Browse content similar to 31/01/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Yesterday the new boss of Royal Bank of Scotland fell on his sword | :00:08. | :00:12. | |
and refused his bonus, tonight his predecessor, the man who broke the | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
bank, had his Knighthood removed. Services to banking indeed. But in | :00:17. | :00:24. | |
truth, is Fred Goodwin any worse than many another beneficiary of | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
Britain's quaint honours' system. Are both he and Stephen Hester | :00:27. | :00:34. | |
victims of a new mood in the land, where the rich are loathed, and the | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
mob reaches for pitch forks. Russia says President Assad must be | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
allowed to try to assert his authority in Syria, because without | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
him, there will be civil war, could they be right? | :00:45. | :00:52. | |
Syria has always had a very diverse society, where religious and ethnic | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
minorities have felt comparatively safe, now many members of those | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
minorities are worried about what will happen to them if the regime | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
falls. Thousands of skills learned in | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
schools will no longer be counted as GCSEs, why this bias against | :01:07. | :01:16. | |
learning something useful. How can Facebook be worth tens of, | :01:16. | :01:24. | |
perhaps $100 billion. What exactly is for sale? | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
So farewell then Sir Fred Goodwin, it is not as if there will be many | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
people mourning the fact that the man who wrecked a bank and did so | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
much to bankrupt the country, has been striped of his Knighthood. The | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
hardly heard of honours forfeiture committee, came to an a decision | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
and shifted him into a much more exclusive group of people, Robert | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
Mugabe, Nicolae Ceausescu and Mussolini, to name but three, who | :01:49. | :01:54. | |
have had their knighthoods removed. Is being popular the same as being | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
right? He's probably always been plain old | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
Fred to his family, now he's plain old Fred to everyone else again too. | :02:04. | :02:08. | |
Those three little letters, and long been a cause of anger for the | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
public, and the politicians. We have a special case here of the | :02:13. | :02:20. | |
Royal Bank of Scotland symbolising everything that went wrong in the | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
British economy over the last decade. It is appropriate that Fred | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
Goodwin loses his Knighthood. The focus of the current Government is | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
to make sure we get back all the tax-payers' money that was put into | :02:32. | :02:42. | |
:02:42. | :03:01. | ||
the RBS to save it. A statement The decision to give Fred Goodwin | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
his Knighthood in the first place was a source of some embarrassment | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
for Labour, the party even tried to spin the reasons they had given it | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
to him. I think that Sir Fred was nominated for a Knighthood, because | :03:14. | :03:22. | |
of his services for the Prince's Trust, I understand that it was not | :03:23. | :03:28. | |
in recognition of his services to banking. | :03:28. | :03:35. | |
That was not true. Fred Goodwin was knighted in June 2004 in the | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
Queen's birthday Honours List, for services to banking. No-one now, of | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
course, will own up to coming up with the idea, but it was | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
reportedly on the advice of Gordon Brown himself. And came just months | :03:46. | :03:53. | |
after Sir Fred led RBS to record annual profits of �6.2 billion. | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
Most people will welcome the fact that Sir Fred Goodwin lost his | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
Knighthood, isn't it embarrassing for you, as your side gave it to | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
him? It is right Fred Goodwin lost his Knighthood, but it is only the | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
start of what needs to happen in boardrooms, we need to change the | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
bonus culture and have responsibility across the board. | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
That is what the public want, and it is what Government, working with | :04:16. | :04:23. | |
the private sector, needs to deliver. Fred Goodwin sank RBS in | :04:23. | :04:33. | |
:04:33. | :04:33. | ||
2007, with his disastrous takeover of the bank ABM, he played a | :04:34. | :04:40. | |
disastrous price where assets were worth less, less than a year later | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
they were begging for a bailout. The complete collapse of the entire | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
banking system could have occurred. Fred is a man of incredible | :04:49. | :04:55. | |
arrogance, who totally believes in his own power, merit and ambition. | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
He's somebody that put the fear of God into everybody around him, | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
somebody that would never be stopped in any ambition that he | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
pursued, and that, of course, was part of his success when he was | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
successful, and his total and utter collapse when he failed at the end | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
of his career. Is there something rather unsavoury in this rush to | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
de-gong Mr Goodwin on the left, he was a welcome visitor once. The | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
politicians only too happy to bask in the wealth and taxes they | :05:23. | :05:31. | |
thought he was bringing. The ABM Amro deal was waved through by all | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
the authorities. The Scottish First Minister, Alex Salmond, wrote to Mr | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
Goodwin, signing the letter, "your's for Scotland", saying he | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
would do anything to help the deal through. I don't turn my back on | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
friends, and Fred is a friend. The Financial Services Authority did | :05:47. | :05:53. | |
not object to the Amro deal being done. The then Prime Minister, | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
Gordon Brown, supported the deal. The Bank of England did not object | :05:57. | :06:03. | |
to the Amro deal going through. And the Treasury, that's Her Majesty's | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
Government did not object to the deal going through. Are they all | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
going to lose their honours and their positions of power? I just do | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
not see that this precedent is a good one to have made. Some | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
suggestion, then, this Knighthood is a proxy for the �700,000 pension | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
that Fred Goodwin refused to relinquish. His eventual decision | :06:25. | :06:33. | |
to hand back half of it did nothing to as sage public anger. Now, -- | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
assuage public anger. Now there is one title he would like to be | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
striped of, but would probably have to his grave. | :06:41. | :06:48. | |
With us now to discuss this are the journalist Toby Young, and Will | :06:48. | :06:55. | |
Hutton. Toby Young, what does this decision tell us? It tells us that | :06:55. | :07:03. | |
the Government are willing to sacrifice someone like this in | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
order to secure short-term political gain. It looks as though | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
the tentacles of Number Ten have extended into the Forfeiture | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
Committee. Let there's just no question that he's being | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
scapegoated. Why him and why not the chairman, as the report stated, | :07:21. | :07:23. | |
the chairman of the Financial Services Authority who nodded | :07:23. | :07:30. | |
through the AMro deal, why him and not the chairman of RBS, both of | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
whom have Knighthoods. It is freighted with hypocrisy? I don't | :07:35. | :07:42. | |
think so, it has come late. He was endorsed by every single politician | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
in this country? Honours matter, and I think it is enormously | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
symbolic. I think that people at the top of banking and business | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
generally care about being honoured. And actually, it sends an | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
extraordinary signal. Four years after the event? It would have been | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
better, obviously, for it to have happened earlier, but to happen now | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
and not at all. How long will honours continue to matter if they | :08:09. | :08:15. | |
are politic sized to this extent? - - politicised to this extent? | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
Sometimes honours are given for political reasons, the honours | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
system has always been partly politicised. But this is overt. The | :08:24. | :08:30. | |
forfeiture committee is supposed to consider only those who have, to | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
strip people of their honours, if they have been convicted of a | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
criminal offence, or censureed by a regulatory or professional body. | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
Neither of those things have happened in this case. It is | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
blatantly political. It has cost the country �45 billion? We are | :08:48. | :08:55. | |
living through a once in 80 year event. The scale of which is only | :08:55. | :09:03. | |
becoming obvious to everybody. It is going to take years more more | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
balance sheets to return to normal in banks, and debt levels to return | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
to normal. Years of austerity. This bank would have been bust without | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
�45.5 billion of tax-payers' money going into it. It is in profound | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
trouble. What you are doing with this, and what happened with | :09:20. | :09:26. | |
Stephen Hester's bonus and not accepting T it is a landmark moment. | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
Within 48 hours the country, civil society, the business community, | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
and actually the Forfeiture Committee, are all signalling that | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
the parallel universe in which banking has lived, over the last | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
three years, since 2008, has to come to answered. You can argue it | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
should happen earlier, but thank God it has happened. He wasn't the | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
only chief executive of a bank to make a reckless decision, and to be | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
in some way responsible for the credit crunch. The reason we | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
gambled and were as reckless as they were, is because they needed | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
to be in order to compete. The reason they were able to do that, | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
the reason they were in this framework in which gambling and | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
recklessness was acceptable is the failure of financial regulation. | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
course you can't have capitalism without risk. As a matter of fact, | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
HSBC got through this without Government assistance, although all | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
the banks needed, in the end, part of that enormous cheque that was | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
written, that is true. But the epicentre of this was Edinburgh. | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
The epicentre of what was happening in Edinburgh was the Royal Bank of | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
Scotland. That is why Scottish politicians like Gordon Brown and | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
Alex Salmond, were so keen to advance the case of RBS, and to | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
honour the guy who ran it. When the whole thing went pear-shaped, and | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
it has brought the British economy down, you go for the epicentre. | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
There were other people at the crime, I admit that. Doesn't it | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
stink of hypocrisy, for Ed Milliband, the leader of the Labour | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
Party, to be celebrating the fact that this guy is publicly | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
humiliated, when it was the lack of public regulation that led to these | :11:05. | :11:10. | |
mistakes being made, which the last Government were responsible for? | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
Gordon Brown and the Labour Government, and the light-touch | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
regulation, and by the way, at the time, there weren't very many | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
critics on the right about that. also reflects a change in the | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
public mood, that is the other interesting thing. When you think | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
back to previous times, when you think of the era of the movie Wall | :11:27. | :11:34. | |
Street, for example, when there was a -- an awe at the way capitalism | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
operated at that sort of level, now there is loathing? That is true, | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
people think, rightly, that reward should be related to contribution. | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
Actually, you know, David Cameron has said it, Ed Milliband has said | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
it, and Nick Clegg has said it. used to think that? That was not | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
said in the years since 2008. It is now said. This is part of the story. | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
What is curious about it is, you would have expected the public mood | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
to change in response to the credit crunch. The current financial | :12:05. | :12:11. | |
crisis, while partly blowback from the credit crunch, is also caused | :12:11. | :12:17. | |
by the financial profligacy of various states, particularly states | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
within the eurozone. If anything, you would have thought that the | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
eurozone crisis would have brought about a shift to the right rather | :12:24. | :12:29. | |
than the left. It was the banking crisis, which politically seemed to | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
mean that various centre left Governments were kicked out to be | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
replaceed by centre right Governments. Now we have another | :12:36. | :12:44. | |
crisis with the opposite effect. There is a desire to inspire moral | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
capitalism, and it is welcomed. President Assad of Syria has to go | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
for the sake of the people of his country. That's the burden of the | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
resolution that western and Arab states are trying to get agreed by | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
the UN Security Council. Mr Assad's friends in Moscow, though, are | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
expected to try to knock the thing on the head when it comes to a vote, | :13:04. | :13:09. | |
perhaps the day after tomorrow. Mark Urban has been watching | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
proceedings at the United Nations in New York, which are still going | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
on right now. So where are we at the UN? They are | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
talking away, debating this Moroccan sponsored resolution, they | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
have done this on behalf of the Arab League. It is a cut and paste | :13:24. | :13:29. | |
of something the Arab League agreed nine days ago. As you mentioned in | :13:29. | :13:35. | |
the introduction, the key provisions of which are regime | :13:35. | :13:41. | |
change. Asking President Assad to step aside for his deputy, and | :13:41. | :13:46. | |
talking about a transfer to a different system. This is the first | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
serious attempt to grip this in the UN Security Council, when the | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
threat of veto before was enough to stop it. Many think the same could | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
happen again now. The Russians are batting away for Assad, aren't | :13:57. | :14:03. | |
they? The key thing here, I think, is both Russia and China have a | :14:03. | :14:08. | |
sense of deja vu about this. The resolution in 1973, that came | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
through last March, to enable the Libyan intervention started in a | :14:13. | :14:19. | |
similar way, with the Arab League as the point men. They say it then | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
turned into, despite all the evenhanded language, humanitarian | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
language, a vehicle for western military intervention to top a lead | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
they are didn't like. They say it is all very similar. Speaking | :14:30. | :14:35. | |
before they came on air, Hillary Clinton tackled that head-on. | :14:35. | :14:41. | |
know that some members here may be concerned that the Security Council | :14:41. | :14:48. | |
could be headed towards another Libya. That is a false analogy. | :14:48. | :14:54. | |
Syria is a unique situation that requires its own approach, tailored | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
to the specific circumstances occurring there. That is exactly | :14:59. | :15:05. | |
what the Arab League has proposed. A path for a political transition | :15:05. | :15:14. | |
that would preserve Syria's unity and institutions. Of course Russia | :15:14. | :15:23. | |
doesn't want Syrian intervention but intervention, but they are | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
worried that this resolution would leave no-one in charge, and the | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
opposition forces would get involved in a serious struggle. The | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
debate will go on for days, potentially, it is not through the | :15:33. | :15:40. | |
resolution will go through. -- it is not clear if the | :15:40. | :15:47. | |
resolution will go through. If the regime fall it is will | :15:48. | :15:53. | |
trigger civil war is the concern. But increasingly it looks like it | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
will happen. Syria has some of the smallest minute religious | :15:58. | :16:06. | |
minorities in the world. Some claim their future would be perilous. | :16:06. | :16:13. | |
We have this report. In the language Jesus spoke, in the | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
country where St Paul saw the light, Syrian Christians celebrate their | :16:17. | :16:27. | |
:16:27. | :16:27. | ||
faith as they have for nearly two millennia. | :16:27. | :16:34. | |
The tightness of the aremaic liturgy, veils are a sudden sense | :16:34. | :16:41. | |
of danger. Among the worshippers, refugees from neighbouring Iraq. | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
Much of its ancient Christian minority has fled under Islamic | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
intolerance. Now, beyond the walls of this | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
monastery, a haven of calm on the road to Damascus, Syria too is | :16:55. | :17:00. | |
dissolving into civil strive. Syria's always had a very diverse | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
society, where religious and ethnic minorities have felt comparatively | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
safe. Now, many members of those minorities are worried about what | :17:08. | :17:15. | |
will happen to them if the regime falls. | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
In these uncertain times, in a country where Christians make up | :17:18. | :17:23. | |
nearly 10% of the population, the Archbishop of Damascus knows better | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
than to become a Government whose days may be numbered. But nor will | :17:27. | :17:32. | |
he back a revolution, morally encouraged by the west, whose | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
consequences could be perilous. hearing from the western countries | :17:37. | :17:45. | |
that they are pushing on revolution, and I'm hearing that some parties | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
are helping arm the group. This is not helping the stability, it is | :17:50. | :18:00. | |
not resolving any problems. In towns gripped by revolution, the | :18:00. | :18:08. | |
Islamic of a firmation of faith, "God is most great", is it, as | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
protestors say, just a traditional rallying call in a country which is | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
at least three quarters Sunni Muslims. The expression of | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
willingness to die for a cause, or is it, as the regime maintains, a | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
sign that Syria's secular system could be destroyed by religious | :18:25. | :18:31. | |
sectarianism. These are Government supporters, | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
chanting for Syrians to remain united. They are mainly Alawites, | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
members of a Shi'ite sect, that includes more than one in ten | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
Syrians. Downtrodden for centuries, Alawites have been more favoured | :18:44. | :18:50. | |
since the Assad family, also Alawites, came to power 40-odd | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
years ago. Most families probably have at least one member employed | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
by the security forces. In this district of the increasingly | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
segregated city of Homs, Syria's most fought over city, they | :19:01. | :19:07. | |
bitterly oppose the revolution that is raging just a few blocks away. | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
TRANSLATION: Our's is one of thousands of families who has had | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
to flee their homes. I used to live in a different area, now we all | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
have to move because of the armed gangs. | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
Government supporters often cite this anti-Alawite threat from a | :19:25. | :19:35. | |
popular rebel cleric, to try to prove the opposition's sectarianism. | :19:35. | :19:43. | |
"we won't hurt those Alawites who are neutral", he says, but adds, in | :19:43. | :19:48. | |
a line certainly not typical of the opposition, still talking about | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
Alawites, "those who fight against us, I swear by God almighty, we | :19:52. | :20:00. | |
will turn them into mincemeat, and feed them to the dogs." | :20:00. | :20:07. | |
You Fears of score d -- fears of score-settling are inevitably high | :20:07. | :20:13. | |
in places like this, in the hills above dam mass cushion where | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
Alawites were encouraged to settle, by Bashar al-Assad's father, | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
perhaps to control the less reliable Sunnis living below. | :20:23. | :20:30. | |
Almost all of the regime's trusted servants are Alawites. Among them | :20:30. | :20:38. | |
this man, the owner of an advertising agency, decharged with | :20:38. | :20:44. | |
designing a new logo for the leading party. He believes top-down | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
political reform is still possible and it is the best way to avoid the | :20:48. | :20:54. | |
sectarianism, which the regime says, are being stirred up by armed gangs. | :20:54. | :20:59. | |
TRANSLATION: I'm afraid of instability, of the armed gangs | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
that cause destruction, of the invasion of negative ideas into | :21:02. | :21:07. | |
society. I'm not afraid of sectarian attacks. I'm gambling on | :21:07. | :21:09. | |
the common sense of the Syrian people. They have a completely | :21:09. | :21:14. | |
different outlook to others in the region. All the sects here value | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
human life. They reject the violence you see in other places. | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
Our main enemy now is fear itself. We have to support the existing | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
system, because it is the foundation of our society. And | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
reforms that Government is proposing, will help us build a new | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
democracy. But some say it is the President | :21:34. | :21:39. | |
who is spreading the fear. I'm going it meet one of the Alawites, | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
who are active in the opposition, despite, what they say, are | :21:43. | :21:50. | |
Government scare tactics. TRANSLATION: In areas where I'm | :21:50. | :21:55. | |
from, people live in terror now, because of the propaganda about | :21:55. | :21:57. | |
hidden explosives and armed gangs. People believe those stories, the | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
people are being killed because they are Alawite, it is all lies. | :22:01. | :22:07. | |
But the regime knows how to play this game. The Alawites were a poor | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
sect, so many joined the army or police long ago. When the | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
President's father came to power, he convinced the Alawites that the | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
regime was protecting them. Now even people who don't like the | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
Government are afraid of the revolution, because they are frayed | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
of the Muslim Brotherhood, that they will force men to go to the | :22:26. | :22:32. | |
mosque, force women to wear hijab, and not let children go to school. | :22:32. | :22:37. | |
This young Christian opposition activist, also rejects the regime's | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
propaganda. She says the revolution isn't dividing people, it is | :22:41. | :22:48. | |
uniting them. We say we are from this area and they know we are | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
Christian, you can see how surprised and happy they are we are | :22:52. | :23:00. | |
with them and support them, that we are part of this revolution. That's | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
like we go in some houses that we will be the first Christian people | :23:04. | :23:11. | |
to enter this house, and they really welcome us in a very amazing | :23:12. | :23:20. | |
way. That gives the joy. So when the Government says these are | :23:20. | :23:28. | |
terrorists who are trying to stop and end the stability of Syria, | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
what do you think? This Government they are the one who is make this | :23:33. | :23:39. | |
division between people. When you go out and you shout you feel you | :23:39. | :23:46. | |
are free. In those moments, even if they are seconds, you feel you are | :23:46. | :23:54. | |
free. Nobody will go back home. Even if a lot of people get killed. | :23:54. | :24:00. | |
After decades of stability in Syria, wedged between war torn Lebanon and | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
Iraq. Who wouldn't be at least a little afraid of the future now. | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
The more the regime plays on those fears, and the longer the violence | :24:07. | :24:13. | |
goes on, the greater the risk that those warnings of civil war will | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
eventually become self-fulfiling provecy. | :24:16. | :24:22. | |
You think you or your children got a GCSE or two, they didn't, | :24:22. | :24:28. | |
necessarily, many vocational courses, subgts like nail | :24:28. | :24:36. | |
technology or fish husbandry, will no longer be counted. The education | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
department claims that every child with a good or disadvantaged | :24:40. | :24:49. | |
background leaves school with a good GCSE pass in English and maths. | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
These students are getting experience outside the formal | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
classroom. The qualifications they build up here will be equivalent to | :24:57. | :25:05. | |
up to four GCSEs. It helps the school in the league | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
tables. As far as these 14-year- olds are concerned, it will help | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
them to earn a living. With brick laying you can go get an | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
apprenticeship, or you can go do other things like you can do it at | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
college, or whatever. You get a good skill out of it. You are also | :25:22. | :25:27. | |
getting the four GCSEs, which is kind of important. They are not | :25:27. | :25:32. | |
happy that in future this course, whether at certificate or the | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
higher diploma level, will count as just one GCSE. I think it is a load | :25:37. | :25:45. | |
of rubbish, really. With the GCSEs you are doing more work, you are | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
getting a better qualification for it, if you are doing one you are | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
doing class work, not practical, like this. Building your wall, | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
taking an engine to pieces, that is the bit that buys them into their | :25:56. | :26:01. | |
education. That makes them enjoy coming to school. It buys them into | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
their English and maths. The principle of vocational | :26:06. | :26:13. | |
training is not in doubt. But the value of some of the courses is. | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
Horse care and nail technology are all well and good if you want to | :26:17. | :26:22. | |
qualify as a Barbie doll, but should they give a school a leg up | :26:22. | :26:29. | |
in the league stables. At the moment there are 3,175 | :26:29. | :26:35. | |
equivalent courses. In future, just 125 of them will count towards | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
GCSEs. Among those erased by the Government, a nail technology skill, | :26:40. | :26:46. | |
worth two GCSEs, practical office skills, another two, and fish | :26:46. | :26:55. | |
husbandry, again, worth two GCSEs. The vocational courses of offered | :26:55. | :27:02. | |
at Feltham are seen as vital in an area of en trenched unemployment. | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
Students studying childcare spend at least day a week out on direct | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
work experience. The school will continue to prioritise the | :27:09. | :27:15. | |
practical element, but that means less time for academic GCSEs, and a | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
hit in the league tables. vocational courses to get the | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
practical issues take a lot of time. We may be judged as failing in that | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
we have some section, about 20% of our population, will not look like | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
they are taking a full range of eight GCSEs. | :27:33. | :27:40. | |
While these Feltham pupils tended to their vocational courses, the | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
Education Secretary defended the changes. Mr Gove, again, lambasted | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
some critics of academy schools, which he insisted are raising | :27:49. | :27:54. | |
standards. We have had a reprice of the all the enemies of promise, who | :27:54. | :28:00. | |
fought against what Andrew Adonais and Tony Blair were trying to do | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
reconstituting themselves. It is a great pity the Labour Party hasn't | :28:04. | :28:10. | |
spoken against this campaign. Gof told MPs he was not undermining | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
vocational training. If you say to a student, that we the state are | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
going to value this qualification as an equivalent, the colleges to | :28:18. | :28:24. | |
which they apply subsequently and the employers say no, that child | :28:24. | :28:30. | |
will understandably feel betrayed and let down. Praised and pillaried, | :28:30. | :28:38. | |
as Mr Gove's favourite teacher, Catherine Sing h, is setting up a | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
new school, favoured on his principle that every child can | :28:43. | :28:50. | |
receive good GCSE passes. They need a qualification even to be a | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
hairdresser. Which children are they we say are not academic, it is | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
often children who come from states, poorer and more disadvantaged, we | :28:58. | :29:04. | |
expect less of them, we are not doing favours. Michael Gove says | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
the most useful courses, like this one, will count towards league | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
table. In a time of rising youth unemployment, the UK figure stands | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
at more than a million out of work. The Government is being accused of | :29:15. | :29:25. | |
making things worse. What should our children be taught, Stephen | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
Twigg and Graham Stuart are both huer. There are hundreds of | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
thousands of these courses being followed in schools. Is the | :29:33. | :29:40. | |
Government really saying children doing them are wasting their time? | :29:40. | :29:42. | |
They are saying there is a huge increase over the years, driven by | :29:42. | :29:48. | |
the league stable, and schools have gained a system, in some cases, | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
putting children...There hundreds of thousands of children | :29:51. | :29:54. | |
out there, and parents supporting them in doing that. Are you saying | :29:54. | :29:59. | |
they are wasting their time? What Alison Wolf who did a review of the | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
Vocational Qualifications for the Government, saying many of the | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
courses don't lead anywhere, and there needs to be a review. A lot | :30:06. | :30:12. | |
are wasting their time? Alison skaf Wolf, the expert said a lot of | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
cases didn't lead to education or a job and needed to be reviewed. They | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
were given too much value in the league stables. Your hands are | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
pretty dirty on all of this, in effect, you have encouraged | :30:23. | :30:28. | |
children to waste their time at school? It was right to have the | :30:28. | :30:33. | |
review, but I'm worried it will be the baby out with the bath water. | :30:33. | :30:41. | |
Some of the GCSEs have buy in from employers and universities. You | :30:41. | :30:49. | |
recognise You recognise some are not? Recreated the diplomas, the | :30:49. | :30:56. | |
equivalent of four or five GCSEs. Employers have said the engineering | :30:56. | :31:01. | |
dip plom ma is a great qualification. | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
That needs to change. That is not me saying that, that is some of the | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
top engineering employers saying that. | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
Why has there been such a conspicuous failure to engage with | :31:11. | :31:17. | |
this question of what children, who are not going to follow the GCSE, | :31:17. | :31:22. | |
A-level, university route, do with their time at school? One of the | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
problems is the measures we have in schools, and there is one | :31:26. | :31:32. | |
overwhelming one, that is five good GCSEs. Today my select committee | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
and are were challenging the secretary, the last Government and | :31:35. | :31:37. | |
this Government putting too much on that one measure, it drives | :31:37. | :31:44. | |
performance in schools. It means the poorest performing bottom 20% | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
in good schools, don't score there. It is important to have courses | :31:48. | :31:53. | |
where they can achieve and go along. Why have the metrics been set | :31:53. | :31:57. | |
wrongly? Successive Governments have failed to find a more balanced | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
scorecard. Why? We privilege certain forms of learnings, there | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
is a notion of the academic. This idea there is academic here and | :32:06. | :32:12. | |
vocational there is nonsense. English and mathematics are | :32:12. | :32:17. | |
academic subjects but hugely practical as well. There has been a | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
big debate over the years. This announcement today does the mistake, | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
to privilege certain sorts of learning over others That is why I | :32:27. | :32:32. | |
have said it is baby out with the bath water. You are imprecise where | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
the baby is? It is important to looks a Alison Wolf did, the report | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
is a rigorous piece of work, some changes make sense, not all of them. | :32:41. | :32:46. | |
You think it is right to chuck some out, why ones might be and which | :32:46. | :32:52. | |
not want? The bonus system we developed had four or five GCSEs, | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
instructed with lawyers and universities. It is not safe to | :32:56. | :33:03. | |
reduce them from four GCSEs to one. The figure of 15, how many would | :33:03. | :33:10. | |
you say? -- 125, how many would you say? I wouldn't say. It doesn't | :33:10. | :33:17. | |
mean they are invalid. 500, a 1,000? I wouldn't put a figure on | :33:17. | :33:24. | |
it, you have to look at all of them, some have the equivalent of four | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
GCSEs and they should maybe only have two. You don't know about it | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
all? I don't know because I have to look at each individual | :33:32. | :33:37. | |
qualification. I do know there are vigorous qualifications downgraded | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
today that should not be, that is wrong. What the Government is doing | :33:40. | :33:45. | |
is rushing into a decision on this. When they should be consulting far | :33:45. | :33:50. | |
more wide low, building a cross- party consensus, getting support | :33:50. | :33:58. | |
from employers. They have a cross- party consensus, you agree with | :33:58. | :34:04. | |
them? I don't agree with what they are doing with the dip plom mas. | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
is a technical skill for the Labour Party to point in two directions at | :34:08. | :34:14. | |
the same time. On the issue of the dip plom ma, I was on the committee | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
when Ed Balls was pushing it through in a hurry. It was the most | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
complicated than any body had seen, we asked him to slow down and get | :34:21. | :34:27. | |
it right. We have failed to get the right structure in place for | :34:28. | :34:30. | |
Vocational Qualifications, it is tremenduously important. The last | :34:30. | :34:35. | |
Government made a mess of it. There are only a few bits of the | :34:35. | :34:44. | |
qualification that are good, like the engineering. It is going to get | :34:44. | :34:51. | |
worse, many more children at school until the age of 18, for whom some | :34:51. | :34:57. | |
vocational qualification is the way to go. Why -- Why didn't you think | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
it through when you looked at the school leaving age? The diplomas | :35:02. | :35:09. | |
were not perfect, but some of them including engineering, they were | :35:09. | :35:15. | |
good rigorous qualifications looked at in schools. We should look at | :35:15. | :35:17. | |
some positives. We have the university technical colleges from | :35:17. | :35:23. | |
the age of 14, we have allson Wolf saying more children at 14 should | :35:23. | :35:33. | |
:35:33. | :35:33. | ||
go into FE colleges. We need action on that. This is an inishal stab at | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
reducing the number -- initial stab at reducing numbers. We can add to | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
the number but make sure we never again put children on courses that | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
don't lead anywhere, and does mean they are wasting their time. | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door | :35:50. | :35:56. | |
they used to say. The inventor of social network on the Internet, | :35:56. | :36:02. | |
they may pay you up to $100 billion. Facebook offers itself for sale | :36:02. | :36:08. | |
tomorrow, it claims to have 800 million users, not bad considering | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
it didn't exist until a year ago. We will discuss the business model | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
in a short time. First we look at how it can become to be worth so | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
much so fast. If you are on Facebook, this is how | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
Mark Zuckerberg wants you to tell your story from now on. The new | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
timeline laying out your history for your friends. Zuckerberg's own | :36:31. | :36:38. | |
Facebook life begins in 2004, when he starts Facebook in his bedroom. | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
Now he's going to float on the stock market, after years of | :36:42. | :36:50. | |
refusing to sell up to all sorts of suitors. The hardest one was when | :36:50. | :36:55. | |
Yahoo offered $1 billion. That was the first big offer, I knew nothing | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
about business or what a company might be worth. | :36:58. | :37:03. | |
Until now, it has been hard to know exactly what Facebook is worth. But | :37:03. | :37:11. | |
private stakes in the firm, were trading recently at a qalation of | :37:11. | :37:19. | |
�80 billion. There is talk of -- Wall Street is very excited. One | :37:19. | :37:25. | |
man who got overexcited in the last dotcom bubble is trying to stay | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
calm? There is pandemonium in the United States over the deal. It is | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
shre overdone, this is a very mature company. Everyone is excited | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
to see the numbers, but the hype is completely absurd, relative loo | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
what the likely event will be. Facebook's whole business is a bet | :37:41. | :37:48. | |
on us. The 800 million users flowing down its mighty river. | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
Someone once said you are not paying to be here, you are not the | :37:52. | :37:58. | |
customer, you are the products. Our likes and dislikes are a vital | :37:58. | :38:03. | |
currency for Facebook, advertisers could target us with personalised | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
messages. Are we worth as much as investors seem to think. | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
What's happening here? We are starting to build a new campaign | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
for job sites. We will build some perzone nas, looking for people | :38:15. | :38:22. | |
looking for a new job, effectively. At this digital marketing agency, | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
they are finding clients being attracted to the targeting that | :38:26. | :38:31. | |
Facebook can offer. If one wanted to target me, it would be a 43- | :38:31. | :38:37. | |
year-old, living in Kilburn, liking beer. They could target me | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
precisely and show me whatever ad they would like. It is interwoven | :38:42. | :38:49. | |
with the platform itself. Something like sponsored stories, advertising | :38:49. | :38:54. | |
off the back of a recommendation, I think they will get great results | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
if they keep this. Facebook's timeline will intercept with a | :38:58. | :39:05. | |
larger and more powerful one, Google, the company owns the | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
lucrative search advertising market, with Google Plus, it would like to | :39:09. | :39:16. | |
boss social advertising too. Can Facebook ever be as big a beast. | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
This is going to be large and successful business. That said, I'm | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
not convinced it will be as great a business as some people think. This | :39:24. | :39:31. | |
is still a social media business there have been lots of social | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
media businesses on-line and elsewhere. It turns out they are | :39:34. | :39:40. | |
just not that spectacular at advertising medium. Google found it | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
miraculous product where you go to the search engine and say I'm | :39:44. | :39:49. | |
looking for a particular product, you get an ad for it, it is a | :39:49. | :39:54. | |
perfect advertising vehicle. If I'm a betting man, and I am, I would | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
bet on Google, fantastic business that works well. Facebook is a good | :39:59. | :40:04. | |
eachway bet at the moment. Not a certainty. The early signs are | :40:04. | :40:09. | |
encouraging. What do go wrong in terms of -- what could go wrong in | :40:09. | :40:15. | |
terms of Facebook? It is whether advertisers could get a good turn | :40:15. | :40:21. | |
on a scale big enough to support the evaluation. That is the big | :40:21. | :40:24. | |
risk. Whatever price a company gets for | :40:24. | :40:28. | |
its shares, Mark Zuckerberg's next step along his time again, will | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
confirm him as the world's richest 27-year-old, then comes the hard | :40:32. | :40:37. | |
bit, keeping Facebook users happy, while targeting with ever more | :40:37. | :40:45. | |
advertising. Can it possibly be worth up to $100 billion. The Brent | :40:45. | :40:47. | |
Hoberman, and Aleks Krotoski are here. | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
What is for sale here is effectively us, anyone who has ever | :40:52. | :40:59. | |
put anything on Facebook, isn't it? It is absolutely, 850 million users, | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
it is the lock in Facebook will have on the users. If I have | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
invested the time to pull my friends in there, it is hard to | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
switch over. What Facebook can do is influence my behaviour. | :41:11. | :41:17. | |
Does that appeal to you? I find it quite frightening. What Facebook | :41:17. | :41:24. | |
and things like Google do, is they help us make sense of the vast | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
information on-line. Google says a model if everybody says this is | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
good manufactures then it is relevant and value for me. What | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
Facebook does, slightly different, and is seemingly more value is it | :41:35. | :41:40. | |
says, if all of my friends think that this is valuable, then it is | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
valuable and relevant to me. That is what it is that they trade on. | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
Which is why they want more and more of our information. | :41:48. | :41:56. | |
It turns, does it not, Facebook's customer, from a user of an | :41:56. | :42:03. | |
apparent service into Koon sumeer - - consumer and target for | :42:03. | :42:08. | |
advertiser. Yes, and also an Evangelist, if you like a product | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
and you become an Evangelist, and the message is sent to your friends, | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
it is incredibly powerful marketing. The data you give and the ability | :42:17. | :42:24. | |
for those to target that data is the holely grail of advertising. | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
provides an intentionality that advertisers haven't had. First of | :42:29. | :42:34. | |
all, you have the content is in exactly the right place for the | :42:34. | :42:39. | |
right eyeballs to see T because of the all of the things we put on- | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
line, whether it is photographs of our kids, or whatever, put in front | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
of the Taj Mahal. We are saying to the technology, this is what we are | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
interested in, this is the kind of thing we want. What we're going to | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
do, this is what we're going to buy. That is phenomenally valuable. That | :42:55. | :43:01. | |
truly is the innovation. A lot of people will see this as rather | :43:01. | :43:07. | |
sinister? Oh yes. People do it willingly? I don't think that they | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
necessarily go through the fine print of 35 pages of terms and | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
conditions and say they will accept. Most people are haep happy to say | :43:14. | :43:19. | |
it is a free service, it is changing the way I'm communicating | :43:19. | :43:26. | |
with friends. I don't mind giving out the information. There was one | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
a survey, how much would you have to offer to teenagers to give way | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
their on-line information about their lives, the answer was �10. | :43:36. | :43:43. | |
What does that tell us about teenagers today. What it does is it | :43:43. | :43:50. | |
turns us from users into victims n a way. Or evangelist is the | :43:50. | :43:56. | |
positive way of looking at it. is more that we become commodities, | :43:57. | :44:03. | |
this is the realisation of a process that has been on going for | :44:03. | :44:08. | |
a time. This is the most effective and streamlined way the advertising | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
model. Let's look at the way investors will look at it. There is | :44:12. | :44:17. | |
Facebooks out there, shortly, there is Google out there, is there room | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
for the two of them? As I said before, they approached the same | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
problem in two different ways. What is interesting is how they are | :44:24. | :44:29. | |
trying to interact. There is this kind of dance they are doing | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
together. Google has its social networking service, Google Plus, | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
trying to do what Facebook has done, it is trying to fill the holes and | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
put a plaster on some of the problems that people have. Users | :44:41. | :44:48. | |
have with Facebook. This idea when you put something out there 2 goes | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
to all your friends, despite them being friends, work mates or family. | :44:52. | :45:00. | |
Google is trying to do this social searching. But it isth also | :45:00. | :45:08. | |
provides n some ways, an enpsyche immediateic approach -- | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
encyclopaedic approach. Google is more like you are looking for | :45:12. | :45:19. | |
something and it provides a way. is good Facebook has come up here | :45:19. | :45:25. | |
and given a challenge to Google. Facebook says its content is not | :45:26. | :45:34. | |
searchable on their sites. I don't think the use will be the amount of | :45:34. | :45:40. | |
time people are putting into Facebook. Would you invest in it? | :45:40. | :45:50. | |
:45:50. | :45:54. | ||
did get caught in last minute dot comb -- lastminute.com, I lost many | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
money there. They have product geniuss knowing what their | :45:57. | :46:02. | |
customers want and love. They may well be able to grow into the | :46:02. | :46:08. | |
valuation. If it is $100 million do they merit it today, neither did | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
Google when it went public, and people did well who invested in | :46:11. | :46:18. | |
that. Assuming you had the money, would you invest in it? What would | :46:18. | :46:23. | |
I do with that kind of money. There is the unique selling point, it is | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
the lock-in, that Brent reference before. This idea that it has this | :46:28. | :46:31. | |
way of attracting people and keeping people in because your | :46:32. | :46:35. | |
friends are there. The other thing is I don't think they have started | :46:35. | :46:41. | |
yet on how well they can monitor it. The public will make them do that a | :46:41. | :46:47. | |
lot more. Thank you very much, the daily -- | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
Daily Express has unearthed an American medal report. Otherwise | :46:51. | :46:59. | |
they are all going with Fred Goodwin, the Mail, the FT, Andy's | :46:59. | :47:06. | |
on the front page of the Telegraph. That's it for tonight. We will be | :47:06. | :47:16. | |
:47:16. | :47:39. | ||
That's it for tonight. We will be Payback time weather wise, after a | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
mild winter. Much colder this week, colder through the next few days. | :47:43. | :47:48. | |
By day and night. Cold and frosty start to the day. Lots of sunshine | :47:48. | :47:53. | |
out there, blight, crisping and sunny, very cold, particularly in | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
the south. A risk easterly wind developing. Significant wind shield | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
here. Lots and lots of sunshine. If you get well wrapped up in the | :48:02. | :48:07. | |
sunshine it will feel lovely. In the breeze cold. Any flurries | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
across Devon and Cornwall will fade away. Increasing amounts of | :48:10. | :48:15. | |
sunshine as we end the day. For Wales a beautiful day. Beautiful | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
but cold. Further north across the country, the winds are lighter, of | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
some benefit, cloud dripping on the east coast in Northern Ireland. For | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
Scotland too, sunny across many parts, but a bit more cloud | :48:28. | :48:34. | |
developing. I think I could just see the odd flurry of snow, but | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
basically dry. Not much changing on Thursday, the risk of one or two | :48:38. | :48:43. | |
wint free showers on the east coast of Scotland and England. London | :48:43. | :48:48. | |
could catch a snow shower too. Generally most places are try, | :48:48. | :48:53. |