22/08/2011 Newsnight Scotland

so acknowledges its own limitations. And without a change in the

international climate, it seems difficult how it could be extended

to Syria or Iran. Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, will the rebel

surge into the Libyan capital also bring with it fresh information on

the Lockerbie bombing? As Scottish officials try to contact the only

man convicted of the crime, we ask what lies ahead for Abdelbaset al-

Megrahi and the investigation into who else may have been responsible

for the murder of 270 people. Good evening. The Prime Minister

and the President of the United States have both come out and said

that Colonel Gaddafi must relinquish power in Libya.

As his regime appears to be losing its grip, politicians here and in

the USA are already seeing Gadaffi's downfall as an

opportunity to gain more information about Lockerbie.

Deserters from his regime have already said there is proof among

files in Tripoli. But what will it mean for the man convicted of the

bombing? The rebels are closing in the corner Colonel Gadaffi. This

convoy is heading to the main square in Tripoli. We spoke to one

Scottish nurse in the compound in Tripoli. I was a night shift last

night and I am just getting ready to call back on shaft and the

people appear to be very happy about the possible change. They

seem to think that the new government can only be a good thing

for it would be a. This this situation is changing daily, but

what will it mean for one Libyan in particular? The future of the

Abdelbaset al-Megrahi is once again up for debate. That decision to

release than in the first place - I would much rather see him behind

bars, but there are serious legal debates to be looked at in this.

the United States, future presidential candidate is calling

for Abdelbaset al-Megrahi to be extradited to the United States.

There is a general feeling that the the decision to release Abdelbaset

al-Megrahi appears to be borne out by Paul's which have beat taken

place. His safety is in question and there is a fear among some that

American secret services we tried to assassinate him. I think his

life is in less danger. Apart from any disease or illness he is

suffering from. With the tribal balance been reset and the main

power which used terror as a political tool gone, he is now it

finally free to speak his own version and that is the version we

should all listen to. And Libya's tribal dynamics come into this. New

members of the transitional government were also members of

Abdelbaset al-Megrahi was trade. As far as we know, he is not planning

to flee. As part of his conditions of release, he is not allowed to

leave Libya or even change address without contacting the authorities

here. Officials here are confident that he is still at that address

and that he is not planning to leave at the country. The council

say they will con tact and then the next couple of days. But key people

of the regime's say they have proof of his guilt. They say that proof

always end fails in Tripoli, but they have offered no proof to back

up these claims. They have a lot to gain by convincing the west of the

year credence. He himself may want to half discussions with the

authorities. No decisions are made in this country without the say-so

of the boss himself. Other factors could come into play. A report by

the Scottish Criminal Cases Review it is expected soon and it has been

claimed it raises serious concerns about Abdelbaset al-Megrahi his

conviction. But it is unlikely to end the speculation about what

really happened in the sky above Joining us in our Washington studio

is Stephanie Bernstein, who lost her husband, Michael, in Pan Am

Flight 103. Cannot you give us an idea of your feelings as you have

seen at the scenes in it Libya? am inspired by the courage and

bravery and conviction of the Libyan people. We are about to

celebrate the unveiling of a memorial to Martin Luther King. He

used to say something that President Obama often quotes, which

is that the moral art of history is long, but it is advanced towards

justice. Over the last 23 years, I have doubted the moral bulk of the

universe, but my faith has been restored in seeing what is going on

in Tripoli and Libya. What will change in order for you to receive

justice? We are at a critical time right now. Things are very fluid.

There was a court this afternoon with the White House national

security staff for the families of Pan Am Flight 103.. In a fluid

situation, there are opportunities. I disagree with the previous person

who said that Abdelbaset al-Megrahi is not in danger within Libya. I

think he probably is. He was an agent of a Libyan intelligence, and

I am sure there are people he was responsible for harming. We have an

opportunity to provide him with safety in exchange for information.

I also wanted to bring up Moussa Koussa. He was allowed to leave

Libya, he is now sunning himself up somewhere. He was one of the

architects of Pan Am Flight 103.. So, I think this is an opportunity

for people to give information. I thought we lost that opportunity

when Abdelbaset al-Megrahi was wrongly released two years ago. We

now have another opportunity. We lost the opportunity then to get

information from him, but now we have that opportunity. If we do not

take it, I will be disappointed. What chance do you think it tears

American forces, all the National Transitional Council, will hand him

over? -- what chance do you think it is that. I cannot say. I believe

the Justice Minister has a very strong commitment to the rule of

law. I would hope he would want to assist in any ongoing criminal

investigation. In the United States, this is an ongoing criminal

investigation. I it would like to have asked use this as an

intelligence gathering opportunity. There is also a chance for asked to

redeem the actions of allow government, which turned a blind

eye, not only to the fact that Abdelbaset al-Megrahi should have

served the rest of his term, but turned a blind eye to Gaddafi's

human rights abuses in the sake of business interests. A while you

confident, then, that fresh information will emerge? -- Why are

you confident. Because this is a fluid time. It may take the people

a long time to sort through it, but there will be information. Is there

a well amongst the administration in capital cities, involved in the

conflict in Libya, do you think there is able to find that

information? I hope so. My husband was involved in pursuing justice

for people who died long before. He was a prosecutor who worked for an

office in the Department of Justice, who found not seize who aided the

German government in the Second World War. -- who found Nazis.

There was that office because we believed that the morale up of the

universe has to tilt towards justice. -- moral Arc. If we

allowed business interests to cloud our judgment about what the right

thing to do, this is an opportunity for us to say to our children, we

will do the right thing. We did the right thing by helping the Libyan

people, and we need to find out whatever there is to find out all

the atrocities committed by this regime. Thank you for joining us

from Washington. We can cross now to Exeter, where

we are joined by Tim Niblock, professor of Middle East Politics

at Exeter University. And in Brighton by John Aston, who is co-

authoring a book with Megrahi. Mr Aston, can you give us any

information on how Abdelbaset al- Megrahi is? I cannot, I am afraid.

Given your relationship in the past, do you think he will beat worried?

It seems the Gaddafi regime is coming to an end? Everyone in Libya

will be Libya -- will be worried. I would be worried if I was him

because of what American politicians have been saying

recently. That said, he hoped he will have the protection of his

tribe. Professor, as everyone has been saying, the situation is very

fluid in deed. Where do you seek the Libyan situation panning out in

terms of gaining more information about what happened in the

Lockerbie bombing? Do you think the National Transitional Council will

be friendly to investigators? have got no reason not to be. It is

in debt interest to show what happened with Gaddafi, and what

went wrong. Abdelbaset al-Megrahi has already said he thinks he has

evidence of Gaddafi's involvement in what happened in Lockerbie.

Presumably, they have an interest in that. Whether there is any

reality behind there is a different matter. Lots of people have lots of

different competing interests. If the Gaddafi regime is to fall,

there will be people looking for supporters. Do you think that is

likely to have hiked up the information we think might be in

Tripoli? Maybe. But in the last few days, the Libyan National

Transitional Council has been moderate in what it has been saying.

It has been talking about reconciliation, it has been trying

to defuse some of the pension and calls for revenge. -- some of the

pension. In many ways, it may be in its interests not to hike up the

question of Abdelbaset al-Megrahi, because that could focus the

tension. We have heard from senators asking for Abdelbaset al-

Megrahi to be extradited there. Do you think that is likely to happen?

I have no idea. This would be forbidden, because deep government

would stand by the international treaties. They signed up to a trial

process which allowed Abdelbaset al-Megrahi to be tried in the

Scottish law. If he were to emerge in the next couple of days, do you

think it is likely he would want to stay in Tripoli, or move on to

somewhere else? I really do not know. He wants to be safe, and I do

not know whether you'll be saved in Tripoli or outside. House a fault

Abdelbaset al-Megrahi be? -- How safe. Can you explain to us where

he sits, and how likely it is the tribe will protect him? He comes

from a tribe closely associated with Gaddafi, and the Gaddafi

regime. However, there are many members of the tribe who are not

supporters of the Gaddafi regime. I would have thought that he would

have been able to count on some support from that background,

whether from supporters of Gaddafi or not. I think it is also worth

bearing in mind that Abdelbaset al- Megrahi himself probably has quite

a lot of interest in a revealing as much as he knows. He was going into

an appeal at the time he went back to Libya. He believes he has a

strong case himself to show he was not lucky, so presumably, he will

want to have revealed that. We did beat in the interests of any

government that would takeover not to be too co-operative? -- would it

be. Haven't we be told that Abdelbaset al-Megrahi is a national

hero in Libya in the past? He was a hero of the regime, if you like. It

would be wrong to call him a national hero. In any case, it may

also be true that the regime will have something to gain by having

him out of the country. When he is out of the country, it will not be

caused third division within. speculation that the Scottish

report into his appeal, legislation might be brought forward. From your

information, what is Abdelbaset al- Megrahi's view on how much of his

case that should be made public? has always said or other it will be

made public. He was devastated he had to drop his appeal when he went

home. He wants the evidence to come out. He constantly says to me, I

cannot have my day in court. I want the public to be my jury. I want

them to judge with their heads, not their hearts? The criminal case

will be made public. We your book contain information? -- will your

book. Of course. What they did uncover was pretty devastating as

well. Professor, we heard from a victim of Pan Am Flight 103. Lots

of those related to those who died have been a desperate to find the

true that this case. Do you think the events in Libya will bring them

any closer? It may well do, but the truth may not lead in the direction

which they think it leaves. It may not lead towards Abdelbaset al-

Megrahi, and in may not lead towards Libya. Do you believe there

is any link between Libya and the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103.?

why do not. -- I do not. Why did the Libyan regime admit liability

then? They had omitted legal responsibility, but always said, we

did not do this. -- they admitted legal responsibility. They always

said, we are not admitting guilt. Professor, a final word on Gaddafi.

Is this the end game? I think it is the endgame. It rather depends on

where he is. If he has gone to the south, he can probably remain there