27/03/2017 Monday in Parliament

Hello, and welcome to Monday in Parliament,

our look at the day in Westminster.

The Energy Secretary promises an investigation,

after a nuclear clean-up contract ends early and ?100 million

with significant financial consequences.

And I am determined that the lessons to be learned should be exposed

and understood, that those responsible should be held

to account and that it should never happen again.

Technology companies are asked how they see themselves assisting

What's more important, privacy or protection? I don't think there's

necessarily can either/ or answer. I suppose the response is that we want

both of them. And A Labour MP calls

for a suspension on hunting with hounds because of concerns over

Bovine TB. But first, Energy Secretary

Greg Clark has promised lessons will be learned,

as he told the Commons details of how a multi-billion pound

contract to decommission Magnox nuclear power sites has

to be scrapped. The tender process for the jobs

was described as "flawed" and ?100 million has been paid out

in compensation and costs. The Shadow Energy Secretary,

Rebecca Long-Bailey, put down an urgent question,

which summoned Mr Clark The inquiry will take

a cradle to grave approach, beginning with the NDA's

procurement and ending The inquiry will set out the lessons

learnt and recommend any further action it sees fit,

including any disciplinary investigations of proceedings

that may be appropriate. The inquiry will report jointly

to me and the Cabinet Secretary and the report will be

available to this house and the Mr Speaker, this was

a defective procurement, with significant

financial consequences. And I am determined that the lessons

to be learned should be exposed and understood, that those

responsible should properly held to account and that it should

never happen again. The Shadow Energy Secretary

condemned the conduct of the Nuclear Decomissioning

Authority, or NDA. Two other companies had taken

the government to court over the way The judgement confirmed that the NDA

had not acted properly in the tender process

and that it was acutely aware that an unsuccessful

bidder may challenge the outcome of The court also stated that the NDA

had fudged the evaluation, to What is more worrying

is that the judge also confirmed that the NDA also

attempted to get rid of information which might have been

detrimental to it. That included reference

to shredding notes. Given the serious nature

of the judgement, will the Secretary of State assure the house

there will be full public disclosure of investigations

and a public hearing? Does the secretary also agree

that the future operation of the NDA has been called into

question as a result of this case? She raises some important questions

about the procurement. That is exactly why it seems to me we have

to have an independent figure, independent of government and

independent of the NDA to report to this House, make his report

available to this House to me and the Cabinet Secretary, to make sure

that things cannot happen again stop if there is fault and an error has

been made, then the recommendation of disciplinary action can follow

from that. MRI double friend join me in

thanking the workforce? Will he also listen to their real concerns about

the effect on their pension entitlements with certain changes

being made regarding the cap on payments?

The UK government's nuclear obsession will do nothing to lower

the next generation with unprecedented economic,

environmental and security instability and risk.

The Tories should do the responsible thing and

scrap their nuclear obsession in favour of investment in renewable

energy and carbon-capture technology.

Scottish Renewables recently reported that one in six

energy jobs in Scotland is under threat within the next year.

Will the government had knowledge that

its energy policies have to be reviewed, to allow the Scottish

government to continue with its competent and ambitious

vision of a prosperous, green future?

I think the honourable lady should maybe show more humility here.

The Scottish government provided oversight of this

procurement as part of the NDA competition programme board.

I am sure that the lessons to be learned

will be applied by the government in Scotland, as well,

Can I ask if the enquiry will be confined to the procurement process

Can I ask that other contracts, such as that to decommission Dounreay,

essentially awarded to the same consortium that won

I think he may have already confirmed this, but could he come

from that the enquiry will be broad enough to consider of the governance

and management arrangements of the NDA have always been, and will

The Energy Secretary said that was the case

and the head of the inquiry was free to go where the evidence took him.

Cyber security has been brought to the fore following the

revelation that the man involved in the Westminster attacks last week

used encrypted messaging on his phone just before the killings.

This digitally scrambles users' messages in transit,

so that even the company running the service cannot see its content.

The Home Secretary Amber Rudd has summoned a number of tech companies

to a meeting to discuss ways of making sure security officers

On Monday, the joint committee on the security strategy asked

security experts if the government was right to be,

as one put it, bullying those companies.

I think it is an interesting question

and one which goes way beyond cyber security.

I think it is an ethical and moral question.

I have been to conferences where questions have been posed to

the audience about what is more important - privacy or protection?

I don't think this is necessarily an either/or answer.

The response is, we want both of them.

Sometimes, we want more of one than the other, I guess.

That relationship was really driven by the last security threat.

In Israel, for example, they are much more willing

to sacrifice privacy for security. Are we willing to do that?

The view is that the digital marketplace is very fluid.

If you ensure WhatsApp or Signal cannot use encrypted messaging,

consumers will move to another platform.

Without wishing to scaremonger, what is the

worst case scenario for a cyber attack on this country

You can see a likely scenario, where our ability for

for our health systems, our electricity,

our critical national infrastructure to function could

Interestingly, many of the adversaries who might

want to do that up until now, there are other

geopolitical bounds on them which may cause them not to

But as capability becomes more and more accessible,

then I think we could see criminals and terrorists becoming more capable

and then you have less of the diplomatic and political

The problem is you cannot make policy based

You have to make policy based on probability and what is most

Aggressors have had this technology for over 30 years.

They have generally been restrained from using it

Terrorists are not so restrained, but they do not

necessarily have the capabilities of a nation state.

There are real differences between who the

aggresso is, what is the target and what are the goals?

The thing we need to worry about is a general

societal programme to promote resiliency within the state to

The probability of a real major cyber attack is probably more likely

in the context of a major war with Russia or China.

That is not necessarily on the table.

That is really something out of the imagination.

And it is not how we should really govern.

We should govern based on what is likely to happen.

The prospect of our TVs being a Trojan horse, to spy on us.

It will be a thing. You are seeing smart meters and other benefits. Now

that your boiler can report that it is starting to degrading

performance, so with the engineer comes out, they replace the part

proactively, those are the upsides that company 's will see from the

Internet of things. Autonomous vehicles, again we are seeing a

proliferation of these. All of these functionalities. We have to accept

that our lives and if a structure and cities, in our buildings, will

be connected to the Internet for telemetry purposes at the braid

lease. Consumers go out and buy these devices and they buy them

based upon their functionality, not based upon the security that should

be built into them. What we have is a disconnect. You have manufacturers

that are trying to produce something as quickly and cost effectively as

they can. You have users that Karabakh functionality and security

as an afterthought. So what you see is the risk is passed on from the

manufacturer to the consumer. One of the things we as an industry and

government need to look at is to work out how we can manage that

risk. The Work Pensions Secretary

has promised to look at cases raised by MPs over

Personal Independence Payments claimants having their

claims turned down. In one case, because the person

was in hospital and by MPs in another, because the claimant

was told the payment was not meant for people suffering

from mental illness. At Work Pension Questions,

the quertion of women born in the 1950s facing hardship

because oif a delay in claiming But the minister said there would be

no concessions for the Former Sergeant William Bradley, who

is one of my constituents, developed severe PTSD and depression after the

Gulf War. He was discharged from the Army. Having been on the enhance PIP

rate, he was cut to the lower rate last year. It is now been removed

completely. The reply from the hotline was that someone with mental

health issues can work, and this is a benefit for people with severe

physical disabilities. What the honourable lady has told me has

happened is truly shocking. I would be incredibly surprised if somebody

manning that hotline said those things to the honourable lady. I

have no reason, I'm not saying I doubt her story, but I would like to

know that and find out the exact time that that conversation took

place. That is quite wrong. Last week, I had to deal with a

constituent whose benefits were stopped because she missed an

appointment to be assessed for PIP. She missed that because she was an

inpatient in-hospital in Aberdeen. Even after evidence of that was

exhibited to the minister's Department, they twice refused to

reinstate her benefits because they said they had done nothing

procedurally wrong. Is the Minister content that that is how the system

is supposed to work rest and muck? He will know that is not Howard is

supposed to work. If there is a reasonable reason why someone has

not attended an appointment, then that should not count against them.

I would be quite happy to look at the honour roll polls -- honourable

gentleman's case. One of the recommendations came out of the

select committee talked about allowing the women the chance to

claim their pensions early, at a reduced rate. That is cost neutral

and fits in other areas where other pensioners have been able to take

their pensions at a reduced rate. The proposal is not cost neutral, I

must make that clear. It is impractical and it possible to do in

the time concerned. I have made it clear that the transitional issues

are all that will be provided. What was the minimum notice facing those

with the changing age? You two acts apartment that where these changes

came in. I would like to make it clear that after the 1995 one, for

18 months, it was the maximum time for change since that Bill.

You're watching Monday in Parliament, with me, Joanna Shinn.

A Labour MP has suggested that hunting should be suspended

the scale of bovine tuberculosis among fox hounds.

Paul Flynn said there was a substantial danger

He was speaking in a Westminster Hall debate

on a petition signed by more than 100,000 people,

calling for an end to the badger cull.

Mr Flynn said the Kimblewick Hunt had had to put down 25 hounds

after they contracted the disease and another 120 were tested.

The danger does seem to be a very substantial one.

I believe that there is evidence here for a new investigation

into the prevalence of bovine TB among foxhounds,

and a case for saying that hunting should be suspended.

I would urge my honourable friend to keep on with these trial areas.

That is what my farming constituents want.

The proof will be in the pudding, when the results are evaluated.

But anecdotally, so far, they believe that they work.

Culling, as practised in the last four years,

It has no basis in science, as the science has been distorted,

then twisted and then, in the end, utterly abandoned.

The very least the Government could do is furnish Parliament

with a full evaluation of the impact of culling in the two pilot areas,

West Gloucestershire and West Somerset,

where four years of culling are now complete.

The Minister, back in the debate in September 2016,

about whether or not an evaluation would be commissioned.

But it is hard to imagine that this policy can do anything other

than lose the last desperate shreds of its credibility.

If it worked, if it eliminated TB in badges and in cattle, then I could

probably live with the fact that it was necessary because in the long

run it would be the kindest thing to do. But we don't know how many of

these 15,000 sort of badges have even had TB, because they haven't

been tested. So where was the science in that? We don't know

whether it's cattle giving him a macro to badgers, or vice versa, or

both, because that hasn't been proven. I would not sanction this

cal unless it was necessary to combat this terrible disease and the

advice we have from chief veterinary officers is clear, that we cannot

eradicate this disease unless we also tackle the reservoir of the

disease in the wildlife population, and that is, while contentious, it

is the right policy, and sometimes you have to do the right policy even

if it is not popular. The honourable gentleman for Newport West raised

the issue of the Candlewick hunt and dogs, and I would say this and that

veterinary advice is clear, that dogs are not a major contributor to

the spread of the disease, incidence of TB in dogs is rare, we do because

we get incidence of in dogs and cats, and we recently in three years

had a outbreak in cats, but this is not a key contributor but in the

case of the Candlewick hunt I can tell him that an epidemiological

investigation into the incident is under and until this is completed it

would be wrong since stagnate. The Government

has been defeated in the Lords over financial support for students

undertaking apprenticeships. The defeat came

during detailed debate on the Government's Technical

and Further Education Bill, which aims to boost high-quality

technical education. Labour's spokesman, Lord Watson,

accused ministers of treating apprentices

like "second-class citizens" compared to students

in "approved education or training". Yet in addition to the ineligible to

learn childcare grant unlike further education students, some miss out on

cancer that exemptions and student care packages, and because

apprenticeships are not classed as approved education or training by

the Department for Work and Pensions. The apprentices must spend

at least 20% of their contracted work hours off the job or at least

will do after the 1st of April, which means that the college with a

training provider. What does an apprentice in supposedly do in such

situations if he or she is not receiving approved education or

training course to mark these families could lose out thousands of

pounds a year in child benefit. Families receiving universal credit

could lose more than ?3000. A Lib Dem peer said

parents were losing crucial support. When that happens, there are

financial support goes, so that is a disincentive to actually carry on an

apprenticeship. Now, there is evidence to show that quite a number

of students because of this disincentive haven't taken that

opportunity, and I think this amendment will help to ensure that

we protect the very people we want is to encourage to take on

apprenticeships. I do not think it is correct to being on an

apprenticeship, to being an higher education where it's due and is

making a substantial investment in their education, and has appropriate

access to student finance apprenticeships by contrast are real

jobs, and those undertaking them are employees who earn a wage and

students are treated as such by the benefit system, and although

apprentices spend generally a fifth of their time in training, it is

part of the minimum wage regulations that they are paid whilst

undertaking that training, so I can't share the noble Lords's

suggestion that while they are doing a training this equates to being in

higher education because they are still being paid.

But peers voted by 244 to 190, majority 54, for the proposal

ensuring the parents of young apprentices would still qualify for

The Government is likely to try to overturn the decision

when the legislation returns to the Commons.

Concerns have been raised in the Lords about a government

experiment using technology behind the virtual currency, Bitcoin.

A small number of benefit claimants taking part in a trial

to help them better manage their money.

But critics fear sensitive data could be accessed

The initial independent assessment of the small-scale trial has been

positive. The Department for Work and Pensions continues to work with

the industry to explore a new and innovative products such as this

which helps the potential to support people with their personal budgeting

and reduce the overall cost of welfare administration. My Lords,

would my noble friend agreed that initial findings offer real

potential in this area not least in greatly empowering the relationship

between benefit recipients and a government, while at the same time

the potential to realise significant savings for the taxpayer. To this

and we urge noble colleagues in the department to push ahead with a

full-scale trial to see how we can fully deployed this technology, not

only DWP, but across government? Certainly we want to look very

carefully at this particular trial. It was a very small trial, only

involving some 20 to 30 people. It is more I think what was termed a

proof of concept rather than a trial full stop it has certainly produced

encouraging results and we would like to look at those in due course.

Concerns have been raised including I understand members of the

government digital services, that this technology could be used in

future to my daughter or even control Social Security claimant

benefits spending. Can he give a categorical assurance that this will

not happen in the interest of claimant's privacy and freedom of

choice? I can give the noble Baroness that categorical assurance.

The Department for Work and Pensions has absolutely no access to any

claimant information, will have no access to claimant information, in

the future, in further trials. This initiative however welcome is 1's

very small step in tackling the much larger problem of financial

exclusion, and could the Minister give me assurance that the dominant

will carefully consider the recommendations of the select

committee on financial exclusion who just bought was published on

Saturday and I have the privilege of sharing that is missing.

Particularly those that ensure that fewer people are on banked in the

first place. I was wondering whether she would like to get into highlight

that report on Saturday. I haven't yet had the opportunity, only having

come out recently beyond the embargo until Friday, I haven't had the

opportunity to read it, I have glanced, but I can give an assurance

to the noble Baroness the and will look and give it the opportunity.

Will trade as signing up to this scheme be able to offer discounts to

people on the skin? I thought the next try was for 1000 people. I

love, there is no trial planned,. Dealing purely in cash means that

certain people find life more expensive, and people prefer to pay

by other more advanced means at times.

A Conservative wondered if there were wider uses

The block chain technology in general has abnegation is far beyond

this trial, indeed across government and society, and is the government

studying the phenomenon to check it where it might be useful? My noble

friend is absolutely right, there are very interesting ideas that come

from block chain and other things. I don't want to expand further on that

in this particular question. We are dealing just with a small-scale

trial here signed to make life here easier for certain benefit

claimants. Make it easier for them to manage their money. My noble

friend asked about the need for an ethical framework, underpinning the

use of the sort of technology. Obviously the government's decided

to go ahead with the trial in absence of such remote but does the

government agree that such a framework is needed?

Lord Henley said during the recent trial,

that the Department for Work and Pensions

could not see how their money was spent.

Kristina Cooper's here for the rest of the week.