Browse content similar to 02/07/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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As the Government announces an inquiry into the rate-fixes scandal, | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
questions about how much the Bank of England knew about what happens | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
happening at Barclays. The shock waves continue, this | :00:20. | :00:22. | |
programme understands the Treasury Select Committee will examine | :00:22. | :00:27. | |
claims by a whistle-blower, and e- mails between the Central Bank and | :00:27. | :00:29. | |
Barclays. We ask the Treasury Minister, and the Labour Party, how | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
many more inquiries they think they need to get to the bottom of a | :00:33. | :00:36. | |
major mess. And what's it like to be a | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
policeman when London burns? We are talking wheelie bins on fire, | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
bottles set alight, and made into firebombs and thrown at us, I have | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
never seen anything like t and I pray to God I never see anything | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
like it again. Tonight we hear from the police in the frontline of the | :00:53. | :00:57. | |
English riots. My colleague screamed they were being attacked. | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
What had happened is this machete had appeared through the hole in | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
the window, and had started hacking at his hand. Could they have done | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
more to stop the destruction. didn't stand back and watch | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
Tottenham burn, which most people make out, which hurts a great deal. | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
We did everything we possibly could, with the resources we had. | :01:16. | :01:21. | |
We will talk to a rioter, a minister, a Met chief, and the | :01:21. | :01:30. | |
woman they call the "heroin of Hackney". | :01:30. | :01:36. | |
Good evening, here is the choice, an investigation of bankers by | :01:36. | :01:41. | |
politicians, or a wider, longer, public inquiry that could take | :01:41. | :01:48. | |
forever and be relegate today dausy shelf. Are we getting any closer to | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
the epicentre of the scandal. Tomorrow a Treasury Select | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
Committee will look into claims by a whistle-blower that could throw | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
the Bank of England right in the middle of the scandal. Allegations | :01:59. | :02:09. | |
:02:09. | :02:13. | ||
of e-mails between Paul Tucker and The 2008 financial crash left the | :02:13. | :02:23. | |
:02:23. | :02:23. | ||
City reeling, for a while put paid to big bashs and big bonuses. | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
Of course the party started again. But only for misdemeanors of the | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
past to catch up with them. On Wednesday evening, behind this | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
wall, there was to have been a lavish party, senior bankers had | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
invited politicians and lobbyists to help them celebrate the summer. | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
Today we found out it was cancelled, instead the banking community has a | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
much less glamorous affair to look forward. To the Treasury Select | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
Committee will grill Barclays boss, Bob Diamond. Members of the | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
Treasury Select Committee tomorrow meet tomorrow to strategyise. | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
Central to their deliberations will be a phone call between Barclays | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
chief executive, Bob Diamond, and the deputy governor, Paul Tucker. A | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
phone call both men are said to regard differently, but led junior | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
Barclays executive to believe the Bank of England sanctioned their | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
behaviour. Tonight we have new allegations from a whistle-blower. | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
Newsnight has seen a letter passed to the Treasury Select Committee, | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
ahead of Bob Diamond's appearance before them on Wednesday t alleges | :03:22. | :03:32. | |
:03:32. | :03:43. | ||
not only phone calls between the Tomorrow the committee will discuss | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
the letter. Sources tell Newsnight much is still up in the air. The | :03:48. | :03:55. | |
committee chair has yet to decide whether he will call Paul Tucker. | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
Today, faced by an opposition calling for a full public inquire | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
year, the Government made its own move. -- inquiry, the Government | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
made its own move. I want to us establish a full Parliamentary | :04:07. | :04:13. | |
Committee of inquiry, involving both Houses, chaired by the head of | :04:13. | :04:20. | |
the Commons Treasury select committee, the iny -- inquiry will | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
take evidence under oath, and will be able to talk to advisers from | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
this and the last Government, and it will be given by the Government | :04:27. | :04:35. | |
all of the resources it needs to do its job properly. Labour continued | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
to push for more. There have already been select committee | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
reports into the banking crisis, a number of select committee reports | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
into the banking crisis. I appreciate the Leveson Inquiry has | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
been uncomfortable for politicians on all sides. But that is the way | :04:50. | :04:57. | |
it should be. We will continue to argue for a full and open inquiry, | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
independent of bankers and independent of politicians. | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
This evening Labour insists they will vote against the Government's | :05:06. | :05:13. | |
inquiry, making it very hard for Andrew Tyire to achieve consensus. | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
More details of the Government's plans came from the Chancellor this | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
afternoon. Fines imposed on banks will now go to the public purse | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
rather than back to the banking industry. A LIBOR inquiry will be | :05:25. | :05:34. | |
led by Martin Wheatley, and there will be a joint parliamentary | :05:34. | :05:40. | |
inquiry led by the chairman of the Treasury select commity. But he | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
insisted his inquiry is also about LIBOR, not banking ethics. Stephen | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
Barclay is a Tory MP who once worked for Barclays and the FSA, he | :05:50. | :05:57. | |
thinks more is needed than even his own party has announced. | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
inquire inquiry needs to lead to us the truth, but it needs to change | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
behaviour. Behaviour is changed by having individual fines. At present | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
people get a bonus individually, but the fine is imposed on the firm. | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
What we need to do is fine the individual so, we change the | :06:13. | :06:19. | |
behaviour F you look the fines individuals have faced so far, | :06:19. | :06:25. | |
almost always it has been less than a bonus for each year. Ed Miliband | :06:25. | :06:30. | |
is going hard for a full public inquiry, keen to repeat the success | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
of calling for an inquiry into the press. The Government don't want to | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
be caught acting too slow t could end up compounding their biggest | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
presental problem, that they are too close to people in the City. | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
Most of the deregulation occurred under Labour, but having said that | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
the process of deregulation started under Thatcher, and the coalition | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
haven't done anything to correct the situation. It is hard to find | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
someone not to blame amongst politicians at the moment. | :07:02. | :07:09. | |
Thatcherite, big bang, or brownite smaller bang, it is now the race to | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
be the one to snuff out the lights. On the whistle-blower allegations | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
the Bank of England said they were not aware of any e-mails, the FSA | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
has said in the course of their investigation they found no | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
instruction was given by the Bank of England to instruct Barclays to | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
manipulate LIBOR. Barclays said they could not go further than the | :07:28. | :07:35. | |
FSA's findings at this stage. Let as take it on with us, we have the | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
Treasury Minister and the Shadow Treasury Minister. We have got | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
three different inquiries, Labour's calling for a public inquiry as | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
well. Isn't it notorious that when you call for an inquiry, it tells | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
the public that you basically don't want to make decisions any more? | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
have been very clear, the two inquiries that George Osborne | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
announce today, the first is into the process of looking at LIBOR and | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
criminal sanctions, and is to report at the end of the summer w | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
the view to putting legislation forward later this year, to go into | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
the financial services bill, going through parliament at the moment. | :08:06. | :08:11. | |
The report, the committee we are setting up under Andrew Tyrie's | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
chairmanship, is to report by the end of the year, there is Banking | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
Reform Bill going through parliament next year, any | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
legislative proposals that Andrew makes could be made in that bill. | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
We know that Barclays broke the rules wrecks know they have been | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
fined and the FSA is looking into - we know that they have been fined | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
and the FSA is looking at other banks what are you doing to stop | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
them behaving badly? We are, in The Libertines inquiry, is looking to | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
the future, and ensuring there are criminal sanctions in place if | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
someone tries to manipulate LIBOR again. That was a big hole in what | :08:46. | :08:52. | |
Balls bulls designed, we have to plug. That where Tyrie is involved, | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
we need broader issues around transparency and ethic to see if we | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
can change the culture in banking. You think the public tuning in | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
tonight will say, that's good, the politicians are in charge of an | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
inquiry into bankers, that will reassure people? What people want | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
is action happening. The public inquiry called for the Labour Party | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
does kick this into the long grass, we need action sooner rather than | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
waiting two or three years, an expensive inquiry, people want | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
action. That is what we will deliver. This is just a bidding war, | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
it is a bidding war for public opinion to see who can go further | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
and bigger and more extravagant in the inquiries they are calling for? | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
If there is a difference of opinion, and I think some people, and the | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
general public, recognise there is a moment of reckoning for the banks. | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
It is so serious with this particular scandal, manipulating | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
independent interest rate statistic tixs, that you have to have a | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
cathartic moment where you have a proper independent. A cathartic | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
moment where we had with the Chilcot Inquiry, which nobody can | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
remember is still going on and hasn't reported? To say you | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
shouldn't have an inquiry because they last for three years, you can | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
set the terms of reference, and have the non-partisan approach. | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
What we are seeing is on Friday, when we called for this full | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
inquiry in the wake of this scandal, the Prime Minister said, oh no, it | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
is not necessary. Of course, over the weekend they have realised that | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
the public are absolutely sick to the back teeth with this whole | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
story, today we have managed to extract, well a partial inquiry, it | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
is not good enough just to have politicians doing it. When this | :10:27. | :10:33. | |
story broke, into political party would even condemn Diamond. It is | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
absolutely right, we didn't hear from any political leader, it took | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
a whole week? Ed Miliband has been saying this week it is time for | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
change in the leadership in Barclays. The key thing on the | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
LIBOR scandal is this, I raised this issue with Mark, during the | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
financial services bill, when we put amendments about stewardship | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
and duty of care to customers, all rejected. When I raised The | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
Libertines issue and said what is the Government's view, do you have | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
a view, it was a one-word answer, no. Are you worried about the Bank | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
of England involvement in this, you have heard about the report | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
tonight? Going back to the point Chris made, when that issue was | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
raised in committee, I knew what was going on, I knew there was a | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
review of LIBOR happening. didn't you say that? I knew the BBC | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
was leading, that the Treasury, the FSA and the Bank of England and | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
banks were involved in it. I don't think it was my job to pre-empt | :11:25. | :11:32. | |
that inquiry, and we have to wait until the FSA report. You told | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
parliament there was no view about it. That is hardly pre-emptive if | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
you said had you no view. Politicians are accused of shooting | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
before they ask the question, it is my job to get the regulation right. | :11:43. | :11:49. | |
That is why we are in the land of inquiries. According to what we | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
have heard, the Bank of England may be at the epicentre of this, does | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
that concern you? What's very clear is that the Treasury Select | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
Committee has called, not just Bob Diamond, but also the regulators, | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
including the Bank of England, to take part in that inquiry, I think | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
it is important that the questions are asked. Are you disturbed by | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
what you have heard this evening? It is absolutely important that the | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
questions are asked, the Treasury Select Committee inquiry is way of | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
doing, that let's wait for the answers. Are you concerned that | :12:19. | :12:21. | |
senior Conservatives like Michael Fallon, the Deputy Chairman of the | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
panel, who sits on the Treasury Select Committee, who will be | :12:25. | :12:32. | |
asking the questions s also a non- executive director of Tullet | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
Prixbon, are you satisfied he's not involved in this? Under this | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
Government and the previous Government, the Treasury Select | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
Committee has the ability to challenge things. Are you worried | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
that Michael Fallon's bank will not be involved in this when he's | :12:47. | :12:49. | |
sitting on the Treasury Select Committee? A number of banks are | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
being investigated. The FSA investigation is on going, I'm not | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
going to provide rauning commentary on who is and who isn't -- a | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
running commentary on who is and who isn't being investigated. | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
will a Government majority of politicians leading an inquiry, | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
will that inspire the public that this is some how independent and | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
forensic, it is not good enough. This is the difficulty, the | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
Government haven't grasped how serious this issue is, you think | :13:15. | :13:20. | |
you can patch up the symptoms and slap people on the wrist. Get ahead | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
of the game, all parties have always struggled with keeping pace | :13:24. | :13:30. | |
on the regulation. Isn't this the moment to get ahead of these very | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
ingenious traders and have a proper full independent inquiry. You know | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
you will U-turn on it soon any way. Ed Balls designed the system, | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
nothing would suit the Labour Party more than kicking it into the long | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
grass, we need to make sure there is a proper inquiry, aks taken, we | :13:48. | :13:54. | |
are the party reforming financial - - action is taken, we are the party | :13:54. | :14:00. | |
reforming financial services. biggest psychological challenge of | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
their careers, the police said, rioters said it was their | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
opportunity for revenge. Nearly a year on from the riots that stormed | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
England, we piece together the events of the few, extraordinary, | :14:10. | :14:17. | |
terrifying days and ask what went wrong. We have been given access to | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
130 interviews of police officers, many fear future budget cuts in | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
England and Wales would hinder their ability to cope with anything | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
of the kind again. Paul Lewis reports, there is strong language | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
in this film. It was a war, and for the first | :14:32. | :14:38. | |
time we were in control. They arrest people for no reason, they | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
stop and check us for no reason. That was the best three days of my | :14:42. | :14:49. | |
life. Six months ago we interviewed hundreds of rioters. Many of them | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
described the disorder, like a war against the police. But what was it | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
like for the officers who were lined up against them? For almost a | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
year, we have been working with a team of academics at the London | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
School of Economics, investigating exactly what happened during last | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
summer's riots, and why. Our researchers have spoken to 130 | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
police officers, of every rank, deployed in London, Birmingham, | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
Liverpool, Manchester and Salford. These are firsthand accounts, some | :15:19. | :15:24. | |
of them anonymous, from the frontline of the biggest policing | :15:24. | :15:33. | |
challenge in decades. As I walked up towards the crowd, I | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
vividly remember locking eyes with a particular lady within the crowd, | :15:37. | :15:44. | |
and she started to chant, "murderer, murderer", the crowd started to | :15:44. | :15:49. | |
follow along and shouted murderer, murderer. Mark Duggan had been shot | :15:49. | :15:54. | |
dead by police in Tottenham, two days earlier. Chief Inspector Ade | :15:54. | :15:57. | |
Adelekan had to manage a peaceful protest outside the Police Station. | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
He was in charge that day. He spoke to Duggan's fiance, friends and | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
family. They wanted answers from the police in terms of what | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
happened to Mark Duggan, one of the other concerns is they wanted a | :16:11. | :16:16. | |
more senior officer to convey those messages to them. I found the | :16:16. | :16:18. | |
temporary superintendant, and he made his way within the time span, | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
which was an hour that I was allowed. Unfortunately the family | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
decided that they had waited long enough, they started to walk away | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
from us. I must be honest, as they started to walk away, you could | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
literally see them in the background, that is when the wave | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
of bottles, street furniture, and everything started to come in. It | :16:38. | :16:46. | |
was explosive. The Duggan family had no part in | :16:46. | :16:52. | |
the disorder that was breaking out. Adelekan called for back-up. The | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
Met admits it should have arrived sooner. For two hours his officers | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
were outnumbered and underequipped. They came under relentless attack. | :17:01. | :17:07. | |
We are talking wheelie bin ones fire, bottles that had been gained | :17:07. | :17:13. | |
from the off-licence, that had been set alight and made into firebombs | :17:13. | :17:18. | |
and thrown at us. We are talking about a fridge freezer, pulled out | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
from a shop and rolled towards us. I have never seen anything like it, | :17:22. | :17:28. | |
and pray to God I never see anything like it again. | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
As midnight approached, police from surrounding borrowings arrived in | :17:33. | :17:38. | |
Tottenham. As we got closer, we could make up the silhouettes of | :17:38. | :17:44. | |
rioters, the noise then started to increase dramatically. | :17:44. | :17:52. | |
It was almost impossible to hear the radios. It is the most hostile, | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
aggressive, crowd dynamic that I will ever come across in my entire | :17:56. | :18:04. | |
experience as a police officer. As inspector Andre Ramsey led his | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
officers -- Inspector Andre Ramsey led his officers on the first | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
advance, he was knocked on conscious, this is him, shortly | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
after the attack. I don't know what hit me, it was clearly something | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
extremely heavy. Because it actually cracked my protective | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
helmet. The next thing I remember is being hauled up back on to my | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
feet, by two officers either side of me. I just shook my head, tried | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
to regain my vision. I was conscious that we were so stretched | :18:32. | :18:38. | |
on the ground, I just felt I had to keep going, even though I knew I | :18:38. | :18:46. | |
had been concussed. My biggest fear was having a police | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
officer separated, in that happened, I had absolutely no doubt there | :18:49. | :18:56. | |
could have been loss of life. I assessed that it was a possibility | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
that we might get shot at. Particularly if we were lured to | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
far forward, and I also saw what appeared to be machetes, that was | :19:05. | :19:11. | |
sending out a very clear message to me, that certainly, if anybody got | :19:11. | :19:16. | |
separated, you know, it could all come to a very grizley end. One of | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
the strong he is -- Grisly end. Unwft strongest findings in our | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
research, is police officers feared they would be killed. Senior | :19:24. | :19:32. | |
officers too were astonished that no police died. Despite these fears, | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
in Tottenham, as elsewhere, police kept charging forward. We were | :19:36. | :19:43. | |
coming under the heaviest bombardment of the whole night. | :19:43. | :19:48. | |
Supermarket trolleys were being used by the rioters, to stock up | :19:48. | :19:58. | |
:19:58. | :19:59. | ||
with bricks from a nearby building site. We got parallel with the | :19:59. | :20:04. | |
Prince of Wales public house, I remember bottles exploding on a | :20:04. | :20:08. | |
lampost near me and being showered with glass. We just did not have | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
the vorss at that point in time to arrest -- resources at that point | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
in time to arrest people. Our job was to protect our colleagues from | :20:16. | :20:21. | |
the other emergency services so they could save life. It may have | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
look today television camera that is police were standing back when | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
they should have been making arrests. But officers we | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
interviewed said their tactics were misunderstood. In fact, outnumbers, | :20:32. | :20:37. | |
they said they were concentrating on what mattered most. We didn't | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
stand back and watch Tottenham burn, as most people say, which hurts a | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
great deal. We did everything we possibly could with the resources | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
we had, to try to protect life as well as property. But at some point | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
I had to make the difficult decision, it was life, it was | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
always going to be life above property. | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
Over the next 72 hours, as riots and looting spread across England, | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
police faced a level of violence many said they had never seen | :21:04. | :21:12. | |
before. My colleague screamed, I'm being attacked, and what had | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
happened is this machete had just appeared through this hole in the | :21:15. | :21:20. | |
window and had just started hacking at his hand. In Birmingham gangs | :21:20. | :21:26. | |
fired at police, even taking aim at the force helicopter. In Liverpool, | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
rioters fought vicious, hand-to- hand battles with police. It wasn't | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
looting, if they wanted to loot they have a two-minute walk to the | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
city centre, all the shops were there. It is simply a case is we | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
want a scrap, the police are here, let as target the police and have a | :21:41. | :21:47. | |
scrap with the police, let's get them. They ran us ragged. And while | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
officers in Manchester focused on trying to stop looters in the city | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
centre, in Salford they were overwhelmed and chased out. But it | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
was in London where police were most underresourced. So desperate | :22:00. | :22:06. | |
had they become, that some of the forces' least -- force's least | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
experienced officers found themselves on the frontline. When | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
it all kicked off, that was one of my first-ever shifts. As disorder | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
broke out in Hackney, Michael Lewis was on his first day in uniform as | :22:19. | :22:25. | |
a Special Constable, a volunteer role. I heard a colleague shout to | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
me, get your baton out, I never had to use it before, this thing I had | :22:29. | :22:35. | |
in training, even the small thing that could be quite default for an | :22:35. | :22:45. | |
experienced officer, was very alien to me. | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
Locking bankers. There was pockets of people, that were being very | :22:49. | :22:55. | |
violent, once officers were there, we were the target. | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
They had control at that point, and I think a lot of them knew that. It | :23:00. | :23:07. | |
was venomous. That is what really got me, they don't know me, but | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
when you are in that uniform, that's what it is directed at. | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
We spoke to a number of police, who, like Lewis, found themselves on the | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
frontline with no riot training, protective uniform, or shield. | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
There was petrol bombs being thrown, there was a lorry that had tried to | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
drive through the crowds but had got stopped and smashed up, that | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
was carrying a load of wood. So that was just like a truck load of | :23:33. | :23:42. | |
ammunition. I can remember seeing our car being trashed. | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
I remember the radio, they said that they were watching a gang of | :23:46. | :23:51. | |
them and they had broken into a hardware store. They were getting | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
Stanley knives and things like that, and taping Stanley knives to wood | :23:56. | :24:03. | |
to throw. It just makes you think, it is so prime evil, it sounds a | :24:03. | :24:12. | |
bit weird, it was like the making spheres to throw at us. | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
All I remember is seeing a brick come over the barricades, before I | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
had even a chance to think this brick had split in two, bounced up | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
and whacked me straight in the eye. Lewis was seen by a medic and told | :24:25. | :24:32. | |
to go to hospital. He refused. knew that we were outnumbered, and | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
there was not enough police officers there, and I'm thinking, I | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
remember in my head thinking, all I have is a black eye and a bit of | :24:41. | :24:46. | |
blood, I can still do this job. I don't needing to. | :24:47. | :24:52. | |
He and a colleague were then posted outside a JD Sports that had been | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
looted. There was people coming up taking photos, because I'm there | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
and there is comments coming from the crowd, you have got injured and | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
look at that, what happened to you. I remember they were taking photos, | :25:03. | :25:07. | |
and inviting them to come over and have a picture with us. I'm there, | :25:07. | :25:13. | |
arms round them, smiling, with a black eye. Having a photo that will | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
probably go on their Facebook and be ridiculed for it, at that time | :25:17. | :25:24. | |
that tactic was working for me. It softened this crowd that could have | :25:24. | :25:33. | |
potentially got quite aggressive again. To be stood there again, | :25:33. | :25:43. | |
:25:43. | :25:43. | ||
knowing what the potential is, that was what was really, really | :25:44. | :25:50. | |
frightening. Just knowing that you are stood there, and you could | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
potentially be severely injured or even worse, the unthinkable. You | :25:54. | :26:00. | |
don't know what's going to happen, there's a gang of people there, | :26:00. | :26:06. | |
there's more of them than there are of you. That's, that was petrifying, | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
I hope I never have to feel that again. | :26:10. | :26:15. | |
Disorder was spreading to almost every corner of London. The fires, | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
looting and violent attacks on police were being watched on CCTV | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
screens in a control room in Lambeth. | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
It was off the scale. You know, in 28 years of policing, and 25 years | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
of that involved with public order, I have never experienced it, I | :26:31. | :26:36. | |
don't think the country has. Chief Superintendent Adrian Roberts was | :26:36. | :26:42. | |
the Met's silver commander, the man in charge of tactics. He also ran | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
the Met's review into its handling of the riots. The fact is we ran | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
out of people. It almost became a lottery as to what time the | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
disorder started in what particular borrowings too whether they would | :26:54. | :27:00. | |
get the resources they would need to put it right. It was just soul | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
destroying. Roberts was forced to watch intense fires sweep across | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
Croydon. The firefighters needed police escorts. He told them, he | :27:08. | :27:14. | |
had run out. I was brought up there, and married there. It is my town. | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
Seeing my own borrowing then suffering in the way that it did, | :27:18. | :27:25. | |
again, was quite hard to take. why had the Met run out of | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
officers? Help was available, there is an emergency system to mobilise | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
riot-trained officers from regional forces, a kind of SO SFOR police in | :27:34. | :27:41. | |
times of crisis. -- SOS for police in times of crisis. Other forces | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
used the system well, but the Met did not operate the call for help | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
until Monday, the third and final day of rioting. If they put the | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
resources in on the Sunday, it certainly wouldn't have spread over | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
the rest of the country as it did. I don't think we did enough, or the | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
Met did enough, I think the national mobileisation should have | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
been put in place on the Sunday a lot quicker than it was. By the | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
Monday afternoon, only 500 extra police from around the country had | :28:05. | :28:10. | |
arrived in London. Some of them immediately encountered problems. | :28:10. | :28:16. | |
We were sat in this car park there must have been 200, 300 police | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
officers, we were constantly badgering our command Tories see | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
what was going on. The Metropolitan Police -- commanders to see what | :28:23. | :28:29. | |
was going on. The metropolitan police officers were accessing the | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
radio constantly to see what was going on, the message was they | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
couldn't access the radio channels operated in Hackney and Croydon. | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
For that very reason we were not deployed there. That was the most | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
frustrating thing that I will take from that night. Obviously we're | :28:44. | :28:48. | |
all sat in the van, we are taking phone calls from our loved ones, we | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
are watching it all live on television, Croydon's on fire, the | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
police are under attack in Hackney, and we're sat in a car park, for | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
the simple reason that we can't get on to the radio channel they are | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
operating on. In this day and age I think that is laughable. It just | :29:04. | :29:09. | |
meant that massive amount of resources had been mustered into | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
the capital that day were bakesically useless and being sent | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
to mean -- basically useless, and were being sent to meanal stuff | :29:17. | :29:24. | |
when other areas were desperately in need of help. We didn't get to | :29:24. | :29:29. | |
any places of disorder in time, it was shut the gates after the horse | :29:29. | :29:34. | |
as bolted type of policing, go, go, go, but we never got anywhere. | :29:34. | :29:37. | |
There was no direction, we never met the commanding officer, and we | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
were in the dark. Those 200 officers would have been clearly | :29:41. | :29:48. | |
better than what was already deployed there. We may have quelled | :29:48. | :29:54. | |
it, it may not have got to the point where control was lost | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
completely. There were complaints from several different forces, one | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
officer told us nine vans of police from Thames Valley and Hampshire, | :30:00. | :30:09. | |
were turned back from the Reeves furniture store in Croydon, he was | :30:09. | :30:19. | |
:30:19. | :30:20. | ||
told because a Met Officer wanted a Met police force, so Croydon burned. | :30:20. | :30:25. | |
A lot of people are saying that the officers weren't deployed to where | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
they were needed because of the radio channel? I'm not aware of | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
that. The work done in the long- term about the radios is being done | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
elsewhere. On the night we weren't aware of it. The feedback we had | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
was the airwave, the national system we used worked very well, it | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
was the one thing that did work very well for us. It is true, that | :30:45. | :30:50. | |
as a force, we have not had an awful lot of experience of bringing | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
in such large numbers from outside forces, normally it is the other | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
way round. There is lessons we can and have learned from that whole | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
mutual aid deployment bit. I can assure if you I had known cops were | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
sitting in car park, they would have been deployed pretty quickly. | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
To be clear, what they are saying is they weren't able to access the | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
Met channel, and as a result they couldn't be deployed on the | :31:14. | :31:16. | |
frontline? I don't know the answer to that particular question around | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
the radio channels, it certainly isn't something that has been fed | :31:20. | :31:27. | |
back to me through the review. All the mutual aid officers were | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
interviewed. By the Tuesday, most of the officers from outside London | :31:31. | :31:36. | |
had arrived. They helped bolster a huge show of force, 16,000 police | :31:36. | :31:43. | |
were deployed on the capital's streets. When you had the 16,000 | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
officers in place on the Tuesday, there was no rioting in London so I | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
guess the question is, would it have been possible to have those | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
16,000 officers deployed on the Monday? It may have been, it is | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
hard to say it may have been the deterrent that there were 16 though | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
cops so people didn't come out to cause cim -- 16,000 cops to people | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
didn't come out to cause the criminality that they Z we didn't | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
have the large gatherings that we did the previous night. It wasn't | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
that it was there and we were able to deal with it, it didn't actually | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
transgress in front of us. Could we have got the 16,000 out before. If | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
we had the Monday night happen the day before, maybe we would have | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
done. But, there was nothing to suggest that we needed that many | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
officers on that particular night, leading into it. | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
But the intelligence forecasting the scale of riots did exist, much | :32:32. | :32:38. | |
of it was on social media. Police told us that sorting fact from | :32:38. | :32:43. | |
fiction on Facebook and Twitter was one of their biggest challenges. | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
struggled in August, because we didn't have enough trained people, | :32:46. | :32:52. | |
we didn't have the right IT to be able to search the social media. | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
Never before have we had to. Although there is lots of things we | :32:55. | :32:57. | |
have done differently have changed and are doing differently, as a | :32:57. | :33:01. | |
result of what we have learned from the experiences in August, that is | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
the one we really need to really get a grip of. If police struggled | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
during the riots, because they did not have enough officers on the | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
ground, how do they feel about the future? I don't think we did bad by | :33:14. | :33:16. | |
any stretch of the imagination compared to some. I think the cuts | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
that are coming in, will only make things worse, you are looking at | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
less people trained to deal with public order situations. We | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
probably would struggle to do that again, and cope with that level of | :33:26. | :33:31. | |
violence n my opinion. They say it is not affecting frontline police | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
officers, it is. We will be 16,000 police officers less in 12 months | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
time. So the next time we have disorder on that scale, Theresa May | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
can whistle as long as she likes, she will not get that number of | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
staff. I think it will happen again, I have no doubt it will happen | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
again. We have now spoken to hundreds of rioters and police | :33:49. | :33:54. | |
involved in last summer's disorder, many describe the experience as sur | :33:54. | :34:00. | |
role. Some said life had returned to normal, as if the riots had | :34:00. | :34:05. | |
never happened, but others, cannot forget. | :34:05. | :34:12. | |
I think about it. I almost think about it every day. You know, I | :34:12. | :34:21. | |
have said this to my family, it is difficult to live with, really. One | :34:21. | :34:26. | |
has to question one's self, could I have done anything differently? I | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
still every day think about could I have done stuff differently, what | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
could we have done as a service differently. I very much doubt I | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
have put it to bed, but that's life i suppose. | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
That report was by Paul Lewis, here in the studio now, one of the | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
rioters, Aston Walker, given a jail sentence for theft. The Assistant | :34:47. | :34:54. | |
Commissioner of the Met, and the policing minister, and the MP for | :34:54. | :35:01. | |
Tottenham, and Pauline Pierce, known as the "her win for Hackney | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
after the riots. Do you ask yourself the same | :35:04. | :35:07. | |
question at the end of the report, what could have been done | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
differently? Of course, any organisation that's faced something | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
it has never seen before, would be foolish to say it couldn't do | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
things differently and learn things. I think the thing that comes out | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
most from the report, that should be emphasised, the bravery of the | :35:22. | :35:24. | |
officers involved. People prepared to work all hours, put themselves | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
at risk to protect the public and their colleagues. The agonising of | :35:28. | :35:31. | |
the officers in command, trying to use limited ri sources to best | :35:31. | :35:37. | |
affect, to pro-- limited resources to best effect to preserve life. In | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
the aftermath last summer it was not talked about it and it is right | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
those officers are recognised. In terms of what we do differently, | :35:44. | :35:50. | |
the speed and the number we mobilised. The deployment? There | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
was something saying about fewer officers in the future, that is not | :35:54. | :36:00. | |
true in London. We have trained 1,750 more officers in public order | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
skills. You didn't deploy enough people in the places you needed | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
them, that is the point? People made judgment calls at the time, in | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
hindsight we should have deployed more and more quickly. You talk | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
about the bravery, we also heard the frustration of those guys who | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
were sitting, fully trained, riot officers, sitting in a police, in | :36:19. | :36:26. | |
car park, and they said, Croydon's on fire, we're stuck in a car park. | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
It's unfortunate they said that anonymously, the reviews we did, | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
didn't pick thank you very much. We picked up some issues of the radio, | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
we have never called in the Metaphor Mutual Aid on such a grand | :36:36. | :36:40. | |
scale before, we did it this time and we have learned more about how | :36:40. | :36:45. | |
to make it work. Your report didn't bring up the fact that they were on | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
a completely different radio controlled wave, which meant they | :36:48. | :36:53. | |
couldn't hear the rest of the Met. We spoke to many of the officers on | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
Mutual Aid, and that didn't come back to us. There were officers | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
come back from neighbouring forces on the Sunday morning on the second | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
day. That the Met didn't use because they weren't part of the | :37:03. | :37:05. | |
Met? They were used. They were coming in from the day after on the | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
Sunday morning. The report implies that Mutual Aid was not sought | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
until Monday. Not the national mobilisation until Monday? | :37:13. | :37:18. | |
started sensibly with neighbouring forces in the immediate Saturday | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
night as it developed, going to Sunday morning, we went to | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
neighbouring forces and on Monday morning it was nationwide. If you | :37:25. | :37:32. | |
had called it on Monday you could have avoited a while day of -- oh | :37:32. | :37:37. | |
aye what's that then voided a whole day of rioting? It is easy to say | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
that. People made calls at the time, starting to escalate the resources | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
during two or three days. You had those warnings, you heard in the | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
report, people could see the scale that was going to emerge, it was | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
too late? You say that now, in hindsight, that wasn't how it | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
looked at the time. I come back to, officers at the time made the best | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
decisions they could do. Any organisation will look back and say | :37:58. | :38:03. | |
we could do things differently, we have more officers trained, our | :38:03. | :38:09. | |
mobilisation plans mean we can go quickly, we have better systems to | :38:09. | :38:15. | |
look at social media. You arrived on the scenes of the riots, co-s | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
incidently, can you sympathise with -- coincidently, can you sympathise | :38:18. | :38:24. | |
with what you are hearing here? sadly for me what I saw firsthand, | :38:24. | :38:30. | |
there was no effort being made. At one point there was 400, 500 | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
rioters here, there was me and about 60 police behind me. And I | :38:34. | :38:40. | |
was giving it what for, and that was not the clip that was, that | :38:40. | :38:45. | |
became famous to people. This was a young man who was being attacked | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
because he took a picture. They charged after him, and they were | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
going for him. You know, I was the one, and a couple of other young | :38:53. | :38:57. | |
lads came along and helped me, and some friends of mine, who helped me | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
to get the crowd back and leave the man alone. And then I gave them | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
what for. But the police, they literally, I mean people say it | :39:05. | :39:11. | |
wasn't what it looked like, but it was. They did nothing. | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
Cars were on fireworks there was no ambulances, there was no fire | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
brigades -- on fire, there was no ambulances, there was no fire | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
brigades, at one point I was pushed into a burning car, my behind was | :39:25. | :39:31. | |
stuck in a car, real Tom and Jerry legs and arms hanging out. If it | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
wasn't for my friends pulling me out, there was no help from the | :39:34. | :39:39. | |
police. You saw that young white guy who had never been in uniform, | :39:39. | :39:45. | |
he was right at the front, he was hit in the eye? For me, personally, | :39:45. | :39:51. | |
I do sympathise to a degree, because it is a hard job that they | :39:51. | :39:56. | |
have. The police do need to be, have a pat on the back for the hard | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
work that they Diamonds Will Do, correctly. But, having said that, | :40:00. | :40:05. | |
it is a job that you chose, you knew the dangers involved, every | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
policeman knows every day they go out there there is a challenge, | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
there is a gun in your face, a knife in your face. You just don't | :40:11. | :40:17. | |
know. So you have taken on a job to protect people. Your response to | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
that? I think she's right in terms of what officers face on daily | :40:21. | :40:27. | |
basis, certainly. I recognise that people are frustrated, communities | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
saw shops looted and the police didn't have enough resource ones | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
the ground to deal with it. I come back to the -- resources on the | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
ground to deal with it. I come back to the film, the officers did all | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
they comfortable we have trained more and more ready for this summer. | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
You were one of the rioters, you described previously the Met as the | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
face of white privilege, your words, having seen that film does it make | :40:48. | :40:53. | |
you think twice about what you did? I actually looted at 5.00am, I | :40:53. | :40:59. | |
wasn't part of the mob rioting. It would be slightly disingenious of | :40:59. | :41:04. | |
me to talk about being part of. That obviously clearly they are | :41:04. | :41:10. | |
doing a very dangerous job, the police, on the frontline. If you | :41:10. | :41:15. | |
had seen more people you wouldn't have done what you had done? Well, | :41:15. | :41:23. | |
possibly, I went out there with the intention to film what had happened | :41:23. | :41:29. | |
You weren't politically motivated? Not at all. No. Even though, | :41:29. | :41:39. | |
:41:39. | :41:39. | ||
obviously a month prior to that I had been on a march for Kingsley | :41:39. | :41:44. | |
Burell killed in police custody. I do a lot of works, I'm ware of the | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
issues of black youth being killed in police custody. You heard in | :41:48. | :41:51. | |
that film, officers, saying they fear the whole thing could happen | :41:51. | :41:55. | |
again, and with imminent cuts, they wouldn't be able to protect the | :41:55. | :42:01. | |
public, or themselves? I disagree about that. There will still be a | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
very large number of police officers available. There are the | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
same number of police officers who are actually trained to deal with | :42:09. | :42:14. | |
riot situations. In fact, as the Assistant Commissioner said, the | :42:14. | :42:19. | |
number has been increased in London. We know that the reductions in | :42:19. | :42:25. | |
police work force, that the inspectorate has talked about today, | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
the inspectorate had been made mainly, not exclusively, mainly in | :42:29. | :42:33. | |
the back room positions, there has been a reduction. But the inspector | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
also said the frontline had been protected but not preserved. It is | :42:37. | :42:42. | |
not protected, there will be a reduction in 6%, we will see nearly | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
6,000 fewer officers on the frontline by 2015? Just to remind | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
people that is 130,000 officers in total. They are already struggling | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
at the moment, you are going to cut that number? I think you are | :42:53. | :42:56. | |
drawing the wrong conclusion. The conclusion surely is. Not my | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
conclusion, you heard from serving officers part of the riots last | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
summer, these are their concerns? When it reported on this towards | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
the end of last year, the point was made, it was about deployment and | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
the speed of deployment. It is not about the total number. It was his | :43:10. | :43:17. | |
fault? It was the Met's fault? -- It was the Met's fault? We will | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
still have far more police officers that we had in the 1980 and the | :43:22. | :43:27. | |
1990. I think there is a collective agreement, and the Assistant | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
Commissioner and the inspectorate said, and other Chief Constables | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
said, that there are lessons to be learned about the speed of | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
deployment. I don't think can you draw the conclusion that because | :43:35. | :43:40. | |
there is what is a -- you can draw the conclusion that because there | :43:40. | :43:45. | |
is what is a relative reduction in the frontline numbers, 6%, but 94% | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
are remaining, that what that means is there won't be adequate | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
resources to deal with these situations, there will still be | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
substantial resources to deal with these issues. We have eye-watering | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
cuts to deal with, more to do we are determined to do everything we | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
can to protect the public. We will try to maintain increased public | :44:06. | :44:11. | |
order officers in the frontline, it will be challenge but we will do it | :44:11. | :44:16. | |
because the public deserve it. you think numbers matter? It took | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
16,000 officers to bring order back to London and we are losing 16,000 | :44:20. | :44:26. | |
officers across the Met. I think it is patently obvious numbers make a | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
difference. Right across the country people said where are the | :44:28. | :44:33. | |
police. If you were standing in the Carpet Right building, half a mile | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
from the Police Station where the riot started in Tottenham. Watching | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
flames and youths progressing down Tottenham High Road, with your | :44:40. | :44:43. | |
children around you, in your night dress, those people want to know | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
where the police were. They watched their homes burn down, and they let | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
themselves out. No fire brigade. They let themselves out of the | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
building. It is complacent to suggest with safer neighbourhood | :44:55. | :45:00. | |
teams cuts w transport police cut, with 999 units cut now in the Met, | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
that there is not a problem with police numbers. It is a serious | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
issue, I'm afraid everybody knows that the issues behind these riots | :45:07. | :45:10. | |
have not been dealt with, so we will see further unrest, and not | :45:10. | :45:15. | |
the numbers to deal with it. That is not what is happening in | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
London. We don't know what is happening with the Met? I can tell | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
you where we are. We are not cutting neighbourhood schemes or | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
response teams. Why did it take to five days to bring that order. | :45:27. | :45:30. | |
is the point, this disorder happened last year, where there | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
were a near record number of police officers in this country. A bigger | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
police work force overall than we have ever seen, it had just come | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
off its peak. So quite clearly it can't be about numbers. It was | :45:42. | :45:48. | |
about how those numbers were deployed. The reduction that there | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
has been that you claim of 16,000, most of those, but not all, have | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
not come from the frontline. Because actually when we came to | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
power we discovered there was something like 25,000 officers who | :45:58. | :46:03. | |
were in back room positions. So the police will have ample resources to | :46:03. | :46:07. | |
deal with this kind of situation. You say ample, it is disengineous | :46:07. | :46:12. | |
to say there won't be frontline cuts in the Met. Sorry, I just said | :46:12. | :46:17. | |
that there are going to be reductions in overall numbers, but | :46:17. | :46:20. | |
the independent inspectorate report. So frontline numbers in the Met? | :46:20. | :46:26. | |
The inspect -- independent inspectorate report said today that | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
the frontline policing is protected and preserved. It also said the | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
response times were being protected. It said public confidence was | :46:33. | :46:38. | |
rising. Jew haven't answered my question, why did it take four to | :46:38. | :46:43. | |
five days to do it, why couldn't you do in the first what you did in | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
the last. Get all these police up to Tottenham and get it nipped in | :46:46. | :46:52. | |
the bud instantly. It took five days before any that have was done. | :46:52. | :46:55. | |
You are saying it is deployment? That is what the independent review | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
said. Pauline it is the nail on the head, you look back in hindsight, | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
clearly it would have been better to deploy more people more quickly | :47:02. | :47:07. | |
people at the time made a judgment who would predict there would be | :47:08. | :47:12. | |
mass copycats, criminal looting across multiple places in London | :47:12. | :47:16. | |
and across the country. Do you think it could have been contained | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
in Tottenham if it was taken more seriously at the beginning? In the | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
first night in Tottenham, whilst there was rioting on the high road, | :47:24. | :47:27. | |
Wood Green shopping centre ransacked, the Tottenham retail | :47:27. | :47:32. | |
park, ransacked. We saw that night a pattern that would happen on | :47:33. | :47:35. | |
subsequent nights, not just in London but across the country. I | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
think it could have been dealt with, it should have been, from the first | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
time we saw the cars burning on Tottenham High Road. Thank you very | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
much for coming in. That's all from Newsnight tonight, I will be back | :47:45. | :47:55. | |
:47:55. | :47:57. | ||
tomorrow, plenty more then, good night. | :47:57. | :48:00. | |
I wish I could offer you a ray of I wish I could offer you a ray of | :48:00. | :48:05. | |
hope. For the rest of the week it is further unsettled spells. | :48:05. | :48:08. | |
Brighter start to the day across Northern Ireland and Scotland. | :48:08. | :48:11. | |
Showers developing here, and further south across the country, | :48:11. | :48:17. | |
more generally cloudy with some wet weather spreading up across | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
southern England. For Wimbledon, although we got away with it for | :48:21. | :48:25. | |
late afternoon today, that might be the case tomorrow. Soggy across | :48:25. | :48:27. | |
parts of the West Country, if you are on holiday across the south | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
west of England, good luck. You won't see inch the way of sunshine. | :48:32. | :48:37. | |
Misty around the coasts and hills. For Wales wet weather at times, | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
particularly towards more south western areas. Northern Ireland | :48:41. | :48:46. | |
seeing dryer spells, not a washout here. Temperatures in the mid-teens. | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
Scotland holding on to sunshine. A few sharp showers around, but in | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
the brighter spells, fairly light winds, shouldn't feel so bad. | :48:53. | :48:58. | |
Further ahead into Wednesday, more showers on the menu, some brighter | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
spells, lifting those temperature noose the high teens, possibly low | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
20s, but the threat of further downpours possible, through the | :49:07. | :49:11. | |
second half of this week. No sign of any prolonged settled sunny | :49:11. | :49:15. |