07/01/2014 Newsnight Scotland


07/01/2014

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diminished the trust to that level. It is people's own decisions whether

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or not to trust me again. Tonight on Newsnight Scotland: Two

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of the country's top judges reject the Government's plans to abolish

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corroboration. We'll ask the Justice Secretary if

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anyone in the legal establishment thinks it's a good idea.

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And we're in Cowdenbeath to look at the by-election race.

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Good evening. Since the Government announced its

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plans to abolish the general principle of corroboration in Scots

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law, it has faced a barrage of criticism from the legal

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establishment. Today, two of Scotland's most senior judges have

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joined that chorus. The desire to increase convictions in rape and

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domestic abuse cases has not persuaded Lord Hamilton or Lord

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Cullen that the law should change, as our political correspondent Glenn

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Campbell reports. Corroboration has been at the centre

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of Scottish justice for centuries. Abolishing the routine requirement

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for it will make it polished -- possible for criminal cases to go

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ahead without two independent sources of evidence. All but one of

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Scotland's's High Court judges and against the change. The exception is

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Lord Carloway, who came up with the idea. His boss, Scotland's most

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senior judge, one that without it there could be more miscarriages of

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justice. A view echoed by the men he succeeded as Lord President and Lord

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Justice general. Lord Hamilton has never given at television interview

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on any other issue. Corroboration is a matter of real importance in this

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day and age. I think it is a mark of a sound criminal justice system that

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the system should be more concerned about convicting and punishing

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innocent people than it should be about allowing guilty people to go

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three. If I could give you a quote from an English commentator, a

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famous quote, the man said, it is better that ten guilty persons

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escape than one innocent suffers. Lord Cullen raises similar concerns.

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It is possible more cases will be prosecuted than before. I understand

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that. It is possible more convictions might take place. My

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concern, my knees, is that in the process of doing that, one might

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have created a situation where wrongful convictions occur. There is

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a serious risk of that. We should retain corroboration as an essential

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part of criminal jurisdiction in Scotland. The only other surviving

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former head of the judiciary has also questioned the wisdom of

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abolishing corroboration. These are powerful voices against removing the

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ancient requirement for corroboration. But victims' troops,

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police and prosecutors say the rule is preventing domestic abuse and

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sexual offence cases from being heard in our courts. And the last

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two years, 170 cases of rape have had to have had no proceedings taken

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in them because of insufficient evidence. In many incidents, that is

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lack of corroboration. Police often find that they can't get

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corroboration for crimes committed in private. Lord Cullen things that

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could be addressed by more limited reform. If a body such as the Law

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commission looked at this matter, they might want to consider whether

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certain categories or types of cases should have modification or

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relaxation. Perhaps, I don't know, taking the form of the judge having

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the power to relax the need of corroboration if you satisfied that

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no corroborative evidence could ever be expected to be given in the

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circumstances of that case. That is not on the Government's agenda. It

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is determined to abolish the general requirement for corroboration with

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new safeguards against wrongful conviction. Including increasing the

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jury majority required to secure a conviction. Lord Hamilton things

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that provision does not go far enough, given that Julie is in

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Scottish criminal cases have 15 members. I think it is proposed in

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the bill that the majority should be increased from one date for guilty

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to ten. I would increase that to 12. I think you require a substantial

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majority if you have got to abolish corroboration. The justice secretary

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says he is open to ideas. We're open to ensuring the scales of justice

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are properly balanced. That includes building in additional safeguards.

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We are happy to take on board issues from the legal profession. But

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access to justice has been denied and thousands of victims are being

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denied the opportunity, not necessarily for a conviction to a

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car, because that is for the court, but at least to have their case

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heard. The evidence for and against corroboration will be weighed up by

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Holyrood politicians. In the end, it is the rather than High Court judges

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who will decide the law of the land. A little earlier, I spoke to the

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Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill. I asked him what he thought of Lord

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Cullen's suggestion that instead of getting rid of corroboration in all

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cases, it should be up to the judge to decide whether it is needed or

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not. That has been suggested, but the Lord President thought that

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would not work. I see clear difficulties in having

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two systems of evidence. When forensic scientists and placed on a

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crime scene, which ruled that the apply? Sometimes it will not be

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clear what crime has been committed. It was for that reason the current

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Lord President made it clear he did not think that separating sex and

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rape crimes out would be appropriate. Explain what the

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problem is. Police turn up and what exactly is a problem? There is a

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variety of issues. That is why the Lord President made it clear. It

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would have to be lamented in court. It could be multiple charges were

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people face different criteria for different offences. You could have a

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situation where someone could be charged with a sexual offence but

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the person could dip and it could become a murder charge. Which rules

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are to be used if a police officer or forensic scientist comes up

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because they're at a crime scene? What crime has been committed?

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Sometimes it is not clear if it is murder and sexual assault or murder

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alone. Which rules which you apply at that instance? I have had clear

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advice, not just the evidence from the Lord President, but evidence

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from police and forensic science, that because considerable

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difficulties. That is echoed by the faculty of advocates. Lord Hamilton

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is making the suggestion that instead of raising the majority of a

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jury to ten, in order to compensate, if you like, for lack of

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corroboration, it should be 12. What do you make of that? We're happy to

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consider that. We made it clear that we would that jury majority to ten,

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or to two thirds, we felt that was an appropriate safeguard. That was

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considered by the High Court and we accepted that. We made it quite

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clear that we were happy to consider any additional safeguard that Arafat

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is necessary. We feel that the scales of justice are balanced not

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simply for the accused but for the victims of the wider community. I

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would like to go to some of the suggestions. Lord Hamilton's other

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proposal is that there should be a revision of the circumstances of

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which judges can give advice to the jury. That is a matter we would be

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happy to discuss with the Lord President, so far, that was not

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suggested by the senators, but we made it clear that we are open to

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considering any additional safeguard that is necessary once the routine

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requirement for corroboration has gone. I'm currently engaging in

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discussions with academics, I have met with the Law Society, with the

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faculty of advocates, so we are open to further suggestions because we

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recognise that once we make the changes in the rules of

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corroboration it has to be balanced and offset with additional

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safeguards. All of these matters, we are happy to consider. You do not

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seem disposed to the ideas of Lord Cullen, but in the ideas of Lord

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Hamilton, while the second one, you say you look at it. What about the

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jury majority, why can you not say now that this is a good idea to

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protect possibly innocent people? Because we carried out a

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consultation. But you can say in your view that is necessary. We had

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submissions from the current colleges of justice, they were part

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of the proposals that we have, but we made it clear we are open to

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suggestions for additional safeguards and I'm happy to consider

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them. There is an issue when all of the High Court judges, bar the one

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that came up with the proposal, or against this, it doesn't look like a

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brilliant proposal. With every law, it is made by Parliament, that is

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the situation with tomography. It is made by the parliament elected by

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the people of Scotland. It is implemented by the judiciary. The

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decisions are made by the Parliament, not by the judiciary,

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and that is the situation in every jurisdiction. But you're telling us

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that with one exception, they're all wrong. No, it was the Lord President

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that appointed the Lord Justice. There was the decision forced upon

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us by the Supreme Court in London. Lord Carloway took a year out to go

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and investigate this. You do not think it is a problem that all of

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the judges are against you bar on? It is not unusual in law to see a

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dispute between learner to friends. But Lord Carloway is the one that

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took a year out to go away and look at what other jurisdictions do, and

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he came back and said, that it was archaic, that it should go, and as I

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say, I think that is corroborated, no pun intended, by the fact that no

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other jurisdiction users corroboration.

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In just over two weeks, voters in Fife will go to the polls to elect a

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new MSP for Cowndenbeath. The by-election was caused by the

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death of Labour MSP Helen Eadie last year. Our reporter Steven Godden has

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been to the former mining area to find out what the voters think.

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High octane racing at Central park, a big draw for locals preparing to

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take part in a different sort of race, a by-election in an area that

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over the years has had a fair few bumps and bruises. Not far away,

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these grumpy old men gathered at this restaurant in the high Street,

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one of the few places left where they can put the world to rights. We

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have had five places we can go and have a good time, now we have only

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one. There is no money here now. On the barometer of decline in an

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industrial area. These pits were dotted across the landscape, now,

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all that means moneymen is to a once thriving industry. Ben Johnson

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select school, it was not just a question of choosing a career. They

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just dug a hole, and when it became too difficult, they went" somewhere

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else, but there was never any real doubt where you are going to go when

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you left school. Cole was the only thing to emerge from deep

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underground. Mining communities in Fife elected Willie Gallagher, a

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commonest MP. The election promise a week ago with the bizarre occasion.

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The vote was tied 6-6 between Mr Sharpe and the Labour nominee. Mr

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Shah's name was picked out of the hat. A radical tradition that dates

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back more than a century. Radical ideas came here, the French

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anarchist decided to have one of the major anarchist leave here, so

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fertile was the breathing ground. These were horrible jobs. It brought

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people together, and beyond looking at the family and each other, it had

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to be a bigger idea, and it seems in this area of Fife, the bigger ideas

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have always meant something to people. If you look closely on the

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street, there are signposts pointing towards that left wing past. This

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street is attributed to Durie Gagarin, the common -- cosmonaut

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that went into space. Unemployment, deprivation, they are important

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issues in the by-election, but by no means the only ones in this diverse

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constituency. The referendum, people are bound to ask questions about

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that, and there will be certain local aspect such as the planning

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arrangements that cover development of wind farms. Back in the cafe, the

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talking point is the state of the local high street. The older wants

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less talk and more action. A lot of the problems here can be easily

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rectified. We go to monthly meetings with discussions, and my opinion

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is, we're been discussing the same things over and over. And still,

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nothing is getting done. Before the chequered flag is waved at the end

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of this month, expect collisions of policy rather than paintwork.

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I'm joined now from Dundee by the Political Editor of the Daily

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Record, David Clegg. David, this is presumably, is it is

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safe Labour seat? It would be extraordinary if they lost this

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seat, even after the SNP triumphant 2011, Labour on land to this seat,

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but it would be an earthquake. This is Gordon Brown territory, I believe

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that Alex Riley, he will be launching his campaign tomorrow, and

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Gordon Brown will be sitting beside him when he does so, so anything

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other than a comfortable Labour victory would be a major, major

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upset. For political anoraks, should they be looking to see if it is how

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the SNP does the letter to Labour or the Liberal Democrats? It is an

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SNP, Labour fight. For a while, for a wider idea of what is going on in

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Scotland, it will be whether Labour increased their majority, which is

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about 5%, or whether the SNP candidate, Natalie McGarry, an

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impressive candidate, she is well-known in the area, if she can

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cut down some of the majority, that would be a good result the SNP. What

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is your sense of the issues that are there are? These are the issues

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about the high Street, various issues, in the Dunfermline

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by-election which was recently, nearby, there was an issue about

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school closures and the SNP gain some traction on that. I do not know

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if there is anything quite like that that could cause problems for

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Labour, because their candidate is the council leader, and was the

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mention of the independence referendum, it is the dockyard,

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people working there, we know there has been some uneasiness about how

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independence would affect that dockyard. I you saying that people

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that work in the dockyard is live in that area? Exactly. It is right next

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to the constituency, so if you are working there, the independence

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referendum is an issue that you might be interested in, because of

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how it affects the contracts and so on. Thank you very much indeed for

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joining us. A quick look at the newspapers tomorrow, starting with

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the Scotsman, it is about free school meals, a ?140 million boost

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to childcare. The Daily Telegraph, fixed the fridge and save the world.

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They say, get your appliances fixed rather than buying new ones to save

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the planet. And the Guardian has pictures of a surfer, and also

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flagship benefit scheme faces more delays after rift. That is it for

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us, we're back tomorrow, good night. Hello, further showers tonight,

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especially in the south and east which could exacerbate the flooding

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situation. Fewer showers, lighter winds, some sunshine to come,

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compared to today. The next area of low pressure, the wind is winding up

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later in the day, so even though there are some showers, some

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sunshine will bring some showers across Scotland. Not as heavy or

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frequent as they have been, the wind will not be as strong. Here are long

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with Northern Ireland and southern Scotland, not too many showers in

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the afternoon. Some popping up in Wales. More general rain pushing

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into the south of Wales and across the South West of England, and that

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could exacerbate the flood situation once again. Numerous flood warnings

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across the UK, unfortunately. Further east will find fewer

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showers, some cloudy this in the afternoon, but relatively

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