Browse content similar to 08/08/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, capital in chaos, as Tonight, capital in chaos, as | :00:07. | :00:11. | |
riots, looting, fires and vandalism spread across large parts of London. | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
The trouble started in Hackney this afternoon and spread to South | :00:15. | :00:18. | |
London, cars, houses and businesses have been set ablaze, the | :00:18. | :00:21. | |
have been attacked. The Prime Minister is tonight flying home | :00:21. | :00:26. | |
holiday to deal with the crisis. Tottenham riots have spread. This is | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
Hackney in East London, where riot police have closed down the entire | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
area after looters organising through social networks went on the | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
rampage. As the trouble spreads beyond London, to Birmingham | :00:38. | :00:43. | |
tonight, can the government and police get a grip? It's just like, | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
what's going to happen in England now, because of cuts, are people's | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
homes going to be burned and suddenly be made homeless? | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
think so. Why aren't we protected? Tonight, we'll discuss why this | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
mayhem is happening, why it's spreading and whether there are any | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
lessons to be learned from the inner city riots of the 1980s. Also, can | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
the world avoid a double dip recession? We have the latest on the | :01:06. | :01:14. | |
stuttering economy. Good evening, it's been another | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
night of serious disturbances streets of London, in parts of the | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
capital, the mob simply rules. The damage to property is already well | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
into millions of pounds, ahead of the London Olympics, | :01:26. | :01:31. | |
there's also damage to the capital's reputation and to that. Metropolitan | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
Police, and big questions Cameron about how the government | :01:34. | :01:36. | |
dealing with the rioting. Since trouble started with a peaceful | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
protest in Tottenham on Saturday, has spread to London districts as | :01:40. | :01:46. | |
far apart as Enfield, Walthamstow, Oxford Street, Brixton and | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
Harlesden, but in Hackney there was the worst of today's violence and | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
looting, by the end of the afternoon, there was trouble in | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
Lewisham and Peckham where cars were set ablaze and another fire in | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
Croydon. As the evening progressed, it was confirmed there had been | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
disturbances in Birmingham city centre. The Prime Minister is | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
cutting short his holiday and will chair a crisis meeting tomorrow, | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
while politicians and community leaders have been scratching around | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
for reasons, some speak of social dislocation, but others say this is | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
simply thieving and wrecking. We begin with the latest from Philippa, | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
we can see some pictures live from that fire in Croydon, quite | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
extraordinary blaze, but what has been happening in Hackney where | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
are? Gavin, after an hour of quiet, | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
following several hours of stand-off between riot police and Reuters, in | :02:40. | :02:47. | |
the last five - rioters, we have had five van loads of police, we | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
understand they are making arrests now, pulling people out of a house, | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
so not quiet yet on the streets of Hackney and the police helicopter | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
has just gone up again as well. It's not across London, it's not | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
London-wide, but in pockets of London, there is still trouble | :03:02. | :03:08. | |
tonight, that big fire in Croydon raging in a furniture White House, | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
that's one of the - furniture warehouse, that's one of the most | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
dramatic events of the cast couple of hours. We understand there is | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
still trouble in Tottenham, Peckham, around Clapham Junction, in | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
Lewisham. Police very much here in massive numbers trying to | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
batten down the hatches. You witnessed some of the trouble | :03:29. | :03:35. | |
up close yourself, I think? Yes, I spent about three hours earlier this | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
evening in a couple of streets here from where we are now at | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
Hackney police station, and it was in microcosm what's happening across | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
a lot of London, one long narrow street with rioters at one end and | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
riot police at the other. We saw the tactics with the groups of youths, | :03:52. | :03:57. | |
you could see them pulling T-shirts across their faces, smashing bottles | :03:57. | :04:02. | |
to get ready, and smashing bricks on the pavement to they had manageable | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
ammunition, setting cars and wheelie bins on fire. When we went behind | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
police station lines, you could they were determined to control the | :04:11. | :04:16. | |
situation by having the advantage of numbers, so maybe four dozen rioters | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
but then there would have been riot police officers, dogs and | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
mounted policemen, and for a while they pushed back and back the | :04:25. | :04:30. | |
rioters and I have to say, as the riot police then pulled out of that | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
street, I was talking to Diane Abbott, the local MP, and I could | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
see over her shoulder looters western union as a car was on | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
next to them. It's been surreal. Thanks for that. We'll be having | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
live updates throughout the programme. Newsnight's Liz McKean | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
has spent the day on the streets of London trying to figure out what if | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
anything beyond criminality really lies behind the rioting. Here is | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
here report. Rush hour in our capital city, | :04:59. | :05:05. | |
traffic in Hackney is gridlocked, but not for the usual reasons. Gangs | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
of youths are on the loose, attacking this police car. | :05:10. | :05:18. | |
then chased away, this was one of numerous outbreaks of violence. At | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
the same time, this was the scene in the borough of Peckham, more gangs, | :05:23. | :05:32. | |
more fires, all in broad daylight. It wasn't just property at risk, in | :05:32. | :05:38. | |
Lewisham, people flee their homes, clam bettering over roof - | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
clambering over roofs, taking with them whatever they can hold. Back in | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
Hackney, police set up roadblocks to try to contain the rioters. It might | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
be rush hour, but the whole area has been shut down, all the businesses | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
have closed early, police have sealed every entrance and exit | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
Mare Street. A short time ago, the rioters were pushed down here, | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
can see glass and debris on the road. They have been pushed right | :06:04. | :06:10. | |
back, just over there. They swept through so fast, some people could | :06:10. | :06:17. | |
only look on. Once again, JD Sports was a target for the looters. This | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
chemist was also hit. I met the pharmacist, still appalled at | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
attempt to wreck his livelihood. was across the road when they pulled | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
the shutters, they went in several times. I pleaded with them, I said | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
that's my life, it's all I have in this world, this is my - you know, | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
yes. Did they listen to you? They listened to me, but the most | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
disappointing thing about it, the police were only about six yards | :06:45. | :06:52. | |
away, what is it - Could they what was happening? Yes, so the | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
police were more scared of them than I was. Witnesses described large | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
groups of mixed race youths, this was no spontaneous eruption of | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
fury. This shopkeeper had been warned of trouble ahead, her | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
customers told her, and she had time to shut up shop. It was | :07:09. | :07:15. | |
in Enfield, we would hear it was happening in palmers Green, everyone | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
knows, they are telling each other where it's going to happen. They are | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
communicating between each other and they're just saying, look, this | :07:22. | :07:24. | |
where it's going to be next. Obviously the youths are deciding | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
where they're going to hit next. Were you prepared? Did you | :07:28. | :07:33. | |
was coming? * yes, we had customers coming in and telling us, | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
you better put the shutters down, because they're coming. Social | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
media sites are streaming instant information for good and ill. | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
Communities are warning each other of trouble, but rumours can quickly | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
spread. The messaging service of blackberry phones has been commonly | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
used by those intent on disorder, because it's private, keeping plans | :07:53. | :07:58. | |
off the police radar. Today, the company said it would help with the | :07:58. | :08:04. | |
rapidly expanding investigation. At Tottenham, where the trouble began | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
on Saturday, the high road remained closed, you have to go behind it to | :08:08. | :08:16. | |
see the extent of the damage, the fires are barely out. This film from | :08:16. | :08:22. | |
a mobile phone was recorded by terrified residents, furious at | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
those responsible, but unhappy with the police response. Everyone | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
just doing their own was no one there to stop anything. | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
What do you make of that? I think it's very wrong. What I'm seeing | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
last night, all the police was in Enfield and no one was down here on | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
Saturday night to help anyone here. It's unbelievable. You | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
expect that to happen in this little community, it's horrible. The | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
people who have lost most are those burnt out of their homes, with | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
absolutely nothing, they have here to the council for help. 24 | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
man, who didn't want his face filmed, escaped from his flat | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
his pregnant wife and baby daughter. I feel helpless, I had everything I | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
want in my life, I never been on benefits, now I am being pushed on | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
to them. I am not in the right of mind to go back to work, knowing | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
that my baby hasn't got food to eat, nothing in the house. In what is | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
becoming a persistent criticism of police, this man believes | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
should have done more to save home. Not enough police there | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
there should have been, and another really important point is every 2 | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
weeks, Tottenham have a home and there's hundreds of police, they | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
contain thousands of people, all sorts of people, and that day, there | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
was a Spurs game on at 5.15, there were police in the area | :09:41. | :09:47. | |
lot of police in the area, where were they? Stuart later met | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
Deputy Prime Minister, just back from holiday, the most senior | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
politician to have visited the scene. It's thousands of people | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
coming in for a normal Spurs match, it should have been contained and | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
sorted out. We have about that, the police will do their | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
review of what happened right on the High Street, lessons | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
have to be learned, and then have to be learned, and then there's | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
the independent investigation into the Duggan incident, the death of Mr | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
Duggan, but the frustrating thing is everyone in the community has lots | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
and lots of questions. Some politicians like ex-mayor | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
Livingstone are drawing between the looting and public | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
spending cutbacks. But others, including the Home Secretary, | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
dismiss it as hooliganism. This journalist and youth worker watched | :10:36. | :10:43. | |
the violence unfold. There's lot of cuts, I know our local CAB | :10:43. | :10:48. | |
have lost staff, Connections has closed, that was a place where | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
disaffected young people used to come, and the young offender workers | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
in the area can't be doing the everyday things with them, so there | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
is a group of young people that few people are engaging with, | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
particularly since the cuts. Does that explain it? It doesn't | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
the rioting, it was boisterous, mad behaviour that was all organised on | :11:09. | :11:14. | |
their Blackberrys. For many in Tottenham, the arsonists have | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
hijacked a burning grievance, the shooting by armed police of a young | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
father last Thursday, his family are demanding answers. Police are under | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
pressure to explain the circumstances in which Mark Duggan | :11:26. | :11:32. | |
was shot dead, during what was supposed to be an arrest operation. | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
The Commission is investigating his | :11:35. | :11:41. | |
death, and is waiting for the results of a ballistics test to | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
determine whether he opened fire on police first or not. Tonight, as the | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
police defend their actions, they facial a worsening situation - face | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
a worsening situation. In Croydon, a furniture store was one of several | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
buildings set alight, while in the West Midlands are dealing | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
with disturbances in the centre of Birmingham. Since Saturday, | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
have been more than 200 arrests. This evening, the Prime Minister has | :12:05. | :12:12. | |
abandoned his holiday to return to London. In the course of the day, we | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
asked if a Home Office minister was available to come on the proofing, | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
we were told no one was available and no one from the government can | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
speak to us tonight. I am joined by Ken Livingstone, youth worker and | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
former Conservative candidate for Hammersmith Shaun Bailey, the deputy | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
chairman of the Metropolitan Police Federation John Tully, and | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
Reverend Nims Obunge, who is from Tottenham. Why do you think this | :12:33. | :12:39. | |
happened? I think there is clearly criminality, there is this real | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
problem now with social network which allows people to come to these | :12:43. | :12:48. | |
riots much more rapidly than they did in the early 1980s but I have | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
been in about 18 London boroughs this year, spending a day in each, | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
gone into colleges, young people there are so uncertain about their | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
future. I went to a college Tottenham where half the kids | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
thought they might not be able to afford to condition their course | :13:05. | :13:11. | |
because of the EMA - That sounds like an excuse. We can have a | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
of politicians come on and denounce criminality, we can do it again next | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
summer when it happens or find a way to stop it. I think for the first | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
time certainly in my lifetime, a generation are growing up completely | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
uncertain about their future, whether they can get a home or job, | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
they see politicians that don't engage with them. You have to | :13:29. | :13:36. | |
crackdown on this, I got 7,000 police in London, if we hadn't got | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
those, this would be out of control tonight. A generation to | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
have no hope, can't get on with a job, can't afford to go to | :13:45. | :13:50. | |
university? It's horrible to watch people make some mileage out of | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
this, it's not about 7,000 police, these are young people not scared | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
concerned about the police. If you, please what's happened, this | :13:59. | :14:06. | |
have been communicating and picking up the places to riot, it's a set of | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
kids doing this, most kids are not doing it. To try and link this to | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
the cuts is electioneering. This a deeper issue about why we | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
feel we can engage our children. Are you saying it's not connected | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
the cuts at all? Absolutely not. These kids aren't talking about | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
at all. have been warning the government all | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
year there was the potential for this. We saw this the last time we | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
went through a real downturn in the economy in the early 1980s, it's not | :14:34. | :14:40. | |
an excuse, but we'd be stupid not recognise it's part of the cause. | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
Ken, it is always the business of whoever's in government, red or | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
blue, to look after the future of children and they try to do that, | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
but you have to be careful that you don't excuse their behaviour, you | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
must understand the vast majority young people had nothing to do with | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
this and the vast majority of young people who are involved are just | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
criminals. If you notice, on the BB network, some of my young people | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
showed me this morning, they are picking particular shops. Sports | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
shops, for example. Yes, and that shows you it's organised | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
particular manner. You can't get over the fact that the last time we | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
had rioting consistently like this was in the early 1980s, in the | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
depths of recession, it's come And it's not unique here, it happens | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
in America, it happens in Europe. The government's got to have a | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
programme to make certain you catch the criminals, we've got to stop | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
this nonsense they're going to get rid of 2,000 police in London next | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
year, about you have to give a young generation the hope there's | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
something for there. You're in that community where it started, but it | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
started with a peaceful protest. What do you see as the root causes | :15:45. | :15:51. | |
for this? Forgive me, these are good friends of mine, let's politics | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
out of the door, I need to be clear about this. I was there, I saw | :15:55. | :16:02. | |
beginnings of it. And this is not a response just to what happened on | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
that day. It is important, with the families of Mark Duggan, | :16:07. | :16:14. | |
and I heard their cry for clarity of what went wrong in relation to the | :16:14. | :16:20. | |
situation. The shooting? Yes, the shooting, they wanted answers, they | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
felt they hadn't been engaged effectively. Unfortunately, this | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
expanded, extended itself for long. How did that actually happen? | :16:28. | :16:30. | |
They want legitimate answers to legitimate questions, everybody | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
does. How did that turn into people looting pairs of trainers from | :16:35. | :16:40. | |
shops? We have to be clear about this, it didn't start with looting | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
pairs of trainers. There are no excuses, but we have to understand | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
some reasons here. What we've got to understand, some of these young | :16:47. | :16:52. | |
people feel they have got no in society and they don't feel | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
they're risking anything, but I'll tell you what happened at that time, | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
four or five hours waiting outside the police station, that was what | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
happened, beyond - at the end of which, the family said, we're going, | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
we're not getting our answers, we're going. So some young people had | :17:08. | :17:15. | |
already BB'ed, as we heard shaun say, and had come in. It looks to | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
outsiders as if this is almost recreational rioting, they're having | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
fun. Can I say this, let's get this right. The first thing that was | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
destroyed were two police cars, I saw that happen. They were | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
into the centre and got burnt up. The next thing that | :17:33. | :17:38. | |
there was chaos on our streets. It escalated. Are the police | :17:38. | :17:40. | |
particular target? Are you that relations with the police are | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
still bad? The relations with the police need some fixing, evidently | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
so. Tottenham and Haringey and with our police and young people, | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
have been some directions, we've moved forward, but we're not where | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
we need to be. John, do you that relations with the police are | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
still not good for many of these young people, they feel they | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
little stake in society and burning police cars is a port of call? Most | :18:07. | :18:09. | |
definitely, there has been an enormous move forward from the | :18:09. | :18:14. | |
1980s, the late 1980s, when there was a broken relationship between | :18:15. | :18:21. | |
ourselves as a police service and - It doesn't look like that. It looks | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
terrible, like the police don't a grip. I disagree, I think an | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
enormous amount of effort has put in by the police service to | :18:28. | :18:34. | |
engage with the local communities, each ward within the bus have their | :18:34. | :18:40. | |
own community police teams - between the boroughs. But from Harlesden to | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
Croydon, something going off Birmingham as well, there's pockets | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
of this all over London. They may have been engaged for 25 years or | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
more, but it doesn't seem to be working and people are asking, | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
are the police? The police are there, they're doing their utmost to | :18:55. | :19:01. | |
contain it, there are finite resources, before I was here this | :19:01. | :19:06. | |
evening, I was at the control centre in Lambeth, an enormous amount of | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
effort is being put in by senior commanders and the people out on the | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
streets, the people I represent, the boys and girls doing the day to day | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
job, who have to face what you're seeing on your screens, and they | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
really dedicated to that job. you think morale in the police has | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
taken a big hit? We have seen the resignation of two senior officers | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
recently, we know the World scandal and all these | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
things. We're heading for three commissioners in four years, that | :19:34. | :19:39. | |
doesn't help. You've got the scandals, the threat, last year | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
1,000 jobs were left vacant of the freeze on recruitment, | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
have this proposal to cut 1,900 people, but I have to say, there has | :19:47. | :19:52. | |
been a sea change in policing. years ago, it was like an army of | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
occupation, the black youth talked about rebellion. The world has | :19:56. | :20:02. | |
dramatically moved on. We have one tragic incident, and I have to say, | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
the Trident team have arrested well over 100 armed criminals without | :20:07. | :20:12. | |
firing a shot. Something went wrong. Doesn't that undercut your | :20:12. | :20:17. | |
that there are political reasons for this? It sounds like simply I don't | :20:17. | :20:23. | |
knowerry, doesn't - yoberry, doesn't it? It's not the fault of the | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
police. Policing has had a sea change in this city. Why is it the | :20:27. | :20:33. | |
fault of the government? I was up in Tottenham, which has had a 9% cut | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
nearly in its government grant, the youth centres are closing, people | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
are seeing all the sort of things they used to rely on going. The | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
lads who are lads who are rioting, would they | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
otherwise be in a youth centre? People are going to doubt that. We | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
have been talking about youth services, a 75% cut in youth | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
services, that's real. The danger is if the press or politicians look for | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
one simple answer, we're making a big mistake, we're looking at a | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
catalogue of issues and potential failures, we're looking at something | :21:03. | :21:08. | |
that needs to be looked at more robustly, we're looking at the | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
challenges some of our young people have had and if we suggest this is | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
down to cuts, we're making a big mistake. For me, one of the driving | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
issues is in the last 10-15 years, we have done so much value about | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
their rights but little about their responsibilities. What I would | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
to the young people right now, are attacking the community you come | :21:27. | :21:34. | |
from, and people at home, in my opinion, a large part of it is about | :21:34. | :21:40. | |
yoberry. What about closing youth centres? The comment that most of | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
these kids would be in a youth centre, you've have to look at that, | :21:44. | :21:49. | |
but our youth feel they can take this risk and have nothing to use. | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
Two things, some of them feel genuinely disconnected, but we've | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
encouraged them to take control of the world, we have abdicated power | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
to young people. In that sense, you think they are more violent | :22:01. | :22:06. | |
because they are more rootless and less fixed in a moral sense? Yes, | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
we have been trying to replace people families with welfare, | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
need to go back to the family structure. You mentioned at the | :22:14. | :22:20. | |
start, if we can't get it right this year, we can't get it right next | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
year. That seems like a nod to the Olympics. People around the world | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
will think it's shameful if one of the greatest cities in the world | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
can't manage to keep the peace. There is a layer of issues here. | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
There is the potential, with cuts, for this revolt against that, | :22:37. | :22:42. | |
there is also the problem that we've got a policing morale demoralised, | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
the threat that - the best part of 2,000 police are going to go the | :22:47. | :22:49. | |
minute the Olympics is out of the way, and you have to have a | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
focus on this, the Mayor and Prime Minister have to get a grip | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
and be seen to speak to everybody, not just an elite at the top of | :22:56. | :23:02. | |
society. What do you want from them when they come back? The Mayor is | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
his way back, the will be back tomorrow. We need | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
commitment they're going to support the police and the way they're | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
going to support us is by implementing their 20% cuts, | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
implementing the Windsor review pay and conditions, which will drive | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
morale even further down to what it is at the moment, increasing our | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
pension subscriptions. People understand that this is a deep | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
concern to the police, but there's a situation on the streets | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
which suggests that that's a kind of threat, if you don't pay us what we | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
want, there's going to be more rioting? I don't think it is | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
threat. It's a concern. The people represent are really concerned about | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
their futures, considering whether they should leave the police | :23:41. | :23:43. | |
as a result of those cuts and changes, but what I have to | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
emphasise is the dedication of the people who are on the | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
tonight and have been on the since Thursday is without question. | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
What do you want from the Prime Minister tomorrow? What I want from | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
the Prime Minister is to let everybody know that there is a plan | :23:57. | :24:02. | |
to sort this out. I don't want to jump to one conclusion and | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
at the thing, there is a gambit look at, but what I don't want | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
politicians is for them to use it forward their agenda and for | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
government departments to suggest they don't get a cut, this wouldn't | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
happen. Do you not worry, where these guys? Why wasn't the Prime | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
Minister back earlier to you? This is something the media have | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
most childish about. Do you David Cameron is going to go down | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
there with a shield in Tottenham and Hackney? We have a mechanism, | :24:29. | :24:35. | |
big sophisticated society. Jury but we need leaders, where are | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
they? We have all manner of people to deal with the situation. The | :24:39. | :24:44. | |
point is this - The Prime is coming back from holiday, and the | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
Mayor of London. They are not the people who will put this problem | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
right. This problem is in our communities, in our economy. What | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
are our young people going to do a job, what are our | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
going to do to control the behaviour of young people? If we weren't | :24:58. | :25:04. | |
having a riot, we would be smearing young people's names elsewhere. We | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
have lost control of our young people. Do you see a situation | :25:08. | :25:13. | |
where the army could be involved? think the army is a bit | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
overstretched in Afghanistan at the moment. I find myself agreeing with | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
Shaun. Kids have to have the prospect of a job. At the moment, | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
the majority have no guarantee that's coming. What young men want | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
is to have a job, which means they can support a wife and family, | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
restore those sort of family values Shaun is talking about. At the | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
moment, a lot of young people through the system haven't got | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
confidence. I want to raise with you again the question of the | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
Olympics. People will be very worried about the Olympics, and | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
there's a possibility of a terrorist threat on top of that, and public | :25:46. | :25:51. | |
order and more people coming to our country. This is why politicians | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
have to - Shaun is right, not coming back to run the system, | :25:55. | :26:02. | |
but when I was in Singapore and the bombs went off - Which is when the | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
London bid was won. have to be there, articulating and | :26:06. | :26:11. | |
reassuring, you can't do that on the phone, you have to be on the street. | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
One specific question about the Duggan family, would it help if | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
there was an apology? They there will be an inquiry, we will | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
find out eventually, but it won't be tomorrow or the next day, it will | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
take some time. Let me be clear, we have the IPCC, who have had | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
connections with the family, and that's being worked through. It's | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
important that communities feel reassured that the IPCC will be | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
transparent, it's important that truth gets out into communities, | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
it's important that holistically, as Londoners, we say this should not | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
continue, but the reality is this, until we are sure - and it is | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
important that there is an appropriate response from the | :26:49. | :26:55. | |
police, at the point in time, if the IPCC say there is a concern, then | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
the police need to give an appropriate response, to local | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
communities, because if trust is not there, then this can get worse | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
don't want it to. We'll leave it there, thank you all very much. | :27:06. | :27:12. | |
Well, TV satellite trucks to be pulled away from trouble spots | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
across London tonight because of security, but we are joined by | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
Guardian journalist Paul Lewis has followed these disturbances | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
the start, on the streets of Hackney. What are you seeing? | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
Hackney has really been some of the most shocking scenes I've seen over | :27:27. | :27:34. | |
the last 72 hours. The Pembury estate was the epicentre, and it | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
really taken over by youths burning cars, forming flaming barricades and | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
really taking complete control of the estate, for about 3 | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
would say, they had of the area, and police could do | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
nothing. I saw isolated police being attacked in their cars, | :27:50. | :27:55. | |
the roof of the police car, smashing it with bricks and police officers | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
still inside, others isolated and those journalists who are in here | :28:00. | :28:05. | |
are being attacked, a colleague of mine I saw thrown to the floor and | :28:05. | :28:11. | |
beaten. It is really a shockingly chaotic situation here. Is it | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
actually - it sounds like worse than last night or the night before? | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
think it changed actually, it's very easy to talk about generalised | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
rioting and looting but what happened on Saturday night I felt | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
was more political, even when were ransacking shops, they were | :28:28. | :28:33. | |
still talking about Mark Duggan's death. Last night again it changed, | :28:33. | :28:38. | |
it was property theft predominantly, no attempts at confrontations with | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
police but gangs roaming the streets, going from shop to shop, | :28:43. | :28:48. | |
taking what they can. Tonight it has changed again, there is quite a bad | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
turn, a feeling of self-destruction almost, with people destroying | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
own communities, and actually one of the most disappointing things I've | :28:56. | :29:01. | |
seen just in the last 15 minutes here in kingsland Road, in the | :29:01. | :29:07. | |
centre of Hackney, is clashes between residents. I saw a group of | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
about 100 Turkish/Kurdish men with sticks and bottles chasing another | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
group of youths away, saying that their shops had been looted and they | :29:15. | :29:20. | |
were fighting back. That kind of intercommunal violence is system | :29:20. | :29:26. | |
that I've not seen yet and I've been here for 3 days. A final thought, | :29:26. | :29:31. | |
how orchestrated is all that, and how random? Are they really using | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
messaging and paging to get this organised in some way? They are, | :29:35. | :29:40. | |
absolutely. This kind of mythical sense that somehow Twitter and | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
Facebook are being used, that's not the case. They're using closed | :29:44. | :29:50. | |
networks, BBM messenger. We at The Guardian set up an account to | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
receive these messages, and they are announcing locations and areas, | :29:53. | :29:58. | |
are being circulated among closed networks on Blackberry | :29:58. | :30:04. | |
phones, people are turning up, choosing back streets andallies | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
before arriving at these areas, before appearing at these | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
pre-planned destinations, so to that degree, there is a level of | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
orchestration. News just in, has been looting in Woolwich High | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
Street, several hundred young people said to be involved, but there's | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
nothing new in rioting in Britain, many of today's pictures have | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
reminded people of what happened in our inner cities in the 1980s but | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
are there really any useful parallels? | :30:31. | :30:38. | |
The events are three decades old, but the images are still haunting. | :30:38. | :30:42. | |
1985's riots in the Broadwater Farm area of Tottenham were linked to the | :30:42. | :30:48. | |
death of a black woman during police search, then a policeman was | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
killed during the disturbances. Violent disorder and inner city | :30:51. | :30:59. | |
riots were a feature of parts of Britain in the early 80s, in Toxteth | :30:59. | :31:04. | |
in 1981 and Brixton later the same year. Are today's tensions as | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
serious or as widespread as then? There are some similarities. In the | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
early 1980s, Britain had a contracting economy, high youth | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
unemployment and government cuts, but it was also a period of sharp | :31:17. | :31:19. | |
ideological differences between left and right and different | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
interpretations of the cause of the unrest. I grew up in the 30s with | :31:23. | :31:29. | |
an unemployed father. He didn't riot, he got on his bike and looked | :31:29. | :31:36. | |
for work. So are the similarities superficial or even misleading? Or | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
does the anger of the 1980s really resemble the anger of today? Is a | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
generation too young to remember those riots experiencing new causes | :31:46. | :31:51. | |
of resentment or simply engaging in opportunistic criminal acts? With | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
their thoughts on what lessons if any we can learn from the riots | :31:55. | :32:00. | |
the 1980s, I'm joined by Darcus Howe and former so far MP and government | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
minister Edwina Currie. Darcus, you see any echoes of the 1980s? | :32:05. | :32:13. | |
Not echoes, only a continuation, and these huge moments, which began | :32:13. | :32:22. | |
the 80s, and then you toodle along, and then another explosion and what | :32:22. | :32:28. | |
strikes me is the absolute ignorance of the punters, who have no idea | :32:28. | :32:35. | |
what's going among young blacks, they have no idea what are thinking, | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
they have no idea when they are about to explode. Did you know? | :32:38. | :32:43. | |
you have a sense that this was going to happen? Absolutely. Why? I | :32:43. | :32:49. | |
have a grandson, who is 15, and who cannot count the number of times he | :32:49. | :32:57. | |
was stopped and searched. And every time he tells it to you, his | :32:57. | :33:03. | |
intonation changeses. And that is what's been going on behind | :33:03. | :33:08. | |
backs of society, this constant stopping and searching of young | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
blacks. The gratuitously. Let bring in Edwina Currie, that is | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
echo of the 1980s, isn't it? don't think it's anything like the | :33:17. | :33:24. | |
1980s. In those days, I was in Birmingham, and we had the riots in | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
Hamsworth, which you haven't mentioned. In those days, | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
a lot of racism, it was almost respectable to be racist, and | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
of institutions were and the youngsters I think in many ways were | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
justified in their complaint. They weren't justified in their | :33:38. | :33:41. | |
behaviour, that's a different matter, but since then, an enormous | :33:41. | :33:47. | |
amount of effort has been put in by people like Darcus and many others | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
that we have interviewed tonight to improve those communities and give | :33:51. | :33:56. | |
everybody a reasonable chance. What we have got now, we heard Shaun | :33:56. | :34:03. | |
earlier called it yobbery, with robbery, kids who are taking the | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
opportunity to go and steal, they are covering it up with this | :34:07. | :34:10. | |
political cloak of invisibility. We all have to take responsibility | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
our actions. The police have to take responsibility for their actions, | :34:13. | :34:17. | |
but so, I think, do these young people, whatever their | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
and colour, they are responsible for what they are doing. Darcus, I take | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
it you accept that, they are responsible for what they are doing, | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
there's no excuse for it. I'm not making any excuse for you, I'm | :34:30. | :34:36. | |
telling you, quietly and seriously, what side I'm on. Am I on the side | :34:36. | :34:43. | |
of my grandson? Absolutely yes. We brought him up, he's a decent | :34:43. | :34:49. | |
fellow, constantly, at first he thinks, oh, I'm now being initiated, | :34:49. | :34:55. | |
what happens, a policeman stopped me, for what? You give me the 20 | :34:55. | :35:01. | |
seconds before you stopped, nothing. And they keep doing it. It is as | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
though they're drawn to humiliating a particular race in a particular | :35:04. | :35:09. | |
place. Do you not think, to pick up Edwina Currie's point though, that | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
things have changed a lot in the past 30 years? Racism is | :35:13. | :35:18. | |
not respectable now and there tinge of it then which was to some | :35:18. | :35:24. | |
people regarded as okay, and that's gone, that has changed. Edwina | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
fine person, and she knows that I think that about her, but I would | :35:28. | :35:37. | |
never listen to Edwina describe how much racism there is at any given | :35:37. | :35:42. | |
society - let me finish, she has never known, and she will never know | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
Edwina, you will never know, other words white people probably | :35:46. | :35:51. | |
just don't get what a 15-year-old black kid in this country feels. | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
With all due respect to Darcus, think he demeans himself, as a very | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
responsible and dignified man, by defending what is totally | :36:00. | :36:02. | |
indefensible. The behaviour of the people that we've seen on the | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
streets, whatever their background or colour, and no doubt there are | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
all sorts involved, particularly on Saturday and over the weekend, | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
are destroying the communities they live in themselves. | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
destroy the businesses that are owned by black people, destroying | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
the homes of black people, leaving people completely bereft and | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
bewildered, their own sisters, brothers, mothers and uncles and | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
aunts, not the behaviour of a group of people with any kind of morality. | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
The problem is not they're disconnected from jobs, but they're | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
disconnected from any real sense right or wrong, any sense that says, | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
what's mine is mine, and what's yours is yours, and I don't touch | :36:44. | :36:52. | |
it. These kids are saying, "Haye, we can have the trainers my mum won't | :36:52. | :36:59. | |
buy me or the latest Blackberry, can just go and take it". As a | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
former MP, she knows where the thieves are and how many of them | :37:03. | :37:10. | |
in prison now. I do not wish to make a point on this, but young blacks, | :37:10. | :37:16. | |
fine citizens of this country to be, are constantly being% recruited by | :37:16. | :37:23. | |
the police. I have - persecuted by the police. I have never been on | :37:23. | :37:28. | |
bail for 10 years of my life and I would never give up, and what I say | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
to them is you will get insurance for burning the place down | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
and let's go away. Thank you very much. The trouble has spread | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
beyond London to Birmingham, as we said, tonight so our reporter Claire | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
Marshall has spent the evening in Birmingham city centre. What's been | :37:45. | :37:50. | |
happening? I've just come back the city centre, it is | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
extraordinary, it hasn't reached heights of London, but everywhere I | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
went, I saw people looting chemists, mobile phone shops, banks, a cash | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
point machine almost entirely - almost pulled out of a shop. They | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
didn't seem to really be troubled by the thought of potentially | :38:07. | :38:12. | |
identifying themselves, there was a real sense of menace, a lot of | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
people who were extremely scared, I spoke to one girl, just 18, she and | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
her boyfriend had been coming into Birmingham on the bus to go for | :38:19. | :38:25. | |
night out, the bus had pulled up the traffic lights, a mob who were | :38:25. | :38:30. | |
attacking a shop started hurling rocks at the bus and breaking the | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
windows. A lot of people saying have seen mindless violence. A few | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
people have - not supported the consequences of what is happening | :38:37. | :38:41. | |
here, but who have some sympathy why it's happening. One young lady, | :38:41. | :38:48. | |
an outreach worker, said, "I'm not a thief but I feel a sense of anger". | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
She said young people are feeling frustration that they have no | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
opportunities, and this is out of a sense of that, that they're | :38:55. | :39:00. | |
never going to see anything better in their lives. Another young girl | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
called the police racist and described this as some kind | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
that would go on. Just coming back to the BBC offices, we're | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
building here, which is the equivalent of Bond Street in London, | :39:11. | :39:19. | |
the mailbox extremely well - classy shops here, the Armani shop had been | :39:19. | :39:24. | |
looted and police were trying move them out. They seem to be | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
moving around trying to get a hands, but we say in one police as | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
reporters, and the looters come back. There are a lot of police, we | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
they seem to be trying to move around, to try to do what they can, | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
but it's still going on. Certainly no signs of it stopping here at the | :39:41. | :39:45. | |
moment. Thanks, Claire. We're getting reports tonight that Essex | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
and Suffolk police will be sending some of their personnel to help out | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
the Metropolitan Police in London. We'll return to the disorder across | :39:53. | :39:55. | |
London at the end of the programme but there has been another | :39:55. | :40:00. | |
story today, financial markets around the world plunged yet again | :40:00. | :40:03. | |
despite the news that the Central Bank was now buying Spanish | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
and Italian bonds and further attempts by government leaders to | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
calm the storm. So is the West heading for a second recession and | :40:10. | :40:17. | |
what can be done to stop this? Verity on today's bloodbath. | :40:17. | :40:22. | |
Where is the world economy heading? Stock markets went into panic today | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
that we might be heading for second global recession. Is anyone | :40:25. | :40:31. | |
in control? Or is this a runaway train? We are not in an ordinary | :40:31. | :40:36. | |
recession and the turn great recession as people have been | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
calling it is misleading, it's not like a bad flu but more like | :40:41. | :40:46. | |
pneumonia. Since the age of steam, political leaders have been told by | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
their economic advisers that they're heading for a slump, they | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
know how to change direction, are crucial levers of commission | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
policy, cutting interest rates, slashing taxes or printing money, | :40:56. | :41:02. | |
but two years after the last slump, are there any levers left to pull? | :41:02. | :41:10. | |
The Keynesian way is to boost public spending. Any chance of that? It's | :41:10. | :41:16. | |
very difficult, this is what we have been doing over the past few years, | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
is governments have jumped in and made up the private consumption, now | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
we see the consequences of that, credit ratings are at risk, | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
investors are reluctant to invest any longer in these economies, so we | :41:28. | :41:33. | |
can't keep doing that. In the United States you saw that. Governments | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
could cut taxes now, then raise them later. That idea is gaining support, | :41:37. | :41:42. | |
but it's not easy to square with austerity. The big fear in the | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
market is we're going from fiscal stimulus to massive fiscal | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
retrenchment in a very short space of time, when the economy is already | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
very weak. If they can limit the near term tightening and maybe be | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
clearer about what they're do over the medium term, then | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
think that might help confidence to some extent. But in spite of | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
years of fiscal stimulus, Wall Street plunged by 6% today in panic | :42:06. | :42:11. | |
selling. The price of oil has fallen by $13 since the start of the week. | :42:11. | :42:17. | |
The most powerful leaders in the world are exasperated. The gridlock | :42:17. | :42:20. | |
in Washington over the last several months has not been constructive, | :42:20. | :42:26. | |
say the least. We knew from the outset that a prolonged debate over | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
the debt ceiling, a debate where the threat 6 default was used as | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
bargaining chip, could do enormous damage to our economy and the | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
world's. That threat, coming after a string of economic disruptions in | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
Europe, Japan and the Middle East, has now riled the markets. The | :42:44. | :42:46. | |
first response to a first response to a slowdown | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
be to cut interest rates, in the and UK, that lever has been pulled | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
as far as it can go. The ECB now could, because they have raised | :42:54. | :42:59. | |
rates this year, and they could take the overnight borrowing rate back | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
down to single digits, and that may happen. We're getting to a point | :43:03. | :43:08. | |
where either the market start to find a base or policy | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
makers will be increasingly desperate to find ways to stabilise | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
things, but in this vicious circle, it's hard for them to do so. The US | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
and UK have effectively printed close to half a trillion pounds | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
since the banking crisis struck, if they pull that lever again, would | :43:24. | :43:28. | |
fuel inflation? This is a really question, how big should | :43:28. | :43:32. | |
quantitative easing be, that's what they call the printing money, | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
buying bonds that the Federal Reserve has done and the ECB has | :43:36. | :43:39. | |
done through the back door. Frankly, they need to come out and say, | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
trying to raise the inflation rates, we have targeted, we will do it in | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
unlimited amounts until we achieve our target, and when inflation gets | :43:49. | :43:54. | |
on, interest rates will go up, we'll be able to use normal monetary | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
policy. Believe it or not, this is what Western economists have been | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
advising Japan for a long time and when it comes to us doing the same | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
thing, we say wait, that's a little scary. I'm afraid it's a risk that | :44:06. | :44:12. | |
has to be taken. That obviously the easiest option, but it's not | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
consistent with the mandates Central Banks, particularly not here | :44:15. | :44:20. | |
in Europe, the ECB has a clear mandate to achieve stability, so | :44:20. | :44:24. | |
that would be a breach of the treaty. If the ECB would embark on | :44:24. | :44:30. | |
an inflationary policy. This is also the last thing that they will do. | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
Central Banks and governments have spent decades trying to tame | :44:33. | :44:38. | |
inflation, denouncing it as the greatest of economic evils, it's the | :44:38. | :44:43. | |
mark of the extremity of this debt crisis that it's now seen by others, | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
economists and private investors, as the most realistic hope we have. | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
Come back inflation, all is forgiven. | :44:50. | :44:56. | |
That was Andy Verity reporting on the other big story today, more on | :44:56. | :45:01. | |
our top story, more from Liz, the latest? Without doubt, | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
during the time we have been on air, the situation is getting worse but | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
it's so fast moving that you can't be entirely sure of all the reports | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
we're hearing. The latest is of fire in Notting Hill in West London, | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
where no less than David used to live, before he became Prime | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
Minister. We're also hearing well as the fire that's still on in | :45:23. | :45:31. | |
Croydon, there are reports of youths rampaging in Clapham, South London, | :45:31. | :45:36. | |
even with petrol bombs, according to a cameraman at the scene. There are | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
still problems in other districts of London. We should say, it's not | :45:41. | :45:45. | |
right across London at all, these are small areas, but where they're | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
happening, it's seething and the atmosphere is extremely difficult, | :45:49. | :45:52. | |
not just for police but for residents and business owners, so | :45:52. | :46:00. | |
we're seeing problems in Ilfor did,, step any green in East London, and | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
Lewisham still. There's a lot of anger out there, really directed at | :46:04. | :46:09. | |
two targets, certainly the mainly very young youths who are | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
responsible for it, who are running around looting, causing damage | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
stealing things, setting fires, but anger too at the police, and | :46:17. | :46:22. | |
is this view that really the police, they might be dealing | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
difficult situation, but they didn't respond quickly enough, nor are | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
meeting - Sorry to interrupt, these are some pictures from Birmingham | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
just in, as you can see, the police with the shields on the | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
streets of Birmingham tonight. And that situation has been spreading, | :46:37. | :46:42. | |
and we heard earlier there had nine arrests there, different | :46:42. | :46:48. | |
things, all of youths, some of them juveniles, I think six of the nine | :46:48. | :46:51. | |
juveniles, this is what we're seeing in London too, very young people | :46:51. | :46:56. | |
getting involved. Thanks very much. Let's have a look at the front pages | :46:56. | :47:06. | |
:47:06. | :47:19. | ||
of tomorrow. of tomorrow. | :47:19. | :47:22. | |
Full-scale alert as violent riots Full-scale alert as violent riots | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
spread across capital. That's all from Newsnight tonight, I will be | :47:26. | :47:29. |