26

reported activity in their area. I

have been told by a well-informed

0:27:260:27:31

police source there could be up to

1000 county lines operating

0:27:310:27:34

throughout the country from major

cities where there are

0:27:340:27:39

well-established criminal gangs

including London, Liverpool and

0:27:390:27:41

Manchester. And although the

exploitation of children by

0:27:410:27:44

organised crime to carry and sell

drugs is not new, there is a huge

0:27:440:27:48

and growing problem of children

being groomed to supply Class A

0:27:480:27:52

drugs, crack cocaine and heroin,

around the country. This usually

0:27:520:27:56

involves going from an urban area

expanding their operations by

0:27:560:28:01

crossing one or more police force

boundaries to rural areas, setting

0:28:010:28:05

up a secure base and using one is to

conduct day-to-day dealing. A county

0:28:050:28:10

lines enterprise must always

involves the exploitation of

0:28:100:28:15

vulnerable children and adults. As

more are set up, more children are

0:28:150:28:21

being targeted and groomed to carry

on supply drugs. For the criminal

0:28:210:28:25

gangs, it is a very successful

business. New markets bring more

0:28:250:28:29

income and using children and young

people reduces the gang's risk of

0:28:290:28:33

detection. For the children and

young people, it often ends in drug

0:28:330:28:37

and alcohol addiction, violence, is

other sexual explication. They

0:28:370:28:43

become criminals and the groomers

and exploiters of other children.

0:28:430:28:46

The extent of it is very difficult

to map as data is collected by

0:28:460:28:50

various agencies and there was

little sharing of that data. This

0:28:500:28:55

week I was invited by Greater

Manchester Police to help launch an

0:28:550:28:59

excellent new campaign called

Tractor will raise awareness of how

0:28:590:29:02

young people can get drawn into

county lines. -- trapped. The police

0:29:020:29:12

found a young boy in Blackpool

Avenue this week who they said was

0:29:120:29:17

relieved to be locked up, his face

was green, as he had been so badly

0:29:170:29:21

beaten -- in Blackpool only this

week. Key to the approach is working

0:29:210:29:33

in schools, youth centres, housing

and drug services, to prevent young

0:29:330:29:37

people getting embedded or

furthering indebted into criminal

0:29:370:29:40

gangs, to provide them with safe

people to talk to. Some children are

0:29:400:29:48

vulnerable because of chaotic family

relationships, some are looked after

0:29:480:29:52

children, some may have older

siblings caught up in drugs, others

0:29:520:29:56

might have parents who are complicit

in the use of their child by

0:29:560:30:00

gangster helped feed their own drug

habit. Methods include offers of

0:30:000:30:06

cash and goods, coercion, young

people having to work back to pay

0:30:060:30:09

back a drug debt owed to a gang

member. I chair the all-party

0:30:090:30:14

Parliamentary group on runaway and

missing children. And adults. Which

0:30:140:30:18

is supported by the Children's

Society and missing people. We held

0:30:180:30:22

a Round Table in March on county

lines taking evidence from victims,

0:30:220:30:28

parents, experts and agencies. Can I

thank the honourable member for her

0:30:280:30:32

attendance at the round table? The

report we produced after the Round

0:30:320:30:36

Table made clear that children from

all backgrounds are at risk of being

0:30:360:30:41

drawn into county lines, the parents

who gave evidence to the Round Table

0:30:410:30:44

did not meet the profile of a

chaotic family, their sons had

0:30:440:30:49

become involved through friendships

with other young people who had

0:30:490:30:52

associations with gangs. Pressure on

young people is huge and at a time

0:30:520:30:56

of transition from childhood to

adolescents, they are particularly

0:30:560:31:00

vulnerable to the pressure from

peers. Young people can get drawn

0:31:000:31:03

into what initially looks like a

good offer in terms of cash and

0:31:030:31:07

lifestyle but end up being trapped

and coerced by very terrifying

0:31:070:31:11

people. Looked after children are

particular target for grooming by

0:31:110:31:17

criminal gangs, those placed miles

away from home areas

0:31:170:31:30

can be especially vulnerable, there

are additional difficulties in

0:31:330:31:35

keeping children safe when they are

placed far away. It is hard for a

0:31:350:31:37

social worker to give support from

hundreds of miles away. It is

0:31:370:31:40

concerning there has been a 78%

increase nationally in children

0:31:400:31:42

placed in children's poems out of

borough from March, 2012. Parents

0:31:420:31:44

whose children were exploited its

breast despair at the Round Table --

0:31:440:31:50

expressed despair. My concern is the

response of the safeguarding system

0:31:500:31:54

is increasing the vulnerability of

young people. The parent who is not

0:31:540:31:58

supported will leave the child more

vulnerable. The placing of a child

0:31:580:32:03

in a children's home targeted by

criminal gangs increases their

0:32:030:32:08

vulnerability. Failing to

appropriately assess risk in missing

0:32:080:32:13

is percent will increase

vulnerability.

0:32:130:32:18

There needs to be a more joined up

response from the National Crime

0:32:180:32:23

Agency and police at a local level.

These crimes an aching millions from

0:32:230:32:29

the degradation of children,

responsible for endless beatings,

0:32:290:32:32

stabbing and murder. We also need to

disrupt the grooming of vulnerable

0:32:320:32:36

children at an early age, at the

same time as prosecuting gang

0:32:360:32:41

members. Preventing children getting

into gangs in turn prevents more

0:32:410:32:45

victims. We need to look at the

better use of child abduction

0:32:450:32:48

warning notices and the child

referral mechanism needs to be

0:32:480:32:52

better understood as it could be

used to identify children as victims

0:32:520:32:56

of exploit Asian and this in turn

makes it easier to prosecute their

0:32:560:33:03

exploiters under trafficking laws.

They are the ones hiding behind the

0:33:030:33:08

children and they also prevent

prosecution. The exploitation of

0:33:080:33:14

criminal gangs is increasing and it

is shocking the message that

0:33:140:33:19

organised crime is getting is

provided they use children and young

0:33:190:33:22

people, we are powerless to do

anything about it, so we need to

0:33:220:33:25

find better ways of working

together, and using better resources

0:33:250:33:31

and a better response to

safeguarding children. Children

0:33:310:33:34

should be our priority.

Last week the Church of England

0:33:340:33:41

introduced an initiative which is

aimed at tackling modern day

0:33:410:33:44

slavery. It draws on excellent work

pioneered by the Bishop of Derby. It

0:33:440:33:51

is used to detect incidences of

modern day slavery in their midst

0:33:510:33:56

and provide appropriate support for

victims. There are many tools to

0:33:560:33:59

help end slavery within the local

community, and the church which is

0:33:590:34:04

present in all communities has an

inherent responsibility to leave

0:34:040:34:07

these efforts. The Archbishop of

Canterbury said William Wilberforce

0:34:070:34:12

convinced his generation that

slavery was a sin. That is much

0:34:120:34:16

range but there is ignorance around

it. The charity takes its name from

0:34:160:34:23

a group of sisters who were founded

to help marginalised women but the

0:34:230:34:28

legacy today will be to address

modern day slavery. The campaign

0:34:280:34:33

slogan is: we see you.

The aim is to empower people like us

0:34:330:34:38

to spot the signs of modern forms of

slavery happening all around us in

0:34:380:34:41

our towns, cities and villages. They

could be right in the midst of

0:34:410:34:47

communities where we live. We do not

always know the signs and we do not

0:34:470:34:51

know what are the right questions to

ask. Modern slavery is a hidden

0:34:510:34:56

crime so we have to take seriously

the injunction to know who our

0:34:560:35:00

neighbour really is. Our neighbour

could be a homeless man forced into

0:35:000:35:03

work. It could be a girl kept into

domestic servitude. Victims may be

0:35:030:35:08

nearly invisible to us so we have to

develop sharper eyes in order to

0:35:080:35:22

detect their needs, hence, we see

you, the campaign. The initiative is

0:35:240:35:26

designed to help dieses help develop

strategies to protect their

0:35:260:35:28

communities by offering monitoring.

Crucially, it gives people contacts

0:35:280:35:30

to reach out to if they spot signs

of slavery and I worried that people

0:35:300:35:33

are trapped in it. Nationally, it

developed a network of practitioners

0:35:330:35:40

who can provide evidence -based data

to resource the church's national

0:35:400:35:45

engagement with statutory and

non-statutory bodies. The project

0:35:450:35:49

has taken best practice from Derby

and now there are ten other

0:35:490:35:53

participating dioceses, Bath and

Wells, Chester, Durham, Liverpool,

0:35:530:35:58

Portsmouth, Southwark and

Nottingham. A further 14 dioceses

0:35:580:36:05

are due to sign up later this year

and it is hoped the church's 42

0:36:050:36:10

dieses and 12,000 parishes will all

become mobilised in the battle to

0:36:100:36:15

eradicate modern day slavery. Of

course, the landscape image is so

0:36:150:36:19

different so the approach and

training will need to be

0:36:190:36:22

contextualised, but there is no

doubt this approach can make a

0:36:220:36:27

difference. If we take in the

vanguard the Bishop of Derby and his

0:36:270:36:30

diocese which was right in the

forefront of this, and Bishop

0:36:300:36:33

Alistair was on the modern day

slavery Bill committee, along with

0:36:330:36:38

other members present, we can see

the key to this is developing a

0:36:380:36:43

strong working relationship with key

agencies, the police, the council

0:36:430:36:47

and other agencies who can reach out

and provide assistance to victims.

0:36:470:36:52

Within the church, the mothers union

has taken on a need for supplies for

0:36:520:36:57

victims, by fund-raising and

producing emergency packs for them.

0:36:570:37:01

There are many examples from this

initiative of each diocese taking

0:37:010:37:04

the opportunity to help and I

encourage every member present to

0:37:040:37:13

read the account. This is not to

diminish the good work carried

0:37:130:37:20

across the country by secular NGOs

and our community and I would like

0:37:200:37:25

to highlight the work of Soroptimist

International of Great Britain and

0:37:250:37:30

Ireland. It has undertaken surveys

online and face-to-face to

0:37:300:37:37

understand how much the public

actually knows and what their

0:37:370:37:40

perceptions are of slavery and human

trafficking. This survey is to help

0:37:400:37:45

the UK modern slavery training

delivery group to assess the level

0:37:450:37:51

of public knowledge, in order to

help combat it. As of last week, we

0:37:510:37:55

know over 3700 online surveys had

been completed and over 400 paper

0:37:550:38:04

surveys have been returned. When we

made a bid before the Backbench

0:38:040:38:08

Business Committee last week, one of

the issues I wanted to join in

0:38:080:38:14

raising was the issue of child

trafficking. I was shocked to read a

0:38:140:38:20

report in The Times which Baroness

Butler-Sloss said was very

0:38:200:38:23

disturbing, about scores of miners

who fall back into the hands of

0:38:230:38:29

traffickers. Nine the vicar -- many

children go missing every year. In

0:38:290:38:44

that report in the Times, Kevin

Hyland, the anti-slavery

0:38:440:38:50

commissioner has expressed his

concern that the frequency and speed

0:38:500:38:54

of which the mini is miners go

missing. -- Vietnamese miners. I do

0:38:540:39:04

particularly want to join with the

honourable member for Gedling and

0:39:040:39:08

others who have spoken to really

impress upon the Government to go

0:39:080:39:11

out of its way to tackle this

terrible abuse of the most

0:39:110:39:18

vulnerable of the vulnerable in our

society. I beg to move.

0:39:180:39:25

Kerry McCarthy.

Madam Deputy

Speaker, it is a pleasure to see you

0:39:250:39:28

in the chair. I welcome the Modern

Slavery Act and imparticular section

0:39:280:39:33

54 on supply chains which was

something we had to fight quite hard

0:39:330:39:37

for. Despite the legislation as the

National Crime Agency said earlier

0:39:370:39:43

this year, modern slavery is

steadily increasing. There are many

0:39:430:39:47

industries in which modern slavery

goes undetected, everyday situations

0:39:470:39:51

right and our nose. 20 cases of

modern slavery have been

0:39:510:39:55

investigated in Bristol over the

last, including Eastern European

0:39:550:39:59

workers who were exploited by a

Bristol car wash and forced to work

0:39:590:40:03

long hours for low pay. One had

worked 18 months for no pay at all

0:40:030:40:07

and it is believed five others are

in the same situation. In July this

0:40:070:40:11

year, police arrested people

following a raid on a nail bar in

0:40:110:40:18

Southmead in Bristol, my honourable

friend's constituency. Unseen, a

0:40:180:40:24

Bristol-based charity who works to

eradicate modern day slavery and

0:40:240:40:28

runs the modern day slavery helpline

is currently running a net nail it

0:40:280:40:33

campaign which aims to stop slavery

in nail bars. I am happy to support

0:40:330:40:39

that campaign, hence my bright pink

nails today. And I think Avon and

0:40:390:40:44

Somerset police who support it and

ended up on the front page of the

0:40:440:40:49

Sun newspaper and were denounced by

the honourable member for Monmouth,

0:40:490:40:52

I believe they were right to do that

as well. Over the past 12 months in

0:40:520:40:57

the wider Avon and Somerset area,

police adults with 60 investigations

0:40:570:41:02

and have seen a significant increase

in modern slavery related

0:41:020:41:06

intelligence and also calls to the

helpline went up following that

0:41:060:41:09

awareness campaign. But the police

do need to be properly resourced and

0:41:090:41:14

as my local police in China Leave --

Police and Crime Commissioner said

0:41:140:41:20

they do not have the resources to

carry out basic policing functions

0:41:200:41:24

let alone mount investigations. Both

the gang masters licensing authority

0:41:240:41:30

and HMIC have received cuts to deal

with their capacity in slavery

0:41:300:41:34

offences. A firm could inspect a

visit only once every 250 years.

0:41:340:41:44

Many of the call about nail bars

fight the physical or psychological

0:41:440:41:50

state of workers, inappropriate

sleeping accommodation, poor working

0:41:500:41:54

conditions, lack of spoken English,

cheap prices, cash only transactions

0:41:540:42:00

and concerns of abuse and violence.

They need to -- they seem to be

0:42:000:42:05

intimidated by their bosses.

Customers need to be aware of these

0:42:050:42:09

issues. The Southmead raid was

prompted by a tip-off from a member

0:42:090:42:14

of the public who raised concerns

about a woman's welfare. Without

0:42:140:42:20

that into ventilation --

intervention it could have taken

0:42:200:42:22

longer to take the woman to a place

of safety. People do need to know

0:42:220:42:27

the signs of modern slavery in their

community. Victims may appear

0:42:270:42:32

withdrawn. They may have few

possessions. They may have few

0:42:320:42:37

clothes, all live and work at the

same address, may be dropped off and

0:42:370:42:40

collected for work on a regular

basis, either very early or very

0:42:400:42:45

late at night. People do need to be

vigilant, as I have said. Finally, I

0:42:450:42:50

want to say a bit about slavery in

the food processing, fishing and

0:42:500:42:57

agricultural sectors which remain a

huge issue. Unite the union's

0:42:570:43:01

excellent from plough to plate

report, said employers are some of

0:43:010:43:04

the worst exploiters of workers,

with countless instances of abuse,

0:43:040:43:10

meeting the legal definitions of

slavery and enforced labour. Lusty

0:43:100:43:15

group of Lithuanian chicken farmers

won their case against two Kent

0:43:150:43:19

-based gang masters who had forced

them to work under threat of

0:43:190:43:23

violence and kept them in squalid

living conditions. In another 2016

0:43:230:43:29

case, two Lithuanian men had been

trafficked and worked in a meat

0:43:290:43:34

processing plant. They had their pay

withheld and were subjected to

0:43:340:43:38

violence but the traffickers were

only sentenced to 3.5 years in jail.

0:43:380:43:43

The environment of Justice

foundation has done as Bob will work

0:43:430:43:46

over the last five years, exposing

modern slavery in the Thailand

0:43:460:43:52

seafood sector, under covering,

there have been casing people kept

0:43:520:43:59

at the four years, being moved from

ship to ship and never reaching

0:43:590:44:05

shore to reach sanctuary. Despite

reforms, forced labour continues to

0:44:050:44:13

be widespread, including the

shocking statistic that 59% of Thai

0:44:130:44:17

fishing workers had witnessed the

murder of a fellow worker. Many more

0:44:170:44:22

had had wages and sleep been

withheld from them. Millions of

0:44:220:44:32

pounds worth of seafood products

imported from Thailand every year.

0:44:320:44:37

Another example from just this week,

is two of Italy's biggest tomato

0:44:370:44:44

suppliers for UK supermarkets have

been indicated in labour abuses with

0:44:440:44:51

workers being required to work 12

hours a day, seven days a week with

0:44:510:44:55

minimal pay and no access to medical

care. Those are a few examples of

0:44:550:45:00

something which is incredibly

widespread. In 2015 the Economist

0:45:000:45:10

described the transparency of

slavery requirement of a light

0:45:100:45:12

touch. I would say the Government

needs to go further. A full

0:45:120:45:21

complement -- statement should be

legally binding. Specifically in

0:45:210:45:30

relation to the seafood sector and

the fishing industry, the

0:45:300:45:36

environmental Justice foundation is

calling for transnational approaches

0:45:360:45:40

for all countries to fully ratify

and implement the convection an work

0:45:400:45:46

and fishing, for all countries to

amend legislation to prosecute

0:45:460:45:51

national citizens engaged in human

trafficking, on vessels registered

0:45:510:45:54

to another country, and for

retailers and to establish

0:45:540:46:02

effectively -- effective

transparency, including committing

0:46:020:46:05

to independent third-party

unannounced auditing of supply

0:46:050:46:07

chains. Madam Deputy Speaker, cheap

products and services often come at

0:46:070:46:11

an unseen cost and we must ask

ourselves, just how come prices are

0:46:110:46:16

so low. If it seems too good to be

true, it probably is. Such services

0:46:160:46:22

should never be used. We all need to

play a role in suffocating slavery

0:46:220:46:27

at source by exercising vigilance.

0:46:270:46:33

It is a pleasure to follow the

honourable member, she made some

0:46:330:46:36

excellent points. I want to pay

tribute to my right honourable

0:46:360:46:41

friend, the Prime Minister, for her

dedication when Home Secretary to

0:46:410:46:45

start to read our nation of this

evil practice of modern slavery and

0:46:450:46:49

leading the way globally -- read our

nation. The Modern Slavery Act 2015

0:46:490:46:57

is a world leading legislation and

it is of paramount importance that

0:46:570:47:03

other countries follow our lead. The

member has already expressed the

0:47:030:47:09

important role the Bishop of Derby

played in driving the legislation to

0:47:090:47:14

where we are today. With my

constituency being on the doorstep

0:47:140:47:20

of Derby, listening to the bishops

speak on the subject really inspired

0:47:200:47:24

me to take more than just a passing

interest in this, it is probably

0:47:240:47:28

because of the Bishop I am here

today. The Bishop has been at the

0:47:280:47:33

forefront of the fight against

modern slavery with the

0:47:330:47:36

establishment of the Derby and

publisher modern slavery

0:47:360:47:39

partnership, -- the Derby and

Derbyshire modern slavery

0:47:390:47:46

partnership. This collaboration of

organisations across different

0:47:460:47:51

sectors is drawn from Derby city and

Derby County. Derbyshire as a whole.

0:47:510:47:56

This aims to raise awareness in the

understanding of what trafficking

0:47:560:48:01

is, how traffickers operate and an

understanding of the experiences of

0:48:010:48:05

victims. It is seen as a model of

best practice across the country. In

0:48:050:48:11

no way -- nowhere is immune from the

threat of modern slavery, it does

0:48:110:48:15

not just happen in big cities. It is

as likely to happen in the local car

0:48:150:48:19

wash, nail bar, in our towns, as

well as in the major cities we

0:48:190:48:26

automatically think of. To give this

important issue some context,

0:48:260:48:31

research carried out by the Home

Office in 2014 estimated that in

0:48:310:48:37

2013 the number of potential victims

of modern slavery in the UK was

0:48:370:48:42

between 10,000 up to 13,000.

Personally, I believe this is an

0:48:420:48:47

underestimate of the problem as more

and more people become aware of this

0:48:470:48:50

horrendous practice. Moore does need

to be done to educate employers and

0:48:500:48:56

the staff as to how to identify

people who may be modern slaves. A

0:48:560:49:01

recent case in Derbyshire

highlighted this. I know more

0:49:010:49:06

workers being done to educate both

employers and employees of what to

0:49:060:49:10

look for, how identify these people.

However, this number not only

0:49:100:49:17

represents victims trafficked into

the UK but also British adults and

0:49:170:49:22

children too. The National Crime

Agency estimates that in 2013 the UK

0:49:220:49:26

was the third most common country of

origin of identified victims. It is

0:49:260:49:30

happening on our doorsteps. But in

today's debate, I want to focus on

0:49:300:49:36

the supply chain aspect of the

legislation, the transparency in the

0:49:360:49:40

supply chains cause. This aspect of

the legislation applies to

0:49:400:49:48

commercial organisations which

operate in the UK and have an annual

0:49:480:49:50

turnover of £36 million. Such

businesses have to produce a slavery

0:49:500:49:57

and human trafficking statement each

year. The statement which is placed

0:49:570:50:00

on the company's website should set

out the steps taken to address and

0:50:000:50:07

prevent modern slavery in their

operations and supply chains. As my

0:50:070:50:10

interest in the subject has

developed, I have read numerous

0:50:100:50:14

statements from some of the largest

retailers and other businesses and I

0:50:140:50:19

am saddened when I read the

statements and see that they are

0:50:190:50:27

only paying lip service to the

legislation and do not appreciate

0:50:270:50:30

the importance of getting the supply

chain slavery free. In the last

0:50:300:50:35

Parliament, I tried to bring a

Private Members' Bill to displace to

0:50:350:50:39

strengthen the current legislation.

The bill was first introduced in the

0:50:390:50:43

House of Lords in May, 2016, by a

crossbench peer

peer, aimed to amend

0:50:430:50:53

the Modern Slavery Act 2015 to

require organisations and public

0:50:530:50:57

bodies to include a statement on

slavery and human trafficking in

0:50:570:51:01

their annual report, not just on the

website.

We did come across one

0:51:010:51:07

problem as the annual report and

accounts are legal entities, the

0:51:070:51:12

inclusion of the slavery statement

would have caused legal headaches,

0:51:120:51:15

but perhaps we need to address that

again. At the time of the

0:51:150:51:19

introduction of the Private Members'

Bill, the Government recognise the

0:51:190:51:23

2015 legislation was only the first

step towards a solution to the

0:51:230:51:26

problem. Currently, the legislation

only applies to the private sector,

0:51:260:51:32

not the public sector. To include

the public sector is still of

0:51:320:51:36

paramount importance. The other part

of the bill that we are looking to

0:51:360:51:40

introduce was to extend the

requirements of the private sector

0:51:400:51:44

to the public sector too. I find it

quite disturbing that the public

0:51:440:51:50

sector which procures vast amount of

goods and services is not included

0:51:500:51:55

in the legislation and I feel this

is a major flaw which currently

0:51:550:51:59

needs to be corrected. I was pleased

the Home Office at the time did have

0:51:590:52:03

meetings with the minister in her

place today so we have continuity

0:52:030:52:07

which is fantastic, a Home Office

agreed with the sentiment and the

0:52:070:52:12

aspirations of the bill and they

were developing policies in line

0:52:120:52:15

with what was laid out in the bill,

so I am looking forward to having

0:52:150:52:19

some updates from the minister when

she responds at the end of the

0:52:190:52:22

debate as to the progress through

the Private Members' Bill. Madam

0:52:220:52:29

Deputy Speaker, I am very proud we

lead the fight against modern

0:52:290:52:35

slavery in this country and this

battle continues to be a priority

0:52:350:52:38

for our government. Thank you.

Thank

you. I rise to speak in this debate

0:52:380:52:47

and I thank those that brought it to

the Backbench Business Committee, I

0:52:470:52:53

am both of those people! I was on

both sides. I just realised as I was

0:52:530:52:59

saying it I was thanking myself

twice! I came to this House, prior

0:52:590:53:07

to being here, I ran one of the

services that operate safe houses

0:53:070:53:12

and community-based support for

victims of modern slavery, we

0:53:120:53:17

largely focused our safe houses on

women and children. I think that

0:53:170:53:20

what I found whilst working there, I

want to tell a few of the stories of

0:53:200:53:27

the people I met. But the vast

majority of women now living in the

0:53:270:53:34

safe accommodation through the

national referral mechanism were

0:53:340:53:37

there because they had been

trafficked into this country for

0:53:370:53:39

sexual slavery. It is not sex work,

these people were slaves. I worked

0:53:390:53:49

with women who were forced to have

sex with over 50 men in a day, who

0:53:490:53:57

fed scraps from the table of the

honest Johns, my honourable friend

0:53:570:54:06

from Bristol has talked about our

need for vigilance. The idea that in

0:54:060:54:09

a modern system of sex work that we

have the idea of the honest John

0:54:090:54:16

saying, do you mind if I ask you

where you have come from? Are you

0:54:160:54:20

hear out of choice? It is a total

fallacy. It is something that

0:54:200:54:25

successive governments have failed

to tackle and that we really need to

0:54:250:54:29

be tackling now because the amount

of women prostituted from different

0:54:290:54:36

countries and exploited and traffic

around the country who are from the

0:54:360:54:40

UK originally is absolutely

phenomenal. There are hundreds and

0:54:400:54:47

hundreds and hundreds of women who

have gone through just the service

0:54:470:54:50

are used to work for and if we do

not tackle this head on, then we are

0:54:500:54:55

letting down the victims of slavery.

Some people may be want to call it

0:54:550:55:00

something more civilised like sex

work. I want to also talk about some

0:55:000:55:04

of the problems I found while

working in that service and I worked

0:55:040:55:09

very closely with the Home Office

and before that, the Ministry of

0:55:090:55:13

Justice, because they were

originally the department that held

0:55:130:55:15

it. Everybody wanted success. There

are still some major and glaring

0:55:150:55:23

holes in how we treat the victim and

how the victim goes on the journey.

0:55:230:55:27

One of the things I wonder if the

Minister could feedback on is the

0:55:270:55:31

difference between those who are

housed in safe houses and those

0:55:310:55:37

housed in generic accommodation

through the asylum system in this

0:55:370:55:39

country. Because the difference,

there is a two tier system for

0:55:390:55:44

slaves in this country, essentially,

were those that live in safe houses

0:55:440:55:47

are getting amazing... I would say

that! I ran up the curtains, made

0:55:470:55:55

them lovely, brilliant. There is a

two tier system, I remember in one

0:55:550:55:59

instance a woman, she did not

qualify to get into the safe us

0:55:590:56:03

because of immigration status, I

went to visit her in one of the

0:56:030:56:07

asylum accommodations, this woman

was pregnant, she was nearly nine

0:56:070:56:12

months pregnant, she looked

considerably thinner than even I was

0:56:120:56:16

at the time and she was sleeping on

the floor and was being given one

0:56:160:56:23

meal a day. I was there to offer her

some community support and give her

0:56:230:56:27

some money and she wanted to move

accommodation from where she was and

0:56:270:56:31

she was going to be moved that data

Nottingham through the system and I

0:56:310:56:36

said, normally I would kick off

about this because you are in the

0:56:360:56:40

very final stages of your pregnancy,

you need to stay with the continuity

0:56:400:56:44

of care, and she cried and begged me

to not stop her being moved. As a

0:56:440:56:50

practitioner who has a duty of care

to a pregnant woman, I left myself

0:56:500:56:59

in a terrible dilemma and that is

something that has to be tackled.

0:56:590:57:01

The other thing which has been

raised by my right and Bob Friend,

0:57:010:57:06

the chair of the all-party

Parliamentary group, the issue

0:57:060:57:10

around what happens after the 45 day

reflection period -- my right

0:57:100:57:14

honourable friend. I cannot remember

anyone coming in and are only being

0:57:140:57:18

45 days is the honest truth. The way

the system works as you apply to

0:57:180:57:23

have more days and you always get

it, to be fair. The system is not

0:57:230:57:28

mean in that sense, but nobody ever

only needs 45 days. Talking about

0:57:280:57:34

deeply traumatised people, people

trying to take their organs,

0:57:340:57:37

enslaving them, having sex with them

50 times a day, 45 days is never

0:57:370:57:42

going to be enough. But what happens

to those people afterwards is a

0:57:420:57:48

massive, massive concern. They are

lost from services and services like

0:57:480:57:52

mine which was black countrywomen's

paid, we would try and do everything

0:57:520:57:56

we could to keep in touch on an

informal basis with people. However,

0:57:560:58:04

organisations like black country

women's aid do not have the

0:58:040:58:09

resources, they are doing amazing

and innovative things, I saw them

0:58:090:58:12

last week talking about trying to

understand the links between

0:58:120:58:16

substance misuse and human

trafficking, really innovative

0:58:160:58:20

stuff, but they have 178 people in

service today on one day, they do

0:58:200:58:25

not have the resources as the

voluntary sector to be the system

0:58:250:58:30

that follows those people

afterwards. It is an organisation

0:58:300:58:33

dealing with 8000 people per year

across different services. The

0:58:330:58:38

system needs to... There needs to be

a system put in place by the

0:58:380:58:42

Government to ensure the drop-off

does not happen. For those who are

0:58:420:58:46

Patrick Head, and I think many

people would be surprised,

0:58:460:58:49

especially those of us who deal with

immigration cases, the number who

0:58:490:58:55

want to be repacked rated. That is

maybe one issue about not being up

0:58:550:58:59

to find those people and hoping they

are all right, but those who are

0:58:590:59:02

still in the UK, and how they are

being trafficked around, it has got

0:59:020:59:06

to be tackled. And the long-term

recovery. The issue of the criminal

0:59:060:59:14

compensation must be bottomed out. A

man who lived in slavery for 13

0:59:140:59:19

years, his aggressors were sent to

prison for two and a half years.

0:59:190:59:23

Currently not being able to access

compensation, that is a disgrace. He

0:59:230:59:29

also has no National Insurance

contributions. We have to look after

0:59:290:59:33

these people afterwards and make the

system that works for all of them.

0:59:330:59:38

Thank you very much. It is a

pleasure to follow the honourable

0:59:380:59:43

lady in this passionate debate. Some

of those very difficult personal

0:59:430:59:53

experiences really do hit home. I

would like to thank the right

0:59:530:59:57

honourable member for security in

this important debate and his

0:59:571:00:02

passionate opening, tackling modern

slavery is so important. I thank him

1:00:021:00:06

for his work he has done. And all

members on all sides of this House

1:00:061:00:12

and the organisations and

individuals who do so much. I know

1:00:121:00:17

the Minister shares very strong

concerns about exploitation, the

1:00:171:00:22

safety of women and girls, and to

make sure victims are identified and

1:00:221:00:26

looked after and working with

partners such as the NHS. As we have

1:00:261:00:32

heard, our Prime Minister in her

previous role and indeed in her

1:00:321:00:36

current role was absolutely leading

the example of how internationally

1:00:361:00:40

we will need to step up and stamp

out slavery in all forms. As the

1:00:401:00:45

chair of the all-party women in

Parliament group it is really

1:00:451:00:48

important we use the fact we have

women in Parliament, all sides and

1:00:481:00:54

benches, with more women than ever,

able to stand up and make these

1:00:541:00:58

positions heard. We have heard that

from all sides of the House. We

1:00:581:01:03

really need to take... Of course.

Thank you. A few months ago, we had

1:01:031:01:09

police raids in North Wales. There

were people who were being kept

1:01:091:01:15

effectively as slaves. The actual

response of a lot of people was, we

1:01:151:01:19

never realised this sort of thing

went on here. There is this idea

1:01:191:01:22

that it is only in perhaps London or

big cities, it is through the

1:01:221:01:27

country.

1:01:271:01:32

I absolutely agree with the

honourable gentleman. In fact, I

1:01:321:01:35

found that in my own constituency. I

did not think it affected Hampshire,

1:01:351:01:41

and it does. I agree we need to be

vigilant in this. We need to focus

1:01:411:01:46

on the drug trafficking, the

criminal exploitation we have heard

1:01:461:01:50

about in the agricultural sector,

the sexual exploitation of

1:01:501:01:55

vulnerable people and in my

particular area I found it was

1:01:551:01:58

people with learning difficulties as

well who were being exploited. As we

1:01:581:02:02

have heard, the 2015 slavery act has

been a very welcome and we heard

1:02:021:02:11

from my right honourable friend the

member for Maidstone and the wheeled

1:02:111:02:15

about some excellent points that she

raised about moving on this

1:02:151:02:20

ground-breaking act and I think they

were very hard to disagree with. I

1:02:201:02:25

think the act made a strong signal

for criminals about the vile trade

1:02:251:02:30

which is going on, but I think like

any act, there is a chance to move

1:02:301:02:36

this forward. Not only is it making

a difference locally, it is at home

1:02:361:02:41

and abroad. I will move on to this

other area as well about what we are

1:02:411:02:47

doing abroad and this is really

important about the work we are

1:02:471:02:52

doing through our visit finances, it

is 0.7% of GDP -- DFI D. We are

1:02:521:03:01

putting lots and lots of money into

this work around the world and

1:03:011:03:07

indeed locally, but I think we need

to focus, as we have heard from

1:03:071:03:13

around the Chamber on outcomes. It

is important that those affected by

1:03:131:03:18

modern slavery, so it is about 150

million we are spending tackling it

1:03:181:03:22

alone, with the 20 million global

investment fund, that we actually

1:03:221:03:26

look at the outcomes instead of just

talking about change. We have of

1:03:261:03:31

course seen the Prime Minister

working with the UN on this. We know

1:03:311:03:37

there were events locally in the

Speaker 's house on this as well. We

1:03:371:03:39

all know what we need to be done. In

Eastleigh, churches have come to me

1:03:391:03:48

raising their concerns. I certainly

think that they are very clued in

1:03:481:03:53

both locally and internationally,

about the concerns. One particular

1:03:531:03:59

consistency and Jacques Rogge

constituency survey was meeting a

1:03:591:04:08

mother and her teenage girl and

explaining what she thought was a

1:04:081:04:15

positive relationship was in fact

based on exploitation. I think

1:04:151:04:21

sometimes we think about large

exploitative gangs but sometimes it

1:04:211:04:23

can be down to one or two people

with a handful of young girls who

1:04:231:04:27

are learning this as a positive

relationship and frankly, it is not.

1:04:271:04:33

Another area of concern I have found

in my constituency is grown-up

1:04:331:04:38

children at exploiting their parents

or grandparents for drug money. In

1:04:381:04:43

effect, making them continue to go

to work to fund their choices, to

1:04:431:04:48

support those who are maybe addicted

to drugs, who are basically lodging

1:04:481:04:54

of the family. They are exploiting

their own family, making them carry

1:04:541:04:57

on going to work when they don't

need to, to fund a lifestyle choice.

1:04:571:05:02

When we do look at this act we

perhaps need to look more broadly.

1:05:021:05:07

But colleagues across this House, I

think there is more that can be done

1:05:071:05:11

and it has to be recognised that the

Government has taken some giant

1:05:111:05:15

leaps forward, particularly on the

human aspect and the pain and

1:05:151:05:19

suffering that we see, but business

absolutely has a role to play and

1:05:191:05:24

communities, seeking this out and

not letting people hide from it. In

1:05:241:05:29

ensuring transparency, we heard it

today, on businesses and supply

1:05:291:05:34

chains, the fashion industry in

particular. If we look at the

1:05:341:05:38

garments we are wearing, how would

we know where they were made and how

1:05:381:05:41

have they come to be and would we be

confident about that? I recently

1:05:411:05:45

went out with Hampshire Constabulary

Marine unit, as one of their

1:05:451:05:52

operations. My constituency in

Eastleigh is on the Hamble River. We

1:05:521:05:56

go on to Southampton water and

across the Solent. I would like to

1:05:561:06:00

say thank you so much to all the

police who are involved in the

1:06:001:06:04

operations they do. Absolutely, out

on those waters, making sure those

1:06:041:06:10

operations are doing the right

things in terms of slavery, because

1:06:101:06:14

people are coming across and victims

are being trafficked across and

1:06:141:06:18

without those members of the Marine

unit, we simply would not find out

1:06:181:06:22

what is going on, and they shared

with me most recently some real

1:06:221:06:28

concerns about what needs to be done

to help them make changes for those

1:06:281:06:34

people who find themselves in boats

being sent across the water. I look

1:06:341:06:41

forward to welcoming the comments

from the Minister and the

1:06:411:06:44

opportunity this House house to take

this act forward and indeed,

1:06:441:06:48

changing the lives of so many

people, just by opening our eyes.

1:06:481:06:55

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can

I begin by congratulating the

1:06:551:07:01

honourable member for Eastleigh. The

good thing about this debate is the

1:07:011:07:03

passion that is being shown on all

sides of the House. And probably for

1:07:031:07:07

the first and only time I want to

place on record my own recognition

1:07:071:07:12

of the value of the Prime Minister's

role when she was Home Secretary in

1:07:121:07:17

bringing forward this legislation.

Partly actually because it showed

1:07:171:07:23

leadership on an issue where

leadership is absolutely

1:07:231:07:26

fundamental, whether at national or

local level. It really does make a

1:07:261:07:29

difference. Perhaps I should begin

almost on the same track as my

1:07:291:07:37

friend for Birmingham Yardley. One I

was Police and Crime Commissioner in

1:07:371:07:42

Greater Manchester, a woman, when a

brothel was raided, she was asked

1:07:421:07:45

whether she was trafficked. She

denied vehemently that under any

1:07:451:07:51

circumstances she was trafficked,

until she was taken to room on her

1:07:511:07:54

own when she said, look, I have been

trafficked. I need you to drag me

1:07:541:08:00

out of here in handcuffs, with me

fighting and kicking and screaming,

1:08:001:08:03

because I need to demonstrate to my

traffickers that I am not a willing

1:08:031:08:10

accomplice. This woman was no sex

worker. She was a sex slave. In that

1:08:101:08:17

particular case, the police were

able to work with her to bring about

1:08:171:08:22

a different ambition. If I go back a

few years, my honourable friend for

1:08:221:08:27

Gedling said going back to his time

as police Minister, I don't think

1:08:271:08:31

any of us were talking enough about

slavery in that time. Even when I

1:08:311:08:36

first begin to have conversations

about the then Chief Constable and

1:08:361:08:40

the now Chief Constable, we did not

I think have in Greater Manchester a

1:08:401:08:46

proper understanding of what slavery

was all about. I'm glad to say the

1:08:461:08:50

HMIC report, which was critical of

policing, did say there were some

1:08:501:08:55

bright spots and Greater Manchester

was one of those bright spots. I

1:08:551:09:00

have pride, not in myself but among

the people who have made it work.

1:09:001:09:03

The has-been leadership from the

present Chief Constable. The Chief

1:09:031:09:11

Superintendent who has direct line

responsibility, and I want to praise

1:09:111:09:16

Detective Sergeant Debra Hurst and

her team, because this is a

1:09:161:09:20

dedicated small team of officers,

only four or five of them, who have

1:09:201:09:24

been committed to this role. Because

they have taken the time and they

1:09:241:09:27

care to understand what this is all

about, they have been able, if you

1:09:271:09:32

like, to affect the whole of Greater

Manchester Police and beyond with an

1:09:321:09:37

ambition to make a difference. GMP

has trained 120 victim liaison

1:09:371:09:42

officers. Dealing with people who

have been through the trauma of

1:09:421:09:48

enslavement, by working with them,

really is of fundamental importance.

1:09:481:09:54

There are many languages in Greater

Manchester. Slaves themselves, those

1:09:541:09:58

who are enslaved come from many

language backgrounds. The police

1:09:581:10:03

very often are facing cultural

differences. Even some very simple

1:10:031:10:07

issues that women from prostitution,

for example, face. They need things

1:10:071:10:13

like toiletries and clean underwear.

Those kind of furry basic needs. The

1:10:131:10:17

fact that we now have trained victim

liaison officers who can recognise

1:10:171:10:21

the need to go through the journey

with people from enslavement is

1:10:211:10:26

really an important issue. I think a

number of members on all sides have

1:10:261:10:31

talked about the need for a wider

partnership, and there is no doubt

1:10:311:10:36

building that kind of partnership

has a number of impacts. One is

1:10:361:10:43

immigration, the police and border

force are all absolutely fundamental

1:10:431:10:49

partners in this in making a system

of protective service work and that

1:10:491:10:55

does make a real difference.

Building that partnership is all

1:10:551:10:59

about something else. It does open

up the conversation about what

1:10:591:11:04

enslavement looks like in our

society. Frankly, it is everywhere.

1:11:041:11:09

Yes, it is obvious in some aspects

of prostitution. Sometimes we see

1:11:091:11:14

children who have been entrapped

into the county lines. Sometimes

1:11:141:11:21

these are issues which we know

exist. Frankly, the people enslaved

1:11:211:11:25

can be in almost any occupation, any

area of activity, and we need to

1:11:251:11:30

recognise that. We do therefore need

to raise public awareness and if you

1:11:301:11:35

like, corporate awareness as well. I

thought it was sad my honourable

1:11:351:11:39

friend for Bristol East made the

point about the criticism of Avon

1:11:391:11:43

and Somerset police force. Frankly,

it's a few police officers put nail

1:11:431:11:46

varnish on to bring home to the

public that in our nail bars there

1:11:461:11:51

may be people who are enslaved, I

don't think that such a terrible

1:11:511:11:55

thing to do. It is a sensible thing,

because it is actually saying to the

1:11:551:12:01

public, please be aware, please

think about where people around you

1:12:011:12:06

may be enslaved. A couple of points,

if I may. One of the things that I

1:12:061:12:13

hope the Minister will consider, at

the moment, there is a duty to

1:12:131:12:18

notify, but that duty to notify is

still circumscribed, but we may be

1:12:181:12:23

do need to look at extending that

concept. We also have talked,

1:12:231:12:27

members have talked about the

facilities for when people are

1:12:271:12:35

broken from their enslavement is.

Very often, one of the issues is

1:12:351:12:40

that first night accommodation.

Where do people go, literally on the

1:12:401:12:44

day that police and others bring

them? I have paid for a safe place

1:12:441:12:57

for that emergency accommodation but

we do need to look at the issue of

1:12:571:13:00

ongoing accommodation, and we do

need to work with the voluntary

1:13:001:13:05

sector in making sure that provision

is there. And they, provision of

1:13:051:13:12

institutional support is absolutely

fundamental in this. If I can

1:13:121:13:15

finish, perhaps on a good note, my

red for Gedling talked about the

1:13:151:13:20

need for compensation. There is a

case of a woman Alexandra, Hungarian

1:13:201:13:27

woman who was tricked into coming to

the UK to Greater Manchester, with

1:13:271:13:31

the offer of legitimate work. She

was forced to work and I will use

1:13:311:13:37

the term sex worker, on the streets

of Manchester. Nothing voluntary

1:13:371:13:42

about that. The good news is the

police were able to work with her.

1:13:421:13:46

They worked with her to such an

extent, that she came back too

1:13:461:13:51

hungry to take place in the

prosecution. The criminal injuries

1:13:511:13:55

authority did Ward, they should. She

is now living with her son in

1:13:551:14:00

Hungary, happy and free.

I congratulate the honourable

1:14:001:14:07

gentleman from Gedling on bringing

this important debate and also the

1:14:071:14:11

honourable lady from Birmingham

Yardley, she comes to this House

1:14:111:14:14

with a huge experience and passion

and we're lucky to have someone with

1:14:141:14:19

her background in this place. This

week there was a highly critical

1:14:191:14:23

report that found police forces are

failing to tackle modern slavery and

1:14:231:14:28

human trafficking because the cases

are often too difficult and senior

1:14:281:14:31

officers believe the public lack

sympathy for victims. This report

1:14:311:14:35

should concern us all as we consider

our international obligations and

1:14:351:14:39

how we support those who are

involved in trafficking and modern

1:14:391:14:43

slavery. Sadly I have my own

constituency experience. You come to

1:14:431:14:49

this role and you have an idea of

what you may or may not deal with.

1:14:491:14:54

In my constituency of Livingston, I

have to say I did not expect to deal

1:14:541:14:58

with modern slavery, but the case we

have had to deal with has been

1:14:581:15:01

deeply distressing for my

constituent and also my constituency

1:15:011:15:05

staff. She was trafficked from

Nigeria to London at the age of 14,

1:15:051:15:11

subjected to horrific abuse,

including rape, before she escaped

1:15:111:15:15

to my constituency of Livingston.

The Metropolitan Police worked

1:15:151:15:19

incredibly hard to bring charges

against her kidnapper, but told us

1:15:191:15:28

in the aftermath, and when we were

dealing with her case initially, the

1:15:281:15:31

burden of proof in these cases is

often so high, that they were not

1:15:311:15:34

able to charge anyone.

Unfortunately, the Home Office were

1:15:341:15:36

predicated on her leave to remain on

the conviction of her abuser, which

1:15:361:15:38

in itself I feel highlights the

flaws in the Home Office internal

1:15:381:15:41

processes. I do want to recognise

the work that has been done by the

1:15:411:15:45

Government in bringing the bonds

slavery act and the work they are

1:15:451:15:48

doing, but I think my constituency

case highlights some of the

1:15:481:15:53

challenges and floors -- Modern

Slavery Act. I identify some of the

1:15:531:16:01

issues. I would advise that the

burden of proof in a criminal case

1:16:011:16:05

is far higher beyond all reasonable

doubt than of a civil case. In light

1:16:051:16:13

of this, I would suggest any outcome

of a criminal case not impact on any

1:16:131:16:18

immigration appeal. I know the Prime

Minister when she was Home Secretary

1:16:181:16:23

commissioned a report which said

slavery remained under reported but

1:16:231:16:27

operational response was improving,

however the response said there was

1:16:271:16:31

a lack of consistency between

law-enforcement and criminal justice

1:16:311:16:35

agencies and poor quality

intelligence at all levels.

1:16:351:16:41

As things stand, my constituency has

-- my

1:16:411:16:46

As things stand, my constituency has

-- my constituent has the temporary

1:16:461:16:48

right to remain. The Home Office

needs to review its processes and

1:16:481:16:51

this case. The case might have been

difficult but the officers who

1:16:511:16:55

worked on it fought tooth and nail

from a constituent and I want to pay

1:16:551:17:01

tribute to the Met Police and put on

record how grateful I am for the

1:17:011:17:07

work they did to protect my

constituent when she was scared,

1:17:071:17:10

scared to send her children to

school, when she was worried her

1:17:101:17:14

attacker may come to Scotland and

seek her out. The notion that

1:17:141:17:19

anybody can that empathy or

sympathy, to me, it beggars belief.

1:17:191:17:25

That is what the report says.

Listening to the case of my

1:17:251:17:29

constituent, anyone would find it

difficult, and the cases of others

1:17:291:17:32

brought forward, to have sympathy

for those. She was brought at the

1:17:321:17:39

age of 14, taken to Nigeria, an

airport, given clothes and told she

1:17:391:17:46

would be leaving the country. The

women who took her told her not to

1:17:461:17:50

talk to anyone and do she was told.

She was brought to London and taken

1:17:501:17:54

to a house where she was told she

would be staying and looking after

1:17:541:17:58

children. She asked the woman when

she would be going back to school.

1:17:581:18:02

It was the first time the woman

slapped her. Mrs George asked about

1:18:021:18:06

her mother and she was told only to

speak when she was spoken to and

1:18:061:18:09

that she would not be allowed to

make any friends. Her daily routine

1:18:091:18:13

but getting up at 5am to get the

children ready for school,

1:18:131:18:17

collecting them, shopping, cleaning,

cooking. If she went out on an

1:18:171:18:23

errand, the woman would spit on the

floor and tell her she had to be

1:18:231:18:26

back before the split had dried or

she would be beaten. She was beaten

1:18:261:18:34

on a daily basis, she had her head

flushed down the toilet, she was

1:18:341:18:38

often privy to what we believe were

drug deals within the house. She had

1:18:381:18:43

a kettle of boiling water poured

over her chest. The details are very

1:18:431:18:50

distressing. My constituent gave us

permission before I came to the

1:18:501:18:54

House today to share those. I have

not shared them publicly before

1:18:541:18:58

although I have raised the case and

I am grateful for the work done by

1:18:581:19:02

the Home Office. Mrs George was

terrified that she would be killed

1:19:021:19:05

and that nobody would know she was

there. She was told if she ran away,

1:19:051:19:09

nobody would believe her. There was

nowhere for her to hide and she

1:19:091:19:13

would not be found, she was told.

She said there were often men honey

1:19:131:19:18

around and eventually when she

escaped at 17, she spent some time

1:19:181:19:22

on the streets, homeless, and

eventually was held at knife-point

1:19:221:19:25

and raped in North London -- men

hanging around. She escaped with her

1:19:251:19:30

now husband to Livingston, they have

jobs, three children, beautiful

1:19:301:19:36

children, they started a new life in

Livingston, but when she applied for

1:19:361:19:41

indefinite leave to remain, she was

told she could not work. Since the

1:19:411:19:46

Home Office intervention and

temporary leave to remain, both her

1:19:461:19:49

and her husband have returned to

work and her husband recently won an

1:19:491:19:54

award for social entrepreneurship.

It seems incredible that today

1:19:541:19:58

anybody would face such persecution

and such terrible treatment, but it

1:19:581:20:04

is the reality of my constituent and

I asked the Minister today to work

1:20:041:20:07

with me to look again at this case.

It is so distressing. She has come

1:20:071:20:12

to Livingston and spent significant

years there bringing up her children

1:20:121:20:18

and contributing to society. The

Scottish Government has done a huge

1:20:181:20:21

amount of work on the Sun published

its trafficking and exploitation

1:20:211:20:24

strategy to identify Papa support

victims and disrupt activity. I know

1:20:241:20:33

the Scottish Government is hugely

committed to that work and would

1:20:331:20:36

encourage the UK Government to look

at the good example being worked on.

1:20:361:20:43

-- to identify perpetrators. The

flaws that exist in the legal system

1:20:431:20:50

and in the Home Office are real,

real constituency cases we have, so

1:20:501:20:55

I hope the minister is listening and

she will do all she can to make sure

1:20:551:20:59

the flaws in the system are sorted

out.

Thank you. May I congratulate

1:20:591:21:06

the right honourable friend for

moving this important debate? It

1:21:061:21:11

goes without saying human

trafficking, sexual exploitation,

1:21:111:21:18

forced labour, organ harvesting,

servitude, to name but a few forms

1:21:181:21:23

of modern slavery, it is criminally

deplorable. For many people, it goes

1:21:231:21:26

unseen. It is for this House and for

others to make it clear slavery

1:21:261:21:33

continues to exist at every level of

our society, including in my

1:21:331:21:38

constituency of Bristol North West.

As recently as July, as my right

1:21:381:21:42

honourable friend said, even in

Somerset a nail bombers raided,

1:21:421:21:49

arresting four people on suspicion

of human trafficking and slavery. --

1:21:491:21:53

a nail bar was raided. In one of my

first constituency surgeries as a

1:21:531:22:01

new MP, and constituent came to me

with little English, tearful, unable

1:22:011:22:04

to communicate the sheer

disempowerment and lack of dignity

1:22:041:22:10

she had suffered from sexual

exploitation in another part of this

1:22:101:22:13

country, but thanks to the helpline

and Modern Slavery Act, she was

1:22:131:22:24

being supported, although with the

slow visa process. Car washes and

1:22:241:22:29

nail bars require local knowledge. I

shared concerns that the papers have

1:22:291:22:37

so-called reported a backlash

against Avon and Somerset

1:22:371:22:40

Constabulary for wanting to raise

this issue on social media in a way

1:22:401:22:45

that communicates to people in their

daily lives to keep an eye out for

1:22:451:22:48

where do you see these activities

happening, and so with thanks to my

1:22:481:22:52

honourable friend 's, perhaps it

is... I too proudly paint my nails

1:22:521:23:01

today in support of the Let's Nail

It Campaign. For those... It is not

1:23:011:23:12

an endorsement of Eddie Izzard for

the labour NEC. We know much more

1:23:121:23:17

needs to be done and in the face of

continued and severe cuts to

1:23:171:23:21

policing, the job is becoming more

difficult. I often stand here and

1:23:211:23:26

say Bristol is leading the way, but

perhaps that is the case with this

1:23:261:23:32

too. In 2008, there were safe

houses. In 2011, resettlement

1:23:321:23:37

service. In 2013, the establishment

of the anti-slavery partnership in

1:23:371:23:43

Bristol and now the headquarters of

the national charity Unseen. In true

1:23:431:23:50

Bristol fashion, we are also

innovating in the way we do these

1:23:501:23:53

things. As the honourable member has

mentioned, the transparency and

1:23:531:23:57

supply chains report, the TISC

report, helping to track and monitor

1:23:571:24:02

compliance with the modern slavery

act, it was built in Bristol

1:24:021:24:09

providing the compliant solution to

prevent modern slavery. But there is

1:24:091:24:12

little point in legislating without

enforcement. We have already heard

1:24:121:24:19

about the difficulties of police

being able to enforce because of

1:24:191:24:23

cuts to funding, but even the TISC

report which has a growing list of

1:24:231:24:28

over 2000 companies who continue to

not comply with their reporting

1:24:281:24:33

obligations under the act, I do not

know whether the minister has seen

1:24:331:24:36

the report, I'm very happy to

arrange for a copy to be given to

1:24:361:24:40

her, but I hope she will set out

what she will do to ensure companies

1:24:401:24:43

get in line and take this matter

seriously. I finally draw attention

1:24:431:24:50

to the issue of construction

projects. Web projects are entirely

1:24:501:24:55

privately funded, checks and

balances are by Prost and with the

1:24:551:24:59

use of subcontractors who

subcontract, umbrella companies to

1:24:591:25:04

sign a deal but do not employ

workers themselves, the situation

1:25:041:25:07

becomes much more complex. It is

often at the depths of the

1:25:071:25:12

subcontractor chain were

exploitation takes place. I raise

1:25:121:25:15

this because I have significant

construction projects in or near my

1:25:151:25:22

constituency, Hinkley Point C,

supply chains, new homes, expanding

1:25:221:25:27

retail, major infrastructure

upgrades in Bristol. I understand

1:25:271:25:30

from trade union officials who play

a vital role on the shop floor

1:25:301:25:34

checking whether this exploitation

is happening that there are concerns

1:25:341:25:39

of unethical working practices and

moving on modern slavery, in that I

1:25:391:25:44

am working with them on. Learning

the lessons from the Welsh

1:25:441:25:47

Government who have brought together

unethical working practices

1:25:471:25:51

alongside modern slavery to create

an ethical workplace constituents, I

1:25:511:25:55

will begin a new project next year

to to eradicate unethical working

1:25:551:26:00

practices and modern slavery from my

constituency. To those individuals

1:26:001:26:04

and companies who we know exploit or

enslave constituents, or those who

1:26:041:26:09

enslave others, let me be clear, you

are on notice, you are not welcome,

1:26:091:26:15

working with partners, we will

ensure you are prosecuted. In order

1:26:151:26:19

to do this work properly, I must

work with businesses, trade unions,

1:26:191:26:25

community groups, and important

innovations such as the TISC report

1:26:251:26:29

with proper funding for policing and

support from the Home Office to

1:26:291:26:33

support those who have been

enslaved, so I make the final plea

1:26:331:26:36

to the minister to set out how the

government in face of all of these

1:26:361:26:40

challenges will ensure a good piece

of legislation in the Modern Slavery

1:26:401:26:45

Act is enforced properly and how we

can work with partners to ensure is

1:26:451:26:49

that is the case.

I appreciate the

opportunity to speak in this debate

1:26:491:26:55

on a subject I feel very strongly

about because it is one that gets to

1:26:551:26:58

the root of who and where we are as

a society, it tells us a lot about

1:26:581:27:03

whether we truly are the peaceful,

free, modern 21st-century democracy

1:27:031:27:08

we strive to be and that we support

others to be as well. Much we have

1:27:081:27:12

heard in this debate, much to be

proud of, I am new to this place,

1:27:121:27:16

but I am aware of the 2015 at it has

been described as trailblazing, and

1:27:161:27:21

we should celebrate there are those

protections for individuals in law.

1:27:211:27:25

We should celebrate the obligations

on businesses to be transparent

1:27:251:27:29

about modern slavery and the

possible risk and we should

1:27:291:27:33

celebrate the great legal powers for

the authorities to bring those to

1:27:331:27:36

justice who do the awful things we

have heard in this discussion. But

1:27:361:27:39

as last week we celebrate the

passing of modern slavery day, it is

1:27:391:27:44

right we consider how the law is

doing and how we can make sure it

1:27:441:27:47

delivers

1:27:471:27:57

what we want it to. I would like to

congratulate my honourable friend

1:28:031:28:05

for securing this debate, I was

proud to support it, but also to

1:28:051:28:08

congratulate him on his work as

co-chair of the old parliamentary

1:28:081:28:10

party group on human trafficking. I

know members are very active in

1:28:101:28:12

that. I will focus on firstly

awareness and secondly what we might

1:28:121:28:15

do to the current legislation. I

start with awareness because as I

1:28:151:28:17

guess... I have learned something in

the course of this discussion I did

1:28:171:28:20

not know. The honourable member

highlighted the scheme that is

1:28:201:28:22

apparently, if I have understood,

operating in my dioceses, so I will

1:28:221:28:27

be seeking them out to see how I

might help with that. Having laid my

1:28:271:28:33

own ignorance on the table, I was

shocked to read the results of the

1:28:331:28:37

polls by the Co-op Group that one in

five people in Britain have never

1:28:371:28:40

heard of modern slavery and two

thirds, the critical thing, would

1:28:401:28:44

not know what to do to spot the

crime. Furthermore, that poll said a

1:28:441:28:49

tenth of Britons think they may have

come across a victim yet half would

1:28:491:28:53

not know how to react or who to talk

to, a poll of 2000 people. Clearly

1:28:531:28:58

there is something that must be done

and that is a role for us in this

1:28:581:29:02

place and as leaders in our

communities and an important role

1:29:021:29:06

the business and local authorities

to plague heightening awareness,

1:29:061:29:08

using whatever power or influence

they have to make sure people know

1:29:081:29:14

what is going on, how to spot it,

and what to do. Before I came to

1:29:141:29:19

this place, I was a member of

Nottingham City Council, one of my

1:29:191:29:24

special responsibilities was around

procurement. It is very difficult on

1:29:241:29:28

a monthly procurement committee, an

awful lot of very important thing is

1:29:281:29:34

commissioned, from public sources,

private sources, community and

1:29:341:29:37

voluntary sector sources, following

the pounds through, as the

1:29:371:29:41

honourable member said, through the

first commissioning process to where

1:29:411:29:44

they might be going next, very

difficult. Perhaps we could learn

1:29:441:29:48

from the Welsh Assembly government

about their code of practice to make

1:29:481:29:51

sure local authority leads are able

to properly follow the money and

1:29:511:29:57

make sure they are not doing things

they would not countenance they

1:29:571:30:00

would do. Outside of statutory

services, innovative employment

1:30:001:30:04

programme such as the Co-op and

anti-trafficking group which claims

1:30:041:30:10

to offer proper work to victims of

modern slavery, so they can get on

1:30:101:30:14

and get their lives back to normal

and be treated properly. Those are

1:30:141:30:18

the sorts of things we can do around

awareness, just last month, the

1:30:181:30:23

Prime Minister, who I want to

associate myself with comments

1:30:231:30:26

across the House about and the Prime

Minister is leading that, she said

1:30:261:30:30

she hoped we would reimagine the

British dream, time to forge a bold

1:30:301:30:34

new role for ourselves on the world

stage and take the lead on cracking

1:30:341:30:39

down on modern slavery wherever it

is found, and that is really

1:30:391:30:43

important. Moving on to the act, the

member state it that she did not

1:30:431:30:47

feel the estimates of 10-13,000

exploited people were accurate, I

1:30:471:30:52

share that, I know the police think

it is the tip of the iceberg and the

1:30:521:30:58

tsar has described the estimate as

far too low. We know we need to do

1:30:581:31:02

more to find these victims and help

them out. A good place to start is

1:31:021:31:06

with the obligation of transparency,

to look at the businesses or

1:31:061:31:11

businesses operating in the UK with

a global turnover of 36 million to

1:31:111:31:15

see, is this working? I have tabled

written questions to ministers, not

1:31:151:31:20

to show anyone up, but to build up a

picture of what has happened and I

1:31:201:31:23

know it is very variable in terms of

how firms have treated the

1:31:231:31:29

obligation and what we understand in

the aggregate as a parliament, as to

1:31:291:31:33

the impact. We need to look at but

to see what we can do with the

1:31:331:31:37

public sector, to see whether 36

million has proven and effective

1:31:371:31:41

threshold, to close the loophole, I

am concerned with the 2022 World Cup

1:31:411:31:46

in Qatar. At the moment the

legislation has a loophole which

1:31:461:31:49

means there is no obligation to

report on wholly-owned subsidiaries

1:31:491:31:55

working overseas who could be

working in Qatar but there is no

1:31:551:31:59

obligation to report. Firms may

unwittingly be involved in things

1:31:591:32:03

they would not countenance doing in

Britain and elsewhere and we should

1:32:031:32:05

be concerned about that.

1:32:051:32:10

There are other things we can do as

well. The 45 day support has been

1:32:101:32:15

played out by others. Scotland is

moving to 90 days. We should look at

1:32:151:32:20

the same, perhaps even further. And

to look at what that offer of

1:32:201:32:25

assistance and support should be.

The 36 million threshold, we could

1:32:251:32:31

revisit also. Eventually, and I

think this touches on what the

1:32:311:32:33

previous speech from my honourable

friend was saying, eventually, the

1:32:331:32:39

shoe has to drop with noncompliant

companies. I can understand that

1:32:391:32:44

people would say initially as new

legislation comes in, there might be

1:32:441:32:48

some patients from firms to get it

right, but now we are getting to the

1:32:481:32:52

point where those reports have to be

done, they have to be accurate and

1:32:521:32:56

the penalties for not doing so

should be considerable. So there is

1:32:561:33:00

lots to do. I think all of those

things would improve this

1:33:001:33:04

legislation and improve our

society's approach to modern

1:33:041:33:07

slavery. I am one of 38 labour and

co-op members of Parliament and this

1:33:071:33:12

is one of the key issues for this

year. I will be using my place in

1:33:121:33:17

this chamber and the rest of the

other great opportunities we have

1:33:171:33:22

two raise this issue in the House

and outside and make sure we make

1:33:221:33:27

the legislation as best as possible

and we shine a light into the dark

1:33:271:33:31

corners.

Can I start by sincerely

1:33:311:33:36

congratulating the honourable member

for Gedling and his colleagues for

1:33:361:33:40

bringing this timely and important

debate, and indeed honourable

1:33:401:33:42

members who have taken part today

for their thoughtful and powerful

1:33:421:33:46

speeches. I recently had the

pleasure to visit the slave trade

1:33:461:33:51

Museum in Liverpool, shockingly and

bravely set out the close link

1:33:511:33:56

between that fantastic city and the

historic slave trade from Liverpool

1:33:561:34:04

ships transporting thousands across

the Atlantic. Many people would

1:34:041:34:08

think that was the only place you

would still find slavery today in

1:34:081:34:11

the UK. If this debate has drawn

attention to its ongoing existence,

1:34:111:34:19

that is good thing, and I think the

painted nails will help in that

1:34:191:34:23

regard. But despair after this

parliament voted to abolish the

1:34:231:34:29

slave trade we are once again must

face down a new and modern form of

1:34:291:34:34

slavery and trafficking. We have

heard the estimate of ten to 30,000

1:34:341:34:39

victims in the UK is likely to be a

grave underestimate, and as members

1:34:391:34:45

have outlined, it affect on each of

those victims is absolutely

1:34:451:34:48

immeasurable. We all sincerely hope

that 2015 will be looked back upon

1:34:481:34:52

as a turning point, the year in

which three different parliaments

1:34:521:34:57

took up that battle by passing

legislation first of all here, then

1:34:571:35:00

at Holyrood and then in Stormont.

That legislation has been widely

1:35:001:35:06

praised. Stronger powers, risk

orders, independent child advocates,

1:35:061:35:13

the one thing the Minister might

want to addresses when they are

1:35:131:35:16

going to be rolled out across

England and Wales, and the duty to

1:35:161:35:20

notify all of which make for a solid

legislative platform on which to

1:35:201:35:24

build. Yet again we have a very

salutary lesson that legislation in

1:35:241:35:29

itself is not enough, just as indeed

the 1807 act was one step too long

1:35:291:35:34

route to ending slave trade. In her

one-year review, Caroline Haughey

1:35:341:35:44

said the act was a work in progress

and said it could have a strong

1:35:441:35:50

impact is used to its full potential

and that is undoubtedly true. I

1:35:501:35:54

commend those on bringing the

debate, focusing on implementation

1:35:541:35:58

and they could not have timed it any

better with the publication of Her

1:35:581:36:06

Majesty Inspector of Constabulary

report from earlier on this week.

1:36:061:36:08

One frustration at looking at that,

it almost feels like the Haughey

1:36:081:36:14

review has been sat on a shelf and

allowed to gather dust in some

1:36:141:36:19

respects. Haughey suggested there

was a need for specialism in forces

1:36:191:36:23

by using single points of contact.

She also points to the importance of

1:36:231:36:28

intelligence capacity at regional

and international levels and the

1:36:281:36:31

need for tailored training,

especially for front line police and

1:36:311:36:36

criminal Justice staff. Reading the

HMIC report, it is clear that is not

1:36:361:36:42

happening in far too many places.

Mrs Haughey found pockets of good

1:36:421:36:47

practice and the honourable member

for Rochdale referred to Greater

1:36:471:36:50

Manchester Police who were strongly

praised but overall, the conclusions

1:36:501:36:55

cannot be described as anything

other than disappointing. The

1:36:551:36:58

victims have been let down and the

police services have to do more

1:36:581:37:03

before it is satisfied and

responding quickly to modern slavery

1:37:031:37:05

and human trafficking. As four chief

constables acknowledge, this report

1:37:051:37:12

has to be seen as a wake-up call. I

detect a willingness there to detect

1:37:121:37:17

this. There are two review setting

out what has to be done. What we

1:37:171:37:21

also need is a government to provide

resources and a strategy to make it

1:37:211:37:25

happen. A huge range of issues have

been raised to date quite rightly by

1:37:251:37:36

honourable members. One which has

been mentioned already, is what

1:37:361:37:38

happens in terms of immigration

rules if victims are discovered.

1:37:381:37:40

There is report by the work and

pensions committee and made powerful

1:37:401:37:47

reports about workers in Dubai about

the immigration status and the

1:37:471:37:52

effect it has an access to support.

There are those who will be

1:37:521:37:58

recognised as refugees. There are

smaller numbers of non-EU nationals

1:37:581:38:02

who have obtained discretion leave

without having to apply, and a

1:38:021:38:05

similar number of EEA nationals who

are granted that but only after an

1:38:051:38:10

application first of all. For many,

there is no stability. That is

1:38:101:38:15

particularly the case for EEA

nationals who are almost certainly

1:38:151:38:19

going to find it impossible to show

that they are exercising treaty

1:38:191:38:22

rights hair, and that has a knock-on

implementation on their ability to

1:38:221:38:29

claim support. The lack of automatic

entitlement for victims of

1:38:291:38:34

trafficking when they are taking

steps to rebuild their lives is a

1:38:341:38:40

ludicrous situation. As an

anti-slavery campaigner pointed out,

1:38:401:38:46

there is precedent for those who are

here as domestic servants. We

1:38:461:38:51

recommend all victims be given

one-year's leave to remain. Imminent

1:38:511:39:02

removal is a result of coming

forward as a victim of trafficking,

1:39:021:39:05

we are going to struggle to find any

victims of traffickers to prosecute.

1:39:051:39:15

We need stronger firewall

established between those bodies

1:39:151:39:18

enforcing labour standards and those

enforcing immigration checks. They

1:39:181:39:24

often have an inconsistent approach

and that will be an important issue

1:39:241:39:28

for the new director of labour

market and force meant going

1:39:281:39:30

forward. The second issue which has

been touched on by the honourable

1:39:301:39:35

members for Bristol East and

Erewash, is the issue of the supply

1:39:351:39:41

chains and statements of companies

with a turnover of more than £36

1:39:411:39:45

million. It is one of the few

provisions in the act to apply

1:39:451:39:48

across the UK. It's clear that these

need to be significantly

1:39:481:39:53

strengthened. There must be a

requirement to file these with the

1:39:531:40:00

public authority in much greater

clarity and what is required in

1:40:001:40:03

them. Mil returns cannot be

acceptable otherwise, these

1:40:031:40:08

provisions will be proved to be

barely worth the paper they are

1:40:081:40:13

written on. In conclusion, the 2015

legislation was a welcome start,

1:40:131:40:19

only a start, if the modern slavery

attacked is to become the turning

1:40:191:40:23

point it can be, resources need to

be stepped up -- the Modern Slavery

1:40:231:40:29

Act.

I want to thank the Backbench

1:40:291:40:32

Business Committee and the right

honourable member for Gedling for

1:40:321:40:40

leading us on the debate. Have been

many fantastic contributions from

1:40:401:40:46

both sides of the House, including

from honourable friends, the members

1:40:461:40:51

for Livingston, Cumbernauld and I

would also like to thank the member

1:40:511:40:59

for Birmingham Yardley for sharing

her powerful experiences of working

1:40:591:41:02

within the sector. The debates are

better with her in it. Sometimes, as

1:41:021:41:09

my honourable friend said, I think

we allow our selves to believe that

1:41:091:41:13

human trafficking takes place in

some other country, some other

1:41:131:41:17

culture and some other time and

place. However, as we have heard, it

1:41:171:41:21

is happening here throughout our

communities. The perfectly laudable

1:41:211:41:31

Modern Slavery Act aims to get rid

of slavery including domestic

1:41:311:41:35

servitude and organ removal. These

are cases which costs when we hear

1:41:351:41:40

about them on the news. But we are

misguided if we believe that human

1:41:401:41:51

trafficking and exploitation does

not tech base at home. Two thirds of

1:41:511:41:55

victims are women that human

trafficking can be committed against

1:41:551:42:00

men, women, boys or girls.

Travelling from one place to another

1:42:001:42:05

is not required action for it to be

an offence in Scotland and it does

1:42:051:42:08

not matter of the victim has

consented or not. Statistics from

1:42:081:42:12

the National Crime Agency have

reported that 3805 potential victims

1:42:121:42:18

were submitted to the National

framework. As the right honourable

1:42:181:42:28

friend for Gedling stated, that was

a 70% increase on the previous year.

1:42:281:42:33

150 victims were from Scotland, 123

from Wales and 33 from Northern

1:42:331:42:40

Ireland. Behind these damning

statistics are horrifying stories

1:42:401:42:43

where lives have been destroyed,

where women have been abused or

1:42:431:42:47

children have been sexually

exploited and workers have been

1:42:471:42:52

forced to work without pay. Despite

implementation of the act, the

1:42:521:42:56

National Crime Agency is warning

about the scale of modern slavery,

1:42:561:43:00

stating it is far more prevalent

than previously estimated, with

1:43:001:43:04

alleged victims as young as 12 are

being sold and exploited. However,

1:43:041:43:08

at the moment the police service

seems to be unable to tackle this

1:43:081:43:12

issue. If we accept the Government

funding issues that police are under

1:43:121:43:20

but police forces are failing to

recognise the crimes which make up

1:43:201:43:23

modern slavery. A recent report has

been referenced already by Her

1:43:231:43:33

Majesty's Inspectorate of

Constabulary. It states rather

1:43:331:43:35

bluntly that victims of modern

slavery has been let down at every

1:43:351:43:38

stage. It States cases are not being

quickly enough and some victims are

1:43:381:43:49

not identified. I cannot believe

that when a case of suspected

1:43:491:43:54

slavery is suspected, the

authority's first response is to

1:43:541:43:59

check the immigration status rather

than stopping the abhorrent abuse.

1:43:591:44:04

Cases of slavery and suspected

slavery are being closed without

1:44:041:44:08

detectives even speaking to victims.

When the director of the

1:44:081:44:14

Inspectorate of Constabulary spoke

they said we found investigations

1:44:141:44:19

closed prematurely. Victims were

being left unprotected leaving

1:44:191:44:23

perpetrators free to exploit people

as commodities. Madam Deputy

1:44:231:44:27

Speaker, this is simply not good

enough. We are failing those who

1:44:271:44:30

need our help the most. Women made a

vow that Britain would lead the

1:44:301:44:41

world in ending modern slavery. How

close are we to achieving this aim

1:44:411:44:45

is Mac we felt catch those who are

reported to appropriate authorities.

1:44:451:44:51

We should be concerned at the

fermentation of division is failing

1:44:511:44:54

at the moment. Madam Deputy Speaker,

as chair of the all-party group on

1:44:541:45:01

the White ribbon campaign, I take

pride in the national movement which

1:45:011:45:04

stresses the important role that men

can play in ending abuse that too

1:45:041:45:08

many of our young girls face on a

daily basis. Gender-based violence,

1:45:081:45:14

including the Porritt act of

trafficking affect every society and

1:45:141:45:17

we have the moral and political

responsibility to create a society

1:45:171:45:20

where this is consigned to the

history books. Unfortunately, Brexit

1:45:201:45:28

may have consequences on the

Government's ability to protect

1:45:281:45:32

people from being victims of modern

slavery practices. A report said

1:45:321:45:40

Brexit could curtail the efforts to

end human trafficking. Many lawyers

1:45:401:45:46

make use of the EU to defend

trafficking due to the lack of

1:45:461:45:52

safeguards provided in the act.

Brexit will make it harder for the

1:45:521:45:55

UK to work with other EU partners to

solve crimes which take place across

1:45:551:46:00

national boundaries. The 2005

convention is a great example of

1:46:001:46:05

European countries working together

to protect people being caught in

1:46:051:46:09

trafficking. The campaign group

chairman speaks about this

1:46:091:46:14

particular issue involving every

trafficking victims protection has

1:46:141:46:23

been implemented as a direct result

of the convention. It is said Brexit

1:46:231:46:28

will make it harder to tackle this

issue. Therefore, as other members

1:46:281:46:32

have mentioned, the Prime Minister

has two guaranteed that that

1:46:321:46:36

security cooperation will continue

following our exit from the EU and

1:46:361:46:40

this must be a crucial part of

negotiations.

1:46:401:46:52

The Scottish Parliament has

unanimously passed the human

1:46:521:46:58

trafficking act to consolidate the

existing law and enhance the status

1:46:581:47:03

of and support for the victims. The

act also strengthen the penalties

1:47:031:47:08

which can be passed down to a

maximum of life in prison. The

1:47:081:47:11

Scottish Government published a

strategy to set out how we as a

1:47:111:47:18

country intend to eliminate this

crime from our society. It was

1:47:181:47:22

developed in partnership with

support groups and those who have

1:47:221:47:26

survived human trafficking offences

and it aims to identify and support

1:47:261:47:31

victims, disrupt activity, and

address the conditions which foster

1:47:311:47:34

trafficking. By listening and

learning from victims, the Scottish

1:47:341:47:38

Government have been able to capture

the physical and psychological

1:47:381:47:41

damage caused by trafficking. This

new strategy has been welcomed by

1:47:411:47:47

important stakeholders including the

Lord Advocate who said, we work on

1:47:471:47:52

publication of the trafficking and

exploitation strategy comic human

1:47:521:47:55

trafficking is a serious and complex

crime presenting unique challenges,

1:47:551:48:00

the strategy will work hand-in-hand

with the tools at our disposal to

1:48:001:48:04

tackle this abhorrent trade. As the

member for Nottingham North said,

1:48:041:48:11

the Scottish Government has also

announced a period of support for

1:48:111:48:17

victims of trafficking has been

doubled to 90 days, Scotland is

1:48:171:48:19

leading the way. This is something

the victims of human trafficking

1:48:191:48:24

have been calling for and I would

encourage the UK Government to

1:48:241:48:28

follow Scotland's lead. In

conclusion, this has been a

1:48:281:48:32

consensual yet challenging debate it

is one of the scandals of the modern

1:48:321:48:38

age that we have to debate this at

all. Everyone could be affected by

1:48:381:48:46

these sick and abhorrent crimes and

we should all be deeply concerned

1:48:461:48:49

this is still happening and further

involvement

more, it is growing.

1:48:491:48:57

Today's debate should serve as a

wake-up call for us to do more to

1:48:571:49:00

rid society and the world of modern

slavery.

Thank you. I would like to

1:49:001:49:09

start by congratulating the

honourable member for not only the

1:49:091:49:14

debate but that excellent way he

takes the lead on this issue. I

1:49:141:49:18

would like to congratulate the

members for Bristol East and North

1:49:181:49:23

West, Rochdale and Nottingham North,

for their excellent contributions

1:49:231:49:28

today. I would like to pay special

tribute to the members from

1:49:281:49:31

Birmingham Yardley and Livingston

for bringing the real-life

1:49:311:49:37

consequences of the evil practice of

slavery into the Chamber today. The

1:49:371:49:41

modern slavery act was when this

house passed it a landmark piece of

1:49:411:49:49

legislation which provided

leadership on a global scale.

1:49:491:49:53

However, the lack of subsequent

legislation has meant it now risks

1:49:531:49:57

becoming less effective on key

issues of the fight against modern

1:49:571:50:01

slavery. Madam Deputy Speaker, I

will start by setting the scene.

1:50:011:50:09

45.8 million people are enslaved

worldwide. This can be anything from

1:50:091:50:16

forced labour, forced marriage,

forced sexual exploitation. In the

1:50:161:50:20

UK, one of the most developed

countries in the world, there are an

1:50:201:50:29

underestimated 13,000 in modern-day

slavery today. This is far too many.

1:50:291:50:36

As was alluded to by the honourable

member, companies who have made

1:50:361:50:43

statements under section 54 of that

act are in the minority, the

1:50:431:50:48

majority have not. Those who have

made a statement, the quality ranges

1:50:481:50:51

from very good, and I would

specifically name Marks & Spencer 's

1:50:511:50:56

and the Co-operative, to virtually

worthless. Ministers have done

1:50:561:51:04

nothing to address this, leaving

businesses free to carry on and take

1:51:041:51:09

no action, despite what this House

legislated for. We must put into

1:51:091:51:15

place a regime where this house can

be confident that its wishes as

1:51:151:51:20

expressed and that the commitment to

the Modern Slavery Act is fulfilled.

1:51:201:51:24

I ask the Minister come up when will

the Government publish a list of all

1:51:241:51:31

companies that should be producing

statements regarding the modern

1:51:311:51:38

slavery policies? -- I asked the

Minister, when will the Government.

1:51:381:51:42

The police do a fantastic job when

they protect and rescue individuals

1:51:421:51:46

from slavery, but the HMIC report

published earlier this week was a

1:51:461:51:51

stark reality check for us all. The

report tells us that all too often

1:51:511:51:57

the traffickers threats to the

victims that they have no means of

1:51:571:52:00

escape, as they will not be

believed, has sadly become a

1:52:001:52:04

self-fulfilling prophecy. The

report's biggest critique outlined

1:52:041:52:11

the policing surrounding modern

slavery and human trafficking is

1:52:111:52:15

reactive rather than proactive. So

more must be done to support

1:52:151:52:20

vulnerable people to ensure that

they will not be placed in the hands

1:52:201:52:24

of traffickers. It is vital that we

learn how traffickers prey on the

1:52:241:52:31

victim 's so that we are able to be

more of -- more effective. Does the

1:52:311:52:38

Minister agree that there is a real

need to improve training for police,

1:52:381:52:42

to help them better understand how

to identify victim 's and how best

1:52:421:52:49

to respond to the issues? Now I

would like to move the problematic

1:52:491:52:55

national referral mechanism. Adults

are required to consent to their

1:52:551:53:01

referral but without appropriate

funding, support and accommodation,

1:53:011:53:06

and a suitable environment when they

can get proper advice to allow them

1:53:061:53:09

to make informed decisions, far too

many turn to homelessness or even

1:53:091:53:18

worse, return to the traffickers.

All too often, the forms are rushed,

1:53:181:53:28

just to make sure the person

concerned has access to

1:53:281:53:32

accommodation. This means that at

times forms or incomplete or contain

1:53:321:53:38

inaccurate information. This

undermines the individual's

1:53:381:53:40

credibility. Legal advice and

representation must be offered early

1:53:401:53:47

to all potential victims to support

them in understanding their rights,

1:53:471:53:54

giving them access to justice, and a

real opportunity to move on with

1:53:541:53:59

their lives. Government support is

withdrawn quickly, after a

1:53:591:54:05

conclusive groundwork decision is

made. NGOs are often having to pick

1:54:051:54:13

up the pieces because of a lack of

resources and awareness among local

1:54:131:54:17

authorities. Safe house

accommodation should be more

1:54:171:54:21

flexible, with support diminishing

gradually, according to the needs of

1:54:211:54:30

the individual, and not just the rug

pulled out from under them. Not only

1:54:301:54:34

is the lack of support detrimental

to the individuals, it makes it

1:54:341:54:40

difficult for police and prosecutors

to do their job. Police have spoken

1:54:401:54:45

about losing survivors because of

lack of support. NGOs have spoken

1:54:451:54:51

about their anxiety caused by an

insecure immigration status and how

1:54:511:54:57

that prevents survivors in dealing

with traumatic experiences. Victims

1:54:571:55:05

are entitled to only 45 days of

support following rescue. This is

1:55:051:55:10

simply not enough. And regardless of

how well organised that 45 days

1:55:101:55:17

support is, it is still not enough

many of those rescued want to regain

1:55:171:55:23

control of their lives through

schemes like the Co-op's project

1:55:231:55:31

Bright Future, giving them a pathway

back to paid employment, but they

1:55:311:55:35

cannot because either they have not

had the support to get them ready

1:55:351:55:39

for work or they do not have the

legal right to work. Victims

1:55:391:55:47

continue to be denied access to

vital services they need to recover

1:55:471:55:50

and rebuild their lives. Authorities

often prioritise immigration control

1:55:501:55:57

over the safety of victims. This can

leave adults and children vulnerable

1:55:571:56:03

to going missing. Traffickers see

these individuals as vulnerable and

1:56:031:56:08

the current system is being

exploited by the traffickers and

1:56:081:56:16

there evil and despicable practices.

I welcome the fact the NRM is being

1:56:161:56:22

reformed but I hope that during the

reform process organisations such as

1:56:221:56:27

the human trafficking organisation,

Unicef, and others, listen to. And

1:56:271:56:34

that their advice is heeded. Slavery

touches our lives every day, whether

1:56:341:56:42

we know it or not. No country is

free from this horrific crime and no

1:56:421:56:47

one is safe. Women, men, youngsters,

and worse still, children, are

1:56:471:56:56

vulnerable. Exploitation on any

level is unjustifiable. But when it

1:56:561:57:00

involves a child, it is chillingly

deplorable. Huge concern of mine is

1:57:001:57:08

that within the national referral

mechanism, there is no specialist

1:57:081:57:12

support or accommodation for

trafficked children. I would urge

1:57:121:57:16

the Minister to address this as a

matter of urgency. We passed the

1:57:161:57:21

legislation in two years ago, but it

has been left to go stale. Either

1:57:211:57:25

through a lack of enforcement,

additional legislation or lack of

1:57:251:57:30

desire. Victims of modern slavery

are -- of trafficking are still

1:57:301:57:38

being... There is no clear pathway

or continuity of support and a lack

1:57:381:57:44

of constant training and

coordination of services to protect

1:57:441:57:49

them can hinder through lack of

knowledge and appropriate training

1:57:491:57:51

and funding. We are dealing with the

most vulnerable individuals. This is

1:57:511:57:56

a modern scourge with historical

roots. Too many people are relying

1:57:561:58:00

on us to protect them from danger.

And to offer them support. We must

1:58:001:58:05

make sure the service we offer is

robust, reliable and effective.

1:58:051:58:13

Thank you, Madam and at the

Chairman. I am very grateful to my

1:58:131:58:21

Honourable friends -- maddened

deputy chairman. It is a really

1:58:211:58:26

important debate today. I am

delighted to see Anthony Steen in

1:58:261:58:30

the Chamber today. As the Prime

Minister said, slavery is the

1:58:301:58:36

gravest human rights abuse of our

time and we all share in moral duty

1:58:361:58:41

to stamp it out and that duty really

should transcend party politics. In

1:58:411:58:49

the last two years, since the Prime

Minister brought in the Modern

1:58:491:58:54

Slavery Act, we have come a long

way, but we absolutely recognise we

1:58:541:58:58

are on a journey and there is much

more that we want to do. I have very

1:58:581:59:04

little time this afternoon so I am

going to concentrate my remarks on

1:59:041:59:08

reforms to the NRM because I want to

make some important announcements

1:59:081:59:13

today. But I will get back to

colleagues who have raised very

1:59:131:59:17

important points and I will continue

to work with the APPG and look

1:59:171:59:24

forward to further meetings to

discuss further reforms in more

1:59:241:59:26

detail. Following the meeting of the

Prime Minister's modern slavery task

1:59:261:59:32

force last week, a number of

improvements to the NRM were

1:59:321:59:35

announced. To improve the decision

making progress, a new single expert

1:59:351:59:39

unit will be created in the Home

Office to make decisions about

1:59:391:59:43

whether someone is a victim of

modern slavery. An independent panel

1:59:431:59:48

of experts will be created to review

all negative decisions, adding

1:59:481:59:53

significantly to the scrutiny such

cases currently receive. A new

1:59:531:59:57

judicial system to support the NRM

process will be developed to make it

1:59:572:00:01

easier for those on the front line

to refer for support and enabling

2:00:012:00:05

data to be captured and analysed to

better aid prevention and law

2:00:052:00:11

enforcement -- a new digital system.

To improve support for adults,

2:00:112:00:17

before, during and after the NRM,

there are things we want to do. It

2:00:172:00:22

is paramount the rights of victims

and entitlements are protected and

2:00:222:00:26

this is why the Government will

invoke section 50 of the Modern

2:00:262:00:30

Slavery Act and set out in

regulation the support victims are

2:00:302:00:35

entitled to. We will also launch a

consultation in the preparation of

2:00:352:00:40

statutory guidance under section 48

of the Modern Slavery Act on

2:00:402:00:45

identification and support for

victims of slavery. This regulatory

2:00:452:00:49

framework will ensure victims know

what they are entitled to and those

2:00:492:00:54

working with victims are clear on

their roles and responsibilities. It

2:00:542:00:58

is also vital to victims have access

to support immediately upon their

2:00:582:01:04

rescue out of situations of

exploitation. Government is

2:01:042:01:07

introducing places of safety for the

first three days for adult victims,

2:01:072:01:12

when they are identified by public

authorities. Before they make a

2:01:122:01:16

decision about whether they want to

enter the NRM. During this period,

2:01:162:01:21

potential victims will receive

advice and support to ensure they

2:01:212:01:26

understand their options and what

entering the NRM will mean for them.

2:01:262:01:30

Next, if potential victim does opt

to enter the NRM, we must ensure the

2:01:302:01:37

care they receive is consistent and

meeting minimum standards,

2:01:372:01:40

regardless of where in the country

they are cared for. That is what the

2:01:402:01:43

Government will adopt the Human

Trafficking Foundation's trafficking

2:01:432:01:48

survivor care standards as a minimum

standard for the Victim Support.

2:01:482:01:53

Finally, we know moving on from the

NRM, it can be challenging, a very

2:01:532:02:00

difficult time for some victims, as

they leave the security and

2:02:002:02:03

sanctuary of a safe house and

reintegrate into society in the UK

2:02:032:02:07

or return home. We know in many

cases the current move on support

2:02:072:02:12

period of 14 days is not enough

time. To enable the support to

2:02:122:02:16

happen. So we will extend that

period the 45 days, guaranteeing the

2:02:162:02:22

victims will receive a minimum of 90

days in government funded support.

2:02:222:02:29

For those confirmed as not being a

victim, we will further extend their

2:02:292:02:32

support by a period of a week to

nine days.

2:02:322:02:39

For all of those confirmed victims

who have left the NRM, we will also

2:02:392:02:44

run weekly drop-in centres in

partnership with the Salvation Army,

2:02:442:02:49

so that victims can continue to

receive ongoing support and advice.

2:02:492:02:54

As part of this refocus and

enriching the support that we are

2:02:542:02:58

giving to victims, we want to make

sure that we looked at the victims

2:02:582:03:04

within the asylum system. As members

will know, and has been commented on

2:03:042:03:08

today, a vast number of victims of

slavery are identified by UK visas

2:03:082:03:15

and immigration, when they are in

the process of looking through their

2:03:152:03:19

applications, because they spot

those people may also be victims of

2:03:192:03:22

slavery. It is important that we

ensure consistency between people

2:03:222:03:28

with seating can parable government

support in respect of their

2:03:282:03:32

day-to-day living expenses while

also ensuring the victims of modern

2:03:322:03:37

slavery receive specialist service,

regardless of where they are

2:03:372:03:40

accommodated, to enable them to

begin to recover and rebuild their

2:03:402:03:44

lives. For those victims of modern

slavery, who are in asylum

2:03:442:03:50

accommodation, the specialist

services are provided through

2:03:502:03:52

identified outreach support workers,

to insure victims receive the same

2:03:522:03:58

expert counselling, medical care,

legal aid and other assistance, as

2:03:582:04:01

if they were in NRM safe houses. As

we move towards indentation of

2:04:012:04:12

suspicion -- specific improvements

that I have today announced, we also

2:04:122:04:17

plan to align the arrangements for

covering basic living costs for

2:04:172:04:20

those that are in place for asylum

seekers, while continuing to ensure

2:04:202:04:27

that the specific additional needs

certain people have are catered for.

2:04:272:04:31

And we really want to build on our

work to make sure we are properly

2:04:312:04:36

identifying our victims of modern

slavery. We are also going to be

2:04:362:04:40

consulting on strengthening the

first responder role, including

2:04:402:04:43

looking at the criteria of who is a

responder and making sure they are

2:04:432:04:48

properly trained. Lastly, on our

final objective, we want to ensure

2:04:482:04:52

that the support for child victims

is improved. And we will continue to

2:04:522:04:57

roll out the independent child

trafficking advocates nationally and

2:04:572:05:02

continue to test new and innovative

ways of supporting trafficked

2:05:022:05:07

children, including specialist

accommodation. This includes the 2.2

2:05:072:05:13

million funding granted as part of

the child trafficking protection

2:05:132:05:16

fund, to test what works for

specialist support of children. We

2:05:162:05:19

will also be looking at how best we

can make the NRM decision-making

2:05:192:05:28

processes child friendly as

possible, including how we are

2:05:282:05:32

communicating to children. Madam

Deputy Speaker, we believe this

2:05:322:05:36

package of reform offers a

significant improvement to the NRM

2:05:362:05:39

and will put victims needs in the

centre of this process. We are

2:05:392:05:43

grateful to the work of the Work and

Pensions Select Committee, the

2:05:432:05:49

independent anti-slavery

commissioner, and a number of

2:05:492:05:52

organisations across the sector and

indeed members in this House for

2:05:522:05:55

their work. And I are absolutely

determined to make sure that as we

2:05:552:06:02

deliver the changes that I have

announced today, that I will work

2:06:022:06:05

with those organisations, with

members in this House to ensure that

2:06:052:06:10

we can ensure victims experience

improvement as soon as possible. I

2:06:102:06:18

want no one in this House to be

under any doubt that this government

2:06:182:06:23

is totally dedicated to preventing

this most appalling global trade in

2:06:232:06:28

human misery, ensuring victims of

modern slavery receive the support

2:06:282:06:33

they need and offenders are brought

to justice. Today, we have heard

2:06:332:06:39

great examples of work around the

country, to raise awareness. We have

2:06:392:06:43

seen powerful messages sent out of

this place today, that despite all

2:06:432:06:48

our differences on many other

issues, we are united as a House of

2:06:482:06:54

Commons and committed to ending

modern slavery. We all have a role

2:06:542:06:59

to play in this House. People beyond

this chamber all have a role to

2:06:592:07:04

play. It is clear to me that only by

working together, we can stamp out

2:07:042:07:10

this most horrendous crime against a

shared humanity.

Vernon Coaker to

2:07:102:07:19

wind up.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can

2:07:192:07:22

I start by thanking everyone who has

contributed to what is a massively

2:07:222:07:26

important debate from right across

our country. And I am very grateful

2:07:262:07:31

to everyone for their time in doing

that. Can I also welcome many of the

2:07:312:07:38

statements, the comments the

Minister has just made, and the

2:07:382:07:42

reforms that she has just announced.

I think I have had more impact as a

2:07:422:07:47

co-chair of the all-party group than

I had as policing minister about

2:07:472:07:52

some of the changes! But the serious

point is the changes she has

2:07:522:07:57

announced to the national referral

mechanism, particularly in terms of

2:07:572:08:01

the extension of the time of support

that will be available is a very

2:08:012:08:06

important change. I think the other

changes she has announced in terms

2:08:062:08:09

of aligning the living costs

available to victims, those of the

2:08:092:08:14

people in the asylum system, will

also be extremely important. And

2:08:142:08:20

also with the awareness of first

responders will be another important

2:08:202:08:27

change. There are other things that

we will need to look at and discuss

2:08:272:08:31

which arose in the debate. I just

wanted to thank the Minister for

2:08:312:08:37

that response, and to say to her

that we as an all-party

2:08:372:08:43

parliamentary group will continue to

challenge the Government, not

2:08:432:08:46

because we wish to try and do

anything underhand, but it is only

2:08:462:08:50

by challenge that we will be able to

address what all of us agree is a

2:08:502:08:59

heinous crime. As we speak, there

are still unknown thousands of

2:08:592:09:05

children, women and men in the

sexual or labour exploitation. It is

2:09:052:09:11

2017. It is not 200 years ago when

we had the anti-abolition debate. We

2:09:112:09:15

need to do more. The Minister has

made some welcome comments today and

2:09:152:09:19

this House will be united in doing

all we can to stamp this out.

Thank

2:09:192:09:25

you. The question is that this House

has considered the implementation of

2:09:252:09:31

the Modern Slavery Act 2015. As many

as are of the opinion, say "aye". To

2:09:312:09:34

the contrary, "no". I think the ayes

have it, the ayes have it. We now

2:09:342:09:45

come to the backbench debate on

global LGBT rights.

2:09:452:09:49

Nick Herbert to move.

Thank you,

Madam Deputy Speaker. I'm very

2:09:492:09:55

grateful to the Backbench Business

Committee for agreeing to this

2:09:552:09:58

debate which has been proposed by

members of the all-party parliament

2:09:582:10:02

regrouped on global LGBT rights

which I have the honour to chair.

2:10:022:10:07

Madam Deputy Speaker, this is a tale

of two worlds. In one world, as we

2:10:072:10:14

saw in this House, we have seen the

near completion of rights for LGBT

2:10:142:10:24

people, full recognition in the law,

with some exceptions of course

2:10:242:10:29

throughout the United Kingdom,

culminating four years ago with the

2:10:292:10:35

passing of same-sex marriage

legislation by overwhelming

2:10:352:10:38

majorities in this House and in the

other players. In a 16 year period,

2:10:382:10:45

25 countries around the world have

passed same-sex marriage

2:10:452:10:49

legislation. Others have legislation

recognising civil partnerships.

2:10:492:10:54

Taiwan became the latest this year.

We hope that Australia will follow

2:10:542:10:59

suit soon. If that is the will of

the British people. And it is

2:10:592:11:06

noticeable but now only Japan of the

G-7 countries does not have

2:11:062:11:14

recognition of same-sex marriage.

All the other G-7 countries now do.

2:11:142:11:21

Italy has recognition of civil

unions. I will give way to the

2:11:212:11:25

honourable member.

I thank the

honourable member for giving way and

2:11:252:11:28

I congratulate him on securing this

important debate today. He mentioned

2:11:282:11:32

Australia and I would add my support

to those campaigning for same-sex

2:11:322:11:36

marriage. Australia is a key member

of the Commonwealth and we will be

2:11:362:11:41

holding the meeting here in the UK

and I received this morning a card

2:11:412:11:45

from the Commonwealth

parliamentarians for but it was a

2:11:452:11:47

bit disappointing to not see on this

and mentions specifically of LGBT

2:11:472:11:53

plus rights being discussed there

and would he agree that the

2:11:532:11:56

parliament errands for is a great

opportunity to raise this issue with

2:11:562:12:01

our Commonwealth partners?

I

strongly agree with the honourable

2:12:012:12:03

gentleman. I think it is important,

not least, because of the health

2:12:032:12:07

issues which were also raised as

well as the equality issues on HIV

2:12:072:12:15

aids. There is another world as

well. A world in which 75 countries

2:12:152:12:22

criminalised same-sex activity

between consenting adults. That

2:12:222:12:26

covers 2.9 billion people, 40% of

the world's population live in these

2:12:262:12:31

jurisdictions. Over 400 million

people, therefore, live under laws

2:12:312:12:37

which punish same-sex activity and

actually punish it with the death

2:12:372:12:40

penalty. The particular reason why I

will all-party group was so keen to

2:12:402:12:47

secure this debate now, was because

of what happened last month, during

2:12:472:12:51

the conference recess in a number of

countries, which give rise to grave

2:12:512:12:58

cause for concern about the abuse of

LGBT people. In Azerbaijan, during

2:12:582:13:03

the last two weeks of September,

organised police raids lead to mass

2:13:032:13:09

arrests of received gay and bisexual

men and trans women in the capital

2:13:092:13:15

Baku. The authorities claimed this

was a crackdown on prostitution but

2:13:152:13:21

activists claimed LGBT people were

specifically targeted. While in

2:13:212:13:26

detention, victims report being

subject to beatings, electric shock

2:13:262:13:31

torture, forced medical examinations

and other degrading and ill

2:13:312:13:34

treatment. The majority of detainees

were charged with disobeying police

2:13:342:13:38

orders which was an administrative

offence sentenced to between five

2:13:382:13:42

and 20 days in custody, and the

country's own Ministry of external

2:13:422:13:47

affairs stated 83 people were

detained in principle. The

2:13:472:13:51

Ambassador of the Republic of

Azerbaijan noted that we were

2:13:512:13:55

calling this debate and wrote to me

this week, and I think it is

2:13:552:13:59

important that I quote what he says.

He says: I can reassure you that

2:13:592:14:04

this was not a concerted effort to

crack down on the LGBT community,

2:14:042:14:08

but rather a police action to stop

solicitation of sexual services in

2:14:082:14:13

downtown Baku, following complaints

from local residents. It may be that

2:14:132:14:17

some within the local police force

acted overzealously and exceeded

2:14:172:14:21

them and eight. As soon as the

appropriate authorities were made

2:14:212:14:24

aware, the police operation was

stopped and all those detained were

2:14:242:14:27

released. I would like to reiterate

that the Azerbaijani constitutes the

2:14:272:14:34

Griquas dish and guarantees all

forms of expression and sexual

2:14:342:14:38

activity has been decriminalised

since September 2000.

2:14:382:14:44

But does not deal properly with the

situation because local groups have

2:14:442:14:48

reported since the initial raids,

the authorities continue to

2:14:482:14:52

intimidate and harass people they

perceive to be LGBT, and I think it

2:14:522:14:56

is very important that this House,

and I hope the Government, will send

2:14:562:15:00

a very clear message to the

Azerbaijani government that this

2:15:002:15:06

kind of oppression is unacceptable

in the ayes of the global community.

2:15:062:15:10

This House heard an urgent question

early on this year about the

2:15:102:15:13

terrible situation in Chechnya about

arbitrary arrests, detention and

2:15:132:15:20

torture of LGBT people that

continues to take place as part of a

2:15:202:15:23

wider crackdown on human rights,

despite the protests which have been

2:15:232:15:28

made to the Russian authorities. And

then in Egypt, over 50 people have

2:15:282:15:33

been arrested in response to just

this, in response to the flying

2:15:332:15:40

rainbow flags at a pop concert in

Cairo. Bataclan loan resulted in

2:15:402:15:44

arrests. The victims -- that act

alone resulted in arrests and

2:15:442:15:52

victims are charge would debauchery,

indecent and belonging to a banned

2:15:522:15:57

group. Many have been sentenced.

Victims report being subject to

2:15:572:16:02

beatings, sexual harassment and

forced banal examinations while in

2:16:022:16:06

detention. While same-sex conduct is

not expressively forbidding in

2:16:062:16:14

Egypt, the parliament is

considering, sexuality with a

2:16:142:16:16

proposed punishment of up to 15

years in prison. What is Her

2:16:162:16:20

Majesty's government saying to the

Egyptian authorities, to the

2:16:202:16:24

Government about this terrible abuse

of gay people, for committing what

2:16:242:16:28

we in this country would not regard

as any crime at all but simply the

2:16:282:16:37

freedom of expression of flying a

flag? I was very struck by a message

2:16:372:16:40

that I was sent by a young gay man

living in Egypt, who attended that

2:16:402:16:44

concept and he said: I can hear

those consistent steps coming

2:16:442:16:51

closer. Fear, is it happening? Fear,

are they coming for me? This has

2:16:512:16:57

been the most common stream of

thought in the past week in Cairo.

2:16:572:17:00

The thought of being arrested would

not leave my mind, ever since the

2:17:002:17:04

most recent escalation of the state

on its crackdown on LGBT pill the

2:17:042:17:10

macro people in Egypt. Fear that has

accompanied me for a lifetime as a

2:17:102:17:14

gay man in Egypt. It is

heartbreaking to wake up every day

2:17:142:17:16

for a new chapter of fighting for

your rights to exist, just to be.

2:17:162:17:27

These are not isolated cases. State

action, in turn, licenses

2:17:282:17:34

discrimination at best, violence at

worst, and a climate of fear under

2:17:342:17:39

which LGBT people have to live. In

June 2013, the Russian duma

2:17:392:17:45

unanimously adopted, and President

Putin signed, a nationwide law

2:17:452:17:50

banning distribution of propaganda

for nontraditional sexual relations,

2:17:502:17:54

often the excuse for measures which

discriminate against LGBT people.

2:17:542:17:59

Since the introduction of that law,

14 countries have considered similar

2:17:592:18:04

legislation in Eastern Europe,

Central Asia and Africa. Nigeria,

2:18:042:18:08

same-sex marriage prohibitions act,

criminalises the formation, and

2:18:082:18:15

support of gay clubs, societies and

organisations, with sentences of up

2:18:152:18:19

to ten years in prison. Uganda's

parliament passed a similar

2:18:192:18:24

anti-homosexuality act which would

have credited the promotion of

2:18:242:18:28

homosexuality by individuals and

organisations, incurring penalties

2:18:282:18:31

of up to seven years in prison. That

has been revoked, but in this year,

2:18:312:18:38

Uganda's pride had to be cancelled

as a consequence of the actions of

2:18:382:18:41

the state and the police, who were

determined that that expression

2:18:412:18:46

should not take place. Mr Deputy

Speaker, it is sometimes suggested

2:18:462:18:53

that the UK may be guilty of some

kind of neocolonialism, that we are

2:18:532:18:59

now seeking to impose our views on

countries in the same way that we

2:18:592:19:05

did in the past. And it is true that

40 of the 53 member states in the

2:19:052:19:11

Commonwealth, lies to same-sex

activity using legislation inherited

2:19:112:19:15

from the British Empire. But I would

argue that our history gives us a

2:19:152:19:19

special responsibility to atone for

the measures that we introduced, and

2:19:192:19:26

to act. That is a view shared by the

Prime Minister, who I am delighted

2:19:262:19:30

to say said last week that on the

world stage the government was

2:19:302:19:38

standing up for LGBT rights and

challenging at the highest level

2:19:382:19:41

those governments which allow or

inflict discrimination or abuse. The

2:19:412:19:46

anti-LGBT laws which remain in some

Commonwealth countries are a legacy

2:19:462:19:50

of Britain's colonial past, so the

UK Government has a special

2:19:502:19:53

responsibility to help change hearts

and minds. We will ensure these

2:19:532:19:58

important issues are discussed at

the Commonwealth Heads of Government

2:19:582:20:01

Meeting, which the UK Government is

hosting next April. That is

2:20:012:20:05

immensely welcome and only this week

the Commonwealth equality network of

2:20:052:20:12

activists and NGOs is meeting in

Malta to discuss how to reverse the

2:20:122:20:15

oppression of gay people into many

Commonwealth countries, and that

2:20:152:20:17

stand that the Prime Minister has

taken and this government will take

2:20:172:20:20

up the CHOGM meeting next year is

very important. After all, what many

2:20:202:20:24

of these countries are doing is in

breach of the Commonwealth charter

2:20:242:20:27

itself. Indeed, outside the

Commonwealth, every country has

2:20:272:20:33

signed up to the United Nations

declaration of human rights, rights

2:20:332:20:37

which guarantee liberty, freedom of

expression, freedom from torture and

2:20:372:20:40

oppression. That is why it is so

important that we continue to

2:20:402:20:44

support the United Nations'

institutions, the campaign is that

2:20:442:20:50

they run on, for instance, they're

free and equal campaign, and other

2:20:502:20:54

multinational initiatives, such as

the equal rights coalition, which

2:20:542:20:57

was launched last year with the UK

Government's support and now

2:20:572:21:01

incorporates 29 governments who

cooperate and share information.

2:21:012:21:06

That organisation needs begin

tingling active support of the UK

2:21:062:21:08

Government. I would argue that the

UK Government, which has done a good

2:21:082:21:14

deal in this area, can do much more.

I welcome the Prime Minister's

2:21:142:21:19

commitment to a high-level challenge

that she set out. The all-party

2:21:192:21:25

produced a report last year and made

a number of specific recommendations

2:21:252:21:28

for what the government could do.

First, to adopt a cross departmental

2:21:282:21:34

strategy, to ensure that all parts

of the government are co-ordinated

2:21:342:21:39

and are taking the necessary steps

to take a stance and promote the

2:21:392:21:45

values we think are important in

this country. There are multiple

2:21:452:21:49

actors. There is the involvement of

the apartment for foreign and

2:21:492:21:54

international development, the

Foreign Office, and the Home Office,

2:21:542:21:57

and it is important they are

co-ordinated and I welcome the

2:21:572:22:02

Minister's presence here, as a

minister in a domestic UK department

2:22:022:22:07

but nevertheless recognising his

responsibility, crosscutting, for

2:22:072:22:10

these issues. That coordination is

important. Secondly, perhaps one of

2:22:102:22:15

the most important thing is, the

funding that can be provided for

2:22:152:22:19

LGBT activist groups on the ground.

These are vulnerable, fragile

2:22:192:22:23

groups, run by very brave activists

in these countries, in sub-Saharan

2:22:232:22:27

Africa, in Russia and in the

countries which we have and will be

2:22:272:22:31

discussing. And they need support.

The support they can be given by,

2:22:312:22:36

yes, of course, private individuals

and foundations but also by the

2:22:362:22:40

British government, is immensely

important. Those funding streams

2:22:402:22:45

which can be directed through

British High Commission sent

2:22:452:22:48

embassies is very important those

are maintained. Thirdly, we should

2:22:482:22:54

ensure that safe routes are given to

people fleeing persecution,

2:22:542:23:00

particularly if they are applying

for asylum in countries like Canada

2:23:002:23:04

and other European countries.

I

thank the honourable gentleman

2:23:042:23:17

forgiving way. Does he agree that on

funding it is great to see so many

2:23:172:23:21

corporate organisations supporting

the big celebrations across the UK

2:23:212:23:27

in globally but they need to think

about how they can direct funding

2:23:272:23:29

and support to local groups across

the UK and across the world?

I thank

2:23:292:23:35

the honourable lady for that point

which she has made very effectively.

2:23:352:23:39

I will draw my remarks to a

conclusion because others wish to

2:23:392:23:42

get in. My central point is that

these are terrible abuses of LGBT

2:23:422:23:47

people that we see globally but

change can be affected and we should

2:23:472:23:51

not be despondent about that. In

Uganda, partly because of the

2:23:512:23:56

influence of the World Bank that was

considering granting an important

2:23:562:24:00

loan to Uganda, the President was

prevailed upon not to implement the

2:24:002:24:04

law that the parliament had passed

that would have oppressed gay

2:24:042:24:06

people. In Belize, legal challenge

has resulted in protection for LGBT

2:24:062:24:13

people. In Mozambique, legislation

has affected the same thing. We can

2:24:132:24:18

effect change, and the United

Kingdom, in conclusion, has an

2:24:182:24:22

important role in this respect. We

are the fifth largest economy in the

2:24:222:24:26

world. We have a global reach, very

important historic ties across the

2:24:262:24:31

world, not least through the

Commonwealth. We have one of the

2:24:312:24:35

largest aid budgets in the world,

and the massive opportunity to

2:24:352:24:39

exercise soft power and influence.

In Cairo, the crackdown on gay

2:24:392:24:46

people was, began when they flew the

rainbow flag. And the flying of the

2:24:462:24:51

rainbow flag over our own

Parliament, over our own government

2:24:512:24:56

buildings, sends an important

signal. An attachment to freedom, a

2:24:562:24:59

belief in liberty and equality. We

should not underestimate that taking

2:24:592:25:03

these stances is not trite, not

trivial. It matters. It matters in

2:25:032:25:09

the eyes of the communities and

activists looking for our support in

2:25:092:25:12

other countries. People will be

watching this debate and they want

2:25:122:25:16

to know that this house supports

these communities and that the

2:25:162:25:20

British government supports these

communities. Thousands of activists,

2:25:202:25:24

millions of people. Let freedom ring

for them.

The question is this house

2:25:242:25:30

has considered global LGBT rights.

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I want

2:25:302:25:38

to start by paying tribute to the

honourable member for Aaron Doran

2:25:382:25:42

and the South downs for very

powerful speech. He has been a tall

2:25:422:25:47

order force in terms of championing

this issue and I hope that with

2:25:472:25:52

genuine cross-party co-operation on

this there is absolutely no reason

2:25:522:25:55

why we shouldn't. I also want to pay

tribute to the countries and

2:25:552:25:59

activists in the countries that have

made progress on these issues, but

2:25:592:26:03

also to the very brave activists

that in some cases even lost their

2:26:032:26:07

lives because of standing up for

LGBT rights. I think of David Kato

2:26:072:26:14

in Uganda, who was brutally murdered

in 2011. And we know from the

2:26:142:26:19

reaction of the Ugandan government,

there were newspaper headlines more

2:26:192:26:23

or less calling for people to Lynch

and hunt down homosexual men in the

2:26:232:26:29

streets. There was very much a

climate of fear, so it was

2:26:292:26:34

incredibly brave of him and his

successor to speak up. I know when I

2:26:342:26:41

met his successor, he said the

handful of openly gay people in

2:26:412:26:45

Uganda could almost be counted on

the fingers of two hands, because so

2:26:452:26:49

few people were willing to come

forward. We then had the proposals

2:26:492:26:53

to introduce the death penalty for

people. Quite often this debate is

2:26:532:26:57

couched in terms of, we don't mind

what you do in the privacy of your

2:26:572:27:01

homes, but it is when you promote it

and start talking about these issues

2:27:012:27:04

in front of children. I think that

is a pernicious angle to take

2:27:042:27:09

because it does, in effect, prevent

people leading their lives freely

2:27:092:27:13

and openly and free from fear of

persecution. Another activist in

2:27:132:27:22

Cameroon was murdered, again in

2013. He spoke, just before he was

2:27:222:27:27

murdered, of a climate of hatred and

bigotry in his country which extends

2:27:272:27:31

to high levels in government and

reassures homophobes they can get

2:27:312:27:34

away with these crimes. That was two

weeks before he was tortured and

2:27:342:27:38

murdered. The honourable member has

a ready spoken eloquently about some

2:27:382:27:42

of the issues that have been, the

persecution that had been suffered

2:27:422:27:49

by activists in countries such as

Egypt and Uganda, and the issue

2:27:492:27:54

about the suppression of Pride last

year. I want to talk about what

2:27:542:27:58

leveraged we have, and certainly our

membership of the Commonwealth

2:27:582:28:02

should give us enormous influence. I

spoke at the Commonwealth

2:28:022:28:08

Parliamentary Association conference

when I was shadow minister of human

2:28:082:28:10

rights in the Foreign Office a few

years ago, and there is this tricky

2:28:102:28:13

issue where it did feel slightly

like people from the white

2:28:132:28:18

countries, to put it crudely, were

preaching to the people from the

2:28:182:28:22

African countries. Somebody actually

said to me, you came over to our

2:28:222:28:27

country and told us homosexuality

was wrong, you sent the

2:28:272:28:31

missionaries, you preached the

Bible, you showed us where it said

2:28:312:28:34

these customs and practices, which

were tolerated in Uganda back then,

2:28:342:28:39

and in other countries, you said it

was wrong, and now you are coming

2:28:392:28:42

back to us and telling us, hang on,

you have now got to start accepting

2:28:422:28:46

our norms. The concern that you are

seen as a colonial force in doing

2:28:462:28:52

that is very real. The issue how

this fits into the debate about

2:28:522:28:56

freedom of religion and belief,

something we have had in this house

2:28:562:28:59

before, yes, people should be free

to express religious views and

2:28:592:29:02

beliefs, but that should not come,

they should not be able as a result

2:29:022:29:08

of expressing those views to promote

persecution of homosexuality, or

2:29:082:29:15

bigotry towards people from the LGBT

community. Too often it is used to

2:29:152:29:20

excuse that. The other leveraged we

have is through our trading

2:29:202:29:23

relations with other countries. In

autumn 2013, the Coalition

2:29:232:29:29

Government launched with a great

fanfare its business and human

2:29:292:29:32

rights action plan. The then Foreign

Secretary spoke of how he wanted to

2:29:322:29:39

mesh the two, the business and human

rights should not be separate, it

2:29:392:29:43

should be integral. It was almost an

ethical foreign policy. Since then

2:29:432:29:48

it has been disappointing that the

action plan appears to have been

2:29:482:29:51

shelved. It is not spoken about. The

permanent Secretary to the Foreign

2:29:512:29:56

Office gave evidence to the select

committee two years ago, the foreign

2:29:562:30:01

affairs select committee, and

admitted human rights were no long a

2:30:012:30:04

priority for his department, saying

that far more resources were going

2:30:042:30:07

into pursuing trade deals. They

dropped specific branches of human

2:30:072:30:12

rights activity in favour of some

very vague priorities. Human rights

2:30:122:30:17

groups described his comments as

being as astonishing as they were

2:30:172:30:20

alarming. This was before Brexit.

Now that we are entering a world in

2:30:202:30:26

which we will be pursuing more

vigorously trade deals and new

2:30:262:30:29

business relationships with overseas

countries, I think human rights

2:30:292:30:33

absolutely need to be back at the

heart of those conversations. I have

2:30:332:30:37

asked so many questions of ministers

about what they say when they go to

2:30:372:30:41

countries like Saudi Arabia about

human rights and I get vague answers

2:30:412:30:44

back saying, nothing was off the

table, a range of issues were

2:30:442:30:48

discussed. Clearly, if they were

discussed it was left to a minor

2:30:482:30:52

official to mention it in passing at

a meeting so they could say they had

2:30:522:30:55

ticked the box. It is disappointing

that the business and human rights

2:30:552:30:59

action plan appears to have been

sidelined and is not on the

2:30:592:31:03

international trade Secretary's

radar at all. That is one of the

2:31:032:31:06

things we need to push, that when we

go to countries with dreadful human

2:31:062:31:10

rights records and dreadful records

on LGBT issues in particular, we

2:31:102:31:15

need to be having that conversation

and put it on the table and say it

2:31:152:31:18

is not acceptable. Even to the

extent that people from British

2:31:182:31:23

companies, LGBT employees, going to

work in these countries with

2:31:232:31:26

dreadful human rights records are

not safe either. So I hope this is

2:31:262:31:30

an issue we can take up as a group.

2:31:302:31:36

It is a great honour to follow the

honourable lady and I'd like to

2:31:362:31:41

congratulate my honourable friend

for moving this motion. We have come

2:31:412:31:44

a long way over the years in this

country and indeed in this

2:31:442:31:48

Parliament and indeed myself. I

remember growing up in Swansea and

2:31:482:31:56

wondering whether it was braver of

me to come out as a conservative or

2:31:562:31:59

gay. Anyway, I have tried both and

it doesn't seem to have done me any

2:31:592:32:06

harm. If one looks at the journey we

have made in this Parliament, we

2:32:062:32:11

have more openly gay Members of

Parliament here than in any other

2:32:112:32:15

Parliament in the world, I think

that's a fantastic thing for which

2:32:152:32:19

we ought to be proud and I

congratulate the highest percentage

2:32:192:32:25

of openly gay MPs amongst us. I was

once asked, when will you become

2:32:252:32:37

Speaker of the House of Commons? And

I said, well... And he said, you

2:32:372:32:41

would be the first gay Speaker. And

I said, I did think so, Prime

2:32:412:32:46

Minister. I suspect there have been

a few others since. And it just...

2:32:462:32:54

Well, we know there was at least one

Deputy Speaker who was gay because

2:32:542:32:57

it was in 2010 when I was in the

Speaker's Department when we had a

2:32:572:33:02

fantastic reception when I did come

out as gay and I said to him, the

2:33:022:33:07

only thing more gay than me and the

apartments. And I think for each and

2:33:072:33:13

every one of us that have come out

as gay and those who are not gay but

2:33:132:33:19

speak up for LGBT rights, we know

there are people living in

2:33:192:33:25

persecution and fear about being gay

and it's not about the fulfilment of

2:33:252:33:30

their lives in some cases, it is

that they are fearful for their

2:33:302:33:34

lives. And that is absolutely

appalling. We have heard the number

2:33:342:33:38

of countries where it is actually a

capital offence for being gay and

2:33:382:33:43

we'll read in our newspapers, sadly,

and too many occasions about people

2:33:432:33:46

getting pushed off the top of tall

buildings simply because they are

2:33:462:33:51

gay. I remember a debate talking

about two young people I had read

2:33:512:33:57

about in one Sunday magazine who

were in Iran, they were about 16 and

2:33:572:34:03

17, teenagers, and they were strung

up for being gay and I remember at a

2:34:032:34:11

conference confronting the Iranian

delegation and I said, why is it

2:34:112:34:15

that young gay people are being

executed in Iran and they said,

2:34:152:34:19

well, if it is done in private, then

of course nobody knows but if it is

2:34:192:34:23

public, they will be tortured. They

actually used the watch tortured. I

2:34:232:34:27

was so angry and I said, yes, you

tortured them first and then you

2:34:272:34:31

hang them. For that, I just find it

totally unforgivable. I remember, of

2:34:312:34:39

course, my party has not always been

liberal towards LGBT rights. They

2:34:392:34:47

always had that question they asked

at selection meetings, is there

2:34:472:34:52

anything in your cupboard? I

remember Alan Clark was asked that

2:34:522:34:55

question and he said I could not get

anything more in my cupboard. I

2:34:552:34:59

thought that was rather brave of him

and he still got selected, of

2:34:592:35:02

course. But the question is not

asked any more. Not only have the

2:35:022:35:06

Conservative Party, long way on

these issues, I think it's almost

2:35:062:35:08

compulsory to be gay to get

selected. Not quite. My right

2:35:082:35:16

honourable friend mentioned Taiwan.

I am chairman of the all-party

2:35:162:35:18

Taiwan group and I was therefore it

a couple of months ago as a guest

2:35:182:35:24

and I am proud of what we have done

in Taiwan and we know Australia

2:35:242:35:28

going through the same issues now

and I believe the Chief Executive

2:35:282:35:31

officer of Qantas has just been made

the most influential LGBT person in

2:35:312:35:35

the world. For speaking up rather

briefly because there are a lot of

2:35:352:35:43

CEOs who sadly are afraid, for

whatever reason, to come out as gay.

2:35:432:35:49

And we know it is the same in the

world of sport and in football

2:35:492:35:52

particularly. And I just wish that

more sports men who are gay, like

2:35:522:35:58

Tom Daley, would be as brave as him

to come out. Because that would send

2:35:582:36:02

a massive signal as well. A lot of

these Commonwealth countries, they

2:36:022:36:06

are obsessed with football and if

only more of them would be prepared

2:36:062:36:09

to do that, it would send absolutely

the right signals. I am also proud

2:36:092:36:14

of the fact that within the world of

politics, we have had the former

2:36:142:36:20

Prime Ministers of countries in

Iceland, Belgium, Luxembourg,

2:36:202:36:24

currently Ireland and Serbia, who

have all been gay. And so, I think

2:36:242:36:29

that again send the right signals

but I have to tell the House, I have

2:36:292:36:33

just come back from Russia where we

decided in the human rights

2:36:332:36:37

subcommittee of a conference to

raise at the Geneva conference next

2:36:372:36:41

year the issue of what Parliaments

can do to stop dissemination on

2:36:412:36:49

LGBT+ issues. The chairperson was

from Botswana and we were debating

2:36:492:36:54

this issue and it was wonderful. A

number of countries spoke up on that

2:36:542:37:01

half of it, including MPs from Cuba,

Malaysia, to say, yeah, let's talk

2:37:012:37:05

about this, it is an important

issue. And it got past. But right at

2:37:052:37:10

the last moment, it was defeated in

the full plenary, when most people

2:37:102:37:15

had then started to go home and

countries like Iran, Uganda and

2:37:152:37:20

Morocco were banging the table

saying, this cannot be discussed or

2:37:202:37:25

deleted. That is an appalling thing,

that politicians from these

2:37:252:37:29

countries and a number of others

were banging the table and saying,

2:37:292:37:32

they were not even prepared to

discuss discrimination of LGBT+

2:37:322:37:38

issues in what they're Parliaments

can do. That just shows you how far

2:37:382:37:42

we have got to go. And what was that

incident in the UAE and the other

2:37:422:37:49

ended up being prosecuted for

bumping into somebody and touching

2:37:492:37:51

them on the hip? Come on! This is

the 21st century! Fortunately, he is

2:37:512:38:02

home now but I cannot imagine there

are too many people wanting to go

2:38:022:38:06

there in future. I will give way.

It

is not just LGBT people that might

2:38:062:38:15

not want to go there but others may

think, this is not acceptable, like

2:38:152:38:19

myself.

Extremely grateful to my

honourable friend for saying that.

2:38:192:38:26

It sends a strong signal to the

United Arab Emirates and perhaps

2:38:262:38:31

other countries equally thinking of

that. I want to finish on the WHO

2:38:312:38:36

and that most appalling decision of

there's the other day, what did they

2:38:362:38:39

think they were doing, trying to

make Robert Mugabe a Goodwill

2:38:392:38:43

Ambassador? It is not just on the

health issues but if one looks at

2:38:432:38:46

the way he has treated LGBT+ issues

in his own country, with the stigma

2:38:462:38:51

of being gay meaning that many

people are afraid to even get tested

2:38:512:38:55

and are condemned to death because

they are not given the treatment

2:38:552:38:58

they need. I am delighted they

change their decision at the last,

2:38:582:39:04

well, after three days. Clearly,

they listened to the international

2:39:042:39:07

community but it did send the wrong

signals and I do hope they will

2:39:072:39:11

think again and as far as the pride

flag is concerned, when I asked for

2:39:112:39:14

the flag to be flown from every High

Commission at Embassy, I was told we

2:39:142:39:19

couldn't do it because in many cases

we only have one flagpole and there

2:39:192:39:23

is not enough room for two. We do it

in Whitehall, we double flag their

2:39:232:39:28

figurehead the minister, in summing

up, we'll be able to tell us that in

2:39:282:39:32

future, or Gay Pride week, the gay

pride flag will fly from every

2:39:322:39:36

flagpole in the High Commissions at

embassies throughout the world.

2:39:362:39:42

Thank you, a pleasure to follow my

fellow member of the International

2:39:422:39:45

development committee. Can I welcome

today's debate and thank the package

2:39:452:39:50

Business Committee for current

account? I congratulate the

2:39:502:39:54

honourable gentleman from Aaron

Doran South Downs and in particular

2:39:542:39:58

the key range of NGOs, both based in

the UK and abroad and global ones

2:39:582:40:02

like Amnesty International, for

their assistance? Next year marks

2:40:022:40:08

the anniversary, 30th anniversary of

Section 28, just three decades ago,

2:40:082:40:12

this Parliament, this Chamber,

carried discriminatory legislation

2:40:122:40:16

and I think we can learn something

from the past 30 years because after

2:40:162:40:22

Section 28 was passed, you saw a

renewal of LGBT organisations in

2:40:222:40:27

this country, the formation of the

Stonewall group, lesbian and gay

2:40:272:40:30

organisations in our trade union

movement and Lesbian and Gay

2:40:302:40:34

campaigns within political parties

and the Labour campaign for lesbian

2:40:342:40:38

and gay rights, now known as LGBT

labour, plays a critical role in

2:40:382:40:42

what went on to be Labour's 1997

manifesto. And there are lessons

2:40:422:40:46

from that experience here in the UK.

I believe, for this debate today.

2:40:462:40:53

Because what happened here was that

this place listened to LGBT

2:40:532:40:57

communities themselves. And that, I

believe, needs to be our starting

2:40:572:41:03

point when looking at global LGBT

rights. In the briefing the

2:41:032:41:08

honourable gentleman arranged

earlier, somebody said, change has

2:41:082:41:11

to come from below. And in a world

where there are still 13 countries

2:41:112:41:15

where being gay is punishable by

death, 75 countries where same-sex

2:41:152:41:19

contact remains a criminal offence,

the challenges are enormous. Can I

2:41:192:41:27

welcome the Department for

International Development's policy

2:41:272:41:29

paper on LGBT rights published last

year? In particular, the focus in

2:41:292:41:33

the paper, firstly on the

realisation of human rights

2:41:332:41:39

underpins sustainable development

and secondly, importantly, we need

2:41:392:41:41

to identify engage with the southern

voices that are beginning to emerge

2:41:412:41:47

on LGBT issues. Two years ago, the

world agreed the sustainable

2:41:472:41:52

development goals and the team is,

leave no one behind, inclusion must

2:41:522:42:00

include non-discrimination. We need

the ability to reach all

2:42:002:42:03

communities, including LGBT

communities.

I thank my honourable

2:42:032:42:09

friend for giving way and he's

making a powerful Speech. Will he

2:42:092:42:12

agree with me that it is crucial

when we look at the work, we

2:42:122:42:17

specifically looked at the LGBT+

community in developing countries,

2:42:172:42:27

particularly when American pulling

out of bilateral and multilateral

2:42:272:42:30

eight?

That is an important point

speaks to a broader issue, which is

2:42:302:42:38

about the availability of relatively

small amounts of funding for local

2:42:382:42:42

organisations working on HIV and

aids or a quality issues on the

2:42:422:42:47

ground. This is an international

issue raised across the full breadth

2:42:472:42:52

of their work. I think it has

resonance for today's debate. Can I

2:42:522:43:05

praise the staff in regard of the

work they do on this as well? This

2:43:052:43:09

is a tricky debate. Some people will

say, how come we are giving aid to

2:43:092:43:15

these countries, whose Government

and then acting so appallingly to

2:43:152:43:19

their LGBT communities? Should we

not be cutting a? And I want to

2:43:192:43:23

really urge caution against such an

approach. Cutting support for

2:43:232:43:27

malaria programmes in the poorest

countries of Africa does not help

2:43:272:43:31

LGBT rights. Cutting back support

for school programmes are some of

2:43:312:43:37

the poorest countries of Africa does

not help LGBT rights. What we need

2:43:372:43:40

to do is engage with civil society,

both here and on the ground in the

2:43:402:43:48

countries concerned. That sort of

engagement would be fruitful. Can I

2:43:482:43:52

welcome the appointment by the UN of

an independent expert on sexual

2:43:522:43:59

orientation and identity? He has an

important role to play. His position

2:43:592:44:04

was challenged and there was a vote

last year, 84-77, to allow him to

2:44:042:44:10

continue, 77 countries did not want

him to Taiwan to congratulate our

2:44:102:44:14

Government for the leading role the

UK played in defending his

2:44:142:44:18

appointments, but also the

Government of South Africa and

2:44:182:44:22

several Caribbean countries that

stood out against the pressure to

2:44:222:44:24

try to get rid of this particular

position? Can I contribute to the

2:44:242:44:29

role of the trade unions here and

internationally in the struggle for

2:44:292:44:32

LGBT rights? LGBT rights workers'

rights and next week, Public

2:44:322:44:42

services International education

International will host their fourth

2:44:422:44:44

LGBT Forum in Geneva. The crucial

issues of rights in the workplace,

2:44:442:44:48

violence against people in the

workplace but also trade unions in

2:44:482:44:51

the role more broadly in society in

making the case for equality and

2:44:512:44:56

against discrimination. The

honourable gentleman spoke about

2:44:562:45:00

Chechnya and I think many of us are

deeply concerned about elements

2:45:002:45:03

there in recent months. Last week,

human rights watch highlighted the

2:45:032:45:06

case of one individual who was

confined for 12 days in a dark

2:45:062:45:13

basement by the regime. The example

of Uganda has already been

2:45:132:45:18

described. A recent daily newspaper

front page and you said, exposed,

2:45:182:45:23

Uganda's top promos with photographs

of allegedly gay men. -- top Homos.

2:45:232:45:37

Tragically, this year they were not

allowed to let us think of those

2:45:372:45:40

sisters and brothers in Uganda. I

want to say something today about

2:45:402:45:46

Tanzania because a capital of

concerns that has been raised by

2:45:462:45:50

various organisations, including the

International HIV and aids Alliance

2:45:502:45:53

and the most recent incident was

last week when 13 activists and

2:45:532:45:58

lawyers were arrested in Tanzania

for trying to challenge the ban on

2:45:582:46:02

drop-in centres that serve

communities at risk of HIV. These 13

2:46:022:46:08

were accused of promoting

homosexuality. They're still in

2:46:082:46:13

detention. Can I urge the Minister

to take to his colleagues in the

2:46:132:46:17

Foreign Office the vital importance

of the UK raising the cases of these

2:46:172:46:22

imprisoned people? The honourable

gentleman spoke about Iran. We know

2:46:222:46:26

Iran is a country that still

executes people simply for the crime

2:46:262:46:29

of being LGBT.

2:46:292:46:36

Can I urge the Minister to press

those countries like Iran that do

2:46:362:46:40

that to stop using the death penalty

against LGBT people? Most of the

2:46:402:46:45

examples I have given are from

Russia, Africa and the Middle East

2:46:452:46:48

but I want to say something about

the United States of America.

2:46:482:46:53

Resident Trump's decision to ban

transgender people from the US and

2:46:532:46:58

is an enormous shame and one I hope

we can condemn on a cross-party

2:46:582:47:03

basis. I pay tribute to the chairman

of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in

2:47:032:47:07

America for his positive, measured

response to President Trump's

2:47:072:47:11

actions and I urge our government to

do all that it can to press

2:47:112:47:15

President Trump to think again on

his attempt to ban trans people from

2:47:152:47:19

the Armed Forces. But this is not

the only incident of greater

2:47:192:47:25

homophobia and trans phobia in

American politics and policy.

2:47:252:47:30

Recently, the United States voted

against a UN Human Rights Council

2:47:302:47:34

resolution that simply condemned the

death penalty being used against

2:47:342:47:38

people cos they are LGBT. President

Obama left a positive legacy on LGBT

2:47:382:47:45

rights which, tragically, President

Trump is doing at the moment. That

2:47:452:47:48

leaves a vacuum in terms of global

LGBT rights. I hope the United

2:47:482:47:54

Kingdom, working with like-minded

countries, will play the leadership

2:47:542:47:56

role that we should, to ensure we do

not slip back but instead move

2:47:562:48:01

forward to global LGBT equality.

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I want

2:48:012:48:09

to pay, limits to my right

honourable friend for securing this

2:48:092:48:12

debate and for the leadership he

gives to the all-party group, and

2:48:122:48:15

the fact that he has taken a rather

more voluntary process to actually

2:48:152:48:20

taking itself onto the back benches

to champion the cause is like this,

2:48:202:48:23

to which the quality of his

leadership we all benefit from. My

2:48:232:48:31

rather more compulsory route to this

process means I have the freedom to

2:48:312:48:35

get engaged in these kinds of

issues. But they are incredibly

2:48:352:48:42

important. I want to reflect on why

this issue is so important. What has

2:48:422:48:48

brought us here is the headline

issues of what is happening in

2:48:482:48:52

Azerbaijan, Egypt and Chechnya,

which has been pointed out by

2:48:522:48:57

previous speakers. But you only have

to go online to look for a gay man

2:48:572:49:01

being lynched in Nigeria, to see

horrific videos of mob justice

2:49:012:49:06

there, and we have seen what happens

with Isis's administration of

2:49:062:49:13

justice to gay people being heaved

off tall buildings. I want to

2:49:132:49:17

reflect briefly on some of the

headline issues in Chechnya, because

2:49:172:49:23

some of those cases are truly

appalling. The honourable gentleman

2:49:232:49:28

talked about one man and the

evidence he has given. He was lucky

2:49:282:49:36

enough to survive. There is the

story of a pop star who went back to

2:49:362:49:41

Chechnya, to his sister's wedding,

on the 8th of August. And by all the

2:49:412:49:46

accounts I am able to get hold of,

he was arrested within three hours

2:49:462:49:50

and was dead within ten. This is a

man who has had his picture taken

2:49:502:49:57

with the leader of Chechnya riding

on his popularity. If it can happen

2:49:572:50:03

to him in Chechnya, then we should

draw our own conclusions about just

2:50:032:50:10

how appalling the situation is, and

our expectations of the Russian

2:50:102:50:14

authority addressing this. But it is

these headline atrocities that have

2:50:142:50:22

brought us here today, and the scale

of arrests in Azerbaijan, Egypt and

2:50:222:50:28

the direct state repression. But it

is not just those issues and

2:50:282:50:32

individuals involved in those

instances, who are counted in their

2:50:322:50:35

hundreds. It is actually the number

of people affected by the issues we

2:50:352:50:41

are talking about today go, in terms

of direct oppression, too many

2:50:412:50:46

hundreds of thousands of people in

relationships they don't want to be

2:50:462:50:49

in, of corrective rape, of forced

marriage is. It is millions of

2:50:492:50:57

people. In the case of India, to 100

million people who, because of their

2:50:572:51:02

laws, are simply not able to be

themselves. Of course.

Would my

2:51:022:51:08

honourable friend agree that

although in various countries there

2:51:082:51:12

is a wide range of laws to protect

victims of abuse and discrimination,

2:51:122:51:17

the reality is that many are put off

using the law to protect themselves

2:51:172:51:23

because of high legal costs, high

burden of proof, or the worry about

2:51:232:51:28

implications on future job prospects

or whatever?

Exactly. All of the

2:51:282:51:35

difficulties of living a life if the

society that you live in and the

2:51:352:51:40

laws you live around to not allow

you to be yourself. And the reason,

2:51:402:51:47

I would suggest, and obviously so

many of the honourable and right

2:51:472:51:53

honourable member speaking in this

debate are LGBT themselves, are

2:51:532:51:56

because we know just how important

this freedom is to us. And I know,

2:51:562:52:01

because I only came out when I was

50. And when I was growing up,

2:52:012:52:07

having been born in 1960, into the

United Kingdom that existed in the

2:52:072:52:12

60s and 70s, that what I understood

about myself was that there was

2:52:122:52:15

something wrong with me. And I

wanted to be a soldier and a

2:52:152:52:19

politician. And that was wholly

inconsistent ever with beginning to

2:52:192:52:24

come to terms with myself. There are

awful lot of men of my age who are

2:52:242:52:33

now coming out because they now have

the societal freedom and the

2:52:332:52:36

professional freedom to be to do so.

But the lesson that the British

2:52:362:52:44

experience can give, and the British

story, to the rest of the world, as

2:52:442:52:48

to how we have moved from active

implementation of the Criminal Law

2:52:482:52:56

Amendment Act 50s, with over 1000

men in prison for consent Sewol

2:52:562:53:02

same-sex acts, through to where we

are now, is a story that we should

2:53:022:53:08

be able to tell to others. I want to

reflect on the role we can take as

2:53:082:53:17

parliamentarians. One should not

underestimate the huge challenge our

2:53:172:53:22

parliamentary colleagues, in

societies that are, because of their

2:53:222:53:27

religious beliefs and the influence

of religion in those countries, who

2:53:272:53:31

are in the same state that the

United Kingdom was in the 1950s, in

2:53:312:53:36

terms of their attitudes towards

LGBT people. We should not

2:53:362:53:42

underestimate the effect of our own

personal stories and testimony,

2:53:422:53:48

looking our fellow parliamentarians

in the eye, where we have the

2:53:482:53:52

opportunity to do so, saying, get

them to first base. Your sexuality

2:53:522:53:56

is not something you choose. And I

used those terms in a debate in this

2:53:562:54:02

house before I truly understood

myself. And quite rightly, I was

2:54:022:54:08

heckled, quite properly, by

colleagues on the other benches. Do

2:54:082:54:14

not assume that people understand

that. And once you get to that first

2:54:142:54:19

base, that your sexuality is very

largely innate, if not completely in

2:54:192:54:24

eight, not something that you

choose, then, of course, the public

2:54:242:54:32

policy that ought to come from that

flows from that. So you can say to

2:54:322:54:37

your parliamentary colleagues in

other countries, you are

2:54:372:54:40

representing gay people, whether you

like it or not, and representing

2:54:402:54:43

just as many gay people as I am.

There is no evidence that there is

2:54:432:54:48

any difference in the proportion of

sexuality is between races, parts of

2:54:482:54:55

the world, at all. So they have a

responsibility, and I think our

2:54:552:55:00

responsibility is to help

parliamentary colleagues in other

2:55:002:55:03

countries, who have to lead opinion

to change those societies, by the

2:55:032:55:07

evidence we can give them from our

experience.

Thank you, Mr Deputy

2:55:072:55:14

Speaker. When I received the e-mail

about this debate asking if there

2:55:142:55:18

were any countries I would like

information about ahead of the

2:55:182:55:21

debate, I thought, where do I begin?

I do not wish to talk down progress,

2:55:212:55:27

because we have made great progress,

but the world is still a much

2:55:272:55:31

smaller and more dangerous place for

LGBT people, whether we like it or

2:55:312:55:34

not. On the Foreign Office travel

advice website, a more than 30% of

2:55:342:55:42

the 225 countries listed,

homosexuality, or homosexual acts,

2:55:422:55:45

are illegal. In nearly a quarter

there is a warning of some kind for

2:55:452:55:49

OG BT people travelling to these

countries. While we have the luxury

2:55:492:55:52

of heeding that advice, people

living there have no such luxury.

2:55:522:56:00

The advice that frequently appears

for those countries where being LGBT

2:56:002:56:04

is legal but frowned upon, or not

universally accepted is that you

2:56:042:56:08

should be discreet. Imagine living

your life that way. It is as

2:56:082:56:14

observed as asking someone to be

discreet about their height. The

2:56:142:56:18

advice for countries like Armenia,

where homosexuality is illegal, says

2:56:182:56:22

it is the culture there for same-sex

couples to be often seen holding

2:56:222:56:25

hands and kissing in public. This is

common and not necessarily an

2:56:252:56:30

indicator of sexual orientation. So

it is not the act of the same-sex

2:56:302:56:35

couple holding hands or kissing, but

their sexuality that is the problem.

2:56:352:56:39

It is heterosexual privilege in

action. It is often that intolerance

2:56:392:56:42

under the surface of society that

leads to shocking attacks against

2:56:422:56:46

people that we have seen around the

world. It is not enough to

2:56:462:56:51

decriminalise homosexuality. There

must be laws protecting the rights

2:56:512:56:55

and safety of people, and an effort

to make sure that society catches up

2:56:552:56:59

with those laws by per -- supporting

groups working in communities.

2:56:592:57:04

Unfortunately, that is not the case

for too many LGBT people around the

2:57:042:57:08

world. Mr Deputy Speaker, it is up

to progressive countries like us to

2:57:082:57:14

lead the way in global LGBT rights,

particularly in Commonwealth

2:57:142:57:18

countries. To do so, we must make

sure our own house is in order. It

2:57:182:57:22

is shameful that complaints of

research by the time for inclusive

2:57:222:57:27

education campaign in Scotland has

found that 90% of LGBT young people

2:57:272:57:33

experience homophobia, by phobia and

transfer the in school, with 27%

2:57:332:57:38

having attempted suicide as a result

of bullying. I agree with my

2:57:382:57:43

honourable friend about section 28

but in some ways we have not moved

2:57:432:57:46

on in that regard. There is still a

hangover from that legislation.

2:57:462:57:52

Happy to give away.

He is making a

very powerful speech. Many

2:57:522:57:58

contributors have spoken about the

example we have set, but he is right

2:57:582:58:01

to say we have to make sure our

house is in order. Despite progress

2:58:012:58:06

in Great Britain and the Republic of

Ireland, we still see Northern

2:58:062:58:10

Ireland significantly lagging

behind. He has mentioned trans

2:58:102:58:12

phobia and I are meeting an activist

group in Cardiff this evening, a

2:58:122:58:16

support group. We need to do more on

the issue of trans-community issues.

2:58:162:58:23

I thank my honourable friend for his

point and I will come on to talk

2:58:232:58:28

about LGBT rights elsewhere in the

UK. The campaign has found that

2:58:282:58:32

often teachers do not know what they

are allowed to talk about in schools

2:58:322:58:37

and do not feel adequately trained

to tackle LGBT issues. They seek to

2:58:372:58:42

change that. I welcome the work they

have done and continue to do. Today,

2:58:422:58:46

they managed to secure the support

of the first Catholic priest to back

2:58:462:58:50

the campaign. He joins other faith

leaders in the Scottish Episcopal

2:58:502:58:58

Church and the Church of Scotland as

well as teachers, trade unions,

2:58:582:59:01

charities and politicians from all

parties, in recognising we need

2:59:012:59:05

action for LGBT young people at

school. It is important we have

2:59:052:59:10

these examples from leading figures

in society. Legislation in

2:59:102:59:13

government is also part of a leading

role in changing societal attitudes.

2:59:132:59:19

So I wonder, Mr Deputy Speaker, what

example the Prime Minister set when

2:59:192:59:23

she welcomed into the heart of

government a party hardly famed for

2:59:232:59:27

its support for LGBT rights. When I

got on a plane in Glasgow and landed

2:59:272:59:33

in Belfast, not far from where my

husband was born, despite not having

2:59:332:59:38

left the UK, our marriage is no

longer recognised. Because the DUP,

2:59:382:59:43

ignoring public opinion and blocking

the will of the Northern Ireland

2:59:432:59:47

Assembly, refuses to extend the

rights to people in Northern Ireland

2:59:472:59:51

that are enjoyed by citizens in the

rest of Ireland and the UK, basic

2:59:512:59:54

rights. Members of this house who

find themselves propping up the

2:59:543:00:00

government are on record making

comments such as, I am pretty

3:00:003:00:04

repulsed by gay and lesbian isn't, I

think it is wrong. I think that

3:00:043:00:09

those people harm themselves and

without caring about it, arms

3:00:093:00:12

society. That does not mean to say

that I hate them, but I hate what

3:00:123:00:15

they do.

LGBT people harming society.

3:00:153:00:21

Shocking comments. The Prime

Minister talks about how far we

3:00:213:00:24

still have to go, yet this is the

company she is keeping in

3:00:243:00:27

government.

I am grateful to the

honourable gentleman forgiving way.

3:00:273:00:33

Does he agree that the DUP would do

well to look south to the Republic

3:00:333:00:38

of Ireland, which, despite coming

from the Catholic tradition, as I do

3:00:383:00:42

myself, and was delighted to hear

about the Roman Catholic priest,

3:00:423:00:47

despite coming from the Catholic

tradition, we now have gay marriage

3:00:473:00:51

recognised and a gay Taoiseach. Does

he agree that the DUP would do well

3:00:513:00:54

to follow in the footsteps of their

fellow countrymen?

I thank the

3:00:543:00:59

honourable lady and I agree with

her. They would do well to look to

3:00:593:01:03

Scotland, and the example we are

setting as well. It is a short

3:01:033:01:08

journey from Glasgow to Belfast, but

what a change in rights when you do

3:01:083:01:11

that. £1 billion was the cost of the

agreement that help this government

3:01:113:01:15

together. Why wasn't LGBT equality

for all UK citizens part of that

3:01:153:01:20

deal? What kind of example can we

hope to set for the rest of the

3:01:203:01:25

world when we reward homophobia with

a place in government? Silence and

3:01:253:01:30

inaction is not an option. It is

time for the government to put its

3:01:303:01:33

mouth where it money is.

3:01:333:01:40

Thank you, it is a pleasure to

follow the honourable gentleman for

3:01:403:01:45

Rutherglen and Hamilton West, not

least because it is a part of

3:01:453:01:48

Scotland my family hails from and

indeed I cut my campaigning teeth in

3:01:483:01:54

the Rutherglen constituency. Despite

there being a ward called Tory glen,

3:01:543:01:57

I came for the! -- fourth. My

honourable friend was correct to say

3:01:573:02:12

that we have a two world situation.

We should celebrate the fact there

3:02:123:02:16

are many countries in the world

which are making commendable

3:02:163:02:22

progress on LGBT+ issues. On the

first of this month, Germany,

3:02:223:02:27

same-sex marriage in Germany became

legal following a vote in her

3:02:273:02:31

parliament earlier this year. We

know about the referendum in

3:02:313:02:35

Australia, which I hope will go the

right way. I have relatives over

3:02:353:02:38

there and I will do a spot of

telephone canvassing to make sure

3:02:383:02:45

they vote the right way. And Taiwan

has become the first country in Asia

3:02:453:02:52

where their highest court recognises

same-sex marriage. I hope that will

3:02:523:02:55

play despite all the other tensions

in that part of the world. I hope

3:02:553:03:01

that example will encourage others

to the same route. As many members

3:03:013:03:08

on both sides have detailed, there

are so many shocking examples of

3:03:083:03:13

countries where there is an

incredibly regressive and retrograde

3:03:133:03:19

developments taking place. The point

I want to make this this debate is

3:03:193:03:24

principally this. We have to be

honest with ourselves that there is

3:03:243:03:27

not one simple, easy quick solution

to getting these countries to move

3:03:273:03:32

to a more enlightened place. You

cannot just legislate for change.

3:03:323:03:37

You have to encourage them to lower

culture is to adapt and prejudices

3:03:373:03:40

to be challenged and diminished. As

other members of mentioned, we must

3:03:403:03:49

remind ourselves that this country

has been on a journey. Yes, we have

3:03:493:03:54

probably the most advanced

equalities legislation in the world.

3:03:543:03:59

Yes, this Parliament is one of the

most LGBT+ friendly in the world.

3:03:593:04:04

Yes, we have seen an enormous shift

in British public opinion in a

3:04:043:04:09

relatively short period of time it's

only a couple of decades ago that

3:04:093:04:12

the majority of the country believed

homosexual acts were sinful or

3:04:123:04:16

wrong, that has been reversed and

rightfully so. But prejudice

3:04:163:04:22

remains. I want briefly to reference

two events in recent months which

3:04:223:04:28

confirmed to me that prejudice is

still there. In the summer, I

3:04:283:04:33

recorded a video for the Diana award

back anti-bullying project. The very

3:04:333:04:39

fact we have to do these campaigns

where young people are bullied at

3:04:393:04:46

school, shows us that prejudice

remains. In recent weeks, my new

3:04:463:04:51

partner and I were walking in a

shopping centre holding hands, as I

3:04:513:04:58

should have the right to do. And

someone who clearly knew me shouted

3:04:583:05:04

out a comment that was both racist

and homophobic. That, in Milton

3:05:043:05:09

Keynes, one of the more enlightened

and modern parts of our country.

3:05:093:05:13

That had happened shows there is

prejudice is still in this country.

3:05:133:05:18

We are still on a journey. I will

give way.

I want to reinforce,

3:05:183:05:26

prejudice and bullying in schools

but there are aspects of public

3:05:263:05:29

policy that are still in the wrong

place. I talk about the prescription

3:05:293:05:34

of prep, established with £1 million

worth of advantage if a gay man

3:05:343:05:44

could be prescribed prep, we can't

have a public open policy, we have

3:05:443:05:47

to have a large trial to get this

thing delivered because of the

3:05:473:05:52

attitude that would then surround

the challenge faced by Secretary of

3:05:523:05:56

State for Health in order to do the

right thing around public health.

My

3:05:563:06:01

honourable friend makes an important

point. Another example to back up

3:06:013:06:07

what I said, that we are still on a

journey in this country, even though

3:06:073:06:10

we have legislated in many areas and

we have to understand that other

3:06:103:06:15

countries will also have to take a

long time to get to the point we

3:06:153:06:20

want them to get to, you cannot just

legislate. That's why we have to use

3:06:203:06:24

all the tools at our disposal. And

colleagues on both sides have

3:06:243:06:28

mentioned some of those. Yes, we

have soft power that we can exert

3:06:283:06:34

because of our historical

relationships with many countries

3:06:343:06:36

and I very much hope we use the

meeting coming up to put these

3:06:363:06:43

issues on the agenda. The horrible

case in the UAE of the Scottish

3:06:433:06:46

gentleman who was put on trial and

has now had his charges dropped, I

3:06:463:06:55

very much hope that with the

exertion of diplomacy from this

3:06:553:07:00

country that helped that along the

way. We should make sure the soft

3:07:003:07:07

power we can exert through our

overseas aid budget is used in the

3:07:073:07:09

right way. The honourable gentleman

absolutely cock at night, we need to

3:07:093:07:15

make sure the money is there to help

groups on the ground. -- got that

3:07:153:07:21

right. We cannot take away money for

health projects just because of a

3:07:213:07:31

horrible LGBT+ policy, it should be

the other way round, we should use

3:07:313:07:34

that soft power to encourage them

down the road. As individual

3:07:343:07:40

parliamentarians, in my

constituency, I have a large

3:07:403:07:42

Nigerian population. I do not make

any secrets of my homosexuality when

3:07:423:07:49

I go with me then, I've that simple

act of me being open with them and

3:07:493:07:53

they can judge me however they like,

hopefully they will see I can act as

3:07:533:07:57

a politician and that then filters

through their community. I hope that

3:07:573:08:03

this is something each and every one

of us can do. We need to make more

3:08:033:08:10

use of soft power from sporting and

cultural events, like the upcoming

3:08:103:08:16

Olympic Games in Japan in 2020, I

hope sports men and women can be out

3:08:163:08:24

and proud and shown at their

sexuality makes no difference to our

3:08:243:08:29

sporting ability. And as the

honourable lady mentioned, trade

3:08:293:08:34

will be an enormous lever. I do not

want to get into a Brexit discussion

3:08:343:08:44

but one of the consequences of

leaving the EU is that we can

3:08:443:08:48

develop new trade policies with many

countries in Africa and I hope that

3:08:483:08:54

better interlinking of our

economies, where companies there

3:08:543:09:02

will realise there is a huge pink

pound market in the UK for them to

3:09:023:09:08

sell their products or to in their

country might be inhibited because

3:09:083:09:11

of their LGBT+ policies, I hope that

it by bit, example by example, those

3:09:113:09:19

closer economic ties will help break

down some of the prejudices. It is

3:09:193:09:23

not going to be easy, we should

pretend it is. It is not going to be

3:09:233:09:29

quick but that should not dissuade

us from the task to achieve a world

3:09:293:09:34

where people, whatever their

nationality or religion or

3:09:343:09:37

background can love whomever they

want to.

A pleasure to follow the

3:09:373:09:48

honourable gentleman, can I start by

paying tribute to the security of

3:09:483:09:53

this debate and the hard work and

keeping this important human rights

3:09:533:10:00

issue high on the agenda. Over the

past year and in recent months, we

3:10:003:10:05

have continued to see persistent and

all reports of persecution of the

3:10:053:10:09

LGBT community from Chechnya to

Azerbaijan, Egypt to Tajikistan and

3:10:093:10:15

so many places in between.

Kidnapping, mistreatment, in

3:10:153:10:21

custody, harassment, torture, and a

significant scale. With the leaders

3:10:213:10:24

of these countries so often

appearing to face nothing more than

3:10:243:10:28

a stern talking to. I was going to

mention the murdered gay Chechnya

3:10:283:10:35

and pop star but that has already

been highlighted, where he was

3:10:353:10:41

simply attending his sister's

wedding Chechnya. Homophobia in all

3:10:413:10:47

shapes and forms is absolutely

abhorrent to be state-sponsored

3:10:473:10:50

persecution we still see too often

is disgusting and despicable and far

3:10:503:10:54

from being the strong men they think

they are, its perpetrators are among

3:10:543:10:58

the most cowardly, pathetic and vile

individuals alive. The process of

3:10:583:11:03

turning this around will not be an

easy one and it will take

3:11:033:11:06

co-ordinated international action

rather than isolated Government spot

3:11:063:11:11

the UK Government should be

commended for the times it has shown

3:11:113:11:14

leadership with respect to LGBT

rights. There is so much work ahead.

3:11:143:11:20

It is imperative the Government

persist in calling for the immediate

3:11:203:11:23

release for people when they are

detained on the basis of their

3:11:233:11:26

sexual orientation. Not only for

legislation that allows that to

3:11:263:11:32

happen, but it also has to be

positively for legislation that

3:11:323:11:37

protects against discrimination act

protects human rights. Laws and

3:11:373:11:42

political leaders are just one side

of the coin, it's not just about

3:11:423:11:45

changing the minds of presidents and

prime ministers. For example,

3:11:453:11:49

according to a 2013 survey, 95% of

Egyptians believe homosexuality

3:11:493:11:54

should not be accepted by society.

So, there is an even bigger battle

3:11:543:11:59

to change hearts and minds more

generally. But we can support change

3:11:593:12:04

and members have rightly pointed out

how both Government and business

3:12:043:12:08

must support NGOs protecting LGBT

rights. We must be ambassadors at

3:12:083:12:13

every opportunity, both in actions

abroad and when we hosts. Something

3:12:133:12:19

brought to mind Praet house in

Glasgow in 2014 during the

3:12:193:12:26

Commonwealth Games and a good

example of how close can promote

3:12:263:12:31

participation. 90 events were hosted

and over 6000 people passed through

3:12:313:12:39

the doors from at least 59 countries

and territories, all of whom will

3:12:393:12:44

now know that Glasgow, Scotland and

the UK want to support LGBT rights.

3:12:443:12:49

Even accepting that we hear still

have a journey to go. Before

3:12:493:12:53

concluding, I want to raise the

issue of how we treat people who

3:12:533:12:56

have fled repressive regimes. Those

who seek refugee status here. I

3:12:563:13:04

recall representing a young gay man

in few years ago and back then the

3:13:043:13:10

legal challenge to what was then

offers practice, to refuse

3:13:103:13:15

protection on the basis that a

person could be discreet, had barely

3:13:153:13:19

started by the Supreme Court made

absolutely clear that what is

3:13:193:13:22

protected under the refugee

Convention is not something right to

3:13:223:13:25

live a shadowy and furtive existence

at the right to live freely and

3:13:253:13:29

openly as a gay man or woman. In his

Speech, Lord Rodger put it in a

3:13:293:13:34

rather more colourful way. He said,

to illustrate the point with trivial

3:13:343:13:39

stereotypical examples from British

society, just as the essentials are

3:13:393:13:42

free to enjoy themselves playing

rugby, drinking beer and talking

3:13:423:13:45

about girls with their mates, so

mail essentials are to be free to

3:13:453:13:49

Kylie Minogue concerts, drinking

exotic cocktails and talking about

3:13:493:13:52

boys with a straight female mate. In

other words, gay men are to be as

3:13:523:13:58

free as the street equivalents in

the society content to live their

3:13:583:14:02

lives in a way that is natural to

them as gay men without fear of

3:14:023:14:05

persecution. Awful, awful

stereotypes aside, that was a

3:14:053:14:11

ground-breaking decision. Almost

seven years later, there is no

3:14:113:14:16

concern for the Home Office is not

taking that seriously. Different

3:14:163:14:19

stages of the asylum process, from

detention, two interviews, to

3:14:193:14:24

guidance and removals being

implemented. I very much welcome and

3:14:243:14:27

encourage the Government to continue

and redouble its efforts of tackling

3:14:273:14:32

persecution abroad. I simply ask

also to consider how it treats those

3:14:323:14:37

who have fled that same persecution

here at home.

Thank you for allowing

3:14:373:14:44

me to talk in this Speech this

afternoon. I think my honourable

3:14:443:14:50

friend for securing this important

debate. Madame Deputy Speaker, I am

3:14:503:14:54

proud to sit with members on these

benches who have championed LGBT

3:14:543:14:58

rights. In the 20 manifesto that I

was elected on, it clearly stated

3:14:583:15:03

they were to combat the perpetuation

of violence against people because

3:15:033:15:07

of faith, gender or sexuality. In

action, conservatives have pushed

3:15:073:15:13

for the marriage equality act and

are now considering the gender

3:15:133:15:16

recognition act and we, on these

benches, are committed to the

3:15:163:15:20

principle of equality in law. The UK

has a proud record of LGBT rights,

3:15:203:15:27

as we have heard today, it has been

a journey that today we can stand

3:15:273:15:34

tall on the international stage to

champion how all parts of the

3:15:343:15:38

people's rates and ability to live

their lives first. Elsewhere, as

3:15:383:15:42

they appeared, in Chechnya,

Azerbaijan, we have had a number of

3:15:423:15:46

issues put forward and I find...

I

thank my honourable friend for

3:15:463:15:52

giving way. As vice-chairman the

all-party group on Azerbaijan, I am

3:15:523:15:58

also a gay man and had a meeting

with still more this afternoon and

3:15:583:16:03

assured them the greatest formally

to get assurances that this sort of

3:16:033:16:08

behaviour we saw in September,

towards LGBT people will not be

3:16:083:16:11

repeated.

3:16:113:16:17

I wish him luck in his efforts. To

me, ideologies that suppress,

3:16:173:16:25

torture and kill because of one

human's feelings towards another are

3:16:253:16:29

unacceptable. In the UK, we must

show international leadership.

3:16:293:16:34

International leadership is very

important, and I would refer to the

3:16:343:16:38

United States, which was once a

beacon for all kinds of individual

3:16:383:16:42

rights. I would like to share my

disappointment at the decisions of

3:16:423:16:49

the latest American President to ban

the further recruitment of

3:16:493:16:53

trans-soldiers and deny funding of

certain medical treatment for those

3:16:533:16:56

soldiers. In my view, if someone is

brave enough to fight for their

3:16:563:17:00

country, their country should be

brave enough to fight for them. In

3:17:003:17:05

this country, we have a number of

measures that are helping

3:17:053:17:09

internationally. I welcome the Magna

Carta fund which is being pushed

3:17:093:17:13

through the FCO, and the

government's recent funding of 3

3:17:133:17:17

million to tackle homophobic

bullying in schools in England and

3:17:173:17:19

Wales. The Scottish Government have

a campaign which has been very

3:17:193:17:25

successful and their anti-bullying

service is also welcomed. I look

3:17:253:17:28

forward to a joined up campaign

across the UK to promote LGBT

3:17:283:17:34

rights. We are a leader but we have

to maintain that position of

3:17:343:17:38

leadership. Speaking for my

constituency, the two centres where

3:17:383:17:43

we are able to collect statistics on

sexual orientation aggravated crime

3:17:433:17:48

have shown that in the last year

there were 21 cases of such crimes.

3:17:483:17:57

Madam Deputy Speaker, in my view,

that is 21 cases too many. A couple

3:17:573:18:01

of weeks ago, I had the privilege,

with other Scottish members, to

3:18:013:18:07

speak to a representative from a

campaign who talked about a number

3:18:073:18:13

of individuals, journeys and

challenges dealing with their

3:18:133:18:17

sexuality. One story that has stuck

with me was the story of a young man

3:18:173:18:23

who was so tortured by his own

sexuality and how he could fit in

3:18:233:18:27

with his local community, he had

gone so far as to pick a tree

3:18:273:18:31

outside his house from which to hang

in self, so he could be easily

3:18:313:18:35

collected by his family. I am sure

other members will join me when they

3:18:353:18:43

acknowledge that we have heard so

many tales of people tearing

3:18:433:18:47

themselves apart because of the way

they feel. They ask themselves one

3:18:473:18:52

question. Can I love who I do and

yet still be good? Still be a

3:18:523:18:57

success? Still be able to contribute

to their community? And I think,

3:18:573:19:04

Madam Deputy Speaker, in this house

the answer must be an unequivocal

3:19:043:19:07

yes. I support the campaign that has

been mentioned by honourable members

3:19:073:19:12

earlier, which is promoting

inclusive education to make sure

3:19:123:19:19

LGBT issues are included as part of

the curriculum. This is not to

3:19:193:19:23

promote one path or another, but

just to give young people the

3:19:233:19:27

confidence to walk the path that is

their own. Madam Deputy Speaker, we

3:19:273:19:34

must uphold LGBT rights with the

same ferocity as the rights of any

3:19:343:19:39

of our citizens. We must tackle

discrimination at home and abroad

3:19:393:19:43

and give everyone the confidence to

live their lives and contribute our

3:19:433:19:46

society. Unlike so many issues

debated in this house, equality in

3:19:463:19:55

law is something we can all agree

with and I hope every member in this

3:19:553:19:58

house can commit to it.

Madam Deputy

Speaker, it is a pleasure to follow

3:19:583:20:06

the honourable gentleman. We always

welcome allies in these debates and

3:20:063:20:09

there have been a number of powerful

speeches. It is important to bring

3:20:093:20:20

forward and raise the voices of

those around the world who cannot

3:20:203:20:23

speak for themselves. Gay people are

born and belong to every society in

3:20:233:20:27

the world, all ages, races and

faiths. Doctors, teachers, farmers,

3:20:273:20:32

bankers, soldiers and athletes.

Whether we know it or knowledge it,

3:20:323:20:35

they are our family, friends and

neighbours. Being gay is not a

3:20:353:20:40

Western invention but a human rights

to. Those are the excellent words of

3:20:403:20:44

Hillary Clinton, which I have

returned to on many occasions. As

3:20:443:20:50

someone who took until they were 32

to come to terms with my own

3:20:503:20:53

sexuality, I spent a lot of my early

life hiding from myself, from I

3:20:533:20:58

feelings, from my emotions, from the

truth of who I am and who I love.

3:20:583:21:02

But I never had to hide from the

state, from the police, or from fear

3:21:023:21:07

of being persecuted or killed.

Sadly, that is the experience of

3:21:073:21:12

many LGBT people across the globe,

in places such as Mauritania, Saudi

3:21:123:21:17

Arabia, Iran and Afghanistan. In

those countries coming 2017, being

3:21:173:21:23

LGBT is punishable by death. So it

is vital that we shine a light, as

3:21:233:21:28

we have today, with many powerful

speeches, of those people who are

3:21:283:21:32

being persecuted and cannot speak

for themselves. They gay men in

3:21:323:21:36

Chechnya who are unable to hide, and

have been beaten, tortured or

3:21:363:21:40

killed. The stories that have

emerged have sickened us all. There

3:21:403:21:45

has been cross-party condemnation of

those acts. It is good that

3:21:453:21:50

international pressure has led to

investigations but questions remain

3:21:503:21:53

about President Putin's commitment

to stopping these crimes, as the

3:21:533:21:57

Guardian reported in May that rights

activists worry that Chechen

3:21:573:22:00

authorities will do anything to

obstruct the federal investigation

3:22:003:22:03

into these allegations. The UK

Government must continue to put

3:22:033:22:09

pressure on Russia and any future

trade deals during or after Brexit

3:22:093:22:12

must not be traded against human

rights. I am proud the UK and

3:22:123:22:18

Scotland has come so far. Scotland

is recognised as one of the most

3:22:183:22:22

progressive countries in terms of

LGBT rights, and as the honourable

3:22:223:22:26

gentleman previously referred to, we

are now the gayest party in this

3:22:263:22:30

Parliament. I was proud to bring

those numbers up. And I am also

3:22:303:22:38

proud that our only dirt in

Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon, was one

3:22:383:22:42

of the first leaders to take part in

a Pride event and speak at Glasgow

3:22:423:22:48

Pride earlier this year. It is not a

competition, at the end of the day,

3:22:483:22:54

and it was interesting that now you

have to be gay to become a

3:22:543:22:58

Conservative candidate. That is most

definitely progress. And the

3:22:583:23:04

campaign, time for inclusive

education, we have to pay tribute to

3:23:043:23:08

Jordan daily and Liam Stevenson.

They came to Parliament recently and

3:23:083:23:11

I was glad to co-host an event with

the honourable member, and the

3:23:113:23:19

stories they told us. Jordan's story

is so powerful. They have been

3:23:193:23:29

putting pressure on the Scottish

Government and other governments

3:23:293:23:31

around the world and have been

recognised by the UN as a leading

3:23:313:23:35

light, another example of how we are

leading the world. There are so many

3:23:353:23:40

charities and organisations we can

recognise. Stonewall and the

3:23:403:23:43

kaleidoscope trust are doing work

across the world. A friend of mine

3:23:433:23:47

who was openly gay at secondary

school, which I was too terrified to

3:23:473:23:52

do, told me recently that if it had

not been for the support she had

3:23:523:23:56

from Stonewall, she may not have

survived. They were, quite simply, a

3:23:563:24:01

lifeline that saved her life.

I'm

grateful to my honourable friend.

3:24:013:24:06

Does she agree that part of the

problem that we have such difficulty

3:24:063:24:10

with bullying over LGBTI issues in

schools across the UK is the legacy

3:24:103:24:17

of the section 28 legislation, which

made it very difficult for teachers

3:24:173:24:21

to deal with these issues. Will she

act to the list of people to whom

3:24:213:24:24

she wants to pay tribute the Labour

government in Scotland which with

3:24:243:24:31

the support of the SNP repeal that

legislation, and the politicians and

3:24:313:24:38

activists who fought for so many

years against that pernicious

3:24:383:24:41

legislation. I remember a march in

Lanchester in 1987. So will she paid

3:24:413:24:47

to be to the people who fought that

legislation?

I agree with her and I

3:24:473:24:52

think there is a consensus in the

chamber today and it is important to

3:24:523:24:57

pay tribute to those who came before

us, in the Labour government in

3:24:573:25:01

Scotland, and what the UK Government

is now doing, Justine Greening, the

3:25:013:25:07

minister, the Secretary of State,

doing a lot of work in terms of

3:25:073:25:11

education and LGBT matters as well.

It is important that we speak up and

3:25:113:25:15

work together. We may disagree on

many issues but there will be areas

3:25:153:25:18

of agreement. And there are chinks

of light internationally. We have

3:25:183:25:23

countries like Australia who are

finally catching up and have their

3:25:233:25:27

public survey and pleb as I act. I

should declare an interest as the

3:25:273:25:31

partner of an Australian citizen. It

saddens me that she does not have

3:25:313:25:36

the same rights at home in Australia

as she does here in Scotland and the

3:25:363:25:39

UK. I want to pay to be to the right

honourable member for Rutland, who

3:25:393:25:44

is not in his place but was earlier,

who took part, along with other

3:25:443:25:48

members in this chamber, in a

programme I made with the BBC about

3:25:483:25:52

politicians and their experiences of

coming out. We may not always agree,

3:25:523:25:59

but I have respect for the position

he took recently when he was

3:25:593:26:02

addressing the Chicago Council on

global affairs. He said the UK is

3:26:023:26:06

committed to promoting and

protecting the rights of women and

3:26:063:26:09

girls and LGBT people everywhere and

to build a wider international

3:26:093:26:13

consensus around efforts to advance

equality and justice, including in

3:26:133:26:16

the US, because that is another area

in which the US and the UK

3:26:163:26:20

administration do not see eye to

eye. We have made clear we oppose

3:26:203:26:23

all the cremation, including within

the Armed Forces. The honourable

3:26:233:26:28

member previously made reference to

President Trump's stance on

3:26:283:26:33

transgender people within the army,

which is at horror and. Restoring

3:26:333:26:39

that military ban on transgender

people is another regressive and

3:26:393:26:42

divisive step he has made comments

is good to see the UK Government and

3:26:423:26:46

ministers and Secretary of State

standing up to that. Perhaps

3:26:463:26:50

President Trump could take

inspiration from Jimmy Carter, who

3:26:503:26:54

famously said, America did not

invent human rights. In a very real

3:26:543:26:58

sense, inhuman invented America. The

question by the right honourable

3:26:583:27:03

member for Reigate who asked an

important question earlier, I am

3:27:033:27:07

sure he is aware and will join with

me in congratulating the Scottish

3:27:073:27:11

Government who have made prep free

on the NHS in Scotland. We hope his

3:27:113:27:18

government will come forward with

plans as soon as possible. He asked

3:27:183:27:21

a question of the British Embassy is

about flying the rainbow flag during

3:27:213:27:27

Pride day, an international Day

against homophobia and bi phobia. He

3:27:273:27:32

got a response that said the

promotion and protection of LGBT

3:27:323:27:35

rights is a UK foreign policy

priority, but there is no record

3:27:353:27:39

kept. I am sure he will agree that

it would be appropriate, if we are

3:27:393:27:44

going to push and promote LGBT

rights, that we should be tracking

3:27:443:27:47

the progress of our embassies and

missions around the world. And I am

3:27:473:27:56

sure it is a policy priority for all

of them, but there is progress that

3:27:563:28:02

has been made. There are other

chinks of light. In Taiwan and

3:28:023:28:06

Malta, Malta has become the first

European country to ban conversion

3:28:063:28:09

therapy, something all of us will

find utterly abhorrent. I will say

3:28:093:28:16

in closing that someone at Pride in

London spoke very powerfully before

3:28:163:28:23

the march started about the fact

that in this country and across the

3:28:233:28:28

UK we must continue to have lists

and celebrate our LGBT leaders. We

3:28:283:28:33

must continue to march for those who

can't march, but we must set the

3:28:333:28:38

best possible example to the rest of

the world and make sure that no one

3:28:383:28:42

is persecuted just for loving the

person that they love.

Thank you,

3:28:423:28:49

Madam Deputy Speaker. It is a

pleasure to follow the honourable

3:28:493:28:52

lady. May I thank the right

honourable member for securing this

3:28:523:28:58

important debate. In fact, the

backbench business committee that

3:28:583:29:03

keeps keeping me in this chamber on

a Thursday afternoon, really

3:29:033:29:08

important cross-party debates. And I

know the honourable member is

3:29:083:29:13

working very hard on LGBTI writes,

here at home and abroad. And I think

3:29:133:29:22

parliamentarians from across this

house absolutely, by coming out and

3:29:223:29:26

most importantly speaking out, lead

the way on this. It takes courage. I

3:29:263:29:32

see, as a fellow human, that

courage, and I see, as a fellow

3:29:323:29:36

human, that I must support that

courage. Living in the UK today, we

3:29:363:29:41

have found out that absolutely we

are in a position where we are

3:29:413:29:44

leading the world and we are having

a very positive journey, all with

3:29:443:29:51

friends, families, neighbours,

colleagues openly identifying

3:29:513:29:53

themselves as LGBT community. And

this is being reflected through

3:29:533:29:58

government policy. We have made huge

strides since 2010, and in

3:29:583:30:03

particular under David Cameron,

where we witnessed the introduction

3:30:033:30:06

of marriage equality. We have seen

laws passed and the abolition of

3:30:063:30:14

offences which have affected so many

people. And the strides this summer

3:30:143:30:19

from the Prime Minister in terms of

the consultation forthcoming on the

3:30:193:30:24

gender recognition act. I am

fortunate to be working along with

3:30:243:30:27

one of my constituents and the

transgender community who are

3:30:273:30:32

working hard on these issues. So I

welcome the government's plans and

3:30:323:30:35

look forward to that moving forward.

Furthermore, as a former member of

3:30:353:30:40

the women and equality is select

committee I am delighted that it is

3:30:403:30:44

this Parliament that has done the

first investigating into transgender

3:30:443:30:47

rights. We were right to do that.

650,000 people identifying as

3:30:473:30:54

transgender. We have to tackle this.

It affects families, mental health,

3:30:543:30:59

the NHS in our communities. Our work

is world leading on this. Can I

3:30:593:31:05

thank the Lesbian and gay liaison

team at Hampshire Police for all the

3:31:053:31:09

work they do across our communities?

We all want equality for all. It

3:31:093:31:15

makes us safer, happier and

healthier. And I want to thank those

3:31:153:31:19

openly working in the NHS, the Fire

Services and all our communities. By

3:31:193:31:24

working together, it makes us

stronger, and by working with trans

3:31:243:31:29

people in particular in this area,

it makes our communities stronger.

3:31:293:31:37

Knitted hate crime awareness week

and we all have a responsibility to

3:31:383:31:41

be temperate in actions and

language. Tolerance matters. Hate

3:31:413:31:47

crime can leave an individual,

family or community isolated and

3:31:473:31:51

highlights a broken society. In the

UK, there is a place for hate. Being

3:31:513:31:56

tolerant and understanding makes us

safer together. I congratulate the

3:31:563:31:59

work of the Hampshire Police and

Crime Commissioner and his focus on

3:31:593:32:04

joint work with the Hampshire

Citizens Advice service on reporting

3:32:043:32:09

safe spaces in Citizens Advice

Bureau and the Isle of Wight, who

3:32:093:32:13

have secured a Pride there in 2018.

Next year, we will have a great

3:32:133:32:19

occasion and I have been contacted

by constituents who want a Pride

3:32:193:32:24

event in Eastleigh, they want to see

their town flying the flag. I was

3:32:243:32:28

delighted to hear the member for

Ribble Valley also mentioning this.

3:32:283:32:32

We are here and listen to those

living in fear worldwide because we

3:32:323:32:38

must all remember that being you is

not a crime but targeting youth,

3:32:383:32:46

bullying, threatening you, whoever

you are and where you live, that is

3:32:463:32:49

a crime and you do not have to put

up with it, reported and ask for

3:32:493:32:52

help and I congratulate Hampshire

and Isle of Wight youth Commission,

3:32:523:32:57

who are doing a project on tackling

this. This is a learned behaviour,

3:32:573:33:02

maybe at school or college and it is

simply unacceptable. If we can

3:33:023:33:07

achieve all of this year, we need to

do much more abroad and we have

3:33:073:33:11

heard about the perils if you happen

to be born in Chechnya, Azerbaijan

3:33:113:33:17

or indeed Egypt. And in fact,

hearing that apparently in Chechnya,

3:33:173:33:21

you don't exist if you are LGBTI,

everybody stands against that. We've

3:33:213:33:32

been talking about Australia, where

voting is compulsory. Should the law

3:33:323:33:36

be changed to allow same-sex couples

to marry? A strong Yes vote would be

3:33:363:33:43

a huge victory for LGBTI Australians

and this move forward can the

3:33:433:33:49

Government sent a clear message once

again globally. I welcome what we're

3:33:493:33:53

doing in the UK to make the lives of

people around the world better

3:33:533:34:02

through the FCA and our aid budget.

We need to make sure we continue to

3:34:023:34:07

work with the UN with the free and

equal campaign, which indeed is

3:34:073:34:12

heading towards about 2 billion

people who are interacting through

3:34:123:34:17

the power of social media. We have a

huge ability to change attitudes

3:34:173:34:21

because of that. To summarise, we

have made some huge strides in LGBT

3:34:213:34:27

rights here in the UK. We do set an

example, as parliamentarians, in our

3:34:273:34:33

local communities, in this Chamber

and across the globe. Indeed...

I am

3:34:333:34:39

very grateful to her for giving way

and I will not seek her support

3:34:393:34:44

immediately for the amendment I'm

about to refer to because they

3:34:443:34:46

relate to the EU withdrawal Bill and

she may wish to looked more

3:34:463:34:50

carefully. But can I encourage her

to look at amendments to an 87-290,

3:34:503:34:55

which are supported by the equality

and human rights Commission, Amnesty

3:34:553:35:00

International, which I think of a

relevant to ensuring that was part

3:35:003:35:03

of the process of conversion from EU

multi channel, and human rights

3:35:033:35:06

Commission, Amnesty International,

which I think of a relevant to

3:35:063:35:08

ensuring that was part of the

process of conversion from EU Lottie

3:35:083:35:10

Kendall, that they relate to the EU

withdrawal Bill and she may wish to

3:35:103:35:13

look at them more carefully. But can

I encourage her to look at

3:35:133:35:16

amendments to an 87-290, which are

supported by the equality and human

3:35:163:35:18

rights Commission, Amnesty

International, which I think are

3:35:183:35:20

very relevant to ensuring that as

part of the process of conversion

3:35:203:35:22

from unity candle, and we do

preserve human rights aspects of

3:35:223:35:24

that EU law, which often has been

used in support of LGBT rights. I

3:35:243:35:27

hope she will at least look at

those. Arrow-mac I think the

3:35:273:35:30

honourable gentleman for this

intervention. Brexit to me, is

3:35:303:35:32

Brexit.

It is not going back on

equality. I feel strongly about

3:35:323:35:34

that. I also mention the WHO who

have made such a regrettable

3:35:343:35:36

decision mentioned by the honourable

member for Ribble Valley, I am sure

3:35:363:35:39

UK Treasury made a difference on

that. Yes, the world does watch us

3:35:393:35:45

and indeed the Speech and the Pink

Gewirtz recognised that, from the

3:35:453:35:54

Prime Minister, and I recognised

that she has the chance to support

3:35:543:35:57

the LGBTI community until it but to

my children, not my children's

3:35:573:36:02

children, growing up in a world

where your sexuality nor your gender

3:36:023:36:07

and any kind of method to charge you

at all.

Thank you, Madam Deputy

3:36:073:36:17

Speaker. I would like to thank the

member for Arundel and South Downs

3:36:173:36:21

for securing this debate. It is an

important debate, particularly in

3:36:213:36:25

light of some of the recent reports

from Azerbaijan, Egypt and Crimea. I

3:36:253:36:31

visited Azerbaijan many, many times

and in particular, Baku and Ganja,

3:36:313:36:42

when I was a member of any advisory

Council on youth, doing his work. I

3:36:423:36:48

found the young people there are

very tolerant, progressive, open

3:36:483:36:52

looking and it is often young people

that help create change in our

3:36:523:36:56

society. It is worrying that the

Government 's, these reports of

3:36:563:37:06

Government crackdown, I remember

racing reports of Government

3:37:063:37:08

crackdown on Azerbaijan in 2006 at

one of my first visit there. So, it

3:37:083:37:15

is reassuring to have the comments

from the Ambassador that we need

3:37:153:37:18

more than just words and I'm sure my

honourable friend will follow this

3:37:183:37:26

up but we need more than warm words,

we need concrete action from the

3:37:263:37:30

Azeri Government. You've got also --

Youth are often the part of the

3:37:303:37:48

population who suffer crackdowns.

And that pop concerts, young people

3:37:483:37:57

are disproportionately targeted.

Targeted for flying a flag? I mean,

3:37:573:38:01

really, it beggars belief. So, Madam

Deputy Speaker, we cannot just be

3:38:013:38:07

bystanders. They must be clear that

we have a moral duty to speak out

3:38:073:38:12

for human rights and human rights

abuses. For, Madam Deputy Speaker,

3:38:123:38:19

why is it that in so many countries

there are laws against LGBT people?

3:38:193:38:25

Why, in India, is the penal code

3707A? Why in Jamaica, Section and

3:38:253:38:34

77? It comes from 1861, that state

may give us a clue. And in

3:38:343:38:44

Singapore, the penal code 377, the

exact same number of the penal code

3:38:443:38:48

in India? Why? Because of course

they were laws imposed by British

3:38:483:38:56

colonial rule and British

imperialism. It was the Imperial law

3:38:563:39:02

combined by our imposition of

imperial Christian religion of the

3:39:023:39:05

time, expressed by an imperial

English language that enforced

3:39:053:39:12

homophobia in so many of our

Commonwealth countries that still

3:39:123:39:18

exist today. Often, against the

practices and they will of the local

3:39:183:39:23

historical narrative in those

countries. Madam Deputy Speaker,

3:39:233:39:31

study after study shows that it is

former British colonies that are

3:39:313:39:36

more likely to criminalise

homosexual acts and more likely than

3:39:363:39:41

any other former colonial state or

former state that was always

3:39:413:39:50

independent. 57% of state

criminalising homosexuality are from

3:39:503:39:56

a British colonial background. I

will give way.

You have raised a lot

3:39:563:40:03

of historic points but would you not

agree that now is the opportunity to

3:40:033:40:06

use some of our long-standing

relationships with these countries

3:40:063:40:09

to improve those LGBT rights and

follow our good example?

That is

3:40:093:40:14

exactly what I am coming onto. And I

am coming on to that because what I

3:40:143:40:18

am trying to say is that it is our

duty because we read them once,

3:40:183:40:23

historically, that actually imposed

some of these laws, to now speak up.

3:40:233:40:27

We cannot just wash our hands I

think we're anti-colonialists now,

3:40:273:40:32

we will just let you get on with it.

We have a duty actually to be

3:40:323:40:36

proactive in the response. I think

we will agree on this, 70% of

3:40:363:40:42

Commonwealth countries have some

sort of criminalisation of

3:40:423:40:46

homosexual acts and of course, we

have next year in this country to

3:40:463:40:59

ensure we are leading the way. I can

facts was at the Chogham event in

3:40:593:41:11

Sri Lanka for the youth Forum and

what was very interesting in both

3:41:113:41:16

those respects, the computer had an

interesting and detailed discussion

3:41:163:41:21

around anti-LGBT discrimination. In

the discussion, when it was opened

3:41:213:41:25

in the open ten array, it was touch

and go whether we would pass some of

3:41:253:41:31

the anti-LGBT discrimination closes

we were trying to get forward in the

3:41:313:41:36

declaration. When we asked for it to

go to a secret ballot, it passed

3:41:363:41:42

overwhelmingly. When I asked young

people from Commonwealth countries

3:41:423:41:47

by the change, later on, they said,

because actually, we are afraid of

3:41:473:41:54

our elders, we are afraid of often

more established forces in our

3:41:543:42:00

countries but we, our friends,

colleagues, other young people in

3:42:003:42:03

the country, do not see this as an

issue, we do not see LGBT people as

3:42:033:42:10

a problem, we actually see them as a

equal and should have their human

3:42:103:42:19

rights respected. I think that is

why it is so important that DFID and

3:42:193:42:25

the Foreign Office should continue

to support former Commonwealth and

3:42:253:42:30

other countries around the world in

being able to put forward that

3:42:303:42:33

argument. Because our role is not

just to go into these countries and

3:42:333:42:37

said our old penal code was wrong,

reverse it. Our role is to stand

3:42:373:42:42

shoulder to shoulder with other LGBT

activists, brothers and sisters,

3:42:423:42:47

around the world and to support

them. That is why it is important

3:42:473:42:53

and my honourable friend mentioned

earlier, embassies which have small

3:42:533:42:59

pots of cash to be able to support

groups on the ground, that is why it

3:42:593:43:05

is so important that Ambassador? No

they will get the backing of the FC

3:43:053:43:09

and if they put their neck out on

the line, on the ground to support

3:43:093:43:15

local LGBT groups. I was in Uganda

earlier in the year, speaking to

3:43:153:43:21

some of the LGBT groups there and

they're very thankful of the ongoing

3:43:213:43:25

support that our High Commission

offers them. One thing they do say

3:43:253:43:30

is that when the High Commissioner

changes, sometimes you get to the

3:43:303:43:34

change in wind, a slight different

direction, and that needs to be

3:43:343:43:40

something we are concerned about and

the FCO needs to give clear

3:43:403:43:45

guidelines to all ambassadors and

High Commissioner is to make sure

3:43:453:43:48

they know we have their back. I will

wrap up by saying, we have now an

3:43:483:44:00

opportunity to push at Chogham but

also at the UN to support people on

3:44:003:44:04

the ground and we must not those

opportunities go whilst also

3:44:043:44:08

speaking up against countries that

do breach human rights.

When we're

3:44:083:44:15

talking about the abuses around the

world that we have been, it is best

3:44:153:44:18

to speak with a sense of humility of

the challenges we still face on

3:44:183:44:24

homophobia in our country. In

Brighton and Hove, which I am proud

3:44:243:44:28

to represent as one of the three

MPs, in May last year we sigh savage

3:44:283:44:33

homophobic attack against two young

people, both visitors to the city

3:44:333:44:39

who were savagely attacked in May

last year. We have also seen just

3:44:393:44:44

this week how somebody who

previously coming to this place but

3:44:443:44:47

still ended up as a Member of

Parliament in this place, used a

3:44:473:44:50

type of homophobic language in his

past that was really quite extreme

3:44:503:44:55

and offensive. He ended up as a

Member of Parliament in this

3:44:553:45:00

Parliament, being elected in this

year. But there are three things

3:45:003:45:03

about the response to both of these

cases but I think sets us apart the

3:45:033:45:07

country from those we are talking

about and are aiming to tackle in

3:45:073:45:12

this debate. The first, in the case

of the two men assaulted in

3:45:123:45:17

Brighton, the men who did assault

these two where convicted, arrested

3:45:173:45:22

and are currently serving a

five-year custodial sentence. The

3:45:223:45:27

state was on the victims' side. But

in other countries, from Russia to

3:45:273:45:32

Uganda, the police and judiciary are

often the ones carrying out the

3:45:323:45:36

homophobia in the first place,

whether through violence or use of

3:45:363:45:39

laws which are homophobic. They are

not protecting the citizens they

3:45:393:45:43

should be. Secondly, after the

assaults in Brighton that left those

3:45:433:45:48

men injured, one with both eye

sockets broken and cheekbones

3:45:483:45:53

broken, his nose broken, he said the

following. I hope that what happens

3:45:533:45:58

to me reminds people that

discrimination of any kind is not

3:45:583:46:01

acceptable and we need to challenge

it when it does. Whenever it happens

3:46:013:46:05

whenever we see it. No one should

live their life in clear and I would

3:46:053:46:11

be the first to urge people to be

themselves, to walk out the door

3:46:113:46:15

each day with their heads held high.

I know that these words coming from

3:46:153:46:21

a 22-year-old, who is a survivor of

a victim of hate crime, will be

3:46:213:46:25

inspiring to members across the

House. But this debate concerns

3:46:253:46:28

people who live in countries where

victims cannot hold their heads

3:46:283:46:31

high.

3:46:313:46:36

Because they suffer the fear of

arrest, torture or execution. Their

3:46:363:46:41

own states will not protect them, so

that is why we as a country have too

3:46:413:46:46

deliver some of the change their own

states are incapable of delivering

3:46:463:46:50

themselves. Thirdly, in the recent

incidents of the appalling words

3:46:503:46:56

used by the member for Sheffield

Hallam to describe gay people, it is

3:46:563:47:00

noticeable that both Parliament and

the media were convulsed by the

3:47:003:47:05

rough ocean of his words and the

sentiment behind them, even though

3:47:053:47:08

they were in his distant past. It is

right he has been suspended from the

3:47:083:47:16

Labour Party, but in parliaments in

Tanzania, Chechnya, Russia and to

3:47:163:47:22

many in Africa, offensive homophobic

rhetoric is not challenged but has

3:47:223:47:24

become the norm. Reading the

excellent report on global LGBT

3:47:243:47:32

rights, it makes for sobering

reading. The work put into it by

3:47:323:47:37

parliamentarians and campaigning

organisations was intense, immense,

3:47:373:47:39

but really worth it. I was

particularly struck by the

3:47:393:47:45

legislative assault on same-sex

relationships by the state in Uganda

3:47:453:47:49

and Nigeria. Legislation was

introduced in both countries which

3:47:493:47:54

strengthened the penalties for

same-sex activity, and drastically

3:47:543:47:58

limited the ability of LGBT people

to organise in defence of their

3:47:583:48:00

rights. Nigeria's same-sex marriage

prohibitions act has provisions in

3:48:003:48:07

it that criminalise the formation,

operation and support of gay clubs,

3:48:073:48:11

societies and organisations, with

sentences of up to ten years

3:48:113:48:16

imprisonment. And the curtailment of

the ability of LGBT communities to

3:48:163:48:21

organise themselves, to receive

funds and to provide services to and

3:48:213:48:25

allocate on behalf of LGBT people

goes beyond mere homophobia. It is a

3:48:253:48:30

direct assault on civil Society

itself. In terms of finding ways to

3:48:303:48:34

deliver change in these countries,

it is the erosion of civil society

3:48:343:48:38

that worries me most. In Britain,

the transformation from a country

3:48:383:48:43

with section 28 on statute to one of

equal rights and gay marriage was

3:48:433:48:48

not conceived and led and delivered

solely within the four walls of this

3:48:483:48:52

Parliament. Most of the leadership

came from outside, from within our

3:48:523:48:57

communities and by how remarkable

voluntary and campaigning sectors.

3:48:573:49:01

It was one of the best examples of

civil society and legislators

3:49:013:49:05

working together, almost in

partnership, to deliver positive

3:49:053:49:08

social change. It is notable that in

many of the countries we have talked

3:49:083:49:13

about today, they have suffered and

erosion and curtailment of wider

3:49:133:49:17

civil rights first, and as part of

this programme of eroding the rights

3:49:173:49:20

of gay people. This makes more

people vulnerable to abuse, both

3:49:203:49:27

state-sponsored, and from within the

institutions of the family and

3:49:273:49:30

community that surround them. I urge

ministers to act unrelentingly in

3:49:303:49:35

this area, to support lawyers trying

to challenge abuse by using the

3:49:353:49:39

expertise and resources of the

Department of Justice also, to train

3:49:393:49:46

our ambassadors appropriately in the

issue and to ensure this is a

3:49:463:49:50

priority of our whole government.

And to use our position in every

3:49:503:49:55

multinational and multilateral body,

from the UN to the Commonwealth, to

3:49:553:49:59

the monetary and banking

organisations, too, to make sure

3:49:593:50:03

that any country who chooses to

repress rather than support people

3:50:033:50:06

who want the basic human right to be

gay and to be happy, that Britain is

3:50:063:50:11

always on their side.

I think we have had an excellent

3:50:113:50:18

debate this afternoon and I would

particularly like to pay tribute to

3:50:183:50:23

the honourable member and his All

Party Parliamentary Group on Iran

3:50:233:50:26

LGBT global rights for being

instrumental in securing this

3:50:263:50:28

debate. Madam Deputy Speaker, I

suggest the litmus test of how much

3:50:283:50:36

we care in the UK about global LGBT

rights is how we treat LGBT plus

3:50:363:50:41

people who come to the UK from

countries where they have been

3:50:413:50:45

persecuted, seeking sanctuary.

Sadly, our record on that is not all

3:50:453:50:51

that it might be. Yesterday at Prime

Minister's Questions I raised with

3:50:513:50:56

the Prime Minister guidance recently

put out by the Home Office, put out

3:50:563:50:59

earlier this year, new Home Office

guidance on Afghanistan suggesting

3:50:593:51:05

that gay asylum seekers can return

to Afghanistan if they pretend to be

3:51:053:51:09

straight. This guidance flies in the

face of the Supreme Court decision

3:51:093:51:15

which my honourable friend raised

earlier. I was disappointed that

3:51:153:51:23

when I sought an undertaking from

the Prime Minister that the Home

3:51:233:51:27

Office would stop this practice of

deporting LGBT plus people to

3:51:273:51:30

Afghanistan with the instruction

they pretend to be straight, she was

3:51:303:51:35

not able to give me that undertaking

on the spot. If she wants to go to

3:51:353:51:40

the pink News awards and be lauded

as an advocate of LGBT rights, she

3:51:403:51:44

should know what is going on in her

government, and she did not seem

3:51:443:51:47

too. I am glad the Home Secretary

has approached me and said she will

3:51:473:51:52

look into the issue carefully. There

was also the issue of the fact that

3:51:523:51:57

in this country, one of the few

countries in Europe that detain

3:51:573:52:01

people who have come here as LGBT

asylum seekers. On this very day a

3:52:013:52:09

year ago, Stonewall and the UK

lesbian and Gay immigration group,

3:52:093:52:13

and I would like to pay tribute to

them in assisting me to prepare my

3:52:133:52:18

short speech today, on this very day

a era ago, they produced a report

3:52:183:52:24

called no safe refuge, which

detailed the experiences of asylum

3:52:243:52:28

seekers in detention in this

country, people who have come to

3:52:283:52:32

these countries of the United

Kingdom seeking sanctuary from the

3:52:323:52:35

countries we have been discussing

today, and who have been held in UK

3:52:353:52:39

detention centres. They found that

in those detention centres, people

3:52:393:52:43

have been asked about their past and

have had bad experiences, homophobic

3:52:433:52:48

experiences with staff and other

asylum seekers, and their physical

3:52:483:52:52

and emotional well-being has been

affected in detention, and also

3:52:523:52:55

their access to health and legal

services. The report exposed many

3:52:553:53:03

lapses in standards, with staff

often ill-equipped to deal with LGBT

3:53:033:53:07

people. Many of these people

interviewed recounted shocking

3:53:073:53:11

instances of homophobia at every

level of our system, from guards,

3:53:113:53:18

other detainees, interpreters and

even legal representatives. So we

3:53:183:53:21

really need to address the issue of

how we treat people who come to the

3:53:213:53:26

UK looking for sanctuary, fleeing

persecution in other countries

3:53:263:53:29

because they are LGBT plus. My

office spoke with Paul Delaine this

3:53:293:53:34

morning, the executive director at

UK LG Iggy. He told me that one year

3:53:343:53:40

since the publication of this report

into the treatment of LGBT asylum

3:53:403:53:47

seekers in detention, he is still

awaiting a formal response from the

3:53:473:53:50

government. So if we want to promote

ourselves in the United Kingdom as

3:53:503:53:57

supportive of LGBT plus rights, and

if we want to stand here and

3:53:573:54:00

criticise other countries who are

not, we must, cross-party, address

3:54:003:54:05

the issue of the disgraceful

treatment some LGBT plus asylum

3:54:053:54:11

seekers and refugees raise, receive

in the United Kingdom, and I hope

3:54:113:54:16

the minister responding to the

debate will note what I have said

3:54:163:54:19

and pass it on to the relevant

department. It simply will not do to

3:54:193:54:26

pose as great defenders of LGBTI

plus rights when we treat people who

3:54:263:54:29

come to this country seeking

sanctuary so badly.

Thank you, Madam

3:54:293:54:38

Deputy Speaker. I want to thank the

honourable member for securing this

3:54:383:54:42

important debate. It has been a very

good and important discussion. We

3:54:423:54:50

have heard important and moving

contributions from all sides of the

3:54:503:54:52

house. The member for Bristol East

paid tribute activists around the

3:54:523:55:00

world who have been murdered and

talked about our leveraging our

3:55:003:55:03

country that we have with trade

talks post Brexit. The member for

3:55:033:55:09

Ribble Valley talked about gay

players in football. I do think the

3:55:093:55:13

FA have to change considerably

before we see that happen. And the

3:55:133:55:18

member from Liverpool and West Derby

talked about sustainable development

3:55:183:55:22

goals and paid tribute to trade

unions in their role in LGBT rights.

3:55:223:55:26

And the member for Reigate gave a

moving account of his lived

3:55:263:55:30

experience of coming out. Madam

Deputy Speaker, tragically, of the

3:55:303:55:37

LGBT people killed in the Americas

in 2013-2014, 46% were Transworld

3:55:373:55:44

in. Also, more than 2000 transgender

and gender diverse people were

3:55:443:55:51

murdered in 65 countries between

2008-2015, according to the

3:55:513:55:56

trans-murder monitoring project.

This is tragic. Although, Madam

3:55:563:56:04

Deputy Speaker, Labour has led the

way off and on LGBT plus rights, as

3:56:043:56:08

we speak about the global situation,

as has been said just now, it is

3:56:083:56:13

important that in the UK we get our

own house in order. And people

3:56:133:56:18

fleeing prosecution often end up on

our shores. Therefore, how we treat

3:56:183:56:24

people fleeing violence, persecution

and death is vital and important in

3:56:243:56:28

this battlefield human rights. Madam

Deputy Speaker, as the honourable

3:56:283:56:34

member for Edinburgh South West, I

was disappointed to read the

3:56:343:56:40

Guardian article in particular were

deported gay Afghans were told to

3:56:403:56:44

pretend to be straight. Yesterday

the Prime Minister on the floor of

3:56:443:56:47

the house said that it was her

government that changed the walls on

3:56:473:56:51

asylum seekers who faced persecution

in their home of origin because of

3:56:513:56:54

their identity. -- changed the

rules. This is true, because in June

3:56:543:57:02

2010, the Supreme Court found it was

not lawful for the Home Office to

3:57:023:57:07

apply a reasonably tolerable test to

determining whether an individual

3:57:073:57:10

could avoid the risk of future

persecution by concealing their

3:57:103:57:14

sexual identity in their country of

origin. But Madam Deputy Speaker,

3:57:143:57:19

although the Coalition Government

welcomed the decision, this

3:57:193:57:22

government is still sending out

letters like this one. The Home

3:57:223:57:25

Office sent this to a frightened

LGBT plus person. " You claim to

3:57:253:57:34

have a well founded fear of

persecution in Bangladesh on the

3:57:343:57:37

basis of sexual orientation. I have

considered your claim on the

3:57:373:57:41

Secretary of State. You have not

shown there are substantial grounds

3:57:413:57:45

for believing you face a real risk

of suffering serious harm. It

3:57:453:57:51

technologies that Bangladesh makes

homosexuality unlawful,"

3:57:513:58:00

technologies that Bangladesh makes

homosexuality unlawful,". I am

3:58:003:58:01

ashamed to read this out, but it

ends with "It is considered that you

3:58:013:58:05

do not have such a high profile in

Bangladesh". Madam Deputy Speaker, I

3:58:053:58:11

am stunned by that, shocked, and I

don't know what it means in its

3:58:113:58:17

entirety. But our asylum policy

should not be based on whether

3:58:173:58:21

someone has a high profile, or

whether they have money, or anything

3:58:213:58:24

else but the laws of our country

applied equally, fairly and

3:58:243:58:28

compassionately. Madam Deputy

Speaker, there is an garment

3:58:283:58:34

referred to as the Anne Frank

principle will stop Lord Justice

3:58:343:58:39

Peel stated, it would be no defence

to a claim that Al Frank paced well

3:58:393:58:43

funded fear of persecution in 1942.

To say she was safe in a comfortable

3:58:433:58:50

attic, and she left the attic, a

human activity, could reasonably be

3:58:503:58:54

expected to enjoy her Jewish

identity, would have led to her

3:58:543:58:57

persecution. Refugee status cannot

be denied by expecting a person to

3:58:573:59:03

conceal aspects of identity, or

suppress behaviour the person should

3:59:033:59:06

be allowed to express. This

government action puts them at odds

3:59:063:59:12

with the United Nations guidelines

on refugees, United born free and

3:59:123:59:17

equal report 2012, whose five

pillars are, protect, prevent,

3:59:173:59:22

repeal, prohibit and safeguard.

Despite positive developments in

3:59:223:59:28

most countries, including ours,

there remains a lack of

3:59:283:59:32

comprehensive policies to address

rights violations against LGBT plus

3:59:323:59:36

and intersex people. There is a

concern that cases that have already

3:59:363:59:42

reached the appeal rights exhausted

stage are not that needs to be

3:59:423:59:48

revisited. I hope the Minister will

address this to the house. In

3:59:483:59:54

regards to domestic policies, it is

necessary, I know, to always talk

3:59:543:59:58

about what a Labour government will

do all in LGBT plus rights. And I

3:59:584:00:03

refer to our manifesto at this

point. A Labour government will

4:00:034:00:08

reform the gender recognition act

and equality Act 2010 as an intent

4:00:084:00:11

to ensure they protect trans people

in changing the protected

4:00:114:00:15

characteristics of gender assignment

to gender identity. A Labour

4:00:154:00:19

government will bring the law on

LGBT hate crimes into line with hate

4:00:194:00:22

crimes based on race, faith and

making them aggravated offences. We

4:00:224:00:27

will tackle bullying of LGBT young

people and Labour will ensure that

4:00:274:00:31

all teachers and health and social

workers receive initial and ongoing

4:00:314:00:34

training. The member for Reigate

will be interested that a Labour

4:00:344:00:39

government will ensure that NHS

England completes the trial

4:00:394:00:46

programme provided as quickly as

possible and fully roll out the

4:00:464:00:49

treatment to high-risk groups to

reduce HIV-infected. And Labour will

4:00:494:00:55

appoint a dedicated global

ambassadors for women's rights, LGBT

4:00:554:00:59

plus rights and religious freedoms,

to fight discrimination and promote

4:00:594:01:03

equality globally. Madam Deputy

Speaker, I conclude, three months

4:01:034:01:09

ago the Prime Minister said that her

own party's record on LGBT rights,

4:01:094:01:13

she said this. I act knowledge where

we have been wrong on these issues

4:01:134:01:17

in the past. There will be,

justifiably, scepticism about the

4:01:174:01:21

positions taken and post carts

through the years by the

4:01:214:01:25

Conservative government, party and

me. -- and votes cast. I would like

4:01:254:01:30

to help the Prime Minister and the

government. This has been a

4:01:304:01:34

conciliatory debate today. I would

like to help to ease this

4:01:344:01:38

scepticism. The government now has a

close working relationship with the

4:01:384:01:42

DUP. Will the Minister, when he

rises to his feet, make clear to the

4:01:424:01:48

house that he will help legalise

same-sex marriage in Northern

4:01:484:01:50

Ireland? Madam Deputy Speaker, human

rights are important to all humans.

4:01:504:01:57

Let's lead the way in the UK.

4:01:574:02:04

Thank you very much. Can I start by

congratulating my right honourable

4:02:044:02:08

friend for securing this debate and

a very powerful opening Speech. As

4:02:084:02:15

the chair of the parliamentary

group, he knows how important it is

4:02:154:02:21

that we tackle widespread violence

and discrimination against LGBT

4:02:214:02:27

people around the world and I pay

tribute to him for his energy and

4:02:274:02:31

commitment that he gives to this

cause. This has been an excellent

4:02:314:02:37

debate with many powerful and moving

speeches, including by the member

4:02:374:02:41

for Milton Keynes South and four

Ochil and South Perthshire and the

4:02:414:02:46

honourable member for Livingston and

for Hove. We are marking 50 years

4:02:464:02:55

since the partial decriminalisation

of, sexuality and England and Wales

4:02:554:02:58

and over the past 50 years, this

country has made considerable

4:02:584:03:03

progress, including introducing

same-sex marriage in 2013,

4:03:034:03:07

equalising gay age of consent and

introducing the gender recognition

4:03:074:03:13

act in 2004. The effect of

successive governments efforts in

4:03:134:03:18

recent decades means the UK has one

of the strongest legislative

4:03:184:03:22

frameworks in the world for LGBT

people. Yet, we also know that LGBT

4:03:224:03:28

people still experience

discrimination in their day-to-day

4:03:284:03:31

lives. The Government is committed

to eliminating or prejudice and

4:03:314:03:34

discrimination against LGBT people

in this country wherever its last

4:03:344:03:41

vestiges remain. As has been pointed

out, it begins in school, it is

4:03:414:03:47

important that schools are truly

inclusive for LGBT pupils and the

4:03:474:03:52

Government wants to tackle the

policing but sadly happens all too

4:03:524:03:56

often and this is why we're running

£80 million anti-bullying programme

4:03:564:04:00

to tackle bullying. Young people

should feel safe to be open at

4:04:004:04:08

school, so they can focus on their

studies. We announced in July. I

4:04:084:04:13

give way.

I would seek clarity in

relation to the issue of sex

4:04:134:04:20

education, which the Government and

making compulsory and I welcome

4:04:204:04:24

that. Particularly what he thinks

should be done in terms of LGBT

4:04:244:04:28

rights within that but also within

faith schools, where of course they

4:04:284:04:32

have a different approach to that

issue.

We will be consulting on the

4:04:324:04:39

content of RSC and relationships

education shortly but we didn't want

4:04:394:04:44

to ensure it is LGBT inclusive. We

announced in July that the

4:04:444:04:48

Government wants to consult on the

reform of the gender recognition act

4:04:484:04:53

to ensure we provide the best

support for transgender people. We

4:04:534:04:58

know that many trans people now find

the focus on medical checks in the

4:04:584:05:03

gender recognition process very

intrusive and stigmatising. In July,

4:05:034:05:07

the Government launched a national

LGBT survey to help us understand

4:05:074:05:11

the experiences of LGBT people in

Britain. This survey closed earlier

4:05:114:05:14

this month and the response we

received to the survey was

4:05:144:05:18

unprecedented. With well over

100,000 responses, which makes it

4:05:184:05:24

one of the largest surveys of its

kind in the world and it will be

4:05:244:05:28

hugely important in policy

development on LGBT issues. One of

4:05:284:05:32

the areas of focus for the LGBT

group was on LGBT asylum seekers,

4:05:324:05:41

and issue also raised by another

member. We are focusing on building

4:05:414:05:49

an inclusive society and an

important element of this is

4:05:494:05:53

ensuring Britain is a safe haven for

those who may be experiencing

4:05:534:05:57

persecution and abuse because they

are LGBT. We must make sure that

4:05:574:06:03

LGBT people seeking to escape

extreme discrimination are safe in

4:06:034:06:06

this country whilst their claims are

being processed. That is why in

4:06:064:06:12

September, the Government introduced

the adult at risk concept into

4:06:124:06:15

decision-making on immigration. In

this concept acts on the assumption

4:06:154:06:19

of vulnerable people who may be at

risk of particular harm in detention

4:06:194:06:23

should not be detained. And then

builds on an existing legal

4:06:234:06:27

framework. We have worked closely

with organisations such as

4:06:274:06:31

Stonewall, the UK Lesbian and Gay

immigration group in the

4:06:314:06:43

UK High Commissioner for refugees to

develop guidance and training for

4:06:444:06:46

staff in detention centres. We

continue to liaise with these groups

4:06:464:06:49

to consider what further

improvements can be made. As a world

4:06:494:06:51

leader on LGBT quality, this country

has a moral duty to work to improve

4:06:514:06:54

the lives of LGBT people living in

other countries. It is sadly the

4:06:544:06:58

case that homosexuality is still

illegal in 72 countries and

4:06:584:07:01

punishable by death in eight, this

Government remains committed to

4:07:014:07:08

working with like-minded countries

and with equal rights coalition of

4:07:084:07:11

which the UK is a founding member,

to stand up for LGBT rights

4:07:114:07:14

internationally. At the highest

levels of Government, we are

4:07:144:07:19

challenging those who inflict or

allow discrimination against LGBT

4:07:194:07:23

people and we urge those countries

which continued to criminalise

4:07:234:07:27

same-sex relationships, to take

steps towards decriminalisation and

4:07:274:07:31

we urge all countries to ensure they

have legislation that protects LGBT

4:07:314:07:36

people from all forms of

discrimination. Madame Deputy

4:07:364:07:40

Speaker, my right hon friend, the

member for Aaron Doran South Downs,

4:07:404:07:44

raised the issue of funding of local

LGBT groups internationally. We have

4:07:444:07:49

committed over £1.6 million from the

Magna Carta fund for human rights

4:07:494:07:56

and democracy to project is working

to promote and protect LGBT rights

4:07:564:07:59

and this includes £350,000 for the

UN free and equal campaign. And

4:07:594:08:04

lastly, the UK supported the

establishment of the United

4:08:044:08:09

Nations's first ever independent

expert on sexual orientation and

4:08:094:08:13

gender identity and we vigorously

defended his mandate when it was

4:08:134:08:17

challenged by other states. We truly

regret the resignation of the

4:08:174:08:21

independent expert due to ill-health

and commend the professor for his

4:08:214:08:26

work. It is vital that a successor

be found quickly to continue this

4:08:264:08:31

important work that we shall

continue to support this mandate.

4:08:314:08:36

The member for Ribble Valley and

also for Eastleigh raised the issue

4:08:364:08:42

of rainbow flags. We are proud to

fly the rainbow flag on our

4:08:424:08:46

buildings, both at home and abroad,

for a key events in the LGBT

4:08:464:08:50

calendar, like the gay pride events.

And we work closely to ensure that

4:08:504:08:58

flags were flown around the world

and will continue to do so and I

4:08:584:09:01

hope the flag will be flown in as

many countries as possible. I won't

4:09:014:09:06

give way, this is running out of

time. Turning to the Commonwealth,

4:09:064:09:11

it is currently the case that 36 out

of 52 Commonwealth countries still

4:09:114:09:15

criminalise all sexuality. The UK

Government has a special duty and

4:09:154:09:19

responsibility to help change hearts

and minds and our fellow, most

4:09:194:09:22

countries. Next April, we host the

Commonwealth summit in London and

4:09:224:09:26

Windsor and will be using this

opportunity to make sure we discuss

4:09:264:09:29

the important issue of LGBT equality

in the Commonwealth. Many members

4:09:294:09:34

raised during this debate concerns

about particular countries and the

4:09:344:09:42

tragic difficulties faced by LGBT

people in countries around the

4:09:424:09:45

world. This year, there have been

numerous reports regarding the

4:09:454:09:50

horrific situation in Chechnya for

LGBT people, the UK was amongst the

4:09:504:09:55

first countries to express concern

about the persecution of LGBT people

4:09:554:10:00

in Chechnya and we continue to lobby

the Russian Government to properly

4:10:004:10:05

investigate and to hold perpetrators

to account. On the 13th of April,

4:10:054:10:10

the Foreign Secretary co-signed a

letter to Russian Foreign Minister

4:10:104:10:13

Sergei Lavrov, common in the Russian

Government to investigate and ensure

4:10:134:10:18

the safety of journalists and

activists investigating these

4:10:184:10:21

abuses. Officials at our embassy in

Moscow have also raised concerns

4:10:214:10:26

that a senior level with the Russian

Ministry of foreign affairs. We're

4:10:264:10:29

also concerned about the recent

crackdown on LGBT in Egypt. The

4:10:294:10:35

Egyptian Government is well aware of

our position on LGBT rights and we

4:10:354:10:39

have called on the Government of

Egypt to uphold and protect the

4:10:394:10:43

rights of all minorities in the

country. We are concerned about

4:10:434:10:46

reports that suggest that some LGBT

people detained in Egypt are being

4:10:464:10:52

tortured and we continue to monitor

human rights in Egypt and continue

4:10:524:10:56

to urge the Government to urge the

human rights areas of its own

4:10:564:11:06

constitution. -- to implement the

human rights areas. Also, in

4:11:064:11:16

Azerbaijan, there have been arrests

and detentions, and we are

4:11:164:11:20

monitoring human rights in that

country and we regularly pressed the

4:11:204:11:23

Azeri Government to meet its

international obligations to protect

4:11:234:11:26

the rights of all its citizens,

including those who are LGBT.

4:11:264:11:31

Officials from the Foreign and

Commonwealth Office have raised

4:11:314:11:34

specific reports with the Government

of Azerbaijan and we have received

4:11:344:11:38

assurances that those arrested have

now been released. The honourable

4:11:384:11:45

member for Liverpool West Derby

raised concerns about Tanzania and

4:11:454:11:48

we are again very concerned by

increased anti-homosexual rhetoric

4:11:484:11:54

and deteriorating environment for

LGBT people in Tanzania. Our High

4:11:544:11:59

Commission along with partners and

international LGBT organisations in

4:11:594:12:02

Dar es Salaam are closely monitoring

the situation and is a close friend

4:12:024:12:06

and partner of Tanzania, we have

conversations about this issue and

4:12:064:12:10

many other human rights issues with

the Government. My honourable

4:12:104:12:14

friend, the member for Reigate,

raised the issue of prep. NHS

4:12:144:12:21

England and Public Health England

announced last year that up to £10

4:12:214:12:26

million is to be made available to

run a three-year trial for prep to

4:12:264:12:31

answer outstanding questions about

future access and implementation of

4:12:314:12:35

this drug. The trial is aiming to

establish the most effective way to

4:12:354:12:39

distribute the drug to have the

greatest impact on reducing the

4:12:394:12:42

spread of HIV. The honourable member

for Bristol East raised the issue of

4:12:424:12:51

the business of human rights action

plan. Last year, the Government

4:12:514:12:55

published guidance for businesses to

implement the UN guiding principles

4:12:554:13:00

on business and human rights and the

Saky reaffirms the UK's commitment

4:13:004:13:03

to the implementation of the UN's

guiding principles. This has been a

4:13:034:13:11

hugely important debates, sending

the united message from this

4:13:114:13:17

Parliament to all those countries

that criminalise being LGBT to take

4:13:174:13:21

steps towards decriminalisation, to

be criminalise something that is

4:13:214:13:26

simply a part of an individual

nature.

During the course of this

4:13:264:13:38

debate, I learned that 30 lawyers

and activists in Tanzania had just

4:13:384:13:42

been released on bail, they had been

arrested last week and charged with

4:13:424:13:48

the so-called crime promoting

sexuality. This crime does not exist

4:13:484:13:55

under Tanzania's penal code. They

were released on bail and then

4:13:554:14:00

rearrested. Their so-called crime

was simply to challenge the

4:14:004:14:06

country's circuitry than on HIV care

centres and during the course of

4:14:064:14:13

their detention in Dar es Salaam,

the police supplied to the courts in

4:14:134:14:18

Tanzania to undertake on these

individuals forced medical

4:14:184:14:25

examinations to establish whether or

not they were homosexual.

4:14:254:14:31

Fortunately, the courts denied that

application. If ever there were a

4:14:314:14:35

more sober reminder of what is

happening around the world in

4:14:354:14:41

countries which as my right

honourable friend, the minister, has

4:14:414:14:45

just said, are friends of our own

country, which are members of the

4:14:454:14:50

Commonwealth, countries that have

signed up to UN and Commonwealth

4:14:504:14:53

charter commitments, it was this

example. It has been right across

4:14:534:15:00

this house, on an entirely

nonpartisan basis, honourable

4:15:004:15:03

members from all have spoken out

against these terrible abuses of

4:15:034:15:10

LGBT rights, which are abuses of

human rights. And we have sent a

4:15:104:15:16

signal today and I'm grateful that

both Her Majesty's opposition and

4:15:164:15:20

Government have reinforced that

signal, that these abuses of LGBT

4:15:204:15:25

rights cannot be tolerated and that

we expect and look upon the

4:15:254:15:30

authorities in these countries to

uphold these universal commitments,

4:15:304:15:35

to which every country has signed

up. We should not be fearful of

4:15:354:15:41

taking a stance on these issues

because activists in these countries

4:15:414:15:46

are looking to us, their friends and

allies, to make such a stance and I

4:15:464:15:53

am grateful to honourable members on

all sites for doing so today. The

4:15:534:16:00

question is that this house has

considered a global LGBT rights, as

4:16:004:16:10

many are of the opinion, say I. The

ayes have it.

4:16:104:16:20

I think we can take motions two and

three on privilege and standards

4:16:204:16:24

together.

I beg to move.

The

question is as on the order paper. I

4:16:244:16:35

think the ayes have it.

The question is that a German. That

4:16:354:16:52

this House do now adjourn.

The

notice advising that you were the

4:16:524:17:03

Minister answering the last debate

of the week was met with a groan. Is

4:17:034:17:07

the Minister aware that the M25

junction ten is where the A3 and the

4:17:074:17:14

M25 link? The traffic is such that

it is probably the biggest

4:17:144:17:20

interchange in the UK, with the

highest accident record, I believe,

4:17:204:17:25

and experiences frequent disruption

and jams in both directions on the

4:17:254:17:29

A3 as well as contributing to M25

jams. Delays for miles around. As

4:17:294:17:36

the main link between the south-east

and London the demand on the A3 and

4:17:364:17:41

a junction is growing and will

continue to do so. On the western

4:17:414:17:44

border of the A3, just south of

junction ten is the world-famous

4:17:444:17:49

world or to cult in society gardens.

To those without a compass, it is on

4:17:494:17:54

the left of the A3, just before the

M25, if you are driving towards

4:17:544:17:59

London. Access, at the moment, is

off the A3, directly, or if you are

4:17:594:18:06

driving towards London, or coming in

the opposite direction, near the

4:18:064:18:11

roundabout. There is a slip road to

the entrance and a similar slip road

4:18:114:18:17

onto the Arfon three on exciting. It

is adequate but not appreciably

4:18:174:18:22

signposted. I am sure the Minister

is -- aware of the importance of the

4:18:224:18:27

gardens. It is the UK's centre of

excellence for horticultural

4:18:274:18:32

science, research and education. And

I am not just meaning the

4:18:324:18:38

world-class, high standard

horticultural educational research

4:18:384:18:40

it undertakes, but also the annual

influx of about 18,000

4:18:404:18:44

schoolchildren from over 450

schools. And then you add the 1.2

4:18:444:18:50

million people of the general public

who flood in annually. I suggest to

4:18:504:18:54

the Minister if he is ever going to

visit, visit and park your car early

4:18:544:19:00

because you will walk for half a

mile to get in. That is the demand.

4:19:004:19:05

Hence, I must declare myself an

interest, as most of my family

4:19:054:19:09

belong to the RHS and visit

regularly. The miniature insects are

4:19:094:19:16

absolutely fascinated, as they tear

around the garden and try not to

4:19:164:19:22

fall into the pools and ponds. 240

acres of historic and horticultural

4:19:224:19:28

delight. It employs 400 staff and

has 250 volunteers. They are a third

4:19:284:19:34

of the way through a £650 million

investment development programme.

4:19:344:19:41

£650 million for a charity in this

country is some programme. This will

4:19:414:19:46

lift the numbers of full-time jobs

by 60 and they anticipate visitor

4:19:464:19:49

numbers will lift to not far short

of 1.5 million annually. This will

4:19:494:19:55

bring became elated benefit impact

locally over ten years to about 1

4:19:554:19:58

billion. Because of its location,

there is no realistic public

4:19:584:20:04

transport and also, realistically,

no prospect of it. As one drives or

4:20:044:20:11

calls along the A3, one would be

forgiven for not knowing the gardens

4:20:114:20:16

are next to it. The gardens and

ancient woodlands are buffered by a

4:20:164:20:21

well planted shield with over 500

mature trees, many, if not most,

4:20:214:20:26

over 100 years old. I accept major

improvements to the junction are

4:20:264:20:32

necessary. It is glaringly obvious.

The RHS except this and highways

4:20:324:20:37

England engineers have been working

on plans to sort the problem out.

4:20:374:20:42

The most likely plan they appear to

favour, however, hits Wisley Gardens

4:20:424:20:46

hard and dramatically. The buffer

with those trees will go. The

4:20:464:20:52

entrances and exits will be

complicated and they will add about

4:20:524:20:56

7.5 miles to the round-trip per

visitor car. This complicated

4:20:564:21:04

entrance, we believe, will be a

deterrence for visitors. Just as the

4:21:044:21:09

investment is expected to increase,

just as it is going to help fund the

4:21:094:21:13

attraction, the deterrent will come

in. The need for direct access and

4:21:134:21:18

exit from the A3 is obvious. The

effect on local traffic through

4:21:184:21:24

villages and surrounding countryside

will be significant if this perhaps

4:21:244:21:26

preferred plan goes ahead. Indeed,

there has been considerable

4:21:264:21:37

discussion with highways England.

They are still meeting the RHS, and

4:21:374:21:43

it is very helpful. Indeed, highways

England have stated to me they are

4:21:434:21:48

not against the required south

facing slip roads, which would make

4:21:484:21:56

much of the problems. However, and

this is where the crunch comes for

4:21:564:22:00

the Minister, apparently this would

be outside the perimeter is, the

4:22:004:22:05

geographic perimeters of the scheme

currently being looked at, namely

4:22:054:22:11

the A3 road improvement scheme. The

new funding would be required, but

4:22:114:22:15

compared to the size of the previous

programme, not great. It needs a

4:22:154:22:22

business case. It would need further

consultation with local authorities

4:22:224:22:26

and perhaps landowners. It is a

further problem, but it is a

4:22:264:22:31

solution, and a solution that is

going with the grain, rather than

4:22:314:22:35

against it. A relatively small

delayed to produce a sensible scheme

4:22:354:22:39

is better than what I see as

blundering on to look back in time

4:22:394:22:43

and ask, why did we not do it right

when we had a chance? I was going to

4:22:434:22:49

ask the Minister if I could bring a

couple of RHS representatives to his

4:22:494:22:53

office. I have changed my mind.

Better than that, I am inviting him

4:22:534:22:58

to come to Wisley to actually see

it. If necessary I will personally

4:22:584:23:03

drive him from his office. Better

still, as a minister in the

4:23:034:23:07

Department for Transport, from the

local station. We will arrange free

4:23:074:23:11

entry, a short tour, a photo

opportunity, cup of coffee. RHS

4:23:114:23:18

barn. Actually, because it is an old

charity of long-standing, we were

4:23:184:23:23

actually get some Victoria cream

sponge slice for him. A visit,

4:23:234:23:28

seriously, is only -- the only way

to get the problem in perspective.

4:23:284:23:34

Looking at maps is not the same as

looking at the trees. I want us to

4:23:344:23:39

get it right. Right for generations

to come over the next decades,

4:23:394:23:43

running into the next century,

bearing in mind that Wisley Gardens

4:23:434:23:46

has been going for essential you. I

would hate my honourable friend to

4:23:464:23:51

be the one who was named by Wisley

visitors and asked, why didn't he

4:23:514:23:56

get it right when he had a chance?

Thank you very much indeed, Madam

4:23:564:24:05

Deputy Speaker. I congratulate my

honourable friend on securing this

4:24:054:24:09

important debate about highways

England's planned improvements to

4:24:094:24:13

the M25 junction ten near Wisley.

This scheme has attracted a great

4:24:134:24:19

deal of public and parliamentary

interest and highways England have

4:24:194:24:22

been listening carefully to all that

has been said, including I am sure

4:24:224:24:27

very eloquently tonight by the

honourable gentleman. I am delighted

4:24:274:24:32

that this government is delivering

what is overall the most ambitious

4:24:324:24:36

modernisation of England's motorways

and major roads in a generation.

4:24:364:24:42

Good transport links are critical to

our economy and its growth. That is

4:24:424:24:46

why this government is investing in

transport infrastructure up and down

4:24:464:24:49

the country. We are spending £15

billion, Madam Deputy Speaker, on

4:24:494:24:57

schemes between 2015-2021, across

England, that will connect people

4:24:574:25:03

and businesses together, creating

the right conditions for economic

4:25:034:25:06

prosperity and growth. And, as the

house will be aware, planning is

4:25:064:25:12

already well under way for the

second road investment strategy.

4:25:124:25:16

These great programmes of investment

must be delivered in a way that

4:25:164:25:20

respects our environment, keeps the

network of roads free-flowing, and

4:25:204:25:24

makes our roads as safe as possible

for those that travel and work on

4:25:244:25:28

them. These are all considerations

that highways England are taking

4:25:284:25:31

into account in the development of

this present scheme. In December

4:25:314:25:39

2014, the government launched the

first road investment strategy,

4:25:394:25:42

which outlined the scope of that

investment up until the year 2021.

4:25:424:25:48

The M25 junction Number Ten scheme

near Wisley is a critical component

4:25:484:25:54

of that national programme of

investment, which highways England

4:25:544:25:58

plans show will start in 2020-20

one. This junction, as my honourable

4:25:584:26:04

friend will know, is one of the

busiest road into changes in the

4:26:044:26:09

country and has one of the highest

accident rates anywhere on the

4:26:094:26:13

strategic road network. Our

investment here is, therefore,

4:26:134:26:19

important by any measure, and we are

committed to delivering a scheme

4:26:194:26:23

that will deliver a lasting benefit

for the region. I want to reassure

4:26:234:26:29

the house that I, personally,

understand the importance of RHS

4:26:294:26:33

Wisley. The land around the junction

and in the vicinity is of a very

4:26:334:26:37

high environmental designation,

including special protection areas,

4:26:374:26:43

sites of special scientific

interest, common land, ancient

4:26:434:26:46

woodland, scheduled monuments,

registered parks and gardens. It is

4:26:464:26:51

home to unique habitats and, of

course, RHS Wisley is

4:26:514:26:56

internationally recognised, as my

honourable friend said, as a

4:26:564:26:59

world-class visitor attraction which

brings 1.2 million visitors every

4:26:594:27:05

year to what is a renowned centre of

horticultural excellence. The

4:27:054:27:11

investments being made at RHS Wisley

are exciting and ambitious, and I

4:27:114:27:16

look forward to seeing the

improvements that will be delivered

4:27:164:27:18

in the coming years. These

investments and that institution is

4:27:184:27:24

something the government wishes to

support as a great national asset.

4:27:244:27:29

And the plan is being proposed by

highways England will, I am sure, do

4:27:294:27:33

exactly that, as well as improving

safety and congestion. Madam Deputy

4:27:334:27:39

Speaker, I have already alluded to

the levels of congestion on this

4:27:394:27:42

road. On a daily basis it causes

significant delays to those

4:27:424:27:47

travelling on both the A3 and the

M25. The objectives of this scheme

4:27:474:27:54

to relieve congestion, provide more

reliable journey times and flow, and

4:27:544:27:58

improve safety for everyone at a key

junction where the M25 meets the A3,

4:27:584:28:05

not omitting walkers and cyclists

who may wish to use the interchange.

4:28:054:28:11

Highways England proposals to

improve the M25 junction ten and A3

4:28:114:28:16

interchange will also deliver

much-needed additional capacity

4:28:164:28:18

through widening that is required as

part of the scheme. With this

4:28:184:28:25

scheme, highways England has

committed to delivering improved

4:28:254:28:28

access for RHS Wisley itself,

improvements that will increase the

4:28:284:28:32

capacity of the road leading to the

gardens and make access safer for

4:28:324:28:37

everyone who visits and everyone who

works at RHS Wisley itself. Madam

4:28:374:28:43

Deputy Speaker, highways England ran

a non-statutory consultation on the

4:28:434:28:47

scheme earlier this year, along with

a number of public information

4:28:474:28:50

events. As part of that process they

have been working closely with the

4:28:504:28:55

RHS, as one of the key stakeholders,

rightly recognising the importance

4:28:554:28:59

of this site regionally and

nationally. That in gauge has been

4:28:594:29:04

constructive and helpful to both

organisations, I understand. -- that

4:29:044:29:09

engagement. RHS Wisley has expressed

three main concern is to highways

4:29:094:29:13

England in relation to access to the

gardens. The first is the potential

4:29:134:29:19

for land take and associated impact

on historic trees and habitats. The

4:29:194:29:23

second is the need to retain, as

they see it, direct access from

4:29:234:29:28

Wisley Lane onto the A3. And the

third is the additional distance

4:29:284:29:35

visitors to RHS Wisley would have to

travel under the proposed new road

4:29:354:29:38

layout. All three elements have been

mentioned by my honourable friend. I

4:29:384:29:44

recognise these concerns, as to

highways England, and I can reassure

4:29:444:29:48

my honourable friend that they are

being carefully considered. We

4:29:484:29:52

cannot use this debate to pre-empt

the formal processes which highways

4:29:524:29:56

England are committed to undertake

under process of law. It is

4:29:564:30:00

important that these are not

compromised, as they are designed to

4:30:004:30:05

enable sound public decision-making

on large-scale infrastructure

4:30:054:30:06

investments. These due processes

need to be fair to all parties.

4:30:064:30:14

Within these constraints, I have

little doubt that highways England

4:30:144:30:17

will find the optimal solution for

all, and one that minimises the

4:30:174:30:22

impact on the unique habitat and

trees at RHS Wisley. On issues of

4:30:224:30:27

access, I am advised that all

options are being carefully

4:30:274:30:31

considered and evaluated. This is an

essential step ahead of the

4:30:314:30:35

preferred route announcement for the

scheme, which I expect in the coming

4:30:354:30:38

weeks. While I am sympathetic to the

concerns I have heard over the last

4:30:384:30:44

few months, and of course this

evening from my honourable friend, I

4:30:444:30:47

must be clear that it is not

appropriate for myself or highways

4:30:474:30:50

England to consider any access

options that do not improve the

4:30:504:30:54

safety of this stretch of road, or

provide value for taxpayers' money.

4:30:544:31:00

I recognise the concerns of RHS

Wisley, the commercial concerns

4:31:004:31:04

about the distances some visitors

may need to travel under a proposed

4:31:044:31:07

new road layout, as well as their

concern that there should be

4:31:074:31:12

self-effacing slips at the

roundabout, as my honourable friend

4:31:124:31:16

has mentioned. As part of a value

for money consideration, the

4:31:164:31:19

business case must demonstrate

optimal use of resources to achieve

4:31:194:31:23

intended outcomes. But the key point

for this debate, as noted, is that

4:31:234:31:29

these commercial considerations do

not form part of the current scheme

4:31:294:31:33

proposal that highways England has

been asked and funded to deliver.

4:31:334:31:37

They could be considered as a

separate scheme in a future road

4:31:374:31:41

investment period, if appropriate,

and I am sure they would be given,

4:31:414:31:45

at that time," said rate. As

highways England moves towards a

4:31:454:31:52

preferred route announcement, I am

assured that they will continue to

4:31:524:31:56

engage with RHS Wisley. They are

carefully considering responses to

4:31:564:32:00

their consultation and will publish

the results in due course. This will

4:32:004:32:03

make sure that potential impacts on

the community are -- community and

4:32:034:32:09

environment have been considered. It

will ensure the final scheme design

4:32:094:32:13

considers all relevant responses

where applicable, and it will assure

4:32:134:32:18

that the final environmental

statement takes into account those

4:32:184:32:21

impacts and any mitigation measures

needed to address them.

4:32:214:32:28

Highways England will hold a second

consultation with the public can

4:32:284:32:33

give their views and influence the

specific development of the design.

4:32:334:32:36

I hope this encourages my honourable

friend in the view that the

4:32:364:32:40

Government and Highways England are

sensitive to the concerns he has so

4:32:404:32:43

eloquently raised this evening,

while recognising the critical

4:32:434:32:48

importance of our roads and

specifically of this junction

4:32:484:32:50

scheme, in building an economy that

works for everyone and the network

4:32:504:32:55

of highways that is safe. I have

also asked Highways England to write

4:32:554:33:05

to RHS Wisley explaining the current

position in response to the numerous

4:33:054:33:08

correspondence they have received,

as I thought to myself on behalf of

4:33:084:33:12

the Department. I cannot close

without responding to the final very

4:33:124:33:17

courteous and generous invitation

considering the manner of cake. As

4:33:174:33:22

the householder, there are no

ministers to my knowledge are

4:33:224:33:26

resistant to the charms of cake,

least of all a piece of RHS Wisley

4:33:264:33:31

Victoria sponge, as dutifully set

out. A bum would be one thing that

4:33:314:33:37

cake, I bridge to the House, is

quite a different matter, especially

4:33:374:33:39

when accompanied by a cup of tea

although I would insist upon paying

4:33:394:33:45

myself but I would be delighted to

take up this kind invitation

4:33:454:33:49

provided we're first able to see how

the matter of months after the

4:33:494:33:52

proper process of consultation has

completed.

The question is that this

4:33:524:33:59

House now do adjourn. As many as are

of the opinion, say "aye". To the

4:33:594:34:02

contrary, "no". The ayes have it.

Order, order.

4:34:024:34:16

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