Browse content similar to 11/08/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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leaders. The question is, where did the power go and is it too late to | :00:03. | :00:12. | |
Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, after days of rioting in English | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
cities, Parliament debates what's happened. But have they cast any | :00:16. | :00:19. | |
light on the issue and with thousands of police still on the | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
streets, what happens next? Also tonight: Is there any truth in the | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
idea that Scotland is somehow more left wing than England? | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
Good evening. Well, thousands of police - including many from | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
Scotland - are still on the streets of English cities tonight. | :00:33. | :00:36. | |
Parliament was robust in its condemnation, but are we any nearer | :00:36. | :00:45. | |
to solving the issue, or even to asking the right questions? | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
Hundreds of specialist police officers have been deployed from | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
Scotland's eight forces in support of colleagues in England and it is | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
right and proper that everything is provided to assist areas which have | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
been hit by rioting. Could the Prime Minister confirm what | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
conversations he or the Home Secretary have had with the | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
Scottish government about the support. I am not aware of any | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
conversations but what I am aware of is the excellent rolled the | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
Scottish police force played in helping the West Midlands force and | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
I saw the impact for myself in Birmingham and I think it is good | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
that our forces can co-operate in this way. The vast majority of the | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
people in Scotland share the anger and frustration of the victims of | :01:27. | :01:30. | |
these crimes but they are disappointed with the statement of | :01:30. | :01:35. | |
the First Minister that this was an English problem. I have to say that | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
people are extremely disappointed but I welcome the statement from | :01:38. | :01:43. | |
the Prime Minister that he has been taking advice from Strathclyde | :01:43. | :01:50. | |
Police. If the judicial system in Scotland took seriously the come -- | :01:50. | :01:56. | |
concerns of the police and impose sentences? I particularly admire | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
the work Strathclyde have done on gangs and I want to make sure we | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
learn that across the United Kingdom. | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
I'm joined from Edinburgh by George Kerevan, Editor-in-Chief of the | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
Newsnet Scotland website, and here in Glasgow by Ross Martin, Chief | :02:07. | :02:13. | |
Executive of the think tank the Centre for Scottish Public Policy. | :02:13. | :02:20. | |
Was that just a giant exhalation of hot air or was there any substance, | :02:20. | :02:26. | |
I mean the parliamentary debate? There was a police officer saying | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
it made not a jot of the operational decisions of the police | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
whether Parliament came back into power or not and I think he was | :02:33. | :02:37. | |
truly reflecting the separation between how police go about their | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
business and the lack of power politicians have. Some of them | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
might want to have more power over the police than they do. | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
mixture of political theatre and judicial action, if you like, it | :02:48. | :02:54. | |
does seem to be working, doesn't it? Everyone stands up, nations are | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
united, the very visible police arrests, saying if you are thinking | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
of going out this weekend, this is what will happen, it does seem to | :03:04. | :03:10. | |
be having an effect? But I'm not sure if politicians roaming the | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
streets and getting their pictures taken with clean-up squads with | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
brooms is actually changing the impact for those who might be | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
rioting. It is because the police have changed their tactic and are | :03:22. | :03:29. | |
going for a mirage -- a more robust method. I said I would never ask | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
anyone to make forecasts of what would happen but the fact is, we | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
still have 17,000 police on the streets of London and we have | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
thousands in Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham, it is quite | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
difficult to know how this will pan out? It may well be that the | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
weather means everyone gets fed up and that is the end of it but how | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
would you wind a situation like this down? Like you, I am loath to | :03:54. | :04:00. | |
make predictions. Sadly, right sorry fact of urban life and always | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
have been. They kind of follow a trajectory. They are short-lived, | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
unless there is a serious underlying problem which needs to | :04:08. | :04:16. | |
be resolved, writes tend to be short-lived. They tend to have a | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
detonator, the excitement of the two or three nights and then they | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
die down. There might be a flare-up at the weekend but IAA think the | :04:25. | :04:33. | |
worst is over. Do you think or we have seen over the last week it is | :04:33. | :04:41. | |
some sort of watershed event or, it is obviously important that it is | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
more widespread than anything we have seen, but do you think | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
politically or culturally it is a watershed event or will it take its | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
place in a long line of things which have happened? That is up to | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
the politicians. I disagree with Ross. It is important that the | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
politicians respond to the feeling there was over the weekend, that | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
the police have disappeared and this was allowed to happen and now | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
the politicians are back and they need to learn a lesson. I distance | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
myself a little from some of my SNP colleagues, you cannot say Scotland | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
could not be involved. It is young men who riot by and large, the | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
young men who do not go to university and do not have a career, | :05:26. | :05:32. | |
in the modern society, they are the bottom of the social heap. That is | :05:32. | :05:38. | |
a tinder. It does not excuse anybody to go out and write, and | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
personally I would have brought out the water cannon, but it is a | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
tinder. I'm curious as to whether you think this will be seen as a | :05:47. | :05:53. | |
watershed event. In a way that the riots in Brixton were in the 1980s? | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
I do not think so because there does not seem to be a clear reason | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
for the outbreak of violence and disorder in all the parts of | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
England. There seemed to be very localised different reasons which | :06:05. | :06:11. | |
have come together and boiled up and fermented into this mass action. | :06:11. | :06:18. | |
There is not a clear underlying cause. To blame the unrest on cuts | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
in educational maintenance allowance as some politicians were | :06:21. | :06:28. | |
trying to do, is complete rubbish. To try and attach it to elements of | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
social policy in that direction is completely wrong. Don't go away, | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
both of you, we will be back in a moment. | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
Now, the Guardian caused a flutter recently with a front page story | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
about plans by Ed Miliband to reduce the voting power of the | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
unions at the Labour conference. The Left immediately saw it as an | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
attempt to sideline trades unions as soon as Labour has spent their | :06:49. | :06:55. | |
money on an election. It coincided with the 40th anniversary of the | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
Upper Clyde Shipbuilders work IN and the establishment of a think | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
tank dedicated to the memory of Jimmy Reid. Derek Bateman asks if | :07:01. | :07:11. | |
:07:11. | :07:13. | ||
there's a revival of the Left. Scotland likes to portray itself as | :07:13. | :07:19. | |
a place connected to its working- class past, leading to a heightened | :07:19. | :07:29. | |
:07:29. | :07:32. | ||
sense of social solidarity. It is a romantic notion. And we will never | :07:32. | :07:38. | |
last unless you are giving the same solidarity you have been giving us | :07:38. | :07:44. | |
for the last 13 weeks. You help pass and we will keep on fighting. | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
Voting patterns certainly seemed to show we are a country of the broad | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
left. Labour and the SNP by for the upper hand. There remains a liberal | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
tradition also Socialists and Greens have been elected to | :07:56. | :08:02. | |
Holyrood and since 1987, the Tories have been in retreat. So why has | :08:02. | :08:12. | |
:08:12. | :08:12. | ||
there been a dearth of left ideas? Govan was the place to launch the | :08:12. | :08:22. | |
:08:22. | :08:24. | ||
think tank be Jimmy Reid Foundation. These are former shipyard workers. | :08:24. | :08:30. | |
I came because I was made aware of the Jimmy Reid Foundation. I was in | :08:30. | :08:40. | |
:08:40. | :08:40. | ||
the shipyards for 40 years continuously. IAA spent 40 years | :08:40. | :08:46. | |
working and I was a personal friend of Jimmy Reid and political and | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
social colleague of Jimmy Reid. think the idea of the Jimmy Reid | :08:51. | :08:57. | |
Foundation is excellent. I have been observing the left over the | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
years. There have been so many citizens. Ed Miliband is floating | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
the idea of limiting the unions' voting power at Labour conference. | :09:06. | :09:12. | |
A classic move against the left. Shades here of John Smith with one- | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
member, one-vote and Tony Blair closing-down Clause Four, steps | :09:16. | :09:26. | |
:09:26. | :09:31. | ||
which breed suspicion among Face see the unions as a bit of | :09:31. | :09:41. | |
:09:41. | :09:45. | ||
embarrassment. -- they see it the unions. The Labour Party leadership | :09:45. | :09:52. | |
always wants to marginalise the unions. The irony is if the Labour | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
Party leadership was a bit more minded to take the policies of the | :09:56. | :10:04. | |
unions at face value, the Labour Party's stance and marks the public | :10:04. | :10:09. | |
would increase. The unions do reflect the public, and the | :10:09. | :10:16. | |
ordinary people. Jimmy Reid may have provided that | :10:16. | :10:22. | |
the left with an impetus. Where is the letter today? Good question. I | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
am not sure, in terms of centre- left politics we do need to indulge | :10:28. | :10:34. | |
in ideas. We need to inspire people, debt collectors interested. We need | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
people to be talking about the future, talking about the problems | :10:38. | :10:48. | |
:10:48. | :10:49. | ||
of Scotland, individual communities. It is as if under the weight a | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
conventional politics the left has crumbled. We need to talk about | :10:53. | :11:02. | |
where we go as a country? If everything comes... A one would | :11:02. | :11:11. | |
hope. There is a very tribal nature. Where is the voice during the | :11:11. | :11:21. | |
:11:21. | :11:21. | ||
minimum pricing debate? Where is the alternative credible voice? | :11:21. | :11:27. | |
That is sometimes used as party lines. There is an irony in all | :11:27. | :11:33. | |
this. If every second cent since -- if they raise a consensus, it is | :11:33. | :11:40. | |
not on the right. Almost all of the credible political parties hold to | :11:40. | :11:50. | |
:11:50. | :11:50. | ||
the same sort of general be used. - - same sort of general abuse. | :11:50. | :11:56. | |
Centre politics is the dominant force in Scotland. Whilst the | :11:56. | :12:04. | |
centre parties are ideal free zones. There are people willing to talk | :12:04. | :12:11. | |
about different options. Is there a new opportunity for organised | :12:11. | :12:21. | |
:12:21. | :12:25. | ||
labour, through Jim Murphy for stop if unions are marginalised it would | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
just -- if the unions are marginalised it will affect the | :12:29. | :12:35. | |
Labour Party. Whilst it is a romantic notion, | :12:35. | :12:41. | |
Scott and's notion of people and liberalism made to make -- may end | :12:41. | :12:47. | |
up being pragmatic. We will be discussing the future of | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
the Scottish Conservatives before too long. | :12:52. | :13:02. | |
:13:02. | :13:02. | ||
Ross Martin and John -- and George Kerevan are still here. One person | :13:02. | :13:08. | |
said the left in Scotland is the mainstream. He is that the problem? | :13:08. | :13:15. | |
The SNP have realised that. That is absolutely true. What has happened | :13:15. | :13:20. | |
in Scotland is that politicians think they have moved on, but the | :13:20. | :13:29. | |
people have moved on pass them. -- passed a them. People have moved | :13:29. | :13:36. | |
the gate. People are organising themselves outside the political | :13:36. | :13:46. | |
:13:46. | :13:48. | ||
mainstream. What is left gets defined in such broader terms. -- | :13:48. | :13:58. | |
:13:58. | :14:01. | ||
such broad terms. The SNP are not a left-wing party, they are like | :14:01. | :14:08. | |
Christian Democrats in a northern European country. They are not | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
hostile to big business. They do not want to contain big business | :14:12. | :14:21. | |
today? Scottish society, I mean the middle-class part, has centre-left | :14:21. | :14:29. | |
values. The SNP reflects that. They are a centre-left party in the | :14:29. | :14:35. | |
Scandinavian tradition. The Scottish consensus is that | :14:35. | :14:43. | |
collectivism is a top-down statist approach to reform. Radicalism, I | :14:43. | :14:51. | |
still count myself as a radical, that means we have to get away from | :14:51. | :14:59. | |
the top down statist approach. That change has to come from the bottom, | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
from other local authorities, local groups and community groups. Even | :15:03. | :15:13. | |
:15:13. | :15:18. | ||
trade unionism. If you think of all the debates that we have had, you | :15:18. | :15:27. | |
cannot have a sensible discussion here. We cannot talk about free | :15:27. | :15:34. | |
prescriptions for rich people. Perhaps if private companies could | :15:34. | :15:41. | |
help provide a public services? you look at Scotland, and try to | :15:41. | :15:50. | |
find a way Brackley is a maze, -- try to find where radicalism is, | :15:50. | :15:59. | |
there is a lack of responsibility. Scotland never got them Margaret | :15:59. | :16:06. | |
Thatcher, Germany and France never got that either. Nobody accuses | :16:06. | :16:15. | |
Angela Merkel or Nicolas Sarkozy are the right wing. The Labour | :16:15. | :16:23. | |
Party in Scotland looks at the SNP and sees itself, and vice-versa. | :16:23. | :16:30. | |
Scottish politics will always be seen prove that crazy present. -- | :16:30. | :16:40. | |
that crazy prism. The SNP is cleverer that been seen left-wing | :16:40. | :16:49. | |
when it wants to. He it is -- it is not challenging the consensus. | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
tend to agree with that. There is a problem in the local parties across | :16:53. | :17:01. | |
Scotland. The leaderships are often frightened to embrace policy debate. | :17:01. | :17:07. | |
It has been that way since the 1970s. We are never going to have a | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
referendum unless the SNP comes up and says what it would do in that | :17:12. | :17:22. | |
event. Amongst all the parties north and south of the border, | :17:22. | :17:27. | |
there is a worry about getting into a serious policy debate. That is | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
why the Jimmy Reid Foundation is a good idea. We need to debate | :17:30. | :17:40. | |
:17:40. | :17:41. | ||
serious ideas. When you see that film, many people in Scotland, even | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
people who see themselves in that light, never had anything to do | :17:44. | :17:53. | |
with it. Nobody talks about the Scottish middle classes. It is the | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
Scottish middle classes who form the big mass of people who vote for | :17:58. | :18:03. | |
the political parties. They are in the middle of the distribution | :18:03. | :18:11. | |
curve. That is represented in the public's get -- the public sector | :18:11. | :18:17. | |
of Scotland. Thank you very much. | :18:17. | :18:27. | |
:18:27. | :18:34. | ||
A look at the front pages. The Guardian there, the Independent as | :18:34. | :18:44. | |
:18:44. | :18:50. | ||
well. They are all talking about the event macros. -- riots. | :18:50. | :19:00. | |
:19:00. | :19:26. | ||
Cutbacks in the Financial Times. Rain in Scotland. Some sunshine in | :19:26. | :19:34. | |
East Anglia. A misty humid kind of day. It will be great for most of | :19:34. | :19:40. | |
the day. A line of rain will move slowly across Wales. He should not | :19:40. | :19:46. | |
be too heavy here. Some rain early on across Northern Ireland. We may | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
see things turning dryer. It will be pretty wet by the end of the day | :19:51. | :19:57. | |
in western Scotland and the far north-east. That rain will move | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
across all of the Scotland during Friday evening. Some bright | :20:01. | :20:08. |