Browse content similar to 01/09/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
If the Government gets its way, it is going to become a lot more | :00:07. | :00:11. | |
difficult to say no when developers decide they want to build on the | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
countryside. Is it change in the planning laws way to national | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
prosperity, jobs and happiness, or a way to splatter car bungles all | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
over the face of a much loved countryside. The plan to let | :00:23. | :00:27. | |
builders loose on the land has set the Conservatives against | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
conservationist, and cast Liberal Democrats as enemies of local | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
democracy. Is the coalition planning for the future or selling | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
out to commercial vandals. The chairman of the national Trust is | :00:37. | :00:44. | |
here to sort out the planning minister. Gaddafi remains defiant | :00:44. | :00:49. | |
as NATO bombs his remaining strongholds in Libya. And the | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
National Transitional Council goes to Paris to be anointed by world | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
leaders. We pay tribute to your bravery, and to the many who have | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
lost their lives, or have been injured. But as has been said, the | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
struggle is not yet over. And how, ten years after September | :01:06. | :01:13. | |
1th, the toxic dust from the Twin Towers ensures killing and sicks | :01:13. | :01:20. | |
goes on. One morning he didn't go round, I went up to check on him, | :01:20. | :01:30. | |
:01:30. | :01:31. | ||
and I found him dead on the floor. This country is crawling is | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
hysterical, nihilistic people, according to the coalition | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
Government, they include the members of the National Trust, | :01:38. | :01:43. | |
Friends of the Earth, the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, | :01:43. | :01:48. | |
and the Bat Conservation Trust, these deranged organisations, are | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
furious at plans by the Government to allow concrete to be laid in the | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
countryside. The coalition propose that is the plan authority, should | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
in future, abandon the principles of the last 60 years, and be biased | :01:59. | :02:07. | |
in favour of developers. First we report from Gloucestershire. | :02:07. | :02:13. | |
This is Slad Valley in Gloucestershire, which inspired the | :02:13. | :02:20. | |
classic book Cider with Rosy, by Laurie Lee, now it is at the centre | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
of planning dispute with implications for the entire country. | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
It is about four dozen houses that could go up on these fields on the | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
one hand, but on the other, it is who makes weather in terms of | :02:31. | :02:37. | |
planning, local politicians or property developers. The bucolic | :02:37. | :02:46. | |
Slad Valley has become a test case, you could call it "Decider with | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
Rosy". Newsnight met some of the locals, who are resisting plans by | :02:51. | :02:59. | |
Barrett Homes to built 48 hourss in the valley. It is an area of | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
outstanding - - 48 houses in the valley. It is an area of | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
outstanding beauty, it is a haven for wildlife, apart from a beauty | :03:07. | :03:13. | |
spot that attracts tourists and visitors to the area. The planning | :03:13. | :03:23. | |
:03:23. | :03:28. | ||
minister says people like you are exhibiting a nihilistic character. | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
In my great grandfather's day, for 20 years it was all I knew of the | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
world. Part of the charm of this world was it seemed untouched by | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
modernity, but developers hope to go construct rather more than cart | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
track in places like this, are making plans against the back drop | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
of a new Government document, released just a few days ago. Which | :03:49. | :03:57. | |
says there should be a: The local council which has a | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
Conservative majority of one, has rejected the proposals from | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
Barretts Homes, one member of the authority said ministers hadn't | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
explained the new planning dispensation. This may not be what | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
they are intending to do to alarm people, but they need to come and | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
make things much clearer. If they are not intending, I think a lot of | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
people think they are just going to intend to swamp people with a lot | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
of housing. If this isn't their intention, and I don't think it is, | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
they need to make it clearer. are doing bad job of selling a | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
policy? Yes, I suppose so, really. Barbara Tait isn't the only one | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
with a long face. Many other Tories, and Liberal Democrats, are thought | :04:39. | :04:46. | |
to be uneasy about the proposed changes to planning. And an | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
unprecedented alliance of conservation groups and | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
environmental groups are lining up against them. But many say more new | :04:52. | :05:00. | |
houses are badly needed. Most experts reckon we need between | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
perhaps 250,000-350,000 new homes in Britain if we are to meet | :05:03. | :05:09. | |
housing needs, we are way off that. We think the planning plans are | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
part of the measures needed to address the housing shortage, and | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
ensure everyone gets a decent home. A shortage of housing stock was | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
alsos cited by Barrett Homes, for their so far frustrated plans for | :05:24. | :05:34. | |
:05:34. | :05:50. | ||
It doesn't hurt the objectors' case that they a invoke the name of | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
Laurie Lee, the great countryman, it is not hard to know which side | :05:53. | :05:59. | |
he would be on. But concrete on his beloved valley, that would be like | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
taking pesticides to Wordsworth's Lake District. This stained glass | :06:03. | :06:09. | |
window, in celebration of Lee and his writing, will be dedicated at | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
his former parish church later this month. For now it won't be rattling | :06:12. | :06:19. | |
in its putty, as trucks and JCBs go down the valley. But the builders | :06:19. | :06:27. | |
eying Le, he's own home, are appealing the council's decision, - | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
Le, he's own home are appealing the council's decision. There is a lot | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
at stake inside the Rosy's country, the apple of a developer's eye. | :06:38. | :06:43. | |
With us to discuss this is the plan minister, Greg Clark and Simon | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
Jenkins, chairman of the National Trust, one of the organisations | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
campaigning against the Government's proposals. You say you | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
want to consult, if the vast majority of people with whom you | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
consult say there should not be a presumption in favour of the | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
developer, are you prepared to abandon that? Of course we will | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
listen to all the voices. We have been clear for a long time we think | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
it is important to simplify the planning system. My question was | :07:08. | :07:16. | |
whether you would listen, if the majority of people said you should | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
bane done the presumption in favour of the developer, you will drop it? | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
I'm not giving the answer before the consultation. We don't know | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
what the consultation will tell you, I'm interested to see how serious | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
you are taking it? It is important to simplify the planning process, | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
and have this presumption, how the presumption is expressed is an | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
important aspect, and we will take views on that. What is important, | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
and from your package there, is the land there would not be affected by | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
these proposals f it is protected landscape it would continue to be. | :07:48. | :07:54. | |
When you start using words like "nihilistic selfishness", or Vince | :07:54. | :08:00. | |
Cable talks about people being "semi-hysterical", what is the | :08:00. | :08:05. | |
reason or excuse for that sort of extreme language against people who | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
merely care what the countryside looks like? That was a quote from a | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
paper that quoted me saying quite the opposite, for people to say we | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
should have no development whatsoever, not to build the houses | :08:16. | :08:23. | |
we need for the future, in my experience, doesn't happen. To that | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
would-be selfish, and nihilisticically so if it happened, | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
my experience is most communities recognise the needs of the future. | :08:30. | :08:35. | |
You found this in your book, The English People. You recognised, I | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
seem to remember, when it came to parish council, that people who | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
lived in villages do care about the future, want to keep their pubs | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
alive and their families housed. How long has it been the policy of | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
the National Trust to oppose development and greater prosperity | :08:50. | :09:00. | |
:09:00. | :09:05. | ||
for people? This is not about growth. There is a chronic shortage | :09:05. | :09:11. | |
for rural land at the moment, nor is it about housing, there are a | :09:11. | :09:18. | |
third of a million houses waiting to be built. There is no shortage | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
of brownfield sites. National Trust is in favour of development, we do | :09:20. | :09:26. | |
a certain amount of it ourselves. The issue here is the nature of the | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
release of countryside in 65% of Britain, that is still ordinary | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
countryside, unprotected, and it is now highly vulnerable under this | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
plan. I am afraid the truth of the matter is, this plan is not | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
Government legislation. This is one of those case where is a group of | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
lobbies have got away with murder and they are laughing all over | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
their face at the moment. Why have you chosen to conduct this so- | :09:48. | :09:53. | |
called consultation in the dog days of summer and ending just about the | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
time parliament resumes its proper business? That is very long | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
standing commitment, we published a green paper 18 months ago in | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
opposition. We put a call for evidence out in January of this | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
year. We have got a three month consultation, I have asked the | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
select committee in parliament to scrutinise it. It is not going to | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
be adopted until next year. So there is a lot of time. Did you | :10:14. | :10:20. | |
write this document? Did you write it Greg? Of course I did, yes. | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
There are 360 references to business development in planning | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
law, there are four references to the countryside. It is the most | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
biased document I have ever seen. It is not planning document, it is | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
a lobbying document. That is not true, if you read it in detail. | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
has read it in detail, he has given you a word count. I invite viewers | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
to look at it. You will see the protection for the green belt is | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
there. I'm not a nihilistic person, we are in favour of simplification, | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
the planning laws were often ludicrously diligent, no question | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
about that. A lot of land can be taken up for development no, | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
question about that. What is extraordinary about the document, | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
is the document might have been written by the British Property | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
Federation, and I rather suspect it was, they are laughing all over | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
their faces, they can't believe their luck. You have written a dud | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
document, it badly needs redrafting? The document was put | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
forward in response to the consultation that we made through | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
the call to evidence, and actually we had contributions from | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
environmentalist, from people interested in historic environment, | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
from people in social housing. We had a spokesman earlier. The | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
planning system brings together all of these different groups, these | :11:31. | :11:37. | |
people who depend on the planning system functioning. We agree that | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
the planning system has become lost in translation. It has become | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
excessively long and complex. I think we can agree it nids to be | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
simplified. I look forward to the response of this consultation, to | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
have a forensic look, if you are taking 1300 pages to 52 I'm sure | :11:55. | :12:02. | |
not every sentence is expressed with the clarity that it might be. | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
I have great respect for the National Trust and will take | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
seriously these contributions. is at the moment unacceptable, it | :12:10. | :12:16. | |
will be a license to every Swampy, every lawyer, every shouter, there | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
will be one row after another about this. It is because it is the badly | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
drafted piece of law. The planning bar at the moment can't believe | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
their luck. All this is because you have produced a dud document. I | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
would love it to be a good document. But please, please, take the | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
consultation seriously. I do take the consultation seriously. But the | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
context of this is this is giving power to local communities. | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
have refused the opportunity to say whether you will change your mind | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
on the basis of the consultation, how can you possibly be taking it | :12:46. | :12:52. | |
seriously? I do take the responses seriously, we will look at them | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
carefully. You have declined to say you will change your mind on the | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
basis of what you have been told? What been told by the social | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
housing providers, and people who have represented the countryside, | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
such as the farmers and the country land association, that this is | :13:06. | :13:12. | |
crucial for the rural environment. So of course we will consider these | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
views. All the people want development, the development they | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
want is housing or warehouses or supermarkets. The only lobbies you | :13:19. | :13:21. | |
found on your side are the people who want development, including | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
farmers, I may say. What is extraordinary, I love the localism | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
bit in the Localism Bill, it is good stuff, you ruin it in the | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
planning framework, by saying, in effect, if a developers wants | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
something, and a local community doesn't want it, the developer will | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
win. That is not true. It gets rid of the imposition from above and | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
gives the final say to local communities. Why do you refer to | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
Government planning policy constantly throughout the document. | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
Government planning policy is pro- development. Because this is a | :13:53. | :13:59. | |
statement of national policies that sets out protection for the green | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
belt. Have you thought there might be something wrong about a policy | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
that manages to incite the detestation of the National Trust, | :14:06. | :14:14. | |
the Woodland Trust, the mammal - mammal Society, the Open Spaces | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
Society, the Bat Conservation Trust. Has it occurred to you you might be | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
wrong? I think they are reading more into it than they should. The | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
protections that are there, for the environment we all love and cherish | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
are very strong. I look forward to sitting down and going through it | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
in detail. You yourself don't even believe t when it comes to your own | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
backyard you don't believe in building over the countryside. We | :14:37. | :14:43. | |
know you think where at all possible all developments should be | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
on brownfield sites? That is what you said in 2008? Of course | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
communities will want to bring in brownfield sites. When there was | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
proposals in your constituency, you said where possible developments | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
should be on post industrial and brownfield sites. He did say that. | :15:00. | :15:05. | |
It has been ended. Mew view is these decisions should be taken by | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
local communities, I think local communities will want to bring into | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
use derelict land, first, we shouldn't impose from above | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
requirements. If they wanted to, this is something I have fought for | :15:18. | :15:24. | |
in my constituency over many years, if they want the leafy aspect of a | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
town and preserve gardens in towns and rather make a choice to bring | :15:27. | :15:32. | |
into use a piece of land that might be at the edge of town by a roadway, | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
in order to keep leafy gardens within the towns, that should be | :15:36. | :15:41. | |
something open to that community. Why have you ended the presumption | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
in favour of developing existing derelict sites. The previous | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
presumption in favour of housing and development going on to what is | :15:50. | :15:55. | |
called brownfield sites, which are more derelict and empty sites than | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
ever before in Britain because of recession, that is ended. There is | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
a clear expectation that council should bring back into use derelict | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
sites. Colonel Gaddafi is still at large tonight, and a little earlier | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
tonight popped up again, as he does, talking about setting Libya ablaze. | :16:12. | :16:17. | |
He spent the 42nd anniversary of his coup somewhere in hiding. | :16:17. | :16:22. | |
TRANSLATION: I tack them with rifles, with bullets - attack them | :16:22. | :16:28. | |
with rifles, with bullets, let them speak, let it be a long battle. We | :16:28. | :16:34. | |
will fight from place to place, from city to city, from mountain to | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
mountain, let us shout at them they can't rule the Libyan people. Let | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
it be a long trial until the victory. While the colonel was in | :16:43. | :16:49. | |
full flow, the Friends of Libya, as they are officially known, were | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
gathering in Paris to meet the heads of the revolution that has | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
unseated him. 60 nations recognise the National Transitional Council | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
as the Government of Libya. Everyone from America to the | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
Palestinian Authority, including the newest member of this club, | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
Russia, who announced their membership today. Even the Chinese, | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
who once thought that no-one had any business protecting Libyans | :17:08. | :17:14. | |
from that nice Mr Gaddafi. The meeting was about to - how to | :17:14. | :17:21. | |
rebuild the country, of which all now claim to be sponsors. | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
David Cameron said tonight the early signs from Libya are | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
incredibly impressive, he said that NATO operations will continue as | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
long as they are needed, and those who have committed what he called | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
unspeakable crimes will be brought to justice. His overriteding theme | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
is that Libya will - overriding theme is that Libya will not become | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
another Iraq, and that the NATO intervention, the military campaign, | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
the bombing by Britain and France, has been fully vindicated. Last | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
time we met here in Paris, Gaddafi's tanks were at the gates | :17:54. | :17:59. | |
of Benghazi, and Gaddafi was openly vowing to hunt down and kill his | :17:59. | :18:05. | |
own people, as he called it, like rats. Massacre loomed. Five months | :18:05. | :18:11. | |
later, the Libyan people have taken their country back. Taking their | :18:11. | :18:17. | |
country back, but offer 4 years, what will they do with it after 42 | :18:17. | :18:22. | |
years, what will they do with it. This conference is supposed to be | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
all about securing the peace and securing that future, that might be | :18:25. | :18:27. | |
more tricky than ousting Colonel Gaddafi. | :18:27. | :18:33. | |
They rolled up in their grand cars, each nation flying its own flag, | :18:33. | :18:40. | |
making its presence clear. 13 heads of state, 19 premiers, and | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
ministers and diplomats by the score. These are the Friends of | :18:43. | :18:49. | |
Libya, turning a page in the day's favoured phrase "opening a chapter, | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
and hoping for the best". This is the day the new leaders of Libya | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
introduced themselves to a wider world. A world where everyone seems | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
to have their own reasons for casting themselves as friends of | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
Libya, a world in which the new leaders of Libya, need all the | :19:03. | :19:09. | |
friend they can get. - all the friends they can get. | :19:09. | :19:16. | |
This is a North African born academic, who has lectured on Libya | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
politics in Europe and the US. He has watched the discussions here in | :19:21. | :19:28. | |
Paris, when they have yet to enter their own capital, Tripoli. | :19:28. | :19:35. | |
They don't have any legitimacy, they were not elected. It is so | :19:35. | :19:40. | |
Arabic. Why do you say it is so Arabic? Because for them it is | :19:40. | :19:45. | |
always running for the support of the western countries. And in a | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
certain way, in my vue, there was a complicity of western countries - | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
view, there was a complicity of western countries, about what | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
happened for 50 years in this area. Without the support of the western | :19:58. | :20:06. | |
countries, they never can stay for 42 years. History has to be buried | :20:06. | :20:13. | |
as well? Of course. The RAF were in action yesterday, their bombs and | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
flares assisting the anti-Gaddafi forces. In France, President | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
Sarkozy, is hoping the success of the Libyan mission, will also help | :20:21. | :20:27. | |
his election campaign. Even some of his oppont ponnents believe his | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
motivation - opponents believe his motivation goes beyond that, recent | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
history recalls the war in the Balkans. What did not happen in | :20:36. | :20:42. | |
time in Bosnia, when the city of Srebrenica, was emptied of its male | :20:42. | :20:50. | |
inhabitants, who were subsequently destroyed, when faced with a | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
similar contingency in Benghazi, when Gaddafi promised to chase the | :20:53. | :20:59. | |
rebels like rats in the city, there was the opportunity to demonstrate | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
that what the previous generation had gotten wrong, this generation | :21:03. | :21:09. | |
was going to get right. Indeed tonight, President Sarkozy spoke of | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
what he considered the great success of the Libyan intervention, | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
with the horrors of what happened in Yugoslavia. TRANSLATION: What we | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
wanted to see was a policy backed and authorised by the United | :21:21. | :21:28. | |
Nations, which puts military might at the service of protecting | :21:28. | :21:34. | |
civilians populations likely to be massacred and martyred by their own | :21:34. | :21:40. | |
leadership. There have been tens of thousands of lives that have been | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
spared in Libya, thanks to this intervention. | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
In the Megreb itself there is apprehension about what has | :21:49. | :21:55. | |
happened in Libya. In these uncertain days they are seeking | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
guarantees, assurances, that the fighting will stop at the borders. | :21:58. | :22:04. | |
They have to give some assurance to the neighbour, Tunisia, Al Goreia, | :22:04. | :22:14. | |
:22:14. | :22:18. | ||
Egypt, that this destablisation is not going to spread around them. | :22:18. | :22:26. | |
Especially in Algeria. The risk exists. You never know, but there | :22:26. | :22:31. | |
are 150 tribes in Lybia, it is not nation. What unites all Libyans | :22:31. | :22:39. | |
today is need. The first �140 million of Libyan bank notes was | :22:39. | :22:44. | |
flown in from the printing plant in the UK. It was Libya's own cash | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
frozen by sanctions. There is billions more where that came from, | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
and it can't arrive quickly enough. That sense of urgency was reflected | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
in the comments of the UN Secretary-General in Paris tonight. | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
The immediate challenge for us, for the international community, is how | :23:00. | :23:09. | |
to address humanitarian challenges. Roughly 860,000 people have left | :23:09. | :23:14. | |
the country since February, including skilled workers. Medicine, | :23:14. | :23:20. | |
food, and particularly water, are in short supply. There is a major | :23:20. | :23:27. | |
crisis on this matter. How confident are they that what | :23:27. | :23:33. | |
was agreed today will stick? think everybody knows that there | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
are potentially very serious divisions here. President Sarkozy | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
was asked with David Cameron, why he and his friend, Dave from | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
Downing Street, hadn't actually gone to trip trim themselves. They | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
tried to laugh it off - Tripoli themselves. And they tried to laugh | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
it off and say they will go when they are invited by the | :23:50. | :23:52. | |
transitional council will invite them. Nobody mentioned that the | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
people from that council themselves had yet to venture into their own | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
capital city. This is tricky. are events going down in Libya | :24:00. | :24:08. | |
tonight itself. We're in Benghazi. What's the word? Well, obviously | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
most people here in Benghazi are delighted by the symbolic aspect of | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
this conference, and maybe that is the most important aspect, the | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
welcoming of Libya's new leadership into the international community. | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
Beyond that, a senior figure in the National Transitional Council this | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
evening gave me a long and very interesting list of what he thinks, | :24:27. | :24:33. | |
and what the council thinks, Libya needs first in terms of practical | :24:33. | :24:39. | |
help. He talked first of all about administrative and technical help | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
getting the economy and the oil industry going again. They think | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
that can be done within three months. Help in training the police, | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
because although the new Libya has firmly rejected the offer of | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
foreign boots on the ground, it is very worried about law and order. | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
It is worried that police are only capable at the moment of serving a | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
dictatorship, not a democracy interestingly, he also talked about | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
help in recording human rights abuse, because they are convinced | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
they will find more mass graves of Gaddafi victims. That said, and | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
that's already sounding part of what would be a colossal task in | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
rebuilding, it is important to say that Libya does have some | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
considerable advantages compared to some other post conflict countries, | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
not only the oil industry, but also a very sizeable and educated | :25:28. | :25:34. | |
middle-class and many people, as Ban Ki-Moon referred to, gone away, | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
but many coming back, skilled emgreys, and want to go serve the | :25:38. | :25:48. | |
:25:48. | :25:53. | ||
country again. We're joined by Ban Ki-Moon's adviser responsible for | :25:53. | :25:58. | |
the conflict in Libya. I gather you are off to Libya? I hope to be in | :25:58. | :26:05. | |
Tripoli on Saturday. What is your job there? This first visit will be | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
to continue discussion that is we have been having with the National | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
Transitional Council about exactly what role they want the United | :26:11. | :26:17. | |
Nations to play. Secretary-general Ban Ki-Moon, and those of us on his | :26:17. | :26:23. | |
delegation, had that discussion here today in Paris, with Chairman | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
Jalisco, and Dr Jibril, that followed on earlier discussions I | :26:27. | :26:34. | |
had. We want to be sure whatever the UN does corresponds to Libyan | :26:34. | :26:43. | |
wishes, and needs as we understand them on the ground. | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
How strange is it that the National Transitional Council is anointed in | :26:47. | :26:53. | |
France but failing to set foot on the ground in Tripoli? Several | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
members of the National Transitional Council are in Tripoli, | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
and have been for some time, including a deputy Prime Minister | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
and other ministers of the council. But I'm not sure exactly what the | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
latest plans are for the top leaders of the National | :27:08. | :27:14. | |
Transitional Council to go there. When they do they will start a | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
process in which they have already made some time-bound commitments, | :27:19. | :27:24. | |
as to when elections will take place. And one of the issues they | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
have made most clear today and previously, is they are looking to | :27:28. | :27:33. | |
the United Nations for support, is in the unfolding of an electoral | :27:33. | :27:39. | |
process, a process in which constitutions will be adopted and | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
endorsed by a referendum. You may have heard this in private | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
conversation, but it wasn't public today, this question of the eight- | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
month timetable before the re- elections, that didn't seemed to be | :27:49. | :27:55. | |
mentioned today. Was it privately, are they still sticking to that? | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
didn't discuss the timing, but the National Transitional Council, | :27:59. | :28:06. | |
there is in writing, they have adopted a covenant that it has been | :28:06. | :28:16. | |
:28:16. | :28:17. | ||
their intention to prom mull gate an interim constitution on the | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
formal day of declaration as they put it. What will be the main task | :28:21. | :28:30. | |
:28:31. | :28:31. | ||
for the UN in Libya? Electoral support is one of them, also | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
transitional justice, the difficult balance they will have to strike, | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
between accountability within the law for the most serious human | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
rights violations, compensation to victims, but on the other hand the | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
need for national reconciliation, and more broadly, the kind of human | :28:47. | :28:53. | |
rights and rule of law area. Then, of course, there is a huge agenda | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
of economic recovery. Today there were many offers of assistance | :28:58. | :29:04. | |
around the table in Paris. But both the major international actors, and | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
the Libyans themselves, have made clear that they want the United | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
Nations to take the lead in co- ordinating that. Co-ordination is | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
really very important in a post- conflict situation. We probably | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
have more mistakes than positive experiences to learn from in recent | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
post-conflict context. You are confident, are you, that they have | :29:24. | :29:31. | |
a coherent plan that they will stick to? They certainly have plan. | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
One can't say that is not going to be subject to further discussion. | :29:35. | :29:40. | |
Because indeed one of the first things that they are committed to | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
is expanding the base of the National Transitional Council | :29:43. | :29:49. | |
itself. Which will serve as the sort of first body designating | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
within 30 days an interim Government. And they themselves are | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
saying, and everybody in the international community is saying, | :29:56. | :30:04. | |
it is extremely important that council is as inclusive as possible | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
of different sections of Libyan society. So I think there are some | :30:07. | :30:12. | |
decisions to be made there, first. In the meantime, they have, | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
effectively, to rebuild the entire apparatus of Government, haven't | :30:17. | :30:24. | |
they? I wouldn't go so far as that. They are very clear that one lesson | :30:24. | :30:30. | |
they have learned from Iraq, or reject any general comparisons with | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
Iraq, is the mistake that is made if you do try to disband, wholesale, | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
existing institutions. Whether it is the security forces, or the | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
public administration. So I don't think they intend to do that. But | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
the problem is, although there was some institutions in Libya, the | :30:47. | :30:53. | |
national oil company, the Central Bank, that were run by extremely | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
competent technocrats, loot of the other institutions of an | :30:56. | :31:06. | |
:31:06. | :31:08. | ||
accountable democratic state have run efficiently. That applies to | :31:08. | :31:13. | |
elections, there is no living memory of elections in Libya. | :31:13. | :31:19. | |
Next week we will see the 10th anniversary when out of the clear | :31:19. | :31:25. | |
blue sky two airplanes were flown into the world trade centres in New | :31:25. | :31:31. | |
York City. Over 2,000 people perished. The Twin Towers released | :31:31. | :31:36. | |
a cloud of toxic dust that blanketed Lower Manhatten and | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
Brooklyn and New Jersey. Over 18,000 people have received | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
treatment for World Trade Center related illnesses. More fatalities | :31:45. | :31:55. | |
:31:55. | :32:02. | ||
are expected. We report now from New York. | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
A sight that has become the definition of terror. The | :32:06. | :32:12. | |
destruction of the Twin Towers. An onslaught that killed nearly | :32:12. | :32:17. | |
3,000 people. But ten years on, the attack isn't over. | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
The dust that overwhelmed the streets of Lower Manhatten, became | :32:22. | :32:31. | |
a weapon. The clouds contained particles of pulverised concrete. | :32:31. | :32:37. | |
Asbestos, lead from 50,000 computers. Murky from countless | :32:37. | :32:45. | |
light bull - mercury from countless lightbulbs, a poisonous legacy, | :32:45. | :32:55. | |
:32:55. | :33:04. | ||
Jeff Endean is one of those who breathed in that dust. Today he's | :33:04. | :33:11. | |
seeing one of his doctors, Mike Crane, at New York's mountsi nigh | :33:11. | :33:19. | |
hospital. - mountsi nigh Hospital. He has coughing fits like this all | :33:19. | :33:29. | |
:33:29. | :33:30. | ||
the time. A police officer, he was at Ground Zero for three months, | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
first searching for survivors, then clearing up remains. This is a | :33:34. | :33:41. | |
regular check-up. The dust has exacted a heavy price. | :33:41. | :33:47. | |
Jeff used to be highly active, an expert in firearms, his health has | :33:47. | :33:52. | |
collapsed and he's now retired. We first met him and his wife Eileen | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
at their home in New Jersey five years ago. | :33:55. | :34:04. | |
I have scaring on my lungs, plural thickening, some kind of leisons, a | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
reactive airway disease. Today another battery of tests. According | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
to a recent study, emergency responders are suffering from | :34:12. | :34:18. | |
reduced breathing capacity, and they are not getting better. Take a | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
breathe force it out, keep blowing, keep blowing, inhale quickly, take | :34:23. | :34:33. | |
:34:33. | :34:36. | ||
it out of your mouth. Are you OK? | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
Uniform staff, like Jeff, were on the frontline. Police, firemen, | :34:40. | :34:45. | |
medical workers. Here is were the people the world saw battling | :34:45. | :34:50. | |
through the wreckage. But out of sight, beyond the cameras, was an | :34:50. | :34:56. | |
army of people toiling in the dust as well. Telecoms engineers, | :34:56. | :35:06. | |
:35:06. | :35:06. | ||
contractors and cleaners. The latest official US Government | :35:06. | :35:11. | |
figures show that just over 60,000 people are now registered as being | :35:11. | :35:19. | |
at risk from inhaling the dust. Most of them are emergency workers. | :35:19. | :35:24. | |
A staggering 18,462 received medical treatment in the last 12 | :35:24. | :35:33. | |
months. A number that's steadily rising. We still have new patients, | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
new bona fide genuine responders, who we have never seen before, | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
never been examined by a programme before, walking in the door every | :35:41. | :35:49. | |
day. We have 100-200 a month coming in. The word "dust ", itself, | :35:49. | :35:55. | |
sounds so innocent. So why exactly was this mixture so hazardous, and | :35:55. | :36:03. | |
why did it trigger such a huge impact. This scene was found in a | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
home close to Ground Zero, thousands of local residents were | :36:06. | :36:11. | |
vulnerable to the dust. The teddy bear was spotted by scientist, | :36:11. | :36:18. | |
loyal loyal loyal, while he was gathering - - by a scientist while | :36:18. | :36:25. | |
he was gathering samples. He and his colleagues examined the dust, | :36:25. | :36:31. | |
it was like nothing they had ever seen before. It was a collection of | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
different materials. Both buildings collapsed, there was cement, in | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
addition there was glass fibres, which basically were due to the | :36:40. | :36:46. | |
disintegration of 110 stories of glass, on each building. On top of | :36:46. | :36:53. | |
that you had residuals from the jet fuel, which basically bathed the | :36:53. | :37:00. | |
dust as both structures fell. mixed in there was a very long list | :37:00. | :37:07. | |
of toxins, asbestos, known to cause lung cancer, dioxins, notorious for | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
damaging the immune system, and dozens of others, like PCB, all | :37:11. | :37:18. | |
dangerous. But how do we know they are to blame? Well, at Mount Sinai | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
Medical Centre in Manhattan, they are seeing growing evidence. This | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
is the largest of the monitoring and treatment programmes. It is | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
where thousands of patients are seen. It is where a link between | :37:30. | :37:36. | |
the dust and their health looks more and more plausible. Even to | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
experts who first doubted it. on I wasn't convinced that we would | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
have chronic disease out of this. In a very short period of time, | :37:46. | :37:52. | |
weeks after 9/11, I was totally convinced. Absolutely and totally | :37:52. | :37:57. | |
convinced, and I remain so today, more so than ever. | :37:57. | :38:03. | |
Overshadowing all of this is a grim question. Whether inhaling the dust | :38:03. | :38:13. | |
:38:13. | :38:16. | ||
We travelled south, out of New York City, to the home of a family with | :38:16. | :38:25. | |
bitter experience of the dust. James was a New York detective, a | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
popular figure, a non-smoker, the winner of numerous police awards | :38:29. | :38:34. | |
and a father. He worked at Ground Zero for more than 400 hours. Soon | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
his health declined dramatically. He became so ill he had to move in | :38:38. | :38:46. | |
with his parents. His father, is a retired police chief. He made sure | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
his son took his medications. But then, one morning, five years ago, | :38:51. | :38:57. | |
Joe went to wake his son. morning he didn't come out. I | :38:57. | :39:03. | |
waited until 9.30, and then he didn't come out. So I went up to | :39:03. | :39:10. | |
check on him. I found him dead on the floor. He was dead on the floor. | :39:10. | :39:18. | |
They took him away, and he was so young. I even said to the police, I | :39:18. | :39:28. | |
:39:28. | :39:28. | ||
said see if you can get an autopsy done on him. They said coroner | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
already said he would do an autopsy. He's not going to sign a death | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
certificate until he does an autopsy, because he was so young, | :39:36. | :39:44. | |
and he wanted to know why he passed away. | :39:44. | :39:51. | |
The funeral, in January 2006, was a turning point. A pathologist | :39:51. | :39:57. | |
concluded that James Zadroga died of a rare lung disease, caused by | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
World Trade Center trust. The first official link between the dust and | :40:00. | :40:05. | |
a loss of life. The finding was disputed, but it also galvanised a | :40:05. | :40:12. | |
campaign for a new law, an act in James Zadroga's gaim name, to help | :40:12. | :40:19. | |
survivors - name, to help survivors. This weighty file is the Zadroga | :40:19. | :40:26. | |
Act, it is pages spelling out who is entitled to help. This doctor is | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
in charge of the file. He accepts that the world centre impact is | :40:30. | :40:36. | |
serious. Undoubtedly - World Trade Center impact is serious. | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
Undoubtedly there are people who have succumbed between the 9/11 | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
attack and now. Do you think it is plausible that some people will die | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
of their exposure? Oh yes. I think that it is plausible to think that | :40:49. | :40:54. | |
way. So, yes, people could die of many of these conditions that we | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
have seen associated with the exposures. | :40:57. | :41:03. | |
So, ten years on, there is now, finally, official recognition of | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
the threat. But the fact that it has take be so long, is a source of | :41:07. | :41:17. | |
:41:17. | :41:18. | ||
bitterness. There is a suspicion that the risks of the dust were | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
played down at the time. # God bless America | :41:22. | :41:29. | |
# My home sweet home Just one week after the attacks, | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
the New York Stock Exchange re- opened. A potent symbol of recovery. | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
Office workers, schoolchildren and residents were urged to return. But, | :41:38. | :41:48. | |
:41:48. | :41:50. | ||
was this too soon. The dust was still everywhere. Scientists | :41:50. | :41:55. | |
carried out checks around Ground Zero. And the head of the | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
Environmental Protection Agency declared the air safe to breathe. | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
We're monitoring constantly, we have taken dust samples and, except | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
for one time, one sample, one reading, and that came from dust | :42:09. | :42:14. | |
from a car from the epicentre, we have not seen any reason, any | :42:14. | :42:19. | |
reading that is indicate a health has standard. | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
Christine Todd Whitman has always toad by that statement, saying the | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
finds - stood by that statement, saying the findings on air quality | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
were correct. We asked for an interview, but she declined. We | :42:29. | :42:38. | |
turned to one of her former adviser, were the authorities ignoring the | :42:38. | :42:43. | |
dangers to reopen Manhattan. He blames others for misunderstanding | :42:43. | :42:50. | |
what she was saying. Based upon the asbestos results, the area around | :42:50. | :42:56. | |
Ground Zero was safe except for the pile. There was the caution, and | :42:57. | :43:00. | |
the EPA did say there are other things in there we don't know about. | :43:01. | :43:06. | |
So I didn't find any fault with what she said, I blame the media, I | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
blame the officials in the Government for trying to put us at | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
ease much too quickly. Hopefully we learned something. As a scientist, | :43:14. | :43:20. | |
you know what's in the dust, would you have been happy to return to an | :43:20. | :43:27. | |
apartment near Ground Zero within a week? Yes, if I had a respirator on, | :43:28. | :43:36. | |
absolutely. Without one, would you have gone there? | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
The huge construction project at Ground Zero, gathers pace. A vision | :43:40. | :43:45. | |
of optimisim, in a city back on its feet. But among those who worked on | :43:45. | :43:50. | |
the rubble, a new fear is emerging, that the dust didn't only lead to | :43:50. | :43:56. | |
the illnesses we are seeing now, it is also causing cancers. That's one | :43:56. | :44:02. | |
reason why there is a legal battle for compensation. I think we will | :44:02. | :44:08. | |
be seeing new diseases develop, 20, 30 years from now. It is going to | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
be a long, long period where more and more people get sick over the | :44:11. | :44:17. | |
course of time. This is just the beginning, this is not ten years | :44:17. | :44:23. | |
out the end. We're going to be facing people getting sick with | :44:23. | :44:25. | |
9/11-related injuries, and illnesses for another 20 years, at | :44:25. | :44:31. | |
least. When you come to New York and hear | :44:31. | :44:37. | |
the words "lawyer" and compensation, and you would be for given for | :44:37. | :44:43. | |
being cynical, this is the most lit tiingous city on the planet. When | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
you hear one of their health officials saying he thinks more | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
people will die because of the dust that billowed over here ten years | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
ago, you realise this is a serious and growing problem. The whole | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
question of the health impacts of 9/11, aren't just relevant on this, | :44:58. | :45:03. | |
the 10th anniversary, they will be relevant for many more | :45:03. | :45:13. | |
:45:13. | :45:18. | ||
Overlooking Manhattan, a memorial to James Zadroga, and a generation | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
born after 9/11. The attack won't be forgotten. Because for so many, | :45:23. | :45:32. | |
it is not over. Next week we will be reflecting on | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
how the world has changed in the decades since 9/11, culminating in | :45:37. | :45:41. | |
a special programme, with Kirsty, live from New York, next Friday. | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
Tomorrow morning's front pages now, the Telegraph reports that the | :45:44. | :45:50. | |
changes to the planning laws we were talking about earlier, would | :45:50. | :45:56. | |
result in about another 1,000 more major developments every year. The | :45:56. | :46:06. | |
:46:06. | :46:07. | ||
Financial Times has a picture of Strauss Khan returning to his home. | :46:07. | :46:14. | |
Madonna is on the front releasing a film premiering yesterday, it was | :46:14. | :46:23. | |
said to be Morrisable than anyone To expect! Peter Twis died today, | :46:23. | :46:30. | |
the first man to fly at more than 1,000 miles an hour. He achieved | :46:30. | :46:38. | |
the feat in 1956. Delta two preparing for the flight that will | :46:38. | :46:48. | |
:46:48. | :46:49. |