13/09/2013 Newsnight


13/09/2013

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to make his big pitch to the Lib Dem conference, stick with the

:00:14.:00:17.

coalition, and as importantly, stick with him. Ignore flirtations

:00:17.:00:22.

with Labour at the conference this week, the only conversation in

:00:22.:00:25.

Glasgow may be what kind of coalition we get after the election.

:00:25.:00:28.

Saving the environment, with heavy industry and GM crops. Bring it on

:00:28.:00:32.

says the deputy editor of the Economist.

:00:32.:00:36.

This man masterminded Barack Obama's on-line election campaign,

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has media power now gone from TV to Twitter. We will hear this...#

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Ahhhh. And oh the handbags and the glad

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rags, on the catwalk at London Fashion Week.

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Good evening Nick Clegg has a job of work to do at the party annual

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conference this weekend. The Liberal Democrats poll ratings are

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in the doldrums, one of his rising stars, Sara Tether, has thrown in

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the towel. According to the latest stars, Sara Tether, has thrown in

:01:15.:01:19.

Ipsos mori survey of the party supporters, almost half believe

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Nick Clegg is taking the party in the wrong direction. It has not

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been a summer of fun for Labour or Conservatives either. Assessing the

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conference to come. Soft centre? Something harder?

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Perhaps you prefer your politics a bit NUTier. Conference season

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normally has it all. It is where the parties compete to tempt voters.

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The start of this year's conferences mark exactly 600 days

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until the election. Sweet news for Nick Clegg, whose conference comes

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first, is he goes into the conference season perhaps the most

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secure out of all the party leaders, with the least to worry about from

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the coming few weeks. Friday the 13th didn't start so

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well for the Lib Dem leader, a call for him to step down from the

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former fresh spokesman Lord Oakeshott. He said the ratings were

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down at levels, which if you go back, were only seen by Mrs

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Thatcher shortly before she left and Michael Foot. The call gained

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no traction with Vince Cable, he disowned the comments and Nick

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Clegg was able to shrug them off. It is like foul weather in the

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autumn, it comes around regularly at this time of year, and as do

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remarks by Lord Oakeshott. He has said them before about previous

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leaders, you have people like that said them before about previous

:02:45.:02:49.

in politics. One of the reasons Nick Clegg sleeps well right now is

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there are no obvious contenders for their job. Had Chris Huhne been

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acquitted earlier in the year, he would have been the obvious answer

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to that question. Given what has happened with him. Actually there

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isn't an obvious alternative leader, in particular because a lot of the

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criticism levelled at Nick Clegg is by virtue of him being the leader

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of a small party in Government. That is why activists do understand

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if there was a new leader of the party they would be in exactly the

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same position and face the same criticisms. The Lib Dems have had a

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few sweet successes this year, defeating the Conservatives on

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boundary reform and childcare ratios went down very well with the

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base, as did killing off the Communications Data Bill. The

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budget announcement that the Lib Dem policy of a £10,000 tax-free

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allowance would be reached by 2014 was also seen as a victory for the

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party. That all came before the hugely important political news of

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better economic figures. The economy is starting to turn a

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corner because of the Lib Dems, without us showing remarkable unity

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and resolve over the last period, we wouldn't have produced, as we

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have done, over a million-and-a- half new jobs in the private sector.

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We wouldn't have provided the confidence to businesses to employ

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more people and investing in businesses and getting the economy

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growing again. Nick Clegg has secured his party leadership may be

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good news for him, does it matter if nobody going to vote for his

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party? At the moment they are bumping along at around about 11

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points in the polls, they have shed bumping along at around about 11

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a third Lib Dem members since 2010, however, both of the other party

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leaders have their problems too. At the moment Liberal Democrat MPs are

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more confident of holding on to their seats, therefore they are

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more confident of holding on to less jumpy and ease yr to lead. --

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easier to lead. Since Nick Clegg last addressed his

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party his position may have strengthened, but he still faces

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challenges next week, motions on Trident, the 50p tax rate, the

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spare room subsidy and tuition fee, all promise to be uncomfortable.

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With Britain ruled out of military action in Syria and the economy

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looking well, there is nothing it that trip the party into an

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existential fist fight. That means they can all concentrate their

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address in trying to push the other parties out of the picture. Now we

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speak to our political editor. Where do you think the sparks will

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fly at conference conference? There will be a few sparks, I was amazed

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that there was 600 days to the next election. There will be sparks at

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the conference, many more in the 600 days. The sparks will be quite,

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quite massive, but nothing compared to what we will see close to the

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election. We will get row over the economy. There is some who want

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some kind of Plan B, they always get this at Lib Dem conferences.

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Today we gather that Nick Clegg will put forward his own amendment

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and personalise it, and say if you defeat this you will defeat me. I

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would say that will be avert, there is also nuclear supsidies and a

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couple of others. You will hear a lot of rows coming out of Lib Dem

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conference, and it is fair to say, my sources tell me, at a very

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senior meeting of Conservative and Lib Dem ministers, they regularly

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meet for this thing called coalition r 2.0. The clue is in the

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name, ministers who would like the coalition to continue after the

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next election. The last meeting of that, just before the summer, was

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very rancour res, partly because of the story we broke on Newsnight

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that Nick Clegg said he wanted to unilaterally kill the childcare

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ideas. You had an unhappy coalition, such that Conservatives at the

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dinner said to their Lib Dem counterparts, we don't believe

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anything you say any more, we think in the future you will go to Labour.

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The Lib Dems had to remonstrate and say we won't and we have an open

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mind. The reason I tell this story and it is relevant this is now I

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gather from very good people, including friends of the Prime

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Minister, it is being patched up because of Syria. Syria has

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massively changed the mood between the two guys at the top. That is

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what made the coalition seem to get the two guys at the top. That is

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along better, simply over Syria? I think there is for David Cameron

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and Nick Clegg there has been a realise that Ed Miliband will do

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what he needs to do politically to get into the best spot. That

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clarifies what the next coalition negotiations might be like. So

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worth waiting for? Now in the history of the world, there have

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been five huge waves of ex tifpbgss, one wiped out dinosaurs and one

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wiped out 98% of the life on earth. Many think there is a next wave,

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caused by us. That is if you believe that economic growth and

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technologies like GM destroy biodiversity and ecosystems. Emma

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Duncan doesn't believe anything of the sort and believes the green

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lobby is wrong-headed, she is in the studio as is Craig Bennett, who

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disagrees. Here is Emma on why we and the world's creatures might not

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be going to hell in a four-wheel drive.

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Since man sharpened his first spear he has been killing off other

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species at an astonishing rate. All the world's continents used to have

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great beasts like Africa's elephants and Rhinos, in Britain we

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used to have giant deer with Antlers 12-feet wide. Most

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scientists believe these huge creatures got wiped out as people

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spread across the globe and killed them off. Progress and economic

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growth have allowed mankind to dominate the planet, to the point

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where we have squeezed out other species. Many environmentalists

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believe unless we slow growth down and adopt eco friendly technologies,

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we will condemn more species to extinction. I don't believe that is

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right. Right now we are at a crucial juncture for other species,

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the earth has seen five waves of destruction caused by geological

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events. Now even without climate change damage, scientists think man

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has pushed the world to the brink of a sixth great extinction. If you

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look at the underlying rate of current extinctions, I'm inclined

:09:57.:10:00.

to say we are right on the tipping point. The numbers of species going

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extinct annually could be as few as 200 but as many as well over 10,000.

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While it is true if there weren't seven billion on the planet, other

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species would be having a more comfortable time. The problem isn't

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growth, it is poverty. Look at a satellite map of the island of

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Hispaniola, the western side is Haiti, where people's average

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income is $771 a year. It has been striped bear, not surprising,

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people who can't afford fuel chop trees down. On the eastern side of

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the island is the Dominican Republic, where the average income

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is $5,800 a year, it has plenty of forest. Richer countries have

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better Government, and without a decent Government you can't have

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conservation work. Richer countries clean up their rivers and their air.

:10:54.:10:59.

Population growth, which is the biggest problem for other species,

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slows as countries get richer, and people start pressing their

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Governments for change. That is what happened in the west in the

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1960s with the formation of groups like Greenpeace, and WWF, that

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played a large part in the passage of laws, to clean up the

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played a large part in the passage environment and protect other

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species. You can see how things have

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improved in this countries as we have got richer. Our rivers, once

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little better than open sewer are getting cleaner all the time. You

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can see the wildlife coming back. 30 years ago there were otters in

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6% of the sites surveyed by the Environment Agency. In the most

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recent survey it had spread to 60%. And in China, which has made a huge

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mess of its environment, National Parks are being create at an

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astonishing pace. It set up the first one in 1982 and now has

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three-times the amount of land in National Park as America has.

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London Zoo is nearly 200 years old. The technological progresses has

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London Zoo is nearly 200 years old. revolutionised the work of

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conservationists in recent years. Conservation used to be done mostly

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by men in shorts with not much more than a pair of binoculars, here it

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has heavy duty technology at its disposelia. In Brazil

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environmentalists used NASA site light data to embarrass politicians

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environmentalists used NASA site into doing something about

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deforestation. That is one of the main reasons why deforestation in

:12:34.:12:41.

the Brazilian Amazon has fell down to 5,000 square metres last year.

:12:41.:12:46.

Technology has also had a huge impact on agriculture. Fertiliser,

:12:46.:12:50.

pesticides and genetically modified seeds have boosted farm yields. In

:12:50.:12:55.

America, for instance, corn production has increased five-fold

:12:55.:13:00.

over the past 60 years, while the area harvested has increased by

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only half. With demand for food expected to double by 2050, if we

:13:04.:13:08.

are to leave any land for other species, we have to make farming

:13:08.:13:13.

more intensive still. And use all the tools available to us. This is

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why a former anti-GM company parts company with those in the green

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movement, who don't like intensive ago culture, and would prefer we

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farmed organically. You really have to use twice as much land to

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produce the same amount of food and crops with organic. If the whole

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world was to turn organic it would mean essentially destroying all the

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rainforest to feed the number we have now. Intensive and

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conventional farming for all of the ills is a very efficient way of

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using land. The challenge now is to sustainably intensify to produce

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more food for a growing human population and hopefully a

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reduction in land area to be prevefrd for natural areas and eek

:13:59.:14:04.

toe-is is emit is. The why -- and ecosystems. The idea

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here my seem odd. We need to change our thinking about how best to look

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after other species, if we are going to avoid the sixth great

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extinction. Emma Duncan and Craig Bennett of Friends of the Earth

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joins me now. Emma is right in the developed world Governments are

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responsible, Governments create good policy which reduces, for

:14:30.:14:35.

example, pollution? I think we have seen obviously a strong growth of

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environmental movement in the seen obviously a strong growth of

:14:37.:14:40.

developed world over the last 40 years which has been really

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successful in encouraging Government to put in basic

:14:43.:14:46.

pollution controls. We haven't seen any real attempts to make sure that

:14:46.:14:51.

our consumption and lifestyles are sustainable and work within

:14:51.:14:54.

environmental limits. It is wrong to suggest that some how there is

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not a strong environmental movement in the developing world. Actually

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Friends of the Earth, we are part of the international group with

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groups in over 80 countries, most in developing countries.

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I think that is absolutely right and one of the great developments

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we are seeing. With economic growth you get the environment getting

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worse up to a certain point, and then you get things getting better

:15:18.:15:24.

as people get richer. One of the reasons that happens is people

:15:24.:15:27.

start minding about their environment, once they have

:15:27.:15:31.

satisfied their basic needs like food, shelter, education they start

:15:31.:15:37.

caring more about things on a wider basis.

:15:37.:15:39.

All growth is good, let's take the might of dairy farmers in this

:15:39.:15:45.

country. They are going to the wall every single week because cheap

:15:45.:15:50.

milk is brought in from Lithuania and Poland. Is that better for us,

:15:50.:15:56.

that milk is older and the carbon footprint of bringing it in and no

:15:56.:16:01.

sustainable dairy industry. Is that the kind of thing that reduces

:16:01.:16:06.

pollution? You have to look at it on a wider scale and look at what

:16:06.:16:11.

growth brings, it brings sewage systems, poor countries can't

:16:11.:16:15.

afford that. You build a sewage system you clean your rivers up,

:16:15.:16:20.

you start introducing regulation to make the air cleaner because people

:16:20.:16:25.

want cleaner air. Every age people get richer they want their

:16:25.:16:27.

environment cleaned up. I think it is a really old fashioned approach

:16:27.:16:31.

actually to suggest that all that matters is the quantity of growth.

:16:31.:16:36.

And this obsession with how much percentage points of growth we are

:16:36.:16:40.

talking about is very misleading. We need to be having a discussion

:16:40.:16:44.

not so much about the quantity of growth, but the quality of growth.

:16:44.:16:46.

If we left the studio and went and growth, but the quality of growth.

:16:46.:16:51.

smashed a few shop windows, it would add to GDP a tiny bit. It

:16:51.:16:56.

would not add to the quality of people's lives. We need to talk

:16:56.:16:59.

about the purpose of the economy, what is it for, how can it lead to

:16:59.:17:04.

real human progress and make life better on this planet. The

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scientists have changed their view from anti-GM to say they are good

:17:09.:17:14.

for the planet? A journalist.They feed more people using less

:17:14.:17:18.

territory? Again that's a very forced dichotomy. What we need to

:17:18.:17:22.

do is not think about a reductionist approach about whether

:17:23.:17:26.

this bit of land here is for agriculture and this bit of land

:17:26.:17:30.

for urban areas and this bit for something else. What wf learned

:17:30.:17:36.

over the last few decades is to get multiple uses out of the land. And

:17:36.:17:40.

not to have the agricultural deserts we have in East Anglia, we

:17:40.:17:46.

need to think about biodiversity living in areas where we use axe

:17:46.:17:54.

culture. If you are going to have the organic agriculture that

:17:54.:17:56.

Friends of the Earth want, you will plough up every piece of wild

:17:56.:17:59.

territory on the earth. Isn't the argument the consumption?

:17:59.:18:03.

We have actually got to change our lifestyle, given the fine night

:18:03.:18:07.

resources. There is such a thing as unsustainable growth? If you look

:18:07.:18:11.

at countries that don't have growth you find they destroy their

:18:11.:18:14.

environments much more quickly than those of you that have had growth

:18:14.:18:19.

and have the prosperity. Would you accept that? We have to have a

:18:19.:18:22.

sensible debate about what progress is in the 21st century. Do you

:18:22.:18:28.

accept be you say Friends of the Earth is operating, but do you

:18:28.:18:32.

accept in underdeveloped countries, for whatever reason, that pollution,

:18:32.:18:36.

problems with the environment are much greater than in developed

:18:36.:18:40.

countries? I think it is dangerous to generalise, at the end of the

:18:40.:18:45.

day if you look at one thing, carbon emissions we are worse in

:18:45.:18:48.

this country, developed countries, we are not taking it seriously

:18:48.:18:52.

enough to control those. You can focus on a few hours of pollution

:18:52.:18:57.

control, we are missing the big picture, in climate change it is

:18:57.:19:02.

the richer countries to blame far and away for climate change. Is

:19:02.:19:07.

carbon control a problem? We are not sure how, treem it will be, at

:19:07.:19:11.

the moment we haven't had any temperature increased for the last

:19:12.:19:17.

ten years. The range of estimates of what climate change might be

:19:17.:19:23.

have very, very large. What I do know if we want to decarbonise

:19:23.:19:31.

energy, without growth we won't get that. It is ridiculous to suggest

:19:31.:19:34.

that the environmental lobby is against new technology, we promote

:19:34.:19:38.

it all the time. Let's not have an ideolgical approach to suggest it

:19:38.:19:44.

is all good or all bad. We need a pragmatic approach, some are good

:19:44.:19:48.

and some bad and it depends on the context. Central London was

:19:48.:19:51.

swinging at the start of London Fashion Week, it has late low

:19:51.:19:55.

acquired edge with affects the fashion world's love of finer

:19:55.:20:03.

product dues, cashmere, silk and tweed. The arrival of a clutch of

:20:04.:20:08.

designers known all over the world, happening in le central London. I

:20:08.:20:16.

began not at the catwalk but outside an iconic British store.

:20:16.:20:25.

Who is your favourite British designer? Probably Matthew

:20:25.:20:30.

Williamson. Stella McCartney is good. Christopher Kane.At the

:20:30.:20:37.

moment Victoria Beckham. Young British designers and young

:20:37.:20:41.

British customers are very savvy, you might not be able to afford

:20:41.:20:47.

something from the catwalk collections but they make for the

:20:47.:20:50.

high street. Two collections for Topshop were a

:20:50.:20:56.

sell-out, the best collaboration Topshop had ever done and the

:20:56.:21:04.

customers came back for more. London Fashion Week is open for

:21:04.:21:08.

business, and Newsnight blagged a front row seat. While once London

:21:08.:21:12.

stood in the shadow of New York, Milan and Paris, it is now the big

:21:12.:21:17.

ticket. It is seen as such a creative place and people want to

:21:17.:21:23.

be part of it. Tom Ford, case in point, is based in London. It makes

:21:23.:21:26.

sense for people to be here. Over the next week, when the 58

:21:26.:21:33.

designers will show off their collections in front of the top

:21:33.:21:38.

journalist, bloggers and buyers, clothes are a serious business.

:21:38.:21:43.

With fashion contributing £21 billion to the economy. According

:21:43.:21:49.

to the British Fashion Council millions of orders will be placed

:21:49.:21:53.

over the next few days. Names like Richard Westley and Burberry will

:21:54.:22:00.

be there, as well as other brands reinventing themselves like Dax.

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The theme is Made in Britain, and the clamour is led by the younger

:22:05.:22:09.

designers. They manufacture on their doorstep and it is easier,

:22:10.:22:13.

some of the bigger brands are also looking at how they can do more

:22:13.:22:17.

manufacturing in the UK. Made in Britain, designed in Britain does

:22:17.:22:22.

sell. One of the freshest talents to combine British fabrics and

:22:22.:22:27.

sharp tailoring, is Christopher Raeburn. I watched him back stage

:22:27.:22:32.

as he revved up for the show. When I was studying I found there was

:22:32.:22:36.

already something of a loss of skills. In fact it was something

:22:36.:22:40.

that you turn it on the head and you realise it is an obligation as

:22:40.:22:46.

a young designer to continue, to really encourage and inspire

:22:46.:22:50.

manufacturing, the skills that go with it. Clearly my outfit wasn't

:22:50.:22:57.

quite up to scratch. This is a wool mac, this is from the autumn winter

:22:57.:23:02.

collection. It is pure pool and all the production for this is done in

:23:02.:23:06.

East London as well. We are hoping that will keep you nicely protected.

:23:06.:23:18.

The hall of packed and a Hughes sense of anticipation for

:23:18.:23:21.

Christopher Raeburn's first main show. The Business Minister was

:23:21.:23:31.

squashed in between the fashionistas in the front row, the

:23:31.:23:36.

clothes draped beautifully, the models immpossibly elegant and

:23:37.:23:39.

striking, well most of them. In less than 20 minutes it was all

:23:39.:23:44.

over. The fashion writers and buyers will decide if Christopher

:23:44.:23:48.

Raeburn will be next spring's must- have designer.

:23:48.:23:52.

It is amazing what you can do with just 140 characters. Last night in

:23:52.:23:56.

a single tweet Twitter announced the intention to float on the US

:23:56.:24:00.

stock market. The global media frenzy that followed is the

:24:00.:24:03.

clearest possible testament to the unique power of the medium. One man

:24:03.:24:06.

who understands that power more than most is Harper Reid, tech

:24:06.:24:13.

whizz and self-proclaimed cool buy, and the guy who ran the on-line

:24:13.:24:19.

campaign for Barack Obama's re- election last year. Are you first

:24:20.:24:25.

in the queue for Twitter shares? Yeah, maybe, it is such an

:24:25.:24:30.

interesting company because it has powered so many revolutions, real

:24:30.:24:36.

ref lugs and it has changed so many industries -- revolutions and it

:24:36.:24:39.

has changed so many industries. You would want a return on your money?

:24:40.:24:44.

How will they monetise, it there is talk of advertising on Twitter,

:24:44.:24:47.

will it not irritate people. I wonder how they will do it, they

:24:47.:24:53.

produced a company in the US, it is a large advertising network for

:24:53.:24:56.

mobile phones, maybe the advertising is just not on Twitter,

:24:56.:25:00.

but on the general internet or. Of. We will have to wait a see a bit.

:25:00.:25:05.

How do you think Twitter will change and how do you think the way

:25:05.:25:10.

people use Twitter will change? I don't think Twitter will change

:25:10.:25:17.

much. I do think people will be they might react interestingly if

:25:17.:25:21.

Twitter does drastic changes. But Twitter has had had a long time to

:25:21.:25:23.

mess this up and they haven't. I Twitter has had had a long time to

:25:23.:25:28.

don't know why an IPO would be a trigger to cause a problem. So

:25:28.:25:33.

actually they would not want to upset their customers as well as

:25:33.:25:40.

shareholders. Exactly.So you obviously have been the person in a

:25:40.:25:44.

sense who has revolutionised, in American politics, at least, the

:25:44.:25:49.

idea of using the on-line media. You had a team, but you were the

:25:49.:25:51.

guy? I had a team and some really You had a team, but you were the

:25:51.:25:56.

great co-workers that really helped out. You had people from Google and

:25:56.:26:02.

Craig's list, people from everywhere helping you? That whole

:26:02.:26:06.

pour of what is out there, mining data on people. Do you think

:26:06.:26:10.

essentially the Internet is not a place for privacy. The reason I say

:26:10.:26:20.

is I wonder looking at the revealing of certain things lately,

:26:21.:26:27.

Governments all over the world mine our data and others data? It is a

:26:27.:26:34.

hard thing to answer in a way I think I could go on for hours. It

:26:34.:26:40.

is a nuanced situation, on the one hand the goal is to stop terrorism,

:26:40.:26:46.

on the otherhand, I was the guy that had "internet freedom" written

:26:46.:26:50.

on my hand in a photocall. I wonder how we can have both of these

:26:50.:26:57.

things and if we can achieve both of them. With that said the

:26:57.:27:02.

Internet is challenging privacy as we know it, I'm 35 and I think in

:27:02.:27:09.

regards to internet privacy I'm old. When you look at 25-year-olds they

:27:09.:27:12.

use it so differently. When you look at 20 yearled olds they use it

:27:12.:27:17.

different from 25-year-olds, the younger you go, people who grew up

:27:17.:27:21.

with the interin the, their definition of privacy is completely

:27:21.:27:25.

different. Is it good or bad?I don't think we can make a judgment

:27:25.:27:30.

yet, any judgment we would make is using our pasts and lives and

:27:30.:27:34.

understanding that we grew up with to make the judgment. In that case

:27:34.:27:42.

isn't there a universal moral code, but more a gep rationale moral

:27:42.:27:48.

code? It is a paradime shift, we will talk -- Dara dime shift, we

:27:48.:27:52.

code? It is a paradime shift, we will talk about data and it should

:27:52.:27:57.

be secure, another person says the same word and means something

:27:57.:28:02.

different. I don't want to conflate it with NMA thing. Any talk about

:28:02.:28:09.

privacy you have toed accept that young people use the Internet --

:28:09.:28:12.

you have to accept that young people use the Internet in a

:28:12.:28:16.

different way. If you were working for Barack Obama, the on-line

:28:16.:28:20.

campaign, would some decent on-line campaign have made a difference to

:28:20.:28:24.

him had he been running up to the decision of whether or not to go

:28:24.:28:30.

for military intervention. Would he have been so out of step from the

:28:30.:28:35.

American people if you used your data mining? One thing for

:28:36.:28:40.

Governments, especially those working in social media and use it

:28:40.:28:45.

to listen. I know the White House really puts the ear to the ground

:28:45.:28:48.

and lisenceps to what people are saying. There is a lot of

:28:48.:28:52.

notifications, I got a notification from Twitter and the White House

:28:52.:28:55.

that the President of going to be doing a live address a couple of

:28:55.:28:59.

weeks ago. That is great, but how are they listening? How do the

:28:59.:29:03.

Governments around the world listen? That is the really

:29:03.:29:07.

interesting piece. Will you be back in for whatever candidates they

:29:07.:29:11.

are? They know my number and they should call, we will see how it

:29:11.:29:16.

goes, take some naps, see my wife, that might be fun.

:29:16.:29:21.

Last night we set you the challenge of cracking a secret code at the

:29:21.:29:25.

end of the programme. Well done to Danny for being the first to tweet

:29:25.:29:34.

with the correct answer. We extend the uncoded message to

:29:34.:29:36.

with the correct answer. you all:

:29:36.:30:02.

The Beatles are to release more live performances, 63 track, 37 of

:30:02.:30:11.

them previouslyen released. To get you in the mood here is a rare

:30:11.:30:15.

performance in the Odeon theatre 50 years and 16 days ago. In August

:30:15.:30:26.

1963, start screaming now. # Ahhhh

:30:26.:30:35.

# Shake it up baby # Twist and shout

:30:35.:30:42.

# Come on come on come on baby now # Come on and work it all out

:30:42.:30:49.

# Well you twist a little girl

:30:49.:30:50.

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