Browse content similar to 04/04/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tax avoidance, corruption and money laundering of epic proportions... | :00:00. | :00:08. | |
As the world wakes up to the enormity of the revelations | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
in the Panama Papers, we'll ask why the world has failed | :00:13. | :00:14. | |
What this confirms is that if you're in a position, | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
in an official position, a political position, | :00:21. | :00:23. | |
which allows you to earn a bit of gravy on the side | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
through your position of influence, then it's very tempting to do so. | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
Could there ever be a justification for this kind of behaviour? | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
Also tonight: The Brits living in the EU. | :00:36. | :00:46. | |
What do the ex-pats in Spain make of a possible Brexit? | :00:47. | :00:48. | |
Because, whether it's right or wrong, I still | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
believe that the UK is the best place in the world. | :00:54. | :00:55. | |
And we talk to best selling American author Jessica Knoll, | :00:56. | :01:01. | |
who has revealed - after a year of denials - | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
that her thriller, Luckiest Girl Alive, | :01:05. | :01:06. | |
about a teenager who has gang raped by her classmates, | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
Money laundering, sanctions dodging and tax avoidance, | :01:10. | :01:23. | |
not, you would automatically think, the behaviour of heads of state... | :01:24. | :01:26. | |
The leak of 11 million documents from the Panamanian law firm | :01:27. | :01:33. | |
Mossack Fonseca show that the company, who has never been | :01:34. | :01:36. | |
charged with criminal wrongdoing, has helped some current | :01:37. | :01:38. | |
or former heads of state, including Ukraine's President, | :01:39. | :01:46. | |
and Iceland's Prime Minister and individuals linked to leaders | :01:47. | :01:48. | |
such as Vladimir Putin and China's President Xi Jinping, | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
find tax havens to hide their wealth. | :01:52. | :01:52. | |
Simon Cox has been reporting on the story and joins me now. | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
There was a welter of information last night and today about huge | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
amounts of money being hidden away. What has happened since? It is one | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
of those amazing stories where each hour there is a new revelation. I | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
suppose one of the most significant today was about the relatives of | :02:09. | :02:15. | |
Chinese leadership who had relations with Mossack Fonseca. Embarrassing | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
for them because they made a big crackdown on corruption. And also | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
Fifa, their lawyer, connected to their ethics committee, who has been | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
helping these offshore companies. It is interesting seeing the numbers | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
they are coming up with. Germany, 1000 people in the documents, | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
Australia, 800 people in the documents. And HMRC saying they | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
would like to get their hands on and see what is in those 11 million | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
documents. So much more presumably still to come out. Now we will look | :02:47. | :02:53. | |
it sanctions busting, what is happening tomorrow? We are talking | :02:54. | :02:56. | |
about tax evasion, money-laundering, but what we have looked at is | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
individuals and companies subject to sanctions who were clients of | :03:02. | :03:08. | |
Mossack Fonseca. We looked at Syria, a really interesting tale about | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
North Korea involving a bank and a British banker. Sanctions busting | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
for North Korea? There was a company in North Korea and they were subject | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
to sanctions and a British banker was involved in that company. A | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
serious sanction, but it ended up it was sanctioned because it was linked | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
to a bank providing funding for North Korea's nuclear weapons | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
programme. Really serious. Thank you very much, Simon. | :03:36. | :03:36. | |
Politicians of all stripes across Europe and the US have long | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
pledged to crack down on tax havens - but the Panama Papers show that | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
Will these latest revelations finally provide the impetus | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
Here's our Diplomatic Editor Mark Urban. | :03:47. | :03:56. | |
One law firm, so many destinations, from the Alps to the Caribbean, | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
places where offshore companies are used to hide wealth on a vast scale. | :04:04. | :04:11. | |
And Panama law firm, Mossack Fonseca, is just a part of that. Yet | :04:12. | :04:19. | |
it's hacked files show 143 some time politicians and officials from | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
around the world among its clients. What chance then the tax haven | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
reformer, when so many leaders are at it? I think the scale is | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
enormous. I think what this confirms is if you are in a position, an | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
official position, a political position, which allows you to earn a | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
bit of gravy on the side through your position of influence, then it | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
is very tempting to do so. Many remember the G8 Summit almost three | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
years ago, only for this frosty Obama, Putin encounter. Several of | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
the Russian President's close friends emerge in the Panama Papers, | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
yet he and the other members signed up to the host agenda on the fight | :05:02. | :05:08. | |
against offshore tax dodging. At the G8 I will push the international | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
agreements to fight the scourge of tax evasion and aggressive tax | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
avoidance. That means automatic exchange of information between our | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
tax authorities, so those who want to evade taxes have nowhere to hide. | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
On today's evidence there are all too many places to hide, and the | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
UK's record of prosecuting successfully since 2010 just 11 | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
cases of offshore tax evasion is hardly impressive. We as a committee | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
feel there should be more prosecutions to be a deterrent to | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
people, to prove to the good taxpayer and the taxpayer and think | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
they will get away with it, that if you are evade tax you will be | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
prosecuted on possibly go to prison and if you aggressively avoid it, | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
you will be caught. The American pressure group researches offshore | :05:58. | :06:00. | |
financial activity and its index puts Switzerland top. The Cayman | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
Islands coming fifth, with Panama at 13th, just ahead of the UK. But if | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
you add the Cayman Islands and other overseas Territories to the British | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
figure, it would come top. The Prime Minister has talked the talk and he | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
has to prove he will walk the walk. He has a summit coming up in May | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
looking at corruption. An ideal opportunity for him to take the | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
issue on and try to tackle international tax havens with other | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
countries. Also, the British government could go further, the tax | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
transparency very easily by insisting companies publish their | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
information in their companies house returns. From Panama to the Cayman | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
Islands, allowing foreign companies to base themselves somewhere without | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
tying them up with too much regulation has long been a way of | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
generating revenue. But now the US is using its financial clout to | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
impose foreign account compliance rural is on many smaller countries. | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
Over the last few years the Americans have taken a number of | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
steps, including the imposition of a law that requires offshore banks to | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
report to the American authorities what money they are holding for US | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
citizens, and they have also taken action against Fifa. I think the | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
Americans are taking this seriously and if we want to be successful in | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
making offshore havens transparent, we need the Americans to be fully | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
committed. People in the offshore business have told us America's new | :07:32. | :07:33. | |
disclosure rules have already had a big effect on their trade. Yet | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
America will not reciprocally disposed to many foreign governments | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
details of deposits in the USA, making it a more destination for | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
money some people may wish to hide. And there is the dilemma, for | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
governments like the US or the UK... Do they really want to crack down, | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
or do they want to welcome all sorts of new foreign investors with tax | :08:01. | :08:07. | |
breaks and, indeed, investor visas? Far from the Caribbean demonstrators | :08:08. | :08:17. | |
gathered in Iceland to demand the resignation of their Premier. | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
Today's allegations produced an immediate effect, but hardly any in | :08:23. | :08:23. | |
China or Russia. Mark Urban. I'm joined now in the studio | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
by Vince Cable the former Business Secretary from Paris, | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
Grace Perez-Navarro from the OECD and in Washington DC, Dan Mitchell, | :08:31. | :08:32. | |
economist at the Cato Institute. Good evening to you all. First, | :08:33. | :08:42. | |
Vince Cable, did you have any idea of the extent of the corruption of | :08:43. | :08:50. | |
sanctions busting until you saw the Panama Papers? Not the specifics but | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
we knew there was large-scale tax avoidance and tax evasion going on. | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
The reason why at the summit, which you described a few minutes ago, | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
that the Prime Minister pushed for an open register of ownership, which | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
we implemented, I introduced at the end of the last government, was | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
precisely to make ownership transparent. The problem with that | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
initiative is the Prime Minister in fighting these tax havens to come to | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
London, the British dependencies, require them to have a serious | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
similar register which would have made it impossible to hide these | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
kind of things. What happened is these little places like the Virgin | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
Islands told the British government to take a running jump. Absolutely | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
no control? 50% British dependencies and there is nothing you can do? We | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
can and we should do something about it. The mechanism that is open is to | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
impose direct rule, which we did with the Turks. But what about AIDS? | :09:49. | :09:56. | |
The richer ones to get any aid but if we do, we should be using it. -- | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
what about aid question mark is cracking down on corruption, making | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
them have a full, open and transparent register would be one | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
way of seeing through all this Merc. Would you favour that? Yes. On all | :10:11. | :10:22. | |
the dependencies? Where the abuses are on that scale. The Virgin | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
Islands at the top of the list. Can we go back to your time in power. | :10:27. | :10:33. | |
Since 2010, as you heard in that report, only 11 UK prosecutions were | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
brought for tax evasion on your watch. Surely that is a derisory | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
amount. Yes, I will accept that criticism. I think what happened | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
under this government, the coalition, the previous Labour | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
government, is the resources available to HMRC, and this is a | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
resource intensive business, well cut. Did you protest at the time? We | :10:54. | :11:00. | |
did have arguments about priorities. We did other things, in choosing the | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
anti-avoidance for all, requiring banks not to offer facilitation... | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
Do you think there is expertise in the HMRC to deal with this at this | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
level? This is rather complicated stuff and it does require a lot of | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
resource and special people. If we are taking it seriously, there has | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
to be proper resource. And there hasn't been for years. The OECD have | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
come up with this idea of various reforms. But with these reforms, | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
stop and the Russian oligarchs, stop the people in the Chinese bureau, | :11:35. | :11:41. | |
stop the possibility Putin's needs have been sorting money away... Well | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
anything you propose a fact that level of change? Well, I think here | :11:46. | :11:51. | |
at the OECD what we have been trying to do is get all countries to | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
improve their legal frameworks and level of cooperation they have | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
between each other, in terms of sharing information, banking | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
information, ownership information and so on. It's been a very | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
difficult job but we have made great progress on global Forum on | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
transparency, which now has 132 members. You might have heard our | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
reporter saying earlier, the idea that Chinese politburo is involved | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
is embarrassing for the Chinese because they have tried to crack | :12:27. | :12:32. | |
down on this, which is a nonsense now, because if it goes right to the | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
top, nothing you can do will stop that? I think that is quite | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
pessimistic view, because I think the structures we have put in place | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
for cooperation between has resulted in real change. There have been over | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
800 legislative changes undertaken in different countries. There have | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
been a number of exchanges of information between countries, and | :12:57. | :13:03. | |
we have already, through voluntary disclosure programmes, in a board | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
governments to collect $48 billion that they would not have otherwise | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
collected without the threat of these initiatives. Dan Mitchell, | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
what possible benign reason could there be for individuals and | :13:18. | :13:25. | |
companies moving their money around, hiding money, creating shell | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
companies and so forth to avoid tax? I think the reason we see a lot of | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
this is international business requires international structures. | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
If you are a wealthy investor, entrepreneur, business owner, you | :13:39. | :13:41. | |
are doing cross-border activity, you want a structure in a tax neutral | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
environment. So this notion there is something bad about having a company | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
is ridiculous. It is like saying, we shouldn't allow cars to be sold | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
because some people use them as getaway vehicles for bank robberies. | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
I think if we want more global trade a more global investment, we | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
shouldn't have governments trying to make international business Morkel | :14:04. | :14:06. | |
freaky. If there are some bad guys, just like there are bad guys who'd | :14:07. | :14:12. | |
use motors as getaway vehicles, by all means punish them. But don't let | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
international bureaucracies like the OECD, the greatest tax dodge of all, | :14:18. | :14:23. | |
they go around the world telling people to raise taxes. We should | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
focus on low and simple tax rate, which makes it easy to comply, keep | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
government more streamlined and let international business flow. Let's | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
put this back to the OECD. A tax-free salary first of all factor | :14:38. | :14:43. | |
please respond to Dan Mitchell. Well, my response is we fully | :14:44. | :14:49. | |
support the idea of a low rate and broad-based tax, the problem is we | :14:50. | :14:52. | |
need to get everyone paying those taxes. Right now what we have is a | :14:53. | :14:59. | |
system where taxpayers can operate in a world without borders but tax | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
authorities are restricted by their national boundaries, so they need a | :15:04. | :15:06. | |
means by which they can work together, in order to be able to | :15:07. | :15:13. | |
tackle these tax crimes, even Asian and fraught, that's what we're | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
talking about. We are not talking about legitimate business. -- | :15:17. | :15:23. | |
invasion and fraud. If you have world leaders involved in this you | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
will never clear it up? You can at least make it transparent and let | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
the world see what's going on. This is where somebody has done a great | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
public service by exposing to the public... Maybe you cannot stop bad | :15:36. | :15:38. | |
behaviour on the other side of the world but you can show we know | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
what's going on. Let's turn to look at present problem in the UK and | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
that is Tata Steel and the future of Port Talbot. You said one of the | :15:49. | :15:55. | |
deterrents to attracting a buyer is the pension pot. Sajid Javid talks | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
about the Treasury perhaps taking over the pension pot. We had that is | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
contrary to all is an EU state aid would it be out of the question? I | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
don't think that is true. I was in government and we applied to the | :16:09. | :16:11. | |
European Commission for state aid approval to take off the pension | :16:12. | :16:12. | |
fund of the Royal Mail. The problem with is that it is | :16:13. | :16:24. | |
losing a million a day, it is a different situation. -- the problem | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
with Tata. It is not like Royal Mail in that way. I'm not a lawyer, but | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
if I was Secretary of State at the moment, I would be expiring every | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
opportunity to get that agreed. If you have a steel business in Wales | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
and a steel business in Germany, the energy costs in Germany are half of | :16:44. | :16:46. | |
what they were in the United Kingdom, do you think that green | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
elegy problems are to blame? The reason why this was introduced, the | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
biggest element, tax reasons and tax revenue rather than green. -- green | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
energy problems. We were well aware of this, there was an environmental | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
element in it, we would try to get to the root of the energy cost | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
differentials, we spent years, we brought in a compensation scheme, we | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
got the green value commission, for reasons I do not understand the | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
Treasury have been reluctant to pay cut out, steel companies, like in | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
South Wales, they say they do not have any of the money but it has | :17:20. | :17:22. | |
been approved, that should be paid. Thank you very much. | :17:23. | :17:29. | |
The prominent Scottish Asian Human Right's lawyer who was a leader | :17:30. | :17:32. | |
of the Stop The War coalition, Aamer Anwar, has revealed | :17:33. | :17:34. | |
that he has received death threats after convening and chairing | :17:35. | :17:36. | |
an ecumenical meeting after the killing of a Scottish Asian | :17:37. | :17:39. | |
shopkeeper Asad Shah, who was stabbed 30 times | :17:40. | :17:41. | |
after posted an Easter greeting message to his | :17:42. | :17:43. | |
VOICEOVER: It was a killing that rocked a community. | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
Asad Shah, a Glasgow shopkeeper, filmed here in his shop in August, | :17:49. | :17:51. | |
was found stabbed to death in a nearby street on 24th March. | :17:52. | :17:54. | |
Hours earlier he'd posted a message on Facebook wishing the local | :17:55. | :17:56. | |
Christian community a happy Easter, and the police | :17:57. | :17:58. | |
are treating his murder as religiously motivated. | :17:59. | :18:00. | |
In response, prominent local human rights lawyer Aamer Anwar brought | :18:01. | :18:02. | |
Glasgow's religious leaders together in a call for tolerance and harmony. | :18:03. | :18:10. | |
We do not want to import sectarian violence that has caused so much | :18:11. | :18:19. | |
division and so much bloodshed in Pakistan to our communities and | :18:20. | :18:20. | |
streets. But what was a plea | :18:21. | :18:22. | |
for peace, has angered some. Mr Anwar has received angry | :18:23. | :18:24. | |
messages on social media. After handling many controversial | :18:25. | :18:26. | |
cases, he says he's used to that. But now, he faces something far | :18:27. | :18:29. | |
graver, more direct threats that | :18:30. | :18:31. | |
have sparked a police investigation and led Mr Anwar | :18:32. | :18:34. | |
to fear for his life. Mr Anwar says he is now concerned | :18:35. | :18:41. | |
about escalating factional hatred STUDIO: Aamer Anwar is with us | :18:42. | :18:43. | |
in our Glasgow studio. Aamer, because there's an ongoing | :18:44. | :18:53. | |
police investigation, we're limited in what we can | :18:54. | :18:55. | |
say about these new, You have had many threats in the | :18:56. | :19:09. | |
past, you have said, but in a different order. | :19:10. | :19:12. | |
-- of a different order. Why is it important for you to make this | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
public? I have been fighting against racism 525 years but this was | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
different, because this is actually a small minority from within the | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
community who thought that because I dissented, because I condemned what | :19:27. | :19:33. | |
I consider to be controversial comments, by individuals within my | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
community, on the question of sectarian violence, on the question | :19:38. | :19:40. | |
of blasphemy laws, etc, it seemed as though I was fair game, it seemed to | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
give the green light to create a climate of fear through which they | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
thought it was OK for individuals to put abuse online, creating bogus | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
petitions online, attacking me and my reputation. To threaten me, to | :19:55. | :20:02. | |
call me an unbeliever, to call me an unbeliever for which the punishment | :20:03. | :20:05. | |
is one of death, that is the work they have used, in Arabic. That is | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
beyond the pale. Creating a climate of fear, we need to have a debate in | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
the community. There has been a climate of fear since 9/11 within | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
the Muslim community because it has been criminalised and targeted. That | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
does not mean that you close down debate windows within the community | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
want to be critical, when they want to raise issues of concern. As the | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
threat that you have received come from abroad, or has it come from the | :20:33. | :20:39. | |
UK? -- has the threat. I cannot go into specific details but it is | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
within the UK and that is a matter for the police investigation. You | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
have been under pressure from family and friends to withdraw from any | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
kind of involvement, to reconcile some of the different groups in the | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
community, some of whom, as you say, take a very hard line on blasphemy | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
laws, some who are much more tolerant parts of the community. Why | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
are you not now stepping back? It has been a creamy difficult, my | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
family and friends, members of the community, has said it is not worth | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
it, put your young family first. I have got to say, it was | :21:16. | :21:18. | |
heartbreaking when one night last week I had to go out, for a meeting | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
with local community leaders, and I kissed my children good night. I | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
held them longer than I normally would, trying to get out of the | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
door. I thought, the thought that went through my head, will this be | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
the last time I see my children? It would have been a creamy easy for me | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
to have walked away. I keep asking that question, my family keep asking | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
me to walk away. That is wrong. It is about my children's future. -- it | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
would have been extremely easy. As I said in the news these early on, I | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
do not want to see the importation of extremist politics from Pakistan, | :21:55. | :22:09. | |
I do not want that. Some say that could be inflammatory. It should not | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
be seen as inflammatory. Using to be saying there is a problem in this | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
country about speaking out. For whatever reason in the past you feel | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
there has been a demonisation of the British Asian community, there is a | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
problem speaking out. -- you seem to be saying. So people will not stand | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
up against extremism in this country, and that is a real concern | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
of yours. Yes, there is an underlying current, people feel they | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
cannot speak out and if they do they will be targeted and silenced and | :22:38. | :22:45. | |
are they splintering, is the British community is entering into those who | :22:46. | :22:48. | |
will speak out, very few, those who won't, and those who do not condemn | :22:49. | :22:56. | |
the killing of the Punjabi politician because he spoke out | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
against laws. It is important to emphasise that the Glasgow Central | :23:02. | :23:04. | |
Mosque actually managed to come together, the first time ever in the | :23:05. | :23:12. | |
UK that we saw representatives with Pakistani Christians coming | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
together, a Sunni imam even, and when we broke at this meeting I said | :23:18. | :23:20. | |
to the police, this issue is far too great, it is about our future, when | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
we see the loss of one life on our streets, it is one life to many. | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
People have to put aside differences and egos, and they also understood | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
there is individuals within our community, a small minority, who | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
seem to think that what they say in private does not matter. It does | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
matter, that filters out to how they conduct themselves publicly, and if | :23:41. | :23:43. | |
they get with politics in Pakistan and think that is cut off point, | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
that somehow it will not have an impact, then they are wrong. We have | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
seen that, in other situations. The mosques down south, women who have | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
spoken out have been criticised and attacked and abuse online and yet I | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
find myself in the same situation in Scotland. Thank you very much | :24:00. | :24:07. | |
rejoining us. -- thank you very much for joining us. | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
The UN is looking for a new Secretary General. | :24:11. | :24:12. | |
Head of the United Nations Secretariat and Spokesperson | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
Budget? $5.4b billion and rising. | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
Term? Can be indefinite, | :24:19. | :24:19. | |
but usually restricted to two five year stints. | :24:20. | :24:21. | |
Remit? The World! | :24:22. | :24:22. | |
An diplomatic and troubleshooting skills essential. | :24:23. | :24:24. | |
Since its inception in 1945, nine people have held | :24:25. | :24:26. | |
This time, at least one woman wants it. | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
Helen Clark, the former Prime Minister of New Zealand, | :24:31. | :24:32. | |
has just announced she will be running. | :24:33. | :24:34. | |
I spoke to her from New York an hour ago. | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
I started by asking her about the role that the UN plays in global | :24:38. | :24:43. | |
crisis and why they are often criticised for not reacting fast | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
enough. Taking the Syria crisis, from the outset the | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
Secretary-General did appoint a special envoy, Kofi and nine, and | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
curvy in and was followed by Mr Brahimi, and another, and another, | :24:56. | :25:02. | |
and they are talking as we speak in recess at the moment. -- Kofi Annan. | :25:03. | :25:07. | |
The Syria talks are under way and for the sake of the people of Syria, | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
I hope they will succeed. Everything else we do is like a Band Aid as | :25:12. | :25:17. | |
long as there is not peace in Syria. What about the Ebola virus crisis, | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
it has been criticised for the way that they did not handle it. The | :25:22. | :25:27. | |
Secretary-General stepped in. With a special mission to mobilise support. | :25:28. | :25:33. | |
My own organisation was very active. It has led for the UN on the | :25:34. | :25:39. | |
recovery process. At the very top, looking at the Security Council and | :25:40. | :25:42. | |
the five permanent members, which looks like a gentleman 's club of | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
old powers, not new emerging, and that Security Council has a veto. Do | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
you think the make-up of the Security Council is wrong? The | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
Security Council reflects the geopolitical realities of 1945. I | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
have been a Prime Minister, engaged with my country on issues of | :26:02. | :26:04. | |
Security Council reform, I would like the Security Council to look | :26:05. | :26:07. | |
more like the 21st-century world that we live in today. What | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
countries would be in that? There is a group of four that have banded | :26:14. | :26:16. | |
together for many years: Germany, Japan, India, Brazil is outstanding | :26:17. | :26:22. | |
of the standards. Then there has also been the proposal alongside | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
that for permanent and Bishop for two places from Africa, and other | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
suggestions as well. -- permanent membership. As constructed in 1945, | :26:34. | :26:38. | |
before many of today's member states in the UN were independent nations, | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
the Security Council does not reflect the geopolitics we see | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
today. And as you say, the world looks very different from what it | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
did in 1945, what is the justification for the United Kingdom | :26:51. | :26:53. | |
for having a permanent place on the Security Council? 1945, coming out | :26:54. | :27:02. | |
of the disaster of World War II, the United Kingdom was a great power and | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
is still a very significant power, but the member states will have to | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
sort this out, whatever technical experts, secretaries, support the | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
organisation, can give, it will. In the end, it is a member state | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
decision as to what they want it to look like. Looking at the United | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
Nations since 1945, there have been nine Secretary-General, none have | :27:26. | :27:28. | |
been a woman. With the fact of being a woman and a former leader of a | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
country put you in a different kind of footing? I am not campaigning as | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
a woman candidate, I am campaigning as the best person to the job. | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
Obviously I am a woman and as someone who has been a long-time | :27:43. | :27:45. | |
advocate of women's empowerment and gender equality, I like to see women | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
get to the top of whatever field in life. If there is one thing that the | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
United Nations should be achieving now that it has not achieved, what | :27:55. | :28:01. | |
is it? Developing the skills required for the new kinds of | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
conflicts. The conflict we are seeing are by and large not those | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
that were envisaged when the charter was written, when the idea was to | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
banish war between nations, by and large, with few exceptions, that has | :28:14. | :28:19. | |
been achieved. We see so much conflict, civil wars, disparate, | :28:20. | :28:21. | |
non-state actors in these complex, violent extremists. This calls for | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
different approaches and for the United Nations with its strong | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
development, he managed Aryan, human rights, building of peacekeeping | :28:30. | :28:36. | |
arms, -- humanitarian. We need to make a real difference and we need | :28:37. | :28:38. | |
to play as a team. The latest opinion polls on the EU | :28:39. | :28:47. | |
Referendum suggest that the result will be close so both Leave | :28:48. | :28:50. | |
and Remain campaigns will be chasing down every last vote, | :28:51. | :28:53. | |
and millions of those It's estimated that 5.5 | :28:54. | :28:55. | |
million UK nationals live beyond our shores, and if they have | :28:56. | :28:58. | |
been on the electoral register in the past 15 years | :28:59. | :29:01. | |
they will be eligible to vote So what does EU membership look | :29:02. | :29:03. | |
like from where they live? Secunder Kermani reports from that | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
British haven in Spain, VOICEOVER: Around 2 million Brits | :29:08. | :29:10. | |
live in the continental EU, I love Spain. | :29:11. | :29:40. | |
I love the Spanish people. And the sunshine, obviously! | :29:41. | :29:43. | |
Many end up in the Costa Del Sol. We took this over, | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
lock, stock and barrel. Brits have been here for decades, | :29:47. | :29:48. | |
but now with the possibility of a Brexit, there is definitely | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
a sense of trouble in paradise. who now spends his time looking | :29:53. | :29:55. | |
after stray Spanish donkeys Ron's horrified at the possibility | :29:56. | :30:01. | |
of a Brexit. He's even more angry | :30:02. | :30:08. | |
that he won't be allowed a vote, as he left the UK more | :30:09. | :30:11. | |
than 15 years ago. I still hold, and my wife, | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
holds a British passport. Ron, like many expats, | :30:17. | :30:18. | |
is a Spanish resident, I could seek Spanish nationality | :30:19. | :30:30. | |
now, I've been here long enough, I want to be British. | :30:31. | :30:37. | |
Why? Because, whether it's right | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
or wrong, I still believe Maybe not to live, but it's | :30:41. | :30:43. | |
still the best place in the world. concerned at the prospect | :30:44. | :31:01. | |
of being cut adrift from Britain, thousands of others here can | :31:02. | :31:07. | |
vote in June. More than half the British expats | :31:08. | :31:14. | |
here in Spain are reportedly over 50 years old, and many of them are now | :31:15. | :31:17. | |
worried about what the EU referendum could mean for their plans | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
for retirement in the sun. One rather dramatic phrase that's | :31:22. | :31:23. | |
been going round the community as they could all be turned | :31:24. | :31:25. | |
into illegal immigrants overnight. This bowling club is where Malaga | :31:26. | :31:31. | |
meets Middle England. The big concerns here, | :31:32. | :31:45. | |
other than the rub of the green, are access to health | :31:46. | :31:56. | |
care and pensions. Brits here get free medical | :31:57. | :31:58. | |
treatment, but that could come I do suffer from diabetes and one | :31:59. | :32:00. | |
or two other conditions. They look after me, | :32:01. | :32:10. | |
whether that will continue And if you had to start | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
paying for a privately? Then we would have | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
to go back to England. What kind of stuff are people | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
talking about, then? It affects a lot of people here, | :32:24. | :32:25. | |
if their pensions are going Will that make life a lot harder | :32:26. | :32:32. | |
for people, do you think? They've already lost their heating | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
allowance, and that's affected It does get cold over here, | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
you do need heating over But other pensioners here are more | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
worried about what they see I have a daughter in Tunbridge Wells | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
and we regularly go and visit. And when I walk round | :32:50. | :32:58. | |
Tunbridge Wells, the shopping centre, I rarely hear | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
an English person. Tunbridge Wells 20 years ago | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
was a lovely place to live, and now they have | :33:07. | :33:14. | |
their own pubs, etc. Isn't that a bit like the British | :33:15. | :33:16. | |
people here in the Costa Del Sol? You come to live in Spain, | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
the Spanish government There are plenty of pubs, | :33:21. | :33:23. | |
restaurants and bars catering for British people | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
on the Costa Del Sol. In Spainsburys you can get | :33:28. | :33:39. | |
all your favourites from home. With 80% of their stock | :33:40. | :33:41. | |
brought over from Britain, the owners worry getting their hands | :33:42. | :33:55. | |
on vital imports likr expats favourite sauces, | :33:56. | :33:58. | |
will be much harder. What's the biggest sellers | :33:59. | :33:59. | |
for the British customers? That has to come, | :34:00. | :34:01. | |
imported in, does it? You can buy the Spanish equivalent | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
of our most popular brand in the UK, but again, they don't seem | :34:07. | :34:10. | |
to taste the same. Do you think it could be a lot | :34:11. | :34:12. | |
harder to import all this type I hope not, but quite possibly, | :34:13. | :34:20. | |
yeah. Big Dave has dished up his fair | :34:21. | :34:23. | |
share of baked beans. He owns one of the most popular | :34:24. | :34:32. | |
cafes on the Costa Del Sol. Roast beef and Yorkshire | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
pudding on Sunday... Dave's worried that leaving the EU | :34:37. | :34:42. | |
could mean fewer customers They're already talking | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
about shutting orders and checking British people's passport | :34:48. | :34:56. | |
and visas for us. I've been here 15 years, | :34:57. | :34:57. | |
what's going to change then? You have an immigration problem | :34:58. | :35:00. | |
at home at the moment with immigrants | :35:01. | :35:08. | |
coming back in. I don't know how many Brits | :35:09. | :35:09. | |
in Europe at the moment... We would be a massive strain | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
on the NHS if we all turn up, overweight, nice and suntanned | :35:13. | :35:20. | |
but looking for some free health cover and maybe a house or somewhere | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
to live because we've just been thrown out of Spain, | :35:26. | :35:28. | |
because you've said Even though most people | :35:29. | :35:30. | |
here are in favour of staying in Europe, worried what a Brexit | :35:31. | :35:39. | |
would mean for them, many say if they were in Britain | :35:40. | :35:42. | |
they might be voting differently, an indication perhaps of how | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
divisive this referendum really is. When first time author | :35:47. | :35:59. | |
Jessica Knoll's thriller Luckiest Girl Alive was published | :36:00. | :36:01. | |
last year it garnered brilliant reviews, sold all over the world | :36:02. | :36:03. | |
and spent four months It was the darkest and most | :36:04. | :36:06. | |
terrfiying of stories about a young outwardly successful | :36:07. | :36:15. | |
young woman in New York, Ani Fanelli, | :36:16. | :36:16. | |
who is hiding a dreadful secret. As a teenager she was gang raped | :36:17. | :36:18. | |
by three boys at her upscale private Now, a year after publication, | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
and after repeatedly being asked the question and denying it, | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
Jessica Knoll has revealed in an essay on Lena Dunham's website | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
that what happened to Ani Fanelli, was inspired by what happened | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
to her. This paradigm shift has caused | :36:37. | :36:37. | |
a sensation and Jessica Knoll says Good evening, Jessica. You were | :36:38. | :36:50. | |
constantly asked if this book was based on you when the hardback came | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
out and you constantly denied it. Why did you stay silent for so long? | :36:56. | :37:01. | |
I think it was just a matter of being conditioned to being silent | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
about it. When this first happened to me I did try to talk about and I | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
did try to ask for help and it was like I was shot down where ever I | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
was turned and told not to talk about this, that nothing bad had | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
happened to me. That is how I internalised it and spend the next | :37:21. | :37:23. | |
17 years of my life, not talking about it and feeling... It would | :37:24. | :37:31. | |
make people feel uncomfortable to talk about. In the book there is a | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
scene where Ani Fanelli, after what happens to, goes to a doctor and | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
asks the doctor if he thinks she has been raped and they say, I'm not | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
qualified to say. That did happen to you. I wonder if that doctor said | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
yes, you were raped, if your life would be different? I think it is a | :37:51. | :37:56. | |
real possibility. What I was looking for then was someone to give me a | :37:57. | :38:02. | |
voice, and someone to say, yes, you were raped, that did happen to you. | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
I wonder if I felt I had any measure of support, especially from an | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
authority figure or an adult, if the situation would have turned out | :38:13. | :38:18. | |
differently. You then decided to confess. Why did you put your essay | :38:19. | :38:25. | |
on Lena Dunham's site? I think it is an amazing platform. I'm a big | :38:26. | :38:37. | |
admirer. A big admirer of Lena Dunham and of the editor and chief | :38:38. | :38:40. | |
of their site. They were supportive of the book when it first came out | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
and said, if you ever want to write anything for us, please let us know. | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
That was probably about 8-9 months ago. That stayed with me and when I | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
decided I did want to write about this, they were the first people I | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
turned to. Why did you make the decision to come clean? I think it | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
was just knowing I was about to go on a tour for the paperback release | :39:04. | :39:11. | |
here in the states and knowing I was going to be asked this question | :39:12. | :39:13. | |
again and again in every city where I docked. Did something similar | :39:14. | :39:20. | |
happened to you that happened to Ani Fanelli, or how did you write that | :39:21. | :39:28. | |
seems so specifically? I did a very awkward song and dance and I didn't | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
want to do that any more. I wanted to speak candidly. What we must | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
remember is this is the start now, because you have said this, of | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
course a difficult process for you personally? Well, yes. This is all | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
part of the healing process, which I never went through when I was | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
younger. I buried it. Now I'm talking about it, and now I'm | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
actually dealing with it. I'm hurting about it and crying about | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
it, and those are all good things, but they are very hard. This is the | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
beginning of a long, overdue healing process. I was going to say, do you | :40:07. | :40:11. | |
think the act of talking about it now is bringing some measure of | :40:12. | :40:17. | |
relief? Not necessarily relief, but what it's bringing me is a sense of | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
strength and power. I didn't have a voice when I was younger. Nobody | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
stood up for me. I tried to stand up for myself and I wasn't able to. Now | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
I'm able to do that and supported in doing that, so it's a very | :40:32. | :40:37. | |
empowering feeling. Just because I think the book has appealed to so | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
many young women and has done the rounds. You have written a | :40:42. | :40:44. | |
screenplay and so forth. I wonder what you would say to other young | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
women... The point of this is at the age of 14 and 15, would you say to | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
them, keep pushing, you have to tell people? Because for them there is no | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
great revelation of healing in your book. I mean, I don't presume to | :40:59. | :41:05. | |
tell anyone and what to do with her own experiences. The essay, what I | :41:06. | :41:13. | |
was hoping to do in writing that essay was to let women like that | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
know that they are not alone. If I had written an essay like that when | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
I was 15 it would have meant the world to me. I hope someone is able | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
to read it and feel a connection to me and to know that all this | :41:28. | :41:30. | |
wonderful support I have received over the last week is also support | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
for them. How have your parents been? This is the must be difficult | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
for them to see go through this recently? It has been very difficult | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
for them, no parent wants to see their child in pain or know they | :41:46. | :41:48. | |
have carried something as awful as this with them for all these years. | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
At the end of the day they understand completely why I did this | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
and are very proud of me. Jessica, thank very much. | :41:57. | :41:59. | |
That's all we have time for - I am back tomorrow - | :42:00. | :42:16. | |
A very good evening to you. The downpours of | :42:17. | :42:17. |