Browse content similar to Hillsborough - How They Buried the Truth. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
COMMENTATOR: And there are fans on the pitch here in the six yard area. | 0:00:02 | 0:00:05 | |
The referee's going to have to stop the game. | 0:00:05 | 0:00:07 | |
Tonight, new evidence about the cover-up over Hillsborough. | 0:00:07 | 0:00:11 | |
It was decided very early on, this is the way it is going to go, | 0:00:13 | 0:00:17 | |
we can't possibly be blamed, the police can't possibly be blamed. | 0:00:17 | 0:00:21 | |
With a new inquest ordered, | 0:00:23 | 0:00:25 | |
pictures never before broadcast reveal how Britain's | 0:00:25 | 0:00:28 | |
worst sporting disaster was allowed to happen. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:31 | |
-It's on yous boys. -It's not on. -It's all on yous now. | 0:00:31 | 0:00:35 | |
You are the eyes of the world. You've got to show this to everybody. | 0:00:35 | 0:00:39 | |
But the full story wasn't told, | 0:00:40 | 0:00:43 | |
and the truth was buried for a generation. | 0:00:43 | 0:00:46 | |
It was cut out by a public servant | 0:00:47 | 0:00:50 | |
who didn't want the rest of the world to see that evidence. | 0:00:50 | 0:00:53 | |
It is a disgrace. | 0:00:53 | 0:00:55 | |
Some witnesses were leaned on. | 0:00:55 | 0:00:58 | |
They've got their story straight. | 0:00:58 | 0:01:00 | |
If you keep talking in this way it's not going to do you any good. | 0:01:00 | 0:01:05 | |
Others were discredited. | 0:01:06 | 0:01:08 | |
He'd never been described as naive before. | 0:01:10 | 0:01:13 | |
In fact, he'd always been described as a very astute man | 0:01:13 | 0:01:17 | |
with a great deal of integrity. | 0:01:17 | 0:01:20 | |
It's a scandal that taints the political establishment... | 0:01:21 | 0:01:25 | |
I didn't get this thing right. | 0:01:26 | 0:01:28 | |
I got it wrong, and I can't turn the clock back. | 0:01:28 | 0:01:31 | |
..and justice was denied for the families of 96 people who died. | 0:01:32 | 0:01:37 | |
They used to say, "You're right, Anne, | 0:01:38 | 0:01:40 | |
"but you'll not beat the system." | 0:01:40 | 0:01:42 | |
How could anybody, as a decent human being, | 0:01:44 | 0:01:47 | |
put people through nearly 24 years and they knew? | 0:01:47 | 0:01:53 | |
I've been following Liverpool Football Club all my life. | 0:02:10 | 0:02:13 | |
I've watched them grow to become one of the world's biggest clubs | 0:02:13 | 0:02:17 | |
with an international following. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:18 | |
As a fan, the excitement you get | 0:02:20 | 0:02:22 | |
from being at the match is hard to beat. | 0:02:22 | 0:02:25 | |
We were just as keen back in the 1980s | 0:02:25 | 0:02:28 | |
on the day we all went over to Sheffield for another big match - | 0:02:28 | 0:02:31 | |
an FA Cup semi-final. | 0:02:31 | 0:02:33 | |
FANS CHANTING | 0:02:35 | 0:02:39 | |
Hillsborough, Sheffield, April 15th, 1989. | 0:02:40 | 0:02:44 | |
Liverpool had asked for more space at the ground because they had | 0:02:46 | 0:02:50 | |
more supporters than the opposition, Nottingham Forest. | 0:02:50 | 0:02:54 | |
But, on the advice of South Yorkshire Police, | 0:02:54 | 0:02:57 | |
the FA turned them down. | 0:02:57 | 0:02:59 | |
So, 24,000 of us were squeezed into the bottleneck | 0:02:59 | 0:03:03 | |
which was our entrance on Leppings Lane. | 0:03:03 | 0:03:05 | |
There was a mass of people outside the ground, | 0:03:07 | 0:03:09 | |
couldn't see the turnstiles, | 0:03:09 | 0:03:12 | |
and didn't really see any of the police, | 0:03:12 | 0:03:14 | |
and I was quite shocked. | 0:03:14 | 0:03:16 | |
Stephanie was 18, going to her first away game | 0:03:17 | 0:03:20 | |
with her older brother, Richard, and his girlfriend, Tracey. | 0:03:20 | 0:03:24 | |
I thought, maybe this is what it's like, maybe it's just | 0:03:24 | 0:03:27 | |
good policing at Liverpool ground, I don't know, | 0:03:27 | 0:03:29 | |
cos I'd not been away before. | 0:03:29 | 0:03:31 | |
It wasn't only fans like Stephanie who were concerned. | 0:03:33 | 0:03:36 | |
I was surprised at the lack of police officers | 0:03:37 | 0:03:40 | |
at that end of the ground. | 0:03:40 | 0:03:41 | |
PC Ray Powell was on plain clothes duty in the crowd that day. | 0:03:42 | 0:03:47 | |
There'd normally be more policemen forming queues, | 0:03:47 | 0:03:50 | |
making sure there was order? | 0:03:50 | 0:03:52 | |
Normally there would be a little more | 0:03:52 | 0:03:54 | |
of a police presence there. | 0:03:54 | 0:03:55 | |
Inside, the ground was full behind the goals. | 0:03:58 | 0:04:01 | |
The BBC's John Motson was rehearsing for that night's Match Of The Day. | 0:04:01 | 0:04:05 | |
It was 2:41. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:07 | |
JOHN MOTSON: Liverpool's faithful followers, | 0:04:09 | 0:04:11 | |
fed on success for 25 years, are at the Leppings Lane end. | 0:04:11 | 0:04:14 | |
They have 24,000 tickets and haven't seen their team lose | 0:04:14 | 0:04:18 | |
since New Year's Day. | 0:04:18 | 0:04:19 | |
The match commander was based in the police control box. | 0:04:22 | 0:04:26 | |
Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield | 0:04:26 | 0:04:28 | |
had never before handled a big game. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:31 | |
He had a good view of the Leppings Lane end, | 0:04:33 | 0:04:36 | |
and so did John Motson. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:37 | |
There's gaps, you know, in parts of the ground. | 0:04:39 | 0:04:42 | |
Well, you look at the Liverpool end, to the right of the goal. | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
There's hardly anybody on those steps. | 0:04:46 | 0:04:48 | |
No, to the right of there. | 0:04:48 | 0:04:50 | |
That's it, look down there. | 0:04:50 | 0:04:52 | |
Back then, supporters stood behind the goals, | 0:04:54 | 0:04:57 | |
the terrace divided into pens for crowd control. | 0:04:57 | 0:05:01 | |
But the police didn't direct fans into separate pens | 0:05:03 | 0:05:06 | |
to avoid overcrowding - they were left to find their own level. | 0:05:06 | 0:05:09 | |
It must have taken me 20 minutes to escape the crush outside, | 0:05:11 | 0:05:15 | |
but once through the turnstiles I was safe, | 0:05:15 | 0:05:18 | |
with a seat alongside the pitch in the North stand. | 0:05:18 | 0:05:21 | |
Jenny Hicks was in that stand, too. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:26 | |
She'd driven up from London with her husband and two daughters. | 0:05:26 | 0:05:30 | |
They'd gone to stand on the Leppings Lane terrace. | 0:05:31 | 0:05:34 | |
You can just glimpse the girls, Sarah and Vicky, | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
right behind the goal as the Liverpool team's announced. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:43 | |
It was getting more and more crowded. | 0:05:46 | 0:05:48 | |
And I started to become quite uncomfortable about it. | 0:05:50 | 0:05:54 | |
Knowing that my family could be there, | 0:05:54 | 0:05:56 | |
because I couldn't see them on the sides. | 0:05:56 | 0:05:59 | |
Her husband, Trevor, was in fact standing in a side pen. | 0:06:01 | 0:06:04 | |
He, too, began to worry as the crush behind the goal got worse. | 0:06:06 | 0:06:10 | |
I was looking over and starting to get anxious | 0:06:10 | 0:06:14 | |
about Sarah and Vicky. | 0:06:14 | 0:06:16 | |
I have a very vivid picture of an old-ish guy, | 0:06:16 | 0:06:19 | |
my sort of age now | 0:06:19 | 0:06:21 | |
in a grey suit with grey hair, | 0:06:21 | 0:06:24 | |
pinned up against the radial fence, looking very distressed. | 0:06:24 | 0:06:28 | |
After being told that lives were at risk outside, | 0:06:35 | 0:06:39 | |
Chief Superintendent Duckenfield gave the order to open Gate C, | 0:06:39 | 0:06:43 | |
a large exit gate. | 0:06:43 | 0:06:45 | |
Stephanie Jones, her brother, Richard, | 0:06:52 | 0:06:54 | |
and his girlfriend, Tracey, headed for Gate C. | 0:06:54 | 0:06:57 | |
We can just pick them out on police CCTV. | 0:06:59 | 0:07:02 | |
We were getting crushed outside. | 0:07:05 | 0:07:07 | |
So, when it was opened, we went through it into the clearing. | 0:07:08 | 0:07:13 | |
And then just proceeded at a normal walk | 0:07:14 | 0:07:17 | |
down in front of us, the only way we could see. | 0:07:17 | 0:07:20 | |
Down the tunnel. | 0:07:22 | 0:07:23 | |
In the past, when the central pens were full, | 0:07:26 | 0:07:29 | |
police had closed off the tunnel | 0:07:29 | 0:07:30 | |
and diverted supporters to the side pens. | 0:07:30 | 0:07:33 | |
Not today. | 0:07:33 | 0:07:35 | |
2,000 poured through the gate onto the already overcrowded terraces. | 0:07:37 | 0:07:42 | |
The momentum took us forward, and in a very short space of time | 0:07:45 | 0:07:49 | |
I found myself turned around and right at the very front. | 0:07:49 | 0:07:54 | |
Tracey had lost her shoe, and I couldn't reach her. | 0:07:54 | 0:07:59 | |
Somebody picked up her shoe and picked her up, as well, | 0:07:59 | 0:08:03 | |
because she'd fallen, and that was the last time I saw either of them. | 0:08:03 | 0:08:06 | |
Even before the game kicked off, people were dying on the terraces. | 0:08:08 | 0:08:13 | |
The only way out for fans crushed against the wall | 0:08:15 | 0:08:18 | |
and fencing at the front was through a small locked gate onto the pitch, | 0:08:18 | 0:08:22 | |
one for each pen. | 0:08:22 | 0:08:24 | |
I remember us shouting to the policeman by the gate. | 0:08:25 | 0:08:28 | |
We were asking him to open the gate to take the pressure off. | 0:08:28 | 0:08:31 | |
He was standing there looking and he's just basically ignoring us, | 0:08:31 | 0:08:34 | |
and people are screaming at him to open the gate. | 0:08:34 | 0:08:36 | |
People began climbing the fences in desperation. | 0:08:37 | 0:08:41 | |
But the police, who could see it all from the control box, | 0:08:41 | 0:08:45 | |
assumed it was crowd trouble. | 0:08:45 | 0:08:47 | |
I saw people being pushed back over. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:50 | |
-By the police? -By the police, yeah. | 0:08:50 | 0:08:52 | |
People were trying to get out and they were being pushed back in. | 0:08:52 | 0:08:55 | |
Hillsborough was a disaster like no other. | 0:08:59 | 0:09:02 | |
It was recorded by eight BBC cameras. | 0:09:02 | 0:09:05 | |
The police had CCTV and a mobile camera unit. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:08 | |
The BBC footage was later released to the police | 0:09:11 | 0:09:14 | |
and the families' lawyers, and then locked away, | 0:09:14 | 0:09:17 | |
considered too distressing for broadcast. | 0:09:17 | 0:09:20 | |
24 years on, we've been able to analyse it. | 0:09:21 | 0:09:25 | |
It shows how things went wrong from the start at Hillsborough, | 0:09:25 | 0:09:28 | |
and continued going wrong for longer than has ever been admitted. | 0:09:28 | 0:09:32 | |
JOHN MOTSON: So, on a clear, sunny day at Hillsborough, | 0:09:36 | 0:09:39 | |
the stage is set for a rerun of last year's classic. | 0:09:39 | 0:09:42 | |
Liverpool in red, Forest all in white, | 0:09:42 | 0:09:44 | |
Stuart Pearce gives away the first free-kick. | 0:09:44 | 0:09:47 | |
By now, police officers at the Leppings Lane end had opened | 0:09:50 | 0:09:54 | |
the gates behind the goal and were escorting fans to the sides. | 0:09:54 | 0:09:57 | |
But the gates were too small to get people out quickly. | 0:09:59 | 0:10:02 | |
Dozens were trapped at the front, many of them youngsters. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:06 | |
I was very distressed at this stage because I couldn't move, | 0:10:09 | 0:10:14 | |
I was face to face with a man | 0:10:14 | 0:10:17 | |
who was obviously in trouble as well. | 0:10:17 | 0:10:19 | |
-COMMENTATOR: -I think there may be a slight overflow in the crowd | 0:10:21 | 0:10:24 | |
at the Liverpool end, at the Leppings Lane end of the ground. | 0:10:24 | 0:10:28 | |
But there is room in the sections to either side | 0:10:28 | 0:10:30 | |
if they can shift them over. | 0:10:30 | 0:10:32 | |
But police control still feared a pitch invasion | 0:10:34 | 0:10:37 | |
and ordered up reinforcements, | 0:10:37 | 0:10:40 | |
even as the first injured fans spilled onto the pitch. | 0:10:40 | 0:10:43 | |
And there are fans on the pitch here in the six-yard area. | 0:10:43 | 0:10:46 | |
The referee is going to have to stop the game. | 0:10:46 | 0:10:49 | |
Just before 3:06, the game is stopped. | 0:10:50 | 0:10:54 | |
Fans ran onto the pitch, yelling for help. | 0:10:56 | 0:10:59 | |
Some were in shock, like Stephanie Jones. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:04 | |
Fortunately for me, | 0:11:07 | 0:11:08 | |
I had found myself in front of the perimeter gate. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:11 | |
Somebody said to me, "Through here." | 0:11:11 | 0:11:14 | |
I have no idea how it happened, I don't know how they've hugged me up | 0:11:14 | 0:11:19 | |
or pulled me up, but they pulled me through the perimeter gate and I was | 0:11:19 | 0:11:24 | |
probably the first person they pulled out of the gate onto the pitch. | 0:11:24 | 0:11:27 | |
-COMMENTATOR: -Steve Nicol is trying to urge the fans to go back | 0:11:29 | 0:11:32 | |
and they are saying there's no room. | 0:11:32 | 0:11:35 | |
Back on Merseyside, those with family at the game soon heard | 0:11:35 | 0:11:39 | |
news of a problem at Hillsborough, among them Stephanie's mother. | 0:11:39 | 0:11:44 | |
I had a look at the television, which was on. | 0:11:44 | 0:11:47 | |
The commentator's voice was very, very serious | 0:11:47 | 0:11:50 | |
and he thought there was injuries and maybe a fatality in there | 0:11:50 | 0:11:54 | |
and I just started screaming right away, "My three are in there!" | 0:11:54 | 0:11:58 | |
Open the gate! | 0:11:58 | 0:12:00 | |
SHOUTING | 0:12:00 | 0:12:03 | |
Police commanders were slow to react. | 0:12:06 | 0:12:08 | |
The FA's head of communications, Glen Kirton, | 0:12:10 | 0:12:13 | |
went to the control box to find out what was going on. | 0:12:13 | 0:12:16 | |
Mr Duckenfield said there had been a break-in at one of the gates, | 0:12:17 | 0:12:21 | |
-caused by an inrush of Liverpool supporters. -A break-in? -Yes. | 0:12:21 | 0:12:27 | |
Already, the blame for Hillsborough was being shifted onto the fans. | 0:12:28 | 0:12:32 | |
Within minutes of the game being stopped, | 0:12:32 | 0:12:35 | |
John Motson heard the story. | 0:12:35 | 0:12:37 | |
-MOTSON: -Yeah, I've got an explanation for what's happened here. | 0:12:39 | 0:12:42 | |
I'm going to give you a line. | 0:12:42 | 0:12:45 | |
And this story emerges that one of the outside gates | 0:12:45 | 0:12:48 | |
leading into that terrace was broken. | 0:12:48 | 0:12:50 | |
People without tickets got in, were therefore overcrowding | 0:12:50 | 0:12:55 | |
the people with tickets and that's why the crush occurred. | 0:12:55 | 0:12:58 | |
Supporters who had escaped the crush | 0:13:00 | 0:13:02 | |
did what they could to help the others. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:05 | |
I ended up getting pulled through the gate | 0:13:05 | 0:13:08 | |
and I jumped up on the fence, trying to pull people up, | 0:13:08 | 0:13:11 | |
but it was virtually impossible to pull them out | 0:13:11 | 0:13:14 | |
because the fences were designed to keep you in, basically. | 0:13:14 | 0:13:17 | |
Fans and police tore at the fence to get to the injured, | 0:13:19 | 0:13:22 | |
trapped against the wall. | 0:13:22 | 0:13:24 | |
In the seats above the Leppings Lane terrace, | 0:13:25 | 0:13:28 | |
Dr John Ashton was with his two sons. | 0:13:28 | 0:13:31 | |
I saw people being carried onto the pitch | 0:13:32 | 0:13:35 | |
and I turned to one of my boys and I said, | 0:13:35 | 0:13:38 | |
"I think that person is dead," and then there was another one | 0:13:38 | 0:13:41 | |
and I said, "I think that one may be dead too, and that one." | 0:13:41 | 0:13:44 | |
The police should have activated the major incident plan | 0:13:45 | 0:13:48 | |
for all the emergency services to swing into action, | 0:13:48 | 0:13:52 | |
but they didn't, so the first ambulance on the scene | 0:13:52 | 0:13:56 | |
was from the St John's Ambulance volunteers. | 0:13:56 | 0:13:59 | |
Its arrival time, 3:15, was significant. | 0:14:02 | 0:14:05 | |
A coroner would later rule that all of those who died were by then | 0:14:06 | 0:14:10 | |
either already dead or beyond saving. | 0:14:10 | 0:14:12 | |
I went and made myself known to a policeman and said, | 0:14:15 | 0:14:17 | |
"What should I do?" He had no idea | 0:14:17 | 0:14:20 | |
and I realised that there was nobody actually taking charge. | 0:14:20 | 0:14:26 | |
I did what I could, | 0:14:26 | 0:14:27 | |
which was not really about applying first aid or anything, it was | 0:14:27 | 0:14:31 | |
about trying to get the right people off to hospital in the right order. | 0:14:31 | 0:14:35 | |
When a second ambulance arrived at the other end of the ground, | 0:14:37 | 0:14:40 | |
Liverpool supporters carried victims across the pitch | 0:14:40 | 0:14:43 | |
on advertising hoardings. | 0:14:43 | 0:14:45 | |
Among them was an off-duty fireman. | 0:14:46 | 0:14:48 | |
I just noticed people | 0:14:50 | 0:14:52 | |
were putting people on the boards and trying to ferry them | 0:14:52 | 0:14:55 | |
across the pitch as quick as they can | 0:14:55 | 0:14:57 | |
and I think I done that two or three times. | 0:14:57 | 0:15:01 | |
It was trying to look for people who needed help and basically | 0:15:01 | 0:15:06 | |
going from one person to another, trying to do some basic first aid. | 0:15:06 | 0:15:10 | |
Trevor Hicks was looking for his two daughters. | 0:15:12 | 0:15:16 | |
I went onto the pitch. | 0:15:16 | 0:15:17 | |
Very quickly and quite remarkably found Sarah and Vicky | 0:15:17 | 0:15:21 | |
almost side by side, so suddenly I am with both daughters | 0:15:21 | 0:15:26 | |
and we are fighting to save their lives. | 0:15:26 | 0:15:28 | |
SIRENS WAIL | 0:15:28 | 0:15:32 | |
Ambulances arrived outside the ground, | 0:15:32 | 0:15:35 | |
but crews and emergency equipment weren't sent inside. | 0:15:35 | 0:15:41 | |
Only one more ambulance drove onto the pitch. | 0:15:41 | 0:15:44 | |
The ambulance man on board this third vehicle | 0:15:44 | 0:15:49 | |
says the emergency response was chaotic. | 0:15:49 | 0:15:51 | |
I always think in terms of a rail accident. | 0:15:51 | 0:15:54 | |
Could you imagine the public outcry | 0:15:54 | 0:15:57 | |
if all ambulance crews remained on an embankment simply because | 0:15:57 | 0:16:00 | |
they couldn't get the ambulance down to the scene of the accident? | 0:16:00 | 0:16:04 | |
That doesn't happen. They get out of their vehicles | 0:16:04 | 0:16:07 | |
and if that's the length of a football pitch that they have to go, | 0:16:07 | 0:16:10 | |
then they make their way there. | 0:16:10 | 0:16:11 | |
Alongside the grief and the shock, there was already anger | 0:16:15 | 0:16:19 | |
at what had been allowed to happen at Hillsborough. | 0:16:19 | 0:16:22 | |
They opened the gates, never even took the stub, | 0:16:22 | 0:16:26 | |
-just opened the gates. -They said, "All pile in." | 0:16:26 | 0:16:28 | |
It's disgusting and there is at least 50 people dead tonight. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:31 | |
COMMENTATOR: The fans who were mercifully not injured | 0:16:33 | 0:16:36 | |
have left the ground, most of them, | 0:16:36 | 0:16:38 | |
and the feeling here now is one of complete numbness. | 0:16:38 | 0:16:43 | |
We were sitting on the coach and nobody was speaking. | 0:16:45 | 0:16:48 | |
I couldn't stop shaking and then the driver put the radio on | 0:16:48 | 0:16:54 | |
and then it come out that there was like...16 dead | 0:16:54 | 0:17:00 | |
and then... Obviously we were waiting for people to come back | 0:17:00 | 0:17:04 | |
and the numbers just kept going up and up and up. | 0:17:04 | 0:17:08 | |
Much worse was to come for the relatives of those unaccounted for. | 0:17:12 | 0:17:16 | |
The football club gym was now a temporary mortuary. | 0:17:16 | 0:17:21 | |
Trevor and Jenny Hicks arrived | 0:17:21 | 0:17:23 | |
knowing their 15-year-old daughter Vicky had died in hospital. | 0:17:23 | 0:17:27 | |
19-year-old Sarah was still missing. | 0:17:27 | 0:17:30 | |
Inside, were dozens of bodies to be identified. | 0:17:32 | 0:17:35 | |
The police had taken pictures of them all. | 0:17:36 | 0:17:40 | |
Trevor and Jenny were asked if their daughter were among them. | 0:17:40 | 0:17:43 | |
There must have been 80-odd photographs, little Polaroid ones. | 0:17:44 | 0:17:49 | |
And I looked and I couldn't see Sarah. | 0:17:50 | 0:17:54 | |
I recognised Vicky, so the policeman just said to me, | 0:17:54 | 0:17:59 | |
"Look again, love." | 0:17:59 | 0:18:00 | |
And when I looked again, I saw her. | 0:18:00 | 0:18:03 | |
And that was the point I knew it was both of them. | 0:18:05 | 0:18:08 | |
Many families were now arriving from Merseyside. | 0:18:13 | 0:18:17 | |
Doreen and Leslie Jones knew their daughter Steph was safe, | 0:18:17 | 0:18:21 | |
but their son Richard and his girlfriend Tracey were missing. | 0:18:21 | 0:18:25 | |
They wheeled the trolley in and Richard | 0:18:27 | 0:18:29 | |
was the first one whose body they brought in | 0:18:29 | 0:18:33 | |
and I identified him and then Tracey was wheeled in | 0:18:33 | 0:18:36 | |
and I identified her. | 0:18:36 | 0:18:38 | |
I wanted to touch my son, I wanted to hold him and I wasn't allowed to. | 0:18:39 | 0:18:47 | |
We were told he was the property of the coroner | 0:18:48 | 0:18:51 | |
and that I couldn't touch him. | 0:18:51 | 0:18:54 | |
Among the officers helping to identify the dead at the gym | 0:18:57 | 0:19:01 | |
was PC Ray Powell. | 0:19:01 | 0:19:03 | |
That night, I cried. I went home and I cried. | 0:19:04 | 0:19:08 | |
And I wasn't crying for myself, I was crying for | 0:19:10 | 0:19:13 | |
the relatives of the people. | 0:19:13 | 0:19:15 | |
The only thing I remember about | 0:19:17 | 0:19:19 | |
the gymnasium part that was sectioned off, | 0:19:19 | 0:19:23 | |
was a fellow punching a brick wall and it was like, | 0:19:23 | 0:19:27 | |
you know, new brick, which is sharp | 0:19:27 | 0:19:31 | |
and he was punching it and nobody took any bloody notice. | 0:19:31 | 0:19:35 | |
TEARFULLY: It was disgraceful. | 0:19:35 | 0:19:37 | |
That night at South Yorkshire Police headquarters, the chief constable, | 0:19:46 | 0:19:50 | |
Peter Wright, was in no mood to accept any blame for the disaster. | 0:19:50 | 0:19:55 | |
But he corrected the false story that Liverpool fans | 0:19:56 | 0:19:59 | |
had caused it by forcing open a gate. | 0:19:59 | 0:20:01 | |
The gate... The gate was opened at police direction. | 0:20:03 | 0:20:07 | |
I am not aware of any connection between the opening of the gate | 0:20:07 | 0:20:11 | |
and the surge on the terrace. | 0:20:11 | 0:20:12 | |
-JOURNALIST: -Why was the gate opened, Chief Inspector? | 0:20:12 | 0:20:15 | |
Because there was danger to life outside with crushing. | 0:20:15 | 0:20:18 | |
-JOURNALIST: -How did it get that bad? | 0:20:18 | 0:20:20 | |
By late arrival of large numbers of people. | 0:20:20 | 0:20:23 | |
NEWSREADER: 93 football fans, | 0:20:26 | 0:20:29 | |
most, if not all, Liverpool supporters | 0:20:29 | 0:20:31 | |
have been crushed to death at the FA Cup semi-final at... | 0:20:31 | 0:20:34 | |
'By 10 o'clock, it was clear to thousands of us | 0:20:34 | 0:20:36 | |
'who had been there what was to blame. | 0:20:36 | 0:20:38 | |
'Overcrowding and poor policing had caused the disaster, which is | 0:20:40 | 0:20:44 | |
'what I reported that night.' | 0:20:44 | 0:20:46 | |
Those of us who were trying to get into the Leppings Lane | 0:20:46 | 0:20:48 | |
end of the ground, the Liverpool end, were quite perturbed | 0:20:48 | 0:20:51 | |
and angered at the lack of adequate policing, | 0:20:51 | 0:20:54 | |
which led to dreadful crushes outside, which, in turn, | 0:20:54 | 0:20:57 | |
led to the police opening of the double gate. | 0:20:57 | 0:20:59 | |
'What we didn't know back in 1989 | 0:21:06 | 0:21:08 | |
'was that a cover-up had already begun. | 0:21:08 | 0:21:11 | |
'It lasted almost a quarter of a century. | 0:21:13 | 0:21:15 | |
'Until last September, when the Hillsborough Independent Panel | 0:21:17 | 0:21:21 | |
'published the results of years of research.' | 0:21:21 | 0:21:24 | |
What we have here, 23 years of contemporaneous documents, stage | 0:21:25 | 0:21:31 | |
by stage, which has gone through a forensic analysis at all levels. | 0:21:31 | 0:21:35 | |
'The secrets of Hillsborough are contained | 0:21:40 | 0:21:42 | |
'here in the Sheffield Archive. | 0:21:42 | 0:21:44 | |
'There are nearly half a million pages from confidential police, | 0:21:45 | 0:21:49 | |
'legal and government documents - | 0:21:49 | 0:21:52 | |
'the records of inquiries, inquests and hearings. | 0:21:52 | 0:21:55 | |
'They show the disaster was never properly investigated.' | 0:21:57 | 0:22:02 | |
It has meant that those at fault have been able to shift | 0:22:02 | 0:22:05 | |
the blame onto others. | 0:22:05 | 0:22:07 | |
These documents are now the starting point | 0:22:07 | 0:22:10 | |
for our investigation into how and why that was allowed to happen. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:14 | |
'Before the victims were identified, | 0:22:19 | 0:22:21 | |
'the coroner had ordered blood-alcohol tests on them all. | 0:22:21 | 0:22:25 | |
'Including children. | 0:22:25 | 0:22:27 | |
'False allegations of drunkenness would be used again and again. | 0:22:27 | 0:22:31 | |
'The morning after. | 0:22:35 | 0:22:36 | |
'The Prime Minister arrives to be briefed by officers, including | 0:22:37 | 0:22:41 | |
'Chief Superintendent Duckenfield, the man who lied about the gate. | 0:22:41 | 0:22:45 | |
'She was told a tanked-up mob had charged onto the terraces. | 0:22:47 | 0:22:50 | |
'Chief Constable Wright | 0:22:52 | 0:22:53 | |
'was privately calling the Liverpool fans animalistic.' | 0:22:53 | 0:22:56 | |
We shall find all the facts through an inquiry | 0:22:58 | 0:23:01 | |
and you mustn't make any judgement on partial facts. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:05 | |
'That weekend, South Yorkshire Police | 0:23:08 | 0:23:10 | |
'were developing plans to defend themselves. | 0:23:10 | 0:23:13 | |
'Senior officers were then called to a meeting. | 0:23:13 | 0:23:17 | |
'Among them was Inspector Clive Davis and his boss, | 0:23:17 | 0:23:20 | |
'a man whose role was to become increasingly controversial | 0:23:20 | 0:23:24 | |
'as the years went by.' | 0:23:24 | 0:23:25 | |
I was working with a senior officer at that time, | 0:23:27 | 0:23:29 | |
who was Chief Inspector Norman Bettison, I was working with. | 0:23:29 | 0:23:34 | |
He said he was keen for us to go to a briefing. | 0:23:34 | 0:23:37 | |
This was an opportunity for us to get ourselves recognised. | 0:23:38 | 0:23:41 | |
Those were his words to me. | 0:23:41 | 0:23:44 | |
'At the meeting, Clive Davis, Norman Bettison | 0:23:44 | 0:23:47 | |
'and other officers heard the South Yorkshire Police | 0:23:47 | 0:23:50 | |
'strategy spelt out.' | 0:23:50 | 0:23:53 | |
I think the exact words, | 0:23:53 | 0:23:54 | |
and they're almost indelibly stamped on my memory - | 0:23:54 | 0:23:58 | |
"We are going to put the blame for this where it deserves to be - | 0:23:58 | 0:24:01 | |
"or where it should be - on the drunken, | 0:24:01 | 0:24:05 | |
"ticketless Liverpool supporters and we have to go now | 0:24:05 | 0:24:10 | |
"and find the evidence to show that this is the case." | 0:24:10 | 0:24:14 | |
CROWD ROAR | 0:24:14 | 0:24:16 | |
'It was a message that could stick. | 0:24:19 | 0:24:21 | |
'In the 1980s, there was regular violence among football crowds. | 0:24:21 | 0:24:25 | |
CROWD CHANT | 0:24:25 | 0:24:27 | |
'Liverpool's reputation hadn't been particularly bad. | 0:24:28 | 0:24:31 | |
'But in 1985, 39 people were killed fleeing Liverpool fans | 0:24:33 | 0:24:38 | |
'during fighting at the Heysel Stadium in Brussels. | 0:24:38 | 0:24:41 | |
'Now Sheffield's Police Federation, backed by their chief constable, | 0:24:44 | 0:24:48 | |
'were blaming Liverpool fans for Hillsborough.' | 0:24:48 | 0:24:51 | |
When you have got great big police horses there, | 0:24:51 | 0:24:54 | |
and I don't know about you but they frighten me to death, and they're | 0:24:54 | 0:24:57 | |
diving under the belly and between its legs, | 0:24:57 | 0:25:00 | |
now, anybody who does that, I don't care what other people say, | 0:25:00 | 0:25:04 | |
they're either mental or they're drunk. | 0:25:04 | 0:25:06 | |
'The Police Federation | 0:25:08 | 0:25:09 | |
'and senior officers were feeding these lines to journalists. | 0:25:09 | 0:25:14 | |
'The lie became the truth, | 0:25:14 | 0:25:16 | |
'with parts of the press ready to swallow it whole.' | 0:25:16 | 0:25:19 | |
You have no idea how much that has followed me over the years | 0:25:21 | 0:25:24 | |
and how much that has deeply, deeply hurt me | 0:25:24 | 0:25:28 | |
over the years that people could think... | 0:25:28 | 0:25:31 | |
They are virtually blaming me for killing my own brother | 0:25:31 | 0:25:33 | |
and his girlfriend. | 0:25:33 | 0:25:35 | |
It was decided very early on, "This is the way it's going to go, | 0:25:35 | 0:25:39 | |
"we can't possibly be blamed, the police can't possibly be blamed." | 0:25:39 | 0:25:43 | |
'According to the Police Federation today, | 0:25:44 | 0:25:46 | |
'their role in spreading those stories was understandable.' | 0:25:46 | 0:25:51 | |
I think what the Federation rep did was report what had been told | 0:25:51 | 0:25:53 | |
to him in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy. | 0:25:53 | 0:25:57 | |
A lot of the people there will see and will have seen | 0:25:57 | 0:26:00 | |
and heard bad things and they report them, either exaggerated, | 0:26:00 | 0:26:05 | |
over exaggerated, whatever it may be, and it becomes their truth. | 0:26:05 | 0:26:08 | |
-Is that reasonable? -It may have been reasonable at the time. | 0:26:08 | 0:26:11 | |
Whether it looks reasonable | 0:26:11 | 0:26:13 | |
looking back at it over a distance of time is a different story. | 0:26:13 | 0:26:16 | |
'The week after the disaster, | 0:26:25 | 0:26:27 | |
'Liverpool's Anfield Stadium had become a shrine. | 0:26:27 | 0:26:30 | |
'Among the thousands paying their respects was the man | 0:26:32 | 0:26:35 | |
'chosen to find out what had gone wrong at Hillsborough.' | 0:26:35 | 0:26:38 | |
This scene is a most poignant and moving one, | 0:26:40 | 0:26:44 | |
which makes one realise how deeply this community has been | 0:26:44 | 0:26:48 | |
afflicted and how deeply it feels its loss. | 0:26:48 | 0:26:51 | |
'Lord Justice Taylor was to lead an independent inquiry. | 0:26:53 | 0:26:57 | |
'The government had asked for an urgent report. | 0:26:57 | 0:27:00 | |
'Alongside him was the West Midlands Chief Constable Geoffrey Dear. | 0:27:02 | 0:27:07 | |
'His force was to investigate where the blame lay. | 0:27:07 | 0:27:10 | |
'But South Yorkshire Police, who were under investigation, | 0:27:12 | 0:27:15 | |
'were handed a trump card. | 0:27:15 | 0:27:18 | |
'Lord Justice Taylor allowed them | 0:27:18 | 0:27:20 | |
'to take their own officers' statements.' | 0:27:20 | 0:27:23 | |
He decided, and I fully supported him, | 0:27:24 | 0:27:26 | |
that one way to move through quickly was to ask the police witnesses, | 0:27:26 | 0:27:30 | |
not those who were likely to be in the frame for criminal | 0:27:30 | 0:27:33 | |
prosecution but the police witnesses, to write their own statements. | 0:27:33 | 0:27:36 | |
The ordinary officers on the ground, basically. | 0:27:36 | 0:27:38 | |
That's right, yeah. Yeah. And that's what they did. | 0:27:38 | 0:27:41 | |
He wanted it done that way. He saw that was the quick way through. | 0:27:41 | 0:27:44 | |
His decision. I'll take responsibility for it | 0:27:44 | 0:27:47 | |
because he is dead. | 0:27:47 | 0:27:48 | |
But that was his responsibility at the time. | 0:27:48 | 0:27:51 | |
And here is a man who's going to become the Lord Chief Justice. | 0:27:51 | 0:27:54 | |
I mean, it is not for you or I to query that, I would suggest. | 0:27:54 | 0:27:58 | |
'South Yorkshire Police officers on duty that day were | 0:28:00 | 0:28:03 | |
'instructed not to make witness statements in the usual way. | 0:28:03 | 0:28:07 | |
'Instead, they were told | 0:28:07 | 0:28:09 | |
'to write down their recollections on plain paper.' | 0:28:09 | 0:28:13 | |
There is absolutely no reason at all | 0:28:13 | 0:28:16 | |
why all those police officers shouldn't have been told, | 0:28:16 | 0:28:19 | |
"Write witness statements in the conventional way," about this. | 0:28:19 | 0:28:22 | |
In the same way that all the Liverpool supporters who were | 0:28:22 | 0:28:25 | |
interviewed by the West Midlands Police did. | 0:28:25 | 0:28:28 | |
'The police officers' first accounts were then vetted | 0:28:30 | 0:28:34 | |
'and many were altered and edited by senior officers before being signed. | 0:28:34 | 0:28:39 | |
'PC Brian Huckstepp had originally written...' | 0:28:39 | 0:28:42 | |
"It might possibly have been better to direct the fans | 0:28:42 | 0:28:45 | |
"into the flank areas, which I saw were by no means full." | 0:28:45 | 0:28:50 | |
'That was cut out. | 0:28:50 | 0:28:52 | |
'PC Andrew Brookes had a question.' | 0:28:52 | 0:28:55 | |
"Why were the sliding doors at the back of the tunnel not | 0:28:55 | 0:28:58 | |
"closed at 2:45 when those sections of the ground were full?" | 0:28:58 | 0:29:03 | |
'That went. | 0:29:03 | 0:29:04 | |
'Critical comments were deleted from no fewer than 116 police statements. | 0:29:06 | 0:29:11 | |
'The process was to contaminate all future legal proceedings.' | 0:29:11 | 0:29:16 | |
There was a clear pattern right from the outset that any | 0:29:16 | 0:29:19 | |
criticisms of senior officers, | 0:29:19 | 0:29:20 | |
any criticisms of the policing operation | 0:29:20 | 0:29:22 | |
were removed in their entirety. | 0:29:22 | 0:29:24 | |
Any criticisms of the fans were left in. | 0:29:24 | 0:29:27 | |
'PC Ray Powell had expressed concerns at how few police | 0:29:29 | 0:29:33 | |
'he had seen at the turnstiles outside Leppings Lane.' | 0:29:33 | 0:29:36 | |
"The first thing I said was, | 0:29:38 | 0:29:39 | |
"Where are all the bobbies? There's hardly anybody there. | 0:29:39 | 0:29:42 | |
"There was usually a large police presence on this part of the ground, | 0:29:42 | 0:29:46 | |
"usually forming some sort of cordon." | 0:29:46 | 0:29:48 | |
'That and more was erased.' | 0:29:50 | 0:29:52 | |
You didn't realise what they had done. | 0:29:53 | 0:29:56 | |
No, as such. I... | 0:29:56 | 0:29:59 | |
I wasn't aware of what they had taken out because you basically | 0:29:59 | 0:30:02 | |
trust your prosecution services or your legal advice or whatever. | 0:30:02 | 0:30:09 | |
You know, I browsed through my statement. The contents were there. | 0:30:09 | 0:30:13 | |
Nothing was added that I didn't disagree with. | 0:30:13 | 0:30:16 | |
And I therefore signed the statement. | 0:30:17 | 0:30:19 | |
What do you think now? | 0:30:19 | 0:30:21 | |
In hindsight, | 0:30:21 | 0:30:24 | |
the statements... | 0:30:24 | 0:30:26 | |
..should have been left intact. | 0:30:28 | 0:30:30 | |
'The amended statements were sent to the West Midlands force who | 0:30:33 | 0:30:37 | |
'were investigating the South Yorkshire Police. | 0:30:37 | 0:30:40 | |
'They knew they had been altered, but didn't know how much. | 0:30:40 | 0:30:44 | |
'And didn't ask.' | 0:30:44 | 0:30:46 | |
There was a degree of trust in this. Was that naive or not? | 0:30:46 | 0:30:50 | |
I think it was a perfectly natural reaction that you could trust | 0:30:50 | 0:30:52 | |
the force, even if it hurt them, to come forward with the truth | 0:30:52 | 0:30:57 | |
and not to expect what is now being suggested that there was a huge, | 0:30:57 | 0:31:02 | |
if not conspiracy, certainly attempt to move the whole evidence | 0:31:02 | 0:31:06 | |
away from South Yorkshire and load it on to the fans. | 0:31:06 | 0:31:09 | |
But the point is, shouldn't a police officer worth his salt | 0:31:09 | 0:31:13 | |
investigating another police force have found out what was going on? | 0:31:13 | 0:31:16 | |
I think you're looking at it | 0:31:16 | 0:31:17 | |
with the wisdom of 20/20 hindsight, aren't you? | 0:31:17 | 0:31:20 | |
'A month after the disaster, | 0:31:23 | 0:31:24 | |
'Lord Justice Taylor's inquiry began in Sheffield. | 0:31:24 | 0:31:27 | |
'Chief Inspector Norman Bettison ran a liaison team, | 0:31:30 | 0:31:33 | |
'briefing South Yorkshire Police witnesses. | 0:31:33 | 0:31:36 | |
'But the judge wasn't convinced by some police evidence. | 0:31:37 | 0:31:41 | |
'Particularly from the most senior officers.' | 0:31:41 | 0:31:43 | |
NEWSREADER: The official inquiry into the Hillsborough disaster says | 0:31:46 | 0:31:49 | |
that police and Sheffield Wednesday Football Club must shoulder | 0:31:49 | 0:31:52 | |
most of the blame for the tragedy. | 0:31:52 | 0:31:55 | |
'Lord Justice Taylor's report was damning. | 0:31:55 | 0:31:58 | |
'He found that the main cause of the disaster was overcrowding | 0:31:58 | 0:32:02 | |
'and the main reason for that was a failure of police control. | 0:32:02 | 0:32:06 | |
'Failing to block off the tunnel after opening gate C had been, | 0:32:08 | 0:32:11 | |
' "a blunder of the first magnitude." ' | 0:32:11 | 0:32:14 | |
My reaction was that I cried. | 0:32:16 | 0:32:19 | |
I'd heard so much about | 0:32:19 | 0:32:21 | |
drunken hooligans and | 0:32:21 | 0:32:25 | |
I tried to defend my son. | 0:32:25 | 0:32:27 | |
He wasn't like that. | 0:32:27 | 0:32:28 | |
So I just thought, "Well, perhaps it'll all end now. | 0:32:28 | 0:32:31 | |
"Perhaps they'd stop." | 0:32:31 | 0:32:33 | |
But, of course, they didn't. | 0:32:36 | 0:32:37 | |
'Prosecutions of senior police officers were expected to follow. | 0:32:42 | 0:32:46 | |
'At this crucial point, South Yorkshire Police produced | 0:32:47 | 0:32:51 | |
'an allegation with the potential to destroy any case against them. | 0:32:51 | 0:32:55 | |
'It came from this first visit to the Hillsborough stadium, | 0:32:57 | 0:33:01 | |
'three days on from the disaster, | 0:33:01 | 0:33:02 | |
'by Lord Justice Taylor and Chief Constable Dear. | 0:33:02 | 0:33:05 | |
'Their driver was a PC from South Yorkshire. | 0:33:07 | 0:33:10 | |
'He told colleagues he had heard that the two in his car agreeing, | 0:33:10 | 0:33:13 | |
'right at the start, about blaming his force for what had happened. | 0:33:13 | 0:33:17 | |
'We have identified that driver. | 0:33:20 | 0:33:22 | |
'He is former constable Mark Lewis, seen here on traffic duty in 1990. | 0:33:22 | 0:33:28 | |
'About this time, senior officers began hearing | 0:33:29 | 0:33:32 | |
'rumours about a conversation he had overheard a year earlier.' | 0:33:32 | 0:33:35 | |
Mark Lewis has told Panorama that | 0:33:38 | 0:33:40 | |
while he felt at the time what he had heard was inappropriate, | 0:33:40 | 0:33:44 | |
he didn't think it was worth taking any further. | 0:33:44 | 0:33:47 | |
But then, a full year on, it was suggested he go | 0:33:47 | 0:33:49 | |
and talk to his boss, Norman Bettison. | 0:33:49 | 0:33:52 | |
'After speaking to the recently promoted Superintendent Bettison, | 0:33:54 | 0:33:58 | |
'Constable Lewis felt it, "Only right the record be put straight." | 0:33:58 | 0:34:04 | |
'He made an official report. | 0:34:04 | 0:34:06 | |
'Mark Lewis alleged Lord Justice Taylor had said...' | 0:34:08 | 0:34:12 | |
"I suppose you realise that to give this inquiry any credibility | 0:34:12 | 0:34:16 | |
"we have to apportion the majority of the blame on the police?" | 0:34:16 | 0:34:20 | |
'Chief Constable Dear allegedly replied...' | 0:34:21 | 0:34:24 | |
"I suppose we do." | 0:34:24 | 0:34:26 | |
'A year later, that overheard conversation had become | 0:34:31 | 0:34:35 | |
'a serious allegation. | 0:34:35 | 0:34:36 | |
'It landed on the desk of South Yorkshire's new chief constable, | 0:34:38 | 0:34:41 | |
'Richard Wells, who just replaced the recently retired Peter Wright.' | 0:34:41 | 0:34:47 | |
How many times in your career have you seen a Law Lord | 0:34:47 | 0:34:50 | |
and a chief constable accused of conspiring together? | 0:34:50 | 0:34:53 | |
One. This case. And that's why I reacted so seriously to it. | 0:34:53 | 0:34:57 | |
It didn't cross your mind that the police in South Yorkshire, | 0:34:57 | 0:35:00 | |
under pressure, may be up to something here? | 0:35:00 | 0:35:02 | |
No, it didn't. No, it really didn't. No. | 0:35:02 | 0:35:05 | |
The thought was, "This is a significant allegation, which | 0:35:05 | 0:35:09 | |
"needs looking into and I am not the person to look into this." | 0:35:09 | 0:35:13 | |
'Chief Constable Wells sent the allegation to | 0:35:16 | 0:35:19 | |
'the Director of Public Prosecutions just as he was deciding | 0:35:19 | 0:35:23 | |
'whether to prosecute, following the Taylor Report. | 0:35:23 | 0:35:27 | |
'Now the DPP had a serious allegation | 0:35:27 | 0:35:30 | |
'against the judge himself. | 0:35:30 | 0:35:32 | |
'Lord Justice Taylor and Geoffrey Dear were interviewed.' | 0:35:32 | 0:35:36 | |
What was Lord Taylor's response? | 0:35:36 | 0:35:38 | |
As he told me, his response was one word and pretty colourful. | 0:35:40 | 0:35:43 | |
As was mine. | 0:35:44 | 0:35:46 | |
The suggestion that two people, | 0:35:46 | 0:35:48 | |
one a chief constable of the biggest police force in the UK | 0:35:48 | 0:35:51 | |
outside London, | 0:35:51 | 0:35:52 | |
the other the man that's shortly to become Lord Chief Justice, | 0:35:52 | 0:35:55 | |
who had never met before, get into a car | 0:35:55 | 0:35:57 | |
and, in front of a witness, say they're going to cook the books | 0:35:57 | 0:35:59 | |
is utterly ridiculous and, actually, very annoying. | 0:35:59 | 0:36:02 | |
'Mark Lewis declined to take part in this programme. | 0:36:05 | 0:36:08 | |
'He told us he stands by his statement. | 0:36:08 | 0:36:11 | |
'But the DPP decided it wouldn't, in any event, have been | 0:36:12 | 0:36:15 | |
'grounds for action against Lord Justice Taylor | 0:36:15 | 0:36:18 | |
'and Geoffrey Dear. | 0:36:18 | 0:36:19 | |
'Six weeks later, | 0:36:22 | 0:36:23 | |
'the DPP made a much bigger decision on Hillsborough.' | 0:36:23 | 0:36:27 | |
NEWSREADER: The Director of Public Prosecutions | 0:36:27 | 0:36:29 | |
has decided not to bring any criminal charges against | 0:36:29 | 0:36:31 | |
the police or officials | 0:36:31 | 0:36:33 | |
in connection with the Hillsborough football stadium disaster. | 0:36:33 | 0:36:37 | |
'Chief Superintendent Duckenfield was allowed to retire | 0:36:38 | 0:36:41 | |
'on medical grounds. | 0:36:41 | 0:36:43 | |
'Neither he nor anyone else would be prosecuted for their part | 0:36:43 | 0:36:47 | |
'in causing the disaster at Hillsborough.' | 0:36:47 | 0:36:49 | |
Allowing those extra 2,000 people | 0:36:52 | 0:36:55 | |
into those already overcrowded pens, for me, | 0:36:55 | 0:36:59 | |
that is gross negligence. | 0:36:59 | 0:37:02 | |
So how on earth prosecutions didn't follow from that, I'll never know. | 0:37:02 | 0:37:08 | |
'The Hillsborough cover-up went wider than the police. | 0:37:18 | 0:37:21 | |
'If, like me, you had been there, you would have seen the chaos, | 0:37:23 | 0:37:27 | |
'the lack of a proper emergency response. | 0:37:27 | 0:37:30 | |
'But those who pointed it out would find themselves ignored or | 0:37:34 | 0:37:37 | |
'disbelieved or slapped down. | 0:37:37 | 0:37:39 | |
'Liverpool fan Dr John Ashton was one of them. | 0:37:44 | 0:37:47 | |
'The morning after the disaster, he went on television.' | 0:37:48 | 0:37:51 | |
The whole thing, from beginning to end, had incompetence | 0:37:52 | 0:37:56 | |
running right through it, the organisational arrangements. | 0:37:56 | 0:37:59 | |
And I think that it is time we started to ask | 0:37:59 | 0:38:01 | |
questions about accountability. | 0:38:01 | 0:38:03 | |
Thank you very much for joining us, Dr Ashton, | 0:38:03 | 0:38:05 | |
on a very distressing morning. | 0:38:05 | 0:38:06 | |
'Dr Ashton was an inconvenient witness - | 0:38:06 | 0:38:09 | |
'a qualified doctor who would be taken seriously. | 0:38:09 | 0:38:13 | |
'Behind the scenes, he says, attempts were made to shut him up. | 0:38:13 | 0:38:17 | |
'In public, at the Taylor Inquiry, his reputation was attacked.' | 0:38:17 | 0:38:21 | |
'Lord Justice Taylor asked me, when I went back to Liverpool,' | 0:38:22 | 0:38:26 | |
did the media contact me or did I contact the media? | 0:38:26 | 0:38:29 | |
The implication of that was that I was seeking publicity for myself. | 0:38:29 | 0:38:34 | |
'Lord Justice Taylor tried to imply that I wasn't a proper doctor, | 0:38:34 | 0:38:37 | |
'I was a public health doctor,' | 0:38:37 | 0:38:39 | |
I didn't see patients, didn't know what I was talking about. | 0:38:39 | 0:38:42 | |
'Lord Justice Taylor's report damned police failings | 0:38:43 | 0:38:47 | |
'but praised the other emergency services. | 0:38:47 | 0:38:49 | |
'Yet there were claims the ambulance service | 0:38:51 | 0:38:53 | |
'had almost completely failed to provide emergency treatment. | 0:38:53 | 0:38:57 | |
'An inquest should have been the best chance of finding the truth. | 0:39:08 | 0:39:12 | |
'But the coroner, Stefan Popper, made a decision which would leave | 0:39:13 | 0:39:17 | |
'the performance of the emergency services largely unquestioned. | 0:39:17 | 0:39:21 | |
'He accepted medical opinion that all who died that day | 0:39:22 | 0:39:26 | |
'were beyond help by 3:15. | 0:39:26 | 0:39:29 | |
'But could lives have been saved?' | 0:39:29 | 0:39:31 | |
They weren't all pulled out of the pens dead. | 0:39:34 | 0:39:36 | |
So what then happens is... | 0:39:37 | 0:39:40 | |
nobody kills them after that | 0:39:40 | 0:39:42 | |
but what can kill them | 0:39:42 | 0:39:44 | |
is the failure to actually | 0:39:44 | 0:39:45 | |
address their injuries quickly and appropriately. | 0:39:45 | 0:39:49 | |
'The mother of one young victim always maintained her son, | 0:39:51 | 0:39:55 | |
'15-year-old Kevin Williams, | 0:39:55 | 0:39:57 | |
'was alive well after the coroner's 3:15 cut-off.' | 0:39:57 | 0:40:00 | |
He imposed the 3:15 cut-off point | 0:40:02 | 0:40:04 | |
because when the surge came, | 0:40:04 | 0:40:06 | |
it was meant to have took them all. | 0:40:06 | 0:40:08 | |
You know, passed out within a minute, | 0:40:08 | 0:40:10 | |
dead and brain dead within so many minutes. | 0:40:10 | 0:40:12 | |
So he said, by 3:15, they would all be dead. | 0:40:12 | 0:40:15 | |
And it didn't matter what time any medical people arrived. | 0:40:16 | 0:40:20 | |
'West Midlands Police were assisting the coroner. | 0:40:24 | 0:40:28 | |
'They had all the pictures we are now looking at. | 0:40:28 | 0:40:31 | |
'And they showed Kevin Williams wasn't pulled out of gate three | 0:40:32 | 0:40:36 | |
'until long after 3:15, at 3:28. | 0:40:36 | 0:40:40 | |
'Kevin was laid on the pitch, | 0:40:41 | 0:40:43 | |
'police officers immediately trying to revive him. | 0:40:43 | 0:40:46 | |
'Soon after, Kevin was carried across the pitch. | 0:40:50 | 0:40:53 | |
'And there is a photograph, taken after 3:30. | 0:40:54 | 0:40:59 | |
'But was he alive?' | 0:40:59 | 0:41:01 | |
I remember shouting to everyone to pick him up | 0:41:02 | 0:41:05 | |
and get down there with him. | 0:41:05 | 0:41:07 | |
You know, you're looking at people everywhere and you're thinking, | 0:41:07 | 0:41:10 | |
obviously, my instinct was, "This lad needs help." | 0:41:10 | 0:41:12 | |
I have seen people dead before and I know that there would have | 0:41:14 | 0:41:17 | |
been a colour change. | 0:41:17 | 0:41:19 | |
His colour looked OK. | 0:41:19 | 0:41:21 | |
He was pale but, you know, I could see that he was alive. | 0:41:21 | 0:41:25 | |
'The West Midlands Police also had a photograph of an off-duty | 0:41:27 | 0:41:31 | |
'Merseyside policeman, Derek Bruder, trying to resuscitate Kevin.' | 0:41:31 | 0:41:36 | |
He told me what he had done for Kevin | 0:41:36 | 0:41:39 | |
and I said, "Was my son alive?" | 0:41:39 | 0:41:42 | |
He said, "Well, if you say finding | 0:41:42 | 0:41:44 | |
"a pulse with the first two fingers..." | 0:41:44 | 0:41:46 | |
And he lifted his hand up like that. | 0:41:46 | 0:41:48 | |
"..with your right hand, if that means he was alive | 0:41:48 | 0:41:53 | |
"then he was alive." | 0:41:53 | 0:41:54 | |
'But this photograph wasn't timed | 0:41:57 | 0:41:59 | |
'and PC Bruder couldn't be certain when it was taken. | 0:41:59 | 0:42:03 | |
'What he did remember was an ambulance | 0:42:04 | 0:42:06 | |
'arrived at the ground as he tried to save Kevin's life. | 0:42:06 | 0:42:09 | |
'Derek Bruder wasn't called to give evidence at the inquest. | 0:42:15 | 0:42:18 | |
'Instead, his evidence was outlined to the coroner | 0:42:19 | 0:42:23 | |
'by a West Midlands Police officer. | 0:42:23 | 0:42:25 | |
'He only mentioned two ambulances coming onto the pitch. | 0:42:25 | 0:42:28 | |
'And he said both of them | 0:42:30 | 0:42:31 | |
'had arrived before Kevin Williams was carried across the ground. | 0:42:31 | 0:42:35 | |
'This seemed to undermine PC Bruder's entire account.' | 0:42:35 | 0:42:39 | |
There were a number of anomalies in his evidence, | 0:42:40 | 0:42:43 | |
including a problem with the entry and exit of the ambulances. | 0:42:43 | 0:42:47 | |
It didn't quite tie in. | 0:42:47 | 0:42:49 | |
Nobody has actually picked that point up | 0:42:49 | 0:42:51 | |
but there is a difficulty | 0:42:51 | 0:42:52 | |
with his evidence, as far as I remember, | 0:42:52 | 0:42:55 | |
with regard to the timing. | 0:42:55 | 0:42:57 | |
'But there was no problem of timing. | 0:42:58 | 0:43:01 | |
'There weren't two ambulances at Hillsborough, there were three. | 0:43:03 | 0:43:06 | |
'And West Midlands Police knew that. | 0:43:08 | 0:43:10 | |
'They had the third ambulance on video | 0:43:12 | 0:43:15 | |
'and they had taken the pictures to the crew, to Tony Edwards.' | 0:43:15 | 0:43:19 | |
They had a video set up, | 0:43:19 | 0:43:21 | |
they had photographs and they had laid out photographs as well | 0:43:21 | 0:43:26 | |
and it was them who said to me, "I want to show you | 0:43:26 | 0:43:29 | |
"your vehicle coming on the pitch at 3:35." | 0:43:29 | 0:43:32 | |
-And they showed you it was 3:35? They told you? -Oh, no, absolutely. | 0:43:32 | 0:43:37 | |
They had all the information. | 0:43:37 | 0:43:39 | |
'But that information wasn't given at Kevin Williams' inquest. | 0:43:41 | 0:43:45 | |
'The third ambulance wasn't mentioned at all. | 0:43:45 | 0:43:49 | |
'Now, we can confirm Derek Bruder was right all along. | 0:43:52 | 0:43:57 | |
'We have found footage shot moments after Kevin had been | 0:43:57 | 0:44:00 | |
'carried down the pitch. | 0:44:00 | 0:44:02 | |
'Those nearby see Kevin needs help. | 0:44:02 | 0:44:05 | |
'And then we just see PC Bruder rushing towards Kevin, | 0:44:08 | 0:44:13 | |
'exactly as he described. | 0:44:13 | 0:44:15 | |
'It is after 3:30. | 0:44:15 | 0:44:17 | |
'We can reveal Derek Bruder has now complained | 0:44:22 | 0:44:25 | |
'to the Independent Police Complaints Commission | 0:44:25 | 0:44:27 | |
'about the way his evidence was dealt with.' | 0:44:27 | 0:44:30 | |
NEWSREADER: Long before the families arrived for this, | 0:44:37 | 0:44:40 | |
the final day of Britain's longest inquest, | 0:44:40 | 0:44:43 | |
it was clear that there was going to be an emotional conclusion. | 0:44:43 | 0:44:46 | |
'The Hillsborough inquest came to an end in March 1991. | 0:44:48 | 0:44:52 | |
'The verdict on all of the victims was the same - accidental death. | 0:44:52 | 0:44:56 | |
'The Hillsborough families were shattered.' | 0:44:59 | 0:45:01 | |
We will continue. | 0:45:03 | 0:45:05 | |
We, fortunately, have had a lot of sympathy from the nation. | 0:45:05 | 0:45:08 | |
It is an uphill struggle, as you can appreciate. | 0:45:08 | 0:45:10 | |
We have had to take on every part of the establishment. | 0:45:10 | 0:45:14 | |
I was utterly devastated. I really thought we stood a chance. | 0:45:14 | 0:45:20 | |
I thought maybe we would get somewhere. | 0:45:20 | 0:45:23 | |
But... And I was absolutely... It was despair for me. | 0:45:23 | 0:45:27 | |
'Anne Williams never collected her son's death certificate. | 0:45:29 | 0:45:34 | |
'She always refused to accept the verdict of accidental death.' | 0:45:34 | 0:45:37 | |
They used to say, "You're right, Anne. | 0:45:39 | 0:45:41 | |
"But you'll not beat the system." | 0:45:41 | 0:45:43 | |
And I used to say, "Well..." And they'd say, | 0:45:43 | 0:45:45 | |
"They're wearing you down." And I can always remember saying, | 0:45:45 | 0:45:49 | |
"Well, I'll wear them down before they wear me down." | 0:45:49 | 0:45:52 | |
'Despite all the inquiries, | 0:45:54 | 0:45:56 | |
'the truth about Hillsborough remained buried.' | 0:45:56 | 0:45:59 | |
I think, at that point, there was a sort of consensus | 0:46:01 | 0:46:05 | |
in the English legal system that, | 0:46:05 | 0:46:07 | |
"That's your lot, Liverpool families. | 0:46:07 | 0:46:11 | |
"You have had three very powerful inquiries here, | 0:46:11 | 0:46:13 | |
"you've had the Taylor Inquiry, | 0:46:13 | 0:46:15 | |
"you've had a year's long investigation by the DPP, | 0:46:15 | 0:46:18 | |
"you've had the longest inquest in criminal history. | 0:46:18 | 0:46:21 | |
"That's your lot. Time to put those papers away and let's move on." | 0:46:21 | 0:46:25 | |
'The Liverpool families wouldn't move on. | 0:46:32 | 0:46:34 | |
'They had been let down by the law, now they turned to politicians. | 0:46:37 | 0:46:41 | |
'After the Labour election victory in 1997, over 40 of them | 0:46:43 | 0:46:47 | |
'travelled from Merseyside to meet the new Home Secretary. | 0:46:47 | 0:46:51 | |
'He made a promise.' | 0:46:52 | 0:46:54 | |
We owe it to everyone touched by this tragedy | 0:46:54 | 0:46:56 | |
and, above all, to the families of those who died | 0:46:56 | 0:47:00 | |
to get to the bottom of this matter once and for all. | 0:47:00 | 0:47:04 | |
Hear, hear. | 0:47:04 | 0:47:06 | |
'Jack Straw, the Home Secretary, saw no need for a new inquiry | 0:47:06 | 0:47:10 | |
'but he believed that wouldn't be publicly acceptable | 0:47:10 | 0:47:13 | |
'unless it came from an independent source. | 0:47:13 | 0:47:17 | |
'So Mr Straw proposed a limited review | 0:47:17 | 0:47:20 | |
'of any fresh evidence by a judge. | 0:47:20 | 0:47:22 | |
'In what he now says was a purely factual query, | 0:47:24 | 0:47:27 | |
'the Prime Minister, Tony Blair, asked, | 0:47:27 | 0:47:30 | |
' "Why? What's the point?" ' | 0:47:30 | 0:47:32 | |
The documents reveal that neither the Home Secretary, Jack Straw, | 0:47:34 | 0:47:38 | |
nor the Prime Minister thought anything would come out of it | 0:47:38 | 0:47:42 | |
and that they didn't really expect the inquiry to produce | 0:47:42 | 0:47:46 | |
anything other than that which had already been | 0:47:46 | 0:47:49 | |
produced by inquiries which had produced nothing. | 0:47:49 | 0:47:51 | |
-There's a bit of hypocrisy there, isn't there? -Yes, I think there was. | 0:47:51 | 0:47:54 | |
-How does that make you feel? -Bad. | 0:47:54 | 0:47:56 | |
'Jack Straw appointed Lord Justice Stuart-Smith | 0:48:00 | 0:48:03 | |
'to carry out a scrutiny of the evidence. | 0:48:03 | 0:48:06 | |
'He also told the judge the Home Office had seen nothing | 0:48:06 | 0:48:09 | |
'to justify a full-scale inquiry.' | 0:48:09 | 0:48:12 | |
The families feel | 0:48:12 | 0:48:14 | |
you marked Stuart-Smith's card from the beginning. | 0:48:14 | 0:48:16 | |
Well, that's not the marking his card, | 0:48:16 | 0:48:18 | |
that's just telling the chap the truth and explaining to him | 0:48:18 | 0:48:21 | |
why I wasn't establishing a full-blown inquiry. | 0:48:21 | 0:48:24 | |
There was no secret about this. | 0:48:24 | 0:48:27 | |
You tell him your view in advance. You tell him, "Well, look..." | 0:48:27 | 0:48:29 | |
I wasn't telling him my view in advance, | 0:48:29 | 0:48:31 | |
I was asking him to conduct an inquiry. | 0:48:31 | 0:48:34 | |
But I was telling him of the scepticism of officials. | 0:48:34 | 0:48:37 | |
'So, eight years after Hillsborough, | 0:48:41 | 0:48:43 | |
'South Yorkshire Police were again in the spotlight. | 0:48:43 | 0:48:46 | |
'Many of their officers who had been there had been badly affected. | 0:48:48 | 0:48:52 | |
'Inspector Clive Calvert was one of them.' | 0:48:53 | 0:48:55 | |
I picked him up and, as far as I remember, | 0:48:57 | 0:49:00 | |
he cried on the way back. | 0:49:00 | 0:49:02 | |
I do remember him coming in, sitting in the chair, he had a drink | 0:49:02 | 0:49:08 | |
but he went to bed very early and he didn't talk about it. | 0:49:08 | 0:49:11 | |
He looked absolutely devastated. | 0:49:11 | 0:49:13 | |
'In preparation for the Stuart-Smith scrutiny, Inspector Calvert | 0:49:16 | 0:49:20 | |
'was asked to brief his chief constable at the ground. | 0:49:20 | 0:49:23 | |
'The inspector took the chance to speak out. | 0:49:24 | 0:49:27 | |
'He said he had worried for years that police witnesses to | 0:49:27 | 0:49:30 | |
'the Taylor Inquiry had been coached and officers' statements altered.' | 0:49:30 | 0:49:34 | |
Inspector Clive Calvert said very clearly that he | 0:49:34 | 0:49:38 | |
felt that there has been an element about the changing of statements | 0:49:38 | 0:49:41 | |
which had not been as innocent | 0:49:41 | 0:49:43 | |
as I had believed to have been. | 0:49:43 | 0:49:45 | |
'Inspector Calvert retired after 38 years' service | 0:49:48 | 0:49:51 | |
'and has since died. | 0:49:51 | 0:49:53 | |
'Breaking ranks on Hillsborough had been difficult.' | 0:49:53 | 0:49:56 | |
He did say to me, "I've had a word with the chief constable." | 0:49:57 | 0:50:02 | |
And he also said, "I think that'll be the end of my career. | 0:50:02 | 0:50:06 | |
"I don't think I'll go any further with the police." | 0:50:06 | 0:50:10 | |
Something to that effect. | 0:50:10 | 0:50:11 | |
After investigating Inspector Calvert's concerns, an assistant | 0:50:15 | 0:50:19 | |
chief constable from South Yorkshire reported to Judge Stuart-Smith. | 0:50:19 | 0:50:23 | |
He said Clive Calvert had been wrong about police witnesses being | 0:50:23 | 0:50:27 | |
coached and he had misunderstood the process around which | 0:50:27 | 0:50:31 | |
statements had been taken. | 0:50:31 | 0:50:33 | |
Inspector Calvert, he said, had been naive. | 0:50:33 | 0:50:36 | |
I can't explain that. | 0:50:39 | 0:50:42 | |
It's not something that I would immediately agree | 0:50:42 | 0:50:45 | |
with either saying or doing. | 0:50:45 | 0:50:47 | |
He was an experienced inspector, both operationally and in football. | 0:50:47 | 0:50:52 | |
-Mr Calvert? -Yes. Absolutely. -He wasn't naive? | 0:50:52 | 0:50:55 | |
As you put that to me, I can't understand why it was said. | 0:50:55 | 0:51:00 | |
He had never been described as naive before. | 0:51:02 | 0:51:06 | |
In fact, he had always been described as a very astute man | 0:51:06 | 0:51:11 | |
with a great deal of integrity. | 0:51:11 | 0:51:13 | |
So for that letter to say that is quite upsetting for the family | 0:51:13 | 0:51:19 | |
and, to be honest, ridiculous. | 0:51:19 | 0:51:21 | |
'When he published his report in February 1998, | 0:51:26 | 0:51:29 | |
'Lord Justice Stuart-Smith ruled that altering police | 0:51:29 | 0:51:33 | |
'statements did not amount to irregularity and malpractice. | 0:51:33 | 0:51:37 | |
'The Home Secretary agreed.' | 0:51:39 | 0:51:40 | |
The overall conclusion which Lord Justice Stuart-Smith reaches is | 0:51:42 | 0:51:46 | |
that there is no basis on which there should be a further public inquiry. | 0:51:46 | 0:51:50 | |
Les and I did everything that was expected of us. | 0:51:52 | 0:51:56 | |
We played their game. | 0:51:56 | 0:51:58 | |
We put in police complaints, | 0:51:58 | 0:52:00 | |
we wrote to the coroner, | 0:52:00 | 0:52:02 | |
we asked him questions, | 0:52:02 | 0:52:04 | |
we did a judicial review, it was all nice, | 0:52:04 | 0:52:08 | |
we wrote to all the prime ministers and, at the end of the day, | 0:52:08 | 0:52:12 | |
it got us nowhere. | 0:52:12 | 0:52:14 | |
'Yet again, the truth about Hillsborough was buried.' | 0:52:16 | 0:52:19 | |
You describe it as a thorough inquiry. | 0:52:21 | 0:52:22 | |
You were entirely satisfied with his conclusions. | 0:52:22 | 0:52:25 | |
Yes, and I thought it was a thorough inquiry | 0:52:25 | 0:52:27 | |
and that I was satisfied with his conclusions. You learn. | 0:52:27 | 0:52:30 | |
If I had known then what I know now, | 0:52:30 | 0:52:32 | |
I would have come to different conclusions but I didn't. | 0:52:32 | 0:52:35 | |
You could have known then, couldn't you? If you had looked harder. | 0:52:35 | 0:52:38 | |
I might have been able to. | 0:52:38 | 0:52:39 | |
It is a matter of great regret that I didn't look harder | 0:52:39 | 0:52:42 | |
and I'm sorry that I got it wrong. | 0:52:42 | 0:52:44 | |
And I can't turn the clock back. | 0:52:44 | 0:52:45 | |
'That makes me so sad because that's another 14 years' | 0:52:47 | 0:52:53 | |
of my life | 0:52:53 | 0:52:55 | |
that I have been made to look for the truth | 0:52:55 | 0:52:58 | |
when it was already there. | 0:52:58 | 0:53:00 | |
I mean, that is a national disgrace. | 0:53:03 | 0:53:05 | |
'The 20th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster was | 0:53:12 | 0:53:15 | |
'marked by a memorial service at Anfield. It was a turning point. | 0:53:15 | 0:53:19 | |
'The culture secretary Andy Burnham came to express | 0:53:21 | 0:53:23 | |
'the Government's sympathy.' | 0:53:23 | 0:53:25 | |
We can at least pledge that 96 fellow football supporters who died | 0:53:25 | 0:53:30 | |
will never be forgotten. | 0:53:30 | 0:53:31 | |
'The crowd of 30,000 made it clear that was no longer enough.' | 0:53:33 | 0:53:37 | |
CHANTING: Justice for the 96. | 0:53:37 | 0:53:42 | |
'Under pressure, the minister made a big commitment - | 0:53:42 | 0:53:45 | |
'the Government would break the rule that official documents | 0:53:45 | 0:53:49 | |
'have to remain secret for 30 years.' | 0:53:49 | 0:53:51 | |
People kind of thought, "Is this possible?" | 0:53:53 | 0:53:55 | |
I didn't think it was possible but I think that he knew that | 0:53:55 | 0:53:58 | |
whether he was bouncing his Government into it or it was | 0:53:58 | 0:54:01 | |
done with agreement, his Government was going to have to respond to this. | 0:54:01 | 0:54:05 | |
'The Hillsborough families had lost confidence | 0:54:07 | 0:54:10 | |
'in government and the law. | 0:54:10 | 0:54:11 | |
'They insisted on choosing people they could trust to | 0:54:11 | 0:54:14 | |
'look at the official records. | 0:54:14 | 0:54:16 | |
'By the time the independent panel published their report last | 0:54:17 | 0:54:21 | |
'September, it was a new government that finally said sorry.' | 0:54:21 | 0:54:24 | |
# You'll never walk alone. # | 0:54:24 | 0:54:32 | |
-DAVID CAMERON: -These families have suffered a double injustice. | 0:54:32 | 0:54:35 | |
The injustice of the appalling events, | 0:54:35 | 0:54:37 | |
the failure of the state to protect their loved ones | 0:54:37 | 0:54:40 | |
and their indefensible wait to get to the truth | 0:54:40 | 0:54:43 | |
and then the injustice of the denigration of the deceased, | 0:54:43 | 0:54:46 | |
that they were somehow at fault for their own deaths. | 0:54:46 | 0:54:49 | |
'The Hillsborough report showed the 3:15 cut-off | 0:54:56 | 0:54:59 | |
'imposed by the coroner was wrong. | 0:54:59 | 0:55:02 | |
'An analysis of medical evidence revealed that, | 0:55:02 | 0:55:05 | |
'given proper treatment, | 0:55:05 | 0:55:06 | |
'more than half the 96 who died | 0:55:06 | 0:55:08 | |
'might have had a chance of survival.' | 0:55:08 | 0:55:11 | |
My son and 95 innocent Liverpool fans did not die in an accident, | 0:55:11 | 0:55:17 | |
they were unlawfully killed at the least. | 0:55:17 | 0:55:20 | |
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE | 0:55:20 | 0:55:22 | |
'In December, the accidental death verdicts were overturned | 0:55:25 | 0:55:29 | |
'and the High Court ordered a new inquest. | 0:55:29 | 0:55:31 | |
'The original coroner Stefan Popper told Panorama it was not | 0:55:33 | 0:55:38 | |
'appropriate for him to comment. | 0:55:38 | 0:55:39 | |
'Anne Williams was now gravely ill.' | 0:55:42 | 0:55:45 | |
-You might not see the end of this now. -No. | 0:55:45 | 0:55:47 | |
-But you have won your victory. -That's what I thought. | 0:55:49 | 0:55:52 | |
My son did not die in an accident | 0:55:54 | 0:55:56 | |
and neither did 95 with him. | 0:55:56 | 0:55:58 | |
So at least we have got rid of that. | 0:55:59 | 0:56:02 | |
Cos the accidental death verdicts used to really, really upset me | 0:56:02 | 0:56:06 | |
cos it let them off the hook, didn't it? | 0:56:06 | 0:56:08 | |
'Anne Williams died last month.' | 0:56:10 | 0:56:12 | |
'Yorkshire Ambulance Service NHS Trust | 0:56:23 | 0:56:26 | |
'wouldn't be interviewed by Panorama. | 0:56:26 | 0:56:28 | |
'They say they will cooperate with any new legal inquiries.' | 0:56:28 | 0:56:32 | |
My involvement in Hillsborough has always been a torture. | 0:56:34 | 0:56:37 | |
It has been life changing and | 0:56:37 | 0:56:39 | |
'I always find these interviews difficult. | 0:56:39 | 0:56:42 | |
'I feel they are necessary so we get the true story out.' | 0:56:42 | 0:56:46 | |
And I'm unshakeable on that. | 0:56:46 | 0:56:47 | |
I know what the situation was, | 0:56:47 | 0:56:49 | |
how we dealt with this badly. | 0:56:49 | 0:56:51 | |
'There are two new investigations into Hillsborough. | 0:56:56 | 0:56:59 | |
'One into who might have caused the disaster, | 0:56:59 | 0:57:02 | |
'the other into allegations of a police cover-up. | 0:57:02 | 0:57:05 | |
'Both South Yorkshire and West Midlands Police say | 0:57:05 | 0:57:08 | |
'they will cooperate with these inquiries.' | 0:57:08 | 0:57:10 | |
'The match commander David Duckenfield declined to be | 0:57:15 | 0:57:18 | |
'interviewed by Panorama while the new investigations were going on. | 0:57:18 | 0:57:24 | |
'Sir Norman Bettison became chief constable of Merseyside | 0:57:24 | 0:57:27 | |
'and then of West Yorkshire. | 0:57:27 | 0:57:29 | |
'He resigned last year, saying the Hillsborough investigation | 0:57:29 | 0:57:33 | |
'had become a distraction. | 0:57:33 | 0:57:35 | |
'He declined to be interviewed. | 0:57:35 | 0:57:37 | |
'For the Hillsborough families, it is not over yet.' | 0:57:40 | 0:57:44 | |
People don't want to be fighting this cause any more, | 0:57:44 | 0:57:46 | |
nearly 24 years later. It's taken its toll on a lot of families. | 0:57:46 | 0:57:51 | |
A lot of people aren't here any more to see it through to the end. | 0:57:51 | 0:57:55 | |
If people are proved ultimately responsible, | 0:57:57 | 0:58:00 | |
I'd like to see them charged with it. | 0:58:00 | 0:58:03 | |
Cos everyone else in the country is subject to the law | 0:58:03 | 0:58:06 | |
and they should be as well. | 0:58:06 | 0:58:08 | |
-Do you think that's going to happen? -No. | 0:58:08 | 0:58:11 | |
'Hillsborough was an avoidable disaster. | 0:58:13 | 0:58:16 | |
'What happened here was obvious. | 0:58:17 | 0:58:19 | |
'But some of our most important institutions - the police, | 0:58:21 | 0:58:24 | |
'the judiciary and government - allowed it to be covered up. | 0:58:24 | 0:58:28 | |
'That's the truth about Hillsborough - | 0:58:30 | 0:58:32 | |
'a dark truth buried for a generation.' | 0:58:32 | 0:58:35 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:58:44 | 0:58:47 |