Browse content similar to 17/04/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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or, we will see more things coming Tonight, his prison the right place | :00:13. | :00:19. | |
for female offenders? We will hear from the former Lord Advocate who | :00:19. | :00:29. | |
:00:29. | :00:29. | ||
wants Cornton Vale to be shut down. We have been to Moray to find out | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
if the closure of RAF Kinloss and the problems in the local fishing | :00:33. | :00:36. | |
industry will affect the local elections. | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
Female prisoners are more likely to be mentally ill, or addicted to | :00:40. | :00:45. | |
drugs and alcohol than their male counterparts. The majority are | :00:45. | :00:50. | |
serving short sentences for low- level crimes. A study by the former | :00:50. | :00:56. | |
lord advocate, golf, wants Cornton Vale to be demolished and offenders | :00:56. | :01:06. | |
:01:06. | :01:08. | ||
dealt with outside prison. Remember this blast from the past? | :01:08. | :01:14. | |
Prison works. It ensures that we are protected from murderers, | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
muggers, and rapists. Prison working, and being tough on crime | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
were always popular with the Tory conferences. The message has a | :01:23. | :01:28. | |
wider resonance with the public. The trouble is that judging from | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
reoffending rates, prison doesn't work, but doing something about it | :01:32. | :01:42. | |
:01:42. | :01:42. | ||
can be a political minefield. In recent times Ken Clarke and Kenny | :01:42. | :01:49. | |
MacAskill of the SNP have both tried to argue for more non- | :01:49. | :01:58. | |
custodial sentences. Arguing that sentencing does not work. That | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
leads to the accusation of being soft on crime. Here that Cornton | :02:03. | :02:11. | |
Vale, in Stirling, there are some pretty drastic facts about the | :02:11. | :02:19. | |
female population. It has more than doubled in the last decade, 70 -- | :02:19. | :02:24. | |
scented by percent of sentences are for less than six months. Unless | :02:24. | :02:31. | |
these issues are addressed, Keegan in prison indefinitely, or release | :02:31. | :02:37. | |
them. -- keep them in prison. We know what works, there is evidence, | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
we are not able to do it because of the structures, the working | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
practices, they are designed in such a way that they are not | :02:45. | :02:51. | |
targeting the chaotic nature of these women's lives. There are | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
alternative kinds of intervention, it is backed up by this former | :02:55. | :03:00. | |
offender, who has been helping at a centre in Glasgow. You need | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
something to get up for in the morning. Instead of drugs, you need | :03:04. | :03:14. | |
:03:14. | :03:16. | ||
something to do. I have been working for 218. A special | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
commission of one former offenders chaired by a Dame Elish Angiolini | :03:20. | :03:27. | |
has been looking at this issue. Their solutions are pretty radical. | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
The Commission on Women Offenders recommends that Cornton Vale should | :03:29. | :03:37. | |
be demolished and made way for specialist units. They think he | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
should be replaced have a smaller prison for long-term offenders. | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
This is by no means the first report with strong recommendations | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
into the future of Cornton Vale, the next stage is maybe the most | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
difficult, getting it through the political process. The report are | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
now LANs on the desk of the Scottish it justice secretary, | :03:58. | :04:05. | |
Kenny MacAskill. Opponents are already having their say, some four, | :04:05. | :04:11. | |
some against. Some of these women have committed very serious crimes, | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
judges have decided that custodial sentences are the most appropriate | :04:15. | :04:21. | |
form of punishment, it is important that justice is seen to be done. | :04:21. | :04:27. | |
Any idea that they should be set free, because it is a less serious, | :04:27. | :04:34. | |
that is not acceptable to me, or wider society as a whole. | :04:34. | :04:40. | |
question is, are we happy that many women, with serious illnesses, and | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
substance of these problems are in prison at the moment, we should be | :04:43. | :04:53. | |
:04:53. | :04:54. | ||
happy about full? -- at the moment? We should not be happy about that. | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
There will always be some women, because of the seriousness of their | :04:58. | :05:08. | |
crimes, have to be imprisoned. But some women should not be there, at | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
there are other ways. Whether Cornton Vale's days are numbered | :05:12. | :05:20. | |
not only depends on these reports, but the art of the political system. | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
Earlier I spoke to the former Lord Advocate, who chaired the | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
commission, I put it to her that what was missing were proposals to | :05:29. | :05:37. | |
change the law in order to make her ideas happen. There are a number of | :05:37. | :05:44. | |
propositions in changing the law. The composite sentence, which would | :05:44. | :05:54. | |
:05:54. | :05:54. | ||
be a hybrid, which is a first, the ability of a judge to keep tabs on | :05:54. | :06:02. | |
and have -- on an individual, they cannot find that what they are | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
doing, making sure they're not just smoking cigarettes and watching | :06:05. | :06:15. | |
:06:15. | :06:17. | ||
television. They would have to wonder take -- undertake a | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
programme of reform. The unless attitudes change, nothing much will | :06:21. | :06:31. | |
:06:31. | :06:33. | ||
change. You either have to change attitudes, or change laws. You seem | :06:33. | :06:39. | |
to refer to that any report, there has been a different of former | :06:39. | :06:47. | |
sentencing in specialise the drug courts. -- a different form. There | :06:47. | :06:55. | |
are different attitudes. What international research shows, and a | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
wad problem-solving quarter showed, is that where judges interact, and | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
take a very direct interest in the sentencing, and maintain a managing | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
of the sentence, the effect can be very sick of a dent in terms of | :07:09. | :07:18. | |
:07:19. | :07:23. | ||
rehabilitation. -- seed significance. They gave a mandate | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
for sherbets and judges to take the view that following a sentence | :07:28. | :07:38. | |
should be taken? I don't think you need to change the law, you need an | :07:38. | :07:48. | |
understanding of what works. There is a lack of confidence inside the | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
Community and the systems which are present. It is a chicken and egg | :07:53. | :07:59. | |
situation. You have to measure their systems, and demonstrate they | :07:59. | :08:07. | |
can make an impact. The committee needs to have a conference in the | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
systems. You need a strong community justice service. | :08:12. | :08:21. | |
problem is, as you yourself say, yours is one of many reports. We | :08:21. | :08:28. | |
have been talking about this for years? Yes. The number of prisoners | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
in jail has doubled. That is why the time has now come when | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
something must happen. It is not the case, as one commentator | :08:38. | :08:47. | |
suggested, are not rushing into it. -- of not rushing into it. It is | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
not that people are not working hard, they are working in different | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
directions. In many women's prisons, they have services coming from over | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
100 organisations to one prison. Managing that, their role providing | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
different services, prisoners in different areas, different | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
programmes, not measured, not researched, it might look good, but | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
what we need to do, he is say, it is good, it works. The trouble with | :09:13. | :09:20. | |
this is, I am not disputing some of the things you saying report, but | :09:20. | :09:30. | |
:09:30. | :09:35. | ||
is -- but I cannot count the number reports that I have read. It is a | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
common a theme, nothing seems to change. I can't speak for other | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
areas of government, one of the common features you find is that | :09:45. | :09:53. | |
there are differences because of a lack of collaboration. We saw a | :09:53. | :10:01. | |
vacuum in terms of leadership. We need leadership and drive to get | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
this programme moving, which evidence suggests it does work, to | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
convince judges, to convince the public that this is a far better | :10:12. | :10:18. | |
position to being and having prisoners in a default position. -- | :10:18. | :10:26. | |
to be in a ban have. There are a number of women with a significant | :10:26. | :10:36. | |
:10:36. | :10:38. | ||
drug problems. -- with a significant a drug problem. Your | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
proposal to close Cornton Vale, and replace it with something else, my | :10:43. | :10:48. | |
remark would-be is unless you have convince the judges, and convince | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
the public, as you have not, if you close Cornton Vale, all he will get | :10:53. | :10:59. | |
is overcrowding in local prisons? We are not suggesting knocking it | :10:59. | :11:05. | |
down and not replacing it. We are talking about a small unit. Units | :11:05. | :11:11. | |
that are based in the community. They will allow women who have been | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
very short time to be given an effective programme through multi- | :11:16. | :11:24. | |
discipline working. Not just a third sector, but working in | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
collaboration, so that they go there and they are supervised in a | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
very intensive way, which is not happening to them at the moment. | :11:32. | :11:38. | |
There are very few projects which show an element of success. Do we | :11:38. | :11:48. | |
:11:48. | :11:50. | ||
will -- do we require legislation to change it judges' opinions? | :11:50. | :11:56. | |
is not up to them. It is. They bore, quite rightly say, thank you very | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
much, I'm very interested, I will do what I think is a correct | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
interpretation of the law, no matter what you say. If you change | :12:05. | :12:10. | |
to law, they will interpret it as they want. The law is the catalyst | :12:10. | :12:19. | |
for change, that will be done by a these composite sentences. That | :12:20. | :12:29. | |
:12:30. | :12:31. | ||
will give a message to the judiciary. The sentencing is | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
something which they have to be accountable for. Why do you think | :12:36. | :12:42. | |
there has been a doubling in the number of women in prison? Crime | :12:42. | :12:48. | |
has gone down. It has. That is why it is so difficult. More women are | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
going to prison, there have been suggestions that judges were | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
sending warning to prison are disproportionately, there is no | :12:56. | :13:03. | |
evidence to support that. More women are surviving he never had | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
very significant drug addictions, and you see them later on, they | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
have anti-social behaviour, they are surviving and coming into | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
prison as a revolving door. Prison does not do with their problems, it | :13:17. | :13:24. | |
doesn't stop them offending, he -- a cost a lot of money. We need to | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
be able to do with bad behaviour, we need a better alternative. | :13:28. | :13:36. | |
I'm joined how from Edinburgh by Kirsty Pate who is the manager of | :13:36. | :13:43. | |
the Willow project, which deals with women offenders. On I am | :13:43. | :13:50. | |
curious to get any idea of the kind of women that are presumably former | :13:51. | :14:00. | |
offenders, there to deal with? service that I work for, this | :14:00. | :14:06. | |
service in Edinburgh, it is led by the NHS and we work in partnership | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
with the criminal-justice Social Work programme in Edinburgh Council, | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
and we work with people involved in the criminal-justice system and | :14:14. | :14:20. | |
maybe still actively offending when we start to work with them. Does | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
the picture that we have just had presented in that report tie with | :14:25. | :14:31. | |
your experience that to the types of problems these women in your | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
experience have? In general, these women involved in the criminal- | :14:35. | :14:42. | |
justice system tends to have a high prevalence of abuse, child is | :14:42. | :14:47. | |
sexual abuse and have experienced abuse and have had a mental health | :14:47. | :14:52. | |
problems and substance misuse problems, so the picture to date | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
from the report is very much what we see in this service on a day-to- | :14:56. | :15:02. | |
day basis. One of the statistics on today's report was that 71 % of | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
these women said they had committed the crime they were there for | :15:07. | :15:13. | |
committing while high on drugs and that seems to tie in with your | :15:13. | :15:19. | |
experience. Do you see any point of sending any of these people to jail, | :15:19. | :15:24. | |
as opposed to treating them for drug problems? Certainly, some of | :15:24. | :15:32. | |
these services in the community that work with women in the | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
community in a dressing addiction problems, addressing issues around | :15:34. | :15:42. | |
poverty. Are you able to treat people for drug addiction? | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
service has to support people that do not offer a prescribing service, | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
but we have them to access the disease that they struggled to | :15:50. | :15:56. | |
access. -- we help them. We get them to continue to attend | :15:56. | :16:03. | |
appointments for substance misuse. As our service provides a range of | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
different of activity is... some oblique, you were trying to | :16:08. | :16:18. | |
:16:18. | :16:18. | ||
get a different results by what? Women that getting bored with you | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
do not reoffend and gets it back in prison? That his idealistic and we | :16:22. | :16:28. | |
do have women that move on from our service and need more positive | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
lifestyles and are not involved in offending any more. But we have to | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
remember that some of these women that we work with have got very | :16:35. | :16:41. | |
complex backgrounds, as has just been referred to, and had been in | :16:41. | :16:46. | |
and out of custody for decades, and it takes a long time and a | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
sophisticated response in order to seize offending, it is not short | :16:50. | :16:59. | |
term. Thank you. Ian Hamilton continues his series | :16:59. | :17:01. | |
looking at the forthcoming local election around the country. He has | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
been to Moray where a coalition of Conservatives independent | :17:07. | :17:11. | |
councillors hold power. The closure of RAF Kinloss and the future of | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
RAF Lossiemouth have had a future on the economy, but will it affect | :17:15. | :17:25. | |
:17:25. | :17:39. | ||
the election? -- had an effect on For these the budding black belts, | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
when the eventually leave school, they have some big decisions to | :17:42. | :17:51. | |
make. Do they stay and try and make a live here or do they need and | :17:51. | :17:58. | |
seek out there fortune as were? They have to go away and leave the | :17:58. | :18:03. | |
area to study, so sometimes, they come back to the club, sometimes | :18:03. | :18:09. | |
they do not. There are not many apprenticeships, there is not a lot | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
of employment in this area have. A lot of children come out of school | :18:13. | :18:21. | |
and struggle for jobs. It is kind of running down a bit more now, but | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
it has got lots of countryside editor is a great place to bring up | :18:24. | :18:31. | |
children, definitely. -- and it is a great place. It is easy to | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
understand how people love living in Moray so much. Algar might only | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
be one hour from Inverness or 90 minutes from Aberdeen, but living | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
in this area has its drawbacks. What would you change about the | :18:43. | :18:50. | |
area if you could? Probably the road system is not very good. We | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
could do with the dual carriageway. As well as poor transport links, | :18:54. | :18:59. | |
the main gripe when I caught up with these musicians here was the | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
decimation of their traditional industries like fisheries. They | :19:02. | :19:08. | |
have also lost one of their two military air bases at RAF Kinloss | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
leaving only RAF Lossiemouth which has left a bad effect on the | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
economy. A lot of businesses depended done the RAF for | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
employment and customers and the local schools and hospitals had all | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
of the RAF wives in them teaching or helping and nursing, so it has | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
been a big blow to this area. lost the fishing industry and that | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
used to be a huge industry when I first went to RAF Lossiemouth. They | :19:36. | :19:46. | |
used to be 100 boats in the harbour. That was a huge challenge. This is | :19:46. | :19:53. | |
a family fish business. The smell of fish in the shop wasn't | :19:53. | :20:00. | |
unpleasant, but as I waded through fish guts in the preparation area, | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
the stench was overwhelming. They process two tons of fish every day. | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
My love for their started this business many years ago and they | :20:08. | :20:16. | |
had been years since I was 16. -- my father started this business. | :20:16. | :20:23. | |
Many of the Bowes is that supply him have gone. -- many of the boats. | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
We can manage ourselves, but sometimes we go further and further | :20:28. | :20:33. | |
away to get fish, so it is all about the changes. There are less | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
boats catching the fish. A lot of the jobs in Moray are low paid and | :20:38. | :20:43. | |
the wages that 5% lower than the Scottish average. There are younger | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
people wanting to do the factory job so it is difficult to get local | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
staff to do the job. A lot of the factories locally have foreign | :20:51. | :20:57. | |
people working for them. 75 % of companies in Moray are small, | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
family enterprises and in many ways, people's affection and commitment | :21:03. | :21:06. |