10/01/2018 House of Commons


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10/01/2018

Live coverage of the day's proceedings in the House of Commons including Opposition day debates tabled by Labour on the NHS 'winter crisis' and rail franchising.


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Some points of order. It wouldn't be

a full day without a point of order

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from Angus Brendan McNeill.

I

congratulate you on your

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pronunciation. By the opposition and

the panellists talked of the NHS

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seemingly unaware there are four NHS

services in the UK. I am looking for

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your guidance what can be done to

assist knowledge and accuracy in

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senior parliamentarians in the

Chamber. Or is this just the English

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Parliament?

If I didn't know the

honourable gentleman as well as I

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do, I would think that he was being

mischievous. But I can't imagine

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that he would behave in that way.

But I am on the one hand flattered

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of the exhortation by the honourable

gentleman in his point of order. On

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the other hand, at least a tad

intimidated for the idea that the

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chair can be expected to insist

amongst any member, or any group of

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members, upon knowledge and

accuracy. Is I think and unrealistic

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ambition on the part of the

honourable gentleman. That is not a

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matter for the chair, members take

responsibility for their statements

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but insofar as the honourable

gentleman seeking to draw attention

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to what she regards as the

sensuality of the Scottish health

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service, adding he has accomplished

his objective, or even the plurality

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of services which she witters from

his position, I think he has a

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conflict is objective.

I seek advice

on how best to raise the issue of

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Cancer treatment in Oxford with the

Minister responsible. This seriously

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terminally ill patients face delays

and cuts to services at the asked

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them. Cancer doesn't wait.

First of

all, the matter was at least raised

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at Prime Minister's Questions today

with considerable force, albeit not

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by the honourable lady on this

occasion. Secondly, I know the

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honourable lady won't take offence,

I was looking mean a thing --

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meaningfully at and keen to call her

on a question, admittedly not of the

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cancer services minister, but of the

Prime Minister. But the honourable

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lady in a uncharacteristic display

of reticence did not respond to my

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exhortation is our to to her feet at

that time. Thirdly, what I would say

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to the honourable lady is

notwithstanding health questions a

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considerable distance away, business

questions are tomorrow and if the

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honourable lady wishes to meet from

her seat with alacrity to put a

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question on this matter to the

leader of the House, she can.

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Finally, if she applies for an

adjournment debate, she might be

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successful.

I hope you might be able

to advise me on how I can ascertain

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Government policy and action on an

urgent matter which affects my

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constituents in Norwich. Hundreds of

potential job losses could take

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place with the closure of the

Commons mustard factory and Britvic

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factories in my constituency. I have

asked ministers to come to meet

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workers at the highly profitable

factory. I understand he is still in

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his place at the Department but a

number of new ministers and junior

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ministers whose responsibilities we

do not know. -- Colman's muster. --

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mastered.

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I thank him for his advance notice.

I say that's with great seriousness,

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the importance to the honourable

gentleman and his constituents. On

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the specific matter, which of the

new material team has responsibility

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for that matter, it is constantly --

customary to publish from time to

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time a list ministerial

responsibilities and it would be

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helpful to both sides of the House

perhaps, is the responsibilities

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within departments could be publicly

clarified as soon as possible.

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Meanwhile, his concern is on the

record and I am sure it will be

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noted on the Treasury bench.

Secondly, I say on the back of my

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own experience as a member before I

became Speaker, my advice to him in

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seeking a visit is, processed, man.

Processed. Make -- persist. Keep

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going, keep asking, keep requesting,

put the matter in the mind of

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ministers. By making a nuisance of

myself as a backbencher, more often

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than not I got at least a

significant share of what I was

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looking for for my constituents. A

point of order.

This point of order

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is in pursuance to the point of

order and made last night which you

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gave good, clear suggestions on. I

now understand the Secretary of

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State has issued a statement but not

an official statement and wondering

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whether or not given the words

spoken on the 6th of December you

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have heard from the Secretary of

State as to whether or not he

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intends to come back to rectify the

record?

The short answer is I have

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received no indication of any

intention on the part of the

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Minister to make a statement on this

matter. Reference to the matter was

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I think made by the Chancellor of

the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister

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for the Cabinet Office during his

Question Time session. I think there

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is an indication to the honourable

gentleman as to how the Government

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intends to proceed on this matter.

That may not satisfy him but that is

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what we have got at present.

Moreover, it will not be beyond the

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sagacity of the honourable gentleman

and some of his colleagues similarly

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exercised about this matter to

highlight their concerns during the

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report stage of the EU Withdrawal

Bill. I look forward with dated

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breath, eager anticipation and beads

of sweat on my brow to hearing the

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honourable gentleman expresses

concern for the simple reason that I

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intend to chair the bulk of those

sessions on each of the two days,

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the 16th and 17th of January. Much

excitement awaits me. There is a

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further point of order.

In the

answer to my question on the half of

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my homeless constituents who is also

a foster carer, the banister

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appeared to suggest there was some

doubt she would be de-registered as

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a foster carer because of her poor

homeless accommodation. Can confirm

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she has been de-registered for that

reason and how would I put that on

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the record?

The honourable lady has

achieved our objective, it will

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appear in the official report and

the honourable lady wishes to send a

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personalised and sang copied to the

premise, it is open to her to do so.

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If there are no further points of

order, we come to the ten minute

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rule motion, John...

I beg to move

that leave the given for me to bring

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in the planning agent of change Bill

to require specified planning

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control is in relation to

developments likely to be affected

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by existing sources and connected

purposes. This Bill is the science

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to protect existing music venues

from college from crippling cost

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arising from residential property

developments in their area are

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particularly nice. This has been

campaigned on for some time. Over

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one third of music venues are closed

over the last decade estimated.

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Members of Parliament have examples

of much loved venues in their area

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closed are under threat. That is why

there has been cross-party

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widespread support. Many turned out

at this morning 's photocall. This

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was also raised on the 3rd of

November on the adjournment debate

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by the Member for St Helens North.

Sir Paul McCartney and some of the

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music greats have said without the

grassroots public cousins, clubs and

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music venues my career would be very

different. If we do not support

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music at this level,... Grassroots

public Houses. Redundant, commercial

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or industrial premises are converted

to residential or indeed are knocked

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down and rebuilt or as empty sites

are developed. Of course, much of

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this is very welcome. It is part of

the regeneration of our inner

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cities, restoring their historic

vibrancy and also creating

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much-needed homes. However, it can

sometimes lead to the loss of what

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makes parts of those areas

attractive in the first place.

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Especially to younger residents.

Incidentally, that doesn't just

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apply to music venues, but to the

wider fabric of inner-city life and

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there are important questions as to

how we preserve the vibrancy and

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diversity of city life more

generally across our main

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conurbations. However, my short Bill

is more modest and focused as a

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mission, adopting the principle of

agent of change into planning law.

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What that basically means is that

when buildings are converted to

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residential use or a new development

put up the onus is on the developer

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is not the venue to ensure the new

talent are protected from factors,

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particularly nice, which could be

held to affect their general and

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energy and enjoyment.

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Bristol is a city where I am

informed has more office to

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residential convergence than

anywhere else outside London. Two

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other sponsors the members for

Cardiff West and Central have been

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supporting the save woman be street

campaign along with the members

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Cardiff North and South and Cardiff

South and Penarth. That has led

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directly to the adoption of the

agent of change principle across

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Wales, welcome adoption by the Welsh

Labour government. Another sponsor

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met the member for Somerton and

Frome is concerned to protect a

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value -- a much valued venue in

Frome. The Mayor of London with

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London grassroots music venue rescue

plan will be introducing an agent of

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change rule into the next London

plan. As I mentioned the Welsh

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Government announced a summer move

and it's already under consideration

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by the Scottish Parliament. My bill

will provide the legislative

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reinforcement. What my bill is

aiming to do is to give greater

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clarity and powerful local councils

and the planning inspector to

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incorporate this principle into

planning decisions. So why was I so

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receptive to this idea and why is

there such strong public support?

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Because it matters. It matters for

those who enjoy the entertainment

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than to whom it opens up new

horizons. And obviously for the

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staff and owners of the venues. But

it matters a lot more than that and

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not just for the nearby late-night

kebab shops. For a start it's impact

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on musicians. This is why the bill

is being supported by the musicians

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union. Less venues means less work

and opportunity to develop talent.

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But also to move from amateur to

part-time to full-time professional

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to national or even international

stardom. Just talking to dated Billy

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Graham mentioned to me that three

times he tried to move from other

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ordinary job to being a full-time

musician and it was the existence of

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the clubs and pubs and venues that

enabled him to actually finally make

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it onto the national stage. We are

in danger of taking away the ladder

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that has served individual musicians

and the music industry so well for

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so long. And what an industry. Not

only domestic sales rising again, we

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are second to the US in

international sales. It's a huge

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boost to Britain's standing around

the world and our soft power not to

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mission millions in other seal sales

last year. Let alone it being a

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significant part of our tourism.

There is a real concern that the

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industry is now depending on a great

past with the loss of grey hair

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around. I am in favour of good

representation of good here but also

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I support refreshing the industry

with new talent. There is a danger

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of mining rather than farming our

musical heritage and it's also

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narrowing a route of opportunity for

your working-class youngsters. As a

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West Woodlands MP I am proud to

represent part of the area which

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gave birth to heavy metal however, I

recognise how damaging the loss of

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venues can be to smaller towns.

Retaining youngsters and slowing the

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just to the city. All those factors

are important. Another factor makes

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it imperative. Either from

Parliament or the government given

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the wide level of cross-party

support from ex-ministers as well as

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government members I hope the

government will adopt this measure

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and helped to push it through. That

factor is Brexit. As Brexit is

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happening and we face an uncertain

to check its vitally important that

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Britain is made more efficient and

effective across-the-board and we

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maximise every possible advantage

that Britain has. One of these is

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clearly our cultural and

entertainment offer but only London

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but in our other great centres

around the country. Many of which

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are like Birmingham and Manchester

attracting increasing foreign

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investment although Birmingham is

the best venue for Channel 4. The

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quality of life is also significant.

It's partly about personal safety,

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environmental quality, but it's also

about the answer to the basic

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questions would I want to live

there? That is a question not only

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the companies but also for the staff

they are seeking to attract.

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Especially the highly mobile

technically skilled and talented

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international and multinational

workforce not least in our huge

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creative sector. But culture and

living environment is important to

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them. That means art galleries,

theatres, football clubs, other

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sporting environments but it also

mean music venues and the street

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scene. It poses a question to those

who are being enticed to move abroad

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after Brexit, would you and your

family and your employees prefer to

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live in London, Birmingham

Manchester or in Frankfurt? This

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measure I hope will provide some

small but useful assistance provided

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industry and I commend this bill to

the House.

The question is that the

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Right Honourable member had leave to

bring in the Bill. As many of that

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opinion say I. To the contrary now.

The eyes have it. Who will prepare

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and bring in the Bill?

Kevin

Brennan, said Greg Knight, Pete

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Wishart, Joe Stephens, Esther Edward

Vaizey, Kerry McCarthy, David

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Warburton, Conor McGinn. Mr Nigel

Evans, and myself.

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Mr John speller.

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Planning agent of change Bill.

Second reading. Friday the 19th of

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January. A very good day, my

birthday.

We now come to the first

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opposition day motion on the NHS

winter crisis. To move the motion I

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called the Shadow Secretary of State

for Health, Jonathan Ashworth.

I beg

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to move the motion in the name of my

right honourable friend the Leader

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of the Opposition and myself. I

begin by paying tribute to the

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extraordinary efforts of our NHS and

social care staff for all of their

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work this Christmas and New Year.

They continue to do all of us in

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this House proud. It's almost a year

since the House debated the National

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Health Service following the

Christmas and New Year break. A year

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ago we debated winter pressures with

a backdrop that had been

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characterised by the Red Cross as a

humanitarian crisis. Here we are a

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year later again. Debating a winter

crisis worse than last year. A

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winter crisis described as even

worse than last year. He goes on, in

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some cases I've heard of 50 patients

in an emergency Department waiting

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for a bed. We have to try and manage

them as best we can. In cold dusty

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corridors while dealing with new

emergency patients. His words. His

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words backed up by the realities on

the ground revealed in the weekly

0:20:460:20:50

reports of what is happening. Since

the start of this winter over 75,000

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patients waited for over 30 minutes

in the back of a numberless. Over --

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almost 17,000 patients waited over

60 minutes and this is despite NHS

0:20:590:21:02

improvements directed last year that

emergency departments should accept

0:21:020:21:08

handover of patients within 15

minutes of a numberless arriving. I

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will give way.

Does he recognise the

pressure across the system. In Arrow

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Park on the Wirral they put 48 extra

beds available for the winter crisis

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and in the event they had to make 40

extra beds available by cancelling

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all elective surgeries. Does he

believe this is the way to plan for

0:21:420:21:49

the winter and does he believe that

the Department of Health made robust

0:21:490:21:55

and appropriate plans?

She speaks

eloquently about the pressures on

0:21:550:22:01

her local hospital but she will also

be aware of how foolhardy it would

0:22:010:22:06

have been to close the walk-in

centre on the Wirral which was

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proposed closure because there

wasn't enough staff at Daryl Clark

0:22:100:22:14

hospital. Because of her campaign

that eastern walk-in centre has been

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saved because of Labour MPs working

in the constituency.

King's College

0:22:230:22:31

Hospital in my constituency, one of

the largest in the country, has been

0:22:310:22:37

taken into financial special

measures. With my right honourable

0:22:370:22:40

friend agree with me that the

failure of Kings is a canary in the

0:22:400:22:43

for the NHS and must be a wake up

call for the government on the level

0:22:430:22:48

of resources the NHS staff need and

Willie join me and calling on behalf

0:22:480:22:54

of Secretary to ensure Kings emerges

from financial special measures with

0:22:540:22:58

the additional funding it needs to

deliver safe and effective care for

0:22:580:23:03

patients?

She has been a passionate

defender of Kings, speaking out in

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this House on numerous occasions.

Before Christmas we saw the

0:23:100:23:14

resignation of the chair and he

spoke out about the real pressures

0:23:140:23:18

facing our NHS. I will give way.

It

was under a Labour government that

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the walk-in centre closed but I

don't seek to blame the Labour

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government because it was a local

decision that was made by local

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practitioners. Would he at least not

agree in the spirit of trying to

0:23:370:23:44

build some sort of sensible debate

about our NHS instead of always wet

0:23:440:23:48

amazing it that this government has

put in an extra £437 million

0:23:480:23:57

specifically for the winter period.

Would he not at least give the

0:23:570:24:02

government credit for that planning

we have never seen before?

The

0:24:020:24:06

honourable lady was former Health

Minister and she will know that in

0:24:060:24:13

our local hospitals 771 patients

have waited longer than four hours

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on trolleys not able to get a bed.

She talks about winter many but we

0:24:180:24:23

were calling for winter emergency

money back at the general election

0:24:230:24:26

and repeated those causing

September. That didn't many did not

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come through until the November

budget and hospital trusts were not

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told about the allocations before

Christmas. That is no way to prefer

0:24:340:24:38

if the winter. When she was Health

Minister she would have been saying

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that that officials in her

department.

But the point is, for

0:24:420:24:49

the first time the government has

done everything it possibly could

0:24:490:24:54

because no government can predict

what the weather may be like or

0:24:540:24:59

indeed the uptake of flu

vaccinations and it is wrong to

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suggest that this is the fault of

the government in England when this

0:25:040:25:09

has been a problem across the whole

of the UK including Scotland and

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Labour run Wales.

We have had eight

years of sustained underfunding in

0:25:120:25:20

our NHS because of decisions by this

government that she was a member of

0:25:200:25:23

until very recently.

I refer to the

comments made to the health select

0:25:230:25:31

committee by Jim Mackie back at the

start of October three months ago.

0:25:310:25:36

He told the select committee it's

true we are running tighter than any

0:25:360:25:41

of us would want and we have not had

the impact from the social care

0:25:410:25:44

investment this year we would have

hoped for so it will be difficult

0:25:440:25:48

and very tight over winter. This

government knew what was coming and

0:25:480:25:51

yet they have let the whole country

down.

0:25:510:26:02

Pointing out the response of Tory

members saying this was not

0:26:040:26:07

predictable. This was not

preventable. This winter crisis was

0:26:070:26:10

predictable.

0:26:100:26:20

And patients were left in ambulances

for more than 30 minutes outside

0:26:200:26:25

Kingsmill hospital between the week

of the 25th and 31st of December,

0:26:250:26:30

one and 40% of those arriving by

ambulance that week. That's my

0:26:300:26:36

honourable friend agreed those

patients and families deserve any

0:26:360:26:38

apology and a promise that will

never happen again. I have absolute

0:26:380:26:43

praise for the staff at Kingsmill.

That is remote first daughter was

0:26:430:26:47

born, in fact but the way patients

have had to wait for ambulances is

0:26:470:26:55

entirely unacceptable. Let me make

progress. I will try to take as many

0:26:550:27:01

interventions as possible, a half

day debate and I know a lot of

0:27:010:27:04

people want to get in and speak. We

have the stories of ambulances, 150

0:27:040:27:12

times they have been diverted away

from gridlocked A & E departments.

0:27:120:27:21

Occupancy levels running at unsafe

levels. Over one third of England's

0:27:210:27:26

children's care units 100% fall on

Christmas Eve with not a single

0:27:260:27:32

spare bed. Reports of whole

children's wards being used for

0:27:320:27:35

adults. We do not know the full

scale of the crisis because this

0:27:350:27:40

year NHS England is not reporting

which hospital trusts have reported

0:27:400:27:46

the so-called bubble alerts. I hope

he will explain why the Opal data is

0:27:460:27:56

not published as it has been done in

recent years. Every one of these

0:27:560:28:02

statistics is a real human story.

Stories of elderly fragile patients

0:28:020:28:07

treated in the backs of ambulances

in freezing January. Patients

0:28:070:28:14

language and -- languishing in

hospitals on trolleys. Such is the

0:28:140:28:23

80-year-old epileptic man waiting to

be treated. His daughter, Jacki

0:28:230:28:27

Weaver, said it was absolutely

horrendous. You couldn't get past

0:28:270:28:30

all the trolleys.

67 people sitting

on trolleys. We ran out of corridor

0:28:300:28:43

space. 200 people medically fit for

discharge with nowhere to go. The

0:28:430:28:47

pressure on my constituents and

those of my honourable friend in

0:28:470:28:53

North Staffordshire was appalling

but also the pressure on the staff

0:28:530:28:55

who had to cope with looking after

these patients, my consecutive --

0:28:550:29:01

constituents deserve better, we need

money for social care and needed at

0:29:010:29:05

last year. -- Opel data.

That is a

moving contribution. The people

0:29:050:29:16

whose relatives are waiting so long

in corridors, when they hear the

0:29:160:29:20

Prime Minister Singh, nothing is

perfect, I think the truth is we do

0:29:200:29:23

not want perfection, just a bit of

dignity and humanity. -- when they

0:29:230:29:28

hear the Prime Minister saying.

I

went out on a shift with a ambulance

0:29:280:29:37

Crewe, they said they were awaiting

two hours or more other side of A &

0:29:370:29:41

E at Lincoln. One paramedic was

going in, in resuscitation, he was

0:29:410:29:50

clerking patients. What does the

honourable gentleman think of that?

0:29:500:29:57

What we will do?

A powerful and raw

contribution to our proceedings

0:29:570:30:03

because she was working over the

Christmas holiday at the front line

0:30:030:30:07

in Lincoln and I pay tribute to her

and her colleagues in Lincoln. I

0:30:070:30:13

hope the finest reflects upon the

contribution and response to it.

The

0:30:130:30:24

stories are indeed heartbreaking. No

one wants to see that for their

0:30:240:30:28

constituents are a relic --

relatives. Will the Minister

0:30:280:30:33

recognising welcome the investments

made into the elderly and frail

0:30:330:30:38

unit, I have seen that in my

hospital and it has made a massive

0:30:380:30:43

difference. Too early to tell it has

solved the problems and we want to

0:30:430:30:47

do more of course but that is making

a real difference on the ground. As

0:30:470:30:51

well as the additional Government

funding of nearly £4 million that

0:30:510:30:54

was put in in time. That is also a

hospital that was in special

0:30:540:31:00

measures, the readership are turning

it around. Does he welcome the

0:31:000:31:04

practice helping our constituents?

Welcome examples of good practice

0:31:040:31:10

but I also share her frustration

that she has put on her own website

0:31:100:31:14

about the money taking so long to

reach the fund line. The money has

0:31:140:31:17

been approved, the frustration has

been the time the trust taking to

0:31:170:31:23

gain access to the money. The money

should have been announced sooner

0:31:230:31:26

for our NHS. I will try to make

progress. What about the story of

0:31:260:31:34

the 87-year-old who suffers from

dementia? She was at Worcestershire

0:31:340:31:41

Royal. Forced to wait ten hours in

hospital to see a Dr, had to be tied

0:31:410:31:47

into a wheelchair with a scarf after

her bed was taken away. At Southmead

0:31:470:31:53

Hospital in Bristol, we learnt they

have capacity of 104%. A leaked memo

0:31:530:32:03

yesterday revealed acute medical

units physicians have been on their

0:32:030:32:06

knees with workload pressures. At

the biggest risk remains patients in

0:32:060:32:11

corridors in the emergency

department with no allocated Dr, no

0:32:110:32:15

allocated bed, no treatment.

In my

local hospital in Barnsley, despite

0:32:150:32:26

the incredible effort of the staff

there, general and acute bed

0:32:260:32:30

occupancy reach 100% on the 31st of

December. Does he agree that these

0:32:300:32:35

safety targets are simply not being

met and that is not good enough?

Bed

0:32:350:32:40

occupancy levels at this level are

unsafe. And the Secretary of State

0:32:400:32:44

is committed to patient safety. He

has made it a signature issue apace

0:32:440:32:49

and yet is presiding over a health

service were bed can see --

0:32:490:32:57

occupancy is over 85%. We have heard

about the pressures in South

0:32:570:33:01

Yorkshire. What about West

Yorkshire? In a hospital ward in

0:33:010:33:05

Pinderfields where people were left

lying on the floor. A witness said

0:33:050:33:09

the man who was lying on the floor

at the bottom of my husband's that

0:33:090:33:14

was being sick, asking for a trolley

to lie on but there was not want to

0:33:140:33:17

give him. Dismissed in the House on

Monday by the then Minister is

0:33:170:33:23

saying there was enough chairs for

him to sit on.

I'm sure he will join

0:33:230:33:30

me in thanking the staff for their

gargantuan effort this winter had

0:33:300:33:34

over the festive period. Just this

week I spoke to a nurse at that very

0:33:340:33:37

same hospital who advised me they

had had to clear out the cleaning

0:33:370:33:41

cover to put a bed in there for a

patient to actually be in their

0:33:410:33:45

receiving an infusion. Does he share

my horror on what on earth are NHS

0:33:450:33:50

is becoming under this Government?

Beds in a broom cupboard. The Tory

0:33:500:33:57

NHS. Isn't it a disgrace? We have

had a long wait studs let me make

0:33:570:34:03

progress.

I am grateful. In relation

to the incident at Pinderfields

0:34:030:34:14

Hospital, completely unacceptable

people should be lying in corridors.

0:34:140:34:17

The hospital in fungi before I made

the statement on Monday that

0:34:170:34:22

patients concerned photograph had

been asked whether they wanted to

0:34:220:34:24

sit down and had decided not to.

I

am grateful that he has clarified.

0:34:240:34:33

Perhaps he should have done that on

Monday and still might be in place

0:34:330:34:37

as the Health Minister had he said

that on Monday. We have had huge

0:34:370:34:43

pressures on North East Ambulance

Services. Because of pressures they

0:34:430:34:48

are asking some patients if they

have alternative transport such as

0:34:480:34:51

family members. East of England

Ambulance Service and set some

0:34:510:34:55

patients were being sent faxes with

paramedics stuck in ambulances

0:34:550:34:58

chewing up for more than 500 hours

at hospitals. University Hospital

0:34:580:35:06

North the defence -- Midlands said

they have run out of corridor space

0:35:060:35:15

and said they have failed to

apologise for in his words third

0:35:150:35:19

World conditions. What is the

response of the Prime Minister and

0:35:190:35:26

Secretary of State? A perfunctory

apology and the blanket

0:35:260:35:30

unprecedented cancellation of

elective operations.

He mentions the

0:35:300:35:40

east of England Ambulance Service.

He will be aware of the elderly Lady

0:35:400:35:45

who lost their life waiting four

hours waiting for an ambulance to

0:35:450:35:49

arrive. Often as a result of

ambulances stacked up out of

0:35:490:35:56

hospitals. Does he agree these

intolerable incidents have to be

0:35:560:36:03

ended and to have a mature national

conversation about how we increased

0:36:030:36:07

the funding for our NHS and care

system to ensure people get care

0:36:070:36:10

when they need it?

I am entirely

happy to have a conversation about

0:36:100:36:16

how we increase the funding in the

National Health Service. But they

0:36:160:36:20

have huge scepticism that this

Government, having overseen eight

0:36:200:36:25

years of desperately tight funding

allocations for the NHS, cuts to

0:36:250:36:30

community health service are

prepared to engage constructively in

0:36:300:36:32

that conversation. On the specific

case he mention, I think the

0:36:320:36:37

honourable member for Clacton though

I cannot see in his place, apologies

0:36:370:36:40

if he is, has called for an enquiry

into that particular incident. He

0:36:400:36:46

has actually warned that if it was a

result of underfunding we need to

0:36:460:36:52

put funding into Ambulance Services

and I would share his concerns. Let

0:36:520:36:56

me make progress because I have been

generous. I am conscious it is a

0:36:560:37:02

half day debate. The consequences of

this crisis are not only to those in

0:37:020:37:07

urgent need, they are also to those

who are using the NHS, everyone,

0:37:070:37:12

because this panic cancelling of

elective operations means patients

0:37:120:37:16

will suffer. Not only will patients

suffer longer for operations whilst

0:37:160:37:19

in pain and distress, they will wait

for appointments with the

0:37:190:37:23

uncertainty of not knowing not to

know what is wrong with them, the

0:37:230:37:27

knock-on effects on NHS services on

the wider society are huge. Already,

0:37:270:37:33

patients are facing a waiting times

crisis with 4 million on the waiting

0:37:330:37:35

list. But a last month will mean

thousands of patients across the

0:37:350:37:43

country are stuck with their lives

on hold. To call this routine care

0:37:430:37:50

misses the fact that these are big

issues for those individual patients

0:37:500:37:53

affected. A young man awaiting heart

valve surgery will have to have

0:37:530:37:58

arranged for a time off work and his

family to be a ranting, to care for

0:37:580:38:03

him, now has to cancel all and does

not know when his operation will

0:38:030:38:07

happen. It also runs the risk of a

deterioration in his heart function

0:38:070:38:12

which could lead to further

hospitalisation in an emergency,

0:38:120:38:16

adding to the pressures on our

emergency service. Would he at least

0:38:160:38:27

recognised that the NHS is doing

more operations than ever before? In

0:38:270:38:32

my area of mid-Essex, and incredible

72,000 operations were carried out

0:38:320:38:40

last year, over 9000 more operations

than back in 2010. And will he join

0:38:400:38:47

me in thanking the incredible NHS

staff for the many, many more

0:38:470:38:54

outcomes that they are delivering?

Thank you. Yes, I will and they do

0:38:540:39:04

thank the NHS staff. Of course, if

she wants to thank the NHS staff,

0:39:040:39:09

she could have supported motions for

a fair pay rise. I don't think she

0:39:090:39:14

did.

I always follow his remarks

with a great deal of interest. Any

0:39:140:39:24

cancellation is appallingly bad but

does he understand the worst

0:39:240:39:28

possible cancellation is a

cancellation on the day of surgery,

0:39:280:39:31

which is clinically unacceptable.

Will he at least give the system

0:39:310:39:36

credit for at least trying to

introduce some sort of planning this

0:39:360:39:40

year, for the first time I can

remember since 1984?

The honourable

0:39:400:39:46

gentleman will know that the system

is in the state because of years of

0:39:460:39:50

sustained underfunding. I know his

response, his answer, is a

0:39:500:39:54

cross-party Commission, a sort of

Royal Commission, and I have huge

0:39:540:39:58

respect for his contributions on

these debates. Let's be clear, the

0:39:580:40:02

NHS has not been getting for eight

years the level of funding it should

0:40:020:40:06

be getting by historical terms.

Down

in Sussex, patients transport was

0:40:060:40:15

privatised and given to a company

called Copaforma. It was then

0:40:150:40:27

stripped for underperforming of the

contract in every way shape or form.

0:40:270:40:32

It has now transpired that they have

been given more money in seven

0:40:320:40:36

months than they would have a full

year. -- Coperforma.

Even if the

0:40:360:40:51

debate is allowed to run on, which

is in the hands of the usual

0:40:510:40:58

channels beyond four o'clock,

probably half loan to do so. I say

0:40:580:41:02

that now, I am not publishing a

list, we will just have to do is sit

0:41:020:41:06

and hope.

0:41:060:41:07

I will try not to take any more

interventions. This privatisation

0:41:140:41:23

was an absolute disaster. It was a

disaster for patients, for the

0:41:230:41:28

ambulance drivers who went eight

weeks without pay. He has been

0:41:280:41:33

campaigning on this as have the GMB

union and forest out to learn that

0:41:330:41:43

having entered this contract money

is still going and I praise my

0:41:430:41:50

honourable friend for leading this

campaign. I've talked about the

0:41:500:41:56

impact of cancelled operations.

0:41:560:42:08

It adds to the pressures on the

service. Somebody needs of cataract

0:42:090:42:14

operation and are now at risk

because they can see and they could

0:42:140:42:18

end up in AMD needing hospital bed.

These are real people who rely on

0:42:180:42:25

the NHS and whom the government is

letting down. I did say I would try

0:42:250:42:38

and make some progress. It's very

clear we have a lot of members who

0:42:380:42:42

want to speak. Now we are beginning

to hear it is not just routine

0:42:420:42:48

nonurgent operations being

cancelled. The Times today reports

0:42:480:42:53

of a hospital in Oxford considering

delaying the start of chemotherapy

0:42:530:42:59

due to staff salvages and lack of

capacity. A four-week delay on all

0:42:590:43:05

new patients needing chemotherapy

and there are proposals for those of

0:43:050:43:10

the first cycle to have full chemo

but then discriminate against those

0:43:100:43:14

on cycles to three and four giving

those patients number of cycles. A

0:43:140:43:21

two tier chemotherapy system. In the

Guardian today we read the story of

0:43:210:43:28

Carly O'Neill who entered the

hospital for a cancer operation, was

0:43:280:43:38

waiting in her down with wristbands

in the hospital, only to be told her

0:43:380:43:43

operation would have to be cancelled

because there wasn't a bed

0:43:430:43:46

available. Or how about my

constituent Mr Jeff Brooker who was

0:43:460:43:54

diagnosed with cancer of the

bladder. He had his planned

0:43:540:43:59

operation cancelled twice this

winter and when he was asked about

0:43:590:44:06

the apology from the Secretary of

State he said he may have apologised

0:44:060:44:09

for postponements but it was as if

he was opposed -- apologising for

0:44:090:44:16

the cancellation of a jumble sale.

Ministers were uncaring and he

0:44:160:44:21

blamed poor planning. He said if

operations like mine are postponed

0:44:210:44:26

its likely it will cause deaths. The

decision could even be the death of

0:44:260:44:29

me. Cancer patients having

operations cancelled. Trusts looking

0:44:290:44:37

at the laying chemotherapy and these

ministers said there and they should

0:44:370:44:42

be ashamed. I will give way for the

last time.

It is important that we

0:44:420:44:57

do not make a crisis where there is

not one. I have been assured by the

0:44:570:45:04

University hospitals trust today

that the leaked memo does not

0:45:040:45:09

represent the current reality. I

like him have concerns about

0:45:090:45:13

recruitment and I am worried about

the future of recruitment in the NHS

0:45:130:45:18

but it's important that we don't

current cancer patients who will

0:45:180:45:24

continue to receive their treatment.

The memo was e-mailed to staff in

0:45:240:45:31

the last few days. If the trust is

backing down on that all of us

0:45:310:45:35

across the House will welcome that.

But the point stands, the trust was

0:45:350:45:39

looking at the laying chemotherapy

and they referred to a lack of staff

0:45:390:45:44

because as we know this trust has

cast -- kept any beds in recent

0:45:440:45:48

years including cancer beds. I am

going to make some progress. We

0:45:480:46:00

don't want to make more -- this

moral crisis but cancelling

0:46:000:46:06

operations impact on hospital

finances. It means a loss of review

0:46:060:46:10

-- revenue footrests who are

struggling to meet their deficit

0:46:100:46:14

targets. Rather than allowing

waiting times to escalate further

0:46:140:46:22

why won't he today committed giving

hospitals emergency funds so those

0:46:220:46:26

cancelled operations can be

rescheduled as soon as possible and

0:46:260:46:31

hospitals do not lose the revenue

and get further into problems with

0:46:310:46:33

their deficits. They will also know

that cancellations impacts the

0:46:330:46:41

training of next generation of

doctors. So can he tell us if these

0:46:410:46:51

cancelled operations continue what

is his plan to ensure Junior doctors

0:46:510:46:56

and surgeons are able to catch up on

the training they need? Our patients

0:46:560:47:02

deserve the best trained doctors in

the world. Cancelling these

0:47:020:47:06

operations impact on the training.

We all agree that every penny counts

0:47:060:47:12

in rising to the winter crisis

caused by Downing Street. I know he

0:47:120:47:17

will tell us about the winter

funding but we also know that the

0:47:170:47:25

winter funding came too late and NHS

providers have ordered came too late

0:47:250:47:29

in December. Many hospital trusts

will be telling him privately that

0:47:290:47:33

it came too late. It also means

hospital trusts have to turn to

0:47:330:47:38

expensive private staffing, agencies

to get through the winter. In many

0:47:380:47:52

places NHS trusts effectively held

to ransom by staffing agencies. Last

0:47:520:47:56

month NHS improvement refused in a

request to publish how much these

0:47:560:48:02

private agencies accosting

individual trusts. Does he agree

0:48:020:48:05

this is unacceptable and that we

should now how much extra money set

0:48:050:48:10

aside for winter is going to private

agencies? Will he undertake to

0:48:100:48:17

produce a league table naming and

shaming every single agency and how

0:48:170:48:23

much they have been getting from

each and every trust. He will also

0:48:230:48:30

tell us that the problems we have is

because of an ageing society. Of

0:48:300:48:37

course because of the demographics

we see pressures on the service not

0:48:370:48:41

just that winter but only around

with patients being treated at this

0:48:410:48:49

time of year putting huge pressure

on the service throughout the year.

0:48:490:48:52

But these demographic changes in

society did not drop out of the blue

0:48:520:48:56

sky in the last few weeks. We have

known about these trends for years.

0:48:560:49:02

Which makes it even more criminal

that the government has presided

0:49:020:49:06

over eight years of underfunding in

the NHS. £6 million worth of cuts in

0:49:060:49:14

social care. That is why we have

seen delayed transfers of care

0:49:140:49:25

increased. And when it comes to

social care he may have the title

0:49:250:49:35

but he has no plan to deal with the

severe cuts we had over recent

0:49:350:49:41

years. What makes this winter crisis

even more serious is not just the

0:49:410:49:53

cats to social care or the

underfunding of the NHS is because

0:49:530:50:01

the crisis takes place against the

back drop of some of the most

0:50:010:50:06

serious and far-reaching neglect of

the health of our publishing

0:50:060:50:09

perpetrated on the people of this

country by more than a century. We

0:50:090:50:14

have a recognised authority on

public have warning that this

0:50:140:50:17

country has since 2010 stalled in

the task of improving the life

0:50:170:50:21

expectancy of our publish and and

the differences in life expectancy

0:50:210:50:27

between the poorest areas of the

country and most better off as

0:50:270:50:31

narrowed in recent years. This is

what happens with austerity and

0:50:310:50:37

cats. This is what happens when you

fail to invest in housing when you

0:50:370:50:42

fail to invest in the installation

of our housing stock, when you allow

0:50:420:50:46

fuel poverty to increase, when you

oversee falling incomes. The

0:50:460:50:55

shocking consequences the number of

hospital beds in England taken up by

0:50:550:50:58

patients being treated for

malnutrition doubled since 2010.

0:50:580:51:05

Isn't that a disgrace.

He is right

about one thing which is the issue

0:51:050:51:14

of demographic shift and the ageing

population is directly behind some

0:51:140:51:18

of the malnutrition figures. Is it

not the case that the failure to

0:51:180:51:28

plan for the rising and Asian

publish and didn't happen in the

0:51:280:51:32

last five years it's a failure of

the last ten to 15 years so he

0:51:320:51:37

should not pretend this has appeared

overnight.

We travelled the

0:51:370:51:44

investment in the NHS. And the

Labour government we had trolley

0:51:440:51:50

waits but what are the trolley waits

under this government?

0:51:500:52:04

This is not just a winter crisis.

This is an all-round funding crisis.

0:52:050:52:14

A year around social care crisis. A

year on health inequality crisis.

0:52:140:52:20

Manufactured in Downing Street by

this government. Eight years of

0:52:200:52:23

underfunding. 14,000 beds lost.

District nursing cut by three and a

0:52:230:52:29

half thousand. Mental health nurses

cut. GP numbers down. 40,000 nurses

0:52:290:52:35

short. Social care staff

demoralised.

In my borough of

0:52:350:52:47

Lewisham I were adolescent mental

health services are facing a budget

0:52:470:52:52

cut of up to 200,000 leaving

children not getting the children

0:52:520:52:55

they need. Will he agree with me

that the government has failed to

0:52:550:53:00

provide mental health services to

some of the most vulnerable in

0:53:000:53:03

society.

50% of children's mental

health services not with the money.

0:53:030:53:15

Yet we have this Secretary of State

in place. Isn't the truth doctors

0:53:150:53:19

and nurses have lost confidence in

him. Haitians have lost confidence

0:53:190:53:22

in him. The Prime Minister it seems

has lost confidence in him. He

0:53:220:53:28

fights for his own job but he would

fight for the NHS. Our patients are

0:53:280:53:34

crying out for change and they were

like that the Health Secretary still

0:53:340:53:38

in post today and see that to coin a

phrase that has changed, nothing is

0:53:380:53:45

changed. I commend our motion to the

House.

The question is as on the

0:53:450:53:51

order paper.

Let me start by saying

on behalf of the whole House a

0:53:510:54:02

massive thank you to all staff

across the health and care system

0:54:020:54:06

who went beyond the call of duty,

gave up their Christmases and new

0:54:060:54:12

years to keep patients say. Their

dedication makes the NHS the best

0:54:120:54:16

health care system in the world.

They demonstrated quite visibly

0:54:160:54:19

through the values constantly

putting the needs of patients before

0:54:190:54:25

there. But I am afraid that attempts

to politicise pressures on the NHS

0:54:250:54:33

are a serious mistake. The last time

the NHS had a really difficult flu

0:54:330:54:40

winter was 20 -- 2009 and he was

working in Downing Street at the

0:54:400:54:46

time. At the time the Shadow Health

Secretary refused to attack the

0:54:460:54:53

government because it was an

operational issue. Andy Burnham the

0:54:530:54:57

Health Secretary thanked him for his

measured tone so that together we

0:54:570:55:02

can give a reassuring message to the

public. Sadly I cannot say that

0:55:020:55:07

today. He says in some of the

extraordinary language he has been

0:55:070:55:16

using the NHS is on its knees so

let's look at the facts.

0:55:160:55:29

14,000 more doctors since 2010.

12,000 more nurses on awards. 5000

0:55:290:55:33

more operations every day. In A&E

's, 1800 more people being seen and

0:55:330:55:41

treated within four hours every

single day than 2010. I give way.

In

0:55:410:55:50

the note of sounding conservatory I

thank him for giving way. The Royal

0:55:500:55:55

Bolton Hospital made provisions for

the Christmas period but despite

0:55:550:56:00

that they have now had to cancel all

of their routine operations as well

0:56:000:56:06

as elective operations in trauma and

orthopaedics. I am told the 1st of

0:56:060:56:10

February 2018. Can I therefore ask

what provision and financial

0:56:100:56:16

assistance is he going to provide

for my local hospital so that they

0:56:160:56:19

don't suffer as a result of this?

0:56:190:56:25

We did provide an extra £1.4 million

for the hospital before Christmas.

0:56:250:56:31

Let me deal with the cancelled

operation, I agree it is a big deal

0:56:310:56:36

for patients who are told that their

planned procedure is going to be

0:56:360:56:40

postponed and no one wants to

minimise the distress that it

0:56:400:56:44

causes. But what happened last year

and what's happened in previous

0:56:440:56:48

winters that is operations have been

cancelled at the last moment and

0:56:480:56:54

that is much more distressing and

much more challenging for hospitals

0:56:540:56:57

to plan around that. So the decision

was taken to do this in a much more

0:56:570:57:01

planned way. We hope that over all

we will see fewer operations

0:57:010:57:06

cancelled at the last moment. But we

need to do it in a planned way.

I

0:57:060:57:14

can't myself for intervening,

somebody close in my family was a

0:57:140:57:19

person who was about to go into the

operating theatre last year. I came

0:57:190:57:22

to the Secretary of state about it

and I can tell you it wasn't a good

0:57:220:57:29

experience, it is much better

experience to be planning and giving

0:57:290:57:32

people notice and the emergencies

will happen, but those that can plan

0:57:320:57:35

ahead and we can have a better

system, I think that is a good move

0:57:350:57:40

that this Government has put in

place.

My honourable friend is right

0:57:400:57:44

and I hope she won't mind me saying

in her case it was a cancer issue

0:57:440:57:49

and one of the things that this

allows us to do is make sure we

0:57:490:57:55

don't have to cancel cancer

operations at the last moment that.

0:57:550:58:01

Moment. That is what we are trying

to do. I heard there was someone,

0:58:010:58:06

yes I will give way.

I'm grateful,

but intervene, when I had cancer

0:58:060:58:14

treatment, if my operation had been

cancelled I could have come to this

0:58:140:58:19

House and ask the Secretary of State

to intervene, but I'm speaking on

0:58:190:58:24

behalf a person who went to press to

talk about her cancer operation,

0:58:240:58:31

what can she say to her?

What I will

say is the instructions from NHS

0:58:310:58:40

England couldn't be clearer that

cancer operations should not be

0:58:400:58:43

cancelled. From the perspective of

the government and the NHS senior

0:58:430:58:52

leadership and should raise that

with me, because we want to preserve

0:58:520:58:55

the capacity for the people who most

need it. I will give way.

The

0:58:550:59:06

Secretary of State complains of

politicisation of the NHS, many

0:59:060:59:11

colleagues are offering a different

approach and a mature conversation

0:59:110:59:18

to come up with a solution. Lord

Saatchi and others are arguing for

0:59:180:59:23

the same thing. Will he embrace that

approach - a civilised approach that

0:59:230:59:28

comes up with a consensus for the

country about how we secure our

0:59:280:59:31

health and care system?

I have said

publicly that I think as we come to

0:59:310:59:36

the end of five year forward view,

we need to look to find a consensus

0:59:360:59:40

for the next stage for the NHS, we

will see need more funding, we need

0:59:400:59:48

to build a national consensus to

feigned that funding and my view is

0:59:480:59:54

we should do that for a ten-year

period. I'm open to all discussion

0:59:540:59:59

about the best way to do that, but

we heard from the shadow Health

0:59:591:00:02

Secretary that the party opposite is

not interested in being part of the

1:00:021:00:07

discussions and that is why it

illustrates how difficult it is to

1:00:071:00:13

make a consensus. I will make

progress. I want to look at what he

1:00:131:00:18

said about winter, he said that the

Government, the word he used, again,

1:00:181:00:23

he said the Government was sleep

walking into winter. This has been

1:00:231:00:30

contradicted by the medical of NHS

England, who said it is the one

1:00:301:00:36

winter we are best prepared for and

we started preparing a year earlier,

1:00:361:00:39

we have a good plan, Chris Hobson of

NHS providers who is regularly

1:00:391:00:47

criticising the Government, he said

this time preparations have never

1:00:471:00:51

been more thorough. Let's look and I

will make some progress and then

1:00:511:00:55

give way. A billion pounds into the

social care system. Because the

1:00:551:01:00

biggest lesson from last year was

that pressure in the social care

1:01:001:01:03

system was making it difficult for

hospitals to discharge. What has

1:01:031:01:08

been the result of that invest?

Combined with an extra £337 million

1:01:081:01:14

in the budget we have 1,100 hospital

beds freed up by reducing the number

1:01:141:01:21

of delayed transfers of care and

2,700 additional acute beds

1:01:211:01:27

commissioned. The shadow Health

Secretary said it is unacceptable

1:01:271:01:37

Nat 85% bed occupancy has been

missed. I said I will give way in a

1:01:371:01:45

moment. Secondly, because many

patients can be better seen by GPs,

1:01:451:01:52

in the spring Budget last year, £100

million of capital was allocated to

1:01:521:01:58

help hospitals set up GP streaming

services. In the year he said the

1:01:581:02:02

government was sleep walking, the

number of type one trusts with GP

1:02:021:02:10

streaming has tripled. And we also

made it easier for people to access

1:02:101:02:15

GPs and nurses over the Christmas

period and for the first time people

1:02:151:02:22

were able to get urgent GP

appointments. The number of 111

1:02:221:02:31

calls dealt with by a clinician has

increased to nearly 40%. That has

1:02:311:02:38

massively reduced pressures on A&Es.

I give way.

Thank you. I'm grateful.

1:02:381:02:45

Just draw to the Secretary of

State's attention the fact that we

1:02:451:02:49

continue to have no Northern Ireland

Executive. We have no local health

1:02:491:02:53

minister in Northern Ireland. So

there is a specific problem in

1:02:531:02:56

Northern Ireland. The NHS staff in

Northern Ireland are superb, but

1:02:561:03:04

they have been under enormous

pressure and the ambulance crews, it

1:03:041:03:10

is demoralising and wearisome for

them. This government must take some

1:03:101:03:15

responsibility in the continued

absence of Northern Ireland

1:03:151:03:17

Executive. Could he assure me and

tell me what recent discussions he

1:03:171:03:22

has had and with whom in Northern

Ireland about dealing with the

1:03:221:03:26

crisis in the NHS and the ambulance

crews in Northern Ireland?

Well, she

1:03:261:03:32

will understand, because I'm the

Health Secretary for England, I

1:03:321:03:35

haven't been having a lot of is

discussion about the situation in

1:03:351:03:41

Northern Ireland. But I don't want

to agree with her that it is

1:03:411:03:47

unhelpful for the NHS in Northern

Ireland if there isn't an Executive.

1:03:471:03:52

The former Northern Irish Secretary

and the House wishes him well with

1:03:521:03:57

his medical challenges, but he was

very engaged in trying to address

1:03:571:04:00

this and I know the new Northern

Irish Secretary will make it her top

1:04:001:04:05

priority, because it matters so much

for public services. I will give

1:04:051:04:08

way.

Thank you for giving way. He

doesn't want to get drawn into

1:04:081:04:13

Northern Ireland, but the Prime

Minister seems to be willing at

1:04:131:04:17

every opportunity to attempt to

smear the Welsh NHS. Spending in

1:04:171:04:24

Wales is 8% higher per head than in

England. It went un-4.5% last year.

1:04:241:04:31

We are putting funding up, but the

Prime Minister seems to suggest

1:04:311:04:34

otherwise.

Well, he forgets the

Barnett formula is the reason why

1:04:341:04:40

spending is higher in Wales. But I

have things to say about the

1:04:401:04:43

situation in Wales. I will oblige

him later. I will give way.

Could I

1:04:431:04:48

bring the Secretary of State back to

the point about the benefit of

1:04:481:04:52

having gap-led services in hospitals

to take the pressure off A&E and

1:04:521:04:58

commend Solihull hospital or the

doing that and with a reduction in

1:04:581:05:03

those, the winter pressures, the

examples that have been given and

1:05:031:05:07

could that be replicated across the

NHS?

This is what is so

1:05:071:05:12

disappointing about some of the tone

we have been hearing. We seeing

1:05:121:05:22

reforms that are making a real

difference and I commend what is

1:05:221:05:26

happening in Solihull, but the key

to solving the long-term pressures

1:05:261:05:30

on our emergency departments is to

be better at treating people in the

1:05:301:05:35

community and the van guard areas of

the NHS are seen their growth in

1:05:351:05:42

emergency admissions about half the

national average and this is the

1:05:421:05:46

five-year view that we are rolling

out. And I think we need to

1:05:461:05:51

celebrate where that success is. I'm

going the make some progress before

1:05:511:05:54

I give way further. Because there is

something important that we haven't

1:05:541:05:59

been talking about very much, which

is extremely relevant to people on

1:05:591:06:04

the NHS front line and that is flu.

We have had a much bigger spike in

1:06:041:06:10

flu cases this year, a much bigger

spike than we have had at any time

1:06:101:06:17

since the winter of 2009. But we

have the most comprehensive flu

1:06:171:06:23

vaccination programme in Europe and

this year it was made available to

1:06:231:06:26

people who are eight years and under

and to care home staff and the

1:06:261:06:30

result is that we have a million

more people vaccinated for flu this

1:06:301:06:34

year than in the year before. And

uptake among NHS staff is at 59.3%,

1:06:341:06:41

the highest ever. So I just say

this, because the honourable

1:06:411:06:44

gentleman seems to be trying to make

the case that no preparations were

1:06:441:06:48

made when the reality is that the

NHS could not have been working

1:06:481:06:53

harder to prepare for this winter.

And I want to make this point, the

1:06:531:06:58

result of those preparations is that

A&E performance having been

1:06:581:07:02

declining for six years in a row,

last year for the first time

1:07:021:07:06

according to the latest data,

actually stabilised. In the week

1:07:061:07:11

after Christmas, compared to the

year before we had fewer A&E

1:07:111:07:15

diverts, more calls to NHS 11. The

trolley waits which people have been

1:07:151:07:21

talking about and it unacceptable

for people to be left on a trolley

1:07:211:07:26

for a long time, but the November

figures show they were down three

1:07:261:07:33

quarters compared to the previous

November. A huge amount has been

1:07:331:07:37

happening.

Does he think that

patients being treated in cleaning

1:07:371:07:45

cup boards, six patients in four bed

bays without lockerser curtains or

1:07:451:07:50

call bells is a sign of good

preparation for the winter crisis.

1:07:501:07:54

It is unacceptable. But what is

disappointing that is she stands up

1:07:541:07:58

and runs down the NHS when her own

trust which received £3.4 million of

1:07:581:08:08

funding before Christmas to help

with winter has managed to improve

1:08:081:08:14

performance last November's figures

91.8%, compared to 77.7% a year

1:08:141:08:20

earlier. That is a huge achievement.

Why won't she praise what is

1:08:201:08:25

happening, rather than rung it down?

Very grateful and I support the

1:08:251:08:31

leadership he has offered for this

winter crisis and support the tone

1:08:311:08:34

he has been atopting in this debate

-- adopting in this debate and now

1:08:341:08:43

he has widened responsibilities for

social care, can he help west

1:08:431:08:49

Berkshire who have had problems with

past formulas and don't have enough

1:08:491:08:53

money to take the pressure off the

hospital in the way he would like?

I

1:08:531:08:58

will revisit the issues in his local

authority, because I have looked at

1:08:581:09:02

them before and I know there are

particular precious there. But he

1:09:021:09:08

alights on again something which the

opposition have not wanted to talk

1:09:081:09:10

about, which is significant, which

is the Prime Minister's commitment

1:09:101:09:14

to the integration of health and

social care, something which eluded

1:09:141:09:20

the last Labour Government over 13

year, we are now starting to see

1:09:201:09:24

this happen and the decision made on

Monday means that the decision means

1:09:241:09:30

that policy leadership will come

back to the Department of Health

1:09:301:09:34

which will help it progress faster.

I will give way one more time.

I

1:09:341:09:44

would like to bring back the point

about caring for people before they

1:09:441:09:47

get to hospital and issues to do

with GPs in my local area there has

1:09:471:09:52

been a difficult recruiting GPs and

the investment in increasing medical

1:09:521:09:59

training for new doctors is vital. I

would like to take this opportunity

1:09:591:10:03

to plead with the Secretary of state

to look at the bid from Anglia

1:10:031:10:08

Ruskin university to become the

first medical school in Essex, where

1:10:081:10:14

is there is no path way for young

people to train as doctors within

1:10:141:10:19

the county.

I note her very

persuasive plea for her local

1:10:191:10:27

university and this is not a

decision that I'm going to be

1:10:271:10:32

taking, because my own university is

also keen to offer more medical

1:10:321:10:35

places. But she is right, to say

that training the next generation of

1:10:351:10:41

doctors and nurses is again the

long-term solution to the pressures.

1:10:411:10:47

I'm going to make some progress and

then I will give way, a final set of

1:10:471:10:53

interventions. Now, the heart of the

shadow Health Secretary's case that

1:10:531:10:58

is winter pressures are caused by

political decisions and not by

1:10:581:11:04

operational issues. So let's put

aside the difficult winters that

1:11:041:11:09

Labour had in 1999, 2008 and 2009,

but if he is going to drag politics

1:11:091:11:14

into this, he cannot say that it is

the fault of politicians in England

1:11:141:11:19

and then totally ly gloss over the

responsibility of politicians in

1:11:191:11:26

Wales, where the royal college of

emergency medicine say it is a

1:11:261:11:30

battlefield and patient safety is

compromise and it is unsafe and I

1:11:301:11:38

say to him this, if it is the

government's fault in England that

1:11:381:11:43

one in nine A&E patients are waiting

too long, whose fault is it in Wales

1:11:431:11:49

where one in six are waiting too

long and that the test results if

1:11:491:11:54

you're waiting in Wales, you're nine

times more likely to wait too long.

1:11:541:11:57

I give way.

1:11:571:12:04

I thank my Right Honourable friend

for giving way. As far as the Welsh

1:12:041:12:08

NHS is concerned he is right. If I

may have slight indulgence, may I

1:12:081:12:13

give a quote from an A&E nurse in

Wales who gave this quote last week:

1:12:131:12:18

"On every shift both corridors are

full of patients on trolleys. We are

1:12:181:12:24

housing ambulance crews for longer

than ever due to bed is not being

1:12:241:12:26

available in the hospital, patients

are being nursed in inappropriate

1:12:261:12:30

areas due to no space. I've seen

nurses in tears. I myself have been

1:12:301:12:34

in tears. This is the first time

I've ever been demoralised and

1:12:341:12:39

embarrassed to say I'm an A&E nurse

in Wales." That's in Wales under

1:12:391:12:46

Welsh Labour. With the Right

Honourable gentleman agree with me

1:12:461:12:48

that that is pure hypocrisy coming

from that side of the House and they

1:12:481:12:51

should take notice of the mistakes

that have been made in Wales?

I

1:12:511:12:54

totally agree with my honourable

friend. I totally agree with my

1:12:541:12:59

honourable friend, and I think this

is the central flaw in the case that

1:12:591:13:03

the party opposite are making. We

know winter is the most difficult

1:13:031:13:07

time, but they cannot say there is

political responsibility in one part

1:13:071:13:11

of the UK and say absolutely

nothing, I noticed the Shadow Health

1:13:111:13:15

Secretary looking at his notes when

we talk about Wales, but the reality

1:13:151:13:18

is it blows apart his case.

According to the BMA there is one

1:13:181:13:22

area where not a single doctor was

available overnight, and there is

1:13:221:13:27

one A&E where performance has fallen

to 40%, something unheard of in

1:13:271:13:31

England, or indeed in Scotland. But

there is a political decision that

1:13:311:13:35

has a big impact on NHS winter

performance, and it's something my

1:13:351:13:41

honourable friend from Chelmsford

talked about earlier, which is the

1:13:411:13:44

number of doctors that we train. Not

once in my time as Health Secretary

1:13:441:13:49

have I heard Labour called for an

increase in training places. But the

1:13:491:13:51

simple truth is... The simple truth

is that there is no point in

1:13:511:13:57

throwing money at a problem if you

don't have the doctors and nurses

1:13:571:14:00

available to spend that money on.

Whilst I have been Health Secretary

1:14:001:14:06

we have 40,000 more doctors, nurses

and other clinicians working in the

1:14:061:14:11

NHS. But we need more and that is

why under this Prime Minister we

1:14:111:14:14

have announced the biggest increase

in training places for doctors and

1:14:141:14:18

nurses in the history of the NHS. I

will give weight to the honourable

1:14:181:14:23

gentleman and then I will give way.

Can I take him back to the issue of

1:14:231:14:27

social care, and by the way,

congratulations on facing down the

1:14:271:14:31

primers on Monday, you emerged as

one man, two jobs and no governor!

1:14:311:14:35

But he must accept that the cuts of

£6 billion since 2010 in social care

1:14:351:14:42

has had a major impact, particularly

on winter crises. Does he regret the

1:14:421:14:49

Government's decision to take the

money out of social care?

1:14:491:14:52

What I would say to him is that in

2010 we were facing the worst

1:14:521:14:56

financial crisis the Second World

War. He will know which government

1:14:561:15:02

was in charge when that happened.

People were talking about a run on

1:15:021:15:06

the pound, and I noticed the party

opposite continues to talk about a

1:15:061:15:10

run on the pound, and that crisis

had to be addressed. We, like other

1:15:101:15:15

countries, had to make significant

reductions in public funding. But

1:15:151:15:19

when we got the economy back on its

feet, when we started creating jobs,

1:15:191:15:23

1000 jobs a day since 2010, what was

the first place with that extra

1:15:231:15:28

money into? The NHS and indeed the

social care system, £600 million

1:15:281:15:33

more in the social care system than

two years ago. I want to progress

1:15:331:15:38

because there are lots of people

that want to speak this afternoon

1:15:381:15:40

and I'm going to conclude my

remarks. I will give weight to my

1:15:401:15:44

honourable friend.

I thank him for

giving way, he knows of my interest

1:15:441:15:47

in the Ambulance Services and I was

on duty for Yorkshire Ambulance

1:15:471:15:51

Services responder for Christmas and

New Year and will be again tomorrow

1:15:511:15:54

night. When he talks about workforce

planning he talks about doctors and

1:15:541:15:58

nurses quite rightly. Will he say

something about how incredibly well

1:15:581:16:02

trained paramedics can be used to

better relieve some of the pressure

1:16:021:16:08

that we see at A&E and some of the

delays that occur there?

I thank him

1:16:081:16:11

for his work as a first responder

because it's a fantastic example in

1:16:111:16:13

his community. We have several

hundred more paramedics and we have

1:16:131:16:17

several years ago. He's absolutely

right, the role of paramedics has

1:16:171:16:20

been dramatically changed over

recent years. It used to be about

1:16:201:16:24

scooping people up and taking them

to hospitals. Now we are treating

1:16:241:16:27

many more people on the spot, and

they have an extraordinarily

1:16:271:16:31

important role. But it is a changed

role, and it is a changed emphasis,

1:16:311:16:35

as in other parts of the NHS, which

is moving towards doing as much as

1:16:351:16:39

we can to treat people safely

outside hospitals, to keep them at

1:16:391:16:42

home, because we know that is the

safest way. I'm going to give way

1:16:421:16:46

one last time. I can see that... I

will give way to a couple more.

I'm

1:16:461:16:53

grateful to the Health Secretary for

giving way. The simple fact is if we

1:16:531:16:57

want to see more care in community

to the government must start -- stop

1:16:571:17:02

slashing social care budgets, if we

want to stop people coming to

1:17:021:17:06

hospital with preventable diseases

we must put more money in full so

1:17:061:17:14

when you look at the money going in

the government is penny wise and

1:17:141:17:21

pound foolish.

3 million additional

jobs created so we have a strong

1:17:211:17:24

additional, economic record which is

why we have been increasing funding

1:17:241:17:27

on social care recently. We have

increased funding on the NHS

1:17:271:17:31

significantly, and as for slashing

funding, his local trust received

1:17:311:17:36

£9.7 million before Christmas. I

give way.

I'm grateful to my Right

1:17:361:17:41

Honourable friend. Can I ask him to

reflect on the issue of beds and

1:17:411:17:44

inform him that as a result of some

of the measures taken by him in

1:17:441:17:50

recent weeks, Shrewsbury and Telford

Hospital trust in my area managed to

1:17:501:17:55

release an extra 120 beds to help

cope with the significant winter

1:17:551:17:58

pressures they have received. Would

he agree with me that in areas which

1:17:581:18:03

have community hospitals, such as

Bridgnorth Community Hospital and

1:18:031:18:06

Ludlow Community Hospital in my area

where there are community beds, that

1:18:061:18:09

they have a role to play in

releasing pressure on the acute

1:18:091:18:13

hospitals for those patients that no

longer need acute care?

I do agree

1:18:131:18:17

with that. But as he has intervened

in this debate I want to take the

1:18:171:18:20

chance to thank him for being

absolutely superb Minister of stay

1:18:201:18:24

at the Department of Health, and the

fact that the NHS is better prepared

1:18:241:18:27

this year than it has been for very

many years is partly because of his

1:18:271:18:32

efforts. I want to commend him for

his fantastic contribution. I will

1:18:321:18:36

give weight one final time.

Does my

Right Honourable friend agree with

1:18:361:18:40

me that the calibre of local trust

leadership can play a huge role in

1:18:401:18:44

this? In Gloucestershire new trust

leadership has tackled head on

1:18:441:18:48

serious internal financial failings

and as a result A&E times have been

1:18:481:18:52

slashed and turned around. In

December the A&E waiting targets

1:18:521:18:55

were met. Does he not agree that

this shows what can be done with the

1:18:551:18:59

right leadership?

It absolutely does

and no one campaigns more vigorously

1:18:591:19:05

for local trusts than my Right

Honourable friend. I visited the

1:19:051:19:08

Gloucester sight of his trust and

met the management and staff just

1:19:081:19:11

before Christmas and it is

extraordinarily impressive and a

1:19:111:19:13

great inspiration to many parts of

the NHS. I just want to finish by

1:19:131:19:18

talking about the issue of funding,

because the Shadow Health Secretary

1:19:181:19:21

again has been using very strong

language, conveniently overlooking

1:19:211:19:25

the fact that in the last four years

real terms funding for the NHS has

1:19:251:19:30

increased by £9.3 billion. That is

£5.5 billion more than his party

1:19:301:19:36

were promising in 2015. But he is

right. I'm going to conclude my

1:19:361:19:43

comments now because a lot of

honourable member is to speak. He is

1:19:431:19:46

right that there are real pressures.

What are the facts? We spend 9.9% of

1:19:461:19:52

our GDP on health, that's 1% above

the EU average and about the same as

1:19:521:19:57

the EU 15, the Western European

countries. But we want to spend more

1:19:571:20:01

so this is what we've been doing. In

England from 2011 funding went up by

1:20:011:20:08

15.6%. In Wales Labour chose to only

increase it by 8%. This motion is

1:20:081:20:13

about money and I just want to

conclude by saying this. When it

1:20:131:20:16

comes to NHS funding Labour give the

speeches but Conservatives give the

1:20:161:20:22

cash. SPEAKER:

Dr Philippa Whitford.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. Like others

1:20:221:20:30

across the House I want to thank all

staff in all four UK systems who is

1:20:301:20:38

as Secretary of State said have gone

above the Call Of Duty to focus on

1:20:381:20:41

their patients. I don't think any

debate we have in here is intended

1:20:411:20:45

to upset, or insult any of them.

Before I start them before the

1:20:451:20:50

honourable member for Ludlow perhaps

leaves the chamber, if I could thank

1:20:501:20:53

him for his service as a Minister of

stay for help and I have often met

1:20:531:21:01

across the chamber. I'd like to

correct a comment he made in answer

1:21:011:21:05

to my question on Monday, which was

incorrect. He claimed at that time

1:21:051:21:09

that the number of patients waiting

longer than 12 hours in A&E in

1:21:091:21:13

England was half the level in

Scotland. Now, naturally I would

1:21:131:21:18

have expected a Minister to know all

the stats and what they mean. In

1:21:181:21:24

England data is only published for

the percentage of patients who meet

1:21:241:21:27

or do not meet the four-hour target.

There is no publication of data of

1:21:271:21:32

eight hours or 12 hours. What

happens is the clock restarts for

1:21:321:21:37

patients who require admissions, and

that is defined from the decision to

1:21:371:21:42

admit until they get a bed and are

known as trolley waits. So, 48,000

1:21:421:21:49

patients waited over four hours on a

trolley after their four-hour wait

1:21:491:21:54

in A&E to get a bed and the 109 he

was referring to had waited over 12

1:21:541:22:01

hours on a trolley for a bed after

the four or five hours they had

1:22:011:22:07

waited in A&E, and therefore this

was utterly incorrect to compare

1:22:071:22:10

that with the Scottish data where we

have a single clock from when the

1:22:101:22:14

patient starts right through until

they get where they are going. I

1:22:141:22:19

simply want to clarify that while

the member is in the chamber.

I

1:22:191:22:24

thank the honourable member for

giving way. That doesn't negate the

1:22:241:22:28

fact, and I know this is one of the

past time the SNP want to engage in,

1:22:281:22:33

comparing Scotland and England, it

is a fascination for them. But the

1:22:331:22:38

reality is that in my constituency

in Stirling served by an excellent

1:22:381:22:44

hospital, 57% of the patients only

were seen within four hours in the

1:22:441:22:50

last week of last year because we

have a flu epidemic in Scotland, as

1:22:501:22:53

they do in England, and I think that

should be acknowledged.

I thank the

1:22:531:22:59

honourable member for his

intervention and if he would give me

1:22:591:23:01

a bit longer I would intend to talk

about the flu epidemic. I think

1:23:011:23:05

before he gets too celebratory he

might want to wait until tomorrow

1:23:051:23:09

until we have come parable data,

because while in Scotland the data

1:23:091:23:13

is published every week, in England

it's only published every month. I

1:23:131:23:18

am glad, however, that we no longer

wait six weeks after the end of the

1:23:181:23:22

month, ten weeks after the start of

it, but get it a fortnight later so

1:23:221:23:26

that will be available tomorrow and

then he can compare hospital trusts

1:23:261:23:30

in England with hospitals in

Scotland to his heart's content. As

1:23:301:23:35

someone who celebrates the United

Kingdom, I think the fact that

1:23:351:23:39

Scotland has led the entire UK since

March 2015 on emergency admissions

1:23:391:23:44

and A&E would be something he might

actually want to praise. Having

1:23:441:23:49

corrected that, all of us recognise

this is a particularly tough winter

1:23:491:23:53

because there has been an outbreak

of flu on top of a bad freeze. Now,

1:23:531:23:58

I would point out for those of you

who think the worst is past, the flu

1:23:581:24:02

season goes until March, and at the

moment this is an outbreak, it isn't

1:24:021:24:07

an epidemic on its an outbreak. At

it comes on top of underlying

1:24:071:24:13

pressures. And obviously we see

right across the four nations that

1:24:131:24:18

this has involved staff having to

really come as I said, go above and

1:24:181:24:21

beyond the Call Of Duty. Now, I

think it's unfortunate, and whether

1:24:211:24:28

it was how Public Health England

said it, or how the media reacted to

1:24:281:24:32

it, but this business of describing

in public that the flu vaccination

1:24:321:24:35

doesn't work is irresponsible. The

flu vaccination recipe is planned

1:24:351:24:41

why the World Health Organisation at

the beginning of each year. They

1:24:411:24:46

will already be working on next

year's flew. They do not have a

1:24:461:24:49

crystal ball and people who have

what we call in the medical

1:24:491:24:54

profession a retrospective scope

should recognise that that tool was

1:24:541:24:57

not available at the time the

decisions were made. Flu. It is a

1:24:571:25:01

biological process to produce a

vaccine and it takes months, so the

1:25:011:25:08

position is made in March for the

northern hemisphere, and all of the

1:25:081:25:13

companies produce to that recipe.

Headlines in Scotland implying the

1:25:131:25:19

Scottish Government pop down to

Boots and took the wrong vaccine

1:25:191:25:23

off-the-shelf art facile, but it

actually encourages people not to

1:25:231:25:28

bother. We already have falling

vaccination rates in childhood

1:25:281:25:33

vaccination and in flu. We should be

pointing out that multiple flu

1:25:331:25:41

viruses are circulating, and while

all the talk in the media's is, of

1:25:411:25:47

Australian flu that is about a

quarter of the strains circulating

1:25:471:25:50

for someone of the issues around flu

is it happens in cold weather. We

1:25:501:25:56

get the coldest weather in the

United Kingdom, so we have double

1:25:561:25:58

the rate of flu that you have done

here in England. We also had a worse

1:25:581:26:05

freeze and are continuing to have a

worse freeze, so in actual fact,

1:26:051:26:09

when you are looking at the data I

think you will see that Scotland,

1:26:091:26:12

when the data comes out tomorrow,

will still lead the UK. We won't be

1:26:121:26:16

performing to the level that we want

to. We haven't met the 95% target

1:26:161:26:22

for emergency departments since

August. But England hasn't met them

1:26:221:26:26

since 2015 and sadly Wales has not

met them since 2008, so this is a

1:26:261:26:31

challenge right across, but Scotland

has been more resilient. I call on

1:26:311:26:35

all MPs to encourage staff and

people to get flu vaccination,

1:26:351:26:42

because this will continue until

March, and it is still absolutely

1:26:421:26:44

worth doing.

1:26:441:26:47

One of the issue is the Secretary of

State talks as if the problems in

1:26:471:26:56

A&E are due to people who shouldn't

be there. People who work there say

1:26:561:27:00

that isn't the case. With fractured

ankles and wrists on the ice, A&Es

1:27:001:27:07

will have been busy, having people

carted in and X rayed and what we

1:27:071:27:14

Saul in Scotland getting a stookie

put on before they go home that,

1:27:141:27:18

will take time. Anyone who works in

A&E will say the issue is frail,

1:27:181:27:27

sick people with often multiple

conditions. Whether they have

1:27:271:27:30

fractured their hip or have a

respirty problem secondary to flu

1:27:301:27:38

they need a bed and there is not

enough beds.

I thank the honourable

1:27:381:27:42

lady, I do work in A&E and I have

spent some shifts in recess working

1:27:421:27:50

in A&E on new year's eve. Many of

the people attending where I work

1:27:501:27:57

are there because they're frail,

they're also there because this

1:27:571:28:02

Government has ensured they can't

get an appointment with their GP and

1:28:021:28:09

we don't have mental health budgets.

I thank the honourable lady or the

1:28:091:28:13

the intervention. The shape of

medicine has changed, more is

1:28:131:28:18

delivered in primary care. More

surgery is delivered in a day. If

1:28:181:28:22

you're doing a straight forward

operation on an older patient, they

1:28:221:28:26

will still always require longer

rehabilitation, they're more likely

1:28:261:28:34

to stay self-days, if their fracture

their hip they will require full

1:28:341:28:39

rehabilitation before they go home

and the beds in England have been

1:28:391:28:44

halved since 1987 throughout

successive governments and if you

1:28:441:28:47

look at the NHS stats that were

released for the end of the second

1:28:471:28:53

quarter of 17/18 there has been

almost a thousand beds lost even

1:28:531:28:57

since the winter of last year, where

it was described as a humanitarian

1:28:571:29:03

crisis that. Was a wint hear the was

mild and didn't have a flu outbreak.

1:29:031:29:09

England only has 2.4 beds per

thousand population. The EU 15 has

1:29:091:29:16

3.7 and in Scotland we have more

than 4. If you're running constantly

1:29:161:29:22

with bed occupancy over 85% or over

90%, that is where the issue lies. I

1:29:221:29:28

give way.

Thank you she referred to

the decreasing number of beds

1:29:281:29:34

available, we have got a bottleneck

in many hospitals due to lack of

1:29:341:29:39

social care and one day in my area

over half of ambulance transfers

1:29:391:29:44

were completed within the required

period, so the Secretary of State

1:29:441:29:53

likes to quote statistics but I

would like give him that one to

1:29:531:29:56

think about.

There will be a lot of

talk about the 4 hour target and the

1:29:561:30:02

numbers, as I have said before, it

is a thermometer to look at the

1:30:021:30:06

entire system from the patient

turning up at A&E to them going home

1:30:061:30:10

and that is what it is a measure of

and it is there to flag up concern.

1:30:101:30:17

Why we get that data, we have

already seen ambulances queueing 12

1:30:171:30:23

deep and heard 75,000 patients

between half an hour and an hour

1:30:231:30:27

stuck in an ambulance. As was

mentioned by the member for

1:30:271:30:33

Nottingham I think, not sure, who is

no longer in his place, this means

1:30:331:30:38

the ambulances are not available to

respond to other 999 calls and that

1:30:381:30:43

does endanger patients. I think

that...

Thank you, I apologise, I

1:30:431:30:54

believe she may have been answering

the point, I accept the point she

1:30:541:30:57

makes that many in A&E need to be in

A&E, but the admissions have gone up

1:30:571:31:02

by 20% over the last ten years into

A&E to 6 million a year. And I would

1:31:021:31:08

ask her to come back to the point

about GPs, and whether there is more

1:31:081:31:13

interventions that could be made by

GPs to some of those admission being

1:31:131:31:19

made.

I'm not sure whether the

honourable gentleman meant

1:31:191:31:25

attendances at A&E or admissions,

which he said.

Attendance. If you

1:31:251:31:31

speak to people in A&E, attendances

tend to be higher in the summer, it

1:31:311:31:38

issed a admissions that are higher

in winter and winter is dominated by

1:31:381:31:48

people who are sick. You want the 11

system to work. But the problem

1:31:481:31:53

comes if that gets too complicated

and patients can't work out where

1:31:531:31:59

they should go, they will go A&E and

where they should go for what is

1:31:591:32:05

clear. I think having seen the

crisis last year when there was not

1:32:051:32:09

flu or snow or ice to blame, there

are underlying problems, structural

1:32:091:32:17

problems. The target was met until

2013 when the health and social care

1:32:171:32:24

act changes kicked in and health and

social care was fragmented and based

1:32:241:32:30

on competition instead of

co-operation. And while I would

1:32:301:32:33

welcome any kind of cross party

group in here so we didn't always

1:32:331:32:37

have these debates, it has to be to

actually look at the structure and

1:32:371:32:43

unpicking what has been done to NHS

England in the last four and a half

1:32:431:32:47

years. Because going on breaking it

apart will not solve the solution.

1:32:471:32:54

Would she agree that the

Government's plans to pass through

1:32:541:33:00

organisations which is an

exacerbation of this fragments

1:33:001:33:04

through secondly legislation is

wrong and will make the NHS crisis

1:33:041:33:09

worse in the future?

I agree the

idea of accountable care

1:33:091:33:18

organisations through secondary

legislation is wrong. What I have

1:33:181:33:21

said is believe that going back to

place-based planning is the right

1:33:211:33:26

way to integrate and develop a local

service. But it should not have a

1:33:261:33:30

private company at the top of it,

who is making the decisions. It need

1:33:301:33:34

to be a publicly accountable body.

That structure, as there will be

1:33:341:33:40

another big eorganisation in

England, the structure should be

1:33:401:33:44

debated in this place. Not done

behind closed doors. Because while

1:33:441:33:48

money is tight and obviously the NHS

has had just over 1% per year rises

1:33:481:33:55

in the last seven years, as opposed

to 4% in the past, what we see it is

1:33:551:34:02

estimated between five and ten

billion is wasted in the health care

1:34:021:34:07

market, the bidding, the tendering

and the habit of suing if you don't

1:34:071:34:14

get a contract. It is crucial to

move back to developing services for

1:34:141:34:18

a community and that health and

social care are integrated and I

1:34:181:34:25

welcome the combination of both

titles in the Secretary of State's

1:34:251:34:30

fro if that means we will work to

integration. But it must be done in

1:34:301:34:36

a structured, responsible legalistic

way.

If I could take her to Wales,

1:34:361:34:44

that the Government spent a lot of

time attacking the Welsh NHS, in

1:34:441:34:49

terms of the new attitude of not

attacking services would he join me

1:34:491:34:56

in condemning David Cameron's saying

it was life and death depending on

1:34:561:35:00

which you country you lived in, in

Wales we have integrated health and

1:35:001:35:10

social care service. Would she join

me in saying in terms of cross party

1:35:101:35:15

working that could happen,

particularly if the government were

1:35:151:35:18

willing to engage in the services,

raer this than attacking the

1:35:181:35:23

Scottish the Scottish and Welsh

Government, we could use this to

1:35:231:35:28

learn good practice.

There are four

health services and they're

1:35:281:35:32

different and you have four

laboratories, while NHS England is

1:35:321:35:40

the largest, they face different and

similar challenges. If there was

1:35:401:35:44

more discussions there must be less

in learning in different directions.

1:35:441:35:50

We have been promised in 2010 there

would be no reorganisation and in

1:35:501:35:55

2015, but NHS England is facing

another reorganisation. In the STP

1:35:551:36:02

system and accountable care. It is

crucial that it is no at is not the

1:36:021:36:09

bottom line. So I think it is wrong

that it should be through secondary

1:36:091:36:14

legislation and I think it must be

done in this place, whether through

1:36:141:36:18

debate, through committee, through

convention, through a royal

1:36:181:36:21

commission to come up with a

structure that will function,

1:36:211:36:24

because since 2013 the deficits have

gone up, the waiting time failures

1:36:241:36:29

have gone up, the stress on staff

has gone up and this makes it harder

1:36:291:36:33

to keep hold of people. Let's put

the patient in the middle, but let's

1:36:331:36:38

support the staff that look after

the patients.

The honourable lady

1:36:381:36:43

has concluded her contribution. We

are grateful to her. Can I advise

1:36:431:36:48

the House on account of large number

of members interested in

1:36:481:36:52

contributing, there will be a four

minute limit on backbench speeches.

1:36:521:36:58

Andrea Jenkins.

Thank you. It is

good to be back after using the

1:36:581:37:08

nature on maternity leave. I'm proud

of our NHS and I'm tired of people

1:37:081:37:12

on the opposition benches talking it

down. Our health care system is one

1:37:121:37:16

of the best in the world and while

there is more to do, we should

1:37:161:37:20

continue to improve the NHS with

excitements for the opportunity

1:37:201:37:25

ahead. We need to be honest about

our situation and we have about

1:37:251:37:29

ageing and expanding population and

another strong performing health

1:37:291:37:34

care systems around the globe are

facing the same pressures. As a

1:37:341:37:42

member of Taiwan APP I saw the

health care provision they have, but

1:37:421:37:48

their ministers said their facing

the same pressures as we are. It is

1:37:481:37:52

a wonderful thing that we are living

longer, a credit to not only the

1:37:521:37:57

advance in medicine, but evidence of

the effectiveness of this

1:37:571:38:02

Government's care policy and the

performance of the NHS. The

1:38:021:38:12

Government began preparation for

winter pressures earlier than before

1:38:121:38:16

and planned to free up 2,000 beds

and expanded the flu vaccination

1:38:161:38:21

programme. In my area, the mid

Yorkshire hospital trust received an

1:38:211:38:27

extra 3.4 million and the Leeds

teaching hospital also. The acute

1:38:271:38:36

care stated, the NHS is better

prepared than ever for winter. From

1:38:361:38:42

2015 the Government continued to

increase investment from 101 billion

1:38:421:38:51

to 120. It is false to say the

budget has been cut since 2010. But

1:38:511:38:57

it is not always how money is

invested, but how it is used. During

1:38:571:39:04

my University studies I looked at

economic and health care policy and

1:39:041:39:10

investment versus health care

outcomes. There is a lot of waste in

1:39:101:39:13

the NHS and this Government has a

strong record at tackling it.

1:39:131:39:25

Cutting agency staff, and the

consolidation of services are only

1:39:251:39:30

some of examples where progress has

been made. To not only deliver

1:39:301:39:35

better value for money, for the

taxpayer, to deliver results in

1:39:351:39:39

light of our ageing and expanding

population. There is still more to

1:39:391:39:47

do and I'm encouraged by the

Government's action. And to those of

1:39:471:39:51

my honourable friend the Secretary

of State who I would like to take

1:39:511:39:55

this opportunity to congratulate on

his additional responsibilities,

1:39:551:40:03

integrating health and social care

makes sense and I wish my honourable

1:40:031:40:07

friend much success and I know this

is an area he is passionate about.

1:40:071:40:12

GP working days and seven day NHS

are only some of the areas where

1:40:121:40:16

work has done and it will ensure

that winter preparations get better.

1:40:161:40:21

As the Secretary of State has

evidenced, I urge the opposition to

1:40:211:40:27

look at their own record in Wales.

During last year, I myself required

1:40:271:40:32

care of the NHS on a number of

occasions. During my pregnancy I

1:40:321:40:37

developed a temporary heart

condition and I have to say the care

1:40:371:40:40

was excellent. The way that the

Government's invested in mental

1:40:401:40:46

health provisions for those who

have... Babies is also excellent. So

1:40:461:40:50

it is saved my husband's life when

he had stage four cancer. So I would

1:40:501:40:56

like to comment the Government on

their work and wish them every

1:40:561:41:00

success in the new roles.

1:41:001:41:09

I want to talk about the situation

at my hospital. Year-on-year the

1:41:091:41:14

crisis escalates. Each winter are

hospital features lyrically in the

1:41:141:41:19

national press, so often the worst

affected, just as, no coincidence,

1:41:191:41:24

it's funding deficit is England's

worst. This winter is the first time

1:41:241:41:27

Royal Stowe consultants have taken

to social media to apologise for 36

1:41:271:41:32

hour A&E waits a full corridor is

jammed with the frail and elderly on

1:41:321:41:38

trolleys yet again and for what they

now describe as third World

1:41:381:41:41

conditions. Mr Speaker, the

background to all this is all the

1:41:411:41:44

areas subject to sustainability and

transformation plans,

1:41:441:41:49

Staffordshire's STP is the worst

performing of the country. Before

1:41:491:41:53

the 2015 general election locally we

exposed a funding deficit prior to

1:41:531:41:58

the STP that would have reached £250

million a year by 2020, since then

1:41:581:42:03

the issues have been exactly the

same but the figures are double for

1:42:031:42:08

help and social care and the Royal

Stowe accounts for over 100 million

1:42:081:42:11

of that having taken of the crisis

ridden Stafford Hospital which extra

1:42:111:42:15

government funding has now stopped.

The response so far has not been to

1:42:151:42:19

invest for change but launch a

scorched earth policy, community

1:42:191:42:23

hospitals being closed, wards shut,

drug and alcohol services axed and

1:42:231:42:29

lip service paid to the

prioritisation of mental health. And

1:42:291:42:31

where Mrs big is the effect most

acutely felt? At A&E and admissions

1:42:311:42:37

at Royal Stowe Community Hospital,

already brim full to capacity,

1:42:371:42:40

struggling to discharge patients

because social services are also in

1:42:401:42:45

social crisis. Mr Speaker, on 23rd

of November I attended a CCG

1:42:451:42:48

consultation, designing your local

future health services at Bramall

1:42:481:42:55

hospital at Newcastle-under-Lyme, a

hospital close to my heart. At the

1:42:551:42:58

turn of the millennium before I

became MP I check my local NHS care

1:42:581:43:02

for all campaign which save the

hospital as a facility precisely to

1:43:021:43:05

take pressure off. My father passed

away there in 1997 and my mother a

1:43:051:43:11

former nurse, after a catastrophic

stroke three years ago. At the end

1:43:111:43:16

of March last year our local CCG

closed Bramall hospital along with

1:43:161:43:22

Cheadle community hospitals and

moorlands hospital since. Madam

1:43:221:43:28

Deputy Speaker, I was not the only

person at that November meeting to

1:43:281:43:32

label the consultation as a sham. I

also said I wished those meetings

1:43:321:43:37

could have happened at the end of

February this year instead after the

1:43:371:43:40

winter crisis, the flu, the

norovirus had bitten as they are

1:43:401:43:44

doing now. The CCGs tried to pull

the plug on Bradwell in the autumn

1:43:441:43:51

of 2016 but had to keep it open

another six months to cope with the

1:43:511:43:55

winter crisis last year. As late as

November they were saying that there

1:43:551:43:59

were no plans to reopen it but in

December and inevitable vault Fass

1:43:591:44:04

happened. Madam Deputy Speaker, this

is no way to run and plan a health

1:44:041:44:09

service, lurching from crisis to

crisis and is not just MPs and local

1:44:091:44:12

campaigners, patients and their

families are the same. Last year

1:44:121:44:17

working with local councillors,

Charlotte Atkins in Staffordshire

1:44:171:44:19

County, the indefatigable Joan Bell

in the Stoke who reformed local

1:44:191:44:26

care, chaired by the counsellor from

Newcastle succeeded in getting our

1:44:261:44:31

closures referred to the Secretary

of State. Before Christmas the

1:44:311:44:35

Independent reconfiguration panel

gave their advice and that was

1:44:351:44:37

damning against the CCGs. That

verdict was given Madam Deputy

1:44:371:44:42

Speaker on the 18th of October, well

before the winter crisis. We thought

1:44:421:44:47

he would have reacted, but one week

later the chief executive of our two

1:44:471:44:53

local CCGs was appointed to run or

six in Staffordshire. That is the

1:44:531:44:58

reward for failing in our area.

Things have to change, the Royal

1:44:581:45:01

Stoke University Hospital must be

given more investment, we have to

1:45:011:45:05

not something have more cuts,

otherwise next winter's crisis will

1:45:051:45:09

be even worse.

Dame Caroline

Spelman.

Thank you, Madam Deputy

1:45:091:45:17

Speaker. Unfortunately I had to rush

a family member to hospital last

1:45:171:45:20

Saturday afternoon at just the time

when my local GP surgery is no

1:45:201:45:25

longer open, so it gave me a

first-hand chance to see how the

1:45:251:45:28

winter pressures are being dealt

with. I have good news to share with

1:45:281:45:31

the House. My local GPs came

together this year and agreed to run

1:45:311:45:37

an urgent care centre at the

hospital with a doctor on duty 24/7.

1:45:371:45:42

On arrival we saw the noticed in

reception that the average waiting

1:45:421:45:45

time was three and a half hours, so

I settled down to see how it was all

1:45:451:45:50

going to work. The absolute key to

the smooth running of this front

1:45:501:45:53

line in health care was the triage,

Connery and efficiently a doctor and

1:45:531:45:57

nurse quickly assessed who needed to

be seen by whom and where. You could

1:45:571:46:01

either just turn up, or you could

ring 111. The honourable member for

1:46:011:46:07

Central Ayrshire is right, it needs

to be simple, just that simple,

1:46:071:46:10

otherwise people will go to A&E.

Sensibly Georgian and frail elderly

1:46:101:46:16

patients were seen quickly, so in

fact we were in and out of the

1:46:161:46:19

hospital in an hour and a half --

children and frail elderly patients.

1:46:191:46:23

And even directed to a pharmacy open

late at night by a forkful GP. I

1:46:231:46:27

want to place on the record my

thanks to the staff at Solihull

1:46:271:46:33

Hospital -- thoughtful GP. And for

the foresight of a CCG for

1:46:331:46:38

conceiving how to provide emergency

cover better, and I commend this

1:46:381:46:42

model to the House. Today's motion

states that the government has,

1:46:421:46:46

"Failed to allocate adequate

resources to the NHS." The fact is

1:46:461:46:51

investment in the NHS will increase

from 0.1 billion in 2015 to 120

1:46:511:46:58

billion in 2020, two billion more

than the NHS asked for in its own

1:46:581:47:01

plan for the future. The question of

how much money is needed is just as

1:47:011:47:06

important as how it is spent. It is

right to remember that we are not

1:47:061:47:11

the only country with an ageing

society facing these kind of

1:47:111:47:15

challenges, and in fact, it's not

just that we spend more than the

1:47:151:47:18

average of the EU, but new research

shows that in fact more than the

1:47:181:47:22

average for OECD countries on health

care. For all my 20 years as an MP

1:47:221:47:28

Labour have claimed that every

election that the Conservatives will

1:47:281:47:33

privatise the NHS and we haven't. It

is dishonest and it misleads the

1:47:331:47:38

public. Worrying them unduly, and it

distorts the view of young people

1:47:381:47:42

who don't yet have the years of

experience of Conservatives

1:47:421:47:46

consistently putting more money into

health care, so I'm glad the Prime

1:47:461:47:49

Minister has given the Secretary of

State additional responsibility for

1:47:491:47:54

social care, because every grown-up

politician in this House knows that

1:47:541:47:57

you can't solve the problems of the

NHS without also working out how to

1:47:571:48:01

get people out of hospital in a

timely fashion and properly

1:48:011:48:07

supported in the community. Our

attempts to tackle that funding

1:48:071:48:10

issue were discredited at the

general election when our policy was

1:48:101:48:14

caricatured as a dementia tax, and

what that shows is no party will

1:48:141:48:18

crack this on its own without the

cross-party determination to do so.

1:48:181:48:26

I challenge the party opposite to

give up on the vote harvesting

1:48:261:48:30

approach to the NHS and support a

Royal commission on health and

1:48:301:48:34

social care for the sake of everyone

who needs it.

Imran Hussein.

Thank

1:48:341:48:43

you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I know

time is short and many honourable

1:48:431:48:46

member is want to take part in this

debate so I will go straight to the

1:48:461:48:49

points. Madam Deputy Speaker, there

is no doubt that this recent winter

1:48:491:48:55

crisis is as a result of the

Government's chronic underfunding of

1:48:551:48:58

our health service. I know it,

honourable member is on the side of

1:48:581:49:04

the House know it, and most

important, Madam Deputy Speaker, the

1:49:041:49:07

public know it. Even the government

know that the crisis is down to the

1:49:071:49:12

underfunding that has taken place

whilst they have been in power, so

1:49:121:49:17

we may ask if they know that it is

down to the underfunding, why are

1:49:171:49:23

they doing nothing serious about it?

The answer is very similar to what

1:49:231:49:28

they are doing with local government

funding. They are doing nothing

1:49:281:49:31

about it because all they want to do

is push their ideological agenda of

1:49:311:49:37

privatisation. They know that

hospitals will still provide

1:49:371:49:41

services, and under the Health and

Social Care Act they are forced to

1:49:411:49:45

put many contracts out to tender, so

they know that eventually, willing

1:49:451:49:50

or not, as bottles to turn to

private companies who can offer to

1:49:501:49:54

provide those services at cut rate

prices to the NHS, just one example

1:49:541:49:58

of this back door privatisation is

taking place currently in hospitals

1:49:581:50:01

serving my constituents, with

Bradford NHS Trust forced by

1:50:011:50:08

government budget restraints into

planning to set up a private

1:50:081:50:10

company. A private company to

provide services that are vital to

1:50:101:50:16

the people of Bradford. A private

company that will actively seek to

1:50:161:50:22

make a profit. Now, just let that

sink in for a moment. Hospitals

1:50:221:50:29

setting up private companies with

the intention to make a profit for

1:50:291:50:33

the hospital. That is how bad it has

become, with hospitals needing to

1:50:331:50:39

supplement their funding through

whatever means possible. It is just

1:50:391:50:45

a slippery slope from here towards

ever-increasing privatisation and

1:50:451:50:49

private company involvement in the

NHS. Hospital trusts are services,

1:50:491:50:55

but this government is turning them

into businesses. But the

1:50:551:50:59

privatisation will not save the NHS

from the ruin that the government

1:50:591:51:03

has eagerly forced upon it, and the

only way that private companies will

1:51:031:51:07

be able to offer cut rate prices is

by cutting employment rights of

1:51:071:51:11

staff and cutting corners. Madam

Deputy Speaker, this will not

1:51:111:51:17

prevent another winter crisis. It

will only encourage one with private

1:51:171:51:22

companies putting safety in health

services at risk. I am concerned

1:51:221:51:28

that the private company being

established in Bradford will put

1:51:281:51:32

safety at risk by lowering their

rigorous hygiene standards that are

1:51:321:51:35

in place by cutting cleaners and

slashing their hours. Health care

1:51:351:51:41

services should be provided by the

best operator, which in almost all

1:51:411:51:44

cases is the NHS themselves, not the

lowest bidder. So the government

1:51:441:51:51

need to recognise that the public

will not thank them for privatising

1:51:511:51:54

the NHS, because privatisation will

not solve the crisis in our NHS,

1:51:541:51:59

only proper funding at the level the

NHS themselves have said they need

1:51:591:52:04

will do that. But it has to be asked

whether the government want to be

1:52:041:52:09

thanked by the public, whether their

plans for the NHS are in the best

1:52:091:52:15

interests of the public, or whether

they want to be thanked by big

1:52:151:52:19

business and whether their plans are

in the best interest of big

1:52:191:52:25

business, as it is clear to me from

this crisis which one it actually

1:52:251:52:28

is.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker,

pleasure to follow the honourable

1:52:281:52:36

member for Bradford East. I would

start by saying that it is

1:52:361:52:40

depressing to hear the opposition

laying into the NHS, who are an

1:52:401:52:44

extraordinary group of people, real

people working day in and day out to

1:52:441:52:48

look after all our constituents when

their health needs support and

1:52:481:52:52

mending and I would commend all the

staff across Northumberland's health

1:52:521:52:56

care family who have worked so hard,

not only over the last few weeks but

1:52:561:53:00

365 days a year to look after all of

my constituents. The reality is that

1:53:001:53:04

much can be achieved to present a

winter health crisis as it's known,

1:53:041:53:09

but those impacts winter brings

through really good planning. I have

1:53:091:53:13

an unfair advantage in

Northumberland, Northumbria health

1:53:131:53:15

ketchup has been led and built to

what it is now through the great

1:53:151:53:19

auspices of Jim Mackie who will lead

to NHS improvement for a couple of

1:53:191:53:24

years to bring those skills across

the whole NHS and it is lovely for

1:53:241:53:27

us to have him back, so I thank

ministers for sending him back to

1:53:271:53:33

Northumberland. The reality is that

as a result of what has been 15

1:53:331:53:36

years of really intelligent senior

leadership planning. We have had no

1:53:361:53:40

blanket cancellations in

Northumberland and we have an

1:53:401:53:42

unchanged scheduled except for any

critical specific cases that may

1:53:421:53:46

come up. There are no clinical time

sensitive operations being cancelled

1:53:461:53:51

and most are carrying on as normal.

In November the trust decided to

1:53:511:53:56

transfer a surgical ward to general

medicine to ensure there was greater

1:53:561:54:00

capacity, thinking ahead for the

irregular changes that the winter

1:54:001:54:03

weather tends to bring. We also have

was no delay of transfer of care in

1:54:031:54:08

Northumberland thanks to the really

sophisticated planning set in motion

1:54:081:54:12

by Jim Mackie and his team some

years ago working with

1:54:121:54:16

Northumberland county council

directly, so that our social care

1:54:161:54:18

and health care works hand in glove.

It works, we are doing it in

1:54:181:54:24

Northumberland, and I urge every MP

to encourage their councils to build

1:54:241:54:28

that relationship, because it

genuinely works. I will also

1:54:281:54:31

continue to encourage the government

to make sure our accountable care

1:54:311:54:34

organisation is one of the first to

be signed and sealed, because when

1:54:341:54:37

we have that in place that holistic

health care family will actually

1:54:371:54:42

work for patients. Flu hit the North

East first but we are functioning

1:54:421:54:47

and coping well. Our statistics are

good with bed occupancy at 91% and

1:54:471:54:52

A&E waiting times at 95% yesterday.

Our nursing vacancies are at an

1:54:521:54:56

historic low of only 1%, again

thanks to planning, looking

1:54:561:55:01

forwards, positive recruitment

campaign and specific staff group

1:55:011:55:03

areas where we knew there would be

shortages, and as a result our

1:55:031:55:08

nursing agency usage is very low in

Northumberland. I continue to raise,

1:55:081:55:12

though, because nothing is ever

perfect, the thorny local issue of

1:55:121:55:16

community hospitals and our bed

provision, which at the moment is

1:55:161:55:18

lower than it should be, because

that will help to relieve pressures

1:55:181:55:21

for those delayed transfers of care

where we can make sure those who

1:55:211:55:24

have a level of vulnerability and

cannot necessarily go home, or

1:55:241:55:27

should not go straight home from the

Acute Hospital environment can do so

1:55:271:55:31

with the support that community

nurses across a rural patch cannot

1:55:311:55:34

give in practical terms in the way

you perhaps can in another

1:55:341:55:40

environment, community nurses cannot

get to as many places in a date when

1:55:401:55:42

you have miles and miles to travel

between patients. That is a critical

1:55:421:55:46

part of wired that must be part of

the new bigger social care model,

1:55:461:55:52

the social community framework. I

want to thank both the Prime

1:55:521:55:55

Minister and Secretary of State for

bringing the two together because

1:55:551:55:59

health and social care together in

one place will actually start to do

1:55:591:56:02

what we see in Northumberland

already and I would like to hear

1:56:021:56:05

every MP able to tell the same

positive story in the months and

1:56:051:56:08

years ahead.

1:56:081:56:11

Thank you. Here we are again,

discussing the latest winter crisis

1:56:111:56:16

in our NHS. Last year I stood here

and spoke of the horror stories I

1:56:161:56:24

had heard, staff working their

fingers to the bone doing the jobs

1:56:241:56:28

of three or four people, without

food, break or time to go to the

1:56:281:56:33

toilet. Here we are again with many

of the same challenges and none of

1:56:331:56:37

the fixes that were promised by this

government. First let me join with

1:56:371:56:41

my colleagues and say a huge thank

you to each and every one of our

1:56:411:56:47

hard working NHS staff, doctors,

nurses, receptionists and porters,

1:56:471:56:57

thank you from the bottom of my

heart. A special thank you to the

1:56:571:57:03

paramedics who rushed my dear dad

into hospital on 28th December. Last

1:57:031:57:08

year the government said the winter

pressure was down to more patients

1:57:081:57:12

being seen, this figure is rising

and why is sufficient resources not

1:57:121:57:16

put in place to deal with this? The

health Secretary stated that there

1:57:161:57:22

are more doctors and nurses than

there were seven years ago. I would

1:57:221:57:27

like to point out to him in my area

one of which, one of trusts has 230

1:57:271:57:38

nursing vacancies, compared to 110

last year. This is a different

1:57:381:57:48

picture than that painted by the

Secretary of State. Where he used

1:57:481:57:51

figures that the House of Commons

library say should be used with

1:57:511:57:55

caution as changes in the number of

staff can sometimes reflect

1:57:551:57:59

organisal changes and changes in the

structure of services rather than

1:57:591:58:05

genuine changes in staffing levels.

Staffing levels are so low at the

1:58:051:58:09

hospital trust that the CQC has

deemed them to be a risk to public

1:58:091:58:18

safety. I was critici last year for

asking for more money. Perhaps they

1:58:181:58:25

can tell us what the solution is. We

need more nurses. But more money is

1:58:251:58:31

needed to pay for nurses. The same

with doctors. There seems to be less

1:58:311:58:37

bed blocking and more needed in

social care and when more is given

1:58:371:58:42

to pay for Brexit than our NHS, I

feel it is right that those

1:58:421:58:47

questions are asked here. The real I

is ity is that NHS deficits are

1:58:471:58:58

rising and balancing the books

become bg impossible. The 350

1:58:581:59:01

million made available at the Budget

was no more Nan a than a drop in the

1:59:011:59:08

-- than a drop in the ocean. What of

the cost of cancelled operations to

1:59:081:59:15

trusts and to the spasht sms he -

patients. I know of one man waiting

1:59:151:59:25

for an operation to close his skull

after brain surgery this year. The

1:59:251:59:32

surgery isn't classed as urgent, but

it is completed he is at risk of

1:59:321:59:38

death should he bang his head

accidentally. So he rarely leaves

1:59:381:59:43

the house. Another person is wait

ing for a new knee and he has been

1:59:431:59:51

on sick leave for three months and

is suffering severe financial

1:59:511:59:56

hardship. As well as the cost of

cancelled operations, I have heard

1:59:562:00:01

stories of six patients squeezed

into four bed bays with no curtains

2:00:012:00:06

and no dignity, no lockers and no

bells. They're being given hand

2:00:062:00:10

bells or told to ask the patient

next to them to ring the bell.

2:00:102:00:14

Patients have been placed in store

cupboards and what has been become a

2:00:142:00:20

norm at this time of year...

Thank

you. I would like to start like many

2:00:202:00:28

by paying tribute to the primary

care staff, the GPs, the nurses and

2:00:282:00:36

the receptionists, and those working

in acute trusts in hospitals, mental

2:00:362:00:42

health staff and the volunteer who

we owe so much to as well. They are

2:00:422:00:46

a team and any part of the NHS is

weaker if one part is weaker, which

2:00:462:00:53

is why I welcome the change in the

Secretary of State's tiet that will

2:00:532:00:58

we have a Department of Health and

social care. A long over due move.

2:00:582:01:07

Looking at my own hospital

foundation trust, the increase in

2:01:072:01:12

activity in recent years has been

phenomenal, 83,000 more people seen

2:01:122:01:18

under four hours in 2016, compared

to 2009 and 2010. I pay tribute to

2:01:182:01:34

the enormous amount of work, there

are 166 more doctors since 2010. All

2:01:342:01:45

of which was welcome as the extra

winter pressure money. I spoke to

2:01:452:01:50

the director of operations this

morning, she told me it with Tuz

2:01:502:01:54

busiest new year we have seen in a

long time and that it had started to

2:01:542:01:59

two days before new year and gone on

up to this weekend. But things have

2:01:592:02:04

returned to a more normal basis and

while they do still have a number

2:02:042:02:11

contingency beds open, it is nothing

like it was over the new year and I

2:02:112:02:15

pay tribute to the way they coped

with very difficult circumstances. I

2:02:152:02:19

received a letter on Monday from the

east of England ambulance trust

2:02:192:02:29

saying on an average day they... I

have to say I would defy any

2:02:292:02:37

ambulance trust to be able to cope

with that adequately with that

2:02:372:02:42

significantly increased number of

calls and indeed I understand on the

2:02:422:02:47

days before and after they were also

the number of calls was topping

2:02:472:02:52

4,000 a day when the average is

3,000. I think our constituents want

2:02:522:02:59

us to tell it as it is and I had an

e-mail from a practice manager in

2:02:592:03:04

one of my surgeries saying that on

4th January there was a a six-hour

2:03:042:03:09

wait for a blue light ambulance. As

the Prime Minister apologised, I

2:03:092:03:15

would want to say absolutely as a

MP, I'm not satisfied with that and

2:03:152:03:20

we have to try to do better, not

withstanding the efforts made. Now,

2:03:202:03:28

we have committed to train 25% more

doctors, 25% more nurses and I

2:03:282:03:36

welcome the new nursing associating

and aprep is the ships. Prep is the

2:03:362:03:43

-- apprenticeships. Let me suggest

six areas that we can make progress

2:03:432:03:47

in. First, it is unacceptable that

10% of NHS England's budget goes on

2:03:472:03:55

type 2 diabetes, process on obesity

is vital. More process on the

2:03:552:04:01

getting it right first time scheme

that is saving billions will help as

2:04:012:04:04

well. I would like to make a further

plea to the treasury to make sure

2:04:042:04:10

that we stop GPs leaving, those on

the old pension scheme are...

2:04:102:04:16

Disfavoured by the tax treatment and

we have to drive through the

2:04:162:04:20

sustainability and transformation

part nerships s to integrate health

2:04:202:04:29

and social care.

Thank you for

giving me the opportunity to speak.

2:04:292:04:32

I have worked in the NHS since 96 as

a doctor, as in hospitals, as a GP

2:04:322:04:40

and a commissioner of services. It

feels like we are going back to the

2:04:402:04:45

nineties at the moment with long

waiting times, even before this

2:04:452:04:55

decision to suspend operations, we

were breaching targets and it feels

2:04:552:04:59

from a patient point of view as

though the standards particularly in

2:04:592:05:04

my constituency, the difficulty in

accessing an plans when somebody

2:05:042:05:08

needs one are deteriorating. I would

like to share two insights into the

2:05:082:05:12

problem and two solutions. My first

insight is whatever ministers say,

2:05:122:05:17

some of this is about the money. We

have seen a slow level of growth and

2:05:172:05:26

we have seen cuts to, as we have

heard, to social care funding and

2:05:262:05:31

cuts to public health budgets and a

long-standing underinvestment, isle

2:05:312:05:37

understand that is being reversed

now, but an underinvestment. It I

2:05:372:05:49

difficult to spend that money when

you get it at the last minute, you

2:05:492:05:52

have to get people to come in to do

to work. And I think if the money

2:05:522:05:58

had come earlier it would, we could

have put in better contingencies. As

2:05:582:06:03

well as being about money, it is

about the wrong strategy. There has

2:06:032:06:10

been planning for reactive services,

but we have been cutting prevention.

2:06:102:06:14

We have been doing planning for

health care services but not enough

2:06:142:06:18

planning for social care services

and we have been planning by giving

2:06:182:06:23

this emergency injection of cash

into acute hospital services and

2:06:232:06:30

cutting prioritising and fragmenting

community service and we have seen

2:06:302:06:34

5,000 less community nurses since

2010 and a 45% reduction in district

2:06:342:06:38

nurses. What I suggest, we need to

change the strategy and see a

2:06:382:06:46

strategy that focuses, we can't just

respond by providing more and more

2:06:462:06:50

acute hospital beds, we have to

focus on prevention, on good quality

2:06:502:06:55

community services and nursing and

social care and better palliative

2:06:552:07:02

care, more emphasis on screening. We

need to focus on poverty reduction

2:07:022:07:06

and deprivation. People living in

poverty are less likely to access

2:07:062:07:10

prevention and more likely to be

acutely admitted to hospital. I

2:07:102:07:18

include people with mental health

problems in that. While integration

2:07:182:07:21

is the right direction of travel, we

have to change some things about the

2:07:212:07:25

way it is achieved. Calling these

organisations accountable care

2:07:252:07:32

organisationings lends people to

think it is an idea from the United

2:07:322:07:35

States. Maybe public health boards,

something that puts the needs of

2:07:352:07:41

populations at the centre of health

care and planning and also the

2:07:412:07:45

leadership of the organisations, we

need to make sure they are focussed

2:07:452:07:49

on out of hospital care, not just

providing more and more acute

2:07:492:07:52

hospital services. There is a

fundamental contradiction while we

2:07:522:07:58

have section 75 of the health and

social care act that mandates

2:07:582:08:06

competition, that is a

contradiction. Huge praise must go

2:08:062:08:10

to the staff, I have done shifts

myself over the short recess. Huge

2:08:102:08:15

praise to the staff with the right

invest and proper collaboration we

2:08:152:08:22

can do better.

It is a pleasure to

follow the honourable gentleman who

2:08:222:08:31

qualified in 96. I think I have ten

years on him. I can't a remember a

2:08:312:08:37

winter where there was not talk of

pressure and we have to understand

2:08:372:08:40

this is no at new phenomenon. I

remember the bad winter of 2009 and

2:08:402:08:46

actually to be fair the very

positive way in which the then

2:08:462:08:51

opposition approached this and

helped the Government at the time in

2:08:512:08:58

the interests of not politicising

this. I think we need to give due

2:08:582:09:03

credit to managers within the NHS

who come up with flak, but this has

2:09:032:09:07

been a managed process this year and

take an great deal of input to make

2:09:072:09:11

sure we do the best we can to

disadvantage patients the least. I

2:09:112:09:15

would like to pay tribute to that

much-maligned group. The only way I

2:09:152:09:20

can see we can make this better is

running a lower bed occupancy rate.

2:09:202:09:26

That is OK but it has opportunity

costs on it. The reality of doing

2:09:262:09:32

such a thing which would avoid the

cancellations we have seen this

2:09:322:09:36

winter as in any winter, are quite

severe. I don't think many members

2:09:362:09:42

would wish to see those things. That

brings me on to the common wealth

2:09:422:09:49

fund that was quote ed by the Prime

Minister. All the points they look

2:09:492:09:59

at do well with the NHS. But the

problem is the last one. And that is

2:09:592:10:07

clinical outcomes where we run ten

out of eleven and eleven being the

2:10:072:10:11

United States. We do not do well

with clinical outcomes. We don't do

2:10:112:10:16

well with cancer or stroke or heart

attack and we need to do something

2:10:162:10:20

about it. And it is no good citing

OECD averages, we need to be

2:10:202:10:27

comparing ourselves with Denmark and

Germany and France and the

2:10:272:10:31

Netherlands, not with the basket of

country including with the EOCD.

2:10:312:10:36

That leads us to a debate about

resources and having talked of

2:10:362:10:41

management, we do need to address

resources for the long-term. I

2:10:412:10:47

support those who wish to see

planning on a ten year basis. Vital

2:10:472:10:51

to do so and to ensure we have the

funding in place for that for the

2:10:512:10:56

improvements with need to get the

outcomes up to the level enjoyed by

2:10:562:11:03

our peer group nations in western

Europe and not the basket we are

2:11:032:11:09

often compared W we have to take the

public us with. And we have to do

2:11:092:11:13

this cross party. None of the

decisions that will be made about

2:11:132:11:17

the future of our NHS in is in, the

70 anniversary year are necessarily

2:11:172:11:22

going to be easy and it is important

we do try to get some level of cross

2:11:222:11:28

party consensus. The way we do that

is to by establishing a body that is

2:11:282:11:34

above politics and that is where I'm

drawn to, by establishing a royal

2:11:342:11:40

commission and with all the problems

and we remember the other committee

2:11:402:11:44

40 years ago that debated matters to

do with the health service which

2:11:442:11:48

came up for a lot of

2:11:482:12:01

Such a body would be effective and

it seems the right and proper way to

2:12:012:12:04

deal with the future, particularly a

sustainable funding future of our

2:12:042:12:07

most treasured national institutions

and I hope very much that the front

2:12:072:12:12

bench will listen to those of us

across the party and particularly

2:12:122:12:18

this week the CPS recommendation

that we should have a Royal

2:12:182:12:21

commission set up in this 70th

anniversary year to consider the

2:12:212:12:25

future of our National Health

Service.

Eleanor Smith.

2:12:252:12:32

Thank you, Deputy Speaker, and thank

you to my Right Honourable friend

2:12:322:12:34

who has just spoken. As a nurse who

has worked in the NHS for 40 years I

2:12:342:12:41

know too well the effects of the

winter crisis. Yes, winter is the

2:12:412:12:45

time that the NHS bases pressures,

but the government have claimed they

2:12:452:12:51

were better prepared for this winter

crisis with their national medical

2:12:512:12:55

director explaining that they had

been preparing since last winter.

2:12:552:13:03

However, can this be true when the

government has announced they would

2:13:032:13:08

postpone nonurgent operation, not

only putting patients' physical and

2:13:082:13:18

mental health at risk but in also

creating a backlog of operation

2:13:182:13:22

which NHS staff will still have to

catch up on. Unison spoke out on the

2:13:222:13:29

handling of the NHS, only in

February last year. They also

2:13:292:13:34

highlighted the Government's promise

in their manifesto to properly fund

2:13:342:13:37

the NHS. A 2070 manifesto the

government pledged to give the NHS

2:13:372:13:45

the resources it needed. -- 2017

manifesto. In the Autumn Statement

2:13:452:13:49

they also pledged the NHS would

receive an additional 377 million to

2:13:492:13:54

ease the winter pressure. But what

they failed to disclose is that

2:13:542:13:59

although they provide funding, they

are also undercutting by asking the

2:13:592:14:04

NHS to make savings in some of their

areas. The funding they have

2:14:042:14:10

provided to ease the winter

pressures, where has it gone? Royal

2:14:102:14:16

Wolverhampton NHS Trust, which

provides services to the hospitals

2:14:162:14:21

in Wolverhampton cares for patients

from my constituency. They've been

2:14:212:14:25

working under increasing pressure

for over half the days between the

2:14:252:14:30

20th of November 31 of December in

2017. At Wolverhampton trust it has

2:14:302:14:38

been over 90% of bed occupancy. Also

one in six ambulance handovers were

2:14:382:14:45

delayed for more than 30 minutes

over the same period force of this

2:14:452:14:49

would not be happening if the

government claims the NHS is

2:14:492:14:52

well-prepared. There has been a

widespread outrage following the

2:14:522:14:58

winter crisis, however, NHS staff

have been highlighting the pressures

2:14:582:15:02

on the NHS throughout the year and

for many years. We have campaigned,

2:15:022:15:08

met the Minister, written articles

and help protests about the

2:15:082:15:11

Government's treatment of the NHS,

and the underfunding over the last

2:15:112:15:14

seven years. When will this

government face the facts that the

2:15:142:15:20

funding they have provided is simply

not enough?

John Howell.

Thank you,

2:15:202:15:28

Madam Deputy Speaker. What I don't

want to do is go through the list of

2:15:282:15:33

the increase in numbers of

operations that have been held by

2:15:332:15:36

the NHS, or the enormous Russia on

people wanting to be seen by the

2:15:362:15:47

NHS. -- enormous pressure. I went to

focus on the delayed discharges of

2:15:472:15:51

care. That is a very important

factor for increasing the throughput

2:15:512:15:57

of people through the health system

and it's also very important factor

2:15:572:16:02

in ensuring people don't go into

hospital in the first place. Derek

2:16:022:16:09

two ways in which you have done this

in Oxfordshire apart from future

2:16:092:16:14

planning for the NHS. The first

thing is in relation to the hospital

2:16:142:16:20

in the town of Hendley where I have

been amongst those that have been

2:16:202:16:26

active in trying to ensure that the

balance is right with social care.

2:16:262:16:34

-- Henley. The way we have done that

is to ensure that the hospital has

2:16:342:16:38

no beds in hospital. It has beds in

the neighbouring care home for those

2:16:382:16:42

people that urgently need to stay,

but the emphasis is all on

2:16:422:16:47

ambulatory care for which I have

worked very closely with the Royal

2:16:472:16:52

College of Physicians. Ambulatory

care is the treatment of patients in

2:16:522:16:54

their own homes, and more and more

patients now understand that they

2:16:542:17:00

can get the right sort of treatment

in their own homes and they don't

2:17:002:17:03

have to spend time in hospital. This

has been taken on the best of

2:17:032:17:09

medical advice and I'm very grateful

for the doctors that have come

2:17:092:17:15

forward to support that whole

approach. I do invite one of the

2:17:152:17:20

ministers to come and see the

hospital and how it works for

2:17:202:17:25

themselves. The second thing that I

would like to stress is the work

2:17:252:17:30

that we do cross-party within the

county with all the MPs that are

2:17:302:17:36

represented in the county. I chair

the group of us that have a

2:17:362:17:43

relationship with the Clinical

Commissioning Group. Not so much to

2:17:432:17:47

hold them to account, but to make

sure that they are focused on the

2:17:472:17:50

things that they say they are going

to be focused on. One of those great

2:17:502:17:56

focuses that it has achieved is its

focus on delayed discharges of care.

2:17:562:18:03

If I just go through a couple of the

figures, you can see the enormous

2:18:032:18:08

achievement they have made over the

course of the past year in planning

2:18:082:18:13

for the better treatment of delayed

discharges of care. At the end of

2:18:132:18:20

December the number of Oxfordshire

patients who would fall into the

2:18:202:18:25

delayed discharges of care at 96. In

May last year that number was 181.

2:18:252:18:35

That is a magnificent achievement,

it's almost half the delayed

2:18:352:18:39

discharges of care, so when

ministers hear the figure of half,

2:18:392:18:44

it's not half increase, it's half

decrease in the number of people

2:18:442:18:49

that are up for delayed charges of

care. This has been done by making

2:18:492:18:53

sure that the right resources are

there for patients who need them to

2:18:532:18:57

return home, and not due to people

going home without the support that

2:18:572:19:01

they need. And finally, let me just

comment on The Times newspaper story

2:19:012:19:09

about the Churchill Hospital this

morning. I have a statement from the

2:19:092:19:12

Churchill Hospital which says that

it has not implement any changes to

2:19:122:19:19

cancer treatment whatsoever, and I'm

very happy to put this letter in the

2:19:192:19:25

library for the future for members

to read.

Mike Hill.

Thank you, Madam

2:19:252:19:32

Deputy Speaker, a pleasure to follow

on from my very thorough and Leonard

2:19:322:19:36

friends. On Monday I asked the

ministers of state what the

2:19:362:19:39

government were doing over the

crisis in the Ambulance Service --

2:19:392:19:42

learned friends. His was dumber

response was the new ambulance

2:19:422:19:47

response programme has been

introduced to deal with category one

2:19:472:19:50

cause more rapidly. The reality is

that two months after the so-called

2:19:502:19:54

improvements were put in place in

the north-east, an elderly

2:19:542:19:58

constituent of mine waited 14 hours

for an ambulance having collapsed in

2:19:582:20:01

his own home on New Year's Day. Last

week in the ICU of North Tees

2:20:012:20:08

Hospital Stockton, two people die

from influenza on the same day, one

2:20:082:20:11

of them again was a constituent of

mine. On New Year's Eve I attended

2:20:112:20:18

urgent care at Hartlepool hospital

and in the emulator E K unit in

2:20:182:20:21

Stockton with my son the car park

was full, the sick were presenting

2:20:212:20:26

thick and fast and the ambulances

were once again backed up. When will

2:20:262:20:32

the government admit that this is

not a winter crisis, it is a crisis

2:20:322:20:35

in our NHS. Macro. And a crisis of

their own making?

2:20:352:20:42

Damien Moore.

Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I'm

2:20:432:20:48

pleased to be able to contribute to

this debate today. Although the

2:20:482:20:52

opposition, has, as expected, used

this to weaponise our NHS I want to

2:20:522:20:59

take this opportunity to praise it

and all of those who work in it,

2:20:592:21:02

particularly in my own constituency

where the staff at Southport

2:21:022:21:06

Hospital are professional, dedicated

and hard-working. There will always

2:21:062:21:09

be times when I NHS comes under

great and winter is one of those

2:21:092:21:13

times, that's why in 2017 the

government and NHS began preparing

2:21:132:21:17

the winter earlier than ever before.

In the autumn of last year the

2:21:172:21:22

Secretary of State visited my local

hospital and had a meeting with me

2:21:222:21:25

and the interim Chief Executive

where we talked through the plans

2:21:252:21:28

that have been put in place for the

coming winter, as well as paying

2:21:282:21:33

tribute to excellent staff who

worked hard and continue to do so.

2:21:332:21:37

Those preparations involved working

with a range of partner

2:21:372:21:40

organisations, including the local

cynical commissioning group of the

2:21:402:21:44

local authority, as well as the

emergency services, providing better

2:21:442:21:49

joined up thinking, which provides

better care for patients. Although

2:21:492:21:53

the deferment of elective operations

is never ideal, fewer were deferred

2:21:532:22:00

and in previous years, a fact that

should be welcomed, and I am certain

2:22:002:22:03

that this will improve the coming

years. It's important to remember

2:22:032:22:07

that we have a record of continuous

investment in the NHS. Even though

2:22:072:22:11

we have been faced with

extraordinarily difficult

2:22:112:22:15

circumstances. The Department of

Health's budget has been protected

2:22:152:22:18

since 2010 and continues to rise. We

can only spend more on the NHS when

2:22:182:22:24

we have a strong economy, something

which we clearly would not have

2:22:242:22:29

under Labour. These numbers speak

for themselves. Our investment in

2:22:292:22:32

the NHS will rise from 101 billion

in 2015, to 120 billion by 2,020 and

2:22:322:22:39

research from the Nuffield Trust

shows the UK spends well above the

2:22:392:22:43

UK average. I must welcome the

government's multi-million pound

2:22:432:22:48

investment in Southport District

Hospital over this winter and was

2:22:482:22:52

delighted when Southport and

Ormskirk trust was granted an

2:22:522:22:55

additional 1.3 to 6 million in

funding to help cope with winter

2:22:552:23:00

pressures. Southport Hospital and

the wider health system has prepared

2:23:002:23:04

early and more extensively than ever

before for this winter and the focus

2:23:042:23:08

on ensuring the right numbers of

doctors and nurses, increasing bed

2:23:082:23:12

availability, as well as making sure

there is strong social and community

2:23:122:23:16

support able to help discharge

patients as quickly as possible from

2:23:162:23:22

hospital. The extra funding was

announced as part of a £337 million

2:23:222:23:27

in media boost for NHS hospitals

this winter in the recent budget,

2:23:272:23:31

and in addition to next 2.8 billion

investment over the next two years.

2:23:312:23:35

This of course was welcome news for

Southport patients and residents. We

2:23:352:23:40

all want to know that the NHS is

therefore as. Our families, whenever

2:23:402:23:45

we need it. I'm pleased the

government has given the NHS extra

2:23:452:23:48

support at this critical time of

year when cold weather and flu can

2:23:482:23:52

increase the pressure is on

hard-working hospital staff. A

2:23:522:23:55

constituent of mine recently

contacted me to tell me about the

2:23:552:23:58

excellent treatment that his elderly

mother had received at Southport

2:23:582:24:02

Hospital over the Christmas period

after she suffered a serious health

2:24:022:24:06

scare. His mother and his family

were unanimous in their praise for

2:24:062:24:10

the paramedics who brought her to

the hospital for the nurses who

2:24:102:24:14

treated her with unparalleled

kindness, and the doctors who sought

2:24:142:24:16

to get her back to full health as

soon as possible. His mother said we

2:24:162:24:21

could not have asked for more. It is

my pleasure to put on the record my

2:24:212:24:25

sincere thanks from them to my Right

Honourable friend, the Secretary of

2:24:252:24:29

State, and now of course of social

care, and I'm sure he will make a

2:24:292:24:33

success of that job as he has done

in health. It remains for me to say,

2:24:332:24:38

Madam Deputy Speaker, that it is

ultimately thanks to our strong

2:24:382:24:41

economy that we can make this extra

investment in the NHS, show the NHS

2:24:412:24:46

is the institution that makes us the

most proud.

Liz Kendall.

Thank you,

2:24:462:24:53

Madam Deputy Speaker. I'm afraid too

much of what we have heard from

2:24:532:24:56

ministers and some members opposite

has tried to pass off the presses in

2:24:562:25:01

the NHS that we are seeing is just

what happens every year. I've worked

2:25:012:25:06

with the NHS for around 20 years

now, and let me tell you, they

2:25:062:25:13

aren't. Cancelling operations for a

whole month is extremely serious. In

2:25:132:25:17

one week alone 300 operations have

been cancelled in Leicester,

2:25:172:25:25

including four patients like

80-year-old Kenneth Roberts, who was

2:25:252:25:28

due to have his hip operation

tomorrow. He's in so much pain he is

2:25:282:25:33

on liquid morphine, he has to use

crutches or a wheelchair to get

2:25:332:25:37

about, and his wife Jenny is

physically and mentally exhausted

2:25:372:25:40

too. One of the real problems, or

the real absences I've seen, is any

2:25:402:25:46

acknowledgement from ministers about

the huge knock on effect,

2:25:462:25:50

rescheduling a whole month's worth

of operations will have. It will

2:25:502:25:56

simply make existing patients

already on the waiting list wait

2:25:562:25:58

even longer too, and it will be

very, very difficult to bring back

2:25:582:26:02

down.

2:26:022:26:07

As My Honourable Friend, the member.

In South said, some of us on this

2:26:072:26:11

side of the House have a terrible

sense of deja vu, we remember the

2:26:112:26:17

1990s, ambulances during up outside

A&E and patients languishing for

2:26:172:26:23

years on the waiting list. And we've

had the outcry from some right-wing

2:26:232:26:26

commentators that the NHS can no

longer survive as a service free at

2:26:262:26:32

the point of use, I'm afraid we have

seen that coming back again all too

2:26:322:26:36

soon. The point is, we're not

dealing with the long-term

2:26:362:26:41

underlying demands on health and

care services, our ageing

2:26:412:26:47

population, more people living with

one or two chronic conditions who

2:26:472:26:51

desperately need more preventative

services in the community and huge

2:26:512:26:55

technical advances, too. Yes, the

government talks about that but they

2:26:552:26:59

do not understand the scale of the

challenge of the response required.

2:26:592:27:03

The truth is, since 2010, the NHS

has had an average annual increase

2:27:032:27:09

in real terms of 1%, compared to

three and a half %, historically and

2:27:092:27:16

5.5% under the last Labour

government. On top of that, huge

2:27:162:27:20

cuts to social care and I have to

say, dreadful, wasteful, pointless

2:27:202:27:29

reorganisation which has given

reform a bad name and unless the

2:27:292:27:32

government changes course, we will

see increased rationing by waiting

2:27:322:27:37

in the NHS leaving thousands of

patients in pain and distress and

2:27:372:27:41

increasing rationing by eligibility

criteria in social care leaving

2:27:412:27:46

millions of elderly and disabled

people without any support at all.

2:27:462:27:49

That is not what the people of this

country want. The government needs

2:27:492:27:53

to put in place a bold ten year

strategy for an investment and

2:27:532:27:59

reform for both the NHS and social

care. They should drop the idea of a

2:27:592:28:06

separate social care green paper.

You can't look at the two

2:28:062:28:09

separately, and they should heed

calls from backbenchers for a

2:28:092:28:13

cross-party convention. I'm worried

about the idea of a Royal

2:28:132:28:18

commission. I think that would take

too long. We know what the options

2:28:182:28:21

are for investment and reform. We

need to get on with the job. I would

2:28:212:28:25

suggest a short per 6-8 month

process to get cross-party

2:28:252:28:32

agreement, particularly on funding

for social care because any party

2:28:322:28:35

that comes up with a substantial

proposal risks being obliterated by

2:28:352:28:39

their opponents and because we need

a proposal for funding that will

2:28:392:28:44

last, whichever government will be

in power. On the 70th anniversary of

2:28:442:28:50

the NHS, I urge the government to

Act.

It is with regret that members

2:28:502:28:57

opposite have continued to

politicise this issue. As someone

2:28:572:28:59

who has worked in the NHS for 20

years myself, I have worked in a & B

2:28:592:29:07

under winter pressures whenever

amulet is queueing round the block

2:29:072:29:10

under the last Labour government,

when major incidents had been

2:29:102:29:12

declared because we could not take

any more patients, when there were

2:29:122:29:18

patients in corridors, and lino

floors in makeshift mattresses and

2:29:182:29:21

to continue to blame one government

or the other does nothing for

2:29:212:29:25

patients or staff, because that is a

road B continue down we will be here

2:29:252:29:29

not next year or the year after but

five, ten, 15 years' time. It is not

2:29:292:29:34

just about throwing money at the

problem. We have erred in the debate

2:29:342:29:42

today, and yet they are also facing

pressures in Wales this winter with

2:29:422:29:48

8% more funding per person, so it is

not just about the funding, it is

2:29:482:29:52

about what is done with money. I

would pay tribute to my local health

2:29:522:29:58

service. In the debate this time

last year, I stood here and said,

2:29:582:30:01

why is my two trusts in my

constituency and not coping when the

2:30:012:30:07

neighbouring trusts in Worthing has

been able to cope with all of the

2:30:072:30:11

patients that they needed to? And I

am proud that one year later after

2:30:112:30:15

both of those hospitals were placed

in special measures, after the CQC

2:30:152:30:21

are put in the resources and a new

management team in place, both of my

2:30:212:30:24

local hospitals, despite a 6%

increase during the long winter

2:30:242:30:30

period, have been able to cope with

an 11% increase in the number of

2:30:302:30:35

patients not just visiting A&E but

being admitted, they have not had to

2:30:352:30:40

cancel mass operations, they've not

had to cancel appointments in the

2:30:402:30:44

hospital, they have not had patients

in corridors, they have not had

2:30:442:30:47

ambulances queueing round the block.

This tells me it is not just about

2:30:472:30:51

how much money you put into the

service but about what you do with

2:30:512:30:55

that money. Let's look briefly at

what they have done in my local

2:30:552:30:57

trust, to stop this crisis. That

seems to have happened in other

2:30:572:31:03

parts of the country. The NHS staff

is the doctors, nurses, porters and

2:31:032:31:10

Angevin staff that have worked

tirelessly throughout that period,

2:31:102:31:13

and I pay tribute to them --

ambulance staff. It is also bad

2:31:132:31:18

management and the new teams in

Eastbourne and Brighton have done

2:31:182:31:22

tremendously well to turn those

services round. -- it is also about

2:31:222:31:26

management. It is also about

planning. My local community trust

2:31:262:31:31

has seen a 30% reduction in delayed

discharges, which meant that they

2:31:312:31:37

were about 84% occupancy in the

acute hospitals going into the

2:31:372:31:40

winter period. That is why working

together with community services,

2:31:402:31:45

you don't need a major

reorganisation of government

2:31:452:31:49

department, you can do it by working

well locally, and that is what they

2:31:492:31:53

are doing. It is also about working

with social services and social

2:31:532:31:56

care. Opening up for the community

beds in New Haven has taken huge

2:31:562:32:02

pressure off the local hospitals and

both of my trusts have said has said

2:32:022:32:06

that the emergency money, £2 million

each hospital trust has enabled them

2:32:062:32:12

to keep those community beds opened

and enabled patients to be admitted

2:32:122:32:17

to the acute centre and move to a

Community Hospital and then be

2:32:172:32:20

discharged safely and securely. So

then we do need to look at capacity,

2:32:202:32:26

if we are going to see,

year-on-year, an 11% increase in the

2:32:262:32:31

number of patients, that isn't just

about providing more money but about

2:32:312:32:37

how the services delivering. My

local trusts have done it and there

2:32:372:32:40

is no reason why that can't happen

around the rest of the country and,

2:32:402:32:44

once again, the Brighton and

Eastbourne hospitals, I pay huge

2:32:442:32:47

tribute them.

The crisis in the NHS

in the winter is real, and patients

2:32:472:32:56

and NHS staff are feeling the

affects. We have seen thousands of

2:32:562:32:58

operations cancelled, ambulance

crews and patients waiting in A&E,

2:32:582:33:03

in my constituency on Monday, 26

patients and paramedics were waited

2:33:032:33:09

more than an hour to hand them over.

From the 20th November to the 31st

2:33:092:33:14

of December we had a bed occupancy

rate of over 99%. This is not safe

2:33:142:33:21

and not acceptable. 19% had hand

over delayed for over 30 minutes and

2:33:212:33:28

8% delayed by over one hour. We have

heard of terrible ordeals suffered

2:33:282:33:33

by patients across the country and

NHS staff stretched to the limit.

2:33:332:33:38

Operations have been cancelled until

the end of January. It is estimated

2:33:382:33:42

that 55,000 operations will be

delayed. There is another crisis in

2:33:422:33:47

the NHS this winter that deserves

Parliamentary attention and that is

2:33:472:33:50

the government plan to make

regulatory changes to facilitate the

2:33:502:33:53

introduction of accountable care

organisations, lands for which the

2:33:532:33:57

government has failed to provide any

time for Parliamentary scrutiny on

2:33:572:34:00

the floor of this House. Accountable

care organisations and systems are

2:34:002:34:05

ideas imported from America. In the

US they have involved government and

2:34:052:34:11

private insurers, awarding large

contracts to commercial providers to

2:34:112:34:13

run and provide services. Of course

we all know the horror stories of

2:34:132:34:17

how expensive health care is in the

US, and how people have complex

2:34:172:34:21

conditions find it difficult to get

conditions and there are stories of

2:34:212:34:24

people with cancer being forced to

sell their homes to pay for their

2:34:242:34:27

own care. These horror stories are

real and we all have a

2:34:272:34:30

responsibility to be on our guard

against any introduction of private

2:34:302:34:34

health insurance models here, which

is why we must scrutinise these

2:34:342:34:42

ACOS, they have one budget to

provide Bruce Pacific population and

2:34:422:34:47

were satisfied they have no extra

money. They are in 44 areas land

2:34:472:34:51

rather than for the country as a

whole. It follows that an increase

2:34:512:34:54

in demand for health care and one of

those areas, as the result of an

2:34:542:34:58

epidemic or serious accident, then

the money is taken out of that,

2:34:582:35:02

squeezing the rest of the system for

health and social care. One of the

2:35:022:35:07

great strengths of the NHS is it

provides one large risk pool for

2:35:072:35:10

everyone in England to be supported

within it. Why would the government

2:35:102:35:14

committed to a National Health

Service juice to replace one large

2:35:142:35:17

risk pool with 44 local ones? Does

not make any sense. At the heart of

2:35:172:35:22

the issue is a serious matter that

ACOs will be non-NHS entity Sevigny

2:35:222:35:29

clarity from the secretary of the

state and we need him on the floor

2:35:292:35:32

of this House to answer some serious

questions. It seems logical to me

2:35:322:35:35

that these private companies, giving

that they have come from America as

2:35:352:35:40

an idea, and we know that the

Secretary of State considers the

2:35:402:35:43

American health care company to be

one of the best practices in

2:35:432:35:46

integrated care. If allowed to

operate ACOs will be given

2:35:462:35:50

multi-billion pound health and

social care budgets for ten years or

2:35:502:35:54

more, they were blurred about is

between health and social care and

2:35:542:35:57

as a risk we will see an increase in

attacks that people will be asked to

2:35:572:36:02

pay for. It will be in control of a

huge budget for the entire health

2:36:022:36:06

and social care needs of an area, so

it would have a huge amount of power

2:36:062:36:10

in determining what it does and

crucially what it does not

2:36:102:36:13

commission. I have had a lot of

correspondence from people in my

2:36:132:36:17

constituency concerned that the

introduction of ACOs are yet another

2:36:172:36:21

major step on the wholesale

privatisation of the NHS. My

2:36:212:36:25

constituents have expressed real

concern that, if the ACOs are set up

2:36:252:36:29

they will provide a means to

introduce private health insurance

2:36:292:36:33

models area by area, in a way that

they could not do on a national

2:36:332:36:36

basis because it would be

politically unacceptable. Let's have

2:36:362:36:39

no more talk of taking the politics

out of the NHS. It is a political

2:36:392:36:44

entity. People need to take

responsibility for their decisions

2:36:442:36:49

around the Health and Social Care

Act.

Thank you, Madam Deputy

2:36:492:36:55

Speaker. May I start by disagreeing

profoundly with the lady opposite?

2:36:552:37:02

As I health professional, a doctor

and has worked any health service

2:37:022:37:05

for the last 15-20 years, sitting

nearby the last few hours plus

2:37:052:37:09

listening to people on opposite

benches being negative, negative,

2:37:092:37:14

negative about the NHS has been

profoundly taxing to remain in my

2:37:142:37:17

seat. Firstly, either like to say

that I have worked in the NHS over

2:37:172:37:24

Christmas and the period, and I saw

people waiting, yes, waiting longer,

2:37:242:37:29

much longer than we would like them

too. I also saw a profoundly

2:37:292:37:33

seriously injured child who came in,

he had all of the very best

2:37:332:37:39

treatment. The people were

available, the equipment was

2:37:392:37:42

available, the hospital staff that

he needed all available for his

2:37:422:37:47

treatment. There were times a dozen

people around his bed and I am

2:37:472:37:50

pleased to see that he got the

treatment that enabled him to

2:37:502:37:53

survive. We need to get away from

just always picking out the negative

2:37:532:37:57

points, and remember that these

people that we talk about, the more

2:37:572:38:01

people that have been treated and

are surviving are real, genuine

2:38:012:38:05

people going on to lead long,

healthy lives and are pleased with

2:38:052:38:09

the NHS treatment they have received

from the millions of NHS staff that

2:38:092:38:12

work in the health service today and

will have been working on Christmas

2:38:122:38:16

and New Year's Day. In terms of

looking forward, what about looking

2:38:162:38:20

at what we can do to improve? I

didn't hear anything from the

2:38:202:38:26

Secretary of State, from the Shadow

Secretary of State in her speech

2:38:262:38:29

about what he was going to be about

to make anything better if he was in

2:38:292:38:32

charge. I will give way.

I do come

here with some suggestions. My

2:38:322:38:47

suggestions are, we know that the

over 75 Soomin Lee go to we know

2:38:472:38:52

that they are more unwrought than

they used to be, why don't we get

2:38:522:38:55

volunteers with medical experience

to go through every GP list and make

2:38:552:39:00

sure that the over 75 's are OK, and

urge them to turn up at their GP as

2:39:002:39:06

soon as they become unwell, and not

to wait until they get to the state

2:39:062:39:09

where they need intravenous drugs

and need to GOTO A&E?

I think you

2:39:092:39:18

might be mistaken on that because

the people most likely to come to

2:39:182:39:22

A&E are the under 19-year-olds, the

over 65 represent 20% of the

2:39:222:39:27

attendance at A&E, the vast majority

of people who, following the Red

2:39:272:39:32

Panthers, will require admission to

hospital, which is slightly

2:39:322:39:35

different group. People are waiting

for admission to hospital after they

2:39:352:39:44

have been seen, people are waiting

to be put forward, to be moved the

2:39:442:39:49

wards, so that the ambulances can

free up their patients and let them

2:39:492:39:54

be treated. I met the Secretary of

State earlier this week following my

2:39:542:40:01

work in A&E over the winter period I

noticed amulet screws waiting next

2:40:012:40:07

to the trolley with their patient to

be seen. They were not able to leave

2:40:072:40:11

until they properly handed over

their patient. That is very

2:40:112:40:14

important for care. Equally, we need

those ambulances back out onto the

2:40:142:40:20

streets to collect those patients

waiting at home to be picked up. And

2:40:202:40:26

we could do much better if we

cohorted these patients, and list

2:40:262:40:34

was coming in with one on board, one

can look after those patients was

2:40:342:40:38

the other two go out to see more

patients. It is not all about money

2:40:382:40:43

it is sometimes about inventive use

of money to create safe and

2:40:432:40:47

efficient protocols. Finally, I

wanted to talk about the

2:40:472:40:50

postponement of operations.

Postponement of operations is really

2:40:502:40:54

very upsetting. When you have waited

a long time for that operation, you

2:40:542:40:59

have psyched yourself up for the

pain and distress that you know

2:40:592:41:03

you're going to go through, perhaps

you are very nervous and fearful of

2:41:032:41:06

the operation itself. But when you

are essentially have an above

2:41:062:41:12

choices, either we say that we will

run the hospital at a very low

2:41:122:41:17

capacity all summer which is hugely

expensive to do an order that there

2:41:172:41:20

was lots of capacity ready for the

winter, war, we say we will not do

2:41:202:41:25

as much elective work over the

winter and then we're cancelling

2:41:252:41:29

operations that may not need to be

cancelled, maybe giving people more

2:41:292:41:33

notice that they might have been

able to have the operation, always

2:41:332:41:37

say to people, we will plan your

operation, but there is a

2:41:372:41:40

possibility that because this is the

winter, if it is acutely busy then

2:41:402:41:44

we might need to postpone it. None

of those situations are ideal. All

2:41:442:41:49

of them have pros and cons, what we

need to do is have an adult,

2:41:492:41:54

grown-up cross-party discussion

about the best way because

2:41:542:41:56

otherwise, whichever of those

options are chosen by the government

2:41:562:42:00

at the time, the other side will

criticise, and what we need to do,

2:42:002:42:04

as has been suggested by many on

both sides of the House, we need to

2:42:042:42:08

take the politics out of the health

service, recognise that the vast

2:42:082:42:14

majority of patients received

excellent care from the health

2:42:142:42:16

service, that it is doing more than

it has ever done before, and look at

2:42:162:42:20

how we improve those areas that do

need to be improved, together.

2:42:202:42:28

Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. It's

interesting to follow on from the

2:42:282:42:31

previous peak and I have to say

respectfully I wholeheartedly

2:42:312:42:34

disagree with her, she speaks of

some kind of NHS utopia but that is

2:42:342:42:39

not the reality of what I have seen

what I have been on our A&E front

2:42:392:42:43

line and respectfully I am an A&E

specialist and worked in the NHS for

2:42:432:42:47

the last 12 years. When you look

around the Aimi everything is on

2:42:472:42:51

display in high-definition, people's

pain, people's fears, courage and

2:42:512:42:56

hopes. The unfailing dedication,

expertise and strength of the staff

2:42:562:43:02

who work in them. And yes, the state

of the NHS, is in turmoil. It is in

2:43:022:43:06

crisis. Not only that, this crisis

is turning into a disaster. From

2:43:062:43:11

hospitals across the country, we

have heard this is not a surface

2:43:112:43:14

issue, or a temporary one, the

symptoms of the NHS crisis are all

2:43:142:43:20

connected and multiply into new

problems. You don't see it in

2:43:202:43:24

statistics alone, but you do see it

in the Aimi. They are completely

2:43:242:43:29

overcrowded. The reality is people

feel forced to come to A&E that

2:43:292:43:33

shouldn't even have to be there.

People who couldn't get a GP

2:43:332:43:36

appointment, people who had to wait

too long for a hip replacement and

2:43:362:43:40

are in severe pain. Together with

the emergency cases from heart

2:43:402:43:44

attacks took road traffic accidents,

strokes, it's too much for the

2:43:442:43:47

resources we have all stopped Madam

Deputy Speaker, the reality is

2:43:472:43:52

stark. Cubicles are full because

there is no space to move patients

2:43:522:43:56

onto the wards. The wards are full

because our social care system is

2:43:562:44:00

broken and woefully inadequate. When

all beds are full, you see

2:44:002:44:07

ambulances queueing up outside

hospitals. They are full of patients

2:44:072:44:11

who can't get hospital care. What do

you say to a mother or a father who

2:44:112:44:14

is in an ambulance with their child,

scared and anxious, who has to wait

2:44:142:44:19

outside the hospital for another

hour? That is what we are seeing and

2:44:192:44:24

that is the reality. The reality is

that doctors and nurses are too

2:44:242:44:28

stretched to do the jobs that we are

trained to do. We have been the

2:44:282:44:33

recipients of first-class education

and training in the UK and we are

2:44:332:44:36

unable to deliver the very thing

that we know to be true and to be

2:44:362:44:40

right, to treat the symptomatic not

just because. There is little time

2:44:402:44:46

for prevention. On New Year's Eve

when I worked in A&E, we had a

2:44:462:44:50

teenage girl who fainted. We treated

her, spent time talking to her, but

2:44:502:44:54

you know that we pride ourselves on

being able to find out the root

2:44:542:44:58

cause, is there an underlying eating

disorder, is she being bullied at

2:44:582:45:08

home or at school? To have these

conversations you need to build

2:45:082:45:10

trust and trust takes time. What

does that mean? If you don't it

2:45:102:45:13

means the patient is more likely to

return in pain because their

2:45:132:45:15

operation is cancelled. Fainting at

school furthermore, needing to be

2:45:152:45:18

part of Child and Adolescent Mental

Health Services. This all places a

2:45:182:45:23

burden on our already stretched NHS.

It won't change until this

2:45:232:45:27

government decides to live up to its

most sacred duty, the protection of

2:45:272:45:31

the health and security of us all.

The NHS is underfunded and

2:45:312:45:34

overwhelmed. I'd be delighted to

give way.

Does my honourable friend

2:45:342:45:40

agree that desperate patients should

never have to resort to smuggling

2:45:402:45:44

out secretly filmed footage of

trolley lined corridors with people

2:45:442:45:48

sitting on the floor, such as those

I've received from my constituents

2:45:482:45:51

visiting or working in the hospital

in Ashford?

I thank my honourable

2:45:512:45:56

friend for her point and agreed is

deplorable patients should feel they

2:45:562:46:00

have to do that. I must be clear,

the NHS's historic underfunding is

2:46:002:46:05

not an economic necessity. It is a

political choice, a choice made by

2:46:052:46:11

this government. That's why this

government will not change its

2:46:112:46:15

direction to protect us. So what

must we do? We must change the

2:46:152:46:21

government. Until we do so the NHS

will continue to crumble around its

2:46:212:46:26

heroic staff, who will carry on

giving their all, and with whom I'm

2:46:262:46:31

honoured to stand beside. You don't

see their work in the headlines but

2:46:312:46:34

in some of the most harrowing,

important, joyful moments of

2:46:342:46:40

people's lives. As NHS

practitioners, you can't always

2:46:402:46:44

change the outcome but with time and

resources you can change the

2:46:442:46:48

journey. It's time we saw a change

in our A&Es, in our hospitals and

2:46:482:46:56

Department of Health.

Simon Hall.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and

2:46:562:47:01

it's a pleasure to follow the

Honourable Lady, the number for

2:47:012:47:05

Tooting, and for what it's worth can

I thank her and as I thank my

2:47:052:47:08

honourable friend the member for

Lewes, the member for Sleaford and

2:47:082:47:14

North high command the medical

colleagues who spent time working in

2:47:142:47:17

our service in this period looking

after constituents. Their service is

2:47:172:47:21

second to none. Could I also put on

record my thanks to my honourable

2:47:212:47:27

friend a member for Ludlow, for the

work he has done in the department

2:47:272:47:31

command to welcome the new team and

to echo many colleagues' thanks from

2:47:312:47:35

around the chamber and across the

party from all geographies of the

2:47:352:47:39

country in thanking both our NHS

staff, the ambulance drivers, the

2:47:392:47:44

paramedics, and of course, those who

work in our county social services

2:47:442:47:48

as well, all of whom are trying to

play a part. I'm going to be

2:47:482:47:54

distracted slightly, but I am going

to take strong issue with the

2:47:542:47:59

Honourable Lady the member for the

Wirral West, who said with full

2:47:592:48:04

momentum theory that the NHS, and I

quote, is a political entity. And I

2:48:042:48:09

say to the Honourable Lady, with the

greatest of respect, it is not. The

2:48:092:48:14

National Health Service is a

publicly funded service, populated

2:48:142:48:17

and staffed by public service, and

publicly motivated, qualified medics

2:48:172:48:27

and others, who look after our

constituents and their health needs

2:48:272:48:31

free at the point of use. They are

not politicised. They are motivated

2:48:312:48:38

by care, and I would urge the

Honourable Lady, rather than

2:48:382:48:42

chuntering from a sedentary

position, to sit and reflect upon

2:48:422:48:45

her words, because I have to say I

thought that was one of the most

2:48:452:48:49

dispiriting comments I have heard in

my time in this House. And while she

2:48:492:48:53

is reflecting on her comments, she

might also wish to reflect upon

2:48:532:48:56

whenever the Treasury writes another

check for the health service, and

2:48:562:49:03

I'm sure practitioners will welcome

this as well, -- cheque. They always

2:49:032:49:08

have to take into account the £2

billion a year, £2 billion a year of

2:49:082:49:14

the PFI albatross bequeathed by the

party opposite. Now, I want to draw

2:49:142:49:21

attention to the importance, as I

did to my honourable friend the

2:49:212:49:24

member for Ludlow's statement on

Monday, to the importance of bedded

2:49:242:49:30

community hospitals. Dorset CCG

under the leadership of Tim Goodson

2:49:302:49:33

listen to our community campaign and

saved the beds in our Westminster

2:49:332:49:38

Memorial Hospital in Shaftesbury. In

my judgment, Madam Deputy Speaker,

2:49:382:49:42

the provision of those beds are

absolutely pivotal in providing the

2:49:422:49:45

link between the acute sector, as

people are making their journey to

2:49:452:49:50

recovery, and then on their way

home. And the collaborative work

2:49:502:49:56

between the NHS and Dorset County

Council, where there are social care

2:49:562:50:01

offices with computers are all

interlinked based, embedded within

2:50:012:50:07

the Westminster Hospital, working at

those discharge care programmes,

2:50:072:50:13

absolutely pivotal. I appreciate

what we're doing in Dorset is not

2:50:132:50:16

new and unique but also appreciate

it's not replicated everywhere -- is

2:50:162:50:19

not unique. It is married to some

attention. We should also focus upon

2:50:192:50:26

far better advertisements for the

use of our pharmacies, and ensuring

2:50:262:50:29

that our community pharmacies are a

much more collegiate network of

2:50:292:50:35

service provision, taking pressure

off both our GPs and also our A&E

2:50:352:50:40

sectors. I would urge the Minister

to ensure that CCGs are better

2:50:402:50:45

encouraged to make sure there is a

representative from the pharmacy

2:50:452:50:49

community on the boards of CCGs.

This silo approach doesn't help the

2:50:492:50:53

provision of care for our

constituents.

Thank you, Madam

2:50:532:51:00

Deputy Speaker. I'm pleased to

follow the member for North Dorset,

2:51:002:51:03

because I too want to touch on

transitional health care. But before

2:51:032:51:07

I do so I too want to acknowledge

the incredible, amazing,

2:51:072:51:13

professional care that is provided

across our health and care service.

2:51:132:51:17

The love and care is there, which we

all agree on, credible. But there

2:51:172:51:23

are clear challenges, and we note

those challenges. We have heard so

2:51:232:51:28

much in the evidence provided today.

It isn't just the long hours, it

2:51:282:51:34

isn't just the complexity and the

challenges which are placed at the

2:51:342:51:37

door of health professionals. It's

that stress of not having that

2:51:372:51:42

additional conversation that you

need to have. It's the stress of not

2:51:422:51:46

being able to treat somebody as a

whole person but only to be able to

2:51:462:51:50

focus on the real acute situation

before you. It's the stress of

2:51:502:51:54

trying to keep people alive as their

respiratory condition is

2:51:542:51:59

deteriorating and you can't get the

doctor down because you know they

2:51:592:52:02

are caring for somebody in an even

more acute situation. I know, I've

2:52:022:52:08

been there. I've worked in acute

medicine for 20 years and I know

2:52:082:52:12

very much how things have passed

over those 20 years and I agree with

2:52:122:52:17

my Right Honourable friends who hark

back to the 1990s. It was as it is

2:52:172:52:23

today a terrible state in our NHS

and it did improve when Labour put

2:52:232:52:27

the investment in the NHS, and we

can't deny that finances are at the

2:52:272:52:31

heart of what is happening. I want

to talk about bed occupancy, because

2:52:312:52:36

it is an issue for my local trust,

who has faced real acute crises over

2:52:362:52:41

this winter, and I commend them in

all that they have tried to do to

2:52:412:52:45

avert that situation, but we've had

multiple days of 100% capacity in

2:52:452:52:51

our acute medical facilities. We

know that the council have closed

2:52:512:52:55

care homes, we know that the trust

closed a transitional care unit. And

2:52:552:53:00

also we are sitting with an empty

Hospital adjacent to our Acute

2:53:002:53:05

Hospital sitting on land which NHS

property services is going to flog

2:53:052:53:10

off as opposed to seeing how it can

invest in better care for the people

2:53:102:53:14

of my community. We need to really

invest in the facilities that we

2:53:142:53:18

need, particularly around

transitional care for the future,

2:53:182:53:21

and I believe we should take a

complete review of what's needed

2:53:212:53:24

with regards to the NHS estate. I

also want to touch on the issue of

2:53:242:53:29

the influenza outbreak this winter

in York. It has had the most serious

2:53:292:53:36

impact across the rest of Yorkshire,

one of the worst in the country, and

2:53:362:53:40

therefore it has had a real impact

on staff, as well as obviously the

2:53:402:53:45

acuity and volume of patients coming

through the door. On top of that we

2:53:452:53:49

have had norovirus, DMV, vomiting,

also putting a challenge on the

2:53:492:53:53

system. We absolutely must have a

coherent public health strategy as

2:53:532:54:01

we move forward. Because, we know

there is social inequality, and who

2:54:012:54:06

gets access to having the

inoculations, but also we need to

2:54:062:54:09

make sure that we spread out a

proper strategy. That isn't

2:54:092:54:14

happening, and the fact that public

health is separated from acute

2:54:142:54:19

health is a failure and we need to

draw that together to make sure that

2:54:192:54:22

we have a proper public health

workforce in the community. I also

2:54:222:54:27

just want to touch on funding,

because my trust is in the cap

2:54:272:54:32

expenditure process and I'm still

waiting for a meeting with the

2:54:322:54:36

minister to discuss the impact of

that. But not having the flexibility

2:54:362:54:39

and resources that our trust needs

is having a serious impact on the

2:54:392:54:44

health crisis we are seeing in York.

We need to move the situation

2:54:442:54:48

forward to make sure we have the

resources where we need. We know at

2:54:482:54:51

the moment that the NHS is really

sick, and when patients are sick

2:54:512:54:58

they need solutions, and I trust we

will start hearing solutions from

2:54:582:55:01

the government.

Thank you, Madam

Deputy Speaker, it's an honour to

2:55:012:55:05

follow the Honourable Lady for York

Central and I would agree with her

2:55:052:55:09

entirely about looking very

carefully before the NHS sells off

2:55:092:55:12

property or land for non-health

uses. There is a reason why our

2:55:122:55:19

health facilities are in the places

they are and they could be better

2:55:192:55:22

used for things like intermediate

care. I had the honour of visiting

2:55:222:55:26

County Hospital in Stafford on

Christmas Day and sort the wonderful

2:55:262:55:29

care being provided there. That is

Stafford Hospital and Stafford

2:55:292:55:35

Hospital went through the Francis

inquiries and the trust special

2:55:352:55:42

administration, and I want to pay

tribute to the staff there who have

2:55:422:55:45

done an amazing job in really

bringing the hospital up to the

2:55:452:55:48

standard of which it is. We now want

to see more services put back into

2:55:482:55:54

that great place. But it's an

example of what can happen when

2:55:542:55:58

people really get behind change and

we see the patient and safety put at

2:55:582:56:04

the heart of care. I also visited

Royal Stoke on New Year's Day, and

2:56:042:56:12

my honourable friend for

Newcastle-under-Lyme and four Stoke

2:56:122:56:15

North, already mentioned the huge

pressures that the hospital has been

2:56:152:56:18

under over the past few weeks. I

would not deny that, I saw myself

2:56:182:56:23

the trolleys in the corridor, I saw

the real pressure under which the

2:56:232:56:27

staff were working, but I have to

say the care that I saw there was

2:56:272:56:30

exemplary under those conditions.

But as the honourable member for

2:56:302:56:37

Newcastle-under-Lyme mentioned there

are some serious issues which have

2:56:372:56:39

to be tackled, not least the fact

that I believe that Stoke and to

2:56:392:56:43

some extent Staffordshire are

systemically underfunded, if you

2:56:432:56:47

look at the figures. I will be

writing to the Secretary of State

2:56:472:56:51

about that in due course.

2:56:512:56:57

I would like to bring to the

attention allows some figures, not

2:56:572:57:00

recent figures but from an

international health organisation,

2:57:002:57:07

the WHI, four years ago, which asked

patients across a number of

2:57:072:57:11

developed countries whether they

could get proper divot -- prop --

2:57:112:57:15

proper access to good health care,

and the UK performed highest. Only

2:57:152:57:21

4% say they could not get good

access to reasonable health care. In

2:57:212:57:25

Germany it was 15%. In France it was

18% said that they could not. When

2:57:252:57:31

we consider the challenges that we

face and the needs of the future,

2:57:312:57:34

and I absolutely agree with a lot of

what has been said in this debate,

2:57:342:57:37

we must not forget how our NHS

performs and how it is an

2:57:372:57:46

egalitarian service, it provides

access to people of all backgrounds

2:57:462:57:49

across all our communities. I would

just like, finally, do agree with

2:57:492:57:56

what has been said on both sides of

the House, both by the honourable

2:57:562:57:59

member for Leicester West and the

member for South West Wiltshire, I

2:57:592:58:05

fully agree we need a cross-party

approach, a ten year approach, and

2:58:052:58:08

it needs to be done urgently and

quickly. This green paper on social

2:58:082:58:13

care is a start but it must be more

extensive than that, and I would

2:58:132:58:17

urge the Minister and his new team

as well as the Minister on the bench

2:58:172:58:22

who has done a great job over these

last few months to consider widening

2:58:222:58:26

the green paper to cover health and

social care, now that the department

2:58:262:58:32

is an integrated apartment and

social care is not just something to

2:58:322:58:37

be stuck on the end. Madam Speaker,

I wish to pay great tribute to those

2:58:372:58:42

who continue to work Day in, day

out, to provide some of the best

2:58:422:58:46

health care in world. It can be

better, and we must make sure that

2:58:462:58:50

it is.

It seems like yesterday I was

working in the NHS leading a group

2:58:502:58:57

of GP commissioners and every winter

preparing for winter. My experience

2:58:572:59:06

of preparing for that Act led me to

give up my day job and decide to

2:59:062:59:10

become an elected politician and

entered his House. My colleagues at

2:59:102:59:14

the time said, try to bring some

sense to the debate that goes all

2:59:142:59:17

that is often so uninformed. Today

we have heard some very

2:59:172:59:21

well-informed obligations and I hope

to offer some prospect of moving

2:59:212:59:25

forward. I will talk about the Act.

Its purpose was to modernise and

2:59:252:59:29

avoid future crises and to put

commissioning at the centre and rear

2:59:292:59:35

up and empower patients and give me

focus the public health and it has

2:59:352:59:39

categorically failed to do so on all

counts. What does the Act really

2:59:392:59:42

matter to patients? All the

reorganisation stake the ball. But

2:59:422:59:48

this one has been to an altogether

different league. Long-standing

2:59:482:59:52

problems persisted and necessary

changes put on hold as managers try

2:59:522:59:56

to put back the infrastructure that

was so wantonly destroyed by the

2:59:562:59:59

Act. In my constituency, South

Bristol hospital was a long-awaited

2:59:593:00:05

Community Hospital serving an area

of huge health needs, to support

3:00:053:00:09

chronic illness in the community,

working with GPs and an Urgent Care

3:00:093:00:13

Centre, and access to therapies.

Much has been achieved by those on

3:00:133:00:16

the pipeline, but the hospital falls

between five different NHS bodies.

3:00:163:00:22

This week a constituent highlighted

a problem when she was told an

3:00:223:00:24

appointment was cancelled because

the person was no longer in post,

3:00:243:00:28

she persevered with the booking but

they could not tell her if another

3:00:283:00:32

appointment would be forthcoming. I

have taken it up on her behalf but I

3:00:323:00:36

have the right to three of people to

try to find an answer, and members

3:00:363:00:40

now that is the situation across the

piece. No one body assesses health

3:00:403:00:45

needs, thought that the local

population and ensures that those

3:00:453:00:48

services meet meet the actual need

that this present in reversing

3:00:483:00:53

health inequalities. How do we move

forward? My own strong view now on

3:00:533:00:56

the way forward is that we need to

not just talk about the

3:00:563:01:01

superstructures over money, although

it is very important, we're at a

3:01:013:01:05

critical point. Rifat centralised

planning and control it didn't work

3:01:053:01:09

and the era of market and

competitions is also not working. We

3:01:093:01:13

need to put accountability at the

very heart of the system,

3:01:133:01:17

accountability can be a key driver

of change and improvement and it is

3:01:173:01:20

absolutely vital in a functioning

democracy. All of these bodies that

3:01:203:01:23

now exist spent taxpayers money but

no one understands who is

3:01:233:01:28

responsible and accountable and how

they spend that money, and that

3:01:283:01:32

includes this House, which is also

mystified. MPs are expected to stand

3:01:323:01:37

up for local services ensuring that

there are enough resources and to be

3:01:373:01:40

able to make a difference when

things go wrong. But we have no role

3:01:403:01:43

locally and how the mandate is

delivered, on the alignment of the

3:01:433:01:48

national budget with local delivery

and critically, neither the local

3:01:483:01:51

people. They don't understand how

the national taxes revert to the

3:01:513:01:54

local service. We are pivotal in

helping with that understanding.

3:01:543:01:58

Local managers should be supported

with during the great work they do

3:01:583:02:02

but also the reality of the cost and

quality with MPs and local people so

3:02:023:02:07

that we are informed, but that will

only happen if national leaders are

3:02:073:02:10

supported when they pull for the

Royal duty of candour, speak about

3:02:103:02:14

the revert the choices which

national leaders have done. It is no

3:02:143:02:17

secret that the money is allocated

is insufficient to be all that is

3:02:173:02:21

promised in the NHS Constitution to

the quality we expect. There was

3:02:213:02:25

evidence that we have the most

effective and efficient service in

3:02:253:02:27

the world with productivity are

stripping other sectors of the

3:02:273:02:31

economy. We should be putting the

public centre stage, understanding

3:02:313:02:37

what the money in the NHS can

deliver. We need to give the public,

3:02:373:02:45

the responsibility that goes with

the influence they have. Being able

3:02:453:02:48

to follow the money is a key part of

the accountability and we should all

3:02:483:02:52

be part of that to help inform the

next stage of the NHS.

There is no

3:02:523:03:01

doubt the NHS is under unique

pressures, with demand going up

3:03:013:03:05

every year, especially in a county

like Somerset where we have an

3:03:053:03:08

increasingly ageing population. It

is a great place but many people

3:03:083:03:11

retire there, so it increases the

problem. First and foremost I want

3:03:113:03:16

to thank all those working in the

NHS Taunton Dean. We have had an

3:03:163:03:24

extra £435 million invested in the

NHS to deal with winter pressures,

3:03:243:03:29

which is to be welcomed, as is the

new forward planning, and whilst it

3:03:293:03:33

is not desirable to have an

operation cancelled, the more notice

3:03:333:03:37

that one can have, the better. I

have personal family experience of

3:03:373:03:41

this and without a doubt, having

notice of this definitely helps. I

3:03:413:03:46

am now just going to focus on A&E.

The A&E department at Musgrove Park

3:03:463:03:53

hospital in Taunton, the main

hospital in Somerset has seen 60,000

3:03:533:03:56

people through its doors in the last

year, a huge increase. They have

3:03:563:04:01

nine consultants working and 24-hour

senior cover. I've contacted the

3:04:013:04:07

hospital chief executive this week

for an update on how they are doing.

3:04:073:04:10

He reports that it has been Xuli

busy, there have been record levels

3:04:103:04:14

of demand, it has had an impact on

waiting times, but that the staff in

3:04:143:04:19

the Department and the wider

hospital and in the wider community

3:04:193:04:22

have been fantastic in the way that

they have responded, often going

3:04:223:04:28

above and beyond. There has been so

much talk today about the inadequate

3:04:283:04:33

funding for the NHS and whilst that

is important, it is important to get

3:04:333:04:37

the right management structures in

place. And in this respect, I want

3:04:373:04:43

to highlight and praise Doctor Cliff

man, a senior consultant at Musgrove

3:04:433:04:47

Park hospital in the emergency

department. He has just been awarded

3:04:473:04:51

an OBE for his services to emergency

medicine. Through his time as

3:04:513:04:56

president of the Royal College of

Emergency Medicine, he lobbied

3:04:563:05:00

government to get changes in

staffing, and worked hard around

3:05:003:05:04

education in A&E. He came up with

and devised a special A&E hub, which

3:05:043:05:09

I think is an excellent model that

has worked well at Musgrove Park and

3:05:093:05:14

ought to be rolled out further. It

brings together in the emergency

3:05:143:05:19

department primary care, 24-7

support for mental health issues, a

3:05:193:05:22

seven day 12 hours a day community

pharmacy and a seven days a week, 14

3:05:223:05:27

hours a day in-house frailty team.

This is the model that I believe is

3:05:273:05:34

working. I just want to touch on

equipment now at Musgrove Park

3:05:343:05:38

hospital. The hospital is still

dealing with pre-1948 theatres and

3:05:383:05:46

intensive care units. There have

been plans to redevelop this since

3:05:463:05:49

the 1980s and we are still waiting.

In the autumn budget the Chancellor

3:05:493:05:56

announced a welcome £3.6 billion

investment in capital projects like

3:05:563:05:59

this. And I make no bones about it,

Minister, I am fully supporting this

3:05:593:06:04

campaign to get new theatres at

Musgrove Park. I know so many people

3:06:043:06:08

who would benefit from this and

indeed my own family have recently

3:06:083:06:11

been treated there. Make no doubt

about it, there was a top-class team

3:06:113:06:16

already working there, producing

excellent results, but they deserve

3:06:163:06:20

new and better facilities. They are

the only hospital I believe in the

3:06:203:06:23

South West without updated theatres.

So, please, would you support the? I

3:06:233:06:28

just want to touch on social care.

Linking it with health is essential.

3:06:283:06:35

Somerset County Council is facing an

impending very difficult situation

3:06:353:06:38

over social care. Anything that can

help them is to be welcomed. If they

3:06:383:06:43

can get them to the next pilot to

retain business rates, that would

3:06:433:06:47

help with their funding and finances

and dealing with social care.

3:06:473:06:52

Finally, I have got to uphold the

government for what it is doing this

3:06:523:06:55

winter. Things are better, Vezo was

more to do, but this government is

3:06:553:06:59

right behind the best NHS in the

world. -- there is always more to

3:06:593:07:03

do.

I want to pay tribute to the

incredible staff working in the NHS,

3:07:033:07:09

keeping the nation fit and healthy

is a noble calling. They make the

3:07:093:07:12

NHS what it is, a national treasure.

And they ought to be proud. Many

3:07:123:07:17

taking part in this debate today

will know of somebody who perhaps

3:07:173:07:21

would not be with us today or whose

quality of life would be

3:07:213:07:24

significantly worse, had it not been

for the NHS. On that point, I would

3:07:243:07:30

like to take this opportunity to pay

tribute to Callum Morris, an

3:07:303:07:36

11-year-old cystic fibrosis sufferer

and rendered my constituency who

3:07:363:07:41

sadly lost her fight -- Al Morris.

Her family have expressed thanks to

3:07:413:07:49

the NHS workers who looked after her

with such love and care right until

3:07:493:07:52

the end including support for her

parents, Bethany and Ian, and her

3:07:523:07:56

sister, Carla. Al was a pioneer of

raising awareness for cystic

3:07:563:08:03

fibrosis and opt out organ donation

and I would like to say how proud of

3:08:033:08:08

where we all are. Breathe easy, Al.

Oh, dear. Everybody has said all of

3:08:083:08:17

the facts and figures about this

debate, and I just, I will not

3:08:173:08:21

repeat them. We all treasure the

NHS. It needs to be funded. If I

3:08:213:08:27

moved to the end and say that my

constituents in Crewe and Nantwich

3:08:273:08:31

don't want the Prime Minister

apologise about the NHS crisis. They

3:08:313:08:35

want this government to Act and to

resolve the crisis by rewarding the

3:08:353:08:41

Health Secretary, and the Prime

Minister will have sent a clear

3:08:413:08:47

message about her vision of the NHS.

Madam Deputy Speaker, this is an

3:08:473:08:53

opportunity for members opposite to

prove that theory wrong by

3:08:533:08:57

supporting this motion. Today's

motion calls on the government to

3:08:573:09:01

increase cash limits for the current

year, allowing hospitals to resume a

3:09:013:09:05

full service to the public. Actions

speak louder than words, Madam

3:09:053:09:13

Deputy Speaker, and today we will

know whether the Prime Minister's

3:09:133:09:16

apology was sincere or not.

It is a

pleasure to follow the honourable

3:09:163:09:27

lady in this important debate, and

to discuss the NHS and the

3:09:273:09:31

challenges that it does tend to face

at winter. We should bearing in mind

3:09:313:09:36

that for decades winter has always

given the NHS challenges. Clinicians

3:09:363:09:41

have been asked not to take time off

in January, for decades, as a

3:09:413:09:45

result. I've spent time with a GP

practice last Friday. They certainly

3:09:453:09:51

confirmed that this flu epidemic had

been one of the worst they had seen

3:09:513:09:54

for many years. From the patient

perspective it is quite wrong that

3:09:543:09:59

those who have waited four months

for perhaps maybe routine surgery

3:09:593:10:03

that has an impact on their

lifestyle, should have to have this

3:10:033:10:07

cancelled. I believe that we need to

change, but by change, I think that

3:10:073:10:11

we need to change the entire

structure. It is all very well and

3:10:113:10:14

good for the opposition to try and

write checks that they know that

3:10:143:10:19

they would bounce, we have to reform

the NHS within resources that it

3:10:193:10:22

has. We have to look at the ageing

population, that we absolutely

3:10:223:10:29

embrace, but of course there is a

challenge grows to make sure that we

3:10:293:10:32

look after them. In the last decade

17% of this country would be severed

3:10:323:10:39

-- would be over 65, and in the next

decade it would be 30%. This may be

3:10:393:10:44

the reason why we are seeing

hospital admissions for the last ten

3:10:443:10:47

years go up by 40%. To me, Madam

Deputy Speaker, I am delighted that

3:10:473:10:53

the Department of Health also takes

care of social care, particularly

3:10:533:10:57

the reforms to social care. It is

long overdue. I believe we need a

3:10:573:11:01

cross-party approach. I am aware

that every governing party tends to

3:11:013:11:06

say that, but this time I would

please ask those honourable members

3:11:063:11:10

opposite the rally round. There are

great ideas that we can all get

3:11:103:11:12

around. Madam Deputy Speaker, the

key part I was to focus on and a

3:11:123:11:18

couple of minutes I have is the

pressures that are currently faced

3:11:183:11:21

on the GP practice and the pressures

that that then causes hospitals to

3:11:213:11:27

then cope with. Too many patients

are finding that they are going to

3:11:273:11:32

A&E because the GP surgery is not

there for them. I spent time the GP

3:11:323:11:36

who had just come back from a

patient, who he had made comfortable

3:11:363:11:41

in their home, he could have pointed

me to another part that my hospital

3:11:413:11:44

trust covers were that patient would

have been put into hospital and

3:11:443:11:47

would have been there for some

weeks. That is not good for the

3:11:473:11:51

patient and also not good for all of

those other patients waiting for

3:11:513:11:53

their care.

3:11:533:11:58

And of course we have seen huge

demand for care for the elderly, I

3:11:583:12:01

have concerns that the social care

system is set up very much on a

3:12:013:12:05

local authority basis. It goes

without saying there are many local

3:12:053:12:08

authorities where people retire to

where they don't have the same

3:12:083:12:11

business rates and we have a large

degree of elderly folk and not as

3:12:113:12:14

much business to fund them and

certainly not as much council tax.

3:12:143:12:18

When the government look at reform I

would like them to see of social

3:12:183:12:21

care should be on the same

3:12:213:12:32

footing as a centralised NHS system.

I won't give way because of time,

3:12:323:12:35

I'm so sorry. I'd also like to see

with regard to GP surgeries, is more

3:12:353:12:38

action, more powers being given

either to CCGs, or eight tier above,

3:12:383:12:40

for there to be some intervention

when there are GP practices that are

3:12:403:12:43

quite clearly not functioning as

they should -- a tier above. There

3:12:433:12:48

is no sharing of data so CCGs cannot

see where surgeries might fall over

3:12:483:12:52

so to expect the CCG to take over

when things go wrong I'm afraid this

3:12:523:12:56

is often when it is too late. I'd

like to see if there are task forces

3:12:563:12:59

that could be put in place. It's

clear to me that the GP model that

3:12:593:13:03

we continue with from 1947 is not

the same GP model that younger GPs

3:13:033:13:08

want to buy into. They don't

necessarily want to buy into the

3:13:083:13:11

practice model, they are concerned

about litigation and I don't want to

3:13:113:13:16

stay in the same place for all those

years. We need great reform and I

3:13:163:13:19

add my support of the voices from

the side and across that perhaps a

3:13:193:13:22

royal commission is the way to take

this forward.

Thank you, Madam

3:13:223:13:27

Deputy Speaker. I will come straight

to the point with the 92nd is given

3:13:273:13:30

to me. The truth is NHS staff said

this winter crisis was predictable.

3:13:303:13:38

One of the 24 trusts were at full

capacity. Patients including many

3:13:383:13:46

elderly and frail routinely stuck in

the back of ambulances waiting to

3:13:463:13:51

get into A&E. They have to cope with

an increasing demand while being

3:13:513:13:59

underfunded. We have also learned

that the medical centre is under

3:13:593:14:07

threat, 40% of walk-in centres

nationwide have closed under the

3:14:073:14:09

Tories since 2010. Budgetary

constraints and, but the human cost

3:14:093:14:22

of such cuts are catastrophic,

especially in places like Bedford

3:14:223:14:26

whose hospital is already struggling

to cope. I would like to finish by

3:14:263:14:32

thanking all the staff who worked

very hard through the Christmas and

3:14:323:14:35

gave their time rather than enjoy

time with family at Christmas.

3:14:353:14:43

Justin Madders.

Thank you, Madam

Deputy Speaker. We have heard a

3:14:433:14:50

number of excellent contributions

today, the depth of the crisis has

3:14:503:14:53

been reflected by the fact that no

fewer than 38 members put in to

3:14:533:14:56

speak and we heard from just over 20

backbenchers from all four corners

3:14:563:15:00

of England. Due to the time

constraints I will not be able to

3:15:003:15:04

refer to all of the contributions we

have heard this afternoon so I will

3:15:043:15:08

pick out a few of those from those

still working in the NHS such as my

3:15:083:15:12

honourable friend the member for

Stockton South, who said as someone

3:15:123:15:15

who works in the NHS it feels like

we're going back to the he also said

3:15:153:15:20

it doesn't have to be like this,

this decline is not inevitable and I

3:15:203:15:24

totally agree with him on that. Also

heard from my honourable friend from

3:15:243:15:28

Wolverhampton South West who brought

her service to the NHS to the fore

3:15:283:15:32

and made the valid point that

cancelling operations creates a

3:15:323:15:36

backlog, which is something that

will cause problems later on. We

3:15:363:15:39

know that many trusts fail to meet

their 18 week target. Perhaps the

3:15:393:15:43

most compelling contribution was

from my honourable friend the member

3:15:433:15:47

for Tooting who spoke as somebody

who has worked in A&E over the

3:15:473:15:50

Christmas period and was absolutely

right when she said that many who

3:15:503:15:54

attend are doing so because they are

not getting the treatment they need

3:15:543:15:56

elsewhere in the system due to the

squeeze on funding we have seen the

3:15:563:15:59

man she also made the valid point

that many people are not being

3:15:593:16:02

discharged as quickly as we would

like because of the massive cuts we

3:16:023:16:06

have seen to social care over the

years. Her contribution was

3:16:063:16:09

excellent and she made the point

that these conditions are not here

3:16:093:16:15

by accident, they are here because

of political choice has been made.

3:16:153:16:17

So, after two years of A&E targets

being missed they have shot up in

3:16:173:16:26

recent weeks and some hospitals

cannot see half of patients within

3:16:263:16:30

four hours at A&E. The Secretary of

State knows a bit wetting himself

3:16:303:16:33

after a gap of one hour 42 minutes

between entering No 10 on Monday and

3:16:333:16:38

Offermation being issued that he was

continuing his job. Perhaps he was

3:16:383:16:41

left waiting in a corridor. I hope

he was at least offered a chair. But

3:16:413:16:46

he would have to double that time

and double it again to begin to

3:16:463:16:50

appreciate just how long some

patients are having to wait, often

3:16:503:16:54

in great discomfort and pain.

Following the reshuffle on Monday,

3:16:543:16:58

the health and social care secretary

has now had a rebrand but it's taken

3:16:583:17:01

over five years to work out that his

actions might have some bearing on

3:17:013:17:05

social care, how much longer will it

be before he learns the message

3:17:053:17:09

about underfunding in the NHS is so

consistent because it is true? How

3:17:093:17:12

long will it be before he realises

that under his watch standards have

3:17:123:17:16

deteriorated almost on every

measure. How long will it be before

3:17:163:17:20

he realises the decisions his

government takes have led to the

3:17:203:17:23

litany of woe we have heard today?

There is no point... Yes.

I am most

3:17:233:17:28

grateful. The comment from an

emergency consultant at Charing

3:17:283:17:36

Cross, they were practising

battlefield medicine, by which he

3:17:363:17:40

meant as a blue light ambulance

arrived, they took somebody to

3:17:403:17:45

resuscitation or left them in the

corridor until the bed was free. Yet

3:17:453:17:48

the same hospital is facing losing

all of its emergency beds and its

3:17:483:17:54

blue light A&E. Does he think that

we need a rethink on further

3:17:543:17:57

reductions in beds and A&E capacity

given the crisis we are in?

I thank

3:17:573:18:02

my honourable friend for his

contribution and he's absolutely

3:18:023:18:05

right, there are many statements

that have been made for those

3:18:053:18:08

working on the front line about how

acute the situation is, we know that

3:18:083:18:11

bed numbers have rapidly dropped

over recent years, and I think the

3:18:113:18:16

worry is that under the STPs even

more beds might be lost. Going back

3:18:163:18:21

to some of the Health Secretary's

comments, he is denied there is a

3:18:213:18:25

crisis but did admit on Twitter,

does Tony Blair not remember his own

3:18:253:18:31

regular NHS winter crisis as well?

If we want to make a comparison with

3:18:313:18:35

Tony Blair I will help the House on

that. In the last winter under Tony

3:18:353:18:38

Blair between October and December

2000 61 in 50 patients spent longer

3:18:383:18:43

than four hours in A&E. In November

under this Health Secretary it was

3:18:433:18:48

one in ten. But of course, behind

every single figure is a vulnerable

3:18:483:18:51

patient who has been let down.

Patient like 87-year-old Esme

3:18:513:18:56

Thomas, who according to the BBC

waited 22 hours to be admitted to

3:18:563:18:59

award at Weston General Hospital, or

as we have heard the patients at

3:18:593:19:03

Pinderfields Hospital in Wakefield

photographed lying on the floor,

3:19:033:19:06

some of whom while still attached to

grips. If the best that we can offer

3:19:063:19:10

people who are ill as one of the

wealthiest nations in the world is

3:19:103:19:13

uncomfortable metal chair then

something has gone badly wrong. What

3:19:133:19:18

did the government say to the nurse

who told ITV News that there have

3:19:183:19:21

been times when she had spent whole

days treating patients in the

3:19:213:19:26

hospital car park? These stories

should shame the government into

3:19:263:19:29

action. But of course it's not just

those attending hospital who are

3:19:293:19:32

suffering at the moment, it's also

those who are not able to Carter

3:19:323:19:36

Hospital at all because 55,000

operations have been cancelled this

3:19:363:19:40

month. When she was asked about this

the Prime Minister said that it was

3:19:403:19:43

all part of the plan. Well, that was

all part of the plan why were the

3:19:433:19:47

operations arranged in the first

place? It is not a plan, Madam

3:19:473:19:51

Deputy Speaker, it is a shambles.

The human cost of this crisis is

3:19:513:19:56

devastating. Even before the worst

of the winter has reached us, there

3:19:563:19:59

is a one-year-old baby with a hole

in her heart having her life saving

3:19:593:20:03

operation cancelled five times and

her parents were told that their

3:20:033:20:06

daughter could have run into cardiac

arrest during the operation, so one

3:20:063:20:09

can only begin to imagine the

anguish those parents must have gone

3:20:093:20:13

to preparing for the operation five

times. What about the 12-year-old

3:20:133:20:18

autistic girl from my constituency

who have the operation to remove her

3:20:183:20:21

tonsils postponed, she has had a

bouts of infection in the last year

3:20:213:20:25

because of her autism that the delay

to her operation has caused MS IT.

3:20:253:20:28

It was a huge deal to build her up

for the operation after her

3:20:283:20:32

preoperative assessment,

particularly with the prospect of

3:20:323:20:34

spending a night in hospital but

after the cancellation she is

3:20:343:20:37

anxious that when she gets to the

new operation date that will be

3:20:373:20:40

cancelled as well. If leaving these

children anxious and in paint was

3:20:403:20:43

part of the plan then it is a plan

this government should be ashamed

3:20:433:20:46

of. Across a whole range of

indicators, the NHS has experienced

3:20:463:20:51

its worst performance since records

began, that was before we headed

3:20:513:20:55

into this winter. Let's be clear, I

do not hold for a second the people

3:20:553:20:59

who work on the front line

responsible for this, indeed, it is

3:20:593:21:03

only through their dedication that

the health service keeps going,

3:21:033:21:05

despite the best efforts of this

government to destroy staff morale,

3:21:053:21:10

be it an entire generation of junior

doctors alienate it, the next

3:21:103:21:14

generation of nurses deterred from

entering the profession by tuition

3:21:143:21:17

fees, or thousands of staff

up-and-down the country who are

3:21:173:21:19

frankly fed up of rotor gaps, pay

restraints and meaningless

3:21:193:21:24

platitudes from this government, it

only this afternoon we hear the CQC

3:21:243:21:27

are postponing routine inspections,

presumably because they know there

3:21:273:21:30

is a winter crisis on. This is an

unprecedented step which surely

3:21:303:21:34

sends a huge signal to the

government that this isn't just

3:21:343:21:38

normal winter pressures. Let's hear

from some of the staff working on

3:21:383:21:40

the front line, Aimi Doctor Aidan

Harrop claims the NHS had never been

3:21:403:21:47

better prepared were misleading,

disingenuous nonsense -- Aimi Doctor

3:21:473:21:51

full-size of the system I be working

in has been under resourced,

3:21:513:21:56

underfunded and understaffed.

Another said I'm 34 years in and

3:21:563:22:01

I've never seen anything like this.

These are honest hard-working

3:22:013:22:06

professionals, the lifeblood of the

NHS, and the benches opposite know

3:22:063:22:11

full well we could have repeated

dozens of other similar comments

3:22:113:22:15

from NHS staff because at the bottom

of all this is the inescapable,

3:22:153:22:19

indisputable fact that under this

government the NHS is in the middle

3:22:193:22:23

of the longest and deepest financial

squeeze in its entire history, and

3:22:233:22:27

it is a squeeze that as we have

heard today, is having devastating

3:22:273:22:30

consequences. We have warned time

and again that unless early and

3:22:303:22:36

substantial action was taken we face

another severe winter crisis, and of

3:22:363:22:39

course that is exactly where we are

today. We've had an apology but no

3:22:393:22:44

action from the government. Patients

deserve to know when this crisis

3:22:443:22:48

will be sold. Patients deserve to

know when they're cancelled

3:22:483:22:51

operations will take place and this

country deserves a government fit to

3:22:513:22:54

run the NHS. I commend this motion

to the House.

Minister Mr Steve

3:22:543:22:59

Brine.

Thank you, Madam Deputy

Speaker and happy New Year. We have

3:22:593:23:06

had a good debate this afternoon

with someone informed, as the lady

3:23:063:23:10

who speaks for Bristol South put it,

contributions from both sides. Let's

3:23:103:23:14

be clear, the NHS is a service we

are immensely proud of, we can agree

3:23:143:23:19

on that. Even during the challenging

winter period it continues to

3:23:193:23:22

deliver overwhelmingly safe and

effective care to thousands of our

3:23:223:23:25

constituents, and we should never

lose sight of that. We have had

3:23:253:23:29

examples today, including from my

Right Honourable friend, the lady

3:23:293:23:33

who speaks from Marando, who spoke

with her usual calm about the triage

3:23:333:23:36

model she saw working well in her

area when she had to go there over

3:23:363:23:41

the holiday -- Merrington. My

honourable friend the member for

3:23:413:23:43

Stafford who was one of many members

who visited the NHS over recent

3:23:433:23:47

periods and he spoke, and is well he

might as he usually does come about

3:23:473:23:51

the safe care being delivered there.

As my Right Honourable friend the

3:23:513:23:56

Secretary of State said early on

before in the Prime Minister, it is

3:23:563:23:58

a fact that we have done more

preparation for winter this year,

3:23:583:24:02

Madam Deputy Speaker, than ever

before. That's planning earlier, to

3:24:023:24:06

make sure the NHS is better

prepared. More than this, we've put

3:24:063:24:11

the money in in the form of an

additional £337 million for winter

3:24:113:24:17

pressures, and an additional £1

billion for the social care system

3:24:173:24:20

this year. As the public health

minister I'm proud of our flu

3:24:203:24:26

vaccination programme, already the

most comprehensive in Europe has

3:24:263:24:28

been extended even further. This,

Madam Deputy Speaker, was planning

3:24:283:24:34

ahead. Equally, we allocated £100

million of capital funding to help

3:24:343:24:38

hospital set up GP's streaming

systems at their A&Es reaching 91%

3:24:383:24:43

coverage by the end of November.

This too, Madam Deputy Speaker, was

3:24:433:24:48

planning ahead, they didn't just

appear overnight. For the first time

3:24:483:24:52

ever people were able to access GPs

nationally for urgent abundance from

3:24:523:24:56

8am until 8pm seven days a week over

the holiday period. Now, of course,

3:24:563:25:03

Madam Deputy Speaker, there were

indeed additional pressures this

3:25:033:25:06

year, very cold spells, very, very

cold spells in December, a sharp

3:25:063:25:10

uptick in fluid and respiratory

conditions and higher

3:25:103:25:14

hospitalisations from confirmed

cases of the flu from the peak

3:25:143:25:16

period last year. I will give way to

the honourable gentleman.

They're

3:25:163:25:20

also questions of NHS leadership.

Staffordshire, as he is aware, is

3:25:203:25:24

very much under pressure. The

Secretary of State received reports

3:25:243:25:31

into the closure and lack of

consultation of community hospitals

3:25:313:25:34

in our area on the 18th of October,

which absolutely slated the local

3:25:343:25:40

Clinical Commissioning Group scum

and yet a week later the NHS

3:25:403:25:44

appointed the chief operating

officer of those two CCGs to oversee

3:25:443:25:49

four more in Staffordshire. With the

minister ask his Right Honourable

3:25:493:25:52

friend to explain that decision?

The

sustainability in transformation

3:25:523:25:58

partnerships, which are taking place

across England and there will be one

3:25:583:26:00

in his area as well, which I'm sure

he is in gauge with, it is their

3:26:003:26:04

local decision about how services

are organised in local areas and I

3:26:043:26:07

would implore him, as I'm sure he is

and I know he is, engaging with them

3:26:073:26:11

and if he wishes to talk to me about

it he can. Limmy turn to some more

3:26:113:26:15

contributors. The lady for Bristol

South, who always speaks sensibly, I

3:26:153:26:20

think, spoke about the STPs, the

public and representative

3:26:203:26:25

involvement in STPs, and I agree

with and do more in that area, as

3:26:253:26:28

the minister responsible for STPs I

want to see that we do and it was a

3:26:283:26:32

point made. The lady for True and

Nantwich spoke about her constituent

3:26:323:26:38

-- Crewe and Nat which. She spoke

about her constituent who lost her

3:26:383:26:42

battle with cystic fibrosis. She

speaks up for her constituents and

3:26:423:26:45

if she continues to do that she will

do well in the House. The member for

3:26:453:26:49

Stockton South, who I have a lot of

respect for the day as a new Member

3:26:493:26:53

of the House, typically sensible

contribution. He uttered the words

3:26:533:26:57

sensible suggestions for improvement

in the National Health Service, and

3:26:573:27:00

went on to talk about prevention and

how to do better on that. He is spot

3:27:003:27:04

on that prevention is part of the

one NHS we all agree. He said it is

3:27:043:27:09

not all about money, and absolutely

we agree. Money is a key part of it,

3:27:093:27:13

that's why we spend 9.9% of our GDP,

that's about the EU average.

3:27:133:27:21

The lady for Leicester West.

She

said, this is not what happens every

3:27:213:27:26

year. Well, the NHS is under great

pressure at this time of year, every

3:27:263:27:32

year. I was reminded, just

yesterday, they headline in the

3:27:323:27:36

Guardian newspaper from the 27th of

October 2001, entitled, NHS faces

3:27:363:27:43

another winter of crisis. The NHS is

often under pressure at this time of

3:27:433:27:47

year and it is about how you prepare

for that. I have said I think we're

3:27:473:27:51

better prepared than ever, it is a

shame she's not listening to the

3:27:513:27:54

response. Let me touch on the lady

Wirral West...

I hesitate to drop, I

3:27:543:28:00

do not understand why there is so

much noise going on this side of the

3:28:003:28:04

House. I would not be surprised if

people were heckling the minister,

3:28:043:28:07

but they are just making a noise.

And that means the Minister cannot

3:28:073:28:11

be heard. He is answering questions

that he has been asked all

3:28:113:28:15

afternoon. Those who ask the

questions automatically the answers.

3:28:153:28:20

Minister...

Thank you. They appear

to be heckling themselves. Let me

3:28:203:28:24

just touch on the from Wirral West,

he said the NHS is a political

3:28:243:28:29

organisation. Totally, totally,

disagree. It is run by hard-working

3:28:293:28:34

people, public seven to go to work

everyday to do a job for our it is

3:28:343:28:40

not a political organisation. The

Labour Party is and it has

3:28:403:28:43

politicised the NHS. I will not give

way, you have had your say. My

3:28:433:28:51

friend from South West Bedfordshire

spoke about leadership. Absolutely

3:28:513:28:53

right. He knows that trust which has

been a belief led by Dame Pauline

3:28:533:29:00

Filipe Luis achieved a 98.6%

patients meeting before our target.

3:29:003:29:05

That is the kind of leadership that

can be done and that kind of

3:29:053:29:09

leadership for why she has been

brought into our response for winter

3:29:093:29:14

pressures. The member for South West

Wiltshire said it is all about

3:29:143:29:18

outcomes. Absolutely, in cancer we

do not do well. Well, we have the

3:29:183:29:23

best cancer outcomes ever in our

country. But I agree that our

3:29:233:29:27

ambition for long-term needs to be

better and we need to aim higher.

3:29:273:29:30

His point is noted. My friend from

Hanley spoke about Henley hospital

3:29:303:29:34

and the out of care what they are

doing. Thank you very much for his

3:29:343:29:38

invitation, and my ministerial

colleagues on the bench heard him

3:29:383:29:41

and it is very good to hear about

the cross-party working going on in

3:29:413:29:45

Oxfordshire. My honourable member

for Southport talked about the

3:29:453:29:48

joined up care and continuous

improvement. He reminded the House

3:29:483:29:53

that without a strong economy there

is no strong NHS. This is not the

3:29:533:29:57

Government's money, it is the

public's money and we need to spend

3:29:573:30:00

it well and I think we are. My

honourable friend, the member who

3:30:003:30:04

speaks from North Dorset, spoke

about community pharmacies. A

3:30:043:30:09

subject close to my heart. They are

a key part and better integration of

3:30:093:30:13

them with the NHS is part of that

prevention and primary care agenda,

3:30:133:30:17

I completely agree with him. My

honourable friend from Taunton spoke

3:30:173:30:22

about the AMD hub that sounds very

interesting, indeed. My honourable

3:30:223:30:28

friend was interested to hear that

and we will take you up on seeing

3:30:283:30:32

that. And finally my member for

mauling, welcome back and

3:30:323:30:37

congratulation on the birth of

Clifford, she spoke as ever up very

3:30:373:30:40

well on integration of health and

social care and said that that will

3:30:403:30:43

make sense and only serve to make

preparation for next winter better.

3:30:433:30:47

Madam Deputy Speaker, I hope to end

this debate on a note that all sides

3:30:473:30:51

of the House can agree. We are all

truly thank full for the

3:30:513:30:54

extraordinary dedication of NHS

staff, caring for their patients,

3:30:543:30:58

our constituents, during this

extremely challenging time. As ever,

3:30:583:31:01

they are doing a brilliant job.

The

question is, as on the order paper.

3:31:013:31:12

As many as are of the opinion, say

"aye". To the contrary, "no". The

3:31:123:31:22

ayes have it. Point of order...

Can

you confirm that by refusing to

3:31:223:31:29

defend the position of the

Government this afternoon, the

3:31:293:31:35

effect is that the motion stands

only name of the Leader of the

3:31:353:31:38

Opposition has been endorsed by the

whole house, and therefore we should

3:31:383:31:42

expect the Secretary of State to

come to this House before the end of

3:31:423:31:45

the month to make an oral statement

to explain to our constituents when

3:31:453:31:50

they're cancelled operations will be

re-scheduled.

What I can confirm to

3:31:503:31:57

the honourable gentleman is that the

House has just voted to carry the

3:31:573:32:01

motion before us. The motion before

us therefore stands. As to what the

3:32:013:32:08

Secretary of State will say or do

over the next few weeks, I am sure

3:32:083:32:12

that the Secretary of State will be

back at the dispatch box in the near

3:32:123:32:16

future as he is a most assiduous

attender of this chamber. But, we

3:32:163:32:23

all appreciate that he has other

work to do, too. We look forward to

3:32:233:32:26

think him doing that. We now come to

the second opposition Day motion on

3:32:263:32:35

rail franchising. Mr Andy McDonald

to move... But

thank you Madam

3:32:353:32:42

Deputy Speaker. I beg to move the

motion standing in my name and the

3:32:423:32:47

name of my honourable friends. May I

welcome the member from Orpington to

3:32:473:32:53

his new position and that of the

member of Wealden, I wish them

3:32:533:32:59

success in their new posts. And

Madam Deputy Beacon may I also pay

3:32:593:33:03

tribute to the right honourable

member for south Holland and the

3:33:033:33:06

beatings for 18 years of continuous

French bents service. From my --

3:33:063:33:14

front bench service. He was a

pleasure to work with and I hope we

3:33:143:33:20

can continue that relationship in

non-contentious areas, because I

3:33:203:33:23

think the result of that was

improved legislation. I also want to

3:33:233:33:27

congratulate the Secretary of State

for his superb stewardship of the

3:33:273:33:31

Conservative Party. No elections

lost, no major scandals. I think he

3:33:313:33:40

has maintained his membership around

70,000, not bad for 27 seconds work.

3:33:403:33:47

I am delighted Madam Deputy Speaker,

to see this excuse taking his place

3:33:473:33:51

to answers to a number of questions

that I and other members have for

3:33:513:33:56

him. Sadly, no Government minister

was available on the 2nd of January

3:33:563:34:01

two explain the highest fare

increases in five years. I very much

3:34:013:34:07

hope he provides some clarity today.

Sadly, the entire rail debate is

3:34:073:34:14

characterised by a lack of candour

and transparency from both the

3:34:143:34:18

Government and some quarters of the

rail industry. I will give way...

3:34:183:34:24

Thank you. Does he share my concern

that my constituents saw the biggest

3:34:243:34:29

rail fare increase in the country at

nearly 5%, and the fact that we are

3:34:293:34:33

still having to use Pacer trains

which are virtually as old as me at

3:34:333:34:37

42 years of age.

I entirely agree

with my honourable friend. It adds

3:34:373:34:42

insult to industry, to have such

heightened railway fares opposite

3:34:423:34:47

such appalling services. But, it is

time the Secretary of State woke up

3:34:473:34:52

from his state of denial that he is

in, and it is time to come clean and

3:34:523:34:56

admit he has made some mistakes. No

one is perfect. But, he should

3:34:563:35:01

acknowledge his failures and take

responsibility for the decision he

3:35:013:35:05

has made and the policy he has

pursued. And the consequences. I

3:35:053:35:09

urge the Minister to be entirely

unambiguous with the House today.

3:35:093:35:16

Madam Deputy Speaker, the

Government's defence of its rail

3:35:163:35:19

franchising system is totally

indefensible. It is not the first

3:35:193:35:22

time the Government has been in the

chamber this week in defence of the

3:35:223:35:26

indefensible.

I thank my honourable

friend forgiving way. In south

3:35:263:35:34

Wales, First Great Western over

Christmas and New Year reduced

3:35:343:35:38

services, cancelled services. It was

chaos. Yet, they have been handed a

3:35:383:35:42

franchise extension. Is it not time

to have performance related

3:35:423:35:47

franchises and performance related

franchise extensions, not if you are

3:35:473:35:52

already there you get it

automatically? No matter what the

3:35:523:35:55

service.

My right honourable friend

makes a very good point and I will

3:35:553:35:59

be returning to those themes in the

course of my speech. But, the

3:35:593:36:03

Government's inability to accept

that the franchise model, which is

3:36:033:36:07

demonstrably failing, is a betrayal

of the public who ploughed billions

3:36:073:36:11

of pounds of their taxes into the

railway. It is a betrayal of the

3:36:113:36:17

passengers who faced eye watering

fare rises year after year. It is a

3:36:173:36:20

betrayal of the hundreds of

thousands of dedicated and

3:36:203:36:25

passionate people who have worked in

the rail industry for decades. I'm

3:36:253:36:29

happy to give way...

Can I thank him

for his kindness to me just before

3:36:293:36:34

Christmas as well. But when it comes

to fare rises would he be able to

3:36:343:36:38

confirm whether fare rises have

risen faster under this Government

3:36:383:36:42

or under the last Labour Government?

What the Labour position is, if we

3:36:423:36:48

were in power we would not be

raising fares by RPI or IPI plus

3:36:483:36:54

one. We will be bringing about

savings to the travelling public to

3:36:543:36:59

save £500 across the time of this

Parliament. I will make little

3:36:593:37:06

progress and then allow

interventions later. In 2016 the

3:37:063:37:10

Department for Transport set out its

aims and objectives for rail

3:37:103:37:14

franchising. These were to encourage

a flourishing, competitive passenger

3:37:143:37:21

rail market which secures high

performing, value for money services

3:37:213:37:25

for passengers and taxpayers whilst

driving cost effectiveness. It is

3:37:253:37:30

clear the Department has failed to

meet these objectives. The latest

3:37:303:37:35

collapse of the east coast franchise

announced in November makes a

3:37:353:37:38

mockery of the departments 2016

games. Virgin, Stagecoach did not

3:37:383:37:47

deliver and defaulted on their

contract and the Secretary of State

3:37:473:37:51

has given them a gift. I will give

way.

I am grateful for giving way.

3:37:513:37:55

Given on the east coast main line,

that this will be the third occasion

3:37:553:37:59

in just over a decade that the

private contractor has announced

3:37:593:38:03

that it wishes to hand back the

keys. Was it not a fundamental

3:38:033:38:07

mistake on the part of the

Government not to have allowed is

3:38:073:38:12

coast trains, that successfully ran

the franchise for over 5.5 years,

3:38:123:38:15

pay back £1 billion to the Treasury

to allow carrying on his good work

3:38:153:38:22

and instead, ideological demanding

that anybody can commit to run it

3:38:223:38:25

but not the state-owned company that

did it so successfully.

My right

3:38:253:38:30

honourable friend has made an

absolutely perfect point and it will

3:38:303:38:33

be a thing that is consistent

throughout this debate, I have no

3:38:333:38:36

doubt. Indeed, the Government should

have followed the example of Labour

3:38:363:38:43

in 2009 when the operator defaulted

and taken the contract back into the

3:38:433:38:47

public sector. If a company

defaults, it does deserve the

3:38:473:38:52

contract. That way there will be no

reward for failure. Other companies

3:38:523:38:57

in the industry would not expect the

same treatment. In light of the east

3:38:573:39:04

coast, what plans does the Secretary

of State have to renegotiate the

3:39:043:39:07

trans-Pennine express, the Northern

and Crater Anglia franchise is? --

3:39:073:39:13

greater. Jelinek isn't the biggest

danger of this decision other

3:39:133:39:20

franchisees make also come looking

for a hand-out?

And entirely

3:39:203:39:28

consistent point with the issues

that I'm putting before the House.

3:39:283:39:30

Labour would not have let virgin and

Stagecoach off the hook on the east

3:39:303:39:36

coast. In the Secretary of State

consider taking the east coast

3:39:363:39:42

franchise into the public sector

following the default? Yes or no

3:39:423:39:46

Mac? And does he not worry that

because he refuses to use a public

3:39:463:39:51

sector operation even as a last

resort, struggling train companies

3:39:513:39:55

now know he has no option but to

bail them out in the event of a

3:39:553:40:00

failure. And those failures are not

confined to east coast, today's

3:40:003:40:06

National Audit Office report

highlights a litany of errors from

3:40:063:40:09

the Government over its planning and

management of the Thames Link,

3:40:093:40:13

southern and great Northern

franchise. These blunders have

3:40:133:40:16

caused misery to millions of people.

It is the Government's disastrous

3:40:163:40:21

handling of the franchise which led

to the industrial action on the

3:40:213:40:23

line. Some industry... I will.

And

accept the point that there has been

3:40:233:40:34

this dreadful report, scathing

report, on the performance of

3:40:343:40:36

Northern Rail. My constituents, they

are not so dependent as I am on the

3:40:363:40:44

east coast, getting up and down the

country. But it is the local

3:40:443:40:47

franchises that are letting ordinary

people getting to work.

The

3:40:473:40:52

honourable member has made his point

very powerfully.

I went into Dean in

3:40:523:41:03

detail but it is important to put on

the record this morning report had

3:41:033:41:06

nothing to do with an Northern Rail

franchise and I hope that will be

3:41:063:41:10

confirmed to the House.

I will do

that very thing, I will confirm that

3:41:103:41:14

the damning report was about Thames

Link and southern and great Northern

3:41:143:41:19

and it was damning of those

franchises which have been

3:41:193:41:22

appallingly managed. I will give

way...

3:41:223:41:28

Rail companies could do more for

passengers to make their lives

3:41:283:41:32

easier, many local stations like

Langeley Mill in my constituency

3:41:323:41:35

don't have a ticket machine so you

can't collect prepaid tickets, so

3:41:353:41:38

shouldn't it be a condition of any

franchise that passengers travelling

3:41:383:41:42

from such stations can use e-mail

proof instead of this computer says

3:41:423:41:46

no attitude we get from so many rail

companies.

We do have to think about

3:41:463:41:52

much greater flexibility across our

railway and greater accessibility

3:41:523:41:56

from people from every walk of life

but also different localities where

3:41:563:42:02

the facilities are not as they

should be. I will make some

3:42:023:42:05

progress, if I may. Some industry

commentators have said the Secretary

3:42:053:42:09

of State accepted rail franchise

bids which will access, excessive

3:42:093:42:15

and unrealistic, can he confirm that

the winning bids are accepted in the

3:42:153:42:19

expectation that they will be paid

in full? Does he anticipate the

3:42:193:42:25

premium payments on South Western

Railway, Greater Anglia, Northern

3:42:253:42:33

command TPE franchises to be paid in

full? Several other franchises look

3:42:333:42:37

vulnerable in the light of the East

Coast decision. Passenger growth is

3:42:373:42:41

slowing across the railway amid

weaker consumer confidence, rising

3:42:413:42:46

fares and changing work passions.

Rail passenger usage has fallen for

3:42:463:42:52

two consecutive reporting periods,

including a stark decline in season

3:42:523:42:55

ticket purchases, the core business

of rail companies. Passengers are

3:42:553:43:01

being priced off the railway, and

this is threatening the

3:43:013:43:05

sustainability of the network as a

whole.

Will my Right Honourable

3:43:053:43:09

friend give way? Thank you, I thank

my Right Honourable friend for

3:43:093:43:16

giving way. Since Southern Railway

fares went on the muck up in the New

3:43:163:43:20

Year three quarters of services

between Fulham and Victoria have not

3:43:203:43:23

arrived on time. If the delays we

have seen so far I replicated bound

3:43:233:43:28

commuters will waste a total of 30

hours stuck on delayed trains,

3:43:283:43:32

Southern Railway is not fit for

purpose, does my honourable friend

3:43:323:43:35

agree it's time for action?

I

couldn't agree more and it's

3:43:353:43:39

absolutely fascinating that we still

await the revelation of the Chris

3:43:393:43:44

Gibb report appendix nine, which

detailed the future of that

3:43:443:43:47

franchise. We haven't seen it. That

was a report that was commissioned

3:43:473:43:54

by Southern its self. They set the

terms and conditions and the

3:43:543:43:59

Secretary of State is muttering from

a sedentary position, but that's the

3:43:593:44:03

reality, they set out what that

report should be about and they have

3:44:033:44:05

not published the very kernel of the

report, which was the future of that

3:44:053:44:10

service.

I thank my honourable

friend and congratulate him. He

3:44:103:44:20

mentions season tickets, my

constituents are served by appalling

3:44:203:44:23

services from Northern and it's

hardly infest them are worth

3:44:233:44:26

investing in a season ticket when

trains are either cancelled or so

3:44:263:44:29

crowded they can't get on, does he

agree?

I do agree on the great

3:44:293:44:33

concern about all of that is it's

not achieving the modal shift will

3:44:333:44:37

want to see, it is saying to people

that the railway is not for me and I

3:44:373:44:40

may as well get back in my car,

which is the opposite thing we

3:44:403:44:43

should be doing.

Can I thank the

honourable member for giving way.

3:44:433:44:50

He's making an excellent case. Does

he not agree with me that given the

3:44:503:44:53

widespread evidence of the

lamentable failure of some of the

3:44:533:44:58

rail companies, consumer

dissatisfaction, price rises and so

3:44:583:45:02

on, that there is a strong case for

developing models of ownership,

3:45:023:45:07

which involve both the users of the

railways, those who work on the

3:45:073:45:12

railways and investors in the

railways in a form of cooperative

3:45:123:45:16

and mutually owned model, that might

well operate effectively and

3:45:163:45:21

efficiently with enormous public

support?

I'm grateful for the

3:45:213:45:26

honourable member for his point, I

think is very important that

3:45:263:45:29

passengers and those who work in the

rail industry's voices are heard,

3:45:293:45:33

these are the people who not only

use the service but are committed to

3:45:333:45:36

making it work.

I am grateful for

him giving way and my constituents

3:45:363:45:42

in Brighton will agree with him 100%

when he criticises GTR Southern, it

3:45:423:45:47

is adding insult to injury to put

prices up when the services people

3:45:473:45:49

in Brighton I've so awful. -- people

in Brighton are getting so awful.

3:45:493:45:57

Than the cost of driving has gone

down by sexting percent, would he

3:45:573:46:01

agree privatisation is failing

passengers and instead of lining the

3:46:013:46:04

pockets of shareholders we should

invest in our railways?

I couldn't

3:46:043:46:08

agree more and we have seen price

rises of 32% since 2010 which

3:46:083:46:12

underlies the point she is making. I

must then crack on.

I'm very

3:46:123:46:20

grateful. We have enjoyed cordial

exchanges on many occasions but I

3:46:203:46:23

suspect this will not be one of

them. The point has been made about

3:46:233:46:26

rail fare increases under

privatisation. I did a little bit of

3:46:263:46:32

research into fare increases under

nationalised British rail in the

3:46:323:46:35

same period of time that British

rail existed as the private

3:46:353:46:39

companies have. In 15 of the 22

years there was above inflation

3:46:393:46:43

increase. And overall that period

rail fares were 60% higher after

3:46:433:46:48

inflation. So why would

nationalisation automatically lead

3:46:483:46:53

to lower fares?

I'm grateful to him.

I'd like to think we can disagree

3:46:533:46:58

with one another but we don't need

to be disagreeable. He's got a good

3:46:583:47:04

memory, he's going back rather a

long way, and I've got to say to him

3:47:043:47:08

that his party has been in power

since 2010, eight years. It's the

3:47:083:47:13

record of this government that is

concerning us today and we're not

3:47:133:47:15

going back through all of our

yesterday is. One more and then I

3:47:153:47:19

will get on.

Yankee for giving way.

He's years younger than I am --

3:47:193:47:24

thank you for giving way. He can

remember the state the railways used

3:47:243:47:28

to be in. Would he not agree with me

that we have seen a terrific

3:47:283:47:32

improvement in the quality of

trains, the service, the attitude of

3:47:323:47:37

the staff, and excellent services

are developing. Would he agree with

3:47:373:47:40

me that's because of privatisation,

and would you further agree that

3:47:403:47:44

investment in our railways is at a

record high?

I regret to say that

3:47:443:47:51

many passengers' experience do not

match with the experience of the

3:47:513:47:56

Right Honourable member. The

evidence is that people are

3:47:563:48:01

dissatisfied with the services they

are receiving across the country, so

3:48:013:48:05

I would respectfully suggest to her

by going back over her in the woods

3:48:053:48:12

she is describing, thinking about

British rail, British rail had had

3:48:123:48:15

public investment in the rate that

has been poured out of the Treasury

3:48:153:48:19

into private operators we would have

had a gold standard railway in this

3:48:193:48:21

country. I really want to make

progress. A lot of people want to

3:48:213:48:26

speak. Madam Deputy Speaker, all of

these factors undermine the growth

3:48:263:48:31

forecasts which are so central to

the Government's model and the

3:48:313:48:36

undeliverable bid assumptions of

operators. First Group won the TPE

3:48:363:48:42

franchise in December 2015 based on

revenues increasing by 12% a year

3:48:423:48:47

and in one of his first acts as

Secretary of State he awarded the

3:48:473:48:51

Greater Anglia franchise to the

Dutch state-owned rail company

3:48:513:48:57

Abellio in 2016. The deal commits

the company to paying the government

3:48:573:49:03

£3.7 billion to run the line for

nine years. This is more than the

3:49:033:49:11

east coast and reports suggest that

Abellio's bid was £600 million more

3:49:113:49:15

than the next bidder. Like TPE and

East coast, Abellio's bid was based

3:49:153:49:23

on double-digit annual revenue

growth. The company's boss described

3:49:233:49:28

the 3.7 billion price tag as scary.

Does the Secretary of State

3:49:283:49:33

guarantee that the Treasury will

receive the full premium payment of

3:49:333:49:37

£3.7 billion from Abellio great

Anglia by 2025, yes or no?

I'm

3:49:373:49:48

grateful to my honourable friend,

he's making an excellent friend. --

3:49:483:49:52

case. Isn't one of the problems when

these companies make these

3:49:523:49:56

commitments, one of the things they

do is the staffing and deskilling

3:49:563:49:58

our railways in order to make more

profits to pay the money back?

The

3:49:583:50:05

whole issue of bidding and making

promises that cannot be kept is a

3:50:053:50:10

consistent characteristic of the

modern rail environment. If the

3:50:103:50:18

company do my companies rail

franchising system cannot deliver

3:50:183:50:21

competition and payments to the

Treasury what is the point of it? No

3:50:213:50:26

doubt the Secretary of State can

give a clear and straightforward

3:50:263:50:29

answer, perhaps as I sit down for

the last time to allow for an

3:50:293:50:33

intervention, the former Secretary

of State can give us some indication

3:50:333:50:37

of what is the point of a

franchising system if it doesn't

3:50:373:50:41

deliver on the premiums as promised.

I thank the Right Honourable

3:50:413:50:47

gentleman. I wonder if during his

speech tell us how franchising has

3:50:473:50:51

changed between 97 and 2010 when it

was defended continually by the last

3:50:513:50:57

Labour government as the best way to

seek extra investment in the

3:50:573:50:59

railways. And while he is also

confirming that, could he also

3:50:593:51:04

confirmed there are more people

employed on the east Coast Main line

3:51:043:51:07

than there was under the previous

people operating that line? And will

3:51:073:51:12

he welcomed the fact that the

Northern franchise and the trains

3:51:123:51:15

referred to earlier will go as a

result of the new franchise which

3:51:153:51:21

the Secretary of State has brought

in?

On the last point first, of

3:51:213:51:27

course the European Union dictate

that persons with restricted

3:51:273:51:30

mobility are not served by the

Pacers and their time has been up

3:51:303:51:34

for a long time and I'm glad to see

the back of the Madonna Blyth plenty

3:51:343:51:37

of people work on the railways and

I'm delighted the last Labour

3:51:373:51:40

government went about making the

railways safe, given the disaster

3:51:403:51:44

that was Railtrack that deliver the

Potters Bar, Hatfield and

3:51:443:51:48

Paddington, that was the legacy of

the last Labour government inherited

3:51:483:51:50

and turned it into the safest

railway in Europe, so I'm proud of

3:51:503:51:54

what the Labour government did.

Direct awards and franchise

3:51:543:51:59

extensions, Madam Deputy Speaker, in

the rail industry have been

3:51:593:52:02

overlooked in many of the rail

debates. These are contracts which

3:52:023:52:06

the government cannot or won't read

franchise, to which they are

3:52:063:52:11

ideologically opposed to running in

the public sector. The train

3:52:113:52:13

companies named their price to the

government for running these hand to

3:52:133:52:18

mouth contracts which simply keep

the trains running in the short term

3:52:183:52:22

and provide no long-term benefits

for investment. The West Coast route

3:52:223:52:26

has operated on a series of direct

awards since 2012, with reports of

3:52:263:52:33

another extension beyond 2019.

Another key intercity franchise,

3:52:333:52:39

great Western, has been operating

under a director would since 2013

3:52:393:52:42

when the government cancelled the

franchise competition. Scandalously,

3:52:423:52:49

great Western may run as a direct

award for ten years until 2023. The

3:52:493:52:54

government can't read franchise the

rail operation because its

3:52:543:52:59

management of Network Rail has been

so poor and the great West

3:52:593:53:02

electrification programme has been

such a shambles. I predict that

3:53:023:53:07

there will be more direct awards and

contract extensions to rail

3:53:073:53:11

franchise announced by the

government. The East Midlands

3:53:113:53:14

franchise is already on an extension

to 2019 and will probably get

3:53:143:53:19

another one. Madam Deputy Speaker, I

also predict the Secretary of State

3:53:193:53:25

will need to give Virgin and

Stagecoach a direct award on the

3:53:253:53:29

east coast because he won't be able

to deliver on his East Coast

3:53:293:53:33

partnership by 2020. It is simply

inconceivable that he will be able

3:53:333:53:37

to establish a framework, gain

regulatory support, but the idea out

3:53:373:53:43

to tender, receive bids and evaluate

bids and award the contract within

3:53:433:53:47

the time frame he has set out. A

direct award to Virgin Stagecoach on

3:53:473:53:54

the east coast will allow the

companies to continue to profit from

3:53:543:53:57

the line while they invest even

less. Once again the Secretary of

3:53:573:54:01

State needs to be entirely candid

with this House. Does he or does he

3:54:013:54:05

not anticipate giving Virgin

Stagecoach a direct award to run

3:54:053:54:12

rail operations on the east Coast?

While he sets out the East Coast

3:54:123:54:19

partnership, can he confirmed that

will take place? If he does, can he

3:54:193:54:22

tell the House how much less the

value of the premiums to the

3:54:223:54:25

Treasury would be under this

arrangement compared to the original

3:54:253:54:30

franchise? So, what is the Secretary

of State's solution to his failing

3:54:303:54:34

franchising model as competition

dwindles and premiums to the

3:54:343:54:39

Exchequer reduce? It's quite simple,

more taxpayer and fair pay support

3:54:393:54:44

for train operating companies. The

next franchises to come up our South

3:54:443:54:49

and West Coast. Under his new

revenue support arrangements

3:54:493:54:54

taxpayers will top up revenues if

growth targets are not met. What's

3:54:543:54:59

the point of franchising if the

operators don't take any risk? In

3:54:593:55:06

return, the Government will want

close financial monitoring of the

3:55:063:55:12

operators. Do we really want civil

servants in Marsham Street poring

3:55:123:55:16

over train company balance sheets?

Isn't there enough DfT interference

3:55:163:55:20

in the railway already? Rail

privatisation's vested interests

3:55:203:55:28

have spent over 20 years to try to

get franchising to work, despite the

3:55:283:55:36

government changing and tweaking the

system time after time all they have

3:55:363:55:40

done in return is to reveal evermore

new sorts of failure, whilst the

3:55:403:55:44

public continue to suffer

substandard services and ever higher

3:55:443:55:49

services. Madam Deputy Speaker,

enough is enough of that and we need

3:55:493:55:54

to change the system entirely.

3:55:543:56:00

But

the question is as on the order

paper. Secretary of State, Chris

3:56:003:56:04

Grayling.

Can I start with the one

thing that we will agree on this

3:56:043:56:09

afternoon, can I thank the right

honourable gentleman for his

3:56:093:56:14

generous comments about the member

of the south Holland, he has been a

3:56:143:56:17

great servant to both my department

and other departments over a long

3:56:173:56:21

period of time, 19 years on the

front bench in both Government and

3:56:213:56:24

opposition. That is an epic career.

I think we will very much appreciate

3:56:243:56:28

the work he has done, particularly

the wiki is done in legislation

3:56:283:56:33

building discussions. I will really

pay tribute and I thank the man

3:56:333:56:39

wants. Apart from that we have just

heard complete nonsense from the

3:56:393:56:48

party opposite. It might be

unparliamentary of me to call them

3:56:483:56:52

hypocritical, but I went personally

calling hit -- hypocritical, that

3:56:523:56:59

I'm astonished at the call that they

forget their actions in Government.

3:56:593:57:02

A tender ideas when cost a penny,

that is absolutely untrue. And the

3:57:023:57:07

inaccurate claims they make on the

lack of facts on subjects they

3:57:073:57:12

appear not to understand. Let me set

out why their ideas simply don't

3:57:123:57:17

stack up, wider positions do not add

up. I'm going to make a few comments

3:57:173:57:21

and then I will take interventions.

Let me also set out why their

3:57:213:57:24

policies make note sense for the

travelling public and why I do need

3:57:243:57:28

to make clear that their

pronouncements on the east coast

3:57:283:57:31

mainline are wrong. But, Madam

Deputy Speaker, let me also set out

3:57:313:57:35

why it is this Government that has

set about the task of modernising

3:57:353:57:39

upgrading our row ways in the

biggest reinvestment since the steam

3:57:393:57:43

age. When the Labour Government

quite simply failed to deliver the

3:57:433:57:49

restructuring improvements this

country needed. It is taking

3:57:493:57:51

Conservatives to begin to change

that. I do not like to see train

3:57:513:57:59

fares rise. I particularly like, as

a rail user of 35 years, to see

3:57:593:58:07

fares rise by nearly 20% in real

terms dream Labour's years in

3:58:073:58:10

office. I did my like -- did not

like to see them rose by 37%. We

3:58:103:58:22

have been able to limit the real

increase in train fares in 2% in

3:58:223:58:26

real terms since 20 town even while

we invest billions in upgrading the

3:58:263:58:31

network. More than I wish, but much

less than they did in office, and

3:58:313:58:38

and that he was simply unwilling to

answer the correct question from my

3:58:383:58:42

honourable friend over there, under

Labour, fares rose much, much faster

3:58:423:58:46

than under this Government. But that

does not make it any easier for

3:58:463:58:51

those who faced increases last week.

I had hoped to be able to bring down

3:58:513:58:55

the rate of increase with a higher

RPI rate to the lower CPI rate this

3:58:553:59:00

year. That remains my goal. But

there is a problem. This is an

3:59:003:59:04

industry that looked into the RPI

and has done for years. The biggest

3:59:043:59:11

barriers to change other unions

whose members pay almost a third of

3:59:113:59:14

the cost of the industry, and

currently there pay rises in line,

3:59:143:59:20

or about RPI inflation every single

year. I will give way...

Thank you

3:59:203:59:25

for giving way. The very recent

report from the NA oh, said some the

3:59:253:59:33

problems could be avoided if the

Department for Transport had taken

3:59:333:59:35

more care to consider the passengers

deciding the rail franchise. Would

3:59:353:59:43

you recognise that particular

statement and do you apologise to

3:59:433:59:45

the passengers?

The honourable

gentleman is not asking the

3:59:453:59:50

Secretary of State, he is asking the

chair, the Secretary of State

3:59:503:59:56

through the chair... Yes please.

Through the chair, would I like to

3:59:564:00:00

ask the Secretary of State, with the

Secretary of State recognise that

4:00:004:00:05

severe criticism from the head of

the NAO and would he apologise on

4:00:054:00:13

the heart of my constituents and

rail passengers across the

4:00:134:00:15

south-east.

What I make no apologies

for is the huge investment programme

4:00:154:00:20

in the Thames Link network, the

massive expansion of London Bridge

4:00:204:00:24

station which has just been

completed. The introduction of

4:00:244:00:27

brand-new 12 coach trains across the

network. What I do apologise for is

4:00:274:00:31

that we were not able to avoid the

extraordinarily ill judged actions

4:00:314:00:37

by the trade unions who caused

massive trouble for passengers. The

4:00:374:00:43

honourable gentleman talks about the

imp report there was a simple

4:00:434:00:47

conclusion, or they will though

there were problems on this network,

4:00:474:00:50

that is why we are spinning £300

million on improving, it is why

4:00:504:00:54

Chris Gibb said that by far the

biggest disruptive factor on this

4:00:544:01:00

network was the trade unions. Of

course, we want to see rail are paid

4:01:004:01:04

fairly. A trade union leaders are

driving up ticket prices are

4:01:044:01:08

hard-working people. The same unions

who want CPI increases for their

4:01:084:01:14

fares, want RPI... The honourable

member should listen to this. The

4:01:144:01:17

guidance to its negotiators from the

RMT, is that any attempt by an

4:01:174:01:21

employer to link a pay award to CPI

must be refused. So, he wants bigger

4:01:214:01:26

rises for his members, love arises

the passengers, where is the money

4:01:264:01:30

coming from? It does not add up, the

Labour policy does not add up, the

4:01:304:01:34

union policy does not add up, of

course you will remember, who pays

4:01:344:01:38

the Bill for the Labour Party. Even

this shadow Secretary of State has

4:01:384:01:43

had contributions financially from

the RMT. They are in the pockets of

4:01:434:01:46

the trade unions and that is only

not acceptable. I will give regular

4:01:464:01:51

shadow Secretary of State.

He is

making a point, I know it is taking

4:01:514:01:56

100 years for the party opposite to

understand this, but we are the

4:01:564:01:59

Labour and trade union movement, he

needs to get that understood. I tell

4:01:594:02:02

you what, it is the cleanest money

in politics. I would rather take

4:02:024:02:07

from trade unions, rather than hedge

fund managers and... By Mackie is

4:02:074:02:14

bankrolled by the people who are

disrupting parts of this network

4:02:144:02:19

inappropriately. By people who are

driven politically,

disrupting for

4:02:194:02:25

political purposes. They should

design the unions and their current

4:02:254:02:28

action, his conduct on this is not

acceptable. A giveaway...

Thank you

4:02:284:02:33

for giving way. Can I do say to him,

as I walked through, on my daily

4:02:334:02:38

commute, as I know he does, through

London Bridge station where there

4:02:384:02:42

have been a lot of difficulties for

me and my constituents travelling,

4:02:424:02:45

that is now an absolute temple for

travel. Can we talk positively about

4:02:454:02:51

our rail system and not just knock

it?

Point of order Mr MacDonald.

I

4:02:514:02:59

don't know if you heard what I

heard, but I think I have been

4:02:594:03:03

accused of unacceptable behaviour,

and I think needs to be clarified. I

4:03:034:03:06

have tried to conduct myself with

all civility and proprietary and to

4:03:064:03:10

hear that from the Secretary of

State is regrettable. I seek your

4:03:104:03:17

guidance.

The Secretary of State did

use a phrase using the word

4:03:174:03:20

unacceptable, and it might be busy

Secretary of State might like to

4:03:204:03:24

repeat the meaning of what he wished

to say in slightly different words,

4:03:244:03:30

because the honourable gentleman,

the shadow Secretary of State, does

4:03:304:03:33

have a point about the precise use

of words in the scandal.

What I

4:03:334:03:38

think is unacceptable is to defend

inappropriate strike action around

4:03:384:03:42

this country by people who should

not be disrupting the lives of

4:03:424:03:46

passengers. I wait with interest to

hear anyone in the party opposite

4:03:464:03:49

say, the strikes are wrong. Sadly, I

have not heard that, and I have not

4:03:494:03:54

heard of 18 months. I wait

patiently. Well, it uses his

4:03:544:04:00

position is about safety, even

though the safety regulatory

4:04:004:04:03

authority says it is not. That, I'm

afraid, is the shame. I will give

4:04:034:04:08

way.

I thank the Secretary of State

for giving way. I wonder if he could

4:04:084:04:12

tell us why is the RMT have been

able to negotiate successfully both

4:04:124:04:19

in Scotland and in Wales, the whole

question which is very concerning to

4:04:194:04:23

the public, of driver only trains.

And yet, we cannot get that here in

4:04:234:04:28

England. Is it something to do with

the Secretary of State?

Driver only

4:04:284:04:34

trains have been operating in this

country for 30 years. The ASL EF

4:04:344:04:38

union had breached a perfectly

acceptable agreement, about the

4:04:384:04:46

redevelopment of new train

technologies, and today, as we stay

4:04:464:04:49

here, the RMT is striking on

Southwest rally, even though they

4:04:494:04:55

are saying they won't take a second

person of the train. That is an

4:04:554:04:58

absurd position. She will remember,

the comment made by the national

4:04:584:05:04

President of the RMT, what they are

really try to do is create a

4:05:044:05:07

national rail strike and bring down

the Government. That is my consent,

4:05:074:05:10

it is not about passengers, it is

about political motivation and that

4:05:104:05:15

is not acceptable. That is not my

concern --.

I have sat here and

4:05:154:05:21

watched him chuckle and smile as my

honourable friend was making his

4:05:214:05:25

contribution. My constituents have

been suffering from the most

4:05:254:05:31

dreadful services from Southern and

also tends them. I can tell him that

4:05:314:05:35

that is no laughing matter. He

refers to industrial action. This

4:05:354:05:40

NAO report is clear. His department

did not check if GTR had enough

4:05:404:05:44

drivers. His department did not have

a proper understanding of the

4:05:444:05:49

condition of the network when it was

setting the conditions of the

4:05:494:05:52

franchise. It is absolutely clear in

this report, it says the cumulative

4:05:524:05:57

effects of the decisions made by his

department had negatively impacted

4:05:574:06:03

on passengers. He can talk about

industrial action all he wants. When

4:06:034:06:07

is this Secretary of State going to

accept responsibility, as an

4:06:074:06:11

honourable member just in mind,

apologise to our constituents for

4:06:114:06:15

the dreadful misery they have been

suffering?

With the absolutely

4:06:154:06:19

clear. I have been Secretary of

State for 18 months. Let's be clear

4:06:194:06:22

what I have done. There are another

pod is on this network, I've never

4:06:224:06:26

made any attempt to hide that. The

infrastructure is not good enough,

4:06:264:06:29

that is why we have launched an

immediate £300 million programme to

4:06:294:06:33

upgrade some of the areas of the

network that are failing to often.

4:06:334:06:36

That is why we have change the ways

of working, why I asked Christians

4:06:364:06:42

to going to bring together the

operation of track and train on a

4:06:424:06:45

daily basis on a daily basis. --

Chris Gibb. Brand-new trains coming

4:06:454:06:53

through his constituency, but what

Chris Gibb, that everybody has

4:06:534:06:58

rightly said, it is a well-regarded

independent figure, what he said is

4:06:584:07:01

above all the disruption that was

caused his his constituents, the

4:07:014:07:07

unacceptable disruption, was caused

by the trade unions. They party

4:07:074:07:11

demanded, the publication of Chris

Gibb's report, it was published and

4:07:114:07:15

that is what it said. They may not

like it but that is what it said. I

4:07:154:07:18

will give way.

This could turn into

a really good debate on the future

4:07:184:07:24

of the rail industry. He is making a

bit too partisan. Could we not

4:07:244:07:33

return to what everybody knows is

the problem, the quality of

4:07:334:07:39

management and the broken

franchising system. Will he get onto

4:07:394:07:42

that? Because it is across the House

that we all know there is a serious

4:07:424:07:47

column of management and the

franchising system.

The bid them

4:07:474:07:51

scratch macro biggest problem we

have is that we have not had enough

4:07:514:07:56

new chains and not enough

investment. That is why it is right

4:07:564:07:59

and proper that this Government is

spending more than the steam age on

4:07:594:08:04

infrastructure, why we have more

trains being introduced right across

4:08:044:08:07

the country. We are seeing new

trains on the great Western roots,

4:08:074:08:09

on the east coast mainline, new

trends in the zero. Every single

4:08:094:08:14

change in the north of England is

being replaced or as new. A

4:08:144:08:19

programme of transition that has not

been seen for decades and decades

4:08:194:08:23

and decades. That is what the

railway really needs. I will give

4:08:234:08:28

way.

New chains on Southwest and

railways. The problem is that the

4:08:284:08:32

new trains are designed to have the

doors opened by the driver. Railway

4:08:324:08:37

has guaranteed to schedule two

members of staff, continue to have a

4:08:374:08:44

guard on every train. And now comes

down to the ridiculous argument of

4:08:444:08:48

which of them opens the doors. Madam

Deputy Speaker, I remember when we

4:08:484:08:53

used to be able to open the doors

ourselves! My honourable friend is

4:08:534:09:01

absolutely right. This is a

completely pointless strike. This is

4:09:014:09:03

what frustrates me. The honourable

gentleman opposite, with whom I

4:09:034:09:09

normally have a good relationship,

but it frustrates me that he will

4:09:094:09:13

not stand up and say to the unions,

why will you not stop this action?

4:09:134:09:16

We have been very clear on

south-western Railway, the second

4:09:164:09:21

member of staff is staying on the

train. On Southern, there are today

4:09:214:09:25

more member of staff is working on

trains than there were before the

4:09:254:09:30

industrial started. Why on earth is

carrying on Chris Hackett is wrong.

4:09:304:09:35

I will take one war intervention and

make progress.

I'm grateful, he may

4:09:374:09:44

not actually be able to give me this

answer at the moment, but perhaps he

4:09:444:09:51

could use it later on today. Could

you give us an indication on how

4:09:514:09:55

much investment is taking place

between 2010 and 2020 on new

4:09:554:10:00

infrastructure, new railway

carriages. Can he compare that with

4:10:004:10:05

the kind of investment that took

place between 1997 and 2010?

I

4:10:054:10:11

cannot give the exact numbers, but

we are investing tens of billions of

4:10:114:10:17

pounds in the realm ways over the

period that my right honourable

4:10:174:10:21

friend talks about. And, crucially,

the private sector that the party

4:10:214:10:25

opposite seems to dislike so much,

is also investing billions of pounds

4:10:254:10:29

in those new trains. The new trains

arriving on all parts of the network

4:10:294:10:34

right now, I not being funded by

Government, but are being funded by

4:10:344:10:39

the private sector. This is the key

flaw in their arguments. That,

4:10:394:10:42

actually, if we get rid of the

private sector in the rail network

4:10:424:10:45

they will not be any new trains.

Actually, it is billions of pounds

4:10:454:10:50

coming from elsewhere. That is money

that comes otherwise from the

4:10:504:10:53

Treasury, it is money that has to

compete with schools, complete with

4:10:534:10:56

hospitals. What we are doing,

through the public and private

4:10:564:11:02

organisations that work side by a

railway, we are delivering a huge

4:11:024:11:06

infrastructure development programme

at the same time we're delivering a

4:11:064:11:10

transformation of our rolling stock.

I will take more one or

4:11:104:11:13

intervention.

4:11:134:11:17

It is an interesting concept that

the travelling public have a good

4:11:174:11:19

deal paid for by the private train

operating companies. I checked what

4:11:194:11:23

it would cost me if I left the House

of Commons and went to Durham at the

4:11:234:11:28

moment. It would cost me £153

standard class, 236 first-class but

4:11:284:11:35

of course we're not allowed to do

that. A similar journey at the same

4:11:354:11:39

time of day from Frankfurt to Munich

in Germany would cost £39 and two p.

4:11:394:11:46

How is it our travelling public are

getting a good deal from this

4:11:464:11:49

fragmented privatised system?

In

this country we have taken under

4:11:494:11:56

governments of both persuasions

decisions about the right balance

4:11:564:11:58

between the cost of the railways

being borne by those who use the

4:11:584:12:01

railways and those who don't use the

railways. The reality is that, yes,

4:12:014:12:06

you may be quoting fares but he can

buy an advanced ticket for the East

4:12:064:12:11

Coast route that is a faction of the

cost he has just described. Madam

4:12:114:12:14

Deputy Speaker, I will make some

progress now -- a fraction of the

4:12:144:12:19

cost. The Shadow Secretary of State

asked a variety of questions about

4:12:194:12:24

the East Coast Main line and I want

to respond to that. The reality is

4:12:244:12:29

sometimes the private companies get

it wrong, the situation on the East

4:12:294:12:32

Coast franchise is a clear example,

virgin and Stagecoach overbid and

4:12:324:12:36

they are and they will pay the

price. They will pay the price. I've

4:12:364:12:41

listened with interest to some of

the uninformed comments about the

4:12:414:12:44

situation on the East coast of the

last few weeks and heard absurd

4:12:444:12:47

claims from those who don't

understand what they are talking

4:12:474:12:49

about so let me explain to the House

this afternoon what the position is.

4:12:494:12:53

I'm not agreeing to an early

termination of the contract in 2020

4:12:534:12:56

and nobody has asked me to. This

railway is paying a huge premium to

4:12:564:13:00

the taxpayer and continues to do so.

The issue is that this franchise is

4:13:004:13:05

not delivering the profits the

operator expected and is at risk of

4:13:054:13:09

not making it as far as 2020. I'm

going to explain this in detail,

4:13:094:13:16

forgive me. Passenger numbers are

rising on this railway. Customer

4:13:164:13:23

satisfaction is up. The line is

generating a healthy and growing

4:13:234:13:26

operating surplus, which is

providing a much greater return to

4:13:264:13:30

the taxpayer than it was in the

public sector. It is also worth

4:13:304:13:34

saying it is running more services

and its employing more staff. The

4:13:344:13:39

money that the franchise pays to the

government is today 20% higher than

4:13:394:13:42

it was under public ownership. But

virgin and Stagecoach got the

4:13:424:13:48

numbers wrong. They've been losing

money steadily and have now lost the

4:13:484:13:51

best part of £200 million over the

last three years. Despite that I am

4:13:514:13:56

holding them to their full financial

obligations taking every last penny

4:13:564:14:01

of the £165 million guarantee we

insisted upon when they took on the

4:14:014:14:05

franchise. That is a huge sum of

money. I'm going to finish and will

4:14:054:14:09

then take interventions. That is a

huge sum of money or a British

4:14:094:14:13

business with a market

capitalisation of under £1 billion

4:14:134:14:15

and also one of the biggest bombs of

its kind ever provided in the rail

4:14:154:14:19

industry. Despite the claims of the

party opposite this isn't a bailout.

4:14:194:14:23

There is no viable legal mechanism

through which I can extract any more

4:14:234:14:27

money from them. My department is

preparing contingency plans as we do

4:14:274:14:30

not believe the franchise will be

financially viable through to 2020.

4:14:304:14:38

When we reach a conclusion to that

work I will come back to this House

4:14:384:14:41

and make a statement. But I do

intend to go ahead with the East

4:14:414:14:44

Coast partnership as I indicated in

my statement a month ago. People in

4:14:444:14:48

this country do not understand the

separation of track and train, as

4:14:484:14:51

part of our reforms we are bringing

the two together as Sir Roy McNulty

4:14:514:14:57

indicated in his report.

I'm

grateful to the Secretary of State.

4:14:574:15:00

Can he make it clear, he's talking

about the parent company guaranteed

4:15:004:15:03

and that will be paid. What about

the premium payments from 2020 -

4:15:034:15:10

2023? They amount to £2 billion. Are

the company going to pay those

4:15:104:15:17

premiums, or are they not?

What I've

just said to him is that currently

4:15:174:15:21

we are not convinced the franchise

will make it as far as 2020, so we

4:15:214:15:26

will put in place alternative

arrangements. However, however, he

4:15:264:15:31

clearly wasn't listening to what I

was saying. However, this railway

4:15:314:15:35

will continue to deliver a

substantial operating surplus,

4:15:354:15:39

premium to the taxpayer, whatever

the situation. Whatever happens,

4:15:394:15:43

this railway will continue to

deliver large sums of money to the

4:15:434:15:46

taxpayer will stop I will give way.

Thank you, Secretary of State for

4:15:464:15:52

stuff if I heard him correctly, I

think he was confirming the article

4:15:524:15:54

that was in the Sunday Times, which

said the full contract, as it was

4:15:544:16:02

led, was not legally enforceable. If

that is the case, can he confirm it

4:16:024:16:07

and explain to the House why he

agreed a contract that wasn't

4:16:074:16:10

legally enforceable? And if that's

not true, why doesn't he demand the

4:16:104:16:16

full 2 billion?

I think the

honourable gentleman hasn't

4:16:164:16:21

understood the finances of the rail

industry? The money the taxpayer

4:16:214:16:24

receives from the operating profits,

of which the taxpayer receives the

4:16:244:16:30

lion's share, will continue to flow

into the public coffers whatever

4:16:304:16:33

happens. The contract that was left

between virgin Stagecoach and the

4:16:334:16:38

government will be fully enforced,

will be fully enforced. Absolutely

4:16:384:16:43

commit to the House that is what

will happen. Madam Deputy Speaker,

4:16:434:16:47

I'm going to make some further

progress. What we've heard this

4:16:474:16:51

afternoon, and actually we have

heard it more explicitly than

4:16:514:16:55

before, Labour's policy is to return

to the days of British rail, somehow

4:16:554:17:00

there is an idea that this will

bring Nirvana with it. It only takes

4:17:004:17:04

a moment of thought to realise how

flawed their thinking is, assuming

4:17:044:17:08

they have done me thinking about

this in the first place because our

4:17:084:17:11

network suffers from three main

problems. The infrastructure, which

4:17:114:17:15

is already running the public

sector, something they forget, is

4:17:154:17:18

often old and unreliable, something

like two thirds of the problems on

4:17:184:17:21

our railway network come as a result

of the issues on the public run

4:17:214:17:27

infrastructure. So the issue is not

about who runs it or who owns it,

4:17:274:17:32

it's about investment in the

infrastructure, and that's why I'm

4:17:324:17:35

pleased to have just announced a

further £20 billion renewal

4:17:354:17:39

programme for infrastructure

concentrating on replacing older

4:17:394:17:42

points and signals and upgrading

systems so we have a more reliable

4:17:424:17:46

railway. Problem number one,

solution number one. The second

4:17:464:17:49

issue, the system is heavily

congested. It wouldn't matter who

4:17:494:17:53

was running the railway, routes into

places like London Waterloo,

4:17:534:17:57

Manchester Piccadilly, would still

be full. What those stations and

4:17:574:18:01

roots need is longer trains, and

that is why the private sector,

4:18:014:18:05

supported by government, is

investing in those longer trains all

4:18:054:18:09

around the country, Manchester,

around London and the West Country

4:18:094:18:12

and West Midlands. That's the next

priority. We probably have the

4:18:124:18:17

biggest renewal programme of rolling

stock taking place at the moment in

4:18:174:18:20

modern times, certainly by far the

biggest in Europe and this is what

4:18:204:18:23

is necessary. If you are on an eight

coach training the mind that is full

4:18:234:18:27

what you need in the morning is a

ten coach train, that's what we're

4:18:274:18:31

doing. We are expanding capacity on

routes like Thames Link to make a

4:18:314:18:34

difference in the centre of London

and in Manchester there will be

4:18:344:18:38

linkage across the city to create

extra capacity on the trans-Pennine

4:18:384:18:42

routes. Thirdly, the system is

organisationally too fragmented, too

4:18:424:18:47

many people debating with each other

rather than solving problems for

4:18:474:18:51

passengers, which is why our

strategy is to bring back delivered

4:18:514:18:53

the day-to-day operation of the

track and trains. Those are the

4:18:534:18:57

three challenges that the rail

network faces today and that's why

4:18:574:19:01

passengers are often frustrated,

those are problems we are working to

4:19:014:19:04

address and why we have solutions to

address them and investment in

4:19:044:19:09

solving them. Renationalisation and

shifting things around will not

4:19:094:19:14

solve those problems. Let's

concentrate on the things that make

4:19:144:19:16

the difference to the passengers and

not on moving deckchairs, as Labour

4:19:164:19:20

seem to want.

I thank the Secretary

of State for giving way. Would you

4:19:204:19:27

bet the House on his discussions

with the Welsh government on

4:19:274:19:30

devolving responsibility for the

franchise in Wales? We are halfway

4:19:304:19:33

through the bidding process the

Welsh government is conducting, the

4:19:334:19:36

powers remain in Westminster despite

the promises of the British

4:19:364:19:39

Government to hand them over.

That

is simply untrue, the riveting of

4:19:394:19:43

the Wales and the Borders franchises

is being handled entirely by the

4:19:434:19:47

Welsh government and the question is

will they deliver their promises, to

4:19:474:19:50

deliver their promises to electrify

the Cardiff Valley lines, which I've

4:19:504:19:57

given them the opportunity to create

an integrated metro railway for

4:19:574:20:01

Cardiff. I'll be interested to see

if they can deliver what they have

4:20:014:20:04

promised. They have control of the

Wales and Borders franchises, the

4:20:044:20:07

only power I have retained is to

look after the interests of those

4:20:074:20:09

people on the English side of the

border, so he's not right on that.

4:20:094:20:15

As he has mentioned this, as he

looked at the proposals of Professor

4:20:154:20:20

Mark Barry to have an electrify

Swansea Metro that also reduces the

4:20:204:20:23

time from Cardiff to Swansea in half

by straightening the line, which

4:20:234:20:31

would provide the electrification

David Cameron promised and an

4:20:314:20:34

integrated Swansea Metro and a

shorter journey time?

What I would

4:20:344:20:38

say to him is I think it's more

likely than not that what we will

4:20:384:20:45

see on the Welsh Valley lines on the

Cardiff Metro lines is the same

4:20:454:20:48

approach I have taken in south

Wales, of actually using hybrid

4:20:484:20:52

technology rather than

electrification. That's what I think

4:20:524:20:54

they are going to do. And of course

the honourable gentleman talks about

4:20:544:20:59

dirty diesel from a secondary

position. We are seeing new

4:20:594:21:03

technologies that will transform the

way our railways work and we will

4:21:034:21:07

see hydrogen trains, a new

generation of trains, hybrid trains

4:21:074:21:09

are much cleaner than their

predecessors. New technology is

4:21:094:21:13

giving us great versatility. People

want to speak so I will conclude.

4:21:134:21:21

What we have heard from the Labour

Party today, I'm afraid, is simply a

4:21:214:21:24

position based on sand. They want

lower fare rises, they won't tell us

4:21:244:21:28

how they will be paid for because

the numbers don't add up and

4:21:284:21:31

actually the irony in London where

Labour are in power the fares are

4:21:314:21:35

going up by more than the rest of

the country. Whereas by contrast, we

4:21:354:21:40

are addressing the real problems on

the rail network, we are providing

4:21:404:21:43

the investment the railways need.

Over Christmas and imagined

4:21:434:21:47

disruptions, yes, I know passengers

had a disrupted time over Christmas.

4:21:474:21:50

The reason why is because we are

spending billions of pounds across

4:21:504:21:55

the country and at some point the

work has got to be done. What those

4:21:554:21:58

people who are walking to London

Bridge station in the mornings will

4:21:584:22:01

see is those people who have

travelled to the north-west will

4:22:014:22:12

see, is expanded services and

improvements.

Technology and

4:22:124:22:17

investment will make a huge

difference. Willie confirmed that

4:22:174:22:21

modern digital signalling will allow

the railway to run many more trains

4:22:214:22:24

on on the same piece of track and

that could be the cheapest and best

4:22:244:22:27

way of dealing with the bottlenecks?

My Right Honourable friend is

4:22:274:22:31

absolutely right. We are already

seeing Kemsley will use digital

4:22:314:22:34

signalling in a way that has never

happened before in this country, we

4:22:344:22:38

will use digital signalling and the

improvements on the trans-Pennine

4:22:384:22:41

route and elsewhere. This is a

government investing in the railway.

4:22:414:22:44

This is a party that believes in the

railways and understands the need to

4:22:444:22:48

expand capacity in the railways. We

have not done enough for much too

4:22:484:22:52

long. In the years since

privatisation passenger numbers have

4:22:524:22:55

grown and grown after the years of

decline in the years of British

4:22:554:22:59

rail, so the pressures have

increased, so the need to invest has

4:22:594:23:03

increased, so the challenge has

increased, and that's why we are

4:23:034:23:06

spending billions on the

infrastructure, building stations

4:23:064:23:09

like London Bridge, Crossrail,

replacing every train in the North

4:23:094:23:15

of England and why we are acting in

a way that in 30 years of power the

4:23:154:23:19

party opposite never did. SPEAKER:

Before I called a spokesman for the

4:23:194:23:24

Scottish National Party it will be

obvious that a great many people

4:23:244:23:29

wish to speak this afternoon and

that we have limited time left. It

4:23:294:23:33

should be noted that a great many

people also intervened on the two

4:23:334:23:38

front bench speeches. The Right

Honourable gentleman concerned were

4:23:384:23:43

very generous with their time. But

members must take responsibility.

4:23:434:23:48

You can all sit down. They must take

responsibility for the amount of

4:23:484:23:53

time that their interventions take

up, and that is noted by the chair,

4:23:534:23:57

and therefore we will have an

initial time limit of four minutes.

4:23:574:24:05

But I do not dissipate that everyone

who has indicated to me that they

4:24:054:24:07

wish to speak will have an

opportunity to do so because there

4:24:074:24:10

simply isn't enough time. Mr Alan

Brown.

Thank you, Madam Deputy

4:24:104:24:17

Speaker, a belated happy New Year to

you. I would also like to

4:24:174:24:21

congratulate and welcomed the new

ministers to the front bench and pay

4:24:214:24:24

tribute to the work of the previous

Minister, he certainly knew how to

4:24:244:24:28

conduct himself at the dispatch box

and I think the Secretary of State

4:24:284:24:32

should think on that in terms of how

he conducts himself. He stood up and

4:24:324:24:40

spoke for 18 minutes doing union

bashing before he went on to

4:24:404:24:43

anything of any substantive point.

Madding Deputy Speaker, let me also

4:24:434:24:49

be the first in the chamber to

congratulate Virgin Rail and I want

4:24:494:24:53

to congratulate them on their recent

decision they made, which was to

4:24:534:24:56

stop selling the Daily Mail on their

west coast route. I hope further

4:24:564:25:00

outlets will follow suit and I'm

sure many people would agree in the

4:25:004:25:03

chamber. It is probably going to be

the last condiment I paid Virgin

4:25:034:25:07

Rail but I'd like to put on record

and commend the hard work of the

4:25:074:25:12

staff that work for Virgin, I

encounter these staff on a fairly

4:25:124:25:16

regular basis on the West Coast

route and I can pay testament to

4:25:164:25:19

their professionalism and hard work.

Madding Deputy Speaker, this motion

4:25:194:25:24

covers rail franchise in general and

the bailout of the virgin east coast

4:25:244:25:29

in particular. It's fair to say

there are opposite views across the

4:25:294:25:33

chamber on the merits of

privatisation and franchising and we

4:25:334:25:36

have already seen that from

exchanges. One thing I'm confident

4:25:364:25:39

about is the Transport Secretary

wrongly connecting cause and effect

4:25:394:25:43

when it comes to the privatisation

of the railway. It can be argued and

4:25:434:25:47

has been argued that British rail

was struggling and it had poured

4:25:474:25:52

rolling stock and was outdated but

that is only half of the picture.

4:25:524:25:55

Any underinvestment in British rail

in rolling stock was due to

4:25:554:25:58

government constraints. Passenger

numbers were also affected by the

4:25:584:26:02

recession, both in terms of

commuters having jobs, of course,

4:26:024:26:07

affordability. Their spending power

and investment was also further

4:26:074:26:13

hampered because of upgrades

required following the Clapham rail

4:26:134:26:15

crash in 1980 on the upgrade is

required in order to service the

4:26:154:26:20

Channel Tunnel links. That, Madam

Deputy Speaker, was yet another

4:26:204:26:24

example of the investment in the

south-east of England to the

4:26:244:26:26

detriment of the United Kingdom. We

know that these problems in British

4:26:264:26:32

Rail in terms of the John Major

government, their attitude was to

4:26:324:26:35

privatise it and sell it off. They

did this at such a pace that there

4:26:354:26:40

was no co-ordinated or strategic

approach. If you look at the history

4:26:404:26:44

of this, it shows us that

privatisation Russia gave us rail

4:26:444:26:48

track that eventually went bust and

was replaced by Network Rail, and if

4:26:484:26:53

ever there was an example that

infrastructure is best owned and

4:26:534:26:56

managed in the public sector to

avoid profit before safety then

4:26:564:26:59

that's a prime example. I'm not

pretending Network Rail is currently

4:26:594:27:05

operating as efficiently as it can

be but it does not put profit before

4:27:054:27:08

safety.

4:27:084:27:13

They also gave as a model that the

countries of Great Britain were also

4:27:134:27:17

the ones completely divested

of

passenger operations. Given the

4:27:174:27:26

franchising problem since then, this

would appear to me to be another

4:27:264:27:29

clear example of the UK Government

leading the world, bit leading the

4:27:294:27:32

world in completely the wrong path.

But the real privatisation did give

4:27:324:27:40

raises scratch macro ask, was a

complex model of interactions,

4:27:404:27:47

convex ticket arrangements and away

for companies to play a blame game

4:27:474:27:52

and blame each other for problems.

These issues are summed up in the

4:27:524:27:57

National audit report that has come

out in terms of southern rails

4:27:574:28:00

franchise. The main conclusions from

that report is that it cannot be

4:28:004:28:04

demonstrated that this franchise has

delivered value for money. The

4:28:044:28:08

operator blames Network Rail and the

unions. The Government blames the

4:28:084:28:12

unions and we heard that again from

the dispatch box, and the Government

4:28:124:28:15

ignores their part in all of this.

62% of cancellations were due to

4:28:154:28:21

Thames Link and 40% duty Network

Rail. It was the UK Government that

4:28:214:28:24

set up a model that was supposed to

align the complex infrastructure

4:28:244:28:29

upgrades, it was the UK Government

that at the revenue risk, that

4:28:294:28:32

actually cost the taxpayer money,

and the UK Government that awarded

4:28:324:28:37

the franchise on an even high

roll-out of driver only operation.

4:28:374:28:40

The UK Government and the Transport

Secretary initial unwillingness to

4:28:404:28:44

get involved is absolutely shameful.

The NAO report also makes it quite

4:28:444:28:49

clear that the Department for

Transport, with the largest

4:28:494:28:52

responsibility in regards to access

to network and timetabling pressures

4:28:524:28:55

were ignored. I would also highlight

the Department for Transport

4:28:554:29:02

failings Arabic consent going

forward giving the lack of

4:29:024:29:04

understanding and the pressures in

terms of upgrading the system and

4:29:044:29:08

timetabling. I have concerns that

this will impact the West Coast

4:29:084:29:12

franchise and a HS2 award. I would

like to ask the minister if this is

4:29:124:29:15

why the invitation to tender has

still not been issued and we do not

4:29:154:29:22

know when it will be issued. Other

franchise issues have been the

4:29:224:29:28

failed award of the West Coast

franchise in 2012, which am quite

4:29:284:29:33

sure, had virgin actually won that

award, they would have taken it at

4:29:334:29:36

the time rather than threatening

court action. That already led to

4:29:364:29:41

direct awards, and contrary to

library briefing, 1216 franchises

4:29:414:29:45

has now been subject to direct

awards. Therefore, further failures

4:29:454:29:50

of the Department for Transport

means that these direct awards

4:29:504:29:53

gathers the worst both worlds. There

is no competition, there is no

4:29:534:29:58

incentive for long-term investment,

yet the companies are still

4:29:584:30:02

guaranteed to make money. That

really is a poor setup.

The direct

4:30:024:30:08

awards at the West Coast franchise,

according to the House of Commons

4:30:084:30:11

briefing from the library, mentions

a commitment to work to remodel the

4:30:114:30:17

junction they see as a significant

bottleneck on the network. Anybody

4:30:174:30:22

on a network would know that that is

time that could make the journey

4:30:224:30:27

more attractive. Would you agree

that we need more investment is the

4:30:274:30:31

bottlenecks improved?

I thank my

honourable friend for that

4:30:314:30:35

intervention and I certainly agree

with her, the Carstairs Junction is

4:30:354:30:43

a potential blockage that HS2.

Hopefully they managed to listen to

4:30:434:30:46

that intervention and can explain

why the remodelling and why that is

4:30:464:30:50

not happened yet.

I wonder whether

he and his party have considered at

4:30:504:31:00

a told a recent report, 18 months

ago, from the competition markets

4:31:004:31:03

authority, calling for greater on

track competition, but within

4:31:034:31:10

franchises, as an alternative to the

increasing allocation of monopolies

4:31:104:31:14

through franchising as an

alternative approach to franchising

4:31:144:31:16

instead.

I am not against

competition per se, and there is

4:31:164:31:22

lots of information on models which

are deemed to work better than

4:31:224:31:25

others. But, certainly one aspect I

would say of competition, the public

4:31:254:31:30

sector should be allowed to make

their own bids, and the public

4:31:304:31:33

sector should be allowed to operate

franchises. A bit of competition

4:31:334:31:36

might do well to drive innovation,

but in no way should the public

4:31:364:31:43

sector be barred from that

competition. Moving on, we then have

4:31:434:31:50

the shambles on the east coast line.

The Transport Secretary stood there

4:31:504:31:53

again and said there is no bailout.

The response was that claiming the

4:31:534:32:00

parent companies will protect the

taxpayer. We now have the

4:32:004:32:03

confirmation that the franchise were

back loaded, so Virgin are able to

4:32:034:32:08

work away without being able to pay

the £2 billion track fees they are

4:32:084:32:12

supposed to play and that was

confirmed at the dispatch box. The

4:32:124:32:15

Transport Secretary said it is OK

because we will get £155 million

4:32:154:32:20

company guarantee. That 155 million

is less than £2 billion premium fees

4:32:204:32:27

that the taxpayer would otherwise

have received. It is a nonsense

4:32:274:32:30

argument. To say the franchise might

have failed is no excuse will stop

4:32:304:32:34

again, that is testament to the

failed model that is currently in

4:32:344:32:37

operation with UK Government. The

very fact that Stagecoach shares

4:32:374:32:42

went up on the news of the new model

proposed by the Transport Secretary,

4:32:424:32:46

says he was walking away with the

best deal from the new arrangements.

4:32:464:32:53

The east coast mainline services are

proof that public ownership can

4:32:534:32:56

work. The previous franchise failed

it was successfully run as a public

4:32:564:33:00

operation. That public operation

paid over £1 billion in track rental

4:33:004:33:05

fees to the taxpayer and also

returned a nominal profit of £42

4:33:054:33:10

million for an overall operation.

That £42 million is something that

4:33:104:33:13

the large private companies would

not suffer because they think that

4:33:134:33:19

is too low. But for the public

sector, £42 million profit is

4:33:194:33:26

welcome and drives further

investment. That is a failure of the

4:33:264:33:29

franchise, it only allows big

companies do operate, and they chase

4:33:294:33:33

massive profits, at the behest of

their shareholders. Going forward,

4:33:334:33:39

the public-private alliance model

proposed by the Transport Secretary

4:33:394:33:41

in theory might be an improvement,

but again it is absolutely bonkers

4:33:414:33:44

not to revert to that model on the

public franchise. The new model

4:33:444:33:53

might continue multilayer operations

interactions and either timetabling

4:33:534:33:56

to get that into place as outlined

in the honourable member for

4:33:564:34:01

Middlesbrough.

I'm grateful for

giving way. One of these new models

4:34:014:34:07

is the Oxford- Cambridge line, where

the Transport Secretary has said

4:34:074:34:10

that he is happy to devolve power to

a private company. Does my

4:34:104:34:13

honourable friend find it strange

that he would not be willing to

4:34:134:34:17

devolve such an operation in Network

Rail to Scotland? That they can make

4:34:174:34:20

a real difference to people and the

travelling public?

I was going to

4:34:204:34:26

come out later on, but I cannot

understand the UK Government

4:34:264:34:30

intransigence about devolving

Network Rail, that has shown that it

4:34:304:34:33

will take save the taxpayer £30

million and make it more accountable

4:34:334:34:36

to the Scottish Dublin. I previously

touched on the demise of British

4:34:364:34:45

rail, privatisation is clear and we

have heard that there is an increase

4:34:454:34:48

in passenger numbers and increase in

investment. Again, this goes back to

4:34:484:34:52

the cause and effect. It is not a

direct consequence of privatisation.

4:34:524:34:57

It did allow private investment to

beleaguered in, but this private

4:34:574:35:01

investment is recouped through

passenger fares and public subsidy.

4:35:014:35:04

That is the bottom line. Actually,

when the Government allowed private

4:35:044:35:07

investment to come in, and then took

the decision to be a bit bolder in

4:35:074:35:12

the specifications for the

franchises in terms of increased

4:35:124:35:15

services, new rolling stock and

other improvements. But that same

4:35:154:35:18

ambition can be replicated by

nationalisation or allowing public

4:35:184:35:24

sector investment rather than being

region to private investment. So,

4:35:244:35:29

also following privatisation was an

upturn in the economy. There is a

4:35:294:35:33

range of factors that have

contributed to better passenger

4:35:334:35:36

ignorance and increased numbers. The

trust was Secretary needs to move

4:35:364:35:40

away from his private equals good

and public equals bad and

4:35:404:35:44

inefficient mentality. I fear today

that there is no sign of that

4:35:444:35:47

changing. Labour did renege on the

1997 manifesto to renationalise the

4:35:474:35:55

rail system, but at least they did

commission on the review in 2000 and

4:35:554:35:59

92 get better value money for the

railway system for spectacular. It

4:35:594:36:04

is incredible that the Tory

Government has sat on support for

4:36:044:36:08

six years becoming modest proposals

for bringing into line the model.

4:36:084:36:15

Alliances can be made to work better

than the current franchise system.

4:36:154:36:23

It is the only franchise that

stipulates all staff must be paid in

4:36:234:36:28

living wage. It guarantees trade

union representation at every board

4:36:284:36:32

meeting, no compulsory redundancies

and 100 new apprentices. Rather than

4:36:324:36:37

making stuff terms and conditions

the mechanism for profit, the

4:36:374:36:40

Scottish Government has actually

incorporated and protected terms and

4:36:404:36:44

conditions for the start into the

contract. In terms of passenger

4:36:444:36:49

experience and rolling stock, 22%

more carriages, and a drive to

4:36:494:36:53

expand tourism. These aims and

ambitions and protections compare

4:36:534:37:00

directly to the attitude from the

Secretary of State and the Tory

4:37:004:37:04

suburban rail franchise. That is not

to say that there went teething

4:37:044:37:09

problems with the new Abellio

Alliance. It is now the best

4:37:094:37:12

performing franchise in the UK. Even

so, the Scottish gunmen have put in

4:37:124:37:16

place measures to allow a public

sector picture meant to be submitted

4:37:164:37:20

either at the end of the franchise

or at a midpoint with possible

4:37:204:37:23

break. And the success of ferries

competing in the private sector

4:37:234:37:29

shows how this can be achieved and

work successfully. Going forward, as

4:37:294:37:36

shown with interventions, if Network

Rail is devolved to Scotland under

4:37:364:37:45

the control of the Scottish

Government, then the operation of

4:37:454:37:48

rail services in Scotland would be

much more efficient and there would

4:37:484:37:53

be a far greater accountability and

allow us to move forward better.

I

4:37:534:37:57

think you forgiving way. Would you

accept that as well as Network Rail

4:37:574:38:04

devolution, the powers of control of

evolved franchises was devolved in

4:38:044:38:11

May 2016, web public sector business

to be brought forward for ScotRail.

4:38:114:38:14

But that was well known in advance

of the current tender. Is it not the

4:38:144:38:18

case that ScotRail could be in

public hands today if the Scottish

4:38:184:38:21

gunmen had not delayed tender?

I

thank my honourable member for the

4:38:214:38:26

intervention. Just a small history

lesson. It was a UK Labour

4:38:264:38:30

Government that refuse to hand over

these powers to Scotland. They had a

4:38:304:38:35

chance in 2000 and 2005, since the

SNP Government came in power in

4:38:354:38:40

2007, three Secretary of State of

transport wrote to ask the and her

4:38:404:38:47

pals to Scotland and three times

that was refused. That process, the

4:38:474:38:53

short list was drawn up in 2013, in

means the contracts and invitation

4:38:534:38:58

to tender was way before that. And

the contract was awarded in 2014, a

4:38:584:39:04

year and a half before the new

powers came into play. It is as Lily

4:39:044:39:08

ridiculous to say the Scottish

gunmen sat on our hands and waited

4:39:084:39:11

on future powers that might or might

not have came. They did come and the

4:39:114:39:15

Scottish Government is going to use

them in the future in that public

4:39:154:39:18

sector did, I think the honourable

member for that intervention.

Would

4:39:184:39:28

you agree in the casework experience

that we have that at the moment

4:39:284:39:31

Network Rail is not an accountable

body at all. When you try to raise

4:39:314:39:36

constituent cases or complaints

about works on the line, or things

4:39:364:39:39

to do, it is very difficult to get

any answers, because they do not

4:39:394:39:43

want to consult. They just want to

do things and pay lip service to

4:39:434:39:47

community engagement.

It is

certainly a big problem, Network

4:39:474:39:50

Rail is too big and effectively

accountable to two governments,

4:39:504:39:53

causes further problems. Clearly the

Labour called for a

4:39:534:40:02

renationalisation, is something I am

against and has clear merits on

4:40:024:40:07

keeping all monies in the public

purse. I do have some concern about

4:40:074:40:10

the way the model was proposed in

the manifesto, and that touches on

4:40:104:40:17

that intervention from my honourable

friend. What it does show through

4:40:174:40:20

the proposed model, we believe the

railway can be nationalised through

4:40:204:40:24

the EU single market, giving the EU

firewall proposed between rail

4:40:244:40:28

access and network operation side of

the business. The argument that you

4:40:284:40:32

cannot be in the single market and

have a national railway is clearly

4:40:324:40:36

false, and the Labour Party has

recognised that themselves. We do

4:40:364:40:40

know that the nationalisation works

given how many state owned railway

4:40:404:40:44

companies operate in the UK

currently. Of course, they are also

4:40:444:40:48

doing so under EU rules. Therefore,

the cheery anti-nationalisation

4:40:484:40:53

attitude is clearly utter nonsense.

The library briefing and railway

4:40:534:40:59

structure at there is no best... It

gives excellent examples. What is

4:40:594:41:05

clear, is that public sector

involvement, state owned franchises

4:41:054:41:10

can work. The UK, at the moment, has

a franchise model that has not

4:41:104:41:15

worked effectively and there is

absolutely no doubt that a change of

4:41:154:41:17

thinking is required.

There is now a

limit of four minutes on backbench

4:41:174:41:23

speeches.

Thank you Madam Deputy

Speaker. What we have heard from the

4:41:234:41:31

Secretary of State quite rightly, is

that there is record investment in

4:41:314:41:34

the railways and a record number of

passengers. Yet, members opposite

4:41:344:41:42

IKEA to criticise the running of the

railways. We are going to say, I am

4:41:424:41:48

sure, many tales of woe from

backbenchers opposite. But, the

4:41:484:41:52

reality is very different. Yes,

there are problems, and we have

4:41:524:41:55

heard from my right honourable

friend about Virgin, east coast

4:41:554:42:01

situation. Which is not desirable.

But of course, to some extent,

4:42:014:42:06

Virgin predicated on projections of

income on improvements to be made by

4:42:064:42:12

Network Rail. And of course, Network

Rail, being a nationalised

4:42:124:42:16

organisation, usually delivers late

and over budget.

4:42:164:42:23

Virgin, I would accept, and the

Secretary of State was somewhat

4:42:244:42:28

critical of them, clearly should

have taken note of the fact that

4:42:284:42:31

Network Rail failed to deliver on

the promises made on the West Coast

4:42:314:42:36

route some years ago. So I think

there is quite legitimate blame on

4:42:364:42:41

both sides. Madam Deputy Speaker,

regrettably I am old enough to

4:42:414:42:48

actually remember the is a British

rail, a failed nationalised

4:42:484:42:53

monolith, you only had to mention

British rail, it was a watchword for

4:42:534:42:59

failure. Until 1992, for example,

there were direct train services to

4:42:594:43:07

my own constituency in Cleethorpes.

British rail cut those. As the new

4:43:074:43:15

minister who I welcome to his post

will hear a lot from you about the

4:43:154:43:21

need for through services to Grimsby

and Cleethorpes. The government to

4:43:214:43:25

support the rail network to an

enormous extent. There was an

4:43:254:43:30

article in rail magazine on October

13, many of the figures were

4:43:304:43:36

repeated in the times in a column

last week when £925 million were

4:43:364:43:42

invested by the private sector in

the rail network during the year

4:43:424:43:46

2016-17. The Shadow Secretary of

State, he failed to identify how a

4:43:464:43:55

Labour proposal would actually bring

forth that money. The reality is, as

4:43:554:44:00

we know, you can usually predict

that when cuts come, as they do in

4:44:004:44:05

every government, the first thing

that goes is capital infrastructure

4:44:054:44:08

expenditure. And there is no way

that a re-nationalise network under

4:44:084:44:15

a Labour government would be able to

raise approaching £1 billion a year

4:44:154:44:21

that the private sector are

currently investing.

I am grateful

4:44:214:44:27

to him giving way. How does the

honourable member think that a state

4:44:274:44:33

owned German rail company that owns

a substantial chunk of our

4:44:334:44:37

franchises makes a profit? It

invests that profit it makes here in

4:44:374:44:43

our private eye system in their own

system in subsidised fares there.

4:44:434:44:47

That seems ludicrous to me and most

of the travelling public.

Perhaps

4:44:474:44:53

they are a bit more free market and

capitalist minded over in Germany!

4:44:534:45:01

If I can come to open access

operators, Madam Deputy Speaker, we

4:45:014:45:06

have seen competition. At the moment

competition is for the franchise

4:45:064:45:10

will stop what we want is more

competition on the actual running of

4:45:104:45:15

services, and one way we can achieve

that is by open access operators.

4:45:154:45:21

Hull trains and Grand Central both

run on these coast main line and

4:45:214:45:25

provide services to areas that in

the main do not get a service from

4:45:254:45:32

the main franchise holder, and

indeed Grand Central I understand

4:45:324:45:35

Madam Deputy Speaker are shortly to

put forward a proposal for direct

4:45:354:45:39

trains from King's Cross through to

Scunthorpe, Grimsby and Cleethorpes,

4:45:394:45:43

and I hope the new minister will be

very supportive of that, it will be

4:45:434:45:47

a great boost to the local economy.

I thank my honourable friend, Percy

4:45:474:45:58

agree with me that way you see open

access you tend to see a higher

4:45:584:46:03

satisfaction rate amongst passengers

and rail users?

Is absolutely right,

4:46:034:46:09

Hull trains and Grand Central get

very high satisfaction rates. The

4:46:094:46:14

house needs to take note of the

transport select committee's report

4:46:144:46:19

into rail franchising from last

year, when in relation to open

4:46:194:46:23

access, it says open access has been

a success, albeit on a limited scale

4:46:234:46:28

to date. The balance of evidence

points to potential benefits in open

4:46:284:46:33

access having an expanded role on

long-distance routes. It says

4:46:334:46:38

reforms are needed if open access is

to be expanded on the network. We

4:46:384:46:42

recommend the department and the LR

work together -- the oh.

4:46:424:46:49

I very much hope, I think the new

manager, I hope, will -- the new

4:46:504:47:00

minister will make one of his

priorities looking closely into how

4:47:004:47:03

we can introduce more open access

operations into the railway and

4:47:034:47:08

actually genuinely provide

contribution and improve services

4:47:084:47:14

particularly on those routes that

are struggling at the moment.

4:47:144:47:16

Reference has been made to the

ticket fare increases. And it is a

4:47:164:47:23

fair point, though there has to be a

balance between what the taxpayer is

4:47:234:47:27

prepared to put into the network,

and I gather the figure from Murgia,

4:47:274:47:33

a net figure, was at 800? I have

lost the figure, where is my chart,

4:47:334:47:37

here we are! 4.2 billion, that's

right, 4.2 billion during the last

4:47:374:47:44

financial year was the net

contribution from the taxpayer. Not

4:47:444:47:48

an insignificant amount. While

mentioning fares, could I be

4:47:484:47:55

critical of the rail regulators? So

often tickets are not checked,

4:47:554:48:00

barriers at stations do not operate.

That is something that urgently

4:48:004:48:02

needs looking at.

No other nation in

the world runs its railways like the

4:48:024:48:11

UK has since the flawed and

ideological fragmentation and

4:48:114:48:14

privatisation carried out by the

major government in the mid-19 90s.

4:48:144:48:18

There is a reason for that, because

it just doesn't work very well. It

4:48:184:48:23

particularly hasn't worked on these

coast male line. Since rail

4:48:234:48:26

privatisation of the three private

operators, one has gone bust, one

4:48:264:48:31

has defaulted on the contract and

now another one has been allowed to

4:48:314:48:36

avoid payments of hundreds of

millions of pounds that it undertook

4:48:364:48:40

to pay, possibly up to £2 billion,

to the taxpayer. This latest

4:48:404:48:46

financing failure is a capitulation

by the Transport Secretary to Virgin

4:48:464:48:52

Trains's demand to be that offer

consequences of its over bidding to

4:48:524:48:55

get the contract. Transport

Secretary has done this in an effort

4:48:554:48:59

to prevent the embarrassing

spectacle another very public

4:48:594:49:01

failure in the private operation of

east coast in the city. This follows

4:49:014:49:07

his predecessor's ideological image

of a the decision to strip directly

4:49:074:49:12

operated rail of the operation of

these coast mainline mere weeks

4:49:124:49:15

ahead of the 2015 general election.

And the Transport Secretary in doing

4:49:154:49:22

this has simply given into the self

interested demands and very costly

4:49:224:49:26

demands of this trade operating

company. The only east coast

4:49:264:49:30

operator that has not gone bust

faulted or received a bailout from

4:49:304:49:34

the taxpayer has been these coast

mainline, -- east coast main line.

4:49:344:49:42

Established by Lord Dennis when he

was Transport Secretary in 2009. In

4:49:424:49:45

other words a publicly owned company

-- Lord Adonis. Its record is clear.

4:49:454:50:00

It made all required service

payments, returning over £1 billion

4:50:004:50:03

to the Treasury. It invested all of

its profits straight back into

4:50:034:50:09

services, paying out zero dividends

to greedy private owners because it

4:50:094:50:12

didn't have any, and it achieved

some of the best results on the east

4:50:124:50:16

coast of any operator since records

began.

On that very point, on the

4:50:164:50:23

east coast main line, because of the

ideological decision of the

4:50:234:50:25

government, we have actually forgone

profits back to the Treasury of £1

4:50:254:50:31

billion, and, at the same time,

allowing the private franchise not

4:50:314:50:36

to pay £2.1 billion to retain the

franchise. That is economic madness,

4:50:364:50:41

on the basis of returning it --

retaining it in the private sector.

4:50:414:50:45

The honourable gentleman is correct,

clearly it has been money no object

4:50:454:50:50

to try to avoid the embarrassment of

yet another failure of this

4:50:504:50:54

franchise in the hands of a private

operator. So why did the coalition

4:50:544:51:00

government agree? The date is a

clue, it was just weeks ahead of the

4:51:004:51:07

2015 general election. It was

actually cynical, ideological

4:51:074:51:10

motivated and very costly to the

public purse. Our policy at the time

4:51:104:51:14

was very clear, it was to keep east

coast in public hands to act as a

4:51:144:51:18

public sector comparator. To enable

us gradually as franchises ended to

4:51:184:51:29

take the operation of the railways

back into public ownership without

4:51:294:51:34

having to pay out the buy-back

contracts. Just changing the order

4:51:344:51:42

in franchise competitions to enable

it to be done cost the public purse

4:51:424:51:44

hundreds of millions of pounds.

Indeed, the consequences of that

4:51:444:51:49

lamentable decision are being seen

today in the ongoing chaos and waste

4:51:494:51:52

of money that the franchising system

is inflicting on our railways. Now

4:51:524:51:58

spectacularly reinforced by the

Transport Secretary's at pictures on

4:51:584:52:02

to the financial interest of the

private trade operating --

4:52:024:52:04

capitulation. The Transport

Secretary is institutionalising

4:52:044:52:11

massive taxpayer bailouts, which he

has renamed partnerships. I predict

4:52:114:52:15

this point be the last such bailout.

He has effectively institutionalise,

4:52:154:52:20

giving into the tendency that

private companies have shown over

4:52:204:52:23

the years of gaining the -- gaming

the franchise system, whilst

4:52:234:52:27

avoiding making payments which they

are contracted to make. Virgin are

4:52:274:52:35

not the first train operating

Company to do this, they will be the

4:52:354:52:38

last.

4:52:384:52:44

They can be abandoned with no

penalty attached for behaving badly.

4:52:484:52:52

The government are

institutionalising the reality that

4:52:524:52:54

private companies take the profits,

but the taxpayer provides nearly all

4:52:544:52:58

the investment in trains, track and

infrastructure, as well as covering

4:52:584:53:02

any losses. It is the very

definition of a licence to print

4:53:024:53:06

money. Private train bosses are

simply laughing all the way to the

4:53:064:53:10

bank. The Secretary of State for

ideological reasons is allowing them

4:53:104:53:15

to do so. We can't go on like this.

It is time this costly and failing

4:53:154:53:21

system was ended. It hasn't worked,

it won't work in the future, we need

4:53:214:53:27

to make sure we do things better.

It

is a pleasure to follow the right

4:53:274:53:36

honourable lady for Garsden and

Helmot, despite me not agreeing with

4:53:364:53:41

what she had to say. The cost of an

annual ticket from Colchester to

4:53:414:53:47

London is now £5,104. I am in no

doubt that this is a huge amount of

4:53:474:53:52

money for my constituents. Yet

despite what the opposition claims,

4:53:524:53:57

pleading the right honourable lady,

these fares are not lining the

4:53:574:54:00

pockets of rail companies. 97p in

every £1 of a fair goes on the

4:54:004:54:08

running and improvement of our

railways. However when our

4:54:084:54:11

constituents pay this amount of

travelling to work, they need to see

4:54:114:54:13

value for money. To be fair,

passengers on our servers will see

4:54:134:54:20

real benefits from our new

franchise. Over 1000 brand-new

4:54:204:54:24

carriages coming into service from

next jerk, all at a cost of over £1

4:54:244:54:27

billion. I assumed that is another

£1 billion that the party opposite

4:54:274:54:33

would borrow? Free Wi-Fi for all

passengers at stations and on

4:54:334:54:37

trains. Automatic delay repave the

season ticket holders and those who

4:54:374:54:42

bought their tickets in advance will

stop all of these things will make a

4:54:424:54:45

massive difference. The only ask I

would make of the department is that

4:54:454:54:50

the new 15 minute threshold for the

Labour pay, which was announced

4:54:504:54:54

after a Bellew were rule ordered

their contract, as things stand,

4:54:544:55:00

that means they won't likely be

introduced until a new franchise is

4:55:004:55:03

awarded in 2025. My constituents,

Tampa and I would like to see that

4:55:034:55:13

implemented the see of the

department can make that happen as

4:55:134:55:16

soon as possible. However I am not

going to stand here and pretend that

4:55:164:55:19

the current franchise system is

perfect. Which issues with

4:55:194:55:27

competition,...

Would he agree with

me that there was still the same

4:55:274:55:33

companies bidding and ordered off

competition amongst bidders?

I sat

4:55:334:55:39

on the transport select committee

and he is right, on the invitation

4:55:394:55:42

to tender on our most recent

franchise on the great Eastern

4:55:424:55:47

mainline, the three companies who

put in

4:55:474:55:58

Abellio.

4:56:034:56:07

Multi-million pounds bonds put up by

Company is looking to run services

4:56:084:56:11

and lots of risk even the large

companies. In my view, we should be

4:56:114:56:15

looking at creating smaller

franchises, which carry less risk.

4:56:154:56:19

Therefore they can attract more

interest and more bids, delivering

4:56:194:56:23

more competition and therefore

ultimately better value for money

4:56:234:56:24

for the taxpayer. --

4:56:244:56:33

He's talking about competition,

would then councils and local

4:56:334:56:37

authorities and other public bodies

bid for franchises, not be a good

4:56:374:56:41

way of making sure there is more

competition and competition that

4:56:414:56:44

people can control?

I think most

likely not. But I do actually agree

4:56:444:56:52

that we do need more competition. In

particular, and I agree with my

4:56:524:56:57

honourable friend that we need more

open access.

My honourable friend is

4:56:574:57:00

making a very fine point. I welcome

the contribution made. I do welcome

4:57:004:57:05

the idea of more competition. I

would welcome the idea of groups in

4:57:054:57:10

the charitable and non-profitable

sector. The idea that the should

4:57:104:57:15

risk taxpayers money is what we are

moving away from.

My honourable

4:57:154:57:20

friend makes a very eloquent point.

He is absolutely right. We do need

4:57:204:57:24

to look at more open access is two

or more companies can compete on the

4:57:244:57:33

same franchise, wherever the line

can support it. I appreciate there

4:57:334:57:36

are lots that can't, and this is a

prime example of where that would be

4:57:364:57:40

difficult to do. Where we do have

open access, it does tend to be

4:57:404:57:45

higher satisfaction ratings with

operators. Proof that competition

4:57:454:57:49

can offer benefits for passengers.

Another idea that I think be

4:57:494:57:52

improved is ticketing. I would like

season tickets to take inspiration

4:57:524:57:57

from the fair capping that we have

on the Underground. There is a

4:57:574:58:02

substantial discount to buying an

annual ticket as opposed to monthly.

4:58:024:58:06

If you employer does not offer you a

season ticket loan, it could be

4:58:064:58:09

difficult to afford a one-off

payment, offer in-depth thousands of

4:58:094:58:14

pounds, Colchester to London is

about £5,000. Passengers should not

4:58:144:58:17

pay more because they can afford a

large amount in one go. I would urge

4:58:174:58:22

the Government to look into capping

season ticket travellers as part of

4:58:224:58:26

new franchises so that new

passengers will never pay more for

4:58:264:58:30

an annual ticket in a single year.

This will save commuters hundreds of

4:58:304:58:34

pounds and would be made easier by

the implementation of Smart

4:58:344:58:37

ticketing which we are seeing being

rolled out across franchises. Our

4:58:374:58:43

rail network has undergone an extra

ordinary transformation since

4:58:434:58:47

privatisation. Passenger journeys

are down a third since 1960 and

4:58:474:58:52

1995, have doubled. We have one of

the safest railway networks in

4:58:524:58:56

Europe. The focus must now be on

doubling down on competition and

4:58:564:59:00

value for money as part of the

franchising process. Not taking away

4:59:004:59:05

all competition and returning to the

days of British rail. I would

4:59:054:59:08

encourage the Government to set a 40

year vision of how to transform our

4:59:084:59:13

railways, not listen to the

opposition's plans on how to return

4:59:134:59:17

our railway last seen 40 years ago.

It has been quite a week for the

4:59:174:59:24

Transport Secretary, but I think

even by his standards, this debate

4:59:244:59:27

might qualify as a low point. My

constituents listening to this

4:59:274:59:33

debate will be absolutely astonished

to hear the very rosy picture that

4:59:334:59:40

he painted about a daily commute

from my constituents in Wigan, but a

4:59:404:59:44

daily struggle. To get onto trains

older than I am, often late,

4:59:444:59:49

overcrowded, dirty and cold, and

every year they are rewarded by

4:59:494:59:52

seeing their fares go up. The human

cost of this is enormous. Every week

4:59:524:59:56

I am contacted by a constituent who

is tired and stressed and anxious

4:59:565:00:01

about money, or he was seriously

considering giving up their job

5:00:015:00:03

because they do not know how many

more bedtimes, bath times or story

5:00:035:00:08

times with their kids they can miss.

Because we are failing in one of the

5:00:085:00:12

very basic functions of the state,

to provide a decent public transport

5:00:125:00:17

service. In towns like mind this has

a much wider... I will take one

5:00:175:00:21

intervention.

I think you forgiving

way. We have been hearing from

5:00:215:00:29

Conservative members that higher

fares would find improved services.

5:00:295:00:33

I come from Manchester, a city which

has a first railway station, yet we

5:00:335:00:40

find they are in desperate need of

investment. They have been hit by

5:00:405:00:47

consistent flooding over the

holidays, four days, posing a real

5:00:475:00:52

danger to passenger safety. That

station, in the 21st century, still

5:00:525:00:58

does not have disability access. I

think, ultimately, the passengers

5:00:585:01:04

who are paying higher fares...

Order! I tried the honorary male

5:01:045:01:10

gentleman to make his point. He is

-- honourable. A longer speech than

5:01:105:01:19

people sitting here will get to make

a next half an hour because we will

5:01:195:01:22

have very tight time limits. Many

people have made very long

5:01:225:01:28

interventions and that means that

some other people won't get to speak

5:01:285:01:31

at all. If honourable members want

to be fair, then they know how to do

5:01:315:01:36

so.

He is right of course, because

in a town like mine which is typical

5:01:365:01:44

of many towns around the country

where people commute into nearby

5:01:445:01:46

cities for work, Manchester being

mine. So, I am familiar with it. Two

5:01:465:01:54

thirds of our constituents commute

out of the borough for work every

5:01:545:01:56

single day. And for our town, the

economic interest is enormous,

5:01:565:02:03

because when they returned back to

Wigan, they spend in our local shops

5:02:035:02:07

and businesses, they sustain our

high street, our local pubs. And he

5:02:075:02:11

will know as well as I do, the towns

across this country are ageing.

5:02:115:02:15

Centre the town 's research launched

last year, showed the towns lost 35

5:02:155:02:20

million people under the age of 25

over the last 30 years. So, public

5:02:205:02:26

transport is the artery that keeps

the beating heart in towns like

5:02:265:02:29

mine. And it has actually been

always thus. Towns like Manchester

5:02:295:02:34

and Birmingham, grew and thrived

because of the development of the

5:02:345:02:39

railways which enabled them to trade

with one another. How is it that 200

5:02:395:02:43

years later we have a report from

the IPPR, that finds it takes longer

5:02:435:02:48

to get from Liverpool to Hull, and

from London to Paris? I will give

5:02:485:02:53

him one example of why these

decisions being made hundreds of

5:02:535:02:58

miles away from the people affected

are really quite broken. In 2015 the

5:02:585:03:03

Department for Transport awarded the

Northern Rail franchise to Ariva,

5:03:035:03:12

and as part of the deal that will it

will give a better service, they

5:03:125:03:15

axed the service through Southport.

Two thirds of the people commute to

5:03:155:03:21

the south side of the city, they

were told by their Government and

5:03:215:03:24

instead they could commute to the

north side of the city and arrive at

5:03:245:03:28

work mid-morning. If they had been

consulted at all they would have

5:03:285:03:32

told the Secretary of State why that

was a problem and it has taken five

5:03:325:03:38

MPs from three political parties,

two years of hard work to try and

5:03:385:03:41

persuade the Government to sort this

out. And we still haven't managed to

5:03:415:03:45

resolve it. No wonder then, that

there are four and a half times more

5:03:455:03:49

people the commute by train in

London than as a proportion of the

5:03:495:03:54

population in my region in the

north-west. Because these decisions

5:03:545:03:57

made hundreds of miles away from the

people who are affected with no

5:03:575:04:02

understanding and no thought given

to the reality of their daily lives.

5:04:025:04:05

I would say to the Minister, who

isn't paying attention at the

5:04:055:04:09

moment, that he will soon have to

pay attention, because the level of

5:04:095:04:12

anger that this is creating across

this country, is an immense. The

5:04:125:04:18

data analyst Tom fourth pointed out

recently that for a scheme to be

5:04:185:04:21

funded in Leeds, in needs to be

providing twice the return on

5:04:215:04:26

investment as a scheme in London.

How can that be sustainable? I were

5:04:265:04:29

to say this to the Minister, that if

we were given the power to make

5:04:295:04:34

these decisions for ourselves, we

would have made very, very different

5:04:345:04:40

decisions in recent years. We would

have prioritised local services and

5:04:405:04:44

connecting up our great regional

cities before we had started in

5:04:445:04:49

investing in HS2. We would never

have got into this situation where

5:04:495:04:52

we were faced with losing the guard

on the trade, because I tell him

5:04:525:04:57

what this will do. It will make our

railways no go areas are many

5:04:575:05:02

people, including women later night,

people with disabilities. Talk far

5:05:025:05:09

more about buses, now in my

constituency for a family it is

5:05:095:05:15

often cheaper to get a taxi down a

bus, how was that sustainable? The

5:05:155:05:19

Secretary of State a few years ago

was refund of the phrase take back

5:05:195:05:23

control. If he means anything by his

word, then give us back control,

5:05:235:05:28

because we could hardly do worse

than this moment.

Following what I

5:05:285:05:32

said a few moments ago, I have to

reduce the time limit to three

5:05:325:05:35

minutes.

Thank you, it is a great

pleasure to follow the honourable

5:05:355:05:42

lady of the Wigan and talk in this

debate. I thought this morning as I

5:05:425:05:45

walked through on my daily commute

to this place, because I'm one of

5:05:455:05:48

the perhaps few people fortunate

enough to be able to commute from

5:05:485:05:52

east Sussex to this place will stop

London Bridge station, which has

5:05:525:05:56

caused me and many of my

constituents are enormous

5:05:565:06:00

difficulties with its rebuilt and

reconstruction of tracks, now looks

5:06:005:06:03

absolutely fantastic. It is a shiny

example of the £40 billion

5:06:035:06:08

investment that this Government has

made into the railways and the

5:06:085:06:10

difference in now makes. I want to

talk up our railways and the success

5:06:105:06:14

of it. M bid at both under this

administration and indeed the last

5:06:145:06:19

Labour administration, since 1997,

the number of passengers on our rail

5:06:195:06:23

has now doubled. It lightly pays for

itself, it does not need the 2

5:06:235:06:28

billion pounds a year taxpayer

subsidy that was taken not to

5:06:285:06:32

properly run things. We have a rail

system that, when we compare our

5:06:325:06:36

position to Europe, we have the

second safest railway after Ireland.

5:06:365:06:41

We have the second-best performing

railway in terms of passenger

5:06:415:06:46

performance feedback, second only to

Finland. We utilise it more than 60%

5:06:465:06:51

greater than the European average.

And we have put in more investment

5:06:515:06:56

into our Galloway than any other you

country. We should talk up its

5:06:565:07:01

success. Not only that, it employs

250,000 people, it releases £11

5:07:015:07:07

billion of costs that would be

their... It reduces CO2 by million

5:07:075:07:13

tonnes and adds 10,000,000,020 BA.

We should talk about our success of

5:07:135:07:20

our rail story. But, of course there

are challenges. We have seen

5:07:205:07:23

challenges in the southern network

where we have really suffered with

5:07:235:07:28

strikes and a poor performing

operator. That has been laid bare

5:07:285:07:30

today. We should not forget that the

unionisation of a rail network has

5:07:305:07:36

caused enormous problems. It should

be well remembered that the same

5:07:365:07:39

train drivers that have now pledged

to drive these chains that they said

5:07:395:07:43

was otherwise say, had taken a 28.5%

pay rise. That is a much greater pay

5:07:435:07:48

rise only passengers who are paying

the rail ticket issue. All

5:07:485:07:52

honourable members need to recognise

that those costs and up with our

5:07:525:07:56

passengers paying more and more.

With the last 30 seconds, let's give

5:07:565:08:01

something back to the passengers. At

the moment, Network Rail has to

5:08:015:08:05

compensate rail operators for any

delays that may have been caused by

5:08:055:08:09

them. Only a third of the passengers

that experience those same delays

5:08:095:08:14

actually claim it back. Therefore,

train operators are keeping that

5:08:145:08:17

money. I would like this train

operators to be required to bank

5:08:175:08:21

that money... I will give way.

Are

you making the point that I suspect

5:08:215:08:26

you will about automatic delay repay

and that being included in future

5:08:265:08:30

franchises? Tell I am indeed. I

thank you for helping me finish my

5:08:305:08:33

sentence. If you are making up money

that can only be spent on new

5:08:335:08:43

technology so that anybody would be

required to tap in and tap off their

5:08:435:08:47

train, by the time they get to their

destination, they are more than 15

5:08:475:08:51

or 30 minutes late, they can have

that compensation credited to their

5:08:515:08:55

bank account. In today's's day and

age, there is no need for passengers

5:08:555:08:59

to go through the timely and costly

and bureaucratic exercise of

5:08:595:09:03

claiming. That is why they do not

claim. There is a Bill, that I hope

5:09:035:09:08

will get its second reading at the

end of March in my name, that I

5:09:085:09:12

would like the Minister to get

behind comic as I believe the

5:09:125:09:14

technology does exist. That would

give more back to the passenger. The

5:09:145:09:20

other point I would just like to

make is that it is in all good

5:09:205:09:25

talking about public good, and I

recognise a lot of the good work at

5:09:255:09:28

Network Rail do, but they have also

been responsible for a large part of

5:09:285:09:32

the delays that the train operators

are taking the flak for. I think it

5:09:325:09:38

is time to put all of the track and

the responsibility of the train

5:09:385:09:42

operator and also question whether

some of the stations should now be

5:09:425:09:45

transferred out, as well.

I want to,

in the short time I have, start off

5:09:455:09:53

by paying tribute to all these staff

that work on our railways in this

5:09:535:09:57

country. I think they do an

excellent job of getting our

5:09:575:10:01

railways moving under very difficult

circumstances. I also want to pay

5:10:015:10:05

tribute to the Shadow Secretary of

State for the wiki has done in the

5:10:055:10:08

last few weeks in standing up to the

British public and making the case

5:10:085:10:11

to the public. They deserve better

service than they have been getting.

5:10:115:10:15

I want to agree one thing with what

the Secretary of State said. That is

5:10:155:10:20

to pay tribute to the minister who

has left the Department for south

5:10:205:10:25

Holland, because she was somebody

who understood the value of trade

5:10:255:10:28

unions. He was one of the few

Conservative ministers that would

5:10:285:10:33

meet with union 's regular, because

he understood that working together,

5:10:335:10:37

management and workforce provide a

better service. I want to make two

5:10:375:10:41

points. The first one, since the

botched privatisation, it was a

5:10:415:10:47

privatisation too far in the 1990s

of the row ways. We have lost the

5:10:475:10:52

important transport integration that

we once had in this country. I was

5:10:525:10:56

born and raised and still live in

the port railway town of Holyhead,

5:10:565:11:01

where we had ferries full of people

coming in and using it to go to

5:11:015:11:08

continental Europe and this country,

and they would get a train or a bus

5:11:085:11:13

or a means of transport. That has

been broken because of the franchise

5:11:135:11:18

agreement and that each mode of

transport is now operating in a

5:11:185:11:22

silo. We need to get that

integration. Now, I believe in the

5:11:225:11:29

private sector, public sector, and

indeed not-for-profit, having a

5:11:295:11:33

stake in British industry and

British transport system. Others

5:11:335:11:35

like to make the case to the

minister, who I welcome to this

5:11:355:11:39

place, for the not-for-profit

sector, because, in Wales, we have

5:11:395:11:43

our water run by the not so profit

sector. It meets the criteria of the

5:11:435:11:49

EU and provides an excellent

service. It paid profits back into

5:11:495:11:54

investing back in the company and

customers get a better service than

5:11:545:11:58

many of the private, ideological you

run once in England. There is a

5:11:585:12:03

model that works, and it is

not-for-profit. It values its

5:12:035:12:07

customers and values its workforce.

Makes money and it reinvests. Now,

5:12:075:12:12

during the Welsh Bill that was put

before Parliament in 2016, I and

5:12:125:12:18

members asked that the 1993 act be

changed so that Wales could have a

5:12:185:12:23

not-for-profit for its franchise.

That would have worked. This garment

5:12:235:12:26

resisted it. I say to the minister,

at this late hour, look again at the

5:12:265:12:33

1993 act. Allow Wales to run its

affairs anyway that is good for its

5:12:335:12:35

customers, that is good for the

communities and is good for growth

5:12:355:12:41

across the country. If this

Government is serious about

5:12:415:12:44

spreading wealth in needs to improve

its rail system and it needs to fix

5:12:445:12:48

this broken franchise system.

5:12:485:12:54

it is a pleasure to be called in

this debate. We have to do about

5:12:545:12:59

express trains and I will do an

express speech. It has been

5:12:595:13:02

interesting to listen the arguments

being made. I don't find the idea

5:13:025:13:07

that a clarion call to fix all

transport network is to bring back

5:13:075:13:11

British rail. It is easy to look at

it through rose tinted spectacles,

5:13:115:13:16

it is like those who still love the

idea of steam trains running off and

5:13:165:13:19

down the main lines. Yes, beautiful

to see, but as a practical mud on

5:13:195:13:24

transport system we have clearly

moved on. -- modern. One thing

5:13:245:13:30

missed about our railways, if public

was the instant solution is the fact

5:13:305:13:36

that Network Rail is in the public

sector, and having sat on the Public

5:13:365:13:39

Accounts Committee at the time when

we look to their handling of the

5:13:395:13:42

great Railway modernisation

programme, it was safe to say that

5:13:425:13:45

was anything but a success, in fact

it was a most a textbook example of

5:13:455:13:50

how not to manage a project. But for

me what people look for is what

5:13:505:13:56

services they get, and as an MP

myself, my priority is what do my

5:13:565:14:02

customers get, my residence, what

servants as a -- services are there?

5:14:025:14:06

Whether it is publicly or privately

run not necessarily force that there

5:14:065:14:13

is clearly a consultation going on

about whether the great Western

5:14:135:14:17

franchise should be split. Whether

our section should split away from

5:14:175:14:23

the section that serves south Wales.

Some exceptions on the edges. It

5:14:235:14:37

raises some questions about yes, it

is good to have smaller franchises,

5:14:375:14:41

but by the same token it has to be a

sustainable franchise to maintain

5:14:415:14:45

the services of a large railway and

the main rolling stock. There are

5:14:455:14:52

some key projects that I hope any

franchise would look at taking

5:14:525:14:55

forward. Those of you who know the

network will know that west of

5:14:555:15:04

Exeter and St Davids there is only

one railway line, which makes it

5:15:045:15:08

particularly vulnerable at all -ish,

where we need to look at a long-term

5:15:085:15:11

solution, and not just the major

schemes, also those to improve the

5:15:115:15:15

line. I also look at how the

cross-country, any franchise can

5:15:155:15:24

look to change, and being clear, it

must maintain some of those direct

5:15:245:15:28

routes from key areas for the day,

such as Manchester and the Southern

5:15:285:15:32

Midlands directly into Paignton and

Torquay. I was pleased some of the

5:15:325:15:35

changes were blocked by a previous

rail minister and I hope that will

5:15:355:15:39

continue to be the same. For make of

the debate has to be what is the

5:15:395:15:43

outcome for passengers, because it

is great to talk about whether it

5:15:435:15:46

should be public or private but the

ownership is not the key, it is what

5:15:465:15:49

it delivers, and that is what makes

the difference to people living in

5:15:495:15:53

our constituencies.

Thank you very

much. It is blindingly obvious to so

5:15:535:16:03

many of our constituents that this

current model of rail franchising

5:16:035:16:08

and profiteering from our railways

is broken, inefficient, fragmented

5:16:085:16:12

and unjustifiably expensive. Our

private railways are subsidised by

5:16:125:16:18

more than £5 billion of public money

every year and that is before we get

5:16:185:16:21

to the bailout of virgin, Stagecoach

East coast and the missing £2

5:16:215:16:27

billion. It is no wonder it has been

called the great train robbery.

5:16:275:16:34

British passengers paying the

highest fares in Europe to travel on

5:16:345:16:37

sometimes packed services while rail

companies are laughing all the way

5:16:375:16:42

to the bank. Since 2010, fares have

risen three times faster than wages,

5:16:425:16:47

and last week's 3.6% increase was

the steepest hike in five years.

5:16:475:16:53

Conservative ministers said higher

fares would fund improved services,

5:16:535:16:57

yet long promised investment,

including rail electrification, has

5:16:575:17:02

been scrapped. 207 cards are looking

to be scrapped. I won't repeat all

5:17:025:17:18

of those answers in the very short

time that I have but against the

5:17:185:17:22

backdrop of police cuts and rising

crime, the role of the guard in

5:17:225:17:26

Merseyside at is more important than

ever. The Merseyside travelling

5:17:265:17:32

public have supported the retention

of the guard throughout this dispute

5:17:325:17:35

amidst grave discovered -- grave

concerns about passenger safety. How

5:17:355:17:40

can be say -- how can be fair that

Merseyside passengers are paying

5:17:405:17:46

fares used for Dutch owners Abellio,

but they don't get to enjoy the same

5:17:465:17:51

safety standards themselves? In the

context of this debate, the

5:17:515:17:56

franchising system fails to allow

the good industrial relations. Train

5:17:565:18:01

operating companies have little

interest beyond the term of their

5:18:015:18:04

franchise agreements, effectively

buying a license to print money.

5:18:045:18:09

Changes to staffing and strategic

decisions that should be considered

5:18:095:18:12

many years in advance and with the

agreement of staff and their trade

5:18:125:18:15

unions, and yet this is never the

case. The antagonistic strategy this

5:18:155:18:19

government has taken has only had an

adverse effect on passengers. It is

5:18:195:18:25

high time we had a Labour government

willing to bring it back to public

5:18:255:18:35

ownership. The Merseyrail dispute

will not disappear. Reluctantly or

5:18:355:18:39

not, government and regional and

local politicians will have to

5:18:395:18:41

engage further, if we are to get our

railways moving again in 2018. I

5:18:415:18:47

just say the Merseyrail's odours,

Abellio and Sakho, don't do deals on

5:18:475:18:52

Merseyside that you think you can

hide away in your corporate offices

5:18:525:18:57

-- Serco.

Thank you, I only have

three minutes or I will go as

5:18:575:19:04

quickly as I possibly can. I am a

new member in this place, and my

5:19:045:19:10

regretting of this is that I come to

these kind of debates and I have the

5:19:105:19:14

same kind of stale and artificial

debates and arguments from the

5:19:145:19:17

members opposite, and we have done

so again today. We immediately get

5:19:175:19:20

into a position about how private is

bad and public is good. It is

5:19:205:19:25

totally stale and totally

artificial, as the member for

5:19:255:19:28

Liverpool Walton who has just done

in his remarks for the past three

5:19:285:19:30

minutes or so. The member for

Huddersfield who is no longer in his

5:19:305:19:34

place talked about how this

discussion had become in the highly

5:19:345:19:37

partisan very early on. I think the

partisanship of this discussion was

5:19:375:19:41

when the motion first went down,

which critiqued the idea of

5:19:415:19:46

franchising in concept, in totality,

and that is the ultimate problem,

5:19:465:19:50

because the Labour Party is seeking

to take some understandable

5:19:505:19:54

examples, which I acknowledge and

accept our not good, around the

5:19:545:19:58

country, and extrapolating them how

to say there is a systemic problem

5:19:585:20:01

forever with the rail systems which

means it needs to be changed. And

5:20:015:20:05

the evidence on this is that there

are more people travelling than ever

5:20:055:20:09

before, and we have 60 years of

history on the railway network since

5:20:095:20:14

post-war, and of those 60 years, 40

years were in public ownership and

5:20:145:20:18

20 years in private sector

ownership. Of that 40 years, much of

5:20:185:20:23

it was an economic, the railways

were losing incredible amounts of

5:20:235:20:26

money in the amount of passengers

travelled the gist by a third. I

5:20:265:20:29

will not give way. In the last 20

years, 13 years of which members

5:20:295:20:34

opposite stood up to defend under

the previous government, we have had

5:20:345:20:38

an increasing number of passengers

using, more trains than ever before,

5:20:385:20:42

and we have greater customer

satisfaction in many parts of the

5:20:425:20:44

line than before. So I want to make

two point while I can in the time I

5:20:445:20:49

have left. Given we are in

opposition day, I looked at an

5:20:495:20:53

alternative opposition day one from

19 Defour, which the previous

5:20:535:20:59

Secretary of State, the former

member for Holborn and St Pancras,

5:20:595:21:01

came to this place, and he talked

about how privatisation would not

5:21:015:21:04

get the investment that was

necessary, would not secure the

5:21:045:21:08

safety of the railway network and

would not have great lines. I think

5:21:085:21:11

it is demonstrable over the past 20

years that none of those three

5:21:115:21:15

things have actually come to pass.

And if you want an example of a

5:21:155:21:20

franchise, if you want an example of

a franchise, which is working well,

5:21:205:21:24

the franchise which serves my

constituency, which is not perfect

5:21:245:21:28

by any means whatsoever, East

Midlands Trains. East Midlands

5:21:285:21:32

Trains had over the past few years

worked well. Transport focus says it

5:21:325:21:37

is performing well, especially with

regards to punctuality and

5:21:375:21:40

reliability. It's satisfaction

surveys are near 90% in terms of

5:21:405:21:46

customer satisfaction, I am happy to

give way.

Would the honourable

5:21:465:21:51

member recognised that the very

highly subsidised European models

5:21:515:21:55

that actually get much lower levels

of satisfaction, all they do is

5:21:555:22:02

transfer the burden from the

travelling passenger on to the

5:22:025:22:06

entire taxpayer burden? And what we

have in the United Kingdom, it is

5:22:065:22:10

not perfect, no system is, but at

least we have people using the

5:22:105:22:12

service paying for the service.

My

honourable friend is absolute right

5:22:125:22:17

and time after time I sit in this

house and listen to members opposite

5:22:175:22:20

to really do not understand

economics. LAUGHTER

5:22:205:22:25

And do not get how we can pay for

these railways and all the demands

5:22:255:22:29

and sweeties and goodies, which you

are seeking, the members opposite,

5:22:295:22:33

my apologies, are seeking to give

out. If you look at the mainland

5:22:335:22:38

franchise from 1996, a couple of

years after franchising occurred,

5:22:385:22:41

there were 14 trains a day between

London and Sheffield, and of those

5:22:415:22:45

14 trains, the average time to get

between London and Sheffield was two

5:22:455:22:49

hours 26 minutes. With the fastest

being two hours ten minutes. We now

5:22:495:22:53

have more than double the number of

trains per day on the Midland Main

5:22:535:22:57

line between London and Sheffield,

and the average time is quicker than

5:22:575:23:01

the fastest time was 20 years ago.

Now I do not want to say that

5:23:015:23:06

everything is perfect. There are

many things which can be better

5:23:065:23:09

about the Midland mainline and East

Midlands reigns as a whole, but the

5:23:095:23:12

idea, and what I have had from the

benches opposite, is as the

5:23:125:23:16

Secretary of State said, complete

nonsense, and we should recognise

5:23:165:23:19

much progress has been made in the

last 20 years. There is much to do.

5:23:195:23:23

I will not stand here and listen to

the kind of nonsense that has

5:23:235:23:26

occurred previously.

Like my

honourable friend, the member for

5:23:265:23:31

Wigan, I wanted to concentrate my

remarks on expressing my

5:23:315:23:34

constituents's concerned about their

daily struggle to get to work, which

5:23:345:23:38

is so unlike the picture painted by

the Secretary of State earlier,

5:23:385:23:42

which was a very rosy picture. They

just want reliable services and

5:23:425:23:45

affordable fares. Which is just not

happening under this government's

5:23:455:23:50

failed transport policy. Many people

commute from or to Cardiff and

5:23:505:23:58

Bristol and beyond. We have seen

remarkable levels of passenger

5:23:585:24:01

growth at seven tunnel, where usage

has improved by

5:24:015:24:08

transport links to Bristol, one of

the fastest growing economies to

5:24:095:24:13

Bristol outside London, crucial to

implement, something the government

5:24:135:24:16

acknowledged in the industrial

strategy, which are talked about

5:24:165:24:19

better links between Wales and in

Lynn. But services have some years

5:24:195:24:23

now been plagued by reliability

problems and overcrowding on the

5:24:235:24:26

services to Bristol and beyond.

Computers are completely frustrated.

5:24:265:24:35

Severn tunnel action group show that

on half the commuting days in the

5:24:355:24:41

last year there was standing room

only at Severn Tunnel Junction.

5:24:415:24:53

Commuters whose fares have gone up

by 33% since 2010 feedback

5:24:535:25:00

overcrowding, people fainting on the

train, being asked to stand in the

5:25:005:25:04

toilet so more people can get on. At

the same time, the government

5:25:045:25:08

announced last year it would extend

the great Western franchise to March

5:25:085:25:12

2020 and maybe longer. Yes, we are

getting electricity and, but what

5:25:125:25:19

was in this announcement that gave

anyone any faith that things would

5:25:195:25:21

get better now for commuters? As my

honourable friend from Bridgend said

5:25:215:25:24

earlier on, great Western have got

the extension without any conditions

5:25:245:25:27

at all. They are rewarding this

company without any idea that things

5:25:275:25:31

will get better from my

constituents. Where the government

5:25:315:25:34

has an opportunity to help come it

hasn't. There is currently a process

5:25:345:25:38

for the Wales and Borders franchise

which is dissolved, but the

5:25:385:25:41

government said to the Welsh

government, for the purposes of this

5:25:415:25:46

franchise, competition, now

cross-border services to Bristol may

5:25:465:25:51

be proposed. This is a missed

opportunity, but not washed

5:25:515:25:55

government is planning bold

infrastructure projects like the

5:25:555:25:59

South Wales metro, which will

improve connectivity, the UK

5:25:595:26:02

Government's approach could not be

in stark contrast to the Welsh

5:26:025:26:05

Labour government. A constituent who

complained about the services to

5:26:055:26:08

Vista was told recently by great

Western, that is just how it is

5:26:085:26:12

nowadays. It shouldn't be. The

privatised rail system is not

5:26:125:26:16

delivering, services are getting

worse, fares going up, we need the

5:26:165:26:19

government and rail companies to

address these problems and take rail

5:26:195:26:22

back into public ownership when the

rail franchise has expired.

5:26:225:26:29

Bearing in mind the restrictions of

the honourable member for East

5:26:295:26:34

Derbyshire, I'll try not to be

Teesdale in my input, -- I'll try

5:26:345:26:42

not to be too stale, but we have

heard a lot about the £2 billion

5:26:425:26:52

last with the East Coast franchise,

but we haven't yet heard about the

5:26:525:26:56

promises made for the later years of

those franchises. We we still see

5:26:565:27:01

from Bradford, from Lincoln, the two

hourly trains that were promised

5:27:015:27:05

under those franchises. Are we still

going to see the direct train from

5:27:055:27:10

Sunderland? Will we still see the

continuing increase in number of

5:27:105:27:13

trains from London King's Cross?

There is confusion now not only over

5:27:135:27:17

this franchise but also the

trans-Pennine and chives. There's

5:27:175:27:21

lots of speculation they will try to

renegotiate because they promised

5:27:215:27:25

£300 million to the Government for a

previously subsidised service, will

5:27:255:27:30

they continue to do that? Following

on from the remarks on the

5:27:305:27:34

honourable member for Garside, I do

think the idea of a public sector

5:27:345:27:37

can Paratore is public lands, Madam

Deputy Speaker. Why can they not be

5:27:375:27:42

a public sector come Paratore? I

think there was a golden age, under

5:27:425:27:49

a Conservative Government, mostly,

on the East Coast when the dominant

5:27:495:27:56

provider was a public service

provider until 2015. I do believe in

5:27:565:28:03

open access at the margin. Open

access only provides about 1% of

5:28:035:28:07

services and I don't see why that

didn't continue under a system where

5:28:075:28:12

the major franchises were in the

public sector. No dominant provider,

5:28:125:28:16

whether it's in the public or

private sector, is likely to look at

5:28:165:28:20

the needs of small towns like Selby,

served by Hull trains, like

5:28:205:28:25

Eaglescliffe, like Hartlepool, soon

to be served by an open access

5:28:255:28:35

operator. I hope we don't neglect

that under eight Labour Government.

5:28:355:28:41

I would call upon the Government to

start talks, we can get a solution

5:28:415:28:47

to the strikes that are affecting my

constituents for three days this

5:28:475:28:51

week. In Scotland, a simple

solution, the driver opens the door,

5:28:515:28:55

the guard closes the door and

maintained safety. It can be

5:28:555:29:00

reached. The Government has a

responsibility to reach that. My

5:29:005:29:07

final point, we are still reasonably

close to the Christmas season. I

5:29:075:29:12

would ask ministers to fulfil their

promises on Boxing Day trains. In

5:29:125:29:18

opposition, they promised they would

do something. 58 hours is too long

5:29:185:29:21

to close it all down. They claimed

they would run trains to Manchester

5:29:215:29:30

Airport on Boxing Day 2018.

They

need to act. I would like to engage

5:29:305:29:36

on the issue of franchising work.

Next week, radio Cambridgeshire will

5:29:365:29:39

be celebrating 25 years since we

started on this journey from British

5:29:395:29:45

rail to anything but British rail

and I remember it rather well

5:29:455:29:48

because I remember going to a rail

track meeting at the time what I

5:29:485:29:52

thought was a naive question, who

will sort out the problems of who's

5:29:525:29:55

responsible when things go wrong?

You might have thought that would've

5:29:555:29:58

been thought about them but 25 years

on, that is still being argued over.

5:29:585:30:02

When I speak to people in the

industry, they tell me about the

5:30:025:30:06

small army of people spend their

time not helping passengers, not

5:30:065:30:12

improving the industry, but argue

over who is responsible for paying

5:30:125:30:14

when things go wrong. Within that

system, so many opportunities to

5:30:145:30:19

game the system, so many

opportunities to make sure your

5:30:195:30:22

train is just not quite late enough

to incur penalties. I recently made

5:30:225:30:27

a social gaffe at dinner, sitting

next to some body from the train

5:30:275:30:31

operating company, asking, what is

the point in train operating

5:30:315:30:35

companies? I was thinking, you don't

own any trains, you don't own any

5:30:355:30:39

tracks, what do you do? I was told,

you sell tickets and we innovate.

5:30:395:30:45

Kind of like ticket touts then? I

suspect I won't be invited back.

5:30:455:30:49

That is the problem with many of

these people, A, located system.

5:30:495:30:54

Honourable friend have already

raised questions around two of the

5:30:545:30:58

routes which serve my city and I'm

grateful to the peace in The Sunday

5:30:585:31:02

Times where we learnt a little more

about the East Anglia franchise.

5:31:025:31:08

£3.7 billion price tag, managing

director was right to describe it as

5:31:085:31:12

scary, but of course that was

negotiated in and around the time of

5:31:125:31:15

the referendum in 2016 and,

amazingly, renegotiated very

5:31:155:31:20

hurriedly in the days afterwards,

completely out of public sight, as

5:31:205:31:25

usual, and then within six months,

that company sold a 60% stake of

5:31:255:31:32

itself to a Japanese company. Does

that matter? I think it does. These

5:31:325:31:37

are our public companies which are

being speculated upon when what we

5:31:375:31:41

actually need is an environmentally

sensible, cost-effective, reliable

5:31:415:31:45

transport system that people in my

constituency can afford. On the

5:31:455:31:49

other route, we have, I am afraid,

in the last few days seen a National

5:31:495:31:54

Audit Office report which has

eloquently explained, by some of my

5:31:545:32:00

honourable displayed the appalling

levels of service constituent of

5:32:005:32:05

mine are suffering from. Many of

them are paying almost £5,000 per

5:32:055:32:08

year for a season ticket, which is a

huge amount for the many young

5:32:085:32:12

people in my constituency. In

conclusion, I would say to train

5:32:125:32:17

operating companies, look at the

station clock. Tick tock, your time

5:32:175:32:21

is up, just like mine.

This subject

to the opposition debate clearly

5:32:215:32:29

operates how the Government is not

operating the vital transport

5:32:295:32:34

infrastructure in the interest of

the many. The taxpayer bailout of

5:32:345:32:40

the franchise by the Government is

yet more evidence that our railways

5:32:405:32:45

would be better under public

ownership. Let us not forget that

5:32:455:32:49

these Coast mainline returned over

£1 billion to the Treasury and was

5:32:495:32:53

the best performing network when it

was in public hands. It seems that

5:32:535:32:58

this Government is happy to reward

failing companies for mismanaging

5:32:585:33:02

our railways. This is not the only

way they are failing to deliver on

5:33:025:33:06

transport policy, as the North of

England have had a raw deal from

5:33:065:33:10

central Government when it comes to

transport spending, with £726 and

5:33:105:33:16

£1083 respectively planned central

Government spending in Yorkshire and

5:33:165:33:27

the Humber versus London and the

southern England in the next four

5:33:275:33:30

years per person. This money is

frittered away on filling the

5:33:305:33:33

pockets of Private companies. Money

would be better spent modernising

5:33:335:33:37

ageing infrastructure in places --

holding places like my home city of

5:33:375:33:44

Bradford back. They also have to

bear the pain of average fares

5:33:445:33:49

raising more than three times faster

than wages. A slap in the face and

5:33:495:33:53

in the pocket on top of years of

insult from unfair underinvestment.

5:33:535:33:57

These figures are not acceptable and

have far reaching consequences for

5:33:575:34:01

the economy in the North of England

and for the prosperity of my

5:34:015:34:05

constituents. It is Whitehall's

failure to recognise this last point

5:34:055:34:09

that so enrages me. The North gets

trees planted along the 62, London

5:34:095:34:16

gets Crossrail, hardly fair. An

independent study of the North's

5:34:165:34:21

untapped potential set out how new

investment including HS the Ricoh --

5:34:215:34:27

could unlock up to... Bringing a

beast of £53 million to the local

5:34:275:34:40

economy and £1.3 billion to the

region as a whole. We are still

5:34:405:34:51

waiting for an electrification of

the trans-Pennine Railway. We need

5:34:515:34:57

to bring out railways back into

public ownership and to invest

5:34:575:35:02

properly into railways in the north

of England. We in Bradford will not

5:35:025:35:05

be full, satisfied or fobbed off

with crumbs from the table. Thank

5:35:055:35:08

you.

The Secretary of State in his

opening remarks said, and I quote,

5:35:085:35:16

let's focus on the things that make

a difference to passengers. Well,

5:35:165:35:20

the National audit of its report

that was published today amongst the

5:35:205:35:23

many damning things it says, fares,

it is not clear whether the

5:35:235:35:28

department considers its approach on

passenger services. Warm words but

5:35:285:35:34

no action. Today's and AO report is

damaging, revealing that the Thames

5:35:345:35:39

Link, Southern and Northern

franchise has failed to deliver.

5:35:395:35:45

Croydon commuters have suffered

under the worst performance, with

5:35:455:35:50

more than double the delays and

cancellations of the national

5:35:505:35:57

average and the lowest satisfaction

rates, yet the Bears have risen

5:35:575:36:02

twice as fast -- the rail fares have

risen twice as fast as wages. The

5:36:025:36:11

first scandal in our area is the

design of the franchise and the

5:36:115:36:16

decline in performance which it

threatens. Though the Thames Link's

5:36:165:36:20

management contract has a guaranteed

£1 billion to the operator, while

5:36:205:36:25

the taxpayer shoulders the risk of

tickets our revenues. We were

5:36:255:36:30

promised £3.5 billion profit from

this franchise, but instead the loss

5:36:305:36:35

to the public purse last year was

over £90 million. Madam Deputy

5:36:355:36:40

Speaker, the Member for North East

Derbyshire who insulted us all and

5:36:405:36:44

then left claimed that we do not

understand economics. There is no

5:36:445:36:47

economic sense in that medal --

model. The abysmal performance

5:36:475:36:51

suffered by commuters in Croydon and

inflation beating ticket prices mean

5:36:515:37:02

that its use fell for the first time

last year. If commuters continue to

5:37:025:37:06

fall away from these shoddy,

overpriced services, less money will

5:37:065:37:10

be available to invest. Network Rail

needs £1 billion to make go via

5:37:105:37:18

Thames Link's network fit for

purpose. We must alter the track and

5:37:185:37:23

sort out the Windmill bridging

Croydon to stop the service from

5:37:235:37:26

collapsing in the future. The

Government pointed to the 300

5:37:265:37:31

million that was put in place last

year that apparently go towards

5:37:315:37:36

improving the network. Can the

Minister confirm how much of the

5:37:365:37:40

taxpayers money will go back to the

coppers of go via Thames Link in the

5:37:405:37:45

form of fines for infrastructure

failure? My second point is that the

5:37:455:37:51

Government has been shown what fails

and has refused to act. The

5:37:515:38:00

Independent given report recommended

Southern services, including some

5:38:005:38:05

from Croydon, the transport to DFL

as soon as possible because they

5:38:055:38:11

have shown such improvement.

Travelling by rail has always been

5:38:115:38:17

something I enjoy, my dad was a

railwaymen and when I was nine, my

5:38:175:38:23

family travelled to Italy on holiday

by train, exotic in the 1960s. I

5:38:235:38:28

have to use trains twice weekly and

it's not often a nice experience. I

5:38:285:38:33

sometimes have to walk all the way

across Newark to change trains which

5:38:335:38:37

can take up to half an hour. Our

rail network is currently

5:38:375:38:43

unreliable, old, dirty and relies on

staff. Often a single coach from

5:38:435:38:48

Newark to Lincoln with no space hope

pushchairs, wheelchairs or bikes and

5:38:485:38:58

it does make a sustainable and

environmental policy possible. After

5:38:585:39:07

the failure of the UK's mainline,

all the local MPs worry that the six

5:39:075:39:13

direct services we have been

promised by Virgin Trains in 2019

5:39:135:39:17

might not happen. Lincoln needs the

services. Constituents need

5:39:175:39:21

reliable, affordable trains,

businesses need to attract customers

5:39:215:39:26

and our tourism needs to attract

visitors. Lincoln has just got a

5:39:265:39:30

brand-new transport hub of which we

are very proud. It is my hope that

5:39:305:39:33

Lincoln and the rest of this country

very soon will get a Labour

5:39:335:39:37

Government which will bring our

railways back into public ownership

5:39:375:39:40

so that we get the rail system we

need and the kind of Government this

5:39:405:39:43

country deserves.

In the time

available to me want to confine my

5:39:435:39:51

remarks to two key parts. The first

is asking the Minister not to split

5:39:515:39:54

the great Western franchise and

instead to focus his time and energy

5:39:545:39:57

on investing in our timeline. George

Osborne suggested a Devon and

5:39:575:40:02

Cornwall franchise. It might have

won the headlines but it won few

5:40:025:40:06

supporters in the south-west, as

splitting Devon and Cornwall would

5:40:065:40:12

confine rail users in the south-west

to a second-class service. Labour

5:40:125:40:17

and Conservative MPs oppose this

idea but it seems no less and have

5:40:175:40:21

been learned. Instead of focusing on

speed, resilience and affordability

5:40:215:40:24

for the far south-west, we are now

having to defend another attempt to

5:40:245:40:30

split our franchise. Splitting the

West Country services from those

5:40:305:40:32

that go to Wales, it would reduce

income, risk investment and fragment

5:40:325:40:39

railways even further. I say to the

Minister, please do not do this when

5:40:395:40:43

considering responses to the

consultation that you will shortly

5:40:435:40:45

receive. I would like to welcome the

Minister to his place there because

5:40:455:40:49

I know he and I will be speaking an

awful lot about trains in the coming

5:40:495:40:53

months, especially those around

Dawlish. Can I say the priority for

5:40:535:40:56

the great Western franchise is

investment, not fragmentation? If

5:40:565:41:03

the Minister has not read the

report, encourage him to take bed to

5:41:035:41:06

read it. It recommends improvements

in track, signalling all the way

5:41:065:41:14

from Paddington to Plymouth. My

friend the Shadow Secretary of State

5:41:145:41:20

has committed £2.5 billion to

upgrade our track, but as yet

5:41:205:41:25

ministers have not yet made any such

investment or match double-edged. It

5:41:255:41:30

seems that it is only Labour that

will invest in a long-term strategy

5:41:305:41:34

for our railways. The speed to the

West report which also follows the

5:41:345:41:38

peninsula rail task force report is

also something I would recommend the

5:41:385:41:42

Minister now breeds. That recommends

cutting the journey times between

5:41:425:41:46

the far south-west and London from

three hours 30 minutes from Plymouth

5:41:465:41:49

to London at the moment to two hours

15 minutes. The best intervention on

5:41:495:41:53

that, which would cost £600,000, was

mentioned by my honourable friend 40

5:41:535:42:01

by -- for Torbay, was not funded

before the deadline ran out at

5:42:015:42:03

Christmas. There is one last chance

for the Minister to say we will find

5:42:035:42:10

that £600,000. When London receives

billions of pounds for upgrades, the

5:42:105:42:16

far south-west once only £600,000

and we were ignored. I would like to

5:42:165:42:20

ask the Minister to look again at

that and its terms. There is

5:42:205:42:24

cross-party support for rail

investment in the far south-west but

5:42:245:42:26

there is a sense in the West Country

that we are ignored by ministers and

5:42:265:42:30

ignored by this Government. The new

trains will come online this year

5:42:305:42:34

and a welcome mat investment but I

would welcome news from the Minister

5:42:345:42:40

that we will get the funding we

need.

5:42:405:42:46

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. In

my constituency, as elsewhere in the

5:42:465:42:52

north-east, the future of our

railways is of great interest. We

5:42:525:42:56

have our own experience in our

region, the example of a directly

5:42:565:43:02

operated railway, in the East Coast

Mainline, a service taken into

5:43:025:43:05

public control following the failure

of two contracts in 2009. My

5:43:055:43:11

constituents and others, including

honourable and is in this chamber,

5:43:115:43:15

or out campaigning to retain the

East Coast Mainline in public

5:43:155:43:18

ownership. Not only have the trains

provided a good service, but the

5:43:185:43:22

company had returned £1 billion of

premiums to the public purse. That

5:43:225:43:27

is why it was and still is goading

to many people in the north-east to

5:43:275:43:34

see the franchise re-franchise, in

the fact that the franchise

5:43:345:43:38

represented the best value. No

wonder that so many of my

5:43:385:43:45

constituents here were in disbelief

when the Secretary of State is now

5:43:455:43:48

looking to turn up the current

contract now that the current

5:43:485:43:56

franchises Stagecoach and Virgin,

already looking to make their

5:43:565:44:01

anticipated profit, will be walking

away with £2 billion under the

5:44:015:44:07

current contract. Hardly surprising

then that folk in the north-east are

5:44:075:44:11

in the gastric about Labour's

commitment to take back rail

5:44:115:44:16

franchises as they expire. Rail

franchising has proved to be

5:44:165:44:21

ineffective and costly, encouraging

bidders to submit over optimistic

5:44:215:44:25

and unrealistic bids. It is about

time we looked at bringing back rail

5:44:255:44:29

into public ownership, so we get the

best possible value and the best

5:44:295:44:34

possible service to passengers from

their rail services. And finally, I

5:44:345:44:37

want to referred to the NAA report

this morning and the Secretary of

5:44:375:44:43

State's response on that blaming the

trade union. It is the Government

5:44:435:44:48

which sets the contract terms and

specification for franchising. It is

5:44:485:44:52

the Government which says you don't

need a second guard on trains, and

5:44:525:44:56

it is the Government which bears the

responsibility for problems in the

5:44:565:45:01

rail industry and the industrial

disputes that we face.

5:45:015:45:03

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Deputy

Speaker. In my region, about Leo is

5:45:035:45:12

running some trends with guards and

some without -- Abellio. They plan

5:45:125:45:17

to introduce new trends in East

Anglia and are threatening to remove

5:45:175:45:21

the ability of the guards to

supervise the closing of the doors.

5:45:215:45:26

I have a great fear that my

constituents' travel needs will be

5:45:265:45:30

sacrificed on the altar of the rail

operators intransigence. And yet

5:45:305:45:39

Abellio is capable of running trains

including closing doors. They can do

5:45:395:45:48

it in Scotland and the Netherlands.

The Conservatives say our train

5:45:485:45:51

operators are better than they would

be if they are state owned, but many

5:45:515:45:56

of our operators are state owned.

They are just not owned by this

5:45:565:46:01

state. Dutch democratic decision

takers believe that the passengers

5:46:015:46:04

in their country deserve rail

services that involve guards

5:46:045:46:09

ensuring the safe closure of doors.

Here in England, Abellio are awarded

5:46:095:46:15

a franchise that is based on the

removal of that safety measure, and

5:46:155:46:19

once the franchise is awarded, the

Government claims that any

5:46:195:46:23

disruption caused by industrial

action is nothing to do with them.

5:46:235:46:27

The franchising system reduces every

decision to what the train operator

5:46:275:46:31

can afford to do within the

franchise they have agreed. I want a

5:46:315:46:35

railway based on the best interests

of the passengers and of our

5:46:355:46:38

country.

Thank you. I have had to take the

5:46:385:46:45

beach in's axe to my speech but I

will make a couple of points in a

5:46:455:46:51

few moments that I have --

Beechings. I want to take up a

5:46:515:46:58

couple of points which I completely

want to disagree with and I think

5:46:585:47:03

fake news. If we look at the

evidence and the relative cost of

5:47:035:47:07

train fares in the UK compared with

European countries, many of which

5:47:075:47:14

their state operators actually own

the franchises, the difference is

5:47:145:47:18

stark, and I don't accept it is

about particular fares in peak

5:47:185:47:23

periods. I don't think that is true.

It is worth looking at the German

5:47:235:47:27

owned operators. They own Northern

Rail, the principal operator in our

5:47:275:47:39

region. 42% of the revenue is made

outside of Germany. 93% of the

5:47:395:47:47

investment is in the German railway.

So what they are actually doing it,

5:47:475:47:51

they are creating profits here to

improve services back in Germany.

5:47:515:47:57

And what is absolutely clear to is

since 2010, regulated rail fares

5:47:575:48:03

have risen by 32% on average, and

that is three times the average

5:48:035:48:09

median wage growth. We have to take

into account average wages and

5:48:095:48:21

factor that into it. The policy of

raising regulated fares by the

5:48:215:48:31

retail price index insures above

inflation fare rises every year. And

5:48:315:48:38

if we contrast that to the motion I

support, we would peg fare rises at

5:48:385:48:46

the consumer prices index and that

would save the average season-ticket

5:48:465:48:50

holder £500 over the course of the

year. That is not only affecting

5:48:505:48:56

constituents in my region. In the

Prime Minister's constituency, the

5:48:565:49:00

average cost of a season ticket from

Maidenhead to Paddington has risen

5:49:005:49:07

by £732 since 2010. Madam Deputy

Speaker, I think our railways come

5:49:075:49:12

on our railways we pay some of the

highest fares in Europe for

5:49:125:49:17

increasingly unreliable and crowded

services. That is my experience.

5:49:175:49:23

Passengers, our economy, our

environment, need affordable fares

5:49:235:49:26

and reliable services, which I don't

think the Tory policy is capable of

5:49:265:49:31

delivering. Labour would take back

our railway into public ownership

5:49:315:49:37

and would upgrade and expand the

rail network. I would like to

5:49:375:49:40

support the motion.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The

5:49:405:49:48

debate so far demonstrates that

privatisation has led to a

5:49:485:49:51

disastrous combination of service

failure, and profiteering from

5:49:515:49:55

public subsidy. A focus of the act

was to ban her private ownership but

5:49:555:50:10

overseas firms have profited. The

Dutch stepped railway runs the

5:50:105:50:15

Greater Anglia and ScotRail

franchises. This came about after

5:50:155:50:22

rail franchising powers were

devolved Scottish Parliament in

5:50:225:50:24

2005. Labour, the TSSA and RMT union

appealed to the Scottish Government

5:50:245:50:31

to delay the ScotRail franchise

until a public sector bid came in to

5:50:315:50:42

act. This practical measure to

accelerate a publicly owned and

5:50:425:50:47

operated railway in Scotland was

disregarded by the SNP and as a

5:50:475:50:51

result, we are owned by -- stuck

with a railway owned by the Dutch

5:50:515:50:55

state for another decade. In the

years that Abellio have been awarded

5:50:555:51:01

the franchise, fares have risen by

12% while wages have risen by 2%.

5:51:015:51:07

Customer satisfaction has not

improved. All the while, Abellio

5:51:075:51:11

sends its profits back to being

vested in the Dutch network. My

5:51:115:51:17

constituent was once the heart of

the rail manufacturing network. Now

5:51:175:51:26

much of the UK's rolling stock is

imported from Europe and Japan. A

5:51:265:51:36

restoration of public ownership of

rail franchises would be an

5:51:365:51:41

excellent first step towards a wider

Renaissance to the industry in a

5:51:415:51:45

nation which gave railways to the

world.

5:51:455:51:48

Just before the summer recess, the

Government announced they were

5:51:485:51:55

having plans for electrification of

the Midlands midline. My

5:51:555:52:06

constituents were fading into the

consultation process in good faith.

5:52:065:52:12

But much bigger plans were being put

together behind-the-scenes without

5:52:125:52:17

consultation or even a whisper in

Whitehall that rail users would lose

5:52:175:52:23

the peak-time Midlands rail service

in May. The announcement has hit my

5:52:235:52:29

constituents hard. Many fear they

will lose their jobs or have to give

5:52:295:52:33

up work because the changes to the

timetable mean they cannot balance

5:52:335:52:37

their lives around family

commitments. Rail users nationwide

5:52:375:52:42

have been betrayed by this

government but Bedford commuters are

5:52:425:52:46

taking a bigger hit, the most.

Passengers from Bedford are being

5:52:465:52:51

forced onto trains which are run by

Govia Thameslink who we learned

5:52:515:52:56

today are the worst train operating

company in the country. It is clear

5:52:565:53:05

by the NAO's report, that this

franchise was awarded to go via by

5:53:055:53:08

the Government, with full knowledge

that destruction is very likely and

5:53:085:53:15

Bedford passengers have felt that.

There is something fundamentally

5:53:155:53:20

wrong with the franchising process.

I expect the Transport Secretary to

5:53:205:53:28

commend to East Midlands rail and

Thameslink but Bedford rail users

5:53:285:53:34

are entitled to a reduced fare for

the services. Bedford is a growing

5:53:345:53:39

commuter town and the use of

services is increasing year-on-year.

5:53:395:53:44

It is marketed as an affordable

place to live with a 36 minute

5:53:445:53:51

commute to the capital. In the last

five years the fares have gone up by

5:53:515:53:54

25%. I kept the Transport Secretary

will now ensure that the new

5:53:545:54:01

franchise includes a new solution

for peak-time.

5:54:015:54:12

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. In

a country like the UK where we pay

5:54:125:54:17

rail fares five times in proportion

of the wages of people in Europe, it

5:54:175:54:22

is no wonder that UK commuters are

fed up with rising prices, worse

5:54:225:54:26

services. 76% of people support

renationalisation of the railways.

5:54:265:54:36

The Government are in a minority

position running a railway for the

5:54:365:54:40

few by the few. In my constituency

in High Peak, we have seen since

5:54:405:54:45

Northern Rail took over the

franchise just 18 months ago, prices

5:54:455:54:52

for off-peak fares have risen by

43%, hitting commuters, hitting

5:54:525:54:57

students, hitting people who simply

need to get to work. When I asked

5:54:575:55:01

Northern Rail why they had seen the

need to raise prices so much, they

5:55:015:55:05

simply said because we can. This

franchising is a licence to print

5:55:055:55:13

money. It's a licence to rip off

commuters. The services that they

5:55:135:55:16

are saying, my constituents tell me,

they don't even want a seat on a

5:55:165:55:20

train. Or they want is to be able to

stand up and not get pressure

5:55:205:55:25

bruises or have their feet stood on

or stand for people crammed in a

5:55:255:55:31

stinking toilets base. Those are the

sort of journeys that constituents

5:55:315:55:34

are having to suffer for an hour or

more to get to work. The longest

5:55:345:55:40

journey times in Europe. The

minister might think it is funny. Is

5:55:405:55:43

he going to ride on one of the

commuter trains to my constituency,

5:55:435:55:49

to experience the kind of service my

constituents face? Can I ask him to

5:55:495:55:55

address that? The Government don't

seem to understand the needs of

5:55:555:55:59

commuters of ordinary working people

who need a decent train service, at

5:55:595:56:03

a time when our roads and congestion

are overcrowded. There is no

5:56:035:56:08

investment going in where it is

needed. On the line from Manchester

5:56:085:56:14

to Sheffield, the most crowded and

needed services, we are getting no

5:56:145:56:18

answer from the Department for

Transport where a small increased

5:56:185:56:22

capacity scheme has been sacked for

18 months. That is the record of

5:56:225:56:27

this government, failing commuters,

failing the British people.

5:56:275:56:36

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Fares, franchises and a failure, all

5:56:365:56:42

entwined, this is how my honourable

friend 's have summarised their

5:56:425:56:46

experience of the railways today.

The member for Lincoln, the Member

5:56:465:56:52

for Wigan, the honourable member for

Newport East, for High Peak and

5:56:525:56:58

Bedford really brought forth the

impact this is having. A rail

5:56:585:57:02

sector, I might add, which is full

of fantastic people within it, but

5:57:025:57:06

one which is distracted from its

core function of providing

5:57:065:57:10

passengers with affordable access to

a fully integrated system, train and

5:57:105:57:15

track, wheel and steel, as well as

one that works across the entire

5:57:155:57:18

network and enables full accessible

travel. And while the Secretary of

5:57:185:57:26

State defends the broken system, a

system that he has made far more

5:57:265:57:30

centralist in its control than even

Labour's National rail service will

5:57:305:57:35

be, it is the passengers that have

doomed double the gaps, three

5:57:355:57:39

continually having to pay and pay

and pay again for the basic purpose

5:57:395:57:43

of voter work or have a day out with

the family. And also as we have

5:57:435:57:50

heard pay for the poor performance,

as the Member for Croydon Central

5:57:505:57:54

set out for us today. It's not just

eased magister highlighting the

5:57:545:58:01

failure for Government, the Member

for Cleethorpes also highlighted the

5:58:015:58:05

problems with franchising. To put

passengers at the centre should be

5:58:055:58:09

their mantra but sadly it isn't. In

a survey, it has been highlighted

5:58:095:58:19

how failure on ticketing is the

number one issue for passengers and

5:58:195:58:23

not only the 32% rise in fares since

2010, three times that of wages as

5:58:235:58:29

my right honourable friend the

Member for Easington said, the 4.3%

5:58:295:58:37

increase on tickets last year, or

3.6% if you are a season ticket

5:58:375:58:42

holder, everyone believes they are

being diddled out of a fair price

5:58:425:58:45

and they are right. Depending on

which operator runs your service,

5:58:455:58:49

what time you log on to buy your

ticket, what your journey is and on

5:58:495:58:54

what date changes the pricing. When

this is coupled with extortionate

5:58:545:59:00

price increases, passengers do ask

where their hard earned cash is

5:59:005:59:03

going and it's a good question, so

let me tell them. £725 million went

5:59:035:59:08

straight into the pockets of

shareholders. Well, Thomas might be

5:59:085:59:13

under the control of the fat

controller, today's passengers are

5:59:135:59:21

under control of the fat cats. There

the financial haemorrhage to all the

5:59:215:59:30

companies taking their cut, the

franchising of trains which take

5:59:305:59:37

money, but this candle pales into

insignificance when passengers

5:59:375:59:40

consider that when Richard Branson's

virgin gets into a bit of a pickle,

5:59:405:59:46

it goes cap in hand and makes

demands on the Secretary of State,

5:59:465:59:51

look how quickly the Secretary of

State buckled on this, a point made

5:59:515:59:57

so eloquently by a number of my

colleagues. The Department for

5:59:576:00:07

Transport under the Secretary of

State's borders set up a franchise

6:00:076:00:11

on the east coast that would involve

Network Rail to deliver

6:00:116:00:14

infrastructure upgrades but due to

the Government's failed CP five

6:00:146:00:20

process and the scaling down of

infrastructure upgrades, Network

6:00:206:00:24

Rail were unable to deliver. The

Government didn't even speak to

6:00:246:00:28

Network Rail about this when touting

for some operator to rip the service

6:00:286:00:35

out of public hands, which added

industry that -- which, out of

6:00:356:00:40

interest, but £1 billion in to the

Treasury. Now, it is a service which

6:00:406:00:46

is blindly undeliverable and the

Government need to understand it is

6:00:466:00:48

their responsibility. They led the

franchise. So, they went to the

6:00:486:00:59

Government to put the pressure on

hand have now been let off £2

6:00:596:01:04

billion at the Secretary of State

won't come to the dispatch box to

6:01:046:01:07

deny this fact. It's a complete and

utter shambles, as are so many other

6:01:076:01:12

services, as we heard from the

honourable member for Cambridge,

6:01:126:01:18

Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport

today, about the impact services are

6:01:186:01:21

having their communities. Not only

are the passengers paying for this,

6:01:216:01:26

they are also having to prop up

dodgy deals and they are dodgy

6:01:266:01:30

deals. Look at the way these train

operators are working their way

6:01:306:01:34

through the system to get as much

money as they possibly can, not just

6:01:346:01:40

out of the ticketing, but also by

putting down threats in Government

6:01:406:01:46

and compensation payments. It is a

complete scandal. The problems are

6:01:466:01:50

clear for us all to see. They

failed, fragmented franchise system,

6:01:506:01:55

Private profits over passenger

interests with the resultant decline

6:01:556:01:59

in patronage as we are now seeing

and a Secretary of State who refuses

6:01:596:02:04

to put the passengers interests at

the heart of the railway. That is

6:02:046:02:07

why Labour will introduce a new

public railway, owned by the public,

6:02:076:02:11

working for the public. This is not

about going back, as we will not

6:02:116:02:16

revisit the models of railways past,

but take us forward. Not just our

6:02:166:02:26

rail service forward, but our

economy forward as well, Doreen and

6:02:266:02:28

global best practice. Labour's rail

system will be for the many and not

6:02:286:02:31

the view. New lines, more capacity,

more seats, more trains, embracing

6:02:316:02:37

digital rail, more space for freight

and smart logistics, clean and green

6:02:376:02:44

electrification not a return to

dirty diesel planning for the

6:02:446:02:48

long-term and no more start stop

funding. The whole railway system

6:02:486:02:54

working as one. Passengers and

businesses knowing the deal and

6:02:546:02:56

being at the heart of the deal. As

the Member for in this month has

6:02:566:03:01

called for for Wales, but the Member

for Glasgow North East has said he

6:03:016:03:05

does not went to see the

fragmentation now reintroduced by

6:03:056:03:10

the Scottish Government into the

future. Now, as we have heard from

6:03:106:03:17

the Member for Liverpool Walton and

Ipswich, it is so important that we

6:03:176:03:23

make our railways safe and we will

make it safe and accessible by

6:03:236:03:26

ending the scrapping of the guards

and resolve the trade unions are

6:03:266:03:35

calling for today so disabled people

can have their dignity restored in

6:03:356:03:40

rail and so women can also feel safe

on the trains, both through the day

6:03:406:03:45

and the night. This is the rail

service the British people are

6:03:456:03:49

demanding and it will be a Labour

Government that deliver it. Now,

6:03:496:03:54

before I sit down, Maher welcomed

the new transport minister to his

6:03:546:03:58

place -- may I welcome the transport

minister to his place and I hope he

6:03:586:04:04

doesn't try to defend the

indefensible in his new role as he

6:04:046:04:07

did earlier this week in his last.

We have a transport crisis and we

6:04:076:04:11

need this Government to do something

about it or better still, make way

6:04:116:04:16

for a Government who will. Thank

you.

Minister Joe Johnson.

Thank

6:04:166:04:24

you, Madam Deputy Speaker. We have

had a full and excellent debate this

6:04:246:04:28

afternoon on the important subject

of rail franchising and I would like

6:04:286:04:31

to thank the honourable member 's

who have welcomed me to this new

6:04:316:04:36

position and I would like to start

by paying tribute to my predecessor,

6:04:366:04:39

the right honourable member for

Holland and the deep links to

6:04:396:04:43

acquitted himself exceptionally well

in this role over a considerable

6:04:436:04:48

period of time. A lot has been said

in today's cordial debate, it has

6:04:486:04:53

certainly been a more pleasant

debate for me to sit through than

6:04:536:04:56

the urgent question I sat through on

Monday, and I will endeavour to

6:04:566:05:01

respond to as many of the points

raised as possible. But let me start

6:05:016:05:06

by recapturing on some of what's

been achieved. And I want to start

6:05:066:05:12

by looking at privatisation in the

round. Last year, and I think the

6:05:126:05:20

statistics are compelling, we

published our rail spending

6:05:206:05:22

commitments for the period from 2019

to 2024. We will be investigating

6:05:226:05:28

£48 billion in our railway, as well

as investment from private sources.

6:05:286:05:34

My right honourable friend the

Member for Derbyshire Dales asked

6:05:346:05:40

for some specific comparisons of the

investment between the period 1997

6:05:406:05:45

and 2010 versus the period 2010 to

2020. As we have repeatedly made

6:05:456:05:54

clear, this Government is making the

largest investment in our railways

6:05:546:05:58

since the Victorian era. The £48

billion over the five years from

6:05:586:06:04

2019, and to give an example of what

that means in practice, it means,

6:06:046:06:09

for example, that we will have

ordered 7122 vehicles for the

6:06:096:06:14

rolling stock fleet compared to in

the period 1997 to 2010, 5000 720. I

6:06:146:06:24

think in a very tangible and

practical sense, that gives members

6:06:246:06:28

a feel for the impact that increased

investment will be having for

6:06:286:06:33

passengers. Because it means

improvements in punctuality and it

6:06:336:06:37

means improvements in reliability

for passengers. And, of course, it

6:06:376:06:44

supports thousands of jobs in the

supply chain and activity in the

6:06:446:06:48

wider economy. The privatisation of

our railways has succeeded.

6:06:486:06:53

Passenger journeys have more than

doubled since 1995 and we have a

6:06:536:06:57

claim to being the most improved

railway in Europe, as well as the

6:06:576:07:02

safest major railway to. In all of

this, this is all happening in what

6:07:026:07:07

is after all one of the oldest

railway networks in the world and

6:07:076:07:10

one of the most intensively used. In

fact, more people are travelling on

6:07:106:07:16

our railways today in any year since

the 1920s on this much smaller

6:07:166:07:22

network and its it is thanks to this

success that we are investing £38

6:07:226:07:32

billion up to the period of 2019 and

48 billion in the period to come.

He

6:07:326:07:39

has just said that privatisation of

our railways has succeeded. Will he

6:07:396:07:44

tell us then whether or not the

Government are going to vote against

6:07:446:07:46

the motion this evening?

Privatisation is that feeding, we

6:07:466:07:55

can see that as I said in the

increased numbers of passengers

6:07:556:07:57

using the network, and the motion

speaks for itself. Honourable

6:07:576:08:03

members are welcome to...

Thank you.

I welcome the new minister to his

6:08:036:08:09

place. I hope he is successful in

this job as he was in his last. As

6:08:096:08:14

he is lifting investments, I hope

that he will not forget the billion

6:08:146:08:17

pound investment that we are making

in the Midland mainline.

I certainly

6:08:176:08:23

do welcome that investment in the

Midland mainline as one of many

6:08:236:08:28

investments that we are making

across the country, part of the £38

6:08:286:08:33

billion that we are spending in the

controlled period to 2019 and as I

6:08:336:08:38

said, a further £48 billion to come,

meaning new stations and rejuvenated

6:08:386:08:43

older stations. Before Christmas, my

right honourable friend the

6:08:436:08:47

Secretary of State set out a new

approach to delivering rail

6:08:476:08:50

services. This new approach doesn't

require the colossal changes that

6:08:506:08:58

nationalisation would require,

keeping the benefits of

6:08:586:09:02

privatisation was keeping vital

infrastructure in public hands and

6:09:026:09:04

preparing our railway to meet the

challenges of the future. The

6:09:046:09:08

Secretary of State earlier in this

debate addressed the accusations

6:09:086:09:12

recently regarding the East Coast

franchise. It is wrong to describe

6:09:126:09:17

this as a bailout when Virgin Trains

east coast were awarded the

6:09:176:09:21

contract, they committed £165

million to support the business if

6:09:216:09:26

it failed to perform as expected,

and as the Secretary of State said,

6:09:266:09:31

we will be holding them to that

commitment in full. They have met

6:09:316:09:35

all their commitments to the

taxpayer so far and are continuing

6:09:356:09:38

to do so. Make no mistake, we will

hold all guarantors including

6:09:386:09:43

Stagecoach to these financial

commitments. We have been making

6:09:436:09:47

significant progress with industry,

with the Secretary of State's vision

6:09:476:09:51

for the East Coast partnership from

2020 and on plans to meet that

6:09:516:09:56

commitment and we do stand by that

commitment in full. I was asked

6:09:566:10:01

about a direct award to virgin

Stagecoach, I refer back to the

6:10:016:10:07

answer the Secretary of State gave.

My department is preparing

6:10:076:10:11

contingency plans that we do not

believe the Virgin Trains East Coast

6:10:116:10:15

franchise will be financially viable

three to 2020 and we intend to

6:10:156:10:19

return to the House in due course

once those plans are in place. Many

6:10:196:10:25

honourable members raised the issue

of affairs. These are at the heart

6:10:256:10:28

of the massive investment going into

the railways and it's only right

6:10:286:10:33

this investment is derived not just

from tax payers money. Passengers

6:10:336:10:37

benefit from the improvements our

investment programme is delivering

6:10:376:10:42

and it's right they make an

investment in this.

The question is

6:10:426:10:54

that the question now be put. I

think the ayes have it. The question

6:10:546:11:01

is as on the order paper. As many as

Rob that opinion say, iMac. IMac. Of

6:11:016:11:11

the country, Lowe. The ayes have it,

the ayes habit. Point of order,

6:11:116:11:18

Anthony McDonald.

6:11:186:11:25

Madam Deputy Speaker, this

Anthony McDonald.

6:11:256:11:26

Madam Deputy Speaker, this motion

Anthony McDonald.

6:11:266:11:26

Madam Deputy Speaker, this motion

has been passed by the House which

6:11:266:11:29

demonstrates unanimously that the

rail franchising system has failed

6:11:296:11:32

and rail should be run in the public

sector. When can we expect a

6:11:326:11:37

statement from the Secretary of

State to outline his plans to

6:11:376:11:41

outline when to implement the will

of the House?

The honourable

6:11:416:11:45

gentleman was quite right when he

says the House has agreed to the

6:11:456:11:50

motion. The Leader of the House has

said previously that on these

6:11:506:11:54

occasions the Secretary of State

will return to the House over the

6:11:546:12:00

next few weeks, to indicate to the

House what action the Government

6:12:006:12:07

proposes to take, as a result of the

motion being passed. There are no

6:12:076:12:14

further points of order. The

question is that this housed in our

6:12:146:12:24

journal. -- that this House do now

adjourn.

6:12:246:12:33

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And

thank you for the opportunity to

6:12:336:12:38

discuss the portents of Academy

division of primary schools in

6:12:386:12:41

Cambridge. I would like to talk

about the necessary tea and runs

6:12:416:12:47

bounce of Academy trusts and the

Academy process itself.

6:12:476:12:51

This debate is timely. There was a

meeting at Saint Philips primary

6:12:546:13:00

school at Romsey ward in the city to

determine the future of the school

6:13:006:13:04

after many months of uncertainty. It

was the issue of the school and the

6:13:046:13:08

process around it which was raised

with me by local parents which

6:13:086:13:13

caused me to take a particularly

close interest in this case, and I

6:13:136:13:19

would like to say that the more I

have seen of it and the more people

6:13:196:13:23

I have spoken to, the more concerned

I have,, hence the request for this

6:13:236:13:26

debate today. I would like to thank

those who brought this issue to my

6:13:266:13:33

attention, particularly local

parents, but also people involved in

6:13:336:13:37

local education who have spoken to

me over the last few weeks, to

6:13:376:13:41

explain what the consequences of

this process has been for this city

6:13:416:13:46

and the surrounding areas of the

city. I would particularly like to

6:13:466:13:50

thank Rachel Evans of the National

education union who has worked

6:13:506:13:55

closely with staff and parents to

get the best outcome for the school

6:13:556:14:00

and wider community. I make no

criticism of those involved locally

6:14:006:14:04

because I believe they have been

doing their very best for the

6:14:046:14:07

school. But it is the process they

have been put through which causes

6:14:076:14:13

me concerns and I think should also

trouble the Minister. And whatever

6:14:136:14:18

one's view of academies in general,

and I will come onto that, there

6:14:186:14:23

must be something wrong when

parents, staff and the local

6:14:236:14:26

community feel they are being

informed by changes to key local is

6:14:266:14:31

dilution but not in any way involved

-- a key local institution. A school

6:14:316:14:43

is a key part of the fabric of our

local communities and we know

6:14:436:14:48

schools do better when they are a

part of their community with close

6:14:486:14:55

parental involvement. I was, like

many of us, a school governor for

6:14:556:14:59

many years, chair of governors at a

voluntary aided Junior School in a

6:14:596:15:03

small market town for ten years. I

have also known this particular

6:15:036:15:08

school, St Philip's, over a number

of years. It is not a school that I

6:15:086:15:17

would have had concerns about but it

did experience a bit in results and

6:15:176:15:19

couple of years ago and the problem

following that I am told where there

6:15:196:15:24

was much too long a delay in

replacing an outgoing headteacher.

6:15:246:15:32

It is important to reflect white

text so long to recruit good

6:15:326:15:36

headteachers. It is no easy task.

But, and this has been demonstrated

6:15:366:15:42

in the swift recovery of results, it

is quite clearly a school with a

6:15:426:15:47

bright future. I would like to

commend the comments made by parents

6:15:476:15:52

in their recent and considered

responses to the recent

6:15:526:15:56

consultation. A strong view urges

that the school has improved

6:15:566:16:02

dramatically. That leads to the

question, if it is improved, why the

6:16:026:16:05

need now for further change which in

itself might be destabilising? And

6:16:056:16:11

as I also do not criticise the

interim executive board who are put

6:16:116:16:14

in place, because I think they too

have been following their

6:16:146:16:18

understanding of the procedure, but

what a flawed procedure it is.

6:16:186:16:22

Parents informed by letter of a

consultation when the outcome is

6:16:226:16:30

assumed to be academisation, and no

sense of any other alternative being

6:16:306:16:32

put on offer. And when parents asked

what say they had in this, the

6:16:326:16:36

response being pretty much, yes, you

can express an opinion but this is

6:16:366:16:40

what is going to happen. Today's

special meeting was only inviting

6:16:406:16:48

organisations to make presentations

in favour of academisation, and

6:16:486:16:52

quite rightly I think, parents did

protest, I protested, and I am

6:16:526:16:59

pleased to say that the IEB did

invite people in with local views,

6:16:596:17:04

-- other views, including local

councillors. I do not know what the

6:17:046:17:07

outcome of that meeting is and I

suspect parents do not know yet

6:17:076:17:13

either. It really should not have

needed protests to be put. It is not

6:17:136:17:18

clear what other options are being

considered. The apparently preferred

6:17:186:17:23

option from the outset was joining

the local buses and -- local trust.

6:17:236:17:39

Should a city school be swallowed up

by a sprawling organisation over a

6:17:396:17:44

huge geographic area, and one whose

effectiveness is by no means

6:17:446:17:51

convincing to people in the area?

And what about the concerns of many

6:17:516:17:57

in an area with a very diverse

catchment area, but moved to a trust

6:17:576:18:13

is very concerning. Those who have

expressed their Christian faith have

6:18:136:18:18

raised this point. What

consideration has been given that

6:18:186:18:24

schools should stay within the local

authority. Local people were not

6:18:246:18:35

offered any of these choices, only a

one-way path to academisation. What

6:18:356:18:41

would a minister say to parents who

say they do not want their child

6:18:416:18:52

taught by unqualified teachers? How

does that parent get a say and how

6:18:526:18:57

do they influence a decision. What

if every parent in the school shared

6:18:576:19:00

that view? The answer is not very

obvious. I think St Philip's

6:19:006:19:14

illustrates a wider problem with

multi-card me trusts. They take

6:19:146:19:20

public money but they are not widely

accountable to their communities. We

6:19:206:19:25

know local authorities can be flawed

but they are by definition

6:19:256:19:30

accountable. You can vote them out

and get rid of academies. --

6:19:306:19:35

councillors. Academies do not have

to have local people on their

6:19:356:19:43

boards. I am told by one emerging

multi-Academy trust, but when they

6:19:436:19:48

sought to include local authority

representation on their board, they

6:19:486:19:53

were told by the Department fridge

and that they could not. Maybe the

6:19:536:19:57

Minister could confirm whether that

is the case or not, and if it is,

6:19:576:20:01

why locally elected representatives

are so excluded. -- the Department

6:20:016:20:07

for Education. Some multi-Academy

trusts in my area do have boards

6:20:076:20:16

full of impressive management

figures and business figures and

6:20:166:20:19

they are impressive. We are

fortunate because my area has such

6:20:196:20:23

people available. But what they are

singularly lacking in people who

6:20:236:20:27

work on the front line, the parents,

teachers, the school meal

6:20:276:20:31

supervisors, the people who know

what is on. I might mischievously

6:20:316:20:40

suggest that the current Education

Secretary takes a look at these

6:20:406:20:43

boards. And if he looks, and this is

a depressing situation, as he looks,

6:20:436:21:01

he will come across an array of

Mission statements and management

6:21:016:21:06

gobbledygook. Pursuit of excellence,

uniting with a common purpose, an

6:21:066:21:15

outstanding education for all

children is at the heart of our

6:21:156:21:19

vision.

I know they have to do it and I even

6:21:196:21:22

have some sympathy for the poor

people having to sit down and draft

6:21:226:21:26

a lot of this drivel, but it is

nonsense and we all know it. It may

6:21:266:21:32

give us a chuckle when we are

watching W one A, but this is the

6:21:326:21:37

real world, it is not honest.

Honesty in times of really tight

6:21:376:21:41

budgets, not Silicon Valley vomit

inducing fluff. Honesty would say

6:21:416:21:48

something like: trying to make ends

meet and retain teachers for more

6:21:486:21:52

than 18 months, in a high cost area,

through being part of the inspiring

6:21:526:21:57

community which works together.

Some people are trying to do just

6:21:576:22:00

that, but you have to read between

the lines of the waffle to discern

6:22:006:22:04

it. And nowhere on those glossy

newly branded websites do you find

6:22:046:22:09

what you really want to know, just

how many unqualified teachers are

6:22:096:22:14

being employed? Just what changes

have been made to the terms and

6:22:146:22:24

conditions of those employed? Just

what changes have been made when the

6:22:246:22:27

school moves away from the National

Curriculum? That is what should be

6:22:276:22:29

up there in lights, the truth. There

is a further problem which the

6:22:296:22:32

Cambridge experience has

highlighted, with multi-card me

6:22:326:22:36

trusts, their complex structures

make local accountability extremely

6:22:366:22:39

difficult. -- multi-Academy trusts.

They are overseen by the regional

6:22:396:22:46

schools Commissioners, another

extraordinary Opec structure largely

6:22:466:22:48

invisible to parents in the wider

world. And in my view, slightly

6:22:486:22:55

curious role that given that this

government abolished regions. They

6:22:556:23:02

do not talk to the media.

Unsurprisingly, schools going

6:23:026:23:07

through this process are reluctant

to speak to the media. So it is not

6:23:076:23:11

much of the prize that many people

in the local community have any idea

6:23:116:23:15

what is going on. That may well suit

the Government's purposes. But it is

6:23:156:23:20

a rotten way to run public services

in a democracy and it will come

6:23:206:23:24

unstuck. It does rather begs the

question. What is it that the

6:23:246:23:28

Government are so afraid that the

public might find out? And in

6:23:286:23:35

passing, Cambridge people are

suddenly waking up to the fact that

6:23:356:23:37

through these subterranean and

opaque processes, Cambridge will now

6:23:376:23:42

be a beneficiary of a new free

school run by none other than Mr

6:23:426:23:47

Toby Young. I'm sure that Cambridge

will want none of that. And perhaps

6:23:476:23:53

the Minister can also give some

guidance on how that can be stopped.

6:23:536:23:57

Why does this matter? Because the

system spends and allocates public

6:23:576:24:02

money to educate children. Why

should parents and communities not

6:24:026:24:05

be able to simply and quickly ask

questions and get answers.

6:24:056:24:10

Multi-Academy trust are bound to

release reports periodically. They

6:24:106:24:15

do not give information for parents

and local community members would

6:24:156:24:18

like to see. As I suggest, academies

work to different rules to locally

6:24:186:24:25

supported school so can we ask how

it is going? I asked the Minister

6:24:256:24:30

tonight, how many an qualified

teachers are there? How have terms

6:24:306:24:35

and conditions changed and what

impact has that had on pupils'

6:24:356:24:40

education? I hope the Minister will

be able to answer that if he cannot,

6:24:406:24:44

why not? And if he cannot, who can?

Why are parents and communities

6:24:446:24:49

being kept in the dark? Beyond those

practical questions, there is the

6:24:496:24:55

wider question of what schools are

for. Primarily, they are to educate

6:24:556:24:59

children to help them fulfil their

potential and flourish and equip

6:24:596:25:02

them with the schools and knowledge

for their lives. But they are also

6:25:026:25:06

more than this. They're also

community hubs to bring people

6:25:066:25:11

together, to allow a neighbouring

families to have conversations, to

6:25:116:25:15

hold community events and hold

spaces which the local community can

6:25:156:25:21

access. Have seen the work done at

schools which have been stricken by

6:25:216:25:27

austerity and underfunding. There

was support that a school in

6:25:276:25:30

Southwark gave to local refugees far

beyond the call of duty. We must

6:25:306:25:35

stop seeing schools as places

blinkered by assessment and wrote,

6:25:356:25:40

but environments for proper

development. We need a vision to see

6:25:406:25:50

beyond a single cohort, to give

community is the means to hold

6:25:506:25:53

schools accountable for the people

they serve. And further still,

6:25:536:25:58

within this fragmented and opaque

system, there are costs as well. The

6:25:586:26:03

emergence of multi-Academy trusts

has led to competition between

6:26:036:26:07

academies to gather further schools

into their organisation. Instead of

6:26:076:26:11

working collaboratively for the

public good, we have organisations

6:26:116:26:14

eyeing each other up, eager to pick

up schools which may have had a

6:26:146:26:18

blip. Even better if

6:26:186:26:29

they have some financial reserves.

Maybe should be more like football

6:26:386:26:40

or a transfer window, when schools

have a period of the year when they

6:26:406:26:43

do not need to be fighting off

predators. In my constituency, there

6:26:436:26:45

are eight trusts all vying for

growth. There will be people working

6:26:456:26:48

on marketing and brand development

and they will be paying audit fees.

6:26:486:26:50

As always, it is public money which

is being spent and it has resulted

6:26:506:26:53

in a system of overlapping opaque

organisations using the public purse

6:26:536:26:55

in a way which no one locally

understands. It is reminiscent in

6:26:556:27:00

fact of what happened to the

National Health Service under the

6:27:006:27:03

last Conservative government. I

remember Frank Dobson having to come

6:27:036:27:06

and clear up the mess and famously

sent to competing trusts: first and

6:27:066:27:10

foremost you are all part of the NHS

and providing health care has to

6:27:106:27:22

come first. I would say Academy

trusts have to be redirected back to

6:27:226:27:25

the purpose of education and the

public good.

6:27:256:27:34

The professional support offered to

schools was a very important

6:27:346:27:40

resource and it should continue to

be. I don't want to see a system

6:27:406:27:44

where the process of attrition is no

longer available to the schools who

6:27:446:27:48

need them. I would like to conclude

by looking forwards because

6:27:486:27:52

fortunately, I think it is possible

to see a way to adapt existing

6:27:526:27:57

structures and improve local

accountability and representation.

6:27:576:27:59

Bringing some of these trusts

together, rebranding them as the

6:27:596:28:04

education service, adding the voices

of parent governors and trade union

6:28:046:28:10

represented his weird greatly

improve these organisations for the

6:28:106:28:13

communities that fund them and which

they serve and would improve

6:28:136:28:17

transparency. In turn, that would

rebuild public trust and embed

6:28:176:28:22

schools within the communities

rather than impose new rules without

6:28:226:28:26

communication. I have to say, some

of us saw all of this coming which

6:28:266:28:30

is why in the election last year

there was a new vision on offer, one

6:28:306:28:35

similar to that I've just outlined

and the Labour manifesto said, we

6:28:356:28:38

will impose any attempt for all

schools to become academies and we

6:28:386:28:43

will ensure all schools are

democratically accountable including

6:28:436:28:46

controls to show they work within

the community. In my opinion, those

6:28:466:28:56

who send their children to the local

schools and work within the

6:28:566:28:58

community are best placed to be

involved within them, a point best

6:28:586:29:02

made by the Shadow Minister of

education, and I can say with

6:29:026:29:08

confidence that that is how a number

of people filling Cambridge, those I

6:29:086:29:12

have spoken to. Parents and staff at

Saint Philips and in other schools

6:29:126:29:17

around Cambridge likely to find

themselves embroiled in similar

6:29:176:29:20

conversations in coming months well

I hope the given reassurances from

6:29:206:29:25

the Education Secretary tonight, a

new Education Secretary which gives

6:29:256:29:30

the opportunity for a new start

working with communities rather than

6:29:306:29:33

against them. Sadly, this is so much

a conversation about structures when

6:29:336:29:39

it would be better if we were

talking about standards and what is

6:29:396:29:43

needed to support, encourage and

inspire the teachers that we know

6:29:436:29:46

are the real key to those higher

standards and about how to pay them

6:29:466:29:50

sufficiently to be able to live in

high-cost areas like Cambridge and

6:29:506:29:55

to stay, rather than go, as happens

all too often. I hope tonight that

6:29:556:29:59

they will hear that the Minister has

heard and that the messages that we

6:29:596:30:03

will work with you, help you to

improve, not that the only way is

6:30:036:30:07

academies and buy one route or

another, because that is what it has

6:30:076:30:11

felt like in Cambridge and I fear in

far too many other places as well.

6:30:116:30:18

Can I start by congratulating the

honourable member for Cambridge on

6:30:186:30:22

securing this debate? It is timely,

as it allows me to outline why

6:30:226:30:27

academies are important elements in

the Government's success and drive

6:30:276:30:31

in raising standards in our schools.

Today, there are 1.9 million more

6:30:316:30:37

pupils in schools graded by Ofsted

as good or outstanding and there

6:30:376:30:42

were in 2010. Standards are rising

in our secondary schools, standards

6:30:426:30:48

are rising in our primary schools,

teachers have more autonomy now to

6:30:486:30:52

run their schools. Hundred and 4000

more 60 rods are reading effectively

6:30:526:30:58

as the consequence of the hard work

of teachers but also the reforms

6:30:586:31:03

implemented by this Government.

There are more young people taking

6:31:036:31:07

double or triple science today, 91%

entered for those GCSEs today than

6:31:076:31:12

in 2010 when 63% were taking that

combination. So we are a Government

6:31:126:31:17

determined to raise academic

standards right across the system in

6:31:176:31:20

our schools and the reason we are

having this debate today, the reason

6:31:206:31:24

the honourable gentleman is raising

these issues all stems from the fact

6:31:246:31:27

that Cambridgeshire County Council

were concerned about standards at

6:31:276:31:33

Saint Philips Catholic primary

School and that is why they issued a

6:31:336:31:36

warning notice to the school and it

is from that that we have the

6:31:366:31:41

establishment of the interim

executive board who are now

6:31:416:31:44

consulting with parents about

converting the school into an

6:31:446:31:47

academy to be run by a Academy trust

and they are consulting with

6:31:476:31:53

parents, there have been many

hundreds of responses to the

6:31:536:31:57

consultation process, and they have

extended the time over that

6:31:576:32:01

consultation process, so they do

want to work with the local

6:32:016:32:03

community and they do want to work

with parents, to hear parental

6:32:036:32:08

views, but the overriding objective

of the regional schools commissioner

6:32:086:32:11

and this Government and

Cambridgeshire County Council is to

6:32:116:32:15

see standards improving all our

schools right across the country.

6:32:156:32:20

Since 2010, the number of schools

benefiting from Academy freedoms in

6:32:206:32:24

this country has grown from 200,

when the last Labour Government left

6:32:246:32:29

office, to more than 7000 and this

is a system, the professional

6:32:296:32:36

autonomy that academies and brings,

that started under the last Labour

6:32:366:32:40

Government and we have built on that

process to give autonomy to run

6:32:406:32:44

schools free from political

interference and to raise standards

6:32:446:32:47

and we have now reached the point

where 7000 schools now have that

6:32:476:32:52

professional autonomy and that

academy status. More than one third

6:32:526:32:56

state funded schools are now part of

multi Academy trust and the Mahdi

6:32:566:33:01

Academy trust model is a powerful

vehicle for raising academic

6:33:016:33:07

standards by sharing, for example, a

financial back-office and its skills

6:33:076:33:13

and facilities, teaching resources

and partnering the best of our state

6:33:136:33:17

funded schools with schools which is

struggling. Two thirds of our

6:33:176:33:21

academies are what are known as

converter academies, good schools

6:33:216:33:26

which made the decision to convert,

and many of these have converted

6:33:266:33:32

multi Academy trusts, helping other

schools to improve. A further 2000

6:33:326:33:36

schools have become academies with a

sponsor in order to raise the

6:33:366:33:42

education they are providing. Since

2014, the number of multi Academy

6:33:426:33:45

trusts has doubled and 79% of all

academies are in a multi Academy

6:33:456:33:54

trust, with 62% of those in a multi

Academy trusts of five or more

6:33:546:34:00

schools. Over 450,000 pupils now

study in good or outstanding

6:34:006:34:06

sponsored academies which were

previously typically underperforming

6:34:066:34:09

schools. Pupils in secondary

converter schools are making more

6:34:096:34:18

progress for their students than in

other types of schools and 90% of

6:34:186:34:22

converter academies are rated as

good or outstanding. And for sponsor

6:34:226:34:30

academies, since 2010, 60 5% of the

schools which were previously

6:34:306:34:34

inadequate when under local

authority control are now rated good

6:34:346:34:39

or outstanding since becoming a

sponsored Academy when an inspection

6:34:396:34:43

has taken place. A good example of

what Academy sponsorship is able to

6:34:436:34:47

achieve is the Harris Academy in

Battersea, which is the highest

6:34:476:34:52

performing sponsored Academy in

England. In 2017, it had a progress

6:34:526:34:58

eight score of 1.49, placing it in

the top 1% of all schools. The

6:34:586:35:05

National foundation for educational

research reported that sponsored

6:35:056:35:09

academies are significantly more

likely to be rated as outstanding

6:35:096:35:13

compared to similar local authority

maintained schools. The professional

6:35:136:35:18

autonomy of academy status leads to

a more dynamic and responsive

6:35:186:35:22

education system, giving

headteachers the opportunity to make

6:35:226:35:26

decisions based on the interests of

their pupils and medical need and it

6:35:266:35:30

allows high performing schools to

spread that excellence across to

6:35:306:35:35

other schools. The Government is

determined to raise academic

6:35:356:35:38

standards by encouraging evidence

-based teaching, building on a

6:35:386:35:42

knowledge rich curriculum and

providing teachers and school

6:35:426:35:45

leaders with the autonomy to drive

school improvement. I circumspect

6:35:456:35:51

the Minister would like -- I suspect

the honourable member would like to

6:35:516:36:00

intervene.

I would put to him the

essential part in my speech again,

6:36:006:36:06

that where you have a school which

has recovered, the results are good,

6:36:066:36:10

it's doing well, there's clearly

strong support for it as in this

6:36:106:36:14

case, why would you want to further

destabilise it when there is such

6:36:146:36:17

strong support in the local

community for it to stay of it is?

6:36:176:36:21

As I said, in 2016, Cambridgeshire

County Council issued the school

6:36:216:36:26

with a warning notice and it is to

ensure sustainability of standards

6:36:266:36:31

that the interim executive board was

established. They are consulting on

6:36:316:36:35

next steps, they have taken the

decision that they think it's best

6:36:356:36:38

for the school to become an academy

under the dioceses. They are

6:36:386:36:42

consulting on that decision, they

are taking parents views into

6:36:426:36:47

account, they had a meeting today

and they will continue to go through

6:36:476:36:52

that progress. Overall in

Cambridgeshire, 97% of all secondary

6:36:526:36:56

schools are now academies all three

schools and we expect this to be

6:36:566:37:02

100% soon. One third of primary

schools are academies or three

6:37:026:37:08

schools. We expect that to rise over

this year as well. For the

6:37:086:37:16

honourable gentleman's constituency,

there are six secondary schools,

6:37:166:37:20

five are an academy and the

remaining school intends to become

6:37:206:37:23

an academy this term. Just two of

the primary schools are either an

6:37:236:37:30

academy or a free school and for

primary schools are going through

6:37:306:37:33

the progress -- process of joining a

multi Academy trust. This is

6:37:336:37:38

significantly lower than elsewhere

in Cambridgeshire. In September 20

6:37:386:37:43

82% of primary schools in Cambridge

where they did good or outstanding

6:37:436:37:47

by Ofsted and in November last year

this has risen to 91%, above the

6:37:476:37:53

national average. Four of five

secondary academies have positive

6:37:536:37:58

progress eight schools, including

part of the Cambridge educational

6:37:586:38:04

trust which is in the top 1% of

schools nationally and was greeted

6:38:046:38:10

by Ofsted recently as being

outstanding.

6:38:106:38:21

They have received approval to

establish two new free schools

6:38:266:38:34

including a specialist asthmatic

school in Cambridge working in

6:38:346:38:36

partnership with the University. I

will happily give way to the

6:38:366:38:39

honourable gentleman. -- a

specialist mathematics school.

I

6:38:396:38:45

appreciate his generosity. I tried

not to single out individual

6:38:456:38:49

organisations apart from the one

that had still related this debate

6:38:496:38:53

but I would take the opportunity on

the back of that eulogy once again

6:38:536:38:56

did that to the Minister, here's not

taking the opportunity to answer any

6:38:566:39:01

other questions I posed. How many

unqualified teachers are being

6:39:016:39:06

employed? What to conditions are

being made in the multi Academy

6:39:066:39:13

trusts that he referred to? It's

hard to know how to find out.

The

6:39:136:39:17

multi Academy trusts, the early

dioceses Mahdi Academy trust, does

6:39:176:39:23

not use unqualified teachers -- the

early dioceses multi Academy trust.

6:39:236:39:36

Nationally, 95% of teachers are

qualified and those who do not have

6:39:366:39:40

qualified teacher status generally

have the knowledge or experience to

6:39:406:39:43

bring to the school which is why the

school has employed them. Where

6:39:436:39:48

standards have not met expectations,

the regional schools Commissioner

6:39:486:39:50

and the local authority will work

together to target and performance

6:39:506:39:56

and action has been taken to ensure

sustainable school improvement,

6:39:566:40:01

including requiring poorly

performing schools to join multi

6:40:016:40:04

Academy trusts. For example, North

Cambridge Academy, formerly Manor

6:40:046:40:08

community college has been

transformed by Cambridge Meridian

6:40:086:40:12

Academy trust. It began as a school

in special measures and is now

6:40:126:40:19

graded as good with progress in the

top 30% nationally. I am aware the

6:40:196:40:24

gentleman has been involved in the

Saint Philips Church of England

6:40:246:40:28

aided school in Cambridge and as I

said, the local authority

6:40:286:40:32

established an executive board at

the request of the former governing

6:40:326:40:34

body which felt unable to address

the performance concerns at the

6:40:346:40:39

school. Part of the interim

executive board role has been to

6:40:396:40:43

consider the long-term future of the

school and their decision on the

6:40:436:40:47

future of the school is being

considered again, as I said, at the

6:40:476:40:51

meeting today. This will then --

this will include the option of

6:40:516:40:58

academisation following discussions

with parents. I know the honourable

6:40:586:41:03

gentleman met with them to discuss

the future of the school. There is a

6:41:036:41:11

strong relationship between the

school and the regional schools

6:41:116:41:14

Commissioner and they met on a

regular basis. Can I just conclude

6:41:146:41:22

by saying that standards and our

primary schools and secondary

6:41:226:41:25

schools are rising? 1.9 million more

children are attending school that

6:41:256:41:31

are good or outstanding than in 2010

and the academisation programme the

6:41:316:41:35

honourable gentleman has been

talking about has been key to

6:41:356:41:39

raising those academic standards.

The question is that this House do

6:41:396:41:45

now adjourned. As many are that

opinions they aye. Aye. The ayes

6:41:456:41:51

have it.

6:41:516:41:54