09/09/2013 Newsnight

Is it possible that Russia has offered Syria and the United States

a way out of confrontation. The idea is that the country's chemical

weapons be put under international control. No-one has yet ruled it

out entirely, even as the White House tries to gather political

support for an attack. Congress is certainly interested in

the new plan, but will it get them off the hook of having to vote for

strikes? What he thought was a little lie

led to a bigger lie and then a bigger one still, and finally they

sent him to prison. We talk to Chris Huhne about whether he really

of the victim of a conspiracy by Brodie Murdoch. -- Rupert Murdoch.

We asked the last chairman of the BBC Governor, Michael Grade when

the rot set in among the managers. Then this: Hello it is Alex here

from the Artic Monkeys. Steven Smith and I will be discussing our

hot new long player this evening on Newsnight, do tune in. The door

seemed to open a chink today when the Syrian Foreign Minister

appeared to welcome a Russian suggestion that they put their

chemical weapons under international control. If that were

to happen they would be going part of the way to meeting the request

that the UN Secretary-General made. In the meantime the American

President continues his attempts to persuade Congress to endorse his

plans for some sort of strike on Syria. Mark Urban is in Washington

for us. Act now, stop Assad now.

This will be a week of ferment and argument here as the debate over

striking Syria moves to a vote on argument here as the debate over

Capitol Hill. There were rival demonstrations

today by Syrian ex -pats, and an intervention by President Bashar

Al-Assad himself. Addressing Congress in its own language,

knowing its reluctance to back bombing. If you strike somewhere

you have to expect reprecussion cushions somewhere else in

different forms -- reprecussions somewhere else in different forms.

You saying there will be strikes against the United States from your

You saying there will be strikes friends by Iran and Hezbollah? As I

You saying there will be strikes said it may take different forms.

But not for the first time in this crisis some thinking aloud by the

US Secretary of State grabbed people's attention. He could turn

over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the

international community next week, turn it over, all of it. Without

delay. To allow a full and total accounting for that, but he isn't

about do it, and it can't be done. But this time the consequence of

some off the cuff speaking proved But this time the consequence of

more remarkable. For the Russian Foreign Minister saw in it a chance

to create a diplomatic opening. TRANSLATION: We don't know if Syria

will agree to this, but if the establishment ment give

international control of chemical weapons in that country would avoid

strikes we will work with Damascus weapons in that country would avoid

and appeal to the Syrian Government, not only to agree to place the

sites where chemical weapons are stored under international control,

but also to be them to be subsequently destroyed. And the

international quad Rhyl took a further step when Syria's Foreign

Minister said his country agreed to such plan. Is it viable? The policy

Minister said his country agreed to gurus in Washington are hardly

breaking out the champagne. The issue is whether, given the current

environment, it is practical to assume that any proposal like this

can actually be implemented, or whether what you will get is some

chemical stock being turned over, others being unaccounted for,

others being "mysteriously" disappeared.

Today's developments on chemical weapons are reverberating on

Capitol Hill, where Assenate vote was expected as soon as Wednesday.

Where many now may be questioning, what exactly should they be voting

on? Our diplomatic editor joins us now from Capitol Hill. So Mark,

what do you reckon to the chances of thisenishive resolving the --

this initiative resolving the crisis? President Obama is going to

come here tomorrow in an attempt to lobby senators, as it stands about

a third of the the Senate is undecided. Some suggests the

numbers were getting worse for him even before today's initiative, and

this is certainly not going to make his job any easier. They have been

reacting already to what they have heard today from Sergey Lavrov and

the others, for example, Senor Diane Finstein of California, who

last week came out of the White House endorsing the President's

plan, today says no, no, this is worthy of is serious study. Hillary

Clinton too has responded in what one might call a not unhelpful way,

suggesting there might be something in it. So the immediate effect of

this is to complicate the plan. But the Senate leadership still

anticipates moving a vote on the original resolution, the strikes

res lug, if you like, -- resolution, if you like, even if others have

ideas about putting this new plan to the rest in the Senate are also

ideas about putting this new plan floating around.

What is the calculation there, if Congress were to vote against

strikes, would it then be possible or impossible for the President to

launch them? You know, a lot of people have looked at this scenario

where he does manage to persuade the Senate, but not the House of

Representatives, which is is much more sceptical, based on the

currentalies. The White House has intimated it would still go ahead,

I'm not sure how credible that is. I think in terms of the reception

of this chemical weapons plan, that was mooted today, it is quite

interesting to look at the way the White House has handled this, they

have been sceptical, but they have not been dismissive. So they are

planning a twin-track approach in which they continue to move towards

the strikes resolutions in the Senate and House saying that it is

only pressure that has got us to this point. They are also saying

that they will explore this idea. I think there are two important

realities that cause them not to be dismissive. The first is, as we

well know, the President has never wanted to intervene in Syria

militarily, and if this could get him off the hook, I think it could

be extremely useful. If it could in any way be made practicable and

workable. The second is, I think the foreign policy establishment

here, the intelligence establishment, while they are

suspicious of trickery as they would see it on the part of is iria

and Russia, they do acknowledge that countries like Russia and even

Iran have deep-seated concerns about what would happen to Syria's

chemical weapons if the Government fall, for example if militant

Jihadists obtained them, for that reason these proposals may well be

in ernest. Coming up the Artic Monkeys.

Rupert Murdoch, the man who claimed to have had the humblist day of his

life when he appeared before parliament was responsible for

ending the political career of one of the stars of the current

Government, that, at least, of the game the Guardian made for Chris

Huhne who went to jail for perverting the course of justice

earlier this year. As a good time girl in an earlier scandal put it,

"he would, wouldn't he"? Huhne's party leader and Deputy Prime

Minister seemed to take much the same view when asked if he thought

the same? I will be talking to Chris Huhne in a moment or two.

First a recap on this sorry tale. It all started after their marriage

broke down. Vicky Pryce, being told of her husband's affair with his

aide plotted revenge. She decided to tell the Sunday Times journalist,

Isabelle Oakshott of an occasion when she took speeding points for

her husband. He was later charged with perverting the course of

justice, an accusation he denied. These allegations are certainly

incorrect. They have been made before and they have shown to be

untrue. And I very much welcome the referral to the police as it will

draw a lion under the matter. But after the trial began he made a

spectacular U-turn. I have pleaded guilty today. I am unable to say

spectacular U-turn. I have pleaded more while there is an outstanding

trial. But having taken responsibility for something which

happened ten years ago the only proper course of action for me is

now to resign my Eastleigh seat in parliament, which I will do very

shortly. It sealed the fate of his political career, and his freedom

for a time, he served two months of an eight-month sentence. Today he

published a series of accusations in the Guardian Newspaper, saying

that: He cited his personal hostility to

Rupert Murdoch as a motive for rough treatment. He said that the

Sunday Times had groomed his ex- wife until she told them about the

speeding points, and that the Crown Prosecution Service loves a

celebrity trial. Chris Huhne is here now, what causes someone to

lie as you did? Well the most important thing is to say that

report did slightly skate over what was in the article when I said very

clearly that none of what transpired would have happened if I

hadn't made a mistake and if I, I have always taken responsibility

for that. And indeed the night of my sentencing I said that I was

sorry for that. That's not what I'm my sentencing I said that I was

asking, what causes to you lie like that? The key thing is back when it

happened, I in 2003 I like others thought it was a minor matter,

because the AA found 300,000 people had done it. You kept on lying?I

didn't, I wasn't accused of anything until 2011. Then you lied

didn't you? In 2011 what happened was that I was first accused of

swapping points with a member of my constituency staff, which was

untrue. Then I did lie about it, and the lying was essentially that

the consequences of what seemed to be a relatively minor matter a long

the consequences of what seemed to time ago was so disproportionate,

and I knew it was so disproportionate, that you say this

is something that you are actually going to try and get out of. That

is what I did, I shouldn't have done it t I should have confessed

and said no. But I did, and that I apologise for. There is a

difference between filling in a form and doing what you say you

difference between filling in a have been told many, many other

people have done in taking the points. And making a public

declaration that you know to be untrue. What does that feel like? I

think that the key point and what made me change my mind was getting

into the prospect of court and having to lie under oath. That I

wasn't prepared to do. So I wasn't prepared to perjure myself or

prepared to go into court and have a tremendous battle with my ex-wife.

But lying to the public and on camera wasn't a problem? The

But lying to the public and on reality is I didn't look terribly

happy doing that as you saw. What are we supposed to deduce from your

face? The reality is I wasn't, it was something I regret. Did you

ever happen to tell lies as a minister? No.This was an entirely

novel experience? Well I wouldn't say that, I think that anybody who

tells you that they have never told a lie is almost certainly lying.

And I think that I wouldn't dream of putting you on the spot and ask

you if you have ever told a lie. But the reality is that white lies,

at least, small lies, do help social circumstances and avoid you

hurting people's feelings and so forth, and the definition is

something that is there. But that wasn't this particular case? That

something that is there. But that is what I say, the only defence I

can make for the behaviour then is essentially this was something that

would have such enormous consequences for my family, for me,

my career and everything else, that actually given that it was afterall

not impairing national defence, it was not perinjureing yourself in a

court, it was actually about sending St Petersburgering yourself

in court it was actual -- perjuing yourself in court. When I did plead

guilty I resigned my place in parliament. You go on to talk about

Rupert Murdoch having a vendetta, is there any evidence of that? I

say maybe it is a coincidence, but I give circumstantial reasons for

why it might not be. You say very strongly that you were a victim of

the Murdoch press? One of the reasons that makes me think it

might be the case was something out on Newsnight some time back, you

interviewed the former police officer put on to trailing me and

my partner and he was also, by the way, put on to trailing lawyers in

the case who were representing claimants against News

International. Now that's not something that had any public

interest, it was purely an issue of News International defending its

patch. And I think that when it was confronted as it was, with an mabs

luetly monstrous set of accusations that had a dramatic effect on -- an

absolutely Monday trous set of accusations that had a dramatic

affect on the share price, and Murdoch had to split the paper.

They were desperate to close it down as much as possible, I believe

that the fact that the News of the World put a very substantial effort

into retaining me, it was a retired police officer, that was expensive,

I guessed there was something going on. You used the verb "groomed",

you say the Sunday Times groomed your ex-wife? Why that word? There

were two accept soweds going on, the big investment by the news --

two episodeed going on, the big investment by the News of the World,

and then they don't use it until I get into the cabinet, even though

they have it. The second thing is when the Sunday Times works at it,

grooming is not an unfair...It Is a very loaded word to use? It is not

an unfair word to use, they were made public in the trial. The e-

mail exchanges and the voicemail exchanges between the journalist

involved and my ex-wife, I think it is a fair ago jective. You can --

adjective, you can judge that for yourself. You went to prison, how

was that? It was extremely gruelling, whatever one says about

it. The Sun likes to refer to open prisons as the Savoy of slammers,

the reality is you lose your prisons as the Savoy of slammers,

freedom and it is an enormous punishment, there is no doubt about

that whatsoever. How did you pass the time? Well different ways, but

one of the which I always try to do in any circumstance is to be as

active as possible. But of course in an open prison, one of the

things that people forget is the whole point of open prisons is they

are actually at the end of long sentences for people who have

committed murder and so forth. And people working in prisons, you are

working 40 hours a week and you are quite tired. A lot of the old lags

who have been in the prison systems where they don't have to work find

it difficult there. What sort of work were you doing? I was working

in DHL, which was a packing outfit, basically picking things like

tobacco for other prisoners in 17 prisons and putting them in

packages and sending them out. Did you read while you were there? I

did. What did you read?I read some Balzac and Hillary Mantel, I

thought that it was splendid that I had been a disgraced minister in

the 21st century rather than a Tudor one, my head would have been

on the spike in the Tower of London. A grand comparison to make. You

think looking back on it, it was probably a good thing you didn't

get the leadership for your party? Well, history has a curious

business, there are all sorts of turning points. I mean as it

happened I began the affair that I began after I had lost the

leadership, so you know who knows. began after I had lost the

It is all Nick Clegg's fault? I don't think it is anybody's fault

except my own. All I was trying to do in the Guardian article, a

running commentary on these things, to say this is a newspaper group

which has enormous interests, and it is prepared to defend them very

brutally on occasion. And you know, if somebody has a weakness it will

go for it, that is fine. It was my own weakness that created the

problems, and I entirely accept my responsibility. But don't

underestimate the fact that here is a newspaper group which has

underestimate the fact that here is enormous power, and every time it

has more powerful, every time Rupert Murdoch has got another

political concession from the Government of the day, it has

become more difficult to resist. Coming back to you, is your

political career over for good? Over. Forever?Yeah. The reality is

you cannot conceivably run, in my view, having done what I have done.

So my political career is over. Thank you. Now seven active and

former BBC bigwigs entertained Thank you. Now seven active and

Public Accounts Committee today by fighting like cats in a sack. If

BBC journalists were as confused, blustering and fractious as the

management of its organisation, it would have decomposed long ago. The

less than magnificent seven were being cross-examined on who knew

what and when about the large payments made to executives deemed

surplus to requirements. Steve Hewlett, who left the BBC, without

a massive pay-off, reports. Lights, camera action, at least

that was the billing for today's BBC appearence at the Public

Accounts Committee, actually it is their third on the subject of

senior executive severence pay. But this performance, for one night

only, as they say, was different. Why? Because of the cast. Top

billing former Director General Mark Thompson, up against current

Trust chairman, Lord Patten, trust director normally strictly

background, Nicholas Kroll and Sir Michael Lyons, all playing lead

roles. Welcome to the biggest show in town, this afternoon it is. So

what I'm a sure will be reported in the rest of the press and media as

the latest in a long line of BBC balls-ups. The biggest you hear is

executive pay and executive pay- offs, nothing new in that. The plot

for this hearing has taken an unexpectedly nasty twist. With

allegations on all sides of corporate cover-up and conspiracy.

First of up was Mark Thompson, who rejected any suggestion that he had

misled or concealed information from the Trust previously about the

details of the £949,000 pay-off to exdeputy Director General, Mark

Byford. You do think the suggestion made that I and my colleagues had

withheld important information about the Mark Byford and Sharon

Bayley settlements, from the BBC Trust, that the Trust were kept in

the dark and they would be "just as interested as you the PAC of why we

didn't know" is untrue and unfair. Lord Patten rejected any suggestion

he had known or could have done. True the National Audit Office had

criticised the BBC for paying the executives more than they were

contractually entitled to. He, Lord Patten, wasn't even there when the

dirty deed was done. First of all, since the previous Trust didn't

know that payments had been made outside contracts, why should I

have known as a new Trust chairman. Is it really likely that the

Director General would say to me, look, the previous Trust didn't

know that these were paid outside contract, or paid in what I design

as in contract though it is not the same as the NAO's view of what a

contract is. Is it likely that I would have had briefing to tell me

that. Axe sayings were traded and temp -- accusations were traded and

tempers frayed. The show rolled on, MPs became more then a little

exasperated. Less conspiracy MPs became more then a little

perhaps, and chaos maybe? We can't find the most important document

because it had a code name. It is the most Tsar game of Whack a Mole

in my life. I can see you are telling me the truth as you can see

it, but to the public it looks like somebody is lying. At best it is

incompetence, at worst we may have seen people covering their backs by

being less than open. Well, that's what Margaret Hodge, and I dare say

most of her committee thought. How much wiser are we after today's

performance. Did Thompson set out to hoodwink the Trust with his

deals on executive severence, well, no. Did the Trust's original

position that they knew absolutely nothing about any of this, no

documents, no recollections, did that sustain? No. On the other hand,

did they thorough approve in any direct way what Thompson did, that

wasn't proved either. Perhaps more knock about than knockout. With one

exception, everybody agreed the Trust is bust. Let's have a normal

board, any other organisation, including media organisations,

which is a cheerleader and champion for that organisation, but also has

a responsibility to hold its executives to account. Let's have

regulation done by somebody else. Would you expect regulation by

regulation done by somebody else. someone else, let's say Ofcom, but

whoever it is, to look at executive pay? No.And there's the problem,

this isn't a regulatory conundrum at all, it is all about governance,

on that front, if you didn't have something like the BBC Trust, with

different rules maybe, you might just have to invent it. And that

would be an issue no doubt as the BBC charter renewal moves centre

stage between now and 2017. With us now is Lord Grade, the last chair

of the PBC board of governors, which was replaced by the -- BBC

bored of governor, which was replaced by the Trust. He hired

Mark Thompson as Director General. This was a pretty awful spectacle

today? It was unhe hadifying. -- unhe hadifying, what got --

edifying, what got lost in the translation is the BBC overspent in

an effort to save a great deal of money which was veryle valuable and

needed to be done. They are going - - very valuable and needed to be

done. They will save £30 million, but they overspent in getting there.

What do you think went wrong, looking at those relationships

there, and who knew what when and how it was run and the fag packet

nature of some of the calculation and deals that were done. What went

wrong in corporate culture? I think the BBC suffers more and more from

a lack of understanding the value of money. A cheque comes in every

April for £3.5 billion and if you don't have to earn the money, and

you have got that quantity of money, it is very hard to keep a grip on

you have got that quantity of money, reality of the value of money. If

you run a business and you own the business you switch the light out

at 6.00pm, everybody has gone, you walk around yourself, you own the

business it is your and you have earned it the hard way. The culture

of the BBC of late has been definitely a loss of a sense of the

value of money. Let's turn now to the question of the Director

General and the management structure. You hired Mark Thompson?

He emerged from an open process. Of which you were in charge? Yes, I

was chairman. Do you think you paid him too much? On reflection, yes, I

benchmarked him since what he was earning at Channel 4, and he came

to run the BBC, a much more complex and huge organisation. For less

money than he was earning at Channel 4. On reflection maybe we

paid him too much, or maybe we didn't bargain hard enough with him

over his salary. Since that point, you know, salaries have escalated

and escalated to the point where the old dictum that you worked for

the BBC for a discount has gone. However, in the days when you

worked, I took the biggest pay cut in history to work for the BBC. I

was earning £500,000 in Hollywood, and I became the controller of the

BBC for £28,000 a year and a parking space. You had an index-

linked pension and job for life in those days. It is a very insecure

life at the BBC today. The BBC in the last eight-to-ten years. It is

life at the BBC today. The BBC in if you are down the food chain, but

if you are one of these guys getting these enormous pay-offs it

is not that uncomfortable? In the light of events certainly no. I can

see Tony Hall, the new Director General, and Chris Patten himself,

absolutely determined to reverse that process. The BBC has to learn

the value of money. It is like being a very wealthy son of a rich

family, you don't have to go to work you get an allowance every

week, you don't learn the value of money. The BBC is in that position,

cultural low it has lost thele value, they bought a business, a

post production service. A year later they are selling it at a loss,

we don't know why and what. There is no sense of the value of money.

To be wealthy and inept is quite a dangerous combination? I don't

think anybody has been inept. That sounds inept, you buy a business

one year and sell it the next? I thought you were referring to the

hearing this morning. There is no thought you were referring to the

connection between that point and this question, which is, it is

possible that Mark Byford is watching this. If you were him do

you think he should, or would you return the money? That is a matter

for him. What I would say about Mark Byford, if he had still been

deputy Director General you wouldn't have had the McAlpine

horkwhror and you wouldn't have had the -- horror or the Savile horror.

So he was worth it? He was a great asset to the BBC and the BBC has

suffered as a result of his department tour. What price you put

on that -- departure. What price you put on that is a matter that is

history now. Thank you very much. Thank you.

The trades unions voted today for a mass programme of what they called

civil and industrial action to protest at cut in public spending.

Yes, it is that true sign that autumn is upon it, the annual TUC

conference, being a story the Chancellor thinks they are mad and

claimed today that his cuts are turning around the economy.

Tomorrow the Labour leader will do his turn at the conference, and try

toe later rest accusations that his recent comments on the unions -- to

lay to rest that sack sayings that his recent -- -- Hundreds,

thousands of union members here at the TUC, right now pretty much

automatically they are signed up as Labour members of the but not in

the future. If Ed Miliband has his way they will have to choose.

Success for the Labour leader means less of this.

This event, the TUC Congress has diminished in significance as the

industrial muscle of trade unions has also decreased over the last

few decades. This year it is different. It is a trial of

political musclele. Ed Miliband versus the unions. After the Unite

union was accused of vote rigging in the Falkirk selection, Ed

Miliband promise the reform with union lipgs. Some warned it would

be fewer members and less funding. Since then they have put it into

action. The GMB and Unison have reduced funding. Unite is still on

side with Labour. We have welcomed the proposals to engage in a new

way and relationship and listen to what it means. Why are you so

positive and they so negative? I don't think they are negative, they

have responded in a particular fashion because of Ed's proposals.

Hand on heart, Len McCluskey, can you say it has nothing to do with

the fact that a few days ago your union was exonerated over damaging

charges in Falkirk? In Falkirk we said from the outset that we had

done nothing wrong. To you think Ed Miliband has displayed good

leadership skills? I think since he has become leader. With this

incident? To be the leader of the Labour Party is the most difficult

job in politics. More than the Tories? Much more.More than

your's? Much more difficult than mine. It is the most difficult job

in politics and he has held the mine. It is the most difficult job

party together. Why is it the most difficult job in politics? Because

it is a broad church the Labour Party. Last year of Labour's £33

million of income, £8 million would be in jeopardy. From this pot the

JMB has withdrawn £1.05 million, and Unison, much less, £2 10,000.

Is it a negotiating position. Will unions fold, even if he stands firm.

You will give the money back in another form in the next election?

That may be the casek we have to justify that in terms it of

policies and have a clear definition of employment rights,

bedroom tax, tax avoidance, offshoring, there is lots of things.

It needs clear distinct policies that is going to chime with the

electorate, that at the moment does not seem to be coming through. Do

electorate, that at the moment does you think he's mature? I think he's

maturing very fast. We have Ed Miliband coming tomorrow, how do

maturing very fast. We have Ed you think he has been treating the

unions recent low? Appallingly. Very badly. What can he do to make

up for it? Retract some of the things he has said. If he doesn't?

That is a decision for the whole of Congress. Ed Miliband has dug

himself a great big hole. Most of the people at this conference are

probably going to find it very difficult to believe anything he

says. It is not just disgruntled union members, some of whom are

working down below. It is also pressure on the Labour leader, from

the right of the party. Those people who think he didn't say or

do enough over the summer. That's not hugely fair, is it, to be

criticised on the one hand for being too decisive over Labour's

link with the unions, and on the other to be criticised for being

too indecisive, forenot coming up with enough ideas, that is politics

for you. Shadow Cabinet member and Ed Miliband's allies alike tell me

that they believe, right now, his leadership is in a bad place.

An economic recovery for a few not the many is Ed Miliband's attack on

the Government. He brings a gift to the TUC tomorrow, he will ban the

zero hour contracts. Rumbling away in the background is a fear, that

Labour donations in years to come may also now be from the few and

not the many. Our political editor is still in

Bournemouth, where the TUC are meeting. What will he say tomorrow,

Ed Miliband? That the leader is not for turning. That these reforms

that may see him bring in fewer, lower resources for funding the

Labour Party, he's pushing ahead with it. Siren voices are saying it

is an incredibly baded idea. What we know about his speech tomorrow

is he will say this could be God for the Labour Party everybody. We

currently have 200,000 members, with my reforms we could go up to

500,000. The anoracks will no that is more than any other party put

together. It is an extraordinary amount. For this bold statement he

will probably be boed, as you saw in our package, that was just a

handful, many, many more were critical of him tomorrow. The

reception will not be warm. That will be a problem that reflects

concern in the Labour Party, but also in the highest echelons of the

Labour Party. A forethat Ed Miliband's team didn't think it --

a fear that Ed Miliband's team didn't think it through further. If

you don't bring in the union members and bring on side the union

leaders, a cash-strapped Labour Party becomes even more cash-

strapped, just before a general election. Thank you very much. To

discuss all this I'm joined by the Shadow Chief Secretary to the

Treasury. How close is the Labour Party to

the TUC. When you look at something like the TUC's resolution today

about a day of action in November, like the TUC's resolution today

strikes and civil disobedience, do you support that? We don't want to

see industrial action, I don't think it is the right course of

action. So you don't support it? What about the end to the cap on

public sector pay, do you support that? What we have said on public

sector pay is the 1% restraint needs to continue because the mess

George Osborne has made of the economy. We would use the 1% and

gear it toward the lowest pay workers. People on higher pay in

the public sector would have pay frozen. But people at the lower end,

like we do with the living age would get more than 1%. The other

thing they decided of the end to zero hours contracts? Ed will talk

about that in the speech tomorrow. We have said that we think threeth

three things should happen. First of all people who are on zero hour

contracts shouldn't have to work exclusive low for that company, as

is the case in many contracts. They shouldn't have to be available at

any time if they are not guaranteed work. If they are consistently

doing a certain number of hours, Ed will speak about that tomorrow. You

are not saying end all zero hours contracts? I'm not sure many trade

unions members would want them ended across the board. It will

transform how the contracts are woarked. Potentionally millions are

on. Do you know how many are?We have asked the Office for National

Statistics to publish the data, they don't do at the moment. How

many do you think could legitimately be on zero hours

contracts? We don't he know the situation at the moment. You don't

know much about zero hours interest rates? We have had asked the ONS to

publish the data, we hope they do. The Government are tacking no

action to change the use of them. The three reforms spoken about will

reduce that insecurity. That is the key thing here. People who are on

zero hours contracts they don't know whether they will be able to

pay the rent and bills next month. Or the month after that. If they

can have some security for people who are consist continually doing a

certain number of hours, if that can be reflected in their contracts,

those sorts of things will help them plan for the future. Your

party voted to ban zero hours contracts in 1995. You then had 13

years in Government where you didn't do it? We have seen a big

growth in zero hours contracts. The numbers announced it might be as

many as 5.5 million. You said that although you don't know. You don't

know how many there should be? If the data isn't published I can't

and nobody can. You rejected in principle? For some students they

want the flexibility. What we are hearing is more and more people

saying that they are being abused by employers, who are keeping

people on zero hours contracts, who are saying they have to be

available at any time, and yet they can't guarantee them work. People

available at any time, and yet they on zero hours contracts can't get a

mortgage or rent properties on zero hours contracts can't get a

they don't have the security of income. That abuse has to end. That

is what Ed will talk about. Let's look at the question of the

managment of the economy, if people won't trust you to run the economy

when things are going really badly, once things start improving a

little bit, as they may be at present. Why should they trust you

little bit, as they may be at any more? I think it is about what

the parties have to offer for the future. We are talking about what I

think are the issues that really matter to people, so for example

zero hours contract, and minimum wage, the starting 10p rate of tax

funded by a tax on property worth more than £2 million. A job

guaranteed for young people out of work for more than a year. Those

are the sorts of things I know in my constituency would make a huge

difference to people's lives, those are the sorts of things we are

going to be promising in our manifesto in 2015. The policies

will make a real difference to people's lives. George Osborne says

that the economy is growing, it is all doing very well. It is

incredibly out-of-touch, when for most people things are getting

harder not easier, the living standards are falling and the cost

of living going open. They pr formed at the Opening Ceremony for

the London Olympics, they have headlined at Glasgow and five

successful studio albums. The Artic Monkeys jouorny has been un--

journey has been unstoppable. Their latest offering is out today.

Stephen Smith looks at the band and he has never been accused of not

looking good on the dance floor. # To Newsnight oh yeah

Did he just say "Newsnight" # The Newsnight oh yeah

He did, deal with that Grimmy, get your own, inclusive Ken Bruce.

This is a customised version of one of the new tracks debuted by the

Artic Monkeys at the Roundhouse in London earlier this evening. Their

Artic Monkeys at the Roundhouse in fifth album is released today. # My

best days # Is when the sunset gets a chill

Shall we make a start. How do you feel about that. Commit to

celluloid. The main creative force, Alex Turner, told us about their

slightly new direction. So what are we saying, hip hop has always been

an influence yeah on the lyrics, but I think it is perhaps a bit

more, we have worn that influence on our sleeve a bit more on this

record. I suppose it is only subject low borrowing some elements

from that world -- subtlely borrowing some elements from that

world. # I'm not finished

# You're not by my side There is no rapping in there? Not

yet. Well what about live, maybe you would want to spit your truth,

or bust some verse or whatever the phrase is? What is the phrase?I'm

not quite sure. I spit nothing but the truth claim. That is --!That

is the truth. I'm the same.It felt like we were about to step out into

the lunar surface or something. # I bet you look good on the dance

Quite a big booking, an Opening Ceremony of the London Olympics

. The six minutes we were on stage

came after like a two-month build- up or something, so many rehearsals,

we spent quite a lot of time in that stadium that week just

fretting, I suppose. I think it was definitely a big moment for us,

suddenly we were something else then. Like it wasn't the way our

fans even or people perhaps perceived us, maybe that changed. I

try not to get caught up in that too much.

# Crawling back to you # Never thought I would

The Artic Monkeys got their break by sharing their songs over the

Internet. But Alex Turner secretly learns for a whorey version of the

rock 'n' roll MO. Are you sorry that the old model is broken a bit,

that it is difficult to get platinum albums and like the Eagles

or whoever? Sometimes you wish it was just the 70s where you could

have you know playing in a beer belly and it was all right. You

know what I mean. But now you have got to go to the gym and stuff.

So that makes Turner an enemy of the buff and bland X Factor then?

Not necessarily. People get too hung up on kind of, or get too

angry about the whole X Factor and talent shows. Because you almost

just let them get on with it. You need that to kick against, I think.

If you are going to you know, it is yeah. People talk about how that

has ruined everything. There has always been shitty pop music.

Whether it came from a television show or not.

# Let's hear you The conquerers of Glastonbury now

reside in Los Angeles. Though Alex Turner maintains Sheffield will

always be home. Is it true you still take your laundry home to

your mum? I did do some laundry at home last week when I played for a

couple of days. I did get that treatment, actually, you know. And

what about ...They Always go the extra mile the mums, do you want me

to do it by hand. Put the Comfort in, other softeners are available.

Soak it, this is looking a bit too off-white, shall we do something

about that. We should interview his mum next

week, before we go news that in Washington President Obama has

described the Russian proposal for Syria to put all chemical weapons

under international control as "potentially positive" he has said

he will take it seriously. That is it for now. The world of wrestling

has celebrated its return as an Olympic sport. The ancient Greeks

had it as "it" Olympic sport. In this country we are still getting

over seeing men at the peak of their condition giving it their all.

This is not what the IOC has in mind, apparently.