29/10/2012 Newsnight


29/10/2012

With Jeremy Paxman. Hurricane Sandy hits America in election week. The political damage of child benefit reform. Is 3D printing a new industrial revolution?


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It's an ill wind, a week to the US election, and a Hurricane strikes

:00:14.:00:17.

the east coast. Both candidates start talking about the weather.

:00:17.:00:24.

Could the weather speak back. A force more powerful than the most

:00:24.:00:28.

powerful man on earth, could reshape the outcome. A race that

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has become closer and closer, is suddenly in the hands of something

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beyond the control of any man or woman.

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The epicentre of the Hurricane dubbed the Frankenstorm, will hit

:00:39.:00:48.

America, while we're on air. But already, it's causing havoc. We

:00:48.:00:52.

have a Democrat Democrat and a Republican to second guess the

:00:52.:00:57.

outcome. A million middle-class families will receive a letter this

:00:57.:01:03.

month, telling them how much child benefit they will lose. This is a

:01:03.:01:07.

benefit many MPs think should be preserved. It is a lot of pain and

:01:07.:01:12.

very little gain. The Treasury thinks they will raise �2.5 billion

:01:12.:01:19.

ay, but I suspect a lot will be written off. Is the fiscal pain

:01:19.:01:24.

worth the political gain, we will ask this lot. Is this dull-looking

:01:24.:01:29.

machine on our set the future of the Industrial Revolution. It will

:01:29.:01:39.
:01:39.:01:40.

not just print on paper, but a real 3D pen.

:01:40.:01:44.

A week tomorrow, a America chooses who is to be the next President.

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Safe to say that million of Americans on the east coast,

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including the two main candidates, have other things on their mind, in

:01:51.:01:57.

the form of the benignly named monster, Hurricane Sandy. It is

:01:57.:02:01.

expected to hit land in the next hour. On this side of the Atlantic,

:02:01.:02:06.

where the Met Office hyperventilates at mild drizzle,

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extreme weather is a form of pornography. In the US it is all

:02:11.:02:13.

too real. We're in Washington tonight.

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Where is this Hurricane tonight, Mark? It is hitting the eastern sea

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board of the United States. It is a natural disaster, on an epic scale.

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60 million people affected, two million, it is estimated, have

:02:27.:02:30.

already lost power. Now this lashing I'm getting from the rain

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is in Washington DC, winds here are about 40-50 miles per hour at the

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moment. They will peak at around 80 later this evening. The real centre

:02:40.:02:44.

of this, though, the area people are really worried about, is a

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couple of hundred miles to the north, New Jersey, New York itself,

:02:48.:02:52.

reports tonight that power is being cut off in lower Manhatten, the

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centre of the financial industry. What is the expected or anticipated

:02:57.:03:03.

effect of this on the election? wouldn't think that this could

:03:03.:03:06.

really tip the contest one way or the other, but the two candidates

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are so close together, the pollsters are refusing to say who

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they think at this stage would win. It is well within the margin of

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error, that any small incremental political factor could tip it for

:03:19.:03:23.

one side or the other. Quite a lot of people tonight are speculating

:03:23.:03:27.

that this could play very much into President Obama's hands. Allowing

:03:27.:03:33.

him to take the reins of power, to manage the response to the disaster,

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stalling the called Romney surge in its tracks. There are those who

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think there are dangers too for the President, even the slightest slip

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on his part could give the Romney camp that necessary margin for

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victory. It is the kind of speculation that has been building,

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along with the storm, all day. This morning the Hallowe'en

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Superstorm. An historic force of nature, three storm systems

:03:58.:04:02.

colliding at once. 50 million people in its path, bracing for

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storm surges up to 11-feet high. this country there are plenty of

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people make a living finding a drama in a crisis. In the tsunami

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of superlatives, Hurricane Sandy will be the worst storm for 100

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years, a vortex of winds and water. Even if it doesn't quite live up to

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that, lives will almost certainly be lost, and state governors have

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been using that grim probability to concentrate minds. There will be

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people who die and are killed in this storm, we are ordering, and

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urging, all Marylanders to stay off the road for the next 36 hours.

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They are very dangerous conditions out there, we ask you not to put

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yourselves or your family in jeopardy, and not to put our first

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responders in jeopardy by irresponsibly going out on the

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roads. Thousands of flights cancelled. Along with the dire

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warnings have come panic-buying, and a lock-down of much of the

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eastern sea board. The federal Government has shut down, as have

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railways, airports and subways. In New Jersey in New York, where sea

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level rises of up to 10 feet are being forecast, there could be

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widespread flooding. Even next week's elections could be hit. How

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does the storm complicate the elections? If the storm had hit a

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few days later, it might have affected election day. In America

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we are vote ago lot more before election day than we used to,

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voting at voting site. In key states there is voting going on

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today and tomorrow, some of those days will be disrupted. Election

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early voting allows you the flexibility of voting another day.

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I'm not sure those people will ultimately stay home. Certainly the

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election is being directly affected by the storm over the next few days.

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Are these wise precautions or a case of national hysteria, we will

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know the answer by this time tomorrow. One thing is clear,

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though, from the politics of this situation, both of the men running

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for President know that it's far more dangerous for them to

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underplay the gravity of this situation, than it is to overstate

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So both candidates have cancelled their campaign events. The

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President, mindful of the damage that Hurricane Katrina did his

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predecessor, seven years ago, is very publicly taking charge of the

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relief efforts. Please listen to what your state and local officials

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are saying. When they tell you to evacuate, you need to evacuate. Do

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not delay, don't pause, don't question the instructions that are

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being given, because this is a serious storm, and it could

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potentially have fatal consequences if people haven't acted quickly.

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it relevant in the election, does it possibly provide a Catriona at

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the moment for the President, or is it just not on that sort of level?

:07:01.:07:11.
:07:11.:07:13.

As we sit here, we will see. Presidential campaigns are about

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enhancing your positives and minimising your negatives.

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Campaigns are about driving home your message, and leaving as little

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as possible to chance. Now you have a potentially historic storm

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dropped into the final stages of an American political campaign.

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Katrina is, perhaps, potentially the great risk for the Obama

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administration. If you drop a Katrina-like performance into the

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latter stages of a political campaign, it is going to have an

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effect. It will feed existing perceptions and enhance your

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opposition's narrative. Special coverage starts right now.

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From ABC News, live in times square. For the Republican challengers, on

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the stump today in Ohio, the storm risks checking the momentum built

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up recently by their campaign. Today when we get home, put in our

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prayers the people in the east coast in the wake of this big storm

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that's coming. Let's not forget those fellow Americans of our's.

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This evening, the force of the storm is intensifying, and across

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the east of this country people await the outcome of the struggle

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against the elements and of which of the candidate might turn the

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storm to his political advantage. To discuss the political stakes of

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this perfect storm we have Robert Reich, the former labour secretary

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under Bill Clinton, in the positively Bambi conditions of 28

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degrees in California sun. And we have Zosia Mamet former adviser to

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George Bush. Start -- Pippa Malmgren, former adviser to gub.

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Will this have bir bipartisan results or favour one candidate

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over the other? I don't think the storm will have significant

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consequences in this election one way or another, to the extent that

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it has any consequences at all. It strikes me it is most likely to

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improve Obama's chances. Within the nation is in peril, or when a

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significant part of the nation is under some sort of danger, the

:09:29.:09:33.

country, at least in the United States, tends to remember why they

:09:33.:09:37.

want Government, why they want a strong Government, why leadership

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is important, why they respect and need a strong leader in the form of

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the President. Whoever is President, therefore, has a natural, almost

:09:48.:09:56.

inevitable chance to show that kind of leadership. George Bush didn't

:09:56.:10:00.

obviously win Katrina-hit New Orleans, but many politicians and

:10:00.:10:03.

Government generally have learned from Katrina, that Barack Obama is

:10:03.:10:09.

going to, he already has, taken charge. Right, Pippa Malmgren?

:10:09.:10:11.

respectfully disagree. We are used to storms all the time in the

:10:11.:10:15.

United States. This is a big one, no question about it. People

:10:15.:10:19.

wouldn't even remember Katrina had it not been for the levys being

:10:19.:10:25.

breached in New Orleans and a city coming to so much damage. It is all

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the magnitude. People also remember George Bush was said to have been

:10:28.:10:32.

extremely slow to react there? remember in the United States, it

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is not the role of the President of the United States to respond to

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this kind of event. The state authorities are the ones who define

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the response. We're in the middle of a presidential election? That is

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why the danger for President Obama is that he responds in a way that

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the public perceives to be strictly for electioneering purposes. He

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must be careful not to overplay his hand. The key thing is voter

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turnout, that is what mass most for the Democrats, anything that

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damages voter turnout is a problem for him. I think the storm will

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have passed by the time we get to polling. On one point it is

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important to know that the federal Government does have an important

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role to play. That is with the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

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That is the federal agency that co- ordinates, not only the defence

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department, Homeland Security, but other branches and agencies of

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Government, when it comes to a natural disaster. That is where

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Government -- George W Bush let America down. This is where

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President Obama can help with his public image, and in practical ways,

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to ensure that the Federal Emergency Management Agency does

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its work. Mitt Romney rgd a few week ago that under -- argued a few

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weeks ago that the agency ought to be disbanded and the responsibility

:11:59.:12:03.

left up to the state. That is an interesting perspective. Most

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natural disasters are not limited to one state. This particular

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Hurricane, Hurricane Sandy, is affecting six or seven states.

:12:13.:12:17.

Pippa Malmgren, at the very least, OK, the storm may be over by next

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Tuesday, it probably will be, but the most recent memory people will

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have of the President is of a man who appeared to be seized of the

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importance of the situation and ready to act? I think the bottom

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line is that this is not a race against George W Bush, nor is it a

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race about this Hurricane. I think this is an easy excuse to move away

:12:38.:12:43.

from the fundamental facts, which is Romney is pulling ahead in Ohio,

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which is state that isn't going to be very affected by this. Possibly,

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but in the meantime, Mitt Romney can't get out there and campaign

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about unemployment and foreign policy mistakes as he sees them and

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the rest? The Midwest isn't as affected by this as the east coast.

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The east coast is shut down, they are shutting down highways in

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connet kit. The middle of the country is where the vote will be

:13:07.:13:11.

decided. That is the key to the race. The bottom line is this is

:13:11.:13:16.

the closest presidential race in modern history, tighter than the

:13:16.:13:20.

Carter-Regan race. It will be a photo finish, and the risks is if

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Obama is lucky enough to win, he may win the Electoral College and

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lose the popular vote, which means he won't have a mandate. At best,

:13:27.:13:32.

for Romney, he can win the popular vote, and the Electoral College. I

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think that understanding the true state of play in the race is the

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most important thing to your viewers. Robert Reich? We have come

:13:41.:13:51.
:13:51.:13:51.

a long way from the storm now? most recent case of elections where

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we had a close race was Bush against Gore, I think that pippa is

:13:58.:14:04.

right, most -- Pippa is right, most Americans don't feel imperiled by

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the storm, but they are still reminded by the storm of the

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importance of Government. I think it is also important to say, that

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we all, here in the United States, and I assume you in Britain, hope

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that this storm does not have a devastatingly negative impact on

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life, and limb. The politics come secondary, nobody, I don't think

:14:28.:14:33.

anybody in washing, either Mitt Romney or -- Washington, either

:14:33.:14:36.

Mitt Romney or Barack Obama are thinking about the election at this

:14:36.:14:40.

point in time? I have to disagree, think everybody is thinking first

:14:40.:14:44.

and foremost about the election. The storm just destroys the bunting

:14:44.:14:49.

up and about in towns and places. The key here is, this is the kind

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of race where we could see the vote being so close that observers call

:14:53.:15:00.

for counts. And I do think you are right to say the Bush-Gore race,

:15:00.:15:04.

the risk that we have that kind of altercation over a small number of

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votes in a specific location, is very high, given how tight this

:15:09.:15:15.

race is. Thank you very much. Now, if you are lucky enough to

:15:15.:15:20.

earn more than �50,000, or you live with someone who earns more than

:15:20.:15:25.

�50,000 a year, and have children, look out for a letter this week. It

:15:25.:15:28.

will contain glad tidings that the amount of money you can expect the

:15:28.:15:32.

state to pay you is going to be cut. Your child benefit might even be

:15:32.:15:36.

cut to nothing. The letter is part of the attempt to cut public

:15:36.:15:40.

spending, and based on the idea that the better off should

:15:40.:15:50.
:15:50.:15:50.

contribute more than the less well off. The official inquiries and

:15:50.:15:53.

reports detail any number of Government cock-ups. But could

:15:53.:16:02.

there be a new one looming. One that we could tentatively call

:16:02.:16:09.

"baby shambles". It is going to be a lot of pain and very little gain.

:16:09.:16:14.

The Treasury thinks they will raise �2.5 billion a year from this, I

:16:14.:16:18.

suspect a lot of money will be written off, and it will be a

:16:18.:16:20.

massive administrative burden in years to come. The first couple of

:16:20.:16:24.

years it will be very, very difficult to administer. Hopefully

:16:24.:16:26.

after that it will settle down and people will understand what they

:16:27.:16:31.

need to do and not do. The changes are in child benefit,

:16:32.:16:38.

and will affect around 1.2 million families. It could mean that 70% of

:16:38.:16:42.

them lose all of their child benefit, another 30% will lose part,

:16:42.:16:48.

the average loss will be something like �1300 a year. It will mean

:16:48.:16:52.

that roughly half a million people will now have to fill in a self-

:16:52.:16:57.

assessment tax form when previously they didn't. To be fair, we don't

:16:57.:17:03.

yet know whether this will turn out to be a babyshamble, but, from

:17:03.:17:07.

January 7th nexty, George Osborne is trying to deliver on his promise

:17:07.:17:10.

to withdraw child benefit from the better off. Instead of simply not

:17:10.:17:15.

paying them the money, he wants them not to claim it. Or rather, in

:17:15.:17:18.

the official advice from HMRC, but to claim the benefit, but elect not

:17:18.:17:23.

to take the money. If they do take it, it will be clawed back from the

:17:23.:17:27.

highest paid member of the household, via the tax system. You

:17:27.:17:31.

can see why some think this might get rather complicated.

:17:31.:17:35.

difficulty is, that the mother, typically, claims the child benefit,

:17:35.:17:40.

and then, the clawback is through the self-assessment tax system. If

:17:40.:17:44.

you have, for example, a mother staying at home, not working,

:17:44.:17:49.

claiming child benefit, it is the husband who is working, if he's

:17:49.:17:53.

earning more than �50,000, he's going to have to do a self-

:17:53.:17:56.

assessment tax return, because he will have the clawback of that

:17:56.:18:02.

child been fit. And many have identified other potential problems

:18:02.:18:05.

with this. Not least many Conservative MPs think that their

:18:05.:18:09.

party should be in the business of simplifying the tax system, not

:18:09.:18:14.

adding another layer of complexity. And, they think, it also sends the

:18:14.:18:18.

wrong message as regards aspiration. David Cameron, quite rightly, made

:18:18.:18:23.

the case that we have to be on the side of aspiration, and of the

:18:23.:18:27.

strivers, at his most recent party conference. One of the biggest

:18:27.:18:30.

problems I have with what is being propose the at the moment, it is

:18:30.:18:34.

precisely those strivers, people who are aspirational, will get

:18:34.:18:39.

worst hit from this. I accept this as a central London MP, someone in

:18:39.:18:44.

my seat earning �50,000 a year isn't in the ranks of the

:18:44.:18:47.

superwealthy, which isn't like that in other parts of the UK. There is

:18:47.:18:52.

this big worry that we will end up clobbering a lot of people who are

:18:52.:18:58.

some of the most hard working people, and most likely Tory voting

:18:58.:19:01.

aspirational people. That doesn't make too much sense. This is only

:19:01.:19:08.

the Government's second attempt to get the policy right to be pair.

:19:08.:19:14.

They started off saying that higher rate taxpayers would be the ones to

:19:14.:19:19.

lose child benefit, but there were cries about cliff edge issues. Now

:19:19.:19:22.

the claimants are the better off, it shows how fiendishly difficult

:19:22.:19:26.

it is to withdraw benefits from anybody, even in the teeth of a

:19:26.:19:31.

definite reduction programme. I don't expect them to welcome this.

:19:31.:19:35.

I perfectly understand why people who don't feel wealthy, of course,

:19:35.:19:39.

may not feel wealthy at all, given all the other costs they face today,

:19:39.:19:44.

don't like this change. But I would ask them to reflect for a minute

:19:44.:19:48.

that there are many other people. The vast majority of people in this

:19:48.:19:52.

country, who are on much lower incomes than them, and who are also

:19:52.:19:55.

having to make sacrifices. When George Osborne announced this

:19:55.:19:59.

policy change, way back in 2010, he had had no intention of ever

:20:00.:20:04.

implementing it. That is why the details were so sketchy. Together,

:20:04.:20:10.

in the national interest, thank you very much. He wanted to get the

:20:10.:20:13.

political credit from being prepared to hit the better off, but

:20:13.:20:19.

would, it is argued, some time around now, say, you know what, the

:20:19.:20:23.

deficit he reduction is going so well, we don't actually have to

:20:23.:20:28.

follow through. Cue another round of applause for Mr O. In 2010 we

:20:28.:20:32.

needed to make statement about universal benefits, a statement

:20:32.:20:35.

made about being all in this together. There was hope at that

:20:35.:20:39.

juncture, by the time we were in the second half of the parliament,

:20:39.:20:42.

many of the most acute financial problems would be behind us. That's

:20:42.:20:45.

why, as I say, I'm very much supportive of the Government in

:20:45.:20:50.

trying to get the deficit down, therefore I wouldn't want to be

:20:50.:20:53.

seen that I'm just standing on behalf of a small minority. It

:20:53.:20:57.

seems to me this child benefit reform has all the makings of

:20:57.:20:59.

something that could be politically very difficult for the Government,

:21:00.:21:03.

but also it is going to raise far less money than we think. It would

:21:04.:21:10.

be a sense of injustice. Remember that the overwhelming

:21:10.:21:15.

majority of child benefit climbants won't be affected at all, --

:21:15.:21:18.

claimants won't be affected at all. Today the Government released

:21:18.:21:21.

polling data which suggested the vast majority of voters, including

:21:21.:21:25.

the better off, think this is a good idea. Whether that still holds

:21:25.:21:30.

true when it starts costing them money, that is another matter.

:21:30.:21:36.

Let's discuss a bit of this with David Grossman. There is a piece in

:21:36.:21:39.

tomorrow morning's Telegraph that is quite complicated on the legal

:21:39.:21:44.

aspect of this. Yes, the headline that child benefit cuts might be

:21:44.:21:49.

illegal. It shows how complex this issue is, and how little time the

:21:49.:21:54.

Government has to nail down all the angles on this before January 7th.

:21:54.:21:58.

The Institute of Chartered accountants of England and Wales, a

:21:58.:22:02.

trade body, have suggested in their briefing to MPs on the subject,

:22:02.:22:05.

that this move might be illegal because it is discriminatory. If

:22:05.:22:10.

you imagine two workers both on �06,000, side by side, one of them

:22:10.:22:14.

gets benefits from another European country, as they are entitled to do,

:22:14.:22:17.

because they are a national of that country, but they both pay tax in

:22:17.:22:22.

the UK. So a British person and a European national paying tax in the

:22:22.:22:27.

UK, the same rate of tax, they earn exactly the same, one of them will

:22:27.:22:31.

have their child benefit clawed back and the other won't. The

:22:31.:22:35.

chartered institute reckon that is discriminatory. Under European law.

:22:35.:22:39.

What do the Treasury say about that? The Treasury, I have been in

:22:39.:22:43.

touch, they say this is not a new objection or oh, they say they have

:22:43.:22:48.

got very -- observation, they say they have strong legal advice to

:22:48.:22:52.

say they are fully entitled to tax people in this country,

:22:52.:22:54.

irrespective of whatever benefits they get elsewhere. They are

:22:54.:22:58.

confident, but we have seen in the past that doesn't mean if it came

:22:58.:23:01.

to a legal challenge they would necessarily win.

:23:01.:23:04.

The Treasury didn't want to talk about this with us here tonight.

:23:04.:23:09.

But instead we have the Conservative MP, Nadhim Zawahi, the

:23:09.:23:13.

Shadow Treasury Minister, Chris Leslie, and Cole Porter from the

:23:13.:23:16.

Institute of Economic Affairs. Why do you want to penalise people who

:23:16.:23:23.

are working hard, and doing reasonably well? We don't. But we

:23:23.:23:28.

are, because of Chris's party, still, today, borrowing �426

:23:28.:23:34.

million a day. When we go to bed tonight, and wake up tomorrow, we

:23:34.:23:39.

will have notched up another �426 million. We have to balance the

:23:39.:23:42.

books. And we have said those with the broadest shoulders should bear

:23:43.:23:46.

the greatest pain. But you don't want to do this? Hold on a second,

:23:46.:23:51.

let me finish on this point, it is an important point. It is only the

:23:51.:23:56.

15% of the top earners in the country, who are, at the moment,

:23:56.:24:02.

the beneficiaries of the child benefit, that will be affect. 80%,

:24:02.:24:06.

your piece earlier shows will not be affected by this. I have just

:24:06.:24:11.

had a baby in the Zawahi family. Congratulations? Why should the

:24:11.:24:14.

strivers of the country, people working really hard, trying to pay

:24:14.:24:17.

their bills, when we are cutting welfare, why should they pay for

:24:17.:24:21.

child benefit for my daughter. don't know, I don't understand why

:24:21.:24:24.

you don't want to cut it. You said you don't want to cut it. You don't

:24:24.:24:29.

want to do this? We don't want to do it, because it is taking away

:24:29.:24:32.

something from people who themselves are having to cope with

:24:32.:24:36.

bills. Do you support the measure?

:24:36.:24:39.

chaotic shambles, clawing back universal child benefit. You have

:24:39.:24:44.

to be kidding, this is, by all standards, one of the most

:24:44.:24:47.

unthought through changes in the tax system. Not only are you going

:24:47.:24:50.

to get, what is it, a million people receiving letters,

:24:50.:24:55.

explaining them that, well you have to talk to your partners about your

:24:55.:25:00.

income, if you can't find out about that, you can ring up HMRC, they

:25:00.:25:04.

will tell you if partner has higher or lower earnings, but not the

:25:05.:25:09.

whole thing. The whole thing is a bureaucratic expense. Let me ask

:25:09.:25:16.

about that very question. I would love nothing more than reverse this

:25:16.:25:19.

particular policy. Heaven knows what the state of the public

:25:19.:25:22.

finances by 2015, if you think borrowing is bad now, it is going

:25:22.:25:26.

up under your Government. You are not making a commitment you would

:25:26.:25:31.

reverse it if you regain power? need a defence of some of these

:25:31.:25:34.

universal benefits. The next stop will be universal NHS. You will not

:25:35.:25:39.

defend them by restoring them? key thing to mention is they are

:25:39.:25:43.

talking about taxing the highest earners. You can't give a straight

:25:43.:25:46.

forward answer to a straight forward question? Why give a tax

:25:46.:25:52.

cut to people on �150,000 above, it is a completely inconsistent policy

:25:52.:25:56.

from the Government. You shouldn't separate out universal benefits

:25:56.:26:00.

from the wider tax system, the wealthiest people should pay more.

:26:00.:26:04.

What should you make of this decision? Picking up the point

:26:04.:26:07.

about universal benefits, when Labour left office a third of

:26:07.:26:11.

households in the UK were dependant on the state for more than half of

:26:11.:26:15.

their income. I think the principle, that you say, actually, the point

:26:15.:26:18.

of the welfare state is that it should be there to help those

:26:18.:26:24.

people who really cannot survive on their own is the right one. And in

:26:24.:26:28.

some senses I think this policy decision is a nod in this direction.

:26:28.:26:33.

The issue with it, if we're going to say that someone like Adele, or

:26:33.:26:37.

it is nonsense that someone like Adele is eligible for child benefit,

:26:37.:26:42.

equally we have to say that Paul McCartney is eligible for Winter

:26:42.:26:46.

Fuel Allowance. Do you say the same about the NHS, that is a form of

:26:46.:26:51.

welfare, if you means test child benefit, do you means test the NHS?

:26:51.:26:55.

You are in favour of Adele being eligible for child benefit, the

:26:55.:27:00.

answer to that question, is yes, you are in favour of Adele getting

:27:00.:27:04.

child benefit? I think it is important to defend the universal

:27:04.:27:09.

benefit. They should be paying more in tax. That is why the 50p rate

:27:09.:27:14.

should not be cut to give away �40,000 to people like Adele

:27:14.:27:18.

earning over �1 million a year. have to look at it in the context

:27:18.:27:25.

of the nation's finances, the reality is we are borrowing so much

:27:25.:27:28.

money to fund this, in one sense you could say the people who are

:27:28.:27:31.

going to be paying for this child benefit, because it is borrowed

:27:31.:27:34.

money, it will be the children themselves. It will be their tax

:27:34.:27:37.

when they grow up. We are passing the bill for this massive welfare

:27:37.:27:40.

state on to our children and the next generation. We have to deal

:27:40.:27:46.

with those things. Have you seen how much it will cost to administer

:27:46.:27:55.

the complex system. �1.7 billion every year, you kiep saying, your

:27:55.:27:57.

party keeps saying that -- keep saying, your party keeps saying

:27:57.:28:01.

that you want to cut the spending of the state, and make sure you act

:28:01.:28:05.

responsibly, this time round, please believe in us. Every time we

:28:06.:28:09.

introduce something that delivers some of that, you go against it. I

:28:09.:28:12.

would like you to explain to your voters, the polling evidence,

:28:12.:28:16.

including those people adversely affected. Your opinion poll.

:28:16.:28:20.

wasn't mine. The Conservative Party opinion poll. It wasn't my opinion

:28:20.:28:24.

poll. It was done by Populus, which is an independent pollster.

:28:24.:28:27.

Commissioned by the Conservative Party. It doesn't matter if it was

:28:27.:28:33.

commissioned, you commission polls do. It does. The majority of people

:28:33.:28:36.

adversely affected by the policy support it. Explain that to the

:28:36.:28:40.

voters at the next election, and explain to them that you will

:28:40.:28:42.

reverse this? The cost for childcare for getting by, for

:28:42.:28:45.

people on middle incomes, who are striving to do their best, are just

:28:45.:28:50.

going to get worse because of this policy S the cost of administering

:28:50.:28:54.

it are phenomenal. The Treasury are saying over �100 million. What is

:28:54.:28:58.

worse, if you really believed in taking money from those highest

:28:58.:29:04.

earners, you wouldn't be giving away such a task to those earning

:29:04.:29:07.

over �150,000. Commit live on Newsnight you will reverse it.

:29:07.:29:11.

has already refused to do that. There you go, that is your answer.

:29:11.:29:15.

It is a difference between the parties, I think we should tax the

:29:15.:29:19.

highest earners, that 1%, much more. Where is public opinion, their

:29:20.:29:22.

trading opinions about opinion polls. Do you think we have reached

:29:22.:29:27.

a stage in this country now, where people consider that the state has

:29:27.:29:32.

an obligation towards a new born child, regardless of the level of

:29:32.:29:35.

wealth of the parents? I think what is interesting is when you look at

:29:35.:29:38.

different polls around at the moment, you find that actually the

:29:38.:29:42.

public is in favour of things like getting rid of lots of these, like

:29:42.:29:45.

Winter Fuel Allowance. They are in favour of that. Do you think the

:29:45.:29:48.

state has a role, doesn't it? does believe the state has a role.

:29:48.:29:51.

But I think people are very concerned about the level of

:29:51.:29:54.

borrowing, they understand we need some reform. When you look at what

:29:54.:29:59.

Government has become, in some sense it has almost become this

:29:59.:30:02.

arbiter between different interest groups lobbying Government to try

:30:02.:30:07.

to get as much money redistribute today their demographic. I think

:30:07.:30:10.

people don't like that, they are waking up to that. Part of the

:30:10.:30:13.

reason we are seeing people, saying this situation is absurd, that

:30:13.:30:17.

these very wealthy people are geting these universal benefits.

:30:18.:30:22.

Juef the tax system to do it. We can't afford, that it is stifling

:30:22.:30:26.

the economy. It is why we have a million unemployed people in this

:30:26.:30:33.

country. Do you think someone on �50,000 a year is rich? It depends

:30:33.:30:38.

on things like where people live in the country. I know loads of people

:30:38.:30:43.

on �50,000, who are doing a sum about the affects for their family.

:30:43.:30:47.

Why not let people keep more of their money. The context of the

:30:47.:30:50.

discussion, at the same time the Government is bringing more people

:30:50.:30:54.

into the 40p rate. There needs to be a principle and discussion, to

:30:54.:30:57.

say what kind of country do we want to be. Do we want to be a country

:30:58.:31:05.

where we go back to next month's the 70-year anniversary of Bevanage,

:31:05.:31:10.

do we want to be a welfare state supporting those who need support,

:31:10.:31:15.

or do we want to be a country where we actually spend so much we have

:31:15.:31:20.

to borrow to fund that? By the end of this parliament, the people

:31:20.:31:25.

earning up to �10,000 are taken out of the tax system, they don't pay

:31:25.:31:28.

any tax. I'm proud to say I'm part of the Government that delivered.

:31:28.:31:31.

That that's the direction of flow from this Government, we would like

:31:31.:31:36.

to hear what the policy-free zone from the Labour Party says about

:31:36.:31:41.

that. We disagree on this, it is the thin end of the wedge, all of

:31:41.:31:44.

the arguments apply to the universal NHS, which is also part

:31:44.:31:46.

of those core welfare principles. It is about what sort of society

:31:46.:31:51.

you believe in. If you think that people on higher incomes need to be

:31:51.:31:54.

paying more, well you do it through the progressive tax system. What

:31:54.:31:58.

you don't do is give it a �3 billion tax cut to millionaire, it

:31:58.:32:04.

is very simple. We have ring-fenced it, you will cut it. It is the

:32:04.:32:07.

slippery slope. We are told we are in the throws of

:32:07.:32:12.

a second Industrial Revolution in which -- thros of a second

:32:12.:32:15.

Industrial Revolution, where science transforms the way we do

:32:15.:32:20.

everything. One of the most transformative technologies is 3D

:32:20.:32:25.

printing t sounds absurd and impossible. It promises to

:32:25.:32:30.

refashion whole areas of design. We will see what the 3D printer in the

:32:30.:32:40.
:32:40.:32:43.

studio is doing. Beautifully created objects made with care and

:32:43.:32:51.

decision. -- precision. They weren't been sculpted, cast or

:32:51.:32:57.

machine pressed, a different process has been deployed. This is

:32:57.:33:07.
:33:07.:33:08.

3D printing. At a design studio in London's Shoreditch, they cannot

:33:08.:33:11.

only conceive product, they can make them. Thanks to a technology

:33:11.:33:15.

that is falling in price and so becoming more accessible. It allows

:33:15.:33:24.

you to make, just about anything. I'm being scanned, with software,

:33:24.:33:29.

then building a precise template of my face. That will then be used to

:33:29.:33:34.

print out a 3D me. So I have been scanned, what's next in the process.

:33:34.:33:39.

We take that data and prepare it into a 3D print-ready file. We take

:33:39.:33:43.

it over here to this machine. don't send it off to a factory

:33:43.:33:47.

somewhere. Right here, it is an office-friendly machine, sitting in

:33:47.:33:54.

the corner, humming away. This will print your file layer by layer.

:33:54.:33:58.

This machine prints in a powder- based material. It is a whole new

:33:58.:34:01.

way of producing particular customised and individual objects,

:34:01.:34:04.

individual to the user, I think that is one of the fantastic things

:34:05.:34:09.

about 3D printing, and the ability to have it in your hand within

:34:09.:34:19.
:34:19.:34:35.

hours rather than waiting for it to be shipped around the world. Let's

:34:35.:34:40.

have a look. There I am, complete with chain! It would have been

:34:40.:34:43.

possible to make a mini-me like this many years ago, but it would

:34:43.:34:48.

have been much more expensive and time-consuming. What 3D printing

:34:48.:34:51.

has begun to do is take manufacturing out of the factory

:34:51.:34:55.

and into a small design studio like this. But there are some who

:34:55.:35:00.

believe it can go much further. Heralding a whole new Industrial

:35:00.:35:09.

Revolution. So, what is 3D printing? It starts with a digital

:35:09.:35:15.

design or scan, that's then fed into the printer. The process is

:35:15.:35:18.

also called additive manufacturing, because it involves building up

:35:18.:35:23.

objects, layer by layer, rather than pressing them out. Right now a

:35:23.:35:29.

limited range of material can be used. Mainly plastics and resin.

:35:29.:35:33.

But the first metal printers are emerging. It is a big fall in

:35:33.:35:38.

primes that is driving take up. In 2002, even a budget 3D printer

:35:38.:35:44.

might have cost �20,000, today you can get a desktop device for under

:35:44.:35:48.

�1,000. The range of objects the technology can deliver keeps

:35:48.:35:52.

expanding. In the medical world it is being used in dental work. And

:35:52.:35:59.

this is a replacement jawbone, built out of titanium powder. The

:35:59.:36:07.

fashion industry is experimenting, here is a 3D bikini. This flute

:36:07.:36:14.

came out, but needs fine tuning. At lock burrow university they are

:36:14.:36:17.

even printing concrete and wondering how the construction

:36:17.:36:21.

industry can be transformed. For some this is a revolution that

:36:21.:36:26.

starts at home. The great drive for me is to improve the quality of

:36:26.:36:32.

home 3D printing. In his loafing room in South-East London, Paul

:36:32.:36:38.

devotes -- living room in South- East London, Paul devotes his time

:36:38.:36:48.

to improve 3D printing. He has developed printing of a 50th of a

:36:48.:36:51.

millimeter thick. It wasn't long ago people thought you wouldn't

:36:51.:36:55.

have a computer in every single home. You certainly wouldn't have a

:36:55.:36:59.

nice colour printer in every home. Now every home has at least one

:36:59.:37:02.

printer. When you get to the stage where you have to load a file,

:37:02.:37:07.

press a button. That will be the stage where they will become

:37:07.:37:12.

mainstream. Paul is part of an on- line movement, which uploads and

:37:12.:37:17.

shares designs for other 3D printer hobbyists to download. There in

:37:17.:37:21.

lies a looming problem. Any revolutionary new technology

:37:22.:37:25.

provides both opportunities and threats, just ask the music

:37:25.:37:29.

industry. As 3D printing becomes more common place, the value of the

:37:29.:37:33.

digital designs fed into the printers should rise. But so will

:37:33.:37:38.

the threat of piracy. Once your designs have escaped on to the

:37:38.:37:41.

Internet, there is nothing to stop anyone anywhere from printing out

:37:41.:37:45.

your products without your permission. So, one industry should

:37:45.:37:49.

benefit from the rise of 3D printing, that is the patent

:37:49.:37:54.

lawyers. This is a 3D print. These, for

:37:54.:38:00.

instance, are rare art facts from Cambridge's Fitzwilliam Museum, or

:38:00.:38:04.

rather replicas. 3D printed for the museum shop. Ownership of the scans

:38:04.:38:10.

that produces these objects could be very valuable. But one leading

:38:10.:38:14.

designer thinks the new technology could help outwit the copiers.

:38:14.:38:17.

time to market place will be quicker, that is crucial in the

:38:17.:38:20.

world of intellectual property, where you need to get out there

:38:20.:38:24.

quickly and take advantage of your intention before someone copies it.

:38:24.:38:29.

At the Royal College of Art's new dies on Building, some graduates

:38:29.:38:34.

are being helped to turn student ideas into real product. 3D

:38:34.:38:38.

printing is already an essential part of making proto-type, soon it

:38:38.:38:41.

could transform how products are manufactured. You can be

:38:41.:38:46.

independent, you don't need tool makers, moulder, caster, foundries,

:38:46.:38:51.

you can do it all your self, with a relatively simple, I hope, machine,

:38:51.:38:54.

you can make things all over the place. You could make them very

:38:54.:38:58.

locally, to each country you are selling in. You could get rid of

:38:58.:39:03.

freight costs and import duties and all sorts of things. I think,

:39:03.:39:10.

eventually, it will completely transform the way products are made.

:39:10.:39:15.

From the hobbyist experimenting at home, to industrial designers, with

:39:15.:39:19.

ever more sophisticated technique, 3D printing is advancing on all

:39:19.:39:23.

fronts. Just like virtual reality in the 1990, it is the subject of

:39:23.:39:28.

huge, perhaps inflated expectation. But its exponents believe this is a

:39:28.:39:32.

revolution that will deliver on its promise.

:39:32.:39:36.

We come behind the set, where one of the these printers has been

:39:36.:39:40.

whirring away, throughout the programme, and with us is Paul

:39:40.:39:49.

Webber from the 3D printing can be, object. It has clunked? It is

:39:49.:39:53.

paused. What is it making? It is printing, let me open the lid and

:39:53.:39:58.

you can have a lock. It has been printing 12 pens at the moment. It

:39:58.:40:01.

has been printing them in multiple material. So there is some begins

:40:02.:40:06.

on the cabinet behind you, I have also got one here you can have a

:40:06.:40:11.

look at it. It is a complicated lattice work over a spiral struck

:40:11.:40:15.

tue, that you could never normally -- structure, that you couldn't

:40:15.:40:20.

norm r never normally produce it t only these technologies can only

:40:20.:40:25.

produce it. With the particular parts, printing with rubber and

:40:25.:40:30.

rigid material at the same time. has done this from a drawing, has

:40:30.:40:35.

it? That's right. It is digital forming developed the software to

:40:35.:40:40.

create the pens. Someone has put a drawing in, and what comes out at

:40:40.:40:45.

the end is the complete 3D object? It is the complete pen without the

:40:45.:40:50.

ink stick. There is no ink in it? That is a bit of a problem with a

:40:50.:40:58.

pen. You do need that. Can I pick unup. Will I burn my hand. You have

:40:58.:41:03.

some there -- Can I pick the pen up. Will I burn my head. These are some

:41:03.:41:07.

you made earlier. They are all stuck to the tray. If you do this,

:41:07.:41:15.

it takes it off. It -- It has a substance around it, it can't print

:41:15.:41:21.

the cast in midair. It is printing a jelly-like structure to keep it

:41:21.:41:25.

in place, it gets washed away at the end of the process and you have

:41:25.:41:30.

what you have in the hand. Does this have a domestic application or

:41:30.:41:37.

is it really industrial? Printers are not used commonly for

:41:37.:41:43.

manufacture at this point in time. There is certain places where it is

:41:43.:41:47.

used for manufacture, most are medical-related. They are adept at

:41:47.:41:50.

printing one-off piece, with the likes of a hearing aid, we have

:41:50.:42:00.

that over there. There is over 300,000. I have one here. OK, right.

:42:00.:42:05.

Let's see. Hearing aid, stick some wax in your ear and take an

:42:05.:42:09.

impression and mould a bit of plastic around it, that is done,

:42:10.:42:16.

how? The doctor will actually put an algenate substance in your ear

:42:16.:42:22.

to get an impression. Your inner ear is as bespoke as your finger

:42:22.:42:27.

print. It gets taken out of your ear, three dimensionly scanned, and

:42:27.:42:32.

adapted in software, so it is an appropriate fit, and has an

:42:32.:42:36.

appropriate channel to have the electronics fitted. These are all

:42:36.:42:42.

the other things you have made from drawings? Presumably you could go

:42:42.:42:46.

on-line, presumably and pick up a design, and then download it to one

:42:46.:42:51.

of these printers and get the actual product?? Absolutely. The

:42:51.:42:54.

way things are going with the future, there is already sites

:42:55.:42:59.

established where you can download a file and print T because not so

:42:59.:43:02.

many people have home printer systems at the moment, the sites

:43:02.:43:07.

are few and far between. How much do these cost? These start at �15

:43:07.:43:16.

though, but go all the way up to well in secs of �-- in excess of �

:43:16.:43:21.

50,000. You won't put these in people's homes? They have them in

:43:21.:43:26.

houses now to facilitate clientele and bring business their way.

:43:26.:43:30.

is bad news if you make machine tools? It can be, this can print

:43:30.:43:34.

the impossible. You can literally print a ship in a bottle. You can

:43:34.:43:39.

make a ship in a bottle? Yes, it is additive manufacturing, it is

:43:39.:43:42.

basically putting one layer on top of the other, you are not held by

:43:42.:43:47.

the constraints of CNC, where you are whittling away at a block to

:43:47.:43:51.

try to create the finished item. With this type of technology, the

:43:51.:43:55.

world is your oyster. Thank you very much, that's all for tonight.

:43:55.:43:59.

We will no doubt see what damage Sandy doss bit morning. Hopefully

:43:59.:44:09.
:44:09.:44:35.

everyone stays safe. I will be back Hello there, we have had some

:44:35.:44:38.

relatively quiet weather so far this week across the UK. Actually

:44:38.:44:42.

through Tuesday we will have sunny spells across England and Wales.

:44:42.:44:46.

More cloud and rain gathers up into the North West, it turns

:44:46.:44:49.

increasingly breezy. A rather cool feel here. The North West of

:44:49.:44:52.

England will have showers first thing in the morning. To the east

:44:52.:44:56.

sunny spells, perhaps highs of around eight or nine. The south-

:44:56.:45:01.

east corner, highs of ten or 11. Disappointingly cool for this time

:45:01.:45:05.

of year. Fine and dry along the south coast, an increase of cloud

:45:05.:45:10.

for Cornwall and western Wales. For the south-east, Cardiff should see

:45:10.:45:15.

highs of ten degrees isolated showers into Anglesey, into the

:45:15.:45:19.

North West of eing lan. Most of the showers should confine themselves

:45:19.:45:24.

to the far north coast. Increasingly strong winds, and

:45:24.:45:29.

persistent rain, after a cool start. A disappointing feel in Scotland.

:45:29.:45:34.

It stays cool, wet and windy Tuesday into Wednesday, for much of

:45:34.:45:37.

northern England, Northern Ireland, and for Scotland. A little quieter

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further south. We keep the sunny spells. But the cloud will thicken

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for England and Wales during Wednesday. With rain arriving late

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