06/01/2012 Newsnight


06/01/2012

Kirsty Wark asks the NHS medical director why he won't recommend the removal of contaminated breast implants. Has Labour u-turned on cuts? And the Wall Street movie Margin Call.


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Transcript


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Germany joins France in recommending the removal those

:00:08.:00:13.

breast implants, why is the NHS still refusing to do the same?

:00:14.:00:17.

The least five countries have decided to recommend removal,

:00:17.:00:21.

Britain finds itself in a minority in refusing to follow suit. Our

:00:21.:00:25.

science editor is here. The Department of Health is fudging

:00:25.:00:28.

its position, it won't recommend removal, but now wants to see them

:00:28.:00:32.

taken out if the patient really wants it.

:00:32.:00:35.

The NHS Medical Director will be here to explain himself.

:00:35.:00:39.

Has Labour u-turned on the cuts they have, up until now, condemned.

:00:40.:00:43.

While these two keep quiet, it it is left to the Shadow Defence

:00:43.:00:48.

Secretary, to declare that spending plans must be credible, no populist.

:00:48.:00:53.

Ed Balls's point man, Chris Leslie, is here to clarify.

:00:53.:00:58.

Also tonight. Music is about to stop, and we are going to be left

:00:58.:01:06.

holding the biggest bag of odour ous excrement ever assembled in the

:01:06.:01:10.

history of capitalism. Inside a Wall Street bank the night

:01:10.:01:14.

before the great crash of 2008, we speak to the director of Margin

:01:14.:01:17.

Call. I didn't want to make charicatures

:01:17.:01:23.

of these people. I wanted to actually try to represent the

:01:23.:01:33.
:01:33.:01:42.

decision-making process. The Government tried to quell the

:01:42.:01:46.

outcry against the breast implant scandal. The German authorities did

:01:46.:01:50.

the opposite to Britain, Germany now says in the light of new

:01:50.:01:53.

evidence, it is joining, France, Israel, Venezuela and the Czech

:01:53.:01:56.

Republic, in recommending that women with these kind of implants

:01:56.:02:01.

should have them removed. Today's report by the NHS Medical Director,

:02:01.:02:06.

Sir Bruce Keogh, admits the data in the UK is wanting, seriously

:02:06.:02:09.

underreported he describes as information about the French

:02:09.:02:16.

implants. What of the 40,000 or so women with PIP implants to do. In a

:02:16.:02:18.

moment we will hear from Sir Bruce, but first this.

:02:18.:02:21.

We are at the end of the week when politicians across the globe had

:02:21.:02:25.

had hoped to have reassured the hundreds of thousands of women who

:02:25.:02:31.

have had breast implants from French company, PIP. But

:02:31.:02:36.

Governments differ markedly in their response and decidinging who

:02:36.:02:42.

will pay. -- deciding who will pay?

:02:42.:02:46.

Germans will remove the PIP implants, alongside Germany, Israel,

:02:47.:02:51.

Venezuela, in deciding to do that. I'm not sure how the health service

:02:51.:02:56.

works in ermgr, I understand there may be an assurance scheme that

:02:56.:03:01.

agree to do that, as in Israel. German authorities say they are

:03:01.:03:06.

changing their risk assessment due to the rising number of notices

:03:06.:03:10.

from doctors, trade organisations and hospitals in recent days. They

:03:10.:03:15.

go on to say that these notices, silicone from such implants,

:03:15.:03:20.

increasingly and over time can leak. The fact that so many Governments

:03:20.:03:25.

have have such different public positions raises the question about

:03:25.:03:28.

if they are sharing safety data as they might.

:03:28.:03:32.

It seems the quality of safety data from British clinics poor. Members

:03:32.:03:37.

of a panel intervened to advise the Government, and concedes the

:03:37.:03:40.

picture on rupture rates is uncertain, and the nature of the

:03:40.:03:45.

gel in the implants is unclear, as is the picture of how toxic the gel

:03:45.:03:50.

is. The group says it has no evidence to suggest it is dangerous.

:03:50.:03:53.

The expert group has made clear there is no link to Cannes, there

:03:53.:03:56.

are no specific safety concerns that require these implants to be

:03:56.:03:59.

removed. If women are understandably worried, we in the

:03:59.:04:03.

NHS are going to make it very clear they can get access to advice,

:04:03.:04:07.

scans, and to the removal of the implant, if necessary. We expect

:04:07.:04:11.

the private sector to offer the same service to the women whose

:04:11.:04:16.

implants they provide. Many plastic surgeries, both here in the UK, and

:04:16.:04:19.

internationally, are sticking to their position, that these implants

:04:19.:04:23.

should be reof moved. The Government seems to be relying --

:04:23.:04:26.

removed, the Government seems to be relying on the private clinics to

:04:26.:04:32.

follow aed model it set out for NHS -- follow a model it set out for

:04:32.:04:36.

the NHS clinics. There are a number coming out that they are going to

:04:36.:04:41.

pay for, obviously the patients to be seen and any scans they might

:04:41.:04:47.

need. If there is a clinical reason for the implant to come out then

:04:47.:04:51.

they will pay for it. There are others who have done much larger

:04:51.:04:55.

amounts, and there is a concern there about the financial

:04:55.:04:59.

arrangements. There is a plan ined today's report

:04:59.:05:03.

for continued monitoring, -- plan in today's report for continued

:05:03.:05:06.

monitoring and surveillance. A lot hangs on private clinics doing the

:05:06.:05:09.

right thing. So long as the independent sector play ball the

:05:09.:05:14.

way that the Government have told them to, then I think the women out

:05:14.:05:17.

there can be assured they will be looked after. It very clearly

:05:17.:05:20.

states that. The Government expects the private providers to look after

:05:20.:05:24.

their patients, as the Government are looking after their patients.

:05:24.:05:28.

The focus may now shift to the medicines and healthcare products

:05:28.:05:33.

regulatory agency, the MHRA, and how well it is overseeing this

:05:33.:05:38.

sector. Today the new head Europe's drug watchdog said there is an

:05:38.:05:42.

acute need to tighten regulations on medical devices. We need to take

:05:42.:05:45.

into consideration that this implant came in from a French of

:05:45.:05:51.

manufacturer, and was given a quality mark by the regulator in

:05:51.:05:54.

this country, and that needs to be taken into consideration. There

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needs to be some accountable for what happened. That the Protestant

:06:00.:06:05.

vieders did not purchase -- the providers did notp purchase these

:06:05.:06:08.

implants thinking they were substandard ones. What seems to be

:06:08.:06:12.

driving the Government is a determination to see the private

:06:12.:06:17.

clinics to cover the cost for having opted for these cheap French

:06:17.:06:20.

implants, but by gentle persuasion, whether they succeed remains to be

:06:20.:06:24.

seen. Earlier I asked the author of

:06:24.:06:28.

today's report, Sir Bruce Keogh, why the UK was at odds with other

:06:28.:06:32.

countries in had its advice on implant removal. What we have done

:06:32.:06:35.

is conduct a review that has looked at two things. First of all, the

:06:36.:06:39.

hard evidence around safety of these implants, and the second

:06:39.:06:42.

aspect was how to offer compassionate treatment to women

:06:42.:06:46.

who will be undoubtedly worried. In terms of the hard evidence that we

:06:46.:06:52.

have on safety, we know there isn't an increased Canneser risk we are

:06:52.:06:56.

uncertain about whether -- cancer risk. We are uncertain about

:06:56.:06:59.

whether there is an elevated risk, there is no evidence to suggest one

:06:59.:07:03.

way or another, we are looking at that. The hard scientific evidence

:07:03.:07:07.

as to whether or not this gel is more irritant suggests that it

:07:07.:07:11.

probably isn't. Having said that, we know it is more liquid, finally

:07:11.:07:15.

we have looked at what are the risks of redoing the surgery. So we

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have come to the view that when you add all of those up, we don't have

:07:20.:07:24.

hard evidence that it is unsafe, which is of course not the same as

:07:24.:07:28.

evidence of safety. You don't have evidence of safety, why not operate

:07:28.:07:32.

on the precautionary principle. The reason I say that, is because

:07:32.:07:39.

Germany, as it were, hard bd up its advice over evidence taken -

:07:39.:07:42.

hardened up its advice over evidence taken from hospitals. They

:07:42.:07:45.

have changed their advice and saying as a precautionary principle

:07:45.:07:49.

women should have them refd moved. Surely you should be trying to do

:07:49.:07:56.

the best for women. Naturally I will invited Germans to share their

:07:56.:07:59.

information with me. Should that not have happened up until now, the

:07:59.:08:04.

Germans, the Israelis, the Venezuelans and the Czech Republic?

:08:04.:08:09.

Yes, mew early indications is their evidence is -- my early indications

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their evidence is no harder than our's. Talk about two things there,

:08:13.:08:17.

first of all, what the Germans are saying is the evidence of

:08:17.:08:21.

degradation of these implants over time is significant. So, therefore,

:08:21.:08:25.

for a start, would it not be better to recommend women who have had

:08:25.:08:29.

them implanted for more than three years, they should be having them

:08:29.:08:33.

removed? We have considered that. Bear in mind that all breast

:08:33.:08:36.

implants degrade, and at continue years, about one in ten them will

:08:36.:08:40.

have failed any way. What we are doing, I think we are offering

:08:40.:08:44.

something that is a much better solution. It it is easy to offer

:08:44.:08:48.

the solution that everybody should just have them out. What we're

:08:48.:08:52.

doing...Is It, do it then? In the NHS we are doing something better.

:08:52.:08:56.

What we are doing is we are going to inform all patients who have had

:08:56.:09:00.

a PIP implant. We are going to write to them and offer them an

:09:00.:09:03.

opportunity of an informed consultation, with either their GP

:09:03.:09:07.

or a specialist breast surgeon. And on the basis that, we are offering

:09:07.:09:11.

them some personalised decision making which will take into account

:09:11.:09:14.

emerging evidence, and take into account their personal

:09:14.:09:17.

circumstances and wishes, and if they want the implants out,

:09:17.:09:22.

following that, we will take them out and we will replace them.

:09:22.:09:26.

be clear, we are talking with with implants put in on the NHS, we are

:09:26.:09:33.

not talking about private, of which that is the vast majority? Let me

:09:33.:09:39.

be clear, it is the expectation of this expert group that the NHS, we

:09:39.:09:44.

think, hax set a gold standard of - - has set a gold standard of duty

:09:44.:09:47.

of care. We expect the private sector to step up to the plate and

:09:47.:09:52.

offer the same level. The gold standard should exist across

:09:52.:09:58.

private and NHS? Clearly it should. You by your own admission. Can I

:09:58.:10:03.

read a disturbing part of the report which says, "we believe

:10:03.:10:07.

underreporting seriously affects the validity of PIP data and some

:10:07.:10:12.

comparative data about similar implants", on that very basis, and

:10:12.:10:19.

some ruptures, as many as two or three do not show in clinical

:10:19.:10:23.

symptom, and can only be shown by removal. You have made a decision

:10:23.:10:27.

baseded on information which you yourself say is -- based on

:10:27.:10:32.

information which you yourself say is underreported seriously. That is

:10:33.:10:38.

no reassurance for women, you don't have the data? The extent of

:10:38.:10:42.

underreporting is haveous. We have asked for data from those

:10:42.:10:44.

organisations that implant the breast implants. They are showing

:10:44.:10:50.

the PIP implant, that the risk of rupture on this data is five-hold

:10:50.:10:54.

less than other data. We are -- five-fold less than other data. We

:10:54.:10:59.

are discarding that data. We are looking at compassionate treatment

:10:59.:11:03.

for worried women. We are expecting the private sector to step up to

:11:03.:11:05.

the plate and offer these consultations and personalised

:11:05.:11:10.

decision making with women in the same way that the NHS is. They will

:11:10.:11:14.

have to pay to have them removed? We don't expect the private sector

:11:14.:11:20.

to charge people to have them reof moved. And, where women feel they

:11:20.:11:22.

have been failed by the private sector, because either the

:11:22.:11:25.

organisation has gone out of business, or the surgeries have

:11:25.:11:29.

retired, or, for some reason or another, the organisation which put

:11:29.:11:35.

in their implant take as rekals trant approach to this, then the

:11:35.:11:37.

NHS will step into the breach to help.

:11:37.:11:43.

Here is a confession, I am the shad he dough Defence Secretary and I

:11:43.:11:48.

accept -- Shadow Defence Secretary, and I accept �5 billion of defence

:11:48.:11:54.

cuts. He rejects shadow and temporary populisim, can we expect

:11:54.:11:58.

a long line of Labour front benchers to come out and support

:11:58.:12:03.

George Osborne's Plan A, in an attempt to try to I a chief what

:12:03.:12:06.

the Shadow Defence Secretary called genuine credibility. And there is

:12:06.:12:11.

no suggestion that Ed Milliband is in denial about the plans.

:12:11.:12:15.

In the first days of 2012, Labour has seemed a little bit like a ship

:12:15.:12:21.

without a destination. Its compass wonky, its crew, uppity.

:12:21.:12:25.

There seems to be no strategy, no narrative and little energy. Old

:12:26.:12:30.

faces from the Brown era seem stuck in defending Labour's record in all

:12:30.:12:34.

the wrong ways. We didn't spend too much money, we will cut less fast

:12:34.:12:43.

and less far, but we can't tell you how. Thus spaik Lord Glasman, Ed

:12:43.:12:47.

Milliband's hand-picked shipmate. Cue an outbreak of dismay in the

:12:47.:12:54.

Labour ranks. There is a sense drift, there is no clear direction

:12:54.:12:57.

set upon the party and we are 18 months into Ed Milliband's

:12:57.:13:01.

leadership. A lot of people like him, and think he's the right man

:13:01.:13:05.

with the right value, but they worry where he's going and taking

:13:05.:13:12.

the party, it is not clear.Ed one had shadow minister did try to

:13:12.:13:16.

make -- today one shadow minister did try to make things clear. He

:13:16.:13:20.

accepted the defence cuts in an attempt to gain, as he put it,

:13:20.:13:23.

genuine credibility. They started to map out the he detail of how

:13:23.:13:28.

Labour would go about restoring the UK and fiscal deficit to some sort

:13:28.:13:32.

of balance. And this is hard for Labour, because there are a lot

:13:32.:13:35.

things in there that challenge the Labour Party's core instincts. What

:13:35.:13:39.

they have done is start to get into the specifics, this is a different

:13:39.:13:43.

environment to one in which the opposition may have face in 2008.

:13:43.:13:47.

People want to hear are you credible in what you are going to

:13:47.:13:50.

do. Originally Ed Milliband wanted economic policy to be about the new,

:13:50.:13:54.

a new more caring kind of capitalism, and new things Labour

:13:54.:13:58.

could deliver to its voting base. What he did not want it to be about

:13:58.:14:08.
:14:08.:14:09.

was fistle Calpol sis. He didn't originally - fiscal policy, but it

:14:09.:14:14.

has become about fiscal policy. Ed Balls has two problems, he was

:14:14.:14:19.

closely associate with the fiscal policy that went wrong, and he's

:14:19.:14:23.

the strong advocate of a centre stand today. Centre ground.

:14:23.:14:27.

chart sums up the shifting terrain for Labour. This was Alistair

:14:27.:14:31.

Darling's deficit reduction plan, to more than half the deficit over

:14:31.:14:36.

four years. Not fast enough, said the coalition in June 2010, they

:14:37.:14:42.

would cut �40 billion more and get the deficit down to just 2% of GDP.

:14:42.:14:46.

Six weeks ago that plan was scrapped. The coalition's new

:14:46.:14:49.

borrowing targets are now higher than those Alistair Darling lost

:14:49.:14:54.

the election on. In every remaining year of the parliament. It should

:14:54.:14:59.

have been a propoganda coup for Labour, but it wasn't. I think the

:14:59.:15:02.

Labour message isn't getting through for two reasons, one, they

:15:02.:15:10.

are up against a press which is 80% right-wing, backing the Tory talk

:15:11.:15:13.

about cuts, which doesn't want it to hear about growth and invest

:15:13.:15:17.

anything the economy. Secondly, the Labour Party is not united, the

:15:17.:15:20.

leader hasn't come down strongly enough on the side of growth,

:15:20.:15:24.

investment and job creation over deficit reduction, cuts, cuts, cuts.

:15:24.:15:29.

That is the problem, it leaves Balls relatively isolate. That is

:15:29.:15:32.

byer Tsar, because Ed Balls has been vindicate by the facts and the

:15:33.:15:38.

data. Labour's five-point plan for recovery includes only one fiscal

:15:38.:15:45.

policy move, proposing a cut of VAT of �12 billion a year. That leaves

:15:45.:15:49.

Shadow Cabinet ministers having to write a fiscal policy in detail,

:15:49.:15:52.

department by department. If November left the coalition's

:15:52.:15:56.

deficit plan in ruins, it left Labour without one full stop,

:15:56.:16:00.

because Darling's old plan is history now. That leaves Ed Balls

:16:00.:16:03.

reliant on the single argument that austerity is hurting, but not

:16:03.:16:07.

working. And Labour's all too well aware that many people do not yet

:16:08.:16:12.

accept that argument. People are anxious, you see, when

:16:12.:16:15.

people are anxious they get scared. They cling to what seems most solid

:16:15.:16:19.

and stable. Whether it is right or not. It is debatable. Therefore,

:16:19.:16:23.

they have stuck with the coalition on economic policy, because they

:16:23.:16:27.

see that as the safest option, whether it is or not. Tonight the

:16:27.:16:31.

Labour leader, in an interview with the Guardian, warned his supporters

:16:32.:16:36.

that the era of tax and transfer social democracy was over. New

:16:36.:16:41.

schools, he said, new hospitals, tax credit, that is not going to be

:16:41.:16:45.

available to the next Labour Government. Labour's economic

:16:45.:16:51.

skpwrouorny, may, in truth, -- journey, may, in truth, have hardly

:16:51.:16:56.

started. I'm joined by Chris Leslie. The latest poll of polls, Labour is

:16:56.:17:02.

trailing the Tories, despite the economic crisis. A former adviser

:17:02.:17:05.

say you lack environment. The Shadow Defence Secretary is saying

:17:05.:17:09.

you can't sustain popularity without genuine credibility. Do you

:17:09.:17:13.

accept you have a credibility problem? Credibility ultimately

:17:13.:17:16.

depends on whether it will work or not. The credibility of the

:17:16.:17:20.

Government's economic plan will depend on whether it works or not.

:17:20.:17:25.

Let me just fin urb. I think he's talking about your credibility?

:17:25.:17:28.

important thing for bus credibility is whether we can demonstrate that

:17:28.:17:31.

-- for us about credibility is whether we can demonstrate a

:17:32.:17:35.

healthy economy. A healthy economy leads to healthy public finances.

:17:35.:17:38.

We have always acknowledged some cuts would beness radio. These are

:17:38.:17:42.

going to be very difficult choices -- would be necessary, these are

:17:42.:17:45.

going to be very difficult choices. We want a fair and balanced

:17:45.:17:50.

approach to the cuts that would be necessary. They are taking a very

:17:50.:17:54.

dogmatic approach, too far and too fast. You haven't actually got a

:17:54.:17:57.

credible plan, at the moment you have a situation where Ed Balls

:17:57.:18:01.

believes you have to spend your way out of of the recession, and yet

:18:01.:18:06.

you have certificate and series of ministers being told they have -- a

:18:06.:18:10.

series of ministers being told they have to line up and make a series

:18:10.:18:14.

of cuts. You don't really actually v you don't have a deficit

:18:14.:18:19.

reduction plan at all now? We do. What is it, is it still Alistair

:18:19.:18:23.

Darling's? If I can get a word in edgeway, depends on the strength of

:18:23.:18:27.

the economy. If you end up cutting so far in such a way that you strip

:18:27.:18:32.

away the economic growth that we have, that you end up piling more

:18:32.:18:35.

expenditure on welfare, unemployment benefit. What you will

:18:35.:18:40.

do is worsen the economy and the deficit. See borrowing going up. In

:18:40.:18:43.

terms of cred bltd, that, I think, will be the central -- credibility,

:18:43.:18:47.

that, I think will be the central debate over the coming years. We

:18:47.:18:51.

have a credible plan. Even before the election you talked p the

:18:51.:18:55.

Alistair Darling plan, we accept some cuts are necessary this

:18:55.:18:59.

Government can't even match the pace of the Alistair Darling plan.

:18:59.:19:04.

As your research showed. couldn't make any propoganda out of

:19:04.:19:08.

it either. You say, you have a deficit reduction plan, you have

:19:08.:19:12.

one, but of course it will depend what happens with the economy. What

:19:12.:19:16.

is the deficit reduction plan today, you don't have one, do you?

:19:16.:19:20.

Murphy has outlined the cuts we think would be acceptable. He

:19:20.:19:24.

talked about �5 billion in certain defence elements in the next five

:19:24.:19:29.

years. Policing is a good example. The Government want to cut 20%, the

:19:29.:19:33.

independent inspectorate say that would be very harmful. We have said

:19:33.:19:37.

12% of police cuts is a level of reduction that is would be

:19:37.:19:39.

sustainable, without hurting the frontline. There are differences

:19:39.:19:44.

between us and the Government. much, just give us a figure then, a

:19:44.:19:47.

straight forward figure, how much are you going to cut the deficit

:19:47.:19:51.

by? We have said, and I think it is important to acknowledge we want to

:19:51.:19:55.

cut the df sit, but not the pace the Government wanted -- deficit,

:19:55.:19:58.

but not the pace the Government want. Roughly half over the four-

:19:58.:20:01.

year period, that is the Alistair Darling plan. The problem is the

:20:01.:20:05.

economy and the Government finances are not static but dynamic. When we

:20:05.:20:08.

get to the next election we will have an opportunity to write a

:20:08.:20:12.

manifesto and set out more details. By then the credibility might be

:20:12.:20:16.

less than the poll of polls said today. As straight forward question,

:20:16.:20:20.

is the deficit plan to reduce the deficit by a half by the end of the

:20:20.:20:23.

parliament, what is it? That is the plan put before the public. There

:20:23.:20:28.

are and today? Bear in mind that the public, we were rejected from

:20:28.:20:31.

office, we lost the last general election, the public wanted to give

:20:31.:20:35.

the benefit of the doubt to the Government. The key thing about

:20:35.:20:38.

credibility, if they are not succeeding in delivering on the

:20:38.:20:41.

expectations and the promises they made, the Government's credibility

:20:41.:20:45.

will be shot to pieces. That is the alternative we have. That is the

:20:45.:20:50.

challenge we have. If we can prove that actually building the economy

:20:50.:20:55.

rather than stripping it out and cutting it into shreds will be

:20:55.:20:58.

harmful, we have an opportunity to do that. Tomorrow morning's

:20:58.:21:04.

Guardian, Ed Milliband talks p about the Tony Crossland era being

:21:04.:21:08.

over, the proceeds of tax and growth going on schools and

:21:08.:21:12.

hospitals and tax credits is gone. It will not be there. It will never

:21:12.:21:19.

happen again. What is the point haeb? We are always going to --

:21:19.:21:25.

Labour? We will always believe in improving public services. There is

:21:25.:21:29.

no option to do this any more? difference is this, we believe in

:21:29.:21:32.

investing in public service, but in a fair and balance way. We will

:21:32.:21:36.

have to make some tough choice, but this is a Government not thinking

:21:36.:21:40.

through properly, the implication for the economy for public services

:21:40.:21:43.

of the cuts agenda they are pursuing. Not just too far and too

:21:43.:21:46.

fast, but failing to tackle the very deficit that theyp promised

:21:46.:21:51.

they would sort out. In a cop of words, how would you characterise

:21:51.:21:56.

the first week -- in a couple of words, how would you characterise

:21:56.:22:01.

the first week for Ed Milliband? The media will characterise it in a

:22:01.:22:04.

different way, he has shown strong leadership on Rupert Murdoch.

:22:04.:22:09.

was last year? On rewriting the rules of capitalism, he has a

:22:09.:22:13.

strong agenda, and this is a crucial year for us. The prevailing

:22:13.:22:18.

orthodoxy in real life and in the movies is that bankers are bad,

:22:18.:22:22.

sometimes mad, and definitely dangerous. But a new film paipbts a

:22:22.:22:28.

more complex picture of Wall Street in 2008, when the caefpl hit like a

:22:28.:22:34.

freight train. Now some of the best actors in town, Stanley Tucci,

:22:34.:22:38.

Jeremy Irons and Demi Moore, have waved their usual fees to appear in

:22:38.:22:42.

Margin Call. A low of-budget film about an investment bank in the

:22:43.:22:48.

middle of huge lay of-offs and discovers huge discrepencies on the

:22:48.:22:51.

books. JS Chandor, the son of an investment banker wrote and

:22:51.:22:55.

directeded the film, I spoke him earlier todayment I should warn you

:22:55.:22:59.

there is some strong language that follows. Hello. I need you guys to

:22:59.:23:03.

come back up here. Just trust me, I need you guys back here, now.

:23:03.:23:09.

a minute, what am I looking at. This figure here? Is that figure

:23:09.:23:17.

right. So, what you are telling me is, that the music is about to stop,

:23:17.:23:25.

and we are going to be left holding the biggest bag of oderous

:23:25.:23:29.

excrement ever assembled in the history of capitalism. You don't

:23:29.:23:32.

moralise about the people who are there, do you, you kind of let them

:23:32.:23:37.

tell their own story? In the US the films come out a month or two ago,

:23:37.:23:43.

in the US on the left people have been a little upset that I wasn't

:23:43.:23:48.

quite citle kal enough, that -- critical enough, that I wasn't

:23:48.:23:52.

demonising these people. I think their actions speak for themselves,

:23:52.:23:59.

I didn't want charicatures of these people, I wanted to actually try to

:23:59.:24:02.

look at the decision making process. One of the most affecting scenes is

:24:02.:24:07.

the opening scene,s almost like a zombie movey, people are getting up

:24:07.:24:12.

are from desks, putting their boxes down, going to the lift, evacuating

:24:12.:24:17.

the buildings. A friend of mine who works in the city, called me from a

:24:17.:24:21.

Citibank trading floor. He said get down here, you should see what is

:24:21.:24:26.

about top happen. A team had HR, human resources people, came in and

:24:26.:24:33.

set up camp in every room, and your phone would ring. I am obviously

:24:33.:24:38.

sorry that we are here today, but these are extraordinary times, as

:24:38.:24:43.

you very well must know. Look I run risk management, I don'tle really

:24:43.:24:47.

see how that is a natural place to start cutting jobs. We understand

:24:47.:24:57.

this is in no way personal, the majority of this floor is going

:24:57.:25:00.

today. The hiring and firing situation may shed more light on

:25:00.:25:04.

how we got to where we were than the technicalties of what the

:25:04.:25:12.

trading was going on. Studying the way friction ratios underlines use

:25:12.:25:18.

under reduces gravity loads. So you are a rocket scientist. I was.

:25:18.:25:23.

Interesting. How did you end up here? It is all just numbers,

:25:23.:25:27.

changing what you are adding up, and to speak freely, the m money

:25:28.:25:33.

here is more attractive. There certainly is a disconnect between

:25:33.:25:38.

this new generation of brilliant qants, the mostcateded people on

:25:38.:25:44.

the plan the. And you know, a fundamental guy who came up through,

:25:44.:25:50.

most educated people on the planet, and who a fundamental Kay who came

:25:50.:25:56.

up there you the ranks. Of the two banks one or two went under, and

:25:56.:26:00.

the issue was the CEO not comprehending what is going on.

:26:00.:26:05.

Speak as you like to a young child or golden retrieve, it wasn't

:26:05.:26:11.

brains that got me here, I can assure you of that. In visiting the

:26:11.:26:16.

floors, you ran into MIT rocket scientists. And I think one of the

:26:16.:26:22.

things, the film, although it is structured as a thriller, and

:26:22.:26:27.

hopefully keeps the audiences on the edge their seat. At its core it

:26:27.:26:32.

is also a tragedy. Because it is really lost potential, making money

:26:32.:26:40.

from money, instead of making money from making things. Is that the

:26:40.:26:45.

best use for our best and brightest. I know my answer for that.

:26:45.:26:48.

Ironically you are a product of the boom years in investment banking,

:26:48.:26:52.

your father worked for Merrill Lynch for more than 30 years. That

:26:52.:26:55.

was a big influence on you? father was not a trader like the

:26:55.:26:59.

characters in the film. Mid-level banker for many years. We also

:26:59.:27:05.

lived in communities of bankers. So how that influenceded me was that I

:27:05.:27:10.

learned what these people cared about. Presumably you don't think

:27:10.:27:16.

youred dad was a bad guy? Sometimes! I'm kidding. He is

:27:16.:27:20.

certainly not out to save the world, so he made selfish choices to take

:27:20.:27:26.

care of had his family n way. Anyone that goes into that -- In a

:27:26.:27:30.

way. Anyone going into that industry make as choice when they

:27:30.:27:34.

enter it. They are making choices a teacher is not. My father is not an

:27:34.:27:39.

evil or a charicature, he is a person who went to work every day,

:27:39.:27:43.

and you know, at times was investing money for a teachers'

:27:43.:27:48.

union, so he felt that banking could serve a purpose.

:27:48.:27:57.

I just don't know how we locked this up quite so much. When did you

:27:57.:28:01.

start feeling so sorry for yourself, it is unbearable. What, so you

:28:01.:28:04.

think we might have put a few people out of business today, it is

:28:04.:28:09.

all for nougt, but you have been doing that every day for almost 40

:28:09.:28:14.

years, Sam. If this is all for nougt, then so is everything out

:28:14.:28:23.

there. It is just money, it is made up. Pieces of paper with pictures

:28:23.:28:28.

on it so we don't have to kill each other just to get something to eat.

:28:28.:28:32.

It is not wrong. It is certainly no different today than it has ever

:28:32.:28:35.

been. It seems to me that you are saying this will happen again, we

:28:35.:28:39.

will go there again, is the film a warning? I guess the answer would

:28:39.:28:46.

be, being left to their own devices, of course this will happen again.

:28:46.:28:52.

So the point is to expect Jeremy Irons character to make massive

:28:52.:28:57.

changes of his own way doing business is a fool's errand. We

:28:57.:29:05.

need toen gauge, and the banking sis -- to engage, and the banking

:29:05.:29:10.

system is there for us, not the system is there for us, not the

:29:10.:29:16.

other way around. The papers now. Alert over dangers of cosmetic

:29:16.:29:26.
:29:26.:29:35.

That's all from Newsnight tonight. Bob Holness died today at the age

:29:35.:29:45.

of 83. He will be remembered as the presenter of BlockBusters, the

:29:45.:29:51.

children's programme. A P please, bob. Yes, if that's how you feel.

:29:51.:29:55.

A new contestant to play the game. Join us, we look forward to your

:29:55.:29:58.

company. Goodbye.

:29:58.:30:08.
:30:08.:30:09.

Here is the host of BlockBusters, Bob Holness.

:30:09.:30:13.

Hello there. If p you have been affect by the recent storms. You

:30:13.:30:17.

will be pleased to know this week's weather will be run of the mill.

:30:17.:30:20.

Bright and breezy sums it up for much of the UK on Saturday. A few

:30:20.:30:24.

showers, but they will be fleeting, and they won't amount to much. Some

:30:24.:30:28.

getting into parts of north-east England in the Pennines. Many

:30:28.:30:33.

places will stay dry and avoid the showersen tierl. A lot sunshine

:30:33.:30:37.

across -- showers entire, a lot of sunshine across East Anglia, a bit

:30:37.:30:42.

of a broz, a layer or two if you are -- a breeze, a layer or two if

:30:42.:30:49.

you are out and about. Across Devon and Cornwall the odd scud of rain.

:30:49.:30:52.

Showers possible. Dry, bright and breezy afternoon in the offing.

:30:52.:30:55.

That is the case for Northern Ireland. A bit more cloud in the

:30:55.:30:59.

west, and for Scotland as well. That cloud will be thicker and

:30:59.:31:03.

producing sharp showers across the northern half Scotland. Dryer and

:31:03.:31:06.

brighter further south and east. That is the picture as we end the

:31:06.:31:11.

day. It stays dry into nightimement increasingly cloudy from the west.

:31:11.:31:14.

An unsettled scene across northern and western parts of Europe.

:31:14.:31:19.

Western fronts will bring further outbreaks of rain. A God dop lol,

:31:19.:31:25.

recently. Further south into the Mediterranean, showers across the

:31:25.:31:29.

Kirsty Wark asks the NHS medical director why he won't recommend the removal of contaminated breast implants.

Has Labour u-turned on cuts?

And the Wall Street movie Margin Call.


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