25/06/2013 Newsnight Scotland


25/06/2013

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 25/06/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

You can hear the whole documentary by visiting the BBC Asian Network

:00:01.:00:11.
:00:11.:00:13.

Tonight on Newsnight Scotland: We've been inside Glasgow's schools to see

:00:13.:00:16.

how they're trying to improve results for some of Scotland's

:00:16.:00:18.

poorest children. Can they match the extraordinary results seen in

:00:18.:00:22.

London? Good evening. Last month we looked

:00:22.:00:25.

at how the London challenge improved the standards of the capital's

:00:25.:00:31.

schools. At the turn of the century, they had a terrible reputation for

:00:31.:00:33.

poor attainment. But in 2003 the then Labour Government pumped extra

:00:33.:00:37.

cash and resources in to help turn them around. A number of the schools

:00:37.:00:40.

were in disadvantaged areas. In less than a decade these schools have

:00:40.:00:43.

gone from the worst in the country to among the best. Given Glasgow's

:00:43.:00:46.

challenges with similar problems, could we learn anything here from

:00:46.:00:49.

the London challenge experience? Ian Hamilton visited two Glasgow schools

:00:49.:00:53.

- a primary and a secondary in opposite ends of the city - to hear

:00:53.:00:56.

how they are trying to turn the fortunes around for the city's

:00:56.:01:02.

children. Last month I reported from London,

:01:02.:01:05.

where I discovered they had gone from having some of the worst

:01:05.:01:10.

schools in England to some of the best, in less than one decade. But

:01:10.:01:15.

that was London, and this is Glasgow. What is the council doing

:01:15.:01:25.
:01:25.:01:43.

to improve the standards of schools The pupils at Castlemilk High School

:01:43.:01:50.

are squeezing in one final rehearsal for the autumn show. This secondary

:01:50.:01:56.

school is one of the smallest in the city, with only 430 pupils, but this

:01:56.:02:01.

does not hold it back, nor does it being located in one of the poorest

:02:01.:02:10.

parts of Glasgow. What is remarkable about this school is that 99% of its

:02:10.:02:16.

leavers last year either find a job, an apprenticeship or a place at

:02:16.:02:19.

university or college, making Castlemilk High School not only the

:02:19.:02:24.

best in Glasgow but one of the best in Scotland for school leavers. So

:02:24.:02:29.

how did they achieve this? According to the headteacher, it is all about

:02:29.:02:34.

relationships. It is a long time since the only thing that mattered

:02:34.:02:39.

was your curricular expertise. It does count, but what is really

:02:39.:02:42.

important to effective teaching is that we can build relationships with

:02:42.:02:51.

children. For many years, the number of schools in Glasgow have not had

:02:51.:02:56.

the best reputation. For some areas that was due to a background of

:02:56.:03:00.

economic deprivation. According to the Director of education,

:03:00.:03:05.

Glasgow's situation is so unique, it is unreasonable to compare it with

:03:05.:03:11.

any other local authority. If you take statistics that link to areas

:03:11.:03:19.

of multiple deprivation, Glasgow has 26,700 children living in the 10%

:03:19.:03:25.

most deprived postcodes. One of my neighbouring authorities has 363. We

:03:25.:03:32.

play a different game in the city. They believe that Glasgow City

:03:32.:03:38.

Council have two focus and nourishment and nurturing, because

:03:38.:03:42.

if they do not, some of these boys in the East End of the city would

:03:42.:03:52.
:03:52.:03:55.

not see their 55th birthday. That is why here in macro -- tempter -- St

:03:55.:03:59.

Anne's Primary School, they are starting them young, teaching them

:03:59.:04:05.

about healthy eating. Children need to recognise that they are valued,

:04:05.:04:09.

laughed, and have lots to offer. We need to make sure they have the

:04:09.:04:15.

skills to be able to do that, and that can be hired because of the

:04:16.:04:21.

challenges the children come from. What did the pupils think?

:04:21.:04:26.

favourite thing here would probably be inside in the classroom. Do you

:04:26.:04:32.

feel quite confident at this school? Yes, because I know if there is

:04:33.:04:39.

anything wrong -- if I do anything wrong, nobody will say anything

:04:39.:04:43.

because you are trying your best. like the teachers, I like the

:04:43.:04:48.

lessons, and we do not just learn with our heads down and working, we

:04:48.:04:56.

get to play fun games to help us learn about it more. We have

:04:56.:05:01.

children coming to school who have not eaten the night before, or they

:05:01.:05:05.

did not eat properly, so how can they sit down in classes and learn?

:05:05.:05:09.

We need to think about the whole child, and all our interactions with

:05:09.:05:16.

children. Glasgow is starting to see more than a glimmer of hope. In the

:05:16.:05:23.

past five years, they have seen a 9% increase in gaining one or more

:05:23.:05:28.

Highers in fifth year, and by the end of fourth year they are seeing a

:05:28.:05:33.

7.5% increase in pupils gaining five or more level threes. Attendance at

:05:33.:05:39.

secondary schools is more than 90%, the highest it has ever been. We are

:05:39.:05:43.

still a long way behind other local authorities, but given the

:05:43.:05:46.

challenges in the city, this academic believe that Glasgow should

:05:46.:05:51.

be praised for the work they have done. I think Glasgow is making huge

:05:51.:05:57.

strides to deliver the sort of change that the London challenge

:05:57.:06:02.

delivered, but without the same funding. I think that is brave and

:06:02.:06:05.

difficult task, and a task quite frankly that they deserve to praised

:06:05.:06:13.

for. If you had the resources that the London challenge and the city

:06:13.:06:18.

challenge have got, could you tackle a lot of the problems in Glasgow?

:06:18.:06:23.

think that I could use the money carefully and wisely. I don't think

:06:23.:06:30.

that I need a massive amount of money. Currently, 2013, 2014, and

:06:30.:06:34.

the forecast for beyond financially, is going to make it very difficult

:06:34.:06:39.

to continue to improve. That is without a shadow of a doubt. Two

:06:39.:06:47.

thirds of the budget is taken up in salaries. So some difficult

:06:47.:06:51.

decisions ahead for Glasgow City Council. St Anne's Primary School

:06:51.:06:56.

choir has travelled the UK with the message of hope and self belief.

:06:56.:07:00.

From one of the poorest parts of the country. The big question for

:07:00.:07:04.

Glasgow City Council and the Scottish Government, can they invest

:07:04.:07:07.

in these children to give them the same opportunities as those from

:07:08.:07:11.

wealthier backgrounds? I'm joined in the studio by Stephen

:07:11.:07:14.

Curran, who is Executive Member for Education on Glasgow Council and by

:07:14.:07:17.

Dr Sue Ellis from Strathclyde University, who you saw in that

:07:17.:07:24.

film. In Edinburgh is Alex Massie of The Spectator.

:07:24.:07:31.

I think everyone will be impressed by the effort, but this statistic

:07:31.:07:37.

about Castlemilk, but 99% of the students who leave go on to a job or

:07:37.:07:44.

apprenticeship. That would not mean that in a conventional league table

:07:44.:07:51.

but is necessarily a particularly good school, would it? Positive

:07:51.:07:54.

destinations mean something positive... But where would that

:07:54.:08:00.

rate compared to other institutions in Glasgow? If you look at the

:08:00.:08:03.

number of Highers, it is different, but the young people there are

:08:03.:08:08.

moving on to a far better place, and we would expect better for them over

:08:08.:08:15.

time. But is that one of your poorest schools better schools? In a

:08:15.:08:21.

strictly academic sense. It is an area that is very deprived, so it

:08:21.:08:30.

has done exceptionally well. But it is still one of your poorer ones.

:08:30.:08:36.

The other thing is, when Diane King, the headteacher, talks about

:08:36.:08:40.

the most important thing being building relationships, I am not

:08:40.:08:45.

sure what she meant. She means understanding the young people and

:08:45.:08:49.

getting the best opportunities for them. Some could be in circumstances

:08:49.:08:52.

where it is difficult to do homework, so they will have homework

:08:52.:08:59.

classes in the school. Some might be coming from difficult

:08:59.:09:02.

circumstances. So it is understanding the challenges they

:09:02.:09:07.

have at school and making sure they get the best out of school in a safe

:09:07.:09:12.

environment. Sue Ellis, I think everyone here will agree that what

:09:12.:09:20.

Glasgow is trying to do is laudable, but the fact is we are not seeing

:09:20.:09:27.

the dramatic turnaround that we saw in London, I'll be? Two I think what

:09:27.:09:37.
:09:37.:09:40.

happened in London took ten years. Going back to that issue about

:09:40.:09:44.

relationships, what we know about children and learning, is that

:09:45.:09:48.

unless they feel secure and comfortable and confident in what

:09:48.:09:52.

they are doing, they will not try and attempt difficult tasks, and

:09:52.:09:57.

they will not be learning anything. So that willingness to have a go if

:09:57.:10:01.

you like is really absolutely crucial, and if you do not get that

:10:01.:10:04.

right, if the children are sitting there and they feel that any attempt

:10:04.:10:12.

they make will be belittled then... But you said in the film there that

:10:12.:10:16.

Glasgow does not have the money. There was not very much money, it

:10:16.:10:23.

was about �50,000 per school, but Chris Cook of the financial Times

:10:23.:10:32.

work out that a child entering from the poorest area of London into a

:10:32.:10:37.

state school now, can expect to come out with the average result for the

:10:37.:10:44.

whole of England. That is extraordinary, no matter how

:10:45.:10:53.

laudable Stephen Curran has done, it is a million miles away. The London

:10:53.:10:58.

Challenge was about networking skills. That was the key to it.

:10:58.:11:02.

Schools that were struggling but connected with schools that have

:11:02.:11:08.

similar areas... I just want to bring Alex Massie in. I want to come

:11:08.:11:13.

to this first point about the 99% figure. Alex, I suspect you want to

:11:13.:11:19.

praise what Glasgow have done. I just wonder what the key to some of

:11:19.:11:23.

this London stuff is. This idea of children coming from deprived areas,

:11:23.:11:26.

and you have got to make allowances and build relationships and all the

:11:26.:11:30.

rest of it, one of the things that seems pretty key to these schemes is

:11:30.:11:35.

that they do not do that. They have expectations of students from the

:11:35.:11:38.

most deprived areas which are the same as the expectations of students

:11:38.:11:45.

from middle-class areas. Exactly. That is the key point. It is the

:11:45.:11:50.

case not just in London, but in Detroit, in the south side of

:11:50.:11:54.

Chicago, in other disadvantaged areas. The very worst thing that you

:11:54.:11:57.

can do for children from disadvantaged backgrounds, and we

:11:57.:12:03.

know the challenges that these children space, is make excuses for

:12:03.:12:09.

them -- children face. It is that sort of thing that rates them off

:12:09.:12:14.

before they have even made it to school. It is that sort of thing

:12:14.:12:17.

that is so dispiriting. It is the sort of thing that should actually

:12:17.:12:22.

be a matter of anger, it should induce anger, and one of the scary

:12:23.:12:27.

things about education politics is how little anger it produces. If as

:12:27.:12:37.
:12:37.:12:41.

many people failed in treatment of the elderly or in the NHS, it would

:12:41.:12:44.

be considered a scandal. Far too many children have their lives John

:12:44.:12:46.

this add to the NHS, it would be considered a scandal. Far too many

:12:47.:12:49.

children have their lives jaundice at two earlier stage. What Glasgow

:12:49.:12:51.

it must begin before children get to school. You are absolutely right. It

:12:51.:12:56.

is a culture of low expectations. Stephen Curran, the thing that

:12:56.:13:02.

strikes me, we talked about networking. The London Challenge was

:13:02.:13:06.

not just a nice idea. It was a very specific thing that you do not seem

:13:06.:13:13.

to have. For example, pitting people who were in a unit at the Department

:13:13.:13:17.

Of Education into schools that were failing to help turn them around,

:13:17.:13:21.

with the agreement of schools, getting partnership boards, having

:13:21.:13:25.

this idea of mentoring and having teachers spending time away from the

:13:25.:13:29.

schools. This idea that your job was not teaching in your local school,

:13:29.:13:33.

but teaching for the whole of London. But, you do not seem to have

:13:33.:13:39.

any of that. We are doing some of that work. Because of the Curriculum

:13:40.:13:49.

For Excellence, we have a teacher who is a national leader, in

:13:49.:13:55.

languages, who is going great across the country. Some of this is

:13:55.:13:59.

happening already. Alex Massie is right. We are angry about this and

:13:59.:14:02.

we are passionate about lifting expectations at all of the schools.

:14:02.:14:07.

The support network is really important. I come back to this point

:14:07.:14:11.

that there were very specific things done in London, and it is very easy

:14:11.:14:15.

to talk as if you are doing the same thing. You can even convince

:14:15.:14:23.

yourself you are, but in fact, you are not. I think that London,

:14:23.:14:28.

because the education system is different in London, the schools had

:14:28.:14:31.

access to different sorts of data, and that is an important thing to

:14:31.:14:35.

think about. Schools had better quality data about literacy and

:14:35.:14:39.

numeracy than the schools in Scotland have. They also, because of

:14:39.:14:43.

the way education is organised, had access to how schools in

:14:43.:14:47.

neighbouring authorities with similar pupils were doing, whereas

:14:47.:14:51.

in Scotland, a local authority knows how their own schools are doing, but

:14:51.:14:55.

they do not necessarily know how other schools are doing. You are

:14:55.:14:59.

getting too part of the problem here. It is surely a national

:14:59.:15:03.

disgrace that we do not have that information to hand. We are trying

:15:03.:15:07.

to reform... It is a bit like the NHS. You are trying to reform will

:15:07.:15:13.

you do not know how something is performing. You would not want to

:15:13.:15:22.

import all of the English elements. This identifying... Identifying

:15:22.:15:26.

that, moving in, and the whole idea of mentoring and moving teachers in

:15:26.:15:32.

to help you, that is what Glasgow needs to do. I think the thing about

:15:32.:15:35.

the London Challenge that was very distinctive was that when people

:15:35.:15:43.

moved into those schools, the same teacher was still in charge.

:15:43.:15:48.

schools headteacher was still making the decisions. It is an important

:15:48.:15:54.

point as well, you have got to remember, the New Labour Government

:15:54.:15:58.

had gone through before that started. A lot of the worst

:15:58.:16:04.

teachers... They had abolished the LGA and replace it with a private

:16:04.:16:10.

company. There is a real support and challenge around teachers. If they

:16:10.:16:18.

are not performing, gave it -- they get the chance to get professional

:16:18.:16:21.

support. Sometimes they leave the position because young people 's

:16:21.:16:26.

futures are at stake. Alex Massie, what would you like to see Stephen

:16:26.:16:32.

Curran doing? In the sense of structure and governance, there are

:16:32.:16:35.

many different ways to run a successful school system.

:16:35.:16:39.

Personally, I think there is a lot to be said for setting schools free

:16:39.:16:43.

from local authority control. was not part of the London

:16:43.:16:53.

experience. It is sort of...It was before academies. The academies were

:16:53.:17:03.
:17:03.:17:03.

part of the success... I am sorry, I must correct you. What would you say

:17:03.:17:09.

to Stephen Curran? We need to demand more from all sectors. We also need

:17:09.:17:13.

to demand more from teachers. There are a lot of very good teachers who

:17:13.:17:18.

do a lot of very good work. Teachers want to be treated as a high status,

:17:18.:17:20.

well-paid profession and that is the right thing to do. That means that

:17:20.:17:27.

we must demand more from them. think we will leave this with the

:17:27.:17:34.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS