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This his Newsbeat debates. I am Tina Daheley and we are live in radio | :00:00. | :00:24. | |
one's Live Lounge tonight for a special debate about cannabis. | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
Tonight, we are asking the question should cannabis be legal in the UK? | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
We will look at the arguments before and against and we will also take a | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
look at what Britain can learn about the way the law works in other parts | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
of Europe. Over the next 60 minutes we will hear from an audience of | :00:42. | :00:51. | |
specialist guests. We have the crime artist. Hello. Doctor Aisha and | :00:52. | :01:04. | |
sharing. And Rick Bradley from a national charity supporting people | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
around substance use and mental health. We also have some Radio 1 | :01:08. | :01:15. | |
listeners with us. Hello! We also want to hear from you tonight. | :01:16. | :01:21. | |
Should cannabis be legal in the UK. You can text us, to eat at BBC | :01:22. | :01:29. | |
Newsbeat and we are using the hashtag Newsbeat debates. First, | :01:30. | :01:39. | |
Newsbeat reporter Jim Connelly is with me. You have been looking into | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
this subject for a Newsbeat documentary. Just remind us where we | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
currently stand in the UK when it comes to the legality of cannabis? | :01:49. | :01:55. | |
Cannabis is the UK's most popular illegal drug. We have 2 million | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
people admitting using it. It is a class B drug and the government are | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
at and it will remain that way. They will not change the law because they | :02:06. | :02:12. | |
say it causes harm to users and wider society. If you're caught with | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
it in possession you can face up to five years in prison, dealing it or | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
growing you can face up to 14 years in prison. That is where we stand | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
currently. The government say no chance of any change. You have | :02:24. | :02:33. | |
looked at the science of the drug and also been out with a cannabis | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
club who claim record membership and insist the drug causes less trouble | :02:40. | :02:41. | |
than alcohol. When cannabis is grown it releases | :02:42. | :03:06. | |
substances. THC is blamed for the mental health issues. Depending on | :03:07. | :03:14. | |
the genetics of the plant you can have a high THC knows CBD strain or | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
you could have it the other way round or something more balanced. | :03:20. | :03:30. | |
There are three main types of product. Herbal, hash or high | :03:31. | :03:42. | |
potency cannabis often called skunk. It has high levels of THC and almost | :03:43. | :03:55. | |
no CBD. Some say it is the lack of CBD which can lead to mental health | :03:56. | :04:03. | |
problems. My first stop is Brighton to meet Rob. He is the chair of the | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
Brighton cannabis club. He is campaigning for a change in the law. | :04:08. | :04:15. | |
Basically we are visiting a club. It is fully medicated. The meal is | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
cannabis infused which will get you high. This is all about taking rocks | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
of cannabis. It is a rainy drizzly day on the seaside, a lot of people | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
will go to the pub at lunchtime, why not have a pint? We believe cannabis | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
is a less harmful alternative to smoking tobacco or drinking alcohol. | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
Where are we going? I cannot tell you the exact location. It is a | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
restaurant in Brighton which will allow you some medicated products if | :04:51. | :04:59. | |
you are a Brighton cannabis club member. That sounds a bit dodgy. | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
In the kitchen some chefs have been hard at work knocking up some food. | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
It looks pretty impressive, to be honest, and I -- to be honest it is | :05:10. | :05:21. | |
not the site the of food you would expect in Amsterdam. The chef behind | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
it has worked in some top restaurants. This is not what they | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
will be putting in all the food. This green stuff is genuinely a | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
dressing. The food will be infused with an oil that goes through it and | :05:35. | :05:37. | |
that is where the cannabis will be. What is on the menu today? It will | :05:38. | :05:46. | |
be corn-fed chicken Boo Johns then grilled sea bream fill it -- | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
this is a bit strange because we sat here and it is quite a civilised | :05:52. | :06:17. | |
event. The government would say what you're doing is illegal and it is | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
illegal because of the harm it can do to you, your friends and wider | :06:22. | :06:29. | |
society. Why are you doing this? We believe the information is outdated | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
and research is outdated. If you look at Spain, Portugal, Canada and | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
America, they all forward progressive forward-thinking | :06:39. | :06:46. | |
policies. We are looking at what it can do for the industry. You are | :06:47. | :06:58. | |
representing Brighton Cannabis Club, how popular is the club? We have 400 | :06:59. | :07:07. | |
members. We have 40,000 Instagram followers and 6000 Facebook likes. | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
At one of our outdoor events it is growing year-on-year. In the first | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
year we only had 100 people turn up to it and then 1000 people in the | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
next year. We had over 3000 people attending and 25,000. -- 25 stalls. | :07:23. | :07:34. | |
Sitting here watching these guys, it all looks normal but what they are | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
doing is illegal and they could be arrested. But should weed, cannabis, | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
call it what you want, be illegal? That is the question we are asking | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
today. Should it be illegal in the UK? You can get in touch and I want | :07:51. | :08:00. | |
to get your reaction to what we have just been hearing. Is a cannabis | :08:01. | :08:08. | |
infused meal just an excuse to eat we'd? Hello, I am a pharmacist in | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
the north-west will stop pharmacists are the experts in medicines and | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
acts the high street and I would be so sad to see any legalisation of | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
this and for it to become more widely available. My concern is it | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
would lead to considering other drugs because they would be exposed | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
to the illegal black market areas of getting hold of the drugs. You think | :08:33. | :08:39. | |
it would be a gateway drug? Yes. The other problem is the NHS is under so | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
much strain at the moment and we have a mental health crisis. People | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
who need mental health services cannot get access for weeks. I do | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
not want more people to be suffering. We know this drug can | :08:54. | :09:00. | |
cause psychosis which means delusions, hallucinations, anxiety | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
and it can cause depression in some people. Do I want to be allowing | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
that on our high street for people? Absolutely not. Who disagrees with | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
that view? I will come to this lady at the back. I am Zoe McLeod, a | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
student at Nottingham University. Reaction to the film first of all? | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
It is an interesting and set because a lot of people struggle with | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
smoking so it is an alternative, but in terms of the pharmaceutical use, | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
I suffer from epilepsy personally, and I have been reading a lot of | :09:36. | :09:42. | |
evidence about weed and cannabis oil with people with the same problem as | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
me. I have been lots of stories of people in America are giving it to | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
their children. There has been a lot of evidence to suggest it can treat | :09:52. | :09:58. | |
PTSD, anxiety and insomnia. Who is giving you that evidence? It is more | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
anecdotal but I think if we legalised it there would be more | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
time to check if these things are true. We are hearing claims about | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
the medical impact, how it can help certain conditions. Aisha, you are a | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
doctor, what do you think? I understand there is controversy | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
about whether it can help PTSD and certain other illnesses. My response | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
to that, unfortunately, the evidence has not been overwhelming in favour | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
of cannabis achieving some of these things. But the proviso is, and I'm | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
going to declare I am sitting in the middle. I am not strongly in favour | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
or against but I do think we need more high-quality research in this | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
area to make it a good decision for everyone. Rick, you work for the | :10:48. | :11:00. | |
drug and alcohol addiction charity, Adaction. Tell us about your | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
experiences. We work nationwide with young people. Within our young | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
people's services at the age of 18, probably two thirds or three | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
quarters of those who are seeking support to cut down or stop use is | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
in relation to cannabis. There are clear risks. We are not talking | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
about overdoses but an impact on education, on jobs, on motivation, | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
on relationships, on debt. You have issues around psychological | :11:32. | :11:34. | |
dependence for some people and we have had mention of some mental | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
health conditions. What we have to size is the vast majority of young | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
people across who use cannabis do not have those problems. It is | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
relevant for some people but not for others. When it comes to our | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
position in terms of the law, we are very much in favour of | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
decriminalisation for personal use. White? If you are criminalising | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
young people you just add an additional are. Is it appropriate | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
for a young person who is 15 or 16, they have been caught with a small | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
amount of weed and then they have a record which can impact on jobs, | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
education and travel. You have a stigma which is attached by society | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
and also themselves. Recently we had a young person we were working with | :12:21. | :12:23. | |
who got caught buying a small amount of cannabis from a group of friends. | :12:24. | :12:35. | |
They have now got a criminal record and he classes himself as a drug | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
dealer. He said, that is not who I am. You have got a lot of stigma | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
attached. What we need to do is set aside the funds from the courts and | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
the criminal justice system and focusing on it as a health issue, | :12:48. | :12:49. | |
ploughing money which can be diverted from those processes into | :12:50. | :12:56. | |
an additional area. We always hear about decriminalisation and | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
legalisation, cannabis being legalised keeps coming up. Where do | :13:01. | :13:08. | |
we stand? What do they mean? It is really important to define those | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
terms. Decriminalisation would be the removal of sanctions for | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
possession. Whether it would be no sanction at all or an administrative | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
penalty. That someone who would be found with cannabis on them? There | :13:23. | :13:29. | |
is national guidance which a small amount of possession should be | :13:30. | :13:36. | |
defined by no criminal record. Those not available for Andrei teams. If | :13:37. | :13:42. | |
you are talking about protecting young people, they are at risk of a | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
criminal record. And when we talk about legalisation, we're not | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
talking about a free for all on the high Street, what we are talking | :13:51. | :13:59. | |
about is the term regulation, so a controlled market. That is | :14:00. | :14:01. | |
government-controlled and you know what is in the drug so you don't | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
have the issue of those high potency THC strains. I want to bring in | :14:06. | :14:14. | |
Greg. A cannabis infused meal, is that going too far? Not at all. It | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
is a safer way to consume cannabis. Myself and other members of the club | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
are medical uses. Ingesting it that way is a safer way of using it. When | :14:26. | :14:34. | |
you say medical, what do you mean? I have Crohn's disease. My immune | :14:35. | :14:36. | |
system is attacking my digestive system. I was put on a lot of | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
different pharmaceutical drugs, 16 in total. A lot of them are opiates, | :14:43. | :14:49. | |
anti-inflammatory is and they are to try and control my immune system and | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
take it back to zero. It did not work, it made me very ill. They | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
thought they had to take my intestines out and give me a | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
colostomy bag. I would have been fed through a straw into an artery and | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
they gave me five years to live. I have outlived that by two years now. | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
Cannabis is what I chose to use as my medicine. I went to Colorado and | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
got medical cannabis oil which is legal out there. I saw how the | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
medical industry works and I got access to good quality medicine and | :15:23. | :15:34. | |
I have come back to the UK and I have continued using it and I am a | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
healthy person. You have put the fact that use survived down to | :15:38. | :15:39. | |
medicinal use of cannabis? My doctor said what had happened? I was not in | :15:40. | :15:42. | |
a bid with a walking stick. I want to get reaction from you. I | :15:43. | :15:54. | |
want to say that is an amazing story and I am happy your Crohn's disease | :15:55. | :16:01. | |
is in remission. My perspective is unfortunately when we look at bigger | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
numbers, sometimes there are vulnerable people and it unmasks the | :16:06. | :16:08. | |
tendency to have the negative effects. That is something I see | :16:09. | :16:15. | |
every day when I am working in practice. I see families. That would | :16:16. | :16:21. | |
be my fear, that you have used it is a sensible and controlled manner, | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
but whether there are some people because of their vulnerability and | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
maybe the family structure, they would not have that guidance. Greg's | :16:29. | :16:38. | |
experience, he says it has helped to save his life, what about that? | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
There are anecdotal cases like this and I would ask we have more | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
research. High quality, large studies to show. We already use in | :16:48. | :16:57. | |
the NHS some cannabinoid derived drugs. But unfortunately the use is | :16:58. | :17:03. | |
limited. We use it for the treatment of multiple sclerosis. There is a | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
case to use it more widely in some other diseases and I understand | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
Crohn's disease is one we will look into. Glaucoma, even HIV. You were | :17:13. | :17:23. | |
nodding. I would like to touch on THC. It is a big problem that | :17:24. | :17:34. | |
psychokinesis is coming up now. -- psychosis. If you look at the | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
cannabis problem, you will see a lot of the psychosis is coming from high | :17:39. | :17:45. | |
levels of THC. This is happening because the weed, skunk, cannabis, | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
is not regulated and there is an underworld that grow things that | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
have not been tested. You would not go to the shop and pick up a can of | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
red liquid and just drink it if you did not know what was in it and that | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
is where we are with cannabis, we have no control. In the old days you | :18:06. | :18:13. | |
would smoke naturally grown weed and now it is grown in small | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
laboratories by people who do not know what they are doing and I have | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
seen it first hand from many different ages. Kids nowadays, they | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
are getting their hands on the skunk, street skunk, we like to call | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
it because it has no control over it. They smoke high levels of THC. | :18:34. | :18:40. | |
They are getting psychosis, because that is where the problem is. We | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
will come back to high potency cannabis. The meal we saw, when we | :18:45. | :18:52. | |
talk about attitudes towards cannabis and people smoking, does it | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
normalise it and this increase in cannabis clubs? On a basic one, the | :18:57. | :19:02. | |
first thing I would see from that meal is a safe intake. Education on | :19:03. | :19:09. | |
how to use cannabis is minimal. You cannot find anywhere in London a | :19:10. | :19:16. | |
leaflet given out how to use safely. If somebody is cooking cannabis and | :19:17. | :19:22. | |
eating it and they are not smoking, lighting fire and putting it into | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
their lungs and burning their lungs, that is a safer way to consume and | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
that is what people should look at, not the fact they are taking | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
cannabis, that is safer, and they will live longer. Let me get your | :19:35. | :19:40. | |
reaction to the cannabis meal. I have just graduated from the | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
University of Exeter and I am against legalisation of marijuana. | :19:46. | :19:48. | |
The meal is generally irresponsible. We have to point out the link with | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
psychosis. It looked like a lovely meal. Why is it a problem? It is | :19:55. | :20:01. | |
technically illegal and if any young person who did not know much about | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
weed went in there, they could potentially have harmful effects. | :20:06. | :20:13. | |
The key thing to establish is the link between psychosis and cannabis. | :20:14. | :20:21. | |
In early 2017, a study came out in America, an analysis of 10,000 | :20:22. | :20:27. | |
studies relating to marijuana and it showed conclusive and substantial | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
evidence between marijuana and psychosis. If you were to legalise | :20:31. | :20:40. | |
marijuana, and have many young people who are potentially naive and | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
do not know much about the effects of marijuana, that could be | :20:45. | :20:50. | |
damaging. Thomas, thank you. Kirsty, would somebody be arrested for | :20:51. | :20:57. | |
eating a cannabis meal? It is possession that is the offence so | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
technically you are in possession. But if you are eating bats. The | :21:02. | :21:08. | |
ingestion or taking of drugs is not illegal in this country -- if you | :21:09. | :21:14. | |
are eating that. The people providing the meal are technically | :21:15. | :21:17. | |
supplying the drug and so that is where the offence lies, and the | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
people eating the meal you are in possession of your plate of food. | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
Jim, what are people saying online? It is split. We have Ryan on Twitter | :21:26. | :21:33. | |
who says it is ridiculous it is not and alcohol is. Tom Bolt Facebook | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
says he does not smoke it but there are many people who do and it would | :21:38. | :21:44. | |
be daft not to. Kerry here says absolutely for medical purposes. | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
Against it, Tallulah, if you knew what cannabis could do you would | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
never dream of taking it, she says. David said never legalise it it | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
causes mental-health problems. Another said it is a gateway drug. | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
And Charles said I hope you will talk about the differences between | :22:02. | :22:07. | |
cannabis and skunk because skunk causes the problems. We will be. | :22:08. | :22:14. | |
Remember you can keep your comments coming in. Should cannabis be legal | :22:15. | :22:22. | |
in the UK? You can send a text. H 1199. You can tweet to Newsbeat and | :22:23. | :22:30. | |
use the hashtag Newsbeat debates. -- eight 1199. We have been talking to | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
attitudes here, how does it work in other places? There is a massive | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
shift across the world to cannabis. The best example is North America. | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
If you look at the USA, you have eight states legalised and more than | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
half have moved to decriminalisation for medical use. Next year, Canada | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
will legalise. Uruguay has done the same. In Europe it is patchy. More | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
changeable. We have countries with strict laws and countries like | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
Portugal who have more relaxed laws and have decriminalised. You went to | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
Portugal and Sweden to look into this. Two countries with different | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
approaches. Sweden, despite having a reputation for being liberal has | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
some of the toughest drug laws in arguably the world. This is the | :23:24. | :23:29. | |
minister in charge of policy. In Sweden we have broad political | :23:30. | :23:35. | |
supporting government and parliament for a drug-free society. At the | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
heart of your policy is the idea cannabis is a gateway drug. Why do | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
you hold that policy so close? We see especially among young people | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
and also study show that extensive use of cannabis, regular use of | :23:50. | :23:57. | |
cannabis at an early age, also affects especially young | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
people'sbrains. While many Swedish people agree with the government | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
strict policy, plenty do not. Alexander is a bit of a celebrity, a | :24:07. | :24:13. | |
former musician and now a judge on Sweden's. Talent. Essentially Sweden | :24:14. | :24:19. | |
is the Saudi Arabia of drugs in Europe because in Sweden we had the | :24:20. | :24:24. | |
idea we have a government, socialist, conservative, but it | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
would spin aggressive anti-drugs policy. Sweden with a drug policy | :24:29. | :24:35. | |
and culture surrounding drugs it is changing fast. We came here because | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
people say it is the strictest country in Europe, but your argument | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
is it might be stripped from politicians, but lots of young | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
people are moving away from that and their attitudes are changing? | :24:50. | :24:56. | |
Totally. Policy in Sweden, aggressive anti-drugs stance, it is | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
an anomaly in Swedish culture. Sweden is liberal about sex for | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
example. This aggressive conservative stance concerning drugs | :25:06. | :25:08. | |
is kind of an anomaly. Swedish drug policy has been about the gateway | :25:09. | :25:15. | |
drug. Cannabis seen as a gateway drug, all of your drug policy is | :25:16. | :25:21. | |
based on this philosophy. A lot of people still believe that to be the | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
case. We spoke to the head of police. We spoke to MPs. They say | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
that is still the case. Why do you think it is different? It turned out | :25:31. | :25:38. | |
to be alive, it is not true. Ironically some people starts with | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
LSD and then smoke cannabis. If I come back in five years, will it be | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
different, a legalised system? They are differentiating between drugs | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
and recreational use and not addictive. We have the other | :25:53. | :25:55. | |
category which is addictive drugs that are destructive will stop I do | :25:56. | :26:01. | |
not see we would legalise those. We would have a more advanced and | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
civilised debate on how we deal with addiction in itself and I think | :26:06. | :26:08. | |
Sweden could be at the forefront of that. Later that evening I found two | :26:09. | :26:15. | |
friends who had different views on cannabis. It is like with alcohol, I | :26:16. | :26:24. | |
think it should be is prohibited as with alcohol. I do not see the | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
difference between. Your off-licences are regulated. That is | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
how you would like to treat weed? I think so. You can have a beer or | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
glass of wine, pairing with food and wine and beer, but when it comes to | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
drugs, it is just drugs. You think they should be banned? Yes, | :26:46. | :26:54. | |
absolutely. Is that the solution? It is a generation question. The | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
younger ones smoke more. Have you smoked? Yes, I have. But you would | :27:00. | :27:06. | |
not do it in front of her? She loves me anyway. The Swedish approach on | :27:07. | :27:13. | |
paper is not 1 million miles from the laws in the UK, but my next stop | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
is somewhere with a different approach. 16 years ago Portugal took | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
a bold step to decriminalise all drugs. While it does not mean they | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
have been legalise, it means if you are stocked with a small amount of | :27:29. | :27:31. | |
anything from cannabis to her when you are treated as if you have a | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
medical problem rather than criminal. This doctor designed the | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
system. It started from a catastrophic position. We had one of | :27:41. | :27:47. | |
the highest rates of problematic drugs used in Europe by the late | :27:48. | :27:53. | |
1990s. It was almost impossible to find a Portuguese family with no | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
problems in connection with drugs. We decided to try a new approach. We | :27:57. | :28:06. | |
are happy. 15, 16 years later we can look back and say we have a lot of | :28:07. | :28:13. | |
improvement in the consequences of drug use in Portugal. Chatting to | :28:14. | :28:19. | |
people in Lisbon it is clear and most seem to think the government | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
has got it right when it comes to the more liberal, medical approach | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
to drugs. But, as with these things, not everyone agrees. We are heading | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
out of the city to meet a guy who runs his own drugs clinic. The | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
interesting thing about him, he thinks it's gone a little bit too | :28:39. | :28:46. | |
far. Carlos, nice to meet you. Carlos has been working to help | :28:47. | :28:52. | |
users for over 30 years and runs a residential rehab centre. What is it | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
about the Portuguese system you think has overstepped the mark? We | :28:57. | :29:04. | |
need more restrictive measures because it is too easy for | :29:05. | :29:10. | |
youngsters to get strokes. As we walked around, we have seen clearly | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
people dealing in the streets in certain areas. That is because in | :29:15. | :29:20. | |
your mind they are allowed to carry quite a lot of drugs, so it is an | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
easy cover, you can say it is for me. That is the main problem. I must | :29:26. | :29:34. | |
clarify, I am in favour of decriminalisation. I am not against | :29:35. | :29:41. | |
it. The real problem is the business that is behind all of this movement. | :29:42. | :29:47. | |
Clients, they want to have a good time when they start consuming | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
drugs, but afterwards, the good time becomes a nightmare. 23-year-old | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
Andreas showed me around the centre. He has been here six months. At | :29:57. | :30:04. | |
first I had problems with hashish, cannabis. They were the first, then | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
I started going to parties and started to take amphetamines and | :30:10. | :30:17. | |
later when I was 16, 17, I started cocaine and that was bad for me, I'd | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
destroyed my life with that. A common path that people mention. It | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
is controversial, the idea of a gateway and you start with cannabis | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
and go on to other drugs. Do you see a link between cannabis use and your | :30:33. | :30:34. | |
later use in other drugs? Yes, because we get used to the | :30:35. | :30:45. | |
drugs and then they seemed to stop working and we need something | :30:46. | :30:52. | |
harder. How have drugs, specifically cannabis and other psychedelic drugs | :30:53. | :30:57. | |
affected your mental health? Cannabis has THC and psychotropics | :30:58. | :31:06. | |
that it really busts your head. I started having psychotic thoughts | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
and I ended in the hospital because I heard noises in my head and that | :31:11. | :31:16. | |
was very bad. When I walk in the streets I have always the feeling | :31:17. | :31:19. | |
that someone is stalking me and I need to hide and run. Then here I | :31:20. | :31:29. | |
started to take the right pills and medication to heal myself and it is | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
working and I am grateful to that. While possession of drugs is not a | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
crime in Portugal, users caught with small amounts of substances could be | :31:39. | :31:45. | |
sent to a hearing to assess their drug problem. This is the waiting | :31:46. | :31:53. | |
room. These are the rooms where we have the preliminary interview | :31:54. | :31:56. | |
before the hearing stage. This is the room where we are having their | :31:57. | :32:03. | |
hearing now. Ricardo has been given an appointment after being caught | :32:04. | :32:06. | |
with a few joints at a music festival. He has agreed to let us | :32:07. | :32:12. | |
record his hearing. I heard the word hashish. He was caught with some | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
cannabis? He was caught with a small amount of power sheesh, a cannabis | :32:18. | :32:29. | |
derivative. For a offence we have a suspended period of three months and | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
if he's not caught in that period we will close it. After the hearing I'm | :32:33. | :32:42. | |
keen to have a chat with Ricardo to see what he thinks of the dissuasion | :32:43. | :32:48. | |
caught. We will not film your face. Do you think this process of | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
chatting with a psychologist and a drug drug worker has helped to? For | :32:54. | :33:01. | |
now I will stop, I don't need it. And the systems important goal, I | :33:02. | :33:08. | |
think it is the best. -- and the system in Portugal. That was | :33:09. | :33:17. | |
fascinating and quite an experience. Everything about this is weird. The | :33:18. | :33:23. | |
building, not a court in the sense that you would know back home. The | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
whole experience was very relaxed, very informal and we saw a guy going | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
through that case and at the end of it saying I will not smoke weed | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
again. Surely, for the authorities here, that is a success in their | :33:38. | :33:43. | |
system? So two very different ways of | :33:44. | :33:46. | |
dealing with the legalisation of cannabis there. We have been getting | :33:47. | :33:49. | |
a huge reaction online and on texts as well. Keep them coming, 81199 is | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
the text number. Tweet at BBC Newsbeat. Make sure you give us your | :33:56. | :34:01. | |
name when we read out your messages. Opinion is divided. We have had | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
hundreds of texts. Tom in Tamworth says he thinks the government goes | :34:07. | :34:10. | |
over the top when it comes to cannabis stroke weed. It can help a | :34:11. | :34:17. | |
lot of people of America have shown. Another person said they were | :34:18. | :34:20. | |
introduced cannabis and ended up being sectioned. His personal | :34:21. | :34:26. | |
experience is cannabis is dangerous when it is used recreationally. It | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
is obviously split. What can we learn from Europe. You have been to | :34:32. | :34:38. | |
Amsterdam? I'm a student at Loughborough University. I went to | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
Amsterdam and had a really crazy trip. I was there with a few friends | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
and we were enjoying ourselves, going a bit over the top but what I | :34:47. | :34:52. | |
learned literally if it is about understanding what you use. Like you | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
can go over the top drinking your first time, you can go over the top | :34:57. | :35:05. | |
smoking. I feel at times people like to use the negative things about | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
marijuana and cannabis and saying he is having a trip, he must be really | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
bad but we see drunk people out every weekend. But aren't you | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
worried that if it is legalised it can be regulated but if you are | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
buying stuff in Amsterdam legitimately and you had a bad trip, | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
doesn't that worry you? Not really. Mainly because I am on holiday! | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
LAUGHTER To be honest, I am on holiday. It | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
was worrying. Tell us what happened. I was on a tram. I was thinking what | :35:42. | :35:54. | |
is going on? Everyone is speaking Dutch, what is going on? And you | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
want to feel like that on holiday? No, but the next day you learn from | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
it. It is a learning experience for me that day in the sense of when you | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
don't understand something, that is what can happen. I'm coming from a | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
background in the UK where it is pushed away, no one speaks about it | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
and I have gone abroad and it has happened. I did not see any of the | :36:17. | :36:23. | |
locals, that happening to them, they are used to it, it is part of the | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
culture. I come from a culture here when you feel bad speaking about | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
cannabis. It was four years ago, I was about 18 years old. I was a | :36:32. | :36:38. | |
younger man and not very confident. I think we need to open up the | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
culture because at the end of the day, if we continue to treat people | :36:43. | :36:45. | |
like criminals for doing something which 2 million people in the UK do, | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
is that 2 million criminals? Good question. At the moment, yes. Rick, | :36:52. | :36:59. | |
what is your response to Yinka's trip in Amsterdam? I think he makes | :37:00. | :37:02. | |
some really good points, particularly about the openness to | :37:03. | :37:08. | |
substances. Our organisation Addaction is to keep people safe and | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
in the wider community. Sometimes we get some slightly strange looks when | :37:14. | :37:17. | |
we talk about openly discussing the fact that people will use substances | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
and people might enjoy their experiences. Obviously, a lot of | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
people may be do not have positive experiences as well. If we are | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
effectively stopped from having open discussions around these things in | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
schools, and I am not talking necessarily about substance specific | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
information about THC and CBD. You will not go in and do an assembly | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
about these things: that would be irresponsible, but we need to have a | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
chat earlier discussions about decision-making and risky | :37:49. | :37:51. | |
behaviours. We need to support young people to make positive choices and | :37:52. | :37:54. | |
to speak to young people who can guide them. We have had Sony | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
cutbacks around pastoral services and youth services. -- we have had | :38:01. | :38:03. | |
so many cutbacks. And on the point of the video, if you take Portugal | :38:04. | :38:09. | |
and decriminalisation, there has not been a massive rise in drug use. | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
There has been a big deep crease in some associated health problems. | :38:14. | :38:16. | |
They have been able to reallocate funds which would have gone to the | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
justice system into health and education. If we can do that in this | :38:22. | :38:24. | |
country and have open debates like we are having here, that will surely | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
be a much better way of moving forward? I want to bring in George | :38:30. | :38:35. | |
into the discussion. What do you do? We are drug policy ink tank and we | :38:36. | :38:41. | |
look at drug issues in particular cannabis. What are the issues are | :38:42. | :38:47. | |
buying cannabis legally? This is the interesting thing. I think it is | :38:48. | :38:53. | |
saddening how little the debate has moved on in the UK. Those are the | :38:54. | :38:59. | |
questions we should be asking. Instead we have people talking about | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
the Gateway issue. Just to be clear it is not true. So if you start | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
smoking cannabis it will lead to other things? It is proven beyond | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
any reasonable doubt that cannabis use at a young age is not a reliable | :39:14. | :39:19. | |
indicator of later life problematic use with so-called hard drugs. | :39:20. | :39:27. | |
Proven by who? There is extensive research. I will show you afterwards | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
but it would be boring to go through. The issue indicator of | :39:31. | :39:37. | |
whether someone would develop more problematic drug use in later life | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
is their family and social circumstances. Heroin is a | :39:43. | :39:45. | |
painkiller. People use it to treat trauma and severe pain. We need to | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
look at the problems around druggies which are issues around addiction | :39:50. | :39:56. | |
which stem from other wider societal use -- problems around druggies. | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
Cannabis does not lead you down a dark path into Herod then -- heroin | :40:02. | :40:11. | |
use. How would it work to legalise cannabis? Could work in a number of | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
ways. In the Netherlands they have not change the law but they allow | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
decriminalisation which allows some people being able to sell it. I | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
think that is unsatisfactory. You do not have product testing which means | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
you do not have pesticides in there. You cannot control potency to | :40:30. | :40:33. | |
encourage people to use safer products. I think a better option is | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
what they are doing in Canada which is to set up a properly regulated | :40:38. | :40:43. | |
industry with extensive testing and safety, public messaging and safety | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
and awareness, tax revenues going to all sorts of things, whereby you can | :40:48. | :40:54. | |
slowly look at what products are acceptable, moving people towards | :40:55. | :40:57. | |
products which do not have as many carcinogens as smoking, moving | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
people towards eating like in the Brighton cannabis club. There are | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
ways cannabis can be used which are safer than other ways. At the moment | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
it is a choice between alcohol and substance will stop Jim, you went to | :41:12. | :41:17. | |
Portugal, what was it like? Are there problems? There is a danger of | :41:18. | :41:24. | |
creating a rose tinted view of the Portuguese system. We spent some | :41:25. | :41:27. | |
time in a fairly rough part of the city and there were problems with | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
heroin addicts. There was a serious problem of entrenched drug use is | :41:33. | :41:35. | |
still existing bearing the idea that this money will be refunded to help | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
people is not true. There are a lot of people in the country who need | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
help for drug problems and they are not getting it. The other thing | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
which is stark and shocking is you see a lot of open drug use and open | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
drug dealing. And not just talking about cannabis. We are talking about | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
crack at it in basically the equivalent of Trafalgar Square in | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
London. In Lisbon couple of streets away you have people dealing etc. | :42:03. | :42:08. | |
That is what you need to remember. There are positives to the | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
Portuguese system but there are a definitely negatives. So crack | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
addicts on the street. If you are listening, what do you think? I just | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
want to make the point with regard to Gateway drug use, I just want to | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
mention that it puts you in that environment where you look at this | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
drug and then that one is available because that person is using it. I | :42:34. | :42:39. | |
just want to point out as well millennials are even more | :42:40. | :42:41. | |
health-conscious and care about their bodies more than probably past | :42:42. | :42:47. | |
generations so maybe they are more interested in vegetables than grass | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
at this stage. I see a lot of people who are steroid users for example | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
who come into the pharmacy for needles. There is a whole | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
conversation around that. Is it going to open up a whole new area of | :42:59. | :43:06. | |
public health we have to fund went there have already been cuts in | :43:07. | :43:08. | |
sexual health and also the methadone and needle exchange area. Can you | :43:09. | :43:14. | |
pass your microphone to Hannah? I am an award. I had a similar experience | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
in Amsterdam. I did not take any weed myself that it completely | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
changed my opinion. The culture shock first of all because it was so | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
readily available. What was your thoughts first of all? I never | :43:30. | :43:31. | |
wanted to try it because I was scared of it but going to a place | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
where it was so available, it is so interesting. I think now if I was | :43:37. | :43:39. | |
going to try it I would rather have that than a cigarette because | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
cigarettes are one of the biggest killers in our society. It is so | :43:44. | :43:52. | |
much more dangerous to have a cigarette and it is hypocritical to | :43:53. | :43:54. | |
have legalised cigarettes and not cannabis which is more harmful. | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
Touching on the cigarettes which are important points, I think cigarettes | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
are also leading to psychosis because people who are smoking skunk | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
with high levels of THC, they are mixing up with tobacco and what they | :44:07. | :44:13. | |
are doing is they are smoking over the amount of skunk they should be | :44:14. | :44:20. | |
smoking because they are addicted to the cigarette and not the skunk. | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
They are putting tobacco in skunk and they keep making the skunk and | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
that is where the problem comes in. At this stage we are also denied all | :44:29. | :44:36. | |
talking that smoking cannabis and it is a class B drug addict carries a | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
five-year prison sentence for possession and up to 14 years for | :44:42. | :44:45. | |
supply and production. Jim, how is it looking online? We have Josh from | :44:46. | :44:53. | |
Wiltshire. He says cannabis should be legalised. It does much more good | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
than bad. Just compare it to alcohol. It can also do more for the | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
economy and take money away from the street gangs and dealers. The | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
counterargument is that what message are you giving to our children is | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
that it is addictive, harmful to mental health and it absolutely | :45:13. | :45:15. | |
stinks. Drugs have no place in our society and it should be abolished | :45:16. | :45:17. | |
with stiffer penalties. What is your response? As somebody | :45:18. | :45:29. | |
who goes all night drinking alcohol smells a lot, as well. There is a | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
problem again, organic cannabis does not smell like skunk. It is about | :45:36. | :45:42. | |
educating people on what's different cannabis there is and what | :45:43. | :45:47. | |
difference skunk and how to use it. I want to pick up on the point about | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
the gateway and access ability of other drugs. That is what we have | :45:53. | :45:56. | |
with the black market. You can go to a dealer and get cannabis and you | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
can get other drugs and did a regulated market that would be | :46:02. | :46:04. | |
controlled. At the moment young people do not need IDE to go to a | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
dealer. Jim said he saw people using crack on the streets of Portugal | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
where drugs are decriminalise. That is a wider issue but we should talk | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
about drugs consumption rooms. What about dissuasion committees, the | :46:20. | :46:23. | |
model in Portugal, would you back it? They are useful, distinguishing | :46:24. | :46:29. | |
between recreational use and if there is problematic use that | :46:30. | :46:32. | |
requires intervention, there is the availability of that. This is | :46:33. | :46:38. | |
Newsbeat debates live on radio one and the BBC News Channel. The | :46:39. | :46:43. | |
question, should cannabis be legal in the UK? Jim, you have talked | :46:44. | :46:49. | |
about people commenting online. Reaction is split. It is difficult | :46:50. | :46:56. | |
to talk about cannabis. Without talking about so-called skunk in | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
particular. What can you tell us? A word a lot of people pro-cannabis in | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
this room will not like. I imagine people do not like the word skunk. | :47:07. | :47:13. | |
Just to do a quick poll. A quick response. It is incorrectly used. I | :47:14. | :47:20. | |
explained who here, the government term of skunk is high THC cannabis | :47:21. | :47:28. | |
but that is also what the medical Dutch cannabis is. What we are going | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
to talk about now, call it what you Will it is high post and -- high | :47:34. | :47:41. | |
potency. There is a link between people susceptible to mental-health | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
problems at high levels of THC whether science is focusing and | :47:47. | :47:49. | |
where the debate is focusing. If people have just tuned in, ABC, THC, | :47:50. | :47:57. | |
the THC is the compound in cannabis that makes you high, and CBD is the | :47:58. | :48:03. | |
bit that acts as anti-psychosis. It is a buffer. There is a lot of | :48:04. | :48:07. | |
research that needs to be done on the buffering. But we need to focus | :48:08. | :48:17. | |
on the high-level THC. Jim went to meet a father who has been directly | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
affected by high strength cannabis. We noticed there was something that | :48:23. | :48:26. | |
was becoming strange with Rupert a year ago. He was diagnosed with drug | :48:27. | :48:37. | |
induced psychosis. He was sectioned. What back row day in January, he | :48:38. | :48:45. | |
said to his mother that is the voices were getting stronger in his | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
head and he was scared. Two days later, he went out in the evening. | :48:50. | :48:59. | |
And he killed himself. Afterwards, I spoke to the doctors. Somebody said | :49:00. | :49:05. | |
in an offhand way, that this is yet another casualty of skunk. I said, | :49:06. | :49:13. | |
is that just... Cannabis must have changed. He said it is not really | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
cannabis you might have known, with the greatest respect, 40 years ago, | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
when you might have experimented. He said this is different stuff. I | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
looked it up on the internet. I was shocked to discover how strong this | :49:28. | :49:35. | |
variant of cannabis is. And as such, it is my belief that the way to | :49:36. | :49:43. | |
tackle skunk is to legalise the old-fashioned cannabis, so it has | :49:44. | :49:51. | |
the right balance of THC with CBD, and it has only a certain level of | :49:52. | :49:58. | |
potency. Lots of people listening will find it strange that a drug you | :49:59. | :50:03. | |
say killed your son, you are campaigning to legalise. I think | :50:04. | :50:09. | |
skunk has been labelled as cannabis, but it is not really. It is a | :50:10. | :50:16. | |
Frankenstein variant. Some would argue that your son may have had | :50:17. | :50:20. | |
underlying mental health issues and that is what led to him killing | :50:21. | :50:23. | |
himself and not the drug. Indeed, that has been put to me. I received | :50:24. | :50:32. | |
letters from people who read about Rupert's death. Come I read one? I | :50:33. | :50:38. | |
am so sad to read about the loss of your son Rupert. There are so many | :50:39. | :50:44. | |
parallels with the death of my son, who also had a history of mental | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
illness in the most part by smoking cannabis and skunk. Lord Monson has | :50:49. | :50:55. | |
received many letters containing stories similar to Rupert's. As we | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
go through them, his friend Louise arrives. She is a drug worker in | :51:01. | :51:04. | |
London and they have worked together on an approach to high potency | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
cannabis. You work with people who use different drugs. How does it | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
compare with someone who has a skunk problem? This will not be a popular | :51:15. | :51:20. | |
answer but I would say give me a room full of heroin addicts than | :51:21. | :51:24. | |
skunk addicts. If I think of my own sons, I remember saying to my | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
eldest, I would prefer you to take heroin than smoke skunk. He said, | :51:30. | :51:34. | |
you cannot say that! He does not work with the impact. Heroin and | :51:35. | :51:40. | |
crack, it does what it says on the tin. It is physical, emotional, | :51:41. | :51:47. | |
spiritual. Whereas skunk it is the psychotic aspect. Somebody has to | :51:48. | :51:52. | |
wake up and say there will be a generation of kids with severe | :51:53. | :51:58. | |
mental health issues, and with Nicklas's case, kids dying, and it | :51:59. | :52:03. | |
will not be a normal OD from heroin, it will be from suicide because they | :52:04. | :52:08. | |
cannot deal with the voices. It is the voices I work with. You say you | :52:09. | :52:15. | |
have had this correspondence with the Prime Minister and letters going | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
backwards and forwards. Recently in the latest government drugs | :52:21. | :52:23. | |
strategy, decriminalisation was mentioned briefly and dismissed as | :52:24. | :52:27. | |
not having enough evidence. I think the Liberal Democrats have embraced | :52:28. | :52:35. | |
my argument and I know there are many people in the Conservative | :52:36. | :52:38. | |
Party whom beforehand you would never have expected to embrace | :52:39. | :52:48. | |
counterintuitive initiatives such as the one I am suggesting. I think | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
there could be in the next five years, I hope, a change of heart | :52:52. | :52:55. | |
from the government, at least a green paper, I should imagine. Lord | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
Monson talking about his son's problems with cannabis and how he | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
wants to change the law. Does what you just heard scare you? Zoe | :53:05. | :53:13. | |
McLeod. I have had this with one of my extended family members who went | :53:14. | :53:19. | |
into psychosis and they blame dit upon his drug-taking. I think what | :53:20. | :53:23. | |
happened is terrible and what happened to my family member was | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
terrible, but I think fully criminalising because of it will not | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
do any good. You cannot stop people taking it, it is easy to get hold. | :53:34. | :53:40. | |
You need a phone number ?10. I think the most important thing is | :53:41. | :53:46. | |
education. And if we have this one we could have one that has a good | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
level of CBD. I think you are saying you are putting out a message to | :53:52. | :53:55. | |
younger kids it is almost harmless and OK to take and it is important | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
to establish the adolescent mind is still developing and is more | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
susceptible. Official statistics show people under the age of 15 who | :54:05. | :54:11. | |
take cannabis are four times more likely to develop psychosis later in | :54:12. | :54:15. | |
life and statistics show with cannabis usage in adolescence, you | :54:16. | :54:20. | |
are more likely to get psychosis. There are more secondary effects of | :54:21. | :54:28. | |
cannabis intake, for example, in Colorado, where they legalise | :54:29. | :54:35. | |
marijuana, the number of car accidents which were due to drivers | :54:36. | :54:38. | |
being under the influence of marijuana actually increased | :54:39. | :54:43. | |
massively. You are saying you do not think it is true. We do not have | :54:44. | :54:49. | |
long left. Chamakh I will come to you but before we do we are talking | :54:50. | :54:56. | |
about psychosis. It is an acute mental health disorder where you | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
lose connection with reality and it is a scary situation where the | :55:01. | :55:07. | |
victim does not realise they are unwell and they can do dangerous | :55:08. | :55:11. | |
things when they are unwell like this. Jammer, you have looked a high | :55:12. | :55:16. | |
potency cannabis. Were you surprised by what you found? What I found was | :55:17. | :55:26. | |
the level of THC and CBD in the skunk nowadays, in the wide range of | :55:27. | :55:31. | |
skunk you are getting, are imbalanced. I can tell you 20 years | :55:32. | :55:41. | |
ago, when people were smoking hashish, and normal weed grown in | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
natural light, we did not have this issue, it did not exist. You can see | :55:46. | :55:51. | |
the change in the skunk sold on the street and in the youth and how much | :55:52. | :55:59. | |
psychosis we have in England. Working in the music industry, what | :56:00. | :56:02. | |
effect do you think high potency cannabis has on artists? High | :56:03. | :56:11. | |
potency cannabis is also medicated cannabis as the fellow there was | :56:12. | :56:16. | |
saying, but that is in a regulated environments, where you are taught | :56:17. | :56:22. | |
how to use it. Higher THC skunk on the street, given to just a kid who | :56:23. | :56:27. | |
does not know what is inside it, smoking it with a cigarette, that is | :56:28. | :56:31. | |
smoking excessive amounts of skunk because they are addicted to | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
cigarettes. What about it boosting creativity? That is another debate. | :56:37. | :56:41. | |
Some people smoke and stop smoking and say it did not make a difference | :56:42. | :56:48. | |
in their music. There is a long history of creating with cannabis. | :56:49. | :56:52. | |
There is a lot of great musicians that have used cannabis and created, | :56:53. | :56:57. | |
but that is not the issue. The issue is people are getting in trouble | :56:58. | :57:02. | |
with street skunk and non-regulated skunk. Greg, you have smoked high | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
potency cannabis. Has it ever had the effect is Lord Monson was | :57:08. | :57:12. | |
talking about? Absolutely not. I have been on prescribed steroids and | :57:13. | :57:17. | |
opiates and I have had those reactions from those drugs. Maybe | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
they are not for everyone, either. If we look at the debate properly | :57:22. | :57:26. | |
and if we can regulate cannabis it takes it off the street and makes | :57:27. | :57:29. | |
the availability to vulnerable people more unlikely to happen. | :57:30. | :57:37. | |
Cannabis social clubs want to regulate cannabis and make it age | :57:38. | :57:44. | |
regulated. I know you say you are impartial, but what are your | :57:45. | :57:48. | |
concerns when it comes to high potency cannabis and mental health? | :57:49. | :57:54. | |
From my experience in south London I have seen devastation in vulnerable | :57:55. | :58:00. | |
families. I used to work in psychiatry, Denmark Hill, psychosis | :58:01. | :58:04. | |
is devastating for the individual and the families. It has | :58:05. | :58:08. | |
ramifications for the future. I would be worried. In simple terms, | :58:09. | :58:15. | |
the younger you are, the more you use, the stronger the strain, the | :58:16. | :58:19. | |
bigger the risk. If people are using we advise them to get support from | :58:20. | :58:25. | |
GPs, local drug service. We would definitely advise delayed use will | :58:26. | :58:33. | |
stop if people are talking about THC, that is talking about clinical | :58:34. | :58:37. | |
settings and the street stuff is not that in general. If anyone is | :58:38. | :58:44. | |
struggling with drug use, community pharmacies are on the high street, | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
available for everyone with no judgment. Visit us for support. | :58:49. | :58:54. | |
Thank you for taking part. If you are affected by any issues covered | :58:55. | :58:59. | |
tonight, there are details of organisations offering information | :59:00. | :59:03. | |
and support with addiction available at the BBC website action mind. And | :59:04. | :59:15. | |
you can call any time and we have tweeted a link to BBC advice on | :59:16. | :59:19. | |
cannabis. You can keep the conversation going online and watch | :59:20. | :59:29. | |
Cannabis: Time For A Change on BBC I play. Thanks for watching. | :59:30. | :59:32. |