Browse content similar to 23/01/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, more on the EU referendum debate. We'll | :00:12. | :00:15. | |
ask the External Affairs Minister and the Deputy Leader of the | :00:15. | :00:18. | |
Scottish Tories what effect it'll have on that other referendum | :00:18. | :00:24. | |
campaign. And is support building for independence? The annual Social | :00:24. | :00:34. | |
:00:34. | :00:35. | ||
Attitudes Survey has some suggestions. Good evening. David | :00:35. | :00:40. | |
Cameron has made a pledge to a referendum on Europe if the | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
Conservatives won an outright majority at the next general | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
election. An election that will be held after the independence | :00:46. | :00:53. | |
referendum. How will the debate and Europe affect the debate here? | :00:53. | :00:59. | |
It began in 1973 when Edward Heath took Britain into Europe. 40 years | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
later, the relationship still dominates the thought of a | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
Conservative Prime Minister. It is an issue that guarantees David | :01:07. | :01:13. | |
Cameron and attentive audience. As the country sat down to breakfast, | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
he delivered a much anticipated speech. The content came as no | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
surprise. The next Conservative manifesto in 2015 will ask for a | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
mandate from the British people for a Conservative Government to | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
negotiate a new settlement with our European partners in the next | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
Parliament. When we have negotiated that new settlement, we would give | :01:35. | :01:42. | |
the British people are referendum with a very simple in or Howard | :01:42. | :01:49. | |
tries. The plan is to give people their say on Europe. The stroke of | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
a pen last October committed David Cameron to a more immediate test of | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
public opinion. When it comes to Scottish independence he says his | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
attitude is similar. We should trust the people, give them that | :02:01. | :02:06. | |
choice. That is why there will be a referendum on whether Scotland | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
stays in the United Kingdom. I passionately believe Richard and I | :02:10. | :02:15. | |
hope it will. It is the same on this issue. You can put your head | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
in the sand and pretend that somehow this is you will go away | :02:18. | :02:24. | |
and that somehow events will turn out all right. -- this issue. That | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
is simply incredible. Those on the other side of the independence | :02:28. | :02:34. | |
debate pounced on what they saw as double standards. Why does the | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
Prime Minister think the Scottish referendum process is too long but | :02:38. | :02:45. | |
five years is all right? Back in Edinburgh, the theme of uncertainty | :02:45. | :02:53. | |
was one that Alex Salmond want to. It blows at huge hole in the | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
Unionist parties are denied. The Scottish referendum is next year. | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
The European referendum he is talking about is in five years. | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
There is painfully little detail on what he is trying to do. Some of it | :03:07. | :03:13. | |
is bizarrely contradictory. First Minister was touring a | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
technology firm in the new bridge that exports 40% of the microwave | :03:16. | :03:22. | |
components to Europe. The boss says David Cameron's pledge to hold a | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
referendum on Europe will not change how they do business. | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
uncertainty will not help. There are strong trade links. There would | :03:33. | :03:41. | |
continue. -- they would continue. On Scotland's most northerly | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
streets there was less certainty. We made the need a little more | :03:45. | :03:51. | |
autonomy in relation to our own situation. I think we should stick | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
with Europe. There have been a lot of complaints about the European | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
Union. I think David Cameron was quite right to let the people | :04:00. | :04:08. | |
decide. Tied up in others are questions about what Scottish | :04:08. | :04:15. | |
independence would mean for new membership. Nicola Sturgeon | :04:15. | :04:24. | |
welcomed the European Union's neutrality. Were the first minister, | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
this has been sticky territory recently. This morning, he sensed | :04:28. | :04:36. | |
an opportunity. Those who have been arguing that at an independent | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
Scotland makes our position in Europe on certain have been | :04:40. | :04:47. | |
nullified by this statement. It comes from the convoluted politics | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
on the banks of the Thames just now. David Cameron's speech introduces | :04:52. | :04:58. | |
another layer to a constitutional debate fall of ladies. For the | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
voters responsible for shaping the final outcome, it promises to be a | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
busy few years. I'm joined now by the Minister for External Affairs, | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
Humza Yousaf, and from Edinburgh by the Deputy Leader of the Scottish | :05:09. | :05:17. | |
Conservatives, Jackson Carlaw. I had been trying to pay attention | :05:17. | :05:23. | |
to David Cameron. I have been asking myself what exactly he wants | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
repatriated from Europe. From all the Conservatives I have listened | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
to today, I have worked out you want junior doctors to work longer | :05:31. | :05:37. | |
hours. What else would you like repatriated? The Prime Minister | :05:37. | :05:44. | |
identified a number of key areas. We're talking about areas. But | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
areas are not specific things. Apart from making junior doctors | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
work harder, what is it you would like to be able to do in Britain | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
that you cannot do now as part of the European Union? I think the | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
first thing is we would like more democratic accountability for the | :06:01. | :06:07. | |
UK Parliament. We would like a more decisive say over issues that hour | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
concerned with us. That is not specific. Give us an example. Be | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
warned people in Britain not to have the protection of health and | :06:18. | :06:24. | |
safety? -- do you want. Specifically it is his use like | :06:24. | :06:33. | |
that. Like what, for example? What health and safety regulation should | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
we not have in Britain? We went into a European economic Community. | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
We believed that the European Union should be relevant to the people of | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
Britain in terms of the economic environments in which we operate. | :06:45. | :06:51. | |
We do not as a party believe that the wider dynamic of moving to a | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
United States of Europe is in the interest of the people of the | :06:54. | :07:00. | |
United Kingdom. That is what we want to prevent. David Cameron | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
talked about repatriating powers. Give me a single example. He | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
mentioned environmental legislation. Which bit of environmental | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
legislation that Europe has would you like to see us not have? | :07:14. | :07:20. | |
seem confused by this. I do not think other people are. We want a | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
rebalancing in the relationship between the United Kingdom and | :07:23. | :07:30. | |
Europe. That is what the public feels needs to be done. There was | :07:30. | :07:37. | |
nothing specific? Other than junior doctors. Of course it is specific. | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
It is specific that went the referendum comes, there will be | :07:42. | :07:50. | |
every balanced settlement. Yes, you are already said that. Do you | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
really think and the SNP there is no need to repatriate any powers | :07:55. | :08:05. | |
:08:05. | :08:06. | ||
from the EU? Yes, we will negotiate our terms. We have already said, we | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
will negotiate our terms of continued membership. We will be | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
robust in terms of defending our interests. We see ourselves as | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
being an engaging partner. It is not a bad grandstanding, puffing | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
out your chest threatening to repatriate powers. I remember | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
talking to Alex Salmond on this programme and he told me all about | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
how you would not accept the Common Fisheries Policy and he wanted it | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
abolished, or at least changed beyond recognition? I have made the | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
position clear. It is not about going in there and demanding | :08:43. | :08:50. | |
repatriation of powers. You do not need to find out specifics from me. | :08:50. | :09:00. | |
:09:00. | :09:01. | ||
We have spelled out things like being part of a common travel area. | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
Presumably you would like to give the people of Scotland the | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
opportunity to vote? There is a referendum in 2014. We will spell | :09:09. | :09:17. | |
out in the White Paper this year exactly... Would you agree with | :09:17. | :09:25. | |
David Cameron in negotiations on Europe? Is negotiations are not | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
even begin until 2015. The story about the referendum, and we're | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
talking about the Scottish Senkel, is that absolutely these arguments | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
have been blown out of the border. There is uncertainty about the | :09:39. | :09:45. | |
Scottish referendum. You are reluctant to talk about specifics. | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
You will have to negotiate Scotland's position in the European | :09:48. | :09:54. | |
Union. You have said you do not want to join the euro. You want | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
changes in the fisheries policy. Will you give the people of | :09:57. | :10:07. | |
:10:07. | :10:12. | ||
Scotland the chance to say yes or no to what you have negotiated? | :10:12. | :10:19. | |
Because in 20th November 13 we will be spelling out -- in 20th November | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
13 will be spelling out what we want to see. In this referendum | :10:24. | :10:31. | |
campaign, will you be campaigning on the Yes or no side? I will be | :10:31. | :10:37. | |
campaigning on the Yes side. It is the renegotiated settlement that I | :10:37. | :10:47. | |
believe is right for the United Kingdom. Just as I can envisage a | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
United -- an independent Scotland, I can envisage a United Kingdom | :10:52. | :11:02. | |
:11:02. | :11:03. | ||
Matip Europe. -- out of Europe. do not know what you want | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
repatriated to the UK and you do not know if you will be campaigning | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
for a Yes or no vote in the referendum? I am very clear that | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
when I see the renegotiated terms David Cameron is able to secure, I | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
would be clear whether or not I feel they have read balanced the | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
decision-making process in the interests of Britain, | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
satisfactorily, and in a way that meets the concerns daiquiri | :11:27. | :11:33. | |
expressed whenever I go about. -- that I year expressed. It is about | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
making sure we can compete in the European economy and not about | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
Europe telling us how we should League highlights. Just to be clear | :11:42. | :11:48. | |
from you, even if Scotland votes for independence, we do not get the | :11:48. | :11:55. | |
chance to vote for whether or not we are in or out of Europe? Yes | :11:55. | :12:05. | |
:12:05. | :12:07. | ||
tries magna macro? Yes. We will be engaging partners within Europe. | :12:07. | :12:14. | |
But why shouldn't we have the chance? If people vote for | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
independence, you have a number of different political parties putting | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
forward their perspectives for the first independent Scottish | :12:21. | :12:30. | |
parliament. It may be up to the Conservatives to put forward the | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
repatriation of powers. Do you think the UK could leave? Of course | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
there is a danger. Your plan then would be for Scotland to be a | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
member of the European Union, not a member of the euro and part of a | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
currency sans with a country which is leading the European Union? -- | :12:49. | :12:56. | |
zone. Of course of the rest of the UK decides to opt out of Europe, we | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
would have to look at how that would risk -- affect Scotland's | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
relationship with Europe. He would have to look at it. There would | :13:05. | :13:15. | |
:13:15. | :13:19. | ||
What do you think of that, the idea that an independent Scotland could | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
be part of a currency zone with sterling while the UK was not part | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
of the European Union? I don't think it's likely. I feel the | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
position curious that the SNP, who believe it's right for the people | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
of Scotland to be able to have a vote on whether or not we are part | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
of the United Kingdom. Let's remember the SNP came in in the | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
year 2007 to office. This referendum is seven years of | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
unSeine certainty after they came to office. Albeit they said it | :13:45. | :13:50. | |
would be in a few years time. The SNP, I heard Alex Salmond said the | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
referendum is next year. It wasn't Alex Salmond who delivered the | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
referendum, just as on Scotland and the European Union, it has taken a | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
Conservative Prime Minister to give the people of the United Kingdom a | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
say on all of these issues. Thank you all very much indeed. | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
Now, there appears to have been a significant drop in support for | :14:11. | :14:12. | |
independence. Despite the independence debate | :14:12. | :14:14. | |
moving to the top of the political agenda. | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
Yes, campaigners have apparently struggled to persuade voters of the | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
merits of their case. The annual Scottish Social | :14:20. | :14:22. | |
Attitudes Survey also contains a warning for unionists. | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
Researchers say there's a big gap between the powers people want | :14:25. | :14:35. | |
:14:35. | :14:36. | ||
Holyrood to have and the powers they think it has now. July 2012 | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
and the Olympic torch is touring the UK. It is when the organisers | :14:41. | :14:48. | |
of the annual Scottish Social Attitudes survey began Thai work. | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
They found that the "yes" side appears to be falling back. Voters | :14:53. | :15:03. | |
:15:03. | :15:04. | ||
were presented with the following 23% agreed, down from 32% in 2011. | :15:04. | :15:10. | |
Equal to the lowest recorded since 1999. Interestingly, during the | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
years the SNP was in opposition, 30% on average supported | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
independence. During the years they have held power, that figure has | :15:20. | :15:26. | |
averaged out at 26%. The argument that independence would thread a | :15:26. | :15:31. | |
more just society seems not to be convincing voters. Whereas 19% | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
thought the gap between rich and poor would reduce under | :15:35. | :15:42. | |
independence, 25% expect it to increase and 47% think it will make | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
no difference. There is comfort for the Nationalists. Look at the gap | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
between the proportion of Scots who would like the Scottish government | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
have more influence over how Scotland is run and those who | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
believe it actually does. Asked about setting tax levels, 56% said | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
most decisions should be made by the Scottish Parliament, when it | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
comes to who should make most decisions on welfare, 64% said most | :16:08. | :16:14. | |
of them should also lie with the Scottish Parliament. Given that, | :16:14. | :16:21. | |
it's not surprising support for some form of defo max is still | :16:21. | :16:26. | |
strong. There is one problem, you won't have the option of voting for | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
I'm joined now from Edinburgh by the Director of the Scottish Social | :16:31. | :16:39. | |
Attitudes Survey, Rachel Ormston. What should we make of the drop for | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
independence? You have 23% and that is the same question that you have | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
been asking for years, isn't it? That has gone down significantly. | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
When you ask people - do they think the Scottish Parliament should run | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
everything, 35 of them say, yes? Yes. If you ask the questions a | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
different way you will get slightly different answers. What we would | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
note about that is that actually there has been a similar size of | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
drop on that question from 2011 to 2012 as well. On that measure too | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
it looks like support for independence is certainly down over | :17:12. | :17:17. | |
the last 12 months. Right. Taking into all the usual poll things | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
about, you know, don't take one overly seriously, you are saying | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
there is a trend here. The trend seems to be been backed up by | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
recent opinion polls? Indeed. There has been a down ward trend across | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
opinion polls in 2012. So far the poll that is have happened this | :17:33. | :17:39. | |
year don't seem to contradict that. Do you have any insights into why | :17:39. | :17:45. | |
the fall in shorp for independence seems to be happening -- support | :17:45. | :17:47. | |
for independence seems to be happening that the SNP in favour of | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
independence is in office. The opposite seemed to happen when | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
their opponents were in office? of the interesting factors | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
underlying this is that actually people seem rather less | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
dissatisfied that the deal Scotland is get frgt union in the year since | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
2007 than the years prior to. That people are more likely now to feel | :18:10. | :18:16. | |
Scotland gets its fair share or more than its fair share of UK | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
government spending. They are less likely to think England's economy | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
benefits more from the union than they were in the pre-2007 years. It | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
looks like slightly pe versely for the SNP one of the impacts of | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
having a government in Scotland that is different in terms of the | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
party from the government in Westminster and regularly standing | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
up for Scotland's interests is that it seems to have made people rather | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
less dissatisfied with Scotland's position within the union. I don't | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
think there have been big changes in terms of who supports | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
independence, have there? Let's run through it. In terms of age, | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
younger people are more likely to? Yes. They are more likely to. In | :18:58. | :19:04. | |
2012 again, it's own a minority of 18-24-year-olds, around 30% of 18- | :19:04. | :19:10. | |
24-year-olds. That is quite a lot higher. Women less likely? Yes. | :19:10. | :19:15. | |
Women are consistently between five or seven points less likely to | :19:15. | :19:21. | |
support independence than men. about class differences? Those in | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
professional occupations who are least positive about independence. | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
Those in routine occupations intend to be somewhat more positive. | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
does that mean? Does that mean as you move down these horrible number | :19:35. | :19:43. | |
scales that support rises, is that right? Well, I suppose support is | :19:43. | :19:48. | |
higher in what might have been classed as traditionally working- | :19:48. | :19:54. | |
class occupations than what might have been traditionally classed as | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
middle-class occupations. The other extraordinary result you have is | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
that what most people want is the option they are not going to get? | :20:00. | :20:06. | |
Yes. It's not actually true that most people necessarily - that | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
devolution max is necessarily the single most popular option, what | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
you find is because those who support independence would also | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
support more devolution, if that was the only option on the table, | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
it seems to be the only option that is capable of gaining a a majority | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
support at this point in time. Thank you very much for joining us. | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
We will discuss the referendum again on Monday in a Newsnight | :20:32. | :20:40. | |
Scotland Special debate programme. An audience representing Scotland's | :20:40. | :20:42. | |
ethnic minority communities will question leading politicians on | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
some of the issues raised by the referendum and the prospect of | :20:45. | :20:47. | |
Scottish independence. That's from 10.30pm on Monday. Now, | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
That's from 10.30pm on Monday. Now, tomorrow's papers: Scottish backing | :20:51. | :20:59. | |
for UK split down says -- split down, what we have been talking | :20:59. | :21:05. | |
about. That is the survey we were talking about. The Ind pend | :21:05. | :21:12. |