16/07/2013 Newsnight


16/07/2013

Who is to blame for the 11 hospital trusts that failed? Plus, new laws to stop lobbying, north Vietnam finds capitalism and muttering thespians. With Emily Maitlis.


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11 hospital trusts are placed in special measure. Whose fault is

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that then? The front benchers blame each other. If the NHS is

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considered Labour's proudest achievement, today is their darkest

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moment. This report is about his Government and failings happening

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now. We will hear from the Health Secretary now. After the rows and

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expose says, making political lobbying transparent rather than

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plain packaged plans are expected on MPs' desk tomorrow. We are

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obsessed with lobbying. The man who invented modern lobbying takes on

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his citiblgs. Capitalism north vet niece style.

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Is this what it is to plan your business? No!How a communist

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dictatorship got itself a market economy. And...Is It terrible?The

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sex stays but the mumbling has to go. I don't know why, but no.How

:01:17.:01:27.
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the BBC Director General has declared war on this kind of thing.

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The lurid headlines of the weekend suggested 13,000 preventable NHS

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deaths, but the truth of the Keogh Report today suggested something

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far more anodyne but just as dismaying. Trapped by mediocrity

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said the report. It uncovers long standing problems at the trusts,

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mediocrity known about but never addressed. The Government and

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Labour were understandably furious, mostly at each other.

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Today was supposed to be about making our hospitals safe for

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patients. Instead as the Keogh Report was presented to MPs, it

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became a political blame game rapidly. The Health Secretary,

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Jeremy Hunt, said problems had begun under Labour. If founding the

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NHS is considered Labour's proudest achievement, today is their darkest

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moment. As a Labour Government is exposed as caring more about its

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own reputation than our most vulnerable citizens in the NHS.

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Shadow Health Secretary Andy Burnham hit back. Accusing the

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Health Secretary of playing politics with people's lives.

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report is about his Government and failings happening now on this

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Government's watch. He then referred to decades of neglect in

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the NHS in the 1980 and 1990s and the challenges of long waiting

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lists? The last Labour Government dealt with that issue, I'm proud of

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it and we are proud of our record on the NHS. It is depressing that

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issues that ought to be about quality and safety of patient care

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then descend into a political argument between Labour and the

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Government. We should be reaching to the higher ground asking the

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kinds of questions Sir Bruce has done in his report, understanding

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what causes failures of patient care. I hope politicians will move

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beyond today's discussion and to have that more plaiture discussion

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that the NHS -- mature discussion that the NHS itself is looking for.

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The review found 14 hospital trusts There is absence of a culture of

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openness, a lack of willingness to learn from mistakes and lack of

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ambition and ineffectual governance. 11 of the 14 hospital trusts were

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put on perb measures today. One criticised for out of hours care

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and poor track record on bed sores, and for shifting patients from

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ward-to-ward, sometimes multiple time, was the George Eliot Hospital

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Trust near Birmingham. It was making sure patients got to the

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right ward at the right time, we are increasing beds in the hospital

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and look to go see if we can put additional nurses and doctors into

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the hospital out of hours. So there are some really good and positive

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stuff we can take forward. Each trust met the Keogh team at a risk

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summit to discuss their future. The Dudley Group NHS Foundation Trust

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was not singled out for special measures, but its management team

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has been told to make improvements in talking to patients and other

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areas. We let patients down in terms of not getting good flow

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through the organisation so patients waiting for longer than

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they should have. In making some of our discharge processes not being

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as slick as they should be so patients are waiting for long

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periods to go at the end of their stay with us. Most of the trusts

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accepted the findings of today's report. Many were saying they were

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looking to increase nursing levels and would be talking more to

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patients. Should people feel more reassured about the NHS tonight?

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think they should be thinking that despite some of the findings that

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we made that we have a fantastic NHS, it is a big organisation,

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there are some areas which do less well an others, but in the

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hospitals we have visited and we have found serious cause for

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concern we have dealt with them quickly. The issues that these

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hospitals have to address now are about improvement, not immediate

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The 14 Hospital Trusts were put under scrutiny because they had

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higher than expected death rates over the last two years, but the

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review team is sceptical about such data. Statistic kal estimate of

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unexpected deaths can't be described as needlessly lost lives.

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Personally I don't set much store about the hospital mortality

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standardised ratio. The good news is we need to look at mortality,

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and there is a way of doing it, that is by case note review. We

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look in great depth at each and every death in a hospital. We get

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clinicians, physicians to do this who have been specially trained,

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using all the standardised techniques. From that we can

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determine what proportion of deaths are avoidable. Isn't that a very

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time-consuming process? It is a time-consuming process, but there

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is immediate benefits to the clinicians because they learn

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things about their own hospital and care. The author of today's report

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described this as a difficult day, but one he hoped would be a turning

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point for patient. It may well be a turning point for politics too, as

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the battle over who loves the NHS the most begins a new chapter.

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A little earlier I spoke to the Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt. This

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is a major report today into an issue of major concern for the

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entire country. Why would you choose to make such blatant

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political capital out of it? not. Actually as Health Secretary

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it is a very difficult day for me today, it is very difficult for any

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serving Health Secretary to come to the House of Commons and to say you

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are putting 11 hospitals into special measures that is nearly 10%

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of all acute trusts. The last thing you want to be responsible for is a

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service where there are failures. But the difference about today and

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it is a very big moment for the NHS. The difference is that because we

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are now being completely transparent about where there are

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problems, that means that people like me are now going to be held to

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account for turning round those failing hospitals. Why would you go

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to the Commons and accuse Andy Burnham of silencing

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whistleblowerers, and being to blame, and tweets from backbenchers

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all over the weekend pointing the finger at Burnham saying he should

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lose his job, where does that get you on this? The fact is one of the

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big changes we have had to make is overhaul the entire regulatory

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system that was set up by Labour. So you think he was to blame for

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this? Well the issue about not confronting failure, I absolutely

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do think that Labour are squarely to blame. David Cameron, your own

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leader, quoting the Francis Report said that they were not to blame,

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he did not want to see scapegoats and it was not the fault of the

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previous Secretary of State. Why is this different and why are you

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different to your leader? Well, what David Cameron was reflecting

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was what was in the Francis Report about the specific issues at Mid

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Staffs. What we are talking about here is a whole series of problems

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in hospitals that the NHS tried to solve behind closed doors and they

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weren't fixed. And the way that we are going to restore confidence and

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for me as Health Secretary, what I have to do now, is to deliver

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improved hospitals. Where these were failing hospitals I have to

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make sure they are now improved. How many more people died as a

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result of these failings in care do you think? It is very difficult to

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put an exact number on T it is hotly debated by academics.

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think it is thousands, that is what you said today, you said thousands

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more people may have died? I said they may have died. What happened

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with Mid Staffs was that excess mortality rates. What does that

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mean? You must let me answer the question. What does "may" have died,

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did they die as a result of these failings? I think people did die

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avoidably, yes. There is an argument between academics about

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precisely how many, but what we do know is that excess mortality rates

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are a lead indicator for problems in care. What Bruce Keogh looked at

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was the 14 hospitals can excess mortality rates, and in all 14 he

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found serious problems in care. Those sorts of figures people are

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saying are clinically meaningless and academically reckless.

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Academically reckless, you have said thousands may have died as a

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result? You are putting words into my mouth. You said that, you said

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thousands may have died as a result of this? You said may have died, we

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don't know how many. Let me say this, they may have died. Why isn't

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that academically reckless, why isn't it clinically meaningless?

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said to put a number on it. I didn't put a number on it. But he

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would agree with me that there may be thousands of people who died.

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But many people living in these areas particularly, and more widely

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afield, will be very concerned at what they found. When do you think

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they can rest easy that things rup to scratch, that things are

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medically safe. Let me make a general point about

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confidence in the NHS. Give me a time frame? All the hospitals will

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be inspected within the next 12 months by the new Chief Inspector

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of hospitals, who starts work today. This is a brand-new Ofsted-style

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regime. We will be able to see. You can invite me back and we will see

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the progress that has been made. How long do you think that will be?

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I would expect to see progress by the time of the first inspection

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they do. But. Which is?Within the next year. I don't want to give the

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time scale for every single problem to be pointed out. Within a year

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would that be too long if they were still in special measures in a

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year's time, pick a time frame? want to answer, it is very

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important, the point about confidence is you don't restore

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confidence for the people who use these hospitals and live near these

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hospitals by minimising the problem. You restore confidence by showing

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them that you are doing something to sort it out. We need a system

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whereby people like me can't get off the hook. It is so public, we

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have 1 hospitals in special measures. If we don't get the

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hospitals out of special measures soon. You will be the person coming

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to me and saying why haven't you succeeded in turning this around

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and I will be accountable for it. When? I want it as soon as possible,

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but some of these problems are deeply entrenched. Are you

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comfortable as Health Secretary that the PM spokesman has a company

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that lobbies on behalf of big tobacco? Are you talking about

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Lynton Crosby. Lynton Crosby's work is for the Conservative Party and

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...He Has a company that also lobbies on behalf of Big Toe bab

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co-? He hasn't lobbied me or the Prime Minister on issues to do with

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public health. There is also transparency. Does he never help

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the PM or advice on issues of policy and public health? No.So

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that is a whole area he's not allowed to touch? Yes. Are there

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any other issues he's not allowed to touch? I have given you a

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straight answer to the question you asked about public health, I don't

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know where you want to take it. Don't you think it is odd to have

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somebody who is your election co- ordinator that can't touch a whole

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area of issues? It is right that he shouldn't. His company has clients

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in that area. Would you like to bring in this plain packaging for

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cigarettes now? I want to wait and see what the evidence says, but I'm

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very sympathetic to measures that stop young people taking up smoking,

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it is our number one killer. not be brave and just do it.

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Ireland has set the pace, why not do it? These are very hot low-

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fought legal issues and we need it make sure if we are doing it that -

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- hotly fought legal issues and we need to make sure we have the ducks

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in the row. Why not be a world leader? We have to have the

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evidence there. When you have a country like Australia that

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introduced it in January, it won't be too long before we know the

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impact in terms of the amount of young people it has stopped taking

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up smoking. And when you have that evidence that's the time, it is a

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big decision, but that's the time to make your decision. Jeremy Hunt

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thank you. So there you go, clarification from the Health

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Secretary that Lynton Crosby, the Conservative election co-ordinator

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never advises on issues of policy in public health, it is a whole

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area that he's not allowed to touch. Well tomorrow that question of, if

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you like, undue influence in lobbying comes to a head, or may do.

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Proposed reforms to the lobbying industry will attempt to do what

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Leveson tried to do with the press and Ipsa is trying to do for MPs'

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expenses. Will it be more successful, or does influence flow

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where money is happy to pay. In a moment we will hear from James

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Woolsey and Tim Bell. Central Lobby can be an

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intimidating place, with queens, prime ministers and saints. Yet it

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is meant to be for the common man, a place to drop in and lobby your

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MP. Lobbying doesn't have to be a dirty word. But it is. It is the

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next big scandal waiting to happen. David Cameron almost got it right,

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first came phone hacking then lobbying. The latest furore over

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why the Government decided not to introduce plain packaging for

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cigarettes and whether that might have something to do with the fact

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that their Aussie election strategist, Lynton Crosby's

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lobbying firm is employed by the tobacco industry. Labour certainly

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sees a connection. Now we know that Lynton Crosby's company had a

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contract with Big Tobacco. And at the same time Lynton Crosby was

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advising the Prime Minister on what should be in his Queen's Speech and

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we know that the Prime Minister dropped his bill on tobacco

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packaging, I think that is a clear conflict of interest. David Cameron

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has to come clean and explain why once again he's standing up for the

:16:15.:16:22.

wrong people. It was this footage of Conservative MP, Patrick Mercier,

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apparently offering Fiji to reenter the Commonwealth in exchange for

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�4,000 that brought "cash for questions" back into the headlines.

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I don't charge a great deal of money for these things.

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The story came as no surprise to many in Westminster. The Central

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Lobby of the House of Commons and this place is infested with

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lobbyists, and their tentacles stretch in every corner of the

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building, every area of life in the House of Commons is full of

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lobbyists. And they are there lurking, ready to persuade, ready

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to corrupt politicians to do their bidding. And what they will do is

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to bribe and bully and bamboozle politicians in the interests of

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their rich paymasters. Tomorrow the Government is expected to try to

:17:14.:17:18.

tighten the rules on lobbying by proposing a register of

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professional lobbyists. For faith to be restored in this place people

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need to believe that politicians are making decisions based on what

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they think is right for the country, rather than on-lineing their own

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pockets. A register of professional - on lining their own pockets. A

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register of professional interests sounds like a good idea. The only

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problem is only a fraction of people paid to meet MPs around

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policy will end up signing up to it. What is the problem with the

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register, is it that you don't want to be on it? I absolutely want to

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be on a register, bring it on. The problem is I think it will just

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include consultancies. We looked at Biz department figures, last year

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988 departmental meetings were had with ministers, special advisers,

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and a permanent secretary. Just two of those 988 meetings were with

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people like me, the rest were with trade groups and in-house lobbyists

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and lawyers. The Government's bill is expected to set up a register of

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professional lobbyists. It is also likely to try to limit the amount

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third-party organisations can spend on campaigning for political

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parties. That will affect trade unions. But Labour's got other

:18:37.:18:43.

ideas and has tabled amendments. It wants all paid lobbyists to end up

:18:43.:18:47.

on the register, and it wants any lobbyist doing a senior job for

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Government to be declared. Perhaps unsurprisingly people think that is

:18:51.:18:55.

aimed at exposing the business affairs of Lynton Crosby. Forget

:18:55.:19:01.

any idea that the political parties will reach consensus on this. Some

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fear what will get lost is campaigning to make things better.

:19:07.:19:11.

Lobby is not all bad. We exist to lob hey, I'm an MP and not an

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expert in all fields, I rely on talking to others, NGOs, charities,

:19:17.:19:21.

local businesses talking to me. You have to be open to lobbying. The

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issue is it has to be transparent and no money should change hands.

:19:24.:19:30.

If you dole with those two aspects lobbying doesn't have to be

:19:30.:19:35.

negative. The Government's proposals is meant to decontaminate

:19:35.:19:39.

lobbying, as long as they are points scoring against each other,

:19:39.:19:42.

it is hard to see that happening soon.

:19:42.:19:50.

Lord Bellamy bell is a Conservative peer and P -- Lord Tim Bell is a

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Conservative peer, and runs one of the most successful lobbying

:19:54.:19:58.

outfits. And Dr James Woolsey repeatedly has spoken out against

:19:58.:20:01.

lobbying. Welcome both. I want to go back to the question of Lynton

:20:01.:20:05.

Crosby, would that be usual to have whole policy areas completely off

:20:05.:20:10.

limit like that? In my experience of advising political parties on

:20:10.:20:14.

election campaigns is it is not about policy but how you get votes

:20:14.:20:19.

and who you tafrgt your messages to, and how you deliver those drg

:20:19.:20:25.

target your messages and now you different -- how you target your

:20:25.:20:28.

messages and how you get them out. I worked for Margaret Thatcher for

:20:28.:20:32.

15 years if I told her what policies to decide on she would

:20:32.:20:36.

have thrown me out of the room. Jeremy Hunt was certain that those

:20:36.:20:40.

lines should not be crossed? Jeremy Hunt speaks for himself, I don't

:20:40.:20:44.

speak for him. I do know Lynton Crosby extremely well, I can

:20:44.:20:48.

guarantee you that he did not persuade the Prime Minister to

:20:48.:20:53.

change his position on plain packages. Are you convinced own

:20:53.:20:56.

that? If you come in and say you want to scrape the barnacles off

:20:56.:21:01.

the boat and one of those barnacles is entire public health policy you

:21:01.:21:05.

don't need to have a conversation about smoking and tobacco because

:21:05.:21:09.

it is disappeared. In the report we were hearing about...What Do you

:21:09.:21:13.

mean the importance of disappeared? I think it has been removed. Two

:21:13.:21:17.

very key public health measures are being removed. Just to reflect back

:21:17.:21:21.

on today's events, NHS doctors and nurses all the time are being told

:21:21.:21:25.

about the importance of reducing avoidable mortality. We have the

:21:25.:21:28.

really big win in avoidable mortalties in public health, and

:21:28.:21:33.

yet the two areas which could have made a real difference and the real

:21:33.:21:37.

tools that could have been used to reduce smoking and reduce alcohol

:21:37.:21:41.

abuse, they have been removed by the politicians for short-term

:21:41.:21:47.

political expediency, in my view. By lobbyists? You could argue this

:21:47.:21:51.

is one of the most spectacular examples of hidden lobbying. We

:21:51.:21:58.

don't know. I think the point is that actually if you are also being

:21:58.:22:02.

paid by major tobacco companies and internationally, but the point is

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we don't know, by big alcohol, then of course, to make a statement that

:22:08.:22:12.

can't influence the kind of advice you are giving is wrong. The public

:22:12.:22:17.

have a right to know. It doesn't smell right? I don't care what it

:22:17.:22:20.

smells like? You don't care what it smells like, extraordinary.

:22:20.:22:27.

type around Big Tobacco and Big Alcohol, the same as small alcohol

:22:27.:22:31.

and small tobacco. As it happens I'm a smoker and happy smoking, all

:22:31.:22:35.

the stuff that Sarah talks about and the health Tsars and fascists

:22:35.:22:40.

have gone on and on about smoking hasn't affected me. I did the very

:22:40.:22:44.

first anti-smoking campaigns in this country when The Royal College

:22:44.:22:48.

of Physician report came across with the linking of smoking with

:22:48.:22:52.

cancer, and emphysema. We did all the anti-smoking advertising, later

:22:52.:22:58.

on we took on a cigarette brand called Silk Cut, I don't take issue

:22:58.:23:02.

with that I believe it should be free. I'm a real Conservative

:23:02.:23:05.

Conservative I believe in the continued...If It doesn't work then

:23:05.:23:11.

fine? The point is if it didn't work why would people pay vast sums

:23:11.:23:14.

for it. It should include people giving high-level political advice

:23:14.:23:18.

at the heart of Government. I think that's something that the public

:23:18.:23:22.

would welcome. What position are you in at the moment, do you feel

:23:22.:23:25.

comfortable with Lynton Crosby and the position he's in for your Prime

:23:25.:23:28.

Minister? I would like to know who else is paying him. The public have

:23:28.:23:33.

a right to know that as well. To see public health completely

:23:33.:23:37.

removed from the political agenda at the same time as somebody is

:23:38.:23:41.

advising about what policy should be in the lead up to the election.

:23:41.:23:47.

I'm afraid it isn't the case to say these things are unconnect. What

:23:47.:23:52.

reforms do we need tomorrow? don't need any reforms. None at all,

:23:52.:23:56.

you are happy with the position of Government? I have never known a

:23:56.:24:01.

lobbyist that gave a politician money or gifts or took them on to

:24:01.:24:05.

events to persuade them to change policies. If you want to define a

:24:05.:24:07.

lobbyist, which the Government define as wishing to influence

:24:07.:24:10.

public policy then every MP is a lobbyist, every journalist,

:24:10.:24:15.

everybody who talks about politics is a lobbyist, every constituent

:24:15.:24:20.

that comes to your surgery is a lobbyist. For God's sake this is

:24:20.:24:23.

smearing a small group of people. You have no evidence for it

:24:23.:24:29.

whatsoever apart from a few fraudulent activities. You don't

:24:29.:24:35.

have the faintest idea what lobbyist gets paid. What does it

:24:35.:24:41.

matter if they get big money or not? The public want transparency

:24:41.:24:44.

about that. The public has never asked me for transparency. Jo it

:24:44.:24:48.

should also be around things like think-tanks, for example, anybody

:24:48.:24:52.

who lobbies for money. It couldn't do that. So everyone should sign up

:24:52.:24:57.

to this register? I I think they would want to. You heard the guy in

:24:57.:25:01.

the film there are only two people on it because they are transparent

:25:01.:25:05.

about what they do? The APCC has every single one of the companies

:25:05.:25:08.

to be named tomorrow, as I understand it, which is what you

:25:09.:25:11.

call the professional lobbying companies, they are already members

:25:11.:25:15.

of it. They already publish their client lists and how much they are

:25:15.:25:18.

paid. It is published on a publicly available website. It is already

:25:18.:25:23.

there. The head of the PRCA, the head of APPC have all said to the

:25:23.:25:26.

Government you don't need to do this, but they completely ignore

:25:26.:25:31.

you and what they are doing is smearing a lot of people who make a

:25:31.:25:33.

considerable contribution to this life. All of us do things that make

:25:33.:25:37.

a difference. They make a difference to people's lives. I

:25:37.:25:40.

happen to to be a real Conservative, I believe people should be paid for

:25:40.:25:44.

what they do. I don't believe there is anything wrong with being paid,

:25:44.:25:48.

nor do I think everybody is corrupt. Do you find if big money changes

:25:49.:25:52.

policy? That is where we are going to. Does it matter if that happens?

:25:52.:25:56.

Not if the policy out of it is good. If somebody has a lot of money they

:25:56.:26:01.

should be able to influence policy? That is not how it work, if you

:26:01.:26:08.

look at what lobbyists get paid. The financial takeover company

:26:08.:26:12.

decided to make financial companies pay fees in order to discover if

:26:12.:26:17.

they were being overpaid for doing takeover bids. Lo and behold it

:26:17.:26:20.

turned out they weren't paid millions but tens of thousands of

:26:20.:26:23.

pounds. Are the public sophisticated enough to see through

:26:23.:26:27.

the people that are trying too hard, if you like. Do we really need

:26:27.:26:30.

regulation to sort this out? point is the public have an

:26:30.:26:33.

absolute right to know who is behind, what is the big money

:26:33.:26:36.

behind organisations that are advising at the heart of Government.

:26:36.:26:41.

Isn't the worry that you paint the political classes as grubby,

:26:41.:26:46.

corrupt, when we have one of the cleanest systems in the world?

:26:46.:26:49.

do because people challenge, we should continue to challenge. It is

:26:49.:26:55.

not unreasonable in my opinion. introduce absurd regulations that

:26:55.:26:59.

have made no difference anywhere else. We are going to have to leave

:26:59.:27:04.

that here. How do you get capitalism to work

:27:04.:27:10.

in a communist state. Now 25 years ago the entire economy of Vietnam

:27:10.:27:13.

was Government-controlled. The debate continues here. Today just a

:27:13.:27:18.

third of it is, the country still calls itself commune is, but this

:27:18.:27:22.

process of liberalisation is reckoned to be key to Vietnam's

:27:22.:27:28.

rapid growth. We have gone in search of Vietnamese milk, bun of

:27:28.:27:32.

the burgeoning industries flourishing in a country not used

:27:32.:27:42.
:27:42.:27:45.

to' free market. They still preserve a few remnants of war. But

:27:45.:27:50.

Ho Chi Minh, the city normally known as Saigon, is almost

:27:50.:27:54.

unrecoginsable as the place the Americans withdrew troops from 40

:27:54.:28:02.

years ago. Vietnam's commercial centre sports all the Gaudi

:28:02.:28:06.

accessories you would expect from a booming economy. The high class

:28:06.:28:10.

hotels and cafe lifestyles. Just like this city, the communists who

:28:10.:28:15.

won the American war, as the Vietnam War is known here, have had

:28:15.:28:21.

a makover. One bonders what the communist hero,

:28:21.:28:24.

Ho Chi Minh would make of the fact that the Stock Exchange is named

:28:24.:28:28.

after him. This place is still run by the Communist Party, but

:28:28.:28:32.

apparently Vietnam is now a socialist-orientated market economy.

:28:32.:28:36.

What that really seems to mean is capitalist powerhouse. Over the

:28:36.:28:41.

last 15 years the Communist Party has overseen a spectacular economic

:28:41.:28:48.

boom. But now growth is lagging, in large

:28:48.:28:51.

part because the boom has been based not on wealth, but on the

:28:51.:29:01.
:29:01.:29:01.

country's poverty. Look at the scale of this place? There must be

:29:01.:29:11.

hundreds of people working here. It is like those dark Satanic mills,

:29:11.:29:16.

and these guys make garments and clothes for all the big western

:29:16.:29:21.

countries. It really is amazing. Vast workshops like this making

:29:21.:29:27.

clothes and other manufactured goods for the west are the engine

:29:27.:29:30.

driving Vietnam's boom, they flourished because they are so

:29:30.:29:34.

cheap. And they are cheap because the workers get paid so little.

:29:34.:29:44.
:29:44.:29:44.

This is definitely not for the local market. Hi is pretty typical

:29:44.:29:47.

of Vietnam's new urban work force, he has migrated from the

:29:47.:29:50.

countryside and works long hours for what is, by international

:29:50.:29:58.

standards, very low pay. So how hard is it working here? Not hard

:29:58.:30:08.
:30:08.:30:20.

He heads home as soon as his long day shift is over. This is your

:30:20.:30:30.
:30:30.:30:33.

place? But almost immediately's back in front of a sewing machine.

:30:33.:30:43.
:30:43.:31:05.

What time do you think you will It is a long day for you Hi. The

:31:05.:31:09.

Vietnamese Government recognises that piece work is never going to

:31:09.:31:12.

make people like Hi or Vietnam rich. So it has been encouraging the

:31:12.:31:15.

development of new industries, which generate higher profits and

:31:15.:31:22.

can pay workers more. Dairy products have never been a big part

:31:22.:31:32.
:31:32.:31:38.

of the Vietnamese diet. Vinamilk is hoping to change that. It has grown

:31:38.:31:43.

rapidly to become one of the biggest companies listed on the Ho

:31:43.:31:47.

Chi Minh Stock Exchange, valued at over $5 million. The architect of

:31:47.:31:52.

Vinamilk as success is its formidable former communist boss,

:31:52.:31:57.

Madame Lien. Do you like cows? So what are your plans for the

:31:57.:32:07.
:32:07.:32:33.

A multinational, an ambitious woman, very ambitious? Yes.Vinamilk is a

:32:33.:32:38.

poster child for the success of the communist Government's

:32:38.:32:41.

privatisation programme. Just over 25 years ago the entire economy was

:32:41.:32:48.

controlled by the state. Now it is just a third. So this factory is

:32:48.:32:53.

all powered milk products? children. That process of

:32:53.:33:00.

liberalisation is reckoned to be the key to Vietnam's rapid growth.

:33:00.:33:04.

Madame Lien says she sees no contradiction between the country's

:33:04.:33:14.
:33:14.:33:14.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 43 seconds

:33:14.:33:57.

growing private sector and its Which sounds rather like capitalism.

:33:57.:34:01.

And the problem with capitalism is that capitalists tend to do what's

:34:01.:34:10.

best for the bottom line. Not what is best for workers. Despite the

:34:10.:34:16.

boss's -- bosses' minimalist sympathies, just a few people can

:34:16.:34:19.

run this vast milk powder factory and the dairy in the Highlands has

:34:19.:34:26.

the latest labour-saving equipment. The state still keeps a very tight

:34:26.:34:30.

grip on other aspects of society, here is the minder who accompanied

:34:30.:34:36.

the Newsnight team wherever we went. Can innovations and enterprise

:34:36.:34:44.

thrive while the state keeps such a close watch. Many investors seem to

:34:44.:34:48.

think so, this is a software engineer who works for a country

:34:48.:34:52.

that looks to borrow ideas from leading companies in the best like

:34:52.:34:57.

Google and Ebay, and tailor them for the Vietnamese market. Once

:34:57.:35:06.

again this is not labour-intensive work. Do you think this is a bit

:35:06.:35:10.

like business? Man, you are a tough competitor. Is this what you feel

:35:10.:35:20.

like when you are planning your business? No!He lives the kind of

:35:20.:35:23.

modern urban lifestyle that many young Vietnamese aspire to, he's

:35:23.:35:28.

optimistic about the future. Actually I'm lucky now because I

:35:28.:35:37.

was born in the peaceful town -- peaceful time, not only me but many

:35:37.:35:42.

students have the space to study and work, not only in our country

:35:42.:35:49.

but in developed countries like the US and Europe. Not everyone shares

:35:49.:35:55.

his optimisim. Hoong is one of Vietnam's army of new graduates,

:35:55.:35:59.

Vietnam's universities have almost two million students, a seven-fold

:35:59.:36:03.

increase in just 15 years. It is another arm of the Government's

:36:03.:36:08.

strategy to upgrade the economy. You are selling these mobile

:36:08.:36:13.

phones? Yes.You are not working in what you want to do? Yeah. I really

:36:13.:36:22.

want to have a job in suitable with my degree. But I can't find a job

:36:22.:36:32.
:36:32.:36:32.

like that. But Hoong's experience is typical. She graduated two years

:36:32.:36:35.

ago with a degree in hotel management. But she can't find work

:36:35.:36:42.

in the hotel industry. Are there many of your friend from university

:36:42.:36:52.
:36:52.:37:16.

What do your parents think of the situation. It must be quite

:37:16.:37:26.
:37:26.:37:39.

difficult for them? The problem is that in vet nam it is not -- is

:37:39.:37:43.

that if Vietnam is not using its brightest and best it will find

:37:43.:37:47.

itself in the middle income trap. Rising wages will price it out of

:37:47.:37:50.

bottom end manufacturing, yet it doesn't seem ready to break into

:37:50.:37:58.

the more lucrative higher value markets quite yet.

:37:58.:38:03.

I think that the BBC chief Tony Hall remarked today "muttering is

:38:03.:38:07.

something we could look at". If you are in any way hard of hearing

:38:07.:38:12.

muttering is something you you have to look at. The announcement was

:38:12.:38:19.

greeted with more whoops of joy than a reduction in the license fee.

:38:19.:38:29.

Has the quiet man had his time? Or have we a mix of kitchen sink

:38:29.:38:35.

realisim. (quietly) it is very beautiful here. Yet all around such

:38:35.:38:45.
:38:45.:38:45.

decay. The children are starving. Did you think this was just a

:38:45.:38:53.

fairness dispute, a little bit of nothing. A wife did she hang?No

:38:53.:39:00.

Jeggers was for her. Perhaps he should. He must want more.

:39:00.:39:08.

(quietly) then what? Then, picnics. So now that he's started. It is

:39:08.:39:16.

hard to stop even if he wanted to. He thinks they are weak and all day

:39:16.:39:26.
:39:26.:39:29.

he is making table legs and side boards. (inaudible) with my dresses.

:39:29.:39:33.

You turn it down to the bank tomorrow, we don't want any

:39:33.:39:37.

criminals thieving off you. Nothing like making a point with a

:39:37.:39:41.

bit of choice editing, but to discuss the mumable is Michael

:39:41.:39:46.

Simkins a RADA-trained actor who has performed on the stage and TV

:39:46.:39:50.

dramas and big screen and the Sunday Mirror's TV critic is with

:39:51.:39:59.

us. Is it about not wanting to be ham, is that the biggest worry?

:39:59.:40:02.

can blame the bloke behind me, Marlon brand dough, before him

:40:02.:40:07.

whether it was actors who were positively sup pine like Gary

:40:07.:40:12.

Cooper, who people who delivered it stucatto like Edward Robinson, you

:40:12.:40:16.

could always hear what they said. Brand dough broke the mould and

:40:17.:40:22.

started the trend for a more realistic style. That has been

:40:22.:40:28.

exemplfied by the cultural change, everything is spartan and dialogue

:40:28.:40:31.

understated. That is how a lot of people communicate. Like the

:40:31.:40:35.

younger generation today. We are not goinging to lose that are we?

:40:35.:40:38.

don't recognise this as a prevalent problem. Tony Hall was honest

:40:38.:40:42.

enough to admit he's 62 and was perhaps talking to his own

:40:42.:40:51.

generation. I think a lot of the complaints are actually, we saw

:40:51.:40:56.

Eddy Redmain there, and an absurd example. You have soundtrack,

:40:56.:41:00.

actors speaking perfectly normally against the backdrop of pounding

:41:00.:41:03.

rock music because that is groovy and MoD he were, and people of a

:41:03.:41:09.

certain age can't hear what is being said. It is this kind of urge

:41:09.:41:11.

towards modernism that possibly gets in the way of clarity. When

:41:11.:41:17.

you are training and you are a RADA man, is the emphasis on projection

:41:17.:41:24.

and on the kind of acting that speaks to a 1,000-seat theatre?

:41:25.:41:29.

emphasis is less now. When I was training back in the primevil days

:41:29.:41:35.

back in the 1970s, actors cut their teeth in great big theetures where

:41:35.:41:42.

you were playing to 800 seats. When Donald Syndon opened his mouth on

:41:42.:41:47.

the first night he blew me into the orchestra pit, I couldn't believe

:41:47.:41:53.

anyone could deliver 70-80 yards without raising his voice. That has

:41:53.:41:57.

changed. Following on from your point the poor old beleaguered

:41:57.:42:03.

actor, however well they do it on set it is overlaid often with

:42:03.:42:07.

soundtracks and ambient noises which gives it a nice theme.

:42:07.:42:13.

are not told to mumable? No actor it is told to mumable. If you are

:42:13.:42:19.

trying to do the love scene with the royal Philharmonic orchestra

:42:19.:42:29.
:42:29.:42:32.

behind you, I defy Brian Blessed to do that. The actors are being

:42:32.:42:36.

unfairly accused, they might deliver the line well and they turn

:42:36.:42:40.

the music down to make it moody. What about the rest of the

:42:40.:42:45.

technology, flat-screen TVs, this is mooted as one reason why you

:42:45.:42:48.

can't hear anything, there is no sound bar? I hadn't thought of that,

:42:48.:42:53.

but I think Michael and I agree we don't see this as a prevalent

:42:53.:42:58.

problem. It may be, as Tony said I'm sorry if I sound like a grumpy

:42:58.:43:02.

old man, it may be a grumpy old man complaining about something he

:43:02.:43:06.

personally find irritating. Programmes like The Wire are cool

:43:06.:43:11.

because you can't quite understand them? There is a lot of copying of

:43:11.:43:15.

the Wire, that could have done with subtitles. I thought you could get

:43:15.:43:22.

it? Hi to get subtitles watching it. Follow on from that technology has

:43:22.:43:25.

moved on hugely, when you are filming, the boom operator, the

:43:25.:43:31.

sound man, they can pick up the tick of your wristwatch but also

:43:31.:43:37.

your gurgling digestive system doing last night's curry. The actor

:43:37.:43:41.

sometimes inadvertantly hands over the mechanics of his performance to

:43:41.:43:45.

technology. You are often in the thrall of people who are expert,

:43:45.:43:50.

however much they may be, it is not you judging the performance I in

:43:50.:43:56.

more. That must make you feel impotent? As an actor. A lot of

:43:56.:44:03.

things make me pole impotent! It does mean there is so much

:44:03.:44:05.

technology around the actor can forget they are the person

:44:06.:44:08.

delivering the part. Thank you very much indeed. We hope you heard

:44:08.:44:13.

every word of that, we will take you through a mumbled paper review

:44:13.:44:23.
:44:23.:44:23.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 43 seconds

:44:23.:45:06.

now. The Times has a picture of a That's all from us tonight, it is

:45:06.:45:10.

not just the mumbling that is going, it is also the pesky squished up

:45:10.:45:20.
:45:20.:45:29.

credits at the BBC programme, you (continuity announcement mumble

:45:29.:45:39.
:45:39.:45:43.

about the next programme). Good evening, more sunshine and more

:45:43.:45:47.

heat, just about sums up the forecast for the British Isles in

:45:47.:45:51.

the next few days. Today we still have some cloud across Northern

:45:51.:45:55.

Ireland and Scotland, a bit more cloud for northern England than

:45:55.:45:58.

early on in the week. For Northern Ireland with sunny spells through

:45:58.:46:01.

the afternoon, a few spot temperatures will get close to the

:46:01.:46:06.

mid-20s, the same can be said for southern and eastern Scotland. The

:46:06.:46:11.

North West plaged with the remnants of a weather front. Shetland should

:46:11.:46:15.

brighten through the afternoon. Northern England should have long

:46:15.:46:19.

spells of sunshine in the mid-20s, across the south-east of England we

:46:19.:46:24.

may get close to 30 degrees. With that kind of heat we may spark off

:46:24.:46:28.

a very isolated thunderstorm. If we see any showers developing they

:46:28.:46:31.

could be lively, but they will be few and far between. Further west

:46:31.:46:37.

more sunshine, of course, and again widely in the 20s. Very little

:46:37.:46:42.

changes in that story as we look at the later part of the week. Just

:46:42.:46:47.

ever so slightly subtle changes, temperatures coming down on

:46:47.:46:51.

Thursday and Friday picking up a more Eastleigh fetch to our weather.

:46:51.:46:55.

Who is to blame for the 11 hospital trusts that failed? Plus, new laws to stop lobbying, north Vietnam finds capitalism and muttering thespians. With Emily Maitlis.


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