Browse content similar to 24/10/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight on Newsnight Scotland: The BBC has evidence that the | :00:10. | :00:12. | |
Rangers administrators knew the club's takeover was funded by | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
future ticket sales. So why did they deny it? | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
Also tonight: the row over the Scottish | :00:19. | :00:23. | |
government and Europe continues. The First Minister says he is | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
thinking about referring himself under the ministerial code. We will | :00:26. | :00:29. | |
ask the leader of the Liberal Democrats, who raised a point of | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
order on the issue yesterday, how he intends to pursue Alex Salmond | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
tomorrow. Good evening. Tonight, new | :00:35. | :00:39. | |
revelations in the Rangers case. The BBC has learnt that Duff and | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
Phelps, the Rangers administrators, knew that Craig Whyte's purchase of | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
the club was funded by future ticket sales. Duff and Phelps have | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
repeatedly denied that they knew this. The evidence comes in a taped | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
conversation between Craig Whyte and a senior Duff and Phelps | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
partner, David Grier. I am joined now by our investigations | :00:55. | :01:05. | |
:01:05. | :01:07. | ||
correspondent. Three what is going on? Back in May, we revealed | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
allegations that Duff and Phelps, the administrators of Rangers, had | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
been involved potentially in a conflict of interest so serious | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
that they should not have accepted the appointment as administrators | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
in the first place. This involved a series of e-mails between the | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
takeover team have, of which Duff and Phelps were a key part, which | :01:25. | :01:34. | |
appeared to show that they had intimate knowledge of the hated | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
Ticketus deal. Their senior partner, David Grier, categorically denied | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
that at the time of the Craig Whyte takeover of Rangers, he had any | :01:42. | :01:47. | |
knowledge that funds from Ticketus were being used to acquire the club. | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
He said the accusation was wrong and defamatory. But the secret | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
recording you are about to hear not only shows that David Kirov Gough | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
and Phelps knew all about the Ticketus arrangements, but that | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
they were rigorously pursuing a line of denial because they thought | :02:02. | :02:12. | |
:02:12. | :02:47. | ||
This was in a restaurant. Where does the take come from? This | :02:47. | :02:54. | |
conversation was recorded by Craig Whyte with David Grier on 31st May | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
this year, just a week after the BBC broadcast its programme. This | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
tape will form part of an upcoming case, ironically brought by Duff | :03:03. | :03:11. | |
and Phelps on behalf of a Rangers creditor. We have taken two steps | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
to ensure its provenance, and we have had a voice recognition expert | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
confirm that the voice is indeed that of David Grier. And you will | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
presumably be passing this on to the various Lordships and | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
institutions who are investigating this? There are two investigations | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
currently running into Duff and Phelps. The first is by the | :03:34. | :03:40. | |
industry regulator. The second is by Lord hotch, Scotland's most | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
senior insolvency judge. They are both looking into the BBC's | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
allegations on whether or not the appointment was excepted correctly | :03:48. | :03:55. | |
by Duff and Phelps. We are aware that both ignored Hodge and the | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
others are aware of tonight's broadcast. This gets terribly | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
complicated. The basic issue here is that Duff and Phelps, the | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
argument goes, should not have been the Rangers administrators if they | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
were involved with Craig Whyte prior to the company going into | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
administration. This means that not only they were involved with Craig | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
White, but they knew about the structure of the takeover, despite | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
denying previously that they knew anything about it? The Ticketus | :04:28. | :04:34. | |
deal effectively allowed Craig Whyte to buy Rangers, which is now | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
facing liquidation. The company will be liquidated within a | :04:39. | :04:49. | |
:04:49. | :04:49. | ||
fortnight. This was the deal that helped collapse Rangers. There is a | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
hearing coming up on 31st October. This is a crucial hearing. It is | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
Before Lord Hodge. At the hearing, Rangers will be officially | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
liquidated. The administration will end and will be passed on to the | :05:03. | :05:08. | |
liquidators. This is when Duff and Phelps' fees can be discussed. | :05:09. | :05:15. | |
Their fees could you stand at �3.1 million, but that has to be | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
ratified by the court. Hovering over all of this are these two | :05:20. | :05:26. | |
investigations. So there is still a long way to go in this story. | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
it the case that the fund Phelps may have more to worry about Dan | :05:30. | :05:36. | |
Money? Only a week or so ago, when we ran the interview with Craig | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
Whyte, they reacted at that time by saying that any allegations against | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
them were not just allegations against the company, but they are | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
acting as administrators in a sort of quasi judicial capacity? | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
Administrators of a failing company are agents of the court. They have | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
a code of conduct they must appear to. There are two interesting | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
things about this. We don't know what Duff and Phelps told Lord Hogg | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
at the time of their appointment about their prior involvement with | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
Craig Whyte and whether they knew about the hated Ticketus deal. | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
Secondly, after the BBC's allegations, Lord hotch | :06:15. | :06:21. | |
specifically asked Duff and Phelps for a report about the allegations | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
and whether there was a conflict of interest and they did know about | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
the Ticketus deal. We don't know what Duff and Phelps told Lord a | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
haunch, but I am very curious about what they did tell him at that time | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
and whether that ties in with what we have heard on this recording. | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
What are Duff and Phelps a saying about all this? They released a | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
statement just over an hour ago. It runs like this. "as we have | :06:48. | :06:54. | |
previously stated, Duff and Phelps maintain that our conduct of the | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
administration was carried out to the highest standards. We do not | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
respond information taken out of context, as we believe it is the | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
case in this BBC story. We welcome the opportunity to review a | :07:06. | :07:15. | |
complete copy of the information Now, the First Minister is | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
considering reporting himself under the ministerial code, amid | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
accusations of lying, misspending public money and misleading the | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
public, all in connection with the issue of law officers' advice on | :07:23. | :07:25. | |
the place in the EU of an independent Scotland. Mr Salmond | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
denies any wrongdoing, and his office reminds callers that he has | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
been reported five times already under the ministerial code, and | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
exonerated five times. In a moment, we will hear from the leader of the | :07:34. | :07:40. | |
Liberal Democrats, after this report. | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
We were told by the First Minister that he had legal advice about | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
Scotland's place in the European Union in the event of independence. | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
It turns out they didn't have any legal advice at all. This shows | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
that when you'd shine the spotlight on the case of full -- case for | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
separation, it falls apart. The a maybe smiling through the pain, but | :08:00. | :08:05. | |
even the SNP would be hard pushed to say that yesterday was a good | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
day for the Government. In the afternoon, Nicola Sturgeon had | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
stood up in the chamber and said the Government would be seeking | :08:13. | :08:19. | |
legal advice from the law officers on the EU membership issue. | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
Scottish government has previously cited opinions from a number of | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
eminent legal authorities, past and present, in support of the | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
independent Scotland. Or there! support of its view that an | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
independent Scotland will continue in membership of the European Union, | :08:36. | :08:42. | |
but has not sought specific legal advice. However, as the Edinburgh | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
agreement provides the exact context of the process of obtaining | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
independence, we now have the basis on which specifically device can be | :08:51. | :08:59. | |
sought. Is this a point of order, Mr Martin? For some MSPs, eyebrows | :08:59. | :09:06. | |
were raised. They thought they had heard something else in the past. | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
Paul Martin called Alex Salmond a bare-faced lie in a press release. | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
He was referring to an interview earlier this year with Mr Salmond | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
and Andrew Neil. The First Minister gave some viewers the impression | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
that legal advice had already been sought by the Government. Have you | :09:21. | :09:27. | |
sought advice on this matter? have, yes. What did they say? | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
can read that in the documents we have put forward. The First | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
Minister said he was referring to the wider debate on Scotland's | :09:34. | :09:41. | |
future. The opposition parties and most newspapers scoffed. The deputy | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
First Minister took up the defence. On this programme last night, he | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
said there was no case to answer, that the Government had taken | :09:49. | :09:55. | |
general legal advice, not specific advice on Europe. Any fair-minded | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
person who reads the entire transcript of that interview would | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
see that he was talking about the general debate. He cited a number | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
of legal opinions. He was also talking about general government | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
documents, all of which are underpinned by law officers' advice. | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
Did Alex Salmond Pele feared, or was he just misunderstood? Maybe | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
the real issue is, what is the government's relationship with its | :10:23. | :10:30. | |
own lawyers? I know, I'll ask a lawyer. The ministerial code is | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
public. That gives guidance as to when opinions should normally be | :10:36. | :10:43. | |
sought from the law officers. But it is not especially detailed. | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
There may be its internal practices about when legal advice should be | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
sought. You would expect an important public statement which | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
took a definite legal position on an important issue to have been | :10:54. | :11:00. | |
based on legal advice. In the past few years, the government has | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
released several documents saying that an independent Scotland would | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
stay in the European Union. So why did Nicola Sturgeon say yesterday | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
that the Government was still to seek legal advice on the issue? | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
Does the signing of the Edinburgh agreement make this possible now? | :11:15. | :11:22. | |
The statement by the deputy First Minister said that now that the | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
agreement had been reached between the Scottish and UK governments on | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
the referendum process, the way was now clear to seek formal legal | :11:31. | :11:37. | |
advice from the law officers. I am not sure that is entirely | :11:37. | :11:43. | |
convincing. If the Government had already made up its mind to prepare | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
the path towards independence, as it obviously had done, then it was | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
open to it to seek legal advice on the question of membership of the | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
European Community at an earlier stage. I don't think the signing of | :11:56. | :12:02. | |
the agreement is an important change in relation to the question | :12:02. | :12:07. | |
of when you would seek legal advice. The Government say they never | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
sought specific legal advice on the EU question before now, and that | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
Alex Salmond did not say they had. And nobody outside the SNP could | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
believed he was saying anything but the fact that he had legal advice. | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
He kept referring to the legal advice. He had ample opportunity to | :12:24. | :12:31. | |
say he had not asked anyone about this, but he did not. Confusion or | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
cover up? Maybe the question should be, when his legal advice not legal | :12:35. | :12:44. | |
I'm joined now from Edinburgh by Liberal Democrat leader Willie | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
Rennie, and by the SNP's Stewart Maxwell. Do you accept the | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
explanations that the Government have offered? I have tried to | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
understand it. I have tried to put myself in the position of Alex | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
Salmond and understand his and Nicola Sturgeon's explanation. For | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
the life of me, I just can't. He says on one hand that he did and | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
then he didn't receive advice, general advice - I don't understand | :13:08. | :13:14. | |
what the point is they are trying to make. What is fundamental is | :13:14. | :13:23. | |
that the whole basis of their case for continuing has now collapsed. | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
Just on this specific issue because you I think accused them of | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
misleading Parliament. I did. you, in the light of their | :13:32. | :13:38. | |
explanations, in a mood to let that rest? I think the avenues open to | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
us are quite limited now. I think the public will clearly see who was | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
being clear about this issue. And the SNP were certainly not clear | :13:48. | :13:54. | |
about this. Alex Salmond's words were very clear. He said, "We have | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
sought advice, yes." He made it clear at the time and he | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
contradicted it. It is a muddle. I think we probably need to leave it | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
to the public to decide who was being straight about this. Stewart | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
Maxwell, do you think Alex Salmond should refer himself under the | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
Ministerial Code, as he says he is thinking of doing? It is entirely a | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
matter for the First Minister. It is not for me to say whether he | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
should or shouldn't. I understand he has received a letter from a | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
Labour Member of the European Parliament. He will consider the | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
contents of that letter and then respond. That is a matter for the | :14:30. | :14:36. | |
First Minister. Right. You are completely unconcerned about how | :14:36. | :14:43. | |
this looks from an SNP point of view? I'm concerned about the fact | :14:43. | :14:53. | |
:14:53. | :14:53. | ||
the Labour Party are throwing around words "liar" and "conman". | :14:53. | :15:02. | |
Hang on, Willie Rennie made his point in a reasonable way, he said | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
you had been misleading the public and that the public would make up | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
their minds? Gordon, I said it was the Labour Party had been using | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
this kind of language. I accept that Willie Rennie has not done | :15:15. | :15:22. | |
that. He has made accusations. It is quite clear the First Minister | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
has at no point said there is legal advice on this matter. He has | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
always stuck to the point of principle on the Ministerial Code | :15:30. | :15:35. | |
which says they can neither confirm nor deny legal advice on this | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
matter. That is the normal process for every single Government, both | :15:39. | :15:44. | |
in Edinburgh and in London, and always has been. Which would be | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
tremendously convincing hadn't Alex Salmond appeared to say the | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
opposite in the interview he did with Andrew Neil? I have the | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
transcript in front of me here. Let's not get into that again! | :15:56. | :16:02. | |
think it is important because what Labour have done is they have made | :16:02. | :16:08. | |
up a quote. They have accused the First Minister of lying which is | :16:08. | :16:15. | |
disgraceful. The transcript... have missed out... They have... | :16:15. | :16:21. | |
sounds like 27 shades of desperation? That is ridiculous. | :16:21. | :16:24. | |
The 27 words are crucial to the context of the answers that the | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
First Minister gave. He was talking about the - he referred to the | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
published documents which the Government have put out. Those | :16:34. | :16:42. | |
documents are in the normal process of events, they go through... | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
We - you are in favour of independence, are you? Of course I | :16:47. | :16:52. | |
am. Can we check, you are in favour of independence for Scotland. When | :16:52. | :16:59. | |
you say you are in favour of independence, we didn't think you | :16:59. | :17:09. | |
:17:09. | :17:10. | ||
were in favour of independence for Finland, Latvia. What you mean is | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
independence for Scotland? Well, of course, I mean independence for | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
Scotland. I'm checking. That is a ridiculous statement. The First | :17:19. | :17:25. | |
Minister didn't say yes to the question. He did actually. That's | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
all he said, was it? What he said was - if you want me to read the | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
transcript? Yes, in terms of the debate and he was interrupted. He | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
went on to explain in terms of the documents published by the Scottish | :17:39. | :17:44. | |
Government. I was interrupted again. The fact is he did not say yes, he | :17:44. | :17:50. | |
explained the circumstances of that advice. The fact is - I can | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
understand why opposition politicians want to make hay over | :17:54. | :18:03. | |
this issue. What about that point - before we need a PhD to carry on | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
this conversation, the point is, it doesn't really matter very much, | :18:08. | :18:16. | |
does it? Sorry. It does because it is a matter of substance. This is | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
about whether Scotland would be a new or continuing member of the EU. | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
The SNP have just looked at whether Scotland would adopt the pound. I | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
think they now need to set out the consequences of joining the euro. | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
The people when they are going to the referendum, they need to | :18:32. | :18:42. | |
understand... Hang on. That's not fair because you can accuse the SNP | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
of talking humbug over this interview, but the SNP have been | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
clear, they will make this whole business - they are not saying they | :18:49. | :18:56. | |
are not going to do that. It is not fair to say that?, They have so far | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
set out in great deal how you would keep the pound. They have not set | :19:01. | :19:09. | |
out in any detail at all - another real possibility that we would join | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
the euro. Of course we wouldn't. That is nonsense. No. Stewart, what | :19:13. | :19:23. | |
happens if you are wrong? What happens if you are... We... We... | :19:23. | :19:28. | |
Let me give you one solid example. Can you hold on a second? If we end | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
up as an independent nation and you are wrong, and we do not get to | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
keep the pound because we are regarded as a new member of the | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
European Union, we will have to adopt the euro. And the strictures | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
for joining the euro are quite severe. You would have to reduce | :19:43. | :19:51. | |
the deficit as a percentage of the GDP from 7.4% to 3%. That is a �5 | :19:51. | :19:58. | |
billion cut. That is a fantasy. Let's look at the... I'm sorry | :19:58. | :20:04. | |
interrupt. For the sake of taking this somewhere different, the | :20:04. | :20:12. | |
Herald are reporting that the Spanish Foreign Minister, they | :20:12. | :20:17. | |
quote him about what Scotland's position would be and he says, "In | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
the hypothetical case of independence for Scotland, Scotland | :20:20. | :20:30. | |
:20:30. | :20:34. | ||
would have to join the queue and ask to be admitted." Is that right? | :20:34. | :20:40. | |
No, it's not right. Scotland... is the Spanish Foreign Minister. | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
He's the Spanish Foreign Minister. I don't see what the relevance of | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
that is. It is not relevant? Right, OK. There is no circumstances and | :20:49. | :20:55. | |
no rules within the EU to expel a member state from the European | :20:55. | :21:02. | |
Union. Sweden is in the European Union but is not adopting the euro. | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
That is evidence that we would not be adopting the euro. We would be | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
taking the pound. That is quite clear. We will have to leech it | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
there. Sorry, willy -- leave it there. Sorry, Willie Rennie, we | :21:15. | :21:20. | |
will come back to it. The NHS crisis as boards forced to take | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
loans. Dozens of A-roads to have speed limits cut is the lead in The | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
Scotsman. One last thing before we go. The | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
world of folk music is poorer tonight for the death of the singer, | :21:32. | :21:34. | |
songwriter and proud Dundonian, Michael Marra. We'll leave you with | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
a snippet of him playing his song Farlow at the Blas Festival in 2009. | :21:38. | :21:44. | |
Good night. # There's love in this world for | :21:44. | :21:50. | |
everyone # Every rascal and son of a gun | :21:50. | :21:56. | |
# It's for the many and not the few # Be sure it's out there looking | :21:56. | :22:03. | |
for you # Every town in every state | :22:03. | :22:10. | |
# Every house and every gate # With every precious smile you | :22:10. | :22:20. | |
:22:20. | :22:33. | ||
make Hello. By the end of this week, it | :22:33. | :22:36. | |
will feel like we have slipped forward into late December. | :22:36. | :22:42. | |
Thursday is more of a transition day. | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
Further north, some bright spells developing through the afternoon. A | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
little bit of patchy rain here and there. It won't amount to very much. | :22:49. | :22:54. | |
Still on the mild side across the south. 13, 14, possibly 15 or 16 | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
degrees. Patchy rain across South West England, across South Wales | :22:58. | :23:04. | |
through the afternoon as well. As you head further north, across | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
North Wales, a better chance of seeing some sunny spells coming | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
through during the afternoon. A fairly bright day all in all across | :23:11. | :23:17. | |
Northern Ireland. Much of Scotland, some sunny spells | :23:17. | :23:23. | |
through the course of the day. Look at that temperature in Lerwick, 2 | :23:23. | :23:33. | |
:23:33. | :23:35. | ||
degrees. From Thursday into Friday, everywhere is turning colder. | :23:35. | :23:40. |