Browse content similar to 07/01/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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diminished the trust to that level. It is people's own decisions whether | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
or not to trust me again. Tonight on Newsnight Scotland: Two | :00:00. | :00:15. | |
of the country's top judges reject the Government's plans to abolish | :00:16. | :00:19. | |
corroboration. We'll ask the Justice Secretary if | :00:20. | :00:22. | |
anyone in the legal establishment thinks it's a good idea. | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
And we're in Cowdenbeath to look at the by-election race. | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
Good evening. Since the Government announced its | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
plans to abolish the general principle of corroboration in Scots | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
law, it has faced a barrage of criticism from the legal | :00:39. | :00:40. | |
establishment. Today, two of Scotland's most senior judges have | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
joined that chorus. The desire to increase convictions in rape and | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
domestic abuse cases has not persuaded Lord Hamilton or Lord | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
Cullen that the law should change, as our political correspondent Glenn | :00:50. | :00:50. | |
Campbell reports. Corroboration has been at the centre | :00:51. | :01:14. | |
of Scottish justice for centuries. Abolishing the routine requirement | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
for it will make it polished -- possible for criminal cases to go | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
ahead without two independent sources of evidence. All but one of | :01:23. | :01:30. | |
Scotland's's High Court judges and against the change. The exception is | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
Lord Carloway, who came up with the idea. His boss, Scotland's most | :01:37. | :01:43. | |
senior judge, one that without it there could be more miscarriages of | :01:44. | :01:48. | |
justice. A view echoed by the men he succeeded as Lord President and Lord | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
Justice general. Lord Hamilton has never given at television interview | :01:53. | :01:59. | |
on any other issue. Corroboration is a matter of real importance in this | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
day and age. I think it is a mark of a sound criminal justice system that | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
the system should be more concerned about convicting and punishing | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
innocent people than it should be about allowing guilty people to go | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
three. If I could give you a quote from an English commentator, a | :02:20. | :02:27. | |
famous quote, the man said, it is better that ten guilty persons | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
escape than one innocent suffers. Lord Cullen raises similar concerns. | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
It is possible more cases will be prosecuted than before. I understand | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
that. It is possible more convictions might take place. My | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
concern, my knees, is that in the process of doing that, one might | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
have created a situation where wrongful convictions occur. There is | :02:53. | :02:59. | |
a serious risk of that. We should retain corroboration as an essential | :03:00. | :03:02. | |
part of criminal jurisdiction in Scotland. The only other surviving | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
former head of the judiciary has also questioned the wisdom of | :03:07. | :03:12. | |
abolishing corroboration. These are powerful voices against removing the | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
ancient requirement for corroboration. But victims' troops, | :03:16. | :03:22. | |
police and prosecutors say the rule is preventing domestic abuse and | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
sexual offence cases from being heard in our courts. And the last | :03:27. | :03:34. | |
two years, 170 cases of rape have had to have had no proceedings taken | :03:35. | :03:37. | |
in them because of insufficient evidence. In many incidents, that is | :03:38. | :03:46. | |
lack of corroboration. Police often find that they can't get | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
corroboration for crimes committed in private. Lord Cullen things that | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
could be addressed by more limited reform. If a body such as the Law | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
commission looked at this matter, they might want to consider whether | :03:57. | :04:02. | |
certain categories or types of cases should have modification or | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
relaxation. Perhaps, I don't know, taking the form of the judge having | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
the power to relax the need of corroboration if you satisfied that | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
no corroborative evidence could ever be expected to be given in the | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
circumstances of that case. That is not on the Government's agenda. It | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
is determined to abolish the general requirement for corroboration with | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
new safeguards against wrongful conviction. Including increasing the | :04:31. | :04:36. | |
jury majority required to secure a conviction. Lord Hamilton things | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
that provision does not go far enough, given that Julie is in | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
Scottish criminal cases have 15 members. I think it is proposed in | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
the bill that the majority should be increased from one date for guilty | :04:51. | :05:00. | |
to ten. I would increase that to 12. I think you require a substantial | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
majority if you have got to abolish corroboration. The justice secretary | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
says he is open to ideas. We're open to ensuring the scales of justice | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
are properly balanced. That includes building in additional safeguards. | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
We are happy to take on board issues from the legal profession. But | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
access to justice has been denied and thousands of victims are being | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
denied the opportunity, not necessarily for a conviction to a | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
car, because that is for the court, but at least to have their case | :05:34. | :05:41. | |
heard. The evidence for and against corroboration will be weighed up by | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
Holyrood politicians. In the end, it is the rather than High Court judges | :05:47. | :05:47. | |
who will decide the law of the land. A little earlier, I spoke to the | :05:48. | :06:07. | |
Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill. I asked him what he thought of Lord | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
Cullen's suggestion that instead of getting rid of corroboration in all | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
cases, it should be up to the judge to decide whether it is needed or | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
not. That has been suggested, but the Lord President thought that | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
would not work. I see clear difficulties in having | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
two systems of evidence. When forensic scientists and placed on a | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
crime scene, which ruled that the apply? Sometimes it will not be | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
clear what crime has been committed. It was for that reason the current | :06:40. | :06:42. | |
Lord President made it clear he did not think that separating sex and | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
rape crimes out would be appropriate. Explain what the | :06:47. | :06:53. | |
problem is. Police turn up and what exactly is a problem? There is a | :06:54. | :07:00. | |
variety of issues. That is why the Lord President made it clear. It | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
would have to be lamented in court. It could be multiple charges were | :07:04. | :07:10. | |
people face different criteria for different offences. You could have a | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
situation where someone could be charged with a sexual offence but | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
the person could dip and it could become a murder charge. Which rules | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
are to be used if a police officer or forensic scientist comes up | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
because they're at a crime scene? What crime has been committed? | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
Sometimes it is not clear if it is murder and sexual assault or murder | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
alone. Which rules which you apply at that instance? I have had clear | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
advice, not just the evidence from the Lord President, but evidence | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
from police and forensic science, that because considerable | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
difficulties. That is echoed by the faculty of advocates. Lord Hamilton | :07:48. | :07:55. | |
is making the suggestion that instead of raising the majority of a | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
jury to ten, in order to compensate, if you like, for lack of | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
corroboration, it should be 12. What do you make of that? We're happy to | :08:06. | :08:12. | |
consider that. We made it clear that we would that jury majority to ten, | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
or to two thirds, we felt that was an appropriate safeguard. That was | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
considered by the High Court and we accepted that. We made it quite | :08:23. | :08:25. | |
clear that we were happy to consider any additional safeguard that Arafat | :08:26. | :08:32. | |
is necessary. We feel that the scales of justice are balanced not | :08:33. | :08:35. | |
simply for the accused but for the victims of the wider community. I | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
would like to go to some of the suggestions. Lord Hamilton's other | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
proposal is that there should be a revision of the circumstances of | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
which judges can give advice to the jury. That is a matter we would be | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
happy to discuss with the Lord President, so far, that was not | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
suggested by the senators, but we made it clear that we are open to | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
considering any additional safeguard that is necessary once the routine | :09:05. | :09:06. | |
requirement for corroboration has gone. I'm currently engaging in | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
discussions with academics, I have met with the Law Society, with the | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
faculty of advocates, so we are open to further suggestions because we | :09:18. | :09:19. | |
recognise that once we make the changes in the rules of | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
corroboration it has to be balanced and offset with additional | :09:24. | :09:26. | |
safeguards. All of these matters, we are happy to consider. You do not | :09:27. | :09:33. | |
seem disposed to the ideas of Lord Cullen, but in the ideas of Lord | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
Hamilton, while the second one, you say you look at it. What about the | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
jury majority, why can you not say now that this is a good idea to | :09:44. | :09:50. | |
protect possibly innocent people? Because we carried out a | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
consultation. But you can say in your view that is necessary. We had | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
submissions from the current colleges of justice, they were part | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
of the proposals that we have, but we made it clear we are open to | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
suggestions for additional safeguards and I'm happy to consider | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
them. There is an issue when all of the High Court judges, bar the one | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
that came up with the proposal, or against this, it doesn't look like a | :10:19. | :10:25. | |
brilliant proposal. With every law, it is made by Parliament, that is | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
the situation with tomography. It is made by the parliament elected by | :10:30. | :10:38. | |
the people of Scotland. It is implemented by the judiciary. The | :10:39. | :10:40. | |
decisions are made by the Parliament, not by the judiciary, | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
and that is the situation in every jurisdiction. But you're telling us | :10:46. | :10:52. | |
that with one exception, they're all wrong. No, it was the Lord President | :10:53. | :11:02. | |
that appointed the Lord Justice. There was the decision forced upon | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
us by the Supreme Court in London. Lord Carloway took a year out to go | :11:06. | :11:12. | |
and investigate this. You do not think it is a problem that all of | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
the judges are against you bar on? It is not unusual in law to see a | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
dispute between learner to friends. But Lord Carloway is the one that | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
took a year out to go away and look at what other jurisdictions do, and | :11:28. | :11:34. | |
he came back and said, that it was archaic, that it should go, and as I | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
say, I think that is corroborated, no pun intended, by the fact that no | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
other jurisdiction users corroboration. | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
In just over two weeks, voters in Fife will go to the polls to elect a | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
new MSP for Cowndenbeath. The by-election was caused by the | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
death of Labour MSP Helen Eadie last year. Our reporter Steven Godden has | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
been to the former mining area to find out what the voters think. | :11:57. | :12:07. | |
High octane racing at Central park, a big draw for locals preparing to | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
take part in a different sort of race, a by-election in an area that | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
over the years has had a fair few bumps and bruises. Not far away, | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
these grumpy old men gathered at this restaurant in the high Street, | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
one of the few places left where they can put the world to rights. We | :12:28. | :12:38. | |
have had five places we can go and have a good time, now we have only | :12:39. | :12:46. | |
one. There is no money here now. On the barometer of decline in an | :12:47. | :12:57. | |
industrial area. These pits were dotted across the landscape, now, | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
all that means moneymen is to a once thriving industry. Ben Johnson | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
select school, it was not just a question of choosing a career. They | :13:07. | :13:14. | |
just dug a hole, and when it became too difficult, they went" somewhere | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
else, but there was never any real doubt where you are going to go when | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
you left school. Cole was the only thing to emerge from deep | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
underground. Mining communities in Fife elected Willie Gallagher, a | :13:30. | :13:39. | |
commonest MP. The election promise a week ago with the bizarre occasion. | :13:40. | :13:42. | |
The vote was tied 6-6 between Mr Sharpe and the Labour nominee. Mr | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
Shah's name was picked out of the hat. A radical tradition that dates | :13:49. | :13:55. | |
back more than a century. Radical ideas came here, the French | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
anarchist decided to have one of the major anarchist leave here, so | :13:59. | :14:07. | |
fertile was the breathing ground. These were horrible jobs. It brought | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
people together, and beyond looking at the family and each other, it had | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
to be a bigger idea, and it seems in this area of Fife, the bigger ideas | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
have always meant something to people. If you look closely on the | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
street, there are signposts pointing towards that left wing past. This | :14:25. | :14:32. | |
street is attributed to Durie Gagarin, the common -- cosmonaut | :14:33. | :14:44. | |
that went into space. Unemployment, deprivation, they are important | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
issues in the by-election, but by no means the only ones in this diverse | :14:50. | :14:56. | |
constituency. The referendum, people are bound to ask questions about | :14:57. | :14:58. | |
that, and there will be certain local aspect such as the planning | :14:59. | :15:08. | |
arrangements that cover development of wind farms. Back in the cafe, the | :15:09. | :15:15. | |
talking point is the state of the local high street. The older wants | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
less talk and more action. A lot of the problems here can be easily | :15:19. | :15:25. | |
rectified. We go to monthly meetings with discussions, and my opinion | :15:26. | :15:32. | |
is, we're been discussing the same things over and over. And still, | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
nothing is getting done. Before the chequered flag is waved at the end | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
of this month, expect collisions of policy rather than paintwork. | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
I'm joined now from Dundee by the Political Editor of the Daily | :15:47. | :15:48. | |
Record, David Clegg. David, this is presumably, is it is | :15:49. | :15:57. | |
safe Labour seat? It would be extraordinary if they lost this | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
seat, even after the SNP triumphant 2011, Labour on land to this seat, | :16:02. | :16:11. | |
but it would be an earthquake. This is Gordon Brown territory, I believe | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
that Alex Riley, he will be launching his campaign tomorrow, and | :16:16. | :16:17. | |
Gordon Brown will be sitting beside him when he does so, so anything | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
other than a comfortable Labour victory would be a major, major | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
upset. For political anoraks, should they be looking to see if it is how | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
the SNP does the letter to Labour or the Liberal Democrats? It is an | :16:32. | :16:41. | |
SNP, Labour fight. For a while, for a wider idea of what is going on in | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
Scotland, it will be whether Labour increased their majority, which is | :16:48. | :16:49. | |
about 5%, or whether the SNP candidate, Natalie McGarry, an | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
impressive candidate, she is well-known in the area, if she can | :16:56. | :16:58. | |
cut down some of the majority, that would be a good result the SNP. What | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
is your sense of the issues that are there are? These are the issues | :17:05. | :17:13. | |
about the high Street, various issues, in the Dunfermline | :17:14. | :17:16. | |
by-election which was recently, nearby, there was an issue about | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
school closures and the SNP gain some traction on that. I do not know | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
if there is anything quite like that that could cause problems for | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
Labour, because their candidate is the council leader, and was the | :17:30. | :17:32. | |
mention of the independence referendum, it is the dockyard, | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
people working there, we know there has been some uneasiness about how | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
independence would affect that dockyard. I you saying that people | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
that work in the dockyard is live in that area? Exactly. It is right next | :17:47. | :17:54. | |
to the constituency, so if you are working there, the independence | :17:55. | :17:57. | |
referendum is an issue that you might be interested in, because of | :17:58. | :18:00. | |
how it affects the contracts and so on. Thank you very much indeed for | :18:01. | :18:07. | |
joining us. A quick look at the newspapers tomorrow, starting with | :18:08. | :18:09. | |
the Scotsman, it is about free school meals, a ?140 million boost | :18:10. | :18:19. | |
to childcare. The Daily Telegraph, fixed the fridge and save the world. | :18:20. | :18:26. | |
They say, get your appliances fixed rather than buying new ones to save | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
the planet. And the Guardian has pictures of a surfer, and also | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
flagship benefit scheme faces more delays after rift. That is it for | :18:36. | :18:45. | |
us, we're back tomorrow, good night. Hello, further showers tonight, | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
especially in the south and east which could exacerbate the flooding | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
situation. Fewer showers, lighter winds, some sunshine to come, | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
compared to today. The next area of low pressure, the wind is winding up | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
later in the day, so even though there are some showers, some | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
sunshine will bring some showers across Scotland. Not as heavy or | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
frequent as they have been, the wind will not be as strong. Here are long | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
with Northern Ireland and southern Scotland, not too many showers in | :19:19. | :19:21. | |
the afternoon. Some popping up in Wales. More general rain pushing | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
into the south of Wales and across the South West of England, and that | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
could exacerbate the flood situation once again. Numerous flood warnings | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
across the UK, unfortunately. Further east will find fewer | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
showers, some cloudy this in the afternoon, but relatively | :19:42. | :19:42. |