03/07/2012 Newsnight Scotland

not be solved even by the best Tonight on Newsnight Scotland:

changing the law on corroboration - will it allow more convictions for

domestic violence and sexual crimes or will it just lead to more

miscarriages of justice? And is the tourist industry ignoring a

potentially lucrative market - people with disabilities?

Good evening. The Scottish Government looks set to go ahead

with far reaching reforms of the legal system, including the end for

the need for corroboration. That's where a piece of evidence has to be

supported by at least one other before a person can be convicted of

a crime. Some believe it's an outdated requirement which stops

some crime such as rape and domestic abuse being prosecuted,

but others have grave concerns about what the move could mean.

Corroboration. One of the most fundamental rules of Scottish

criminal law. Each piece of evidence must be backed up by

another. It has been an important safeguard against miscarriages of

justice. But is it now outdated? It has been with us for centuries

in Scotland but it has been watered down. It now appears anachronistic

and we are one of the future restrictions in the world but still

retains it. -- few jurisdictions. Ending the requirement for

corroboration was a key recommendation of a report last

year. The judge believed the system should be based on quality of

evidence, not quantity. Many prosecutors see the actual

need for corroboration as something which prevents cases from coming to

court. It was in balanced because it

required a numerical exercise, a quantitative test, that before you

can he do a prosecution you are required to have a core rated -- a

corroborative evidence. It did not matter, the quality of the events.

If you did not have corroboration, you could not get past go. That led

to injustices and unfairness. The debate is perhaps most intense

when it comes to cases of rape and domestic abuse.

We have had a number of survivors telling us how devastated they are

that their case has not gone to court. In sexual offences, it often

happens in private. It is difficult to get corroboration. What that can

mean is it can deny justice to survivors of sexual violence.

But the removal of corroboration could prove controversial. Some

believe it would be the removal of a cornerstone of Scottish law.

The first thing is that the government seems to have introduced

this consultation process, which on the face of it does not appear to

be a consultation process in that they seem to have already indicated

they have decided that this is what is going to happen. I consider that

the abolition of corroboration on its own, without considering other

aspects of changes to the legal system on the say-so of a single

judge, any relatively hastily organised review is not the way to

proceed. If it is to go, and certainly that

is the view, we are sympathetic to that. There have to be safeguards,

so the consultation is to make sure we look at what safeguards are

necessary if we are going to abolish the law.

If corroboration is abolished, we face a situation where you can have

a single witness speaking to an end cents, seven people might believe

that person and it a person could be imprisoned for murder.

Some are able believe the abolition may result in injustices unless

safeguards are put in. I'm happy to give an assurance that we will look

at putting it in those safeguards. That can weigh up the scales of

justice. The major protection, which has all

persons accused of crime is the standard of proof, which is beyond

reasonable doubt. We are clear that there should be no change in the

high standard. Says the government's decision on

corroboration a foregone conclusion? And was saved on its --

what safeguards could reassure sceptics?

I'm joined now by Derek Ogg QC, who is an advocate and the former head

of the National Sexual Crimes Unit, and from Aberdeen by Peter Duff,

Professor of Criminal Justice at Aberdeen University.

Why do you think abolishing is a bad idea?

It affects quality. The great thing about corroboration, ask anybody in

the street and they can't tell you what it is. But if you ask somebody

do think it is right somebody should go to jail for the most

serious crimes imaginable, have the reputation last, on the say-so of

one person who happens to, on the day they give evidence, perhaps be

a good actor? Is that right? Most people would say that is ridiculous.

If you said, well, which are like a system that gives a balance or

cheque or some other kind of back up, people would say that makes

sense. They would say, if my family were in the dog, I would not like

their liberty to do spend -- depend on one person.

Is there an argument on the other side?

Indeed. I listen to what Derek says with interest, but the fact is

Scotland's stance low among jurisdictions of its type. --

stands low. None of the other states have a requirement for

corroboration. In itself, that is evidence that the doctrine is not

necessary. Let me quote something from the

report. It said, in practice there's no evidence to support the

notion that the formal requirement for a correction -- corroboration

provides miscarriages of justice. Is there a need for concern?

Every single person who is defended in our criminal cases knows the

risks of conviction without corroboration. The summit to be

arguing -- for somebody to be arguing that other systems don't

have corroboration and they get by well, the only reason other systems

get by perfectly well is they have substituted for corroboration other

safeguards on the quality of evidence.

But why not do that here? They are looking at doing just that.

The report said there's no need for other safeguards. All you need is a

safeguard of prove be a reasonable doubt.

I hope I'm not getting is wrong. He said there should be a discretion

for the judge to warn of the testimony -- testimony I have --

testimony of a particular witness. In England, where they don't have

corroboration, they have the same sort of rate of conviction for rape

and sexual offences at we have in Scotland. But in England they have

safeguards like committal proceedings. They have safeguards

like a judge's power to take evidence away from a trial agitate

the evidence away from a jury. -- and to take. They don't exist in

Scots law because everybody says we The would you agree there needs to

be safeguards? There is simple majority verdict, which they have

in England, it either needs to be unanimous or 10 to two. Would that

need to be changed? I don't think it would necessarily have to be

changed, with the greatest respect, it is a bit simplistic to say that

the other systems have these safeguards against corroboration.

They are not purely because they do not have the option of

corroboration. Having said that, I am sympathetic to some of those

concerned by the removal of the doctrine, and I certainly don't

think it would be a bad thing to give the judge the power to remove

the case from the jury when he was convinced that no reasonable jury

could convict. Again, I do not see any reason why one could not look

at majority verdict in Scotland. Most systems have some kind of

majority system. It is structured. It may be that one might want

something of that nature. argument against what you're saying

is in cases of sexual crimes, which you were heavily involved are that

the Crown Office. Rape victims, of rape convicted without any

witnesses. The argument is without this, there is a miscarriage of

justice. It would be % that -- it would be perfectly plausible to be

prosecuted. The rights of a person accused are never in conflict, the

only thing that is in conflict is the right of a criminal and a

victim. All of the parties have the same interests, that there should

be a fair trial and a fair verdict. When I was in charge, Our watchword

was quality of evidence. What do you mean by that? Because of lazy

police work, you do not get a quality of evidence. People say

there were no witnesses, rape is a crime that uniquely takes place at

side of the presence of witnesses. That is not true, most criminals

try to take their crime I'd side of the presence of witnesses. -- and

side. But evidence is about damage to clothing, people screaming, what

happens afterwards. Circumstantial evidence can be used to corroborate.

The real problem of rape cases is, was their crime at all? That is

different from almost every other trial. I just want to bring in

Peter Duff. They are seeing the standard of reasonable doubt is all

the security you need. Many people would say that is not an argument,

but an assertion. I think one contrast juries and judges to take

a sensible attitude, very often in a rape case it is essentially the

word of the complainer against the word of it accused. The rules on

corroboration had been watered down to such an extent that they are

extremely complicated now. Sorry to interrupt you, we are out of time.

To be continued. The summer weather may be enough to

persuade most of us to flee abroad, but in the tourist industry there

is a largely untapped market that could improve their profits. People

with disabilities want to go on holiday just like everybody else,

so who is willing to benefit from Tourism is big business for

Scotland. It is estimated it is worth �4.2 billion for the Scottish

economy. But tourism experts believe it could be worth so much

more or if we targeted one particular niche of the market. The

streets of Edinburgh are filling up with tourists from all over the

world. I wonder how many of them have disabilities. If we targeted

it properly it could be worth millions. According to the last

figures available, disabled tourism brought in �325 million to the

Scottish economy. That is comparable to things like walking

holidays, sailing, golf. Could the tourism industry in Scotland be

missing a trick? I don't think people really understood the value

of the business case. There are 11 million people in the UK alone.

Only two met million of those take holidays. --? Million. The other 9

million say it is too difficult. We would like to make Scotland more

accessible so we get more of the international market coming over,

because they come for the golf, the sailing, the walking, the history.

The more accessible we can make Scotland to the American market, we

will be winning. When disabled access legislation was introduced

in the mid- 1990s, it forced the industry to rethink the disabled

customers. The need to see them as an opportunity and not a threat.

lot of hotels used to be scared of the Disability discrimination Act.

They were scared of being done by a disabled customers, and that is

just not the case. Now we realise with huge excitement there is a

market out there, a huge market for disabled people. Why didn't you

recognise that before? It is realisation. We move on, we have

all of our market and what goes on in Scotland. This realisation that

there is so many for collide disabled but not in wheelchairs,

you cannot see many of them. 96% of disabled people are not in

wheelchairs. It is not just the big boys benefiting, the smaller

operators have seen the opportunity to exploit this market. In some

ways, they might be better placed to provide a more or careful

service. It makes complete sense from a business point of view,

because you do not have exclusion of any guests who have an interest

in staying with you. There is no question of not letting people stay.

That doesn't come into your radar. You know that everybody can stay

here if it's what they're looking for. Lucy believes it is not just

about wraps and specialist showers. It is about having as -- having a

good attitude because that is what brings customers back. You might

not be able to create something with all the bells and whistles

that caters for everyone's needs, but when you make contact with

someone and tell them what you have. As long as you are honest, they are

very happy. The disabled market is very loyal. Once people find

somewhere they are happy with, hotel or bed-and-breakfasts, they

feel welcome, everything is done for them, they will go back time

and time again. Repeat business is massive. There is a threat to this

market, as benefits and pensions are squeezed, could there be less

people who can afford to go on holiday? The tourism industry in

Scotland will meet to work harder for that disabled Pound. Before we

go, an update on the Tornado jets that crashed into the Moray Firth.

The search for the missing air crew has been called off due to bad

weather, but will start again in the morning. Two crew were picked

up by helicopter and remain in hospital in Inverness. Some

wreckage has been brought ashore in Buckie, more is being washed up