09/07/2012 Newsnight Scotland


09/07/2012

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are no lending a hand had it seems Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, as

:00:09.:00:11.

the Greens look set to drop their backing for a multi-option

:00:11.:00:18.

referendum, does anyone want to put devo max on the ballot paper? And,

:00:18.:00:22.

mud may be expected at T In The Park, but as several other events

:00:22.:00:29.

are washed out, we'll look at the cost of this interminable rain.

:00:29.:00:32.

Good evening. To have a second question or not have a second

:00:32.:00:42.

question, that is the, er, question. The unionist parties all say they

:00:42.:00:45.

want more powers for the Scottish Parliament, but don't want a

:00:45.:00:55.

referendum question on that. Alex Salmond says he would prefer not to

:00:55.:00:59.

have a second question but is actively consulting on the

:00:59.:01:03.

possibility anyway. And now that Greens, who have supported a multi-

:01:03.:01:09.

option referendum, seem to be changing their tune. All clear?

:01:09.:01:14.

The second question is now the key battleground in the formulation of

:01:14.:01:20.

a referendum. An opinion poll out today suggests the reason why. When

:01:20.:01:24.

asked whether the Scottish government should negotiate a

:01:24.:01:28.

settlement with the government of the United Kingdom so that Scotland

:01:28.:01:33.

becomes an independent state, a 30 % of those asked a agree and 50 %

:01:33.:01:39.

said they disagreed. The rest would do not knows. But when the option

:01:39.:01:43.

of more powers short of independence was introduced, it was

:01:43.:01:49.

the most popular with respondents. 23 % still preferred independence,

:01:49.:01:57.

29 % said they wanted Holyrood's existing powers, but 37 % said more

:01:57.:02:04.

powers over tax and welfare was their first choice. Despite the

:02:04.:02:08.

relative popularity of further devolution, as suggested by this

:02:08.:02:13.

and other polls, none of the main political parties are demanding

:02:13.:02:21.

this option is on the ballot paper. The SNP won an election promising a

:02:21.:02:25.

referendum on independence. They say they can win an all-or-nothing

:02:25.:02:30.

battle, but they also know that losing could be deeply damaging for

:02:30.:02:34.

their party. That is why some nationalists want further

:02:34.:02:38.

devolution as a full-back. Others feared that including it would give

:02:38.:02:43.

voters an excuse not to back independence. Pro-union politicians

:02:43.:02:50.

say the SNP simply does not have a mandate for all multiple option

:02:50.:02:55.

referendum. All the pro-union parties say that they are

:02:55.:03:00.

considering more powers for the Scottish Parliament but do not want

:03:00.:03:03.

a detailed scheme on the ballot paper. They say multiple options

:03:03.:03:08.

could be confusing, that AGS no question is clearer and that the

:03:08.:03:14.

result would be more decisive. Until now, the Greens have favoured

:03:14.:03:20.

a multi- option fake. Now that seems to be in doubt.

:03:20.:03:26.

The Coke convenor of the Scottish Greens, Patrick Harvie, is here to

:03:26.:03:31.

explain all. What is the position ride now, do you win the Scottish

:03:31.:03:37.

Greens want further devolution on but palate? At the moment our

:03:37.:03:41.

policy is for a multi-option referendum. That policy was adopted

:03:41.:03:46.

a good few years ago. If you think back to when the Calman process was

:03:46.:03:50.

getting under way. We were arguing that as cold and lead process was

:03:50.:03:55.

the way to go, not carving it up between political parties, but

:03:55.:03:59.

something akin to the constitutional convention. That did

:03:59.:04:03.

not happen and we are now at the point of having to discuss whether

:04:03.:04:08.

or not a second question can be fairly all legitimately framed

:04:08.:04:13.

without that Scotland prices having taken place. A couple of people

:04:13.:04:20.

have tried to define devo max or devo plus, but I do not think

:04:20.:04:25.

anyone has achieved a degree of clarity that is needed. But we're

:04:25.:04:30.

not having a referendum mental bleak autumn of 2014, so is there

:04:30.:04:34.

not time for a detailed scheme to be worked out? Possibly, and that

:04:34.:04:39.

is one of the things we will be debating. You said earlier that the

:04:39.:04:43.

greens looks set to drop our support, but what we are said to do

:04:43.:04:47.

is to debate it. What is your pinking as one of the leaders of

:04:47.:04:51.

this party? The two factors that we need to debate a weather clarity

:04:51.:04:56.

can be achieved and by the political mandate can be achieved

:04:56.:05:01.

from the second question? Has the window closed on the need to get

:05:01.:05:07.

clarity, people knowing what they are voting on? What is your view on

:05:07.:05:13.

those points? Something which says something else but we do not quite

:05:13.:05:18.

known what, I do nothing that is a fair question. UK legislation would

:05:18.:05:24.

be needed for any further devolution short of independence.

:05:24.:05:27.

But that was the case when you are going for there to be another

:05:27.:05:34.

option, that has not changed. you had a very clearly defined,

:05:34.:05:39.

well understood, not just by politicians but by the general

:05:39.:05:43.

public, at clear understood scheme of what the next stage of

:05:43.:05:48.

devolution should be, then there is a clear case for saying that a

:05:49.:05:51.

referendum result represents a mandate that the UK government

:05:51.:05:57.

would have to respond to. But the referendum result in favour of

:05:57.:06:01.

something fake an undefined, I am not sure UK government would feel

:06:01.:06:06.

it had to be bound by that. This is about people deciding the future of

:06:06.:06:11.

their country. Image is not on the ballot paper, and if those people

:06:12.:06:18.

want more devolution, how do they go about getting it? Well, I'm

:06:18.:06:21.

afraid he earned the honest answer is I would not have started from

:06:21.:06:27.

here. If we had had that process there was there not just by

:06:27.:06:30.

political parties up by civil society in Scotland, defining what

:06:31.:06:34.

the terms of the referendum should be, then we would be able to put

:06:34.:06:41.

questions that people wanted to be asked. The Calman process and the

:06:41.:06:45.

national conversation were carved up by political parties and it is

:06:45.:06:48.

clear we have a situation where one of those parties has come out on

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top with a mandate for the referendum. Are you not part of the

:06:56.:07:03.

Campaign for a Yes vote? We will be campaigning for a yes vote. The

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thing that is missing at the moment is a kind of transformational

:07:07.:07:11.

vision the toaster that. The SNP seemed to think that independence

:07:11.:07:16.

as a campaign can be about, do not worry, nothing much is going to

:07:16.:07:21.

change. I think a campaign that his desire not to scare anybody offer

:07:21.:07:27.

also failed to inspire. Is that why you have not got on board with the

:07:27.:07:33.

yes campaign group for independence. When we took it at the last party

:07:33.:07:38.

meeting, because we have this quaint democratic process, there

:07:38.:07:43.

were no terms for a political party to join yes Scotland. Individuals

:07:43.:07:49.

could join up, but there was no shared decision. A shared decision-

:07:49.:07:53.

making process does now seem to be emerging so we will take that a

:07:53.:07:59.

party conference and the members, myself included, will decide our

:07:59.:08:04.

position in relation to the Yes Scotland, in relation to the second

:08:04.:08:09.

question, and other issues. So the SNP cannot take your backing for

:08:09.:08:14.

granted? They can take for granted absolutely that I personally will

:08:14.:08:22.

be voting for eight Yes vote for independence. But actually talking

:08:22.:08:26.

about what independence genuinely means for issues like the economy,

:08:26.:08:32.

the currency, democratic control of big business. The SNP seemed to be

:08:32.:08:36.

saying that none of these questions will change, these will all be

:08:36.:08:41.

things to think about after the referendum. My concern is that the

:08:41.:08:45.

people who were not going to be motivated by one flag or another,

:08:45.:08:50.

or national identity, those people who are as yet and can do is but

:08:50.:08:54.

not hostile, I think they need to be persuaded that this is about to

:08:54.:08:59.

transformational agenda, house, and can be a better society for us all

:08:59.:09:03.

to live in. Hibbert vision does not get articulated before the

:09:03.:09:07.

referendum I do not see why they will turn out and vote Yes in the

:09:07.:09:12.

way that I would like them too. Alex Salmond is not doing the job

:09:12.:09:17.

yet. I think the whole of the Yes campaign needs to articulate a

:09:17.:09:21.

transformational vision. He people want status quo, they will vote for

:09:22.:09:26.

it, let us not try to make independence that.

:09:26.:09:32.

It has been away too few weeks and wiles of us may not find that an

:09:32.:09:36.

expected in July, it is that is more of a worry for the tourist

:09:36.:09:42.

industry. At least two major events were washed out on Saturday and

:09:42.:09:51.

others have suffered during our dreich summer. Our report begins

:09:51.:10:01.
:10:01.:10:07.

with one weekend event which did It is the one big event when mud

:10:08.:10:14.

he's good. T in the Park may have been wet but it was no washout.

:10:14.:10:18.

Revellers there almost expect to get soaked and muddy. But while the

:10:18.:10:22.

exceptionally wet summer is no bloated T in the Park, what about

:10:22.:10:30.

other outdoor events? A fuel thefts in Edinburgh was cancelled, so, too,

:10:30.:10:37.

was the last Highland Games. -- a food event. And last month the

:10:37.:10:43.

Royal Highland Show was hit by bad weather. Visitor numbers may have

:10:43.:10:49.

been down by 20,000 but at least it went ahead. Overall, the bad

:10:49.:10:52.

weather risks causing further short-term damage to some parts of

:10:52.:11:02.

a fragile economy, including parts of the tourist business. Is it a

:11:02.:11:06.

risk that images of a rain-soaked Scotland discourage visitors from

:11:06.:11:11.

afar, or are they an opportunity to show that there is more to Scotland

:11:11.:11:15.

than the scenery and the great outdoors? Some of the most

:11:15.:11:19.

successful visitor attractions are open rain or shine, like the

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Riverside Museum in Glasgow. Can I have an ice-cream cone, please?

:11:29.:11:33.

Galleries and museums play an important role in the tourism

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industry and if anything, they can actually benefit from the rain,

:11:37.:11:45.

even the people selling ice-cream. And of course, it is not just our

:11:45.:11:50.

summer festivals but can fall victim to the weather. Edinburgh's

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Hogmanay party has been cancelled twice in recent years, but as the

:11:55.:11:57.

tourism industry needs to think more about having an all weather

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strategy. I am joined by Edinburgh -- from

:12:04.:12:07.

Edinburgh by Professor Joe Goldblatt, director of the Centre

:12:07.:12:13.

for the Study of Planned Events at Edinburgh University, and Professor

:12:13.:12:17.

John Lennon, director of the Moffatt Centre for Tourism at

:12:17.:12:23.

Glasgow Caledonian University. Does the better -- weather it matter?

:12:23.:12:28.

we ask tourists of why they come here, primarily it is our wonderful

:12:28.:12:32.

landscapes, our people, our history and our culture. And they seem to

:12:32.:12:37.

be able to put up with the weather. They do not come expecting the sun.

:12:37.:12:43.

So should we worry about the recent weeks and the amount of rain we

:12:43.:12:49.

have had in that period of time? Absolutely not. Professor Lennon in

:12:49.:12:57.

its actually incorrect. -- is absolutely correct. According to

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numerous studies, the two key factors that determine attendants

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are location and the uniqueness and value of the attraction on offer.

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In that regard, what we offer at blog Court Rules festivals is

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priceless. But what about the events that are called off or sell

:13:16.:13:22.

far fewer tickets as a result of the weather? In many cases these

:13:22.:13:25.

are long-standing financial problems, not just a catastrophic

:13:25.:13:31.

weather event but for one example, in the United States, an event in

:13:32.:13:36.

Pennsylvania had catastrophic weather last summer but as a result,

:13:36.:13:40.

they created a subscription scheme and people supported the festival

:13:40.:13:46.

to the tune of nearly 10% of the gross turnover, so additional funds

:13:46.:13:52.

game. Behind every rainy drought them might just be a golden rainbow.

:13:52.:13:57.

I wonder, John, even we can use our changeable weather to our advantage.

:13:57.:14:03.

Could we actually turn a bit of summer rain into an attractive

:14:03.:14:08.

prospect? I think the way we have marketed Scotland in the last five

:14:08.:14:11.

to seven years has been quite realistic. We have focused on a

:14:11.:14:16.

rugged, dramatic experience, not a Caribbean sunshine and blue sky

:14:16.:14:19.

destination. And I think that marketing is actually very

:14:19.:14:23.

appropriate for the tide of tourists who come. Whether they are

:14:23.:14:26.

coming from the Mediterranean, traditional long, hot summers or

:14:26.:14:30.

whether from the US or the Middle East or further afield, they are

:14:30.:14:37.

not coming up, or the fine from the research, because of our climate.

:14:37.:14:39.

His that back speakers are those who might come have already pulled

:14:39.:14:44.

us out? -- is that because those who might already come have brought

:14:44.:14:50.

us out? Tourists do know what to expect. They check the weather.

:14:50.:14:56.

They are up to speed. When the talk about festivals and events like T

:14:56.:15:01.

in the Park, the question you have to ask is 85,000 people a day still

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went to tea in the park. We have had washed down festivals in this

:15:05.:15:12.

country in these UK for a long time, Glastonbury. You cannot guarantee

:15:12.:15:14.

the weather but what you cannot guarantee is that people will

:15:14.:15:21.

continue to buy tickets. Do we need more set-piece events in our

:15:21.:15:26.

calendar, to boost tourism and should we really be thinking about

:15:26.:15:33.

a more indoor based strategy? is key is that we have a balanced

:15:33.:15:36.

portfolio of events throughout the entire year so that we are covering

:15:36.:15:42.

not only the PCS and which we already have saturated -- the peak

:15:42.:15:47.

season, but also the off-peak times. That is when the indoor facilities

:15:47.:15:52.

are increasingly important, but as Professor Lennon suggested, one

:15:52.:15:58.

example of this is T in the Park bursars Glastonbury. In our studies

:15:58.:16:01.

at Queen Margaret University, and we have found that people are

:16:01.:16:06.

subject Glastonbury not because of the talent on offer but because of

:16:06.:16:09.

the total environment will experience, and that experience

:16:09.:16:18.

includes mud and more mud. Whatever floats your boat! We have talked

:16:18.:16:22.

about out of season events, trying to join them up. The Government

:16:22.:16:28.

talks about a winter festival, from the St Andrew's Night celebrations

:16:28.:16:35.

through to Burns Night. Has that caught on as an idea? Yes. There is

:16:35.:16:38.

no doubt that events are big business. They can stretch the

:16:39.:16:43.

season. We have some world-class events, things like the Edinburgh

:16:43.:16:47.

Festival, Hogmanay. There is nothing to touch them. There is

:16:47.:16:50.

nothing but replication throughout the world. People trying to get

:16:50.:16:55.

close to what we do well. We have to understand their you will not

:16:55.:16:58.

always hit are those kind of goals with what you're doing but the

:16:58.:17:03.

events and festivals can help with our regional portfolio but also all

:17:03.:17:07.

year tourism and I think what is really Stott and to work and

:17:07.:17:13.

scholar now is the way we are mixing the sports agenda too many

:17:13.:17:18.

other festivals. -- what is really starting to work. All of that helps

:17:18.:17:22.

build Scotland as a destination people will want to visit, spent

:17:22.:17:28.

time in, do more and come back to. But it is true that politicians

:17:28.:17:33.

have set targets for the growth in tourism revenue, which have been

:17:33.:17:39.

very far-fetched. Is that because of global economic problems or just

:17:39.:17:42.

because the targets were unrealistic in the first Test?

:17:42.:17:47.

is because tourism not only contributes economic growth to a

:17:47.:17:54.

nation but it also lifts the spirit of the entire society. So by having

:17:54.:17:57.

this influx of visitors from international destinations, it

:17:57.:18:01.

promotes Scotland's identity throughout the world and at the

:18:01.:18:07.

same time, as in your last picture regarding independence, it helps us

:18:07.:18:11.

create a culture of greater self- confidence amongst ourselves.

:18:11.:18:15.

in terms of the performance of the sector, the various targets that

:18:15.:18:21.

have been set down the years, is it a sector that is performing well,

:18:21.:18:26.

all still underperforming? I think most recent data suggests our

:18:26.:18:32.

domestic tourism, from the rest of the UK, is quite buoyant. Our

:18:32.:18:37.

international visitation has shown a, if you like, stability. But you

:18:37.:18:41.

have to understand that is set against an economic recession that

:18:41.:18:46.

we have not seen since 1929. It is set against huge uncertainty in

:18:46.:18:52.

international markets, particular problems in EU -- in the US. What

:18:52.:18:59.

we are seeing in this is a shift from international duty domestic

:18:59.:19:04.

and also, in my view, a change in the way people book, the way they

:19:04.:19:09.

find out about what they are going to do. This summer, next summer or

:19:09.:19:18.

next week, in fact, as these time becomes shorter. So our targets are

:19:18.:19:20.

ambitious and Bob growth and a performance today has been very

:19:20.:19:25.

strong in what is one of the most competitive sectors in the world.

:19:25.:19:29.

There is hardly a location in the world that is not trying to be a

:19:29.:19:32.

tourism back at the moment. Scotland is performing well. Both

:19:32.:19:37.

of you, if there is one thing you could change, if you were in charge,

:19:37.:19:43.

what would it be? I think the most important thing would be to involve

:19:43.:19:49.

the average citizen in tourism. In other words, to create a campaign

:19:49.:19:52.

where all of Scotland turns to the rest of the world and says We Wish

:19:53.:19:58.

You were Here. In other words, to promote visitation at the ground

:19:58.:20:03.

level. Drive the experience. It must be a special place that people

:20:03.:20:08.

go, I cannot believe how good that was. At all levels. The even if it

:20:08.:20:14.

was raining? It might rain occasionally. Thank you the very

:20:14.:20:18.

much. Tomorrow's front pages. The Herald goes with another economic

:20:18.:20:23.

impact of bad weather, shopping bills to rise as crops hit by wet

:20:23.:20:26.

weather, in an exclusive it says farmers are bracing themselves for

:20:27.:20:31.

the worst heart is in 30 years. Prepared of the Scotsman, asked for

:20:31.:20:41.
:20:41.:20:42.

in the dock over bank chiefs like Paul testimony. -- LIBOR testimony.

:20:42.:20:50.

A picture from T in the Park. That is an end to this edition of

:20:50.:20:54.

Newsnight Scotland. You can watch a gain on the iPlayer and there is

:20:54.:21:04.
:21:04.:21:08.

more on the BBC website. Good There is more rain to come

:21:08.:21:12.

overnight. Outbreaks over many parts of the UK, then heavy rain

:21:13.:21:16.

developing and targeting parts of the Midlands going into the morning,

:21:16.:21:20.

the North and East Midlands in particular, thundery downpours into

:21:20.:21:25.

the afternoon. Some of those pop up in two Yorkshire as well. There is

:21:25.:21:30.

an amber warning from the Met Office to, potential disruption due

:21:30.:21:36.

to heavy downpours. Many grumbles of thunder. Across south-west

:21:36.:21:39.

England and Wales to end the afternoon, although there is a lot

:21:39.:21:45.

of cloud, some hints of brightness and mainly dry. But then maybe

:21:45.:21:48.

outbreaks of light rain affecting north-west England and Northern

:21:48.:21:52.

Ireland. Not a complete washout because it will be dry between the

:21:52.:21:58.

showers. Dry, too, do for the western fringes of Scotland but a

:21:58.:22:03.

lot of rain down the eastern side. That continues into Wednesday. You

:22:03.:22:07.

can see the rainfall, and disappointingly cool for the time

:22:07.:22:11.

of year. There may be some problems as the rainfall totals stop to add

:22:11.:22:17.

up. Cloud belts again for Tuesday and Wednesday, heavy downpours

:22:17.:22:23.

start to break out. You can see the rain falling and the showers that

:22:23.:22:26.

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