02/05/2013 Newsnight

Should we intervene in Syria and even if we wanted to could we

afford to? Tonight the Defence Secretary says more evidence of

chemical weapons is needed before Britain can act.

But can Britain even think of remaining a first-rate military

power as this Government hopes? Should we ring-fence the defence

budget for curtail their ambitions? The Defence Secretary Philip

Hammond in Washington for talks with the Americans will join us

live. Also tonight, from Pakistan we meet

the Mullah who thinks women should be educated to know their

boundaries. He has some advice for our reporter.

TRANSLATION: As a Muslim, first of all you should be wearing a burka,

according to Sharia Law. Secondly, you shouldn't be travelling around

without a male chaperone. The polls have just closed, the

politicians are getting their excuses ready. We will have the

latest on the local elections. And happy birthday Bollywood, 100

years young tomorrow. How has it reflected Indian culture and

informed snim film makers here. We discuss with a Bollywood actress

and the director of Bride ska Prejudice.

Good evening, the Cabinet Office website is clear, national security

is the first duty of Government. We will remain a first-rate military

power. But even as British troops begin to leave Afghanistan, there

are new shaud shadows and threats. Tonight the American Defence

Secretary, Chuck Hagel, said for the first time that the Obinna

administration is re-thinking whether to arm -- Obama

administration is re-thinking whether to arm rebels in Syria. No

decision has been named. With this comes an age-old problem, money.

With the security review and cuts to the budget already announced,

the Royal United Services Institute suggests another �11 billion will

have to be loped off defence over the next decade. Should we ring-

fence defence, as with the NHS and foreign aid, or be less ambitious

in our foreign commitments. We will explore with the Defence Secretary

in a moment. First a series of hard choices.

Just as Gordon Brown tried to abolish boom and bust economics, so

they came to rescue the defence budget from its post-war boom with

cuts to balance the books. In 2010, during the last review, they tried

to set sustainable limits on future operations. The forces might mount

one short-term deployment of up to 30,000. Or, one enduring one of

6,500, with two smaller simultaneous operations of around

2,000 and 1,000. Or three sustained small-scale operations. The current

enduring commitment in Afghanistan is coming to an end. UK forces no

longer launch combat operations, many are now just packing up. But

their presence remains risky as we have seen this week. There are

around 7,000 British personnel there now, and by late 2014 that

presence will end. But military chiefs are nervous about new

commitments. The Prime Minister wants to send more troops to Africa,

and a possible Syrian intervention could involve thousands. The

prospect of further cuts as part of the Government's deficit reduction

programme has produced public grumbling from the Defence

Secretary, Tory backbenchers are increasingly restive and demanding

ring-fencing defence or raiding international development instead.

Protecting up to now in order to make good the shortfall at MoD. And

costs within the department have risen too, the F-35 fighter project

has increased its price tag and is running years late. After

expressing an initial interest in acquiring more than 130 of them,

Britain looks set to trim that back to just 48. Both F-35 and the

aircraft carrier that will launch the aircraft haven't been helped by

a Government flip-flop. Initially towards a more capable, catapult-

launched version of the plane and back to the short take-off version

originally ordered. In terms of the cost of the aircraft carriers

themselves, it was originally estimated at �3.65 billion, now

around �6 billion, but some estimates suggest they soon

eventually weigh in at something closer to �12 billion. Cost

overruns have a history of consuming other parts of the

defence budget, leading to cuts and cancellations. The slow but

inexorable downLuiz Eduardo slide in squadrons or battalions has

slowly reduced national forces. Therefore, it could be argued the

UK's influence goes. Back in the 1950s 11% of Britain's economy or

GDP was devoted to defence. For the last few years it has hovered

around 2%. The UK's defence resources may have diminished but

its leaders still like to retain an influence in world affairs.

The Defence Secretary, Philip Hammond, has been meeting with his

US counterpart, Chuck Hagel, in Washington today. He joins us from

there. Good evening to you Mr Hammond. Chuck Hagel says that the

Americans are now re-thinking this question of arming the Syrian

opposition, given the doubts that some have expressed, including

yourself about whether chemical weapons really have been used or

not, what is there to re-think? Well, the Americans have said today

that they are re-thinking whether to use, whether to supply weapons

to the opposition? We have never closed off that option. We

currently have a European arms embargo which expires at the end of

May. We haven't yet decided what approach we are going to take to

any renewal on modification of that embargo. We want to keep all our

options open as we work out the best way to deal with this

despicable regime, which is slaughtering its people by the

thousands. Indeed, but given the reports about chemical weapons what

more do you need, what would be your red line? In terms,

specifically of chemical weapon usage, I think we have been very

clear that we have evidence which is quite compelling but is not

conclusive around the use of chemical weapons. Now the use of

chemical weapons is explicitly illegal under international law. If

we are going to build an interNational Coalition behind a

response to a use of chemical weapons, we have to have evidence

that has happened. We need to build that evidence in a form that is

incontravertable and can be present today the international community

ideally in the forum of the United Nations Security Council. That is

hugely difficult to do, to be 100% certain in a closed-off area, where

chemical weapons have been used. Is it going to happen again and again

and again, you will have evidence which is not going to be 100%, more

people will die? Firstly, the United Nations of course has

mandated a mission to Syria to investigate the use of chemical

weapons. This was something that initial low the Syrian Government

itself -- initially the Syrian Government itself encouraged. They

are currently blocking access. We demand the Syrian Government admits

the UN team and co-operates with the UN team. We are not looking

solely on that route, we are looking with allies for ways to

validate chemical weapons usage. wonder what you say to the very

good friend of the UK, senator John McCain, saying you have all the

evidence you need about the awfulness of this ray genome and

chemical weapons but you are stalling because and the Obama

administration don't want to get involved in a mess? We have plenty

of evidence of the awfulness of the regime, but John McCain is wrong if

he says we have conclusive evidence of the use of chemical weapons. We

have certainly got some very persuasive evidence. If we set

ourselves the test of whether this evidence would be persuasive in a

UK or a US court we still don't have evidence of that quality.

Given the experience that we have had in both the UK and the US in

relation to the Iraq War and the evidence that was presented to

support our intervention there, I think it is very clear that our

publics will expect us to leave no stone unturned in establishing that

the evidence is compelling and conclusive before we take any

further action. Chuck Hagel also said you have been advising him

today on how to cut defence budgets, what have you been tell him? We are

a couple of years ahead of the US, I'm afraid, in this area. We

carried out our defence review in 2010. Since then we have been

restructuring the way we deliver defence. Making our Armed Forces

smaller but better equipped and more agile. Focusing on

deployability to make our forces usable. And also taking out large

chunks of the Ministry of Defence, about a third of the civilian man

power that we have in defence. Doing things differently. We

announced just last week that we are moving into the next phase of a

process of looking at bringing private sector partners into the

procurement of defence equipment to try to overcome some of the long

standing persistent problems that there have been around delivering

these big equipment programmes on time and on budget. We have got

quite a lot that we can offer the United States by way of experience.

Also, by co-operating together with the US we can drive further

efficencies in the delivery of military equipment and indeed in

the delivery of military capability. You have further cuts ahead and the

defence budget was about 4% of GDP20 years ago, it is 2% of GDP

now. Should the defence budget be ring-fenced if national security is

the first duty of Government as the Cabinet Office website says.

have to resource defence properly to cover the things outlined in the

budget. Should it be ring-fenced? We have identified the outputs we

have to deliver. We have to deliver those outputs. So it should be

ring-fenced then? Ring-fencing implies that you fix the cash

amount. What I'm more interested in is not the cash amount but the

output that we are delivering. If there are more efficient, smarter

ways of delivering the defence output that we need, then we

absolutely should investigate those. For example, we currently spend

about �7 billion a year on supporting our existing equipment

in service. We have started to look with the Treasury, with the Cabinet

Office at some of those contracts, how we could restructure them, how

we could incentivise the contractors who support us in

different ways to make that support of our equipment more efficient and

more effective. That is a net win. As you know the NHS, schools and

the foreign aid budget is supposedly ring-fenced, are you

really going to argue they are more important than what is the first

duty of Government? Well, look, those budgets are ring-fenced

because we made commitments to ring-fence them. There is a very

strong and cogent view that if politicians make promises, we made

promises in both the case of the health budget and the overseas aid

budget. Would you have to take money from those budgets to help

out your budget? If we make promises we should stick to them.

Health and defence have a very close collaboration already.

Defence medical services is dependant on the NHS for staff to

provide our frontline services in Afghanistan. The NHS supports us in

that way. Defence medical services works very closely with the NHS, we

should try to make that co- operation more efficient and more

effective. Some of that loose change for first-rate military

powers, with respect, you may make some very sound savings and you may

be able to redistribute a bit of money, but this is not going to be

the first-rate military power you would like and the military would

like in the future, is it? The UK retains a broad speck strum

military -- spectrum military capability. We are the United

States's most capable partner, we intend to remain that way. We will

still have, even after this process the fourth-largest defence budget

in the world. So don't let's talk ourselves down. Let's focus on what

we are doing to make sure that the budget we have delivers the maximum

possible amount of military capability. Not just expressed in

terms of numbers, but expressed in terms of their ability to deliver

military effect. There are many countries around the world with

bigger militaries than our's, they are not as deployable or as usable

or as effective. Just a final thought on the big political topic

tonight, which is obviously the polls have closed, the mid-term

elections in which local Government elections, mid-term Governments

usually get hammered, is that what you were expecting? Well, we're a

mid-term Government, we are a Government that has taken some

incredibly tough decisions to clean up the mess that we interited from

the previous Labour Government -- inherited from the previous

Government. We are also fighting these elections over a high water

mark of discontent with the previous Government when the last

local elections were held. We are expecting to lose seats, any point

in this cycle against that backdrop would be expect to go lose seats.

Labour has to make significant gains to have any credibility at

all. Have you decided as a party whether UKIP are a bunch of clowns

and loonies, as some leading Conservatives think, or whether

they are actually just disaffected Conservatives who should be brought

back into the fold? I think UKIP represents the disaffected of the

electorate. There always has to be a party which people who are just

disaffected with politics can vote for. For much of the last few

decades the Liberal Democrats provided that role. But now they

are a part of the Government many dissident voters who simply want to

say "none of the above" will have to find a new place to go. I

suspect that UKIP is attracting some of those voters. I shouldn't

avoid the fact that the agenda that UKIP has put forward has identified

some issues which are of concern to voters, not just Conservatives, but

across the spectrum. And it is a challenge, a quite proper challenge,

to the mainstream political parties to address those concerns, take

them head on and deal with them if we want to persuade those voters

that come the general election they should vote Conservative in order

to get a Government which is committed to a referendum on the

European Union and committed to renegotiating with the European

Union the terms on which we would be prepared to remain members of

that union. Secretary of State thank you very

much for joining us from Washington. Still to come:

Hurray for Bollywood, celebrating 100 years of Indian cinema.

The polls have closed, the excuses are being made ready by politicians

of the various parties who perhaps expect to do less well than

expected. It will take a while to figure out who is up and who is

down, the local elections in many areas of England and Wales, but our

political editor joins us from the count in Harlow in Essex.

A lot of people are doing their expectation management, or

preparing to do so. I wondered if you can cut through it and tell us

what is going on? Gavin that is incredibly hard in the best of

years but this year even more so. This is the first one where UKIP

makes its splash and we figure out just how much water is displaced

around the country. Downing Street are briefing they are expecting

losses for the Conservatives of around 550, 5780 80. -- 580. If you

slash off 150 that is about 400 losses, the last time they won

these was at high water mark before the last election and Gordon Brown

was doing badly. 400 is what independent analysts are telling us

what they will get. The losses are bad, but I don't think it is

Armageddon, especially when you look at the UKIP unknown factor.

One of the things choppy in every party HQ this evening is exactly

how UKIP has affected that. People can't quite call it when orderly

about this time of night you do get some certain ideas. Somewhere like

here in Essex where the boxes have come in, I think Labour have

probably done pretty well. Labour are quietly confident this evening.

They get a around possibly, and it falls here, they could be looking

at 350 gains. Again last time it was a very, very low point for them.

So 350 is sort of where they should be getting, equally if they weren't

getting it you can be sure they will be in for a kicking tomorrow.

We don't quit he -- quite know. UKIP, if it does end up being

isolated on the right flank, it end up seeing some Lib Dems coming

through the middle, then that last fiendish question, the trouble for

me with UKIP, one of them is their own ranks brief different things.

When you are trying to bust the spin, you are trying to bust the

spin within them. Some are saying yeah that 100 is still within sight,

they crested and give everyone a shock. Others are saying, no, we

really do have a problem of being spread so evenly across the country

that actually we can't achieve the spikes we need to be getting the

council seats they think about 40, 50. Independent people I speak to,

who have their own little secret models think that is probably more

right. We just simply do not know, it will probably be about lunchtime

tomorrow when we begin to get a certain idea. I suppose that means

it won't tell us much about the result of the next general election,

but it might tell us, the campaign might tell us about how the general

election will be fought? Locals rarely tell you very much about a

general election in two years time. What I think about the locals is

they will set the weather for how that drum beat towards it is fought.

You have already seen it with the Prime Minister two days ago saying

what he said about possibly bringing forward the EU referendum

date. What we will figure out this evening, when we see what happens

in South Shields, the by-election also coming in, that looks like

UKIP come a very, very good secretary with the Tories and Lib

Dems collapsing. If you have UK doing well around the country and

in the north they become a National Party, something you can't say of

Labour or the Tories at the moment. They scramble both ends in terms it

of Labour and the Tories. You begin to get both those leaders starting

to tailor their policies to show they are listening. For the reasons

that Philip Hammond has said, which is all the mainstream parties have

questions to answer about a massive disengagment. We have been out in

Harlow and Essex today we have heard that from almost everybody we

have spoken to. I don't think you can, as ever, read into the general

election, what you do see is policies being tailored to take on

the U kill. Trend. One massive health -- UKIP. One massive health

warning is yes they may have a trend tomorrow, and a good year

next year with the European elections, we still don't know if

they have an apparatus for a general election victory, one seat,

ten seats. We don't know if that is in their sights, whether they are

happy to be scrambling the signal in Westminster, but not really ever

going to Westminster. Thank you very much. Imagine, if

you can, that some religious leader where you live decides that today

is No Women Day on the streets of your home town. Precisely that was

happening in parts of Pakistan. A country which is shortly to go to

the polls with all the trappings of an election in a vigorous democracy.

The shooting of a schoolgirl last year, now worldwide known as Malala,

for the supposed crime of daring to want an education, shows that

Pakistan remains a country in which some places even the most basic of

rights or ambitions can be denied women and girls. The shooting took

place as Malala and her school friends sat on a school bus in the

Swat Valley, which has seen intense fighting between the army and the

Taliban. The BBC's Nel Hedayat, who grew up in Pakistan, has returned

to the country to find out what the story of Malala might mean for the

way the country is going, whatever the elections decide.

I have arrived in Pakistan 18 years since I left the country I grew up

in. I was born in Kabul, but crossed the border seeking refuge

from the mujahideen and Taliban and spent six years living here. I

remember turning on the TV on the 9th October 2012 and seeing images

of a small girl on a stretcher, with the news reader saying she was

shot by the Taliban for campaigning for girls' education. I remembered

Pakistan as somewhere safe for girls like us to grow up in. What

happened to Malala in the Swat Valley shocked me. I wanted to find

out how something like this could happen and what the girls on whose

behalf she was fighting for are going through.

I'm on my way to meet Malala's close friends. They are not as well

known as Malala, but they were also shot when the Taliban opened fire

inside their school bus. The girls have lived all their lives in Swat,

and tell me what it was like when the Taliban came in. TRANSLATION:

We still remember the days when our school would open for one day and

close for ten. Nobody could concentrate on their education.

When we went outside the market was shut, there was nothing to eat, and

they tell us to wear a burka. girls tell me they would often tune

into Taliban FM to find out if the Mullah had declared a No Women Day

on the streets of Swat. TRANSLATION: They didn't want girls

to get an education, they made it impossible for us to go to school.

We couldn't even wear our school uniforms because that would

identify us as students and put our lives in danger. We were scared.

But Malala is the kind of girl that even in those circumstances she

chose to write her diary. She didn't write it against them, she

wrote it about herself, about what was happening every day and that it

shouldn't be happening and why was it happening? The Taliban wanted to

control every aspect of life in Swat, and they did it by using

terror. Bombings, executions and flogs in the market became a part

of life. At its worst the Taliban blew up over 400 schools in Swat

alone. The situation got so bad that the girls had to abandon their

homes. The Pakistani army moved in to fight the Taliban and the second

battle of Swat began. TRANSLATION: When we finally went whack to Swat,

we saw so much blood. What did you see? TRANSLATION: I saw a man lying

dead near our home. TRANSLATION: Everything was destroyed, but we

were happy to be home. Although it was rubble it was still our home

town. Despite the offence ive by the Pakistani army -- offensive by

the Pakistan army that left the girls' home town like this, then

came the attack on the school bus that nearly killed their friend

Malala and injured them. This man came and shot young girls, why? Did

you know why? TRANSLATION: Why did he shoot us? Because they don't

believe girls should go to school. But that is what Malala questioned

and what she campaigned for, it is probably why she got attacked. But

how could we know what they were thinking, what went through their

minds to shoot small, young girls. I don't know. Malala is now living

with her father in Birmingham, where she goes to school and

receives treatment. But the girls still live in Swat, they go to

school, but have armed guards, always fearing that the peace

offered by the army's presence there may not stop an attack by the

Taliban. A few months ago there was an explosion behind one of the

girl's houses, it scared her and her family. TRANSLATION:

neighbours said I was the target, but that they missed and hit our

neighbour's house. What's happened that day in October has changed

their lives completely. Spending a day with the girls I can see that

they still live in fear of the Taliban. But this hasn't deterred

them. They believe in Malala's message and will make sure it lives

on in Swat. TRANSLATION: Our fight is for education, they say that

girls shouldn't get an education, we say girls will get an education.

Because it is our right. If it had said in Islam that we shouldn't be

educated then our parents would have stopped us. But our parents

support us and tell us that whatever our ambition is we should

try to achieve it. So this is the thing that everybody, everybody

should fight for. Because it is through education that man walked

on the moon. The fight goes on, although it is the constitutional

right of all children to go to school here, Pakistan has the

second highest rate of children not in education in the world, reaching

5.1 million, three million of which are girls. And it has got worse as

the Government has continuously cut funding. In fact Pakistan spends

seven-times more on its military than primary education. But there

are certain types of schools that are thriving. Mainly because they

are free for the poor. I'm at the one of the branches of the Red

Mosque, the famous mosque in Pakistan. I'm going to meet the man

who runs the women's Madras sa, the Islamic school for -- Madrassah,

the Islamic school for girls. And I can meet his wife as well and learn

what do girls learn there and what is the point of this school? The

Red Mosque became the battleground between the hardline followers of

the Madrassah leader and the Pakistani army in 2007. The

Government launched its offensive in response to vigilante action

carried out by the female students. During the clashes both men and

women were armed and fought hard against the Government forces.

After nine days of intense violence from both sides, the Mullah had

lost and dozens of students were killed. I'm about to meet the

Mullah himself, a powerful man with thousands of devoted followers, man

who has been linked to the Taliban. For me to be here is a really big

deal. For them to even speak to me is a big deal. I spent over two

hours with the Mullah and he was meticulous in his efforts to never

look directly at me, as this would be unIslamic in his view. One of

his disciples did make the mistake and he was quickly reprimanded. He

told hem h him to look down and not to look at me. For the Mullah, what

Islam says about your place in society is what matters most and

that's what the thousands of female students that come through the

Madrassah learn. TRANSLATION: woman has boundaries she has to

live within in, and men have boundaries too, without these

boundaries society would disintegrate, as it has in the west.

Unfortunately there, women have become play things. I'm an educated

girl, I'm a journalist, I travel the world. In your opinion I

probably may be step outside of that Islamic boundaries. Is what

I'm doing wrong? TRANSLATION: Muslim first of all you should be

wearing a burka, according to Sharia Law. Secondly, you shouldn't

be travelling around without a male chaperone, it is not right for you

to travel abroad without a male chaperone.

It becomes clear that the Mullah is not against the education of women,

so long as it is the right type. So what did he think about Malala and

her campaign for girls' education? TRANSLATION: She is a human being

and we would never support the terrible thing that happened to her.

It grieved us. What was she saying that was different? Whoever she is?

TRANSLATION: There was a reason, she talked about being open-minded

and liberal on the Internet. She said there is no need for the veil,

and she always spoke against Islam, that is why the west like her. She

crossed Islamic boundaries and that is wrong. Islam doesn't allow you

to cross those boundaries, we don't like her crossing them, we

appreciate her educational endeavours. The temporary building

that houses Madrassah, is packed full of students devoted to the

learning of Islam. So much so that on an average day up to 80% of the

students' time is spent learning about it and 20% on "other"

subjects. They observe the strictest form of Islam which means

male teachers aren't allowed in the room and teaching is done through

speakers and microphones. It is like the most unusual lesson in the

world, the teacher is not present in the room. That loud tannoy is

the teacher, and all these are the students, because it is so

important for men and women to be separate it is mandatory this

classroom hasn't got a teacher in it. It comes down to the Mullah's

wife to take charge of the day-to- day running of the female section

of the Madrassah. Umme Hasaan sets an example to her many followers

and pupils who reveer her. She was in the Red Mosque in 2007, she

fought alongside her husband. TRANSLATION: We asked Mushtaq's

Government to implement -- Musharraf's Government to implement

Sharia Law and then they attacked the Madrassah and they killed my

son, my brother-in-law, my mother and lots of students. This has only

made her more fefr vent in her beliefs and more determined to pass

on her passion for Islam. Islamic studies is number one, everything

else is number two. Everything else? Yes, science, English,

mathematics, computers. Basic studies is number two. First in

Islam. Look the Taliban have said girls should be educated but no co-

education. We met with them before the attack on the Madrassah. The

Government asked us to invite them over and talk to them about

education. You know their scarves, their His Majesty jab do they match

on purpose -- She believes that it is the burka that gives her and

other women the power to do what they have to do. TRANSLATION:

burka gives me safety, if I have meetings with the Government I wear

my burka and I feel very comfortable. I have seen they

respect it. When I go there they stand up for me. For women like you

they wouldn't stand up. When I sit down then they sit down. This burka

compels them to respect me. Me and you are very different. I asked her

if she thought of herself as extremist? TRANSLATION: Yes I am,

what is wrong with that. If you asked a doctor if he's a doctor why

would he be ashamed of that. He has to say, yes I am. You are happy to

call yourself extremist? TRANSLATION: Yes, I am and I'm

happy about it. Her views may be extreme, but they are not uncommon.

A recent survey of 5,000 young Pakistanis suggest over half

believe the current democratic system has not been good for the

people. What's more they prefer a Sharia system over democracy.

Malala and the girls have taken on the fight for better education for

millions of girls here, but whatever form it comes in getting

it is still a long way away. If you want to find out more about

Malala's story and girls' education in Pakistan look out for Nel's

documentary on BBC Three next month. A cultural milestone, it has been

loved, it has been admired, copied and a true sign of worldwide

significance, it has been parodyed. Now Indian cinema celebrates its

100th birthday. We have been looking at how it looks aged 100.

Hurray for bowl wood. This is a new release hitting the Indian

multiplexes in a few weeks time. Singing, dancing, young love. It is

not everyone's cup of tea. But a billion people can't be wrong.

love going to the cinema, it is part of the culture, cinema,

cricket, it is kind of a celebration to go to their

favourite actors' movies. They taken a entire family. It is an

expensive date. This was the first- ever Indian film. A black and white

silent movie, released 100 years ago tomorrow. We found out some

interesting detail about how long it was. 3,700 feet. Over the years

a recoginsable bowl wood style and sensibility evolved. The producers

put all the money up on the screen. Or else they gave an Indian flavour

to familiar genres, like the cowboy film. This was a kind of tanned

doory western. Not everything -- tandoori western, not everything

crosses over says our man in the stalls. It is all about

relationships and emotions. Something like Bond will probably

not work in India. Audiences in India would say "is he married",

"where does he live", "who is his mum"? With the Bollywood film we

have the traditional masala formula which is every single different

blend, we have songs, comedy, dances, action. It all ends happily

ever after. 15 million people watch films in India every day. And while

Hollywood produces a buttock- stiffening 500 films every year,

twice as many are made on the sub- continent. They took almost �2

billion at the box-office in 2011. That's expected to be more like �3

billion within three years. One veteran of almost 5000 movies, that

is six month's worth says cinema is one of India's great communal

experiences. What expects India sometimes is cinema. When you are

sitting in a cinema hall you are not rich, you are not poor, you are

not north Indian or south Indian, you are not a Muslim or a Hindu,

you are just part of an audience. That is why I always say the

hierarchy in India is good, doctors and actors! Some of those watching

in the dark find big bold Bollywood movies speak to them when the

culture outside is less friendly. Bollywood is probably the gayest

place I know, but no-one talks about it. It is very much still in

the Bolly-closet. The audiences may be secretly gay, but as the society

demands within India they must be married. Is this Bollywood? Well it

is Indian, but it is gritty, contemporary. Some say the industry

has a crisis of identity. I think Bollywood is confused in 2013. It

is aimless and does not really know where it is going. The traditional

formula has been redefined, but redefined into what? We have

shorter films, last week I saw a Bollywood horror film. But guess

what? They still insisted on including two unnecessary songs. I

love my song and dance, but not in a Bollywood horror film, rated 18.

The future could be fusion, a British-Asian director was

responsible for this reworking of Jane Austen. He is about to

transform into the Indian MC Hammer! With me now is the director

of that film, and the actress who starred in a number of British and

Indian films. I wondered if over the years, say since the 50s and

60s, the kinds of movies had changed or whether they remained

constant? Tremenduously. All movies I remember when I was in India as a

young girl, they always had a moral message for the society. They were

not just to entertain you. They were either telling you historical

fact or social reforms that should be brought in. And also we used to

have a lot of agriculture and landowners, so the biggest dispute

in those days after the independence wars was that the

landowners were treating their subjects very badly. We had films

on that and the message was that you should fight against them, form

a union. So we had films like Kuli, in which unions were formed to

fight against the magnet. Who are the bad guys now, what's changed in

that, are they less socially engaged is the way to put it?

guys are now smugglers, international smugglers. They are

bad guys here too? Traffickers, you know they abduct young girls and

sell them. We have lots of films like Bazaar. The reforms that have

come into the Indian society since independence, thanks to the

screening of films and documentaries and things like that.

They are also tackling child marriage, taking revenge so we have

famous stories. Did you here grow up on them, if so what did you

think of Bollywood then when you were a girl? I grew up in west

London in Southall, when I was growing up there were three cinemas

that showed Bollywood or Hindi movies, it was very much part of my

childhood and growing up. My father was very fond of Indian films, so

there were two classic films that he raved about, Mother India and

Beji Barbara. We grew up with those films. They are very much part of

my childhood. What is important, really important about Hindi cinema

in this country today, there are many British cinemas up and down

the country that are being kept alive because of Indian cinema. If

you go to a cinema like the Cineplex in Feltham, that is

working because of all the Indians going there. Bollywood films or

Hindi cinema today is very important to the community, because

it is a way of reaffirming your idea and connecting with who you

are, it is pleasurable. Does it cross over? Do you think it crosses

over to a British audience? I don't think it does and I don't think it

is intending to cross over. doesn't need to, it can do quite

well, thank you very much? I think the important thing is it is a way,

as it was said, it holds India together within India. But it is

also very important for the Indian disas pra, so people diaspora, so

people sitting in India will be the same as someone in Australia. The

whole system is very global. Does it cross over to directors, Bride

and Prejudice was a crossover film, that is tricky I suppose? It is

tricky. There are very few of us, but some people do venture into

that territory. My very first film that you were in, Baji on the Beach,

hi snippets of Bollywood films I was Reverends, at the time nobody

knew what I was -- referencing, nobody knew what I was doing, they

were film that is influenced me growing up. Those references were

there, that was because at the time I started making films it was very

much about exploring who you were as a British and Indian person and

exploring identity. Within I got the opportunity to make my first

feature film I wanted to explore my identity through being a British

film maker as well as having a legacy of Indian films. I think

there is interesting ways to use cinema. But I think the person in

your report there was wrong. I don't think Hindi cinema is

confused. In terms of bringing India together and how it impacts

on the wider culture, does it change street fashions, does it

change the way people talk and think? In India it has a great

influence. The girls are dressing like film stars and of course some

of the films are now copying the western culture and the western

themes. The miniskirt is there now, very short hair which we could

never dream of. That has come through Bollywood, but having been

taken from there? Visa versa, Bollywood has travelled here, they

have made a couple of film over here like Bollywood Queen with

James McAvoid, he was the hero in it. -- James McAvoy, he was the

hero in it. I'm sure he wants to forget that. We will see happy

birthday, tomorrow we have the reaction to the local election

Just like the last few days decent sunshine across central and eastern

England to start with today. Not as cold a start as mornings past, a

little more cloud further west and thicker cloud, rain and strong

winds to the north. Certainly by the middle of the afternoon that

rain will still be sitting across much of Northern Ireland, a

disappointing ten degrees into Belfast. There will be snow above

300ms to the higher ground to the tops of the mountains in Scotland.

It will be wet and windy as well. That rain slowly sinking south

across the borders by the middle of the afternoon. Cloud into northern

England and down into the Midland. We cling on to the sunshine through

the Midland East Anglia and the south-east corner. Highs of 17,

maybe a 19, 20 somewhere with the warmth. A little more cloud across

the south west, the cloud thickenens for a few showers,

coming inland hopeful low you will We keep the sunshine and warmth, a

little more cloud into the south- east for Saturday. Cloudy skies