Browse content similar to 11/05/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, Rupert Murdoch's former top executive in Britain reveals | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
just how much she influenced Government ministers. | :00:15. | :00:19. | |
For one three-minute conversation at the beginning of dinner, I got | :00:19. | :00:29. | |
the opportunity to give our view. I don't see why that's inappropriate. | :00:29. | :00:39. | |
:00:39. | :00:42. | ||
Rebekah Brooks, chief executive of lobbied for the BSkyB bid. | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
The Culture Secretary sought guided advice on his position. | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
We will analyse the claims and the damage to the Government, with two | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
political commentators and a prominent media lawyer. | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
The drain in Spain, more protests, the latest twists in the eurozone | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
bail-out, and another black hole in banking finances. Paul Mason is | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
here. The Spanish Government is lending | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
the banks 30 billion euros, only one slight problem, that is the | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
money the banks have lent to the Government. The Rochdale grooming | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
convictions raise new questions about the crisis in care homes all | :01:16. | :01:26. | |
:01:26. | :01:27. | ||
across Britain. Good evening, one former News | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
Corporation executive calls it, Leveson Syndrome, the inability of | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
otherwise apparently healthy people to remember the details of rather | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
important events, when questioned at the Leveson Inquiry. Today the | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
star witness was Rebekah Brooks, who certainly did remember close | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
contact with the people who run this country. Including the | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
affectionate tone of texts from David Cameron, and his | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
commiserations when she lost her job. The greatest heat was on the | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
Culture Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, whose career is already in the | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
balance. A newly revealed e-mail suggests he sought private advice | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
from News Corporation over phone hacking. | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
She's the ultimate newspaper red- top, for a decade the distinctive | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
Rebekah Brooks has been at the heart of Britain's tabloid press, | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
as an editor and executive with daily access to senior politicians. | :02:18. | :02:24. | |
But, as the inquiry reminded her, these are difficult days for this | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
once powerful woman. You are under police investigation in the contegs | :02:29. | :02:37. | |
of Operation Weet weet, -- on text of Operation Weeting, Operation | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
Elveden, and for also perverting the course of justice, is that | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
true? Yes. Even after Mr Brooks was arrested and she lost her job in | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
July 2011, the politicians still made contact, to send their | :02:50. | :02:58. | |
condolences. Number Ten, Number 11, Home Office, Foreign Office. One of | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
Mr Cameron's messages, sent through an intermediary, went along the | :03:02. | :03:09. | |
lines of "keep your head up". you also receive a message from him | :03:09. | :03:15. | |
via an intermediary along these loings, "sorry I could not be as | :03:15. | :03:21. | |
loyal to you as I could be, but Mr Miliband had my on the run", or | :03:21. | :03:27. | |
words to that effect. Similar, but indirectly. Sadly, Rebekah Brooks | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
told the inquiry, that none of the numerous text conversations with | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
David Cameron had survived. They definitely weren't more than a | :03:34. | :03:40. | |
couple of weeks, definitely not the dozen a day of certain reports. One | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
thing we could say, is they were pretty chumy in tone. Her Majesty's | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
Prime Minister and first Lord of the Treasury, apparently signs his | :03:48. | :03:58. | |
messages, LOL DC. Occasionally he would sign them off, LOL "lots of | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
love", until I told him it meant "laugh out loud", then he didn't | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
sign them like that at all. In the main, DC, I would have thought. | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
There was, we heard, substance to this relationship, David Cameron | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
called Rebekah Brooks, she said, to discuss phone hacking. He wanted an | :04:15. | :04:21. | |
update. They also discussed the BSkyB bid, though not at any length. | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
Mrs Brooks said she had a longer discussion during a dinner with the | :04:25. | :04:30. | |
Chancellor of the Exchequer, in late 2010. Although she says she | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
can't remember who brought the subject up. You think it is an | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
appropriate conversation with Mr Osbourne or not? It was an entirely | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
appropriate conversation. I was reflecting the opposite view to the | :04:43. | :04:49. | |
view that he had heard by that stage from pretty much every member | :04:49. | :04:55. | |
of the anti-Sky bid alliance on those occasions. For one three- | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
minute conversation at the beginning of dinner, I got the | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
opportunity to give our view. I don't see why that is inappropriate. | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
If you remember the length of the conversation, you might be able to | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
assist us in who initiated it, Mrs Brooks, wouldn't you agree? I was | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
accepting for the sake of argument that I brought it up, I can't | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
remember if it is absolutely true. The most interesting revelation | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
related to Frederic Michel, director of public affairs for News | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
Corporation. Today we saw an e-mail he sent to Rebekah Brooks, | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
apparently detailing a conversation with Jeremy Hunt, the Culture | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
Secretary's special adviser. Jeremy Hunt was the minister deciding on | :05:33. | :05:40. | |
the BSkyB bid, code named Rubicon, by News Corporation. The company | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
was desperate to know whether recent revelations on phone hacking | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
would put the bid in jeopardy. Mr Hunt was due to make a statement to | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
parliament in a few days time what they needed to know -- what, they | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
needed to know, was he going to say. According to the e-mail recovered | :05:56. | :06:04. | |
from Mrs Brooks's smart phone, was that hunt would be referring to the | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
Rubican and repeating the same narrative as given in parliament. | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
This is based on his belief that the police is pursuing things | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
thoroughly, and phone hacking has nothing to do with the media | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
plurality issues. It is extremely helpful. He goes on that Jeremy | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
Hunt wants to prevent a public inquiry. The e-mail goes even | :06:25. | :06:32. | |
further. "JH is now starting to look into phone hacking practices | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
more authorisely and has asked me (Mr Michel) to advise him privately | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
in the coming weeks and guide his and Number Ten's positioning." Do | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
you know what that was about? think it speaks for itself. | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
idea that a Government minister, even Number Ten, was seeking | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
direction on what to do about phone hacking, from the company at the | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
heart of the scandal. Well, if true, that would be explosive. Tonight | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
Jeremy Hunt has issued a statement saying the e-mail from Frederic | :07:02. | :07:08. | |
Michel is completely inaccurate. And that he intends to set the | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
record straight when he gives evidence to Leveson in the next | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
couple of weeks. In her evidence today, Rebekah Brooks also detailed | :07:16. | :07:18. | |
a simply cosy relationship with previous prime ministers, | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
particularly Tony Blair. But, the current Prime Minister knows that | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
he's the man in power, and he is the one who has to defend his | :07:25. | :07:31. | |
conduct. The writer and columnist Iain | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
Martin, David Richards of the Independent, and the lawyer -- | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
Steve Richards, and the lawyer Charlotte Harris, who has | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
represented phone hacking victims, and are here to review Rebekah | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
Brooks's performance. You saw a lot of witnesses, what did you make of | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
today? I thought she started off very smooth, and confident, and | :07:52. | :07:58. | |
prepared. But then, of course, she has had a lot of time to think | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
about this. This is going on for such a long time. She also was | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
clearly so involved in the paper that you would have thought that | :08:04. | :08:10. | |
she would be able to assist the inquiry. Her appearance was | :08:10. | :08:16. | |
interesting. Because she appeared to be dressed quite innocently, but | :08:16. | :08:26. | |
:08:26. | :08:26. | ||
with the collar, the contrasting collar, it did look a little bit | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
Salem. The Massachusetts witch trials? A little bit. She's very | :08:31. | :08:37. | |
dramatic and an iconic figure. There was that drama today with the | :08:37. | :08:44. | |
inquiry. She turned up with her massive red hair, wearing a black | :08:44. | :08:51. | |
outfit, with white collar and white cuffs, and she faced her audience, | :08:51. | :08:59. | |
and she did that, I think, very unapoll gettically. Certainly she's | :08:59. | :09:06. | |
an -- apologeticly, certainly she's brought that up. She talked about | :09:06. | :09:12. | |
trivial stuff which people found ironic. On the e-mail question with | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
Jeremy Hunt, if he did say what he is supposed to have said, he's | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
toast isn't he? If, it is a big if, that is the big news story that | :09:20. | :09:30. | |
:09:30. | :09:33. | ||
comes out of the inquiry. It was not a great day of revelations. I | :09:33. | :09:40. | |
was taken by the puritan chic. But what was fascinating about it was | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
seeing this person who has been one of the most powerful people in the | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
country for a decade, or more, actually put on the spot. You | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
realise that we haven't actually seen very much of her until now. We | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
haven't heard her say very much. You have to remember that is | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
probably also the first time she has been put on the spot in that | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
way, in the course of the last decade. She has been the boss, | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
people have been reporting to her, she asks them questions, not the | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
other way round. I thought she was slightly thrown earlier on, she was | :10:08. | :10:14. | |
thrown by the novelty of it. But grew in kf can dense as it went on. | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
-- In confidence as it went on. Frederic Michel's e-mail where he's | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
talking about Jeremy Hunt, could be talking, it is accepted, that | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
sometimes he meant people in his office, special advisers. That | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
might go nowhere. It could be a blow hard saying he had great | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
contacts? It might be, I felt that part of the day, when they focused | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
on this, they were getting somewhere fresh and specific. The | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
early stuff, it was fascinating to see her, I thought she was witty, | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
elegant, authoritative, I was told she's a very nervous interviewee, | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
and hardly appeared in a studio when an editor. It revealed much | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
about her personality, but it wasn't about her and it was about | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
the politicians. Most specifically, it became interesting when we heard | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
more about the degree of co- operation, between, at the very | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
least, Jeremy Hunt's office. question was in relation to the | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
BSkyB bid, which is the real political issue here? This is the | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
most explosive area of this, in terms of relations with politicians, | :11:15. | :11:20. | |
we have known about it. She said it today, actually, about 1,000 bookss | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
will be written about new Labour and the relationship with Rupert | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
Murdoch. And we know quite a lot about David Cameron, it doesn't do | :11:28. | :11:37. | |
him any good at all to be up there so vividly. LOL laugh out loud. | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
This old era is ending and he's trapped in it. The specifics on the | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
BSkyB bid, is where it gets most dangerous for him and Jeremy Hunt. | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
As Steve suggested, we knew some of this before about the access, I'm | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
not sure everybody knows the details and the questions ofing, | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
and all those things that did come -- of texting, and all those things | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
in themselves. There is a small number of people who get together | :12:01. | :12:06. | |
often, and take decisions on the big issues that affect the country? | :12:06. | :12:14. | |
That very much came out today. I felt that some of the | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
institutionalised attitudes of people who have worked in the press | :12:18. | :12:25. | |
at that level for a long time came across. That it seemed Brooks | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
Rebekah Brooks was a little bit blase about the kind of access that | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
she had, and the privilege that access gives you. Most people do | :12:33. | :12:41. | |
not have an opportunity to hob nobody with people who are -- hob | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
nob with people who are on politicalS, and people campaign | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
heavily for a few moments with the Prime Minister. It was a lack of | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
awareness from her point of view, that having that amount of meetings | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
is hugely powerful and influential, and you can't abuse it. The other | :12:57. | :13:03. | |
big thing, which came out, a lot of Mr Jay's questioning of her, this | :13:03. | :13:12. | |
idea of certain threats in aspect of the media. If she as a -- if as | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
a senior politician don't do what we want, you will have bad | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
publicity, she batted that away? That is the damaging thing, | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
ultimately, for the political class. The story of politics over the last | :13:24. | :13:29. | |
20 years, it has essentially become a game in which influence and power | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
are traded. That is a thread that runs through the banking crisis, | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
through MPs' expenses, a sense that the public isn't really invited to | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
the party. That there is an increasingly globalised elite which | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
conducts business and trades in its own interests. That, I think, is | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
ultimately where the harm lies for David Cameron, because he is now, | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
will now be painted by his opponents as being part of that. As | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
though coming from another age. Isn't there harm for the press too. | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
If you listen to some of it, the word wasn't used in this way, but | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
there was a suggestion that a kind of blackmail goes on here. We in | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
the press have a great deal of power, and if you don't support | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
this campaign or that campaign, you will get it in the neck, we will | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
reveal things about your private life, for example? It came up in | :14:14. | :14:21. | |
evidence, the ridiculous business of the Sun thinking that it decided | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
who won elections. That was always a nonsense. Which Rupert Murdoch | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
himself thought it was a bad idea. They got totally carried away with | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
that idea. There was a swagger, and it was most unseemly. I also think | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
that the most important thing that came out of today, was that we now | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
see that this inquiry, I think, is heading in a very, very troubling | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
direction. I think you could tell from the tone of the questioning, | :14:46. | :14:55. | |
and in certain respects, particularly on the question of of | :14:55. | :15:01. | |
Sharon Shoesmith and Ed Balls, a the question about had she phoned | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
the minister on the public campaign she was running. You could tell, it | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
seems to me, that there is a mind set at the heart of the inquiry, | :15:08. | :15:14. | |
which is, if we're not very careful, is going to lead to the protection | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
of officialdom. Certainly up until now, everything will change now. | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
You could sort of understand why politicians wanted to see her, and | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
get the endorsement of the Sun. You can sort of understand why Gordon | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
Brown was livid when he heard that wasn't going to happen on the night | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
of his party conference speech. You can sort of understand why David | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
Cameron and George Osbourne, who weren't getting a particularly good | :15:35. | :15:40. | |
press, wanted a good press. These people mediate politics to their | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
readers. She kept on saying that. So they are powerful. There is a | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
distinction between that and getting too close to them. And | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
certainly, when it comes to specific Government policies, then | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
you are on really dangerous ground. Briefly, the really interesting | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
thing was they weren't allowed to ask about phone hacking, because | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
there is a possibility of further legal prosecutions and so on? | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
is one of the big concerns. No questions on phone hacking, a | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
criminal prosecution that could happen, and I truly think they are | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
really closing up now. It is not going to be long. Running at the | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
same time as a public inquiry, where the same people who were the | :16:20. | :16:25. | |
key witnesses in a public inquiry, are also going to be facing very | :16:25. | :16:28. | |
serious criminal charges. Can they have a fair trial? And how far do | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
we take it in terms of this. That is why today was about the politics. | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
And the police investigation is about the media. | :16:36. | :16:46. | |
Could we be on course for the biggest eurobail-out yet, as | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
politicians in Greece still try to form a Government and stay within | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
the euro, a much bigger potentially problem has appeared in Spain. The | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
extent of banking losses still isn't clear there. Paul Mason is | :16:58. | :17:00. | |
here. Today what has essentially happened | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
is the Spanish Government has said the bank bail-out we did in | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
February, it was based on the wrong figures and we have to do 30 | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
billion more. It came on the day that the European Commission chose | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
to issue a very bleak prognosis for growth across Europe. Basically | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
there isn't going to be any for a year. That is across the 27-nation | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
European Union. For the eurozone there will be what they call a mild | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
recession, 0.3% shrinkage. The story is of demand trying to revive | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
in the face of banks paying down their debts and refusing to lend to | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
businesses. Where have we heard that before, and of Government | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
spending cuts. Repressing the ability to recover. Spain is the | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
test case. Its economy is shrinking badly. It has high unemployment, we | :17:45. | :17:51. | |
are about to see another round of protests there. The bank bail-out, | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
30 billion is a lot of money. But that is money that the Government | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
has already borrowed from the Spanish banks, to bail them out. If | :17:59. | :18:05. | |
you think that is confusing, watch this. | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
Spain's problem is brutally simple, its housing bubble was so vast that | :18:10. | :18:17. | |
it has left a wasteland of unsold, unsellable properties, and Spanish | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
banks sitting on a mountain of bad debt. Today is the latest stage in | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
the process of making the banks come clean. Bankia, nationalised | :18:25. | :18:32. | |
yesterday, had lent 38 billion euros to property buyers, of that | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
32 billion of the debt was problematic. For the whole system | :18:35. | :18:41. | |
there is 184 billion worth of bad loan,, and sealed up properties, | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
enough to sink the is -- loans, and sealed up property, enough to sink | :18:46. | :18:52. | |
the system. Today the Spanish Government acted, it gave the banks | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
a compulsory loan of 30 billion, at punishing interest rates, to shore | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
up the economy. It may not be enough. What the Spanish economy | :19:00. | :19:07. | |
needs is an injection of equity from the outside, perhaps from the | :19:07. | :19:14. | |
EFSF -- he was he was, or -- whatever the banks might benefit | :19:14. | :19:20. | |
from, in terms of the injection of equity, might actually lead to a | :19:20. | :19:26. | |
deterioration of the fiscal situation. We are stuck in this | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
trap where the only entities buying Spanish Government bonds have been | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
spannic banks, and the Spanish Government is then the entity who | :19:33. | :19:39. | |
is using the opportunity to inject capital into Spanish banks. It is | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
smoke and mirrors. Spain is turning into the economic danger zone for | :19:42. | :19:48. | |
Europe. It has been plaged by protests. It is predicted to shrink | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
by 1.4% this year. Unemployment stands at 25%, and for the young, | :19:52. | :19:58. | |
more than 50%. By the European Union is demanding | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
spending cuts and tax rises. Few doubt where that will lead. Spain's | :20:02. | :20:12. | |
stuck in this trap where confidence is very low, there is excessive | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
levels of debt. Consumers, banks and corporations and the Government | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
are all trying to pay off their debt. It cannot devalue because it | :20:20. | :20:25. | |
is in the eurozone. Tax revenues are falling. Tomorrow looks worse | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
than today, the day after tomorrow looks worse than tomorrow. It was | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
Spanish youth who, a year ago today, invented the idea of occupying | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
public space in mass protest. If today's move does not finally put | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
the lid on the Spanish banking crisis, the country is in danger of | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
a spiral of austerity, protest and recession. And we have already seen | :20:46. | :20:55. | |
that played out in Greece. Speaking of Greece, where does this | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
leave Greece, without a Government, no doubt? Without a Government, but | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
what has happened tonight, the Socialist Party, the former | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
Government of Greece, announced it is unable to form a Government with | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
the coalition talks. There is likely to be another election | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
called. What many in the mainstream in Greece hoped, was having voted | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
for the extremes on Sunday, the Greek people would move back to the | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
centre under the pressure of all the rhetoric coming out of Brussels | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
and Berlin. This is not happening. The latest polls reveal that Syriza, | :21:26. | :21:32. | |
the far left party, led by Danny Cipriani, we can see him at the | :21:32. | :21:37. | |
celebration -- Alexis Tsipras, we can see him at the celebration | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
rally when they got 17% in the election, they are polling 27% for | :21:41. | :21:45. | |
this one left party alone. On my calculation, that would put them in | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
pole position in the election and give them a third of seats in | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
parliament. The bad news for the European centre is there are | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
probably another 50 seats for the rest of the left. We could be | :21:54. | :21:59. | |
within a month of seeing a real far left Government in Greece. What | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
that would do to the euro's sent certainty, who knows. Greece won't | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
be in the euro then? Most of the left parties want to stay in. But | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
what they want will not allow them to stay in under current | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
circumstances. The only thing one could see saving the Greek party | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
system as it is, is if the European Union were able to offer a series | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
of concessions that the centreist politicians could take back to | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
their own voters. We came with a piece of paper, we got something. | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
All the rhetoric, the Germans have voters too, coming out of Berlin is | :22:30. | :22:37. | |
no way, this is not going to happen. This week's convictions of the men | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
behind the Rochdale sex grooming network, have raised serious | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
concerns about the protection of children in care, or perhaps the | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
lack of protection. The Rochdale men preyed on teenagers, plying | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
them with drink and drugs, and found their victims very often from | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
the most vulnerable. People who perhaps could have expected the | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
state to do for more them. The nine men convicted in Rochdale | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
for abusing girls as young as 13, targeted those who were typically | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
in care, or on at-risk registers. One 15-year-old was the sole | :23:09. | :23:19. | |
:23:19. | :23:20. | ||
resident of a �250,000, round -the- clock air -- care home, who went | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
missing 19 times overnight in one month. There were recorded 631 | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
recorded incidents of children being sold for sex in the last five | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
years. The children's minister told MPs this week it was impossible to | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
know the extent and numbers of children missing from care, because | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
of erratic data collection, which he said caused concern and | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
confusion. Since the 2008 trial, following the | :23:44. | :23:49. | |
death of Baby Peter, care applications have risen by 57%. | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
But with increasing pressure on the services, and Rochdale only the | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
latest case in a failing system, how can we deliver proper | :23:56. | :24:02. | |
protection. Here to discuss what's going wrong | :24:02. | :24:07. | |
are the poet Lemn Sissay, who spent 18 years in the care system as a | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
child, and Sue Berelowittz, who is Deputy Children's Commissioner for | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
England, and has been asked this week by the he had case secretary | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
to make recommendations for tackling the targeted sexual | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
exploitation of children in care. I take it you don't have much | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
surprise, that the people targeted by this kind of gang, were people | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
in care or at risk, because they are vulnerable? It doesn't surprise | :24:27. | :24:33. | |
me at all. It seems that every few years a case comes up with a | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
vulnerable child, who has been in care, has suffered from some kind | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
of abuse. Look, the Government is the parent of the child. The legal | :24:42. | :24:48. | |
parent of the child in care. And therefore, we should give that | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
child exemplary service, as a parent would to its child. | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
suspect that everybody listened -- listening to this, from whatever | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
political background, would agree with this. It always puzles me why | :25:03. | :25:10. | |
people in care aren't cared for in a better way? That is a very good | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
question. The quality of care in places are good and in other places | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
it is not good enough. I meet children moved from one placement | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
to another. I met a child the other day, who actually stopped counting | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
at 25, he was recount to go me all the placements he had, between the | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
ages of three and 17. Imagine what it is like to move 25 times in that | :25:30. | :25:38. | |
period of your life. It is just not good enough. What about the case of | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
the girl we heard this week in the �250,000 home and she managed to | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
get out 19 times in three months. That is twice a week. How can that | :25:46. | :25:53. | |
happen? I can understand in so far as care homes, like anybody's home, | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
don't have locked doors. Children aren't locked into them, unless | :25:56. | :26:01. | |
they are in a secure unit. Children can come and go. As it was said, | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
the people who are running the homes, and the local authorities, | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
are the parents of the child. It is their responsibility, just like any | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
good parent, to make sure that their children are safe, that they | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
know where their children are going, that they get them back safely at | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
night. The problem is often that a child runs away from home, because | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
they want somebody to find them that cares for them. This is why | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
children run away from children's homes, what happens is the police | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
are sent to them. Because they fall into an institutional pattern then. | :26:34. | :26:39. | |
A child runs away from home to see somebody, they want to be found, I | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
think psychalogically, they want somebody who loves them to find | :26:42. | :26:48. | |
them. Or who cares for them. Underlying this is the film yart of | :26:48. | :26:58. | |
some of this. Familiar familiarity of this. You have been tasked with | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
this review, why does it take so long to get handle on this? What | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
I'm actually looking at is the sexual exploitation of children. | :27:06. | :27:13. | |
Nobody knows exactly what the scale and extent of it is. We are using | :27:13. | :27:18. | |
the Children's Commissioner's powers to get hold of the | :27:18. | :27:24. | |
information and -- the information and find out what is happening. My | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
initial plan was a report in September of this year, I launched | :27:28. | :27:33. | |
in October, giving facts and figures in terms of who is doing | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
what to whom in what circumstances. I'm tired of reviews, I'm tired of | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
the idea that change is needed. We are all parents, the Government, | :27:42. | :27:49. | |
the social services are parents. We know how to look after our own | :27:49. | :27:54. | |
children, how can we not transfer what we know about looking after | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
our own children, to the children who we are legally the parents of. | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
Why do we need another review. Is that more accountable to the | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
institution, rather than it is to the actual children we are supposed | :28:06. | :28:11. | |
to be caring for. Who is this review actually for? I'm not doing | :28:11. | :28:17. | |
a review. What I'm doing is an inquiry. An inquiry? Nobody knows | :28:17. | :28:22. | |
the extent of the sexual exploitation of children. I'm doing | :28:22. | :28:27. | |
it. In 2012? We can build an Olympic site, but we can't work out | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
how many of our own children n our own care, for our own Government, | :28:32. | :28:38. | |
sorry, I apologise. Just let her have a go? I'm looking not only at | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
children in the care system, but all children being sexually | :28:43. | :28:46. | |
exploited. The Secretary of State is particularly, at the moment, | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
worried about children in care, being sexually exploited. We are | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
worried about all children being sexually exploited. Just this | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
Government, or any Government, Michael Gove or anybody else, to | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
actually act on what you finally produce? They are going to need to | :29:00. | :29:05. | |
act. And the first task is to get people to wake up to the scale of | :29:05. | :29:12. | |
what's going on. Our findings telling us, that actually this is | :29:12. | :29:14. | |
very widespread. Nobody should be confident that there is any part of | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
our country in which children are not being sexually exploited. | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
We have run out of time. We're standing by with the review show in | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
a minute. What have you got? More lively discussion from us as | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
well as you guys, tonight we are covering a quartet of literary | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
heavyweights on a book special. New novels from Hilary Mantel, John | :29:35. | :29:42. | |
Irving and Mark Haddon, as well as the much anticipated follow-up to | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
The Suspicions of Mr Whicher, join me with Kate Mosse, John Mullen and | :29:47. | :29:51. |