07/04/2017 Newsnight


07/04/2017

The latest on the US missile strike against Syria and the lorry attack in Stockholm, with Evan Davis.


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The US takes a stand against chemical weapons...

:00:00.:00:07.

And the American president adopts a different tone.

:00:08.:00:13.

God bless America and the entire world.

:00:14.:00:15.

Sounds like a man engaging with the rest of us.

:00:16.:00:21.

Wasn't he meant to be the America-First president, the one

:00:22.:00:23.

willing to do deals with Russia and Assad?

:00:24.:00:26.

The Syrian government thinks America was duped.

:00:27.:00:33.

I think they fall to the trick, and they have changed

:00:34.:00:36.

unnecessarily what they thought about Syria.

:00:37.:00:42.

We'll ask what this means for Syria, the US and the

:00:43.:00:44.

And, while the world was reacting to that, a reminder of

:00:45.:00:50.

fraught times - another truck atrocity, this time in the Swedish

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I could actually see bodies lying on the street, and

:00:53.:00:59.

I could see the police covering a body with an orange blanket.

:01:00.:01:13.

Over three days, a huge shift in US policy to Syria.

:01:14.:01:17.

A new engagement with the world and, it seems, a fresh approach

:01:18.:01:19.

to foreign policy that sees America willing to bomb again.

:01:20.:01:23.

On one account, Trump means business, is willing to act

:01:24.:01:27.

fast and decisively, and is telling not just

:01:28.:01:29.

Syria, but Russia, Iran and North Korea to watch out.

:01:30.:01:33.

On this account, what Trump has done has exposed

:01:34.:01:37.

the vacillation of President Obama, and despots of the world will now

:01:38.:01:40.

In the UN Security Council, Nikki Haly, the US

:01:41.:01:44.

When the international community consistently fails in its duty

:01:45.:01:50.

to act collectively, there are times when states are

:01:51.:01:53.

The indiscriminate use of chemical weapons against innocent civilians

:01:54.:01:59.

The United States will not stand by when chemical weapons are used.

:02:00.:02:09.

It is in our vital national security interests to prevent the spread

:02:10.:02:13.

Too soon to call it a Trump doctrine, but there's no doubt,

:02:14.:02:20.

the launch of 59 Tomahawk Cruise missiles in the early hours

:02:21.:02:22.

of our morning suddenly made the world feel like a more familiar

:02:23.:02:25.

The US took a forceful stance, Russia and Iran

:02:26.:02:30.

France and Germany supported it too, as did Israel.

:02:31.:02:37.

Or was this a Trump just being capricious and inconsistent?

:02:38.:02:45.

Let's start by talking to the BBC's Middle East editor, Jeremy Bowen.

:02:46.:02:52.

We should start on Syria, Jeremy. How has this changed the course of

:02:53.:02:59.

the Serbian war? We don't know if it does yet. It depends if it is a

:03:00.:03:04.

one-off or it is part of a thought out US strategy, a new strategy, one

:03:05.:03:08.

that has a clear idea of what victory looks like, a clear idea of

:03:09.:03:12.

how they get there. That might change things. More attacks might

:03:13.:03:17.

change things as well, if the Americans choose to use more force.

:03:18.:03:21.

Actually changing the course of this terrible conflict, I think, will

:03:22.:03:28.

take more than simply one attack. Let's talk about Syria. We will hear

:03:29.:03:31.

from the Syrian Deputy Foreign Minister shortly. What has been

:03:32.:03:37.

going on there? It would obviously be very bad for America if it

:03:38.:03:41.

emerged that they had been duped and it wasn't the Syrians who have

:03:42.:03:46.

released sarin gas. What would be the theories as to why Syria might

:03:47.:03:51.

be engaging in chemical warfare this week? The regime absolutely denies

:03:52.:03:55.

they had anything to do with it, or ever had anything to do with

:03:56.:04:00.

chemical weapons. That's the first thing. There's one school of thought

:04:01.:04:04.

that says Assad would have been insane to use chemical weapons at

:04:05.:04:09.

this point. With his Russian friends, he has scored important

:04:10.:04:12.

victories, turned the tide of war in his favour, with Aleppo falling at

:04:13.:04:16.

the end of last year, a lot of bombing going on in Idlib province,

:04:17.:04:22.

a rebel holdout, in the last couple of months, and particularly in the

:04:23.:04:25.

last few weeks by the Russians, so why would he do it? Why would he

:04:26.:04:31.

want to get Trump, who was talking about him as part of the solution to

:04:32.:04:36.

Islamic State, and then bombing him? That is one thing. Another school of

:04:37.:04:40.

thought is that Assad and his people knew all of that but they got away

:04:41.:04:46.

with using chemical weapons in 2013. I say here that they deny they get.

:04:47.:04:52.

They got away with it in 2013, really wanted to show all those who

:04:53.:04:55.

oppose them that they would grind them into the dirt and so, as well

:04:56.:05:01.

as conventional weapons, they thought, what the hell, we have

:05:02.:05:06.

chemical weapons left over, we'll use them too. Will speak to the

:05:07.:05:08.

Deputy Foreign Minister shortly. It does seem like a hugely

:05:09.:05:10.

different Donald Trump to the one that was against bombing

:05:11.:05:12.

of Syria back in 2013, and who campaigned against US

:05:13.:05:15.

involvement in foreign wars. Many thought he could end up taking

:05:16.:05:17.

the US into isolation and yielding much of the world

:05:18.:05:20.

to the influence of President Putin. David Grossman considers how

:05:21.:05:23.

significant a shift it is. The eagle in the presidential seal

:05:24.:05:36.

carries both an olive branch and a clutch of arrows, the power to make

:05:37.:05:40.

peace or wage war. Before being elected, Donald Trump repeatedly

:05:41.:05:44.

warned America's real enemy was not the Assad Government but Islamist

:05:45.:05:50.

terrorism. I don't like Assad at all, but he is carrying the Luke

:05:51.:05:59.

killing Isis. -- but he is killing ices. He said very bad things would

:06:00.:06:04.

happen if America got involved. That view has clearly changed. Tonight, I

:06:05.:06:11.

ordered targeted military strikes on the airfield from which the chemical

:06:12.:06:19.

attack was launched. Trump has consistently emphasised that the

:06:20.:06:21.

priority in Syria should be fighting ices and even imply that one point

:06:22.:06:26.

during the campaign that Assad could be a partner in fighting ices. He

:06:27.:06:31.

said that Russia and Assad are fighting ices, so shouldn't we as

:06:32.:06:45.

well? -- fighting IS. The world is now trying to work out what our

:06:46.:06:50.

Trump 's ambitions and triggers in the region and a purpose for

:06:51.:06:53.

American involvement. The problems in this attack is limited to the

:06:54.:06:57.

specific objective of punishing and deterring Assad from using chemical

:06:58.:07:01.

weapons in the future. I think it will be effective for that limited

:07:02.:07:05.

objective. But of course, it doesn't deal with the more fundamental

:07:06.:07:11.

problem that the Assad Government is committing war crimes every day.

:07:12.:07:19.

TRANSLATION: This is what the damage on the ground look like, according

:07:20.:07:29.

to Russian television. TRANSLATION: This is an act of aggression does

:07:30.:07:40.

that reminds me of 2003 when the US and Britain invaded Iraq without the

:07:41.:07:44.

agreement of the UN Security Council, a major violation of

:07:45.:07:46.

international law. This of the photograph the White House released

:07:47.:07:51.

the president and his team the moment after the missiles it. There

:07:52.:07:55.

are obvious echoes with his predecessor and his advisers

:07:56.:08:00.

overseeing the operation to kill Osama bin London. President Trump's

:08:01.:08:06.

controversial chief strategist, Steve Bannon, is literally taking a

:08:07.:08:16.

back-seat. Hopefully Trump is starting to listen to people around

:08:17.:08:21.

him. Steve Bannon has been removed, and many were concerned about him.

:08:22.:08:25.

He has been removed from the National Security Council. I don't

:08:26.:08:28.

expect that everything Trump does in foreign policy will be a dumpster

:08:29.:08:33.

fire. I do think we are seeing a process of some normalisation of the

:08:34.:08:36.

administration is the people around him start getting their foot in.

:08:37.:08:40.

Last night's air strike has rather overshadowed another apparent

:08:41.:08:45.

foreign policy refinement from the Trump administrations an his

:08:46.:08:50.

attitude towards China. It is a tremendous honour for me and my

:08:51.:08:56.

representatives... Today, he was posting president Xi Jin Ping. He

:08:57.:09:04.

once described China as an enemy that was raping the American

:09:05.:09:07.

economy. Yellow Mikey has backed away from most of the controversial

:09:08.:09:10.

things he said before taking office, questioning the value of Nato, and

:09:11.:09:18.

US allies, questioning the US one China policy. -- he has backed away.

:09:19.:09:28.

He has proved to be much more moderate than candidate Trump. It

:09:29.:09:31.

reflects the responsibilities of office, in part, and that most of

:09:32.:09:39.

his foreign policy team are very mainstream. In any presidency, there

:09:40.:09:48.

are always two processes going on in parallel. The man shakes the offers,

:09:49.:09:51.

and the office shapes the man. Let's get the Syrian

:09:52.:09:53.

point of view now. Just for context, it's worth noting

:09:54.:09:55.

that quite apart from the sarin gas attack this week,

:09:56.:09:58.

and the ones in 2013, there have been chlorine gas attacks

:09:59.:10:01.

on more frequent occasions. Last year, the Organisation

:10:02.:10:04.

for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons,

:10:05.:10:06.

the OPCW, jointly with the UN, did find that the Syrian government

:10:07.:10:09.

was responsible for at least three of those, while there

:10:10.:10:13.

was insufficient evidence That may or may not be relevant

:10:14.:10:18.

to the assessment that the Syrian government was responsible

:10:19.:10:24.

for the latest sarin attack. Well, a little earlier

:10:25.:10:26.

I spoke to Faisal Mekdad, I asked him what he thought had

:10:27.:10:30.

happened in Idlib this week. What happened is that a fabricated

:10:31.:10:34.

incident of the use of chemical weapons in Khan Sheikhoun was made,

:10:35.:10:46.

and at the end of the game, the United States has come

:10:47.:10:49.

at the request of terrorist groups in Syria and bombarded

:10:50.:10:54.

a very important airport from which our planes go and attack

:10:55.:10:59.

Daesh and Jabhat al-Nusra What happened to ignite sarin gas

:11:00.:11:03.

in Khan Sheikhoun this week? I think the terrorist groups have

:11:04.:11:14.

hidden these materials, and we have reported this

:11:15.:11:21.

to the United Nations Security Council, and to the Organisation

:11:22.:11:24.

on the Prevention of Chemical Weapons, some time ago,

:11:25.:11:28.

and told them the terrorists groups, including Daesh and Jabhat al-Nusra,

:11:29.:11:37.

are bringing in chemical materials from Turkey and Iraq in order to use

:11:38.:11:41.

them in the war against Syria. The real story has not been yet

:11:42.:11:45.

confirmed because the whole area is under the control

:11:46.:11:50.

of a terrorist group. Is it your contention, Mr Mekdad,

:11:51.:12:01.

that the Syrian government has not used sarin gas or chlorine gas

:12:02.:12:04.

at any point in the In my capacity, as the chairman

:12:05.:12:07.

of the Syrian National Committee, on the implementation

:12:08.:12:13.

of our responsibility towards the OPC, the Organisation

:12:14.:12:18.

on Chemical Weapons, we have shipped all the materials

:12:19.:12:22.

on British, on French, on Finnish, on American ships, and we send them

:12:23.:12:35.

to be burned in those We have no whatsoever

:12:36.:12:38.

any chemical weapons, and the Syrian army has not

:12:39.:12:42.

and will never use them If we have to say what are the gains

:12:43.:12:44.

of the Syrian government between using traditional weapons,

:12:45.:12:55.

or using these chemicals, the traditional weapons

:12:56.:12:57.

would kill more terrorists So the Syrian army has no interest,

:12:58.:13:00.

no gains as, I mean, for the use Why has the Organisation

:13:01.:13:15.

for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons in its joint

:13:16.:13:17.

investigative mechanism with the United Nations found

:13:18.:13:21.

that the Syrian government was responsible for chlorine attacks

:13:22.:13:23.

on various occasions, I read the report very carefully,

:13:24.:13:25.

and they said that they were not able to go to those areas

:13:26.:13:35.

because they are under the control of terrorist groups,

:13:36.:13:37.

and they said that there is a possibility that the Syrian

:13:38.:13:40.

Government may have used chlorine in these attacks,

:13:41.:13:47.

but there was no confirmation whatsoever of these incidents

:13:48.:13:52.

in the report given to the Security Mr Mekdad, can you understand why

:13:53.:13:55.

most of the world simply doesn't believe a word

:13:56.:14:01.

that the Syrian government says? We have seen the indiscriminate

:14:02.:14:04.

behaviour in terms of attacking civilians that has been exhibited

:14:05.:14:06.

in eastern Aleppo, just to take one example, and simply,

:14:07.:14:11.

your government doesn't have a reputation that

:14:12.:14:12.

anyone will stand by, and when you say that you're not

:14:13.:14:19.

behind chlorine gas attacks that other people say you are,

:14:20.:14:22.

or this latest attack this week. When we were liberating eastern

:14:23.:14:26.

Aleppo from the terrorist groups, the entire international community

:14:27.:14:32.

was mobilised against Syria. Recently, in attacks carried out

:14:33.:14:36.

by the same terrorist groups who occupied eastern Aleppo

:14:37.:14:41.

against Damascus, the capital of Syria, not a single

:14:42.:14:44.

incident was reported. During these attacks,

:14:45.:14:48.

many Syrian civilians, including children and women

:14:49.:14:50.

in the capital of Syria were killed as well,

:14:51.:14:53.

but the international community is standing with us strong,

:14:54.:14:57.

with the mobilisation of the international media,

:14:58.:14:59.

against the Syrian Government, with the support of certain

:15:00.:15:05.

governments like those What is your reaction going to be,

:15:06.:15:07.

to the American attack last night? This is an aggression

:15:08.:15:17.

against a sovereign country. acting within the charter,

:15:18.:15:22.

and the role of the Security Council to stop such attacks

:15:23.:15:35.

against sovereign country. Only a week ago, the position

:15:36.:15:38.

of the American Government, the Trump administration,

:15:39.:15:40.

well, it was that Assad is a matter for the Syrian people,

:15:41.:15:42.

not for the American Government, and effectively this week has seen

:15:43.:15:45.

a huge change in the approach This attack was fabricated,

:15:46.:15:48.

fabricated to change the position of the United States,

:15:49.:15:54.

of the Trump administration, against Syria, and I think

:15:55.:15:59.

the administration in Washington and other countries were subject

:16:00.:16:01.

to a misleading information that came to them, or have created such

:16:02.:16:03.

a thing to change these policies. The Americans are just a victim

:16:04.:16:15.

here, they have just been a bit dim and fallen for a trick against them,

:16:16.:16:18.

it's not that they have the best intelligence services

:16:19.:16:23.

and the biggest security administration in the world,

:16:24.:16:24.

it's just they are suckers, basically, they've fallen

:16:25.:16:27.

for a trick. I think they have fall to the trick,

:16:28.:16:32.

and they have changed unnecessarily In fact, their statements two weeks'

:16:33.:16:35.

ago or ten days ago contradict with what they have done today

:16:36.:16:40.

morning, in attacking Syrians and killing innocent children

:16:41.:16:43.

and women around Shayrat airport. Do you ever stand back and think

:16:44.:16:51.

there are a lot of people in Syria Your country has fallen

:16:52.:16:54.

apart under him. It's in the grip of

:16:55.:17:01.

a horrendous Civil War. Do you ever think, would it not just

:17:02.:17:04.

be helpful if this guy stood out of the way or said he was willing

:17:05.:17:07.

to stand out of the way if there was a peace process, do

:17:08.:17:11.

you never look at what is happening to Syria, and think "My goodness,

:17:12.:17:14.

we need to do something here, rather than just stand and fight

:17:15.:17:17.

and bomb our own people"? After the election of

:17:18.:17:21.

President Trump, and even in the UK, in France,

:17:22.:17:23.

people, I mean a lot of people hate his election,

:17:24.:17:25.

a lot of people hate President A lot of people hate Prime Minister,

:17:26.:17:28.

the Prime Minister in the UK, but they have never resorted

:17:29.:17:32.

to the use of weapons to express themselves

:17:33.:17:34.

as what happened in Syria. In Syria we have a lot of people

:17:35.:17:36.

who support policies His role in combatting terrorism,

:17:37.:17:39.

his role in bringing peace back into Syria,

:17:40.:17:51.

so President Assad was elected, He was not elected in the same way

:17:52.:17:53.

as the British Government No, what you are saying

:17:54.:18:12.

is ridiculous because you admit elections in the UK,

:18:13.:18:18.

but you don't elect, Tens of thousands of people have

:18:19.:18:20.

gone to the embassy of Syria, in Lebanon to elect

:18:21.:18:25.

President Bashar al-Assad. He is more legitimate than many

:18:26.:18:27.

of the European leaders you have, but these are not the questions

:18:28.:18:30.

to be asked. Faisal Mekdad, thank

:18:31.:18:36.

you for giving us your time. Between 2013 and 2015,

:18:37.:18:40.

he was special adviser Good evening to you. Do you welcome

:18:41.:19:01.

what President Trump did last night. Within limit, I think it is the

:19:02.:19:05.

right thing to do, to respond and make clear that the United States is

:19:06.:19:10.

not going to allow the regime to use chemical weapons, and I think

:19:11.:19:15.

failing to act in some way, would send a message to Assad who was

:19:16.:19:19.

clearly testing President Trump, go right ahead, use chemical weapons as

:19:20.:19:22.

much as you like, so I think there was a case for it and I am glad we

:19:23.:19:28.

did it, but I am also concerned about the consequences and the risk

:19:29.:19:32.

of slippery slope and this administration is going to have to

:19:33.:19:38.

be really disciplined in ensure that this doesn't lead us into conflict

:19:39.:19:42.

in Syria, and discipline is not exactly been the hallmark of this

:19:43.:19:45.

administration. A lot of people say this is a huge shift, in the course

:19:46.:19:51.

of a week, from saying Assad is sort of Syria's problem, to getting

:19:52.:19:56.

pulled in as it is. Do you see this as a major shift, a strategic

:19:57.:19:59.

change, or do you see this as a rush of blood to the head in a one off?

:20:00.:20:06.

Well, it is definitely a head spinning change, I mean, I don't

:20:07.:20:09.

think it's a change in the overall strategy but just? Terms of the

:20:10.:20:13.

contrast with Donald Trump's position on this issue, for six

:20:14.:20:18.

year, it is indeed 180 degrees, he has all along from the start of the

:20:19.:20:24.

conflict been opposed to American intervention, he said Obama's red

:20:25.:20:29.

line was dumb to have issued and was against enfor forcing it at the

:20:30.:20:33.

time. You can't just say that well, it all changed because there was a

:20:34.:20:36.

chemical weapon attack, the chemical weapon attack in 2013 was with the

:20:37.:20:41.

same sort of substance and it killed about 15 times as many people. So in

:20:42.:20:45.

that case he was against it, now suddenly this week, he is for it,

:20:46.:20:51.

only days after administration representatives had signalled they

:20:52.:20:54.

were OK with Assad staying in power. So in that sense... Are you feeling

:20:55.:21:00.

more positive, sorry to interrupt, are you feeling more positive about

:21:01.:21:05.

President Trump. He has done what I suspect President Obama wishes he

:21:06.:21:11.

has done, back if 2013, hasn't he? Well, I don't know if President

:21:12.:21:15.

Obama wishes he has done that, he is on the record recently as saying he

:21:16.:21:21.

thought it came out better than it would have had, and the logic there

:21:22.:21:25.

is, that is my caution about feeling so good about what happened now,

:21:26.:21:30.

nobody, we are 12 hours or whatever after the strikes, critics or people

:21:31.:21:33.

who are concerned about where it leads never thought that the bad

:21:34.:21:37.

things would happen in 12 hours and President Obama didn't think that

:21:38.:21:40.

then, the concern is that you feel good about an initial set of

:21:41.:21:43.

strikes, but then down the road, you know, the others get a vote to. What

:21:44.:21:48.

does Assad do now and what does Putin do now? I am concerned, even

:21:49.:21:52.

though I think it was the right thing for the United States to

:21:53.:21:57.

respond, there will be a reaction from the other side, and I think it

:21:58.:22:01.

won't be long before Assad is challenging Trump again, maybe not

:22:02.:22:05.

with chemical weapons but possibly bombing the same parts of Idlib with

:22:06.:22:09.

barrel bombs and other munitions and killing lots of people and saying,

:22:10.:22:13.

sorry, you really haven't changed the course of war.

:22:14.:22:21.

And that will give a dilemma. Do you think the foreign policy is

:22:22.:22:24.

normalising, under Donald Trump? I wonder whether that is because there

:22:25.:22:28.

is something of a kind of, not a battle, but there are different

:22:29.:22:32.

advisers telling him different things and he seems to be leaning

:22:33.:22:39.

towards, if you like, the more conventional foreign policy add

:22:40.:22:42.

video -- adviser, is that is what is going on. That is what is going on.

:22:43.:22:47.

If you set aside the must irand the tweets and the dust that gets kicked

:22:48.:22:51.

up by what this President sometimes says when you look at major policy

:22:52.:22:56.

on major strategic issues they are coming out in a fairly convention

:22:57.:23:00.

Way, the style is far from conventional, you have to

:23:01.:23:04.

acknowledge that, in contrast to campaign positions, he said he would

:23:05.:23:09.

dismantle the Iran nuclear deal. It turns out he doesn't want do that.

:23:10.:23:14.

He questioned a China policy as the transition and he is meeting with

:23:15.:23:18.

the President of China and sticking with the one China policy, he said

:23:19.:23:22.

he would move the embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, then decided it wasn't

:23:23.:23:27.

such a great idea. He questioned Nato's utility and sent his Vice

:23:28.:23:30.

President to Nato to say good things about it. You have gone from quite

:23:31.:23:38.

radical unconventional challenging positions, to much more mainstream

:23:39.:23:41.

and then as you say the personnel is becoming more mainstream as well.

:23:42.:23:46.

General Flynn was a radical, he lasted 24 days. He has been replaced

:23:47.:23:53.

by a much more conventional national security adviser, the Secretary of

:23:54.:23:55.

Defence, Secretary of State. It is moving in a much more traditional

:23:56.:24:00.

direction. We still have a President who is impulsive and as we saw

:24:01.:24:04.

yesterday can change on the dime as if his previous positions had no

:24:05.:24:08.

meaning whatsoever. Thank you very much indeed.

:24:09.:24:09.

And again, it was a vehicle that was used as a weapon to cause death.

:24:10.:24:15.

It really seems that this has become the default method for those

:24:16.:24:19.

In this case, a beer truck was used, which had been hijacked

:24:20.:24:23.

There was panic in the streets of Stockholm today, as shoppers

:24:24.:24:28.

in the centre of the city ran from a suspected terror attack.

:24:29.:24:30.

A lorry smashed into a department store, before bursting into flames.

:24:31.:24:33.

The Swedish Prime Minister, Stefan Lofven spoke this evening,

:24:34.:24:35.

to express the nation's shock and anger.

:24:36.:24:43.

Thoughts, concerns and condolences have reached many of us

:24:44.:24:45.

And we are grateful for the many warm expressions

:24:46.:24:53.

We are determined never to let the values that we treasure,

:24:54.:24:59.

democracy, human rights, and freedom to be

:25:00.:25:01.

It's been a little confusing this evening, with the suggestion

:25:02.:25:13.

that the police had picked up a suspect, but followed up

:25:14.:25:16.

by a claim that they were still looking for the killer.

:25:17.:25:19.

BBC correspondent Dan Johnson is in Stockholm, and just

:25:20.:25:21.

before we came on air, he brought us up to date

:25:22.:25:24.

Well there is a strange atmosphere here tonight. Swedes are

:25:25.:25:33.

contemplating what happened here earlier and what it may mean for the

:25:34.:25:38.

future, now, the Prime Minister was clear that he said this had all the

:25:39.:25:42.

hallmarks of an acts of terrorism, but at the moment we have had

:25:43.:25:45.

nothing more officially about who may have been involved in this, or

:25:46.:25:48.

what their motivation may have been. We know the police are questioning

:25:49.:25:52.

one man and they are urgently seeking another. They have put

:25:53.:25:55.

images out tonight of somebody they want to talk to, and we know there

:25:56.:25:59.

are extra police on the streets of this city, and across Sweden, and

:26:00.:26:03.

there are extra border checks in place too. Now, there are

:26:04.:26:07.

potentially big questions raised by what has happened here today. It is

:26:08.:26:12.

a huge challenge for security services, here and everywhere

:26:13.:26:14.

really. How to keep people safe when they are walking through a city like

:26:15.:26:19.

this, if someone is prepared to kill, using an every day object,

:26:20.:26:25.

like a delivery truck, that is what was driven through a bed ran niced

:26:26.:26:31.

street today at shopper who had to run to save their live, we know that

:26:32.:26:36.

four people died and 15 are being treated this evening, nine of them

:26:37.:26:41.

seriously ilk and there will be questions in the future about

:26:42.:26:45.

exactly what was behind this attack and that will raise issues perhaps

:26:46.:26:48.

about what extra security measures need to be put in place. Sweden has

:26:49.:26:52.

a proud history of being an open society, that embraces all, but we

:26:53.:26:56.

will have to wait for more detail on exactly what could have been behind

:26:57.:26:59.

this attack before we know the true impact it will have.

:27:00.:27:07.

Just before coming on air, I spoke to Peter Wolodarski,

:27:08.:27:09.

broadcaster and editor of Dagens Nyheter, a liberal-leaning

:27:10.:27:11.

I asked him what the mood was in Sweden tonight.

:27:12.:27:19.

Tonight people, I think, feel a sense of they want

:27:20.:27:21.

We also saw that in the afternoon, an outpouring of support to each

:27:22.:27:25.

other, with transportation, with letting in people

:27:26.:27:27.

That was also part of the reaction today.

:27:28.:27:31.

I mean, we have seen events of this kind,

:27:32.:27:34.

I mean, very close to this, in Berlin, in Paris,

:27:35.:27:36.

Clearly it looks like a terror incident, and it bears resemblance

:27:37.:27:47.

to what we've seen in other places in Europe.

:27:48.:27:49.

We can talk about it before it happens, but when it happens,

:27:50.:27:53.

it's very dramatic, and you can never be fully prepared for that.

:27:54.:28:03.

But do you think this will contribute to a sense

:28:04.:28:05.

of uncertainty about the direction that Sweden is taking?

:28:06.:28:09.

I think it's too early to draw a conclusion like that.

:28:10.:28:12.

It will definitely affect our political discourse.

:28:13.:28:14.

If it affects our way of life, I'm not that sure.

:28:15.:28:16.

We actually, we had a terror incident in 2010, a suicide bomber

:28:17.:28:19.

No-one was killed at that time except the suicide bomber,

:28:20.:28:23.

so it was not the first time that terror strikes in Stockholm.

:28:24.:28:41.

We know that Donald Trump made some comment about Sweden

:28:42.:28:44.

and the difficulties it was having, and there was a certain sensitive

:28:45.:28:47.

I mean, everybody in Sweden noted that he said Sweden was this problem

:28:48.:28:51.

country that had let too many migrants in.

:28:52.:28:56.

I just wonder whether those words will be echoing to some extent

:28:57.:28:58.

around Sweden this evening and people will feel

:28:59.:29:00.

frustrated to some extent that the President said that.

:29:01.:29:08.

From some corners in society we will definitely hear that.

:29:09.:29:11.

What Donald Trump did was to spread false information

:29:12.:29:13.

about what was happening in Sweden, the day before he was talking.

:29:14.:29:18.

But we'll see who is behind this, if there is any link to immigration,

:29:19.:29:21.

or to refugees, or the situation in Syria, who takes responsibility

:29:22.:29:24.

I think it is too early tonight to draw conclusions

:29:25.:29:33.

about what we can - who is really behind this.

:29:34.:29:35.

Does it matter who it is, that is the perpetrator?

:29:36.:29:43.

We had acts of terror from the right-wing in Sweden as well.

:29:44.:29:50.

It was not that widely reported throughout the world but we have

:29:51.:29:55.

Jihadism is a serious problem in Europe, and Sweden

:29:56.:29:59.

Let's wait and see what this really is.

:30:00.:30:02.

The perpetrator or the perpetrators might still be at large,

:30:03.:30:04.

Peter Wolodarski, Thank you very much.

:30:05.:30:19.

Lovely weekend in store for many of us.

:30:20.:30:37.

It'll start off a bit chilly on Saturday morning,

:30:38.:30:39.

but it will warm up very quickly in the sunshine, and as you can see,

:30:40.:30:43.