01/06/2012 Newsnight


01/06/2012

Presented by Gavin Esler. Is the Syrian leader a war criminal? Paul Mason is in Spain to look at the economy, and the new artwork in London by Chinese dissident Ai Weiwei.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 01/06/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Tonight, U makes its organisations promise a full inversion -- United

:00:13.:00:16.

Nations organisations promise a full investigation into killings in

:00:16.:00:22.

Syria. And point the finger at the Al-Assad regime. Has he committed

:00:23.:00:28.

war crimes. We ask ourselves, why you kill with him. As every day

:00:28.:00:30.

brings further atrocities, is Britain correct to suggest that

:00:30.:00:35.

Syria is on the brink of civil war. We speak to the UN Secretary-

:00:35.:00:38.

General for human rights, along with Paul Wolfowitz, and a friend

:00:38.:00:44.

of the Syrian Government. The old financial wisdom is if

:00:44.:00:48.

there is a queue at a bank, join it. It is happening in Spain, where the

:00:48.:00:53.

money is pouring out, is the EU ready for another major crisis. In

:00:53.:00:57.

London, the Chinese artist, Ai Weiwei's latest work, under

:00:57.:01:01.

constant surveillance at home, we have an exclusive interview with

:01:01.:01:05.

the man regarded as one of the Chinese Government's greatest

:01:05.:01:10.

critics. I like to come to London to say it. My current condition is

:01:10.:01:20.
:01:20.:01:21.

not allowing me to travel. Good evening, the United Nations

:01:21.:01:25.

top human rights body has condemned the Al-Assad regime in Syria, for

:01:25.:01:31.

the massacre of more than 100 civilians in Houla last week. 49 of

:01:31.:01:36.

the victims were children under ten. The UN is suggested Syria is guilty

:01:36.:01:39.

of war crimes and wants an independent investigation. The real

:01:39.:01:43.

power at the UN lies with the Security Council, where Russia

:01:43.:01:52.

seems to be determined to stand but its ally. There are more reports

:01:52.:01:55.

that Syrian Government forces attacked 12 people on their way

:01:55.:02:05.

home from work. Three massacres in one week, ten

:02:05.:02:12.

men killed yesterday, ten corpes discovered on Tuesday, at least --

:02:12.:02:17.

copss, at least 100 people killed in Houla last Friday, many of them

:02:17.:02:21.

children. Are these deaths the tipping point for the outside world

:02:21.:02:29.

to intervene in Syria. The latest grizley video posted on-line by

:02:29.:02:34.

activists, are they say 11 bodies of plant workers and their driver,

:02:34.:02:38.

forced off a bus and killed by the regime. They stopped at a

:02:38.:02:44.

checkpoint. It is a group belonging to the Government, and paid by the

:02:44.:02:47.

Government. Probably professional killers. That can't be verified.

:02:47.:02:54.

But the role of the shabiha militia in the previous two atrocities, has

:02:54.:03:01.

been coroborated by UN observers. It all points, many believe, to an

:03:01.:03:07.

ever- more deadly sectarian divide. The exact make-up of Syria's

:03:08.:03:16.

population isn't known. But roughly, 70% are Sunni Muslim Arabs, 12%

:03:16.:03:26.
:03:26.:03:28.

Alawites an offshoot of Shiaism, 9- 10% Kurds, and 6% Christian.

:03:28.:03:31.

Earlier this year Christian leaders told Newsnight they were worried

:03:31.:03:36.

about where the uprising will lead. It is all law Wights, like these in

:03:36.:03:40.

Homs, are the group that have gained most from the Al-Assad

:03:40.:03:49.

family, the all law Wights too, and have the most -- all -- alawites,

:03:49.:03:56.

and have the most to lose. They don't want to spread light on the

:03:56.:03:59.

on going conflict. The regime would like to wrap itself in the Syrian

:03:59.:04:06.

national flag, and doesn't want to expose the sectarian dimension. The

:04:06.:04:10.

revolutionaries don't want the world to perceive the Syrian

:04:10.:04:20.
:04:20.:04:21.

revolution as one between Sunnis versus Alawites. The massacre in

:04:21.:04:27.

Houla is blamed by locals on killers from neighbouring Alawite

:04:27.:04:32.

villages. They call them shabiha, ghosts, the term for thug paid by

:04:32.:04:38.

the regime, most of them are Alawite, it is not clear in Houla

:04:38.:04:42.

whether they were shabiha or not, they are identified, primarily, by

:04:42.:04:51.

their religion. We know them by accent, most of them are Alawite.

:04:51.:04:56.

But these people, you call shabiha, Government thugs, aren't they

:04:56.:05:01.

simply ordinary villagers, neighbours of your's? Yes, yes, our

:05:01.:05:07.

neighbours for 100 years, we ask ourselves, why, why, we live

:05:07.:05:13.

together. We didn't hurt anyone of them, why? Why you stand like that

:05:13.:05:19.

with this regime? Why you kill with him? I find it very hard to believe

:05:19.:05:21.

that someone would accept payment to go and kill women and children.

:05:21.:05:25.

People sometimes get payment to fight, that's normal. But to kill

:05:25.:05:31.

women and children, that reflects a deep-seated hatred for the rival

:05:31.:05:36.

community. It reminds us of what happened in Bosnia, and also what

:05:36.:05:42.

happened in Rwanda. There is a very deep hatred within Syrian society

:05:42.:05:49.

that has been papered over for a long time. Today, the United

:05:49.:05:53.

Nations human rights council condemned Syria for the massacre.

:05:53.:05:58.

Though Syria itself blames anti- Government terrorists. TRANSLATION:

:05:58.:06:03.

It's now a familiar pattern for armed terrorist gangs to carry out

:06:03.:06:06.

massacre, immediately before UN Security Council meetings, or a

:06:06.:06:11.

visit to Damascus by the UN Special Envoy, precisely to lead to special

:06:11.:06:15.

sessions, hostile to Syria, like this one today.

:06:15.:06:20.

But the UN has found no effective way of putting pressure on the Al-

:06:20.:06:29.

Assad regime, despite its warnings of civil war.

:06:29.:06:32.

Outside observers have been predicting civil war in Syria for

:06:32.:06:39.

the best part of a year already, it is an unequal struggle still, that

:06:39.:06:44.

doesn't quite justify that term. The opposition controls no major

:06:44.:06:49.

stretch of territory, it is vastly outgunned by Government forces, and

:06:49.:06:53.

its leadership is riven with political division, while the

:06:53.:06:59.

regime remains remarkably united. The best weapon we have is RB J,

:06:59.:07:06.

made by Russia. This, this used against tanks, what we have from

:07:06.:07:13.

the free army, and their weapons, it is just for defending, our

:07:13.:07:19.

defence, our families. The danger is not even just the

:07:19.:07:23.

civil war within Syria, but then you have to look at who is arming

:07:23.:07:27.

their position, where is the money coming from. And is it likely that

:07:27.:07:34.

a war in Syria will spill over and become a regional conflict.

:07:34.:07:38.

This week's killings can only fuel a cycle of revenge. But it may

:07:38.:07:45.

prove not a tipping point, but just part of the slow descent into chaos.

:07:45.:07:51.

In New York, we have the UN assistant secretary-general for

:07:51.:07:55.

human rights. In Washington we are joined by the former US Defence

:07:55.:07:58.

Secretary, Paul Wolfowitz, and we have the Syrian businessman in

:07:58.:08:03.

favour of regime reform, and not change.

:08:03.:08:07.

Are you absolutely clear that the Syrian Government is, in some cases,

:08:07.:08:14.

deliberately organising the killing of civilians? I am now not

:08:14.:08:20.

referring to this latest incident. For this latest incident the

:08:20.:08:26.

available data pointing out to the responsibility of the pro-regime

:08:27.:08:36.
:08:37.:08:37.

forces, it concerns the use of heavy artillery, but also the

:08:37.:08:45.

alleged activity of the shabiha militia. It has still to be

:08:45.:08:49.

investigated. On previous cases it was established beyond a doubt that

:08:49.:08:53.

there were grave widespread violations of human rights, that

:08:53.:08:57.

may amount to crimes against humanity. That may amount to crimes

:08:57.:09:03.

against humanity, conducted by the regime? By various people acting on

:09:03.:09:10.

behalf of the regime, the crimes of humanity always have their

:09:10.:09:15.

individual perpetrator. Right, but if you believe that there are war

:09:15.:09:19.

criminals, or potentialal war criminals, realistically, what can

:09:19.:09:25.

you do, -- potential war criminals, realistically what can you do, with

:09:25.:09:27.

the International Criminal Court, and Russia not wanting to do, that

:09:27.:09:31.

they are in a pivitol position in the Security Council. In other

:09:31.:09:35.

words, nothing will happen? We did, as the office of human rights,

:09:35.:09:40.

encourage the Security Council to refer the situation in Syria, to

:09:40.:09:47.

the ICC. If I may remind you, that today's resolution of the human

:09:47.:09:52.

rights council, recognise collects the invitation of the High

:09:52.:09:56.

Commisioner to refer the case to the International Criminal Court.

:09:56.:09:59.

don't think anybody is doubting your good faith in this, but when

:09:59.:10:03.

do you actually expect anything to happen, given the position of

:10:03.:10:09.

Russia, which it can use its veto? Russia definitely has a high

:10:09.:10:16.

leverage in Syria. What is important is that this leverage is

:10:16.:10:24.

put to the positive impact on the developments. I think that the

:10:24.:10:29.

votes that were supporting the resolution of the human rights

:10:29.:10:34.

council resolution today are quite indicative. They were there were 41

:10:34.:10:43.

votes for the resolution, just three against, and two abstentions.

:10:43.:10:48.

But -- But those massacres were carried out under what was supposed

:10:48.:10:53.

to be the Kofi Annan ceasefire. You have to accept that the world, full

:10:53.:10:58.

of good intention, can't do it? sharing completely that frustration.

:10:58.:11:03.

The result of such a from us straigs is also the forth coming

:11:03.:11:11.

initiative on -- -- frustration is also the forthcoming initiative on

:11:11.:11:15.

Syria. Joining us from Washington is Paul Wolfowitz, what concrete

:11:15.:11:19.

measures do you think the US do Co Do, if there was a political will

:11:19.:11:25.

to -- could do, if there was a political will to do it, and if the

:11:25.:11:35.
:11:35.:11:39.

Allies would follow? Kofi Annan said a few years back, in the

:11:39.:11:44.

greatest hour of need the world failed Rwanda, the United Nations

:11:44.:11:49.

couldn't muster the will to help them. And after the massacre in

:11:49.:11:52.

Srebrenica, it was said it would forever haunt the United Nations.

:11:52.:11:55.

We have another charade going on, where the international community

:11:55.:11:58.

does nothing, while people were slaughtered. The recent massacre

:11:58.:12:04.

was terrible, but put it in the context of 10,000 personnel killed

:12:04.:12:09.

since all of this began. It is time to say this regime is serious only

:12:09.:12:12.

about killing its people, and until the world gets serious about

:12:12.:12:15.

helping the opposition to organise, the killing won't stop. The key is

:12:15.:12:24.

to stop the killing. That will happen when Assad's killers decide

:12:24.:12:29.

the future doesn't lie with him but with a new regime. The world wants

:12:29.:12:33.

rid of Bashar Al-Assad? That is the problem we are having, the world is

:12:33.:12:36.

very much preoccupied with the removal of President Al-Assad, it

:12:36.:12:41.

is not looking at the prosperity of the Syrian people. The prosperity

:12:41.:12:47.

of the Syrian people would be improved significantly if Mr Assad

:12:47.:12:53.

was not encouraging them to murder his own people? The United Nations

:12:53.:12:56.

sometimes gets it wrong, and with this Houla massacre, we have the

:12:56.:12:59.

names of people killed, we know that the two families targeted and

:13:00.:13:03.

slain in cold blood, are pro- Government families. One of them is

:13:03.:13:07.

the extended family of a newly- elected MP of the region. As you

:13:07.:13:11.

well know it is a pattern of behaviour. Not just this regime,

:13:11.:13:15.

his father, it is family tradition of the Assads, to murder people who

:13:16.:13:24.

get in their way Thousands were killed -- In, thousands were killed

:13:24.:13:32.

in 1982. Why would anyone believe that heavy weapons are being used

:13:32.:13:36.

against people, women and children? The fact of the two families tells

:13:36.:13:40.

you it was not the Government. UN has got it wrong, and you are

:13:40.:13:48.

sitting in London with me and they are in in country? The two families

:13:48.:13:55.

did not fund the rebels or they were part of the newly elected

:13:55.:13:59.

person, people didn't like that. you worry with the sectarian make

:13:59.:14:06.

up of the country, do you worry that any intervention could further

:14:06.:14:09.

destablise things and lead to sectarian warfare? You have

:14:09.:14:13.

sectarian warfare now. You have a civil war right now as one of your

:14:13.:14:18.

speakers said earlier, it is a civil war where only one side is

:14:18.:14:23.

armed. There are very bad outcomes that come out of all of this, the

:14:23.:14:33.
:14:33.:14:33.

longer the bloodshed goes on the worse the bloodshed will be. As

:14:33.:14:38.

long as the world tolerates it and sits on their hands, it will be

:14:38.:14:44.

left to extremists from the outside to come in and radicalise the

:14:44.:14:47.

situation. There is no magic solution, I think it would be a

:14:47.:14:51.

better outcome if the international community, and there are many

:14:51.:14:56.

others besides the United States who I think are ready to step in,

:14:56.:14:59.

notably Turkey and Saudi Arabia. They could come together, not only

:14:59.:15:03.

to strengthen the opposition, which is essential, but also to get them

:15:03.:15:07.

to commit to a subsequent regime that would protect minorities,

:15:07.:15:11.

protect the Christian community, even protect the Alawites. That is

:15:11.:15:16.

what it should be. As you rightly said, stopping the killing,

:15:16.:15:19.

undoubtedly, should be the first priority, in order to dough that,

:15:19.:15:23.

would that take some kind of military activity, safe haven, and

:15:23.:15:29.

perhaps the use of force. That, presumably is what puts the Obama

:15:29.:15:34.

administration off contemplating it? Well, you know, the Bush

:15:34.:15:38.

administration, in 1992, was off contemplating arming the Bosnian,

:15:38.:15:45.

so that conflict went on for three body years. -- bloody years, it sat

:15:45.:15:49.

on its hands while Saddam slaughtered the Shia, and we had

:15:49.:15:56.

him in power for another dozen years. It may seem like the right

:15:56.:16:00.

course, but you pay a heavy price. I think creating conditions where

:16:00.:16:05.

the Syrian army can abandon Assad really should be the objective.

:16:05.:16:09.

Mr Simonovic, do you worry that perhaps the UN people in Syria have

:16:09.:16:14.

got had wrong, and, in fact, some of these massacres are not being

:16:14.:16:18.

carried out by people paid for, or supporting the regime, but the

:16:18.:16:28.
:16:28.:16:29.

result of other kinds of feuds? got from the Syrian Government

:16:29.:16:35.

saying they have proof that the Houla massacre has been committed

:16:35.:16:41.

by the terrorists. But if this is so, why not let the International

:16:41.:16:44.

Commission of Inquiry, which has been established which the human

:16:44.:16:50.

rights council in. And establishing fact beyond any doubt. So I think

:16:50.:16:57.

this is an open invitation to the Government, if they really believe

:16:57.:17:02.

that the truth should be established. To enable

:17:02.:17:05.

international organisations qualified to do so to be active in

:17:05.:17:09.

this way. Mr Simonovic, just want to ask, we are running out of time,

:17:09.:17:13.

I wondered if you fear listening to Mr Wolfowitz there, that we might

:17:13.:17:18.

see another verb nies nieceia and Rwanda, people -- Srebrenica, and

:17:18.:17:22.

people wanting to do things, but not able to do it? What I believe

:17:22.:17:27.

very strongly, is there must be a clear perspective for Syria, for

:17:27.:17:31.

various ethnic groups. And that their human rights must be

:17:31.:17:36.

guaranteeed. There must be power sharing arrangements with the

:17:36.:17:39.

ethnic and religious representations in such an

:17:39.:17:43.

arrangement. I think that the problem of Syria at the moment is

:17:43.:17:50.

that many people feel insecure and this is the reason why we do not

:17:50.:17:54.

succeed in implementing the ceasefire, and other things

:17:54.:17:58.

envisaged in the announcement. Thank you all very much.

:17:58.:18:02.

It was worse than expected, US job figures that sent markets tumbling

:18:02.:18:06.

today. But America's unemployment level would be the envy of some

:18:06.:18:09.

eurozone countries. In particular, Spain, a quarter of the population

:18:09.:18:13.

is now out of work. There is a real sense of apprehension, even fear in

:18:13.:18:15.

Spain, about what might be happening to the country's banks.

:18:15.:18:18.

And whether, after all the problems with Greece, the European Union

:18:18.:18:23.

might be able to offer adequate help, or not. Our Economics Editor

:18:23.:18:29.

is in Seville tonight. How are things there? Gavin, if Spain is

:18:29.:18:34.

now the new frontline of the euro crisis, it is places like this,

:18:34.:18:43.

Seville in the autonomous region of Andrews will you see ya, a poor --

:18:43.:18:50.

Andulucia, a very poor area, if the region's fortunes means knuckling

:18:50.:18:55.

down to what the central Government is telling them to do, the old

:18:55.:18:59.

friend, austerity. The wider issue becomes clear once you stand took

:18:59.:19:06.

in Spain and look at the numbers. The Spanish Government revealed

:19:06.:19:09.

yesterday that 100 billion euros had fled the country, in the first

:19:09.:19:15.

three months of this year. Spain is running a budget deficit at 8.9%,

:19:15.:19:20.

and rising. One troubled bank, Bankia, is now calculated as

:19:20.:19:28.

needing a bail out of 29 billion euros, and the rest of the banking

:19:28.:19:33.

sector, crippled by bad mortgage, needs in secs of 60 billion.

:19:33.:19:39.

Unemployment is 24%, GDP is set to fall 1.7% this year. The European

:19:39.:19:44.

Union has a bail out fund of around 200 billion euros to play with,

:19:44.:19:48.

together with the IMF. Bail out is not a word the Conservative

:19:48.:19:55.

Government in Spain wants to hear. What do you see as absolutely the

:19:55.:20:03.

core problem they face? They face two problems. Two crises. There is

:20:03.:20:07.

the hot crises of the banks, and the old cold crisis of the

:20:07.:20:11.

shrinking economy. Consumer spending here has fallen

:20:11.:20:17.

by 10% in a year. Imagine the effect on shops, on the market

:20:17.:20:20.

stalls, on the cafes behind me on the river front. That is one thing.

:20:20.:20:25.

You can cope with it. If you have to then on top of that do austerity,

:20:25.:20:28.

especially in a place like this, the poor region. It becomes hard,

:20:28.:20:33.

people get sacked, more people get sacked. Now, then you get the banks.

:20:34.:20:42.

One of the bosses of the Spanish banks said today that the situation

:20:42.:20:46.

is absolutely citka. Each time they calculate how much it will cost to

:20:46.:20:51.

bail the banks out it goes up, something has to happen soon.

:20:51.:20:56.

Germany they think maybe Angela Merkel has spent so much political

:20:56.:21:02.

Capaldial and lun -- capital and money on Greece, what else can she

:21:02.:21:06.

do? I think we are a couple of weeks to play with. But this is the

:21:06.:21:10.

problem, actually, what they tried to do this week, what they have

:21:10.:21:14.

mooted. They are in danger of getting a bail out sequence right.

:21:14.:21:18.

First of all, they are trying to do something early, with banking

:21:18.:21:23.

system that is savable. Maybe it is 100 billion, maybe 150 billion,

:21:23.:21:27.

that is safeable, because Europe and the IMF have that money. They

:21:27.:21:30.

are saying, let's pump the money straight into the banks and

:21:30.:21:33.

stablise them. Remember, these are banks of major economies, you can't

:21:33.:21:38.

let them go down. However, that's not what the Germans want to do.

:21:39.:21:42.

That is the problem. It is all, we are back to the two list, things

:21:42.:21:47.

that work, things that are acceptable to Germany. The problem,

:21:47.:21:52.

of course, is if you do pump money straight into banks, you can't then

:21:53.:21:57.

knock on the door of the Prime Minister, Mr Rajoy, and say do a

:21:57.:22:01.

lot of austerity, do what we demand, do more, which is what happened in

:22:01.:22:05.

Greece. We are at a place where the Spanish could redefine what a

:22:05.:22:08.

European bail out means. It is almost led by the country itself.

:22:08.:22:13.

It is a little bit more humane. But the inability to agree on that is

:22:13.:22:18.

what is stopping it. Hold your breath, for a bit. We are not going

:22:18.:22:27.

to get a bail out in the next few days. For the last 12 years

:22:27.:22:30.

Serpentine Gallery Pavilion has commissioned a summer pavilion.

:22:30.:22:36.

They chose the team responsible for bay ying's famous Bird, the artist

:22:36.:22:45.

on that team -- Bird'S Nest stadium. The artist on that team is Ai

:22:45.:22:50.

Weiwei. He's known for his strong and

:22:50.:22:54.

outspoken criticism of the Chinese Government, and also his art. His

:22:54.:22:58.

latest project was Art Under Severe Pressure.

:22:58.:23:02.

The lower level of the pavilion, cut more than a metre deep into the

:23:02.:23:12.

earth, is lined with cork. A nod to the archaeology of its 11

:23:12.:23:19.

predecessors below, it is filled with a shallow water, creating a

:23:19.:23:25.

mirror for the sky. The artist, Ai Weiwei, was not present for the

:23:25.:23:29.

unveiling and the creation of the work. Due to problems back home, he

:23:29.:23:34.

may never see his creation. Because of his criticisms of the Chinese

:23:34.:23:41.

Government, Ai Weiwei has been under constant surveillance and is

:23:41.:23:45.

forbidden from leaving Beijing. He was arrested last year on

:23:45.:23:51.

accusations of tax evasion, and this artist contributed to this

:23:51.:23:56.

extraordinary project, by using Skype. The pavilion's architecture,

:23:56.:23:59.

Ai Weiwei says, is not only about space and shape, but the

:23:59.:24:03.

circumstances we find ourselves in, our mental state. And our political

:24:03.:24:10.

background. Another Chinese Government critic,

:24:10.:24:16.

the blind activist, change change change, has fled the country and

:24:16.:24:22.

taken up an academic post in the United States. He said the Chinese

:24:22.:24:26.

Government is slowly moving on human rights, largely because of

:24:26.:24:30.

the internet and Twitter. He said this from the freedom of exile. The

:24:30.:24:34.

power of social media is something Ai Weiwei deploys in his protests

:24:34.:24:38.

against the Chinese thords, and they, in turn, seek to limb --

:24:38.:24:43.

authorities, and they, in turn, seek to limit his activities. I

:24:43.:24:47.

asked him if there was any chance he could come to London to see his

:24:47.:24:57.
:24:57.:24:57.

work? I would like to come to London, to be able to see it. As an

:24:57.:25:02.

architect we are responsible to what we have been intending to do.

:25:02.:25:10.

And also we would like to see how other people enjoy our art or

:25:10.:25:15.

criticise it. But, of course, my current condition is not allowing

:25:15.:25:20.

me to travel. What's your current condition? What's life like for you

:25:21.:25:29.

every day? My current condition is that my current condition of myself

:25:30.:25:39.
:25:40.:25:42.

is not very clear. It is funny say, it is that I'm still leaving --

:25:43.:25:50.

living under house arrest. It is kind of probation, but I never

:25:51.:25:59.

really faced formal arrest or formal accusations. That's my

:25:59.:26:05.

current condition, which forbids me to travel. My action has been

:26:05.:26:11.

carefully watched. By the authorities. My phone was tapped.

:26:11.:26:16.

You know, all my activities are regulated.

:26:16.:26:20.

Life is not very easy. In terms of your art, how important is Twitter

:26:20.:26:29.

as a medium for your art. You have a massive following on Twitter?

:26:29.:26:39.
:26:39.:26:39.

course all my internet activity is forbidden. But I still manage to

:26:39.:26:49.
:26:49.:26:51.

jump on computer, in China you have to get on through -- twitter is not

:26:51.:26:55.

allowed in China, you have to get on through special technology, so I

:26:55.:27:00.

can do that. I can focus on other art activities. Do you think the

:27:00.:27:03.

west is doing enough to encourage these trends in China, or is the

:27:03.:27:10.

west rather frightened to speak out, because of China's economic power?

:27:10.:27:19.

Yes, this is a very clear phenomenon of the west. Also the

:27:19.:27:29.
:27:29.:27:30.

west should remember to promote and to protect the basic rights, and to

:27:30.:27:37.

insist on human rights. It was said in New York yesterday that there

:27:37.:27:43.

was optimisim that things would get better in China, do you share that?

:27:43.:27:53.
:27:53.:27:54.

We all share the same hope. Within China it is changing, and there

:27:54.:28:03.

will be more dramatic changes. I don't think any state can

:28:03.:28:09.

sacrifice those very essential ways, like freedom of expression, or

:28:09.:28:19.
:28:19.:28:21.

freedom of communication, to achieve real social development. We

:28:21.:28:27.

can see China today, still lacking of creativity, still lacking of

:28:27.:28:37.
:28:37.:28:43.

real competition, trying to get its values from very short-sighted acts.

:28:43.:28:47.

It is not going to be a long lasting result.

:28:47.:28:57.
:28:57.:28:58.

As you know, Cenvancheng has left China, are you going to remain?

:28:58.:29:03.

still Chinese, I still have to solve the problem here, in China.

:29:03.:29:12.

Despite the difficulties you face every day? Yes, those difficulties

:29:12.:29:19.

are sometimes severe and unbearable. But still, it gives some meaning to

:29:19.:29:27.

be here. Because those difficulties are not only to me, but also to a

:29:27.:29:34.

lot of people here. Thank you very much.

:29:34.:29:38.

For a word about what's coming up on the review show after Newsnight,

:29:38.:29:43.

here is Kirsty. With almost as much fanfare as the

:29:43.:29:49.

Jubilee, Ridley Scott's return to sci-fi after many years with

:29:49.:29:53.

Prometheus. I will speak to Tracey Emin about her exhibition in

:29:53.:29:57.

Margate. We will talk about elite Olympic athletes, and tracing the

:29:57.:30:03.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS