11/04/2012 Newsnight Scotland

Tonight on Newsnight Scotland: More problems with the new Curriculum

for Excellence. Is this really all about funding, a timetable of

reform and ability of teachers to adapt? Or is something much more

fundamental going wrong? And as local election fever sweeps the

nation, or maybe not, we look at the battle in Dundee. The city once

known for jam, jute and journalism, more recently known for being on

its uppers. But is it on the verge of a renaissance?

When it comes to the new curriculum, hailed as a revolution in schools,

only two things are certain. One is that there are problems and two is

that it is difficult to get to the bottom of what they are. A new

report casts more doubt on whether the aim of the reforms is clear,

whether teachers understand them and whether they will be any

benefit to school students. Scotland's schools might be quiet

because of the Easter break, but that doesn't mean the education

debate has gone silent. The survey by Stirling University into the

Curriculum for Excellence means it is firmly on the front pages.

Researchers from the School of Education found 56% of teachers

felt good progress was being made on implementation. But 44% thought

it could be detrimental to some pupils. 75% of teachers said they

were in tune with the curriculum's philosophy. 74% said it had

resulted in an increased workload. A large proportion, 78%, said there

was not enough central guidance. But 53% said the changes would give

them greater freedom. 32% were positive about the way the

curriculum was developing. The key findings in the report from

Stirling University echo quite strongly our recent survey on

members, in that it indicated general support for the Curriculum

for Excellence, but with some concern about implementation,

particularly in relation to workloads and clear guidance from

local authorities and Scottish government. It would seem some of

the Troubles caused by a general lack of understanding about what

Curriculum for Excellence is all about. When you look at it closely

it can get a bit woolly. For example, take a four capacities it

is meant to foster, to make a young person a successful learner, a

confident individual, a responsible citizen and effective contributor.

The Scottish government responded by issuing a health warning,

pointing out that the survey looked at one local authority and was

carried out last year. That doesn't mean they have not been problems

with the introduction of Curriculum for Excellence. Look at this

decade-long timeline. In 2002, back in the days of the Labour and Lib

Dem coalition at Holyrood, a national consultation pound

education needed to be more engaging and relevant and led to a

curriculum review group being set up in 2003 to identify key

principles. A Curriculum for Excellence was subsequently

published in November 2004. In 2005, there was a research and review

process followed by progress and wreck -- proposals published and

building the curriculum in 2006. By 2007, the SNP had taken no after

forming a minority government, publishing draft experiences and

outcomes. After feedback from the University of Glasgow there were

more refinements. Then, in 2009, the new curriculum guidelines were

published for implementation. This implementation phase should have

been completed by last year. But the timetable just keeps on

slipping. Last year, East Renfrewshire council, which has

some of Scotland's best state secondaries, announced it was

delaying the introduction of new qualifications by a year. Soon

there were rumblings from other qualifications -- a parities

concerned about the changes. The Education Secretary was forced to

make a U-turn, while insisting everything was on course. I don't

think there will be need for delay. I said consistently that I want to

provide enough support and help to make sure that question of delay

does not occur. Political opponents like Liz Smith have piled in,

suggesting that the long time line and recent difficulties showed the

Scottish government has lost control. I think they have lost

control of the process and that is very sad. As soon as the case was

made -- for long -- for one local authority to delay it, he did not

handle it properly. He then had to hold an auditor and I don't think

it was very satisfactory. It implied he did not know which

schools were ready. Scotland's schools might be quiet at the

Easter holidays, but the debate on their future remains a noisy one.

Lindsey Patterson is the presenter of education policy at the

University of Edinburgh. In the studio is Brian Boyd, professor of

education and co-founder of the tapestry Partnership, a teacher

Development Organisation. Lindsey Patterson, are they new problems

with his curriculum, in your view? Procedural, about teaching the

teachers, whether there is enough funding to teach it and all the

rest of it? Or is there something more fundamental at issue? I don't

think it is just process, lack of funding or lack of time. These are

obviously important issues, but the fundamental issue is twofold. It's

not clear what this is about at all, and secondly, insofar as it is

clear, it seems to challenge some of the basic reasons why we have

schooling at all, handing on knowledge and wisdom to the next

generation, both of which seem to be absent from the guidelines.

second point, it is pretty damning, isn't it? Well, it is confirmed by

many of the teachers responding to the Stirling University report and

many other pieces of evidence over the years, there is great concern

in secondary schools that knowledge is being displaced. It is about

skills, competence and readiness for work, rather than thinking,

what have been the great ideas that have been refined over the

centuries and what responsibility do we have for making sure that

they are passed on? That is pretty damning? Yes, but it is not

accurate. There is nothing in Curriculum for Excellence at says

that knowledge is being devalued. I don't know where he get that idea

from. Can I give you a clue where he might be getting it from? Can I

quote from the Report? We want -- warned against approaches that damn

great knowledge in favour of skills development. Elsewhere, they

referred to a survey of teachers, again, I quote, knowledge is

disappearing from the curriculum because of the new focus in skills.

But stating that does not make it true. There is nothing within the

documentation that says that knowledge is not important. Quite

the contrary. What we are trying to do was have young people go through

the system with deep Lorna -- learning. I don't want to put too

much store on this, it was just one local authority. What they are

saying is that even if you are right, then you have got it wrong

if teachers think the opposite is the case. I've just looked at a set

of statistics on the monitor. It said 75% of teachers were generally

in favour of the philosophy of Curriculum for Excellence. I'm not

sure whether disconnect is happening. If there were people

with in the secondary that have those fears, we have to discuss it,

debated and debate whether the nature of the subject is being

devalued. These things are not insurmountable. Every single

curriculum reform we have had since the Second World War has

encountered difficulties of this kind. There is nothing surprising

in that report. Plenty Patterson, do you think there is substance to

this idea that knowledge is being degraded? At other people's stock

what are these skills? They are extremely vague. There are the four

capacities which the report highlighted, about being effective

contributors and that kind of stuff. There is also a lot of mind-numbing

detail in the documents about the various skills that are allegedly

required in the world of work. What you don't find here is any system

setting out the major ideas in our civilisation that we want to pass

on. Yes, there was a lot of incredibly detailed bits and pieces

of knowledge. But they are fragmented. There's nothing like in

the previous system that was recommended by all of the reforms.

A lot of parents watching this will be slightly worried. Let's go back

to the report. Another quote, secondary schools seem to be

constrained by ingrained notions that the primary purpose of

learning was a perceived need to prepare pupils for exams. If the

only point being made is that there is more to life than exams, fair

enough. But if it is a major problem that teachers think that

one of their main goals is, particularly for things like S4, to

get STDs to exams, that is what they should be doing? -- get

students through exams. There is a fundamental issue, I take it you

think that getting people through exams is the panic of what the

education system should achieve for. I didn't say that. I said I could

understand if the point is that the world is not just about exams. It's

not what I think, it's a question of what universities, who might be

considering admitting the students to study with them think. And what

employers who might be considering giving them a job think. This stuff

about holistic development doesn't cut much ice with university

That is interesting. An employer was telling me yesterday that was

exactly what he wanted. He wanted young people to come who had skills

as well as knowledge, who could interact socially. They cannot read

properly order with arithmetic. This get back to exams. One of the

biggest criticisms you can make of our system is that young people can

get through our exams and do very well with the minimum of

understanding, with superficial knowledge. Curriculum for

excellence is saying let's go for understanding, deep knowledge,

let's allow young Kabul to delve more deeply into the knowledge that

Linsey quite rightly says is important. Then people can simply

skim across the surface. Do you accept that? I can accept that

there is a criticism about exams. We can get into a debate about the

value of exams. The main thing about this is if you look at that

detailed draft syllabuses which have come out of the new exams they

are astonishingly traditional. There is nothing exciting more

innovative for which conforms to the big ideas. They are mind-

numbingly boring. Coming back to this report. One of the things they

say... The researchers are on your side by and large. They say one of

the barriers to developing curriculum for excellence is local

authority accountability systems, that over-emphasise attainment. In

other words, this irrational of entasis of local authorities on

whether the schools that they are running are any good or not. Given

that you don't propose any metrics that local authorities can use to

measure schools, other than attainment, exam attainment, what a

local authorities are supposed to do? I think there is a fundamental

issue here about the word attainment. It seems to me

attainment is a subset of achievement and in the past, our

system has narrowly focused its outcomes on attainment, things you

cannot measure by tests. However you look at education, education

must be about more than bad. Everybody accepts education is

about more than that, I think. The problem is if you are a local

authority or university or employer, you have to have something you can

measure. If he cannot have people turning up and saying, I'm as good

as she is or she is as good as he is because we've got a fuzzy

feeling. That's right. The great challenge to achieve the admirable

things that Brian is talking about is to form types of assessments

which are valid at tests these things. It is not to ditch

assessment. It attempts to be neutral, non biased against people

because of their gender, social class, that is the point. Are you

doing that? One of the quiet revolutions that is taking place

alongside curriculum for excellence in schools is something called

assessment for Learning, which looks at assessments in all their

forms, asking for a better balance. There is no sense in which

curriculum flex and so saying that we don't need to assess or you

should and a says it all. It is saying simply, led so says the

things that matter and not just the things you can write about in

examinations. Assessment is still National. One of the key issues

here is you've got superimposed upon the curriculum for excellence

a tendency to be very conservative when it comes to examinations and

so on. But is something we have to look at. We will have to leave it

there. Now to the first in our series

looking at the forthcoming local elections from a number of places

across the country. First up, the self styled City of Discovery,

Dundee. Traditionally a place of jam, jute and journalism, more

recently it's been better known for its social problems. But could it

be on the brink of a much better future? The administration is

currently an SNP minority, which they hope to turn into a majority.

But that won't happen if Labour I hope you're hungry. As part of my

tour of the forthcoming local elections, I've come to Dundee to

gauge the views of these women. Sometimes they don't use the

Riverside for the right things. You've got Tesco, which is fine,

but it is such a beautiful view that it seems to me they are faint

-- maintaining an industrial feel. There is a lot here in terms of

arts and culture and I agree with valve that they could do better

with the riverside area. It's a shame, they could do something

instead of just Tesco. It is very honest about itself. It is what it

is. They said that we made a real mess in the 60s and 70s with the

buildings, we are going to tear them down and start again. They

took quite a gamble with putting the contemporary arts centre in

when they did. They did that 10 years ago and I think 10 years ago,

for Dundee, that was a gamble. There was nothing like that here.

It was post-industrial, and they think they thought right, why not?

It can't make it any worse. It has made it substantially better. The

Tease it out so you are making it find a full Stock Susie runs a

craft business in the book -- in the City. They are teaching me how

to make balls. Have they feel of my it felt ball. I bet you say that to

all the boys! Squeeze it and it I think you are done. What do you

think? I like a big piece in the middle. So you're saying, you could

do better! I think you've done very well. You're just patronising me

now. Done Devonians are stripping away their industrial past, in

favour of a shiny, modern city, better in science, education and

creativity. I caught up with some of the people who were helping with

these changes. There are a lot of poor people and there are a lot of

people without jobs in Dundee. That needs addressing but I think it is

being addressed. We are heading in the right direction. The creative

side of the city is really important and that because to want

to locate in the City, the middle management and the upper management,

they want a nice place to live, they want nice things to go and see

and to run things like that. So that attracts people. A as I grow

up and went through university in Aberdeen, nothing would have

persuaded me to come and work in Dundee because of the repetition I

believed at that time that it had. In 2003, has persuaded to come and

have a look at the university and have quite frankly never looked

back. It is a university both in terms of the Medical School and the

have visited it has enormous flexibility and enormous creativity

and is not afraid to be different. I only have 15 worth -- 15 years'

worth in the City but I've had a sense of it changing. It feels

fresh and different to are the places I've been in Scotland or

bigger cities like Glasgow and London, where everything feels

quite crowded and it is very businesslike. It feels much more

like a community here. Despite a revolution going on, the City still

faces major challengers. Unemployment stands at 6%. The

Scottish average is 4.4 %. It is vital we can find jobs for people

with a range of skills. Dundee is regenerating and coming up again.

For a while, it was going down words for loss of a lot of

manufacturing. We lost NCR, the National Cash Registers. They

closed it down and send the work to China, I think, or Poland. That was

a loss. That was a huge loss for jobs. What is not working quite so

what? I'm not going to say it! Drugs! There is a drug problem in

Dundee. There is a drug problem. It doesn't matter where you go. Most

entertainment now, like the pictures and ice rinks are on the

perimeter of Dundee. Most people cannot get from the east to the

West without having to come in from the east of the city into the

centre, change of bus and go out to the West. My dog took part of his

training in Dundee so he knows the city better than I do. Perhaps too

well! The transformation of the Dundee skyline has happened over

the last 12 years and worth the New Victoria and Albert Museum on the

way, is likely to change even further. I'm now leaving Dundee and