Episode 6 Nolan Live


Episode 6

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For the first time ever on this show, we'll be broadcasting

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live, right across Ireland - teaming up with RTE's Prime Time

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programme to debate the big talking points and hear views from packed

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Hello there. Welcome to the show. An extended programme.

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Later we'll be hearing what our audiences in Dublin and Belfast

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have to say about some of the political and social issues

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Are we poles apart or is there much common ground beyond the border?

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To help us gauge if the politicians are in step with the

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popular feelings on these issues, the BBC and RTE have commissioned

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a cross-border survey asking about the issues that matter to you.

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Some of those results are a real eye-opener.

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We will use them to inform the discussion tonight. Should be

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interesting. Lead is head over to Miriam O'Callaghan at RTE. -- let

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us. We are now live on

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BBC Northern Ireland and on RTE, with Miriam O'Callaghan

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in the Prime Time studio in Dublin. It is a pleasure to be linking up in

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this unique collaboration. We will hear from contributors north and

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south of the border as well as revealing results of our specially

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commissioned cross-border survey. Let us get stuck in.

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Let's have a look at who we've got with us here in Belfast tonight.

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The DUP's Arlene Foster, Northern Ireland's Finance Minister.

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Claire Hanna from the SDLP and the Alliance Party's David Ford,

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Sinn Fein will be joining the panel in Dublin.

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And, of course, we've got a studio full of folk who have plenty to

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We will start off with you. Conor? I was hoping to find out what

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percentage of people north and south would be in favour or against a

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united Ireland? It would be interesting. You are about to see

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that and a lot more. Alex Kane, what do you think will be surprising?

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What are you hoping to establish? For the past ten years there has

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been censored Northern Ireland politicians in the Assembly are

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distant from the electorate so it will be interesting to see,

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particularly on the social and ethical issues, if they are out of

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step and then it comes to same-sex marriage and so one, you will find a

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comfortable majority in Northern Ireland are far more liberal than

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the politicians believe. We are about to find out. Miriam? I will go

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to the audience. Ian Morgan, what are you expecting? What is your

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view? I feel very passionately about the reunification of the country, I

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was brought up in the border area of North Monaghan and had a profound

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affect on my youth and the community and we had effectively a Berlin Wall

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from 1972 until the Good Friday Agreement with neighbours torn apart

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and we have the British Army coming into the community and the trenches,

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basically, that split the half and May one recollections were playing

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in these trenches, they were like the moon but the old record I

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realised this was petition in my own community. Thank you for that.

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Hannah O'Sullivan, you order number of Fine Gael? My personal view is

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that I feel that Northern Ireland should be an independent state and

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not part of any other territorial. I feel that if Northern Ireland

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continues to become part of the UK, there will be issues and if it

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becomes part of a united Ireland, there will be issues. I lived in

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London from the mid-19 70s until the 1990s and I sort of felt what it was

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like to be an Irish person with an Irish accent, leading through the

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Troubles in Northern Ireland... OK, thank you. I will introduce you to

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the panel, Jimmy Dylan Hunt, Brandon Smith, from Fianna Fail. Pearson

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Bertie from Sinn Fein. Pat Rabbitte from the Labour Party. Jimmy

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Ferriter, professor of Irish history at UCD. And Susan McKay, author and

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journalist. As we said, we had a survey to get an idea of how people

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feel, it was conducted by behaviour and attitudes for RTE and BBC

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Northern Ireland over done two weeks last month. You would remember this

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was during the weeks of instability at Stormont. Just over 2000 days to

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face interviews were conducted and 1029 in the Republic and an thousand

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and 12 in Northern Ireland with a margin of error of 3%. Let us start

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with the results. We asked how people felt Northern Ireland should

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be governed in the short to medium term...

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35% wanted the current situation to the name. Slightly more of people

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said they would like to see Northern Ireland unified with the site. Some

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people said, I don't know or they clicked other. One interesting point

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is, more people in the Republic favour an arrangement that involves

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Northern Ireland remaining in the UK.

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The same question in Northern Ireland got a bigger proportion

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in favour of remaining part of the UK when you add those two options.

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Only 13% of those surveyed wanted Northern

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Ireland to unify with the Republic in the short to medium term.

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If we drill down into the Northern Ireland figures, the results paint

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As you might expect, there's more support for a united

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Ireland among people who describe themselves as Catholic or brought up

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But what's interesting is that by adding those two first options -

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devolution and direct rule - we see that just over half of

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Catholics surveyed chose UK options in the short to medium term.

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While almost half of protestants, 49%, want a devolved government, 30%

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want Northern Ireland to be governed by direct rule from Westminster.

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Among Protestants and people brought up in a Protestant background that

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we surveyed, look how low the level of support for a United Ireland is.

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We also ask people if they would like to see a united Ireland in

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their own lifetime and there is a dramatic change.

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That is much higher than the 36% in the short to medium-term. In

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Northern Ireland... Again, much higher than the 13% in the short to

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medium term. And look at the don't know... Both North and South. The

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percentage undecided is significant. In terms of Northern Ireland,

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there is no big surprise 57% of Catholics want a united

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Ireland in their lifetime compared We thought we would ask all

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attention is what they make of the findings. Pearse Doherty, I need to

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put this to you, North or South, if a majority of people want to see a

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united Ireland in the short to medium term, what was the campaign

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all about? medium term, what was the campaign

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all about? If you look at the figures, people must determine what

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short-termist is an very few people would want a united Ireland in the

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short-term because of that any discussion or any talk between all

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the sections of society, it would create instability and problems.

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When you look at the long-term figures, it is very positive, when

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you exclude don't know, for the 1% in the North want a united Ireland

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in their own lifetime as opposed to 59% that tonight and in the south, a

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majority wants a united Ireland in their own lifetime. But you must

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accept, are you not surprised that a majority of Catholics in the short

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to medium-term in Northern Ireland don't want a united Ireland? No,

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what I am not surprised about at this stage, that is not the

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question, any short-term, do they want to see that without that

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transition and plan in terms of what I united Ireland would look like?

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What type of constitution or structures... They want to remain

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part of the UK. The question you're asking is not that Sinn Fein is

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presenting in terms of having a united Ireland joining the six

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counties with the 26 counties, what we were involved in is a new Ireland

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that is inclusive and that will happen with dialogue between all

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individuals and that is why we can see the figures dramatically

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changing... The figures in Northern Ireland, only a small majority, 57%,

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of Catholics want a united Ireland in their lifetime so how could you

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ever go about us winning the Protestant population that they

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would want that? Since you only have a very small majority in the

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Catholic opposition? I don't like talking in relation to religion and

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when you look at the population of the North, when you exclude don't

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know, for the 1% at this point in time want to see a united Ireland in

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their lifetime and I compare that to the Scottish referendum and the

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Scottish voted, for the 5% for independence, one year before the

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debate, 13 opinion polls show that support was less than 30%, we want

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debate, there is no debate at this point, what would happen if we got

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rid of back-to-back services and the dynamics of the economy? Arlene

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Foster is in the Nolan Live studio. What do you make of what Pearse

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Doherty was saying? All the wrong questions were asked and we should

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exclude don't know? For me, this is a very positive opinion poll, it

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shows that the union is secure and people are comfortable within the

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union in Northern Ireland and I think that we should remember this,

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this has been taken at a time when devolution has been going through

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some difficult months and can you imagine what the result would have

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been evolution was working properly? I would not get too smug. While the

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majority of Catholics might be happy in the UK, remember, this is just

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one survey, they are not voting for you in the election? They are not

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voting for unionist parties and maybe that is because you are

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banging on about flags every day and night and identity and not about the

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real-life issues that actually matter to people in this country?

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That is why that survey should be worrying. It is very reassuring for

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me. They will not vote for you. It is you that banks on a lot about

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flags and emblems, if you want me to talk about economic holiday... I

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have said this on a number of locations bus stop be graduated

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response was a long time ago. If you want me to talk about economics and

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education, I am happy to. Everyone is. It is a legitimate question, why

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are Catholics reluctant, according to the survey, we know that

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Catholics are happy to remain in the UK but we only reluctant to vote for

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parties like yours? That is a challenge from a party and a

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challenge for other parties. Traditionally, they have voted for

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nationalists parties because they identify with nationalist parties in

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recent perhaps Catholic issues and abortion and same-sex marriage and

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we're going to talk about that later on. What are you doing wrong? How

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can you reach out to those people? Were not doing much wrong when the

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poll tells you that the majority of people living in Northern Ireland

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are happy to be part of the UK. That is very good poll for unionists so

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don't try to turn this around as a negative for unionism. More reaction

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in Dublin. What hope do we have of united Ireland when people say that

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unionists should go back to Britain? Firstly, it will be decided in

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Northern Ireland and when you look back at the Good Friday Agreement,

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it was clearly stated that Google only have a united Ireland if we

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have a majority of people in Northern Ireland deciding on that so

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when you look at the result of this survey, it does state clearly that

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what the people in Northern Ireland want at this moment in time, both

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nationalists and unionists, and that is devolution and that is when the

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talks at the moment are so important and that is why it is so important

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to implement fully the Good Friday Agreement and also why the storm and

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high stocks are so important at this moment. Does this show that at the

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end of the day, all the people who said the petition back when would

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become the defect to reality and it would be impossible to enter this?

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This survey indicates that is what we are looking at? It is not short

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and medium-term. That is what we have two address. We have two

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progress in ways we can share this island between us. There are signs

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in Northern Ireland in the relationship between North and South

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which is healthy at the moment. And it is proven to be economically

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viable. There is tourism and the relationship is very good. I think

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it gives us a clear message that this survey, I welcome it,

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devolution is now what is wanted in Northern Ireland in this moment in

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time and me -- we must work it. It is an indication a majority of

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people north and south in the source -- short to medium term do not want

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it and you seem to be aiming for an ideal that the people in the short

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to medium term are out of touch. We have always had a founding value

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where we continue to work in that respect and I think we need to make

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the border irrelevant. We have the wherewithal with the workings of the

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Good Friday Agreement, St Andrews and the Gwent agreements to have

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greater economic Corporation in North and South. We have the

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opportunity to grow the economy in the north and south. We have not

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maximised the potential of the Good Friday Agreement. Politically, it is

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relatively recently that we have been given the mechanism that should

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the people in the north and South decide on a united Ireland, that

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mechanism is there because we changed the constitution. In the

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agreement that was overwhelmingly approved by the electorate north and

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south in May, 1998, by more than 94% of the people that voted, more than

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70% in the North. We have been given the mechanism that if the people

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decide they want a united Ireland, that provision is in our

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Constitution. Let's leave it there for the moment. That replaced the

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1920 and 21 agreements. We are going to leave it there and go back to

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Stephen Nolan. He is going to talk to his audience. Let's see what we

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think already. Go ahead. So far, what has happened is all this survey

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has highlighted is that it is time for a debate. It is on a united

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Ireland. To square the circle, cover social issues, how are you going to

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pay for it, run the country? I've heard Pearse Doherty here. Talking

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about why that vote was not great is there has not really been a

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discussion about it in the short and medium term. What is Sinn Fein doing

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every day our peer? Why are they not talking about it every day of the

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week? Of course they are. It is not reaching the people. All that survey

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has pointed out is most people will air on the side of caution. Better

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the devil you know than the devil you do not. If you put all your

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cards on the table and show everybody, north and south, I am

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sure there are people in Cork that wants to know how much it is going

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to cost. It is pretty much the same way as the hard done south regarding

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the bailout and bringing it back and labelled regrowing the economy. We

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will look at taxes and how that influences and influenced people in

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the survey on that question later. Stay with us for that. Yes, go

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ahead. That is you, go ahead. I think we are hearing the same tired

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question. What would have been interesting if we had a scenario, if

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the UK leads the European Union, does that make a united Ireland

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nearer or further away? That could be a fairly important reason for

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people in Northern Ireland voting either for leaving the European

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Union or actually voting against it. For me personally, if we leave the

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European Union, it would affect my bus cars, train pass. We do not

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know. These are big issues not even being thought about. We have got the

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same tired questions. Do the people in the South think it would be

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better for the UK to be in the European Union? So that they can

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share the services that they already share in Europe? Man in the white

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shirt. We should accept that the question is settled and get away

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from these issues and move to green issues. What question is settled?

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The survey made it very clear... In the UK for ever more. I you serious?

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Sinn Fein cannot have a political position and argue for it? We can

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argue for it but we should accept that the question is settled. Move

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on for how long? Move on to the issue that matters. I am stating the

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patiently obvious, a united Ireland is their political objective. You

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are saying move on! Focus on lives. Look at the waiting lists, the gay

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blood and, these people affect us as opposed to ideology. I want Northern

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Ireland issues to be debated in stead of this session again and

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again, it is silly. This is just a survey. It is not saying what every

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single person in Ireland and Northern Ireland things. It is a

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statistically robust survey. Miriam, you have some results. I will pick

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up with my audience. That gentleman there are saying we need to move on,

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what do you think, Annie? I think we need to work in the area that has

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been sketched out by the Good Friday Agreement. Which is about increasing

:21:29.:21:32.

cooperation and friendship between the people north and south. That is

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a big enough task for our generation. A united Ireland is a

:21:38.:21:43.

nice aspiration. Are the people of the Republic prepared to make

:21:44.:21:46.

sacrifices in terms of taxation, finance, social harmony, to bring

:21:47.:21:52.

900,000 Northern Unionists into a united state? I have my doubts.

:21:53.:21:56.

Let's try without forcing anybody to a particular destination, try and

:21:57.:22:01.

become better friends, north and south, on the basis of that we can

:22:02.:22:05.

talk about constitutional future later. We are actually going to ask

:22:06.:22:13.

questions about taxation. What have you heard so far? Do we need to move

:22:14.:22:17.

on? Has this survey surprised you so far? I think this supreme irony of

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the discussion that we are having in my opinion is that the culture of

:22:24.:22:30.

the unionist population would be better served under a Dublin

:22:31.:22:33.

government than would be served under... How do you say that? It is

:22:34.:22:41.

down to population. The unionist population would be just shy of 20%

:22:42.:22:45.

of the population of this island. They currently make up 1% of the UK.

:22:46.:22:51.

Unionist MPs in Westminster do not have a voice and are not listened

:22:52.:22:56.

to. If they were in the door, they would be properly in a coalition

:22:57.:23:01.

government... I think a lot would disagree with you. OK, we are going

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to give you more salt. We asked another question, just to try and

:23:07.:23:11.

test how strong support for a united Ireland in the long-term is. First,

:23:12.:23:17.

a reminder. In the Republic, 66% said they favoured a united Ireland

:23:18.:23:21.

in their lifetime. If it went paying less tax, support increased to 73%.

:23:22.:23:30.

If there were to be no change in the level of tax, 63% would be in

:23:31.:23:38.

favour. But if a united Ireland meant people in the Republic had to

:23:39.:23:44.

pay more tax, supporting the survey. Magically to 31%.

:23:45.:23:49.

30% favoured a united Ireland in their lifetime. But if it meant

:23:50.:23:57.

paying less tax, support from respondents in Northern Ireland is

:23:58.:24:02.

flat in the margin of error. If they were to be no change in the level of

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tax, 22% would be in favour. Look at this. If a united Ireland meant

:24:08.:24:13.

people in Northern Ireland had to pay more tax, support again falls

:24:14.:24:16.

dramatically, 11%. Pearse Doherty, even for people in

:24:17.:24:28.

their own lifetime wanting a united Ireland, they are not willing to pay

:24:29.:24:34.

money for that. I believe in a united Ireland in my heart and my

:24:35.:24:37.

head. I think it will make a stronger economy. It is not what I

:24:38.:24:43.

asked. That issue does not arise in my view. What we will have is the

:24:44.:24:50.

synergy of 6.4 million people on the island. We will get rid of two

:24:51.:24:54.

currencies and exchange rates and employment laws and have a stronger

:24:55.:24:57.

economy has a result. You will not need more tax. Two have services,

:24:58.:25:03.

two transport systems, you would have more efficiencies... We can

:25:04.:25:07.

argue all night about whether that will happen. People have a fear and

:25:08.:25:11.

would see they might have to pay more money if there was to be a

:25:12.:25:15.

united Ireland. This survey indicates they would not pick that

:25:16.:25:21.

option. People do not like to pay more tax. That is understandable.

:25:22.:25:25.

That is the point I am making. We need to have a real debate. That is

:25:26.:25:30.

why Sinn Fein had called for a Green paper on Irish unity. What do people

:25:31.:25:33.

that share the aspirations want to do to stop that discussion? How

:25:34.:25:37.

would we plan? What type of structure and rights would we have

:25:38.:25:43.

so everybody had a inclusive society? What constitution,

:25:44.:25:45.

parliament? These questions need to be asked and they were addressed in

:25:46.:25:50.

Scotland and Catalonia. You see a surge of people that move in the

:25:51.:25:55.

direction of independence, or unity, in my view in the Irish Republic. I

:25:56.:26:01.

think you are going to come in now, Stephen. You are asking questions

:26:02.:26:07.

and I am looking for answers. Here is the big sell, Christmas has come

:26:08.:26:12.

early, I will give you one minute, sell it to me. Why would a united

:26:13.:26:16.

island that everybody watching across this island, sell it in terms

:26:17.:26:22.

of the numbing benefits, go! We would get rid of two currencies,

:26:23.:26:26.

exchange rates. How much would we say? You build the economy and if

:26:27.:26:31.

you look at the last European country that reunified in terms of

:26:32.:26:38.

Germany, the GDP of East and West increased when it was reunified. You

:26:39.:26:44.

will get rid of that. How much would you say? Are their numbers behind

:26:45.:26:47.

this? No doubt you have thought it through, sell this denied. It would

:26:48.:26:51.

benefit us economic lead by how much? There are no numbers? What do

:26:52.:26:59.

you mean? ! The British Exchequer would release the numbers in

:27:00.:27:03.

terms... Also in terms of the income that was raised, been others are not

:27:04.:27:12.

accurate... Let her speak to you. It is ?9.8 billion, we receive in one

:27:13.:27:20.

year. He is asking us to leave an economy of 60 million people and go

:27:21.:27:24.

into an economy of 6.4 million and that will somehow make it a sense

:27:25.:27:29.

for the people of Northern Ireland. I hope you are not spinning me and

:27:30.:27:36.

that this is accurate! Encase people did not get that, you are we get 9.8

:27:37.:27:44.

billion over and above. That is the difference between the taxes... That

:27:45.:27:49.

the figures from her Majesty 's Treasury. They are available. I was

:27:50.:27:56.

going to say 10 billion. I will not fight for 9.8. Does Sinn Fein accept

:27:57.:28:02.

these figures? Let me tell her what the figures are, 17.7 billion euros,

:28:03.:28:08.

the Treasury claims is spent on the north and the British Treasury in

:28:09.:28:11.

their own report in 2012 claims the income from the North is 14.1

:28:12.:28:21.

Stirling. What is missing in that... Can I ask you a question, Jimmy? Is

:28:22.:28:28.

it your position, we have not spoken before, good evening, Jimmy, is it

:28:29.:28:33.

the position of the Irish government for a united Ireland at this moment

:28:34.:28:37.

in time in the current economic climate? That is hypothetical,

:28:38.:28:45.

obviously. It is a big question. Do not give me hypothetical! Can the

:28:46.:28:48.

Irish government afford a united Ireland at this moment in time # yes

:28:49.:28:50.

or no? No, really. CROWD CHEERS... There is nothing

:28:51.:29:10.

hypothetical about it? You cannot afford a united Ireland. How short

:29:11.:29:16.

are you? Couple of quid, couple of million, couple of Ilion? When you

:29:17.:29:21.

look at something like tourism has an example of how a body can foster

:29:22.:29:28.

creativity, you will see it is very successful... How far away from

:29:29.:29:35.

affordability are we? Not how much tourism is costing. Are we light

:29:36.:29:41.

years away? Is it high in the sky, or close? There are two aspects.

:29:42.:29:47.

Affordability and with the economy going, we could arrive but it would

:29:48.:29:50.

be a long journey but we could arrive there. Then there is

:29:51.:29:55.

consent. Without majority consent in Northern Ireland, it will not

:29:56.:29:59.

happen. The feedback that I am getting and it is obvious, it will

:30:00.:30:04.

not be forthcoming from the Nationalists, or Unionists for a

:30:05.:30:11.

long time. Can we really not afford a united Ireland? Is that it? Yes,

:30:12.:30:17.

we can afford it if people are prepared to pay an additional two US

:30:18.:30:23.

sees, universal social charge brings in about 4 billion. Two of them

:30:24.:30:29.

would manage for one year to pay the cheque from her Majesty's

:30:30.:30:34.

government. But you do not have a normal functioning economy in

:30:35.:30:37.

Northern Ireland. We have a public sector employment economy. You do

:30:38.:30:41.

not have a wealth creating sector that is adequate to make a

:30:42.:30:47.

contribution retaining services at the level to which people in

:30:48.:30:50.

Northern Ireland have become accustomed.

:30:51.:30:57.

People in the Republic of gone three years of an and perhaps it is based

:30:58.:31:04.

on time and at another time, people might be willing to pay more tax and

:31:05.:31:10.

maybe pay an additional amount for the dream of a united Ireland? I

:31:11.:31:15.

think the Irish people, some of us and it is reflected in poetry and

:31:16.:31:22.

literature, they are dreamers, but generally, people are concerned

:31:23.:31:25.

about the tax they must pay and even people who are not so young, when

:31:26.:31:31.

asked about, in my lifetime, they will tend to say with their heart,

:31:32.:31:35.

yes, I would like to see a united Ireland. When it comes down to the

:31:36.:31:42.

dignity of paying for this, that is a separate issue. The aspiration to

:31:43.:31:48.

unity is enshrined in the Belfast agreement and this is not a debate

:31:49.:31:51.

that we need, it is cooperation, when YouTube killed on that

:31:52.:31:58.

agreement and deal with issues like agriculture and energy and health.

:31:59.:32:08.

With Synergy... I will stay talking to you for the moment, I am handing

:32:09.:32:12.

back to Stephen. He will stick with his panel and audience. I will be

:32:13.:32:17.

back so do not go away. I am enjoying this! We will be back with

:32:18.:32:22.

Miriam later on to hear from the Dublin audience about the topical

:32:23.:32:36.

issues. Right... Mark Devenport is here. The Irish government has said

:32:37.:32:42.

on live television that they cannot afford a united Ireland? Whenever I

:32:43.:32:47.

say or the panel, this programme will be remembered as the no, really

:32:48.:32:57.

answer, he did not take refuge in being hypothetical, in days gone by,

:32:58.:33:02.

people would not say that, he has just done that. What is the

:33:03.:33:07.

implication? It spells out what a lot of people already know, the

:33:08.:33:10.

reason those figures for the short to medium term, people aspiring to

:33:11.:33:16.

that, it is so much less than longer term aspiration, people are

:33:17.:33:20.

concerned about any change to the status quo, in terms of political

:33:21.:33:26.

damage and security and economic league and that is concerning on

:33:27.:33:30.

both sides of the border. What else do you pick up from that poll? We

:33:31.:33:35.

can look at some of these figures. The attitudes towards a united

:33:36.:33:42.

Ireland. We have a different attitudes. Catholics and

:33:43.:33:46.

Protestants, devolution, picking up as the most popular option on both

:33:47.:33:52.

sides. Quite strong support for direct rule within the Protestant

:33:53.:33:56.

community but we must remember that the timing of this was whenever

:33:57.:34:00.

devolution was at a very low point with rolling resignations so that

:34:01.:34:06.

perhaps explains that sense of disillusionment. And on the Catholic

:34:07.:34:11.

side, if you are together those figures, it is slightly surprising

:34:12.:34:13.

that you have majority support for UK options. Doug Beattie, your party

:34:14.:34:21.

might be responsible for that direct rule statistic? You're messing

:34:22.:34:27.

around, you walked out? Destabilising the Executive and look

:34:28.:34:31.

at that? I would completely disagree. We made a very so sink

:34:32.:34:41.

decision based on a murder and a dysfunctional Executive and we

:34:42.:34:44.

walked out and that was it. The Executive carried on, the ministry

:34:45.:34:50.

post was still there, the Executive would have carried on and the Ulster

:34:51.:34:53.

unionist Party... You're not worried about that direct rule finding? 30%,

:34:54.:35:00.

look at that, in the Protestant background said direct rule? That

:35:01.:35:07.

does not concern you? Of course it does, our party once devolution, we

:35:08.:35:11.

set up those institutions, we nearly spent ourselves to get devolution so

:35:12.:35:17.

of course that concerns us but we have said this again and again, this

:35:18.:35:27.

was taken in the middle of an in out post. We did not jump back in,

:35:28.:35:32.

somebody else could have filled that post. David Ford, any reactions? It

:35:33.:35:39.

is not surprising that the wrist wrong support for the religion north

:35:40.:35:43.

and south, Catholic and Protestant, because in 1998 what we got in the

:35:44.:35:50.

Good Friday Agreement and Arlene Foster might want to refine this

:35:51.:35:54.

with St Andrews but what we have got is recognition of the three sets of

:35:55.:35:57.

relationships, partnership in Northern Ireland, north, south and

:35:58.:36:03.

east, west. That is the only copper mines which will ever get broad

:36:04.:36:07.

acceptance in the future and it is quite clear that is accepted by

:36:08.:36:11.

representatives in Dublin and also by the clear majority of the people.

:36:12.:36:16.

Claire Hanna, your party once a united Ireland. Is this survey a

:36:17.:36:24.

kick in the teeth? Our party does believe that a united Ireland would

:36:25.:36:27.

be greater than the sum of its parts but people had every right to ask

:36:28.:36:31.

that improve their lives. Look at how people are thinking. I would

:36:32.:36:36.

agree, there is much more that needs to be done to show how services can

:36:37.:36:43.

work. But ultimately, and our primary project, is to make Northern

:36:44.:36:46.

Ireland work as nationalists should not be afraid of that. Do you know

:36:47.:36:54.

what? It is close to December, I am fat enough to be Santa Claus. Here

:36:55.:36:59.

is a Christmas present. You have a prominent Orangemen, Mervyn Gibson,

:37:00.:37:06.

cell a united Ireland to him. He is entitled to ask. Tell him. Sell it!

:37:07.:37:13.

Services, if you have a hospital in all the gelding or Daisy Lowe, that

:37:14.:37:19.

catchment area is wider, but we are right to design services as a new

:37:20.:37:23.

project and you are right to ask... You are selling. Fewer hospitals?

:37:24.:37:32.

Nationalism is not chest beating and music, it is about a new project.

:37:33.:37:37.

This is a big cell? I will ask again... Selby top three benefits to

:37:38.:37:44.

a united Ireland because the people surveyed here are not getting that.

:37:45.:37:50.

What is your first eight point? This is a small island, it does not make

:37:51.:37:53.

sense to have two sets of everything. People will get improved

:37:54.:37:59.

services. What are they? What I am selling right now... If I walk into

:38:00.:38:05.

a car showroom and people say, look at this car, it is beautiful, look

:38:06.:38:11.

at those seats, leather, lovely, it costs this. Give me that they'd take

:38:12.:38:18.

it seal. What is the number one thing that will make people think,

:38:19.:38:23.

my life has been transformed. Nationalists are not afraid to say

:38:24.:38:26.

that at the moment we are selling making Northern Ireland work. You

:38:27.:38:32.

cannot do it? I have never said that tomorrow we will vote this through,

:38:33.:38:37.

we must reconcile people here and people on the side have the right to

:38:38.:38:42.

ask, they have just had an economic near death experience and Jimmy was

:38:43.:38:48.

right to talk about that. We were looking over the statistics on a

:38:49.:38:53.

united Ireland in the lifetime and it is a very big sell to sell this

:38:54.:39:00.

immediately and it will obviously be a longer term project but you would

:39:01.:39:03.

have to say that on these figures, 30% supporting united Ireland, the

:39:04.:39:08.

Secretary of State will not be calling for the border poll any time

:39:09.:39:14.

soon. Trying to stabilise things seems to be the only real goal in

:39:15.:39:17.

time. That's a sense

:39:18.:39:19.

of political attitudes in Northern Are those fault lines repeated

:39:20.:39:21.

when we look at how people here Well, 44% of people in

:39:22.:39:25.

our NI survey said they're British. But there's a significant group who

:39:26.:39:37.

think of themselves as Northern Irish - 22%. Look at this

:39:38.:39:47.

difference in how people view Those outside Belfast are more than

:39:48.:39:50.

twice as likely to refer to themselves as

:39:51.:39:55.

Northern Irish than in the city, 25% Interesting. Well, the Northern or

:39:56.:40:18.

as identity has come up in recent times, the new kid on the block, as

:40:19.:40:24.

it were. It is hard to know exactly what people mean by that, it is

:40:25.:40:30.

ambiguous, different things can mean different things to different people

:40:31.:40:34.

and there has been some research suggesting it is maybe not such a

:40:35.:40:37.

very strong identity, it perhaps changes over time, you might get

:40:38.:40:43.

Catholics identifying as Northern Ireland and things happen when the

:40:44.:40:46.

Union flag protests, maybe less so. One thing that seems to be the case

:40:47.:40:50.

as a people who identify as Northern Ireland tend to know people from the

:40:51.:40:57.

other side and they mix socially and perhaps this is where we see the

:40:58.:41:00.

rest of Northern Ireland being stronger than Belfast, perhaps from

:41:01.:41:05.

being closer to the border? Is that significant? What is significant is

:41:06.:41:11.

that 55 people living in the North but not identify as British. They

:41:12.:41:15.

identify as Irish, Northern Irish or other. And that does mirror that

:41:16.:41:22.

figure looking back to... That is not necessarily true. How do you

:41:23.:41:30.

think of yourself first? First and foremost as British? If you look at

:41:31.:41:34.

the previous statistics, the number of people who supported devolution

:41:35.:41:40.

plus the number supporting a united Ireland, 65% of the Catholic

:41:41.:41:44.

population, if the 1% of the Protestant population and what that

:41:45.:41:48.

means is that the vast majority of people living in the North do not

:41:49.:41:50.

support being governed by Westminster. Mervyn was Mike people

:41:51.:41:55.

would describe themselves as Irish and they have written the passports

:41:56.:41:59.

so there is ambiguity about that question but I can see why a

:42:00.:42:04.

significant number in Belfast classify themselves as British

:42:05.:42:07.

because people are still living along interface walls and they

:42:08.:42:10.

identify with the Roman particular community. Arlene Foster, are you

:42:11.:42:16.

first and foremost British or Northern Irish? If I was answering

:42:17.:42:22.

the question in the census, I would say British but I would consider

:42:23.:42:25.

myself as Northern Irish. And British. Ever consider yourself

:42:26.:42:32.

Irish? Not really, Northern Irish. Who would you cheer for in the

:42:33.:42:35.

rugby? Ireland, we have Northern Ireland players! Sometimes. Don't be

:42:36.:42:43.

afraid to say that. I am not afraid, I don't think anybody would say that

:42:44.:42:46.

Arlene Foster is afraid of saying that. Your Irish when watching

:42:47.:42:52.

rugby? We have some fabulous players from Ulster. And you know that. What

:42:53.:42:56.

about you? British or Northern Irish? I have always been Irish. And

:42:57.:43:04.

I am also British. I have no issues with that. And I am very proud of my

:43:05.:43:12.

identity. OK. She is far better looking than me, we need to head

:43:13.:43:24.

back to marry and RTE. -- million. -- Miriam. She is waiting for us.

:43:25.:43:30.

Right, as you can see we are broadcasting

:43:31.:43:32.

together live across Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic.

:43:33.:43:35.

This time round we'll be concentrating on some of the key

:43:36.:43:37.

What do people North and South think about same-sex

:43:38.:43:41.

And do we have much in common with those living just across the border?

:43:42.:43:52.

We thought we would test what people in Dublin and Belfast really know

:43:53.:43:58.

about each other, do you recognise any of these faces? Enda Kenny, the

:43:59.:44:15.

Taoiseach. Looks like George Bush. That is the Irish President. People

:44:16.:44:21.

think he is from Titanic. The Taoiseach, Enda Kenny. He is the

:44:22.:44:26.

minister, the headman. Peter Robinson. He is the partner with

:44:27.:44:36.

Martin McGuinness? Peter Robinson. The First Minister. I know who he

:44:37.:44:43.

is. Carl Frampton. Carl Frampton. I do not know. Who is he? Oscar

:44:44.:44:49.

Pistorius? Rugby player? I don't know. Peter Taylor. -- Katie Taylor.

:44:50.:45:01.

Boxer. Katie Taylor. I don't know. Haven't got a clue. Nope. Miriam.

:45:02.:45:15.

Miriam O'Callaghan. I don't have a baldy. I know her face. Presenter? I

:45:16.:45:25.

do not know. Stephen Nolan! Everybody knows him! Others are we

:45:26.:45:33.

boy. Stephen Nolan. He is well fed, like myself. Is he a chef. John

:45:34.:45:37.

Daly? Stephen Nolan, Nolan Live? That man was fatter than me, I will

:45:38.:45:51.

tell you right now. I don't agree with what that

:45:52.:45:56.

man said about me at all. Anyway it's only a snapshot

:45:57.:45:59.

of opinion. How similar are we when it comes to

:46:00.:46:00.

the big social issues north Those of you watching in the south

:46:01.:46:05.

will know that same-sex marriage has been a huge issue culminating

:46:06.:46:11.

in an historic vote, becoming the first country in the world to adopt

:46:12.:46:13.

same-sex marriage by popular vote. Northern Ireland, by contrast,

:46:14.:46:19.

is the only part of the United Kingdom where same-sex

:46:20.:46:21.

marriage isn't available. But does that reflect what

:46:22.:46:23.

people think North and South? To get a sense of that,

:46:24.:46:30.

we asked how comfortable people would be if a close family member

:46:31.:46:32.

married someone of the same gender. A large majority, 67%,

:46:33.:46:37.

of people in the Republic said they'd be either fairly comfortable

:46:38.:46:43.

or very comfortable with it and that's broadly in line with

:46:44.:46:47.

the referendum earlier this year. In our survey,

:46:48.:46:49.

one in five people in the Republic say they'd still be either fairly or

:46:50.:46:52.

very uncomfortable with it. So that's what's happening

:46:53.:46:55.

in the Republic. What's Northern

:46:56.:46:57.

Ireland going to say? 64% percent are either fairly or

:46:58.:46:59.

very comfortable with the idea of having a same-sex marriage

:47:00.:47:15.

in the family. Actually,

:47:16.:47:16.

that's similar to the Republic. We've ignored the people who said

:47:17.:47:18.

don't know, but that still leaves nearly a quarter of people

:47:19.:47:21.

in Northern Ireland who are fairly We also asked how people would feel

:47:22.:47:35.

if a close family member married somebody with a different religious

:47:36.:47:42.

background. In the south, the survey showed a very high level of comfort

:47:43.:47:47.

with marriage between people of a different skin colour, mirrored in

:47:48.:47:51.

Northern Ireland. It is similar with attitudes towards marriage, between

:47:52.:47:57.

religious backgrounds in the family. 79% were broadly comfortable with it

:47:58.:48:00.

in the south and Northern Ireland appeared a little bit more accepting

:48:01.:48:07.

of afferent fate 's, with 84%. Northern Ireland seemed slightly

:48:08.:48:10.

more comfortable with these issues. -- different faith. You carried out

:48:11.:48:18.

this survey, Martha. Do you think there might be a reason for that? We

:48:19.:48:24.

do. We think the majority of people in the North with a faith, are

:48:25.:48:29.

either Catholic or Protestant. In the south, 85% declare themselves

:48:30.:48:35.

catholic in the last census. The remaining 15%, there is a vast

:48:36.:48:37.

swathe of different religions and

:48:38.0:41:44

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