22/02/2016 Monday in Parliament


22/02/2016

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Hello and welcome to Monday in Parliament, where the debate

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about whether the United Kingdom should be IN or OUT

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David Cameron declares he will be campaigning hard for the UK to stay

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I have no other agenda than what is best for our country.

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I am standing here telling you what I think. Responsibility is to speak

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plainly about what I think is right the country.

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But Boris Johnson questions whether his deal has

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May I ask my right honourable Friend the Prime Minister to explain

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to the House and the country in exactly what way this deal

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returns sovereignty over any field of lawmaking to these

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Also on the programme, immigration rules are blamed

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for the rise in the number of so-called Skype families.

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He is at risk of creating a generation of children whose only

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contact with one of their parents will be via Skype?

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And freedom of speech in universities - a confession

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As an undergraduate I saw things in black and white terms.

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But first, David Cameron has fired the starting gun for a four-month

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battle over whether the UK should remain in the European Union

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It followed several days of frenetic negotiations in Brussels

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The talks ended with the Prime Minister saying

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that he had secured some important changes -

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reducing welfare benefits for EU migrants and protecting the UK

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from further political union with other EU countries.

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On that basis, he said he would be campaigning for the UK to remain

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The referendum campaign is likely to create some

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interesting parliamentary spectacles.

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Conservative MPs openly disagreeing with each other.

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Mr Cameron being cheered on by many Labour MPs as well as the SNP.

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Six Cabinet Ministers have declared that they are campaigning

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When Mr Cameron made his Commons statement, sitting behind him

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member of that group - the Commons Leader Chris Grayling.

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The Prime Minister told MPs the UK now had a special status

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and would get the best of both worlds.

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We will be in the parts of Europe that work for us,

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influencing the decisions that affect us, in the driving seat

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of the world s biggest single market, and with the ability to take

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action to keep our people safe; but we will be out of the parts

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We will be out of the euro, out of the eurozone bailouts,

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out of the passport-free, no-borders Schengen area,

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and permanently and legally protected from ever being part

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He said the EU still had room for improvement.

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However, with the special status that this settlement gives us,

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I do believe the time has come to fulfil another vital commitment

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that the Government made, and hold a referendum.

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One of the leading lights of the out campaign is the London Mayor Boris

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Mr Johnson has suggested that if the UK voted to leave,

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it could reopen negotiations to seek better terms -

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paving the way for second referendum.

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But those arguments were ridiculed by David Cameron.

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This is a vital decision for the future of our country,

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and I believe we should also be clear that it is a final decision.

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An idea has been put forward that if the country voted to leave,

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we could have a second renegotiation and perhaps another referendum.

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I will not dwell on the irony that some people who want to vote

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to leave apparently want to use a leave vote to remain,

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but such an approach also ignores more profound points

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about democracy, diplomacy and legality.

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Sadly, I have known a number of couples who have begun divorce

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proceedings, but I do not know any who have begun divorce proceedings

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in order to renew their marriage vows.

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But I believe the choice is between being an even greater

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Britain inside a reformed EU and a great leap into the unknown.

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The challenges facing the west today are genuinely threatening: Putin s

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aggression in the east; Islamist extremism to the south.

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In my view, this is no time to divide the west.

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When faced with challenges to our way of life,

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our values and our freedoms, this is a time for

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And let me end by saying this: I am not standing for re-election; I have

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no other agenda than what is best for our country.

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I am standing here today telling you what I think.

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My responsibility as Prime Minister is to speak plainly

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about what I believe is right for our country,

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and that is what I will do every day for the next four months.

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And I commend this statement to the House.

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As you can see the Commons was packed out for Mr Cameron's

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The debate went on for over two and a half hours

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with many of the big political players having their say.

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First to respond to Mr Cameron was the Labour leader,

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Jeremy Corbyn who said Labour was overwhelmingly FOR remaining

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But he said Mr Cameron's deal was largely irrelevant.

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It has been a theatrical sideshow about trying to appease,

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or failing to appease, half of the Prime Minister s

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That is not to say that there have not been some worthwhile changes.

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The red card system to strengthen the hands of national Parliaments

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is something that we on the Labour Benches have long backed.

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Indeed, it was in the Labour manifesto for the last general

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And he dismissed the changes to benefits for EU migrants.

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The changes that the Prime Minister has secured do nothing

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to address the real challenges of low pay in Britain

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and the undercutting of local wage rates

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They will not put a penny in the pockets of workers

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in Britain, stop the grotesque exploitation of many migrant workers

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or reduce inward migration to Britain.

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It is not the politics of fear to point out that those who advocate

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a no vote do not seem to know what a no vote means?

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They continually imply that all the benefits that flow

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from Europe in terms of jobs, investment and security will somehow

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continue to come here when they have swept away the obligations that

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previous British Government have always accepted.

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Scotland is a European nation and the Scottish National party

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We will campaign positively to remain within the EU.

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Hopefully, the Prime Minister can confirm today that he will reject

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the tactics of project fear and that he will make a positive

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case for remaining part of a reforming European Union.

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In his Bloomberg speech, he made it clear that he regarded our national

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Parliament as the root of our democracy.

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Yesterday, he referred to the illusion of sovereignty .

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Will he explain and repudiate that statement, specifically in relation

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to the question now before us, our Parliament, our democracy

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and the making of our laws, which at this moment in time under

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the European Communities Act 1972, are made by a majority vote of other

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countries, are introduced by an unelected Commission,

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and are enforced by the European Court of Justice?

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Does he not accept that the only way of getting out of that

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and returning our democracy is to leave the European Union?

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First, I have huge respect for my hon.

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Friend, who has campaigned on this issue for many years,

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and the one thing he will welcome is the fact that we are now allowing

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the British people a choice on whether to stay in or leave

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the European Union. Despite assurances, it is worth

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remembering that this referendum is about the future of our country,

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not the future of a divided Conservative party.

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Does the Prime Minister agree that it is not just about Britain s

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place in the European Union but about Britain s place

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in the world? Some Labour MPs are campaigning

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The Prime Minister said that great reform has been granted

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Why, then, did the French President say that the European Union has not

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granted the United Kingdom any special dispensations from its rules

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in the deal that has been struck, and go on to say

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that the Prime Minister had accepted that the City of London would not

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have special status compared with Europe s other stock exchanges?

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And last, but not least Boris Johnson.

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May I ask my right honourable Friend the Prime Minister to explain

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to the House and the country in exactly what way this deal

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returns sovereignty over any field of lawmaking to these

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This deal brings back some welfare powers,

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it brings back some immigration powers, it brings back some bail-out

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powers, but more than that, because it carves us forever out

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of ever closer union, it means that the ratchet

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of the European Court taking power away from this country cannot

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For those who worry, and people do worry,

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that somehow if we vote to remain in, the consequence could be more

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action in Brussels to try and change the arrangements we have,

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we have a lock in this House of Commons: no power can be passed

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from Britain to Brussels without a referendum

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The first of many tussles on the EU between Mr Cameron

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You can find out how the debate went in the House

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You're watching Monday in Parliament, with me,

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Tens of thousands of children are said to be growing up

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in so-called Skype families because the only contact they have

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with one parent is via that internet video calling service.

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Opposition MPs blame immigration rules that require British citizens

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to earn ?18,600 a year before they can bring

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But the Immigration Minister insisted that the rules were fair.

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The minimum income threshold of ?18,600

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for sponsoring a partner under the family immigration rules ensures

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that couples wishing to establish their family life

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in the UK do not place burdens on the taxpayer and helps

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The financial threshold family visas is causing particular distress

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to one of my constituents who cannot work the hours required,

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because she is a carer for her vulnerable child.

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This means that my constituent is living without her husband,

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and the child is living without his father.

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Does the Minister acknowledge that he's

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at risk of creating a generation of children whose only contact

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with one of their parents will be via Skype?

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No, I don't accept the point the honourable lady makes.

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These are issues of the welfare of the child

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are absolutely part of the consideration that we take.

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This is a matter that was considered by the Court of Appeal,

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I would say to the honourable lady that when this issue

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of where the threshold was set back in 2011,

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the Migration Advisory Committee gave the lower

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threshold of 18,600, but equally advised that the threshold

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The Government reflected in the circumstances,

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set the level as it has done, and that level has been upheld

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The honourable member has mentioned Skype.

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According to the Children's Commissioner for England,

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there are 15,000 British children growing up

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in these Skype families, where the only contact they have

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How can the Minister justify the stress and anxiety caused

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to children by these inflexible and unjust rules?

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I don't accept the characterisation that the honourable

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Indeed, I do not recognise the number that she has proffered.

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I do say that it is about ensuring good integration.

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This is part of the overall requirement in relation to language.

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Yes, not being a burden on the taxpayer, but equally

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promoting integration, and we believe the policy

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Last year a Conservative think tank called on the Government to change

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these rules, noting, and I quote, "That there is a significant

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"contribution made by millions of low-paid Britons to our economy

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"and society, as well as the value of having families living together

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If the minister won't listen to the opposition on this,

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will he at least listen to a think tank from his own

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party and get rid of these rules which discriminate

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I say again to the honourable lady that we do not believe the rules

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are discriminatory and the way that she suggests and she characterises.

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This system is in place to ensure good integration.

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It is ensuring that people are not a burden on the taxpayer.

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I would've thought that is something she would recognise as being

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a positive aspect of this policy, ensuring that people come

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We welcome that, but the rules have been set in the way that they have,

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have been upheld by the court and continue to underline

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Staying with Home Office questions, the Policing Minister

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was challenged over proposals under which Police and Crime Commissioners

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could take control of Fire Services in England.

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Ministers hope the move will improve efficiency

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But the Fire Brigades Union is opposed to the idea,

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and has accused some commissioners of ill-judged interference

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It's really important that the new generation of police

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and crime commissioners - who will be elected

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in a couple of months' time - get behond this important reform.

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Will he in particular join me in the welcoming commitment

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of the excellent Conservative PCC candidate in Kent,

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Matthew Scott, and his strong desire to impliment these vital reforms?

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I have seen what Matthew Scott is proposing, -

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I'm sure all of us on this side hope he is elected to that office -

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and we need to make sure that we spend the taxpayers' money

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efficiently and well, and collaboration is the best way

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The minister is well aware that the Fire And Rescue Services,

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collaborate very well all over the country,

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particularly with the ambulance trusts.

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Will he tell us why he sees it necessary under this new bill

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that the Police and Crime Commissioners will actually take

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Surely the two organisations are so different

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in so many ways, that you can have this collaboration without the PCC

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I think the truth of the matter is someone who is been duly elected

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to run something, like any PCC would be, is better than anyone

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At the end of the day I'm sure we all want an efficient emergency

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services, and the Fire Service working closely with the ambulance

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and police is the way we would like to do that.

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Given the cuts in funding to the police service

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and the Fire And Rescue Services already budgeted for

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by this Government, can the minister guarantee that placing

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Fire And Rescue Services under PCC control

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will not lead to further cuts in the numbers

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Mr Speaker, thank goodness the Chancellor didn't listen

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to the Labour front bench when we looked

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at funding for the police until 2020, because they wanted

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What we must make sure is that we have an

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efficient service, the sort of service I would've liked to have

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had when I was in the Fire Service, and

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The Government have always justify their cuts to policing

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on the basis that crime has not gone up.

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Since 2010, Greater Manchester Police

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has lost 1664 officers, more than any other force.

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However, recorded crime in Manchester is now going up,

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and going up faster than any other metropolitan area.

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If crime continues to rise, will the Government reasonably

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reconsider their reductions in number of

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Mr Speaker, let's go over this again.

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We as a Government have not reduced the number of police officers

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Actually, in terms of percentages, the number has gone up.

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The one party at the last election that wanted to cut the police

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budgets was the Labour Party, a group of people we did

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Over to the House of Lords now, where some peers were worried that

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freedom of speech is under threat on university campuses.

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A crossbench - or independent peer - Lady Deech gave some examples.

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The silencing of a female Muslim reformer at Goldsmiths.

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Smashed glass, fire alarms set off and the police called

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at Kings College London to stop an Israeli peace

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Peter Tatchell at Canterbury, and other examples.

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Will the minister speak to the vice chancellors at Universities UK

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to ensure that law and freedom of speech is upheld?

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To ask whether the international reputation of our

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And to what does she attribute the stifling of intellectual freedom

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The noble lady is absolutely right, there is clear guidance

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to universities about their responsibilities to ensure free

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and open debate on campuses, and we shall give full support

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leaderships in ensuring that legitimate and open debate

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It has been concerning that we have seen a number of incidents.

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The whole part of the beauty of going to

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university is to be able to debate, have your views challenged

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We must continue to support all universities to make sure that

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all students continue to have that opportunity at university.

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She said there'd been an inconsistent approach

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We have seen examples of student unions

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actively inviting speakers who promote intolerance,

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As I have said, the Government is supporting

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university leadership to ensure that we preserve freedom of speech,

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which is hugely important, and also allow students

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the opportunity to challenge and debate ideas.

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Which is part of the whole purpose of

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Now is not the time for confessions, but I would observe that

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as an undergraduate, I saw things in very black-and-white terms.

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I don't now, despite what might be suggested by my attire.

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I would have loved to have been rebuked by Parliament

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Does the minister agree that there is a great danger

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about intervening in situations such as these, for fear of the risk

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Of course, universities are autonomous bodies.

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As I've already said, students and academics

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have the right to protest around peacefully.

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But what we can't do is quash freedom of speech

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Well, there was no stifling freedom of speech in the Lords

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Here's a Conservative former Chancellor, who chairs

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Is it is not clear that the trivial and inconsequential

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changes which the Prime Minister has secured -

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subject to the legal challenge, of course -

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fall far short of the fundamental, far-reaching reform which three

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years ago in his Bloomberg speech he said was necessary?

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He welcomed the assurance that the UK would not be part

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But, my Lords, we will still be shackled to it.

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And we will have something which is the closest parallel

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It pains me to have to disagree with him, but I do disagree

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with his description, in particular, of what

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the Prime Minister secured through his renegotiation in Europe.

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And to describe it as trivial and inconsequential

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And the reason why I argue that is because he's right -

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the Prime Minister does acknowledge that

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the European Union is about political union.

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But what he has secured in this document, this legally

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binding document, is that we're not a part of that.

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Pro-European peers wanted the Leave campaign to spell out what leaving

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The choice, I hope she agrees, is In, or Out.

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Not in, out, shake it all about, and then rashly hope that something

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helpful will turn up for a country that has abandoned all rights,

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all influence, all power by leaving the EU.

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Now that the negotiations conducted by the Prime Minister can be subject

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to intense scrutiny and analysis, does my noble friend agree

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that it is very important for all possible

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alternative arrangements with the European union be subject

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to an equivilent degree of scrutiny and analysis?

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That she go back to the Cabinet and say, lets find some way

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of requiring these people, who are against the present

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arrangement, to put forward their alternatives so that we can

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They need to be required to do that so we can see

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And if the cabinet can come up with some kind of arrangement,

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I'll give her and the Cabinet three cheers.

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Does my noble friend recall some time ago an interview given

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"If the British cannot support the trend towards more

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"integration in Europe, we can nonetheless remain friends

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"I could imagine a form such as the European Economic Area

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"or a free trade agreement with the UK."

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Doesn't that show that there is actually an alternative

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available, or was Delours just completely wrong?

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And there was a broader attack from the Leave side.

9:57:599:57:58

My Lords, can the noble lady tell us how this pathetic deal is in anyway

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the fundamental reform of the EU itself we were promised?

9:57:599:57:58

For instance, can she tell us how it reduces the hugely

9:57:599:57:58

undemocratic powers of the Luxembourg Court

9:57:599:57:58

And when the Prime Minister tries to frighten us by talking

9:57:599:57:58

about leaving Europe being a leap in the dark,

9:57:599:57:58

which will, for instance, lose us our present access

9:57:599:57:58

to the single market, does the noble lady accept

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that they sell us much more than we sell them?

9:57:599:57:58

That we do have 3 million jobs exporting to them,

9:57:599:57:58

but they have 4.5 million jobs exporting to us?

9:57:599:57:58

That we are their largest client, that they need our free trade very

9:57:599:57:58

So can she tell us why it won't continue?

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Because they will come running after us to have it.

9:57:599:57:58

We have twice saved their bacon in the last hundred years,

9:57:599:57:58

and there is no doubt at the moment there are huge threats.

9:57:599:57:58

And if we left, if we let the EU, I think there would be acertain

9:57:599:57:58

flakiness with the EU, and does she agree that this

9:57:599:57:58

would be a very bad moment for that to happen?

9:57:599:57:58

Europe needs us, and if Europe becomes flakey, the risks of people

9:57:599:57:58

like Putin, from the southern flank, are really huge, and we need to bare

9:57:599:57:58

I think that's why the Prime Minister has said that perhaps

9:57:599:57:58

the only person who would cheer outside

9:57:599:57:58

if we were to vote to leave would be Putin.

9:57:599:57:58

Clearly we do not want to do anything that will brighten his day.

9:57:599:57:58

And that discussion about how to spoil Mr Putin's day brings us

9:57:599:57:58

Alicia McCarthy will here to brighten your day for the rest

9:57:599:57:58

of the week but from me, Kristiina Cooper, goodbye.

9:57:599:57:59

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