03/03/2017 Newsnight

The Prime Minister is fighting on two fronts.

Not content with hitting the EU head on over Brexit,

she's taken a huge swipe at the Scottish Government.

Politics is not a game, and government is not a platform for

which to pursue constitutional obsessions.

A tunnel vision nationalism, which focuses only on

independence at any cost, sells Scotland short.

Is this how you talk to a neighbour supposedly

We ask the SNP and the Conservative Secretary of State for Scotland.

Also tonight - she was a serving officer for 13 years, the face

Now she has quit spectacularly on Facebook saying the stress

and anxiety brought on by falling police numbers and lack of care

And later we'll be live from Belfast, from the Northern Ireland

elections where Sinn Fein look like they are having their best

showing ever and the leader of the Ulster Unionists has resigned.

Few would dispute that we are in a constitutional maelstrom

in the UK at the moment, but today that vortex intensified.

We had a bruising referendum campaign about the future

of the United Kingdom in the EU, but now the fight within the UK

Today, Theresa May took the Brexit gloves off with a speech to the Tory

Party in Scotland which accused the Scottish Government

of an obsession with Independence stoking up endless constitutional

grievance, and tunnel vision nationalism.

Is this the same Prime minister who arrived in Scotland's capital

the day after she won the Tory leadership in July assuring

the Scottish government that she wanted it fully engaged

Are we heading for a rematch, Indi Ref II?

The Brexit referendum has turned what was supposedly a once

in a generation decision into a live question once again.

The Prime Minister was at the Scottish Conservative Conference

today, accusing the SNP of using the EU vote to reheat

arguments that the Scottish people have already rejected once.

Politics is not a game and government is not

a platform for which to pursue constitutional obsessions.

It is about taking the serious decisions to improve people's lives.

A tunnel vision nationalism which focuses only on independence

The SNP government has been pressing for what it calls a differentiated

settlement for Scotland post-Brexit, staying in the EU single market

Today, the Prime Minister ruled out such an arrangement.

I am determined to ensure that as we leave the EU,

we do so as one United Kingdom which prospers outside the EU

That means achieving a deal with the EU which works

for all parts of the UK, England, Scotland, Wales

And for the United Kingdom as a whole.

The truly irritating thing about it all is that there are deals

There is a deal with Nissan, a deal for the City of London.

There's probably going to be a deal for Ireland,

maybe one for soft fruit farmers in East Anglia.

And yet the one group of people who have voted so

emphatically to want a deal to stay in the EU and the single

market are the Scots, and there's no deal available for us.

For our precious union, of nations and of people. Theresa May's defence

of the union went down well in the hall, but how strong is it in the

hearts of Scottish voters? At the independence referendum in 2014,

44.7% of Scots voted yes. After that, the pro-independent side got a

boost into the high 40s but it settled down to mostly occupy the

40, 40 5% zone. Then came the Brexit vote. The fact Scotland was being

taken out of the EU against its will created a slight in the

pro-independence polling numbers, but then it settled back down to the

same zone it was in before the Brexit vote. There has been a

significant number of voters, about 15% have, according to the polls

move to yes. But that has been balanced by a significant number of

voters moving in the opposite direction. So there has been a fair

amount of churn. It hints at something deeper and longer

standing, which is nobody really knows exactly how a second

independence referendum, if it were to happen in 2018 or in 2019, if it

happens at all, would play out. Scotland's economic standing has

worsened. North Sea oil prices have dropped. And according to the

Scottish Government's own figures, Scotland runs a fiscal deficit of

9.5% of GDP, or ?15 billion a year. But in politics these days, other

arguments seem to carry more weight than simple economics. Another

potentially important change since the independence referendum was the

wiping out in Scotland of the Labour Party. In 2014 they were confident

of delivering their voters for the no side. Since then, those voters

have deserted them. Jeremy Corbyn's apparent willingness for abandoning

the notion Labour could be a plausible party of government at

Westminster, opens the door to Conservative rule in London from

2010 to 2030. The SNP think that is something that will powerfully

concentrate Scottish minds and make independence see more plausible and

unappealing motion. Securing Scotland's place in the EU was a key

plank of the 2014 anti-independence campaign. Now it is a key part of

the nationalist case. How decisive it might be in changing minds,

depends on the Brexit we end up with.

David Mundell is the Secretary of State for Scotland.

He'll make his speech at the Tory Party Conference

Good evening to you. David Mundell, a good photo call with Nicola

Sturgeon two days after she became leader, great sound bites. This is

the real Theresa May, it was an attack on a national government with

its own mandate? It is not anything of that kind. What it is, it is

asking Nicola Sturgeon to take the issue of independence of the table.

What your report didn't cover was the fact that all polling that has

taken place in Scotland indicates the overwhelming majority of people,

whether they are for or against independence, are against having

another independence referendum at this time. They believe we have made

the decision, they think another referendum would be divisive. It is

about saying, let's not talk all the time about independence, let's focus

on the day job, the issues with health and education. Education,

where standards have slumped in Scotland. And on the issue of

Brexit, let's come together, work together and get the best deal for

Scotland. Working together you assume, means taking a well

considered substantial document produced by the Scottish Government

before Christmas, giving it credence, having a discussion about

it. Why does the reason may not think this is a legitimate document?

There is nothing to suggest it is her view. Have you had a formal

response? She has said and I have said, we take this document as a

serious contribution to the debate. That is why officials from both

governments have been working assiduously together to look at the

areas in that document where we have common ground and there are a large

numbers of areas where we have common ground, workers' rights,

criminal justice, and security. But not the single market? What the

position is in relation to the single market, the SNP position is

to have membership of the single market. Our position is to have

access to the single market. In so many areas, the ends we want to

achieve the same. If we can agree on those, it seems to me there is a way

forward. Why does Theresa May think her voice in Scotland is more

legitimate than the First Minister in a country where there was only

one Conservative MP returned in the whole country, and that was you. She

doesn't think her voice is more legitimate, but she is the Prime

Minister of the whole of the United Kingdom. She is entitled to say to

Nicola Sturgeon, stop banging on about independence all the time. The

people of Scotland made their decision in 2014. They made it clear

in all the polling they don't want to have another... I don't think

Theresa May started talking about independence three hours after the

declaration of the result in the EU referendum. It is the first time

Nicola Sturgeon mentioned independence and she has mentioned

it every single day since the 24th of June. You cannot say she has

mentioned it every day, so let's leave that. Why does the government

reject the idea Britain cannot go it alone outside the EU, and uses the

same arguments for why Scotland cannot go it alone? We have had a

referendum in Scotland and people have decided to remain decisively,

part of the United Kingdom. The overwhelming view of people in

Scotland is they should move on from this constitutional debate. I think

people want to see both governments working together so we can get the

best possible deal from the EU as we exited. That is what we are trying

to achieve. In the possibility there is another referendum on Scottish

independence, who is going to run a better together campaign? Argument

remains, there could be another independence referendum, but we

don't believe there should be and we will continue to make the argument

we should not have another independence referendum. But the

Theresa may put herself on the front of a better together campaign? What

Theresa May is doing is emphasising her commitment to the United

Kingdom, setting out the benefits of Scotland being in the United

Kingdom, but calling on Nicola Sturgeon to take this divisive issue

of the threat of another independence referendum of the

table. Let's not talk about the independence referendum, Theresa May

said she would not be triggering Article 50 until she had a UK

approach. The truth is, you don't have a UK approach yet? What doing

is continuing to work with the Scottish Government and other

devolved administrations to take on board issues and concerns they have

raised, so we can go forward into these EU negotiations with a team UK

approach. That is the approach that will get is the best results and

that is why we want the Scottish Government and the government in the

other part of the UK on board, so we can work together. That is how we

will get the best approach and that is Theresa May's approach.

Stephen Gethins is the SNP's Europe Spokesperson.

Theresa May has called Nicola Sturgeon's bluff, so why not just

call a referendum and be done with it? Well, in the interview you have

just had, we have had David Mundell saying it is still alive document.

The biggest crisis we face right now is being taken out of the European

Union in a Tory hard Brexit. It could cost thousands of jobs. The

most detailed document was produced by the Scottish Government, looking

for a compromise that would bring in Northern Ireland and Scotland who

voted to remain overwhelmingly. I think trying to pull together that

compromise was the right thing to do. It is a serious document. If

Theresa May has made it clear she is not interested in an approach which

allows you to differentiate and remain in the single market, if she

has made it clear and it seems that she has, why not just call the

referendum? As soon as she has triggered Article 50? Let's give

them the opportunity to come back, David Mundell said it is still live

so let's take them on their word. Theresa May had an extraordinary

speech lashing out at a government when she doesn't have other problems

to seek right now. This is the biggest crisis of this time right

now, it could cost 80,000 jobs if we are taken out of the EU. David

Mundell talks about independence, Theresa May talks a great deal about

independence. People like me are happy with that. When the Scottish

Government said we could put that to one side, we can try and compromise,

we can look at the deal across the United Kingdom, that is an

opportunity they should have seized. We have a situation in the UK where

we are getting very few details nine months on. We know there is chaos in

a number of Whitehall departments about what happens next. That should

be the Prime Minister's priority right now. If you are getting

signals in the key plank of your document, which is remaining in the

single market, is not a runner, Nicola Sturgeon will look weak if

she doesn't call a referendum now and you will be letting down the

people who expect you to take one forward? Our first responsibility is

about maintaining jobs in the economy. If you look at my own

constituency, the University of St Andrews, which relies heavily on its

relationship with the European Union, we have to try and seek the

least worst option. This is a problem and this is chaos of

Westminster's making. It was a Gross responsibility of believe campaign

who campaigned on a blank piece of paper. How will the Scottish

Government make the decision that concessions, whatever they are or

what ever they are not, are sufficient or insufficient enough to

call a referendum, when will we have some clarity on this from the SNP.

The uni 's Prime Minister is talking about independence, but Nicola

Sturgeon did raise it within a month of the referendum. Why not tell

people what will govern your decision?

Rather than coming up north to Scotland and indulging in some sabre

rattling, maybe Theresa May would have been better to work in terms of

partnership, take the document seriously. It sets out how we can

deal with problems. Remember, this EU decision will have an impact and

each and every one of us in terms of our rights, livelihoods, in terms of

every single part of the economy. This is the biggest crisis we are

facing and it will have an impact on each and everyone of us. There a

live document at the moment that came from the Scottish Government

that came from the Scottish Government that has more detail than

we have seen so far. We want the Westminster government to take that

more seriously, and try to work in partnership.

Laura Beal joined Devon and Cornwall police 13 years ago when she was 19,

She was regarded as such a good officer that her face was

on the Constabulary's Annual Report and on posters advertising

But this week she did something no other serving

She quit very publically, publishing her resignation

In it she talked about her mental breakdown.

She says she was left disillusioned and suffering from stress

and anxiety as a result of the increasing

Falling police numbers in the Constabulary took its toll

on her capacity to do her job and crucially, she says

Good evening. Thank you for joining us. You had a tough time, but do you

remember back when you first wanted to be an officer? Very well and very

fondly. I used to hear so many fantastic stories from my father.

Who was an officer for ten years. Yes. The day I got in wasn't

drastic, I was so proud. You were in the force for 14 years, do you

remember when he started to feel unwell? It is probably a year or two

after the cuts came in, there was the Windsor report and Theresa May

did drastic cuts about two years after that. What actually happens to

you, what were your symptoms? It ranged from just struggling to get

out of bed, and the stereotypical ones where you struggle, it's got to

a point to even going shopping was too much. So you just come back.

What happened when you were actually on the beat, what impact did your

stress levels have on you then? Dramatically. You put your uniform

on and put a face on, and that's what everyone is able to do, but it

got to the point where even putting your uniform on, which is kind of a

mask, you can't even do it any more, and I wasn't able to do it any more,

and it was affecting me too much. Did you feel exposed out in the

field? Yes, I didn't feel safe. There's not enough of us. I didn't

feel safe to drive the vehicle is so quickly in a night and so far. They

were expecting us to do so much and there is no support for mental

health. The procedures we have to go through, if you say you are not

coping well, they sent you to occupational health, who ask if you

have seen your doctor, and you'll only get six counselling sessions.

If you can't have those sessions, they say you have to find your own

route to getting well. Did you feel, as it were, when I say exposed in

the field, did you feel frightened or in danger or putting others in

danger? I was too professional to feel like I was putting others in

danger. The reason I went off sick was because I felt I couldn't do my

job properly. I wouldn't put myself at other people in danger because I

couldn't do my job properly. You made a career, 13 years, how did you

come to the decision? When you are thinking about going into work and

it's a sad thing, it shouldn't be said. The whole point of being alive

is to be happy, I think. When you go into work and you are making out you

are trying to be happy and you can't, it's so suffocating. Even the

thought of putting on my uniform was suffocating. How did your family

deal with that? How did your father help you, was it difficult for him?

My family and friends have been my rocks. I doubt has been so

supportive. He has been my inspiration to join, and also to

have the courage to leave and say, no, you need to be happy, and that's

most important. You have made quite a lot of serious criticisms of

police numbers, the way the police are deployed and so forth. Some

people might say a stressful job isn't the job for you. I wouldn't

have been doing it for 13 years if that was the case. Stress is

something you can manage. It is manageable, and I loved my job and I

was damned good at it, and you just have to see the comments put on

there, it's not just me. A lot of messages of support. So many. All of

them resonate about mental health, they were so stressed, they were

telling supervisors they were stressed and not coping. What

happens is as a result of that they go off sick, and they can't go off

sick. These are colleagues in the police that have contacted you. They

can't go off sick, and because they are stressed little things happen,

they make mistakes, then they are penalised and forced out of the job

that weight and all because of their mental health. Do you think there

are circumstances you would go back into the police force? No, it's too

broken for me. I found my way out and I'm starting to find happy

happiness again. I'm doing mobile dog grooming now. Completely

different! If you see officers in the same circumstances as you,

should they stay and fight for change or should they quit? It's all

on an individual basis. You know yourself, be honest and true with

yourself. It's not as daunting as you think it's going to be and you

owe the police force nothing. You are your own boss. Thank you very

much indeed, Laura. A spokesperson for Devon

and Cornwall told us... "We do hear concerns from officers

and staff and recognise It requires skills and personal

resilience which are often We are a supportive force

and will always assist an officer It's been another tumultuous

week for Donald Trump. Days after a senior member

of his team had to resign because of his contacts

with a Russia diplomat, the President's top legal official

Jeff Sessions also became embroiled in a similar row, leading him

to distance himself from any official role in investigating

Russian links to I have now decided to recuse myself

from any existing or future investigations of any matter

relating in any way to the campaigns So, the Presidency mired

in another week of scandal. But to one leading American

Academic, Timothy Wu, there is no such thing as a bad

headline for Mr Trump. Earlier I asked him why the

president thrives on negative press. He has a completely different

strategy and different way His main interest is always

getting attention first, always being the centre of every

headline, dominating all the news. I think as far as he's concerned,

if he does that, he wins. But did he come upon this

by accident or design? You know, I think certain things

are just people's intuition. He's an entertainer, however,

he understands that the show with the greatest ratings

tends to win. And I think what he understands

is that the American public's Got a million things

going on and most of all And if he actually gets to reach

people with his messages, In a sense, his own unpredictability

is exciting, are you suggesting? You know, the things that really get

people hooked are unpredictable Whether it is on purpose or not,

he seems to have more of America paying attention to the presidency

than any time maybe since So, he has really succeeded

in a very unusual method that most So the idea is, you don't

necessarily have to win a quick hit, you just have to keep going and be

out there the whole time and by even It's kind of counterintuitive,

but it suggests that ultimately it is a contest for attention

and the win-lose All that matters in the end is who's

getting the most attention, who's getting their message

across and by that metric, Donald Would that also suggest

that there is no such thing as bad publicity or is there something that

could be his downfall? You know, for him I really

believe his downfall will not be through normal means,

but more like by being Not like Richard Nixon,

but more like Paris Hilton where people just get sick of him

and forget about it and then His power comes from

a very different place But you could forget

about Paris Hilton, it's a little bit more difficult to forget

about the president, isn't it? He will have other forms of scrutiny

than Paris Hilton had. That's why I think it's safe to say

he's hacked the media. Even the story we are doing

here, it's irresistible, he is the President,

you can't ignore him He's hacked the power

of the media and he's using it Even if that means losing -

losing in the superficial sense - he's trying to win in

the deeper sense. So, is the kind of counterpunch then

to have the media ignore a lot of what he says,

which would presumably I think that's the only

way for him to really have his downfall is if the media,

and frankly the public, just get sick of him,

kind of like an act that's gone one It seems strange, he is

still the president, but I think it's possible people

could get sick of the whole shtick. Indeed, surely if there was some

crisis that befell America, something which required

the president to step up to the plate and he fell short

in that, would that not be I think he could be impeached

and that would be a turning point. I think his absurd handling

of some crisis in some very strange way would,

by his metric, not damage him as much as it would

damage anybody else. Now we bring you the very latest

on a very significant night As the votes come in for

the Northern Irealnd Assembly elections, the Ulster Unionist Party

leader Mike Nesbitt has resigned, and Sinn Fein are on their way

to their best night ever. The BBC's Ireland correspondent

Chris Buckler joins us There are still about 15 of the 90

seats to be filled and counting continues, but it's clear Sinn Fein

has had a very good election. They went into this vote campaigning

about what they said was the DUP's arrogance, a botched green energy

scheme and issues like the Irish language, and there is no doubt that

motivated their vote to come out, and they have given them a great

deal of support. In fact, they have narrowed the gap between their form

a coalition partners, the DUP, two fractions of a percentage point

whenever you look at the share of first percentage vote. Saying that,

the DUP have done relatively well, they have shored up their position

and it will be a very tight result. However, speak to some Democratic

Unionists politicians and privately they say it's a bad day for

unionism, partly because UUP President Mike Nesbitt has resigned

because of his party's poor performance. We have seen the middle

ground getting squeezed and this divisive election, this sectarian

election, has led to success for Sinn Fein in particular and also the

DUP. What do you think the most likely formulation will be at the

end? The big problem is trying to form some sort of power-sharing

government. That will not be easy. We have already had Sinn Fein set

out a red line saying they want Arlene Foster to step aside, not

become First Minister, if they are going to go back into government

with the DUP, at least as long as a public enquiry lasts into the

botched green energy scheme. She was the minister in charge of that

scheme when it was set up inexplicably without cost controls.

That'll put pressure on Arlene Foster and the DUP. I think trying

to put a deal into power-sharing back. They have three weeks to get

eight First Minister and Deputy First Minister elected. Frankly,

that's looking like a tough ask. It raises the possibility that

Westminster might have to step in and take over, effectively what's

known as direct rule, where they run things in Northern Ireland while

there isn't a functioning executive. Neither Sinn Fein nor the DUP want

that, but tonight it doesn't look like they want to work with each

other at this stage either. Thank you, Chris.

But before we go, Nintendo launched a new games console today.

No doubt it'll render Mario in ever more detail than before

But a part of us wonders whether the energetic plumber

Quite a wet start to the day for Scotland and Northern Ireland. It

will be windy and quite cold as well. Any rain doesn't last too long

in eastern England. There