Lords Repeal Bill Statement House of Lords


Lords Repeal Bill Statement

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My Lords, I will now repeat a statement made by my right

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honourable friend, the Secretary of State for Exiting the European

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Union. With permission Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement about

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the publication of a White Paper on the Great Bill. Yesterday we took

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the historic step of notifying the European Council of the government

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decision to invoke Article 50. The decision to invoke Article 50. The

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United Kingdom is leaving the EU. That notification marks the

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beginning of our two-year negotiation period with the EU. And

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it reflects the result of last year's instruction from the people

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of the United Kingdom. As the Prime Minister said yesterday, it is

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fierce determination to get the right deal for every single person.

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Now the time to come together, to ensure that the UK as a whole is

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prepared for the challenges and opportunities presented by our exit

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from the EU. We have been clear that we want a smooth and orderly exit,

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and the Great Repeal Bill is integral to that approach. It will

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provide clarity, and certainty, for businesses, workers and consumers

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across the UK on the day we leave the EU. It will mean that as we exit

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the EU and seek a new deep and special partnership with the EU, we

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will be doing so from a position where we have the same standards and

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rules. But it will also ensure we deliver on our promise to end the

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supremacy of EU law in the UK as we exit. Our laws will be made in

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London, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast, and interpreted not by

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judges in Luxembourg but by judges across the United Kingdom. Some have

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been concerned that Parliament will not play enough of a role in shaping

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the future of the country once we have left the EU. Today's White

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Paper shows just how wrong that is. This publication makes clear there

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will be a series of bills to debate and vote on. Both before and after

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we leave, as well as many statutory instruments to consider. Let me turn

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to the content of today's White Paper. Mr Speaker, the paper we have

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published sets out the three principal elements of this Great

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Repeal Bill. First, it will repeal the European Communities Act and

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return power to the United Kingdom. Second, the bill will convert EU law

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into UK law wherever practical and appropriate, allowing businesses to

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continue to operate knowing the rules have not changed overnight,

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and providing fairness to individuals whose rights and

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obligations will not be subject to sudden change. And third, the bill

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will create the necessary powers to correct the laws that do not operate

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appropriately once we have left the EU, so that our legal system

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continues to function correctly outside the EU. I will address each

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of these elements internally for coming to the important issue of the

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interaction of the bill with the devolution settlement is. Let me

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begin with the European Communities Act. Repealing the ECA on the day we

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leave the EU enables the return to this parliament of the sovereignty

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we, to some degree, seeded in 1972, and ends the supremacy of EU law in

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this country. It is entirely necessary to deliver on the result

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of the referendum. But repealing the ECA alone is not enough. A simple

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repeal would leave holes in our statute book. EU regulation that

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applied directly in the UK would no longer have any effect, and many of

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the domestic regulations we have made to implement EU regulations

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would fall away. Therefore, to provide maximum possible legal

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certainty, the Great Repeal Bill will convert EU law into domestic

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law on the day we leave the EU. This means, for example, that the

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workers' rights, environmental protection and consumer rights

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enjoyed under EU law in the UK, will continue to be available in UK law

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after we have left the EU. Once EU law has been converted into domestic

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law, Parliament will be able to pass legislation to amend, repeal or

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improve any piece of EU law it chooses, as will the default

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legislatures -- devolved. However, further steps will be needed to

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provide a smooth and orderly exit. This is because a large number of

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laws, both existing domestic laws and those we convert into UK law,

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will not work properly if we leave the EU without taking further

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action. Some laws, for example, grand functions to EU institutions

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with which the UK might no longer have a relationship. To overcome

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this, the Great Repeal Bill will provide a power to correct the

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statute book where necessary, to resolve the problems which will

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occur as a consequence of leaving the EU. This will be done using

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secondary legislation. The flexibility of which will help to

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ensure that we have put in place the necessary corrections before the day

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we leave the EU. I can confirm this power will be time limited. And

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Parliament will need to be satisfied that the procedures in the bill for

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making and approving the secondary legislation are appropriate. Given

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the scale of the changes that will be necessary and the finite amount

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of time available, there is a balance to be struck between the

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importance of scrutiny and correcting the statute book in time.

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As the Constitution committee in the other place recently put it, the

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challenge Parliament will face is in balancing the need for speed and

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thus government of discussion, with the need for proper parliamentary

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control of the content of the UK statute book. Parliament of course

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can and does regularly debate and vote on secondary legislation. We

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are not considering some form of government executive orders, but

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using a legislative process of long standing. I hope today's White Paper

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and this statement can be the start of a discussion between Parliament

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and government about how best to achieve this balance. Similar

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corrections will be needed to the statute books of the three devolved

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administrations. And so we propose the bill will also give ministers in

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a devolved -- the devolved administrations the power to amend

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devolved legislation to correct their law, in line with the way UK

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ministers can correct UK law. Mr Speaker, let me turn to the ECJ EU

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and its caselaw. I can confirm that the Great Repeal Bill will provide

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no future role in the interpretation of our laws and the bill will not

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oblige our courts to consider cases after we have left. However, for as

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long as EU derived law remains on the UK statute book, it is essential

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that there is a common understanding of what that law means. The

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government believes that this is best achieved by providing for

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continuity in how that law is interpreted, before and after exit

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day. To maximise certainty, therefore, the bill will provide

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that any question as to the meaning of EU law that has been converted

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into UK law, will be determined in the UK courts by reference to the CJ

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EU's caselaw as it exists on the day we leave the EU. Any other starting

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point would be to change the law and create unnecessary uncertainty. This

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approach maximises the uncertainty at the point of departure. But our

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intention is not to fossilise the past decisions forever. As such, we

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propose the bill will provide that historic caselaw be given the same

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status as our courts, as decisions of our own Supreme Court.

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The Supreme Court does not frequently depart from its own

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decisions but does so from time to time. And we expect them to take a

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sparing view from SJU case law but believe it is has the right to do

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so. Of course, Parliament is free to endure the law and therefore

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overturn case law where it decides to do so.

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MR SPEAKER:, the charter of fundamental rights applies to Member

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States when they act within the scope of EU law. This means that the

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relevance is removed by the withdrawal of the EU, the UK's

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leading role in protecting and advancing human rights will not

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chance. The fact that the charter moves away will not mean that the

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protection of rights in the UK suffers as a result. The charter of

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fundamental rights was not designed to create new rights but to

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catalogue rights recognised in EU law. Where cases have been decided

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by reference to the rights that case law will be used to interpret the

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underlying rights which will be preserved. I would like to turn to

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devolution. The United Kingdom's domestic constitutional arrangements

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evolved since the UK joined the European economic community in 1973.

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The current devolution settlements were agreed after the UK joined and

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reflect that context. Innas where the devolved administrations and

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legislators have competence, agriculture, the environment and

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somas of transport, this competence is exercised within the constraints

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set up by EU law. The existence of common EU frameworks provided a

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common UK framework in manias, safeguarding the functioning of the

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UK internal market. As powers return from the EU, we have the opportunity

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to determine the level best placed to take decisions on these issues,

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ensuring power sits closer to the people of the United Kingdom than

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ever before. It is the expectation of the Government that the outcome

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of this process will be a significant increase in the decision

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making power of each devolved administration but ensure that as we

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leave the EU, no new barriers to living and doing business within our

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own union are created. In somas, this will require common

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UK frameworks. Decisions required about where a common framework is

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needed and if it is, how it may be established. The devolved

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administration acknowledge the importance of common UK frameworks.

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We will work closely with the administrations to deliver an

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approach that works for the whole of the United Kingdom and reflects the

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needs and the individual circumstances of Scotland, Wales and

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Northern Ireland. He let me conclude by stressing the importance of the

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Great Repeal Bill, to help and ensure certainty and stability. To

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ensure a smooth and orderly exit. To stand in good negotiations over

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future relationships with the EU and deliver greater control to this

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Parliament and wherever appropriate, the devolved administrations, this

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is crucial in implementing the referendum in the national

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interests. I hope that all sides work with that and work to achieve

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the aims. I commend this statement to the house.

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I thank the Lord minister for repeating the statement, introducing

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threeas of scrutiny facing this House over the coming 18 months. The

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other elements are the array of primary legislation, anywhere

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between seven and 15 bill, covering agriculture, customs, and

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immigrations and their associated SIs. And also the scrutiny of the

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Government's negotiation with the E U20 07, culminating in a vote in

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this House. Today's foreshadowed bill is in one way the easiest of

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the task as it takes existing EU law to incorporate into domestic law.

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However, we heard from the Secretary of State for International Trade

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arguing that to restore Britain's competitiveness, we must begin by

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deregulating the labour market, whilst the Foreign Secretary wants

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to use the opportunity to axe needless regulations that have

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acreated since Britain joined the EU. How do those comments chime with

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the Prime Minister's introduction to the white paper and the Government's

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long standing promise that the same rules and laws apply on the day

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after exit, as on the day before? So will the noble Lord, the minister,

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confirm that it is the Prime Minister who is the boss and that

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despite the words of the others, there is no intention to repeal

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those mad cap ideas within the repeal bill.

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Despite its aim of simply converting existing rules into UK law, the bill

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will be in the words of our delegated powers and regulatory

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reform committee, holey exceptional pieces of primary legislation with

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implications for the fundamental issue of the balance between the

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executive and Parliament. We are pleased that the Secretary of State

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confirmed, as the minister has done now, that the delegated powers

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introduced by the bill are subject to time limits but a number of

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concerns remain. Mar graph 321, the Government

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believes that current statutory instrument procedures in this House

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are sufficient for the task. -- paragraph 321. We have our doubts.

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So will the noble Lord the minister, give serious consideration to the

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following recommendations. That an ex-planetory memo is published

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alongside each statutory instrument. That there is early consultation

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with outside stake holders. The provision of a comprehensive

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delegation powers memoranda for Parliament when the bill appears,

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the provision of draft regulations so that scrutiny can commence before

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the bill is enacted inview of the scale and the complexity of the

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secondary legislation and give than the degree gaitory legislation is

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unamendable, consideration of a strength and a scrutiny procedure to

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ensure that there is some control over significant statetory

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intriplets, including some triage of the various proposals. My lords,

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everyone in the chamber know that our committees on this do the most

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excellent of work it but it clear that an extra form of capacity is

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needed to scrutinise the vast array of statutory instruments to come. My

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Lords, many EU regulations are monitored and enforced by the

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commissioner, the court of justice or another EU body. The question is

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how the Government ensures that the new regulations, once domesticated

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into UK law, will be monitored and enforced? There is really little

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point in entrenching EU rights and pro texts if the Government does not

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also ensure that they are enforceable. As converting EU Accie

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into domestic law will have significant implications for the

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devolution settlements as referred to, which were all premised on our

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continued membership of the EU, can the noble Lord the minister, tell

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the House about their plans for dealing with repatriation innas of

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devolved competence, including London? In particular, can the noble

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Lord the minister, provide assurance that the consultation will improve?

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Just yesterday, the First Minister in Wales confirmed he had not seen

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the Article 50 letter and not involved, invited to contribute to

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its drafting and described that as unacceptable, an accumulation of a

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deeply frustrating process in which the devolved administrations had

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been persistently treated with a lack of respect and today again he

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had to say: We are disappointed we were not given the opportunity to

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contribute to its publication, the white paper, despite assurances that

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we would be. Is this the level of co-operation that the Government

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thinks is satisfactory? My Lords, although lacking in certain

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respects, today's white paper provides some clarity. Labour has

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insisted that our withdrawal from the EU must not lead to the

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reduction of workplace rights, environment or consumer protections.

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These must be retained with no qualifications, limitations or

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sunset clause and the white paper seems, although I have not had time

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to read all details but it does seem to accept this entirely and sets out

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welcome examples but given the comments by the Foreign Secretary

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and the interest trade secretaries that I mentioned and indeed the

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former chairman of the Conservative Party, there are dangers ahead. If

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we are to do our job properly, we will need the resources and the

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structures to deal with the avalanche of secondary legislation

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and a way of ensuring that the delegation powers are limited, used

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only when vital and not misused. And that the House stands ready to do

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what is needed but we will need more assurance before we can be sure that

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the bill is fit for purpose. The Government's stressing the

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importance of sovereignty. For us this means parliamentary

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sovereignty, and not an unacceptable power grab by Government. We'll be

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watching you. I also thank the noble Lord, the

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minister, for the repeat of the statement. My Lords if the price of

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pointing out when the Government's Brexit emperor lacks clothes is to

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be labelled a well known pessimist it is a price I will pay. The most

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obvious flash of nakedness is in the title of the great, it is not great

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and repeals nothing it is the sneaky copy piece bill. Brexit does not

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mean Brexit but a deep and a special relationship, we learned, so of

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course, we are still complying are lots of EU law. Which is welcome in

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avoiding the destructive off the cliff no deal breaksity that the

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Prime Minister threatened weeks ago and I noted reap Peted in the white

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pipe, although I thought it had been abandoned. But the deeper our

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relationship with the EU is, the more flimsiness of the emperor's red

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line garments become apparent it seems that the Government hopes

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cinically, that as longs as it pulls from the EU institutions, the fact

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that the UK will continue to comply with EU law can be sold as freedom

:20:46.:20:51.

and regained control. But instead of taking back control, meaning as

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Leave voters were Steveed into thinking as increased in

:20:56.:20:58.

parliamentary sovereignty, Brexit does represent a shameless power

:20:59.:21:05.

grab by the executive on a scale to make Henry te 8th blush. And doubts

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on the Civil Service to cope. The statement says that the bill will

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"create the necessary powers to correct the laws that don't operate

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appropriately once we have left the EU" paragraph 121 promises no major

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changes to policy, just enough to ensure that the law continues to

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function properly. We will have to be watchful that wiggle room appears

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to allow. And the alleged flex crypt and speed, so although Government

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executive orders are apparently ruled out, true reassurance is in

:21:48.:21:52.

short supply. I associate myself with the remarks made about the

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resources in this House. Liberal Democrats will be insisting on full

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parliamentary scrutiny, transparency, and due process,

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including the involvement of the devolved administrations. Now the

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statement and the white paper pledge to end the supremacy of EU law in

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the United Kingdom, such that the laws we obey will not be interpreted

:22:17.:22:23.

by the judges in Luxembourg, and this bears reputation: The Article

:22:24.:22:29.

50 letter admits that UK trading in the EUU will have to abide by the EU

:22:30.:22:36.

rule, while the UK takes no part in the institutions that shape the

:22:37.:22:39.

laws, in other words, we are a rule taker, not a rule maker, hence the

:22:40.:22:50.

claim of no future role for the SCU in the interpretation of Australia

:22:51.:22:57.

laws is simply untrue. The SYEU will continue to play a large part in our

:22:58.:23:02.

lives, true also of treaty rights. A few lines down from the ringing

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assertion of ending the role of EU learn we learn that UK courts will

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determine the converted law by reference to the case law. The

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application of the charter of fundamental rights is therefore

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shown up to be more apparent than real as the Luxembourg court has

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taken account of it in many judgments and this is admitted a few

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paragraphs later. So the assertion in paragraph 223 in the white paper,

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that the withdrawal of the EU, is also incorrect. Can the minister

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explain how our courts will keep up with not just historic but new EU

:23:48.:23:55.

law and CJEU case law and the obscure references to common

:23:56.:24:00.

frameworks but this must surely mean EU communes once?

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How will the government deal with pressure from right-wing

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conservatives, backed recently by the daily Telegraph, to promise a

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bonfire of EU red tape to put Britain on a radically different

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course? Is that what correction actually means? If so, when will the

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government Talbot -- tell the British people that they voted to

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diminish their rights, like food labelling or roaming charges.

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Liberal Democrats will not support anything which we human rights,

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environmental, workplace and consumer protection, which threatens

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freedoms to study and work in the -- EU, research funding or security

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cooperation. This reinforces the need that my party demands for the

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British people to have the final say on the Brexit deal. And for that say

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to be before the repeal bill is enacted.

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My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness and others for their contributions.

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I would particularly like to thank noble Baroness Hayter for her

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overarching view that we have provided at least some clarity as

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regards the approach we are taking. I think we're providing a

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considerable amount of clarity. To clarify the first point the noble

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Baroness asked me, is the Prime Minister the boss? Yes, the Prime

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Minister is the boss. And I better make that very clear. On a more

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serious point, as regards the point that noble Baroness Hayter and noble

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Baroness Ludford made about changes that might be made in years hence to

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EU derived law when it is in UK law, that is for some time off because

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for the simple reason we have to get this process through and done within

:25:53.:25:58.

the time we have. Any changes to EU derived law, if they were to be

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made, if they were to be made, or I should say, proposed, would

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obviously need to be passed by this Parliament. That is not for now. As

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this paper makes very clear, the task before us is to provide a

:26:13.:26:18.

smooth and orderly exit on day one. And in so doing, just to pick up on

:26:19.:26:24.

the point, I understand people's concerns about people's writes, we

:26:25.:26:27.

are making it clear we are not intended to undermine or erode

:26:28.:26:32.

people's writes as they are derived from the EU. Furthermore, as the

:26:33.:26:37.

noble Baroness thinks this is a power grab, this is not a power

:26:38.:26:41.

grab. We make it very clear about the balance we are striving to

:26:42.:26:45.

achieve between the knees to get appropriate scrutiny from Parliament

:26:46.:26:49.

dwelt at -- whilst at the same time having a fully functioning statute

:26:50.:26:53.

book on the day we leave the EU. We set out a number of constraints. As

:26:54.:27:00.

regards the constraints that might be taken. As I said in the

:27:01.:27:04.

statement, we are committed to a time limit. The noble Baroness made

:27:05.:27:08.

some interesting suggestions as regards other constraints that are

:27:09.:27:13.

not in the White Paper as such. I would draw the Houses attention to

:27:14.:27:18.

paragraph -- to the paragraph about the scope of the power considered,

:27:19.:27:24.

we will consider the constraints placed upon the power to assess

:27:25.:27:29.

whether similar constraints may be suitable for the new power. For

:27:30.:27:33.

example, preventing the power from being used to make retrospective

:27:34.:27:40.

position or impose taxation. There are a number of other suggestions.

:27:41.:27:45.

She echoed the thoughts made in the wonderful report by this Houses --'s

:27:46.:27:54.

constitutional committee. Consultation on draft. That will be

:27:55.:28:00.

very important as we move to and landing those parts which relate to

:28:01.:28:07.

the economy. That is something worth mulling over. Draft regulations.

:28:08.:28:13.

Again... Strength and scrutiny procedure. On triage, these are all

:28:14.:28:20.

faults. My door is open to have discussions on with any noble lord

:28:21.:28:23.

who wishes to have such a discussion. I stress the point made

:28:24.:28:29.

in the White Paper where it says this white Paper is the beginning of

:28:30.:28:33.

a discussion between government and parliament as to the most pragmatic

:28:34.:28:35.

and effective approach to take in this area. The noble Baroness makes

:28:36.:28:43.

a very good point about the monitoring of EU regulations once

:28:44.:28:48.

they are converted into EU law, where those EU regulations are today

:28:49.:28:53.

enforced by EU regulators. This is a very good point. We're having

:28:54.:28:56.

extensive discussions as to how this will work with UK regulators. And

:28:57.:29:03.

furthermore, there needs to be consultation and discussion about

:29:04.:29:05.

that process and how we bring them over. Baroness Ludford, moving on to

:29:06.:29:13.

the interpretation of caselaw. I would simply say that we need to

:29:14.:29:19.

have the certainty of the law which underpins a number of significant,

:29:20.:29:24.

not simply legal cases, but also policy cases. I'm thinking in

:29:25.:29:28.

particular of our VAT policy, which a large number of European court

:29:29.:29:35.

shapes that. We are taking the approach we are taking as a result.

:29:36.:29:39.

As regards consultation with the devolved assemblies and the point of

:29:40.:29:45.

the noble Baroness made about that, yes indeed we will need to consult.

:29:46.:29:51.

We're giving ministers their power to amend their legislation to ensure

:29:52.:29:54.

it will be fit for purpose on day one. We are having regular meetings.

:29:55.:29:58.

And we will continue to have regular meetings on that. Let me end by

:29:59.:30:04.

saying that I am very, very keen to continue to consult with all members

:30:05.:30:07.

of this House about the measures contained in the White Paper, as it

:30:08.:30:10.

is absolutely critical we get this right.

:30:11.:30:20.

I realise, my Lords, that this is mainly a convergent exercise, very

:30:21.:30:26.

sensible and I greatly welcomed. -- conversion. When it comes to

:30:27.:30:34.

approving secondary legislation, can we assume there is going to be some

:30:35.:30:38.

degree of filtration and even removal there? Since many of these

:30:39.:30:43.

vast number of regulations are not only wanted, and that may be a

:30:44.:30:50.

matter for debate, but actually obsolete, and come from a predigital

:30:51.:30:55.

age and an era of centralisation that is long past. It would really

:30:56.:31:00.

be a waste of time and effort merely to place them there when they are

:31:01.:31:08.

redundant. I think my noble friend is making a good point about the

:31:09.:31:15.

potential for triage. Flagging to Parliament whether an SIA is of a

:31:16.:31:22.

technical nature, of a more substantial policy nature, or a

:31:23.:31:27.

policy issue. Therefore the level of scrutiny that is required. All I

:31:28.:31:30.

would say at this stage is I am keen we get the balance right between

:31:31.:31:35.

bringing your Lordships and the other place with us as we make these

:31:36.:31:38.

changes and get the scrutiny right with the level of speed we need to

:31:39.:31:41.

proceed with. I'm very interested in the point my noble friend makes, and

:31:42.:31:50.

we will certainly look at that. Would he clarify the welcome

:31:51.:31:53.

reference in the statement to a significant increase in the

:31:54.:31:57.

decision-making power of each devolved administration? In respect

:31:58.:32:02.

of the social chapter, for example, will Wales be able to have that

:32:03.:32:06.

fully enforceable, even if it were to be amended at a UK level? And

:32:07.:32:13.

would he also confirmed that any powers coming from Brussels to the

:32:14.:32:16.

UK applying in devolved areas, will be able to be retained for example

:32:17.:32:24.

at a Wales level rather than grabbed back by London? And will the

:32:25.:32:30.

European Convention on Human Rights human rights still be applying in

:32:31.:32:35.

the devolved areas? There is absolutely no plans for the

:32:36.:32:38.

government to withdraw from the EC HR. On the first point, there is

:32:39.:32:45.

again no intention to use this process in any shape or form to

:32:46.:32:48.

erode the decision-making powers that currently exist for the

:32:49.:32:53.

devolved administrations. As regards how power come back, that is clearly

:32:54.:32:57.

a matter that we need to consult with very carefully to make sure it

:32:58.:33:01.

works in all our interests. My Lords, my Lords, my Lords... I do

:33:02.:33:11.

welcome the fact that the government has got rid of the Orwellian title,

:33:12.:33:17.

the Great Repeal Bill, on the title page, although they did seem to

:33:18.:33:22.

revert when they got inside. But would not have been to adopt the

:33:23.:33:31.

byline of the Prince of Lampedusa's famous remark, when he gave the

:33:32.:33:35.

definition of revolution, which was, everything must change so that

:33:36.:33:40.

everything must stay the same? I think that's probably more the

:33:41.:33:43.

title. I do think the daily Telegraph files -- Daily Telegraph's

:33:44.:33:49.

regular tree bonfire may be short of dry kindling. -- regulatory.

:33:50.:33:59.

Paragraphs 116 recognise that the provisions of this bill will be

:34:00.:34:05.

operated in parallel with the Article 50 negotiations. But there

:34:06.:34:11.

is no Parliamentary process for approving the changes that may have

:34:12.:34:18.

been agreed in a deal with the European Union, other than the

:34:19.:34:23.

binary choice when that deal is brought to Parliament. So is the

:34:24.:34:26.

government really asking us to give it a blank check for all those

:34:27.:34:33.

changes it negotiates, and to deny Parliament the scrutiny of the

:34:34.:34:41.

details of them? And secondly, paragraph 120 of the White Paper

:34:42.:34:44.

makes it even clearer than it was before, that the government is

:34:45.:34:51.

anticipating no process of Parliamentary approval in the

:34:52.:34:54.

context of the UK exiting without a deal. Surely this like Una has shown

:34:55.:35:05.

even more clearly than it has before, that we have to have a

:35:06.:35:09.

provision for approving or disapproving a decision to exit

:35:10.:35:14.

without a deal? For fear of frustrating him, I'm not

:35:15.:35:18.

going to repeat all the arguments as regards the second point the noble

:35:19.:35:23.

Lord makes. All I would simply say as regards all these points is that

:35:24.:35:27.

there will be ample opportunity, as I've said many times at this

:35:28.:35:31.

dispatch box, for the Lordships and the other place to be scrutinising

:35:32.:35:35.

how the negotiations are proceeding. And as we make it clear in here,

:35:36.:35:40.

there will be a vote in both houses on the agreement at the end of the

:35:41.:35:45.

process. And also, were there to be measures coming out of the

:35:46.:35:49.

withdrawal treaty that needs to be fermented, again that would be a

:35:50.:35:52.

chance for the parliament to scrutinise those.

:35:53.:36:02.

The paper refers to the constitutional committee. Both

:36:03.:36:05.

houses need a mechanism to do is decide whether enhanced scrutiny is

:36:06.:36:08.

required for some of these intimates. Given that statutory

:36:09.:36:13.

instruments can't be amended and may be wrong in part but not as a whole,

:36:14.:36:16.

and that this House is reluctant to vote them down, surely we need that

:36:17.:36:22.

kind of mechanism? A very valid point. I have read that

:36:23.:36:26.

excellent report. It is a useful contribution to the debate. I'm not

:36:27.:36:31.

going to start committing one way now on the precise point he makes. I

:36:32.:36:35.

have had and I would like to thank those Lordships, I have had

:36:36.:36:41.

conversations with them on this. I'm happy to meet his Lordship in

:36:42.:36:46.

private. I'm not going to make a point now.

:36:47.:36:55.

I would be grateful if the Minister could confirm to me that any

:36:56.:36:59.

delegated powers to be included in the Great Repeal Bill...

:37:00.:37:08.

The foreword to the White Paper stresses the importance of trying to

:37:09.:37:12.

minimise uncertainty during the course of the negotiations. Would my

:37:13.:37:17.

noble friend agree that amongst those most suffering from

:37:18.:37:23.

uncertainty are UK citizens living elsewhere in the European Union, and

:37:24.:37:26.

those from elsewhere in the European Union living in the United Kingdom?

:37:27.:37:32.

Wendy Prime Minister approached this in Brussels she was told she must

:37:33.:37:37.

wait until the negotiations have begun and Article 50 had been

:37:38.:37:41.

implemented. Can my noble friend gave us an assurance that we will

:37:42.:37:46.

now press ahead with resolving that matter at the earliest possible

:37:47.:37:49.

moment? And should we not be absolutely clear we must avoid a

:37:50.:37:54.

situation where nothing is agreed until everything is agreed? Because

:37:55.:38:00.

that would perpetuate the uncertainty among people for two

:38:01.:38:07.

years and perhaps more. My noble friend makes a very good point. As

:38:08.:38:11.

regards the substance of it, I would draw attention to the second point

:38:12.:38:14.

of the principles for discussion set out in the letter that my right

:38:15.:38:20.

honourable friend, the Prime Minister, sent yesterday, which

:38:21.:38:23.

repeated our absolute aim to strike an early agreement about the rights

:38:24.:38:27.

of both EU citizens in this country and UK citizens across Europe. It is

:38:28.:38:30.

absolutely our intention to do so. It is good news we can start that

:38:31.:38:35.

process. And we have been very heartened by the fact that in

:38:36.:38:38.

conversations with our European partners, they also share that

:38:39.:38:39.

overriding intent. They will gain strength, and the

:38:40.:38:55.

fact although he will be on his feet for hours on ends with the

:38:56.:38:59.

collectionities of this and other bills, the advantage here is that

:39:00.:39:07.

although the detail is objective, there is the reassurance that this

:39:08.:39:12.

and all arm tearians, making and changing and amending the laws that

:39:13.:39:15.

the people of this country expect this Parliament to perform. That's

:39:16.:39:19.

the duty that in all of my experience as an MP they expect this

:39:20.:39:23.

Parliament to be able to make the decisions on their behalf. So all of

:39:24.:39:30.

us who are keen Parliamentarians and value the priceless authority that

:39:31.:39:35.

we have got in either House, and mainly in the Commons, should bear

:39:36.:39:39.

in mind, surely, that this is a holey desirable piece of

:39:40.:39:43.

legislation. I'm delighted he sees it that way.

:39:44.:39:48.

This is a complex challenge ahead and we are to proceed with simple

:39:49.:39:55.

while being mindful of the complexity and mindful of a view

:39:56.:40:00.

among some of you, that in the process of restoring sovereignty, we

:40:01.:40:04.

don't give the Government excessive powers and we must get the balance

:40:05.:40:11.

right. I am determined to do that. I am sure that the minister has well

:40:12.:40:18.

in mind of problems with amending the step legislation of a

:40:19.:40:26.

subordinate nature of this House. I urge him, based on my experience of

:40:27.:40:31.

dealing with a more modest situation that arose when I was Lord Chief

:40:32.:40:39.

Justice, and the Lord Chancellor's status transformed and we realised

:40:40.:40:43.

that there were over 300 pieces of legislation, not taken into account,

:40:44.:40:49.

can I suggest it is possible to include, whatever you will call the

:40:50.:40:54.

bill, with great or otherwise, a provision to enable a statutory

:40:55.:41:02.

instrument to be amended without affecting its validity. That will be

:41:03.:41:08.

a greater comfort to those in this House with regard to what is

:41:09.:41:16.

proposed. That makes an extremely interesting

:41:17.:41:20.

point. I am sure that there will be other points he will mention to him

:41:21.:41:26.

and I look forward to have discussions about this ahead.

:41:27.:41:30.

. My Lords, I confess, a irresistible

:41:31.:41:36.

urge to return to practice at the bar. This is a legal mind field but

:41:37.:41:43.

May I ask this. When a relevant right of action arises between now

:41:44.:41:48.

and the date of departure is it not the case that any such proceedings

:41:49.:41:59.

that may follow or to be determined by European Union law and

:42:00.:42:06.

justiceable, by the European Union of justice.

:42:07.:42:10.

I am not sure of that point, I am sorry to say. The position as

:42:11.:42:15.

regards case law is what I have set out: Until we leave the European

:42:16.:42:23.

Union, obviously we are bound by the ECJ. But I am happy to discuss this.

:42:24.:42:31.

As chairman of the delegation of powers committee, I am pleased that

:42:32.:42:35.

the Government is taking on board many of the recommendations we have

:42:36.:42:40.

made in tandem with the constitution committee, with which we are working

:42:41.:42:44.

closely. The most important one from our point of view is the sunset

:42:45.:42:49.

clause, the time limiting one which deals with many of the worries that

:42:50.:42:54.

people have about giving the Government extensive powers. Can I

:42:55.:43:00.

take it further, we will have other primary legislation dealing with

:43:01.:43:04.

other matters where we wish to have a different approach and a policy.

:43:05.:43:09.

My guess is that there will be considerable delegated powers there.

:43:10.:43:15.

Could I ask the Government not to take too much for granted there. Our

:43:16.:43:20.

committee will be having bady eyes on it all.

:43:21.:43:25.

I am delighted that the bady eye of my noble friend will continue to

:43:26.:43:30.

purr say all that comes from Government and so it should. I would

:43:31.:43:34.

like to thank her and the words of their committee for their work. We

:43:35.:43:39.

will confirm a sunset clause in this piece of legislation. My noble

:43:40.:43:43.

friend is right about the other pieces of legislation to follow.

:43:44.:43:48.

Indeed, I will not say here and now as to the extent of the delegated

:43:49.:43:52.

powers that they might have but obviously we are mindful of the

:43:53.:43:57.

needs to ensure that the powers are proportionate also.

:43:58.:44:06.

The policy to leave the single market, a policy with devastating

:44:07.:44:13.

effects to the British economy. And I hope that he has read the report

:44:14.:44:20.

on engineering manufactures' federation on the subject. But the

:44:21.:44:25.

Government defender policy, the reason for it, is that any other

:44:26.:44:30.

policy would be incompatible with the desire to restrict EU

:44:31.:44:37.

immigration but now that there will be no meaningful reduction for EU

:44:38.:44:41.

immigration, would it be elementary to examine the policy. The cost of

:44:42.:44:46.

leaving the single market is the same but the gain or return that the

:44:47.:44:51.

Government were hoping for from this policy is less than anticipated and

:44:52.:44:58.

possibly nonexistent. So is it not common sense to review the policy.

:44:59.:45:02.

Apart from the difficulty it would make for Ireland, to create a new

:45:03.:45:06.

frontier across the island of Ireland which could be avoided if we

:45:07.:45:11.

remain in the single market. I respect the passion that you

:45:12.:45:16.

speak. I have little to expand on the situation, other than than what

:45:17.:45:22.

I have said many times before. We view the need to reflect the single

:45:23.:45:27.

market, after then struction as delivered on the 23rd of June, that

:45:28.:45:32.

we believe we need to take control over our boarders and see it as an

:45:33.:45:37.

instruction received and part of the need to leave the EU. As regards to

:45:38.:45:43.

how, the Secretary of State and the Prime Minister have both said on

:45:44.:45:49.

many occasions we need to do so in a sensible way, mindful and sensitive

:45:50.:45:52.

to the needs of the economy. I have little to add to that.

:45:53.:45:59.

You are well known for the optimism, can you reassure that the House,

:46:00.:46:02.

that the legislation of this vast bill will be completed by the end of

:46:03.:46:07.

the next parliamentary session, starting on the 17th of May, more or

:46:08.:46:13.

less a year only to ensure that the legislation gets through and

:46:14.:46:23.

reassure us that as the worded structure is, that the final vote of

:46:24.:46:28.

the Parliament, the sovereign Parliament, especially the House of

:46:29.:46:30.

Commons, will be the final decision on the matter? Well, my lords, the

:46:31.:46:35.

people have said that they wish to leave the European Union, that is

:46:36.:46:40.

what we are doing. As regards the timetable for the bill, and the

:46:41.:46:45.

noble Lord makes a good point, we have obviously a timetable that is

:46:46.:46:51.

reflecting the processes set out in the Article 50 process itself. We

:46:52.:46:56.

fully intend to see this bill on the statute book as soon as possible so

:46:57.:47:00.

that we can start to use the powers and to ensure that the statute book

:47:01.:47:06.

is fit for purpose on the day that we leave the European Union.

:47:07.:47:09.

. In connection with the challenge set

:47:10.:47:19.

out... If I may say so, I understand that the noble lady does not wish to

:47:20.:47:23.

proceed. In connection with the challenge,

:47:24.:47:30.

set out in the white paper, ensuring parliamentary scrutiny for the

:47:31.:47:34.

legislation translated into the UK law, could I ask if he might

:47:35.:47:43.

consider the precedent set by the tax law Vivite committee some years

:47:44.:47:47.

ago, a Joint Committe from both Houses set up in similar

:47:48.:47:52.

circumstances where the purpose was simply to rep micate laws without

:47:53.:47:56.

changing them. It had the advantage that laws could be published in

:47:57.:48:02.

draft, others could look at them and the Joint Committe of both Houses

:48:03.:48:07.

could scrutinise and ensure as the remit was set that the laws were

:48:08.:48:14.

translated without changing meaning that could be an effective way of

:48:15.:48:19.

dealing with the volume of the legislation that is set.

:48:20.:48:23.

I will look at the suggestion and see what is practical and what works

:48:24.:48:28.

best obviously in consultation with the appropriate committees of the

:48:29.:48:35.

House. My Lords have I been encouraged by

:48:36.:48:40.

the minister's response, on the front bench, about the way his door

:48:41.:48:45.

is open for the recommendations of the constitution committee as have

:48:46.:48:49.

been marshalled around the House, he says and the white paper wants to

:48:50.:48:55.

make it clear between scrutiny and speed but would he assure the House

:48:56.:49:01.

when it comes to finding the balance, the balance must on on

:49:02.:49:05.

scrutiny. And in particular will he look closely at the provision of

:49:06.:49:09.

draft regulations, because one of the problems that has been said in

:49:10.:49:14.

this House, in scrutinising the process in recent years as been our

:49:15.:49:21.

inability to comment on the impact of the regulations as we have had no

:49:22.:49:26.

draft regulation consideration. And so much is done by secondary

:49:27.:49:32.

legislation, on a profound and not a technical nature, we will need the

:49:33.:49:35.

draft rebelling layingses in order to do our job properly.

:49:36.:49:41.

Thank you for that contribution. I take heed of what she is saying. I

:49:42.:49:49.

think it comes back to the points rose by the gentlemen about how we

:49:50.:49:54.

can in some shape or form ensure there is reflection of the of the

:49:55.:49:58.

keg call nature or otherwise of the piece of SI and ensuring it is

:49:59.:50:04.

presented in a timely manner. I hear what the noble Baroness is saying

:50:05.:50:10.

and reflect on that. Lord camble, after hearing, can the

:50:11.:50:15.

minister confirm my reading of the white paper, that obligations occur

:50:16.:50:21.

under pre-exit European law, including obligations by the

:50:22.:50:28.

government of this country, will be justiceable before the exit? EU law

:50:29.:50:33.

will be preserved as it stands on the day of exit and that the UK

:50:34.:50:38.

courts will be observing from then on.

:50:39.:50:58.

Most people think that Government makes law, and majority of

:50:59.:51:02.

legislation does come from ministers. But not all. MPs and

:51:03.:51:10.

peers have the chance to bring in their own ideas through the private

:51:11.:51:15.

members' bills. In the House of Commons there are a couple of ways

:51:16.:51:19.

for this to be done. But the ones that succeed emerge through a ballot

:51:20.:51:22.

held here at the start of every session of Parliament.

:51:23.:51:28.

It's not a very hi-tech system, any MP who wants to bring in a bill puts

:51:29.:51:31.

their name

:51:32.:51:32.

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