14/05/2012 Newsnight Scotland

Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, 50p a unit - that will be the minimum

price Orok top assuming the government gets its way. Could a

legal challenge stop this policy? We will speak to the Health

Secretary. The undersea cable that could allow

Scotland and Norway to trade renewable energy.

If 50p is the magic number, the minimum price you will have to pay

for every unit of alcohol you buy from a supermarket or off-licence

from next spring. The Health Secretary in the Cup -- Nicola

Sturgeon has confirmed the figure one week before the legislation is

due to be approved. What difference met this policy make.

It was not so much a case of would the or would not they but when

would it be and how much? We all knew minimum unit pricing for

alcohol would happen but what would that minimum price be set at? 40p,

50p, 60p? In the end, health secretary Nicola Sturgeon bit the

bullet and made the announcement while visiting a ward at Glasgow's

Royal Infirmary where patients are being treated for liver disease.

According to the Scottish government. A 50% -- 50p minimum

price would mean a bottle of vodka price would mean a bottle of vodka

This is the big policy but it is addressing a big problem. Scotland

suffers huge would remark on misuse and it takes its toll some

individuals and communities. This policy is designed to reduce

alcohol-related deaths, hospital admissions, alcohol-related crime.

It is a policy that time has come. Research from chef at university

said that in the first year there will be 60 fewer deaths, 1600 fewer

hospital admissions and 3500 fewer crimes. They also reckon that over

The evidence we have of the model studies in Sheffield say we should

see a reduction in alcohol-related liver disease within two years

which is quite a short time frame compared with many public health

measures. The liver can regenerate very quickly. Therefore people who

are perhaps on the borderline of doing permanent liver damage, by

reducing their consumption can step back from the slippery slope. We

would hope they would be the first people impacted by this therefore

we would see a reduction in deaths quite early on. Pubs and hotels

have long been at the disadvantage to supermarkets who sell cheap

booze so they welcome us public health move because it also levels

the playing field. We have seen supermarkets giving alcohol away at

very low prices, ridiculously low prices. That cannot be allowed to

continue. As a first step, we think 50p is proportionate to the problem

and we think it will work. As a first step, the Government is to be

congratulated. But not surprisingly, some retailers and the drinks

industry have concerns about the potential impact. I think it will

have an impact. In terms of the alcohol and cider sales and spirits

sales. It will impact our sales. Alcohol forms a good proportion of

her business and anything that impacts that is of concern to me

and to retailers in general. It is ineffective, it will be ruled

illegal and it will harm the Scottish whisky industry. This will

give an excuse to use the health justified trade restriction to keep

Scotland out of other markets. We are an export industry and a huge

earner for Scotland Under for are earning capacity for Scotland is

damaged by Scottish policy, it is regrettable for the whole of

Scotland. Such concerns have raised the possibility of the legal

challenge. In the letter to the David Willetts warned that minimum

unit pricing was very likely to be deemed an illegal under EU

competition and trade lock and that the Attorney-General had advised

that the policy carried a significant degree of legal risk

and that any subsequent litigation would be complex and costly.

Because acts of the Scottish Parliament are open to legal

challenge, the road ahead could be bumpy for the Scottish government.

MSPs voted to end tobacco displays but the ban has been challenged and

courts delaying the introduction of legislation already passed by the

Scottish Parliament. Could the same happen with minimum unit price in a

bar called? -- alcohol. I spoke to the Health Secretary

Nicola Sturgeon and asked if she expected there would be a legal

challenge? I do not know. That is not in my control. What I do know

is this law will pass through the Scottish Parliament with an over

lone majority. The Greens and the Conservatives have also supported

it. We hope people will respect the rule of Parliament and we have

built a sunset clause into the legislation to take account of the

fact that people are sceptical and the impact of the policy. That

gives us the opportunity to test it and then in five years Parliament

can assess and evaluate it. Do you agree with the UK Government

analysis from David Willetts that the policy is likely to be deemed

illegal? The UK Government had decided to introduce minimum

pricing for alcohol falls up the position is clear, that minimum

pricing is not an Egle in itself but it does need to meet certain

tests. We have to demonstrate that it has sufficient health and local

and packs. That is why we have taken great care to set the unit

price so that we can demonstrate it meets those tests and I am

confident it well. Given what you have just said, it sounds like the

lawyers will have a field day the King to argue whether the policy is

proportionate in the way that you suggest that his or not. Is that

not the basis for a legal case? First, at any one the Scottish

Parliament passes has the potential to be challenged legally. On this

particular point, it has been fully debated in Scotland and this is the

second attempt the Scottish government has made. It was a key

part ever be election manifesto and it is going to be passed with an

overwhelming majority. It is time to give this policy a chance and

see what benefits can bring. We know from the Sheffield model that

it reduces alcohol-related deaths and alcohol-related crime and

hospital admissions. You tobacco control measures are delayed. You

have actually fallen behind the rest of the UK in that area because

one of the big tobacco firms is pursuing a case through the Supreme

Court. Why wouldn't one of the bike alcohol firms choose to do the same

for this policy? I cannot speak for them and do not have control over

the decisions that individual companies might or might not take.

Is the possibility open? Of course it is but that applies to every

single act of parliament that his past. As the 84 on the system?

We operate under the rule of law. am asking you if you think the

lovelock is right? He have the same tobacco control measures as the

rest of the UK. They were legally challenged as well just at

different stages. Our views on the Supreme Court and how it operates

in Scotland are well known but on the issue of minimum pricing, my

message is quite clear. Let us respect the will of Parliament and

allow this policy to be introduced and see the benefits that can bring.

I have built a sunset clause into the legislation because some people

are sceptical. I respect that but I believe this policy is going to

work so let's get on with it. you do end up in the courts? Then

we will vigorously defend any legal challenges because I believe this

policy complies with European law so we will vigorously defend any

challenge. That is a decision for others whether to bring such a

challenge. The original modelling for this was based on 35p a unit.

Fly 50p? Both the original modelling and the more recent

modelling modelled the impact of the range of prices from 35p up to

75p. We first introduced this policy 18 months ago and two key

decision that the right level to set the Pep -- price was 45p for

sup that was 18 months ago and the earliest this could be introduced

is April next year. If he factor in inflation,is a broadly equivalent.

Nothing to do with it being seen by the European authorities to have

enough of an impact to interfere enough in the market to be

justified? 50p today, or, more accurately next April, is broadly

equivalent in terms of impact to 45p 18 months ago because of the

effects of inflation. How will the policy be reviewed? Is at the first

step, might it escalate quite rapidly? What we have set today is

that after two years we will review the policy. We have to not only

start with a policy that is proportionate but ensure that it

remains proportionate. We will need to take into account other factors

that impact on price and the effect the policy was having so it needs

to be reviewed. That does not necessarily mean we will see

increases in price. That is something that will have to be

considered on a regular basis every two years. If England has 40p, the

current proposal, and you have 50p, why wouldn't lots of people go and

buy their booze and parallel? not sure if you were driving from

Glasgow the equation would work out if you factor in petrol costs.

Let's wait and see where the UK Government ends up. A few months

ago, they were not in favour of minimum pricing at all. They have

started consulting at 40p. I would not be surprised if the end up at a

higher level but that is the decision for them. What we have to

do is make sure we have a policy that meet the needs of Scotland and

let's remember the cost of alcohol misuse. It takes an enormous toll.

Would you welcome the same price both sides of the border? I would.

There would be advantages to that but I can only take a decision for

Scotland. What you say to the whisky industry who now fear that

governments around the world will have an excuse to penalise their

product? We support the whisky industry and arguing for fair

treatment but they do not think you can compare a policy for Scotland

but I believe is legal, proportionate and non-

discriminatory with disproportionate and illegal

measures from other countries. We will continue to support the whisky

industry for fair treatment. This is Labour's public health

spokesman. Do you agree with Nicola Sturgeon that it would be better

for there to be at the same price on both sides of the border? If we

need a minimum price, yes. A much better way of doing it as with

excise duty. The Labour government, as one of its last acts, used an

escalator on the excise duty and the Coalition government continued

that. The price of alcohol is already rising and that is the way

we would want to see it because it does not give a massive windfall

Given that we will have a minimum price, would you encourage the UK

to go for 50 pence per unit as well? There are disadvantages in

having a differential between Scotland and England. People will

travel south of alcohol is chipper. That has been seen in our land. --

cheaper. That has been seen in Ireland. What will happen to the

wind all profits that the companies will make? Nobody has looked at

this. -- a windfall. None of us by all our alcohol as cheap alcohol.

It could drive up the cost of premium brands. Some of the very

expensive brands may go up slightly. But we do not know yet how the

market will respond. The government has failed to look at this at all.

Is that of why they are introducing this health levy for sellers of

alcohol and tobacco. Some supermarkets do not sell tobacco.

Particularly been better off areas where there is less smoking.

you support that levy? We supported it in committee. We have said we

would support minimum pricing despite are up severe reservations,

provided that the government agreed to claw back that money. Why have

you got severe reservations when Westminster Labour are keen on the

idea? Andy Burnham has said it is something they will look at, but

they have not supported a yet. I think when they come to look at it

seriously, they will find that the reasons we have put forward for not

doing it... Yvette is not a Labour policy in England, why it is Diane

Abbott tweeting about it? -- if it is not. If you talk to a liver

specialists, they are concerned about young people getting there

were problems. The least affected by the policy will be the younger

age group. It also will not affect wealthier people. There are more

wealthy people with hazardous drinking than poor people. It might

not work, but why not supported and give it a chance? It is going to

happen. They have got a majority in the parliament. They can press

ahead with that. Will you vote for it? We will only vote for it if the

agreed to claw back this windfall. Our duty now is to make sure that

it is tested properly. Thank you very much.

With more evidence today that Scotland's private sector is

feeling upbeat, despite all the worries around the eurozone and the

double dip, the best explanation is the energy sector. Oil and gas and

renewable energy are doing well. Scotland's got a lot in common

there with Norway, which is where Alex Salmond went today to talk

energy. In particular, he was catching up with plans to lay a

subsea cable that would act as an innovative, two-way traffic in

renewable power, swapping our wind for their hydro. Douglas Fraser has

been in Bergen to find out more, and he reports that the costs of

Scotland has been making a splash On a much larger scale in the 1950s,

it was a toff like -- tough life. Norway's hydro industry is much

bigger depending on glacial melt and more reliable. Scotland's

relies on rainfall. That scale is why Norway is being seen as

important in answering the question of what happens to Scotland's wind

industry when the wind drops? When there is little demand for power at

night, Scottish 0 wind connects with Norway's much bigger resources.

It pumps water uphill to create more hydro-electricity.

increases your storage very substantially. It will drive down

prices and allow the great resources of Scotland and Norway to

be used it to the best effects. it will cost around �1.5 billion.

It will be ready in 2020. It is quite a long... We had these

environmental studies that will take one or two years. Then you

have the planning process in Norway and in Scotland. The power of the

rain is in a lot of demand in Norway. Other countries want to

have these cables as well. If there is a cable across to Scotland, it

emphasises that the opportunities of taking green power from remote

parts of Europe. There is a plan to bring energy from Iceland. I think

we can match two cables between Norway and the UK and then we will

see about the continental market. I see the future as an two cables

between Norway and the UK. There is plenty... If it is possible to

transport power long distances, why not bring solar power from Europe

and North Africa? The cost of Zola power is falling fast. This is a

report from the government industry advisers and the look at the cost

of the grid connections necessary to meet renewable energy target.

The cost has doubled in three years. The reason for the increase is the