Browse content similar to 14/12/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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the Act of Parliament which
triggered Article 50. The terms of | 0:00:00 | 0:00:01 | |
Article 50 were well-known to this
House and they have a fixed duration | 0:00:01 | 0:00:05 | |
of two years. Can the Secretary of
State tell us what recent | 0:00:05 | 0:00:14 | |
discussions he's had with
representatives of the UK financial | 0:00:14 | 0:00:17 | |
sector on the effect of the UK
leaving the single market, as there | 0:00:17 | 0:00:24 | |
are increasing reports of jobs being
transferred to other EU countries. | 0:00:24 | 0:00:29 | |
Since the creation of our department
we have engaged closely with the | 0:00:29 | 0:00:34 | |
financial services industry and
received representations from UK | 0:00:34 | 0:00:38 | |
finance for city UK, Association of
foreign banks and investment | 0:00:38 | 0:00:41 | |
Association as well as many firms in
Edinburgh which is a global leader | 0:00:41 | 0:00:46 | |
in the asset management and
insurance industry. We'll continue | 0:00:46 | 0:00:48 | |
to work closely with them and
colleagues at the Treasury to ensure | 0:00:48 | 0:00:53 | |
our financial services industry
thrives. Will the government | 0:00:53 | 0:00:56 | |
consider negotiating our continued
participation in Erasmus? The Prime | 0:00:56 | 0:01:05 | |
Minister said we will continue in
areas of culture and education. I | 0:01:05 | 0:01:10 | |
believe this is something we will
explore in the next phase of talks. | 0:01:10 | 0:01:15 | |
Last week's agreement recognise the
rights of Northern Ireland citizens | 0:01:15 | 0:01:19 | |
in line with the Good Friday
Agreement. All the government be | 0:01:19 | 0:01:22 | |
seeking the same rights for my
constituents in Bristol to work, | 0:01:22 | 0:01:25 | |
travel and live in the European
Union? The issue of onward movement | 0:01:25 | 0:01:32 | |
in the European Union is an issue we
wish to continue to press. It's | 0:01:32 | 0:01:36 | |
interesting that the European
Parliament made resolutions | 0:01:36 | 0:01:39 | |
yesterday that it would support the
right of UK nationals to have | 0:01:39 | 0:01:42 | |
movement within the EU. This is
something we will continue to take | 0:01:42 | 0:01:45 | |
forward into the next phase of the
negotiations. On financial services, | 0:01:45 | 0:01:51 | |
how hopeful ministers that through
the negotiations the UK will retain | 0:01:51 | 0:01:56 | |
a passport for service providers to
trade across the EU? We are at the | 0:01:56 | 0:02:04 | |
start of negotiations on the future
relationships but I think we should | 0:02:04 | 0:02:07 | |
explore all the possibilities to
make sure the UK and the EU continue | 0:02:07 | 0:02:10 | |
to benefit from the fact we have a
global financial services Centre in | 0:02:10 | 0:02:14 | |
London and the UK. Mr Speaker, B
Secretary of State for Scotland said | 0:02:14 | 0:02:20 | |
the government would bring forward
amendments to close 11 of the EU | 0:02:20 | 0:02:23 | |
Bill, well these amendments be
published and shared with the | 0:02:23 | 0:02:26 | |
Scottish Government had Welsh
Assembly before being tabled? The | 0:02:26 | 0:02:33 | |
honourable gentleman is ingenious in
raising the topic of amendments. Of | 0:02:33 | 0:02:37 | |
course we will want to insular as we
take forward our engagement with the | 0:02:37 | 0:02:43 | |
devolved administrations this issue
of clause 11 is addressed. Thank | 0:02:43 | 0:02:48 | |
you. Order. In view of the interest
in the House and outside, I wish as | 0:02:48 | 0:02:59 | |
an exception to the general rule to
make a statement about the replies | 0:02:59 | 0:03:04 | |
which I had sent today to those
honourable members who have written | 0:03:04 | 0:03:07 | |
to me recently asking me to grant
precedence to matters of privilege | 0:03:07 | 0:03:14 | |
relating to the motion agreed by the
House and the 1st of November | 0:03:14 | 0:03:21 | |
covering Brexit impact assessments.
Several members have sought | 0:03:21 | 0:03:24 | |
precedents to raise an alleged
contempt in relation to the accounts | 0:03:24 | 0:03:29 | |
ministers have given over the past
15 months of the sectoral analysis | 0:03:29 | 0:03:33 | |
and assessment work undertaken by
departments in preparation for | 0:03:33 | 0:03:39 | |
Brexit. I have carefully considered
the representations made to me as | 0:03:39 | 0:03:44 | |
well as discussing the issue and the
practice of the House with the Clerk | 0:03:44 | 0:03:51 | |
of the House. I have to judge only
whether to give precedence to a | 0:03:51 | 0:03:56 | |
motion on the floor of the House.
Ministers could with the advantage | 0:03:56 | 0:04:05 | |
have been considerably clearer in
their statements, particularly in | 0:04:05 | 0:04:10 | |
challenging lines of questioning in
the select committees which were | 0:04:10 | 0:04:16 | |
based upon a genuine misconception.
However, from the evidence which I | 0:04:16 | 0:04:22 | |
have seen to date, I have concluded
that the test which I am bound to | 0:04:22 | 0:04:27 | |
apply that there is an arguable case
that there has on this matter been a | 0:04:27 | 0:04:31 | |
contempt of the House has not been
met. Other members have written to | 0:04:31 | 0:04:41 | |
me seeking precedents to raise an
alleged contempt in relation to the | 0:04:41 | 0:04:45 | |
response by the Secretary of State
to the motion for an address agreed | 0:04:45 | 0:04:51 | |
on the 1st of November. I have
carefully considered the | 0:04:51 | 0:04:54 | |
representations made to me as as
discussing the issue and the | 0:04:54 | 0:04:58 | |
practice of the House with the Clerk
of the House. I have to judge only | 0:04:58 | 0:05:05 | |
whether to give precedence to a
motion on the floor of the House. | 0:05:05 | 0:05:08 | |
While it was most regrettable that
the Secretary of State, a point I | 0:05:08 | 0:05:15 | |
made to him privately but I now
state publicly, unilaterally excised | 0:05:15 | 0:05:20 | |
some material from the papers which
he provided, and that it took so | 0:05:20 | 0:05:25 | |
long to provide the papers, I also
feel bound to pay due attention to | 0:05:25 | 0:05:32 | |
the formally recorded view of the
committee that the Secretary of | 0:05:32 | 0:05:36 | |
State had complied with the order of
the 1st of November. I have | 0:05:36 | 0:05:42 | |
concluded from the evidence which I
have seen to date that the test | 0:05:42 | 0:05:46 | |
which I am bound to apply that there
is an arguable case that there has | 0:05:46 | 0:05:52 | |
on this matter been a contempt of
the House has not been met in this | 0:05:52 | 0:05:58 | |
case. I do not judge that points of
order can arise from these rulings. | 0:05:58 | 0:06:04 | |
Business question, Valerie Vaz 's
topic at the Leader of the House | 0:06:04 | 0:06:13 | |
please update the House on the
forthcoming business. Leader of the | 0:06:13 | 0:06:17 | |
House Andrea Leadsom. Thank you Mr
Speaker. The business for the week | 0:06:17 | 0:06:25 | |
commencing the 18th of December will
be Monday the 18th of December | 0:06:25 | 0:06:30 | |
consideration in committee of the
Finance Bill Day one. Tuesday the | 0:06:30 | 0:06:35 | |
19th of December, continuation of
consideration in committee of the | 0:06:35 | 0:06:37 | |
Finance Bill Day two, followed by a
motion to approve a statutory | 0:06:37 | 0:06:43 | |
instrument relating to terrorism,
followed by a motion to approve | 0:06:43 | 0:06:47 | |
European documents relating to the
Schengen information system. | 0:06:47 | 0:06:53 | |
Wednesday the 20th of December,
conclusion of continuation of | 0:06:53 | 0:06:56 | |
committee of the European Withdrawal
Bill Day eight. Thursday the 21st of | 0:06:56 | 0:07:01 | |
December, General debate on Russian
interference in UK politics and | 0:07:01 | 0:07:04 | |
society followed by a general debate
on matters to be raised before the | 0:07:04 | 0:07:08 | |
forthcoming adjournment. The
subjects for these debates were | 0:07:08 | 0:07:11 | |
determined by the Backbench Business
Committee. Friday the 22nd of | 0:07:11 | 0:07:15 | |
December the House will not be
setting. The business of the week | 0:07:15 | 0:07:18 | |
commencing the 8th of January will
include on Monday the 8th of January | 0:07:18 | 0:07:23 | |
the second reading of the taxation
cross-border trade Bill. Colleagues | 0:07:23 | 0:07:27 | |
will also wish to know that
remaining stages of the European | 0:07:27 | 0:07:31 | |
Union Withdrawal Bill will take
place on Tuesday the 16th and | 0:07:31 | 0:07:35 | |
Wednesday the 17th of January 2018.
Mr Speaker, six months have passed | 0:07:35 | 0:07:43 | |
since the awful tragedy at Grenfell
Tower. Our hearts go out to those | 0:07:43 | 0:07:48 | |
who suffered such trauma and have
had to rebuild their lives after | 0:07:48 | 0:07:52 | |
such terrible loss. This was a truly
unimaginable tragedy and it should | 0:07:52 | 0:07:58 | |
never have happened. Today's
memorial service will remember those | 0:07:58 | 0:08:00 | |
we lost and will thank the emergency
services, the recovery team, the | 0:08:00 | 0:08:08 | |
community, public support workers
and volunteers who did everything | 0:08:08 | 0:08:10 | |
they could on that terrible night.
Valerie Vaz. Thank you. Can I thank | 0:08:10 | 0:08:19 | |
the Leader of the House for the
future business. I note cheese only | 0:08:19 | 0:08:22 | |
gone as far as the 8th of January so
I'm not sure with a date for the | 0:08:22 | 0:08:26 | |
restoration renewal has also been
fixed for the 11 or if it's going to | 0:08:26 | 0:08:30 | |
be moved. Mr Speaker, they say good
things come in threes. Firstly | 0:08:30 | 0:08:34 | |
tomorrow it is Save the Children
Christmas Jumper Day. Secondly, we | 0:08:34 | 0:08:43 | |
congratulate the new member of the
Alabama the Democrat Doug Jones on | 0:08:43 | 0:08:47 | |
his victory that politics is about
hope and not division. Thirdly, the | 0:08:47 | 0:08:53 | |
matter of yesterday. We are very
pleased that finally Parliament has | 0:08:53 | 0:08:59 | |
been recognised as being sovereign.
It brings back to Parliament the | 0:08:59 | 0:09:03 | |
final vote on the deal so Parliament
can have a say, just as every | 0:09:03 | 0:09:10 | |
Parliament in the EU will have a say
on the deal. It enables us to do our | 0:09:10 | 0:09:15 | |
job. Mr Speaker, you thought three
was the magic number, actually four | 0:09:15 | 0:09:22 | |
is the magic number. Before anything
happens to those MPs who voted to | 0:09:22 | 0:09:26 | |
bring sovereignty back to
Parliament, let's remember there are | 0:09:26 | 0:09:30 | |
many rebels still sitting in this
House. One of the things that are | 0:09:30 | 0:09:34 | |
going to flow from the EU Withdrawal
Bill are the many SIs which will be | 0:09:34 | 0:09:40 | |
coming out. The government has
conceded the amendment from the | 0:09:40 | 0:09:43 | |
procedure committee so can I ask
when will the new committee be set | 0:09:43 | 0:09:48 | |
up, the sifting committee? Can she
ensured the cheque comes from the | 0:09:48 | 0:09:52 | |
opposition? Mr Speaker I've heard
what you said about the content and | 0:09:52 | 0:09:57 | |
the sexual analysis of the
assessments. I have seen the | 0:09:57 | 0:10:00 | |
documents. We have to almost sign a
note to say we cannot reveal what's | 0:10:00 | 0:10:07 | |
in it. We are democratically elected
members of Parliament, we cannot | 0:10:07 | 0:10:12 | |
share that information with our
constituents, I don't think that is | 0:10:12 | 0:10:14 | |
acceptable. If there is any
commercial information in there that | 0:10:14 | 0:10:21 | |
may or may not be excluded, and if
it's just a matter of fact, I can | 0:10:21 | 0:10:28 | |
see no reason why members can't see
the documents in the reference | 0:10:28 | 0:10:32 | |
library and why it can't be
published. I'm not sure if I can | 0:10:32 | 0:10:36 | |
reveal this bit but in the
footnotes, many of the footnotes, | 0:10:36 | 0:10:40 | |
from the office of National is to do
so it is in the public domain in any | 0:10:40 | 0:10:44 | |
event. -- Office of National
Statistics. Having undertaken the | 0:10:44 | 0:10:50 | |
biggest reorganisation in the NHS
the government has embarked on | 0:10:50 | 0:10:52 | |
another one with transformational
plans. They now intend to bring | 0:10:52 | 0:11:00 | |
forward regulations to support the
setting up of accountable care | 0:11:00 | 0:11:05 | |
organisations, an idea imported from
the United States. It's not clear | 0:11:05 | 0:11:09 | |
how the ACOs will be accountable to
the public and what level of private | 0:11:09 | 0:11:13 | |
sector involvement there will be and
what implications that will be for | 0:11:13 | 0:11:17 | |
NHS staff. We've had CCG 's, STP 's,
ACOs, it's becoming an anachronism | 0:11:17 | 0:11:25 | |
of incompetence from this
government. The Shadow Secretary of | 0:11:25 | 0:11:29 | |
State for help has written to the
leader to ask whether the | 0:11:29 | 0:11:32 | |
regulations will be published in the
New Year. Can I ask is that the | 0:11:32 | 0:11:38 | |
government's intention to do so and
if so when? Can the leader reassure | 0:11:38 | 0:11:44 | |
the House there will be adequate
time for a debate and vote? Again | 0:11:44 | 0:11:49 | |
we've got a government that cannot
make a decision. We've got a new | 0:11:49 | 0:11:52 | |
industrial strategy but made a
decision on the Swansea tidal | 0:11:52 | 0:11:55 | |
lagoon. There was a letter on the
20th of November signed by 100 | 0:11:55 | 0:12:01 | |
businesses. We've had adjournment
debates from members on our side, | 0:12:01 | 0:12:06 | |
we've had oral questions, written
questions on the latest one says a | 0:12:06 | 0:12:09 | |
decision will be made in due course.
Could the Leader of the House please | 0:12:09 | 0:12:13 | |
say what that means, or is it the
case the government don't want to | 0:12:13 | 0:12:16 | |
make an investment in Labour Wales?
Turning to the motion of the | 0:12:16 | 0:12:24 | |
opposition day and how the
information has been dealt with, | 0:12:24 | 0:12:29 | |
it's crucial for us, the opposition
and members of Parliament to hold | 0:12:29 | 0:12:32 | |
the government to account. We've got
a situation where the Leader of the | 0:12:32 | 0:12:35 | |
House said on the 26th of October
that the relevant Minister will | 0:12:35 | 0:12:40 | |
respond to opposition Day motion is
no later than 12 weeks. There was a | 0:12:40 | 0:12:45 | |
point of order last week by my
honourable friend the shadows | 0:12:45 | 0:12:51 | |
negative state of education. She
said she received a response on the | 0:12:51 | 0:12:55 | |
tuition fee motion that had no
bearing on the motion. It was done | 0:12:55 | 0:12:59 | |
in a written statement on the last
day so it didn't give us an | 0:12:59 | 0:13:04 | |
opportunity to question the Minister
on that. Could the Leader of the | 0:13:04 | 0:13:07 | |
House meet with me and perhaps
discuss with the House authorities | 0:13:07 | 0:13:10 | |
how we can take this forward and
have proper information so that we | 0:13:10 | 0:13:13 | |
can hold the government to account
which is what our job is. Mr | 0:13:13 | 0:13:18 | |
Speaker, I fail to mention
previously the passing away of Jimmy | 0:13:18 | 0:13:22 | |
Hurd MP. He was a good servant of
this House, he was chairman of the | 0:13:22 | 0:13:30 | |
European scrutiny select committee
and the panel of chairs for 14 | 0:13:30 | 0:13:34 | |
years. He served this House well. I
want to honour his memory just as | 0:13:34 | 0:13:40 | |
I've joined the Leader of the House
in honouring the memory of those who | 0:13:40 | 0:13:44 | |
died at Grenfell Tower. There was a
memorial yesterday which you | 0:13:44 | 0:13:51 | |
attended and there will be a
memorial in St Paul's Cathedral | 0:13:51 | 0:13:54 | |
today attended by the Prime Minister
and the Leader of the Opposition. | 0:13:54 | 0:14:00 | |
The shadow Housing Minister has
asked the Prime Minister why, when | 0:14:00 | 0:14:03 | |
she said I have fixed deadline of
three weeks everyone affected to be | 0:14:03 | 0:14:07 | |
found a home nearby, but that hasn't
taken place. Mr Speaker, as you let | 0:14:07 | 0:14:12 | |
the hammock candle yesterday in
Speaker 's house, candles will be | 0:14:12 | 0:14:16 | |
lit to remember the innocent dead at
St Paul's which will take place any | 0:14:16 | 0:14:21 | |
minute now -- Hannukah candle.
One-minute people watching TV or | 0:14:21 | 0:14:26 | |
doing their homework, the next
minute they are dead. The light has | 0:14:26 | 0:14:29 | |
gone out of their lives but the
flame of remembrance will continue | 0:14:29 | 0:14:33 | |
to burn as we remember them today
and always. | 0:14:33 | 0:14:43 | |
Thank you Mr Speaker and certainly I
share in the great tribute from the | 0:14:43 | 0:14:50 | |
lady opposite to those who suffered
in the Grenfell Tower tragedy. Our | 0:14:50 | 0:14:59 | |
thoughts with them today and all the
time. The government has been | 0:14:59 | 0:15:03 | |
committed in the last six months,
all the way through, that the | 0:15:03 | 0:15:06 | |
families and survivors will have
needs taken care of. Something the | 0:15:06 | 0:15:13 | |
government remains committed to. I
also want to pay tribute to Jamie | 0:15:13 | 0:15:20 | |
Hood, a great servant to the house.
The honourable lady asks about the | 0:15:20 | 0:15:26 | |
scheduling of the debate on
restoration, she will be were a | 0:15:26 | 0:15:31 | |
number of representations have been
made from members across both sides | 0:15:31 | 0:15:36 | |
of the house. Looking into options
other than those before the debate | 0:15:36 | 0:15:40 | |
to take place. A number of
priorities to consider. We are | 0:15:40 | 0:15:45 | |
listening to representation being
made on the debate. Future of | 0:15:45 | 0:15:50 | |
business will continue to be
announced in the usual way. The | 0:15:50 | 0:15:53 | |
honourable lady asks about the issue
of the shifting committee. I want to | 0:15:53 | 0:16:01 | |
pay tribute to my honourable friend,
proposing amendments that I have | 0:16:01 | 0:16:06 | |
been happy to confirm I will propose
changes to standing orders once the | 0:16:06 | 0:16:13 | |
bill has received Royal assent. The
honourable lady asks about viewing | 0:16:13 | 0:16:23 | |
the analysis and you yourself have
just confirmed that after taking | 0:16:23 | 0:16:31 | |
advice from the Brexit select
committee you are satisfied that | 0:16:31 | 0:16:34 | |
they are satisfied, this is a very
important point. Addressing the | 0:16:34 | 0:16:49 | |
major challenges facing the hills
give challenge system. Improving | 0:16:49 | 0:17:01 | |
integration. I think we can all
agree, it is vital that we focus on | 0:17:01 | 0:17:13 | |
making the most productive use, out
of the resources available. On the | 0:17:13 | 0:17:19 | |
subject of opposition day debates,
when a motion has been approved by | 0:17:19 | 0:17:30 | |
the house, the relevant Minister
will respond to the resolution by | 0:17:30 | 0:17:34 | |
making a statement no more than 12
weeks after the debate. | 0:17:34 | 0:17:46 | |
We will be able to open any actions
that have been taken. It is a very | 0:17:49 | 0:18:05 | |
complex and the track record is
excellent, 26% of electricity | 0:18:05 | 0:18:10 | |
derived from renewables, improving
low carbon and electricity resources | 0:18:10 | 0:18:25 | |
should not be ignored. I just want
to reiterate that we are working | 0:18:25 | 0:18:36 | |
closely with the Royal Borough of
Kensington and Chelsea to provide | 0:18:36 | 0:18:44 | |
that we can provide social housing.
It may be sensible to have another | 0:18:44 | 0:18:58 | |
Grenfell Tower United meeting in six
months. We will not forget what we | 0:18:58 | 0:19:03 | |
heard this week, so we can learn
more from those who have life after | 0:19:03 | 0:19:11 | |
death. Remembering the Foreign
Secretary's visit to Iran, it could | 0:19:11 | 0:19:16 | |
be a good idea that the relevant
ministers look back into deportation | 0:19:16 | 0:19:23 | |
from this country and ask if it is
seriously sensible to try to expel | 0:19:23 | 0:19:27 | |
somebody who has been living here
for most of their life, after | 0:19:27 | 0:19:32 | |
criminal attack has lost hands and
feet. And also to review the case, | 0:19:32 | 0:19:39 | |
when someone who has not lived in
Ghana for more than a year since he | 0:19:39 | 0:19:47 | |
was four. Up for deportation. The
only thing missing in that | 0:19:47 | 0:20:03 | |
fascinating essay, request for a
statement or debate. Next week. | 0:20:03 | 0:20:15 | |
Referred to the first week back.
Zero statement or debate. It is not | 0:20:15 | 0:20:22 | |
beyond the competence. Can I gently
say to other members, if they wish | 0:20:22 | 0:20:25 | |
to imitate the right honourable
member, this should not seek to | 0:20:25 | 0:20:33 | |
imitate him in length today. Thank
you Mr Speaker. I absolutely share | 0:20:33 | 0:20:41 | |
my right honourable friend's for the
review of the experience of | 0:20:41 | 0:20:45 | |
survivors six months on from today.
With regards to his point on | 0:20:45 | 0:20:52 | |
deportation I am not aware of the
specific keys but Foreign Office | 0:20:52 | 0:20:55 | |
ministers will discuss those with.
Can I thank the leader of the house | 0:20:55 | 0:21:01 | |
for announcing next week, and thank
you for the helpful statement and I | 0:21:01 | 0:21:06 | |
fully appreciate but in the wider
context something has to change. We | 0:21:06 | 0:21:15 | |
have to get back onto an even keel,
these difficulties are down to the | 0:21:15 | 0:21:22 | |
fact that these governments are not
prepared to participate fully in the | 0:21:22 | 0:21:26 | |
Democratic stature is of this house.
We have satisfactory, contrary to | 0:21:26 | 0:21:32 | |
all democratic instincts, badly
letting down constituents that we | 0:21:32 | 0:21:35 | |
represent and serve. When government
diminish, bad start happens and bad | 0:21:35 | 0:21:43 | |
stuff happens in the context of
this. It has to stop. Return the | 0:21:43 | 0:21:50 | |
house to the conditions prior to the
last election, diminish democracy we | 0:21:50 | 0:21:54 | |
can proud of. I know it is party
season, but today few site the | 0:21:54 | 0:22:06 | |
morning after the night before. You
can almost feel the groggy heads, | 0:22:06 | 0:22:13 | |
defeat for Brexit plans. Hopefully
this is going to be the first steps | 0:22:13 | 0:22:17 | |
of the brakes on sanity. I think one
of the lessons from last night has | 0:22:17 | 0:22:22 | |
to be that it is conclusive that you
have cross-party talks across the | 0:22:22 | 0:22:27 | |
house about the Brexit process and
that must involve the democratic | 0:22:27 | 0:22:31 | |
assemblies across the United
Kingdom. Mr Speaker, can we have a | 0:22:31 | 0:22:37 | |
debate on trading standards. I think
the feeling in Scotland is that we | 0:22:37 | 0:22:40 | |
have been sold a Tory pup. Scottish
Conservative MPs said they would | 0:22:40 | 0:22:46 | |
come down here, proudly and
defiantly, taking on the Scottish | 0:22:46 | 0:22:55 | |
Government. Nothing other than the
conservative lobby for this. Down to | 0:22:55 | 0:23:06 | |
the whip. Scotland is demanding the
money back. If we cannot get the | 0:23:06 | 0:23:13 | |
money back, can we at least have
these honourable gentleman replaced | 0:23:13 | 0:23:16 | |
by champions for Scotland who will
act for the entries in this house. | 0:23:16 | 0:23:25 | |
Thank you Mr Speaker. The honourable
gentleman is obviously on good form | 0:23:25 | 0:23:28 | |
this morning. He made a slip up,
calling my friends, gentlemen. A | 0:23:28 | 0:23:40 | |
lady or two among them. I take that
seriously. They make an enormous | 0:23:40 | 0:23:47 | |
contribution to the constituencies
in Scotland. Regularly attending | 0:23:47 | 0:23:52 | |
this, so that they can't raise
particular issues. I encourage them | 0:23:52 | 0:23:55 | |
to do that. The honourable gentleman
does not mention the two billion | 0:23:55 | 0:24:03 | |
additional funding for Scotland that
was announced by the Chancellor in | 0:24:03 | 0:24:06 | |
the recent budget that should be a
very good boost to Scottish | 0:24:06 | 0:24:10 | |
finances. That should actually
enable the Scottish Government not | 0:24:10 | 0:24:14 | |
to take the step of making Scotland
the most highly taxed part of the | 0:24:14 | 0:24:21 | |
United Kingdom. Also raising the
question of democracy and listening. | 0:24:21 | 0:24:25 | |
He will be aware... In this place we
have had countless opportunities to | 0:24:25 | 0:24:32 | |
discuss Briggs, the government has
been listening and I myself have | 0:24:32 | 0:24:35 | |
taken part in a number of
discussions about how we can more | 0:24:35 | 0:24:38 | |
carefully accommodate the views of
this house, we have been listening | 0:24:38 | 0:24:45 | |
carefully and I have been delighted
to accommodate the effort and | 0:24:45 | 0:24:49 | |
procedures of the committee,
something that the house was keen to | 0:24:49 | 0:24:51 | |
see. We have had eight hours of
protected debate every day, eight | 0:24:51 | 0:25:00 | |
days of the committee. Exhaustively
looking at every aspect. This is | 0:25:00 | 0:25:04 | |
certainly not evidence of a failure
to communicate or engage. The | 0:25:04 | 0:25:09 | |
government is listening and we are
keen to engage across the house. | 0:25:09 | 0:25:12 | |
That is good to continue to be the
case as we seek to leave the | 0:25:12 | 0:25:17 | |
European Union with a good deal for
all parts of the native kingdom. -- | 0:25:17 | 0:25:22 | |
United. | 0:25:22 | 0:25:23 | |
Before the debate announced, will
she reflect on the fact that many of | 0:25:28 | 0:25:31 | |
Winston Churchill's greatest war
time speeches, were made from Church | 0:25:31 | 0:25:37 | |
House. Would she consider that would
be an appropriate location? Well... | 0:25:37 | 0:25:47 | |
My honourable friend will no doubt
want to take part in the debate on | 0:25:47 | 0:25:53 | |
the question of restoration but it
is vital that we focus on the key | 0:25:53 | 0:25:58 | |
issues. Protecting the Paris for
future generations. It is a heritage | 0:25:58 | 0:26:07 | |
site, 1 million visitors every year.
The future is paramount. So to, | 0:26:07 | 0:26:13 | |
costs to taxpayers. We absolutely
have to focus on the best value for | 0:26:13 | 0:26:17 | |
money that we can. Can I thank the
leader of the house for the business | 0:26:17 | 0:26:24 | |
statement, and also for the meeting
that she had with me last week to | 0:26:24 | 0:26:28 | |
discuss a range of issues. Can I as
again for early notice of any time | 0:26:28 | 0:26:36 | |
allocation for the backbench
business committee for January so | 0:26:36 | 0:26:38 | |
that members can have ample notice
for times. How the chamber and | 0:26:38 | 0:26:44 | |
Westminster Hall. A little gripe...
The backbench business committee has | 0:26:44 | 0:26:50 | |
a membership of eight. Usually,
four. Can I ask that we actually | 0:26:50 | 0:27:03 | |
looked at that in standing orders.
Possibly a similar forum, could she | 0:27:03 | 0:27:14 | |
possibly have a word with her
colleague, with the committee of | 0:27:14 | 0:27:18 | |
selection and ask him not to pick
members of the backbench business | 0:27:18 | 0:27:25 | |
committee for the statutory
instrument committee at the same | 0:27:25 | 0:27:27 | |
time. I am always very happy to
address representations from the | 0:27:27 | 0:27:34 | |
honourable gentleman. I will look
into the point that he has | 0:27:34 | 0:27:37 | |
mentioned. Last week, the general
electorate announced the loss of | 0:27:37 | 0:27:48 | |
1000 jobs in my constituency and
could we have a statement from the | 0:27:48 | 0:27:54 | |
government both on the support that
will be provided to those trained | 0:27:54 | 0:28:02 | |
and excellent workers to find other
work but also to show how the United | 0:28:02 | 0:28:06 | |
Kingdom government will support
power engineering saw that it can | 0:28:06 | 0:28:11 | |
maintain and grow the position in
research, manufacturing and export? | 0:28:11 | 0:28:18 | |
I am very sorry to hear of these
potential losses. My honourable | 0:28:18 | 0:28:24 | |
friend is absolutely correct to
support constituents. The government | 0:28:24 | 0:28:27 | |
meets with the general electorate to
discuss business and November | 0:28:27 | 0:28:31 | |
announced plans for the global
restructuring. Consultation under | 0:28:31 | 0:28:34 | |
way on the redundancies and the
timescale is yet to be announced. | 0:28:34 | 0:28:39 | |
The government stands ready to
support anyone who loses their job | 0:28:39 | 0:28:45 | |
through the DWP rapid response
service. I want to raise the issue | 0:28:45 | 0:28:51 | |
of rough sleeping. My constituents
are contacting me, very concerned | 0:28:51 | 0:28:57 | |
especially in this weather weather
rapid rise of people sleeping on the | 0:28:57 | 0:29:04 | |
streets. Hull council have done good
work to prevent 500 cases of | 0:29:04 | 0:29:10 | |
homelessness but a 75% increase and
I wanted to know if we can get the | 0:29:10 | 0:29:15 | |
government debate on why it has
since 2010 rough sleeping has | 0:29:15 | 0:29:21 | |
doubled in this country,
particularly the last year. | 0:29:21 | 0:29:26 | |
The honourable lady is right to
raise the subject. It is extremely | 0:29:26 | 0:29:31 | |
disturbing to see anyone sleeping
rough in our country. The government | 0:29:31 | 0:29:36 | |
is investing a significant sum to
eliminate rough sleeping altogether | 0:29:36 | 0:29:43 | |
by 2027 but the Harvard by 2022.
Certainly in my own area, the Hope | 0:29:43 | 0:29:52 | |
centre in Northampton is doing
excellent work as are so many | 0:29:52 | 0:29:55 | |
homeless charities around the
country to ensure that during this | 0:29:55 | 0:29:59 | |
cold patch nobody is having to sleep
rough. I shared the honourable | 0:29:59 | 0:30:02 | |
lady's concern and she may wish to
seek a backbench debate to discuss | 0:30:02 | 0:30:08 | |
this concerning issue. Following on
from my colleague, this week to bury | 0:30:08 | 0:30:17 | |
vulnerable people were driven from
Taunton Deane and left in Bridgwater | 0:30:17 | 0:30:21 | |
on an excuse which I find
unacceptable in the 21st century. | 0:30:21 | 0:30:25 | |
They unfortunately were left to
tonight 's fending for themselves | 0:30:25 | 0:30:28 | |
and a tragedy could have occurred.
If it wasn't very kind people we | 0:30:28 | 0:30:34 | |
would have had a nightmare on our
hands. Can I follow my Labour | 0:30:34 | 0:30:37 | |
colleagues to say can we please have
a debate in this House and homeless | 0:30:37 | 0:30:41 | |
people and people who are vulnerable
in our society. Can we please have a | 0:30:41 | 0:30:46 | |
debate in government time to talk
about this. Just before the Leader | 0:30:46 | 0:30:53 | |
of the House responds I listened
most attentively to what the | 0:30:53 | 0:30:55 | |
honourable gentleman said, but can I
just very politely say to him that | 0:30:55 | 0:31:01 | |
if he is going to refer to another
honourable member's constituency it | 0:31:01 | 0:31:06 | |
would be a courtesy to notify that
member in advance. That's all I want | 0:31:06 | 0:31:12 | |
to say. Matters should be sorted out
between colleagues but I think that | 0:31:12 | 0:31:15 | |
that is what I would call a point of
courtesy rather than a point of | 0:31:15 | 0:31:19 | |
order. I completely share the
concern about homelessness and rough | 0:31:19 | 0:31:30 | |
sleeping. It is something that is a
huge worry across the House and died | 0:31:30 | 0:31:35 | |
in courage all members to consider
combining to have a backbench debate | 0:31:35 | 0:31:41 | |
on the subject. We have implemented
the Homelessness Reduction Act. | 0:31:41 | 0:31:46 | |
We've allocated £550 million to
tackle homelessness and Rob sleeping | 0:31:46 | 0:31:51 | |
through to 2020 and also 10 million
of funding to support eight new | 0:31:51 | 0:31:57 | |
social impact project so we can give
targeted support of the most | 0:31:57 | 0:32:00 | |
difficult issues around rough
sleeping. I'm grateful to the Leader | 0:32:00 | 0:32:06 | |
of the House that she is thinking
about moving the date of the debate | 0:32:06 | 0:32:09 | |
because it is better not to have it
on a Thursday. Can I ask whether we | 0:32:09 | 0:32:12 | |
can have a debate on Ipsa,
specifically because of the way I | 0:32:12 | 0:32:19 | |
will stop treated. Most employers
bring forward the December staff and | 0:32:19 | 0:32:25 | |
salary payment before Christmas. Why
can't Ipsa do that? The honourable | 0:32:25 | 0:32:32 | |
gentleman raises a very interesting
point which I am happy to look into | 0:32:32 | 0:32:36 | |
and his behalf. | 0:32:36 | 0:32:46 | |
Mr Speaker, East Worthing will be
briefer than West Worthing. When we | 0:32:46 | 0:32:51 | |
going to have a debate on the
parlous state of children's social | 0:32:51 | 0:32:56 | |
care? My honourable friend and I
share a deep interest in the plight | 0:32:56 | 0:33:10 | |
of the earliest years and the
importance of secure early | 0:33:10 | 0:33:14 | |
attachment for the future mental and
emotional well-being of children, | 0:33:14 | 0:33:17 | |
right the way through their lives. I
certainly and always happy to | 0:33:17 | 0:33:24 | |
support in his efforts to achieve
debates in this House on that | 0:33:24 | 0:33:26 | |
subject. I have details here from
Norfolk police of regular occasions | 0:33:26 | 0:33:36 | |
when people are held unlawfully by
the police while they are waiting | 0:33:36 | 0:33:41 | |
for mental health services to
respond. In one case someone was | 0:33:41 | 0:33:45 | |
detained for 68 hours in police
custody. We know this is now | 0:33:45 | 0:33:48 | |
happening around the country quite
readily. Will the Leader of the | 0:33:48 | 0:33:55 | |
House arrange for the Health
Secretary to make a statement to | 0:33:55 | 0:33:59 | |
this House? It is surely intolerable
that the police are put into a | 0:33:59 | 0:34:03 | |
position where they are having to
detain people unlawfully because of | 0:34:03 | 0:34:07 | |
failures of mental health services.
Well, what I can say to the | 0:34:07 | 0:34:17 | |
gentleman is the government has
shown a huge commitment to mental | 0:34:17 | 0:34:22 | |
health services. I share his concern
about the specific point he raises | 0:34:22 | 0:34:27 | |
and I do encourage him to try and
attend health questions next Tuesday | 0:34:27 | 0:34:31 | |
where he will get the opportunity to
ask ministers directly. Thank you Mr | 0:34:31 | 0:34:38 | |
Speaker for your words about the
courtesies of this House and the way | 0:34:38 | 0:34:41 | |
we should conduct ourselves. I
wanted to say that last week I met | 0:34:41 | 0:34:45 | |
with the Taunton Chamber of Commerce
and most of the members of that | 0:34:45 | 0:34:48 | |
chamber are small and medium-sized
businesses and are the backbone of | 0:34:48 | 0:34:52 | |
our thriving economy in Taunton and
Wellington. Enabling them to grow is | 0:34:52 | 0:34:57 | |
really important as we move forward,
especially with Brexit. Could we | 0:34:57 | 0:35:00 | |
have a debate on how to benefit this
sector in the south-west with | 0:35:00 | 0:35:08 | |
specific reference on how to unlock
opportunities through the government | 0:35:08 | 0:35:12 | |
is commendable industrial strategy?
I totally agree with my honourable | 0:35:12 | 0:35:18 | |
friend. SME's are the lifeblood of
our economy and they deserve our | 0:35:18 | 0:35:23 | |
praise and support. Taunton Chamber
of Commerce are putting some | 0:35:23 | 0:35:26 | |
incredibly smart measures in place
to support local businesses and I | 0:35:26 | 0:35:30 | |
congratulate them for that. Our
industrial strategy will support | 0:35:30 | 0:35:34 | |
businesses. The retail sector will
benefit from business rate relief, | 0:35:34 | 0:35:38 | |
cutting £10 billion of red tape and
improving access to finance. | 0:35:38 | 0:35:45 | |
LAUGHTER Thank you Mr Speaker. Let
me tell the House about my | 0:35:45 | 0:36:01 | |
constituent. He wasn't allowed to
take breaks. He was then refused | 0:36:01 | 0:36:12 | |
annual leave and was prevented from
carrying annual leave over. Due to | 0:36:12 | 0:36:17 | |
the tribunal fees he wasn't able to
take them to court. I've managed to | 0:36:17 | 0:36:23 | |
get him some money back but they
haven't engaged in any meaningful | 0:36:23 | 0:36:27 | |
way with myself to get him full
compensation. Can I get a statement | 0:36:27 | 0:36:32 | |
confirming the Leader of the House
will review how they treat employees | 0:36:32 | 0:36:36 | |
and advise how I can get that
settlement back? As he often does | 0:36:36 | 0:36:43 | |
the honourable gentleman raises a
very serious constituency issue and | 0:36:43 | 0:36:46 | |
I recommend to him that he seeks an
adjournment debate so he can address | 0:36:46 | 0:36:50 | |
this directly with ministers. This
evening I'll be joining the upfield | 0:36:50 | 0:36:58 | |
Chamber of Commerce that their
Christmas dinner celebrating small | 0:36:58 | 0:37:01 | |
businesses across my constituency
providing opportunity and security. | 0:37:01 | 0:37:06 | |
In fact, since 2010 1000 jobs have
been created every day. Will the | 0:37:06 | 0:37:12 | |
Leader of the House provide time for
debate on the government's success | 0:37:12 | 0:37:16 | |
in employment? Well, I'm very
pleased to join my honourable friend | 0:37:16 | 0:37:23 | |
in welcoming the latest employment
figures and in congratulating | 0:37:23 | 0:37:28 | |
upfield Chamber of Commerce that the
work they do to support businesses. | 0:37:28 | 0:37:33 | |
There are 325,000 more people in
work than this time last year. Youth | 0:37:33 | 0:37:37 | |
unemployment is down 416,000 since
2010. Figures I'm sure the whole | 0:37:37 | 0:37:43 | |
house will welcome. Last night we
had the unedifying sight of a | 0:37:43 | 0:37:51 | |
government Minister frantically
coming to the dispatch box to give | 0:37:51 | 0:37:53 | |
concessions to his own backbenchers
to push through government policy. | 0:37:53 | 0:37:56 | |
Last week we had clause 11 of the EU
Withdrawal Bill where many of the | 0:37:56 | 0:38:01 | |
backbenches on the government side
said it was deficient but amendments | 0:38:01 | 0:38:04 | |
were brought forward. Can we have a
statement or debate when the | 0:38:04 | 0:38:08 | |
government will bring forward
amendments to crawl seven which her | 0:38:08 | 0:38:11 | |
side says is deficient in the Bill?
-- clause seven. The honourable | 0:38:11 | 0:38:16 | |
gentleman will be aware that they
ate as I've just announced of the EU | 0:38:16 | 0:38:22 | |
Withdrawal Bill will be debated next
week so he may wish to raise his | 0:38:22 | 0:38:25 | |
point Ben -- day eight will be
debated next week the whole house | 0:38:25 | 0:38:31 | |
will agree constituency thought to
be equalised but the departure. -- | 0:38:31 | 0:38:35 | |
we will be cutting the cost of
governance. Can she make sure any | 0:38:35 | 0:38:39 | |
private members Bill coming along
that my correct this debate gets the | 0:38:39 | 0:38:44 | |
money billet needs? -- Bill that it
needs. I will look closely at what | 0:38:44 | 0:38:54 | |
might honourable friend suggests.
Can if I may declare an interest. I | 0:38:54 | 0:39:05 | |
travel to Bangladesh to see the
Rohingya refugee camps. Can I ask | 0:39:05 | 0:39:10 | |
the Leader of the House, can we have
a debate on the situation of the | 0:39:10 | 0:39:14 | |
Rohingya? I know there have been a
number of debates focusing on the | 0:39:14 | 0:39:17 | |
crisis as people fled Myanmar. The
situation of 800,000 people living | 0:39:17 | 0:39:24 | |
in camps and 36,000 unaccompanied
children, 30,000 women who have been | 0:39:24 | 0:39:29 | |
raped and are now pregnant, the need
for clean water, the need for | 0:39:29 | 0:39:33 | |
refugees, we need to know what the
ongoing commitment about our | 0:39:33 | 0:39:37 | |
government and ministers will be to
help the plight of the Rohingya. | 0:39:37 | 0:39:43 | |
Festival I commend the honourable
gentleman who are going to see fit | 0:39:43 | 0:39:46 | |
himself, I know a number of
honourable members from all sides of | 0:39:46 | 0:39:50 | |
the House have been to lend their
own personal support and I commend | 0:39:50 | 0:39:54 | |
all of them for that. It is a
harrowing case. We've had three | 0:39:54 | 0:39:58 | |
debates and questions on this
subject in September and I know the | 0:39:58 | 0:40:02 | |
government is watching it incredibly
closely. My right honourable friend | 0:40:02 | 0:40:07 | |
the International Development
Secretary has announced further UK | 0:40:07 | 0:40:09 | |
aid of £12 million to try and help
support the Rohingya people, | 0:40:09 | 0:40:14 | |
bringing the UK's total support of
£59 million. I also want to commend | 0:40:14 | 0:40:18 | |
the generosity of the British people
who have personally contributed | 0:40:18 | 0:40:24 | |
millions of pounds to helping
support the plight of the Rohingya | 0:40:24 | 0:40:26 | |
people. According to the latest
Office of National Statistics | 0:40:26 | 0:40:38 | |
figures, unemployment in Crawley has
reduced by 59% since 2010. Can we | 0:40:38 | 0:40:44 | |
have a debate early in the New Year
and continuing economic policies | 0:40:44 | 0:40:48 | |
that increase employment and
therefore more revenue for our | 0:40:48 | 0:40:52 | |
important public services? I'm
delighted to hear about the | 0:40:52 | 0:40:57 | |
employment statistics in my
honourable friend's constituency. I | 0:40:57 | 0:41:02 | |
know he shares my enthusiasm for the
fact employment is up more than 3 | 0:41:02 | 0:41:07 | |
million since 2010. That's more
people than ever before with these | 0:41:07 | 0:41:10 | |
security of a pay packet to support
themselves and their families. The | 0:41:10 | 0:41:19 | |
government's draft ombudsman Bill is
of great interest to many of my | 0:41:19 | 0:41:21 | |
constituents who are victims to the
attacks of the technology pension | 0:41:21 | 0:41:26 | |
scheme which cannot be investigated
due to a loophole in the law. Will | 0:41:26 | 0:41:29 | |
the leader find the time for this
important Bill to come to the House | 0:41:29 | 0:41:33 | |
in the New Year? The honourable lady
will be aware that the government | 0:41:33 | 0:41:39 | |
considers carefully all of the
potential different bills and tries | 0:41:39 | 0:41:44 | |
to accommodate as far as possible
those important bills that improve | 0:41:44 | 0:41:49 | |
the lives of all of our
constituents. She raises an | 0:41:49 | 0:41:52 | |
important issue and I will look at
it. Can we have a debate in this | 0:41:52 | 0:41:58 | |
House and very damaging policies
being pursued by the SNP with regard | 0:41:58 | 0:42:02 | |
to taxation which will have a huge
impact on my constituents and across | 0:42:02 | 0:42:08 | |
Scotland? Does my right honourable
friend agree with me that the SNP | 0:42:08 | 0:42:14 | |
should stick with their manifesto
commitment of not raising the basic | 0:42:14 | 0:42:17 | |
rate of income tax which they went
to the Scottish public with, to stop | 0:42:17 | 0:42:23 | |
Scotland being the highest taxed
part of the UK? My honourable friend | 0:42:23 | 0:42:29 | |
continues to be a champion for his
constituents and he's absolutely | 0:42:29 | 0:42:35 | |
right to raise his concerns. Income
tax powers were an important part of | 0:42:35 | 0:42:39 | |
the Smith commission recommendations
and we have devolved them through | 0:42:39 | 0:42:42 | |
the Scotland Act of 2016. It does
say a lot about the priorities of | 0:42:42 | 0:42:47 | |
the Scottish Government that within
just a year of having these powers | 0:42:47 | 0:42:51 | |
they are threatening to renege on a
manifesto commitment. As I said | 0:42:51 | 0:42:55 | |
earlier, it would be a great shame
that if Scotland were to become the | 0:42:55 | 0:43:00 | |
highest taxed part of the UK. Mr
Speaker, does the Leader of the | 0:43:00 | 0:43:09 | |
House understand that 1,300,000
people will be killed this year by | 0:43:09 | 0:43:14 | |
road death? Does she understand also
that this week we have had global | 0:43:14 | 0:43:20 | |
legislators from all over the world
in this Parliament including the | 0:43:20 | 0:43:24 | |
Speaker of the Moldovan Parliament
here debating the auspices of the | 0:43:24 | 0:43:30 | |
zero foundation that we will
actually tackle this? It's the | 0:43:30 | 0:43:34 | |
greatest epidemic of our time, can
we have a debate on it in the New | 0:43:34 | 0:43:38 | |
Year? I'm certainly aware that the
government have tried hard to insert | 0:43:38 | 0:43:50 | |
year -- ensure that we reduce
incidence of road traffic accidents | 0:43:50 | 0:43:53 | |
and tried to provide all drivers
with the right know-how to be able | 0:43:53 | 0:43:56 | |
to drive safely and carefully. He
will be aware of legislation coming | 0:43:56 | 0:44:01 | |
forward for driverless vehicles and
that is an opportunity to improve | 0:44:01 | 0:44:05 | |
road safety. But nevertheless he may
well wish to seek an adjournment | 0:44:05 | 0:44:11 | |
debate so you can discuss the
specific and good work of the | 0:44:11 | 0:44:14 | |
organisation he mentions. Thank you.
The government is committed to | 0:44:14 | 0:44:19 | |
helping at least another 11 million
children in the poorest countries | 0:44:19 | 0:44:23 | |
get a decent education by 2020. Will
the leader find the time to hold a | 0:44:23 | 0:44:29 | |
debate on the importance of
investing in education as a means to | 0:44:29 | 0:44:32 | |
helping children out of poverty? | 0:44:32 | 0:44:40 | |
My honourable friend raises
something the Government is | 0:44:40 | 0:44:42 | |
extremely proud of and that is our
efforts at international aid support | 0:44:42 | 0:44:47 | |
all young people everywhere to get a
decent education and I do encourage | 0:44:47 | 0:44:52 | |
him to seek an adjournment debate or
perhaps a backbench debate so all | 0:44:52 | 0:44:57 | |
colleagues can celebrate the
contribution of the UK people | 0:44:57 | 0:45:00 | |
towards ensuring education for all.
With an estimated 1400 people with | 0:45:00 | 0:45:09 | |
dementia stuck in hospital on
Christmas Day, dementia patients | 0:45:09 | 0:45:13 | |
will make up a quarter of people who
will spend this Christmas Day in | 0:45:13 | 0:45:17 | |
hospital because of delays in
finding them care. The Alzheimer | 0:45:17 | 0:45:22 | |
Society described hospital wards as
being turned into waiting rooms... I | 0:45:22 | 0:45:33 | |
think we all share in the desire to
see, particularly at Christmas, as | 0:45:33 | 0:45:38 | |
many people as possible receiving
the right sort of care and | 0:45:38 | 0:45:42 | |
protection and also some company. I
think the issue of loneliness is | 0:45:42 | 0:45:47 | |
also something that's been raised in
this chamber a great deal. We all | 0:45:47 | 0:45:52 | |
know that the NHS faces increased
pressures at wintertime and that's | 0:45:52 | 0:45:56 | |
why we have put in place an extra
£335 million on top of the | 0:45:56 | 0:46:02 | |
previously announced 100 million for
A&E departments. Beds have been | 0:46:02 | 0:46:10 | |
freed up since February and areas
continue to work to increase that | 0:46:10 | 0:46:15 | |
number to 3000 extra beds over the
winter period. Really important for | 0:46:15 | 0:46:20 | |
those who find themselves in
hospital during the Christmas | 0:46:20 | 0:46:22 | |
period. Will the Leader of the House
join me in congratulating the Cancer | 0:46:22 | 0:46:34 | |
Research UK committee for launching
Cancer Research UK hat and scarf. | 0:46:34 | 0:46:41 | |
Some colleagues are in the gallery
today showing off the wonderful | 0:46:41 | 0:46:45 | |
staff. Will the leader consider
calling a debate on the excellent | 0:46:45 | 0:46:53 | |
work of charities in fighting cancer
and will the right honourable friend | 0:46:53 | 0:46:55 | |
agree with me it is a fetching item
that will no doubt raise lots of | 0:46:55 | 0:47:02 | |
money for Cancer Research UK? By
sheer coincidence, this morning I | 0:47:02 | 0:47:08 | |
decided to wear a pink jacket, and
when my honourable friend presented | 0:47:08 | 0:47:12 | |
me with one of these wonderful
scarves that Elaine and her | 0:47:12 | 0:47:17 | |
colleagues have produced for Cancer
Research UK I was absolutely | 0:47:17 | 0:47:21 | |
delighted to find the chill in this
chamber could be offset by something | 0:47:21 | 0:47:26 | |
warm from Scotland. I'm absolutely
delighted with the contribution of | 0:47:26 | 0:47:30 | |
all of those volunteers to come
Syriza, having had family members | 0:47:30 | 0:47:36 | |
suffer from this terrible disease
myself. We should all celebrate the | 0:47:36 | 0:47:40 | |
excellent work of volunteers. If I
had known of the intention of the | 0:47:40 | 0:47:46 | |
honourable gentleman in advance and
of the sartorial plans of the Leader | 0:47:46 | 0:47:50 | |
of the House, I would myself have
worn a pink tie of which I'm proud | 0:47:50 | 0:47:54 | |
to say I have several. Nevertheless
the important point is the great | 0:47:54 | 0:48:00 | |
cause has been eloquently
highlighted and that is what this | 0:48:00 | 0:48:02 | |
place exists to do. Could she asked
the Department for Work and Pensions | 0:48:02 | 0:48:13 | |
to come before the House to talk
about personal independence | 0:48:13 | 0:48:22 | |
payments. I had a case of a lady
recently who had cancer which has | 0:48:22 | 0:48:27 | |
had life changing effects on Earth.
When I challenged the case, they | 0:48:27 | 0:48:31 | |
said it had been below standard. Can
she ask them to come urgently and | 0:48:31 | 0:48:38 | |
make a statement? The honourable
gentleman raises concerning case and | 0:48:38 | 0:48:44 | |
I'm sure ministers would be happy to
talk to him about this. In fact if | 0:48:44 | 0:48:49 | |
he wants to e-mail me I can take it
up on his behalf but I would say | 0:48:49 | 0:48:53 | |
this Government has been committed
to helping those with disabilities | 0:48:53 | 0:48:57 | |
to take control of their own care
and to be able to be funded to meet | 0:48:57 | 0:49:02 | |
their own needs and also to help
them get into work, which for many | 0:49:02 | 0:49:06 | |
people gives them the opportunity to
contribute and have the | 0:49:06 | 0:49:11 | |
self-confidence that arises from
being able to work within their | 0:49:11 | 0:49:14 | |
capability to do so. On one of the
and busiest Saturdays in the run-up | 0:49:14 | 0:49:20 | |
to Christmas in Totnes, local
activists decided to parade with a | 0:49:20 | 0:49:28 | |
real coffin and leave a large
carefully constructed model of a | 0:49:28 | 0:49:34 | |
coffin at my constituency office.
Does the Leader of the House feel, | 0:49:34 | 0:49:38 | |
particularly in light of the report
on intimidation in public life, this | 0:49:38 | 0:49:43 | |
overstepped the line of decency and
there are real dangers in using the | 0:49:43 | 0:49:48 | |
imagery of death directed against
individuals to whip up hatred and | 0:49:48 | 0:49:51 | |
most importantly of all this kind of
thing deters good candidates from | 0:49:51 | 0:49:56 | |
applying for public life. Yes, I was
disgusted, as I'm sure all | 0:49:56 | 0:50:04 | |
honourable and right honourable
members work to hear about the awful | 0:50:04 | 0:50:08 | |
experience of my honourable friend,
and really high at the time texted | 0:50:08 | 0:50:13 | |
heard to say I hope she was OK. That
must have been terrifying, truly | 0:50:13 | 0:50:18 | |
horrible. We should all condemn it
and call it out wherever we see this | 0:50:18 | 0:50:23 | |
kind of behaviour. I think the
report into the abuse and | 0:50:23 | 0:50:29 | |
intimidation of candidates
highlights that this is not a simple | 0:50:29 | 0:50:32 | |
matter of holding politicians to
account. This goes far beyond that | 0:50:32 | 0:50:39 | |
and it will be a deterrent to seeing
the calibre of candidates we want so | 0:50:39 | 0:50:47 | |
we all combine in condemning that
action against my friend. Can the | 0:50:47 | 0:50:57 | |
Minister arrange for a debate in
Government time, and don't refer me | 0:50:57 | 0:51:03 | |
for an adjournment debate, on the
impact of Brexit on the national | 0:51:03 | 0:51:07 | |
health service and the threat of
privatisation? Since this September, | 0:51:07 | 0:51:19 | |
the Department for exiting the EU
has answered departmental questions | 0:51:19 | 0:51:22 | |
on three occasions including just
before now. They have made several | 0:51:22 | 0:51:26 | |
oral statements. Deputy ministers
have appeared before the select | 0:51:26 | 0:51:31 | |
committee on three occasions and
that's in addition to the many hours | 0:51:31 | 0:51:38 | |
we have already spent discussing
legislation and we will of course be | 0:51:38 | 0:51:41 | |
discussing further legislation in
great detail over the next 18 months | 0:51:41 | 0:51:45 | |
so I'm sure the honourable gentleman
will have ample opportunity to raise | 0:51:45 | 0:51:49 | |
his specific interests. Can we have
a debate on government time with | 0:51:49 | 0:51:56 | |
relation to dementia? Many members
in this House have family members | 0:51:56 | 0:52:01 | |
who suffer from this wicked and
cruel disease. Can we have a debate | 0:52:01 | 0:52:05 | |
where we look at not just the
disease itself, but the social care | 0:52:05 | 0:52:09 | |
system, the health service and all
other aspects of society that | 0:52:09 | 0:52:13 | |
touches on dementia and hopefully
let's take this action forward. My | 0:52:13 | 0:52:19 | |
honourable friend raises an issue
that is of concern to all of us in | 0:52:19 | 0:52:23 | |
our constituencies and often also in
our families and it's certainly | 0:52:23 | 0:52:27 | |
something that is an increasing
problem in the UK and across the | 0:52:27 | 0:52:31 | |
world and something we should
regularly discuss so I do encourage | 0:52:31 | 0:52:34 | |
him to seek perhaps a backbench
debate on that subject so we can | 0:52:34 | 0:52:38 | |
look at exactly what further
measures can be taken to ensure we | 0:52:38 | 0:52:41 | |
do the best we can for those
suffering from dementia and their | 0:52:41 | 0:52:45 | |
families and friends. As part of the
work of the cross-party commission, | 0:52:45 | 0:52:53 | |
looking into the root causes of
youth violence, this week we heard | 0:52:53 | 0:52:56 | |
from a panel of experts about the
public health approach to reducing | 0:52:56 | 0:53:02 | |
violence and the evidence -based
results they have achieved. Can we | 0:53:02 | 0:53:06 | |
have a debate on this extremely
important issue? The honourable lady | 0:53:06 | 0:53:13 | |
has worked hard on this issue and I
commend her for that and I do | 0:53:13 | 0:53:17 | |
encourage her to seek an adjournment
debate on the subject. I'm sure it | 0:53:17 | 0:53:21 | |
would be of interest to a great
number of members. On Tuesday night | 0:53:21 | 0:53:26 | |
members from across the House
attended the Grenfell United meeting | 0:53:26 | 0:53:30 | |
on which you made a deeply emotional
and moving introduction. But the | 0:53:30 | 0:53:39 | |
reality is that most survivors gave
stories that are truly harrowing. | 0:53:39 | 0:53:44 | |
The reality is that this Christmas
most of those survivors will still | 0:53:44 | 0:53:49 | |
be in hotels or bed and breakfast
accommodation. Equally, the people | 0:53:49 | 0:53:57 | |
of this country have very willingly
parted with huge amounts of money in | 0:53:57 | 0:54:03 | |
compensation for those victims. The
money can't bring their relatives | 0:54:03 | 0:54:07 | |
back but that money does not appear
to be going and reaching the victims | 0:54:07 | 0:54:11 | |
and those people last ill in
temporary housing. So could we have | 0:54:11 | 0:54:17 | |
two statements, Mr Speaker, one from
the Secretary of State on the | 0:54:17 | 0:54:21 | |
progress of rehousing the survivors,
but also from the Secretary of State | 0:54:21 | 0:54:29 | |
for Culture, Media and Sport who are
responsible I understand for the | 0:54:29 | 0:54:32 | |
money being distributed to the
victims on where the money is going | 0:54:32 | 0:54:34 | |
and how it will reach the victims so
they can live their lives at least | 0:54:34 | 0:54:39 | |
in some degree of comfort. My
honourable friend raises some very | 0:54:39 | 0:54:48 | |
important points and I will very
happily go away and discuss that | 0:54:48 | 0:54:52 | |
with our honourable friends in the
DCLG. Latest figures I have are that | 0:54:52 | 0:55:03 | |
142 of the 151 households of
accepted an offer of either | 0:55:03 | 0:55:09 | |
temporary or permanent
accommodation, 99 of these have | 0:55:09 | 0:55:12 | |
moved in and of which 54 households
have moved into temporary | 0:55:12 | 0:55:18 | |
accommodation and 45 into permanent
accommodation. But I think is all | 0:55:18 | 0:55:22 | |
honourable members will know and
appreciate, we can move only at the | 0:55:22 | 0:55:27 | |
pace that those survivors wish to go
out and it's a very difficult area | 0:55:27 | 0:55:32 | |
and nobody wants to force anybody to
move at a pace they are | 0:55:32 | 0:55:37 | |
uncomfortable with. I hope all
honourable members will rest assured | 0:55:37 | 0:55:41 | |
the Government is utterly determined
to provide the right level of | 0:55:41 | 0:55:46 | |
support and care for all those who
are still very much suffering at the | 0:55:46 | 0:55:51 | |
present time. Is it possible, given
the ongoing problems with the | 0:55:51 | 0:55:58 | |
roll-out, that we can have a
statement or an urgent debate on | 0:55:58 | 0:56:03 | |
Universal Credit? There's a family
in my constituency who were told to | 0:56:03 | 0:56:08 | |
claim Universal Credit and shut down
their child tax credit claim. That | 0:56:08 | 0:56:13 | |
was the wrong advice as they had
more than two children. They are now | 0:56:13 | 0:56:18 | |
being told to claim job-seeker's
allowance which HMRC won't backdate | 0:56:18 | 0:56:24 | |
or reinstate their tax credits. So
they are living on less than £1 60 | 0:56:24 | 0:56:30 | |
per day. Given the UN's target of
nobody should be below two dollars | 0:56:30 | 0:56:36 | |
per day, how does that sit with the
Government's anti-poverty strategy? | 0:56:36 | 0:56:42 | |
The honourable gentleman raises a
very concerning constituency matter. | 0:56:42 | 0:56:49 | |
He may well wish to raise that
specific point on Monday. On | 0:56:49 | 0:56:54 | |
Universal Credit more generally, the
Government really has listened, this | 0:56:54 | 0:56:59 | |
is an attempt to ensure that
Universal Credit provides a good | 0:56:59 | 0:57:04 | |
solution for people that combines
six PVS benefits into one, that | 0:57:04 | 0:57:09 | |
improves access to childcare -- six
previous benefits into one, it | 0:57:09 | 0:57:15 | |
enables them to keep more of what
they earn as they move into work. | 0:57:15 | 0:57:20 | |
They can get 100% of their first
payment up front if they need to and | 0:57:20 | 0:57:25 | |
return it over 12 months. We have
introduced an overlap for those | 0:57:25 | 0:57:28 | |
already receiving housing benefit to
ensure a smooth transition onto the | 0:57:28 | 0:57:33 | |
new system, and really importantly
Universal Credit is expected to | 0:57:33 | 0:57:37 | |
boost employment by 250,000. Because
it is a simpler system that makes | 0:57:37 | 0:57:44 | |
sure work always pays. A family run
high street shop in my constituency | 0:57:44 | 0:57:56 | |
recently received national and
international notoriety by taking on | 0:57:56 | 0:58:00 | |
the big hitting supermarkets and
produced the ultimate heart-warming | 0:58:00 | 0:58:04 | |
Christmas advert for the production
cost of just £7. I strongly | 0:58:04 | 0:58:10 | |
recommend all members of this House
to go online and look at it. But can | 0:58:10 | 0:58:14 | |
I ask my right honourable friend if
we can have a debate on how we | 0:58:14 | 0:58:19 | |
promote our independent high-street
shops, showing that through sheer | 0:58:19 | 0:58:24 | |
imagination and ingenuity, David
really can't take on Goliath. I | 0:58:24 | 0:58:30 | |
congratulate Harford hardware on
their Christmas advert. It just goes | 0:58:30 | 0:58:33 | |
to show the kind of entrepreneurial
spirit in our businesses. We aim to | 0:58:33 | 0:58:41 | |
support businesses like this to
prosper and grow so they can compete | 0:58:41 | 0:58:44 | |
with the likes of Moz the monster
with their own successful Christmas | 0:58:44 | 0:58:52 | |
campaigns. My constituent Matthew
pounder was served an eviction | 0:58:52 | 0:58:56 | |
notice when he chose to switch to a
month by month contract rather than | 0:58:56 | 0:59:00 | |
sign up to a 12 month tenancy. He
later discovered letting agents. | 0:59:00 | 0:59:06 | |
Told his landlords Matthew wanted to
leave the property. The agents try | 0:59:06 | 0:59:10 | |
to force him out of the home in
order to profit from the fees of a | 0:59:10 | 0:59:14 | |
new tenancy. Can we look at how we
can strengthen regulations on how to | 0:59:14 | 0:59:20 | |
protect renters. | 0:59:20 | 0:59:23 | |
Again, the honourable gentleman
raises an important and concerning | 0:59:23 | 0:59:27 | |
case. As I've mentioned there are
DWP questions on Monday. It may be | 0:59:27 | 0:59:33 | |
tricky but he may find a way to be
able to raise the question there. | 0:59:33 | 0:59:38 | |
More generally what I would say to
the honourable gentleman is the | 0:59:38 | 0:59:41 | |
government is looking at measures to
protect rental tenants better. The | 0:59:41 | 0:59:46 | |
draft measures coming forward and
consultations and wait to try and | 0:59:46 | 0:59:50 | |
ensure that people in rented
accommodation have protected | 0:59:50 | 0:59:53 | |
tenancies and more security in the
longevity of their ability to remain | 0:59:53 | 0:59:57 | |
in their home. Good news, more
people are getting on their bike. In | 0:59:57 | 1:00:07 | |
my constituency for work or leisure.
That's a good thing because it's | 1:00:07 | 1:00:12 | |
very polluted in my constituency.
But a number of my constituents have | 1:00:12 | 1:00:17 | |
contacted me about shared spaces and
the danger of pedestrians mixing | 1:00:17 | 1:00:21 | |
with cyclists and the impact on
people with impaired vision. Could | 1:00:21 | 1:00:25 | |
the Leader of the House find time
for a debate on this safety issue? I | 1:00:25 | 1:00:32 | |
know my honourable friend always
speaks up for her constituents and | 1:00:32 | 1:00:35 | |
particularly she is concerned about
congestion and a big fan of cycling | 1:00:35 | 1:00:39 | |
so I commend her for that. She's
right to raise the issue of sharing | 1:00:39 | 1:00:45 | |
pavements between cyclists and
pedestrians and I encourage her to | 1:00:45 | 1:00:48 | |
seek an adjournment debate so she
can talk about the specific concerns | 1:00:48 | 1:00:51 | |
she has. I've recently been
contacted by five constituents who | 1:00:51 | 1:00:57 | |
have told me that the pain infusions
they need are being stopped because | 1:00:57 | 1:01:03 | |
of government cuts to East Riding
CCG. Please can we have an urgent | 1:01:03 | 1:01:07 | |
debate on the levels of funding for
the CCGs to provide therapeutic care | 1:01:07 | 1:01:13 | |
so these people can continue to have
some quality of life? What I can say | 1:01:13 | 1:01:19 | |
is that NHS funding will be over
half £1 trillion from 2015 to 2020. | 1:01:19 | 1:01:27 | |
We have record funding for the NHS.
Record numbers of doctors, nurses | 1:01:27 | 1:01:34 | |
and midwives. Last year the NHS
treated more people than ever | 1:01:34 | 1:01:37 | |
before. The Commonwealth fund has
rated the NHS the number one health | 1:01:37 | 1:01:42 | |
system in the world for the second
time in a row. There is record | 1:01:42 | 1:01:45 | |
funding available to the NHS. Where
she has specific concerns she should | 1:01:45 | 1:01:50 | |
absolutely raise them with
ministers, but be in no doubt this | 1:01:50 | 1:01:53 | |
government is absolutely committed
to a successful NHS that protects | 1:01:53 | 1:01:59 | |
our people and the people of this
country benefit from the amazing | 1:01:59 | 1:02:03 | |
work done by all our NHS staff | 1:02:03 | 1:02:07 | |
country benefit from the amazing
work done by all our NHS staff. | 1:02:07 | 1:02:09 | |
Would the Leader of the House join
me in welcoming ID cards for | 1:02:09 | 1:02:16 | |
Britain's 2.5 million military
veterans and will she provide time | 1:02:16 | 1:02:20 | |
for a debate for our veterans and
the Armed Forces Covenant? I do | 1:02:20 | 1:02:26 | |
commend the honourable friend to the
work he does as the treasurer of the | 1:02:26 | 1:02:30 | |
APPG on the Armed Forces Covenant.
As the Prime Minister has already | 1:02:30 | 1:02:34 | |
said, those who have served deserve
recognition for their sacrifice and | 1:02:34 | 1:02:39 | |
we will continue to make sure they
get it. As part of the government's | 1:02:39 | 1:02:44 | |
continued commitment to the veterans
card will ensure the public can | 1:02:44 | 1:02:48 | |
recognise our heroes when they are
accessing specific support such as | 1:02:48 | 1:02:52 | |
for health care, housing and the
charitable sector. Tonight Cardiff | 1:02:52 | 1:02:59 | |
has been designated officially as a
music city and can I congratulate | 1:02:59 | 1:03:02 | |
the campaign and colleagues in
Cardiff for that achievement. In the | 1:03:02 | 1:03:09 | |
New Year when my honourable friend
brings in his ten minute rule Bill | 1:03:09 | 1:03:13 | |
on January the tent, will she take a
look at it and consider giving it | 1:03:13 | 1:03:17 | |
government time in order to make
sure that other parts of the country | 1:03:17 | 1:03:20 | |
can benefit from having great music
venues into the future? I think | 1:03:20 | 1:03:27 | |
music brings enormous pressure right
across the UK and I congratulate | 1:03:27 | 1:03:33 | |
Cardiff for the opportunity to
celebrate musical achievements. I'm | 1:03:33 | 1:03:36 | |
not completely familiar with the
event that he is raising but I | 1:03:36 | 1:03:40 | |
congratulate them and wish them
every success with it. I will of | 1:03:40 | 1:03:44 | |
course look closely at the ten
minute rule Bill. Enfield is very | 1:03:44 | 1:03:52 | |
fortunate to benefit from three
local theatres, the Millfield | 1:03:52 | 1:03:55 | |
chicken shed and the Birkdale. I'll
be taking my grandchildren to the | 1:03:55 | 1:04:01 | |
Millfield to enjoy Dick Whittington
over the Christmas period. These | 1:04:01 | 1:04:11 | |
kind of local facilities are very
important. Can we have a early | 1:04:11 | 1:04:17 | |
debating government time about how
the government's very deep cuts to | 1:04:17 | 1:04:21 | |
local authorities has affected the
ability of the arts venues to | 1:04:21 | 1:04:25 | |
provide these kind of events and
programmes for local people? | 1:04:25 | 1:04:31 | |
Certainly can I congratulate all
those taking part in those plays at | 1:04:31 | 1:04:39 | |
Christmas time. The pantomime is
such good fun, my family continues | 1:04:39 | 1:04:43 | |
to enjoy it. It is important we
continue to enjoy and support those | 1:04:43 | 1:04:51 | |
local venues and the arts are a
vital part of a thriving UK economy. | 1:04:51 | 1:04:55 | |
She will be pleased to know there
are these CMS questions next week, | 1:04:55 | 1:04:59 | |
she can raise how this government
supports the arts and she will have | 1:04:59 | 1:05:06 | |
the chance before Christmas to put
her questions to ministers. May we | 1:05:06 | 1:05:16 | |
have a debate on the needful easylaw
lords etched by the all-party | 1:05:16 | 1:05:21 | |
Parliamentary Group -- Lucy's law.
Lucy was a black spaniel who was | 1:05:21 | 1:05:31 | |
puppy farms and sadly died. I think
the honourable lady is absolutely | 1:05:31 | 1:05:39 | |
right to raise this issue. We are a
nation of animal lovers. I myself as | 1:05:39 | 1:05:44 | |
Defra Secretary was pleased to
change the rules on puppy licensing | 1:05:44 | 1:05:49 | |
and it's important we continue to do
everything we can to enhance our | 1:05:49 | 1:05:54 | |
already very high standards of
animal welfare. Like many across | 1:05:54 | 1:06:00 | |
this House I'm becoming increasingly
concerned about the impact of | 1:06:00 | 1:06:04 | |
government policies on the mental
help of my constituents, especially | 1:06:04 | 1:06:09 | |
those moving onto Universal Credit
over Christmas. Can we have a debate | 1:06:09 | 1:06:13 | |
in government time on the impact of
government policy on mental health? | 1:06:13 | 1:06:21 | |
The honourable gentleman is right
that mental health is a very key and | 1:06:21 | 1:06:25 | |
important issue across the UK. He
will be pleased to know that around | 1:06:25 | 1:06:31 | |
1400 more people are accessing
mental health services every day | 1:06:31 | 1:06:34 | |
compared to 2010, that is up 40%.
There is a fivefold increase in the | 1:06:34 | 1:06:39 | |
number of people accessing talking
therapies since 2010 and spending on | 1:06:39 | 1:06:44 | |
mental health has increased to a
record 11.6 billion. There is a long | 1:06:44 | 1:06:48 | |
way to go and I certainly was
delighted to see the government's | 1:06:48 | 1:06:51 | |
launch of the green paper on mental
health last week. I'm sure the | 1:06:51 | 1:06:56 | |
honourable gentleman will want to
take part in that discussion and | 1:06:56 | 1:07:00 | |
provide his input to it. Mr Speaker,
this week the humanitarian | 1:07:00 | 1:07:09 | |
organisation the Enough Project
published a report which outlines | 1:07:09 | 1:07:13 | |
the government of Sudan's continued
oppression of religious minorities | 1:07:13 | 1:07:17 | |
and support for extremist groups.
Despite the Sudanese government | 1:07:17 | 1:07:21 | |
claims of improving human rights,
there is an ongoing campaign of | 1:07:21 | 1:07:24 | |
violence against Christians, Muslims
and other groups. The Leader of the | 1:07:24 | 1:07:30 | |
House agreed to a statement on this
matter? The honourable gentleman | 1:07:30 | 1:07:36 | |
raises a very serious issue about
human rights and particularly the | 1:07:36 | 1:07:40 | |
rights of different religious
groups. As ever I encourage him to | 1:07:40 | 1:07:44 | |
seek an adjournment debate on the
very important points he raises. | 1:07:44 | 1:07:53 | |
There is her tanned the world are
meant amongst many disabled people | 1:07:53 | 1:07:58 | |
about the extraordinary statement by
the Chancellor of the Exchequer that | 1:07:58 | 1:08:02 | |
one of the reasons for Britain's low
productivity figures is the | 1:08:02 | 1:08:07 | |
excessive number of disabled people
in the workforce. This is the | 1:08:07 | 1:08:10 | |
reverse of the truth, because every
disabled person who comes from | 1:08:10 | 1:08:18 | |
benefits to full-time work improve
productivity figures. When can we | 1:08:18 | 1:08:22 | |
have a debate to celebrate the great
work of all governments and the | 1:08:22 | 1:08:28 | |
European Union in increasing
opportunities for disabled people to | 1:08:28 | 1:08:32 | |
get into the workplace, and to thank
them for their heroic contributions | 1:08:32 | 1:08:36 | |
to our economy? The honourable
gentleman is raising a really | 1:08:36 | 1:08:43 | |
important point about the
contribution of disabled people to | 1:08:43 | 1:08:48 | |
our economy, and I'm absolutely
delighted to thank and praise them | 1:08:48 | 1:08:51 | |
from the dispatch box for the
contribution they make. There are | 1:08:51 | 1:08:55 | |
now more than 600,000 more disabled
people in work over the last three | 1:08:55 | 1:09:00 | |
years, 3.5 million people now in
work who have disabilities. This | 1:09:00 | 1:09:06 | |
government has a proud record of
supporting them and encouraging | 1:09:06 | 1:09:08 | |
them. Following yesterday's victory
in Parliament over the meaningful | 1:09:08 | 1:09:18 | |
vote, will the Leader of the House
make time available for a DeXEU | 1:09:18 | 1:09:29 | |
ministered to set out the assessment
they have conducted over the impact | 1:09:29 | 1:09:38 | |
of Brexit? As ever the honourable
gentleman uses terms that I would | 1:09:38 | 1:09:43 | |
not personally use. There will be
ample opportunities for him to raise | 1:09:43 | 1:09:48 | |
any questions that he has about the
arrangements of the UK as we seek to | 1:09:48 | 1:09:53 | |
leave the EU with the best possible
deal for all of the United Kingdom | 1:09:53 | 1:09:58 | |
and for our EU friends and
neighbours. That is what the | 1:09:58 | 1:10:02 | |
government is determined to do to
fulfil the referendum that took | 1:10:02 | 1:10:06 | |
place last year that took the very
clear decision that the UK will be | 1:10:06 | 1:10:11 | |
leaving the European Union. Last
week I chaired an event has chaired | 1:10:11 | 1:10:19 | |
of the social enterprise all-party
group on Chris White a former Member | 1:10:19 | 1:10:23 | |
for Leamington and I mentioned this
to the current member earlier. | 1:10:23 | 1:10:26 | |
Chris's report reviewed the public
services value Act and recommended | 1:10:26 | 1:10:35 | |
to strengthen, extend social value
including to this praise. -- | 1:10:35 | 1:10:45 | |
displays. It sounds like a very
interesting report. Not one I'd seen | 1:10:45 | 1:10:50 | |
myself but I think the honourable
gentleman is right to raise it. We | 1:10:50 | 1:10:53 | |
need to look at ways to ensure we
get the best value for the public | 1:10:53 | 1:10:57 | |
purse than para gym to seek an
adjournment debate -- and I | 1:10:57 | 1:11:04 | |
encourage him. I received
notification from the post office | 1:11:04 | 1:11:08 | |
that their branch in my constituency
was closing. I understand they were | 1:11:08 | 1:11:13 | |
aware for almost a year but they
just gave myself and constituents | 1:11:13 | 1:11:17 | |
three weeks notice. To rub salt in,
they also asked me if I had any idea | 1:11:17 | 1:11:22 | |
who might be interested in taking
over the branch. This is no way to | 1:11:22 | 1:11:26 | |
run a business let alone a public
servers. Can we have a debate on the | 1:11:26 | 1:11:31 | |
competence and accountability of
those running the post office? I'm | 1:11:31 | 1:11:35 | |
genuinely sorry to hear that, I
think that is unusual. Normally with | 1:11:35 | 1:11:40 | |
post office closures all members
receive good prior notice in | 1:11:40 | 1:11:44 | |
colluding specific requests for
suggestions on who might be | 1:11:44 | 1:11:47 | |
interested in taking over, and
obviously quite often we as MPs are | 1:11:47 | 1:11:51 | |
in a position to suggest
individuals. I'm generally sorry to | 1:11:51 | 1:11:54 | |
hear about that. He may be
interested to know that next | 1:11:54 | 1:11:57 | |
Wednesday there is a debate on post
office closures in Westminster Hall | 1:11:57 | 1:12:02 | |
and he may wish to take part in
that. One in ten fathers suffer with | 1:12:02 | 1:12:12 | |
postnatal depression and the suicide
rate rapidly increases in men | 1:12:12 | 1:12:15 | |
between the age of 30 and 43 after
having a child. My constituents Mark | 1:12:15 | 1:12:20 | |
Williams has been campaigning on
these subjects. Can I ask the Leader | 1:12:20 | 1:12:25 | |
of the House to find some time for a
government debate to bring new light | 1:12:25 | 1:12:29 | |
onto this part of mental health that
has a real impact on fathers across | 1:12:29 | 1:12:33 | |
the UK? I'm absolutely sympathetic
to the honourable gentleman's point | 1:12:33 | 1:12:40 | |
and in fact I may even have heard a
speech by the gentleman he mentions. | 1:12:40 | 1:12:46 | |
This is a subject that I care
passionately about, the perinatal | 1:12:46 | 1:12:51 | |
period. Not least of which because
of pre-, Perry and postnatal | 1:12:51 | 1:12:58 | |
depression of both mothers and
fathers but of course the extremely | 1:12:58 | 1:13:01 | |
profound impact that can have on the
future long-term mental health of | 1:13:01 | 1:13:06 | |
their child. I am very sympathetic
to the honourable gentleman's point | 1:13:06 | 1:13:11 | |
and I positively encourage him to
seek a backbench debate on this | 1:13:11 | 1:13:14 | |
subject because I know there are
members who take a big interest in | 1:13:14 | 1:13:18 | |
early years. The Leader of the House
will be aware of industrial action | 1:13:18 | 1:13:25 | |
by driving examiners this week and
the concerns of many bad management | 1:13:25 | 1:13:31 | |
of the DVLA are refusing to
negotiate. Can we have a debate and | 1:13:31 | 1:13:40 | |
ask the Department for Transport to
intervene in this matter? I think | 1:13:40 | 1:13:45 | |
the honourable gentleman may wish to
take this up directly with the | 1:13:45 | 1:13:49 | |
Department for Transport ministers.
I think he will recognise that a | 1:13:49 | 1:13:52 | |
debate on this subject would be very
helpful to try and move things | 1:13:52 | 1:13:56 | |
forward. If there are good ideas
suggested by members of Parliament. | 1:13:56 | 1:13:59 | |
Nevertheless it would be the
ministers to intervene if there is | 1:13:59 | 1:14:03 | |
intervention necessary. The people
in Syria were subject to a horrific | 1:14:03 | 1:14:13 | |
attack which killed 1700 people and
since then 400,000 civilians have | 1:14:13 | 1:14:18 | |
suffered constant artillery
bombardment and the blocking of | 1:14:18 | 1:14:24 | |
medical evacuations. May I ask for a
statement on the representations he | 1:14:24 | 1:14:28 | |
is making to help the people of
eastern Ghouta and what further | 1:14:28 | 1:14:35 | |
efforts can be taken to secure
peace? This government has shown our | 1:14:35 | 1:14:43 | |
very strong commitment to bed
sharing in finding a solution to the | 1:14:43 | 1:14:46 | |
problems of Syria but also in
providing aid to alleviate the | 1:14:46 | 1:14:52 | |
suffering of so many who have been
displaced or driven away altogether | 1:14:52 | 1:14:57 | |
into neighbouring countries. I think
we can be proud of our contribution | 1:14:57 | 1:15:00 | |
but the honourable gentleman may
well wish to raise that adds an | 1:15:00 | 1:15:05 | |
adjournment debate so he can speak
direct with ministers. | 1:15:05 | 1:15:18 | |
We now come to the select committee
statement. The honourable gentleman, | 1:15:18 | 1:15:23 | |
the Member for Tunbridge Morley,
will speak on his subject for up to | 1:15:23 | 1:15:29 | |
ten minutes during which time no
interventions may be taken. At the | 1:15:29 | 1:15:33 | |
conclusion of his statement I will
call members to put questions on the | 1:15:33 | 1:15:36 | |
subject of the statements and I
shall of course therefore call the | 1:15:36 | 1:15:41 | |
honourable gentleman to respond to
those questions in turn. Members can | 1:15:41 | 1:15:45 | |
expect to be called only once.
Interventions should be questions | 1:15:45 | 1:15:51 | |
and should be brief. The front bench
may take part in questioning. By now | 1:15:51 | 1:15:57 | |
called the chair of the foreign
affairs select committee. Thank you, | 1:15:57 | 1:16:04 | |
Mr Speaker, and it's a great
privilege to give the first select | 1:16:04 | 1:16:07 | |
committee statement to this House,
to this Parliament, in this | 1:16:07 | 1:16:12 | |
Parliament. It's a huge pleasure
because we are delegated from this | 1:16:12 | 1:16:17 | |
House to investigate a particular
area, in our case foreign affairs | 1:16:17 | 1:16:22 | |
and we are now reporting back to the
House on our findings. The Foreign | 1:16:22 | 1:16:25 | |
Affairs Committee chose to publish
its report on the ethnic cleansing | 1:16:25 | 1:16:30 | |
of the Rohingya population having
heard harrowing testimony. It has | 1:16:30 | 1:16:37 | |
rightly drawn the attention of all
sides of this House and has seen | 1:16:37 | 1:16:41 | |
honourable members from the City of
Durham, Kettering, Bolton South | 1:16:41 | 1:16:48 | |
East, Ealing Southall, Wolverhampton
South West, tooting, Colchester and | 1:16:48 | 1:16:52 | |
Cardiff Central take a personal
interest in this issue. I pay | 1:16:52 | 1:16:56 | |
particular tribute to those
honourable members who have visited | 1:16:56 | 1:17:01 | |
parts of the refugee community in
Bangladesh to hear directly from the | 1:17:01 | 1:17:05 | |
victims. The committee was able to
be clear that the violence against | 1:17:05 | 1:17:09 | |
the Rohingya is ethnic cleansing and
may constitute crimes against | 1:17:09 | 1:17:14 | |
humanity and even genocide because
of the testimony we received. We are | 1:17:14 | 1:17:18 | |
pleased the Government's initial
equivocation about the term has now | 1:17:18 | 1:17:22 | |
been clarified and the Minister has
been clear that the 650,000 who have | 1:17:22 | 1:17:28 | |
crossed the border into Bangladesh
since August were driven out by the | 1:17:28 | 1:17:33 | |
Burmese authorities. The
displacement is a compelling sign of | 1:17:33 | 1:17:36 | |
a desperate population and the
traumatic experiences they have | 1:17:36 | 1:17:40 | |
described are reminiscent of
atrocities elsewhere. In the face of | 1:17:40 | 1:17:45 | |
such abuse we must ask what 2005 UN
resolution we agreed on the | 1:17:45 | 1:17:52 | |
responsibility to protect requires
of us. The first must surely be the | 1:17:52 | 1:17:57 | |
UK Government conducts its own legal
analysis. Such analysis from a | 1:17:57 | 1:18:01 | |
permanent member of the United
Nations Security Council and indeed | 1:18:01 | 1:18:05 | |
the pen holder on Burma would help
shape understanding of the issue and | 1:18:05 | 1:18:11 | |
structure of global response. Today
this is needed more than ever. | 1:18:11 | 1:18:17 | |
Research found that at least 9000
Rohingya died between the 25th of | 1:18:17 | 1:18:23 | |
August and the 24th of September.
The charity MSF states that in the | 1:18:23 | 1:18:32 | |
most Conservative estimations, at
least 6000 of those deaths have been | 1:18:32 | 1:18:38 | |
caused by violence. This stays the
investigation conducted by the | 1:18:38 | 1:18:44 | |
Burmese military was brutal enough
to take the case to the | 1:18:44 | 1:18:49 | |
International criminal Court for
crimes against humanity. We also | 1:18:49 | 1:18:55 | |
heard reports of sexual violence
being used and the Secretary-General | 1:18:55 | 1:19:02 | |
is expected to be there this week.
We welcome too the actions taken by | 1:19:02 | 1:19:12 | |
the human rights Council to hear
about the degradation and treatment | 1:19:12 | 1:19:15 | |
of minorities in Burma. These build
on the achievements of our own | 1:19:15 | 1:19:23 | |
representatives in the UN to secure
a very strong presidential | 1:19:23 | 1:19:27 | |
statement. Burma's response to this
growing wadi of evidence or indeed | 1:19:27 | 1:19:33 | |
evidence of bodies has been
exceptionally poor. The commission | 1:19:33 | 1:19:39 | |
was clear and recall for its
recommendations to be implemented in | 1:19:39 | 1:19:43 | |
full. That's why the committee calls
on the UK to consider sanctions on | 1:19:43 | 1:19:47 | |
individuals connected with the
military regime and particularly on | 1:19:47 | 1:19:50 | |
the Commander in chief. Although
sanctions are an imperfect tool, it | 1:19:50 | 1:19:59 | |
is wrong for the UK to continue
engagement with Burma with no | 1:19:59 | 1:20:03 | |
demonstration of censure and his
responsibility in particular cannot | 1:20:03 | 1:20:09 | |
be ignored. The UK must bear some
responsibility for seeking to turn | 1:20:09 | 1:20:14 | |
outrage into action and should focus
on regional forums and allies to | 1:20:14 | 1:20:24 | |
achieve results. The committee
recognised, supported and welcomed | 1:20:24 | 1:20:28 | |
the efforts of my right honourable
friend the Minister who I'm glad to | 1:20:28 | 1:20:32 | |
see in his place on the Treasury
bench. The committee knows the sad | 1:20:32 | 1:20:42 | |
-- suddenness of Aung San Suu Kyi.
Not speaking out in the face of such | 1:20:42 | 1:20:56 | |
crimes suggests acquiesced at some
level under failure of leadership at | 1:20:56 | 1:21:01 | |
every level. She remains a better
option the alternatives perhaps, and | 1:21:01 | 1:21:06 | |
perhaps the only option for the
future, but she is now deeply | 1:21:06 | 1:21:11 | |
compromised. Finally Bangladesh
deserves praise and material support | 1:21:11 | 1:21:16 | |
for accommodating well over half a
million new refugees this year and | 1:21:16 | 1:21:19 | |
the British Government is also
deserves credit for its quick and | 1:21:19 | 1:21:23 | |
generous provision of aid. While
return must be the ambition, we | 1:21:23 | 1:21:27 | |
noted this can only happen when
humanitarian access is possible and | 1:21:27 | 1:21:33 | |
we are also concerned that the camps
in Bangladesh should not become | 1:21:33 | 1:21:38 | |
permanent, leaving people exposed to
radicalisation and storing up | 1:21:38 | 1:21:42 | |
problems for the future. As the
committee noted, this crisis was | 1:21:42 | 1:21:46 | |
sadly predictable and indeed the
Foreign Office did predict it. But | 1:21:46 | 1:21:51 | |
the Foreign Office's own warning
system did not raise enough alarm. | 1:21:51 | 1:21:55 | |
There was too much focus by the UK
and others in recent years on | 1:21:55 | 1:21:59 | |
supporting the democratic transition
and not enough on atrocity | 1:21:59 | 1:22:03 | |
prevention. Indeed as will set out
by Lord Haig during his term in | 1:22:03 | 1:22:08 | |
office. And delivering a tough and
unwelcome message to the Burmese | 1:22:08 | 1:22:13 | |
government about the Rohingya was
not made early enough. The United | 1:22:13 | 1:22:23 | |
Kingdom... Sorry, a minister in his
place was incredibly candid about | 1:22:23 | 1:22:26 | |
the need to reflect and the Foreign
Office must now learn lessons on | 1:22:26 | 1:22:32 | |
atrocity prevention from the crisis
to apply not only in Burma but | 1:22:32 | 1:22:36 | |
elsewhere. | 1:22:36 | 1:22:38 | |
Kerry McCarthy. I know of your
long-standing interest in this issue | 1:22:45 | 1:22:49 | |
which you demonstrated on the
backbenches. I think it's an | 1:22:49 | 1:22:52 | |
excellent report and I would like to
ask the chair of the foreign affairs | 1:22:52 | 1:22:56 | |
select committee, on the issue of
return to Burma, some of the | 1:22:56 | 1:23:00 | |
refugees may be reluctant to return
considering the treatment they have | 1:23:00 | 1:23:04 | |
received. To what extent of a look
at alternatives to be in either | 1:23:04 | 1:23:09 | |
Burma or Bangladesh and did they
feel there was support from within | 1:23:09 | 1:23:12 | |
the Rohingya community to be moved
to somewhere, completely? The | 1:23:12 | 1:23:22 | |
committee was very focused on the
ability to return to Burma because | 1:23:22 | 1:23:25 | |
we did not seek to allow the Burmese
government and opt out by which they | 1:23:25 | 1:23:30 | |
could permanently displace these
people and forced others to take | 1:23:30 | 1:23:34 | |
responsibility for their brutality.
Although the committee was aware | 1:23:34 | 1:23:38 | |
return could only happen when it was
properly supervised, we did not | 1:23:38 | 1:23:44 | |
emphasise the point on third-party
displacement. Would my own marble | 1:23:44 | 1:23:51 | |
and gallant friend agree that one of
the main things that could be done | 1:23:51 | 1:23:56 | |
would be to send a UN special envoy
to Iraq I stayed to help people | 1:23:56 | 1:24:05 | |
there and get them back who are
displaced and does he believe that | 1:24:05 | 1:24:09 | |
would be a really good move on
behalf of the UN? My marble friend | 1:24:09 | 1:24:19 | |
is right, we do look at that and
welcome that suggestion. The | 1:24:19 | 1:24:32 | |
honourable gentleman is deeply
grateful to his honourable friend | 1:24:32 | 1:24:34 | |
that she promoted him to the status
of a military general. Can I pay | 1:24:34 | 1:24:43 | |
tribute to my honourable friend in
the way he has chaired the | 1:24:43 | 1:24:48 | |
committee, and indeed to the
Minister for the candid way in which | 1:24:48 | 1:24:51 | |
he presented the case of the UK
Government when he spoke to give | 1:24:51 | 1:24:54 | |
evidence to the committee but I
wonder if I could ask the chairman | 1:24:54 | 1:24:57 | |
of the committee if he thinks this
again shows the bluntness of the UN | 1:24:57 | 1:25:02 | |
and shows they don't have enough
tools available to them to deal with | 1:25:02 | 1:25:05 | |
this kind of international crisis?
My honourable friend speaks clearly | 1:25:05 | 1:25:14 | |
and identifies his own views on the
UN. This is not a subject we have | 1:25:14 | 1:25:18 | |
yet looked upon and as I'm
responding to a particular report I | 1:25:18 | 1:25:21 | |
don't think it would be appropriate
for me to stray into the structure | 1:25:21 | 1:25:26 | |
of the United Nations. However I
would urge the Minister to work | 1:25:26 | 1:25:30 | |
through the United Nations system to
make sure reports are fully | 1:25:30 | 1:25:34 | |
implemented, as he will remember
from our time in the committee we | 1:25:34 | 1:25:37 | |
all fully supported. My right
honourable friend... The | 1:25:37 | 1:25:48 | |
humanitarian crisis which was in
stark contrast to the letter sent to | 1:25:48 | 1:25:52 | |
the committee by the Burmese embassy
which contradicted all the evidence | 1:25:52 | 1:25:56 | |
that we talk. But does my right
honourable friend agree with me... | 1:25:56 | 1:26:02 | |
Forgive me, honourable friend, agree
with me that the underlying problem | 1:26:02 | 1:26:05 | |
here is the fact the Burmese
authority and Aung San Suu Kyi have | 1:26:05 | 1:26:12 | |
denied citizenship to the Rohingya
and that we should push them to make | 1:26:12 | 1:26:17 | |
sure the Rohingya are given a right
to remain in their homeland? The | 1:26:17 | 1:26:25 | |
honourable gentleman's cup runneth
over! Despite those promotions I | 1:26:25 | 1:26:35 | |
will address the question my right
honourable friend raises. She is of | 1:26:35 | 1:26:40 | |
course right the refusal of
citizenship to this population have | 1:26:40 | 1:26:43 | |
been a great abuse. Their
citizenship was effectively removed | 1:26:43 | 1:26:49 | |
from them by the 1980s and the
commission is very clear that | 1:26:49 | 1:26:55 | |
citizenship must be restored and
that indeed is one of the reasons we | 1:26:55 | 1:26:58 | |
are so clear, as she will remember
from our discussions, in insisting | 1:26:58 | 1:27:03 | |
the whole of the and on commission
is implemented in full. -- the whole | 1:27:03 | 1:27:10 | |
of the commission. Can I also
congratulate the chair of the | 1:27:10 | 1:27:14 | |
Foreign Affairs Committee, it's been
a very interesting committee to | 1:27:14 | 1:27:16 | |
beyond, thank you for the way he's
conducted this inquiry. Can I ask in | 1:27:16 | 1:27:22 | |
particular about the need to find a
way to open access to Rakhine | 1:27:22 | 1:27:34 | |
province? I think we have to be very
concerned about the lack of access | 1:27:34 | 1:27:39 | |
to scrutiny with the news of arrests
of two Reuters journalist believed | 1:27:39 | 1:27:46 | |
to be attempting to report on the
situation there. And the UK | 1:27:46 | 1:27:51 | |
Government with others in the
international community have to find | 1:27:51 | 1:27:55 | |
a way to ensure their racing engine
monitoring and oversight of what is | 1:27:55 | 1:28:04 | |
happening in Rakhine province. Thank
you, may I pay tribute to my right | 1:28:04 | 1:28:10 | |
honourable friend, as is being
evidenced this morning you can see | 1:28:10 | 1:28:13 | |
why such a pleasure to chair this
committee with such experts on it | 1:28:13 | 1:28:18 | |
and such intelligence and supportive
friends. My right honourable friend | 1:28:18 | 1:28:22 | |
is right then making sure the access
is possible is an essential part of | 1:28:22 | 1:28:28 | |
the Government's duty now and I
welcome the efforts of my right | 1:28:28 | 1:28:31 | |
honourable friend the Minister in
seeking that when he's been working | 1:28:31 | 1:28:36 | |
with other regional organisations. I
also welcome the support he is given | 1:28:36 | 1:28:39 | |
to the United Nations and my right
honourable friend will remember | 1:28:39 | 1:28:43 | |
indeed the discussion we had an
committee about making sure the UN | 1:28:43 | 1:28:46 | |
had that access. I visited the
refugee camp near Cox's Bazaar last | 1:28:46 | 1:28:59 | |
month and it is now equivalent in
size to the city of Bristol without | 1:28:59 | 1:29:04 | |
hospital, inadequate roads and very
few schools, and was described by | 1:29:04 | 1:29:09 | |
the UNHCR is the most congested camp
in the last 15 years of their | 1:29:09 | 1:29:13 | |
experience anywhere in the world. On
page 32 of the report, my right | 1:29:13 | 1:29:21 | |
honourable friend highlights the
fact ethnic cleansing has not been | 1:29:21 | 1:29:24 | |
recognised as an independent crime
under international law. Is he, like | 1:29:24 | 1:29:29 | |
I, surprised and disappointed by
that and would he encouraged Her | 1:29:29 | 1:29:34 | |
Majesty's government to see if she
could change that situation? The | 1:29:34 | 1:29:38 | |
honourable member for Kettering
makes an excellent point and I | 1:29:38 | 1:29:40 | |
welcome his call for ethnic
cleansing to be defined as a | 1:29:40 | 1:29:44 | |
separate crime. The 550 thousand odd
people demonstrate this is a crime | 1:29:44 | 1:29:52 | |
not only in the past but is very
much having an effect in the present | 1:29:52 | 1:29:55 | |
and I welcome the efforts he made
and his personal courage in going | 1:29:55 | 1:30:00 | |
there and being able to report back
to this House. | 1:30:00 | 1:30:08 | |
Can I commend what is an excellent
report and every word of it has | 1:30:08 | 1:30:14 | |
value. The real issue now is the
return of refugees to Myanmar. This | 1:30:14 | 1:30:23 | |
isn't possible under present
circumstances. I wonder if the | 1:30:23 | 1:30:26 | |
honourable gentleman would agree
with me the need now is for genuine | 1:30:26 | 1:30:31 | |
humanitarian assistance which means
yes from DFiD but ensuring we are | 1:30:31 | 1:30:41 | |
treating this with the gravity it
deserves. Regional response is an | 1:30:41 | 1:30:48 | |
essential part of this. The work are
majesties government has done in | 1:30:48 | 1:30:53 | |
putting up money initially will only
goes so far because it is | 1:30:53 | 1:30:56 | |
unreasonable to expect Her Majesty
's government could bear the entire | 1:30:56 | 1:31:00 | |
burden. The work the Minister is
doing regionally should be welcomed | 1:31:00 | 1:31:04 | |
because he has made sure this is a
regional response to what is frankly | 1:31:04 | 1:31:08 | |
a regional problem. Visiting the
camp was an overwhelming and | 1:31:08 | 1:31:15 | |
heartbreaking experience and all of
us have a sense of duty having met | 1:31:15 | 1:31:21 | |
the refugees who suffered the worst
experiences life has got to offer is | 1:31:21 | 1:31:26 | |
indeed to make sure they don't
become invisible. I congratulate the | 1:31:26 | 1:31:31 | |
chairman and this is very good
report. It's realistic, it doesn't | 1:31:31 | 1:31:35 | |
offer any facile solutions. Can I
suggest this is one situation where | 1:31:35 | 1:31:39 | |
the only long-term answer to their
problems is not to continue, | 1:31:39 | 1:31:48 | |
certainly we need more aid there,
it's pitiful at the moment. There is | 1:31:48 | 1:31:52 | |
a great deal being done. The Emmy
long-term solution is for a return | 1:31:52 | 1:31:56 | |
to their land -- the only long-term
solution is for a return to their | 1:31:56 | 1:32:02 | |
land in Myanmar and the only way to
do that is to give a cast-iron | 1:32:02 | 1:32:07 | |
guarantee of having Armed Forces
with them. The British Army have had | 1:32:07 | 1:32:11 | |
a fine record in operations of this
kind. My honourable friend has made | 1:32:11 | 1:32:18 | |
some very good points and I
certainly welcome his call that we | 1:32:18 | 1:32:21 | |
must support the returning refugees.
Our committee make the clear case of | 1:32:21 | 1:32:27 | |
humanitarian access being essential
before any refugees could return. We | 1:32:27 | 1:32:31 | |
were very cautious to recommend Her
Majesty's government should send | 1:32:31 | 1:32:36 | |
British soldiers over for various
historical legacy reasons, and the | 1:32:36 | 1:32:40 | |
misunderstandings that could cause
rise to. We raised with the Minister | 1:32:40 | 1:32:43 | |
and the Minister was extremely
receptive to the idea of regional | 1:32:43 | 1:32:47 | |
support. Whether that be under the
United Nations of having some form | 1:32:47 | 1:32:55 | |
of alert force or possibly even
support falls to be there with the | 1:32:55 | 1:33:00 | |
refugees as they return. Can I
congratulate my plainly honourable | 1:33:00 | 1:33:09 | |
friend on this excellent report.
Whilst Myanmar is not a member of | 1:33:09 | 1:33:13 | |
the Commonwealth, does he think
there is a role for Commonwealth | 1:33:13 | 1:33:18 | |
countries to be able to advise, help
and support so that these instances | 1:33:18 | 1:33:22 | |
don't happen in the future and we
can get over the current tragedy | 1:33:22 | 1:33:26 | |
sooner? I'm sure my honourable
friend joins me in the sadness we | 1:33:26 | 1:33:31 | |
feel that Burma is not currently
able to seek readmittance to the | 1:33:31 | 1:33:36 | |
Commonwealth because of these tragic
events that she has sadly done | 1:33:36 | 1:33:40 | |
nothing to prevent. Of course there
is a role for the Commonwealth in | 1:33:40 | 1:33:44 | |
the region and the role for
Commonwealth more widely and we | 1:33:44 | 1:33:48 | |
should also welcome the words of
Bishop Tutu in condemning the | 1:33:48 | 1:33:54 | |
silence of the State Council. It is
only voices like is that carry a | 1:33:54 | 1:33:58 | |
weight is equal to hers. Thank you.
We welcome the report from the | 1:33:58 | 1:34:07 | |
foreign affairs select committee and
agree with the conclusion that any | 1:34:07 | 1:34:11 | |
repatriation must be safe and
voluntary. Does he agree that in | 1:34:11 | 1:34:14 | |
order to ensure there is no
repatriations which doesn't meet | 1:34:14 | 1:34:21 | |
these conditions, the United Nations
High Commissioner for refugees must | 1:34:21 | 1:34:24 | |
have access on both sides of the
border? The honourable member is | 1:34:24 | 1:34:31 | |
making an extremely valid point and
we called in this report for | 1:34:31 | 1:34:33 | |
absolute access in various areas and
for the special representative of | 1:34:33 | 1:34:44 | |
the -- the special representative to
have access into the capital. It | 1:34:44 | 1:34:47 | |
needs to go further and she is right
that the representatives of the UN | 1:34:47 | 1:34:51 | |
High Commission for refugees need
access on the ground not just with | 1:34:51 | 1:34:54 | |
the government. I commend the
honourable gentleman and his | 1:34:54 | 1:34:59 | |
committee on this excellent report.
I agree that the UK bear significant | 1:34:59 | 1:35:05 | |
responsibility for the international
failure to effectively respond to | 1:35:05 | 1:35:08 | |
the crisis, considering the UK's
roll on the UN Security Council. | 1:35:08 | 1:35:13 | |
Does he agree with me that the UK
Government needs to suspend its | 1:35:13 | 1:35:17 | |
military assistance programme in the
Burnley 's region? I welcome the | 1:35:17 | 1:35:23 | |
fact that they have already done so.
Order. Let me say to the honourable | 1:35:23 | 1:35:33 | |
gentleman that I think I speak for
the House in thanking him and his | 1:35:33 | 1:35:37 | |
committee very warmly for their
ongoing work, for this report, for | 1:35:37 | 1:35:44 | |
his statement to the House today and
for his very courteous and | 1:35:44 | 1:35:49 | |
comprehensive responses to
questions. Thank you. I theorise | 1:35:49 | 1:35:58 | |
inadvertently misled the House, Mr
Speaker, during the business | 1:35:58 | 1:36:01 | |
question when I suggested that
honourable and Right honourable | 1:36:01 | 1:36:05 | |
members could enjoy the pantomime of
Dick Whittington at the Millfield | 1:36:05 | 1:36:08 | |
Theatre. Indeed that was the last
pantomime I saw there. If they wish | 1:36:08 | 1:36:14 | |
to attend the Millfield Theatre it
would be to enjoy Jack and the | 1:36:14 | 1:36:20 | |
Beanstalk. LAUGHTER I'm grateful to
the honourable lady because that is | 1:36:20 | 1:36:26 | |
an extremely helpful clarification.
Moreover in the process of offering | 1:36:26 | 1:36:29 | |
that clarification to the House the
right honourable lady has served | 1:36:29 | 1:36:33 | |
further to highlight the important
work done by and the continued | 1:36:33 | 1:36:40 | |
pleasure brought about by the
theatre which I believe to be in her | 1:36:40 | 1:36:47 | |
own constituency. Oh no it isn't!
LAUGHTER In my borough, Mr Speaker. | 1:36:47 | 1:36:58 | |
It serves by constituency. In the
honourable lady's borough. We now | 1:36:58 | 1:37:04 | |
know the important work of this
theatre is in the London Borough of | 1:37:04 | 1:37:09 | |
Enfield for which I think about the
theatre and the borough will be | 1:37:09 | 1:37:13 | |
eternally grateful. Thank you. If
there are no further points of order | 1:37:13 | 1:37:22 | |
we now come to the backbench motion
on equality of pension provision for | 1:37:22 | 1:37:28 | |
women. Theresa May Schmeichel Mr
Grahame Morris. Thank you. I would | 1:37:28 | 1:37:36 | |
like to thank the Backbench Business
Committee for granting this debate | 1:37:36 | 1:37:41 | |
and for the responses who supported
me in this application. I'd like to | 1:37:41 | 1:37:50 | |
thank the Waspi code campaign
nationally who are well represented | 1:37:50 | 1:37:53 | |
in the gallery and are involved in
protests and demonstrations outside | 1:37:53 | 1:37:59 | |
the palace in support of their
legitimate campaigns. I'll give way. | 1:37:59 | 1:38:08 | |
I'm grateful to the honourable
gentleman. Can I pay tribute to him | 1:38:08 | 1:38:11 | |
for the work is done on this issue.
He mentions there are a lot of Waspi | 1:38:11 | 1:38:16 | |
campaign is here today. Is this an
opportune time for the Minister to | 1:38:16 | 1:38:21 | |
apologise for the cross remarks he
made in Westminster Hall that they | 1:38:21 | 1:38:27 | |
could get modern apprenticeships?
I'm going to come onto some of the | 1:38:27 | 1:38:29 | |
Minister's remarks. If he did want
to take that opportunity I'm sure | 1:38:29 | 1:38:35 | |
the Waspi women would certainly
welcome such an apology. It's | 1:38:35 | 1:38:40 | |
simple, what we are asking for, or
what the campaign is asking for. | 1:38:40 | 1:38:45 | |
That is set out in the resolution
before the House a non-means tested | 1:38:45 | 1:38:50 | |
bridging pension to some 38 million
women so that they don't have to | 1:38:50 | 1:38:55 | |
live in poverty, such pension to be
paid as a percentage of the full | 1:38:55 | 1:39:01 | |
state pension and compensation
offered over the period between aged | 1:39:01 | 1:39:04 | |
60 and the new state pension age. I
give way. I'm very grateful to the | 1:39:04 | 1:39:14 | |
honourable gentleman and I
congratulate him forgetting this | 1:39:14 | 1:39:16 | |
debate before Parliament. I think we
would all agree that this is an | 1:39:16 | 1:39:20 | |
injustice that needs to be
addressed. Would he agree that we | 1:39:20 | 1:39:23 | |
have to also look at ways of how it
could be funded, and I've discovered | 1:39:23 | 1:39:29 | |
from the House of Commons library
that bringing forward the proposed | 1:39:29 | 1:39:33 | |
increase in the pension age from 67
to 68 from 2037 to 2036 would in | 1:39:33 | 1:39:40 | |
itself raise £7.5 billion
approximately which would go some | 1:39:40 | 1:39:47 | |
way to helping these women address
the injustice they face. I'm | 1:39:47 | 1:39:53 | |
grateful to the right honourable
gentleman for that intervention and | 1:39:53 | 1:39:56 | |
I want to come a little later in my
remarks to some of the proposals and | 1:39:56 | 1:40:03 | |
how this injustice may be addressed.
I'll give way. Can I congratulate my | 1:40:03 | 1:40:13 | |
honourable friend in securing this
debate and can I say, would he agree | 1:40:13 | 1:40:16 | |
with me that it is absolutely
shocking and unacceptable that the | 1:40:16 | 1:40:20 | |
Waspi campaigners have had to work
so tirelessly to get absolutely no | 1:40:20 | 1:40:25 | |
response from the government. I
completely agree with my right | 1:40:25 | 1:40:31 | |
honourable friend. We have debated
this issue many times. I think maybe | 1:40:31 | 1:40:37 | |
29 or 30 times in this place and in
the Westminster Hall. Indeed, over | 1:40:37 | 1:40:45 | |
the past few months, we've been
incredibly active. EDM 63 has 195 | 1:40:45 | 1:40:54 | |
signatures, and e-petition but was
laid before Parliament attracted | 1:40:54 | 1:41:01 | |
109,000 signatures. That number
continues to grow. We had an | 1:41:01 | 1:41:06 | |
oversubscribed Westminster Hall
debate where there were so many | 1:41:06 | 1:41:08 | |
members present they were sitting on
the window ledges... I'll give way | 1:41:08 | 1:41:13 | |
to my honourable friend. Can I first
congratulate my honourable friend | 1:41:13 | 1:41:24 | |
and securing the debate and the
tireless work he puts into the | 1:41:24 | 1:41:27 | |
cause. I certainly support the fair
transitional state pension | 1:41:27 | 1:41:34 | |
arrangements for all Waspi are
winning. They've put forward a | 1:41:34 | 1:41:38 | |
number of options for potential
solutions to provide transitional | 1:41:38 | 1:41:41 | |
arrangements for the women affected
and will he be coming to that point | 1:41:41 | 1:41:44 | |
later in his speech? Absolutely. I'm
grateful for the intervention and | 1:41:44 | 1:41:49 | |
there are a number of options and
there are things the Minister could | 1:41:49 | 1:41:52 | |
do immediately to mitigate and
alleviate the worst hardship that's | 1:41:52 | 1:41:56 | |
been suffered currently. Indeed it's
a matter of concern across the whole | 1:41:56 | 1:42:01 | |
house and the EDM and the
representations that have been made | 1:42:01 | 1:42:08 | |
from every nation, every region,
every political party in this House. | 1:42:08 | 1:42:11 | |
I'll give way. I'm very grateful to
my right honourable friend, and he's | 1:42:11 | 1:42:18 | |
making a good job of putting the
case. Can I put to him the words of | 1:42:18 | 1:42:23 | |
a retired teacher who says she was
born in July 1954 and she says, the | 1:42:23 | 1:42:31 | |
boy I sat next to in school was born
in November 1953. We left school at | 1:42:31 | 1:42:36 | |
the same time and began to pay our
National Insurance and income tax at | 1:42:36 | 1:42:41 | |
the same time, but he receives his
state pension and his 65th birthday. | 1:42:41 | 1:42:45 | |
I have to wait ten months beyond my
65th birthday, how can that be fair? | 1:42:45 | 1:42:53 | |
Hasn't she summed it up very well?
Absolutely. I'm grateful for the | 1:42:53 | 1:43:00 | |
intervention and I'm sure every
member in this House and all sides | 1:43:00 | 1:43:03 | |
of the House have got many examples
of Waspi women coming to surgeries | 1:43:03 | 1:43:11 | |
and writing and sending e-mails.
Daley, I receive heartbreaking | 1:43:11 | 1:43:18 | |
letters from my own constituents and
from further afield. E-mails from | 1:43:18 | 1:43:23 | |
women who have been suffering
extreme hardship. I'll give way. I'm | 1:43:23 | 1:43:29 | |
proud to be a signatory of the
debate as well. Can I point out | 1:43:29 | 1:43:34 | |
because so far he's been referring
to Waspi. We know there's a lot of | 1:43:34 | 1:43:38 | |
interest in this whole issue and
only some of the groups call | 1:43:38 | 1:43:42 | |
themselves Waspi. What we are
referring to is all those women born | 1:43:42 | 1:43:46 | |
in the 1950s who are suffering from
an injustice disproportionately | 1:43:46 | 1:43:50 | |
inflicted on them through the
changes to the pension qualification | 1:43:50 | 1:43:54 | |
range. Absolutely and I welcome that
intervention and acknowledge the | 1:43:54 | 1:43:59 | |
conjugation that the honourable
gentleman has made to the campaign. | 1:43:59 | 1:44:05 | |
I do agree. I'm going to give way
once more. Thank you forgiving way | 1:44:05 | 1:44:09 | |
and for all the hard work he has put
in on this issue. I'm sure he, like | 1:44:09 | 1:44:15 | |
myself, has come across a lot of
women who are telling me stories | 1:44:15 | 1:44:19 | |
about how they have based their
whole retirement plans and maybe | 1:44:19 | 1:44:22 | |
their partner has already retired,
based on what they were told and | 1:44:22 | 1:44:26 | |
assumed would be their normal
retirement age. Everyone says it's | 1:44:26 | 1:44:30 | |
just not fair. Absolutely, I
completely agree with my honourable | 1:44:30 | 1:44:35 | |
friend. Many of these women have
worked since they were 16. | 1:44:35 | 1:44:43 | |
They have signed up to a deal, they
consider it to be an agreement with | 1:44:43 | 1:44:48 | |
government and it has been cast
aside with little or no regard for | 1:44:48 | 1:44:51 | |
their financial circumstances. I'll
give away to the Gentleman. I | 1:44:51 | 1:44:57 | |
thinking for giving way and
organising this debate. He used the | 1:44:57 | 1:45:01 | |
word heartbreaking and is genuinely
is to listen to women as I have in | 1:45:01 | 1:45:05 | |
Dudley and the Black Country, who
found themselves retiring early to | 1:45:05 | 1:45:11 | |
care for the relative, in some cases
their husband and subsequently found | 1:45:11 | 1:45:17 | |
themselves or widowed and left with
no income coming in at all facing | 1:45:17 | 1:45:22 | |
the prospect of having to wait much
longer for the pension on which they | 1:45:22 | 1:45:26 | |
planned their whole future. Would
you agree with me particular | 1:45:26 | 1:45:30 | |
attention has got to be given to
women in that position? Absolutely | 1:45:30 | 1:45:35 | |
and there are things the Minister
and government can do immediately. | 1:45:35 | 1:45:39 | |
What we are doing here is creating
an unnecessary generation of women, | 1:45:39 | 1:45:44 | |
many now relying on food banks and
some are forced to sell their homes | 1:45:44 | 1:45:48 | |
and forced to rely on a benefits
system. It's degrading for them. | 1:45:48 | 1:45:53 | |
I'll give away. I thank him for
giving way. Does he agree with me | 1:45:53 | 1:46:00 | |
that the role of the trade union
movement in supporting the WASPI | 1:46:00 | 1:46:04 | |
movement has to be praised? And I
can tell you the campaign in Glasgow | 1:46:04 | 1:46:09 | |
are watching the debate live in the
union office, one is my | 1:46:09 | 1:46:14 | |
constituents, who worked until 50
years and now has to work until 65. | 1:46:14 | 1:46:25 | |
Absolutely, this is a huge injustice
that affects all regions and parts | 1:46:25 | 1:46:29 | |
of the United Kingdom. These are
hard-working decent women who have | 1:46:29 | 1:46:35 | |
contributed through the national
insurance fund and had an | 1:46:35 | 1:46:38 | |
anticipation of receiving their
state pension. I'll give away to my | 1:46:38 | 1:46:42 | |
friend. I'm very grateful for him to
give way and I want to pay tribute | 1:46:42 | 1:46:48 | |
to him for securing this debate and
all the work he does on this issue | 1:46:48 | 1:46:52 | |
and the WASPI campaign and others as
well. Would he agree with me that | 1:46:52 | 1:46:57 | |
what's happening to a lot of these
women is they are being very | 1:46:57 | 1:47:02 | |
inappropriately dealt with by both
the job centre and the benefit | 1:47:02 | 1:47:05 | |
system? I am sure my friend who
wants to know this, I had a Lady in | 1:47:05 | 1:47:11 | |
my constituency surgery last week
who had just been made redundant | 1:47:11 | 1:47:15 | |
from Walkers crisps factory. She has
a full employment and contribution | 1:47:15 | 1:47:19 | |
record but she is a really fearful
about what's going to happen to her | 1:47:19 | 1:47:23 | |
over the next few years and if she
is going to be forced into | 1:47:23 | 1:47:29 | |
inappropriate work, she doesn't know
what benefit she is going to get. | 1:47:29 | 1:47:33 | |
She is stressed and has had this
full record of contributions and | 1:47:33 | 1:47:37 | |
shouldn't she have proper
transitional arrangements and to not | 1:47:37 | 1:47:39 | |
be treated this way? Absolutely,
it's doubly relevant to me, Deputy | 1:47:39 | 1:47:48 | |
Speaker, Walkers crisps in my
constituency are closing this week | 1:47:48 | 1:47:52 | |
just before Christmas, 400 people
losing their jobs, many long serving | 1:47:52 | 1:47:56 | |
employees have worked hard, some in
their late 50s and early 60s with an | 1:47:56 | 1:48:03 | |
anticipation of receiving their
state pension. I'll give way to my | 1:48:03 | 1:48:07 | |
friend from Hartlepool. I'm grateful
to my friend and neighbour for | 1:48:07 | 1:48:12 | |
giving way and I take great pleasure
in praising him for the work he does | 1:48:12 | 1:48:17 | |
on behalf of the WASPI movement.
Would my friend agree with me that | 1:48:17 | 1:48:21 | |
in the neighbouring towns of
Hartlepool, my constituency, 5500 | 1:48:21 | 1:48:28 | |
women have suffered due to lack of
action on this matter by the | 1:48:28 | 1:48:32 | |
government, forcing them to food
banks in some cases and feeling | 1:48:32 | 1:48:35 | |
victimised in all cases? Absolutely,
and these women are disadvantaged in | 1:48:35 | 1:48:41 | |
many ways, often weighs many members
don't realise. Issues have been | 1:48:41 | 1:48:46 | |
raised with me about free bus
passes. Living outside of London, | 1:48:46 | 1:48:53 | |
people from the regions, the
north-east and south-west, many of | 1:48:53 | 1:48:57 | |
these women don't drive. So, without
free bus passes... I'll give away to | 1:48:57 | 1:49:03 | |
the Lady. I appreciate the Gentleman
giving way. Could I ask him and | 1:49:03 | 1:49:12 | |
other members on the seats opposite,
how much fasted they make when | 1:49:12 | 1:49:16 | |
Gordon Brown brought this change in?
How much fuss? I think the issue we | 1:49:16 | 1:49:25 | |
need to address is where we are now.
There are two... Well, you've raised | 1:49:25 | 1:49:30 | |
a suggestion. You've raised a
question. Do we think it was wrong? | 1:49:30 | 1:49:38 | |
And I think that the 1995 changes
were incorrect. Please let me answer | 1:49:38 | 1:49:43 | |
this and I will take your
intervention. But what happened in | 1:49:43 | 1:49:49 | |
the 2011 act, those changes which
were originally spread over a longer | 1:49:49 | 1:49:56 | |
period were expedited. I want to
quote the former pensions Minister, | 1:49:56 | 1:50:02 | |
Stephen Webber who elaborates on
this point. I indicated I give away | 1:50:02 | 1:50:06 | |
to the Gentleman but I want to take
as many interventions as I can. Do | 1:50:06 | 1:50:11 | |
you mind, because I did indicate and
then I'll accept the intervention. I | 1:50:11 | 1:50:16 | |
thank the member and commend him for
his speech, just to clarify, B 1995 | 1:50:16 | 1:50:23 | |
pension act was put through by a
Tory government and the 2011 pension | 1:50:23 | 1:50:28 | |
act was put through by a Tory
coalition so why she references | 1:50:28 | 1:50:33 | |
Gordon Brown is a mystery. I'll give
away to the Minister. I'm most | 1:50:33 | 1:50:41 | |
grateful to the Gentleman for
letting me intervene, but he will be | 1:50:41 | 1:50:46 | |
aware that in 2007, after ten years
of a Labour government they | 1:50:46 | 1:50:52 | |
considered all matters on pensions
legislation and passed the 2007 act | 1:50:52 | 1:50:57 | |
and did have all consideration of
the matters on this, so had total | 1:50:57 | 1:51:02 | |
capacity in their 13 years of power
to do something they now say it was | 1:51:02 | 1:51:06 | |
not appropriate to do. With respect,
there is a legitimate thing to | 1:51:06 | 1:51:09 | |
answer on this. I will, but I just
want to have an opportunity to | 1:51:09 | 1:51:15 | |
respond to that. What we need to do
is recognise the injustice that | 1:51:15 | 1:51:19 | |
these women face and there were many
missed opportunities. In the 2011 | 1:51:19 | 1:51:27 | |
act, it accelerated the changes no
doubt, the former pensions Minister | 1:51:27 | 1:51:31 | |
Stephen Webber is quoted extensively
as indicating that was the case and | 1:51:31 | 1:51:37 | |
when he was writing out on behalf of
the coalition governance, the | 1:51:37 | 1:51:43 | |
response he received from many WASPI
women, his comment was that he was | 1:51:43 | 1:51:47 | |
not only informing them of a change
of one year brought about by the | 1:51:47 | 1:51:53 | |
2011 act, but for the first time
about the earlier changes. So in | 1:51:53 | 1:51:59 | |
fact, their state pension retirement
age was being extended by six years | 1:51:59 | 1:52:02 | |
in some cases. I'll give away to
her. I thank him for giving way. As | 1:52:02 | 1:52:09 | |
someone who was one years old when
the 95 act came into effect but is | 1:52:09 | 1:52:13 | |
sitting here like everyone else, can
I say to all members that in this | 1:52:13 | 1:52:19 | |
debate, can we get past the party
political nonsense of whose fault it | 1:52:19 | 1:52:22 | |
is? The point is this mess has been
going on for long enough, this is | 1:52:22 | 1:52:27 | |
the government in charge just now,
the problem has not gone away and it | 1:52:27 | 1:52:31 | |
is this government that needs to
deal with it. Absolutely, and there | 1:52:31 | 1:52:35 | |
are things the government could do
immediately to mitigate for the | 1:52:35 | 1:52:39 | |
worst cases of hardship. For
example, and I'll get you in a | 1:52:39 | 1:52:44 | |
moment. I know many members want to
contribute and place things on | 1:52:44 | 1:52:48 | |
record. Can I mention also be winter
fuel allowance that can be worth up | 1:52:48 | 1:52:54 | |
to £300 and if the Minister is
looking for suggestions, that would | 1:52:54 | 1:52:57 | |
be a decent staff of government, to
give the WASPI women this payment | 1:52:57 | 1:53:02 | |
each year which would enable them to
have some level of comfort during | 1:53:02 | 1:53:05 | |
this cold winter weather when many
have to choose in my region between | 1:53:05 | 1:53:09 | |
heating... I'm grateful for him and
he is right to say the problems date | 1:53:09 | 1:53:14 | |
all the way from 95 and through
three or more governments. But can I | 1:53:14 | 1:53:19 | |
ask him, does he agree what a lot of
my constituents feel, this is as | 1:53:19 | 1:53:24 | |
much to do with communication as it
is to do with policy? Many of my | 1:53:24 | 1:53:30 | |
women who are affected said if they
had known in time and knowing what | 1:53:30 | 1:53:33 | |
the effects of the changes were,
they wouldn't have been able to | 1:53:33 | 1:53:37 | |
respond -- would have been able.
Would he agree? I think that's a | 1:53:37 | 1:53:42 | |
completely reasonable point the
Gentleman makes. I'm sure there is | 1:53:42 | 1:53:46 | |
common cause on all sides of the
House, I am looking at the Minister | 1:53:46 | 1:53:49 | |
and hoping common sense can prevail.
There has to be at knowledge meant | 1:53:49 | 1:53:54 | |
there was poor communication and I'm
sure the Minister is aware there is | 1:53:54 | 1:53:58 | |
a collective action put forward by
the WASPI women, through binding and | 1:53:58 | 1:54:04 | |
solicitors. And there is a
possibility they could be a case of | 1:54:04 | 1:54:11 | |
maladministration if found in their
favour. I'll give way. The | 1:54:11 | 1:54:15 | |
constituents that have been to see
me, and I've been listening | 1:54:15 | 1:54:19 | |
carefully to what he says and he
seems to know what he's talking | 1:54:19 | 1:54:21 | |
about. Could he give an idea of how
much this will cost? Because I | 1:54:21 | 1:54:28 | |
suspect there is a whole range of
different amounts of money but I | 1:54:28 | 1:54:31 | |
would be curious to know what he
thinks would be the right amount of | 1:54:31 | 1:54:35 | |
money to go some way to putting this
right. There are things we could do | 1:54:35 | 1:54:41 | |
immediately, I think there are
things the government and the | 1:54:41 | 1:54:43 | |
Minister could do immediately. I
want to come to those later on and | 1:54:43 | 1:54:48 | |
have set them out in this sequential
way and there are suggestions about | 1:54:48 | 1:54:53 | |
immediately extending pensions
credit to the group. I don't have | 1:54:53 | 1:54:56 | |
the costings for that. I mentioned
extending... 800 million, and my | 1:54:56 | 1:55:04 | |
front bench informs me from a
sedentary position. There are things | 1:55:04 | 1:55:08 | |
that could be done in relation to
winter fuel allowance and bus passes | 1:55:08 | 1:55:12 | |
that offer immediate help to these
women. Can I say, the fundamental | 1:55:12 | 1:55:16 | |
point of former pensions Minister
Stephen Webber said and I alluded to | 1:55:16 | 1:55:21 | |
some moments ago in response as well
to the Minister's intervention, this | 1:55:21 | 1:55:25 | |
is what he said. "The 2011 act,
which he was responsible for as | 1:55:25 | 1:55:33 | |
Minister didn't add more than 18
months to the People's pensions age, | 1:55:33 | 1:55:37 | |
typically they added 12 months. But
when we did write to people, we | 1:55:37 | 1:55:43 | |
wrote to them to tell them what
changes we had made. This was the | 1:55:43 | 1:55:47 | |
first time they had heard about the
first changes, so instead of me | 1:55:47 | 1:55:51 | |
writing to them to tell them that
was an extra year on the pension | 1:55:51 | 1:55:54 | |
age, we were effectively turning
them they had six extra years added | 1:55:54 | 1:55:58 | |
to their pension age". Which of
course is why they are outraged, and | 1:55:58 | 1:56:03 | |
we are hopefully having a sensible
and constructive, meaningful debate, | 1:56:03 | 1:56:09 | |
but make no mistake, there is real
hardship and outrage out there. I'll | 1:56:09 | 1:56:13 | |
give away. Thank you, and he is
setting out the case beautifully and | 1:56:13 | 1:56:19 | |
I shall congratulate him on getting
this debate organised. Can I say to | 1:56:19 | 1:56:24 | |
him as someone who represents a
retirement town, I have had many | 1:56:24 | 1:56:28 | |
local constituents making this
point, most taking a slightly | 1:56:28 | 1:56:31 | |
different point of view. They don't
object to the principle of | 1:56:31 | 1:56:36 | |
equalisation of pension paid at all,
they think it is just and right, but | 1:56:36 | 1:56:40 | |
they are upset about not being
properly advised and didn't have | 1:56:40 | 1:56:43 | |
time to plan early enough in their
working careers, and that is the | 1:56:43 | 1:56:47 | |
injustice they are coming to meet
with most strongly. Absolutely, | 1:56:47 | 1:56:51 | |
Madam Deputy Speaker and the Right
Honourable Gentleman with typical | 1:56:51 | 1:56:58 | |
alacrity has hit the nail on the
head. Nevertheless, there is an | 1:56:58 | 1:57:03 | |
injustice that needs to be rectified
and the party of government needs to | 1:57:03 | 1:57:06 | |
do that. I'm going to give away a
couple more times and make more | 1:57:06 | 1:57:10 | |
progress. I'll give away to the
Gentleman and then once more. I'm | 1:57:10 | 1:57:14 | |
grateful for him for giving way and
for securing this debate. Is it his | 1:57:14 | 1:57:20 | |
contention that the changes in 95
were wrong or in 2011 were wrong? | 1:57:20 | 1:57:26 | |
Many have met me and feel the 2011
changes were just too rapid. I think | 1:57:26 | 1:57:32 | |
the fundamental point made by on
rubble -- members from the | 1:57:32 | 1:57:39 | |
government side is lack of notice in
relation to the 1995 changes and | 1:57:39 | 1:57:44 | |
failure to give any notice at all in
some cases. There is an issue there | 1:57:44 | 1:57:49 | |
of communication. I do believe that
the various groups, and there are a | 1:57:49 | 1:57:56 | |
number who are campaigning around
this issue, I do believe there is a | 1:57:56 | 1:58:00 | |
general accident is of the need to
wear equalised state retirement | 1:58:00 | 1:58:09 | |
pension age, we are not in
disagreement about. But the issue is | 1:58:09 | 1:58:13 | |
the phasing and acceleration of the
phasing of the original changes ROM | 1:58:13 | 1:58:16 | |
1995. I'll give away. -- from 95. I
don't want to disagree with his | 1:58:16 | 1:58:24 | |
speech but wouldn't he agreed the
equalisation of pension age for this | 1:58:24 | 1:58:28 | |
group of women isn't fair? Because
in the area they lived, many had to | 1:58:28 | 1:58:33 | |
be responsible for their children,
had to undermine their career with a | 1:58:33 | 1:58:38 | |
lower wages and didn't make
allowances for their pensions and | 1:58:38 | 1:58:41 | |
have since suffered divorce or
break-up. Many coming to me in | 1:58:41 | 1:58:46 | |
Swansea are literally becoming
impoverished because of this | 1:58:46 | 1:58:49 | |
changed. It's all very well imagine
in a utopia where there is equal | 1:58:49 | 1:58:53 | |
opportunity in the where that would
justify an equal pension age but | 1:58:53 | 1:58:58 | |
that isn't what happened to these
women. And it's quite wrong to say | 1:58:58 | 1:59:04 | |
it's just about telling them.
Absolutely, and the issue as well is | 1:59:04 | 1:59:10 | |
falling off the end of a cliff. The
lack of transitional relief to the | 1:59:10 | 1:59:17 | |
women who were affected and there
are many examples. People who have | 1:59:17 | 1:59:22 | |
retired, made retirement plans at 60
in order to care for elderly | 1:59:22 | 1:59:29 | |
relatives, women working in very
arduous employment, physically | 1:59:29 | 1:59:33 | |
demanding, who really can't work
beyond 60. | 1:59:33 | 1:59:39 | |
It is a huge injustice affecting 3.8
million women in this country which | 1:59:39 | 1:59:45 | |
needs to be addressed. My honourable
friend is being very generous in | 1:59:45 | 1:59:49 | |
giving way for that just to support
that point I can I quote from a | 1:59:49 | 1:59:54 | |
woman from Knowsley who was born in
June, 1955. She said my elderly | 1:59:54 | 1:59:59 | |
mother had a stroke and I
subsequently became her full-time | 1:59:59 | 2:00:02 | |
carer for that the last ten years of
her life were particularly difficult | 2:00:02 | 2:00:06 | |
as she needed 24 hour care provided
by me. My own health has suffered | 2:00:06 | 2:00:11 | |
greatly due to the added pressure
and I now find myself unable to work | 2:00:11 | 2:00:16 | |
due to ill-health and, at an age
when I should be receiving my state | 2:00:16 | 2:00:22 | |
pension, and forced to attend
regular appointments at the DWP to | 2:00:22 | 2:00:28 | |
ascertain my entitlement to ESA.
This is, she says, soul destroying. | 2:00:28 | 2:00:33 | |
Absolutely. I make no criticism
whatsoever of the honourable | 2:00:33 | 2:00:43 | |
gentleman for Easington who is
making a very genuine speech and has | 2:00:43 | 2:00:47 | |
a great many points to cover. He has
taken a lot of interventions. But I | 2:00:47 | 2:00:55 | |
do make criticism of people who have
made interventions and will not then | 2:00:55 | 2:01:00 | |
remain for the rest of this debate
because the convention is that the | 2:01:00 | 2:01:05 | |
honourable gentleman introducing the
debate should have approximately 15 | 2:01:05 | 2:01:09 | |
minutes. Now, he has so far had a
great deal more than that. I'm not | 2:01:09 | 2:01:15 | |
blaming him. He has been very decent
in taking points from other people, | 2:01:15 | 2:01:19 | |
which is good for the pace of the
debate. But the people who are | 2:01:19 | 2:01:23 | |
making interventions and who will
then just leave the chamber are | 2:01:23 | 2:01:29 | |
preventing some of the 32 people who
have indicated to me that they wish | 2:01:29 | 2:01:33 | |
to speak in this debate from having
the chance to do so. I am asking for | 2:01:33 | 2:01:38 | |
a bit of honour. No more
interventions unless it is from | 2:01:38 | 2:01:41 | |
people who will remain for the whole
of the debate. The honourable | 2:01:41 | 2:01:46 | |
gentleman for Easington ought to
bring his remarks to a conclusion | 2:01:46 | 2:01:49 | |
soon but I'm not going to pressurise
him too much because it is not his | 2:01:49 | 2:01:54 | |
fault, it is other people's fault
that he is in this position. I'm | 2:01:54 | 2:02:03 | |
grateful for your guidance. I will
press on. I recognise many members | 2:02:03 | 2:02:06 | |
wish to speak in the debate. This is
a time sensitive issue and the | 2:02:06 | 2:02:08 | |
Government must understand it. I
believe, as my honourable friend has | 2:02:08 | 2:02:13 | |
indicated, we need to work
cross-party to find a solution. If | 2:02:13 | 2:02:17 | |
the Government is not able to do
that, I am afraid you will be | 2:02:17 | 2:02:20 | |
letting down a whole generation of
women who will be denied a fair deal | 2:02:20 | 2:02:25 | |
in relation to the state pension. In
Easington are 4542 women who are | 2:02:25 | 2:02:32 | |
affected. The campaign is looking
for justice and not just warm words. | 2:02:32 | 2:02:37 | |
The suggestion of early access to a
pension credit made by my own front | 2:02:37 | 2:02:44 | |
bench is a good start and could be
done immediately. As a stand-alone | 2:02:44 | 2:02:48 | |
option, it does not take into
account that all the 1950s women | 2:02:48 | 2:02:53 | |
have suffered maladministration and
a loss of income and all deserve | 2:02:53 | 2:02:56 | |
some recompense. The suggestion put
forward by other honourable members | 2:02:56 | 2:03:03 | |
of an actuarial reduced pension for
life asks the women who have been | 2:03:03 | 2:03:08 | |
discriminated against a bear the
cost of putting this mistake right, | 2:03:08 | 2:03:13 | |
which was not their fault in the
first place. It condemns women to | 2:03:13 | 2:03:18 | |
retirement in pension poverty, with
all its problems of greater reliance | 2:03:18 | 2:03:21 | |
on benefits. Arrangements that only
address the additional state pension | 2:03:21 | 2:03:28 | |
age increases imposed by the 2011
act will start again they are not | 2:03:28 | 2:03:34 | |
good enough. There are faults with
the application of the 1995 act and | 2:03:34 | 2:03:40 | |
I do think that the
maladministration suffered by these | 2:03:40 | 2:03:44 | |
Waspi women is an issue that the
Government will have to address | 2:03:44 | 2:03:49 | |
sooner or later. They need
recompense and they need to take | 2:03:49 | 2:03:52 | |
into account the solution that will
bring relief to all of the women | 2:03:52 | 2:03:57 | |
affected. The Government has
repeatedly stated that it is | 2:03:57 | 2:04:04 | |
committed to supporting people aged
50 years and over to remain in and | 2:04:04 | 2:04:08 | |
return to work. There are several
policies and initiatives which have | 2:04:08 | 2:04:12 | |
been put forward to support people
to work for longer, such as older | 2:04:12 | 2:04:18 | |
People's champions in Jobcentres,
lifelong learning and apprenticeship | 2:04:18 | 2:04:22 | |
opportunities for people of all
ages. But I do think suggestions | 2:04:22 | 2:04:26 | |
completely disregard the issues
which are at the very heart of the | 2:04:26 | 2:04:32 | |
Waspi campaign. In reality, they are
completely unworkable for the | 2:04:32 | 2:04:37 | |
majority of Waspi women but such is
the case highlighted by my | 2:04:37 | 2:04:41 | |
honourable friend for the City of
Durham. May I also add I was | 2:04:41 | 2:04:45 | |
incredibly disappointed that the
budget didn't offer any form of | 2:04:45 | 2:04:50 | |
help, any form of relief, to the
Waspi women? I do know that some | 2:04:50 | 2:04:55 | |
other members opposite, in also
Sarah tea, made representations to | 2:04:55 | 2:04:58 | |
Chancellor. I was very disappointed
that the Chancellor and the Prime | 2:04:58 | 2:05:05 | |
Minister did not respond. -- in all
sincerity. I am rather in credit | 2:05:05 | 2:05:10 | |
list is that the Labour Party, Her
Majesty's opposition, are attacked | 2:05:10 | 2:05:15 | |
for being weak on women's issues by
the Prime Minister. I am curious to | 2:05:15 | 2:05:19 | |
find out whether the Prime Minister
who I understand is a Waspi woman, | 2:05:19 | 2:05:26 | |
did actually received notification
from the DWP about the change in | 2:05:26 | 2:05:30 | |
pension arrangements. Quite simply,
women born in the 1950s were not | 2:05:30 | 2:05:35 | |
given sufficient notice by the
Government that their state | 2:05:35 | 2:05:37 | |
retirement age would being greasing.
And I do want to leave time for | 2:05:37 | 2:05:43 | |
other members to make contributions.
-- would be increasing. I could go | 2:05:43 | 2:05:48 | |
on to make more specific examples
but I do not intend to do that. | 2:05:48 | 2:05:52 | |
Thank you very much. I would like to
move the motion. The question is, as | 2:05:52 | 2:05:59 | |
on the order paper. As I indicated
there are a great many people who | 2:05:59 | 2:06:03 | |
wish to speak. We will have to start
with a time limit of six minutes. | 2:06:03 | 2:06:09 | |
Ann Marie Trevelyan. Thank you. I
would like to thank my North East | 2:06:09 | 2:06:15 | |
colleague, the member for Easington,
for securing this important debate | 2:06:15 | 2:06:20 | |
yesterday, in Parliament, we
celebrated the centenary of the | 2:06:20 | 2:06:22 | |
formation of the women's Royal Navy
service. We celebrated and | 2:06:22 | 2:06:26 | |
remembered the service and sacrifice
of women who have given so much to | 2:06:26 | 2:06:29 | |
our nation. Today we are yet again
debating the plight of 3.8 million | 2:06:29 | 2:06:35 | |
women from across the United
Kingdom, who have beaten financially | 2:06:35 | 2:06:39 | |
impacted by the lack of notice of
pension increases. -- who have been. | 2:06:39 | 2:06:45 | |
They have quietly contributed to our
nation's economic growth throughout | 2:06:45 | 2:06:49 | |
their working lives in paid work,
alongside providing the bedrock of | 2:06:49 | 2:06:54 | |
which our families and children
depend through unpaid parental | 2:06:54 | 2:07:00 | |
duties, without question. Women who
have created one of the biggest | 2:07:00 | 2:07:03 | |
campaigns we have witnessed in many
years will stop governments of all | 2:07:03 | 2:07:07 | |
colours, over two decades, have
failed them. As a believer in the | 2:07:07 | 2:07:11 | |
power of people peacefully coming
together to campaign for change are | 2:07:11 | 2:07:14 | |
working together for what they
believe is right, I am completely | 2:07:14 | 2:07:18 | |
supportive of the Waspi women from
across our country, many here today, | 2:07:18 | 2:07:23 | |
including two dedicated and
effective campaigners from my own | 2:07:23 | 2:07:27 | |
constituency who are leading this
campaign. They are giving up all | 2:07:27 | 2:07:38 | |
their time to voice the concerns of
my 6200 Berwick-upon-Tweed Waspi | 2:07:38 | 2:07:41 | |
constituents, the 23,800 Waspi women
across Northumberland and the | 2:07:41 | 2:07:45 | |
thousands across our four nations we
need to remember that all the Waspi | 2:07:45 | 2:07:49 | |
women have served our nation in many
different forms and guises. We have | 2:07:49 | 2:07:54 | |
military service personnel, teachers
and the doctors, nurses and | 2:07:54 | 2:07:58 | |
midwives, accountants, farmers were
lawyers, office workers. They are | 2:07:58 | 2:08:01 | |
just the ones who have come to me
from my constituency are many | 2:08:01 | 2:08:07 | |
others. They have been the backbones
of our economy since they started | 2:08:07 | 2:08:10 | |
work in the 1960s. They have
provided the building blocks which | 2:08:10 | 2:08:14 | |
have taken our country through
strong economic times and the hard | 2:08:14 | 2:08:17 | |
ones. We need to keep them in mind
during this debate, not just as one | 2:08:17 | 2:08:22 | |
big story, but remembering each
individual stories of each Waspi | 2:08:22 | 2:08:28 | |
women who have come into our
surgeries with problems of hardship. | 2:08:28 | 2:08:33 | |
I would like to reflect on some of
the problems might Waspi women face | 2:08:33 | 2:08:39 | |
living in Northumberland for that
there is a strong spirit of | 2:08:39 | 2:08:42 | |
independence and self sufficiently
in my patch. I sit come to be with | 2:08:42 | 2:08:49 | |
my Scottish friend today. A long
history of hard work, regardless of | 2:08:49 | 2:08:53 | |
whether, of which we have much
remains the Walmart of rural | 2:08:53 | 2:08:58 | |
Northumberland this is particularly
clear in the strength of the women | 2:08:58 | 2:09:01 | |
who have been to see me you have
raised families alongside a lifetime | 2:09:01 | 2:09:05 | |
of hard work and have sacrificed to
ensure the future generation has a | 2:09:05 | 2:09:09 | |
better life than the previous one.
It is very hard for some women who | 2:09:09 | 2:09:13 | |
have explained this to me in great
detail for ask -- to ask for | 2:09:13 | 2:09:19 | |
benefits to survive. They were told
they would be receiving the state | 2:09:19 | 2:09:23 | |
pension they had paid into. It has
now been altered but without due | 2:09:23 | 2:09:26 | |
time for them to prepare. I
recognise the type of people she is | 2:09:26 | 2:09:34 | |
referring to. There are genuine
cases of hardship and women who | 2:09:34 | 2:09:38 | |
clearly feel they have been
mis-communicated to and, as a | 2:09:38 | 2:09:43 | |
result, are facing hardship. I would
ask her to continue in her cause. I | 2:09:43 | 2:09:49 | |
thank my honourable friend the that
intervention. There may be 3.8 | 2:09:49 | 2:09:53 | |
million of them but these 3.8
individual across our nations. These | 2:09:53 | 2:09:59 | |
women have worked hard all the lies
that there are incredibly difficult | 2:09:59 | 2:10:03 | |
circumstances where they are
struggling to survive on what they | 2:10:03 | 2:10:06 | |
have full because of a lack of
notice to the changes in pensionable | 2:10:06 | 2:10:10 | |
age, it means financial planning has
been thrown entirely out of kilter. | 2:10:10 | 2:10:14 | |
These dishes are exacerbated by the
intrinsic problems one faces inroad | 2:10:14 | 2:10:18 | |
areas for the job opportunities can
be limited and I have met with | 2:10:18 | 2:10:23 | |
constituents who face age
discrimination in trying to get back | 2:10:23 | 2:10:26 | |
into the workplace because of these
changes that these challenges | 2:10:26 | 2:10:29 | |
compounded by the limited or
nonexistent role or public | 2:10:29 | 2:10:34 | |
transport. Collectivity can be
extremely poor for some people who | 2:10:34 | 2:10:37 | |
live many miles from a bus stop.
Those without a car was severely | 2:10:37 | 2:10:42 | |
restricted. The stories of financial
adversity faced by my constituents | 2:10:42 | 2:10:48 | |
has been beyond frustrating to
listen to stop finding the | 2:10:48 | 2:10:52 | |
Department for Work and Pensions
unwilling to engage with those of us | 2:10:52 | 2:10:55 | |
who have brought together your
Parliamentary group for the Waspi | 2:10:55 | 2:10:58 | |
women to try to build a relationship
for the 3.8 million women. Every | 2:10:58 | 2:11:03 | |
case is unique. Each woman's
financial situation is different. We | 2:11:03 | 2:11:07 | |
need to treat each one on its merits
but I would urge the DWP and | 2:11:07 | 2:11:11 | |
ministers that this needs to be
about how we treat these women. Too | 2:11:11 | 2:11:17 | |
many women have told me about the
efficiency and inconsistency in | 2:11:17 | 2:11:22 | |
treatment by the Department. I would
be most grateful for the Pensions | 2:11:22 | 2:11:25 | |
Minister to tackle the impasse this
campaign seems to have reached in | 2:11:25 | 2:11:30 | |
his comments later today got up I
have tried hard to bring all parties | 2:11:30 | 2:11:35 | |
together for a considered and open
discussion in order to bring | 2:11:35 | 2:11:39 | |
progress to the historic failings.
So far I have been unsuccessful. The | 2:11:39 | 2:11:44 | |
key question to me is, whatever the
fading in communication about the | 2:11:44 | 2:11:47 | |
change to be pensionable ages start
late, and regardless of which | 2:11:47 | 2:11:51 | |
government of whichever colour over
the last 20 years has fell to get | 2:11:51 | 2:11:54 | |
this right, how do we now start to
work together, to listen to the | 2:11:54 | 2:11:59 | |
Parliamentary ombudsman and tackle
the failure to deal with complaints | 2:11:59 | 2:12:03 | |
dealt with by the Waspi women? The
Department has set into place | 2:12:03 | 2:12:08 | |
rigorous processes for future
pension age changes, which I yet no | 2:12:08 | 2:12:12 | |
doubt to come. I want to be certain
that we have got, whoever is in | 2:12:12 | 2:12:20 | |
government, a department that can be
absolutely comfortable and know they | 2:12:20 | 2:12:24 | |
have a robust process so this can
never happen again. Women rarely | 2:12:24 | 2:12:29 | |
push themselves forwards. They want
to get on with life and look after | 2:12:29 | 2:12:33 | |
their families. This situation has
driven them to gather together and | 2:12:33 | 2:12:37 | |
speak as one voice on behalf of each
other, as much as for themselves. It | 2:12:37 | 2:12:42 | |
behoves us as their members of
Parliament and the Government asked | 2:12:42 | 2:12:47 | |
to write historic failings to listen
and work with my constituents to | 2:12:47 | 2:12:51 | |
find a fair and honest solution. I
urge the minister to meet with me | 2:12:51 | 2:12:56 | |
and my Northumbrian Waspi ladies to
start that process in the spirit of | 2:12:56 | 2:13:00 | |
conciliation and understanding. Like
many in this chamber, I have taken | 2:13:00 | 2:13:10 | |
part in about seven debates I can
think of over the last two or three | 2:13:10 | 2:13:14 | |
years and still the Gutman has not
actually done anything about it, nor | 2:13:14 | 2:13:18 | |
have they listened to what has been
said. -- the Government. It is not | 2:13:18 | 2:13:23 | |
my intention today to rehash all the
arguments we have put over the last | 2:13:23 | 2:13:28 | |
seven or eight debates. Can I say
right at the start that we have to | 2:13:28 | 2:13:34 | |
congratulate the tenacity of the
Waspi women in staying on course to | 2:13:34 | 2:13:40 | |
get justice? Can I take the
opportunity to congratulate the | 2:13:40 | 2:13:45 | |
Waspi women from Coventry who have
travelled down here today and the | 2:13:45 | 2:13:48 | |
other women who have come from all
parts of the country. They should be | 2:13:48 | 2:13:53 | |
congratulated on that. Some of them
have had to do it at their own | 2:13:53 | 2:13:56 | |
expense. What I want to do is pick
up one or two points that I think | 2:13:56 | 2:14:00 | |
really should be emphasised. The
Government had a golden opportunity | 2:14:00 | 2:14:06 | |
in the budget to do something about
it. They could have made some sort | 2:14:06 | 2:14:11 | |
of gesture as a halfway house, as it
were, to achieving what the Waspi | 2:14:11 | 2:14:17 | |
women wanted to achieve. The
Government totally ignored it. At | 2:14:17 | 2:14:21 | |
the same time, they tell the public
they want to listen to the public | 2:14:21 | 2:14:24 | |
and the public themselves and a
whole range of issues. The | 2:14:24 | 2:14:30 | |
Government has used austerities in
some ways to justify not taking any | 2:14:30 | 2:14:35 | |
action regarding the help for Waspi
women. If they can spend over 50 | 2:14:35 | 2:14:40 | |
billion and 60 billion on high-speed
rayal I am sure they can look at | 2:14:40 | 2:14:46 | |
spending the money to help these
women. These women were not given | 2:14:46 | 2:14:50 | |
time to plan for their retirement.
That is the tragedy about it. It is | 2:14:50 | 2:14:56 | |
important to emphasise this point.
Somebody suggested earlier that was | 2:14:56 | 2:15:00 | |
not the real point. It is the real
point, along with a resolution to | 2:15:00 | 2:15:04 | |
the problem. Those are the two main
points. There was suggestion as well | 2:15:04 | 2:15:10 | |
that Gordon Brown somehow had
something to do with this. We all | 2:15:10 | 2:15:13 | |
know that is not true. We will not
dwell too much on that. Suffice to | 2:15:13 | 2:15:18 | |
say it was a John Major government
that introduced this and members | 2:15:18 | 2:15:21 | |
should bear that in mind. We should
also bear in mind that 53% of the | 2:15:21 | 2:15:26 | |
Waspi women actually rely on their
pensions to make ends meet. | 2:15:26 | 2:15:32 | |
Very often many of them look after
elderly parents. Sometimes they've | 2:15:34 | 2:15:42 | |
got children who actually suffer
from disabilities. People tend to | 2:15:42 | 2:15:46 | |
forget, a lot of these women look
after their children who are now | 2:15:46 | 2:15:51 | |
grown up, probably in their 20s.
They have to look after them and | 2:15:51 | 2:15:55 | |
there is an organisation in Coventry
that does that without any help. I | 2:15:55 | 2:16:00 | |
thank him for giving way, I know
that and Potter, my constituent from | 2:16:00 | 2:16:08 | |
Glasgow and Lanarkshire, who is
watching from home, as well as what | 2:16:08 | 2:16:14 | |
he mentions, many of these women had
to fight for equal pay and work | 2:16:14 | 2:16:19 | |
highly physically demanding work.
It's offensive when the government | 2:16:19 | 2:16:24 | |
on the opposite benches suggests
they should take up apprenticeships | 2:16:24 | 2:16:27 | |
to fill the gap. I was going to come
onto that because in the debate last | 2:16:27 | 2:16:33 | |
week, it was suggested that WASPI
women could deal with | 2:16:33 | 2:16:36 | |
apprenticeships. I remember that
suggestion in that debate as I'm | 2:16:36 | 2:16:41 | |
sure others do and makes you wonder
whether the government party really | 2:16:41 | 2:16:46 | |
takes this seriously. When we look
at the general situation that | 2:16:46 | 2:16:57 | |
affects women, we should remember to
broaden this out. For example, this | 2:16:57 | 2:17:01 | |
is the government that wants to
support women, we shouldn't lose | 2:17:01 | 2:17:06 | |
track of that. Looking at the
taxation adjustments, over the last | 2:17:06 | 2:17:09 | |
couple of budgets, in actual fact
with austerity, women generally have | 2:17:09 | 2:17:16 | |
contributed 14 billion in tax
adjustments. Think about that, so | 2:17:16 | 2:17:21 | |
it's not just the WASPI women I've
talked about but women in general | 2:17:21 | 2:17:24 | |
terms. Yet this government says it
supports women and when the chance | 2:17:24 | 2:17:30 | |
comes to put their money where their
mouth is, they don't do that. I have | 2:17:30 | 2:17:34 | |
spoken to some members recently when
some of the banks when women retire, | 2:17:34 | 2:17:42 | |
the banks would dock their private
pension from their state pension. | 2:17:42 | 2:17:47 | |
Some may have signed a resolution,
an early day motion around that and | 2:17:47 | 2:17:50 | |
it's an issue we are going to
pursue. So, to finish, because I | 2:17:50 | 2:17:56 | |
know a lot of other people want to
get in, I'll say this. The classic | 2:17:56 | 2:18:01 | |
example of this government's
meaningless words to women, if you | 2:18:01 | 2:18:07 | |
look at the women's refuges and the
funding that has been cut from them, | 2:18:07 | 2:18:11 | |
and you know these refugees are very
often a haven for women who have | 2:18:11 | 2:18:18 | |
been abused, assaulted and sometimes
raped. The government should think | 2:18:18 | 2:18:22 | |
about whether it really supports
women. Thank you very much, Madam | 2:18:22 | 2:18:26 | |
Deputy Speaker. Scott Mann. Thank
you, Madam Deputy Speaker and it's a | 2:18:26 | 2:18:34 | |
pleasure to follow the Right
Honourable member for Coventry South | 2:18:34 | 2:18:38 | |
and can I congratulate the member
for Easington for bringing forward | 2:18:38 | 2:18:42 | |
this debate today. I speak on behalf
of my North Cornwall women who I | 2:18:42 | 2:18:48 | |
have met numerous times during
surgeries and different events in my | 2:18:48 | 2:18:52 | |
last two and a half years. I
presented a petition on their behalf | 2:18:52 | 2:18:56 | |
last year and many have come to see
me at the surgery in my towns and | 2:18:56 | 2:19:00 | |
villages to express their concern of
this challenging times many of these | 2:19:00 | 2:19:06 | |
people are facing. Other members
have alluded to some of those | 2:19:06 | 2:19:12 | |
challenges today, most coming to see
me are those who have worked there | 2:19:12 | 2:19:15 | |
in tyre life and they might well own
their own home and not be in a | 2:19:15 | 2:19:20 | |
position to make that transition for
18 months. I am a supporter of | 2:19:20 | 2:19:24 | |
transitional members for our WASPI
women and I believe there is a | 2:19:24 | 2:19:30 | |
practical solution we can reach by
reducing the state pension over a | 2:19:30 | 2:19:34 | |
longer period. My own view that the
private providers of pensions | 2:19:34 | 2:19:38 | |
already allow this through private
pensions and that option should be | 2:19:38 | 2:19:43 | |
given to people who have public
pensions as well. My view is the | 2:19:43 | 2:19:49 | |
changes in 2011 were rushed and
wrong and were brought in at speed. | 2:19:49 | 2:19:56 | |
I believe the equalisation is of
pensions made in 1995 was the right | 2:19:56 | 2:20:01 | |
thing to do but I do accept there
are cases for the two months - 18 | 2:20:01 | 2:20:08 | |
months because there are people who
have suffered in different ways | 2:20:08 | 2:20:11 | |
through this and we should
acknowledge that. My view is people | 2:20:11 | 2:20:17 | |
should be able to take their pension
late or have the option to wait and | 2:20:17 | 2:20:24 | |
have the £159 a week as it currently
sits. So, I have done some figures | 2:20:24 | 2:20:32 | |
and my benchmark figures are based
on the life expectancy of a woman in | 2:20:32 | 2:20:36 | |
the UK as being 83, which is
currently sits at the moment. And | 2:20:36 | 2:20:42 | |
the pension age previously in 1995
at 66. At the moment, the state | 2:20:42 | 2:20:49 | |
pension is £159 a week. Over the 17
years leading up to life expectancy, | 2:20:49 | 2:20:55 | |
the pension would cost £141,000,
just over it. I've done some | 2:20:55 | 2:21:00 | |
modelling based on £130 a week, £140
a week and £150 a week or a reduced | 2:21:00 | 2:21:09 | |
pension over a longer period of
time. I've also used the baseline to | 2:21:09 | 2:21:13 | |
measure that against the least
affected women, those affected for | 2:21:13 | 2:21:17 | |
two months and those who have been
affected over the 18 month period. | 2:21:17 | 2:21:22 | |
The conclusions overreached
according to the figures is the only | 2:21:22 | 2:21:26 | |
group that would be affected if
these proposals that I've put | 2:21:26 | 2:21:30 | |
together over the last few days are
put into place would be the people | 2:21:30 | 2:21:34 | |
that are the most affected, those
who have the 18 month periods away. | 2:21:34 | 2:21:40 | |
Even on those proposals, it would
only mean the government would have | 2:21:40 | 2:21:45 | |
to find 2003 and £57 over the
lifetime of that particular pension. | 2:21:45 | 2:21:51 | |
All the other models come out in a
positive way to the government. I | 2:21:51 | 2:21:55 | |
would just say in my own view, I
think this is something we should do | 2:21:55 | 2:21:59 | |
and there is a gesture we should
make to the women who have been | 2:21:59 | 2:22:02 | |
affected. I would ask the Minister
to sit down with me and look through | 2:22:02 | 2:22:07 | |
these figures to see if there is a
satisfactory solution to this | 2:22:07 | 2:22:12 | |
current problem. I'm happy to meet
with the ministry if he is happy to | 2:22:12 | 2:22:16 | |
meet with me. We should consider a
sensible way forward. I'm not | 2:22:16 | 2:22:20 | |
entirely sure I will be here for the
windups but I welcome the | 2:22:20 | 2:22:27 | |
opportunity to meet with the
Minister at a later date to discuss | 2:22:27 | 2:22:31 | |
how we can practically take this
solution forward. | 2:22:31 | 2:22:35 | |
Carolyn Harris. Can I congratulate
my honourable friend forces during | 2:22:36 | 2:22:42 | |
this really important debate. Can I
say to the government one more time, | 2:22:42 | 2:22:49 | |
you really need to stop burying your
head is in the sand and do the right | 2:22:49 | 2:22:52 | |
thing by these women. Because yet
again, we have the same point, | 2:22:52 | 2:22:57 | |
debating the unfairness and
injustice to the 1950s women as a | 2:22:57 | 2:23:01 | |
consequence to the changes to the
pension. Without the time to prepare | 2:23:01 | 2:23:06 | |
and make the necessary alternative
arrangements, so many women born in | 2:23:06 | 2:23:10 | |
the 1950s are left in financial
despair. The reality is the women | 2:23:10 | 2:23:14 | |
are desperate. I have women who are
affected: office, write to me, | 2:23:14 | 2:23:21 | |
e-mail me every day, let me know
they have had to sell their | 2:23:21 | 2:23:26 | |
belongings and are relying on
family, friends and food banks just | 2:23:26 | 2:23:29 | |
exist. Over 2.5 million women have
been wronged by this injustice, | 2:23:29 | 2:23:35 | |
that's 2.5 million voices that will
not be ignored and 2.5 million that | 2:23:35 | 2:23:39 | |
won't go away. The changes to the
Pensions Act 2011 gave people in | 2:23:39 | 2:23:48 | |
sufficient time to prepare for
retirement causing hardship for | 2:23:48 | 2:23:52 | |
certain groups. Those below average
age expectancy and those who depend | 2:23:52 | 2:23:56 | |
more on state pension in retirement,
those more likely to suffer from | 2:23:56 | 2:24:01 | |
health problems or disability, and
those who have to care for elderly | 2:24:01 | 2:24:05 | |
parents, husbands and grandchildren.
Limiting their ability to work at | 2:24:05 | 2:24:09 | |
home and beyond 65. For some of
these women, their jobs are | 2:24:09 | 2:24:14 | |
physically demanding and because of
their health, they can no longer do | 2:24:14 | 2:24:17 | |
the things they were able to do when
younger. And our own Minister | 2:24:17 | 2:24:22 | |
believes apprenticeships and
available work is to these women, I | 2:24:22 | 2:24:28 | |
believe that is a insult. Data for
women over 65 believe unemployment | 2:24:28 | 2:24:35 | |
benefits increased between 2013 and
2017, more so than the total number | 2:24:35 | 2:24:41 | |
of claimants... Do you not agree
with all of that, there are still | 2:24:41 | 2:24:45 | |
those of inconsistencies such as
one-year change of the date of birth | 2:24:45 | 2:24:50 | |
means three years change for the
pension, making it even more logical | 2:24:50 | 2:24:54 | |
way the government introduced this?
My thoughts of that have been put on | 2:24:54 | 2:24:59 | |
record many times and I agree with
Mike Right Honourable friend. Data | 2:24:59 | 2:25:03 | |
for women aged 60 plus had
unemployment benefits between 2013 | 2:25:03 | 2:25:10 | |
and 2017, more so than the total
number of claimants for all other | 2:25:10 | 2:25:14 | |
dangers. The number of women aged 60
plus claiming benefit increased by | 2:25:14 | 2:25:19 | |
around 9500 as a 115% increase and
pension ages changes have played a | 2:25:19 | 2:25:27 | |
substantial part in that increase.
It is crucial that this government | 2:25:27 | 2:25:32 | |
recognises the need for fair
transitional state pension | 2:25:32 | 2:25:35 | |
arrangements. Yet the government is
still not listening, they've | 2:25:35 | 2:25:40 | |
deceived these women, stolen their
security and shattered their dreams. | 2:25:40 | 2:25:47 | |
In September, myself and the
co-chair, the on rubble member for | 2:25:47 | 2:25:53 | |
East Worthing and Shoreham tackled
the subject which will be prepared | 2:25:53 | 2:26:00 | |
for 2018. The committee launched
recently a consultation to gather | 2:26:00 | 2:26:07 | |
opinions from the women affected and
the number of responses to our | 2:26:07 | 2:26:10 | |
questionnaire within the first few
hours was staggering. To date, we | 2:26:10 | 2:26:14 | |
have nearly 90 responses from groups
representing very many thousands of | 2:26:14 | 2:26:20 | |
women. These women are those who are
living with the consequence of the | 2:26:20 | 2:26:26 | |
pension changes, and these are the
women whose voices will be heard. I | 2:26:26 | 2:26:33 | |
have personally met with many women,
both in my constituency and as chair | 2:26:33 | 2:26:37 | |
of the APG G, I have visited many
constituencies around the country to | 2:26:37 | 2:26:43 | |
speak to these women affected. Most
recently, I have been to visit with | 2:26:43 | 2:26:47 | |
my friend from Rhondda. And my
office is currently dealing with | 2:26:47 | 2:26:53 | |
requests for me to visit 1950s
women's groups in Scotland, northern | 2:26:53 | 2:26:58 | |
England and right across Wales. And
wherever I go, the story is always | 2:26:58 | 2:27:03 | |
the same. These women feel cheated,
disrespected and they are angry. And | 2:27:03 | 2:27:10 | |
every meeting is packed. Not one of
these women has any intention of | 2:27:10 | 2:27:14 | |
giving up until they get the result
they have learnt and they deserve. | 2:27:14 | 2:27:19 | |
-- they have earned. Transitional
payments that will allow them to | 2:27:19 | 2:27:25 | |
enjoy their retirements that they
have spent many years working hard | 2:27:25 | 2:27:29 | |
for. What about those 1950s women
but left that this country to work | 2:27:29 | 2:27:34 | |
in other parts of Europe, not only
concerned how their lives will pan | 2:27:34 | 2:27:38 | |
out after Brexit, but are currently
feeling extremely vulnerable and | 2:27:38 | 2:27:43 | |
left out in the cold when it to
their pensions. These women have not | 2:27:43 | 2:27:48 | |
got an MP to voice their concerns,
so they have contacted me and I'm | 2:27:48 | 2:27:52 | |
sure many in this Chamber to ask
what is happening to their pensions? | 2:27:52 | 2:27:57 | |
When they left this country, they
left it believing they could get | 2:27:57 | 2:28:01 | |
their pension at 60 and they are
feeling they have been robbed also. | 2:28:01 | 2:28:06 | |
But across this House, so many
colleagues agree that the changes to | 2:28:06 | 2:28:10 | |
state pension are unjust and unfair.
So, it really is time for the | 2:28:10 | 2:28:15 | |
government to stop blocking their
ears, to start listening, let these | 2:28:15 | 2:28:23 | |
women have justice and do the right
and honourable thing and give these | 2:28:23 | 2:28:29 | |
WASPI women and all 1950s women what
they deserve, transitional payments. | 2:28:29 | 2:28:34 | |
Peter Aldous. Thank you... CHEERING
. They love you, Peter! Me? Just | 2:28:34 | 2:28:51 | |
before the Gentleman begins his
speech, let us make it very clear | 2:28:51 | 2:28:55 | |
that we don't have cheering and
clapping in any part of this | 2:28:55 | 2:28:58 | |
Chamber. We do have hear, hear,
smiles and laughs, but we don't have | 2:28:58 | 2:29:08 | |
cheering and clapping. Peter Aldous.
Thank you, due to my cold, I will | 2:29:08 | 2:29:17 | |
not be able to speak as passionately
and as loudly as the Lady I have | 2:29:17 | 2:29:21 | |
followed. I congratulate my friend
from Easington for securing this | 2:29:21 | 2:29:26 | |
debate, playing an important role in
continuing to highlight the | 2:29:26 | 2:29:30 | |
difficult situation in which many
women born on or after the 6th of | 2:29:30 | 2:29:35 | |
April 1950 find themselves as a
result of the changes to the state | 2:29:35 | 2:29:39 | |
pension age in the 1995 and 2011
pensions act. | 2:29:39 | 2:29:47 | |
This is an unfairness that needs to
be addressed and we do need to get | 2:29:47 | 2:29:50 | |
on with finding a solution. I fully
support the case for equalising the | 2:29:50 | 2:29:55 | |
retirement age and the need to raise
the pension age. That is required on | 2:29:55 | 2:30:00 | |
the grounds of increased life
expectancy and financial | 2:30:00 | 2:30:05 | |
sustainability. However, such
changes have a profound impact on | 2:30:05 | 2:30:09 | |
people and the lives that they live
will stop they need to be properly | 2:30:09 | 2:30:15 | |
researched the subject to full
consultation, and then introduced in | 2:30:15 | 2:30:18 | |
a fully transparent way. These
steps, Madam Deputy Speaker, have | 2:30:18 | 2:30:25 | |
not been taken in this instance.
Even though the pensions act | 2:30:25 | 2:30:28 | |
providing for the pensioners aged
increase for women from 60 to 65 was | 2:30:28 | 2:30:36 | |
enacted in 1995, government waited
14 years until April, 2009, before | 2:30:36 | 2:30:44 | |
they began writing individually to
the women affected. This lack of | 2:30:44 | 2:30:50 | |
notification mentioned they had no
time to make all talented | 2:30:50 | 2:30:53 | |
arrangements to their retirement. At
the time of the 2011 act, it was | 2:30:53 | 2:31:00 | |
clear there was a problem. Women
were raising their concerns with me. | 2:31:00 | 2:31:06 | |
As a result, the Government did make
changes to limit the impact on those | 2:31:06 | 2:31:11 | |
most affected. With hindsight,
looking back, it is clear that the | 2:31:11 | 2:31:15 | |
full scale of the problem was not
recognised and legislation should | 2:31:15 | 2:31:21 | |
have been preceded by a fall impact
assessment. Waspis briefing for the | 2:31:21 | 2:31:31 | |
debate highlights the balance these
women face in mitigating the sudden | 2:31:31 | 2:31:36 | |
change in their circumstances. Many
have no other source of income and, | 2:31:36 | 2:31:41 | |
until the 1990s, many women were not
allowed to join company pension | 2:31:41 | 2:31:48 | |
schemes that many women face
difficulties returning to the | 2:31:48 | 2:31:51 | |
workplace. Many are on the
expectation of an earlier | 2:31:51 | 2:31:57 | |
retirement, have taken on caring
responsibilities and some divorce | 2:31:57 | 2:32:00 | |
settlements were calculated on the
assumption that the state pension | 2:32:00 | 2:32:04 | |
age was going to be received
earlier. In 2016, there is a | 2:32:04 | 2:32:13 | |
compelling case as to why this
matter needs to be revisited. The | 2:32:13 | 2:32:19 | |
message from the wave any
constituency and from Suffolk is | 2:32:19 | 2:32:22 | |
that this is a situation that must
be addressed. -- Waveney. When many | 2:32:22 | 2:32:26 | |
of us presented petitions in this
chamber last autumn, I was second | 2:32:26 | 2:32:32 | |
behind the Honourable member for
whole north in terms of the people | 2:32:32 | 2:32:37 | |
who signed up. 2249 Waveney
constituents. Last year, | 2:32:37 | 2:32:45 | |
Conservative run Waveney District
Council unanimously endorsed this | 2:32:45 | 2:32:50 | |
petition and last week, Conservative
run Suffolk County Council | 2:32:50 | 2:32:54 | |
unanimously backed the campaign for
equality of pension provision for | 2:32:54 | 2:32:57 | |
women. In Suffolk, there has been a
tradition of women going out to | 2:32:57 | 2:33:06 | |
work, whether in factories,
agriculture, fishing, and clerical | 2:33:06 | 2:33:12 | |
posts. Often part-time and on low
salaries. These changes are | 2:33:12 | 2:33:17 | |
disproportionately affecting a lot
of them and their families. I will | 2:33:17 | 2:33:22 | |
give way. I thank the Honourable
member for giving way. I hope the | 2:33:22 | 2:33:26 | |
Honourable member will forgive me
and I hope Madam Deputy Speaker will | 2:33:26 | 2:33:30 | |
forgive me. I just wanted to say you
have my full support and the reason | 2:33:30 | 2:33:34 | |
I am not speaking in this debate is
simply because there were so many | 2:33:34 | 2:33:38 | |
other people speaking. The whole of
Suffolk is behind you on this one. I | 2:33:38 | 2:33:44 | |
am grateful, Madam Deputy Speaker,
for that endorsement from Suffolk. I | 2:33:44 | 2:33:49 | |
acknowledge the challenges the
Government faces in finding a way | 2:33:49 | 2:33:52 | |
forward that is both affordable and
complies with equalities | 2:33:52 | 2:33:58 | |
legislation. However, it is clear
that a particular group of people | 2:33:58 | 2:34:03 | |
have been unfairly penalised. I'd
thus support the motion and I urge | 2:34:03 | 2:34:07 | |
the Government to find a way forward
that is there, fully considered, and | 2:34:07 | 2:34:13 | |
affordable. Thank you, Madam Deputy
Speaker. Thank you very much, Madam | 2:34:13 | 2:34:20 | |
Deputy Speaker. I would like to
congratulate my Honourable friend | 2:34:20 | 2:34:32 | |
for Easington for securing this
debate. The manner in which the | 2:34:32 | 2:34:36 | |
pension change is totally unjust. It
is unfair and in my opinion in | 2:34:36 | 2:34:40 | |
moral. It has short-changed 2.6
million women and cause damage to | 2:34:40 | 2:34:47 | |
families for them it is extremely
important we do acknowledge this is | 2:34:47 | 2:34:51 | |
impacting on families. Women are
moving back in with their children | 2:34:51 | 2:34:54 | |
and it is leaving to marital
breakdowns. There are all. Is linked | 2:34:54 | 2:34:59 | |
to these financial burdens are women
are facing. Previously, during Prime | 2:34:59 | 2:35:04 | |
Minister's Questions, I mentioned my
constituent Diana Kendall. She | 2:35:04 | 2:35:07 | |
suffered a bleed on the brain in
2012. Have carried on working under | 2:35:07 | 2:35:12 | |
the assumption she would be able to
retire in September of this year. | 2:35:12 | 2:35:22 | |
She was not told of the changeable.
She has had to carry on working | 2:35:22 | 2:35:25 | |
because she does not have the money
in order to retire. When I asked the | 2:35:25 | 2:35:28 | |
Prime Minister when she would be
able to retire, I was told yet again | 2:35:28 | 2:35:31 | |
she would wait no more than 18
months. She is waiting six years. | 2:35:31 | 2:35:34 | |
That is the reality of what was
wrong with the Prime Minister's | 2:35:34 | 2:35:39 | |
answer. Diana has carried on running
her business, has carried on | 2:35:39 | 2:35:43 | |
working, won't be able to give up
working, but yet the Government | 2:35:43 | 2:35:49 | |
seemed completely disinterested,
even with women who have major | 2:35:49 | 2:35:52 | |
health issues in terms of helping
them be able to retire. Further to | 2:35:52 | 2:35:58 | |
that, I have constituents with
arthritis, heart conditions, | 2:35:58 | 2:36:01 | |
mobility problems, who have had to
deal with the hike in the state | 2:36:01 | 2:36:06 | |
pension age to stop despite finding
it extremely difficult to work, they | 2:36:06 | 2:36:09 | |
have been forced to work. This is
unacceptable on a group of women | 2:36:09 | 2:36:13 | |
born in a time when employment
rights, support for national | 2:36:13 | 2:36:22 | |
insurance contributions, maternity
rights simply did not exist. And it | 2:36:22 | 2:36:26 | |
is deeply unfair that these women
are facing yet another injustice. As | 2:36:26 | 2:36:31 | |
part of my work as secretary, I have
spoken to women in my own | 2:36:31 | 2:36:38 | |
constituency and women in other
constituencies have contacted me | 2:36:38 | 2:36:41 | |
with countless lists of problems
they are facing for the women who | 2:36:41 | 2:36:44 | |
say they own their own home but they
are selling their furniture. How can | 2:36:44 | 2:36:49 | |
ministers justify these things which
are happening to women who have | 2:36:49 | 2:36:53 | |
worked, in some cases, for 40 years,
and they are not to be told they | 2:36:53 | 2:36:57 | |
cannot retire when are expecting to?
The answer is, simply carry on. Only | 2:36:57 | 2:37:03 | |
wait 18 months. It is not true,
Madam Deputy Speaker. Beyond this | 2:37:03 | 2:37:09 | |
House, it is not just the women
campaigning born in the 1950s, there | 2:37:09 | 2:37:13 | |
is a huge amount of support from the
public. There is also support from | 2:37:13 | 2:37:17 | |
members across the House. No less
than 50 government MPs support the | 2:37:17 | 2:37:23 | |
campaign, as well as colleagues from
the DUP and SNP, liberal and Plaid | 2:37:23 | 2:37:32 | |
colleagues. If there were
legislative time to reverse these | 2:37:32 | 2:37:36 | |
decisions, we would win full so
isn't it time the Government stepped | 2:37:36 | 2:37:39 | |
up, offered support to these women,
because there is support across the | 2:37:39 | 2:37:44 | |
House full support and change to the
1950s women. My honourable friend | 2:37:44 | 2:37:49 | |
for Swansea East said, I held a
meeting for women across my | 2:37:49 | 2:37:55 | |
constituency, many of whom still not
aware of the pension changes that | 2:37:55 | 2:37:59 | |
are happening to them and have only
recently become informed of them | 2:37:59 | 2:38:02 | |
because the campaign is being led by
1950s women. Over 100 of them turned | 2:38:02 | 2:38:07 | |
up full top some of them raised new
issues. For example, when some were | 2:38:07 | 2:38:12 | |
deciding to defer their pension,
which is their right, they had not | 2:38:12 | 2:38:15 | |
actually realise they would be
entitled to it to match or years | 2:38:15 | 2:38:18 | |
before. Only when they would come
and being gauged in the process that | 2:38:18 | 2:38:26 | |
they realise they should have had it
two years before. Because of no | 2:38:26 | 2:38:28 | |
information on no letters telling
women about the changes they have | 2:38:28 | 2:38:31 | |
not been aware of the fact they
actually had a deferment which was | 2:38:31 | 2:38:36 | |
forced, whether they want to defer
it or not. I believe, truly believe | 2:38:36 | 2:38:41 | |
that the tide is turning and the
pressure on government, I hope, the | 2:38:41 | 2:38:45 | |
Government ministers are actually
listening to what is going on out in | 2:38:45 | 2:38:49 | |
the country, that these women are
actually suffering. We need the | 2:38:49 | 2:38:54 | |
Government to step up, caving,
bringing legislative time to | 2:38:54 | 2:38:57 | |
actually make changes to support the
two and a half million women. I will | 2:38:57 | 2:39:02 | |
always continue fighting for the
women of my constituency affected by | 2:39:02 | 2:39:06 | |
this and women up and down this
country. The Government needs to | 2:39:06 | 2:39:09 | |
listen. I urge Conservative members
to come with us, to get the | 2:39:09 | 2:39:15 | |
Government to change its mind and to
start supporting these 1950s women | 2:39:15 | 2:39:20 | |
who need our support now. I
congratulate the member for | 2:39:20 | 2:39:29 | |
Easington for bringing this
important subject forward. I have | 2:39:29 | 2:39:33 | |
great pleasure in following the
member for Ogmore. Now, I too have | 2:39:33 | 2:39:39 | |
met with Waspi women and we have
heard a lot of in Suffolk, as my | 2:39:39 | 2:39:46 | |
honourable friend has discussed. It
is a real prevalent issue for many | 2:39:46 | 2:39:50 | |
women. I have also discovered that
stories differ. I think it is really | 2:39:50 | 2:39:56 | |
important to treat people as
individuals on their journey through | 2:39:56 | 2:39:59 | |
life. We do not necessarily serve
all our population well, to lump | 2:39:59 | 2:40:05 | |
everything together as we are
discussing this matter. So, I think, | 2:40:05 | 2:40:12 | |
the primary thing I am understanding
is that no matter what the hue of | 2:40:12 | 2:40:16 | |
government, there needs to be
clarity and information as it is | 2:40:16 | 2:40:20 | |
passed down, about these important
issues. There is blame across the | 2:40:20 | 2:40:25 | |
piste, as far as people not getting
the information. In many cases, they | 2:40:25 | 2:40:31 | |
are saying to me that letters were
received. I have no reason to think | 2:40:31 | 2:40:36 | |
they were received. There is a
problem there in ensuring people are | 2:40:36 | 2:40:39 | |
properly informed. I will give way
to my honourable friend from the | 2:40:39 | 2:40:49 | |
South. I thank my honourable friend
for giving way was that would she | 2:40:49 | 2:40:56 | |
agree with me that it is absolutely
important that this generation of | 2:40:56 | 2:41:00 | |
women who have been affected because
these letters, some saw them, some | 2:41:00 | 2:41:05 | |
did not, some did not receive them,
and they have not been able to make | 2:41:05 | 2:41:09 | |
plans for their retirement. The next
generation of women will know | 2:41:09 | 2:41:11 | |
exactly what is coming. We have done
some alterations but the Government | 2:41:11 | 2:41:15 | |
needs to be more generous than has
been for this particular group of | 2:41:15 | 2:41:20 | |
women. I would agree with my
honourable friend that I would also | 2:41:20 | 2:41:25 | |
say that, for those of us who were
in our late 40s when we received | 2:41:25 | 2:41:29 | |
those letters, because I did receive
a letter, proves they do work, in | 2:41:29 | 2:41:37 | |
2011, 2000 12. I took a 10% hit in
my working life. I will be working | 2:41:37 | 2:41:45 | |
too, I think, 67 actually. Granted,
but I had a great deal of my life | 2:41:45 | 2:41:51 | |
looking after children and so on and
I am not in any way undermining that | 2:41:51 | 2:41:54 | |
I have had in my surgery women who
have particularly those who have | 2:41:54 | 2:41:59 | |
been carers, of which I think there
is a broader issue across many | 2:41:59 | 2:42:02 | |
departments and across governments,
but also individuals who made life | 2:42:02 | 2:42:10 | |
decisions prior to 2010. For that, I
have lobbied the minister and he has | 2:42:10 | 2:42:13 | |
discussed with me at length the fact
that there are individual women, one | 2:42:13 | 2:42:19 | |
in particular who was a midwife. She
went off and did five years work | 2:42:19 | 2:42:24 | |
overseas for charity in 2010,
predicating her decision on the | 2:42:24 | 2:42:30 | |
information she went with. OK. Now,
when she came back, not only did it | 2:42:30 | 2:42:35 | |
impact on the fact that she had had
those five years serving other | 2:42:35 | 2:42:40 | |
people but she also found that it
affected her burgess of her | 2:42:40 | 2:42:46 | |
midwifery qualification. When she
went to return to work, her | 2:42:46 | 2:42:49 | |
position, that job she could apply
for was compromised. There were | 2:42:49 | 2:42:57 | |
genuine cases. I move on to the fact
that treating everybody in this | 2:42:57 | 2:43:04 | |
universal way, perhaps, misses some
of the importance of what we are | 2:43:04 | 2:43:07 | |
trying to discuss. I thank my
honourable friend for giving way. I | 2:43:07 | 2:43:15 | |
have lobbied the minister on this as
well. I pay tribute to the Waspi | 2:43:15 | 2:43:21 | |
women who have presented a petition
here. Exactly the position around | 2:43:21 | 2:43:26 | |
caring for that many of these women
are unable to correct or because | 2:43:26 | 2:43:29 | |
they are already taking on a caring
responsibility now. It is very much | 2:43:29 | 2:43:34 | |
impact on what they can do
financially. I thank my honourable | 2:43:34 | 2:43:38 | |
friend the who I know works and
stinking lethal carers up and down | 2:43:38 | 2:43:44 | |
the country for raising that point.
I would say this is a broader | 2:43:44 | 2:43:48 | |
discussion about how we value
carers. -- unstintingly for carers. | 2:43:48 | 2:43:59 | |
I would also thank Goering Davis,
who brought up the case that a lot | 2:43:59 | 2:44:05 | |
of these women work in active. I
would gently say those issues are | 2:44:05 | 2:44:13 | |
issues that women, whether in their
50s, 40s, 30s or 20s, are dealing | 2:44:13 | 2:44:18 | |
with across the piste. Making a
specific case, women tend to bear | 2:44:18 | 2:44:23 | |
the brunt with these things. There
are challenges in Rowell areas, as | 2:44:23 | 2:44:27 | |
my honourable friend for
Berwick-upon-Tweed said. -- rural | 2:44:27 | 2:44:31 | |
areas. My honourable friend from
Waverley brought up the issues with | 2:44:31 | 2:44:37 | |
financial services and banks not
playing their part in being a | 2:44:37 | 2:44:40 | |
conduit of information for women. --
Waveney. I would just like to say | 2:44:40 | 2:44:47 | |
that the series of events which led
to this situation, and the fact that | 2:44:47 | 2:44:52 | |
we have all found ourselves learning
that communication should be done | 2:44:52 | 2:44:57 | |
better, at the nub of this is the
fact that we have a problem. 24 | 2:44:57 | 2:45:03 | |
letters were sent from the Queen in
1917 to say that women were turning | 2:45:03 | 2:45:09 | |
100. 24,000 last year. By 2050, 50
6000 people will celebrate. | 2:45:09 | 2:45:21 | |
The prediction in our county is by
2039, the majority of people in the | 2:45:21 | 2:45:26 | |
county will be over 65, this is an
almost extraordinary change in | 2:45:26 | 2:45:30 | |
society and we have to accept the
costs that come with it. Indeed, | 2:45:30 | 2:45:34 | |
which moves me on to essentially the
nub of the point that I would like | 2:45:34 | 2:45:41 | |
to make. That is the fact that many
of us come to this place as women, | 2:45:41 | 2:45:49 | |
as carers. My husband and I still
have four parents alive, which is | 2:45:49 | 2:45:57 | |
great. A sign of improved medical
care. We have four children who | 2:45:57 | 2:46:02 | |
arguably will bear the brunt of
paying for this. And I recently | 2:46:02 | 2:46:07 | |
spoke to a woman in one of my
surgeries who is affected by the | 2:46:07 | 2:46:14 | |
pension age, who said, was born in
1956. I have been fortunate to work | 2:46:14 | 2:46:18 | |
all my life and I do take that point
on board. In a variety of careers I | 2:46:18 | 2:46:23 | |
have enjoyed. Some of these were
once that she explained was | 2:46:23 | 2:46:33 | |
sometimes done out of necessity of
circumstance. She was warned that | 2:46:33 | 2:46:37 | |
her state pension age, in two
letters, that it would be changing | 2:46:37 | 2:46:42 | |
and she will receive her state
pension age at 66. 62 next birthday | 2:46:42 | 2:46:48 | |
and even in receipt pension, she
would struggle to stop working and | 2:46:48 | 2:46:52 | |
she really her current job. This is
what I mean about treating it on a | 2:46:52 | 2:46:58 | |
more individual basis. I appreciate
I am fortunate, I have good health, | 2:46:58 | 2:47:02 | |
something that has been referred to
on several occasions. I understand I | 2:47:02 | 2:47:06 | |
have a supportive husband and three
lovely children, but I expect to | 2:47:06 | 2:47:09 | |
live longer than my parents, but my
perception is my children struggle | 2:47:09 | 2:47:13 | |
more financially than I did at their
age. I realise my taxes contributed | 2:47:13 | 2:47:19 | |
to my parents pension and is my
children's taxes will bond mine. I | 2:47:19 | 2:47:25 | |
find it difficult to accept my
financially challenged children will | 2:47:25 | 2:47:30 | |
contribute to my pension for many
more years, it does not seem fair. | 2:47:30 | 2:47:34 | |
If we do not see through these
changes, the burden our children | 2:47:34 | 2:47:38 | |
will take is really quite
astronomical. It isn't fair, but it | 2:47:38 | 2:47:42 | |
is where we find ourselves. We must
ensure that we are proportionate in | 2:47:42 | 2:47:48 | |
our response. Yes, it is about
choices and I would very gently say | 2:47:48 | 2:47:56 | |
to the member for East Renfrewshire,
is it? Paisley and East | 2:47:56 | 2:48:01 | |
Renfrewshire. But the Scottish
National Party do have the ability | 2:48:01 | 2:48:05 | |
to make this unilateral decision if
they wanted to. | 2:48:05 | 2:48:13 | |
While I would agree, is it not that
we should be looking at this for all | 2:48:13 | 2:48:21 | |
women in the United Kingdom, rather
than saying, you can do it there and | 2:48:21 | 2:48:25 | |
you can do it that? This is a UK
wide problem. Order! The honourable | 2:48:25 | 2:48:32 | |
lady has been very generous in
giving into dungeons, but she has | 2:48:32 | 2:48:34 | |
run out of time. -- interventions.
Thank you, Madam Deputy chair. | 2:48:34 | 2:48:42 | |
Everyone is running out of time so I
am reducing the time limits to five | 2:48:42 | 2:48:46 | |
minutes. Liz twist.
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can | 2:48:46 | 2:48:52 | |
I declare an interest as one of
those 1950s born women directly | 2:48:52 | 2:48:59 | |
affected by changes to the state
pension age? But unlike many of | 2:48:59 | 2:49:06 | |
them, I am fortunate to be able to
raise this issue in this chamber. | 2:49:06 | 2:49:11 | |
The fact is that many of these 1950s
born women have been hit not just | 2:49:11 | 2:49:16 | |
once, but twice by changes to the
state pension age. First, those of | 2:49:16 | 2:49:22 | |
us born in the 1950s were hit by an
equalisation of the state pension | 2:49:22 | 2:49:25 | |
age to that of men with transitional
arrangements in place according to | 2:49:25 | 2:49:30 | |
date of birth, up to 2020. Sadly,
the Government at that time did not | 2:49:30 | 2:49:35 | |
see fit to tell others, the women
affected, about the change. And many | 2:49:35 | 2:49:41 | |
remained unaware, looking forward to
receiving their state pension at 60. | 2:49:41 | 2:49:46 | |
Until that time approached and they
were devastated to find the | 2:49:46 | 2:49:50 | |
financial ground shifting beneath
their feet as they approached 60. | 2:49:50 | 2:49:53 | |
And in 2011, the Coalition
Government sped up the changes so | 2:49:53 | 2:49:58 | |
state pension age for women reached
had -- 65 by 2018 with an increase | 2:49:58 | 2:50:04 | |
in the state pension age for men and
women to 66 by April 2020. Leaving | 2:50:04 | 2:50:12 | |
many women completely unable to make
up that financial gap even if they | 2:50:12 | 2:50:15 | |
were aware of the earlier changes,
which many were not. How ironic that | 2:50:15 | 2:50:21 | |
measures designed to increase state
pension equality should have such a | 2:50:21 | 2:50:26 | |
discriminatory effect on women in
particular. And it has indeed had a | 2:50:26 | 2:50:33 | |
discriminatory effect, as many
1950s-b on women face real hardship. | 2:50:33 | 2:50:39 | |
And I want to refer to two women out
of the thousands in my constituency | 2:50:39 | 2:50:43 | |
whose cases struck me. Like Barbara,
I knocked on her door during the | 2:50:43 | 2:50:50 | |
election campaign, she had worked
all her life and was working until | 2:50:50 | 2:50:53 | |
before I knocked on her door. But
she had worked for BHS, British home | 2:50:53 | 2:50:59 | |
stores. Following the collapse of
that company, she found herself | 2:50:59 | 2:51:03 | |
without a state pension and in a
classic double whammy without a | 2:51:03 | 2:51:07 | |
company pension. At that stage. All
like the woman who approached me in | 2:51:07 | 2:51:13 | |
a shopping centre quite unsolicited,
who said, we need to do something. | 2:51:13 | 2:51:19 | |
She says she had retired early to
look after her mother. Thinking she | 2:51:19 | 2:51:24 | |
would get her state pension at 60.
Only to find out at the death of her | 2:51:24 | 2:51:29 | |
mother that she could not get her
pension and she had to rely on | 2:51:29 | 2:51:32 | |
benefits and family support. After
working most of her life. These | 2:51:32 | 2:51:38 | |
cases are not unique. So this issue
is not going to go away. And I can | 2:51:38 | 2:51:42 | |
tell you that many women still
contact me to say they have joined | 2:51:42 | 2:51:47 | |
the campaign, they have registered
cases for maladministration with the | 2:51:47 | 2:51:51 | |
DWP, leading to more of a backlog
with the independent complaints | 2:51:51 | 2:51:58 | |
Examiner considering this issue. So
where do we go from here? The | 2:51:58 | 2:52:02 | |
Government must address this issue
as a matter of urgency. I have no | 2:52:02 | 2:52:07 | |
doubt we'll hear about the measures
the Government has in place to help | 2:52:07 | 2:52:12 | |
people into work or into
apprenticeships. That is great. Any | 2:52:12 | 2:52:15 | |
woman who wants to work, that is
fabulous and is able to do so. Many | 2:52:15 | 2:52:23 | |
women through circumstances are not
able to do that. They were not | 2:52:23 | 2:52:27 | |
expecting these changes and find
themselves unable to work having not | 2:52:27 | 2:52:29 | |
after parents or family. And
frankly, in a competitive jobs | 2:52:29 | 2:52:36 | |
market, it is just not that easy for
1950s-born women to find work. | 2:52:36 | 2:52:43 | |
On this matter of measures the
government has taken Canada she not | 2:52:43 | 2:52:47 | |
agree with me whatever measures the
Government may have taken, they have | 2:52:47 | 2:52:52 | |
not worked and they have not
answered the problem and continuing | 2:52:52 | 2:52:55 | |
sense of injustice which is still
there and that is why we're here | 2:52:55 | 2:53:00 | |
today? I think the Honourable
Members about intervention and yes, | 2:53:00 | 2:53:03 | |
I most do agree. What I am saying is
that I am asking the Government to | 2:53:03 | 2:53:10 | |
meet the WASPI campaigners, to
explore solutions, looking at | 2:53:10 | 2:53:15 | |
transitional state pension
arrangements. And to make resolving | 2:53:15 | 2:53:19 | |
this issue a priority for the 3.8
million women affected by these | 2:53:19 | 2:53:23 | |
changes. This is a campaign powered
by women. Women who are showing | 2:53:23 | 2:53:31 | |
determination and courage in the
campaign. And I commend all of those | 2:53:31 | 2:53:36 | |
women who are determined that this
cause will be addressed. | 2:53:36 | 2:53:45 | |
It is a great pleasure to speaking
this debate and eight congratulate | 2:53:45 | 2:53:49 | |
the member for bringing it forward,
I have had a considerable amount of | 2:53:49 | 2:53:55 | |
correspondence on this from ladies
in Suffolk affected by it, I don't | 2:53:55 | 2:53:57 | |
know if they are in the chamber
today. As everyone quite rightly is | 2:53:57 | 2:54:02 | |
focusing on the specific issue of
that cohort of women, I wanted to | 2:54:02 | 2:54:05 | |
look at what is the long-term
implications for the state pension | 2:54:05 | 2:54:09 | |
system of this issue. The question
we need to ask is, is it really fit | 2:54:09 | 2:54:14 | |
for purpose, do we have a state
pension system that delivers any | 2:54:14 | 2:54:18 | |
longer? And the key thing is this,
we have a pay-as-you-go system. What | 2:54:18 | 2:54:24 | |
is the most common admit we hear
from ladies who have been affected | 2:54:24 | 2:54:28 | |
by these changes? It is this, I have
paid in my contributions all my | 2:54:28 | 2:54:33 | |
life, it is my pension pot. They
believe they have paid in that many | 2:54:33 | 2:54:36 | |
so they have a contract of what they
should receive in return. The | 2:54:36 | 2:54:41 | |
problem is this. There is no such
part. None of us in the state | 2:54:41 | 2:54:45 | |
pension system have a pot with our
name on it, we have a pay-as-you-go | 2:54:45 | 2:54:49 | |
system. This month's National
Insurance contributions paid this | 2:54:49 | 2:54:54 | |
month's pension liabilities into the
state system and I am afraid that | 2:54:54 | 2:54:58 | |
system is extremely vulnerable in
the face of demographic change. | 2:54:58 | 2:55:01 | |
Always give way to the honourable
lady. Very grateful to my former | 2:55:01 | 2:55:06 | |
committee colleague! I would like to
ask, it is it the same pay-as-you-go | 2:55:06 | 2:55:10 | |
system for the DUP to remain in
power? That is not the function of | 2:55:10 | 2:55:15 | |
the state pension system and I will
resist the bait she tries to get me | 2:55:15 | 2:55:19 | |
to rise to. In my view, it is
important to remember the cost of | 2:55:19 | 2:55:24 | |
this. The DWP is the largest part of
the state pension, 111 billion, the | 2:55:24 | 2:55:33 | |
biggest part of expenditure, you
bring a state pension of £160 a | 2:55:33 | 2:55:40 | |
week, not exactly a King's ransom.
Pensioner poverty would be far | 2:55:40 | 2:55:44 | |
higher if it was not for the fact we
have a generation of pensioners, | 2:55:44 | 2:55:48 | |
many of whom are fortunate enough to
have occupational pensions and good | 2:55:48 | 2:55:52 | |
luck to them, my parents from that
generation, and many owned property | 2:55:52 | 2:55:57 | |
and equity people over 65 in housing
is about £1.5 trillion. Net | 2:55:57 | 2:56:04 | |
generation had been cautioned and of
course by the actions of this | 2:56:04 | 2:56:07 | |
Government, and protecting pension
benefits and bringing in the | 2:56:07 | 2:56:12 | |
triple-lock, all of which has
protected expenditure on the state | 2:56:12 | 2:56:19 | |
pension from necessary savings in
other departments. I will give way. | 2:56:19 | 2:56:25 | |
I beg the honourable member, but
would he not agree with me that | 2:56:25 | 2:56:28 | |
regardless of the figures he quoted,
the people paying the price for this | 2:56:28 | 2:56:32 | |
women born in the 1950s? My point
was going to be that everyone will | 2:56:32 | 2:56:37 | |
end up paying the price. Of course
this debate is about a specific | 2:56:37 | 2:56:42 | |
cohort that have been hit quite
directly under that a specific | 2:56:42 | 2:56:45 | |
period of time, there is the issue
of notification. But young people | 2:56:45 | 2:56:49 | |
going to work know about the
retirement age changing, they have | 2:56:49 | 2:56:53 | |
got notification, it does not mean
they can save adequately for their | 2:56:53 | 2:56:56 | |
pension or they can afford one or
get a foot on the housing ladder and | 2:56:56 | 2:56:59 | |
there will probably not have an
occupational pension. We cannot look | 2:56:59 | 2:57:03 | |
at this in isolation, we need to
look at the entire system. One more | 2:57:03 | 2:57:07 | |
intervention. Would he agree with me
that we must get away from the | 2:57:07 | 2:57:12 | |
language of talking about the women
born in the 1950s as though they | 2:57:12 | 2:57:15 | |
some kind of burden on society?
These women are only asking for what | 2:57:15 | 2:57:20 | |
they were promised and what they
themselves have paid for, they are | 2:57:20 | 2:57:23 | |
not a burden, they are people
looking for justice. No one is | 2:57:23 | 2:57:28 | |
saying that. And my point is that
precisely what the honourable | 2:57:28 | 2:57:32 | |
lady... When they say they have paid
it, it isn't just a mathematical | 2:57:32 | 2:57:36 | |
fact. The system is not designed for
this ageing population and the | 2:57:36 | 2:57:43 | |
demographic change we have and the
duty on us in government is to be | 2:57:43 | 2:57:47 | |
open and honest and try and come up
with reforms to address it. In my | 2:57:47 | 2:57:50 | |
view, and it is a big deal, we
should try and move to a funded | 2:57:50 | 2:57:55 | |
pension system. Let's be honest,
that is not a minor detail. If the | 2:57:55 | 2:57:58 | |
Minister went to his officials and
said, what do you think of that? | 2:57:58 | 2:58:03 | |
They would say, sit down, put a wet
flannel on your head, have a go with | 2:58:03 | 2:58:06 | |
tea and move onto the next issue. It
is not a minor deal. The only | 2:58:06 | 2:58:10 | |
government that has ever moved from
a pay-as-you-go system to a funded | 2:58:10 | 2:58:15 | |
one is Pinochet in Chile and he did
not have to worry about rebellions! | 2:58:15 | 2:58:21 | |
It is extremely difficult because
you have to pay twice. A generation | 2:58:21 | 2:58:25 | |
has to pay twice. I believe it can
be done. There are two proposals on | 2:58:25 | 2:58:29 | |
this. In 1997, our party in the
general election proposed Basic | 2:58:29 | 2:58:35 | |
pension plus, Peter Lilley came up
with a system moving from the | 2:58:35 | 2:58:38 | |
current state pension to a funded
one. It would have been fully in | 2:58:38 | 2:58:43 | |
place by 2040. 23 years from now,
the liability of the state pension | 2:58:43 | 2:58:47 | |
would have fallen dramatically. If
you look at the OBR, the forecast 50 | 2:58:47 | 2:58:52 | |
years from today for public spending
at current prices is an extra 156 | 2:58:52 | 2:58:59 | |
billion. Now, that is mainly because
of demographic change and higher | 2:58:59 | 2:59:02 | |
costs of health care, more complex
health needs. That is an | 2:59:02 | 2:59:06 | |
extraordinary position to be in and
as they say, that is not remotely | 2:59:06 | 2:59:10 | |
sustainable. The option we have
heard from my honourable friend the | 2:59:10 | 2:59:15 | |
member for Weston-Super-Mare, any
funded state pension is effectively | 2:59:15 | 2:59:18 | |
a sovereign wealth fund, a welly of
taking the money we pay into | 2:59:18 | 2:59:25 | |
unproductive state pension system
and investing into the country's | 2:59:25 | 2:59:28 | |
productive knees, boosting
productivity and investment and | 2:59:28 | 2:59:31 | |
giving a greater return and greater
ownership to people in an age when I | 2:59:31 | 2:59:35 | |
think the ownership in the
capitalist system is something under | 2:59:35 | 2:59:38 | |
threat. So there are huge benefits
to be had. The savings ratio is | 2:59:38 | 2:59:43 | |
extremely low and this is one of the
most worrying thing is in the budget | 2:59:43 | 2:59:46 | |
we have just heard. What we do know
is that if you have a system which | 2:59:46 | 2:59:51 | |
effectively forces people to save
from a younger age, it is very | 2:59:51 | 2:59:54 | |
effective, that is what we have had
with the new system that has come | 2:59:54 | 2:59:58 | |
out. So yes, there are specific
issues to look at the ladies | 2:59:58 | 3:00:02 | |
affected by this change, but if we
really want to resolve it, we have | 3:00:02 | 3:00:05 | |
to take the long-term lessons and we
owe it to those affected to say, how | 3:00:05 | 3:00:09 | |
can we stop future generations being
affected by it? Because if you own | 3:00:09 | 3:00:14 | |
your pension, this sort of change,
arbitrarily impacted by the state, | 3:00:14 | 3:00:18 | |
put in place by the state, cannot
happen. And it will take many years | 3:00:18 | 3:00:22 | |
to put in place, but there would be
immediate short-term benefit as we | 3:00:22 | 3:00:26 | |
would move to an economy that would
create more confidence in investment | 3:00:26 | 3:00:29 | |
and we would move away from a boom
and bust higher consumer debt model | 3:00:29 | 3:00:35 | |
which is why I think my honourable
friend has got it spot on. | 3:00:35 | 3:00:44 | |
We will need cross-party consensus
and we will need to be radical and | 3:00:44 | 3:00:47 | |
look to the future and not focus
entirely on the short-term issues. | 3:00:47 | 3:00:52 | |
Aye I had to reduce the time it to
four minutes. First of all, may I | 3:00:52 | 3:00:59 | |
take this opportunity to not just
congratulate that commend the member | 3:00:59 | 3:01:02 | |
for Easington for bringing this
very, very important debate? I must | 3:01:02 | 3:01:13 | |
reiterate, we must recognise the
injustice these women have been | 3:01:13 | 3:01:15 | |
dealt. It is not a case of simply
saying, we hear the issues that have | 3:01:15 | 3:01:20 | |
been raised about by constituents,
we need to listen. I know the member | 3:01:20 | 3:01:26 | |
for Bury St Edmunds talked about
proportionality and cost and there | 3:01:26 | 3:01:30 | |
are actions, such as early drawdown,
that the garment can take now. This | 3:01:30 | 3:01:34 | |
action, which would be cost neutral,
could have a beneficial impact. -- | 3:01:34 | 3:01:42 | |
the Government was I don't
understand what prevents the | 3:01:42 | 3:01:45 | |
Government from introducing across
mutual measure of an early drawdown | 3:01:45 | 3:01:51 | |
for women who wish to pursue this
option. To do nothing is not only | 3:01:51 | 3:01:57 | |
inadequate, it is unfair and unjust.
In my constituency of pita bread, I | 3:01:57 | 3:02:02 | |
have been contacted by a number of
constituents, and that is on the | 3:02:02 | 3:02:07 | |
issue of looking at proportionality.
-- of Peter borough. We cannot say | 3:02:07 | 3:02:12 | |
there may be one or two women who
have come to our attention and we | 3:02:12 | 3:02:16 | |
feel we need to look at individuals,
this is a massive issue for number | 3:02:16 | 3:02:21 | |
of women, which the Waspi women
plight covers and brings to our | 3:02:21 | 3:02:26 | |
attention. We must do something. It
is not enough to say we are here. We | 3:02:26 | 3:02:30 | |
need to listen and take action. I
believe that whilst I understand | 3:02:30 | 3:02:35 | |
that the pension age has to go up
the rate of the increase has been | 3:02:35 | 3:02:41 | |
very rapid, with very little warning
more time to prepare for it. Many | 3:02:41 | 3:02:45 | |
members will have heard the phrase
that says, to forewarn is to four | 3:02:45 | 3:02:49 | |
arm. Where was the forewarning some
of these women? We cannot sit back | 3:02:49 | 3:02:54 | |
and say, we're very sorry you didn't
get letter, or even compare young | 3:02:54 | 3:02:59 | |
people much like myself saying, in
years to come, we will have to deal | 3:02:59 | 3:03:03 | |
with differences in the pension
being paid to us or state pensions | 3:03:03 | 3:03:07 | |
we could be eligible for, this is a
very specific plight of the 1950s | 3:03:07 | 3:03:13 | |
women, who have been dealt a very
unjust blow. For us to sit back and | 3:03:13 | 3:03:19 | |
say, there were letters and everyone
has to suffer. At some point someone | 3:03:19 | 3:03:24 | |
will come across this. Younger
people will have this effect. This | 3:03:24 | 3:03:27 | |
is not acceptable. Thank you for
giving Waigel to visit not | 3:03:27 | 3:03:33 | |
particularly galling a
disproportionate number of Waspi | 3:03:33 | 3:03:37 | |
women do not have access to pension
schemes? It is all the more galling | 3:03:37 | 3:03:41 | |
for them as a result. I absolutely
agree with my honourable friend. | 3:03:41 | 3:03:48 | |
That is correct. With regards to the
state pension, we need to understand | 3:03:48 | 3:03:52 | |
this is not a welfare benefit. We
are not saying that some of you have | 3:03:52 | 3:03:57 | |
paid in and, sorry about this, we
cannot do what we promised you. If | 3:03:57 | 3:04:01 | |
you are going along and paying in
she were 15, paying into a system | 3:04:01 | 3:04:06 | |
that you believed would pay you back
in your time of need, that you could | 3:04:06 | 3:04:10 | |
rely on that and it was taken me and
you do not have a pension in your | 3:04:10 | 3:04:15 | |
workplace or you did not get booked
into that type of pension, | 3:04:15 | 3:04:19 | |
absolutely it has dire consequences
and very negative impacts on our | 3:04:19 | 3:04:23 | |
lives. In my constituency I was
contacted by number of women, one of | 3:04:23 | 3:04:27 | |
which was Wendy Hopkins that she
advised me she had been working | 3:04:27 | 3:04:32 | |
since 15 and paid all of her
national insurance contributions, | 3:04:32 | 3:04:35 | |
thinking she could retire at 60. Two
years before retirement age could | 3:04:35 | 3:04:40 | |
she was told this had been increased
to 63. Within 18 months of this age | 3:04:40 | 3:04:46 | |
now has to wait till she turns 66.
As members can imagine, this did not | 3:04:46 | 3:04:52 | |
afford sufficient time in which she
could make arrangements to make up | 3:04:52 | 3:04:55 | |
her financial loss. So, in that case
can she had to rely on her husband, | 3:04:55 | 3:05:00 | |
who has now had to work his 67, and
is taking up a part-time job to | 3:05:00 | 3:05:07 | |
cover the financial loss they have
suffered. It is very important and | 3:05:07 | 3:05:12 | |
prudent to acknowledge that there
are some women who did receive the | 3:05:12 | 3:05:15 | |
letter about the 2011 pension act
and advised them the pensionable age | 3:05:15 | 3:05:23 | |
would be increased by another 15
months. Due to personal | 3:05:23 | 3:05:27 | |
circumstances, which seems to be
overlooked by some contributions in | 3:05:27 | 3:05:32 | |
this House, not everyone is in a
position to take up an | 3:05:32 | 3:05:37 | |
apprenticeship or work, or they may
have caring needs of partners or | 3:05:37 | 3:05:41 | |
children. It is not a fact they
should have to turn around and say, | 3:05:41 | 3:05:44 | |
yes, I will continue to work. This
is something they were promised me | 3:05:44 | 3:05:49 | |
need to respect that. I feel, I will
draw my comments to conclusion now, | 3:05:49 | 3:05:54 | |
that we need to take action we need
to act now. There are cost neutral | 3:05:54 | 3:05:59 | |
things we could do and we need to do
it. Another day, another debate on | 3:05:59 | 3:06:06 | |
pension for women is born -- born in
the 1950s. We have had more debates | 3:06:06 | 3:06:14 | |
on the subject and Liz Taylor had
husbands. This situation will not go | 3:06:14 | 3:06:23 | |
away. I'm proud to be the
co-chairman of the party group and | 3:06:23 | 3:06:28 | |
please do have co-sponsored this
debate here today. I want to | 3:06:28 | 3:06:33 | |
reiterate the point that Waspi is
not just those groups calling | 3:06:33 | 3:06:38 | |
themselves Waspi, it is the hundreds
and thousands and millions of women | 3:06:38 | 3:06:41 | |
who find themselves in this
position. I welcome the survey we | 3:06:41 | 3:06:45 | |
have put out. I hope you will get
some concrete data and I hope you | 3:06:45 | 3:06:50 | |
will be supporting the bill when it
comes to this House in April. To | 3:06:50 | 3:06:55 | |
reiterate, there are three main
problems. Nobody is complaining | 3:06:55 | 3:06:58 | |
about equalising the pension age. It
is the process and mechanism of | 3:06:58 | 3:07:03 | |
getting there which is at fault. It
is the disproportionate impact on a | 3:07:03 | 3:07:11 | |
specific explicit group of people,
more than 3 million now, and | 3:07:11 | 3:07:14 | |
particularly where those women, it
is calculated that 33% of men, a | 3:07:14 | 3:07:19 | |
third of men, will retire were just
the state pension to rely on but for | 3:07:19 | 3:07:25 | |
women the figure is 53%. Much more
important to women. Secondary it is | 3:07:25 | 3:07:32 | |
the arbitrary cut-off date that many
of these women have had to suffer. A | 3:07:32 | 3:07:36 | |
women born in 1953 on the 2nd of
May, her pension age will now be | 3:07:36 | 3:07:42 | |
November 2000 and 16. A loss of some
2000 what she might originally have | 3:07:42 | 3:07:47 | |
expected. -- 2016. Someone born six
months later, her pension age will | 3:07:47 | 3:07:55 | |
be 2020. A huge difference for the
sake of 12 months. Would my | 3:07:55 | 3:08:01 | |
honourable friend agree that before
the changes which came in in 2011, | 3:08:01 | 3:08:07 | |
some analysis should have been
carried out to address the problems | 3:08:07 | 3:08:10 | |
he has now identified? That is
right. We have heard time and again | 3:08:10 | 3:08:18 | |
there was transition money given in
2011. Half that money went to men to | 3:08:18 | 3:08:22 | |
make up for the transition
differences they were getting. Women | 3:08:22 | 3:08:26 | |
did not benefit disproportionately
from the additional money. Secondly, | 3:08:26 | 3:08:33 | |
thirdly, Madame de de Speaker, the
whole issue about the lack of | 3:08:33 | 3:08:38 | |
notice, for many of those women,
even if they had got the notice, | 3:08:38 | 3:08:41 | |
they were not in a position to make
preparations to order their | 3:08:41 | 3:08:45 | |
lifestyle to enable them to be able
to survive through their 60s. -- | 3:08:45 | 3:08:50 | |
Madam Deputy Speaker. They have had
caring son 's abilities, depleted | 3:08:50 | 3:08:56 | |
savings and disabilities themselves.
-- caring responsibilities. Women's | 3:08:56 | 3:09:04 | |
pension savings are 66% less than
men's the 1960s. Women were often | 3:09:04 | 3:09:12 | |
ineligible to join employers pension
schemes are often passed over for | 3:09:12 | 3:09:16 | |
promotion in favour of male
colleagues. That is the legacy those | 3:09:16 | 3:09:18 | |
women are bringing with them now.
Also, there are other disadvantages. | 3:09:18 | 3:09:23 | |
The 2001 changes to the widow 's
pension meant those widowed prior to | 3:09:23 | 3:09:28 | |
their SBA no longer receive a full
widow 's pension until they reach | 3:09:28 | 3:09:31 | |
their full FPA which has now been
delayed. We need to find a solution, | 3:09:31 | 3:09:38 | |
the Government needs to listen and
get around the table and discuss. | 3:09:38 | 3:09:42 | |
There are many different transition
arrangements we could bring in. | 3:09:42 | 3:09:46 | |
Scaremongering that it will cost
tens of billions of pounds is really | 3:09:46 | 3:09:49 | |
not helpful. We can do things around
the bus passes and winter allowance | 3:09:49 | 3:09:53 | |
as well that would make a meaningful
effect too many women but we need to | 3:09:53 | 3:09:58 | |
help those who are in most need at
the moment and they are suffering | 3:09:58 | 3:10:02 | |
now it is important to say this is
not a benefit, it is an entitlement. | 3:10:02 | 3:10:09 | |
Some of these women could have paid
national insurance contributions. I | 3:10:09 | 3:10:14 | |
appreciate it is not directly linked
to a pension, for as long as 50 | 3:10:14 | 3:10:18 | |
years by the time they retire. It is
reasonable for them to expect they | 3:10:18 | 3:10:21 | |
would start to benefit at the time
they contracted to, when they | 3:10:21 | 3:10:26 | |
started working, and paid their
employment use to the Treasury. I | 3:10:26 | 3:10:30 | |
also want to echo the points by my
co-chair from the group about women | 3:10:30 | 3:10:36 | |
overseas as well. Madam Deputy
Speaker, we have a duty of care to | 3:10:36 | 3:10:43 | |
these women a specific set of women
that won't be affected in the future | 3:10:43 | 3:10:48 | |
because we have changed the law.
That duty of care needs to be | 3:10:48 | 3:10:53 | |
honoured before more women suffer,
or worse still, come to the end of | 3:10:53 | 3:10:58 | |
their lives. As my co-chair said
that they are feeling cheated, | 3:10:58 | 3:11:03 | |
disrespected and angry. The Prime
Minister said last year, I want a | 3:11:03 | 3:11:07 | |
country built on furnace where
everyone plays by the same rules. | 3:11:07 | 3:11:10 | |
Let's start by showing it and
writing this injustice now. -- | 3:11:10 | 3:11:16 | |
fairness. I completely agree with
the member for East Worthing and | 3:11:16 | 3:11:21 | |
Shoreham pulled this is an
entitlement for women. And I also | 3:11:21 | 3:11:26 | |
commend the member for Easington who
has a real determination to ensure | 3:11:26 | 3:11:30 | |
that women get justice. I am so
proud of women. Women across the | 3:11:30 | 3:11:34 | |
country you are standing up for
their rights. We will back them. My | 3:11:34 | 3:11:39 | |
question is this. Why is it always
women that have to experience so | 3:11:39 | 3:11:44 | |
much financial hardship and poverty
in later life? We know the | 3:11:44 | 3:11:51 | |
structures of employment drive women
into poverty. 36% of women working | 3:11:51 | 3:11:56 | |
part-time compared to 22% of men.
Women earning a third less. Women | 3:11:56 | 3:12:02 | |
part-time earning a third less than
full-time men. Women who are | 3:12:02 | 3:12:07 | |
responsible, take on
responsibilities for | 3:12:07 | 3:12:10 | |
intergenerational care. A quarter of
women not returning to work after | 3:12:10 | 3:12:14 | |
having a child. 17% I have to say
through pregnancy discrimination. | 3:12:14 | 3:12:21 | |
Therefore, already, economically
disadvantaged. We know in the pay | 3:12:21 | 3:12:25 | |
structures, vertical job segregation
means women earn, on average, around | 3:12:25 | 3:12:29 | |
£25,000 compared to men, £30,000.
Women in the north and on average | 3:12:29 | 3:12:37 | |
less than women in the south. We
know that women tend to be | 3:12:37 | 3:12:42 | |
predicated in those low-paid jobs.
And, of course, the jobs as we have | 3:12:42 | 3:12:47 | |
heard followed the seas. Childcare,
catering, cashiers, cleaning and | 3:12:47 | 3:12:51 | |
clerical work. It means it is hard
for women to work in later life. | 3:12:51 | 3:12:56 | |
That must be recognised. But I have
to say that when we hear those | 3:12:56 | 3:13:03 | |
stories of women who come into our
surgeries who have five jobs, as I | 3:13:03 | 3:13:07 | |
did in my surgery on Friday. 30 our
jobs and two part-time jobs. We know | 3:13:07 | 3:13:13 | |
it is tough for women that many
cannot get employment at all in | 3:13:13 | 3:13:17 | |
later life. Of course we know that
the occupational pension that women | 3:13:17 | 3:13:21 | |
have saved up for is far less than
men. They only on average get 2500 | 3:13:21 | 3:13:30 | |
years of an occupational pension and
then, if you think, have further | 3:13:30 | 3:13:34 | |
injustice in not being able to
receive their state pension either | 3:13:34 | 3:13:39 | |
after they have made those
contributions. It is a complete | 3:13:39 | 3:13:42 | |
disgrace. I am fed up that it is
always women that have to pay the | 3:13:42 | 3:13:48 | |
price. If we look at other
countries, they take our lifelong | 3:13:48 | 3:13:52 | |
approach to pensions. If they are
bringing in changes, people are | 3:13:52 | 3:13:55 | |
aware of it the decades ahead. And
here, even though the Turner | 3:13:55 | 3:14:03 | |
commission said 15 years, here women
are not getting such rights | 3:14:03 | 3:14:05 | |
honoured. Therefore, what we have to
look at is particularly women in | 3:14:05 | 3:14:10 | |
poverty and the experience they have
at the moment. I have been reading, | 3:14:10 | 3:14:15 | |
obviously, at a time when we have
heard that 1.9 million people in our | 3:14:15 | 3:14:19 | |
country are living in poverty and we
know that 40,000 people died last | 3:14:19 | 3:14:23 | |
winter because they could not even
afford to heat their own homes. We | 3:14:23 | 3:14:27 | |
have to address the issue of women
of pension age in poverty. We | 3:14:27 | 3:14:32 | |
certainly know that the Waspi women,
pension poverty has increased from | 3:14:32 | 3:14:40 | |
12% to 21%. So, a real issue to be
addressed. | 3:14:40 | 3:14:45 | |
It was not women who failed but it
is women who have been bailed. Women | 3:14:45 | 3:14:51 | |
have always had to pay, always
discriminated, to the point poverty. | 3:14:51 | 3:14:57 | |
It was government that made these
changes, it was government that | 3:14:57 | 3:15:00 | |
failed to notify these women and we
must rectify this gross injustice to | 3:15:00 | 3:15:05 | |
end poverty for women in later life.
Let's have real dignity for women in | 3:15:05 | 3:15:09 | |
the and let's honour what they paid
into, thank you. | 3:15:09 | 3:15:14 | |
What they paid into, thank you. What
they paid into, thank you. What they | 3:15:14 | 3:15:18 | |
paid into, thank you. This? I was
happy to add my signature to the | 3:15:18 | 3:15:23 | |
application to ensure it got through
to the backbench of the committee. | 3:15:23 | 3:15:28 | |
Can I pay tribute to local WASPI
campaigners. Several Scottish | 3:15:28 | 3:15:36 | |
members today to sate my members are
watching at home. I have a local | 3:15:36 | 3:15:40 | |
WASPI campaigner from Moray today,
one of whom is Jennifer Matheson, | 3:15:40 | 3:15:45 | |
who is fresh from abseiling from a
building recently to raise funds and | 3:15:45 | 3:15:51 | |
resplendent in her WASPI colours to
show her the continued support for | 3:15:51 | 3:15:55 | |
this campaign. And can I put on
record my support for Shula Forbes | 3:15:55 | 3:16:00 | |
who leads the Moray WASPI campaign.
I have spoken in debates previously | 3:16:00 | 3:16:04 | |
and today I want to focus on local
case studies to ensure the effects | 3:16:04 | 3:16:08 | |
of mark rate to women recorded in
the official report because they are | 3:16:08 | 3:16:14 | |
testimony which is important. One
woman who looks after three | 3:16:14 | 3:16:18 | |
generations as well as holding down
a full-time job but because of the | 3:16:18 | 3:16:21 | |
stress caused by her concerns over
her pension age, she is now off sick | 3:16:21 | 3:16:28 | |
to do with that. Another lady who is
close to me in the chamber says she | 3:16:28 | 3:16:34 | |
is 64, four years without her
pension. She has worked since she | 3:16:34 | 3:16:39 | |
was 16 and has 43 years of National
Insurance contributions. To echo the | 3:16:39 | 3:16:44 | |
comments made by other members
today, this constituent had two | 3:16:44 | 3:16:48 | |
schoolmate born in the same year,
1958, one in February and one in | 3:16:48 | 3:16:53 | |
July and some already have their
pensions, some nine years -- nine | 3:16:53 | 3:16:58 | |
months apart can mean two years
difference in state pension | 3:16:58 | 3:17:02 | |
pay-outs. Another resigned at 61
from a very stressful job and she | 3:17:02 | 3:17:06 | |
could live from her savings until
she got the pension age at 62, to | 3:17:06 | 3:17:10 | |
find out it had changed to 66. She
had a double whammy of trying to | 3:17:10 | 3:17:16 | |
claim her occupational pension but
was advised if she took it, she | 3:17:16 | 3:17:19 | |
would lose 5% each year before state
retirement age of 66. A constituent | 3:17:19 | 3:17:24 | |
of mine who has a double whammy. In
the short term, I want to finish on | 3:17:24 | 3:17:30 | |
another story from Moray, a carer
for her husband who got a stroke | 3:17:30 | 3:17:34 | |
five years ago and they were going
to use some state pension money to | 3:17:34 | 3:17:37 | |
buy specialist equipment is not
available on the NHS. That is | 3:17:37 | 3:17:41 | |
harrowing, but the key point was she
never received a letter informing | 3:17:41 | 3:17:45 | |
her she would not be getting her
pension at 60. I will quickly give | 3:17:45 | 3:17:48 | |
way. He hits the nail on head, there
are a lot of women who on caring | 3:17:48 | 3:17:56 | |
responsibilities with partners with
life changing health conditions and | 3:17:56 | 3:17:59 | |
it is really important the Minister
takes this into account looking at | 3:17:59 | 3:18:02 | |
the impact on these women and
pension imprecations. I am very | 3:18:02 | 3:18:06 | |
grateful, and we have heard from
both sides of the chamber that | 3:18:06 | 3:18:10 | |
message and I am hopeful the
Minister will take that on board. | 3:18:10 | 3:18:12 | |
The final point about this
constituent, she had lived at the | 3:18:12 | 3:18:17 | |
same address for 27 years, she had
not moved House, the same address | 3:18:17 | 3:18:21 | |
for 27 years and she never received
a single letter from the DWP about | 3:18:21 | 3:18:27 | |
these changes, this is the
inadequacy. I would like to share | 3:18:27 | 3:18:29 | |
the comments, she has sadly left the
chamber, but the honourable lady for | 3:18:29 | 3:18:35 | |
Swansea East and my honourable
friend for East Worthing, who was | 3:18:35 | 3:18:39 | |
speaking about the study into this,
it is something I'd fully support | 3:18:39 | 3:18:42 | |
and I was at the launch and
Westminster Hall recently. There | 3:18:42 | 3:18:45 | |
have been 90 submissions so far and
we need more, this is an opportunity | 3:18:45 | 3:18:49 | |
for WASPI across the country to get
involved in this study to ensure | 3:18:49 | 3:18:54 | |
that we have a process to go through
to offer something to the Minister | 3:18:54 | 3:18:59 | |
and the Government. We want to
identify a solution and it is | 3:18:59 | 3:19:03 | |
important that women affected by
these changes are involved in that. | 3:19:03 | 3:19:06 | |
To conclude, all 3.8 women, WASPI
women agree with equalisation, we | 3:19:06 | 3:19:14 | |
heard that today across the chamber.
-- 3.8 million women. Does he shared | 3:19:14 | 3:19:20 | |
concerns many here have that those
doing physical and maybe mean all | 3:19:20 | 3:19:25 | |
work are unable to work for another
two more years because of the | 3:19:25 | 3:19:31 | |
position, does he agree government
should consider those who are | 3:19:31 | 3:19:33 | |
physically unable to work and cope
with the extra two years and should | 3:19:33 | 3:19:38 | |
action be taken to help them? I
could only raise some of the | 3:19:38 | 3:19:43 | |
testimonies I had from Moray WASPI
women and I would have included | 3:19:43 | 3:19:49 | |
those women who are continuing with
difficult jobs who have worked in | 3:19:49 | 3:19:53 | |
these sectors for so long, sectors
where they perceive gender | 3:19:53 | 3:19:58 | |
inequality during their working
life. They suffered when they were | 3:19:58 | 3:20:00 | |
working and they thought they were
come into retirement age and they | 3:20:00 | 3:20:04 | |
have continued strenuous work into a
period they felt they would have | 3:20:04 | 3:20:06 | |
been retired. There have been
hard-working, conscientious | 3:20:06 | 3:20:11 | |
employees for so long and they
deserve our support. I would hope | 3:20:11 | 3:20:14 | |
the many here with us today and
around the country watching this | 3:20:14 | 3:20:20 | |
debate will feel there is support
around this chamber and across the | 3:20:20 | 3:20:23 | |
parties. My key issue is the lack of
notification. I think it is | 3:20:23 | 3:20:31 | |
indefensible of any government, and
this is not just this current | 3:20:31 | 3:20:35 | |
government, it is not just decisions
made by this Conservative | 3:20:35 | 3:20:38 | |
government, it is across the green
benches. The Mets have let these | 3:20:38 | 3:20:42 | |
women down by not ensuring they have
the notification required to make | 3:20:42 | 3:20:46 | |
plans for the future -- governments.
They were faced with a cliff edge | 3:20:46 | 3:20:50 | |
with no prior notice. That is wrong
and that is why I support the WASPI | 3:20:50 | 3:20:56 | |
women. I also support the very
positive contribution we have had | 3:20:56 | 3:21:01 | |
earlier, we are fighting for an
entitlement. This is something these | 3:21:01 | 3:21:04 | |
ladies have paid into their entire
life and we are fighting for an | 3:21:04 | 3:21:08 | |
entitlement, not something they
should have to fight for, they | 3:21:08 | 3:21:11 | |
should be given that. That is why I
believe that the end of their | 3:21:11 | 3:21:15 | |
contract, they entered into a
contract with the Government that's | 3:21:15 | 3:21:17 | |
it at the end, you would receive
this pension, at this age, and that | 3:21:17 | 3:21:21 | |
is an entitlement and that is why I
support them in fighting for that | 3:21:21 | 3:21:25 | |
and I support the Moray WASPI women,
all the back row -- one in the | 3:21:25 | 3:21:34 | |
chamber and all those WASPI women
watching at home. I would like to | 3:21:34 | 3:21:39 | |
pay to Bute as well to my honourable
friend from Easington for the | 3:21:39 | 3:21:44 | |
tireless work you has done on this
issue. There are many people in this | 3:21:44 | 3:21:50 | |
House on both sides of the chamber
who do not see pensions as a burden. | 3:21:50 | 3:21:54 | |
Rather, an expression of collective
solidarity amongst generations. We | 3:21:54 | 3:22:00 | |
are proud pensions, it is part of a
clue of a civilised society and we | 3:22:00 | 3:22:05 | |
will always defend them and we speak
up for the WASPI women. I am | 3:22:05 | 3:22:10 | |
representing many of my constituents
who are among the millions of women, | 3:22:10 | 3:22:13 | |
half of whom are rock letter Day,
who have suffered as a result of | 3:22:13 | 3:22:18 | |
government policy on pensions. --
they are up there today. Many of the | 3:22:18 | 3:22:23 | |
cases members raised to date will
tell fundamentally the same story. | 3:22:23 | 3:22:29 | |
It is important they get told
because this is not just the brazen | 3:22:29 | 3:22:39 | |
wrongness of the injustice, but the
scale. 3.8 million women being | 3:22:39 | 3:22:43 | |
robbed of that which they were
promised. This is a huge scandal. | 3:22:43 | 3:22:48 | |
And it must be faced up to big
government and as soon as possible. | 3:22:48 | 3:22:52 | |
While I do have case studies to
tell, constituents perhaps one of | 3:22:52 | 3:22:56 | |
the most chilling of them, it is I
have been asked by my local 1950s | 3:22:56 | 3:23:01 | |
women's groups to make them
anonymous to not reveal their | 3:23:01 | 3:23:06 | |
identities because some of the women
have been reduced to the poverty and | 3:23:06 | 3:23:11 | |
embarrassment, and that is shocking.
Women who have spent their whole | 3:23:11 | 3:23:15 | |
lives either working or caring for
others. Women in their 60s who | 3:23:15 | 3:23:19 | |
entire life plans were based on the
knowledge that they would be | 3:23:19 | 3:23:22 | |
receiving pensions in a given year
have been tossed casually onto the | 3:23:22 | 3:23:26 | |
benefits system with its attendant
humiliations. And in the case of my | 3:23:26 | 3:23:31 | |
constituent, forced to go out and
get cleaning jobs on the Minimum | 3:23:31 | 3:23:34 | |
Wage. Almost as bad as the financial
robbery is the humiliation and the | 3:23:34 | 3:23:41 | |
insult. Another now forced to sell
her home because she is unable to | 3:23:41 | 3:23:46 | |
qualify for benefits, to sell the
only asset she had acquired in a | 3:23:46 | 3:23:49 | |
lifetime of work and service. I have
mentioned the numbers of those | 3:23:49 | 3:23:57 | |
affected. There is another element
that makes the scandal a terrible | 3:23:57 | 3:24:01 | |
stain on all others in this place,
and that is the perpetrator of the | 3:24:01 | 3:24:06 | |
injustice. It has not been carried
out by some faceless corporate | 3:24:06 | 3:24:10 | |
financial mega business in Panama or
some fly by night we were dealer, | 3:24:10 | 3:24:16 | |
but by Her Majesty's government. I
am chair of the APPG on their | 3:24:16 | 3:24:22 | |
banking and we have found alarming
evidence of malpractice and fraud in | 3:24:22 | 3:24:25 | |
our financial sector that is truly
disgraceful. And trust and faith in | 3:24:25 | 3:24:31 | |
our financial sector is no
shockingly low. Why should we be | 3:24:31 | 3:24:36 | |
surprised by what is happening in
the private sector if the Government | 3:24:36 | 3:24:39 | |
itself, the same government which is
supposed to regulate and keep the | 3:24:39 | 3:24:42 | |
system there, is so ready to
casually rip off millions of women? | 3:24:42 | 3:24:48 | |
Trust, as we know it, is hard won
and easily lost. And yet without it, | 3:24:48 | 3:24:52 | |
the entire basis of consent under
which democratic government operates | 3:24:52 | 3:24:57 | |
is lost. If we allow this injustice
to persist, we will be doing our | 3:24:57 | 3:25:03 | |
entire country a great disservice. I
call on the Government to bring | 3:25:03 | 3:25:06 | |
forward a pair and reasonable plan
to solve this without delay. -- if | 3:25:06 | 3:25:11 | |
there. It is a great pleasure to
follow my friend from Norwich South | 3:25:11 | 3:25:17 | |
who so eloquently described the
problems in his area. I would like | 3:25:17 | 3:25:22 | |
to extend my congratulations to the
member for Easington for securing | 3:25:22 | 3:25:25 | |
this debate. And especially the
WASPI women in the UK who continue | 3:25:25 | 3:25:32 | |
despite four Justice and continue
their fight to be heard. This debate | 3:25:32 | 3:25:38 | |
has rightly discussed on many
occasions and link the | 3:25:38 | 3:25:42 | |
technicalities of why we are in the
position we are here today. It boils | 3:25:42 | 3:25:47 | |
down to poor notice, poor care and
an apathy for many years. It is time | 3:25:47 | 3:25:54 | |
that finished. There has been
maladministration and it is time we | 3:25:54 | 3:25:59 | |
stand up and admit that, face the
consequences and across this House | 3:25:59 | 3:26:03 | |
and across the United Kingdom, find
a way to successfully ended. I would | 3:26:03 | 3:26:09 | |
like to take this opportunity to
raise two cases from East Lothian, | 3:26:09 | 3:26:14 | |
constituents would just over 6,000
women affected by this. Diana was | 3:26:14 | 3:26:19 | |
born in 1952, she worked full-time
and in 1969 was told that she had to | 3:26:19 | 3:26:26 | |
pay the full National Insurance
contribution to make sure that she | 3:26:26 | 3:26:29 | |
would get her full pension at 60.
This, she did. Having started work | 3:26:29 | 3:26:36 | |
at 16 and attended evening classes
and worked through day release to | 3:26:36 | 3:26:39 | |
carry on with her job, unable to
attend college because her parents | 3:26:39 | 3:26:43 | |
could not afford it, she worked her
entire working life. Going | 3:26:43 | 3:26:48 | |
part-time, when her children arrived
to look after them. She has paid in | 3:26:48 | 3:26:53 | |
for 44 years. Today, you need to
only contribute 30 years to | 3:26:53 | 3:27:00 | |
guarantee a full pension, she has
contributed 14 years longer than | 3:27:00 | 3:27:05 | |
that. She was not informed her
pension age was changing from 60, | 3:27:05 | 3:27:09 | |
she was not informed she was going
to get a reduced pension and she | 3:27:09 | 3:27:12 | |
rightly feels she genuinely rightly
feels that she has been let down by | 3:27:12 | 3:27:20 | |
her country. The second case I would
like to raise is Lorna. Born in | 3:27:20 | 3:27:26 | |
1954, she started one month before
his 16th birthday, she now has two | 3:27:26 | 3:27:31 | |
grandchildren raised by her and her
husband and both of them have paid | 3:27:31 | 3:27:35 | |
their way their entire lives and
provided for their family. She | 3:27:35 | 3:27:39 | |
always believed she would receive
her state pension on her 60th | 3:27:39 | 3:27:43 | |
birthday date, but it did not occur.
His sister, born in 1953, received | 3:27:43 | 3:27:48 | |
her pension at 63. And she has to
wait until she is 66. Her husband | 3:27:48 | 3:27:56 | |
works full-time, 12 hour shifts.
Lorna is not well, she has huge | 3:27:56 | 3:28:00 | |
mobility problems and significant
other problems. Her husband will not | 3:28:00 | 3:28:05 | |
receive his pension until 2022, he
is two years younger than she is, | 3:28:05 | 3:28:11 | |
they still have a mortgage to pay
and still have the contribute to | 3:28:11 | 3:28:16 | |
that. If she had received her
pension at 60, she would be able to | 3:28:16 | 3:28:19 | |
live a life that shows some -- some
respects, this has been removed from | 3:28:19 | 3:28:24 | |
her and so many women we have heard
about today, so many who are here in | 3:28:24 | 3:28:30 | |
the gallery, so many women around
the country. Now is the time for | 3:28:30 | 3:28:35 | |
this Government to listen. We have
heard cross bench support for | 3:28:35 | 3:28:39 | |
proposals that would rectify this.
Now is the time we give justice to | 3:28:39 | 3:28:43 | |
the WASPI women.
I congratulate my honourable friend | 3:28:43 | 3:28:50 | |
from Easington to secure this
debate. I speak in support of this | 3:28:50 | 3:28:55 | |
motion. I will fight for the right
of 1950s women to obtain what they | 3:28:55 | 3:29:01 | |
are entitled to. The way these women
have been treated by this Government | 3:29:01 | 3:29:06 | |
is disgusting and downright
disrespectful, it is totally | 3:29:06 | 3:29:09 | |
unacceptable that women born in the
1950s are suffering from financial | 3:29:09 | 3:29:14 | |
hardship because the Government
failed to communicate state pension | 3:29:14 | 3:29:16 | |
rights with them effectively. My
honourable friend from Swansea East | 3:29:16 | 3:29:20 | |
to travels widely across the country
to fight for 1950s women will also | 3:29:20 | 3:29:26 | |
attend an event in | 3:29:26 | 3:29:34 | |
Some women were only given one year
's notice and others got five years | 3:29:35 | 3:29:39 | |
warning. We, on these benches,
recognise the injustice these women | 3:29:39 | 3:29:43 | |
have been doubtful. These policies
policies prompt legal action. Our | 3:29:43 | 3:29:53 | |
policies are tangible. The action at
the Goodman could take note women in | 3:29:53 | 3:29:56 | |
their 60s are not facing
homelessness through the broken | 3:29:56 | 3:30:02 | |
system of Universal Credit. -- the
Government. When discussing this | 3:30:02 | 3:30:10 | |
inequality, it is important to note
that these are women's lives that | 3:30:10 | 3:30:14 | |
are affected. Indeed there are many
nineteen fifties Waspi women in my | 3:30:14 | 3:30:19 | |
constituency with harrowing stories
that illustrate the personal impact | 3:30:19 | 3:30:24 | |
pension inequality has. My
constituent's mother was born in | 3:30:24 | 3:30:29 | |
April 1953 footer she was an
extremely hard work and work all | 3:30:29 | 3:30:32 | |
alive. She split from her husband 20
years ago and was working full-time, | 3:30:32 | 3:30:38 | |
raising a child as a single mother.
But though she loved to work and she | 3:30:38 | 3:30:42 | |
was looking forward to a much
deserved retirement at the age of | 3:30:42 | 3:30:47 | |
60. After 60 her attitude changed.
She would say things like, I would | 3:30:47 | 3:30:52 | |
not know what to do if I retired.
During this time she was still | 3:30:52 | 3:30:56 | |
travelling and working five or six
days a week at a garden centre. | 3:30:56 | 3:31:01 | |
After she turned 60, she decided to
take a job out of the blue closer to | 3:31:01 | 3:31:09 | |
home at another garden centre and
she said it was not so difficult to | 3:31:09 | 3:31:12 | |
get to it. Her family would keep
going on to her about retiring but | 3:31:12 | 3:31:15 | |
she said you did not really want to.
Changes in the state pension act | 3:31:15 | 3:31:18 | |
would mean instead of retiring in
2013 she would have to wait till | 3:31:18 | 3:31:26 | |
2016 foot like many Waspi women she
was given very little notice her | 3:31:26 | 3:31:31 | |
retirement age would change. Sadly
she passed away of pneumonia in | 3:31:31 | 3:31:35 | |
2015. She refused to slow down. It
was ultimately what led to her | 3:31:35 | 3:31:42 | |
death. It was only after her death
and dealing with the state that the | 3:31:42 | 3:31:46 | |
family realised it was not because
she did not want to retire but she | 3:31:46 | 3:31:50 | |
felt she could not retire. Despite
best efforts to convince her mother | 3:31:50 | 3:31:57 | |
otherwise, she did not want to tell
them because you did not want them | 3:31:57 | 3:31:59 | |
to worry. This has caused so much
distress to have family who feel | 3:31:59 | 3:32:06 | |
that when she retired, if she had
retired when she originally planned | 3:32:06 | 3:32:10 | |
that she would have lived longer
even with her COPD. My constituent | 3:32:10 | 3:32:15 | |
and many like her, after a lifetime
of work, should not be put through | 3:32:15 | 3:32:19 | |
such an ordeal. This would mean
state pension equalisation would | 3:32:19 | 3:32:27 | |
have fared transitional arrangements
for women born on or after six of | 3:32:27 | 3:32:34 | |
April 19 50. Myself, along with
honourable friends on these benches, | 3:32:34 | 3:32:38 | |
would continue to fight and work
with the 1950s women to right the | 3:32:38 | 3:32:41 | |
wrong they have been dealt. Thank
you. I want to start by paying | 3:32:41 | 3:32:49 | |
tribute and dedicating a speech to
my good friend and sister, Mary | 3:32:49 | 3:32:52 | |
Moore will stop as I speak, her
family will be attending her burial | 3:32:52 | 3:32:59 | |
service with the knowledge that Mary
will be the first to ask me to speak | 3:32:59 | 3:33:03 | |
out and stand up for her generation
of women, the Waspi women. Want to | 3:33:03 | 3:33:09 | |
thank my honourable friend for
Easington who is a tireless champion | 3:33:09 | 3:33:12 | |
of working people and for the Waspi
women in this House. We have come to | 3:33:12 | 3:33:17 | |
debate and issue of fairness and
decency and what is right and what | 3:33:17 | 3:33:22 | |
is wrong. The Waspi women in Glasgow
and Lanarkshire are watching this | 3:33:22 | 3:33:30 | |
live in Glasgow today. Banks making
that possible. The Waspi women are | 3:33:30 | 3:33:39 | |
watching, the Waspi women are
listening and they deserve action, | 3:33:39 | 3:33:43 | |
honesty, decency and equality and I
say to them, I am with you and I | 3:33:43 | 3:33:50 | |
know this side of the House is with
you as well. Like many members of | 3:33:50 | 3:33:55 | |
the House I have campaigned with,
welcomed to my surgery, cried with a | 3:33:55 | 3:34:01 | |
listened to the Waspi women and
their stories. Take Helen, for | 3:34:01 | 3:34:06 | |
examples that she lives in my
constituency for such was born in | 3:34:06 | 3:34:10 | |
1954. On January the 18th she will
be celebrating her 64th birthday. | 3:34:10 | 3:34:15 | |
Helen has spent her adult life
working was about job comes to an | 3:34:15 | 3:34:20 | |
end in April. If we were to follow
the advice of the minister, the | 3:34:20 | 3:34:24 | |
member for Hexham. Either she
applies for jobseeker's allowance or | 3:34:24 | 3:34:27 | |
she applies for an apprenticeship.
Yes, you didn't hear me, an | 3:34:27 | 3:34:34 | |
apprenticeship at 64. Well, I think
she should be able to claim her | 3:34:34 | 3:34:38 | |
pension, enjoy her dignity and
respect. Helen, and women like her, | 3:34:38 | 3:34:42 | |
should not be singing their
favourite song, will you still need | 3:34:42 | 3:34:50 | |
me, will you still feed me when I am
64? Yes, Helen, we do still need you | 3:34:50 | 3:34:56 | |
and yes, Helen, we will still
feeding. Madam Speaker, I would like | 3:34:56 | 3:35:01 | |
the minister to know why the meeting
was refuelled with the Waspi | 3:35:01 | 3:35:05 | |
campaign. I know I requested to meet
the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of | 3:35:05 | 3:35:10 | |
State for financial inclusion and
has been turned down several times. | 3:35:10 | 3:35:12 | |
I would like to know why. The
Government has a duty to bring the | 3:35:12 | 3:35:19 | |
country to its people together and I
want to know why they have not and | 3:35:19 | 3:35:23 | |
will not. A few short weeks ago, I
was very pleased to be able to lead | 3:35:23 | 3:35:29 | |
my first Westminster Hall debate.
There was a state pension age. It | 3:35:29 | 3:35:32 | |
was a good debate and I was very
grateful for the people who joined | 3:35:32 | 3:35:37 | |
us. I stood up for the constituents
on our side. Madam Speaker, there | 3:35:37 | 3:35:45 | |
were only two interventions from the
Tory backbenches. They had an | 3:35:45 | 3:35:49 | |
opportunity to speak up and they
never took it. In winding up, this | 3:35:49 | 3:35:55 | |
House must stand up for working
people. There needs to be a voice in | 3:35:55 | 3:36:01 | |
this chamber for decent working
people. I have had so many e-mails | 3:36:01 | 3:36:06 | |
and letters from Waspi women. It has
been an honour to receive every one | 3:36:06 | 3:36:10 | |
of them. I say to this government
don't mess with the Waspi women. I | 3:36:10 | 3:36:15 | |
say to them and I say to the women
in the gallery, and the woman back | 3:36:15 | 3:36:21 | |
home in Glasgow, until justice is
done, I will be fighting with you. | 3:36:21 | 3:36:25 | |
Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you.
During the many questions and | 3:36:25 | 3:36:32 | |
debates on pensions for women, we
have heard the facts, the figures | 3:36:32 | 3:36:36 | |
and the dates that the 3.8 million
women affected. I am not going to | 3:36:36 | 3:36:40 | |
quote figures and I am not going to
talk about dates was instead I'm | 3:36:40 | 3:36:43 | |
going to talk to you about a woman I
met a few weeks ago I'm going to | 3:36:43 | 3:36:47 | |
referred to as Mary full she came to
see me during a particularly wet and | 3:36:47 | 3:36:52 | |
cold morning surgery. When she
arrived she was visibly shaking and | 3:36:52 | 3:36:57 | |
upset because she had slipped over
on the wet leaves walking into the | 3:36:57 | 3:37:03 | |
room. I offered to meet her another
time that she was so insistent she | 3:37:03 | 3:37:06 | |
wanted to speak to me that morning
and she apologised for being late | 3:37:06 | 3:37:09 | |
and explained it was because she was
so tired it was making her clumsy. I | 3:37:09 | 3:37:14 | |
asked how I could help her and she
Tomic was currently on bereavement | 3:37:14 | 3:37:18 | |
leave. Her son had died in July and
despite support from work are Greece | 3:37:18 | 3:37:25 | |
made it impossible for her to return
to work in the local supermarket. -- | 3:37:25 | 3:37:30 | |
her grief. She also cared for her
husband who had a degenerative | 3:37:30 | 3:37:35 | |
condition. His health had declined
to a point where he could not get | 3:37:35 | 3:37:38 | |
out of his chair and needed constant
care, which is why she did not want | 3:37:38 | 3:37:43 | |
to rearrange she was adamant she
needed me to hear her stories and | 3:37:43 | 3:37:46 | |
she told me she did not find out she
would have to work till 65 until | 3:37:46 | 3:37:52 | |
2013. She said the memory with vivid
in her mind and she had been told by | 3:37:52 | 3:38:00 | |
a work colleague. She said she did
not believe it at first. She went | 3:38:00 | 3:38:03 | |
home and found the pension line and
was in shock. We know she is not the | 3:38:03 | 3:38:08 | |
only one. The Department for Work
and Pensions fell to record how many | 3:38:08 | 3:38:12 | |
letters were returned and delivered
and no further action was taken to | 3:38:12 | 3:38:15 | |
trace women who had not received
letters. A few years previously, | 3:38:15 | 3:38:20 | |
Mary Posner mother had become ill.
She had to make the choice either to | 3:38:20 | 3:38:24 | |
go part-time at work and give up a
management position to care for her | 3:38:24 | 3:38:29 | |
mum or she continued to work and
sort carers for her. Mary believed | 3:38:29 | 3:38:33 | |
she only had few years until she had
a pension. She made the decision to | 3:38:33 | 3:38:41 | |
go part time and care for her mum in
the past two years of her life. Her | 3:38:41 | 3:38:44 | |
decision to care for her mum go part
time, her work pension is sparsely | 3:38:44 | 3:38:48 | |
reduced. She is so broken by grief
at the moment that she cannot work. | 3:38:48 | 3:38:53 | |
She is watching her husband 's
decline and she faces her retirement | 3:38:53 | 3:38:57 | |
as a widow. Knowing that her pension
was changing at an early date would | 3:38:57 | 3:39:02 | |
not have stopped what happened to
her son, or her husbands or her | 3:39:02 | 3:39:06 | |
mother, but it would have enabled
her to have made an informed choice | 3:39:06 | 3:39:12 | |
about whether to have continued in
full-time employment or not but | 3:39:12 | 3:39:15 | |
which could have resulted in her
wasting her retirement as a widow in | 3:39:15 | 3:39:17 | |
a much more comfortable situation
than the one she now faces. Millions | 3:39:17 | 3:39:21 | |
of women across the country are
living in financial difficulty | 3:39:21 | 3:39:25 | |
because of the mismanagement of
these changes. Having made important | 3:39:25 | 3:39:30 | |
life decisions in the expectation
that they would receive their | 3:39:30 | 3:39:33 | |
pension at the age of 16. Madam
Deputy Speaker, I accept that even a | 3:39:33 | 3:39:40 | |
Labour government cannot change what
happened to Mary. But I do strongly | 3:39:40 | 3:39:44 | |
believe that it is the job of every
government but no, a job of every | 3:39:44 | 3:39:48 | |
person to reach out a hand to help
people back up when they have been | 3:39:48 | 3:39:53 | |
knocked down by life. This
government can address this up in | 3:39:53 | 3:39:56 | |
anyway they like but we all know
there has been an injustice done to | 3:39:56 | 3:40:03 | |
the 1950s women, like Mary. Now they
must right that wrong by introducing | 3:40:03 | 3:40:08 | |
transitional arrangements for all of
the women affected. First off, I | 3:40:08 | 3:40:15 | |
would like to pay tribute to our
honourable colleague, the Member of | 3:40:15 | 3:40:21 | |
Parliament for Easington for
securing the debate. Thank you for | 3:40:21 | 3:40:24 | |
that. Also one of the honourable
member's he, salient points all the | 3:40:24 | 3:40:30 | |
way through his debate was the
complete failure of governments to | 3:40:30 | 3:40:36 | |
actually communicate the changes.
They were initially the Pensions Act | 3:40:36 | 3:40:42 | |
of 1995, which we all know and then
a Labour government and the | 3:40:42 | 3:40:48 | |
coalition after that. I have flagged
in the House before that all the | 3:40:48 | 3:40:54 | |
political parties have let women
down. If you think about it, from | 3:40:54 | 3:40:59 | |
1995 to 2009 was no communication at
all from the DWP to all these women | 3:40:59 | 3:41:05 | |
were some of whom were up there.
That is 14 years when governments | 3:41:05 | 3:41:11 | |
could have informed people, could
have informed these women exactly | 3:41:11 | 3:41:14 | |
what was happening. At least that
way there would have been time for | 3:41:14 | 3:41:18 | |
them to prepare. That did not
happen. That is why so many women | 3:41:18 | 3:41:24 | |
feel justifiably so frustrated,
angry and hurt. What I would like to | 3:41:24 | 3:41:29 | |
do while the minister is here is
tied to make some specific proposals | 3:41:29 | 3:41:34 | |
that the Government can do. This
current government is in charge. | 3:41:34 | 3:41:39 | |
They have the responsibility. First
off, I think, as my honourable | 3:41:39 | 3:41:45 | |
friend, the MP for Easington, has
already flagged, there should be an | 3:41:45 | 3:41:50 | |
opportunity for early access to
pensions credit. I think the | 3:41:50 | 3:41:54 | |
Government should consider using a
proper act for real research where | 3:41:54 | 3:42:01 | |
the Waspi pensioners from the 50s
may be able to take their pension is | 3:42:01 | 3:42:05 | |
earlier, even if it is a lower
amount, and then getting up to the | 3:42:05 | 3:42:09 | |
higher amount by the time they get
to 66. There has to be a financial | 3:42:09 | 3:42:14 | |
cost benefit on it, not least
because a lot of the Waspi women are | 3:42:14 | 3:42:18 | |
in a position where financially they
are facing some real challenges. | 3:42:18 | 3:42:23 | |
Thirdly, I think the Government
should consider very seriously | 3:42:23 | 3:42:26 | |
whatever a flat sum of transition
money. I have a proposal how they | 3:42:26 | 3:42:31 | |
could do this. This government is
absolutely insistent that they are | 3:42:31 | 3:42:39 | |
the party of aspiration. Sometimes
they are and sometimes they are not. | 3:42:39 | 3:42:44 | |
What I would also say is that
Theresa May, when she took over from | 3:42:44 | 3:42:50 | |
David Cameron after the referendum,
said she wanted to help people who | 3:42:50 | 3:42:56 | |
would just about managing full she
wanted to be there for the common | 3:42:56 | 3:42:59 | |
man or woman forced one of the
things the Government is continuing | 3:42:59 | 3:43:03 | |
to do, and it happened in the recent
budget, if they are continuing to | 3:43:03 | 3:43:08 | |
cut corporation tax. I have a
proposal for the Government was a | 3:43:08 | 3:43:12 | |
lot of businesses would accept this.
Why not disarray one year, 12 | 3:43:12 | 3:43:20 | |
months, of corporation tax cut, take
that money to ensure that the Waspi | 3:43:20 | 3:43:26 | |
women actually have a sufficient
amount for a transition payment that | 3:43:26 | 3:43:31 | |
makes it a little less difficult? I
have a suggestion I think will fly | 3:43:31 | 3:43:37 | |
across parties and out there. I
think a lot of corporations will | 3:43:37 | 3:43:41 | |
say, fine but we will do it. We
appreciate that Waspi women have | 3:43:41 | 3:43:46 | |
been short-changed because for over
a decade they were not informed. We | 3:43:46 | 3:43:50 | |
will accept that. It is just an
idea. I will save to the minister, | 3:43:50 | 3:43:55 | |
it is time for this government
seriously not just to allow all | 3:43:55 | 3:43:59 | |
these debates backbench or otherwise
but to actually have a debate where | 3:43:59 | 3:44:02 | |
there is a vote. My final question
is directly to the minister. Listen | 3:44:02 | 3:44:08 | |
to people across the House. Give us
a proper vote of this issue. I | 3:44:08 | 3:44:13 | |
believe a lot of your backbenchers
will support us. It takes a | 3:44:13 | 3:44:18 | |
particular talent to transform the
changing of an injustice into a | 3:44:18 | 3:44:27 | |
justice. In other words, bringing in
equality for men and women in | 3:44:27 | 3:44:32 | |
pensions into a massive injustice
for all the women we are talking | 3:44:32 | 3:44:35 | |
about from the 1950s. And that is
what has happened. The writing of a | 3:44:35 | 3:44:40 | |
wrong has been turned into a new
wrong. What we, everybody in this | 3:44:40 | 3:44:46 | |
House is saying, apart from a few
people who want to be desperately | 3:44:46 | 3:44:49 | |
loyal to the Government in their
hour of need, is that this really, | 3:44:49 | 3:44:54 | |
really does need resolving. The
injustice is twofold. It is not just | 3:44:54 | 3:44:58 | |
that the process was speeded up
suddenly. | 3:44:58 | 3:45:07 | |
I contacted 3,000 women we thought
might have been affected and I was | 3:45:07 | 3:45:11 | |
amazed that people came to a meeting
and they said, the first time I | 3:45:11 | 3:45:14 | |
realised I was going to be affected
was when I got a letter from the! | 3:45:14 | 3:45:19 | |
For heaven 's sake, the Government
knows when they are going to retire, | 3:45:19 | 3:45:25 | |
they have the information, they
should have got in touch. This is | 3:45:25 | 3:45:29 | |
not a partisan point, this is as
true of the Labour government as it | 3:45:29 | 3:45:33 | |
has been of the Coalition and the
present government. Nobody did the | 3:45:33 | 3:45:38 | |
due diligence of making sure all the
women who are going to be affected | 3:45:38 | 3:45:41 | |
knew about it. And as I say the
great Western Railway every time | 3:45:41 | 3:45:46 | |
they forget to give as information
about the train that has been | 3:45:46 | 3:45:50 | |
delayed, you can just make one
announcement, you can just send one | 3:45:50 | 3:45:54 | |
letter. These are complicated
matters and The Post gets mixed up | 3:45:54 | 3:45:59 | |
with something else or it gets
delivered to the wrong place. You | 3:45:59 | 3:46:02 | |
have to make sure, it was the
Government's job to make sure | 3:46:02 | 3:46:06 | |
everybody knew what was going to
happen. It is one thing to be told | 3:46:06 | 3:46:10 | |
in 30 years' time or 15 years your
pension is not going to be what you | 3:46:10 | 3:46:14 | |
thought it was going to be. It is
quite another suddenly to discover, | 3:46:14 | 3:46:19 | |
with moments to spare, that you
going to have to work extra years. | 3:46:19 | 3:46:25 | |
In my experience, in my
constituency, it is women who have | 3:46:25 | 3:46:29 | |
been beautiful. They have slaved
their way through their life. They | 3:46:29 | 3:46:38 | |
have worked from the age of 15, some
of them, doing tough jobs for | 3:46:38 | 3:46:42 | |
minimal pay and physically demanding
jobs often. The word often used is, | 3:46:42 | 3:46:49 | |
frankly, I am clapped-out! I have no
more energy to go on it -- an | 3:46:49 | 3:46:55 | |
apprenticeship scheme to do
something else. I would if I could, | 3:46:55 | 3:46:58 | |
that is in my nature, but there is
nothing left in me. So that feels | 3:46:58 | 3:47:03 | |
like a terrible injustice. But there
is another thing here, and I see | 3:47:03 | 3:47:09 | |
this in the Rhondda Valley. If you
do a map of deprivation across the | 3:47:09 | 3:47:16 | |
country, this is not something we're
proud of, it is a fact that people | 3:47:16 | 3:47:21 | |
have less money, they probably will
end up working many more hours to | 3:47:21 | 3:47:25 | |
put food on the table. And it in a
community such as mine, this makes a | 3:47:25 | 3:47:32 | |
great difference. This in justice is
very toughly felt. Because they | 3:47:32 | 3:47:36 | |
don't have savings to fall back on.
They have not got lots of extra | 3:47:36 | 3:47:42 | |
money, family members to turn to.
And often now, this generation of | 3:47:42 | 3:47:47 | |
women looking after elderly
relatives in their '80s and 90s as | 3:47:47 | 3:47:50 | |
well. This is impacting on my entire
community. One final thing, I pay | 3:47:50 | 3:47:56 | |
enormous tribute to a woman in my
constituent see running the campaign | 3:47:56 | 3:48:01 | |
in the Rhondda. I know you are a
decent man, the Government Minister, | 3:48:01 | 3:48:05 | |
but just trying to top this out for
years and years and years and hope | 3:48:05 | 3:48:09 | |
it will go away, it just is not
going to work. The Rhondda women | 3:48:09 | 3:48:15 | |
want justice and by heaven, they
will get it! Can I start by thanking | 3:48:15 | 3:48:22 | |
my honourable friend for Islington
for his excellent work on this | 3:48:22 | 3:48:27 | |
issue? This is a very important and
serious issue the women of our | 3:48:27 | 3:48:32 | |
country are facing who were born in
1950. The 5,500 women in Bedford are | 3:48:32 | 3:48:39 | |
are affected by the pension changes
drawn up with little or no notice | 3:48:39 | 3:48:42 | |
and with no time to make alternative
plans for such a large event. I was | 3:48:42 | 3:48:49 | |
very pleased to hear last week that
Bedford Borough Council voted to | 3:48:49 | 3:48:53 | |
support those women through the
WASPI campaign. Depriving people of | 3:48:53 | 3:48:58 | |
the money they have worked for and
have been entitled is one of the | 3:48:58 | 3:49:06 | |
greatest injustices imposed on a
large section of our society. But it | 3:49:06 | 3:49:10 | |
is not just about the injustice. The
women I have spoken to from the | 3:49:10 | 3:49:18 | |
brilliant Bedford WASPI group told
me they have been robbed of their | 3:49:18 | 3:49:23 | |
money. Their independence, pride,
future and even their homes. Some of | 3:49:23 | 3:49:29 | |
those women are here today. Many
women are destitute. I know of one | 3:49:29 | 3:49:39 | |
woman now living in sheltered
accommodation with her mother | 3:49:39 | 3:49:42 | |
because especially women on their
own do not have the safety net of | 3:49:42 | 3:49:49 | |
partners and could not replan their
lives with less than five or | 3:49:49 | 3:49:55 | |
sometimes less than two years
notice. The women I spoke to said | 3:49:55 | 3:49:59 | |
they were not opposed to the pension
age going up, but the way it was | 3:49:59 | 3:50:03 | |
handled. The first shift in the
pension age was bad, but the second | 3:50:03 | 3:50:08 | |
time the goalposts were moved under
the Coalition Government was the | 3:50:08 | 3:50:15 | |
straw that broke the camel's back.
One woman told me that she tries to | 3:50:15 | 3:50:18 | |
carry on working, but health
problems got the better of her and | 3:50:18 | 3:50:23 | |
she could not carry on. She said
after decades of work and looking | 3:50:23 | 3:50:29 | |
after an elderly parent, she was
left with nothing more to give. His | 3:50:29 | 3:50:34 | |
story is common. Which is why on
hearing the Government telling women | 3:50:34 | 3:50:39 | |
in their 60s who have worked all
their lives to get on their bike and | 3:50:39 | 3:50:43 | |
get another job was yet another
insult. One woman told me she was | 3:50:43 | 3:50:50 | |
particularly upset that WASPI women
were part -- were pitted against the | 3:50:50 | 3:50:55 | |
younger generation and made to feel
greedy or scroungers for fighting | 3:50:55 | 3:51:00 | |
for the money they had saved for
when young people cannot even afford | 3:51:00 | 3:51:06 | |
a home. But she said her
grandchildren were right behind the | 3:51:06 | 3:51:12 | |
WASPI campaign because they knew
that fighting for her rights was | 3:51:12 | 3:51:15 | |
also fighting for their own rights
in the future. Dividing and ruling | 3:51:15 | 3:51:19 | |
is not working on this issue and the
Government need to understand young | 3:51:19 | 3:51:24 | |
people feel very strongly about this
on behalf of their grandparents. | 3:51:24 | 3:51:29 | |
Another woman said the experience
had left her feeling less of a human | 3:51:29 | 3:51:35 | |
being and was only the support of
the WASPI movement is knowing that | 3:51:35 | 3:51:40 | |
their millions of women who feel the
same way that has helped her to cope | 3:51:40 | 3:51:44 | |
with this. The Government has yet to
come up with one good reason. And | 3:51:44 | 3:51:57 | |
for those who have already reached
their pension. The WASPI women | 3:51:57 | 3:52:02 | |
asking for less than they are due
and it is about time they were given | 3:52:02 | 3:52:07 | |
it, thank you. I would like to thank
the member for Easington for | 3:52:07 | 3:52:14 | |
bringing this motion into the House.
The Government's handling of this | 3:52:14 | 3:52:21 | |
issue has been shambolic and the
rightful source of much frustration | 3:52:21 | 3:52:26 | |
and anger. From women born in the
1950s. As previously stated on all | 3:52:26 | 3:52:31 | |
sides of the House, the lack of
communication from previous | 3:52:31 | 3:52:36 | |
governments has meant that those
born in the 1950s were receiving | 3:52:36 | 3:52:40 | |
letters stating that their pension
age had increased by six years. And | 3:52:40 | 3:52:45 | |
a large proportion of these women
only received this letter when they | 3:52:45 | 3:52:50 | |
were 59 and therefore within a year
of their expected retirement age of | 3:52:50 | 3:52:55 | |
60. And from the stories I have
heard, these were the lucky ones. | 3:52:55 | 3:52:58 | |
These were the lucky women that had
received no communication at all. If | 3:52:58 | 3:53:05 | |
these women had been adequately
informed, sufficient measures could | 3:53:05 | 3:53:10 | |
have been put in place. Madam Deputy
Speaker, it is these women that I | 3:53:10 | 3:53:16 | |
would like to speak on behalf of the
day. I have heard first-hand from | 3:53:16 | 3:53:21 | |
one woman in my constituency who has
a disabled husband and has therefore | 3:53:21 | 3:53:26 | |
been the breadwinner, despite being
in a low paid, physically demanding | 3:53:26 | 3:53:32 | |
job. At 63, she still has to work
every single weekend, despite being | 3:53:32 | 3:53:39 | |
in very poor health herself. She
works weekends instead of resting | 3:53:39 | 3:53:44 | |
and during the week, she helps care
for her grandchildren who have quite | 3:53:44 | 3:53:47 | |
a distance away, in order to help
her own son and daughter-in-law with | 3:53:47 | 3:53:53 | |
the cost of childcare. This woman
never rests. And she is terrified of | 3:53:53 | 3:53:59 | |
going off sick in case she loses her
job. These stories and many others | 3:53:59 | 3:54:05 | |
like this are common throughout the
country and especially in places | 3:54:05 | 3:54:08 | |
like Leigh well of paid local work
unfortunately is commonplace. Had | 3:54:08 | 3:54:13 | |
these women been able to plan for
irate retirement or received | 3:54:13 | 3:54:17 | |
adequate support during their time
of crisis, they may have been able | 3:54:17 | 3:54:22 | |
to retain their independence. The
Government have treated these women | 3:54:22 | 3:54:28 | |
with total disregard, failing to
show any sympathy to those planning | 3:54:28 | 3:54:31 | |
their entire lives around their
state pension age, before the | 3:54:31 | 3:54:35 | |
Government to the goalposts. This
total communication failure has | 3:54:35 | 3:54:41 | |
resulted in an understandable amount
of stress and anxiety amongst | 3:54:41 | 3:54:44 | |
certain groups in particular. And
the effects this will have on their | 3:54:44 | 3:54:49 | |
livelihoods and family and health
has already begun to take effect. | 3:54:49 | 3:54:54 | |
Fortunately for us in Leigh, our
women born in the 1950s have become | 3:54:54 | 3:54:58 | |
a support group. For other women
affected. It is constituted and | 3:54:58 | 3:55:03 | |
become a support organisation, they
can talk and help one another and | 3:55:03 | 3:55:08 | |
plan for their future is with those
in the exact situation they find | 3:55:08 | 3:55:12 | |
themselves in. I therefore wish to
pay particular credit to the Leigh | 3:55:12 | 3:55:18 | |
pension group, who I know we'll be
watching this debate with great | 3:55:18 | 3:55:20 | |
interest. They are an inspirational
group to be around and I am sure the | 3:55:20 | 3:55:25 | |
House would join me in thanking them
for writing such fantastic support | 3:55:25 | 3:55:29 | |
to those women affected. And
generally the 19th, Manchester will | 3:55:29 | 3:55:34 | |
be following the bigger sample of
Leigh in lighting up the Town Hall | 3:55:34 | 3:55:39 | |
in purple in support of WASPI women.
-- on January the 19. It is | 3:55:39 | 3:55:46 | |
important our community show
solidarity and sensate clear message | 3:55:46 | 3:55:49 | |
to those affected that we stand with
you and you will not be alone. -- | 3:55:49 | 3:55:54 | |
sends a clear message.
I think the honourable member for | 3:55:54 | 3:56:01 | |
Islington for prompting this debate.
Before I start, I would like to | 3:56:01 | 3:56:05 | |
declare an interest in this issue,
as I am one of the women affected by | 3:56:05 | 3:56:09 | |
these changes, born in the 1950s.
Surprisingly and unbelievably! But I | 3:56:09 | 3:56:17 | |
am not standing here today speaking
in this debate just for myself. I am | 3:56:17 | 3:56:22 | |
speaking for the 7,000 women in my
constituency of Conan Valley | 3:56:22 | 3:56:29 | |
affected by the shambolic changes
the government has brought in | 3:56:29 | 3:56:33 | |
without warning or notice. -- macro
two. We have heard that those on the | 3:56:33 | 3:56:40 | |
Government benches care about 90
fifties WASPI women and they make | 3:56:40 | 3:56:44 | |
impassioned speeches about the
issue. And then they advise them to | 3:56:44 | 3:56:47 | |
take an apprenticeship. Madam Deputy
Speaker, I do not want to spend time | 3:56:47 | 3:56:53 | |
focusing on the Government benches
and I will focus on the issue before | 3:56:53 | 3:56:56 | |
us. We all know the way the
Government chose to role that these | 3:56:56 | 3:57:01 | |
changes was wrong. Just plain wrong.
We need only to look back through | 3:57:01 | 3:57:06 | |
the official records to see how
often Honourable Members and right | 3:57:06 | 3:57:10 | |
honourable members have spoken on
the issue. Today, I would like to | 3:57:10 | 3:57:15 | |
add my voice. I would like to tell
you about a constituent of mine, | 3:57:15 | 3:57:20 | |
Susan, who lives in the Colne
Valley. When Susan was 49, she | 3:57:20 | 3:57:24 | |
injured herself at work and she
tried to work for several years, but | 3:57:24 | 3:57:27 | |
had to leave, she could not manage.
Susan was meant to get her pension | 3:57:27 | 3:57:32 | |
at 60, then it was moved to 62. Now
it is 65. She gets 500 a month from | 3:57:32 | 3:57:40 | |
a private pension. She is also a
carer for her mother and she earns | 3:57:40 | 3:57:48 | |
£62 a week, 436 hours of care. Susan
has £800 per month live on. And in | 3:57:48 | 3:57:54 | |
£14 of that pays council tax. £80
goes towards her boss there to see | 3:57:54 | 3:58:00 | |
her mother. After her expenses are
taken out, Susan has £50 to live on | 3:58:00 | 3:58:06 | |
per week. She usually eats Weetabix
for her evening meal when she gets | 3:58:06 | 3:58:11 | |
home because that is all she can
afford. She does not get a bus pass | 3:58:11 | 3:58:15 | |
and heating allowance. Susan is on
her own so it does not -- so does | 3:58:15 | 3:58:20 | |
not have the support from a partner.
Can the Minister really tell me that | 3:58:20 | 3:58:24 | |
these changes are not having a
detrimental impact on Susan's | 3:58:24 | 3:58:28 | |
quality-of-life? Let's all for just
a moment but ourselves in Susan's | 3:58:28 | 3:58:35 | |
shoes. Someone who, through no fault
of their own, is unable to work, | 3:58:35 | 3:58:41 | |
with no disposable income at the end
of the month and was providing a | 3:58:41 | 3:58:44 | |
vital service for being a carer for
her mother. Poverty for those | 3:58:44 | 3:58:48 | |
affected by the state pension
changes is a reality. No one in the | 3:58:48 | 3:58:54 | |
UK should be facing a choice between
heating or eating because of the | 3:58:54 | 3:59:00 | |
change this Government has made to
the legislation. Don't ignore the | 3:59:00 | 3:59:05 | |
voices of we 1950s women because we
are not going away. Pay us what we | 3:59:05 | 3:59:10 | |
are due! I am pleased to follow my
honourable friend for Colne Valley | 3:59:10 | 3:59:18 | |
who spoke beautifully. I am also a
1950s woman. But I am speaking in | 3:59:18 | 3:59:24 | |
this debate because there are 6300
of my constituents affected by this. | 3:59:24 | 3:59:32 | |
We are all in favour of
equalisation, but we need a proper | 3:59:32 | 3:59:36 | |
transitional period and that is what
these women have not been given. | 3:59:36 | 3:59:40 | |
That is why it is on there. They had
no time to prepare, no time to save, | 3:59:40 | 3:59:47 | |
their legitimate expectations have
not been met and some have lost | 3:59:47 | 3:59:51 | |
significant amounts of money. Even
though they had been paying National | 3:59:51 | 3:59:55 | |
Insurance contributions for many,
many years. | 3:59:55 | 4:00:01 | |
Ministers say it is because life
expectancy is rising. It is of no | 4:00:01 | 4:00:10 | |
reassurance to people knowing a baby
born our live till 83. When they | 4:00:10 | 4:00:14 | |
were born the average life
expectancy was 72. That's a look at | 4:00:14 | 4:00:18 | |
the differences in different parts
of the country but even in my | 4:00:18 | 4:00:22 | |
constituency, in the most well off
Ward, the healthy life expectancy is | 4:00:22 | 4:00:26 | |
71. But it -- the healthy life
expectancy in another ward is 65 | 4:00:26 | 4:00:37 | |
when I started work in 1979I
expected to retire next year, aged | 4:00:37 | 4:00:42 | |
60. Now I have to work till 2024.
The big difference between me and my | 4:00:42 | 4:00:52 | |
constituents is that I've started
work aged 21, having stayed on at | 4:00:52 | 4:00:57 | |
school, and been a university. Many
of my constituents started work on | 4:00:57 | 4:01:02 | |
leaving school aged 15. Take ruse.
She started aged 15 and she worked | 4:01:02 | 4:01:11 | |
in local government and health. She
has three children and six | 4:01:11 | 4:01:15 | |
grandchildren. She thought she was
retiring at 60 in order to look | 4:01:15 | 4:01:19 | |
after her dear old mum. Now she has
to go back to work to sustain her | 4:01:19 | 4:01:25 | |
husband, her children, her mother.
She says physically, emotionally, | 4:01:25 | 4:01:29 | |
financially, where is the time, help
and energy going to come from? She | 4:01:29 | 4:01:38 | |
is in the same situation. She has
had three jobs to help her family. | 4:01:38 | 4:01:48 | |
Pamela left her job on Friday went
to work on Monday. Jane, working for | 4:01:48 | 4:01:54 | |
70 hours a week from the age of 15
she finished at 54 with a | 4:01:54 | 4:01:59 | |
disability. And Jane and Pamela,
exemplified those people who are now | 4:01:59 | 4:02:05 | |
being moved on to employment support
allowance. They are using up their | 4:02:05 | 4:02:11 | |
savings, which they have put by all
their retirement. They are not | 4:02:11 | 4:02:18 | |
exceptional, they are not unusual,
the number of women aged over 60 has | 4:02:18 | 4:02:24 | |
shot up four fold. I am very
grateful. She has made some very | 4:02:24 | 4:02:33 | |
powerful points. Especially with
regard to women, especially in the | 4:02:33 | 4:02:39 | |
North East. A number of us from, the
Wales and other industrial | 4:02:39 | 4:02:44 | |
heartlands for the women have worked
for almost 50 years and will be in | 4:02:44 | 4:02:47 | |
the position of maybe then having a
very short life expectancy after | 4:02:47 | 4:02:51 | |
they retire. It is just unfair.
Would she agree with me about that | 4:02:51 | 4:02:58 | |
unfairness? I do. My overall message
to ministers that they should stop | 4:02:58 | 4:03:04 | |
looking at the actuarial tables and
start to listen to the way lives are | 4:03:04 | 4:03:07 | |
lived. Because, I have more
examples. Chris wanted to stay on at | 4:03:07 | 4:03:13 | |
school and get more education but
her father made her go out to work | 4:03:13 | 4:03:18 | |
aged 15. Sue, Jane, Diane, Judith
and Jane, they all say the same | 4:03:18 | 4:03:24 | |
thing could Jane has lost £40,000
through this. Dop says, quite | 4:03:24 | 4:03:29 | |
simply, I am so tired. --.. I think
we need to be honest about this and | 4:03:29 | 4:03:36 | |
look at this in a radical wave my
honourable friend on the front bench | 4:03:36 | 4:03:41 | |
has made many sensible suggestions
for how did my honourable friend | 4:03:41 | 4:03:44 | |
from Easington. I think we need to
think in terms of the pension system | 4:03:44 | 4:03:48 | |
which takes account of when you
started work. It is obviously the | 4:03:48 | 4:03:54 | |
case that a person who started work
at 15 should not have to work ten | 4:03:54 | 4:03:59 | |
years longer to get their pension,
as a person who probably has better | 4:03:59 | 4:04:05 | |
health, probably has an easier job
than a person who carried on with | 4:04:05 | 4:04:12 | |
their education into their mid-20s.
I would like to thank my honourable | 4:04:12 | 4:04:17 | |
friend for bringing this to be
forward. Was thinking about what to | 4:04:17 | 4:04:21 | |
say today that I had spoken in every
single Waspi debate since I was | 4:04:21 | 4:04:32 | |
elected. The Government is treating
them like they were dealing with a | 4:04:32 | 4:04:39 | |
dodgy comic used-car salesman. I
have to say, I thought I'd what I | 4:04:39 | 4:04:43 | |
will do, I will talk about the
injustice of the Government already | 4:04:43 | 4:04:47 | |
knows about the injustice. The
Government will say, it will trot | 4:04:47 | 4:04:52 | |
out the old arguments about people
living longer. That is no longer | 4:04:52 | 4:04:57 | |
true. Life expectancy is in decline
now. He will also stand up and talk | 4:04:57 | 4:05:05 | |
to us about... Can I just say, Madam
Deputy Speaker, whether we are | 4:05:05 | 4:05:12 | |
living to 80 or 150, that is not the
point at issue today? The point is | 4:05:12 | 4:05:19 | |
that the Waspi women were not given
proper notice. That is the issue | 4:05:19 | 4:05:22 | |
today and as what I would like the
minister to focus on. -- and that | 4:05:22 | 4:05:28 | |
was what. I would like to talk about
the hardship. The Government has | 4:05:28 | 4:05:32 | |
heard it time and again. Was also
going to talk about the cruelty of | 4:05:32 | 4:05:36 | |
moving someone proper pension age
further and further away every time | 4:05:36 | 4:05:40 | |
they approach it. The minister knows
that as well. He has heard it a | 4:05:40 | 4:05:45 | |
dozen times. I could also talk about
the caring responsibilities these | 4:05:45 | 4:05:50 | |
women have taken on. The minister
knows about that as well as | 4:05:50 | 4:05:52 | |
everybody else in this chamber. What
I will talk about briefly is the | 4:05:52 | 4:05:58 | |
social contact. People in the
chamber have talked about what this | 4:05:58 | 4:06:02 | |
will cost and whether we can afford
it. I would suggest to the minister | 4:06:02 | 4:06:06 | |
we cannot afford not to address this
matter. It goes to the heart of the | 4:06:06 | 4:06:11 | |
social contract between those who
govern, those who govern us, and | 4:06:11 | 4:06:14 | |
those who are governed by us. If
people can not have faith in the | 4:06:14 | 4:06:20 | |
contracts they have with those they
elected to represent them, where can | 4:06:20 | 4:06:25 | |
they find justice? Where can they
find support? The fact is the social | 4:06:25 | 4:06:29 | |
contract has been ripped up by this
government Crawley and callously. | 4:06:29 | 4:06:34 | |
The honourable lady from Bury St
Edmunds has talked about Waspi women | 4:06:34 | 4:06:39 | |
as though they were a burden on the
state. Nothing can be further from | 4:06:39 | 4:06:44 | |
the trees. The minister and others
from the past have spoken about | 4:06:44 | 4:06:49 | |
apprenticeships. -- the trees. There
might be some Waspi women who are | 4:06:49 | 4:06:54 | |
terribly excited about the prospect
of a £3.50 apprenticeship. I have | 4:06:54 | 4:06:58 | |
not met them. Waspi women are not
interested in whether one not to get | 4:06:58 | 4:07:06 | |
a telegram from the Queen. The fact
is that does not pay the bills will | 4:07:06 | 4:07:09 | |
put food on the table. As far as I
am aware, unless the card is edible | 4:07:09 | 4:07:16 | |
it is not much use these women have
been let down. They are living in | 4:07:16 | 4:07:22 | |
hardship through no fault of their
own. It really is time that the | 4:07:22 | 4:07:27 | |
Government recognised in contrast to
their impassive, stubborn, and I'm | 4:07:27 | 4:07:31 | |
feeling lack of response, we have
the dignity and fortitude of these | 4:07:31 | 4:07:36 | |
Waspi women and everyone who is
watching this debate can see the | 4:07:36 | 4:07:39 | |
difference between these two camps.
I would urge the minister to get a | 4:07:39 | 4:07:44 | |
grip, do the right thing, and give
these women the money they are | 4:07:44 | 4:07:48 | |
entitled to. Before I call Luke
pollard, I am sure our Right | 4:07:48 | 4:07:59 | |
Honourable members will be very
pleased to hear that the Speaker of | 4:07:59 | 4:08:02 | |
the Kosovo parliament is with us.
Welcome this evening. Thank you. I | 4:08:02 | 4:08:11 | |
would like to thank the member for
Easington, not only for calling this | 4:08:11 | 4:08:15 | |
debate that join my Facebook life
last night taking questions from | 4:08:15 | 4:08:20 | |
Waspi women in Plymouth. I would
like to declare an interest, I am a | 4:08:20 | 4:08:25 | |
son of a Waspi women and very proud
to be saved. Instead of being | 4:08:25 | 4:08:30 | |
treated with dignity, these women
are struggling to make ends meet. | 4:08:30 | 4:08:33 | |
Without enough money to spend on
food or heat their homes where they | 4:08:33 | 4:08:37 | |
have worked hard all their lives
were paid their taxes, raise | 4:08:37 | 4:08:42 | |
children got contributed to society,
cared for their loved ones and | 4:08:42 | 4:08:45 | |
believed when they are tired the
state would honour the obligations | 4:08:45 | 4:08:48 | |
set out to support them for that
this has not happened and it is a | 4:08:48 | 4:08:52 | |
disgrace. There are 78,010, and
women who deserve pension justice in | 4:08:52 | 4:08:56 | |
Devon. In Plymouth, there are 8000
Waspi women. The only Plymouth MP to | 4:08:56 | 4:09:05 | |
be here today, I speak but only for
the 5703 Waspi women but for all of | 4:09:05 | 4:09:10 | |
them put all these women deserve
justice for their pensions which | 4:09:10 | 4:09:13 | |
have been stolen by this government.
Since I became a Member of | 4:09:13 | 4:09:18 | |
Parliament, I have found the Waspi
campaigners to be decent, honourable | 4:09:18 | 4:09:22 | |
women who are passionate and
determined to get justice. To | 4:09:22 | 4:09:26 | |
Jackie, Morticia and others, I say
they are an inspiration. I would say | 4:09:26 | 4:09:31 | |
to my Oracle friend for Gower, there
are many Waspi women not here for | 4:09:31 | 4:09:36 | |
the debate. They have lost their
battles and are no longer here. They | 4:09:36 | 4:09:43 | |
have been denied pension justice.
Many of these women were not active | 4:09:43 | 4:09:49 | |
campaigners or political activists
beforehand. It is so important to | 4:09:49 | 4:09:53 | |
stress these incredible campaigners
did not choose from all wanted out | 4:09:53 | 4:09:57 | |
the life of an activist, like many
of us in this place have chosen. | 4:09:57 | 4:10:01 | |
Many of them would have enjoyed a
quiet life in their retirement with | 4:10:01 | 4:10:04 | |
a pension, embarking on the plans
many have taken years to prepare. | 4:10:04 | 4:10:08 | |
The injustice they face has been
sprang upon them and has forced them | 4:10:08 | 4:10:17 | |
to stand up and campaign on this
issue. These women of the same | 4:10:17 | 4:10:20 | |
generation that fought for equality,
fought against poverty, and now they | 4:10:20 | 4:10:22 | |
are fighting for the very justice
they return in retirement, a decent | 4:10:22 | 4:10:25 | |
pension. I have spoken to many brave
women, Waspi women, Waspi | 4:10:25 | 4:10:32 | |
campaigners, like Bernice, like
vile, like Jackie, who have wanted | 4:10:32 | 4:10:35 | |
to share their stories, so they can
be heard. -- valve. So many women | 4:10:35 | 4:10:42 | |
have hoped for dignity in retirement
are now facing poverty and | 4:10:42 | 4:10:46 | |
humiliation. It is a point that has
been raised by many people will stop | 4:10:46 | 4:10:51 | |
these Waspi are proud. They wanted
to do the right thing and thought | 4:10:51 | 4:10:56 | |
they had been doing the right thing
can only to find at the last moment | 4:10:56 | 4:11:01 | |
that them doing the right thing was
in fact not right because the | 4:11:01 | 4:11:06 | |
Government has failed to communicate
to them. They are proud women who | 4:11:06 | 4:11:09 | |
have worked hard and they deserve a
decent pension. Will my honourable | 4:11:09 | 4:11:15 | |
friend give way? I will not. I
apologise. These Waspi women have | 4:11:15 | 4:11:21 | |
been betrayed. They have been robbed
of their dignity. When they needed | 4:11:21 | 4:11:26 | |
help from the Government they were
insulted. The minister's comments, | 4:11:26 | 4:11:30 | |
and I believe him to be a good man
who has taken a lot of stick on | 4:11:30 | 4:11:33 | |
this. He is in the perfect position
to give these Waspi women hope. I | 4:11:33 | 4:11:38 | |
say that the trust about
apprenticeships, it has not built | 4:11:38 | 4:11:46 | |
trust in the Government. Let's have
a decent settlement for women. The | 4:11:46 | 4:11:52 | |
minister and the Government is on
the wrong side of history that these | 4:11:52 | 4:11:55 | |
temp Awomen are not going away for
that they will fight on. -- these | 4:11:55 | 4:12:00 | |
Waspi women. As the son of a Waspi
women, neither will I. I stand to | 4:12:00 | 4:12:08 | |
speak again on behalf of the 6500
women affected. I would like to page | 4:12:08 | 4:12:13 | |
to the campaign is up and down the
United Kingdom including my local | 4:12:13 | 4:12:18 | |
Waspi group. I compared the
different world the Tories living | 4:12:18 | 4:12:23 | |
compared to the real world and right
on cue up popped the honourable | 4:12:23 | 4:12:28 | |
member for Redditch arguing that
women aged 65 should be able to get | 4:12:28 | 4:12:33 | |
apprenticeships. It beggars belief
that they think this is a credible | 4:12:33 | 4:12:37 | |
option. Apprentices over the age of
19 are only entitled to a minimum | 4:12:37 | 4:12:43 | |
wage of £3.50 an hour. Bus passes at
an earlier age no way makes up for | 4:12:43 | 4:12:53 | |
this injustice. I would point out
that in Scotland the SNP government | 4:12:53 | 4:12:58 | |
gives a bus pass at the age of 60.
That means we are doing nothing for | 4:12:58 | 4:13:02 | |
the women in Scotland. Whilst
thinking about these things | 4:13:02 | 4:13:05 | |
yesterday, I got an e-mail from my
honourable member for looking to | 4:13:05 | 4:13:09 | |
raise funds to bring back the Royal
yacht Britannia for that you cannot | 4:13:09 | 4:13:14 | |
raise that that is never make that
up that that is considered to be an | 4:13:14 | 4:13:19 | |
actual campaign while all these
injustices are going on. -- you | 4:13:19 | 4:13:27 | |
cannot make that up. In the real
world we have the British medical | 4:13:27 | 4:13:32 | |
Journal reporting which estimates
120,000 deaths are triggered a ball | 4:13:32 | 4:13:36 | |
to Tory austerities measures. Also,
in this free world, there are Waspi | 4:13:36 | 4:13:43 | |
women suffering from cancer who will
lose their houses and husbands are | 4:13:43 | 4:13:47 | |
stressed at having to work longer to
try to keep the house of going. | 4:13:47 | 4:13:52 | |
Meanwhile, her MP, the honourable
member has confirmed to another | 4:13:52 | 4:14:01 | |
Waspi woman, in government difficult
decisions have to be made. Nobody in | 4:14:01 | 4:14:06 | |
here is promising that. We want
justice for these women. They should | 4:14:06 | 4:14:12 | |
get the money they are untitled two.
It is also said that successive | 4:14:12 | 4:14:19 | |
governments have taken adequate
steps. That is effectively saying it | 4:14:19 | 4:14:25 | |
is these women's fault they did not
know about it. No one can credibly | 4:14:25 | 4:14:30 | |
say that successive governments have
not informed the women properly. The | 4:14:30 | 4:14:34 | |
Tory government mitigated on the
pensions act. That is like saying | 4:14:34 | 4:14:40 | |
the school bully demanded £3 of view
and only took £2 and therefore there | 4:14:40 | 4:14:45 | |
is a £1 mitigation measure. That is
not medication at all. In the wider | 4:14:45 | 4:14:51 | |
world, the Scottish Tories argue
about a technicality and the | 4:14:51 | 4:14:54 | |
Scottish cup and have the powers to
do something about it. The Scottish | 4:14:54 | 4:14:58 | |
Government does not have a problem
to deal with pensions. At the same | 4:14:58 | 4:15:03 | |
time, the budget has been cut
between £2.5 billion and is also | 4:15:03 | 4:15:07 | |
having to mitigate other cuts like
the bedroom tax and the council tax. | 4:15:07 | 4:15:14 | |
It is this minister that refused to
devolve pensions and vote autonomy | 4:15:14 | 4:15:17 | |
in Scotland. | 4:15:17 | 4:15:22 | |
There has been arguments how much
mitigation measures may cost and in | 4:15:22 | 4:15:28 | |
the last debate, the Government
managed £370 billion for good | 4:15:28 | 4:15:33 | |
measure in terms of the reversal of
the 1995 pensions act although we | 4:15:33 | 4:15:39 | |
did not call for that. I have
updated figures from the House of | 4:15:39 | 4:15:45 | |
Commons library about corporation
tax, inheritance tax, savings | 4:15:45 | 4:15:49 | |
concession and higher tax threshold
and for the year 2025, this will | 4:15:49 | 4:15:55 | |
cost £63 billion, corporation tax
will cost £50 billion. The solution | 4:15:55 | 4:16:03 | |
is staring you in the face, that is
the choices that people have to | 4:16:03 | 4:16:06 | |
make. Thank you, the honourable
member for Easington for securing | 4:16:06 | 4:16:13 | |
this debate. To put on record being
part of a generation, my mother is a | 4:16:13 | 4:16:19 | |
WASPI was B, the daughter of a WASPI
woman, what is worse than the | 4:16:19 | 4:16:22 | |
so-called burden on my generation or
younger generations is seeing your | 4:16:22 | 4:16:29 | |
mother not getting what she deserves
and the consequences of that. So I | 4:16:29 | 4:16:33 | |
definitely do not see that as a
burden. There is an overwhelming | 4:16:33 | 4:16:36 | |
case to reach a compensatory
arrangement for women who through no | 4:16:36 | 4:16:42 | |
fault of their own have been robbed
of a decent retirement. Despite this | 4:16:42 | 4:16:47 | |
long debate, I am sure those women
do not feel as though their voices | 4:16:47 | 4:16:50 | |
will be heard by this Government,
but we will see when the Minister | 4:16:50 | 4:16:54 | |
rises. If the hardship was really
hurt, the Government would take | 4:16:54 | 4:16:58 | |
action. When I asked women to share
their experiences, they were stopped | 4:16:58 | 4:17:03 | |
and heartbreaking. And contrary to
the individualised nature of the | 4:17:03 | 4:17:08 | |
comments opposite, there were
patterns, it was a collective | 4:17:08 | 4:17:12 | |
experience. And some of those are
these. They have been left without | 4:17:12 | 4:17:18 | |
information by the DWP, that is
clear and undisputed. The word they | 4:17:18 | 4:17:23 | |
used repeatedly was cheated, in
relation to how they felt. The lack | 4:17:23 | 4:17:28 | |
of notification has consequences,
that is clear and call up the | 4:17:28 | 4:17:30 | |
disputed. Those women often started
work at 15 and suddenly have to rip | 4:17:30 | 4:17:36 | |
up their retirement plans and
scratch around to make a living. | 4:17:36 | 4:17:39 | |
Because of new and sudden realities
they have been forced into often | 4:17:39 | 4:17:48 | |
backbreaking zero hours work without
job satisfaction just to make it | 4:17:48 | 4:17:51 | |
through their retirement age.
Dullness has made them desperate and | 4:17:51 | 4:17:55 | |
trapped and searching for ways to
make ends meet which is frightening | 4:17:55 | 4:17:59 | |
in this new financial environment.
Financial insecurity and poverty | 4:17:59 | 4:18:04 | |
have led to many experiencing acute
mental health problems. Caring | 4:18:04 | 4:18:09 | |
responsibilities have left them
exhausted and with gaps in their | 4:18:09 | 4:18:12 | |
pension through no fault of their
own. These women who have worked all | 4:18:12 | 4:18:16 | |
of their lives and have not had the
advantages of many in this place and | 4:18:16 | 4:18:22 | |
for many for whom life has been a
struggle have got utterly let down | 4:18:22 | 4:18:27 | |
by the DWP and their representatives
in this House and government. What | 4:18:27 | 4:18:31 | |
happens in this place has massive
consequences. Listen to this | 4:18:31 | 4:18:35 | |
one-woman's reality, she is living
from hand to mouth, it is whether | 4:18:35 | 4:18:38 | |
she can heat or eat. She is not in
the best of health and cannot go to | 4:18:38 | 4:18:42 | |
work if sick and does not get paid,
she should not be in this position, | 4:18:42 | 4:18:47 | |
she says, she says, she should have
been informed years ago of the | 4:18:47 | 4:18:50 | |
massive increase to her state
pension. Additional six years to | 4:18:50 | 4:18:53 | |
work is on there. The best part of a
decade and that means a lot in your | 4:18:53 | 4:18:58 | |
60s. She feels hopeless amber
straight. She says, what will my | 4:18:58 | 4:19:02 | |
help elect inability that in another
four years, will I ever get to enjoy | 4:19:02 | 4:19:08 | |
my route retirement? Truly
heartbreaking. There are thousands | 4:19:08 | 4:19:10 | |
of these women in my constituency of
North West Durham who want to know | 4:19:10 | 4:19:15 | |
where their money is. They want to
know how this contractual | 4:19:15 | 4:19:19 | |
relationship with the state can be
ripped up. How there are no | 4:19:19 | 4:19:25 | |
consequences to the administrative
inadequacies of the state. They know | 4:19:25 | 4:19:28 | |
that where there is a will, there is
a way. Please give these women the | 4:19:28 | 4:19:33 | |
future that is rightfully theirs.
And when they do win, they will not | 4:19:33 | 4:19:37 | |
be grateful, but they will be glad
they did not give up. | 4:19:37 | 4:19:45 | |
I also woke up this morning and also
taught, what am I going to say? | 4:19:45 | 4:19:51 | |
Because I have said everything
multiple times and there is only so | 4:19:51 | 4:19:54 | |
many different ways you can state
the same facts. I got an e-mail from | 4:19:54 | 4:19:58 | |
a lady called Hazel. She said out of
curiosity that she wanted to go | 4:19:58 | 4:20:04 | |
looking for these old TV adverts of
this multi-million pound campaign | 4:20:04 | 4:20:08 | |
that apparently happened from the
Government. Since we have focused so | 4:20:08 | 4:20:13 | |
much on communication today, this is
a very valid point. She showed me | 4:20:13 | 4:20:17 | |
these videos, these different
adverts. There were three we could | 4:20:17 | 4:20:20 | |
find. In the archives. The first
version is presumably for women. It | 4:20:20 | 4:20:28 | |
is very patronising, as is the one
aimed at guys. And it is two dogs | 4:20:28 | 4:20:32 | |
talking to each other through a
field and one says how it is so | 4:20:32 | 4:20:38 | |
confused by pensions because there
is that many different types. The | 4:20:38 | 4:20:42 | |
other dog says, well, the government
has this great new handy book that | 4:20:42 | 4:20:45 | |
you can request to be sent and the
punch line is, is that you are a | 4:20:45 | 4:20:50 | |
Guide Dog now? The banter is very
good! That is not an adequate advert | 4:20:50 | 4:20:56 | |
in the slightest to get across these
grave changes that happened. But my | 4:20:56 | 4:21:02 | |
favourite one was the third advert,
just ten seconds and half of the | 4:21:02 | 4:21:07 | |
video is a dog chasing its tail with
no dialogue whatsoever. And it sums | 4:21:07 | 4:21:12 | |
up the Government's reactions to
this entire saga. They are the | 4:21:12 | 4:21:17 | |
spinning in one circle, refusing to
acknowledge the fact is people are | 4:21:17 | 4:21:21 | |
pointing out. I raise this for two
reasons. One is because it is the | 4:21:21 | 4:21:28 | |
only new thing I have got to add.
Two, because the onus is still on | 4:21:28 | 4:21:33 | |
the women to request information.
The onus is still on them to find | 4:21:33 | 4:21:36 | |
out what the Government might or
might not be up to with their | 4:21:36 | 4:21:39 | |
pensions. It is incredible that we
are still having to have this debate | 4:21:39 | 4:21:45 | |
because as far as I am aware, this
is my 13th debate since I was | 4:21:45 | 4:21:49 | |
elected and I know there were
debates before this. The key point | 4:21:49 | 4:21:53 | |
coming through is at no point are
these changes explicitly mentioned | 4:21:53 | 4:21:57 | |
and at no point have these been
communicated to the women affected. | 4:21:57 | 4:22:01 | |
I like to think everyone until my
honourable member's speech, I | 4:22:01 | 4:22:06 | |
thought everybody in here was an
agreement that there was pure | 4:22:06 | 4:22:09 | |
communication for many years. I
think that still stands. It is a | 4:22:09 | 4:22:18 | |
case it was both Labour and
Conservative government that ignored | 4:22:18 | 4:22:21 | |
this problem and there still is a
huge communication problem we have | 4:22:21 | 4:22:24 | |
to look at. But from that fact and
admission that there is a | 4:22:24 | 4:22:29 | |
communication problem, we can safely
draw two conclusions. First is the | 4:22:29 | 4:22:34 | |
most important, which that these
women are utterly blameless in this | 4:22:34 | 4:22:38 | |
entire thing. Second, it is an
admission of guilt on the part of | 4:22:38 | 4:22:44 | |
the Government. It is a recognition
that the institution of government | 4:22:44 | 4:22:50 | |
has failed these same women again
and again and again. The member for | 4:22:50 | 4:22:57 | |
North Cornwall earlier said the 2011
act was rushed, I agree with that, | 4:22:57 | 4:23:01 | |
it was shoved in at the last minute
and all of a sudden, we said, wait a | 4:23:01 | 4:23:06 | |
second, there is a 1995 act, this
has kicked off! Instead of doing the | 4:23:06 | 4:23:10 | |
sensible thing and going, let's step
back and see what we can do to solve | 4:23:10 | 4:23:16 | |
this, the government has decided to
run ahead with it anyway. So can we | 4:23:16 | 4:23:19 | |
do with the fact that the job of
President governments is to fix the | 4:23:19 | 4:23:24 | |
mistakes of previous governments? --
current governments. That is | 4:23:24 | 4:23:28 | |
literally why we're here, the move
society forward and it is not going | 4:23:28 | 4:23:32 | |
to get anywhere the response is
always, yes, it was rubbish, but | 4:23:32 | 4:23:36 | |
let's move on. That is all we are
getting from the government. We can | 4:23:36 | 4:23:41 | |
shout about whose fault it is until
we are a Tory shade of blue in the | 4:23:41 | 4:23:45 | |
face, it will not fix. I recognise
this Government has made slight | 4:23:45 | 4:23:51 | |
compressions to the 2011 act and
gave some women extra months, but it | 4:23:51 | 4:23:56 | |
was an inadequate response because
it neglected the chaos started back | 4:23:56 | 4:24:02 | |
in 1995 -- it was not an adequate
response. So can we focus more on | 4:24:02 | 4:24:06 | |
how we fix it now rather than
getting drawn into this blame game | 4:24:06 | 4:24:09 | |
of whose fault it is all is not? The
SNP produced a report, doing the | 4:24:09 | 4:24:19 | |
Government's job for it, saying the
£8 billion spent across five years | 4:24:19 | 4:24:24 | |
could effectively revert back to the
original timetable of the 1995 act, | 4:24:24 | 4:24:28 | |
allowing for it lot of breathing
space for a lot of women, especially | 4:24:28 | 4:24:32 | |
those worst affected. The National
Insurance fund is £23 billion. | 4:24:32 | 4:24:38 | |
People can disagree with that all
they want and I am happy to talk | 4:24:38 | 4:24:42 | |
after and I will come to the
honourable gentleman specifically | 4:24:42 | 4:24:44 | |
from South Suffolk. He mentioned
about the problems the pension | 4:24:44 | 4:24:52 | |
system faces. I have to say, the
spirit of his speech I completely | 4:24:52 | 4:24:56 | |
agreed with. I understand when
Gordon Brown was mentioned, it was | 4:24:56 | 4:25:01 | |
because he had a field day with the
pensions pot and made things a lot | 4:25:01 | 4:25:05 | |
more complicated for everybody. I
accept that as a reality and it is | 4:25:05 | 4:25:09 | |
an historical fact. It is because I
agree with the honourable member | 4:25:09 | 4:25:14 | |
about these grave concerns, it is
why we need to fix this problem. | 4:25:14 | 4:25:17 | |
Because we always say this ultimate
of it is on there to put onto the | 4:25:17 | 4:25:22 | |
younger generations because they
will be footing the bill at this | 4:25:22 | 4:25:26 | |
pay-as-you-go system as you referred
to. Well, I am from that generation | 4:25:26 | 4:25:30 | |
and I look at this problem and I
say, these women have done nothing | 4:25:30 | 4:25:33 | |
wrong. The Government is still able
to afford all these things that I | 4:25:33 | 4:25:39 | |
don't think that important. They are
really saying they will not act | 4:25:39 | 4:25:44 | |
because the me? Wait, why should I
pay National Insurance if at the | 4:25:44 | 4:25:49 | |
last hurdle, the government could
just change the rules and move the | 4:25:49 | 4:25:52 | |
goalposts? Why is my generation
going to take anything the | 4:25:52 | 4:25:56 | |
government says seriously? That is
why we have to be grown-up about | 4:25:56 | 4:25:59 | |
this. I cannot believe I have to say
that in here, this is a problem that | 4:25:59 | 4:26:04 | |
we need to fix and address, it is
above the party politics. So let's | 4:26:04 | 4:26:09 | |
be practical. And this is where I
recognise that me and the honourable | 4:26:09 | 4:26:14 | |
gentleman will disagree, I say that
this comes down to top political | 4:26:14 | 4:26:17 | |
choices. We have a deal with the DUP
to maintain power, we have got | 4:26:17 | 4:26:22 | |
billions of pounds being spent on
Trident, refurbishment for this | 4:26:22 | 4:26:26 | |
place, we have heard the ridiculous
campaigns of Royal yachts and | 4:26:26 | 4:26:30 | |
things. I am sorry, that is just not
a priority right now. This was a | 4:26:30 | 4:26:36 | |
contract that these women entered,
National Insurance is a contract, it | 4:26:36 | 4:26:38 | |
is a basic fundamental of our state
is it functions, of our welfare | 4:26:38 | 4:26:44 | |
state. And we cannot undermine that,
and that is all this Government is | 4:26:44 | 4:26:48 | |
doing. If this was a private company
they would rightly be getting | 4:26:48 | 4:26:51 | |
dragged through the courts right
now. I really think the Government | 4:26:51 | 4:26:54 | |
should reflect. On my last point.
The honourable member for Bury St | 4:26:54 | 4:27:03 | |
Edmunds, I don't know if I said that
right! She said section 28 of the | 4:27:03 | 4:27:06 | |
Scotland Act 2016 gives the Scottish
Parliament the power to mitigate | 4:27:06 | 4:27:12 | |
these changes. I have got a real
problem with this. Section 28 of the | 4:27:12 | 4:27:19 | |
Scotland Act 2016 states, we cannot
give pensioner systems or assistance | 4:27:19 | 4:27:24 | |
by reason of old age. We are not
allowed to do it. Pensions are | 4:27:24 | 4:27:30 | |
completely reserved. When we
campaigned to get pensions devolved, | 4:27:30 | 4:27:35 | |
we were told, no. Like I said in my
last speech, sorry? I am grateful | 4:27:35 | 4:27:42 | |
for giving way. Would she also agree
that her SNP government Minister did | 4:27:42 | 4:27:46 | |
say in a letter to the UK Government
I accept that old age is not defined | 4:27:46 | 4:27:52 | |
in the legislation and that most
people would not regard this age | 4:27:52 | 4:27:56 | |
group, WASPI women, as old? And when
she speaks about pensions, which she | 4:27:56 | 4:28:00 | |
also agree that these women are not
pensioners because they have not | 4:28:00 | 4:28:04 | |
received their state pension and so
there may be an opportunity to use | 4:28:04 | 4:28:08 | |
that? An opportunity, that is all I
ask. I appreciate that, but the | 4:28:08 | 4:28:11 | |
reason these WASPI women are not
receiving their pension is because | 4:28:11 | 4:28:17 | |
this UK Government will not give it
to them! That is a ridiculous | 4:28:17 | 4:28:21 | |
motion. I want to commend the
honourable member because he did | 4:28:21 | 4:28:24 | |
supporters on the opposition and
that is a commendable and brave | 4:28:24 | 4:28:27 | |
think to do so fair play to the guy.
This is just a totally British Chris | 4:28:27 | 4:28:32 | |
point of view. I'm going to explain
exactly why. I am coming to my | 4:28:32 | 4:28:40 | |
concluding remarks, I disagree with
Labour on constitutional basis. That | 4:28:40 | 4:28:44 | |
is because I want to cut out the
middleman, this is the perfect | 4:28:44 | 4:28:47 | |
example of why I supported
independence, we paying taxes to | 4:28:47 | 4:28:52 | |
come to London to be told by a
Conservative government what we can | 4:28:52 | 4:28:54 | |
spend the money on and the irony is
when these policies start to take | 4:28:54 | 4:29:00 | |
effect, the Government turned round
and goes, we want the Scottish | 4:29:00 | 4:29:03 | |
Government to fix it! I don't think
so, if you want to devolve pensions, | 4:29:03 | 4:29:07 | |
great, until then, this is a UK
problem, a conserved the problem, | 4:29:07 | 4:29:11 | |
and it is not going away and it has
to be fixed and it hacks to be fixed | 4:29:11 | 4:29:15 | |
soon, do the right thing! -- it has
to be fixed. I would like to | 4:29:15 | 4:29:22 | |
congratulate my honourable friend
the member for Easington on securing | 4:29:22 | 4:29:26 | |
this important debate and I am
absolutely delighted to be able to | 4:29:26 | 4:29:29 | |
speak in support of his motion. | 4:29:29 | 4:29:37 | |
Some fantastic contributions and I
would like to thank each and every | 4:29:37 | 4:29:39 | |
one of you. I think on the whole it
has been a cross party wreck rising | 4:29:39 | 4:29:46 | |
that the real injustice that women
born in the ranking 50s have been | 4:29:46 | 4:29:49 | |
dealt. -- 1950s. There can be no
doubt that women have borne the | 4:29:49 | 4:29:57 | |
brunt of this governments cuts over
the years. Particularly women born | 4:29:57 | 4:30:01 | |
in the 1950s have been dealt a real
injustice in regards to the | 4:30:01 | 4:30:07 | |
accelerated increase in women's
pension age. Very briefly. Does she | 4:30:07 | 4:30:14 | |
agree with me that it is no surprise
that 1950s women like my | 4:30:14 | 4:30:19 | |
constituents feel robbed because
they work hard for 45 years, they | 4:30:19 | 4:30:24 | |
save their bodies are giving up and
they can't get the pensions that | 4:30:24 | 4:30:27 | |
they paid for? There are so many
different cases and I will touch on | 4:30:27 | 4:30:33 | |
a couple if I may in relation to
that. These women have had their | 4:30:33 | 4:30:39 | |
state pension age quietly pushed
back for many without any notice. | 4:30:39 | 4:30:44 | |
Expecting to retire at 60 only to
find that they have three or more | 4:30:44 | 4:30:47 | |
years to wait. Madam Deputy Speaker
and despite these appalling stories | 4:30:47 | 4:30:54 | |
of the dire circumstances these
women are facing the Government has | 4:30:54 | 4:30:57 | |
still refused to provide a
transitional support. During our | 4:30:57 | 4:31:01 | |
national pension store which my
honourable friend started the | 4:31:01 | 4:31:06 | |
summer, we heard from many women who
are not just struggling near facing | 4:31:06 | 4:31:09 | |
destitution. A couple of cases I
will mention free briefly. All | 4:31:09 | 4:31:14 | |
anonymous. I have been paying
international insurance for 43 years | 4:31:14 | 4:31:19 | |
but have no private pension or
anything else for that matter. I | 4:31:19 | 4:31:22 | |
have supported to children on my own
salary as a divorced single parent. | 4:31:22 | 4:31:26 | |
I had notification in the 1995 that
but if you break 20, I was told my | 4:31:26 | 4:31:34 | |
retirement date was made to 2019. I
will be so defied in four months. I | 4:31:34 | 4:31:38 | |
have worked, have extra convocations
and had good jobs. At 603I am | 4:31:38 | 4:31:45 | |
unemployed. I have little savings.
I've applied for over 40 jobs since | 4:31:45 | 4:31:49 | |
September I am at my wits end. The
second one if I can briefly | 4:31:49 | 4:31:56 | |
mentioned this I don't remember I
ever got a letter saying my pension | 4:31:56 | 4:31:59 | |
may just change. I'm disabled and it
had a lot of stress of things going | 4:31:59 | 4:32:04 | |
on in the past two years. Worrying
about... The news that the DLA is | 4:32:04 | 4:32:11 | |
changing. The changes state pension
age just sort of crept in there and | 4:32:11 | 4:32:15 | |
keep to my attention when WASPI
had... I heard that not only would I | 4:32:15 | 4:32:23 | |
get my state pension when I was 16
but I would... I'm tired of not | 4:32:23 | 4:32:28 | |
mattering. Madam Deputy Speaker
these women deserve more than this. | 4:32:28 | 4:32:34 | |
As he afforded many have had to rely
on the wider Social Security system | 4:32:34 | 4:32:39 | |
beyond the state pension to survive.
This means if they are claiming | 4:32:39 | 4:32:44 | |
jobseeker's allowance or Universal
Credit they are expected to | 4:32:44 | 4:32:47 | |
undertake 35 hours a week of job
search activity or to be sanctioned. | 4:32:47 | 4:32:52 | |
I would be great for the Minister
would comment on the recommendation | 4:32:52 | 4:32:55 | |
in the final report into the state
pension age would suggest that older | 4:32:55 | 4:33:01 | |
job-seekers should only be required
to find part-time work. Does the | 4:33:01 | 4:33:06 | |
Government support district second
Asian? Madam Deputy Speaker won the | 4:33:06 | 4:33:11 | |
plight of women born in the 1950s
was first raised toward tension by | 4:33:11 | 4:33:17 | |
WASPI. They said 8 million women
were affected either changes. -- 8 | 4:33:17 | 4:33:25 | |
million women were affected by
changes. Only hundred 50,000 have | 4:33:25 | 4:33:33 | |
reached their revise estate pension
age to date. By 2026 they will all | 4:33:33 | 4:33:41 | |
retire. There is palpable and
justifiable anger from these women. | 4:33:41 | 4:33:45 | |
As they have said they have done the
right thing, worked all their lives | 4:33:45 | 4:33:49 | |
and paid into the system for
decades, cared for their children, | 4:33:49 | 4:33:52 | |
care for their parents only for the
goalposts to be moved. Many are | 4:33:52 | 4:33:57 | |
seeking these overdressed against
the Government. They need action now | 4:33:57 | 4:34:00 | |
about ten or 20 years' time. Labour
has presented two options that the | 4:34:00 | 4:34:06 | |
Government could take forward now.
The first, which was included in our | 4:34:06 | 4:34:10 | |
manifesto, is the extension of
pension credit to those most badly | 4:34:10 | 4:34:13 | |
affected by the increase of the age.
Enabling them to get additional | 4:34:13 | 4:34:18 | |
support based on the 19 95
timetable. This will provide problem | 4:34:18 | 4:34:24 | |
-- approximate half a million women
on the lowest incomes up to £159 a | 4:34:24 | 4:34:28 | |
week. We have repeatedly called on
the Government to take these | 4:34:28 | 4:34:32 | |
measures. Sadly they have refused to
act. Our manifesto commitments that | 4:34:32 | 4:34:40 | |
we would look at other options as
well. And as such at conference I | 4:34:40 | 4:34:44 | |
set out an additional option which
would give the women the opportunity | 4:34:44 | 4:34:48 | |
to retire up to two years earlier,
64 rather than is expected in the | 4:34:48 | 4:34:53 | |
governments plans. Given that the
Government has so far refused to set | 4:34:53 | 4:34:57 | |
aside any additional expenditure we
thought it wasn't paired of 2% for | 4:34:57 | 4:35:03 | |
bozos that were cost neutral. So
there was no excuse to rule this | 4:35:03 | 4:35:06 | |
option out. Under this option women
born in the 1950s with see a small | 4:35:06 | 4:35:12 | |
reduction of 6% in their weekly
state pension entitlement for each | 4:35:12 | 4:35:15 | |
year that they retired early. So
based on a state pension today, a | 4:35:15 | 4:35:20 | |
woman retiring a year early but
received £49 a week -- 100 £49 a | 4:35:20 | 4:35:32 | |
week so hundred 55. However as I
said then and I want to reiterate | 4:35:32 | 4:35:38 | |
now it is a starter. It is to
complement additional action all -- | 4:35:38 | 4:35:46 | |
actual positional protection. These
women need action now. These are two | 4:35:46 | 4:35:49 | |
options this government could
introduce now. We want to continue | 4:35:49 | 4:35:52 | |
working with the women to look at
and certainly not to preclude any | 4:35:52 | 4:35:59 | |
compensation that they should be
given. We want to make sure we write | 4:35:59 | 4:36:05 | |
the wrong that they have been dealt.
This option was developed after | 4:36:05 | 4:36:10 | |
listening to women and men as part
of the national state pension into | 4:36:10 | 4:36:13 | |
discussing the future of our state
engine system. We also met with the | 4:36:13 | 4:36:17 | |
various 1950s were made lovely
groups at the Minister so profoundly | 4:36:17 | 4:36:22 | |
was the urgency for many women. They
need something now and can't wait | 4:36:22 | 4:36:26 | |
six months let alone three, four or
five years. As a all-knowing the | 4:36:26 | 4:36:32 | |
next few years most women will have
retired by then. I reiterate | 4:36:32 | 4:36:36 | |
something needs to happen now. But
Madam Deputy Speaker of this | 4:36:36 | 4:36:41 | |
government has ignored their pleas
for help. He had ignored the | 4:36:41 | 4:36:45 | |
tangible measures that they could
take. There approaches not only | 4:36:45 | 4:36:48 | |
morally bankrupt but it shows that
government has no commitment to | 4:36:48 | 4:36:51 | |
tackling burning injustices and
given the prospect of a lengthy and | 4:36:51 | 4:36:57 | |
costly court battle as women seek
compensation for the years they have | 4:36:57 | 4:37:00 | |
lost, is extremely foolhardy. Last
week my honourable friend challenge | 4:37:00 | 4:37:06 | |
the Government about a could choose
-- contingency plan. The Minister | 4:37:06 | 4:37:13 | |
said that the Government believed
that they were on firm ground but | 4:37:13 | 4:37:16 | |
history is littered with court and
other decisions when in justice has | 4:37:16 | 4:37:20 | |
been proved and governments have had
to pay up. It is clear that this | 4:37:20 | 4:37:25 | |
government has even less support for
its position regarding 1950s women | 4:37:25 | 4:37:28 | |
in the House than it does for a
meaningful vote on the negotiated | 4:37:28 | 4:37:32 | |
settlement with the EU. So to say --
I say to the Minister work with us, | 4:37:32 | 4:37:38 | |
work with these women, auto
comprehensive set of bridging | 4:37:38 | 4:37:41 | |
arrangements now. Thank you Madam
Deputy Speaker. I would like to | 4:37:41 | 4:37:49 | |
actually my good friend the
honourable member for securing... | 4:37:49 | 4:37:58 | |
The decisions of Debbie Speaker,
concerning the rise of state pension | 4:37:58 | 4:38:02 | |
age by successive governments were
reached by equality legislation, | 4:38:02 | 4:38:09 | |
increased life expectancy and
sustainability of the state tension. | 4:38:09 | 4:38:13 | |
Since World War II, we have seen
huge changes in life expectancy. | 4:38:13 | 4:38:17 | |
Thanks to a better national health
service, changes in the job -- job | 4:38:17 | 4:38:23 | |
market and improvements in medicine
postop improvements for men and | 4:38:23 | 4:38:26 | |
women such that they are living
longer, staying healthier for longer | 4:38:26 | 4:38:28 | |
and leading far more act of
lifestyles regardless of our age. | 4:38:28 | 4:38:33 | |
People living and staying healthier
for longer is to be welcomed. But we | 4:38:33 | 4:38:37 | |
mustn't as a government ignored that
also brings in them is precious both | 4:38:37 | 4:38:42 | |
financially and demographically. The
key choice, Madam Debbie Speaker | 4:38:42 | 4:38:46 | |
commented that the Government faces
with seeking to control is whether | 4:38:46 | 4:38:50 | |
to eat increased state pension age
or pay lower pensions. The only | 4:38:50 | 4:38:56 | |
alternative is to ask the working
generation to pay an ever larger | 4:38:56 | 4:39:00 | |
share of their income to support
pensioners. In July of this year the | 4:39:00 | 4:39:07 | |
Government publishes the first
review of the state pension age | 4:39:07 | 4:39:11 | |
sitting on a coherent strategy for
sustaining... In a moment. The UK | 4:39:11 | 4:39:19 | |
system for many decades to come. As
suggested that -- it takes the | 4:39:19 | 4:39:27 | |
recommendation to increase the state
pension age and the review is clear | 4:39:27 | 4:39:33 | |
about increasing life expectancy and
the challenges that it poses. People | 4:39:33 | 4:39:37 | |
are living longer. In 2015 on people
turned, looked away a second, as | 4:39:37 | 4:39:44 | |
compared to 3000 people are reached
100 years and 2002. In 2035 there | 4:39:44 | 4:39:49 | |
were more than twice as many people
did to the honourable Judge. I | 4:39:49 | 4:39:55 | |
appreciate the Mr giving away. One I
ask of the Government give us a | 4:39:55 | 4:40:02 | |
meaningful vote to this because I
know there is a lot of support on | 4:40:02 | 4:40:05 | |
the opposition and just behind the
Minister and secondly one year | 4:40:05 | 4:40:12 | |
corporation tax rather than take
that back to business I think | 4:40:12 | 4:40:15 | |
business be happy to give that to
WASPI women. The honourable | 4:40:15 | 4:40:22 | |
gentleman and I were both in the
House of Commons in 2011 when he was | 4:40:22 | 4:40:25 | |
five foot for the 2011 Mac to
increase the state pension -- to | 4:40:25 | 4:40:31 | |
increase the state pension. He and I
and the SMP and the Government would | 4:40:31 | 4:40:42 | |
have if her nephews on taxation
whether for example their support | 4:40:42 | 4:40:47 | |
for tried and not support for
Trident but with respect of the | 4:40:47 | 4:40:50 | |
reduction in tax that you are poses
that will be a reduction on the job | 4:40:50 | 4:40:54 | |
grading powers on the businesses
that we rely upon for the jobs and | 4:40:54 | 4:40:57 | |
the Outlook services that we also
wish to support I give way to the | 4:40:57 | 4:41:02 | |
honourable lady. I'm grateful to the
Minister. Will the Minister | 4:41:02 | 4:41:06 | |
acknowledged that two days before
the report was released the data | 4:41:06 | 4:41:12 | |
showed that actually life expectancy
at 60 is actually going down and | 4:41:12 | 4:41:17 | |
that life except in the ad earth is
flat miming. The only developing | 4:41:17 | 4:41:21 | |
country where this happen. --
developed country. I'm grateful she | 4:41:21 | 4:41:28 | |
has raised that specific one. I
believe she is scaremongering. On | 4:41:28 | 4:41:38 | |
the issue of life expectancy, on the
issue of life expectancy Madam | 4:41:38 | 4:41:41 | |
Deputy Speaker there are two
fundamental sources. The first is | 4:41:41 | 4:41:47 | |
the OMS will have repeatedly made
clear that the life expectancy is | 4:41:47 | 4:41:50 | |
rising across the board and the
situation is that we must not get | 4:41:50 | 4:41:57 | |
away from the fact that the alloy
Nasa recently reported only this | 4:41:57 | 4:42:01 | |
month that life expectancy continues
to rise and the Labour Party | 4:42:01 | 4:42:07 | |
manifesto seeks to have an
independent review of state and all | 4:42:07 | 4:42:12 | |
aspects of that, while the
Government did that, it was the | 4:42:12 | 4:42:15 | |
report and the report makes it clear
that life expectancy has increased | 4:42:15 | 4:42:20 | |
and not there is absolutely no
question that life expectancy at or | 4:42:20 | 4:42:28 | |
for example in 2016 was 91 years for
females and I89 years for males and | 4:42:28 | 4:42:34 | |
in 50 years' time by 2066 by legacy
of birth the predicted to rise to 98 | 4:42:34 | 4:42:40 | |
years. As for healthy life except to
say this is also been increasing | 4:42:40 | 4:42:45 | |
over recent decades. Healthy life
except in CA 65, as a proportion of | 4:42:45 | 4:42:51 | |
life except in C, has been
relatively stable since the year | 4:42:51 | 4:42:55 | |
2000. And in relation to Scotland,
how the life expectancy at 65 | 4:42:55 | 4:43:00 | |
according to the latest that this
cake has been increasing in Scotland | 4:43:00 | 4:43:03 | |
in recent years as his ability free
life expectancy. And I was latest | 4:43:03 | 4:43:09 | |
point, in relation to specific areas
of Scotland, the long of it as I do | 4:43:09 | 4:43:20 | |
not have specific constituency life
expectancy as if they've ask for in | 4:43:20 | 4:43:22 | |
the past and and has been raised.
For example in the Glasgow city area | 4:43:22 | 4:43:27 | |
life expectancy at birth in December
of 2017 has increased by over four | 4:43:27 | 4:43:35 | |
years for man and life expectancy at
65 in Glasgow city is 15 years for | 4:43:35 | 4:43:40 | |
men and 18 years for women. This has
been increased since 2001. This | 4:43:40 | 4:43:48 | |
session is made that I am using the
raw data. The data I'm using is the | 4:43:48 | 4:43:55 | |
Office of National Statistics and
the report. I'm conscious of your | 4:43:55 | 4:44:00 | |
restrictions on the amount of time
that I can take. I will come back to | 4:44:00 | 4:44:04 | |
the honourable lady in a second if
she allows me to go on. The state | 4:44:04 | 4:44:08 | |
tension was initially addressed in
1995 when it was legislated in the | 4:44:08 | 4:44:17 | |
1995 act this rose out of life
expectancy changes and increase in | 4:44:17 | 4:44:21 | |
the number of pensioners in the
years to come. The Labour government | 4:44:21 | 4:44:25 | |
as I have indicated earlier
introduced the 2007 pensions act was | 4:44:25 | 4:44:29 | |
again increased state pension age. I
should point of the Labour Party has | 4:44:29 | 4:44:35 | |
now seek to argue that the Blair and
Brown reforms are wrong. The | 4:44:35 | 4:44:38 | |
Government listen to concerns voiced
in the passage of the 2011 Mac is | 4:44:38 | 4:44:45 | |
indicated down her budget and the
proposed two-year acceleration was | 4:44:45 | 4:44:48 | |
reduced to 18 months benefiting over
a quarter of a million women in the | 4:44:48 | 4:44:53 | |
process | 4:44:53 | 4:44:59 | |
Going as far as some campaigners
have argued, indeed the gentleman | 4:44:59 | 4:45:13 | |
described as full compensation, wood
) -- represent a cost of over £70 | 4:45:13 | 4:45:16 | |
million to the public purse. The
requirements those changes would | 4:45:16 | 4:45:18 | |
make taken into account the
difference between men and women, | 4:45:18 | 4:45:20 | |
would require new legislation
meaning there would have to be | 4:45:20 | 4:45:24 | |
inequality potentially being created
between men and women. Perhaps he | 4:45:24 | 4:45:32 | |
could offer some assistance, he
talks about life expectancy | 4:45:32 | 4:45:35 | |
increasing. I don't want to argue
the toss, what I'm curious about is | 4:45:35 | 4:45:41 | |
just because people are living
longer, I don't understand why this | 4:45:41 | 4:45:46 | |
particular generation of women
should pay the price when they are | 4:45:46 | 4:45:50 | |
expected to receive their pensions
at 60. The arguments about life | 4:45:50 | 4:45:55 | |
expectancy may be an argument about
reforming pensions in the future but | 4:45:55 | 4:46:00 | |
these women feel cheated they
haven't got their pension at 60. I'm | 4:46:00 | 4:46:07 | |
conscious for the desire for me to
end speedily, I will write to the | 4:46:07 | 4:46:11 | |
honourable lady with a detailed
reply to her points just raised. I | 4:46:11 | 4:46:15 | |
would make the point, I have barely
had a chance to address the argument | 4:46:15 | 4:46:21 | |
made by my friend from Scotland,
whether it is the point raised | 4:46:21 | 4:46:25 | |
eloquently by my honourable friend
from Murray,... Indicated they have | 4:46:25 | 4:46:35 | |
the power under the Scotland act and
I make the point strongly there is | 4:46:35 | 4:46:45 | |
no question there is the power
because this is not dealing with | 4:46:45 | 4:46:48 | |
pensioners as such because the
provisions in relation to this is we | 4:46:48 | 4:46:51 | |
are dealing with people of working
age according to the law so I rely | 4:46:51 | 4:46:56 | |
strongly on the words frankly not of
this Government, of the Scottish | 4:46:56 | 4:47:00 | |
Government as set out in the 22nd
letter. The issue of notification | 4:47:00 | 4:47:05 | |
was raised and I can answer the
points very briefly, that there was | 4:47:05 | 4:47:11 | |
clearly massive parliamentary debate
on repeated occasions in 1995 and | 4:47:11 | 4:47:16 | |
thereafter, multiple articles in the
press and media, distribution of | 4:47:16 | 4:47:20 | |
huge numbers of media, a campaign in
2004 to educate people about their | 4:47:20 | 4:47:26 | |
state pensions, adverts in a variety
of ways, then of course | 4:47:26 | 4:47:30 | |
correspondence in two different ways
both prior to 2010 and after 2011, | 4:47:30 | 4:47:35 | |
and state pension forecasts were
sent to 19 million people over the | 4:47:35 | 4:47:41 | |
last 17 years. To conclude, modern
deck beauty speaker -- Madam Deputy | 4:47:41 | 4:47:49 | |
Speaker, I would make a couple of
points - we recognise some people | 4:47:49 | 4:47:57 | |
cannot work. The Government is
committed to supporting the | 4:47:57 | 4:48:01 | |
vulnerable and spends around £50
billion per year each on benefits to | 4:48:01 | 4:48:05 | |
support disabled people and those
with health conditions and carers, | 4:48:05 | 4:48:10 | |
as my honourable friend for
Eastleigh raised. This equates to 6% | 4:48:10 | 4:48:14 | |
of all government spending and with
increased financial pressures, we | 4:48:14 | 4:48:19 | |
cannot change a policy that was
implemented over 20 years ago and | 4:48:19 | 4:48:22 | |
supported by all three political
parties. In relation to life | 4:48:22 | 4:48:28 | |
expectancy, the honourable gentleman
for Easington and I are good example | 4:48:28 | 4:48:31 | |
of that, we have both | 4:48:31 | 4:48:43 | |
suffered from cancer, I'm delighted
to see he has made the recovery from | 4:48:43 | 4:48:46 | |
lymphatic cancer, I have made a
recovery from a brain tumour. Those | 4:48:46 | 4:48:49 | |
illnesses would have killed us
boasts 40 years ago and there's no | 4:48:49 | 4:48:51 | |
doubt life expectancy changes. With
increased financial pressures it | 4:48:51 | 4:48:54 | |
would be unaffordable and not right
in the light of the changes we have | 4:48:54 | 4:48:58 | |
had to place an unfair financial
burden on future generations. I | 4:48:58 | 4:49:05 | |
would like to thank all the members
who have participated, over 30 | 4:49:05 | 4:49:11 | |
members, directly on contributions
and numerous interventions. I do | 4:49:11 | 4:49:16 | |
hope that the Minister has taken
note of what's been said. I am an | 4:49:16 | 4:49:22 | |
eternal optimist, perhaps formed by
experiences. I think all sides will | 4:49:22 | 4:49:27 | |
build momentum and bring this
campaign to a successful conclusion. | 4:49:27 | 4:49:31 | |
I want to point out to the Minister
with all due respect that if the | 4:49:31 | 4:49:36 | |
maladministration cases are found
against the Government, we could be | 4:49:36 | 4:49:39 | |
looking at a huge settlements so it
may well be in the Government's | 4:49:39 | 4:49:44 | |
interests to find a solution to seek
a Parliamentary solution. These | 4:49:44 | 4:49:53 | |
women deserve justice and we're here
to try to deliver that today so I | 4:49:53 | 4:49:56 | |
hope the parliament will speak with
one voice and support the motion on | 4:49:56 | 4:50:01 | |
the audit paper. Thank you. The
question is as on the order paper. | 4:50:01 | 4:50:06 | |
As many are of that opinion say
aye... No...? The ayes have it. We | 4:50:06 | 4:50:21 | |
now come onto Sir Mike Penning. | 4:50:21 | 4:50:27 | |
I think we all, as constituency MPs,
hoped perhaps that this debate was | 4:50:30 | 4:50:39 | |
unnecessary. We all hoped that the
inquiry, and I used the word in | 4:50:39 | 4:50:45 | |
brackets, inquiry, that the
Government in good faith constituted | 4:50:45 | 4:50:50 | |
would have given confidence to the
families and loved ones of | 4:50:50 | 4:50:57 | |
thousands. Shall I pause while the
lady stops laughing. Thank you. I | 4:50:57 | 4:51:04 | |
think thousands of families who in
good faith, many of them went to see | 4:51:04 | 4:51:08 | |
their GP to see whether they
thought, because they thought they | 4:51:08 | 4:51:13 | |
might be pregnant. Probably one of
the most important times in any | 4:51:13 | 4:51:21 | |
woman's life, and certainly as a
father of two gorgeous girls the | 4:51:21 | 4:51:24 | |
most important time in my life when
my wife told me she was expecting | 4:51:24 | 4:51:28 | |
our children. This was something so
important to them, they very often | 4:51:28 | 4:51:36 | |
went to their GP, a natural thing to
do, so an NHS patient going to an | 4:51:36 | 4:51:43 | |
NHS surgery to see an NHS doctor for
advice about whether they were | 4:51:43 | 4:51:48 | |
pregnant. I look at the dates as to
when these mothers to be possibly | 4:51:48 | 4:51:53 | |
went to see their GP. Between 1953,
Madam Deputy Speaker, and 1975. | 4:51:53 | 4:52:02 | |
Quite a span of time. Actually my
mother could have gone to the GP | 4:52:02 | 4:52:06 | |
because I was born in 1957. It could
have easily been in many ways me | 4:52:06 | 4:52:13 | |
that was a victim of this, God
forbid, and my mother a victim as | 4:52:13 | 4:52:20 | |
well. That's one of the reasons I am
so passionate about getting to the | 4:52:20 | 4:52:24 | |
bottom of this, I think, disaster
that came to these ladies who went | 4:52:24 | 4:52:32 | |
to the GPs. Not only do they go to
GP, NHS GP, NHS surgery, as an NHS | 4:52:32 | 4:52:40 | |
patient... Very often that GP would
open the draw and give two tablets | 4:52:40 | 4:52:48 | |
sometimes with no prescription, no
advice, no concern about the | 4:52:48 | 4:52:54 | |
consequences or side-effects of that
drug, and they handed those tablets | 4:52:54 | 4:52:58 | |
over to the lady, many of them took
them directly in the surgery, and | 4:52:58 | 4:53:04 | |
they simply said to them if your
period starts tomorrow you are not | 4:53:04 | 4:53:08 | |
pregnant. If your period doesn't
start you are. And in good faith, | 4:53:08 | 4:53:17 | |
they followed that advice. Even
though the Department of Health and | 4:53:17 | 4:53:24 | |
drug companies knew there was issues
to do with this drug. I'm going to | 4:53:24 | 4:53:29 | |
use a tiny bit of privilege because
every look around to do with this | 4:53:29 | 4:53:36 | |
debate, including in the House of
Commons papers, hormone pregnancy | 4:53:36 | 4:53:39 | |
tests, the report into the
commission on human medicines, the | 4:53:39 | 4:53:58 | |
drug was primodos. Other companies
in the world knew about issues and | 4:53:59 | 4:54:06 | |
I'm not going to go into all of the
evidence given in the so-called | 4:54:06 | 4:54:11 | |
review, but lets touch on some of
the bits asked for by the Minister | 4:54:11 | 4:54:19 | |
when this group was set up. The
first point, the Government should | 4:54:19 | 4:54:24 | |
set up an expert working panel
inquiry. No such inquiry took place. | 4:54:24 | 4:54:30 | |
At the third meeting, the barrister
I understand to be inquiry advised | 4:54:30 | 4:54:34 | |
to inquiry to change the word
inquiry into review. Under what | 4:54:34 | 4:54:40 | |
authority? When a minister has set
up an inquiry, is it not an inquiry? | 4:54:40 | 4:54:47 | |
Perhaps they didn't want one, who
cares? They should have gone back to | 4:54:47 | 4:54:52 | |
the victims and more importantly the
Minister and said my advice is this | 4:54:52 | 4:54:55 | |
and the Minister could have made
that decision. People might just | 4:54:55 | 4:55:00 | |
think it is semantics, it's not,
it's vitally important if you are | 4:55:00 | 4:55:04 | |
getting to the truth as to what that
group could do. Even when the report | 4:55:04 | 4:55:10 | |
- not the original report, Madam
Deputy Speaker - the original report | 4:55:10 | 4:55:14 | |
was removed, changed and I know
others will come onto that. When it | 4:55:14 | 4:55:21 | |
came out yet again it didn't say
review because it's not a review. | 4:55:21 | 4:55:25 | |
There should be full disclosure and
a review of all the evidence. That | 4:55:25 | 4:55:33 | |
review says they did that. They
didn't. The Royal College of GPs | 4:55:33 | 4:55:37 | |
just one example, the Royal College
of GPs had informed the Department | 4:55:37 | 4:55:42 | |
and the drug company that they had
concerns way back in the 1960s. That | 4:55:42 | 4:55:49 | |
evidence was never sought. If you
read the report, no evidence at all | 4:55:49 | 4:55:55 | |
was given to this inquiry, which is
what it should have been, review, | 4:55:55 | 4:55:59 | |
from the Royal College of GPs. I
will give way but I'm only going to | 4:55:59 | 4:56:03 | |
give way a couple of times because
I'm conscious of time. Is my | 4:56:03 | 4:56:10 | |
honourable friend where the BMJ
reported that most of the scientific | 4:56:10 | 4:56:14 | |
evidence considered by the working
group was from the 1960s, 70s and | 4:56:14 | 4:56:18 | |
early 80s and one expert in the
field told the BMJ they were not | 4:56:18 | 4:56:25 | |
actually that many scientific
studies available? And would he | 4:56:25 | 4:56:28 | |
agree the Government should fund new
research with the aim of enabling a | 4:56:28 | 4:56:32 | |
definitive conclusion to be reached
on the matter? Yes, and I will come | 4:56:32 | 4:56:37 | |
onto that point in the summing up.
It is vitally important we have | 4:56:37 | 4:56:42 | |
proper evidence, not some of the
historic evidence used by the | 4:56:42 | 4:56:45 | |
report, even though they rejected
some more modern evidence because it | 4:56:45 | 4:56:50 | |
hadn't yet been peer reviewed. The
whole point of having all of the | 4:56:50 | 4:56:53 | |
evidence in front of them is one of
the reasons the motion... Bear with | 4:56:53 | 4:56:56 | |
me, the motion today which I hope
will be passed unanimously actually | 4:56:56 | 4:57:02 | |
says it should be a judge-led
inquiry. I will give way and then | 4:57:02 | 4:57:06 | |
I'm going to make some progress. I
must acknowledge my constituents | 4:57:06 | 4:57:14 | |
Charlotte and her family on behalf
of Stephen, her brother, who's been | 4:57:14 | 4:57:19 | |
affected so much by this drug. One
of the biggest issues is the handing | 4:57:19 | 4:57:24 | |
out with absolutely no talking
through about any risks and once | 4:57:24 | 4:57:29 | |
again I heard today about Jackie who
lost her baby Louisa 19 years later | 4:57:29 | 4:57:34 | |
in 1977 when that product had been
on the market for two years with | 4:57:34 | 4:57:42 | |
warnings and GPs not pointing this
out so there's a lot of evidence | 4:57:42 | 4:57:45 | |
here and why is it not in that
report, I ask my honourable friend. | 4:57:45 | 4:57:50 | |
I completely agree and one of the
things which has surprised me is | 4:57:50 | 4:57:54 | |
that even though on average every
single constituency MP in this House | 4:57:54 | 4:57:58 | |
will have a victim of primodos in
their constituency, so many Britons | 4:57:58 | 4:58:05 | |
say that it was their fault, that
they are on their own. The fantastic | 4:58:05 | 4:58:10 | |
report done by Sky where people came
forward and said I was affected by | 4:58:10 | 4:58:23 | |
this but I thought I was the only
one. The inquiry should be conducted | 4:58:23 | 4:58:28 | |
fairly and independently, they will
give people a few seconds to think | 4:58:28 | 4:58:33 | |
about that before I take my final
intervention - independently. I'm | 4:58:33 | 4:58:42 | |
grateful to the honourable
gentleman, who is making a very | 4:58:42 | 4:58:45 | |
powerful case. Given that the
inquiry/ review has now been very | 4:58:45 | 4:58:51 | |
much discredited and certainly
rejected by all of those who have | 4:58:51 | 4:58:56 | |
suffered as a result of this, would
he agree with me that - I'm sure he | 4:58:56 | 4:59:02 | |
will - the terms of his motion which
calls for a statutory inquiry under | 4:59:02 | 4:59:06 | |
the inquiry is act 2005 to review
the evidence of a possible | 4:59:06 | 4:59:11 | |
association between hormone
pregnancy tests and pregnancies, and | 4:59:11 | 4:59:15 | |
to consider the regulatory failures
of the committee of safety of | 4:59:15 | 4:59:20 | |
medicines is the way forward? I do,
and I take praise actually, the | 4:59:20 | 4:59:26 | |
clerk has helped me draft it in a
way because I was so angry after | 4:59:26 | 4:59:31 | |
reading this report, to get it into
some kind of Parliamentary language. | 4:59:31 | 4:59:36 | |
It has to be independent and
judge-led and it has to be able to | 4:59:36 | 4:59:40 | |
Sabena and summons people before it
on oath so that we can get to the | 4:59:40 | 4:59:44 | |
truth. | 4:59:44 | 4:59:50 | |
That was in place at the time. It is
I'm afraid the Department of Health | 4:59:50 | 4:59:54 | |
cannot hide behind this report. To
me that is so vitally important. The | 4:59:54 | 4:59:58 | |
third point again fair and
independent. One of the ways that it | 4:59:58 | 5:00:03 | |
could be done independently is to
have an expert witness who wasn't | 5:00:03 | 5:00:07 | |
part of the campaign but actually
everybody massively respected. For | 5:00:07 | 5:00:15 | |
those involved in the thalidomide
campaign over the years when they | 5:00:15 | 5:00:18 | |
heard Nick brick was going to put
forward I thought it was going to be | 5:00:18 | 5:00:22 | |
a positive thing. Interestingly
enough Nick was there as expert | 5:00:22 | 5:00:28 | |
witness. Assayed part of the
conclusions in any shape or form. He | 5:00:28 | 5:00:32 | |
was actually has to leave the room.
When in good faith the Minister and | 5:00:32 | 5:00:40 | |
Prime Minister they said that Nick
Dobrik had fully endorse and he was | 5:00:40 | 5:00:50 | |
gob smacked when he heard that he
was mentioned as endorsing their | 5:00:50 | 5:00:57 | |
report. He did interview with sky
today that he categorically does not | 5:00:57 | 5:01:01 | |
endorse the conclusions of this
report and it was fundamentally | 5:01:01 | 5:01:04 | |
wrong for anybody to advise the
Prime Minister or the anyone that he | 5:01:04 | 5:01:08 | |
did. He does not win the Prime
Minister and I don't. I don't | 5:01:08 | 5:01:14 | |
Minister the side of the bench you
take advice from your officials | 5:01:14 | 5:01:18 | |
you're told the situation and in
good faith you take the... Nick | 5:01:18 | 5:01:25 | |
cannot defend himself in this
chamber but on behalf of him I would | 5:01:25 | 5:01:29 | |
like whoever gave that advice to the
Ministers to formally apologise to | 5:01:29 | 5:01:35 | |
Nick Dobrik because he is a
fantastic campaign are not only for | 5:01:35 | 5:01:41 | |
all of buffer all injustices in the
pharmaceutical. The third point | 5:01:41 | 5:01:47 | |
conducted independently. The victims
not feel that at all. The victims | 5:01:47 | 5:01:52 | |
should have trust and confidence is
part and parcel of what is there. | 5:01:52 | 5:01:56 | |
That is the fourth point. I probably
the most important thing I think | 5:01:56 | 5:02:00 | |
amongst many other things, the
inquiry should find a possible | 5:02:00 | 5:02:05 | |
association. A possible association
not causal. When I questioned the | 5:02:05 | 5:02:14 | |
experts on the panel why they
changed causal face it is a | 5:02:14 | 5:02:25 | |
difficult to prove. They were
supposed to follow their remit not | 5:02:25 | 5:02:31 | |
science. This is a do as they told.
But they thought they could not do | 5:02:31 | 5:02:35 | |
because of the evidence of Pergamum,
fine. Come back to Minister, | 5:02:35 | 5:02:38 | |
comebacks of the victims and
explained that. A set of that they | 5:02:38 | 5:02:43 | |
had an absolute farcical situation
where they were looking for | 5:02:43 | 5:02:45 | |
something which they knew full well,
and it is clearly their documents, | 5:02:45 | 5:02:50 | |
but it could not come to the
conclusion there was a causal. This | 5:02:50 | 5:02:54 | |
could not come to the conclusion
that there wasn't either because the | 5:02:54 | 5:02:58 | |
evidence was not there for either
conclusion. So to me, and as I sat | 5:02:58 | 5:03:03 | |
on the floor of the House, there as
an in justice taking place here that | 5:03:03 | 5:03:13 | |
natural justice, why we were sent
here to defend our constituents on | 5:03:13 | 5:03:16 | |
the system has come down against him
and caused such horrific, horrible | 5:03:16 | 5:03:20 | |
things to them we need to actually
address it. I will give way once | 5:03:20 | 5:03:24 | |
more. I'm exceptionally great no --
exceptionally grateful. To | 5:03:24 | 5:03:33 | |
constituents contacted me saying
they believe they lost their | 5:03:33 | 5:03:35 | |
children due to the struck. One said
they lost several children. This is | 5:03:35 | 5:03:44 | |
a fundamental issue of trust.
Trusting the GP, NHS, inquiry. The | 5:03:44 | 5:03:52 | |
two constituents who been in touch
with me saying over and over again | 5:03:52 | 5:03:55 | |
we no longer have any faith in the
system. They believe it is a | 5:03:55 | 5:03:58 | |
whitewash which is why agree with
him that there should be a full | 5:03:58 | 5:04:02 | |
inquiry. I think honourable
gentleman for his support. That | 5:04:02 | 5:04:07 | |
support for the victims. There is
only one constituency in -- there is | 5:04:07 | 5:04:14 | |
no constituency in this country does
not have someone who lost their | 5:04:14 | 5:04:21 | |
child or was stillborn. Or lives
were transformed for those of | 5:04:21 | 5:04:23 | |
survive. And many, who we don't have
the figures, who were don't have the | 5:04:23 | 5:04:27 | |
figures, where five so take... There
are reports starting to come through | 5:04:27 | 5:04:32 | |
which the inquiry was not allowed to
look at, I fully endorse the fact we | 5:04:32 | 5:04:36 | |
need to look at the fact we need the
money up there to have some modern | 5:04:36 | 5:04:41 | |
reports because the methodology used
back then would never allow today | 5:04:41 | 5:04:44 | |
but we also need to see the missing
reports. We need to find the stuff | 5:04:44 | 5:04:49 | |
has gone missing in Germany. And
whether the drug company knew there | 5:04:49 | 5:04:53 | |
were here. We need to know why the
drug companies settled in America | 5:04:53 | 5:04:58 | |
using a different name for the
product, why they settled in | 5:04:58 | 5:05:02 | |
America. What evidence put before
the legal system in America where | 5:05:02 | 5:05:07 | |
they settled as fast as they could
and then gagged everything kept it | 5:05:07 | 5:05:12 | |
quiet. We have a duty in this House,
to call into question when things go | 5:05:12 | 5:05:17 | |
wrong. This started going wrong
many, before I was born. And I know | 5:05:17 | 5:05:24 | |
the Ministers and I have been a
Minister, have to say I need to | 5:05:24 | 5:05:29 | |
support my... But one of the roles
of a Minister is to question the | 5:05:29 | 5:05:33 | |
advice that they got. I know that is
what the Prime Minister will do now | 5:05:33 | 5:05:37 | |
and I hope that this House will
support the Vic Ohm's said that they | 5:05:37 | 5:05:42 | |
can have some confidence in the
system and in the NHS once again. | 5:05:42 | 5:05:47 | |
Can I suggest they will want to get
him and we have limited time. Six | 5:05:47 | 5:05:50 | |
men speeches full stop --. Six years
ago I met my constituent who shared | 5:05:50 | 5:06:00 | |
with me her struggle with her health
over her lifetime. Her mother had | 5:06:00 | 5:06:04 | |
been prescribed Primodos. Is that
despite today carried out my | 5:06:04 | 5:06:10 | |
research. Searching through
thousands of pages of documents. One | 5:06:10 | 5:06:16 | |
document from 1969 found that when
women used this homone pregnancy | 5:06:16 | 5:06:22 | |
test there was a higher incidence of
malformed babies, miscarriages, | 5:06:22 | 5:06:26 | |
stillbirth and infant death. He
found the finding are so alarming he | 5:06:26 | 5:06:31 | |
wrote the manufacturers asking them
to withdraw Primodos. It would be | 5:06:31 | 5:06:38 | |
another eight years before was taken
away from the market unlike Norway | 5:06:38 | 5:06:42 | |
and Sweden to active racist. In the
last six years I have exchanged | 5:06:42 | 5:06:47 | |
countless letters with... Work with
Sky News who have been exposing | 5:06:47 | 5:06:57 | |
this. And the victims Association. I
have raised this matter on the floor | 5:06:57 | 5:07:03 | |
many times. And with the Prime
Minister several weeks ago. And her | 5:07:03 | 5:07:08 | |
predecessor to discuss successful.
But in 2014, after a debate here in | 5:07:08 | 5:07:12 | |
this chamber, women were informed --
we were formed by a Minister that an | 5:07:12 | 5:07:18 | |
inquiry would be carried out how we
were very excited about that. We | 5:07:18 | 5:07:23 | |
were promised that inquiry would be
fair and transparent. He would have | 5:07:23 | 5:07:26 | |
the trust and confidence of all
victims and it would look at all of | 5:07:26 | 5:07:29 | |
the evidence. And said he found that
some of the experts on the panel had | 5:07:29 | 5:07:33 | |
in fact conflict of interests and
close ties with the manufacturing | 5:07:33 | 5:07:37 | |
company which is now called Bayer.
Those invited to give evidence root | 5:07:37 | 5:07:46 | |
giving after a short period of time
to tell what happened to them and | 5:07:46 | 5:07:49 | |
treated appallingly. One was pointed
out that the duct she cannot raise | 5:07:49 | 5:07:57 | |
any of the concerns that she had
with any of us with how the inquiry | 5:07:57 | 5:08:00 | |
was going. Yes of course. I thank
the honourable Lady for giving way | 5:08:00 | 5:08:06 | |
and mentioning that the interest are
Prime Minister has shown meeting | 5:08:06 | 5:08:12 | |
that the she is indeed but what they
point out like to reiterate on | 5:08:12 | 5:08:18 | |
behalf of my constituents and many
other MPs is the treatment of the | 5:08:18 | 5:08:22 | |
campaigners. Ring this process, on
acceptable, timescales which are | 5:08:22 | 5:08:29 | |
some people working for very ill
children. So I absolutely think the | 5:08:29 | 5:08:34 | |
treatment of the campaigners at the
very least needs an apology. Thank | 5:08:34 | 5:08:39 | |
you. I entirely agree with the
honourable Lady on this matter. Now | 5:08:39 | 5:08:42 | |
the inquiry was to look at the
possible association and not | 5:08:42 | 5:08:47 | |
causally. On that is very important
for. Because it is afraid different | 5:08:47 | 5:08:53 | |
burden of proof looking for a causal
link. No one knows who gave the | 5:08:53 | 5:09:01 | |
authorisation to change it. There
are thousands of documents from | 5:09:01 | 5:09:10 | |
archives show that deformities are
links to the struck. There also were | 5:09:10 | 5:09:16 | |
Department of medicine action
looking at these documents and not | 5:09:16 | 5:09:19 | |
to do anything with it. I was that
that was back when the report came | 5:09:19 | 5:09:22 | |
out the initial draft said that it
was not possible to reach a | 5:09:22 | 5:09:26 | |
definitive conclusion am however,
the final document was changed at | 5:09:26 | 5:09:31 | |
said they could reach that
conclusion. And when the chair of | 5:09:31 | 5:09:35 | |
the inquiry was asked about this I
myself and others as to why this | 5:09:35 | 5:09:43 | |
changed, she said that the
Commissioner of medicine looked at | 5:09:43 | 5:09:48 | |
the document, looking very
thoroughly and they told us that we | 5:09:48 | 5:09:50 | |
should strengthen the wording and
put... It is acceptable for that | 5:09:50 | 5:09:56 | |
commission to have asked the panel
to do that and change their | 5:09:56 | 5:09:59 | |
conclusion. As is are to be
mentioned when I asked the Prime | 5:09:59 | 5:10:03 | |
Minister this question recently one
of the reason that I Minister said | 5:10:03 | 5:10:08 | |
there was confidence and support was
that Nick Dobrik said he endorse | 5:10:08 | 5:10:15 | |
this report. But he says he's very
angry when he is tied to this | 5:10:15 | 5:10:20 | |
report. He I would ask the Minister
is he aware of that the working | 5:10:20 | 5:10:25 | |
group refused to look at the most up
to date study of Primodos conducted | 5:10:25 | 5:10:30 | |
this year. They said it had not been
peer-reviewed yet they looked at 44 | 5:10:30 | 5:10:37 | |
other nonparent you do studies and
some of the matter should produced | 5:10:37 | 5:10:39 | |
at the manufacturers themselves. The
doctor has found that it did | 5:10:39 | 5:10:46 | |
deformed fish embryos and is given
high doses actually killed them as | 5:10:46 | 5:10:49 | |
well. There also was a study box to
them that his findings were just | 5:10:49 | 5:11:01 | |
informed the Royal College of
General tagged shooters about this | 5:11:01 | 5:11:04 | |
and that study has also been ignored
and in fact there is no record of it | 5:11:04 | 5:11:08 | |
at all. And the only reason that we
know it exists is because of a | 5:11:08 | 5:11:11 | |
letter which was found which showed
that he had discussed this matter, | 5:11:11 | 5:11:17 | |
had told all the parties concerned
as to what was going on, and again | 5:11:17 | 5:11:21 | |
nothing had happened. The man in
charge of the communication of | 5:11:21 | 5:11:25 | |
safety in medicine, also conducted a
study and in fact found that there | 5:11:25 | 5:11:32 | |
were adverse reactions and what did
he do? Instead of dealing with this | 5:11:32 | 5:11:35 | |
issue he actually contacted the
manufacturers and told them quote | 5:11:35 | 5:11:41 | |
take measures to avoid medical,
legal challenges and then he eat | 5:11:41 | 5:11:47 | |
later shows that he... That all the
documents were later point to be | 5:11:47 | 5:11:55 | |
destroyed that he saw. There was a
doctor who also carried out that | 5:11:55 | 5:12:00 | |
there were significant, twofold
increases and people having | 5:12:00 | 5:12:08 | |
malformed children who use the
struck. In 1977 newest old which is | 5:12:08 | 5:12:15 | |
stopping given. That could industry
of medicine then said the | 5:12:15 | 5:12:21 | |
association is confirmed between
Primodos and deformities, confirmed, | 5:12:21 | 5:12:25 | |
unequivocal. One that was in 1977.
So why is it the expert working | 5:12:25 | 5:12:32 | |
group seem to have disregarded all
of these studies, have not bothered | 5:12:32 | 5:12:35 | |
to take any interest in what was
happening, have failed to look at | 5:12:35 | 5:12:40 | |
the regulatory failures? Further
scientific research should be | 5:12:40 | 5:12:45 | |
carried out for one reason, apart
from establishing an association, | 5:12:45 | 5:12:49 | |
but also because interestingly
enough the AWG report actually says | 5:12:49 | 5:12:55 | |
that the actual component part of
Primodos are safe to be used | 5:12:55 | 5:13:02 | |
currently. That is very worrying
because it is being used in a | 5:13:02 | 5:13:05 | |
contraceptive pills. I think
independent research needs to be | 5:13:05 | 5:13:11 | |
carried out on this because we might
find that actually even though these | 5:13:11 | 5:13:16 | |
components are being used in May be
harmful to women. Adweek could | 5:13:16 | 5:13:20 | |
prevent further problems from
occurring. I'm asking for an | 5:13:20 | 5:13:23 | |
independent inquiry as is bent
alluded to. The most of the families | 5:13:23 | 5:13:28 | |
first. Thank you very much. I thank
my right arm will front for securing | 5:13:28 | 5:13:37 | |
this extremely important debate this
afternoon. Throw the UK there have | 5:13:37 | 5:13:43 | |
been many constituents who have been
devastated by the recently published | 5:13:43 | 5:13:51 | |
outcome of the review, the
commission of health medicine | 5:13:51 | 5:13:53 | |
working group. It included the
scientific evidence did not ask -- | 5:13:53 | 5:14:01 | |
support a causal association between
promote Agassiz tests and that the | 5:14:01 | 5:14:07 | |
dot from 1953 to the early 1970s.
Between the use of hormone pregnancy | 5:14:07 | 5:14:13 | |
tests such as Primodos and the
connection of the map and | 5:14:13 | 5:14:19 | |
miscarriages or perform the fax. Our
birth defects ranging from brain | 5:14:19 | 5:14:24 | |
damage, heart abnormalities and
transpose internal organs. Of | 5:14:24 | 5:14:31 | |
particular concern to my
constituents as the apparent | 5:14:31 | 5:14:34 | |
nonavailability of a general
practitioner records for that | 5:14:34 | 5:14:37 | |
relevant period of time when she was
prescribed Primodos. Or better put | 5:14:37 | 5:14:42 | |
simply even murderous as part for
pregnancy test. | 5:14:42 | 5:14:56 | |
Yes, certainly. My constituent finds
herself in precisely the situation | 5:14:56 | 5:15:05 | |
he describes. At the time in 1969
when she gave birth to her son, she | 5:15:05 | 5:15:10 | |
attended a medical practice in
Crawley but many of the GP notes | 5:15:10 | 5:15:15 | |
were handwritten, they appear to
have been lost. Her previous | 5:15:15 | 5:15:19 | |
practice in Gloucestershire tried to
get those records and found she | 5:15:19 | 5:15:25 | |
ceased to exist for 12 years, it is
very worrying is it not. It | 5:15:25 | 5:15:33 | |
corroborates the concerns of my
constituents. As I understand it, | 5:15:33 | 5:15:40 | |
such records normally required to be
retained for the duration of that | 5:15:40 | 5:15:43 | |
patient's lifetime. It will be
interesting to recover the notes to | 5:15:43 | 5:15:55 | |
see if there is a pattern. Only
months after being prescribed with | 5:15:55 | 5:16:02 | |
Primodos in January of 1975, a
warning was added to the packaging | 5:16:02 | 5:16:06 | |
that the drug was not to be given to
pregnant women, should not be given | 5:16:06 | 5:16:10 | |
to pregnant women to repeat it. It
was conceived by my constituent this | 5:16:10 | 5:16:16 | |
was a response to the situation that
risk had been identified. My | 5:16:16 | 5:16:22 | |
constituent's child was born in
August of 1975 with serious birth | 5:16:22 | 5:16:28 | |
defects requiring major surgery. And
still today that child in adult | 5:16:28 | 5:16:33 | |
horde has to contend with associated
medical complications. However, | 5:16:33 | 5:16:37 | |
credit to both mother and child,
despite the trauma and hardship they | 5:16:37 | 5:16:43 | |
have endured, they contribute
positively to society and indeed | 5:16:43 | 5:16:46 | |
champion the care of others. One has
to ask if Primodos is not meant to | 5:16:46 | 5:16:52 | |
the birth deformities of children
whose mothers took the drug, what is | 5:16:52 | 5:16:59 | |
the common denominator for the
tragic outcome of these pregnancies? | 5:16:59 | 5:17:04 | |
It has been mooted such women should
undertake genetic test. In other | 5:17:04 | 5:17:11 | |
words is the suggestion that this
could be considered | 5:17:11 | 5:17:26 | |
coincidental. My constituent does
not consider she has received | 5:17:29 | 5:17:33 | |
justice for herself and more
importantly in her eyes justice for | 5:17:33 | 5:17:37 | |
her child. In conclusion, my
constituent feels let down at the | 5:17:37 | 5:17:42 | |
outcome and the process followed by
the expert working groups because | 5:17:42 | 5:17:46 | |
she had high hopes for the outcome,
as it brings nowhere nearer the | 5:17:46 | 5:17:50 | |
truth nor nearer to justice, for
those who may have fallen foul of | 5:17:50 | 5:17:55 | |
drugs that may not have been fit for
purpose at the time of prescribing | 5:17:55 | 5:18:01 | |
or simply given to the patients. For
the families involved, I would | 5:18:01 | 5:18:06 | |
welcome a broad-based and
independent inquiry. To review the | 5:18:06 | 5:18:10 | |
evidence of which there is much
evidence, in a long journey and a | 5:18:10 | 5:18:18 | |
big jigsaw with many pieces of the
jigsaw missing. These pieces of the | 5:18:18 | 5:18:23 | |
jigsaw should be secured for that
independent inquiry to find the | 5:18:23 | 5:18:28 | |
truth. It may be a regulatory
failure, we need to find out. It's | 5:18:28 | 5:18:33 | |
been a devastating outcome for
people subjected to hormone | 5:18:33 | 5:18:38 | |
pregnancy testing from 1953 to 1975.
The families deserve truth and | 5:18:38 | 5:18:46 | |
justice and I think it is the role
of parliamentarians to pursue | 5:18:46 | 5:18:49 | |
relentlessly the truth of Primodos
and other such drugs. I raise this | 5:18:49 | 5:18:59 | |
important issue on behalf of my
constituents and other and affected | 5:18:59 | 5:19:06 | |
constituents but also because this
is about a national scandal, about | 5:19:06 | 5:19:10 | |
the tragedy of babies either
stillborn or born with severe feet a | 5:19:10 | 5:19:16 | |
lot their mothers were given the
hormone Primodos as a pregnancy test | 5:19:16 | 5:19:23 | |
between 1953 and 1975. Primodos was
in many cases handed out in the GP | 5:19:23 | 5:19:27 | |
surgery. There has been a double
failure, inadequate regulation and | 5:19:27 | 5:19:33 | |
the failure of successive
governments to investigate what | 5:19:33 | 5:19:37 | |
happened in an open, comprehensive
and acceptable weights. Honourable | 5:19:37 | 5:19:40 | |
members have highlighted the flaws
in the findings of the expert | 5:19:40 | 5:19:44 | |
working group set up by the
commission on human medicine that | 5:19:44 | 5:19:49 | |
reported in November this year.
Those concerns include the | 5:19:49 | 5:19:52 | |
unexplained change in the groups
terms of reference from assessing | 5:19:52 | 5:19:57 | |
the possible association between
Primodos and foetal abnormalities to | 5:19:57 | 5:20:02 | |
establish that much harder to prove
causal link. It includes the | 5:20:02 | 5:20:08 | |
questions raised by its selective
use of research and the limited | 5:20:08 | 5:20:11 | |
evidence it considered. And the
categorical denial of the | 5:20:11 | 5:20:17 | |
Government's claim that as a trustee
of the thalidomide trust have | 5:20:17 | 5:20:26 | |
approved the report damages
confidence in the whole process. The | 5:20:26 | 5:20:31 | |
significant changes between the
inquiry's draft report and its final | 5:20:31 | 5:20:35 | |
conclusion undermines trust in its
findings. Indeed the draft | 5:20:35 | 5:20:39 | |
conclusions stated that due to
scarce evidence, it was not possible | 5:20:39 | 5:20:44 | |
to reach a definitive conclusion. In
contrast, the final published | 5:20:44 | 5:20:50 | |
conclusion was that the evidence did
not support a causal association | 5:20:50 | 5:20:55 | |
between the use of Primodos and
birth defects or miscarriages. In | 5:20:55 | 5:21:01 | |
short there is no confidence in the
working group's findings. What is | 5:21:01 | 5:21:07 | |
required now? First, admission that
the current situation is | 5:21:07 | 5:21:11 | |
unacceptable and that the working
group's report is inadequate, and | 5:21:11 | 5:21:16 | |
above all there must now be a public
inquiry judge-led to consider all of | 5:21:16 | 5:21:21 | |
the available evidence. This was
first called for by the late | 5:21:21 | 5:21:27 | |
lamented Jack Ashley MP as far back
as the 28th of May 19 78. And this | 5:21:27 | 5:21:36 | |
inquiry must secure the confidence
of the people affected, involving | 5:21:36 | 5:21:41 | |
them from the very beginning in
setting up its terms of reference, | 5:21:41 | 5:21:48 | |
and they must be involved
continually as the inquiry | 5:21:48 | 5:21:52 | |
progresses. That is the only way
that a report will be produced that | 5:21:52 | 5:21:56 | |
has the confidence of the people
most affected. The wide range of | 5:21:56 | 5:22:01 | |
witnesses should be called under
oath. All research, whether | 5:22:01 | 5:22:06 | |
conducted here in the UK, in Europe
or indeed internationally, should be | 5:22:06 | 5:22:12 | |
considered. More research may be
required but this should not unduly | 5:22:12 | 5:22:17 | |
delay the findings and conclusion of
the inquiry. And regulatory failure | 5:22:17 | 5:22:23 | |
should be part of the investigation.
All research must be considered and | 5:22:23 | 5:22:29 | |
evidence must be collected and
assessed from a wide range of | 5:22:29 | 5:22:34 | |
sources. There must be no cover ups.
This is the only way forward. The | 5:22:34 | 5:22:42 | |
women and families affected by
Primodos are still suffering from | 5:22:42 | 5:22:44 | |
their loss. They are still grieving.
They will not give up. They and all | 5:22:44 | 5:22:52 | |
of us deserve no less than the
truth. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, | 5:22:52 | 5:23:01 | |
and I congratulate my right
honourable friend in securing this | 5:23:01 | 5:23:06 | |
debate. This was one of the very
first issues that was brought to me | 5:23:06 | 5:23:11 | |
by a constituent following my
election as the Member for North | 5:23:11 | 5:23:15 | |
Devon two and a half years ago now
and I really want to raise her case | 5:23:15 | 5:23:19 | |
against because my point is that the
people who have been affected by | 5:23:19 | 5:23:25 | |
this, their families, their
children, mothers and babies, they | 5:23:25 | 5:23:28 | |
should be at the very centre of our
thinking and I think it's really | 5:23:28 | 5:23:33 | |
important therefore to use if I may
one example. I was contacted by my | 5:23:33 | 5:23:39 | |
constituent Diane sermon from
Barnstaple. She gave birth to | 5:23:39 | 5:23:42 | |
daughter Helen on the 29th of
November 1974. She wrote to me to | 5:23:42 | 5:23:50 | |
say she was given the drug Primodos
on the 10th of April that year. She | 5:23:50 | 5:23:56 | |
remembers the date all too clearly,
while she was pregnant. She was | 5:23:56 | 5:23:59 | |
given the hormone pregnancy test,
and Helen was eventually born in the | 5:23:59 | 5:24:07 | |
Royal Gwent Hospital in Newport.
However the baby was born with a | 5:24:07 | 5:24:11 | |
number of conditions. Hydrocephalus
with a very rare disease, brain | 5:24:11 | 5:24:18 | |
haemorrhage at 12 weeks old, Helen
suffered. Her seizures then started. | 5:24:18 | 5:24:23 | |
She was treated at the Heath
Hospital in Cardiff and at a later | 5:24:23 | 5:24:28 | |
date at great Ormond Street
Hospital. Diane has a letter from a | 5:24:28 | 5:24:31 | |
consultant neurologist at the time
that states in his opinion it was | 5:24:31 | 5:24:35 | |
the drug Primodos which caused the
difficulties to her baby. Diane told | 5:24:35 | 5:24:40 | |
me that Helen has a quality of life,
she can walk albeit short distances, | 5:24:40 | 5:24:45 | |
she needs a wheelchair for longer
distances or when she goes shopping | 5:24:45 | 5:24:50 | |
or goes out with friends. She is
able to feed herself and help with | 5:24:50 | 5:25:00 | |
her daily needs is required but she
will always need 24-hour care | 5:25:00 | 5:25:02 | |
because of her seizures. The point I
seek to make is that's just one | 5:25:02 | 5:25:07 | |
example of the extraordinary impact
that this has had on one family, on | 5:25:07 | 5:25:11 | |
one individual on one mother. But
this can be multiplied so many times | 5:25:11 | 5:25:16 | |
and that is why it is absolutely
right that my right honourable | 5:25:16 | 5:25:20 | |
friend and others on all sides of
this House, and this isn't a party | 5:25:20 | 5:25:24 | |
political issue, others are all side
of this House seek to ensure this is | 5:25:24 | 5:25:28 | |
kept in the spotlight and it's quite
right that it is. Mrs sermon is one | 5:25:28 | 5:25:34 | |
of many people, there are many
others. I do want to say though | 5:25:34 | 5:25:38 | |
there have been over the years many
attempts by governments of all | 5:25:38 | 5:25:43 | |
colours to get to the bottom of this
and I want to say I know the | 5:25:43 | 5:25:46 | |
Minister is sincere in his view in
trying to do that and find a way | 5:25:46 | 5:25:50 | |
forward that will help us get to the
bottom of what has happened. There | 5:25:50 | 5:25:55 | |
have also been a range of studies,
the difficulties in all of those | 5:25:55 | 5:26:01 | |
studies that we have had over the
years, there's so much | 5:26:01 | 5:26:06 | |
contradiction. There is no agreement
yet. The honourable lady for Bolton | 5:26:06 | 5:26:11 | |
South East and a good speech made
absolutely rightly, the point that | 5:26:11 | 5:26:17 | |
in the 1970s there was a report that
showed apparently clearly evidence | 5:26:17 | 5:26:22 | |
of a causal link. Then you look
forward and we had in 2016 the | 5:26:22 | 5:26:28 | |
report from the commission on human
medicines which said there was no | 5:26:28 | 5:26:31 | |
such evidence. And now we've had
this report from the expert working | 5:26:31 | 5:26:37 | |
group which has now come up with a
similar - I will give way - come up | 5:26:37 | 5:26:43 | |
with a similar finding. My problem
is we have so many contradictions, | 5:26:43 | 5:26:48 | |
so many differences of opinion, how
do we get to the bottom of it? You | 5:26:48 | 5:26:57 | |
referred to the report by the
commission on human medicines. That | 5:26:57 | 5:27:01 | |
was as a result of a letter I wrote
to the RH -- NHRA who looked up | 5:27:01 | 5:27:12 | |
documents in existence and did a
review and came up with an opinion, | 5:27:12 | 5:27:16 | |
it wasn't actually a study, I just
wanted to clarify that. Thank you | 5:27:16 | 5:27:23 | |
for that clarification. A lot of the
studies have been into the | 5:27:23 | 5:27:26 | |
historical evidence and historical
paperwork. She is right to make that | 5:27:26 | 5:27:32 | |
point but when you look at what was
said in the 1970s and 2016, 2017, | 5:27:32 | 5:27:38 | |
there are still differences of
opinion and this is the difficulty | 5:27:38 | 5:27:42 | |
with what we have to deal with. I've
asked the House of Commons library | 5:27:42 | 5:27:47 | |
for a lot of background information
I was going to try to get into but I | 5:27:47 | 5:27:52 | |
cannot do too much. What I would say
though is having read the latest | 5:27:52 | 5:27:56 | |
report, the report of the expert
working group, there is clearly a | 5:27:56 | 5:28:01 | |
concern which has been highlighted
clearly by my right honourable | 5:28:01 | 5:28:05 | |
friend and others of this
contradiction in what it was asked | 5:28:05 | 5:28:08 | |
to do and what it then actually
found out. This contradiction | 5:28:08 | 5:28:13 | |
between whether you have a causal
link or an association and I do | 5:28:13 | 5:28:17 | |
think that is something we need to
explore. Whether the terms of | 5:28:17 | 5:28:21 | |
reference of this expert working
group were followed in the way it is | 5:28:21 | 5:28:26 | |
carried out its investigation, and
on that I absolutely agree we need | 5:28:26 | 5:28:31 | |
to look further into what exactly
has been done here. | 5:28:31 | 5:28:38 | |
Now I understand there is further
evidence due to be published in the | 5:28:38 | 5:28:42 | |
new year, that will be important,
yes. It is not coming from the | 5:28:42 | 5:28:47 | |
working group, it is coming from the
professor that they rejected, | 5:28:47 | 5:28:52 | |
because it had not been peer
reviewed but will be the next few | 5:28:52 | 5:28:55 | |
days of. Thank you for that
complication, but what does there is | 5:28:55 | 5:28:58 | |
more to come and more information
for the -- it is important to keep | 5:28:58 | 5:29:04 | |
looking for this information, it is
important that we gather everything | 5:29:04 | 5:29:07 | |
we have -- we can to look at how we
can help people who have been | 5:29:07 | 5:29:11 | |
affected by this. There are many
other honourable right honourable | 5:29:11 | 5:29:17 | |
members who will want to speak so I
shall continue for too long, simply | 5:29:17 | 5:29:20 | |
to say a final thought, this
government in previous of | 5:29:20 | 5:29:25 | |
ministrations, have consistently
tried to look for answers to this. | 5:29:25 | 5:29:29 | |
And I know that my right honourable
friend, the Minister is absolutely | 5:29:29 | 5:29:34 | |
sincere in seeking to do this, and
seeking to take this forward. And | 5:29:34 | 5:29:37 | |
what I would like to do is to
support him and to support the | 5:29:37 | 5:29:40 | |
Government most evolved to support
those people who have been affected | 5:29:40 | 5:29:45 | |
by this in trying to work together
to find a way forward and find the | 5:29:45 | 5:29:51 | |
answer that they seek. Let this get
together, everyone, experts | 5:29:51 | 5:29:57 | |
Department of Health and crucially
the families affected on all sides, | 5:29:57 | 5:30:01 | |
of this. And the MPs, all of us from
all sides of the chamber who | 5:30:01 | 5:30:05 | |
represent them to try and to get the
answers. And I want to and by | 5:30:05 | 5:30:11 | |
referring back to my constituent
Diane, because as I say at the | 5:30:11 | 5:30:14 | |
centre of this, it must be those
affected and a further letter to me, | 5:30:14 | 5:30:18 | |
she says this. In my heart, I feel
positive it was the drug primodos | 5:30:18 | 5:30:23 | |
was caused headed's injuries. After
I took the tablets I was in and out | 5:30:23 | 5:30:28 | |
of hospital, I carried lots of food
which I have been told is a sign of | 5:30:28 | 5:30:33 | |
abnormal foetus. I have had two
normal pregnancies before heading. | 5:30:33 | 5:30:39 | |
And she ends with these words which
are extraordinarily powerful, I feel | 5:30:39 | 5:30:43 | |
very angry and I feel that we were
used as guinea pigs. Now for the | 5:30:43 | 5:30:49 | |
sake of Diane, and for the others
who we represent on all sides of | 5:30:49 | 5:30:54 | |
this House, let us focus on the
effect that this truck has had on | 5:30:54 | 5:30:59 | |
them and their families. And it is
all work together, and I know the | 5:30:59 | 5:31:03 | |
Minister is sincerely wishing to do
that, but this all work together to | 5:31:03 | 5:31:06 | |
find the answers that they seek.
Keeping them and their suffering at | 5:31:06 | 5:31:10 | |
the centre of this at all times.
Memes we will have to drop a 25 ad | 5:31:10 | 5:31:17 | |
will go lower, just. Thank you
Deputy Speaker, can I start by | 5:31:17 | 5:31:21 | |
paying tribute to the right
honourable member and my little | 5:31:21 | 5:31:23 | |
friend, that's honourable friend,
both securing this debate and also | 5:31:23 | 5:31:29 | |
for their work on this issue over
years and other members who had | 5:31:29 | 5:31:36 | |
pursued justice for the victims of
primodos over time. I can relatively | 5:31:36 | 5:31:40 | |
relate to the issue, but one thing
is clear to me, as my honourable | 5:31:40 | 5:31:45 | |
friend, says the lesson we have to
learn from previous scandals, is | 5:31:45 | 5:31:53 | |
that any inquiry must have the
confidence of the victims and their | 5:31:53 | 5:31:57 | |
review report of the expert working
group has already failed that test. | 5:31:57 | 5:32:02 | |
I'm speaking today because
constituents of mine have been | 5:32:02 | 5:32:05 | |
affected by the tragic set of events
related to the task, and have | 5:32:05 | 5:32:10 | |
contacted me saying they have no
confidence in the process or | 5:32:10 | 5:32:13 | |
conclusions of the report. The peers
and McLendon family have had their | 5:32:13 | 5:32:20 | |
lives changed by the drug, there can
visit their family issues are a | 5:32:20 | 5:32:24 | |
direct result of primodos use. My
constituent and his daughter has | 5:32:24 | 5:32:31 | |
suffered life changing multiple
health issues. This is just to many | 5:32:31 | 5:32:39 | |
of thousands who need to seek
justice, for the harm caused by the | 5:32:39 | 5:32:43 | |
drug and the announcement over the
review gave them some see hope, but | 5:32:43 | 5:32:47 | |
sadly have not been contacted in the
recent weeks, and they shared their | 5:32:47 | 5:32:52 | |
disappointment and anger experienced
by many following the publication of | 5:32:52 | 5:32:55 | |
the report. Mr Deputy Speaker, there
are too many question marks over the | 5:32:55 | 5:33:01 | |
process and conclusions of the
report. The review report itself | 5:33:01 | 5:33:05 | |
talks about the difficulty via route
finding a robust conclusion. It did | 5:33:05 | 5:33:12 | |
miss the available evidence was very
limited, it then concludes that the | 5:33:12 | 5:33:17 | |
body of evidence did not unbalanced,
keyword, support an association | 5:33:17 | 5:33:20 | |
between use of HP keys and
congenital anomalies. We need more | 5:33:20 | 5:33:27 | |
explanation of how what is meant by
those words on balance in the like | 5:33:27 | 5:33:31 | |
of such limited evidence. As we have
heard, in 1977 the medical regulator | 5:33:31 | 5:33:37 | |
wrote that there was an association
between these tests and birth | 5:33:37 | 5:33:41 | |
defects. So we much asked, what new
study and evidence is available to | 5:33:41 | 5:33:45 | |
dispute that conclusion and without
new research, trying to establish a | 5:33:45 | 5:33:50 | |
new body of evidence is not possible
to disarm and whether primodos is or | 5:33:50 | 5:33:54 | |
not safe. So a suggestion I agree
with if they can create a fund to | 5:33:54 | 5:34:01 | |
enable these studies, perhaps using
imaging and molecular study to try | 5:34:01 | 5:34:05 | |
to get to the truth. Even the
studies are unlikely to resolve the | 5:34:05 | 5:34:09 | |
issue definitively. It is likely to
come down to a judgement on behalf | 5:34:09 | 5:34:15 | |
of government on where
responsibility lies, but it would at | 5:34:15 | 5:34:18 | |
least give comfort to the victims of
the whole process has been carried | 5:34:18 | 5:34:22 | |
out thoroughly. There are as we have
heard, questions about regular Tory | 5:34:22 | 5:34:26 | |
regime, surrounding, common
pregnancy test, and I do not have | 5:34:26 | 5:34:29 | |
time to get into the details, but
the biggest question is whether the | 5:34:29 | 5:34:33 | |
product should've been allowed on
the market at all, without proper | 5:34:33 | 5:34:35 | |
texting. That's testing. I would
like to thank my honourable friend | 5:34:35 | 5:34:42 | |
for giving way and making an
excellent speech I would also like | 5:34:42 | 5:34:46 | |
to commend the right honourable
member from Hempstead bring forth | 5:34:46 | 5:34:51 | |
the motion and indeed other members
in particular, the honourable member | 5:34:51 | 5:34:55 | |
for Bolton South East, for all of
her work over the years. I think my | 5:34:55 | 5:34:59 | |
honourable friend will be aware that
countries such as Finland, Sweden, | 5:34:59 | 5:35:02 | |
Holland and Norway and the use of
hormone pregnancy tests, between | 5:35:02 | 5:35:09 | |
1970 and 1971, does he not agree
with me that the warning signs were | 5:35:09 | 5:35:12 | |
kiddie indicated at the time and
therefore should have been taken at | 5:35:12 | 5:35:15 | |
that time to prevent foetal
malformations and heartache? He's | 5:35:15 | 5:35:23 | |
right that makes a good point, we
should ask why it this a little | 5:35:23 | 5:35:27 | |
regulation for so long to that it is
possible to regulate up on a per | 5:35:27 | 5:35:32 | |
cautionary basis, and whether there
is a government liability under | 5:35:32 | 5:35:36 | |
General product lot, which is meant
to protect citizens. These are | 5:35:36 | 5:35:38 | |
questions that need to be
considered, in detail. Finally there | 5:35:38 | 5:35:43 | |
are the questions we heard about the
transparency of the report. We have | 5:35:43 | 5:35:47 | |
heard that the published report is
not the original report first | 5:35:47 | 5:35:51 | |
presented, and a number of
inaccuracies were reported including | 5:35:51 | 5:35:55 | |
the were definitive that was removed
to do so is this a definitive report | 5:35:55 | 5:36:00 | |
and if not think really we need a
new inquiry. I'm running out of time | 5:36:00 | 5:36:06 | |
so will not talk in great detail
about the other issues of | 5:36:06 | 5:36:11 | |
transparency because other people
covered it, but Mr Deputy -- Deputy | 5:36:11 | 5:36:15 | |
Speaker there are too many question
marks over this issue, in order to | 5:36:15 | 5:36:18 | |
regain trust, we -- government must
commit to just let public inquiry to | 5:36:18 | 5:36:23 | |
look again at the issue. The inquiry
must have powers needed to bring to | 5:36:23 | 5:36:30 | |
light all available evidence
relating to the scandal including | 5:36:30 | 5:36:34 | |
the ability to compel witnesses to
give all evidence. The inquiry must | 5:36:34 | 5:36:38 | |
be broad enough to look at the
scientific and legal issues in the | 5:36:38 | 5:36:42 | |
case. Including allegations of a
liability. And finally, the victims | 5:36:42 | 5:36:46 | |
and the families must be involved in
the design and implementation of the | 5:36:46 | 5:36:49 | |
inquiry, following the hills for
inquiries families of first | 5:36:49 | 5:36:52 | |
approach. As we heard, there are
concerts across the House, on the | 5:36:52 | 5:36:58 | |
issue this is not a political issue,
something is not right here. And we | 5:36:58 | 5:37:01 | |
need to get to the truth, we owe it
to the victims and we owe it to | 5:37:01 | 5:37:07 | |
people who may still be taking
products related to this drugs. It | 5:37:07 | 5:37:12 | |
is time, the only way we can do that
is to have a judge let inquiry to | 5:37:12 | 5:37:18 | |
get to the truth. Melo thank you
Deputy Speaker, and my | 5:37:18 | 5:37:23 | |
congratulations to the right
honourable member for bringing forth | 5:37:23 | 5:37:28 | |
this debate and may I add my weight
and support to this called for | 5:37:28 | 5:37:34 | |
statutory inquiry over the scandal
of the supply of primodos, as a | 5:37:34 | 5:37:39 | |
pregnancy test. He drew attention
over the years to the product use | 5:37:39 | 5:37:43 | |
and like him I am a product of 1957
and could've easily have been my | 5:37:43 | 5:37:47 | |
mother who took the drug. In the
same way, and members across the | 5:37:47 | 5:37:51 | |
chamber, have referred to their
constituents and the contact with a | 5:37:51 | 5:37:55 | |
constituent of mine that has brought
me to contribute to today's debate, | 5:37:55 | 5:38:02 | |
and the president Ken Pasini,
contacted me on many occasions, is | 5:38:02 | 5:38:04 | |
Irene, who lives in my constituency,
and I over something of an apology. | 5:38:04 | 5:38:14 | |
Because on the first point of
contact, I'm afraid I gave her | 5:38:14 | 5:38:17 | |
rather standard reply and did not
really know her or understand enough | 5:38:17 | 5:38:22 | |
about the issues that were affecting
her and she continued to write to me | 5:38:22 | 5:38:28 | |
and draw my attention to the issue
and we eventually met in June 20 14. | 5:38:28 | 5:38:33 | |
And then again in August 2015, when
she brought along her daughter | 5:38:33 | 5:38:42 | |
Camaro. Kammerer was born in
February 1973, she is now 44 years | 5:38:42 | 5:38:49 | |
old, and like the member of the
constituency, she was very able to | 5:38:49 | 5:38:56 | |
come me the date on which she was
first given primodos, which was on | 5:38:56 | 5:38:59 | |
the 19th of June 1972 when she
understood that she was at | 5:38:59 | 5:39:05 | |
approximately 7-8 weeks pregnant.
She gave birth to her daughter with | 5:39:05 | 5:39:10 | |
brain damage and that has led to
many other debilitating issues such | 5:39:10 | 5:39:14 | |
as learning difficulties and
epilepsy. At our meeting, she asked | 5:39:14 | 5:39:21 | |
me to meet with Marie who runs the
Association for children that is why | 5:39:21 | 5:39:28 | |
hormone pregnancy test, and I think
we should pay tribute to them Mr | 5:39:28 | 5:39:32 | |
Deputy Speaker for their work that
they have done intron people's | 5:39:32 | 5:39:36 | |
attention to this particular issue
and making sure that the Dutch | 5:39:36 | 5:39:40 | |
members are hearing and informed and
know exactly what has happened. The | 5:39:40 | 5:39:46 | |
other key point that she told me
about was that there was no advice | 5:39:46 | 5:39:50 | |
whatsoever given to her. About any
possible side effects of taking this | 5:39:50 | 5:39:55 | |
particular drug. She drew my
attention to the many meetings that | 5:39:55 | 5:40:01 | |
the party group at, and I know the
member of Bolton South East has put | 5:40:01 | 5:40:04 | |
tremendous work in it, and bringing
the party group together and adding | 5:40:04 | 5:40:08 | |
to the lobby in this particular
case. The most recent contact I had | 5:40:08 | 5:40:13 | |
on the issue was from her daughter,
who wrote letter to me telling me | 5:40:13 | 5:40:18 | |
that she herself is a victim of a
primodos, as she wrote to me on the | 5:40:18 | 5:40:24 | |
28th of November, telling me about
the inadequate nature of the report | 5:40:24 | 5:40:30 | |
of the expert working group, as she
set out for me the case which the | 5:40:30 | 5:40:36 | |
honourable member made, why that is
completely inadequate and why there | 5:40:36 | 5:40:41 | |
needs to be a further look at this
issue in exactly the same way as | 5:40:41 | 5:40:45 | |
many members across the chamber have
requested. I agree with a dusty | 5:40:45 | 5:40:51 | |
member from Hamilton said, this is
an issue or badly need to get to | 5:40:51 | 5:40:55 | |
truth and all the members in the
chamber, very much looking forward | 5:40:55 | 5:40:58 | |
to whatever positive remarks the
Minister may be able to make today. | 5:40:58 | 5:41:07 | |
Thank you Mr Speaker, I would like
to pay tribute to Marie, whose | 5:41:07 | 5:41:12 | |
charities Association, she's a
mother of a child despite primodos | 5:41:12 | 5:41:16 | |
and my constituent. The families pin
their hopes are true, families let | 5:41:16 | 5:41:22 | |
down by their doctors and regulators
and now the left -- but the | 5:41:22 | 5:41:28 | |
motherboard. They deserve a
transparency process that is now | 5:41:28 | 5:41:33 | |
shrouded in secrecy, the Observer
was about by confidentiality order | 5:41:33 | 5:41:37 | |
that there is, and I'm not just
talking about one constituent that I | 5:41:37 | 5:41:40 | |
have, I have nine in a relatively
small geographic area, who have | 5:41:40 | 5:41:45 | |
children born with defects, and I do
not know how many miscarriages or | 5:41:45 | 5:41:49 | |
stillbirths there were, what women
were given the struck him up by | 5:41:49 | 5:41:52 | |
believe we should try to get those
figures and I would like to also | 5:41:52 | 5:41:56 | |
know if as it is claimed, if this is
a naturally occurring event, whether | 5:41:56 | 5:41:59 | |
nine babies in the similar timescale
with similar defects aboard to women | 5:41:59 | 5:42:03 | |
in my area who did not take
primodos. Often as we have heard, | 5:42:03 | 5:42:08 | |
the women were not given a
prescription there were given a pail | 5:42:08 | 5:42:11 | |
with a joke saying we don't have to
kill the rabbit now this is the new | 5:42:11 | 5:42:15 | |
way, so we may never know the true
figures. But to return to the | 5:42:15 | 5:42:18 | |
inquiry, first major failing we
believe there was no agreement to | 5:42:18 | 5:42:22 | |
look at the possible link not cause
a link and that is not the | 5:42:22 | 5:42:26 | |
semantics, it actually lowers the
burden of proof. Secondly, there | 5:42:26 | 5:42:31 | |
were conflicts of interest rates by
Marie at the time, and many of the | 5:42:31 | 5:42:34 | |
experts who worked for the companies
at the time, the victims who were | 5:42:34 | 5:42:38 | |
invited to give evidence were
treated appallingly and there was a | 5:42:38 | 5:42:42 | |
selective use of studies, the
majority favour the link, and there | 5:42:42 | 5:42:47 | |
was the speedy withdrawal of the
draft report which took two years to | 5:42:47 | 5:42:50 | |
come to its conclusion, and yet all
the press and reports advice for | 5:42:50 | 5:42:56 | |
counsel were quickly after Marie
Lyons went and gave a presentation. | 5:42:56 | 5:43:03 | |
The first draft she saw stated it
was not possible to reach definitive | 5:43:03 | 5:43:07 | |
conclusions and have many
inconsistencies. The Forks later, | 5:43:07 | 5:43:11 | |
the final report came out, and a
final report removed that paragraph | 5:43:11 | 5:43:16 | |
which contains upgrades, it also
removed many of the inconsistencies | 5:43:16 | 5:43:21 | |
she's highlighted. Now I have read
the report, and I am not a | 5:43:21 | 5:43:25 | |
scientist, but if ever there was a
report that reads at the conclusion | 5:43:25 | 5:43:28 | |
was written for us, and the data was
later date than this report takes | 5:43:28 | 5:43:32 | |
all the Bosco. -- boxes. I'm
particularly incensed by the other | 5:43:32 | 5:43:40 | |
genetic testing, briefly talking
about when my constituents who came | 5:43:40 | 5:43:43 | |
to me and she is a severely disabled
son, she had taken primodos and went | 5:43:43 | 5:43:48 | |
to the doctors for analysis and she
wanted a big family. She said she | 5:43:48 | 5:43:52 | |
had a lot of love to get, as she was
told it was probably her fault so | 5:43:52 | 5:43:56 | |
she would never -- so she never had
any more children. So to have the | 5:43:56 | 5:44:00 | |
suggested again in the report is
beyond devastating for her. It | 5:44:00 | 5:44:04 | |
relies on a lot of old studies which
I believe should be research finds a | 5:44:04 | 5:44:10 | |
reinforced, for the new studies and
we need to check whether the current | 5:44:10 | 5:44:13 | |
regulators are fit for purpose. We
cannot allow our children and | 5:44:13 | 5:44:17 | |
grandchildren to be put in this
position again. We cannot go back | 5:44:17 | 5:44:21 | |
and make things right for these
families. But we what we can do is | 5:44:21 | 5:44:25 | |
give them answers about what went
wrong and how it went wrong right a | 5:44:25 | 5:44:30 | |
fully independent Outlook inquiry
and that means full disclosure of | 5:44:30 | 5:44:35 | |
all documents. Through a process
managed by the victims and I can | 5:44:35 | 5:44:40 | |
assure everybody here at that Marie
is quite capable of managing the | 5:44:40 | 5:44:44 | |
process. | 5:44:44 | 5:44:49 | |
They need the opportunity to
scrutinise written and oral | 5:44:49 | 5:44:52 | |
evidence. It has to be wide and
broad, it has to investigate not | 5:44:52 | 5:44:58 | |
just a possible association but why
the regulatory bodies failed to | 5:44:58 | 5:45:02 | |
withdraw the drug despite being
aware of the dangers. The warnings | 5:45:02 | 5:45:06 | |
were first given in 1958 but the
medical profession wasn't alerted | 5:45:06 | 5:45:12 | |
until 1975, and even in 1977 it was
still being prescribed. We must look | 5:45:12 | 5:45:18 | |
into the allegations of criminal
conduct, why there was no | 5:45:18 | 5:45:22 | |
intervention by government bodies
and why the risks | 5:45:22 | 5:45:33 | |
were hidden from the victims and the
role of the manufacturer in this. | 5:45:34 | 5:45:37 | |
And most importantly families have
to be centre of this inquiry. They | 5:45:37 | 5:45:39 | |
must have a role in deciding the
terms of reference and they have to | 5:45:39 | 5:45:42 | |
see a true light being shone on what
has been a very dark period, and | 5:45:42 | 5:45:45 | |
there should be some compensation.
Nothing can compensate for the 40 | 5:45:45 | 5:45:48 | |
years of injustice but financial
security would ease some of their | 5:45:48 | 5:45:52 | |
worries. This won't go away, the
families won't go away and as they | 5:45:52 | 5:45:57 | |
age their need for answers grows
more urgent. I urge the Government | 5:45:57 | 5:46:01 | |
to act upon this motion speedily to
give the families some peace and | 5:46:01 | 5:46:11 | |
restore their trust in justice. Like
many other members in this place, I | 5:46:11 | 5:46:18 | |
represent families who strongly
believe their lives were forever | 5:46:18 | 5:46:22 | |
changed true to -- due to the drug
Primodos. Today I speak on behalf of | 5:46:22 | 5:46:35 | |
the Gooch family. Their criticisms
of the expert working group 's | 5:46:35 | 5:46:40 | |
report on why they will continue
their fight for justice and layout | 5:46:40 | 5:46:44 | |
with us today. In June 1970 Chris
Gooch was described Primodos by her | 5:46:44 | 5:46:50 | |
GP to find out whether or not she
was pregnant. She trusted the words | 5:46:50 | 5:46:55 | |
of her GP and had no idea the drug
might Beyonce 's or that it had been | 5:46:55 | 5:47:00 | |
linked to deformities. It was only
when her daughter Emma was born in | 5:47:00 | 5:47:06 | |
January 1971 that she was found to
have deformities in her hands and | 5:47:06 | 5:47:11 | |
feet with both sets of fingers
foreshortened and her toes webbed | 5:47:11 | 5:47:15 | |
and foreshortened. Her mother told
me about how Emma had struggled to | 5:47:15 | 5:47:21 | |
live with these deformities for her
entire life. Chris said, "There are | 5:47:21 | 5:47:27 | |
many things Emma would have liked to
have done like playing the piano, | 5:47:27 | 5:47:31 | |
but she has been unable to do so
because of limited mobility in her | 5:47:31 | 5:47:35 | |
hands. This also came to impact her
education and at secondary school | 5:47:35 | 5:47:40 | |
she became school phobic and was
physically sick every morning before | 5:47:40 | 5:47:44 | |
going to school. Emma has always
suffered from severe back problems | 5:47:44 | 5:47:48 | |
and has had to live in intense pain
all the time. She has sought | 5:47:48 | 5:47:55 | |
treatment and scams have confirmed
she has spinal deterioration for | 5:47:55 | 5:47:58 | |
which she was offered a spinal
fusion. This only had a limited | 5:47:58 | 5:48:02 | |
chance of success and risked making
her condition worse. Emma refused | 5:48:02 | 5:48:06 | |
this and is trying to come to terms
with her long-term prognosis. She | 5:48:06 | 5:48:11 | |
can't work full-time, she has to pay
for all her medications and has even | 5:48:11 | 5:48:15 | |
been refused a blue badge despite
having to use a stick to walk and | 5:48:15 | 5:48:20 | |
having no proper fingers or toes.
Emma will be 47 next month and can | 5:48:20 | 5:48:25 | |
only manage to work for three days a
week and even in | 5:48:25 | 5:48:39 | |
this she finds extremely draining.
She's worried about her ability to | 5:48:44 | 5:48:46 | |
keep working in the future and the
implications this has for her | 5:48:46 | 5:48:48 | |
financially and socially." Mr Deputy
Speaker, I met with Emma and she | 5:48:48 | 5:48:51 | |
told me "Myself and many others have
to live with the devastating results | 5:48:51 | 5:48:53 | |
of mothers being given hormone
pregnancy tests like Primodos. While | 5:48:53 | 5:48:55 | |
the effects on me were much less
severe than another that since I was | 5:48:55 | 5:48:59 | |
born with specific deformities which
I've only seen shared by other | 5:48:59 | 5:49:03 | |
Primodos victims so in my mind this
can be the only possible cause." | 5:49:03 | 5:49:09 | |
Would the lady agree there are
others not so severely affected, who | 5:49:09 | 5:49:15 | |
are similarly affected and feel
great pain. I absolutely agree. It | 5:49:15 | 5:49:24 | |
was said across this chamber today
that we are giving examples but | 5:49:24 | 5:49:27 | |
there are many victims with
different levels of disability, | 5:49:27 | 5:49:31 | |
illness and deformity due to this
drug. When I asked Chris and Emma | 5:49:31 | 5:49:36 | |
what they thought about the expert
working group's report and how the | 5:49:36 | 5:49:41 | |
inquiry process was handled over the
last three years, their criticisms | 5:49:41 | 5:49:45 | |
could not have been clearer. Chris
told me "I feel angry they treated | 5:49:45 | 5:49:50 | |
us like idiots, we have been treated
appallingly. The group produced a | 5:49:50 | 5:49:56 | |
report in October and then followed
a meeting with our chair. They | 5:49:56 | 5:50:00 | |
removed some material and reissued
it a month later. They said it was | 5:50:00 | 5:50:04 | |
to make it more readable. They found
no causal | 5:50:04 | 5:50:18 | |
link which they weren't even request
to look for. They only gave Dave's | 5:50:32 | 5:50:35 | |
notice to organise a visit to hear
the findings of the report and I'm | 5:50:35 | 5:50:38 | |
sure that's because they hoped no
one would turn up to hear them. Now | 5:50:38 | 5:50:40 | |
nearly 50 years on our children, the
ones who are still alive, are still | 5:50:40 | 5:50:43 | |
suffering. I'm angry that for Emma
and many other members of the | 5:50:43 | 5:50:46 | |
association, the children damaged by
hormone pregnancy tests, life is a | 5:50:46 | 5:50:48 | |
constant struggle and we still
haven't really been heard." Emma | 5:50:48 | 5:50:50 | |
herself told me she cannot help but
feel angry that for decades we have | 5:50:50 | 5:50:53 | |
waited for an independent and
unbiased inquiry that the expert | 5:50:53 | 5:50:55 | |
working group is obviously flawed
report feels like an attempt to | 5:50:55 | 5:50:57 | |
discredit us and protect the people
at fault. I have been reminded of | 5:50:57 | 5:51:07 | |
the thalidomide and contaminated
blood scandals. I am reminded of the | 5:51:07 | 5:51:15 | |
fact it took decades of tireless
campaigning until the truth and | 5:51:15 | 5:51:18 | |
natural justice was reached. The
inquiry has been accused of failing | 5:51:18 | 5:51:22 | |
to consider all of the evidence
fairly, failing to have the trust | 5:51:22 | 5:51:26 | |
and confidence of the victims for
who it was set up and failing to be | 5:51:26 | 5:51:30 | |
transparent and open in its due
process. The inquiry failed to | 5:51:30 | 5:51:35 | |
consider any evidence regarding
systematic regulatory failures of | 5:51:35 | 5:51:38 | |
government bodies at the time.
Campaigners have widely dismissed | 5:51:38 | 5:51:45 | |
the inquiry is seriously flawed. I
joined the calls for a public | 5:51:45 | 5:51:49 | |
inquiry into the use of Primodos and
its connection to deformities and | 5:51:49 | 5:51:53 | |
other birth defects. I want to end
by once again quoting the words of | 5:51:53 | 5:51:58 | |
my constituents, and the Gooch. As I
believe her determination will be | 5:51:58 | 5:52:02 | |
shared by other members from all
sides of the House - Emma Gooch. She | 5:52:02 | 5:52:10 | |
said the victims and parents still
deserve justice and we will continue | 5:52:10 | 5:52:14 | |
to fight for it. Can I join in
thanks to the honourable friend for | 5:52:14 | 5:52:23 | |
Hamill and Alton Southeast that
actually perhaps even more than | 5:52:23 | 5:52:28 | |
them, they will forgive me for this,
it is the people who have been | 5:52:28 | 5:52:33 | |
campaigning, some for many decades
to get justice, and to have the | 5:52:33 | 5:52:36 | |
truth revealed about what Primodos
was all about. I am very strong | 5:52:36 | 5:52:41 | |
listening to the Honourable members,
the consistency of the stories but | 5:52:41 | 5:52:44 | |
there is one detail, and I don't
think the Minister will be able to | 5:52:44 | 5:52:50 | |
help and that's not a challenge to
him, we will probably never know how | 5:52:50 | 5:52:55 | |
many women were given Primodos, we
will probably never know and nor | 5:52:55 | 5:52:58 | |
will the victims of Primodos always
have been in a position to know they | 5:52:58 | 5:53:03 | |
were victims because even amongst my
own constituents, one constituent of | 5:53:03 | 5:53:08 | |
mine who took Primodos has a
pregnancy test those years back, she | 5:53:08 | 5:53:13 | |
lost a child a month after he was
born with a blocked oesophagus and | 5:53:13 | 5:53:23 | |
other physical difficulties. She has
spent a life not knowing the child | 5:53:23 | 5:53:30 | |
she was brought up with. One of my
constituents who was born with only | 5:53:30 | 5:53:34 | |
one finger on each hand, reduced
films and only eight toes, has spent | 5:53:34 | 5:53:40 | |
a life as somebody with
disabilities, trying to live a full | 5:53:40 | 5:53:44 | |
life. She's a mother of a healthy
child, she works and all those | 5:53:44 | 5:53:48 | |
things we would applaud in her, but
she only begun to that Primodos | 5:53:48 | 5:53:54 | |
might have been the cause of her
disabilities when in casual | 5:53:54 | 5:53:59 | |
conversation with her mother before
her mother died she told her about | 5:53:59 | 5:54:03 | |
the tests she'd had those years back
before she was born, and then a bit | 5:54:03 | 5:54:08 | |
later on linking up her own
disabilities as being remarkably | 5:54:08 | 5:54:12 | |
similar to those who were Primodos
victims elsewhere and having found | 5:54:12 | 5:54:17 | |
nobody else with similar kinds of
disabilities. Mr Deputy Speaker, | 5:54:17 | 5:54:22 | |
that's why I say we may never
properly know the number of victims. | 5:54:22 | 5:54:29 | |
Our society ought to be able to
establish the real truth in this | 5:54:29 | 5:54:33 | |
issue. It matters because there is a
strange that vested interests have | 5:54:33 | 5:54:43 | |
for many decades, for 40 years, been
able to obscure and simply | 5:54:43 | 5:54:49 | |
deliberately to prevent the truth
coming out. Of course there are | 5:54:49 | 5:54:53 | |
consequences if the truth does come
out, if we can establish exact may | 5:54:53 | 5:55:00 | |
be scientifically provable
causalities is actually difficult | 5:55:00 | 5:55:02 | |
over this period of time because of
course this is a drug that is no | 5:55:02 | 5:55:06 | |
longer going to be used for the
purpose it was originally inflicted | 5:55:06 | 5:55:10 | |
on women for. So the kind of
scientific veracity may be difficult | 5:55:10 | 5:55:16 | |
test in a way that would let
scientists insist that the causal | 5:55:16 | 5:55:21 | |
link is proven. It doesn't mean to
the consistency, if you want, even | 5:55:21 | 5:55:28 | |
the statistical consistency of
victims relative to the use of this | 5:55:28 | 5:55:33 | |
drug isn't one that should give us a
genuine belief that there is enough | 5:55:33 | 5:55:41 | |
correlation to allow us to draw our
own conclusions. That's important | 5:55:41 | 5:55:45 | |
because this in the end for the
victims, yes of course they want the | 5:55:45 | 5:55:49 | |
truth, they want the scientific
community, the medical community, to | 5:55:49 | 5:55:56 | |
accept and own up to the faults. We
have got to say never again can we | 5:55:56 | 5:56:01 | |
have this kind of... Can no longer
have a medical community driven by | 5:56:01 | 5:56:12 | |
money but where money actually says
they are willing to let the light | 5:56:12 | 5:56:16 | |
shine into their practice. We can't
have that regime any more so | 5:56:16 | 5:56:20 | |
Primodos matters to the victims and
it matters because of what it means | 5:56:20 | 5:56:24 | |
even more so. If I can conclude by
simply saying this, of course | 5:56:24 | 5:56:29 | |
victims do look if we can move this
debate forward, if we can have this | 5:56:29 | 5:56:34 | |
judge-led inquiry, if we can have
some credibility of those final | 5:56:34 | 5:56:39 | |
reports. Of course that will lead,
and I understand why governments can | 5:56:39 | 5:56:43 | |
be reluctant on this, to the demand
of compensation. But as my | 5:56:43 | 5:56:48 | |
constituents says at the moment she
is leading a very full life despite | 5:56:48 | 5:56:53 | |
her disabilities but she's 51 now.
She says she can feel the future | 5:56:53 | 5:56:57 | |
beginning to impose on her. She
would like to believe that as she | 5:56:57 | 5:57:01 | |
reaches an older age, when she finds
it even more difficult to carry her | 5:57:01 | 5:57:07 | |
shopping, that there is some
recognition and where appropriate | 5:57:07 | 5:57:10 | |
compensation. I am here because of
my constituent Sue Illsley who took | 5:57:10 | 5:57:17 | |
this drug when she was a teenager
and her daughter has suffered | 5:57:17 | 5:57:22 | |
disabilities as a result, and it's
obviously affected her whole life. I | 5:57:22 | 5:57:26 | |
want to pay tribute to the
honourable member for Hamill instead | 5:57:26 | 5:57:32 | |
and Bolton South East and hope the
Minister will reread speeches of my | 5:57:32 | 5:57:35 | |
Honourable friends because they made
some powerful points about the | 5:57:35 | 5:57:41 | |
evidence. I want to use some
evidence given to me by Jason | 5:57:41 | 5:57:49 | |
Farrell, the investigative news
reporter from Sky, who has done a | 5:57:49 | 5:57:56 | |
fantastic job over the years to
bring this to light and refer to | 5:57:56 | 5:57:59 | |
some documents he found in the
Berlin Wall National Archives. | 5:57:59 | 5:58:03 | |
Minutes of meetings between the
company Shearing chemicals Limited | 5:58:03 | 5:58:07 | |
and their lawyer and one scientific
adviser. I'm going to read expats | 5:58:07 | 5:58:13 | |
from the minutes of a meeting held
in 1977 at Goldsmith building Temple | 5:58:13 | 5:58:19 | |
London, when Shearing were getting
legal advice. There are few extracts | 5:58:19 | 5:58:30 | |
which show this has been a whole
cover-up over years and it has to | 5:58:30 | 5:58:35 | |
stop here today. We have to pass
this motion and the Government have | 5:58:35 | 5:58:40 | |
to have no more cover-ups. | 5:58:40 | 5:58:45 | |
He then went on to write a letter
addressing many doctors and 9068, | 5:58:45 | 5:58:50 | |
requesting that it was important to
something more must be done. He went | 5:58:50 | 5:58:55 | |
into the letter in detail, and
suggested it would be dynamite in | 5:58:55 | 5:58:59 | |
the hands of the claimant. Another
member from them was raised, in the | 5:58:59 | 5:59:08 | |
memo and it was a sum of event
stating that they should abandon the | 5:59:08 | 5:59:11 | |
product for the use of pregnancy
testing. He wanted to know what had | 5:59:11 | 5:59:16 | |
been done on their side in response
to this and there was no answer. I | 5:59:16 | 5:59:22 | |
go on, he thought that if this case
was tried to the end by a judge that | 5:59:22 | 5:59:26 | |
the chances were that the company
would be found in neglect of its | 5:59:26 | 5:59:28 | |
duty. He stated that it would seem
to be a 5-1 chance that if there was | 5:59:28 | 5:59:35 | |
a malformation of the child and the
mother to primodos while pregnant it | 5:59:35 | 5:59:38 | |
was the fault of the drug. Pages
seven, he said it was open to us | 5:59:38 | 5:59:50 | |
talking to Sharon, while
establishing a voluntary scheme | 5:59:50 | 5:59:54 | |
justifying a claim given proposition
without proof of liability simply | 5:59:54 | 5:59:57 | |
accepting worse possibility, and the
other was a take it to court. The | 5:59:57 | 6:00:04 | |
doctor from Shearing said that he
was hesitant in establishing a | 6:00:04 | 6:00:06 | |
scheme as the product is marked
worldwide and if we introduce it in | 6:00:06 | 6:00:11 | |
one country than it should be
introduced in other countries and | 6:00:11 | 6:00:13 | |
are trying to escape back in 1977
their moral responsibility Mr Deputy | 6:00:13 | 6:00:17 | |
Speaker. There are other prime
issues from this particular letter, | 6:00:17 | 6:00:25 | |
but because of time Mr Deputy
Speaker I shall go on to the other | 6:00:25 | 6:00:28 | |
minute, this is a minute of reported
meeting between a professor who was | 6:00:28 | 6:00:32 | |
a scientist turns Paris, and it took
place in Berlin on the 16th of | 6:00:32 | 6:00:38 | |
February and it was in 1978, and
this is admitted to the next day of | 6:00:38 | 6:00:43 | |
17th of February, and the meeting
was in Berlin to determine the | 6:00:43 | 6:00:50 | |
opinion of the validity and quality
of work carried out on primodos. | 6:00:50 | 6:00:52 | |
First question, that was posted, did
we as a company carry out all the | 6:00:52 | 6:01:00 | |
studies were supposed to? In his
opinion, we should have done a much | 6:01:00 | 6:01:04 | |
more. He expressed a view that after
discovering that a certain dose was | 6:01:04 | 6:01:10 | |
embryo lethal in rabbits and rats,
we should've carried out terror | 6:01:10 | 6:01:14 | |
tossed her studies in primates and
9068. Mr Deputy Speaker this is a | 6:01:14 | 6:01:19 | |
scandal. They knew. Their lawyers
were telling them they would be | 6:01:19 | 6:01:26 | |
liable if found guilty in a court
and would have to pay. Why does this | 6:01:26 | 6:01:30 | |
continue on? We have heard from all
honourable gentlemen and ladies | 6:01:30 | 6:01:36 | |
today, of the cases of constituents
up and down our country whose lives | 6:01:36 | 6:01:39 | |
have been blighted by this. Why
continue any more? I say to the | 6:01:39 | 6:01:45 | |
Minister, he has to stand up to the
official briefings he's getting. He | 6:01:45 | 6:01:50 | |
has to stand up to the nonsense of
that continued continued, continued | 6:01:50 | 6:01:54 | |
obfuscation of cover. Surely, he
must now get on the box later in the | 6:01:54 | 6:02:02 | |
debate to say he will support the
motion as well as and the Government | 6:02:02 | 6:02:06 | |
will set up a judicial inquiry as
soon as possible. Of treatment is | 6:02:06 | 6:02:12 | |
each. Thank you are much it is an
honour to be in this debate and | 6:02:12 | 6:02:18 | |
humbling and moving and I want to
commend all members who have been | 6:02:18 | 6:02:22 | |
contributing particular the right
honourable member from Hamill had | 6:02:22 | 6:02:24 | |
said, and Clark's Houthi paid
tribute to who drafted the motion, | 6:02:24 | 6:02:29 | |
also the honourable lady, she has
fought tooth and nail for the | 6:02:29 | 6:02:36 | |
victims of primodos. As has Merry
light, who to me is a modern-day | 6:02:36 | 6:02:39 | |
hero as far as I'm concerned, and
like other members, this is one of | 6:02:39 | 6:02:44 | |
the first case of the came to me was
when I was first elected, in 2015, | 6:02:44 | 6:02:47 | |
and my constituents who took
primodos in 1970 is legality along | 6:02:47 | 6:02:56 | |
with her daughter, she was born with
birth defects, cerebral palsy and | 6:02:56 | 6:03:01 | |
deafness and an underactive thyroid
and diagnosis 11. Her mobility is | 6:03:01 | 6:03:07 | |
getting worse, I want to briefly say
that some of the comments they have | 6:03:07 | 6:03:09 | |
given to me, are now describing what
life is the mic and she says our | 6:03:09 | 6:03:14 | |
lives have been turned upside down.
Are we going to see Justice for our | 6:03:14 | 6:03:19 | |
kids it is now because everyday we
see the difference and it is real | 6:03:19 | 6:03:24 | |
these people need to be taken care.
The option has been taken away from | 6:03:24 | 6:03:30 | |
them... Passed on, as she said I
don't see why there was a cover-up | 6:03:30 | 6:03:39 | |
in the first place they should cover
it -- fix it and we cannot see this | 6:03:39 | 6:03:44 | |
enough, we are in agreement it is
best, and that is what we have had a | 6:03:44 | 6:03:49 | |
close party agreement and the
strength of feeling I hope and I am | 6:03:49 | 6:03:51 | |
sure the Minister is very aware of,
it is also at best when we represent | 6:03:51 | 6:03:55 | |
to speak for our constituents as so
many Everwood here has done, and | 6:03:55 | 6:04:00 | |
another lady contacted me this week,
and she did not want to be named, | 6:04:00 | 6:04:04 | |
but she said I was wondering if I
could count on your support on | 6:04:04 | 6:04:07 | |
Thursday, my God -- daughter died at
birth after to the drug, she was | 6:04:07 | 6:04:10 | |
born with out the top of curb brain
is called this week would have been | 6:04:10 | 6:04:16 | |
her birthday and I would have been
yesterday. To me that his herring | 6:04:16 | 6:04:20 | |
and some of the deformities and
disabilities that honourable members | 6:04:20 | 6:04:22 | |
have spoken of, in some of the
comments I have to job that struck | 6:04:22 | 6:04:31 | |
me, the honourable member from North
Devon talked about constituents | 6:04:31 | 6:04:34 | |
being treated as guinea pigs and
that essentially what there is | 6:04:34 | 6:04:36 | |
treated as was human giving is
because it is not forget, this I was | 6:04:36 | 6:04:42 | |
on the market on regulated and
untested for five years. Before any | 6:04:42 | 6:04:47 | |
proper research was done into it and
I just think, you know, the routable | 6:04:47 | 6:04:51 | |
member spoke about the research and
information that came from Germany | 6:04:51 | 6:04:56 | |
and some of the vast number of
documents that were not looked at by | 6:04:56 | 6:05:01 | |
the expert working group, mambo
friend from Klesko cannot be here | 6:05:01 | 6:05:04 | |
today, but he spoke about his
constituent who has been affected | 6:05:04 | 6:05:08 | |
and wanted to share his experience,
rustles the youngest of four | 6:05:08 | 6:05:12 | |
children, the other two were all
born healthy, and his mother was | 6:05:12 | 6:05:16 | |
prescribed a similar drug. And was
left with significant disabilities. | 6:05:16 | 6:05:22 | |
Which has been devastating. Now,
since the release of the report, our | 6:05:22 | 6:05:31 | |
constituents have been for the let
down because I was there as I know | 6:05:31 | 6:05:35 | |
other members were as well, my right
honourable friend the member from | 6:05:35 | 6:05:38 | |
Bolton South East and I wear walked
out of the press conference when it | 6:05:38 | 6:05:43 | |
was taking place, and some of the
women who took primodos told me that | 6:05:43 | 6:05:46 | |
the launch of the report, that they
had been told they should not be | 6:05:46 | 6:05:50 | |
happy and take comfort knowing that
it was not taking primodos that | 6:05:50 | 6:05:53 | |
cause their babies to be born with
defects or malformations, how | 6:05:53 | 6:05:58 | |
offensive and insulting to say
something like that to victims who | 6:05:58 | 6:06:02 | |
have experienced so much trauma?
None of these women are happy or | 6:06:02 | 6:06:09 | |
comforted, and many of them were
absolutely shocked a particularly | 6:06:09 | 6:06:11 | |
that they didn't even want to watch
the sky documentary that we have | 6:06:11 | 6:06:16 | |
spoken about, which seems utterly
terrible because they said they did | 6:06:16 | 6:06:20 | |
not want to be prejudice. And as we
have found the report, was changed | 6:06:20 | 6:06:26 | |
between the draft and final report,
in terms of process Mr Deputy | 6:06:26 | 6:06:31 | |
Speaker, in terms of public money
that has been committed to this | 6:06:31 | 6:06:34 | |
process, I think it is quite
shocking but that was a situation | 6:06:34 | 6:06:38 | |
that has now been uncovered and I
hope the Government will reflect on | 6:06:38 | 6:06:41 | |
everything that has been asked on
the inquiry moving forward. But | 6:06:41 | 6:06:47 | |
also, just how a process can fall
down and become so bad, you know, we | 6:06:47 | 6:06:52 | |
know that merry lien, as we have
mentioned by the right honourable | 6:06:52 | 6:06:57 | |
lady, was held under the most
serious and difficult circumstances | 6:06:57 | 6:07:03 | |
by the legal document that she had
to sign. Marie line wanted to help | 6:07:03 | 6:07:10 | |
she wanted to make the process
better and she had the information | 6:07:10 | 6:07:13 | |
that she could have passed on, but
she wasn't able to do that. And | 6:07:13 | 6:07:19 | |
because of the document she had to
sign, she wasn't at the lily able to | 6:07:19 | 6:07:23 | |
do the job she wanted to do, and I
think that the Minister considers | 6:07:23 | 6:07:27 | |
that as well. I was deeply
concerning that what was described | 6:07:27 | 6:07:35 | |
as a side of the process by the
expert working group was not in | 6:07:35 | 6:07:39 | |
actual fact about science, because
many of the members here have told | 6:07:39 | 6:07:42 | |
us about the concerns that recently
when the doctor when she asked by | 6:07:42 | 6:07:50 | |
the drug not being up to reject
inclusion to the final report which | 6:07:50 | 6:07:53 | |
could reach Cusa, she said that the
commission on human medicines | 6:07:53 | 6:07:59 | |
buckling collectively saying it
should be more conclusive, when it | 6:07:59 | 6:08:01 | |
was put to her as a follow-up
question that we are not factors, | 6:08:01 | 6:08:04 | |
she said yes they are, but the point
is that these people do not sit | 6:08:04 | 6:08:10 | |
through the group and months ago to
the information, so how could they | 6:08:10 | 6:08:13 | |
possibly have backed information?
And in conclusion Mr Deputy Speaker | 6:08:13 | 6:08:20 | |
I know we are pressed for time, I
want to put my constituent once | 6:08:20 | 6:08:24 | |
again she says we need help now, and
not five or six years' time, she | 6:08:24 | 6:08:29 | |
doesn't want public inquiry she
wants him to compensate for what has | 6:08:29 | 6:08:32 | |
happened to her and her daughter and
she wants her daughter to have a | 6:08:32 | 6:08:38 | |
life and no one is prepared to give
her that when he trusted people | 6:08:38 | 6:08:41 | |
governing us, we look back all these
years and what is happening now, | 6:08:41 | 6:08:45 | |
there is no failing us, then the
drugs go out and should not go out | 6:08:45 | 6:08:48 | |
and they were negligent, the same
people are not around, so why can't | 6:08:48 | 6:08:52 | |
someone just do the right thing and
say that we were wrong? Thank you | 6:08:52 | 6:08:59 | |
Deputy Speaker, I want to stop by
and congratulate the honourable | 6:08:59 | 6:09:08 | |
member who brought this to us today,
and my honourable friend the Member | 6:09:08 | 6:09:12 | |
for Bolton South East, who has been
a strident campaigner for over six | 6:09:12 | 6:09:16 | |
years, and knew all about this
before it even reached my | 6:09:16 | 6:09:20 | |
consciousness, and for the accident
if rather too short speech, that she | 6:09:20 | 6:09:25 | |
was giving today. I would also like
to think other members for the | 6:09:25 | 6:09:31 | |
passionate and thoughtful
contributions and please forgive me | 6:09:31 | 6:09:34 | |
if due to time restraints I do not
name you all, but ultimately thank | 6:09:34 | 6:09:38 | |
you must go to Marie line, the chair
of the Association of children | 6:09:38 | 6:09:45 | |
damaged by hormone pregnancy test, I
am sure that I speak for all of us | 6:09:45 | 6:09:48 | |
in the House today when I say she is
the utmost respect and admiration of | 6:09:48 | 6:09:52 | |
members from across the House. And
my contribution this afternoon, I | 6:09:52 | 6:09:57 | |
wanted to touch upon the science
used to come to the reviews | 6:09:57 | 6:10:00 | |
conclusions. But also what is
missing and what should be in | 6:10:00 | 6:10:03 | |
considering what -- before any
conclusions were drawn. I will than | 6:10:03 | 6:10:08 | |
highlight why this is a matter of
injustice and why it is important | 6:10:08 | 6:10:11 | |
that answers are found. So we can
finally conclude this sad chapter. | 6:10:11 | 6:10:17 | |
The main sticking point of the
reviews conclusion is that the | 6:10:17 | 6:10:21 | |
expert working group found the signs
did not support a causal association | 6:10:21 | 6:10:26 | |
between HP keys during pregnancy and
adverse outcomes. My focus would be | 6:10:26 | 6:10:31 | |
on the science used in the
historical documentations we are | 6:10:31 | 6:10:34 | |
aware of, and which seems to have
not been considered some of which | 6:10:34 | 6:10:39 | |
were heard in the excellent speech
from honourable member for Kingston. | 6:10:39 | 6:10:42 | |
So I would not deviate into the
important argument around a possible | 6:10:42 | 6:10:47 | |
and causal, as this case was made
quite copperheads of you by other | 6:10:47 | 6:10:53 | |
honourable members including the
member from Hammel Hampstead. From | 6:10:53 | 6:10:58 | |
the onset, I must make your that I
am no scientist and I'm sure you're | 6:10:58 | 6:11:02 | |
all aware that, and my speech is not
a critique of the integrity and | 6:11:02 | 6:11:07 | |
expertise of those specialists
involved. However, the conclusions | 6:11:07 | 6:11:12 | |
arrived at in the report and the
conversations I have had with many | 6:11:12 | 6:11:15 | |
who have had -- been involved in the
campaign to show a need to be | 6:11:15 | 6:11:20 | |
critical of what has been concluded
by the expert working group. And | 6:11:20 | 6:11:26 | |
this is our duty as members of
Parliament, especially on such an | 6:11:26 | 6:11:30 | |
important matter for so many women
and their families, but also because | 6:11:30 | 6:11:33 | |
of the great deal of public funds
that were invested into this review | 6:11:33 | 6:11:38 | |
over the past few years. In the
report, consideration of the | 6:11:38 | 6:11:42 | |
scientific detail regarding --
regarding expertise it is argued | 6:11:42 | 6:11:46 | |
that there inconsistencies in the
conclusions drawn, from the evidence | 6:11:46 | 6:11:50 | |
used. Take for example the fact that
it the 15 studies that looked at | 6:11:50 | 6:11:54 | |
heart defects, 11 of them favoured a
link and five studies into limber | 6:11:54 | 6:11:59 | |
reduction, all found a link. Yet the
studies were deemed to show | 6:11:59 | 6:12:02 | |
insufficient evidence. Of the drug's
hard. Even information I requested | 6:12:02 | 6:12:10 | |
recently and just got this week from
the NHRA and the lead up to this | 6:12:10 | 6:12:14 | |
debate, they're at odds with the
conclusions of the review including | 6:12:14 | 6:12:18 | |
graphs which plot birth defects
against the availability of HBP, and | 6:12:18 | 6:12:23 | |
I think even to my untrained eye,
they do show a possible link. In one | 6:12:23 | 6:12:30 | |
graph, it is shown that birth
defects increased during the period | 6:12:30 | 6:12:35 | |
that HBP was on the market in
shortly afterwards, and then began | 6:12:35 | 6:12:40 | |
to decrease after they were taken
off the market. Further in the | 6:12:40 | 6:12:44 | |
briefing I received, the NHRA said
that for every 100 babies born in | 6:12:44 | 6:12:48 | |
the general population, around 2-4
are expected to have a birth defect | 6:12:48 | 6:12:53 | |
which would mean that a total of
14,000 babies a year would be | 6:12:53 | 6:12:57 | |
expected to be born with a birth
defect. Anyway, just generally. And | 6:12:57 | 6:13:03 | |
upon using the figures, they
concluded that over 1 million women | 6:13:03 | 6:13:09 | |
who took HBP, as many as 19,000
babies would be born with a birth | 6:13:09 | 6:13:12 | |
defect irrespective of additional
risks from HBP. Yet compare primodos | 6:13:12 | 6:13:20 | |
to thalidomide for but -- it says,
was a 600 children affected UK with | 6:13:20 | 6:13:28 | |
over 30 million prescriptions of
thalidomide, that is the percentage | 6:13:28 | 6:13:30 | |
and I got help with these numbers of
.002%, and primodos which sold 1.2 | 6:13:30 | 6:13:40 | |
million prescriptions, and has 800
children affected with a percentage | 6:13:40 | 6:13:44 | |
of .06%. This shows a much much
higher prevalence caused by primodos | 6:13:44 | 6:13:51 | |
compared to thalidomide. This shows
how little meaningful a comparison | 6:13:51 | 6:13:56 | |
of the HPT adverse reactions is
against today prevalence of birth | 6:13:56 | 6:14:02 | |
defects, and the general population,
and it is hardly a defence of | 6:14:02 | 6:14:06 | |
disproving a link. As I have said, I
am no scientific professional, but | 6:14:06 | 6:14:11 | |
the red flags that arise when
reading with the evidence says, it | 6:14:11 | 6:14:15 | |
was the conclusions were drawn from
them, are not once I believe only an | 6:14:15 | 6:14:20 | |
expert in this field would see. This
reflects the arguments raised by | 6:14:20 | 6:14:26 | |
Doctor Neil Leslie, that the report
does not provide definitive evidence | 6:14:26 | 6:14:32 | |
it was safe and others who said that
the only conclusion that can be John | 6:14:32 | 6:14:35 | |
is that a link cannot be ruled out.
This leads me onto my next point | 6:14:35 | 6:14:41 | |
which is to briefly touch upon the
historic perspective and cover-up of | 6:14:41 | 6:14:46 | |
the evidence. You have to use that
word that is only one we can use as | 6:14:46 | 6:14:50 | |
this is something that should have
been considered by the expert | 6:14:50 | 6:14:52 | |
working group. | 6:14:52 | 6:14:57 | |
One example was when the regulator
knew of a potential 5-1 risk the | 6:14:57 | 6:15:04 | |
drug could cause deformities but the
evidence was apparently later | 6:15:04 | 6:15:08 | |
destroyed. This was a running theme
and I haven't got time to go into it | 6:15:08 | 6:15:12 | |
but it is a running theme through
the chronology of this scandal, | 6:15:12 | 6:15:17 | |
where we see multiple examples of
suppressed information regarding the | 6:15:17 | 6:15:21 | |
adverse effects and delayed
notification of these effects to | 6:15:21 | 6:15:26 | |
medical professionals who administer
the drugs. It's also deeply | 6:15:26 | 6:15:30 | |
concerning this drug came onto the
market in 1958 with no studies on | 6:15:30 | 6:15:34 | |
its effects at all until 1963, so
that was five years before it even | 6:15:34 | 6:15:45 | |
underwent testing and was still
officially in circulation until | 6:15:45 | 6:15:53 | |
1975. But we are aware of cases that
exist of its use up until 1978. All | 6:15:53 | 6:15:59 | |
of the evidence uncovered should
have been considered as part of the | 6:15:59 | 6:16:03 | |
review and the question that arises
is why was it not? It is important | 6:16:03 | 6:16:10 | |
that those affected have the trust
and confidence of any review or | 6:16:10 | 6:16:15 | |
inquiry undertaken. In this instance
this has not been the case. The | 6:16:15 | 6:16:19 | |
victims feel this review has muddied
the waters even more than before it | 6:16:19 | 6:16:24 | |
was conducted and their views have
been ignored. I have been told many | 6:16:24 | 6:16:29 | |
harrowing stories, lots of which we
have heard today and how time and | 6:16:29 | 6:16:33 | |
again they have been ignored. These
women did not ask for hormonal | 6:16:33 | 6:16:38 | |
pregnancy tests and were not aware
of the effects on their unborn baby. | 6:16:38 | 6:16:42 | |
There was just given them, sometimes
out of the supply from a drawer in | 6:16:42 | 6:16:51 | |
the Doctor's desk. A great injustice
has been inflicted on these women | 6:16:51 | 6:16:54 | |
and it's up to this House to put
pressure on the Government of the | 6:16:54 | 6:16:58 | |
day here and now in a fully
cross-party nonpartisan way to make | 6:16:58 | 6:17:03 | |
things right. It is paramount that
the judgment public inquiry is | 6:17:03 | 6:17:09 | |
conducted, one which is independent
and can fully examine all of the | 6:17:09 | 6:17:15 | |
materials and documentation is
available and insist all information | 6:17:15 | 6:17:18 | |
is made public including that which
has been withheld so far. I hope | 6:17:18 | 6:17:22 | |
this debate helps us take us one
step further to achieving that. And | 6:17:22 | 6:17:31 | |
I quote the Member for Mid Norfolk,
when he stated in October 2014 and | 6:17:31 | 6:17:38 | |
instigated this review that the
review would "Shed light on the | 6:17:38 | 6:17:42 | |
issue and bring all of important
closure in an era of transparency. " | 6:17:42 | 6:17:55 | |
Let's make sure what he promised is
actually achieved. Thank you, and | 6:17:55 | 6:18:01 | |
let me start by saying this debate
has been carried out with I think | 6:18:01 | 6:18:06 | |
the tone and a style which does this
House and families who have | 6:18:06 | 6:18:12 | |
campaigned for so long great credit.
Let me congratulate my right | 6:18:12 | 6:18:22 | |
honourable friend and -- in securing
a further debate on this issue, a | 6:18:22 | 6:18:31 | |
tribute to the members of this House
who continue to campaigned | 6:18:31 | 6:18:35 | |
tirelessly on the half of those who
were given a hormonal pregnancy | 6:18:35 | 6:18:39 | |
test. I was struck by the lady for
Liverpool Riverside who mentioned | 6:18:39 | 6:18:44 | |
this was first raised in the House
in 1978 when I was for years old. I | 6:18:44 | 6:18:50 | |
hope we can achieve closure before
it's that long again. Let me be | 6:18:50 | 6:18:57 | |
crystal clear, the Government's
priority is and always will be, and | 6:18:57 | 6:19:05 | |
the Secretary of State has done more
than most, the safety of NHS | 6:19:05 | 6:19:08 | |
patients. I have listened to
patients, their families, | 6:19:08 | 6:19:13 | |
parliamentarians on the matter of
hormonal pregnancy tests over many | 6:19:13 | 6:19:18 | |
years and will continue to do this
over the coming weeks and months. | 6:19:18 | 6:19:22 | |
Time and again during today's debate
the Manchester -- member for | 6:19:22 | 6:19:31 | |
Manchester Withington said we have
heard about a lack of trust and | 6:19:31 | 6:19:35 | |
faith in this process, contrary to
the words from my honourable friend | 6:19:35 | 6:19:43 | |
from Mid Norfolk. That troubles me
sullenly be clear, we have ruled out | 6:19:43 | 6:19:47 | |
no options at this time. The report
of the group published on the 15th | 6:19:47 | 6:19:55 | |
of November I think represents the
culmination of rigorous piece of | 6:19:55 | 6:20:01 | |
scientific work by a group of
experts, all well respected in their | 6:20:01 | 6:20:05 | |
field, and it is the most exhaustive
investigation of the issue | 6:20:05 | 6:20:10 | |
undertaken to date. However it is
clear to me that many members and | 6:20:10 | 6:20:15 | |
families they speak for have
concerns about this issue. We are as | 6:20:15 | 6:20:19 | |
I said committed to listening to
that and acting upon that. While we | 6:20:19 | 6:20:24 | |
differ on many points, there are
surely a couple of things on which | 6:20:24 | 6:20:27 | |
we can agree at the outset. The
first is the safety of mothers and | 6:20:27 | 6:20:32 | |
unborn children is to be paramount.
The second is standards in science | 6:20:32 | 6:20:38 | |
and regulation have changed beyond
all recognition in the last 50 | 6:20:38 | 6:20:41 | |
years. My honourable friend and the
lady who speaks the Liverpool | 6:20:41 | 6:20:54 | |
Riverside mentioned about drugs
being handed out through the desk | 6:20:54 | 6:20:58 | |
drawer of GPs and it says that on
page seven at the start of the | 6:20:58 | 6:21:07 | |
report and the footnote says today
there are strict requirements of the | 6:21:07 | 6:21:12 | |
supply of free samples of medicines.
That's why I say medicine science | 6:21:12 | 6:21:21 | |
and regulation and prescribing has
changed hugely in the last 50 years. | 6:21:21 | 6:21:25 | |
It is imperative to me we continue
to seek improvement in this area, | 6:21:25 | 6:21:31 | |
that's why we have tasked the HRA
with implementation. These are | 6:21:31 | 6:21:41 | |
valuable initiatives that should
permanently benefit the millions of | 6:21:41 | 6:21:47 | |
women who use medicines in
pregnancy. My right honourable | 6:21:47 | 6:21:55 | |
friend from Hemel Hempstead
mentioned Mr Debrett. I apologise if | 6:21:55 | 6:22:03 | |
he feels his name has been used
inappropriately. He was invited as | 6:22:03 | 6:22:08 | |
an advocate for families and made a
strong contribution throughout so | 6:22:08 | 6:22:13 | |
let me be clear we thank him for his
contribution. His campaign with wide | 6:22:13 | 6:22:19 | |
respect across our country and the
world under that will continue to be | 6:22:19 | 6:22:22 | |
the case, I know. The right
honourable gentleman who introduced | 6:22:22 | 6:22:27 | |
the debate spoke about the name of
the inquiry. I'm told the group were | 6:22:27 | 6:22:34 | |
reminded from the start they have
not been set up as a statutory | 6:22:34 | 6:22:38 | |
inquiry as an expert group of
commission on human medicines. It | 6:22:38 | 6:22:46 | |
was important to be clear on this at
the start as formal inquiries have a | 6:22:46 | 6:22:51 | |
different structure and statutory
powers. I don't think there was an | 6:22:51 | 6:22:55 | |
inconsistency there but we can
continue that debate. Almost all | 6:22:55 | 6:23:00 | |
speakers have spoken about the terms
of reference set out, the causal | 6:23:00 | 6:23:05 | |
versus the possible. The terms of
reference set out the scope of the | 6:23:05 | 6:23:09 | |
review and I don't believe they
changed. It was endorsed in December | 6:23:09 | 6:23:15 | |
2014, a few weeks after the last
debate and confirmed by the Member | 6:23:15 | 6:23:19 | |
for Mid Norfolk. In the same letter
the all-party group was informed, | 6:23:19 | 6:23:25 | |
and I quote, it is important to
review the scientific evidence to | 6:23:25 | 6:23:29 | |
establish if there is any causal
association between the use of HPTs | 6:23:29 | 6:23:35 | |
and subsequent birth defects in the
child. It is explicit and integral | 6:23:35 | 6:23:42 | |
to see whether the medicine is
actually responsible for causing the | 6:23:42 | 6:23:46 | |
harm rather than simply being
associated with it. The Member for | 6:23:46 | 6:23:51 | |
Manchester Withington and others
mention changes to the expert group | 6:23:51 | 6:23:55 | |
report. I know many members are
concerned about differences in the | 6:23:55 | 6:23:59 | |
draft and final report especially
the removal of the sentence which | 6:23:59 | 6:24:03 | |
said limitations of the methodology
at the time and relative scarcity of | 6:24:03 | 6:24:07 | |
the evidence means it's not possible
to reach a definitive conclusion. | 6:24:07 | 6:24:11 | |
This sentence was followed
immediately by the group's overall | 6:24:11 | 6:24:15 | |
finding that the available
scientific evidence does not support | 6:24:15 | 6:24:21 | |
a causal association between the use
of HPTs such as Primodos and adverse | 6:24:21 | 6:24:25 | |
outcomes. The ChM rightly considered
the two sentences together to be | 6:24:25 | 6:24:30 | |
misleading and advise the report be
revised. The scientific conclusion | 6:24:30 | 6:24:37 | |
is set out in the report. The Member
for Manchester Withington and others | 6:24:37 | 6:24:45 | |
spoke about historic actions.
Ministers always being clear, Mr | 6:24:45 | 6:24:51 | |
Deputy Speaker, the issues of
historic process were outside the | 6:24:51 | 6:24:55 | |
scope of this review because their
first needed to be clarity on | 6:24:55 | 6:24:58 | |
whether there might be a link
between HPTs and birth defects. This | 6:24:58 | 6:25:03 | |
point was made by the much mentioned
member for Mid Norfolk when he said | 6:25:03 | 6:25:10 | |
the review will include a chronology
of events but the expert working | 6:25:10 | 6:25:15 | |
group will not be asked for its
advice on systemic or regulatory | 6:25:15 | 6:25:19 | |
failures. Other members have said
that should be different, and as I | 6:25:19 | 6:25:29 | |
have said I am listening, but the
reporter that my desk inherited this | 6:25:29 | 6:25:33 | |
summer hard that is its guidance and
that's what I inherited. -- had | 6:25:33 | 6:25:42 | |
that. It wasn't set up to look at
most historical actions and whether | 6:25:42 | 6:25:48 | |
it should or not is a matter for
debate. The lady for maker field | 6:25:48 | 6:25:53 | |
mentioned the transparency issue and
the gagging order. I said this | 6:25:53 | 6:26:00 | |
during the urgent question, I can
assure the House that being asked to | 6:26:00 | 6:26:06 | |
sign a confidentiality undertaking,
Mrs Lynam who is here today, was not | 6:26:06 | 6:26:11 | |
in anyway treated differently to
other panel members. This is | 6:26:11 | 6:26:15 | |
standard procedure so discussions
can be held freely without running | 6:26:15 | 6:26:19 | |
commentary on God forbid the media.
Despite being an observer throughout | 6:26:19 | 6:26:23 | |
the view, Mrs Lynam was invited to
speak after every agenda item. The | 6:26:23 | 6:26:31 | |
lady for Bolton South East mentioned
evidence from Doctor Dean and the | 6:26:31 | 6:26:36 | |
Royal College of General
practitioners that was ignored, the | 6:26:36 | 6:26:39 | |
interaction between Doctor Dean and
the RCGP are fully described in the | 6:26:39 | 6:26:42 | |
annex to the report and I will come
onto that in a second before I | 6:26:42 | 6:26:48 | |
close. My honourable friend the
Member for Eastleigh and the Member | 6:26:48 | 6:26:53 | |
for Livingston mentioned the way the
interaction of the family. I was | 6:26:53 | 6:26:59 | |
clear last time I was at the
dispatch box on the subject that | 6:26:59 | 6:27:02 | |
families were not treated with the
respect and dignity I would expect | 6:27:02 | 6:27:06 | |
as the Minister for a body I am
responsible for. I have made it very | 6:27:06 | 6:27:10 | |
clear to them and asked them to
report back to me as to how they | 6:27:10 | 6:27:13 | |
will do it better next time, and I
look forward to seeing that. I | 6:27:13 | 6:27:20 | |
mentioned about the transparency
issue. Minutes to the meetings and | 6:27:20 | 6:27:24 | |
declarations of interest were
published last week. Annexes to the | 6:27:24 | 6:27:29 | |
report and all studies by Shearing
have been published today. I'm going | 6:27:29 | 6:27:45 | |
to close there and give the sponsor
of the debate chance to close. I | 6:27:45 | 6:27:50 | |
thank members for their
contributions, nothing is off the | 6:27:50 | 6:27:53 | |
table and I am listening. And I
thank everybody for giving up | 6:27:53 | 6:27:58 | |
Thursday in their constituencies to
be here. I have been praised | 6:27:58 | 6:28:03 | |
extensively for starting this debate
but could have -- not have done it | 6:28:03 | 6:28:10 | |
without the all Parliamentary group.
Can I say on behalf of my | 6:28:10 | 6:28:13 | |
constituents whose lives were
changed, blighted, completely | 6:28:13 | 6:28:17 | |
wrecked by Primodos, as we've heard
across the House today, I have heard | 6:28:17 | 6:28:24 | |
the Minister say nothing is ruled
out and I'm willing to listen, and | 6:28:24 | 6:28:28 | |
I'm pleased because he will have to
listen an awful lot. If this | 6:28:28 | 6:28:32 | |
document is still on his desk and
being used as a way to go forward, | 6:28:32 | 6:28:36 | |
I'm afraid that is an insult to the
victims. It was described to me in a | 6:28:36 | 6:28:41 | |
way which I cannot repeat in the
House today, but a better way of | 6:28:41 | 6:28:47 | |
describing it was crap. It was
fundamentally flawed and doesn't do | 6:28:47 | 6:28:52 | |
what it says on the tin when the
Minister asked for it to be done. | 6:28:52 | 6:28:55 | |
The department can move on and talk
and move on. There has to be an | 6:28:55 | 6:29:01 | |
independent public inquiry and if
that inquiry decides it needs | 6:29:01 | 6:29:04 | |
further evidence, it needs to have
the financed to do that, and they | 6:29:04 | 6:29:09 | |
will be evidence coming forward in
the next couple of days, because the | 6:29:09 | 6:29:11 | |
victims are the most important
people in what we have been | 6:29:11 | 6:29:17 | |
discussing today. If we forget that,
we forget why we are here, why the | 6:29:17 | 6:29:22 | |
NHS has the greatest reputation in
the world, Shearing's is a great | 6:29:22 | 6:29:29 | |
brand but their reputation has been
damaged. In order, the debate stands | 6:29:29 | 6:29:34 | |
adjourned. | 6:29:34 | 6:29:46 | |
I'm ready when you are. Thank you
very much Deputy Speaker for | 6:29:46 | 6:29:55 | |
granting me this time and imported
adjournment. I know this government | 6:29:55 | 6:30:01 | |
despite although warm words and up
but did you do not care for the NHS, | 6:30:01 | 6:30:05 | |
the very principle and assets of a
simple it is not sit well with the | 6:30:05 | 6:30:10 | |
ideologically driven privatisation
agenda. We should judge the | 6:30:10 | 6:30:15 | |
Government cut them into NHS by
their actions. The shambolic | 6:30:15 | 6:30:18 | |
top-down regularization that began
in 2012, has been followed by | 6:30:18 | 6:30:25 | |
increasing competition increased
privatisation, and now the | 6:30:25 | 6:30:30 | |
introduction of sustainability and
transformation plans and accountable | 6:30:30 | 6:30:33 | |
K organisations, that are heralding
the end of our NHS. Mr Deputy | 6:30:33 | 6:30:39 | |
Speaker, that does not tie what
works,. The Government starts NHS | 6:30:39 | 6:30:44 | |
and refuses to it have collaborative
structures to, but a long-term | 6:30:44 | 6:30:51 | |
sustainable plan for properly
financing our NHS. The event will | 6:30:51 | 6:30:57 | |
force areas in England to come up
with plans for deficiencies to | 6:30:57 | 6:31:01 | |
compensate for the governments own
neglectful incompetence. As a local | 6:31:01 | 6:31:07 | |
areas grapple with these cuts,
services are inevitably transferred | 6:31:07 | 6:31:10 | |
from one hospital to another. The
received in hospital cannot cope | 6:31:10 | 6:31:18 | |
they buckle under strain and close
and private health care takes over. | 6:31:18 | 6:31:24 | |
In the South Shields, the
sustainability and transformation | 6:31:24 | 6:31:26 | |
plans have been brought in under the
guise of a path to excellence. And | 6:31:26 | 6:31:31 | |
we been placed into an arbitrary
created boundary footprint area. By | 6:31:31 | 6:31:40 | |
2021, the health or social care
system and a footprint area, is | 6:31:40 | 6:31:45 | |
projected to be £960 million short
of the funds it needs to balance its | 6:31:45 | 6:31:50 | |
books, while maintaining the same
level of care for patients. Make no | 6:31:50 | 6:31:55 | |
mistake, these plans are about cuts.
They are nothing to do with | 6:31:55 | 6:32:00 | |
transforming our NHS for the better,
the NHS has been set and an | 6:32:00 | 6:32:04 | |
impossible task by the Government
and the endgame is to see it in | 6:32:04 | 6:32:07 | |
private hands. Over a year ago, stop
the tie-dye hospital trust | 6:32:07 | 6:32:14 | |
management team merged. And work
began in earnest formulating the | 6:32:14 | 6:32:19 | |
Government led to plans by local
clinical commission groups. Would | 6:32:19 | 6:32:23 | |
look after all of the health
services in our area, along with the | 6:32:23 | 6:32:26 | |
hospital trust. The plans are
scrutinised by a joint scrutiny | 6:32:26 | 6:32:32 | |
committee of South Tyneside and a
Sunderland Council as well as the | 6:32:32 | 6:32:37 | |
clinical commission group of being
accountable to the respective local | 6:32:37 | 6:32:40 | |
authorities health and well-being
boards. The plans are officially | 6:32:40 | 6:32:45 | |
supposed to be targeted and
improving health care. By reality, | 6:32:45 | 6:32:49 | |
people in Shields and right across
England are discovering that these | 6:32:49 | 6:32:53 | |
plants are actually about the
biggest programme ever from any | 6:32:53 | 6:32:57 | |
government to shut down the NHS and
for once and for all. Alongside | 6:32:57 | 6:33:02 | |
supposedly improving health and
care, Health Secretary is endorsing | 6:33:02 | 6:33:07 | |
plans for cuts of up to 5 billion in
the NHS, this is a man who wrote | 6:33:07 | 6:33:12 | |
about how to achieve full
privatisation of the NHS who got the | 6:33:12 | 6:33:15 | |
Chancellor and the last budget to
give to put £6 billion to help embed | 6:33:15 | 6:33:20 | |
the sustainability and
transformation plans. In other | 6:33:20 | 6:33:24 | |
words, using government and taxpayer
money to close down a local | 6:33:24 | 6:33:27 | |
hospitals. I have remained firm in
my view, despite many people | 6:33:27 | 6:33:33 | |
denouncing me and other campaigners,
and scaremongering and from the day | 6:33:33 | 6:33:38 | |
the two teams merged, the plough was
to downgrade South the tie-dye | 6:33:38 | 6:33:42 | |
hospital and move all of our
services to Sunderland. I take no | 6:33:42 | 6:33:48 | |
pleasure here being right, when the
first days of the consultation was | 6:33:48 | 6:33:52 | |
launched, we were advised that the
preferred option of the clinical | 6:33:52 | 6:33:57 | |
teams was to move them to
Sunderland. Not only does have a | 6:33:57 | 6:34:02 | |
preferred option fly in the face of
them, it confirmed for auto of us | 6:34:02 | 6:34:07 | |
what we expected, when in October
last year without any public | 6:34:07 | 6:34:10 | |
consultation at all, our unit was
closed and moved to Sunderland with | 6:34:10 | 6:34:15 | |
a promise that this was a temporary
measure due to staff challenges. | 6:34:15 | 6:34:20 | |
There currently no options on the
table for that unit to come back | 6:34:20 | 6:34:23 | |
South Tyneside. In relation to
maternity and a women's analogical | 6:34:23 | 6:34:30 | |
services and children and young
people urgent, and emergency | 6:34:30 | 6:34:35 | |
paediatrics, all of the options
presented between drastic reduction | 6:34:35 | 6:34:40 | |
in provision in particular over a
two services for South Tyneside. | 6:34:40 | 6:34:45 | |
Yet, and October, our accident and
emergency inclusive of paediatrics, | 6:34:45 | 6:34:49 | |
was found to be the second-best in
the country, and one of the few | 6:34:49 | 6:34:54 | |
hospitals which has achieved the
four-hour waiting time target. I | 6:34:54 | 6:34:59 | |
have been consistent in rejecting
this consultation. I refuse to | 6:34:59 | 6:35:03 | |
accept that a consultation
predicated on a massive cut agenda | 6:35:03 | 6:35:08 | |
against a backdrop of additional
cuts to social care, and other | 6:35:08 | 6:35:12 | |
services that will do anything at
talk to improve the health and care | 6:35:12 | 6:35:15 | |
that people and care that people in
South Tyneside received. In fact, it | 6:35:15 | 6:35:19 | |
would do quite the opposite. But I
am not alone in this view. The trust | 6:35:19 | 6:35:25 | |
and the clinical commissioning group
are stating the proposals before us, | 6:35:25 | 6:35:29 | |
where formulated by and are
supported by clinicians and staff at | 6:35:29 | 6:35:32 | |
our hospital. Yet, many of these
clinicians and staff have contacted | 6:35:32 | 6:35:37 | |
me and provided me with evidence to
show that they have in fact been | 6:35:37 | 6:35:41 | |
actively blocked out of formulating
his proposals. How on earth can the | 6:35:41 | 6:35:46 | |
public be expected to trust a
consultation that raises such a | 6:35:46 | 6:35:51 | |
serious questions around
transparency and due process and has | 6:35:51 | 6:35:55 | |
lacked integrity from the outset? I
have been trying to get my local | 6:35:55 | 6:36:02 | |
authority to revert this whole
shambolic consultation to the | 6:36:02 | 6:36:05 | |
Secretary of State so the smoke
screen can be looked at and | 6:36:05 | 6:36:08 | |
conductor properly with due process.
So far, to the abject disappointment | 6:36:08 | 6:36:14 | |
of the my constituents, this has not
happened. The constituents of also | 6:36:14 | 6:36:18 | |
raised with me, their concerns over
potential conflicts of interest. Our | 6:36:18 | 6:36:26 | |
Council leader has appeared
nonexecutive director of the trust | 6:36:26 | 6:36:29 | |
and chairs of the health and
well-being board, the chair of this | 6:36:29 | 6:36:32 | |
ECG is the vice chair of the health
and well-being board in a practise | 6:36:32 | 6:36:36 | |
in GP. On the 30th of November, a
press release was issued advising | 6:36:36 | 6:36:42 | |
that the special care baby unit was
closing with immediate effect. A | 6:36:42 | 6:36:49 | |
closure that coincidentally sits
neatly with all of the proposed | 6:36:49 | 6:36:52 | |
options are put forward from the CCT
and the trust. The reason given was | 6:36:52 | 6:36:58 | |
staffing issues. The safety and
well-being of babies and parents | 6:36:58 | 6:37:01 | |
should of course be a priority, but
he that followed indicate that this | 6:37:01 | 6:37:06 | |
is yet another cynical development
of the managed decline of South | 6:37:06 | 6:37:10 | |
Tyneside hospital. On the 3rd of
December, after the local media had | 6:37:10 | 6:37:15 | |
been advised staff from the
maternity unit were invited to a | 6:37:15 | 6:37:19 | |
meeting to be told that from 8am the
following morning the maternity unit | 6:37:19 | 6:37:23 | |
will be closing due to staffing
issues. This was after the trust has | 6:37:23 | 6:37:29 | |
discussed matters with regional
groups and not local was and not | 6:37:29 | 6:37:31 | |
staff. We have now restate states --
states where normal babies are being | 6:37:31 | 6:37:38 | |
born at a South Tyneside, yet the
maternity unit has a full couple met | 6:37:38 | 6:37:43 | |
the staff present as it has been
wedded with fully SAP operational. | 6:37:43 | 6:37:48 | |
The staff present at the trust with
a working system to keep the unit | 6:37:48 | 6:37:52 | |
delivering so there is no reason to
why the closure is continuing. Right | 6:37:52 | 6:37:57 | |
now, these trained professional and
dedicated midwives is that | 6:37:57 | 6:38:00 | |
delivering babies, are doing admin,
transferring mums to neighbouring | 6:38:00 | 6:38:04 | |
hospitals. I have already been
advised of expectant mothers to be | 6:38:04 | 6:38:11 | |
having to find on average £40 for
each round-trip journey to other | 6:38:11 | 6:38:15 | |
hospitals in the region. When they
thought they were due to deliver. | 6:38:15 | 6:38:19 | |
One woman was sent home after being
told she was not the labour by a | 6:38:19 | 6:38:24 | |
neighbouring hospital, once home and
I very much in labour, she ended up | 6:38:24 | 6:38:28 | |
having a home birth as she simply
could not afford another taxi when | 6:38:28 | 6:38:31 | |
the ambulance waiting times were too
long. The situation is completely | 6:38:31 | 6:38:37 | |
dangerous and unsustainable for my
constituents. And it takes away a | 6:38:37 | 6:38:41 | |
woman's right on how to choose where
she has birth. From day one of this | 6:38:41 | 6:38:47 | |
process, there is one version of
events from the trust and clinical | 6:38:47 | 6:38:50 | |
commissioning group, but then their
evidence and facts from the | 6:38:50 | 6:38:53 | |
clinicians and other staff at the
hospital to tell otherwise. | 6:38:53 | 6:38:57 | |
Clinicians and staff who are
dedicating hard work and | 6:38:57 | 6:39:00 | |
professionalism are being denigrated
and more out produced under revealed | 6:39:00 | 6:39:05 | |
threat that if they speak with her
-- meet the risk losing jobs. They | 6:39:05 | 6:39:11 | |
remained multitude of unanswered
questions, questions that are | 6:39:11 | 6:39:14 | |
critical to the whole process and
have been repeatedly asked. What | 6:39:14 | 6:39:20 | |
capacity do Sunderland hospital
habit to take the extra patience and | 6:39:20 | 6:39:23 | |
from South Tyneside? What is going
to happen to the staff at South | 6:39:23 | 6:39:27 | |
Tyneside? What transport arrangement
will be put in place bearing in mind | 6:39:27 | 6:39:32 | |
we are one of the lowest areas of
car ownership in the entire country? | 6:39:32 | 6:39:38 | |
Does the Northeast Ambulance Service
have the additional capacity to | 6:39:38 | 6:39:42 | |
respond to the increased emergency
demand created by these options? And | 6:39:42 | 6:39:47 | |
what are the proposals for the
imminent next faces of the | 6:39:47 | 6:39:50 | |
consultation? Because Mr Deputy
Speaker, this is only phase one of a | 6:39:50 | 6:39:56 | |
consultation that has another to
basis to go. We cannot continue in a | 6:39:56 | 6:40:01 | |
situation where those tasks with
providing the very best health care | 6:40:01 | 6:40:05 | |
scenario for my constituents, are
acting out of that and not promoting | 6:40:05 | 6:40:11 | |
good faith equitable health care. We
cannot continue in a situation where | 6:40:11 | 6:40:16 | |
Joyce has been removed from my
constituents. Where their health | 6:40:16 | 6:40:20 | |
needs in fact their lives are deemed
secondary to that of others in the | 6:40:20 | 6:40:23 | |
region. I am asking here today that
the Minister support the taking of | 6:40:23 | 6:40:29 | |
serious steps, and that NHS England
a step in and investigate and if | 6:40:29 | 6:40:34 | |
necessary remove the clinical
commissioning groups powers. And | 6:40:34 | 6:40:39 | |
that NHS improvement to
investigative action against trust. | 6:40:39 | 6:40:45 | |
Mr Deputy Speaker, things have
become very nefarious and chills. | 6:40:45 | 6:40:48 | |
Peace all -- people have
misunderstood me representing Mike | 6:40:48 | 6:40:52 | |
assiduous and relaying their use and
length accept as personal attack. I | 6:40:52 | 6:40:56 | |
would like to remind those who have
tried to silence me and stated | 6:40:56 | 6:41:00 | |
publicly that I am a liar and I put
myself forward for public office not | 6:41:00 | 6:41:05 | |
to cause and not to bow those to
power but to represent the people as | 6:41:05 | 6:41:12 | |
shields no matter how uncomfortable
for some that may be. Because an | 6:41:12 | 6:41:16 | |
amount of bytes or bullying will
stop me from doing the job that I | 6:41:16 | 6:41:20 | |
was elected and entrusted to do. I
want to and by paying tribute to the | 6:41:20 | 6:41:26 | |
amazing staff and our hospital, and
those in South Tyneside who have | 6:41:26 | 6:41:31 | |
wholeheartedly join the fight to
save our hospital. But in | 6:41:31 | 6:41:37 | |
particular, Roger and Gemma who have
worked tirelessly eating the safe to | 6:41:37 | 6:41:40 | |
say the campaign, and Art
crowdfunding to raise money for | 6:41:40 | 6:41:46 | |
potential judicial review. Please,
if anyone is listening, donate and | 6:41:46 | 6:41:52 | |
help us, because this process does
not begin and end with our hospital. | 6:41:52 | 6:41:56 | |
This government is coming for our
entire NHS. Thank you very much | 6:41:56 | 6:42:05 | |
Deputy Speaker, I would like to
start by congratulating the | 6:42:05 | 6:42:07 | |
honourable lady on securing this
debate. On the topic of the future | 6:42:07 | 6:42:15 | |
of South Tyneside hospital, and I
pay tribute to her emotion in which | 6:42:15 | 6:42:24 | |
she showed standing up for her
constituents. Although I have to say | 6:42:24 | 6:42:28 | |
I was disappointed by the tone that
she adopted particularly at the | 6:42:28 | 6:42:31 | |
start of her remarks, and frankly
conspiracy that she is alleging | 6:42:31 | 6:42:38 | |
exists. To endeavour to use the case
of South Tyneside to progress with a | 6:42:38 | 6:42:48 | |
scaremongering, which will
undoubtedly unlined local residents | 6:42:48 | 6:42:50 | |
in her area by trying to paint this
as some sort of plot towards the | 6:42:50 | 6:42:58 | |
privatisation of the health service
which there is not a shred of | 6:42:58 | 6:43:01 | |
evidence at all. And I think that
rather undermined the force of her | 6:43:01 | 6:43:07 | |
quite proper consent for her
constituents and I'm sorry that she | 6:43:07 | 6:43:11 | |
chose to characterize it in that
way. But I do welcome her support | 6:43:11 | 6:43:16 | |
for the staff in her hospital, and I
joined her in congratulating them | 6:43:16 | 6:43:25 | |
for the work that are doing, because
despite significant precious, South | 6:43:25 | 6:43:31 | |
Tyneside NHS Foundation Trust, is
performing very well for the vast | 6:43:31 | 6:43:36 | |
majority of patients under their
care. And she pointed out their | 6:43:36 | 6:43:43 | |
performance and a and E, which is
above the one of the pew trusts and | 6:43:43 | 6:43:46 | |
the country to be performing at the
above for our waking time, but that | 6:43:46 | 6:43:53 | |
is not the only area where the trust
is performing well. There are also | 6:43:53 | 6:43:57 | |
one of the few trusts meeting all of
the cancer targets across the | 6:43:57 | 6:44:02 | |
country, the eight targets, and
meeting the referral to treatment | 6:44:02 | 6:44:07 | |
waiting times which again, is
unusual. At the moment. And meeting | 6:44:07 | 6:44:14 | |
diagnostic targets so it is one of
the best-performing trusts in the | 6:44:14 | 6:44:18 | |
country. And for that, she and I are
on the | 6:44:18 | 6:44:24 | |
, it is the case that the trust and
its neighbouring trust, the City | 6:44:24 | 6:44:32 | |
Hospital Sunderland and NHS
Foundation Trust formed an alliance | 6:44:32 | 6:44:34 | |
with recently of the South Tyneside
and Sunderland health care group. It | 6:44:34 | 6:44:39 | |
is for this reason that the group is
looking at reconfiguration of | 6:44:39 | 6:44:44 | |
services across the two trusts to
remove unnecessary duplication and | 6:44:44 | 6:44:50 | |
to improve the sustainability of the
services to ensure that the local | 6:44:50 | 6:44:58 | |
population's health care needs are
well looked after. Across the range | 6:44:58 | 6:45:01 | |
of activities. It is quick to make a
bit of progress and then I will give | 6:45:01 | 6:45:05 | |
way. Ultimately, as if she knows,
any services changes outside of | 6:45:05 | 6:45:12 | |
Tyneside tenement at a South
Tyneside Hospital will be for local | 6:45:12 | 6:45:15 | |
health care authorities. All
proposed changes should be based on | 6:45:15 | 6:45:18 | |
clear evidence that they would
provide better outcomes for | 6:45:18 | 6:45:23 | |
patients. They should meet the four
tested for service change the vision | 6:45:23 | 6:45:27 | |
of support from GB commissioners, be
based on clinical evidence, | 6:45:27 | 6:45:31 | |
demonstrate public and patient
engagement and consider patient | 6:45:31 | 6:45:33 | |
choice. And, in addition, NHS
England have introduced this year a | 6:45:33 | 6:45:39 | |
test on the future use of beds,
which requires commissioners to | 6:45:39 | 6:45:44 | |
assure NHS England that any proposed
reduction is sustainable over the | 6:45:44 | 6:45:48 | |
longer-term and that keep risks,
such as a staff levels, have | 6:45:48 | 6:45:51 | |
addressed. I think that Minister for
giving way. A few moments ago, he | 6:45:51 | 6:45:58 | |
commented on how both hospitals are
working together to create safe | 6:45:58 | 6:46:03 | |
health care for both populations,
however, how does it become the | 6:46:03 | 6:46:07 | |
maternity unit and a special
carriage units with hardly no notice | 6:46:07 | 6:46:10 | |
et al created that environment?
Surely they are feeling at a task | 6:46:10 | 6:46:13 | |
they have been handed. -- failing as
of the task. I will explain to the | 6:46:13 | 6:46:20 | |
honourable Lady right now the
persisted a fact about why was an | 6:46:20 | 6:46:26 | |
emergency shutdown on that facility
and I think that the | 6:46:26 | 6:46:30 | |
characterisation that she has isn't
quite representative of what | 6:46:30 | 6:46:34 | |
actually happened and I wanted to go
into some detail to reinsure -- to | 6:46:34 | 6:46:39 | |
try and wish root -- to reassure her
her constituents that they're some | 6:46:39 | 6:46:43 | |
closer, hopefully temporary and
closer. The hospital suspended... | 6:46:43 | 6:46:54 | |
High risk of birth due to stopping
pressure. A number of urgency to | 6:46:54 | 6:46:58 | |
protocols were picked in place to
complement the very slow number of | 6:46:58 | 6:47:05 | |
high-risk deliveries of the weekend
of the second and 3rd of December. | 6:47:05 | 6:47:07 | |
Since the 4th of December, all
maternity services have been | 6:47:07 | 6:47:11 | |
temporarily suspended in South
Tyneside Hospital on patient safety | 6:47:11 | 6:47:15 | |
grounds. And in taking this
decision, be trusted to do so on | 6:47:15 | 6:47:19 | |
it's own initiative. It sought
advice from the northern and | 6:47:19 | 6:47:25 | |
neonatal network and the heads of...
Network for the northeast of | 6:47:25 | 6:47:28 | |
England. The unanimous clinical
view, with all the evidence | 6:47:28 | 6:47:33 | |
available to them at that time, was
that the press should be temporarily | 6:47:33 | 6:47:37 | |
suspended in the interest of the
city of mothers and babies. -- in | 6:47:37 | 6:47:44 | |
the interests of mothers and babies.
The hospital has staff were been | 6:47:44 | 6:47:48 | |
affected to a bin has to report for
duty as normal. The staff are | 6:47:48 | 6:47:51 | |
working with the trust to help the
women affected to assure safe | 6:47:51 | 6:47:58 | |
alternative arrangements are made.
The trust has been in close contact | 6:47:58 | 6:48:02 | |
with other neighbouring units and
had overwhelming support from NHS | 6:48:02 | 6:48:06 | |
partners across the system. Women
have been choosing to deliver in | 6:48:06 | 6:48:11 | |
Sunderland, Gateshead and in
Newcastle, with the number of women | 6:48:11 | 6:48:14 | |
opted for a home birth. The trust is
working closely to ensure there is | 6:48:14 | 6:48:20 | |
an individual plan for each patient
and that there is clear | 6:48:20 | 6:48:22 | |
communication between the health
care professionals involved within | 6:48:22 | 6:48:26 | |
their care. The trust aims to reopen
special baby carriage units for low | 6:48:26 | 6:48:31 | |
risk of births on a safe staffing
level has been established and I | 6:48:31 | 6:48:35 | |
would like to dwell now, for a few
moments, on the specific stopping | 6:48:35 | 6:48:40 | |
challenges that have precipitated
this action. The challenging facing | 6:48:40 | 6:48:47 | |
South Tyneside NHS Foundation Trust,
in terms of safely staffing the | 6:48:47 | 6:48:51 | |
special care baby unit or something
in which the trust has been | 6:48:51 | 6:48:54 | |
contending with for many years. This
hasn't just crept up on that. When | 6:48:54 | 6:49:00 | |
the... Visited in 2015, and raided
the trust's includes ad court... | 6:49:00 | 6:49:12 | |
Sensitiveness and 15, there have
been a relentless efforts on behalf | 6:49:12 | 6:49:15 | |
of the trust or by the trust to
mitigate these issues. Regular quirk | 6:49:15 | 6:49:22 | |
Richmond has taken place for
permanent vacancies in special care | 6:49:22 | 6:49:27 | |
unit and paediatric emergency care
over the past two years, with the | 6:49:27 | 6:49:30 | |
latest round taking place only this
month. Contrary to the honourable | 6:49:30 | 6:49:37 | |
lady's obligations of some
long-standing conspiracy to compel | 6:49:37 | 6:49:43 | |
the unit to close, I wanted to give
you the facts as I understand that | 6:49:43 | 6:49:47 | |
in relation to that unit. In recent
months, chronic staff sickness has | 6:49:47 | 6:49:53 | |
reduced the six full-time equivalent
specialist neonatal workforce in the | 6:49:53 | 6:49:59 | |
special care units into just four
full-time staff. This has resulted | 6:49:59 | 6:50:06 | |
in an unsustainable situation with
the remaining nurses working at many | 6:50:06 | 6:50:09 | |
extra hours each week in order to
ensure there was a safe staffing on | 6:50:09 | 6:50:15 | |
the unit and one of the four
remaining nurses has that become | 6:50:15 | 6:50:20 | |
ill, exacerbated by the work
pressures. That has led to | 6:50:20 | 6:50:25 | |
unsustainable staffing levels to
keep the unit open. It has not been | 6:50:25 | 6:50:30 | |
possible for the trust, however hard
it has tried, over the last two and | 6:50:30 | 6:50:33 | |
half years, to Phil B Rhoda and it
has not been -- to fill the | 6:50:33 | 6:50:39 | |
rotation. Given the specialised
skills required by neonatal nurses | 6:50:39 | 6:50:45 | |
in the special care baby units. This
decision, although difficult, was | 6:50:45 | 6:50:51 | |
driven by the very clear clinical
advice that to put first and | 6:50:51 | 6:50:54 | |
foremost, the safety of others and
babies, but also the health and | 6:50:54 | 6:50:58 | |
well-being of hospital staff to whom
the trust also owes a duty of care. | 6:50:58 | 6:51:04 | |
Now, the honourable lady referred to
the consultation that has taken | 6:51:04 | 6:51:09 | |
place in recent months over the
past. I think the Minister very much | 6:51:09 | 6:51:15 | |
for giving way again. I am really
disappointed. I could see he has the | 6:51:15 | 6:51:20 | |
official wines from the trust, but
did he not listen to what I said? It | 6:51:20 | 6:51:25 | |
was a regional, not the local groups
that made this decision. The unit is | 6:51:25 | 6:51:30 | |
now at its full staff complement to
that it has been historically. In | 6:51:30 | 6:51:34 | |
short, there is no staffing the
problem there by now. Midwives are | 6:51:34 | 6:51:37 | |
sitting to doing admin work when
they could be delivering babies. I | 6:51:37 | 6:51:42 | |
was referring to the special care
baby unit. Where, my understanding, | 6:51:42 | 6:51:48 | |
the neonatal unit is at staffing
levels where I just described. If | 6:51:48 | 6:51:54 | |
she has other information, I will
happily go back to the trusted | 6:51:54 | 6:51:58 | |
tomorrow and ask them whether they
have managed to fill those slots | 6:51:58 | 6:52:02 | |
because there is no intent to keep
the suspension of the maternity | 6:52:02 | 6:52:10 | |
unit, for more normal births,
suspended for any longer than is | 6:52:10 | 6:52:15 | |
necessary. Id. Just going to touch
him one of the other areas that she | 6:52:15 | 6:52:18 | |
didn't mention specifically, but the
stroke services because a similar | 6:52:18 | 6:52:26 | |
thing has occurred in terms of
stroke. I would put that into | 6:52:26 | 6:52:28 | |
context for her to help her
understand why that decision was | 6:52:28 | 6:52:32 | |
taken. Since December last year,
2016, any patient requiring acute | 6:52:32 | 6:52:40 | |
care for a stroke has been taken to
Sunderland and this decision was | 6:52:40 | 6:52:45 | |
taken to ensure patient safety
because South Tyneside also had a | 6:52:45 | 6:52:50 | |
significant staffing challenge in
its stroke unit. In fact, it had | 6:52:50 | 6:52:55 | |
only one part time position,
single-handedly, to assess and treat | 6:52:55 | 6:53:01 | |
incoming stroke patients. The stroke
unit faced significant pressures in | 6:53:01 | 6:53:06 | |
maintaining a sufficiently staffed
nursing the rotation to support that | 6:53:06 | 6:53:11 | |
clinician to maintain the safety
required for stroke patients. The | 6:53:11 | 6:53:15 | |
benefits of centralising a high
acuity stroke care have been shown | 6:53:15 | 6:53:21 | |
in Manchester and in London and in
other parts of the country where | 6:53:21 | 6:53:25 | |
reduced mortality in a more
efficient use of resources in a | 6:53:25 | 6:53:29 | |
better care for patients. Most other
parts of the country have either | 6:53:29 | 6:53:32 | |
implemented similar changes or have
plans to do so. Centralising stroke | 6:53:32 | 6:53:37 | |
care to a smaller number of larger
units provides opportunities to | 6:53:37 | 6:53:41 | |
ensure that there are always the
specialist nurses and doctors | 6:53:41 | 6:53:45 | |
available to manage patients at all
times and provide access to imaging | 6:53:45 | 6:53:52 | |
and other investigatory facilities
immediately as they are required. | 6:53:52 | 6:53:56 | |
So, to give an illustration to what
that means for patients who are at | 6:53:56 | 6:53:59 | |
the heart of this, across the NHS in
England, 84% of stroke patients, | 6:53:59 | 6:54:06 | |
patients now spend the majority of
the hospital stay in a specialist | 6:54:06 | 6:54:09 | |
stroke units compared to 60% in
2010. This has led it to excellent | 6:54:09 | 6:54:16 | |
progress in the treatment of stroke
over recent years. Over 92% of | 6:54:16 | 6:54:20 | |
stroke patients across England now
receive a brain scan which in -- | 6:54:20 | 6:54:25 | |
within 12 hours of arriving at
hospital and almost 50% are screened | 6:54:25 | 6:54:30 | |
within one hour. This is a huge
increment on 2010 when 70% of | 6:54:30 | 6:54:34 | |
patients waited up to 24 hours for a
scan. The concentration of stroke | 6:54:34 | 6:54:43 | |
units a specialist has helped save
lives. The workforce challenges | 6:54:43 | 6:54:46 | |
experienced by South Tyneside are
being proactively addressed in the | 6:54:46 | 6:54:50 | |
long-term do the path to excellence
programme that she referred to. This | 6:54:50 | 6:54:55 | |
is a five-year transformation
programme with health care services | 6:54:55 | 6:54:58 | |
in South Tyneside and the
Sunderland. Localise responsive to | 6:54:58 | 6:55:00 | |
the North... Of which was so
critical. The public conversation | 6:55:00 | 6:55:07 | |
for the passage of prop Chris --
passage progress programme ran... | 6:55:07 | 6:55:14 | |
The areas of service under the
consultation were maternity in | 6:55:14 | 6:55:18 | |
women's health care services,
including the special baby care | 6:55:18 | 6:55:20 | |
unit. Stroke care services and...
Before the CCD to make the decision, | 6:55:20 | 6:55:29 | |
they will consider all the feedback
gathered during the consultation | 6:55:29 | 6:55:33 | |
from all stakeholders, including
herself and other members of | 6:55:33 | 6:55:36 | |
Parliament. closet... I was strongly
encourage her to participate in | 6:55:36 | 6:55:44 | |
that. The CCGs governing body will
be held. For the two CCGs to make | 6:55:44 | 6:55:55 | |
their decision. They refer to the
same South Tyneside Hospital group | 6:55:55 | 6:55:59 | |
and am aware this is active in
campaigning against any | 6:55:59 | 6:56:03 | |
reconfiguration of health care
services between the two hospitals. | 6:56:03 | 6:56:05 | |
I hope I have helped to clarify to
the honourable lady that no | 6:56:05 | 6:56:10 | |
decisions will be made on
reconfiguration matters until the | 6:56:10 | 6:56:13 | |
responses to the path to excellence
has been thoroughly analysed. I | 6:56:13 | 6:56:19 | |
think the Minister for giving away,
but his analysis of the save the | 6:56:19 | 6:56:25 | |
South Tyneside Hospital campaign is
incorrect. We want safe and decent | 6:56:25 | 6:56:29 | |
health care for people in South
Tyneside. That is what we are | 6:56:29 | 6:56:33 | |
camping for. Or equitable safe
health care. Indeed, I'm sure that | 6:56:33 | 6:56:37 | |
is the objective and that's also the
objective of the trusted to ensure | 6:56:37 | 6:56:42 | |
that there is sustainable, high
quality services available to the of | 6:56:42 | 6:56:46 | |
both areas served by both hospitals.
The trusted now faces a challenging | 6:56:46 | 6:56:54 | |
task in ensuring that two hospitals
trusts do, to this process, the path | 6:56:54 | 6:57:03 | |
to excellence, remove any dedication
which is unnecessary between the two | 6:57:03 | 6:57:07 | |
sides. And in proof sustainability
as a set. It is important that the | 6:57:07 | 6:57:13 | |
trust work well together and with
the local community and with her | 6:57:13 | 6:57:17 | |
commissioning groups to ensure that
any plans that they have a community | 6:57:17 | 6:57:20 | |
-- are communicated clearly to local
populations. The honourable lady | 6:57:20 | 6:57:27 | |
says it is not happening, but... It
is important to engage the | 6:57:27 | 6:57:33 | |
communities centre that will be
watching the debate and I'm sure | 6:57:33 | 6:57:35 | |
there will be taking note of the
Commons about she is making it am | 6:57:35 | 6:57:40 | |
making and there should be public
engagement and hopefully that will | 6:57:40 | 6:57:45 | |
continue up until the decision of
the CCGs in February. I will | 6:57:45 | 6:57:50 | |
conclude by saying, Mr Deputy
Speaker, that it is incumbent on all | 6:57:50 | 6:57:54 | |
of us who represent our local
communities to get engaged, as she | 6:57:54 | 6:57:58 | |
is doing with her campaign group.
But to get engaged with the people | 6:57:58 | 6:58:03 | |
who are responsible for making these
decisions who are the local NHS in | 6:58:03 | 6:58:07 | |
her area. She indicates she is
engaged with them and I am pleased | 6:58:07 | 6:58:11 | |
to hear it and I would encourage her
to encourage all other MPs to get | 6:58:11 | 6:58:15 | |
engaged in a constructive way, to
try and find the best solution for | 6:58:15 | 6:58:20 | |
the local residents and one in which
abuts safety at the top of the list. | 6:58:20 | 6:58:26 | |
This is adjourned. The ayes have it.
Order, order. | 6:58:26 | 6:58:33 |