14/06/2012 Newsnight


14/06/2012

Newsnight analyses the political damage to David Cameron after his appearance before the Leveson Inquiry. Plus, the latest on the Bank of England's plans to boost the UK economy.


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Transcript


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Tonight pl, Cameron at Leveson, how the Chipping Norton set and their

:00:17.:00:26.

colleagues didn't do. And Rebekah Brooks and the text. I'm rooting

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for you, not just personally, but professionally we are in this

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together, and there was an exclammation mark and "yes he Cam".

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My guests are here, what damage has this done to David Cameron.

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While the Newsnight political panel analyse the fall-out from this

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week's parade the leaders on the stand. Hundreds of witnesses, reems

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of document, millions of pounds, ten months duration, and counting,

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will there be any lasting heritage from Leveson.

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My guests join me. Also tonight, will the Government

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and the Bank of England's roll of the dice to boost the UK economy

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actually work. And Paul Mason looks at the desperation putting Greece

:01:14.:01:19.

into the arms of the far left Syriza Party.

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When a party of Marxists, radical greens and feminists, is getting

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votes from farmers three hours into the mountains of Athens, something

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is going on. Good evening t may be a piece of

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correspondence that he regrets ever receiving, because contained in

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just 84 words are a set of phrases and connection that is could be

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seen as defining David Cameron's time as Prime Minister. It was, by

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default, the centre piece of his five-hour appearance in front of

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Lord Leveson. You can bet your bottom dollar, that when Mr Cameron

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set up the inquiry, he had no idea this short text would ping into the

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public domain. Previously in court 73.

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We have had Rebekah Brooks. "LOL", lots of love. Murdoch mur. We had

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no alternative, but to make war on your company. Gordon Brown? This

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conversation never took place. Nick Clegg? I was at the end of the

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table where the children sit. the executive producer, the man who

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gave us this show, made his own appearance. It is on our screens

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now. It is not often you get to see a serving Prime Minister taking the

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oath in court. This week pl, Cameron's predecessor as Prime

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Minister sat in the same chair and abused him of doing a deal with

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Rupert Murdoch. Of course, I wanted to win over newspapers, and other

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journalist, editors, proprietors, and I worked very hard at that,

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because I wanted to communicate what the Conservative Party and the

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leadership could do for the country. I made that argument. I didn't do

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it on the basis of saying, either overtly or covertly, saying that

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your support will mean I will give awe better time on this or that

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policy. Of course the Sun did give the Conservatives its endorsement

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in December of 2009, Labour's lost it" of the headline. If gave the

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Conservatives massive boost going into their conference this week. A

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conference where they introduced the world to this slogan. We are

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all in this together. From the day after that speech, the inquiry saw

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evidence of the close relationship between David Cameron and Rebekah

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Brooks. It was taex that Mrs Brookes sent to Mr Cameron, it was

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the eve of his big conference speech. The text talk about meeting

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for a meal. It seemed Mrs Cameron had dep but

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advertised for her husband attending a News International

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The phrase, "but because professionally we're definitely in

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this together ". What was your understanding of that? I think that

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is about the Sun had made this decision to back the Conservatives,

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to part company with Labour, and so the Sun wanted to make sure it was

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helping the Conservative Party put its best foot forward, with the

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policies we were announcing, the speech I was going to make and all

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the rest of it. I think that is what that means.

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So the adverb "professionally", is covering the fact that the Sun and

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you were bound together, to some extent. I think what it means as

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she put it, we are friends, but professionally, me as leader of the

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Conservative Party, her in newspapers, we were going to be

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pushing the same political agenda. And the "country supper" she refers

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to. Sort of in a forward-looking way, is that the sort of

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interaction you often had with her? Yes, we are neighbours.

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Mr Cameron was also asked about his decision to hire Andy Coulson as

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Downing Street's Director of Communications. It wasn't, he told

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the inquiry, principally to forge closer links with News

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International. If what lies behind the question,

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were you after a News International executive, because this is going to

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make it easier to win over the News of the World, or whatever, no, that

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wasn't the calculation. Mr Cameron was also quizzed at length about

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his decision to give the job of deciding the BSkyB bid to the

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Culture Secretary, Jeremy Hunt. Despite the fact that Mr Hunt had

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already made his views clear, that he supported BSkyB being taken over

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by News Corp. The decision had to be made in something of a hurry.

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Vince Cable did have the job, but he was secretly recorded saying he

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had declared war on Rupert Murdoch. As Culture Secretary, Jeremy Hunt

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would have been the natural person to take on the role. But he was

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known as a Murdoch supporter. The Government's top lawyer, Simon

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Jenkins, was on leave at the time. He -- Paul Jenkins, was on leave at

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:06:43.:06:50.

the time, he gave his opinion over However, it turns out, that when Mr

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Jenkins cleared Jeremy Hunt to decide the bid, he hadn't been told

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about a rather chummy text message, that Jeremy Hunt had sent to James

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Murdoch in support of the bid. "congratulations on Brussels, just

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Ofcom to go", it said. Nor was he told about a note he had written to

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the Prime Minister, warning that if they block it, the bid, the media

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sector, will suffer for years. contention is what is in the

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private note is not really different to what he said publicly

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indeed what he said publicly is more effusive. I think it is note-

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worthy that we have now got this witness statement from Paul Jenkins,

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the Government lawyer, who says very clearly "skap I'm quite clear

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that my advice to Sir Gus would have been any different had I seen

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the note at the time ". I accept there is proves, but the backing

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two of permanent secretaries and lawyer is quite a strong state of

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affairs. Although Mr Cameron commissioned

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this blockbuster series, doesn't get to write the script. Today was

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embarrassing, perhaps rather than explosives. Even so, the

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cliffhanger we have been left with, how much, if any, damage has been

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done. To talk about the Prime Minister's

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appearance today, with me are the Conservative Deputy Chairman,

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Michael Fallon, and Tom Watson, the Labour member of the culture select

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committee. Fallon, first of all, the phrase -- Michael Fallon, first

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of all, the phrase from Rebekah Brooks's text "we're all in this

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together", that was made and we thought it was for us, but it was,

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the Prime Minister, David Cameron, and the Chipping Norton set?

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made that point, we were all in this together, and they were. When

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they decided to back the Conservative Party, the leader of

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the party and the editor of the newspaper were in in together.

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the Chipping Norton set were in it with News International, is the

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point we make. What is a country supper? I don't know, if it is an

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embarrassment this text, it is to Rebekah Brooks, she sent it, not

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David Cameron. Obviously he and she knows what a country supper is,

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whether you do or not, this is an intimate gathering? They live quite

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close to each other. Her husband has been a friend of David

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Cameron's for 20-30 years, they see each other at weekends. That

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doesn't prove anything. Is it outlandish to say she had a hand in

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the speech that came the next day? Yes t the paper had only just

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decided to put its weight behind the Conservatives. It is

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uncomfortable? For her. It is also for David Cameron? Why, he had been

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trying to win over the support of the newspapers, he has been trying

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to win over the support of all the other newspapers. That is why we

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chose him as leader, it is his job. It wasn't friendship, it was one-

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sided friendship, it was not a two- way street, it was Rebekah Brooks

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courting David Cameron she was a friend of her husband's foreyears,

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and there is no mystery about. That he was on the stand for five hours

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today. He answered every single question, if this text is all you

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can come up with, I don't think that is sufficient evidence of some

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conspiracy. The point s the text, as embarrassing as it is, it might

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be uncomfortable, but, in fact, there was no smoking gun, no

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problem about the News International bid for BSkyB. We

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heard today it had actually followed what should have happened,

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Cable was then followed by Jeremy Hunt, there was no problem. Michael

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is right on, that the text was deeply embarrassing, and showed the

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closeness of the relationship. Where I was more disappointed today

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was the fact that David Cameron seemed lukewarm on the process. And

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wasn't prepared sketch out his ideas about what reform would look

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like. My fear for in the last few weeks, is that the coalition are

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beginning to go cold on Leveson. I think he really owes the Dowler

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family and the country a greater explanation about what he intends

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do when Leveson reports. It will be interesting because Lawrence

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Leveson will not be keen to hear. That your suggestion will be that

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nothing much will come out of it, simply because David Cameron didn't

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show his colours today? You know I think everyone now knows they were

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very close. We just saw mores conversation of that today. More

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woreing -- more confirmation that have today. More worryingly, we are

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seeing PR people saying unless Leveson deals with this over the

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Internet it will be flawed. This strikes me as the beginnings of the

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Government to go kopbld it and put it into the long -- cold on this,

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and put it into the long grass. That would be a betrayal. He missed

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the opportunity to restate the case for Leveson. Looking at one of the

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other major topics of conversation today on Andy Coulson. Don't you

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and other Conservative MPs feel kind of let down by David Cameron

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over this. Now we know he wanted to get to the part of the country he

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couldn't really get to. That is why he hired Coulson. There were four

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other candidates. This was not only a mistake, it was an error of

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judgment? With hindsight all these things look easier. At the time he

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sought assurances from Andy Coulson, he got assurances from Andy Coulson.

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The same ashourpbss were given to parliament. They were given to --

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assurances were given to parliament. They were goifrpb a court of law.

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If it turns out those -- given to a court of law. If it turns out those

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assurances were false, that was down to Andy Coulson. It was

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incredibly regretable that when you wanted to get on and bring on

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policies, the Coulson affair was hijacking what you were promoting?

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That is correct. That is why we have gone forward with the inquiry

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to find a better way forward for these issues. What was striking by

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the Prime Minister's evidence today is he finished talking about the

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Dowler case. To show this isn't just about celebrities and people

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who can afford lawyers, but we need a situation where we have a system

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that provides redress to families like the Dowlers and others. Even

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the almost always patient Lord Leveson said last month he was

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ready to go back to productive judicial work. His phrase. That may

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be some way off. There are still many more witnesss to hear from.

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And then the judge has to think deep thoughts.

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Since David Cameron established the Leveson Inquiry last July, it has

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already cost more than �2 million. There have been over 300 witnesses

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in the hot seat, and the publication of 500 pieces of

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evidence, since the father and mother of murdered schoolgirl,

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Milly Dowler gave evidence in front of Lord Leveson in November.

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felt like such an intrusion into a really, really private grief moment.

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They include three former prime ministers, six cabinet ministers, a

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host of celebrities, and even a splash of TV presenters. Most

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facing Lord Leveson's attack job, chief inquisitor, Robert Jay.

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are formally presenting this as your evidence to our inquiry.

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cameras were installed in court 73 in the Royal Court of justice to

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broadcast the hearings worldwide, as only court participants and 14

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members of the public are allowed actually to sit in. The testimony

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is due to end in July, although the judge's report is not expected

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until the Autumn. Here to discuss the legacy of the Leveson qieorny

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are a former editor of the Times, Simon Jenkins, phone hacking victim,

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Abi Titmuss, ex-tabloid reporter, Richard Peppiatt, and the Labour MP

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culture select committee member. From what we saw today, Simon

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Jenkins, of the awkward closeness, between politician and journalist,

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is that in itself not a good subject from the Leveson Inquiry to

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air. We need to hear about these things, don't we? We need to hear

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about them, we have heard about them for several months. It is not

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unusual, nothing knew about it. It is worth knowing about things that

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were probably hidden and should be brought into the open. I have no

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problem with that at all. I think it is great pity an opportunity is

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going lost. This is being run as a show trial for the Murdochs, but

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honestly if there is serious things to discuss about journalistic

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ethics you need to be balanced about it. It shouldn't be a court

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of law t should be a seminar, or committee of inquiry, rather than

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this take-dog figure, going for everyone in a Richard Nixon way.

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be fair, it is not just Murdoch in the frame, the conversation is

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about other newspapers as well? Hardly, you could be forgiven for

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thinking this is a show trial of the Murdoch empire. The Murdoch

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empire was trying to exert political pressure, no doubt about

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t every newspaper does and every proprietor has. Is that what you

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think? It's him just defending Rupert Murdoch. There is Richard

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Peppiatt talking about what toxic tabloid journalism is really like,

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Abi Titmuss here has been attacked. This is PR from the media people.

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Abi Titmuss, your phone was hacked, you took a settlement. Do you feel

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that watching this inquiry we are actually getting something that is

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productive and will make a change, or are you, perhaps, of the mind

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that it will go away, it will just be the same. There was an inquiry

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20 years ago and nothing really changed? I imagine Lord Leveson

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feels the weight of history on his shoulders at the moment. I imagine

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he's keen to make changes. That is the right thing. When it comes to

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press regulation, that is a very difficult question, I think free

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press is vital for democracy. For example, obvious low the media give

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me the information I need to vote, but, therefore, for me, what I

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would like to see regulated is the relationship between press and

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politician, the leaders and the media owners, I would like that to

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be formal and transparent. In your own case, I think you talked about

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it as being one part toxic co- dependency your relationships with

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the tabloids. Did you feel in any way, not that you were complicit,

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but you were in a game? You even if the Faustian pact that Steve kooing

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began was referring. To when I talk about this subject, I start about

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saying, yes I have a relationship with the press, I still do I

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embraced it to begin with to a certain extent. You courted them?

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They came to me I wouldn't say to start off with I courted them. I

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didn't have a choice that they hacked my own or followed me and

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took my picture -- my phone, and they followed me and took my

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picture. I tried to take some sort of control over it. It came toxic

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co-dependance, it was symbiotic. It is very different now. Do you think

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it has changed, the whole question of the relationship between

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celebrities and the red tops? fascinating seeing some of the

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defences put forward by the tabloid editors, picture desks, saying a

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lot of the paparazzi pictures are set up, and the stories are set up.

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What I don't seem to recognise is when you are presenting a story in

:18:10.:18:13.

a newspaper, if it is set up, and you are not admitting to the reader,

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you are lying to them. You are pretending something is happening

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that is not. This isn't news, this is entertainment. That is an

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entertainment product. There needs to be a distinction drawn between

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proper public interest journalism and entertainment. The problem for

:18:28.:18:32.

the public is trust has gone in many ways, not only of politician,

:18:32.:18:36.

but of newspapers. That, in a declining market, is a pretty awful

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thing. Leveson n a sense, has exposed that lack of trust.

:18:41.:18:47.

I think he has. Tom's select committee did a bit of work on.

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That it became ludicrous to the extreme, I'm not a PR man for the

:18:52.:18:57.

Murdoch press, but for the Guardian, I resent the suggestion I am. The

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only way to conduct the debate t seems, that if Tom disagrees with t

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they are hack for the Murdochs. Let's go back to your point. There

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is a real chance here of trying to get a Code of Practise for

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journalist, I don't think it can be handled statutoryly, we tried it on

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a previous committee and we didn't succeed. The Calcot committee, that

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set up the press complaints committee, it was right to say, if

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this is not working in 18 months, we will look at it again. Here we

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are 0 years later, they never looked at it -- 20 years later,

:19:31.:19:36.

they nevered at it again? That was the third committee. Can you make a

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voluntary code? Can you make a code, and plead with a new press

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complaints commity. That is what will happen any way. Plead with

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them to be more tough on journalist, more independent and all of that.

:19:48.:19:53.

You can pass a law and set autopsy quango to run the press, it is not

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on. You are setting up a false dichotomy, with the greatest

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respect. This is not a decision between statutory regulation and a

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free-for-all. There is a huge grey area. Let's be clear, you are in

:20:06.:20:10.

favour of statutory regulation? in favour of a statutory

:20:10.:20:12.

underpinning of regulation independent of Government, and of

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the press. It will have members of the press involved with it, but

:20:16.:20:22.

there is statutory balances to make sure that politicians cannot

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interfere with the freedom of the press. Let's not forget that proper

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regulatory system will protect journalists as much as the public.

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It will mean the excesses we have seen, where journalists feel

:20:35.:20:39.

pressure today do immoral and illegal things won't occur because

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there won't be the pressure within the companies themselves. I think

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that is possible. There needs to be a Press Complaints Commission,

:20:46.:20:49.

which is the mediator, between the complaints and the press. There

:20:49.:20:55.

need to be a body overseeing the professionalism of journalism.

:20:55.:20:58.

is why it is so important to have the inquiry, and it is worth having.

:20:58.:21:01.

I spoke to people, knowing I was coming on the show, the general

:21:01.:21:05.

public are bored with it, they think it is all about celebrities

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whose phones have been hacked, who are getting settlements, as you

:21:09.:21:13.

mentioned. It is bring to go the attention issues pertinent to all

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of us, which is the power of media owners and the relationship between

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press and politicians. In a democratic society we should be

:21:22.:21:25.

concerned. Isn't there danger the public will be turned away from the

:21:25.:21:28.

politicians and the press, and there has to be a positive outcome,

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would that positive outcome for you be statutory legislation. I think

:21:33.:21:36.

Richard nailed it on the head. Independent regulation. The goal

:21:37.:21:40.

should be that. We are meant to have independent regulation at the

:21:40.:21:45.

moment? We haven't any regulation, we might be reaching a consensus

:21:45.:21:49.

here. The goal should be to oblige an editor to put a matter right

:21:49.:21:52.

when they have made a mistake, or deliberately done something wrong.

:21:52.:21:57.

The remedy is slightly harder to find, but it is not beyond the wit

:21:57.:22:00.

of man do that. It is very difficult. We are looking for the

:22:00.:22:04.

same thing. We are trying to find some way of making journalists to

:22:04.:22:07.

behave more responsibly when they do their work. Nobody has any

:22:07.:22:12.

quarrel with that. They are up against fierce competitive forces,

:22:12.:22:16.

and actresses and politicians, keen to get on with them in various ways,

:22:16.:22:20.

it is extremely difficult to regulate these relationships. I

:22:20.:22:23.

genuinely believe you won't get there. You won't get a law that

:22:23.:22:26.

makes any sense here. All you can get is some form of discipline,

:22:26.:22:30.

that has to be self-discipline, out of the system you have at the

:22:30.:22:36.

moment. It will be another version of now. It really won't make much

:22:36.:22:40.

difference? I don't think so. you believe after all these months,

:22:40.:22:47.

Lord Leveson must be head in hands listening to this discussion. He

:22:47.:22:51.

wants proper judicial work hast to sit through these endless witnesses.

:22:51.:22:55.

It will be much more than �2 million at the end? If all the

:22:55.:22:58.

money, wasted by Government, I would happily see an inquiry every

:22:58.:23:03.

other year into some element of our political process. I think we have

:23:03.:23:09.

more insight, as a public, into how the machinations of Westminster,

:23:09.:23:14.

how decisions get made, than we have in decades of parliament.

:23:14.:23:17.

have greater participation in democracy because of it do you

:23:17.:23:21.

think? I think so. I think it is refresh to go see when newspapers

:23:21.:23:25.

editors are sending lots of love to prime ministers. This we should

:23:25.:23:30.

know about. I think it is brilliant. I think Lord Leveson put it

:23:30.:23:34.

beautifully in the start of the inquiry, saying who guards the

:23:34.:23:38.

guardians. Do you think it will make any difference, Simon is being

:23:38.:23:42.

cynical here, but doesn't actually think the Leveson Inquiry will make

:23:42.:23:46.

any difference? I hope so. It will take radical and robust proposals

:23:46.:23:50.

all parties can rally behind, I hope he can do it. People were

:23:50.:23:55.

doing far worse things in the 1980s than now. Journalists were doing

:23:55.:23:57.

worse, the relationship between journalists and politicians was

:23:57.:24:02.

closer and more venal. The BBC was getting into bed with politician,

:24:02.:24:06.

and the lawyers getting into bed with politicians. I'm all for

:24:06.:24:09.

exposing things, I agree with Richard to this extent. It wasn't

:24:09.:24:14.

that bad this time. This is not just all about what we are hearing

:24:14.:24:17.

today about David Cameron there were other former prime ministers,

:24:17.:24:19.

including Gordon Brown earlier this week. And then Gordon Brown

:24:20.:24:23.

insisting that there were no briefings, his relationships were

:24:23.:24:28.

all sweet and light. And yet, people were saying, really? Murdoch

:24:28.:24:32.

asked John Major to switch his policy on Europe. Tom you worked in

:24:32.:24:35.

Downing Street when Gordon Brown was there? I didn't do press

:24:35.:24:37.

briefings. The interesting thing for me is every Prime Minister that

:24:37.:24:44.

has been in front of Leveson has denied what, Tony Blair, Alastair

:24:44.:24:47.

Campbell, Gordon Brown denied Damian McBride, David Cameron

:24:47.:24:53.

denied Andy Coulson. They are all at it, then? They should know what

:24:53.:24:57.

their spin doctors are doing in their name. It is pretty

:24:57.:25:01.

inreceivable that they don't? is for them to -- Inconceivable

:25:01.:25:07.

that they don't? That is for them to say, but it is pretty

:25:07.:25:09.

inconceivable. The Chancellor and the governor of the Bank of England

:25:09.:25:13.

announced today they were working together today on an �80 billion

:25:13.:25:17.

pot for lending. Speaking at the Mansion House event, they plan to

:25:17.:25:20.

kick start lending to households and businesses within weeks,

:25:21.:25:25.

through an emergency bank funding scheme. Under the proposal British

:25:25.:25:28.

banks will be offered vital funding at low interest rates, but the

:25:28.:25:32.

money will be linked to bank lending performance. The governor

:25:32.:25:36.

and I will take co-ordinated action on liquidity and funding for new

:25:36.:25:40.

bank lending, in order to inject new confidence into our financial

:25:40.:25:43.

system. And support the flow of credit into where it is needed in

:25:43.:25:47.

the real economy. We are not powerless in the face of the

:25:47.:25:52.

eurozone debt storm. Together we can deploy new fire power to defend

:25:52.:26:00.

our economy from the crisis on our doorstep.

:26:00.:26:03.

We have Allegra Stratton and our Economics Editor with us, Paul

:26:03.:26:08.

Mason, what do you think of it? What is the thinking behind this?

:26:08.:26:13.

One newspaper tomorrow is saying Mervyn King is pressing the panic

:26:13.:26:17.

button. It is not quite that. But people in Government are scared of

:26:17.:26:21.

the effects of Sunday's election in Greece and what it could do to the

:26:21.:26:24.

eurozone and how it would affect our economy, because 40% of our

:26:24.:26:27.

trade is with the continent. It has already had problems. They are

:26:27.:26:30.

announcing tonight a new way of getting money directly out. They

:26:30.:26:33.

had reports for a long time now that small businesses weren't

:26:34.:26:37.

getting lending. Equally mortgages were not passing on the low rates

:26:37.:26:40.

to people. It is an attempt to get it on the treat. If quanative

:26:40.:26:44.

easing was about the same initials of the Queen of England, I would

:26:44.:26:47.

like to think this is the Prince William version. It is much more

:26:47.:26:51.

and they are trying to get it out on to the streets to make it more

:26:51.:26:55.

modern. If it hadn't been for Sunday's elections, all those

:26:55.:26:58.

people, small business, and people with mortgages, would have been

:26:58.:27:03.

banging on for months and not getting results? I think these

:27:03.:27:08.

things were in train, this is a summer of great announcements,

:27:08.:27:12.

somebody said there would be four, it is all the same principle, how

:27:12.:27:15.

do you get much more activity out on to the streets. At the moment it

:27:15.:27:19.

is hogged in the bank and out in the weird computerised money, not

:27:19.:27:27.

thriel in people's pockets. Also, there is a sense -- in people's

:27:27.:27:30.

pockets. Also there is a sense they have to knock each other's heads

:27:30.:27:34.

together and get on with it. We are joined by Paul, filming in Athens.

:27:35.:27:40.

Do you think this will work? Chancellor is doing two things

:27:40.:27:43.

today, and Mervyn King together with him. The first thing is to

:27:43.:27:48.

pump ready cash into the banking system. �5 billion a month, �30

:27:48.:27:52.

billion over six months. That is the equivalent of inflating an air

:27:52.:27:55.

bag in car before the crash happens. We know what the crash will be,

:27:56.:27:59.

here in Athens, whoever wins the election, nobody thinks Greece can

:27:59.:28:03.

do what it is supposed to do under the bail out. The eurozone is

:28:03.:28:06.

facing a pretty decisive moment pretty soon. That is what that is

:28:07.:28:10.

for. The other thing, the bank printing money and lending it to

:28:10.:28:14.

banks so, the banks can swap their bad detects for some good money,

:28:14.:28:18.

and then lend some more. That is what is talked about. That is there

:28:18.:28:22.

to solve a different problem. That problem is the existing policy is

:28:22.:28:26.

not working. The Project Merlin, supposed to get banks lending to

:28:26.:28:29.

small businesses and lending mortgages, is clearly not doing

:28:29.:28:32.

enough for the Chancellor. The other thing this policy is supposed

:28:32.:28:36.

to do, is fill the gap that fiscal policy can't. Obviously the

:28:36.:28:41.

Government is terrified of one thing, that is that we get dragged

:28:41.:28:45.

into this whirlpool of downgrades and counter downgrades that the

:28:45.:28:48.

rest of Europe is undergoing. It is the last moment when the Government

:28:48.:28:53.

thinks it can move on tax and spend. It has to get Mervyn King to move

:28:53.:28:57.

on printing money and doing something creative with it. The

:28:57.:29:02.

problem is, though it doesn't affect Britain's triple-A rating t

:29:02.:29:06.

says that the Bank of England is strong enough to say a bit of risky

:29:06.:29:12.

lending with its own money. That is a kind of unknown ter treatment we

:29:12.:29:19.

wouldn't be in it unless we were expect -- territory, we wouldn't be

:29:19.:29:22.

in it unless we are expecting dire events from Europe. This money is

:29:22.:29:26.

getting out there fast? You say, that there is no detail to the plan.

:29:26.:29:31.

On the bigger scheme, the �80 billion is what they are talking

:29:31.:29:35.

about. The liquidity they can get out fast. The �80 billion to

:29:35.:29:39.

restart bank lend to go small businesses and households, we have

:29:39.:29:42.

-- lending to small businesss and households, we have to see the

:29:42.:29:46.

detail. The Treasury couldn't explain tonight how the money would

:29:46.:29:56.

be swamped from the banks to banks. Is this an admission that Project

:29:56.:30:01.

Merlin has failed? This is pulling out all the stops on Plan A. This

:30:01.:30:05.

is using the hard-won fiscal authority, to get money through to

:30:05.:30:09.

businesses that we needed. That is the suggestion, that you hadn't

:30:09.:30:13.

been pulling out the stops up until now? The economic environment is

:30:13.:30:15.

deteriorating around the globe. We are facing more instability in

:30:15.:30:19.

Greece, we have to work harder at Plan A. But we have the chance to

:30:19.:30:24.

do that now. This wasn't in Plan A. Isn't that the point, you are

:30:24.:30:27.

stretching Plan A, just so you can't call it Plan B? We can

:30:27.:30:31.

stretch it because of the hard-won fiscal credibility. For two years

:30:31.:30:35.

we built it up. We have a stronger balance sheet, now we can deploy

:30:35.:30:40.

that to help the banks get more money through. The other thing had

:30:40.:30:43.

a has changed is the banks are finding it more expensive to borrow

:30:43.:30:47.

on the international market, at the same time they have to stack more

:30:47.:30:51.

capital up for regulatory purposes. The money isn't getting through to

:30:51.:30:55.

home owners who need it and businesses. Paul Mason said it

:30:55.:31:00.

wouldn't affect Britain's credit rating, but does it reveal tonight

:31:00.:31:03.

how worried George Osborne and the governor of the Bank of England,

:31:03.:31:07.

Mervyn King, are? It is an understanding that the economic

:31:07.:31:12.

outlook is deteriorating for this country. We trade enormously with

:31:12.:31:14.

the eurozone. There is more instability there. We have to do

:31:14.:31:17.

everything we can to keep Britain safe through the storm. That means

:31:17.:31:21.

making sure that businesses can get the money they need, not just small

:31:21.:31:25.

businesses, but all businesses, and home owners can get the mortgages

:31:25.:31:28.

they need. How long will you give it before you decide it works or

:31:28.:31:33.

not? The scheme is decided to be up and run anything few weeks. If it

:31:33.:31:39.

increases the stock of running in a few weeks. It increases the stock

:31:39.:31:43.

of lending and if we can get it running this year it should make a

:31:43.:31:49.

difference. Today Paul ventured far from Athens to a village to see

:31:49.:31:57.

what hopes Tierney have -- tis it is have of picking up the --

:31:57.:32:04.

Ahtisaari to see what they have -- For this man the decisions are

:32:04.:32:10.

usually measured in kilos. Kilos of hey, which is expensive, kilos of

:32:10.:32:16.

beef which he rears, but finds hard to sell. This is deep Greece. The

:32:16.:32:25.

mountains of this. Essili, a Greece res nant with the past, and from

:32:25.:32:30.

from which the parties draw their history. Something is happening in

:32:30.:32:35.

the small squares, deep discontent. TRANSLATION: People are desperate,

:32:35.:32:38.

they can't take it any more. We think Tsipras can do things

:32:38.:32:43.

differently let's see what he has to offer. He's never been in power

:32:43.:32:52.

before. TRANSLATION: We are a generation that should be peaking

:32:52.:32:57.

now, if I had known this would happen I would never have gotten

:32:57.:33:00.

married, I'm very worried about them. Most of the young farmers I

:33:00.:33:04.

spoke to in this village said they would spoke for the far left party

:33:04.:33:08.

Tsipras, but more out of desperation than conviction.

:33:08.:33:11.

TRANSLATION: Greece could be out of the euro, which we don't want. But

:33:12.:33:18.

we have to vote for him, because in the last 20 years of PASOK and New

:33:18.:33:23.

Democracy, we saw nothing good. Now let's see what happens.

:33:23.:33:28.

Now, hi no idea they were going to say that. In fact, I came here

:33:28.:33:32.

thinking they would say the exact opposite. But when a party of

:33:32.:33:36.

Marxists, radical greens and feminists, is getting votes from

:33:36.:33:40.

farmers, through hours into the mountains, away from Athens,

:33:40.:33:49.

something is going on. Tsipras's rise has been spectacular,

:33:49.:33:52.

a coalition of the radical left, they never scored more than 5%

:33:52.:34:02.
:34:02.:34:02.

until the crisis. In the may election they scored 17%,

:34:03.:34:07.

and this man, Alexis Tsipras, came the figure head to resistance to

:34:07.:34:12.

austerity. Now they are polling as high as 27%. And within a few

:34:12.:34:19.

percentage points of power. But what would a Syriza Government

:34:20.:34:24.

do? In the first place rip up the bail out deal agreed in March and

:34:24.:34:28.

then says the party's economics expert, tax the rich. For the next

:34:28.:34:31.

four years we want to introduce measures to increase public

:34:31.:34:35.

receipts by 1% a year at least. Raising taxes? Raising taxes.

:34:35.:34:42.

all income tax? It will be income taxes, wealth taxes. It will be

:34:42.:34:46.

taxes on, I don't know, even the church, this Channel Tunnel doesn't

:34:46.:34:51.

pay. What is the Greek word for "goodbye ", as the rich and middle-

:34:51.:34:56.

class leave the one? Well. there is only one answer to capital

:34:56.:35:00.

flight and it is taboo? Capital controls. Would you introduce

:35:00.:35:03.

capital controls to prevent capital flight? You need to introduce

:35:03.:35:09.

capital controls, and all kinds of measures to stop these, the

:35:09.:35:13.

reaction. But capital controls in the eurozone are only legal for

:35:13.:35:17.

security reasons. The Greek left is well aware that would prompt a

:35:17.:35:23.

clash with the euro authorities? we are push today the precipice, we

:35:23.:35:29.

will have to default. If you default you will be forced out of

:35:29.:35:33.

the eurozone? Is it better to default under a left-wing or right

:35:33.:35:39.

left-wing Government. We have Once Seen a Government of Marxist eco

:35:39.:35:46.

radical feminists in the eurozone? To put your mind at rest, we are

:35:46.:35:51.

mild in those things. We are for peaceful change.

:35:51.:35:57.

Greek political commentators believe the Syriza vote is not just

:35:57.:36:01.

left-wing voters moving further left, it is something more

:36:01.:36:05.

emotional. The young people are turning massively towards Syriza,

:36:05.:36:10.

older ones like me tend to go with old parties. But it is people

:36:10.:36:15.

feeling desperate as things evolve in Greece. It is a vote of grief,

:36:15.:36:21.

rather than a vote of anger. People feel helpless, they feel

:36:21.:36:26.

abandoned. So they feel that somebody has stood up for them.

:36:26.:36:31.

This somebody is Syriza. nowhere is that clearer than in the

:36:31.:36:35.

mountains and the villages that many urban Greek also return to

:36:35.:36:40.

this weekend, to cast their votes. It was the small businessmen who

:36:40.:36:44.

formed the backbone of the old political system. Many of them,

:36:44.:36:49.

like this man, feel they have been ruined by the bail out programme,

:36:49.:36:55.

and they despair of politics. will vote more just to say

:36:55.:37:00.

something, for example I will vote Syriza just to say that I don't

:37:00.:37:08.

want these measures any more. This is not working. We need to grow our

:37:08.:37:13.

economy. But you don't believe in the party itself? No, no, no, no.

:37:13.:37:18.

And private polls indicate that Greeks going to this election with

:37:18.:37:23.

a tight margin, between the mainstream and Marxism.

:37:23.:37:26.

We apologise for the technical problems with that film.

:37:26.:37:30.

Gordon Brown, George Osborne, John Major, Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg,

:37:30.:37:34.

Alex Salmond, and today, David Cameron, all got a grilling at the

:37:34.:37:40.

Leveson Inquiry this week. But was it a grilling or a light steam. Our

:37:40.:37:46.

panel are here to give their verdicts. Danny Finkelstein, Sally

:37:46.:37:49.

Morgan, former righthand woman at Downing Streeting, and Miranda

:37:50.:37:52.

Green, one time adviser to the Liberal Democrats. What do you

:37:52.:37:56.

think we learned about David Cameron today, apart from the fact

:37:56.:38:01.

that he's your mate! First of all, prais prime ministers having to

:38:01.:38:04.

answer questions under oath at the Royal Courts of Justice is not

:38:04.:38:08.

great look. The whole thing has been an ordeal for the incumbent

:38:08.:38:13.

party, and more of an ordeal than they thought about when they set it

:38:13.:38:18.

up. The first part of the inquiry which learned a lot about press

:38:18.:38:24.

ethics, that will help in the future. The next section has been

:38:24.:38:27.

less successful, embarrassing for the Government, the texts have been

:38:27.:38:31.

embarrassing. They went after the idea that there was a big

:38:31.:38:34.

conspiracy and didn't prove it, they wasted a lot of time with that.

:38:34.:38:37.

That is disappointing. The public, which has never been that engaged

:38:37.:38:42.

with this part of it, has now become much less engaged with it. I

:38:42.:38:46.

suspect the political consequences of the prime ministers' performance

:38:46.:38:49.

-- the Prime Minister's performance, not what you want, it makes them

:38:49.:38:54.

look out of control, will not be that great, because public interest

:38:54.:38:58.

has waneed. The idea at the beginning of the inquiry that

:38:58.:39:02.

people felt passionate about, now not so much. Did you learn

:39:02.:39:05.

something about David Cameron, how he handled himself today? I thought

:39:05.:39:11.

he handled himself well, he looked uncomfortable at times, as you

:39:11.:39:15.

would expect. It is not great listening to testimony like. That

:39:15.:39:22.

it was excruciating, wasn't it. I suppose what I think Is the sort of

:39:22.:39:25.

damaging smell, or taste that is left at the end of today, really,

:39:25.:39:30.

there was nothing killing there. It was just this added perception of

:39:30.:39:34.

this kind of clique, living a life. It adds to the feeling that they

:39:34.:39:38.

are very separate from the rest of us. That is the problem, I think.

:39:38.:39:43.

The thing was, the text, as has been said several times, was from

:39:43.:39:47.

Rebekah Brooks to David Cameron, not the other way round. It

:39:47.:39:52.

suggested a close relationship, and the language of the text was all

:39:52.:39:56.

about that. Was she quite close to him at the time? I mean I couldn't

:39:57.:40:01.

tell you, but it certainly does, as Sally said, leave this idea,

:40:01.:40:06.

amongst the general public, that there is a cosiness, a media and

:40:06.:40:09.

political elite, it is all terribly chummy, and what is the fate of the

:40:09.:40:12.

rest of the population. It leaves the rest of the population out?

:40:12.:40:16.

important thing to note is they started with that view. I don't

:40:16.:40:19.

think it will have changed much. You don't want it to reinforce that

:40:19.:40:26.

view, do you? No, and I think David Cameron hoped during expenses to

:40:26.:40:30.

separate himself from that view. It is about the whole of the political

:40:30.:40:36.

class. The party political damage, I expect Tom Watson hopes he has

:40:36.:40:39.

induced, more that it has damaged David Cameron's relationship with

:40:39.:40:44.

the rest of the press rather than causing the Tories' problems.

:40:44.:40:48.

largely agree with that, I think the public have switched off and it

:40:48.:40:52.

has done nothing for politics or media. But I do think it is

:40:52.:40:55.

particularly damaging for David Cameron, at the moment. It just

:40:55.:40:58.

adds to that general view of, not just that politicians are different,

:40:58.:41:02.

but that this group are not suffering like the rest of us. They

:41:02.:41:07.

are living a different sort of life. You, from your own background know

:41:07.:41:11.

exactly what happens when things get out of control. It looks to me

:41:11.:41:14.

that Leveson setting the agenda, not the politicians, that can't be

:41:14.:41:18.

good for any of the parties. Let's take Gordon Brown's performance,

:41:18.:41:22.

Gordon Brown looked as if butter wouldn't melt in his mouth. I mean,

:41:22.:41:29.

how did that happen? There was no challenge to that, of course?

:41:29.:41:33.

challenge during the inquiry. really? They let it run. I thought

:41:33.:41:37.

there were two parts of Gordon, there was the section where he was

:41:37.:41:44.

talking about his son. And I think in a sense, there would be a level

:41:44.:41:49.

of sympathy from people listening to 0 that. And there was -- to that.

:41:49.:41:52.

And then there was the briefing and the spinning, you could ask six

:41:52.:41:57.

questions, if you were going to get the answer Gordon gave, why ask it

:41:57.:42:01.

six times. My point of view is it wouldn't convince anybody. With the

:42:01.:42:04.

Liberal Democrats, they have been in parade, looking back, Nick Clegg

:42:05.:42:11.

actually came out of it quite well? I think Nick Clegg is much better

:42:11.:42:16.

talking like a normal person. Funnily enough he returned a bit to

:42:16.:42:26.

the Nick Clegg USP that he has lost so disastrously in Government. He

:42:26.:42:30.

was charming, self-deprecating humour worked very well on TV, and

:42:30.:42:36.

a bonding moment with Brian Leveson. It is true,'s good at that.

:42:36.:42:40.

managed to distance himself, that crack of being at the children's

:42:40.:42:47.

end of the table, was an effective way of saying he's not part of the

:42:47.:42:50.

circle. Is it that the Liberal Democrats don't matter? The thing

:42:50.:42:53.

to remember is people aren't watching. I spent a total of eight

:42:53.:42:58.

days watching the Leveson. But that is because I do that for a living.

:42:58.:43:03.

Other people, they went to work. They didn't watch the inquiry.

:43:03.:43:06.

is the point. You said earlier on that there may well be proposals

:43:06.:43:11.

out of that, and they will have arisen from the early part of the

:43:11.:43:14.

inquiry. The problem is, for the public, this is making politicians,

:43:14.:43:20.

and the press, so far removed from them? The early part of the Leveson

:43:20.:43:24.

Inquiry was gripping and moving. And any journalist would have to

:43:24.:43:29.

lock at it and think, beyond what I even thought, this make as case for

:43:29.:43:33.

having some form of redress, and changing the way the press behave.

:43:33.:43:37.

I think this part of the Leveson Inquiry, particularly after a while

:43:37.:43:40.

beginning to repeat itself, was much less effective and has lost a

:43:40.:43:43.

lot of public interest. The public thought they already knew that

:43:43.:43:45.

journalists and politicians were living separate lives from them,

:43:45.:43:49.

that is how they feel about them. I don't think it has changed that an

:43:49.:43:53.

awful lot. I think it will have forced a change in behaviour.

:43:53.:44:00.

it? To deal with the whole aftermath of Hutton, how did you

:44:00.:44:04.

get things back on track and they didn't stay on track that long?

:44:04.:44:08.

Hutton, I was saying to Danny, beforehand, looking at it, you

:44:08.:44:13.

think, oh no, you set an inquiry up, and it takes over. No matter how

:44:13.:44:18.

stietly you have set up the framework for an inquiry. Once you

:44:18.:44:23.

set it up? It runs itself. can't interfere? It consumes vast

:44:23.:44:26.

hours and days and weeks of activity in the centre. When you

:44:26.:44:29.

look at what else is happening in the country at the moment. How do

:44:29.:44:34.

you get back, you have to weight until Leveson finshes? There will

:44:34.:44:37.

be pause in the summer, they will wait until he finshes and they will

:44:37.:44:42.

need to respond to his propoetsals quickly. Do you -- Proposals

:44:42.:44:46.

quickly. Do you think that is the way to knock it on the head, to

:44:46.:44:51.

respond quickly? An interesting difference emerged between Ed

:44:51.:44:56.

Miliband, Nick Clegg and David Cameron. David Cameron was much

:44:56.:44:59.

less on statutory underpinning, clearly the Conservative instinct

:44:59.:45:05.

is different. There will be a genuine debate about what to do.

:45:05.:45:09.

The Times has been very against statutory underpinning, other

:45:09.:45:13.

moneys are more favourable. There is an appetite for change, it is

:45:13.:45:16.

interesting, John Major's evidence was fascinating this week. Tony

:45:16.:45:19.

Blair appealing for the current Prime Minister to act in the way

:45:19.:45:27.

that he never did. I think there is a moment hire that must be seized.

:45:27.:45:34.

If it -- Here that must be seized. If it isn't seized, public will be

:45:34.:45:37.

doubly disengaged, thinking it is all a waste of time? There are

:45:37.:45:41.

other things going on. We are in the middle two of massive threats,

:45:41.:45:47.

the eurozone, Syria. One of the terrible things this week is we had

:45:47.:45:54.

Leveson and PMQs this week where nobody asked anything about Syria

:45:54.:45:59.

or Europe. The issues that relate to real people at the hands of the

:45:59.:46:02.

press, people are interested. The Government have to do something

:46:02.:46:05.

about it. Do you think whatever happens it withers the relationship

:46:05.:46:09.

between the politicians and the press? In the newspapers, a lot of

:46:09.:46:12.

the consequence is the Tory press has turned on the Tory Party, that

:46:12.:46:16.

is one of the consequences. It will all change soon. Tomorrow morning's

:46:16.:46:21.

front pages. Thank you all very much.

:46:21.:46:26.

�140 billion to kick start the economy. The Independent has the

:46:26.:46:31.

Newsnight analyses the political damage to David Cameron after his appearance before the Leveson Inquiry while panellists including Tom Watson and Abi Titmuss look at the lasting impact of the multimillion pound process. Allegra Stratton has the latest on the Bank of England's plans to boost the UK economy.


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