11/05/2012 Newsnight


11/05/2012

With Gavin Esler. Rebekah Brooks faces the Leveson Inquiry. Paul Mason on the Spanish banking crisis. And after Rochdale, how vulnerable are children in care?


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Transcript


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Tonight, Rupert Murdoch's former top executive in Britain reveals

:00:11.:00:15.

just how much she influenced Government ministers.

:00:15.:00:19.

For one three-minute conversation at the beginning of dinner, I got

:00:19.:00:29.

the opportunity to give our view. I don't see why that's inappropriate.

:00:29.:00:39.
:00:39.:00:42.

Rebekah Brooks, chief executive of lobbied for the BSkyB bid.

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The Culture Secretary sought guided advice on his position.

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We will analyse the claims and the damage to the Government, with two

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political commentators and a prominent media lawyer.

:00:52.:00:57.

The drain in Spain, more protests, the latest twists in the eurozone

:00:57.:01:01.

bail-out, and another black hole in banking finances. Paul Mason is

:01:01.:01:05.

here. The Spanish Government is lending

:01:05.:01:09.

the banks 30 billion euros, only one slight problem, that is the

:01:09.:01:13.

money the banks have lent to the Government. The Rochdale grooming

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convictions raise new questions about the crisis in care homes all

:01:16.:01:26.
:01:26.:01:27.

across Britain. Good evening, one former News

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Corporation executive calls it, Leveson Syndrome, the inability of

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otherwise apparently healthy people to remember the details of rather

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important events, when questioned at the Leveson Inquiry. Today the

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star witness was Rebekah Brooks, who certainly did remember close

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contact with the people who run this country. Including the

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affectionate tone of texts from David Cameron, and his

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commiserations when she lost her job. The greatest heat was on the

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Culture Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, whose career is already in the

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balance. A newly revealed e-mail suggests he sought private advice

:02:00.:02:05.

from News Corporation over phone hacking.

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She's the ultimate newspaper red- top, for a decade the distinctive

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Rebekah Brooks has been at the heart of Britain's tabloid press,

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as an editor and executive with daily access to senior politicians.

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But, as the inquiry reminded her, these are difficult days for this

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once powerful woman. You are under police investigation in the contegs

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of Operation Weet weet, -- on text of Operation Weeting, Operation

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Elveden, and for also perverting the course of justice, is that

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true? Yes. Even after Mr Brooks was arrested and she lost her job in

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July 2011, the politicians still made contact, to send their

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condolences. Number Ten, Number 11, Home Office, Foreign Office. One of

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Mr Cameron's messages, sent through an intermediary, went along the

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lines of "keep your head up". you also receive a message from him

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via an intermediary along these loings, "sorry I could not be as

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loyal to you as I could be, but Mr Miliband had my on the run", or

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words to that effect. Similar, but indirectly. Sadly, Rebekah Brooks

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told the inquiry, that none of the numerous text conversations with

:03:30.:03:34.

David Cameron had survived. They definitely weren't more than a

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couple of weeks, definitely not the dozen a day of certain reports. One

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thing we could say, is they were pretty chumy in tone. Her Majesty's

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Prime Minister and first Lord of the Treasury, apparently signs his

:03:48.:03:58.

messages, LOL DC. Occasionally he would sign them off, LOL "lots of

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love", until I told him it meant "laugh out loud", then he didn't

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sign them like that at all. In the main, DC, I would have thought.

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There was, we heard, substance to this relationship, David Cameron

:04:12.:04:15.

called Rebekah Brooks, she said, to discuss phone hacking. He wanted an

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update. They also discussed the BSkyB bid, though not at any length.

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Mrs Brooks said she had a longer discussion during a dinner with the

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Chancellor of the Exchequer, in late 2010. Although she says she

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can't remember who brought the subject up. You think it is an

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appropriate conversation with Mr Osbourne or not? It was an entirely

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appropriate conversation. I was reflecting the opposite view to the

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view that he had heard by that stage from pretty much every member

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of the anti-Sky bid alliance on those occasions. For one three-

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minute conversation at the beginning of dinner, I got the

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opportunity to give our view. I don't see why that is inappropriate.

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If you remember the length of the conversation, you might be able to

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assist us in who initiated it, Mrs Brooks, wouldn't you agree? I was

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accepting for the sake of argument that I brought it up, I can't

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remember if it is absolutely true. The most interesting revelation

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related to Frederic Michel, director of public affairs for News

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Corporation. Today we saw an e-mail he sent to Rebekah Brooks,

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apparently detailing a conversation with Jeremy Hunt, the Culture

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Secretary's special adviser. Jeremy Hunt was the minister deciding on

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the BSkyB bid, code named Rubicon, by News Corporation. The company

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was desperate to know whether recent revelations on phone hacking

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would put the bid in jeopardy. Mr Hunt was due to make a statement to

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parliament in a few days time what they needed to know -- what, they

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needed to know, was he going to say. According to the e-mail recovered

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from Mrs Brooks's smart phone, was that hunt would be referring to the

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Rubican and repeating the same narrative as given in parliament.

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This is based on his belief that the police is pursuing things

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thoroughly, and phone hacking has nothing to do with the media

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plurality issues. It is extremely helpful. He goes on that Jeremy

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Hunt wants to prevent a public inquiry. The e-mail goes even

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further. "JH is now starting to look into phone hacking practices

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more authorisely and has asked me (Mr Michel) to advise him privately

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in the coming weeks and guide his and Number Ten's positioning." Do

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you know what that was about? think it speaks for itself.

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idea that a Government minister, even Number Ten, was seeking

:06:50.:06:54.

direction on what to do about phone hacking, from the company at the

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heart of the scandal. Well, if true, that would be explosive. Tonight

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Jeremy Hunt has issued a statement saying the e-mail from Frederic

:07:02.:07:08.

Michel is completely inaccurate. And that he intends to set the

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record straight when he gives evidence to Leveson in the next

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couple of weeks. In her evidence today, Rebekah Brooks also detailed

:07:16.:07:18.

a simply cosy relationship with previous prime ministers,

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particularly Tony Blair. But, the current Prime Minister knows that

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he's the man in power, and he is the one who has to defend his

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conduct. The writer and columnist Iain

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Martin, David Richards of the Independent, and the lawyer --

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Steve Richards, and the lawyer Charlotte Harris, who has

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represented phone hacking victims, and are here to review Rebekah

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Brooks's performance. You saw a lot of witnesses, what did you make of

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today? I thought she started off very smooth, and confident, and

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prepared. But then, of course, she has had a lot of time to think

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about this. This is going on for such a long time. She also was

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clearly so involved in the paper that you would have thought that

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she would be able to assist the inquiry. Her appearance was

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interesting. Because she appeared to be dressed quite innocently, but

:08:16.:08:26.
:08:26.:08:26.

with the collar, the contrasting collar, it did look a little bit

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Salem. The Massachusetts witch trials? A little bit. She's very

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dramatic and an iconic figure. There was that drama today with the

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inquiry. She turned up with her massive red hair, wearing a black

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outfit, with white collar and white cuffs, and she faced her audience,

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and she did that, I think, very unapoll gettically. Certainly she's

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an -- apologeticly, certainly she's brought that up. She talked about

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trivial stuff which people found ironic. On the e-mail question with

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Jeremy Hunt, if he did say what he is supposed to have said, he's

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toast isn't he? If, it is a big if, that is the big news story that

:09:20.:09:30.
:09:30.:09:33.

comes out of the inquiry. It was not a great day of revelations. I

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was taken by the puritan chic. But what was fascinating about it was

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seeing this person who has been one of the most powerful people in the

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country for a decade, or more, actually put on the spot. You

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realise that we haven't actually seen very much of her until now. We

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haven't heard her say very much. You have to remember that is

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probably also the first time she has been put on the spot in that

:09:57.:10:01.

way, in the course of the last decade. She has been the boss,

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people have been reporting to her, she asks them questions, not the

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other way round. I thought she was slightly thrown earlier on, she was

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thrown by the novelty of it. But grew in kf can dense as it went on.

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-- In confidence as it went on. Frederic Michel's e-mail where he's

:10:19.:10:22.

talking about Jeremy Hunt, could be talking, it is accepted, that

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sometimes he meant people in his office, special advisers. That

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might go nowhere. It could be a blow hard saying he had great

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contacts? It might be, I felt that part of the day, when they focused

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on this, they were getting somewhere fresh and specific. The

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early stuff, it was fascinating to see her, I thought she was witty,

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elegant, authoritative, I was told she's a very nervous interviewee,

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and hardly appeared in a studio when an editor. It revealed much

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about her personality, but it wasn't about her and it was about

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the politicians. Most specifically, it became interesting when we heard

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more about the degree of co- operation, between, at the very

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least, Jeremy Hunt's office. question was in relation to the

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BSkyB bid, which is the real political issue here? This is the

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most explosive area of this, in terms of relations with politicians,

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we have known about it. She said it today, actually, about 1,000 bookss

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will be written about new Labour and the relationship with Rupert

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Murdoch. And we know quite a lot about David Cameron, it doesn't do

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him any good at all to be up there so vividly. LOL laugh out loud.

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This old era is ending and he's trapped in it. The specifics on the

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BSkyB bid, is where it gets most dangerous for him and Jeremy Hunt.

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As Steve suggested, we knew some of this before about the access, I'm

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not sure everybody knows the details and the questions ofing,

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and all those things that did come -- of texting, and all those things

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in themselves. There is a small number of people who get together

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often, and take decisions on the big issues that affect the country?

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That very much came out today. I felt that some of the

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institutionalised attitudes of people who have worked in the press

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at that level for a long time came across. That it seemed Brooks

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Rebekah Brooks was a little bit blase about the kind of access that

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she had, and the privilege that access gives you. Most people do

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not have an opportunity to hob nobody with people who are -- hob

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nob with people who are on politicalS, and people campaign

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heavily for a few moments with the Prime Minister. It was a lack of

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awareness from her point of view, that having that amount of meetings

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is hugely powerful and influential, and you can't abuse it. The other

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big thing, which came out, a lot of Mr Jay's questioning of her, this

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idea of certain threats in aspect of the media. If she as a -- if as

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a senior politician don't do what we want, you will have bad

:13:16.:13:21.

publicity, she batted that away? That is the damaging thing,

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ultimately, for the political class. The story of politics over the last

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20 years, it has essentially become a game in which influence and power

:13:29.:13:33.

are traded. That is a thread that runs through the banking crisis,

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through MPs' expenses, a sense that the public isn't really invited to

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the party. That there is an increasingly globalised elite which

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conducts business and trades in its own interests. That, I think, is

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ultimately where the harm lies for David Cameron, because he is now,

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will now be painted by his opponents as being part of that. As

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though coming from another age. Isn't there harm for the press too.

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If you listen to some of it, the word wasn't used in this way, but

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there was a suggestion that a kind of blackmail goes on here. We in

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the press have a great deal of power, and if you don't support

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this campaign or that campaign, you will get it in the neck, we will

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reveal things about your private life, for example? It came up in

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evidence, the ridiculous business of the Sun thinking that it decided

:14:21.:14:25.

who won elections. That was always a nonsense. Which Rupert Murdoch

:14:25.:14:29.

himself thought it was a bad idea. They got totally carried away with

:14:29.:14:33.

that idea. There was a swagger, and it was most unseemly. I also think

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that the most important thing that came out of today, was that we now

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see that this inquiry, I think, is heading in a very, very troubling

:14:42.:14:46.

direction. I think you could tell from the tone of the questioning,

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and in certain respects, particularly on the question of of

:14:55.:15:01.

Sharon Shoesmith and Ed Balls, a the question about had she phoned

:15:01.:15:04.

the minister on the public campaign she was running. You could tell, it

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seems to me, that there is a mind set at the heart of the inquiry,

:15:08.:15:14.

which is, if we're not very careful, is going to lead to the protection

:15:14.:15:18.

of officialdom. Certainly up until now, everything will change now.

:15:18.:15:22.

You could sort of understand why politicians wanted to see her, and

:15:22.:15:25.

get the endorsement of the Sun. You can sort of understand why Gordon

:15:25.:15:29.

Brown was livid when he heard that wasn't going to happen on the night

:15:29.:15:33.

of his party conference speech. You can sort of understand why David

:15:33.:15:35.

Cameron and George Osbourne, who weren't getting a particularly good

:15:35.:15:40.

press, wanted a good press. These people mediate politics to their

:15:40.:15:45.

readers. She kept on saying that. So they are powerful. There is a

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distinction between that and getting too close to them. And

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certainly, when it comes to specific Government policies, then

:15:53.:15:58.

you are on really dangerous ground. Briefly, the really interesting

:15:58.:16:01.

thing was they weren't allowed to ask about phone hacking, because

:16:01.:16:05.

there is a possibility of further legal prosecutions and so on?

:16:05.:16:09.

is one of the big concerns. No questions on phone hacking, a

:16:09.:16:13.

criminal prosecution that could happen, and I truly think they are

:16:13.:16:16.

really closing up now. It is not going to be long. Running at the

:16:16.:16:20.

same time as a public inquiry, where the same people who were the

:16:20.:16:25.

key witnesses in a public inquiry, are also going to be facing very

:16:25.:16:28.

serious criminal charges. Can they have a fair trial? And how far do

:16:28.:16:33.

we take it in terms of this. That is why today was about the politics.

:16:33.:16:36.

And the police investigation is about the media.

:16:36.:16:46.

Could we be on course for the biggest eurobail-out yet, as

:16:46.:16:49.

politicians in Greece still try to form a Government and stay within

:16:49.:16:53.

the euro, a much bigger potentially problem has appeared in Spain. The

:16:53.:16:58.

extent of banking losses still isn't clear there. Paul Mason is

:16:58.:17:00.

here. Today what has essentially happened

:17:00.:17:04.

is the Spanish Government has said the bank bail-out we did in

:17:04.:17:08.

February, it was based on the wrong figures and we have to do 30

:17:08.:17:12.

billion more. It came on the day that the European Commission chose

:17:12.:17:16.

to issue a very bleak prognosis for growth across Europe. Basically

:17:16.:17:20.

there isn't going to be any for a year. That is across the 27-nation

:17:20.:17:24.

European Union. For the eurozone there will be what they call a mild

:17:24.:17:29.

recession, 0.3% shrinkage. The story is of demand trying to revive

:17:29.:17:34.

in the face of banks paying down their debts and refusing to lend to

:17:34.:17:37.

businesses. Where have we heard that before, and of Government

:17:37.:17:42.

spending cuts. Repressing the ability to recover. Spain is the

:17:42.:17:45.

test case. Its economy is shrinking badly. It has high unemployment, we

:17:45.:17:51.

are about to see another round of protests there. The bank bail-out,

:17:51.:17:55.

30 billion is a lot of money. But that is money that the Government

:17:55.:17:59.

has already borrowed from the Spanish banks, to bail them out. If

:17:59.:18:05.

you think that is confusing, watch this.

:18:05.:18:10.

Spain's problem is brutally simple, its housing bubble was so vast that

:18:10.:18:17.

it has left a wasteland of unsold, unsellable properties, and Spanish

:18:17.:18:20.

banks sitting on a mountain of bad debt. Today is the latest stage in

:18:20.:18:25.

the process of making the banks come clean. Bankia, nationalised

:18:25.:18:32.

yesterday, had lent 38 billion euros to property buyers, of that

:18:32.:18:35.

32 billion of the debt was problematic. For the whole system

:18:35.:18:41.

there is 184 billion worth of bad loan,, and sealed up properties,

:18:41.:18:46.

enough to sink the is -- loans, and sealed up property, enough to sink

:18:46.:18:52.

the system. Today the Spanish Government acted, it gave the banks

:18:52.:18:56.

a compulsory loan of 30 billion, at punishing interest rates, to shore

:18:56.:19:00.

up the economy. It may not be enough. What the Spanish economy

:19:00.:19:07.

needs is an injection of equity from the outside, perhaps from the

:19:07.:19:14.

EFSF -- he was he was, or -- whatever the banks might benefit

:19:14.:19:20.

from, in terms of the injection of equity, might actually lead to a

:19:20.:19:26.

deterioration of the fiscal situation. We are stuck in this

:19:26.:19:29.

trap where the only entities buying Spanish Government bonds have been

:19:30.:19:33.

spannic banks, and the Spanish Government is then the entity who

:19:33.:19:39.

is using the opportunity to inject capital into Spanish banks. It is

:19:39.:19:42.

smoke and mirrors. Spain is turning into the economic danger zone for

:19:42.:19:48.

Europe. It has been plaged by protests. It is predicted to shrink

:19:48.:19:52.

by 1.4% this year. Unemployment stands at 25%, and for the young,

:19:52.:19:58.

more than 50%. By the European Union is demanding

:19:58.:20:02.

spending cuts and tax rises. Few doubt where that will lead. Spain's

:20:02.:20:12.

stuck in this trap where confidence is very low, there is excessive

:20:12.:20:15.

levels of debt. Consumers, banks and corporations and the Government

:20:15.:20:20.

are all trying to pay off their debt. It cannot devalue because it

:20:20.:20:25.

is in the eurozone. Tax revenues are falling. Tomorrow looks worse

:20:25.:20:29.

than today, the day after tomorrow looks worse than tomorrow. It was

:20:29.:20:34.

Spanish youth who, a year ago today, invented the idea of occupying

:20:34.:20:38.

public space in mass protest. If today's move does not finally put

:20:38.:20:42.

the lid on the Spanish banking crisis, the country is in danger of

:20:42.:20:46.

a spiral of austerity, protest and recession. And we have already seen

:20:46.:20:55.

that played out in Greece. Speaking of Greece, where does this

:20:55.:21:00.

leave Greece, without a Government, no doubt? Without a Government, but

:21:00.:21:05.

what has happened tonight, the Socialist Party, the former

:21:05.:21:08.

Government of Greece, announced it is unable to form a Government with

:21:08.:21:11.

the coalition talks. There is likely to be another election

:21:11.:21:15.

called. What many in the mainstream in Greece hoped, was having voted

:21:15.:21:19.

for the extremes on Sunday, the Greek people would move back to the

:21:19.:21:22.

centre under the pressure of all the rhetoric coming out of Brussels

:21:22.:21:26.

and Berlin. This is not happening. The latest polls reveal that Syriza,

:21:26.:21:32.

the far left party, led by Danny Cipriani, we can see him at the

:21:32.:21:37.

celebration -- Alexis Tsipras, we can see him at the celebration

:21:37.:21:41.

rally when they got 17% in the election, they are polling 27% for

:21:41.:21:45.

this one left party alone. On my calculation, that would put them in

:21:45.:21:48.

pole position in the election and give them a third of seats in

:21:48.:21:52.

parliament. The bad news for the European centre is there are

:21:52.:21:54.

probably another 50 seats for the rest of the left. We could be

:21:54.:21:59.

within a month of seeing a real far left Government in Greece. What

:21:59.:22:03.

that would do to the euro's sent certainty, who knows. Greece won't

:22:03.:22:08.

be in the euro then? Most of the left parties want to stay in. But

:22:08.:22:12.

what they want will not allow them to stay in under current

:22:12.:22:15.

circumstances. The only thing one could see saving the Greek party

:22:15.:22:19.

system as it is, is if the European Union were able to offer a series

:22:19.:22:22.

of concessions that the centreist politicians could take back to

:22:22.:22:26.

their own voters. We came with a piece of paper, we got something.

:22:26.:22:30.

All the rhetoric, the Germans have voters too, coming out of Berlin is

:22:30.:22:37.

no way, this is not going to happen. This week's convictions of the men

:22:37.:22:41.

behind the Rochdale sex grooming network, have raised serious

:22:41.:22:44.

concerns about the protection of children in care, or perhaps the

:22:44.:22:48.

lack of protection. The Rochdale men preyed on teenagers, plying

:22:48.:22:52.

them with drink and drugs, and found their victims very often from

:22:52.:22:55.

the most vulnerable. People who perhaps could have expected the

:22:55.:23:00.

state to do for more them. The nine men convicted in Rochdale

:23:00.:23:04.

for abusing girls as young as 13, targeted those who were typically

:23:04.:23:09.

in care, or on at-risk registers. One 15-year-old was the sole

:23:09.:23:19.
:23:19.:23:20.

resident of a �250,000, round -the- clock air -- care home, who went

:23:20.:23:25.

missing 19 times overnight in one month. There were recorded 631

:23:25.:23:29.

recorded incidents of children being sold for sex in the last five

:23:29.:23:33.

years. The children's minister told MPs this week it was impossible to

:23:33.:23:36.

know the extent and numbers of children missing from care, because

:23:37.:23:40.

of erratic data collection, which he said caused concern and

:23:40.:23:44.

confusion. Since the 2008 trial, following the

:23:44.:23:49.

death of Baby Peter, care applications have risen by 57%.

:23:49.:23:52.

But with increasing pressure on the services, and Rochdale only the

:23:52.:23:56.

latest case in a failing system, how can we deliver proper

:23:56.:24:02.

protection. Here to discuss what's going wrong

:24:02.:24:07.

are the poet Lemn Sissay, who spent 18 years in the care system as a

:24:07.:24:10.

child, and Sue Berelowittz, who is Deputy Children's Commissioner for

:24:10.:24:13.

England, and has been asked this week by the he had case secretary

:24:13.:24:17.

to make recommendations for tackling the targeted sexual

:24:17.:24:20.

exploitation of children in care. I take it you don't have much

:24:20.:24:23.

surprise, that the people targeted by this kind of gang, were people

:24:23.:24:27.

in care or at risk, because they are vulnerable? It doesn't surprise

:24:27.:24:33.

me at all. It seems that every few years a case comes up with a

:24:33.:24:37.

vulnerable child, who has been in care, has suffered from some kind

:24:37.:24:42.

of abuse. Look, the Government is the parent of the child. The legal

:24:42.:24:48.

parent of the child in care. And therefore, we should give that

:24:48.:24:53.

child exemplary service, as a parent would to its child.

:24:53.:24:58.

suspect that everybody listened -- listening to this, from whatever

:24:58.:25:03.

political background, would agree with this. It always puzles me why

:25:03.:25:10.

people in care aren't cared for in a better way? That is a very good

:25:10.:25:14.

question. The quality of care in places are good and in other places

:25:15.:25:18.

it is not good enough. I meet children moved from one placement

:25:18.:25:22.

to another. I met a child the other day, who actually stopped counting

:25:22.:25:26.

at 25, he was recount to go me all the placements he had, between the

:25:26.:25:30.

ages of three and 17. Imagine what it is like to move 25 times in that

:25:30.:25:38.

period of your life. It is just not good enough. What about the case of

:25:38.:25:42.

the girl we heard this week in the �250,000 home and she managed to

:25:42.:25:46.

get out 19 times in three months. That is twice a week. How can that

:25:46.:25:53.

happen? I can understand in so far as care homes, like anybody's home,

:25:53.:25:56.

don't have locked doors. Children aren't locked into them, unless

:25:56.:26:01.

they are in a secure unit. Children can come and go. As it was said,

:26:01.:26:04.

the people who are running the homes, and the local authorities,

:26:04.:26:09.

are the parents of the child. It is their responsibility, just like any

:26:09.:26:13.

good parent, to make sure that their children are safe, that they

:26:13.:26:18.

know where their children are going, that they get them back safely at

:26:18.:26:21.

night. The problem is often that a child runs away from home, because

:26:21.:26:25.

they want somebody to find them that cares for them. This is why

:26:26.:26:29.

children run away from children's homes, what happens is the police

:26:29.:26:34.

are sent to them. Because they fall into an institutional pattern then.

:26:34.:26:39.

A child runs away from home to see somebody, they want to be found, I

:26:39.:26:42.

think psychalogically, they want somebody who loves them to find

:26:42.:26:48.

them. Or who cares for them. Underlying this is the film yart of

:26:48.:26:58.

some of this. Familiar familiarity of this. You have been tasked with

:26:58.:27:02.

this review, why does it take so long to get handle on this? What

:27:02.:27:06.

I'm actually looking at is the sexual exploitation of children.

:27:06.:27:13.

Nobody knows exactly what the scale and extent of it is. We are using

:27:13.:27:18.

the Children's Commissioner's powers to get hold of the

:27:18.:27:24.

information and -- the information and find out what is happening. My

:27:24.:27:28.

initial plan was a report in September of this year, I launched

:27:28.:27:33.

in October, giving facts and figures in terms of who is doing

:27:33.:27:38.

what to whom in what circumstances. I'm tired of reviews, I'm tired of

:27:38.:27:42.

the idea that change is needed. We are all parents, the Government,

:27:42.:27:49.

the social services are parents. We know how to look after our own

:27:49.:27:54.

children, how can we not transfer what we know about looking after

:27:54.:27:58.

our own children, to the children who we are legally the parents of.

:27:58.:28:02.

Why do we need another review. Is that more accountable to the

:28:02.:28:06.

institution, rather than it is to the actual children we are supposed

:28:06.:28:11.

to be caring for. Who is this review actually for? I'm not doing

:28:11.:28:17.

a review. What I'm doing is an inquiry. An inquiry? Nobody knows

:28:17.:28:22.

the extent of the sexual exploitation of children. I'm doing

:28:22.:28:27.

it. In 2012? We can build an Olympic site, but we can't work out

:28:27.:28:32.

how many of our own children n our own care, for our own Government,

:28:32.:28:38.

sorry, I apologise. Just let her have a go? I'm looking not only at

:28:38.:28:43.

children in the care system, but all children being sexually

:28:43.:28:46.

exploited. The Secretary of State is particularly, at the moment,

:28:46.:28:49.

worried about children in care, being sexually exploited. We are

:28:49.:28:53.

worried about all children being sexually exploited. Just this

:28:53.:28:57.

Government, or any Government, Michael Gove or anybody else, to

:28:57.:29:00.

actually act on what you finally produce? They are going to need to

:29:00.:29:05.

act. And the first task is to get people to wake up to the scale of

:29:05.:29:12.

what's going on. Our findings telling us, that actually this is

:29:12.:29:14.

very widespread. Nobody should be confident that there is any part of

:29:14.:29:18.

our country in which children are not being sexually exploited.

:29:18.:29:23.

We have run out of time. We're standing by with the review show in

:29:23.:29:27.

a minute. What have you got? More lively discussion from us as

:29:27.:29:31.

well as you guys, tonight we are covering a quartet of literary

:29:31.:29:35.

heavyweights on a book special. New novels from Hilary Mantel, John

:29:35.:29:42.

Irving and Mark Haddon, as well as the much anticipated follow-up to

:29:43.:29:47.

The Suspicions of Mr Whicher, join me with Kate Mosse, John Mullen and

:29:47.:29:51.

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Gavin Esler. Rebekah Brooks faces the Leveson Inquiry. Paul Mason on the Spanish banking crisis. And after Rochdale, how vulnerable are children in care?


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