10/07/2017 Monday in Parliament


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10/07/2017

Highlights of proceedings in Parliament on Monday 10 July with Kristiina Cooper.


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Hello and welcome to Monday in Parliament.

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The main news from Westminster: After the G20 summit,

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the Prime Minister is confident about the UK's position in the world

:00:12.:00:14.

- but dismayed at America's position on climate change.

:00:15.:00:22.

I spoke personally to President Trump to encourage them to rejoin

:00:23.:00:28.

the Paris Agreement and I continue to hope that is exactly what he will

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do. Theresa May is reaching out to other

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parties on big policy issues - Labour says her Government has run

:00:31.:00:33.

out of steam. If the Prime Minister would like it

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I am very happy to furnish her with a copy of our election manifesto, or

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better still an early election so that the people of this country can

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decide. Also on the programme:

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The Falkland Islander who travelled 8,000 miles to raise

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concerns about Brexit. We may well lose the support of the

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rest of Europe and may well see Spain and possibly other members of

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Europe giving greater support to Argentina over its mistaken and a

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legal claim to the Falkland islands. When the leaders of

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the G20 countries - the world's leading economies -

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descended on Hamburg, in Germany, last week -

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there was a lot to talk about. Terrorism, internet security,

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international trade These events are also interesting

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for what they reveal about the dynamics between

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the world's most powerful politicians and the

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countries they lead. When Theresa May reported back

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to Parliament she expressed confidence about the UK's place

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in the world, saying that it made "leading

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contributions" on many issues - At this summit we set the agenda

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again calling on our G20 Calling on our G20

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partners to squeeze the lifeblood out of terrorist networks

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by making the global financial system an entirely hostile

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environment for terrorists. And we secured agreement

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on all our proposals. She was upbeat about the UK's

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prospects after Brexit. As we leave the

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European Union we will negotiate a new comprehensive,

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bold and ambitious free trade But we will also seize the exciting

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opportunities to strike deals with old friends

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and new partners. And at the summit I held a number

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of meetings with other world leaders all of whom made clear

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that there are strong desires to forge ambitious new bilateral

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trading relationships with the UK This included America,

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Japan, China and India. And this morning

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I welcomed Australian Prime Minister Turnbull

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to Downing Street where he also reiterated his desire for a bold

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new trading The US President Donald Trump

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has pulled the US out of the international Paris Agreement

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on climate change. At the end of the summit,

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19 countries reaffirmed Theresa May raised the issue

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with the President. I and my counterparts

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in the G20 are dismayed at America's withdrawal

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from this Agreement. I spoke personally to

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President Trump to encourage him to rejoin the Paris Agreement and I

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continue to hope that is exactly Theresa May is on a mission to reach

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out to opposition parties, saying she is amenable to ideas

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about the big issues of the day - Her appeal was dismissed

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by the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, who demanded

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a general election instead. This Government is apparently now

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asking other parties If the Prime Minister

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would like it I am very happy to furnish her with a copy

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of our election manifesto. Or better still an early

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election in order for the Let's face it, the Government

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has run out of steam, in our country and the

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world amid uncertainty the Gulf states, nuclear sabre

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rattling over North Korea, refugees continuing to flee war

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and destruction, ongoing pandemics, cross-border terrorism, poverty,

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inequality, and the impact of climate change, are the core global

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challenges of our time. Just when we need

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strong Government we This Government is

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the architect of these failed austerity policies

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and now threatens to use Brexit to turn

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Britain into a low wage, deregulated, tax haven

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on the shores of Europe. A narrow and hopeless version

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of the potential of this country which would only

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serve the few, one that would ruin industry,

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destroy innovation and ruin people's The SNP leader said the UK

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was floundering around on the world alliance formed with

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the American President on trade. Goodness knows what a trade deal

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with America right now would mean for public services,

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food quality or worker's rights. Indeed talk about UK-US trade

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deal was dealt a blow by the Prime Minister's

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own Justice Secretary who just hours after

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the summit ended said it wouldn't

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be enough on its own. The Prime Minister

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must now come to her A United Kingdom outside the single

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market would be ruinous. Our EU friends and

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partners are moving on without us, just this year alone

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finalising trade deals with Japan and Canada while the UK

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readily turns in on itself. There are only two weeks

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to go before Parliament It is one of the last chances MPs

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will get to quiz the Prime Minister. Several MPs are concerned

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about the UK withdrawing from the European nuclear safety

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and research watchdog. The Prime Minister

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will no doubt be aware about the growing concern

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across the House about her proposal to withdraw the UK from the Euratom

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treaty despite the concerns

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there are about the implications for the movement of scientists,

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nuclear materials and Can she explain to

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the House what the UK nuclear industry gains

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from such a policy? I am sure the right honourable

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gentleman will be aware, he is chairing the Select Committee,

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that membership of Euratom is inextricably

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linked with membership But what we are doing, as we

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signalled in the Queen's speech, with reference to a future bill

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on this issue, is wanting to ensure relationships, that cooperation

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with Euratom, which enables the exchange of scientists,

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the exchange of There are countries around

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the world that have that relationship with Euratom

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which are not members of the European Union,

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but we need to put that Bill in place and I look forward

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to his support for the Bill. When journalists have

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been murdered in Putin's Russia does the Prime

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Minister share my anger at the chilling sight of Presidents

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Trump and Putin joking And will she commit to stressing

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the importance of the independence of the media to both

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leaders when she meets them next? About this new love fest

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with the benches opposite, given the record of the Leader

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of the Opposition on the counterterrorism and security

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act, does she possess a very long Well, yes, I can say to my right

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honourable friend that I have in the past as Home Secretary

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welcomed the cooperation which I have had from the Labour benches,

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not from the right honourable gentleman who is currently

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Leader of the Opposition, but from others on his benches,

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who have seen the need to ensure that agencies have

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appropriate powers to deal with the Those calls for cooperation

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were also seized on by She wondered if Defence Ministers

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would agree to a pay rise After losing her

:08:13.:08:18.

majority at the general election the Prime Minister has now

:08:19.:08:24.

signalled that she is prepared to work across the House with other

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parties in areas of agreement. In that spirit I

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would like to make a The Government has just

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introduced an Armed Forces If they agree to amend that

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Bill to include a real terms pay rise for our

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Armed Forces personnel then they can count

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on Will the Government agree

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to work with us to give our Armed Forces the pay

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award they deserve? We all want to see our

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Armed Forces being properly remunerated for the service

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that they give us. But it is also incumbent

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on the honourable lady to make it very clear how any increase

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that she is favouring would be And that is something

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she hasn't done, her party hasn't done, and they certainly

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didn't do it the last election. The pay review system

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we have is beyond It's an independent pay

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review body that looks at comparability with the civilian

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sector, looks at the issue of retention and recruitment,

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and makes its recommendation. On the contrary we had

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our manifesto fully They know how to raise

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taxes if they need them. The fact of the matter is that

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the Armed Forces pay review body is severely constrained

:09:46.:09:50.

by the overall cap of 1% on public sector pay

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the If the Government will not

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legislate for a pay rise will the Secretary

:09:54.:10:01.

of State at least allow the pay review body

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to carry out a review and report

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on what our Armed Forces should be receiving if the cap

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were not in place? On the first point I

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am staggered to hear the honourable lady thinks

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that her manifesto was fully costed

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or indeed fully funded. There were billions

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and that manifesto that were due to be borrowed and paid

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for by future generations. So far as we have implemented

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the recommendation in full by the review body for this

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financial year, so far as next year is concerned evidence

:10:35.:10:37.

is ready being acquired I will give my own evidence later

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in the year and we will see what recommendation

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they come up with. The Defence Secretary,

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Sir Michael Fallon. You're watching Monday In Parliament

:10:51.:10:53.

with me, Kristiina Cooper. Coming up: fears that

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Brexit means piracy. There are voices that think that

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Brexit means Britain can hoist the Jolly Roger.

:11:15.:11:18.

The High Court has ruled that UK arms sales to

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The court rejected campaigners' claims that ministers were acting

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illegally by failing to suspend weapon sales to the kingdom,

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Some of the evidence was heard in secret.

:11:29.:11:32.

When the International Trade Secretary came to the Commons

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to brief MPs on the ruling, he faced some hostile questioning.

:11:35.:11:43.

The Government relied upon material which was brought forward

:11:44.:11:45.

evidence which was not able to be seen or heard by

:11:46.:11:49.

the Campaign Against the Arms Trade or their lawyers.

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As such, the court ruling that the Government's decision

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was a rational one given the procedures and evidence it

:11:54.:11:56.

considered was based on secret evidence,

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which it was impossible to challenge.

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Does the Secretary of State accept that the court judgment

:12:03.:12:05.

makes specific reference to the substantial body of evidence

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presented in open session that in fact suggests a clear risk does

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exist that British arms might be used in violation

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of international humanitarian law, will he agree to make the evidence

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that was available only in closed session available to members of this

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House on Privy Council terms, or indeed, make it available

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to the intelligence and security select committee?

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I do take exception, Mr Speaker, with the final point that he made.

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Because this idea that somehow, if we have closed sessions,

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that makes the judgment less valid, I simply don't accept.

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Because I don't accept this idea that we cannot have closed sessions

:12:41.:12:44.

that protect our national security, for the personnel involved

:12:45.:12:48.

in our national security, sources need be protected.

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I will listen to the argument that he makes, but I simply

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Medecins Sans Frontieres report today that Yemenis are afraid to go

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and to stay in the cholera treatment centre in Abs,

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since it was bombed by Saudi Arabia last August, killing 19 people.

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This atrocity was declared an unintentional mistake, along with

:13:10.:13:16.

facilities in Hayden, Razeh and Saada, among others,

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How many hospitals, protected by international humanitarian law,

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will the Secretary of State allow to be hit by Saudi Arabia before

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Mr Speaker, the Honourable lady talks as though there is only one

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party in this particular dispute in that part of the world,

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And as I say, we take the absolute, the clear risk criteria

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But I'm afraid that making the sort of rather uninformed points

:13:48.:13:52.

that she does for propaganda purposes doesn't actually help

:13:53.:13:54.

While the Secretary of State and the Government may have won

:13:55.:14:00.

this legal skirmish, they certainly haven't won the moral

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case and there are still many unanswered questions

:14:04.:14:05.

about the relationship here and the terrible situation

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The Secretary of State said that on one hand, he was confident,

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but on the other hand, the court judgment makes it clear

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that he was anxious, and in fact, as he knows,

:14:16.:14:17.

he wrote to the Foreign Secretary saying, "I am concerned

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that the issue continues to be finely balanced.

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I ask that you commission a further detailed assessment

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and send me updated advice, and that you seek advice

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from senior Government lawyers before making a recommendation."

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It is my job to be anxious about these things.

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It is my job to give the nth degree of scrutiny,

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because lives are potentially being lost if we make

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And it is the judgment of myself, the Foreign Secretary and other

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senior ministers that gives us such anxiety.

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Were we to be cavalier, the honourable gentleman

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would be absolutely right to command criticise us.

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When we take the nth degree of care about the judgments we make,

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as previous governments before have done, then he ought to be very

:14:56.:14:58.

grateful we are doing so in the country's interests.

:14:59.:15:01.

Eight British Overseas Territories have sent representatives to give

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evidence to a Lords Committee investigating the long-term

:15:04.:15:05.

Roger Edwards, a Member of the Legislative Assembly

:15:06.:15:11.

of the Falkland Islands, told peers about the potential

:15:12.:15:13.

With the UK a full member of the European Union

:15:14.:15:21.

and a signatory to the Treaty of Rome, all the rest of

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Europe is obliged to recognise and accept that the UK OTs

:15:25.:15:27.

Once the UK is no longer a member state, nor a signatory to

:15:28.:15:36.

the Treaty of Rome, the same obligations do not apply and we may

:15:37.:15:41.

well lose the support of the rest of Europe,

:15:42.:15:46.

and may well see Spain and possibly other members of Europe

:15:47.:15:52.

giving greater support to Argentina over its mistaken and illegal claim

:15:53.:15:55.

There are concerns, too, in Pitcairns -

:15:56.:16:02.

the UK's smallest overseas territory.

:16:03.:16:05.

We would, ideally, likely be in a position where we are no worse

:16:06.:16:14.

off than we would have been had we stayed in the EU.

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We have one of the purest honeys in the world,

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Europe is one of our biggest markets.

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And what will be the impact, it has to be tested each year

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for us to be on the EU list, will we be still be allowed to do that?

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It's not significant in terms of quantum,

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it's only 25,000 units a year, which is the maximum we can put

:16:33.:16:35.

But not being able to ship that to Europe would certainly have

:16:36.:16:40.

The wider concern, he said, was that Pitcairns would become isolated.

:16:41.:16:48.

Now, MPs are to hold an emergency debate on the infections of NHS

:16:49.:16:52.

patients by contaminated blood products in the 1970s and 1980s.

:16:53.:16:57.

The request for the debate was made by Labour's Diana Johnson, who said

:16:58.:17:00.

the Mayor of Greater Manchester, Andy Burnham, had used his

:17:01.:17:03.

final speech as an MP to present a dossier.

:17:04.:17:10.

In his valedictory speech to this House on the 25th of April 2017,

:17:11.:17:14.

the then right honourable member for Leigh outlined a dossier

:17:15.:17:16.

amounting to criminal conduct on the part of individuals involved

:17:17.:17:21.

He said that if the Government did not commit to a public enquiry

:17:22.:17:27.

before the summer recess, he would refer this

:17:28.:17:29.

The then Parliamentary Undersecretary of State for Health

:17:30.:17:35.

asked him to submit his dossier of evidence to the Health

:17:36.:17:38.

She assured the House that this would be given the highest priority.

:17:39.:17:44.

However, we have heard nothing since then.

:17:45.:17:48.

And we now have further unanswered questions which underline the need

:17:49.:17:50.

And she referred to recent newspaper reports.

:17:51.:18:07.

the Daily Mail set out evidence that as early as 1980, officials

:18:08.:18:11.

knew that 50 people with haemophilia a year

:18:12.:18:13.

were being infected with hepatitis C.

:18:14.:18:14.

Nothing was done about this for five years.

:18:15.:18:16.

Secondly, as reported in the Sunday Times,

:18:17.:18:18.

on Friday the 7th of July, the Westminster leaders of all six

:18:19.:18:21.

non-government parties in the House of Commons,

:18:22.:18:22.

including the Democratic Unionist Party, wrote a joint letter

:18:23.:18:24.

to the Prime Minister urging her to commit

:18:25.:18:26.

the right honourable Andy Burnham reaffirmed his commitment to refer

:18:27.:18:34.

cases of alleged criminality to the police and confirmed he has

:18:35.:18:37.

an appointment with the police on the 26th of July.

:18:38.:18:42.

The Speaker granted the debate - it willl take place on Tuesday.

:18:43.:19:00.

The former head of MI5 has described the scale of the terrorist threat as

:19:01.:19:07.

unprecedented. She told the Lords that the threat has grown since the

:19:08.:19:11.

attacks in July 2007. This year, on four dates over

:19:12.:19:15.

the course of three months, our country has been

:19:16.:19:18.

attacked by terrorists. Westminster, Manchester Arena,

:19:19.:19:20.

London Bridge and Borough 36 dead and over 150 injured

:19:21.:19:21.

in these atrocious attacks. Terrorists mean to sow fear

:19:22.:19:25.

and division, but ours is a community of many faiths

:19:26.:19:28.

and many nationalities and all have come together in the face

:19:29.:19:32.

of these senseless acts. And if these attacks

:19:33.:19:37.

have shown us anything, it is that attack on one part

:19:38.:19:39.

of our community is This Government is committed

:19:40.:19:42.

to ensuring there is no safe space My right honourable friend

:19:43.:19:49.

the Home Secretary continues to lead efforts with technology companies

:19:50.:19:55.

to remove terrorist material. We continue to work closely

:19:56.:19:58.

with social media companies, to progress an industry led forum

:19:59.:20:02.

that will look to take a new, global approach to tackling

:20:03.:20:05.

terrorist use of the internet. Lord Harris was commissioned

:20:06.:20:21.

by London's Mayor Sadiq Khan to look at how prepared London would be

:20:22.:20:24.

for a terrorist attack. My lords, I remain disturbed that

:20:25.:20:26.

even now, not enough is being done We benefit from the fact that

:20:27.:20:31.

firearms are more difficult to acquire in this country

:20:32.:20:34.

than elsewhere in the world. However, there is almost

:20:35.:20:37.

a complacency about this, with an assumption that the sort

:20:38.:20:39.

of attacks that occurred in Paris But London and other cities

:20:40.:20:42.

are by no means firearms free. During July and August in my review,

:20:43.:20:49.

the Metropolitan Police recorded 202 firearms discharges,

:20:50.:20:52.

compared to 800... Compared to 87 in the same months

:20:53.:20:55.

of the previous year. I think the scale of the problem

:20:56.:21:00.

is genuinely unprecedented. But when we are told that MI5 has

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500 active investigations involving 3000 subjects of interest and also

:21:05.:21:13.

has a vast pool of some 20,000 people who they can't

:21:14.:21:19.

focus on at the moment, about whom there have been concerns

:21:20.:21:23.

and who they would like to go back to look at if time and resources

:21:24.:21:26.

allow, this is pretty serious. One of the things which I guess

:21:27.:21:31.

pains us most about recent incidents is the way these

:21:32.:21:34.

terrorists are home-grown. And it gives me no pleasure to say,

:21:35.:21:40.

in the diocese where I serve, which covers five east London

:21:41.:21:44.

boroughs and the whole of the county of Essex, in the work I do,

:21:45.:21:47.

visiting communities, often visiting young people,

:21:48.:21:49.

many young people do feel disenfranchised,

:21:50.:21:56.

overlooked, do not have the opportunities

:21:57.:21:58.

that we would wish them to have. Lady Lane-Fox, a high

:21:59.:22:07.

profile internet pioneer, said those writing laws

:22:08.:22:09.

about the internet first How will we ensure we make the right

:22:10.:22:11.

decisions if our parliamentarians do not have the experience

:22:12.:22:21.

from which to understand I find it hard and I have devoted my

:22:22.:22:24.

life to the technology sector. I believe the gap between

:22:25.:22:28.

innovations driving the pace of change in citizens'

:22:29.:22:30.

lives and the ability of policymakers to keep up is one

:22:31.:22:32.

of the most pressing Lady Lane-Fox suggested

:22:33.:22:35.

parliamentary education programmes. She said understanding the issues

:22:36.:22:40.

around cyber-secuirty was vital. Over a year ago, an anti-corruption

:22:41.:22:44.

summit was held in London. The Government promised a strategy

:22:45.:22:48.

to tackle corruption But along came Brexit,

:22:49.:22:50.

and then the general election. A Liberal Democrat in the House

:22:51.:22:56.

of Lords is worried that, in a Brexit world, the issue has

:22:57.:22:59.

fallen down the agenda. There are voices around that suggest

:23:00.:23:11.

that Brexit is an opportunity for Britain to hoist the Jolly Roger and

:23:12.:23:18.

to book a year its way around the world with scant regard to things

:23:19.:23:23.

like bribery or money laundering. So isn't it time the Government sent

:23:24.:23:27.

out a clear message that it's a beacon of integrity in these matters

:23:28.:23:32.

by bringing forward this strategy, by giving a vote of confidence in

:23:33.:23:39.

the Serious Fraud Office, and by finding a new anti-corruption

:23:40.:23:47.

campaign to succeed the one that has now departed the other place? Those

:23:48.:23:53.

are the challenges that would make us a beacon of integrity rather than

:23:54.:23:58.

the other way. There are a number of questions. Firstly, he is right, the

:23:59.:24:02.

deadline has been missed. We hope to publish the updated strategy by

:24:03.:24:08.

December last year. There was some turbulence in Whitehall following

:24:09.:24:10.

the outcome of the referendum... LAUGHTER

:24:11.:24:15.

And then in March, when the ministerial group met to consider

:24:16.:24:18.

the draft strategy, there was further discontinuity with the

:24:19.:24:23.

general election. However, a near final draft of the document is being

:24:24.:24:26.

prepared and we hope to publish it shortly. On the anti-corruption

:24:27.:24:31.

campaign, there have been a series of these, there was Hilary Benn,

:24:32.:24:36.

Jack Straw, Ken Clarke, Eric pickles was the last. But with the election,

:24:37.:24:40.

Sir Eric is no longer a member of Parliament. We helped appoint a new

:24:41.:24:46.

champion discourse. On the point about the Jolly Roger, I prefer the

:24:47.:24:50.

union Jack. But he is right, this country has a reputation for

:24:51.:24:54.

integrity and fairness. Throughout the world. And that helped us win

:24:55.:25:03.

export orders are helps us win investment, in a recent analysis of

:25:04.:25:07.

integrity, the UK was ranked joint tenth out of 176 on the transparency

:25:08.:25:12.

International corruption perceptions index. He's quite right, we value

:25:13.:25:18.

our reputation we are determined to maintain it and enhance after

:25:19.:25:19.

Brexit. Alicia McCarthy will be

:25:20.:25:21.

here for the rest of the week. But from me, Kristiina

:25:22.:25:26.

Cooper, goodbye!

:25:27.:25:31.