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Tonight, I'm undercover in one of our crisis-hit prisons. | 0:00:02 | 0:00:06 | |
I see some prisoners out of it on drugs. | 0:00:13 | 0:00:15 | |
Prison officers say they've lost control... | 0:00:21 | 0:00:24 | |
..that inmates run the jail. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:30 | |
The threat of violence is constant. | 0:00:36 | 0:00:38 | |
Security, compromised. | 0:00:43 | 0:00:45 | |
And prison officers struck down, exposed to drug fumes. | 0:00:51 | 0:00:54 | |
I ask what will it take to turn our prisons around? | 0:01:00 | 0:01:03 | |
Her Majesty's Prison, Northumberland | 0:01:28 | 0:01:30 | |
is one of the biggest in the country. | 0:01:30 | 0:01:32 | |
I've just started working here as a prison custody officer. | 0:01:33 | 0:01:37 | |
Hello. NU, this is November two. | 0:01:46 | 0:01:47 | |
Request permission to move from House Block Nine | 0:01:47 | 0:01:49 | |
to House Block Eight, over. | 0:01:49 | 0:01:51 | |
It's my first week and already I'm responsible | 0:01:51 | 0:01:54 | |
for escorting 70 prisoners. | 0:01:54 | 0:01:56 | |
I just follow the crowd of prisoners | 0:02:05 | 0:02:06 | |
and unlock the gates for them. | 0:02:06 | 0:02:08 | |
There are more than 1,300 men behind bars here. | 0:02:19 | 0:02:23 | |
Anything from driving offences to violent crime and drug smuggling. | 0:02:23 | 0:02:26 | |
The demands are endless. | 0:02:28 | 0:02:29 | |
My standard shift is ten hours. | 0:02:39 | 0:02:41 | |
Straight out of training, I do nine days in a row. | 0:02:41 | 0:02:45 | |
It appears chaotic to me. | 0:02:56 | 0:02:58 | |
These two prisoners are drunk at mealtime | 0:02:58 | 0:03:00 | |
and aren't trying to hide it. | 0:03:00 | 0:03:02 | |
Some are high on drugs. | 0:03:10 | 0:03:12 | |
Others are struggling to cope. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:21 | |
It doesn't stop from the moment you get there | 0:03:38 | 0:03:40 | |
to the moment you leave. | 0:03:40 | 0:03:42 | |
You can't work five days or six days solid there. | 0:03:42 | 0:03:48 | |
It... | 0:03:48 | 0:03:49 | |
It ruins you. You don't... | 0:03:49 | 0:03:50 | |
You're not a person any more, you just exist. | 0:03:50 | 0:03:53 | |
Three years ago, the prison was privatised. | 0:03:58 | 0:04:01 | |
French company Sodexo won the 15-year contract, | 0:04:01 | 0:04:05 | |
promising the Government it could save £130 million. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:08 | |
When the initial shock of the privatisation came out... | 0:04:10 | 0:04:15 | |
the staff were shocked that it had happened | 0:04:15 | 0:04:17 | |
but then we thought, well, maybe... | 0:04:17 | 0:04:19 | |
it could be a good thing. | 0:04:19 | 0:04:22 | |
We might see a big change. | 0:04:22 | 0:04:23 | |
You train as part of a team, so you and the dog are a team. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:27 | |
Jim Reid was a dog handler and prison officer | 0:04:27 | 0:04:29 | |
with more than 20 years' experience. | 0:04:29 | 0:04:31 | |
His optimism didn't last long. | 0:04:33 | 0:04:34 | |
They got rid of 96 uniform staff, over 200 in total. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:39 | |
I myself was part of a dog team. | 0:04:41 | 0:04:43 | |
Erm, and we were told, "You're gone." | 0:04:43 | 0:04:46 | |
Since 2011, around half a billion pounds has been taken | 0:04:49 | 0:04:53 | |
from the prison budget in England and Wales. | 0:04:53 | 0:04:55 | |
As the prisoner population was rising, | 0:04:57 | 0:04:59 | |
more than 6,000 officers were lost. | 0:04:59 | 0:05:01 | |
Jim Reid took redundancy | 0:05:04 | 0:05:06 | |
but colleagues who stayed at Northumberland | 0:05:06 | 0:05:08 | |
say they're overwhelmed. | 0:05:08 | 0:05:09 | |
I've seen experienced staff crying in the main street. | 0:05:10 | 0:05:15 | |
And they've said, "I cannae take it, I cannae take it any more." | 0:05:15 | 0:05:18 | |
It's horrendous up there for staff. | 0:05:18 | 0:05:20 | |
When they open doors, they're pulling knives on them, fights, | 0:05:20 | 0:05:23 | |
and the drugs, so there's a lot to deal with, | 0:05:23 | 0:05:27 | |
even for experienced staff. | 0:05:27 | 0:05:28 | |
Last year, Sodexo took on 23 new officers. | 0:05:31 | 0:05:34 | |
I'm one of them. | 0:05:34 | 0:05:35 | |
During our nine-week training course, we were told | 0:05:37 | 0:05:40 | |
that we'd been taken on to help turn the prison around. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:44 | |
It's a big ask. | 0:05:44 | 0:05:45 | |
Not all of the smoke is from cigarettes. | 0:05:55 | 0:05:57 | |
In the evenings, prisoners usually get a couple of hours to socialise | 0:06:05 | 0:06:08 | |
before they're locked in their cells. | 0:06:08 | 0:06:11 | |
Sodexo says we should always be on the lookout for drugs, | 0:06:20 | 0:06:23 | |
weapons and mobile phones. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:25 | |
But it's not that easy. | 0:06:26 | 0:06:28 | |
Even with the new staff like me, | 0:06:29 | 0:06:32 | |
I'm the only officer on this landing right now. | 0:06:32 | 0:06:35 | |
And there's nearly 30 of them. | 0:06:35 | 0:06:36 | |
We're supposed to be in charge. | 0:06:49 | 0:06:51 | |
I can't safely challenge them when I'm by myself. | 0:06:51 | 0:06:54 | |
And the prisoners know that. | 0:06:54 | 0:06:55 | |
The prisoner lying on the floor has smoked a drug called Spice. | 0:07:08 | 0:07:11 | |
His forearm's moving around uncontrollably. | 0:07:24 | 0:07:29 | |
His eyes completely vacant, doesn't know what he's seeing | 0:07:29 | 0:07:32 | |
and face completely expressionless. | 0:07:32 | 0:07:35 | |
Spice is now one of the most popular drugs in prison. | 0:07:39 | 0:07:43 | |
It's a cheap, chemical alternative to cannabis - | 0:07:43 | 0:07:46 | |
only many times stronger. | 0:07:46 | 0:07:47 | |
Spice is a potent, terrible drug. | 0:07:49 | 0:07:52 | |
Hallucinating, becoming violent. | 0:07:52 | 0:07:55 | |
They're walking around zombiefied. | 0:07:55 | 0:07:58 | |
Off their face, completely off their face. | 0:07:58 | 0:08:01 | |
The effects of the drug start to wear off. | 0:08:03 | 0:08:06 | |
The prison nurse arrives and an ambulance is on its way. | 0:08:15 | 0:08:18 | |
Officers tell me they don't always call the nurse | 0:08:35 | 0:08:38 | |
when prisoners react badly to Spice. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:40 | |
It happens too frequently. | 0:08:41 | 0:08:43 | |
It's not just here. | 0:08:46 | 0:08:48 | |
Prisoners regularly film themselves on mobile phones smoking Spice. | 0:08:48 | 0:08:52 | |
Spice in the jail house. | 0:08:53 | 0:08:55 | |
58 prison deaths in England and Wales have been linked to the drug. | 0:08:58 | 0:09:02 | |
He's gone. He's gone. | 0:09:03 | 0:09:05 | |
HMP Northumberland is a training prison. | 0:09:11 | 0:09:13 | |
It holds medium to low-security prisoners in its 15 house blocks. | 0:09:15 | 0:09:19 | |
They're supposed to study or work, | 0:09:22 | 0:09:24 | |
preparing for life on the outside. | 0:09:24 | 0:09:26 | |
Nearly a quarter of new prisoners in England | 0:09:35 | 0:09:38 | |
can't read or write to the level expected of an 11-year old. | 0:09:38 | 0:09:41 | |
The education and training they receive here | 0:09:42 | 0:09:45 | |
is provided by outside contractors. | 0:09:45 | 0:09:47 | |
Teachers try their best. | 0:09:48 | 0:09:51 | |
But some of what I see is not impressive. | 0:09:51 | 0:09:54 | |
This is an employability skills class. | 0:09:54 | 0:09:56 | |
I see three prisoners colouring in a picture | 0:09:57 | 0:09:59 | |
of the children's cartoon character Peppa Pig. | 0:09:59 | 0:10:02 | |
Prisoners colouring in Peppa Pig | 0:10:03 | 0:10:06 | |
or anything similar is inexcusable. | 0:10:06 | 0:10:09 | |
Sir Martin, who used to run the Prison Service, | 0:10:09 | 0:10:12 | |
hasn't seen any of my secret footage. | 0:10:12 | 0:10:15 | |
He's now advising the Government. | 0:10:15 | 0:10:16 | |
The art of reducing reoffending is not complicated. | 0:10:17 | 0:10:21 | |
If you get somebody employable and get them into a job, | 0:10:21 | 0:10:25 | |
the probability of them not going back to serious crime | 0:10:25 | 0:10:28 | |
is hugely increased. | 0:10:28 | 0:10:30 | |
These classes are provided by a company called Novus. | 0:10:32 | 0:10:36 | |
They told us they've investigated my concerns | 0:10:36 | 0:10:38 | |
and sent a report to the Government. | 0:10:38 | 0:10:40 | |
Prisons are supposed to be among the most secure institutions | 0:10:45 | 0:10:48 | |
in the country. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:50 | |
But small amounts of drugs have always come in during prison visits. | 0:10:50 | 0:10:54 | |
This prisoner has tried to swallow packages of heroin | 0:11:10 | 0:11:13 | |
passed to him by a visitor. | 0:11:13 | 0:11:14 | |
I find this package of drugs hidden in the sock of another | 0:11:18 | 0:11:21 | |
and hand it in. | 0:11:21 | 0:11:22 | |
But there's far more Spice in the prison | 0:11:30 | 0:11:32 | |
than can ever get in during visits. | 0:11:32 | 0:11:34 | |
On the very same day I started work at HMP Northumberland, | 0:11:40 | 0:11:44 | |
staff made a massive find. | 0:11:44 | 0:11:46 | |
Just on one house block, they found 2.5 kilos of Spice. | 0:11:47 | 0:11:52 | |
It was laid out over a table. | 0:11:52 | 0:11:54 | |
It would have filled up two backpacks' worth. | 0:11:54 | 0:11:59 | |
It's incredible. | 0:11:59 | 0:12:00 | |
It has a prison value of a quarter of a million pounds, | 0:12:01 | 0:12:05 | |
much more than it would be worth on the outside. | 0:12:05 | 0:12:08 | |
Some of the Spice was barely hidden in a prisoner's wardrobe. | 0:12:10 | 0:12:13 | |
There could have been more. | 0:12:15 | 0:12:17 | |
Officers don't know how much had already been sold. | 0:12:17 | 0:12:19 | |
How they've been allowed to have that quantity of drugs in a cell, | 0:12:21 | 0:12:24 | |
is unbelievable. | 0:12:24 | 0:12:25 | |
It's a major breach of security. | 0:12:25 | 0:12:27 | |
All the officers I've spoken to | 0:12:28 | 0:12:30 | |
think every inch of the block should have been searched. | 0:12:30 | 0:12:33 | |
They say, in the past, it would have been. | 0:12:34 | 0:12:36 | |
Officers tell me they think there was no lock down | 0:12:52 | 0:12:54 | |
because it would have cost Sodexo money. | 0:12:54 | 0:12:56 | |
They say if they're deployed to a search, | 0:12:58 | 0:13:00 | |
they can't also get prisoners to education, work and training. | 0:13:00 | 0:13:05 | |
And Sodexo gets paid partly based on how many inmates attend. | 0:13:05 | 0:13:08 | |
This prisoner burgled to fund his cocaine habit. | 0:13:36 | 0:13:38 | |
On the inside he's still on drugs. | 0:13:40 | 0:13:43 | |
Now it's Spice. | 0:13:43 | 0:13:44 | |
Prison isn't helping him change his ways. | 0:13:48 | 0:13:50 | |
HMP Northumberland's perimeter fence. | 0:14:07 | 0:14:09 | |
Jim Reid used to regularly patrol inside the fence with a dog, | 0:14:11 | 0:14:14 | |
intercepting drugs which had been thrown over. | 0:14:14 | 0:14:17 | |
Sodexo scrapped all that | 0:14:19 | 0:14:21 | |
and told him to drive around outside the perimeter on his own. | 0:14:21 | 0:14:24 | |
It was supposed to deter people from throwing items over the fence. | 0:14:27 | 0:14:31 | |
It was a joke. | 0:14:31 | 0:14:33 | |
Every member of staff knew security was a joke. | 0:14:33 | 0:14:35 | |
On patrol one afternoon, Jim ran into trouble. | 0:14:37 | 0:14:40 | |
So I was driving up, coming up the road here. | 0:14:40 | 0:14:43 | |
We had intelligence there was going to be a package dropped off. | 0:14:43 | 0:14:48 | |
One or two bodies, I don't know, were hiding behind this hedge. | 0:14:48 | 0:14:51 | |
And as I came up this way, they threw a boulder or brick | 0:14:51 | 0:14:56 | |
or whatever they threw. It just went bang. | 0:14:56 | 0:14:58 | |
It was a huge bang and it shattered the windscreen. | 0:14:58 | 0:15:03 | |
I veered off to the right and ended up in this ditch over here. | 0:15:03 | 0:15:06 | |
Jim escaped serious injury. | 0:15:07 | 0:15:09 | |
Other staff doing the same job have been threatened or attacked too. | 0:15:09 | 0:15:13 | |
Sodexo told us they work closely with the police, | 0:15:15 | 0:15:17 | |
"to deliver significant successes in the constant battle to disrupt | 0:15:17 | 0:15:21 | |
"drug supply and illegal activity." | 0:15:21 | 0:15:23 | |
There used to be regular, dedicated search teams | 0:15:29 | 0:15:32 | |
across HMP Northumberland. | 0:15:32 | 0:15:34 | |
Officers have told us now there are none. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:36 | |
This officer is supposed to be thoroughly checking the locks, | 0:15:41 | 0:15:44 | |
bolts and bars in these cells. | 0:15:44 | 0:15:46 | |
He does three cells in just 20 seconds. | 0:15:51 | 0:15:53 | |
This prisoner is in for burglary. | 0:16:15 | 0:16:17 | |
We're calling him John. | 0:16:17 | 0:16:19 | |
He seems disorientated and scared. | 0:16:19 | 0:16:21 | |
He's being kept in his cell until the Spice wears off. | 0:16:25 | 0:16:28 | |
HE BABBLES | 0:16:28 | 0:16:30 | |
As he starts to come round, | 0:16:49 | 0:16:51 | |
I can make out what he's been trying to tell me. | 0:16:51 | 0:16:53 | |
Later I find out why. | 0:17:03 | 0:17:05 | |
He says he's being bullied. | 0:17:05 | 0:17:06 | |
When I see him again, he's totally out of it on Spice. | 0:17:27 | 0:17:31 | |
Other inmates think it's hilarious. | 0:17:31 | 0:17:33 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:17:35 | 0:17:38 | |
I think they're "spiking" him, | 0:17:38 | 0:17:39 | |
giving him cigarettes laced with Spice. | 0:17:39 | 0:17:42 | |
Straight away, throws up on his bed, over his pillow... | 0:17:52 | 0:17:57 | |
..and rolls straight over on his face into it. | 0:17:58 | 0:18:02 | |
He's got no idea that there's sick everywhere. | 0:18:05 | 0:18:07 | |
He's got no idea he's got his face in it. | 0:18:07 | 0:18:09 | |
He's got no idea he's in a prison. | 0:18:09 | 0:18:11 | |
He's just not functioning at all. | 0:18:12 | 0:18:14 | |
I told a more experienced officer that he's being bullied. | 0:18:22 | 0:18:25 | |
It seems to me John's vulnerable | 0:18:27 | 0:18:29 | |
and being failed by the prison system. | 0:18:29 | 0:18:31 | |
Right across the Prison Service, | 0:18:32 | 0:18:34 | |
the plain truth is that there are too few prison officers. | 0:18:34 | 0:18:38 | |
The great danger is some officers | 0:18:38 | 0:18:40 | |
have retreated from interaction with prisoners, | 0:18:40 | 0:18:44 | |
to the ends of wings where they are perhaps observing prisoners. | 0:18:44 | 0:18:48 | |
That's very, very dangerous. | 0:18:48 | 0:18:49 | |
You have to have good order, | 0:18:49 | 0:18:50 | |
you have to have a place which is safe and secure. | 0:18:50 | 0:18:53 | |
ALARM BLARES | 0:18:55 | 0:18:57 | |
There aren't enough officers to deal with the violence here either. | 0:18:59 | 0:19:02 | |
A fight's broken out. | 0:19:06 | 0:19:08 | |
By the time officers get there, it's all over. | 0:19:08 | 0:19:10 | |
So they check the CCTV. | 0:19:13 | 0:19:15 | |
-Ooh! Oh... -BLEEP. | 0:19:16 | 0:19:19 | |
I see one prisoner stomping on another. | 0:19:21 | 0:19:23 | |
I see the result of an attack on another prisoner. | 0:19:34 | 0:19:37 | |
And there are weapons in this prison. | 0:19:54 | 0:19:56 | |
This knife was photographed inside, I'm told, in the last few weeks. | 0:19:57 | 0:20:01 | |
Last year, | 0:20:04 | 0:20:05 | |
305 ambulances were called to the prison in just seven months. | 0:20:05 | 0:20:09 | |
That's nine a week. | 0:20:09 | 0:20:10 | |
And it's not a safe environment for officers, either. | 0:20:25 | 0:20:29 | |
35 were attacked at HMP Northumberland in 2015. | 0:20:29 | 0:20:33 | |
I'm told about a recent assault. | 0:20:35 | 0:20:37 | |
After this prisoner was told his TV would be confiscated | 0:20:57 | 0:21:00 | |
for beating up another inmate, | 0:21:00 | 0:21:01 | |
he refuses to go back in his cell. | 0:21:01 | 0:21:03 | |
Then he threatens me. | 0:21:05 | 0:21:06 | |
Others officers tell me they don't confront prisoners, | 0:21:21 | 0:21:23 | |
because they're not confident backup will arrive to protect them | 0:21:23 | 0:21:26 | |
if they're attacked. | 0:21:26 | 0:21:27 | |
There were 6,430 assaults on prison staff | 0:21:46 | 0:21:49 | |
in England and Wales last year. | 0:21:49 | 0:21:52 | |
That's 17 a day - the highest ever recorded. | 0:21:52 | 0:21:54 | |
Prison officers staged a series of walk-outs. | 0:21:59 | 0:22:02 | |
They said they didn't feel safe and had lost confidence. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:05 | |
At HMP Northumberland, officers feel their authority has gone too. | 0:22:07 | 0:22:11 | |
MUSIC PLAYING | 0:22:26 | 0:22:28 | |
Yes! | 0:22:28 | 0:22:29 | |
Just over a year ago, prisoners at HMP Northumberland | 0:22:31 | 0:22:34 | |
filmed themselves having a party and apparently taking drugs. | 0:22:34 | 0:22:37 | |
THEY LAUGH | 0:22:42 | 0:22:44 | |
The party happened here on House Block Six. | 0:22:47 | 0:22:49 | |
While I was there, staff made an astonishing find. | 0:22:51 | 0:22:54 | |
Officers think prisoners were wearing the black clothing | 0:23:03 | 0:23:06 | |
to sneak out at night and avoid being seen by CCTV cameras. | 0:23:06 | 0:23:09 | |
Tin snips - wire-cutting tools. | 0:23:18 | 0:23:21 | |
Staff soon find out what they've been used for. | 0:23:21 | 0:23:23 | |
The hole in an internal security fence | 0:23:34 | 0:23:37 | |
meant prisoners could collect drug deliveries | 0:23:37 | 0:23:38 | |
thrown over the outer perimeter. | 0:23:38 | 0:23:40 | |
That's a major breach of security. | 0:23:42 | 0:23:45 | |
Any tampering with any fencing | 0:23:45 | 0:23:48 | |
should have been picked up earlier. | 0:23:48 | 0:23:50 | |
It should have been inspected. | 0:23:50 | 0:23:51 | |
But how were they able to sneak out of their block in the first place? | 0:23:53 | 0:23:56 | |
House Block Six is supposed to be for well-behaved inmates | 0:23:57 | 0:24:00 | |
about to transfer to open prisons. | 0:24:00 | 0:24:02 | |
They aren't locked in their cells at night. | 0:24:03 | 0:24:05 | |
Doors to the outside are supposed to be alarmed. | 0:24:06 | 0:24:09 | |
I'm sent to check them after the discovery of the wire cutting tools | 0:24:09 | 0:24:13 | |
and make my own astonishing find. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:15 | |
An alarm should go off. | 0:24:17 | 0:24:18 | |
It doesn't. | 0:24:20 | 0:24:21 | |
I was told problems with the alarms were reported three weeks earlier. | 0:24:37 | 0:24:40 | |
I get a chance to speak to the governor, Tony Simpson. | 0:24:51 | 0:24:54 | |
Even he admits he's let the wrong sort of prisoners | 0:24:54 | 0:24:56 | |
onto the block. | 0:24:56 | 0:24:57 | |
The governor also told me House Block Six - a pre-fab building - | 0:25:24 | 0:25:27 | |
is ten years past its sell-by date. | 0:25:27 | 0:25:29 | |
We estimate that if Sodexo closed it, with the loss of 40 beds, | 0:25:31 | 0:25:35 | |
they would lose £16,000 per week. | 0:25:35 | 0:25:37 | |
Sodexo say they've invested at least £3 million | 0:25:40 | 0:25:44 | |
in safety and security | 0:25:44 | 0:25:45 | |
which are their top priority, | 0:25:45 | 0:25:47 | |
and recruited an additional 37 staff. | 0:25:47 | 0:25:50 | |
They say, "After viewing the programme, we will of course | 0:25:51 | 0:25:54 | |
"investigate where necessary and take appropriate action." | 0:25:54 | 0:25:57 | |
The Government say they're determined to make our prisons | 0:26:01 | 0:26:03 | |
places of safety and reform and have promised to spend an extra | 0:26:03 | 0:26:07 | |
£100 million a year on 2,500 new officers in England and Wales. | 0:26:07 | 0:26:12 | |
The staff already there whose confidence has been eroded, | 0:26:16 | 0:26:20 | |
we need to concentrate on recovering their confidence. | 0:26:20 | 0:26:23 | |
I think some of that will come as they see additional colleagues | 0:26:23 | 0:26:26 | |
arriving to work alongside them. | 0:26:26 | 0:26:28 | |
I'm not being glib, it will take some time. | 0:26:28 | 0:26:31 | |
Back at HMP Northumberland, despite my new intake, | 0:26:34 | 0:26:37 | |
it still feels chaotic. | 0:26:37 | 0:26:38 | |
I'm becoming used to the stress and the threat of violence. | 0:26:41 | 0:26:44 | |
But I'm not prepared for what I see next. | 0:26:44 | 0:26:46 | |
It's an officer he's talking about. | 0:26:59 | 0:27:02 | |
There have been reports officers' health is being put at risk | 0:27:02 | 0:27:05 | |
by Spice smoke in prison. | 0:27:05 | 0:27:06 | |
Until now, there's been little evidence. | 0:27:07 | 0:27:09 | |
It's not the first time officers here have been felled | 0:27:25 | 0:27:28 | |
by inhaling Spice smoke. | 0:27:28 | 0:27:30 | |
I've been told at least three members of staff have also | 0:27:30 | 0:27:33 | |
needed hospital treatment in the last seven months. | 0:27:33 | 0:27:36 | |
He's taken to hospital and later recovers. | 0:27:53 | 0:27:55 | |
I spent two months undercover at HMP Northumberland. | 0:28:00 | 0:28:03 | |
I saw prison officers unable to maintain control, | 0:28:04 | 0:28:08 | |
much less help rehabilitate prisoners. | 0:28:08 | 0:28:10 | |
If we take people and lock them up | 0:28:12 | 0:28:14 | |
and don't use that period when they are literally captive, | 0:28:14 | 0:28:18 | |
to try to do something which makes it less likely | 0:28:18 | 0:28:21 | |
that they'll go and burgle someone's house when they get out, | 0:28:21 | 0:28:24 | |
then we're just losing a golden opportunity. | 0:28:24 | 0:28:26 | |
Few of us will experience life inside. | 0:28:29 | 0:28:32 | |
But all of us have a stake | 0:28:32 | 0:28:33 | |
in stopping prisoners returning to crime. | 0:28:33 | 0:28:35 |