30/11/2015 Newsnight


30/11/2015

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Emily Maitlis.


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Tonight, Britain stands on the brink of

:00:00.:00:07.

military action in Syria - is it all down to splits in the Labour party?

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As Jeremy Corbyn bows to a free vote for his MPs,

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the numbers are mounting in support of David Cameron's call to arms.

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As many as 100 Labour MPs could support strikes on Syria, it has

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been a bruising episode four Labour. We'll be talking to

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Labour's front bench - and a close advisor of Tony Blair

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who took us into the Iraq war. The world is at the limits of

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suicide - warns Pope Francis - as 150 countries meet in

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Paris to slow down climate change. One man knows the planet

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better than most. We ask David

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Attenborough if world leaders are If we could

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harness 1/5,000th part of the energy the sun sprays on the

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earth we could provide all the energy requirements

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of the entire human race. And meeting the muse of

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Yves Saint Laurent, now putting his ?30 million collection of rare

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books up for sale. I don't think Mr Corbyn has

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a great career of mannequin. By an extraordinary convergence of

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political weakness and electoral mathematics, this country now stands

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on the brink of committing to war Jeremy Corbyn had gone into the

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meeting of his Shadow Cabinet expecting them to back

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his resistence to air strikes. He emerged - after pressure from his

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front bench - promising his MPs a free vote. What happens next comes

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down to a debate on Wednesday, which the prime minister has just tabled,

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and the vote that will follow. But from all the signs tonight, it looks

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as if the government could now have enough support from the opposition

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benches to give the PM the mandate he needs. Tonight, we'll look at the

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timetable for any future strikes, and whether the British public

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supports the action. We'll also ask how the relationship

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between the Labour leader, his cabinet and his supporters may have

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inadvertently brought us to where we are tonight.

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First up, here's Allegra Stratton. Today's Shadow Cabinet meeting is

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perhaps the most important gathering held in the Palace of Westminster so

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far this Parliament. Shadow Cabinet members told me they were on the

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verge of resignation before it. The meeting would decide whether Britain

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would strike Syria and also whether Syria would break Labour. In the

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hour before the meeting the office but at a poll conducted over the

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weekend that they said showed that 75% of Labour members who replied

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oppose the idea of strikes on Syria. I imagine that in this meeting

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Shadow Cabinet members will resist the opinion poll and its findings,

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they think it's the opinion that should matter. Over the weekend

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Jeremy Corbyn's team, the heirs to Tony Benn, looked as if they would

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dig in, force people to vote against as dogs and force a mass walk-out.

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Long negotiations with deputy leader Tom Watson attempted to bring the

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Labour leader back from the brink. We've just bumped into one of the

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closest allies of Jeremy Corbyn. This morning they thought there

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would be a free vote, now they say they are not social for three

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reasons. Firstly over the weekend many MPs have been shocked by the

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strength of feeling opposing striking Syria. The second, they say

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many numbers have also been shocked by the behaviour, the disloyalty of

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the parliamentary Labour Party. They feel the parliamentary Labour Party

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should support the leader. And secondly Jeremy Corbyn has made a

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life's work of opposing military action. There is a sense in which

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they say, if you cannot oppose this, what is the point of him. Moments

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later, the decision, a free vote after all. It is said Jeremy Corbyn

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offered a free vote of his own free will although it is said that he

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considered whipping a party to oppose ever strikes. It seems the

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party looks double headed, the leader saying one thing and the

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Shadow Foreign Secretary another. The fact is that there are different

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views on this within the Shadow Cabinet. Different views on this in

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the parliamentary party and probably different views within the public as

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well. Of course I understand what you are saying but it is a

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reflection of where we are with this debate. Lunch might even for those

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opposed to strike there was an happiness. I have never seen or

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heard anything like this before. The rule book says the decision on how

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and whether to whip is taken by the Shadow Cabinet. About is final. And

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for me as an MP is the web that matters, whether we have one or not.

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Fine if we have the views of 70,000 Labour Party members but you cannot

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make a policy like that on the hoof. It's the end of a long and tiring

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day and write know the Labour Party is meeting up those stairs and

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around the corner in their weekly meeting. The party is battered

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tonight. Also bent in two. The Shadow Foreign Secretary will make

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one case from the dispatch box, the Labour leader another. It is not as

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bad as it might have been. The party could have been dealing with mass

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resignations. What we had tonight was considered debate about Syria,

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which is what we should have been doing for the last four days. I feel

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this could have been handled a hell of a lot better. David Lambie, how

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was the meeting for you? Say what you really think! It was a very

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heated meeting. I found it deeply unfortunate that we as a party spent

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the weekend terribly internal about ourselves and not directed at this

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very serious decision. Stopping military action is an article of

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faith for Jeremy Corbyn. On this, he could have wept Labour, yet he shows

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-- he chose not to. It seems that Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party now

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looks unlikely to stop David Cameron.

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Joining me now, Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary Owen Smith

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who was in that Shadow Cabinet meeting for much of the afternoon.

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How many hours? The best part of two hours.

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You'll be voting against air strikes?

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Yes, Emily. I thought very carefully about this. I was someone who might

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have been persuaded by the Prime Minister and I did not speak last

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week, and I chose to think and talk to people over the weekend, as I

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have done in recent months, and I've come to the conclusion that the

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Prime Minister has, for me, for this MP, not made the case compellingly

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enough, either that limited bombing action, which is what he proposes,

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will assist in defeating Isil. I think we can all agree that that is

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what we ought to be aiming for. All achieve beyond that, lasting

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political resolution in Syria... You support Jeremy Corbyn on this? I do.

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I think the right thing is to do what he did do, come to the Shadow

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Cabinet, recognising the very real, sincerely held, profound

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differences... You know that wasn't the case. I don't know that, you

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asserted that in the introduction, all I know is that Jeremy came to

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the Shadow Cabinet today and said clearly, at the outset, that he was

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proposing that we have a free vote on this issue. I think it is the

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right thing to do. Reflecting both the sincerely held disagreements

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within the Labour Party but also reflective of the country. The

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people that I talk to our conflicted about this. They don't know what is

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necessarily the right thing to do. I think that if they had a clear

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understanding, as we do, of how limited proposal is coming from the

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Prime Minister, David Cameron is the person who should be questioned here

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tonight. It is he who has failed to... He ought to come on and

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explain... We've tried to cut the mathematics. It is all rough at this

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stage before Wednesday. It sounds as if we will be committing to a

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strikes, doesn't it, after that vote? The government has a majority

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of 12. It isn't just the government majority, it is the number of Labour

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MPs, between 60 and 100, a big gap but that would easily give him the

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mandate to do that. I am sure that there are a number of my colleagues,

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I haven't asked them, I am not sure of the absolute total but a lot of

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them will have thought just as carefully as I have about this, as

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has Hilary Benn and others who are convinced. Will you try to change

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their mind? What is the position now? Is it up to you and Jeremy

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Corbyn and others who do not agree with air strikes to go to your

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fellow MPs and make the case for them not to vote? No, we decided as

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a party, as a Shadow Cabinet, that they should be a free vote. So it is

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for members, based on their beliefs, to make a decision. Lunch Mac so the

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noes are not the party line? We don't have a party line. We've

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decided there is disagreement within the Labour Party as to whether we

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should be supporting this particular proposal. We need to differentiate

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between the notion of our getting involved militarily in Syria at all

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at some point, and the proposal that is on the table from the Prime

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Minister. I think it is a false dichotomy to say there is this

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binary choice. Suppose I am a vote in Oldham this week and trying to

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work out what Labour foreign policy is, are they anti-intervention or

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not -- if I am a voter? What would you tell me is your policy? That we

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are an extremely serious political party that has thoughtfully

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seriously about the most important choice that we could make. You have

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said seriously twice in one sentence, that means you are torn to

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pieces over this. Should recommit our military to engagement overseas

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with the inevitable loss of life that will follow? I haven't

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carefully at what David Cameron proposes. He says his objective is

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to defeat Isil. I agree. That should be had. You cannot say what your

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policy is on intervention because Jeremy Corbyn will say one thing and

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Hilary Benn, who should be closest to him on this issue, will say

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another. Straightforwardly, the most important thing is that we get the

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right decision for the country. But we analyse what is placed before us

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by the Prime Minister on its merits. And we come to a conclusion as

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individual MPs, if we had been able to come to agreement as a party that

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would have been better, I think. We clearly could not do that. If he's

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right and he got 75% of the reply saying that we don't want you to go

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to war in Syria, what was the point of that if he then a free vote?

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Jeremy did what he always said he would, reach out to party members

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and engage them in a more inclusive debate about policy. Nothing wrong

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with that. He could have got a result that was not in accordance

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with his views. I am not sure what my CLP would think if all members's

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views were tested. What I am certain about is, for me, when I have looked

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at the case but by the Prime Minister, I am not convinced that we

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will make Britain a safer place, not convinced that we were faced in the

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resolution... Laughing in the face of your supporters to an extent

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because, like him or loathe him, you understand that Jeremy Corbyn is a

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man of principle. We know he is in favour of stop the War. He doesn't

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like intervention, and yet he hasn't shown leadership, he's bottled it.

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We are all men and women of principle. On this issue he's

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bottled it. He could have said, I believe in this strongly, I lead the

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party, my supporters have told me that they backed me and I am taking

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that to Parliament. Why didn't he? Because he's seriously reflecting on

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the fact that there isn't an agreed position within the party. There are

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different views held sincerely by different members across the party

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and that is why the sensible thing for us to do is have a free vote. I

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come back to this substantive issue. That is what we ought to be baked

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tonight, it isn't about the Labour Party or Jeremy Corbyn and certainly

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not about individual MPs -- that's what we ought to debate. It is about

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if the right thing to do is to engage in limited bombing, mainly

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ten planes from the UK, adding to the two and half thousand, 3000

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strikes that have been administered by the Americans and the French. The

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question is, well that haste in the end of Isil and Assyrian resolution?

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I'm not convinced that is the case. - and a Syrian resolution. I think

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we should think much more deeply about long-term strategy is a

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western power in the Middle East. Thank you. That is exactly where we

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are taking the debate. David Cameron promised along and full debate in

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the House of Commons on Wednesday, he said it was the right thing to do

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and would be in the interests of the country to keep us safe. He was

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asked about that figure of 70,000 moderate troops on the ground in

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Syria, uncertain at this stage, he replied that they would be ready.

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Me. The Iraqi Army and the Kurdish peshmerga forces. The Syrian

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situation is more complicated but there are some ground troops in

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terms of the free Syrian Army and other troops that are able to take

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action against Isil. What happens now for the Government?

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The debate and the vote on veterans, people are talking in Government

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about anything, as you said, I'm hearing similar things, 60 to 100

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Labour dissidents. That gives David Cameron what he wanted, for it not

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to be a whipped thing, a party political division over this issue,

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and secondly a substantial majority potentially for strikes. The RAF I'm

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told will pretty much immediately probably that night start flying

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reconnaissance over targets. It's possible, what they call dynamic

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targeting, the J tack, the air controller, may give them a target

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that Knight and they may well start. Even if they don't it is only likely

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to be a day or two before they hit targets in Syria. So they can get

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ready that quickly can they? They are already flying against targets

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in Iraq and they can do that. Hearing your early discussion, this

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perception that the UK can't bring that many aircraft to the fight.

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They are determined to increase the number. There's pretty limited

:15:30.:15:34.

leeway in the RAF on that, and what I've been hearing is that the

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current 8 tornadoes in Akrotiri will be supplemented. Of course they

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can't just move these eight planes around between Iraq and Syria.

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People will say you are shifting the same deck chairs on the deck. They

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are going to send two more Tornadoes and six Typhoon aircraft. They will

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have relatively quickly in Akrotiri up to 16 jets to carry out air

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strikes against IS targets in those countries. They are trying to

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increase the level of apprenticeship military activity. When you factor

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in as well defensive UK airspace, that's pretty much it. That's pretty

:16:13.:16:17.

much the whole Royal Air Force committed. Mark, thank you.

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Joining me now, Tony Blair's former chief of staff, Jonathan Powell,

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who's written extensively on the question

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His latest book is Talking to Terrorists.

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Nice of you to come in. When you listened to Mark laying it out there

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in stark terms, it feel it is like the country is being readied for war

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and I guess you will say that this is the other equation of what Iraq

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has started I don't think there can be a logical idea about bombing

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Iraq... But you recognise this is a big step, this needed to be a

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convincing argument for all the reasons we understand about it not

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being an invitation of a sovereign territory? I don't think this is the

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start of a big war. I don't think it is seen as such a big step. It is

:17:09.:17:14.

doing what Isil do, which is not regarding the border. There are

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bigger questions that come later, as bombing is necessary but in the

:17:18.:17:21.

sufficient, it is necessary to help the Kurds for example to hang on to

:17:22.:17:26.

Kobane in Syria and to capture Sinjar. Do you think David Cameron

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should have said, I'm pretty sure of this, we are doing it already? He

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should have had a vote and it looks like he is able to win it now.

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Bombing is sufficient, is not sufficient, it is necessary but

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won't some of the problem. If our aim is to degrade and destroy Isil

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we are going to have to do a lot more than simply bomb them. 70,000,

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we are thinking of that now as the 45 minute figure. Does I ring true

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from what you know of these troops? I think there are 70,000 fighters in

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Syria but at the moment they are fighting Assad and they don't have

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any intention of fighting Daesh or Isil. You can't leave it to the Shia

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militias from Baghdad, so who is going to do this fighting? That's

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the question that needs to be answered. And it is not going to

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make us safer is it? You can't realistically that Britain at home

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becomes a safer country? It does if we deal with Isil. Just as they were

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this Paris, you can't ignore it. 9/11 came out of Afghanistan. You

:18:37.:18:40.

can't deal with them here, you have to deal with them at the root. It

:18:41.:18:45.

seems a simple equation there, a simple question for you but it's not

:18:46.:18:48.

one for the Labour Party at the moment. Do you think part of this

:18:49.:18:54.

self flagellation, a large part, is precisely because of the Iraq war?

:18:55.:18:57.

Obviously there's a hangover from the Iraq war, just as there there

:18:58.:19:03.

was before from previous war. Black Hawk Down in some Aaliyah stopped

:19:04.:19:09.

people intervening in Kosovo. When you say rational, people will say in

:19:10.:19:14.

foreign policy terms that was the worst decision any leader has made

:19:15.:19:20.

since Suez? You can say that if you want, but you don't want to be hung

:19:21.:19:24.

over by the last decision. You don't want to lash out in the heat of

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emotion. You want to make a cool, rational decision. I guess what I'm

:19:30.:19:32.

asking, is it right that we have questioning leaders now? Do you

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admire Mr Corbyn for saying hang on everyone let's make sure that we

:19:38.:19:40.

know what we are going into? Or do you see a Labour Party in pieces? It

:19:41.:19:44.

is absolutely right that everyone should ask questions. We need a

:19:45.:19:47.

serious military strategy and political strategy. As I say,

:19:48.:19:51.

bombing makes sense but you need to have ground forces if you are going

:19:52.:19:56.

take territory. Are there ground forces? I don't know whose ground

:19:57.:20:01.

forces they are going to be. You can't do it without ground forces.

:20:02.:20:04.

And you need a political strategy dealing with the bereavances of the

:20:05.:20:08.

Sunnis, who've been disenfranchised in Iraq and Syria. And talking to

:20:09.:20:13.

them just as we talk to the IRA, the PLO and others in the past. Where do

:20:14.:20:17.

you think ground forces need to come from? You cannot see a UK Prime

:20:18.:20:22.

Minister now putting in British ground troops, can you? That's what

:20:23.:20:26.

people are going to have to think about. This is a coalition, not just

:20:27.:20:33.

Britain. We are going to have to put western forces in, but it is a

:20:34.:20:37.

coalition, not something that Britain can decide itself. And you

:20:38.:20:41.

believe Britain needs to communicate with terrorists and get that

:20:42.:20:45.

dialogue going. Is Isis on the cards for that? I would have thought so.

:20:46.:20:50.

Every time we meet a new terrorist group, we say we'll never to them

:20:51.:20:59.

and defeat them... Even an apocalyptic death cult?

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Unfortunately they know they they can get our attention by killing

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people in horrific ways. Thank you. I know you are going to stay with

:21:08.:21:09.

us. So has the lead up to what is

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increasingly looking like a move to military action been overshadowed

:21:15.:21:18.

by party political spilts? Tonight, Jeremy Corbyn claimed

:21:19.:21:20.

the debate was running away from David Cameron

:21:21.:21:22.

and his case was falling apart. Rachel Sylvester of the Times,

:21:23.:21:24.

and Clive Lewis MP and Director of Momentum - the Campaign group

:21:25.:21:27.

that supports Jeremy Corbyn - are Just for the record I advise some of

:21:28.:21:38.

the people who work for them. Director is too posh a title I'm not

:21:39.:21:43.

a chair. For the record, keep it straight.

:21:44.:21:46.

Rachel - talk us through what Downing Street

:21:47.:21:48.

Has the battle run away with David Cameron? I think they'll be feeling

:21:49.:21:58.

rerelieved. They said they wouldn't hold a vote unless they were pretty

:21:59.:22:04.

sure of winning it. The vote has gone ahead and that David Cameron

:22:05.:22:09.

has had to concede a free vote, it makes it much more likely that air

:22:10.:22:13.

strikes will go ahead. This was one issue on which the Labour

:22:14.:22:18.

opposition, which has been pretty powerless since the election had

:22:19.:22:22.

some power. They had the ability to determine the result in Parliament.

:22:23.:22:24.

What's happened today is significant. But they've given that

:22:25.:22:28.

power away. Isn't that frustrating for the grass roots? I think it is a

:22:29.:22:32.

matter of conscience. I think when you listen to the so-called grass

:22:33.:22:38.

roots, they would have seen that many MPs have agonised over this and

:22:39.:22:42.

thought over it. Ny MPs have agonised over this and thought over

:22:43.:22:45.

it. I look back - I wasn't there obviously, I look back to the Iraq

:22:46.:22:51.

war where we were whipped and the Libya where we were whipped and they

:22:52.:22:56.

didn't end well. This gives MPs the chance to analyse and come to a

:22:57.:23:00.

conclusion how we are going to vote. I know we laugh at the term new

:23:01.:23:04.

politics, but I think we are approaching it not a more mature way

:23:05.:23:08.

and I think many people out there in the country would like to see us

:23:09.:23:12.

acting in that way. Is that something you would say, we don't

:23:13.:23:17.

need leadership per se, we like new politics and like something not

:23:18.:23:22.

whipped like Iraq? There'll be a bunch of people in the country

:23:23.:23:31.

disenfranchised unless very have an opposition that's peeking for them.

:23:32.:23:35.

And if you have the Foreign Secretary and the leader in

:23:36.:23:40.

different positions how are the public to know if air strikes would

:23:41.:23:45.

go ahead. They are not behaving like a credible alternative Government. I

:23:46.:23:51.

was looking at the newspapers as I came in and how much was devoted to

:23:52.:23:57.

the internal machinations. I've been asked on five programmes to talk

:23:58.:24:03.

about Syria, and on each one I have ended up talking about the Labour

:24:04.:24:05.

Party. I understand it is an interesting concept. On Wednesday

:24:06.:24:10.

when we know what the vote is we'll be in a position where we can talk

:24:11.:24:15.

directly about Syria instead of hypothesising. What I would like to

:24:16.:24:20.

see and what the media should be doing, we should be questioning

:24:21.:24:23.

David Cameron. We are on the brink, potentially, of sending an extra six

:24:24.:24:28.

planes, 14 planes into Syria, to bomb. As we speak now, if that vote

:24:29.:24:34.

goes through, there'll be women and children, potentially, who will be

:24:35.:24:37.

dying because of that decision. That's not something as an MP I feel

:24:38.:24:40.

particularly happy being whipped on. It is a matter of conscience. For

:24:41.:24:44.

that reason, if that alone, wouldn't it have been better to see a very

:24:45.:24:49.

strong message to went right through the party saying we are anti-this

:24:50.:24:52.

and we are now going to be the party that holds David Cameron to account?

:24:53.:24:57.

You can't be that party any more. I think most people know, we've all

:24:58.:25:00.

said it is a matter of conscience. Before it was mentioned about how we

:25:01.:25:05.

still have a so-called hang-up. The echoes of Iraq echo through our

:25:06.:25:09.

party. Many MPs are affected by that. They listen to that. It is

:25:10.:25:15.

right and proper. Rachel, is this sustainable? Do you think this is

:25:16.:25:19.

the new politics, this is how opposition is working now, this is a

:25:20.:25:22.

pretty important decision. Does it seem to be a position they can hold

:25:23.:25:27.

on to? What isn't sustainable is the fact you've got a huge chunk of the

:25:28.:25:31.

parliamentary Labour Party at odds with their leader. I think this

:25:32.:25:34.

isn't just to do with Syria. It is to do with the fact that the MPs

:25:35.:25:38.

feel they have a mandate from their constituents and the leader feels he

:25:39.:25:43.

has a mandate from his members. There's a total clash of not just

:25:44.:25:48.

ideaologists but the principle obvious politics. The MPs wants to

:25:49.:25:51.

win the election and they want to adopt policies which reach out to

:25:52.:25:56.

people beyond the Labour tribe. What they feel the Corbynistas want to

:25:57.:26:08.

appeal within the tribe... As an MP yes I want to win election 2020 but

:26:09.:26:13.

I want to make the right cities when it come tolls potentially send our

:26:14.:26:19.

forces into warfare, potentially putting themselves at risk and kill

:26:20.:26:23.

women and children. What does momentum do? Does it lobby the MPs

:26:24.:26:27.

had, take the views of supporters to MPs and try and hold them to a "no"

:26:28.:26:33.

vote? I think if you look at what Momentum does, it is not one central

:26:34.:26:37.

organisation which comes out with a line. It is a grass roots

:26:38.:26:42.

organisation made up of thousands of Labour Party members. I think as an

:26:43.:26:49.

MP I expect to be lobbied by constituents, by party members,

:26:50.:26:55.

members of Momentum, people from Progress and the Fabians, I'm an MP.

:26:56.:26:59.

What I don't expect is abuse. I think what Jeremy Corbyn has said,

:27:00.:27:02.

he's given a free vote. Respect that. Is this the Labour Party that

:27:03.:27:07.

you recognise? No, I think there's a problem in this country when we

:27:08.:27:10.

don't have a strong opposition. As long as we are talking about

:27:11.:27:13.

ourselves as the party instead of the issues, and the problem Clive

:27:14.:27:17.

talks about is what we are going to have. Whose fault is that It is not

:27:18.:27:23.

sustainable for a long period of time. I don't see how you can keep

:27:24.:27:28.

this together. It is a clash of membership who voted for him and MPs

:27:29.:27:34.

who never accepted that. Thank you all very much indeed.

:27:35.:27:37.

Recent history is littered with the places - Copenhagen, Lima,

:27:38.:27:39.

Bali - that gave their names to the mission of stalling climate

:27:40.:27:42.

Kyoto was the last - some would say limited success -

:27:43.:27:46.

So to say there's a lot riding on Paris this week -

:27:47.:27:50.

after all the trauma the city has been through - is no exaggeration.

:27:51.:27:53.

Today world leaders from more than 150 countries descended on Cop21 -

:27:54.:27:56.

the Climate change summit whose mission is to pull things back

:27:57.:27:59.

One man who knows the planet better than most is

:28:00.:28:04.

He's been at the forefront of the Apollo program - a mission to

:28:05.:28:08.

speed up the technology needed for renewable - solar - energy - to make

:28:09.:28:11.

I talked to him this afternoon from Paris.

:28:12.:28:14.

I think the statement made by President Obama just now has really

:28:15.:28:20.

It doesn't go quite as far as some of us might wish,

:28:21.:28:26.

but it is certainly a major step down the road.

:28:27.:28:28.

Do you agree with India's Prime Minister Modi, who has asked

:28:29.:28:32.

for climate justice, that curious phrase, but he's basically saying

:28:33.:28:36.

that those countries that have developed, that have become powerful

:28:37.:28:41.

on the back of the use of fossil fuels should now give more?

:28:42.:28:45.

Yes, but President Obama's statement, and certainly the global

:28:46.:28:49.

Apollo programme, which I'm hoping to support, provides exactly that.

:28:50.:28:53.

What we're trying to do is to get the nations together to do

:28:54.:28:59.

the necessary research to get the production, transmission and storage

:29:00.:29:04.

of energy from renewable resources cheaper than coal so that those

:29:05.:29:08.

nations which may be developed or less developed that are getting

:29:09.:29:11.

their material from coal will now decide to move to

:29:12.:29:16.

a different source of energy which will be cheaper than the coal on

:29:17.:29:19.

You would say therefore there is no shortage of energy on earth?

:29:20.:29:30.

There is no shortage of energy from the Sun.

:29:31.:29:32.

If we could harness a one 5,000th part of

:29:33.:29:35.

the energy that the Sun sprays upon the earth every 24 hours, we could

:29:36.:29:40.

provide all the energy requirements of the entire human race.

:29:41.:29:43.

We are suggesting you would get not even that much,

:29:44.:29:49.

but that's what we are suggesting that we should get straight from

:29:50.:29:52.

Why do you think, given everything that science has

:29:53.:29:57.

Because it is easier to burn a piece of coal.

:29:58.:30:03.

We've solved the major ones of getting the energy

:30:04.:30:08.

What we haven't solved so far is getting it cheaper.

:30:09.:30:12.

That's what we need to do, so that's cheaper than coal.

:30:13.:30:16.

At the moment anybody can go out and dig a piece of coal and light

:30:17.:30:19.

But we can't afford to do that any more.

:30:20.:30:23.

John Kerry made that statement and said whatever happens wouldn't

:30:24.:30:25.

I believe that when you look at Obama's statement the will is there

:30:26.:30:37.

You can write all sorts of words on paper, but in the end if it's good

:30:38.:30:44.

people of good heart and goodwill, that's what get things done.

:30:45.:30:47.

So it doesn't matter if it won't have a legal status?

:30:48.:30:52.

Of course it would be nice if we had a legal status, but we hope

:30:53.:30:57.

that people will abide by these sentiments, which have been stated

:30:58.:31:05.

very clearly by the President and which I believe are being stated

:31:06.:31:08.

What would make you punch the air at the end of this summit and say yes,

:31:09.:31:14.

What are the words you want to hear from whom?

:31:15.:31:17.

If Obama had added a target date and actually also agreed a road map, a

:31:18.:31:25.

committee that was going to oversee worldwide scientific research to

:31:26.:31:30.

identify the problems in the chain and to sort out who's going to deal

:31:31.:31:34.

with them, that would have been the cherry on the cake.

:31:35.:31:37.

Sir David, thank you very much indeed.

:31:38.:31:39.

The Conservative Party bullying scandal that forced former

:31:40.:31:48.

chairman Grant Shapps to quit his ministerial post over the weekend

:31:49.:31:51.

The party has announced that a law firm will run their investigation

:31:52.:31:55.

There had been claims that their own internal inquiry, launched

:31:56.:31:58.

after a series of complaints were made about former aide Mark Clarke,

:31:59.:32:01.

Mark Clarke, who has already been expelled from the Conservative Party

:32:02.:32:05.

for life, categorically denies a string of bullying and blackmail

:32:06.:32:07.

Those calling for a more independent inquiry included Ray Johnson -

:32:08.:32:14.

he's the father of Elliott Johnson who killed himself after previously

:32:15.:32:16.

Well, James Clayton, who's been following this story

:32:17.:32:20.

This is quite a momentous day for the Conservative Party. Until last

:32:21.:32:34.

week, Edward Legard was heading this inquiry. He is a barrister and

:32:35.:32:42.

perhaps more importantly a former Conservative Party candidate. A lot

:32:43.:32:47.

of MPs I've spoken to have said, how can you have an independent inquiry

:32:48.:32:52.

when it is run by a conservative. That was not a concern David Cameron

:32:53.:32:58.

shared. This is a B Hind me from David Cameron to Ray Johnson, the

:32:59.:33:02.

father of Elliott Johnson. -- this is a letter, behind me. In the T he

:33:03.:33:10.

supports the inquiry and says that they have under way an internal

:33:11.:33:13.

investigation with a disciplinary panel that will be headed by Edward

:33:14.:33:19.

Legard. That entire inquiry has today been given to Clifford Chance.

:33:20.:33:28.

What has changed? A lot of pressure on Grant Shapps and on Lord

:33:29.:33:33.

Feldman, the current chairman. Grant Shapps resigned at the weekend, as

:33:34.:33:37.

we know, this was meant to alleviate some of the pressure on Lord

:33:38.:33:41.

Feldman. It has almost done the opposite. I have spoken to number

:33:42.:33:49.

ten Downing St and they are in full Operation Save Lord Feldman mode.

:33:50.:33:53.

They say that Lord Feldman did not know who Mark Clarke was and didn't

:33:54.:33:58.

know of any bullying before 2015. They say that this independent

:33:59.:34:02.

inquiry is a result of people like Ray Johnson who had called for it.

:34:03.:34:06.

There is another strategy at play here. It's this. Lord Feldman is

:34:07.:34:11.

very close friend of David Cameron's and the Tory party has

:34:12.:34:14.

decided they are not going to let this one go. They are to allow Grant

:34:15.:34:19.

Shapps to leave because he wasn't exactly flavour of the month and

:34:20.:34:24.

they are happy to give ground on and on the inquiry but they don't want

:34:25.:34:28.

Lord Feldman to go. We will have to see in the next couple of weeks if

:34:29.:34:33.

that strategy works. Mark Clarke denies all allegations. Yes Mackie

:34:34.:34:41.

has denied all allegations of bullying. Thank you, James.

:34:42.:34:44.

Fashion is territory into which Newsnight rarely forays.

:34:45.:34:46.

But when it does, it does it in style.

:34:47.:34:48.

The former lover of the late Yves Saint Laurent has decided to

:34:49.:34:51.

sell the most priceless library in private hands - estimated to be

:34:52.:34:54.

They're all to go under the hammer at Sotheby's in Paris,

:34:55.:34:57.

Pierre Berge, once the manager of the house of Yves Saint Laurent,

:34:58.:35:01.

impossibly rare books and manuscripts by Shakespeare,

:35:02.:35:04.

Dante, Flaubert, the Marquis de Sade and many others.

:35:05.:35:06.

It was all too much for Stephen Smith.

:35:07.:35:09.

He dressed the most beautiful women in the world.

:35:10.:35:19.

And that bought him the most priceless library in the world.

:35:20.:35:24.

Including a volume of St Augustine's Confessions from 1470.

:35:25.:35:34.

What was his famous saying, "Lord, please give me celibacy,

:35:35.:35:36.

Not yet, that is the important thing, not yet.

:35:37.:35:41.

Pierre Berge was the unflappable maitre d'

:35:42.:35:48.

He would sketch all the time, and I was a manager.

:35:49.:36:07.

And nobody came to the field of the other.

:36:08.:36:12.

You didn't interfere with each other's work?

:36:13.:36:14.

Did you ever have to say, come on, Yves, I need those drawings

:36:15.:36:19.

For me I think the fashion designer or painter or writer, they have to

:36:20.:36:32.

You and Yves Saint Laurent collected art and houses, but this was your

:36:33.:36:48.

Yves was born with a nervous breakdown.

:36:49.:37:02.

He was born with a nervous breakdown?

:37:03.:37:06.

He was born with a nervous breakdown.

:37:07.:37:09.

It's a joke, but it's not really a joke.

:37:10.:37:16.

But you know, there are fashion designers who are

:37:17.:37:21.

unhappy and fashion designers who are very happy.

:37:22.:37:26.

Fashion is not an art, but fashion needs an artist to exist.

:37:27.:37:40.

It's a strange combination, but I suppose you understand it.

:37:41.:37:42.

Was Yves Saint Laurent an artist in that sense?

:37:43.:37:46.

Yves Saint Laurent absolutely was an artist.

:37:47.:37:51.

According to Berge, the House of Yves Saint Laurent took fashion

:37:52.:37:57.

But now he says the industry has lost a sense

:37:58.:38:01.

For me the fashion is to serve the woman, and not the woman to

:38:02.:38:13.

You can see the wrong way all the time today.

:38:14.:38:33.

Yves wrote one day, if fashion is only for rich women, it is very sad.

:38:34.:38:37.

What do you make of people like our own dear Victoria Beckham and Kate

:38:38.:38:40.

I send my best wishes, but fashion, believe me, is a very hard job.

:38:41.:39:04.

It's not a woman's distraction, like to collect horses or dogs.

:39:05.:39:09.

And there's your phone, intruding on your time.

:39:10.:39:18.

For a man from the rag trade, Berge is very well connected,

:39:19.:39:23.

Why not, we can call him later to see what he's doing.

:39:24.:39:32.

Do you have his number in your phone?

:39:33.:39:34.

We asked Monsieur Berge to run his tape measure over the British

:39:35.:39:40.

Do you like his look, what do you think?

:39:41.:39:51.

What I don't like with your Prime Minister,

:39:52.:40:03.

is the distance he keeps with Europe.

:40:04.:40:05.

Now, I don't know if you've come across this gentleman yet.

:40:06.:40:09.

He seems a little bit full of dreams.

:40:10.:40:19.

It is necessary to give dreams to people.

:40:20.:40:26.

I don't think Mr Corbyn has a great carriere of mannequin.

:40:27.:40:44.

That is all we have time fors we will be back tomorrow. Good night

:40:45.:41:07.

from all of us.

:41:08.:41:11.

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