26/04/2012 Newsnight Scotland

Tonight on Newsnight Scotland: Does the First Minister have a

tycoon problem? I'll be speaking to the Deputy First Minister and the

Labour leader. And some words of advice for

aspiring councillors standing in next week's local election.

Good evening. Acting as a lobbyist for Rupert Murdoch, or promoting

Scotland's economic interests? The First Minister's justification for

meeting with the Murdochs is the creation of jobs.

This evening it has emerged he failed to disclose a meeting with

Mr Murdoch in 2008 in New York. I will be speaking to Johann Lamont

and Nicola Sturgeon in a moment. First, Derek Bateman watched the

tussle at first ministers' When you are a big hitter, you have

to expect to take a few shots yourself. This week, Alex Salmond,

Scotland's heavyweight first minister, has suffered a blow after

blow. In a flurry of jabs and hay makers, not just from the usual

sparring partners, but also from the world champions of the public

ring. James Murdoch used his name in the Leveson inquiry. He had

offered to beat supportive as sconces politician and leader.

there was Donald Trump, flailing wildly. He is denying stories on

the front page of the papers today, and it has nothing to do with me.

It was all a warm-up for first Minister's Questions. Johann Lamont

came out swinging. The revelation that Rupert Murdoch's newspaper

hacked Milly Dowler's phone was the moment any doubt was removed, it

was the moment the empire started to fall. But the first minister

became the only senior politician in this country, perhaps the only

one in the world, to invite him 15 years of worshipping at the feet

of Rupert Murdoch from the Labour Party, now treating him as a pariah.

Refusing to explain... Refusing to explain the contact... What people

in Scotland will see when they see Johann Lamont's and the Labour

Party's words, they all think of humbug and hypocrisy. He gave his

backing to Sir Fred Goodwin in a deal that broke the bank. The deal

with Donald Trump, and now Murdoch. There are common themes. Each case

was secret. Each deal was a fiasco. And in each case, the truth had to

be dragged out of the first minister. Bit by bit. That would be

Sir Fred Goodwin. Knighted by Gordon Brown on the advice of Jack

McConnell. Donald Trump, up until last Sunday, Donald Trump's

argument to the Scottish Government is that we were bound by a deal

that he claimed had been made between him and Lord McConnell in

the previous administration. kick-boxing Conservative leader

harried him over a dinner Old -- dinner in New York with Donald

Trump. Did the first minister intentionally mislead Parliament,

or did he just forget that at the glory of supping with Murdoch one

night, he had been supping with This was a global Scott dinner in

New York. Attending the event were the Alexandra Real Estates, the

General Electric... Etc, etc. don't think it sounds the likely

venue to be exchanging commitments in terms of planning application

for five years down the road. a left hook. Is he ashamed that he

put his political motives above those of the phone hacking victims?

I think the deplorable aspect of phone hacking will be fully dealt

with at the inquiry, and I hope fully dealt with by the police

force and judicial system on both sides of the border. If Alex

Salmond was grubby, it did not show. But -- groggy. But the real damage

may be the impression Labour tried No matter how precariously, he

retains his crown. I'm joined now by the Deputy First

Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, and by the Labour leader, Johann Lamont.

Johann Lamont, let's start on this meeting, this business that has

come up tonight, in April 2008 that was not declared in a list that the

Scottish Government produced. They are throwing their hands up and

saying they admit it is a mistake, isn't that fair enough? We made the

point that we had not been given the full information. The

relationship between the first minister and Rupert Murdoch hadn't

been revealed before the Leveson inquiry. We don't know the

significance of this admission but we are keen there is as much

transparency as possible. Do you think it is a significant

admission? It was a mistake and mistakes happen. There was a long

list of meetings and this was a simple error of admission and it

will be put right. The key thing, and this is the point that Johann

Lamont seems to miss, all of the first minister's engagement with

Rupert Murdoch, with Skye or anybody else are about promoting

Scotland's economic interests. want to deal with this meeting. You

have had the explanation that Alex Salmond offered, do you accept it?

It is a very odd explanation, it came very late. Your own programme

could not get anybody to explain the situation. It was 48 hours when

we heard nothing. If it was about jobs, why did we not know that the

first minister believed this deal was good for Scotland's jobs? He is

very good at arguing. To tell Westminster in his view what should

be done, why do we not know this? If it were about jobs, why did he

not do it? Why did he not meet with Vince Cable, Jeremy Hunt, if it

were about jobs? It seems it is a hard explanation to justify if you

look... The 40% ownership, total control, would that make the

difference in terms of jobs? We He has been completely transparent

in all of his dealings. Rupert Murdoch used to meet with Labour

ministers in secret. This nonsense from Johann about nobody knowing

Alex Salmond was standing up for jobs - he wrote a letter to James

Murdoch a dearer go in January. That was published in August. It is

all about jobs. Just because Johann did not see that, just because it

does not sit her argument does not mean it does not exist. It was

about the takeover. It was about other Skype jobs. The other point

is this - the first minister decides he wants to promote jobs in

Scotland, and was going on this morning about his call centre

opening up. It is not immediately obvious why that has anything to do

with supporting Rupert Murdoch taking over BSkyB. What the first

minister was prepared to do was argue that the economic interests

of the jobs aspect should be taken into account in the decision-making.

This call centre is going ahead anyway and it has nothing to do

with BSkyB. The first minister believed, I think rightly, that if

News Corporation had consolidated its ownership of sky, that would

have led to job enhance them. It is not going ahead so we will never

know. But he was also concerned about jobs in Glasgow that were

under threat because Skype were reducing their contact centres from

at nine up to two. He believed that the chance of retaining their jobs

in Glasgow would be retained if the takeover went ahead. Alex Salmond

has been working hard to make sure that Skype retained the jobs in

Scotland. That is what the first minister is there to do. -- Sky. It

is a belief that John is not first minister if she does not see that

the key role of the first minister is to promote the economic

interests of the Scotland. -- Joe one. What is the evidence that was

put before the Cabinet in terms of what the author was a from to James

Murdoch? What jobs would have come? To one's First Minister's question

was predicated on a mistaken belief that there had been job losses. --

Johann. His is perfectly acceptable - and I think you would accept -

that it is fine for a first minister to lobby in favour of

getting jobs for Scotland. It is another thing to intervene in a

takeover. He said he would make the case for the economic argument to

be taken into account. Circumstances changed and Jeremy

Hunt decided not to refer the bid to the Competition Commission. --

Competition Commission. What led him to believe that somehow jobs

would be adversely affected unless they got to own the whole of the

company? News Corporation made it clear they wanted to increase

employment in Scotland. Any first minister would be keen to encourage

that and any First Minister worth their salt would have been keen to

do everything possible to protect 800 jobs in this city of Glasgow

Vostok in that case, he would not have done it privately, and then he

would have done it. They are letters demonstrating... If it were

the case that it would protect jobs, he should have had a meeting with

Vince Cable or Jeremy Hunt. Murdoch's people said "mission

accomplished" and that he was onside. The is and the problem for

you and your party that giving you spend that the whole time you were

in government crawl into the Murdochs, you are not in a position

to criticise? -- isn't the problem. It is all right when you do it but

not when they do it? It no, no, I did not say that. I think the Milly

Dowler think really pulled people up shockingly. One thing about Alex

Salmond was that he won an election in 2007 and was not being supported

by the Son. He did not need Murdoch. Nevertheless he has continued. He

is the only senior politician who has continued to try to

rehabilitate a man... There is no connection between Alex some

understanding of four jobs and have the newspaper backing the SNP.

lot of people watching this will think that it is obvious what is

going on - Alex Salmond was currying favour with Rupert Murdoch

because he wanted his paper's backing. The son of back the SNP

last year for the same reason hundreds of other people did. -- of

the newspaper it back to. We now have a first minister who appears

willing to rehabilitate Rupert Murdoch and News International,

over which there were three police inquiries, one judicial inquiry...

Do you think Alex Salmon should not have tried to protect jobs in this

city? Bat is a separate issue and to know that per that be well. You

need to explain why, in July this year, six at SNP MPs said...

have to stop. We are merely out of time. Presumably you think Jeremy

Hunt should resign? Yes, because he had the legal responsibility.

you think the Murdochs were right to withdraw their bid or BSkyB?

Even though you supported it? was before anybody knew about phone

hacking. I am glad they did. The motion supported by the SNP said

that the bid should not go ahead. If they've revive their bid in the

future, would you be again prepared to lobby, all offer to lobby for

them? The Scottish government has a very basic test for anything - is

it in Scotland's interests? Do you think Rupert Murdoch and his family

are fit and proper people to own it newspapers and TV stations? No.

you? I totally condemn what happened with the phone hacking.

Yes or no. Rupert Murdoch is a big employers at... We will take that

as a yes. Why would anyone want to be a

councillor? Given the likes of street lighting, bin collections

and to other jobs, this is local level politics. We have been to

meet some retiring councillors with Why would anyone want to become a

councillor? We are at the bottom end of the political ladder. I have

come here to speak to three councillors who are standing down

at the next election. Between them, these three have over 60 years

experience in office. They believe that personality comes before party

politics at a local level. They vote at local government level for

the person rather than the party. I am quite sure the three of us would

agree that we know of people who are either with Mary's or Ian's

party and have voted for me, and they will tell you bluntly that

they will not vote for you in the general election because they are

voting for you, not the party. you are standing for election next

week, it might be worth listening to these old timers. If you are

married, your marriage has to be box solid because the partner who

is left to to look after the home at all the family - it puts a huge

onus on them because you are expecting to be away from that home

a lot as the children are growing up. There is homework to do it -

there are things to look after, and that is something that candidates

often do not think about. I can give one example for a person who

elected me at the council elections, and 10 days later it appeared that

my house door -- he appeared at my house door and said he did not want

to be a councillor any more and had not realised how much work was

involved. Despite all the training programmes the parties put people

through, when it they actually look... For your job starts at 8am

and often does not finish until 11pm. Do you feel like local public

property? One of my relaxations was playing golf and even though I say

it, I was a good golfer. I am not a good golfer it now because I

stopped going. As you would put on your shoes in the car-park, someone

would ask to see you about sheltered housing for their parents.

You would be thinking about that and you would miss your golf shot!

I have had phone calls. I think the earliest I had in the morning was

6am and the latest that might was at midnight, when someone phoned me

to ask what I was going to do about their cooker that had stopped

working. You should have told them to phone an electrician! I came

close to telling them something else! What is the one thing you

love about being a councillor? Someone came to you with the

problem and you were able to sort it out promptly. That brought great

satisfaction. Will you miss the influence that you had in the party,

to change things? I don't know if I ever had any. I find that really

interesting because I know what you mean. I don't think I ever had any

influence. You must have because you said you could phone up and

improve somebody's life. I could kid them on. A woman friend be once

about a hedge that needed to be cut. -- phoned me once. My husband had

been taking the call, went out and came back shortly afterwards and

said, "she is absolutely thrilled". She was just saying up the head had

been cut. One of the things that I did was to get a new sports stadium.

We got one last year. 23 years! That shows you the influence.

will leave a hole in your life after it made a third, so what will

you do next? -- after it 3rd May. collect whisky. I have also

collected wine for many years. It is it being a councillor that makes

you go to the drink! I am intending on going to watch it Motherwell in

the Champions' League. I will do more housework, my husband will be

delighted to know, because he has had to do it all these years! I am

not very good at that but I will have to do it. I have been saving

up to buy a piano and I will perhaps take music lessons and

learn to play the piano properly. Over lunch, I got the juicy gossip