06/09/2016 House of Lords


06/09/2016

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That they enter the date and he has a Commons. We will now be going over

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to the House of Lords. You can watch all the coverage in the Lords after

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the Daily Politics tonight. Our NAV was disappointed that the

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Government response failed to acknowledge the problem which was

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raised with the Committee that many enunciated system fitted on trains

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are not switched on. They would like to see on trains such as are already

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carried out buses. The Government response acknowledges the benefits

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of AV information on buses but this is urgent that such systems are

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expensive to fit. Evidence submitted to the Committee 's Stepford it adds

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only 1% of the cost of a new boss. RNIB is very concerned that the bus

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operators continue to recruit new buses that were not fitted AV

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enhancement technology, for example in 2016, Leeds first was announced

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at 37 new buses which are expected to be used for at least ten years

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would enter service, none of them having annunciator system is that it

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is. The Government stated in its response to a recommendation that it

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has recently trialled vibrating wristbands to improve the

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accessibility of bus travel. However there is reason to be sceptical

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about this solution as it is still only at provision of concept stage.

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RNIB believes that audiovisual technology is the most effective

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solution, the technology is tried and tested and it has been proven to

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make bus travel accessible for disabled passengers. It is already

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in operation on all buses in London as well as in many other regions and

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can be introduced to new buses inexpensively. The bus services Bill

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currently awaiting Report Stage in your Lordships' house is the ideal

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vehicle for the Government to legislate to ensure all new buses

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are fitted with audiovisual technology. An amendment has been

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tabled to the Bill to require all bus operators to provide information

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to bus passengers in an accessible format. The Government is

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considering the matter sympathetically and I very much hope

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that they will accept the amendment to require operators to install AV

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on all new buses. It is gratifying that this recommendation has been

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highlighted by Lady Deitch, and I think most recently by Lady Brenton

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and I hope that the Government has been listening and taking note. My

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Lords, I do think the Noble Baroness, Baroness Deitch and her

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Committee for the service they have done, not just the disabled

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community, but also government and indeed society as a whole, in

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producing such a comprehensive valuable and timely report. As two

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bonuses have already pointed out, taking as it does, 21 years after

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the then Conservative government's disability discrimination act. This

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begs the question, which I feel in truth has probably been hanging over

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this entire debate. Has that act at 21 years of age truly, of age?

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Reading this report --, of age. Reading throughput and the various

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responses to it, I think it is her it hasn't come of age. But

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nonetheless, -- fair to say. I do welcome with real hope, based on my

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work with her previously, the promotion of penny fault as Minister

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for disabled people to Minister of State. There is in line with

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recommendations seven, paragraph 115 of the report. I also welcome the

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Government's acceptance that it is clearly reasonable to expect that

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some effort be made to establish the cost of making an adjustment prior

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to rejecting a request on such grounds rather than relying on

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arbitrary and potentially inaccurate assumptions about cost. This being

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in line with recommendations 17, paragraph 200 25. My Lords, I would

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have liked to be able to welcome the equality and Human Rights

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Commission's response to the crucial, in my view, recommendation

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eight paragraph 137 of the report, that it engages with disabled people

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and their organisations to co-produce a disability specific

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action plan which other Noble Lords have already mentioned. I regret

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that I can't do so, because commission mistakenly in my view has

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said as we have already heard that it does not consider that a separate

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co-produced action plan would be the most effective way forward. As a

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former member of a national disability Council set up by my

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noble friend from Richmond, when he was Mr, several people had taken the

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then disability discrimination Bill through the House of Commons.

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Despite the Council only being advisory, none the less it had a

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disability specific focus. I also beg to differ, like the Noble

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Baroness, Baroness Campbell and my noble friend Lord North but have

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already done. I also do not understand the position taken by the

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commission on recommendation that name, paragraph 144 rejecting the

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need to re-establish the disability Committee as a decision-making body.

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And to ring fence specific resources for the Committee. Surely both are

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essential if the commission is to enjoy the confidence of the

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disability community and an important consideration which I

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don't feel the commission has really taken into account, I therefore urge

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the commission to reconsider their response to both recommendations

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eight and nine. And indeed I would respectfully urge the Government to

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encourage them to do so. The Conservative government that brought

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ten the GGA in 1995 was right to ensure sharp disability focused

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then, and notwithstanding the amalgamation since that time of

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different commissions, including as we have already heard the disability

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rights commission under the umbrella of the equality and Human Rights

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Commission, this Conservative government would be right to ask now

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that that sharp disability focus be maintained. I feel this is

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particularly important given the Government's manifesto aim of

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halving the disability employment gap. I Lords, I am not sure I

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entirely shared the Government's optimism when it states in its

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response that the concept of reasonable adjustment is now

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familiar to employers and service providers. The concept they will be

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familiar, but that is the case, then the old adage, that familiarity

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breeds contempt remains all too often sadly true in my experience.

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Awareness of a concept is not the same as awareness of a legal

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obligation. I am all for maximising incentives by using carrots rather

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than sticks where possible, but I do wonder whether carrots in the form

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of it more guidance on how to make your business accessible have been

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on Jews cropped very long time. To paraphrase -- on used. It isn't

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going to get us very far. If they don't understand there has to be a

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damn big stick behind that smile. Might I suggest that the Government

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pursue a slightly more robust approach by introducing a steam of

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tapered incentives for reasonable adjustment to be made, so for

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example, business is to be told they have a certain number of years, I

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only take the figure five as Brandon, it could be more or less,

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to make the necessary adjustments with a declining tax break for the

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first three years, no tax break in the fourth, and a tax penalty led by

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government, any noncompliance in the 50th. Obviously the -- fifth year.

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Obviously the Government would need to work in partnership with trade

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bodies, disability organisations and other disability aims to make

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service providers and particularly SMEs are aware that reasonable

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adjustments need not cost the earth. Might I also suggest that any

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guidance produced to publicise the scheme has, as its title, the simple

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message, the law is the law, it pays not to break. My Lords, this report

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shows that after 21 years after the disability discrimination act was

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passed, we still need to join the dots. I wonder if I could welcome

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the Government's stated commitment in paragraph four of the preamble to

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its response to improving attitudes. I also welcome its restated

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commitment to taking steps to implement the UN Convention on the

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rights of Persons with disabilities. And they clear acknowledgement that

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such a commitment means that all government departments need to

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consider what the Convention says when developing a policy that

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affects disabled people, including in the case of the UN Convention

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disability before birth. This is particularly important, because I am

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concerned that one department, the Department of Health, may be in

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breach of at least the spirit if not the letter of that convention, as it

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relates to disability before birth. If this excellent report is to have

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a lasting impact, if we are too submitted to policy, we must allow

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disabled babies to have a future to enjoy equality. At the moment many

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of them do not. They said, shocking fact is that a diagnosis of

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disability in the womb means they are all too often lucky to make it

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out alive. Disability discrimination may have been outlawed after birth

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21 years ago, but for disability diagnosed before birth,

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discrimination remains enshrined in 2016 in the law of our land. Take

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down syndrome, for example. 90%, 90% of Down's syndrome diagnoses result

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in termination. That figure is likely to increase if the Department

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of Health improves the national screening Committee's recommendation

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that a test being produced to make it even easier to identify.

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It is one thing to eradicate disability discrimination as this

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excellent report powerfully shows the way forward for. It is an

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entirely different thing to eradicate disability itself through

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termination. But that is what is happening and not just on grounds of

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severe handicap, to use the terminology of legislation. Not that

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severity justifies discrimination. The Department of Health in 2015

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records 11 terminations having been carried out for cleft palate, and

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cleft chin, easily rectified able conditions. I asked my noble friend

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the Minister if the Government wants to prove its commitment to tackling

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the discriminatory attitudes, let it back by Private members Bill. Let it

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make the time available so that my bill can reach its passage through

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your Lordships' house and MPs, as people's elected representatives

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have a chance to debate and vote on removing disability as grounds for

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termination. My thoughts, in closing. We all know that some

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reports not from your Lordships' house I hasten to add, absolutely

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deserve to gather dust. This is not one of them. This report deserves to

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be a living document to which we return on a regular basis and

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against which we measure progress. I look forward to doing everything I

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can to ensure that by eradicating disability discrimination in all

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areas of life, after and before birth, with this report, we do

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parliament and Society Justice in the years to come and help this

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Government embark on real, lasting and inclusive social reform.

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My Lords, it has been a great privilege to listen to this debate,

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as much as it was to serve on the select committee. What the debate

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has demonstrated is the extraordinary range of experiences

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that members of our Lordships' house bring to the subject of disability

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and I would like to thank every of them has spoken, particularly from

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their own experiences in life, to be able to bring such light on the

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subject. Almost every Speaker has revoked to our noble Baroness for

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the way in which she chaired the committee. -- they have referred to

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her. And the way that she introduced this debate today and I would like

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to join them both in that respect. It was a remarkable committee,

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chaired brilliantly by her. She should also be congratulated for

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persuading the usual channels to hold this debate in prime time, so

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soon in the autumn session. Not something I expected to see happen,

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so that is a great achievement. As we come lovable baroness Lady Thomas

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of Winchester say, we produced a really good read, and that is a good

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epitaph on the committee report. -- noble Baroness. It was unanimous,

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hard-hitting and full of recommendations that if they were

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all entered upon would make a huge difference to the well-being and

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life experiences of disabled people across a very wide range of

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activities. And it was, therefore, a pity that the Government's response

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was really so feeble and unambitious. When it came out on the

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7th of July, which was one month and 13 days later than the Cabinet

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Office's guidance for responses to select committee report, the lady

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was quoted as saying she was dismayed to put it mildly. It was a

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really unfeeling response, not helpful to make life more productive

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for disabled people. I think are totally with that, my Lords, and I

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support the cause made in that debate for the response from the

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Government to be withdrawn and rewritten. I am much it is a new

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Government but a new sort of administration. -- I'm not sure it

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is a new Government but a new sort of administration. Other members

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have spoke of new areas of this report and Government response where

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they have their own areas of expertise. I shall concentrate

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briefly and recommendations 21 and 22, relating to disabled access to

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sports grounds, which are covered in paragraphs 245 - 249 of the report.

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I remind the House of my interest as a vice president of the charity

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Level Playing Field. Lord Northbrook, Lord Harrison and

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Baroness Brinton all referred to the Accessible Sports Grounds Bill which

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I took through this house in 2015. With the exception of the then

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minister, not the minister replying tonight, who was approaching that

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debate and can best be described as lukewarm, every member who spoke in

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the second reading debate on the 17th of July, were strongly

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supportive. Particularly in respect of the principle that each stadium

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should follow accessible stadium guidelines, and improve the

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experience for disabled people attending their matches. Now, whilst

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it was evident the bill would not make progress in the other place

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with our Government's support, it did produce one positive consequence

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and that was the response from the English Premier League on the 10th

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of September 2000 and 15. This stated, and I quote, all Premier

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League clubs have agreed to make their stadiums compliant with the

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accessible stadium guide by August 20 17. Clubs also agreed to ensure

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the appropriate number of wheelchair bays are located in the correct

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sections. If this commitment were fulfilled to the letter, it would

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represent a huge step forward by the best supported and most affluent

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clubs in British football. Particularly if the lead given by

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the Premier League will follow by the other football leagues in

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England, Wales and Scotland, and those sports with significant

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numbers of fans attending their matches. In its report, our select

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committee quoted approvingly the comment of Justin Tomlinson MP, who

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was then Minister for disabled people. He is sadly no longer in

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that post. He told me that most football clubs in this country are

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behind when it comes to disability access to their grounds the Mac. It

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is my belief that football should be enjoyed by everyone and someone with

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a disability should have as much opportunity to watch the game as

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someone without a disability. The following paragraph of our report

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says this, and provision of disabled people, Justin Tomlinson similarly

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confirmed that frankly some of it is disgraceful. There is no provision

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in some grounds. Supporters are split up or put in with the away

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fans. I find that totally unacceptable. We are in the last

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chance saloon with those of football bodies saying, you need to get your

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house in order. Had my members bill become law, clubs which failed to

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comply with the accessible stadium guidelines could have lost their

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safety certificates and their stadiums prevented from operating.

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Without that sanction, disabled people would have two rely on the

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goodwill of the clubs themselves to deliver what they promised by summer

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next year. I am afraid, my Lords, I am not holding my breath. I advise

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that the long-awaited report from the Premier League regarding the

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progress of its clubs with one year to go, it was sent to the Secretary

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of State. I am told that it seems to say very little and contains no

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detail about the real progress at each club. It appears that there

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will be at least some Premier League clubs that will not meet the pledge

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by August 2017 as agreed and previously promised. The range of

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excuses put forward by clubs as to why they will not or frankly

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unacceptable. Liverpool football club, for example, seems far more

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interested in providing general hospitality places than installing

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sufficient disabled fans seats in order to comply with football's own

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minimum standards. No cc for disabled people would ensure that

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the club meets its pledges, but instead it's disabled fans are

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expected to wait for phase two of its stadium expansion whenever that

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may be. Watford seems to be removing disabled fans seats at a time when

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they should be seeing an increase. Crystal Palace believes it only

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needs to come up with a plan by 2017 rather than comply with the

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amendment. It further transpires that the newly promoted clubs will

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be given a one-year extension to meet the premiership pledge, as they

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had not been part of the original decision. It is thought that they

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should be afforded the same two-year cycle. This misses the point

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completely, my Lords. It is more than 20 years, as other noble lords

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have said Mr Gray, since the introduction of part three of the

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DDA, and it is lot that they are required to provide that

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accommodation and disgrace they have not done so. -- it is the law. It is

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clearly Premier League has no intention to appeal is essentially

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clubs which do not meet their own pledge. -- no intention to sanction

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the clubs. Quite recently, the noble lord Lord Ashton reply to a written

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question for me in these words. Ministers expect all sports and all

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clubs to his guns do not make the reasonable adjustments to

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accommodate disabled spectators are set out in the equality act 2010 to

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take action to fulfil this legal obligation. Given the vast financial

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resources at the disposal of premiership clubs, which noble lords

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have referred to, the time has surely come for this action to be

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taken now and taking any more drastic way. It is so disappointing

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that, in response to the select committee's recommendation 21, that

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the Government should include provisions similar to those of the

:26:34.:26:38.

Accessible Sports Grounds Bill in a Government bill, but they have said

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they have no plans to introduce one as existing legislation in the form

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of the Equality Act remains "Untested" on access to sports

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stadiums for disabled people. That is a truly bizarre excuse my Lords

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and publicly ignores what the select committee said in paragraph 240

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seven. The equality act 2010 has not succeeded in getting disabled sports

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fans the access to stadiums to which they are entitled and new measures

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are needed. A particular problem is the wall's requirement that only

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individuals may take actions against institutions which are filling in

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their duty to comply with the act. The nature of the relationship

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between a football fan and his or her own club is often deep rooted

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and passionate and makes it hard but I would say it makes it impossible

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for the fan to initiate proceedings. This my Lords is why we recommend

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recommendation 42 that the Government should consider changing

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the law to allow charities and other bodies which do not have a legal

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interest to bring proceedings in the interest of classes of disabled

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people who are not themselves claimants. I hope that when the

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minister replies, she is able to give a convincing reason for not

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allowing charities to bring class actions. I would also ask her to

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give a response to the Premier League's report on progress towards

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meeting their August 2017 accessibility commitment. Also, an

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indication of what they plan to do if the clubs let the disabled

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supporters down. My Lords, as somebody who did not

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serve on the committee, I think this whole experience with this debate

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has been incredibly interesting, and the equality of the speeches takes

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away some of my irritation at not having been able to get onto that

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committee. However, my Lords, even a committee of this type, doing this

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much work, could not cover everything to do with the field of

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disability. I say that as the first declaration of interest that I am

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dyslexic. And the president of the British dyslexia Association, and

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there is more than one BDA involved in this. The British deaf

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Association is as well. My Lords, if we don't do this, a series of themes

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come out. The big thing is that you have got the law, so implement it.

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Drive it forward. I, my Lords, and one of the veterans of the DDA. At

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the time, it was before we celebrate it too much, just remember the pain

:29:31.:29:36.

of the birth. Baroness Campbell was outside the building and I was in it

:29:37.:29:41.

at the time. Shall we say, the birth of that bill was a painful and

:29:42.:29:46.

prolonged labour? It was dragged out of a Government that did not want

:29:47.:29:50.

it, largely by the action of its own backbenchers...

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