28/11/2016 Monday in Parliament

Hello and welcome to Monday in Parliament.

The main news from Westminster.

Passions run high as MPs debate airdropping food and supplies

to desperate Syrians.

What Britain stands for on the world stage

is being challenged.

This is a test.

There is no risk-free course of action left,

but I believe there's a right course of action.

If this house wants to carry out airdrops in a non-benign

environment, expect our aircraft to be brought down.

Also on the programme: Labour MPs say the social care system

is on the verge of collapse.

The Prime Minister didn't have an answer to this

last Wednesday.

When is the minister responsible going to have an answer?

And, there's dismay over the unprecedented number of suicides

in prisons this year.

This disgraceful figure of suicides owes much to the situation which,

frankly, the government has created.

But first, over the last two weeks the Syrian Government -

backed by Russia and Iran - has intensified its mission

to re-establish control over eastern Aleppo.

Aleppo is the second largest city in Syria and one of the oldest

cities in the world.

The eastern area has been in the hands of

rebels for four years.

Life for ordinary citizens is brutal.

Air strikes have killed or injured thousands of people and destroyed

homes and hospitals.

Now, food is running out - which means civilians,

many of them children, may starve to death.

There's been talk, in past Commons debates, about airdropping food

and essential supplies into the area.

But some MPs believe it is the only option left.

A Minister was summoned to the Commons to answer an urgent

question on the matter.

The last functioning hospital was put out of action

on the 19th of November.

Humanitarian access has been deliberately blocked by the regime

and its allies over four months now.

Leading the 275,000 civilians in eastern Aleppo to face

imminent starvation.

He said addressing the dire situation in Syria was a priority

for the Government.

There can be no military solution to this conflict.

What is needed is for the regime and its backers to return

to diplomacy and negotiations on political settlement based

on transition away from President Assad.

The MP who secured the urgent statement said there

was something they could do.

The government envoy said.

The government have always said that airdrops are a last resort,

and I understand that.

But Gareth Bailey, the UK's special representative to Syria,

has tweeted about Aleppo today.

Situation in Aleppo could not be more dire.

Every hospital out of service, official food stocks run out,

nowhere for civilians to run.

He called Aleppo a coffin.

Does the Minister agree that the government needs an urgent

strategy to protect civilians?

When hundreds of thousands of civilians are being starved

and bombed into submission, we must consider airdrops.

It's time for a last resort.

Mr Speaker, what Britain stands for on the world stage is

being challenged.

This is a test.

There is no risk-free course of action left,

but I believe there's a right course of action.

That does not stand and watch as one of the great cities

of the world is destroyed.

Let us not allow 100,000 to starve in eastern Aleppo.

She must understand, I think it's been repeated in this

House before, that were we to do unilateral or even multilateral

airdrops, it places us in harm's way, and in conjunction

with what is already a complicated air environment.

He harked back to August 2013 when the Commons voted

against air strikes in Syria.

Britain has the ability and the aspiration to

play a significant role on the world stage.

We in 2013 in August had that opportunity, Mr Speaker.

And we blinked.

We had an opportunity there to hold Asssad to account.

And because of that, we've ended up with a situation

whereby both Russia and Daesh have come in.

And the question I come to this House...

What are you doing now?

The question I pose to this House, and to the honourable lady who

screams from the seats, is that unless this Parliament gives

the Executive the support that we need, then our hands

are tied on what we can do.

Let us be clear, nobody in this House is underestimating

the complexity and risks involved.

But with no alternatives, the thousands facing death

if they do not get immediate supplies of food and medical

equipment, these are risks that we must be prepared to take.

So can I ask the Minister once more, will he take the urgent steps

required today, to agree a plan for airdrops

by British planes with the UN and our international partners?

As has been called for by the White helmets, whose representatives

are also met last week.

She is now advocating that British aeroplanes,

Hercules aircraft or otherwise, go into Syrian airspace

and make those drops.

They will be shot down.

As my honourable friend, the member for the Armed Forces.

I'm not aware that the UN has actually requested airdrops

per se at the moment.

I'm not saying that they will not be ruled out.

I'm not saying who should actually do those airdrops as well,

it could very well be that we can coordinate and make those happen.

They're not being dismissed.

I simply share with the house that it is hugely complicated,

and having been in the Armed Forces, involved in airdrops

on a number of occasions, many of the occasions when the drop

zone is particularly small, the kit lands in the wrong place

and goes to the very people that you don't actually

want to receive it.

No practical challenge

should be too tough.

No political obstacles too insurmountable to do the right thing

by these people whose suffering is growing day by day.

And who could fail to be moved by the seven-year-old

who is tweeting live from Aleppo when bombs

are falling upon her, asking for help?

I've organised airdrops in a benign environment.

And that's the ideal situation, because airdrops are low.

They're not high, they're low.

And aircraft carrying them out are very vulnerable.

Now, if this house wants to carry out airdrops in a non-benign

environment, expect our aircraft to be brought down.

If that's the risk this Parliament wishes to take, please

in future vote for it.

And everyone in this house should take responsibility for that vote

when an RAF aircraft containing seven or eight people are brought

into the ground and everyone is killed, because that is

the responsibility this House will have to bear.

Bob Stewart, speaking during an intense debate

about airdrops into Syria.

Now, the arguments about last week's Autumn Statement -

setting out the Government's economic plans - rumble on.

Ministers have been accused of neglecting social care -

practical support to help older and disabled adults live

as independently as possible.

Labour MPs say the system is on the verge of collapse.

But Ministers insist they are putting in enough money.

Yesterday the former Health Secretary commented

on the Chancellor's Autumn Statement, saying

that it was a mistake not to provide extra investment in the social care

system which is inadequately funded.

Lastly, directors of social services described social care

as in real jeopardy.

And the Conservative leader of Warwickshire said it is no

exaggeration to say that our care and support system is in crisis.

The Minister says he is providing extra money, but when is this

government going to wake up and provided the funds that

are actually needed to prevent the whole system from collapse?

Well, I can say that during the spending review last

year, we consulted carefully with the sector.

We spoke with the LGA, looked at length at what they said.

They said that we should have ?2.9 billion extra funding available

for adult social care across the spending period.

And we've provided up to ?3.5 million.

The Care Quality Commission has said that the social care system's

about to topple over.

The Local Government Association says that councils can't cope

with the cost pressures.

And much of the funding the Minister's talked

about is either repackaged funding or funding that won't kick

in until late in this decade.

When is he going to come clean about the scale of the crisis,

take his head out of the sand and actually lobby the Treasury

to make sure that promised money for 2020's brought forward,

and we actually get to grips with this crisis?

I would say to the honourable gentleman that this

is not repackaged money.

This is new money for adult social care, up to ?3.5 billion across this

spending review period.

He mentioned the LGA, and their report.

And what I would say in relation to that is that they're absolutely

right that the key to this is better integration between health

and social care, and the ?1.5 billion we're providing

through the better care fund is the best way

in which we continue to promote that.

The mood lightened, briefly, when the Speaker realised he had

to choose between the Eagle sisters.

Well, I am loathe to come between sisters,

and especially between twins!

But, Angela Eagle.

Thank you, Mr Speaker, you may cause me some trouble

later this evening.

In the last six years, this government has cut social care

funding by nearly ?5 billion.

In my own authority of Wirral, there's now a ?3.5 million hole

the budget only halfway through the year.

The system is on its knees, and there is an 18% increase

in emergency admissions to hospital as a result of this.

The Prime Minister didn't have an answer to this

last Wednesday.

When is the Minister responsible going to have an answer?

Mr Speaker, we have enabled councils to raise additional

funding through the adult social care precept.

But I would say to the honourable lady, this is all about priorities

in the way in which local government allocates its finance.

And what I would say to her is that she might

want to have a word with her local council leader and their group,

who sought to spend ?270,000 on a propaganda newspaper.

Is that a good value for money, when they're saying they need more

for social care?

Maria Eagle.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

I'm very grateful to follow my sister.

As I always have.

Liverpool City Council, which covers most of my constituency,

raises ?146 million in council tax every year because of the council

tax base that it has.

This year, it has spent ?151 million on adult social care,

yet this government since 2010 and its predecessor has cut 50%

of the budget that Liverpool City Council has

to fulfil its statutory obligations.

-- 58%

Is the Minister really saying that Liverpool City Council

is in a position to spend any more on adult social care,

which it needs to do, without more money coming

from central government?

Well, I would refer the honourable lady to the indicative allocations

that we made in terms of the better care fund, which takes into account

the ability for particular councils to raise council tax.

I would also say to her that Liverpool, in terms of their average

spending power per dwelling, gets ?100 more than

the national average.

And she might want to also have a discussion with her council

leader how they improve the collection of council tax,

which is well below the national average in Liverpool.

The Local Government Minister, Marcus Jones.

It has just come to light that low-income families -

with a disabled child - have lost out on thousands of pounds

in tax credit payments.

The underpayments,which were between 2011 and 2014,

occurred after the Department for Work and Pensions failed

to share data with Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs.

HMRC said it would repay money owed for last year -

but not earlier years.

One MP raised the issue with the Speaker as a point of order.

At the weekend, it was revealed that thousands of families

with disabled children, including in my constituency,

have lost out up to ?4400 a year in tax credits

after an administrative error by the DWP.

This is as a result of the DWP failing to inform HMRC

about families' eligibility for the award over a three-year

period, and has resulted in an estimated 20,000 families

where children have qualified for DLA during 2011-2014, missing

out on an additional

tax credit premium of

between ?60 and ?84 a week.

At last it's Autumn Statement, the government set aside

?360 million over six years to ensure these families

who were eligible for child disability tax credits

could be awarded this money.

However, the payments will be backdated only to April 2016,

meaning individual families may have lost out on the entitlement

totalling up to ?25,000 over the past five years.

Mr Speaker, can I ask if you have had any indication from the Work

and Pensions Secretary, or any other Minister,

that they will come to this house and make a statement so we can

clarify the impact upon our constituents?

If not, could you give us any other guidance of how we might raise

this issue in this House and scrutinise ministers on it

at the earliest opportunity?

Well, I'm grateful to the honourable lady for her point of order,

and for her courtesy in offering me some advance notice of it.

The short answer to the enquiry towards the end of her point

of order as to whether I have received any indication of unlikely

-- a likely ministerial statement on the matter is no.

But he suggested raising the matter with Treasury Ministers or trying

to secure a debate in Westminster Hall.

You're watching Monday in Parliament, with me,

Kristiina Cooper.

A record number of inmates have taken their own lives in prisons

in England and Wales this year.

That's according to the prison reform charity, the Howard League.

The Howard League said there had been 102 suicides so far in 2016 -

the highest since its records began in 1978.

The Labour peer, Lord Beecham, wanted to know what action

the Government was going to take.

In its prisons White Paper, the Government devotes all of four

paragraphs to health issues, and promises a review.

Given the role of NHS England and Public Health England,

they promise a joint approach to the commissioning of prison

health services, with responsibility for budgetary and clinical decisions

and quality remaining with commissioners and providers,

and with governors taking a joint responsibility.

But most crucially, there is no mention of any additional funding

in the context of the NHS, which is also in the throes

of a growing crisis, of which no extra funding

was promised in the Autumn Statement.

Has the Ministry of Justice made any estimate of the cost of tackling

the health crisis in our prisons?

And will the Department of Health foot the bill,

thereby increasing the pressure on the NHS?

Isn't it high time for the Government to recognise that

extra funding needs to be found for the prison health service,

and not at the expense of the mainstream NHS budget?

My Lords, I do accept that we are in a very serious situation.

My right honourable friend, the secretary of State,

has publicly acknowledged that the levels of violence

in our prisons are too high.

She has also said that we are addressing it,

and that is what the White Paper set out to do,

with a comprehensive reform of our prison system.

That is why she made it quite clear there would be an extra 2500

extra officers by 2018.

I accept 2018 is some way off, so that is why she made it quite

clear that there would be, starting with the most

challenging prisons, an extra 400 officers

by March of next year.

The crisis requires urgent action.

Many more staff in weeks and very few months, not years.

An end to prisoners having to spend 23 hours in their cells.

An end to mental health prisoners being placed in segregation

when we need more secure hospital places.

A serious attack on overcrowding, starting immediately.

I do wish that noble lords and ministers would stop

talking about extra staff.

They are not extra staff, but they are replacement staff,

which were wilfully cut, as the noble Lord Marks has said.

I do wish, too, that ministers would stop taking a long-term view

of what has been exposed as being a crisis by successive

Chief Inspectors of Prisons over many years and has been ignored.

And most recently, it was raised by the Prison Governors Association,

who called for a public enquiry into the state of our prisons.

And they should know, because they are on the receiving

end of what is happening in prisons.

This disgraceful figure of suicides owes much to the situation which,

frankly, the Government has created.

I do hope that the noble lords, who I know has more expertise

in this than anyone else, that the noble lord will accept

that we are doing all that we can in this matter.

Effective, humane and cost-effective solution to this does not lie

inside the prisons at all, or how you treat prisoners,

it depends on how you treat young people so that they do

not become criminals.

The path to criminality is easily detected as it begins.

Very frequently, simply in being excluded from school

and driven onto the streets without supervision.

Small resources would have big results.

Staying with the Lords, Labour peers have been demanding

to know more about any assurances given to Nissan by Ministers

in the days before the Japanese firm confirmed it would be

expanding its car-making operations in the northeast of England.

Last month, Nissan revealed plans to manufacture two new models

at its Sunderland plant, safeguarding more than 7000 jobs.

This question was originally put down when assurances

were given to Nissan, regarding Brexit and the EU.

Now, it remains topical, because everybody else

is still waiting for a reply.

So will the Government confront this uncertainty?

Will they show some leadership and give the sense of direction

that's needed to enable and encourage the investment

and the organisation, so that everybody else can get

on with the job of raising the productivity that we

so desperately need?

My Lords, as I made clear, we will be publishing

an industrial strategy.

We will be publishing it later this year.

And there aren't many days to go until the year ends,

and the noble lord can wait for that occasion.

Does the Government agree that any special Brexit deal for Nissan,

as intimated by the noble lord who asked the question, or any special

deal for any other car-makers isn't even necessary?

Because EU car-makers sell us 2.4 cars for every car we sell them.

And they enjoy 64% of our domestic car-makers.

Also, my Lords, there are 2.5 million jobs in the EU

selling things to us then we have selling things to them.

So isn't it in the EU's interest to continue in free trade with us

in the car and indeed other sectors?

My Lords, we look forward to Nissan producing

many cars as they do.

We are grateful for the fact that they have put such faith

in the North East and this country, and 7000 jobs and a great many

others in the supply stream are dependent on that.

My Lords, we also look forward to continuing to trade

freely with Europe.

Is the noble lord the Minister aware that some 200 American companies

and 50 companies from Japan have located in Wales in order to sell

into the European market, and that any system of financial aid

to industry has to be open, equally accessible and transparent

so that companies like Ford, Toyota, Airbus and Siemens aren't

disadvantaged in regards to their competitors?

As my right honourable friend made clear in the other place,

there has been no compensation package for Nissan.

Given that the need for assurances arises wholly and solely out of this

country's impending departure from the European Union and the

single market, why does the Government feel so inhibited

about publicising, so that it can be examined, the assurances given

to see whether their is in fact a special deal, and maybe it

and maybe it could be imparted to all the other companies

that will be affected?

My Lords, what I made clear is that there was no

compensation package to Nissan.

That has been something that my right honourable friend,

the Secretary of State, has made clear, and my noble

friend has made clear when she repeated that statement

on the 30th of October.

And finally, measures to restrict internet pornography so children

do not find it by accident will be among the most robust in the world,

according to the Government.

But the Culture Minister, Matthew Hancock, admitted that adult

content on platforms such as Twitter will not be covered

by the Digital Economy Bill.

The Bill was back in the Commons after being scrutinised

in detail by a committee.

The introduction of a new law, requiring appropriate age

verification measures for online pornography is a bold step,

and it has many challenges.

It represents the first stage of ensuring commercial suppliers

of pornographic material are rightly held responsible

for what they provide and profit from.

When the internet brings incredible and unlimited opportunities,

it also has the potential to change the way younger generations

grow up to understand and experience healthy relationships.

And delivering on this manifesto commitment to stop children

and young people's access to online pornographic sites

remains our priority.

We want to get this right, and the provisions in this Bill,

I believe, enable us to do that.

One of the means by which young people are now accessing pornography

more and more is through social media and sites like Twitter.

Can he say how his age verification requirements

are going to apply to Twitter?

The age verification requirements apply to the commercial

provision of pornography.

Now, commercial provision is not only paid for,

it's also that which is provided for a commercial return.

There is a difference between websites that provide

commercial pornography and platforms on which others can upload images.

Getting this right around that second group is much harder

than around the first group.

One of these things that this Bill does is that it deals

with the publication of pornography.

But one of the things that we need to do is help

children be more resilient, and actually understand

that these images are not normal sexual behaviour,

are the kind of violence that should not be part of relationships.

And yet, when we look at the research by NSPCC and others,

we learn that children, particular boys,

think this is normal.

What discussions has he had with the Department for Education

to try and build greater resilience among children to some

of the images that, despite the efforts in this Bill,

they will see?

The Minister replied that he entirely agreed,

and conversations on this were taking place with

the Department for Education.

No more conversations from us though, because that's it

from Monday In Parliament.

Alicia McCarthy will be here for the rest of the week.

But from me, Kristiina Cooper, goodbye!