Browse content similar to 19/09/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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and they were faced disaster at the balls. | :00:04. | :00:08. | |
-- they will face disaster at the palls. On Newsnight Scotland | :00:08. | :00:13. | |
tonight: We stay with the Liberal Democrats. The Secretary of State | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
for Scotland gives his views on his party's prospects. | :00:16. | :00:19. | |
Also tonight, we hear from the third and possibly final contender | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
to lead the Scottish wing of that other coalition party, the | :00:22. | :00:28. | |
Conservatives. Good evening. As the UK Liberal | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
Democrats put on a brave face, and more or less unite in defence of | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
their role in the coalition government, some of their prominent | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
Scots seem less comfortable. The party's most senior Scots have been | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
hitting out at the SNP government, and Scottish Leader Willie Rennie | :00:42. | :00:48. | |
is floating ideas about yet more powers for Holyrood. But in the | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
background, former leader Tavish Scott has been telling newspaper | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
readers that his electoral disaster last year was inevitable after the | :00:53. | :01:03. | |
:01:03. | :01:11. | ||
UK Lib Dems chose to join the Plenty to ponder, for a Lib Dems | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
meeting in Birmingham. They are in government but still having to | :01:14. | :01:19. | |
spend a lot of time looking over their shoulders. He then | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
frontbenchers like Vince Cable are having to put effort into attacking | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
the SNP. Some people may have noticed that one of the big media | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
companies has recently had a spot of bother. The Labour Party, the | :01:32. | :01:37. | |
Conservatives and even the Scottish nationalists spent years queuing up | :01:37. | :01:43. | |
to pay them homage. What makes me proud of our party is that we never | :01:43. | :01:48. | |
compromised our cells and that right. The Chief Secretary to the | :01:48. | :01:55. | |
Treasury, Danny Alexander, is also getting in on the act. The Scottish | :01:55. | :01:57. | |
National has made the same mistake, we will never frustrate the | :01:57. | :02:04. | |
national interest, they are enemies of growth. The SNP's success in the | :02:04. | :02:12. | |
Holyrood elections is promising up Hollis the rethink. -- promising a | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
policy rethink. We're developing a blueprint so what we spend the | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
Scottish Parliament is would be raised in Scotland, but we also | :02:20. | :02:25. | |
want to look at local authorities, because increasingly, Scotland is | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
grabbing power into the centre and as liberals, we are strongly in | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
favour of communities to determining their own futures, just | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
like Edinburgh having more control, we want councils to have more | :02:35. | :02:41. | |
control. There is a lot of ground to make up. Remember in the | :02:41. | :02:47. | |
election campaign, the outgoing veteran Lib Dem ms Peake backed | :02:47. | :02:55. | |
Alex Salmond for her First Minister. -- Lib Dem MSP. Personal support, I | :02:55. | :03:01. | |
think he has that there? And the courage to lead Scotland to a | :03:01. | :03:07. | |
prosperous, sustainable future. Then there was the U-turn by Lib | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
Dem MPs on tuition fees for English students. He need to ask them that, | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
they decided to do that down there, I voted to get rid of tuition fees | :03:16. | :03:22. | |
in Scotland and to keep funding, I have a reasonable record on that | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
issue. Tavish Scott has been writing about that election and the | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
Scots and pointing out that despite having an impeccable record on | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
tuition fees in Scotland, the party was dragged into the political | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
gutter by the decision in London. This is the document the Lib Dems | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
hoped would put them on the road to recovery. The election review looks | :03:43. | :03:49. | |
not just that the election results from this year, but also the | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
referendum. The party blames the Labour Party and they blame their | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
own activists for not getting involved enough. For the leadership, | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
there is a lot of work did done. A fight has broken out over what the | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
SNP call a threatening letter from dally Alexander to the Scottish | :04:07. | :04:14. | |
government. -- Danny Alexander. saw the First Minister's toxic mix | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
of prejudice and nationalism. that description was applied to | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
anything, I think the public sector workers watching this broadcaster | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
Jake might apply it to the letter from Danny Alexander and find that | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
entire attitude of huge importance and consign his political party to | :04:32. | :04:38. | |
even lower support than it has just now, if that were possible. In the | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
end, to govern is to choose, and we took the decision about public | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
sector pensions money there was more money for public services | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
including more money in Scotland. To be clear, John Swinney and Alex | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
Salmond are free to do something on public sector pensions, but they | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
will have to pay the price for doing that in terms of their own | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
budget. That is a choice they are free to make. As this Lib Dem | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
conference continues, delegates have a lot to think about. They say | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
they are in government and underside, but clearly, there is | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
work to be done if that message is to be accepted across the country. | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
A short while ago I spoke to the Liberal Democrats Secretary of | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
State of Scotland, Michael Moore MP, who's at the Birmingham Conference. | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
I asked him first if he accepted the Tavish Scott view that the | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
tuition fees decision had dropped his party into the gutter ahead of | :05:28. | :05:35. | |
the Scottish election. We had a very difficult year, there | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
were a number of difficult political choices in front of us, | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
certainly tuition fees was one of them. That was one that we fail to | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
convey properly in Scotland and elsewhere in the UK. It was also, | :05:48. | :05:54. | |
frankly, and Tallis has spoken about this, about the difficult | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
decisions on the deficit, tackling the deficit to get us out of the | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
hole that we were left by the previous government. And any party | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
trying to get elected against that backdrop was facing difficulties | :06:06. | :06:14. | |
and we suffer the consequences and Scotland. I wonder if MPs... I | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
wonder if Lib Dem MPs like you will suffer the same fate that the next | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
to the UK general election throws up of the economy has not recovered | :06:22. | :06:28. | |
by then? We're certainly putting key emphasis on the economy. The | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
first part of this is to get the deficit under control. The Devils | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
at reduction plan has got to work and we have got to see growth. -- | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
deficit reduction plan. We have focused on that in the last year. | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
At the conference here, we heard from Danny Alexander and Nick Clegg | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
so far about the priority and making sure we do everything we can | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
to get investment and infrastructure and to make sure | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
that we are teasing out the different parts of the economy to | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
get people employed in to get bank's lending and to make sure | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
businesses have what they need to create the future sustainable | :07:04. | :07:11. | |
growth that has been sadly lacking in the past decade. It is | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
interesting the policies you have set out, because one of your | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
colleagues said tonight that a party will be slaughtered at the | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
elections if there isn't economic recovery and he said that what you | :07:22. | :07:28. | |
need to do in order to drive the recovery is to invest more in | :07:28. | :07:34. | |
infrastructure and capital investment. I hope that he has been | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
listening carefully to what Danny Alexander said yesterday about | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
their half-a- billion pounds of additional funding that will be | :07:41. | :07:47. | |
focused on the infrastructure or investment that we need. We're | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
investing in science, we are looking at the state of the | :07:52. | :07:54. | |
infrastructure and at broadband roll-out, and everywhere the | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
Government is spending, we're making sure that it is really about | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
the economy. We spend as a government something like �700 | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
billion every year and we need to make sure that this is as bogus as | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
possible in getting people in jobs, rebalancing the economy, which has | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
been skewed in the last few years. If you don't spend more in this | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
area, does admit to an enemy of crows as a minister in his | :08:21. | :08:27. | |
coalition government? -- does it make to an enemy. No, we need to | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
get the deficit under control and make sensible decisions about how | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
we spend money and we need to give confidence to the market that we | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
can deliver cred debate on the economic plan and I believe in the | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
last year, we have been establishing that. He cannot forget | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
that the deficit was bigger than any of the other countries that | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
struggled in the last year and we are currently enjoying some of the | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
lowest interest rates if any body in Europe, which is vital to help | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
businesses to invest. It is vital to get individuals back on their | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
feet after what were very tough economic times. It also tells us | :09:03. | :09:09. | |
how bad the economic position is. Let me ask about the coming days | :09:09. | :09:11. | |
when we will hear from the Scottish government, their budget plans, no | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
doubt they will say you should be spending more on capital investment | :09:16. | :09:22. | |
like Lord or pshaw, but they will also no doubt be saying that the | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
devolved administration needs more economic clout in order to drive | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
economic growth in Scotland, more cloud then you're proposing in the | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
Scotland Bill, do you support that agenda? Let's remember what is in | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
the Scotland Bill. Substantial new powers on borrowing, Paris that we | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
will be very access to so the Scottish government can get on with | :09:45. | :09:53. | |
infrastructure projects. -- Paras that we will be accessing go to the | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
Scottish government. We believe we have a broad range of support | :09:57. | :10:03. | |
across political parties in Scotland and in civics society. The | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
Scottish government has other proposals, corporation tax been one | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
of those, had we have said that we need to make the case, listen to | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
the points that we are making, answered those points and we will | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
consider that in the round. Frankly we have lacked detail from the | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
Scottish government. My colleague in the Treasury put key questions | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
about the cost of corporation tax been transferred and about the | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
behavioural impacts it would have and the huge cost of reducing | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
Scottish tax to Irish levels which is the Scottish government's | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
aspirations. That makes it sound like you're against, but at the | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
same time, you're talking about Holyrood racing all of the money | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
that it spends in setting up a commission to get exactly that. | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
Surely be two positions and inconsistent? What we have said is | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
the case for corporation tax has to be made with care, in detail and | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
has to answer some pretty fundamental concerns. What we | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
Rennie and I ate together are wanting colleagues in the Scottish | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
party to do is to look at how home rule should be refashioned in the | :11:11. | :11:20. | |
21st century. -- what really -- what Willie Rennie and I are doing. | :11:20. | :11:26. | |
That is an important process that looks at devolution in the last two | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
decades in building AND developing consensus and working through to | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
implement its, but there is a lot of assertion but not a lot of | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
detail. Might you're Lib Dem proposals for Holyrood to raise all | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
of the money include corporation tax being devolved in some shape or | :11:45. | :11:55. | |
:11:55. | :11:56. | ||
We're saying we will look again at work done in previous exercises by | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
the party. We are proud and Scotland of what we have done over | :11:59. | :12:06. | |
the years to make the case for devolution. More recently, we | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
brought our ideas into it and persuaded others to come on board | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
and join us, and we got consensus. Yet again, we are looking carefully | :12:14. | :12:19. | |
at what is best suited for Scotland. We will look at it, build the case | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
and seek to build consensus. Beyond that, we will look to see where | :12:24. | :12:31. | |
Scotland wants to go. Corporation tax might be part of it, I guess or | :12:31. | :12:39. | |
no? What I have said so far is that the Scottish government is going to | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
make the case and have submitted a paper. We have asked fundamental | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
questions and I look forward to the questions as I am sure you do as | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
well. Now, to what's probably the last in | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
our series of interviews with candidates for the Scottish Tory | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
Leadership. Nominations close at the end of this week. Ruth Davidson | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
wants to lead the party in its current form, having rejected as | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
destabilising Murdo Fraser's ideas for a new brand altogether. So | :13:03. | :13:13. | |
:13:13. | :13:14. | ||
what's her big idea for making the Tory brand a bit less toxic? | :13:14. | :13:19. | |
What emerged that a campaign launch was what she called a lane in the | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
sand over new powers for Holyrood and she promised that she would | :13:23. | :13:29. | |
lead the party back to power in Scotland within a decade. Real | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
change for the Scottish Conservatives will not come from a | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
new name. Real progress will come when we start talking to people | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
about the issues that really matter to them. Political office is new to | :13:41. | :13:46. | |
Ruth Davidson. She registered barely 2000 votes in Glasgow Kelvin | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
in May's election to the Scottish Parliament, getting in by way of | :13:51. | :13:57. | |
the Glasgow last. At 32, she is the youngest candidate and enjoys those | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
cliches of political journalism about youthfulness, fresh-faced and | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
so on. Here is the irony. She is getting support from the more | :14:06. | :14:14. | |
traditional wing of the party, establishment icons like Lord | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
Forsyth and Lord Sanderson enthusiastically backing her | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
candidacy. Combined with a cautious policy approach, many regard has | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
the status quo option. Ruth Davidson is a former BBC presenter | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
and has served in the Territorial Army. This is no doubt come in | :14:33. | :14:41. | |
handy in what could be a bruising contest. Ruth Davidson joins me now. | :14:41. | :14:46. | |
Let's start with fundamentals. What makes you a Conservative? I am a | :14:46. | :14:52. | |
Conservative, I believe in strong families, support for the family. I | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
believe in helping business and supporting entrepreneurs, I believe | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
in it strong law and order policies. If these are conservative values I | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
believe can resonate across Scotland. Let us test your | :15:04. | :15:10. | |
instincts. Does prison work? think it can, yes. Should we be | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
locking up more people convicted of crimes? I think we should have a | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
punishment that fits the crime and one of the things I have proposed | :15:19. | :15:24. | |
is that I think in Scotland we should have an effective life | :15:24. | :15:29. | |
tariff for the worst crimes. There are some crimes so heinous in our | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
society some people should not be allowed back out. Why should mean | :15:32. | :15:38. | |
life? I believe so. What about the economy? The top rate of income tax | :15:38. | :15:44. | |
is 50p, should it stay that way? the moment I think it should. | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
the duration of this Westminster Parliament? I think that is a | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
question for the Treasury and George Osborne, I am willing to | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
follow his lead. I believe in smaller government and smaller tax | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
generally but there are times when we need to set our tax | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
proportionately. We need to set tax progressively. Would you like to | :16:03. | :16:10. | |
get rid of the 50 pence rate? aspiration when we are on a server | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
financial footing and have got rid of her debt. Do you support minimum | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
pricing, minimum unit pricing for a call? I don't believe in blanket | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
minimum unit pricing for alcohol because that is using a hammer to | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
crack an egg. We need to look at where the problems are, problem | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
drinks and problem drinkers. I think that pricing absolutely has a | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
part to play in helping weans Scotland off its drink addiction. | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
In terms of minimum unit price and I do not think that Mrs Sally it | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
addresses the problems we see in our states. If what would you do | :16:44. | :16:49. | |
instead? I think we need to go through the tax and duty system. I | :16:49. | :16:55. | |
think we need to look at things like strong ciders and what we | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
called tonic wines on the BBC but people across the central belt will | :16:58. | :17:04. | |
know what I am referring to. You're referring to but fast. I was not | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
sure if we were allowed to use brand-names. Talking about strong | :17:08. | :17:14. | |
ciders and things like alcopops. If we are allowed to use brand-names, | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
ones which encourage younger drinkers, things like Mad Dog | :17:18. | :17:23. | |
Twenty20. He would put up tax but only on a UK basis. He only UN | :17:23. | :17:28. | |
products which are a problem. Questions about what kind of Tory | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
were, would you describe yourself as a traditionalist? Are you the | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
status quo candidate? I don't think it is fair to describe me as a | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
status quo candidate. I don't believe that changing the name of a | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
party or dissolving it or reconstituting a new party that | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
would sit in coalition with the Westminster Conservatives at is the | :17:48. | :17:54. | |
auction. That is Murdo Fraser's big idea, what is years? I want to see | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
real change that comes from a generational change, a change in | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
leadership. What we have seen in political history both at | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
Westminster where we saw a Labour Party that was told in the early | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
1990s it could not won again and then Tony Blair came forward. | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
have mentioned that you are younger and fresher perhaps in some ways | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
than the other candidates in this contest, but that is not enough, | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
surely? I think what I offer is a clear and positive vision for the | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
future of the party and the country. I have the energy to drive that | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
country and the will and the ability, I believe, to reconnect | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
with people in Scotland to perhaps stop listening to the Conservatives. | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
Some people were worried about a lack of experience given that you | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
have just been elected to Holyrood. You rival, Murdo Fraser, says that | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
anyone wanting to be a leader has to demonstrate they can win over | :18:45. | :18:50. | |
the people they work with first of all. Why are both -- most MSPs | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
backing him and not you? There are a number of MSPs who have not | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
declared yet but what is very interesting is that for the first | :18:58. | :19:03. | |
time in Scotland, this election is not for the leader of the Scottish | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
Conservative group at Holyrood. pretty important part of the job. | :19:06. | :19:16. | |
:19:16. | :19:22. | ||
All contenders are MSPs. This election is to win to be the leader | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
of the entire party in Scotland for St do it. Speaking to a number of | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
people who have come out for model, and if you few the up, it for me, | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
they're not anti- one person they are another, they are pro Murdo | :19:35. | :19:40. | |
Fraser and the absolutely would serve in a conservative group in | :19:40. | :19:48. | |
Holyrood that I am the leader of. On that, would Murdo Fraser have a | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
job in your team? I have been incredibly clear all through this | :19:52. | :19:57. | |
that I want everybody elected in the Scottish Conservative and | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
Unionist Party to serve and that party. That's not met Sally I yes, | :20:01. | :20:09. | |
is it? It is absolutely yes. I will read it through the ranks. If it | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
when the other way, we deserve under the leadership of either of | :20:12. | :20:18. | |
your rivals? Absolutely. Going by some of Murdo Fraser's proposals, | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
if he goes so far as to reconstitute a new party and it is | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
more of a new change -- name change, then I think the party has to | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
decide that is the route that is going to go down. Would he joined | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
his new party? I would have to see what it involves and you would have | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
to know a lot more details but these are really questions for | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
Murdo Fraser. If he is proposing a whole new per 10 Scotland... What | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
he's blue at the party in Scotland? These are questions he would have | :20:47. | :20:52. | |
to ask him. I am asking for your view? It very much depends on him | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
because we have not heard all that he is proposing. What we have to | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
acknowledge is that the party has to be involved in any process down | :20:59. | :21:04. | |
that route. We its stock about your progress. Has devolution work in | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
your view? I think it is here to stay but it could work better. It | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
has got very positive elements and one other thing is we have talked | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
about during this campaign has been the Scotland Bill that is about to | :21:17. | :21:23. | |
happen. Why should not Holyrood have more power? Why should the | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
Scotland Bill be a line in the stand? As I was saying at the | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
launch event, let us get it working first at and implement it. I am | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
standing with the Prime Minister, with Annabel Goldie, with David | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
McLetchie and others she had been talking about in Liberal Democrats | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
like Danny Alexander, people like Tavish Scott. Are you saying you | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
are not against more power but just not now? I am saying let us see | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
this walking before looking to the next thing. Not a lane and Nissan | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
then? I want to see a the Scotland Bill working on the ground. We may | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
need to tweak things are in the future but if you're talking about | :22:02. | :22:04. | |
things like reversing corporation tax I do not believe that is the | :22:04. | :22:12. | |
right thing to do just now. Ruth Davidson, thank you. Let's take a | :22:12. | :22:18. | |
quick look at tomorrow's papers. quick look at tomorrow's papers. | :22:18. | :22:24. | |
Cable put a UK or more fitting. There's a picture of Andy Murray | :22:24. | :22:29. | |
and his girlfriend on the front page there. A similar picture and | :22:29. | :22:38. | |
the Daily Mail. The headline is a look ahead to the Scottish but it | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
on Wednesday. The Times front page goes on at the | :22:43. | :22:45. | |
payout in a packing case. That's payout in a packing case. That's | :22:45. | :22:48. |