Browse content similar to 16/01/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Baroness Meacher. I beg leave to ask the question standing in my name on | :00:23. | :00:35. | |
the order paper. My Lords, the short answer to the question is no. Like | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
previous governments we have always made clear that such legislation is | :00:40. | :00:42. | |
a matter for Parliament, not government. If the other House | :00:43. | :00:50. | |
considered a bill to legalise assisted dying, they rejected it by | :00:51. | :00:57. | |
330 votes to 118. My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. As he | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
has indicated, there has never been a government supported bill on this | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
issue. The Minister will be aware of Noel Conway, a terminally ill, | :01:06. | :01:12. | |
mentally incapacitated person who is taking his case to the High Court | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
and the Supreme Court. The current law denies him his fundamental human | :01:19. | :01:20. | |
right when his suffering becomes unbearable. Does the Minister agree | :01:21. | :01:30. | |
that the 82% of the population, and it is 6% of disabled people who | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
support Mr Conway and want a change in the law, so that when their turn | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
comes to face their own death, they can live the last months in peace, | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
safe in the knowledge that if they're suffering does become | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
unbearable, they can have professional help to end it? Will | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
the Minister seek the of his colleagues for an ethical bill along | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
these lines in future? My Lords, it remains the Government's view that | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
any change to the law in this area is an issue of individual conscience | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
and a matter for Parliament to decide, rather than one for | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
government policy. I am aware of the gaze of Noel Conway, as it is now in | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
court, it would not be appropriate from me to comment on the | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
circumstances of that case. -- the case. As my noble friend has said, | :02:17. | :02:28. | |
it has been rejected. Should it ever be considered again, I think it is | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
important that the medical profession be excluded from this. | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
The majority of doctors do not wish to be associated with taking life. | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
Their responsibility is to save life. While it is possible that | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
there are those who might volunteer to undertake such a task, it is | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
important that they should not be legislated for the majority of | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
doctors are then required to undertake this, should that be the | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
case. I note what the noble Lord has said, and of course I understand the | :03:03. | :03:10. | |
reasoning behind his observations. I can only reiterate that this | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
Government does not intend at this time to legislate in respect of this | :03:14. | :03:20. | |
matter. The Government may be aware that I had to watch both my wife, my | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
late wife and my father had died a lingering death, and can I suggest | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
that the Government need to accept responsibility for that matter, do | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
not doubt it and make a decision to give people the opportunity to make | :03:34. | :03:36. | |
this important decision about how they die? Again, I can understand | :03:37. | :03:44. | |
the noble Lord's interest and concern in respect of this matter, | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
but I would observe that Parliament has twice addressed this issue in | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
the recent past and has determined not to relax the provisions of | :03:53. | :04:02. | |
section two of the suicide act. My Lords... Is the Minister aware that | :04:03. | :04:11. | |
the campaign to legalise Assisted Suicide Bill assisted dying is not | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
supported by one single organisation for people with progressive | :04:17. | :04:24. | |
conditions, including motor neurone disease and the MS trust? The very | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
people who would be the main beneficiaries of assisted dying. And | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
the growing numbers of disabled people and their organisations are | :04:36. | :04:38. | |
campaigning against such a bill because they feel it is desperately | :04:39. | :04:48. | |
unsafe. I entirely understand the observations of the noble lady in | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
this context and indeed, the whole question of risk associated with | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
such legislation was a point addressed by the Supreme Court when | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
they appoint in 2014 in the cases of Nicholson and land when both the | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
President of the Supreme Court and also the noble Lord observed that | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
the data on risk was plainly short of establishing that there was no | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
risk as such -- of such legislation. It was observed that there were | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
further societies engaged in this area who clearly had reservations | :05:25. | :05:26. | |
about the development of any legislation on this matter. | :05:27. | :05:35. | |
The Minister will be aware that the CPS has looked at this policy in the | :05:36. | :05:42. | |
cases of assisted suicide in very 2010 and October 20 13. It is well | :05:43. | :05:49. | |
understood the reluctance to take this critical legislation. May I ask | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
the Minister in consultation with his colleagues and the CPS, would | :05:53. | :05:59. | |
they consider what requirements are necessary in relation to the CPS | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
policy on assisted dying? My Lords, the matter of CPS policy must be | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
left to the CPS to determine independently on Parliament, it is | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
not for the government to dictate what that policy should be. It is | :06:14. | :06:20. | |
regularly reviewed and I can say that, for example, in the period | :06:21. | :06:28. | |
from 2009 to 2016, the very large majority of cases referred to the | :06:29. | :06:35. | |
CPS were not proceeded with any context of prosecution. My Lords, | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
with the Minister agree that we have to be very wary of these surveys | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
that support the subject in hand? For instance, there was one survey | :06:45. | :06:55. | |
which stated that 96% of the British people wished a pain free death? | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
Does that leave us wondering what the 4% wanted? | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
LAUGHTER . | :07:05. | :07:11. | |
Well, it may be, my Lords, that the other 4% were not referring to | :07:12. | :07:13. | |
themselves. LAUGHTER | :07:14. | :07:20. | |
. But nevertheless, it is, of course, | :07:21. | :07:28. | |
important... It is of course important that any such service | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
should be carried out rigorously and by reference to did find terms | :07:34. | :07:35. | |
otherwise the results can be misleading. -- to be find terms. If | :07:36. | :07:42. | |
the government concerns that an overboard health service with a | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
large number of old people, there is considerable risk about the | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
attitudes of health giving staff within the NHS? I do not believe, my | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
Lords, that any challenges faced by our health staff in hospitals well | :07:56. | :08:02. | |
alter their view as to the issues of life and death, I do not believe | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
that for one moment. My Lords, the supreme court case that the noble | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
minister quoted a moment ago, 2014, amongst other things said that it | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
was strongly implied that the current law is incompatible with | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
human rights legislation and hinted very strongly that Parliament should | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
resolve this issue, otherwise the courts themselves will do so. If | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
there is an incompatibility between a blanket ban on assisted dying and | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
human rights legislation, should it not be resolved in Parliament, | :08:36. | :08:42. | |
rather than by judges? My Lords, in the case of Nicholson, the Supreme | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
Court determined by majority of 72 that there should be no of | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
incompatibility with the Convention on human rights. It did, of course, | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
observe that it should be a matter looked at by Parliament and sends | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
that judgment it has been looked at by Parliament on two distinct and | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
separate locations, Parliament has expressed its views on this matter. | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the question standing in my name on the | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
order paper. My Lords, the government supports art and culture | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
for Arts Council England who are currently working with Walsall | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
Council and local cultural organisations on the new Art | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
gallery's future, helping culture to continue to flourish in Walsall. The | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
Arts Council met the local council in December and await the Gallery's | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
application to the national portfolio. The Arts Council has an | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
principle agreed up to ?12,000 match funding to explore potential new | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
fundraising and philanthropy opportunities in governance and | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
management models. My Lords, when is the government going to allow | :09:52. | :09:54. | |
councils enough money to do their job properly? Since the threat of | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
closure of our regional museums, it is the direct result of continued | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
cuts to government funding. With the Minister agree that if the new Art | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
Gallery in Walsall, a museum of international stature, was the | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
cause, it would be a terrible waste of a significant public investment, | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
not the story begins which in these times needs as much support as | :10:16. | :10:23. | |
possible? Well, of course, I agree it would be a terrible waste of the | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
considerable amount of public money that Arts Council England have put | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
into the new Art Gallery. As far as the... And that is why they are | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
working very hard to prevent exactly that to occur. What we would like to | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
do is to find new methods of joint partnership arrangements, not only | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
by the Arts Council, but that other local organisations to enable Art | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
galleries like the new Art Gallery to continue. Lords, given that the | :10:51. | :10:59. | |
new Art Gallery in Walsall was absolutely fundamental to the | :11:00. | :11:06. | |
regeneration of Walsall town centre, that it houses world-renowned | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
collections, that it was a good example of collaboration between the | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
local authority, the Art Gallery, the government and not forgetting | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
the European Union who put substantial money into it, and that | :11:18. | :11:25. | |
that collection there in that new Art Gallery, it would be an act of | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
cultural vandalism if it were not allowed to be encouraged and | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
survived? I completely agree that it is a very good thing that local art | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
organisations are absolutely key to the regeneration and ongoing | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
prosperity of the local organisation and just to put it into perspective, | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
the amount of money we are talking about in Walsall is a reduction in | :11:50. | :11:56. | |
funding, this is the proposal of ?163,000 a year in the next year, | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
Arts Council England are contributing five times as much as | :12:01. | :12:07. | |
that, over ?800,000. My Lords, can I add my plea to the other speaker, | :12:08. | :12:15. | |
and the thousands of people in the Walsall area in the West Midlands, | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
who, like me, have been inspired and delighted by this literally | :12:22. | :12:23. | |
state-of-the-art new Art Gallery, which is only 15 years old? I would | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
suggest this is not necessarily the moment to cast blame upon the local | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
council, who, in turn, are blaming the government cuts or central | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
government who are squeezing council budgets. But the people of Walsall | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
have so very little in the way of cultural facilities to inspire them. | :12:43. | :12:48. | |
So, could I ask the noble Lord, the minister, to please use his | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
creativity to help us to find a solution? They are working with the | :12:53. | :13:01. | |
Arts Council England to address these problems and get some kind of | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
partnership with other organisations but there are other examples of | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
local councils that are suffering cuts, as all local councils have | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
done. For example, Stoke on Trent, a place where several noble lords may | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
soon be visiting, the potteries Museum and Art Gallery was awarded | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
?300,000 to support local arts and cultural organisations led by Stoke | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
on Trent City Council to team up with councils, including cat | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
gathered at Stoke and the potteries' Art Gallery, that is an example of | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
where joint working together can make a difference. The birthplace of | :13:38. | :13:48. | |
Jerome Valcke, a very special man, was Walsall. Perhaps the government | :13:49. | :13:57. | |
can do better than the men in a boat than just looking at limited | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
paintings and collections. I have already said that the government is | :14:03. | :14:05. | |
putting in a considerable amount of money, and the last five years it | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
has spelt -- spent ?12 million in the area of Walsall. Could I ask my | :14:12. | :14:19. | |
noble friend to reflect that all over the country local authorities | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
are under great pressure and can something be done fairly | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
expeditiously to try and ensure that other galleries that are currently | :14:31. | :14:36. | |
under threat do not go under? Because if we deprive people of the | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
spiritual sustenance that galleries and museums bring, we are | :14:43. | :14:49. | |
impoverishing them. Well, I completely agree with my noble | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
friend and that is why this white paper was so keen in highlighting | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
the importance to local communities of the arts and the heritage sector. | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
But it is correct that when difficult decisions should be made, | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
they should be made by local people, not centrally by ministers. Could | :15:12. | :15:17. | |
the noble Lord, the minister, confirmed that if there is a problem | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
sufficient to cause the closure of this wonderful gallery that the Arts | :15:22. | :15:24. | |
Council will not be obliged to drop its matching funding and the | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
civilians poured in, that they will not claw back some of the covered | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
grant towards the building that it got recently? Well, the Arts Council | :15:34. | :15:41. | |
funding as a partnership and effort in the unlikely event, I hope that | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
is certainly the case, the closing, then obviously that it would be a | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
problem in giving that money to an art gallery which was not open. I do | :15:50. | :15:55. | |
not want to think about that, I think there is a very good incentive | :15:56. | :16:03. | |
with local partners, to keep this very good Art Gallery going, which | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
has some amazing and world-class art in it, and that should be | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
encouraged. My Lords, I beg leave to ask the question standing in my name | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
on the order paper. My Lords, while there are no current proposals to | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
increase the maximum penalties for animal welfare offences, the | :16:24. | :16:25. | |
government was busy court should the range of penalties available. We | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
will continue to keep the maximum penalties for animal welfare | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
offences under review. I thank the noble lord for that reply. But the | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
maximum sentence available for extreme and premeditated cruelty is | :16:40. | :16:45. | |
six months, we lag behind the rest of mainland Europe and Northern | :16:46. | :16:48. | |
Ireland has a maximum sentence of five years. Given the committee has | :16:49. | :16:56. | |
represented and promoted a sentence of five years, is it not time that | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
the sentence match the crime? I have considerable sympathy at some of | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
these examples of animal cruelty cases which are beyond belief, | :17:06. | :17:12. | |
frankly, and I am very pleased that the independence sentencing council | :17:13. | :17:14. | |
is ensuring that the most serious cases of animal cruelty could | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
receive longer sentences within the maximum six months imprisonment. The | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
council is currently considering the consultation responses and will | :17:23. | :17:25. | |
draft the definitive guideline with a dual publication later this year. | :17:26. | :17:32. | |
My Lords, whilst it is important we increase sanctions for animal | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
welfare offences, sanctions are nothing without enforcement. My | :17:37. | :17:39. | |
Lords, at the minute there is no statutory requirement for the local | :17:40. | :17:46. | |
authorities or the police to enforce animal welfare legislation. Could I | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
asked the noble lord, the minister, has the government any plans to | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
introduce such a statutory requirement? My Lords, there are no | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
current plans, but what I would like to see is that imprisonment is not | :18:00. | :18:02. | |
the only penalty and I think this is very important, they increased to an | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
unlimited fine committee service order, and order disqualifying | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
people from ownership of dogs and animals for life, so there are a | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
range of penalties, which I think are also very important if we are to | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
address this matter. Does the government intends to issue updated | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
guidance on the Animal Welfare Act to bear down more decisively on the | :18:27. | :18:35. | |
appalling practice of polly farming? -- poppy farming what my noble | :18:36. | :18:45. | |
friend has said about Care Not Killing farming is noted. The Animal | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
Welfare Act as one of the most advanced pieces of legislation in | :18:50. | :18:52. | |
the world, it was reviewed in 2010 and 2011 and I would, as my | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
honourable friend said any other place, consider and review anything | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
that does not address the situation. -- puppy farming. Last year I joined | :19:03. | :19:09. | |
a group of cross-party MPs which called for eight Baron on the ivory | :19:10. | :19:18. | |
sales to help stop the killing of elephants. There was a decline in | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
the numbers of 30% of elephant numbers over seven years. The | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
government has taken steps to ban new imports of ivory, it is clear | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
that only a total ban can prevent that cruel trade from continuing. | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
Will the noble lord, the minister, agreed to take back our plea for a | :19:36. | :19:41. | |
total ban on ivory imports to prevent elephants becoming an | :19:42. | :19:48. | |
endangered species, which I know would be of great regret. My Lords, | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
whether elephants, rhinos or any endangered animals, it is our | :19:53. | :19:55. | |
responsibility, power generation, to ensure they continue to have their | :19:56. | :19:58. | |
place in the natural world. Of course, this country has been one of | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
the leaders on the ivory matter and in fact, what we have said is that | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
there should be a ban on the sale of ivory up to 70 years, 1947, when | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
they were deemed to the antiques and it is very important that as part of | :20:12. | :20:18. | |
our arrangement. You have raised the issue of endangered species. Is he | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
concerned that talk about the level of sentencing in cases where people | :20:24. | :20:32. | |
are caught, prosecuted and killing endangered birds and have the | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
government considered switching the responsibility from possibly the | :20:36. | :20:37. | |
gamekeeper to the landowner? All these matters are subject | :20:38. | :20:46. | |
already to the law and there has not been a consideration about moving | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
any liability other than where it is now, which is that we think we have | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
a robust law in place. If there were any issues that needed to be | :20:57. | :21:05. | |
reviewed, we would do so. My Lords, has been any reputable body which | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
has said it is against the increase in the penalties, and if so, on what | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
grounds? My Lords, I think it would be fair to say that most animal | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
welfare organisations would like an increased but I think when I | :21:19. | :21:21. | |
reflected on this, Northern Ireland has been mentioned, in fact, what | :21:22. | :21:30. | |
the 66 infections between 2012 and 2016, only one offender received a | :21:31. | :21:33. | |
prison sentence of over six months, which was suspended. -- 66 | :21:34. | :21:40. | |
convictions. An average custodial sentence of 3.3 months. We are | :21:41. | :21:43. | |
looking to see whether there are ways in which managed rates can have | :21:44. | :21:50. | |
enhanced guidelines. -- magistrates. Is it not true that many of those | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
who have been guilty of torturing or killing human beings have done | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
exactly the same to animals and that there is a linkage? I think cruelty, | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
were the our fellow human beings or cruelty to animals, is equally | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
reprehensible and I think there have been connections, which is why I | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
think that some of the other remedies other than imprisonment | :22:14. | :22:16. | |
have been very important, including in the community orders, things like | :22:17. | :22:25. | |
programmes to change behaviour, exclusion, curfew, drug treatment, | :22:26. | :22:27. | |
mental health treatment. There are a number of ways in which we can help. | :22:28. | :22:35. | |
Further to the question of my noble friend, I was involved in a case of | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
animal cruelty recently and was told that while Trading Standards have | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
the power to prosecute, they do not have the funds. I understand this | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
happens particularly with farm animals. The farmers are advised | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
rather than prosecuted. Or I can say is the animal welfare act 2006 is | :22:53. | :22:58. | |
clear in that anyone who has any concerns about animal cruelty cases | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
should report it to the local authority or the police. Would my | :23:03. | :23:09. | |
noble friend agree that where a list is drafted to put species such as | :23:10. | :23:17. | |
bats and newts onto the predicted basis, they should be kept under | :23:18. | :23:19. | |
review at least every seven years? One was such a review last | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
undertaken by Parliament? I will have to look into the precise | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
question but obviously I think it is good practice that all laws should | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
be kept under review. On the heart of the noble Lord Lord Dykes and | :23:35. | :23:37. | |
that his request, I beg leave to ask the question standing under his name | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
on the order paper. We do not need to be part of the EU Single Market. | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
To have strong petition for workers's arise. The Government will | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
not roll back the rights of workers in the workplace. It will be brought | :23:53. | :24:01. | |
into UK law. My Lords and on behalf of myself and the noble Lord Lord | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
Dykes, I thank the Minister for that reply. It follows also on from an | :24:06. | :24:08. | |
article by the Prime Minister on January the 8th of the Sunday | :24:09. | :24:15. | |
Telegraph. Would the Minister, indeed I think he has touched on | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
this, go one step further, and reassure the House and indeed the | :24:21. | :24:26. | |
TUC that all the directives contained and that are relevant to | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
be contained in the great repeal Bill? The Prime Minister has said | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
that under this Government we will see you workers' writes not eroded | :24:37. | :24:39. | |
and not just protected but even enhanced. The commitment of this | :24:40. | :24:45. | |
Government is clear, obviously the subsequent parliaments as we regain | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
sovereignty will be able to make decisions. It is a sad day when the | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
TUC no longer has faith in the Labour Party, the Liberal Party, and | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
this British Parliament to defend the rights of British workers. Is it | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
not the case that British workers enjoy rights far beyond the EU | :25:06. | :25:08. | |
requirements, for example in respect of maternity pay? There are many | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
examples where people who work in the UK have stronger rights than the | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
rates that are guaranteed in the EU, maternity is one case but rights of | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
statutory leave is another example. May I probe harder about how robust | :25:25. | :25:32. | |
these assurances will be? I do think that the Chancellor, having said at | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
the weekend that if there is a hard approach to the negotiations by the | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
EU, then the British Government will have to go down-market and undercut | :25:42. | :25:49. | |
on corporate tax are a new neighbours. -- EU. While not the | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
same thing happen under Labour's standards? For the Government be | :25:54. | :26:00. | |
forced under the logical Brexit into undercutting policies? I think it | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
would be a huge misjudgement or mistake for any British government | :26:07. | :26:08. | |
to think that eroding rights of workers and making work less engaged | :26:09. | :26:18. | |
and less productive in the UK would contribute to us being more | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
productive. We want to have a fully engaged, well-trained workforce. Is | :26:23. | :26:31. | |
-- as the Minister has confirmed, the Prime Minister has agreed that | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
all rights of workers enshrined in EU law will be transferred into UK | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
law, but then it was added, where practical. Could the Minister tell | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
us which rights of workers cannot be practically transferred into UK law? | :26:45. | :26:50. | |
I do not think... I think of any rights that would not fall into the | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
practical area. The Prime Minister went further, she is committed to | :26:56. | :27:03. | |
bringing decent, well paid skilled jobs to Britain, to many parts of | :27:04. | :27:06. | |
the country where they have been depleted over many years. The Single | :27:07. | :27:15. | |
Market, which imposes Brussels of a rig Ocean, and the 90% of our | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
economy which does not go into it. Does the Government know how many | :27:20. | :27:22. | |
jobs that has cost us over the years? I cannot answer that question | :27:23. | :27:30. | |
specifically. Clearly, being part of the Single Market has increased the | :27:31. | :27:36. | |
number of jobs in this country. But the Prime Minister is making a | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
speech tomorrow about global Britain, I think, and we are clear | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
that being part of the global economy that we believe fully in | :27:45. | :27:47. | |
free trade and that our country must be more competitive. This side. This | :27:48. | :27:59. | |
site. Should the trades union leaders not be very careful about | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
calling for the UK to remain in the Single Market when it brings with it | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
free movement of labour and some any of their members voted to leave | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
because they were alarmed by unlimited immigration? He does raise | :28:13. | :28:20. | |
an interesting point. A number of trade union leaders do recognise the | :28:21. | :28:23. | |
issue but unquestionably there are parts of the country where high | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
levels of immigration have undermined wage rates of local | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
people and I think we would agree that one of the benefits of having | :28:31. | :28:33. | |
control over our immigration policy is that we can have a policy which | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
is more directly suited to our own requirements. Bylaws, I find it | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
difficult to believe every word I have just heard. -- my lord. It | :28:44. | :28:49. | |
sounds great and I'm sure the parsnips are waiting to be buttered | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
but this is not a very convincing argument from the party that before | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
the TUC bill. Is this not really about the question of what it is we | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
will be negotiating for? The TUC had no problem in setting out what the | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
negotiating position should be. Why can the government not? I think the | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
Prime Minister in her speech tomorrow will set out the strategic | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
objectives of our negotiations and what we are trying to get out the | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
negotiating is, it would be foolish to speculate about what those are. | :29:22. | :29:30. | |
Given the reality of the global economy, surely the only effective | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
way of protecting employees' writes is through international agreements? | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
And to avoid international agreements is merely to undermine | :29:40. | :29:45. | |
the sovereignty of this country. There are many other aspects apart | :29:46. | :29:48. | |
from international agreements. If you look at the performance of the | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
UK economy, what does stand out above all else is that in many | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
industries, we... Our productivity levels are too low and I think | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
increasing productivity in this country, partly through better | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
training and skills but also more investment in our research base, is | :30:07. | :30:09. | |
the best way in which we can increase our trade overseas. My | :30:10. | :30:16. | |
Lords, would he accept that I get very confused at times, being a | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
simple-minded fellow... All these rights that people have been talking | :30:21. | :30:26. | |
about, is it not the case that for instance in the United States, | :30:27. | :30:29. | |
Volkswagen has pleaded guilty to criminal misconduct about emissions, | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
has paid a fine of nearly ?4 billion, and has offered consumers | :30:34. | :30:40. | |
more than ?12 billion in compensation, and yet in the EU, | :30:41. | :30:43. | |
with all of our rights for consumers and everyone else, so far, the | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
consumer has been offered absolutely nothing. Could he clear of my | :30:48. | :30:54. | |
confusion and tell me why? I fear that clearing up his confusion might | :30:55. | :31:02. | |
take me longer than I have. There is no doubt that consumers do have | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
strong rights in the US and that having a very strong competitive | :31:07. | :31:11. | |
market is probably the best way to ensure that companies like | :31:12. | :31:12. | |
Volkswagen behave properly. | :31:13. | :31:15. |